The Vault Unlocked - Why Your Trade Show ROI Is Suffering and How to Fix Your Sales Team's Booth Strategy

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

If you're spending $50K+ on a trade show and hoping it works… you've already lost. Most booths don't fail because of traffic. They fail because no one knows how to convert it. And the worst part? You won't even realize how much money you left on the floor. This episode breaks the illusion that trade shows are about "showing up." They're not. They're about engineered attention, controlled engagement, and conversion systems that most companies never install. Kayvon sits down with Anders Boulanger, a trade show performance specialist who's worked inside everything from $10K booths to million-dollar builds. What he exposes is simple: Most companies operate like booth buyers. They pay for space, stand around, and wait. The ones who win? They manufacture demand, control the crowd, and pre-frame every interaction before a sales conversation even begins. This conversation goes deep into the mechanics behind high-performing booths: Why passive traffic kills ROI, how psychology outperforms design, what actually makes people stop, stay, and buy, and how the best companies turn trade shows into predictable revenue channels instead of expensive brand plays. If you've ever questioned whether trade shows "work",  this will show you why most don't. This episode is for: Founders investing in live events, expos, or trade shows, operators responsible for pipeline, lead generation, and conversion, sales leaders tired of low-quality event ROI, companies spending real money on visibility without measurable return. If you're not responsible for revenue, this isn't for you. Trade shows are one of the last true face-to-face sales environments where attention, influence, and execution collide in real time. This episode unpacks how business growth at events is driven by human behavior, not booth design. It shows how sales systems, buyer psychology, and real-time engagement determine whether you generate a pipeline or just collect badges. From lead capture failure rates to conversion gaps inside booth teams, this is a breakdown of how money is won or lost in live environments where most companies rely on hope instead of structure. Topics covered: Why most companies send their worst closers to their biggest opportunity The "booth buyer" mistake that kills ROI How to engineer crowd psychology and create a magnetic presence The 3-part model: attract, connect, convert Why 70–75% of trade show leads never get followed up The real role of booth staff in revenue generation How top companies generate 3x–4x ROI from the same events The difference between traffic and qualified attention Simple execution mistakes that cost companies millions Looking to dive deeper into these conversations and connect with our host and guest? Follow Anders Boulanger: Instagram Facebook LinkedIn Engagify.ai Follow Kayvon: Instagram Facebook LinkedIn TikTok     Want to go deeper with Kayvon? Subscribe to the newsletter Book a discovery call Get your Revenue Engine Scorecard™️ Hire the right salespeople

Welcome back to the vault unlocked. Most businesses don't have a lead problem. They don't even have a traffic problem. They have a system problem. And today, we're talking about one of the most overlooked and most expensive places where problems show up, trade shows. Companies are spending $50,000, $100,000, sometimes even more, to show up, set up a booth, and hope it turns into a pipeline. But there's no structure, no engagement strategy, no real conversion system behind it. So what happens? They burn money and call it brand awareness. Today's guest is Anders Boulanger, someone who spent years inside the trenches of trade shows,

not just watching them, but engineering them. He's built a completely different approach, one that turns passive booths into high converting experiences using psychology, engagement, and what he calls infotainment. We're breaking down what actually separates the booths that get ignored from the ones that generate real ROI. Let's unlock it. So I have to ask or at least put out the statement because I've seen this too many times. Companies say most companies spend at least $50,000 to go to a trade show and then they send their worst closers or their worst people there and hoping something comes from it. But today, Anders, you have a solution for this big problem.

I want to hear all to note it. One solution, maybe not just one. We're going to have like a kind of a multi-pronged attack and look at that. I mean, 50 grand, and it depends on the industry. That could be super cheap. You know, I've been in million dollar booths. I've been in, you know, all kinds of. And then, you know, it depends on the scale of the business that you have, right?

What kind of investment you want to make? But I think one of the things that we talk about, we talk about the trade show triangle. And it's like there's different levels of exhibitors. And so many are in the bottom part of that triangle where they are what we call a booth buyer. They buy a booth, they show up, and they wait. And they buy into that myth. If you build it, they will come, which is from field of dreams. And if you believe that, your dream and this is going to work for you, right, at a trade show.

So understanding that engagement is so key, understanding that it's going to take some energy, some being proactive. you know, there's a lot of things that you need to do to be able to make your investment worthwhile. And those who do crack that code are getting, you know, the 3x, 4x, ROI, you know, from their trade show investment. And it's not an expense. It is an investment. So let's take a step back here. I wanted to open up with that kind of, you know, a statement there. But I do want to take a back step here and go ask the question, okay, well, who is Anders?

And, you know, what do you do? I just went off on you. Yeah, you're like, all right, let's get into it. No, I love it. No, I love it. But yeah, you know, like just for the audience listening, let's make sure we understand, you know, who we're speaking to and how you even found, you know, this niche in the niche, yes. Yeah. So a bit of background.

When I was five years old, got a magic set for Christmas, became a magician, a kid magician, I guess, if you will. Paid my, well, did birthday parties, paid my way through university. I got a physics degree. Went full time doing magic. And then at some point, well, around 2007, I got trained by my mentor who taught me how to do trade shows in a new and different way. And so what I became was a what we call it an infotainer. So I take magic, but I tell a story with it that is a marketing message. And this builds a crowd of people.

It excites people. It kind of creates a peak state for people. And then we do qualification and a call to action and then lead a big crowd of people. people over to a demo and we're creating, you know, MQLs, SQLs, creating opportunities. And we just found a, I found a higher and better use for that skill set. And, and so over the years, you know, there's things that, you know, I'd see time and time again play out. And I'm a bit of a human A-B test. Like, I'm always going, well, is this going to work better? Is this going to work better? And seeing what moves people and then also where, you know,

exhibitors drop the ball, you know, like where I'm, doing my best, but I can only, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink, right? Like, sometimes I'd bring them over to the demo station. I'm like, where the heck's my demo guy? Like, you know, like we can't. You know, so, so there, there were these things that I noticed and started making notes on it. We started building trainings around it. And so now I'm on the faculty for the certified trade show marketing designation that's through exhibitor group and exhibitor magazine. And so it's just kind of all of this experience is kind of culminated into, you know, the expertise that we have now. So let's talk about trade shows as a whole because I know

I have my take on trade shows. And obviously you support and, you know, do great work at trade shows. But have you seen trade shows evolve, I would say over time, especially since we've got out of, the, you know, 20-20 era where trade shows came to a complete halt. Now, you know, people coming back in and you can see they're starting to pop up a lot more people are wanting to get back to them how they changed i would say in the last 10 15 years to where they are today for sure if we go back 15 years ago uh there was still a lot more business card you know fish bowls and and and that kind of like how the lead was acquired i was watching video of my mentor from years ago where used to have they pass out pencils and a piece of paper and you had to fill in your information on a sheet you know like

So they were like passing stuff out to the crowds. Like it was just wild. So now, of course, it's more scanning, you know, as far as if whether it's a QR code, whether it's the near field. But now what we're also seeing too is, you know, this scanning is getting so smart and attaching even conversations, almost like the, the AI conversation recording. You know, there's a, there's a company called Backtrack. So you and I cave on, you could come into the booth and we could just chat and start talking

about, you know, what what your pain points are, all that kind of stuff. And I say, hey, can I scan your badge? And in that moment, I could scan your badge and go back in time five minutes with our conversation. And that conversation then attaches to the lead. Wow. So when you think about following up in terms of relevance, right? You get all the follow up. And I guess this is a whole other point, but you want that follow up to be relevant so people open it. The big dirty secret way back when 15 years ago was that 75 to 80% of leads are never followed up on. Now, I think things have changed because we are more data driven. I work with it mostly tech companies.

So they got their tech stack and they're, you know, go to market. They got stuff figured out. And yet, swap card, which is a company that makes these, you know, scanners and things like that. They're saying still that 70 to 75% of the leads are never downloaded. So because they can see the fact. So I like I have trouble believing that, but that's what their stats are saying. So it's just so so it's kind of like I thought we were past that in terms of evolution. And yet two depends on on which industry.

So whatever industry you're in, you know, just take that professionalism up and be those ones that are actually, you know, using those leads and following up. So that was one side of, you know, that evolution. And then the other side, too, is analytics. So it used to be that you, if you were the marketing person going to your CEO and they say, like, you know, how was this show we invested in? And you say, well, it felt slower this year. Like, it's hard to go to the boardroom to these sea level executives and talk about feelings, right? So nowadays, there are different solutions that allow you to actually have analytics.

So whether it is based off of cell phone signatures, so that you can actually heat map a booth and see where the hotspots were, how long people stayed, you know, the impressions around the outside. We actually use a solution that it measures eyeballs. So it's AI, but it's ethical AI. There's no facial recognition, but there is facial analysis, and it just makes that into numbers. So it's counting how many people walk by? How many people, what's the stop rate? How many people stop and look at the booth for 15 seconds or more? How many people come in?

How long do they stay? What's their gender roughly, right? Like it's law of big numbers. Wow. Over 40, under 40 in terms of, you know, the age demographics. And then it can, there's a few. Oh, and energy. So energy meaning like really happy and excited would be like 85, 90.

They put a number to it. And like focused and serious would be like, you know, 65. to 70 kind of thing. So sometimes you can see the difference between what's happening in the aisle and what's happening in your booth. And if it's by a demo station, typically people are getting more serious because they're watching, you know. And if it's a cocktail hour, you know, or you're giving away booze in your booth, well, maybe it's going to be a higher energy. Right. So anyway, so you can see all of this and now we can start testing and seeing what are we doing is it working or is it not and then really applying those learnings to the next show right and

and so it seems like from what i mean when i said what's the difference it's AI completely advanced i mean the just the data that you just mentioned yeah i'm sure there's more data points too but just the data there can tell you instantaneously is it successful is it not successful i mean when you were talking about people's facial recognition like recognitions and when people are coming to the booth, you'll be able to tell it, does they even speak? Right? Like, does it even, this booth itself aesthetically speak to the people? Are they being attracted before they even have a call or talk with, you know, the demo person

or the, you know, the quasi. Let's call it the sales rep that's sitting at the trade show. Now, I know what you do is different, which I love. And that's why we're here because I've never even heard of this. And I think it's awesome. And you, I want to call it, you're the hype man at trade shows. But the height man that has a plan. and that delivers results.

So talk a little bit about like exactly how that works and how you see companies, you know, in the sense of businesses that hire you versus don't at that same trade show. What are we seeing? Yeah, for sure. So I think what trade shows, you know, one of my frustrations with a lot of ways that other people look at it is there's like, if we can just get more people at the booth, right?

Like it's just all about that, you know. And that is an important piece, you know. And we kind of talk about a three step model. of we want to attract the people, give them a reason to stop, but we also want to connect with them, give them a reason to listen. And so often we're so caught up of the attracting thing that, you know, we're giving away coffee. Like there's a barista giving away coffee in the booth and no one's even talking to anyone in that damn line. You know, like there's, there has to be reasons to connect and talk and just, you know, have meaningful interactions, right? Because at the

end of the day, people are going to visit 14 booths or something like that on average. And are they even going to remember being at your booth? Right? And you can't buy what you don't remember. So so that they attract, give them a reason to stop. The connect, give them a reason to listen. And then the convey, give them a reason to buy. And that's really where we're talking about, you know, conveying the message and the,

the sales message that we would think about having at a booth. So oftentimes people have gaps in that. and we're not getting there, right? It's sometimes it's a cry for attention. So what we do with our infotainment presentations is we bring all of that into one piece. And so we're kind of like a turnkey experience that we can even work in a 10 by 10 booth. So, you know, where sometimes you think, oh, I can't have an experience that don't have enough space. Well, we come in and we start off by just entertaining to spike dopamine, right?

People see that there's kind of a payoff. They want to be a part of something. where that magic and the entertainment demonstrations that we have. And then once we win them over, we start then integrating in the messaging. And so what happens is they are now learning at the same time as they're being entertained, hence the term infotainment. And every time we do a new demonstration, we're taking people from point A to point B, and there's an aha moment in the middle.

And that aha moment is usually where there's something amazing happening in the magic effect, but it's also where we introduce the solution of the company we're talking about. So what's happening is they're actually inductively learning, meaning they're putting it together in their heads. They're going, ah, and they're also seeing the connection with what we're doing. And that's what creates this peak experience that people can have. And meanwhile, we're kind of cheerleading them on a little bit. We're conducting the energy.

And oftentimes I have people yelling out the company name. And this happened yesterday that someone introduced me to someone else on LinkedIn and they said, oh, Anders was at the EFax booth. And this was the booth I was working at last week in L.A. And she said, I remember that because he made us remember that. We were yelling that name out loud in the booth. And so these are those little like psychological, you know, kind of, you know, crowd dynamics kind of stuff that we really engineer and engagement in the booth. And that's where we can kind of plug in and take something that is very

stagnant, very passive, people just waiting and make it an event happening in the booth that people want to be a part of. And then we do the qualification. We'll ask some questions. Who's going to, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, we work with the company, whatever that is. We see the handraising. And then we take those people and we bring them over to a demo. And then we kind of just lay them, put them right in your lap, right? I love it. Layups already. pre-framed. Yeah. Psychological warfare, I'd like to say, but I know it's not, but it's using psychology, which I love, which is, you know, why I got into marketing and what I love about marketing. I love to go deeper into some of that psychology, if you don't mind of like, even

where did you, you know, identify that holy moly, like, because what, what I'm looking at when I see this is like, there's the booth with the, with the business who already has its people there like the sales you know the trade people there their booth staff yeah boost staff thank you uh and then you are kind of sitting on top of that to really set the booth staff up for success yeah to me i'm like this like when i think about it like i now i even know what exists how do you even compete why would i even go like why would i go to a trade show and not have someone like you i'm selling for you i just doesn't no no no goes to it doesn't make sense i go okay like if there's 20 people at a trade show. One of them is using psychological warfare to get more people to my booth already indirectly or directly pre-framed. So now they've already raised their hand in a way of knowing I'm interested in what this is. So my guys are not at my booth as a business owner. They're not wasting time talking to the people who shouldn't even be at the booth. And they're pre-framed. We call those home runs where where I come from.

It does, it does like cut to the chase. And so there's a few things happening there. One thing, too, is the optics of a busy booth, right? When you have a crowd around of a booth, they're like, what's going on there? Right. They're a going concern. They have what we call them creating a magnetic presence. Okay.

I love this. This is the stuff I want to talk about. Yeah. And so when I'm building a crowd, I don't care who the heck you are. You're not quite like I will take a security guard if I need to, right? Like I always say I'm badge agnostic. You know, come. Everyone can watch.

We're all good. Let's make something happen. So I'm trying to build up that gravitational pull because we need to get past that critical mass, right? Like if I'm talking to three people, that's almost not quite a crowd yet. It's like three's company, four is a crowd. Then I get four people. And now it starts having a little bit of more of a poll. Right.

And so if we really break down what's going on and I'll just slow down because you, you want to get into the psychology of this. Well, I love to, yes. Is, is, is I give, I give, I give a chance to win $2,000. Wow. And so I, I fan out a fan of cash, you know, $40, $50 bills. I throw them down on the floor and then I do a magic demonstration on the floor. So I'm kneeling on the floor by all this cash. And I might have one or two people watching me right now. So there's not a lot happening, but I'm on a microphone and I'm swinging for the fences, meaning I'm not playing small and not being on a microphone. I'm doing a show.

Like, this is a performance. And they can tell by the way that I talk about it that this is going to happen. It's not like, if we get enough people, we're going to do a little show here. Like, that's not, that's not how it is. We got like Buster style. Yeah. There is that. There's a street performance for corporate, you know, it's corporate street performing, I often say.

So then people watch me do it. And what happens is basically I'm using a shower. and a deck of cards cuts itself. It's like, it's, it's impressive. And it's, that's what I open with. And, and, but then I say, that's the warm up. And everyone's like, where's he going? Like, okay.

So now more, a few more people are standing around. So maybe we have five or six people. They're standing shoulder to shoulder. I do a thing where I, I take a marker and I draw an X, a sharpie on my hand. And we do a fist bump. And everyone fist bumps all the way around. And I'm like, we're going to create some connection. And this literally does create connection in the way that all these strangers now

have touched each other. But what I want them to do is I want them to, I want to congeal the artery. I want to bond them together in a sense that I don't want them to leave. I want them bond them to me too, right? So we're a group. So what ends up happening, the last person who had already put their hand behind their back, brings their hand out, does a fist bump, opens their hand. They have the X.

The X is gone off my hand. And they're like, whoa, right? So this is all just magic at this point. This is all just entertainment, dopamine spiking, right? just and there's a little bit of like what is going on how did this like where am i i'm at this booth and now all this things are happening then i get up on my stage and when i get up on when i get on the stage i get on page meaning i bring in the scripting what we've planned to talk about so we built rapport on the floor and now we get on stage and get on page so uh now i i usually say a little

something to kind of get people to be in on it right and and i'll say how many notice this is not your normal presentation. It's not a lot of PowerPoint here, right? This is not a presentation. It's an experience. And we're going to co-create this experience, meaning it's not me doing it for you, but it's us doing it for each other. Do you want to have a good time?

Say yeah. And everyone goes, yeah. Like now they're like, yeah, let's do this, right? And I go, take a step in. And then they come a little bit closer. And so I always want to keep them nice and close. The closer they are, the less chance they're going to leave. It's also more, everything's more impressive.

and they're shoulder to shoulder with people, so they're feeling their energy. And so we're really architecting how they experience it. Manufacturing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's kind of how. And then I get into the different routines, but we're just building out the crowd now

and more people are stopping. Typically, the more I touch someone or interact with someone, the more interesting that is. And then at the end of the presentation, I'm going to give someone a chance to win $2,000. At that point, when I say, okay, we're going to give someone a chance to win $2,000, nobody's moving a muscle now, right? Everyone's listening.

And then I can pretty much say or do whatever I want in that little, you know, minute or two minute before they, their patience is up, right? Yeah. But that's where throughout the presentation, I've said, you know, who wants to win 2K? Raise your hand. And people raise their hand. You know, how many people are,

having this problem, you know, is this, is this true? And people are nodding their heads and I'm, I'm gauging their level of, of either frustration or the fact that they are right fit people throughout the presentation. And so at the end, I can ask these more direct qualifying questions and people are already trained to raise their hand. So they will out themselves at that point, right, whether or not that's the case. And then I make a case to go check out a demo. Now, whether we've incentivized it by a special gift that we're giving away, maybe it's just kind of like I sometimes say, we're going to do a three-minute save session. In three minutes time, we're going to show you how to save time, save money, and save your sanity. You've heard you spend 15 with me. What's

another three? Right. So see Suzanne over there, she's going to talk to you guys, you know, I'll bring you over. And Suzanne's just smiling and ready. Yeah, she's like, bring them all. She's a bright star. Yeah. So, so that's, That's kind of, and then I say that the loudest person who yells the company's name, if you need a cue card, it's right behind me. On the count of three is going to get picked to have a chance to win my cash. And then I play a game with them that the odds are stacked in their favor. And yet I basically do it for a living.

So I, you know, I'm good at it. And the question is, do they get the cash? The odd time they do. I am very good at the game. So I try to keep my cash. And if the company wants me to give away some cash, I will give away some cash and intentionally lose. So there is some.

So if we wanted to, we could do it for less cash and lose every time. But this is just kind of the way that I choose to do my presentations. Yeah. Yeah. So how many presentations would you do in if I had brought you in or a business brought you in? Yeah. You know, say an eight, I'm going to say typical 10 hour, 12 hour day at a booth.

What shows are you doing? Well, there you go. I don't know. You tell me. Yeah. I mean, I haven't done a lot of trade show. No, it's all right. A great show. Typical trade show is probably seven or eight hours a day.

Sometimes I was just at one that was 10 hours a day. Yeah, okay. So, as I say, 12 hours. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, yeah. So typically we contract for. 10 to 6, 10 to 7, right?

Or usually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We typically contract for five presentations a day. Okay. Yeah. So the first, first hours sometimes dead, last hours sometimes dead.

Middle five and maybe there's a lunch in there, you know, so it works out pretty well in a seven hour day. and then and then kind of rinse and repeat right so we make the booth busy make it happening and then let it go back to normal which is always kind of a good like this if you didn't have me this would be like all the time by the way right you know that kind of experience what that looks like but it's also a little bit of a break for the booth neighbors because I can get sound complaints and if I'm if I'm going all the time they're like oh like this guy's killing us so it's kind of nice to have that like ebb and flow through. I was going to say, there's, there's a cooth to this and even, you know, and a respect, obviously. Yes. Yes. And my question is, how do the trade show, and the trade show, uh, do they give clearance on this or are the businesses just bring you? It's like, it's on my booth. I paid for the booth. Love it or like it kind of. Sometimes it's that. Sometimes it's, it's, uh, usually the only, the only thing that sometimes is a snag is some shows don't allow sound, uh, either at all. or they don't allow it for a certain size of booth or sponsorship.

So let's say a 10 by 10 or a 10 by 20, they didn't pay enough to have a sound system in their booth is kind of what they're saying. So I've done that. Sometimes I can do, I've actually in Europe one time in Barcelona, I had to do a show with no sound system. And it was interesting because I don't try to do that. That's like hard on the voice because, you know,

you're trying to project and everything. but I found something interesting was that with a sound system, let's say I've got my crowd and Kavon, you're like, you know, you're like maybe 15 feet deeper and there's a bunch of space between the crowd who's actually having a good time. And you're kind of, I call these people like energy vampires. They're just like, they're just going to absorb and watch from afar,

but they're not going to give it back, right? They're not going to be part of it. I love it. And so if I was on a microphone, you could hear me from there. and so you can enjoy the show from there. But what I found was when I wasn't using a microphone, those people, they were tempted to come in closer because they couldn't hear.

And so I was like, oh, my, you know, this is, it wasn't so bad, but it's not a real, you know, you can still do that with the microphone with voice infliction, right? That's, well, no, that's true too. And it, but there is almost kind of like a sweet spot where to do that. So you're saving your voice,

um, you know, at the same time as, as, uh, you know, creating that intimacy, right, and not ticking off all your booth neighbors. But typically what I'll do is I'll go to all the booth neighbors around, especially the ones that are kind of indirect line with my speaker.

And then I'll say, hey, you know, I'm going to be doing this thing over here. My job is to put a bunch of people right in this intersection. So when we're done with them, tap them on the shoulder, bring them into your booth, you know. And they're like, oh, okay, great, great. So I try to frame it so that they realize that this is kind of a fun. an unique thing that they're going to be around and you know you can you can benefit for everyone wins which they probably would benefit just from a little bit more higher traffic so well we've yeah and and and you know what the funniest thing is i've had complaints from

from these booth neighbors they said your crowds are standing in our booth and i'm like well then they're yours take them take them like really you're welcome you're welcome but you know i've seen i've seen you know things online just videos of like just i'd call them like angry trade show goers that, you know, they've been doing for 10 years and they just, they hate themselves. They hate being there and they hate anything that's unique or that's actually bringing a positive live. I've seen that too many times.

Yeah, definitely, I mean, you can get jaded, you know, spending good money. It shows if you're, you know, not getting results. I can understand that. But there are other things out there. You can try. There's a science. There's a science to this for sure. I'm dying to ask, because I'm going to sue, you've been to, you've seen all the greatest shows,

you've seen the smallest to the biggest, the widest, to the tallest, I mean, all different types. When you think about all the greatest shows you've gotten to, like, what's one thing that stands out the most, whether it was the most interesting, there was a shocking thing you saw or unique thing you saw, comedy do? Like, what stands out? Well, I'll tell you, there's, let me tell you one thing. There was one moment at VMware, I should say, one time, where I was doing a presentation, but two booths to my right at IBM, Tony Hawk was signing skateboards, and they were giving away skateboards.

Two booths behind me was the mountain from the Game of Thrones, like the world's strongest man. And then Clay Thompson was shooting three-pointers in basically a half court that they constructed as a trade show booth. if this was all happening all at once. And so I was kind of like, okay, anyone who's not into fantasy, skateboard or,

you're my people. Come on. Let's, you know, this kind of thing. So celebrity appearances are kind of a neat thing that we see. But those are kind of fleeting,

right? Like, that's only going to be for a short amount, and the more famous, the person, the shorter amount of time, that's actually going to happen. I do remember seeing like an American Ninja Warrior course

in a booth one time, which is kind of memorable. So people would try to do, these things and it was it was a very dumb down version because obviously those kind of athletes were not attendees at the show so but but there was a foam pit and there was you know things that you had fall into and try to do um there was a skateboard half pipe beside my booth one time um and that didn't really work that well it sounded like a cool idea but they you know it wasn't as big of a draw as they thought it would be right sometimes sometimes you get this wild idea like

There's this one company called Fusion.io. And that was the company that used to, they're no longer, they got bought. But that was the one that did the, the Ninja, American Ninja Warrior course. They did a bicycle powered Ferris wheel one time. So you got in this thing and you like peddled it and it would make it go around, you know. And so people could ride this ferris wheel that they construct. Like so wild and different, you know. whether or not they pulled business out of that, right?

Like this is that whole, you gave them an experience, you give them a reason to stop, is there relevance, is that connection? Is there that other piece to it? And sometimes if it's more brand building, more of that new kids on the block,

like, we're here and you want that brand recognition, that wild stuff is good for that too, right? It depends. You got like brand marketing and then like direct response in terms of like, show an ROI, right? There is, you know, there is some crazy sponsorships that are sold at trade

shows, you know, that you'd pay $40,000 for, to give away popcorn for a two-hour reception. And there's like a dime size logo on the bag. Like, like, you know, it's like, I guess that's brand building, but doesn't work. I mean, those are the things I think are mostly hard to attract. But again, even like you said, nowadays, with scan and codes and all that, become an easier and easier. Yeah. So if someone's listening here and thinking, hey, I haven't done trade shows or I, you know, I've been thinking about trade shows. And we wanted to give some actual like, you know, good knowledge, I would say to them. What would be like couple do's and don'ts? Like if like, like, I'm talking basics. We're talking. Basics. Yeah. Just simple like, yeah,

sure, sure. Sure. Here are the three things to look out for. Here's the three things you must have. Just to have that conversation. I think it'd be great. Yeah. Well, I think we kind of mentioned a little bit in terms of capturing attention, typically spiking dopamine is how we do that. And if we give a gift, if there's novelty at sake, you know, people, oh, oh, I want that, right? And then you create FOMO. So that's why giveaways and, you know, raffles and things like that are always so common at trade shows, right? So definitely some sort of giveaway is a good idea, right? It's a reason why you continually see it, you know, for it goes way back and it'll continue to go way forward. another thing I would say is invest in your people like trade shows are like a different world

and to really thrive in that world you need to be operating you know at that level of energy to be to be there all day to show up and to really you know beyond your best be booth staff behavior if you will so stay off your phone you know don't eat in the booth we we always talk about, you know, you want to avoid clustering, meaning don't be get internal and having this conversation with your other booth staffers. Like, you know, you want to face the aisle. We say butts to the booth, not asses to the aisle, right? Like, it's like you want to make sure you're facing in case someone walks by. I did this last week. I, and if anyone follows me on LinkedIn and I post a lot of these videos where I kind of do walk and talk videos. And I took a picture of three people

who are all heads down on their phones sitting in a booth. And you're, going to see this all the time. But the fact that I could get away with taking the picture and they never saw me do it. Right. It's like, I could have been a perfect fit whale of a customer for them. Right. And whether I not, I looked at your booth or not, I walked right on by, but they'll never know. Right. And so my message in that last video I made was like, don't be complaining about, you know, the ROI you're going to at a trade shows if you're pulling that kind of crap right like so so when i say invest in your people 49% of of companies rarely or never train their booth staff so the 51% that do train their booth staff regularly or quite often most of them do it internally and i've been at those internal

trade show trainings and here's what it is cave on it's it's an event manager taking a phone and just going okay uh don't eat in the both yeah staff your phone. And it's just, it's just someone reading, yeah, it's just reading a thing, right?

So, so we, we have boost staff trainings on our, on our website on engageify. com. That are meant, they're just, they're very affordable per person.

And it's the idea that we just, we don't want to give people an excuse not to train their boost staff. And the thing that we've found is it's the number one thing that companies need. It's the last thing they'll ever spend money on. And, and so. the eye candy of the booth and the whole like oh we're going to do this we're going to do it they pour all of their investment into that right and getting their people there and but they don't think about

that engagement piece and in 85% of your success at a trade show is because of your booth staff okay so there's all kinds of stats i can spout i don't want to get into it too much but that is you know it is no matter how much you click from place to place it'll never replace face to face that's you know trade shows are about face to face. And then what are like, I get there was a little bit dues, I guess, in there and don'ts in there. Yeah, a little bit. I just got up on my soapbox instead of ranting.

I mean, I think it's great, though. I mean, I just want to make sure people heard that. Like, what I'm hearing is we need to have a giveaway and a giveaway it means that their gift. You've got to create some novelty, some fomo. That's kind of step one. That's like a step one must have. So when thinking about even going through a trade show, the question is, hey, what's the

novelty. What's the phone? What's the giveaway that we can create to really at the end, which is the most important, the spike dopamine is what you said. Number two, I'm going to call it trade booth etiquette, which is salesman etiquette, which is everyday human etiquette, but people, we've just lost that etiquette, which is what are the tools and what's the responsibilities of how people at the booth? Again, typical things like not eating at the booth, not clustering at the booth. I love what you said. Ass is facing in, not out. You know, being able to bring out that energy.

So it's really people etiquette. What's one more? What's one more? One more is, you know, for I talk about what is the kind of person we want to engage with? I call it creating your own engaging persona. Meaning, you know, sometimes people, especially if they're on the technical side, they might be a little quiet, this kind of thing. We need to kind of bring a different version of.

ourselves just to amp it up you know just to so you know whether that is smiling being open just being more personable trying to crank up your warmth so uh we talk about Kobe Bryant was the black mamba right uh we had you know Sasha fierce was Beyonce's alter ego right you might have a pumped up version of yourself and just you know just bring that to the shows you know when it's showtime when the show hours kick up yeah you know kick into that extra gear uh because there's it's a lot of people are not going to do that. And how are you going to stand out at the end of the day? Like we want to have these memorable interactions with people.

So personality that I would say, okay, really what's engagement? Three is the idea of how are you going to engage? We're going to rely just in your people to engage. We're going to hire people like you to engage. We're going to use music to engage. How are we going to create the hype? And no. And I love what you said too is also know the people we want.

So what are the people we want to attract here? And I can tell you, those three simple things, I feel like a lot of businesses just don't even get right. A lot of them just sit back and wait, right, and just see what they're going to do. And even, you know, and there's another thing that I just had a call the other day with a company. Like, they sometimes say, well, we want quality over quantity. So we're going to scale back on this and just try to get quality. And it's like, well, the whole trade show booth is a funnel. Right.

Like it's like the more people you get to the booth, the more good ones you'll find. Right. And so just making sure that you are filtering them and being able to find the good ones that are there. And that's why we do that whole. We find the quality and the quantity with our call to action. But it's sometimes they feel like they're just like, I'm just going to find quality. It's like, well, how are you going to do that? You just sounds like you just want to sit back.

I want to see what comes to you. In a haystack, right? Right. You said what makes them want to come to you versus the 50, 60, 70 other booths. Listen, from what I'm hearing is that I said it in between and I want to make sure this is not a paid promotion. But from what I'm seeing and I'm understanding here, if I was, I have a business myself and if I was ever even thinking about doing a trade show, I wouldn't be doing one without calling you first. Because you to me seem like you are the recipe for success if you want to have an effective promotional. and conversion, high conversion trade show.

With that being said, where can they find you? Yes. So I did drop it before, Engagify.aI-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-F-Y. We're not an AI company. The AI stands for authentic interactions. That's what that's about. So on that, we have a learning hub. We have past webinars we've done.

We've got our trainings. We've got all kinds of tools there. Check that out. And then follow me on LinkedIn. Anders Belanger. I'm going to spell it. Sorry, A-N-D-E-R-S, and then looks like Boo Langer, B-O-U-L-A-N-G-E-R. I post all kinds of videos in the field at trade shows talking about these different tips.

Awesome. Thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me, Kvon.