The Vault with Financielle - UNLOCKED: Debt Shame Is Keeping You Stuck—Here’s How to Overcome It

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Send us a text💸 Welcome to The Vault Unlocked – the bonus series of The Vault where we deep dive into the big money topics no one wants to talk about.Today, we’re tackling debt shame—and how it might be holding you back. If you’ve ever felt guilty, embarrassed, or even paralysed by the thought of your debt, you’re not alone. But here’s the truth: guilt doesn’t create better money habits—taking action does.In this episode, we’re breaking down:Why debt shame keeps so many people stuck in silence and stressThe vicious cycle of guilt, avoidance, and growing debtHow to shift your mindset and separate your self-worth from your financesThe power of talking about money—and why it’s time to break the taboo💬 Your challenge: Try bringing up money with one friend this week. You don’t have to share every detail—just start the conversation. You might be surprised at how freeing it feels.Want a safe space to talk about it? Join our community in the app. You’re not in this alone.💬 Have a topic you’d love us to unlock next? Email us at [e-mail]👉 Subscribe to Financielle for real, honest conversations about money. It’s time to rewrite your money story.The Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

Welcome to The Vault Unlocked, where I take a deep dive into money topics that no one wants to talk about. And this week's episode is really special to me actually, because it is Debt Awareness Week this week. This is a week that the debt charity StepChange have put together to kind of raise awareness of debt and also highlight the stigma around it, which is right up our street.

I really feel that the finance world is deathly silent when it comes to genuinely caring about helping people get out of debt. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that companies and products have been the problem, about helping people get out of debt. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that companies and products have been the problem, whether it's being plugged into a retail checkout and offering by now pay later so easily,

or whether it's these credit score websites that want you to optimize your credit by taking on credit cards and loans and, oh, by the way, did you know they get a commission for you doing that? Funny that car deals are advertised in monthly prices not in you know the list price of the car and debt ultimately isn't evil we always say this at financial it is not evil I think even if everything goes to plan you're in

this situation where all of your money is going out on payments and it's for things typically apart from the house and you know maybe apart from education a lot of our finance payments are going just towards people that have provided us with a product or a service at some point half the time we can't even remember that we can't remember what was on the card we no longer wear the outfit that we bought on buy now pay later we no longer get as giddy about the car that we chose to go and finance so even if everything runs smoothly it's still a drag on our finances because all these payments aren't going towards things that increase our net worth they're going to all these finance companies and that's

if everything goes to plan. The other side to this is when life hits us you know it could be The other side to this is when life hits us, it could be a job loss, it could be an illness, it could be a breakup, it could be a birth, it could be a death, all these kind of life events and life triggers hit us and it's hard enough to manage those when it's kind of like your regular payments and your regular bills, when you've got an awful lot of things on finance as well. It can be really tricky. I think where the stigma is combined with

people keeping it private and I don't mean like obviously you're not gonna put out your Facebook status how much debt you're in if you didn't want to but keeping it from friends and family where you are really struggling, where it's absolutely impacting your mental health, where it might even be impacting your physical health, where there could be some long-term damage done to your personal finances because you're kind of trying to figure it all out and you're trying to dig yourself out the hole.

It's that shame and stigma that causes that reluctance to share. So when the team and I sat down to talk about Debt Awareness and I sat down to talk about debt awareness week, it was the stigma around debt that really frustrates us. The fact that so many people carry the weight of debt on their own shoulders. And one of the wonderful things about the financial community, whether it's our vault listeners, whether it's our Instagram and TikTok family, whether it's the in-app community.

This is a safe space that's judgment free. And actually I was thinking about, there had been a trend on TikTok about we listen and we don't judge. And it's where friends and family members and couples kind of confess things to each other. And sometimes it's something so shocking that the other person's like, oh, no way. So it could be, you know, when every day you thought I was going for a run,

I was actually sitting in the car park of Starbucks and scrolling on TikTok. There's much more severe ones than that. But that's like an example one that I thought of. That's like, you know, I want to get out in in the open, I wanna confess, but you can't judge me, because we're doing, you know, we listen and we don't judge. And I thought that was quite fitting. I thought that maybe the pod this week can make us all take some time to think about

either ourselves and our situation, if we have secret debt or mounting and growing debt and we're really struggling, this could be the time to have that conversation with your loved ones, your parents, your friends, your family, your partner, whoever's right for you. And it may be that you're sharing with us in the financial community,

you might reveal where you're up to and you can probably do it a bit anonymously in there as well. But seek that help, don't carry the weight of it on your own, because the stigma's unjustified. We've all made mistakes and sometimes it's not because of our own mistakes, sometimes we're carrying consumer debt and it's through circumstance that we're absolutely beyond our control

and sometimes it was well within our control. But do you know what, we're human and we mess up sometimes. I don't even like the language I'm using like mess up it's more like we make decisions and there are consequences to those decisions but we shouldn't be you know vilified for those we kind of just need to learn from whether they're mistakes or learn from choices and not be overwhelmed by the guilt that comes with that, just have the freedom and the space to put them right. And so, yeah, you could be carrying a debt secret or it's not even a secret, but it's starting to become manageable. And take this as our push to share that with someone that you care about, someone that can,

the people I've spoken to when they've shared, it like immediately their shoulders like just relax and they feel literally like the weight's been lifted and that's what debt and unmanageable debt can do to you. It drags you down and so much of it's mental rather than it is the actual maths. And just like they do always say, don't they, problem shared is a problem halved. And I truly believe that a problem shared is a problem halved, because I've seen it. I've seen the impact it has on people.

I've had the messages from people saying, this has saved my marriage. I finally had the confidence to share. I've been doing this on my own. I've been trying to find my way out of it and now we're a team, we're moving much more quickly. My parents had a lot more understanding about why I will say no to things and why I'm on a debt-free journey because they hadn't realized how the space I was in. And then likewise, if you have someone in your life who you suspect may be struggling,

or you suspect has a problem with spending or with debts. If you have that relationship with them and you will know your boundaries, you'll know whether you can have a chat with them about it, send them to us, send them this podcast. We are a judgment-free place. We are here to help if you want help to turn things around and for you to go on a self-directed journey.

But I think that's gonna be the theme of this pod. It's gonna be very much on we listen and we don't judge. Now, I have filmed an entire episode on debt, how to get out of it and stuff. This week I wanted to talk about the stigma around debt, but if you also wanted to go back and go, okay, I wanna know step by step, how do I do that? Then go back to that earlier unlocked episode.

The heart of the financial playbook is giving people a really simple method to follow to take control of their money. And that comes in multiple forms. The key and the heart of it is building a budget that has excess cash in it. And when you have a budget that doesn't have excess cash, in fact, if it has minus,

it suggests that you're probably using credit to fund lifestyle. It could be overdraft, it could be buying our pay later, it could be credit cards or loans. But essentially, if we list our income, and then we list our expenses, and our expenses exceed our income, that's kind of exactly where credit's coming in

to fund everyday life. And that's a sign to kind of say, look, we're just never gonna get ahead if this is the way it's gonna be, if this is the way that our money kind of is managed. And so it's like a stark reminder or announcement that, okay, we need to get our shit together, we need to fix these numbers

so that we have more coming in than going out. And when we have that, we have an excess. And in financial, the excess is the amount of money that you can put every budget towards your goal that you're working towards at the moment. And in financial, we have stages. So the earlier survive stages are about firstly, building up a mini emergency fund

of at least one month's expenses. It could be higher if you're in a more riskier job or if you have more particular needs at that, you know,, any one time. But your excess is the thing that you use to build up that emergency fund. That emergency fund gives you confidence, it helps you walk taller, it helps you prepare for when not if an emergency arrives. If you budgeted wrong and you would typically have relied on credit, your emergency fund is amazing, it can step in them. And then you move on to using your excess to pay off this debt.

And depending on your debt, this could take a long time and this, or it might not take that long. And depending on your excess as well, like that's the equation, you know, the more, the higher the excess, the quicker you can pay off your consumer debt and feel better. But even just paying it off month on month and getting excited about it and seeing it go down,

going in the app, seeing the trackers go down, knowing that every time you pay off a debt it's increasing your net worth, it's just the mental side of it can help. And again, people still might wanna be private and not share that they're in debt, but at the same time you tend to go all in on something when you share and when you hold yourself accountable,

you tell everyone, I'm gonna be doing this. And so later, if you don't do this, you've created the scenario where everyone's got these expectations that you're gonna win and pay off your debt and you don't and you're not doing it. So there's something socially acceptance wise about that that we all know helps to encourage us a bit more.

And so the philosophy around the financial method in the playbook is that this excess cash is the key to the rest of your life and it may feel like you're in the trenches in the early stages with emergency funds to build and with debt to pay off. But one day it will be gone and one day you will have realized that that was your Everest and that you conquered it and thereafter I promise you things feel so much easier.

You know the idea of saving a lofty house deposit is much easier when you're consumer debt free and when you've done the sweat and the work to pay off that debt because you did it. Also when you're kind of investing later and ramping that up, it's funny, I say this to people often, like when you're in Grow, like I am on TikTok at the moment doing an investing challenge.

I'm actually trying to fill two stocks and shares I says between me and my husband with 40,000 pounds. I'm actually trying to fill two stocks and shares ices between me and my husband with 40,000 pounds. Lofty girl, need it because it's so easy to be passive with investing and saving. You are so much more aggressive when you have a goal. And so paying off a debt is amazing. It makes you feel like you're beating the system

and you're finally taking control. And also saving for a house deposit, the house is at the end of the rainbow for you, that's what you're working towards. Investing is really hard in terms of to optimize it and to over invest your defaults. We have our pension contributions and our default contributions into the children's sizes.

But for us, it would be so easy to deflect excess money into a nice life or house upgrades. And so we're like, no, no, we need to have a sinking fund for those things, we need to pick a target. And that's what we're doing with investing. And the people that, like I said, I'm oddly and weirdly jealous sometimes of people that are on a debt-free journey

because I just, I look back and I think of that time so fondly because of the person I was becoming. I do feel like I was a diamond in the rough. I feel like I was learning and grinding and fixing and solutionizing and just like that period made me who I am and it'll make you who you're going to be. It really will and so if you are struggling with this time and if you are on a debt-free journey, one, think of it as part of the story and part of the training for two, the day that you will look back and go,

oh my God, look what I did. And look at the skills I've built up during that time and I can then apply that to my investing strategy and grow my net worth, hitting 100,000 net worth, hitting a million net worth. This is all possible, but it starts with the slog and the cave of doom, which is paying off debt.

But I think for me, I was able to turn my debt into a badge of honor. I was very, very embarrassed about having run up consumer debt, and it was all normal debt, don't get me wrong, cars and credit cards and there wasn't a loan, there was student loan, sofa, just really random stuff. It was all quite normal.

But I did have to flip that from being something that I was embarrassed about because of this stigma that we're talking about today to this badge of honor and to say I did that. And when you do it as well, there's something wonderful human about this. If you feel stigma around debt and if you feel really bad about it, you're also gonna project that onto others.

The minute you start to shout about your successes with paying off debt, I finally paid off my first credit card, I've finally done this. I'm not, you know, when you eventually become debt free, you are gonna project that onto people and people are not gonna be ashamed and think they're gonna have to go

on a secret debt free journey. You may inspire them to be more open, be more transparent, own it, but not feel that stigma. And I believe from kind of what we've seen with people in the financial community, they'll pay off more quickly. They will become debt free more quickly. For those of you that are in debt,

I think that the reality is so many people are in consumer debt, but they just don't like to admit it. They don't like to share it with people. Debt Justice actually is a campaigning organisation, they're working to end unjust debt and poverty and inequality that unjust debt perpetuates, especially in the UK but also globally. And they found that 12.8 million adults are weighed down by debt, that's what I was talking about earlier, the weight on your shoulders.

And 25 million people, which is roughly half of all adults in the UK, are in debt or worried about falling into debt. But it can feel like you're the only one who's struggling and this is because no one talks about it. You know, in a world where debt has been so normalized, it's quite taboo to admit it later. I saw a really good TikTok of a girl like sat in a car going,

okay, how are we all folding our cars? Like the hidden like the elephant in the room is like finance. Of course, that's how people can't afford these in full. People don't have the cash to drive these out of these and BMWs and you're really aesthetic and aspirational cars. It's all on finance. But there's not a bumper sticker on the back of the car saying, I pay for this monthly.

I could never afford this in full. It's the same with social media. The halls that you see people see, if it's a hall, a fashion hall from a influencer, odds are they've not paid for that. They've either been gifted it, they're gonna wear it, try it all on, film the content, take it back. Or they could be incentivized with affiliate links, so whilst they buy one,

they may get a kickback on promoting that item. You would never actually know who paid cash for them, who actually funded the purchases, even if they say so, you'll never actually know. And same with discussion of friends, I did see a movement at the beginning of the year on social media where people Maybe it was connected to New Year's resolutions, but word some people were sharing right? This is the year. I'm getting my shit together I'm gonna pay off my debt and if a handful of people were sharing that who wasn't Who in our friendship circle is really struggling who is is living beyond their means? Who is funding it with credit? Maybe it's to keep up with you.

Maybe it's to keep up with others. You know, there could be friends in your friendship group who are struggling and can't keep up with everyone else, but then because of the stigma associated with maybe not doing as well financially or by having debt, they feel they can't share that. And it's super hard, because again, people are private about this.

Some people get into consumer debt by choice and some people don't. And I think I'm still quite neutral on the stigma point where no one should be made to feel ashamed for choices or not choices. And if I give you examples, not choice could be health reasons, leaving a tough relationship, job loss,

the, you know, emergencies happening. There's so many scenarios where people are forced to take on credit and some people choose to. And you know, that's not always because of a spending problem either. There's nothing wrong with making decisions to buy things and put them on finance. It's just later we can really see how that can compound and grow.

And what started off as something small can grow into something much bigger, much more unmanageable. And then actually when you then cross the two things over, so you might have, it might have been manageable. And then suddenly life hits you. you can really understand why someone who felt they had it all under control suddenly doesn't. I bet there's definitely a feel of judgment as well, like what will people say if they knew that this lifestyle that I portray on social media is funded by my overdraft and that actually I don't think I've got the money

in the bank account to pay for the groceries or I'm gonna miss my electricity bill. That's nothing to judge. This is a very real situation that lots of people find themselves in and they feel that they can't share. And at the extreme end, you know, we have seen scenarios like this. I have heard too often people think about taking their own life or actually taking their own life because of debt. It's something that people carry with them and carry and it's for years and combined with you know mental ill health and it could be that there was mental ill health to start off with and the personal finance side compounds that or vice versa there could be money problems and this then compounds it to feel like you've kind of

no other option. It happens way too much and like I said a couple of examples have just come to my mind and it's mend both times and but where we've got an image to uphold people see us perhaps as providers, as responsible, you can just imagine the weight that someone's carrying. And so, on one end of the scale here, we are talking about maybe a few hundred pounds of binar-pellated debt or overdraft debt that you're carrying around that you're a little bit embarrassed about.

But at the other end, we're talking about serious amounts. It could be people deciding whether to do IVAs or deciding whether to become bankrupt. It could be people deciding whether to do IVAs or deciding whether to become bankrupt. It could be people questioning whether they still wanna be here because of debt. Whilst they are extremes, they're very real and they are all connected to stigma. These examples are all connected to how we think people

will feel about us or think about us or judge us if they knew what was actually going on. And so we listen and we don't judge. And I did a call out actually on Instagram last week to say that we're doing this week and one of the things that we found really, really impactful when it comes to helping people become less bothered about what people think when it comes to their debt

and more motivated to pay it off but in a safe and supportive environment. I asked for your stories, so we've got a few. So I'm gonna go through some now, and these were some responses to the question boxes and a couple of longer ones. So these are our, I call it Insta-debt confessions, some of them are questions, some of the things.

So we had one amazing individual say, I paid and closed my debt, but now my partner is slaving away to pay his. And I think firstly, what I would say is amazing that you are both on a journey to become debt free. That's the biggest step, the fact that you've actually decided to do this. It was really hard for your partner to see that you're over there and you've done it and they're still slaving away. But he will be inspired by you and hopefully he will keep going and get the head down and focus. You make sure you have your goal, keep encouraging him.

I think the nice thing to do is also not splurge and not indulge and go through a real simple life with him. Make sure that we're not overspending, you're not encouraging him to overspend so that he can hit his debt-free date quicker. But well done and really excited to hear about when you're both debt-free. Someone else made a comment,

PayPal credit cards, it's so easy to put stuff on and it getting totally out of hand. Bang on, this is a problem with, I guess what I call smaller credit options, whether it's buy now pay later, whether it's an overdraft, whether it's PayPal, it's little things, little and often, and suddenly it merges into this bigger debt

and it's just too easy. And I think the minute you can decide I'm never using debt again, like we're just not doing it. It's not an option. If I don't have the money, we can't do that thing. I don't buy that thing. It makes it very freeing. It's very easy.

It's a no. The decision about whether you can have the thing or do the thing or not is easy. It's a no, because there's not enough money or we find money, but not, oh, I not oh, I'll just I'll just put it on I'll just put it on and see I'm not a fan of these like easy credit options that They're it you know the touch of a button when you impulsively need something or want something Someone has asked in the box shall I pay off my debt with savings one of my favorite questions

The answer strictly is it's completely up to you the playbook would say make sure that you have a One of my favorite questions. The answer strictly is, it's completely up to you. The playbook would say, make sure that you have a mini emergency fund of at least one month's emergency expenses. Sometimes it's higher depending on your situation and depending on how you feel. Once you're consumer debt free, we do jump straight back

to emergency fund and make that bigger and fatter and more comfortable. But we've also got another good vol episode where someone asked this question and the three of us debated it in detail. I'm pretty sure the title of the episode is something like, Shall I Pay Off My Debt With Savings?

So jump onto YouTube or Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to the vol and have a look at the detailed answer to that one. But in principle, if you have more savings than a mini emergency fund and you have consumer debt, the playbook would say pay it off. And it's because the net impact of the savings is they're eroded by the debt anyway.

And what we've seen from people is when they use their savings, they use the savings to mask the debt. So they sit and they go, oh, I like my pretty savings up there. Da da da da da. I love my savings. So I've got some debt, but don't worry,

I've got some savings. If you apply those savings, anything over and above your mini emergency fund to the debt, you scare yourself. You like kind of panic and you go, oh my God, my savings have gone. But you'll have brought down your debt and the exciting thing then is building them back up again

and it scares you to have lower savings, especially if you've been someone that's had it higher before. And so you get into like excited mode and you go, go, go and you build quickly. And so, and if you don't like it, then you could just take out on a loan. That's not advice by the way, I'm just joking,

but you can reverse this. Like if you use your savings, pay off the debt, and you miss having a debt, then just, you can take out a debt. So it's reversible, and I don't think you will. So yeah, have a little think about it, do the figures. And I would, but that's personal to you. Someone else said, my debt-free journey

was a long, old slog, seven plus years, but life is forever changed. I mean, this is money we're talking about and people are using phrases like, life is forever changed. If you're in the trenches, if you're embarrassed about your debt, if you're moving slowly because you're not sharing it with people

and you feel like you need the kick, that's a kick. Someone's like a long old slog, seven years, but now, and never again that contributor, fair play to you, well done, you've done amazing, and I think your comment is gonna inspire so many people listening to this to change their life forever. Someone else said they had 35,000 debt,

they had 35,000 pounds in debt after leaving an abusive marriage. Now own my home and no consumer debt. This is the before and after that we need in our life, isn't it? The fact that someone not just has come from such a heavy financial situation, but emotionally and abusive, the fact that you can kind of turn that around, take control and become a homeowner and have no consumer debt,

it's just goals. And that should inspire you because if you are someone who feels stigma around debt because it's been your choices in terms of impulsive spending or overspending or buying things that you kind of couldn't have afforded, that's hard enough, right? If you, I speak to so many people who have been in relationships where they've taken out credit for people

and been forced to or been cut off financially and they have to use credit to kind of get ahead. They're kind of embarrassed about the marriage choice as well, the relationship choice. And that's also something that we don't want. We don't want people feeling silly or feeling guilty or feeling stressed about decisions they've made. It is what it is.

But that's just proof that if you put together a plan and if you take control and learn from situations in the nicest way, I mean like you spot the signs and you make sure you're never gonna be in a relationship like that again. You just have so much more confidence and power and control, and that must be so invigorating after not having it.

Our final one, it's actually quite long, but I'm gonna, I like the story, so I'm gonna, so buckle in, I'm gonna read it out. Mine is a never-ending pit of the student overdraft I got in my first year of uni over 10 years ago. I remember how normal it was for all of us to be in our overdrafts and some people had multiple bank accounts with multiple overdrafts. I even worked whilst at uni and still had an overdraft. I was doing five days a week on teacher training placement and then

working at Superdrug both days on the weekend. I saw someone say that the problem with an overdraft is that there is not a minimum payment every month so I have never been incentivized to pay it off. On top of that it remained interest-free for three years after uni, up to £3,250. So I just got used to it being there. I went to try and close it in the bank after graduating and they told me I would be silly too. I am trying really hard to break the habit of a lifetime

of relying on my overdraft now, but it feels like I was completely set up for failure and I wish I had understood what I was doing when originally taking it out. It feels like it adds insult to injury when I am then losing £250 a month to student finance. I have both post-grad and undergrad loans, as well as still trying to fix the money mistake of taking out an overdraft whilst at uni. Especially, as you said in your last podcast, it's a student finance debt that I will never pay off

because the interest is so high, but I'll continue to pay for the next 30 years. Okay, firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to share with us how this came to be. This is so common and it is really scary. And again, it's this concept of we'll throw debt at you. People have said it's the cheapest debt you'll ever have. You'd be mad not to.

We just kind of follow everyone else. It's very normal to do that. We've got a lot to do in that area actually. It's something that I'm really passionate about. I think if you've any stories on student finance, student overdraft, student loans, let us know because I just think we've got something bubbling there. Like it keeps, I can always tell if something

really pisses me off, it just keeps coming back to the surface and it's something that, as we've shared on the pod before, I am super privileged that I went, I'm that old, that I went to university at a time when it was a fraction of what it costs now. A little bit worse for Holly, because she's a little bit younger.

And then, you know, Lucy and Lydia, like, went at different times. It is just a minefield. And I just don't see it getting better, but I don't see it talked about enough. So share your experiences with us because it could help influence, with the couples and parents listening to this that have children that may go into further education,

what do we wanna do about helping fund that? Do we wanna limit the loans that people take on? Do we wanna be more structured in the courses that people apply to? What do we think about post-grad? And more importantly, what do we think about money management?? And more importantly, what do we think about money management?

Is there anything that we can do about, you know, avoiding this overdraft situation, not falling further behind so that when we graduate, and then you've got, you know, living costs and commuting costs, even if you, you know, hopefully find a really good job, it's still really tough. You don't want to be held back financially by the decisions of the previous, you know, three to four years. So thank you for sharing that with us. hopefully find a really good job, it's still really tough. You don't want to be held back financially

by the decisions of the previous three to four years. So thank you for sharing that with us. And if it provoked anything in you and you wanted to share, then message us into the vault at financial.com or message in the community. The real impact of carrying the shame of having debt is forming a part of your everyday. So, you know, when it comes to stress and anxiety,

you could be constantly worried about how you're going to pay it off and how you're going to navigate it and what can I do? And that can lead to sleepless nights. It can lead to overwhelm. It can lead to distraction. It can lead to health issues. You could be the opposite of that and have like an avoidance tendency. And in that scenario, you kind of bury your head in the sand, you're ostriching and that's perpetuating the

problem. It's not making it go away, it'll be in the back even if you ignore it. I don't think either are good, maybe the stress and anxiety one means at least you know what you're dealing with but they're both not ideal, we don't want either of those. But I think also the guilt doesn't help, it's not going to help you fix the thing. Guilt doesn't create better money habits, action does. So if you are someone who is stressed, anxious, avoiding or guilty or any of these things, if you carry a stigma around your debt, it's probably gonna be holding you back in taking control.

So this is permission at this point in the podcast to leave it in your past. You're gonna stop. You're gonna not be ashamed of your debt, but you're gonna recognize that it's not helping you and that it's holding you back and that you need to get aggressive and you need to get focused and you need to make a plan.

First up, we're gonna face up to our figures. I know it sounds daunting right now, but it is the key to getting over that first hurdle. So no more avoiding emails, no more not opening letters. Get your login details, get a pen and paper or get the financial app up and start adding in your debt. Who are they with? How much is outstanding? Let's get a feel for where we're at. And now you've seen the numbers and when you you've finished and you can see the numbers,

I want you to breathe a little. I want you to be calm. They're just numbers. Yes, they reflect money that you're gonna have to pay back, but we're gonna build a plan. No matter how long it takes, we're gonna build a plan. They're not a reflection of you. So when we're faced, so we're faced up to the figures,

and next, I really want you to change your perspective. So we're faced up to our figures, and and next I want us to really change our perspective. Just because you have debt doesn't mean you've failed. This is a problem that can be fixed in most scenarios. And I did mention step change at the very beginning, Debt Awareness Week is something that they've come up with. If any of this is something that we get into this self-management and you feel overwhelmed with,

there are so many helpful charities that can walk you through this, and there may be some practical, formal regulated debt solutions that you need to take on. They are a last resort, but these charities have people at the end of the phone, they can walk you through the options. And so we're gonna talk about facing up to it,

and we're gonna talk about reframing what we're doing. But I want to be mindful that in some scenarios, it may need extra help. And this is the moment to go, okay, now I've faced up to the figures, I know where I'm at. If you are feeling overwhelmed and this isn't something that you wanna self manage

and it's not something that you feel like you can manage with others, pick up the phone to them, just do it. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. They are so helpful, they are so phone to them, just do it. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. They are so helpful, they are so practical, and they're trained to help. They literally exist to help people like you.

That's what they're there for, and they're waiting to pick up the phone to you. But either way, we're gonna change our perspective, and this debt figure, this debt total doesn't mean you've failed. So forgive yourself, because it's gonna be 10 times harder if you keep punishing yourself for past decisions. And then once you've forgiven yourself and I do think that you'll feel better about yourself you might feel better about sharing it. In this economy more and more people have been struggling. If there's a time not to be ashamed

about your money and your past money decisions it is now. stuff is hard, times are tough. You never know who else you may help by sharing the reality of what you're going through. We've got cost of living sky high, wages haven't necessarily kept up as well. This stigma around debt is very outdated, it doesn't reflect the realities of what people are having to navigate right now.

I loved actually the loud budgeting trend that we saw on social last year. It was talking about being proud to budget, being proud to be frugal in certain areas because you have other goals. And I think being brave about that. So if there's a suggestion in the group about is anyone fancy going out for dinner this Friday?

And it's like, oh, actually, I'm on a budget right now. Like, I'm really trying to pay off my debt, but I don't mind hosting. If you wanna come around to mine, everyone bring a bit of snacks. Let's have a quite cost-effective night, boom. Or it could be a night out and you say, do you know what, I'm gonna drive

because I'm trying to save money, so I don't wanna pay for expensive drinks. I'm just gonna stick to water, but I'll drive us. There are things that you can do and say, I am on a budget and be confident about that and not have it be made to feel as something that is to be embarrassed about or something that should be quite private

that you're trying to sneakily navigate a night on a budget. Just like tell your friends, because what frankly, apart from a bit of banter, I'm always here for banter. If they don't understand and if they don't empathize with you, they're probably not that kind of friends anyway. And so just on that, be brave to have money conversations

with your friends. Like I said, you just don't know what they're thinking. You don't know how much you might be able to help them. Problem shared is always a problem half with good friends. I truly believe that. And so hopefully, if you can connect all these actions together, you will go from a space of really struggling, feeling guilty about your debt, feeling the stigma of that,

to actually recognising it's just a number and it's maths and we've got a target to hit. Also realising where you may need extra help, whether that's help from friends or family or a partner and sharing that with them and getting them on board, or whether that is reaching out to a debt charity and getting that extra support from a professional. But ultimately, when it comes to debt, especially at financial,

we listen and we don't judge. As ever, if you want a safe space to talk about your experiences or your debt, head to the Community in-app. It is just absolute gold for talking through stuff like this. And for those of you that made it this far, just a small request for us is, we would love to get some reviews of the Vault and the Vault Unlocked, whether it's on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts or on YouTube.

If we have reviews, it helps us on the discovery algorithm to get this content to more people that may want it. So please do take the time to leave a review. If you've done it, screenshot it and put it in the community, we can see what you're doing there and we can like and share that. It might inspire someone else to do that as well. And finally, before I lock the vault, if you want to share something with those, please do email to thevault at financial.com. It could be a topic you want us to cover. It could be a comment on

student finance. It could be something that you learn about this episode. Is there something that you're going to do after listening to this, Whether it be helping another person that you think might be struggling or whether you're the person that's struggling. And we want to hear from you guys cuz you are the stories that inspire others to go on and do bigger and better things and we just love sharing them. We will always do it anonymously unless you specifically request a shout out. We will always respect your privacy, but stories help inspire others. So keep them coming.

We love them. And just a disclaimer, the vault unlocked is a lighthearted chat around life and money. We're not giving financial advice. Bye bye.