The Vergecast - Juice responsibly

Episode Date: April 1, 2016

This week on the Vergecast, Nilay, Dieter, Jake, and Nicola review the reviews! The iPad Pro 9.7, Soundcloud Go, and the Microsoft Build developer conference; with much talk about bots. We're covering all the top tech news so if you liked what you read this week, listen in for the in depth discussion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome with the Vergecast, the flagship podcast to the verge.com. Vergecast is brought to you by Sizervodka, which is a vodka brand that I made up and that I will continue pimping until somebody pays for it. Cisiervodka, cut through the night. Hi, I'm Neil I Patel. I'm here, host of the Vergecast. I'm joined today by Jay Castranakis. Hello. Dieter Bone.

Sorry, I can't focus right now. I'm making bot puns on Twitter. Oh, my God. Nicola. Hello. What up? I wish I had something good to tell. I'll tell you. No, I want to actually start with you. There's a thing I want to talk to you about.

Tell me. And it's actually, you're going to argue with Jake. I'm setting you up for it. Oh, man. This morning, you tweeted something insane. What? You tweeted SoundCloud Go is the best thing to happen to me. Yo. I didn't want to respond to that, but I deleted Spotify.

I mean, I got to say, SoundCloud is the thing that makes me feel old. More than Snapchat, more than anything. Really? It's SoundCloud. It did take me a long time to figure SoundCloud out, but I'm here. I get it. I know how to use it. What do you listen to on SoundCloud?

Okay. Wait, let's all stop for one second. Jake, give me two sentences on what SoundCloud Go is. SoundCloud launched its Spotify competitor. You pay $10 a month and you get to stream, you know, music from legitimate musicians and not like the random SoundCloud people. Okay. Nicola, why are you in love with SoundCloud Go?

Spotify. I mean, SoundCloud isn't all random, though, because a lot of musicians, rappers and such, put music there that you can't get on Spotify. So, like, there's a new song out right now by Drake Protege Party Next Door. I can't listen to that on Spotify. So if I'm on the subway and I'm off of any kind of network,

I don't can't listen to that song. Which is fine, you know, I just wait until I get to the office, listen to that song. It's the only song I listen to this week. but now today I listened to it on the subway like four times and it was glorious oh wait sound cloud didn't have any kind of offline before no I feel like I've listened to something offline on something okay well maybe I never looked into it no it doesn't I didn't think so yeah all the sound cloud like fans I saw commenting were super pumped about offline mode I think like more

excited about offline so does it's just there's a lot of times like something like a mixtape or something will be on sound cloud and then it's not on Spotify if it is on Spotify ever it might be like one or two weeks. So I can be really excited about something, but most of my music listening times on the subway, headphones in, underground, and I'm just like, all right, I guess I'm listening to my U-S-Up girl playlist again.

Yeah. This is a good playlist? I think so. Yeah, so you're fine. But does SoundCloud have the same library of Spotify? More bootleg. So no. It has.

So that's fundamental. This is actually a legitimate, very legitimate issue. It has half as many songs. It has like 15 million and Spotify has like 30 million. And like those are two giant abstract numbers. But the important thing to know is that the 15 million it doesn't have includes like Kanye West. Yeah. So.

But that's not true. Because there are Kanye West songs on SoundCloud uploaded by Kanye West. I know. The thing is like I actually 100% agree. with you. I think it's super cool that SoundCloud has all these things. I think it would be really, really, really powerful if you could listen to those, like, unique Kanye tracks

alongside Kanye's actual music, his studio releases. But you can't do that. Like, it doesn't have Kanye, doesn't have Katie Perry. I created a giant list. It doesn't have, like, radio head. But so there's, like, there's stuff on SoundCloud that is legitimately cool and or cooler

than what you can get on Spotify. I would say, like, you wouldn't get more unique and, like, faster music. Like, if you are someone who follows like who follows like these things you can get unique and more fast music on SoundCloud. Spotify is going to be like you're reliable like anything

you want that you could buy a CD store. Yeah so this is this is why SoundCloud makes me feel old because you have to be in the know you have to know what's out there what's cool what you can go get and Spotify like Spotify is for the Eagles and SoundCloud is for like

the latest I was using Spotify's. I actually listen to a really funny mix this morning by this girl unique who's like a, she's like a Jersey club DJ, like a lot of like bed squeak noises in her mix. And she did. And she did a mix for Nest, like the smart home. I think. It was like, this is your girl unique here for like Nest HQ.

And then like went into like her regular scheduled programming. And I was like, is this really like a 20 minute commissioned nest mix? Yeah. You all should look it up. That's incredible. This is why we have a website. I'll tweet it too, so everyone has it. Right.

An underground SoundCloud artist performing at the Nesthead. Yeah, I really miss this. Distributed only through SoundCloud's proprietary streaming service. Maybe I should have told Jameson. This is the future we deserve. Yeah, so I don't know. SoundCloud, I felt like it super let me down. But I mean, when I did use the radio feature, that was really cool because then it was playing

me all these unknown artists and I was like actually finding stuff that I really enjoyed. I don't think that. would have happened on Spotify, it would have just played me like, you know, the normal pop hits. Right. I mean, Spotify's for the Eagles. Yeah. Spotify also just raised a billion dollars. Yeah.

Spotify's going to be fine. Yeah. I mean, but a billion dollars that SoundCloud shaky, all the word is that SoundCloud is shaky. And this is their big step into the mainstream. Spotify raised a billion dollars. Not because they need the money, but they want to keep pace with Apple and keep growing. And the money set with a deadline for them. IPO. Really? Yeah, it's like within a year or something. So Spotify is taking the big company

leaps. Okay, imagine this. What if SoundCloud licensed all of its like random user music to Spotify? And you can get all of that nonsense in Spotify. Wouldn't that be sick? Would that be something? I feel like it would be cool. I mean, I continue to believe that Spotify's UI is garbage. You should try SoundCloud's UI. So I've been using this app called Seism that are old, this is true, that our old video producer, our old video producer, Creighton D. Simone.

Okay. Virtuous listeners will know him as Crayshan. It's terrible. Hey, Creshawn. Yeah, Creshaun, what's up, buddy? He put me on this app called Seism, which is like a $2 app in the app store. It is basically exactly what I want.

It is local music, all my stuff, but then I can open Apple music. It has the same interface as the old like iOS music player. But then you can like go into Apple Music and just hit save and it shows up in Seism and plays in Seisman. So Apple Music becomes the store for an interface that is good. That's not right.

Think about that. It's all that I want. How does one spell Seism? C-E-S-I-U-M. Oh, not like seizing. Like you're seizing the music out of Apple Music. Yes, it's not appropriation. The music store.

the chemical element. With atomic number 55. Yeah. Series searches. It costs $55. It's a soft silvery gold alkali metal. Do you know what the melting point of cesium is? The 30% app store tax?

It's 28.5 Celsius. What good is Siri? Wait, is that spotlight that you're using or is that? This spotlight. So here's my question. Why aren't spotlight and Siri more tightly connected? Because they aren't being very smart or careful about their search and intelligent assistant strategy like Microsoft is.

So we should go into build, I think is what Deeter's selling us. So Deeter, by the way, for you in the car, very important to us. Deeter, what color is yours? This is the silver iPad Pro. Deeter's using the smaller iPad Pro with his idiotity keyboard. I have a rose gold iPad Pro. It's easy.

It's not available on the iPad. They gave me the rose gold one with a mint green case. It looks like a 1950s kitchen. Yeah. It's really odd. Huh. I don't like it. By odd, you mean halaciously ugly. It's really unattractive. But Deider's been using this. This has been his computer for some reason.

Yeah. Well, like I said, we're doing this now. We're doing this now. No, we're doing Microsoft. Let's do Microsoft first. Then we're going to talk about the iPad. And then I've got a lightning rad like you wouldn't believe. I prepped for the show this to. How come our chairs don't have seat belts? Because I need to buckle up. Cut through the night. Let's talk about Microsoft. So, Microsoft.

Yeah. Surging back into relevance. Doing some stuff. Yeah, you wouldn't know that they were searching back into relevance by the first hour and a half of their two-hour keynote yesterday, though. They're not irrelevant yet. They're like, we're going to be so relevant as soon as bots take off. What I really enjoyed about, so yesterday is Bill, the big developer conference. Lauren Good was there, Tom Warren was there, live-blogging until they died.

They were very tired by the end. Lauren literally made no sense when she was. We need to get them keyboards that are waterproof because they were bleeding by the end. It was in so many different ways. which is great and I love it and I love the swagger. Hate the one guy. Love the swagger.

Brian Roper is who you're... No, he's phenomenal. You're crazy. He's like the best presenter of all tech presenters. Nicola, did you see the fedora man? I had so many pictures tweeted at me of these people.

I love the fedora man, dripping in swag. His cuffs, man. So good. So good. Yeah? I mean, if you're going to do it, you got to go all the way.

Yeah, I just have respect for him. Well, though, like every time. he goes on stage, Twitter loses its mind over him. And he does it back down. He actually gets more flamboyant every time he comes out on stage. haters are my motivators. Right? Microsoft found this dude on a cruise ship.

Yes. That's all you need to do. He was a cruise ship entertainer. Wait, really? Yes. Oh my God. Wait, really? Yes.

Wait, get in the backstory. Give me the whole thing. That's all I know. But now he's like runs product of Microsoft. Somebody from Microsoft was on a cruise and they saw this dude and were like, huh, we should hire him. Just to present stuff? Yes.

No, I mean, I think he also, like, teaches other Microsoft people how to present stuff. Yeah. Wow. Like, he was, like, the magician on a cruise ship. If you had to know, like, how, like, deeply nerdy in corporate Microsoft is. Well, Microsoft has a legendary executive cooling up program, right? Like, Joe Belfiore was, like, a regular-looking guy, and they turned him into, like, the guy from Journey, basically. You think they did the same thing with the guy who runs HoloLons?

The guy who runs hollands was very He had this angel shirt The sparkly angel shirt The guy he runs hollins Oh with the blazer over? Yeah It was like Tinkerbell Like just like slammed into his chest

And died Unforgivable That's the shirt No no the shirt was unforgivable You don't think a sparkle shirt Under a blazer is a good idea Not the best I like the fedora guy better

Strong Well so we should go into the actual analysis So it came out The biggest news I think by far they're putting one to Linux on the no it's a big deal

it is a huge deal and I always say our top story out of build yeah by far so if you don't understand like so the short version is they're putting bash which is the born again shell it's like the terminal window

that let you run the Unix command line inside windows up until now if you wanted to do command line crap you had to use the window stuff which is like DIR and CD well CD works like all that stuff and Linux has a totally different

set of commands, but then there's also a whole set of development tools that are based on top of Linux. And so basically if you want to be a modern app developer, you use Linux or Unix. That's the language you speak in. That's what all your environments get set up in. And if you try and do it in Windows, you end up in this hole where like you use Windows to make Windows stuff and you need to learn something completely different to make the other stuff. And so it bifurcates the, you know, your abilities. Is that because of mobile that everybody is using these? It's a whole It's mobile and web. It's mobile and web first and then mobile.

So all the servers run Linux, right? So if you want to get into a server and do crap, you're doing it in Linux. A bunch of Microsoft IT administrators are about to call you. Sorry, guys. I don't know what you're saying. Well, so our guys, like the Vox Media product team, their response to it was, we don't believe it. Oh, my God, we believe it.

Oh, that's so cool. Oh, I don't have to buy a MacBook, which was a really interesting set of leaps. Yep. they were like, I would like to buy a thinner laptop with an OLED screen. Like that's where that chain led. They just started looking at cooler laptops, which was interesting. Which is exactly what Microsoft was hoping would happen. Yeah.

So big news in its way. Our engineer, Frank, Frank B, wrote a story about it on the verge. You should read. And he's like, when you take computer science, you're told the set up a Linux environment. Yeah. And now you don't have, you can just use a Windows computer. Anyway, that's whatever. It's huge news

What's so weird is it's whatever it was also like the most popular thing It was the most popular like audience thing that came out of the event But it wasn't by far like the most ambitious thing that came out of the event So like Microsoft new version, not new version New update to Windows 10 anniversary edition So like oh my God, new version of Windows sort of People should be freaking about that No lots of shrugs right

New Xbox stuff all kinds of crazy Xbox stuff Nope lots of drugs New strategy New strategy for actually fixing like tablet apps on Windows That should be a big deal, lots of shrugs. Wait, when did that even happen? What? There was two and a half hours long, man.

You just blinked. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's this thing called the Universal Windows platform where you can make an app that'll work on tablets and desktops and HoloLens and wearables and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it builds into all the modern stuff that's in Windows like Cortana can search it and you can get notifications and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But most Windows apps aren't that.

Most Windows apps are the old style Win 32 apps. Oh, right, and they have a converter. And now they have a desktop converter that can just like, convert that shit. Yeah. And they can convert games. Like they converted like age of empires to. They just like hit a button.

They did the Witcher 3. That's what the Witcher 3. Yeah. Okay. But why would you want to play the Witcher 3 on your tablet? I mean you would. I mean I would. Like touchscreen controls?

No, you compare a control, an Xbox controller to a tablet. I would play Age of Empires on a tablet though. I feel like that would work. That's all right. The move. All right. With that stylus? With that surface pen?

Oh yeah. Think about it. Just like circle a bunch of units. Throw them at some like castle or whatever. What's up? Yeah. That's how you sell surface. Circles.

It's always circles. The finest RTS from 1996. Okay. Then they did some Holland stuff, and particularly with Holland. Holland stuff, man. They talk about Holland. Like, it's already an enormous success that everybody has. And the way they talk to their developers, they're like,

you can take this app, you can put it here, you can put it on Xbox. Fedora Man's like, you can, ink is free, with one line of code. Now everyone's drawn with a stylus. And then they're like, and then your app will even go onto HoloLens. It'd be cool if this iPad. And it's like, no one has one of those.

Well, now developers who've paid $2,000. Yeah, the only people have, developers soon. They start shipping today, yesterday, today. Today. Time is a concert. Some time in the time of me thinking of that thought

and you hearing it, Microsoft has started shipping the Hollins. But usually when HoloLens gets on stage, they show something creepy. They show like robots literally blasting out of walls and attacking the guy on stage and he's jumping around and shooting lasers at him and you're like, oh my God, or they show Minecraft on a table and you can like dig inside the table in the Minecraft world and like, oh my God, I want that. This time around they showed like what? They showed the doctors in the weird body. Yeah, they showed the weird body.

That's cool. But like it didn't hit consumers. But the other thing is they showed the screen of all the partners and oh my God, it's a snoozer. Really? It's like Audi is going to do corporate training. Lowe's is going to do Maybe you can build a virtual house That's kind of cool Volkswagen corporate training

There's some company called Stryker with a Y Striker with a Y I'm just going to say this My friend in college John Hirsch There's in a glam rock band called Pixel In the Chronic Network And his glam rock name was Stryker Okay

So I'm really hoping that's him Okay I'm just saying that would be awesome Sob is going to do something with HoloLens Who? Saab Sob? Yeah Oh the most exciting car company

Do you want to sob a defunct brand? It took me like most of that sentence to realize you cannot buy a sob in the United States of America. Yeah. There's no chance that you can't. I'm Googling sob. You can't stop me. It's the first time it's been Googled in a decade. You can totally buy a sob.

My brother, my older brother had a sob and I was pretty sad. Sob is a currently inactive manufacture of automobiles that was found in Sweden in 1945. Sob is gone. I'll just wait for it to get those hollow lens. Sob, sob the official car of the slightly bad apples in high school. Yeah, right? That was my older brother. Everyone, everyone who was a slightly bad egg.

Yeah, not like a totally bad egg, just a little. Yeah, you got good grades, but you smoke cigarettes while getting them. Yeah, you drove a sob. That's right. No wonder they're out of business. Millennials took them out of business. Millennials. The ultimate Gen X car.

Yeah, they're like, you know what, cigarettes are bad. We don't need sobs anymore. Just putting it out there. Anyway, sobs are going to make a hollens app so you can pretend to smoke while you drive your defunct car. But like Microsoft, we are avoiding talks. about the very interesting thing. We're going to try and, like, lead up to it. And now we're just talking about the boring stuff.

Nicol, let me ask you a question. Yeah. Would you talk to a bot, like a chat bot to make a travel reservation? Um, maybe. Do you talk to any chat bots now outside of CF bot or Giffy or whatever we have? I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think I'm currently engaged with any bots.

I'm not either from the most part. But you are, I mean, you mean like type in a box like, hey, I want to get a, two, I want to get two rooms, four nights in Delaware. I don't know. Strikingly unambitious place too long. I'm going to Delaware and I need this. And then they would be like, oh, you do you do this. But I'm such a like, I'm such a like a spread it all out and like search through it kind of shopper.

Like I don't want stuff done for me. That's why I do the job that I do as a shopping editor. Because I like this, I like the sorting and the and seeing everything and finding the best stuff. Right. So it would be hard for me to like relinquish that, but I could understand how like a time-strapped, professional would want someone to do it for them. Right. Right. But like, did your echo ever come?

No. But I did get refunded, even though it's still at the post office. And they, and Amazon to apologize, extended my prime one month. Oh. Whoa, one month. It's $9. They gave you $9. I'm on my stepmom's account.

Oh, my God. Well, the echo is fundamentally a bot, but you would type to. Or Siri. If you could type to Siri. This is the, this, like, this gets into the super existential question about what is a bot? Right? We're still not talking about things. No, because, like, the way such an adult, like, got on stage and, like, expounded this grand philosophy of a canvas, a bot canvas.

Yeah. Where you could go into a chat app and I could, like, talk to bots. And he's got this whole, like, three-layer thing where there's humans and then there's intelligent assistance. And then there's bot. And they're different things because a human isn't a bot, probably. And so when you talk to Cortana or Alexa or Siri, you're talking to an intelligent assistant, and then it can talk to the bot. But sometimes you can talk to the bot directly, but bots are dumb. But at what point is the bot just like an API?

Let's pack up. Okay. Let's just zoom out. It's really hard to not get in the weeds with bots. Yeah. Let's zoom out. Here's what happened. Microsoft completely lost at mobile.

Yeah. Facebook, one at mobile. on the application layer does not have a platform of its own. Right. Well, it has Facebook. Yeah, but Facebook isn't a platform. Sure it is. Where?

Well, it's not a hardware platform. It's, but the Facebook, like, Facebook makes money selling ads to people who are, like, using Facebook. Yeah, well, it's a platform where very, very few people are successful long-term playing on that platform. Yeah, I mean, it's trying again and again. There's us as media companies. There was Zinga, but they crashed and burned. Yeah, that's it. There are no, like, apps that are built on top of Facebook.

Except like every app on my iPhone I use Facebook to log into it. But you use a Facebook app. Right. I use the Facebook single login. Yeah, but it doesn't make anything you want. You're making you real mad. You're trying to make this argument. No, there's iOS and there's Android.

I will grant you the Facebook. Those are the core platforms of the modern age. Yes. Right? And there's the web, which I believe every day, every week on the show, we have a sad funeral for the web. But there's iOS and there's Android. Microsoft lost that battle.

They didn't even talk about phones yet. I don't know. Did you try the Lumia 1020? No, my God. You know, we should have given the Lumia 900 to 10. And I regret that every single day that we didn't give that phone a 10. Oh, my God. Such a troll. That phone deserved a one.

It was a piece of garbage. Anyway. Wow. It was. And it never got updated. And we were totally right about that phone sucking and totally right about Microsoft not getting more passes about that. Yep. Their operating system didn't go where it needed to go.

It was a good operator. Many good ideas. Yeah. So glad you derailed this. Well, that makes me terrified. Like, Windows 10 is better. than Windows phone was when it launched. We loved it.

Like, there's so many great ideas in Windows 10. I really hope that it succeeds because it's like, I've made the joke about, like, Spotlight and Siri being separate and Apple's being dumb about that. Like, Microsoft isn't. Like, oh, it's awesome. Everyone is telling me what these companies are. Saab Aerospace Company.

Yes. Striker makes, uh, artificial limbs. Striker makes the missiles for the jets. Oh. They're shaped like artificial limbs. Wait. A missile company is making a hollow lens. Oh, artificial.

Yeah, because if you're like a military, person and you're like fixing a jet you can wear the length you know oh this is like the main not for me this is the main thing of augmented reality right now is you're gonna wear it it's Google Glass this is yeah right you're gonna wear it while you like do stuff and it's gonna give you instructions and like see where you are why are they marketing this as a consumer product if it seems like it's a robot's gonna burst out of the wall yeah but they're not you

play Minecraft oh yeah that's true anyway back to bots bots iOS and Android one Microsoft didn't win but now iOS and Android are entrenched I think what we're seeing with both Apple and to a certain extent Google, their market positions are fixed, and the real action is happening on top of the screen, right? Like on top of the operating system. Right. That's where Facebook has by far been the biggest winner so far, right? They have colonized the iOS home screen.

They have Facebook. They have Instagram. They have WhatsApp. Some other ones. Layout. It's messenger layout. They have a bunch of garbage, but they have a bunch of huge billion user hits. Now what Microsoft is saying is,

okay, we've lost that game too, although they've been successful. They're moving all their apps horizontally to iOS and Android. The next layer is you're going to use a messaging app to talk to an intelligent service, or you're going to use the intelligent assistant somewhere in your life and have that talk to a service for you. And I think listening to this show, we constantly talk about the echo, and the reason the echo is exciting is because it's divergent from the phone. It's like another layer to talk to things.

So Nadella came on stage yesterday, and he was like, This is the next evolution of the user interface. And then he said something amazing, which I encourage everyone to go listen to and really think about what this means. He was like, this is, this shows you the power of human language. And it's like, really this, this, this, 2016, 2000, really? This one?

It's not the history of civilization. We've been demonstrating the power of human language for some time. Anyway. I mean, okay, I'm not going to. What? Human language is the way that we create meaning And if you are able to use the same tool you use to create meaning To interact with digital things, then that is in fact actually very powerful.

You don't need to learn a whole new tool. It's like putting Linux on Windows. Oh my God. Really? Yes, really. Fine. I just threw my arms in the air for listeners. If you're in the car, what I want you do is take your hands off the wheel.

Throw them in the air triumphantly. And you just did what Dieter did. No, I'm with you. It was one of those tech moments where they said something as though it was self-eastern. evident. Yeah, and it was totally like, wait a minute. But you're like, you're just, you literally ignored everyone else in the world that is already weird.

That is how all of the greatest tech products have been launched. Yeah. Yeah. Anyhow, so that's the thing is you're going to talk to a robot. No, you're going to talk to an intelligent assistant. And then talk to a robot. And so the big demo was Cortana. You can talk to Cortana.

And it was, it's integrated into Skype, one of their canvases. Yeah. So their canvases for all this bot stuff is Slack, Skype. Skype. Kick, K, telegram, WhatsApp, down the line. So you were like, in a voice chat in Skype, and they said the name of a conference,

and the woman was like, book me room with this conference, and Skype was like, oh, the one that your friend was talking about on these dates, so I remember the dates. It went out, Cortana went out to the web, found the Westin bot, because Cortana knows that that person was a Westin frequent person. Talked to the Weston bot.

The Weston bot was like, do you want these rooms? the person was like, sure, and I all got booked. And it was just like a voice or a text typing conversation in Skype. And that rolled out to Skype today, I think. Well, and the thing that was actually crazier is they didn't be like, we could do this someday in the future. Like, you can do this right now.

Here are all of the tools to make this happen. And then they had like Dominoes come out on stage and show how it, like, created a pizza bar. Dominoes will do anything to get you an order of fucking pizza. Like anything. It's ridiculous. They're like, are you, do you like gimmicks? Here's another gimmick.

Please, God, order a pizza. Do you think they're doing okay? I mean, they have engineers putting Domino pizza ordering on every platform imaginable. When was the last time you ordered Domino's pizza? I've no idea. I'm a Papa John's girl from going that route. They're real bad at sausage, though. Interesting.

Papa John's has so much sugar in it that it's addictive. That's my theory. Because it's really sweet. You're right. Yeah. I'm a sugar freak. It's like eating Cheetos. Yeah.

Cheetos are so sugar in. sugary that you can't not eat more of them? Because your body's like, what if we don't get more fuel? Yeah. And also, you know, the garlic sauce. Yeah, there's that. By what method did you order your last Papa John's pizza? Oh, man.

On their site. Actually, this is really funny. I missed the cutoff time because obviously I was very drunk. And the Papa John's near me closes at like three or something. And I was on their site like designing my pizza and it has like the little graphics, like the little like the little like. items like drop onto the pizza and you're like, oh, half or the whole. And I don't know what style of crust.

And I was spending too much time making it. So then the order like didn't go through. But then in the morning, I got a confirmation email when they opened at like 10 in the morning. And I had to call them and was like, I don't need this pizza anymore. This happened at my birthday party. I'm sober now. Oh, really? Yes.

It was very bad because at 7 a.m. They, probably Johns opens at 7 a.m. And they called my wife. Yeah. And my wife was like, do you? Wait, still want this? 7 a.m. Yeah, what is it doing?

Why? Why? Then I think to make breakfast pizza. If there was a mass market breakfast pizza, that would be next level. What goes out of breakfast pizza? And these are people who are just like still drunk? Yeah. What's the food where like they take some bread and they crack an egg over cheese?

If you're still rolling at 7 a.m. I'd as well eat some pizza. There's some hot, cool new food where it's like a bread bowly thing and then then you put a bunch of cheese on it that it's like wicked hot and then you just crack an egg over it and then the egg cooks in the hot cheese and everybody eats it. Whoa. I don't know. It's like the eaters.

all over it. Oh my god. Really? Yeah. I've been reading about Dora Loco's I need eater, which sounds completely insane. Well, it's a Dora Loco. It's a Mexican's, uh, Mexico City street food where they cut open a bag of Doritos. Yeah.

Like a, so I'm just getting into it. They cut up in a bag of burritos. Yeah. And they put in like hot sauce and gummy bears and pork rinds. Gummy bears, key element of the Dora Loco's. Oh yeah, no, of course. This is disgusting. No, hot sauce, hot sauce and Doritos and gummy bears sounds great.

Deeter stoned. I don't know. Sure. Anyway, but they've been covering the hell out of that too. Yeah. All right, well, we got to... Wait, how do you... Why are we not talking about?

How do you, like, go deep on whatever that street food is? Like, how much coverage can you possibly do it? It's all over, man. Their headlines, like, you have to try this. And then it's, like, 1,500 words. Wow. It's incredible. They're, like, list of...

How do we go deep on, like, Linux coming to... It's the same thing. It's all the same. Everyone's just... Avocato toast? We don't remember that. I mean... Yeah, but it's not like...

I miss the whole lot of... I'm just the whole lot of... ...on the street is like, yo, check out this way you can use Linux. We're not like... What are you? You don't know that for a fact? I mean, is this not what this...

Didn't you see this with some Mexican street food? Yeah, it's a Mexico City street food. It's like sweep in the nation. Okay. This nation. Our nation now. Okay, it's coming... I see.

Yeah. Because it's one of those, like, Mexico City is like so hot right now. And people... I actually have a best friend who lives there and I send her photos of every person I know who is constantly... At any given time, there's one person on my Instagram feed in Mexico City. So I send them to her.

It's like a running bit. And yeah, so they're like bringing back the cool stuff and getting excited by it. Do they, are they super into Linux on Windows? We're totally off bots. It's funny how hard it is to talk about bots, but then how easy it is to talk about bots. Yeah.

Go ahead. So I can imagine sometimes occasionally wanting to do my business by like texting some bot. It sounds like you're buying drugs, man. Which... Great bodack to me. No, but seriously, like, how often do they imagine people using this? Like, is this the, like, this is the total UI of the future.

This is the only thing you ever use to get stuff done. I think what it is... It's like VR for Facebook. This is why I brought up Facebook earlier. Facebook's big bet was we missed out on owning the mobile platform. We colonized the app layer. We have to own the next platform. So they bought Oculus.

They think VR is that. next major platform can bots possibly be? I mean, when... Like mobile is like you do most stuff on mobile potentially. I think the idea is that to get to the next, to get most people download zero apps a month. Yeah. That's the number.

So getting onto the home screen, which is the game in mobile, is impossible. And Casey actually has been, he's been writing around sort of the main story. He's been writing big stories that connect to this central thesis for a, a while. So he wrote the story about bots, which everybody should go read. Yes. And then he wrote a story about the economics of the app store, which are killing mid-sized developers. So if you can't get on the home screen and bots, everyone in Silicon Valley's money is going towards bots, well, why would you spend money building apps? Because you're not going to get funded. You might not even get an audience. The dynamics of the app store bad. You have to pay Apple 30% tax.

Why wouldn't you say to every other company, every other service, hey, come build your bot on Windows. in the Windows platform, put it in the Azure Cloud Service. And then if the person's on kick, if they're on Slack, if they're in any of the other WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, wherever they are, you can just talk to them. They'll just be there. And you can just, the user can type in the words, I need a rental car.

And an intelligent assistant will say, I talk to Avis, Hertz, whatever, whatever. Here are the prices for all the rental cars. Yeah. But so all the use cases for bots that everybody demos are like that kind of thing. I need to rent a car, I need to book hotel, need to get a flight, need to order a pizza. And, like, those are all things where, like,

you want to look at the options, I feel like, and, like, the people that don't, that are just, like, yeah, just give me a flight, whatever. I feel like there's, like, there's some sort of, like, I don't know if it's, like, money. Like, I, like, want to figure out the exact right time and the exact price, but if I'm, like, too cool or too rich or too busy,

I will let a bot handle it. But the question is, like, does everybody want to think that way? Does everybody want to interact with the stuff, the services that we use that way? I mean, so the other big example that everybody else, because Slack is getting big into it, and then Facebook's F8 conference is coming up,

and it's highly rumored that Facebook is going to announce a huge bot initiative at F8. Everyone has always telling me that I'm going to do my expenses in Slack by just, like, talking to a bot. I have no desire to do that. But just because you have no desire to do your expenses. That would be better. I just input an expense earlier,

and like I have to open concur, concur. Concur. It's a good thing concur is to crash three times. Then I'm going to correct 12 errors. It's a good thing concur is in our ad today. Concur, the most. garbage software you can have. No, but like, if I could just message Slackbot and be like, I spent like $12

on whatever and then it just fired that off, that would be easier. Yeah. Well, so the way I think about it is the Echo, right? The Echo is an intelligent system that is connected to a wide range of bots. Right. But instead of typing at it, I'm always talking on it. But so the thing is, is the Echo talking to bots yet? Like, it's definitely talking to APIs.

Like, if I say, Hey, Echo, hey Alexa. Hey, Alexa, play some Eagles on Spotify. Oh, you know, I found the thing. Then it's going to, like, Alexa figures it out. It doesn't ask a bot to figure out. It says, hey, Spotify, give me this thing. And Spotify just does it. There's no, like, bots aren't smart.

They're not intelligent, but they're smarter than just, like, play me this song. And so at what point do you need more than an API? You actually need a bot that's able to, like, figure out language and figure stuff out. We use CF bot all day long. It's a bot. It just gets stuff for us. It just remembers. It remembers random stuff.

Custom SlackBot. Yeah, it's designed to basically return GIFs that we want to save, like, grushing it. Lauren Grush interviewed astronauts while they were in space over video. She did a video chat with astronauts in the space station. Put up the video today. It's very good. You should definitely watch it. And from that, we now have the term grushing it.

Yeah. Which is great. And a bot can get that for you. Is that a bot activity? Is that a macro? I used to have tech. Text Expander. Yeah.

Text Expander or bots? You can't talk about bots without like getting into this insane existential crisis about what does it mean to be a smart thing that uses it down a computer? Right. I don't know. I just, I am, I am enthralled with the idea of being in a world of contextual information. Right. Where I can just announce that I would like things to happen and automation makes it all happen for me.

Oh, so you want, you, you want your job currently as editor-in-chief of the verge. I would like to replace all the rest of your life. Yes. I want this thing to happen and then I go do it. You want that to apply everything else. Yes. Every computer would be as graceful and capable as Dieter Bone. That would be fucking terrific.

But no. Like, right now they're all I do. Like, here's what I challenge any, anyone listening to this. Get an Amazon Echo to play the band Night Moves. You can't do it. It won't do it. It will play the fucking box. Seeger song night moves at you until you are dead.

Like, it's awful. And then have a friend get a little drunk and try to play the band night moves on your Amazon act goes. It's impossible. Like, they're just not smart enough. And I think what we're talking about is adding the intelligence there to like contextually know what you want. You know, when this podcast gets released, an Amazon engineer, you know what he's going to be doing? Yeah.

You know what he's going to do? He's going to play the bad night moves. He's going to be working on the night moves. I just killed the entire podcast. Building a website can be tough, even if you do know your way around coding. And creating something that looks good and works well is a time-consuming affair. Whether it's for your business site, a portfolio, a restaurant, whatever else, in this day and age, you probably need a website just to set up your forthcoming bot company. Well, lucky for us, Squarespace makes it easy to build beautiful websites without breaking a sweat.

Squarespace provides simple, powerful, and beautiful websites that look professionally designed regardless of your skill level, no coding required. Not only does Squarespace survive you with an intuitive and easy-to-use tool to create your website. Squarespace also has state-of-the-art technology powering your site to ensure security and stability. And, and you know you can trust Squarespace for your website needs when millions of people and some of the most respected brands in the world trust Squarespace as well. You wouldn't want anything bad to happen your website, would you? No. You should get Squarespace. Seriously, look, you can't beat the ease and simplicity of Squarespace.

They give you 24-7 online support. They give you a beautiful website. They'll probably give you a hug. if you're feeling down, send your birthday card. So look, what the hell are you waiting for? Start a trial with Squarespace. There's no credit card required. You can start building your website today.

When you decide inevitably to choose the best website provider in the world, Squarespace, just use the offer code, Verge. V-E-R-G-E. You get 10% off. You'll support our show. You'll save a little money. And you'll show you, you know, that you love us. We thank Squarespace for their support of the Verge has,

and encourage you to use that code. Alexa, play night moves. All right, so we had two massive reviews this week. Yes. You reviewed the iPad Pro. Yes, I did. In Pouquito. Yep.

And Addie reviewed the Oculus Swift. Talk to me about this iPad. It is an iPad. No, but that's a meaningful statement because Apple wants to tell you that it's a full computer. Yeah. And I think it's an iPad. And I think that an iPad is a different thing than a phone or a computer. That was how Steve Jobs set it up when he announced the very first one.

He was very clear. This is not a phone. This is not a computer. This is a third thing. And I think it continues to be that third thing. I think it's an incredibly good third thing. I think it's a stupendously good iPad. I think it costs too much.

It's $5.99 for the 32 gig. If you're going to spend, like if you are only going to use this thing for very specific, like watching movies and doing some gaming or whatever, you could probably get the 32 gig. But you probably want to spend, I think it's $150 more to get $128 gig. So now you're looking at $750. Yeah. And if you're spending at $7.50, you're like, well, if I'm spending it, In 750, I should really get the keyboard of the pencil, so I'm justifying, like, all the extra stuff you're supposed to be able to do with this thing.

Keyboard's 150. You can probably get, you know, a Logitech for 100. You know, now you're at 850. Like, you are full on spending two or $300 more than a pretty good Windows laptop, and you're spending, like, MacBook territory to kit this thing up to the right price. Let me ask you the really hard question. I mean, whatever. Everybody, we've been talking about, Nicola. Yes. Is anything about the iPad Pro, big, small, made you even remotely into an iPad? No. Do you think the iPad is the most exciting thing in tech? What is the most exciting thing? Nicholas sits right biased to have. What's the most exciting thing that you've seen float by the office lately?

Oh, my God. I think, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Well, I have some ideas. I think we have a VR cave. Yeah, that's cool. That's amazing.

It's still like baby stages in my humble opinion. No, that's fine. But like, it's cool, but it's like, yeah, all right. We're like, do it. It's like over there. Like, Adi today put me, she put, me another headset. I'm like, played around. I played a fun game with a flashlight and a gun and zombies killed me. It was like awesome. That was really cool. The bot stuff to me is fascinating.

The echo stuff to me is fascinating. Apple is like, will this replace your laptop? And I don't understand it. They're not in any of these like next generation games. And that traditionally isn't Apple. But Apple is usually content to let people like fumble around. And then they're like, they swoop in. They swoop in. They're like, we made all of the mistakes. and we're going to make the right one. I feel like it's very different for Apple now because in the past it had the luxury of waiting around because it was this very small company

and didn't have these grand expectations. Now it is making enormous, ungodly sums of money. Yeah. And if one of them starts to slip, which could happen kind of at any moment, it's going to need to have something to point to and say, look, we're working on this, we're working on this and that.

And I feel like that's why we're starting to see these things like it's hoping to get the iPad to turn into this really successful laptop. It's like working on a car because why not? Yeah, but the car, the car to me is everyone needs to be, you know, like Apple wants to make a car. And they want to make a car because they're, do you trust Apple to make a car right? No. I don't trust them. Yeah.

I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about that actually. Like in regards to like the Apple Watch. Like they had the wrong ideas about how the watch should work. Yeah. And what, like, and what they should focus on and what was important and what they should try and do and what was the right ambition and on and on and on and on. And I just like, I don't know. I don't know what, like, what's their big idea?

What's Apple's big idea for the car? Like they didn't have a great big idea for the Apple watch. There's a great big idea for the iPad. There's a great idea for the iPhone. I go down the list of everything that was great about Apple when they released a great product. There's a great big idea for the retina MacBook. Yeah. What's the great big idea for an Apple car?

I don't know yet. Right. And I'm worried that there isn't one. And I, it's, well, it's hubris. Right. It's, it's Apple. So to Jake's point, Apple had the luxury for decades of being in competition with Microsoft. And just like, think about that.

Microsoft was the behemoth. They were old. They were slow. They were uncool. They were the business software company. They couldn't get out of their own way. They consistently released crappy. consumer products, save the Xbox.

I mean, they were a joke. And they were, Bill Gates is, like, actively not cool. Cool now, you know, he's, he's, like, aged into a very, very fine cool. But, like, Bill Gates in that moment was, he was the evil empire who wanted to kill everybody with his henchman Steve Balmer. Right. Apple was the upstart. They were the cool one.

They were the consumer company. They built computers or creatives. They had better taste than Microsoft. The problem is, all the new companies were raised in the shadow of Apple. They're raised in the shadow of Steve Jobs. They have taste. They know that taste is valuable. So Apple's delta of coolness is much smaller.

I know, Nicola, does that sound insane? No, I hear what you're saying. My favorite game to play right now is when I'm watching television or whatever is in that realm, you know, is seeing which computer paid to be on which show. Apple never pays. Wait, but they don't they have to cover the logo then? Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't bother. Because on House of Cards, I'm like, I know they don't use Apple computers of the White House.

I know that. No, Obama uses an iPad. My stepbrother works there, and he definitely doesn't use an Apple computer. Yeah. No, I mean, there's Windows laptops, but like when I interviewed the First Lady, I was like, oh, you have a iPhone. And she was like, we all sell BlackBerrys. They all have two. Yeah.

Yeah. She was very frustrated because my first question to her, the First Lady, was your husband came in office as a Blackberry president. and now it's like eight years later that sounds not good and she's like we stole block queries yeah I think I'm pretty sure my I'm pretty sure my stepbrother has a work work Blackberry yeah we I text him on an iPhone right I message him no I mean I think there's the there's the cool factor it's still Apple they're still cool they do the best marketing they make tremendously good products right but that thing where they're going to let some bad competitor make not cool products for a while to explore the

market so that Apple can fix all their mistakes and swoop in with a good product. I don't know if you can say that about Facebook and VR. Like the Oculus Rift, segueing into this next review, early product beautifully designed. Like is basically the iMac of VR headsets in this moment, right? And it's, what is Apple going to do with that concept except slightly tweak it around the edges? They're not going to say, you made all these mistakes. They can't be like creative. You made shitty MP3 players for a long time and now we made the iPod.

There isn't a jump to be made in that zone that's quite as big. Right. Like, what are they going to do? What is Apple going to be able to think up and pull off that Tesla hasn't? Right. Besides, like, actually manufacturing its guy. I mean, Tesla's having a launch event today, and the launch event is for a prototype. Yeah.

Do you see that people are waiting in lines around the car? The waiting lines of Priorya car that they haven't seen. Right, and maybe you'll wait in line of Priored. I don't know. It's just when you think about the iPad, the iPad Pro, it's Apple. it's Apple still just in its own. They're saying, here we make computers. The computer comes in the size that fits in your hand.

It comes in a size that sits on your desk. We make every size that sits between. And this one in the middle, well, all these people with old PCs, maybe this is the reason that you'll start to buy an Apple computer. Right. And like you can get, this is the same thing we've always been saying about Apple computers. You can get 90% there. And it's the last 10% that kills you.

If Apple put a good web browser on anything, I would use that thing. If they put desktop safari on that computer. Yeah. Which it absolutely has the power. Yeah, it renders stuff faster than like most Chromebooks. Like there's a reason I can sit around and say, I can use a Chromebook for all my jobs. It's because Chromebook shows me the desktop web, which is the most powerful sort of display of the web. Right.

But that thing is like, what if it was an iPhone but bigger? So the iPad's fixed for not having that. It said, oh, there's apps. But the problem with apps is like none of all, all of more updated to support the iPad yet. Maybe that'll be fixed someday. But even then, like, somebody's going to come up with something cool and, like, we'll have to wait for the app to get updated on the iPad. Whereas on a computer, you'll just do it. Yeah.

And like this thing, when I say it's like, this isn't a computer. It's a computer, but it's a computer that fundamentally is limited by iOS. And to be clear, like, this is the zone where, like, I am an old crotchety man who wants my file system and my windows and my desktop. And Walt Mausberg is like, the young kid living in the future. He's like, yeah, you don't need that. You don't need that stuff. It's fine. I was editing Waltz Review, and he called me an old man in the comments a hundred times.

He's thoroughly enjoyed. enjoying himself. Yeah. Nicola, have you tried on a VR, one of our VR headsets yet? Yeah, which one?

Remember I played the game, I picked, I was in the office. Oh yeah. Have you done anything else? No. Oh, no, I played the light, the game where you paint with light.

Oh yeah. Have you seen the Oculus yet? I don't think so. You gotta go try it. The Oculus is, it's the one. It's the one you gotta try. Okay. Have you played with the Oculus?

I haven't played with the Oculus. I thought the Vi was the one you got to try. It's amazing. Well, vibe's amazing, but we have like the old vibe. Yeah. The like pre. Yeah.

How much does it change? Pre-posts. Well, no, the consumer one is going to have a camera that works. Oh, right. You can do the see-through. Yeah. The vibe's amazing. I think the Oculus is kind of amazing.

Lacking the controllers. So you've got to read Adi's review. You got to look at the photos of Adi in the way. They look amazing. They're so beautiful. Yeah. The images are so beautiful. That's all I looked at.

I think that's all anybody looked at. Because they're like astounding. You should read it, too. She also read it. It's really good. But her takeaway was so close, still so far. Right? Like, Oculus didn't ship its controllers, which are the things, and I don't think I really understood this. You can't use your hands and have your hands in VR. You're just kind of looking at stuff with an Xbox controller in your hand. Yep. And Oculus needs to get best. The other thing that I think is interesting is that the Oculus platform is already fragmented. So if you have a gear VR, there's stuff on Gear VR that you can't get an Oculus Rift.

Oh, geez. Like crazy. That's already a problem. But it's amazing. And if you have aliens. So Gear VR, those are all just Android apps, though, versus Steam VR, which is all. Right. Sorry, that's the Vive.

I guess the desktop is all Windows games. Yeah, it's very confusing. But like, Samsung Milk VR. That's not an Oculus thing, though. It's just Samsung's thing. It's just Samsung's thing. but you get it in Gear VR, which runs Ocule,

which has Oculus branding on it. Right. But you can't get it on the Oculus, which has Oculus branding on it. Right. It's very confusing. It's already fragmented. They already kind of messed it up in that way.

Now, obviously, there's games you can get in the Rift that you should be able to get on the phone, but I think everyone understands that. It's the other way around that's confusing. Anyhow, that's it. That's the Oculus Rift. You got an 8 out of 10 on the verge. Go read the review.

All right, we have a lightning round. Ready? Ready? Oh, we already talked about SoundCloud. Oh, Jake. The Jucerra Wi-Fi-connected smart juice. Oh, shit. Wait, do I have a lightning is or can I tell you something?

You got to do the whole thing. Go deep. People have been tweeting at us about it. Wait, am I explaining this? You should explain it because people might not know. There's also a full report on this on Racked. Oh, really? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, because it's the organic avenue guy. Yeah. This thing is insane. It is a $700 juicer that you can't actually put your own food in. You have to buy, with a weekly subscription, you get, like, packets of fruits and vegetables. So it's like an evil, evil currig or distresses. Yes, yes. It's basically like currig, but instead of like coffee grounds, you get like fresh fruits and vegetables.

And listen to this. Do they come in like proprietary pods? No, isn't it like bags? Juice packets? Like, isn't the little packet? They're in like packets, yeah. Yeah. Are they frozen, right?

No. Is it all the packets? Okay. So listen to this. Okay. If they're only like guaranteed fresh for six days, put it in the juicer on day seven, it won't make it. What? Yeah, it won't make it for you because it's expired.

No. I understand like you can't look at the vegetables to like if it's like, you know, if you accidentally grab one that's pretty old, that makes sense. But like, I don't know. I bet it would be good at the same day. But these are probably non-HPP, so it's not pasteurized. So like when it's bad, it's really fucking not okay to drink. Right. No, that's true.

is true. But like, I don't know. How much is a packet cost? Between $4 and $10. Okay. And each packet makes one glass of juice. Um, so it's, it's, it's just extremely, how does luxury? They have raised, super luxury. They have raised $100 million in venture capital funding. What? Yeah. The design was consulted on by Johnny Ive. No. Yes. Yes. No. And it turns bags of liquid into cups of juice. Well, it's not liquid though. It's not yet liquid. No, it is full, okay, it's like chopped up fruits and vegetables that they just throw in their whole. Yeah. For a similar but more DIY experience, I would suggest you look into daily harvest, which will send you little frozen cups or you're

ready to go for smoothies. Okay. Do you have a side deal? No, I'm just trying to share my information. Do you get a piece of your daily harvests must? Oh, this juice. I just think that like they're doing the same thing where it's like you get, it's organic and... Niccolo, do you want your website to stay safe? Because I recommend that if you come into my show and you drop your daily harvest SponCon that me and my Squarespace people get a cut of that shit. I believe in them.

I believe in you too, Daily Harvest. If you want to know about healthy food startups, I got that. If you would like to have further mentions on the Vergecast, you can contact Voxadvertising at voxmedia.com. When did SpondCon become a thing that everybody knew what it meant except for me. I had to look it up. Sponsored content.

On the all ages ago. God damn it. Yeah. Matt. Matt Buchanan. I don't trust you. I got to say, the Jucero.

Amazing name. Ridiculous, over-the-top stupid idea. Jucerro's a terrible name. It sounds like a, a cut rate. Like, when the comic book guy

runs out of, like, villains that he can think of to fight Spider-Man, he's like, wait, I got it. Jucero. Now, Jucero sounds like a

1970s Chevy vehicle with a Yes. You know what I mean? Oh, it's the Drusero. Actually related, I'm really sick of every company having like a cute name and I think authenticity is going to

come back and it would just be called like Digital Juice. Like whatever the fuck it would be. Digital Juice? Well, it's like juice but like it's in this machine. Digital Juice is a super shitty dance band in Wilkesburg. Wait, really? No, it should be.

Yeah, output every Saturday. Yeah, Digital Juice and output. They've got a residency. It's really just them from seven to ten before the real event shows. They have the two o'clock to three o'clock. Crucial. End of the night, you know. Hype check jucero.

I would call it definitely ostentatious and I guess it's elegant. But like, what the fuck? I check the concept of Microsoft. I don't know what that means. Microsoft is a brand. I need like a heavy definition. Just Microsoft. Microsoft.

Practical draft? Yeah. Yeah. They're coming out of it, though. They're going to put bots everywhere. Amazon Dash. That's exciting. For 100 brands, including Doritos and Trojan.

I didn't do it. Yeah, no, it's good. I still think it's dumb that you have to, like, pick the brand to get the button. You can't just get the button and, like, then pick the brand. You should have a generic dash button that you can, like, plug it into your, plug it into your computer and be like, I want to have it do this thing. If there's a single button. And next you can have an LCD screen and Doritos at once.

The young brand. A random Xbox. It's the Yum Brands button. It orders Doritos. It like fires Taco Bell at you. Trojan actually sent us the Dash button. Oh yeah? They sent us the Trojan Dash button.

And everybody in the office was like, oh my God, it's a Trojan Dash button. Ha ha ha ha. And they're like, oh wait, this is a really good idea. We should write about it. And then we did. Yeah. Are you supposed to have like a drawer full of these

at some point in time where it's just like every brand and thing that I like. You're supposed to stick a thing where you do the thing. Right. So like on your nightstand. There's a Trojan button. Wait, hold on. In two days, we can do this, but not right now. Could you imagine?

Best first date ever. It's like you open the medicine. You know, you're like in the bathroom. You open the medicine cabinet. And you're like, oh, wow, he's a, that, that. Wow, he needs a button for that. This fucking responsible and also lazy nerd. That was what I would think.

Yeah, but look, if you, if you can save all that extra time. Yeah. Then they're going to spend more time with you. Yeah. That's sweet. That's kind of a good relationship. Now I have more time to spend with you because I'm not busy at Dwayne Reed buying condoms

in person. Well, that's the end of the dash lighting around. There we go. Title has 3 million subscribers. How? Because of people like me who are accidentally subscribed because they forgot to cancel. This really is right in the next one. Kanye West going to Spotify, Apple Music, other services.

Tomorrow, we believe. Soon. Yeah. His song famous is. I was looking at new releases on Spotify before the SoundCloud thing happened to me. And I was like, wait, what? I didn't know. I didn't realize I could listen to that here.

Yeah, who's surprised by this? Zero people. Snapchat redesign. It's fun. Wow, it does a lot of stuff. Yeah. Too much stuff. So much stuff.

I was, who was in the elevator? I literally saw somebody in the elevator here who works a different vertical, and I was like, hey, how's it going? And they looked at me, accusatory. And they were like, I hate the way Snapchat works now and, like, walked away. I was like, I... Can you still, do they still have snap cash? No, do they?

Because sometimes if you start... Maybe. If you start typing like dollar sign 14 or something like, it'll be like, do you want to pay? Mm-hmm. So you could like call someone, pay them? I called Sam Schaeffer the other day. He picked up while he was writing. That's the only person you can call.

We had a huge freak out because like you can call someone now and you need to like... Don't say it. They're going to figure it out. We fixed it. Oh, we did? You dig deep in the settings and you can turn off the ability to be called, but we didn't find it right away. And so Kirsten was like snapping on the verge account and all of a sudden like the phone just starts ringing with lots of our followers calling us up.

Had to deal with that. Whoa. Can I defend the Snapchat thing? Yes. Do you want me to do it in the most nerdy way possible or the least nerdy way possible? The most nerdy way possible, please. Back in the days of Windows Mobile 5. The interface was garbage, but there was a company called SPB and they made an app called SPB Mobile Show.

Oh, SB Mobile Show was the shit. the bomb. It was the only thing good about Windows mobile. It gave it a touch interface and blah, blah, blah, blah, and so they started adding a bunch of, like, whizbang features to it. You could, like, circle the cube around and, like, reorder the stuff, and I, like, I went to them. Yeah. You could gleam the cube around. Why is there, why do you have so much crap? Like, there's too many features on this thing. You need to go back to the old days when it was a little bit simpler. And I said, look, we've discovered, we like, we watch, we test users using our software. We, like, get analytics. And basically any software, when people, people open it, at least half of their time is spent just like plinking around and like doing stuff. It's not like actually like getting the thing done you want to get done. It's like poking around and having fun and like trying some stuff out. And so Snapchat having all these crazy features you know how to do them, it's not a productivity app. It's not like Microsoft Word where you need to know where that bold button is or how to make a list. It's designed to like play around with. So like, then you just spent a ton of time in there. Right. So they're doing it so that you're like just like

like poking around and having fun and seeing what's going on. It's not actually designed to be easy to use. It's designed to make you play around with it. I literally could not write it post at Windows Mobile for five years without somebody angrily emailing me that all of my problems would be solved by SBB Mobile Show. They were right. I mean they were so mad at me all the fucking time. Oh, you hate Windows phone or Windows Mobile. You're such a fan boy. Why don't you just install and configure this weird third-party utility that will solve all your problems? It was great. that's what reviewers should talk about. This product sucks, but if you buy another product,

this product will get better. It's funny how angry that made me. Instagram getting algorithmic feed, triggering thirst crisis across Instagram. Oh my goodness. What a thing that was. That was Monday, I think. It was a little fun start.

That was crazy. People were really, like, freaking out and begging. They were begging. They were begging to be followed on Instagram. It was a bad day on Instagram. It was a bad day. Instagram rolled it back that they said it's not. change too soon.

Yeah. But they have to change it. It was kind of cool to have like the people be loud though and be like, fuck, I don't want this. Here's what I will say. And I love Instagram and I love the people and I love the people. And if you're not following us Instagram, please join Instagram, follow us. I'll love you.

The Instagram user base, the, the least informed about technology, policy, anything, user base. Totally. You can rile them up. But seeing them like get like all like furious and like say the word. Like Kylie Jenner wrote the word algorithm. I'm pretty sure on Instagram. Like, that's a crazy day. That's a crazy day.

The HoloLens on our Instagram right now. Yeah, our Instagram's really good. You should subscribe to our Instagram. But it's a crazy day. And it is the most conspiratorial of all of the social networks in my mind where it's like people post Instagram pictures and like, you know how Facebook chains are bad?

They're like, I hear by revoke Facebook's copyright to my posts. So sayeth the king. It's like, what are you doing? Like, please aren't. It's like nonsense. Instagram is even worse. but in the craziest pockets.

It's really crazy. Instagram, man. All right. Instagram algorithm. All right. Yeah. I don't fear it. I don't follow that many people,

so like I feel like it's not going to affect me. Oh, Instagram is crazy. If you fall down the Instagram hole, seeing which, you should follow us on Instagram, we're at Verge. You should follow us, I'm wrapping the show right now.

It's just happening. You should follow us on Twitter. Right at Verge. Snapchat, Verge. Hit us upon iTunes. Give us the five stars. That'd be great. What's Tech?

That happens with Chris Plant on Tuesdays. Control alt delete hits on Thursdays with Walt. Verge ESP happens on Fridays, Emily and Liz. There's a cavalcade of recad podcast that you should listen to. Good word. Yeah, that's good word. Alexa, play the Eagles. You can find us on YouTube.com. You can search for the broadcast there. Jake is Jake underscore K on Twitter. Dieter's back lawn. I'm reckless. Nicola, what's your preferred social venue of choice these days? Wow. No, I'm going to stick on Twitter. Nicola underscore Fumo. Yeah, you can get her there. And then I want to tell you something, and this is why I wanted the Eagles to play.

So if you're not playing the Eagles, this is the time. I want to tell you, this is advertising now. I want to tell you a book about a book called The Last Victim. The Last Victim. The Last Victim. Kevin O'Brien. It's been years since they've been reminded that horrible night from high school. A night they've been able to keep secret.

Until now. Because someone has figured it out. Someone who has been picking off members of their old clique one by one. Find out for the truth for yourself. reading The Last Victim. The latest suspense-filled throwlade from New York Times Wrestling author. Kevin O'Brien. Jesus, dear.

The Last Victim. Is on sale now, wherever books are sold. Visit GengsingtonBooks.com for more information or... Kevin O'Brien.com. It's Kevin O'Brienbooks.com. Damn it. Anyway, that was our show. That was advertising, the method by which we are paid to produce a show for you.

So please buy the book. Sign up for a website. Do whatever the hell you have to do. I know, Nicholas got some fucking side deal with Some juice company. Just do that. Nope, don't do that. Just stay away from them.

You should have good smoothies. Juice responsibly. Goodbye. Rock and roll.