The Vergecast - The Force Naps

Episode Date: April 17, 2015

It's a veritable who's who of podcasting today, as Dieter Bohn takes the Vergecast reigns, and invites Chris Ziegler, Sam Sheffer, Emily Yoshida, and Kwame Opam to The Vergecast. We've got the gold MacBook, the Surface 3, the new Star Wars trailer, and Ryan Gosling's rumored presence in a Blade Runner sequel. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Vergecast. This is the week of, I don't know, April 13th. It's April 16th today. I am not Nealai Patel. I am Dieter Bone. I'm Chris Sigler. And I am Sam Schaeffer. Why aren't you at the hype desk?

You invited me here. The hype desk is empty. That's, there is zero hype. It's so lonely and sad over there. It is so hype that we had to bring the hype to the main table. Repping Verge today, feeling good. So, yeah, Nilai was on Vacation. I guess he deserves one.

So we are filling in. We've also, we're going to have an array of people. You guys are going to be on for a while. We might try and bring Emily and Kwame out later. And we're all very excited because these new Star Wars trailer just dropped. But we'll save that discussion for a way. We're not going to talk about it right now because sitting to my left, Chris Ziegler, is a known Star Wars hater.

Not a hater of the series. You are a Star Wars hater. No, I'm not a hater of the series. I look George Lucas said somewhere in the range of 10 years ago that this that it was done okay he said it was done and now it's not done anymore and I'm a little upset about it

what did Dom say at the end of the first Fast and the Furious oh that's a little different it's not different no no it's different it's different because because the Star Wars movies are better and it was outch whatever I'm not going down this rabbit hole this is a dangerous place to be I you know oh god I want to talk about Star Wars now really badly. I just watched

Attack of the Clones last night. I still feel like it's a slightly underrated movie. There's a lot of really, really terribleness, but the whole set of Obi-Wan, like, performing his investigation is great. I thought it was the best of the three new ones. That's not saying much, though, is it? No, it isn't.

Okay, we're going to talk a lot more Star Wars later because we are excited, but I think we should talk about, because we didn't get to talk about it last time too much last week, the new MacBook, and I also want to talk about this Surface 3 that

I'm holding in my hand. What do you want? You're going to buy one, aren't you? You're going to buy a MacBook? I really want to. Micah bought a MacBook. Of course Mikea. Bought a MacBook. Luxury Singleton bought a MacBook, which he calls on Twitter the most ridiculous. I think he called

it the most ridiculous hardware Apple is made. That is objectively true. Yeah, I think it's true. Yeah. I just had an opportunity to really dig in with one over the weekend, meaning I went to the cube. Yes. Wait, you went all the way up to the cube?

The Apple Store Cube? Yeah, I did. Not that far. It's hype is what it is. I don't know what that means. How many times have you gone to the Apple sort of try on a watch, Sam? Just once. That's a lie.

Including the addition experience. Yes, that was, I booked that back to back. It was very convenient. Yeah. Well, anyway, I was shocked at how quickly I got used to typing on it. It really wasn't. Right. Yeah.

Everybody's like, oh, this keyboard sucks. But the keys are wider. And then I guess they kind of have a different curve to them. So it's easier to hit the edges. Yeah. And then they come in flat, so it's shallow. But because of the mechanism and the steel dome, it feels just really nice and clicky and normal. Right.

Right. Yeah, it was good. So why, are you going to buy one or not? So there are two factors for me right now. One is that this MacBook Air clearly is not dead. And justifying owning two laptops is difficult. I think that a work laptop and a personal desktop makes a lot of sense, maybe combined with a personal tablet. But just the concept of owning two laptops has never worked well for me.

What I find is that I end up using one 99.9% of the time and the other 1.1% of the time. And at that point, I'm like, I need to sell this thing because it's not getting enough use. So that's where I'm at right now. This error is still a very important part of my life. And I just don't know if I have room for another one. So, okay, we should actually, like, we didn't get into it much, but my review, I basically said two things that I think are true still. One, it makes me hate my air. Yeah.

And two, it basically feels, and I know, Chris, you've said this, it feels like the iPad air, two, decided to, like, up and become a Mac. Yes. Yeah. The thing feels as well put together and well, like, crafted as an iPad. Yep. And it has kind of the same amount of power. Fair, fair. And it has one port.

And it has just one single little reversible port. Yeah. But like this is where laptops are going. Right. There's no question about that. Right. And what does that mean? It means that your next laptop or the one after that is going to be fanless.

It's going to have an incredibly high resolution screen. It's going to be stupid, crazy thin. It's going to last somewhere in the neighborhood of eight hours. And it's going to be maybe not the most powerful thing you could buy. But don't you want power? Like, if I were to buy a new MacBook, I would probably buy the 13-inch Retina. Right. Because it's a MacBook Pro.

Like, you can't, like... But when's the last time you needed that power? Yeah. How much 4K video editing are you doing, Sam? Be honest. Zero. But, you know, when I run two browsers, and usually there's 10 to 15 tabs open each, Slack's always open, tweet text always open, Twitter for Macs always open.

Yeah. And, like, you know, I like, I don't like turning off my computer. I like leaving it on and coming back to right where I. I was and sometimes the laptop hangs. And this is the Haswell Air. So if I were to buy a new machine, I wouldn't want to just buy something that, you know, can just like, you could just browse the internet on.

That's like the new air feels like, like I said, $1,300 Chromebook. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, basically. Yeah, that runs OSX. Yeah. But that's kind of what I want in a lot of cases. Yeah. I just don't want to spend that much on it. I just feel like if you're going to spend that much on it,

it should have a better processor. Like, will they put Skylake in this thing ever? Probably not. CoreM, right? Yeah. Yeah. At least it's that, Adam. Yeah, that's true.

Well, so you can, LifeHack, LifeHack Alert. Oh, God. You can build to order the new MacBook with a CoreM 1.3, which boost to 2.9. It's not available in stores. Yeah, but that boost doesn't matter. Yeah, I was just going to say. It's helpful, and like it makes discrete individual tasks feel okay briefly. But, like, if you're doing serious photo editing or you're doing the other thing that destroys

Macbooks, which is running Chrome. Right. It doesn't help in the long term. Yeah. By the way, Vlad put up this piece, and I know it also applies to Windows to some extent, although I feel like Chrome runs better on Windows than it does on a Mac. Yeah. But Chrome on a Mac.

It's a nightmare. It's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. And Safari, I was originally very bullish on it, but one, there's still a few UI problems. Dude, just let me pin a tab. Let me pin a tab. Yes.

Why can't I pin a tab? Thank you. That's all I want. And there's no good extensions that I've found that I trust that are good for doing that. Yeah. It also has a tendency to, once you get beyond a certain tab limit, it goes haywire in a way that Chrome doesn't. Right. Which is not pleasant.

There's no good answer. Just stop browsing. And also Apple apparently hates favikons and tabs. Yes. This is the other thing. So if you've got a bunch of tabs, it makes it harder to identify each individual one. Yeah. And it does this weird, like, thing where tabs get bigger and smaller.

I hate that. Yeah. I hate that. When you're like tabbing, purging tabs in Chrome, they all stay the same size. And then they dynamically shift. Yeah. Safari tab management is still so bad. Yeah.

I feel you on that. Hype check Safari. Like a five. It's like, come on. Like they have, it has the, doesn't have the new JavaScript engine or something or is that on iPhone. But I don't know. Like when I got the new MacBook, I was like, yeah, Safari's the best. And then Safari just sucks.

Like I had this really. It doesn't suck. It's just like, it's designed. It's designed. It's basic. It's basic. It's basic. It's super fast.

It's super easy on the battery. But it's like, I need like a pro features. Yeah, exactly. You need a browser with utilities. Right. Safari's like, L. LOL, go to Facebook.

You know what it's time for? You know what it's time for? What's that? Firefox. I'm just going to put it out. I'm, I am. Fire what?

I'm ethically not allowed to discuss Firefox. No, yeah, Dieter has to recuse himself from this conversation. I used, I used Firefox when I was like 14. because it was like the new hit browser. And then Chrome came out and Chrome for life for now. So when you were 14, that was Firefox, what, 3.0, 4.0?

I don't even remember. I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah. No, it actually, you know, Firefox is one of those things where it's on my machine and every like two months, it's kind of like my Xbox where every time I started up, it has to like update itself because it's been that long since I started last. And it seems to get, it seems to be in a really good place right now.

I should probably give it a chance. I just haven't. Yeah. All right. Sorry. MacBook. Macbook. You're not going to buy one.

And if you do, you're going to buy the space gray one. I'm torn. Space gray or gold, definitely not silver. Yeah, silver's bust. Yeah. Well, it's not bust. It's just played because everything is silver. Yeah. Speaking of played, the screen on this MacBook error.

Like, I feel like Apple is intentionally not putting a retina screen on the MacBook air to, like, make me buy the more expensive new MacBook. Yeah. Come on. You can regularly get. get the 11-inch MacBook air for $7.99 now. Like, it's not difficult. But the screen is so bad. Like, most other screens we look at when you watch television, it's 1920 by 1080,

and you're sitting far back enough where, you know, you don't strain your eyes. But not that I'm straining my eyes with this is 1440 by 900, right? Yeah. But this is retina. The iPads are retina. The new MacBooks are retina. Why isn't this retina? Right.

It's like, it's a joke. It will be eventually. I mean, they can't hold out. They can't hold out. What if they leave this? Because like the reason I used to say I don't care about retina is I care more about battery life. And at least with the MacBook, they've like, they've balanced that pretty well. They did it with a super slow processor, but they did it.

And on the new Mac, you know, the MacBook Pro is the new one in the last generation. It's good enough for me, which is weird. I'm usually not the kind of person that says good enough when it comes to battery life. But like it's pretty close. I feel like it's not that much work to do the same on an air. given how well they've done it screens. And they're just not doing it. So, like, this is the new cheap, low-end MacBook.

And that's super word. Like, the Air is, like, the cheap kind of crappy Mac now. But it's not because the 13 is basically the same price as the MacBook, right? Yeah. Well, you can get one. I don't have to look. But this is the computer that I've used this model or the one before it. It's been, like, four or five years, basically since this model of the Air came out.

this form factor is the only thing I've used and I've been super duper happy. Yeah. And I was super duper happy until I started using retinae laptops on a regular basis. And now it just feels kind of, eh. Everything feels like kind of clunky and... And that's insane. Like you understand that's objectively insane to say that this thing, which Microsoft, you know, Windows PC makers have been chasing for literally half a decade is like starting

to feel clunky. It's only by comparison to the new MacBook. I sound like such an Apple fanboy, and I'm sure I'm getting Iverge tweets right now. It's cool. But it is. It's like incredibly good hardware. Well, it's really more to do with just the difference. It's strictly, brand decided, strictly a hardware thing.

It's just like 3.5 inch touchscreen phones used to feel enormous and now they feel microscopic. It's the same kind of thing. Yeah. But that new MacBook, just TLDR of the conversation, that is ridiculous hardware. I check. 10 out of 10. I mean, it's nuts. It's nuts.

That's how crazy that laptop is. It is gorgeous. I wish I had it here with me, but. Yeah. Go look at it in an Apple store to blow your mind. And I just want to talk. I love talking about the track pad. That thing still continues to melt my brain.

So it melts your brain for about an hour. Like, I can't, how does this work? This is dark magic. And then it's just a track pad. It's a really good track pad. No, but, but when you think about how it works. Yeah, but like, how often do you really like think about how it works? You get, you get like an hour.

And then it's just a track pad. To me right now, every time I click. this thing, I'm like, where are the magnets? Where are the magnets? I say that in every aspect of my life. No, it's just, it's crazy because when the laptop is off, it's like just a piece of glass. And then the first time, I think I told this already on the verge cast, but the first time I used Force Touch in the Apple store on a MacBook, I felt like I was getting electrocuted in a sense. Like, it didn't feel like a click. Oh, there's the Iverge tweet.

It happened to, it happened to me the first time I used it. And then that sensation went away because, right, it's, it's electromagnetic. magnets that are vibrating. And I'm, Dieter, correct me if I'm wrong. Is there a speaker that, like, emits a fake clicking noise to give you that simulation? I've heard conflicting reports. Okay. In any event, the thing is cool. Yeah. Should we talk about WWDC? Yeah. It's, uh, it's happening June 8th. Yeah. I mean, what we're expecting iOS 9. We're expecting, I'm hoping that they're going to Apple Watch fully detail Apple Watch native apps. Yep. Because that's cool. And a new OS 10. And OS 10. Yeah. And that's a lot. Yeah.

Do you really think they can pull that off? I mean, they did have Swift before. So, like, they know how to pack it in. Yeah. And there will probably be some form of Mac refresh. It might just get a stealth refresh. A 15 inch with force touch. Yes or no.

The Mac. Why not? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But that's a minor. I mean, like, keep in mind that at the last Apple event, that was something that was said in passing.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tim Cook spent like 30 seconds on the 13 inch. Yeah, literally. So that could be something they could do very quickly or not at all and just do it as a stealth update.

And there could be some IMac refreshers. TV stuff, maybe. Come on, man. Oh, you mean Apple? You mean like the box. Yeah, but not the, it's not a regular Gene Munster over here. Yeah, I mean, the invite. No, so there was, I think, I think it was John Gruber who said that the outline of the square and the invite looked a little bit like an Apple TV.

And there's always criminology, whenever these invite. images come out. So look, it was a photos icon with a bunch of icons around it. Yeah. Like icon shapes around it. And then if you look closely, like, oh, there's like a round direct square kind of thing. Yeah. Could be an Apple TV.

We're expecting a new one. Yeah. I think that was originally reported by Peter Kafka. And we're expecting apps. Yep. We're expecting apps. Thank God. Long overdue.

Only give me apps if you fix your interface. Yeah. Because the number of icons that I have, that just like randomly appear every day. Yeah. And then you have to go in... Out of control. You have to go in and like hide the ones you don't want.

Yeah. It's the worst. Yeah. And like moving around and like I didn't ask for this. Yeah. I didn't ask for that either. I still don't know what crunchy roll is after all these years. Crunchy roll?

Yeah. Is where he is in a portal to watch anime. No, it's kind of sushi. It's both of these things. I'm gonna return to the hot desk. Man, you wanted to be up here and it's... No, it's great. Yeah.

And I'm gonna throw out a... We're like the B team. We're the B squad for Vergecast. Maybe B minus. Hype check. Hype check this Vergecast squad. Just kidding. Every time you say hype check, it goes to the empty test.

That's perfect. We should talk about the Surface 3. Wait, I want to say one more thing. I want, okay. There's the IMAC. It's an outlier, but there's the IMAK rumor, which I think is completely false. Oh, my God. I think it never.

We don't see that as I-D-C. Nothing compares to the current IMAQ. I agree that it's nonsense. I just want to throw it out there as an outlier rumor possibility. So the current high-end IMAC is a 5K screen, right? And there's a rumor that the next IMAC is going to have an 8K screen. Come on. 2016.

You know what I want? Cinema display. Yes. The cinema display is still what? Is it still 1080-1080? bust. I don't even know. 1920 by something, something. Yeah.

And MacPro, definitely not. No, no. But even if they do, it's like, who actually cares? I'm sorry, it's like, it's something that no actual human buys unless you do a lot of video. All right. All right. Peter, take it away, Surface 3. Take, well, you tell me about the Surface 3.

You know all about it. I didn't review it. I was just talent. We did a video and I was on the microphone. I was the talent for the video channeling Tom Warren's opinions. I didn't. I've only used this thing for a couple hours myself. So his-

Although, listen to this. Huh? It has three clicky spots for the hinge. Oh, God, it's so loud. Well, it's a table. So the Surface 3 is a new surface for Microsoft. Yep. And if you're confused, that's fine.

Because Microsoft has had a product called the Surface Pro 3, which ran full Windows, was basically really well-specked out for what it is. Yeah, it's great luck. And, or laptop, whatever, whatever it actually is. It's a great thing.

It's a great surface. And now Microsoft recently was like, hey, we're going to make a regular version of the surface. Yeah, so what's different is it's not

the surface. It's not running Windows RT. It's just running Windows 8.1. Running actual Windows. It's a little bit smaller, a little bit cheaper. Doesn't have a fan, right?

It's fanless. It's fanless. It's got an atom processor, which, again, sounds like, oh, that's the worst,

but it's actually like better than what you think of when you think of atom processors on netbooks. That said, like the MacBook, it can't handle heavy duty stuff. Tom thinks it's pretty good. I am a little bit harsher on it in terms of its performance under load,

but it's still like not bad. And the keyboard, you know, the keyboard's a little bit less than full size, I think. But even so, like, it feels fine to me. But the problem is, like, You can get the base model for $49.99. It's like, oh, hey, great, cheap. It's like the right price for a high-end tablet.

And it's got a 3x2 aspect ratio. So actually, you can use it in portrait mode. And it feels kind of competitive with the iPad. But if you're looking at just buying this thing just as a tablet, you're not going to have a ton of fun, I don't think. Because weird aspect ratio. You want the keyboard. You want the mouse. And you probably want to get the slightly more expensive version that's got 4 gigs of RAM.

What is the pricing of this? I think that. So this is $499, and then the keyboard's $130. And then if you want the stylus, I don't know. It's like another 50 or $80 or $80, whatever it is. So you start adding it all together, and all of a sudden you're looking at $700. And I don't know, like at $500, it's like, yeah, this is like something that if you love Windows and you kind of want something that can be a tablet every now and then and you don't mind the hinge. You have to like start slicing off.

Like if you want this and if you want this and if you want this, then. and like you're in that zone, then this is great. Yeah. But like, I don't know how big that zone is. And like I can see myself fitting in that zone sometimes, but most times not so much. Look, I know Microsoft and basically every Windows OEM is desperate still after all these years to make these insane form factors work. If all Microsoft did was make this device, but with a real keyboard. I said this on the last Vergecast.

And now I'm saying it. That's what Tom said in the review. Why doesn't Microsoft make their own hard? hardware like this. Like, what is the point of this form factor? Yeah, I mean, this is no, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's not for me. Maybe it's, it's, it's for other people because humans buy that machine, right? But like, I mean, for me, like, I still want to believe in the principle of the surface. I still want to believe that, uh, there is like a machine where keyboard is optional and it can basically be a tablet and it lasts all day and it runs, you know, full operating system. Like, I,

I believe in the idea of the surface. But it's been three and a half years, however long it's been. And they still haven't made the thing that makes me go, yes, I'm in that sweet spot of the perfect customer for this thing. And I'm just thinking if Apple did this too, would I be interested in something that detaches like that? I don't know. Really? Because if Apple did anything, you... No, I'm not buying the MacBook.

Oh, okay, fair. Yeah. And I'm not spending crazy amounts of money on the watch. When's your watch arrive? Mine doesn't arrive until like late May. That's because you're a buster. What? Dude.

Just because I didn't have the app on me when the pre-orders came. See, that's the secret. If you don't have, we learned that with iPhone 6. If you don't have the app, you're screwed. Yeah, I had to wait like an extra four minutes or five minutes. Is that all it took? And you got pushed out to May? Our producer, Jordan, who's sitting in for John, has just said something to me.

Oh, wow. Wow. He ordered with the app. Yeah, so I got my email at 303 in the morning. So. Saying that your order was. saying that it was done. Yeah.

And I still have delivery for 24 to 5. So hopefully next week's Vergecast, I will be dripping in sweat because my watch will be somewhere on this. Well, actually, your watch probably is already somewhere. It's just not in your hands. On my wrist. Right. It's probably already been made. Let's put it that way.

I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. So the surface, I don't know. It's like cool. Microsoft. I'm glad you're doing that. But do they announce numbers of sales? Do they do hardware numbers?

Yeah, they have. Yeah? Is the surface, I mean... It's not a huge stuff. They had to write down that one, right? Like, they had to do one. So the Surface 3 Pro, I'm sure Tom is listening to this, Pro 3, excuse me, is better performing than previous surfaces for sure. Yeah. No, and rightly so, that that's a really. That's a really. really, really nice machine. Right. And that hinge that it like smoothly works at any angle.

You're like, oh, yeah, this makes sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing, and the Surface 3 does the same thing where the keyboard has a little magnet so it like angles into the actual tablet so it's more stable. Like it's lappable. Yeah. So I will say I love this color.

It reminds me of the old Nokia phones. Yeah, this is dope. This cyan is dope. Right? It's good. This keyboard feels really great. Yeah. Like the track part of the,

is way too small. The track pad is entirely too small. It's miniature. And it's because they're trying to force you into touching the screen, right? No, it's just because they needed to make a keyboard as big as possible, but still fit the overall outlines of the device. There's just no other place to stick a track pad on this thing. Yeah.

I mean, look, if you're... This is the feeling. Like, Microsoft is cool again. We all believe it. And we want them to succeed because the hardware, it's not like, like jewelry quality. Oh my God. This is the most beautiful. thing I've ever touched, but it's like really quality, especially at 500 bucks.

If you're a college student out there listening to this Vergecast or a human out there listening to this Vergecast that uses a surface as your daily driver, not if you own a surface and it sits on your shelf. If you use a surface for work or school, please email me and tell me your experience and describe it to me in detail because I'm genuinely interested. Because I use my MacBook in a lot of different positions. Like it's on my desk. then I could bring it on my lap and then I can lay in bed with it on my chest,

I could sit on the couch in, you know, and this thing just feels ergonomically. You know, I was asking Dan who was playing this with this for a while. Lapability is not the best with this thing. The other surface is definitely better because it has that infinite hinge. The Pro 3 has the infinite hinge. But yeah,

it's definitely a nice device. Don't get me wrong. I just, it's, I don't see why you would buy this over a, you know, $400. touchscreen laptop with a real keyboard

that folds. Why even a touchscreen laptop? Why not just a laptop? No one, to this day, no one has convinced me that I need a touchscreen on my laptop. Yeah. Well, it's not a laptop. Well, on my way, I just took the surface off the keyboard. Yeah, but there are, there's no shortage of laptop, not for Microsoft, but there's no

shortage of laptops on the market with, with touchscreens. Those exist. Right. Those are a thing. So I think before I let you guys go and, kick you out to read ads and also talk to about Star Wars

because that's what I actually want to do. Sean O'Kane put up a really great piece about Formula E, electronic car racing. Oh, yes. He did. And, Chris, I would like for you to explain to me what this is and why I should care because I get NASCAR. I don't, I'm not super

into it, but I understand it. And I kind of get standard indie car and I guess this is the same thing. Chris is our resident. No, this is our expert. So it's Considering how similar the cars look to F1 cars or indie cars, it's actually shocking how different the series actually is. Okay. So there are a variety of constraints imposed by the fact that these are electric vehicles. They're all electric.

There's no gas whatsoever. So the weirdest thing that these guys have to do is halfway through the race, they have to pit, physically get out of their car, run to a second car, get in, and keep going. Oh, wow, because the battery's dead. Right. They can only go like 35 to 40 miles on a charge, I think. So that's one difference. Two, they can only do road courses right now because the longevity of the battery is largely dependent on regenerative braking, which they do on a road course. On an oval course, like you're more prone to see an Indy car, there is no regenerative braking because you're always going full out.

You're going 200 miles an hour full time. And that's another thing. These cars don't have the top speed of a traditional indie car or Formula One car. There are a lot of constraints, but they're working pretty well within those constraints, I think. And as Sean points out in the piece, and I think this is very true, that the specific constraints in Formula E in many ways make it more interesting. They try to fit the entire race into a single day, which makes it a more accessible experience than going to a NASCAR race where you basically have to get there on Thursday and camp out until Sunday. Yeah, but that's the fun. It's part of the fun.

Have you ever been to a NASCAR race where you did that camping? No. I have. You've been to a NASCAR race? Yeah, dude. Las Vegas. It was amazing. Why?

There were people like riding, people made trains out of like lawnmowers and were just riding around the camps, just hanging out. They did like, like, trailer them up and a different person would lead it. Most NASCAR thing I've ever heard. It was great. It was. That is, that is Merca for you. The amount of like drinking there is beyond anything I could describe.

I can imagine. No, don't give me wrong. There's certainly an appeal to that, but I think that there's also an appeal to like, I have an afternoon to spend. I'm going to go check out this cool race. So is it snooty? That's one of the reasons I don't like F1. I feel like everything there is like a little bit.

Well, FIA, FIA as an organization, which is Formula East Parenthood organization, just like F1NWRC, is a snoot organization. And it will be as long as Bernie Ecclestone is in charge. You could just keep, you could make up acronyms and names at this point. And I would just be like, yep, okay. No, I hear you. Yeah, yeah. Look, I go, the goodness. Shmorgan is still running the show over there.

and the McGregan family is well known for being pretentious jerks. If you look up Bernie, you'll find plenty of backstory and why he's a terrible human being. But anyway, I think that Formula E is pretty well insulated from that because it's young and it's run by a different group of people. And it's very, very clearly the future. There are so many really talented drivers involved with this series who are very passionate about it.

And young people appear to be very interested in it at the same time that NASCAR rating. are going down. So I think that they have a good opportunity to capitalize on some mojo here if they can keep it going. So are they going to do, like, the way the NASCAR worked is they, there was really personality driven, right? And like you got into like the racers and the teams and like the soap opera infighting

and all that stuff. And then I feel like most other racing is just like the tech, the cars, you might care a little bit of the drivers, but you like, you pick your team and then you just kind of, it's more straightforward. Is this going to, are they going to try and go NASCAR soap opera e on it? Well, so in F1, I think that personalities play a role. In Formula E, Sean tells me that they are, FIA is very bad about giving spectators access to the drivers and the paddocks after the race, which is an integral part of the NASCAR experience, right? Like, it's really important that you be able to interact with the drivers that you like.

Yeah, well, don't like a lot of NASCAR tracks have like RV camps in the middle of the track. Right, exactly. And in Formula E, they're not doing that yet. So we'll see. I agree. Also, would they let an RV anywhere near Formula E? Probably not. Because they're Snooty, right?

I don't like snooty. I mean, if you brought an electric RV, maybe. I don't know. I don't know if that's the thing. All right. Guys, I'm going to go to take us to the money zone. Okay. Are you ready?

Bring us there. Do it. All right. I'm going to prepare a snap. Have you ever worked with the corporate intranet? Sam, not internet intranet? I have not. Well, if you have, you know that it's usually really painful.

It's usually really crappy. Everything on it is stale. Nobody keeps it up to date. It's really ugly. It's really hard to use. You can't get to it on your phone. Well, there is an intranet made by a company called Igloo, and it's actually designed for the user.

It lets you flexibly get your work done how you want, where you want, and on whatever device that you want. They're building an internet that's meant for 2015, not for 1997. I've used internets that were meant for 1997. I used internets in 1997. And you know what? Didn't enjoy it. Not fun.

I'm looking at you, Pillsbury. Your internet was terrible. Igloo, however, is built with easy to use apps. It has file sharing, calendars, social news feeds, and task management. Everything on it can be social with comments and like buttons right there in your internet. Anyone can add content, but there are permissions to make sure that nothing goes wrong. and there are drag and drop widgets and wizzywig editors for the text boxes. Igloo also makes use of responsive web design,

so it looks fantastic on all of your devices. So you probably want to sign up. So go to igloo software.com slash vergecast, and you'll get a free trial, and you can get started right now, today, this very moment. Right now. Right now. Today's episode of the Vergecast is also brought to you by Squarespace.

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So I've been using Periscope. Oh, no, we should talk about Twitter's new. We should, sorry. Steam rule. Tell me about Twitter's new homepage for logged out users. Oh, okay, fine. Yeah, yeah. We could talk about that.

So up until yesterday, Twitter.com or Twitter, if you were logged out, was pretty bad in design. If you went to Twitter.com, you just saw please sign up. And that was like all you could do. And here's the crazy thing. I'm totally stomping along with you. I'm sorry. It only had, it had, I'm sorry, it only had that thing for how many visitors do you think went and saw that page? 125 million.

Like, that's the number that we heard. That's a lot. It's a lot of people. Yeah. It's peanuts. Yeah. Okay. No, I actually in, I don't remember what class it was.

I was an IT major at Rutgers. And I remember taking a class and evaluating homepages of social networks and like Facebook's homepage and Twitter's homepage. And I feel like it was like maybe Pinterest and Tumblr. They all looked similar in the sense that, right, you said, Dieter, like, they want you to sign up. They assume that everyone that's going to that homepage, you know, wants to sign up, maybe. And that was probably not the right approach to Twitter to get to the meat of this. Twitter redesigned its homepage.

And I'm just going to go to Twitter.com on my browser because I can talk about it better like that. But now when you go to Twitter.com, it has this nice blue box up top that says, see what's happening right now. Find community conversation and inspiration. there's no Oxford comma there which bothers me. Find community conversation and inspiration about the things you love. So you could search Twitter right from the homepage now and it's like right there and prominent. And then there are, I think it's 18 boxes of various types of content.

Celebrities, politics, general news, country artists, tech blogs and reporters. Okay. It's right there. If you go to Twitter.com and you look at like news, there's like, journalists and analysts and reporters and you go to, I don't know, entertainment and there's stars and critics

and you look at science and it's science, news, and journalists. And then tech blogs and reporters. You guys, Emily is trying to sit down really quietly. She's trying to not be interruptive. When I hear the word... We're just killing time so that before we can talk about what we really want to talk about.

When I hear the words, tech blog, I just, I just cringe to myself, like, I run a tech blog. Like, ugh. Hypecheck Twitter.com. It looks really nice right now. I got to say it's, it's, like, probably like seven. Twitter.com? Twitter.com.

They redesign Twitter. I go to that website a lot. Wait, Emily, you use Twitter in the browser? Yeah. Interesting. Why would I, why would I torture myself? With an app called Tweet deck? Yeah, I hate that thing.

Information overload. I've used Tweet deck. I used to use Tweet. Back in the day. Oh, Hootweet. I've used, I don't know. I'm getting horrible Southbite flashbacks right now. Oh, my God.

No, that's all that Hoot Swee is to me now. Like, it used to be my main console for an old job that I had. And now I just remember the Hoot Suite mobile. The mobile. Yeah. Okay, so now that we've got the... I could keep talking about Twitter, but I think... More importantly.

So, Dieter's very excited. I really can't want to see that movie in theaters. Holy. I am excited. And I haven't even seen all the original Star Wars, and I'm excited about that. Come on. Okay. Okay, okay.

Let's type of check Sam. We were going to talk about the new Star Wars trailer. We're going to talk about the Force Awakens, but no, we're going to spend the next 45 minutes talking about the fact. Sam, why are you excited about it? If you have it, you have no idea how many times I've seen every single Star Wars movie, including the prequels. I just watched, I just watched two prequels last night. Okay. I've obsessed over these movies for most of my life.

and adult life. I'm sorry. And I am dead inside right now. I'm just dead inside. I'm just dead inside over it. I don't know, man. You don't think this is going to be good? It's going to be great.

It's going to be fine, but it's like, I want to wait. I want to wait and watch the damn thing. Like, I don't, I cannot, I cannot stand all of this, like, it's a convention, before a day convention about like four pieces of content, like, like a couple movies and a video game and the TV show. Like, but mostly about the movie and a trailer. for it. It's like, it's out of control. I'm sorry, I'm hype checking this thing. Thank you, and it is probably like, you guys want to switch places?

I mean, no, and this is the thing. It's like I, this is my strongest fan relationship with any property that exists is with Star Wars. And you don't, you're not, you're not hyped. You're like actually burned out already? I'm burned out all right. I want to wait. Like, I'll get excited. Like, this is the thing is like, I want to be excited in the weeks leading up to the film coming out. And And it's like, yeah, I just don't want to think about it until then. Like, what are we, we have to maintain this through to Christmas. Like, do we really want to know every single plot point? So far.

And like, you get no plot points from that trailer. I know, but like that, then the panels and stuff is just like, you get some. You get some. It's the future. Somebody's in charge of the clone army. Yeah. And that somebody is not the empire because they have a different logo. Yeah.

Yeah. A whole different thing. What's up? I'm excited. The Sith are back. You know that. Well, the hand. Maybe they're like new Sith.

That frame is so sick. Dark Force like Ackleight or something like this. Right. Could be the Sath. The sad. The SIDS. You know. No.

Rough. Sorry. So like. But how awesome is the idea of them like flying around through the ruins of a Star Destroyer that's been like marooned on a planet? That's cool. Like I like, yeah, I like, I like that shot. It's cool.

It's like. Like, it's just enough of a nod, and it's not, yeah. I mean, a lot of the other stuff is just like, we're going to bring back everything. Like, I don't know. I think that I was almost more excited about the first trailer because it seemed to have more whole cloth reinvented stuff in it instead of like, ah, now we just got Luke talking.

And then you get a shot of Chewy and Hahn at the end. It's like, I am excited about a new story, and I'm excited about, like, you know, figuring out what, you know, the different characters are going to be or what their rules are. I'm going to say a weird thing. I have a weird thing, too, but you go first. Okay, so I'm willing to see this work and work really well more than the prequels because

it's the difference of having an established property and then making a prequel series that depends on the future. And now you have something that's set in the future of this previous property. So, like, you have all this, like, narrative, like, like, bork that's already been done that you can just extend as opposed to, like, we have to build this background and kind of makes sense, even though, like, you kind of have to realize Darth Vader should know that Luke Skywalker is his son because he has to say him last name.

So, right. What a coinky day. Right. So, like, this should probably work as well as girl meets world works as compared to boy meets world. Wow. So, because, like, you have all these background characters that you don't need to know. Uh-huh.

But if you do know them, then it's amazing. Like, what background characters? Like, you have Mr. Feet. Well, you don't. You have Corey and Sean. No, you got to use Star Wars. No, I thought maybe, like, I'm like, oh man, Mr. Feeney, what race is he? What alien is he?

That's awesome. You have Luke Leia, you have Han, you have Chewy. But you still have the central characters who are the new characters that you're supposed to care about. Right. So like if they're like, they're setting up a structure of like the three people. Right. So that there's that same sort of core dynamic amongst the main characters.

I'm hoping. That's just like a good formula I think that they have. So if you pull that down and it works, then, oh, you have this like expanded universe so it's like cool shit that's happening. Right. The weird thing I was going to say

is watching the trailer, Luke Skywalker, not very good at building a fire. Darth's helmet was like only like one quarter melted. I bet it has been built to withstand a lot of stuff though. I mean it is Darth Vader.

He's got to have some I mean yeah, it looks like it's sort of melted over a skull, kind of assumed the shape of the skull. It's like still some structural. integrity of the skull was just actually more surprising. Let's get deep on this right now, you guys. Yeah, I don't know.

New Storm Troopers, sort of. Yeah. They look different. 30 years go by, things kind of like round out a little bit. The thing that I'm happy about is, because I just watched the first two prequels to get right, because the things just came out on iTunes and Google Play and whatever else. Right. The thing that I realized I didn't hate as much...

I mean, the thing I hated the most, and I forgot how much I hated it, was these movies have got these giant, like these giant war battles, that, like, feel like they have no real good stakes, and there's no... It's all feels very CGI, and there's, like, just hundreds and thousands

and tens of thousands of droids and troopers running around everywhere. Sure. And, like, the camera is always at, like, 10,000 feet at this stuff. Mm-hmm. And like I don't see that here. Like all the action is right there on it.

There's not massive numbers of droids. Like those are the best action sequences of Star Wars, whether it's the speeder, chase, or any of the dog fights. It's like it's like just two things and just exciting to watch. You know, it's like a Fast and Furious movie. Like it's not, yeah, it's not this huge abstract thing with all these little, you know, artificial intelligence units clobbering each other. And it just looks like a video.

game. Like there's actual identifiable ship characters that are interacting with each other. It's an benefit of practical effects? Let's talk, like, this is happening because Star Wars celebration is going on and this is the thing you're talking about Emily. Like, what is this thing? You guys watch the whole live stream. I didn't see any of it. I didn't watch it. I saw it live stream.

So basically you had Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Aram's trotted out for this massive event for fans and for press and everything like this about the massive property of the Star Wars is now. And you had all the stars come out. The new ones, John Boyega, Oscar I said and Daisy Ridley. You had the old stars,

Sands Harrison Ford because he's injured or convalescing. Also too cool for school. Yeah, totally. You had the droids. So like you know, ball droid is hanging out. Yeah, BB8, right? Yeah, BBB8. BB8. And Tom, what? Like, so they actually...

They actually have like a ball rolling around with the head floating on it, mechanically working live on stage. Magnets. Can we talk about that for like four seconds? How does that work? How does that work?

I bet that's not real. I was blown away. That's a puppet. No, Brian, Brian was there. Creature shop. Brian was pretty convinced that it was real. There's like a little tiny person there holding a giant magnet and running around.

Like a hamster inside a ball. Yeah. I don't know. I could see that working. I don't know. I don't know. Robbits. Cats.

Small forest creatures. I was talking. Ryan briefly before this started and he was talking about, you know, he's going to be doing a write-up of this, but just talking about how the fandom of Star Wars is sort of the most historically put upon or abused fandom

of like the major franchises and how now there's just this outpouring of joy because they're getting the love that they want or feel that they deserve. I would have thought that would have been Trek actually but like... No, Trek might have had low points

so they never had like as low. So here's my question. With all these new fans, like, or old fans coming back, are there fans that, like, had been sticking with it the whole time that are really mad at all these nobs coming in and pretending like they, like, they didn't stick around for the bad times so they don't deserve to be back now? I can imagine they're being a fan war. I don't know.

I feel like I don't ever get that sense from it of, like, you didn't stick it through because, no, but the people who stuck it through that didn't like that stuff. I think they didn't stick through it and, like, convince themselves to like it out of integrity or loyalty to their... I've definitely read stories of people convincing themselves that the prequels were great. Oh my God.

I have a friend who does a podcast specifically about Star Wars episode one. Like the whole podcast? Yeah, I've never listened to it. But yeah, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, it's pretty epic. I'm supposed to go on it soon. You totally should.

Yeah, I mean, I think... I'm of two minds of the whole fan thing, though, because I think now it's like overcorrection. I think it's totally true that Star Wars fans have been through some hard times And especially it's like they have this dad who keeps like yanking away the thing that they like Or changing it or altering it and and there's just this very kind of there's not this all out love for the creator of the thing that you like There's a lot of angst there And now that it's just like you get everything you want it sort of takes away

So the fun of being a Star Wars fan which is getting to bitch and complain about your trilogy like you had to buy your trilogy off of eBay from like a laser discrip or whatever because you because you wanted to have the actual classic version right which I did back in like 2003 or whatever but yeah I don't know I it's it's a different landscape now for being a Star Wars fan for sure I mean Disney has just realized that like there's no end to the appetite that people will have for spin-off stuff products uh games games, everything, and they're just, like, doubling down on it, apparently. And so, I mean, I don't...

From a commercial standpoint, yeah, sure, why not? From a long-time fan standpoint, I feel a little, like, alienated by it. Well, I mean, they're going to... This sounds like the stupidest thing I've ever said in my life, but I'm going to say it. They're going to Marvel Cinematic Universe, it, right? Because they've got the core movies, but then there's going to be all these other... Like, there's, like, there's, like, there's, like, rogue squadron or what's a stupid thing to say?

Like, literally everything is going to become. that. But the Star Wars was a universe to begin with and they like there was the expanded universe, whatever, but now they're going to, they're going to chain movies together. So this is doing it. Transformers is doing it. Which is, oh my God. The worst.

DC is trying desperately to do it. Oh yeah. Yeah, we could talk about that forever. So how long is this going to last? How long until these giant narrative universes break down and we can not or is it just, are we going to live in this world for another? I think there's going to be a revolt. Like, I think people are going to revolt at a certain point because no other kind of, it's going to be, it's sort of like, like, class ratification.

It's like there's only going to be these huge franchise movies that make a bazillion dollars and have to make that much to keep the thing afloat. And then there's going to be, like, the movies that are not that are going to get tinier and tinier or tinier, it's just like the remove, like, you're taking out the middle class of movies, basically. Right. And I think there's going to be, at a certain point, people are going to push back from that, whether it's like filmmakers or people who just enjoy watching movies that aren't franchise movies, which, you know, there's some of, there are a few of us. Yeah.

I just made it up. Holy sure. But I feel like those middle class movies are, like, now getting pushed into feeling like lower class movies because some of them are just, like, going to direct to iTunes in a way that feels dismissive. Like, I want the idea of being able to release a movie direct to the internet in addition to theaters. and that seems great to me, but it seems like whenever I see it, it's like, oh, the studio thinks this movie sucks. It's still like a kind of, it's a vestigial thing of like,

oh, direct to DVD, like that's a dumpster type thing to do. But, you know, like a lot of films, especially in indie-level films, if they go straight to VOD or whatever, that's more people will see the movie, which honestly those film makers are probably more interested in that than necessarily making a bunch of money. Like, they want to break even and have a lot of people see their movie.

Like that's sort of the ideal scenario. for a lot of those sorts of movies. Yeah, I was just like in line at the salad place during lunch, and somebody was talking about their movie and how, like, they only had a streaming deal for it. And they were kind of complaining about it. And I was like, I was going to turn around to him and ask him about it because I was like,

that seems fine. Like now, like, if you get a decent deal for it, then why not? Like, more people actually see your movie. So, but yeah, anyway. Sam, I've checked this specific trailer. You know how I feel about this ready. It's excellent. I think it's really well done.

I mean, right now, hype checking it's 10 out of 10 without question. Maximal hype. Maximal hype. I mean, it just released the Star Wars official account, the tweet that it tweeted has like 20,000 retweets already. Oh. Oh, that's, it's a really good trailer then.

No, I would say the hype surrounding it, the hype surrounding it is definitely at approaching dangerous levels. But yeah. I don't know. I think it's really well shot. I love the color grading on it. It makes it look like it was shot in the 70s. You know what I will say. Oscar Isaac, and this has been proven a couple times before, because he gets cast a lot in movies that take place in the 60s or 70s. But he looks like such a 70s actor that when he's suited up like in his ex-wing gear, like yeah. Yeah, dude. Like this actually makes me feel the way the original trilogy did. I can't, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing him in it. He's amazing. He's a great actor. He really is. My one thing, so JJ Abrams is only directing the first one, right?

Yeah. Ryan Johnson was doing the second one. I'm excited about Ryan Johnson doing the second one, but I'm also excited that JJ Abrams is only directing one because I feel like he can't maintain through. Like, he did the second Star Trek one, right? Not impressed. Not good.

He walked away from Lost. I think Ailes dragged. Like, I don't know. He doesn't know how to, like, he can intro things really well. I think that's probably smart, even though I'm not a big fan of his, but it is smart to have him do the table setting. Because I think he's good at that, like, in a very, like, kind of whatever,

empirical way, or not empirical, objective way. Like, he can set up a thing, make you excited about meeting these new characters and stuff like that. Yeah, it's the follow-through. It's like, tying up the loose ends and stuff that he can't really do. So, yeah, I'm more interested in the second and third parts. Ryan Johnson's take will probably be pretty great. Better. Yeah.

It just has to be. All right. Any other Star Wars? I mean, there's a bunch of entertainment stuff. That's why I wanted you guys on. There's other stuff we could talk about. Culture. Avengers.

Take it over. Oh, man. What happened? Let's. Avengers. I'm tired of Avengers. I'm tired of Avengers. And this is.

High Czech Avengers. I'm ready for, I'm ready. Zero. Not zero. Yes. Yes. It's over. No.

It's not. Our international nightmare is almost over. It's not. Here's the thing. Aren't you, like, it just doesn't look good. It looks. Not good. Okay.

So having, it's one of those things where it's like the buzz is good, but it's, the stakes are way too high. Everything that's going to happen after this movie rides on this movie in terms of just execution and setting shit up and making you want to see movies like Ant Man, because it just has to. And I don't know if it can. I'm in. I'm bought in. I'm going to see it. I'm going to see it again. This to me feels like it's going to be like the, what was the really bad X-Men movie?

Oh, it's a three. This feels like it's going to go the way of three where it's just like too much going on, not very well maintained. Three was just like a change of director too, which was disastrous. Brett Ratner will never be forgiven for that. He'll never be forgiven for a lot of things. Yeah, no, I feel like maybe though, to your point, Kwame, it's, too big to fail to bring it back to economics. Like, they have this much stuff slated that's writing on the success of this movie.

I don't know. They'll hurt people in at gunpoint and get them to watch this movie. Like, it's going to make a ton of money. We cannot ruin the next 20 years of our slate. Like, if this isn't work out, we have to cancel all these movies. Like, this is a disaster. Right. I mean, and that's sort of, yeah, that's a problem with this.

Yeah. For what it's worth, I think, just by. By sheer force of will, Kevin Feigey and Jos Wooden will probably just be like, if it's not going to be amazing, it'll be just good, and that'll be fine. And they'll just move on and, like, keep getting you to the theater to watch the movies. And that's all they have to do. Brett Radner hasn't done a single good thing since Rush Hour. Nope.

And directed anyway. He's famously the worst. God, I had no idea. It was so bad. He's a bad director. He's not good. He has a job, and he's not getting it. What's cop house?

I don't even know. Comethouse sounds great. After the sunset, what is that? Red Dragon? Man, man, man, he did Red Dragon. I apologize for everything. Sorry,

completely distracted. Ant Man looks good. Are you? Does it? The trailer, I have a lot of problems. No. I mean,

I'm. It's a tiny little man. I'm sorry, I've been writing this song about gifts. And which Emily sings. I've been writing the song about gifts that I'm about to post a lot of, on the website. Oh, God.

Amen. And so now I'm singing everything. Can you preview the song? Mm-hmm. She's not happy about this. Not happy at all. You don't have to. You could save it. No, I'll preview it.

I'll find it. Let's drop a bomb on that, son. I'm so sorry. What? When a movie's coming out and you're so empty you could shout and a trailer and never seems to do the trick. When you must express your thoughts

about every single show. Shot, pal, I know the kind of content you should pay. I'm so happy. That's just the intro. John needs to write the music for this. You need to score this right now. Wow. Yeah.

And then there's a bracket. It says two times tempo because it speeds up. That speeds up. Yeah. It gets really like rapid fire like gifts like that. Yeah. Awesome. Gifts.

Gifts. Gifts. Gifts. GIFs. GIFs. Brian Gosling is in negotiations to star in the Blade Runner sequel. just broke talk about it movie experts

I'm for it sure Ryan Goslin's cool I'm for it I want to see his movie that he directed I've heard nothing but good things about it I'm interested in Ryan Gosling

the director I think he like yeah I think he just from the sounds of it just like just the stuff in the I'm sorry now I'm talking about Ryan Gosling as director I don't know anything about this Blade Runner movie or like who's directing it is it Ridley

it is Ridley it is Ridley Executive produce is Ridley Oh, if you're executive producing Then I have faith that it'll be good, maybe I don't know This is one of these movies that I wish we're never Was we're not getting made a Blade Runner sequel That's fair.

I mean, I don't want it I don't want it either Again, Blade Runner, one of my favorite things Yeah, no Don't want it One of the best sci-fi movies The real version The real version

Oh, let's not do this So, I don't know if you're aware of this, but the longest email thread in the history of The Verge was we decided to have a movie night. And then we argued about which cut of Blade Runner we should watch. It went on for literally like 300 emails. Wait, what did, would you end up watching? I think we gave up because we couldn't agree. Like, it tore us apart. Wow.

Okay. Well, we'll table this for later. No, no. Where do you stand? The director's cut. Okay. That's like, after a while, that was the only thing you could even get. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I don't think I've even seen the most recent one.

Neither are I. No. What is it called the final cut? Or the cut ultimate? Yeah, I've played an interview. I mean, fine. We'll just make up a new, like, there are so many good new movies about Android and about AI and stuff like that. Ex Machina, like, anything. It's, it's her. Like, like, what? I don't know. I feel like we're doing a pretty good job with continuing this tradition of storytelling. Like, we don't need to go back and do it again. But that's just me. That's just me. Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, I want to see Lost River anyway. I'll talk about a movie that nobody's heard of. Yeah, what's Lost River?

It's his movie. Van Goglings, Ryan Gosling's directorial debut. Also, speaking of actors making directorial debuts, something I'd never heard of until today when it was announced in the Cannes lineup, Natalie Portman's first movie is going to be premiering at the Cannes Film Festival. That's pretty awesome, actually. And I don't know anything about it, but I will see it. When is Cannes? Cannes in a month. It starts on May 13th. And you're going.

I'm going. And are you... I'm just going. You're not excited? You're not happy? Oh, I'm really, really excited. Okay. I'm incredibly excited.

I'm trying to play it cool right now, but I am like, I am like, this is a This is my hype chick. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I think all my enthusiasm is going towards going in can, uh, and I don't have anything left for Star Wars right now, but it'll get, it'll get its turn. Emily, will you see Star Wars in theaters? Of course. Okay.

Of course. I'll see it, like, as soon as I can. Yeah. Um, you just don't want to think about it until it comes time to watch it. Yeah, because I just, it's, I feel like I've gone through this kind of thing with, I, I, I feel like I learned that lesson so early on. Like, I, do you guys remember when a trailer would come out and it was an MOV file and you had to wait for it to load in this little window?

And so you kept you kept checking on it and you would play it and you'd get, oh, I have like half more a second. Like that level, like it forces you to scrutinize a trailer and I feel like I've done that. Like I remember doing that for, I was really excited about Moulin Rouge before I came out. I remember watching that trailer a bunch of times. Like, yeah. I love that movie. No, I do. I haven't seen it in a while.

I think it was one of the first DVDs I ever have. It's not good. It's a vision. I love it. It's a vision. The way you feel about Moonla Ruge is the way that I feel about Romeo and Julia. Really? I actually kind of like that movie, but I also know it's objectively bad. Oh, I thought you meant, oh, you think it's objectively bad? I think it's objectively bad, but I love it.

I love Romeo and it is a successful movie. Basically, I love bad Leonardo DiCaprio movies. The Leonardo Capio with a little bit of like the lock coming down in front of his face, a little bit of a wet strand of hair. Like you always just got out of a pool. Like, yeah. I was never even into him in that area, but I don't know. I like that movie a lot.

Sam. Hey. Why don't you give us two socials? We're going to wrap it up. Oh, the cast is over. Yeah. Oh, man. The cast is over.

Wait. Oh, wait. Can we hype check Game of Thrones? Oh, okay. The cast is in one. for another half an hour. I apologize. So if you're not aware,

Emily has put together a fantasy league called the Game of Thrones where people on the Verge staff got to pick characters and you get points for wearing incredible dresses or performing a sweet execution or killer lines.

Sass. Nakedness. What else do you get points for? Incest. Incest. You can lose points. if you're in a bad plot, which, you know, we'll find out who gets stuck in a bad plot this season. But, yeah, it's a, if you can kill, I think if you kill a dragon, which I don't know if anybody's going to kill a dragon, but I put it on there just in case.

Right. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's so it's, it's not just about kills. It's about just owning the season in general. Right. Having the best moments. So two things. One, there'll be recaps that score these things up. And when you see the recap on our site, and it's like, this is, this is a post. about this episode. Yes, there's going to be spoilers. Oh, my God. Of course, we're discussing the episode. It's an episode recap. There might also be spoilers for something that happened last season.

Yeah. Prepare yourself. I don't know. I feel a little bit bad about that, but not really. Recap. You shouldn't feel bad. If you're reading the recap, you're going to be spoiled. Two, there's a spoiler coming right now.

The first episode of the season was an unmitted. mitigated disaster for our hero Dieter Bone and his Game of Game with Thrones fantasy team. Now, okay, I wanted to talk to you about this because you read the books and you picked Mance. And when I saw you picked Mance, I didn't say anything because I already seen the episode, but I was like, that must not have happened in the books. That the way that you died. Can I spoil the books and the episode right now? Don't do it. Don't do it.

Can I do it? Well, we already spoiled part of it. Don't do it. I wouldn't do it. We stayed for the end. Let's just say that it happens in the story. the books, but there's a twist. Okay.

That apparently is not going to make it into the TV series, but the twist would have been like the biggest, hugeest, like, oh, Deeter, you're so smart moment. And I don't think that I'm going to get a twist. Because he takes somebody with him? No. I can tell you offline. I can tell you right now, if you're listening and you don't want the Game of Thrones books ruined, close your ears.

But does this hurt my enjoyment of the show? I mean, who knows if it'll happen in the show or not? I don't think it's going to happen in the show. Okay. But in the books, it's not him. It is somebody else who is glamored to look like him, and he comes back later. Whoa. Yeah.

But you don't think that's going to happen? I do not because the actor said publicly, like, oh, I got the script. I was expecting to, like, have this thing happen. And instead, I'm only in it for, like, an episode. So, bye. He was great, too. Yeah. He's a great character.

He's a great actor. He's a great character. but for some reason in the TV series, he just came off as like this dour dude. Yeah, he didn't really get it. Yeah. Same thing. Like, I don't know, people have got lots of feelings

about John Snow in the series. I think he's fine. I think he's fine. I don't think he was that interesting in the books anyway. And he's fine. Here's the thing with John Snow. And Vox wrote a long thing about,

like, how it might be a problem, is that he's boring and he doesn't do anything. I think he does things, but he's constrained to the whole high fantasy, you know, dead people walking thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you think,

do you think that it would be What are the merits and what are the the disadvantages of having the wildings be white? Hmm. So there, the the merits are

in theory you look at Nordic countries on our planet. Right. Yeah. Those are some white folks. Yeah. I speak as a Swede. Right? Yeah. The disadvantage is what? Well, the thing is, that's the thing is that, like, I feel like a lot of the, the, the way that we visually relate to that kind of character, like, Manserator is like, he's been on this land forever.

Like, he's, like, an equivalent of a Native American or whatever. Right. Like, he's got this nobility and stuff, and he's, like, these dudes are just tearing up his shit and, and he can't deal with it. Right. And that it's just a little bit, he looks like just another white guy in furs on the show. Right. And it's hard to differentiate. Like, unless you are. really, really deep in the lore and you're like, oh, yes, it's a

wildling and that's definitely a different kind of person than the guys on the wall. I don't know. That's just my two cents about why it's hard to differ. Why that character doesn't stand out or seems to blend in with, also it's just the color palette in the north is very, very dull.

That's when I go get a snack. Anyway. I'd rather hang out in the north than with the Deneres and Marine right now. Oh, no. That's super. Just not exciting to me, even a little. Yeah.

I kind of appreciate that storyline, though, because it's like, I think it's fun to see a character go from, like, badass that everybody loves to just get, like, getting married in politics. Just like Obama. It's fun. It's really fun. Love it. Love it. If I had my druthers, though, I would recast the Starks, like Ned Stark would be Edius Elbow. Just putting that out there.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You would cast him as everybody, though. It's true. It's definitely true. What would you not cast him? What about?

It's your Twitter name. It is. A reboot of Orphan Black, but all Idraselva's. Oh, God. See, I would watch it then. I would too. Well, showbiz has our notes. They know what we want.

All right. Now, socialist, Sam. Yeah. Hello. You get two. Hello. Three. Just for the people that don't know.

Our usual. producer is, uh, was out today and Jordan is filling in. So just, hey Jordan. Um, you should follow us on Snapchat. Um, I say this every week. I feel like, but we do really cool stuff there. Um, I, there's no B for bust on it right now, so I might go film one after. You should follow us on Snapchat. We are the real Verge on Snapchat. And you should follow us on Twitter. Uh, we are at Verge on Twitter. Um, I am at Sam Schaeffer. Emily is at Emily Oshita. Dieter is at back. and Kwame is Kwame Opam. I'm the only one who doesn't use his real name.

Yeah, because he's too cool for school. And I'm going to... I can't tell you. And I'm going to lob it back to you, Dieter. That's all the socials. Oh, my God. Yeah. I got to.

Just leaving it on Old Hon. Old Han. That's one word, by the way. Old Han. We'd also like to thank Squarespace for sponsoring the Vergecast. You can find them at Squarespace.com. If you enter Offercode Verge, or they're 10% off. and you can also go to igloo.com,

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