The Vault with Financielle - “I Sacrificed My Career for Our Family — Now I’m Being Punished for It” | The Vault Episode 104

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

This week, we’re diving into these money dilemmas:💸 “Is it possible to have a positive breakup?”💸 “I sacrificed my career and now I’m being punished for it”Got a money win or (totally anonymous) dilemma? Share it via the Financielle app community or email [e-mail] 💌You’re not alone in figuring this stuff out. Get honest, helpful reads at financielle.com 💖💸#AD Book a free 15-minute consultation with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial or co-parenting aspects of separation.Enjoyed this episode?Listen to The Divorce Podcast where Kate Daly and her guests look at relationships and separation from different angles, including emotional, legal and social.

Welcome to The Vault with Finanitiel. This is a safe space where we talk all things life and money and no topics are off limits. Now, we talk a lot on this pod about money and relationships, but there's one situation where those two things can get really, really messy quite quickly. And that's divorce. Divorce is one of those things that you never think is going to happen to you until it does. And statistically, nearly half of marriages in the UK end in divorce. So this affects way more people than we realise. What we don't talk about enough, though, is the money side of it, because on top of the time. of everything emotional, divorce can be really expensive. On average, people can end up spending a few thousand pounds each just on legal fees. Some estimates put the total average cost for couples over 14,000 pounds. If things can get messy and go all the way to court, it can actually climb to 30,000 or more, and realistically, in London, it can be even higher. The worst part is that most people

don't actually know what it's going to cost until they're already in it. Solicitor fees are open-ended, the stress builds and money becomes another thing to argue about. This episode of The Vault is sponsored by amicable. Basically, they make splitting up less stressful. Everything's fixed fee, price per couple, not per individual, and totally transparent, with most couples spending around £2,000 or at most 5,910, so you're not hit with any surprises. So to kick things off, we've had a very interesting question in a DM on Instagram, which I'd like to get your opinions on. I don't want to sound paranoid, but how do I know my partner is not hiding assets? Oh my God. Like it's it's everyone's worst nightmare to go through something like this. And to,

it's so interesting that we're doing this episode now. I feel like lots of people in the community have been sharing and things are building for people. Like you get to the new year, you've come through that. And lots of people, either they decide to make a change or someone else in the relationship decides to make a change and there's so much tangled up. But what's really interesting is when you find yourself in a situation like this, so many people don't have transparent finances, they don't have combined finances. And we always advocate for having separate finances, but having knowledge of what you both have. And if you're in a relationship, unless there's like addiction issues or spending issues, if you have a relationship where you

don't fully know what each other has and aren't willing to easily share or easily look or show your banking gap or, you know, be transparent about it. It's, that's a massive trust issue there. So you can imagine then when it comes to the separation, how many men and women must sit there and think that just like this DM that we got, which was, how do I know? Yeah. And some people are so, like such good people that they couldn't fathom that the person that they've been married to for like 30 years would hide stuff. Like, I'm, I don't want to say naive, but like, just trusting of other people. Like, if you've been in a relationship and had children together or not just spent your

lives together, you can't foresee that someone would be so cruel, especially if you're going going to both be going out into this world alone to hide assets, but it's just so common. Like, we actually know people in the community and within our friendship circles that are going through this at the moment. And you just have to put your trust in other people. and the legal system or whatever type of company used to help you go through a divorce, that this will all kind of come out in the wash, like my nan used to say. It'll all come out in the wash.

But, you know, I'm a couple of sponsored a sponsor in the pod. But Holly, you found Amicable a couple of years ago and you reached out to them and we like learned more about the concept of, you know, when no fault divorce came in when the law had changed a few years ago and this emergence of options that are outside of running up tens of thousands of legal fees, it's absolutely atrocious what it can cost. And obviously so much of that is driven by people, not the lawyers. But I can imagine, like, for people that do,

the person's asked this question, there's the being naive and then surprised, as you said, hold, but there's some that go. I know. I know he or she is hiding stuff. Like, that's what life's been like. We've had people share that. We've had people that, you know, like when they do the,

he earns more than me and we both put into the joint account, but I know there's some stuff over here. it's one of the weirdest things. And then when you get there and you get to this stage, it's why you hear about it. I mean, it's not my first, it's not, it's my first suggestion, but it's not the most sensible, but it's private investigator vibes. And that's actually what both of you,

and we're going to answer this. Obviously, it's a female focus podcast, but this would be if any friends of ours came to us instead was separating, is you have to do you dig him. And you have to, um, legally and appropriately, but you have to, this is why being fully aware of a, when you're together is so important. So if you are not in this position and in a great relationship, one in two ends in divorce. If should that happen, can you say that you're in a

position where both of you would feel at ease when it comes to finances and there's a clear division of assets or at least, firstly, there's clear assets and then you come on to the division of it. The problem is if you don't know. So I think like firstly, being very aware of your numbers. And so we talk about numbers both in terms of like income and outgoing. So what do you think you and your partner both earn? But what assets do you have and what liabilities do you have? You know, what debts are there? What pensions? What properties? I know of someone, not in my friendship group, but in our vicinity. This is all going to be like clucks and daggers. It's like, I've got a friend. But we actually have got our friend. Like, we're not just going,

I've got a friend. And it isn't us. A friend of mine's husband in anticipation of separation, bought a house without his wife, my friend, knowing. And it was only because of an open letter on the side about a remortgage a year later or two years later, or whatever it was, that she found out about this property. Now they've got a particular type of relationship where then, I don't think they ever got tackled or whatever, and I've not followed up on it.

But that was just something that there was a house that he had bought in the village that isn't. And like that's what kind of is going on. So you have to get private detective about this in terms of what are our outgoings, what are our assets, where we've been putting savings, what accounts have we talked about? You have to go digging because even in a wonderful and transparent world, you're going to have to list all this stuff out anyway.

This is something that you have to do when you apply for, when you do the paperwork for the divorce and you do full financial disclosure, which I'll go into in a minute. Amicable or not. You have to do it. And it's because as part of it, and obviously, we can only speak from experience, you hope that both people can honestly say, this is what I have. It's like, I'll show you mine, you show me yours. That's what it is. And you put, this is what I've got. This is what we've got. This is what you've got. And then you pick a fair division. And then a judge still has to go

stamp. So even if you're not done a big court case, you don't go to court. How do you? That's what, so the law is there to help you. And there's guidance and there's case studies. Again, for anyone going through it's like, I'm sure I'm a couple of got some really helpful guidelines. and they've got people that help. But this is where so many of the gaps occur because when you're looking at how to divide something, people revert quickly back to, well, this is what I put in.

That's mine. That's not yours, don't they all? Yeah, like if you've bought a house together and I think we've had a dilemma in the community where someone said, oh, my inheritance went towards the deposit or their ex-partners, and they, I think it was that way around. And they were like, well, I put that in,

and that was my grandma's inheritance that I put into that house. so I want it back. And it's like, but you were together at the time and you built these assets together. There might have not been necessary. Maybe she like spent six weeks off work, renovating the house. So could it be like labor costs that she could say, well, I put blood sweat and tick. Like it's just so.

Oh, my God, submitting the invoice for years of unpaid labor would be hilarious. But, but, you know, like what a big common thing that comes up is where you've had. This is much more prevalent in older people going through divorces, like people over the age of 35 and 40, like our ageing up. where historically the woman would have earned less, worked part-time, taken time out to look after the kids, and their partner stays in a higher earning job, good pension. And then it's suddenly, when it's separating,

it's all got, this is mine, this is yours. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. And no one, even the female typically would have sat there and thought, I'm losing out of here. You might well be convinced that, yeah, it's only fair that I keep mine and you keep yours, like it's possessions, but it's not, it's combined assets.

So having a, there's guidance on how you can split it. And sometimes it is decided where the lower earner and the one with less personal assets actually gets a bigger share. And it's all so it can be designed to even out. Do you know what I mean? So it may be that not only 50-50 isn't fair because some higher earners might go, well, more of it's mine, so I want more. But actually sometimes the law flips it the other way and goes, well, they've got a lot less.

And so they're going to need more because their earning trajectory is lower. Like they don't have as many qualifications as you because they've not been like in, it's hard for them to earn what you earn, etc. So it's not an easy answer. I guess like you don't know how to do it. But isn't it interesting how people just go back to like, that's mine. You get a bit of a vibe as well from someone. And like so many people have been married to someone for so long and knowing these things

internally, but because you're in a couple never truly like addressing it, if there's like a power player or a power struggle, like you say if you're, someone that works from home, you don't feel like you've got the, like, right to be able to challenge someone on their particular assets. But the minute that you start to get a vibe, when you start, everything comes out, basically. It all, it all comes out. And it's quite nice that I, the reason that we liked amicable is because it's not always like that. Like, we hear, you hear the bad stories. Everyone will tell you about a bad divorce, but there's actually loads of positive. The conscious uncoupling. Was it Gwyneth that did that first? There's loads of

Gwyneth and Chris Martin buy. But there are like a lot of people because, of the no fault divorce, it makes it much easier to be able to divorce because there's no he said, she said, yeah, there doesn't have to be like a big fat catalyst that strips families apart. You can proactively be like, we don't work together. Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. Shall we just go about this quite mature? Especially if there's children involved as well, you want to be able to not get your kids involved. It takes a big emotional toll on people and I think that's what I've learned from friends that have been through and people in our community. You can't underestimate the damage that goes on with divorce from a mental health perspective and physical.

Like I think it's one of the most stressful things that you can go through. So when we saw around a couple of hours like, even just the name says it all. Yeah. Like what a brilliant brand name and it just tells you exactly. I think you saw it on the tube. Yes. Oh,

do that's where you said. I think I do remember you're going, oh my God. If you live in London, you will see it up and down the tube all the time. Yeah. They've got loads of good out of home ads and it and really like would make you convert. If you saw it, you'd be like, yeah, I trust, I trust that they're going to look after us. Not me. Not me as a female as a man like us. Because you can be amicable in this situation. And the thing is, family get and friends get in the ear. And this is what I've seen over the past

two to three years is it starts off as amicable as possible. And when, but when money's involved and when there's inequality and when there's opportunism, stories down the of stories in the, like, you know, there's just, oh, my friend got this, my friend got that, you know, when it's like NHS or police pension, that's a big thing, you know, we, we've had family in, in that situation and people hold onto it like it's like, don't let her come after your pen, like, kill me now, like that's, but that's the vibe. And so, so you may, it may have been fine and then suddenly you think, come out to this question, actually, what assets are there?

So you do have to go a bit like it's called like a forensic accountant, a forensic accountant, just like if you were tracking your spending and you're like, where's all our money gone? Go through accounts, think about dates and things lining up and look for where spend has gone. Has money been transferred to savings accounts at any point? Like if someone's been planning this, has money been being squirreled away without you realizing. Has money been transferred to family or friends? That is something that sometimes people do. later when you do your financial disclosure, not everything's there. Be a bit savvy with it,

but know that it's because it's about knowledge of the facts and all this is meant to come out anyway. And by the way, if someone lies on a financial disclosure, it's contempt of court. So it's very, very serious. And, you know, we like doing scripts and like my back, I'm not a family lawyer, but my background is a lawyer and rightly or wrongly, like a big tactic because I was a litigator, but a big tactic for calming situations that can get quite like aggressive. or animos have a lot of animosity. What's the word? The way we do it is like try and come at it as a team which is,

so a lot of people need to start finances straight away because you suddenly don't live together and suddenly you've had a joint account, joint house, joint bills and suddenly you both having to handle this on your own so one might have to move out, you have to work out what you're doing. So very quickly kind of getting to the bottom of finances early in a separation rather than like a year later when you actually apply for divorce.

is really important. And it's really important the language that you use, which is when we fill out our forms, we will have to make a financial disclosure. So I will get my paperwork together and I will show you what money and pensions and I says and savings accounts I have.

I like that. It's de-escalating already. De-escalate it, yeah. And you need to do the same. So let's just get, because when we fill out the forms, we'll have all the data. It's this we and it will both have to do it.

And it's not me saying, how much money have you got hidden? Yeah. But that will come out in the wash, which is, you know, and you don't have to throw this in their Facebook. Can I say, look, we have to do this accurately because the court will know and we'll be able to find out. Why don't we do it together?

I'd be like, I'd be so petty, but in like a passive aggressive, non-passive aggressive way, like they wouldn't know. I'd be like so. But you can't, like, that's a good bit about financial as well. If you've been budged in as a couple for so long, you know everything. You've got your budget. It's like, Neil and I sit down and I'm always like, how much have you gotten your off from Neil?

Like, because we both have a cash icer. that our emergency fund in, but then within that is like a bit of a contingency plan. Should we need it, how much is in it, Neil? Like, we know, I know, because we put it in every month, like, can I grow mine at the same time?

It's so transparent. And honestly, like, for relationships where, for lots of us, we hope this will never happen to us, and we want everyone to be financially well. And the more assets you have, if something happened later, you know, a death could happen, a separation.

when there's when there's loads of money it probably is really controversial but when both parties have enough there is less contentious behaviour and less animosity and it's easier it's where there's an imbalance and this is why you know when you hear me say when we've got people in our community that will say my husband's got a really good pension like i don't really don't need one and obviously in a divorce we could get half doesn't people change in a divorce what's the downside of you also having a good one. The upside is there's more money to be split. I always say that. And there's no, there's no downside to it. There's no downside to it. But the downside of him or heard, who is the higher earner, having a bigger pension means on separation, we suddenly go, well, that's mine.

So as jointly, you know, if you're not on that side yet, but you want to be an anticipation of it properly happening, having as much money to go around as possible, transparent, helps you should that happen. But ultimately it's about knowing your numbers, understanding the role that pensions play in those numbers and that typically females will move away from wanting a pension and want a house. And whilst that's nice and we're close to the house, it's not going to pay the bills. So don't see that as, you know, the thing. And I also, this is a side note, but I always give people permission to move away from the house. Some people get so obsessed and connected to it, especially if the relationship ending wasn't their choice,

that they hold on to the past, the previous life. But sometimes it's really okay to thank that house for the time it gave. Your children, if you've got children, we'll be fine wherever you are. Like, they're going to be really happy. But make sure someone is in your ear that helps you with strong economic decisions,

including looking at things like pensions and future pensions, not just emotive ones. Emotive ones, which usually centre on the house. Oh my God, I did not expect that to be such long answer, but there's so much to go out. How long can this pod be? Can you do a double? You probably need a few pods.

I don't need a follow. Yeah, we do this topic. Okay, time for our first dilemma. Should you lend money to family and friends? What is an F-Off fund? How do I build my emergency fund? Well, we're so glad you asked. Head over to financial.com where we tackle the money topics you actually care about.

Struggling to make it to payday, the financial app helped me track my money, pay off debt and finally feel in control. I've built savings, I've started investing, and I actually feel financially well. Download the Fanichel app and start your money comeback today. Is it possible to have a positive breakup? Hi, girlies. Me and my husband have been together for 12 years. For the last few years, we've been drifting apart, but we've tried to make it work for our two daughters.

However, we've both come to the conclusion that it would be better for everyone if we separated. There have been no big arguments or infidelities, and we work well as a team, and we don't want any big dramas with lawyers, paperwork, accusations. We also want to make sure we handle the private. practical stuff, especially money, in a way that stays fair and calm for both of us. Is it possible to have a positive breakup?

Can I just say, what a mature, thought through, like, balanced, lovely dilemma to do with divorce. Because like I said, it's so dramatized and, like, you see it on films and you read it about celebrities. And it's fallouts, isn't it? Yeah. Inherently at the heart of it is falling out with someone, which is humans, none of us like. Yeah. And we all know someone, like I've mentioned previously.

that's been through a messy divorce. So I genuinely think there is an opportunity for people to have like a positive divorce, especially when there's children involved, they're very conscious about the children. It sounds like they've stayed together longer than they maybe would have usually done because they've got children

and God so many people come to us when they're like 30 years down the line because they stay together for the children and they've been inherently unhappy. And arguably they would have been a much happier family unit, including the kids. Like you hear so many adults when they grow up being like, oh, I wish they'd have just like split up

when I was like five because it's been hell. Like it's actually made the experience of being in that family unit much worse than it would have done if they could have had a divorce, like a really mature divorce like they've had. That's so mature. You definitely can. I feel like the,

hadn't we seen that the divorce rate amongst like people in the 50s and 60s is dramatically increased because the stigma around divorce had changed and the idea that you don't have to stay with someone of your unhappy, A lot of women became more empowered, especially financially empowered and felt like they weren't stuck in relationships. And life's for living, isn't it? And I think it's so much more, would not in the 1900s, like it's so much more important to enjoy as well like portions of your life. Like I feel like it sounds like she accepts that they had a good time together. But it's time for a new, like chapter, chapters of your life.

It's time for a new chapter. And that's okay. there's no rule that you have to stay and make the one chat to the rest of your life. I've got a friend who's mother-in-law and father-in-law divorced really late in life, and I'm talking like late 60s, early 70s, whereby the mum and the story goes that she looked after two boys a whole life, the dad went out to work, had a really good job, so I managed to keep the house going. I think she was a nurse, maybe where she was.

part-time to look after the kids and be the like the caregiver yeah and he worked a really good job and then he finally got to retire him and she was like this is it like we're going to actually spend time together and he's going to put time into this relationship because I kind of got the impression from whoever was telling the story was that like he really wasn't present at all like he would do anything he could to like work and play and like so when he was like off work he wanted to go and play golf with his mates because he was so stressed at work like just that cycle that people get into especially probably back in the 70s and the 80s and stuff and and and And then literally he retired and then he took up like more hobbies

and carried on golfing like and would golf 10 times more than he did before and picked up all these hobbies and she was like, he's never like coming for me. So literally late 60s, early 70s, she was like, I'm done. I'm divorcing you. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She'd waited, waited, waited.

And she like sat by all, by the sounds of it, is living like her best life. Yeah. Fascinating, isn't it? I think she went on to like find a new relationship as well. Oh my God. I don't need a film. This is a film. I know it is.

There's so much to go at. So I would, you know, I would hate for people to just wait for the sake of children when there are opportunities to divorce in a really clean, like friendly,

pleasant way. Do you think a lot of people don't separate because of the finances? Yeah. They really, even both parties probably think this isn't working, but how.

A lot of women, I think, stay because they can't fathom how they could pay for the family home as it currently is. Yeah, rents, like where am I going to find a house rent? I mean,

in our village there's not a house to rent. No. It's not a house to rent. And to pull a house deposit together as a couple is really hard. So imagine doing it as a single female. And then you've got to get a mortgage. If you're in a position where you can borrow, like how much can you borrow? Because before it was two of you buying.

And again, if there had been like a disparity, this is again what you can take into account when dividing assets. But if there's a disparity in earnings, this is what people don't realize. The higher earner, no matter who, which gender it is, will be able to borrow more. So therefore, we'll be able to get a bigger or not. nicer or at home and the other person won't necessarily be able to. And you're older as well, so it's harder to get a mortgage because you can't do it on a longer term. So I think everything's stacked against you. So I think the fear, the sooner you can,

we're not giving a relationship advice, but it does feel that it is easier to have a positive divorce earlier because of the stigma, the financial opportunities that like things have improved than to stay. What do you think? Well, my parents are divorced and they got divorced when I think I was seven. And obviously now, I've grown up and, like, spoken to both my parents about it. And I'm honestly so, like, grateful that they got divorced because, like, I've got, it's just all worked out, like, for the best now. Um, but after speaking to my mom, quite a lot about it, she said so many, even now, like, so many of her friends or, like, I just couldn't do it. Like, I don't know how I would do it financially. Like, my mom did,

used to struggle a lot. Like she, I think she, I think my dad like bought her out of the house. Yeah. Yeah. And then like she bought another house and everything. So obviously she was fine. But it was tough. It was, yeah, it was tough.

And she said a lot of her friends came to her and were like, you're so like brave. Yeah. And even now, she's like those same friends are still saying it like, what, nearly nearly 20 years. like they can't believe. 20 years after she made the decision and she's able to live her life on her terms. Yeah. And they're sharing a life with someone that, like it might just be okay. It might not be bad, but it might just be.

Yeah. Do you think some of them wish that they'd done what she did? Are they just kind of acknowledging how brave she was because they could never do that themselves, even if you don't want to? I think some of them do come from a place of like, oh, wish I would have done that. Right. I saw some good TikToks, which was like, I'm in a happy marriage. but if I get divorced, a man's never living in my house again.

Like, is this one or nothing? Like, I am at the time of my life. If this one goes, no else's going in. The door is locked. Well, I was saying to Holly and Lydia on a call the other day that my mum loves it. She's got a pink kitchen. She can do the house however she wants. She's not got a man yapping in her ear.

Why do you do this? My auntie Ruth, like, I don't know how, not that long after quite a big separation, painted a bedroom pink and it's kind of like it's like a regressively like why do they all do that it's like this like

sort of an allowance of femininity especially if you have been I'm not saying your mum does but you know I'd say sometimes submissive to choices compromised you know not in a super negative way

but you know as part of being a couple you do have these they just play your roles and it's not yeah it's like a combination of you two combines both of you rather than what you want

and so I want to know messaging, do you know someone that went through a separation and painted something pink? Yeah, just like unhinged decisions. Just feminine. Did something feminine happen to the decor of the house that may have been a bit more man cave or bash the paddy? Like your mum, I wonder if she didn't,

if she would have always lent into wellness much more but because she lives on her own as like independent woman, she was probably like, so I'm going to prioritise my health and my wellness because we know Jen loves a bit of wellness, doesn't she? She's obsessed. And she might not have necessarily done that if she was doing that relationship.

it. I would have put you first, your dad first. You're like, we'll eat what he likes because he's been at work or whatever it might be. I know she still works. We're going to play a game. What's the first thing you would do if each other's separate with your respect. We all live with our boy. And we were like happy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would adopt loads of bunnies. Bunny sanctuary. I have a bunny room. A bunny room. Just waiting for that moment. My garden would be fully bunied out. If he crosses the line once.

Yeah. And getting a bunny. Play by a man. I think it would be something like, I mean, I've got the kids that's hard, but eating cereal for my tea or something. You know, like, it's a level of living on my own and just pleasing yourself and could have this for dinner tonight? Because I can. You're like, girl dinner. I would lose so much weight.

Because you'd be sad because you wouldn't be able to cook. No, no, because I can't cook. So you have to get. Delivery. So maybe you should leave me all because I could do with it. You get bigger because you'd get deliver every day. Just live off white bread. Yeah.

She burns white bread. She walks away from the food. Toaster. Yeah. Honestly, I would be so thin. I burn pasta. I burn toast. I burn it all. So, yeah, that would be me. Too so light. What about you? Come on. You probably go down to similar route as Lydia and just get loads of cats. Oh. I'd probably just go to like the cat shelter and be like, all of you. Come on. You're all coming home. You'd fill the home. Yeah. That's funny. What do you think, Lydia, about this dilemma? Okay. So I'm no divorce specialist, obviously. On you? but I've got a message from Kate at Amicable that I'm going to read out.

So she says, hi, this is Kate Daly, co-founder of Amicable, host of the Divorce podcast, an author of the book Amicable Divorce. I've personally helped thousands of people to have a positive breakup, so I can tell you that yes, it's absolutely possible. From what you've written, it sounds like you're already in a pretty positive space, so I just want to say well done. Separation is never easy, but it seems like you're both handling things as well as you can. People assume that when you get divorced, you need a lawyer, but that's not true. There are

lots of other options, whether you're able to come to an agreement yourselves or you need help reaching an agreement. If you can come to an agreement yourselves about how you'd like to split your finances, you can have it checked by an amicable divorce specialist, and we will draft it into what's called a consent order and submit it to the court to make your agreement legally binding to give you both peace of mind in the future. If you aren't able to come to an agreement, and yourselves, services like Amicable are there to help. I love that. I feel so like my shoulders have dropped for the person that's going to be listening to this

that's been omen and a naring about getting divorce and the financial impact of it and the like the stressful impact of it. Like what an amazing solution. And I genuinely mean that because we've got some friends going through at the moment. Oh, it's just horrible. And like I said, I've been a solicitor, right. And one of the worst things in the world is receiving a solicitor's letter. And you have to bear in mind that the.

solicitor that's written it. It's a human and tried the best. But they've got a job to do. And it generally isn't as bad as the states where it can get really, really like, you know, they can, maybe that's just TV, but, you know, quite aggressive and mean. The litigious, though, aren't they in America? They're much more litigious and everything is about battles and threats so that you cave, whereas the UK is not like that. But, you know, lawyers still have a job to do. And when you get, it's like if you get like a parking fine, it's like, you get you back up. And what happens is escalation is what you talked about. It certainly does in the commercial courts, but it does in divorce courts because it's kids and it's family and its relationships and it's like your self-worth. And so even if, and all

you need is some idiots behind the lawyers, which are the clients, either side, that's when like fees, fees, fees, fees, fees, fees. And you kind of like, you step away from sorting it out. Whereas even if you don't see eye to eye and even if you are not amicably splitting, you still can make the separation as positive as possible. Because then especially if you do have children and if you have to finish each other's lives and you can't walk away from each other, imagine the difference for children

if you can arrange this in a compliant and easy and amicable way versus you've been sending letters. You get a letter, you open it. I've got friends that get that letter with absolute rubbish in it. And it just ruins your day. I don't know how I would then cook tea

and how I would do the swimming drop off. You're helping a friend. aren't you at the moment going through this? And like you carry it mentally, thinking of all the responses that you want to give. And then she tells me and I'm like, let me add him. Like I'm just like,

passive over here. I'll speak. You're like, you feel protective of that person. So I can't imagine what it feels like to be in it. That, you know, that's one that you know of.

And there's a couple of others that are private. Yeah. I couldn't, you know, I can't tell you what it's doing to some of them. If this could just be done calmly with a Kate or Kate's representative, like the,

you know, people that can hold your hands of it. See it as pay paperwork rather than your worth. I'm sure it's going to be a lot better. Yeah, and I want to flag one thing. We keep talking about, oh, like a positive divorce.

This amicable is still for people, and I think Kate's put it perfectly, for people that are not divorcing amicably. Like, there might not be an agreement about certain things. Like I said, we're not expecting you to be running around, holding hands through a daisy field,

like, going to like consciously uncouple. Like Chris Martin. Yeah, that's not realistic. So I don't want anyone to think, like, oh, I can only go through

the amicable channels if like we're best mates, but we're just like not going to be married anymore. It's still for people that don't like each other, that have had a fallout, but don't want the cost to spiral for the sake of both their then financial wellness going forward. So I just don't want people to think that this is just for people

that are like happy, clapy. Like that's not real life, unfortunately. 100%. Well, that leads us nicely onto the next dilemma, actually. Thanks, Holly. Not planned. Hi, this is Kate Daly, co-founder of Amicable,

host of the divorce podcast, and author of the book, Amicable Divorce. We started Amicable to help people end relationships in a kinder and better way. Money is a huge part of divorce, whether it's the cost of solicitors or how you want to split your finances during the divorce itself. The good news is you don't need to use solicitors to get divorced. That can add time, money and stress to an already difficult process. Amicable works on a fixed fee basis,

so you'll always know exactly what you're getting into and how much it will cost. When it comes to agreeing how to split your finances, we help couples communicate and come to an agreement that's fair for both of them, instead of taking sides and fighting over who gets what. We help thousands of couples every year. So if you're thinking about separation, please visit amicable.co.com.com for a free consultation. Okay, I sacrificed my career and now I'm being punished for it. Hi, ladies. I'm so stressed and would appreciate your thoughts on this. I stepped back from my job when we had kids. kids because it made sense at the time. My husband was earning more, his job was demanding, and someone had to be the flexible one. So it was me. I did the school runs, the sick days, the meals, the house, the endless life admin. I kept everything ticking so he could work late,

travel and push for promotions. We agreed that this was what was best for our family. Now we're splitting up and he keeps making it sound like I didn't actually do anything. Like all of those years looking after the kids and the house don't count and I'm somehow not entitled told to much. He keeps saying he worked hard for what he earned and that staying home was my choice. I feel stupid for trusting that this would count for something. I'm panicking about money, starting over and whether I've completely messed up my future. How do I even put a value on years of unpaid work? And is it wrong to expect it to matter now? Like we need another episode. No. We need another hour. Like this, before we answer it, I always remember, um,

friend of ours who found herself with three children under three. It was a twin situation. It was like one of those things. And she basically like shared that until the five, until school age, she's basically stopping work. And we hear this argument a lot, which is there's no point me going to work and me paying someone else to look after my kids. And I totally agree that. As someone who does love spending time, especially when they're little, especially when you've only got those like precious hours and I support anyone that does stay home. But then the reality hits of this, which is to make that choice for the family. And often, like I said, I know we generalise a lot, but it's usually a heterosexual relationship

with a female earning less, having the maternity leaves and taking time off. And then going part time thereafter because, and the argument always is, it costs the same, like the nurse is the same as her salary. What's the point? You know, after tax. And there is something really, very principled about that, which is like, why would I pay that? Why don't I look after my kids? So I get it. But this is where that decision and then this appearance of, oh, you live in the life of Larry and you're off with the kids and you don't

have to go to work and da-da-da-da-da-da. When I went back to work after my second-sleeve and I had a hot coffee. I was just over the moon. Like people don't understand how hard it is staying home with kids. It's then later not seen as value. It's seen as you had time off. I had to go to work. And that's why, like, we, I always stop people to use that argument to me. It's like, should I stop work? Like, the nursery is so expensive. It's, why don't you both work less? Why don't you both take time?

Why don't you go? Why doesn't he and she, if that's a situation, work four days or three days? Both of you drop your hours. Don't just have the one part timer and go, there's no point you're working now. Because this is the danger. You fast forward years later when it's about contribution. and individual's perception, because this is really important, is that, well, you've not contributed.

It's not yours. Like, this is mine. Now, when we are looking at division of the assets and it came up a bit in the first question, not, yeah, the first question, not dilemma, but the question we got at the DM, contribution matters and it doesn't have to be a financial contribution. It absolutely can be physical contribution to raising children, physical contribution around the home. it's not, you know, running around doing all the bloody drop-offs and pick-ups and stuff like that,

making sure that everyone's got, like, clothes that they can wear, food, you know, that is so, so important. And it's important that when we know that, but that we remember it and we document it, you know, if you're that person and you're thinking, God, like, she is devaluing her contribution, just have a little think about it and do a lot of research. We've seen stuff online that talks about if you were to hire, We talk about it with life insurance and people don't get caught. And usually the lower earner or the female doesn't have life cover or as much life cover

as their partner that earns more. And we're always like, what would it cost to replace you? And I think there has been some business studies on it before where they show like what the salary is needed. And it's over a six-figure salary to pick up all the different childcare, the cooking, the cleaning, you know, if they do all those things, what it costs. So, you know, the law and the court does protect you. but make sure you protect yourself as well and don't devalue that.

And for anyone not in that situation, just think twice if you use that comparison, which is, there's no point, I might as well not bother working. Yeah, because there's like loads of stats around when women don't go, when they're in like the childbearing years and they go off on maternity leave,

like moms get punished basically from a like promotion perspective as well when you go back to work and dads get rewarded for being dads. It's weird like that you can see loads of stats and dates are on pay rise. Oh my gosh, see lots of share that before. Yeah.

less likely to get a pair of eyes if you have a mom, if you're a mom, where you're dad, you're like, you're really proud of you. You did really well. And it's, that's shocking, isn't it? It's really shocking. So it's like there's levels of like, not only did you not paying to your pension because you went, you got, you worked part time, so you got paid less. You didn't pay as much into your pension. And therefore, you also passed on and you didn't know it because you weren't there in the workplace or you're working part time and they didn't consider you for promotions. So your earning trajectory is then lower than the man that carried on going to work throughout the time

that you were both pregnant and on maternity leave and you went part-time. What else? And then... You're like, I don't want to get married anymore. You're like a 90-year-old engaged lady and I quite like that. Not ready for you.

But it's a disincentive to have children at least. Never mind, you know, get married. You know, if it feels like this is against you, like I said, reassuringly. And typically the law is, you. And just recap it on a couple of things I said earlier, and this is why it's really important. The earlier you combine talking about finances and managing finances, and crucially, the earlier that you come at it from a team perspective, then I feel like I'm talking to you and preaching

to you. I'm sorry, listen, I'm just talking to you because you're interviewing us, but also I'm talking to you. And the even if relationships break down and you suddenly aren't the team anymore, I don't know, maybe it's me thinking of the good in people, but if that's never been the mentality, then it's very easy to never think of that in the mentality, if it's the divorce. But if it has been the mentality once upon a time, then I would like to think that most sane people would acknowledge that for that time we were a team,

and to start as the 50-50 basis first, and then acknowledge that these decisions that we made during this time, which was working part-time, putting less into pensions, whatever, comes, like, evens itself out later. And that's why the starting point is always 50-50 under visible assets, but then you take them into consideration. I said earlier, there may be a situation where the lower earner gets a higher divorce asset split.

And it's because of the maths. It's not because they deserve more. It's because they're not going to be able to catch up. They need more of a head start if that makes sense. And then finally, and this is where it gets very, very messy. But when it comes to children and care of children, acknowledging that, look, no one's a winner financially when it comes to this usually. It's going to be tough for both.

but what allowances or tweaks need to be made to an agreement to cater for the person or people that may do more of the children's finances and care the money that's needed for the children's care because there's no winners. There's no like, I got him, a rinsed him. Oh, like especially when you look at fees

if you go down the lawyer route. Like it's so, so difficult. I think it's such good advice. And it just leads into everything we talk about on this podcast, when you navigate money as a couple, Neil and I and Lauren Carl will be the same, have been so transparent. And we, even though ones are big,

like Neil's the breadwinner, I hate that term, but you all understand what I mean when I say it. He earns more than me in the relationship, but there's never a moment where he has been, or I've been, like, submissive financially and been like, oh, but you earn more so, you know, you can spend more.

He's always, because of this business that we've built and the things that we've learned and the stories that we've heard, We've just always been on an even keel when it comes to money. So I know if in the future, if anything ever happened to us where we would have a divorce, there'd never be that from Neil. I just know it because I know everything and we treat the finances as 50-50. It doesn't matter that he puts in 70 and I put in 30.

Because we've got this family there in life that we've built together and we make the financial decisions together. We had our windows done the other week. That was a decision that we had to make together to take thousands of pounds out of the savings that we've had to make this financial decision. And because we did it together. And it took forever to make the decision as well. Like we're talking about it.

Yeah, yeah. They did it, guys. They did it. But we did it together. And it wasn't like Neil paid for 70% and I paid for 30. It was like, no, no. Because our finances are the way that they are

and we're so transparent. We do the money date nights. We do the money goal nights and all these little things that we tell you to do. They're not just like a nice, like, thing that we can write. Like, we love writing blogs and we love writing articles. It's not just for the aesthetic picture. It's because it's because you're so,

This situation when 10 years later you divorce. Or it might stop you separating because you're aligned. I went to get my nails done this week. And what had Carl sold on Marketplace? What did we have? God. I think we had a, like, we got a new treadmill off marketplace and swapped it for an older one and we sold that one. What else did we sell?

Couch. Oh, we bought a couch and sold a couch. All we do. But we had, he had cash. And I went to get my nails done. And I was like, can I have some? I'm going to have cash. And it was so icky.

Can I have some money to get my nail done? Ew. And it gave me. He gave me 14. It was 30. So when I got that change, I handed the 10 back. He's like,

what are you doing? Wait a minute. Lucy, would you have handed the 10a back? No. Like, I'm laughing because I know that Lucy would have just been like.

I had to be more lucy, but it was just icky and handed him like he was my dad. Yeah. Because we've never had that relationship where it's his money and he treats me. It's ours.

Whether I've earned more, he's at my. he's Emma, we've done both. It was the strangest scenario. I was like, but honestly, I laugh. But then I went, oh, no, this is what it's like. Yeah, yeah. If you are, if your finances are separate,

if you fund things 50-50, and so many of our ladies in the community, like get to the end of the month of no money, and your man's going, like, playing paddle or whatever. I'm looking at Lisa. But, like, he's got money for the bike or the one at trainers, but she's, like, not got it.

And so if you wanted that treat or aesthetic thing for yourself, you have to go please. She's putting like the kids like play centre on a credit card because she's got no money left and he's out. No. It's not happening. I need my own cash now actually. It's from the budget but we just happened to have cash.

I was like I moved it. I had to ask for 10 pounds the day for my car wash. I had to ever take it off you then go to the cash machine. Oh 100%. Find my card. I've not used my code since two years ago. Yeah, yeah. If I need cash, I take it.

Take it. I have to ring wherever my kids are. Obviously not at school. I'm like, can you go and go. I'm not going to give the names out in the school, but can you go and get like Barry from year four and asking what his pin number is for he's safe so I can get some cash out to pay for the window cleaner?

That's the vibe in our house. The kids have cash, we don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Ava's funded all our takeways in the house. Ava is like the family bank because she has so much cash. We're always like... She's monopoly. I'm like texting Ava like, can I borrow 20 quid?

Because the window cleaner is here and I don't have any cash. She's like, yeah. You can borrow it. She gives me back. She's like 14. Yeah, literally. She is the lone shark in the family.

I'm like, A, you should charge interest on this? She shouldn't be investing more of it. Anyway, we get, we digress. But it is that point where it is a value, it is taken into consideration. And so for both our listener who's asked the dilemma and people in the situation who aren't yet in the situation, just have a little think about that. Have you think about what sacrifices you may be making, may have made or may potentially make. and how it can impact it in the future because as amicable as you can keep it. And this like, like Holly said,

the more you can think of this as a collective money, collective team, it's like swings around about, say, give and take. I'd like to think, not in all scenarios, but I'd like to think that the outcome of it would be much more balanced and seen as it's not just a 50-50 split sometimes. And if you have, you know, it's typically the man that wants 50-50 or wants to keep more, If you've got a guy in your life, friend, brother, who's in that scenario, be the ally for the woman in that place. Even if you don't like her, because you don't always like them.

But just be the ally of what it's taken to get there and what life's going to be like after. It's not going to be sunshine and roses for either party. Not many of us are going to get. Was it Mrs. Gates got a lot of money, didn't she, Mrs. Bezos? Like the first wives did well. Most of us are not going to be in that scenario. Again, probably gave up their career. Like, they might have wanted to go and do some amazing things.

went, no, no, like you are a big shot. In some cases, they help build the bloody thing. And then they still weren't going to get some of it. So, yeah, make sure you're sensible about your contribution and know it because you should value it. I think, and like to just to close, there's more we can do on this because there's so, we had so many. We couldn't possibly have fit all the different.

Like we asked, we asked a few different things that we've not covered today. We asked like for what you, what do we say? what advice you would give someone else. We've got lots of stuff that we just can't fit in because it'll be too long an episode and we probably should do it again but lots of people want to help others so that they don't make the same mistakes.

And I think this episode is going to prompt more. So if you have a story that you want to share with us anonymously or not, or if you've got advice for our people that have messaged in, send it because I just think there's more, there's more we can do on this one. Yeah, email in to the vault at financialld.com, post it in the community if you want some community advice as well,

Instagram DMs, literally anywhere. You'll find us. We're everyone. We're everywhere. We always respond. When I respond to people in our vault email address, they're like, oh my God, why you? Like, you actually respond to people. It's you. I'm like, yeah, it's me. I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm waiting for your dilemmas to roll through. And they do. And they do. I don't know why we do this, but I have received them. I pass them on to Lucy. I respect.

But I like to read the manga. It's like a selfish thing. Because I want to like give people a little bit of like, don't Were we like, yeah. Holly stressed that there's a delay between recording. Yeah. And so she goes straight back to people and gives them a first go. So sometimes you might. Does your advice change when we do it on?

No, I'm quite consistent. I'm not like, because I don't see that. Stay with him. It'll be fine. And then on the pub be like, leave him. I've had some time to think about this. On reflection. Yeah, the poor, poor girls are like, you didn't say that the first time.

I've already left him. Yeah, yeah. Too late. Oh, we're married now. I actually, you know, decided to forgive him. I'm like. You. Okay, that is all for this episode. The Vault is now closed. And just a quick disclaimer, The Vault is just a chat around life and money topics. We're not giving financial advice.

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