The Vergecast - Hack the planet

Episode Date: August 26, 2016

This week on Vergecast, it's Wilderness Week! Nilay, Paul, and Dieter welcome video director James Temple to the show to talk about his new Verge series, Climate Hackers, which features scientists set on trying to reverse the effects of climate change. The cast also goes into this week in tech: the performance of the Galaxy Note 7, Apple's rumored Snapchat clone, as well as Android Nougat and the problem with getting it on certain phones. 2:07 - Android Nougat 14:02 - Android update problem persists 18:41 - Note 7 performance 25:08 - Apple rumors 34:50 - Citi ad 35:22 - Climate Hackers with James Temple 47:03 - GraphicStock ad 48:19 - Paul's "Let me touch you with science" weekly segment 52:53 - Lightning round Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is bad. I should start over? All right, let's do it. Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of Theverge.com. The website that Paul thinks is about everything. Oh, you just put that on me now. On blast, Paul. Anyway, I want to talk about Plato and jewelry.

Oh. Plato, the malleable material? Yes. Or Plato, the ancient philosopher? Both, actually. Okay. There's a lot to be learned. Anyway, I'm Neil I Patel.

I'm Paul Miller. I'm Dieter Bone. There you go. It can be a great episode today. Lots of stuff going on. We have a whole segment in the middle. That's going to be fun. It's Wilderness Week at theverge.com this week, if you didn't know, lots of excellent wilderness content about being outside.

And honestly, a lot of gross things happen outside. We wrote about them all. But it was the 100-year anniversary of the National Park Service. And as you know this, but T.C. Sotic, before he worked at the Verge. but worked in the government where he was a lobbyist, but he wasn't one of those fat cats. He begged the government for money

for the park system. That saddest lobbyist ever. I was like, you'd a lot of stick dinners? He's like, no one fed me anything. Did he get paid in like leaves? Like pine cones? Anyhow, we have a bunch of people of the verge who love the outdoors,

Liz, T.C., Zelenco. People love being outside. It's the new hot stuff in 2016. Outside is the new inside. Anyway, so it's wilderness week. We run a bunch of stories around the anniversary. James Temple, one of our talented video directors, has a series called Climate Hackers that he's interested in starting up.

There's a bunch of people doing crazy stuff to sort of counteract global warming. So he's going to be on the show later on, talking about his first episode. But for now, there's a couple things we've got to do. One, I just have to say the word says or vodka, cut through the night. Okay, got it. Because the sponsor is so demanding. Check. And that sponsor is me.

Second, we're going to talk about some tech news. Yeah. How's that tech news going? It's going. Yeah. All right, so what happens to this week? Android 7.0, Nougat. Newget.

Or as our British friend, James Barron, pronounces it, Nugar. Nugar. That's a thing, huh. Apparently. So, Deva, you reviewed it. I did. And, you know, it's Android. It's a really good Android release.

So, okay, I'll talk about it. The most important stuff about it is it does split screen. That's like the thing that, like, as a user, you will see. So on both phones and tablets, you can now split the screen in half and do stuff on two different windows and adjust the size of the windows. The other things that you should know, you know, it does better security, I guess. I don't know. You can change the keyboard color.

It's Android. Yeah, you can change. Oh, so the keyboard thing is hilarious. It's actually technically not Nuget. It's just the Google keyboard. You can now theme the keyboard. board, which is hilarious. No, the other user-facing thing that I actually do want to talk about is notifications.

I could get pretty deep on notifications, but I feel like I've always felt like Android does better with notifications, and I feel like it just continues to do better with notifications than iOS. So the change here is you can long press on it to adjust, like, priority or adjust whether or not you want to see the damn things. Android's had this priority system for a long time, but nobody uses it. And so now they've just made it a straightforward thing where you're just like, show them silently or block them. The priority's still there if you want to go hunting for it,

but nobody wants to do that because we're normal humans. The other thing they added to notifications is quick replies, which was a long time coming. I always said it for a while now Android has it properly instead of like on a weird app by app basis. I feel like with Android, when I use Android, I end up getting tons of notifications for things that I don't care about. So this sounds like it would really,

match my problem. More so than you do on the iPhone? Well, like, I feel like every time, and maybe it's because I don't use Android enough, but I feel like every time I turn on the phone, it's like, hey, guess what? This, like, service that relies on this other service updated or it's thinking about updated,

what do you think? Or like, there's like more of the internals are notifying you that they're updating all the time. I like their, what do you think? Android has updated several of your apps. What do you think about that? you think and you're just like that's great i'm so proud of you google play is always updating and then it's like you can't ever install new applications with maybe it's because i have an s6 and the s6 is just the worst it seems you don't use your phone enough probably that too if you use it every day you haven't turned it on for a month of course you're going to get when you turn it on it's going to like take in all the notifications that you haven't received yet i like to think of that as xbox disease or ps4 syndrome my xbox 1s i wanted to play a video game last night and i had to to wait 45 minutes to do it.

Because it was updating. We've talked about this a bunch of times in the show, but the Xbox silent overnight update is just, it's just one of those things where if it works, it's great. But it could also just be a lie, like a shared delusion that people have about the Xbox. And that it does that? Yeah, it's like, you know, it updates at night. Yeah, absolutely it updates at night. Has that ever happened to you?

Mine has never updated at night. But have I had a shared delusion with several other. people. Yeah. I went to college. There does something, there's something about the way the Xbox changes the UI very frequently that makes me feel like I'm being like like a gaslight situation. That never happened to you. I can't quite remember what's different. What's new? What's changed? It's like, oh yeah, that was always there. It's like, what? What if they just go back to blades? Oh, I miss the blades. With the. triggers.

It was so silly. They really. Android. Oh, Android. What if Android had been right? That'd be fine. Wait, I want to talk about multitasking. Yeah.

Are you using it? Like, do you have a situation on your phone? Because I think there's an ideal situation as a writer where you can pull up reference information on one side, put like a text document on the other side, and you can write and reference. And like, now you can actually do your job because you have multitasking. Or split screen. So on a tablet, absolutely yes.

and it's great. On the phone, it's hard because, like, that standard situation of I want to type some notes and look at my reference, like there's only so much space even on a big phone for fitting the keyboard

and to Windows. So I'll use it for, like, I'm watching a video and the video is kind of boring, but I'm not going to stop watching it, so I'll throw Twitter up and scroll through tweets, right? You know, and I'll also use it.

I'll do a little bit of note-taking, but it's sort of one of those things where like if you need it, you'll feel it and then you can use it and it's great and most of the time you won't. But it's kind of convenient. The thing that's interesting to me about the multitasking is how it sort of gets handled. You don't think of it as like you've got two windows and you can do whatever you want with them. When you multitask, you're basically like pinning the left hand and or top app and you can't switch that one easily. Like you've got to like bail out of split screen, then switch that app and go back into split screen to switch the left hand app. Yeah. So basically, basically,

what, think of it as pinning. So like the right hand app or the bottom app, you can switch around, you can, you know, go back to the home screen and open something else up and just run down the line and move it around. But the app on the left is harder to switch. You have to like pay a lot of it. So it's like in the same way that on iOS you like slide that thing over to the right, but the main app is just sort of there. But when you change, go hit home, you're messing with the main app. But the app on the right that you slide in is like different. Like the interaction model for changing stuff is different. Yeah. They don't have two different. interaction models for finding your app on Android,

so it's a little bit smarter, but you just have to get it in your head that it takes a minute to figure out how to change the app on the left or the top. Wait, that's not exactly right about iOS, that's kind of right. No, because the interaction model is only different for the smaller app.

Right. So you can slide the slider all the way to the left and make the app big on the right and then make the app on the left small. Oh, you can do that on Android too. You can still slide it over, but when you want to switch an app, you're always switching the app on the right. Whereas on iOS, when you want to switch the app on the right,

you get that weird, like, vertical tile multitask thing. Yeah, but I'm saying, but you can change the nature of that app by making it the bigger app. And then the home button will change that app and the vertical switcher thing will change the app on the left. Are you sure? Yeah, it's really weird. I play with it.

If you watch the Mr. Robot After Show and you see me staring at that iPad all the time, I might be reading comments from the IRC, or it might just be fucking with the iOS multitasker because it's really fun. Yeah, no, it's like all that is wild to me. Have we found useful? Have we found the right way to do this yet?

No. I feel like it's not correct on OS 10 either. You don't think OS 10 multitasking works? What? Oh, the OS 10 split screen stuff. Yeah, it's really weird. The OS 10 split screen stuff really wants you to use multiple like spaces and go full screen on stuff.

And so, like, your old school desktop windows live over here, but your split screen stuff lives over there. Right. And I almost never use it. I use, like, a third-party tool to, like, manage my windows because I don't, like, get panicked by having more than two windows on the screen at once. Dude, I'm still on Yosemite. I'm just going to be real with everybody.

Yeah, I use better snap tool to, like, snap my windows around, which basically emulates, like, the windows style of, like... Yeah, the window snap stuff is good. I like that. But, I don't know. I'll probably upgrade to elk. But I like Deeter, I have a wide variety of weird window hacks. Like utilities that are just kind of like.

I think I actually have better snap tool. And I use stay, which when you plug in a monitor, it remembers all the window positions. That one's real good. What's the one that you use Deeter? I use Moom, M-O-O-M, which combines all of the above into a single tool. And I'm pretty pleased with it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think we figured this out exactly right.

Because I use that iOS 10 multitasking once a week for the robot show because I need to monitor Twitter and IRC at the same time. And I can't have a laptop, so it's fine to do it on a tablet. Right. But every week I'm like, there's something about this that is not exactly right yet. Well, the classic place where you have like real power over split screen is like in a text editor like VIM or in like a terminal like T-Mux or something like that. And you use all these key commands to like you're basically. in a frame and you put in a key command that will split that frame either in half vertically or in half horizontally and then you have key commands to like jump between them and then from within that

frame it's like it's a whole operating system or it's a whole text editor or whatever so then you can change what's happening in that frame in that tile or whatever that model that I want that basically requires a keyboard and memorization of keyboard commands I do kind of like a GUI a little bit I don't want to have a keyboard command of everything. I think, but to like meet in the middle, it's what Paul's talking about is that there's that model, but it's two independently full-powered

environment. Right. There's something about that split, and now I can do anything in either split. Right. And on a... So, desktop PC, every window is independently a full app. Right. And in all these... The nice thing that Android is doing... Go ahead. Sorry. The nice thing that Andrew is doing with its split

screen is it, from the jump, will let you have a Chrome window in both windows. which it took taking iOS until I think 10 to get there. Oh, and I forgot about the best part about the way multitasking works in Android. You can double tap the square button, which, by the way, did you know the square button is called the overview button? No. What? I thought it was a home button.

It's called, no, the home button is a circle button. And then the multitask button, the square button is the overview button. Whatever. You can double tap it and it'll just switch to your last app and double tap it again and it'll switch back. Hold on. The square button, the buttons are... Hold on. The square button typically brings up that slide, the deck of...

The multitasking. Yeah, that's what I think of it as. Yeah, it's called the overview button, and that's called the overview. Has it always been called the overview button? I don't know. I just had a moment of pure panic where I couldn't remember what order those buttons were in. Because it's a square circle on a train. You used a Samsung phone recently, and they swap them.

Yeah, it was like, I don't know what's going on here. What button is which? Yeah. But no, like just like being able to really like how like when I switch apps, I'm almost always like going from like one password to the other app or between like Twitter and Chrome or something and like just being able to pop up up real quick is super convenient. So I installed Newgate on my 6P, my beloved Huawei built Nexus 6P. I swear it made it slower. Oh no. But I don't know if it's just like it's doing the thing where I hadn't had it on like a week. Right. It's got to get all. It's like Google. update in the world. Google Play wants to update so bad.

Yeah, Google Play is like, I haven't talked to the Google servers. I want to tell them everything. Google's called alphabet now? Oh, this changes. I'm so on touch. So I don't know if it's that or if it's just like some post-install optimization, but do you notice that, Deeter? Is that just me?

I mean, I just felt like it was chugging. For a while. So I haven't noticed that. But, like, I mean, Android mysteriously chugging for people has been in. the news this week, hasn't it? Excellent transition, my friend. Do you want to talk about it? There's one more Nuget note.

Yeah, yeah. Actually, there's a lot more we could get into with Nuget, but I don't know. I don't know what you are. Well, I want to know everything. But the one that we should talk about is the Android update problem persists, right? Like, yeah. I think Vlad wrote a thing, a classic Vlad. The Experia Z3 is not getting Nuget.

The phone is not even two years old. Remember, what's something like the Android Update Guarantee for a minute? What did they call that? No, they do it every year. There's like a new Gambit to try and make this happen. Yeah, this year the Gambit was they released the beta like way back in March and we'll see. Well, they were also talking about how they're going to update it more like piecemeal now, something like that. They do that with Play Services a little bit.

Right, the apps will. So there's like three things you need to be paying attention to now with Android Updemeal. There's like the core, are you going to get the latest version of the OS, which is as messy as it has ever been? And we'll see what happens if the earlier beta helped with that. There's, uh, they're rolling more stuff into Google Play services instead of into the core of Android so they can push out stuff, uh, to more phones more quickly. And they're unbundling some things from the core OS. That's great, uh, except that it, um, you know, it means that like more of Android is tied to Google instead of to, you know, the idea of being built into Android. So that applies to stuff like the browser and a few other places.

And then the third thing to be aware of now with Android are the monthly security updates. And so when you go to Samsung or HDC or Motorola or whoever and they release a new phone, instead of saying, hey, are you going to update the latest version of Android and when, you need to say, hey, are you going to update the latest version of Android and when? And also, hey, are you committing to installing the monthly security updates that Google is putting out for this version of Android? And the answers to all of those questions are really frustrating and bad. And that's a problem. There was just a terrible iOS security flaw.

And by the time I had heard of it, and I work at a tech publication, but I was working hard today and I wasn't paying attention. And by the time I'd heard of it, there was an update available on my phone. And I've updated it now and come at me, hackers. Don't actually face it. Wow. But I'm updated. I'll give you physical access to Paul's phone.

You can hold it in your hand and see how much you can get out of it. No, it was like a really bad one too. It was like a click this link and we own your phone level bad. And people were just getting texted with it. But yeah, like Apple just fixed it. The worst part about the Android thing is they actually with new phones coming out with Nugit, they have an incredibly good update system. It's called seamless updates.

So there's actually two parts of your memory where they store the operating system. And it will, like an Xbox is supposed to, I guess, it will silently download the next version of the OS in the background onto the other partition. And then when it's time, when it's done and verified, the next time you boot up, it just boots off of that new OS on the new partition. And then the old partition just hangs out just in case until the next OS update comes along. How often, but you have to reboot the smart. Do you have to actually reboot the phone? Yeah, you reboot the phone. But then when you reboot the phone, because they have a, a new JIT compiler for art apps,

and they've got some other stuff that you're not going to have to watch every single Android app update after an OS update. It will. They compile themselves as necessary just in time. I'm being really fast and loose with the technical stuff here, partially because it's a podcast. The people at XDA are literally taking a transcript of this right now. Oh, man.

There's a calm. JIT does stand for just in time. Yes, it does. Anyway, the bottom line is like, Google has, especially with Android 7.0 Nuger, they've built a really, really good update system. And I would love it

if the OEMs and the carriers and Google could get in a room and agree to use it. But I would also, like, I'm tired of complaining about it. But I did it again in this review, like half the reviews me complaining about this situation. But like, I don't even know who to yell it anymore.

I kind of just don't even like, it's like, eh, yeah. Like, is it Google's fault? Yes. Is it Samsung's fault? Yes. Is it Verizon's fault? Absolutely yes.

This is why I can't buy a note six, right? Like, I want to buy a note six. Really like a note six? Or note seven. They skipped six. They skipped six. It's like my brain is broken. I want to buy a note seven, but I can't because I just don't want to live in that hole.

So I'm just going to keep using Nexus funds. Don't worry. Fuchsia will fix everything. All right. We should talk. Yeah, Fusha. That's going to work. We should talk about the performance of the note seven, actually.

It was a thing that came up this week. sadly Dan Seafurt is out so we can't have him talk about it directly but Deeter you want to walk us through it well a few things out so the reviews came out dancing really happy with the performance of the note seven it seemed to him to be on par with other snapdragon 820 phones but then there's a video comparing it's like speed at launching multiple apps compared to a six s iPhone success and the iPhone seems to do way better and uh xDA wrote a wrote a piece where they they ran some benches and and did some stuff, and they are like, the real world, you know, use of this thing is horrendous. It's like particularly Dropbox is bad.

That's like my favorite one. Yeah. And it's like, you know, I, in order to like verify these claims more fully, we need to run through every single carrier variant because like there's like, there's talk that like the Verizon version is way west than, way worse than say the T-Mobile version. So. Well, T-Mobile version compresses every video frame. Yeah. So that's fine. But the knock on Android has always been that.

it's got a little bit of jank to it, especially compared to iOS. And I mean, I can't say that's not totally true, right? Yeah. Things have gotten better, and they've thrown a lot of horsepower on it, and they've done a bunch of stuff. There's been a bunch of initiatives inside Google to speed up the OS and, you know, etc. Project Butter. Butter, yeah.

Remember Project Butter? When Google stood on stage and said, our big initiative is called Project Butter. It's clear that my brain cannot hold all the Google initiatives anymore. I want Google to start an initiative where they try to cut down on the number of initiatives, and then I'll pay attention. Project streamline. Project streamline the butter. I know it's gotten better.

The thing I want from the note... All we can say is, like, Dan's experience with the Note 7 was that it was fast. But, like, he may have been using a different version than everybody else, or it, like, sometimes Android just takes longer to, like, start to get janky. Yeah, and there was an on-in-like piece where they did a bunch of benchmarks, and their conclusion was, it's on par with all the other 820 phones. it's like better in some places and worse than something. And I think that's fair. I do think the Samsung phones in particular kind of like wear themselves into a state of being pretty sludgy after a while. And that's like, I am interested in like how anyone thinks as a review organization we should do.

Like, do we need to review the phone in six months and be like, it got slow? Because someone like Dan can't really do that because he's got to review all the other phones. Yeah. The notion of Samsung phones. phone's getting sludgy after a while, I think until they figure out a way to fix it, which they should fix. We should probably think about it. I don't know. But I think the phone is fast enough, right? Like, unless you're looking for absolute performance, I don't think you're going to notice, at least is the takeaway that I've gotten from the people who have the phone.

Yeah, I mean, that's basically where I'm at. I haven't used it myself for long enough to weigh in, but like, you know, I talked to Dan about it. He's on vacation. He called me from the beach and was like, I'm using it right now. It's fast. but you know like it's also like there's and and this is the really hard part about it is like when you talk about real world performance you get into like really like personal things you get really like this is how I experience it and how I experience it's how you know somebody that's like watching for the slowdown might experience it totally differently and but like I think there's some there's some there there's some there there with the note seven not being as fast as it ought to be especially given it specs but like the there that's there is so wildly different across different characters. versions and different like different installs of crap that gets put on phones from whatever your phone is that it's like it's really difficult to like super pin down like objectively yeah right and software phone like the moment you start to have more apps on your phone or you've open some and closed some and like you've got a few files on your in your storage and you've the ram is warmed up

and then yeah i love that warm ram like that was a major part of project butter was pre-warming the RAM. I'm trying to agree with Dieter is that there are wildly divergent states that an operating system can get in with very little use. Yeah. So your day one phone, even your day one phone is slightly different. Maybe, you know, you've got slightly different chips or slightly different, you know, like you got a bum unit.

I don't know what I'm talking about. They're just all over the place right now. No, like the yield, the processor yield was bad somehow. Yeah. And you got some cold RAMs. You got a bomb unit. Real garbage. Let's just move on.

Let's just move on. Let's just move on. Let's just move on. But anyway, but I will say the overall problem for as good as people think the Snapdragon 820 is, is that Apple is way out ahead of them in terms of raw performance. So any underlying jank and iOS gets smoothed over. And they're just going to put out a new processor soon, presumably in a new phone, is going to be even faster.

Right. So Apple gets to get away. with more jank and then they control the whole stack. Right. So there is fundamentally kind of like Wes. Because like Samsung is supposed to be using like Vulcan and like trying to really speed up like their user interface and stuff like that. Yeah. Well, the Vulcan stuff applies to games right now.

Like it's not like Vulcan runs the UI. But Samsung is porting parts of TouchWiz to Vulcan. Because Vulcan is basically how you talk to the GPU and you want the GPU to accelerate your user interface, not just. I can't believe it's like. A decade into mobile and we're just now getting to, we're using the GPU to explore. No, we've been using the GPU for a long time. So why is Vulcan better? It's just that, like, Apple's, Apple has the metal API.

No, that's what I mean. It's taken us all the way to now to, like, build the systems. Before they were using, like, OpenGL. Apple was using OpenGL. What was Android using? OpenGEL and Android, too? Yep. I don't know that.

OpenGL. What a garbage fire that is. It seems like OpenGL sucks. how it's taking us a long way. Do you remember when Apple added OpenGL to the Mac and it was like the world's biggest deal? Do you remember a game they demoed OpenGL with on the Mac? Is that Halo?

It was what became, it was Marathon. It was, yeah. No, Bungee made Marathon and then they demonstrated Halo at a Mac world and then Microsoft. It was going to come out of both Mac and Windows at the same time. And then, yeah. OpenGL. The Dream is dead.

Halo is only for the Xbox one. And that's never going to update. Anyway. And Windows. There are some Apple news that we should talk about. Yeah. A little bit. So if you've been following the Apple media beat, and I know that our listeners, media critics through and through, you know that Mark Gurman, who was the 9-to-5 Mac Scoop Machine, is now at Bloomberg.

Scoop Machine. Scoot Machine. Still being a scoop machine. And Daisuke Wakabayashi, who was the Wall Street Journal's Apple Scoop Machine, is now at the New York Times. It's a big new competition for both of them. I'm just saying. The wins are changing. Apple Scoop game.

So the scoop machines continue to scoop, but for different publications. Yes. And I think particularly in German's case, a much larger, richer. Right. Mike Bloomberg is just like, German, give me an Apple Scoop, and it throws a bag of money at him, and then something happens. You know, that's the thing. Whenever I talk to somebody who's like not really, like doesn't really know a lot

about what the verge is, all they ever say is like, just tell me when the next iPhone's going to come out. You've got inside information, right? Tell me when the next iPhones can come out. That's all anybody wants to know. That's all anybody wants to know. And the answer is next week. On Tuesday, no.

That's what I always say. Like, next week, go buy one now. It's going to have three headphone jacks. Anyway, Bloomberg had a little scoop. Apple working on a Snapchat clone for the next version, and presumably come out with the new phone and iOS 10 when that launches. And then I thought this one was really interesting. Back Channel, the medium publication run by Stephen Levy, legendary sort of tech features writer

Stephen Levy, had just an incredibly long piece about Apple and AI, featuring like photos of Apple executives and pastel shirts in front of whiteboards on which equations had been written, which is always like my favorite sort of like, how do we illustrate this complicated story technique? And both of those together, kind of are the same story, which is Apple is in this very, very, reactive mode, right? They know what people are doing on the phone. They know what the industry is all about. Tim Cook just gave a big profile interviewer Fast Company. He talked about AI in that as well. Obviously, Apple's competitors have been talking, and I think we've done 90 episodes of the show on

like bots. Right. But Apple's competitors have been talking about bots and assistants and messaging. And Apple's saying, your AI stuff is cute. And then to back channel, the whole story is, but we've been doing it forever. And Siri got. So much better, you wouldn't even believe it, because we added some AI to it. And there's no way to measure it because you wouldn't, there's no before and after, obviously. But there's that, which is we're already ahead of the curve in AI. We have the best AI people working Apple. And then we just don't have a specific division for it, and we don't brag about it as much.

It's just sort of confused the company. Research. Yeah. They just make the stuff and ship it, which is, you know, the Apple way. And then on the flip side, there's this, like, leak that Apple is going to do this, like, video, sharing. social network. And both of those to me are the biggest trends right now in tech as near as I can tell are AI and bots on sort of the deep research feature side. And on the what are the kids doing side, it's very much like Instagram stories and Snapchat and these like weird share a moment of

your life products. And obviously Apple's doing a lot of that in I message, they're blowing it out. but the idea that they're going to build another dedicated kind of social network just points to a reactivity that we're not really used to seeing. I mean, this is the only other Apple social network I can think of is ping. Now, guy, it's kind of unclear to me. Like, is this really a social network or is this a way? Because one thing that I communicate a lot over I message, but you can make weird or cooler things than Snapchat or, you know, some other app, right?

Mm-hmm. And so for there to be an Apple-native way to just, like, I don't know, make a cool thing for delivery over I-Message. That makes a- Or delivery over Twitter or Facebook or whatever. Right, yeah. It would be the generic way to make a cool thing to share to lots of these different places. There's generic photo filters in the camera app. Right. But they would add more stuff to it.

Like, that's the other thing. Is this going to be an independent app or built into the camera? Maybe like a little doggy face. Did you think about a little doggy face? This one's called Hudson. Oh my gosh. Can you wait for the keynote when they go through each of their filters? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Like imagine, imagine a deliberate, like, this one makes your eyes really big and your voice high. Now, you might have seen stuff like this, but we wanted to do it right. Yeah. Your voice is really high and fun. I mean, like, let's see. We used machine learning AI as some people like to crow about to train a neural network with people talking after inhaling helium. It sounds so much like you inhaled helium.

This one turns into a puppy. This one turns you into an actual puppy. Let's just wait. I mean, like the inevitable Craig Federigi Eddie Q puppy message is coming for us. Are you ready? Wow. Are you ready for that one? Yes.

Yes. Is there one that's just going to put Craig Federiq. use hair on you. I hope so. I would use that one. We all need that one. So, I mean, the, the thing that I'll say about, like, they, I don't trust Apple to, like, build a social network, really. I just, like, I don't think that they could pull it off. Not at all. Like, I don't, I don't expect them to be able to do that. I would like to see them create a tool to make more fun stuff that is, you know, maybe in the, in the line of, you know, my favorite app that I won't shut up about motion stills. You know, they could make stuff to make more cool things.

then I could put them on whatever network I feel like. That's fine. But the thing about it is like how many Apple actual like iPhone apps do you like deeply truly love at this point? Like that's kind of the problem. Like do people deeply love Apple music? Maybe they've got a shot. Do people deeply love Safari? Well, they depend on it.

But do they really like use it day to day? Like there are apps on the phone on phones that are getting made by other people that people have a deep, like, I love Snapchat or I love Instagram. I love this app. And Apple, like, it makes the OS. And so its apps are, like, all kind of utilities. Nobody deeply loves the mail app. I don't know anybody that deeply likes the mail app.

And so... Everyone deeply with Sands the mail app. Right? Does Apple want to get in the game of, like, making apps that people, like, deeply, dearly love? I really think they should. I think it's been a while since I've seen them put something out. I was like, oh, my God, this thing makes my heart flutter.

I mean, if you think about, like, What was, I mean, this is maybe comparing apples and oranges because it's old-timey computer history. But when you thought of the original Macintosh, it's like, oh, sure, you could do, you know, nerdy, lame stuff on PCs, on the IBMs. You can push a button and split the window into two different editors. But with a Macintosh, you can draw pictures. You can do word processing. We've got these laser printers. And there's definitely like a, I imagine Apple philipers.

if they made a really good app, it becomes kind of like a class thing a little bit. Like the blue bubbles and the green bubbles. And the screencaps of the Notes app? I mean, how many celebrities have you ever seen post a editorial that they wrote in Android Notes app? His name is Donald Trump. There's no such an app. There's no such an app.

He's the one. There's Google Keep, I guess. No, Trump uses an Android phone. That's like, yeah, but those are Android notes. No, but does he screencap the notes app for editorial? I will give you a month off if you can get into Trump Tower and teach Donald Trump how to take a screenshot on his Android phone. Cool. If that's a video we can make, literally, you can just leave for a month.

I'll give you a $1,000. What? Yeah, I'll just keep amping it up. I'll buy you a car. What? You get a video. You're going to buy me a car? I won't be a good car.

But I'll buy you a car. If you, we get a video of you teaching Trump to screenshot on his Android phone. And then do celebrity style. So then we can get like longer. Longer form Trump. I'm into it. We all need longer form Trump sometimes. He's the only celebrity I can think of it, like consistently using it.

Kim Kardashian used a classic Blackberry. That's the only other one. Right. Except the, uh, oh, was it her that? Her last Blackberry just died? Yeah. And so she's like on the hunt for more and there's no more on eBay. Yeah.

I'll buy you a car if you can get King Kardashian in a Blackberry. Wait, what? I'm just going to start promising people cars for impossible stories. I mean, I'm not saying it will be a good car. In fact, I already know what car. And also, I don't want a car, so I'm going to just turn around and sell it right away. Well, it's going to be like one of those, like, really beaten down $800 jigs rangers. Why don't it just give me the $1,000?

I like the $1,000. Because I want you to have, like, a really, really wrecked white Jeep Wrangler. To drive around in for my, like, month off. Yeah. I forgot I promise you the month off. Yeah. Damn it. This could be great.

FYI, Chrissy Tegan sent Kim Kardashian flowers in a card. All right. Anybody knows how I can get a hold of. Of, DJT. Out of Mr. Trump, just hit me up. My DMs are open at FuturePaul. But the only thing you can do with him is teach him how to take a screenshot. I'm going to teach him how a screenshot on Android.

Like, I want that video. I think that would be a great video. That's fine. All right. Let's read an ad for a bank. And then we're going to come back with James Temple. The Vergecast, as you know, is supported by city cards with Android pay. How cool is it that we live in a world where you can use the same device to listen to the Vergecasts?

buy your morning coffee, groceries, and more. Did I mention that it's a super fast way to pay? Just use your city card with Android pay at the register. Get in, get it, and get going. Download the Android Pay app on Google Play or visit city.com slash Android Pay to get started. Android Pay is available for eligible city, consumer, credit, and debit cards. So we're back.

What a wonderful ad read that was. They're the best. Wilderness Week here at the Verge. Celebrating Great Outdoors. I love being outside. That's a lie. I do. I mean, it's tolerable.

But other people love being outside, and the problem with being outside is that it just keeps getting hotter and hotter. It has been a miserable summer. Anyway, James Temple is here, James, one of our great video directors. You've got a new series kind of brewing up. You want to tell us about it? Yeah, so just this week we finally launched climate hackers, which we've been working on for the last couple months. Basically, we're taking a look at, you know, obviously climate change is a big deal and a big problem and an important issue. but instead of sort of focusing on and highlighting how big a problem it is and so forth,

which people have done ad nauseum, we thought that it made sense to start looking at what are some of the potential ways of addressing this stuff. And so we have started talking to some scientists and technologists that are doing really interesting work to combat the effects of climate change. Starting this week with David Keith, he's a professor at Harvard, a professor of public policy and physics, who's working on what's, called solar geoengineering, which is this idea that you can actually spray particles into the stratosphere that would bounce back light and heat into space and therefore offset a big chunk of the global warming that we expect to see this century.

Yeah. And so you got your first installment, and I have to say you led with the big, wild idea, which is great. I mean, they're all big wild ideas, but this one is just particularly crazy. It's, I mean, I'm going to say it, and it's going to be wrong, but this is how I think of it's scientists shooting gold dust into the sky to block the sun, which is not exactly right, but it's so close to being right. It's actually really close. And in fact, you know, one of the particles that David Keith has talked about that would be probably the most effective would actually be diamond dust.

So gold and diamond, not too far off there. I mean, just a good night out. What about like the tears of babies? We're going to shoot baby tears into the sky. Wait, so tell, so you... That hasn't been evaluated. Obviously, everyone should be going to watch the thing, but walk us through it. Like, what is this idea?

Like, how would it actually work? And is it all practical? I mean, the thing is, it probably is practical because this is a rare instance where we've seen nature already doing this. Volcanoes, you know, massive volcanoes in the past spew just tens of millions of tons of sulfur dioxide into the sky. And when it happens, in the following... year, we have often seen a decline in temperature. So the question is just, well, there's two

questions. One is, can humans mimic it? And there's a pretty good sense that we could. It's not that technically, it's not that complicated. It's just, you know, get a plane that can fly into the stratosphere and ejects some stuff. The bigger question, diamonds. The bigger question is, what are the side effects? And what are the environmental side effects? And how can we kind of work around those things. Let me just, let me rewind and ask one question.

It might be crazy. Why couldn't we just try to make volcanoes explode? Because that would be spectacular. What you need to do is you need to get the Thetons to fly the DC-10s into the volcano.

That's actually why I love this series. Like the audacity of these ideas is terrific and then, you know, you confront them and ask why couldn't we do it? But like, you know, it's obviously not, I think, wise to compel volcanoes to erupt in massive eruption?

It depends on the volcano. And in the location around it, I think there are probably some negative downsides to it as well. So, come on. What are the things of burying of people? There's diamond dust, but there's also like other chemicals that we might just spray around. Like how do they decide why diamonds or why? What was there was like a sulfur acid or something? So the other two that have been looked at are alumina and soft.

sulfur dioxide. The issue with sulfur dioxide, which is what volcanoes actually spew, is that it also would, it eats away the ozone layer, and that's not a good thing. So that's why Dr. Keith started looking at some of these other things just to see how you could minimize some of these environmental downsides. Okay, so we could see what volcanoes did. And I know that there are some people that say that you could do a small scale study, but they, I don't, I, I, you need to explain that to me. But my sense is that you just kind of do it, hoping, it works and there's no takebacks. Like if we if we throw a whole bunch of sulfur dioxide in the atmosphere, a whole bunch of diamond dust in the atmosphere, the stratosphere, and we're like,

oh shit, that, oops, like we can't undo it, right? Well, we can't immediately undo it. I mean, one of the benefits to this approach is that it's not permanent in that, you know, this stuff eventually falls out of the stratosphere. So, but, but yeah, we're locked into that. Whatever change we've, we've, uh, whatever change occurs, we've locked in for a year or so. So we want to be able to live with that. Though, you know, some of the, the critics definitely say you're not really going to know what happens until you roll this out at full scale. But the scientists I talk to who have taken a hard look at this do think that you can do limited trials in limited areas and just, you know, you can learn important things. You maybe don't know exactly what's going to happen once it's

rolled out at full scale, but you can learn what some of the unknown unknowns would be in terms of secondary effects and so forth. So I think there is a lot to be learned still, but I do think that you're right. We're not, we may, you know, something, an experiment conducted at the scale of the planet and the complexity of the climate system, there are inevitably going to be some things that we just, we can't predict or control for. Would you even want an even distribution of this? Because if the planet keeps getting hotter, there's parts of the planet that are going to

really like that and and it's better for them and then there's parts of them of the planet's like wait that's too hot can you can you target the two hot parts yeah like just ohio and iowa but not california i mean i was i was asking about that and it sounded like our ability to localize this is is pretty limited that that natural events in the stratosphere are going to spread this stuff out pretty pretty broadly. So how would you do this? I mean, that's like the big question is we have this idea for, well, I don't. Dr. Keith, I believe, has an idea to spray some particles, including but not limited to diamonds in the sky. Yeah. You just, you literally just load them on a plane and fly real high and let him go. What's the, what's the mechanism? I think that's right. That's it. Yeah,

that's it. Is there like a heist? Like, I think there should be a heist first. Like, we should steal the diamonds and then grind them into dust. This is actually what people, some people were very scared about because this is not this complex technical thing, right? Any nation that can afford a plane that can fly into the stratosphere could pretty much go and try to do this themselves. And that's actually why a lot of the scientists are saying, listen, we have to do the studies and figure out how this is done safely and what the effects are because frankly, a nation

or even a wealthy individual, Peter Thiel, could go rogue at any moment and just try to do this on their own. Like, if Peter Thiel goes from I killed Gawker to I'm interested in fortifying my body with the blood of the young fact, to I'm spraying diamonds over Canada just to see what happens. Why not?

Yes, he would be even more well-loved figure. I mean, I would say, he's absolutely a bond villain. That's like a hard left turn to go from being a bond villain to like eco-mastermind. A lot of the bond villains are eco-masterines. Yeah, he, he, he

pulls off a massive he he goes to wherever you know the De Beers warehouse of diamonds that they stockpile he like walks in he's like I made PayPal dude you gotta you gotta stick with me on the whole bond okay I'm with you plot

like the Bonneville doesn't just go buy a bunch of stuff they have to go steal it so De Beers obviously stockpiles diamonds because they're an evil conspiracy that drives up the price of diamonds and convinces all that we need to put them on rings when we get married and so they've got a massive stockpile to keep diamonds So Peter Thiel goes and steals them and he puts them in his mountain fortress.

And then in order to mess with the nation states that are preventing him from creating his independent seesteading empire where nobody can bother him, he releases diamond dust into the air over the countries that he disagrees with. Cooling them massively. To cool them down. such that he can get the international permission from the UN, which he's co-opted to create his new C-setting nation state. I'm right.

And it's not going to be a problem. Can he say to those nations, chill out? Oh, my God. So, James. Welcome to the Vergecast, my friend. Thank you. That's been great. What's next?

Like, what's the takeaway? Is it, is there? motion behind this? Is there, not motion, is there momentum behind this? Is there energy or their government moves to be made? What happens here? Yes. I would say that, you know, I started covering this stuff a couple years ago when I was at the San Francisco Chronicle. And at the time, it seemed like an idea that had maybe just started emerging from the fringes of the scientific world. And I think now, I wouldn't say it's necessarily mainstream, but a lot of very serious, very well-credentialed scientists are taking a hard look at this. And we've just seen a senator

introduce a proposal to earmark some money in the energy department to start actually studying this sort of stuff. We saw the, I think the National Science Foundation came out with a report on this recently, again, saying that let's not rush into this or anything, but this is at least an area that we want to start researching more. So I do think that there is building momentum behind these ideas and not because anyone thinks that this is like a brilliant idea, but because it's very clear to everyone that climate change is going to be a disaster and we're not doing anything substantial to really address it yet. Peter Thiel, diamonds in the sky.

That's the move. All right, I got to put you on the spot. Should we do it? Do you think we should do it? My personal view of it is that we should study it. I don't think that, I think anyone who is sort of like, instinctually or reflexively dismissive of it doesn't fully appreciate the full extent of the dangers we face with climate change.

But I also think that we have a lot more to learn before we should go out and just start spraying stuff into the stratosphere and hoping that it all works well. All right. Well, I want the audience to stay tuned for more climate hackers. We got more coming up. There are more crazy ideas about how to fix this planet of ours. And James, we more heists. More heists.

Deere, I'm actually really sad. at no point during your tail did Dieter Bone put on a tuxedo and save the nations of Earth from a frozen fate. Anyway. That's Act. That's Act 3. You could save everybody. I don't have a truck.

More climate having come. James, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me on, guys. Graphic Stock is a subscription-based stock media company that gives you unlimited access to over 300,000 premium photos, illustrations, vectors and design elements that everyone can afford. You get great value with the unlimited download model. You get the largest unlimited download library of graphics, photos, vectors,

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for a free seven-day trial. Back. Graphics like free. Everyone likes free. Paul. Mm-hmm. Are you ever occurring segment on this show? What's it called? It has the same name every week. Yeah, yeah. It's called Let Me Touch You With Science. Why is it called that? You definitely can't call it that. Are you sure? Well, it's too late now. Way too late now. James again. Yeah, we've been doing it for weeks.

Yeah, everyone's so used to it. There's been no listener outcry whatsoever. All right, tell us, my God. Tell us what happened here. All right. So somebody's making this exoskeleton for VR that, like, imagine a creepy robot hand. Here, Neil, I just hold out your hand, all right? Hold out your head.

Why would you ask me you this after naming this segment what you named it? I want to touch you with science. Hold out your hand, all right? You know, I love you and I trust you. Now here comes the rule my hand. You could betray that trust. On top of your hand. First of all, it's an audio show.

Second of all, Paul and I are just holding hands in the most awkward way possible right now. This is a holding hands. I have my hand on top of your hand. Would you say that you're holding my hand? Would you say that this feels a little awkward? I think that you're holding my hand and I'm not holding your hand. Imagine I'm a robot. You're done.

And you're like trying to grab a rubber ducky in VR. And then I stop your fingers with my robot fingers, right? So you're trying to grab something and I grab your fingers back because I'm a creepy robot. So here is the problem with the demo Paul just tried to give me. Yeah. Is that his hand was atop my hand, but they weren't actually attached. So that when I moved my fingers, Paul had to individually grab each one of my fingers. Well, that's why we need robots.

That's why I need. So it's a glove. It's a, no, it's an exoskeleton. It's like a super. It's an exoskeleton. So when you go to grab something, there's resistance from the thing that you grab so your hand doesn't go through it like a ghost. And this thing mimics that resistance by holding your fingers back with its creepy robot hand on top of your hand. Yeah, it looks like a head crab from Half-Life.

This is an excellent episode of your show, 1,000 words. a podcast about describing images on the internet. Thank you. This is a secret way for him to record the podcast again. I see what's happening. Yeah. This is native content. This is one of those ideas that needs to happen, though.

But I always think about it in terms of you'll wear the glove and the glove, it'll make you feel like you're holding something as opposed to resisting you actively. Right. Because you want to feel like you're touching something, not like you can't move your fingers. Right. Yeah, but when you literally, when you're holding something, can't move your fingers because you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're you're, you're you're, you're you're you're, you're you're you're you're you're Your hand doesn't go through the thing you're holding. It's just like a reverse version of it. It's like you're being held back.

Instead of pressing against something, somebody's pulling back on you. And I'm saying that is not usually what holding something feels like. Well, we don't know. All right. Man, it's just, it's force vectors either way, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Force vectors.

What theater said? Probably should really warm up that ram before you do this sentiment, bro. I just think, The haptics in VR is going to be really important. I still tell people my favorite experience in VR, the thing that feels the most real, is holding the two Vive controllers. Because a lot of the games have a one-to-one representation of the Vive controllers that you see. And you can feel them, you can tap them together, and that somehow is the most immersive thing. There was that report this week that the HTC, the Vive, has the most active development community.

and I think a lot of it is because of the controllers. It's just so cool. Yeah, it's neat. Did I tell I got lost in the Vibe the other day? How did that happen? James Barham, our creative director, was like, let me show you these pictures. And he was like, trying to find him.

And I was like sitting in the cave with him. And I put on the vibe and I started playing. I told you we were going to talk about Play-Doh today. And I put on the, yes, I was in a cave. That's what happened. And I found myself. And I was in the controllers. I started playing whatever the first game that I could click on was.

I didn't even know what's called. And I was in a forest. And I was just, like, stuck behind a tree. And I was walking out of the room, like, crashing into shit. And I was just lost. I was like, I'm not leaving here until I solved this puzzle. And James is like, you are just walking in the chairs right now. That was my story.

Did you solve the puzzle? No. The end. VR's a failure. All right, lighting round. We got a few minutes left here. Let's do this thing. Reports, Amazon might launch a $5 per month music streaming service that only works in the Amazon Echo.

What do you think? Only on the echo? Yeah. Yeah, that's my question, too. I mean, why am I paying for, I think as someone put it from Theverge.com, why am I paying a fee to listen to music exclusively on one bad speaker? Perfect. A new theme for Spotify that makes it look more like RDO. Don't believe the lies.

Too soon. Don't believe the lies. You've got a lot of music stuff going on here. I've been trying to use Spotify because I want Spotify to, like, show me cool recommendations because everyone's like, oh, the weekly recommendations are so good. good. It's a fact. But they are. But so far, Spotify thinks I'm like half of who I was whenever I used Spotify last, which was like 2011 or something like that. And half now where I just listen to that one song, like that one dance song by Drake. Yeah, we are all just layers of our past selves, Paul. That's what I learned in the cave.

Frank Ocean Blonde, Apple Music Exclusive. First, records, very good. Very good. Please stop listening to this podcast. Why? Because you should be listening to Frank Ocean right now. Exclusively in Apple Music. Yeah. That's a free one, Eddie. Sorry, just doing fake ads. Who knows? Yeah, just type Verge into Apple Music and see what happens. It's nothing. But it could be something. Apple.

Whatever. Micah wrote a great piece about exclusives. And the idea that artists of this size don't need a label anymore. So the labels are now afraid of exclusives. Because you get paid by Apple. You don't need to get paid by Warner Brothers or whatever. I think that's like, that's an interesting moment. So what's funny about this is like it, he set it up really well.

It's going to come down to a fight between streaming services and labels. And if you look at Apple Music, their original, like, trademark, what they were and weren't supposed to do, they had that fight with the Beatles. And now they're like, they're literally going to. to be put in a position where they're, like, going to be actively destroying music labels, which is, like, the thing that they weren't supposed to do and they got the...

Well, they got the... They paid the Beatles. They're good. The Beatles are happy. I know. They're good. But it's funny, because what did a label used to do for you? They used to do many...

Primarily, they did manufacturing, distribution, and marketing. Right? So, yeah, so it sounds like... You don't need any of those things anymore. In Micah's thing is, like, because labels are becoming afraid of this, we might have fewer exclusives. But I could also...

see it going the other way where we have Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, exclusives, you know, and it's like you get a few shows in common, but for the most part to watch all things that exist, you need to subscribe to all of them. Don't you think that could happen for music? No, the thing about labels, like, you would, an artist would sign a label because you were just a person who was good at making music, and you had no idea how to manufacture LPs and put them on trucks and get them into stores, and you just don't need to do that anymore. Apple will take your, I don't know, your AIFF files from you, whatever you master on, and then they will distribute it through Apple Music on millions of phones.

They'll market it with their enormous reach, and they'll play it for people, and they're, you know, somewhat okay app. And like, if you're a label, that's like an existential threat. This was the first album on Apple Music where it's like, okay, I want this. Are Apple, ready? Adding this, download it to my phone, and it did. Hey! Every time I've done that before, it's like, okay, I know I downloaded that album,

so it's totally going to be on my phone now that I'm in the subway, and then it's like two tracks, and then like the next one's like... Apple Music is so confused with my stuff that I have two copies of virtually every track now, and I just don't know what to do with it. Anyway, Lightning Round continues. PlayStation Now, game streaming to PC. That seems very exciting to me. I would play PlayStation games on a PC.

I didn't know that service was going well at all. It's just going. Is it going well? Just doing a thing. Yep. One more. I mean, that's pretty much the lightning response to that. I just hate the latency.

Hey, I want to take advantage of having a science writer and video director here. Yeah. To talk about the PlayStation. James. This is a lightning round and we've had a verge cast debate. I need you to weigh in. Okay. I'm going to ask you two questions.

Can you see thunder? Teeter. God, damn it. Thunder is the sound of lightning. Can you see thunder? I'm leaning. toward an Eli's response there you go so yes or no so no you can see lightning but but then what can you hear lightning yes I get it I get it Dieter just got you good what do you mean

perplexing thunder is the sound of like one is the property of the other can you hear a clap yes can you see a clap yes right right a clap is the physical motion of the two hands hitting which you can see but you can also hear that in sound waves thunder is just hearing lightning right it's just the sound produced by lightning

I'm with you can you hear a troll Neelai I hate you I hate you so much because you just did it was great but you can't because you're always give that guy a race

because they always I'll give you a month off if you can see thunder I will buy you a car it'll be a crappy car But you go show me some thunder I can see thunder It's called lightning I hate you

All right last one Last last last one Wait wait wait wait We didn't talk though The Slim Oh two more Okay PS4 Slim leaks

Looks bad It looks terrible It looks so bad Yeah That's sorry It looks like 90 Sony In the worst way Leaks always look bad

Like the iPhone 4 leak Looked bad Yeah but that's because Gizmodo like Literally like shattered it In a million pieces And Pete on it Like

We found the iPhone It looks like It looks like it play some sort of proprietary audio codec. Yeah. No, it's like the worst of 90s Sony. And accepts memory sticks. I bet it does.

Memory sticks. Super bet it does. I got to, speaking of cameras. Hey-oh. Uh, I've been drinking. I don't know, man. Canon 5D Mark 4 announced 4K video, it's got Wi-Fi. According to this URL, it also has a price.

These days, these days, I'm really behind. Can I just say that was an SEO joke for my SEO friends. It does have a price. It's $3,500. That's not a high price for that camera. It's a lot of money. I just feel like the 5D Mark 2, which introduced this video digital solar, like really changed cinema. Change the world.

And I feel like I haven't really kept track of all the camera specs in the meantime. This has 4K at 24 or 30 frames per second. It's got like 60 frames per second, 1080p. And that seems great. It's got 120 frames per second, 720p. That's all exciting. And there's like new processors, I'm sure it's great. Yeah.

But I just, I'm just happy that this, a little gadget, Canon 5D Mark 2 changed. Literally changed the world. There's a whole thing about how it made the cost of HD video capture low and created a new generation of cinema. And for some reason, and has only made two sequels. Do they don't need to?

I mean, they've got a lot of other interesting cameras. If you look at, there's tons and tons and tons of verge photography that James shoots that's all shot in this Mark 2. Yeah. And it still looks beautiful. The Mark 2 is the reason that I moved into video. I mean, it was definitely this fundamental thing. But at this point, it's interesting that we're on to the four.

And all they're doing is catching up with what most other DSLR cameras and mirrorless cameras have had for years. So it's weird that they sort of, you know, created this. this area of, you know, shifting all these photojournalists into videographers, but it seems like they're getting their lunch eating at this point by Sony and mirrorless. Yeah, a lot of people I know that in video are really into the Sony. Would you say that's the Mark 2 of right now? What's that called?

I think so. Something? The AS72 or AS7. The AS7, AS72. That's the hot one. Two. Yep. That's what I just bought.

Oh, man. Throw down. And no buyer's remorse after seeing the Mark 4? No. No. I mean, why do I want to go back and have this big, heavy camera when, you know, the Sony has all of those things that Canon just finally got around to adding? Because it's not a video camera.

That's actually the thing, right? The Mark 2 was particularly remarkable because it was a still camera to which Canon added video capability. So you could then excuse it to yourself that I'm still getting a stick? Well, no, because then you were able to suddenly use this library of lenses. You were able to get the look. Now the Mark 4 is, you know, I think there's still a question for, like, existentially, is it a camera or is a video camera? And the video cameras have, like, caught up and surpassed it.

Like, we don't shoot on Mark 2s anymore. We shoot on C-100s, which Canon makes, using many of the same components remix to make a video camera. Way better low-light performance. Yeah. Something I know about the C-100. Perfect. James, for all the people who are mad at you for buying a Sony camera, where can they find you on Twitter? At J-Temple.

At J-Temple. If you are a Canon fanboy, once again, that is at J-Temple. Underscore Sony the best. Paul is at Future Paul. Deeter's at Backlon. I'm at Reckless. The Verges at Verge on virtually every platform. Just go to one of them.

indicate to that platform that we are your preferred provider of social content. Right. That would be very helpful. Please go to iTunes, an app that should be speedily killed, but continues to exist and distribute our podcasts. Go to that app, find the stars. It's gotten a little bit better. Choose the maximum amount of stars.

Loop button always works for me now. And then submit that amount of stars to Apple, Apple Incorporated. Can you also heart in the podcast zone? You can star it, but can you heart it? The fact that it has stars and hearts. That was a great piece. I was only my favorite pieces that we ever written. Anyway, do that.

And then while you're in iTunes, while you're subjecting yourself to that experience, check out everything else. Kid up What's Tech, Mr. Christopher Plant, that hits on Tuesdays. Control Walt, delete, has been off for two weeks. It's back next week. Me and Walt, hanging, talking, rapping, jamming.

Virg ESP with Emily and Liz. It's on Fridays. They're going strong. and you can, you know, just generally hang with the verge wherever fine internet is served. That's it. We'll be back next week. Rock and roll. Paul. Paul.