The Viall Files - E1001 – Going Deeper with Jessie James and Eric Decker

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  You know them, you like them, and after this interview, you’ll love them. Jessie James and Eric Decker join the show for a deep dive into their relationship, parenting, having children in the public eye, their time on Special Forces, and more! You won’t want to miss it.  “When you want to be a mother, you know." Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Mint Mobile - Get 3-months of Unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month at https://mintmobile.com/viall  Thrive Market - Go to https://thrivemarket.com/viall to get 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift. CashApp - For a limited time only, new Cash App customers can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real. Just download Cash App, use our exclusive referral code SECURE10 in your profile, send $5 to a friend within 14 days, and you’ll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That’s Money. That’s Cash App. Live It Up - Live It Up is offering you 15% off your first order — including subscriptions — with code VIALL. Plus shipping’s always free. Head to https://letsliveitup.com/viall and use code VIALL for 15% off your first Super Greens order! Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @jessiejamesdecker @ericdecker  

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Limited time, new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on a limited plan. Taxing the fees to extra C-MitMobile for details. You're crazy. Don't text your ex, happy birthday. Written by yours, truly. Oh, wow. You copy that. Yeah, yeah.

Are you texting your exes a lot? Nobody don't have anything. That's not safe. Do you even have any? I feel like I've been together for a lot. He really doesn't. Well, Jesse, Eric, welcome to the show. Yeah.

Great to have you guys. Yeah, I'm excited to have you both ever since I had this show. Certainly I've known about you both as a couple, as individuals. I'm a huge football fan. So certainly I've followed your career, Eric and Jesse, obviously, as a member of pop culture, certainly many of our audience members are huge fans of you guys. And so we're just excited to have you, you know, just kind of get to know you guys a little bit better. You guys were on special forces as a couple. Yes. And obviously, like, with this show, Nali and I, you know, I work with my wife. I brought around in the show, you know, once we got together. I'm always just like excited and

interested to talk to like couples like you who, you know, publicly facing, you know, present such a united front. You know, you guys present as a team and seemingly work as a team. And I think, especially nowadays, I think it's just really important to highlight, you know, all the people, you know, who make that effort in their relationship, knowing just how much, I don't know much about your guys' relationship, what you guys do, you know, behind closed door. but I do know that if you guys are making it work, you guys bust your ass to make your relationship work because I feel like that's how, that's what it takes. And so, yeah, just excited to have you guys and just get to get, have my audience get to know

you guys a little bit better. But so welcome. Thank you. Yeah. I liked that intro. It was so deep to begin with. It was so deep. Yeah, well, it's called going deeper, you know.

I love it. When you said behind closed doors, I was thinking, just making babies going. You did. You would go there. You would go there. Well, you know. You know, that's part of it. That is part of it.

A bit far. I mean, I was thinking about that last night, like, thinking about you guys. You know, I'm a new father. I'm 44. A river's only 19 months. I've always wanted to be a dad my whole life. But obviously, it wasn't until I got married, met Natalie, that it felt like the right time. I got to say, you know, as someone who's always wanted to be a dad, what being a dad meant to me is this like, or being a husband is having something in your life that, quite honestly, like, you love more than yourself. Like, you you know, there's that selfless energy where you wake up and, you know, you wake up with a purpose outside of like, what do I need to do for me today? You know, like, what's going to make me happy today? And I don't think I've ever been happier in my life than having something to wake up that has nothing to do with my immediate and individual needs. For me, being a father and being a husband has truly, like, been one of the most rewarding things for that reason where it's just like, yeah, you have a purpose in life. And I don't know if that's how you, if that resonates with you guys, but it's definitely been something for me that I've really enjoyed.

100%. I think until you become a parent, you don't realize how it's the greatest, you know, a role in your life. And you have to become completely unselfish because, you know, as a little baby, they need so much of you, but it is so fulfilling. Like, it's the hardest thing. Let's not get that twisted. It's extremely hard, especially as you have more kids and just a responsibility. And it kind of validates purpose in life. You know, it kind of minimizes everything else. So for me, I was playing when we had our first couple of kids. And, you know, I think I just struggled with how do I give effort to football when I feel

like my duty as a husband and as a father is more important. And so, you know, I started to realize I was teetering on what energy I was giving to my career. And now I get to be home with the kids a lot more. And how did you balance that? It was tough because you really did struggle with that. I remembered. I'd never seen him as a father. I knew he was a great husband and he was a great partner.

You could tell he battled it a lot playing football. He would truly come home after playing a football game and want to bathe the kids and put them to bed instead of sitting in a chair, which he would have been totally allowed to do 100%. He would have absolutely been allowed to do that. Come home. put your feet up in a lazy boy ice your body i'll bring you some dinner and like you worked hard today but that wasn't him he'd be limping upstairs on his knees bathing the kids because it just meant that much to him and i could tell he battled that internally because he is such an amazing dad

he didn't love some of the the long hours or training camp of being away from the kids for weeks and like you know it's just a lot of moments like that you could tell it was an internal struggle for him and y'all were yeah i feel like you just posted your ages when you had all your babies how Were you all when you had your first daughter? 25, about to be 26. Yeah, because we got married when I was 25, you were 26, and we had Vivian March, and I was 26 April. How did you guys meet?

You were a mutual friend. Yeah. It was like nothing crazy. He was in his, he was finishing up his rookie year in the NFL, and I was on tour. I... And in that phase of life, we were like, we're going to be single forever. Yeah. Yeah.

We're going to enjoy this part of our life. Yeah. I'd gotten out of some, like, a relationship. and he had gotten out of like childhood relationship, like a high school sweetheart, and we both just were like, okay, now we're both going to be single and just like live it up. And I'd like made that vow. I feel like he had made that vow. And within days of making that vow internally, we like were introduced to each other.

He was training in Arizona. I was living in Nashville. And this person, her name is Leanna, set us up. She was hanging out with one of his buddies. She knew me, knew I was newly single. And we ended up talking on the phone and I chatting. for like a month and it was like almost like love is blind where you just get to know each other the late night talks hours and hours like we just couldn't get enough of each other yeah we were

something like Natalie lived in Savannah when we met I've always enjoyed that aspect when I was dating of actually meeting someone almost who doesn't live yes by you you know because it's so easy especially nowadays it's just come over you start making out whatever yeah we for sure would have been The physical chemistry is just like, ah, but now you, yeah, you're forced to talk and you get to know each other. Build that excitement and tension. We had a very similar vibe. Yeah, I'm grateful for that time frame because we would have been the same. I honestly feel like I would not have been able to control myself.

Do you all remember the first time you met in person? I'm glad that was the question that you're going to assume or the first time you did it. Well, do you also remember the person they did. Of course I do. I could never forget that. What was the question? Sorry, I was out of clusters. We went back, we met, she didn't pick me up from the airport.

First of all, I scheduled a flight, and I'm like Midwest, so I'm super frugal. She made me change my flight. Don't blame your frugal nickname for the Midwest. She's already making me change in my flight back. I was in the studio. You're in the hole already. I fly in. She has her friend pick me up because she's at the studio.

And we drive to Green Hills and Kalamadas was the first. place we met and she came off the door. I'm like, oh my gosh, she's so tiny. And my thought was he's so big. She was tiny. And obviously, butterflies. You were sweating. You were nervous. I was sweating the whole first weekend. You were. He was so nervous. I don't know why. I feel like I could make you feel warm and fuzzy, but he was definitely like, was it like awkward or was it like it was awkward. It was for sure awkward. Because we'd been talking for, you know, for so long, but I just, I don't know, we just had this thing immediately. We have this thing immediately and I think that we both felt it.

I was a little bit more guarded than he was. I mean, after that weekend, he left. And I remember him sitting in me texting like, I'm deleting every girl out of my phone now. I want to see where this can go. Like, what do you think? And I remember writing him back saying, like, I don't know, I just met you. I need to think on that. Love.

She played hard again. I love both those responses. because, I mean, what made you send that? I'm curious because what's the cliche, like, athlete? You're a good-looking guy. You're a big athlete, you're making money. You're in the NFL. I'm assuming you had a lot of women in your DMs.

You had a lot. I'm sure it was not hard to meet women. And I think a lot of men who aren't even professional athletes will certainly do whatever they can to keep the roster as long as possible and prolong it and play the whole like, well, hey, I like you, but like, let's see where it goes. And I just, I just want to date, but you went full court press. Is that something that was just always a part of you? Or did that speak to like your interest in Jesse or both? I think, you know, I'm a relationship guy overall, but I try to play like, you know, I still want to go on a week and trips to my buddies

and try to play it cool. But like, she had me kind of chasing. And I think I just connected so deeply with her, which I haven't had ever to that point in my life. You know, no relationship was even near what we had. And so I would think I was just infatuated with that and feeling hurt and feeling like I trusted her already. Like I went to her over my parents to tell her things. And so I was like, this is crazy that I know her for five weeks. And like, I'm just, you know, obsessed in a sense.

So I think she just brought it and she just has it. But also, I feel like when you know, you know, and I just had that feeling that I knew. Because I was trying to resist it in fighting because I wanted to, you know, be single and young and you had a little money finally and could do my thing. But it was like, you know, I was just obsessed. And did you know, Jesse, like in your head, oh, I'm going to make him chase? Or were you just kind of like, I don't know. I'm in music. I'm touring right now. Like this isn't, this is fun. It wasn't like a little game at all in my mind. I think that to Nick's point, I knew he was this really gorgeous brand new Bronco GQ guy. I knew women were chasing him. And I just, I don't know.

I felt like if you want to come get it. I'm not going to work for this. I also, he chased really hard. And I had just gotten out of a relationship where someone, they had chased me really hard to. And it just overwhelmed me. I'm very independent and I don't like to feel smothered. And so I was nervous that he was coming on too strong initially. And so there was a lot of things. He was like, he's coming on too strong. I'm sure women are just like, drop. their pants for him. Like I just I just need to take a beat on this and I was just really focused on my stuff. But I also think I knew there was something with him. And so I just didn't want to let my heart dive in too soon because I was just kind of feeling it out. But I didn't want to get

hurt because I knew I felt something too. Like in 2025 terms like you would be like, he'd love bombing me. You know? Like I don't know. He's moving too fast and things like that. But like I'm glad to hear the story because, yes, there's a lot of sloppy men out there or people who get caught up in their feelings and maybe get a little careless. But I do think we need to hear stuff like this where you just like, you know, it's okay to go for what you like. You know, it's okay to put yourself out there and be vulnerable. And, you know, maybe there was a world where you guys didn't end up together or your feelings changed, you know, like that can be okay, you know, at the risk of like playing it cool for so long that you don't just like put yourself

out there and say, like, I really like you. And I want to see where this goes. And I don't want to mess with all these people who honestly, like, I don't know. I'm not that interested in. It's just a good time. But there's, there's something meaningful here. I feel like we need to hear more of that stuff. He definitely courted me. And knowing Eric now, and we've been together for 15 years now, Eric is very cautious about anything he does, anything he says, anything that he commits to, he's cautious because he doesn't like to be the guy that says he's going to do something and then doesn't do it or he's just a hesitant person because he likes to think everything through. So knowing Eric now, I can see why it was so out of character for him to jump in

as deep as he did with me. That's so not like you now sitting or thinking about. And then how long were you all dating before you proposed? After the first trip to Nashville, she came to Minnesota to visit, well, Iowa to visit her sister. And I drove her down. She met my family. I went down to meet her family. So three months after we met, I'm like, you're coming to Denver. Well, he didn't want me moving to L.A. She was moving to L.A. I was moving to L.A. One of my best friends was getting a divorce. And I knew she needed me. And I was just, I needed a break from Nashville. I had just lost my record deal. And I just needed like a change of scenery. And I wanted to go out there to write with some of the pop writers that I loved so much. And so I literally was at the

end of my lease and I was moving and he was like I will lose you out there and he just he wouldn't let me he's like you're moving with me to Denver and that was a big risk for me because I had nothing in Denver except for obviously the future love of my life but no work I'm like what am I doing but my heart just told me to do it so after three months I moved in with this guy and then he proposed to me that following March how did he propose in Vegas at the ACM awards so we were out there for the ACMs, but it was our year anniversary. Of meeting, yeah. And so breakfast in bed, coffee in bed was kind of our thing.

Yeah. And so I went to, like, the manager, I was like, listen, bring it up with our coffee and breakfast. So they bring the ring? The ring, yeah, with it. So when she opened it for her coffee or for breakfast, it was the ring. Well, next morning, fast forward, she pulls off the top. No ring.

I'm freaking out. I'm like, where is it? You know, so I'm calling. She's like, what's wrong with you? He's like panicked. I'm like, what? It's like, they were on my pancakes. Pretty much.

That's what I'm like, what? That's the blueberries. I'm like, this is fine. This is good. I'm talking to the lady, she's like, oh, are you ready for it? I'm like, I'm, like, this is a blowing assignment. You're like, your own speaker. Blown assignment.

Yeah. It was supposed to be brought up with the breakfast. So the bell hot man brings in. Yeah. So they bring waters up. Like, here we go. I'm like, too late. She's like, what is it?

I'm like, oh, come get it. It's, water's, waters. Water is just totally blown. And, you know, it didn't go as smooth, but it was thoughtful. It was very us. It's just us. This is how we roll. And then y'all just went to the, was the ASEMs before or after that?

Like, did y'all go to the A&M's engaged? Yeah. And then we got married the following June, June 22nd. Yeah. And then got pregnant with Vivi and found out I was pregnant July 22nd. And was that something where you got, like for us. We got engaged. And then it was like, all right, you know, whatever.

It was kind of like, I'm a little older than Natalie. And I just, Nick had never had a pregnancy scare before. It was like, doesn't even work. I don't know. We were just kind of getting a little like, I don't know, feeling good about us, I suppose, in a way where it was like, yeah, fuck it. Yeah. You know, you hear so many stories about people having a hard time conceiving and things like that. I'm like, I don't know, what if I, what if I can't, you know, first time.

Boom. Wow. Same zee. Yeah. Well, the thing is, she was kind of challenging. my swimmers too she's like we've been together long enough like you think we're not that careful you might need to go get checked out i'm like literally i'd said that to him it was like after we got married i was like honestly when we want to start trying you should go get checked we have not been careful for you know a while

so you're like why haven't i yeah yeah boom we got you're like bet you know yeah pretty much i want to wait about a year has it been easy to get pregnant for y'all have you struggled at all with any issues getting pregnant, or has it been pretty smooth sailing? We've been very blessed and fortunate. It's been, it's been easy. It's been every time we wanted, we didn't plan three out of the four. So it's just kind of happened. And then with Forrest, we did plan. And I remember coming out that day. I'm very in tune with my body. And I was like, listen, I'm ovulating today. If you want a third baby, today's your day. And then we got pregnant with Forrest that day. Wow. But we've been very fortunate, very blessed.

Because listen, I have best friends. My sister had some trouble as well. And, I mean, she couldn't get pregnant for three years. She ended up adopting, you know. And so I know what a blessing it is that we've been able to conceive. And I know it's been harder than ever this generation, you know. And I feel for it because when you want to be a mother, it's just like, you just, mother. You know.

Yeah. Or do you think y'all are done? The shop is closed. Shop is closed. He got snips. Yeah. So we are good with three. because the ages of our kids

are 11, 10, 7 and then we got 19 months as well. So I had my surgery planned. I got a little nervous. I didn't go. And then boom. Number four. Yeah, he doesn't do well with blood or fluids or anything.

So he was afraid of going to this appointment. But I ended up going to Italy with my mom. I took her to Sicily and we went and visited family. It was just this amazing trip, but I was gone 10 days too many. And the day I came back. And you were out deleted. And we got pregnant.

I know. And I knew it too. I knew it. I came after that. I came out of the bath, the bathroom. And I was like, I'm pretty sure. He pounced.

I'm pretty sure. You just impregnated me. You knew. And I knew it. What a blessing, though. It was a blessing. Oh, my God. I can't even imagine life without Denver.

Do you have three girls and a boy? Three boys and a girl. Three boys and a girl. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Lots of boys. Our girls yell this, which works out because I feel like they,

set the tone. Yes, she does. That's the tone. She's in charge. Really? She's the boss lady for sure. How do y'all? We're kind of obviously in this, like, you know, we showed River all over social media.

And then it kind of got to a point where we would go to the park and they would be like, oh, my God, I saw River going down the slide. And I, like, knew y'all had to be here. Or we'd be in the airport. And people would be like, oh, my gosh, I recognized River before I even saw you. I've had that. And so it kind of got a little like, oh, this is weird. So we've only started showing like the back of her head.

It's obviously such a hard place to navigate because you want to share, you know, you're proud of your kids. You want to share moments. You like want to brag on them. You want to show like what they're doing and how cute they are. How did you all kind of manage that? You know, I feel like early on we did show them. And then I went through a phase of not showing them much at all.

And it was after I think we got accused of photoshopping abs on our children. I was like, what? No, for sure. Yeah. Seriously, it ended up like on the view in GMA. I mean, it was all over the place. It was just a photo of my kids on vacation. And they accused us of painting on ads.

I'm just like. What is it? They're fit. I don't know. Look at the daddy. Like, he's so athletic. I don't know what you know who to say. I feed him good.

I feed him good. They work out. They're running drills. You know, they work. They're athletic. Like, I don't know. Anyway, so after that, we took a beat and then I kind of got back into the phase of like, I'm not going to let these people dictate how I want to live my life. And people are always going to have something to say.

It's just part of it. I feel like this is just the world we're living in. This is the generation of the social media. You've got to put out what's comfortable to you, not put out what's comfortable to you. I have the same thing happen. People come up and they notice Vivi now. Vivi gets recognized all the time. And I just feel like as a parent, it's going to happen eventually, you know, and you've got to do it on your own time. I'm very protective of them. I'm very careful. But I guess I almost look at it. If I wasn't in the position I am, would I share them? Yes. I have friends that are not in the public eye and they're proud of their kids and they show them. So I kind of go into it where it's like, you know what? I'm going to want to feel as normal as I can. And if I want to share my kids, I'm going to share my kids. But in a safe way. Like I blur out their school. I'll blur out their jersey. There's things where I try to

be protective of them. But this is just the life that they live in. And I think we've done a really good job in keeping them as normal as possible. You build a community and you kind of, you know, fortunately, I guess, in a bubble where you feel safe with people that aren't in the public eye as a career, but do something, you know, tremendous. But just it gives you that sense of like Connection and community for sure. That doesn't make you feel like you're sticking out like a sore thumb. Yeah. And I do feel like there's a moment where I actually appreciate the mom community. I've learned so much from them on social media. I remember the first time one of the moms teaching me how to cut grapes when I first had Vivi because I wasn't cutting the grapes properly. Or my kids have struggled with eczema. Denver has severe eczema and all the information I was giving. It just feels like. a community of women like wanting to help me. And it's just, it's a nice feeling to have. So there's positives. There's also a lot of crazies. So you've got to filter that out.

Yeah. There's definitely positives. I find it hard to like, usually I'm only, find it positive when they're like, hey, I mean this in the nicest way possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But when they're like, you did that. I remember I posted a photo of River early on. I was, we had just gotten to the house. I was taken out of her car seat and she was like smiling at me. It was like one of her first smiles or something. So I took a picture. I posted it. and her top buckle on her develop agenda. And it was like, are you serious you're driving with her? Like, that's not the way to do it.

And so it kind of really got into my head of like checking everything before because I was like so scared of being mom-shamed. Like what could be taken out of context? Yeah. Yeah, I never show them in the car seats. I never show them any of those things. It's like, you know where can go. Like swimming and floaty, you know, it's a hundred percent.

And like, it's like, you know what's safe. Your mom, your intuition is great, you know. And it's like, but the second you put it for everyone else, it's like, oh my God, I've done this all wrong. Like, this is awful, you know? Yeah. So it's been a challenge for us. I think it's a back and forth conversation every day of like, what do we want to do? How do we want to like move forward with this? But it's a really good piece of advice of just like keeping them as normal as possible. And like, and like, for me, I'm like, I'm not going to, you know, it is what it is and I'm going to post it the way my mom down the street does. She's proud of her kid and it's their

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Instant discounts provided by CashUp A Block Incorporated brand. Visit Cash.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. Eric, I want to go back to what Jesse said about you. a father in terms of like managing your time as a football player like the way you communicate that as a father like I really resonate with just talking about like I'm just very mindful of like what I'm spending my energy on you know I'm very aware that our like time is not infinite if we're thinking about one thing we're disconnected in other areas of our life and things like that that being said like even nowadays I think there's I talk to a lot of moms out there a lot of women that are

married to men or fathers who just like don't have that type of mindset to like make sure that they are just as active in participating and raising their kids where it's just like you know a lot of dads out there like I work I provide and you know the the child care is you know my wife's job like what was it about being a father that like even as a professional athlete because of you could have easily just been you could have been like hey I'm I'm the man I'm a professional athlete I'm making millions of dollars like this less than 1% of the people in the world can do this I have to focus all my energy you know you could have really used that as an excuse but why was it so important for you and why did you struggle making sure that you were showing up and that you were just as active and helping Jesse raise your children well I just feel like you know even you can go back to childhood I guess but I just felt like as a father is such an important role to be present especially the books that I read because I was you know just super intrigued of like how to be a really good dad. Like for me, it just was super important.

So I understood that at a young age, kids are really shaped by their dad's love and the time spent with the father, more so than the mother even. And I think that just resonated. And really, you know, like you said, as a man, the masculinity of like, well, my job is to provide financially for my family.

And after I retired, I struggle with that because I'm like, what do I do? I don't have a job. I don't have like a next passion. Like sports has been my life and what I wanted to do. And so I had, you know, a year where I just had to kind of like do some self-diagnosis and figure out, okay, well, my purpose is really to serve my family. And what that is is, you know, my wife has a career, but serve my wife, serve my children.

Again, find my purpose in my community, which for me is like our friend group, our school. That just, again, just help me figure out that like what my job. is first and foremost is to be a great leader and to be a great leader starts in your home and so the way i raise my kids to make a difference you know whether it's at school now themselves or it's in their sports teams or any activities they do like that's a reflection of what we as fathers do in the household and i think it's just a compounding effect i mean there's so many issues i think in our society because a i'll say you know fathers maybe aren't as present or you know, aren't showing love or aren't showing up to teach, um, their kids, you know,

through emotions and, and just even being aware of your own vulnerability, being vulnerable and be able to talk about, you know, hey, I'm, I'm struggling today, you know, I apologize. I'm sorry. Being able to, you know, do those things where it's easy for a man masculinity to remove himself and be like, well, this is who I am. This is my job is just to, you know, pay the bills and put a roof over your head. So, um, it's been, you know, really encouraging to, to, to, build other men in my circle that have the same value system that way. And I think that's the only way we really make true change is, you know, as men to show up and you can still be a man, but you can also have a deep conversation, you know, with another man or with your children. Um, so they

understand, you know, what it really looks like to be a man. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I've always said, like it takes a lot of guts, especially as men to be vulnerable. It's, and it to apologize, show grace, you know, a lot of times I think we're raised to think the opposite where toughness comes from not opening up or just, or admitting, you know, defeat or that you were wrong or to say like, I'm worried or I'm scared or whatever it is. Like that takes a lot of strength and guts and, you know, I love everything you said about that. That's great. Yeah. Jesse, you've been an incredible working mother. I feel like your whole motherhood you've been working. How do you kind of balance the two without having any sort of guilt or do you have mom guilt?

You know, in the beginning when Eric was playing, I didn't really work as much. I kind of took a break from my music and my touring and everything. And I focused on completely his career and what he needed because it was, you know, demanding and we had small children and I loved every minute of it. But when he retired, I was able to kind of start working again. He was home more. I got a record deal when I was 19. I've always wanted to be a singer. It's always been my dream to play the opera to be an artist.

And I've been able to live that dream in many different ways. But I think that being a mother is more important to me than any of this. So I've definitely had those moments of mom guilt where I was touring back then or I was, you know, traveling. And I think that there were lessons learned of, I don't want to be out here. doing this and be wishing I'm back home. What's the point to do anything? Don't do anything begrudgetly is what my mom says. I don't want to be there crying trying to figure out how to get home. Just don't forecast what how you're going to feel and just don't do it. So I kind of made a change back in 2022 because I was on tour multiple times that year. I went out with Kane Brown.

I did dancing with the stars. I mean, it was just a jam-packed year and I really just got burnout. And it was a moment of this is just not serving me. And yes, my career is going well. You know, my dreams are coming true. I had another book come out. But I was still feeling that pain of wanting to be home more. And so my family is number one. And I always say, like, look at it a pyramid. Put on top of the pyramid what is most important to you and then start building it.

At the top of the pyramid is always my husband and my children. And anything else can build underneath it. What's next after that? Okay, my music and my brand Kittnish. Okay, after that, what's next? And this is how you kind of decide what percentage of time you're going to give to those things. But as long as what is most important to use on the top of this pyramid, everything will fall into place. And so my priorities in life are to be an amazing wife to him and amazing mother

to our children. And so, yes, I have dreams. Yes, I love working. But those things don't come first. Everything else falls into place and there are things that I love and I enjoy. But if you don't have a solid foundation with your family, like, what do you have? Right. None of this matters. She's been very intentional. Yeah. I think 2022 was a turning point in a sense, but you've been super intentional of where her time spent and what makes sense in terms of maybe an opportunity to say yes or no to. And so, you know, with maturity, that balance has come so much greater and, you know, the kids are thriving because, you know, they get that balance at home, too.

We've always been, you know, 2022 is an abnormal year. For sure. And that's why it shook me probably so much because I had worked so much. It was just not normal. It was not anything I was used to being gone that long. And it was just such great opportunities that kept coming. But in the end, you know, you just kind of crash and burn. You're like, oh, my gosh.

And then I got pregnant after that was Denver. So, I mean, how do you, too, with so much going on? life with four children, how do you prioritize each other and to keep your relationship as connected and as strong as it is? Netflix and chill. I think that we're fortunate. We have an abnormal situation where Eric retired early. So he has more free time to be at home. And I have the blessing of being in charge of my career too and picking and choosing. So we, I think spending time together is the biggest priority. That is the most important piece. We just spend a lot of time together. we like each other, which is really important.

You're ready to like them, not just love them. Like, I like him. Yeah, fine time. I guess we are busy. Find time, you know, to like just go play pickleball or, you know, go on a dinner date every once a while or just sit, yeah, in the hot tub. Our naked hot tub nights. Yeah.

Just, you know, find times to like connect because it is important. And, you know, when you just are exhausted and sense from chasing kids around and doing some work type things, you know, but you have to. make a point to spend time, which we do. And we naturally, yeah, get to spend a lot of time at home together. But it is easy after a long day for couples to get in bed and you just get on your phone and you just like zonk out because you're trying to, like that is such a normal thing. But I would advise everyone to prioritize putting it away. One of my best friends, Jessica, our husband has a rule. Like after this time, put your phone in the hall and it's not allowed

back into this room. And they put it away. And you just have to lay there and listen, we're all guilty of it. It's not like that's an every night occurrence, but little things like that can make such a difference where it's just like be present with each other. Is that really more important than the person laying next to you? Like lay there and just stare at each other and just see what comes to your mind, you know? Yeah. Picking on that, like, and I'm sensing this from you guys, but, you know, I have 10 brothers and sisters come from a large family. I've a vivid memory of when we were young kids, a question we'd ask my parents. And they, I learned teamwork from my parents, you know, like the thing that would get me us most in trouble, like the cardinal

sin of being a kid in my family is if I went to like dad and said, hey, can I do this? And if dad said no, and I ignored that and went to mom without, you know, and like mom said yes, think it was fine, finding out that like, you know, I pitted them against each other. Like that, that was the car. Sneaky. And being new parents, I think nowadays you see a lot of couples quickly will prioritize their children over their partner in a sense for like and listen like having river I see the bond that River and Natalie have I feel like River is a part of me right so like loving our child is this like so intense and so easy but I do think it's like to have a successful marriage and in a relationship that lasts over time I always respected my parents when we

had asked him like who do you love more like do you love mom or dad or us and they're just like it's different. That was what they would always say, but they, they made it very clear that their love for each other was special and it wasn't to be compared to our love for them. And I, and I do feel like a lot, a lot of times nowadays, that's not always the case in relationships where parents were almost make it seem like they're afraid to let their children know how much they have, love they have for, you know, each other out of fear that like they're supposed to love their kids the most. but I'm sensing you guys do a great job of like being a team and showing that type of love to your children.

My mom always just said, you know, when your kids grow up and they leave the house, you're going to stand there and you're going to look at each other. And you better hope and pray no matter who it is, whatever couples there are that you have put in the time and the effort, you've got to put each other first because when they're gone, it's just you and your kids live in your house for such a small percentage of your life. So you've got to put in that time together because when they're gone, where is it? Where's the foundation?

Where's the love? We talk about, we love having kids, but we look forward to one day being in our 50s and 60s being like, let's go to Italy and let's go, you know? Now 60s. Well, now 60s, we reset the clock for sure with a little Denver. And that's also, listen, I probably grew up with a very traditional mother, but I think that it has been very healthy for me in my adulthood as a wife. Eric is, he's my partner, but he is the head of our household. He is, he is the provider. He is, he's

the head of the household. And I want to do my job as his wife to make him feel loved and make sure that he feels taking care of his needs are met. And I think having that traditional sort of aspect to it has been really beautiful for our marriage, you know. Growing up seeing my mom, she would wait for my dad at the door when he came home and wrap her arms around him and kiss him. And she would have dinner ready. And I feel like for me, it was something that I wanted to do. I wanted to. And so I do that I may have worked that day. I do work, obviously. But I also, when he comes home from football, I would do the same, wrap my arms around him and make sure I had dinner ready. And what can I do to love on you? Because he's giving that to me in so many other wonderful ways. And so I feel like our

kids see that. And they see the love that we share. They see the dedication. They see the affection. And I'm proud of that. I see their smiles when they see us loving on each other. And I hope they remember those things when they get older and they start, you know, having relationships of their own. Yeah, I was going to ask, what's something that you hope your children take from your marriage into their future marriages? Like, would it be the love or is there?

Yeah, it's the love. It's the dedication. It's the partnership. We're truly a team. We're a team. I always say that he's the Mighty Oak that holds the. the household together and on the leaves that fill up the tree with the colors. And so I think that it's a partnership, you know, one needs the other, totally. Now I have been joking about like,

even before we had children together, you know, like, who's going to be the disciplinary, you know, who's going to be good cop and bad cop. That's a good question. I was always pretty confident that I would, that I have some bad cop in me. And like, you know, in terms of, there's a right way to do things, you know, type of thing. And now it was like, when we found out where, having a daughter. She was telling me that I would melt. And I do melt with my daughter. But Nali has such this insane bond with her daughter. It's so evident. And I find at times I have to be like, you know, like, hey, you know, how do you strike that balance with you guys? Or what role do you guys play where I just feel like she has this intense love that I have to be like, she's okay, you know,

for traveling. I also don't think River is old enough yet when she's like, Daddy, please. You know, it'll be a little different where he starts to. I really, I don't want, we're very lucky, right? We could give, and I'm sure you guys, you seem like you're in the same position. We could spoil our kid. We can give them anything she wants. Our daughter is not going to have the same childhood that we had. You know, we grew up every day I saw my parents worry about money, you know? So, and a lot of things was no, because, like, I had to work for things I wanted, and I had a great childhood. They gave me everything I needed, but like, we are going to have to figure out how to teach our kids' scarcity and work ethic, like, how do you balance that

making sure that your kids are learning some of the core values that you guys learned as children, knowing that you had different upbringings. Yeah, so important. I think, you know, I was going to earlier just tell on Jess for being so good with a discipline part of it. Like, we are definitely a team. I think I'm probably more of a people pleaser. So, you know, a little more lenient, but it's good to kind of be in check with the kids because they'll try to, like you said, go both ways and get what they want. But we're on the same page that way. And, you know, I think basically there's boundaries, you know, we've created. And, you know, I think we have the opportunity to give our kids a lot more than we had, you know, from travel to obviously

things, but just opportunity. And, but there is a fine balance because that's the last thing we want as privileged children. And so, like, earning something is super important in our household. And our kids understand, you know, they have chores and, you know, they can get weekly allowance if they do their chores. And you've taken them to soup kitchens where they've held, like, you've done a great job of that and we could do even more of that. Yeah.

And have a perspective. I mean, just understanding, like, where they live and what they are provided is, you know, very fortunate. And to see and have reflection and perspective of what others may not have. and be, you know, give more than you receive. And, you know, I think it starts too with just the rooted foundation at home with the belief systems, have a spiritual belief, you know, have, you know, just love in general for everyone. And so it does show, I think, a lot through our kids and in their friends and who they associate

with, which we're super proud of. But it's a constant communication, like, be fortunate. And I have to tell myself, too, sometimes, because I can get mad about little things, but it's perspective, like, be fortunate for what you have and what, you know, where we're at in life, because we are very, very blessed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mom's, you do everything for everyone else, and somehow your own wellness always gets bumped to the bottom of that list.

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you know, newbie to reality TV. I remember watching y'all's reality show. it was so good. Well, first, I guess, how did that opportunity come about? I mean, I know y'all were so big in public eye, so it was probably like a no-brainer. But how did that opportunity come to you all? A producer reached out to me on Facebook from a production company and just said, we've been following you and Eric for quite some time. You guys are engaged now. Like, would you be open to us doing a docu-series, pitching it to E of you to like getting to the idol, I old getting married? And it's funny because I had always thought for some reason,

doing a reality show would be a positive for me. This was even before Eric. This was the days of like Jessica Simpson's show, Ashley Simpson, Cheyenne, even on MTV when she had her show. Because I was being marketed not very well through my first record deal.

It was like they were marketing me as like the sex symbol they were putting me in Maxim and like just like all these things that were just not probably the move. And I did not have a very big female fan base at that point. I was like I always make this joke. But the only fan mail I was getting was like guys in jail. And so it was just, and I was on tour with Jonas Brothers, and like, it was just like, they were doing it incorrectly. Yeah.

You know? And so I remember telling the president of my label, like, I think if I did a reality show, people would see, like, I am a girl's girl. Like, I am just like your best friend. And it would really help my career. And he had just done the reality show with an artist named Shiane Kimball. He's like, I'm never doing that again. Anyway, fast forward, we get this opportunity. And I'm like, man, I feel like this would be fun to do.

First off, we get to document our entire experience together. we'll never be able to get this back. And number two, I think this would be a good career move. And so we went and pitched it to E and they took it right on the spot, both of us. And we ended up having three seasons with a couple of year breaks in between because every time we would do one,

I'd be like I'm never doing that again. She was a bulldog during this process too. It was unbelievable. You guys obviously been, you know, see reality TV, but they try to make you do certain things your piniest and she's like, no, we're done. It was just like, actually fired the first producer. I was like, you're done.

You have to know your boundaries in that world because it's their job to see what those boundaries are. Authentic at all. I was too smart for all of that. And I knew exactly what they were doing. Like, you just, obviously, you can't snow the snowman. Like, I know what you're doing. Like, get out of here. So, yes, I ended up firing the entire team and getting a new one in, which was much better

for us. But yeah, I just, you know, I was like in reality TV, but he didn't really enjoy the process. You know, I don't like the icky slimy part of it. I like the finished product where people can be entertained and they feel a part of it. And it's, that part's fun. But the process can feel slimy no matter what. You feel just kind of icky sometimes when you're doing it. And there are parts of it that were fun. But I think as soon as we started having kids, I immediate was like, we're done here. Like I don't want my kids around these, you know, camera guys around production. Like I just don't want them growing up in. this world it just doesn't feel right right um and so we stopped doing it after season three that you're not happy with us i think they wanted to continue making it you know truly a part of the e family i mean i'm assuming they now that you were having kids they were like yeah you know like the family dynamic but i definitely feel like it probably burned a couple bridges i actually know that it did a couple burned a couple bridges with some exacts there because they were they'd put a lot into it and and i understand i totally get it but i just i knew in my heart it wasn't something

we wanted to continue. The process was, it wasn't that bad at all. I mean, we had great camera guys. Oh my God. I'm still friends with these guys today. Ninja. Hello, Ninja. And Josh. And Pirate, yeah. And Pirate, yeah. But, like, yeah, just, I think, you know, you step back. No, Ninja. Do you really? I feel like I do. Because not a lot of people named Ninja in the production world. He's amazing. We, I mean, and you're around these guys all the time, so you become buddies with them. But yeah, I just, I didn't want our kids growing up around that. It just, It just doesn't feel very, I want our kids to be as normal as they can possibly be. And they are.

But I'm grateful for the show. It changed our lives, you know, and it gave me a platform and Eric the ability to retire early. But yeah, I mean, it's a, we get, you get presented. Like you said, like, there are pros and attractive elements to it, you know, and I'm sure party you thought, like, we can be, like, good role models, you know, like, you always go in was like thinking, you know, this can have a greater good sometimes. But like just knowing reality TV and we're fans of reality TV. We love the drama.

Like I want to see you get along all that much. I want to see y'all fight. I want to see y'all. I want to see. I want to fight. Yeah. So like sometimes you have to manufacture that tension, which like you said, can feel a little icky.

It doesn't feel real. And I think, I don't know, like I said, I'm grateful for it. It was a good experience. But I also feel like it opens things up for judgment or for whatever it may be. You know, that's why even I'm hesitant to do even podcasts, anything. It's like I'm opening up. There's probably 10 sound bites in here that will just turn into something. You're opening yourself up to be scrutinized no matter what it is and what you do.

And you have to be prepared for that. And I don't know that I'm at this phase or age of life where I really want that. I just don't. I'm so happy in my little bubble of peace that I am so particular. That's why doing something like Special Forces was great because that show's not really built for that. It's, you know what I mean? It's not like that. It's the coolest opportunity to show your best self.

And that's all they're really looking for. There's no other angle to it. And that's why, again, we were asked that so many times, why did you do it? Like, you guys have been kind of done with reality TV. I'm like, because this is different than that. But, yeah, I feel like we're at a phase of life where I just don't want to, I don't want to. I don't want to put our family and all that on the spot. It's just not worth it to me.

At what cost? Because also, like, the essence of rei-TV is that competition to pit you against each other. And especially as a couple, like, to me, I feel like our golden rule is to, like, I've never seen my parents fight. And it's not because they didn't fight. You know, it's just that they did not do it around us. They did it behind closed doors. They presented as a team.

And it's just like, you see. couples out there, we were out with some friends. And the way they talked to each other in front of us, how was this like? Like couples who like argue and you're like, I feel like this could maybe y'all could like finish this at home. I feel like maybe this isn't that important. And I'm like, we would never, you know, and not that like I've, we've sounded like them to each other in our car about like shit that we're annoyed by. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I never want to be that couple like you know if you you got it you got to respect each other first and you have to present that to the world um because otherwise it's just so easy to like you know you're around each other all the

time you guys know each other's weaknesses your pain points you know the thing you know the people who love us the most the ones that hurt us the most too even though you know even unintentionally because we're so vulnerable around them and so like you to me it's always so important to protect that and to show that and that's why like obviously you know special forces and seeing you guys as a couple is is that opportunity like you said because like even it's not even a competition show like everyone there is a unit right like everyone can win you know there's like it's kind of can but yeah but like you're not you're you're you're only helping each other out you know and like there's there's competition within um each like course or whatever but like

We're all fans of the show? Did y'all watch before? We've seen every season. I asked Eric to do season one. Oh, wow. And he couldn't because I was on tour. There was a possibility of him doing last year, actually. He was on call for like a time frame.

And then they ended up, I think, going out the camp. That's what it was. And so we had become fans of the show because it was that show that Eric didn't do. So we were like curious about what it was. And we absolutely fell in love with it as a family. Like we watch it with our kids. We fell in love with it. I'm a military brat.

My dad, biological father was in the Army. My stepdad was in the Air Force. I've lived in 14 different places. Like, military life is my life. And so I was so enamored with the whole thing and watching everybody and their journey and go through their process. And so his agent called me actually because I answered the phone and he doesn't usually answer the phone. So she calls me and says, listen, Special Forces wants Eric again, but there's a catch. You have to go with them.

And I was like, what? I was like, er. No. No, I don't think so. And they're like, yeah, there's another married couple and they need that dynamic. If you're not going to do it with him, like this is not going to happen this season. Like, well, maybe next season, but like they need that dynamic. And so I felt so much pressure and I ultimately just said no, like not doing it.

This is like maybe two weeks, probably 10 days before they left. Yeah. I was like, yeah, no, not going to do that. A couple days go by, they call back and they're like, they went out to another couple, but they said no. Like, can we like can you really? Are you sure? Can you consider this again? Can you consider this again? I was like, so we talked about it. I'm like, baby, I don't, like, I don't want to do this. This is not something I've ever wanted to do. Like, you're going to be great at this. But like, me, I don't want to be away from the kids that long. Like, what are we doing? And ultimately, we went back and forth for days. And then I finally was like, if I say no, I feel like I've already failed the show. Like, already failed. Already failed this experience. And I don't like feeling like a failure. So my mom was like, I got you. You guys go. We've got the kids. My dad, who's

in the Air Force, over 30 years, retired general, was like, I've been through all of this. You got it, like, go through this. And so we went. We sure did. What an experience. Having gone through it, personal, I imagine you guys are very proud,

not only as what you did as individuals, but as a couple, so you're going to, you remember all these moments and you're going to not see so much of it. You will be frustrated because, like, Nick would be like, that looked so short. Like, that was five seconds long, and we've been running for 12 miles.

Like, I got to escape for five hours. And I was like dying. And I'm like, that looks easy. That looked kind of. And everyone washes it thinks it's insanely hard, but compared to what you experienced. And just how torturous it was. And I can only imagine having done it, like, yeah, you're going to be kind of frustrated watching it back because it won't feel like what you win through.

Because so much about that show is it's like attrition. You know, like the, I keep, you know, the, social, like the activities, you know, maybe you have a fear of heights and some of that shit. But a lot of it was exhilarating and fun, I imagine. And it's the in between, like, before you start or finish where they just beat the shit out of you. Or emotionally, like, I just was like, can I have a hug? You know, like, tell me I'm doing a good job, man. Like, you know, you want some validation. Yeah, where you all shocked?

I mean, obviously, you've been a fan of the show and you'd watch the show, but were you shocked at just how mean the DSs really are? No, because we'd seen it. So I knew what to expect. And again, I grew up with two military dads. Like, I just, that part didn't phase me as much as I think maybe it would have other people I'm used to that sort of level of like intensity, you know? But I was impressed by how well they were able to keep that on. Because you know the real people behind the clothes. We all do.

Like now we've hung out with them and they're just like wonderful, warm and fuzzy people. But I was impressed with the amount of energy it must take to be. on like that, you know? People ask, it was like, it's a simul, it's not a show, it's a simulation. You know, you're truly in their world. Yeah. And it's. They get frustrated with like production in the camera crews and, you know, we had a hiccup

one time, I think, because they needed a break. And we're like in the middle of shooting an exercise and they're just going off, like living. Like, you're out here. Because they take it seriously. They really don't even pay attention to the TV part of it. They take this very seriously, which is good. You want them to.

and what? I mean, 20 hours, 18, 20 hours a day and they're, they're frustrated because you need a break to grab a... Change out camera. Change our cameras. Yeah, they don't care. They don't want to deal with any of it. Yeah, they, I've talked to Billy a lot too. Like, they don't, they go in not knowing our backstories. They don't want to, they want to, they want to meet us at our level. They want to, like, you know, have it be as real as possible. What was the most rewarding without any spoilers or things like that but what was what was the most rewarding moment for you guys both as individuals and as a couple doing the experience i think um for me just seeing jess in that environment was really

cool because being an athlete i guess you're just used to the grind sometimes and training camp and football like sucks but you just figure out a way to get through it and i've done it so many years in my life and you know i just wasn't sure the physical emotional toll that it does play on you like where she'd be at but like just the grit and like the way she dug deep and the tenacity that I know she has has had her life and has but it came out I was like damn this is really cool like another attraction point to see her almost in this environment because it's hard you know and I think that's what I love about team sports is like the Bonnie like it's almost like trauma Bonnie but it's Bonnie when you go through hard stuff together like you really

respect and appreciate one another and like we've gotten so much deeper of a relationship with some of the cast members, fellow cast members, because of that experience. And it just reminded me so much of playing football and that experience. But just to see her, you know, do as well as she did. It was awesome. Yeah, you're a beast, Jesse. I definitely, when they released the cast, I was like, she is going to crush. You had a couple of your football peers.

You had Randall Cobb and Johnny Manzella. How was that? Was there a little bit of internal competition for you to outperform them? Randall's awesome. What was crazy is that there's, what, seven or eight of us? So all of us have kids in the same age range. And so I've known Randall, Andrew East. Johnny has spent some time just after the show with us.

Literally at the house two days ago. Like all day at the house. Oh, really? You know, the kids and stuff. I made him chilly and cookies. I'm just like, I'm not leaving. You love it. But I didn't feel any, like, competition.

I'm going to, you know, finish first or I'm going to beat you. It's almost like I get more of like the satisfaction. action and validation from like uplifting people about this kind of my personality I think and I've always played that position in sports and so I'd rather see someone else succeed with teamwork because it makes me feel like okay you know we do it together the only as strong is your weakest link yeah right and was that like you know for me when I did it I had just found out Natalie was pregnant and I remember when season one came out she like saw the commercial and she's like you got to do that show like it looks so badass you got like you'd crush you got to do that and so I

basically was like, okay, I think my, I want to turn my wife on my girlfriend, basically. And then we found out now I was pregnant. And, you know, I played sports my whole life. I ran track in college, certainly not at the level you competed at. And so I was like 42. And so for me, I really, this was really like, do I still got what it takes? And I really internalized that, like, you know, there are going to be moments where I'm going to have to step up as a father and I'm going to have to grind when I don't feel like it. when I you know and so like that was like the mentality I used to get through that experience um yeah

I guess like what were your kind of for both question for both you because like that's what's so fascinating about the show is like whatever they paid you you literally can leave the first day there is nothing keeping you there nothing other than your own like will or like self-determination so what was the thing for you guys that made you grind it out and still it out as long as you you end up sticking it out for me i just i think it's a competitive person so like obviously competing with myself and and to give it everything i i have and um you know to your point too being retired and now middle age it's like do i still have it so it's a testament to or a test of what do i have you know and like almost realizing i miss that like a comfort zone you know experience

of like pushing myself physically, but now I was more so emotionally. And that was kind of my giant force was just like almost going back to the thought process I had in training camp for football. I was like, all right, let's just get to lunch. You know, let's just get to dinner. Randall made that comment one time too. Just get to the next meal. And it's just like you're checking this box and such a like, you know, task oriented person. That's all, you know, compartmentalize like everything. You can't look at the big picture. You just got to get to the next thing. And then I had, you know, just there with me. So I was comforting at night.

She'd just be like, you know, just the touch or, you know, just knowing that she's there was helpful. How about you, Jeff? My driving force was Eric. I did the show because of Eric. Doing the show just to begin with was like so out of my comfort zone. I knew it was going to be tough. I knew it was going to be hard.

I knew it was going to pull things out of me that maybe just didn't want to, like, deal with, you know? But I did it. And just getting there was enough for me to just feel like I, had done something, but I think what kept going me every single day was being with him and almost not wanting to let him down. And I had the mentality of like, I'll stay as long as he's here. If he's here, I'm going to stay. And I'm going to keep going as long as I can go if he's here. And that was kind of my thought process, is never wanting to let him down.

We came into this together. Even though we're playing this scenario as individuals, we also are a team in my mind. And it was just like wanting to be. a good team teammate to my husband. Did you guys have any conversations going in that if one of you bowed out or quit, like how the other person would respond? Yeah, we did have that conversation. It was always like if I end up leaving early on, which I like assumed I would, like you keep going, like go as far as you possibly can.

And that was our conversation. That was it. Are your kids stoked to watch? Yes. They're excited. They're so excited. It's definitely the only thing I've ever done on TV. that I will be excited for my kids to watch.

And that's part of the reason why I did it, because everything else, trash. It's not trash. A couple of engagements. You make good TV. Yeah, I make a TV. But not anything where I'm going to sit down. I'm like, dad's really proud of this.

Yeah, but look at you. I mean, you've, like, such success. Like, you know. Listen, I'm grateful for it. I'm, I always tell people, like, I'm not ashamed of it, but I'm also not proud of, like, being on reality TV. There's not a skill set. there's there's elements that I navigated in that world that like looking back like I realized that

I had like an emotional resiliency that allowed me to do what I did and and I think I don't think it's a coincidence that like you know Hannah Hannah Brown Tyler Cameron and myself three winners in the first two season are all from Bachelor Nation because like the emotional kind of fuckery they do with you guys is it's no bullshit that being said like I'm I'm aware that everything I have today is is from that. So I'm always grateful for that. And I'm always like, so yeah, it's a balance of like, I don't, I don't, I'm not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed of it.

It happened. And I, I pull from it the things that I'm, you know, proud of, but it's not like special forces a very different experience for me. But I'll be happy for my kids to see. Like, I remember seeing Rocky floor in the theaters when I was like four or five years old and I came home and I was doing sit-ups, you know, like, you know, and I hope. my kids, like, watch it and want to, like, you know. Dad's a badass.

You know, and start, like, grinding, you know, and things like that. Throw rocks in their backpack. Yeah. Let's go. That's one thing they don't, they don't fucking talk about on special forces because the, the Bergen's, the Bergen's. Yeah, Bergen's. So heavy.

Well, they make it to, little behind, behind the scenes, they put, we had to put sand. Maybe it was rocks for you guys. But it has to weigh at least 35 kilograms, which is like, what, 25 pounds? I don't know. It's closer to 50 pounds. 50 pounds or something like that. They don't show that. And that on my frame,

and Sean's frame, I remember looking at Sean because she's tiny like me and I'm being like, and they don't care. And they don't care. It was like up here. Oh, I'm like,

doop, don't. Every time. Like, go everywhere. You had a little tarot. We had a little tarot on over. Oh my God. I think I did fall over at one point. It was like we were turning

on something in my backpack. Just like kind of blew me over. It's so funny. Well, we're so excited. to watch it comes out when September 25th? September 25th. Thank you very much.

Yes. So next week, I think. And next Thursday. Wow. Shoot. It's wild, Joel. It's here. That'll be exciting.

I cannot believe how fast they pulled this together. Well, thanks for coming, guys. It's been a ton of fun. Anything you guys, like final thoughts, you want to share or plug before we send you guys on your way. Oh, yeah. I have a movie coming out.

You have a movie coming out? Oh, she has a movie coming out. It will be in theaters, November 7th. What movie? It is a Karen Kingsbury movie, The Novelist, and she wrote a movie called The Christmas Ring. And I am playing the best friend to the lead star, Jana Kramer. So I'm very excited. Well, thanks again, guys.

It's been great getting to know you guys. I love having these conversations. Obviously, I'm in my dad and husband era. But, you know, I think you guys are a great role model of how to be a team and put family first. And I think nowadays, again, whoever your family is and whatever your family is and whatever whatever it looks like, I think we need more of that energy in our world and to focus on your community, whoever that community is, and get off the phones and all that bullshit. I'm going to make you a t-shirt.

Dad and husband era. I like that. I'm going to send it to you. You make t-shirts? I'll figure it out. Well, thanks for coming, guys. I appreciate you. And thank you guys for listening.

We will see you back to tomorrow. tomorrow.