The Vault with Financielle - “Do I Stay in a Toxic Job for a Big Payoff?” | The Vault Episode 78

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Send us a text“The person who earns less shouldn’t automatically do more housework” - we unpack this week’s controversial opinion, then dive into your dilemmas:💸 ”Do I Stay in a Toxic Job for a Big Payoff?”💸 ”How much should I really have in my emergency savings?”Got a money win or (totally anonymous) dilemma? Share it via the Financielle app community or email [e-mail] 💌You’re not alone in figuring this stuff out. Get honest, helpful reads at financielle.com 💖💸Connect with our Partners🐝 Consolidate your pensions with PensionBee (capital at risk)🫶 Protect yourself and loved ones with our friends at Lifesearch✍ Write a will that is tailored to you with Octopus Legacy🏡 Meet our Financielle approved Mortgage Brokers💸 Commission-free investing* with Trading 212 (capital at risk)🛒 Cashback on your shopping with Jam Doughnut (use code FINC)*The above are tracked links, which tells our partners we sent you and may in future result in a payment or benefit to our site.The Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

Welcome to The Vault with Financial Health. This is a safe space where we talk all things, life and money, and no topics are off limits. Howdy? Howdy? Including who pays for your butter. Yes. Well, we have just had a pre-pod butter chat. We should have waited because it would have been...

Gold. Gold? Kerry gold? Oh, yeah? Well, I don't buy... Well, we bought Liddle. So Neil wanted to highlight to you that he sourced. a very good little butter

with salt granules in it like added salt and it's delicious and he got a really nice sourdough for multi-market the other day and I could have just continue to slice slice and spread the whole time

it was absolutely gorgeous we were talking last night about Ava played rugby last night so we were chatting and my auntie said your mum did a great France shop the other day like what was a great France shop

but we every summer could spend a holiday in France where we drive, we take our own food. We've got two, like, stay in two different houses and mum's, like, super organised with it. Like, this is stuff for the kids and this is stuff for breakfast. And so we do do a top-up shop when we're there, obviously, but we take a lot. So we, she takes it.

We do nothing. But the best part of the France food is the pantry raffle at the end. Oh. Because it's all left over, or pantry food bank in the nicest way. Like, we, she basically divides up for us, not for her, the stuff that. has left. Sometimes she, I can't, I'm trying to think what she, she, there's always one thing where she's like, well, I'm taking that. But then, I can't remember what it is. Can you film it this yet? Yeah, it's like a raffle. And sometimes you have to like, say why you should have something.

Yeah, you do, you have to pitch. I would like that because, like, sometimes it's like a really good balsamette vinegar or it could have been. Cubbered staples, you'll have them for a while. Really good crisps. So, but what she goes, she goes, you've both got crisps. Yeah. You've both got butter. You've both got olive oil. The kids, you've got Oreos. You've, because I know you Teddy, you like them. those, Alba, you like party rings are there for you. Like, she knows what everyone wants. And we all stand in the kitchen.

We've all got a cool bag or whatever. It's an event. Oh my God, me I've got this. Yeah. Coming up next. Yeah. You don't really like them. You don't really like them.

So I'm taking them. Honestly, and we just don't need to do a food shop for weeks. Yeah. It's really savvy. Yeah, it is. So I hope she did well. And I hope she overbought like, show us does. Because then we can take it all home and fill our cupboards with it.

I'll send us stuff. This looks good. No, in full. well no one's going to eat it, but we can pocket it around the back. Talking of raffles, our local, like, Legion, do a, does a meat raffle? It is a thing place. A meat raffle. Lucy's like, the ex-vegan, he's like, sorry, I want to go to that. Now, do they're going to do that individual pieces, or you don't, it's not a winner-take-off, isn't it?

Is it like big? I think it's like, ham, a leg of lamb. T-blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's all like, they put it on. the pool tables the pool tables got a cover and it's in the middle and you buy tickets Gavin like sweating on the snooker table I thought it was a joke when the boy said someone win like I don't know if you go in for a drink like if you want to go into play a pool or yeah the lads went and they were like the meat raffle was on and I was like oh oh no buy a

strip like oh what am I I'm thinking of auction auction auction got last week's anybody want to revive no it's a raffle no it's a raffle Oh. So you would just... What was it? You were if you're like, oh, I don't even eat pork. Just give it back. Isn't it just like, um, too good to go?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't want anything. I just wanted the thrill. Have you ever landed on a good, too good to go? Yes. Go on. Jondty goat where we went the other week. Oh, go on.

What did you get? It was four pounds and I got five pastries, which normally are like three pound 50 each. Because they're massive as well. I had a chocolate pasta, a kind of chocolate from there. They were like... Yeah, and they're good. They're like...

I had the cinnamon bun and it was huge. It was like... massive. Yeah. So I put them all in the freezer. You're so savvy. I would eat them all there and then. I'd be like, these are going to go off. So everyone, everyone, Neil, me and you, two each. I've never done a too good to go. I, oh, they're so fun. I'm so nervous. Do you remember when you got, you were really disappointed with your girls one? Yeah, I got like the beetroot salad. What? Like a glue and free sourdough that was like a rock. We're like, I'm sorry. Yeah, and it was seven pounds, which is expensive. We've also had,

Do you know the American pizza slice? Yes. We've had one from there, and that was really good. We've got like five slices of pizza for like three pounds. Oh, that's good. We should try. We should do it as an experiment even. It's content. Good for the content.

I don't know what we would get in our village. God. Co-op. Meat raffle. Seams bruce. They won't even do it. Okay, today's controversial opinion is, the person who earns less shouldn't automatically do more.

work. God, no, they shouldn't. I've heard this before. So one of Neil's friends back in the day when he used to play rugby, his friend made a comment that was, well, I think to be, so, this is a little bit different because he had a full-time job

and then, like, some of our weird and wonderful friends that like to continue playing rugby into their elder years, I'm talking, like mid-thirties, so it's not elder, but like, it's funny because they all started when they were like 12 and they're still going strong and going to work with like black eyes and broken legs and stuff. He was an electrician as well, and I think he made some sort of comment like,

well, I ring in, you know, I've got two jobs, like his choice, by the way, that he played the extra rub and stuff. And I'm tired. Yeah. So she needs to, it was like she wasn't there and we were having this conversation. So she, obviously, I told her she needs to like pick up the slack on the housework type thing. And I was just 10 years younger then probably, whereas now I think I'd be like, I'm sorry. God, can you imagine, Holly.

But it was around the money rather than the physical element of his job. he was like so she wasn't that she was tired it is i bring all this so she should to i contribute more financially so she needs to pick up slack with the housework that definitely was the conversation do you think um if it was a time thing that the person that isn't working two jobs and has more time should contribute more yeah i do from a time perspective it's not financially because that's a lot out of our control yeah It's like so be my slave. Yeah.

Yeah. You're not bringing the money so do the work for free. Yeah. But I think a time one, like you said, we're talking about shifts and another podcast

that must be so difficult. If you're a nurse, you're on your feet all day, you're looking after everybody else, you're cleaning up after everybody else. And I think if you're a cleaner, I have a cleaner, there's two ladies that come.

They are incredible. The woman is amazing. She tells me what time she gets up in the morning, like 5.30 a.m. She goes for a swim before she starts work. She does her cleaning job. she finishes. Can you imagine then going home and then having to, your family not looking after the house and you having to mentally go? Carry the weight of it, I think is the point, isn't it?

Am I expected to then the physical labour of the job that I've done all day and they have to go and do it again? Like you would hope that your family would chip in. So when people are pressed for time, if they work longer hours, longer days, more days than the other person, I do think that the person has to pick up the slack a little bit. And I would do the same. If I work part-time and Neil at full-time, I would obviously like, well, obviously I'm going to do more of the housework because I've got more time. Yeah, exactly, you've got more time to do it. Not I should or whatever.

I've practically got more time. It plays into gender roles if you're in love really like a heterosexual relationship, doesn't it about? Because it's usually the women that's part time. It's usually the one of the interesting thing is in this day and age, women generally will have the same sort of like career as a man and we're still as a society picking up the slack. Like not in my house.

We are genuinely 50 50 sometimes it even nil. We are and I'll does more so we're not 55. actually, I like... But maybe we are in other ways that we just don't realize in the typical way. I bring the character energy and the fun thing.

Yeah, and personality higher. I'm definitely not the chef. Put it that way. We know this. This is... It is interesting when you meet other couples and or... I'm so triggered when other people are.

Comments are made and you... You know, like... I see memes on Instagram about this all the time, which is like... God, these men do men. I just wish they'd pull the weight and like, God, Carl would say that about me to express.

I wish these wives pick up. I think Carl likes it, though. There's a difference. But sometimes we talk about weaponising competence with men where they're just like they've never. I don't know to put the dishwasher on. Like one of our friends or husband does never put the washing machine on ever. And I'm like, that is weaponised incompetence.

That man goes out to work every day. Has a really senior job. Looks after a lot of people. Works in a complex job. He has to be intelligent. You're telling me he can't, he won't put the washing machine on. that you never thought I will learn

I will learn you just ask someone you do it once I only how did I learn I can't even remember so whoever you're talking about I am him

my husband's told me not to because I ruined but I'll have a good go I'll swizzle a little I mean I do think they could be made a bit more simple

if Carl was away for a week you'd have to just get on crack on but I hope but wait until the wife gets back from the trip

yeah that happened to a friend she went on a trip and the lad and dad were at home and literally not one wash was put on the dishwasher hadn't been put on there was crap everywhere like that's just what that is weaponizing competence is a massive difference yeah yeah no definitely and I think that it's um it's both if you're in a couple you just it's your job to keep

the home yeah it's both your jobs to to maintain it to make it clean to make it tidy in the 50s women aren't sat at home anymore waiting for husbands to come home from where we've got shit to do like no no no I feel like this new generation I fall at least say you're a new generation I run a tight ship on my home

Does Alex contribute to said tight ship though Yeah It's not you running the ship As in No I do run it But I'm a control freak And would rather do that But do you

The mental load But you delegate Yeah I delegate So you're not Because that's another thing It's carrying the mental load I do carry the mental load But I don't mind that

Right Because I'd rather She's just shown us a list Can you read out your list that you set out before you even set out to come to work today. What's your list? Just minute by minute planning. Go on. I don't need to hear the list. You're going to read the full list? Yeah, I want it. Unsensitive. Okay. Tuesday pod morning. 5.30 a.m. wake up, shower and shave ankles. Show your ankles. Shankles. Congo past. Wow. Pink old hair, makeup, pack bag.

Uber. Train. I love that you had to write, get a train to work. Like, you weren't going to if it's not on the list. I'm just going to sit there. Some of our favourite chats are about the lists that you have for like, I've planned a really chill weekend. Okay, what time does the chill start? What's needed? Lucy's chill weekend is alarm, 5.30.

Go downstairs, 6 a.m. Coffee. Make coffee. Yeah. 6.30. Put YouTube on. Behind schedule. Watch for these three YouTube videos.

Seven. Go to the gym. Literally is. How do you live? She's described my weekend. Yeah, I know. She's like, And they will have an emoji on.

Yeah, she'll be an ocean planner for it. You romanticise. Plans. Life admin. Well, because when I plan things, it's like I get to live them twice. Because I'm like, excited planning it. I don't want to shave my ankles twice. You're looking for shaving once.

When I plan things, I get to live them twice. Like, if I've got a nice relaxing weekend, I'm like, oh, what's that going to be like? Yeah, that's really good. I'm excited for that now. Whereas if I plan a relaxing weekend, it's... That. Well, it's not. I don't think I've ever sat still more than 20 minutes.

But yeah, I like, I personally like to carry... For me, it's not like a mental load. It's like... A joy. I need that to be solved in my head. So this is what you can do. Can Alex send suggestions if you've got an itinerary? I mean, he doesn't really have suggestions about house queen and stuff.

Well, no, but like about life itinerary, like, oh, we're going to go. Okay, he's allowed. He'll accept. They'll be considered. And then dismiss, no. I was about to say. Didn't we get considered. Thank you for your feedback.

But we do have very set jobs. And we are actually quite rigid in our jobs. Can you give me a little flavor? Like blue and pink jobs. I hear that debate and it's like, oh, I do give the blue job to Neil. I'm like, that's a blue job. And he's like, we are unequal. I'm like, shut up.

On my terms, we're equal. Sometimes there is and sometimes it's not. And when it's a case of emptying the bin or wiping one of his bum, it's a blue job. Okay. And I still gave birth to these two children. He's like, you can't? And I'm like, I'm doing it. Did you?

Yeah, bins. I don't wash dishes. Oh. Also, we've got a dishwasher, but we've never turned it on. You are psychotic. It's confirmed. You don't want what? I don't like.

Also, all of our like plates and stuff, I've bought them all in. individually. A lot of them are hand-washed only. She's curated. And Alex would just chuck everything in. Yeah. And I'm like, I want this specific snack. I want this specific bowl readily available for me. I don't want it to be hanging around in the dishwasher.

I can't believe you don't use a dishwash. Can I tell you how many things I've broken by hand-washing them? Yeah, and we've got a ceramic sim. Yeah, so it's dangerous. But it's dangerous. Dangerous out there. The crockery cut. You've got it.

know how she likes a TK.K. Max crockery, like, whole. But, like, what you were just saying about the guy who didn't do any washing until his wife came home, sometimes I'd do that. Like, if Alex is away for, like, the night, I'll leave, like, plates in the sink. You're allowed to, but he's not. No, but my argument is it, like, my rigid job is, like, washing clothes, like, sorting all that out. Don't get involved. Like, I've got a plan for it. And I'm like, I don't wear your clothes, but I still wash them. so like you can wash my plate

so you're treating a plate like the oh my god like the washing basket so like Alex went away for three weeks no I did then oh right obviously I did then that I've never ever heard

a dirty plate being treated like the top in the washing but if it makes sense it's the same it's an item that's dirty that needs to be cleaned my mom and dad

have this thing where like my dad does his own ironing and my mum does her own did it yeah the mind woman on too She walked in one day and I went,

oh, my dad was signing. I don't think I've ever seen my dialing in his life. And mum was like, yeah, he does his own. I was like, why? No idea. People have such funny, when you delve into stuff. Oh, God, yeah. Like, I want Neil to do stuff, but if he does it,

it's not my way, I'm like, yeah, that's what. He's like, I can't win. I'm like, I know. And then there is the, like, Carl has drew a cell bunny, like his energy. He's always thinking he's always on the go. and he can't sit still, cannot possibly sit still. I like sit still.

So some people might call me a lazy bitch. Fine. I embrace that some days, but also we work very hard and we're very busy and we're constantly doing stuff. So sometimes I sit there and he'll come in from work and I'll be satcheling on the couch with the kids and we'll be playing or we'll be doing something like fun.

And then he walks straight in and walked straight to the, he's your favourite room, which is the utility room. That's his quarters, his bedroom quarters. And then it's like cranking. thinking they're like with the dishwasher and I'm like come play with us and he's like in a minute in a minute it's like that's me and I sit there and I go I bet he's thinking she's fucking sat there but I go I'm playing with the kids we're having fun I heard a comment the other day I was like do remember on that like two Saturdays ago where you did nothing all

day and he was like are you kidding I was like I'm joking kind of he was like what do you mean I do loads I was like I know but it was a day where I was Jerusalem bunny so I'll get a thing where I can't switch off and I'll be like like, I need to enter that cupboard. I need to get up in the loft and go for all the Christmas decorations and get rid of half of them. I'll just have an itch and an impulse to do it. And if the other person's not on the ride, it's annoying.

Yeah. But if they get on the ride and they're not doing... You're like, get off. You're not doing it properly. Yeah. Sometimes there's no winning. But I do think women have set themselves up for a fall with taking too much on because they want it done a certain way.

And then you put the person off from helping and there's a lot to unpick. Yeah. And I think ultimately, like, you know, don't take relationship advice. from us necessarily. We usually tell you to end your relationship. But I think the give and take things quite important. And so if you have a partner, like I said, who is not about bringing the money in, but doing a lot of the leg work in terms of time and operations, yeah, then switch it round. And that might change week by week. So it might be like, you know, if you've worked away for two weeks, so Alex really recently went away and let's pretend you have three kids and

it was all chaos, and you were having to take on a lot, then he may be tired from his work trip, he may be jet-lacked. You're not getting on the sofa and I'm going to chill. I want, that you're tagging in and you know, you give a bit back because, you know, someone's had to step up. Yeah. It's hard for everyone in that situation. There's no winners in that, in that situation because the person that's been left with the kids while the person's been away is absolutely and fed up and irritated with the noise of everything. The other person just wants to chill because they've been travelling and they've been working it and they want to comfort their own help.

There's no winners. You know, we did that last night actually because I'd been away for the weekend with Al Bain. It was very, very full on and intense and I was absolutely knackard, but Carl had been back and watching the other two kids and Ali had a really bad night's sleep last night. He was waking up a lot

and every time he woke up, he was crying and it's not like him at all because he sleeps really well normally. And to be fair, I'm a lot of his sleeping house where I would usually crack up and get on anyway. But even more so I did because I couldn't be like, I'm really tight, babe, could you?

Because I've had a really long weekend with my one child and you've had him. He's had the toddler. It's a different busy weekend for you though. Do you know, like, it's not comparable? Yeah, but you have to step up at it. But I think it's that even the fact that you did in the morning. He thanked me. He said, thank you.

I appreciate you. You did 95% of the last night. I was like, 99, but. Anyway, I think we've done that one today. Sorry, everyone. But I hope that our ramble helped in some way. I hope now you're excited to plan, like, to relax, like Lucy does. I just change my notes. Mine are just like shopping lists.

Mine are shopping lists. Same one every week as well, but I always create a new one. Oh, I would love to know people's notes. Oh my God. You don't want to know mine. I do want to know Lucy's, so. You'd need therapy going in mine. You'd think that I'm mental. We'd already do.

So that's fine. Okay, time for our first dilemma. Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry, guys. Where are we? Do I stay in a toxic job for a big thing? Pay off. Long time fan here and I'd love fan. Stan. I feel like we're celebrities on a stage. Got no offense. Long time fan here and I'd love your help with a dilemma that's really been weighing on me.

I'm currently miserable in my job. The company has a great mission and I actually love working at a fast pace, but this is a whole different level. It's chaotic, constantly reactive and I'm doing the workload of two people. I know I'm good at what I do, but I can feel the quality of my work slipping because I'm being stretched too thin. To make things worse, my head of department, my manager's manager, is really difficult, constantly moving goalposts and to be honest, acting like a bit of a bully. My resilience has dropped to zero and I cry most weeks. It's properly taking a toll on me. Here's the catch. In seven to eight months' time, I'm due to receive an equity payout. I don't know the exact figure yet, but it should be enough to pay off my debts, build an emergency fund for both

me and my husband and leave a chunk left over. Basically, it would seriously fast track our entire financial journey. Right now, my husband is juggling two jobs while trying to build a new career. That money would give him the space to go all in on his dream and give us the real sense of security as a family. So I feel completely torn. Do I stay and push through the next seven to eight months in a toxic environment for the sake of our financial future? Or do I walk away, protect my mental health, even if that means potentially sacrificing a huge opportunity. to get ahead. This is a big one.

It is. So lots of people listen to this may know what that is, but if you've not, you can't, lots of people in tech startups a lot of time or startups are. Some big public companies is a little bit different, that you get share schemes and stuff, but if you are in a tech business, sometimes there's an employee incentive scheme and you can earn, basically you shares vest and what it means is every quarter or sometimes every month, it depends on it's set up, might be every year that you stay there. You get rewarded with more of your shares vesting and basically crystallising and there are either options or

their shares. So I don't want to get too much of the detail. But generally, what it means is as you stay, you have the opportunity to create more, like build more shares in your, whether the shares or options until an event. And an event could be a sale. It could be a fundraise. It could be a fundraise and what's called a secondary round where like you can kind of sell those shares and and you can profit from them. Usually it's like an exit. So if the company is going to be bought or if it floats, so you see that a lot of time or the company's going to float and I've got loads of shares. And when it shows, it'll be great. And it's called a golden handcuff for that reason. Because what they do is you keep your talent. If you have built up quite a lot of shares

in a business and if they're giving shares, there's a plan to exit. There's a plan to sell and have that event at some point, then the more, the longer, the bigger that pile is and the bigger potential payout it can be, the harder it's to leave. Like, they do it to keep sacrifice. It's not a nice bonus. It's a, you only get this if you stay kind of bonus. And so that's one point that it can be very conflicting for people because people will stay longer than they have to for that payout. So it can be because it works for both parties because the business gets to keep the people until the events, and then if they leave after that, then at least the events happened and they've got to sort it out. And the employees

incentivise to stay because there's that big payout. The other thing here is the big payout because you shouldn't really know what that's going to be. You can forecast it. So I just want to say that because there's a risk with that as well. Some people go, this could be 100 grand. This could be 100 grand. And it comes down to it. The company goes into liquidation or get sold at an undervalue and suddenly it might be like a 10 grand payout you don't actually know you can there's lots of calculators that the company will sometimes give you and go oh we're sold at this and this is what it would mean they're going to tell you the top that this could possibly be and they're going to push the time as well as in like they're going to go oh it could be in the next

and you know for the fact that's never ever the case but sometimes it's a year after what happens if you go through like a three four month process and then the buyer pulls out and you've got to go find another buyer so the seven to eight month is also nailed on And so I say all those things because it's so uncertain and so unpredictable and valuations are changing and markets are changing and loads of stuff's changing. So have that in mind because if a scenario and this might not be our listener but is so toxic and so difficult, it's sometimes not worth it for that ultimate payout because you've got to weigh in all these likelihoods and all this risk and go at the end of the day, is that going to happen? Or if it doesn't

happen, how would I feel? Or, and you know, my husband's been through this, like, you know, what if I left and my friends are paying off their mortgages and I'm not because I chose to leave. And that's why it's a golden handshake. So apart of that, but I think everyone, if you understand how that works, you understand what that dilemma is that you're like, oh. So the other side to this is in couples, I say you're in different seasons of life. And so her partner is going through juggling some jobs and a career change.

And sometimes one person has to sacrifice during that time and crack on a business. bit and go it's their turn to do the risky thing it's their turn to build out this new career and then when they get settled in that new career that so like you can imagine she can't just go start a business right now let's pretend she wanted to and that's a dilemma yeah she can't because he's over there doing that so sometimes there's a hold on while your partner is doing that so i mean maybe this is a question for you hall but one thing i thought was if that time frame is likely let's say it's a year it's a fast-paced environment she like she likes She doesn't, when she talks about toxic, it's like she's doing more work than she should be.

I would like to think there's a strategy which is managing that at work and not jumping for that. You're pulling the plug, you're pulling the eject button. Whereas actually, is there an alternative? They obviously want you to stay because you've got this incentive with the shares. They wouldn't do that for people that they don't value. So I would take that as a bit of confidence that the company value enough to try and make you stay. So tick, they're not trying to get rid of you. to be shoving you out of back door like you'd have been gone by now.

And so cutthrow, isn't it, in this type of, if you've got a company like this that have got this kind of shared interest in selling the business, it's very competitive and they're trying to get to the finish line. They want to take you with them. So take heed in that and go and speak to, I don't even know. What did she say? It's her line manager's boss, isn't it?

So it's not even like her direct report. It's for me, and I see this, we speak to more women. So our experience is usually skewed by women. So it's not a generalisation. It's just more of experience that women take on a lot at work. They get stuff laid on them. And if you're a people pleaser or if you're a, you know, millennials are worse for this because we've been in that generation.

Just apologise. Every email's like, sorry I didn't get back. Like, have you seen those? Yeah. Jen's, they take the piss out of us. Yeah. And they've got like, or even follow Instagram accounts whereby they reposition every, like they'll get an email and they're like, yeah.

They rewrite it for you. Like it's looking at stuff like that and building confidence. that way. And there's a, for people, like, in my last job, I was really fortunate to work with some very senior and very successful people, especially our external investors. And there was definitely one moment when I, I spotted a pattern where, like, my emails were always long because I was a lawyer by trade. And so there's, like, certain things that you've got to put in place to make sure that you've caveated and you've given full context. But actually, some of it was just the way I was taught and then you just stick with it.

It's been polite. Yeah, yeah, I know. But then the more senior people, especially if they were men, the shorter their email, that less is more. Like it just, they've got this aura about them where they go, my time is precious. I don't need to write chapter and verse. Like, this is, this is, the shore of the response. And then another, one of my bosses was Fab.

And he said to me, you're the one thing that you need to improve on law is the ability to deliver through people. so I would just suck it up and take it on. I would take, yes, yeah, go on the other thing, yeah, I'll do it. I was actually really poor at time management, so I used to think people, things wouldn't take me that longer. Then you go, oh, and you guys, I work with you and you all know that I'm rubbish at this as well, which is, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'll be fine, and you go, that took a lot longer.

I'm still years on, cannot fix that. He said, you need to deliver through other people. Ironically, when I left that job and started Finchelle, two people replaced me. In fact, I think they got three at one point. So I was absolutely carrying and creaking. but I didn't have either the confidence or the ability to structure a business case

which said this is not right this is how it should be structured you need to put more budget into this area literally the minute I left someone came in and went no there should be two to three people and so then when I reflect on that when I think about what our person our fan, our lovely fan

has written there could be a possibility that she's falling into the trap which is yes I'll take on yes I'll take on and doesn't push back back. I love the way people are using chat GPT at the moment, right? Which is, um, this is the situation. I'd love to put it. I might even do this, put this down I'm doing it. I didn't know. I did like a complaint letter and put it in and I was like

gave a bit of background. So I, yeah, this is this. How would a male answer or push back in this scenario or how would a ambitious male or how are an ambitious person? Let's take the agenda out of it. Because, um, because I want to be successful. And I want it. And I want to less toxic. How can I structure these conversations, which is with empathy and with like support, but kind of going, I'm not doing the job of two people anymore. When I got chat GPT to do my like complaint or raise a concern or something, I took the emotion out of it. So I was like happier to send it. Because I hadn't sat there like, like I would have done like, this person. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you know what I mean? We're like pouring your emotion and you're

like agonizing over like phrase and sentence and like, well, they take this the wrong way. I just put into chat GPT and this is where AI is perfect and comes in, it takes the emotion away. Yeah. So you can be a keyboard warrior in this respect and just go, I want to highlight some concerns and I'm going to come to you with solutions because the one thing that you can't do is just complain. Because if you're a lie manager and your people that work for you are just complaining that they're busy, they're tired, this person's not pulling the weight, you're not giving that

person solutions. If you're busy, think how busy a line manager possibly is and it's not the case for everybody. Yeah. But my own line manager, like I would always try and go with solutions rather than just winging. Like, she's busy. She's tired. Just like me. You need to go. And it can't always be to hire two more people because it just doesn't fly. But it doesn't fly. And I used to say this to Carl and his last job. Like he, his paternity was one of the best things that he went through actually because he's Mr. Perfectionist. So his, his 80% was better than everyone else's 100. And he'd still not feel good enough. It's still not good enough. I need to do this. I need to do this. He'd work around the clock. and then when he took time off for shared parental leave properly and he had like a good eight week block at one point

and then he went back and had another eight week and it lived they survived without him and not that they didn't miss him because that's wrong because he was a massive asset but it didn't fall over and the company is a thing it's not a person it's not a family you don't owe it anything it's a commercial venture and they will literally get rid of you one day like with just not thought

oh sorry about that thank you forever but this is just business so when he realized he brought it down because he realized that not everyone was giving that effort he was and no one thanked you for it and then even if they thanked you for it that's not like revenue that's not a salary for you that's just a you know that it's just it's happening so what I said to him when you know we'd come home and he'd talk about oh it's like this isn't good enough this isn't good enough they're not doing this and I'm like they'll have to bleed then so choose where you bleed like do you want to believe like do you want to believe like you're from your arm and your neck or do you want to have a paper cut like all and that's

a bit of an insatuation but how it's not your problem to solve that all this work needs doing and you need to do it all pick the most important stuff coming with a solution which is this is I'm this is too much work like I'm doing it but one it's not fair but two I can't do it all practically so I think these these look like to be the most strategically important things for the business I think this this this stuff could be picked up by technology I I think this stuff could just be stopped to be done. This stuff can wait and can go on a backlog and we'll get to it at some point. It's not your job to plug the holes in the organisation to stop the bleeding.

They're going to bleed somewhere because if they're not having, if they've not got the right resource for the jobs that need doing, then they're going to leak. Do you know what I mean? There's going to be busy fools. Like Laura said, there could be stuff on that list that you think's a priority where they actually are up in the board room. They could not give a shit.

And if they'd seen your list of things that are in your brain, they might go, why are worried about that? Let's take it off the list. I think that's a really practical solution for anybody listening, not just for this person with the dilemma. If you are stretched, if you are busy, if you feel like you're a busy fool, if people aren't pulling the weight

to create that list and create a traffic light system and say, I think this is the stuff that's a priority that we need to work on. I'm happy to head up. This is the stuff I'm going to park for now and this stuff needs to be resourced out. Can you help me resource out these bits? Yeah.

You'll just come across so much more professional than just sit in there and I've seen it before and I've sat in the meetings where people just whinge and people then don't respect that person. person because you just think they're a winger. And they might be working really hard, but they're not putting the case across popular. And like I said, I think there's an art form to it. And I think sometimes I, you know, you then, if you think about it from the company's perspective, the regressive are going towards an exit, which will make people, hopefully a lot of money

or a transaction. And you all want the same thing. Yeah. So what you need to do is manage stress levels and workload during that. So having that practical conversation. So having suggestions, but saying, what do you think? Yeah. What do you think, actually, suddenly they have to put their foot in your shoes and they go oh and so it's not a i'm busy i've got too much on this is too stressful um because in your in the dilemma there's not much about the toxicity of people no because that's a very different different thing and and that you don't solve that with workload i think the my manager's not great yeah head of department acting like a little bit of a bully she says oh yeah sorry i'd like i'm way into but that's how her resilience has dropped to zero

and she cries most weeks. I hate that. I've been in that position. I left a job, literally. I just... I kept crying. I kept crying all the time. I was so emotional.

And then I came to my dad's one... And my dad's one day after work and my dad literally just said, leave. And I was like, I can't leave. I've got all this one's so good. He was like, you'll find a way. We'll make it work.

You're going to leave today. And I was just like... And the weight lifted off my shoulder. Yes, I had another stress because I was like, I have a home with Neil and I'm going to go and tell him that I'm leaving my job and it's up to him but I was damn determined that I'd rather find another job and I would take any job I would I was like I'll go and do anything to get some cash in to help pay for

this mortgage and whatever then go back and do that so I have my full I have you know full empathy with that so so on that on that basis like firstly you may find yourself more resilient if you're not overworked so hopefully for yourself and anyone listening there was a little bit of value in the chat on how to manage when you're doing too much. The people one's really, really difficult. I think it's having allies wider than this particular line manager. Seeing if you can seek common ground over coffees and stuff and share with them.

You know, I feel like I'm being treated in a particular way. Or, you know, I do, get them on the side. Get them all. It's the easy. Keep your enemies close and keep your friends close. friends close, enemies closer. Like, I do believe that you can... Find a common ground.

Yeah. Most of the time, especially when people suddenly, if you shared actually how someone made you feel, most people go, would like, we shocked a little bit and not realize that they've... Yeah, well,

you've got some that would then do the opposite, would push back, whereas I think just pretending like nothing's wrong and then trying to, like, should we grab a coffee? I want to talk to you about, you know, my ambitions within the company, while like, get them on side.

It's like a fake it till you make it. I've seen that happen quite a lot. If you've got your head down, with a timeline, like up to a year or whatever, and you can make it work, get that person on side, even if you don't mean it, even if you're being too-faced about it, as in you actually inside, you're like,

oh, I hate this person, but it's much better to have them on side than have them as your enemy, fake it till you make it. And actually, what I like about that haul is, I think there's two phases to this. I definitely think the workload things should be tackled about. There's two phases to the toxicity problem. One is that try, can you,

solve that relationship issue, whether it's through faking it, whether it's through navigating it through a different way, whether it's through formal complaints, whatever it is, and give yourself a time frame whilst managing your mental health. And then if that's not solvable

and if it doesn't get any better, only you can make this decision and obviously we're supporting you with the things to think about. You're putting a price on your health. And so at some point, that's when you have to be really careful about what potential money, when,

what return you actually do that. because if you put yourself through all that and actually you could have left for a bigger salary and more shares and a sign on bonus and I've seen that done in this space by the way make it up in other ways you know if if you can deliver for another competitor or for a company and you go

oh I'm going to be walking away from a potential this will go whatever gave you a sign on bonus literally seen that happen so it's not the only option because imagine if you go through 12, 20 months of absolute hell and the shares don't materialise it's risky it's so risky these payoffs don't come off when they do great but that it's high risk so imagine if you like went through all that time it didn't come off anyway or if it did it was like oh I've got a nice

little payment and you're like shit for 10 grand 20 grand even tax taxed taxed yeah make sure you're thinking about that as well yeah yeah that number will yeah know what the net like know what you're walking away with impact would be um tell us if we helped and come back and tell us what you did. Unhinged answers there, I'm sure. Some people are like, don't do that. Yeah. And if you're like, make friends with the bully, take them out of dinner.

If you're a HR professional and you think what we said was wrong, fast forward. No, like, tell us and we'll publicly share it. Yeah, the advice. The HR advice was not to do that. Heavily caveated to hell, but unhinged dancers all the way. Okay, time for a community win. My first financial month, month, mom, mom. financial month. My first financial month is complete. It's payday today so my second financial

budget and I'm proud of what I've achieved in my first month. I go to Berlin in a couple of weeks and now my spending money and dog sitter is fully covered. My cat's vaccination is due this month also now covered. I've got sinking funds going for Christmas, birthday presents, etc. Financial you have changed my life for the better and I can't wait to see what this month brings. Oh, I love that. That's amazing. That's a proper financial month because she's got all those sinking funds. You know she's nailed it. I mean, listen. and pets, we keep talking about the pets and keep on pets. Pets are the family members.

Yeah, they're important. We need to make sure we've got all our cost started. I wonder if she's going to go to what's that place in Berlin to the club. Oh, we can't get in. Oh, yeah, what's it called? What's it called? What's it called?

front of the thing and he was like you got to jump on this one and then this one and then like in Harry Potter something a lot of the rings. Yeah they're like lasers are coming out and they're like shoo! And then like pull this lever down and then do what would you wear? You have to wear black but you're not meant to try too hard. Not much makeup. Not much makeup. And haven't you got to go like it's me? It's me. It's me. No but you be up for breakfast. Yeah morning. Harding makeup. Walking with the coffee. Where's black? Matcher in hand. Yeah. Cool as shit. No, about not anymore. Walk straight.

A bit once, yes, but now. Oh, no. It's too mainstream. Can't have a match. Oh, I would love us all to have a go. I'd love us all to have a go. Yeah, that would be so good. So, true story.

Me and my friend went to Berlin. We were going to watch a gig. I went to Bergheim? I don't say that. Bergheim? Went to Berlin. And then in the hotel, we were going to a gig. We'd book tickets for it.

And we were saying, where is it? To this guy. And he was like, where are you going? We're like, we've got a gig booked here. And he was like, you won't get in. people were like, what? And he was like, we've come from Manchester.

I swear to God I went, we've flown all this way. Like, we've had this book for like eight months. And he was like, you won't get in. He was like,

it's really hard to get in. And he was like, basically looking at, looking us up and down. It wasn't bad kids. It wasn't. I was like, it was like some shoddy little like venue.

You won't get in. And I was like, I'm sorry. I bought tickets. He was like, doesn't matter. He was like, the bouncer don't like they're not. So I turn up to this place, shitting, like,

shaking. Shaking. like a shitting dog because I was like sorry you were still saying shit and you just wanted to be clear it was a dog shake you like a shitting dog

literally it turned up like you're like underage illegal carrying drugs like no she just looks too clean and polished like that did you get in? Yeah easy

yeah you're like is that it seriously this guy was like you won't get in and Lucy was like sorry I was like behind her going what we won't get in

and I was like we float from Manchester, he's like, it doesn't matter. It was like, people travel from all over the world. It's like, you're not getting in. I was like, the anxiety. I was too young and so were you, but there used to be a bar in Wigan called Pemps. It's like folklore.

It's folklore. And it was even a problem to barbara. The dingiest, there was a lady called Barbara that I think used to sit in an old lavandrover. She'd sit in a car outside the venue and tell you if you're walking down the street. And she got, no. That is burqa. My auntie got in all the time.

but people used to it would be like work themselves up because you used to really want to go to this absolute dive but you'd work yourself up like feet sticking to the floor like warm beer

like but it was just that this woman had created like the vibe that you know vibe check like she would watch you from down the street and you're like come on we'll be fine we'll be fine she'd like no

no she used to look you up and down and we used to ask my auntie because she was like girl about the town like did you get in she was like oh me and Barbara yeah she used to meet me all the time And I was like, oh, you're so cool.

Because so many people used to be like, never got in, never got in, ever. How could she consistently refuse? Yeah. Like, as in, it wasn't like one week you get in, one week you didn't. Like, when she card was marked, you could never get in. So, like, what would you do then as a group of friends? Like, you go out of school. You're on the list.

I'll go wait for you in the cabab shop. I think it was a late one. I think it was like a 3 a.m. start for a purpose as well. But, yeah. Oh, the control. Well, that was a diving. from congratulations on your trip to Berlin. She's going to Berlin.

Oh, yeah. She's a week one. You've had a great time. Berlin Wall. Fantastic. Just make sure you know what you're wearing if you're going out. If you'd like to tell us you'll win, head to the community in the app or email it to the vault at financial.com.

Okay. Time for our next dilemma. How much should I really have in my emergency savings? Hi, girls. I became a financial girly at the start of the year and have been slowly making positive changes. I've always been a safer. mainly because of the money stress I experienced growing up, but what I really needed to work on was my mentality around impulse spending.

I now have a 1K emergency fund and various sinking funds for life admin and events. I also have 20K in a cash ISA, which I see as my big emergency fund, plus 13K in a lifetime ISA that I'll one day use for a house deposit. I contribute 12.5% of my workplace pension. I contribute 12.5% to my workplace pension too. I do still have about 1.5k left of an interest-free credit card. And I know what you'll want me to say. To just pay it off now.

But honestly, I'm just scared I'll spend it again. Weirdly, paying it off slowly is keeping me accountable. It annoys me just enough to make sure I don't go back into debt. My spending habit isn't completely cured yet. Here's my question. How much should my large emergency fund actually be? I work in the emergency services so the job is fairly stable. but I've been struggling with some work-related trauma lately and needed some time off.

So I'm aware my job, so I'm aware a job switch might be on the cards in the future. I don't own a home. I live with my partner in his house. We plan to buy together in around five years. I'm not thinking about children right now, but I'm 28 and it's something I'd like to do in the next three to five years. I've even started a sinking fund for it. I struggle with financial anxiety and I don't have any family money to fall back on if things go wrong. I know that 20K is a solid emergency fund but I can't work out if I genuinely need more or if it's just my anxiety taking over. Do I keep topping it up to a nice round number or is it time to just focus my excess money elsewhere? I love that you've addressed their pain off your debt and I will let this

one slide because I get that you're still the muscle. Like she wants to build that muscle up of paying it off and it's painful and it's annoying and if it's the thing that's going to get you to never do it again then I'll let this one slide Laura won't I'm usually the tough one as well but I'm like I kind of get what you mean

she needs to cut it cut it up so what she's worried about is that she's running back on it so the fact that it's there is just a distraction it's something like the there's a lot of money fly around yeah well she's doing a few different things at once

I absolutely get it but honestly keeping it around and paying it off in little bits I don't think you gain anything from it. I know that you said, I feel like you want it as some kind of like like a punishment.

Yeah, like you're holding it over your head. Like you're giving yourself extra trauma by having to make the payment off. But I get that some people don't like paying it off in case they win it up again. It's the same with overdrafts as well. So I always tell people cut up the card

and then close the account at the minute you've paid it off. And actually you'll be annoyed that you deplete your emergency fund a little bit and you'll quickly want to build it back up again. So I know what you say. I want to give you the confidence to,

like pull the ambilical cord. Just because it's 1,500, you can still add to it. You can add to it. If you pay it off and close it down, you're less likely because you have to go and apply for a new credit card of which you're definitely not going to do. Okay, you're wrong. Back in my sister, all right.

So have a little think about that. So emergency fund is, she's done really well. Amazingly well. She's got a lifetime ice. Obviously every year you can kind of keep adding to you. She's building up that house deposit. At the moment, she's in this transitionary period where she is living with her partner. And that's fine. We always say this. That's fine for a period of time. So, like, she's building and got the house deposit in the background. There is a plan to buy together or buy that house together, whatever it is. So, like, keep that ticking over. The emergency fund, like, we always say cash is king. She's contributing a great amount to her pension. It sounds like she might be in the health service, actually. It's kind of a, you know, it is good, but it also sounds like she's struggling in that field.

But until she's ready to switch and change and do anything, she's investing in the pension, and so that's fine. And she's obviously like a bit risk averse because she's, so she's a bit riskier because she's keeping her emergency funding her stocks and shares, I say, which will go up and down, yeah. And so how do you pick the amount? That's what we always talk about. And she's anticipating two things. She's anticipating to take a break and there could be a career change or there could be a further break.

And I do think that the health service I'm hoping has the right support in place for people who do jobs like hers that do need extra help or do need time? Can she switch to a different job that's not as,

for whatever the reason is traumatic? It might not actually be. She said job switch which gives me the impression that it's within what she's doing already rather than go and find another job. job. It's like it's acceptable and facilitated that you would have a job switch because of the nature.

And on that basis, you know, hopefully it's still a more a secure job. Because what we do, when we're thinking about emergency fund and how much to have, we think about a few things. One, are you at the solo breadwinner? Because if you are higher risk. If there's two of you in the household, whilst we talked about this on a previous one, whilst your expenses could be higher, but you've got a double the chat, you know, half the chance of you both losing, I don't think of an expense, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

could the odds of you both losing job at the same time as low. And there's two of you to go out and get different jobs if the worst were to happen and you lose your job and stuff or need to walk away from a job. So if you're solo bread, we're harder, but it sounds like she's not. So that's one thing to bear in mind. Secondly is how easy it is to job switch. And it sounds to me, if you are in the health space and she's talked about this kind of realignment of stuff, there's a lot of health jobs available of different kinds.

And so you'd like to think that her skill set is something wide enough that even if it's not for the same salary, and she has to take a salary drop, there's things she can do. It's not like, I am a DJ. And the other thing I can do is be a DJ.

And I've got, sorry as that, can't be a DJ, what I'm going to be. That's harder. So then you look at, yeah, how employable are you? And it sounds to be like, she's quite employable.

So she's like building up this. I didn't hear that she had an independence. No, she's thinking about children. So that's a little bit of, and she's saving up for that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the one that that's not an emergency.

That's more of a single. So building up cash in anticipation of that. And we always say that, do you in maternity budget, what do you need to hopefully become parents? And then what do you need to manage being a parent while she's there? So she's like to pick the right number. She also made the comment which I liked. Nice round number. I mean 20s nice. But she obviously is someone that likes, I'm being very presumptuous. She likes to feel good. So like this is about what number feels good. So the idea that I mean, my husband could not have 23,469 pounds in an account. Jesus Christ, he would need to find money from somewhere else and top it up like an ice 25

or he would spend it and bring it down to maybe 22, it wouldn't like 23, there'd be something about it being an odd number maybe, but she obviously gets a lot of confidence and comfort from amounts. But it sounds like she's still not happy with 20. So my concern is that she's stacking up cash, cash, gosh, gosh, that money could be spent doing other things that will give her a bigger return. If you're planning to buy a house. At least she's investing it though.

She's doing it great. If it was like cash isa maybe because we always have this and in fact this is probably where the answer comes from. Reassurance that she's actually doing the right things. I think she's like what else should I be doing? She is investing in her pension which is growth. She is putting emergency money into stocks and shares ISO which is riskier than most people do.

Most people go cash isa, bam, say that and then everything over above I invest. And she's doing the lifetime ISO as part of it. So she's preparing for the house. So I don't think she's going to like my answer because my answer is you're doing all the right things. If she had, if she wasn't investing at all, and she was just cash, cash, cash, cash, cash, cash. That's where we'd like to say,

have a little think about where that's coming from. How much do you think you need? Because you are getting to the point where you've got a lot of liquid cash versus what you may need. And at some point we'd want you to be making hopefully higher returns and balancing out that risk. It could be a good, it's hard with financial advisors because I know that so many people really don't want to,

financial advisors don't take on people with low net worth sometimes and low cash, but to be able to save that and to be able, she's got more of a planning issue. So she needs to land. It's like what next? It's like you nailed all this stuff. Yeah. And she's not maxing out, you know, unless you did that in a year,

you get your 20K ice allowance per year. Obviously your lifetime eyes are conform part of that. She's going to be buying a house. and she's investing well so part of me wants to say you're actually doing all the right things and so keep going yeah for me

and like that to me sounds like and we're not going to advise because we don't that to me sounds like a really good emergency fund for your situation so can you bring the house purchase closer in timeline and start putting up in your lifetime ice to get your deposit earlier

yeah well listen if she can max that out and if she's planning to buy with her partner or buy into the home in the next five years, you may as well get that free money and that incentive and max out your lifetime, I say. That's the goal. Like, what's the next goal? Like, for me, I would go,

that feels like a good emergency fund for you. Like, we've gone through the risk profile of you, are you employable? Do you have dependents? Are you with a partner? You don't pay for a mortgage at the moment. You might contribute to the household, but you're not stuck to,

the mortgage isn't on you, like fortunately. Yeah. But eventually it will be. So get that house, like, for me, I would be like, and she'll know what her, she'll know what her expenses are like we tend to say between like three and twelve months expenses and your 12 months is an absolute goal and you won't get there quickly and that's for these people that you could be a solo earner you could be self-employed you could have a high-risk job

or there's lots of redundance in that space um you might not be liking your job and this is one thing so that's the only one that pushes up for me which is actually she had to take some time off and so that's the only one that would push it up but basically given she wants to buy a home anyway, cash is king. So max out the lisa and then put everything else where you want to put it, whether it's in a cash ICER or whether it's in new stocks and shares, I say. But cash is king. You're already investing for pension. So you're doing that stuff there. When we talk about emergency fund as well, one thing I learned, I think it was from you a few weeks ago was the like getting the right protections as well and you don't, if you've, in a job way.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to have, like people just plow. Yeah. You get to a point. You're just plowing cash in the emergency fund because you're thinking of all the possibilities, but you could actually take out a small protection policy for a certain amount of time if she's in this type of job where she might need time off whether that's applicable for trauma in the workplace or whatever it might be, but an income protection style thing

or a quick-clowness cover. The people, you can reduce the amount that you need to hold an emergency fund by covering off the emergencies. And so, for example, it might be things like policies around the home and home insurance and extra legal, all the day. different policies that you can make, you might be pet insurance. So what are the things that

could pop up, crop up that would give you anxiety and want you to have a higher emergency fund there? Gadget insurance, all these little things, 20 quid here and 30 quid there can actually not make you not need an extra 5 grand in an emergency fund. And you can pull that into growth. And then the same with policies. So income protection is something that you can get and you can quote for it for like a two to three year protection period. Because, you know, past that period, you might want to rethink about where you're living and what your plans are if you are out of work for that long but looking at income protection

and like I said we've got some articles on it financial dot com for slash protection you might be able to pay I'm making up 30 to 50 pound a month for a particular policy that means your emergency fund doesn't need to be 50 it can stay at 20 and then you're making your money work harder in other places because you know so I mean God if you really thought about all the things that could go wrong we'd never stop saving our emergency funds would we

yeah it'd be good actually tell us like DM onto the Instagram account like what emergency funds do people have tell us the not actually the number because it's the months like how many months expenses do you have and why because it I think that would be a really good thing for us to then anonymize and share and go these people people like this tended to do this people like this tend to do this because I think sometimes if you get like a nod that you're okay yeah you just want a gauge yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a good idea. Okay, that is all for this episode. The Vault is now closed and just a quick disclaimer. The Vault is just a chat and rely for many topics. We're not giving financial advice.