The Vault with Financielle - Pyramid Schemes TARGET WOMEN | The Vault Episode 9

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Send us a textWelcome to The Vault with Financielle. Hosts Lucy, Laura and Holly delve into the world of money dilemmas from leechy friends, getting the money ick, the benefits of budgeting and much much more! Nothing is off limits but everything is safe in the Vault.In this episode of The Vault, we talk pyramid schemes, credit card ‘hacking’, overcoming financial overwhelm and the emotional side of inheriting money.-Visit https://www.financielle.co.uk to join our community!Chapters:00:00:00 - Introduction00:05:32 - The Risks of Credit Card Hacking00:10:23 - Falling Into MLM Schemes00:15:43 - MLMs: A Predatory Business Model00:25:08 - The Dark Side of MLMs00:30:39 - Overcoming Financial Overwhelm00:35:27 - The Discipline of Saving for Unexpected Expenses00:40:25 - The Emotional Side of Inheriting MoneyThe Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

maths is really difficult for me like mental arithmetic we were laughing about it the other day when i used to work in devonham's as like a shop girl when people say to you can i give you the 5p and i'll be like no welcome to the vault with financial this is a safe space where we talk all things life and money and no topics are off limits none absolutely none none test us how are we feeling today good ready to help some people ready to hear some wins hopefully from the community i'm sure there will be absolutely smashing it they're on fire oh whatsapp community group is absolutely on fire it's there's never-ending winds. It's insane.

I love it. Laura and I had a little cry. Didn't we? Which day? Which cry? Which child did it? I'm going to break it down for you. It was on Friday after a really long week and a really good long week, but it was tough.

And the community was on fire, but there were so many beautiful winds and there was actually a baby. One of our Finite and Shell community members had had a baby. And I remember months ago, her talking about creating a sinking fund for maternity leave.

And she was like, it's just for in the future. Like I've had children before, but I really like I'm committed to making sure that we as a family feel like financially well. So we're going to start a sinking fund for maternity leave and other people in the group, like had one it really helped me and we had one it really helped us and so did you and she was I'm really inspired to set it up so it was months and months ago and then all of a sudden on Friday just dropped in a little baby picture oh gorgeous yeah it was tears

it was on the back of people kind of like an amazing community member sharing her story about buying her first home as a solo buyer after going through two relationship breakdowns and being a mother of three on her own and um there's a lot of people someone got a job she went for the interview in the morning in the morning she had an interview in the afternoon we were getting live updates i loved it any last words anyone any last like last tips and it was you can do this, you can do this. And then it was, I got the job. And so I think it's a real reminder of this stuff isn't money. This stuff isn't finance.

This is not numbers. This is life. And there'll be a lot of people in our community, in the app, watching updates like this, that will get inspired by completely normal people doing like extraordinary things. And that's what's really special. So we cried.

Yeah. I actually did a video to everyone. I was like, everyone has to stop it now. That's enough. Like tomorrow. Too many wins. Too many wins. Like it was, I mean, just the baby pic.

It finished us all off. Beautiful, beautiful little baby. But that was one of the reasons. Another financial baby on the list got loads never ending list stop it people gonna open a school soon no it was a really good week so yeah it's nice to nice to kick off with some good news nice okay i'm gonna start with a little controversial opinion okay and i might call some people out here probably a lot of people Okay. I'm going to start with a little controversial opinion. Okay.

And I might call some people out here. Probably a lot of people. Are you ready? Ready. You may think it, but you are not credit card hacking. I'm liking it already so to all of the people who what comes to my mind first is Amex because on TikTok I see a lot of oh I this this flight was free because but with my Amex points um I'm assuming that's a normal thing for all credit cards like there's benefits if you use them on rewards cards yeah yeah yeah like i think virgin is a big one for people ba amex are connected yeah so people points means prizes yeah so i think a lot of

people think they're winning yeah so i want you to tell us why they're not they're not they're not winning for a number of reasons. So credit card companies, surprisingly enough, know what they're doing. They know what they're doing. So they make millions and millions of pounds of profit, probably billions in revenue per year from us credit card users. And the credit card companies are better at it than us. There may be a small percentage of people that if you have a high spend environment, whether you are self-employ that if you have a high spend environment, whether you are self-employed and you have a lot of business expenses, whether you spend a lot as a family in the shops or on fuel, lots of different scenarios, I suspect, where mathematically it does

make sense to just pay for all that on a card and pay it off in full at the end of the month. Absolutely fine. The reality is that so few of us can fit emotionally into that space, numbers wise, that you get distracted by the points that could pay for flights for some holiday that you may go on eventually and get distracted from the underlying elements, which is one, did you overspend? So we are proven to spend more on credit, proven. You automatically spend more because it doesn't feel real. Not your money. So whatever you think you're saving in points that can go towards the random holiday, you've probably overspent anyway. And so you're actually worse off. You could have saved for the holiday.

You could have paid for the flight. And this is for the majority of people. There is a minority that can do it. So that's one thing. One, you've overspent. Two, one thing changes in your financial situation. You lose a job, a bill comes in, an emergency, and you suddenly can't pay off that in full that month,

wiped it out. You've literally in one month negated whatever saving. And the third thing, and this is one of those, when I speak to people that do it, that they get most annoyed with is, it limits you to where you can spend the rewards. So if it's, for example, Amex and you would, it's BA points.

From Manchester, you can't get a BA flight anywhere no so you you then are directed to spend your points you have to go to Dubai from Heathrow you have to and therefore but there might be an Emirates flight that's great value for money from Manchester but you're like I have to go with them and the same with Virgin credit cards and you have to pay the same price to get down to London yeah you've lit exactly and I think this is the mindset here where there's nothing wrong with it. People can do it well. We are much more interested

in you putting the energy and the mental admin that it takes with the spreadsheets and the trackers and the interest rates much better just cracking on and saving up for your holiday. Yeah.

Some people like love it and it's like a little hobby. It's like a little side hustle and they love like winning. They love like getting one over on the credit card companies by the way of which Visa and Mastercard are debt-free companies aren't they so you're not getting one over on them literally they're laughing at you in your little bedroom it's like a hacker it's giving hacker vibes like seven screens spreadsheets you have to headphones not not washing for a week because you're like no i've seen it

done i've seen it done very very well we're talking about an absolute minority of people that they get enjoyment from it they use the pot and like i said for some people you're spending the money anyway it feels like to leave points on the table that you could have been getting but there's so much that can go wrong the risk of playing around with travel card hacking or credit card hacking um doesn't pay off and i think also going away from the rewards why is it so normalized that we are living a month behind why is that so normal yeah why is that so it really is isn't it i feel like we've been brought up like that where you just put everything.

It's so normal. I think we're not the normal people to plan ahead for our expenses and pay for it on time. Yeah. And in the UK, we're just obsessed with credit scores. Yes, we are.

It's like a reflection of us as a character. Yeah. Well, everyone's like, I'll never get a house if my credit score is bad. And they have false ideas of how you A, build up credit score and b how you how it's actually measured yeah well yeah the banks don't use so the credit scores that we all see the banks don't use like literally they are completely separate commercial vehicles and funnily enough um i have um a worse credit score than a lot of people in our community yeah and i'm consuming debt free and the one suggestion it gives me when i log in is if you take out a credit card you'll improve your credit score than a lot of people in our community. And I'm consumer debt free. And the one suggestion it gives me when I log in is,

if you take out a credit card, you'll improve your credit score. I'm like, no shit. So of course, and by the way, is this site funded from commissions from credit cards? Funnily enough, I think it is. And so credit scores are important and building up credit, unfortunately for a period of time is important for getting mortgages, I think.

So we're certainly not dismissing the concept of it. But what people don't compare is the downside. So lots of parents will encourage their children at 18 to get a card to put a little bit of things on it to build up credit for the day they eventually buy a house. Again, we're talking about the boomer generation that don't realise how hard it is to buy a house. So 12 years later, and you're still building your credit.

Yeah, like 20 years later. Or my score's high you're welcome but i still live at home in your but i think it's just that complete misalignment you're over here you're focusing on points and a score and being good with credit but on the other side you're running up a debt on it you're paying extra interest and you're not focusing on growing your income you're making sure that your expenses are manageable so that you can save and invest for the future so we want people over there and if you want to be over there and play around with credit card hacking crack on some people can do it and you'll use it yeah proper rayman energy but the rest of us have we not got enough to handle there's a lot of stuff to do what i remember being in my last year of uni and like some of my friends were out of uni in jobs and they had credit cards

and stuff we'd like go for brunch and they'd be like pay them on the credit card and I'd be like do I need a credit card and I'm so grateful that my dad was like no you will spend so much like he was like I know you you're just going to spend it all you're the perfect customer

and I'm so so grateful for that but I think financial institutions when you go to uni you are like prime all like you're the perfect so so grateful about that like but i think um financial like institutions when you go to uni you are like prime like it gets yeah you can circumvent the overdraft it circumvents your parents like and they would never know if you're up in leeds and your family are in liverpool you will get stuff delivered to your house if you open a bank account in leeds they're gonna pepper you with overdraft and credit card and that's your first brush generally with debt it was for us um so normal so you're pepper you with overdraft and credit card. And that's your first brush generally with debt. It was for us.

So normal. So you're not normal having a credit card at that age, I would say. I would be interested to know where your friends are up to. Because I know personally, our parents...

I'm going to ask them, where are you up to? Where are you up to? Our parents, I remember my mum saying, we'll get you a credit card at a time limit of 500 and we'll pay it off for you,

but just little bits and bobs and build your credit. That, I remember that Barclay card, that was on my debt snowball. When I paid off my debt, the little innocent card that initially I would put like a little, a shop on here or there grew into a few thousand if I have no idea what. It's the gateway. Yeah, it is. And I was fine at university. I didn't struggle.

I was, I worked a couple of jobs. I had a little bit of help from parents. That wasn't a lifeline for me. I appreciate that gateway. Yeah, it is. And I was fine at university. I didn't struggle. I worked a couple of jobs. I had a little bit of help from parents. That wasn't a lifeline for me. I appreciate that credit can be a lifeline for people during uni. That was the reason for the card. And there's no way, there's no way I wouldn't have been accepted

for a mortgage. I was just about to say, there's no way that contributed to you getting your hands. No, not at all. I still got a really rubbish interest rate. Do you think if you didn't have that card, do you think you still like would have gone you found credit in other ways maybe well yeah well I did though it's normal so I had a sofa on finance I had a car on finance and I had a credit

card and I had to pay them all off and so one of them would have if it wasn't the card it would have been something else because it was so available to us but I think it's I think what's sad is when a credit card is well intentioned it will help build your credit score and then the parents go see you later

and the 18 year old is like oh this is amazing and then years later you're thinking that was probably a vodka revolution

at some point I'm not sure yeah you're paying it off 20 years later that has a vodka times 30 because it's gone in dress that was an espresso martini it wasn't like in our day it'd have been a mojito vodka it might have been vodka revolution used to get those sticks it was a woo woo. Cheeky vimto. Jugs. They used to have espresso martini on draft where we used to

go. It was so good. Oh God. And one time I asked for it. So like the club that we always used to go through in uni, it was like three floors, obviously like the top floor is like the R&B floor. So we'd always go there and that's where the espresso martini draft was. And it got to a point instead of it, cause we'd always spill it. It would be like in a espresso martini draft was. And it got to a point, instead of it, because we'd always spill it, it would be like in the plastic martini glass. And I'd be like, can I just have it in a glass? One time I literally remember having a pint of espresso martini.

God, that sounds so dangerous. Second of all, imagine that much coffee inside me. Is that when you did your dissertation? Like, all nighter. Whatever happened to 50p tequila shots like that was my university oh god

don't come by looking for 50p at my uni I used to go out and spend like 10 pounds just get free drinks I used to drink

a Lamborghini like get absolutely wasted and then spend nothing on the night out thinking I packed it like pre-drinks free night out

innit and a stomach pop okay so i think we have a clear standing on credit cards we do so i'm gonna go into dilemma number one okay this is a juicy one this is a juicy one buckle in okay my sister won't stop falling for MLMs. For anyone who doesn't know, what's an MLN, guys? MLM. MLM.

MLM. It sounds like MLM. Multi-level marketing scammers. Sorry. She went there, right? I don't know. They read the dilemma out, yeah. So.

Hi, girls. I need some desperate help my sister and i brackets early 40s have always been close we both are happily married and have families of our own she's a stay-at-home mom whilst her husband works a higher paid job and this seems to work really well for them except for one thing despite my many attempts to caution her she has a knack for falling into MLMs skincare, supplements, Tupperware, you name it she's done it. While it may seem harmless these schemes always leave her financially and emotionally strained. I've tried to talk to her many times to move her away from these schemes but she always says she knows what she's doing and she wants to contribute financially to the home too. It feels like no one can get through to her and help stop her from being sucked in. I can see it beginning to take a toll on her and her relationship.

What do I do and how do I get her to escape this cycle? I don't know how direct I can be on this. Go for it. Go all all in the Facebook huns have got a lot to answer for the Facebook lives I'm just going to wait for some more people to join the millennial pause

hi guys oh the amount of pyramid schemes I've been asked to go on friend sharing it and not many people know what they are

so I'm going to let Laura take this over because I feel like she's got a really good knowledge of this. Well, I just think we've seen it so often. And then there's a female and male dynamic that I think we probably need to talk about. But firstly, let's put ourselves into the position

of the MLM companies and why they target women. Women are more open to flexible working scenarios. They've often taken time off if they have children to work less to take a more flexible career to work more part-time to possibly not work at all and that's a genuine decision between a couple sometimes actually a single parent as well where the child care costs and the juggle mean actually it's much better if I can do a work from home job where I'm in control of my hours and and if you're in a relationship I feel like I can contribute which I think they mentioned in the dialogue but that's a big thing and so they're also big networkers women naturally have the

whatsapp groups the friendship groups and they're also spenders were spenders and so this magical combination for MLMs whether it's um you know I'm not going to go into specific names but there's more household names that you know feel less predatory there's not high high spend to go in but usually you have to buy stock to start off with yeah so what's that explain to what it is like what's the premise of an MLM so an MLM when why it's called multi-level marketing but it's about you would effectively not quite a franchise but you would set up your own your own business essentially but you're basically a salesperson and you will sell a company's product and you can make money two ways you can make money through selling product but sometimes you can also make money from recruiting another friend

and um in the most basic examples um i think actually recently like body shop went went under didn't it and that's the most typical one that someone think actually recently like Body Shop went under, didn't it? And that's the most typical one that someone would remember. The traditional one, yeah. The more normalized one where it's, you know, really good ethical kind of product element of the business and sells through these networks. And, you know, quite frankly,

women are going buying skincare from the shops anyway. Why not buy from a friend in terms of the product side? And then there's some more predatory ones which could be like 5 000 to buy in and there's these like coaches and levels and one person a bit like a recruiter or a manager has a team and they get a cut of your sales and that's where the pyramid happens because like just talking about it gives me the ick well it really does and it's targeting women and so what what really frustrates me

about it is when you look at the actual maths and the sales and the earnings it is pittance

it's the people at the top isn't it yes it's like 2% of people that actually do well and they don't just do well from sales

they do well from everyone else's sales they probably aren't doing any sales they probably aren't doing any sales by then so just people on whatsapps and they don't just do well from sales do well from everyone else's sales they probably won't be doing any sales they probably won't be doing any sales so just be on whatsapps and kind of cracking the whip and stuff but what so many women actually end up worse off because you have to invest time in networking groups you have to do some advertising you want to do some facebook ads or whatever you you have to spend money on product usually you have to buy a product up front i think it's like a minimum buy-in for a lot of these i'm talking like you'll see them so i'll i won't name the companies but

the types of things that you might see fragrances that aren't necessarily brand names protein powders and supplements makeup i'm trying to think about if you've seen them on facebook and you can skincare and you can jewelry you can see people pushing them. Travels happened more recently as well, which is again, they're making more money from the recruit. Dangerous game by the way, travel. Well,

we're from travel and we know how difficult it is to manage, but sometimes these people are making more money from the recruitment of someone than they are the actual like product. So when you look at the net income, so what these women are actually making to contribute to their own flexible life or to the family pot, it's probably tens of pounds, if not a hundred a month. Like it's so, so small and all the energy and focus could have been directed one to like your own career and to advancing and not thinking

that you're not an entrepreneur if you're doing this, that's not a business. You're just a salesperson. But there's also an issue with your friendship groups because you are relying on your closest nearest and dearest to buy from you and what we know about the world of businesses doesn't work like that because just because i sell skincare you might go to the lady down the road and buy it's so saturated yeah every man and their dog is selling the same thing yeah and there's no difference as well so you won't necessarily like if you're like die hard charlotte silver magic cream and your best mate's going buy the body by this one it's amazing because you know that she needs to hit targets to be able to

continue to be in this like community of people that are selling she might work her way up the ladder how many have you seen the post where people are like on a private jet going to like florida or to miami to see tens of thousands of other top sellers that's what gets people going they're like that could be me realistically it's statistically probably not going to happen but when you're selling you know for those people at home that would love to set up their own business work for themselves um it's a hard hard journey as i'm sure not lots of you know but to sell someone else's product under someone else's terms it's not the easy way out it's still very very difficult and you put what you need when you

build a business and you have a product or a service is to find the customers that are right for you and to get them to keep buying from you and to stay with you and so it is not a sustainable business to sell fragrances and clothes and Tupperware and whatever to your friends because well you're just gonna how much tupperware do you need i mean i've got loads i've got a lot of lids i must be honest but i think if you're thinking about what you would say it's a really difficult one because she's motivated to earn money and and have value and have a role and be a part of a community maybe um so she needs to be told that she is valuable and she is contributing and is there another way you know she could probably

basically have a lot less stress and make a lot more money having a nice part-time job yeah virtual assistant or something where you can still be in control of your hours be flexible freelance writer literally yeah but how many men do you see flogging this is true men aren't doing it detox tea and stuff they're not doing it are they how many men do you see really on tiktok shop compared to women because i feel like that's going that way there's something there's like an underlying discomfort on some of these social media channels women selling to other women yeah okay let's all flog anything. I feel like it puts your friends in a really awkward position as well

because they feel like they need to support you. But they also know it's a pyramid scheme so they're supporting this huge company. It's a pity payment, isn't it? How many people have you seen that have got, I keep seeing it on Facebook, I tend to not go on it really, but where they've got,

you know that they've got a job and then they'll be like, I'm really happy to announce that I am now, da, da, da. And you just, your heart sinks because you know that they've got a job and then they'll be like I'm really happy to announce that I am now da da da and you just your heart sinks because you know that they're going to come out of it and not in a really good situation

but if people put that time and energy into engaging in their own career you make so much more money we talked about it last week you can make so many more strides in your own career

and that's the biggest way to kind of boost your income is to like progress in your career rather than trying to do side hustles and get distracted. Yeah. And it's never been a better time to work flexibly. So I love now that there's so many options for people that need flexible hours. They want to work from home.

They don't want to clock on on a shift. Yeah. And so it's never been, it used to be MLMs were the kind of place you'd go if you were a stay at home mum or if you wanted to work part-time you have so many more options now in in a formal job and in a more flexible kind of security and rules and insurance and like pension wellness pension oh god so bringing it back they've sucked her in clearly yes um how are we approaching it how are we kind of making her realize that it's not that's not the option if you want to make more money if you want to contribute financially which you clearly like it doesn't sound like she needs to but she wants to she's trying to show willing i would go at it

like so i've been looking at an mlm scheme um and i want make an MLM scheme market to her. So I would go in with that. I've been really tempted and I've seen this new thing. Can I just check the last few times you did? How much money did you make from each of those? So you're going to try and catch her out. Yeah. Because you don't want to offend her.

Get her on side, find the information and be like, oh, you know, you could make like 10 times more money by doing this or that I don't know I would go hard I love going undercover I think it's I think it's important to go hard and like with love yeah you might get into an argument or something but you just know that in a couple of years time she'll look back and be like I would go hard not with oh here we go again yeah because I don't want it to be a reflection of her efforts because these things are set up that you will not win like you will not make money from it I would be more saying you're worth so much more than this yeah this is not a great idea people don't make money from this and you can do so much better what would you like to do shall we workshop it should we go

for a coffee yeah but I would probably be like no I, I would be, it's a sister, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, fuck, yeah. You can be brutal. Yeah. Can you?

No, you're not. So I'm thinking of, no. It's really, no, it's really difficult. You don't want to be,

you don't want to come across as judgmental, but, oh, honestly, MLM, like, it gets me. Just because it's so predatory to females.

I would love, send us in your stories of MLMs. emailing at the vault at financial.com whether it's like when you felt awkward that a friend has um started it up whether you've run one and you like felt like you were duped or that you had a really good experience prove us wrong yeah whether you're the token friend that spends a lot of money with your friends that are on them to make them feel better you know pity payments cabinet full and just talked to us about it because it isn't talked about enough there's a really cool girl on tiktok actually that talks through mlms that yeah she'll probably put in the vault newsletter and link because she just talks absolute gospel she outs them oh i think she got sucked into one and then she realized the enormity of it she said that she

was on whats WhatsApp every night getting pressure from her manager to she recruited a team of people and then she the manager that was above her

was putting her under pressure to put pressure on her team so she said I look back at all the messages that I used to send

to people it's so culty isn't it yeah it's like a cult yeah we're a family you're part of the family scary

yeah go make money go go go sell shampoo We're a family. Yeah. You're part of the family. Scary. Yeah. Go make money. Go, go. Go sell shampoo. Okay. I have got... Drum roll. Put my teeth back in.

I've got a voice note community. Yay. We love a voice note. A voice note is a podcast within a podcast, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I do love a voice note a voice note is a podcast within a podcast isn't it like I do I do love a voice note and I've seen like imagine listening to the voice note while you're doing your hair and doing your makeup it's a great way of getting an update from your friends yeah is it giving main character energy as well it is okay I'm here for it okay hey listeners so this week I was asked to share my money win and I thought yeah great why not

but then when I started to really sit down and think about it I thought oh I don't know that I actually have one for this month but upon further reflection I realized that there was a lot that I actually could say so a while ago I used to be part of one of these weight loss programs I won't say which one because I'm not trying to promote anything in particular stay with me I know you're probably thinking what on earth does this have to do with money but just stay with me and with this particular program they not only emphasized losing weight but they also talked about non-scale victories which is the idea that it's not just about the number on the scale it's about other things so like it could be how your clothes are fitting or how you feel and I thought about those non-scale

victories and I thought actually the same could be applied to my finances. It's not always about the money that you've got in your account. Sometimes it's about your mindset. And for me, that's been a huge one because before I started using Financial and their budgeting principles, I would barely look at my bank statements. I wouldn't really focus on finances. I'd worry about them. I'd do everything but take control of them, essentially. So yeah, my money win is that I've just had such a huge boost in confidence when it comes to my finances. And even though the numbers aren't exactly where I'd like them to be I can survive I am now getting to the end of the month with money and that's something that just seemed like an impossibility a few months

ago so that's my money win just getting to the end of the month with money left over having that excess that I can put towards my goals I'm shifting my debt so much faster than I ever anticipated. And it's all because there's just a great community that I can discuss these things with. So if you're not part of it, I suggest you jump on the app and get involved. But also because I decided to take stock of my finances and not run away from them, but run towards them knowing that I can make the necessary changes. So that's an encouragement for all of you, even if it feels like you're not where you want to be, even a change in mindset is a win worth celebrating. So have a think about that for the rest of the week. I hope to hear lots of your money wins throughout the podcast and in the community and yes I am wishing

everybody the very best of luck and every success on their money journey bye oh my god legend what a share incredible she needs to come and sit on the sofa with us I think she does I mean god the way she describes stuff she could write a book couldn't she? And the non-scale victories. Yeah. We talk about that a lot. So having this like numerical victories and totals only get you so far, don't they? Like, I'd like to save a thousand pounds. I'd like to save 10,000 pounds.

I'd like to buy, I can't, whatever those things are. But seeing how confident she is, is really, really inspiring because she knows that she's not where she wants to be, but she's moving a lot quicker and a lot happier. I wonder how many, like, do you have any non-money victories? Because she covered a broad amount there about confidence, but what's like a non-money victory?

Non-skill, non-money victory. Non-skill victory. Not feeling overwhelmed anymore. Like I was a bit like her, never check my bank account. There's a funny story where I didn't check my bank account there's a funny story where a buyer didn't check my bank account for like I don't know 18 months

I was like locked out of my Halifax and I was like nah I'll be fine which every month then it happened husband was siphoning off money into

the Cayman Islands every month I was like have you sorted it out I was like how scary was it like checking it the first time

yeah just getting into that rhythm did you like scroll back and be like ooh yeah no I think I was like anything that went beforehand didn't actually happen

starting again but yeah I just yeah just it it got to a point where I never checked it so therefore checking it would be quite overwhelming and then I think I did the playbook and sat with Laura and went through a few things and yeah yeah, like maths is really difficult for me, like mental arithmetic. We were laughing about it the other day when I used to work in Debenhams as like a shop girl when people say to you, can I give you the 5p?

And I'd be like, no. I'd have to work out. You can't do that. Maybe. If you're not allowed to exercise. Can I do the rest of it as well? Seriously. If someone throws me off course,

if I'm put on the spot when it comes to money and finances, which is ironic because I run a financial wellness brand that's why yeah because it's not about the numbers

it's literally not it's about the little things like she said checking your bank account every day running towards your finances so just being open to whatever might be there

and we always tell people it's just numbers even if it doesn't look good and it doesn't feel good it's very emotional like women especially with the nature of impulsive spending and all the things we have to look after even if it doesn't look good and it doesn't feel good um it's very emotional like when women especially with the impulse of spend nature of impulse of spending and all the things we have to look after in the life admin it can't just be really super overwhelming so we'll gladly just not

look at it but yeah biggest bit of advice and biggest mindset change for me and non non monetary win is just checking my bank account and being okay with whatever whatever's there because we can work it out yeah i think mine is like not having massive like peaks and troughs troughs troughs troughs troughs troughs um when it comes to money when it comes to money and it's not like oh my god like i'm so panicked or like oh my god it's smooth sailing maybe i'll have like oh i shouldn't have spent that yes or there's no drama there's no extremes because it's planned out every month like it gets to payday i've done my budget like last week i know exactly how it's gonna go yes like kind of with doing the fan shell way you've kind of spent everything ahead of time so you've got a dopamine

hit by going i'm gonna buy this a lot of people say when they first start budgeting they're like oh i actually feel like i've got no money but it's just because every penny is like accounted for and like you know where everything's going you've got money and it's just don't have that like you're not saying oh you can't buy anything i've got a lovely like beauty i'm getting like beauty treatment this month so i'm like oh i'm going on beauty treatment yeah put aside like that's the little dopamine hit but you get loads in one go when you're planning out your budget yeah so much more fun no i love it that's a good one because i think i love the memes like the payday memes yeah you know and actually a lot of the you know um social channels the sheer looks of the world

will say what's your payday buy i hate them yeah i absolutely hate them one buying things shouldn't be connected to payday if you want to buy something on the 27th of the month yeah the two days before payday and there's money in your clothing budget or hair budget why can't you buy it then that's fine but we're conditioned that there needs to be oh man i'm gonna get this this payday having drinks it's the sunday before you start healthy eating on the monday literally it's like a lot of companies especially fashion companies in manchester looking at you they have literally like payday sales payday like lunch and there's like all vans and stuff

for the staff and it's like they're not free like the staff go and it might be discounted or something but you're you've just been paid

money by that company and now you're giving it back to them okay I need a tea after this because I want to see evidence of it I'm taking this

conversation offline but there's that and then there's the jokey oh I've now got 24p in my bank account like as if oh because I've spent it

and that's the extremes that you're talking about so I like that it's very normal in our society to make fun isn't it on day three to have no money left yeah

it's like a given it's like oh what am I like yeah silly me silly me yes try again you're like pointing

like poking fun at ourselves and it's alright it's okay like we're all having a laugh we're all like you know we're all human but to remove

to change that habit is massive it is game changing only when you said it I've realised how abnormal my probably payday routine is yeah

it will be but the idea of reducing extremes is massive so like I can imagine the ups and the downs and the highs and the lows or you come into money like you get gifted yeah oh what we're doing yeah i've got to spend it i'm not used to it whereas if there's a place for it to go yeah no i like that one i i

was trying to think about what my non-money win would be and i think it's the concept of sinking funds so when when years and years ago when i first learned about ironically saving up in advance for something that you know you're gonna spend funny that you know this is so simple this is not rocket science is it but we're taught we've been brought up on credit cards you put the holiday on a credit card and we'll pay it off as we go along or you'll um you know when if you need to pay for insurance you'll pay for it on the monthly payment and not the annual because it it's just, why wouldn't you? I've not got 700 pound or 400 pound or whatever. I'll pay for it monthly. And I remember when you first do the financial methodology where you include sinking funds into your budget, there's two things. One, you think you've not

got a lot of money. That's like, oh, I already felt stressed and now I feel worse. But the discipline of starting to put something aside that you don't touch is one of the hardest. I describe it as put my big girl pants on. Like I'm finally adulting. And I've spent my entire adult life prior to that not doing that. And then the first time that you need to use it. So whether it's saving up for your emergency fund or whether it's a sinking fund, like the car sinking fund has always blown my mind because we've got two cars in our family

and not using your savings to pay for car tires is honestly one of the biggest game changing moments for us as a family. Not seeing that big number go down. Yeah. No. And even now, you know, sometimes my husband will go,

oh, the car needs this and i'll go it's there we've we've already as you said mentally spent that money if there is four or five hundred pounds in the car maintenance fund it's not ours it's for the mechanic that will in the future help us with our car and that that was game-changing the fact that the first time you use that money and it's there you're like feels free i'm really like yeah proud of myself proud of myself so i think that's my non-money win nice well done t yeah legend so i've got another dilemma my mother-in-law died without a will my mother-in-law died one year ago but she never made a will she left two children who are my husband and his sister we have a 12 year old boy

together whilst my whilst his sister has four grown-up children we know that the estate is worth upwards of 200 000 pounds but we're unsure on the exact amount his sister has been sorting out the estate for the past year as there have been a few delays his sister has all of a sudden came out and said that her mum wanted her, my husband and the five grandchildren to be treated almost equally. But my husband has said he never discussed money like that with his mum and she never expressed any specific wishes. I presumed without a will the estate would get split 50-50 to the son and the daughter and then it's up for them to decide how they share their money with their children. I really don't want things to get awkward as we have a great relationship what should i do i'm so sorry that they're going through that as well because this is before we go into this get a will write a will you're not

going to die the minute you write it like we've all got something in our psyche that doesn't like the idea of a will but there are so many stories that we can share from just our community alone never mind more widely where when there's not a will you get dile so many stories that we can share from just our community alone never mind more widely where when there's not a will you get dilemmas like this where actually it sounds like quite a cohesive family there's no big dramas it's just it's relationships and as the person that passes away one you don't want to cause drama and and two you do want your wishes to be followed out and so you know you it's you can get really cost-effective ones nowadays if you think about the value of our estates generally

um it's the biggest thing that we hopefully we leave to people and you just don't want that when you're not there so i feel like it's just life admin that it's there for a reason isn't it like otherwise what a world's for it's to it's to stop the ambiguity of what are we going to do when someone dies yeah and actually ambiguity is a really good point because he didn't speak to his mum about money like that lots of us don't especially like you know we don't want to be speaking to our parents like so who gets what you know yeah how much am i getting i don't know if you sat around with my husband he's like who's getting the tortoise from last episode passed down back to the tortoise

my brother but if you it's very rare for us to speak about money with our family anyway but to even speak about potential inheritance is just so weird like money's a taboo but imagine like layering death on top of that so when you're gone you know so and then but the big problem here is um there's no will and so when there's a formal will which is it's got to be a legal will it's assigned in the right way there's no will and so when there's a formal will which is it's got to be a legal will it's got to be signed in the right way there's got to be executors it can't just be a piece of paper then when the rules of intestacy in the UK in the UK the rules of intestacy come in now obviously from different countries it could be different situations but generally there is a law that says if there's no will this is kind of what you do now you we've heard there's no mention of a partner so it sounds like mother-in-law was the last one from her marriage

if she had one so there's no partner because if there's a partner um a certain amount of money um goes to the partner anyway okay first um but then so in this situation there's no partner it falls to children as in him her husband and his sister the two of them and it's a really interesting one this is why wills are really important because lots of us would love to gift things to our grandchildren um in in any particular way whether it's evenly whether it's certain items and possessions um and it really helps to have someone walk you through as you're building, you will, what happens and when, you know, for example, what would happen if one of them passed away, you know, before this had happened, what would have happened then? So no, generally it

follows that the children, the boy and the girl, like the man and the woman would split the estate 50 50 and it's for them to if they want to gift whatever they want to to their children there's no rule that says oh and for grandchildren you know you need to be able to give this so this should have been talked about ideally um what would you the problem is the sister's going right so this is what mum wanted you have to be so careful to not cause a big argument yeah i was about to say do we think that the sister's coming across like so in the will she wanted she said well so there was all right okay but like that surely that just can't happen yeah you can't decide so she's the executive i'm assuming the sister's the executor she can't

because there's no will no there's no will well she decides she's managing probate so she's she's sounds like she's having to get it's an absolute pain like gathering all the documents working out what's owed and and generally as long when there's no dispute by the way the family can just sort it obviously you need a formal probate to be able to get into bank accounts and stuff so you don't just suddenly you know one person comes into the money and divides it up there's a lot of processes but i guess we're talking about the emotional side here and this is where you decide how given it this isn't it it is a lot of money but we're not talking like you know one of those right off into the sunset jumps yeah or like one of those big estates where everyone's in the rooms it's not salt burn it's not

they're not they're not they're not inheriting the bathtub I'm not saying salt burn you wouldn't know what I'm talking about because you've not seen it

I've not seen it only you have I've basically seen it in TikTok clicks give up you've watched I've seen it part 74

seen it yeah but typically it's that life changing amount of money but you don't want to be that person I get why she's writing the dilemma you don-changing amount of money, but you don't want to be that person. I get why she's writing the dilemma.

You don't want to, someone's died and you don't want to go, so, about that money. But then it's getting diluted so much because there's five of them. Yeah. Whereas only two

members of your family are coming into that money. Yeah. And that could really impact like your family. Yeah, 200 grand divided by two, 100 grand is quite a lot of money.

But if it is split between everyone not that much so you don't want to be that person you don't want to be sat around being like oh it's really sad that she died anyway I know but if it grates on you

forever yes or you bring the friendship you know people put barriers up when they talk about money don't they yeah you get really defensive

and it might look like you're a bit of a gold digger even if there's not much to go at it's really difficult so many people struggle in this. This is why a will is really important. So what would I do? Because it would be you and me, Holly.

So I've had more children than you. This would be a similar scenario. But ultimately, it might be helpful for him, not her. She can't get involved. It's not her mum. So rule number one, don't be in the corner going, and say this to her, and say that to her.

Or you can, but just don't let it be obvious. Do my posts. Write a script. WhatsApp script. I think that we should do... Kiss. Oh, sorry.

Sorry. Honestly, especially in the UK, the government have a really simple explanation of what the law does in this scenario. And so I think the easiest thing to do is look mum wanted so much for all of the children but what's really hard is

it's not written down and the the risk later is that it can come back and be challenged so why don't we just follow the rules what the rules in in law is and and and follow that and that we would be that the two children split them unevenly and they might have children another child it might happen exactly and it's all been distributed but also

they don't have to give money to the children no there's no rules that you know and if that's up to you because it's your property then it's not

oh I need to divide it up the children will benefit from your contribution from what you've well it depends depends if you go to Saint-Tropez with it yeah

what age do you think you should get a will would you two do a will I don't have one I would just currently my bunny wouldn't inherit everything

that's a responsibility for bunny she needs to know what you want yeah where you want money going yeah I think it would

just be it would be things which I don't know if it's a will or something else that does this, but like... Wishes. Yeah. Wishes.

Just like what happens to, like, can someone please log out of my Instagram? Social assets is actually a really big thing. Yeah. Will companies are really keen on getting people because what do you do with all your Instagram accounts and the pictures and someone could... Someone can get into my hidden picture camera. Yeah. Snapchat. Please delete all those Facebook statuses I made when I was 12.

You used to tell Apple to self-destruct your account. Yeah, literally. So any final words? Get a will. Where there's a will, there's a way. There you go. Couldn't have said it better. Michael.

Okay, that's all for this episode. The Vault is now closed. If you would like to send your dilemmas, please email them to thevault at financial.com. And just a quick disclaimer, The Vault is just a chat around life and money topics and we are not giving financial advice.