The Vergecast - Apple Intelligence, iPhones, and the rest of WWDC 2024

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

The Verge's Nilay Patel, Alex Cranz, Allison Johnson, and David Pierce discuss all the announcements from Apple's WWDC event. Further reading: Apple WWDC 2024: the 13 biggest announcements   Apple Intelligence: every new AI feature coming to the iPhone and Mac  Apple is giving Siri an AI upgrade in iOS 18  Apple announces iOS 18 with new AI features and more customizable homescreen Apple says iPhones will support RCS in 2024   Apple’s AI can make custom emoji and images iOS 18 introduces satellite capabilities to its iMessage app Apple announces iPadOS 18 with a built-in calculator and customizable homescreen  Apple made an iPad calculator app after 14 years The iPhone’s new Game Mode makes it faster and more responsive  Apple announces watchOS 11 with new training features and Live Activitie Apple announces macOS Sequoia at WWDC 2024  Apple’s standalone Passwords app syncs across iOS, iPad, Mac, and Windows  Apple’s AirPods are being upgraded with powerful accessibility features   Apple’s InSight feature for Apple TV Plus will tell you who that actor is Apple teases new seasons of Severance and Silo Apple announces visionOS 2 with 3D photo transformations and an ultrawide Mac display Apple is finally launching the Vision Pro outside the US Canon made a special lens for the Apple Vision Pro’s spatial videos  Email us at [e-mail] or call us at 866-VERGE11, we love hearing from you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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David pointed out that you can pick any phrase from Apple's white paper about privacy and AI, and we're the flagship podcast of that. I picked leaky user data earlier, but we don't want to get the explicit label on YouTube and Spotify. Yeah, it's a family-friendly podcast. Stateless computation on personal data. I'm your friend Eli. We're here at WWDC. David Pierce is here. Hello. We're in this fancy house. It's awesome. It is a very fancy house. Alex Cranz is here. I love that it smells like tacos in here. That's our fault. Yeah, it's delicious. It's fully our fault. A lot of Vurchase fans have wanted us to talk about the tacos. And we will, if you get through the entire episode, including the ad breaks.

Later on, Allison Johnson will be joining us. We are at WWDC. Apple announced updates to every single one of its operating systems. No hardware, as was rumored. and I think the most important set of announcements, Apple Intelligence, which is the company's approach to AI, which has many, many, many components, including all the way at the end, a little old chat GPT 40. Yeah, just a little. There it is.

Just shut up Wall Street. That's pretty much what it was. You want us to have a chat GPT strategy? Here it is. It's just chat. So David and I are walking around the event. We're walking to Apple Park. The vibe was very much like,

what is GPT doing here? Like, they were excited about it. They were talking about it. But they kept on talking about all the stuff they had built. Yeah. In the keynote, their principles for how to build it, how they're going to protect user privacy. There was a second on-the-record event where I Justine interviewed John Gene Andrea, who's their head of AI and Craig Federigi. They recapitulated the keynote and said the principles and values again.

And then they kept being, and then some people are going to want to use chat chubc. And it was just like, I think all the lead-up was like, Are they going to pick Google? Are they going to pick Open AI? They're behind. They got to catch up. These models will power the stuff. And David, it just felt like they could have done without it.

Well, there was the assumption going in that if they were going to sign a deal like this, it was going to be to sort of underpin all of this stuff, right? That, like, in the sense that when you go to Safari and you do a search, you get Google, right? You don't get it like a mishmash of Apple and Google when it's useful. Like, it's just Google, because that's the one that Apple picked and also billions of dollars is fun. But the assumption then was like, okay, this will be a Siri based on Gemini. Apple doesn't have the technology yet. Apple hasn't been able to compete with Open AI and others, so they're going to build on top of this infrastructure, which, as we've talked about,

has all kinds of weird privacy implications, but in a certain way, kind of makes sense. Instead, it's just like a weird thing off to the side where Apple made a huge deal out of all the stuff that it has built. It says it can do a ton. It's built this incredibly vertically integrated system that it says preserve your privacy and knows it's on the screen and then like you said oh and also chat gpt and so it's it feels like just a an afterthought because it's a really good brand that people know it does actually feel like the google thing because it's in that it's only being used for search right like that that was that was my it's not even being used for search in that way it's it would be like if you only took google images yeah everything else was apple except google

images. And so if you do a search for a picture, you get Google and everything else is Apple. And you'd be like, what, this doesn't make any sense. Because the integration is like, you just, you ask. And then if it decides that it doesn't want to do it and it wants chat GPT to do it. Well, no, so we should step through it. Yeah. The big headline feature we should talk about is Apple intelligence. Yep. The way the keynote was structured was to put all of that stuff at the end. It was the grand finale of it was the one more thing. WDC. Neil like me at one point during the live blog as they, they hit like a wrap-up moment. Yeah.

Before they did the Apple Intelligence stuff. And the Eli just turns to me and he goes, is that it? Yeah. Like, are we- Because they ran through all the OSS's. Yeah. Which we'll get to later. But they ran through all the OSs and all. Here's the new grid of icons on the home screen.

Look, you can put the icons everywhere. Here's TVOS. We didn't do anything. And then they came to like a natural wrap-up point. And then Tim Cook came back and he was like, power of generative, intelligence, blah, blah, blah. Here's all the stuff we're doing. And they laid out a bunch of principles. It has to be powerful.

It has to be useful. It has to be private. They've built this extraordinarily complicated system where your device decides whether it can do some of the things that you might want it to do or it has to go to Apple's private cloud compute nodes, which we should definitely talk about. Lots of privacy claims there. And then it's not. And then it goes to chat, GPT. Okay. That's Apple intelligence.

And the heart of almost all these announcements are like, here's some stuff you can do in your phone or your Mac. Here's some stuff that we built this very complicated system to do in the cloud securely. And then also, there's a button here where if you want to take a picture of your fridge and ask it to make up a recipe, you can send a photo to chat GPT if you'd like. Also, we're going to ask you if you ever want to do that. And every time you do it, we're going to say, do you want to send this photo to chat GPT? You know, so there's no, there's almost no integration. Oh, that is like, yeah, that's the opposite. I had not thought about this until just now.

I think that's on purpose. I think that's like extremely on purpose. Yeah. Because what Apple is trying to do is like abstract all of the AIS away, right? You as a user shouldn't have to care or notice what's going to the cloud and what's happening on device. They want it to all be secure. Should all work the same.

Like, fine. Apple wants it to be damn clear when you are using chat GPT because chat GPT is going to make mistakes. It's going to do a lot of weird stuff. And Apple would very much like to be like, hey, remember when you hit a button that said chat GPT, like, this is no longer our problem. Even the prompt is like sometimes we'll make errors. Yeah, at the bottom of every result that says check important info. Rood. Which is just chat GP's reputation now. Yeah. This thing lies to you. That's even, that's even crueler than like chat GPT's typical thing, which is just like sometimes it makes mistakes. Apple is like this thing screwed up. But there's a real line there. That's what I'm

saying it felt like the vibe was, we did all the stuff. Also, this is here, so don't ask us about it. Right? Like, yeah. They said Craig Federigi at the, I don't even know what you call this. It was an interview, but it was like, it was very staged. He said that Gemini would be an example of another LM they could bring into this. And he said there will be others. We heard people talk about like, what if you're a doctor and there's a medical AI system that you want to plug into your Mac in this way. The hooks are being built so that you'll have multiple models you can pick from. So ChatGBTGBT is just the one they're starting with today because I kept saying it's the

market leader. They think it's the best one of these things. They can integrate in all these places. Over time, it's obvious that Apple intelligence, this much more private system, is going to get better and maybe push one out, or there's going to be like competition and you get to pick whatever model you want. So is it effectively just advertisement for the API then? I think, I suspect, I do not know that Apple is paying Open AI to have this built into their operating systems.

I don't know how they're getting paid. I don't know if it's per use. I don't know if it's a bulk rate, whatever. I know that OpenAI doesn't make any money. Famously, they have not yet made any money. Microsoft owns 49% of Open AI. It would be very funny if Microsoft was putting money into OpenAI. and Open AI was paying Apple

for the privilege of being an Apple's operating, like that would be almost backwards. So the logical assumption is that Apple is paying to have this be part of their operating system and maybe they will pay other companies over time. Or there will be some other kind of arrangement you can have. You can log in, if you have a subscribe

at our chat GPT, you can log into your account and you get more features. It will remember you, for example. Whereas if you don't have a chat GPD account. You're not paying for premium. It doesn't remember anything about you. It's free. It's free to use on your iPhone. It has no memory and it throws everything out about you. So they have built this like very firewalled version of chat GPT. That's just around. Yeah.

But all of the action is Apple intelligence, which is totally controlled by Apple. That makes a hundred, like that just makes sense. Apple was never going to let anybody that tightly integrated into this. These are not the rumors, right? No. Well, and it also makes the chat GPS. piece of it make less sense to me, right? Because if open AI is paying Apple, that I understand, right? Like, I get that for OpenAI. They say, okay, this is going to make people use our product more, which is going to make more people subscribe. That's, that's the path. We get user data, whatever. But Open AI, in the way that it's set up now, seems to be getting most of the upside and all Apple gets is just like a weird way to offload you to another system for some questions

that you have. It's very much like to do the good fun stuff, it has to be not private. And that's Sam Altman's problem. We're going to have this. So the architecture... So the risk then is that if you don't have that, all you get is kind of a not fully baked AI system that people don't use, and so you're sort of lost from the beginning?

Yeah, and I think one of the really interesting pieces of the puzzle here is we don't know how much of these features will arrive with iOS 18 at the beginning. We don't know how many are coming towards the end. Every time they talked about Siri, I kept noticing that they insistedly used

like often the distance verb tenses Siri is going to be able to do this and it's like when is Siri going to be able to do this the answer appears to be within the window of iOS 18 so Siri will be able to do a bunch of the stuff they demoed before iOS 19 comes out

but not necessarily a long time from now yeah yeah like that's September 2025 is the release date of iOS 19 So there's a long way to go before they have to ship all these features. But the fundamental architecture of Apple intelligence is really interesting because they are claiming very much that the on-device intelligence that they've built. They said there are already 200 models running your phone before we ever do any of this generative stuff. For things like car crash detection and photo editing and all photos in general on an iPhone, tons of AI.

And now they're adding some of these other models. it's only going to run on the iPhone 15 Pro, and presumably the next one, and then max with an M1 chip or above. So that's interesting because the M1, I think, is more similar to some of the previous iPhone chips. Yeah. But they are gating it.

So it's the 15 Pro and above and M1 and above, obviously running the new version's operating system, and it's going to add more models that let you do more stuff on the phone. So you will be able to generate horrifying images on the phone based on what's happening your photos. You'll be able to

ask Siri for certain things using App Intents, which we talked about a bunch last week. But it's only using the data on your device, right? Only using the data on your device. Which is why all of the images

from the image playground that we saw in the keynote were horrible. They were so bad. They were like, it was like, do you remember how when you're downloading an app and it's like,

do you want to download any of these other games that you've never heard of and are probably going to steal your data. Like, all the art looked like those apps. Yeah. So that's Image Playground, which is all local. And, yeah, it looks bad. It looks real bad.

But Image Playground is a thing you can just integrate into apps now. So you can draw a sketch and notes and circle it. And then it will make the AI bubble. Then I'll turn your sketch into a thing. Is that anything? I'm sort of seriously. I think I have been thinking about this so much the last few weeks about, like, how, what in AI is a real thing that people will do and what is going to be a tech demo that no one in

the world ever actually does. And I'm thinking about this actually ever since Rabbit did the demo where he drew a spreadsheet on a piece of paper and then pointed his rabbit to it and was like transposed the rows and columns and send this to my email. And it did it. And it was like, oh, neat. Unusable feature for anyone who exists in the world. Like why on earth would you do this? And I wonder with this thing where he's like, there was a moment in the keynote where he was in notes and he just did a circle in a note, in an open part of the note, and it made a picture of the stuff that was in his note. And it's like, A, technically neat thing, it made a thing. Why? What is this for? No, I figured it out. It's when, you know, when you have to send a deck and you don't want to go

look for art to send that deck to, like, all your other co-workers to be like, this is why we're going to do this new policy or whatever. Okay, that's actually, that's actually... You can really tell that Alex used to be the managing under. Yeah, right. She had to explain a lot of false. I know. I don't, I think I don't make enough decks to like be yeah yeah you're you're steward of the world i need to make more decks yeah you're you make me an installer deck you can entirely but there's other stuff that will happen locally in the phone like um the new iOS you get uh i i powered summaries of your notifications and they previewed this with a very like like the stock thing that everyone previews everything with which is like your friends are planning a trip in a group text and it's like

so-and-so booked a house so the first date is this and so-and-so is going to be late i'm like none of my friends are this transactional. They do not communicate this way. It's going to be like, your law school friends are shit posting again. Some of these images are not safe for work, right? And it's like, what will he have to do with this? So like there's a real, I think,

just gap between sort of these demos, like these ideas of what you can do on the phone, the reality of how powerful your phone might have to be, and then like what actually is happening on people's phones. And then at some point, and we don't really know when, the phone's going to say, I don't have the horsepower to do this, or my battery life will be too compromised,

or the thermals are out of whack, and it will create a secure connection to Apple's secure private compute cloud service that is running Apple Silicon somewhere, and that whole mechanism is Apple's innovation. Like, at the end of the day, Apple running a bunch of tiny models on device and a bunch of bigger models in the cloud

is what everyone is doing. Some of the user experiences they are delivering are exactly the same ones as we've seen demoed by other companies. Apple's much better in telling you a compelling story about those user interface ideas. But it's the same stuff.

We're going to read all your email and make you a list of flights. Like, yeah, we saw that at I.O. Right. That's Microsoft just demoing. But the big innovation is they're saying, we're doing this all on your device

as much as we can, and when we have to go up to the cloud, we've built this whole system to keep that secure. And then importantly, throw your data away on the cloud when we're done. So there's no chance of being compromised. Right.

That whole chain is supposed to be exactly as secure as just doing it on your device. Yeah. Which just instinctively, I don't believe because that's not a thing. You've just, you've taken a thing that was on my device and you've put it somewhere else. And so now by definition it's less secure. But at least to Apple's credit, it does seem like it has done just about everything you can do to mitigate that. Yeah, it's kind of like, it seems to be just as secure as possible.

With still acknowledge, but refusing to acknowledge that it is still way less secure than everything just being on your device. Right. Because it's like, yeah, this is probably one of the most secure ways you can transfer this information. You are still transferring this information. And that means you open yourself up to other people inserting themselves. Right. And there's all kinds of potential for weirdness if you have network problems. Or again, like it turns out sending a bunch of data to the web and the cloud is also taxing on your battery life.

and thermal. This stuff is hard. And I think doing all of this super seamlessly, if Apple can pull it off is going to be like the true magic trick of this whole system. Yeah. So the basics are complicated. They just released a white paper about how it all works. It is very dry.

Oh, my God. Alex, I believe your read on it was they don't want people to read this. No. You sure don't. But there are some interesting pieces of it, right? Craig Federi described one part of the system as blockchain-ish, which is actually a great description. So your phone, when it goes to talk to one of these servers,

if they have not published the code for researchers to verify the security of the code to an append-only cryptographically signed database, blockchain-ish, that your phone can check, it just won't talk to that server. Right? So like your man in the middle attack there, like they're trying to cut that down. There's a line in the white paper that says, we do not want there to be targetability.

So it's not like you have a Mac in the cloud. There's a huge array of devices in the cloud, and they don't want any one of those to be associated with you. So your device, when it asks for a server to run some of these workloads on, it actually will only ever get a group, and it won't know which one is in the end. And then that load balancer is also hardened, so you can't attack it. So no, like, attacker can be like, okay, they always get that one.

And it's not sending all the data in plain text. But it's not storing a database of everything you've ever done on your computer in plain text. Yeah. Like Windows recall. Although Microsoft did say they were going to fix it. This is just a bunch of stuff like that. One of the more interesting pieces, the servers run a custom operating system that Apple says in the white paper is a combination of macOS and iOS that is designed just for inference loads. They've cut down all the other attack surfaces.

And then the hardware itself, in addition to all their usual. like security measures. They have additional layers of security when they make the hardware, ship it to the data center, and validate it for installation. And also there's a large man with a gun just standing next to each one.

Well, I think some of that stuff is in this white paper. They talk about it. It's in this blog post. Because if you recall, there's a huge Bloomberg story about Apple's data centers being attacked at the supply chain level. And I think they're like, yeah,

we're not, That's not even a possibility here. Yeah. So they're saying all of these things about how the system will work. I think the most important thing they're saying is we want researchers to come in and validate this stuff over and over and over again. Yeah. The firmware for these devices, they're going to publish it in plain text and look at it. So I think there's this level of we want to take the pressure on the system.

At the same time, the pressure is not necessarily technical. The pressure is legal and political. like the Chinese government doesn't give a shit. They're just going to say if you want to keep selling iPhones in China, you're going to have to let us see everything. Right. What do you do about that? The Indian government is

probably not going to give a shit. Like, they just want to see things. They just had some elections. It's a little softened over there, but like, who knows? Right. Like, that's the pressure around the world. Our FBI here in the United States has repeatedly tried to pressure Apple into turning over encryption keys to iMessage and iCloud.

This is a new vector of attack. to say, okay, you're moving personal device off of people's phones into the cloud. There is something called the third-party doctrine in this country that says, if anything touches your telecom provider or a cloud service, you no longer have a reasonable expectation of privacy because a third party has seen it, and now the government can see it too. Apple's answer to this is we're going to throw it all away as soon as we're done processing in the cloud and we send your result back, and so we don't even have it to turn it over,

but the pressure is going to keep coming. So it's interesting that the technical side, they've tried to button it up as much as they can. The legal and political side, they want to keep selling phones in China. Yeah. It's just a big we'll see. Yeah. It's like we're just going to see how people react. That problem. That problem doesn't cease to exist even if you don't have this system for Apple, right? Like this is just, this is just the price of doing business in Apple's or in China. Yeah. So fundamentally, like, Apple made that decision a very long time ago. Yeah. And this is just another version of that same decision. What it seems like here is Apple is trying to give it cell fun out for the rest of the world's versions of those legal and political problems where it can just be like, sorry, we don't have it to give you.

Like, I don't know what you want. Right. They sort of engineered a technical solution to a legal problem. Right. Well, this is the thing you hear a lot now from people who are building web services is like the main thing you should do is make sure you don't have one shred of data that you don't absolutely need. Because if you accidentally store a bunch of people's credit card numbers, somebody's going to hack it. and they're going to get it, and that's going to suck real bad for you. If you have a bunch of people's email addresses and passwords for accounts that don't really matter to you,

same thing's going to happen. Like, all this stuff. And so these data minimization practices are not just, like, good for the world, even though I think they are, but it's just good business practice. And so it's like, for Apple, if they're sincerely not turning around and training more models on that data or selling that data, both of which they say they're not, and I think I believe them, keeping that data is just a liability. Yeah. And so it's actually, it's smart for so many reasons to be like the minute you're done with it, it's just shredded and gone. We can't get it back if you want it.

Apple's ideal is that everything will eventually be on the phone. The process is that they don't have to send anything to the cloud, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think very clearly Apple's goal is to do more and more on device over time. I disagree. Really? Yeah. But not in like a meaningful way. I think when you say Apple's goal is to get it all on your phone, I think it's gone. The horse has left the station. It's been a long day. Horses, you keep horses in the station, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Horses left the barn. The train has left the station. The iPhone workload has left your phone. And I think what's going to happen is the phone will get more and more powerful. It'll take more workloads onto the phone, sure. But then you're going to invent more stuff you want to do, and now you've built this incredibly powerful, secure cloud, blah, blah, blah.

And you're going to do all the stuff. There will always be some level of stuff you can't do on a phone that now you can do up there. I think both of those things can be simultaneously true, right? Like, the private cloud compute is how you get rid of chat GPT. And like, ultimately at some point, if we go far enough down this road, Open AI and Apple will be naked competitors in this space.

Like, that's just where we're headed. And that's how you get rid of chat GPT needing to do all this stuff. I think every time Apple sends something out of Apple intelligence and into ChatGPT, that is going to look like failure to Apple for a whole variety of reasons. But it's still true, I think, that as the set of workloads gets larger, Apple is going to want to do more and more of them on your device because it's going to save them computing. Apple talked a bunch about the environmental impact of all of this stuff, and they make a big deal about the fact that the more you can do on your device, the less they have to send

anywhere, which is computationally expensive, costs electricity. It's just more efficient to do it on the device. So I think the push to do that stuff locally is going to be real. It probably won't ever be the whole answer, though. I think you're like in the bleeding edge stuff can happen in the compute cloud so that doesn't have to happen in Azure, which is a bummer if you're Apple. Yeah, I mean, that's what that's kind of what I'm getting. I disagree with you, but not in like some huge sense.

I just think there will always be some set of ideas that is too big for the phone. Yeah. And once you've opened the door to Apple saying we've built a system that allows us to take some stuff away from your phone and up into the cloud, which they're very proud of that all of their data centers run on 100% renewable energy, and Apple Silicon is already high performance per

watt. And like, they can do all this stuff where maybe they can solve some of those efficiency problems, right? Like, yeah, there. There's just going to be some set of stuff they can do in the cloud. So, like, this is like, today's the change. And like a year from now or two years from now, it'll just be part of the way the iPhone works is you have

access to private compute cloud. that no dumb Android it's right whereas like with Android you got send everything to Google which is like training on your emails

like whatever thing Apple's going to say so I just think this is the beginning of a change and that's really how they framed it all day long

was this is the beginning of a change like this is the next generation of these devices this is the next generation of how we use these apps David at one point he said you can

you can squint and you can see the end of the app era here in the way that they're talking about Siri there's just excitement in a way that I would, for example, contrast with the Vision Pro, which received 45 seconds of like, now you can look at your keyboard in immersive mode.

Ultra wide displays, thank you. But, you know, the way they talked about that product four months ago was like, we have to pretend this is the thing. And the way they talked about Apple Intelligence today was like, this is the thing that changes your experience with this phone forever. What is the cool stuff here? Because I mean, I obviously see there, or it wasn't there. I watched it here at this beautiful house.

The image playground I was really excited about. But I can just like do that right now with most online image generators. What are the other like? At higher quality. Yeah, yeah, right. They will look better. My shippost will be infinitely better with something else. What is cool?

Like we got chat GPT integration. We got image playground. We got emojis, which is like make your own emojis. that's cool, that rules. What's the other AI stuff? Like, what is this for? Oh, the math notes where it will like calculate the math? I think that's something and everything.

I don't think that's like AI, but it's the old. It's the old AI. I mean, this is the weirdest thing about all of the Apple Intelligence stuff is like, you and I kept accidentally disagreeing with each other in the live blog, which I really enjoyed. You kept saying so weird, we're 45 minutes in and there's been no AI. And I kept saying all they're talking about is AI. Because like every single one of these features,

it's just AI underneath. Yeah. It's not the AI they're talking about. And there is this, like, long spectrum of what is just software and what is AI and what is, like, new thing. And it's, it's all sort of compressing together. I mean, it's not as fuzzy as AI's definition is right now. For sure. But, like, the, the, everything on the iPad, pure AI.

And they didn't talk about it as AI at all. They, in fact, pulled it out of the thing where they talked about AI and talked about it separately. But I think all the intelligence stuff, to me, felt like, a sort of developer demo in a very real way, right? This is a developer conference, and I think it made me think of the Vision Pro thing, actually,

because to some extent, like what Apple is doing with all of this is saying, look, we built a bunch of really cool technology. Here it is. Please go do something interesting with it. And so far, the Vision Pro, not so much.

We'll get to that later. But I was kind of struck by the same thing. I was like, this is a lot of talk about the logistics of a compute cloud and not a lot of talk about features that people can use. And there was a bunch of Siri stuff, and I think we can talk about what's coming to Siri. But this idea, I think, especially of the sort of Siri app-intense thing,

where you can talk to your phone and it can do stuff on your device for you, that's the whole thing. Yeah. And I feel like Apple didn't weirdly sort of connect those dots today because they have this big idea of what Apple intelligence can be. They have to convince everybody that this is going to be humongous and, like, the size of, you know, the iPhone, as an industry, that's how you keep growing if you're Apple.

This whole thing I just could not stop thinking was like Apple executives talking to investors. Like in a very real way was them being like, please, we have a growth plan. We're going to be so successful. Don't let us be the third most valuable company anymore. Give it back to us. Well, I'll just give you the clearest evidence for this I can offer you. The keynote ended and we did not go to look at any demos. Yeah.

We went to, we had lunch. Yeah. It was fine. I eat the corporate food with an immense amount of guilt. So it was fine. It was, you know, Apple. They have a good chef at Cafe Max or whatever. But there was not like a thing where we like ran around playing with a bunch of AI stuff afterwards.

And I even think to some extent the OpenA. Partnership is so that no one is comparing Apple to Open AI. Oh, like I think the Open AI partnership is almost exclusively for investors rather than actual people. Well, see, we have to get the stuff. And, like, Craig said, any place you see a blinking text cursor is a place where you can use this integration in the system. That's pretty interesting. Well, a lot of it also felt like very Windows-y. Like, a lot of the biggest tools, the coolest stuff was like, oh, that's also stuff Microsoft announced.

Oh, yeah. Like, oh, we can convince an email. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. It's really, it's like genuinely insane to me how similar everybody is doing AI. Like, God help me if one more company is like, we have an idea for how to summarize your emails so that you can read them faster. Like, I'm good.

We have solved that problem that I don't think was a real problem. Did you see the fake email that they made nicer? It was actually very good. Was it? You should get the screen cap of this from the keynote. But they're like, you know, sometimes you write an email at work and it's a little too spicy and you make it nicer. And there's like, they flashed up a meat email. And it was like, guys, we have to stop doing this bullshit.

And you're like, oh, that's how Craig emails. I must insist that you like, blah, blah, blah, and they made it nicer. And it was like, gentlemen. I must once again ask that you stop fucking it up. Is it Jeff Bezos who is famous for forwarding customer emails to people with just a question mark? It's very good. I'm imagining now you take that to highlight the question mark and you're like, make this nice. And it's just like, hello, everyone.

Yeah. I received this email from a customer. There is a real part of this, to your point about features and only the six ideas. They are playing a little bit of catch up, right? Yeah. Microsoft's been out there. making Google dance this whole time. It's hard to demo features and say, like, we made it more personal until you get to Siri

and all the stuff they think Siri can do, which is you just ask Siri, what time I have to leave to get to my daughter's dance recital. This is the example that used 50 times. And then Siri has to know that you have a daughter and where she is and where that dance recital is, what your schedule is. I think Federer you pointed out, like, it has to know if you like using Uber or Lyft. Like, you just, you go down the list of things you do on your phone, and you need all what they call personal context to make it work. And right now, none of the other compute models we've seen pull this off.

Maybe Google will get there on Android. They're less good at making the people who work at Google talk to each other than Apple. But those are the only two companies that even can. There's only two companies that come close. And, like, Google, to some extent, was trying to show these ideas, right, in a less, like, focused way. Apple was straight up like, here's what you're going to do. You're going to pick up Siri. You're going to say, I've got to get to this dance recital, make it happen.

And then Siri is going to run off and tie into all the app and tents on your phone. It's going to book a thing. It's going to move a meeting. It's going to call it today. And you're going to get in a car and you're going to look at the dance recital. You're going to say, edit me a video. It was a fishing trip. That was the demo?

I went fishing. Make me a video of this fishing trip of my son learning to fish. And Siri is just going to talk to whatever video editing app is on your phone that you've chosen. It's going to, like, read all the videos for you. It's going to make a thing. It's going to pick a song about fishing from Apple Music. Here you go. Bob's your uncle.

You're all done. Right. And like this thing, those are the features. They need a bunch of developers to expose all the hooks. Right. So you can actually do it. I think it is very interesting that they're going to App Intense. They're not doing the stuff that we thought they might do, which is like screen reading

your phone and clicking around for you. I think everyone has realized like that idea sounds great but is ultimately not trustworthy. I think it would also break Apple's relationships with its developers. Yeah, it's also unnecessary if you have a gigantic developer ecosystem of people who are very happy to build stuff for your platform. But that means they have to be happy to build stuff for this platform. Right, which is super debatable right now, I feel like. Yeah, because this would also, your example, that means, okay, I'm not checking Outlook to find the email for when the recital is. I'm not checking Outlook to move this, you can tell I use Outlook.

To move my calendar around, I'm not going to into the Uber app myself. or the Lyft app, it's going to auto-chose all of that. Like, suddenly, that's lost revenue for a lot of different people, just to make my experience. Yeah, Uber CEOs, like, all right, when do I upsell you to Uber Plus or whatever? Right. What this means is the subscription economy in apps goes through the roof. Because all of a sudden, I just need you to sign up for my thing, right? Like, if I'm Uber, I don't actually care if you're in the Uber app for the most part,

as long as you're using Uber because I make money when you use Uber. So actually making it easy for you to use Uber benefits me to some extent, right? Whereas if I run Yelp and I'm an ad-based system, I have exactly zero incentive to be part of this. Because all I'm doing is giving you the information that you want without you having to come look at my ads. So like the end of this is, and I think this is true with a lot of AI, is you look at a lot fewer things, but you pay a lot more subscriptions. Yeah. And that, I don't know how I feel about that. Yeah.

I can say I hate that. I don't want to spend more money. Yeah, but they did say they will have something called on-screen awareness, which is they will know the state of your phone as you're using it. They will help you. Again, this is Google. Google now, maybe. A million years ago. We have an entire feature about Google now from like 10 years ago.

Like, these ideas have been floating around for a while. I think it's been very hard for Apple to make them see BDU in this context because we just came, we're in developer conferences and this is the end of it. And the same ideas have been done it over and over again. The one that struck me is particularly interesting is typed to Siri because they kept saying it's, you know, chatbots are not this. We actually keep people safe by not letting them just do chatbot stuff. That's how you break this stuff and find its weaknesses and make it do evil stuff. Also, you can now type to Siri. Yeah.

And it's like, first of all, they should have had type to Siri from the very beginning of Siri. I think Paul Miller on this show is like it is a crime that you can't just like type Syria command that you have to talk to it. Yeah. It's like an accessibility nightmare. Yeah. But this is... Well, it does exist, but you have to pick, which is ridiculous. Yeah.

I will just remind everybody in Siri launched, like, the year the Verge launched. Like, that's how old this thing is. Like, who do you think has done better? We are told that it's like a billion and a half request to Syria a day. Yeah. Just slightly behind the verge. Yeah. People command us to do set timers all day long.

The Verge cast hotline is just, like, five minutes. But they should have had it for more long. And now they do, so you can type to Siri. Whether that feels like a chat. Applots of people or just commands. Who knows? One of the coolest features, by the way, they added to AirPods for Siri is now when it asks you if you want to do something, you can just nod yes or shake no.

I'm very excited about that. Very cool. So they're just kind of making Siri more natural and more like available to you and then increasing its set of capabilities. None of that is coming in the beta of iOS that are going to be out. Nope. That is just going to slowly increase over the course of now until the end of iOS 18. And then we'll see what makes it, what gets pushed to iOS 19, whatever.

But they're basically saying, like, we're starting now. We're going. Series is going to become this thing. That's what we want it to be. And they're severely limiting what phones it will work on. Right. Right. And it's unclear whether that's because they want everybody to buy a new phone.

They probably want everybody to buy a new phone. I don't think that's clear. I think that's fairly clear. I think I need to spend more time thinking about the differences between the M1 and sort of like whatever, the A series of the iPhone, the iPhone 15 Pro. Like, there's some stuff there that's different. But yeah, they probably just want to buy any phone. And you're not going to get some, like, M1 MacBook error on it to be like, I'm doing this for CER.

If this cloud computing thing works as well as Apple says, you should actually be able to fail it pretty gracefully down and just do more and more in the cloud as you get to older and older phones. Well, you want, yeah, you want the older phones or the older cell radios pushing more and more. Hell yeah, dude. Let's go. Maybe the cell radios is it? Like maybe the cell radio is why.

Yeah, who does? Or they just want to sell a bunch of phones. I don't know if you look to their last quarterly earnings. You're desperate for an upgrade cycle. A mix. But I do think this is an unusually developer dependent feature, not only to plug into the intents, but like one of the things Apple did a lot of today, and we should get into it, like we have a lot of OSs to get.

But they opened up a lot of new APIs and things people can tap into and gave them access to new stuff that's going on in the system. And like, they're both giving users more stuff they can noodle around with, but also developers feel like they're getting way more access to like the underlying stuff happening on the device than they have in the past. And I feel like if you're Apple and you want to like make things work across the device, you have to do that. But it also feels like this is Apple being like, okay, we are sort of throwing open the iPhone in a new way. Please come two cool things with it. Please, we need it so bad. Please come.

Which is like wild for them to be doing right now when probably their relationship with developers has never been more fraught. Yeah. I spend a lot of time trying to decide how big a deal I think that is. Because on the one hand, where the hell are you going to go? Yeah. Like what other moves do you have at this point? And for Apple, this is another chance to shore that up because if this increases Apple's market share, it starts to fight against some of these other AI systems. Everybody who's like, oh, open AI is going to break the paradigm of the smartphone.

Apple can just sit here and be like, Gotcha. We win. Come make apps for us again. Yeah. But at the same time, it is true. Right. Right. But at the same time, it is true that there are a lot of developers who do not believe Apple has their best interests at heart right now. Especially if the point of all this stuff is to obviate the app, right? Right.

I think fundamentally it's very interesting to look at Apple under a little bit of competitive pressure. Like, where are you going to go is like, that's the monopoly. Where are you going to go? They have all the customers. No one right now is like running off to buy an AI powered surface book. Federi again, today said, technically, we've been shipping AI PCs since 2020. All right. And some people want to call that a category now.

And it's like they are feeling pressure. It's good. Yeah. Like it's good for all of technology when these companies are ferociously competitive. And this stuff has made them ferociously competitive. They all have the same idea. It's all the same stuff. We make this email 10% nicer.

Yeah. Email summarization wars, baby. Let's go. There's just a part of it, but there's a part of this where at the end of it, it's just like, I'm sending David a robot email. It's his robot summarizing it. He's sending me some weird mutant gen motion in response. It's like, what have we accomplished here? I love how it's just abstracting all communication. Like, that's all AI does now.

It just abstracts everything we say. Yeah, you'll send the first email and then it'll just be AI forever. Yeah. And then something will end up in your calendar. Yeah. And that'll be great. Some stuff that they did not announce, which I was curious if they would, they announced AI image removal in the background of photos, but not anything beyond that. So basically, Smart Eraser, which, like, Google Photos has had forever and Lightroom now has.

That's really interesting. They're going to add this to more of their products. But you could go even farther and be like, you can just take people out of these photos. And, like, they didn't demo that, right? Yeah. So Apple is clearly operating within some set of constraints. They did a lot of safety checking around their generative AI tool, which again produces just like horrific cartoons. I'm so excited.

It's not nearly as photorealistic as the other stuff that we see on the market. Like, I met as AI tool, just like, just a weird spaghetti Jesus day and night, right? Yeah. Apple can't make anything of that quality because it's running everything locally. Well, it's using all of like your images to train on it, right? No. It's not. No, no, no, no, there's not training.

How's it training? It just has a model. It's pre-training. trained model that's running in your phone. Okay, so pre-trained garbage model. Yeah, and they were very clear. Actually, David brought this up. Apple, just like everybody else, like, yeah, we trained in the

public web for his text models. Yep, just like, yeah, like you do. And they're like, publishers could have opted out. And it's like, what? Publishers, like, to make sure Applebot isn't scraping us. Maybe they were, and everyone free time about chat. You didn't want to.

I didn't even know if we block it. Disclosure, we have a robot's file. Someone else is in charge of it. But, like, they said they trained their image model on a bunch of Apple-owned images in order to maintain safety. They selected the data they were training with. They licensed a bunch of books and news archives and stuff. So all that stuff is sitting on the phone, which is why it's as limited as it is. It's not trained in your data.

I was really... Training a model on even just the amount of photos and, like, a normal phone, like your phone would explode. Yeah. Yeah. Also, just horrible. I don't want to see anything it does there. That's why you need to go from 35 to 38 to opt-offs. Good comments on YouTube last week.

But like that last piece where like how will we keep it safe? How will we keep it from doing the weird stuff the other models have done? The weirdest part about this is on your own phone, code running locally. On the phone you purchased with the operating system you're on, their stuff Apple will not let you do. in a way that right now Apple doesn't sit between you and what you type into pages. It doesn't sit between you and what you can record with the camera. It doesn't sit between you and what you can edit an iMovie,

but you open image playground and you're like, make me some horrific stuff. And Apple's just going to say no. Because Apple doesn't want to run into what every single other company runs into, where it's like, oh no, you did a racism. So the difference is all that stuff is happening on a website, controlled by a company, on someone else's server. there's a lot of precedent for once you're using cloud service

other people get to say what you do with it there's not a lot of precedent for you are running code locally in your computer if you can do it in airplane mode should there be any rules right and the one that I think of all the time I've asked a bunch of people about this the one that comes to mind right now is Adobe Photoshop will not let you

print out a dollar bill you stand a dollar into Photoshop and try to print it and like no it's a dollar we're not going to let you do counterfeiting the government has asked us very politely to not enable counterfeiting and just like won't do it. Okay.

Like we've done, I think everyone is sort of like accepted over time. Yeah, you know, fine, like don't do counterfeiting in Photoshop. Yeah,

but that's very different than like what, just reading the paper and what kind of Apple tested on and what they're trying to get rid of. It's like, it's just all the shit posting. It's all the stuff like,

yeah, sometimes you do want to send something absolutely horrible to you. Yeah, like I bet Photoshop will let you print out like a bunch of butts. Yeah. Yeah, the Photoshop will absolutely.

In fact, encourage. And Apple will not let you. I don't know Firefly is ready for like, make a bunch of butts. But Firefly runs in the cloud, right? So we've accepted this thing where it's like, you're using someone else's computer, particularly for free. And then I'm just to say, well, it's good or bad.

And we have some expectations of what they will allow. You're using your own computer. There are no, we do not usually allow these things to have rules. You can make all the butts you want. Right. If you pick an open source. I mean, that is the use case. Finally, finally a way to sell Chromebooks.

AI PCs from Microsoft. All the butts you want. But yeah, if you take an open source model and run it on some PC today, nothing's stopping you. And there's not really a way to stop you unless, I know, the chip makers prevented. Like, that's just not going to happen, right? Like, I've asked Lisa Sue this question. I've asked Qualcomm this question.

They're like, yeah, if the government tells us not to a lot of stuff, we want to do it. Anyhow, the point of this is, I think people are going to get this. they're going to assume it's their computer, and the thing that it will not be is 100% their computer anymore. No, and I kind of find that a little gross. I mean, I think if it was just a straight-up app, if it wasn't, like, integrated into a whole bunch of other apps, I wouldn't feel as gross about it. It was just like, oh, yeah, that's the Apple Image Generator app. It won't let you make butts.

I'd be like, okay, that's fair. But, like, okay, if you want to make butts in any of these other tools, I should be allowed to. Well, I think we have our first test. I'm so excited. Again, the vibe of WDC is like, we know people are going to do weird stuff with their thing. We'll take it down when we need to. They very much know that the systems will hallucinate and there's going to be some weird outcomes. They're just like ready for it.

Yeah. But it's just like, and then I think we should take a break and actually talk about all the OSS is after this. But like the one piece of this that like philosophically I'm thinking about is like, this is the first time an operating system is going to be straight up like. No. No. We're just not going to let you do it. And Apple's approach to it is like, we're the ones generating it, so we're going to set the rules. That's just, that feels weird to me.

It's weird. Yeah, I don't like that. All the other ones are on the cloud. So you can't, like, roll up to Google and be like, here's what I want to do with your data center today. I think I just want to say free the butts. Like, we got to free them. We've got to take a break. So we'll take a break.

We'll be fine. Everybody think about whatever you need to think about. But free the butts. Free the butts. We'll be right back. Support for this show comes from Shopify. Starting something new isn't just hard. It can be really scary, too.

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All right, we're back with the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of leaky user data. There we go. I'm just going to keep saying it. It's going to get Allison Johnson's here. Welcome, Allison. All right. Outside of the AI stuff, there was a ton of other news at WWC. Apple updated almost every single one of its operating systems.

I say almost because TVOS received virtually nowadays. It got some. It got the same updates Amazon has had for years. But only in the Apple TV Plus app for Apple TV originals. Perfect. Yeah. It's the severance box now. That's just what that's for.

It's fine. It's the most expensive streamer on them. Dave, you want to run us through all these? Yeah, let's see. So there are eight platforms I have here, and I'm defining platforms slightly more loosely than Apple did. And I have ordered them in what I would call rough order of my own particular interest. So I feel like the first one we should start with is iOS 18. Yeah.

We should start with the personalization, right? This is like the thing I was most excited about coming into this. And Allison, I'm particularly curious how you feel as someone who, who uses all the phones and is someone who is like, I feel like every single time I look over your shoulder, you're like moving things around on your home screen just in life. Just add some chaos. What did you make of all this?

Yeah, it's, I feel like it's the next step, you know, with the lock screen customization we've gotten and home lock screen widgets, which I love and I don't know if anybody else uses. But yeah, just a few more options. I'm pretty interested in the control. Center updates, they've like kind of rejiggered it. And now it's like way more customizable. You can like resize the tiles and you can move things around.

And then that kind of feeds into the lock screen where you can change the shortcuts. The like, what is it, flashlight and camera? Yeah, flashlight, bottom left, camera bottom right. Yeah. Which for some reason I have trouble hitting those things. But you can change them and you can make them pretty much anything that's in the control center options, I think. Yeah. The HALID folks are very excited

because you can just put HALID in a video on a keynote right on watch screen. Yeah. Which is wild. Like, do I want to blame this on EU regulatory pressure? I would like to blame it. But it's rules, I think. It's great. This is like what everybody wants is to be able to reprogram a bunch of these buttons to different kinds of apps.

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's something that Andrew's been doing what? Since it started? A long time. I guess it's. It is so funny. watching Craig Federigi stand on stage and be like, look, I have an app icon. I can put it anywhere I want. And it's like, oh my God, Craig. By the way, I just want to put it out. You can't put it. No, you can't. Thank you.

It's still a grid. I compared it to stage manager in the live blog and a bunch of people gave me shit for it. And I'm right. It's stage manager. It's not like a free form. You can't get to like desktop levels of crazy. Yeah. It's a grid. Yeah. And you can put some stuff on one side or the bottom. Honestly, moving out of the grid and making you be, like, allowing you to put wherever you want would be good security for them. Because if you get somebody's phone, you're like, I don't fucking know where any of these apps are. It's just a pile. It's just a pile. Oh, God. They also announced what I think should just be known as the grinder feature.

The Ashley Madison, if you will, where you can have a folder full of hidden apps that are locked. I was like, oh, what are those hidden apps? Oh, well, if you're married, I know what those hidden apps are. So sensitive information I'm going to be suspicious of all of y'all's phones That's where I put the notes for things I'm going to buy my wife Because I just want her to know ahead of time You're real sweet

You're a whole app just for that No but so I'm very excited about the The apps on the home screen thing Like that rules just the thing where you can put a row of them on the side And nowhere else Wonderful Yeah like that's where icons should go Like if you've ever tried to use your phone in one hand

It's stupid that there are icons everywhere Anyway, the thing that I think is bad is the color theming that Apple is trying to do. I've seen a bunch of screenshots of this. So in theory, you can, like, apps will be able to deem their own apps or their own icons. So you'll be able to do lots of different things with it. But you can also, it seems like just brute force a color across the whole home screen. Every single screenshot I've seen of it from dev so far looks like trash. That's because they haven't done it right.

It's got to be that really horrible green. And you've got to have, like, the Matrix background on your phone. And then it's going to be sick. I don't believe that. I don't know if anyone has ever seen Kranz's Slack theme. Unusable. Just an unusable. It's a beautiful security measure.

No one's going to be like looking over my shoulder at Slack. Is it going to be like, nope, mm-mm? You know, you have to look at it, right? Like, that's the challenge there. Yeah, but you just harden yourself. This explains a lot of why sometimes I'll slack you and like eight days later. You're like, oh, hey. Yeah, I don't like it.

But no, I thought that was like both the dumbest thing and also my favorite thing. Because like if there's the potential to make it look really pretty, you could theoretically, but every example they had on there was like horrible. Yeah. Like what Google has done with Material You, I think, is great. And they've done a good job of making it match with backgrounds. And that's some of what Apple is trying to do here, it seems like. But I don't know, it's just like a weird brute force thing that I'm not into. Even the sample he did where he's like, it's like the dog and there's a bunch of tennis.

balls. He was like, yeah, I can choose a color from here and immediately chose the tennis ball color. So like, that was like that was in the demo. He made it look like garbage in the demo. Yeah. You just all of you underestimate the power of teens to theme their phones. Like this is for some huge percentage of people, this is the reason they have been jailbreaking their phones. No, no, there's going to be so many purple and pink. Very, very soon with like the comic sans font. Yeah. That's going to be amazing. I'm very excited for the teenager. to ruin their phones.

Yeah. But this is like table steak stuff that Apple has not had forever. And now they're like, okay, you can like customize your home screen even more. And the reason they never had it before was because Steve Jobs and maybe only Steve Jobs had the conviction to say most of you have bad taste and I don't want you to make my phone ugly. And now they're out of those guys. Yeah. Johnny left. He's gone.

Yeah. What's he going to do? Yeah. And with him, all good taste went to. All the rest of the designers left. They got to throw up some other designers. Here's this guy. He made the fabric band on the Vision Pro.

He thinks you have horrible taste. I feel like every year for the past few years, we've been allowed to make our phones a little bit uglier. Yeah. Like we're just given a little bit more. And we should be allowed to make them as ugly as possible. If I wanted to look at Myspace, let me. It's so obviously coming.

I'm so excited. Even the control center stuff is really fascinating. It now has pages. I think Ford CEO Jim Farley was out there posting on threads about how excited he is for the Ford Pass integration with Control Center. The Machi got like a little cameo on the phone. You can super unlock your doors from Control Center now. I think they even unlocked the doors. I think they just turned on the air conditioning in the car.

That was the demo during the keynote, but the integration has you can unlock the doors. It's just what everybody wanted was to not have to use the Ford Pass app. But it's like, even that is just, it's a little bit more, just let anything happen here. Yeah. Like control center, I think is a successful product for Apple. I think so. It does the thing that everybody wants it to do. And now it's just another surface to muddy up.

I did like, well, because Jim and I've talked about this a lot where we talk about the smart home stuff. And smart home controls and the control center were pretty terrible. They weren't great. Yeah. Because they kept on, they moved them around, which is exactly. what you don't want to. Yeah, you really, I want to turn off my light. Oh, cool. You decided I never need to turn off my light. Yeah, because the four that they do, they auto-populate based

on what you've used last. Horrible. If you're like, I want to turn off this light, you got to, you end up all the way in the home app. Yeah. Whereas the light you turned on yesterday is like, here I am, ready to turn me on again. No. I never go in that room. Leave me alone. Yeah, so I think the fact that you can customize the home stuff more, that, that was like, I was like, okay, because that gives me, that's like, I think about how many swipes it takes me to, like, like turn off a light in my house, right? Yeah. And right now it's like, okay, I got to go into the home app.

I got to find the, look for it. If it's not on that front page, I got to go to the thing. And now I'll be like, swipe, swipe to the home section. And soon you'll be able to just be like, Siri, dark. Yeah. I just have to say, there's now like a lot of ways to do everything on your phone. Yes. Because to some extent, your home screen now has widgets.

Your lock screen now has widgets. There's still the weird old like today screen to the left of your home screen. You can put stuff in apps. You can long press on an app. to do stuff. You can now, one cool thing that I saw, you can long press on an app icon to turn it into a widget in place on the home screen, which looks very cool. It's neat. They like breathed through this stuff to get to the AI. And there's actually a lot of like little design details in iOS 18 that look really great. The new settings for flashlight in the flashlight in the flashlight widget are awesome. You can set the width of the beam of the flashlight. That's beautiful. They should have spent an hour on this. That's yeah. I honestly believe like in any other year where Apple didn't feel like it either has. had to or had an AI story to tell, we would have spent like an hour talking about little tiny

design details. And there would have been long videos about, like, I just saw one thing on Twitter that now when you press the volume button, the bezel indents slightly on the screen so you can see the button being pressed. Just this like tiny little affordance that it looks like it's being pressed from the side. Oh, that's beautiful. Love it. No, no, no.

I know what they're doing with that. You know what they're doing with that. We all know what they're doing with that. They're getting ready to take the buttons away. No. That was my next thought. Oh, that's interesting. I hate both of you for ushering that into existence.

Oh, no. I mean, the second I saw them be like, the screen will dink. I'm like, oh, I know what you're doing. Don't make my screen dink. But we have buried the lead long enough. We got RCS. It's RCS time. If you.

Eli screamed. If you listen. I did it well. I wish I had thought about it sooner. So at I.O. when they mention RCS. the crowd goes wild. Dieter rips the shirt.

At the Apple event, when their RCS shows up and he says it for one second, I don't know, RCS thing. Dead silence except for me. And I believe Allison also cheered. Yeah, when I realized you were. I was like, oh, I can't do a cheer. I should have just screamed, Dieter! Yeah.

Just like, that would have gotten the laugh, I think. Other than that, there was no sounds. No other sounds were made. I bet you could hear you somewhere in the live stream. If you, if you do send it to us, Virchcasts. Verge.com. Send us, Neely screaming about RCS. There's a very famous bootleg of Jeff Tweedy from Woco playing in Madison, and it forced him to play the son Gun by Uncle Tuplow. And like, it goes out there. And it's just me going,

gun! And he's like, really? It's not that you can find it. It's not illegal recording. But the RCS, so we talked last week and we were debating, like, how big a deal are they going to make out of RCS? And I think where we landed, if I'm not mistaken, was it'll be in the bento box at the end that shows all the features, but they won't name it. And I would say we almost got that. He did say the letters RCS out loud on stage. As the binned box appeared. Yeah, yeah, right. It was like a brief. I was kind of like, oh, there's RCS. And then he said, and now we have RCS. And then just breezed past it. Dead silence. They did not like this. They spent more time on the satellite messaging. You're in the woods. You can now thumbs up

emoji, you know, your friend. And then we have RCS. Yeah. And the fact that you can now do text formatting. You can do like a breakthrough in your message. now, which is definitely not going to work over RCS. I can tell you that with great. Yeah, that's a bunch of features that are IMessage only. They could be like, now we have RCS. By the way, SMS works with a saddle. It's not RCS.

I did see that. SMS and Svessing was working on satellites, but not RCS. I did think it was incredible that in 2024, we went to a keynote by the third richest company in the world, state-of-the-art computing company, and they're like, you can underline this text. And you can also bold it and italicize it. And people were like,

well, there was a moment in the theory one where he was like, now you can find documents. And you're like, oh my God, documents. In the iPad where it was like, we've made file browsing easier. It's like, dude, this problem is a super solved. Like, you just refuse to solve it. Yeah. A lot of those moments where you just recontextualize old solutions in the new places.

Like, you can italicize text and messages. Yeah. I understand why it was just like, really? It's the eye button. It's been in every word processor I've ever used. A little slanty eye. You can just push it. You can do it on Twitter.

Or you could. Yeah, but you had to like, it was like weird. Do you like think about it? Yeah. Well, now I can do it in messages. It's very exciting. A message also got any emoji is now a tap back in messages. That actually think is very exciting.

People are super stoked about that. You can make your words jitter and shake and explode. Right. Yeah. Do you guys use that stuff? Like, do you, I find I use the tapbacks all. the time and that's about the only kind of wacky i message feature i use consistently i'm very except the birthday balloons i love the birthday balloons every time i forget about them and i see them

they're very good oh that was nice i always forget about them until i'm like oh congratulations oh i get fire yeah yeah right i'm very excited about the ability to use any emoji as a tap pack yeah i think that's gonna effectively it just you now you just have emoji responses which every other platform supports whereas being like ha ha this is just like this is too Yeah, yeah, right. It's like I use the thumbs up and the the bang bang for way too many things. I mean, I use the ha-ha when like, I'm not truly engaged in a conversation. But I'm like, oh, but that was funny. Point. It's the you tried of emoji reactions.

I don't have any more energy. It makes you a dick whether or not you want to be one. Like it's not. So I'm very excited to expand the range. Blood tears is my favorite. Oh, you're not going to be able to get custom emojis. I think blood tears might be a custom emoji just in our slack instance. If you want to know what it's like

working in a verge, often I reply with a picture of a smiley face crying blood. It's true. It's super useful. It expresses so much about what we do here. More than ha-ha.

Just way more than ha-ha. Okay, starting today, ha-ha means blood tears. Tell everybody. Tell everybody. Tell your parents. We're just going to make this a thing now. You see these words?

It means I'm crying blood. I mean, sometimes the jokes, yeah, that's, that isn't feeling. Yeah. All right, let's keep moving. We got more platforms to do here. You don't want to talk about game mode? Yeah, what's the game mode? There, you just did.

Welcome to game mode. You can now play five-year-old video games poorly on your computer, and there's a new Assassin's Creed game. Whatever. The new Assassin's Creed's coming to the iPad. We're going to talk about Apple and Amson games in 2017. We'll get to the Mac. Sorry.

Game mode prioritizes why those performance. performance of controllers on your iPhone, okay? There, done, great. Congratulations to all of your wireless controllers. Let's move on. The next platform, and this is not technically a platform by Apple's definition, but I think we should talk about it, is Photos, because Photos is like a hugely used app,

and they announced a bunch of stuff, including a giant redesign, that I would argue is not a particularly giant redesign. It's just that they put a bunch of new albums in your Photos app that I am suspicious of their usefulness, but now they exist. Yeah, it's very like memories forward. Like, it seems like the actual photos you're going to look for are just right up there with like, remember this time and here was this thing that happened. Look at all your dead pets.

Yeah. Really, really enjoy them. I just remember, like, there was years ago at an iPad event, I think it was the iPad event they did in New York. They put up this marketing image that was a guy sitting like in a, in a, in, the crook of one of the supports on the Brooklyn Bridge doodling on his iPad. Sure. And it's like, sure, this is like a normal thing a person does on their device.

And every time Apple shows new photos features, I think of that guy sitting on the Brooklyn Bridge because it's like this thing where there is a whole album of just all your awesome pictures from yesterday. It's like, no, I don't have any awesome pictures from yesterday. Like, I have a bunch of accidental screenshots. I have receipts from the plane. And I have a picture of my toddler that is. the same picture that I take of my toddler that's blurry and weird every single day.

Like, I don't need this, Apple. And all of these things are made for, like, extremely interesting, worldly, beautiful people who take thousands of photos of themselves every day. And I think none of those people exist in the actual world. It makes me crazy. They exist on Instagram. All my friends on Instagram. But they try. Most people are just using their phones to take photos. But I do think the idea that the app is now memory forward is fascinating Because it does imply you're taking more photos than videos than ever and it's hard to find them and the device should like Sort them for you which I buy in theory like it's good logic Yeah, I mean I don't use Google photos as my camera roll do you? I mean like on the I use the photos app

Right and I think the sort of conflation of the photos app with the camera roll is like fighting and Sapples goals here which is to compete with Google photos and other apps like Google Photos And so it's just like at some point I just need to see all the photos I took in a list Google Photos right now actually is most infuriating feature is it insists on stacking your photos for you Oh, I hate that. And it's like you took five of these frames and it's like, yeah, I know. I would like to see all five of them. I would like to see them.

I don't want you to pick one. And I think it gets weird when you think of the Photos app is actually your camera role and not this like memory playground. Yeah. Well, I wonder also how much of this is the fact that we all review devices. What do you mean? Like, do most people take screenshots? Yes. Okay.

All the time. On purpose? All the time. I take a lot of accidental screenshots. Yeah. That's real. Yeah. But I also take a lot of on-parned screenshots.

I know people who have 10,000 screenshots in their front of. Just like things, conversations, disappearing messages, snapschats, like all the stuff, like anything that happens in your phone, the way, the easiest, fastest way to capture a screenshot. Yeah. So you can actually do some segmenting and making that stuff searchable and filterable from rest. Like, there's a lot of. of good intent in this app. And I think the way it looks is like ever,

it's even more complicated than it's ever been before. But I also think it is prettier than it's ever been. Like if you think of where we started with eye photos to now, gorgeous app compared to iPhones, right? Sure. Yeah. I care about that. No, I agree.

It has gotten a lot better. And I think as a like management system, it makes sense that this is kind of what they're trying to do. It just seems like this idea of we are going to constantly repackage your photos and shove them at you. Feels like the wrong answer to me. Yeah. But I do think some of the stuff they're doing like they, I think said the exact same you can find your driver's license or your license plate in your photos. Like the identical demo to Google, which is just like this is everybody's.

It's a driver's license. Okay. Google's was your license plate. Right. So you're, yeah, it was what is my license plate? Totally different. Totally new features. Two phones in order to get all your information.

Right. And then I'll know everything about my vehicle. Well, the demo, they are slightly different. They were ever so slightly different. Google was you just asked it. You just like ask Google Photos what my license plate number was. Right. Told you the answer.

This one was you were in a web form and said, enter your driver's license number. And like the Apple intelligence would go and get it and like enter it for you. That's cool. Slightly different demos. Sure. Same exact result. Correct.

You filled out a meaningless number of form. Welcome to the AI future. Just a bunch of weird UI affordances on top. You are going to throw robots at the DMV until the DMV submit. My tax is paid for the shit. Yeah, it was perfect. So that's photos. iPad, which I think was a weird one in that it was both incredibly disappointing

and also the single coolest demo of the day by a pretty wide margin. I ended the iPad session of a lot by saying, I'm sorry. That was overwhelmingly what I felt. at the end of that. Why did you think that was cool? The math? The math thing was awesome. Just the calculator.

Just the single, just in terms of like, holy God, this is cool technology. Just the thing where he's writing down an equation in notes and he writes the equal sign and it just does it in his handwriting, that rips. Another one that I'm like, does this help anyone with anything in reality that exists? I don't know. Where they did the table tennis algebra and then he was like make a graph of velocities. Yeah. Distance over velocity. He's just doing stuff on Chromebooks now.

Like, it's fine. But it was awesome technology. And yet, I think, and I'm curious if this is your... So just the calculator app? Listen, it was awesome. Look, they spent 14 years to make the best damn. People walked into this thinking iPads were going to come out of WWC running macOS. And you're like, the calculator app did...

A thing that is important to say is that the biggest cheer by a wide margin at this year's WWDC was for the calculator app for iPad. Do with that what you will, but it was not close. People saw algebra being done by a computer, and they're like, finally. Yeah, but I found this one so fascinating because it was, like, we got the new iPad Pro and the new iPads, what, like a month ago, two months ago, times of whatever, everybody was like, okay, this is a device waiting for amazing software. And like, WWDC is coming. This is going to be the one.

And we just super duper didn't get it. Yeah. Like, just not even a little bit at all. And I don't know if you guys felt this way being in there, but the energy in the room was the lowest, as he was describing, like, share play improvements on the iPad. Right. When he got to, we've added some UI improvements the iPad,

and everyone thought it would be like a windowing system. He was like floating tabbar, and then he said the word morph five times him. Just seamlessly morphs into the sidebar. I don't know if you've seen anything more famously the robot on Terminator 2 morphs the video for Michael Jackson's black and white some of the first morphing ever done he turns into a tiger nothing about this hit on the level of Michael Jackson turning into a tiger in the video for black and white this was like absolute zero zero response to this

morphing it was the mighty morph and power Rangers I think emotional reactions from everybody in that room, nothing on this hit the level of the White Ranger coming back. You know what I'm saying? An impossible bar. It's nobody else. I'm just surprised you know that much about it. I don't have morphine. I grew in a time of morphing. These are core childhood memories. Morphing was very popular in the 90s. Like a lot of late 90s, early 2000s culture really revolved around morphing. And I'm just saying the guy, he said, we watched the tab bar seamlessly morph into the sidebar. I was like,

yeah, it is baby morphing. We should move on, but I just want to say, if you ever write like a Sufian-Steven-style album, I grew up in a time of morphing, is the title of your single. It's just, it was oddly prevalent.

Allison's with me. She knows. There was, yeah. There's a lot of morphing. There was morphing. They were, they were mighty.

And they were, only one verb in there. Yeah. All right, let's move on. That's enough for the iPad. Still disappointing now with calculator. I put watch OS next, but it's really a tie between... Wait, can we say two things about they had?

Sure. There are two things. One, they announced the most important feature of all for anyone who has a parent with an iPad. You can now take over their screen. Oh, I missed that. So when you're face timing with them, you can share play and they're like, what am I doing? You can draw on their screen to call their attention to something you want them to do, or you can just do it. That's cool.

Killer feature. Yeah, that's a good feature. Absolutely killer feature. And then the weird dynamic handwriting font thing they're doing, SmartScript, where you draw on it and it smooth out your handwriting, but then also sort of creates handwriting for you. It's unclear whether it was like a system-wide typeface or it just has a model of your handwriting that you can now copy and paste.

You can paste, you can copy text from somewhere else, paste it into a document in your handwriting. That's pretty awesome. Couldn't you do that on like a surface device five years ago? Yeah But now it's on the iPad Look they didn't add windows They added a morphing tab Taskbar

And you get smart They were like we're going to set the bar real low It's very low And then we're going to go slight People thought they were going to run MacOS On their iPads coming out of this event They got smart script Were not correct

And David got a calculator You know what's ironic For all the algebra you do at work This is actually This is a good segue into the next one Let's do MacOS next Because what we actually got is much closer To the exact opposite

of getting MacOS on your iPad. We got iPhones on your Mac. Yes. MacOS, Sequoia. How do you feel about Takoya? It's like a name? It's fine.

It's a name. I've live logged for like 10 years, 15 years now. And when Craig does the bit about the name, I literally just like take a break. Yeah. Crack my knuckles. I'm like, you're going to, it's a name. It's going to be a mountain.

Yeah. They did or didn't get high. It's fine. Yeah. But yeah, the big things, we should talk about iPhone mirroring. because this is one of those things that I think... This is the big thing. Apple probably didn't expect to be as exciting to people as it was,

but is very exciting. And I think it's going to be a huge deal. Yeah. I mean, they're missing a key interface element. You mean a digital crown? It took the world best one. It's right up there. It's a click wheel, digital crown.

It's the track panel. Three most important devices. No, they don't have a touch screen. It's like bananas. I can mirror a phone onto your Mac without a touchscreen. But I think the basic idea that people want to use their phone, there's a bunch of apps in your phone that did not sign up for the Mac app store when the Mac went to Apple Silicon, which they really thought would happen.

It did not happen. How are you going to get the Instagram app on your Mac? Was it a Catalyst that was supposed to bring all that stuff across? Catalyst was iPad apps being remapped into Mac apps. But now you can just run iOS apps on Apple Silicon Mac. a Mac. Straight up, no porting. The Bluetooth lights in the studio at my house have a horrible iPhone app, and it's the only,

it's the only app that has ever, I've been like, I wonder if that's here. And it's there, because they don't care. Instagram is like, no, we're not letting you do this. TikTok is like, we're not letting you do this. We're not making you a Mac app. You just mirror your iPhone. And it's just the most brute force, like, we're just horsepowering this screen onto that screen.

Solved the problem. The app's still running on the phone. It's very cool. I think it will work. I think people are going to use it all the time. The coolest part, I don't know if you guys saw this, the notifications get remapped. So your iPhone notifications show up on your Mac and you click it. As Mac notifications? As Mac notifications. And you click them and it'll pop open the iPhone mirroring and drop you into the iPhone.

I mean, I'm nervous about that. I already don't like how many notifications I get on my iPhone. I'm like, are they going to be on my computer now too? Yeah, so like AP News loves to push a breaking notification for every phone. everything. Is that just going to pop up on my Mac? Well, supposedly now, thanks to the magic of AI, all of your notifications are going to be sorted by priority, which couldn't possibly go wrong or be gamed by any systems because Apple has historically done such a good job of managing those to Rale back. Like, that's all you got to do. No, they sure locked the hell out of grots.

I know. They sure locked it, but like they didn't make anything better. No, that's not what you do when you use your dominant monopoly to kill your competition. It's not the choice. you're making. But I am excited about like the iPhone thing just because I'll be able to never have to get off my couch again when I need to like log into something that needs two-factor authentication. That's why you get an Apple Watch. Oh, that's a good one. You all think the Apple Watch is a health and fitness device. I think of this is a two-factor dongle. Does it have like, shames me from time? Does it have the authenticators on it? Oh yeah. I use I use Octa Verify and Othi on it. Well, I'm going to. Thanks to you actually because

you have been proselytizing this for years. any of those services, we use other ones. This was not a security hole. I don't have any of those on my watch. We use the new Apple passwords out. I'm downloading them right now. This is a two-factor dongle that will occasionally shame you for not standing up, and it's fine. It works. But that thing where they added more iPhone to the Mac, deeply funny.

Oh, yeah. They also, we talked a lot about Siri in the AI section. They changed the way Siri looks and works on the Mac to make it more powerful, to give more of these text inputs. But like it's, they didn't change much. The big other feature that got a lot of cheers, the Mac section, was automatic window tiling, which Windows has had for 100 years. I have used it so much on Windows and I have an app on my computer that I, like, when they announced it, I was like, but I thought we already had that. Yeah, it's, it's one of those features that it is truly bonkers. It didn't have already. And there are a million apps out there that are

free and great for window tiling and we'll do it better than Sequoia, I'm sure. So go use those. Magnet. I use one called rectangle. It's very good. That's a good name for an ad. It is. It's very good.

It's very good. And it's free and it's wonderful and everybody should use it. But this, it's, yeah, there's so many things in here that are just like Apple sort of slowly checking off boxes of like features. It's insane that have not been here for a decade. Yeah. And that's fine. I'll take it. A lot of people have asked me how to feel, I guess.

That's Safari. Yeah. And the fact that it has AI summaries built into it now, which is. I know you two love ARC, but a lot of people have feelings about ARC doing that in different ways. Feelings not perplexity doing that in different ways. This one feels much more innocuous because you're browsing the web and it is loading the web pages. I mean, I have it turned off in ARC. I always forget that it's there.

You just like ARC. Yeah, I just love ART. But that distinction you made, I think, is actually really important and is the whole thing, right? Like, Apple's way of doing this is you go to a web page and then AI can do things to that web page. Yeah. And like a bunch of it is really clever, right? It's like there, if you're looking for important information on a web page, it will help you surface it. Like, if you ever go to like a restaurant website and you look for the phone number, impossible.

And this is like, it will just find you the phone number. Like that's good. But you're already on the website, right? And so now all you're doing is you're solving for awful web design, which I'm fully in favor of. I should destroy bad web design. But it flips the equation of the thing. Like it's not going to the web page and then returning information on my behalf. I am going to the web page and then asking it for information.

To be clear, we have not used this to any great extent. No. We've seen some demos. People have the private betas and I'm publishing about it. So people are talking about it. But I think there's going to be a lot of back and forth between, hey, this web browser is now doing a lot of summary. You have a big partner with Open AI, which not everyone is so happy with. Disclosure, our company has a content deal with Open AI.

Cool. I don't know if we have one with anyone else. But I think a lot of the Safari work, at one point, the person is presenting Safari was like, if you haven't used it, you should try it. It got pretty good. Yeah. It's like, oh boy, you need to get this back. You got to get this back on tracks.

They're adding some features to it because as David has been covering an installer, like, browser wars are back. There's like a bunch of very interesting browsers because of AI features. And so I think Apple needs to capture some of that. Yeah. And the, like, the reader mode updates that it got was cool. Reader's another one that it's like, nobody's mad at reader mode, even though it strips everything out because you have to load the web page. That's just the whole thing.

And there's now the, what's it called? They call it the viewer mode where it'll just pop up a video that's on the page if you want to watch the video and give you like native picture and picture and viewing control. That's very good. Love it. It's making bad websites better. Unbelievable. A huge fan. Make me go to the website.

Right. The problem with all the other browsers is. like you'll stop browsing the web. Right. And then there's no more incentive to make web. And I think Apple's trying to walk the line here. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm, I'm, again, yeah, there's a lot of questions, but I'm kind of in favor. Does anyone sitting here use Safari with any regularity? I do. Do you? Like on purpose? Yeah. Until I'm switched to arc, I would do like edge is my work browser. And Safari was my personal browser. I tried to keep the work separate. So what I've learned about you in this podcast so far?

You are a devoted Mac user who loves Outlook and Edge. Make better mail and web browser. Use other devices. Yeah. Have you heard about these AI PCs? You love being watched by big corporations. You were also on this podcast not long ago being like, oh, what Apple wants to do is build a surface.

You could just have one. I know, but I don't want it. I want Apple to do what I want it to do. You just want to hug up your iPhone. Yeah. People in America are so confused about competition. They're like, I'll just yell at Apple until it makes me the product I want. I won't just buy the product that exists.

Exactly. Party is the thing I want. That's why I'm in the job I'm in, so I can yell everywhere. Can we spend two seconds talking about gaming and then talk about passwords? Literally two seconds. Okay. Apple announced a bunch of games. That's it.

Sorry. I just want to announce they, they're like, you can now play Death Stranding on the Mac that came out in 2019. The Assassin's Creed game One that is coming out, that's true, but another one came out in 2019. And then the big finale was Control, now with ray tracing. Control was the game of the year

in like 2017. Yeah, Control is a game that everybody just uses to show off ray tracing because it has really good ray tracing. That's kind of why it exists in most people's computers now. Control is at the point where you open the PlayStation store on the right day. It's like, do you just want control?

Yeah, do you? It's like really good, you know? You should try it out. But the Ubisoft stuff was interesting. It did feel like Apple is trying to kind of force its way back into the gaming conversation. I mean, it's been doing it for the last three or four years. But having the Ubisoft guy on stage, having the new games come out on the iPad, on the Mac, like day and date, that's not nothing. Wait, I got this wrong.

Control is a game of the year contender in 2019. The Assassin's Creed game came out in 2017. I'm sorry. apologies to everyone. Yeah, it's, they're all old. But also, this, they're old games. I was a different person. This was before the pandemic.

He was like, it's pre-COVID. It was old. I used to, I was breathing on people every day. This does continue, Assassin's Creed's perfect streak of being available on every platform invented by anyone ever. And you're like, can I fucking stab someone on this computer? Ubisoft is there. They're like, yes. In a little French accent.

The new one is in. feudal Japan. All right, that's too much game mode talk. Let's look at WatchOS briefly. This is the one I am perhaps least qualified to talk about because I just went in and turned off all of the fitness notifications on my Amwatch because they were making me sad. And I was like, do you want to stand up? And I was like, no, I'm on a call.

Leave me alone, Apple. But there's like if you're a fitness person and Allison, you're wearing a watch and seem like a fitness person, there's a lot of new stuff here. This thing is like a super intense health and fitness device now. It's getting serious. I will say, and we'll give this shout up for our colleague V song, that you can now finally tell Apple you're taking a rest day. Or like, you're sick.

You're not going to go do your little jog or whatever. Yeah. Like, I could feel it. I could feel her, you know, energy. V was typing in our Slack when this got launched and was typing in all caps so fast she was just making thousands of typos. Yeah. Just pure joy. Yeah.

But yeah, so there's, you can now take rest days. You can also change your goals day to day throughout the week, which I think is very clever. There's a new vitals app that'll track new stuff on your body. If I explain it more than that, I will immediately sound as dumb as I am about all of this. You can rate like the effort of a workout. It's basically like this is all just health inputs and outputs, right? That is what this device is now. It felt like they added a bunch of stuff that other folks have been doing like ORA ring has been doing it,

Garmin has been doing it, especially the health stuff. Like, ORA has been all. all over that. And it was like, oh, we, we've got all those sensors. We've, in fact, got better sensors. We could probably do that. And Apple has just been really weird about it before now. And they've been in a pretty healthy lawsuit. The company, but it's probably why. But so, so it's, it's nice to see that. Yeah, you'll be able, the rest days is the big one though. I think, I think that was what the one like, I was seeing on threads even. Everybody was just like, yeah, that was the one. Yeah, that was the one. The people ask

that forever. Yeah. Because it's, yeah, sometimes you feel like garbage. and your watch is like, you haven't moved at all today, you piece of shit. Yeah. And you're like, because I feel like garbage. Thanks,

mom. Like, leave me alone. And it seems to get like meaner and meaner as time goes on. Like, if you get to like day three of not closing all your rings,

your watch is just so disappointed in you. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you get the message. It's like, you didn't close any rings yesterday. Like,

let's just try for one today. I'm like, I'm sorry. What's the bare minimum? Yeah. What if you did anything today? I'm like, I didn't even have my watch on yesterday.

Leave me a one. Stand ring. We're going to go for stand ring. Once an hour. Just stand up. I'm going to put my goal to three hours today. Let's go, Apple. It's good.

All right, let's burn through the last ones. Then we can take break. AirPods. We talked a little bit about the AirPods. You nod. Headshake, nod. Very good. Unbelievably unconvinced that that works.

But if it does, I'm very excited. There are a lot of people out there who are trying to make that stuff work. Turns out you move your head a lot. I don't know if you've noticed. But, like, just being a person in the world, you move your head a lot. And so figuring those gestures out, I hope it's the same way, like, when you talk to your computer, or you use a voice, you have, like, your computer voice. I hope you have to, like, have a computer head nod.

It really has not. So you're just, like, walking down the street doing these really dramatic head nods. That would be ideal. Which is definitely better than talking to yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Not weird to just constantly be walking on the street. In both cases, you'll probably get the car to yourself on the subway.

I was walking on the street in Philadelphia the other day. And a woman read by on her bike, and she just goes, hey, Siri! Really loud. And I was like literally, like a lot of people stopped because that was just a weird thing to happen. And I said out loud to the person I was walking with, I've never seen anyone do that in the wild before. And they're like, that was special. And that we had like, everyone's like, the whole street had a moment because she was like, I'm going to talk to Siri while I'm just biking. It's hard to do in public because I'm like, I'm always like, hey, Siri.

Yeah, no. You got a, Philly, man. With her whole chest. The whole... I love that. Philly. That's where you can just do it. Yeah.

There are some towns in America where you can just address your voice assistant. Yeah. The AirPods pros, they're getting better like phone calls to. Voice isolation. Yeah. Which is a feature that has existed for a long time

and is deeply buried in settings on all of your devices. This is like a thing you can do on phone calls now and it makes you sound so much better. And it has always driven me crazy that Apple doesn't just turn it on by default. But it's a thing that exists on the Mac. It's a thing that exists on the iPhone.

but you have to turn it on for every single call, like in the middle of the call, and that's very stupid. And so the fact that it's just on now, there's also the personalized spatial audio, which, you know, Neelai's favorite feature, so that everyone can sneak up on you during your phone calls.

Yeah, that's what you want. But no, I'm into it. The AirPods. They did it. Yeah, there's still AirPods. No more AirPods maxes. I really thought that we were going to get AirPods today. Either it was going to be a home pod

or new AirPods maxes, and they were going to, like, make a whole series story out of it. Nothing. Whatever in thought was that they were going to add macOS the iPod and the AirPods would be the focus of all the AIF All of you people were disappointed So we got a calculator hat and it was sick TVOS we have covered several times

We'll just move on from there It'll now We're getting a new season of 21-9 projector support to TVOS, okay This is the next hour of the verge cast I'm moving on Speaking of the next hour of the verge cast vision OS I will not name names a friend of ours, a friend of the show,

came up to us, and they're like, so they're just giving up on the Vision Pro. And this person looked bereft. Aw. Bereft. That's sad. And I was like, no, I think they announced four months ago. I don't think they had anything left in the tank.

And they're giving up on it. Well, Wes Davis was going through all of the updates, and he's like, oh, what they didn't say on stage was that they are fixing a ton of bu. and issues he's had with it. Because he's like the one person on staff. He loves it. He loves it.

God bless it. He's always like, you want to FaceTime? I'm like, absolutely not. Put that in the fire. But yeah, so apparently there's doing a bunch of updates to it, but they just didn't talk about any of that. They did not because I think you have to know what is broken about the Vision Pro in order to appreciate the fixes. Yeah. And most people don't know anything about the Vision Pro.

And they're like, we're not spending time on that. Because David is fond of reminding us. It costs $3,500. Seven out of ten, baby. Here we go. I stand by my review now more than ever, actually. Not the score, but the review. No, I think it's right.

And I think we have continued to find that it's better out here than in there. But they did add, they're adding more immersive videos. They're going to release more stuff. They're releasing more countries, which actually got a huge cheer. That expands the market. Canon's making a special lens just for the R9, which Allison, I'm curious if you have a read on this. Oh, my God. I totally, like, blanked that out.

It looked like, wasn't there a moment where some company was making a 3D lens for the camera? Yeah. Like Fujifilm, I think, did the, like, you know, when 3D was going to be the next thing. They're like, here's a camera lens that will shoot 3D photos for you. And it's like, we're doing it again. Yeah. I can't tell if the EOS R9, it was specifically the camera they called out has a sensor or a processing system that can take the split image, right? Because what they're doing is they're making a right and left image and then combining it somewhere.

So I'm wondering if the camera has some setting. But the Canon's making a lens for one camera. It's not just a Canon lens like you would expect. It's for this one camera. So now you can shoot Apple immersive with this one camera. Is it the R9 or the R7? Was it the R7? Duren says it was the R7.

Viren's already bought the lens. No. Oh my gosh. Live fact checking. Maybe I just typed a. wrong in the life log. Yeah. Again, I would say this is indicative of how important this actually is to the world.

But I think this is really wild because there's not enough content for this headset. Right. So they spent a lot of time talking about just like how they're building out the content pipelines for the Canon EOS R7. Thank you, very clear that Apple thinks content is the thing. And they announced like new environments, new ways to look at the spatial photos, like, new tools for showing this stuff, it's very obvious to me that the two things they're seeing people do in this are used it as a monitor, which is why they announced the new ultra-wide monitor,

which looked awesome. I'm confident will not look like that in actual use, but the idea of having one giant, like, wall-sized monitor in front of you kicks ass, and I want it very badly. I am very excited to see if that means macOS will now support ultra-wides, curved ultra-wides, more natively. Right now if you get one of the crazy Samsung's, they're like, like don't work very well. Right. It would be hysterical

if it only works with the Vision Pro. It would be perfectly unbranded. If you could get a giant curve ultra wide in the $35 headset,

but that same resolution could not be displayed in an actual monitor. Just beautiful. Yeah. We'll see. But people did cheer for that. It is the thing

they're using it for. But yeah, I think that just means they're adding more display resolutions to the Mac, which would be good because there's a class of monitors that you really can't

use very well with the Mac right now. Yeah. Well, and with that, that's the last, we're going to hear of the Vision Pro for a pretty long time, I think. But anyway, can I, in my continuing quest to describe the what is a photo apocalypse, they added a feature.

Right now you can shoot spatial audio, right now you can shoot spatial video and photos with your iPhone. I don't think you should do it because actually really reduces the quality of, especially in low light. And the files are monstrous. Yeah. And you can only look at them at head. Yeah. It's just like not worth it right now.

But they are adding a feature where it can. spatialize your regular photos. Which means it is creating a bunch of synthetic data for your eyes to look at out of one photo. So you've got a left eye vision and it's going to make a right eye or you've got a right eye or whatever it's doing. It's just going to create a little bit

of a depth map and it's going to just synthesize some information that super wasn't there in the photo. Is this the greatest what is a photo crime? No, it is not. Is it super weird that we're all just racing a headlong?

into the future of synthetic imagery and being like, that's fun. Yeah, but that stuff they've been doing on like TVs for ages, right? When they do the auto upscaling and stuff, isn't that the same thing? Or they're just adding pixels? Well, no, so auto upscaling is, you know, you take like a 720 image and you just like make it bigger. Yeah. And you get a bunch of AI stuff in there. This is, and like that's still right, you're right, that's happening, but you're adding pixels like in a 2D plane.

Yeah. This is, they're going to add a 3D image. So you're going to get another angle from, like, assume the picture again is your left eye, you're going to get another angle on the same image, and you're going to see like a little bit of the side of someone's head. I cannot wait to look at a little bit of the side of Allison's head. But an AI, Allison's head.

Right. Yeah, you're just going to have like four ears. Yeah. It'll be great. It's just like one of those things you're like, huh, they're just doing that. They're going to totally synthesize another image for you to look at to create a 3D effect.

That image never existed. Nope. It did not happen. You did not capture it. This computer is just going to confidently tell you, this is what your other eye would have seen. You're going to be like, huh,

that's weird. It's a weird thing that's happening. I will say, I know people, Liam is always on me for endlessly going on about what is a photo. I ruthlessly used

the generative racer in my room the other day to take people out of the background of a photo of my daughter. I'm as conflicted as you are. I am but a man. Okay. How are to make you feel?

Huh? Do you look at that photo differently? Awesome. I do look at the photo differently because I know what I did. But I don't know that most people have a feeling of shame when they're done using a lot of your room. Generative shame is the whole thing we're not even made a phone. They should mark it as shame.

We're about to, by the way, have a big story. Just Weatherbred is working on it. Regular photographers are now running into the reality that any use of AI tools appends a watermark, which then Instagram will just like say made with AI and people have real feelings about that label. It's the verges for destroy that exists. But Jess is working on it. Yeah.

All right. Well, that's all the platforms. There's a lot we didn't get to. I suspect we will talk a lot more about this, both like on Friday and for the rest of our lives. But it was a lot. Like, this is a big. It was a big day. And I think it was a funny one because in another world, just that run of platforms would have been a two hour.

That's why. At the end of it, I was like, are they done? Yeah. And as it was, they just blew through it. Like, I think one of things we're going to see over the next few days, because the developer raters are out, we're going to learn about so many things that didn't even come up or get mentioned. They're not in blog posts. They weren't on the bentos. Like, there's a lot of stuff in these platforms. The ventures are getting surprisingly less dense. Yeah, they're very sparing now.

I think Apple should repack those with information. I think just like a plain text screen. Yeah, just a list of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Just full change log. That's it. We should take a break. You don't want to talk about games some more? No. I don't want to play Assassin's Creed on any of my Apple devices. Leave me alone about it. All right. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Anthropic.

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And then second, being progressive is essentially a hopeful enterprise. That you think, I think that the world can be much better, that we don't have to settle for crumbs or settle for the status quo. And is there a difference between what it means to the elected officials and what it means to the people? So money is essentially the root of everything. I don't care if you're gay. I don't care if you have all that. That's like secondary, third.

Like that doesn't, that's not a priority. That's this week on America Actually. Let's begin. Complex and unprecedented, the Spanish authorities are calling it. Passengers who'd been stuck aboard the Hanta or maybe Hanta virus-stricken Dutch cruise ship disembarked in the Canary Islands this weekend, prompting the highest stakes game of where are they now since maybe COVID? Some of the evacuees, American and French, have since tested positive for the virus.

And yet public health officials seem remarkably calm. We do have one individual who was taken to the biocontainment unit early, early this morning. And we assessed that individual. They are doing well. Possibly because this is not the one to freak out over. Today, Explain drops every weekday afternoon. All right, we're back. Welcome back to our show.

We're ending with a lightning round. Unsponsored. Sponsored by the ESR-N-I. By the way, I would like to think that very many people who have sent me photos of the Sony ULT speakers in the wild, one person was like,

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We're going to do something special here to end. We're going to go around. We're going to say what our two favorite features of WWC were. And these are like features we will use. Features we will use. And frustratingly, we picked them before the show.

Yeah. Where we all took stands against one of those opinions. Couldn't change it. Not allowed. It was not allowed to change it as we came back in from break. Cranz, let's begin with you. I'm very worried about your choices. Yeah, mine, you and HR are probably going to be very worried because Jidmoji

and Image Playground are at the top of my list. Oh, Lord. I have no artistic ability and the ability to make a horse with 12 butts just sounds weird. I want to see what happens. It's a really interesting, no artistic ability and terrible person. It's like a really fascinating combination. But also wildly creative. Yeah.

Like if you were like, I have no artistic ability, I'm a bad person, but I couldn't imagine a horse with 12 butts. Like, fine. Go about you to hate. Franzy's like, I got ideas. I want to see. I want to see what happens. So I'm super excited about that. We'll see how long I'm allowed to be excited about it before Apple just shuts me on.

When you shut you down at the server level, we got the Kill Switch and iOS? Fire. As soon as I log in, they're like, nope, that's not for you. Execute. But it's going to be sick. And then my other one I've talked about already is the ugly dark mode apps. Kranz, oh my God. You've seen my Slack now.

You know, I just, I want everything. I want all of my devices when I turn them on for you to go again, why don't you use Windows and Android which from the like the base levels of the operating system are designed to be this ugly. It's too easy. Oh, I see.

You're not a hacker if you're not hacking. By using the system level of the control to the operating system. It feels like hacking when it's on iOS. All right. Cranz, everybody. David What are you?

My two, I changed it because I want to talk about two things You changed yours? Yeah, but who can remember what my last one was now? It's been too long. There were rules. I changed it mid-show,

not during the break, so it was fine. I changed it while you were talking about something or other. Emode. Yeah, probably. Yeah, you were like, oh, Assassin's Creed, and I just started typing. You know, they shot Control in 2017.

My first one. Yeah, so. My first one is weirdly just like a throw-in at the end of WWC, which actually, that was very exciting. It's transcription and AI summarization in the voice memos app. And also the phone app. And also the phone app. Yeah. So exciting, which is like, this is the kind of thing that, like, if you're a reporter is life-changing,

and if you're a real person is just like sort of whatever. But for me, like, I spend a lot of time talking into things and being talked at on those same things. And having a decent recorder is amazing. Like you use a pixel recorder, Alison, I know. Because that is like a magical little piece of software. At all times. And this feels like it might do the same thing. And I'm very excited about that fact.

Yeah. So that's awesome. Also, maybe the thing that AI is the most consistently good at is transcription and summarization. So like, sold. Love it. I'll take it. The other one is all of the organization stuff in mail,

which I am more excited about as time goes on. Because Nia is making. a face at me, which is fair. He's just thinking, Mimstream is. I'm like, this man has to run installer and he has to pretend all software is interesting. So, no. It's that all email

apps for iPhone are bad. Which is just a fact of the world. Solved problem on the Mac. Mimstream is excellent. Everybody should use Mimstream. Love it to death. There are no good email apps for the iPhone. And before you hear this or see this and send me one,

don't. I've tried it. It sucks. They're all bad. But this thing that Apple did, which is basically just launched Gmail. Yeah. They have an updates tab, the whole thing. Yeah. They do the categorization. They're doing some AI summarization.

You can use the tools to rewrite your emails like we were talking about earlier. I'm going to go back to using Apple Mail again because it is like useful. The problem with Apple Mail has always been that search sucks, which I assume is still the case. And it doesn't have the split inboxes in Gmail, which I've actually now come to rely on. they're not very good, but they're better than just dumping everything into your one inbox. And at least when I go to promotions, it's like mostly stuff I don't want.

And when I go to updates, it's like mostly newsletters and receipts. Again, not perfect, but pretty good. And if Apple can do that stuff even that well, it immediately becomes the best email app on the iPhone, like by a mile. And so I'm cautiously optimistic. I just, the Gmail app is so bad.

I want to believe for you. It's not good. Yeah. That's why you got to use Outlook. No. The Gmail app. sucks about Outlook. This is, well, A, everything.

B, it's very slow. But C, when you open an email, the archive button, which is the only button that matters on an email app, is all the way at the top right of the screen where it is completely unreachable no matter how you hold your phone. Ridiculous. You archive them? Do you just leave them? Oh, you're, oh, crap. I'm discovering I hate you in this episode. Oh, no.

Don't worry about my little member. You have a 12,000, don't you. Don't it's fine. You read it, then mark it as unread for the chaos, and then go about your business. Yeah, like, sometimes I'll be like, oh, that's spam. I'll leave it unread so I can go one day. No. One.

Oh, that hurts my soul. That's what they do it. Second, the Gmail app has actually solved this by way of a bug that is still not fixed, which is sometimes when you open an email from the notification on the Gmail app for iOS, it just deletes the email. I've noticed it. And it's just like, how do you get here? How did you arrive at the state, Google?

All that AI, and I bet what you wanted to do was immediately delete this email that you actually chose to take an action on. Then action was delete. And that's how I pit inbox zero. Congratulations. That's really exciting. Yeah. Reading it is not important to getting to inbox zero. I no longer.

I'm just going to want the robot to summarize the email. I can't believe you picked fucking mail out. I honestly, the more I think about it, the more excited I think. But also the thing where you can now group by sender, so I'm like the one. the one time you go to a restaurant and then they send you an email every day for the rest of your life going and clicking the unsubscribe button too much work doing it in gmail doesn't work that's just a lie that they tell you uh but now you can group them and just delete them all at once yeah i like that i'm excited i'm excited for the same idea everyone else has which is like you're planning a trip

all the emails from your trip are going to be a little digest of trip emails love great i'm super excited for you in mail out thank you it's going to be an awesome like six days. Yeah. And then somebody will update their app again. And I'll be like, maybe they fixed it and they didn't. Yeah, but I will try it again. You've got a problem and it's fine because it keeps you writing.

I do it for work now. Allison, what are you saying? Yeah. All right. What are yours, Allison? Minor messaging related. Ooh. I am because I test a lot of Android phones.

I am usually a person on Android in the group chat. Do you turn an I message on when you test an iPhone and then off when you stop? Yeah. Does it ruin your life every time you do that? Kind of, like, possibly I have missed out on friendships, you know, things happening. I don't know. When you de-enroll from IMessage, you miss messages like for days.

Yeah, yeah. It's insane. I think there's people I just don't talk to anymore. Because they probably try to message me. No, I do this. I do it with RCS. So, like, yeah, RCS and I message is going to fix everything. me. I feel really good about my...

Oh, man. That's even more optimistic than David picking mail out. I love this. Well, you can send high resolution. It's photos now. It's the photos because like right now when in the group chat, we're sharing photos over our kids doing cute things. And I have to be like, I'm sorry. I'm screwing up the, you know, the quality of the images here. Can you just send them to my husband or can we put them in a group? There's so many Google photos albums.

It's like, oh, God. How are you on any group chats in tech? I love the idea of everybody sending photos back and forth, and then you just sending Google Photos links. Oh, my God, yeah. Check out my cool photos. You have really good friends. I know.

They are so patient. Those are sort of like rock solid. You know what? There was one Android guy and he just switched to iPhone too. I was like, oh, now it's just me. Yeah. So that's it. RCS is going to fix everything.

for me, I feel good about it. That is a good one. Yeah. And scheduling messages. Yes, that's a clutch one. I message only. I'm going to schedule so many messages for like seven minutes from now. Just so it's not like immediately thirsty, but like within 10 is too much.

Yeah. Yeah. Seven, seven minutes or not. It fixes the like, oh, you just texted me. I'm going to text you right back. But that like seems weird. And then I'm going to forget about it. And then never text you back.

Those are the only two options that exist. Honestly, I'm so glad you both just said that. This is my main problem as a person. Because I will read your message. And if I respond, if I am in the right headspace to respond to it, I'm very responsive. I'm ready. But if I do the thing where I put my phone down, we're done. I'm never ever getting back to it.

And I will just feel an increasing sense of guilt. Like, I could name you right now off the top of my head 15 people I owe text messages to who are never getting text messages from me. Do you name them? Name them now. This will be the greatest TikTok in the Russian history. Name the 15 people you know that you are supposed to take. Under no circumstances.

But all of them know who they are, which is the beauty of it. And I'm just... Seven minutes around. They should just add it as a default button. Send in seven minutes. Yeah, right? Yeah. Send, but be cool. Be cool about it.

Yeah. This is like the swingers button. All right. I can't believe my picture. Hey, Eli, what are yours? What are you? picks? I picked one that I stand by, which is phone mirroring, and remote iOS access for

grandparent tech support. Game changers. Game changers all the way around. And that's it. Yeah. No, if you had one more. What was it? At the time, I did not know what we were picking.

I thought we were just picking some cool features. I did not know that I would create false conflict with David in the iPad segment. And I picked the calculator. Okay, Eli, I would like you, I would like you to do the following. I would like you to right now make the case that the calculator app is the missing thing on the iPad, and the iPad is now perfect and complete. I would like you to make that case right now. The problem with the iPad for the past 13 years has been its inability to do simple mathematics.

Because we've all known. And now you can. That was it. I do want to say quickly, just to pour one out for the app called Solver, which is an awesome, very cool, very clever app where you can just like type out the math you're trying to do. Just like, the bill is $65. There's four of us. How much does everybody owe the 20% tip? And it just answers your math questions like that.

Apple just full Sherlock that app today. No, because you would have to get out your iPad and start writing with a pencil. at dinner, and I just don't, I don't think that's what's happening here. They're like, oh, do you want to sign the check? And you're like, not yet. Hold on. I've got to draw dinner. How much of the apps did you pay?

I agree that they took a lot of those ideas. But yeah, I don't, I think Solvers fun because it's an iPhone app, right? Yeah. It's very good on the iPhone. It's unbelievable they're not adding any of these calculator features to the iPhone. It's like the iPhone and the iPad will never have the same calculator experience. The epiphany that I had during the live blog today was that everybody desperately wants the iPad to become a Mac. And what it actually is is an iPhone with a stylus.

Yes. And to the extent that that changes what you can do on it, Apple is like pushing really hard on that idea. That like because there's a stylist, you can do new things. That's the whole bent of the iPad right now. When we get the folding phone. Yeah, it's going to be sick. When it folds. Yeah.

It may well be. But it is like it is further and further away from being a Mac all the time. And then you can use your folding iPad on your computer because it will do iPhone mirroring. And then you plug in your Vision Pro and you get a giant ass monitor. Bringing it all to you. We fixed it. I think I've never been more depressed about computers than after that entire sequence. What?

I actually think we saw a lot from Apple today, which indicates this company, can actually have new ideas, which is sort of, It would not been the case for a minute. Right? Like, they're like, we added theming to iOS for grants. Great. Thank you. Stuff that all the platforms have had forever. Even though all these AI features are kind of the same, like, as everybody else, they've

integrated them into the operating system in better ways. They have a better story to tell. Like, here's why it's useful as opposed to like, here's just the raw amount of compute that we can throw at a problem, which is basically how Google handles things. But I come back to this thing about the iPad and so they still don't know why they make this thing. they just don't know yeah it gets increasingly cool

without ever getting yeah more itself yeah i think they make it because they sell them yeah and that's kind of and it's like they need to kickstart that somehow or do they because they sell them that's true i think the my bold prediction here is the iPhone thing is heading towards a touchscreen on a mac

because you put the iPhones display in a mac there's but one thing people are going to S to start doing with it and start touching it. Swipe. Yeah. I just want to swipe TikTok in a tiny window on my map. I just want to respond to a Google notification directly on a mirrored iPhone window and immediately delete that message for no reason.

It's the future. All right. Is that it? Is that our show? That's it. Since six hours long, we have more. We're going to go through all the betas that we're seeing. We'll run through additional features on Friday.

What day is? It says Monday. It says Monday. Who. Yeah, for Friday's show, we're going to do sort of a, cleanup because like I said there's been a ton of new stuff that we've seen if people have been installing the betas we have a lot more white paper reading to do work so we're going to do a like everything we didn't talk about thing on Friday show so if there is stuff we didn't talk about if you

work it another company don't make any news yeah oh my god please honestly I'm begging turn it off we have to talk about the stupid Xbox and we have to talk about this so the show is done no more news this week all right that's it thank you for listening thank you Allison for joining us We'll be back on Friday with more of this, which you love. And all the platforms you love the most. Well, that's it. That's our chast, rock around. And that's it for the Vergecast this week.

Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a call at 866 Verge 1-1. The Vergecast is a production of the Verge and Vox Media Podcast Network. Our show is produced by Andrew Marino and Liam James. That's it. We'll see you next week.