The Vergecast - The orange iPhone stole the show

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of cross-body straps. I'm your friend David Pierce, and I'm back. I've been gone all summer. I have a two-month-old baby who you will almost certainly hear at some point during this episode. He's just right upstairs right now, and he has a lot of thoughts about a lot of technology. I am so, so happy to be back with all of you. Thank you to Jen and V and Allison and Mia and Jake and everybody who was on the show all summer, hanging out with you guys and talking about tech.

Starting point is 00:00:26 I had a lot of fun listening to the show. I hope you did too, but I'm very glad to be. back yelling all of my feelings into a microphone because this is what I do and this is what I'm here for. And today, I have a lot of stuff to tell you about my summer and all of the stuff that's been going on, but we're going to get to that later. Today, we're talking about Apple. As I'm recording this, Apple's keynote just finished. We got the new AirPods. We got some new watches. We got some new iPhones. We got an iPhone air that I think is like kind of the secret to the whole future of Apple as a company. We have a lot to talk about. And we're going to talk about it with the

Starting point is 00:00:57 folks who were actually on the ground. They have some meetings to do. They have some hands-ons to get. We're going to let them finish all of their stuff. And then they are going to come on the show and tell us about all of it. It's going to be awesome. It's all coming up in just a second. This is the Vergecast. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Retool. Too many companies run critical operations on duct taped spreadsheets, Slack workflows, and whatever else they could cobble together. Not because they want to, but because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog. That's where Retool comes in.

Starting point is 00:01:30 Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need. Prompt something like, build me a revenue dashboard on our Salesforce data. And Retool actually builds it on your company's data in your cloud with enterprise security built in.

Starting point is 00:01:45 Go to retool.com slash Verchcast. We all need to retool how we build software. All right, we're back. Allison Johnson is here in a hotel room somewhere deep in Silicon Valley, I assume at this point.

Starting point is 00:02:01 Yes. How are you holding up? Great. I am coasting on fumes and little appetizers that I ate for lunch, but that's iPhone day, baby. Yeah, this is, this is what we do here. Yeah. You eat, but you have a bunch of coffee first thing in the morning, and then you don't

Starting point is 00:02:17 eat anything else for 11 hours. And that's typically what the day is like. It's good times. And then I'm like, why do I have a headache? Yeah. This is a fun day. And then you get to the end and you remember nothing about any of it. and we all just move on to our lives.

Starting point is 00:02:31 That's true. So this is why we do this podcast. This is to put into the record that this day actually happened for you. And then you never have to think about it ever again. I appreciate that. So obviously it was iPhone Day. I would say one of the less anticipated iPhone days in a minute. It's possible this is just because I have been on parental leave and not like paying attention to tech news for a while.

Starting point is 00:02:56 But I've been like loosely paying attention. And I feel like the summer there's. usually a big rumor mill and a lot of people thinking like big, heady thoughts about what does the iPhone mean and is this the end of the iPhone and what's coming next? This didn't really feel like a super anticipated iPhone season to me. Yeah. Did it feel like one to you? I think it's kind of shifted in a way to where we're, our ears are kind of perking up for WWDC and the sort of Apple intelligence and series stuff because that's just sort of a story right now. I feel like the.

Starting point is 00:03:29 rumors kind of picked up a little bit closer to the event. There were some wild things flying around about like variable zoom lenses and apertures that change. That stuff didn't happen. But it seems like we got the kind of like cosmetic stuff we were expecting. So if your idea of a good time isn't like the iPhone camera bump goes sideways, then you probably weren't too hyped for this one. Fair. Yeah. Yeah, I think this was just, I guess, this sort of year

Starting point is 00:04:07 where no one expected, like, real true fireworks, right? Like, we've been hearing a lot that there is kind of a three-year plan about foldable phones and flip phones. And this just seemed like maybe it was going to be the year before the year. And I think in a bunch of ways it was. And it's actually, this is a good segue into the first phone I want to talk about, which is it feels like we have to start with the iPhone error, right? Which was, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:32 It won't be the most successful phone that Apple launched today, but it will certainly be the one most people talk about for the next week or so at the very least. So the iPhone error, just to run down the specs very quickly, it is quite thin. I don't know exactly how thin. 5.6 millimeters is supposed to be, but it's quite thin.

Starting point is 00:04:53 They said the thinest iPhone ever, it's $1,000. It has 256 gigs of storage. they said it's very durable. It has a bunch of new technology inside it. Surprisingly good battery life. Surprisingly like solid specs next to the rest of the iPhone lineup. But the thing is it's thin. I have a cynical take about this and I have an optimistic take about this.

Starting point is 00:05:19 But mostly what I just want to know is like how does it feel to hold this thing in your hand? It's going to be very irritating, but it feels you kind of have to pick it. it up to understand it. It does feel really light. It is really thin. You know this going in. I've used the Samsung Galaxy S25 Edge, had the same experience of like, who cares, a thin phone? Like, people want battery life. What's the big deal? And then you hold it and you use it. And you're like, oh, this, this really is kind of different. Same experience picking up the iPhone air. it feels like it's just it's strange we're so attuned to how like how heavy a phone should be so you read the difference on a piece of paper and you're like that's not the weight especially you're

Starting point is 00:06:10 like that's too much that much lighter you pick it up you're like oh my god I feel like I'm gonna break this thing it's so tiny in terms of what it feels like to pick it up right I think there's like there's like whoa this thing is thin and there's right next to that feeling there is like oh my God, am I going to break this? And I think that was one of the feelings I saw from a lot of people was like, is this thing going to snap in my back pocket because it's so thin? Is this thing going to just like fall apart if I look at it wrong because it's so thin? And I was thinking a lot about the M4 iPad Pro that launched like last year in 2024, which is the closest thing I've had to, it sounds like the experience you had today, which is I picked up the thing and it was, it's this

Starting point is 00:06:53 incredibly, like, impossibly thin iPad. And, you know, we're reporters at a press event. I'm, like, trying to play it cool. It's like, don't, don't be weird. Don't clap in the event. Like, I picked it up in front of an Apple PR person and completely involuntarily just went, holy shit. Yeah. And I had this moment of being like, this thing isn't supposed to feel like this. And I don't know that it meaningfully changed my experience of using it for the next year. But I liked it more because of that. And that counts for something. And so it's like, is that the kind of experience you're talking about here where it's like this isn't, I don't know, maybe it is some incredible engineering marvel where you're like, I can't even believe this is a smartphone anymore. Or maybe it's just like,

Starting point is 00:07:34 it feels cool and that counts for something. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. It's like maybe this exists because Apple and Samsung are just like, well, we ran out of things to do. So we're going to make it thin now. Maybe it exists because they're like, we need to sell. more phones. How about something that looks different and feels different? For me, it was little moments like using the Galaxy Edge especially where, especially with a phone, you are taking it everywhere you go. I have so many different pants I put it in the pockets of and bags. And every time it kind of fits into a bag that I'm used to shoving a bulky phone into. I was like, oh, this is nice. It feels just like just a little

Starting point is 00:08:25 moment of, oh, okay. Yeah. I see the point of this. Do you think it'll use differently? Like, I think you're probably right that it'll carry differently because it's thinner and lighter and smaller that way. But like, and you've only used it a little bit. So I, you can reserve judgment on this for now. But is your sense that like it'll actually feel different to manipulate the thing because is it's thinner this way? The thing I kind of wonder, especially since like the pro iPhones have gotten so big and heavy. And the thing that I get tired of is sitting and reading kind of one-handed, that might feel better over a length of time. You know, it's the kind of thing you notice if you're living with the device and hard to say when you pick it up for, you know,

Starting point is 00:09:17 know, five minutes and there's 30 people behind you, um, wanting you to move out of the way. Um, yeah, it's, it's going to save us from our pinky divvets is what you're, is what you're saying. Like the thing where we all hold the phones like this and you get the, you get the, you get the hole in like, nothing can save us from pinky divots. I know, it's here to stay. Um, no, but yeah, it could, it could be meaningfully more comfortable to use. Um, but I think it, It might end up being a lot of like it is just a little bit less of a pain in the butt to put into a bag and carry around and it looks kind of cool.

Starting point is 00:09:57 Yeah. And I will say I really do by the theory that it looks kind of cool means something, right? Like especially these things are so like a commoditized in our life, but also be like ever present things in our lives. And I think making it nicer to look at and hold for its own. sake is actually fine. And I think with so much technology, we've actually gotten away from that, that everything is just like slabby glass rectangles that are made for ruthless efficiency and nothing else. So like even if I don't buy it, which I don't think I will, I appreciate the idea that there

Starting point is 00:10:35 is one that mostly exists just to be the nice one. What is tough for me is it does feel like you are making one big, huge giant sacrifice, which is that there's only one damn camera on. thing. That is the thing. Yeah. And it's, you can sort of understand it on like a $600 phone. This one is $9.99. So this is like the folding phone problem where they're like, oh, what if what if we had all this other cool stuff? But the most important feature kind of sucked and it was more expensive. Do you want that? And people are like, no. Right. Yeah. It does feel like it goes in the opposite direction and battery too. You know, same with the flip.

Starting point is 00:11:17 phones, you know, they have smaller batteries and that's a thing they've had to contend with year after year and they've caught up a little bit. But it sort of feels like, yeah, why take a step backwards potentially on battery life and camera and still pay $1,000 for a phone? I think that might be a non-starter for some people. Maybe some people really don't care that much about how many cameras are on the back or how many of their photos are 2X optical quality zoom versus, you know, with the main standard focal length. Yeah, there's, there are all kinds of people in this world, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, this phone is a little bit like death by a thousand cuts is too strong, but it is, there are just, it has a lot of little dings against it in the certain.

Starting point is 00:12:14 of being like really beautiful and really thin. And again, that that's fine, right? Like, they make other phones. I think if this was the iPhone 17, I think we'd have a big problem. But the fact that this is something different, I actually think is great. And I will be fascinated to see how it does. And it's made me think a lot about like the Tesla Roadster and even like the Vision Pro and this thing that some companies do where they're like, we are just going to make this thing because we can and it's going to be the best it can be. And typically it's like wildly expensive. I actually expected the air to be significantly more expensive than it is. Like this thing would almost make more sense to me at like $1,500 than it does at $999. But to say basically,

Starting point is 00:13:01 like we've built some really interesting technology here. And this is, this is my optimistic thesis about the iPhone air is that this thing is like a science project, right? This is, this is tech that you have to develop if you're Apple in order to do lots of things. things, right? A bunch of people have pointed out that inside the camera bump on the iPhone air is essentially the whole thing. So you've put a massive amount of compute power and all this stuff into a very tiny sliver of the device, which is the kind of thing that you have to continue to miniaturize if you want to do all the other things that Apple presumably wants to do with robots and glasses and wearables and everything else. Like you can sort of pry this thing open and see where it

Starting point is 00:13:40 wants to go with lots of different devices. This is what you have to do to make a flip phone. really works. This is what you have to do to make a foldable phone that really works. A lot of the work it did on the titanium frame and making this thing durable and this is the stuff you have to do to do all of that stuff. So it's like if this is basically all the tech they had to build anyway that they just put into a nice looking phone that they'll sell you in the meantime, that's cool. My cynical take is basically what you already just said, which is that they've completely run out of ideas. And they're like, well, we can make it kind of thinner. Is that anything?

Starting point is 00:14:12 And I would say I'm in the, I'm fully in the 50-50 camp where I think it is very much both of those things. Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. And I think Apple's had a tough time figuring out that kind of second standard iPhone. There, we had the mini, you know, rested soul. And then we had the plus models. And it didn't sound like those sold as well as Apple wanted them to. So they're like, well, what do we have to lose? And I think there really is something, too, if you're developing a thin phone for a folding phone, like, why not put it out there now? And this is, yeah, kind of a good testing ground.

Starting point is 00:15:00 Yeah, I don't hate it. Like, I really hope we look at all of these phones in like 2027, 2028, and you can point right back to the iPhone error and see where all that stuff started to shit. Like I hope that is where all of this lands. Let's talk about the phones people are actually going to buy. Because I think I'm like sincerely looking forward to seeing how many people buy the air because I suspect a lot of people are going to go to an Apple store and look at it and leave with a different phone. That is 100% my plan. And I'm very excited about it. But let's start with the iPhone 17, which I actually think this is an interesting play for Apple here to try and figure out its normal phones.

Starting point is 00:15:34 So last year I bought a 16 after years of buying pros. I bought a regular 16 because I wanted it to be blue. And I love this blue phone to death, even though everything about it is worse than the pro. And it felt like a huge sacrifice to get a blue phone. And it was. And this is the life that I have chosen for myself. The 17 feels closer to having the right set of features for almost everybody than it hasn't a long time. So let me just run down a bunch of them for you.

Starting point is 00:16:07 because God only knows what numbers you are able to remember at this time of day. So it's just the iPhone 17, like you mentioned, no plus. Our whole theory about big cheap screens was evidently just dead wrong. The iPhone Plus is at least for now no longer. It starts at $799. It starts with 256 kids of storage. As an A19 chip, it has a 6.3 inch display, which is an incorrect decision because you and I both agree that 6.1 inches is the correct size for a smartphone screen. and Apple blew it on that one.

Starting point is 00:16:40 It has a pro motion screen, which it seemed like they gendered a lot of enthusiasm in the Steve Jobs Theater today. Actual cheering. There was real cheering. Yeah. It's got the always-on display stuff. It has better scratch resistance.

Starting point is 00:16:54 It has substantially longer battery life, which I think is really interesting. Upgraded cameras, slightly faster wireless charging. It's a little heavier. It has more Bluetooth. that's just like, you know, bits and bobs have changed around the edges. But like fundamentally the thing is like a better, faster, more durable, longer lasting iPhone,

Starting point is 00:17:16 which feels like roughly the list of things I would have actually asked Apple to do, which is great. Yeah. I know. It feels like a good year. And I said this last year for the 16, which was catching up a little bit. And it felt like a good year. I think it really is a good year for the for the regular. iPhone 17, getting the promotion display, like, thank God, our national nightmare is over. I think our colleague Dominic Preston pointed out in some of our coverage that you can get a 120-hurt display on like a $200 Android phone, you know. It was time. So it's here. And I will say, just a real quick PSA to anyone who is wondering, what is a promotion display?

Starting point is 00:18:00 What is the difference? Don't find out. If you don't know the difference. Yeah. Don't ever find out. Like, you're going to be like, oh, let me hold the phone that I have next to a pro-motion display. Don't do that. No.

Starting point is 00:18:14 Because once you see the difference, it ruins it for you. But if you don't see the difference, like, God bless, your life is going to be better for not knowing the difference between a 60 hertz and 120 hertz display. But once you see it, you can never unsee it. And I now see it every time I turn on my iPhone 16. And I came on this podcast a year ago and said, I said I don't care and boy was I wrong. Oh, no, you care a year later. Oh, that was the great experiment.

Starting point is 00:18:40 It is like a curse and a horror movie where once you are burdened with the knowledge, it just follows you. Yeah. So thank God. ProMotion display is here. I know you are not partial to the always on display. I love an always on display. Every time I switch from an iPhone that has an always on display to the one that doesn't.

Starting point is 00:19:04 I keep thinking it shut itself off. I'm like, why is this phone dead? Yeah. Wait, so I have the exact opposite experience. This is so funny. So I think, I'm not against an always on display. I think the way the pixel doesn't always on display is exactly correct. Like, show me the time and like the barest bit of information from a notification.

Starting point is 00:19:24 That is, that is what I want from an always on display. My problem with the iPhone's version of the always on display has been that I turn my screen off and it still feels like it's on. Yeah. And try as I might. I have never been able to get used to the thing where my screen, like, granted, it's called an always on display, but it just feels like it's on. And I find myself instinctively going to turn the screen off over and over and over and over and over throughout the day. And I always end up turning it off before I get used to the feature. Okay.

Starting point is 00:19:53 But I will say, I have come to believe that I am in the minority of that. And I think most people like the thing where they can look over and sort of get a rough sense of their phone without picking up. their phone. And I think that's probably a good thing for the world, too. And so, like, this feels like a good feature to have everyone. I think so. Yeah. And the wallpaper, if you're not used to the dimmed wallpaper. And it sort of depends on what you have on some, some wallpapers. You're like, yeah, this is not off enough of an always on display. So super glad that's here. I am always, I don't know if I just get my hopes up when, companies say that their screens are more scratch-resistant.

Starting point is 00:20:39 Every single year, I'm like, this is my year. I always get scratches on the screen. I'm just reckless. I put my car keys next to the phone in a fanny pack, and they're just touching each other. But they're making, you know, big claims about how scratch-resistant the thermic shield is. So, yeah, good things. coming to the basic iPhone.

Starting point is 00:21:06 I'm going to shout out the sage on the regular iPhone. Looks great. And I really like it. Is that the one they call natural? No, they call it. It's an actual stage. Which I'm pretty sure. We've had a sage pixel.

Starting point is 00:21:21 So they just come around. I do appreciate the push towards the like slightly earthy colors. I have actually, I have come to enjoy that very much. It's calming. Does the base iPhone 17 have the awesome new front. camera? Yes. They all have a new... Okay, can we talk about this for a second? This seems super cool. Can you explain like what this new selfie camera is up to? Yeah. So it's a new 18 megapixel sensor and it is a square format sensor. So rather than having to turn the whole phone to do switch between like portrait and landscape mode, it can do it in sensor and it doesn't lose a bunch of resolution in the process. So you can do this, you know, you frame up a selfie and you can tap a couple of icons on the screen to expand or rotate the picture. Or you can have it, you know, it's center stage where it will kind of follow you around the frame automatically or it'll do the rotating by itself.

Starting point is 00:22:26 So if someone joins you in the photo, it'll just go boop and you'll both be in it. This might sound like slight hyperbole, but I honestly think the ability to take landscape selfies while holding your phone in portrait is like the most exciting iPhone upgrade in years. Truly, because it's the sort of thing you can do all the time. Landscape selfies always look worse because the camera is suddenly off to the side and half the people in the selfie are looking to this side of the camera and half the people are looking to this side of the camera. Nobody is correctly looking at the camera. Everything just looks wrong. you're not able to get as far away and hold it as naturally. So like this thing where you can hold your phone the way your phone is meant to be held and take whatever kind of photo you want, I think is like amazing.

Starting point is 00:23:13 I think Center Stage is like kind of a wacky feature. It makes more sense to me on an iPhone, frankly, than most because people tend to be sort of all over the place as they're holding their iPhone. Like sometimes I FaceTime with my nephew and he's just literally like holding it at his side. And so I'm just looking sort of up the side of his face. And so the idea of trying to solve some of these problems makes a lot of sense. But truly just the square sensor alone, I think, is just genius. Yeah. I'm here for it.

Starting point is 00:23:42 Whenever I'm changing between, you know, selfie camera orientations, I feel like I always have something else in my hand. I have to put something down. And I'm like holding, like totally adjusting the way I'm holding the phone. So yeah, I think there was a lot of kind of like ooze and ah from the crowd when they talked about this. one. I will say it means I will never, ever use the camera control as a shutter button ever again. The only time I ever use it is for landscape photos. And there is absolutely no reason I will ever touch it again. Uh-oh, RIP camera control. Now it's just only going to be by accident instead of mostly by accident. Yeah. So let's talk about the pro and pro max, both of which still exists. Only the plus got the axe this time.

Starting point is 00:24:28 The story here, I think, is kind of the same, usually as the pro and pro max, better camera, niftier, you know, hardware features. They talked a lot about a vapor chamber and vapor cooled performance, none of which means anything to a real person who just wants to use their phone, but I'm sure is like neat and cool. The thing that is the most interesting, I think, about the design is they have extended the camera bump all the way across the back. Again, you've seen it. This is new for an iPhone. How does it look? It looks all right. I was sort of unsure. You know, the rumors about this redesign have been coming in for a while. And it's hard to tell, you know, from pictures. Apple really did make a lot of the, they started from scratch, you know, when they, in the presentation, you just see like a big chunk of aluminum. you're like, oh yeah, we're going to mill the shit out of aluminum. I bet this is going to be smaller later.

Starting point is 00:25:33 It was going to be sick. Yeah, and they made a phone out of it. But there is kind of a cohesive element to the body and the camera bump. They are calling it a camera plateau. I refuse to acknowledge this. I will not look directly at it. And I'm going to call a camera bump. That's what it is.

Starting point is 00:25:50 It is a bump for a camera. Exactly. Don't make it like. geography. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a thing. It's fine. Although I said this about the dynamic island for like a year and a half and now I just unironically say the dynamic island. And every time I do, I hate myself a little more. So I assume this will happen with the plateau as well. Probably. This is one of those things that I know a bunch of people were like having, you know, thoughts about as an Apple design thing. And it is to be clear, the last company to decide to do this. Everybody else has been doing the full width camera bump for a while now. I'm fine with it. I think I've been using the pixel 10 pro a bunch for the last few days. And A, it makes cases make more sense. Like this just looks nicer to have a case with the thing all the way across. And then also, it sits caseless better. Like it is at that little tiny bit of an angle instead of being the teeny tiny bit of wobbly that the iPhone has always been. And it just seems fine to me. Like I am completely unbothered by this decision that Apple made a And I think if anything, it actually looks visually less asymmetrical in a way that I really like. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Yeah, I'm into it. I think the thing that in person, I was caught off guard more by. So the body of the phone itself is aluminum. They went back to the aluminum, the chunk of aluminum. No titanium. They kind of walked away from that. The air is titanium. But so the pro is aluminum.

Starting point is 00:27:24 But a big chunk of the back panel is that ceramic shield. Like the same stuff on the front? Yeah. And it's, so it's not glass and it's colored like the phone, but it's sort of, they're different materials. So they have kind of a different look to them. It almost looks like it's like a two-tone thing where you're like, this is an orange phone with a cool little orange thing in the middle of it. it. The idea is that it won't crack and splinter into a million pieces when your three-year-old drops it on some concrete. I'm not pointing any fingers. But I did walk

Starting point is 00:28:09 around Apple Park with this phone in a phone case because my review unit of 16 Pro is shattered. Oh, no. Yeah, not a great look. It's tough. Yeah, it's tough out there for a phone. I've only ever destroyed one review unit and it was, it was an iPhone that I was, I will, this is like seared into my brain. I was in the Safeway grocery store and I took my phone out to look at my grocery list, went, okay, cool, I'm ready to go. I have everything I need. Went to put it in my pocket, missed my pocket and literally just threw the phone onto the ground. And it essentially exploded into a thousand pieces on the floor of the Safeway. And so I took a picture and I sent it to the Applecoms people and I was like, I don't know what you want me to do this.

Starting point is 00:28:57 But I'm happy to mail all of these pieces of glass to you. Oh, God. Did they have to get the broom out where they like clean up? No, but I did ask somebody for a paper towel so that I could bring all the pieces together. It was tough. But anyway, just know that you're not alone. Okay, thank you. This happens to all of us. Yeah. But I agree in all of these cases, I think an actually interesting through line of a lot of Apple's announcements today was. things that are more durable.

Starting point is 00:29:25 And I think that's great. Like, that is, that is a company that realizes that people keeps these things longer and is okay with that and wants to make that work for them. And I think that rules. Like, I'm very happy about this. Yeah. Can we talk about the pro cameras for just a minute? Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:29:39 Because good thing about the pro cameras, there's three of them. They're all 48 megapixels now. Bad thing about the cameras, Apple has used that fact to do a bunch of insane math about cameras that doesn't make any sense to me. And you're a person who understands cameras better than I do. So what I don't understand is how are there three cameras but also eight cameras? And it all feels like lies. Can you explain what's going on here to me?

Starting point is 00:29:59 I know. So, yeah, how did we get here? It started with, you know, the 48 megapixel sensor has enough resolution that you can crop and use the middle of it and not have to upscale it to zoom in. So you can get a two-time optical quality zoom, air quotes. This is Apple's term for it. Which is not the same thing as optical zoom. As you have said before on this podcast, it's just cropping. It is cropping.

Starting point is 00:30:33 It's just cropping. It can be good cropping, but it's still just cropping. Good cropping. They will, of course, say they do, they have a special pipeline for it. And it's really wonderful and beautiful. So it's been doing that in the 1X camera. and you can get these other kind of like 35 millimeter equivalent focal links with sort of similar stuff going on. They've been doing that.

Starting point is 00:30:58 There's the wide angle camera, of course, and then upgrading the telephoto camera to 48 megapixels this year. And at the same time, downgrading the zoom from 5x to 4X or the focal length. It's not zooming. They just copy and paste in the same concept. over the telephoto where they're like, we can crop into the middle and give you an eight times optical quality zoom. We didn't do any digital zoom upscaling. You won't see any gross artifacts from that kind of thing. Although you can do digital zoom to 40 times and it's not good. And then it'll do weird AI shenanigans. Oh, boy. That's a can of worms. Yeah. Okay. I mean, on the one hand, it's all marketing lies, and we should say so. But on the other hand, I think a lot about like just the regular people I see using their phone. And it is such a common behavior still to pinch and zoom on your phone to 3.6x and then take the picture. Right? And it's like my heart dies a little bit every time I see somebody do that because it's something like, oh, you've just made your picture worse. when you could have just done that later. But actually, they don't understand that,

Starting point is 00:32:22 and nor should they have to. And in some ways, Apple is making that process cleaner. Right? It's saying, we're going to give you options that are optimized and are going to make more sense so that you can do these things that are destructive and they're going to make your image worse, but in a way that we are going to take slightly better care of you for.

Starting point is 00:32:42 And I think that's something. I don't know how much that is, but it feels like something. And it gives you the little buttons at the bottom of the screen that makes it simple. It's like 1x, 2x, you know, 4X. We understand that. I can push a button that says 2X rather than, yeah, pinch and zoom to something between 2 and 3 that's going to look kind of crappy for no good reason. It hurts every time.

Starting point is 00:33:07 I know. I sit there and cringe when they're like eight lenses in your pocket. it, but the reality is like it's better than just a free-for-all of digital Zoom, I think. Yeah, and if they would just call it like camera simulators, it would be fine, right? Because that's essentially what it is, right? It's you're doing presets, and those presets are designed to simulate the experience of certain kinds of camera. That I think is great. I have no problem with that.

Starting point is 00:33:37 Lots of camera apps do that and do it well and are like, oh, we're going to do X, Y, Z filter to make it look like a film camera. I have no problem with that. just don't say your three lenses or eight lenses because they're not. Like that's it. That's my only, that's my only grape. I can look at the phone and see how many lenses there are. Yeah. We don't need to do any more work than that.

Starting point is 00:33:54 As someone who carried around a big, heavy, actual zoom lens with a lot of actual focal links. Yeah, I take issue with that. Yeah. That said, I do think there's a strong chance this camera is going to be very good. It has a bunch of new, you know, it does. It does pro res raw. It does log two. It does gen lock.

Starting point is 00:34:15 It's got the simultaneous front and back recording, which I think is very cool. Like this continues to be a camera phone in a very real way for Apple. And I think that makes a lot of sense. What I wonder particularly about with the pro and pro max this year is how sort of far that still goes. Right? Like it's it is better. There's no question it is better. But the biggest price.

Starting point is 00:34:42 problem that I think people have had with Apple cameras, especially for the last one or two revs of the iPhone, is like Apple's ideas about what makes good photos. And I think it's so much about the imaging pipeline that Apple has decided. And this thing where they're like, we're going to crush all of the dynamic range and make sure there's no shadows and make sure every photo is usable that like this idea that people have that their phone photos are getting worse is not about the hardware. It's about Apple's ideas about what your photos are supposed to look like. And even just looking at the sample photos and stuff, here, it's like, maybe we're just pointing even better hardware at that exact same problem. I just don't know. Yeah. I have a lot of

Starting point is 00:35:22 conflicting feelings about it because, yeah, we've all seen the over-hDR look, the crunchiness. I talked to Mark LaVoy a couple weeks ago, kind of about that problem with phone cameras in general. And he pointed out, you know, that their job is to make the photo readable on screens of different sizes in different lighting conditions. And, you know, I think, I think we know that. I'm like, yeah, that's why everything in the foreground looks brightened. And because Apple can't be in trouble when your relative was like in the shadows in this photo. Does it make for a camera that that people actively like is another thing. Apple is still, they've got the photographic styles,

Starting point is 00:36:17 and they've sort of gone, here, it's your problem now, where you dial in kind of how you like skin tones, you do like contrast, do you like, you know, an actual HDR in your photos. And I don't think they've solved anything. It's there if you know how, to go change those things and what they mean. And there's a subset of users that will do that, right?

Starting point is 00:36:43 Like, you can buy the ProMax all the way up to, I think it's two grand with two terabytes of storage. And the people who are going to buy that phone are the people who are going to go in and dial this stuff in in a way that works. And I think I've long been a proponent that Apple should give people more control of their devices. And so, like, yay, that's great. I'm into that.

Starting point is 00:37:03 I really, really wonder in these particular cases if Apple is going to, going to give people more sort of front and center ways to make things look just better, right? Because I think like your point and Marks about like it is there to prevent you from taking bad photos is a good and honorable goal, but that's not the same thing as taking good photos. And I think these phones are designed and they cost like they are for people who want to take good photos and video. And I don't know, like as you review these things whenever you get to, I'm very curious how you feel about the actual stuff that's coming out of the camera.

Starting point is 00:37:42 Because that's ultimately like there are better cameras than ever, but Apple still has to make a lot of decisions about them. Yeah, yeah. Having feelings about phone cameras is my jam. So what we do here. Yeah. All right. Well, I should let you go here. But do you have a bet on, there's four models here?

Starting point is 00:38:03 Do you think there's one that is going to be the like sneaky runaway success? hit of the line coming out? I think there's going to be a lot of orange iPhone 17 pros on the street. I think it's killing. Yeah, it's a real vibrant color. It looks nice. I think it's going to be a hit. And it screams, I have the new one in a way that's very hard to do with an iPhone.

Starting point is 00:38:27 Exactly. Yeah. I like it. That's a good take. All right, we need to take a break. Allison, you, I'm sure, have more stuff to do. So thank you for coming to newness with us. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:38:35 All right. We'll be right back. Support for this show comes from Shopify. Every thriving, successful business has to start somewhere. A good place to start is a relatively simple question. What if, given the right tools, I really put my all into this. One tool that can help grow your sprouting business to new heights is Shopify. Millions of businesses around the world rely on Shopify for e-commerce.

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Starting point is 00:39:39 That's Shopify.com slash vergecast. All right, we're back. V Song is here. Hi, V. Hello. How are you feeling? Let's just talk about your mental state for a minute here. It's, that's my mental state.

Starting point is 00:40:01 That's how it is. Yeah. Yeah. How, so this is the first iPhone event I have not been at in a while. How does this compare? You've been doing this for a while. What were your vibes compared to recent ones? It's a little weird, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:40:14 In some sense, it's like, oh, business as usual. And in another sense, I just felt like there was some tension in the air just of like what is on deck, what's happening. And I think we all had a sense that the air was coming. We knew that watches were coming. I think everyone was pretty clear that AirPods were coming. But like when you walk out of it, usually there's like one or two things that you're like, oh, this is the stuff. And now it's like skinny phone and orange.

Starting point is 00:40:43 Which I must say, I'm an orange hater. I like, orange is on my shit list. And I looked at that orange phone and I went, oh, that's a good orange. I'm tempted. Do I want an orange phone? Am I going to have an orange phone? Existential crisis. I mean, I have an existential crisis every week, but this is my existential crisis.

Starting point is 00:41:01 Do I want an orange phone? I don't know. I don't know. I kind of want an orange phone. I do feel like the Internet has spent the entirety of today. by and large coming around to the orange phone. I feel like we first saw the orange phone and everybody went like, absolutely not.

Starting point is 00:41:14 No, thank you. And one by one, everyone I saw in blue sky was like, maybe I liked the orange phone. I will say like the weeks that came out, especially, I think I saw one earlier today. And I was like, is that orange or is that doo-do brown? Like a doo-do brown orange. Because if it's a do-do brown orange, we are going to have to do-do that over. But it is, I will say, it's not a Sherbaix orange, like Charles. Charles, Charles Pollyamore asked me this.

Starting point is 00:41:40 He went, is it spice or is it Sherbet? It is spice. It is like a pumpkin spice, autumn vibes, but bright and it's just like a quintessential deep orange. And like I said, I am an orange hater. I'm Miss Purple. I am the Virg's foremost expert on good shades of purple. And I was like, do I want an orange phone? Do I want an orange?

Starting point is 00:42:06 something I'm going to be asking myself for the next few days. It is the most important question facing us in America right now, I would say. But I want to talk to you about AirPods, and I want to talk to you about watches. And we have four products to cover, and I have them in the order in which I find them interesting, which is maybe not the order that is going to make sense, but this is just the order we're going to do it. Which I think means we need to start with the AirPods first, because I think to me, the AirPods Pro 3 were like the single most straightforward slam-dense. dunk great new product at this event. I would agree with you.

Starting point is 00:42:40 They just are good. It's just chef's kiss like, you know, optimizer issue one, which I'm just going to plug here, subscribe. But in that, I basically was like, I think Apple just needs to give the people what they want in general. And I was speaking specifically to the watches. But I think the AirPods 3 is just what people want.

Starting point is 00:43:04 It's just, you know, genuinely good. I've spent some time with the product. I got to test out the ANC. I got to tell you, I was very impressed by the ANC. Like, I'm wearing the AirPods two, so I'm not wearing the three right now. Gross. But yesterday is news. But I got to say I was in that little room where you have the hands on. You know, David, it echoes. The music is playing. People are talking. It's loud. You know, they were doing demos on that floor, I put them in my, I put them in my ear holes and everything's quiet. And I can just hear the dulcet sounds of the F1 soundtrack, because that is the playlist that that had us listen to.

Starting point is 00:43:48 Of course. But that's pretty impressive because I would actually, I would compare an Apple hands-on room to like a pretty busy train station. Right? It's like there's a lot of sort of hustle and bustle. There's no like specific loud noise, which is actually in many cases easy. to cancel. It's like the reason they're good on planes is because it's just one noise the whole time. But this is just kind of stuff happening. So to be able to do that on a pair of A, very small headphones and be like in an environment like that is really impressive. And I think the pros have

Starting point is 00:44:23 been impressive for a while at that, in part just because they have that seal in your ears. Yeah. But like the ANC here, they said like the world's best ANC over and over to the point where it's like, I kind of think you're lying. Right. But maybe there's something to this. I think there's something to it, especially in this particular form factor. Like, of course, I think it's going to be really hard to be over your cans. And obviously, I have some at home.

Starting point is 00:44:47 I'm going to see how they compare to my Sony Alphabet Soup XM4. I just know the last three. But I would say that I did notice a different. Because I use these AirPods Pro 2s quite frequently. And I did notice a difference. And I think it really has to do with the fact. that they've improved the fit, which my conspiracy theory is, yeah, you know, part, they talked a lot about design at this event. And you always know that it's going to be kind of like a, hmm, interesting event when design is like the thesis that they're, they're coming to with it. But, you know, they're like, oh, it fits in your ear more ergonomically. And when you do hold the three versus the two in your hand, you can see that there have been like changes to the shape. But my, my pet theory is that when you add heart rate sensors to an ear. but you need to nail the fit.

Starting point is 00:45:37 If the fit doesn't, if the fit isn't absolutely perfect, that particular sensor is useless to you. So I think it's like a confluence of things. You want to have the best A and C, but also having a really secure fit in order to get heart rate, that's just going to make the seal better regardless. And then on top of that, there's five sizes of tips now. Mine were medium, so it's just fine straight out of the case. But, you know, I was, I was quite impressed.

Starting point is 00:46:07 It's actually, the set of hardware things they did here is pretty impressive, right? So in addition, right, there's the heart rate sensor. It's, I think, a slightly lighter whole thing when you include the headphones and the case. The whole package is slightly lighter. It's IP57 dust sweat resistance, which is like, to be clear, is not the same as my headphones are waterproof. Like, like, please, dear sweet Jesus, do not. think your headphones are waterproof. But this is better. And this is the first time Apple has given these things a real proper, they will withstand this stuff rating that I feel comfortable and

Starting point is 00:46:44 good with. So that's exciting. Better battery life. More ear tips. Like you said, the heart rate sensor. It'll do live translation. This is a lot of hardware stuff to do in headphones. This is not just like, we improved the software and it'll connect more cleanly to your Mac so that it'll ring every time you get a phone call on all of your computers now. This is like real genuine hardware stuff inside of these, which is awesome. It's very substantial. And, you know, I think like I was mentioning with the fit kind of playing into the ANC, some of it is also just kind of, I think there's the most thesis in this device across all of the ones that were released today. Because on the one hand, you know, we're slowly like giving baby sprinkles of AI in there with the translation.

Starting point is 00:47:33 And that is the thing that we've been seeing across the board from other companies. But it's most natural, I think. It's one thing to translate a phone call on a phone. And yay, Gemini, yay, all of the whatever live translation for phone calls. But it's very natural to have it in your AirPods when you're going about. It kind of just makes sense to have it built into the actual buds themselves. Totally. And then just I, as someone who works out, was kind of,

Starting point is 00:48:03 like, oh my God, you're allowing standalone workouts with the AirPods alone. You don't need an Apple Watch anymore. You can just do 50 types of workouts, and it's quite extensive. I did get a demo of this of the heart rate sensor and how the standalone workout session is going to go. And I was like, oh, this is huge for people with wrist tattoos because I consistently hear from people who are like, I don't want to wear a chest strap. I don't want to, my Apple Watch doesn't really do heart rate well because I have a whole sleeve. There's just a tattoo there. Well, you don't need to worry about that anymore.

Starting point is 00:48:40 You can just have it in your ears and use that to track. Or, you know, I have friends who do boxing. They can't wear a watch while they box. But they want the heart rate stuff. So you could just do it that way. It's kind of having a new modality that's open to you for heart rate tracking. and, you know, it's actually better, in my opinion, than the Power Beats Pro 2, which introduced this. And so, you know, there was kind of a sense that the heart rate tracking was coming.

Starting point is 00:49:10 But it's better because it's going to work in tandem with your Apple Watch. So you can have a multiple streams of data with the Power Beats Pro 2. It's always going to defer to your Apple Watch. This will go, hmm, so you have a stream of heart rate data from your earbuds. Oh, you have a heart. stream of heart rate data from your wrist, which one is more accurate right now? Which one is giving you the better signal? And it'll switch between those. Which is like an incredibly apply way of thinking about things, right? Like if you want to describe the thing that Apple tends

Starting point is 00:49:43 to be better at than anybody else, it is precisely that thing. And half of that thing is making you buy more devices that do largely redundant things. But the other half is like actually making the sum greater or actually making the whole greater than the sum of its parts. And that is meaningful. And I think that's very cool. So I think to me, yeah, the AirPods Pro 3 are like if you're in the market for AirPods, these sound like they're going to kick ass. It's probably overkill if you're not really like an exercise person. But to me, honestly, for the IP 57 alone, as someone who has had weather and laundry ruin multiple pairs of AirPods over the years, like that alone is a huge upgrade for me. I mean, that's a huge thing for me too, as someone who has been caught in downpours

Starting point is 00:50:26 while running. So it's, I've, I've wrecked earbuds that way. So it is a pretty, it's a pretty, I don't know, I think it's surprisingly like the sleeper hit, in my opinion, as far as utility goes, as far as it like, should I upgrade? I mean, of course I'm going to test them and I'm going to live with them and tell you everything that is great and not great about it. But if you're a day one, I don't give a crap what reviewers think, this is the thing that I think makes most sense on paper to upgrade to. Totally. So, okay, let's talk about the watches,

Starting point is 00:50:59 which I would argue are substantially less straightforward. And what I realized to me is I actually think the watches are most interesting, like directly in order from cheapest to most expensive, which is not how I have felt about the Apple Watch before. Ordinarily, I would have said, like, the middle one, the sort of vanilla Apple Watch is the one. The SE is the one if and only if you just can't afford it, like understand, but like, if you can, if there's any way at all to get the regular

Starting point is 00:51:28 watch, get the watch. And then the ultra is if you're like a lunatic in several ways. But I don't feel that way anymore. Now, I want to start with the watch SE3, which I think might now be the correct Apple Watch for most people. Let me just run you through some of the specs here that I think are like big, giant huge upgrades. $249.00, lovely price, faster processor, longer battery life, stronger glass. It has an always on display, which is one of the like main things a watch should do is tell you the time all the time. It has 5G. It has better battery, not great battery, but it has better battery.

Starting point is 00:52:03 It has more of the gesture stuff that the other watches have had. It's missing some of the like really high end fitness health stuff. But if you can do without that and what you want is just like a smart watch for other smart watch things, this feels like the biggest upgrade by a mile in this line. 100% I was sitting there going like, am I most excited about the SE3? Right? That was not on my bingo card. And to be quite honest, I am most excited about the SE3 because it is the most substantial of the updates.

Starting point is 00:52:36 And it's a confusing move in some respects because now the gap between the SE and the series, it's razor thin. Yes. It's basically health. Health is the big differentiator between the two. I would say health and battery life. But one of the things that's not coming to the SE3 is the high blood pressure feature that's currently going through FDA clearance. I think they're pretty confident that they will get that clearance soon. Yeah, there was a footnote, I think, that said by the end of this month, they expect the hypertension stuff to be FDA approved.

Starting point is 00:53:09 So, like, who knows, but that's that. Who knows, but they seem pretty confident. And if we look at Apple's track history, or track record, is a lot better than Withings. It's a lot better than that one. So, you know, it's kind of one of those things where I sat there and I was like, okay, you know, one of the things that the SE3 is getting is also a speaker. That was a thing that was gate kept to the flagship last year. It truly is, what are you missing? You're missing blood oxygen.

Starting point is 00:53:43 You're missing EKGs. You're missing that high blood pressure thing, but you're getting. sleep apnea, you're getting the sleep score. And the reason why you're not getting the high blood pressure thing is because it does not have the most up-to-date optical heart rate sensor, which, you know, it's good enough. You don't get the 24-hour battery life, which we have to talk about the significance of it being 24 for the series 11. But it is getting fast charging for the first time. And I have talked to dozens, bazillions. Many, many, many. I Apple watch users.

Starting point is 00:54:21 I have talked to them. And they either fall into the category of like, well, it's no garment. It's not lasting forever. Or the very like, well, if you just charge it when you shower, what's the big deal, yo? And, you know, 15 minutes on the charger.

Starting point is 00:54:35 Supposedly going to get you eight hours-ish of battery life. So as long as you shower every eight hours, you should be fine. You should be fine. So I actually, let's talk about battery life. And this is a good segue into the series 11 because I think, the single most important spec of the Apple Watch right now is battery life. In terms of like, A, your ongoing enjoyment of the product, B, the set of things that you can do with it, especially I think I'm more and more converted to cellular Apple Watch all the time.

Starting point is 00:55:08 I don't own a cellular watch right now, but I am confident the next one I buy will be a cellular one. Because there's just a set of things that suddenly become possible. But that also is going to destroy battery life. we're at this place now where like the SC3 says 18 hours of battery and that just isn't enough because what that means is going to die before I can charge it. It just does. Here's the thing. Apple always says 18, but they're the opposite of Samsung where I have like yelled at Samsung many years in a row by them overestimating or overpromising on the battery life of their watches and them fall. I admit I'm a power user, but them falling short of the promises. And me being like, yo, that's dumb. And Apple has always underpromised and overdelivered with battery life. That is true.

Starting point is 00:55:57 It depends year to year. So it's not always going to be better or whatever, depending on what features they're offering and what's running in the background, what the software is. But I have routinely gotten better than 18 hours of battery life for many, many years now to the point where I'm like they say 18. But that is such a conservative estimate. I think that's true now that I think about it. And I do think to your point, I think the fast charging thing is probably the bigger deal. Because if it was true that I could charge zero to 100 or close to it in the time that it takes me to like shower and get ready in the morning, charging stops being a problem. Like now I have infinite battery life, right?

Starting point is 00:56:36 Like I take it off when I take my clothes off and I put it on when I put my clothes on. And that is the end. We've done it. And you should. You should be airing out your wrists. I'm very, very passionate about airing out your wrist because, again, I'm the crazy wearable. lady. I was going to say, this feels like a you problem to some extent.

Starting point is 00:56:53 To some extent, but you really do need to air out your wrists because the skin gets weird if you don't. My Apple Watch, which is currently dead. I'm taking off right now just to air out my wrists while we're doing this. Thank you. Your skin will thank you for that. But to that point, you know, for them, this is 10 years of them never budging beyond the 18-hour estimate, even though I have routinely gotten more than 18 hours for several years, especially after they introduced the improved low battery power mode.

Starting point is 00:57:24 So for them to say it's 24, I'm sitting here just like, are we getting 24 or are we getting 36? Right. You know, of course it always depends on your usage. It depends on how much extra you can get out of a low power battery mode. But I'm saying, I think them moving from 18 to 24, they do not do that unless they are very confident and they are very conservative. So for them to say 24, to me, as having tested everything since the, I don't even remember,

Starting point is 00:58:00 but it's like a small number, like the Apple Watch series two, at least, having lived with every iteration of the Apple Watch since then, that is big to me. Particularly me, I was just like, 24 hours. Oh my God. They've moved the number up. Oh my God, that never happens. So, you know, I was sitting there just like, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. That's actually a big thing.

Starting point is 00:58:26 And it's the number one thing that readers are in my comments about just being like, bodily life is my number one thing. And it plays into sleep tracking because you cannot have 18 hours and sleep track effectively. And sleep tracking is something that people really want. You know, Apple has always been a little bit behind on sleep tracking compared to the market. because of the battery life issue. So for them to really do that and on top of that go, we have a sleep score for you now. That is sort of, I got to say that those are just like how they are pods and the heart rate sensor, you know, those things work synergistically. Having long battery life, having a sleep score, these are things that enable each other. Yeah. And you continue to convince me that sleep tracking is a huge thing. Because I think, and this, this, this. gets us to the ultra a little bit. Like one of the things that puts all of these devices that we're talking about here together is that Apple is really like pretty aggressively pivoting into being

Starting point is 00:59:31 a health tech company in a way that I am perpetually surprised by. Like all of the sort of everyday normal person features stay the same year to year and then they give you more health stuff. Like, that's what's happening on these devices. And it's fascinating. And I continue to think like, I think I believe Tim Cook when he says it is like a thing he cares about as a person. I have a lot of thoughts about what Tim Cook cares about as a person right now, but we'll come back to those another time. But I think it is fascinating that that is a thing that Apple has identified as like meaningful to its business also. And I think to your point, I do think sleep track and especially the sleep score thing strikes me as a huge opportunity there to like get right and do in a, like big mainstream way. Listen, I come from a family of doctors and one of the things that they

Starting point is 01:00:22 always told me is that the number one possession you have, the thing that will influence your life more is your health. If you have bad health. That's such a parent thing to say. I love this for you. But also, it's a parent thing to say, but this was mostly my grandpa who was like a big famous doctor in this one city in Korea. And he was just like, if you do not have your health, you do not have a good life. And that was very dramatic. That's like a very, you have to think about it in a very old dramatic Korean grandpa way where he's like, Victoria, if you do not have your health, you do not have life. So, but he's true, he's completely correct in the sense that this is the thing that got the Apple Watch to be a thing. Because, you know, if we go back in Apple Watch history, they thought

Starting point is 01:01:07 it was going to be fashion and LOL. I'm too poor to ever have an Irmez. Apple Watch, even though they're very pretty, they're very nice. And still exist, which is a thing I didn't realize until literally today when they said it was on stage. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it didn't really kick off until EKGs came out. And then everyone's like, oh, my God, this is going to save your grandma's life. And now what do they do every single year?

Starting point is 01:01:29 And I think I said it in the live blog. I was like, cue the annual, the Apple Watch will save your life real. And it's very compelling because you have real life people and they find different ones every year. It's not the same person every year. different people who are like this thing saved my life because it pointed out a thing. And, you know, I think this, we watch it and we go like, well, yeah, okay, you're giving me health anxiety. But at the same time, it's a very compelling marketing proposition. And the thing that I get asked a lot by my friends, family, people I know, is what do I buy my mom or my dad? They recently had a health crisis. And so what do I do? And, you know, what they are doing is they're basically positioning the SE as kind of like the core smartwatch experience. It's something that gives you a taste and it's very expansive. But we're going to get keep the health to the series.

Starting point is 01:02:23 So the series is now your overall health watch. And then, you know, the Ultra3 is for us lunatics out here doing fitness stuff, basically. So, you know, if you think about it from that lens, the updates make sense. I kind of wish they made it clearer in their messaging because you kind of have to just like sit there and turn it the meme of the lady doing the math floating around her and just going like what what is happening here with these updates. But I think that's the key differentiator going forward between the series and the SE is like how much do you care about your health? How how much do you like nobody wants to die, right? Like we all want health insurance because we want to live and we

Starting point is 01:03:06 want to live well and we want to live healthy. So I don't think Tim Cook is wrong even though you know, Swole Tim Cook, so he obviously cares about all of that. But I genuinely think that people will do anything to live a healthy life because it means they get to live longer. It means they get to spend more time with the people they love. So tapping into that and saying, this is an essential device for you to live a long, happy life. Kaching, ka-ching, baby.

Starting point is 01:03:33 That's monetization for you. It's true. It is tough to argue with the theory there. But I like that differentiation of like, there's the, there's. There's the smart watch, which is the SE3. There is the health watch, I guess, which is the series 11. And then there's the lunatic watch, which is the Ultra 3. And I mean lunatic is a compliment, to be clear.

Starting point is 01:03:51 All of you lunatics who are hearing this being like, I'm normal and I wear, like, please know that I hear you and I love you. Nothing about the Ultra 3 seemed super duper exciting to me. It's got like a little bigger screen. The OLED's a little better, little longer battery life. Like the things you would like hope would get a little better rev to rev, but nothing that feels like it's going to sort of meaningfully change your experience with this watch. I think that is 100% true for non- lunatics because, you know, you know, they say the largest display ever. Well, I held the Ultra 2 and the three side by side. And I think Vergecast listeners know, because I've been screaming this all summer, I have garbage eyeballs.

Starting point is 01:04:33 My eyes are not great. So take that with a grain of salt knowing that my eyeballs, not the best eyeballs, and on Earth, held them side by side and I went, I guess the bezel's a little thinner. I guess it's slightly. Sure. I mean, this is where we're at now. This is where we're at. But for the lunatics out there, the thing is SOS satellite communication. Sure. That's going to be the thing because if you're a through hiker, if you're someone who has a garment in reach, or you want to be able.

Starting point is 01:05:04 to, I don't know, you've fallen down a ravine and your phone went flying and you're just like, ah, crapamola, I don't want to die and I really save me someone. Oh, they have SOS, satellite SOS, and it includes texting, includes location sharing, and it also includes just sending messages in areas where you have absolutely no signal whatsoever. for me, my initial thing was like, well, they had that on the iPhone. What's the benefit of having that on a watch? And so then I was thinking of the scenario where I fell off a cliff and I'm like, oh, God, there goes my phone.

Starting point is 01:05:44 I guess it's still on me. Huzzah. Sure. But also, you know, one of the things I was thinking about was like, well, on the ultra, the battery life lasts a pretty good, dang long time. So you have options, I guess. But, you know, it is an important thing. It's the heart rate thing all over again, right?

Starting point is 01:06:03 Like, it's a case where there just is no downside to having more versions of the feature at your disposal. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of through hikers, like our very own good Mitchell Clark, may he hike in perpetuity. But when he went on his absolutely lunatic quest to go to the Pacific Crest Trail, I had dude I don't know how you did that love you Mitchell but couldn't be me that's lunatic stuff that really is lunatic it like this is who that appeals to right

Starting point is 01:06:35 because they those people have garment and reaches they have subscriptions for the garment and reach and that's basically there to go like oh I'm in Tyaskin Maryland where my my spouse's in-laws are from and there's only one tree where if you stand a certain way you get a bar of signal you know like for people who are in those areas who spend a lot of time in those areas who maybe don't want to have their phone on them or even their phone isn't really doing it for them.

Starting point is 01:07:01 You know, you just have another option. I think it's a good thing in terms of if you're paranoid about that or if you just want to check in on these hiking trips or whatnot. But the other thing is, you know, it's a watch. That people who love the ultras, love the ultras when we were in the arena, you know, when the ultra came. out, I heard people around me go, yes. And I was, what is this, what is this visceral love for the, it does have its people, for sure. Like, it has its people. And for those people, I think that's who the satellite SOS is for. And you don't pay a subscription for two years with that. And, you know, that's, you, I mean,

Starting point is 01:07:42 one should hope if one is buying a $800 watch for the satellite SOS and trying to get rid of some of the other equipment and maybe like streamlining it into like, minimal devices, one would hope that you don't have to pay an extra subscription for the SOS communication. I think Apple can spot you for that one. I just want to say, by the way, that ever since you said it's different people in every video when they talk about the people whose lives are saved, I can't stop thinking about if there's one person who's just like, you know, Richard just like keeps falling down mountains and just like sends Tim Cook an email every year and is like, buddy, you did it again. I'm still here. I got the SOS this time. We're cool. And he's like, my friends found me because of this new feature.

Starting point is 01:08:26 And he's just like, Tim Cook is just like, stop sending this guy Apple Watches. Like, he's out there. And if it is you who keeps trying to die but being saved by your Apple Watch, I would like to hear from you. I also would love, I would love to interview you. We should do this. We would love to do a special Tuesday episode.

Starting point is 01:08:42 A hundred percent. Dissect your life. V and I will come fall off cliffs with you anytime. I look forward to it. You can go fall off. I have no desire to fall off. I've got training to do. I had a Charlie horse.

Starting point is 01:08:54 the other day from rolling over in my bed, so I'm aging, and I can't take these risks of falling off cliffs. But I would love to interview you about falling off a cliff. There we go. I love this for us. All right, we've got to take a break, V. I'm sure got more things to write about watches. But we got more to talk about these things.

Starting point is 01:09:11 I only have two wrists, and there are three watches. Can you do one as like an ankle monitor situation at some point? Many people have suggested this to me, which I don't know how that makes me feel. I think you string them all together and wear them. like a choker around your neck. V. Thank you. Yeah, as always. We'll be right back.

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Starting point is 01:10:42 And Jake Castranakis, it's you. Hi, Jake. Hey, it's good to see you. They let you back in. They did. Miracle of miracles. It's possible this is the last Verge cast I will ever get to do, but they let me do one more.

Starting point is 01:10:53 I'm excited you're here. You had a new experience for you. You've been at the Verge. For 650 years, you joined in the Renaissance period, if I remember correctly. Technology was very different back then. But if I'm not mistaken, this is the first time you have been to Cupertino for an iPhone launch, right? This is my first time at Apple Park. Yes, certainly my first iPhone hardware event.

Starting point is 01:11:20 And it was a new experience for me. It's very different watching it remotely, seeing all the photos, reading the live blogs. actually being here, seeing the scenery, being in the space. It's Apple really, you know, you kind of look at it from afar and you go, oh, they really like put a lot of polish on this place. And then you get there and you're like, whew, that was a lot of work went into this thing. What stood out? Like it's been a long crazy day. What are some of the like wildest moments of the day for you?

Starting point is 01:11:52 Well, okay, if I can just talk about the space, because I think this is something that obviously most people don't see. They shoot their videos around campus and having no being on their campus for the first time. I really understand why. Like, it is a sculpted, carefully crafted park. And the park in the name, I think externally as an observer, has always felt, I don't know, a little pretentious. And now being there, I'm like, nope, there's like rolling hills. There's a ton of trees. There's grass.

Starting point is 01:12:23 Like, it really does feel like a park and there just happens to be a weird spaceship in the middle. So perhaps it is a little bit pretentious to build that for yourself, but it really is a very lovely remarkable space. And you understand why they're like, of course we're going to show this thing off. Like, of course we're going to dot ourselves around this campus for these videos. And, you know, the theater that they bring you into is just, it's gargantuan. It's like, I don't know, brutalist isn't quite right because it has obviously soft edges everywhere, but it's just, you know, towering walls, you know, these immense views of the sky. It's very striking. And I think a lot of the hyping up of this space that they did, you know, it doesn't necessarily come across in the

Starting point is 01:13:14 photos and videos. And then when you're there in the space, you understand why they put so much energy into telling people about this place. It really is very impressive. And, you know, the iPhones, that's what we're here for. But as somebody who hadn't seen the location before, really, really fascinating to get to go there. Yeah. It's one of the things I really like about going to WWDC every year is that it is full of people who have never been to Apple Park before. And I think, A, there is something about Apple as a company that, like, people are attached to in a way that is very unusual. But there is something about that place.

Starting point is 01:13:54 Like you and I have been to a lot of corporate offices. And most of them are corporate offices. And I think the only two places I've ever been that felt sort of meaningfully different were when I lived in Oakland, my landlord happened to be a Pixar animator. And so he just took my wife and I on a tour of the Pixar offices. And that was like, that's a place that is also sort of like famously special. And people do like super elaborate decorations of their offices so that they look like movie sets. that was very cool. And then for me, the first time I went down the stairs at the Steve Jobs Theater,

Starting point is 01:14:30 and you're up in this huge sort of open waiting room that's like all glass all the way around. And then you start to go down the stairs and the stairs are like basically carved out of marble as you go all the way. And it's just like there's something genuinely sort of special about it. And that is like it doesn't make me like the iPhones more, but it's like, God, they did a good job. I mean, there's something like religious isn't the right word, but when you're looking up at that big staircase from down below, it's just this thing that towers above you and you feel your scale within it. And I don't even mean to say that it gave me these feelings about Apple, but they clearly designed it to have an effect on you. And it's a remarkable piece of architecture when you're

Starting point is 01:15:17 standing inside of it. Yeah, like shouts to the architects is really what it is. They spent a lot of money and did a very good job. It also, from what I can tell, seems like an awful place to work because you're like, I have a meeting over there and it's a three-quarter of a mile walk. That's a different problem. There's lots of golf carts. I was scoping out whether they had Apple bikes. I think they do. They appear to be single speed. So there's a, tell me if I'm wrong, I might be mixing up single speed and fixie, but there's a chain, but it's one chain. I don't think there are gears. They're like this kind of soft gray, silver. They look, they look nice. They look nice. Gears are too much visible work. Do you know what I mean? There was no chance there

Starting point is 01:15:59 were going to be gears on those. No, never. Honestly, it's surprising they're not fixie bikes now that you mentioned. Honestly, I'm stunned these things aren't like there isn't like a hot market for these. Like if you're a true Apple fan, you've got a lifted Apple bike. When I was living in Silicon Valley, you used to see the Google bikes all over the place. People would steal them off of Google's campus and ride them to Calatrain or whatever. I don't think I've ever seen an Applebike in the wild. So if you've seen one, send us pictures.

Starting point is 01:16:28 Vergecast at theverge.com, I want to see all of your Applebike spottings. But I suspect there are large security guards who will do crimes to you if you do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've already talked about the phones. We've already talked about the AirPods. We already talk to the watches.

Starting point is 01:16:45 What I want to do with you is kind of cover off. all the other stuff because at an event like this, there's always a lot of other stuff. And the thing that jumped out to me the most, and I'm curious just to get your thoughts on this, this felt like a very accessory heavy iPhone event in a way that they typically aren't. They talked a bunch about a case. There was a lot of noise about a cross-body strap that everybody had a lot of feelings about. There was just a thing where we're going to launch a bunch of devices, but then we're going to do kind of a lifestyle brandy thing around them.

Starting point is 01:17:15 And I know you got to see some of the devices. I don't know how many of the accessories were out there, but what do you make of this push towards all of the stuff that you can sort of attach to your devices right next to the devices themselves? Okay, people are so hyped for this cross-body strap. And it is not for me. I am not the demographic. I don't know who the demographic is, but they're out there.

Starting point is 01:17:40 I've seen them. I just think the idea that you're going to buy a phone and just proudly display it like pretty loosely on your body is just lunacy. Like don't do that. I think it's bizarre. You're just like,

Starting point is 01:17:56 I don't want to know too much about this phone. It's just going to be floating around while I'm not using it. I might hear it vibrate. I might, I don't know. I'll find it eventually. It feels like you just like let it float off. It's not for me, but there's, people are very excited.

Starting point is 01:18:15 I don't know why. I think maybe it's because a new category for Apple, even though there's a trillion of these things in existence. I think all of their new cases have little lanyard straps now because they know that this is a thing. They know people want to wear them this way. Do they, though? Like, is there actual evidence that this is a real thing that exists?

Starting point is 01:18:34 I've seen them around. I've seen them around New York. I can't quite tell if it's a tourist thing or a Gen Z thing. thing. I don't want to date myself here, but I suspect there is a specific demographic, and it's just like it's not men in their 30s, which like, I don't know. I like, the pocket, the pocket still works for me. Yeah, sure. I'm doing fine. To your point about, like, this being an accessory's heavy event, you know, I do think it's interesting for us as phone reviews. viewers, and I think for folks who are listening who are probably big fans of technology,

Starting point is 01:19:15 the accessories always feel like a little bit of an afterthought. And I think it is probably worth realizing that these purchases go hand in hand for everybody. And if the accessories don't work, the device doesn't necessarily work for you. And I don't think, like, if you go out in public, you're rarely going to see an iPhone without a case on it. You don't see air tags without things wrapped around them, right? So Apple, I think, is necessarily seeing, okay, we need to pair these two things. And, yeah, they had a lot of different options here. Obviously, the big one was the return of the woven cases.

Starting point is 01:19:56 This comes two years after the disaster of fine woven. They look very similar. This new one's called tech woven. But they say it is much better. They did not have them out. in the demo area though. So I think that was intentional. They probably knew people

Starting point is 01:20:12 were going to immediately try to rub some keys against them to see what happens. Yeah, I'm imagining every single reporter like ran out, grabbed the sharpest thing that they had. I was like, I'm gonna go find that case.

Starting point is 01:20:23 I mean, as soon as I got my hands on an iPhone air, I like, I like squeezed a little. I'm like, I gotta see those bends. Like, I don't want to. Did it? There's handlers there. You know, you can't too much. But I was, you know, in my limited testing,

Starting point is 01:20:36 I did not, you know, No flex yet. We'll see what... That's good journalism. That's what you gotta be like, oh no, look, somebody's stealing a MacBook and then just like snap the phone and run away. I thought maybe not on my first visit to their headquarters. I didn't want to get escorted out by security, but, you know, I gave a little flex for journalism. I gave a little flex.

Starting point is 01:21:00 What did you think? We spent a bunch of time with Allison talking about the iPhone air, but you're the only other person I know who has touched the thing. what do you make? What do you make of it? It's striking. It's striking how thin it is. It really is. It's a lovely piece of hardware.

Starting point is 01:21:15 It is, I'm a small phone guy as much as is possible these days, which is usually like the 6.1 inch area. This is 6.3 inches. Definitely feels a little bit bigger. But I think because it's so thin, you can get away with it a little bit more. It's not necessarily as big on your person. They let me sneak into my pocket. It, like, fits in the pocket. It feels light.

Starting point is 01:21:40 It's nice. It's a striking piece of hardware. And I suspect that a lot of people, you see this in a showroom and you're like, hmm, that's pretty nice looking. Yeah. Can I tell you the funniest picture that I saw on our website today, which I believe is courtesy of you, is the very thin iPhone air with a big, fat old battery case just stuck to the back? Okay. I don't even necessarily like want to talk about it as it relates to iPhone Air.

Starting point is 01:22:08 People freaking love Apple's battery packs. The old one was enormous and chunky and the ugliest thing on Earth. People love that thing. You see them everywhere. It's the battery packs and the MagSafe wallets that just are like, you know, the whatever you can have two credit cards on it.

Starting point is 01:22:25 I see those everywhere. So it kind of surprises me that they're not bringing this back for the other phones. Again, people really like this thing. So it's just for the iPhone Air, which I have questions. I have questions if that means they have

Starting point is 01:22:41 battery life concerns about the phone itself or if they just know that people like these and maybe this will help drive iPhone Air sales because people will go, oh, I want to pair these two things. When you pair them together, it does sort of make you go, oh, why did I get the iPhone Air?

Starting point is 01:22:57 Because if you have battery problems with the iPhone Air, maybe you should have just gotten a bigger iPhone your iPhone in the first place, and now you have a bigger thing altogether. If you're buying your phone for the battery life, don't buy the iPhone Air. I will say the iPhone Air plus the battery pack. The battery pack is a lot, a lot thinner than the old one. Okay. It is thicker than the iPhone Air still. So ever so slightly thicker. So you're basically doubling the thickness of the iPhone Air, which I'll say

Starting point is 01:23:25 still doesn't feel terrible, right? That together feels like a reasonably sized phone, but It's bigger than other iPhones. But it's in two pieces and more expensive. Yeah, it's in two pieces. You can lose one of them. You've made a deconstructed iPhone 17 Pro with worse features. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:45 So, you know, if you're just going out to the store, you leave your battery pack behind. If you're going for your entire day, you know, you get a double iPhone. Sure. I love this for you. This is the optimism we come here for. This is what you're going to see everywhere starting 2026. I mean, you're probably right about that. When you were in the room, I assume it was like, so just for folks who haven't been there,

Starting point is 01:24:11 you leave the Steve Jobs Theater and right behind it is this like big, open, airy, hands-on area. And I have to assume that it was like 75% people clamoring to get to the iPhone error, 25% everything else. It was, it felt to me like an even split between the iPhone and. and the orange iPhone pro. Oh, fascinating. At the iPhone pro table, all the other colors, who cares? White?

Starting point is 01:24:42 What is this? Got to get that orange one. There are lines for the orange one. I had to elbow my way in to get the orange one. That's what people want to see, which I think it could just be, for this crowd, it is the most new-looking iPhone pro. But, yeah, it's an interesting one for Apple.

Starting point is 01:25:00 They don't usually go that bold, that bright. But yeah, you get out there and people are, it's packed. It's like a mad rush to get out there. And Apple has, I know, dozens and dozens of demo stations. It's sort of this weird freeform thing where they've got representatives standing by to demo the phones. Nobody really wants them to demo the phones. And so everybody's grabbing the phones. There's, you know, I think there's written journalists who are,

Starting point is 01:25:32 are trying to get photos really fast and impressions really fast so that they can go back and write stuff in their laptops. There's TikTokers who are recording video. There's people with full camera setups on tripods. So it's just a complete rush, a complete madhouse in there. And Apple is doing their best to keep order as everybody kind of scrambles and bounces between the new devices. Interesting that the orange one was such a big hit. And this, this is now three for three of Verge guests on this podcast who are into the orange iPhone. Which I would say was pretty controversial on the internet. I want to say I said it was very popular.

Starting point is 01:26:08 Oh, we're only two for three. Okay. It's, I'm not an orange guy in general. It's, there is like a little coppery something to, it's a little bold for me. I don't know if I would, if I would do the orange. It is a weird color. It's like right in time for Halloween or Pumpkin Spice season or something. I do appreciate the swing that it is, right?

Starting point is 01:26:31 Like, it is, I think Apple has been guiltier than almost anybody of doing incredibly boring colors where it's like, it's like, look, we made a, we made a blue iPad mini that is like essentially not blue. Like, this isn't even a color. What are we doing here? You can't tell. Yeah. No. And so to actually come out and be like, and there was actually a bunch of this. There's some of this with the tech woven cases.

Starting point is 01:26:56 There's some of this with the crossbody strap. There's some of this. There's just real, like, showy energy in some of these devices in a way that I actually really appreciate. Not all of it is for me, but, like, I appreciate the loudness of it. There's not a lot of that in tech right now. I think that's sort of the story here, too, right? Not everybody upgrades their phone on a regular cadence. They wait until it dies.

Starting point is 01:27:22 And this year, in a lot of ways, was designed to say, hey, in case you haven't been paying attention, a lot has changed, right? year over year, maybe not so much. If you're going back a few years, okay, now there's a brand new design on the pro. There's a whole new airline. Do you need two cameras? Who cares? No, one camera is actually four cameras.

Starting point is 01:27:43 Everything is new and different. There's this new accessory options, lots of new colors, everything has a new name. So yeah, I think you're right. Like, this is a year about being kind of flashy. And I think that's very much by design to show, like, hey, there's been a generational shift, even if it wasn't necessarily these phones,

Starting point is 01:28:01 and maybe you can make the argument that it's these phones, I think they're saying cumulatively, a lot has changed since the last time we changed up our designs. And that's very true, because it's been since, I think, 2019 when we got this basically same design on the iPhone 11 pro. Yeah, I and we have been hearing from a lot of folks,

Starting point is 01:28:19 I think for our audience in particular, at least, the 13 seems to be the sweet spot where there were a lot of 13, owners looking at this event being like, am I finally going to pull the trigger here? Which feels about right, right? Like it's now four generations ago, which is, I think,

Starting point is 01:28:38 a reasonable amount of time for a phone to last now. And if you're coming from the 13, like a lot of stuff is going to be a lot better. And also it's going to be orange, right? Yeah. And that counts for something. And I think you're like, and it's going to,

Starting point is 01:28:52 you're going to wear it, you know, with a weird sash across your body. Like, it's, your phone is going to feel like you bought a new thing. And I think, I think you're right. That's hard to come by in a lot of ways right now. And finding even simple ways to get that done is pretty interesting. Speaking of things that are going to change everybody's phones a lot, not a lot of software talk today. So we have all these other companies that are basically just like getting on stage and saying, here is our phone.

Starting point is 01:29:19 It does AI. That is its whole purpose. It's a brick for AI. I think Apple probably said AI a couple of times. but these are not AI devices. They didn't talk about Syria. They didn't talk about Apple intelligence. It was just a completely different way of talking about smartphones than we've seen recently.

Starting point is 01:29:37 Was that weird in the room? Yeah, that's so funny. Like the pixel 10, they held up the same phone, like the exact same thing and said, now with more AI. Yeah. The iPhones, yeah, it's like there's maybe some small software tricks to work with what they've already got where some tweaks were some of the tweaks they're making, right? You know, I think if you look at the watches, okay, there's some, where the AirPods, yeah, they have some software to work with. That's fair. Yeah, the live

Starting point is 01:30:05 translation and stuff. That counts as AI. That's sure. But I do think you're right. Like, there's not any exclusive, certainly AI features, which is what you would expect to be the big deal, at least flagship ones beyond that sort of, you know, live translate stuff. The one place I did clock some changes is maybe in the front facing camera, right? There's a whole bunch of software stuff going on to work with that new center stage camera where it keeps changing shape around you. It's fascinating. As far as I can tell, there just isn't an option to shoot with the entire sensor, right? You have to shoot with it in its wide or portrait setup or doing one of its wacky things. You can control it manually, but it really is designed

Starting point is 01:30:50 as a set it and forget it thing, which is interesting, right? That's, that's, working on how the hardware works. But other than that, I agree with you. I don't think it's a big software year. I think if you look at a lot of Apple's changes, not just to the iPhone line, but to the MacBooks, the watches in recent years, their big advantage is hardware, right?

Starting point is 01:31:12 It's silicon, it's sensors. They're so far ahead of the game in most places. They're able to, you know, they introduced a new chip for several of their networking things. They updated their modem six months after their last modem, right? No one else is doing this. I don't know, I don't know if they need their own modem. Maybe they do.

Starting point is 01:31:34 We'll find out. But that's where their focus really seems to be. It's getting these edges with hardware. And I suspect they'll have a software story again soon. But, you know, I think they were probably hoping it was going to be AI stuff. And we know how that went. Yeah. And then they thought it was going to be liquid glass.

Starting point is 01:31:54 and boy have I been using those betas for a while and boy do I still hate liquid glass. Is there? It sure is. Yeah. I think that's about the best you can say for it. And I think, again, like if I were to be the most glass half empty about all of this that I could be, you could paint a real story about a lot of what Apple is doing here

Starting point is 01:32:19 that is very like lipstick on a pig, right? that they're like, well, we don't have any actually new product ideas. We're just going to make it all look different. And that is very un-appily, right? I think the thing that Apple has done so successful for so long is that it has had better product vision than any of its competitors. And so everybody was like, oh, here's a box for playing music on, right? Like Apple was the one that understood what that is supposed to look like and how that's supposed to work. What's so fascinating about Apple right now is that what it is really good at,

Starting point is 01:32:53 is exactly what you're saying. It is able to just out-execute at like a very, like, infrastructural level all of its competitors. Like, its chips are just so much better than everybody else's that the rest of it almost doesn't matter. Its products are going to be better because it has that. And now it's, it's spreading that out into, like you're talking about some of the neural engine stuff

Starting point is 01:33:18 and some of the networking chips and they're just like really ready to take a knife to Qualcomm with all of the modem stuff as quickly as possible. And it is like, that is now Apple's edge. It's not like the people in the design studio with the blonde wood tables that everybody talked about for forever in these like hushed reverent tones. That's not their advantage anymore.

Starting point is 01:33:38 Their advantage is like the deeply unsexy computer stuff. And it's fascinating. I think you can look at this as a good thing or a bad thing, right? Does Apple have a grand vision? for how to change smartphones to make them work better for us, it does not seem that way, right? I don't think they have been building toward that over the past few years. To be fair, I don't know that anybody does,

Starting point is 01:34:04 but I certainly don't think there's any evidence that Apple does. No, no, I agree with you. It might not be there. This may just be what the product is. Are they able to iterate every year through hardware to make it a little bit better and a little bit better and a little bit better? And are they able to do that better than most other companies because of their iron grip on their hardware supply chain

Starting point is 01:34:26 and their deep engineering team, absolutely, right? And that's what we saw again, right? It's like little tweaks everywhere, right? We're going to upgrade some of the cameras. We're going to add a bunch of flashy, if confusing new camera features. I think I agree with all of that. And it actually leads me to the last question that I have for you, which is that you are kind of famously an Android guy

Starting point is 01:34:48 in a world full of iPhone people. That's actually statistically not true at all. But it often feels that way. At least among the verge, yeah. In the group chats. Is there anything here that tempts you back to the iPhone side of things? We've seen kind of the swings from these companies now. Are you tempted towards an iPhone?

Starting point is 01:35:09 I mean, the big thing for me is cameras, right? I'm going to go more or less where the best camera system is. And honestly, for the past few years, I feel like it's been a wash, right? Went to the pixels a while ago. And I think you could, I think by the time that you're pixel peeping to be like, well, white balance, sling, all right.

Starting point is 01:35:31 Yeah. Yeah, it's been a matter of taste as much as anything for a while now. Absolutely. Yeah. The cameras are getting better, right? The new telephoto, you know, we've only seen

Starting point is 01:35:41 demo shots. Of course, they look gorgeous. That's how it always is. Yeah. But I'm intrigued. They say the sensor's a lot bigger. They are doing a bunch of, you know, normal zooming enhancement instead of AI zoom enhancement. And hopefully it looks good

Starting point is 01:36:01 and is real. So, you know, I think some of the others are maybe not moving as fast in that department. The front facing camera thing is weird and trippy, but I'm interested. You know, it's a big new sensor. You know, it's a, the redesign is nice. It looks. nice. I don't think like that's necessarily the reason to buy it. But if you've got an old phone, you know, that's certainly a telling point that things have changed. I think for somebody on Android or if somebody who's been on Pixel, you know, it's these iterative upgrades, right? It's the same story. Do I love the camera control button? Do I love how it works with the new camera features? Maybe. Maybe we'll see. It doesn't sound like you're tempted towards an iPhone.

Starting point is 01:36:50 That was like a very nice way of saying, no, I'm good. I, listen, I don't think we don't have time for this, but I, I've got like an hour-long thing about notification management on iPhones. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. It's not, it's not good. Jake, if it wasn't 11.03 p.m. where I am, I would sign up for that right now. But luckily, you and I have a lot of podcast to hosts for this fall. So we're going to have some time to do this. All right, for now, you need to go. I need to go. I'm very glad you got to go to Cupertino. This is like, this is a fun thing.

Starting point is 01:37:23 You and I have been on opposite sides of this where you've been like telling me what to do as I run around Cupertino a million times. So it was, it was fun to get to watch you do the chaos all on your own. Oh, yeah. I have so much more sympathy for you now. I'm, I'm sorry for everything I've ever said. It's a weird day. And you're always like, you're always like, what are they doing? And the answer is they're just sort of wandering aimlessly around Apple Park trying to figure out where they are.

Starting point is 01:37:46 Yeah, exactly. It's a life. All right. Jake. Thank you as always. Good to see you. Bye. Later. All right, that's it for the show today. Thank you to everybody who came on with me.

Starting point is 01:37:55 It's pure chaos being in Gubertino for one of these events. So please know it's a heroic effort to be on the Vergecast on Apple Day. And as always, thank you for listening and watching. We're going to talk a lot more about Apple in the next couple of weeks. We're going to test these devices. We're going to see what happens when people start to buy these devices. Our new and old devices are going to get a bunch of new software. Liquid glass, I think, is going to like kind of blow some people's minds,

Starting point is 01:38:17 both in good and bad ways. So we have a lot of Apple stuff to talk about. And if you have questions or thoughts or spectacular ways you want us to destroy iPhone airs, please tell us. Call the hotline 866, Vorge11. Send us an email, Vergecast at theverge.com. Send us everything. We're going to do a lot of Apple stuff for the next couple of weeks. So buckle up.

Starting point is 01:38:36 It's going to be fun. Until then, we should get out of here. This show is produced by Travis Larcuck, Eric Gomez, and Brandon Kiefer. Vergecast is a VIRG production and part of the Vox Media podcast network. Like I said, we'll be back on Friday. Jake and I are going to talk more Apple. I have a bunch of just thoroughly hot takes that I have been desperate to say out loud. So I'm going to potentially get myself canceled.

Starting point is 01:38:57 Live on the Vergecast on Friday. We'll see you then. Rock and on.

The Vergecast - The orange iPhone stole the show

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