The Vault Unlocked - Why Preparation Is the Most Undervalued Skill in Sales Negotiation (And How to Use It)

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Most deals don't die because the price was wrong. They die because someone walked into the room unprepared, assumed they understood what the other side wanted, and spent the entire negotiation reacting instead of leading. That is not a price problem. That is a systems problem. Walker Thrash, from Vertikal Collaborative, has structured public-private real estate deals across multiple states, navigated city councils, state agencies, and private capital partners simultaneously, and built a firm that puts its own money on the line in nearly every project it touches. He does not negotiate from theory. He negotiates from skin in the game. In this conversation, Walker breaks down exactly how the most sophisticated real estate operators approach high-stakes negotiation from the first meeting to close. The framework is not complicated. It is just rarely executed. Preparation unlocks authority. Authority unlocks questions. Questions surface the real deal. And the real deal is almost never about price. They talk through the mechanics of how preparation shifts power in any room, why the person asking the most questions holds the most leverage, how to identify the true authority at the table and speak directly to it, and why making your math objective eliminates the tension that kills deals before they start. They also get into the counterintuitive move that separates good negotiators from great ones: asking the other side to help you solve the problem. When the opposing party becomes a thought partner, the deal moves faster and closes tighter. This episode is for founders, operators, developers, and executives who negotiate at a level where the stakes are real and the margin for error is not. If you are still treating negotiation as a conversation about price, you are starting from the wrong place. Real estate deal-making, public-private development, commercial negotiation strategy, and high-stakes business leadership all depend on the same foundation: knowing what the other side actually needs before you say a word about what you want. That principle applies whether the deal is a $5M land acquisition or a $500M mixed-use development. Topics covered: Why preparation is the most undervalued skill in real estate negotiation How asking questions outperforms presenting solutions Identifying and speaking from authority in any negotiation room Why price is rarely the real issue in a failed deal Making math objective to remove tension and accelerate close The "thought partner" move that gets deals off the ground faster What kills deals before they ever reach the table Looking to dive deeper into these conversations and connect with our host and guest? Follow Walker:   LinkedIn Website Buy Walker's book Follow Kayvon: Instagram Facebook LinkedIn TikTok     Want to go deeper with Kayvon? Subscribe to the newsletter Book a discovery call Get your Revenue Engine Scorecard™️ Hire the right salespeople

Most people walk into a negotiation thinking the goal is to win. They prep their numbers, they sharpen their pitch, and they walk in ready to take. That is exactly why they leave the table empty. Today's guest has done what most operators only talk about. Walker Thrash has closed public, private real estate deals that others could not figure out on their own. He doesn't just build buildings. He solves problems by mastering the one thing every night. negotiator avoids, self-interest. Not yours, everyone's. On this episode, Walker breaks down how

the best deals are never about price, why the most dangerous assumption you can make is walking in thinking you already know what the other side wants and how the operators who close the biggest rooms are the ones who learn to look in the mirror first. Let's unlock it. We're live. Today we got Walker Thrash, the real estate negotiator, the tycoon. I'm happy to have you on the show. I'm excited to deep dive into obviously your experience in real estate, but really unlocking, when we talk about unlocking the vault, unlocking those things that must happen or that must be implemented or employed when it comes to real estate deals and real estate

negotiation. Walker, welcome to the show. Happy to be here. Thanks, Kvon. Yes, it'll be fun. Just so the audience knows a little bit more about you. Why don't you explain a little bit, tell us a little bit of who you are and how we got to, you know, how you got into this role?

Sure. So my company is called Vertical, spelled with a K. But we are really, we're a public, private partnering firm. So our emphasis is all real estate transactions, real estate development. But we really, you know, we don't just build buildings. Our intention when we walk into the room is really trying to solve either a city or at the state level, solve a development problem. We specialize in, I would say if you boil it down, ultimately, we try to place risk on the correct sides of the table. And then what sets us apart a little bit from a lot of people that, you know, kind of quote unquote consult in the public-private realm is in almost every problem.

project. We actually invest all or most of the private capital that goes into the private side of the development. Okay. And how did you tell us to like the kind of the history? Like how did you get to this point? Because I don't think you just, you know, wake up and to start, you know, investing and becoming the tycoon of negotiation when it comes to real estate. So tell us a little bit of the history here. No, my family, my grandfather was involved in both grandfathers in the lumber business. My father very involved in real estate, mainly in apartments. So I kind of grew up around real estate, right? Real estate deals talking through that for years, spent time in my family business with my father and younger brother, but really started to have somewhat of a passion for

hotel development, hospitality. I ended up forming a small brand. It was part of the group that's formed a small hotel brand that's in six or seven states at this point. And what you learn in putting together hospitality projects, because these hotels were full service, had restaurants in the bottom, is that financially a lot of hotels have some kind of public incentive to make them work. So somewhat cut my teeth, putting hotel deals together, learning the public, private nuances, where those buckets of capital were. And really, it's more importantly, learning how to navigate the public side of negotiating real estate deals. Interesting.

Okay, so the navigation on the public side, tell me a little bit more about that. Well, and I think this is true in private deals as well, but it's highlighted when you're dealing with the public realm because to simplify, it's no one at the table is their personal checking account on. right when you're in a public arrangement these are hired people either it's city or elected right city manager mayor um city staff state staff they're trying to put a deal together their number one objective is to execute and deliver on whatever promise they've made so okay what you don't see in the forefront or what i would say is really the the tripping hazard in a deal is to make it all

about dollars and cents and price because that's just a commodity in the deal. It's really more about execution, delivering on vision, aligning the party's interest and understanding. And the more deals you do in the public-private realm, the more you somewhat kind of understand the intentions and motivations of the different factions or parties around the table. Well, it's interesting you say that because, you know, we're talking about, I know we're talking about big, you know, real estate deals, but that just goes to everything even to the smallest little deal. Like people will buy not because the price is wrong or the too high. It's because they don't see the value. And what you got to just indirectly said there is if you can execute their vision, execute the speed, the time.

So if they see the value in what you're doing, the price is never an issue. Yeah, and prices, I don't want to pretend that price isn't important, right? It's real estate. It is, it's going to be the capital that trades hands, but it's almost never the most important thing in the negotiation. Like you said, it is value in money are not equal. There's a lot of different value that can be traded around the table. That's nothing to do with dollars. But I would even put it in the sense of if you just,

kind of set aside. And you may not, you may not think this way. I do. I'm a, I'm a believer. Everyone is self-interested, myself included. Yeah, absolutely. I don't, that's not a negative thing. I say this all the time. I mean, that feels like a negative comment. The reality is we're all just trying to make it.

We're taking care of our families. We're trying to reach the next step, next run on the ladder, whatever that is. If you can walk into the room and understand that everybody around the table is the same is you. They have their own self-interest and your objective at some levels to deliver their interest in a way that creates the value you need in the deal. It's a better starting point. To pretend like you're the only one who really needs to have your interest met is, again, that's just a stumbling block. We all need to get past quickly. I couldn't agree more. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't done a lot of like, you know, studying of negotiation and all that.

The one thing I remember, an old mentor said, the best negotiation is when both people's are, like, are leaving, like, almost like not like just satisfied. They're not happy. They're not ecstatic. They're almost, they're almost like he made it seem like it was almost like they're leaving okay. Because if you're leaving, he said, if you're leaving happy, that means they're leaving upset and that's not a good negotiation. If you're leaving upset, they're leaving happy. That's not a negotiation. A good negotiation is when both parties can leave on, you know, with a with a neutral kind of feeling.

And I always thought about that. I would agree with that. I would agree with that. And that's a really good negotiation. And oftentimes that's the best it's going to be. If you add one thing on top of it, a great negotiation is when the parties leave the table. And they feel like they created more value than they thought coming in. And those are the best deals you'll ever do.

That I love. that. I love what you just said there. The best negotiations are when not one, when both parties provide more value than they thought than they thought they were getting into. Tell me about that. Tell me how they're a start. I want to unpack that because I think that's so important because that can be translated through so many different things in life. It's how, you know, the whole camps, you know, the campsite kind of theory, right? Leave the campsite better than when you last found it. It's the same thing here to me is like leave the negotiation better off, more value, more excitement, more output than what everyone thought it was.

So tell me a little bit, how does, how do you get to that place in negotiation? How do you find that place when in negotiation to look for those things of value? Well, what I'd say it's over time you do gain experience. You learn the questions to ask, right? But just in starting off, if you're fresh and you say, hey, what's just a a way to change the mindset. And I've been guilty of this as much as anybody is walking into the meeting and assuming I understand what everybody's interest are and I've got a great idea and we're all going

to agree on it. And if you can have turned that 180, it's, hey, instead of talking about the deal, here's my pro forma or whatever that is, opening up a conversation, asking questions, assuming you have no idea what their interests are when you open the room, you'll end up teasing out things that you didn't think were there. And then, you know, and everybody's in such a hurry. It's like, let's get it all done in meeting one. Sometimes meeting one really is just uncovering, turning over rocks, trying to get information you can take home and think about. But in that question asking, and if it's genuine, there is an appreciation around the table. You'll see that, you know,

those questions will come back to you. But the other party really sees and appreciates the fact that, hey, you're trying to understand what they need and want. That is, that's just a much more open dialogue. Sounds like sales 101 to me. Ask the questions first before you speak. Learn. Like really try diagnosed.

Like try to like figure out what is going on. What do they need? What's, you know, what does success look like? All of the things before you start, uh, projecting, like I say, projecting your own opinions, your own facts, your own BS on the prospect. Yeah. I mean, you know, the more you quote unquote know going in and want to teach everybody in the room, I mean, the worse off you are, right? You're not getting their idea, especially you're going to frustrate whoever in the room has the biggest ego. And those are real like dynamics around a

table. But if you talk about asking questions, this is one thing I have seen a lot. I think we all dismiss the generation beneath us and we should. Because there's some tactics that I believe that they actually really got at bringing to the room that you should take note of. And if you find yourself in the room, let's just say you're not the center of attention. You are not getting the questions. You're not, you know, the guy or the woman in the room that, that's fielding everything and you're trying to figure out how to get that edge and get into the conversation. Here's a novel idea.

Prepare, right? Put together whatever the math is that's going to be on that deal. Or if it's the slide deck, if you have information in your hands, it's amazing. The direction of the questions will start to flow to you. You'll get to ask more questions because of that. And all of a sudden, you're a player in the game, you know, and you may not have been. But if there's a rule beneath all of this, preparing for your negotiation and preparing for your meetings, it may be the most undervalued skill in the game.

Wow. This is super important because you said most undervalued. I mean, to me, maybe I'm too naive or maybe is this who I am, but I'm thinking, how do you go into a negotiation not prepared? How do you go in the no-gation, not having? All the facts. I mean, I just, I'm shocked when I go into meetings. And we're busy.

I'm going from one meeting to the next. The other two or three people, five people in the meeting are doing the same thing, especially now. I mean, you're going from a team's call to a in-person meeting, trying to grab a bite to eat in between. I see it all the time. I mean, everyone in the room walks in and says, all right, what are we talking about today?

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. If you're holding the singular parts of information, the questions do gets you know they start to be directed to you you get to then direct questions back preparation i don't i think part of it is that we like you know we watch too much tv where you know our phones we just we feel like you got to be smart quick and the quips have to flow i mean the best deal makers and the most authentic dealmakers i know they just do a lot of

preparation so preparation i would assume that's a huge opponent i wouldn't that's not surprised me So, you know, I'm just kind of writing these things down as we're going because I'm just thinking about, hey, how can I extract the process of the art of the negotiation? And one of the ones that I'm hearing is for sure, without a doubt, you need preparation. So if we talked about preparation, because now I'm going, you know, thinking about, okay, how deep are we talking about what level of preparation are we saying here? Are we talking about knowing the surface level stuff? Or are we talking about going deep and knowing not just the surface level stuff? about the deals, but knowing about who you're playing, the preparation of the player, what they like, what they eat, where they live, all those things.

Look, I think there's a little bit of both. But I would say this, there's a, I would caution one thing. It's just like I said, I don't, I never think it's a great idea to walk into the meeting with everything figured out. It's also, the preparation is different as you progress through, you know, a longer negotiation. Some of the deals we work on tape a year, right? Yeah. 18 months.

So, you know, you may have several meetings, but let's just, let's put it in, let's drill it down into something tight. So let's say it's a land deal. You may walk into the first meeting. It would be helpful to know all the comp sales in the area, what the zoning is, like some very baseline things. And I know, you know, half of people listen here and thinking, Well, obviously you would.

I can't tell how many meetings I've walked into with that information wasn't there, you know, and something that baseline. But when you, when someone has the information, like I said, they become a critical part of the conversation. They get to ask more questions. I think the powers and the people that get to ask the most questions in the room. Well, they say, right, the loudest one in the room isn't the strongest, due to the weakest, right? And the strongest one in the room is the one that has all the answers is the one who asks the right questions. Yeah, and the quantity of questions matter. You ask enough, you'll ask some good ones.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But it is helpful. I mean, again, at a baseline preparedness critical. But I think once you're prepared, being able to speak from your authority is a skill. And it's something you should contemplate before you walk into a meeting. because give me any business situation, the authority shifts, and you may have a different authority in a different situation. But, you know, if it's real estate related and I walk in,

and let's just, I will do like comparable sales. If there's an appraiser in the room, he or she is the authority on value, right? I then may speak from a different angle in my authority, in the room is historical knowledge of deals that have happened in the area. Right. But understanding and everyone has an authority. I mean, the lowest ranking member around that table knows something at a higher degree or at a better level or in more detail than the rest of the people in the room. You need to think about that before you have, you know, a prolonged, protracted negotiation.

It's important. I'm loving it because like now I'm seeing it right. here is like, okay, preparation to asking the questions. And you can only ask the questions if you have the preparation. Number three here, it's really, it's about no, I put knowing your audience, but really knowing your authority, knowing what the authority is in the room, who's in the room, and where they kind of lay in the authority hierarchy. Absolutely.

Okay. Because even if, if you walk into a room with somebody you admire, like they are just far beyond where you are. are in your, you know, point in life, you know something around that deal at a more greater level than they do. And it made me understanding that authority is born from your preparedness and you understand some of the nuances of the math or the research that's been done. You can create that authority, like I said, by being prepared. And then as you speak from it, you will start to gain a little more traction in the meeting. And like I said,

questions start to flow to you as well. This is sound, it's nuanced, but I've just seen it play out over and over again. And it doesn't matter what your title is. What would you say some of the, some of the reasons or some of the things that stick out to you when you think about all the negotiations you've done that have stopped deals right in their tracks, that like taking deals right off course and. Assuming.

interest and being misaligned with where you're trying to take the deal is a great way to get one off the tracks. By that, I mean, you think it's all about this and it's really about that. And you fail to really take the time to tease that out on the front end. And I mean, we've all been guilty of that where I'm like, here's the carrot. This is going to be the one that really moves the deal forward and you just realize it's never been about what you thought it was day one. Happens a lot. Is that as simple as just asking a negotiation, a conversation and just saying, whether it's the beginning, in the middle or even near the end, it is what does success look like here for

you? Yeah. Okay. It's, that's, that's, that's, I think there's 20 ways you could do that. But in if you were going to figure it out in a maybe a few questions, I'm trying to just arm a listener with, okay, let's keep it tight, simple. What do you need in the deal? And that can be a question. That's also a question you need to ask yourself.

What do you need? What would you love to see happen in this deal, which is different than what you need? And again, I think these are more important asked of the other party than asked of yourself, but you need to understand both sides of that. And then this is the one I think people don't ask themselves enough. What doesn't matter to you at all? And that is that's also an important one. What doesn't matter to you?

Yeah. We assume everything matters. And so often there are deal points that are on the table that they're like, I don't care about that, but you find value in it. And really the nuance there is trading value that's not all, it's not all about dollars and cents. And understanding what's not important to them is one way to start to figure out where you might be able to capture value and then push value back to them for what is important. Well, I like it because by understanding what's not value, about, you know, to them is getting you closer to the one thing that is valuable to them.

And they might be holding their poker cards close to their chest where they're not going to tell you what's the most value to them. So it's an indirect way of getting to there, I would assume. Yeah. And in large deals, I've seen a lot. You talk about what kills deals. I love to talk about things in the negative. Again, I'm a big offense.

have been in my career on this one, holding the cars too close to the vest in a long, drawn out negotiation or a higher stakes negotiation, oftentimes you do it to your own detriment. And one of the ways I've seen that happen is price is such a sensitive subject. Once you get there, it's always, you know, everybody tenses up and says, what are you willing to pay? what is that? When it's not, you know, I'll give you my where I think you can take the tension out of the conversation is to make your math objective. And the way I, you know, the way I've seen to do that in real estate is here's how I'm

underwriting this deal and here's my gap. Right. Let's not make this about a secret that I've got like tucked away in the closet. Here it is. let's figure out if we can solve this problem. And when you bring the other side around to helping you solve the problem that you see, I've just seen that's a much more successful path. It's interesting because people get tense you set around price and I was going to say,

really, is that true? Is that true or not? And then I was thinking it's probably because you read in the books, the person who says the price first loses, right? And you think about that. And it's true. I mean, the sign shows that. But there's a way to, there's a way in the discovery, I believe, to figure out what the price range is.

So that price isn't has to be or needs to be such a shocking thing. Agreed. And that's what I say. I try to make that, I try to make math objective. Now, to do that, it can't be overly greedy. You know, it has to have a sense of reasonableness to the discussion. But it is a subject. It will always be subjective to say, this is what I'm willing to make or this is what I'm willing to pay or this is the gap that I'm willing to close.

That is inarguably a subjective thing, right? Even if you use some metric that's reasonable, you are deciding what that gap is or what you're willing to pay. But when you lay it out on the table, it really becomes an objective criteria of the deal. It's like, okay, well, Walker is willing to do this. when it comes to price. Maybe we can trade some value around that. And that price actually adjust. You have to be malleable there.

Because once you lay that on the table, you need to be confident that you did that correctly because now it's out in the open. But I just find that's, I don't like to hold them close to the vest because I feel like the other party actually will help you solve the problem better if they feel like you're being open with them.

So what are the things you've seen then when deals? have made deals go quicker or, you know, the deals that you can think about were the most smoothest. What were the main factors or the two or three things that have to be in a deal for it to move fast, efficient, effective, and everybody happy. So, all right, there's one rule from the book that, and I believe this into my core, is it good deals become, you know, good ideas become great ideas when you give. them to other people. And for a deal to go smoothly, and really, I feel like to be efficient in the process,

when you can do what we were just talking about, when you can make the math objective, or you can be open in conversation, and you've asked enough questions and you feel like the parties are somewhat in the same stratosphere, asking for help from the other side and having them be a thought partner on how you solve this gap, that is such a when it's when it's employed or deployed directly

and the other side buys into that idea that you were genuinely asking for their help because you're trying to solve for this equation the deals can take off that kind of goes to the he who plans the battle doesn't battle the plan a little bit yeah absolutely

I mean, you know, how many ideas that you had did you think were great? Several, I'm sure. So it was the other person across the table. When all of a sudden, the help becomes part of their idea, how you're getting there, they're creating with you, I just find that the deals flow a lot more smoothly and quickly. I love it. And, and the deals that you're in right now, are you in deals right now? are you in deals right now?

Oh, yeah. I mean, we try to stay active. You're staying active. What deals that are coming up for you right now that we can learn from that are, that are maybe finding, you're finding challenges in and how you're being creative to work around them? Or deals that are smooth that are going so fast, so, like, quickly.

And you can go, that was because of this one thing. Okay. So I give you an example right now. It's a deal. in Colorado, where there's a city, there's city funding, state funding. There's also tax increment financing. It's just a complicated math deal.

But ultimately, it involves a big bus terminal to office buildings and some raw real estate. So it's a mixed use project, a little bit of retail. And there's some users already at play. where the value is getting created from both sides is that as a standalone private deal, it doesn't make sense. And as a standalone public deal, it's not sexy enough to attract the tenants. You know, if you really just want to call it what it is. And so we are creating some development fees at the private level that actually help to develop some of the public infrastructure. Now, the only reason I say that is not because I don't want to get in the weeds on that

because it gets boring. But the reason I say that is we didn't go into that deal, assuming that that would be a structure we were looking at. But what we found in asking questions is that was the biggest issue for the city to be able to get the project off the ground was the timing and be able to put that infrastructure in. And so we just figured out to solve between us. but that would absolutely not be possible if we weren't sharing our information,

if it wasn't an objective conversation about how are we as a team going to put this deal together? Yeah, I love it because it really goes back to what you were saying at the beginning of this conversation. And I just wrote around as again, we know this too, right? What happens with I assume, right? makes an ass out of you and me, right? And it's just so true. So what I'm hearing right now, people are following along like I'm following because I'm always looking for the process.

I'm always looking for the steps is preparation is everything. You want to make sure that you are fully prepared. And you and I sat there and thought, you know, even me, I was like, how are people not prepared? But the reality is,

is people are coming into negotiations or coming into meetings or coming into the fight unprepared. That's a sure way to lose. Let's just say that. I can't guarantee you you'll be successful if you're not prepared. I can guarantee you won't be successful by not being prepared, right? So preparation is what I heard, number one. Are you prepared?

Number two is, are you ready to ask questions? Those who are prepared can ask the right questions. Three, which I love, which is you got to know your authority. Know who's in the room, know who has the power, where that power is, and how you're going to flow the power either through or two or from that authority figure, but don't ever, ever lose the idea of who's in control right now. And then we moved to what I love was the opposite. Instead of asking, what is it you want?

We're looking at the negative almost and going, what is it you don't want? Let's get what you don't want off the table first because that's just going to get it closer to what you do want. And then from there, we have enough, that we can make, which I love is make the math objective. Yeah, that is, that's just a major one. And the bigger the math is, the more major that that becomes. The bigger the math, the bigger, the ability to make an objective and the impact of what that objective math can do will dictate a good negotiation.

And then I love this. And once you've done this, and if you're not, it sounds like at that level, if you're still at a standstill or there's still things you're having a hard time figuring out, you put the other side in the thought leadership as a thought partner. You ask them, what do you think we should do? Which is getting them involved because those who battle the plan don't battle. So those who battle plan the battle don't battle the plan. And then what I've wrote here, Big Star, never once through the preparation, through asking

the questions, through knowing the authority. through knowing when they're telling you what they don't want, when you're making the math objective, probably big time here, and when you're asking for the help, never, ever just assume anything in any negotiation. Yeah, I mean, you've wrapped it up. You could write those rules 10 different times.

You'll have commonalities. Yeah. I mean, well, there it is. If people are listening, I mean, there it is. For me, that's a basic, like, to me, that's basic, basic negotiation. And here's what I'd say. Is it going to make you the richest person in the world?

No, but guess what? That alone, I guarantee you will make negotiations a lot easier, a lot better, a lot more efficient. Absolutely. And look, you do one extra, you get to one extra deal in a year. Makes a major difference. Especially being efficient. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, we're always trying to be efficient with our time. And I mean, I drill back to on the prepared side. You know, next time you walk into a meeting, just think about how many people really are unprepared. It'll shock you. Yeah. No, I'm going to be looking at that. Well, let's think about the meeting this morning where I was in a meeting. Nobody was in negotiation, but nobody was a paper.

It was a colossal time. It was a waste of colossal time. So imagine walking in a negotiation and I'm having that feeling. Like, what a way to stop negotiation. For those of them are listening, they want to learn more. They want to learn where they can get your book, be able to take what I just did and, you know, get the more nuance of it. Where can they go? Yeah, I mean, Amazon, you know, Barnes & Noble, all the online channels,

bookstores in several areas, especially regional in Colorado. But I'm mildly active on LinkedIn. But if there's any of the listeners have a real estate, public-private deal, they can always find us online. It's verticalco.com. And we'll make sure we have those in this note in the show. notes. So again, Walker, thank you so much for being here. If we're going to leave the audience is one thing, one tactic, one last comment statement that sits behind the vault when it comes

to negotiations, when it comes to getting them through the finish line and or getting them back on track, what's something you can leave us with? Look in the mirror, see that you are at your core, self-interested, and then understand, so is the person across the table. So just a good way to start. Look in the mirror and see that you are self-interested and the same person you're speaking to is self-interested. I love it. It's just a fact. Basics, but facts.

Everyone is in it for themselves. Hate to say it, but it's true. We're going to leave it there. Again, thank you. If anyone wants to learn more, they can always come to the show notes and get the links to where they can find you. Thank you so much for being here. Perfect. Thanks, Kavana. Enjoy it.