The Vault with Financielle - We Can't Afford To Have Kids | The Vault Episode 13

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Send us a textWelcome to The Vault with Financielle. Hosts Lucy, Laura and Holly delve into the world of money dilemmas from leechy friends, getting the money ick, the benefits of budgeting and much much more! Nothing is off limits but everything is safe in the Vault.In this episode of The Vault, we talk about how pensions are boring but SO IMPORTANT, how to avoid bad money habits, setting money boundaries and the huge cost of having kids.-Visit https://www.financielle.co.uk to join our community!Chapters:00:00:00 - Introduction00:04:33 - Planning for Long-Term Wealth and Retirement00:13:06 - Building Bad Money Habits00:17:19 - Setting Financial Boundaries00:21:32 - The Importance of Money Education for Kids00:25:44 - The Financial Struggles of Parenting and the Cost of Living00:29:56 - The Cost of Having Children00:34:16 - Personal Finance and Life's Big QuestionsThe Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

The thing is, it seemed really complicated. You hear the pension adverts on the radio. The word, it needs to change. We should change it. We'll workshop it. I used to think where I grew up, there was like a neighbourhood of bungalows and it's like we're all of the pensioners. Pensioners, that's why, yeah. I used to think bungalows were called pensions. Oh.

Because I was like, whatever. I still think now, like, I go home and I'm like there's pensions welcome to the vault with financial this is a safe space where we talk all things life and money and no topics

are off limits episode 13 is that what we're on it's unlucky unlucky it's so haunted what's gonna happen

so whilst you sometimes you dive into a controversial opinion I've got a controversial opinion oh okay so I was chatting to um our friend Suze hi Suze she loves the merch was really excited but she didn't feel she could buy the money club t-shirt and I said why and she was like well does it not look like I'm trying to show off that I've got money and I was like oh my god I never thought about it like that like I was like no no no that I've got money and I was like oh my god I never thought

about it like that like I was like no no no it's about being in like in the club you find me in the club but isn't that interesting I was like no no no but people's perception on like Suze is definitely very considerate of do people think I am saying something particular am I showing off yeah I was like thank you for showing me that side but no no you are allowed in the money club it's not it's for everybody

yeah it's inclusive does that mean I need to throw out my like sports club t-shirts from ASOS because I am not in any sports club I've got a wellness club one

like I'm not well burn it no wear the t-shirt you want to be okay controversial opinion at a time if you don't pay into your pension you are screwed hold up I'm gonna add some color I'm gonna add some context because I feel like we need it going into this so after speaking to a few women in our community there's a lot of women aged mid-50s who are now divorced didn't decided to opt out of their pension when they were younger and kind of banked on their future selves being able to cover cover that um obviously had partners who like had great pensions whatever now divorced years later didn't decide on didn't take any of the pension in the double in the divorce and are now at a point

like where for them it seems pointless to pay into that to start paying into their pension and a lot of them are kind of banking on and looking for other areas so side hustles starting their own businesses and being like that is my pension or like I'm paying off my mortgage that is my pension what do you think about that sips tea separate poly it's Holly's favorite soapbox yeah pension it's never too late first of all I mean correct me if I'm wrong it probably is too late in some circumstances. It's like a little bit of maths if you're in your 70s. I was just about to say if you come into us in your 70s and you're like I've not got a pension then I would just wouldn't worry about it. No that's more about optimising what you do have

and what you're entitled to and trying to live as healthy and a happy life because you're obviously not going to go and get years and years of compound and you don't be working into your 80s and your 90s unnecessarily so yeah that's a really good point to open with it's never too late for the people that mathematically it's just really tough for it's more of optimizing we've had so many women in the mid-50s that have success stories around either starting to contribute to a pension full stop or upping their pension contributions as a result of a relationship breakdown or they've actually realized even in a couple that there actually isn't enough in the pot for them like even when

the partner's got a pension the cost you see the cost of living crisis and what it's doing to people the cost of every single thing is going up and it's likely that the value of your the state pension is not going to cover the costs that are going up you can see people struggling now that's such a good point actually like have a chat with your partner at the moment if you are um like the your 40s and down kind of age do you talk about it do you talk about how much we're going to need in in retirement like when someone goes to a financial advice um session with the with the financial planner it's all about planning for you know especially retirement because it's around investing and long-term wealth and yes a lot of it's how to optimize your you know your your taxes and optimize your money but a lot of it is when do you want to

retire and what do you want what lifestyle do you want and work backwards and so many of us miss out on that discussion because we're not in the financial advice customer target. We're in that privilege circle of people planning for long-term wealth. None of us here are in that conversation, never have been. But actually now we are because we're seeing there's so many self-employed people in the UK as well. If you think years ago, people used to be in jobs,

like you would do a vocation. So would be teacher doctor policeman and with that would come really good company pensions that doesn't exist anymore people are starting their own businesses people are working for startups like and the those really lucrative pensions have been taken away so there's people there's a mix of people at the moment are going through having those really lucrative pensions being taken away and what does life look for them so people that are experiencing or enjoying a pension right now have had really good luckily like system set up a long time ago they don't exist anymore and they definitely won't in the future they'll arguably be worse there's so much misinformation about pensions as well like so many people say my house is my

pension what are you gonna live in then you know like even if you downsize, like housing costs or rent when you're older, it will still be expensive. So houses are not pension unless you have a property empire, which, by the way, still after tax is not necessarily, you know, black and white. It's not as lucrative as it used to be. But for those people, so I guess there's like two messages out of this controversial opinion. The first is listen to the women in their 50s that say, I wish I hadn't have done that. They have literally done it and they have got the scars of it and they're working towards improving it. But do not ignore that warning.

I wish I'd have done this when I was younger. It's one of the biggest things we hear people talk about. But for women and pensions and couples and pensions, it's actually one of the most freeing things. If you look at pension, not as something, oh, you can't take it with you and who knows we'll be here. Well, it's an asset you're building for your family. So first of all, it's teaching you delayed gratification. I need to put some money away that I can't touch for years. And that isn't the hardest thing to do as a human. So if you nail that, it's a really good muscle to nail. But the second point is you are likely to live, you are likely to

be around a lot longer than people in previous generations. What kind of lifestyle do you want and are you on track to hit it? And then I guess the third point, and this is more to people approaching retirement, 10 to 20 years out, you know, at retirement age, but really fit and well and want to carry on working. For those people that feel like they might be behind and there's calculators online to work out how much you kind of will probably need in our pot is um you can pay into a sip a sip in the uk is a self-invested personal pension you could do this in all countries no matter where you're listening you should be able to have a look and there's no reason why even if you're in employment now and it's going into your pension you can put extra in like so many people don't know that i

didn't i didn't know that because you know that when you have the your first real job was with us wasn't it so it's really funny when you're like so lucy this is what happens in a corporate in a corporate job um but somebody comes in it's usually a white middle-aged male in a suit and it's and you'll get an email and it goes around to the whole company it's like the pension guy is coming in oh my god so everyone goes out on the lunch when he comes in because nobody wants to sit it's like a drop-in it's overwhelming it doesn't make sense yeah literally don't see him yeah everyone scatters because it's it's confusing overwhelming as well when you're young I don't have to worry about this right now I'll worry about it when I'm older but the really financially savvy people in my company,

there's a woman in mind, and you know exactly what I'm talking about. She would be literally sat at the front. She would get all the information. And she'd try and get everybody around the table and be like, guys, you need to... There's some really good advocates of people that are like, pensions are really important.

And whether that's been passed down by a family member or they just really can see that it's free money from the government and it grows over time, it makes perfect sense to focus on it. so you will get those gems of people that are chowers yeah pension champions but let's change the language as well invest in champions like it's investing yeah i before financial i did not know that a pension was invested like that money goes and it gets invested and it grows yeah yeah and there's graphs to kind of get free money to help it i always remember the first laura sent me that first email it's like do you want to opt into your

pension i was like this is a test could you imagine imagine for that send a prank prank email i'm not feeling it today no i think i'll take that i'm surprised i gave you the choice but i think legally i have to you opted out of your I did and that's like one of the biggest learnings for me and a story I share at 22 when I was living in the city and I was a lawyer and trying to balance finances because oh it's tough when you want to go to Vodka Revolution on a Friday night, like, poor me. That's a free night out. Well, so me opting out my pension gave me more money to pay my rent. To drink.

And I'll do it later. No one in my life, and, you know, parents were never taught this. So this is like a generational thing and a cultural thing about compound interest, which quite frankly, I knew more about like geology at school, but I didn't understand the compound interest which quite frankly I knew more about like geology at school but I didn't understand the compound interest and that by doing that you know there's some really good calculations about how much you need to put you could pay into your pension as a one-off when you're 21 and never touch it again and you'll still be someone that starts at 30 and 40 and it's incredible so in your 20s I love those I don't I love I love meth. So going back to our older community members

who think they can calculate what they think they need and look at the gap and do the math. And we'll help you do that if you want to message in or email us. We'll help you work out not how to invest, just how you go about making your own calculation. And then you've got a target. We all have a goal target we all have a goal we'll have a target and then you can open up with lots of independent providers a sip which is

essentially a bank account and mentally all you're doing is picking an amount and transferring it in just like a bill every month when you do your budget just you're always like just create a line for it it doesn't have the thing is it seemed really complicated you hear the pension on the radio and it sounds so like pension the word it needs to change we should change we should change i used to think where where i grew up like i'm kind of like there's like a neighborhood of bungalows and it's like we're all of the pensioners that's why yeah i used to think bungalows were called pensions. Because I was like, whatever. I still think now, I go home and I'm like,

oh, there's pensions. But even that visual representation of what you think a pensioner is, i.e. an older person, you therefore then connect. That's far away. Paying into your pension is far away and I'll worry about it later.

We're going to quote a new word. We'll come back to you on that. Optin, live fast, die old. The women live longer as well. our pension's far away and I'll worry about it later. We're going to quote a new word. We'll come back to you on that. Optin, live fast, die old. Well, the women live longer as well. Yes. So like a lot of the, we always talk about this,

a lot of the pension, I don't know, what's the word? Well, just your calculators are based on like average lifespan. And so funds to be able to get, you know, investments to crystallise and mature at the right age. It's all at the right time, sorry, it's all taken into account average lifespans.

And obviously it's an average, but women are skewed. We live longer and then get paid less for our lifetime. So we've got a lot of work to do. If you wanted to be any more angry than you were when you started listening to the book. There you go. You did warn us. Yeah, and I feel like it's time for a change.

If you know people going through like divorces or separations let's i mean we might try and find some material but the pension house split is very interesting a lot of women want to hold on to the home and i get it whether you've been a mother or not whether you're very homely whether it's very physical like it's an asset you could have plowed so much like effort into making that house blood sweat and tears making that house beautiful you know it's a really big especially if you didn't make the decision to end the relationship because that's a big thing if you're caught off guard you're like no no this is my life i'm keeping my life if you want to leave the life go leave it but this is mine so it tends to happen when we're

looking at asset splits is so and the law like a company told us this so many women skew towards the house and just disregard pensions but then if you look at future earning potential as post-divorce um the rate at which the man's pension will typically grow or the higher earner's pension will grow is more because they're putting more into it as well and it's a bigger part so the compound would have put less into hers before because she generally the traditional role is to look after the children go maternity leave so you miss out on pension contributions we always talk about that you're likely to get paid less anyway because of the gender pay gap but you also might return to work on a part-time basis because if you're not the breadwinner everyone looks around the room and goes well who's going to take time off to look after the kids? It's not going to be me because I'm the breadwinner.

So it's going to fall onto you, which inevitably nine times out of 10 is a female. So not only has she been paying in less, her husband has remained the same. Compound interest has grown. She's then taking on the cost of the family home, which won't be cheap because it'll probably be bigger than the bachelor pad that he's moving in.

I mean, visually, this is a film. I can see it. I think definitely the takeaway is if you expect, the bachelor pad that he's moving in i mean visually this is a film i can see it definitely takeaway is if you expect like early on do not underestimate how the importance of your pension call it investing call it whatever you want to call it but don't disregard it and think i'll sort it later don't think my partner's got a good pension you never know what will happen to that pension by the way never mind to the individual and whether you'll still be together but if you're of an older age and you feel like is it too late no no it is not too late come to us come to the

community or um you know go and see a financial advisor or planner usually they do 30 minute free consultations especially if you're approaching retirement that's the perfect age for someone to really look through the numbers with you and and do it so um i mean take a cup of tea after that guys good luck with the dilemma but warmed warmed up, what can I say? I feel like this leads nicely onto this dilemma. So, I'm worried my daughter has no money. Hi girls, I'm writing to you as I desperately need some help for my daughter. For context, my daughter is 22 years old.

She never went to uni. She has a good job in recruitment and still lives at home. My concern is that she seems to be constantly spending her money. I don't know the exact figure that she earns but I know it's in the mid-20s. She doesn't have any fixed expenses as we don't charge her any rent as we said we never would and we're in a lucky position where we don't need her to contribute towards our bills. She has parcels arriving to the house every day and is always out with her friends drinking every weekend. I love that she's enjoying her early 20s but I'm worried she's building bad money habits that she won't be able to break when it really matters it sometimes also gets to the point where she asks

to borrow money from us at the end of the month and says she'll pay us back when she gets paid should I have a word with her should we start charging her rent and keeping the money aside as a house deposit for her I don't want her to get stuck in this cycle and never be able to afford to move out it's like a car crash and the poor parents are watching oh no maybe she'll learn maybe she'll but like how is she gonna learn in the daughter's defense yeah you know like it's not a great time she's not gonna talk at work she's going for lunch for the pension guy company. She's definitely going out to Nando's. I was just about to say, Nando's lunch. No, like it's it.

How is her daughter expected to know this? We're not born with this. What's interesting is it feels like, I'm presuming this is a mum, the way she's talking, but the mum knows these aren't good money habits so like presumably she has

tried to show or demonstrate how you manage money but she's obviously quite relaxed with her daughter and I like that I'm envisioning the mum

from Migos I'm a cool mum can I get you anything some snacks a condom yeah I'm a cool mum I'm a cool mum

I'm not a regular mom. Not a regular mom. So I would say let her live her life a little bit because there's a chance if you start to come down heavy that she's just going to pull away. But doing the family budget around the kitchen table is not to be underestimated. It sounds like it's so obvious obvious but nobody does it with the kids

so the kids don't know how much things cost you can imagine kids kicking off when they're not getting bought the designer goods or whatever it might be she's a little bit older she's in her 20s but she's not been to uni she's got a job sit around the table and be like okay so how much money have we got coming in this month mortgage is this because that's going to be her one day and that's building up those good money habits isn't it if she knows what it takes to run run a household she might have a little bit more empathy for her mum and I think taking so many off her is really good money muscle as well so when I lived at home with my mum not for a long time like that we're really privileged and well very well looked after we I think I paid I contributed to groceries yes so and my mum was like

you contribute to groceries you don't have to pay rent but I want you to save for your house deposit well I was just about to say because I was like did you pay mum

and she saved up for you because I just thought that's a good idea no I was told I was like you don't think that's a good idea because you're not it's not doing the thing

oh I have to do the thing yeah it's not doing the thing it's like open an ISA literally that it was like stood over me so many people say to me especially where they've got it's not doing the thing. Oh, I have to do the thing. Yeah, it's not doing the thing. It's like open an ISA. Literally that. It was like stood over me. So many people say to me, especially where they've got

like privileged parents where they go, oh, they pay rent but we're putting it aside for them. I'm like, you're not like, you're teaching them about rent. Yes, great.

That is important. But don't do it for them. This is where they can't be trusted. They'll dip into it. And you then like, I don't know. So I have a big thing about that. You're going to put it here.

I want you to open up a nice, I want you to set up the direct debit because that's the bit that's missing for everybody. It's the self, because you have to teach them self-control. I think that's what's really important. When we've got the money playbook,

the money playbook is designed to help you nail one thing at a time. And so with your daughter, I feel like amazing that she's got such a good job in recruitment, by the way, earning potential massive. So the big problem here is

commission. And so if she will raise her living standards, like the parcels will double or they'll get bigger. There will be signs. There will be signs that you've got the bonus.

Do you know what I mean? Like there's a real danger. That's going to be hard to manage for her, isn't it? If you don't help her navigate as the salary increases, this will just continue. And in fact, it can exacerbate it,

especially if you suddenly get used to a higher standard of living and it drops for whatever reason. She's going to walk in with a cane. A cane? Like a pimp cane. Oh, like a rich person's cane. She's a crutch. And so, for example, as you talked about with the family budget but a different spin on that is

helping her do a budget is a great thing but not being controlling and teaching her the first thing that we're teaching them is you need to spend less than comes in yeah so you write what's coming in and as long as there's something left first month and what are we going to do with it yeah but even at first i suspect be given she's having to borrow money end of the month she's not managing even to do that so even if we can break even month one and not have to borrow money you've just like jumped so far in your money development that's massive the net you go okay we can now do that we're still able to go out we're still able to you know have beauty done we're still able to um buy parcels from

wherever next one is okay can we do can we save 250 quid and um and actually you owe me that so you give me that i would by the way be making sure that you're holding her accountable to the money that she owes you because as soon as she moves out that'll just go on credit yeah or she'll they'll always just be another way to yeah she'll let she'll find a line of credit money it's an interesting one that about lending money i think there's one thing where um like when we're in our first jobs and we're trying to navigate money we always like go bougie early on in the month and like it's not easy it takes a long time to work out and so we've known situations where people have had to lend their children money so that they can pay for fuel to get to you know or I've no money for groceries like I've yeah I've but you know

that they've been out you know that they've got like a new outfit and stuff and it's just all that learning so I think not being too harsh there but but stopping being a line of credit for someone if she's run out of money what does she need that money for if it's fuel like okay I'll pay for your fuel I'll pay for a bit of food but I'm not funding you then like you know going for a nice coffee together you'll be like so you don't need to borrow money from this month because we've accounted for everything so you're welcome like but like yeah little bit firstly can we balance the budget next time can we beat the budget and have an excess left over and can that go towards something like for example savings or paying any debt that she has?

And just showing her that you can have stuff. You can buy shit you don't need if you want to. I mean, you shouldn't. You should have a list like Lydia. But if you don't have a list, then start making that list and allow yourself spending. Because, oh my God, you know, when you're in your 30s and you may or may not have children,

you're definitely going to be bottom of the list. Or when you're really intensely saving for a house, you will start going without. So enjoy this like you know job and and life but the the more of an excess you can encourage her to grow per month means that when she eventually flies the nest and when she eventually buys her own place or rents you're just gonna have peace of mind she's not gonna ring you for money and that's not because you don't want to lend her money it's because you'll know she's got her shit together she needs a t-shirt she needs a t-shirt okay my

money's shit together i also she's never going to move out if it carries on also if you're really good at home just stay there just carry on no i think it's all smoke and mirrors because her mum's like i'm not quite sure how much she gets paid i'm not sure how much she's like she could be in debt she could have credit cards and it doesn't sound like they're very like overly open about money so just having a budget. But this child seems like 22 I think. So young but how good would it be to get your money shit together at 20? I know I know. The dream. That is the dream and it is so young that um that also fair fair game for mum to get involved. Yeah. So young. Definitely. Do you know know i mean this isn't

like you know you're 40 can i have a look at your bank account like what you're spending your money on it's like dungeons and dragons if you could see your child like physically unhealthy you'd want to make them better for life so if you know like yeah what's the difference yeah there's no different but people with money so to be the like oh i think she gets paid this i'm not quite sure if she's in debt and i'm not quite sure it's like if it was healthy you'd be like right we're going to the doctor like you're not very well and i want you to be well and live a healthy life if so if more parents it's because it's an education thing could teach their children about money education at an early age in the 20s we wouldn't be left with all this shit in our mid 30s 40s 50s maybe the child only do that if you think your parents

have got their shit together because like it can open up a can of worms if they're like what do you earn yeah how oh will you earn that okay well you you know he's paying this yeah no no i'm fully enough struggling it might backfire just don't take my advice okay time for a community win a huge thank you for being so open about money education. As a kid, I was never taught anything about money and I didn't learn anything until I met my partner in my 20s. I'd only ever seen borrowing, renting electricals and furniture, begging you to pay rent later, etc. I ended up getting myself in all sorts of debt but I'm now 34 I've paid it all off I'm also learning to curb the impulse spending and that's thanks to people like you who are sharing the knowledge that so many people just don't get early enough

love that one it was very apt do you know what was cool like you said it was actually her partner that she'd learned good habits from like we probably don't talk about that but we talk about money personalities and sometimes in a relationship depending on background and depending on who's been in your life and who's taught it you that you've got either natural tendencies whether it's just in your characteristics and in your personality or whether it's like learned I guess that's nature or nurture isn't it but um I love it when couples can like teach each other about different things and that's your new family. Do you know what I mean?

Just because your family wasn't great doesn't mean you can't learn new or unlearn bad. I mean, we're here to help you with that, obviously, and running the financial app and the community will help you with it. But how cool that a partner can show you a new way, like safely and can't, I just, yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I love that one.

I love it you go girl if you would like your win featured in the podcast head to the community in the app or email us at the vault at financial.com okay time for dilemma number two we can't afford to have children hi ladies I would love to hear your opinion on what me and my partner have decided as I want to know if we've made the right choice so me and my my partner, mid-30s, have decided it would be too much of a financial struggle to start a family. A few years ago we thought we might be in a better position by now but no, our salaries have stayed relatively similar while our living costs have gone up. We're both very good with money, we have never had more than a couple hundred pounds in credit

card debt but have been leached by the expensive London, South of England rent prices over the years. Our work is really only in this region, so it's not an option for us to move. Some of our friends have had a lot of financial support from their parents so they could have children. Others have been stung by childcare fees and the general cost of kids and have racked up a lot of debt. I know priorities change when you have a family, but there really is nothing we could physically cut back on. It's sad, but I

don't want to be a stressed parent. I grew up in a poor home and it's taken me 15 years to get to the point in my life where I'm not constantly panicked about how little money I have. I dread having that feeling again and potentially with a young child. Is this the right decision to choose not to have a family for these reasons? This is the reality of so many people. A few years ago, before cost of living crisis as it keeps being badged, and before really the, like London's always been more expensive, the South has always been more expensive,

but it really is at such a tipping point now where it's not easy to navigate. People would say, oh, it's always expensive having kids. It's never a good time. You know, the kind of older generations would say that. And I honestly, I think I truly believed it, where there's never a good time. It's always going to be expensive. And that's true of lots of things.

There's always a reason not to do something. But actually, there's such a big math issue here for so many people that I can absolutely understand why couples are having this decision. I think what I would like to hope, and we don't know the details, is she's made quite a lot of assumptions that are just black and white.

So we do this for a job and we can all live in the South. Well, this is where you go what do i want to do for work unless do i want to have a family unless you're working in buckingham palace that's not true well no exactly and i think the world's gone a bit more remote now but we don't know like she could be train driver in london but again you can be a train driver somewhere else it's great strikes sounds like a good life and i'm kidding by the way but you know but i think that this is where it's really helpful,

so hard for women, by the way, with the age, window, pressure, fertility, like all stacking on top of life. Making a decision quickly. Yeah, exactly. Like you can't wait until you've got a bit more savings because you don't know. So it's so stressful.

So if anyone going through that, oh my God, like hats off to you. And there's lots of people, lots more people go through this than you think. So chat, like feel free to talk to people about this because it's a big, big issue for people, whether it's, like I said, we've not even talked about fertility as part of that,

which so many people have to navigate. But I think it is about stepping back and going, like what life do I want? It sounds like children are important to them because I think there's such a good movement now, which is actually, I don't think I want children. And that is so empowering because it was the default. It was seen as strange not to have, but it's not always necessarily connected to lifestyle. But for some people it is. It's, I like this routine and I like my life and I don't want to compromise that. I like being around children.

It's not no offense, but they're just not for me. Whereas other people actually also say they're just not for me. So I think that's a, that's a big thing where we're not always now just doing what people think we should do. People are a lot more empowered, but if children are really, really important for you, you have to remove some of the mental blockers around what you can and can't do. There's a maths problem with this is income these are expenses and this is what it would be like income can change what can you do to change income whether it's changing careers changing jobs because lots of people do manage to have children in the south what can you collectively do about it because even one of you changing job or salary can have a massive impact can have a massive impact but then also can you have a career if children this is all about you can't have

everything you can have anything but you can't have everything so if children is important as well for a period of time especially as you're trying to get them to school and then hopefully costs can come down a little bit depending on on wraparound care could you have a career change for a period of time that allows you to live somewhere else that doesn't mean that you have to live in a particular postcode? Sounds like they don't have much family help, which is also another impact on costs. Like people have a big privilege when they have babysitting on tap. They don't understand what it takes to send a child to nursery five days a week. They're completely naive about what it is to live in the real world when it comes to childcare and finances.

So yeah, hopefully it's... The fact that she's written in to me means that she really cares about having children because why would you write in you're like she obviously does oh why would you write in to ask the question if you if it didn't really mean that that takes a lot doesn't it to write in and ask that kind of question so obviously children are on the brain and I don't believe it's because she cares what people think in that we don't want them so you know we're getting judged no no she's like the reason we're not having them is because we can't afford them so that's the only reason that's not an emotional problem that's a mass

problem little though like emotional with them she's yeah which is fascinating actually and I feel like there's definitely you want to protect her headspace because there's no it's really hard being a parent full stop by god but to have it when you're not in the right headspace is even harder one thing i would say is that she's got the gift of preparation so some people fall pregnant and unexpectedly and have to suddenly find a way to make the maths work but if she's if they're thinking about that that could be a possibility you you have got time on your hands like you said fertility obviously so that has to be considered as well we don't know the backstory but some people start to plan to take on extra like you've not got kids now can you take an extra job if you've got a little bit of access start putting it away like I can't tell you how I wish that I would have done that before

I went on maternity leave because the stress of buying even like nappies in Aldi and being like oh my god like they've gone up again and they need to buy nappies again and And wipes and formula. And it can get a little bit overwhelming, especially when you're on a lesser salary because you're on maternity leave. Even things like from the minute a, I believe, from the minute a baby's born, you can start paying into their childcare account. Yeah. And I didn't know things like that. And you get free. You get a top up, you get a tax break from the government to pay for childcare. So you don't need it yet though, one week old we called you're looking after them but when they're nine months old or 12 months old and going to nursery grateful for it you've got a little pot and we did that with um ali the last the last baby we just said oh let's start putting money into it and it kind of grows and then then

you're starting off with a chunk you've got buffer then i think yeah no you have so there's definitely and and what i would say is parents are nothing if resourceful and so there are so many hints tips hacks you know it takes a village there will be other people in your situation where you can share care you can optimize the cost of care yeah they've got friends who have children and everything yeah it's more it's much more like normal now and sustainable to share clothes and share items oh my god my mum's on facebook marketplace every week for a new like thing for the kids but luckily then if we want it we just recycle it yeah who else would like this giraffe or cat castle or whatever this week so and kids babies don't need

a lot everyone always buys the stuff they do the nursery they paint the nursery they buy your cot they buy your wardrobe they buy this they buy that they literally need nothing for like a long time you don't need the molly may nursery no maybe number three versus one is a whole really a whole different i mean he himself up he has pink bubbles in his hair everyone's like she's lovely i'm like i know she is she's not getting blue bubbles until we're running out of the pink ones but i know and again this is all with a pinch of salt even so for us to say but i think there's some really important messages there, which is one, really think about what's important to you and then workshop it like it's a work project.

What can you change? What can you do? Even if it's not forever, it's for a period of time. The early years are the most expensive and draining on your mind, on your bank balance. But then secondly, really open yourself up to what the cost of it would be um because there's so much you can do to hack your way through it and and you'll you'll find a way i think i think you'll know what's the level of that's too far and that's not a lifestyle

that that we want but you know we talked about dinks the other day didn't we dual income no kids I was about to say Lydia do you remember dink yeah goals dink what or dink what or dink war what was war with a rabbit dual income no kids with a rabbit

with buns bunnies with buns or bread really good bread because you've not got kids Buns. With buns. Bunnies. Yeah. Sorry, buns. Buns. Buns. With buns. Buns. Or bread. Like, I'm here for the bread. Really good bread because you've not got kids

and you've got buns. I want to know what dinkwads get up to at the weekend. Tell us. Tennis. Gail. What's it run?

Dog. With a dog. Dog walk. No, dinks. Sorry, dink. I thought you were going to get a dog. I thought we were going to get a cat. Dinkwack.

Dinkwack. What's dinkwack? What's life as a dinkwack you were going to get a dog I thought we were going to get a cat dink whack dink whack what's dink whack what's life is a dink whack but I look like it was the picture that we could live by oh my god don't so I'm going to wake up

is it a struggle is it have to stroke the cat are you okay we need to make sure she's okay to decide which aesthetic bakery

you're going to walk to yeah take some selfies with the cat you know what I mean poor you poor life oh it'd be for

horse empire think we're think we're the debt free horse empire debt free we're different rolls off the

table no she likes people without kids I know we just found a conversation about kids but those those with kids

are not a lot of time I am throwing shade at people without kids enjoy the lions enjoy the bakery enjoy the selfie enjoy the clean oh no we wouldn't i am okay any final words before we close the vault do you know what one on personal finance being personal. And so we'd like, this is a money show

where we do try and lean into the big life questions that people have. And this, it's really sad that that is, this is one of them. Like I said, we've not even talked about fertility and the costs that are really involved in trying for a baby, never mind then eventually having them. And so for something that's so simple for some people is so difficult for others, there's then this other movement of, I mean, I can't make a decision about anything. So the fact that women have to do do I, don't I,

and there's a time on that, it's just another level. Like the biggest irreversible decision. Like it changes your whole life like it changes your whole life it changes your whole life I saw something on TikTok or Instagram that was talking about like your um your parents weren't always parents they had a life before you that's so weird I was like no they weren't all they've ever done is look sad to me didn't they fake news but it really made me like picture you know

of my mum and dad and what life was like when they just got up and sorted themselves out and knocked me and my children out like that I always think about life before me

because I was called Tasmanian Devil so you know imagine they were like they had me and they were like shall we have another

yeah do you know like the first child in films when the thunder comes, when a child's born that's like to a witch or something, it's like, thunder, darkness. Yeah, don't they say the oldest child is the one that convinces you to have the next one

and then the youngest one is the one that tells you to stop? Yeah, if Holly was first, she'd have been another child. She'd have told it. I've been told that a few times. Red and screaming and crying do we yeah like something's

never changed my brother came out like chill dude I came out like ah he's older I'm younger

you're the youngest yeah I put a stop to the child apparently I was an excellent baby they'd take me to restaurants

I would just sit there stare at people and they took me to Vegas when I was one that explains. They'd take me to restaurants. I would just sit there and stare at people. And they took me to Vegas when I was one. That explains a lot. So you couldn't wait 20 years, could you? No. On that note, we didn't preamble this.

We didn't do the preamble that I envisaged. For those that don't know, we bought Lydia the sock. Oh, yeah. Century sock. Made it out of the sock. Oh yeah, century sock. Made it out of the pod. I can't remember what episode it was, so therefore you have to listen to them all and work out which one it was. It's number seven.

Number seven. So six episodes ago, it was on her list of dreams. What is the list? Just explain the list quickly before we close. I think it's called shit I shouldn't't shit i want to buy but shouldn't i think you've got quite a few ticked off now i have i've got loads ticked off so the list is empty are we building it back up let me look at it let me get one of the things on it was a human sensory sock so there was a lot of debate a lot of questions in that came in going what the hell is that it's very soothing anytime i'm stressed i climb in the sock and it's like a hug we need to bring it on

the pod we bought it we bought it i think we could edit in and on youtube we need the sock so if you're watching you're gonna be able to physically i'm just gonna sit behind you and don't acknowledge it yeah i'll just be in the song so if we encourage lydia to build up this list because what she does with this list is it stops her spending but our fun is we buy it for her and so if there's anything on the list guys it'll be really good for stories if we get lydia and her free horse empire so we're gonna challenge her to build up the list we'll ask her again and then you can tell us what i'm going to put on the list and i get stuff as well can you put her a new one is um a crochet penguin kit actually that's not that one stay on the list as well no i said you're not having that sorry it keep me busy in the evenings

wrap yourself up in a sock you't want to go on a swing take yourself to local park final words should we buy the crocheted penguin kit or should she stick to one of her other thousand hobbies yeah okay that's all for this episode the vault is now closed if you'd like to send in your dilemmas please send them to the vault at financial.com and just a quick disclaimer the vault is a chat around life and money topics, and we are not giving financial advice.