The Vergecast - The next big thing in movies is 60-year-old IMAX tech

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey is the first feature film ever shot entirely with IMAX 70mm film cameras, which is apparently a very big deal, and why it's been harder than usual to get a ticket to see Matt Damon. And now that Spider-Man is moving onto IMAX screens, it may be even harder to get a ticket. Why is this 60-year-old technology suddenly the hottest thing in movies? The Verge's film and TV reporter Charles Pulliam-Moore joins senior reviewer Jennifer Pattison Tuohy to compare the standard and IMAX versions of The Odyssey and talk us through the difference between IMAX, LieMAX, and Infinity Vision. Further reading: Christopher Nolan’s Odyssey will be the first movie shot entirely on IMAX film Don’t screw this up, Marvel The Odyssey turned me into an IMAX believer Google just announced a major shakeup of its top AI leadership Nintendo beats earnings thanks to US tariff refunds it won’t share with gamers Bose’s upgraded QuietComfort headphones add head-tracking immersive audio Subscribe to The Verge for unlimited access to theverge.com, subscriber-exclusive newsletters, and our ad-free podcast feed. We love hearing from you! Email your questions and thoughts to [e-mail] or call us at 866-VERGE11. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of seven-story high movie screens. I'm Jennifer Patterson-Tui, the Verges Senior Reviewer, and today we're talking IMAX. Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey has already been selling out IMAX theaters, and now, Spider-Man, brand-new day, which has just had the biggest box office debut ever, is expanding to IMAX 2. So it is a big week if you want to see 80-foot-tall close-ups of Tom Holland and Zendaya. But what is it about the 60-year-old technology that is suddenly the hottest thing in movies, other than Matt Damon's biceps? The Verges TV and film reporter Charles Pullimaud is going to be joining me to give us the view from the top. But first, here's what's happening on the verge today.

This is 90 seconds on the verge for Thursday, August 6, 2026. Major moves are afoot among Google's AI leadership. Jeff Dean, Google DeepMind's chief scientist, is leaving to start Discovery Loop, where he'll be able to. build deeply positive AI systems. Demise Hasabas is out as leader and will become chair and Alphabet's chief scientist. DeepMind's CTO, Kooai Kavachukulu, replaces him. The Verges-Haden Field says this laundry list of executive changes likely signal deeper issues within Google's AI organization, including Dean's opposition to Google's DOD contract

and an overall push towards faster, more product-focused leadership. Nintendo just made a bunch of money thanks in part to a $300 million tariff refund. The company reported a 150% profit increase in its first quarter, thanks to strong game sales and a whopping big check from the US government. Despite raising prices on Switch consoles and blaming tariffs, Nintendo is keeping the refund. And it's not alone. Sony is also keeping its refunds from PlayStation price increases,

and both companies are now facing lawsuits from users. Bose has announced its long-awaited second-gen quiet comfort headphones. The ANC models will be available for pre-order on August 8th for $359 and come in some fun new colors, including a gorgeous deep red rose and a vaguely urine-colored one. The second-gen will feature an upgraded aware mode and new immersive audio listening modes, including head tracking and a simulated theater-like experience. That's going to be fun while you're riding on the subway. You can read more about all of these stories at theverge.com.

That's 90 seconds on the verge for Thursday, August 6, 2026. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations.

more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Powders, pills, plunges. Everywhere you look, there seems to be a new wellness trend. We all want to feel good. And if there's a way to feel better, I think wouldn't you want to try it? I would. What's the cost of being well?

And why are we so obsessed with it in the first place? That's this week on Explain It to Me. Find episodes every Sunday, wherever you get your time. podcasts. Welcome, Charles. Thanks for joining me. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to talk about the Odyssey, IMAX, but also Matt Damon.

Yes. Yay! Excellent. Okay, so let's just start right at like 101 film school here. Okay, tell me what specifically is IMAX other than a big screen. So huge screens are obviously like a huge part of the. iMacs brand, but iMacs, right, IMAX TM encompasses a handful of different proprietary filmmaking and projection technology. So we're talking about the cameras that the films are shot with.

We're talking about the specific kind of film that is loaded into those cameras. And then, you know, to the screen of it, we are talking specifically about a very particular kind of hard-to-build projector. Many of them are very old right now. And then we're also talking about massive, massive screens, We talk about, yes, the IMAX screen is big, and we all sort of know, we all sort of have a vague idea of what an IMAX screen looks like, but like true IMAX, they are these humongous screens that are able to show films in 1.43 to 1, which is just like immersive and really sort of, if you are not specifically trying to look around the theater and you are focused on the screen, it is kind of like you're being pulled into the image, which is kind of the image max, IMAX of it all. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay, that makes sense. Great. Image Max.

They were one of the first maxing companies out there. Oh, yeah, and that became a trend. Yeah, they were ahead of the curve. So I have to admit up front that I am an IMAX virgin. I have never seen an IMAX movie. But quickly, why would I want to see any movie in IMAX? Like, what is the experience going to be like? You mentioned immersive, but is there anything else that kind of really stands out about IMAX?

So you're going to get a really high quality picture. And depending on the specific film that you're seeing something at, seeing something that's shot on 70 millimeters truly can, it's hard, it's almost hard to put into words. I know that we're talking about the Odyssey right now specifically, but I think the last time that there was a really big sort of public push to go see something that was shot in IMAX, at least partially, was sinners, right? And the big appeal with that film was that the scenes that were. shot, it was like 15 perforations per minute, 70 millimeters, was that it lent itself to these wide expansive shots, right, of just like the country in the South, right? It really makes you sort of like feel what it means to have to drive through an old dirt road as you're just like trying to get somewhere. And I think that when filmmakers make the choice to shoot something at IMAX, particularly if they're, ideally there's like sort of an artistic motivation behind it, You were trying to depict something at a larger scale that's going to evoke a particular kind of feeling in the audience, right? And I think that really comes to the fore in The Odyssey.

It is an epic poem. And Nolan goes out of his way to sort of present what he's crafted, much of which is done with practical effects in such a way that makes it look and feel larger than life. That's what gets me excited about IMAX. And it's not, you know, just because something's out in IMAX, it's not always immediately something that's going to like catch my eyes. but when you can tell that a filmmaker has intentionally worked in that format in order for, in order to, like, strengthen the narrative, that's kind of what I think the format's real, like, draws. Well, and, I mean, this is a 60-year-old technology.

You mentioned, like, these old cameras. Why is it suddenly going through such a resurgence? Is it just because Christopher Nolan is doing it? Or, I mean, I know we had, was it Avatar a few years back? That was a big IMAX. but there hasn't been this amount of buzz. I mean, we've got Spider-Man coming out now. And, I mean, I was doing some research,

and I heard that theaters for, with true IMAX theaters, we're selling out like a year in advance. I mean, this isn't the era's tour, people. I mean, why does everyone want to go and see IMAX all of a sudden? I mean, I do think a lot of the popularity of the format can be attributed to not just Nolan as an individual filmmaker, but sort of what he has done to,

draw attention to the format, right? Like, the Dark Night was not entirely shot in IMAX, but there were sequences that were shot that way in those sequences. You do get the sense that like, Nolan's like, I'm going to, I'm making a grounded superhero film, right? This is sort of the beginning of that wave of like, ooh, it's moody and grim, dark, and serious. But Nolan was very intentionally trying to make something that could still be a spectacle. That's become sort of common and standard in superhero films, you know, in the time sense. But he was intentionally trying to be like, how can I make something that hits you in the face and in the feelings the same way that like a splashy comic book, comic book layout can? Right. And he has consistently sort of

incorporated IMAX cameras and filmmaking into the bulk of his filmography over the years. You see it in The Dark Night Rises and interstellar, Oppenheimer, right? Over those years, right, as Nolan is becoming more and more of a celebrity director, I think as his, star, you know, was on the rise. The same sort of happened for IMAX, right? He has played a really important role in teaching the public a lot about IMAX. And I think that theater owners are thankful for it, right? As few true IMAX theaters as there are out there, the fact that you have filmmakers like Christopher Nolan, Denny Villeneuve, Ryan Coogler out here doing things in IMAX, right? It gets people excited to go to the movie theater.

And even if they aren't necessarily going to see something that's projected in 70 millimeters, they're like, ooh, it's IMAX. That's fun. That's great. And as much as we all talk about like, oh, the movies are dead. The movies are back. Part of that constant ebb and the flow is, well, how many films are coming out that have sort of done a job or sort of done a solid job of capitalizing on the public's interest

in that kind of format, right? Like, Cinners, I keep bringing it back to Cinnards, because that was a really big part of the marketing push. They went so far as to give out little strips of film as like the little giveaway at certain theaters. And that's... Film strip. That's cool. But the idea, but the idea of like in the 21st century, people are going to movie theaters and sort of marveling at a film and then taking a little strip of it home, not the literal thing, but a facsimile of it. That really does remind you like, hey, so everything that you just saw, it's a bunch of images on some film and it's, you know, being projected real fast and that becomes a moving image, right? Like, that's,

that's cool, right? Like I think that that's something that filmmakers, like Nolan, have been trying to advocate for the general public, like a deeper understanding of an appreciation for film as an art form and what all goes into it, which is, I think, really kind of all culminating in The Odyssey in a really sort of like big, bombastic way that everyone can kind of recognize as being like a success, you know? So this is very much more about the art form then.

And Nolan is notoriously a ludic, right? He doesn't use technology at all. He doesn't have a smartphone or anything. I think no email. I think people print out his emails and give him to him my story. So was this kind of part, is this almost like a musician letting, releasing all their albums only on vinyl? Is it like going back to the kind of core of filmmaking, plus taking advantage of this huge screen element.

So like, you know, because it sounds like shooting in this format, especially the 70 millimeter IMAX as opposed to, I guess there's two types of IMAX. You can see the 70mmeter or there's like digital. Is that right? It's, we can get into that. Okay. So, but it sounds like it's a real pain to do the 70mm.

And this is why this is the first movie ever to have done it entirely. So, you know, why would he choose to do something that's this hard? So I think part of it is. the challenge, right? I think that Christopher Nolan, you know, he's not a spring chicken anymore. He has sort of more than demonstrated his bona fides. And at this point in his career, he's like, what does me working at the height of my powers look like exactly, right? I'm sort of proven that I am a capable visual storyteller. We can debate as to whether or not he's particularly great at writing certain types of characters, women in particular, right? But he's like, inasmuch as I am a filmmaker

who puts butts in theaters to see gorgeous tabloes just sort of like exploding all around you. How can I do that in a way that really sort of like challenges me to like step my game up? And I think that shooting in 70mm is kind of like, I don't want to say his dream situation, but it's kind of it's stacked with all of these kinds of challenges that are surmountable, right? They can be worked around, but it's going to take, it took a lot of technical know-how and just sort of faith and money, right? Like that. Right. But like once you see the Odyssey and take a beat to sort of look into what all it took to put it together, it's like, oh, like that is, it is impressive, right? Like there is a reason that people do not shoot on IMAX like this beyond just like the expensiveness of it. The cameras are heavy, right?

They're really big. They're really big, and you really can't, you're not going to get a lot of dynamic action shots because you can't run with that thing, right? It's not going to work. They're loud, right? They make a whole hell of a lot of noise. And one of the cool things about Nolan's production process on this,

he had to wrap or outfit the cameras in blimps, right, in order to muffle the sound, right? So that he could actually do dialogue, right? A lot of Nolan's previous films that feature, that were shot with IMAX, right? Those are like the big loud scenes, right? It's not necessarily like a quiet, intimate moment. But for this, because the entire thing is shot on IMAX.

And a lot of this is, you know, quiet asides, you know, in the throne room while there's someone hiding in the shadows. You had to do all this to the camera. But because it was covered in all this muffling, this muffling exterior, you have to put special mirrors on it so that everyone can get like their eyeslines, right? And it's kind of like, it didn't have to be this complicated. It did not have to be this complicated, but you listen to or watch interviews with any of the members of the cast. And you can see that they were unaccustomed to working like this, right?

But how to put men fascinated by it and really excited about like, oh, my goodness, like, why are we doing it like this? I love it, but like, tell me more about how that works. I think that that's a big part of why people are really, like, glomming on to this. What would be the difference between seeing this in a 70mm? IMAX of which are apparently only 40 in the entire world or 41 or something, versus seeing it in a digital, is it digital IMAX? The biggest immediate difference between real IMAX and LIMax, as people like to call it, it is the, I don't think that's fair, but...

That's not the official name then. No, no, no, no. But I think the biggest difference is literally just the aspect ratio of the screen. It is that tall, tall, one point four three to one versus, I don't know the, it's not a 16 by 9 for like for the widespread IMAX, but it's something closer to that. Wider and bigger than what you would get in a regular screen, like in a regular theater, but it is missing some of the visual information that you would get in a true IMAX. In my mind, there's like three tiers. There's like true IMAX and then like the IMAX we all kind of have access to. And then there's just like a regular screening.

All three are great, right? You're going to, I think you would have an enjoyable experience at all of them. Support for the show comes from Even Realities. For a long time, the reality of Smart Glasses was that they were these bulky, in elegant pieces of tech that were much cooler in concept than really in practice. Well, Even Realties has fixed that. Even G2 are productivity smart classes designed to keep real-time support right in view. With teleprompting, conversation support, real-time translation, AI assistance, and more, they help you stay on top of work in daily life.

And unlike most smart glasses, they're designed to look and feel like premium eyewear. With no camera and a lightweight 36-gram design you can wear all day. The more context you give them, the smarter they get. Adapting to how you work and what you need. To learn more about EvenG2, go to Even Realities.com and see how everyday smart glasses keep helpful information in sight so you can stay productive and hands-free throughout the day.

And for our listeners, use promo code verge at evenrealities.com to get 10% off even ring one and or even clip when you add them to your even G2 order. That's even realities.com promo code Verge. Support for the Vergecast comes from Granola.

The one thing everyone in the office truly dreads is a late scheduled meeting. You can almost hear the collect virtual groan the moment it pops up on the calendar. While there isn't much you can do about those kinds of meetings, Granola can help ease the tension and make those meetings go smoothly. Granola is an AI-powered notepad built for the way real people actually meet. Here's how it works. You can take rough notes like you normally would, and in the background, Granola securely transcribes the meeting. Then it turns everything into a clean, structured, actually useful

notes when the meeting ends. And the best part, Grinola works through your devices audio, which means, it integrates seamlessly into the video conferencing tools you already use. No setup, no awkward bots. So if meetings are eating up your day, granola is a no-brainer. You could try it totally free for three months. Just head to granola.a.ai slash verge. That's granola.a.ai slash verge to get your time back. Get three months free at granola.a.a.a.comer.

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. Latin.

Democratic Socialists keep winning primary races. In Michigan, Abdul-Sahed, not in the DSA, but endorsed by them just won a fiercely fought Senate primary. President Trump appears worried enough about the DSA to have started conflating some things. I would be the greatest communist in history. I'd be right at free rent for the rest of your life. What they don't say is that you'll be living in squalor in 12 months.

The Trump administration has raised the specter of the far left in various ways during Trump's second. term. But the recent arrest of an American communist in Spain, what year is it, at the request of the American government, is a more concrete step. Coming up on today, Explain from Vox, real communist threat or new red scare. Today, explain, drops every weekday. So, you mentioned, we mentioned earlier that there's only like 40 theaters worldwide that can show the 17mm iMacs movies. Why only 40? Like, can they not build more projectors? I mean, it sounds like the ones that they're using now are like half a century old.

So why is this limitation? Is this like, is this a marketing ploy? Or can we see more of these movie theaters in the future? Jen, like, you've kind of answered it. They just don't have any more. But it's the modern day, can't they build more? So the thing is, like, it's actually sort of tragic and fascinating at the same time, right? The vast majority of these projectors were built 50 years ago,

And the ones that they are, the ones that are still being used right now, they have just been maintained and retrofitted to the best of IMAX's ability. One of the main reasons that they haven't been able to produce new ones. Could you think to yourself, it's 2026, just like crack open one of the ones you have and build one. But part of the issue is, one, they're very delicate, you crack it open, it's going to be hard to fix. Two, a lot of the original blueprints for how to manufacture these are gone. IMAX did not do, in the same way a lot of companies just do not keep great. records, IMAX does not have a lot of the original plans as to how to put these things together. That compounded with the fact that there has been an industry-wide shift away from film more

towards digital projectors. So people haven't got the institutional knowledge. People don't have the understanding of how to build these things. And the parts manufacturers, right, that once would have been able to build the parts, either they have gone out of business or they have pivoted into other industries, just in order to stay alive. So all of this has added up to IMAX being like, oh my God, I'm sorry, you guys. We simply can't build anymore. Is that true question mark?

Maybe. I feel like if IMAX were really to sort of like get down a brass tax and be like, look, the people want more of these projectors. We need them. They could figure it out, I think, probably, right? But again, that would take a lot of R&D on their part, right? You have to weigh how much money actually goes into this versus how many are going to get out of them.

then whether or not that investment is actually going to pay off for iMacs. You know, their CEO has talked about, yeah, it doesn't really make sense for us financially to install these into, we can't really build, you know, 2,000 more of these just from a technical perspective, but also getting them into theaters is hard, right? In order for, so there's the projector side of things, right? We were talking earlier about you needing a massive screen. A lot of theaters don't have the space for those kinds of screens. They would then have to undergo a construction process to build an auditorium that could actually

house it, that's money that the movie theater would need to put up. And movie theaters are already, right, the margins on those profits are already so thin. That's them taking a cut out of their film, like out of their money, rather. So it's like, all of that makes it easy to understand why the company's like, yeah, we don't really have anymore. Maybe you just want to get on a plan to go find one of the ones we have, right? That makes that an expensive movie night out. Yeah. And I think that like as time goes on, right, I don't know that, I, I don't know that every film isn't going to be shot in IMAX, right? Well, that's also the problem, right?

There aren't many of these. Can they make more of the cameras as well or no? So I think, yes, I think they can build more of the cameras. Nolan actually was working with a specific kind of IMAX camera. I think it's called the Keeley camera. It's named for one of IMAX's co-founders. But the thing is, the vast majority of filmmakers still aren't going to be working in IMAX, right? Especially not 70mm IMAX.

Again, like Christopher Nolan has quite a bit of sway and quite a bit of pull in the industry and the ability to, you know, drum up the finances to be able to pull this kind of stuff off, that's not always going to be the case. And just because a theater, or rather just because a film is big, doesn't necessarily mean that that's going to get people to flock to the theaters, which is another reason that I think that IMAX has been like, ah, we'll think about it, we'll think about it. I imagine in the next 20 years, maybe they'll roll out like two more, maybe.

And it'll be like a big deal. Two decades, and we might get two more. But we'll see. You actually wrote about, so you've seen it both ways, right? You've seen standard format and IMAX. Yes. Are you going to miss out by seeing just seeing The Odyssey on a standard screen? Like, how was your experience between the two?

Spoilers, by the way. Spoilers. I'm so sorry for spoiling details from this epic poem that is thousands of years old. But just, just spoiler alert. But yes. Right, Odysseus and his men, they get past the whirlpool and they're like, we're good. Oh, my goodness. then a monster arm just reaches down. Now, I went into the theater expecting it, but I was really hoping

to get a better look at what Nolan's Silla looks like, right? Because as much magic is present in the film, it's few and far between. Those moments are impressive and interesting, but it's always like, okay, we've seen the cyclops and we've seen the Giants and we've seen Circe do her thing, but like, what do the other beasts look like? And when I saw the film the first time, a regular 35-millimeter screening, you see a couple of Scylla. tendrils, tentacles, arms? Yeah, just little bits. Yeah, you see a couple of them.

And I was like, huh, that was cool. But I left the theater as much as I loved the film the first time, I thought. I was like, there was something that just something that just didn't, it's not that it didn't sit right with me, but I felt like something was missing. That's so odd. And I thought, was it a creative choice to sort of be like Odysseus and his men,

or rather Odysseus his men, because Odysseus knows what's going to happen at that point. But we're supposed to sort of be with them in the sense that they're unaware, of what's going on around them and they're just kind of listless. To all the film a second time, and it's like, oh, no, there she is, right? So in the IMAX, you could actually see her. Right, and this was not, this was not the 70mm. This was just regular IMAX. And there was, there was more, right?

You see more of the creature's form. You see that she scuttles back into a hole like a hermit crab. And it's like, oh, like that's like that little, that little bit of detail. I don't want to say it would have fundamentally changed my viewing experience, but it made me like, I was like, oh, so it's not that you weren't going for subtlety. It's just not there, right? And that is like one of the drawbacks to shooting in 70 millimeter, right? The vast majority of people are not going to be able to see your film.

There's been some debate online as to whether or not Nolan thinks of 70 millimeters as the way that the film is meant to be seen. But there is a version of the film that has more going on in it visually, more visual information that you're just not getting access to if you see it at one of these other formats, which does it bait as to whether or not that's like, oh, like, there's a premium on seeing the film in its full form, right?

Like, there's already, to bring it back to the movie theater economics of it all, like, that's also part of, that's a factor into how people engage with this kind of stuff. IMAX tickets are much more expensive, right? And I'm kind of like, well, do I want to pay more for the ticket?

Like, why aren't all the, why aren't the tickets the same exactly, at the same time of the day. Yeah. So if you have the choice, though, you should see it in IMAX. I think so. Yeah. I'm of the opinion that, like, if you have the ability to get to the theater and get a reservation,

why not, right? Can you? Is that even possible now? It depends on where you live, right? Who you know if you're willing to buy some aftermarket tickets. Like, if you're willing... This is crazy. Which is kind of wild.

And that, I think that has a- It's exciting. It's exciting, right? Like, all the film bros and cinephiles are just like, this is our moment. Oh, my goodness, we did it. Everyone's talking about film formats, right? And I think that's cool, right? I think that something else that this kind of film and films like it are doing are getting people

to appreciate that, yeah, like, seeing a film in one of these larger formats can be a very different kind of, very fun, enjoyable experience that, like, maybe that's something that you want to do more, right? We talk so much about what can theaters do to get more people to see films. I don't necessarily know that screen big, people come, is going to be the, I don't think that that's necessarily an equation that the industry can rely on. But I do think that, just to focus more on the theater goers, I think that the movie theater, rather, the movie theater experience can be something that is fundamentally different than watching something in your home. What we're seeing now is some studios moving towards this specifically Disney.

Now they're hyping up something called Infinity Vision. And from the look on your face, I can tell this is perhaps not IMAX-17 millimeter. Can you tell me a bit about what this is? And is this is something, this is for the New Avengers, I guess, and this is something that's going to bring us all back to the movie theaters? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So whereas IMAX refers to a very specific set of proprietary technical. The film make, the cameras and the projectors.

Infinity Vision, very clever, is a set of standards, right? A set of Marvel-approved or Disney-approved standards that theaters have to adhere to in order to be able to say that a screening is being shown in Infinity Vision. But these are all things that, like, a theater can tweak, right? It doesn't actually have anything to do with the way that the movie itself was shot or the way that the movie is being projected. That's more just sort of a, if you do ABC, X, Y, Z, then we can slap something on this.

I don't know or think that the Infinity Vision screenings are coming at like a premium price, but it is that kind of thing where you put it in the commercials. People talk about it, right? They're like, ooh, I saw it an Infinity Vision. And I don't know what that is exactly, but it kind of sounds a little bit like VistaVision, which is a very specific kind of way of shooting, right, films.

And I think that for your average consumer, like, it's the kind of thing that might get their brain tickled a little bit. Will it sell tickets to Avengers Doomsday? I forgot the name for a second. That's easy to do. They kind of all merge together. Avengers Doomsday is going to make money regardless, right? I talk about this online all the time.

As much as people like to say, nobody even watches superhero movies anymore. Maybe those box offices beg to differ. You nailed it. You nailed it. Thank you, Charles. Of course. That's it for today.

As always, we love to hear from you. email us at vergecast at theverge.com or call the hotline 866 verge-11. To support what we do and get ad-free podcasts, go to theverge.com slash subscribe. The Vergecast is produced by Josh Kahas, Eric Gomez, Brandon Kiefer and Travis Larchuk. See you next time. Matt Damon Forever.