The Vergecast - Mac craziness, YouTube TV, and Project Scorpio

Episode Date: April 7, 2017

Hey! The Verge has brought you another episode of The Vergecast. This week we’ve got Nilay, Paul, Ashley, and Dieter talkin’ the tech talk to y’all: more specifically the future of Mac computers, Youtube TV, and the newest Android phones on the market. As always, Paul and Ashley share their gadget of the week, and Nilay makes fun of Dieter for wearing AirPods. Listen to the whole show for more. 02:50 - Apple working on “completely rethought” Mac Pro and pro display 28:30 - Paul’s weekly segment “Here’s a new phone!” 29:09 - Ashley’s weekly segment “Huh, this looks a lot like a beehive” 31:15 - YouTube TV 42:30 - HTC U Ultra, LG G6, and other Android phones 52:54 - Project Scorpio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Vergecast. The flagship podcast, this. Our website and media brand called The Verge, which is about technology, feelings, Mac pro feelings. It was an emotional week here at Theverge.com. Anyway, I'm here with you, the listener. All by yourself. Dieter Bone is here, as you may have noticed by his rude interruption. Hello, Dieter.

Oath. Oath is watching us at all times. Paul Miller's here. Listen at laugh. Hello. Where the hell have you been? I was on vacation. Yeah.

Where'd you go? You look good. You look rested. I went to Arizona. Yeah. But it's like a family vacation. So like, they were like, let's have day one of the vacation be Vergecast Day. Yeah.

And day seven of the vacation be Vergecast day. Yeah. You really run into that with those seven-day vacations. Yeah. But it's good. You're rested. I feel good. I feel wonderful.

You ready to have some audible. emotions with us. Absolutely. The Vergecast, the place is for audible emotions. Well, I missed it South by Southwest too, so I've been really missing you guys. Yeah, I've missed you too. Oh, by the way, Ashley Carman's here.

Hello. Our very favorite. How's it going, Ash? Good. Yeah? Yeah. What do you run up to? Reviewing cars, man.

I know. Your screen drive. Yeah, screen drive. For the listener, Ashley has been, you've written two of them now. She's reviewed two cars. The Elantra and the new five series. And the whole point of this series is to pretend that the rest of the car doesn't exist.

and to just hold the buttons and screens to the same standard as like tablets. And so Ashton and I were working on it and I was like, you need to be way meaner to this because it sucks. Yeah, it was too nice. Because they all suck. But I think that's like really interesting.

I really hope there is some car designer in Munich that was like... People have reached out. They're very interested in this series. Yeah. I think it's me a thing. We're single-handedly, Ashley's going to make the car industry better at technology.

I think it's a good effort. We put up with so much mediocrity in cars. Yes, because of the thing. Because you're like, I'm in a fancy car. It's rolling. Mm-hmm. It will protect me from death if I roll it incorrectly. The thing that Apple needed to do with the new iPad is just put some wheels on.

And then we would forgive everything about it. Just put some wheels on it. It's an iPad. It's also a car. That would be great at the last line of your review. Also, it's a car. I didn't mention that. Anyway, let's start with Apple.

That's a good place to start. So, Dieter, do you want to, I'm just going to offer you this. It's just for you, buddy. It's because I love you. Do you want to talk about your review of the iPad? Do you want to start in three words of that review? Sure. It's an iPad.

There you go. We're done. I knew it. No, let's start with the big Apple news. Because we reviewed a bunch of stuff this week. We'll go out a little bit later. Let's start with like the big crazy Apple. Totally out of character.

Very oddly disseminated information out of Apple this week. New desktop computer, who dis? Yeah. Apple. Yeah, it was strange. I mean, Paul, you and I have covered Apple together for a long time. Dieter, you and I have covered Apple together for a long time. Ashley, you're new to the crazy.

I'm new to the crazy. It's true. This is next level crazy. Yeah. It's not normal. It's the weirdestest thing since, like, they fired Scott Forrestall as far as, like, Apple, this is how Apple admits its mistakes. So Scott Forrestall they fired during, I believe, Hurricane Sandy.

So I was not, I had been a very. evacuated and they put out the press release while I was cowering in a hotel room waiting for other companies do like Friday news dumps Apple just waits for a natural disaster that's how they make sure but that's not what they did here so what they did here is they called in a bunch of excellent journalists I don't mean to denigrate them all they just like hand selected some great journalists called them all in Apple put them all in a room John Gruber John Pukowski uh Lance Eulenoff Ina Fried Matthew Panzerino Matt Panz and said and Panzerino published the entire transcript of this meeting today.

So I just read it on touch with. By the way, it's going to be really hard for me to focus because like every single so people read Apple statements. It's like Kremlinology. You know,

it's they speak in such a particular way and they've done it for so many years that reading between the lines of what they're saying is like there's a whole cottage industry of it. And if you've never been in a room with Apple, I'll just give you like the behind. behind the scenes thing and you can kind of see it here. Like, you will ask them a question, they'll give you an answer.

And like, in your head, you're like, man, that is really like eloquent and like well thought out and also incredibly carefully parsed. And so later on, you will, you know, ask the same question, but in a different way. And they'll give you literally word for word the exact same sentence. Like Apple, Apple executives would make the greatest like, I don't know, Broadway stars because they never forget a line. You never forget a line. They're good.

They're very good. Yeah. So seeing a whole transcript of like what as far as I can tell is a monumental, like, I don't want to say performance because like they are genuinely speaking. But like their ability to like not say we screwed up, but like have language that approaches it and keep talking about it for like a solid hour and not like screw up and like say something dumb. Like in this very podcast, we're going to talk for a solid hour. and I'm going to say like 15 self-incriminating things that make me look like an idiot and that never happens with Apple.

I shot him in. Anyway, shit. But talk about what it is before you get into the criminology. So Apple put out the Mac Pro in 2013. Phil Schiller stood on stage and said, Can't innovate my ass, which was not in the script.

And so like Apple PR at the time was like, I remember that very clearly. I don't know if you, I'm assuming our audience. and snows of a macro is. It's a cylinder. Inside the cylinder, there's a triangular core with GPUs on two sides and CPU on the third side. And there's a huge, slowly spinning fan on top.

And the whole idea was that dual GPUs would be the thing. There's thermally balanced heat. The slow fan pulls everything out at once. And Apple, as I'm sure everyone is aware, believes that external peripherals over semi-proprietary interconnects are the future of all computing. So they thought Thunderbolt 2 expansion would be the thing. None of that panned out. Actually, Paul, I want to hear your take on sort of what's up with GPUs.

Because it seems like they made this big bet on AMD parallel GPUs, and the whole world is living in Nvidia town now. Yeah, well, there was a time when, like, if you were going to go real crazy, you'd do, like, four GPUs. And that is just not, for whatever reason, I'm not exactly sure why, but the architecture has not worked out for lots of GPUs. And there's hardly anybody's even doing dual GPUs right now. You just don't get a huge performance benefit.

So it's mostly about one big GPU. But I mean, the whole problem is that the Mac Pro is a beautiful piece of engineering. Yeah. It's absolutely wonderful. The thing is... We've got them all over this office. All the added suites in the video studio are MacProw. There's just fundamental physics that if you want more power,

it's going to use more electricity and release more heat. Yeah. And the size of the Mac Pro and its layout does amazing job for what it does, but there's just a hard ceiling on how much heat you can basically have in that box. And yeah, the thing is, I don't know all the details, and I'm reading this transcript as well right now, but it's really easy for them to fix it. Yeah.

They could go to MicroCenter by a tower. Yeah. And the other news today, Nvidia just announced a new top-of-the-line graphics card. Wait, hold on. I feel like we keep on getting sidetracked by how much we want to talk about the thing, but we haven't yet fully said the thing. I'm sorry.

So, anyway, they put out this old MacProw in 2013. They haven't touched it in four years. It's been in the market for over a thousand days. Well, if they touch it, we'd get fingerprints on it. Yeah. And there's a lot of questions. When the new MacBook pros came out, there's a lot of consternation from the pro community.

people were mad about the escape key, they're mad about ports, and then everybody noticed, oh, and they haven't touched the Mac Pro at all either. And there were just a lot of questions. And basically what they said in this hour-long conversation was we saw a lot of pros moving to IMAX. We thought that was fine.

We didn't really know what to do with the Mac Pro, and then we realized sometime, unclear when they realized, that they couldn't do the highest-end applications in the Mac Pro in its current design. So they're going to put out a new modular MacPro. They kept on calling it modular. They're going to put out a new Apple-branded display.

And they told me when the MacBook Pro came out, Deeter and I were in a briefing, and they were showing off the LG 5K displays. And I said, does this mean you guys aren't making displays anymore? And basically the answer was, we're going to leave it to the people who do a better job. And they, like, gestured toward the LG. And, you know, Apple never, it wasn't like a hard answer,

but it was like, LG's doing better at this than we are. They stopped making or selling the Thunderbolt display, indicating that they had indeed stopped making displays or selling them based on their actions. But now the LG display had like the most comedy bad problem ever, which is that if it was near a Wi-Fi router, it stopped working, which I don't even know how you get that problem. And so now Apple's like, we're going to make a new Mac Pro and we're going to make a new display. We're going to get back in that game.

And it's going to come out not this year. But they wouldn't confirm next year. I mean, it's got to be next year, right? I don't know. I don't know. I'm refusing to confirm next year. Pansarino changed the story today because of what you said. They were very, very careful to not actually say next year.

All they would say is not this year, which is insanity to me. Because now it's a false point. My take on that is like the idea that Apple would ever give you like actual future information is so anathema to how they work. I mean, you could say first quarter next year. I mean, there's like way. You could say the second half of next year. I mean, there's all kinds of vague. 2018 is a vague amount.

You could just say next year. Yeah. It's a pretty big amount of time. It's literally, there's a year there for you to fudge the number. But to Paul's point, you could just go to Microsenter. Yeah. You could just build a hackintosh. Well, I mean, my roommate has a very old Mac Pro, and it's still super powerful because

it's a huge box that you can put powerful things inside of. But Nvidia just announced, so the same. Titan XP. It's like a super powerful graphics card. It's like $1,200, but it's got basically, except for the amount of RAM it has, it's way faster than their Quadro

6,000 or whatever, which is a $5,000 card. Yeah. So, Nvidia, and then AMD is about to come out with Vega. They're saying, they said first half of the year. They really committed. They're starting to push that. The rumor right now is maybe like May, like CompuTech's

well, so maybe that's the deal with Apple, right? They're waiting on AMD because they're really locked in the AMD as their component supplier. Yeah, but they're going to have stuff this year. And the AMD has great, great processors, too. I don't know if Apple will use that. But all that to say, Nvidia also announced beta Mac drivers, which only makes sense right now if you're using external GPU, which hardly anybody does, and it's not nearly... Or you build a Hackintosh. Or you build a Hackintosh. I like that Nvidia is just like on the sly. Like, we know what you're doing. We're aware of the situation. I mean, if...

If Apple's going to take a year to do this, there's plenty of time for AMD and NVIDIA to try to curry favor. Like, look how sweet and great our drivers are. Yeah. Look how good job we did drivers. I mean, Apple's AMD all through the line right now, off of the MacLand. I don't think they ship Nvidia anything. I don't think they do either.

Yeah, that's correct. But that bet. I mean, the whole point of this is Apple never does stuff like this. And I think the timeline here is just really confusing and weird. Reading a transcript, a lot of the questions were like, when did you realize that you screwed up? Because there's a four-year window of, hey, guys, this isn't working out the way that we thought it was. And they announced that they were going to build them in the United States. Like a lot of big decisions had to get made about what this computer, the next version will be, and where you're going to build it, and who's it for, and what GPU to use.

When, like, when did they decide? And they were like, you know, there was no meeting. and I just keep looking at that line. I'm like, yeah, there was. You're having a meeting right now about it and you had a meeting to plan what you were going to say. Right. When?

Because it's a year away. Like, it doesn't take eight months to build a tower PC. So why do you care so much when? When they made the decision? I think it reflects like fundamentally a problem in Apple's like structure, like decision-making structure. Like maybe they're really disconnected from people? Yeah, like no one noticed or they thought that these customers didn't matter and no one is responsible for advocating them or serving their needs. And everyone's so focused on like the phone and like the iPad Pro Marketing campaign or like whatever's happening over there that you could let you could let a four year old bet linger until your most passionate customers are mad at you so loudly that you're calling a meeting just to say we're sorry and sometime not this year.

we're going to have a new computer. Like Apple's a computer company. Like the idea of Apple producing a new computer should not be a surprise that warrants, right? Like every computer, like, Dell doesn't hold meetings. Being like, we're putting out a new inspiron sometime. Right? Like, that's what they're supposed to. That's their organizing principle.

So, like, I just think, like, this is a sign of the organization not, it's two, they're two matrix, right? They're like a functional group. They don't have, like, these product owners. That to me is that's why it's so interesting to me Like Craig Federee whenever was like Hey the Mac Pro thing is like it's not going great Like let's just put some new processors in a tower

And those people will be happy Which they could have made that decision at any time And it would have worked out great I don't know Dieter do you think it's not that dire No I mean like to me like the the interesting thing about it Is that the Mac Pro is a bummer Has been the conventional wisdom for two years and what the hell is going on with the Mac Pro and Apple and the pro market has become like, I don't know, like an existential question for the last year, or at least since the new MacBook pros came out.

When I was like, huh, this is not this, no, this is not what we want. So for me, the question is like, when did they decide that they needed to do this? and the reason the when matters is did they not know the conventional wisdom two years ago? And are they just like, are they like whiplash reacting to like the last six months of like concern and angst? Or are that, you know, was this like, has this been the plan for a while? But they waited until the angst got really bad before they told us. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I just, there's a line. I think it's Federigi says in this transcript. You know, I would say we start talking about like six. months ago. It's like six months ago? You could have held this meeting six months ago and been like not next, you know, like something about this, the timeline of the decision and then the decision to release this information this way points to a structural issue inside of Apple that is, I think, very interesting only because Apple prides itself at seeing around the corner faster. They're like, you don't need headphones. Use these AirPods that theater's wearing, right? Like, that's their

whole game and they just didn't see around the right corner with the Mac Pro. And it's, that to me is a more interesting thing. Like I don't, I'm using an old MacBook Pro. Well, maybe this is a good transition to another corner that they're looking around, which is making their own GPUs. Oh yeah. That's a thing. Oh, yeah. And what's it? Imagination is like basically like, I don't, I don't need you, but I do need your money. I was reading the Hacker News comments on this. The patents around GPUs are apparently like crazy. Yeah. And it's really hard market to get into.

So I think it'd be interesting. I would love like a Tesla style, like a company that get into the GPU market and then open up its IP so to make the whole market more open. Not, I don't think Apple's going to do that in any way. Because there's a lot of room for innovation in GPUs. Like the CPU kind of keeps on getting more. I just watched this really good KC.

Murtory tutorial on how GPUs actually work. But like the CPU basically continues to get more like GPUs with like wide instruction sets. And the GPUs get more like CPUs so like more able to do compute tasks and like generic computing.

But they're still like on two ends and there's nothing like really in the middle. There's so much room for innovation and like you know more like imagine something like an intel type graphics where you have one set of RAM addressed by boat so you don't have to copy back and forth over a bus. But I don't know.

There seems to be tons of room for innovation. And somebody vertically integrated like Apple really has the most chance to shake that up. Yeah. But they're only going to do it in their phone. Probably just in their phone. For me, the GPU and the iPhone thing is like, oh, do you feel like you have to do that because the off-the-shelf stuff or the imagination stuff is not up to what you are actually hoping to do in augmented reality? Like, that to me is what that's about. I do want to go back just briefly to the Mac Pro and connect it up to the Galaxy S8, which is a weird thing to say.

Interesting. The new Mac Pro will have a dog butler that listens to your every word. There was a period of at least five years where the default assumption about Apple products was that they would be the most beautifully designed and Apple would make really good bets on the specs, the internals of it. And that default assumption was like completely correct, especially when you look at the iPhone, but also when you look at, you know, MacBook Airs and whatever else, they bet right on high-resolution displays. They bet incredibly wildly right on Arm and on like the way that processors on phones and then later tablets should get made.

Their phones look better than everybody else's. Their tablets still look better than everybody else's. And I think one of the reasons this Mac Pro thing is so, like, like terrifying to Apple is that default assumption of their infallibility when it comes to product design, both like the guts of it and the look of it, is going away or is now gone or is it the very least getting challenged. So like not a lot of people are super impressed with the touch bar on the MacBook Pro. We think that they screwed up with the Mac Pro and, you know, so do they. So do they like and you know the iPhone has had the same design for three years and sure whatever it still

is a great you know phone and we shouldn't want a brand new flashy design every year but you like they they have been out designed by Samsung the past two years now well the last at least they did last year this year if apple's iPhone 10 and iPhone anniversary whatever the hell you call it isn't stupendous I think that it's going to the default conventional wisdom on Apple and it's design prowess when it comes to making products is going to flip. And I think it's going to flip really hard and really fast. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. You're wearing AirPods.

Actually, we're going to post about AirPods stickers. Like, people are like trying to make them not look like that. Okay, I just have a question. So, you know, you're talking about how Apple is supposed to see around the corner a little bit, right? And I'm just wondering if, like, Apple really just thinks people just want to buy the phones. Everyone's using their phones to, like, surf the web or whatever, like general consumers. not pros. And you're saying that the pros have stuck around for these past four years. Like,

everyone here has a Mac Pro. Like, they're still with it. So maybe this timing isn't actually, like they're upset. They want something new, but Apple's giving it to them. Like, I don't know. It seems like they've stuck through. And the customers are still here. Like, no one upgraded to a Windows PC. I think there's a bunch of people who are more interested in switching to Windows. And I think this is the, you're probably right. Like, the timing is right where Apple sees. If they don't do something, they're going to lose a bunch of customers to the Windows end. Particularly, I think now, actually, you can connect it to a theater to set out AR. Like, if that's their next move, they're going to do all this AR stuff, they, someone needs to make it.

And if they don't have products that can help you make AR, which requires a great deal of, like, they're just going to have to do something else, right? And, like, I think app developers, what do you do in a phone? You run apps and you watch videos. The people who make that stuff, you need to give them something to make it with. You can't make it on an iPad yet, at least not to the level that you'd want. So I think you're right. Like the timing just ran out. It's just weird that they didn't.

It's weird that they're late, right? It just is probably the right time. It just seems like they're like, you know what? We're going to focus on like the teens and moms who want to watch YouTube and who want to go through their photo albums and make little montages and, you know, just want to, I message their kids. Yeah. And that's working out great. I can I message from my MacBook Air. Yeah. Like, awesome. And I can watch YouTube videos. Like, not everyone needs to video edit. So maybe they're just like, you know what? We're going to sit back.

Yeah. I don't know. But that's the thing. Like, they're not... Again, I'm new to the Apple. No, no, it's not that. It's like Apple's supposed to be this scrappy upstart. And now they're acting like the big company that it's like, well, we're going to buy it anyway. Like, I think that's what gets me. Yeah, that's totally how I see it. They're like, well, you don't have a, like, what, do you want to use Windows? That's still me how they're acting.

It's a circle. We made you a fucking circle. Just use it. It's fine. I don't think they want to be that company. I don't know. It just makes me, it makes me sad to think of them as being that company. If you're working in 3D, which you have to do to do augmented reality, you are on Windows right now.

Yeah. I mean, Palmer Lucky, like two years ago was like, whatever, like, I can't support it. They don't have a good GPU. That was two years ago. And like that, if that is indeed the future, then they're going to have to catch up. And maybe that's like, maybe that was the wake up, right? Like they're working on their big AR plans and like. Somehow I don't think Palmer lucky.

No, no. I meant like Apple's working on their big AR plans because, you know, Tim Cook keeps talking about it. And their own engineers are like, yeah, we're going to need to build some PCs here because we can't use our own products. Like that would suck if you're Apple. You're like, well, can someone place an order for as many Windows PCs as possible? That's her on. Can we beat this horse? We can talk about clips if you want.

I don't want to talk about it. Lauren and Ashley both played with it. You made a video about clips. Lauren did like a little thing. I mean, yeah, it's just a video editing app. It's kind of like, it's basically the in-between of those photo montage, like things that Apple puts together from your albums and Imovie. And it's all designed to be done from your phone.

Do you see yourself, like, to me, like at a fundamental level, the big question with clips is, do I want to edit a thing and then have to like dump it out to another app to post it? Or do I want my funny face video editing app to be built into the social networking app that I'm posting it to? Like that's an interesting choice. And it's like a, you just mentioned like a mom friendly choice. Like it's a really mom friendly way to design this kind of app. It's definitely mom friendly. But it's funny because I have a friend who works at a coffee shop.

And he recently was talking about like how he wants to do how to videos behind. the scenes sort of things. And he was doing it on Instagram where you can like start and stop your videos. He can walk away for 10 minutes and he would show how to cold brew coffee. And I was telling him about clips and it's actually, that's like the perfect app for someone like him who's just like a small brand and wants to show people behind the scenes. Like it's great for that. Yeah. And that's interesting. That's like he can make something infinitely better. I'm not saying it's like the best or something. But it's better than your Instagram video. There's no music. Yeah. Music is something. Although you're going to hear, uh,

This Tiki track way too often. Just prepare ourselves. There's something called Tiki Horizon. It's coming for you. It's coming for your grams. Check it out. We should do an entire story on like default Apple sounds that are just part of oral environment. But didn't they literally commission like Hans Zimmer to make some of this music?

Yeah. Yeah, they have some weird soundtracks. Oh, Hans. Something called Mambo-Jumbo. Great for a coffee shop, how to. Wait, what's your go-to? I like Tiki Horizon. Who doesn't like Tiki?

It's very much my vibe. Yeah. Tiki Horizon and Mabo Jumbo. Like, are they going to open up a shitty Mexican restaurant? Is that their plan? Or a sick-ass beach bar. Yeah. Woo!

What was it? Cocktails. Cottails. We are not going down another Tom Cruise movie rabbit hole. No. People should play with it, first of all. Toctail, I think, taught me everything about... No.

Don't do this. selling out, right? Like, you gotta keep your integrity, man. Yeah. God damn it.

Let's watch cocktail. If you're, if you're going to talk about Tom Cruise movies, I'm going to go on a four-hour, like, fever dream rant about legend, okay? So let's just move on.

How it's a really good and underappreciated movie? What was the first movie? It's Ridley Scott, right? I think so. It's like the Redley Scott made a Lord of the Rings movie with Tom Cruise in it.

Yeah. And the unicorn. Right? Can I tell you a really embarrassing story? You have to. Every day. When I was like, I don't know, 11, I guess, when this movie came out, all the ads were about how it was shot in, like, ultra-widescreen. Cocktails or legend?

No, I haven't revealed the movie yet. And I was like, a nerd. And I was like, man, they, like, shot it with this crazy camera. It's in widescreen. So I made my dad take me to see far and away. You've seen this movie? It's not a good movie to go watch with your dad when you're 11. And away.

Yeah. So Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Joint. Tom Cruise leaves Ireland with his landlord's daughter after some trouble with her, according to the island. That's the worst description of a movie. Quote, some trouble with her? A young man leaves Ireland with his landlord's daughter after some trouble with her. That's all that says. Anyway, let's move on.

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And every week. Every week. You do a segment. Even when I'm gone, I do it too. Never missed one. Ever. Ever. We always do it at the same time in the show.

It always has the same name. Yeah. It's called, here's a new phone. It's called. We could have named the entire website that. I know. Big Mr. opportunity. So there's this company out of Korea called Samsung.

Oh, yeah. He's got a new phone. Is your gadgetorial in the S-A? Are you kidding? You cannot do that. There's a big one and there's a smaller one. Go back on vacation, Ashley. Every week you do a segment. Yes. So this segment is called, huh, that looks a lot like a bees hive. Hey. Yeah. And it is Bing and Oliveson's new modular speaker set called the B-O-Sound. shape. Oh, yeah.

And it looks like a bees hive. It's really cool. Do you say bees hive? Beehive. Beehive. Beehive. I think of the bees as owning the hive. Like a bees.

There's an apostrophe in it. It's like, a hairstyle. It's our new cocktail bar. It's like a hairstyle. That's our new cocktail bar. The bees hive. That's great.

Come listen to Tiki Marauders. I like to think of the bees having a home. Okay. Me lie. That's fine. Everyone needs ambition. So this is the B-O sound shape. It costs for a bass kit $4,266 dollars.

Come on. That's eight tiles only. And it's each tile's a speaker? So there's speakers, yeah, speakers amplifier. And they're shaped like octagon. And you like arrange that. But then you can like make it really big. Right.

But like. And it's supposed to improve. That's so expensive. Are you going to buy? Well, it's for your upwardly mobile bees. Oh, my God. Lots of honey. I think part of it is it's also

It needs more honey Is there such a thing as like dual income no kid bees? Yeah, they're just out there. They don't actually have children They're just out there living in the life In their 30s without kids Yeah.

Making money and they're constantly building ever bigger hives To fill the holes in their bees hive Yeah, anyway, but you're into this thing. I mean it's just so cool looking. I could never afford this. I don't know. This is for office buildings, I guess. It's supposed to improve the sound characteristics of a room because you're almost like making a wall.

Well, Vlad checked it out and he was not impressed with the sound fault. He said it was good. Like it's fine. But he's like, this is not for people who are like, you know, Vlad. Yeah. Who are obsessed with audio. Yeah. It's for bees.

It's for bees. It's for bees. Okay, let's talk about YouTube. So do you have cable? No. Ashley, do you have cable? No. Dieter, I think, do you cut the cord?

I haven't had cable for years. Yeah. So I'm the last one with cable. 20 of them. And I'll tell the story. We were at South by Southwest. It was like the night Matt Ow was going to be like, I've got the tax returns. And we all sat around dinner at South by Southwest, desperately trying to figure out how to watch MSNBC.

We all failed. Like just down the line. I know you had like a sling set up. I used to have a slingbox, but it broke. Oh, it wasn't your slingbox at your parents' house? My slingbox was at my parents' house so I could watch Packers games. but that was like that was like an ancient hack

like literally like a coax cable is like coming out of the ground there are bees everywhere but all that's broken now but I have I have a TiVo that's supposed to have like sling like functionality built into it it just has never worked

I think Paul has PlayStation View that's in I had View I not Paul Ross I got the wrong Miller Ross has PlayStation View Ross and I both had View fans Do you fail? Just like down the line.

I have pay for cable. I tried to log in to MSNBC. That failed. The only thing that worked was Megan found a pirate periscope of somebody pointing in the TV. No, they're pointing at a laptop rather. So there's a periscope pointed at a laptop, and then the laptop started buffering. So like just fails all around. So I'm like, thinking about that, YouTube comes out with YouTube TV.

Ben reviewed it this week. It's got some weird holes in the channel thing. but... Yeah, the channel whole thing is a real problem for me. They'll fix it, right? I mean, that's the promise of all these services.

But it's $35 a month and it actually works. And it has an unlimited DVR. Would that convince any of you to buy it? If they just improve the channel lineup by like 15%, I'll probably do it. I'm paying for PlayStation View right now.

I never use it. I'm not really happy with it. The unlimited online DVR is actually a really big deal. Yeah, the DVR really stood out to me. I do wish that it was also Like the the real problem that I have with most of these services is like The actual like on demand component of this stuff is always really crappy

Like DVR is fine but like You know what? Just you've got it. You've got it available just DVR everything for me always all the time Like don't just make it all on this is a weird copyright law thing I know It's because then what they're not allowed to right like I there's like a real question in my mind why they can't do that and also, or if they're deduplicating. So if you have YouTube TV and I have YouTube TV

and we both decide to record the same show do they have to make two separate copies? Very unclear. If they do, that is stupid. But if they don't, then why can't I access your copy later and like some weird, right?

Like if I start a show 10 minutes in, I hit record like they have a copy on it. Well, that would be me. And you would think that there's a to you somehow. Yeah. Right. And you would think that there's like, oh, like, they could do it and like make some reasonable argument about why it's okay to have just one copy of it that they streamed everybody

because they separate it out in some other way. You would think that that's possible, but you'd be dead wrong and you can just go back and read what happened to Aereo a few years ago to see just how insane these rules can get. I know it's a different situation. Yeah, because YouTube has deals, right? Like, Aria was, like, circumventing the deals system. And they also had a warehouse full of tiny little antennas that they were very proud of. Did it right.

In that they, I mean, they were basically... They failed and they got shut down, but that wasn't their bad. It was the bad of the longest. The Ario got it wrong because their app didn't work. I had Ario, and it was, like, not good. Work for me. Ario was about as good as Boxy. And I say that with as much promise and hope and failure, all mixed into one...

I don't think, you know what the nice thing about YouTube? I could imagine myself in a moment of desperation signing up for YouTube because something is so important that I have to see and it's on TV. That's it. And that's the one you're going to pick. Because where do you get to watch video on the internet? You go to YouTube. I go to YouTube. And so I know the app works and all that stuff.

And you're there and they're just like push this button. Yeah. And we're just going to, here's a free trial for a month. Activate real television. Okay. Yeah. And here's what I don't get. Google secretly has the best deal in like online media subscriptions ever.

You can get YouTube red and pull all ads out of YouTube and Google Play all access unlimited, whatever the shit it's called for $10 a month. So you get, you get a, you know, fine music streaming service and you get rid of all ads on YouTube and you get some crappy YouTube red shows, I guess, whatever. That is a great deal. None of that except for the shows that they make that nobody watches is part of this TV bundle. And I don't understand why. Yeah, I don't know. I should have loaded up YouTube.com today and had like a huge banner. Like pay us $20 more a month.

You can only get it in Chicago, L.A., New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago. I live in New York, Nelai. I know, but like, yeah. And Google knows that too. They know everything. And so does Comcast. And so does Paul Ryan. I don't know if he knows a whole lot.

Sorry. He's the representative for my parents. Dieter's totally right. YouTube Red is one of the best products. Yeah, I love it. I mean, are you, do you have Red? No. I hate YouTube ads so much.

At one time, I went through this project. I probably described this before, where I tried to create a targeted ad at myself, like tried to make a super targeted ad that was like five seconds long. so that I could like, because I had this idea, like, you should be able to buy your own eyeballs. You should be able to outbid advertisers

who think your time is worth this much. I'm like, well, my, I think it's more valuable. Yeah. I tried to, I could never actually get it to work. Were you like in the YouTube ad back end? Oh, yeah.

That's a really interesting project. Yeah, we should do that again. But maybe someone who actually understands how to use YouTube. There's a lot of people at this company. That's true. They all sit upstairs. I don't know what they do.

I'll ride the elevator. They all have great hair. That's all I know about. Spectacular. Seriously, the best hair. Well, I'm definitely going up there now. Whatever happens up there. It's like a salon and an advertising business.

All right. So here's the other thing about YouTube TV. It's 35 bucks a month, but you sign up for it on a phone. It's 39 because Apple charges the iOS tax. If you sign up for it on an iPhone. If you sign up on Android, you're fine. Yeah. Same with YouTube brand.

But I think the most important thing is. It's also not on TVs yet. Well, I mean, they got a rollout apps. It's not on the Apple TV. I don't think it's on the Roku yet. But when they get it out in the Apple TV, Google will have a much better TV system on the Apple TV than Apple, which I think is crazy.

I mean, my smart TV is just Chromecast. My Vizio is just Chromecast anyway. Yeah. All right, man. Does this interest you at all, actually? Yeah, I'm kind of with Paul. Like, I use my parents' cable. Thank you, parents.

But if they ever canceled, I'm most tempted by this YouTube TV. Yeah. Just because, again, it's a familiar interface. I trust YouTube. They have Bravo and E. They got to get... It's what you need.

Comedy Central. They do need Comedy Central. And I would like HBO options. Because that's like Hulu's one thing right now. Go to Hulu to watch Rick and Morty. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I would just DVR everything because I do it on-demand.

I'm not watching anything live. Yeah. Does YouTube... I guess I don't know the answer of this question. If you have YouTube TV, can you, like, do cable off into other services? Oh, that's an interesting question. Probably. Who knows?

Tweeted us if you know the answer, random YouTube product manager. What? Why would you do that? There's all kinds of reasons you do that. So that you have one interface to watch all. No, like, you know, you want to, if you don't have it on demand because you don't TV, you want to, like, log in the sci-fi app or whatever and get it from there. But then you would just do that?

Why would you do it through YouTube? No, but you need the, you need to pay, you need the TV anywhere. Because YouTube doesn't have on demand. It only has DVR. Right. So, like, if you need to go and, like, log into HBO Go. Right. What does that have to do with YouTube is what I'm asking?

So if you pay for YouTube TV, can you take the credentials for YouTube TV and then, like, use them for TV everywhere? Yeah, you know how you steal your parents' cable credentials to do stuff? That kind of thing. That makes sense. Oh. This has been a segment on the Vergecast where we kind of don't know what we're talking about. and we don't know the answer. So great radio for everyone.

If you're in your car, just turn it down for the next couple seconds or rewind and then turn it down. Also, a big thank you to parents everywhere for sharing their cable credentials with their children. I have not at the point with my parents where I'm subsidizing them for things and I'm very irritated about it.

That's not how it's supposed to go. My parents watch my Netflix. Yeah. There's one called Paul and there's one called Family. My family shares Netflix and my brother-in-law, passive-aggressively switched their credit card back and forth whenever it expires. Wow. And then I keep on turning on the 4K support and he keeps turning it off because it's on this credit card right now.

But my niece and nephew have discovered that if they don't use their profile and use my profile, my recommendations get ridiculous. So they have started trolling me through Netflix recommendations. Your niece and nephew troll you all the time, I feel like. That's all they do. I wish they would study math. No, that's fine. They're great. They love them. They're going to be great. It's all going to be fine. Everything's going to be fine. Yes, they're 12, and they've learned to troll, and it's wonderful.

This episode, Verchast, brought to you by Squarespace. Whatever your next big idea might be, count on Squarespace to help you create an eye-catching online platform that brings it to life. Whether you need a portfolio to showcase your work, store to sell your products and services, or a blog to share your ideas. Squarespace gives you everything you need to look like an expert right from the start. You can get a unique domain, which strengthens your brand, and makes it easy. years for visitors to find you. Plus, with Squarespace's award-winning templates, creating a beautiful website is simple and intuitive. You can add and arrange your content features with click of a mouse. There's nothing to install patch or upgrade ever. But if you do have a

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What do you want to get into? Can we talk about the phone reviews? Yeah, let's talk about phone reviews. Okay, well, last week there was a Samsung essay, obviously. We're all very excited about that. It's going to be big, guys. And this week we have two more Android phones that apparently are not so great. And I'm more just wondering if no one is interested in these phones and if people want that.

So the HTCU Ultra seems like a huge fail. According to Dan, who reviewed this. It is a monstrous, literally giant-sized fail. It is a huge phone. It is big. Yeah, it's funny in the way that big things are funny, right? Yeah. Because like big things are like inherently funny.

Like Andre the Giant. Like in that like sad way, right? No, yeah. It's not like tragic comic. This is taking a turn. Yeah. Sad a little bit. Because he died young.

My God. This is the darkest episode of the Virgin. But much like the HGCU Ultra. But everybody remembers the thing about the peanut. Yeah. Everyone remembers it. But died young. But also.

But this is a sweet color. We all agree. The blue is very sweet. It's nice. No headphone jack. USBC audio. Non-standard USBC audio. Yeah.

Weird proprietary USBC audio. HTC is like, you know, people love that lightning. What if we had our own lightning? Right. But we're HTC. I don't understand any decision on this one. What about this little extra screen? It has a second screen.

Yeah. What if we took LG's worst idea from two years ago? I don't know. But, Dieter, you reviewed the other one. Yeah. the LGG6 is not a bad phone, actually. It's a very good phone with some pretty bad software. Because I just, I don't know.

I've got this whole thing where like there's like an LG way of doing phones that people apparently like. And I don't understand it at all. It's like, I don't know, it's like Star Trek. It's, it's an interface that somebody loves and everybody else is like, I don't know what's going on here. But basically the G6 is like the cut rate less fancy version. of the Samsung Galaxy S8.

They both have the same core gimmick, which is the screen is super tall, and there's almost no bezels or no bezels. And that's like the point of the phone. And LG did, I think, a really good job. When I took my SIM card out of the G6, I have a Google Pixel and iPhone 6S, oh, and a Galaxy S7 Edge.

And I like literally put the SIM in all. all three phones because I put it in the first phone pick up and be like, well, this looks stupid. Why is this screen so small? I put it the next phone. Well, this looks stupid. Like, it, every phone should have a screen that takes up this much of the front of the face of the phone from now on. Yeah.

It is just way, way better. The stretching thing isn't a problem. Yeah, you can complain about the letterboxing on the left and the right if you really want to when you're watching video, but I don't have time for that, worrying about that. It's just like, you can just see more stuff on the screen. without having a gigantic phone. And so good job, LG. I mean, the gimmick in my video and review

is I gave it a participation award. Yeah. I love that you bought the ribbon. I bought the ribbon because, like, all the trophies were really bad. I wanted to give a... I spent, like, an hour on Amazon. Like, nobody will know that this is a participation trophy.

Like, the world's game of participation trophies is gone. The participation ribbon, the box that it came in, had a crying child on it. No. Yes, it was amazing. Oh, my God.

But yeah, like they deserve credit for being in the conversation in 2017, having made a phone. If they had, if they would just have like, like normalized the pricing on this thing

and gotten that pricing down to like $650 or $600 even, we'd be having a wildly different conversation about it. The conversation we'd be having is you, if it was a little bit cheaper. Yeah. You could get an S8. You get the S8 if you want the best. one. You get a Google Pixel if you want a good clean Google experience. Or if you don't want to

spend that much money, you get the G6. That would be down the line what everybody would say about Android phones for the next six months. Instead, what we're saying is, hey, LG, crackerjack job. I'm saying that it's $600. I think it'd have to be fought. Like, you're going to save $120 and not get the best one is like kind of weird. That's fair. Especially when you're kind of up in that territory. But if this is a $500 phone, I'd be like, yeah, this is like the default Android phone if you want the best one. Yeah. I mean, we are due at some point for a new One Plus.

That'll be interesting. You know, there's like, there's Android phones every other week. But I don't know, man. I can't get over how bad HTC whiffed the U Ultra. Like, they make the pixel. They know how to make good phones. They've done it in the past. But it seems like, honestly, ever since the original HTC one with its ultra

pixel. They've just been like just swim it upstream trying to get people to take them seriously. And every year they almost get there and then they don't. And it's just like, what are you doing? You know how to do this and you just screw it up every year. The ultra pixel thing to me was we were talking earlier about Apple seeing it on the corner. Like HGC saw around the corner. They're like people are going to value low light performance in their cameras.

and we're not going to get in the megapixel race, and they just, like, crashed. They're like, we see her on the corner, and they forgot to, like, pay attention to the world around them. I mean, that's, like, the story of HTC. Like, I don't know. I think they should just focus on making Google's phones for them and not worry about anything else they're doing,

because they don't have it, I don't know. Well, and the vibe. And the vibe. But Addy wrote a great piece this week on one year, of the Vive. She referred to it as the Palm Trio era of VR. Or actually, she quoted somebody who referred to it as that. I just want to point out that I am not the person who brought up Palm in the podcast.

I brought it up to see if we could get you going on like an hour-long digression about the Palm Trio era of VR. Do you any of these funds appeal to year? I'm so locked into Apple. But my question was if you guys think the modular thing is just done now. Like was that a one-off situation for LG? I thought the modular was cool. Motorola's going to stick with it. It looks like Mona's doing another one.

They're going to make modular phones and dope rap videos. That's going to be it. So embarrassing that video. Is that modular interesting to you? Yeah. What modules do you wish you could? I just think it's cool that you can swipe out to a speaker or a better camera. Like, I don't know.

Something about that to me is really interesting. I just always feel with modules, if you're carrying that around, you can't just put modules in your pocket, right? Well, people carry around those iPhone lenses like we were talking about today. Right. So you could do that, or you could just carry a Bluetooth speaker and a better camera in the bag that you were putting your modules in, right? But the module would be smaller, I guess. I mean, I don't know. I just think it's kind of fun that you could swap it out.

Yeah. But that's like, it's kind of fun is not enough. Get a cell phones. Here's a good idea. Although Dan loves the motophone way more than the pixel. He's way into the Z-Play, which seems insane to me. I will say that, again, the OLED screen in the pixel, way too bright. Every color is way too bright for me.

I'm kind of hoping Apple does not go to OLED with the new phone. The G6 is an LCD. I know. I mean, LG makes great LCDs. Call them a name with bad stuff. software. I mean, that's... I'll bring it to New York so you can play with it. I'm excited. Paul, you're going to...

What's your situation? I have not seen a single thing that any phone manufacturer has done that made me think, got to get that phone since Gear VR. Do not, Paul, honest to God, do not use an S8 or a G6 for more than a day because after you do, every other screen looks cramped. Okay. Well, so, I mean, I appreciate that warning. Maybe you're right.

Maybe I'm totally missing out. Where's your headphone dongle? I left my headphones attached to the dongle in Arizona. So I'm on wired earbuds status. Yeah. Which is basically DefCon worst. DevConn worst. As far as dongle life goes.

I'm still making it work. Yeah. I mean, but yeah, like all these phones seem to have like some interesting features. And like, you know, I like to upgrade my iPhone because I know I'll get better. pictures and stuff like that. Or I cracked my screen so I need to upgrade anyways. But yeah, nothing has been like, whoa,

new phone is important and different since Gear VR. And I bought that phone, and I played with Gear VR for a couple days. Now you're done. I'm done. I really, really want to switch over to the pixels my primary phone. And I'm really, really

afraid of leaving all of my friends and family behind. Like, it's just that's what I know. You got to get them on that. that new, what's it called? Let me tell you something. I'm not getting a master. It's not going to happen.

Yeah. Your friends and family are not that important. They're not going to miss you that much. And you won't miss them. Says the one person that makes me use WhatsApp. Human relationships are overrated. You're, you'd be much happier you're having just a relationship

with your Android phone instead of with other people. I have always preferred things to people. That's just a fact of my life. That's why I'm in the technology business. It's being real. Yeah. I mean, he doesn't love things.

Who doesn't think the relentless pursuit of things is more important than any social interaction. I mean, if you're talking about lasting happiness, you're totally right. It's just things. Just give me more things. Paul, tell you about Project Scorpia. All right. Which is your new beach bar. Here's the difference.

What's my beach bar? Yeah, that's a great name for a beach bar. A wide will be across the beach. From Tiki Fun. What's the name of the song? Tiki Horizon. Tiki Horizon. Tiki Horizon.

Bees hive. Yeah. The bees hive. It's like, we're going to rage tonight. Project Scorpio is going to appeal to like local angsty. Yeah. Like the angsty locals. Yeah.

You know. Not just tourists. It's the real bar. It's the real bar. Yeah. You have the best industry night on the beach. So. I've really thought about this way too much already.

All the. Microsoft basically, there's a, this guy at Eurogamer. that does just amazing in-depth looks at console technology. And so Microsoft basically gave him all the information, and he gave the world all the information. But the basic idea is that with the PlayStation 4 Pro, Sony took the chip they had, made it faster, took the GPU they had, and made it more, right?

But basically, it's the same stuff, it's just more and a little bit faster. Scorpio is like a true upgrade. It's in a sense different architecture. And so it has room to be a lot faster. But it's not like wildly different architecture though, right? Like it's still using the Jaguar architecture for the CPU. Right.

But it's like a new model in a sense. It's like not like the new, it's, yeah. Because the thing is with console development, it's always hyper targeted at the actual hardware. You know exactly how many cores you have and how fast. they are and everything with the console. And so the downside

of this is that there's a lot more room for power. It's like six terraflops versus four terraflops but like there's a lot more power in the Scorpio than the PlayStation 4 Pro. The downside is that there's possibilities for glitches in the games because if something's

hyper optimized for the Xbox one and this architecture which is slightly different the game's like, well I didn't expect that to be there. And so Microsoft is apparently doing the work to go through the whole catalog to make sure everything is going to work completely fine. Wow. But it also means that a lot of games, so PlayStation 4 Pro has this boost mode, so games that haven't been specifically optimized for the PlayStation 4 Pro can still get like frame rate improvements and stuff. Basically, the whole library of Xbox games is getting boost mode in a sense.

So there should be like improvements to like everything Xbox One. Like, you'll get a more steady frame rate. Or a lot of games have, man, I'm really feel bad because everybody should just watch this Eurogame. I'm just ripping this guy off. But a lot of games have dynamic resolution. So when, like, Overwatch does this. Like, when it gets really hectic, the resolution is lower so that they can keep the frame rate up. Because, like, especially shooters, you want to prioritize frame rate.

So games like that will dip in resolution less. often. It's going to improve basically everything for existing, or almost any Xbox 1 game or even like Xbox 360 games that run on the Xbox 1 should improve

in some way, either frame rate steadiness, like staying right at 60 or right at 30 or like staying at 1080p instead of bouncing down to 720 or 900. But like this whole thing was like way less emphasis than Sony

did on 4K. So like 4K games will be totally possible and I'm guessing that will be more of like the stuff that gets optimized. Like developers going in and tweaking their games to have a 4K mode and this console will have a lot more

headroom than the PlayStation 4 Pro does to be able to do that. So the game should look as good or better on the Xbox one if they have been optimized for it. So what's the... They made a faster console. But like all this extra headroom. Yeah. Is it a decade worth of headroom?

Are they just going to do this again in two years? Like, I guess that's like my big question with these new console cycles. I don't think, I don't know if anybody knows yet if this is the new status quo, where they just bump the specs every couple years. I mean, I think they're going to want to have like a big splash line in the sand generation, I would assume, because that I think is very good for business. But I don't know, Dieter, do you get a vibe that like this is going to be forever where they're just going to keep on updating like this?

Yes, that's exactly what they're going to do, until they realize that nobody's bought any more Xboxes. Yeah, I mean, it just feels like, well, you make the console break so you can, like, kill backwards compatibility, right? And, like, that's not what they're doing now. Yeah, Microsoft's not killing backwards compatibility anymore. Like, they have basically through the 360 now.

Yeah, well, they, I mean, this was their big thing last year. We, you know, we did a whole bunch of stories and feature about this. So, like, Microsoft is now treating, they're, trying to hybridize and change the console market so that we think of it a little bit more like the PC gaming market where like there's just a platform you code your game to the platform and then it will do look better or worse depending on what your computer is and it will look better or worse depending on what your console is. There's a there's a very very real question about whether or not that's actually going to hold together for more than five years as a strategy.

I would like to believe that it would. But to me, Microsoft's, like, big critical problem right now isn't so much, is their grand bet on the future of console architectures right or not? Their big problem is that they're getting outsold by a huge margin by the PlayStation, and the PlayStation has getting all the best games exclusively, and they're not coming to the, Xbox or they're only coming to the Xbox later.

And so they just, that is like the bigger, more immediate problem. I actually think they're bet on building a console architecture, like, plan for the next, you know, decade or however long it's going to be is pretty good. I just think the games are pretty not good. And that's a problem for a game console. How many PlayStation 4 exclusive, like non-first parties are we talking about? I know persona 4 was, or persona 5. Is Horizon Zero Don on the Xbox?

Of all the times we need Megan. I think you're right. I mean, there's also like the network effect, right? Yeah. Like just the general sense that like more people are on the PlayStation. Totally right. Horizon Zero Dawn's PlayStation 4-2 as well. Andrew and Chris have been writing about this.

Although it's published by Sony. It's kind of first part. Yeah. But Andrew and Chris have been writing about the fact that like the Xbox is great, but the PlayStation has better games right now. It's just the thing. I need to buy a PlayStation. And I need to buy a PlayStation VR.

and then I need to leave this reality behind. I keep in a PC, dude. I have to now, but I literally give you my PSVR. Why do you do until 2018 or 19? Are you kidding me? For a new powerful Mac. Oh, because then all the games will be on Mac. Right away, right that second.

Yeah, it's going to be awesome. I'm super excited for it. All right, we need to wrap up the show. But Ashley, I want to give you, tell me what's up. She already had her moment. Yeah, I wrote about clips. I did my screen drive. I mentioned both.

Those are like my big things I did this week. Yeah. I guess for me it's like I don't have any moments, so I'm just excited for other people's moments. That's where I live now. No moments. No moments. Well, it's just me and Adjit Pie.

We haven't asked people to tweet him about the show for a while. We haven't. You know, if you're listening to this and you like to see Chairman Pye and I face off tweet at him, is that Adjit Pi FCC. I've tried to find him on Facebook yesterday. Did he accept? He hasn't replied yet. But we have friends in common, so maybe I'll start snaking my way through that.

But he did some stuff this week. Verizon leaked out they're going to rename AOL and Yahoo Oath, which gives me... Well, no, they clarified that Oath is going to be the parent division for AOL and Yahoo. But it has been further clarified to me that the Yahoo brands will stay, but AOL's branding is really what's going to turn into Oath. Okay. So the AOL brand is going to recede into the background, and it will be Oath. It's been further clarified to me that you've got mailw. was a great film.

Walt talked about You've Got Mail on his podcast two weeks ago. Oh, my God. It's a classic. We suggested having a screening. All right. You've got Mail versus Sleepless in Seattle. Ashley, go. You've got mail.

Eli. Sleepless in Seattle. Deter. Sleepless in Seattle. Wait, aren't they the same movie? They're very close to the same. See, I don't know which one I like better. Let's just end it there.

And next week, tune into the Virtchast next week. I'll decide by next. week. To see which late 90s a rom-com Paul has chosen. Anyway, look, it's been,

I would say, good verge cast. Paul's back. It was, you know, that I had to get used to his energy in the room. But it's good.

We got through it. Just as much as I can say about any of our episodes. But there's so much other stuff to listen to. You can listen to Control Delete. Walt and I went in,

actually on ISP privacy. Talked about Sonos a bunch. The CEO of Sonos actually just tweeted at me because he listened to it. And he said, Thank you, Walt.

We don't agree with you on everything, Neelai. So that's great. We talked about Mac stuff on that show, too. Lauren Good, I think had Tony Rom on too embarrassed to ask. Tony Rom, the great new policy reporter at Recode. They talked about some stuff regarding Internet privacy. Keras Swisher hosts Recode Decode, which is wonderful. I'm very vital right now.

Peter Kafka hosts Recode Media, which is my very favorite because I'm a big media nerd. So listen to all that stuff. iTunes.com slash The Verge, you know, rated. in iTunes. Just go through that emotional journey of using that software. That'll be good for you. Builds character. And then you can tweet at us. We love that.

Ashley. Ashley R. Carmen. Paul. Future Paul. Deeter. Also on Mastodon. Oh my God. Dieter. Which instance, though, Paul? XYZ. Yeah, I'm on Mastodon.X,000.X, as well.

I'm backlawn there and also on Twitter. I'm on a woo space, which is just the craziest. A woo. A woo. A Wodot space. I'm at Reckless. Is that a mastodon?

It's a mastodon instance. It's furries. I don't know what else to say to you. It's for furries. I knew it. I knew it all along. But it's great. It's a safe space for furries, all right?

That's my new social network of choice. But I love it. I think Macedon's very interesting and we'll probably be gone soon. What? A woo space. Evan Rogers's there with me. He's my only a wu space friend. But I think Casey's on that.

Look, just get on the mask on. I'm not even going to tell you what it is. It's a new hot underground social network. And I'm at Reckless on Twitter, which is not the new hot social network. That's the one with the Nazi eggs. Although Twitter fighting the U.S. government, they just, before we started recording, they filed a lawsuit to not have to reveal the identity of one of their users. So good job.

Yeah, good for them. Anyway, that was the Vergecast. Thank you, for us for listening. We'll be back next week. I'm told I don't have to thank a sponsor at the end. But just shout out to Krasal, because you know you long. That's what you get. All right, that's it.

Rock and roll, Paul. Snip, step.