The Vergecast - Hype's out for summer

Episode Date: July 24, 2015

What started as a chill summer situation becomes very heated this week. Nilay, Dieter, Sam, and Special British Guest Tom Warren discuss Windows 10, Apple Music, an alleged new Moto X, and The Beach Boys. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's the summer. It's warm outside. It's actually disgustingly hot outside in New York City. Yeah. It's a chill week. Chill summer, chill July at theverge.com. Yeah. This is the Vergecast.

We're going to listen to this. We're going to listen to Beach Boys, the whole show. That's right. We're not going to do that. Okay. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Vergecast. The flagship podcast to Theverge.com.

One of many. Well, that's the flagship. You can't have many flagships. No, one of many shows. It's the one and only. All right. Well, that, as always, was a disaster. The signature move of the flagship podcast of Theverge.com is to begin with just utter, utter chaos.

But anyway, we're here. We're going to talk about technology. We're going to talk about culture. Really, just those things. Yeah. But I have some exciting news. The exciting news is not that I am Neil Lepael, although I, every day wake up and end excited by that news, as one might be.

But that, that, what you heard in your ears, is the exciting news. I have returned. What is that? Havoc on the nation. Well, Tom Warren is here, creepy. Actually, I nearly wreaked havoc flying in. Really? What did you do?

To the station? Because, to this nation. Oh, okay. Because I had one of those, you know, those interviews you never think you're going to happen when you go to the customs, I had one. Oh. When you're like, I'm sorry, sir, I brought these English drugs with me. Did you use your fake American accent to get through it?

Yeah, it worked perfectly. What was your interview? What would they ask you? They thought that I needed a particular visa and I didn't. And I tried to explain it. And they were like, no, go to the room. Yeah. Wait, that was your interview was somebody telling you to go to a room?

No, the guy at the gate was like, I was like, usually people who are at this gate know what they're doing. And then that was it. He marched me off after that. So I had an interview and they realized they didn't need a visa and then sent me on my way. Very nice. But give me a sample question from this interview. it wasn't really an interview because it was like I was like I work in London I'm paid in London I don't get paid in America and they're like oh well why are you here and I was like I don't know and then they looked up

I raised some rabble and then they googled you and you're like you're here to report on Microsoft and you're like yes I am I'm like my mate bill you can give a call yeah yeah well Tom is I will say this Tom is in fact for you government types out there here to report on Microsoft it'd be amazing if halfway through this show like customs agents burst through the door. Yeah. And like, you're working. You're working right now.

And Delo is paying me. Dollar bills. They're waiting for me to hand you a stack of dollar bills. And then they can arrest you. Anyway, Tom is here. Dieter's here. Hello. Hello.

In the hype set, type seat. He has a new set, is what I'm trying to say. In the hype seat, uh, Sam the bone, chefer. Wait, no, that's Deter's like, I was going to say Sam the man, but that's boring. Sam, the bone?

But you can't, because Deter's got the, well, you can't just take it. We could chair the bone. No. You can't just take a man's last interview. This is the worst intro of this show that has ever been recorded. Behind Sam is a set of lockers, and it says hype's out for summer. It is.

Chill summer. Yeah. I've got to say, it's great. We've been having a very chill, very relaxed, very successful summer so far. So what we used to do with those lockers at school? Stuff. Stuff. Stuffed them with fish.

What? On your last day at school, so then when the kids come in the new term, smelly lockers. Wow. Okay. that's weird that's a bridge it's a bridge let's get into the news because the summer's been chill yeah relaxed but

it's about to heat up it's about to stop dida wrote a post this week that's like the like action is coming to tech news again we're gonna have a classic I think Vergecast we're gonna deep into my Apple I'm gonna say Windows is bad you guys are gonna send me emails

uh then we're gonna talk about the web the state of the web our emotions about the web this is a verge cast for the hardest core verge cast fans. Yeah, this is real. This is the stuff. So we should get into it.

So tech news is about to heat up in a big way. So next week, Tech news is about to heat up in a big way. Right as I go on vacation, literally to Africa, where I will have no access to anything. Which is cool, because I'm excited about relaxing.

Chill summer. But Tech News next week gets real big, right? So Windows 10 is happening the 29th at midnight. Yes. Motorola is having an event on the 28th. At like 10, 9 or 10 Eastern? In the morning.

In the morning. So Motorola morning. Then there's a mystery VIP event for Nokia. Yes. That would be amazing. The river is VR stuff. What if Nokia puts like a Windows 10 phone? Oh, my God.

No, that's different. This is Nokia technology. Oh, I see. Right, which is different from whatever the rebranding Nokia. Future phones. Double Elop. It's still my dream. Double Elop is my dream.

If Stephen Elop can go back to Nokia, ruin it again and then sell it to Microsoft again. Triple Eelop in the sky. No, the triple, like, he could do it. He could do it, but you've got to, you've got to achieve. That's the thing about doing things three times. There's that famous saying. That's the thing about doing things three times. The second time is the hardest.

Right? The first one, you're like, I did it. Oh, you're saying. And the third time, you're like, I'm chasing history. And then the second time, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, you're just, thinking about Nokia. And that's the second time.

It would be truly amazing. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, right there's, moving on. This shows, uh, I'd like to apologize to everyone. So, let's talk about what I said. Tom, let's begin. So you're running it, you've got an XPS 13. I have it here, yeah, with amazing stickers, running a preview building.

Oh, yeah. The Ninja Cat is invading. Yeah, this is the RTM or not RTM, whatever you want to call it, RTM. So the final bits. Yeah, it's the one that was the last Windows Insider build that we're pretty sure is going to be the build, right? Yeah, this is the build, so. Yeah, so it's happening. It's happening.

Which feels kind of weird. It's like, because it feels like it's been happening for months. Right. It's a bit of a weird launch. But it's a launch and it's kind of not. And there's not going to be like a launch event. They're not going to have like a keynote or anything, right. They're just going to be like, yeah, right, go do it.

Click the button. And they'll just like flip the button on the server. Yeah. The massive red buttons. Yeah. Yeah. And you can download it. Yeah.

Or mostly, most people will just get it for free. Yeah. So, Windows 7 and Windows 8 uses. So here's the thing. Windows 7 and Windows 8 get it free. People could pre-register and like reserve their slot in line. So we don't really know who's going to get it on the Wednesday. Because they're rolling it out slowly.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like everyone gets it. Not. everyone can go get it. It depends whether your device. It's like all the drivers are up to date and it's ready for it. So it could be millions. It could be thousands. It could be, who knows? Yeah. We'll see. It's a bit of weird launch all around. But if you want it, you can just have it, right? Or you don't know. Can I go to Best Buy and buy it? That's another thing. I'm not sure that

there will be retail boxes. Right. Wednesday. Crazy. Because all the Amazon listings are for August. Yeah. Well, and the other crazy thing is, you know, Tom's written that this is the last Windows. And so, like, it's like, all right, here it is. Go get it. Some of you. And, like, we're just going to keep updating it over and over again all the time from now on. Yeah, I'm not really sure how that kind of works.

Yeah. Well, do we, do we, because there used to, what was, like, update Wednesday? A patch Tuesday. Patch Tuesday. There we go. That's for the security fixes. Right. I think that's still going to continue.

Right, right. But then alongside that, there'll be, like, feature updates and stuff like that. But I don't think it's to be like, in six months' time, the start menu, suddenly going to look drastically different on anything like that. It's going to be the building apps and stuff like that. What's the first thing? When you install Windows and what's the first thing to play with? Probably Cortana, I guess, like to play with, yeah, in the start menu.

I mean, that's what they're going, even in the ads. There's that app with the babies. And it's like pictures of cute babies and then like slow panes over the Cortana interface. Cortana's good. Yeah, no, Cortana's good. I don't know that I use it. I use it for stuff. But this is all I use theory for.

It's like reminders and stuff like it's really, you can just, you know, shout. Remind me when I get to wherever. If I were to shout, hey Cortana, does your... No, because he's trained to my voice. Really? Clever. Yeah. It knows that you're British.

When you do an American accent, is it? No. Hey, Cortana. That's not an American accent. You're like lost in Texas somewhere. Texas is America. I know, but it's... Oh my God, you're such an elitist.

Such a New Jersey elitist. I love Austin, but... Wow. I mean, that's the, by the way, the ultimate elitist thing to say about Texas. The one liberal city in... That's cool. The rest of it sucks. So many angry people saying, oh, Texas is great.

And those people have guns. Yeah, I know. They really do. I'm in New York. They love them. Presumably safe. Someone in Texas has a sniper rifle to get you. Or a drone.

They probably have a drone. With a gun. With a gun. Does be an investigated. Do you guys see the video of the drone picking up the other? I drowned today? Yes, that was amazing. It was on the front page of Reddit.

It was on the front page of Reddit. Well, what is on the front page of Reddit? Besides terrible misogyny. For Sam. Sam just looked pained. My front page is curated pretty well. Yeah? Yeah.

Because you subscribe to subreddits. Yes. But don't you want to know what like the generic Reddit looks like? Well, then you hit Command Shift N when you're in Chrome and you get incognito window and you go to Reddit. com and you can see. Wow. You got Incagito burn. You got Chrome keyboard burned.

All right. So here's the thing. So you've been using it. Obviously can't review it until it's release, but you've got the bits. Deeter, you've got it too. Yeah. People have it all. I've got it on an XPS 13.

What's the, uh, and it feels like the Xbox 13 is the Windows 10. I think so. I mean, it's still. Not the surface. It's definitely not the surface. That's a problem. No. That's a problem.

That's a problem. probably a problem. The Surface... It's such a troll. I like it. I'm concerned. I have concerns. Literally every Vergecast,

I say this, where is Microsoft's hardware? They won't do it because of OEMs, right? They don't do. It's called the Surface. Surfice Pro 3. Yeah, but you being like it's a problem. And Surface 3.

I mean, there's XPS 13 is like brand new. It's like a beautiful piece of hardware. It's actually a laptop. It's closest to the MacBook that we've ever had. It's like, of course that's it has a bonkers good screen. Yeah. That's like just, Sam, you want to be such a troll.

I just, I'm waiting. That's like walking into somebody eating like a delicious ice cream coming, being like, hmm, diabetes. You know, it's like, just let them enjoy the ice cream for one minute of their damn lives. It's a little bit different because Microsoft is making this operating system. And they're like, you know what, Dell, you can have the glory of the best. Well, they're not, it's not that they're letting them have the glory. It's that they're off cycle for their next revision of the surface. I think it's more like they don't make a laptop.

Right. The service pro free is a tablet. Yeah. Come laptop. I was, nobody knows what the surface. Trip 3 is. What is this thing? You know,

I've realized that I would use this mediocre if I could stand up with it and walk away with it in less than 10 seconds. But you can't just pick it up and walk away with it. Like with the last time, like, chit, poke.

Yeah, it starts with a lot of tunnel. Yeah. And then you're gone. This is a real pinnacle of audio effects. Right? For our podcast listeners.

Well, I was making out these hand motions and I realized that the audio listeners wouldn't know what I was doing. So I... we're stopped we're done you just go do the click noise nope

god somewhere I can see it's I can feel John's pain he's like not even wearing headphones anymore he's just in the control room we just looking mad you know it's funny in the control room the lights turn red when Sean is angry he has like the Phillips

hue wearable flaked up his wrist his Apple watch if this that his heart rate starts rising the room turns red. That would actually be kind of cool. Would it be cool? That would be an actual use for the Apple Watch?

Oh, wow. I just want to talk about this for a second. I crack my Apple Watch. I'm not wearing it anymore. I don't care for it anymore. Wow. What? I fell out of...

We should talk about it. I fell out of... We should add those to the mix. I realize now that my watch is cracked and like I don't wear it anymore. It's been like two days also. The only thing I use it for is to look at the time, see the weather, and then like check who's texting me. that's literally it.

Yeah, that's what, that's all the smart watches ever before. It's just sad. It's a little bit sad. I'm going to install OS2 when it comes out

and like deal with the crack screen. But other than that, I really, like, yes, you're right. Neil, you were right from the beginning and I'm just,

I'm the one who told you that you were going to do this. Yeah. All right. Let's, let's come back. Let's finish Microsoft. We'll finish Microsoft.

I think everybody knows that if you want to harsh the Apple Watch I'm your guy. So we can do that in a minute. But let's finish Microsoft. So they're putting it out. It's the X-PACE 13 is the one.

I would say this, and this goes to kind of the surface point. Windows 10th me the whole time has felt like they're just playing to desktops. Right? They're telling desktop users how good it's going to be, how good the experience is going to be. They have all of these ways to develop apps for desktop.

And all of that, and Nadella has now admitted, openly that the reason they're doing that is they want to increase the install base of Windows 10 because it's also going to run on the phones. You can get tons of apps on the desktop on Windows 10. Then they can start selling the phones and they'll have tons of apps on the phone. That sounds like Windows 8. That was their problems with Windows 8. It was like, let's put this massive tiled interface in front of everyone. So is Mike, is my, the plan for Windows 10 is just like the plan for Windows 8,

except that Windows 10 doesn't suck. Is that like? I think so. Okay. But I can't see that this is going to have any effect on the app situation at all, because I can't see that people will make universal apps for any particular. First of all, the recent news with them downscaling the phone stuff anyway. It's like, why do I need my app to run on the phone? Because it's such a small market.

But if you make a universal app, you get one of those sweet start tiles right in the start menu. Yeah, there's lots of benefits to it. But the biggest drawback for a developer is I have millions of people that are still running at XP, but more so still running Windows 7. Why don't I just create a desktop app that works on that and Windows 8 and Windows 10? Which is why they're giving it away for free. Because they're like, look, everybody's on Windows 10 now. That's the key reason they're giving it away for free because they want to encourage that development.

Right. So I wrote all, all these things are related. But I wrote a long thing earlier this week about my just general disappointment with the state of the mobile web. Yeah. And part of that is, I think the web on desktops is still quite good. I mean, I look at the stuff I use on my computer every day. We probably talked about this a little bit, but I basically don't use apps. Yeah.

Right, I use the Twitter app. I use Mailplane, which is basically a Twitter app. Yeah, he's on your Mac? Yeah, I don't know why. You're just there. Dude. It's fine. The official Twitter app.

The official Twitter app. It's fine. It's fine. I would say it's great. I don't think it's great. And your homepage and your browser is MySpace.com. Yes. Cool.

The official Twitter app, here's the thing about the official Twitter app. It's just not good enough for me to not be bothered by Twitter. If it was any better, I would just get lost inside of Twitter all the time. I think the official app is great. It's fine.

It doesn't do anything to the website, the Twitter web experience, and this goes to my point, the Twitter web experience is better on the desktop than Twitter's Mac app. Yeah. Leaps and bounds. The Twitter for Mac app is a skeleton.

Right. And then tweet to do it. is also like, I use tweet tech exclusively. And I think a lot of us do here too. Right. But there's no... I like the columns. That's the main thing.

Yeah. And there's no tweet tech for mobile. It would be impossible. There used to be. Really? Yeah. Back in the day. What did it do?

The same thing, but you could like swipe between columns really easily and you can like set up notes. Yeah, it was great. It was like super cool. I liked it a lot. I totally miss this. Wait, let me get to my point. So I use this app.

That's one of the ones I use. And I use it specifically because it's not as You use it because it's a website. Yeah, I use it because it's a little bit crappy. Then right now I'm running

Spotify. I quit Skype because we're on the show but Skype is usually open and that's it. I have an RSS reader open. That's it. Right?

And it's because all of the other things I do are on the web in websites. And I think the one that I keep coming back to, the one app you definitely need on a phone is Facebook.

You gotta have a Facebook app. But Facebook has never, and you have to. But you don't need it on a desktop. You don't need it. No. You don't need it on desktop because the Facebook website's really good. Facebook website on mobile works well too.

Well, right, but I'm saying you can't launch a mobile platform. And there is, I know that there is one on Windows. Yeah. But it's because you have to. Yeah, but lest you all forget that there was no official Twitter app, there was no official. No, no, but my point is, my point is you don't, like, the need for apps on the desktop is somewhat obviated by the fact that the browsers are quite good. Yes. And on top of it, so like Facebook has no, even though Microsoft 2 knows Windows 10 stuff, I've got to have a billion users.

They also built a great new browser. Yeah. Right? And I just don't see why having all of those people use Windows 10 is going to make Microsoft into itself. We should make a killer Facebook app for the Windows desktop that will then be a killer. And a lot of these apps that are like cross-platform on Mac and the PC are just Chromium-based data, like wrapped up web apps that are based on Chromeium. So that's the way that people are doing the cross platform. My mail client.

I use a Malplane. That's basically a Safari instance. Slack is chromium on Windows. Just packaged up and the same on Mac. So Eli, what's the point you're making here? My point, it seems very nice. I haven't played with it nearly as much as Tom and Dieter have. It seems great.

I mean, I have played with it. It seems much better than eight. It feels more cohesive. Somebody clearly owns it as a product. Saying it's way better than eight, let's just be super clear. It's not particularly hard.

saying it's way better than eight is like not fair because that's mean it's not hard to do it's not hard to do yeah yeah yeah i mean i like i like the direction they're taking i think with with windows 10 is there's a work in progress there's that um i don't think this was supposed to launch it to october but really i think it's been shifted up why marketing and stuff to get to get people to upgrade back to school to get back to school you got up to stuff out before school so i think they've kind of rushed out knowing that and then in the background they're preparing you know, the polish for October. Do you think Microsoft still believes in tablets?

I think... First of all, does anyone still believe in tablets? No, they did. They made the tablet mode where it's the same thing and the task bar changes and everything switches to touch mode and whatever. But it's interesting that there is like

two worlds, so it was Windows 8 where it's just basically all about the tablet. And now it's kind of gone back to being all about the desktop, but still the tablet stuff is still there. But it's interesting that like changing mentality. But that's because the whole industry is thinking the iPad was going to be laptop sales and it turned out that it didn't

quite achieve that. The laptop sales aren't great. No, but I mean it didn't take over that segment. Although Apple just did earnings and the Mac sales are great. Yeah, the Mac sales are up, what, 9%? Yeah, but I think Windows 10 is like what will get people to buy a new laptop. Maybe, yeah.

You think just maybe? I think the problem, and it's a problem with the iPad as well is that the hardware is so good now that you don't actually need to upgrade it. Yeah. And I think that's the same with laptops as well. I think we're seeing part of that is not necessarily reaction to the actual OS and the software and stuff. It's just that laptops are good.

They will last for years now. Whereas back in 2001 you bought a laptop and it wouldn't last until now. And I think you see that with the iPad. A lot of people are still using older iPads. I check Windows 10. 10. Troll Shephyr today. There's a lot of excited human beings

about Windows 10. Yeah. Oh, okay. A classic. A true proper hype check. A proper hype check. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what that is. It's like we're reaching peak hype right now. And it's, yeah, it's a joke on 10 and Windows 10, sure. But like, I am even compelled to use Windows again. Yeah, I think it looks great.

I've stopped using my MacBook. Yeah. That's a big move for Tom Warren. Is there a Slack test? I just don't really use it. By the way, Tom Warren, if you, the listeners don't know it. Tom Warren, best Microsoft word on the game, has been using almost exclusively max this whole time.

Maybe, yeah. Like, max with Windows on them, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I just stopped using my MacBook because he's just like, oh, this is actually good now so I can use it. Right. You have all the apps

you need on there, on the desktop? Yeah. The only stuff I don't have is like for a live blog stuff. Tweetac? Yeah. Same.

You're going to do it, man. You're going to switch to windows. I literally grew up using Windows. 95, 98, Emmy, XP. They were great. And then I got a Mac in 2008

with Snow Leopard and I was like, damn, this is awesome. Window management is, you know, it's expose or whatever it's called, no mission control.

Yeah. I mean. Snaps. Snap in the windows. Yeah. There's a lot of, there's a lot of compelling reasons. And,

and if, if Snapchat decides it wants to make a Windows phone app, then it will be available on the desktop as well. But why? Why? Oh my God. Imagine a Snapchat app. See,

Sam's done, right? Oh, the hype is back in. I mean, look at it. Look at that face. Is that impossible? Like, can you, can you dream and you can have Snapchat on the desk? You can use like an Android. You just load, yeah, loading in Chrome.

Yeah. And it will use the camera and the microphone properly. Oh, I don't know about it. Everyone stop. What do you load in Chrome? You could just run literally the APKs here, Android files. Yeah. Fair.

Most of them run okay. Some of them don't. Yeah. Sam. Sam's like texting all of his friends. All right. So we got it. There's a few more Microsoft things to get through, and then we should move on.

So, Panos Panos Penne got promoted from who is that? Whatever he ran surface. He runs Surface at the moment. Now he runs the premium device category. So essentially phones and, you know, like that. Does he have mice and keyboards? Perhaps. You think that he's going to be, you think of Panos Panais?

He's like that guy. I like him too. Like when he's on stage, he's just like so excited, he's almost angry. He's not like mean or aggressive, but he's just like so. into what he's talking about, you're like, whoa, man, just, it's cool. I think it's all, it's a show for him, isn't it? Shownorship.

Yeah. But even in a meeting, he's like, he's a cool dude, you know? He's real. He's real in a way that Microsoft isn't always real. Yeah. You know he won't stick to the marketing line or any of that bullshit. He'll like, tell it how it is. Yeah. And he's like, the way it is, is we can't make a laptop because it'll

piss off Dell. So here's this keyboard thing. They make so many keyboard things. They made the little waterproof foldy one. Do you see Lauren Goods? Yeah. It's good. Excellent.

Excellent. Yeah. So he's taken over the phone stuff, which is kind of interesting because, you know, surface phone. Yeah. I think I think that's where they're going. Like they can have, right.

I mean, they're going to shut down Nokia. They keep getting rid of it. They're clearly just going to make a phone. Man, if they make a surface phone and they don't make a surface laptop, I will be very angry. Because they have the branding. Sam alone. They screwed up Metro.

they had that. They had it. They screwed up Spartan. They have Surface. It's like people know what the surface is. The last one Vergecast I asked if people legitimately use Surface and I got like 10 emails. I forward some to the Tom. And if they make a Surface phone and they don't do the laptop, I'm just going to be confused and really just sad for Microsoft.

They should just make a proper two and one, right, where you peel off the thing. It's called the Surface. No, but with like a proper keyboard base. No one wants. So the keyboard pace would have enough. So it's actually a laptop. And then you... I've never seen a hinge in one of those proper two and once.

The other bust. Yeah, they're bust. Yeah. B4Bus hybrid laptops bust. Bfer bust. Bifur busting your own calling your own Bifur Bust. High. Okay.

That's a different show. What's happening? So yeah, isn't the crumbullet flip one of those hinges? That flips all the way around. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the crumbulls. No, flipping all the way around.

is no good. I don't understand why the Chromebook flips all the way around. Because like if you want the screen in front of you just like this. Who wants that?

You put like the keyboard back there. I guess. It's so dumb. I don't know. I feel like we went to this. Wait, we're heading eventually

like someone will make a decent two in one. No, they won't. It's been like trying for five years now. Yeah, they've been trying since the iPad came out.

Isn't the Lenovo yoga that's the closest to get? Two or three good. That's like as close. does he get to good. Yeah. And I think the yoga is one of those laptops. It's like a laptop to buy.

Right now it's like the yoga, the XPS 13. Surface Pro 3. Because on the list. There's one HP one that looks sick that we just posted. It looks dope. It looks dope. That one looks, yeah, that's cool. But that's like the list.

We should do that post. What laptops to buy. Yeah. And it's just four laptops. And at the bottom it's a picture of Joanna. He's holding a MacBook air and spy. You got the HP specter as well. that's not too.

Although I just don't really like the huge trackpad on it. You don't like a big trackpad? Who doesn't like a big trackpad? How is the track pad on Windows 10, Tom? Huh? How is the trackpad on Windows 10? Well, it depends what harder you've got. That's the problem.

The one you're using right now. So this is okay, but sometimes it goes weird. I think, I don't know whether it's Chrome or Windows 10. Because in Windows 10 apps, it's fine. I've never had it go crazy. But in Chrome, like, sometimes the scrolling, it's just weird. But I think that's Chrome. because everything bad about browsing a web

on Windows is free Chrome. How's Edge? Yeah. Edge, by the way, for Microsoft, new browsers called Edge. They changed it from Spartan to Edge. Good job. I think more is that...

Man, fine. Whatever just happened. Sam just wants a Surface laptop with Microsoft Spartan and Snapchat. And Snapchat. He's good. Spartan's a terrible name for browser.

Spartan's a really bad name for browser. Also, they've got to keep the E. Why is it? But there's like 10 billion people in the world who think the E is the web. Yeah. Yeah, and you know what? It's time for something new. No, but that's just you're addicted to new things.

That's why you're like on the verge cats and read the verge. No, I'm a creature of habit for sure. Those 10 billion people in the world that... I so disagree with you. I'm definitely a creature of habit. All right. But those 10 billion people in the world are the same people that go on... Also, there's 7 billion people in the world, but cool.

That's, I wasn't making a factual claim. I have a number of people who'd recognize, like, do you see that over there? Oh my God. Let me introduce you to our sponsors, Zero. The rails are over there. We're over here. Let me introduce you to our sponsor, Zero.

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Again, sign up for that free 30-day trial today at zero.com slash podcast. Here's the thing about having ads on the show. They're great because we can just stop conversations. They're the best. I would like to thank Zero for bringing that stupid conversation to a definitive end.

I have one more question about Windows 10. Just one more. Just like how? Can Discordana? Ask Cortana how many people there are. are in the world. Hey, Cortana. How many people are there in the world?

It's given me a big result. How many people are there in the world? 7.2 billion. Checking my sources. It's Siri. It looks like the population of the world is about 7.13 billion people. Ooh, big argument between Siri and Cortana. But that's the same data, though, probably.

How is it same day? What do you think of Cortana? I really couldn't say. Ooh. That's catty. Wow. Okay. Ask what she thinks of Google now.

What do you think of Google now? I'm sorry, Dieter. I'm afraid I can't answer that. What do you think of Alexa? I'm sorry. Dieter. I'm afraid I can't answer that. Man.

Sir, ice cold. Wait, this else called Tuna what she thinks of Siri. What do you think about Siri? Yeah. She doesn't like talking about it. She's not gossip. She's just like a regular

assistant, what does Cortana say? What do you think of the Twitter fight between Nikki Minaj and Taylor Swift? Super done with this. John, do we have another ad? Can I turn this moment into money in any way possible?

How high, how big? How big is Microsoft going with this launch? Are we going to see ads plash across the planet? Are we going to, who they hire for Windows 95? What was like the... It was the Rolling Stone.

Start me up. Like, are they going to go, like, massive? And friends as well, don't forget. Yeah, and friends, yeah. Or they're going to be like, here it is, guys, go get it. Because they need everybody on it to, like, succeed in their plans to, like, you know, win it all.

I think we're going to see a lot of advertising, but I think we're going to see more in October, I think, ready for the holidays. Right. Well, that's after bad school. Oh, yeah, well. Bad school September. You mean for that, it's fine. I mean for, yeah, for the holidays.

Tom, how many installs by the end of the year? Oof. Oof. Oof. No, that's a good question, that is. Got to be higher than that. It's got to be, yeah.

Oh, yeah. 10 million by the end of the year? Their target's like 1.5 billion. Not by the end of the year, but that's billion. One billion, right, right.

But in three years, which is, one seventh of the world's population. You're reverse trolling now. Although by the time that they get it done, it might be one. The population's going to be, yeah,

population will be like nine billion. But that's not like a crazy target. Like, there's 300 million roughly PCs that ship every year. Right. In three years. There's 300 million PCs that ship,

every year. Yeah. Yeah. Who is, I guess businesses, right? Yeah, business is also regular people.

Human beings. Human beings who don't want to spend a thousand bucks on a MacBook. Do you know anybody is a PC day to day in your life? Not really. Wow. That's crazy. Not really,

no. Wow. That's like really crazy. Do you know anybody who has a job? Oh, I mean, for a job, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But you don't anybody like bought a PC recently? No. All of your friends have Macs. Laptops, Max. Yeah. Oh, man.

I feel like this would be an excellent question asked Nicola as well. Yeah. Yeah, much better question. I mean, I'm a tech nerd, right? So they all, my friends have taste. No, my friends are nerds. It's what I'm saying. Lots of nerds have PCs. They listen to this show. You're going to get so much email. It's Sam at theverge.com. You can email him to say hello. I can email him to say a lot. Especially if you own a PC email Sam right now. Yeah, actually, yeah. If you're listening to this Vergecast and you are, you own a PC or the future if you're listening to this and you have a PC. Email me, Sam at the verge.

Sam's getting email. No, this is a group threat I have about Supreme Shoes with my friends. Ask them if they have a PC. All right, we got to move on. The whole point of reading the ad is to move on. We're like minutes later we have a movie. What are you talking about Apple music?

No, well, we should talk about the earnings. We can't help but talk about the watch. The watch was revealed obliquely in the earnings. And Dieter wrote a really good piece. Do you want to know the backstay of that piece? You said, do a thing, and Dieter was like, and it was done. Yes. Deeter, my content robot then took over.

No, it was just like, okay, so Apple learnings, do you want to, Deeter do the highlights? Because you were actually on the call. Yeah, they had a record quarter, but they analysts were hoping they'd hit, they'd sell 50 million iPhones. And they sold, I don't know, 47 million or something. And so everybody was like, oh, my God. And they lost like $60 million in market. cap or something in like a second. And so like Wall Street was very unhappy, but I don't care.

Like I almost don't even know what to say about like the general like financial stuff with Apple anymore because it's just the numbers are so big that it's always like, yeah, they're company. They've got like 200 billion dollars in cash, 90% of it's offshore. Like what do you even do with that? They're just, they're so big. I think Wall Street reacts in that way because the switch in like from from the, you, year on year, it's 64%, 65% of iPhone is their revenue, whereas it's 50 odd percent last year.

And that's not like a good way to be going, especially when you introduce this stuff like the watch and the iPad. You got to give the watch a little bit. So here's the watch they... But that's only because the iPhone sales have got crazy huge. Right. So it's swamping their revenue. Right.

So the watch, they very explicitly say they don't tell you how many they sold. They don't tell how much money they're ranking off of it. all in the other category. And so everybody looked at the other category, which includes iPods and also like accessories and said, oh, well, it looks like, you know, the difference here is about $952 million. So that's about how much you made on the Apple Watch. And both the CFO and Tim Cook are like, no, no, no, no, no, no. All those other things dropped.

And so it's well over that amount. So even, you know, saying it's a billion dollar business could be more. There's an estimate that was like $1.4 billion. Who knows? Where did that estimate come from? There's year over year And quarter over quarter difference And then you kind of just play with those numbers

Until you find something that makes you feel good Big guesstimate Well so but the thing about the year over year And I was I contributed to this I just purchased a pair of beats headphones Oh you're the model The studios Because they're noise cancelling

Yeah I'm about to go on a long plane ride You're a high piece How long is your plane ride? You're a literal hypebeats It's 18 hours Oh my God You literally bought beats

You are Neal I asked, I asked Chris Sigler, my resident headphone expert. I didn't want to buy the Bose ones. I'm opposed to buying Bose ones. Look, Sam, now that Apple owns beats, you should be all aboard. I almost bought the quiet comfort. I almost bought the Bose ones, but I think the Bose ones look a little janky.

You want it sound cance. Noise cancelling headphones and you bought beats. Yeah, about the studio beats that have noise canceling. Okay. But we'll see. Maybe they're going to suck. They might suck, but I just bought. Would you buy a Best boy?

Yes. Oh, my. I bought everything. I bought them from Amazon. Like literally my brain is like, I should have something. And somewhere a server in Amazon's network is like, I'm already sending it to you. You also bought a sweet camera for your trip. I bought an RX10.

I bought an RX10. So I bought some gear. What are you going to buy from the Best Buy airport kiosk? I'm going to buy an M-Py iPod. Why do I have this? By the way, iPod Classic with the Lightning Connector is a thing that I want right now. Think about it. I want a big ass hard drive with music on it.

It's like, this is my music. music. 128 gigabyte. iPod touch or your fucking iPhone. You don't understand. I want the wheel. I want the whole thing. I want the whole experience.

It's like you and yourself in like this world that exists. He's set in his ways. You see. No, I've been in the new world. I would like to go back to the, this is, it's like it's the ancient Greece of music listening.

And that's the thing about trying to go back to the old, the old world. The old world. The old world and the old world of Apple music. Don't get along. together. It just sounds like you're on the loss

time. All right, we should just want to talk about Apple. All right. So, though, we don't know how many,

we don't know how many Apple watches were sold. Estimates range from like under three and three million. I didn't say the thing. So the revenue,

the reason I was talking about beats headphones. Yeah. Is last year Apple didn't own beats. Right. Beets is a billion dollar business.

Right. Right. So every quarter that you've got to factor in another quarter billion dollars. Wait, did they mention Bits in their own,

or in the earnings. No, it's all lumped with other. Lumpton. Other is the big mystery. Got it. Right.

So in other is the iPod, is beats, is Apple TV, is like all this stuff. Yeah. The, the joke that I put in my article that I, full disclosure, stole from my fiance, was that the most valuable thing about the iPod to Apple's business right now is it hides the actual revenue numbers for the Apple Watch. Right. I mean, so it's weird. So Apple is making it seem like inside of this number, the watch is a huge success.

Yep. But then there's people, lots of people I know. Actual human beings are like, I'm not wearing it anymore. So they sold a bunch, but what they need to do to sell even more is convince people that it's useful. And if people who bought it aren't convinced, then they're not going to be able to accelerate that curve the way that they did with the iPhone and the iPad and all these other products. Yeah, the story that Apple tells you is that their best sales month so far was June when

they finally got enough inventory. and so they're making the claim that sales are accelerating and that they're going to accelerate even more and they're claiming it's going to be like the the hottest thing in the holiday. But that's just Apple recording their sales in June because they track shipments and then they record their sales right. Actually, I would guarantee you that Apple will have a great holiday with the Apple Watch. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's it's like it's a price to be a present, at least the sport. Yeah, it's a gift. Right. So like lots of parents are going to buy them. I have about 50. 15 emails in my inbox.

Kid you not that are PC owners. I own a PC. Just bugged it in all of my. Now here's what I'm going to say. Thanks for my inbox. If you have an Apple Watch, email Sam at theverge.com and tell me.

Oh, that's a good one too. If you own an Apple Watch, I'm Sam at theverge.com. Tell me how you like it. You can be honest. I won't, you know, post it anywhere. But like I said, wait, wait, wait, hold on.

Don't make that guarantee. He might post it somewhere. Let's see what people say. Maybe it'll be really interesting. Just be honest with me. Because I, I mean, just be honest. You're in a relationship with Santa.

Be honest. Listen, baby. I bought the Apple Watch for reasons, because it's a Gen 1 product and it's an Apple product and I wanted to use it and it's very basic. Yeah, that's what it is. It doesn't do a whole lot.

It's a watch. And for Apple to continue the momentum that they have with this, they need to make it better and thinner and put a camera on it. Wait, why? You want a FaceTime off your watch? Hell yes.

Crazy. person. So, but the thing with the airport, you hold it up. Oh, Tom's where one. Yeah. And you do a few things with it and then your arm hurts. Yes. And there's like no way around that.

So I don't, why would you ever want a Facebook light reading something? It's like eight seconds until I'm like, what, what is this? Okay. That's better. I just, I'm just, I still just rather use my phone. Stop. The only thing I like it for. I know what you're doing.

Dieter is using the beam app on his phone. That's great. It sounds like shaving his chin at the same thing. But I use it for Apple Pay. Because in the UK. We have contact list everywhere. Oh, you know a thing about the watch that I discovered? Yeah.

If you have the watch that's paired to your phone and you leave your house with the watch, your phone battery just goes to shit. Oh, if you leave the watch at your house, right, right. If your phone is just constantly hunting for the watch, you're done. You don't have a battery anymore. You have a dead phone. And that is not acceptable, right? Like, Apple should maybe know that sometimes you're going to take your phone

and not your watch. Yeah, it should cut the Bluetooth. And it just doesn't. It's just like, what do you think? Because you know, my theory of,

uh, the watch is that it's designed around only working at Apple. And the, they can't, Apple can't conceive of what a life outside of Apple is. A life outside of,

a life inside Apple, I think includes getting like four notifications a day. No, because they're all meetings. Apple is like famous meeting culture. No, I know.

I know, I know, I get it. Like, and it's great for that. But what I'm, I'm trying to throw a shade at the way. that iOS still handles notifications.

And on the watch, it's even worse. Like, I, I, I'd swipe that. I use the watch now. We just, okay, we got, we got to finish earnings. We're done with the, we would not recommend the watch. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I wouldn't recommend any smart watch anybody that costs that, I mean, not yet. We don't know yet.

If this is $100, I'd recommend it to it. You want to talk about it? You want to talk about it? We have a little bit left to talk about it. music because music is that there's a thing that happened we can't talk about we can't have a verge cast without talking about apple music is basically the new rule i'm sorry that is what we do now we talk about if we are going to do if you'd like to sponsor the complain about apple music section of the verge cast email sam no don't do it actually i would love we had a dedicated sponsor for

just hating it can't be another music company right it can't but if like if right no okay couldn't be it can't be totally it actually like consumer like it like Tide. Yeah. Like Tide's like, clean up your music library. And then we'd be like, Apple Music blows.

That would be great. Like, I'm open to that. Or mail chimp. It can't be, it's got to be like, it's got to be like, it's got to be like,

you know what else's shit? The shit in his diapers. No, it's got to be like, Bob's concrete. Just like it's some local business. No, you don't understand what I'm saying. Totinos.

TOTinos. Bob's concrete. Do you want to bury iTunes? Do you know, do you know, you'll regret as well? Eating these pizza rolls. With you know what also sounds like a good idea at 4 in the morning?

iTunes in the cloud. Hey! Oh my goodness. Sick buns. Sorry to burn pizza rolls. Tottinos, you're good. Call me. They really are hot fire.

I hype check Totito's pizza rolls. I mean, you got to be really careful when you eat this. When you butt into it, it's like an explosion of hot lop and then you're just like, I can't eat this. that's a visual Sam I'm done how old are you that you're still fucking a pizza rolls dude you put it over the oven

and you take it out and it's like little hot pockets well this has been a night with stone Sam Shephyr it's 520 in the afternoon 514 even can we do an evening with Stone Sam Shepard it's like piano music and like moody lighting

Have you not open periscope at 8 o'clock I mean what are you stoned when you broke your watch no I came back from the bar I had one beer I had one beer Alright alright so Apple music So here let's just do the backstory

So we reviewed Apple music My go was iffy on it We have been noticing bugs with it a lot It's gone down a bunch They were gonna do They were gonna announce the VMA nominations On B2 Radio Bits 1 radio beats one radio went down

It took iTunes in the cloud with it It took Apple Mute like It took everything related to the Apple store The Mac App Store the app store iTunes, Apple Music. I mean, it's a cliche at this point, but Apple and Internet services don't really get junk. So I was going to say, this is like a good way of saying Apple and

cloud services. They're not great. It's actually a bad way because it's like so tiresome at this point. It's like, yeah, well, okay. Surprise. Yeah, like Apple sucks at this. So then, and I think this is, this is the one that gets me. Yeah.

Jim D'Lremple, who runs Loop Inside the Loop, is unabashedly a fan of Apple. I think that's a fair characterization. Apple and Jim get along. He likes their products. So he wrote a glowing review of Apple music three weeks ago. He's like, I'm really, and then when all the stuff went down the other day,

it hosed his music library. It hosed a bunch of people his music. And he wrote this like scathing blog post, calling it a nightmare saying he was done with it, saying he was never going to trust Apple his date again. and that to me, that's the biggest losing those people is you're, you've really

Fed it up, right? Like, you can't all, you can't, you can't be that bad. If Apple music was just as good as Spotify, it would have been fine. Well, my problem with Apple Music is iTunes. Is the, well, that's like, that was a core of Dalryple's problem too. The mix of like his music library and Apple Music or what Apple Music thought of his library. And Chris Welch was explaining to me.

at length what the problem is, which is they had iTunes, which was file-based. Then they did iTunes in the cloud and iTunes Match, which matches your files to Apple's collection of iTunes files.

And then if they don't have a match for you, they upload your music. And that worked fine. iTunes Match worked fine-ish. It wasn't great, but it wasn't eating stuff. Then they grafted the streaming service onto it, and they didn't replace it,

and they didn't do the graft well enough. So now iTunes in the cloud is super messed up because it's built on the back of the streaming service, which doesn't quite work well. And it's deleting stuff and then removing album art. And like that match process is what's destroying people's lives. Right. But so like that's the terrible problem. But the one that gets me is the problem that he experienced when you like tried to add a new album. And Apple music is like, oh, well, this is like a best of. And I know you've already got these other three songs. So I'm just not going to add those. Right. And like I want the album, yo, just give me, and then you

double add it, you fix it, and then you come back the next day, and it's all broken again. So my theory here, and this is really nerdy, but I think Vergecast listeners will appreciate the nerdiness of it. Is it iTunes is conceptual, the metaphor for iTunes is conceptually, totally different than

the metaphor for Apple Music. Right? So iTunes is all about files and moving files. It's the metaphor is a physical music collection that you have and own, and you can do stuff with it that you want to do. and the metaphor, and this is going to sound crazy, but the metaphor for every streaming service is still radio.

Right? It's still, you pick some songs and they play at you, and you can put them in a playlist, but you never own the stuff. Right, it's still like you turn it on and turn it off and stuff is happening. And there's never any concept of ownership in there. No.

So there's no sense of what's yours. Not ownership. Right. There's never, Emily's point about every streaming service is now you own all the music, and the only thing that you're really doing is applying some filters to, all the music so that you can listen to some of it.

And you're constantly reminded there's no ownership because songs disappear. Right. Like they'll still be in your playlist, but you won't be to play them because they've been removed. Right. So what I don't get about Apple music at all and like just all this stuff, like all these problems are conceptual problems with it. They're the clash between these, these metaphors.

All they needed to do was say if you sign up for Apple music, every buy button in the iTunes store is going to turn into a get button. Right. And then everybody who understands iTunes would be like, that's awesome. And they would just like sign up for it. And they would just keep using. iTunes and other people have used it. They tried to add all this other stuff and it got totally away from it. I think a part of it is is the new and the old and it's, I think it's Apple facing like

a problem that Microsoft always has. It's like, right. Yeah. You've got all these people on this old stuff, this legacy stuff. How do we kind of graph stuff in and still keep them comfortable and all that sort of stuff? Yeah. Whereas beats music was fine because it was just a new app and it was something new and Apple, you say that if we're going to, if we're going to, if we're going to cannibalize anything, we're going to cannibalize ourselves. They refuse to cannibalize iTunes. And this is something I think that you're going to see a lot with Apple. As they grow their base, when they try to do new things, innovative things,

they're going to be careful about the old stuff. Right. And it's just, you know, that's definitely part of the problem with Apple music. So grafting all that stuff on top of iTunes. It's a terrible experience if you've got an iPhone and a Windows machine. And I've, you know, the only way to use it is through iTunes on Windows, which is not great. Abandonware. I think we were all hoping that what they would do is upgrade iTunes.

Yeah. Right? We thought they would make it better and like pull the iPhone management somewhere else because now you don't need it as much. Pull all the other garbage. Or just do a separate app and pull in all of the playlist that are in your iTunes library into. Or just have it scanned. Or Spotify playlists and import them.

Oh, yeah. They just try to do too much with this app. Yeah. I don't use it. Also too little. Like it was a year. They bought the thing a year ago. What?

They bought Beetz a year ago. They bought it last May. Yeah. What you've been doing for a year? And the thing is, beats was, like there was none of these issues because you didn't have that legacy

to bolt it all onto. Right. And then on top of it, because they moved all the authentication to your Apple ID, it's like you're buying in, you have to do too much buy-in. Right?

You're like, now all of my iTunes are a part of this. You're like, what if I just don't want to do that? Like, what if I just want to try this out? and you can't. Well, everyone's on the three month

tour, right? Yeah. So you see what happens after that. No, but it still screws with your life. Yeah.

It's like messes with your files and like moves you around. Like I don't, I think what everybody wanted was for Apple to look at the mess that was iTunes. And just fix it all.

And fix it. And instead they just added more stuff to iTunes. And now iTunes is slow as hell. It's actually like, it's like you're saying, it's, it's web,

there's a web something happening back there, right? It's sort of like over JSON. Like iTunes breaks in crazy ways and like shows you source code. Yeah. Right? It's like it's just, it's just a mess.

And I think it's a mess because it's never going to make any money for Apple. It's like this prestige product because they want to say they're good with artists. They want to be known as a creative company. But all of their money is in the iPhone. So all of their engineering effort in best people. All that is an iPhone. Goes to the iPhone and iOS. And this one piece of the iPhone is like a mess.

It's just a mess. Like listening to music on iPhone is like a messy product. This is why I want an iPod. Listening to music with Apple music on the phone is a problem. No, because Spotify's a heap of garbage too. The best thing that ever happened is.

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. We're not doing this. Do we have to do this again? The best thing that ever happened is Spotify is that Apple music made it look good. No. The day Spotify came to the U.S.,

I jumped right on that thing. I know. We've heard your history, man. You guys have a beautiful love story of Sam and Spotify. I'm going to sit back and drink my artisanal cold brew and listen to RDO. I'll tell you the one thing about Apple music and like the Apple Watch and stuff like that that's quite worrying about Apple in general is that they're just like really hard to use and understand. There's no owner. Like Apple Music, there's nobody who owned it.

You can feel it. Yeah. Nobody owns the whole thing. And the Apple Watch is kind of like I never used the. You use the crown. Like, why is it there? I use the crowd. Like to scroll.

Here's why I use the crowd. I use the crown to scroll down to hit the freaking dismiss button because you can't swipe stuff half the time. That's when I use a crown. Why can't I just... Messy. But then just carrying in and out... Yeah. Besides from that, but when I first used Apple music, I don't...

I've always used Spotify on here, so I haven't used it for a few times. So I'm like a new user going into it. I'm like, what... How does this work? Yeah. What's happening? Why is there like a trillion things when I click on... Yeah.

Trillion different options when I click on... I'm going to... I'm going to cater to... It's weird. We should all switch to groove. No. We should all switch to Google Play music. I mean, let's just pass.

Do it. Just do it. That, you should, you should do it against my will. My entire staff forced me to try Google Play music. It's not the entire staff. It's the angry people of the Verge talk. It's the reader. They're right now.

If you want to be allowed to use Google Play Music, email, Sam at the Verge.com. You don't know. The tweets always go. The second I start talking to music, it's like the army, the five people left on Google Plus, like he's doing it again. Wow. Everybody tell about Google Play music. Oh, no.

I'm sorry, man. You want to live in a ghost town? I bet it's cheap there. Prices are low. Can we talk about... It's cool. No restaurants? Can we talk about Hope real quick?

Like Star Wars? No. No. Just in general. I have hope about the MotoX. I have hope for every new flagship Android phone. Oh, yeah. Same.

That it'll have a good camera. Yeah, literally next week on the Vergecast, we're going to be like, why does that camera suck? Yeah. But I, right now, right now at this moment. Oh, there's hope. And I even have a... hope for the MotoG. The MotoG is graduating from, like, the super cheap camera to, like, solid mid-range

phone, or solid mid-range phone, which is cool that all the leaks have happened. We've, like, seen pictures of everything. But the MotoX, like... Is this going to be the first time we see a MotoX when Motorola is owned by Lenovo? Yeah. And so the S-6, it should have been it, except that Samsung software, which I was willing to accept, and then battery life, which, uh, right? Like, the battery life just wasn't.

good enough. So, like, it was almost there. The camera was, like, I would not be the, I would not complain about it. The S6 camera? Yeah. Yeah, that's great. It's super. It's great. And the MotoX camera is not. We'll see with the new one. Right, right. But the current version is, I do it a little bit with the G4. I do it with every MotoX. I do it with every Samsung Galaxy. And I kind of do it with the Nexus phones. I'm always like, all right, man, this is the one. This is the one where I don't, like, go, oh man, wish I could have whatever, blah, blah, blah, battery for camera that the iPhone has,

or I wish I didn't hate the software, which is nuts, because I genuinely do prefer, like, I don't know, maybe it's just the notification system, honestly, but like I do, like, feel like I can fly around Android better than I can fly around an iPhone.

And material design is just, like, adorable. Yeah. It's like an adorable. It just looks, it's fun. It's, like, fun to play with. When does that event happen next week? Tuesday. Tuesday.

I think. It's all gone down. On the verge. Crazy tick. Some a week. Yeah, it's going to be a good week. Yeah. So I have hope.

Am I the only one that like still holds out hope every time a big Android phone comes up? I mean, they have to do it eventually. They literally, someone has to do it. Whether it's no. They don't. They have to be better than the iPhone. No, no, no. I just mean for the camera.

I mean, literally one of the only complaints left about. They have to be better than the iPhone camera. Yeah. Having to do that is very different. could be as good as the iPhone camera. They just need to be better than the garbage that's out there now. But the S6 is good. Yeah. And now it's like Motorola's turn.

Yeah. Motorola has never been good. Motorola has never produced a guy. But the software that it runs is a nice, clean vanilla. Plus you get to do the screwdriver motion to launch it. Yeah, that's like the coolest thing in the world. All I want LG to do is put the G4's camera in the Nexus 5. And also like what?

The next Nexus 5. I think it's a Huawei phone. phone is a rumor. Oh, come. Oh, yeah. That's the current room. That's like, you can sit with us. Yeah. You know? Oh, are you, Yilan? You knew? Are you new? Are you new to school? Did you see that there's a rumor that shot LG

stock up? The rumor was going to buy a 35% stake in LG? Come on. You got immediately denied. It's like, the CEO of LG is like, I bet I can he was like, I need to buy a boat. Like, that was like what he thought to himself. And he was like, how can I get that boat? Man. And there's like, his

other body was at the bar. He's like, just saying, I don't. He's like, I'm going to get that boat. Like three drinks later. It's like Googling pictures of yachts. Someone checked the CEO of LG's Twitter. See what he's been up to. Suspiciously disgusting votes. What's that billionaire's account on Twitter?

It's just billionaires. If the CEO of LG follows billionaires on Twitter, then we know exactly what happened. Never mind. Billioners tweeted a picture of a boat and then the, never mind. I unfollow that account. It was way too much luxury in my life. Yeah. Just FYI anyway.

I'm currently looking at Ninja Cats. This is this thing. So tell me what's going on with Microsoft and the Ninja Cat. Yeah. The gift of the cat carrying the flag, riding the T-Rex, whose arms are too short, and so he has to use a little extender grabber clause thing. Which is the meme, right?

It's going into Skype, right? Yeah, he's in Skype, right? Yeah. What? Yeah. You can go in Skype and do bracket Winn 10 or Windows 10 close and then send it off. All right. You get.

It started off as a silly little thing where I'm not going to name her, but she created a ninja cat, put some stickers in a room, and then all the engineers came in and sort of like grabbed them and then it kind of spread from that. And now it's turned into her. You know, everyone's found out about it on the internet. It's its own meme, I guess. I mean, look, Microsoft and they've embraced it.

This is their moment. Yeah. It's all happening for them. But yeah, Ninja Cat riding bacon down the mountain. I feel like somebody at Microsoft

finally got Photoshop. I feel like, I got it. And it's, but it's like, Microsoft paint this whole time. But it's all like old memes. They're like,

you know, it's the kid, bacon. The kids love bacon. And then they're like, this is the, no, you know,

the Reddit thing. Yeah. But that's, but that's what it's based on. What time does it normal bacon? that like that. Sam and gauge

the audience. Well, I think we should also... Wait, wait. Wait, check Apple music right now. One, two? Ooh, rough. I literally don't use it. All right, what are you going to say? Oh, we should just tell the listeners

and readers of the schedule for next week because there's a lot happening next week. All right. Yeah. I want to go through it? We did it earlier in the show. So everything... All the craziness happens basically starting the 20th.

We'll have Motorola in the morning, East Coast, and then... So Monday? Or Tuesday? Tuesday. And then you can take a breather, and then Nokia has whatever this VIP event is, and then you can maybe take a breather. And then into the 29th is when Windows 10 hits,

and people will be able to get the final build installed and looking at it. In addition to that, there's other stuff happening this week from other companies. There's a bunch of like, whoa, this is going to be a thing that we care about. a couple other phone makers. So like there's just a bunch of stuff happening, but it's all sort of convalescing, not convalescing, colliding on the 28th. And I swear to God, I get pitches from PR people.

Even now it's like, hey, we're doing a thing in the 28th. It's like, ha, ha, maybe you're not. You don't do that. So yeah, that's the big deal. So next week is a big week. Okay. Engage. Let's see you, buddy.

Snapchat. You use Snapchat, probably. Most likely, maybe. If you do, you should follow the real Verge on Snapchat and you will be entertained. And that is all I'm going to say about Snapchat. We're also on Periscope. We're at Verge on Periscope like we are on Twitter. We're at Verge.

We live stream things at random given times like today. The Oscar Meyer Wiener Mobile showed up to the office in RC car form. And it was really strange and weird. And we periscoped that among many other things. Did he get to see how fast it went? I was told that it was extremely fast. It can like... Did it actually have hot dogs inside?

Yes, it had a lot of the door opened up on the top. The person who was controlling the car said that one's programmed to go about 20, 25, but it can be like jacked up to go 75. Which is like, you want to see a wiener going 75 miles an hour? Who doesn't? Who has it? And yeah, you should also follow us on Instagram because we post our beautiful images on there. we're also Verge on Instagram. And back to you, Niles.

Well, that was it. That's our show. Job done. I'm gone next week. So I'm excited. Do you ever get this way where you're excited to go away? Well, something big happens? You can come back and it already happen.

Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to live through it. I just want to come back and have it. You just want to see it from afar. Just want to see the results. Yeah. You just want to browse Twitter for iPhone on your iPhone 6 plus from a beach.

Yeah. Sipping a martini. Yeah. I mean, smoking a cigar. All of that sounds great, but that's not what I'm going to do. You'll find time to do it. Yeah, I mean, look, if you're in Cape Town in South Africa and you want to hang,

let me a note, we'll be there for a while next week. How do we find you on Twitter? I'm reckless. Oh, nice. Good. Well done. Thanks. Pro professional chef.

Social beast. Corp. Corp. Corporate Sam. Corp. Corp. Corp. Sam Corp.

Sam Corp. Thomas, Tom is at Tom Warren. Sue chef. Tom is at Tom Warren. Dieter's at Backlon. Sam is at Sam Schaeffer. He's also Sam at the verge.com. Email me.

Tell me your thoughts and feeling. You know, before the show started, he told me that he thinks Windows sucks. That's false. That's a family false. There are also many ways to get a hold of them. You hear them from Sam, forget a hold of us.

You can hear him from Sam. We have, I don't know what the hell I'm saying. I'm not looking at the road down. My heart is gone. So next week is Anarchy on the Verge cast. Anarchy on the Verge cast. Utter anarchy. We have other podcasts.

which are great. There's Watsack with Chris Plant. Emily and Liz, actually just a great episode of Virg ESP, where they talk to you a neuroscientist about while spoilers actually make movies better, which is crazy. So you should listen to that. And where can you find those? Jesus, man. Don't make me do this like fake

press event bullshit. You're like, what do you think about the new trackpad in Windows 10 random actress from Star Wars? That's the worst. That was Samsung. No, Paul Com. It was Alice Eve. It was Star Trek in the darkness. And Paul Jacobs is like, what do you think of our new turbo pipeline? She was like, I'm scared.

I remember the cringes we had in that trailer. It was just one of the worst things. Anyway, iTunes.com slash, wait, what is it? The true story is that the whole reason that we have our photo essay layout is I stayed up all night building the first one. We're like, oh, we should do that again. And we built, we created a photo essay based on it. You just broke ground, Dieter. iTunes, that's it.

That's why you work in a modern media company with, great web-based tools. Sign up now. We are actually hiring. We are actually hiring. We should mention that. Legitimately, we are hiring for like 50 positions across the company.

Across the company, there are 110 open positions at Fox Media coming live over the next few months. The verge alone is somewhere between 15 and 20. There's 15 open right now. So just start applying for jobs. Do you like cars? Because Chris Sigler would like to talk to you.

Anyway, back to the podcast. iTunes.com slash verge. Please. It's iTunes.com slash verge, isn't it? It's iTunes. Because there's other things that's verge cast. Oh, my God. It's so confusing.

Look, do something with iTunes. Make that thing related to us. What should they, when they rated five stars, what should they? I think they should explain why Sam should use a Windows PC. Oh. Well, Sam should switch to Windows 10. That's what I'd like to hear.

Compel me, listeners. Compel. Jesus. It's the weakest thing, like a ruler and work. Compel me, my people. All right, we're done. We're done. John is crying. The lights have turned red once again. That was the Vartcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you again soon. Rock and roll. Goodbye. Bye.