The Vergecast - The hot new thing in headphones

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

Bose, Sony, Beats, and seemingly every other headphone maker has recently released a new and excellent set of cans. Or buds. Or both. The Verge's John Higgins explains why the headphone market is suddenly so great, how the companies are competing now, and which new pair is the right one for you. Vote for us in the Signal Awards! Vote Vergecast: Best Technology Podcast Vote Version History: Best History Podcast Vote Decoder: Best Business Podcast Further reading: The Sonos Ace Ultra are the headphones Sonos should have made the first time Nothing’s new flagship Headphone 1 Pro put you in the studio The Beats 360 are what I’d bring to the gym if I hated earbuds The premium AirPods 5 are the best open-ear earbuds Apple has made Six years later, Sony revisits its legendary XM4 headphones Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [e-mail] or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for the show comes from Sonos. Most of us here at The Verge are big movie buffs. When watching at home, I don't want that experience to be any less immersive than it would be in a theater. And sound plays a huge role in that. The Verge has actually published a few pieces over the years about how much sound matters to a movie. From headphones to sound bars, a Sonos system pulls you in. So far, you might actually think the phone call is coming from inside the house. Visit sonos.com and build your system.

Sonos, love the sound, feel the system. I'm Ina Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Nathan Lane. We talk about his critically acclaimed run in Death of a Salesman, taking his dog to therapy, and winning an Emmy for only murders in the building.

New episodes of Happy Hour are available every Wednesday. You can watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Cheers. Who chose your outfit today? You may not realize it, but the stylist behind your look probably isn't human. What we're seeing is that mall brands, fast fashion brands, they're looking for algorithmic inputs from the internet to figure out what people like and what will sell. And then they're making products that way.

This week on Explained it to me how the algorithm transformed. fast fashion. Listen Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcasts of MultiPoint Audio. I'm your friend David Pierce, and I'm back. Today on the show, we're going to talk headphones. While I've been out, John Higgins on our team has been writing about a bunch of really interesting new pairs of headphones and more broadly some interesting new headphone technology. So I'm going to drag John onto the show. I'm going to make him talk about all the things he's been testing and reviewing and writing about and see where we are in the

of headphones. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. This is 90 seconds on The Verge for Wednesday, October 7th, 2026. The first reviews are out for the Social Reckoning, which is the new movie about Mark Zuckerberg, Francis Howgan, and the Facebook files. The sentiment for the movie is actually kind of all over the place. It's at a 68 on Rotten Tomatoes right now, but I've seen good and bad and, frankly, everything in between, both for the movie and for Jeremy Strong's portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg. Like The Verges, Charles Pulliam Moore says, it's sort of hard to imagine this movie. hitting as hard as the social network did all those years ago.

That movie really changed the way people thought about Facebook. This one might just be too late to do that. But I do think there's another movie coming out soon called Artificial that might do it to open AI. Meanwhile, Microsoft just showed off its latest Surface devices, including the Surface laptop Ultra and the Surface RTFDX Spark Devbox. All this new hardware is expensive. The Ultra starts at $2,600 and it's the cheap one.

But it's also impressive, and it is very much designed for people who want to develop with AI. In case you hadn't noticed, Microsoft is all in on co-pilot, agents, and AI in general. Although, the Surface laptop Ulstra is also apparently the first laptop ever with built-in magnetic USBC charging, in case that's a thing you're into. And finally, we have what looks like some new leaks

on Apple's smart home plans. The company appears to be partnering with LG to make a bunch of new devices and accessories, like a smart lock, a thermostat, and a bunch of other things. Apple doesn't do a lot of blessing products made by other companies, So I'm very curious to see how all this shakes out whenever we hear more about Apple smart home plans, which might be next week. You can read more about all this at Theverge.com. That is 90 seconds on the verge for Wednesday, October 7th.

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Sign up for exclusive access today. We're just about one month out from the midterm elections in these United States, and despite all the gerrymandering and voting restrictions, legal challenges, and personnel shakeups. It looks like the Democrats are going to flip the House of Representatives. The vibes of U.S. Democrats are incredibly strong. It's mostly Democrats trying to tell each other, like, don't oversell how amazing of a night we're going to have. So on today, explain from Box, how are the Democrats going to mess this up?

Nah, JK, JK, JK. Let's enjoy it for while we can. The question isn't anymore, like, will Democrats flip the House majority? It's how big is that majority going to be? So on today, explain from Box, we're going to talk about the new sheriff in town if all of this goes as Democrats think it's going to go. Hakeem's House on today explained Monday through Friday afternoons in your feeds. All right, let's talk headphones. The Virginist John Higgins is here.

Hi, John. Hello. It's good to see you. It's been a minute. It has. It has. It's great to see you as well. I also feel like you've had kind of a busy fall. And this is like, I was particularly excited to talk to you coming back because my grand theory of this moment that we are is it sort of seems like this might be the best moment ever for headphones. And I mean that like non-hyperbolically. Like I think this legitimately might be the best set of headphones available to people that we've ever had. Am I, am I crazy? I want to get into some of the specifics. But it just seems like we've,

We've had this run of great stuff coming from all corners at all price ranges all over the place. Is it as good as it seems to me right now? I feel like it is. And it's strange because just a few months ago, I was lamenting the fact that there wasn't interesting new things happening in headphones. And I mean, I got what I wished for, right? Like the past month and a half in particular, we've had some really interesting headphones come out. And also just in the past week, news from Bose of some interesting features being added to existing headphones. Do you think there's something happening?

Like, is there something in the water right now, either technically or in supply chains? Is there something whose time has come in this space? Or is it just kind of a delightful accident that everybody decided to release great headphones all at once this September and October? I think it's a couple of things. I think headphones have naturally been getting. better and better as we learn more about how they work and what people prefer with them. So there's just that natural improvement that takes place over time. But then everybody's like, let's just do it this fall. Like late summer fall, let's just get stuff out. And here we are

with new headphones coming out that are interesting. There is something to obviously just the, it's Q4, it's the holiday season. This is when people launch these things. Like, they don't call it TechTember and Techtober for nothing. But I went back to previous years and we've gone through this interesting thing over the years. And you've been covering this for a long time, so you know this as well as anybody, where there have been a bunch of companies that have been kind of slowly leapfrogging one another all the time, right?

And it was like, Bose, Sony, occasionally like Senheuser would do something great, but there's this small set of headphones that are just constantly one-uping each. other, right? And especially in the high end, everything would get slightly better, but for the longest time, there wasn't sort of new, exciting stuff. You would just get the next model because it was very slightly better than the last model. And your headphones broke, get the next one because it'll probably be slightly better. This year, it feels like we've had not only all of these companies launching kind of all at once, which is new and unusual, but also it feels like there's a bunch of new technology that we've just sort of figured out.

And I'm particularly curious how you feel about noise cancellation because it seems to me that not that long ago, who has the best noise cancellation in like a high-end set of headphones was a big and important question and was a reason to buy one over the other because some really sucked and some really didn't. Now it sort of seems like every time you turn around, pretty much everybody has good noise cancellation. That if you want like a good set of headphones to wear on the plane to make the plane less loud, you're sort of spoiled for choice now.

Like, we've just figured out noise cancellation in kind of an incredible way. Basically, yeah. And that was the main leapfrogging you were talking about, right? It was Sony would come out with the XM4, and then Bose would come out with, I think the next one was the QC-45, and then Sony would up them again with the XM-5. And it was them going back and forth for headphones, and then Apple would come out with the Macs, or actually that was before. because that was 20. Once every 16 years Apple makes me. Once every 60. I mean, that's that's their

market, right? But they were pushing it with with earbuds significantly, right? So we got to the point, there's only so much noise you can block. Also, before it starts just feeling weird in your ears. Sure. I have colleagues that refer to this as ear drums suck where you put it on and the, when the noise cancelling activates, it actually feels like this strange sucking sensation to your ears because you're losing some of the ability to balance what's happening outside with what's happening within the ear cup. So for some people, it can feel really disconcerting. Yeah. If it's really strong. And everything is just kind of getting to be really good because other companies,

that might not have the millions of dollars to put into the research or the time that Bose has put in. I mean, Bose is the noise canceling company, right? Right. But they're able to learn from that and purchase some of that technology to put into their headphones that they wouldn't have been able to research on their own. So everybody's is getting better to the point where, as you said, that's not the reason necessarily to get headphones anymore. I mean, if you want the best, you're going with a Sony, you're going with a Bose.

If you want it to work with your Apple stuff as best as possible, you're going with the max too. But, yeah, that's not the defining factor. That's not the leapfrogging anymore. Everybody makes headphones that do noise cancelling real well. And down into, you know, anchor soundcore stuff does a good job. Good job. I mean, you can get into $40 and $60 earbuds from companies like Ear Fund that have been around for a few years and make bargain-level products that have great noise canceling, as well as other features and good sound and all that sort of stuff. So it is, it's pretty remarkable where we've come from just three or four years ago.

Yeah. I have this pair of headphones that I bought from the TikTok shop, this company, Pekun or Pekooner, or something. something. They're literally the most egregious knockoffs you could imagine of the AirPods Pro Max. And in almost every way, they are vastly inferior, except noise canceling, at which they are great. And it's just, it is one of those things. That was one of a really eye-opening moment for me. It was like these $40, obvious knockoff headphones have perfectly adequate noise cancellation. And it was like, oh, this is great. So to that point, though, is there a new arms race? What do these companies have left to fight about and compete on and try to one up each other for, especially at the high end of the market? Is there anything left? I think it's adding features that maybe have been newer. One of the ones that I've been most excited about over the past few years is ORACast.

I was going to ask you about ORACAST. Okay, good. Yeah. So just for people that aren't aware of what it is, I think the easiest way to think about it is it's a way for your headphones to connect to an open broadcast in the same. same way that your car stereo connects to an FM broadcast. It's not as far range, but what can happen is if you're at the airport. The big examples are an airport or a lecture hall or even at home, you can do it with some TVs like LG and Samsung include it with some of their TVs, although they don't promote it as much as I would like. But what it does is it transmits, a audio signal, an audio broadcast, that an oracast capable headphone can then connect to. And it's not like multipoint where you can only get a couple, you know, you can only connect

to a couple things at a time. Any number of headphones that support OroCast have the ability to connect to a broadcast. So you're at the airport and they're broadcasting out the gate announcements, which are very difficult to make out, at least for me. Sure, personal, gets fresh to 16. Right? That's my experience in airport every time. Was that my gate? Was that the gate next?

Who, who is that for? And I'm already stressed about travel. So adding the stress of not knowing what the announcements are is another thing. But then you can get those announcements directly to your headphones and be able to hear clearly what's going on. If you are in a lecture hall and the professor has a R-cast microphone, they can broadcast that directly to your headphones, so you don't miss anything that you might need to learn for the next final.

It's great for accessibility and people that have difficulty hearing or difficulty picking out what they need to hear from a noisy environment. At the gym, you can put those on, get the audio from the TV. You know, stuff like that. And block out, with your noise cancelling, block out all of that music that you might not want to hear. Yeah, Oricaast is one of those things that not that long ago, I kind of poo-pooed as sort of a solution in search of a problem, right?

Like, neat idea that you can connect a bunch of headphones to a thing, but what is this really for? And I think what you just described strikes me is exactly right, where it's the kind of thing that will be a killer app in a thousand tiny little pieces, right, that you can just, some people might have one specifically thing. Like my example of this is I have a newborn child who sleeps a lot, but is also very disturbed by the action movies that I like to watch at 2 o'clock in the morning while she's like feeding on top of me. And being able to like sit next to my wife and have us both wear a pair of headphones and watch TV is like an honest to God life changing technological use case right now. And not everyone will have that particular use case.

I spend a lot of time now finagling the Roku private listening thing through my phone, which like kind of works. But it is this thing that if you can just make the technology work more seamlessly, I think there's actually a lot of stuff you will start to see once a feature like ORACast is supported everywhere. So it seems to me like it is totally a solution in search of a problem until it's everywhere. And then we might see a lot of cool stuff start to happen. And it does seem like pretty quickly all these companies are starting to adopt it, which is awesome. Yeah, it's the adoption that's the issue. right? Because you need you need the ability to receive it in the headphones,

but you need places to actually be broadcasting these signals. Right. And it's like if one in ten people who come in are going to have an ORACast set of headphones, who cares? But by the time you have most of the major brands supporting it, it becomes essentially everybody is covered, which I think is really cool and feels like it's coming. Yeah. And the TV thing at home at night, I think is one of the best use cases for everybody.

And it's something that like Sonos is trying to, to do with their new Ace Ultra headphones by adding the ability, or they had them on the original ACE too, but being able to connect to your TV audio from a sound bar. A shockingly difficult problem in the world, given all the technology we have. But it is, it's cool to see that slowly starting to get better. I do want to come to the Sonos headphones because they're one of five models here that I'm going to ask you about specifically. But before we do, there's one other category I think is interesting, which is these open ear headphones, which not that long ago felt like a very sort of niche thing.

They were like the shocks open ear ones that you were with the headband, they were for runners. Now it feels like this is a really sort of completely mainstream new kind of headphones that are showing up. What do you make of open ear headphones? Why the sudden explosion in models of this kind? Well, when you're working out outside in particular, when you're you're running, you need to be able to hear what's around you just for safety. And for a while, you know, one of my favorite running headphones or series of running headphones, or I should say earbuds, were from Jabra. They made fantastic workout either running or, you know, at the gym or something. And then they pulled out of the consumer earbuds market. I was just about to say

Jabra is one of those names that I remember like 20 years ago shopping for and I have not heard the name Jabra in some time. It's been, I want to say, three years or so since they completely pulled out of consumer earbuds. They've reentered into sort of like work hybrid earbuds, things like that. But they were focusing on hearing aids and assisted listening. But that sort of those were great and it sort of left a void. were also, you know, you put them in your ears and they either have a wing or they have like a grippy surface to keep them in there when you're running down the street. A lot of people don't like the feeling of stuff in their ears. You know, it's not comfortable. I'm one of those people. Yep.

Well, I mean, you're, you and so many others and it makes sense to not want to jam something in your ear and then you're worried about it. Right. You talk about like the ear pressure and that sucking feeling? Like, I get that feeling when I shove something all the way into my ear canal. And especially with things that feel a little flimsy and you feel like you have to really shove it into your skull for them not to fall out of your head. I hate that. I have always been team AirPods over team AirPods Pro for that exact reason.

Yeah, that makes sense. Because they more sit in instead of or sit on your ear as opposed to really in or semi-open. Exactly. And I think this is why I'm so excited about the rise of open ear headphones in general. They just feel like they solve that problem for me in a really exciting way. Yeah, and, you know, they, there was the bone conduction solution that was around and is still, you know, being used. Now they use what, what marketing terms call air conduction, which is, you know, just how sound works. I was just going to say, I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure that's what sound is. It's unbelievable. But, yeah, the fact that they sort of sit around your ears, so they're not coming off. I haven't found.

any of these open earbuds where I've felt an issue like they're gonna fall out specifically the clip ones too. But they're shooting the sound into your ear. So are you getting as

good sound quality as you would get with something that is actually securely in your ear? No, you can't get that sort of base response. You can't get the separation from the ambient noise that's happening outside. But, as I, you know, you don't necessarily want that. You want to be able to hear what's happening around you.

And these allow you that. They allow you to hear music. They are secure. It solves a lot of the problems that people have when it comes to workout headphones. Or if you're going down the street and you just want to be aware you're walking at night. Maybe not you or I. but if you're a woman walking at night, you want to be able to hear what's around you.

Totally. And you might still want the idea, just the look of being separated from people so they don't bother you as well. So I think they serve a few different things. And, you know, are they the best sounding things in the world? No. Will they be the best sounding things in the world?

No. Are they fine? Yep. Right. I mean, I've walked around with them. The Sony ones are pretty good. But yeah, I'm happy with that series of stuff that's come out and that there's now a solution for people that want to work out that don't want to jam things in their ears. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm really bullish on that category in general for all the reasons you said. And because I think increasingly there are a lot of people who just kind of leave a headphone in, right? Like, I think it is so societally normal now to just have one headphone. Which is still weird. me. I mean, fair. I don't know if I like that. I'm also like an old man yelling at clouds right now, but like I don't just take them out. I can tell you from experience we're going to get a lot of emails on both sides of this argument. And please know that I hear all of you. But I do think that that thing where I can I can get enough information, right? I can hear the podcast. I can

hear the Siri response or the Gemini response. Like you have that little bit of latent connection without being a completely immersive thing, I think is a really cool and good use of this kind of technology. I still think most of them look stupid. Like the ones that just clip on your ear just look weird to me. It does not feel to me like we have solved this form factor. But if you find the ones that you're like, oh, these don't look like weird, bad earrings. I'm very excited to hear about them.

Here's the thing. It's hard to even find Republicans on the campaign trail right now. And it's even harder to get them to talk about Donald Trump. Ladies and gentlemen, bring up the next governor of the state of Ohio. But there's at least one Republican right now who seems to be trying a different strategy. Good to be in Parma. I think. I love the energy in this room.

If you take this out in 44 days from day, we're going to win this thing in a decisive victory. Who's ready for that? All summer long. Ramoswamy has kept up an unusually ambitious calendar full affairs, rallies, and town halls. Let's get this done. This week on America, actually, what is the GOP message for the midterms? And how are Republicans dealing with the elephant in the room? Trump's second term has flopped.

I think the Republican Party has not looked highly upon right now, and I think everyone knows it. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Before I let you get out of here, I want to, I want to, I'm not. I want to run through five of the specific models that you've talked about. And I want you to just give me kind of the, let's steal the Netflix rating system, which is, you know, thumbs up, two thumbs up, or thumbs down. Okay. Which to me is the only good rating system that exists anywhere.

And someday we'll get deep into my feelings about that. But I think there's a bunch of interesting models out there right now. And I just want to kind of get your temperature on a bunch of them. Does that sound good? Yeah. Let's do it. All right. Let's start with the nothing headphone one pro, which I think are a very,

unexpected and new kind of thing from this upstart headphone brand, nothing. What do you make of these? They surprised me. I'm going to be honest. One, I was surprised they used the stupid Apple

bra case idea. What if our case accomplished nothing and looked stupid? Is that what you're talking about? I mean, if you're going to steal from Apple, why are you stealing them? But beyond that, they have the nothing look, right? I mean, that's one of the things I think nothing does really well is they separate themselves apart from other headphones by having a very distinct and cohesive look across the line. So kudos to the design team on that.

They're also really comfortable. They sound good. I'm going to be updating my review of them actually with a score. But I like, for the most part, how they sound. I like that I can do a bit of tuning for my preference in a way that is just less harsh on the highs. But they, and they come with this interesting mode where it's called Flat EQ that they worked with a studio in London. and the idea is it's for mixers so that they can flatten out the EQ. I haven't done measurements for it.

I haven't seen measurements for it. I'm waiting for sound guys to do their measurements because they do great, great measurements. So I'm curious as to how flat it actually is. But for those that are looking for that, I think it's an interesting way to just flip a switch literally and get a different sound. So I will they're definitely a thumbs up

for me. Two thumbs up is a real high bar. I agree with that. For me when it comes to headphones. I'm curious if any of these are going to get two thumbs up from you actually which I'm excited to get into here. But I think I agree and I think it's been cool to see nothing

which has done a really good job with cheap earbuds. Like for $100 you'd be hard pressed to find a better set of earbuds than what nothing has made the last couple of revs. So it's cool to see them playing around at the higher end this way, too. $400. I know.

That's the high end. Definitely high end. Unfortunately. I mean, they're right up against Sony's. They're right up against Bose. They're right up against Apple Macs on sale, on significant sale. Yeah. So.

Next on my list, the Sonos Ace Ultra, a somewhat confusing set of headphones at this moment. How are you feeling about it? I think they're the ace headphones that they should have come out with two years. ago. I think that seems right. Like, what if we did the ace, but correctly this time? Seems like kind of the answer. Yeah, because the problem was, the Ace were, they were good headphones, but they weren't Sonos headphones, right? Like, they had that TV swap, but you needed a Sonos soundbar in order to do it. And I will say for the Ace Ultra that TV audio swap, you still need a Sonos soundbar to do it. But you can also toss audio back and forth with your Sonos speaker

system. So it's finally, you can finally stream music over Wi-Fi to them. The quality is still in beta, so hopefully as far as the bit rate and sampling rate, that will go up because it's not high-res at the moment. The capability, and that's sort of what you would want it from Wi-Fi is a high-res capability because it can do high-res because of the bandwidth. They're not like fully Sonos ecosystem yet because you need to pull the audio from another speaker.

So you can't group them with the speakers in your system. So while they are now definitively Sonos headphones and they are really great headphones, especially for Sonos users,

there's still that extra step that could just make them the best integrated headphone possibility for Sonos user. The AIS has always been so frustrating because it's not hard to look at and understand what it ought to be. If you own Sonos gear, you can see how it should fit into your ecosystem. And it basically didn't at all in any way that made sense with the first ace. This one seems like it's much closer.

But I agree with you. It's still not quite kind of a drop-in part of your system in the way that it ought to be. But they sound a little bit better than the old ones, which I was sort of on the fence about the original sound. They're super comfortable. I can wear these all day. No problem. That's huge. And, you know, they look like Sonos headphones.

Like, again, they kept the same sort of look. It's very understated. You're not flashy. You're not having that transparent look of the nothing. But, yeah, I think they made a real great move forward with those. So another thumbs up for me. I'll take it. All right.

Next up on my list, let's just do the AirPods 5 quick, because this one is for me personally as a constant loser of AirPods. The new ones seem like they are better in the way that every set of AirPods has always been better. Is there something to be excited about

in this new rev of AirPods? Well, they're cheaper. Cheaper's good. The top ends are cheaper. That's real. That is something. That's great. Yeah.

They have noise canceling, which is sort of a surprising thing almost on these I mean it's all these open earbuds have noise cancelling to some extent it's noise cancelling in like scare quotes for the most part well yeah I mean you can't it's not possible

they're trying their hardest it's just not a thing right exactly yeah but they do have better noise cancelling than you'll get from like a clip earbud for sure okay because they are they're not as open they're right while they are technically open I'd say like a semi-open design

because they still sit a bit in your ear so there's a little bit of occlusion happening blocking a little bit but yeah I there's still they look the same as the old ones the four

but yeah they're they're they're good Apple doesn't make crap right right but I think like literally for me personally I'm at Do I need to replace the ones that I have with these because they are so much better? Or is this like I will be happy with the improvement when inevitably the ones that I have get run through the wash and die?

And it sounds like it's the second thing. Yeah, it's the latter for sure. Okay. Great. I can live with that. Save me some money for now. I appreciate that. All right, two more quick ones. Then we're going to get out of here.

The Beats 360, which I think have a chance to be the most controversial one on this list. I've seen a lot of opinions about the Beets 360 over the last couple of weeks. Yeah. I am not one that wears over-ear headphones at the gym. I sweat and it gathers around my ears. So I am a earbuds gym person or workout in general person. But if you want to wear over-years at the gym, they do the job. They get sweaty.

They get damp for sure. I have an ear cup here. The performance knit that they have on it does do a decent job of wicking the moisture. And you can relatively easily, you know, clean it off. You're not submerging this thing or anything like that. So don't do that. Right. They are IP rated for the first time, right?

And that's something, but it's still not. There's a big difference between that and waterproof. I mean, it's IPX4. Yeah, exactly. So it's like the lowest bar as far as workout goes. I mean, for most people, that's going to be fine. If you're a heavy sweater, I'd be maybe slightly concerned. But, you know, one of the things that's kind of nice about Beats in general,

as far as part of the Apple family, is they have more personality with their designs. They can do more colors. Like, we're seeing more colors, or we have been seen more colors with the Macs, which is great. But it feels like maybe the beats skew a little towards a younger demographic with things they have. I've got my pair that I sent in here. And one of the things I love about these is how easy it is to just take off the ear cup and then switch it. That is really nice. You know, super fast.

And it allows for more personalization as far as your style, the, you know, you. buy the color of the headphones, but then you can also get different colors of the ear cups. I was just about to say you've got the teal headphones there with the black ear cups. Yeah. That looks kind of nice. I'm into it. Yeah. And these ear cups are actually like a vegan leather type thing.

Sure. The 360s strike me as headphones I probably wouldn't recommend most people buy, but that if you get them for Christmas this year, you'll probably be psyched about it. Does that make any sense? Like, I think about that sometimes. Like, would I be happy if you gave this to me as a gift versus is what I go buy it for myself. And these seem like I would be happy

if you got these for me as a gift, but I probably, if I'm going out and spending 350 bucks on headphones, I probably wouldn't steer you towards these. No, probably not. I'd steer you more towards, honestly,

for the most part at that price, I would say get a year old model of a Sony. Get an X-M-5. That's going to be on sale, which is, great noise cancelling, great sounds. I'd go that way when we get up to that sort of price range

in general. But yeah, the bows, or not the bows, the beats are nice. I like them. Yeah. I would not work out in them. I did work out in them.

But I wouldn't choose to work out in them. It's just not for me. Yeah. Well, this brings me to my last option, which is the Sony. I literally had to write this down because God helps Sony. They can't make a product with a name that makes any sense.

The Sony W.H. 1000X. M4Cs. Yeah. I could not begin to tell you where this sits in Sony's lineup. But these came out this fall. I would say my headphone heuristic for the last few years has been they're all good, but Sony's probably the best. What do you make of the M4Cs? The M4Cs are great for people that love the XM4s. Okay.

and wanted a new pair. Now, they have... That sounds like a dig, but those were great headphones. They were great headphones. Yeah. They were probably the most popular Sony headphones. I don't have numbers on that, but I would be willing to... Like, they fold up really nice, so they're more compact than what they did with the XM-5s.

Yeah, I have a pair around here somewhere. I love them. The XM-6s sort of came back. Well, I have... This is my XM-4 that I still have... It hangs on my desk. I still use it. And then this is the XM4C.

And they are the same. Boy, is that the same headphone. Yeah. And, you know, the fact that they can fold up and you can put them in the same size case that you had with the XM4s and, you know, throw them in a backpack, take them on the plane.

They do good noise canceling. They don't do the same noise cancel. It's basically in, inside, it's like the same thing. It's using the same chip processor. It's using the same number of mics. It sounds like it's a bit better than the XM-4s. But I guess the biggest thing is there is a replaceable battery.

Although I haven't seen details from Sony on how you replace the battery yet, but you're supposed to be able to get to have it be replaced. which that's, you know, that was the issue with the XM4. It's, battery's gone, they're dead. There's nothing you can do. Yeah, but it seems like the move is probably deal hunt one of the last couple of versions rather than chase the new one, unless the battery thing is really important to you, or you care deeply about, like, Bluetooth version numbers.

I mean, I think it's very funny. I always give this advice to people buying Sony cameras that, like, Sony has been making such good point-and-shoot cameras for a long time that the best deal you can get is, like, the three versions ago, RX100. And it seems like that might be a little bit true here with the headphones that, like, the M4s are almost certainly going to serve most people extremely well, even though they're pretty old headphones at this point.

Yeah, if you can find them. Yeah. I like, I, while I keep the XM4s by my desk, um, I kind of like the XM5s better because I don't travel with them, but they're more comfortable. So that's sort of what I like. I'm not sure if I would necessarily tell everyone else run out and get a pair of XM-5s over everything else. But they are of the Sonys that have been out, I kind of like them the most as far as how they feel on my head, the clamping force of them.

You know, headphones, because of different head sizes and shapes, it's really a personal choice. And I can tell you what works best for me and what I think might work best for most people. But really, it just comes down to trying to get a pair on your heads and to try it up. Yeah, agreed. My only two recommendations are never test a pair of good headphones unless you are prepared to buy good headphones because it will ruin you forever. And then once you decide to go for good headphones, try as many pairs as you possibly can, because I think you're right. It is a lot of those little things. So last thing, and then I'll let you go,

do you have right now a sort of Pat recommendation for like, I'm in that, you know, three to $400 range of high-end, really good mainstream ANC over your headphones, which one should I buy? Do you have a go-to answer right now? Three to 400? You know, I just said I wouldn't say this for everybody, but I'd probably get the XM-Files. Okay.

That's probably my answer, too. I'd get a used pair. Mm-hmm. The new ones, while they also, are all a bit better than the past few generations. It's not a huge enough leap for me to spend 400, 450, 550 for them. I intentionally left the AirPods max out of this price range because I don't believe anyone should buy the AirPods max.

Yeah, it's for a very specific type of person, I think. Yes, agreed. And I will probably get comments about that. I'm okay with that. I am fully, fully okay with that. All right, John, thank you for being here. Good to see you, buddy. Thanks, David.

All right, that's it for the show. Thank you again to John for being here, and thank you, as always, for watching and listening. If you have thoughts, questions, feelings about this or anything else that we've talked about on the show, please call the hotline 866 Verge11. Send us an email, Vergecast to the verge.com. We love hearing from you.

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