The Vergecast - The Hype Council is in session

Episode Date: October 23, 2015

This week on the Vergecast, Joanna Stern invades to talk about the Surface Book and the Surface Pro 4 — and Tom Warren joins the invasion over Skype. And for the first time, the Hype Council of Kirsten Frisina, Loren Grush, and Kaitlyn Tiffany sit in judgement of the Nexus 6P and YouTube Red. Along with Dieter and Nilay, that's seven humans. It doesn't get more Vergecast than this. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to this disaster. This is the Vergecast. I don't even know what day it is. What is it? This is 22nd. Deater's just pulling screens off laptops. I'm Nealai Patel. I'm quite frankly just super hungover.

And Joanna Stern is here. I'm here with string cheese. What up? Yeah, Joanna brought food and coffee to the Vergecast today. I'm happy here. There's a lot to talk about. And then I don't know why this. Oh, Tom Warren is on the phone.

Tom. Hello. Hello. So up, girl. Hi, Tom. Sub-girl. And then, fuck it, why not?

We have a hype council. We have three Verge people behind the desk. Kirsten, Christina, is here. You may know her from previous episodes of the Vergecast. Lauren Grush is here. Hi.

Hey. You may know her from previous episodes of Vergecast. And Caitlin Tiffany is here. You may know her from viciously sub-tweeting me during previous episodes of the Vergecast. What's up?

Hey-oh. What's the hype situation like? The hype council is like 11 out of 10 on the hype scale. Hype council is in session. Oh my God. What are we doing? This is, is this the most people we've ever had on this show?

No, remember one time we had the entire staff. Like in the, right when we launched the Burchcast, we like tried to out. And Chris, I remember Chris Sigler was, he was so mad at me because it was such an emotionally and like energetically draining experience to like have five microphones

and 12 people. And we, I don't know, it was bad. We've never done this. I figured actually you invited me because you didn't have enough people. That's usually why you do invite me. Yeah.

No, I invited, here's why I invited Joanna. Let me tell this story. As you may know, Joanna broke up with me in at Chulies 2 in Las Vegas. I don't hear you anymore. I think I ran over my thing and I don't hear it. Well, I'm telling the story about the time you broke up with me. I mean, I hear you in real life, but not in the microphones.

You shoot, you'll be able to hear Tom. I don't hear Tom. Tom, are you saying anything? I'm sitting here in silence. I think, can someone? the craziness. Technical emergency. And she like some sort of tech expert?

Oh, it's back. Yeah, see? There you got it. So I don't even recall this. But so Joanna, like I was I, broke up with me in a Chili's 2 in the Las Vegas report. The worst place to be broken up with possible. Actually, the breakfast there wasn't bad. It was fine.

But then she has now landed on her feet after this betrayal at the Wall Street Journal. And today, I watched one of her videos. Thank you for doing that. It was great. Great video. I highly recommend it. And I thought to myself, Joanna is currently wearing a jean jacket, has a ponytail, and is carrying a gigantic laptop computer. I need that person on our show today. You should have brought one of those props. I demanded the jeans. I know. All those props are at my office, which is actually not far from here, but I was coming from my apartment. Okay. Okay. Excuses, Excuses, Joanna. Wait, why is your denim jacket at the office? If you spend the whole show trying to figure out how to use that pen, that'll be fine with me. Anyway, this long story is to say, Joanna reviewed the Surface book this week. Tom reviewed the Surface Book this week.

We reviewed the Surface Pro 4 this week. Dieter reviewed both Nexus phones this week. Well, just the 6P. Oh, yeah, Dan reviewed the Surface Pro 4 in the 5X. Dieter reviewed the 6P. The hype council just reviewed our behavior generally at a remove. And took gorgeous snaps and videos and Caitlin did tumblers. Oh, this pen is impaired to this book.

So there's like all of that to talk about. And then in addition to that, YouTube launched YouTube Red. It's subscription service. Drake danced. That was the thing that happened on the verge this week. What else happened? Anything else? There's so much talk about.

Star Wars. Star Wars. And there was a Star Wars trailer. I spent my week in Laguna Beach at the WSGD Live concert conference. There was a couple of musical best. And Tim Cook promised the Apple TV. Yep. And promised that Apple will save the world, which he actually said a lot of really interesting things.

And I hugged a robot. Yeah. A lot of fun stuff. Yeah. I don't know. I'm totally days because I just spent four days at this conference barely sleeping. All right. Well, let's start with what I think is some of the biggest techniques of the year, which is Microsoft made a laptop.

Yes. The Dieter is holding. Joanna's got one. In your car, you're driving your car. close your eyes and imagine Deter holding a laptop of the screen flipped around

with this weird hinge so Tom you're on the phone tell us about it you're viewed it for us you I think I'm like deeply positive about this but you had some issues

yeah I think Joanna's had the same issues as well we should be full disclosure Tom and I emailed a little bit last week about our issues but Joanna emailed me saying I'm having these issues

and I was like oh I'm not and then two hours later I had the same issue What was the issue? And the issues, the blue screens and stuff. I mean, Marks was saying the pre-production units, so I guess we'll see if these issues start happening next week when they go on sale.

But I've definitely had a lot of blue screens with it. And actually, even after the review, so the interesting piece, the review went up, and the power button broke on my one. Is it because you were holding it down too hard? Were you, like, did it break when you were trying to hold it down? because I've had so many of these fail. Yeah, I was doing a periscope with two of them.

One of them the power button broke, and the other one it blew screen. I was like, this is not good. Did the power button break because you were holding it down to reset, do a hard reset? No, no, no, just turn it off. I've had to do such a hard reset this week that my imprinted in my finger. Really? You press the button so hard that my finger had the exact imprint of the power button in my finger. Can I make this about the iPhone for one second?

Yeah, that happens with the iPhone sometimes, too. Well, there's that, also, you know, when you try to scroll on a phone and doesn't do anything and you, like, push it a little bit, right? Like, that's your, now with 3D touch, now pushing it makes you feel dumber because if the 3D touch doesn't work or doesn't respond to you, you're just squeezing a phone hoping something happens. Yeah, and you feel like you're going to break the screen. Or like you're just a huge dumbass, like you're being trolled in literally multiple dimensions. Anyway, so Tom, so you had these issues, and, Dorena, you had these issues. but our surface book literally has a sticker on the back that's like this isn't FCC certified

are they going to solve them by the time these things had come out? So yeah that's pretty standard whenever they ship these units out it's just to say because they've hidden it from the SEC it's not officially certified and so they stick that label on the back but yeah in terms of the issues

I'm hoping they're not going to have these issues like when they roll out next week I think the issues aside from those blue screens and stuff, is that, yeah, it's a laptop, but it's also kind of a tablet. And I think in terms of the actual issues, per se, it wobbles, the screen wobbles. How is it, wait, Tom, I have a question.

How is it possible that I'm hearing the echo of your voice on the Skype connection before you speak? I'm hearing him perfect. Are you? He's very strange. I'm hearing the echo after he speaks. I don't hear him. Very bizarre.

Tom, there's at least two of you. One of you is ahead of the other one. Figure out which one that is and kill it. I'll have a word with the other one that's ahead of me. I'm telling him to slow down. I'm doing a little bit of the wild. to show it right now, Tom. I'm doing a wobble.

You're doing a wobble? It's a controller. It does wobble. I mean, Caitlin and I, we made a little, one of the new Instagram boomerangs today with it. And Caitlin, can you speak to, like, that connector? What did you think of that? How I felt about it is that I would break it in one day from just one time if you press on the button and it turns green and then turns ungreen and I get, like, pissed and rip it off.

Ungreen? Yeah, but it's got that muscle lock. By which you mean, rip it off. It would rip it off. Yeah, it would turn green for a second. And then I would turn red again and not let her take it out. And it was like, I was afraid we were going to break it, like, the whole time. No, so I took it, I had it for a weekend.

And literally the whole time I was like, I'm going to break this thing. But in the sense that, like, it's a beautiful thing, right? And I tend to break things. So I was like, oh, this thing is too beautiful for, like, me to have. But it's so weirdly designed that I feel like I have to have one. I mean, I should back up. I love this computer. Do you?

When this was working, I loved it very, very much. I wanted to be with it. There were times where I said, I'm going to get this for myself. Then it wouldn't restart, and I had issues, and, you know, those are really big issues. I mean, assuming that there's no issues, would you say that it's like definitively the best execution of a hybrid device that you've seen? I would say it's the best Windows laptop I've ever seen. And, you know, actually what was really sad about that, this review is, I had gotten, I'll tell the backstory here. I'd written my review. I'd spoken

with Tom, he had some issues. They had sent me a second unit, a surface book unit, because the first one had track pad issues and some of these blue screen things. They said we fixed a lot of these things in this new unit. Everything was going really well, so I felt like, okay, I can really write this review and talk about the great experience I've had. I had in there that this was the best Windows laptop I'd ever used and the years and years of sort of the scarring experiences I've had from reviewing Windows laptops, as many of them I had here, and I had them at Engadget and I had them at Lapt magazine before that. I mean, you wrote, I think Joanna has written the Why Does This Windows Laptop have a

shitty trackpad article. Yeah, I've written it for 10 years. Like, you've just been going to that well. Yeah. Joanna's like, I need some page use today. Let's write that trackpad piece. And every time they fixed it, and I had written this really positive review, and then the second Surface book, I was at the conference. I've been only using the Surface book. My MacBook

error had not been used for about a week, two weeks about, and it would not restart. Yeah. And it just did the same thing as I had had a Surface Pro the week before that the hard drive where the SSD completely crashed. Microsoft says this is not going to happen in shipping units. It's only happened in our early units. But I can't say the best Windows laptop I've ever used doesn't start up anymore. And so I had to kind of dial back the review at the last minute because I am worried that some of these might

make it to customers. And so I will re-review it when I get the shipping unit. I do think the execution of this is really, really well done. I have a lot of the same issues as Tom, the wobbling hinge, the battery life

and the tablet. Why did this have to be a tablet? Why did it have to be also a laptop? But because you can dramatically take the screen away. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. That's it. I think that's what it.

And Dieter's still just drawing. Once or twice in the entire time I was reviewing it. Yeah. And like Tom, I felt like we really saw eye to eye on that. Like, as a tablet, this thing isn't great. As a laptop, this thing is really good and could be better if it wasn't a tablet. But I actually think what Microsoft's...

Wait, how do you think it would be better if it wasn't a tablet as a laptop? What? Like, I mean, if they're able to fix some of these things that compromise it as a laptop, because it is a tablet. I think it's a home run as a tablet and probably as a laptop. But, well, the battery life is an issue with the tablet. But the wobble thing is because this is a tablet. Right.

It's because this hinge is unique. And I actually don't think the hinge is as ugly as Tom thinks. Yeah, wait, so you got no stuff stuck in your computer. You got no stuff stuck in there? Tom is like, I got stuff in this thing for day. What are you having your bag, Tom? I probably have a dirty bag. I probably need to clean it out.

Well, I definitely get it. I have a very dirty bag, too. It's sad. Hype check Joanna's dirty bag. Just dead silence for not a half-counsel. Not responding to that. Look, if you're going to have a three-person hype counsel, we're going to level up the difficulty.

Our response was silent, shaky hug. No, that was honestly the first thing I said about this hinge, too, was like, I can't own that because it'll be full of food and garbage in, like, a day. And, like, chunks of lipstick and stuff from the bottom of my bag. I stick it in my bag like this, so this is at the top of the bag. Your bag is stranger than everyone else's bag. You have choked?

It's a female bag. No, Nilai, your bag is emptier than everyone else is. That's what we're figuring out. Tom, did you stick it in your bag vertically or horizontally? Horizontally. Okay. And weird hinge top? Top up?

But like the point is that you shouldn't have to... Joanna is holding the laptop in the various configuration. Also, every time I put it in my bag, the pen dropped off. Oh, yeah, totally. I lost my pen. JFK security. Really? Yeah.

But don't worry, I have five other ones because I have five other units. Oh, because I kept on sending ones because the other one is going to have the weird, this is why I don't know what I'm saying, if you're going to have the weird hinge, why isn't that where the pen goes? Oh, inside the hinge.

Right? Isn't that like the perfect place for the pen? See, that's where I put my string cheese. That's where you put your, that's where you put your, close it, close it, do it. Well, in terms of having cheese in a computer, that's a first floor.

Joanna has just crushed a piece of string cheese inside the service book. I don't. My God. A, again, audio show. So in your mind, listener, imagine that you're,

wow. She's eating this. But there's got to be so much crap. She ate the cheese. I don't want your cheese, man. No, thank you. Come on, Dieter. Eat the cheese.

I'm not eating your surface book cheese. Tom, do you want a piece of the cheese? Did you get the weird ridges in the cheese? I'm coming to you, Tom. If you can get there in 10 hours. Can we get a hype check on surface book cheese? Does that him? change get hot? Can you like use it as like a little waff iron?

I really like cheese. The system doesn't get that hot. I'm super hyped on the surface question. Sometimes Tom does sometimes your tablet have a little bit of a fan noise? Yeah, I mean, I was playing games on it this afternoon. And that really gets, obviously, gets the fans going. I've definitely had the fans spin up when I've just been using it. No one else hears Tom's voice before he speaks. It's... I think Tom sounds very good thing. It's okay. I got a tweet about it. Oh, we're getting tweets about it? Are you, now there's just a side hype console conversation? So Tom, if they...

I'm taking over the show. Talking amongst ourselves. Tom, if they fix some of these bugs, you're going to buy this? See, the thing is I still like the XPS 13. Yeah, I'm hearing this. That is my Windows laptop of choice at the moment. Because of the battery and because of just... Well, the battery life on the surface book is great.

Yeah, I know. I can't get over the fact that it's top heavy and that the hinge is wobbly. Like when I'm using it in my lap, it just feels like it's going to go forward. See, I prefer this keyboard and trackpad and screen to the XBS. I way prefer the keyboard and the trackpad for sure. It's just bigger and the spacing is better and stuff. That's like really, I want to talk about this trackpad. Is it good or is it bad?

Well, you know, that's not as easy to be said in Windows trackpad. It's good everywhere except Chrome and Edge is what I read from the reviews. Well, Chrome just does not work well with it. Chrome does not work well on any computer. Google needs to fix that. It works okay on the Chromebook. Good point. Good point. I'd like to edit what I just said.

I had jumping cursors and stuck cursors. Another thing they said that will be fixed in the software update. But the scrolling's really good. The gestures are really good. And just like it feels a lot nicer than the plastic ones. It's just basically like a MacBook one. Yeah. Because it's a glass track pad.

It's similar size. Yeah. And the new Deluxe people, 15, the trackpad actually works really amazingly well. So I think this is the year that the Windows manufacturers really do solve this problem. Not only if you're winning to spend $1,500. But like, look, if Microsoft can't solve this problem, why would you have any faith that Aces could? Oh, no, they, yeah.

Right? No. No, and I mean, my big point here is, like, this is Microsoft's first generation out the door. Right. And like this is it. Like they're killing it already on the first one. Yes, there are these issues and hopefully they will be sorted out. But I don't know why you would buy anyone else's computer or Windows computer at this point.

Other than Dell. Yeah, if you got the money. Yeah. So why would you buy a Surface Pro 4? I don't know. Okay. If you want a tablet, if you want a Windows tablet experience and you love the pen and... You just super want a tablet.

But wouldn't you just buy this thing? this thing is the surface was smaller and lighter and you can like carry it around and use it as a tablet. But I mean, I don't know, Dan reviewed this,

but like basically looking at this thing, it was, they just made a better Surface Pro 3. They didn't change anything fundamentally about it. They made the track pad and the type cover bigger. They made the screen bigger. They made it faster. And they kept everything else the same.

It's like, it's designed for people that love surfaces. And that's kind of it. Yeah. And I actually think Microsoft is completely mastered now how to make a tablet, a laptop, and a laptop a tablet. Obviously, there are some, there are real sacrifices that happen. I think those real sacrifices are actually coming from Windows and from the chips that

they're using in here. I think had Windows RT worked out for them, had Windows been a better tablet operating system, and Tom, I know you've written about how Windows 10 is still not great on a tablet, these devices could be even more badass and be sort of what we're going to, you know, hope the iPad Pro does. So I will say, Joanna's video did not just address the 80s and denim jackets. And what I will say was an amazing hair moment for you. Yeah. But you're like, this is a whole, this is a vision of the future.

Yeah, laptops of the future. Michael Jackson said it. Why do you think laptops? Because that's like a, yeah, he said, I believe children on the future. and I think he meant. Laptops. Laptops. Weird, weird laptop babies.

I actually sing that in my head all the time. Does anybody at our hype council, Michael Jackson fans? Is that really good? Is he called a hype castle? I had that song he sing for Free Willey's second in my head this morning. Okay. I believe that laptops are the future? If I just say hotline, bling, does that wreck you?

I know that's hot. If I just say hotline, bling, does that wreck you? Does I put a different song in your head? No. Oh. Sorry. I literally played four seconds of it earlier yesterday, and Emily was like, fuck. I feel like I know more of the songs that people have parodied the video with than I do the actual song.

Like the Rugrats theme, I saw that, the video put up against that one. Wait, let me ask you guys a question. Do any of you have an iPad? Any of the three of you have an iPad? Yes. How often you use that iPad? Never. Caitlin?

I don't own technologies. The Birge gave me this laptop. I don't own technologies. I have a bag full of garbage. Okay. Kirsten. I don't have it. I'm actually thinking about getting one though.

Would any of you buy a tablet at this moment in time for any reason? Not right now. And you're just not going to buy it. No technologies for Caitlin. No. I believe you're working at the wrong place. She keeps her work at work and her non-work, non-work. Caitlin doesn't do electricity at home.

Kaylin, oddly Amish for some reason. She loves it. I just think that's really interesting. like Joanna's like laptops for the future thing. If you guys had to buy one thing, if you could pick a laptop, a phone, or a tablet, which one would you pick? A laptop. A laptop, yeah.

Okay. Really? What if? I would pick a phone. I can, you can do everything you can do on a phone on a laptop. It's just like kind of awkward. It's, but faster. What if, but what if that screen on your laptop came off?

If I could have a, like, if I could have an iOS device that would flip between the desktop version, like, if I could have OS, I can't say all these things right, if I could have desktop Mac and mobile Mac on the same device, I would do that. Like, if I could, when I pulled this screen off, it became an iPad. You'd like that. I would love that. I would buy that immediately. Right. And when would you use it? But that's kind of what Windows 10 does, right? You pull it off and it turns out of tablet mode. Yeah, that's right. But here's the problem right now. The tablet's both Tom and I talk about this. Bulky and heavy. The tablet is, is comprehensive. Right? The tablet has serious-

Joanna, Joanna, it's a digital clipboard, okay? I would ask that you refer to it. It's proper, extremely stupid name. The digital clipboard is extremely compromised. It's too heavy. It's actually pretty light. It's wide. It's wide. Yeah, it's really wide. For me, I have to be able to single hand. I love it. I love it too. Here's what, here's my reality. I'm drunk with power. I walk around this place all day, pointing at stuff, yelling at people, really doing nothing of impact. And to have a giant screen and a pen that made it look like I was even, even more of a 1940s factory manager, that'd be fucking dope. You need to deal with this.

Unfortunately, I need to deal with it. I feel for you doing. This is Virg Pass, not therapy. I don't know about that. I feel like this is where our site comes to really understand itself. But I think what is the future of these is that we get mobile processors in here, and we don't deal with the thickness and heaviness of it. We probably still deal with the width because the screen is big,

but maybe at some point these will like auto expand, and that's going to be my review in 20 years. But like those two really do come together because laptops are the future. Yeah. Tom, do you think laptops are the future? Well, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it's to do with the experience and the apps.

So Windows is lacking the touch app. So like what someone said a minute ago about combining OSX and iOS, that would be a pretty good device because obviously you got the IRIS apps and the touch apps. So that would kind of make sense. But on the Windows side, it's kind of like the Windows phone problem. You're lacking the apps on the tablet side. So converting it to a tablet isn't really something you want to do often

because it just doesn't really have the experience there. It's the same with the pen. It's lacking the total usage of the pen across Windows. I tried to write an email and just draw out, like literally just write an email. And the Windows mail client doesn't support that. And it's like just these basic, basic fundamental things. You can use the keyboard. You can use the keyboard thing to do that.

Oh, you mean you wanted to... I just want to write. Oh, you want it to like handwrite and like send it as an image. You'd think that it would know that I was using the pen and that I was trying to write. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the same thing with the apps. But I only use a tablet pretty much now for two things. To read Twitter and news at night. And then when I go away, I use the screen to,

watch like tons of movies. Right. Those are like the two main use cases I use for a tablet because when I read, I use a e-reader. I use a Kindle outside or inside. So here's my problem with the pen stuff in the digital clipboard mode. You know when you're typing in Word and Word starts auto formatting shit for you and it gets it wrong every time, but like it's trying really hard to guess write, I feel like that's where they're always going to be with like doing the right thing with the pen and converting from like writing a note to writing out and handwriting to and converting it to text. Like I'm going to draw now. Like I just don't feel like they've decided on what the pen should be able to automatically do in all the apps to account for the fact that nothing like directly supports it.

I have a question about the pen. How does it compare to like other tablets and siloices? So like if I had an iPad with like a pencil. Okay. So I know a lot about this because I tested almost every stylist last year and you are you a sketcher? Your draw? I wrote Hi Mom to the audience. That was impressive.

So maybe Dieter knows more about this too, but the current iPad doesn't have an active digitizer or any kind of active touchscreen that works with the current stylists. So basically they suck. Yeah. Right? Because they aren't connecting with the screen. Yeah, iPad Pro, from what we've seen so far, has a crazy, amazing, good pen. Yeah.

It's a pencil. Pencil. Right. Sorry, pencil. A $90 pencil or $100 pencil. Yeah. Like, you guys tested at the end. event, it was just so smooth and fast.

Like, I think it's, I think it'll be interesting to see how these compete. They felt the same to me. Really? Yeah. Like, having played with this for however long I played with it, and however played with the iPad Pro for how long I've, like, it's still, like, not real. Like, there's still that ever so slight, I'm drawn on some glass feeling, right?

Totally, totally. But they're both very good. Yeah. So, but like, these experiences are far better than what you'd have from, like, any stylus you put on an iPad or iPhone. but closer to what you get on a note. Yeah, right. I mean, it's funny because I really, again, drunk with power.

Like, my dream is to like look at a VIRGE article and like draw on it with a pen. You can do that. Well, yeah, with Edge, right? But then I just like... They show that in the commercials. That's the only thing they show in the commercials. That's all they get they show in the commercials. Literally when I demo it to my friends, I literally opened the verge and circled the homepage and drew the word bad.

And I was like, this is my dream. Like, this is all I want to do. My real question. Who else besides you wants to use that feature? Like, how is that useful to normal people? Everybody wants to be drunk with power. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, but like, genuinely, like, when would you want to draw on?

So I actually, like, this week I had to prepare for this conference, right? I had four big interviews, and I printed out as much stuff as I possibly could about all these people I had to interview. And I tried to do it on here at first. So I just was like, save the article about them and start highlighting on it. And the highlighting is okay, but it's not paper. Right. Like, it just came down to, I just want to have this stack. of paper and I want to be away from this screen.

But I think there's, and then I brought it to a meeting at the conference and the other guy was like, that's actually pretty cool because then I could just have the notes wherever I want. I wouldn't lose this piece of paper. So like there are these pluses of paper and then there are these minuses of paper. And I did a piece on it last year. Nobody read it. Yeah. It's fun.

David did a piece similar about it. No one read either. Who's David? Is he dead? Yeah, David. David, he's dead. David. He stole my idea.

He's with Sam, wherever he is. just terrible human being. Anyway, I love you both, David, and Sam. Should we talk with the Pro 4? Yeah, and I got that. I just want to say, I really, I am very super impressed with what is happening with Microsoft's hardware here,

specifically just with these things. Tom, actually, will you tell me about Edge real quick? Because you, I saw you tweeting today. Because Edge is the browser, like, you have to use Edge to do all the circling stuff, right? And you were like, I can't use Edge yet. Yeah, I mean, I can use Edge, but. I really miss the extensions.

And I think that's the same for quite a lot of people who use Chrome. And the extensions aren't coming until 2016, which kind of sucks. Yeah, they were supposed to be here by the end of the year. They were supposed to be here next month. Wait, since you've been using this, do you use Google Docs or Gmail in Edge? I don't. I don't, no, because I'm primarily using Chrome. Yeah, because it doesn't work.

I mean, and then I try not to use Chrome because it eats at the battery life and the scrolling so bad. But you have to for Google Docs because you can't copy and paste on Google Docs in Edge. It just doesn't work. It's like I don't want to use Chrome on a Windows laptop because the scrolling is terrible and the bachelor's terrible. And just the performance in general is just... Even on my Mac, I've started using Safari. Because the battery life is so bad. I feel like Mike's...

I know Caputown Safari is legit. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of had a good opportunity with Edge to like kind of reset the whole Internet Explorer mess. I feel like they've kind of messed it up. Yeah. Because of the extensions.

It's a good browser, but it's not finished. They need to do more to it. I do like it. I do like the mail client for Windows 10. You're a crazy person. Gmail for life. Gmail for life. Yeah.

It's way better than the Windows 8 mail client. Yeah. I mean, here are the apps that I'm really missing to go to Windows 10 full time. A really good lightweight photo editor, not Photoshop. and like, yeah, but like has advanced tools, a really good Twitter client. Yeah. And that's it, actually. Well, get ready for a flood of thirsty PR pages from photo editing.

What do you feel like you miss from Mac? From Mac, I missed like some of the touch the trackpad customization. Like I like to be just, like especially on the magic mouse, when I just flick my two fingers up on the mouse and it does my volume up and down. I miss being able to customize to do that sort of stuff. You can customize what the three-finger swipe does in Windows 10, but you can't really go beyond what they tell you. The three-finger tap.

Yeah. I don't know. Like, I have been super productive on Windows using this machine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I... I think it just misses a few things. Lac or not a work-related thing.

I can't... Slack. They have Slack. mark images and resize images. Right, right. Well, they need like a photo, like, I use Piximilator on. Pixillator? Pixelilator.

Yeah, Piximilator. How do you say it? Pixelmater. Pixelmater? Pixelmater? Yeah. Pixelmater. Pixelmater? Pixelmater, I think it is.

I think this is a really good time to talk about Squarespace. In terms of conversation, it is not good. I could manage my Squarespace site on Windows Town. Do you want to read the ad? Sure. Go to browser and your browser.com. All powered by Scorespace. Don't read an ad for your own website.

But it's actually an ad for Squarespace, too. Talk about, fine. Building the website can be, we'll talk about it. I built Browser and your browser.com using Squarespace. Another column I wrote that no one read. Building website can be tough. And even if you don't know what we're aware about coding like Joanna, creating what something looks good and what shows of time.

I don't know anything about coding. Can be a time-consuming affair. Whether it's our business site, a portfolio, restaurant, browsing, your browser.com. In this day and age, you probably need a website, much like Joanna's dog needs a website. Well, lucky for us. Lucky for Joanna.

Squarespace makes it easy to build beautiful websites without breaking a sweat. Squarespace provides simple, powerful, and beautiful websites that look professionally designed, regardless of your skill level, Joanna's turn. No coding required. It's actually incredibly simple. You're just pitching Squarespace right now. What's this URL? Browser and your browser.

I did a whole column about the easiest way to build your own website and Squarespace won. Right now Squarespace. There's someone at Squarespace. Like the CMO Squarespace, it's like, fuck yeah, it's all happening. Yeah, they're like... It's all coming again. together for me. First of all, does Squarespace spend all their money on podcasts? Does Squarespace? Well, certainly this one. They provide you with intuitive and easy to use tools to create your website.

Squarespace also a state-of-the-art technology powering your site to enhance your security and stability. And you know you can trust in Squarespace. Your browser. Not on your browser. Oh, my God. I'm just going to read this sentence again. Should I buy that too? So redirects? You can trust in Squarespace for your website. You need one millions of people in some of the most respected brands in the world. Joanna's personal brand trust in Squarespace as well. Seriously, you cannot beat the ease and simplicity of Squarespace.

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get 10% off your first purchase, show your support for this show, the Vergecast, this beautiful, chaotic show of the Vergecast, And thank you, Squarespace. Build it beautiful. All right, so now we're back in the content zone. But seriously, the CMO Squarespace, when you're like, it is good, I reviewed it.

That's like the goal. That's the fusion of advertising and editorial that every brand wants. Hypecheck browser and your browser.com. Are you guys all looking at your own dog right now? We made a new Slack room for people who are on the Verge cast. But secondarily. We have a council-specific slack room now. God.

Wow. Here's what I worry. Is it open or is it private? Oh, it's private. Okay, good. I want to know nothing about what happens in there. I was talking, I think Slack is a problem. Here's what I believe about Slack.

Slack rooms expand, like, fractally. Like, Ezra Klein is always like, we have too many Slack rooms of this company. Are you just watching your own dog videos? Yes, I am. All right. No, Slack is genius. Slack went down for me for like half an hour today. Can you even count? Can you even look?

How many rooms or channels? Channels, I don't know. Channels like a lot. Like many. By the way, for the audio listener, Lauren is just squinting at her computer and saying numbers. She's like, I don't know, that looks like 30.

How many stars are there in the sky? Eventually they like stop, they like go into like the ad, the like more section. So I don't even know. Hype check your Slack room channel number, whatever that is. Can you do it?

I like it. It's good. It's amazing. Slack was down for me for like half an hour today because I like messed up my two factor. and I was lost. I was like, oh my God, how do I do anything?

I hate it. I hate being spoken to. Every once in a while, I lean across the desk to Caitlin because she's just across from me and I'm like, hey, Caitlin, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, she pulls out her headphones. She's like, all right.

Because I'm busy listening to One Direction and making our Tumblr. That's all I do all day long. My phone. I mean, it is a pretty good tumbler. I remember when Slack went down for, what, like 30 minutes that one day? And like we all talked to each other for a really long time and it was really special.

I remember I was sitting on the couch and someone was like hey Lauren I was like What? It was great we do we all slack each other from like 50 feet away all day. Yeah Today this is an embarrassing anecdote about management today we had a meeting in which we discussed how people don't talk in meetings and one of the reasons that I came up with was because slack has stunted all of our development Like we actually don't know how to talk to each other unless Why is Slack any different than like IRC that we used to have? Because everybody that didn't grow up with IRC uses it now.

Oh. Yeah. It's like imagine if everybody used IRC that's Slack. It's funny. If you remember I'll see, you old. What's that, Tom? That's what Dee is trying to say. Yeah, we're old.

If you remember IRC, you're officially old. Oh, we're old. It's not like the good old days when we're old. Deere's like 50 years old. I am 50 years old. It's actually his birthday. Tom's also like 50 years old. He just looks incredibly.

on. Tom's a handsome man. He has an awesome scar. What? I know that. Yeah. All right. It's fine.

I talk on the phone a lot. Like if I'm, if I have like a issue. You are old. I definitely am old. Yeah. No, I saw Sam Shepard tweet the other day that he thinks phone calls are like to come back. They should. That's another column I want to write.

Oh. Can I tell a story about it? If all, if everybody else got a pager, would you? No. All right. phone calls are not going to come back. Phone calls are not going to come back. Maybe video calling will come back.

Oh my God. We're not going to go back to just audio. When did video calling, to come back, like, or to come, I guess to come into its fullest. I mean, a lot of my friends like Skype and stuff, and like a huge portion of the way that people who are in college right now keep in touch with their friends is like super long, like two-hour Skypes. Hmm.

See, whenever parents want to Skype, I'm always like, but do they look into the camera that whole time? I mean, sometimes it depends. Usually it's just like there. You look into your camera like at the beginning. Like and then sometimes people will like do laundry or do stuff, but you're like talking to the person. It's like you're hanging out with them.

Right. But if someone can make that actually like I know that there's like FaceTime, but like that doesn't work for everyone. If someone actually. You can get ready for these kinds of calls. You know, you don't want to look like a scrub when you're on a video call. I don't know. At some point you get over it because it's like not a big deal.

Like me and one of my cousins. I like to look like a scrub. I don't know if you guys can see how. powerfully Caitlin is rolling her mouth right now. I like to make she's about to

flip fully over. I like to make sure I've like bad hair and eye crust. I haven't been seven, four years, like almost every human being alive in my opinion,

sorry, Tom. I don't know what we're talking about here. Whatever, man. We're going to talk about the Nexus phone a minute,

but I thought we'd give, you know, the Hype Council had a moment. Okay. I haven't even seen the Nexus phones. I actually saw it at Google.

a couple weeks ago, but not like playing with the 6p2, but not the 5X. Right, Dan has a 5X. Dan, if you're watching, come on down. Might as well just join the Vergecast. Yeah, everyone else has. There's a guy just tweeting bad screenshots of me from a compressed video stream.

Anyway, so Deeter talk about the phone. It is the best Android phone you can buy right now. Do you think so? I do. Why is that? Because it has up-to-date clean software. What? What?

She's just looking. Getting at your Google now. Quit looking at my... Shit. Give me my phone back. I'm not going there anymore. I'm not going to go in there. It's brutal.

This doxing Dieter in the middle of Urgecast. Well done. Good Lord. I will say that I haven't... We need a plan for CES. I've never thought... You know what I'm going to do?

She's looking as count. I'm locking the phone. Can me give the phone back? Here, let's do this. I'll lock it so I can't get back in without your fingerprint. There you go. Okay. Just admire the hard pattern.

It's the best software you can get on an Android phone. Yeah. It is $500 to start for a 32 gig version, which is a good price. It is in that quote-unquote premium category. It has a really good camera. Yeah. Yeah, I was impressed with the camera stuff I could see. If someone came at me, the HDR is slow.

Yeah. The HDR is slow, but otherwise the camera, if you turn off HDR, the camera is plenty fast. If someone came at me and said, no, no. No, the note five is better. Are you eating snacks of a crinkly bag now? I would let them make that case to me. Let me see a picture of the hype counselor. But I think I prefer...

Don't look like you want to kill everyone. But the... See, I think that I only want the five... Is it the five X? Five X is notably slower. Slower? Yeah. See, and also it feels like shittier.

Yeah, but it's hard to know. So like, when we first looked at the five, everybody was like, oh, this is boring and dumb. And then everybody turned out over the year or so to, like, fall deeply on love with it. The Nexus 5. Yeah. Yeah, I love that fun. And then the Nexus 6, we're like, well, it's big, but everybody likes big phones. So maybe it's okay, I don't know. And then over the course of the year, we're like, man, this thing is just dumb, horrible. So it didn't age well. Deiter's been doing that impression on Nexus 6 for like a week. Yeah, yeah. He's like,

yeah, the X6, like, because big things are funny. Right. That's just my theory. And so, do you not know this big things are funny? I can't say for sure that like the Nexus 5x is going to look terrible in a year from now. Right. My hunch is that it's not going to age all that well. It's more like I want that size with that build. Right. And it sounds like that speed. Right. Can someone hold it up with the iPhone 6S plus?

It's virtually identical in size to the 6S plus, although the 6S plus is a tiny bit shorter. It feels smaller than my 6S plus. But is it easier to hang on to the 6P? The 6P seems like it's not like a slippery phone as much as the 6x. I don't feel like aluminum phones are as slippery as slippery as. everybody else in the planet seems to. Maybe I've just got like Spider-Man hands. I don't know.

I mean, it's ugly in very specific ways. There are some specifically ugly things. That camera strip is bothering me. This camera is bothering me. The antenna connects into the camera strip. I don't care with the camera strip. Like there's just like a whole section in this corner where it's just like someone was drunk.

You know, like someone was drawing the film. Like, I don't know, add some more lines. It's Huawei. Burn. No, doesn't Huawei make one particularly beautiful phone? Do you think Google really designed the exterior of the phone? It's really hard to know. But didn't Huawei make one?

one particularly beautiful phone. They're like actual phone. Yeah. They made us. I mean, I just think there's no like. Which is an iPhone clone. Oh,

you've got an iPhone clone. No? Oh, we got. Yeah. Never mind. I said nothing. But the,

I think there's really no other reason at this point to buy any Android phone other than an XS. Yeah. I mean, if you, like the only one that I would, right now with this thing, like if you wanted to get an SX because it's smaller.

Yeah. I love the time. you want to get a Note 5 because you want the stylus, go to town. I love the essence. Basically anything else? Like, nope. Right. Here's the only,

the reason I say that about the Nexus is because of the software updates. And also now all of the integration that they've got with the fingerprint sensor and all of the other Google goodness that happens because Google's really involved with the phone. Although now on Tap is terrible, right? I mean, it's not good. I know you made it, but I like it. It misread an address. A perfectly formatted address.

It was unable to read it. But it was able to look up a restaurant named Trey because I had the address sent to me by our executive producer Trey Shelfhorn. Like it got Trey and but the wrong tray, Trey the restaurant. I love it for adding calendars like calendar stuff. It just works so much faster than like even in iOS when it's like trying to guess that you want to calendar.

I think 3D touch is better because at least you know there's a link that'll do something. I think actually now on tap with 3D touch would be great. where I don't even know how that works. You would be able to hit what you're looking at and then you initiate now on tap. And they could do other things. Yeah. You know,

I don't like that though. Right? Because they were... No, of course. Because they're like, we can't read your data. Well, plus Apple doesn't want to present you with more than one option.

And by the way, I'm like, also, I'd want it to be Google. It's not going to happen. Yeah. But Google, I mean, I don't know, it's Android, right? Like, you got to think somewhere there's like a Samsung engineer

and he's like, oh, I got to make three touch now. Yeah. You know, like they're going to do it and they'll just like make a crap version of it and like four versions of Android for now

and it'll just be an Android. Yeah. Right. The Android life cycle. Yeah. But you don't like it even when it's like, I mean, I just,

maybe it's like more of novelty, but it's like if you're listening to something or something's on the screen. Am I going to buy this phone? I actually already did buy this phone. It's just, it's so rarely gives, like things that I know it ought to do, it has only a 50% hit rate.

And I just, that's not enough for me like, oh, I wonder what Nau and Tap will do right now. That'll be interesting. If you don't get the stuff you should get half the time, I'm going to stop using you, which is just like so. There's just like a lot of stuff in... When Dieter has a child. I'm just going to stop using you.

You're done, kid. You suck at math and we're not talking anymore. I mean... Have you guys played at this phone over there? Yeah. Hype check the 6P. The 6P is like definitely the best Android phone that I've played with. The build is really nice.

And for me, naked iPhone 6S plus, It's in a case. I can see the case from here. Because I can't hang on to it. I see. So for me, it's like, that phone is really cool. If now on tap actually worked like more than 50% of the time, I would really consider switching. Are we iPhones down the line here?

Yeah. Okay, so I'm asking you a really hard question. Yeah. What would make you buy a Surface book and what would make you switch for an Android phone? Okay. I'm definitely buying Android phone next because I think brand loyalty is a disease. Wow. I don't want to buy another iPhone just to buy another iPhone.

I don't know anything about phones. That's great. That's great answer. Different. Yeah. See, I'm probably like your worst nightmare because I just don't want to worry about it. So I just stick with the same phone each time and get a new update. Do you know that you have what I believe is known as a disease?

How often you get a new phone? What's up? How often do you get a new phone? Probably every two to three years. But it's like I just. don't want to make it a huge deal, so I just get the next iPhone, because it worked for me in the past. Yep. I have space to worry about you guys.

All of space is there. Okay, so here's the thing I'm going to read one more ad, and then I actually want Lauren to give us some space news. Okay. Because she's here. She's our space reporter. She should do that. And then, Caitlin, you can say something else deeply depressing about being young in America. That's my beat.

What's my beat. Well, you know what I think the teens love? It's fucking SoftLayer. Soffler's back, everybody. I don't know if you were thinking about a cloud. This cloud is built for transparency. I don't know what I'm going to say about this ad. Look, Joanna, I'm going to address this ad.

Do you know who owns Softlare? You know, when I... It's going to surprise you. When I think about Joanna Stern, I think about her unique computational. workload. And I think we have the fact that my friend Joanna deserves cloud resources that meet her specific needs. Soft layer. Duh. One of the only cloud providers of provisions dedicated servers and virtual servers, otherwise known as a public cloud from a single,

seamless platform. All this is on demand. All that's connected to the same Open API. All that's connected to a global private network, which I think we all know the teens appreciate. All of this allows you to scale your workloads up and down quickly for presumably your one-direction BitTorrent server. And you have ample space for your storage intensive tasks. Software, surprise, IBM company. IBM uses software as its crowd infrastructure foundation for all IBM Cloud products and services.

So if you're not looking for infrastructure, because you're a basic, you can benefit from software infrastructure when you use platforms or software services from IBM Cloud. Deeter's just drawing on a tablet wildly now. So here's what you need to do. Figure out your life, get your business started,

get on SoftLayer, and then go to SoftLayer, and then go to software.com slash podcast to get $500 off your cloud infrastructure. You can order bare metal servers. You can order virtual servers. You can get storage. You get networking. You get security services. Probably get a Taylor-Syser 24 data centers around the world. All these services and services are connected to the unique network of networks, which connects, separates public, private, and management traffic, ensuring the traffic to and from your cloud infrastructure travels more efficiently. You might think that I suck at these ad reads and I do, but you are damn well listening to see what kind of car crash we're going to. to get into here. And that car crash will be powered by Soflare. Automate and control your cloud

infrastructure with a granular API or with the easy-to-use software customer portal. So please, for God's sake, it has to be working because they keep buying the ads. Visit software.com slash podcast. Get your $500 off of servers, storage, network, and security on the cloud built for transparency. There's always some fine print here. It says user's discretion. I never read it because, I don't know. Anyway, whatever. Software.com slash podcast. for being on the verge cast. Oh, my God.

I think it's because I was being on the verge cast. And also, I just like to say a lot of people do really like browser and your browser. com. So thank you for visiting browser and your traffic spike? Yeah. Wait, do you have like analytics on your Squarespace side? If I log into Squarespace, you can actually. That's one of the benefits of using Squarespace.

Again, CMO Squarespace right now, just like ripping his shirt off. We did it! We did it! We did it. During your ad read, I made effective use of the digital clipboard. I tested three or four different. Oh, I know. My shit's blown up.

Website building tools on Squarespace was, in fact, one of the best. All right, so we've got the high pencil here. Tom, I want one more little piece of Tom before we go. It's a beautiful website, China, I know. I don't see the dog. But Lauren, give me some space news. Okay, so the fun thing is we're getting an asteroid to fly by Earth on Halloween. That's fun.

Did we ask it nicely? Lauren bribed an asteroid. Yeah. Like, I wanted to spice things up this holiday, so I got an asteroid to come visit. Is it a spooky asteroid? Only if you want to be super cliche. Sorry, no, I just saw so many headlines that I were like, trick or treat? Oh, my God. I get it. But, yeah, it's pretty big, and we just found out about it last week. So that's a little scary. But it's not going to hit us at all. It's just going to come really close, like 1.3 Loon. lunar distances, which is about... Wait, what? So, yeah, just a little...

That's really close, isn't it? That's like as close as the moon? What's a lunar distance? It's 300,000 miles. That's really close. It's pretty close. It's not going to hit us, though. But this happens all the time.

I mean, we get near Earth asteroids like hundreds each month. Right. The only thing that's special about this one is that it's kind of big for the normal asteroids we get, and it's getting pretty close. So, but we have nothing to worry about. But the fun thing... So what kind of Armageddon situation are we in? We're not in any Armageddon situation.

Do I have to try to marry Bruce Willis' daughter now or later? No, you like stay away from Bruce. Everything's fine. I'm coming for you, rumor on Halloween. But I did learn about what different sizes of asteroids, like how much they would destroy life on Earth this week. So this asteroid, if it were to hit us, it only wipe out like a continent. Oh, good. So like pick your least favorite continent and just hope for the best or the worst.

The ones we have to worry about are the one kilometer asteroids. They're like, I think, sorry for the conversion. I think it's over 3,000 feet. Those are the ones if they were to hit us, they like wipe out the humanity. So that's the one, those are what like NASA is more concerned with. This one is just smaller than that. It's just continent. Just going to destroy a continent.

So Europe, watch out. You know, the crap continent. Yeah. Caitlin, if our continent was to be destroyed on Halloween, how would you spend your last days? Okay, actually, I'm going to see Spring Awakening on Halloween. Why are you so prepared for this question? It's a musical on Broadway. It's great.

I've been stealthily in starting Broadway coverage into Theverge.com. It's not that stealthy. I like to pretend that it's very sneaky. Anyway, I'm going to see that musical. That's what I'm doing. All right. we've just got a couple of minutes left. Tom, is there anything else that we need to talk about?

We haven't talked about Star Wars. We haven't talked about Drake. I really do wish I had done this entire podcast alone with Tom. I wish I'd done this entire podcast alone with Tom. We can just leave and you. Tom, do you feel that way? Or you just not like me to be on the podcast with you? I think Star Wars and Drake

because there's a great vine of Drake dancing with lightsabers. I like the vine of him with playing Wii U a little bit better. Yeah, that one's pretty good. Not YouTube. Oh, we haven't talked. Watch about YouTube. Which one. We need to go about YouTube.

All right. We should talk about YouTube really fast. All right. No, we started late. We can go a couple of months. All right, Dieter. Let's take us through YouTube. So there's a new thing.

YouTube read. I can't even ask about YouTube. It's such a big deal. So it's 10 bucks a month. And you get rid of ads. And you get access to some exclusive content from YouTube, quote unquote, creators. But not that much.

PewDie Pie is making like a horror. show or something? With the creator of the walking dead. With the creator of the walking dead. But that's not actually the important thing. The important thing is 10 bucks a month. You get rid of ads and the people that make YouTube get a cut, but it looks like it's a small cut, but we don't know how much of a cut and YouTube's not saying.

Is that the important thing? Yeah. Well, the money is, I think from my perspective, it's like, or the consumer perspective, it's like you can background play the songs. You can play videos. You can download them offline. Offline is huge. background play on an iPhone?

Yeah. Yeah. So like if you're playing the video on your phone and you get a text message, you want to respond to the text message, but keep listening to the video, you can go to your texts and keep listening to the video and then pop right back. You've been able to do that on Android though, right? Sort of. The other.

But offline is the other key one. Yeah. Right. I think this is YouTube, like, beginning to understand that they actually run a social network and music streaming service and not just like a video player. Right. Well, and that they, if they wanted to, they could like, compete with Hulu and Netflix. Yeah.

Like head to head. I mean, an offline video is something that Netflix has not done yet and is a huge deal. Like, the only other streaming video person that does download is Amazon Prime right now. Yeah. And, like, that's a huge deal in the city. Like, if you're going to be on the subway, you most of the time don't have coverage. And, like, as far as data, the idea that you can download YouTube videos and then go wherever you want and still play them is a huge deal.

I mean, for me at least. Yeah. Wait, do you watch, you would watch YouTube on the subway? I would watch so much YouTube on the subway. I have so much YouTube that since I started this job, I can't keep up with, like people who do weekly videos. Yeah. I have like hours to catch up on, and I would watch it all on the subway.

Huh. I guess that's not how I think about you, guys. Now they're just competing so you can more dramatically pull their surface books apart. Dieter's way better at it. No, but what you do is you put it on there and lift it up by the thing once it's attached. So the laptop drops? No, so the bottom doesn't drop. What do you mean?

When you're reattatching. One of you is going to. breaks something. That's all I know. Let's see it coming from. So here it's detached and then you attach it and then you magically pick up the base with it. It's like playing with silly pudding. I can't. So YouTube Red.

We tried. We tried so hard to stay on topic. Well, also and if you do YouTube Red, don't you also get Google Play Music as well? I just want to point out that what's happening on the show right now is like two very senior, very experienced, brilliant technology reviewers are just. picking up laptops and looking proud of themselves. They're not even doing anything else. They're just like, now Dieter's just making it talk to me.

I'm crossing your hair. Clearly. Mine's a little, it's a little dirty to the string team. So I don't know, I don't know if it includes play off the top of my head. It's back into YouTube. How sad is Google Play Music right now? Yeah, I don't know. So sad.

It's not for me. But if it came free with the 99. But it does. YouTube stuff. Yeah. Because YouTube music key is turning into this thing. So like the key thing about, so, oh, I can't believe we've been to talk about YouTube this whole time. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

It includes Google Play Music. Yeah. For really real. So like, 10 bucks a month is all music and all video on YouTube? Yes, that's why it's compelling to me. Yeah. Right. It's compelling, but I actually wonder what.

Deter's gone. Yeah, no, but why don't they just combine Google Play music with YouTube? The big, the big problem I have with YouTube streaming is, is I don't want to stream a video, right? That's a lot of data that I don't want to be using. No, but that's why backgrounding and offline, because it will stop streaming the video to your phone when you get away from the thing.

But it will still download the, like, at some point you're using your data for video. When you watch a video. Yeah, but you could do that on Wi-Fi. No, but if it includes Google Play, like, are we sure about this? Yeah, because it's replacing music key. This is exactly what Ben said.

Yeah. Ben, Ben did the room. So the story that Ben got from YouTube was they did music key, and you could take all the ads off of music, and then all their users, were confused because they're like, why doesn't this take all the ads off of all of YouTube? And there's lots of music on YouTube that wasn't

part of music key, but it's otherwise licensed. But it's not like part of the official accounts and whatever. So they had to figure out how to go all the way and remove all the ads from all of YouTube. But what's really interesting, and I think this is like the fascinating part, is there like this won't affect our advertising business as all, because YouTube is so big that you could literally add every late night

television viewers, it took 100 million people, and it still wouldn't be more than one or two percent of the total YouTube audience. Right. Which is crazy. I think there's two things about this YouTube red stuff, and the first one is it's Google tapping into a certain generation.

People who do watch Pudypie and... Right, right, right. You know, like the kids that are growing up, they're not watching live TV. They don't care about that stuff. They don't care about cable, they care about Netflix, they care about YouTube celebrities. So I think it's them tapping into that. But it's also, if you've played with YouTube over the past, like, year,

yeah, yeah. There's so many ads now. Right. No, it's absurd. There's going to be even more ads as a result of this. So it's YouTube monetizing in a big, big way. And definitely a generational thing. Well, and that's why their originals all look like garbage, right?

Like the PewDie Pied show looks terrible. There's another one, Lily Singh. Like, there's all these YouTube stars. And what they did was they said, well, because here's what's happening. YouTube stars are making it big on YouTube. and then the TV companies are showing up and saying, leave YouTube, make TV shows with us because we're desperate for young people to watch our stuff.

They're making a great suite of Broadway musicals on YouTube now. I'm just looking, I don't know, I just can troll you forever. You look so sad. It's like, I made a lot of joke. It's called Dr. Horrible. Wait, what? The internet musical, Dr. Horrible sing-along blog. Yeah, I'm super aware of Dr. Horrible.

You're going to go see it live? No, I'm saying that, like, internet musicals is like not a thing. is a thing. How many negatives did you just use that sentence? It's not a thing. It's totally a legit thing to say. We don't need to workshop my sentence.

It's not a legit thing to say. I mean, okay. We don't need to talk about musicals anymore. That's another merch cast that Caitlin and I will do ourselves. I think there's probably many more theater nerds on this. There are a lot of theater nerds

in this room right now. Yeah. Really? Is it three? Are they at your death? It's, well, You've got one kid that really like spectacle over there. I do.

I mean, I was a, I was a, yeah, you got a secret theater nerd over there that you don't realize you have. Yep, yeah.

All right. Moving on. Final thought on YouTube. We got a wrap. Final thought on YouTube. Tom had a good one. Go ahead, Tom. Finish your thought.

And I was just saying it's a generational thing with the whole YouTube red stuff. It's just like my daughter does not care about celebrities that I care about. She cares about YouTube celebrities. Yeah.

And that's just, that's going to be the future. Yeah. And what I'm saying is like, I think this is, that's exactly right. But I think what is happening is YouTube didn't have another place. Like the only, if you're a YouTube star, there's no other revenue model for you other than like add impression money. And now YouTube is saying, here's another revenue model to add on top of it. Are you really, you're just crankling away? Yeah.

Okay. Anyway. But don't the stars have to agree to it? Aren't they forced into it? No, YouTube had to run around. Remember there was a big scandal. like that's well but the new deal is like you're in or you're out with the new stuff yeah you're either running ads and making money or you're not you can't do what the like current like previous

situation was where you could choose to monetize and like kind of right make more granular choices you don't have that option right well actually what I think is really interesting and I watch a bunch of um they're watching just a bunch of YouTubers lately how many of them have just subtly integrated product placement and branded content into their streams which is not in like outside that you're not allowed to do that like YouTube's rules say like if you're going to do it you have to tell us when you like it's not allowed but everyone's doing it because it's impossible to monitor so I actually find it really hard to know on YouTube what is bought and what is not because so many people are like I love I don't

know whatever like I love this product and it's like is that real like there's there's no tracking underneath it and that has become the shadow second it's kind of like on Snapchat when you see someone mention a product on Snapchat, it's extremely hard to tell if they got sent it or if they actually like it. Yeah. I follow a lot of fashion people. But with a lot of these, like, from what I understand from, like, social media influencer outreach and stuff like that, it's not always paid.

Yeah. They just get the products for free, right? Sometimes you can't tell it's like, did they get the product for free? Did they buy it? Are they getting it for free and getting paid? I think a lot of people get just product free. Yeah. But you never know.

There's just this weird. Right. Like, we live, we all live in a world of like. or journalists. Very clear boundaries. Right. Squarespace. And what I think is true.

I am not paid by Squarespace. I just am a journalist happen to like their product. And I actually pay for my Squarespace site. The CMO, like literally just like spiked a football. I pay for my Squarespace site. Look at this. This guy trolling me.

We're getting trolled in the background. It's great. Yeah. Anyway. Did you do you want to do? I got to do. A lot of people wearing the Fitbit. What do you want me to do?

If you're watching, you know what's happening? I know what's happening. I know what's happening. If you're watching this, architects are walking through our, they're expanding the company. So they're looking so like literally like we just got looked at like fishing an aquarium to be like

and this is where podcasting happened some architect was like drawing on a sheet of paper. You know what that architect needs is a surface book. Yes, architects are perfect for surface books. Get out there. Wouldn't service be perfect for iPad pros? I think those

are really where this market is like, like that's the definite of you will use almost all the features that this product has. Yeah. If you're an architect. Yeah. You're going to use a pen. If you're an architect, please tweet at Joanna right now. I drop there as an architect.

Actually, if you are an architect, I am looking for an architect. So I would be very interested in talking to you. I'm just working on some things. I'd like, I'd like a farm up state. As I was talking about reasons that we want to meet an architect. Joanna, you just maybe quote the Decemberists. Thanks a lot. I would like to thank BrainTree for sponsoring today's episode of the Burgecast.

BrainTree gives you a full stack payment solution. Support for all payment types your customers might want. You can start accepting Android pay, Apple, PayPal, Bitcoin, Venmo, cards, whatever's next. Just the single integration. It's like, I don't know, you just type some words in your computer and you just get paid. It's there's superior fraud protection. There's customer service. There's fast payouts.

Please, my God, just visit Braintreepayments.com slash the vergecast. That'd be cool. I think everybody on the hype council should give us one social follow. Yeah. What's a? Oh, yeah. You should follow the real verge on Snapchat. because I run that account and it's pretty awesome.

Wait, hold on, Caitlin, I got a request. Hype check Hamilton. What? 14. 14. Come close to the mic for your head check. Okay, okay. Hamilton will make you feel better about America, about democracy,

about like, about the accessibility of like great art. It will make you feel better about everything, okay? So just like go, like, hang out, wait for the lottery tickets. Do what you want to do, okay? It's amazing. This is the only thing that you feel sincerely good about, isn't it? Everything else is dark and grim except for this in one direction. There's nobody who's ever been exposed to either Hamilton or One Direction who was like,

I feel upset afterwards. They were like, this is a joy beam straight into my heart. It's how you feel. All right. What social channel should they follow? You should go to the verge. com. Nice.

Yeah. Tumblr is cool. You should be. You should follow Verge teens. What? Oh, Teen Verge. It's at Teen Verge on Twitter. At Teen Verge. It's pretty funny.

Somebody who runs it, it's really great. Yeah, I don't know who runs it. It's my conduit into, like, teen culture these days. But who runs it? Somebody in Orlando. Oh, my God. We're screwed. Okay.

Nobody knows. You can also find all of our podcast, and we've got a bunch of them on iTunes. slash The Verge. That includes us, Verge ESP, about entertainment, science, culture, what's tech,

and of course, Control Walt Delete. You should go there. This week's Control Outletlet which went up just before it's really good because Walt doesn't like Steve Jobs movie.

I didn't either, and I want to talk to him about it because I think it was terrible. But Walt, like, Walt pulled the Trump card, which is like, I really knew Steve Jobs, like, very well.

Oh, he Lloyd Benson did it. And he, like, told me a bunch of really cool. Did a job stories on that show this week. Wow. His column is great. Yeah. I read that yesterday.

I won't reveal any names, but a lot of very important people have responded to that column and said this is real. And also, MC Hammer tweeted it today. So that was like a fun moment in the verge. Like, what's more Verge than Walt writing about Steve Jobs getting promoted by MC Hammer? That's our website, everybody. MC Hammer. Did he have a relationship with Steve Jobs? Who knows?

Interesting. I would. That's why actually the famous line, please hammer don't hurt him. That was Steve Jobs. Man. That's our show. It's a really dangerous topic. Please, please don't blame us for anything that happened here.

Please don't hold us responsible for this content. Rock and roll. Bye. Rock and roll. Bye, sorry. Rock and roll.