The Viall Files - E10 Body Positivity with Sophia Esperanza and Courtney Granberry

Episode Date: March 6, 2019

I'm joined by models Sophia Esperanza and Courtney Granberry this week to talk about body positivity. How can we be more accepting of ourselves and our partners? Sophia opens up about the breast implants she got when she was 18, we get into that insane episode of The Bachelor and applaud Colton’s fence jump (finally!), and we answer a fan question about “type.” I think you’re really going to like this one. Share it with a man who needs to hear it, too.Send us your sex and dating questions at [e-mail]. We’d love to have you on the show!Come to our living taping with Ashley Iaconetti on March 31st! https://web.ovationtix.com/trs/pe.c/10387186Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're crazy. What's up, guys? What's up? What's up, guys? And then I got a note from a review saying, we know that you don't want to say, hey, guys, stop talking about what I'm doing right now. Ooh. Yeah. Feedback is awesome. There's feedback for everything. Anyways, thanks for tuning in.

You know, we've done so many episodes now. 10? 11? 10. 10. Lucky number. Is 10 a lucky number? We'll make episodes now. 10? 11? 10. 10. Lucky number. Is 10 a lucky number? We'll make it one. It can be.

Great. Yeah, I'm excited about this episode. I'm excited about every episode, but I'm really excited about this one. We are always trying to get new ideas based off of conversations we've had in the past. in the past. And we've had some conversations about things like body issues or just callers coming in asking about, you know, dating and, you know, a conversation came up about, you know, something that referred to their weight or their body. And we thought it'd be a really interesting conversation to talk about body issues and especially when it comes to dating and the perception that, you know, men and women have and, and things we should or shouldn't say early on or ever in a relationship.

I know that I've, I've, I've put my foot in my mouth and it's affected my relationships in the past when commenting on my girlfriend's body. I'll tell the story later. But yeah, so I have two wonderful guest co-hosts with me today, Courtney and Sophia. They're also models, if you can't tell if you're watching on YouTube. Also, you know, this podcast is also a way for just me to meet women, if you haven't figured it out. Oh, that's you. Look at that. Oh my gosh oh yeah sick so i decided to talk about body issues and ask a couple models to show up that's that's how i do

it um anyways and so they obviously uh or you i mean so you guys uh talk about um or or I mean every day people are commenting on your bodies, have opinions on your bodies. I'm assuming that's got to be very interesting. So I thought you both would bring interesting points of view to this conversation and we could just get into that. You two are models. I mean I guess what, I mean i'll let you guys kind of take over in terms of like how has your bodies and dating and like how does it affected you guys um tell me about what you guys

are doing and and stuff like that well we have what what what sam well i don't know like it's that's the thing here's the thing it's just like i don't know how to segue that and like like, you know, we're, I think we're going to have a lot of conversations about like, what's the best way to talk about bodies, especially from a guy's point of view to women. And so like, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't want to step on that. So like, go ahead. No, it's fair. I think, I think what Nick was saying before the episode was, as a guy, it's a little bit harder to ask these questions. And he wanted to know your point of view.

I was just giggling because it was a go. Yeah. Well, we actually have a similar, or not similar. We have the same, what's our job? We work at one of our same jobs. We're the same client. We're the same client. We call them client?

We call them client. Yeah, I know. It's still weird. We work for the same our same jobs. We're the same client. We're the same client. We call them client? Yeah, I know. It seems a little weird. We work for the same person. Yeah. I just noticed these have… Oh, no, they don't. That's just a hole.

Okay. Sorry. Cute. Thumb holes for my jacket. But yeah, we met on set at one of our clients for modeling. And it's really cool because the inclusion, it's like you have a spectrum of, you know, every kind of body type really with this specific client. And so it was really cool to be able to not just be so segregated by body type for jobs,

you know, like obviously a lot of companies are like, okay, you know, you have, you have plus, plus and then you have this and you have this but it's cool when it's just all kind of yeah one thing and you get to learn a lot from each other and kind of I think when you are segregated in general and any like walk of life it does create kind of like sometimes tension or like right the ability to not understand the other side of you know the way and. And then all you're hearing is rhetoric from people who are like you. So it's good to be able to mix and to talk and to share ideas and things like that. Yeah. And for those who aren't watching on YouTube and listening on, say, Spotify or iTunes. Courtney is a, how would you call it?

A curve model. Curve model. I want to get into that because I have so many questions yeah we'll talk I got curves y'all Sophia is more traditional

I don't yeah what do we call what do we say straight I mean I don't know main

well I could do you think you don't have curves I'm kind of on the cusp of being like petite I mean I'm definitely short so I'm not the average 5'7 5'8 5'10 I'm barely 5' the cusp of being like petite. I mean, I'm definitely short. So I'm not the average 5'7", 5'8", 5'10".

I'm barely 5'6". Can I say that? Don't tell. I don't know how many booking agents listen. Right. Awesome. You'd be surprised. My audience is like 93% women.

If I stretch, I can gain an inch. That's why she wears boots. All day. And secrets out. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I guess in that sense, I'm, yeah, I'm not the average height for a model. But I am, I'm very petite. So, my measurements are probably, like, on the other end of the spectrum in terms of, like, height and everything. So, I know that when it comes to, like, the, like, you know, Courtney, like, I have so many questions about that in terms of height and everything. So I know that when it comes to the body,

I have so many questions about that in terms of the curve model or the traditional plus size model. I talk about my sister, Maria, for those who don't know, she's 6'2", she played basketball, and growing up, and she's a beautiful,

perfectly proportioned person. And her whole life growing up, people would come up to her and say, and mostly because she's a beautiful perfectly proportioned person and her whole life growing up people would come up to her and say and mostly because she's six two and as a woman that's very tall they would go wow you're so big right that fucked her up a lot yeah a little bit or a bit and they had you know i'll bring maria on a future episode it affected like you know some eating problems and just body complex issues. How is that? Like, I feel like the kind of the plus size models, it's like. Well, right.

Because, you know, I feel like the whole plus size can have like a negative connotation. But really, it's just like comfortability. Like for me, I'm a size 12. And so basically anything. What's that mean? Okay. So like my pants size or dress size is a 12. Okay.

Okay. And what's considered. Okay. Just to clarify. What's considered. What's the cost of curve delight plus? That's what I was just about to say, girl. mean? Okay. So like my pants size or dress size is a 12. Okay. And what's considered… Okay. Just to clarify. What's considered… What's the cost of curved to like plus? That's what I was just about to say, girl. Yes.

Okay. So basically anything over a 6. A size 6 is considered plus. But if you see a girl who's a 6, like that doesn't even register as plus. So it's so interesting because I feel like the in-between sizes are considered curve. Yeah. And so I don't know, it's really tricky because- When does it become plus? What size?

I think it's like when you start getting to the 14, 18 plus. But it's so interesting because it's like, I was telling you guys earlier, like when I identified, like, hey, I'm a model and people were like, oh, well, like, what do you do? And I'm like, I'm a model. And so I have to like follow up with saying I'm a plus model. Like, it ridiculous are you offended by that does it bother you am I I'm offended that I have to explain because I'm not traditionally skinny that I'm a model but I'm not offended by the word plus okay do you know what I mean yeah yeah so I'm cool with it like you know like this I'm happy with my body and I really believe that I've had so much success because I'm like totally chill with everything I got going on I feel like you have a lot going on you know thank you like you know yeah I mean it's so I when I was uh I'll tell a story from dating it's just like I do have a lot of questions too because

as from guys guys are tend to be like from a stereotype of they think visually in terms of we, we see women and we, in a way, objectify what we're seeing early on. And I got myself into a bit of trouble. Well, I was someone I, finding a cold someone. So in, in, in relationship I had, I won't put a timestamp on it, but I was in early in this relationship. And it was the first time we got physical. First time we had sex.

Great. That's what physical means. Exactly. We did a bunch of push-ups. Right, right. Nice. And by anyone's standards, she is stunningly beautiful with a body that I would think, and I know this, a lot of people complimented her on

her body, the type of body that the average woman would really want, you know? Um, and so I just thought she was stunning, whatever. So we're, we're hooking up. We, we, we just got done. Great, great sex. It was really, really just, this is great. Early on in the relationship. And, you know, prior to, prior to like, again, this is from my point of view. Prior to hooking up, I've, you know, have told him, you are, you know, wow, you're beautiful. Or, wow, you're just, you know, like I'm always thinking I'm complimenting. It wasn't like I was trying to compliment her. I was just emoting how I was looking at her.

Yeah, how you actually feel, yeah. It's, whew. Wow. You are. And then, so we, we hook up and I'm kind of also a smart ass. I put my foot in my mouth and sometimes the attempt to, yeah, here we go. Um, and so we're, we're in bed, we're lying with our clothes off and I, I see a petted bra and I kind of joke with her because in her, like she, she has a great butt. Like, so her, I don't know. She's got a great butt. I mean, amazing. It's like literally the, it's the best, but it's the best ever. Right. And her, her boobs also perfect, not necessarily large. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so I saw the padded bra and I was just like,

right yeah yeah and so I saw the pet a bra and I was just like and this is early on our relationship so the joke was uh it's a little bit dishonest you know because the first time I met her so I tell you sorry the first time I met her okay she was wearing this outfit I'm not just like I'm not like I'm just being honest the first time I met her she was wearing an outfit that my first thought was like the, one of the first things I noticed was she was, she was wearing a V cut with a bra and just, it was very busty. And I noticed that and it looked like she had large boobs. Right. And so that was just a thought ingrained in my head. So the first time we hook up, I see the bra and I make this kind of joke saying the first time I saw you, I thought this and here I'm thinking the whole time, it doesn't matter because you were gorgeous. But I made this joke referencing her bra. So now at the time she's

laughing, she's like laughing it off. I think it's a fun joke. Fast forward like a week, she meets some of my friends for the first time. My buddy at the time was dating, he was dating and he was dating a couple, you know, he's early in the dating process and there's two girls he liked. Right. And he was just kind of, he's a funny guy speaking freely. It's the first time he, he met my girlfriend and he makes this joke about like, well, one of them, she just has really great boobs and I'm really, I'm a boob guy, whatever. And I probably made some joke of like, yeah, well, boobs are pretty great. You know, just kind of a passing comment, you know, like day later she like tells me how like like hearing that

conversation she was like mortified and felt like and then like I think she had like we started having conversations she asked me about people I had dated in the past right so she's like looking at pictures some of them Right. Going crazy. Some of them had augmented their breasts or some of them just had large. And she just told me how it made her feel terrible at the time.

And I was just like, babe, I am. Yeah. I am. I felt terrible. I am so sorry. It's the space that you're in though. Like after you have sex,

it's like that's a very vulnerable space. Like maybe that's not the time. No, I'm not. I'm just kidding. I was just like i'm so like i am so like you are stunning and beautiful and etc etc and i was just like i if i had known from comedy though i feel like i feel like you have like a good like sense of humor and i feel like if someone else were like you know had that same thing they'd understand that like for me if

i heard that i i'm so comfortable with yeah myself and even the things that make me feel insecure at times I'm even you know comfortable with those things that I would probably joke back at you I'd be like oh well I thought this you know that's kind of my point I wasn't pointing in any direction I was like I was like

oh no but that's kind of my point is I didn't realize. And I think sometimes guys can, you never, even men and women, you never really know, especially early on, even if you think someone is, I think that's the point is just like, it doesn't matter what you look like or what people think you look like. Everyone has these insecurities. Absolutely.

This never was let down in a relationship. It didn't matter in that moment how apologetic I was. I mean, I got accused of being a body shamer anytime we fought. It was like a whole thing. Oh, wow. Okay, so that's a little far. Yeah. That's a whole other thing in the relationship.

But the point is, is that even if she was cool about it, and even if she got over it, here am I thinking I'm dating this, in my head, just physical 10, you know, like just beautiful. And she's so beautiful. I have the freedom to joke about these things. Clearly I did not. And clearly she had her own issues and I don't know where they came from or whatnot, but that was kind of the point of like, as men, I feel like I, and the lesson learned, like I really need to be more conscious about like, not assuming that, you know, and I date these other women where I think they're beautiful. And like you, I have these conversations, you learn about some of the things that we're

all insecure about and people just never think about in terms of our bodies. I think it's intention too, though, you know, you know, I don't know. I don't feel like, I mean, it just depends on who's making the joke and what time. I don't know. I think people can be real sensitive. Yeah. Sure. Coming from somebody who, when I was 18, I got breast implants. I was 18, super in a different head space.

Hormones are going crazy, right? Like I'm looking at the Kardashians. No, I'm just kidding. I'm looking at, you know, like the ideal spectrum of beauty or what the standard was at that time on Instagram. And that was like a very, it was kind of when Instagram was fresh, I guess. And so I'm looking at all these bodies on Instagram. And so, yeah, it's pressure from that, I guess. But I'd like to think I was a little bit stronger than that. In the end, it was my decision. I don't blame anybody for it. But I got it done. I went from basically a B to a double D overnight.

Thought it was going to make me feel way more confident. And for the next six years, I was never more insecure about my boobs than I had been when I had breast implants. So I'd always kind of hide them and always wear turtlenecks. I'm still wearing a turtleneck, actually. But I'd always hide them. And, you know, you want to show them off when you get them right. Most people, I guess. And I became like a hermit with my chest. And so I hated them with modeling. It was weird. Working out was weird. And it was bigger than my head. I felt like I'd look at my head and I'd be like, what are these? And so.

You probably became fixated. It probably got bigger than they. Right. Exactly. And so, and I'm already a really small person. So, I mean, it just didn't even fit. So, in December or November of last year, I went through basically the first step of my explant process. Where, because my skin was stretched out for so long, taking them out completely wasn't really an option. Because the skin would be so stretched out. It would, you know, then just have like a lot to go back on. A lot of skin would be like… It would be like, I guess… like i guess like what's the word stretched out and then like deflated deflated is what i'm looking for and so um i have to go in two steps one getting the smallest implant

put in possible like that exists basically just for structure and then after three to four years i can completely take them out when the skin is shrunk back over that and everything's gone amazing and i feel so much more comfortable and i'm just ready to get back to that first place that I was from the beginning, which is just my natural, normal cup size. But I think coming from somebody who's had all those things, even being maybe, you know, your ex-girlfriend who maybe, maybe she wished she had bigger breasts and maybe she even has thought about putting words in her mouth, but maybe know she thought about doing that that's not always the rainbow you know it's not not always think that comes from too because I think you're right because like again like they might not have

been large but perfectly shaped in the sense that like um but clearly it came from somewhere even for her or when you were 18 I mean mean, I was just insecure all around. I was just not happy. I was eating terrible foods. I was eating fast food all the time. I was watching nothing but, you know, trash TV. And I was… It's the media.

Yeah. I mean, it was just immersing myself in everything that wasn't real. I wasn't going outside. I was just being chaotic. And so I think, yeah, you're not going to make rational decisions. And you're going to search for external things to make you happy. Because internally, you are so not okay. But once we kind of…

Sometimes it takes doing all those external things to then go, wait, that's not what does anything for ourselves. You have to do some internal… And it's just like little girl issues. Like you grow up and like you're watching TV. Like for me, like I never saw like girls who look like me on TV. Like none of the Barbies look like me right you know what i mean so luckily had a really great father and a really great older brother who were like no you're beautiful like

you're good like don't worry about it but if not like i'm sure there's so many girls who don't have that did you ever struggle with i mean because you seem incredibly self-assured and confident oh yeah i mean like honestly like growing up in Minnesota, I was like, I wasn't like, you know, the pretty one. Obviously, I was always beautiful. But, like, I was never the, you know what I mean? You know what I mean, though? Like, I was never like. No, it's fine.

You were saying that I was like, I don't know. I wasn't, like, picked first. Like, you know, growing up in a situation where it was the suburbs. I'm, you know, predominantly white. And I'm, like, mixed. And I'm, like, not skinny. And I'm not blonde. And I look like someone who's, like, you know, from a different place. And it just, it's hard, man. And like

being in gym class with all those girls and like, you're not skinny and like, you know, and so I'm like changing in a different room. And so only until I was like, you know what? Like, I'm not happy. And like, this is wrong. Like, why am I treating myself so bad for like my natural body? I was eating fine. I was exercising, you know, but this was like my natural body. Did you ever want to be called skinny? Was that a thing? I don't think that thin. I think that probably not. No, I don't think so, man. I just want to be happy. No, that's great. It's funny. It's a layer or whatever. And again, sometimes it is just in good jest with some of my female friends and I'll, you know, and they're like, do you think I've, do you think I've, you know, gotten a little too skinny or lost some weight? And then I got a friend conversation.

I'm like, yeah, a little bit. They're like, thank you. You know, and they say it kind of as a joke, but it's also like not really a joke where like, I feel like the society or the perception is like, if you look thin, that's somehow sexy and attractive. And so if you are someone who's not considered thin and attractive. Well, it's a cultural thing. If you are someone who's not considered thin. Because in the rap world, like I mean, you know what I'm saying? But maybe like in the, you know, in the other worlds of like other men, I'm just like, no, she's a little heavy for me. Right.

And I don't think that we should. The rap world. You know, the NBA dance, you know? Yeah. Like, yes. Yeah. That's the one. I feel like.

You don't have to be a rapper to enjoy a girl with curves. I'm just saying. No, I believe. Yeah. That's what I'm be a rapper to enjoy a girl with curves. I'm just saying. No, I believe. Yeah. That's what I'm promoting out here. No, I get it. I'm just saying. Yeah.

And I think too, like with this kind of like going into the body positivity, like, you know, now we can talk about that kind of, this is a segue, but basically like, but basically, like, I feel that sometimes what we're trying to do is make everyone say that we like everything, right? Like somebody has to sit here and say, well, everything's great and beautiful and perfect because we're afraid to say that, like, something isn't our type. Everybody is entitled to their own type, what they're attracted to. And nobody, I'm not going to shove my look down somebody's throat and say, well, you think I'm too skinny? Well, why? And tell me I'm this and tell me I'm this and, you know, whatever. It's like, allow people to have their own taste and their own, like, I mean, that's what makes the world go around.

I mean, I think. Yeah, I agree. I don't think that I would go. I mean, I know in different countries, too, like having more weight on you, obviously, is like a sign of prosperity. It's a sign of wealth and health. Motherly. Right.

Yeah, maternal. Totally. So, I mean, yeah, it's different culturally. And I don't think that there's a problem with that. I think the problem comes when— It's unhealthy. Right. When it's unhealthy and we attack people

not knowing what's going into that. I always tell people when we talk about body positivity, like I'm not concerned about what people look like as much as I am as what we're putting in our bodies, because no matter what we're doing, if my diet, if your diet was replicated across 50 people, everyone's still going to look completely different because genetics and environmental factors, everything. I mean, no body is supposed to look the same. There is an average. But that doesn't mean that the spectrum doesn't go out left and right.

But there is an average. The average is kind of boring anyways. Yeah. Well, we're going to take a quick break. By break, I mean I'm going to start talking about, I'm going to do a quick ad. Cool. Okay. Which is Natural Habits, my essential oil company.

I have it. I know. I love it here's one for you thank you here's another one for you thank you so much there's so many oils

I know Sophia uses essential oils yeah yeah I do I'm into it yeah when I go to sleep I'm into it for sure

well our release is a design blend you can see the blends that we use on the back of our sleeve there Courtney we are USDA organic certified

I started Natural Habits and I think I mentioned to you guys before. I don't know about you, Sophia, but essential oils can be kind of complicated. Like what do you blend it with? What do you use? What's the best for different things you're trying to do? I try to make it simple. So we're at Natural Habits, we try to make essential oil use easy for the common person. So that if you've heard of essential oils and you get confused by it, we have four specific blends, Rise, Protect, Center, Release. Rise for mental clarity, Protect for your immunity boost,

Center to help alleviate headaches, and Release to help with anxiety and sleep. Our roll-ons are diluted with organic jojoba oil, so it's safe and ready to go right out of the box. You don't have to dilute it with a carrier oil. Look for a diffuser line. We're coming out with the same blends for diffusers soon to come. Visit us at nhoils.com. If you're looking for just alternative ways to help with things like anxiety and sleep, if you're prone to headaches, essential oils have helped me.

They're a great way, a more non-traditional, but safer organic way to, you know, talk about things you put in your body. Your skin's your largest organ. All about it. It all ends up in your bloodstream.

Make sure that you're not putting things that are, you know, have chemicals in it. Try to avoid medication if you can. Yeah. For things like that. You know, I never wanted to get to, you know, I started like when I was having trouble sleeping, I was taking Tylenol PM and things like that.

And that's just never good. So that's how I personally got into essential oil use. So visit us at nhoils.com. Get 20% off. Use code MAKEITNATURAL. We offer free shipping domestically. We do ship around the world. And check us out. Follow us at Natural Hab habits on Instagram. Boom, bam. Back to the podcast. We have this great

lighting here. We, you know, we have these cameras so people can, you know, watch us if they want. I got it. I got it. filmed i got a toy for you didn't know oh my god uh and you're gonna look really good with this light oh thank you finally yeah we know about lighting yes oh my god find your light find your light i wasn't implying that they wouldn't wouldn't look good uh-huh um so to wrap this up a little bit before we get into any bachelor bachelor is, you know, in the dating world, what, I mean, is it a set, like in that story I gave, I do know, and I feel like, and again, it doesn't matter who it is. Do you find that guys bring up bodies? I've always heard these horror stories of women who were like dating the guy who felt like, you know, they got breast

implants because they're, they're like, I mean, there's, I watched a reality TV show. It was on Netflix and the guy, the, the, the guy gave her $10,000 and said, you can pay off your student loans or you can get breast implants. And it was very much. Right. Leaning towards the breast implants. And so that's, those things are, those are extreme and they're fucked up. But I do feel like that happens more than you would think. Or what is it okay in a relationship, especially if you're in a committed relationship, you know, like, and I do want to have, like, if I'm dating someone and someone says, Hey babe, or even the guy, like, Hey, like I'm, if I'm a guy, I'm got a little

lazy, been busy at work. Just, is it okay to talk about like working out or how does that, how do you have that conversation without feeling like you're objectifying your partner? It's a good question. Especially if you are the guy or the woman because I do think women are objectified about their bodies more so than men. Or do women like,

yeah, I'm just curious about that. I think the base has to be like staying healthy and like it's your intent. You know what I mean? Like I dated a guy once and we were like at the grocery store

and I like put some ice cream in there and he took it out. I called my mom and I cried and I was like, I have to break up with him. Like this took it out. I called my mom and I cried. I was like, I have to break up with him. Like, this is over. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, it's so hurtful.

But at the same time, if it had been like, okay, you know, I was eating shitty like all week or whatever. Then he was like, you know, like we should probably try to get healthy. Like that's different. Because that's coming from a place of like care. So it's intense.

Not condescension. Exactly. Like, uh. Yeah, like, no, I'm going to take this out. No, it's totally intent. You know, it really is i agree i also think that we have to as both men and women get a little bit i mean as society in general not just talking about bodies we are starting to become in a little bit really overly sensitive

to talking about things that are very true we have to stop being scared of bringing to light things that make us uncomfortable we are starting to kind of say well i don't want to talk about it it makes me feel this certain way and blah blah blah well then that's how issues keep rising and that's why things don't get fixed we need to bring to light certain things so that we can fix them again though it needs to come from a place of like i want to help or this is going to you know, a better world or whatever. But I think like, I, I would much rather have an open dialogue with the person that I'm dating to be able to say like for me, because I have the opposite issue where like, or not issue. I just, I don't gain a lot

of weight. Like it's very hard for me to put on weight. And so I would like my partner to be able to say if maybe I've been working a lot all week running around and I haven't been able to like eat as much as I'm supposed to be eating him to say, Hey, you're, you know, you're looking a little thin. And I know that's something that like resides with you. And it's something that you're always trying to like strive toward, you know, being like, do you think it's okay to give him permission? I have, because I know like for me, it's something that that like it's not coming from a place of like oh I'm so skinny what will people think about me it's like I do so much and because

I'm so prone like my body type my blood work okay so let's just talk about this like I um there's yeah no this is very this is very cool because um I think on both sides right like there's skinny shaming and then there's fat shaming and then there's just body shaming right like there's just the general for it but people who are naturally skinny someone like me who eats more than a grown man like let's just be real I eat so much in a day I mean my resting caloric is 2800 calories which is kind of like extremely high and so I eat about like 5,000 plus calories a day so basically like for someone who has that um skinny shaming is also just as a big of a deal as fat shaming but I think that people don't know the the reasons why people are the way that they

are and we make like assumptions based on just what we see on the outside. But people don't know that like my blood, when my blood work comes back, my body type actually is like similar to what they say. I literally have this in writing to an Olympian heavyweight, whatever, like whatever. And that's just my kind of body type that I have. And somebody might not have that. And it's like, there's so many different factors

that make us the way that we are. It's not just food. That's a good point just too, because I mean, I, again, as a guy, I think it's safe to say that guys just don't have to deal with the criticism as much as women. But, you know, some guys, I mean, I remember in high school, it was more college that we were talking about this before the show, in Wisconsin, I think maybe they just like, their guy's a little thicker.

And I've been always a lean guy. And again, I've been lucky. I'm like Sophia. Like, I try to eat healthy as I get older. And it's more about what my insides look like than my outside appearance because I have a very high metabolism. I'm used to working out. So even working out is easier for me to do than the average person.

So I'm lucky that way. But there was a time when I was younger that, I mean, it would happen all the time where like, I would just randomly be like in a line at the bar and the bartender, you know, would go, wow, you're really skinny. And it, it bugged me, especially like growing up in, in, in Wisconsin, it was like, you're supposed to be buff and big. And there was a couple year period that I like got creatine. If you don't know what creatine is, it's like really shitty for you, but like helps you like, it's like not, it's not steroids at all, but like it balks you up and you gain a lot of water weight and you get puffy. And I, that was a, it, it fucked me up a little bit. Like, I don't want to compare myself to some of

the shit that women have to go to. A lot of that shit is projection though. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't project your shit onto me. Like I'm cool with what I to go to. A lot of that shit is projection, though. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't project your shit onto me. Like, I'm cool with what I got going on. You know? It really is. Like, it's nobody's business. And why is it, like, everyone's talking about, like, body image and shit.

But it's like, what about your character? Like, what about the shit that you do when no one's looking? Like, that's more important. You know what I mean? But it's interesting, though. But, like, even on social media, I feel like people think it's more okay to comment and say, girl, you look too skinny. And as if that's like, that's fine to say. Or that it's a compliment.

Yeah. Or, but like, you can't say like, oh, like you, you're fat or you're big. Yeah. But like, they're both fucked up in a sense of like, you know, it's like, I'm just, do I look too thin? Because like, you know, if you, for people who are called too skinny, the implications they might look sickly. So either way, if you're being judged or commented on by your appearance or your physical, it'll mess you up in terms of making you question who you are, what you're supposed to be.

And especially if you're in a relationship with that person. I think it's interesting to your point, like, if you are in a relationship, I think that you should, if you are going to make a comment on your partner's appearance, you should have their permission in a sense. Yeah, totally. That person should come to you

and say, hey, listen, this is a personal struggle of mine and as my partner, I trust you to like help me with this. So, so like,

I'm sensitive about it, know that, but like, especially when it comes to diet because, you know, when it comes to diet, we can be busy. It's health or whatever.

It revolves around health. So if you notice something, let me know. But short of that, I think, and I've made that mistake too. It's just like, do not comment on their appearance if you don't know what place they're coming from. And it's interesting too. I know Courtney can like, you know, we see as models, I think it's interesting to like be able to see what goes on behind kind of the curtain sometimes with diet, right? Like you, I'm sure that you've met models who are extremely thin and they're, you know, taking tons of smoke breaks and they're

not eating lunch and, you know, and they're maintaining kind of a body type that maybe they don't naturally have, but maybe they entered the modeling realm with that body type. So now they're trying to keep it up just as in the same breath, there's plus models who are eating like, I mean, crazy amounts of, you know, bad food to maintain that because if they don't,

people will come in and say, oh, you've lost weight as a plus model. Like, what are you doing? You're not even really plus. Like, yeah. And that's tricky too. It's rough. But I think really what this all boils

down to is we need to stop worrying so much about what we look like on the outside as much as what we're eating because as people who have, you know, influence, whether it be, you can influence two people, a 2 million, it doesn't matter. If you influence people, it's important to be transparent with how you obtain your body goals. If you're making a major influence on people, because I'm not going to sit here and tell people that I, you know, eat a different way than I do. I'm very open about it on my Instagram.

I'm very open about what I eat and what I exercise with. And I think that everybody needs to be doing that because it's, it's pretty, it's pretty sad to kind of give out a false sense of like how you obtain a body type. It's just, it's not fair. Yeah. Because little girls are believing you out there. It's not fair. I totally agree. What can some like young men, I also like, you know, for the women out there listening to this podcast, thank you. Also, I do notice when you guys will tag the podcast on your Instagram, please keep doing that. Maybe I'll try to find a way to keep sharing. I, you know,

to, to Sophia's point, I am proud of what this podcast has become. And I do like challenging certain ideas and talking about topics. And thank you guys for being here, but I'm, you know, I hope we, I hope to grow our, our male audience. And so if you are a woman listening to this and you think you're a boyfriend or brought a younger brother or husband can benefit from getting a woman's point of view, please, please share it with them. But you know, what are some of the things that like, cause I do think like young men, I remember to be honest, my first girlfriend in college, I'm thinking it as we talk about, you know, you talk about the freshman 15, you've heard of that? Yes. Ramen noodles. And I remember I met my first girlfriend right before high school. And, you know, toppers, breadsticks.

Oh, my. You know I know. You know. Love toppers. Late night. And my first girlfriend discovered toppers, breadsticks. Yeah. Freshman year.

And she kept asking me. It was like, and beautiful girl girl wasn't used to working out but she went a little ham on those breadsticks and she gained some weight and I remember her asking me yeah what I thought and it and then I remember at the time like I don't know if you're really giving me permission we're younger here and I was the younger I was the kid who was very athletic who worked out. I was running track in college at the time and like I think I leaned in probably a little too much

in terms of like giving her like a workout plan or some shit or whatever. I think the response should be are you happy? Maybe so but I do feel like I think younger men you know and it probably came from also a place too. It was like I was noticed my girlfriend was gaining weight too. Yeah.

You've been conditioned. I do think, you know, Sam talked about she got dumped once because her boyfriend said she just gained weight. You know, like I think younger men are sometimes think it might be okay to objectify women a little bit more than they should or maybe just not consciously aware of some of the shit you all have to deal with growing up as you guys are developing your bodies and your body like at 18 you know like your body our bodies all change you this weight is such a negative thing it's like damn it's hard to be a plus girl and everyone's like did you gain weight as a negative connotation it's like thank god like uh no i feel good i don't know i i well i mean i have i've dated girls too who were like they've gained weight and i was like very excited about it yeah yeah oh totally i mean again it's just it's all a matter of personal

preference we all have preferences in what we prefer and that's fine and two if you love somebody like i know my boyfriend um my weight in the sense of like very it's a very small like scale like I'll you know but like still it's noticeable and my boyfriend loves when I'm you know my normal self that like I just this weight that I always kind of go back to and then when I gain a few pounds he loves it it's like when you love somebody you love the journey with them and you love yeah you know, you just love them entirely. So why? Yeah. And I said, I think on a previous episode too, to me, like in a relationship, talking about being in a relationship, it's more about intention. Like it's, I like, for me, I'm personally attracted to people who are motivated people who take care of themselves.

Right. Right. And there's something about self-maintenance and just wanting to like, you know, the idea of me being in a relationship and whether it's my physical, mental or emotional well-being, I want to be my best self for my partner. And no one likes a lazy person. No one likes to be in a relationship where they feel like they've given up because if you've given up, I feel like you've given up on me. And it also floats onto you. Like, well, I don't really care what I look like or how I act because I have you. Right. And that's no different than like being an asshole or letting yourself go you know and so

I think that matters and in a relationship that's always bugged me being in a relationship where like someone says well what do I why do I need to do this I'm in a relationship why do I need to like try anymore and maybe that's being chivalrous or maybe that's like running a lap I don't you know yeah well too like think about like just how if you believe in evolution or, you know, whatever, or just going back in time, it's like. Oh, God. Oh, no. Well, you know, like.

Episode 12. Right. We are, we're animals, you know. Yeah, we've removed ourselves from the food chain, but we are animals. And so we're supposed to be athletic. We're supposed to be doing things. I mean, we didn't get the freaking, I don't know, let's just use it as a reference. I didn't get the coconut from the top of the tree by looking at it. You know, like we were physical beings and we're

supposed to be active. And I think that in this kind of, in the United States, when we're such a hustle and bustle kind of country where everything's so fast paced and really everywhere, really everywhere, you know, developed country, But I feel like working out sometimes and being healthy is not a part of the daily regimen because we work crazy nine to fives and we have a family and we just don't have time. I think that working out and eating healthy becomes more of like a thing of like, oh, that's an extra thing or that's extreme or that's this or that's that. But we're supposed to be, we're supposed to be healthy and we're supposed to be working out or doing some kind of, some physical activity on a daily basis. So we shouldn't be so upset or so

offended when someone, you know, tries to facilitate that for somebody else. I feel like if you care about somebody and you want them to live a long time, you should be able to say like, hey, like, I want you to come along with me on this journey. Well, the tough part too in that situation too is we do project our own insecurities. And sometimes we get, you know, I would like, it always makes me nervous when people get defensive. When you get defensive, that is a red flag in anything. In what sense though? Well, it's like, it's, we were talking about cheating you know i i've i've noticed that i feel like people who get the most defensive or jealous about cheating are sometimes the people once you've

done it who are doing it or stepping out yeah i think we we all we can we self-monitor ourselves whether we're doing anything about it we our brain tells us whether we could be doing more or less yeah all the time right our insecurities things, especially things that we can control. So like if you are, let's say I was self-conscious about my weight. Let's say I felt like I was overweight. And in this moment, I was like, fuck it, the donut's right there. And I know I shouldn't eat it. And I have four or something and I hate myself for it.

And then someone comments to me like, why did you eat that? Like I'm probably going to be already more defensive and unleash on them because I've already judged myself and I've already- It's a buildup. It's a buildup. I think we do that all the time,

whether it's- By the way, I would never come at someone for eating four donuts ever. I would never do that. It's so funny. No, but people do. People do. And I'm not defending the comment.

I'm just saying we do protect our insecurities and I think people do. People do. And I'm not defending the comment. I'm just saying we do protect our insecurities. And I think we do. It's a thing to keep track of. If you find yourself getting defensive, I think that's a signal to yourself that you really know what's going on. You know what's bothering you. And it's not always something that you could work on. Again, like when it's, if you are jealous in a relationship, you know, you might not be cheating,

but maybe like, again, the whole emotional cheating, maybe you're going around, you're checking out every girl or you're flirting a little bit more with the opposite sex because like you're not happy in the relationship. And all of a sudden you see your partner, like kind of like get a little shady

with their phone and turn. And all of a sudden you're like, what's up with that? You know, I think that often comes from a place of, you know, we know what we're doing and we kind of project that. And I think that comes with anything. I think I have a different point of view than you guys on the conversation with partners about weight. My husband's not allowed to talk about my weight. It's like the one thing that's off limits because I'm so sensitive about it. And I have such a history with it that he's not allowed to comment on it.

And that's like, it's either it's allowed to be an open dialogue or it's not. Yes. Now I have a question for you, Sam. You, you've mentioned that, uh, that's the case, but he's sometimes when you guys watch TV, we'll make comments about other women, but how, how does that affect you? Because if, if he is, um, pointing something out about how she looks or mimicking her body, do you immediately compare yourself to the person he's commenting on? No, because I think that other women are objectively beautiful.

And it has nothing to do with her. He thinks I'm beautiful. He tells me that every day. He's allowed to tell me that I'm beautiful. But it's not like, you know. Well, thank God for that. She's running a tight ship people but there's no room for joking about my weight there's no room for you know do these pants maybe look fat you know the traditional question in marriages that's not a dialogue i like that you guys have set those boundaries too

because i think as men sometimes yeah you know it is that that trap you know as men it's just like i don't it's what do you want me to say here babe you know like um and i i do think you know men and women too can sometimes set our partners up to fuck up you know like we want to it's like what do you think you right and you're like gotcha no to not let them comment on other women is ridiculous like of course you should be able to watch people on tv and say there'll be or yeah someone in the street be like that girl is hot yeah sure why not what's the what's i don't know i'm just i think that's great that you you do that oh yeah i i was curious yeah no of course it doesn't have an effect i have not been in i at that particular relationship i talked

about it was like i it was it was a thing and if it if that was like from that moment um of me having that very bad joke which I was 100% wrong regardless of she could have had a better sense of humor about it I shouldn't have done it it was an ongoing issue so any comment any observation any anything about any woman or anything was was a it just set it off it was just a bomb waiting to explode going forward but you guys are in relationships do you think that's healthy versus unhealthy relationship if you're not what do you think like not not being able to to like the fact that he making his making a joke turned into something see i'm i'm a very i mean i don't know if it's because i'm from the south but all we do is joke i mean we joke out of love and and the

jokes are very harsh like i mean and people change because you love but you're only offended by something that resonates right right one thousand percent and i mean my whole family like not not in the relationship like that but just like family relationship i was picked on okay we can say that for my entire life for being so thin i would eat like crazy amounts of food in front of my entire family but then you know oh porosito you know you're so skinny like you know you need to eat more whatever so um but i didn't realize that that really had an effect on me until i started binge eating from you know 13 on and stuff like that. You felt you were overcompensating. Yeah. So I tried to just eat tons to make people happy even more than I was

and put on like the smallest bit of weight. Didn't even make a dent because I'm not supposed to be a super curvy person even though I might want to be that. Like that's not me. It's like accepting who you are. But I think though we have to as people, and this is just my opinion, but I feel like the stronger that we are

and the ability to take on things that might be, yeah, offensive or harsh, I think that that makes me even stronger. I don't think that we need to police so much language. You got to deal with your childhood shit. Yeah, because back in the day, I remember when I would get picked on in school, I would come home and tell my mom things, and they were ruthless,

the things that she would say. But instead of going after the kid and going after the school, which she did sometimes, actually. My mom's a crazy Texas lady. But she would tell me how beautiful I was and all the great things about me that make me me. And she would just build me up, and I felt like things about me, you know, that make me me. And she would just build me up. And I felt like that made me stronger than being a victim all the time

and feeling like I had to be scared to go to school. Or, you know, I had to tell the teacher every single, you know, time something happened. I think that she did something very different that made me feel so confident going into life later. And I feel like the things that she really did as an, to an early age really kind of manifested later on in my life. Like it's kind of the foundation. So I feel like I'm all for just being honest and using your freedom of speech. And I'm not, I'm not super. It's so interesting because you never really think about like how you're saying,

like you being skinny. Like I never think of the other spectrum. Like me growing up up like I was always a little heavier yeah okay I look at okay let's just be real when I look at you I'm like gosh your skin is glowing I mean everything about her is perfect yeah and so like and I look at I mean I think human to even get to be a human being, right? Like we were the one out of the million that made it. So in a sense, we come here perfect already. I mean, we were the perfect one. So it's like there's something beautiful about everybody. And I just hope that we can get over the external and feeling like we have to just judge, judge, judge.

Again, like just be healthy, be happy. I'm a huge believer in that in terms of there's a huge difference between understanding our insecurities, our weaknesses, the things that make us vulnerable and acknowledging those. But at that point,

there is a difference between that and allowing it to be a crutch too. I think sometimes can do that too. It's like we can identify our insecurities and then going forward, instead of trying to do something about it and then you can't fix it overnight right yeah but then using it is always the excuse of why you can't get something done or i've i've been conflicted or afflicted by this

and then sometimes i think nowadays we're in this age of like almost comparing our inabilities like who has it worse it's trendier to like you know it's like this balance of i think it's great and we like talked about anxiety and depression last week. I think it's great that we've become more of a side to open up about it. I think we have a ways to go, but let's, it's also something that, you know, let's not hang on to it. Right. Let's, let's try to fix it as a way to, so we can be our best selves.

And there is a difference there in trying to, whether it is weight issues or insecurities of acknowledging it and then how do we go about it how do we communicate with our partners like sam it's just like okay this is an issue i've dealt with i'm gonna nip it in the bud and tell my husband this is here's how we can have a healthy relationship and here's how this could affect this is how it's gonna affect my insecurity and also like acknowledging the fact that that sits with you such a certain way because you've gone through so much with that specific thing in the past and you know, whatever. And so it's like knowing that that strikes a chord in you and you know where that like took you a long time ago and you don't want to go there. So it's like you're moving forward. You don't want to go back. So it's like for him to be able to do that and you to be able to vocalize it. That's incredible. For him to be able to do that and you to be able to vocalize it, that's incredible.

Yeah. I mean, I think we all sit with our things. Like, every person has something. Everybody has something. And there's no need to poke at it in a relationship. That would just be mean. Especially if it's something that isn't, like, dire, right? Like, okay, like, it's not, you're not talking about the food or, like, the health aspect of it. Like, that's a byproduct of what you eat, right?

So it's like, you don't need to talk about the weight. You need to talk about what you're eating or what you're, you know, whatever. It's like, that's not even,

that doesn't need to be talked about. Yes, and I'm okay. So if it wasn't, it wasn't an issue. If Logan wasn't concerned about me, we don't poke at our partners. That's not healthy. Sometimes if you are lucky enough

to have a high metabolism, you can put a lot of shitty things into your body. Absolutely. Being skinny doesn't mean you're healthy. That's right, girl. That's right, girl. That's what I'm saying.

I've dealt with that too. When you're younger, you're like, well, I can eat whatever I want. And I'm like, why do I always feel like shit? You know? Because I'm constantly eating sugar and inflammation. And I'm sure that's true for the plus community too. I'm sure they feel…

You guys feel like you can… I don't know about you, but you can eat a bunch of crap, right? But it's about health either way, right? Yeah. Or you could be a plus size person and starve your body and still like not get the results you want,

but you're melding, you're putting your body. And it's like, not to get in a diet, but like if you starve your body, your immune system slows down and has an adverse effect on your ability to burn calories. It's a whole thing. And so when you do these extremes, you're really, it's really messing up your insides.

The only thing that we should be, I feel like, really like going off of like the baseline is like, okay, we go to the doctor. We get physicals. We get blood work done. We get our vitamin panels done. Listen to that. or we get physicals, we get blood work done, we get our vitamin panels done. Listen to that.

You're literally getting a chart of your body and you can dissect that and take it, you know, for what it is. But I think that's what we need to be listening to. And that's it. I totally agree. And in the dating world, if you are in a partner in a relationship where the person makes comments,

you know, you can be patient at first and say, hey, like, you could do that if a guy literally grabs a spoon out of your hands i don't know if there's a lot to work with there it's a no for me but maybe if it's a guy who maybe makes a offhand joke maybe like um you know maybe like try to find out if it were that did it come from a place of you know um understanding or not understanding but like in that case, I made a bad joke. I told, I was just like, wow, I am so sorry. Okay.

If the guy pushes, like if the guy, you know, is constantly criticizing you. Because I think guys do that. You hear these horror stories of guys, like this whole idea, like giving you money to augment your body. Where does that come from? Their condition. You know what I mean? What's up with that? I think that happens a lot these days.

I think that we have to change the tone of that though. I think that like, if you know, it's not our responsibility as women to then say, you know, that's not right all the time and police, you know, guys.

But I think that we have to be extra supportive to each other. And in turn, everybody like, this isn't just a girls band together and just you know exclude everyone else it's like we should just be supportive of ourselves and and kind of be the shoulder to lean on or to talk to if something is to go wrong and you know to build each other back up because we should be able to sit here and in the room and look at everybody and say everyone's beautiful and everyone's perfect in their own way. And like, that's what it's about.

Well, let's take a quick time out on this conversation. We have a question. I think we'll get back into like personal preferences and who you date. I'm really interested in your women's point of view. But we'll talk Bachelor a little bit. Colton finally jumped the fence. Congratulations. Did you guys watch it?

Yeah, I did. I did, yeah. It was really interesting. I thought… What did you think? I thought… I liked how real the show allowed the Colton to be. Yeah.

My two biggest… I thought everyone handled it great. Right? I don't have any judgment in terms of… Yeah, the dad. I thought the dad was awesome coming through keeping it real was the best part and I really appreciated Ken I thought he was a rock star I agree with you because you could tell like he was like listen I'm you're 20

you were an adult so I can't tell you what to do and I'm not even trying to like influence your decision because like I think some people could criticize him for saying like he's telling you yeah he but he's still her dad and and I think nowadays it's being him for saying he's telling it. Yeah. But he's still her dad. And I think nowadays, being 23 now is not the same as being 23 20 years ago. Oh, my God. We're maturing later in life. And I really liked how her dad approached it, saying, hey, it reminded me. Have you ever seen the movie Meet Joe Black?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so good. I love that movie. And in that movie, Anthony Hopkins, in the first 10 minutes of the movie is talking to his daughter saying, I just want you to fall. I want you to be head over heels the same way. Like literally kind of the same speech.

And he did it in a whole Anthony Hopkins side of way of like what every father hopes for her daughter to get swept after feet and just be glowing by a guy who just makes her sparkle. Yeah. hopes for her daughter to get swept after feet and just be glowing by a guy who just makes her sparkle. And, and it was, I thought a really nice special moment between Cassie and her and her dad saying like, listen, I like Colton's great or whatever,

but like, I don't know. I mean, I will say I've been in relationships too, where, and I love my parents so much in the sense they've been such great parents. And my parents have been so great. I joke because they have other shit to worry about because they have 10 kids. My parents did a great

job of letting me turn 18 and saying, Hey, we did our best. Go for it. You know? And, and being there where they did, they weren't like the hovering parents or whatever. But like, um, I think sometimes, you know, I had dated women and we broke up my parents were like yeah I'll be honest I wasn't the one I don't know she wasn't doing it for you know and I was like where was like yeah could have used some feedback early on guys and you know god bless my parents they didn't want it's like hey you know you're an adult you know and I don't know what the right or wrong answer is there but I really appreciate like my point is is like our parents still know us they raised us they know who we are.

They can read us. Sometimes then we can read ourselves, especially in situations, and that's what The Bachelor is, is a crazy intense atmosphere that we kind of suspend our regular inhibitions. It's just an extreme environment, and in extreme environments we will make irrational decisions. And I think it was really great what Cassie's dad

his intentions I thought were awesome I'm really curious from your my biggest I'm curious about you women is how much do you think Cassie really likes Colton? It's not enough time you know what I mean to decide that you know I don't know

I mean I think she likes him but it's know I don't know I mean I think she likes him but it's like I don't know if I could ever really be involved with someone who's like dating other women at the same time how much can you really let it go and like love them you know what I mean I get that I don't what I've as someone who's been in the world the only thing I will say is what that world does a great job doing is and i've told you this before yeah it maximizes your emotion so whatever you feel or could feel about anyone right it will it's like it will put that on steroids it will maximize that it will get the most out of in the shortest amount of time and the other women aspect it's hard to explain it just becomes hyper competitive and in fact that almost makes you more

delusional about your feelings than in reality because it's a winning aspect that you honestly can't, you can be aware of it and still not know. You can be like, I'm competitive. So you're drunk the whole show.

You don't even know what's going on. And so, what's alarming to me is Cassie's objectiveness in this atmosphere and her, like, I like you, you're a nice guy, but I don't know man like yeah it

to me I'm just wondering like I don't doubt she likes him but I'm thinking if she has a chance to be in love with him she would most likely be in the other end it would be like she would because that's what that world does it makes you think crazier emotions and you you get out of that world then you kind of calm down. You come back to earth and be like, all right, no, I still love you.

It's great. We have a lot to get to know and let's chill out. But like, that whole like, I can't live without you. Like, I was like,

okay, I'm sorry. I was caught up in that world. You know, like, if you suck, I can live without you. And so I'm curious,

you know, so you have a point of view and then you, I don't know. What do you guys think? She, she seemed to have an angle last night. You think she had an angle? Yeah.

I was thinking, I was curious how much of it was orchestrated. The dad coming so that she didn't look like the bad guy. So she could say. So you don't think she likes him? I think she wanted out. Oh, okay, okay. And she got her dad. I don't know okay, okay. And she got her dad. I don't know.

What do you mean she got her dad? She either, she had the producers call her dad or she wanted her dad to come because she was not in it anymore. And you know how all season they kept saying someone is not fully in, someone is not fully in? Oh, wow. I think it was Cassie

because she seemed to not want to be there anymore. So the dad was someone she could blame. And I don't know if it's because she wants to be the bachelor. I don't know. But it seems that she was not in it anymore. She was out. I don't know if it's that far. It's just,

it's really hard for all the conspiracy theories that come from that show. Yeah. Listen, here's what I almost assure you didn't happen is that Cassie went to the producers and said, can you call my dad and fly him out? Or she called her dad, though. You know what I mean? She doesn't call her dad. She does not get to call her dad.

Well, why wouldn't you just pick up the phone and call her? What? Who flies? They can't call. Oh, they can't he just pick up the phone and call her? Even, he doesn't, what? Who flies? What? They can't, oh, they can't call? They don't, no, they're off the grid. You have no access to your family whatsoever.

Then how'd he find her? Maybe she like gave him like a look. Because here's, here's my guess is what happened and this has happened before where they sometimes don't air things

is that Cassie's dad in the previous episode didn't give Colton his blessing or his approval or whatever. That's a big thing, right? It's a huge thing, especially if she's like the front runner. And so in almost the situations, like the show wants love.

They really do. They ideally want someone to get engaged and they want to be sincere, right? Like they really want that. So it's a really good story for the lead to not get the approval from the person they like the most, especially in that moment. And I'm assuming the show would probably let that happen. It's like, okay, that's really compelling, but we'll try to fix it at the end. So they'll probably like call her dad and be like, hey, listen, your daughter and Colton are like going through this thing. Do you want to come here and

talk to, again, they, they create situations. They don't script things. They didn't tell, I mean, Cassie's dad's not part of the show. You know what I'm saying? He's a loving father who cares about his daughter's well-being. And they gave him an opportunity to come talk to his daughter. And what happened after that, they didn't plan for. But it seemed like she wanted it out. I don't doubt that.

And maybe he picked up on that. But this idea that she went in and somehow like, even like the only way it could have happened is if at hometown when she's talking to her dad, she was like, hey, save me. Yeah, wink. But like, that's all on camera. They're both mic'd. You have, they have, there's no time

that Cassie was ever alone with her dad off camera. There was no, that never, that didn't happen. I can guarantee you there was no time that Cassie had any one-on-one time with her dad where she could have been like, hey, I need you to do this. That didn't happen. There's no way. So I just find it very hard to believe. I do buy that she's like, here's the thing.

What I appreciate about Cassie, like it's just tough to be in that world. There's so much pressure on both Colton and the people to not be accused of being there for the wrong reasons. And Cassie doesn't know what she's signed up for. No one really does. You think you do? Can I just say that I'm friends with her sister, Michelle.

So by default, I have to love Cassie. So whatever Cassie does is right. I think it is right. She didn't love him. I think what she did was right. She left. I mean, that's the right thing to do. That's the responsible thing to do. Yeah. 1000%. My question is, I think what she did was right she left I mean that's the right thing to do that's the responsible thing to do

1000% I don't my question is I think she likes him I'm just curious how much she yeah I don't I also

this is maybe a little bit off topic but like I don't I don't watch like you know I'm not like huge like avid

but I did watch a little bit of this am I allowed to say yes okay so last night. And I think, and I don't know if it's like this every episode, but when you're flying people around, right?

Like when you're going to like little islands and you're sitting on cliffs and you have like all of these, it's all just like so much, right? Like you're, it's so much sensory. And I feel like, and there's alcohol involved or whatever it is. It's like, it's hard to kind of push through all that and like see the person sitting in front of you. You have so much going on. So it's like, you're enamored by the experience.

And I feel like in my life, when I've felt the most connection with somebody, or it's been a really successful relationship in terms of like how long or, you know, how deep we got, it's always been the people who we don't like, not to say you can't go enjoy life and go do those things, but initially it's all here. It's all, you know, getting to know that person and like, not just saying like, it's great, it's beautiful. And, um, you know, it's, it's like, it's, it's more than that. It's like having a deep conversation and like being raw and real. And I felt like, obviously there's a pressure when you're on TV and people who maybe are not on TV often it's, you know, it's, it's hard. And you, you feel like you, you have a lot of this like pressure to come off a certain way, or

maybe you're a little intimidated, you know? So I feel like that is the element though, that makes it, maybe that's the element that makes it, you know, harder to get you on on tv and that's what i couldn't tell watching it right is that i don't doubt she cares for him i'm just surprised i felt like cassie was struck and again everyone does in fairness or everyone like to say that she's worried about what people think of her is fair and normal everyone yeah everyone's fair yeah um and you could tell she does care about him and when colton was when colton like really at that point professed his, he's like, whatever, you're it. Like, and that, like that was, I thought, very real. And that happens every season.

But like, this is a unique situation where the front runner is bowing out. And he professes love. And he like doubles down. And there was a look on Cassie's face was like, oh, shoot. That's real. Yeah. Like, oh. And again, a real life situation where you're dating and someone feels stronger than the other.

And there's a guilt on the other side. And when you're a really good person, you don't want to hurt somebody. You don't want to hurt someone. Sometimes you put yourself second in the name of not hurting somebody's feelings. And that's obviously not right but here and here the question i have in this world and too is that with things like social media and the longevity and uh being in a high public relationships and the the benefits that come with it how could that indirectly affect cassie's point of view or motivations and not in any way in a negative way it's fair like it's not even like mac mac

macavallian or whatever it's just that like she is young in terms of and i don't doubt she likes colton right i don't doubt that she like so it's kind of like in people in relationships think yeah you know especially like the old traditional we're like what if you're dating someone and all your friends love them your family loves them and you're just like i like them and you're like but he's such a great guy so then you try to date this person like deep down you don't feel that sparkle with yeah that happens a lot sometimes you try to make it work for the name of like well he checks all the boxes um and that's what this kind of almost felt like a little bit i felt bad for both of them yeah do you think colton likes her because she's not all the way in

Yeah. Do you think Colton likes her because she's not all the way in? Yeah. Wow. Interesting. Men tend to do that. They tend to like that. You think that's a man thing?

They want what they can't have. You don't think that's a human thing? Okay. Okay, it's human. It's human, yeah. I think we all want what we can't have. No, for sure. Listen, all I can say is in that situation, by this time, I was definitely all in with Vanessa, right? that situation by this time I was definitely all in with Vanessa right um I remember and I've said this before there was basically a time where you try to like give everyone their their due course

you try to like when you're on dates like there's things I liked about Rachel and Raven but like it was Vanessa that's who I was falling for that's who I had that sparkle with yeah and I was terrified what if she leaves if she leaves there's no's no show. There's like, do I get engaged to someone I like? Do I get engaged to someone who I think is a cool hang, but there's no like, what do I do? And if Vanessa bowed out, it had nothing to do with her not liking. That's who I liked.

And I would have been like, I would have I thought about that a lot. And so this is what's happening. You would have jumped the fence. Right. Seriously. Also also cassie told colton that her dad showed up what colton's thinking about is did the producers get involved or whatever and i honestly don't think here's what the producers just let it like maybe maybe cassie's dad called him that's possible maybe cassie's like listen guys this is my daughter and I would love an opportunity to come.

And they're like, cool. That can happen. That happens sometimes. It's not always this. Again, I've always said what the producers are great at and they're best at is reacting to whatever situation. They're reacting to change. This whole blueprint of a plan, whether it's by the producers or by like casting her family to have some machiavellian like strategy for her to become the next bachelorette that's no way that

happened she just got herself in a situation she's reacting it and now producers are reacting to it and i think you know like cassie she walked off and she goes i don't and i'm second guessing it which was clearly like to a producer and clearly that meant that she came into that date planning on breaking up with him for sure Colton then said what he was saying and now she's like I don't know like I do like him you know and you can tell it was fascinating the struggle I think the pressure

to like obviously get engaged and like say you love somebody in a time frame it's like that's that's already to me unnatural in itself you know I feel like that's the most to me, unnatural in itself. You know, I feel like that's the most unnatural. I mean, I knew,

but then on the flip side, I knew when I, you know, saw my boyfriend, my current boyfriend, for the first time in a grocery store that I loved him.

Just from like, I just knew. I did. When you know, you know. You do. It's not about, you know,

yeah, there's always a physical attraction, but there's something in the eyes and in the energy and it's like, there's just something. I think, you know, you know, you do. It's, it's not about, you know, yeah, there's always a physical attraction, but there's something in the eyes and in the energy. And it's like, there's just something I, I have love at first sight for, you know, people. And so I feel like, um, that's just me though. And there might be somebody, you know, that falls in love just as harder, but it's, you know, a developed relationship, whatever. But I feel like the timeframe and the pressure on that is just so, it's unnatural to me.

You gotta be a secure girl in that situation. Yeah. I do feel like Cassie's dad showing up gave her the confidence and permission to be like, you know what? This is normal. Because she's a family-oriented person, obviously. And I feel like, you know, part of some people's happiness is making their family happy and making sure that, you know, an inclusion of another person fits well. well and like that's important to a lot of people and that's beautiful

so totally but also in that like i will say like people are the struggle is when you make it that far as a contestant of of being accused of wanting to be the bachelorette or the bachelor being accused by the other people of being for wrong reasons and so people can get themselves in a sticky situation where like and again i always find it fascinating the criticism people in that show sometimes get for not want like for all the crazy shit that ari got last season for like realizing he picked the wrong person like that happens in life all the time the only thing that happened in that situation is that there are now two relationships that came from Ari being vilified. Right. It's just people.

She's just trying to figure it out. Yeah. People are just projecting again like people want limelight and people want, you know, recognition. So I think when people are seeing that they got to walk away with not being tied down for the rest of their life and also gaining some publicity from it makes people upset. And that's sad. Yeah. I think that's pretty sad. And by the way, if Colton now goes to find her, like after the show, if he, you know, goes to Huntington Beach, they might have a healthier relationship because of it.

They might get to date. They might. I mean, I don't know if that's what happens. I'm kind of jealous it's a good set it's a real relationship circumvented the pressures of getting engaged by the show

from someone who's been I'm fascinated if that's how it happens and it's well received by the fans how does that affect the show because I do think the show doesn't exist if there's not that… If there's no engagement. Yeah.

If people sometimes got engaged, it wouldn't be on the air anymore. Totally. I don't think so. It was the first time I liked Colton. He seemed genuine and real and endearing as opposed to like on. Right. Yeah. And I know that's the show.

I mean, I get it. Because that's a very real emotion. Like, right. Like, I think… Chase the girl. Yeah. Like, having to like all of a sudden feel something that's very real. I mean, I get it. Because that's a very real emotion. Like, right. Like, I think. Chase the girl. Yeah. Like having to like all of a sudden feel something that's very real. It's not following a pattern.

It's not. Yes, I like you. I feel for you. I really like you. I love you. It's like something that's thrown off the pattern. And it's making you feel something very real in that moment for the first time. So you're like almost like woken back up to life a little bit.

Yeah. I think that's cool. I'm curious to see what happens in the finale. Yeah. I don't know. I thought it was fascinating. I'm curious what people will say about both Cassie and Colton.

Honestly, I kind of liked it all. I liked Cassie's how she handled it. I thought her father was great. I thought Colton handled it well. And I give the show credit for allowing this realness to happen. I am curious how it would affect the show going forward. I am curious about that. So, well, we do these questions with fans.

Cool. We have some. We'll do one Skype call, and then we have an interesting. Cool. Do you guys need a break or anything? No, but I've, like like switched liquids three different times. They're probably going to be like, is she okay? Hi, Brianne.

How are you? Hi. These are my friends, Sophia and Courtney. I'm Nick. We're going to try to like, you know, answer your question and see what's up. How can we help? Well, my question. I've been seeing this guy on and off

for about a year and a half. And we recently decided to enter into an open relationship. Okay. So we drew up, you know, like the contract, like you do, lots of guidelines. Is this what you, I don't, I'm very, I don't know anything about this.

So walk me through what you do. What's in the contract? A lot of things just about how to relate to other people. So like the main one obviously is protection. So I'm very safe with my health and I want him to be safe with his health. And so we just have maybe some differing opinions on that topic. And then mostly about emotionally connecting to others. Because if we want to be in a relationship and still experience other people, then we need to have kind of like a really strong foundation, in my opinion. What's your overall question that relates to this situation? Well, I mean, I wanted to hear what you guys thought about open relationships,

but I'm currently struggling with our differing opinions on how to make it work, I guess. What are your, just, I have a few follow-up questions. First one is, what are your difference of opinions? I want condoms 100% of the time. Absolutely, absolutely. It's non-negotiable. And he doesn't. Oh, he doesn't? I want condoms 100% of the time. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's non-negotiable.

And he doesn't. Oh, he doesn't. He doesn't. What else? Yeah, so it's non-negotiable for me. Okay. So it's a hard line. What else? What else are you not connecting on in that?

I think it's more about open communication. Like I said, we've been seeing each other on and off. So I don't think we necessarily communicated about all of our partners during said year and a half. And going forward, I would want to know prior. Sure. So my real big question is, where did this decision derive from? Yes. How did this start? What were you feeling? How did this start? Well, backstory. So for both of us, for most of our 20s, we were in very long-term relationships.

I was in a relationship from age 20 to 28, and there wasn't a lot of passion there. And same for him. So when we met, I don't think either of us had been single for very long, and I wasn't ready to commit or settle down and neither was he. And then the relationship between the two of us grew. Um, so when, I don't know, I guess we just kind of got to this, like we got to a comfort level where we were in a relationship but not acknowledging it. And then I think we both had outside opportunities to see other people. So we decided to kind of discuss and come to a head. Gotcha. When you meet your person, whoever that is, maybe this is the guy,

and I don't know if you want to get married someday or settle down, are you interested or open to having an open relationship in your, say, final relationship, if that makes sense? Or is this just like a phase or like a moment for you guys? No, this is something that I think that I'm interested in personally. I, like I said, didn't have a lot of passion in my marriage and I wouldn't want to feel tied down like that again, but I also do thrive in a relationship. Do you feel like you're unable to have that kind of heightened passion with just him? No, I feel that with him more than I've ever felt.

Right. I think it's just... Wanting something more. I don't know. I personally don't want to cut myself off. From other opportunities with guys? Do you feel like that stems from being in such a long relationship for a long time I'm sure that's probably do you feel like it stems in any way from

your thoughts of maybe him feeling that way and so you kind of letting him do it and you do it at the same time or is it is it really you want to or do you think that there's like any inkling of like you don't want him to feel like he's giving up something for you so you'd rather know about it versus just to not have him in your life at all yeah right right I think there's a fear of commitment on both sides okay for sure I think it took quite a while to get to this point where we acknowledged we wanted to be together so um yeah I just I think that I enjoy just dating. Like, I never got to do that in my 20s. Totally.

And I think him as well. And we both have children. Our kids are the same age. Okay. And so get that family vibe together. But we don't really get the, I don't know, I never got to date. And I don't think he did either. Right.

Well, I have some thoughts. Do you mind if I? Yeah, go ahead. and then you guys can, and then jump in whenever I listen, I I'm, I'm not into this, so no judgment. So I'm speaking from a place of, I don't, I can't relate. So that being said, I think in these situations, it's really important to be honest with yourself about your motivations and intentions and kind of just Sophia's point, really know what,

what is motivating for these decisions. I think if you're someone who likes a non-traditional relationship, that's fine. I know people who are non-traditional relationships and have very healthy relationships, but they are very much on the same page, which I think you talked about a reference to. I think when it comes to this, you're, you're not, you should have your non-negotiables and those should be absolute. And so you should, there should be again, non-negotiables, right? And you need to be able to know that you can trust them. Otherwise it's like a non-starter. Also, more importantly, I do think you need to like really make sure, is this something you're really into or is it a, a way to circumvent what you're really trying to accomplish. And what I mean by that is you like him fine.

It sounds like you don't want to lose him, but you're also not ready to commit. That doesn't necessarily mean the solution is an open relationship. The solution might be, I need to make a tough decision. What I'm saying is, I think you truly have to just, regardless of any other non-factors in your relationship, children, what's going on in a relationship trust, you two need to both just say, going into the relationship, I'm into an open relationship because I like an open relationship.

It shouldn't be a solution to anything. It's kind of like when people decide to like move in together to like save some aspect of their relationship because other things aren't working out. I'm a, well, here's what I'm certain of. This isn't a solution to anything. You know what I'm saying? Like this isn't going to fix anything. It will most likely cause stresses. And so if you, if, if in your mind, if there's any part of you things that you guys are doing this because it's going to help something in relationship, I'm certain it won't. It might be something you guys are both down for and you're on the same, and then fine, no judgment, do what you want to do, be on the same page and have your non-negotiables.

I just think you need to be really honest with yourself about what your real intentions are. And if there's any part of you thinks you're doing it because you, you don't want to lose them, but want your freedom and you think this is a solution, it's not a solution to anything, if that makes sense. For sure. I would say that I haven't had a successful open relationship yet. So it's hard to determine if it will work or if it is just a solution, but it's something that I'm willing to try. Yeah, and that's the case, then go for it. No judgment.

I do think definitely all these situations, too, it's always kind of follow your gut too right like you know you don't need our opinion to know that it's uh that your non-negotiables are valid right i think you know that deep down i mean we can validate that for you but you already know that so trust your gut um and and then figure out if open relationships are for you uh just know that you're going into it with a little bit of a risk. That if this is your guy, it could mess it up. But as someone who is curious about the possibility if open relationships are a viable option for you in future relationships, trial and error. That's part of life too.

You got to make yourself happy. You know what I mean? If you're down for this, I think you should do it. It's going to work out or it's not. You got to trust the universe and whatever's meant for you is going to always be for you, girl. So you got to do you, girl. Yeah, I think. Thank you.

Yeah, of course. I think like I've actually teetered with the thought of this before. I've thought about trying that. And what I really when it came down to what it really was for me personally, when I was trying to like reason with it and yeah, I'm going to do this and this will be fine. It was what I just said. It was coming from a fear of me thinking that he wanted, you know, more than me. And so me basically like having this imaginary leash of, okay, you can go do that. But at the end of the day, you come back to me

because all I really wanted was comfort. And that's what I was really searching for is just like, yeah. And so I very quickly like pushed that out of my mind and I had to just say, is this better than the fear of being with somebody and running the risk of them doing that behind my back? No, it wasn't for me. I'd rather be, to be completely honest, cheated on or something in that realm than to know that it's happening while he's with me. I'd rather know about it after it happened and I'd be upset, but I'd be able to move on. I don't want to have like a repeated thing happening with me knowing because that's not what I really want. But that's a control thing.

And I had to be real with myself and say, this is really a control thing for me. And you can't control those things all the time. You know, if something's going to happen, it's going to happen. And yeah, just being, I think that's, that was kind of it for me. So now I'm in a non, very non-open relationship. Close. Yeah. You make a lot of good points too. And again, again, if you are into it and this is your thing that you want to try, fine. But I do think there's a lot of situations and I think maybe it's more women do it than men.

But don't try to be the cool chick or the cool girlfriend. I'll bite you in the ass. I can be cool with this and I can be down because I'm cool. I'm not jealous or whatever. Don't be guilted into that because I do think that happens. Maybe not necessarily with open relationships, but other things.

Again, trust your gut. You know what's okay and you know what's not. There's one thing of being a jealous person and having your partner come home drunk every night at four in the morning, hanging out with a bunch of people, women that aren't you. Right. Like that happening. Like there's simps, there's things that you just know that aren't okay. It's one thing for your ex to bump, your partner to bump into an ex and have a cup of coffee and catch up. It's another thing to saying, Hey babe, do you mind if I have dinner with someone who I like just broke up with? You know, these, we know what's right or wrong. And so I think maybe that doesn't apply to you, but for the people listening in these

situations, if you're going to do it, it's got to be your decision. I feel like a successful open relationship. I have friends who are actually like full blown into this and I feel like they actually, the successful ones happen without them even being spoken about because it's so natural for both parties involved that the conversation really is never even talked about because it's like they're so that is their life like that is actually who they are to the bone and so like it flows in and out and it just works so well there really is never anything that anything problematic that comes up because they're so actually happy with what they're doing and they actually love each other and they're going in and out. And I feel like

that's really successful. But if you kind of already feel these reservations and there has to be things that, you know, your absolutes that aren't even being like met already, I feel like it's probably a red flag. Yeah. The contract. I mean, I agree with you. I mean, I have friends in unique relationships. They don't not, not talk about it, but they came into a relationship already being on that page and having those expectations. So it's kind of like, okay, you, yeah, great. We know how this network's. And this contract, to me, is a red flag of you're already starting. Like, yeah, it's like in business.

It's smart to have a contract because it's business or whatever. Yeah, it's like in business, it's smart to have a contract because it's business or whatever. But if you have to go into this contract, it sounds like there's a lot of anxiety about trust. And who came up with the contract? I'm curious to know about that. I did. Honestly, we were having those open conversations anyway. I went out with a girl last week and I would say, you know, I met this new guy. So we were having those conversations anyway. Like you would, you know, I went out with a girl last week and I would say, you know, I met this new guy. So we were having those conversations anyway. Um, what I put in the contract was sexual boundaries, emotional boundaries and, um, conversation topics. So it was really important for me to acknowledge that jealousy isn't a monster and that I can

talk about it and I shouldn't be ashamed for having jealousy and it goes both ways. Right. And even if he's not the right person to have an open relationship with, if this is something that you really do want, maybe it's just not with him. Maybe it's with somebody else. Maybe somebody that can do all those things without even having to have a contract and makes you feel so secure about it where you don't even have to get to this point. So maybe it is for you. Maybe it's just not him.

Yeah, I think that's a great pop probability. Yeah, totally. Awesome. Well, hopefully that was helpful. Well, thanks. I'll take you guys. All right. Let us know.

All right, I will. Bye. I'm Jordan. Jordan. This is Sophia and Courtney. Hi. My name is Nick. Hi, it's me, Jordan. Jordan. This is Sophia and Courtney. Hi. My name is Nick. Hi.

How can we help you? So the question I had emailed in with, it's, I don't know, I feel like it is kind of weird, but it's also kind of the society that we live in now with social media. But so basically I have a crush on this guy at work. And the kind of like way this whole thing started was before Christmas. We had, I started jokingly talking around at work.

We had this weird inside joke that involved food. And prior to me leaving for vacation for christmas i had sent him secretly sent him a box of food and made a joke don't starve while i'm gone um and he searched me out on instagram while i was on vacation and he um he messaged me thank you for the gift told me how much he appreciated, blah, blah. We talked back and forth about Christmas, vacations, whatever. And then the conversation kind of ended. And that was fine.

And then I added him on Instagram after that. But he never added me. And both of our accounts are on private. So he really kind of had to search to find my account. He also had to accept you and then not follow you back yeah yeah so I was like whatever that's fine like he obviously doesn't feel the same way I like moved like I was like all right whatever moving on well then when I got back he and this has been two months now to this March um he always makes the point to talk to me when he sees me

um if we're like feet across the room from each other he will like hardcore smile be like hi like wave me down to say hi um and we always have like good not really like deep in-depth conversation in any way but like we talk we joke we like he I don't know just always makes a point to make conversation ask questions things like that um and we've also still communicated every once in a while on Instagram if he posts something that I don't know I find funny or whatever I make a comment. And we joke back and forth about it. But still doesn't ever follow me on Instagram. And I, like, for the most part, try not to think too much of it. However, my friends and I have this conversation. And we're just like, this is weird.

Like, why do you do that? Or why would people do that? And it's just, I don't know. I realize it's a way that it kind of plays into insecurity. What's your relationship status? Exactly. I was going to say, are you feeling friend vibes? Or is it like, is it romantic?

Have you talked about that? Or like? With him? Yeah. Are you flirting? Are you flirting? Or are you? Okay.

So you're like friends. It definitely has flirty vibes. Okay. And that's where I'm kind of like, okay, this is weird, but like no move has been made by either one of us to take it further than that. Okay. And for me, it's like, I kind of debate with it seeing as how we do work together. Yeah. Because that can can you know

sometimes get dicey however he does come off as a very mature person that if you know something were to happen there would be a serious conversation had about this never you know comes into our work life this state personal outside of work whatever um but yeah i don't know the whole thing is just interesting. And it's just with this day and age that we're in where social media is such a, you know, relatively big part of our lives. I was just curious what your guys' feedback was on that. Does he, I mean, and I, I, I'm not, I don't do this because I'm just so like, I'm just so inept when it comes to like searching things and looking for flags on Instagram. But I think it would be important to maybe see who he follows and see if he

follows anybody from work, like primarily female. Yeah. And if it's just you. Sounds like she's in a research. Right. Oh, she has. I never do this. I never do that. It's not just females that he will follow at work. It's like multiple people. There's guys on there.

Okay, this is friend vibes. There's guys on there. Like, I do know that he follows people from work. So it's not a work-related thing. And is it primarily women or men that he follows? It's a very good mix of both. Okay. How old are you two?

We're both 25. Okay. I mean, I think you're both 25 okay i mean i think you should just ask like i think you should just talk to him have a conversation communicate with him if you like him tell him you know what i mean i don't know if you even like him are you to that point are you just like you're cool with being just like flirty what do you really want i i would like to go on a date with no like serious expectations like if it if we vibe really well and the date seems to go really well then sure let's continue you know to see where this goes otherwise if we go on a date and it's just being you know hey this is like let's just stay friends or let's just leave it as is like then that then that's fine too. I think I don't try to put, you know, all my eggs in one basket just based on one interaction, one date, things like that.

Interesting. If you stopped communicating with them through Instagram and you really just kind of started to, in a very friendly way, enjoy other people at your work and see what happens. Because sometimes when we're really available for somebody um it's easy for them to kind of cast us aside and not really think of us as like an option because we're so readily available i think if you kind of like kind of kind of don't put i'm like but don't play games too you know yeah yeah no i agree i agree i think

i think courtney is about to agree with what I'm about to say. Listen, here's what I think. Yeah. I think him not following you is not nothing. It's something. Yeah. But we don't know what it is because you're just making a lot of assumptions about a situation you don't even know where you stand. Yeah, exactly. You're just guessing.

Maybe he's doing it to play games and he likes you and he's not following you to like not give you the power. Maybe he doesn't want you, maybe he doesn't like you in senses that you do. And so he's doing it to keep it. I don't know, but you don't know either. And so instead of trying to figure it out or play games, you're going to have to put yourself out there. You might have to put yourself out there when people say, well, I want to go on a date, but with no any serious expectations. If you go on a date, there's expectations. There's some expectations of, I want to get to know you and see if we like each other. And because you work together, there's a risk. There's a risk of making it weird. And it might be something he said. He might follow every woman at work because he doesn't get a sense that they like him. And maybe he gets a sense that

you do. I don't know. This perception of he's flirting with you, maybe, maybe he's uncomfortable and trying to be nice and not wanting to be a dick. Guys do that too. Because like, I know she likes me, so I don't want to be a dick. And I'm just going to say hi and flirty. And you've gotten yourself in a situation that you are talking your friends too much about. You're wondering and trying to dissect every little thing.

You just need to put yourself out there if you want to at the risk of it not going the way you want. And just ask. And just ask. And maybe give them a shit, but they're going to follow me or what. Or by the way, we should go on a just ask and maybe give him a shit they're gonna follow me or what or by the way we should go on a date i don't know i'm just like or ask me if he has a girlfriend do you even know does he have a girlfriend i mean he could be in a relationship

you know and that's why he's not following you i mean i'm just okay i don't think so he um well you don't know yeah from what i've seen when he like he does post a lot of Instagram stories, he's definitely out with a lot of friends. But there's never been any girls that I've seen in the videos. But I mean, obviously, that could be that he just doesn't post things about her or things like that. But as far as I know, I don't think there is. I think, too, like, okay, yes, it did sound a bit like I was trying to play games. You're right, though, in some situations. fair it i think too like okay yes it did sound a bit like i was trying to play games the way that i look at it it adds is just a different approach to kind of suck out the truth so you can move on so basically like instead of looking at it like you're playing games by like not you're not ignoring him and you're not like you know

talking to other people to make them jealous it's not that it's about just directing your attention to non-romantic things at the moment and just like enjoying your friends and being more about that in that moment and just like yeah enjoying your girlfriends your guy friends and just not thinking about that so much because sometimes when you are thinking about things romantically it's very you know visible like it's very you know you give off an energy and it's a presence and I feel like people can sense that and it makes them uncomfortable sometimes so I feel like when you're just your normal self and really not thinking about those things people are kind of drawn to you sometimes because they're like oh she's like existing with without all of that and

I think maybe that could maybe just kind of take out the truth a little bit for you you don't have to think of it as a game but one thing I think that girls don't tell other girls enough, and because we're always on Instagram, looking through followers, watching stories, you know, trying to find patterns. Girl, if you want to know like what's going on, you have got to just ask him. You have got to ask, you know?

And I swear to God, you'll have all the answers you need. I agree with Korty. I think Sophia is right in the sense, I think it's more of a useful tactic when, and we've had other callers where you find yourself early in this dating relationship, you've hung out, you've dated,

maybe hooked up, but he's playing games and not committing. Then that fallback I think is very effective. Jordan doesn't even know what the hell's going on. She doesn't even know this guy's in a relationship. And I think the, I think the overall outcome of this call is to Courtney's point, you know, court Instagram and figuring out social media,

yes, it's prevalent. It is a reality that people use as a tool, but it shouldn't be your main point. It's certainly when you get most information, you're getting all this information and guessing about Instagram, which we all know is not a reality. It's a perception of reality and the reality that we choose to show people. Um, and that's everyone. So you, like I said, you're going to have to put yourself out there. You're going to have to find out. Um, and you're going to have to risk not getting the answer you want and realizing because you work with this guy, that's a stickier situation. There's more, you know, it's not like asking the guy that you run into once a week at the grocery store and then just don't go grocery shopping on a Tuesday

when he says no. You work with the guy. Yeah. And too, sometimes like certain, like both men and women, but like, you know, you said you sent him a basket, right? Like of the food and it's like a joke. That's something very, that's something I would so do.

Like something that can almost be considered forward. And sometimes people get scared by that. They're like, wait, they were feeling something and then that might throw them off completely and be like, whoa, like this is too much for me. But if someone were to do that to me, I'd be like, I, this is amazing. But like, you know.

I'm in love. I'm in love. But I think like sometimes that scares people and it rattles them and they don't know how to like, they don't know how to perceive that or to like how to take that on. Also, when I say ask him, I'm not saying like ask him like, do you want to be with me? Like, do you like me? I mean, just ask him questions.

Like, so what's up? Do you have a girlfriend? Like, you know, ask him general things to get to know him. It's not like an end all be all situation, but just kind of ease yourself into the situation. Yeah, you'd be sly about it too. Like, you know know your girlfriend at night you're gonna have some friends make a joke

you know what I mean totally it's okay it's okay to be the dominant one I mean you don't always have to feel like you have to sit there

and you know like I mean I know it's very traditional I mean I'm very forward like I'm if I like somebody I just stare at them until they look at me

you know like I just I'll go say something like this girl's kind of so you want to go on a date or not do you love me yeah right but I'm forward so I don't think that it's a bad thing that you did those things you shouldn't necessarily you should definitely not feel bad about it I don't know where to look you're on two screens so I'm gonna just like keep going back for it but I feel like you should feel good about yourself

and how you express yourself. And don't ever feel like you have to change yourself, you know, or your tactics for somebody else. I keep calling them tactics. But I feel like if that's the way that you show somebody you like them, then keep doing that. And when someone responds to that, then that's your person.

Shoot your shot, Jordan. That's right. Yeah. All right, I'll do it. Girl, do it. I'm supporting you, Jordan. That's right. Yeah. All right. I'll do it. Girl, do it. I'm supporting you, girl. No matter what happens,

you'll feel better about putting yourself out there. Totally, yeah. Okay, so this is an email from an anonymous fan. She said she's been with her boyfriend for a while

and their relationship is great, but she realized when they first started dating that she's the opposite of what his type usually was. He only dated Asian girls

before her and follows Asian Instagram models. And she's a bit more filled out Irish girl. She says she feels like her relationship is good and he gives her no worries, but there's a little voice in the back of her head that maybe he's not fully attracted to her. How does she stop feeling this way? I'm fascinated by this because I think this is relatable for everyone. I don't know if this is a, I, people have types and sometimes we mature and get away from our type. And it's a weird thing to date someone and find out. Yeah. I look nothing like anyone you've ever dated. How does that affect us? Being someone who might be sometimes looked at as that page,

you know, where, you know, for my job, I have to post a lot of like bikini photos or things that might be perceived as sexy, but I'm trying to inspire like a healthy, you know, healthy eating or whatever it is or exercising. I think there's two questions that are super important. Yeah. I think you've got to kill that voice in the back of your head.

You know, just like robbing you of happiness straight up. There is that part of it too. It's just like if you date someone, maybe you have a type, and we all realize that sometimes our types don't work out for us. Right. So maybe we are challenged. The person you're dating is challenging themselves to, you know, like this particular person's into Asian women, fine.

Or maybe it's taller or shorter, darker, whatever it is. Yeah. I would look at that as almost like, wow. There's some growth. There's something. Yeah. Like I'm the one that kind of changed the flow. And like, I obviously have someone, okay. It's just like trying something over and over and over again and changing like a small variable.

Right. Maybe that should show you that that was a very unsuccessful pattern and you know like i would i would look at that as a positive actually to be completely honest i don't know if this is appropriate to say but my my second um serious boyfriend when i first moved out here all of his ex flings girlfriends were nothing short of porn stars and sometimes they were porn stars um like just huge silicone from head to toe their toes were literally silicone um and so I feel like me coming into that you know um it was I already had like the the things going on with me you know wanting to get like my boobs out and stuff so that made me feel like oh wow well if I get them out

will he still like me you know this is this is my only thing that I have that I'm clinging to. And so I think that could have made me go down a really dangerous path. Like obviously she can't turn into an Asian, you know, person, like, but like, I feel like I could have very well looked at that and been like, well, maybe I need to plump up my lips or maybe I need to get my nose job because it's crooked. Or maybe I need to, you know, get implants in my butt or whatever it is. And I feel like that's super dangerous and that's just not real to you. So I think guys can feel that that can happen the other way. But I agree with Sophia. Like, ultimately, I guess there's a chance that you are like some sort of like fling or trial and error.

But most more, I think more likely than not, it could be some growth on their part and regardless it's really just your ego and insecurities like you know just chirping up and and making you second guess yourself um I think we all want to be physically desired by our partners and so there's there's that and there's that insecurity or ego saying well they're not that's, they can't possibly be because they used to always date this person. But sometimes we can get in the habit too. Like sometimes we develop a type because it's the first person we date. It's comfortable. It's comfortable. There's a million reasons why someone might have a perceived type, but that type can change. We evolve as people as we get older. I think more often than not, it's something to like what Courtney and Sophia said.

It's something we have to challenge ourselves to get over and not project it on our partner. Especially in this person, she seems like he's not doing anything to, the only thing he's doing wrong, well, other than maybe the Instagram. But in that situation, to segue into that, I think it's reasonable to voice, you know, you can follow, I have a lot of model friends. You know them. I know them, and I follow them. And if I, actually, I had this happen.

I recently was going out with this girl, and I had a really nice time. We had a nice date, and she's, I mean, she's stunning. She's a she was a she's stunning she's a babe and again the thought of what could she possibly insecure about and date two I actually before date two after date one she sends a text she's like so you follow like she was stalking my page and I was like oh god she's like oh no and I'm like i i these are all my friends also like yeah and i my

friends in terms of like i haven't like hooked up with it like i you know i might like i might or maybe i went on a date or whatever and we're just like we're cool and we follow each other and i didn't like weirdly unfollow them and like nothing happened you know those people i feel like i've literally gotten emails and messages from girls who follow me, who maybe they started following me because they wanted to become vegan. They wanted to know how to do it. And maybe, um, they were sometimes too, like people go through chronic illnesses and they know that like changing their diet can help in certain ways and whatnot. And I'll like work with these girls and I'll email them back and forth, help their families. And then all of a sudden something weird will happen.

And there'll be like, yeah, you know, I was telling my boyfriend about you and how great you are and how we're like doing this thing together. And like you're helping me. And then he started following you and liking all your pictures. I'm not mad at you, but I feel like insecure about this. And since we're so close, I want to like ask like how should I feel about that? And so then it makes you feel like as the person who, you know, is putting these images out or whatever, it's like, oh, I don't want to be the reason why somebody has a fight about me or this or that, but it would be somebody else. There's layers there. And that's what's interesting is because like in that situation, right? So that's, let's say this girl I went on a date with, let's say we started dating, we got in a relationship.

I don't, I'm not a jealous person and I want my partner to not be jealous overall. Like we can have jealous moments. But so if she was like, if I went in a relationship and immediately she was like, all right, I want to date you. But before we date, I need you to unfollow all these women that I'm potentially threatened by. That would be a red flag for me. Now, if she was like, hey, listen, if she was, if let's say I would, I follow some women who I know I've met, you know, casually, even at a party, we follow each other. I pay no attention to it. And she's like, listen, this girl, like you barely know her or whatever.

And she posts some like other pictures. It would like, fine, I'm not going to make you unfollow them. But like you start liking them. There's a perception, especially because other friends can notice what people follow. And I can understand how that would be like, it makes me uncomfortable that you're liking these pictures of her in this bikini and my mom and sisters are scenes it looks like you're as a guy you're like you see this and go oh like I can see that I can see that to be a realistic thing that someone could be like I'm uncomfortable with that and I do think in relationships it's okay to voice things that

you aren't comfortable with yeah I think it's open to have a discussion about like, or maybe just say like, I want to understand this. I'm insecure. And right or wrong, I feel this way. What is the relationship? I think that's normal. I don't think it was normal for that girl I went on one date with to be like, why do you follow all these like skanky girls? And I'm just like. She's insecure, for sure.

Yeah, sure. And she actually acknowledged that but I'm like weird okay so I think there is a balance there right like it's the following them but like you don't have to like you know like well if I weren't in this realm if I didn't have this as

my job and I maybe was doing what I was doing back in Texas going to medical school and maybe like I wasn't really big on Instagram and my boyfriend just followed nothing but just, not just, you know, girls in bikinis, but girls who were like overtly posting just twerking videos or maybe just like, you know, just like, I mean, things that are, why are you following these people, right? I would say, I would have a problem with that. Yeah, that was in the details.

Yeah. I would have a huge problem with that. I'd be like, what, what the heck? And I wouldn't even say anything. I'd just bounce. Like, I wouldn't try problem with that. I'd be like, what, what the heck? And I wouldn't even say anything. I just bounce. Like I wouldn't try to fix it. I'd be like later. So, um, I feel like it's different, you know, when you're in the industry, you meet these people and you know, these people, but I think, um, I think that's alarming. Like, what are you, why are they following these people? Because they like, want to like see these things and then like project it on the person that they're with because it's so unreachable it's so untouchable from where they live or what they're doing I and again like a lot

of my followers are male so then what am I asking for everybody who's in a relationship to just unfollow me and then that kind of like you know it's not good for you mark the date I'm like devil's advocate does that shit even really matter like I'm not trying to say like if my boyfriend was like liking pictures, like, yeah, I mean, sometimes I can feel a little weird about it. But if I have a good relationship with someone and like, I'm happy and like,

sex is great, everything's great. I don't care. You know what I mean? I don't know. Maybe it's like, I'm so secure that I'm not tripping. It can vary. I think it's person to person. I don't think there's a,

I don't think there's a hundred percent right or wrong. But I guess what I think when I talk about it, it's just like, what is a reasonable, because it is different. Like you are entitled to have it not. But I do think, because I think we can all agree, the girl I went on a date with, who like after date two, like called me out weirdly.

That's a red flag. It's not normal and like, whatever. But it is normal to say, hey, listen, help me understand this. We're on date four. I think there's something there. I want to get to know you. In this situation, he's dated only Asian women.

He's following a bunch of Asian women accounts and liking them. I can see why that's bringing up an insecurity. I think it would be normal. I think it would be unreasonable for her to have a conversation with him and say listen you made me feel great whatever but like when you're liking these pictures I think there's because I don't know like it sounds almost trivial that we're talking about it but like liking because like once I follow someone I don't give it much thought I don't like to unfollow them but liking them is

like this kind of reminder that you have to do that. You have to do that. So you can just not like that. And I can see why people would get insecure about the constantly engaging in someone else's Instagram account if it's a potentially threatening account. Because it's like you are in reality every day, right? With this person. And then you escape to another reality. And that they shouldn't be,

I think that they should be looked at as both important. Like you shouldn't be able to have this avatar life where you just get to escape and plug into this matrix and then have this thing. But it's okay because I come back to you. I think it's a fusion of both. And I think it's reflective of who you are. I mean, if someone posts nothing but skanky photos online and I see them in person, I'm going to remember them as the person who were just posting a whole bunch of skanky photos online and I see them in person, I'm going to remember them as the person who were just posting a whole bunch of skanky photos.

No matter if they're, you know, not wearing that bikini going, you know, around a Starbucks. I mean, it's like it's the same. It's the same thing to me. And I think it's dangerous to like post things on Instagram that you wouldn't do in reality. Because then I think that that I think that's dangerous for me. But I think it would be important for her to vocalize that to him because maybe she'd be bringing up something to him that he maybe, although it sounds crazy, isn't even aware of.

So I think that's important. Yeah, and it's also how that conversation happens, how they handle it. And I also think on the flip side, it could be a red flag if you start dating a guy, he's following all these accounts. You realize he doesn't really know them. Or maybe he does know them and maybe he's hooked up with some of them. And he's actively liking them. And then you like just maybe like in like a few dates and try to understand it.

And he gets defensive. And he's like, well, you're jealous, like whatever. Then that's a red flag there too. It all just depends on how he handles it and how like tightly they hold on to something. I had an ex-boyfriend or someone that I was with for four months um he followed just tons of like instagram accounts like that even some girls who were like cam girls and i never said anything about it girl suit yeah cam girls and three days into us like really just saying like yeah i'm exclusive with you we're not dating but whatever i noticed that all of his followers like dropped he stopped following i see all these people and I was like what is that and I looked and all those girls were gone I think that

was a great sign and I actually liked that I was about to say that too because in an ideal situation again there's a difference between like expressing your insecurities and seeing what your partner does about it because again I would want the person I'm about to date to say hey listen I help me understand talk to me about it and be like I don't person I'm about to date to say hey listen I help me understand talk to me about it and be like I don't know I kind of knew them or whatever and it's reason like you can understand insecurities and then as a it's a again you hope that person wants to do it because I would want to be like I would it would bother me if a girl was like well I need you to unfollows now what I would want is the opportunity to be like listen I don't need to follow these

people and on the off chance of bugs for the wrong way like I'm just gonna unfollows now. What I would want is the opportunity to be like, listen, I don't need to follow these people. And on the off chance it bugs her the wrong way, like I'm just going to unfollow them. Because even if I offend the people I unfollow, my priority is her. And I want to do that because her feelings matter to me. And she didn't make me do it. She expressed her insecurity. She vocalized it. We communicated. And to me, that's a great like start to the beginnings of a relationship where you are now openly talking about the things that bug you and don't bug you things that and then how that person responds to you being vulnerable with your insecurities is a great sign of how relationships going forward like making expectations and demands and then like getting defensive art is the opposite of that so i i think that like that how did that

make you feel when you did that oh i was like was like, that's, that's awesome. Yeah. Right. I didn't even talk about it though. I didn't do anything like that. In fact, a month later he was like, Hey, like, I remember like you saying that you hooked up with this person and you follow them. Like that kind of, you know, hurts my feelings because like, you know, we, I don't know, whatever reason it hurt his feelings. And I was like, it was kind of funny. Cause I was like, wow, like you were the first one to kind of like say something. I didn't even have to say anything. And so I so easily just unfollowed that person. Cause it made him feel a certain way. And I remembered like he did that for me. So, yeah. So that's, I think that's great. I mean, I think we should try to do more of that

than the, the opposite of, and not being upset with people for having a past like gosh if we can't if we can't get over the fact that maybe someone has lived a different life before you or like everyone's changing and we should be okay with people changing like change is a good thing so like if somebody was one way and hook up with a lot of people okay like you don't have to be with them but if you're going to stay with them be happy with the progression like right for sure awesome well I if you're going to stay with them, be happy with the progression. Right, for sure. Awesome. Well, I think we're going to wrap up. This was another great episode, I think.

I just want to thank you ladies for coming. We talked a lot about it. I should have talked about a lot of other things. I want to thank you both for being so honest and vulnerable about talking about insecurities that you guys have. And I think it's important for the people listening that no matter where you come from, what you think about yourself or what you perceive others to be and what they think about themselves, we all kind of come from a place of our own insecurities and we should be cognizant of it.

And as young men and guys, we should just be mindful about the women we're dating and the insecurities that they have and think before we speak. And hopefully we can also just communicate better. So again, ladies, thank you for being a part of this conversation. For those of you listening, we appreciate your reviews on iTunes and on YouTube if you want to watch us. We are also on Spotify. Thanks for listening. Natural Habits, NHLs.com. Make it natural for 20% off.

And we'll see you next week. Fight climate change. Nice.