The Vergecast - Two admirals, a coxswain, and a guy with a steering wheel

Episode Date: July 29, 2016

We've been going over in time for the past few episodes, and this week is no exception. But we have an excuse. It's earnings week and there are a lot of thoughts. Nilay, Dieter, Paul, and Lauren bring the news right to your ears. 01:55 - Apple earnings 22:52 - Apple car 25:33 - The trolley problem 29:09 - Apple TV 44:45 - Paul's "Gadget Flavor" 50:31 - Google earnings 53:51 - Facebook earnings 54:53 - Twitter earnings 1:00:43 - Google hardware 1:04:52 - Amazon earnings 1:05:53 - BLU phone Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello. Hey. Hello. That's just fucking video. Hello, this is the Vergecast. That was not a good beginning to the Vergecast. But you know what? It's like Vergecast, what is it? Like 2.13. It's some enormous number to 14. Yeah. It's Vergecast 214. It's not a large round number. You don't even need to try. Yeah, but, you know, we've been doing it for a while. We got to like, got to re-energize. You know, 100 episodes from now, we're only going to talk about pie. Yeah Probably true Anyway Hi everybody Welcome to Vergecast The flagship podcast Of the verge.com

The one, by the way Many people told me It's the one of the admiral Has been nonstop people Defining flagship to me Yeah So whichever one of us For chooses to be the Admiral

That's always the flagship Yeah That's the flagship Anyway I'm Neilai Patel That's Lauren Good That you're hearing Hey Lauren

Hi This is Admiral Lauren Good. We're all admirals now. I don't know what that means. I don't know. You get a hat. Dieter is here. Yeah, I'm the Swain. I'm the Coxswain. So you're just telling us to row?

Yeah. Great. And Paul Miller's here. Hello? How's it going? I was trying to think of a different job on a ship. I'm steering. Yeah, that guy. You got the big wheel? Yeah, I got the big wheel. That feels good to me. Look, this boat...

That's called the captain? Admirals, a guy yelling for people to row, a dude with the steering wheel. That's a really effective ship. Flagship. And I got to say, one of the most threatening navies in the entire podcasting ocean. This week,

this is usually where I say a joke about Cizzer Vodka, so I'm just going to say cut through the night. Nice. All of you understand that. Good. Good. Catchphrase. This week, kind of, a lot going on this week.

Sort of defined structurally by the fact that every big tech company has its quarterly earnings this week. And we were just talking about this before we came on the show. The nitty-gritty of the numbers is not, to us, particularly interesting. Right? It's like... Like, we're not playing the stocks game. That's not our job.

We don't even own stock. This is where if Walt was here, he would now do two minutes about how he can't invest in anything. He doesn't own any stocks. And that's all true for us, too. Right. We don't... Nobody's allowed to own any stocks. It doesn't matter to us.

We really care about the products. But earnings is a really good time for us to just sort of see how every company is doing. Are they up? Are they down? So we got to start, I think. Just get into it with a little fruit company. Makes a very popular cell phone. Don't do that.

Don't be the guy who calls it the fruit company. I love calling it the fruit company. Take a drive down one infinite loop. Fruit company is some like Twitter troll garbage. I'm too cool to refer. refer to Apple, so I'm going to call it that fruit company and feel like I'm superior. You know what we never do? Just don't do it.

We never refer to companies as the cities in which they reside. Do you remember when everyone you refer to Microsoft as just Redmond? What will Redmond do? How will Redmond respond? I think people say, like, down in Cupertino and everyone knows who you're talking about. Yeah, but no one's ever, like, waiting for the response from Cupertino. Like, that was, like, a print journalist move. You know, when you can't use the same, you got, like, a crusty old editor is like

You got four inches, Bob. You got to change up the words. We should just do that some more. Anyway, look, there's a technology company called Apple, which is a fruit, I guess. It doesn't matter. Dieter hates me now. So much. So their earnings came out.

Lorne and I were actually talking about it as we were covering them. They have been saying they're not going to be great for some time. And the big story. Yeah, Apple's been like, Apple's been. like that significant other that's like, listen, I'm going to be a really shitty boyfriend. And then they like bring you flowers and it's really

not all that much. But you're like, that's so nice because your expectations were so low. Yeah. And instead of flowers, they brought basically flat iPhone sales. Right. They're like, yeah, I don't know. The analogy is not going to work. No, the analogy.

So last quarter was the first time in 13 years. years that the company had reported a decline in, it was a decline in revenue, correct? No, sorry, it was an iPhone sales. iPhone sales were basically flat and revenue was down for them for the first time in a long time. For last quarter. Last quarter. So they had set their guidance to be very low, and so they just sort of narrowly, you know,

scooted past what analysts had expected and what their guidance had been. And so they did beat expectations. And as a result, the stock got a nice little jump. And that was sort of the same story across all of their unit sales as well. If you looked at every key product, if you looked at iPhone, if you looked at iPad, if you looked at Mac, year over year, all of their numbers were down. But because the expectations had been set so low, they sold more. They actually made more money off of iPad now because they're making more expensive iPads. They're selling more at the iPad Pro.

And so an investor seemed to like it. Yeah. So that was pretty much the story there. But we're not investors. Let's talk about the... Great. I think that the thing is, we're coming up towards September, which is traditionally time for a new iPhone. And they've also been really underselling this next iPhone, right?

Like, the rumor in the world is that this... And all the leaks, quite frankly... They'll move the antenna lines. They'll move the antenna lines. Get rid of Mili's favorite plug. It's the best plug. Best plug. I bet it'll be faster.

It'll be faster. You might have an OLED screen. Before we get to the next iPhone... iPhone, shouldn't we talk about the number of phones they've sold so far? Like, they hit a billion. Yeah, so it was like the day after or something? Yeah, they announced it the day after earnings. They did not. How frustrating is that? Come on, just do it the same day. Just come on guys. Just tell them the same day. Well, we haven't hit it yet. We're at 999. 99,000. That just shows you how honorable they are. They're so honorable. Down in Cooper Tino.

In the Apple Orchards of Cooper Tino. No, I mean, they may have also been saving that data point to see how the stock reacted. The day after the earnings report and then just kind of, who knows, maybe keeping it in their back pocket. But yeah, that's a lot of iPhones. That's a lot. So I just think the story is, and there was a great post by the guy named Benning Tevins, being like, the smartphone wars are over. The platform wars are over. We know who won and lost. Apple and Google have won. And if you pull it apart, there's way more Android phones out in the world. But obviously, Android has a freaking problem, so you got to count them

differently and you can't really measure everything directly. But generally, in this industry, the phone thing happened. And Apple is kind of feeling that, right? Like, they're not spiking their sales. They're not growing. They're just selling as many phones. I think they sold, let's say, 40.4 million iPhones. And last year, they sold 47.5 million iPhones.

Which is, by the way, a fucking enormous number of iPhones. If Apple never added another feature to the iPhone, but they just released, kept shipping the iPhone 6S. Yeah. For how long, I feel like they could keep selling those for like five years. I mean, if you think about the iPhone I see, it's the same phone. Right. Just a little bit faster. Right, with a better processor.

And there's a part of me where it's like, I have to buy an iPhone every couple years because I drop it and break it. Yep. Or the battery starts to die for, you know, for whatever reason. I kind of, I'm on this treadmill. Yeah. Well, so here's a comparison. Samsung's earnings came out selling S-7s, like crazy, biggest profit in Samsung history, led by their mobile division. So there's something going on there, but it's hard to say exactly what.

VR. It might be VR. My sense of Samsung is that everybody who likes Samsung phones skipped the S-6 because it wasn't that good. Yeah. I mean, I think that's totally fair. They took all the stuff that you wanted them to do in the S6, and then they did it, right? And then they have the edge, which is a remarkably good phone and has a huge screen and a not huge body and is just flat up beautiful. And, you know, they are probably making a bunch of free money on selling gear VR headsets.

There are a hundred bucks. It probably makes them five bucks to make them. So it's not a total shock to me. The big question with Samsung is, like, I am not willing to say that, oh, my, God, they're back on the upswing and they're leading a, they're bucking the trend of flat smartphone sales worldwide until later, because to me, this looks like a story of people didn't want to upgrade to the last galaxy phone. They were waiting for this one. This one came around and they're like, yep, this is great. I'm buying this. I think it's a bigger story of Samsung finally

achieving a design aesthetic, a certain design aesthetic that is neither ridiculous nor derivative. Well, did you see their font, the Samsung 1 font? It's fine. It is literally the definition of fine. It's like they went to 50 design agencies and they're like, what is a typeface that screams fine? On a scale 1 to 10, would you rate that font to 7? Yes, that font is a 7. It is literally so inoffensive that if they hadn't told us they did it, we would have never noticed that it happened.

Which is probably what you want in like a system font, but it's still like... My favorite thing about the font was all the, like, you know, like, when you're, like, trying to come up with, like, your corporate directive and, like, what words define us? And you have, like, brainstorms and you, like, throw balls back and forth brainstorming. You know. Have you ever been in a brainstorm? I have been in a corporate exercise. I don't know. The last brainstorm I recall being in with you was the one where we named the verge and you rode your bicycle upside down in your apartment.

That's true. See, you got to do something physical to keep the mind. Okay. Here's what they came up with in whatever setting. Just use your imagination. Yes. Human, balanced, ownable, distinctive, universal, scalable, expert, durable. Durable.

Nothing so sexy like the word durable. Let's make a thought with all of those adjectives. And they did. Literally all those out. Anyway. So that's a context, right? But there's other stuff going on with Apple, too. So iPhone sales are flat and not a big surprise.

there is this idea that the next iPhone won't actually be the seven. I heard a terrible rumor, completely unsubstantiated, but kind of makes sense that they'll call the iPhone 6 SE, and then the next one will be the seven, because that would be the radical redesign. Yeah, there's also a rumor that the next MacBook Pro would be like the Mac Pro SE or something like that, also completely unsubstantiated. I got a, I got, it's just not a good idea. I'm just putting it out there. Like, I get that there's some history with SC and Apple and. Yeah, well, I had a, I had an SC30 was like the best computer ever made. I had an SC.

I had an SC3. Well, the one with the dual floppies. They both had dual floppies. They did? Yeah. But the SC30, I think, came with a hard drive a bunch of time. Anyway. I mean, to me, SCE stands for, we don't know what our product roadmap looks like, and we can't fill out the exact product lines of the way that we

want to, so we're just going to slap the word SE on it and make a thing because we've got to make a thing. It's like Mike Wave. It might be an incredibly good thing, but it doesn't tell you what's going to happen in three years the way that MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, MacBook tell you what's going to happen in three years. Yeah. I mean, on the call, they pointed out several times the demand for the iPhone SE was way bigger than they thought. But that was small.

Yeah. That was about there being a small iPhone. Not about calling a phone SE. So let me ask you this. this. This is a real question I thought about a lot. The thing that has driven phone sales forever has been screen size. Form factor in screen size. Not necessarily design, operating system, whatever. I mean, the Android manufacturers were killing, well, not killing. They were doing well in sales when they had the big phones, and Apple didn't, and then Apple made the big phone,

and their sales sirequeted. And then Apple's like, what about a small phone again? And their sales went up. Is that it? Is that all that we care about? It's a little dosy-go? Screen. Screen. Screen size? No, it is going to come down to the services. I mean, I think the one sort of, the one bright spot of their earnings that they didn't really have to hedge at all was this idea that their services have grown. I think, I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but year over year. And so they've been pushing that lately, right? And things like the App Store are becoming an increasingly important part of their revenue generation and getting just people locked into Apple's infamous wall.

garden. And so, like, I actually don't think the screen size is just product differentiation and it's classic form. It's like, oh, look, something new. We changed the screen size. Or we added this hardware feature, like 3D touch. But at the end of the day, it's just all about getting people to use their apps and use their services. Right. It's like, you know you have to buy this phone and Apple makes you, helps you feel better about it. It's like, oh, well, I'm getting this one because it's got a bigger screen. I'm getting this one because it's got a smaller screen. I'm getting this. Their camera.

Right. There's something on the spec list that I can pretend to myself, that's the reason. But really, I'm just re-upping. Yeah. Can I tell you guys a story about screen size? I have switched from a 6 plus and a Nexus 6P down to a regular 6S and a Nexus 5X, and I couldn't be happier. I'm done with Fablitz.

That's a good love story. Really? You're done with Fablitz. I don't think I need a Fablet. P-I-O-T-S. Yeah, man. That stands for put it on the site. It's normally the Coxswain is the person who yells to put it on the site.

But in this case, the admiral is really just. I'm really actually like, you're the admiral. I'm like the iceberg watcher. I'm like, look out for iceberg. Lawrence, the lookout. Land. Finally, the ship is coming to show her. I can get off his boat.

No, I mean, wait, Dieter, tell me more about this. You're just over it. I don't need a huge phone. Like, even, except on certain Android phones where they manage to let you do the thing where you can, like, change the font size, which the S7 just added on AT&T with like a random carrier update. You don't get to see that much more. The story of Android.

Like, yeah, that's fair. The S7 on AT&T because of a carrier update. It allows you to change the font size. Well, it's not the font size. It's the zoom size. But regardless. You don't get to see that much more on a big phone than you do on a small phone. And the promise that big phones would give you better battery life turned out to be a huge lie.

And so what do you get out of a big phone other than I'm old? I like to see things bigger. Well, that's shot to the heart, Dieter. Better battery life. No, but Deeter's right. My 6S does not get appreciably better battery life than any of my old small phones. Your 6S plus, too, means. Success plus, yes, that's true.

Yeah. I will say that having the fablet is the thing that has basically let me use my phone as a primary computer. When I had smaller phones, I would always be like, ah, and then, like, go to a laptop. But now I'm, like, banging away. Yeah, I remember when Dieter had worked on his big feature story about Sundar Pachai around last year's I. Neely, that's when you and I were chatting at code conference. And you were like, look at this thing we're working on. And you took out your giant fablet.

and you basically went through like your whole workflow process on the fablet. And I was like, wow. I was just thinking in my head I would definitely need to take out my laptop if I were going to show somebody a project of this scale and like what we're doing. Yeah. Anyway, that's like really silly anecdote. But one other thing to you, which you guys are going to be like, oh, okay, like wearables nerd. But fables really suck for exercising too, like carrying them on your arm

or trying to put them on your body in some way or like, like, I don't know, in a bike pack or whatever it is. Like, just having a fablelet when you're exercising sucks. You need a like a shoulder holster, like a James Bond. Yeah. They make them. You can buy them. Let me just say this.

No holster for a phone has ever been cool. Are you sure? I'm 100% sure. No, no, the original StarTac plastic belt holster was badass. Oh, I know what you're talking about. That thing, it was badass in the sense that it was because it was so, aggressively plastic it felt like you were like clipping a like a gun but like every other holster has never been that cool also the StarTack was designed it had clips

for that holster yep the phone itself was designed around a belt holsters are you talking about belt holsters yes well I'm thinking of like shoulder holsters like where cops like detectives that's what I was thinking about you don't you don't wear your phone around your puppy this guy this guy look at this cool man on this audio podcast. It's a radio show, Paul. Wow, look at this. You know, the 90s are back, so we should bring this back. I'm going to go ahead and tell you it's a radio show.

We should talk about Apple Car and Apple TV, too. Oh, the Apple TV story is amazing. There's one more thing I was going to say about funds, but it doesn't matter. But Lauren is, I think, right. I mean, Apple's big thing was we're growing services. Oh, that's what I was going to talk. I was going to ask

to learn about the watch. Almost no mention of the watch. And we're coming up to an event where it seems like they're almost certainly going to do new phone. The Macs are in desperate need of refreshes. And sort of all signs point to watchOS3 coming out for real

against an updated watch. And it seems like watch sales that, you know, they've just gone down. Well, it's a million years old. Like, people aren't going to buy it. It's like a year old. It came out in April of 2015. Yeah.

A million years old. I was like, I don't want to be on this treadmill, this product upgrade cycle. That thing is a million years old. Can you imagine that there was only like a year and a couple months ago that the watch came out and we all had like the watch moment? That can't be that recent. Yes, it was that recent. Wow. Okay, well, I knew it was over a year.

So I was right about that. A million years. I guess what confused me is that we're on watchOS 3. Yeah, because they put it out. on watchOS like 0.0.0.0.0. That's a good version. Yeah. Well, so.

Maybe that's why. Maybe it wasn't mentioned. So the reason why they put out, you know, two versions, two newer versions of software is because the app loading process was so slow on it. I mean, Neely has written about this as well. And what was the story that you wrote about? Life is too slow. Life is too short for slow computers.

Yes. And it was all about your wrist computer. It was all about Apple Watch. I want on my tombstone someday. Obviously, risk computers aren't going to go away. They just have a long ways to go before they're really great. Right. Oh, yeah, but so to that point, though, the reason why they had to put out new software is because

it was really slow, and so they started to move more and more of the app logic onto the wrist itself in an attempt to make that a better experience. But at the end of the day, having app developers build for iOS and then build for maybe MacOS and, you know, build an Apple TV app. And then, oh, by the way, I should probably optimize this and make a little micro app for Apple Watch. Like, that's just obviously not the number one platform in most cases that people are going to build for, or that consumers are going to interact with. Like, there are some, like there are some companies that are like, hey, we built a heart rate monitoring app specifically for Apple Watch. And that's, and that's great. And that's

maybe like the platonic use case for that. But it's still like, if they are really pushing for apps and services right now, it's not like, WatchOS is going to be the killer platform for that? But was the killer app for the phone something that came from the desktop? No, the phone converged every other device into it. That was its move. Like, you don't need a calculator more because you have a phone. You don't need a camera anymore because you have a phone.

You don't need an iPod anymore because you have a phone. And then we all cried because iPods were amazing. What was the first thing, though, that you felt like the phone could do that nothing else could do, that you got from the app store? probably some game. Shazam? Nah. I mean, just, be in a long ago. Stuff like Shazam and games.

That thing where you could pretend like you're drinking a beer. It was super monkey ball. It was super monkey ball. Yeah. And then it's, now it's stuff like Pokemon Go, right? Like, by the way, can we just say that Tim Cook on the call was asked

by Gene Munster, no less. What do you think of AR? And he first admitted that Apple's investing heavily in AR, which we, whispers about. But like Tim Cook said, our bets on AR, we think it's going to be huge. And then he pronounced Pokemon. It's Pokemon.

Like a real mom. We're investing. And the number one thing is to make sure our products work well with other kind of products like Pokemon. And so that's reason you see somebody iPhones out in the wild right now chasing Pokemon. It's kind of adorable. It was super cute. Yeah, like I wrote a whole post about it and then it was like, man, there's no way I can

write this without it just coming off as mean. And I don't, like, I actually think it's, like, charming and adorable, so we just killed the post. It was really fun. And there was just that moment after he said, that's why so many people are hunting Pokemon's, that there was just kind of that silence. And everyone on that phone call agreed that they weren't going to mention it. And they just moved on. The Vergecast, as you know, is supported by city cards with Android pay. How cool is it that we live in a world where you can use the same device to listen to the Vergecast and buy your morning coffee, groceries, and more?

Did I mention that it's a super fast way to pay? Just use your city card with Android pay at the register. Get in, get it, and get going. Download the Android Pay app on Google Play or visit city.com slash Android pay to get started. Android Pay is available for eligible city, consumer, credit, and debit cards. Anyway, so we should move on to the next two things about Apple that Dieter or Lorne, you brought it up. The services are growing, which ties into the big TV story, the Wall Street Journal published today, and then there's a bunch of car news today, too.

So let's do cars real quick, and then we can, there's a lot of meat on the TV bone. That is the worst phrase ever uttered on the verge cast. Three days ago, we heard that Apple was bringing back Bob Mansfield to run. They can't get enough of each other. He just can't. He can't quit Apple. They keep reeling him back in. Yeah.

So he used to run hardwood apples. We're like, oh, great. They're actually like going to make this thing. But then today, Mark Herman. They brought him back to run chips, and then he left again. Yeah. I don't know what to tell you, man. Bob.

He's just, everyone loves Bob. What about him? Anyway, the news, the big news is, and this is kind of interesting, they brought him back, they're obviously investing in the car stuff, another leak, Lauren, to your theory, they put out the earnings, and then a bunch of news came out today. Who knows? But the story was they're focusing more on autonomous driving software, than necessarily the car.

Yeah, that's the story today, and it's actually two parts. So one thing that's interesting is it's Mark German's first big scoop over at Bloomberg, so big ups to Mark German. And they hired this guy named Dodge. Dan Dodge. Dan Dodge. What a great name. What's interesting about him is he ran the previous only decent

car software that you could trust to actually not crash, like software crash, which was QNX, QNX, which Blackberry bought. So he used to be the CEO that. But now he's coming over to Apple under Mansfield, and German says that they are, like now I just said, not as interested in building a car as they are in creating autonomous driving

software. Which, who's going to take Apple software to just put in their car? Well, maybe some of the manufacturers that are already using Apple on their dashboard. Yeah. My great fear at the car is always, if you buy the Apple car, like Apple loves lock-in, right? They love their Wild Garden, and somehow that car is going to demand that you use Apple Mail on your phone. Right? Like, that's the nightmare scenario. It's like, I bought a new car, and now I have to use mail. Or maps.

The only calls that are allowed to go through to you while you're driving are people that you've marked as VIP and Apple Mail. Yeah, like, that's the nightmare. It's literally the worst case scenario is that I have to set up mail on my fucking MacBook and, like, use the VIP feature. You know, if they really are building and distributing self-driving car software. The next earnings call, I want Gene Munster to have his question be about the trolley problem. Deeder, can you explain to the listeners and also me what the trolley problem is?

Really? You don't know the trolley problem? No, I totally do. I just want to make sure the listeners know it is. It's this old philosophy problem where it's about ethics. And so there's a train running down the tracks and it's going to run over four people. But you are standing ahead of those four people next to a switch. And if you throw the switch, then the train will go off the track of killing four people, but it's still going to kill one other person. And so the trolley problem is, should you kill the four people or the one person? Well, most people would say, well, you kill the one person.

But the thing is, you are actively choosing to kill a person. If you don't throw the switch, you just like watch it happen. You might not technically be at fault. But if you do throw the switch, you're definitely at fault. And there are variations on the trolley problem that are like, get progress. aggressively more hilarious and dark. Like, you're on a bridge, on a footpath over the train tracks, and the train is barreling down the tracks. And if you push this rather large person down in front of the train, you'll kill that person,

but stop it from killing the other people down the track should you push a person in front of the train? You think the former CEO of Q&X can get us through this problem? I think so. And Bob. I think Bob is there. And Bob. I mean, that's essential problem with that time of the driving. Who is the train barreling down the tracks right now?

in this metaphor self-driving cars they're barreling down the tracks and they have to decide if they want to kill four people or one person Right like so a car sees Like driving down the street

Child runs into the road The cars only Two courses of action Are run over the child Or veer onto the sidewalk And hit a bunch of pedestrians On the sidewalk Or veer off a cliff

And kill the driver So you're the person that bought the car You expect that this car Is supposed to protect you But is it supposed to protect you? but is it supposed to protect you above all else? Right now, when you buy something, you have a direct relationship with the person you bought it from,

and you expect them to treat you and care about your needs above everybody else's. But now you might buy a thing, and that thing is not going to care about your life as much as it cares about the life of somebody who didn't buy the thing. What if the car just, you know, like the setup, like, welcome, please pick your Wi-Fi network. It just walks you through the troll.

Hello. The darkest user flow of all time. Here's a picture of a child. Here's a picture of you. Who do you like that? Who would you rather? Apple car usage did not increase this quarter because users found the setup to be really, really dark. Pick a password prompt.

What is your hometown? Where did you go to high school and turn it in? Yeah. But that's a central problem. I mean, that's the Tesla crash. Right. I mean, like, these cars are making decisions. There's a study that came out today. These walls are still cracking up.

He's just losing it about the trolley problem. I'm looking at trolley problem illustrations. If you just search for trolley problem and then click images and Google, there's this one artist who's got a lot of, done a lot of good work. Track is heading towards B. If you pull the lever, it'll switch to A. Nobody's on track A. But B has a loop-de-loop after the people. It's called the hedonist trolley problem.

Okay. Well, anyway, sorry. I'm sorry. So that is the car. I should do a podcast just about pictures. Paul describes pictures. Actually, that would be a great podcast. I would listen to that podcast.

Cool. All right. All right, so now we've got to talk about TV. Because that was the other big story that came out today. Wall Street Journal. Blockbuster scoop in the Wall Street Journal. Just an incredibly good story. Just incredibly full of details that are so petty.

So the story is Apple's been trying to get the TV deal forever. I think the earliest date quoted in that story was 2008 or 2009. So ages, they've been trying to get this TV deal. Eddie Q has been meeting with TV networks. Apparently he says things like, wear Apple and just expects people to, like, meet his terms. Doesn't wear socks? This is the best petty detail in the entire thing. He came to a meeting at the Time Warner Center with the CEO of Time Warner,

and, like, literally the amount of petty detail. like overlooking Central Park. All the Time Warner people are in suits, and Qaeda shows up. 10 minutes late. No socks, Hawaiian shirt. And basically says, like, I don't ever want to give you a rate increase, even though rate increases are how you grow your profits. And so they rejected him.

And so over and over and over again, they've been rejected by the TV companies, which is why they don't have this fabled $30 a month streaming service. and now, of course, for the Apple TV, it's a little bit more than a year now, or year-ish, and their whole thing is the future of TV is apps. But we kind of knew, I think Lauren, you and I had this conversation, too, because you reviewed a bunch of rocus.

The Apple TV is basically the world's best roku. It's not a new futuristic product. It's the same feature set as every other streamer out there. Minus, minus Amazon Prime Video, but yeah. Right, because Jeff Bezos was basically like, I don't want to pay your stupid app store tax. Can I just use this as an advice, technical advice podcast? Sometimes I watch TV shows on Netflix.

And I was like, this seems like a cool TV show. Are they still making it? Yes. Oh, there's a new season available that's not on Netflix. And at that point, it's like, well, is it on any services? No, it's like it's in that network specific thing. You've got to do the thing with the cable where you tell them that you have cable. Yeah, but it's really your parents.

The authentication. Your streaming box calls your mom. Wouldn't that be a great... If someone came out with a product that was like, here's where you go to see first-run TV always. I mean, I guess that's the dream. One of the eight things that Apple tried to pull off, one of the things they wanted it was like they wanted on-demand

commercial skippable first-run TV shows as part of the package. And that's like another thing that got rejected because they're like, well, what are you going to give us for that this hugely important, valuable thing? And they're like, eh, we're Apple. Yeah. I mean, they wanted, like, they wanted only specific channels. Yeah. And basically the cable companies were like, no, because they're finding, actually there was a report out earlier this week and Business Insider about skinny bundles and how for people like dish, like the skinny bundle isn't actually working out as well as maybe they thought. thought it might because you either have these cable loyalists who are paying like $90 a month

or whatever or more for the full package or you have people who are going totally a la carte with OTT services and like the in-between stuff isn't really shaken out so far. Well, so a big theme in the Wall Street Journal piece and that the business matter piece was good too. The big theme is the consumers aren't seeing the value of the bundles even though the bundles represent a good value. Right. Consumers don't care.

They just care about shows mostly. They don't care about getting AMC. They care about Mad Men. They don't care about USA. They care about Mr. Robot. What I'm worried is that the 2008 is an old mindset, like a pre-Netflix being your primary way of watching entertainment. And now, right now, the only time I think about networks is when I can't find something. So let me ask you this.

You're like a primary Netflix consumer. And then I also have HBO. The HBO now. So you've got the two ones. Let's say there's a show that you wanted to watch that you could. I'm trying to think of something that's not Netflix. We'll use Mr. Robot as example, right? Mr. Robot's not another.

Actually, really hard to stream Mr. Robot for a show about digital culture. Right. Literally on the after show last night we pointed out that it has screenshots of Torrent folders in it. I feel like Mr. Robot you're like morally obligated to Torrent. too and now it's episode to come out and it's like, if Netflix was like, we don't have zoo,

give us a dollar and you can watch Sue. Would you pay that extra dollar? Totally. So that's, so that, what that gets me to you is, what you've bought is like an interface to entertainment.

Netflix is an interface to entertainment. It has all the things you want. And if it doesn't have things you want, you're actually willing to pay this incremental price. But you're not willing to pay another $8 a month to some other interface. No. Which is,

I think the problem Apple is trying to solve. And you can see how on the Apple, TV they're getting there. The Roku's there because they just have the universal voice search. So then you're like, zoo, and it like brings up all these options. And ideally, now they're doing it with the new Apple TV, they have like single sign on. So you can just like sign into all the cable providers and just like go get everything you want. But I still have to. And the reason I don't do a cable provider because it's like a gamble on like Netflix is a $10 a month gamble that they're going to keep on coming out with things like stranger things. And I'm going to,

and old shows that I want to watch. Like, the cable situation is like a $60 to $100 a month gamble that I'm going to want to watch some first, like, a couple first-run shows. But also sports news. The other problem with the cable app model is paying, you know, the extra bit to go use the cable app. They're all inconsistent about what they actually offer. Right.

Some of them have got full-on-demand libraries. Some of them don't. Some of them are, like, hard to figure out and they suck his app. Some of them are pretty decent. And so, like, the leap from this thing that I know and trust to the siren that's going on behind me, the leap from the thing I know and trust. That's Eddie Q. He's super pissed to you. The thing I have no idea if it's going to be any good is, like, not worth it to me.

Right. Yeah. If I had a very confident, limited cost solution to watching zoo right now, then I probably would go for it. So here's the thing that we came up in the All Street Journal piece today, which I thought was really interesting and kind of borne out by this conversation. you can go get zoo. You can go pirate zoo. Any minimally competent listener of this show can probably figure out how to go to Kickass Torns, which is back and get what they want. But the TV industry is saying, we're not as

threatened by piracy. So when Apple went to the music industry, when Steve Jobs went to the music industry, it's like, we're just doing iTunes. And then later when Spotify, just was like, we're doing this. Eli, it sounds like what you're saying is we need to pirate more so TV feels more threatened. I just I think the threat is there. It's not quite recognized, right? Like the cable bundles are doing well, but the skinny bundles kind of aren't.

And Apple's version of the deals are not as lucrative potentially. I mean, obviously what Apple's saying is give us this really sweetheart deal, but then you'll see the market will explode. And the TV industry is kind of saying, like, we're in the golden age of TV. Why would we? why would we devalue our products just because you think you're going to do a better interface. Oh, another great story from this. You have to read it. I understand the Wall Street Journal is behind a paywall, but this is why you would pay because of these random anecdotes in this piece. At one point, Brian Roberts, the CEO of Comcast, asked to see the new interface. He was like,

yes, well, you can do a cable box. We'll put it out on Comcast. We'll give you everything. What does the interface look like? And they refused to show it to him. He was like, Can you just draw it on the back of a napkin? And all Apple responded with was, it will be the best interface you've ever seen. It'll be huge. It was like basically the Donald Trump, like unbelievably great interface.

You won't even be able to believe it. Make interfaces great again. But what I've been told for ages, like the interface problem is actually solved. Like everybody, every major TV vendor, every set-top box vendor is like, if we just had all the stuff, the interface problem is easy.

Apple has said it to me basically Roku has said it to me Vizio, Samsung they've all said if we just had all the stuff if we had all the deals the interface problem is relatively easy to solve we just show you the stuff you like we show you some stuff that's on live

and we give you some recommendations podcast has even figured out the interface so I don't think the problem is the interface I think the problem is the content so it's just funny Apple's been at this for eight years nine years and the TV industry's to this day is like, no.

Like, we're too powerful and we're not going to cede that power. And then on the flip side, Comcast, Netflix earnings came out. They're doing fine. But one of their big things is Comcast is finally putting Netflix on their X-1 cable box, which is

kind of a big deal. They've refused to do it forever. Are they putting it on the X-1 cable box, or are they building it into the X-1 operating system? You mean the X-1 iPad app that they think is an operating system? Man, that joke never gets old for me. But Comcast's line about it was Netflix has already done to the entertainment industry, everything that it will do.

So, like, we might as well just put it on now. Like, we understand the dynamics of this industry. And if that's where the cable industry is, then, like, how does Apple disrupt it? There are a lot of recurring themes between these past two stories, which, I mean, it's a little bit of a stretch, but hear me out. If they're both true, right, which is, like, a bit, like, if Apple really is shifting its focus, from making a car to making self-driving software. And if Apple is still facing these headwinds and actually getting into quote-unquote real TV,

it shows that they're having trouble, for lack of a better word, disrupting these legacy industries that maybe in a previous era they would have been able to execute on. Right. And I hate to say it, but there was a guy who used to be able to charmingly convince media industries

to do what Apple wanted. with no shoes on. With literally no shoes. Just literally long hair, crazy. Well, the Apple working on original programming, they're going to do one about apps, and they just got the carpool karaoke or whatever. Yeah, they sign the deal to put carpool karaoke.

Like, that's them taking the Xbox, Netflix style. Yeah. It's like, okay, this is what we have to do. But that's just following. That's just. Well, you get some leverage in this world. I guess so.

Can we just talk about how bad of a name Planet of the Apps is? It's pretty bad. I mean... Literally the worst name. It's... That's the joke name that like the screenwriter wrote on the screenplay. Like Planet of the Apps and like underneath it in parentheses it says temporary name. And they're like, oh, that is funny.

But Apple has like a corny sense of humor. Yeah. It's tough for me. I mean like Pixar is like one of the most important companies ever to me. CEO, Steve John. Yeah. Like, it's not impossible for nerdy people to invest in good entertainment. But Apple doesn't seem to know how to do it right now.

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Yeah. They should go to that URL. You should do it right now. This is the best offer code in the history of the podcast. Please pull to the side. No, you're not even supposed to pull the side of the road. Please find the nearest exit and park at the Walmart. Yeah.

Instead of going in the Walmart, let it kill that one person while it's going that direction. Sad got dark. Anyway, stop what you're doing right now, unless you're driving, in which case, as Paul said, pull into a Walmart just to refute commercialism and then go to this website. iDivisesink.com slash verge. If you use promo code Verge, and you're one of this first one hundred, you get a switch for free. If you're buying other stuff, you get 30% off whatever you're buying. So, there's only 500 available.

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I'm doing it. I want some home automation. Yeah. So I can't be one of the first 500. You know this, right? No, I'm not saying I'm excited to enter the content. I'm excited to, like, see if HomeKit could ever actually be a real thing and not just a figment of keynotes. Yeah.

I think this is time, Paul, for a little thing that you do. What's it called? Gadget flavor. What is the flavor of gadgets? Gadget flavor is like, it's like, you know, like how someone has, like, flave. Right? You know, when gadgets are on fleak, they got a hot flave.

Right, right. No, don't do what you're doing. I want you to stop. This is worse than that time I called it the fruit company. This week's gadget flavor is the Cowah Robot R1 first robotic suitcase. By the way, when I was putting it the Rundown, completely

knew that this is what you would pick. Can we talk about the number of robot suitcases that we've seen in the past weeks? There's two very important suitcases. Hotest trend in tech. I like the one that you attach to your butt. Oh, I guess there are three. There are three.

There are two important ones, and there's one that attaches to your butt. Yeah. Well, let's start with the but one. You put a hook on the back of your pants. This is the worst idea. And then... Wait, are they selling the hook, or is it like a special suitcase that goes with that?

Well, probably needs a special handle to hook onto the hook or it would just fall out. It's just the worst idea. And then you can walk through the airport and use your phone and... Your handspring. No, you're holding Starbucks in one hand, phone and the other. What's worse than a cell phone holster? What about a butt holster for your bag? Anyway, go on.

All right. I'm just saying this is one of those ideas that like college students have when they're hammered. And then they woke up and they went to Home Depot. This is called My Hitch. No. No, it's not. Yes, it is. And the women's version is My Lovely Lady Hitch.

Oh, my God. I quit. All right, look, idavisesink.com slash the verge. That's the end of the show. Okay. And then there's a suitcase that you can ride. It's like a segue, but you say. sit down on it.

It's like a little scooter. And what's amazing is this commercial has people. It looks like footage from like the pod racing in episode one. Like they are zooming through this airport and they are definitely going to get tackled by security. Does it fit in the overhead bin? I don't know. Probably. Yeah.

It looks like it. I mean, if you're going to ride it on an airport, it has to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's amazing. It's amazing. Just, and everybody's having so much fun.

That's on Indiegogo. It's called... Is it funded up? Modo bag. That's fine. If it's not funded that I'm quitting... I'm quitting the internet again. Come up here.

We have one job. It's totally funded. Okay. Yeah. And then there's the third one. Which is my gadget flavor pick of the week. Cowarobah R1. It's a regular suitcase on four wheels

and you're rolling around. And then you're like, you know what? I'm tired of dragging this. Let go. It's got little wheels in the bottom that like... down onto the ground and it starts rolling itself and it follows you around.

This is what I want. Also, you can like beck in it. You can say, hey, come to me, suitcase. It also's got like GPS. How does it know where you are? Does it like follow your phone? So you know how the handle stays extended?

The sensors are in there. It watches you from the handle. Let me ask you what the future is. How does it not start following someone else? Well, are you... I have no idea. To be honest. Never go to the airport with your identical twin.

Yeah. I mean, this is basically Like, what if instead of a small child who got lost to the airport, it was all of your belonging? Also, if it goes, you know, like, it's got a geo fence. So, like, if it goes a certain distance away from you, like, you leave in a car, it will, like, notify you and show you on the map where it's at. It also has a huge battery to power the robotic stuff, but you can use that to charge. This is the dream. Devices.

Can you carry this on? Also funded on Indiegogo. I got to say. Yeah, and you can take out the battery to put it through security. I got to say. given the choice between a hitch for your butt my hitch or a lady hitch and a robot dog suitcase

come on the robot dog but what about a car suitcase or like a segue suitcase let me ask you this if the robot suitcase has to choose between killing a child which one would have the right choice That's the kind of morals that you can afford when you raise $114,000 on Indigo. That's how much that's all they need?

Well, Indiegogo, you know, they do it like flexible goal. I mean, Indiegogo, a lot of Indiegogos are just to like show interest to investors. Right. Most, and a lot of Kickstarter is like that too. Hardly any of these for like something this complicated. I'm sure my hitch can be funded like $15. Then my hitch people, like, I can make that product. but I don't want to

I want one of those Boston dynamic robots to carry my luggage Lauren's got a big dog just like banging through the airport That thing is terrifying Everyone would move out of the way You would never be late for a flight You would just be like

The seas would part at the airport Why didn't Lauren make her flight? Well she brought a weaponized dog suitcase to the airport Oh not the dog I'm thinking of the human What if the human was just carrying me Right?

Oh, my God. Yes. Well, I got to say, the fact that robotic suitcases were a major circuit breaker theme for the past 12 days or so, that's why Circuit Breaker exists. Exactly. So that we can catch these trends in the upswing. The heart of the matter. Let's move on.

We only have a few minutes left. We spend all that time on Apple. So it's only fair. I verge. Am I right? It's all true. We end. We got to talk about Google.

had some earnings, Amazon had some earnings, Facebook, Twitter, the rest of them had some earnings. Here's what I'll say. Just Google earnings literally were breaking as we started recording here. Google did extraordinarily well. I think people forget Google's a massive company that reorganized itself in this thing called Alphabet. So inside of Google, Google made $21 billion in revenue. They made $5-ish billion in profit. And then all the other stuff. This is Google, not Alphabet. Google, not Alphabet. Literally everything else in Alphabet is categorized as other bets, which has got to just make them feel great. And everyone's super excited because other bets lost money, but lost money slower than they

made a little money, which they still lost like $800 million. But a little bit, they lost a little bit slower. It's like being a middle child, an other bet. Yeah, you're the other bet. I hope you're good at something because your brother is great. And that one's the baby. Right. We know you're old.

We've got smart on luck. You're another bet. Law school, I think he can handle it. Why don't you try something else? That's terrible. Yeah, and we're going to, the little one, we're just going to care for her the whole time. I'm not a middle child. I'm the baby.

So that's how my parents feel about me. Okay. My sister is like the smart one. I'm the one who tells jokes about butt luggage for an hour. week. You know what? You're the Niantic.

What's that? They Google incubated them. They spun me off. They spun you off. They're like, we're mostly doctors here. So if you want to do that Pokemon thing, you just go off. You just get it done.

You are being too modest. You're also a lawyer. I mean... Oh, but I was such a bad lawyer. Let's like not discuss that. Here's what I'll say about other bets. Nest. is inside of other bats.

Nest had, the drama, you know, it continues. They put out their outdoor camera. We're all very happy for them. It took them four years, but they wanted to bridge the camera. The Nest service went down this week in the middle of a heat wave. The thermostat still worked, but all the apps were, like, not functional. That's not a good one. They put out an Apple Watch app.

Oh, they put out an Apple Watch app. You can now control that broken thermostat from your wrist. But the thermostat kept, because before they've had outages where the thermostat does not do anything. Yes, but that was early days. They haven't had one of those around. Okay. But this time the nest service. There was like a pet, like an automatic pet feeder.

Yeah. Internet of Things thing that went down and was literally not dispensing food to pets. It was just terrifying. Yeah. If you think about it. Internet of Things. Put a chip in it. See what happens.

I know. Sorry your cat died. Hashtag Internet of Things. So there's Google. There was not a lot of, like, other Google news inside of these earnings. They did much better than, you know, people thought they were going to do. They continued to print money. You compare that to Facebook, which also did outstanding. And also, I think the big quote there from Zuckerberg was, we see video as a primary part of every platform we have.

And if you're looking at Facebook lately, you see they're putting video everywhere. Video is where the advertising money is going. It's like that's where it all is. It's where the audience is going. Google owns YouTube. I just think about this always in terms of icons on the home screen. So Google tends to control distribution through your browser icon, right? You open up a browser on your phone.

You tend to search. It's the primary thing you do there. And then you click on a YouTube link and then half the time it launched the YouTube app and then half the time it plays. Here's this thing in the web. And you're not logged in to your YouTube Red accounts. You've got to watch the ad. Oh, man. It's a whole mess.

But Google owns, obviously, I think they own distribution through the browser icon. They obviously own YouTube, and most people have the YouTube icon. Facebook obviously has Facebook icon, the Instagram icon, the messenger icon. They're all doing extraordinarily well. And then there's Twitter, which just doing real bad. Yeah. And it's been quarter after quarter, even with Dorsey back at the helm, just doing real bad. They added just a paltry number of users.

Yeah. And they put out an ad campaign that's like, here's what Twitter is. I think Ashley wrote a story that's like Twitter is 10 years old and still trying to tell people what it is. Like Nick Stats headline was Twitter is adding users. But like, that's literally a headline that they are managing to continue to add and not lose users at this point. They added 3 million users on top of 310. Like they're just done growing. And like they're just, I have no idea what?

they're going to do. They have to pivot into something else. They have to make video happen. They have to make these, like, you know, live stream partnerships a real part of the product and not a random thing you might be lucky to see in your feed because, like, what they're doing right now is not sustainable. But Twitter is still incredibly vital. That's, except for the, you know, right, it dominates the whole news cycle. Yeah. I can't, I'm assuming all of us and most of our listeners have been watching the conventions for past two weeks. I can't imagine watching these things without Twitter open on my phone. Dude, I had to watch

last night, DNC, President Obama's speech on the plane and I didn't buy the Wi-Fi, so I didn't have Twitter during the speech, and I did not know what to do. I was just like, I was literally just holding the phone in my hand off because that's how you watch TV now. Are we just media elite

bubble New Yorkers? San Francisco's? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think, I think during events like these, like the DNC and the RNC, if you actually follow the hashtags and you kind of, you know, you're not just paying attention to your own echo chamber of media wonks, you see that there are a lot of people, a lot of people that are using it for those specific events, like those moments in time.

But it is this weird feeling of like, like, you're sitting watching it and you're like, this, you know, this is ridiculous, right? This is ridiculous. It's like, you used to look around. and look at your friend sitting around your living room and sort of, you know, right, right? And now it's like, that's what Twitter is. And if you don't have that, you're like,

I'm pretty sure this is ridiculous. Or like, I'm pretty sure this is the most monumental speech ever. And you just have no way to kind of like, I don't know, reaffirm your own interpretation of the live media that is happening. Ridiculous for everyone or just me. Well, so this is what Twitter is, yeah, that's your website. But why, if that is the case,

because I agree that that is exactly what Twitter's great at, Shouldn't they have a huge upswing right now during the heat of an election season? No, because their sign-up is hard. I mean, this is why they're doing this brand campaign. People, they put out this research for this new ad, like this blog post, and they're like, people think in order to use Twitter, you constantly have to tweet or you have to tweet once a day or something. But now their ads are like, you just get to see what's happening. And so that's why they're investing in, right, they're streaming the conventions.

And have you guys looked at how they're doing convention streaming? It's actually really slick. Right? Yeah, I try using it. But it was a little bit annoying. Well, it's because it's not your feed. It's like the hashtag. That's exactly why.

So you push the button. Like you open the Twitter app on your phone and says, watch the NC or whatever. You push it. The live stream opens and then a stream of tweets happens underneath it. So they're combining that sort of first screen, second screen experience. They are going to stream a bunch of football games. They're talking to every other sports league. They got rights to a bunch of other stuff.

They know that live events are where they belong. And I think what they're going to do is just say, like, you don't have to tweet. Like, there's no write-a-tweet mode in that live stream view. Can I just say, I know that I link to this story, like, once every six months and people are tired of me talking about it. But in January of 2012, I went to the dive into media conference, and then CEO Dick Costolo was, on stage and I said that what Twitter needs to do is become a broadcasting social network and stop trying to be a social network and they're still trying to figure it out. They had the idea four years ago that think of us as a new kind of broadcasting network that happens to be a little

bit social and they still haven't figured it out. Yeah, but they're getting there. So this seems like this will be the first year with like also more sports. with the election. I don't like that. I want a tweet. Yeah, it's weird. But their problem is... If you think about Twitch chat, YouTube chat,

like these are services that are designed for watching video while you also see other people chatting. But those are like small communities. Like Twitter's... Their problems are a big community. It's just interesting. There is a whole language to Twitter. I mean, we take it so much for granted,

but for someone who's just signing up for Twitter and you're explaining to them hashtags and ad signs and putting the period before the ad signs that your mutual friends can see it. And then, you know, there's going to be a while you're away. But then there are moments and all this stuff. And then coupled with the harassment problems they're having,

which, you know, people may sort of know about peripherally if they're not on Twitter as much as we are. And it's like, people are probably thinking, like, what's the value? Like, why should I spend some, why should I invest so much time and getting to learn this? Especially when every news organization is super committed to aggregating the best of Twitter and showing it to you all the time. That is true.

Oh, that's why you... Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Like, why would you bother? You don't need to sign up to see more tweets because you see the tweets right there. Yeah, like, Donald Trump, like, blows his nose, and everyone's like, guess what he tweeted?

And it's, he's like, sad. Oh, hey, look what just happened in the alphabet earning call. Google sold 30 million Chromecasts. Whoa. And it was 25 million in May, so these new Chromecasts are flying off the shelf. Look at that. Good job, Google.

Is that Chromecast audio, too, included in that? Just Chromecast devices. It's probably everything all combined. Cadillac, the new CT6, which is an extraordinarily expensive car, but the new CT6, every super fancy luxury car has like a backseat experience now because they assume that someone else would drive it for you. So it's got monitors in the backseat and it's got an HTML jack, and they're putting Chromecasts in there.

And as part of the sales process, the salespeople teach you how to use the Chromecast in the car. Which like they're training their dealers on like what a Chromecast can do because it's such a thing I thought backseat screens were for kids They are, but if you're buying a Cadillac CT6 they might be for you Yeah, because you know something that's a buyer to you because Leroy your chauffeur I've always wanted to have a driver driving the car LeRoy Yeah, it's came up the name cool, feel like a good name, you know

But we should talk about Google's sort of hardware game right now because Chromebooks are doing extraordinarily well The Chromecasts are doing extraordinary well The S7 is doing extraordinary as an Android phone. At some point, Google's going to have to pull this all together and actually make that reel for them, don't you think? Or are they just going to keep giving an operating system

way for free all the time? Like, make what real? You don't think they're going to do a version of, like, the Chromebook pixel that is actually accessible. You don't think they're going to make their own phone, which they've been rumored to do forever, outside of sort of the Nexus program.

I feel like we've talked about that, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's just they're in a moment. Their platforms are doing extraordinarily long. They are doing a phone in Project Aura, but that's really experimental. I think they're not going to make a pixel for an affordable pixel because that would piss off the vendors who would just say, screw that, I'm going to Windows if you're going to compete with me.

But the latest rumor is they're going to be making their own smart watches. Oh, yeah. Wait, why I actually don't know why any of these vendors would go to Windows if what they're selling are Chromebooks, right? The value of the Chromebook is that it's simpler, school. are buying tons of them. The schools don't want to support and maintain Windows. But why would they, like, why would they compete with Google on the low end if they could not compete with Microsoft on the low end? Like, they can make a good computer cheaper with

Chrome OS, but if they have to compete directly with Google at that low margin, low end, then they'll be like, well, we should just go with Windows because then we don't have to compete with Microsoft. Like, I don't know. It seems to me, like, that is, like, we always, everybody always worried when Microsoft started making the surface that all their OEMs would run away and they'd be pissed about it. And that didn't happen. And I think that's partially because the service is a relatively expensive device.

I think that calculus is way different when you get under $500. Yeah, that makes sense. I just think as they move Android onto ChromeOS, which is, I know, Deeter, you have a pixel that can do it, right? I have a pixel an R11 and a flip, so come at me.

I hate you. Can I have one? Can I have one of this? those things, please. I think as that happens, I just think the Google as a platform vendor will kind of like come into more focus. And that's like, I think that's tremendously exciting. I think Windows, Windows as a platform has like found where it belongs. I think the surface is very popular, but it's not going to be, because it doesn't have a mobile component, it's just kind of fixed in time where it is. Obviously, Apple's got its platform strategy the way it is. But having another sort of unified desktop to mobile experience is really interesting to me.

And I don't think Google can get there unless they start making some of their own products. I would love more Google products, I guess. Cool. I just think it's interesting. All right. Let's talk about Amazon. We've clearly squeezed everything out of this weekend. Oops.

We're Apple. Yeah. Yeah. But it would be cool. And I think more competition in the market's good anyway. Lauren, do you know what's going on with Amazon? Are you going to read this article that just went up the same way I am? Amazon just hit, by the way, for the listener.

I'm just going to read it. They posted a profit of $857 million, right? That never happens. That was a year over year. That was an 832% jump, and their sales were up 31% from the previous quarter. So this is, so it used to be, like, for a while, you know, it was like, Amazon doesn't make money, except for Amazon Web Services, AWS, right? Like, they make a lot of money, and that's great, whatever.

But now it's actually like, and that's still highly profitable, but now it's like Amazon is actually making real money. And they don't want to. Usually they take every, they could always make money. Like the story is they could flip the switch, make money. But Bezos in particular is like, we're plowing all that money back in R&D or new products. But I guess they were like, well, the phone didn't work. This drone thing's a lark.

Yeah. They built a big office. Amazon. They built a big office. I will say we reviewed their Blue phone. And Dan actually kind of liked it. I reviewed it. It was Paul.

Yeah. And it's not, Blue's been making phones apparently for a while. Yeah. Amazon puts ads on it and gives you a $50 discount. And it's just as great and bad as that sounds. Like, you literally, every time you unlock the screen, there's a new ad on it, basically. And it's either like a swipe to dismiss that or a literally full screen. So it's like you picked up somebody else's phone and that person liked looking at an ad of,

I get a lot of fitness stuff. There's like this protein powder they want me to buy or like a lady who runs around in headphones. Like I don't want headphones that I can run in for sure. So I don't know who they think I am. They're not very targeted. But yeah, it's a great product. And $50 cheaper. It's kind of crazy that you can get a phone that.

good for $60. Yeah. Sorry that I didn't know that you reviewed it. That's okay. It's okay. That's rare that I, but Dan helped a lot also. I probably looked at just a photos. Paul, tell me a lie about your lead in the book that you've been reading and what

they said about. Oh, yeah. Kevin Kelly wrote a new book, I think it's called The Inevitable. And it's like 12 trends that he sees that will like keep on progressing. And one of the trends he talks about is that like you, you kind of go away from. ownership of things towards like renting or just

you like pay for or somehow obtain access temporarily to things and so I thought this was kind of that phone but like in the future you can imagine like you kind of just like wake up and you just decide you want a certain set of gadgets and tools

for the day and content right and that comes into your life through like I don't know a tube yeah and then you use that, and then you dump it into the other tube at the end of the day. And I feel like this phone having ads on it and being really good for how cheap it is, it's like I just felt like I was a little bit living that future. At some point, someone's got, what are the ads for?

The ads are to make you buy something or rent something for another final time. Right. But see, think about Amazon. Amazon's really well positioned there because they have so many people signed up for Prime. for, well, the cloud services obviously makes a lot of money. These are like recurring services, but I would love like Amazon Instant where it's like, or what's

called Amazon Now? Man, so many services. Where if they brought me something and then I used it and then they took it back. Yeah. What would that look like? Oh. I don't know. That's a weird. Like what, though? Because a lot of what they're pushing these days with some, well, I shouldn't say

a lot, but they push a lot of consumable goods, right? That's mostly what it is. Right, you push the button and Well, like, let's say you wanted to rent a camera. Like, it's a special occasion, so you want to have a decent camera. So you rent. So they bring you a camera. Yeah, you send it back.

With all the battery and everything's all ready to go. You use it. That's interesting. You send it back. I will say, here's my, we got to wrap up, but here's my counter. Yesterday, we were at the end of we were taping the Mr. Robot after show, which I will hype in a minute. But Coradano, who's one of the writers and the technology producer on the show, was talking about within that show, there was a VCR moment where they were. They watched an old tape.

And he's like, that effect. We actually got it by putting it on a tape, pulling the tape out, and crinkling it. And he's like showing it to us the physical tape. And we were all just holding a VHS cassette and being like, oh, these were awesome because they were like real. And like there's all this physical experience around the media. And then we had a whole conversation about like vinyl on this. But there's something to it. There's like there's that world, but there's also the I have stuff world.

And he talks about stuff like that in the book as well, that that you have a certain type of collector that goes after a kind of feeling of scarcity. Yeah. I still actually, I still collect actual books. And like anecdotally, my chances of finishing a book on Kindle versus finishing the hardcover book.

It's much higher with a physical book. I finish physical books. And I like, put them on the shelf and I'm like, I finished that book. I read that. And then like, I download a bunch of stuff to Kindle

and I'm like, I'm totally going to read this book. I just don't finish. It's weird. Yeah. Anyway. What is the nature of reality? That on the next Vergecast, next week.

Nice. Stay tuned. It's some time on Friday. He's not calling these trends good or bad or right or wrong. He's just saying this is where things are going towards. Here's what I'll, as a counterpoint to that, Emily interviewed Werner Herzog. It's up on the Verge today. And he just discussed for a while, Pokemon Go and whether it should require physical violence.

It's fantastic. It is the craziest interview we've done a long time. in beautiful photos. So look at that. That is a veritcast for the week. If you have not gotten enough of these people talking, you can listen to us talk in various other ways. Lauren has a great podcast that she unceremoniously booted me from this week to talk about.

Oh, we didn't talk about Yahoo. But who gives a shit about Yahoo, except for the people who want to listen to Kara talk about it because she's the only person in the world who's interesting about Yahoo. So listen to Too Embarrass to Ask with Lauren and Kara. you guys got deep in the eye this week, I imagine. So Kara basically has been hiding out in Yahoo's air vents for the past 20 years. And so I had to take this opportunity to interview her and ask her every question you could possibly ask about Yahoo. And it was great.

It comes out this Friday. But I did end up booting Nealai off the show and we need to reschedule because I really, like, I really want you to come on. But I want you to talk about the stuff that like gets the people going. But by the people, I mean Neelai. I want you to talk about the stuff that gets Neelai going. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be so fun. I've been trying to have a thought about Yahoo for so long.

And I think I'm close to one, but it's just, it's not really a thought yet. Anyway, listen to Lawrence podcast, too embarrassed ass. It's wonderful. Also on the recode side, Kara has a podcast, Recode Decode, Peter Kafka has a podcast, Recode Media, which is wonderful. On the verge side of the radio house, the house of radio that we built here at Vox Media. On the ship. on our ship two admirals

of Coxswain and a guy with the steering wheel Chris I've forgotten all the podcast now Chris Plant does What's Tech which is wonderful I think he did what is podcast this week which is like very meta very cool with Alex Goldman from Reply Hall

Yep so that's a great one Sorry I just had to get that in there Emily and Liz have Virg ESP Entertainment and side podcast and sadly control athlete was off this week because Walt's on vacation but we'll be back And I'm starting a new podcast called A Thousand Words or Describe Pictures. That's going to be her most popular podcast in like a week.

It's just Paul describing various Google image searches. All right. That's it. Leave us, you know, the right number of stars in iTunes. You can tweet at us. I'm at Reckless. Paul's at Future Paul. Lauren's at Lauren Good.

Deeter's at Backlon. I want to know your answer to the trolley problem. Or send your illustrations of the trolley problem to Paul. Yeah. Thanks to iDevices, unofficial, official, official, unofficial sponsor of Cesar Vodka. And you can get, if you're one of the first 500, you can get a free switch. Idevices inc.com slash verge. Thanks, everybody. Rock and roll. Cut through the night. Paul. Paul. Catchphrases.