The Vault with Financielle - Can You Build Wealth Without A High Income? | The Vault Episode 45

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Send us a textIn Episode 45 of The Vault, we discuss this week’s controversial opinion, “You don’t need a high income to build wealth”, before diving into our listener dilemmas:💸 "Stuck between paying off debt and starting a family”💸 "He has a 'what's mine is mine' attitude”We celebrate an incredible community win: after just two years of using Financielle, one member will have paid off all their consumer debt—an amazing total of £45,086.35! 🎉If you’d like to share your money win, head to the community in the Financielle app or email [e-mail] Send your (totally anonymous) money dilemmas to [e-mail] and we may feature yours on a future episode 💌As a Vault listener, you can get a whopping 25% off our digital course, The Money Playbook. This is a step by step guide to being financially well. It has 101 lessons where you'll learn how to budget, ditch debt, build savings and grow wealth. Use this offer code at checkout: VAULTCheck out The Money Playbook course here 💸Chapters:00:00 Introduction00:45 New Year Reflections and Traditions01:47 New Year Celebrations and Personal Stories09:45 Controversial Opinions on Wealth14:46 Dilemma: Balancing Debt and Starting a Family20:41 Budgeting for IVF and Childcare22:38 Community Success Story24:20 Financial App Promotion24:57 Relationship and Financial Dilemma28:40 Advice on Financial Independence29:48 Legal and Financial Protections37:00 Final ThoughtsThe Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

Hey everyone, it's Holly here. Before we get into the episode, I want to share something exciting. That's right. If you're looking to take control of your money, the Financial app is your go-to tool. With the app, you can track your spending, create realistic budgets, and hit your money goals faster than ever. In fact, did you know our premium community members save three and a half times more than our free users? That's incredible. Plus, you'll be part of an amazing community where we all support each other on our money journeys. Whether you're starting to pay off debt or planning for your future, the app has everything that you need to make it happen.

So what are you waiting for? Download the Financial app today and start your free trial. Trust us, your future self will wish you did it sooner. Welcome to The Vault with Financial. This is a safe space where we talk all things life and money and no topics are off limits. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. I was thinking friends. Happy New Year. Oh my god, I'm just thinking. We're starting the year with a crash bang wallet. Lucy's kicking a drink over. She's so excited to be back in the financial room. I don't like New Year. Don't you? I'm just going to put it out there.

As in the pressure to be like, happy New Year. Like, it gives me the ick. Yeah. When everyone's got to kiss everyone, everyone's got a hug. Like, all our friends went to get together and we sometimes do a house party,

sometimes go to the pub, sometimes do different things. It's easier when you've got kids to get out and we sometimes do a house party, sometimes go to the pub, sometimes do different things. Easier when you've got kids to get out of these situations when you're a single pringle or a dink or whatever you might be. I was like,

what's a dink? Dual income, no kids. It's harder to sometimes get out of these things unless you've got your own little like New Year tradition but I really,

it gives me the ick when you have to kiss people on New Year's. Yeah. Happy New Year. So what did you do? Stayed at home, obviously.

Steak. Were you asleep for midnight? So I usually would be, but I do try and stay awake. Last year, I remember me and Neil lying in bed going like, night, and it was probably like 10 to 12.

So close. Purposely. So close. I was trying my 10 to 12. So close. Purposely. So close. I was trying my best. Please. But Ali, when he's not in a nap, you're like, we're really there. But it ends up being a bit painful.

Rest in my eyes. If you're a, like. If you're an early bird. Yeah, it's really hard work. It's not fun. It ends up not being very fun. So, but a few sparklers in the garden, because we did fireworks the year before and Neil bought them and literally I don't know if you remember Laura came

I feel like they got wet when's the main event we were like when did the big ones come and Neil was like I think that was it he was fuming it makes you appreciate proper displays doesn't it yeah so much more. Our friend does a massive, massive bonfire night one. Three nights, I think she does now. Yeah, three nights.

And it's sell out 500 people at each event. It's incredible. Follow them on Instagram. And we watch them from our house because our kids don't like fireworks. But they're incredible. They're so good.

But these, honestly. It's like reducing the things you have to buy on new year's no we do similar actually so we i love being able to see people like during the day our tea time so all our friends if they like they some of them said that a bit later but i loved getting together being like hi crazy happy new year okay we're going home especially i've got one of the youngest the toddler is like is getting up harder so you know you can't just sit in the pram and stuff he's like very active and so getting them home treat a bit more like a normal i think it's nice it's for us it's another little christmas eve so i do like new year's you can make it really special on my terms in pajamas really good bougie food so yeah we did

m&s steak yeah yeah and then sticky stuff pudding champagne and but not not midnight like bedtime yeah didn't see it fireworks don't even wake me up did you hear the

fireworks I'm like no did I what did you do we would go out for like a nice little meal

go for a drink home watching the who's the guy I don't know Jules Holland yeah see that gives me the

who's the guy especially when for a long time I didn't realise it was pre-recorded if you're not watching on YouTube just drop

it's like I'm just told if something's not real pre-recorded so they go so that literally is like friends have you seen

the friends episode where Joey is the dancer isn't it the dancer yeah oh my god maybe me and Neil will do that on News Eve's eve learn the dance the monica and ross oh yes and they don't get on they get invited to go up yeah they don't go on the podium the podium that's it if you want if you're just listening you need to get on youtube

and watch holly's dancing there i feel like you know the moves more than to go on YouTube and watch Charlie's dance in there I feel like you know the moves more than me, go on me and my brother used to do it meet your brother oh my god that's going to be my new years thing and I'm going to present it back to you all well you've got a year to practice so good luck

Lydia please come to the table with something more than we're offering oh then pyjamas and tea. Yeah, no, I can't, sorry. I respect you for that. And that's why we are friends. Yeah, that's why we all get on so well.

No, it's not one person in the group that's like, I'm going to go out, go and get smashed. Going on a bender. We're getting smashed. We don't even know what to say. I'm going to rot off. I like to wake up on New Year and like go for a nice fresh walk last year I went for a run

I was forced Alex out for a run and I was just like I want to start the New Year how I want to like go on I'm not being hungover

I'm not being hungover on New Year's Day I can't do that that gives me bad vibes I love this. I find the New Year walk thing really funny because in our front room, it's the 1970s house.

And so it's a huge window, like absolute huge window. Everyone can just see the all inside of our house. And so if I sit in the right spot, I can people watch. So I got a cup of tea, like nine, 10 o'clock.

And you start to see so the dog walkers there's our routine dog workers you know sometimes there's if it's a friend they'll look in and we'll do a nod and they'll carry on and but those are those people and some people are daily walkers right on their own with the headphones in there's a routine to them and there are daily runners then there are the new year ones yeah which is sometimes like you know yeah i've got it never like they come out of a dinosaur egg like you know yeah i've got it never worked like they come out of a dinosaur egg like rubbing their eyes you've got kids being dragged along like hung over teenagers yeah but you can you can imagine the conversation which is like let's go for a new

year's walk i can't understand how that conversation starts it's like the gym thing that we spoke about last time like don't clog up the pavement for people that walk every day and the runners that just go on first day of the year. Yeah, I was there last year Dun and Massey. Yeah.

Like dodging everyone on their New Year's. Yeah. See you in a month. Not. Yeah, New Year's a funny, funny old one,

isn't it? Christmas, very different. Love the chaos. Welcome the chaos. Want to be with all the kids and the family and the noise and the presents and the New Year. year I'm like I think the social battery's gone

by then I just think new year's nice date night it is easy yeah yes I always want to go out but there's always like I think you went out last year for dinner didn't you but a lot of the time it's like a set meal and I don't want the set meal yeah last year I did yeah you went out well so we were gonna go to we just went to like a nice little independent place but we looked at do you know opera grill it's part of the big like I think it's same as like piccolinos that might be wrong yeah um like 200 pounds per person and I'm like I just want a meal I'm gonna get the same thing I would get like normally I'm not gonna get anything special our parents last year did um the ivy with my auntie for like tea time sitting so they didn't so it was like I think I think the price

was fair I remember thinking that's all right that price and then they like got a taxi and I think got a taxi home can't remember but they um they like as all the chaos was arriving they were like that's nice that's a flex yeah I thought that was a good thing going for the bougie meal like celebrate New Year's I think people have done fake midnights before with kids so Sarah

our friend that's like massive supporter of Final and Shell she's got a great Instagram account the Copper Beach House go and have a look at it

she does one for the kids so when we did a big there's so many of us you know we've talked about the infamous group group that we're in

like a small village but like there's like 30 of us that all get together it's such a good time that's not including kids by the way so you can only imagine when the kids outnumber us all but she does a fake midnight for the kids so it gets like 10 o'clock because she knows that all the adults are going to be a little bit not with it at midnight and she does a fake one for them so she sets them all up with like party poppers and a countdown and gives them a glass of lemonade because it's later than

like eight she gives them a glass of lemonade then they feel like they're having champagne and she does a five four it's really cute nice idea for people

if you don't think you can make it at least we should do that let's all do a fake midnight at ten I get Alex to do that for me Holly stayed up here's a party popper I don't know 10 o'clock's a push for

holly some nights neil's worried about me sometimes the last few weekends like quarter to nine it's like you said you were gonna stay up and we're gonna watch this film together i'm like say film to me and i'm yeah i'm like a documentary would have been different yeah yeah well listen we've got new year i wonder what we're going to be saying in a year like what we're going to do financial 2025 what are people going to do with the money what questions people are going to have what dilemmas um what controversial opinions segue that was an intentional no it's a good one okay today's first controversial opinion of 2025 you don't need a high income to build wealth

so many people would be like you definitely do it's impossible if you don't have a lot like what is the definition of wealth and being wealthy yeah well who'd who in society determines that someone's wealthy or not i'm sure there must be some sort of measurement because you got i'm not going to get on forbes wealthy list for 2025 i mean i might do something drastic might change yeah but who determines what wealth is obviously you've got your uber you know billionaires multi multi multi billionaires i think a lot of time it's like are you financially independent so you know do you need to work do you have enough savings or investments to to live off and I think that typically is if someone to say what's wealthy

to me it's it's that and that is determined by how much you need which is very very different to being rich isn't it like you know the number of multi multi-millionaires that we see going bankrupt lottery winners footballers you know business owners crashing and burning. And I just, even with a lot of money in the bank at the rate that they spend and need more and need more, they don't seem very well to me. No, it's like the more that comes in, the more that goes out. And we call it lifestyle creep for all of us that get like a pay rise or a sum of money coming to us that was expected.

The taste goes up, the meals get nicer, the car gets bigger and more expensive but um no i don't think you do in answer to the question i don't think you do need a high was it the high paid job is that was the thing um to to be deemed wealthy you can have wealth for us is about being financially well like i feel wealthy because i don't worry about money every day and there's plenty of people in our community that can't sleep at night because they're worried about money. And they get paid double than I do. Triple, quadruple. We speak to them, we know them.

I haven't paid nothing. We do speak to wealthy people that are not financially well and therefore would not deem themselves wealthy. But on paper, in terms of their income, they should be wealthy because there's so much they could do with that income that shouldn't be wasted, that should be go to growing the wealth or creating

passive forms of income so that then they don't have to rely on that high salary to live the life that they kind of built for themselves i think it is it surprises people how little you actually need to invest because it's the time and the patience and the not get rich quick and i think so many people get distracted by that that they don't do the basics and so if get rich quick. And I think so many people get distracted by that, that they don't do the basics. And so if you can create a budget where you're living on less than you make and you're investing the difference slowly and steady, you know, it's not when you're, say if you're starting in your 30s,

it's not only when you're 70. It can be in your mid 40s and 50s, but people don't want to wait that long. They want it now. And then they want to live the life. Well, you know, might not be here by then. I want to wait that long they want it now and it's and and then they want to live the life well you know might not be here by then I'm here for that as well I could get it but the they just think they give up because they think oh when I've got when I earn that I'll do it when I'm that you know some of some of uh you know my longer term wealth was built with my early 20s you know when I finally ditched the debt, when I finally

bought my first house, when I finally started to invest extra in the pension. And so I might not be like walking with that wealth on my wrist or on my finger or under my arm and my handbag, like it's, it's there and it's modest, but it's my wealth and it's my family. It works for my family. And I think people would shock themselves if they did investment calculators. And it's the thing with investing actually, lots of people want to get into investing, but they talk about,

I think you put a hundred quid in and then leave it and then go, it's gone down. And it's like, ooh, this is this longer term, regular payment, like it's a bill. But you can't do that if you have car payments and debt payments and carner payments and shopping habits holidays on credit cards you can't do everything so yeah i think that we have people in our community the higher earners having to control spending having to pull back life creep and they sit you know and you know this is a lesson like

you know I love those in our community who are 50 plus because they're they're cracking the whip they're making plans they're doing stuff but they pass on nuggets to the younger generation which is I wish I did yeah I wish I'd have done this don't what I did, which is spend more than you make. And so you can have two people who one earns double, but if their expenses are double or more than double, then the person with less of an income, lower income, may just be doing all right. Because when it looks like it's not- I would say there's a few in our community

that are probably on lower incomes that are so much more financially well than people that aren't. For sure. I can name them off the top of my head. Don't get me wrong. The more you earn, the better. Like, make sure. Yeah, of course.

But this is where you can have compromises. It's what you do. It's literally what you do with it. It's literally what you do with it. Yeah. I like it. Okay. First dilemma.

I'm stuck between paying off debt and starting a family. Hello, I've just joined Financial and I'm feeling motivated to get financially well. I'm in a same-sex relationship, both women. My wife and I got married this year and bought our first house. I'm a lawyer earning £51,000 and my wife earns around £25,000. My parents lent us money for our first house purchase. We owe them £6,000 and my wife earns around £25,000. My parents lent us money for our first house purchase. We owe them £6,000. We also have around £6,000 in credit card debt between us. Right now I feel overwhelmed. We've read the playbook and we know we need to build a mini emergency fund. We've

saved £500 so far which feels like a good start. What feels unmanageable is the cost of fertility treatment. There's also the ticking biological clock in the background. Our next big money goal is to save for fertility treatment. We know from friends in same-sex relationships that this can cost tens of thousands of pounds. Some friends have borrowed to fund it but we don't want to take on more debt. I'm worried about how long it will take to pay off this debt build sinking funds and save for fertility treatment starting the process is top priority for us any advice would be so appreciated can we just pause for the the mental moment where i'm picturing them both like on the kitchen table like two two women doing this plan is like my dream yeah like it's getting super absolute goals

super organized and like really excited about it together and you know even though obviously our personalities are different i've just get excited about this seems a very aligned question this is from both of them about this and this obviously would be the same question if you've got um a heterosexual relationship saving up for like ivf is just overwhelming we've got so many people doing it um and who have watched this and so please feel free messaging with your experiences we can definitely share this back with the person that's in the dilemma room. But a couple of things. Income's in a good place.

She doesn't say how long ago she found financial. She said they've read the playbook, which is really cool. Does she? She doesn't say, because like 500 quid. Come on, come on. Laura's going to go hard on you now like yeah you've got a good income like that's a good income so you're in a really good place that could have really eaten into any opportunity in the short term yeah yeah but now head down

i would be wanting to see the key the budget's key to all this because gonna share something a little controversial, right? Mini emergency fund, yes. So one month's expenses minimum for that. You know, you're a lawyer, you don't see what your partner does, but hopefully it's a good job that is also fairly easy to get another one. When you're looking at emergency funds, you're like, what could we manage? Risk profile. Yeah, risk, that's such a way to explain it.

So once I've got that mini emergency fund think family is super important and having children if it's your goal and you want to do that and you've clearly raised the things that you know women unfortunately with a biological clock and we just none of us know how it's going to go for us um how quickly and how many cycles and what have you your debt isn't crazy for the year income so you're at 12 grand of six of which is with parents and so you will know how delicate or not that debt is um you've been making minimums on the other on the credit card one or i think she says that the other six and so maybe doing some form of payment back like the normal bills but singing from time and cash flow time so you need to get to a point where once that emergency

fund's done and do it aggressively like get that budget done because this is this is where you can go aggressive because you're motivated by something else do you know like and you're a team as well there's a goal the goal you're motivated by a goal that is not just so we'd like to be debt-free it's we want to have children and that costs us and that's our blocker like we we you know that couple cannot try for children until they've paid for something and so I would not tell someone to pay off debt before paying for IVF I think the only way I would is if it was unmanageable and it was affecting their mental health. Like, you know,

the worst scenario for you is you're meant to be, like, not stressed, quite relaxed. You're going through something quite aggressive and it's not easy. You wouldn't want to do that with, like, loads of high interest debt hanging around.

So that's the only time where you'd be like, okay, maybe. But... I would want to know, like you said about family. But it's a good income. I would want to know, like you said about family. We've spoke about this before. If you've borrowed money from someone and then you're going to be like,

oh, we're paying for IVF. Yes, you need the blessing, I think. It's family dynamic. Then stress can ensue. So I've got a little bit of a difference of opinion because You think pay off the debt first. Yeah, because you want to be clear of mind and it's expensive not only to save up to try for a child with medical intervention like IVF or support it's inexpensive to be on maternity leave and it's like I feel like it could just

never get addressed yeah no I think that's fair you know I accept that and I also think coming back to the income point is so they've got 12 grand's worth of debt and they have a 75k income so smash that very quick which is why i'm like get rid of it because it just shows they're willing to be like yeah i think that's fair i think you don't we don't know where they live in if it's a london salary is like suddenly that has been eating up a little bit but um this is about getting aggressive and so we've had a split split decision yeah we never have a split decision on here i don't think i think i'm always torn when it's children and ivf and the i don't want people to take it away and think you must but i actually think that the caveat here and the challenge is they've got a

good income and that's not a high debt and so to your point i'm leaning more to your side no i think you're right i think it's actually about challenging and going the quicker we do that the quicker we start on that and then you know speak to ivf providers about cash flowing bits and so you might be able to pay as you go so you don't need to take credit on but you might not have to save up let's say a cycle is costing five thousand i don't know but save your cycle is costing five thousand i don't know but say if your cycle is costing five thousand um then you also you don't necessarily need to save up the five you might pay a thousand a month and in your budget there should be a thousand a month so however much you want it will determine how tight you go on your budget um because usually we tell we get a lot of people writing in where they're

like oh i'm um having a baby's too expensive. And I don't know if they need IVF or not. I don't think the last particular dilemma ever went into that. But at the same time, like, I know how expensive it is. So at the same time, I was trying for a baby. We need to be saving up for hosting that baby. Hosting the baby in a house. Welcome to our family of our own.

Do you know what I mean? And then childcare is really expensive so for me clean slate because not only are you going to pay for IVF

you're going to have to pay to someone's going to have to take leave it's expensive to have a baby all the things that come with it and then you've got to save up for childcare

which is really expensive as well there's a lot of costs coming your way so flex that muscle of paying debt off I was gonna say once you like I feel like you could be a bit more aggressive with paying off your debt like it's like right we need this done like yeah hey get it done you want to get sick of the debt

and like you'll kind of prove to yourself how much you can yeah put away every month towards that and then go into the same mentality if that was yeah so exciting though yeah i did see this dilemma drop in and i try not to read them and send them to loose because i'm in the fresh desk you're like i've got a problem with the app it'll be me that picks it up hey um but that one dropped in and i saw the title and i was like i'm gonna love this one i sent it to lucy i didn't read it so we'll make sure we go back to you tell us what you do yes updates are required our community fall out with us i will be following up with you what you're up to what happened with the lady and the cat the desperate to know please tell us your updates okay community win all my consumer debt will be paid off by january put this in because i'm hoping that she's debt

free by now yes yeah um which is exactly two years since i started using financial i've paid off exactly i'm gonna struggle to read this number not a number's got trillions 45,086 pounds and 35p did I read that right oh my god oh my god two years in two years what a flex oh my gosh incredible so this is where like we should be so proud of ourselves well done, and for you guys listening at home, like if you've ever recommended this podcast to someone, if you've ever told someone about the app, it's not an icky thing.

We literally exist to do stuff like that. We have a good laugh and a good joke around and it's a great excuse for a job. Just turn up and chat to you guys. But that's why, because had that person not come across fan and shell where would they be yeah like she could be two years in the opposite direction oh 100 exactly making it worse and we have seen that but then let's think two years forward if she's been able to pay off that what can she say she now grows that like that is that is like life-changing it is insane

well done that's a great one to kick kicks out 2025 yeah if you'd like to send us your win head to the community in the app or email it to the vault at financial.com okay next dilemma just a quick one laura here if you're wanting to take back control of your money, ditch debt, make better decisions and build wealth for the future, the Financial app is for you. With Financial, you can track your spending on the go, hit your money goals faster and create a realistic budget that you can actually stick to. Not to mention, you'll be part of an exclusive money community who share tips, offer support and celebrate your successes along the way. Click the link in the description to download Fan and Shell and start your free trial now.

This is your sign to take control of your money today. Okay, I'm done. Let's go back to the vault. He has a what's mine is mine attitude. My partner and I have been together for seven years, share four kids, including my daughter from a previous relationship and his son from his first marriage. I moved towns for him and invested in his house but he later returned part of the money and said our relationship was over. This has happened multiple times. We're now in a better place but I'm hesitant to bring up money again because I don't want to destabilise things. I left a secure NHS job and built a successful business, earning 5.5k monthly. I cover food, kids' clothes, activities and 1k towards the house. He earns significantly

more, £200,000 a year, pays most bills and has great assets, but we keep our finances separate and I feel like a lodger. I don't have a private pension or investments and the lack of transparency makes me anxious about long-term stability. I've considered two options for my £77,000 of savings. One, reinvesting it into the house. Two, using it to buy a small property either as a rental or for my business. My worry is if things go wrong again I'd need it to buy a home for myself. Ideally I want a marriage with shared financial planning, but his what's mine is mine attitude feels misaligned with my values. I've been in limbo for years, unsure of the best path forward.

Any advice on handling this or planning for my future? I just... This isn't a money question. No, it's not at all. Forget about the maths, the salaries. This is a relationship dilemma through and through. And if I had a big red flag, I would be waving it right now because he's got previous in that he's already...

Threatened the end. Had my money back. Yeah. It's that and the other. Listen, it's a blended family, but there are plenty of blended families that function really well when it comes to money. There's no reason why he should have this mentality.

It could be that he's got previous trust issues from, he's been in a former relationship and they are valid if something's gone wrong and he wants to be mindful of where his money is and how he keeps it. But if you're planning to spend the rest of your life with someone and you can't share your financial plans, a monthly budget, it sounds like a lot of couples do this and I find it really irritating. So sorry if you do this. I'm probably speaking to the majority. We always say

we're weird in our relationships and how we navigate you pay for the food and i'll pay into the mortgage no like why do women always have to pay for the tangible stuff that's like the kids school shoes the kids uniforms arguably of which they sometimes think that they're getting away with a good deal but they're not everything costs loads of money money food costs are really expensive bills are are really expensive. And these men, these men, sorry, are paying into assets that grow in value. Yeah, it's super important. And the women are paying for the fucking school shoes. Then they get the reputation

for being the spender, by the way, as well. Yeah, because they're constantly... Yeah, I am because your child goes through 10 rolls of toilet roll every time they go to the toilet. So yeah, I'm back in B&M and I'm buying bleach for the toilet because you don't know how to clean it yeah big red flag is all I'm going to say and I'm trying to be empathetic because the only thing I'd say is by you writing in this

dilemma and I always say it and I write it to everyone in the community when someone's writing a dilemma they know the answer inside yeah they need validation oh god but don't we always like if we were chatting in a coffee shop or in a bar or like I'm thinking you're like so everyone knows that you meant to agree like you already know so let's try and guess what you want to do and we'll definitely tell you to do that because that's just how women work I think thankfully there I think we need to dissect this a little bit just for people listening to understand the different dynamics like there's financial dynamics relationship dynamics legal dynamic dynamics so they're married um i've seen lots of dilemmas like this when they're not married and do you know like when you're younger i'm not actually

sure if they are married no it says i ideally i want marriage yeah and shared financial planning okay so they're not married she mentions marriage yeah she said i know a marriage oh i want a marriage but sorry i thought they're a marriage so they're not right okay makes it even more long-term partner but they've he's called it off several times yeah but she wants marriage marriage and shared financial planning so she wants you might want marriage but it's not with him I'm just going to say it out wow

boom I think probably not I think I think there's a nods of agreement is all I'm going to say I'll be the bad I'll be bad cop

I'm happy to be bad cop but this is even more important then so if they were married then aside from this really weird you know I'll pay for my stuff you pay for

your stuff and we don't know and I think this is important thing here I'm so if people want to split finances and have their own bank accounts like absolutely fine because there's a way to manage household bills together and family bills and still have like fun money in my own private money and we've talked about that before where the dynamic there is just making sure there's not a disparity. Yeah. Because it's like your partner's like, you know,

then it's resentment. You should want that other person to have as much joy as you have not. This is mine. Exactly. So then that's that bit. And then, you know, at least,

so even if you have, even if we're in this situation and they were married, there's at least rights to assets there, which is not a, make sure you can get after what you deserve and gold digger concepts. It's just not that at all. It's the sacrifice that one person makes, giving up a really stable job with a bloody good pension.

Moving towns, facilitating this rainbow family and whatever, complications come with that. Sacrificing, sacrificing, sacrificing compromise and then be no confidence like of of what happens in the future so sorry that I misread that I think I was like I think I'm mad I was willing you were married so it's actually I'm relieved that you're not because it would have made this 10 times harder yeah and so the and there's there's the big relationship thing here is having someone that threatens to call it off or calls it off and you're just in that limbo and but I speak to so many people and I am in a really happy relationship with children and I can't imagine what it's like where you're stuck and you're about to you feel like you're gonna ruin your kids lives where you

go we're actually mean. Because she's had a previous relationship as well. So that's even harder because you're like, oh, again, it's not worked out. So that must be playing on your mind. I've spoken to people this week where they're keeping a family together. And the idea that you pull the rug and you pop the bubble bursts and you did it. Thankfully, I have seen so many people come out the other side then

where it was the best thing for a period of time. It didn't work out. But basically like in a black and white way, what you're facing is an unstable relationship where you constantly must be on eggshells. You don't have a long-term financial security. So you don't own a home. Yes, you've got savings.

I'm glad you've got savings, but you don't own a home. So you're so you don't own a home yes you've got savings i'm glad you've got savings but you don't own a home so you're not investing in asset that's growing in value and you also don't have a pension which is going to look after you in older age because i've seen so many people relationships end and they've been sacrificing relying on yeah and so and you're not married so you have no right to that anyway. So that's not yours at all. Like, at all. Yeah. At the moment. So she says she's considered two options for her £77,000 worth of savings. Go and buy a house on your own.

And live in it. And live in it. That sounds so harsh. Like, the Lord said, popping the bubble. Actually, there's a puncture in this bubble anyway. Yeah. The trust is not there. No.

The threats are there he sounds quite controlling the way that you've come across with these dangling the carrot threatened to leave and has done this pre he's got previous and i don't i genuinely don't think that there's going to be any sort of change from him or compromise or marriage that then he would share his assets and like i said this might not, it might be problems that he's carrying from a previous relationship or pets, stuff that he's seen with parents or friends. I said pets. I said pets.

Or pets. That lizard was a bastard. And if there's, so, if there's one shot at this working, there's one shot at this working, it's a conversation with your man to say, we, I, like, I want to talk about about money I feel like we can't talk about money I but I have got not myself to look after but I feel like we can't talk about money so I know that to be financially well we should have we're a good emergency savings so

if anything happens to either one of us that we can fall back on something, we should probably have some like protection in place, like income protection, maybe life insurance, like stuff like this. She owns her own business, so I would say she absolutely does need some sort of income protection. And if she saw, so like she can't, yeah, she's relying on, her income is relying on her only.

So da, da, da. And then it makes sense to when we get to retirement age, which is far away, but not too far away, we would like a paid off home so that we don't have to think about somewhere to live. And we would like retirement income. And at the moment with the way we manage money, I can't do that. So can we come up with a way that we manage our money that means I can have a pension and I have ownership in this house? And see what he says. Yeah.

Because you're going to know. It's a good test. If he suddenly goes, I've never thought of it like that. Because sometimes partners do that. Male and female, they go, oh yeah. When the personalities, he could be like, I keep everything and I'm scared to yeah when the personalities you could be like i keep everything and i'm scared yeah yeah like so it could be something for you and he he in his

head might be i've had issues with marriage i'm not doing that but of course you can always live here and of course you can do this of course that what you could go back into him is that's fine i feel like a lodger but i yeah exactly yeah and my she wants stability for her kids just like he wants stability for his it's not an unreasonable request no and so position that is you as a partner going to your long-term partner and saying i don't have this stability with a couple of things in place you don't need marriage for it but you could be i need this is my budget be super transparent with it this is my budget i want to get to a place where i'm not paying for all the things for the kids we just put the the house stuff together and the kids stuff together. And I need enough left over to invest in a pension.

Cause it's top of your list, by the way, absolute top of your list, like is getting a pension and see what he says. Because if he doesn't like that, and if he's difficult about that, that is just telling you what the rest of your life is going to be like. And so then I think it's-

for what marriage could look like. Cause he could react positively, which is, oh, like, like like because you could still give him his freedom but engineer a situation where it's more equal and you're doing you're taking the things that you want to tick off and in that scenario and if you can get that sorted then i would say invest in the house with it if he goes yeah yeah come on the mortgage put your savings into the house make sure you've got emergency savings and start investing in a pension regularly and you've taken this is what you want you've got what you want but if you don't get that marriage by the way will give you rights to things so it will get easier financially but his money personality or his

personality is not going to change as a result of marriage there's no like miraculous thing that happens the minute you say i do whereby he'll be like okay we're gonna split everything that won't happen yes you might get rights to certain things legally but it's not going to change what i think are fundamental issues with your relationship and his behaviors yeah because and so that the message isn't from us oh like yeah try and convince him to get married because you'll get you get equal rights it will be harder because yeah it will then it that will be expensive and that's 77 grand that you've got saved up as your what i would call a nest egg and emergency fund will be spent on legal fees so really think

carefully in the community if you wrote this in the community i'm telling you now how many women who've been through the other side of it, I think. Who wish someone like them could tell you the advice because they've been through it. They'll be all over this like a rash. What really pisses me off about scenarios, oh God, how long have I got about this, that pisses me off about scenarios like this,

but the marriage thing, like so many marriages don't work out. And so, and lots of people can get burned by a previous marriage um but but in defense of the storylines of women for years which is you're marrying for money like we dispel a lot of that because the sacrifice that goes on that that the facts tell us the gender pay gap the gender pension gap we know women suffer um financially in a relationship and just for being just for being feel but because but the other the sacrifices the moving the lower pay the child care everything adds up to being screwed over but what annoys me even more is at

least why the law does that why the law says when you get married it's a partnership is because it's factoring in this so it's factoring in this like protection usually for the female so for once there's a establishment that is put in place that protects for when this would happen for when a relationship breaks down and at different points people have built up different assets and they've usually had family so there's usually children to look after that it can protect this equal division of assets. What pisses me off is these scenarios, these living arrangements where typically a man would say, I don't want to get married. We don't need to get married. We don't need to get married.

That's just going to spoil it. They, what they end up getting is they get the benefit of the marriage. They get the sacrifice of the woman taking all the pay job. They get the childcare. They get the childcare care they get the life admin they get everything but the woman doesn't get the protection so it's not even about the fucking party and the dress and the day and stuff that this is a such a convenient situation for them and so it annoys me because what you don't want to then say is get married and it fixed it because it won't because the relationship isn't good.

Especially when you've got that backstory. The fact that she gave the context is really important, because she could just be saying, we're a blended family, and we'd be like, well, marriage are actually, if you go to spend the rest of your life together, marriage are actually a result of these issues.

You're already married, just do the legal bit. You're living as married. And this is what I don't like, when people aren't getting the legal benefits of marriage, both male and female, by the way, not just one way. And can you put, you'll know more than me as being an ex-lawyer,

certain protections in place where you don't have to get married, but you can have legal rights around finances. So you can have a civil partnership, which is really weird because it's a marriage. It's literally a marriage just without the fancy stuff. So there's that. But there's also like there's things that they can put in place like they could navigate this for example with um because what she's not saying is like i wouldn't be entitled to anything if you die no she's never mentioned and i want more of

his income but but if they um if they jointly owned the home properly yes and so you can do that in a tenants in common way which is quite. But what it means is you own half each and that also protects your children, but also the child that you don't have with him. So she could buy into the home. They own it jointly as an asset. And they could even, if he was as difficult to do this, he could protect what he's put in so far.

And they start from now. And it sounds like she would like the offer that as well. She's not even saying I want half the house, but she's already mentally by the way saying I need another house in case this goes to shit. Yeah, exactly. She's said that,

not us. But there's ways that people can document financial protections without marriage. It doesn't have to be the answer but for example, one of the things she's asking for is a better split of bills

so that she can invest in a pension. She's not got a pension she's saying and I'm saying okay, the answer to that is pay less into the central bit. So what she needs is him to pay more so that she could not go spend more, that she can go invest it. So there's ways of building this up quite rightly without the marriage thing. The marriage is a thing. But what I would say is

he's getting the benefit of the marriage now. Absolute benefit. And she needs to start taking a bit of control. So we've got a shopping list for you is have that session with him, but you do need to be investing in a property that grows in value because you have, I mean, have it, make sure that's making money at the same time, but you should be part of, if you own a home, if he owns a home, you should be owning that home with him, or you should own your own. I wouldn't get into rentals, right? That's not the answer to this. Buying a property for your business or buying a get into rentals right that's not the answer to this buying a property for your business or buying a property to rent out is extra headache you don't

need that right now so either that money should be making money in an account as best it can uh tax-free where possible putting something to a pension maybe i don't i think it is i think she's gonna i think she's gonna work out i think she needs to buy a house i would buy that i would buy a house but that but i think she buys a house if this relationship falls down so i think for now hold it hold your nerve it's buying your patience but don't invest it yet you need access to it you need access to it don't start that account where you can't get access to it don't walk it away but get invested at the same time and please not because it's juicy it is juicy obviously like we've been on a good chat about it and you obviously needed help with it we want to know

how you get on publicly or privately yeah and if anyone else is going through something similar chat to us about it and drop it in the community because i'm telling you the stories that come out of there and the women that have gone through these lived experiences like we haven't it's easy for me to say oh red flag just leave him i'm not saying that but i can guarantee that conversation that we just spoke about i've got an idea of how that's going to go just because of how the context that you've given about how he manages relationship and how he views shared ownership and things and whatnot there's a potential for this to work out yeah let's see how he reacts to the money chat i know i think i was just starting to say this before but when you're a kid and like you need to tell your mom something and it like something you've done at school or it might be

like i don't know like it's just you're broken yeah the amount of conversations i've had to have with my dad and i was like oh dad i've broke my phone i've lost my phone yes so all of this imagine that feeling where like i've i don't think i've had that feeling with my partner where I have to tell them something. I can imagine, you know, it's going to be difficult. And so there are ways to position it, which isn't as aggressive, not aggressive, but as like stressful. It's more, you are going to have to have,

you are going to have to bite the bullet. You're going to have to hover around the fridge and go, can we have a chat? Can I have a chat? Like no one likes a chat, do they? It's like the fire pit on love island blame us be like i listen to this podcast that's what we do tell everyone blame us okay any final words i'd like a follow-up on that one yeah only because i feel like like laura said it's you know it's great for the pod to discuss and chat and whatever but we genuinely do care yeah about what happens with

this dilemma so if you need any help we can put you in touch with people you know we're not can't give advice like official advice but we can point you in the right direction of people that can so let us know that's all for this episode the vault is now closed just a quick disclaimer the vault is just a chat on life and money topics we are not giving financial advice