The Vergecast - Tinder DJs

Episode Date: November 20, 2015

Today on The Vergecast, Nilay and Dieter are joined in studio by Lauren Goode to continue their discussion about the iPad Pro, as well as how it stacks up against the Surface Pro 4. In addition, the panel will discuss the end of Rdio, as well as the best set-top box on the market. Nicola Fumo once again occupies the hypeseat. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to what for you is almost certainly November 20th. It could be a day after that, but it is almost certainly not November 19th, which is the day on which I'm speaking. Today is a special day because we are streaming this motherfucker live on YouTube. And I don't know what that means for you, but for me it means no one's going to complain to me about the previous streaming. Hey, Tom, the previous streaming service that we were using. But I'm here. This is the Vergecast. I'm Eli Patel. I'm joined, as always, by Deer Bone. Hello.

Lauren Good is in from San Francisco Which they can't you have to It's an audio show You're like 400 feet away from the microphone And you're miming at a camera This is the worst radio in history You go Lauren

Let's get this closer to you There you There you go Come on There's like a There's like a two minute delay Which is not bad Maybe it's a little bit less

Well, in about two minutes, Lauren's going to suck it being on the radio. And Nicola's here. Nicola, the style editor of rack.com. I am here. What up? Nicola, I have to say, there's a few things I want to say to you, Nicola. One, I think it's the first time in history that we've actually had, like, the same cast. I know, yeah.

I'm feeling good about that. I feel like this is a core group that I'm on into. Nicola, I have two things that I'm wondering about. Let's hear them. One, you are surrounded by screens. right now. I have so many screens. So Nicola's got her air. She's got the iPad Pro Pro 4. She's got a Surface Pro 4 and she's got her 6 plus. And the pencil and the pencil and the proper noun pencil. How are you feeling? Are you feeling overwhelmed? Are you feeling in the mix? Um, I feel more

part of the verge than ever. I have this like joke about my transformation. Like the more time I spend with you people and the more I start like you people thinking about these things. Like someone sent me a baby picture and I immediately thought that's an interesting aspect ratio I wonder what phone it was taken with and I was like oh no it's happening it's happening it happens so fast does that mean that the reverse is going to happen we're suddenly going to be more stylish and like better draft yeah it's just going to be like a slow like just a it was going to take over you slowly yeah how do these multiple screens factor into project figurehead come on oh I think being surrounded by you and the microphone. There you go.

Friends. Hi, friend. All the studio dudes behind. You are just glaring. Like, glaring at this happening. And it's so funny. It's not going well, guys. They also have mystery gadgets.

Tom has, like, an orb. He's, like, carrying an orb. Okay. I want them to, it's first range. I think it's a 360 camera. It's an orb. Oh, yeah, they're doing a bunch of 360 camera stuff. Oh, all right.

Because the big plan is it's CES, do all kinds of U.R stuff at CES. Right, right. We'll see. We have to make it work. So, Nicola, the other thing I want to ask you about, and for the live listener, you may have noticed that previous this, we're all tweeting each other about gift guides.

What's going on with the rack tech? Listen, dude. The Gloria, like, turned around upstairs and I was like, wooden speakers. Under a hundred's hard, okay? You selected just the band of an Apple Watch. Do you know how rough that is to just give somebody a band? Also, that wasn't my select.

It's a team effort. It's a team effort. Don't throw them under the bus, girl. Come on. I didn't even click this link. Yeah. Look, the customized section is tight. There's some stuff in there that's good,

but the one, the lone, like, rose gold sport band for the Apple Watch. Listen, man. With a drawn little, like, paper on watch. I understand that. Yeah, yeah. That is understanding, because you can't show people of the watch. Yeah, right. I thought that was pretty cute detail.

I didn't style that. I thought it was cute. Wait, so this is the thing, like, Rackthedder is often, photo shoots right this like a thing that happens well because we're good at that stuff yeah yeah it's wild yeah that's really funny actually when I was talking to our team about the verge gift guide and the rack gift guide like the product team they were let people get me like oh who shot yours who styled yours who's your prop styles was like oh we did it and we asked people who work here to use cameras

to take pictures because we know what we want yeah it's fashion stuff mm-hmm all right well I just want to give you some shit about that there was there was I just got a brutal eye roll from Nicola. Literally, your head went backwards with the force of your eye roll. We're all making sacrifices and working in groups. Whoa. Something just happened. It just appeared.

Something just appeared on the table. There's a, I think we're being streamed. I'm pretty sure that was from the racked gift guide. That thing is pretty cool. What is that thing? It's an orb. All right.

It's a dark thing. Well, there's this theory about what VR, what are, what is the version of do? It's a 360 camera. Right. What is the version going to do with VR stuff? and one of the ideas has been to the Verge Gaston VR. So we'll see if this goes off. Okay.

We'll see. Yeah. We'll see. All right. So I have a question for pretty much for Lauren. Oh boy. Here we go. Oh boy.

What is? This doesn't mean I have to talk now. What is it? It seems like a product I should know about. But in, I've been involved. I've been involved. A massive conspiracy to avoid this low selling product. Um, well, the Navidia shield 4K.

Navidia, NVIDIA, NVIDIA, NVIDIA. We're just off to a stumbling beginning here. NVIDIA. Navidia. Yeah, it's Envidia, but I like Navidia way better. You just said NVIDia. You're saying NVIDIA. He's saying NVIDIA.

It's NVIDIA. But NVIDIA sounds more like a lotion company. Yeah. Also on the Ract holiday gift. Untrue. It would be except it's $103. But it's a first support. I'm not even going to do.

So the reason I bring this up is Lauren. Lauren has been like a publishing monster on the verge.com this week. Look out, Neely. I publish nothing. What do you mean? My job is to come down and tell mediocre jokes in this show. Hooray! But no, you've been all over the face.

You published the best top box. This is my next. Yes. You did some hardcore reporting. We did our gift guide. Full of expensive technology items, including actual smart watches and not just the bands. So rude. Do we have, I don't even know if we have smart watches on there?

Oh, yeah, we do. Okay, several checking. I might buy a pebble time round. Wow. I've been thinking about it. I looked at that one yesterday on your gift guide, actually. Doing some competitive research. I looked at the piece of paper.

It's so mean. Okay. So our gift guide, you did a thing about the iPad Pro, which we should get into. One of the other reasons. But the best set top box, I don't think people know this about, or this is my next, is you actually reviewed the Nvidia Shield to give it a score. You got it and set it up and played with it and did all the stuff. You just didn't write the whole thing.

Everything that we consider for that is something that we have used or reviewed or, like, we're giving it very careful consideration. So even though we had not yet reviewed the NVIDIA 4K shield when it came out earlier this year, sometime in the spring. So we didn't review that new one. We had reviewed the previous version of the box. But I did use it. I mean, I have it at home still and it's set up at home and I've been using it and everything. But the thing is, like, so initially there are a couple things to think about when you think about the shield.

And a lot, it's like all of a sudden there's this like rabid fan group for the shield. If you look at our YouTube comments, they're like, we love it. We think this is the best. And they, like, can't believe that we would consider Apple TV better than it. But it is like two parts gaming console and one part set top box. So initially, this is my next set top box is about streaming your video streaming apps and maybe some casual games and maybe some other types of apps. So that's the first part.

So it's like primarily a gaming thing. And the second part, too, is that at this point in the game, we're not giving a ton of weight to 4K. So Roku also supports 4K at 60 frames per second. Amazon Fire TV second generation supports 4K at 30 frames per second, right? A lot of these support like different codex and they're sort of like future proofing in different ways. But there are a lot of people right now that don't have 4K TVs and there isn't a lot of 4K content out there. So for us, like we weren't giving as much weight to the 4K aspect of the shield. And I think that's something like maybe some people would argue like, well, it has 4K and Apple TV does not.

But it's basically just Android TV, right? It's based on the Android TV. It doesn't have any functionality aside from the gaming and the like. Oh, no, you can. I mean, like, you know, Android TV does support a lot of the traditional video streaming apps. So you can get a selection of video streaming apps, but this is primarily for somebody who's looking for gaming.

Right. Like it's like, oh, I have this like $200. It even, and it's really funny too because until like last week, when you bought the shield, it only came with a gaming remote, just like, you know, the Xbox one or the Sony PS4. And then you had to, if you wanted a more traditional Bluetooth. remote to use, you had to buy that separately, and it was like $50 extra. And then last week, the company decided they were going to start bundling that in. But like if that is not enough

of an indication that this thing is more about, it's a little bit more about gaming than video streaming, then that's, you know, that's what it's about. We also consider the traditional gaming consoles. We, you know, considered Microsoft Xbox 1 and we considered Sony PS4 and said, if you happen to already have these and have spent $349 or more on these, you might not need an extra set-top box. But that's like not what we were really looking at. There is no part of me that wishes to boot up my Xbox 1 instead of using my Apple TV. Really?

Watch a video. The new Xbox 1 interface, everybody loves it, I don't. I haven't even, I haven't really gotten a chance to play with it. But the Xbox 1 is to like play video games. That's what I have it for. Yeah.

I mean, I think that's why Microsoft blew it, right? Like, that's why the PS4, the PS4 is like for video games. Microsoft was like, a PC. Right. Damn it. Yeah. I don't know.

Have you played with it? You haven't played with it a lot? The Navidia Shield? No, the Windows 10, the new dashboard. On the Xbox? I mean, I use it. I've played with it. I've poked around on it.

I just, I don't know. Part of me, I'm old. I hate change. Well, one thing that happens, too, is like, it doesn't, when you have apps in the tile interface that you're using, you've downloaded it and you use, they move. Yeah. So, like, if you, you last watch Netflix on it, which is the last thing I've watched on the Xbox one, like, it's there.

It's prioritized, which, oh, sorry. Hi, hi, friend. It's prioritized. It's, it's like, there and, you know, right in front of you, but it's not in the place where you thought it would be. Like, I don't know. I mean, I'll get used to it, but it, I don't know. It still thinks that it does more than what I actually want it to do, which is like, I want to turn it on.

I want to see a grid of apps. As much as I complain about Apple TV's interface, like, it does the job. Yeah. You still sick and strong through Roku 3 or whatever, Roku 2? I mean, I'm not going to buy a new thing. I have a thing. Right. This is a real problem.

It's truly the problem with these things. Do you care about 4K? I don't know what that means in this context. Really? Yeah. We haven't gone deep down that rabbit hole with you? No idea what that means. 4K is the next.

I had to ask today what a set-up box. Set-top. Set-top. Which is a bad name. Admittedly, that is a terrible name. What else do we call it? Because I saw it at the Vergecast. I was like, I don't even know what this is.

Because you can't put it on top. It's actually a miserable name. Yeah. But OTT box, way worse. Over the top. Yeah, over the top. Yeah. They're all, there's all.

But over the top has more to do with the delivery mechanism of the content or set top, right? You set it on top? I don't know. You can't put anything on top of a modern TV. Because cable boxes are also set top, aren't they? They're not on top of any sets. This whole situation is like a mess.

We need the new industry standards. If you were like, I'm going to make something that bounces on top of my flat panel TV. What if we just called it a TV box? What if going forward we just, we just determine? New TV. You need a name for the physical object. The box. Which called the verge box.

Going forward, it's the Apple Verge box. It's the Roku Verge box. Everything's on the verge. Last year at CES, Jim Begoth, the CEO of Vox Media came into our, we have a trailer. And he's like, what do you've seen this good? I'm like, man, let's TV stuff swing up. Actually, what we should do, Jim, is like, we should go out into the hall and find a Chinese company that's making a set-top box and like have them, OEM, a Vox box just plays our videos.

Vox box. Box box. He was like, he looked at me with such a withering stare and he was like, no. That was the end of the conversation. She was like, no, no, we're not doing that. And I was like, but she's just like, walked away. Boxbox. What if we had our own OTT set top box?

What if people thought it was Foxbox? That would be a very different thing. It would be a tremendously different thing. Is that a word that rhymes with media? Because it would technically be a mock, a Vox Media box. Well, it's been good having you, Lauren. It's been great, great radio with Lauren good. Eat your softly around.

I can't. I mean, it is, whatever. 4K is the next resolution standard for television. Wow. I hate it. I hate how crisp TVs are. Yeah? Yeah.

Why? They're gross to look at. You look at them and you see people in better clarity than you see them with your own eyes. And I think it's weird and wrong. Do you, when was the last time I got your eyes checked? No, dude. Fair question. No, like, you know how sports looks?

Yeah. And now regular other TV shows look like that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. On certain TVs, I hate that. Oh, you hate the motion smoothing. It's gross. No, it's not the motion smoothing.

It's just the HD. It's almost like that illusion of depth, even though it's not really. definition than my actual eyes would see the same thing. It's a soap opera effect. That's motion smoothing. The soap opera effect is motion smooth. I was going to say soap opera is more like diffusing. Everything looks kind of soft.

No, no, no, no, no. So the motion smoothing is the one where they, they, like, 240. Everything looks so clear and real. You can see the set and that it is a set. And then you see that the thing is cheap. We're describing the same thing. But it's not motion smoothing. It's just because it's an HD.

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Yeah. No. Yeah. Absolutely not. Okay.

Absolutely not. Whatever you say? Uh. Come on, guys. So there's HD and traditional HD runs at like 1080I 30, right? 30 frames for second. And then the refresh rates of modern televisions are cranked way higher than that. They're 120 or 240.

And they do the motion smoothing and it interpolate frames to get to 240 and it looks like a fucking soap opera. that's motion smoothing. So sports has a lot of sports networks run it at 60 to catch more action and so sports is crisper and clearer and then if you have a TV

that's doing that same effect you take right you think like Breaking Bad and you run it on the TV that does motion smoothing and it will look like VHS it looked like video instead of the 24 frames per second

in which it was shot. We're all describing the same thing which is called motion smoothing and it looks like garbage and I literally turn it off on every single TV that I find because I hate it. It's just like walk up to go to Best Buy every day and just click through all of them. And I was at, it's actually super funny. I was at Joanna Stern's parents' house like two years ago and I like saw it on their TV

and I like turned it off and like literally Joanna's dad is like her TV's never been the same since I betel boy was here. That's like the legacy you could hope for, right? Yeah, yeah pretty much. She fixed their TV. No, so I broke his TV. Like, I don't know what you're still doing. That seems like it.

But anyway, but so that's the, that Christmas that you're talking about has nothing to do with the resolution. Oh, okay. That's like, that's literally the TV's, like, just making up information to make it look smoother. Processing things. But, like, the 4K is literally take the image size of an HD screen and it's four of them in a grid. It's actually not a multiple, an exact multiple of four. Right. It's below, but it's like, it's like, it's like,

called that because it's just easier to say that than actually spout out like the 38, 20. But it's like it's more pixels. Yeah. So what's the benefit then? Things look for. Yeah. Yeah. We also don't really experience the full benefit of it unless you're sitting a certain distance from those.

But let's say you were at home. All right. Go ahead. I was going to get into contrast. Oh, I was going to say let's say you were at home just rip in on your vape and you're like, you know what I really want to watch right now? It's like, empire. No, not empire.

like a beautiful forest scene or like a slow motion shot of a cityscape. A polar bear in snow. I don't know, but that's the only thing they show on 4K TV. The grass blown. Those are the only demos of 4K TVs. Amazon stuff would be a shot with 4K. What was that? Serious.

And a bunch of Netflix shit. That is true. That is true. But like that's basically the content. The content is like a few Amazon shows, a few Netflix shows, and then looping pictures of the rainforest. That's, and that's why we don't take 4K seriously when we do this at Tubbox reviews, because it's not there yet.

Right. And who needs that stuff? Huh? Who needs looping? Nerds like us. Dude, people were taking huge rips off their backs. I just want to watch Empire. I just want to watch Empire.

Should I start watching Empire? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah. Okay. Actually, I have a problem because, no, I'm not going to go into it later. We'll get to it in a few weeks. A few weeks.

You're just trying to walk back his motion-s-smoving thing on Twitter. No, I'm not. I was trolling him. I was trolling you. Boo. Whatever. Who to you, sir? All right, so we did the set top box thing.

I just want to make fun of the individual shit people. I want to talk about R2o, like a lot. RIP. I want to talk about R2. Pour one out. Yeah, I got to do the iPad. But first, money sound. In the actual show, there's a money.

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Squarespace, build it beautiful. Got through it, guys. Someone tweeted, I don't like reckless being rude to Nicolifomo. Oh, it's true. There you go. I don't like it either. Huh? The people have spoken.

Yeah. Someone just tweeted at me. It stands for me. Someone just tweeted at me, everyone drinking beer at work, frowned face. Why is that front face? That is to be celebrated and enjoyed. That's why we have this career. It's a long tradition in the media industry.

Yeah. Drinking beer in the afternoon. This is all part of figureheading. You were on the mic when you said that. I know. All right. All right. Can we talk about RDA?

Go through it. How many news? The news is that they are, they buried the news a little bit, but they are filing for bankruptcy and they're selling off the parts. and a bunch of their employees to Pandora for 75 million, I think, is a number, which is like less than they had actually taken in to fund themselves. And it's really sad.

That's basically the whole story. Like a bunch of like a bunch of people in my circle, me, we all loved Ardeo like five years ago. Did you already use Ardeo? No. Ardeo is the best. It came to the U.S. well before a year. Spotify. Yeah.

I reviewed RDO in its early stages for the Wall Street Journal when it was on Blackberry. It did a better job. Yeah. I actually have a picture of me holding up my Blackberry with RDO. So the funny thing is I was a back then, I was a slacker bro, not an R2 guy. And then I switched from Slacker to Rdeo. iTunes forever. Yeah.

Well. But it was really good because it had really nice design. It had like at the time and I think even still like a better sense of like what your friends were listening to. than anything else. And I just found more music on it and enjoyed using it more than any other service. But for many, many reasons,

all of which Casey detailed in his lovely article, they just couldn't hack it. They didn't know how to market themselves. They just, like, all of their thunder went up at a puff of smoke as soon as Spotify started to hint

that they might come to the U.S. Even when they were a full streaming service in the U.S., everybody was like, yeah, but Spotify's coming. It's like, who cares? Spotify had the free. And Spotify had free.

Right. So you could like listen to some ads and then it was like iTunes but free, which is a killer line for Spotify. But RDAA was such a better product. I think that's the thing that's really sad. It's like spot. I mean,

everybody knows why I feel about Spotify in the show. Like Spotify, I use it. I think it's better than every other one except for RDio. Or Google Play Music. Just kidding. That's a little other discussion.

Is it? Don't we know the answer? You know you could listen to Google Play Music on the NVIDI? Shield. It's just worked done. 4K.

I don't have any. In 4K. In 4K. No, YouTube music. Great product. Yeah. Like a really cool product.

Like really interesting and like clever and like understands like the media stream. You might want to download it. You can click it into the audio only like clever product. Google Play Music the app. Less clever. Yeah. Right. Spotify marginally cleverer.

And then Rario is like a brilliant. piece of design, but RDO was just like a wasteland. And like, it's all because Spotify, I was like, what if we raise a bunch of money and just relentlessly burn it for customer acquisition? Yeah. Did RDio have all of the same deals in place with the labels that all the

other services do? They don't get the exclusives like Spotify does. Yeah, it was close. I mean, I bounced around between both of them for a while before I finally walked away from RDO because it was so clear that it wasn't going to be able to keep up. It seems like even the, you know, the

The cachet wasn't there either. You never heard Taylor Swift saying, like, I'm pulling my stuff from Spotify and Ardeo. Right. Yeah. Or Adele or whoever it might be. No, Spotify is like the big bad, right? It's the villain.

What's funny to me, though, is like the back end, the back end of all these services, just a bunch of deals and like, I don't know, music streams. Like, shouldn't the products, the apps be kind of interchangeable? Yeah. Like, shouldn't Spotify let you build a front end app to Spotify that's way better than, like,

That's the thing that I don't get, like, whenever I use my Alexa or my echo, and I'm like, Alexa, play some music. It doesn't matter to me what service the music is coming from. I just like, I just want to hear the song. And it's on a phone, it's like everything about this experience is like layered into like, I'm opening the Spotify app and using their interface. And it matters what deal they got and what Discover Weekly is out. And it's like, why? Like, why can I disintermediate the fact that I'm subscribing to music from the app that I'm using? I mean, would you subscribe to the core service that provides it

and then you'd also subscribe or pay for the app that you use to use it? I would do that. I would subscribe. I would pay for the Spotify library and then like pay $10 to use the RDO app. Like I would buy an app. Like a third-party app that acts as a skin to the library that presents it in a way you find pleasing. Yeah.

I mean, name a single other industry that has a similar business model. The internet. Well, in some ways, I don't know. What like other media thing? The set top box, I don't mean, not to bring it all back to set top boxes. But in a way, you're all starting to get there. A lot of them have the same, they offer the same apps or channels, whatever they decide to call them, right?

They have HBO now and HBO Go and they have, I mean, sometimes they're prioritizing their own services like Amazon does with Prime Video. But like once you get to the point where all these companies are saying, we have 3,000 apps, then really it comes down to how they're presenting them and how accessible they make them. to users. Right. It's different.

They're different businesses. Yeah. But like I'm just paying to license the music in the end. Right. Like, why does it matter? Like, let me use whatever good app I want to use. I don't know. That's like a beautiful dream, but I like, I do not.

How do we get there from here? I don't know. Yeah. Like we watch RDO die. It's just like Spotify to me is like just on this course to be the winner. Like I don't know anybody use Apple music. Does anybody? I unsubscribed.

Yeah. I find, and it's weird to me, but yeah, a lot of my friends use it. Really? My friends, I'm trying to think of how to explain this, like, certain sect. It's like my friends who, like, maybe, like, are graphic designers or, like, they're, like, sort of in touch with these, with, you know what I mean? They're in the Apple ecosystem. What you guys are not seeing is that Nicola is making hand motions that are very much like she's, like playing a harp. Yeah.

I'm Italian. I have to talk with my hands. I hate this podcast. No, it's like she's conjuring a graphic designer, like, out of a candle. No, I'm trying to, like, I'm trying to feel it. I'm trying to feel what I'm trying to describe. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but are you saying that because you know lots of designers and people like, they're using Apple products?

Yeah, okay. My friends who are, my friends who are, my friends who know to update their phone and are excited about it, but don't work in, like, tech proper, they all use Apple music, and that's weird to me. But, like, my friends who are just like, whatever, like, existing in the world, like, a regular, totally regular, not, like, don't care person, like, they use Spotify. Right. That's interesting.

Yeah. And they're always, and they always are just like, it's just the Apple Music is so much better to look at. Really? Yeah, but clicking it is hard and horrible. It is. It's better to look at it? Yeah.

That's what they all say. That's weird. It's super weird. They should have used Rario. These are the people RDAO was after. Like, every designer I knew was into Rario. Because it was like a beautiful app. So what happens now that RDO's assets are at Pandora?

Like, what is Pandora going to do with these? They're going to launch. They're finally going to do the thing they swore they never needed to do because they were too cool because they were radio. They weren't a music streaming service. Ad-supported radio. And they are now going to a year from now launch non-demand music streaming service using the stuff they got from Ardeo. That's cool. Maybe they'll be good.

Maybe. If you put Apple Music on your Android phone yet? I have not. So you want to talk about it? about ecosystem lock-in. Like, I'm the guy that's using Google Play Music because it gives me YouTube Red. Oh, yeah. No, I still subscribe to YouTube Google Play Music, but I pay for everything like an idiot.

I've been trying to stop. Yeah, but I feel like that's an overt part of Google's software offerings. Like, that's part of the, you know, the launch of this new Google Music and YouTube Red. Like, you pay for one and you get the other. It's not like they're like sneakily locking you in in the background and saying, well, now you're going to be using this service and this service, too. Right. Well, it's not sneaky, but it's like part of their marketing for it.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I've been meaning to switch back to Spotify. Although I will say, audio going down, Apple music launching, the ability to move your libraries and your playlists from one music service to another is an unmitigated nightmare. It is like, I straight up, I'm like, I need to learn JavaScript. and like I need to go into the console on Chrome and they're like hacking into like the web clients

for these apps to like like run through this program that you run in JavaScript to like manually create the thing that it's ripped from the other thing. It's insane. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like you're just paying for a license to music. Yeah.

Like you should be able to export a CSV file of a list of things that you like. Like what I don't get, I don't know. The lock in there is like very annoying. The thing that I was thinking is there should be a data, a pub, what was the CDDB database? Remember the CDB? That, when I want to embed a playlist of music, I should just be able to like have an app that like read CDB. It just gives me a list of codes. And then the web browser will know that, oh, yeah, you're subscribed to these services and it'll just display that the playlist for those services.

Or if I want to buy those songs or whatever, I could just like click. that special link that the whole world understands is like this code for that song and like all the music services would understand it. If only the web wasn't dying. Right? I mean that's like, that's it.

Right. There's somebody listening to this you would otherwise build it, but they're busy like building a native app for Windows phone. Right. But there's true. iOS.

Yeah. It's almost certainly for iOS. Yeah. I mean, let's be honest. Yeah. Like I mean, just if anybody at Microsoft is listening, uh,

calendar is Windows 10. Still broken. It's still ruining my life every day. I, um, I, I, I, I shop for a surface yesterday. The surface surface. As before? I've been, I was surface surface surface and a surface pro four. And, what?

Wait, wait, wait. I didn't buy one. The baby surface. Yeah. The baby surface. We're going to get into this. What are you calling the baby surface book? But the calendar thing is going to do.

The surface. Oh, I thought you said the surface. The surface. The surface. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's an iPad.

Ultimately, I'm walking away because the thing ruins our calendars. I don't think I'm going to be able to do it. Well, and I, I think I, my experience with the Surface 3, not the Service Pro, is that it was incredibly slow. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm waiting for the latest updates that just came out to hit it. And we'll see how that goes. Can I say a thing about the CDB?

You could get a yoga. It's up to 900. This is the Yoga 900. I just, I don't want to spend more than like $800. Yeah, this sounds like $13.99. I'm like, I've always been into that. I want a tablet that can do things. I mean, I like the, I like the foldy.

You like the bendiness? Yeah. I'm into it. CDDB. Oh, so. I got to say one thing, though. We all got to say a thing. I feel very badly for Fumo right now because we are so in the weeds with this nerd talk.

It's fine. I'm just here for decoration. Oh, come on. I got a, I got a whole lightning round of Fumo bait coming. Don't even worry about it. I'm so happy to just. My Google search history today, by the way, not pretty. Oh, I know what he's talking about.

Weird. Don't worry. Sammy's just sit there and not say. for like hours at the time. You're cool. No, a thing I was going to say that you brought up the CDDB and I realized

this thing. I don't can't. It was just compacted this database. So you would put a CD in your computer in the ancient times and like iTunes would go hit the CDDB and download all of the track listing and all of the album art

and all of the liner notes. Well, Album art came from another database, but regardless. Whatever. But I realized what we were such. But I realized I was at my buddy's house and he bought the new Apple TV and he's like, this thing is the best. I threw away my cable box.

I threw away everything. A new one. I'm just using Apple TV. He threw away as regular remotes because it's all CEC. So he's like, because he only has the one thing. And I was like, dude, you're crazy. And he was like, no, no, come over and look at it. And I went over and I realized my buddy is like the world's most insane pirate.

Uh-huh. And so he's got BitTorrent and Usenet and all these things just like running 24. seven on a Mac minnie. It pulls down everything. Like literally like every TV show, every movie. It's just yanking it all off the internet. You are blowing up your friend spot right now. Oh, he's fine.

So bad. He didn't name the friend. His name is Tom. And then Plex finds that stuff. Yep. And goes out to all the databases, downloads all of the art,

downloads related content, finds subtitles, does multiple audio, like crazy Plex stuff. Plex is available in other boxes too, though. But like he's like, In the Plex interface, after all of this insane piracy, has, like, content recommendations. It's like, you like this show.

You might like these other shows. It's all, like, stolen. He's like, this is the best. Like, I couldn't buy this experience for any amount of money. And, like, we're just sitting there, like, watching all. And I was like, the Apple TV is sick if you pirate everything. It's like the killer app for the Apple TV is Plex because you can just pirate like a maniac. act.

That's, and that's what I think of the CD. Because my friends are like, rip CDs for me. Yeah. And then you can put him in iTunes, it would just like figure it all out. You'd like, throw this away. Yep. It's great. Did you know that with just a few lines, by the way, this ad?

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Rhymes with chlamydia. Look, there's only two more ads left. We can we get through this. All right, so let's do, I want to do 10 or so on the, on Nicholas' collection of screens, and then we got a lightning round, and then another,

another poor advertiser will be subjected to this and then we'll be done. Okay, let's talk about a collection of screens. Please. So, again, so Nicola, right now is typing on a Macquicair. She's located as far as physically possible from the Surface Pro 4. There's some subliminal stuff going on here. She's got iPad. I have the pencil close to me.

She's holding the pencil, but the iPad Pro is also far away from her. And she's been checking your phone intermittently. What's going on in your life right now? All right, so, okay. And she's literally banging the pencil. I love the pencil. I, like, put it in my hand and I was just like, oh, this feels nice. It's, like, weighted, so it just sits there really well.

Like, if you've ever used, like, a nice pen, I'm for the pencil. But it costs, like, a dumb amount, right? It's like $80 or something. It's $900. Oh, my God. That's not that nice. But if someone shows up to your desk and puts it in your hand, you go, oh, I love this. Yeah.

So then I played with the iPad Pro, and I made some drawings on the Adobe thing. Did you draw Neely? No, I wrote my name. That's what you do? I was like, what you do? I'll write my name. What phrase do you type when you test a keyboard? Do you have a secret go-to?

Hi, my name is Lauren Good. Yep. Deeter? Uh, I'm old school. A quick brown fox, jumped over a lazy dog. Whoa. My note to myself was, don't forget to use this line break. Hmm, line break, what?

That's what I wrote. because I was trying to test it. That is amazing. Do you want to know how much of a deep nerd I am? If I don't have time to type the whole Quick Brown Fox thing, I type Loram I'm some duller sick omit. Wow, you're crazy. Yeah.

Wow. Okay. What was that again? Don't forget to test. Don't forget to use this. Hmm. What? Sounds like a Kesha song.

Yeah. Yeah. No, don't forget to use this song title. Hmm, what? Yes. album. Yeah. That's pretty good.

But yeah, so I immediately pulled it out and I played with it and then I realized there was an attached keyboard and then I set that up and then my coworker turned around and was like, oh, it's as big as your computer. And it is by one tenth of an inch. Yeah. Now it's huge. It's like comedy huge. And we were like, yeah, this would be fun to use like, like you could use this instead.

Oh, I got to use my computer. Like immediately. Immediately. Yeah. So Lauren wrote a whole piece about this. That's the best review ever. Yeah. I think I could use this instead of, wait, I have to use my computer.

Yeah. Oh, wait, I want to do something, anything now. I liked the two. Oh, and the best thing that happened was it was like, so it opened up to split screen. I was like, oh, this is cool. And the verge was up, of course. And there was a Samsung Galaxy ad on the verge as I'm putting with the this and putting this surface, whatever, away.

and it was and it was like a female hand holding a phone but it's not a phone it's a galaxy I learned in the end and she has like two little triangle tattoos on her wrist and like gold jewelry and like a like a shiny red nail yeah yeah and it was just like the styling of the female hand was like the fact that it was cropped in but you could still see like two tiny little tattoos but also gold jewelry do you know what I mean it was just like oh this is so specific. Anyway, that was a tangent that happened to me on the iPad. Good story. No, I hear what you're saying. Wow. Wow. Shut down by Fumo. Because all I want to talk about, all I want to talk about is the female hand in the phone ad, but we can talk about it. I feel like hand styling has become like a thing. Yeah, I mean, how much. Yeah. I mean, that hand communicated so much about what did it say to you?

What did it? She's like, all right. So she definitely had like nice enough jewelry on and it was it was stylish and artistic, right? Like this was so like, I mean, I don't know if you got, I guess because of our conversation, I've never done any styling work. But like little details like that, they're not accidents. You know what I mean? Like they didn't accidentally.

It wasn't like, oh, the model has a tiny tattoo. I can't believe it. Like, oh, we're going to paint her nail like this color. Like, oh, we're going to, she's going to wear this jewelry. Like none of that is an accident. It's this whole like she's creative, but she's on the go. she's professional, but she's edgy. You know what I mean?

Like, each of those pieces, the little bracelet and the tattoo and the ring and the nail, like they all mean something. Did that make you want a galaxy? No, but it's just like, it looked, I mean, it looked thirsty. It was like, oh, you're trying to V about this woman. And I see you. I see you. I like this breakdown.

Yeah. No, watching those ads, you Nicola is like intensely focused on how these tech companies are marketing to women. I know, it's my obsession. I think that's great. Because at the verge, we're more like, I don't know, this. Android skin over this looks just really obnoxious and we get really into like. Oh, we did.

Wait. Different type of skin. I, no, I sent this to you. They're like the T-Mobile, what T-Mobile sends me a RACT editor. Yeah. As an email versus what they would send like you guys about the same programs. Literally in the same events even. The, the way that they like speak to us.

It's just, I think I've mentioned this before, but it's just like, it's insane. And it's just like mind-numbing. Why does your phone wear the same outfit every day? Can I read it? Yeah. Oh, no. I mean what? No, I just mean like, oh no, for her sake.

Like, yeah. To get emails like that. This is a deep conversation about the iPad. Well, okay, while Nicola is digging through her email, why don't you tell me about the piece here today, which I am really interested in, which is the iPad Pro is here. There's so much conversation about how fast it is, and the screen is big and it's got a keyboard.

And then app developers, or at least some app developers are like, you know what? No. Yeah. There's no money here for us. It's this interesting juxtaposition of Apple saying this is a really high-powered device that can support professional-grade software and a bunch of creativity apps. And you've seen that in all like the marketing, the initial presentation of it.

But over the past week, I've spoken to several app developers who make creative applications, heavy creative applications, mostly for desktops, who say they're just either not making for iPad Pro or they're just, they're weighing the economic incentives right now. because everything is structured by the App Store. Yeah. So it's this computer-like device. It's this really powerful device, and we're seeing more and more of this convergence of PCs and tablets.

But for like the way the App Store is structured in the policies of the App Store, they're saying, I would normally charge $99 or $300, whatever it might be for this piece of software on the web, and I can't do that in the app store because people won't buy it that way in the app store. And people can't do free trials of my software, and I can't issue paid upgrades

when I have a significant update to the app. Right. And so, you know, everyone, everyone at this point, the story of, like, the way the app store is structured is very well told. It's a lot of free to play. It's, you've got, like, these whales, right? What are you? What are you? Emily just put up a headline on our site.

Oh, is it? What is it? Jimmy Arvane thinks finding music is too difficult for women. That's actually a thing that he said. Yeah. Anyway, you keep going on your thing. And then we'll, this will transition back in the Nicholas thing because it's all the same thing. Anyway, keep going by the iPad.

Oh, oh, yeah. So anyway, so it's not this way for every developer. There are a lot of developers who just say, listen, the power of the iOS ecosystem is so great. And I have access to hundreds of millions of consumers if I make my app for iOS. It's like it's not even a question for most of them. But there are some where just like I, their software is not sustainable, right? The more and more we iterate on our software. Mobile software is not sustainable.

Because the more and more they update their software, the more people they hire, the more they like do all these things to make it better. Like it's the economics don't work out if you are selling. your app for 99 cents or free and trying to sell really power for software that way. And if you're trying to sell powerful software, you can't be like, hey, get a new paintbrush for $3. Yeah. Yeah.

Some companies tried in-app tools, in app purchases, sort of modeling the free. Paper tried it and they gave up and they're like, now we make a pencil. And then they're free. And then they start making hardware. And they also, by the way, I mean, papers, we love 53, but, you know, they have at least $45 million in venture capital funding from some pretty fancy VC firms. And like not every indie developer that makes cool software. and each software can go out and do that.

Can we're making hardware, it can raise money from venture capitalists, like that or want to. So the question becomes like, as Apple is saying, like, why do you need a PC? Here's this amazingly powerful tablet. Like,

why isn't Final Cup Pro on the iPad Pro? Like, you're telling me to use I-Movie? My friend's nine-year-old daughter uses I-Movie. Like, I want to use FinalCup Pro, and it's a pro tablet. And so, like, if some of Apple's own professional software

isn't being optimized, at least at this point for this platform, then how can you expect these any developers need to make a buck at the end of the day? Yeah, Apple could just give it away for free. I mean, like, they would not even dent. It wouldn't even, like, ding off their bottom line, right? Like, you just give it away. And I've been thinking about this lot.

I actually had this long conversation with Walt on his show, both yesterday when we taped it and last week, about computers and complexity and, like, what a computer is. And Jake Kastranakus did a great video today where he was comparing the Surface Pro 4 and the iPad Pro, and he's like, the Surface Pro 4 is a laptop that wants to be a tablet, and the iPad is a tablet that wants to be a laptop, and they're just both in the middle of,

and there's shades of gray of each other. Right. But what strikes me about the iPad in this conversation we just had about, like, oh, I got to do some of my work. I used to my computer is, like, Apple has, like, gone too far, making things simple. Right, like, they're like, we're removing complexity, and it's, like, at some point, complexity is an evil. Like, complexity is what enables you to do things.

Right. And it's what creates the value. It's people saying people in certain professional fields saying I would pay X amount of dollars, hundreds of dollars for this software because it lets me do my job in a complex way, which can be a good thing. And then, you know, some of the story gets into this too, which is if you're a Facebook or you're an Adobe or you're a Microsoft, like you can totally do free because your business models are different. Like in this case of Adobe, right, they offer a variety of these free lightweight apps on iPad. Pro like comp and sketch and mix and fix and all this other stuff because at the end of the day,

you're going to go pay for your Adobe Creative Cloud service and you're going to buy Photoshop and you're just Lightroom, right? I paid $10 a month for those services. And so that's the way they do that. But if you're a small-time developer, that economic model is not necessarily going to work for you. Because one, people know, oh, this is an Doby thing. Oh, yeah, I could sign up for Adobe's thing. But if you're a small-time developer, like, am I going to go sign up for Joe's App Shop subscription? No. I guess I could sign up if Apple want to, if he wanted to like use Apple's subscription, but now Joe has to give a 30% cut to Apple, so he's got to increase it a little bit.

Yes. And like not every piece of software like can move to a subscription model. And it's like in-app purchasing for like, you know, trials or like pro apps is a bad model because like you're going to want to upgrade at some point. They're going to want to like charge for that upgrade at some point. And like piling on like year after year of like in-app purchases for upgrades is insane. subscriptions I think like it works for some people but I don't think it would it work for everybody so it's it's not just that they haven't added enough complexity into iOS to support the stuff

that we want to do although I do wish that they would open it up and do that a little bit it's that they've they've refused to allow complexity in the actual business model of how the people in their ecosystem are supposed to make money like that's the real problem I mean I heard one developer say we we charge $99 for our app on the Mac App Store, but we can't issue a free trial of that software to people through iOS, and so we would never dare ask someone to pay $99

sight unseen on this app. And then what if they tried it and they don't like it? And then what do they do? They go to the app store. They leave a one-star review and they're angry because they haven't been able to trial it. So Apple's answer to this has traditionally been, well, they're in-app purchases, right?

Which is sort of getting back to this whole idea, but that just doesn't work for everybody. So I think the story is really more about like the iPad Pro. It's not like pointing fingers to the iPad Pro and being like bad, this is bad. It's more that this new sort of hybrid-like device with the power of a computer but with a tablet form factor in a mobile operating is bringing to light these issues with App Store, the way the app store is operating. And I think like as these devices converge more, we're going to have to, Apple is going to, you know, all the app stores are going to have to look at how they're structured. Or they're going to just have to let people side load apps on the thing. That's a totally valid choice, right?

Like, just let Adobe sell, make Photoshop and sell it on the side. Right. And that, to me, that's what I mean about complexity. Like, that will add complexity. And they're like, maybe it'll open up to viruses or whatever Apple's afraid of. But it works great on the Mac. Or do it with a mobile version of Gatekeeper then. Right.

Yeah. Hmm. Right. No, they could. Yeah. I mean, Android is doing the, like, they are, they're, they're, they're, they're, aggressively checking stuff. Of course,

everybody's like, Android's got a ton of viruses, but they're doing monthly security updates. They're checking all the apps if you sign up for Google Play services to check for stuff. And you can get virus scanners on Android, although I don't think you should.

What did you think of the Surface Pro? It wouldn't let me log in. We'll bring you back next week. Nealai's password on that is I love Racked 2015. It is. So if you just enter that in. I actually do have the password somewhere. But you asked this question last week on the Vergecast where you said,

right now iPad Pro Pro Pro 4, and the answer is, you know, regardless of form factor, the fact that Nicola is sitting like seven feet from the Surface Pro 4 right now. I mean, it's getting farther away from her. It is. It's actually creeping farther away. She's like, I don't know what to do with this. I mean, the fact that it can run professional grade software is a differentiator.

Can I say that for some people? It's a differentiator. And that's why my question is, what is a computer? But that thing's a real computer. That Surface Pro 4, as it's currently spec, is somewhere around $16, $1,700. That iPad Pro aspect with the pencil and the thing is like a thousand. It's way cheap. It's 1049 without the pencil and keyboard.

Yeah, but you can get a Windows laptop for $150. Yeah, but you can't get a Windows laptop that feels tablady when you want it to. That is any good for... I would say just by... This is 13... This thing, by the way, is the Lenova, Yoga, whatever. 900. They changed their naming.

convention. It's a 1399. I think this one. You can get a two and one Windows PC for $1,000. Right. But can you get something? Why are you staring me like that? Nothing. Go on. All right. Can you get a tablet that costs less than like call it

800 bucks that can like feel laptop-y that does all the things that you wanted to? And like I don't think the answer is yes. Not yet. But soon. I feel soon. Between these two here that I have like I would be I would feel more comfortable using this the surface than the um

iPad with the keyboard but like you said Dieter like if you're not I mean if these are like if there's $800 difference between them but this like feels this like scares me this ratio of screen to keyboard scares me like I feel like I'm gonna I feel like it's gonna yeah just go away and this also feels like stir It feels like sturdy and I feel like I can do this and I'm okay with it

But if I were to like close the iPad, I have to like be like delicate Close the keyboard Let's see you do the origami Yeah you have to like drag it You hurt my pink airplane Yeah on an airplane If you ever needed a good reason to watch this on YouTube That you can't hear is what

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It's that begging that you do for them. God, why? They fund this hour of nonsense so that you'll bet. If only there was a place where my business could share files in a box, a drop box. Dropbox or business. It's all yours. Okay, it's lightning around time. Wait, can I read this email from T-Mobile?

Oh, yeah, and then I read the, oh, my God, we're going to go over today. I want you to read that, and then I want to read this Jimmy Iving quote because it's crazy. I just read that, and Emily Yoshita is. Another thing. My Google search. My dirty, dirty Google search. No, read the email. Read the email.

Okay. Yeah. We're just, we're destined to go over today. From T-Mobile News at can't say.com. Can't say.com blowing up right now. Sorry guys right now. Hi, Nicola. Here's a question for the fashionably conscious should be asking, what's my phone

wearing? Every day we get up and make accessory choices, what shoes, what bag, what coat. And then we leave the house with a phone in the same ugly, utilitarian case every day. That phone that you, spend all your time with and carry everywhere. Dot, that, dot, dot. Forced into a lifelong bad outfit. Tragic.

When I got this, I started, like, my heart started racing. I started sweating. I've read it so many times that I don't feel as emotional about it, but I just was like, this is so fucking offensive to me. Like, come on. Did you respond? By not ever, by this. He should have responded.

This is silence. You should have responded with a picture of your phone in no case, just being like, yo, just rolling nude. Yeah, birthday too. Utilitarian case. I love it. Oh my goodness. I bought it at the Apple store.

I thought my pitches were bad. I'm sorry. It's just crazy. I had a person demand to bring a dog to the office. Okay, so I'm going to read, you ready? You ready? You're ready to get fired up? Yeah.

It's Jimmy Iving today on CBS. Oh my God. CBS this morning. Yeah. Women find it difficult at times, some women to find music, and this helps make it easier. I just thought of a problem, you know.

Girls are sitting around, you know, talking about boys or complaining about boys, you know, when they're heartbroken or whatever. And they need music for that, right? So it's hard to find the right music, you know? Not everybody has the right lists or knows a DJ. That's it. Apple music, everybody.

Woo! Do you know a DJ? Do you have any heartbreak DJs in your life? I know what I'm feeling low. I call my friends the DJs. Obviously, many of my friends are, no, it's, I'm not. not a DJ. It's just that I know lots of those. Oh man.

We didn't talk about Tinder either. Nealai. Oh. What? What is music? I don't know. lists are hard. What are lists? I don't know. I don't know any DJs. I got to say Emily's write-up of this is gold. It's so funny. Everybody should read this. It's really, really funny. You know, when girls are sitting around complaining my boys.

That's what you do, right? That's all you do. It's unfortunately a lot. of what we do. I wish it weren't. Oh, man. Oh, boy. So, but you know a bunch of Tinder DJs then? Have you ever asked a Tinder DJ for Heartbreak songs? Mad, Tinder DJs. Actually, I do love making boys give me music. I do that a lot. And then judge, you know, all kinds of. And then it's like an easy, quick, I'm, I have to write this afternoon, but like, no, I can't have any words. What should I listen to? And then they send you a playlist. Yeah. And then. And then, and you're like, oh, nope, swipe left.

Yeah. Bad taste. Yeah. You want to talk about the Tinder CEOs? So the company that owns Tinder? Yes. Match. Match.

IPO today? Mm-hmm. Made a bunch of money. But then, like, yesterday, Sean Radd, perfect name. Great. The CEO of Tinder gave this, like, disaster interview. Yes. Do you want to talk through it?

I mean, there's really just one line. Well, he was like, first of all, he's like, I haven't slept to that many chicks. just 20. And then he was like, supermodels are always trying to bang me. And then he was like... One in particular. One in particular. He was very, very famous.

And he's just has to fend her off. This was like in my world of the internet yesterday. Like this was the link I couldn't stop seeing. Or like this was the re-blog. I couldn't stop seeing everywhere I went with the same like couple of things. So I'm like very exhausted from it. Oh, I see. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Did you have to call a DJ boyfriend to give you songs about it? No, actually. I'm quitting Tinder for. for real. Every time you just came back. But the more I say it's really happening, the more it's going to happen. And after this, I was like, now I can claim moral reasons.

But really, it's just, I'm so tired. Anyway, what was his line? He was like, I need to find somebody that I intellectually connect with. What's it called? Sodomies. Sodomy. I had this PR person. I was like, no.

I had to look this up. And so now in my Google search history is Sodomy, rad. Rad sodomy. Thanks. I got to say, I mean, just Tinder. Just, I feel like the only reason we talk about Tinder on the show is because you have this, like, love, hate. I know. When will have crumbled.

When I told my friend this morning that I was, like, leaving Tinder, she sent me a screencap. Because now Tinder shows where you work on it. And it should, and she sent me a screen cap with someone who's employed at Hinge on Tinder. And she just wrote, like, lo, none of us can win or, like, something like that. He works at the other dating one. And then he's still out here. He's still playing. I liked it the one.

So like there was like a sexual harassment case at Tinder. And then she went and found her another dating app. But that one's called Bumble. Yeah. And the idea that it's called Bumble is just such a sad commentary. That's the one where women have to message men first and you only get 24 hours to do it. Wait a bit. So you basically, who's bubbling?

No. You have to message it. It double vibrates when you match. I don't use them. If I were on the dating scene, I would definitely be the bumbler. I'm just saying. No, what you're supposed to do is you're supposed to message them

and you're supposed to say, hi, how do I find music? Are you a DJ? I was just sitting around with my friends complaining about boys and it would be great if you could make me a list of songs. Yeah. Oh, Jimmy.

I'm usually such a Jimmy fan and that's such a fail. You don't think this was like a taken out of context like conveniently terrible? No, Emily embedded the video. I mean, we can play the video. I just, I've already read all the quotes. Yeah. Isn't that how it works?

Are you ready? Sean Redd also said that his mom, this is actually pretty sweet. She texts him like 17 times a day and she calls a lot. Yeah, because he's crazy. He talks to his mom a lot. He's probably like, are you talking to a reporter? Be quiet.

Like if I have Sean Redd's mom. Like I would just have that in a macro. Be like, oh, it's on the hour. Beep. All right, lightning round. Yeah. Boy. Cats and pickles.

Cucumbers. You can What just happen to Lord Everybody? Cats hate them some cucumbers Not fans of cucumbers What the hell is supposed to Why?

They cannot stand them What just happened? They like tomatoes But cucumbers Dukinis? Okay Yeah yeah Dukinis are fine

But not cucumbers Anybody know what the hell's going on? No You have to have a cat to understand Teeter and I would oh it's the whole It's the whole thing Okay Well that was the lightning round

It's really weird inside joke Team mobile It's super strange Although stop looking at me that way I don't know what's happening Team mobile has sued yet another company For using the color magenta They claim that they have a trademark

On the color magenta and people are getting confused This time is a German Smartwatch company company called Oxy. Do you think colors should be trademarkable like that? They actually are. I mean, do you only think of T-Mobile and you think of magenta?

Or do, like, I'm okay with a brand being like this is our pantone. Like, we have this. Yeah. You know, I really put this in to tell a story that when we ran Engadgett, and Gadget Mubble's color was magenta and T-Mobile sued us. Really? Do they really? It's ridiculous.

How did that end up? We put up a post saying T-Mobile will just suit us for trying to use magenta and people freaked out T-Mobile backed all the way down. Power. Couldn't you just say that color is a secondary property, not a primary property, and therefore it doesn't exist in reality? Ding. Adele's new album is that.

Have you listened to it? No. No. It's not on Spotify, though. Micah! I don't know how to find music. You get on Tinder to find some DJs. No, of course I've heard it.

Hello from the other side, Dieter. Oh. Wow. Hello. I don't get it. How's that flip phone? this huge phenomenon. I just,

I don't get it. I listen to the new Justin Bieber. How's that? I love Steel drums, Sad Boy, Island Bieber,

the new Bieber, and he's just begging for forgiveness. From who? From Salina? No, from all of us because he knows he's been... He's on his

Leboof tour. Oh. By the way, steel drum, Sad boy. Seal Drum Sad Boy, yeah. That is my band's name.

But it's all just like, Island like, but then he's just like comes in with his emotions and forgiveness. Data review the Chrome bit, which turns any monitor or television into a Chrome OS computer for $85. Yes, I did.

I watched the Snap story. Should I buy it? Should we buy it? Buy it if you want a spare random ass computer in your junk drawer. Buy it if you know you're never going to use it more than five tabs on it. LA Auditioner this week. You got a bunch of people there. Tamara Warren got a huge scoop. I found a company. It's a secret company that's

for Tesla. But Thomas Sirker this morning put a head on the site cars on you gadget. Is that correct? Lauren, good. Yes. Land Rover evoke convertible SUV. Land Rover evoke convertible SUV? Yeah.

Convertible SUV? Yes. A convertible SUV. Yes. This is either like the coolest thing ever or it's the next BT cruiser. I'm like, wait, do I love this or is this like the worst? The press shot is a guy. They're driving, I believe he's in the snow, but he's wearing sunglasses and like short

sleeves with the top down, just like blasting in his SUV. That's the whole life. I'm assuming he's not wearing shoes. Lightning round. Driving car with no shoes on. Bad. Super bad. Awful.

Super fun. No. No. Because if you get in a garage, you have to walk on the concrete that's got oil slick on it, and that's gross. Also, I feel like I'd be so focused on the texture on my toes, and then I would be distracted from driving. No, but wet feet in the garage.

Worst thing ever, right? That's disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. Emoji is the word of the ear. The happy emoji. I'm doing a thing with my hands. It's not a word.

It's an emoji. Don't be a prescriptivist. It's fine. What do you mean? I hate it. The happy emoji has to be the word of the year. I'm confused. It is the Osherd-English dictionary.

The word of the year is like the happy with tears. It's the crying. It's the like laughing crying. Yeah. Laughing crying emoji. What does that say about this year? It's so sad. It's really dark.

The words are started as pictograms and now we're going back and it's fine. Don't worry about it. Just like we're going back to silent podcast. I don't hate that actually. Have you? I'm with you. I'm with you. Have you clicked on the Evo convertible picture yet?

No, where is it? I'll send it to you. We only have like two more things in Lightning Round. Okay. I'm just saying. Fallout 4, Dieter. I haven't played afraid to because I'd want to keep my job and my life and my girlfriend. I don't understand it.

Is that like Fallout Boy? Yes. You just giggling at the car? No, at Fall Out Boy. There's no other response to Fall Out Boy. I actually have deep feelings about Fall Out Boy, but that's another thing. All right. All right, one more.

One more. We're not doing a show next week. That's right. So we got to do it today. Dieter, what are you thankful for? Don't start with me. Why not? Because I said so.

I started with, okay, Lauren, what are you thankful for? You got to do it today. Do I have to be serious? No. Oh. Have you been on this show for the past hour? You can be thankful for Tinder DJs if you want. Oh, man.

Be serious. Let the audience connect with you. Okay. Well, so personally, I'm very thankful to be working with you guys because as of, you know, just a few months ago, I was over at Recode and now we're merging and it's, you know, you guys bought us and it's been going really well so far. It started on a real high and it ended with like a dry statement of facts. And then there was an exchange of value. Now I must work here. Yes, and I was traded like a baseball player.

No, no, no. But in all seriousness, I'm so excited to be working with you guys. it's been really cool so I'm very grateful for that and for that opportunity in the experience so far it's going to get better and I'm also grateful that we just were we're very lucky people we're very lucky people and you're laughing right now and I'm watching a gift him a cat just freaking out of this cucumber and I'm grateful I told you cats and cucumbers okay well I'm thankful that you were here too all right me which one I don't know I called on Dieter earlier and he refused to answer so I'm calling you Nicola I'm grateful that my cat allergy

are going away with age. I don't know. What? You have a cat thing. They really are, though. As I get older, I'm less allergic to cats. It's great. Okay.

So well than hell. Esoteric response for Thanksgiving. No, I mean, to go the serious note, yeah, I have a really lovely life. I have a lot of very good and supportive people in my world. And I love doing this verge thing. It's like totally new weird world to be in. It's great. Um, yeah, just the basics.

Family, friends, employment, and living alone. Another dark alley for Nicola. Really? Okay. Yeah. Oh, my God. The Players Mansion? I feel like we're going to. That's my hashtag for my home decor on Instagram, the Players Mansion.

You can look it up. All right. You have to go next. I have to go next. Well, I'm thankful for all of you. I'm thankful for this show. I like our company and our thing. And I'm thankful for a Tinder DJs.

Because now I want to meet some. I can send you a bunch of ghosts. This is amazing. I'm thankful for having a nickel on the show. Yeah. I love being here. Bonzone. Thankful for my family.

I'm thankful for people that on the internet find ways to be kind and humane instead of knee jerk and mean. Because it's not easy and it's super easy to not be. And so for people who actually try and even in 140 characters or in a comment, you know, express some charity and find ways to be decent and understanding. It's really nice. Please do it more. Yeah. And we have a good audience. I'm thankful.

The Virchcast audience in particular is very kind. So nice. Thanks, guys. Yeah. They showed up for Nicola in a comment. Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

They like you. It was great. They really like you. All right. They really do. They do. Hang on. We got one more.

I'll get through it. Give me a second. This one's for Brain Tree. That guy's actually tapping his fingers over there. I know. We're so over. Look. Look, Andrew.

We'll be done with this show in a minute. We're 10 minutes over. Let's talk about full stack payment solutions. Soft player. No, it's Braintree. So wrong. So wrong. Oh, sorry, Braintree.

I got to say Software owes is like $30. Plaintively tweeting at us. Because they don't know what's going on. That's a new hashtag for us. That was so. great. By the way, if you're listening to this, please do not explain to SoftLayer's Twitter account. Just keep using the hashtag. But sign up for their cloud services. Yeah. All right. Branch Tree gives you a full-stack payment solution. Brain Tree has support for all payment types

that your customers might want. You can start accepting Android pay, Apple Pay, PayPal, Bitcoin, Venmo, cards, whatever is next with a single integration across all platforms with superior fraud protection, customer service, and fast payouts. We're going to just put. Put it on the verge. Just pay the verge with whatever you want. Check it out for yourself. Hit braintree payments.com slash verge cast and just start integrating that money directly into your life. Can I say something real quick?

Yes. And you've got to engage. Yeah, yeah. I will engage. Before I engage, I want to say, I think two verge cast ago, I encouraged people. So this would have been two weeks ago, so now we're on the third week of it. Maybe it's three weeks ago. But I encouraged people to troll N Eli by saying the Packers suck.

They're awful. And ever since then, they've just been sucking. They've been sucking. They're so bad. So please keep doing it. Speaking of charity, I put up that joke post about the Packer sucking and Aaron Rogers like throwing a surface on the ground. Yeah, yeah.

I've been getting hate mail from like fellow Wisconsinites. Really? We're like, you don't stop it. Support your team. It's not about Aaron. It's about him throwing the surface. Yeah. I mean, they're also too.

By the way, it's officially called the Tears of Joy emoji. That's the word of the year is tears of joy. I live with a Patriots fan. That would be amazing. Huh? Oh, I said I live with the Patriots fan. But fortunately. Wow.

That's awful. I know. If you want to follow us. You should meet some Tinder DJs. If you want to follow us, we can. Find some boys that can make you some songs. We're at Verge and on Snapchat, on Twitter. On Snapchat, we're the real Verge.

You should go to iTunes and give us a review there on iTunes. We prefer the five stars. And while you're there, you should leave a review and you should tell us what you're thankful for. That would be really kind and nice. You said all the tweets and snaps. I have mentioned a couple of tweets and snaps. I'm also going to say we've got other shows. We've got What's Tech?

We've got ControlWalt Delete. And there's Verge ESP. These are all very good shows. You can find all of them at iTunes.com slash The Verge. If you'd like to follow us on Twitter. I am Backlon. Lauren Good is Lauren Good with an E.

Nicolpheumo is Nicolpheumo with an underscore. Between the first and last name. Right. Nelai is reckless. I am. Reckless. Can't fight it. What was that?

I don't know. I think I was trying to wink and then I blinked. It was like a two-eye half-wink. It was kind of a reckless. week. It was kind of a sleepy. Yeah, it was a You reckless DJ you.

We're taking next week off for Thanksgiving. Thank you. So we're going to miss you and we hope you'll miss us. But we're grateful for you guys. You're wonderful. Tweeted us.

We actually have a surprising amount of hilarious Thanksgiving posts going up on the side. I'm excited for that. It's be fun. All right. It's Gold Vikings. Goodbye.

Rock and roll.