The Viall Files - E101 Bachelor Recap with Lauren Zima- Ep. 10 Women Tell All

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

Entertainment Tonight's Lauren Zima joins us to talk about the announcement of the new Bachelorette! Then, Nick asks Lauren about that tweet she deleted and her strong stance on Madi. They discuss the "winners and losers" of Women Tell All. Did we finally get clarity? Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode! Thanks to our sponsors: WARBY PARKER: https://www.warbyparker.com/viall GRUBHUB: Download the app and use code VIALL HUNT A KILLER: https://www.huntakiller.com/viall CODE: VIALL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is going on everybody happy bachelor recap oh wait what is it what what fucking women tell all women tell all episode um great episode for you today. Lauren Zima, lover of Chris Harrison. Of roses and rosé. Joins us. Always fun to have Lauren here. She has been covering The Bachelor for some time. Very funny,

very articulate person, the opposite of that. Joins us, and we have some great discussions about obviously our new Bachelorette, Claire, which we'll get into. We get more into Madison and Peter's conversation about sex and ultimatums.

You asked Lauren a couple of tough questions too. I appreciated that. Thanks. I don't even remember what they were. Turn the tables on her. Yeah, fuck yeah, I did. So it's a great episode. I think you'll enjoy it.

We'll get right to it um just want to say for those of you listening obviously uh we we appreciate our big bachelor audience uh but just remember we are in our 101st episode this is which means we have 100 more before many of which are not recap related that some of our diehard fans really appreciate. We do our ask Nick episodes on Monday, a relationship and dating people call in, share their stories. We give advice.

It's very relatable stories. People learn a lot. I learn a lot. Rochelle learns a lot. It's a lot of fun. And we have some great interviews on Wednesdays. So make sure to check those out. We would appreciate it.

We have a great episode on Wednesday tomorrow. The lady Gang joins us, the fun group. And yeah, we just get into it. So you're not going to want to miss that. And one other thing, we've been struggling with identifying names of who our listeners are. Someone called in, I'm not called in, they call in, they comment on Instagram. And i know what you what what you people think listening but someone suggested we should say the vile high club which is kind of catchy it's catchy so i don't know what they would call themselves but we can be part of the hey are you part of the vile club no what do you think rochelle i thought we were vi-fi's i feel like we just need to you could be vi-fi's part of the vile hall club no yeah yeah I feel like I mean it's not up to me

really yeah but just just throwing it out there it's a suggestion um anyways whatever so yeah make sure to check uh check out all our other episodes thanks for listening uh and without further ado uh the talented and funny Lauren Zima. So funny. Warby Parker. Wow, Rochelle, you are looking hot in your Warby. It's like sexy and sophisticated. Plus it's blue light blocking, you know.

That's right. And I'll tell you what what do we do most of our times i'm embarrassed to say i spent 10 hours uh on average on my phone this week i use it for work i cannot believe that that is true anyways it's embarrassing i don't want to i don't want to fucking defend myself okay but it's true but it's uh the the light that comes and radiates from our phones and our computers is not great for our eyes yeah so i got it at you can add it on to your glasses so that's what i did with these and then they just made everything really easy so you can get the home try-ons

and you can see what sizes and when you're ordering and then you send it back also they have real brick and mortar stores you can go into oh yeah i have yeah i mean i got my i mean listen i don't wear i don't need to wear glasses because oh your fake ones i have perfect eyes yeah i have some warby parker uh i mean i just went there's a there's they have a store in venice yeah and so i uh yeah i just thought they look good on my face i just have to say because I'm like a glasses freak. I just am obsessed with glasses. Like the quality of Warby Parker for the price, you cannot beat it.

You can't. And also Warby Parker, just like a cool name. The glasses start at $95, including prescription lenses. And they have sunglasses, progressives, and blue light lenses available. Anyways, try Warby Parker's free home try-on program. Order five pairs of glasses to try at home for free for five days. There's no obligation to buy. Shipping is free and includes a prepaid return shipping label.

Ha! That is ease, people. Try five pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's warbyparker.com slash V i a l l hunter killer people you need to get on the hunter killer game i don't mean i i know that you're not doing that many interesting things on dates and and game nights with your friends and we have people calling all the time like i need to do something new and exciting with my boyfriend or girlfriend or my fiance or husband well yeah man hunter and killer is super interesting super fun uh it's not just like you get to really think and ask questions and it can lead to different debates and discussions and you can feel like you're

accomplishing accomplishing something with someone so it's an actual box that they send you in the mail every month with real clues real like real papers and documents that help you figure out and hunt that killer. It's a good gift for people who love murder podcasts, watching everybody. It's a great gift for everybody. Right now, just for our listeners, you can go to HuntAiller.com slash v-i-a-l-l and use promo code v-i-a-l-l at checkout for 20 off your first box head to huntakiller.com slash v-i-a-l-l for 20 off and to show support for our podcast how nice huntakiller.com slash v-i-a-l-l well claire is our bachelorette. Lauren Zima.

Thanks for coming. Nick Fowl, thank you for having me. What a banner day for me to be here. Yeah, this really worked out well. We got our new bachelorette. We got to talk tell-all. This is some good stuff. Yeah, and you were at the tell-all.

Yes, sir, I was. Can I tell you what I do at those tell-alls? I'm not joking. I bring Advil and I pass it out like party favors to the press. is it is so much yelling and so much i truly get a headache after so i medicate you must well let's well we'll get to the tell-all but i think we need to discuss uh claire being the new bachelorette i think excellent casting by abc and warner brothers uh and so on so many levels it was a a great choice i am 100 behind this i will i will reveal who my my top two hopefuls were i was a bachelor yes i mean we'd heard chatter about several people i know and um chris harrison told me in interviews

that uh i know it's so weird to just say but but I really am. I'm citing my source here. He said that this was the biggest debate they'd had in years and years, that they went back and forth so much that they brought in so many people. I heard they brought in a ton. Right? And I think as fans you can see why. I don't think there were clear frontrunner choices from Peter's season.

No one was really rooting and rallying for anybody. We also don't know how it ends, but i still it didn't seem obvious to me because there was so much fan criticism of how dramatic the women were if they were ready for marriage but all that being said i was really really in when i started hearing um you know potentially tia i think a lot of people were rooting for tia i was a fan of tia and i was i was also a huge fan of of Claire and I'm really happy with this. Yeah, let's look at some of the other choices.

Tia, I mean, I've never met Tia in person. I've heard she's a lovely person. Honestly, I just, I love all of my listeners from the South, but I just need a break from the y'alls. Okay. And, you know, I just like your God bless. Well, we're coming up Hannah Brown, Hannah Ann Madison. bless and I just I need a fucking break from pageants and I just

I don't think Tia was in the pageants maybe she wasn't in the pageants but she had her like her condescending kind of like God blesses you know I can't I don't want to hear like this kind of forced so for you it's purely a verbiage thing.

I just need a break. I just need a break. Again, love you guys. I love a Southern twang. I love a y'all. I do. I need a break. There are always pros and cons, right?

I totally see what you're saying because I think it's just like how statistically it shows something like when we've had a Republican president for two years, it swings. Okay, maybe we needed a swing away from the south i see we need to go to this pendulum we'll go back to you i'm sure i have no doubt maybe and like the like what's what's tia's storyline well here's what i like a forced relationship with colton here's what i liked about tia we were coming off of frustration with younger women tia's in her

late 20s okay i liked that tia's last relationship was outside of the franchise. Me too. It seemed real. Yeah. She was moving to Nashville for that guy, ready to do that. I just felt if we're coming off a season of people being frustrated that the contestants allegedly weren't really there for love. When I interviewed Rob Mills, he kind of for the first time acknowledged,

look, we got to be careful about people coming on the show for the Instagram thing. I'd never heard him say that in an interview before so i think she was she was not somebody who'd been moving to la just to be part of the instagram world and all that she still has a regular job okay call she's moving to nashville for that's like the but it was it's the it's the instagram hub of the south well she's not i think she'd been living a small town life and she just wanted to see a big city i do think that i think tia is wonderful as a person keep in mind we're not talking about them as people i've never met her in person i've heard nice things but i do get like email like solicitations from her like uh and i know it's not tia doing it but like her uh

it's funny i get these emails for like uh by Tia's presets. Like, I'm just saying like- Well, everybody's got some element. No criticism, I'm doing, I'm just saying, let's not pretend that Tia is somehow out of this influencer world. No, no, no, I don't think she is. But I will say, I just appreciated that she dated somebody outside of the world.

I think she really is looking for love in her life. And I also think it's impossible to avoid the Instagram thing. Even as much as I think Claire's impossible to avoid the Instagram thing, even as much as I think Claire's above it. I mean, Claire has kept posting on Instagram. It's not as though she doesn't have an account. Claire's not going to be above it. I can't wait to see her FabFitFun ads. You know, like I'm just saying like that. Right. But what I like talking to you about it, why I like discussing with you is I think you and I both look at it as because a lot of people will tell me, well, who do you like? And I always say it's not not about that it's about who you think is going to be a good television show totally and

claire is going to be awesome and again let's look at some like taisha was a lot of people were clamoring for taisha wonderful human being beautiful sweet genuine and nice and way too measured to be the bachelorette i mean if you want to be in bed by 830, pick Tayshia. I mean, like, she's just, she, when you watched her seasons, it was always this very thought out, like, she couldn't decide between John Paul Jones and Derek. Now imagine, like, 30 dudes and constantly being worried about what people think. And that's, I get it, like, she's just too measured. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I get it. She's just too measured. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

I will say I look back at Tayshia on Colton's season. I also think, do I remember moments? And I think Tayshia is so kind, so lovely. Wonderful. But yeah, I don't remember significant moments from her in Colton's season. And so I think, well, if the TV wasn't popping then. Look, at the end of the day, I trust these producers. They've been making the show for almost two decades.

They've given us unbelievable seasons in the past couple of years. And I do think, well, on Colton's season, they could have picked Tayshia then, but they picked Hannah. So that's interesting to me too. Yeah, I honestly think this is an excellent cast. And there were reports about, you know, they offered it to Hannah,

but she turned it down for money, which who knows? I mean, that's probably true. But I think this is a great, like, again, does,

does Lauren know? Well, you know what? No, I just, you know what I wondered for Hannah too was, I think Hannah's season was unbelievable television and it was a perfect storm of so many things. Can't replicate that.

Oh my God. Luke's storyline was, you know, so him and her were so fire and ice and yet so attracted to each other. Jed hid completely hit a girlfriend. Tyler Cameron was a legitimate model. Peter Weber was the boy next door with a good job. Mike Johnson was this beloved guy.

The seat, the care, her, everything she had to say, the cast was incredible. It was a perfect storm. She's now been on our TVs on dancing Dancing with the Stars and on Peter's season. And then she would come back again.

I did wonder, like, just for Hannah's sake, I felt, will people turn? Will they just compare it to her season and be like, I'm sick of her on my TV? And that's not fair to her. Not even, but like, there's no, like, she's at the top. And in Bachelor World, there's only one place to go. And again, this isn't a criticism to hannah like look at claire like people have criticized claire of the past because she's dramatic and people have called her crazy and you know what maybe she is all those things

she's also just human you know uh hannah brown could have gotten the claire edit for all these years they could have thrown a raccoon in there and had to pretend to talk to her you know what i'm saying like that's not a criticism of Hannah. Do we need to say for the people that it's quite obvious that Claire was speaking to a producer and it was edited to be a raccoon? Do we need to say that?

But like she- We all know that, right? Yeah, like Hannah Brown and Claire are similar in the sense, and that's why they like their bachelorettes is to be willing to emote and be raw and authentic and speak their minds.

And depending on what music they want to play in that moment, like you can either look crazy or empowered, you know, and Hannah had the benefit. And I've said this over and over of Luke P. And I hope for Claire's sake, I hope they cast a couple of absolute assholes. That she can really shut down. Yes. Yes. Claire's ready.

Yeah. Yes. Was that true that they offered it to Hannah, though? I don't know. I don't know the specific, I mean, but I will say, I think that from what Chris told me in that interview, there were a bunch of names tossed around. I think they met with a ton of people. I think they really were

exploring all options here. And I think they were listening to fans who were saying, like Chris always says, you have to be careful. Sometimes the Twitterverse can feel loud and it doesn't represent everybody at home. But I do think they were hearing from people. Look, some of these women on Peter's season were really, really young. And that doesn't mean you can't be mature at a young age.

I should say we're really potentially inexperienced or are they really ready for marriage? And are they really there for anything more than an Instagram following? So I think they were just hearing that. And look, Claire's going to get criticism for the fact that she's a single 38-year-old woman. You already see people saying, well, she's been on the show four times already. And so she's had her chance.

And you know what? I think she's great TV. And I think that I am excited to see a woman date some younger guys. Totally. It'll be a lot of fun. And I think it was, listen, I Totally. It would be a lot of fun. And I think it was, listen, I think the show is doing a lot of smart things.

I think it was great that they went so young for a couple of seasons. They got a new audience. They got a lot of new people watching it. And they're still going to watch Claire, right? It's still going to be great TV, but you got the younger audience in. And now you're going to bring back some of these og fans that like got a little frustrated with trying to relate to this younger audience right um and it will go away a little bit from this influencer mentality not entirely it's never gonna cease but it's gonna seem a little more real the reality is uh the the average person is getting married later in life that's our society is doing that

so instead of we're now going towards reality um and i think the show is going to like bring a lot it feels almost like going to be a fresh new show a little a little bit like we don't know necessarily what to expect it will they're kind of resetting and i think it's gonna seem a little more real yeah well and I love that it does always reflect, hopefully to some extent, the way relationships are now, how things are changing. And they have to just be honest about the Instagram culture because it's part of everything. But I am interested, like, look, here's what I think is kind of hard too, is in different areas of our country and there's different sex of people and types of people watching this show. Look, I went

to school in Missouri. There are a lot of people who still get married in their early 20s there. So to some extent, this is real. And that's why I say I don't want to say that just because you're 23 doesn't mean you're not ready for marriage. That's not the case to me. It's about maturity, life experience, and how you see your life going. But you know what else is real? As you just said, people getting married later in life. And you know what else is real? Again, I would like to see a woman date some younger men. I'm excited to see some older guys here, switch that up. And maybe that'll mean for a really interesting Bachelor in Paradise too. I would love to see 38-year-old Claire maybe date like a 28-year-old dude and let's see what happens.

Oh, hell yeah. Oh, totally. And that's the thing is like, we really haven't seen this before. And that's what makes it fun and exciting. And again, to your course 23 year olds get married you know like yeah we but we we get this all the time with the bachelor and their and their casting we just we don't they just never have gone this and the bachelor uh implies is that like once especially if you're the bachelorette lorette once you're like over 32 you're ineligible to find love. Right. So, you know, it's nice that they're willing to give Claire a shot at a lead role. And she has all the qualities of a great bachelorette.

Well, and it kind of goes back to what the show originally was when it first went on TV, was this idea of you haven't been able to find love. And now here you really are. You know, that's one thing I've thought the past couple years not even just peter but i mean like gorgeous joelle fletcher who was i think 24 25 when she went on or whatever you've not yet had the struggles of not finding love you're here because you're interested to find it but you haven't spent years struggling and it just hasn't worked out with with some of these people you know jojo i mean she was young but she she had been in some relationships and had some experience.

But you're right, overall, you're right. I mean, a lot of these, like Cassie went from living in her sister's room to dating Colton. Half these women are still living with their parents. And it's just, that's fine. But you haven't really had a lot of ups and downs. You haven't had the Brad breakups.

I want to hear these sob stories, not about like, you know, what happened when you were like six or 12. And yeah, those are sad stories, but I want to hear about you. Like when I was 28, this shit happened to me. Like, you know, we do on our Ask Nick episodes, like these real life situations and trials

and tribulations with relationships. That's, that's dating out there today. What we've gotten into more now, I think, is I was really noticing it watching Peter season with when he was talking to some of the women about their trauma and their upbringing is like, I don't know, your significant other can help you with some of that stuff, but they're not a therapist. And I think in your relationships, it's a lot easier to work out issues from past relationships than deep issues from your childhood. You got to figure that stuff out on your own in order to come healthy into a

relationship. 27-year-old Peter is not here to explain to you how your bullying or whatever it is as a kid could affect you. Now, he's not equipped for that. So I'm interested to see that. And Nick, I have a very significant question for you. Shoot. Do you just want to jump on the season? No. I knew he'd get, he wouldn't love that. But Nick, how come you and Claire never dated?

Were you ever on a season of anything together? I wasn't. I've met Claire a few times. She's gorgeous. Wonderful person. Total babe. Total babe. Okay.

Shipping it. Jump in, Nick. You know, who knows? Who knows? Uh-oh. Never know. But yeah, I think it's fantastic. I'm really happy for Claire.

And I think it was really smart of ABC and Warner Brothers to do this. We can always go, and we'll go back young again. Yeah. Right. But it's you're going to get three or four guys who don't even know what Instagram, how it works. You know what I'm saying? Like you are and you're going to get some younger guys, but you're going to get less

guys. And even, you know, Hannah Brown's guys were like this. And that's nothing wrong with them. That's the time we live in. These people are growing up with like these channels and playbooks. And you're going to get legit guys who are working professionals. And that will be kind of, like you said, kind of going back to how it all started. With incorporating the new, it's like you're meshing the old in the new.

Oh, we love a meshing. Yeah. And we're trying something new and the show's the gift that keeps on giving. Why not try something new? And then, like you said, it's gonna add an interesting wrinkle for Paradise. It's gonna be like Raya,

a bunch of old guys and young girls. I love it. I love it. Is that what Raya's like? I've never been on it. Yeah, is that what it is? Maybe for you. A little bit.

But no, it's going to be, yeah, it really opens the door for me in paradise. No, I'm just kidding. But yeah, it's going to be a little older. They'll have real jobs, maybe? The guys? Well, and as you said, I think we go back to Claire is good TV.

I mean, we've had moments with her. She shut down Juan Pablo. We've seen her get emotional and break down and cry. We've seen her hilariously rematter raccoon. She's given us a lot of different elements. She's been in love triangles before on winter games. She got engaged to Benoit. And I really do think those two really tried to make it work. I interviewed them at the winter games tell all right after he proposed.

And I saw them backstage, like FaceTiming her mom. I mean, she was overjoyed in that moment you can't question claire sincere no right uh you can question her judgment but you can question all of our judgment we all have bad pickers and like i said that's not is not a criticism towards hannah brown but like uh the reasons we love hannah brown are the same reasons we've criticized claire in the past it's just a matter of perspective and it's just a matter of characters like you said in terms of who they were uh going against um i really hope like claire needs a couple of total assholes you know because that's the thing like they're gonna drive claire they're gonna drive claire crazy like the pressure of being the lead is gonna drive her

crazy and we'll see her go crazy like everyone else and Claire but we want we want to be justified you know we want to see that we don't want to see her talking to raccoons you know that was fun but now we want to see like I level the love I want to see her growth her maturity now that she's older and more polished and wise and knows what she doesn't want and what she wants but she's still gonna be claire yeah was there anybody else you were pulling for honestly i really was like i really wasn't that was the thing and i didn't think about claire you know it wasn't it wasn't on my radar and then i started hearing the rumors and i was like you know what fuck yeah that's a great idea you want a demi i want yeah

the only person i thought it was demi but like she's a Fred, and I think she's great TV. But Mina was on, and she kind of said, Demi's also in a relationship now. But also, I don't know if Demi's necessarily ready to get engaged in the next six months. And that might have been calm. I do think Claire's a better cast than Demi. Claire wasn't on my radar. I wasn't even thinking about it. No, same.

And I love it. I didn't think they were going to go far back. I mean, I think Amanda Stanton could have been an option. You know, similar to like what is Amanda Stanton? It kind of has a nice little resume and a story of unlucky in love. But again, I didn't even consider Amanda until

they considered Claire and I would have picked Claire over Amanda. I love being surprised and I love that this doesn't feel like the Ari throwback moment of the who, what, why this feels like a throwback of, Oh, I do remember her from winter games. I do remember these famous moments she had with Juan Pablo,

with the raccoon. And, you know, again, when I'm going back and looking at, I sat down with her before winter game started filming. And I went back and watched my interview it was from early 2018 and she was saying very similar things to what she said on um Good Morning America for the announcement she was saying

like you know I don't think there's anything wrong with being single I've enjoyed being single and I haven't settled for anything and so here we are Claire let's Let's go, Claire. We're excited. We'll be supporting Claire throughout, unless she fucks up, no. Claire Bear 2020. I'm really happy for her, and I think it's going to be a really exciting season, and if you are frustrated at this casting and you're listening,

I think you should go listen to us. Yes, yes. We're right. Have an open mind. Send us all your tweets. And enjoy it. And again, like just because they didn't pick, you know, Tasha or Tia doesn't mean they're not great people.

Well, you know what I love about this too is, I mean, I was sitting here saying I like Tia. Now I don't know. Maybe in two, three years we get Tia. Anything can happen. You never know. You never know. Anything can happen.

I just, you know, Tia to me would have been kind of more in the same, just a slightly older version, you know tia to me would been a kind of more in the same just a slightly older version you know but claire is a totally different shift in what we've seen in the past few seasons here we go we go well let's transition to the episode um we start this episode obviously with a rose ceremony um do you want to before we even get started on that do you want to speak your piece on uh the accusations that you spoiled oh my goodness i know it's all about inflection isn't it you know and i actually even i interviewed so if anybody missed it i sent out a tweet where i i've been kind of critiquing peter all season long playfully because he makes these big sweeping statements right you guys have heard them you've talked about them it's he says hannah ann is the most perfect woman uh i never want to let

go of madison and i'm like okay how then how are you making a 100 statement like that and that's not just the person then and there for you perfect bachelor what do you think of peter is the bachelor i think that peter is such a lovely human being with such a good heart and he's gotten so emotional and you see the emotion. I keep calling him sad, Peter. I mean, the faces he's making. I do think that Peter struggled with indecisiveness. And I think, you know, I'm really going to get analytical for a second here. And I would say this to Peter.

I've wondered if because Peter is so close with his family, I've wondered if Peter struggled making decisions out here on his own in the bachelor world. I think he probably goes back to mom and dad for a lot. And he struggled with that here. And we've seen that. And I think that he's also a caretaker. And so he's kept around really problematic relationships because he thinks that fixing things is good. And we all grow up hearing relationships are hard, right? But that doesn't mean they should always be hard. It just means they can be. And I don't know if he knows that distinction yet.

Totally. I love Peter. I've been very defensive of Peter. We've had him on the show. He's not without criticism. Right. But there's no arguing that if you live with your parents at 28, you haven't literally been out of the nest and you're going to lack certain experiences and troubled and just problems

and conflict resolution that you might have to do on your own. That's just a fact. Right. Not a criticism. Did you, I can't remember, did you ever say, because look, I know it's hard for the lead

because you have to assure people and you have to try to convey your feelings without. Sure. Did you ever say stuff along that line? I can't remember from your season. I would say that one of the biggest differences between peter and me is the bachelor is peter is just like drinking the bachelor cool he's like he's fully immersed himself in this role and true believer and i immersed myself in the role but i was at a level of consciousness outside of that world and

you know i peter didn't peter had his heart broken by Hannah. So there's no like, he certainly can relate to that. And that was real. I was just so self-conscious about my experiences being a runner up twice and what I felt and that heartbreak in those moments was real. So I was very careful. And again, it seems like Peter

is truly struggling with his choices. I wasn't struggling with my choices, especially towards the end. You were a little more, and you were measured in what you were saying. I was measured. So everything I said to Raven and Rachel was very thought out and very careful. Now, I certainly said some things that led them on, you know, like with Raven, I was like, so what ring would you like? That was a total line and totally like planned it, like just make sure that she still thought

she might. And that was a dick move as the bachelor planned it like just make sure that she still thought she might and that was a dick move as the bachelor but you kind of have to do but i there were so many other things i just didn't say that i didn't want her yeah to really think because there were things that like andy and caitlin said to me like even off camera that was like why did you fucking say that to me like why like what just stuff yeah like i love you and like I'm going to pick you. I mean, stuff like that. Really? Yeah. You were being told

you were going to be chosen? Caitlin, yeah. She said I'm going to pick you? Off camera, yeah. She was like talking about what her friends were going to say when the show's over.

Did you ever talk to her about that again? That does seem painful. Yeah, I mean, listen. It's fine. But like Caitlin, it's so hard being the bachelorette and the bachelor.

And you can criticize them, but everyone has their own experience. But yes, Annie never told me I was it. But she said other things. I was like, I could have done without that. You know what? Sometimes it's better to say nothing at all. Grub. I'll tell you what i'm uh i'm a hard worker i'm also super lazy sometimes i'm so lazy and there is nothing better than like what do i want to eat i don't know what i want to eat what should

i eat and like and because you know i'm single and i'm a single serving guy i go to the grocery store often like i don't buy groceries for i week. I know. And then I get lazy and I don't want to get in the car and go to the grocery store. You know what I do? I just Grubhub that shit. Yeah. Grubhub is great because-

By shit, I mean delicious food. A lot of time they're going to offer you discounts and like even free food just for using the app. I was at a game night the other night and everyone's like, we should have pizza. And I was like, I got it. And I was the hero. You're a hero. They delivered me donuts on Valentine's Day. Grubhub did. It was delicious. And they have so many different restaurants on there. And

it's just a good app. So yeah, Grubhub people be heroes. Just for our listeners, if you download the Grubhub app and enter promo code V-I-A-L-L, you'll get $10 off any new dinner that's $15 or more for new diners. That's promo code V-I-A-L-L for $10 off any order of $15 or more for new diners. So download the Grubhub app today and use promo code V-I-A-L-L to enjoy the restaurants you love delivered and be a hero. But yeah, Peter is this full on like, fuck it. I'm the bachelor. And this is how I feel in this moment.

He has a very Caitlin approach. Caitlin was very in the moment. And it's on camera. And I see him. You're right. It's in the moment. I mean, he says to Hannah Ann, I forget when, but I think he said to her at one point, you have nothing to worry about.

And I'm like, totally. I'm like, what the fuck? She doesn't. What do you mean? Even Victoria, she's like, I have a wallop. He's like, no need for that. Right. And it's these absolutes.

Insane. So I've been, you know, kind of teasing him about it all season long because it's so extreme. I call them. I'm like, it's a big plane. That's a 747 statement, Peter. Geez, you, Peter. Geez. You have nothing to worry about. And then fast forward to Madison and he's just like holding her saying, I'll never let go. I'll never let go. I never. Okay. But are you going to let go? You have like two other dates to get to. So I don't know. So it's insane to me. So I've been teasing him. And then I tweeted, you know, how do you not pick Hannah Ann then?

After you just called her the most perfect woman in the world. So I meant literally, like, why don't you pull a Colton? You walk away then and there. I even said it to him at the tell-all. I interviewed him and I said, Peter, you keep making these statements. How do you not just pick Hannah Ann? And so that's what I meant. But people read it as like, he doesn't pick Hannah Ann at the end of filming.

Well, you deleted it too. And that was kind of, that makes it seem like you're trying to hide something. I know. And that was my own, my comedic ego, because truly I was looking at it and I was like, I can write something funnier.

Yeah. My linguistics could be better and I want it to be better. So I'm like, I'll just delete it and rewrite it real quick. And so I tweeted a similar joke, but like different, but then people took it differently. i think people are so hungry this season because it's the first unspoiled season in a while like i interviewed chris the other day and

he said well at this point we got like three four women left and everyone was like four women who were the and i mean he he meant i don't know i think you know he's like we got three four what oh we're gonna see i don't know so we're gonna you know, he's like, we got three, four. We're going to see. I don't know. We're going to see. So Peter sends home Victoria F. Were you surprised? No. I mean, everyone's kind of expecting that. You were surprised.

I mean, the only surprise was, was Madison going to go home or not? But they obviously like overplayed that and made it seem like, you know, she was always going to show up. They, you know, they show up Peter standing by himself and it almost looks like he's about to walk over to Victoria F and Hannah Ann. But like, he was just like standing in a spot for an hour while they shot B-roll. No, I wasn't really surprised.

I mean, like his connection with Madison is seems second to none. And even I still, I'm still saying Hannah Ann's going to win. Okay. I mean, like Peter, the way he talks about victoria in the moment he i believe him but like yes we haven't seen we've seen the struggle and we can and we've talked about how like we can appreciate it certainly i can why peter's kept victoria f around because like that was me in my 20s and like trying to fix every like toxic relationship i had right um but at the end of

the day like he still had these other women's that he had these other women he had strong connections with so I wasn't shocked I think his no I was neither and I think that you know we've criticized him for his indecisiveness and for the stuff with Victoria F but okay he he finally did it now what do you think of people saying oh but he held on to fantasy until fantasy suites are over? I mean, whatever. It's hard. I think that's just a fun snark we like to say. It also might be true.

And also like, and that's a nice transition to the whole Madison waiting for sex. And I know you got some criticism too. Like, listen, what Madison did was 100% an ultimatum and I 100% am fine with that. Same. That's my thing. I think people keep thinking that an ultimatum is inherently negative and it's just by definition, not,

it's just saying, if you do this, this will happen. If you don't do this, this won't happen, whatever. That's all it is. And I support being very clear in a relationship and my issue with madison was look and again people take it so personally you're slamming her you're throwing her under the bus no i don't even know her and she's been she's seemingly been very unproblematic to all the other women i'm sure she's really lovely um i'm excited to meet her and interview her but i'm gonna criticize everybody when i and call it I see it. I think that she... She's gained a small Auburn army. They're loud, yes. Buy some followers.

I think that it was interesting to me that she accepted the fantasy sweet rose and then she was going to tell Peter this stuff. I think she should have been up front with him about a lot more, probably a lot sooner. I'm very defensive of Madison for that criticism. For the timing? Tell me. Well, you may or may not know this from your lover.

I just love saying that to you. But when it comes to timing on that show, for so many reasons, the cast have very little say. Timing in which they decide to actually say something it's very structured and certainly the timing which things are aired uh is often i'm not saying that didn't happen when it happened i'm simply saying you're questioning when it comes to timing okay uh they have producers that are very influential okay uh and i hear you you have more experience being and i also don't even i don't even care because like unless peter's not an idiot it was

pretty fucking clear what madison was saying and you know what uh vanessa wasn't a virgin she wasn't saving herself uh she didn't give me an ultimatum but it was i was i understood pretty clear that vanessa didn't want me to have sex with anyone else and the consequences that might happen if I did. And I didn't, she didn't have to pull me aside. It was pretty clear. So like, you know what I'm saying? Like this whole idea, like, well, had, had she told Peter, then Peter might make different

decisions. I don't think so. It was pretty clear that Peter was going to do what Peter was going to do. And I quote, actions speak louder than words. And then he took action. And Madison did what we've all done in relationships is I don't want to tell you what to do. I want you to do it. I want you to want to do the dishes. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I mean, look, there's a lot of gray area here. I think also what's complicated on Peter's end is he's sitting here saying, but you like, I mean,

from what we've seen, she hadn't said, I love you to him. She hadn't told him that. I also think the sex part of it is interesting because part of me wonders, well, for anybody, man, woman, whoever you are on this show, do you ever feel like, look, maybe I'm going to walk away if you've said I love you to anyone else? Like, I don't know, like the emotional pain versus the sexual betrayal, you know? We've all done that. And like I said, and I did this kind of online rant, is that like, I get it, viewers. I understand you've been watching the show and you know these rules,

but for the people who go on the show, they don't know what they signed up for. It is an insane, it's an insane experience. And the truth is, for all the criticism we talk about people in terms of like, whether they're genuine in their feelings or whether they're for Instagram followers, if you are someone who goes on the show and it doesn't, not everyone who goes has the same experience, but if you truly have real

feelings and fall in love, then you don't give a shit about the show anymore. You're trying to have a real experience and you're trying to say, well, I'm considering getting engaged with this person I barely know in nine weeks. And if I do, do i'm gonna be engaged in a real world and maybe live with them so like i'm going to i don't give a shit about the show i don't this is all it all becomes so fucking stupid to you uh that you don't care and that's just what madison is is how that's how she's reacting and it's she's no different than everyone else who's ever been on the show yeah yeah well and i i think like i mean people were also yeah it was the ultimatum thing at the end of the day i just think it was an ultimatum and i will say it was i don't feel

that i know madison as well as i want to and i feel that way with most of the women this season like i don't even with luke okay and people people were comparing Madison and Luke. Luke was saying to Hannah, and I don't think they're the same. I think they're very different, but if we're talking just ultimatums, Luke was saying to Hannah though, like I came on this show because I was like drawn to you and compelled to come on this show, even though my morals don't really align with the parameters and format of this show. I don't know the reasoning for Madison. And that's like a question for me. And I don't know if it's wound up on the editing room floor why she decided to even come i've never heard her say i fell in love with you watching hannah's season i know you're the four windmill

guy and that's not my life but i'm overpowered by it so that's like a question i came to go on be on like every person who goes on the show goes for the experience whether that's instagram followers now they just go for the show like no again when you know you know you signed up for we're not like no no the producer doesn't be like do you do you know exactly what you're supposed to do do you know that no there's like do you want to come on are you open to this just be that's it like there's not this like you know like i know i think it's not like we have to swear in blood that we have to be okay with the process it's like you say yes to a neat experience that's it it. Yeah. But when she was saying, look, I've had to look away.

I don't like a guy kissing other women. I was just thinking, but babe, that happens from night one on. And maybe she just sort of meant it affected her more than she thought it would. Maybe that was what she was saying. And when she said to Peter, I don't want to be,

whatever the word was, criticized for my beliefs or something, I didn't think Peter was criticizing her. So it was a lot of gray area. Communication has been a struggle. And I've even had a hard time totally understanding where people are coming from when I'm watching these conversations. I actually thought as much as they could, Peter and Madison handled themselves well

in that moment. And I agree with you. Peter wasn't criticizing her. I think she was just more speaking in general about her was trying to explain. About like her points of view and the fact that she has a hard time watching Peter kiss women. Again,

every single person in her shoes every season before her has felt that way. Yeah. Every single, and we're only talking about this because the show decided

to make this about sex. That's it. If it was relevant in other seasons they would talk about it and if if the lead every season admitted that they had sex with someone else these outcomes might go very chaos well and it's been so confusing too because we got so little madison for so long and then all of us you know what i mean she was barely in episodes she's very measured and very safe yeah you know, but now that's why I liked it. I felt like I got to know Madison more than any in any other moment.

But look, ultimatums aside, she came back. She did come back. And now I'm going to pivot to criticize. She kind of was giving him a little bit of grief, though. Now I'm going to pivot to criticize Madison. You know what, Madison? You spoke how you felt, your piece, whatever, you know, but if you you you spoke how you felt your peace whatever you know but if you want to stick around now like shut up and like just don't be the person like we again relations

we do this like if you get cheated on or someone wrongs you'd be like you just hang it over their head the whole time it's like now you need to decide whether you can accept this or move on like don't stick around and like just shame Peter with every look you give him. Because that's just like, ugh. She wanted to kill him. Yeah. Have we ever seen a lead offer a rose?

Have someone say yes and then the response go, are you sure? Are you sure? And then the heartbeat and the might. Oh, that was, I mean, I think if I- Could you imagine being Hannah Ann in that moment? Ugh. Poor Hannah Ann. She just started crying. That poor girl poor girl she's just been she's cried at moments when

i didn't expect her to cry i think she's just so like dear lord help me it's like hannah ann is just like i'm no because she is she's she i've said this all along i think she's uh people criticize hannah ann for not being smart because she's a model and pretty and she doesn't and again i'm not saying she's albert einstein but i think she's a sharp little cookie you know and I think she thinks about what she needs to say and she's figured Peter out and she's just like I'm just doing sucking it up and I'm just doing what I fucking have to do and I want some fucking credit man Peter I'm here to validate you I'm here to reassure and just like she's just watching peter and hannah this i mean madison just having like this acting like she's not even there uh it's i just i mean i think that that scene

was so concise i i think i've memorized the exchange i think it was for us madison Will you accept this rose? Silence, silence Yeah, silence Are you sure? Because I did some shit What? I was overwhelmed by this It was great television I mean, I said things were literally falling apart

At one point the wind blew the petals off the rose, like things are falling apart. But how did you feel? I really want your opinion, Nick, on, okay, she gave the ultimatum, and then she came back. Like, what does that say? That is confusing, because, I mean, I understand the moment, but I'm curious, and we don't know, we assume that when Madison left that dinner table, that was the first time they've seen each other since. So I assume that to be true. It makes no sense that I wouldn't talk it out in the fantasy suite.

Like of all the times, just like, yeah, clearly you're not going to have sex, but go behind camera and be like, what the fuck? Like, you know, like what up? You know, like, and they didn't have that, I assume. So that's very awkward that Peter is operating with like the night in which you really try to have some like real conversations. Be like, by the way, what is your favorite color?

Because we don't talk about that on these dates. Like, what is your favorite food? I think with both Peter and Madison and Peter and Victoria F, he has held on to very initial connections. And how well does he really know either of them? I'm not saying there isn't good stuff there, but how developed is the relationship really? I would maybe say that Hannah Ann and him have the most developed relationship at this point. Totally.

No, again, and this is where Peter's immaturity comes out in that he we've i've been there you know matt he fucked up quote unquote in his eyes madison has made him peter feel like he's fucked up and that's where i don't agree with madison right she's now now she's kind of shaming him with this like attitude and behavior post like i'm i'm team madison up into like showing how she's feeling and now i'm like all, all right, Madison, like lock it up. Like now you're shaming him and that's not necessarily okay. And so Peter is thinking, I'm going to fuck, like if I relate to Peter right now in this moment, cause I'm just like, I'll fix this.

I fucked up. I'll fix this. Like put this on me. And we've all been there and I know what Peter's thinking in this moment. So yeah, he's making decisions based on all the wrong information and all the wrong reasons, if you will, trying to like be the romantic that he,

he wants. He's always believed he can be. I, we're at such an interesting place right now because I feel like, and Chris has been saying in some of the interviews he's done, like across the board, it's almost like the season is like, like you could jump in right now,

I feel like, and have not seen a lot of the season and just be watching. Okay, now we're down to the, and everything is happening. Yeah. I mean, everything is about to happen. I think Peter's parents coming in now

are going to like play a huge factor in everything. Yeah. And I was so interested in the teaser when we saw they seem to have issues with both Hannah Ann and Madison. I don't know. I mean, who's Barb crying about? You know, if I said I think Hannah Ann's going to win,

but if I were watching this and the show didn't end in November and seemingly what Peter said about no one's able to spoil it and Chris teasing, like Peter doesn't even know how this ends yet. Right. What does that mean? It would make me like my only explanation.

I don't think this is the case because it's been so long that we would see it that Peter got someone pregnant. Like it would almost it almost it reads as if and like and I literally was like watching and thinking, well, shit, if he had sex with Hannah and the first fantasy. Are there enough days to go by for her to like think she's pregnant take a pregnancy test i don't think that's possible in a week and a half i mean you guys are the women are the experts no i think i don't think a weekend yeah so like i'm like because that i love that you think that it could be in a week i don't i don't but i was just like is this possible because that would make sense like all of a sudden like he's gonna pick Madison he's like fuck it

I'm gonna pick Madison Hannah's like dude I'm pregnant and he's just like I'm so sorry to Madison but I gotta go do this like dad thing you know like

well if I'm just doing a different type of math which is interview math okay so I've talked to Chris I've talked interviewed done a phone with Rob Mills

about it interviewed Peter right which interviewed him at the tell-all and yeah Chris says in the tell-all even our bachelor doesn't know how his season ends. Yeah.

And then I asked Peter about that. And of course, Peter doesn't really know what to say. He's like, well, maybe I don't. I'm like, well, do you or don't you? He's like, I don't know. You know, he's just teasing it. But don't you think that that must mean? So when I interviewed Rob Mills, he said, well, look, what we've really found on this show is that the live finale is where so much

happens you know you look at hannah season when we learn more about what happened so doesn't that just something something must still be going on maybe maybe it's all a big tease but i don't know i was texting with one of the very important producers and i was just like i was just like i would love was it chris harris no Are you guys texting a lot? Oh, jealous. It wasn't Chris. And you know, they, they, like,

they don't tell me anything. Like I'm not like red and they don't like, I'm, I'm an outsider. Part of the press, if you will, with the podcast, but I have still have relationships with them.

And I was like, Hey, I would love to have the runner up on this podcast as soon as possible. And they're like, well, we don't know who that is yet. Kind of thing. And I honestly think they were just fucking with me, the the theme of like you got to watch a live

show because this is when it's all going to happen and that might be true well and with a season like this where peter's quote-unquote front runner has seemed borderline impossible to discern episode to episode it wouldn't surprise me if there was still a lot to figure out. And we still don't know what this big reveal he gets in the end, you know, like the thing that makes him almost pass out. So what is that? How much did that change the game

literally at the end? I don't know. They have me believing that we really need to watch this live show because we really don't. 100%. Yeah, and I'm here for it. Yeah.

Well, and again, like, I mean, even Ari's season. Okay, he picked one woman and then, you know, then that ending with Beck. I don't know. Anything can happen. So I am on the edge of my seat. You really not know, Lauren.

I really don't know. Really? Well, and I've said this before. Look, here's the honest truth. Before Chris and I started dating, I've always been a member of the press covering the show. So we do things like Entertainment Tonight and other outlets We cover dates, that's where I first met

Nick, interviewing him at his photo shooter At his date, and we agree to not Reveal some of that stuff, so I've always known a little bit more Because we're covering it But then also, I don't want to know The end because I enjoyed the show This has been my favorite Covering it is because I don't know

I want to watch it And I get spoiled not trying to be spoiled And this has been my favorite like covering it is because i don't know i want to watch and i get spoiled not trying to be spoiled and this has been a ton of fun like it's i'm i'm authentically spitballing with you two trying to figure it out because i have no fucking clue i want to watch it i want to be able to ask the questions that fans want to know the answers to so i want to be in the moment and again i don't know for all literally i wouldn't surprise me either if like for everything that seems to be happening because i've interviewed peter at all these different points during the season before uh right after it ended a little bit after it ended and his like he said some things the same but his tones also changed whatever i'm just like for all we know

whatever it is yesterday could be different today the finale's next week and it's live so i don't know and the fact, when Peter was just like, no one's going to spoil it, I was like, all right, buddy, calm down like you rookie. Right, okay.

You're like, listen, I've been on this show a couple of times. He showed us, well, let's finally get to the tell all. Okay, sure.

By the way, didn't you feel, well, I felt like I loved, and they've done this before, but I loved that these bits of the actual show were mixed in with the tell all because after this season, after every woman

took a villainous turn, I got to be honest, this was not the tell-all I've been looking forward to the most. My favorite moment of the tell-all was when they introduced the women because like every season you have a handful of fan favorites and they'll go through like- And they'll get cheers. And then like the last three, there's some real big ones. Not this time. Nothing.

It was all just, yeah. I know. No one got any real cheers. Yeah, I mean, listen, it was a tell-all. I think for me, some of the winners were Kelly. No, I'm sorry. Kelly wasn't there. Kelly was not there.

Kelly was not there. Also probably a winner. Do you have any dirt on why Kelly wasn't there? No, all that i've seen is i know she was just dming tons of people who were asking her why weren't you there and kelly was saying i'm not invited i don't know we weren't i we were asking there we were not i am curious i was disappointed it's clearly wasn't an accident she was clearly not invited uh for whatever there was a reason i don't know why um i don't know alea for i was meant to lay a layer for me i thought

alea was you meant to say kelsey because no you i thought you accidentally said kelly instead of alea i think kelly well here are my winners my winners were peter because i thought peter handed himself well he's like listen i he owned it i own i'm with criticism but he's also like again he is trying to find love that's like it's not supposed to be clean. It is messy. I thought Kelsey was a winner. She showed self-awareness and like, listen, yeah. And she defended herself. Alea, once again, was like a winner with people attacking her for what, like.

Well, you and I, I think we're in a small boat of people who from those episodes were like, why is everyone coming after this? What is she really done wrong? Big loser for me was once again, Sydney. It was just like, when she was just like, I don't know, there's something about this girl. Like, I was like, are you going to shake her in an alley?

Yeah, what does that mean? I know. She just, it was just like the guy, like when guys didn't like me and Caitlin season, my guy intuition says he's a, like, fuck you. Like, and then here's a layout. And I love it when people go on tell on say like, I'm this annoying in real life.

Like it was just like a very like, all that I'm looking for. Yes. All that I'm looking for to tell all truly is for people to own their stuff, own what you did, own who you are. And then if necessary, apologize for it and be able to laugh at yourself a little bit.

It's a reality show at the end of the day, guys. And I felt that some people were able to do that. Some people were not Tammy. I thinkmy should have owned some of her stuff more tammy was a loser loser i'm really and what's weird is like when i interviewed her i really liked tammy in the interviewer everyone likes super cool yeah but like i didn't i never thought it was okay that she doubled down and was just like and for you to say that somebody has alcoholic tendencies and she was so adamant well i didn't say she's an alcoholic uh it's pretty much the same thing and this is on a national television show and you really don't

know this person and that's a major accusation to make and like i'm not okay with that and it's hard because again i interviewed tammy after she's very enjoyable in person so i don't know these two times she seemed like a cool hang but yes she doubled down and like it was kind of weird uh biggest winner for me vict Victoria F? Victoria freaking F. Yeah. I was sitting there and so we're at, we're in the press room

at the taping, right? And we're just watching it. It happened. And I got to give a shout out to Chris Harrison because he was saying everything that I think was on all of our minds and asking her all the questions

I wanted and just sitting there and saying, where was this woman? And I don't know what happened in between the season and now. Well, one, she probably had five months to like, think about it, to watch it, prepare to assume some of the questions she might get asked. I mean, people have given me some shit for playing devil's advocate. I've criticized Victoria F on the show, but I say she's hot once in the beginning of the season everyone's like oh nick's gonna like not burying her like i just don't i don't want to bury all these people like she's been beaten up yeah real bad and some things very justifiable um she's been involved in a lot of shit so she

deserves some criticism but i don't think crucifying anyone on the show well they're all people and that's a significant difference to me too and they talked about in this episode i know we'll get into it but i never sit here and call someone the b word i never say i hate somebody i don't feel those things i'm gonna like say my thoughts on your behavior on the show and what's been hard about this season is even victoria f like she really what's frustrated me the most about her is like her communication and just just like be better in that but she's not like she's not been evil to anybody and every step of the way on this season she again it's not an excuse because it is frustrating like i've been in relationships where it's just like they go totally insane and then apologize afterwards like thanks

for apologizing but like the damage was this is fucking getting old right and like so that's still toxic right when she was out there it's just like she was laughing herself she apologized to peter yep she didn't make any excuses no you know she didn't totally explain the uh the accusations for the uh breaking up marriages but at the same time what can she say that any like people aren't like you either believe her or you don't i don't think she was going to change anyone's mind in that moment i had a problem with that woman who came on because to me. Yes. Her bio says public figure. Oh, Lord.

The pictures with the roses and her family. Oh, I didn't even see. I didn't even Instagram her. She went to Us Week. Yeah, it was her press tour. And I'm sorry. And I've said this when we had Tayshia on. And I'm always very critical of the ex who like.

Is coming in. And goes with the press. Well, Jed's girlfriend was a different story. That's totally different. She was like, I'm fucking dating this guy. I thought we were dating. Yeah. But this woman, first of all, you're not even the woman who she allegedly broke a relationship

up from. So we're already talking third party, second party, whatever. And you got to bring some receipts if you're going to make an accusation that big what do you mean she broke up relationships like that's a lot of gray area to me i don't know was the relationship party in trouble was she did she even know that we just don't we know so few details i've heard i've heard from some producers that they for what it's worth they believe her and it was like believe these victoria okay um and it was again to your point of grayer it was like uh this person was getting a divorce in like the classic case of i'm dating a divorce guy he's not officially divorced he's separated and like and it's like

okay you know like it was just something like that to me so who knows but she didn't explain herself very well but at the same time, what was she addressing? What was she going to say? Yeah. It was also interesting too, because it seemed very clear while Chris asked her some tough questions, they gave her an opportunity to redeem herself.

And I think that's very important when you watch it, because again, like Claire or even with me or other cast members, some of us take a fucking beating sometimes. Sometimes. And again, Victoria F, this is who she is she deserved this but like that doesn't mean we have a way of leaning in again like the hannah brown could have been criticized but and she was but they have a way too of being like trying to make good on you and they made they gave her a platform to try to redeem herself. And I think that that's not to be missed.

And it means that the producers like her as a person for whatever it's worth. I don't know if that doesn't mean she's a saint. And sometimes producers will be like, I don't fucking like this person. And even a lot of people who look good on the show, but they're just like, I don't know. And they come out like. Well, I mean, it's hard because look good on the show, but they're just like, and they come out like. Well, I mean, it's hard because they're making a show, right? And the show is how many minutes out of all the hours they film. So really, I know they know these people probably, I mean, obviously way better than we do. Sometimes the producers working on the ground, so to speak, aren't in control of how things

are shown, right? So they might be like, you know, that fuckerer looks good but he's a terrible human being that happens i have heard that before i've heard before that people that they like because of the narrative of the show they might come across looking better than they actually are or because of how they're on camera versus how they're off camera but i think at the end of the day again the tell-all to me is are you owning it saying sorry if needed and laughing at yourself and victoria checked all those boxes except why didn't he they addressed the white lives matter stuff i don't know i mean i know that she had a she had addressed it on her social media and a lot of people were uh and rightfully

so a lot of people were critical of the timing and a lot of people were critical of her of her sincerity and i think that's fair to criticize her i guess my my takeaway was listen people who apologize for things they don't mean have a tendency of being repeat offenders. So let's see. You know, it's kind of like she said the right things. I don't know. Like it was totally wrong. It was not okay for her to be a part of that. And she said she was like, you know, it's like, okay.

And why the show didn't my guess is i think that everyone wants to move on yeah i mean right or wrong i don't know i understand that maybe it's not the right call yeah or like what else would she say i because she i know she apologized for it on her social media and again it was like when i interviewed peter about that he's like well i don't know if she really meant it i'm like but it's still happy you know you still gotta address it and i it's so it's very sensitive. And I understand if that's, if her apology wasn't okay for some people that I get it. Well, and I have no, no, no idea.

Maybe it's interesting that that happened in an episode where also they did this segment, you know, with Rachel. Right, right. The Rachel Lindsay, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, so let's just touch on that. I'm glad they did that.

I'm glad they did that segment with Rachel. I think Rachel was the perfect person to have because as we saw with some of these tweets and you were there, there were a lot more and some even more graphic. And some of them did touch on people's race and personal things about them that they can't change. Not that that makes it more like

if you tell someone to kill themselves and even if they're not a person of color, it doesn't make it less wrong. It's horrible. It's really sad. I was glad that they touched on it and took a stand on it. I think they handled it in all the right ways,

as you said, with bringing Rachel in, with really showing people the true disgust of what some of this is. And I just think we're all human beings here. Everybody should know the difference between I'm giving my thoughts on this fun, crazy reality show. And yeah, sometimes I'm critiquing people and we're getting in a dialogue versus

I'm saying something hateful and villainous. And part of it is to do with something you can't control at all or part of it is something where i'm telling you to harm it like everybody knows that line you all know that line and i actually loved that your lover chris um pointed out uh he said like i'm not talking when he asked the women i'm not talking about criticism i'm talking about hate because there is a difference like you're going to get criticized if you go on the show we criticize people of course uh that's different like i don't like it when and i've seen memes out there other podcasts just like uh whether it's victoria or victoria p or even sydney who we've

been critical of it's just like just because you see something on the show doesn't mean you google something and say look they're a narcissist it's like no you don't fucking know like people are just like i know you know we're not medical professionals It's like, you don't fucking know. Like people are just like, I know, you know, we're not medical professionals diagnosing like these behaviors. You're not a serial killer. You know, there's, you know,

like some of these women demonstrated toxic behavior and we can criticize them for that. Like Victoria F demonstrated toxic behavior in a relationship. I don't know if that's how she is in real relationships, but that's what she showed to Peter.

And it's, that's fair game to criticize. Right. But I'm not going to give her a mental diagnosis from this reality show that I'm watching her on. And I'm not a professional and I'm not going to tell her to harm herself. Like and everybody, again, should know these lines. It feels so obvious to me, but people deal with horrible stuff like that. And it is it is like the one dark side of the show. And I was glad that they addressed.

I don't think our listeners are. I do wish they had acknowledged that they hadn't necessarily treated each other with kindness. Good point. Instead of just being so victim. I didn't totally agree with you, Rochelle. There was no self-awareness by the collective group,

which is par for the course. I don't think we had much resolution in this tell-all and I was a little bit disappointed in it. Again, I think Victoria F was solid in the hot seat. I think that other women had moments of demonstrating self-awareness, but many of them didn't and many of them didn't come to resolutions on stuff that feels obvious to me and I did not walk away feeling like there was as much growth as I would have. Totally. And I get why Sydney spoke up because one of those tweets seemed to be a direct attack at her.

And obviously I can't imagine what that would be like for Sydney. It just, it read awkward afterwards when she was talking about wanting to be a role model, which I think is great for her to want to do. But I think there's some other behavior that she demonstrated that it would have been good to acknowledge

if she's like, you know what? I look back and like she doubled down on alea as opposed to saying you know what i didn't know you i made an assumption off of something and based off maybe on my own insecurities and i felt like maybe i picked on you for really no reason other than like you were different than me And she didn't say that. And she should have said that. Because regardless of who she is, she's not immune to like being a bully to anyone else either. No, I wish that there would have been a,

hey, we're gonna go and have a coffee after this and talk more or something. Like it just felt, it didn't feel uh and i i will i mean the the yelling the talking over each other i mean i just real housewives for you chris is such a pro there he always just lets him do it at first and then he's and then what what i love is he kind of subtly invokes look if you want to be on tv this is how you do it because he says ladies if you if we want to you know we need to be able to use this and we can't because you're screaming over each other. And it does happen at every tell, but it was really bad at this one.

Really bad. And he let it go on a little bit longer, I think. And probably he knew I needed to emphasize a point here that this is just a collective bunch of chaos. It's just, it is this basic thing of you guys. If you don't listen to other people, why do you expect to be listened to? And many women on that stage, I don't think understood that they want to be listened to,

but they don't want to listen to other people. And it was rough. I took four Advil. Oh my gosh. Well, uh, but that being said, I mean,

again, they're all human beings. I think that I want to see many of these women on paradise. Still, I wish that McKenna had licked her lips one more time. Yes. I missed that moment. I wanted to see that.

I was really, McKenna was a loser for me too. It was just like, again, no self-awareness. Yeah. Found my damn voice. She didn't even like make fun of it. She tried to, yeah. And she actually tried to do more of like, more of that. How dare, oh fuck, shut up.

Do you think she was licking her lips just to be a meme no no i think she was probably and i'm not no never mind do you still remember her speech lauren what do you still remember her speech oh you are strong and you were no i lost it i did i memorized it real quick i saw those i recreated it from my instagram i do it every morning now lauren thanks so much for coming. Thank you. I couldn't imagine having a better person to help me recap this episode.

Oh, Nicholas. It was a lot of fun. Best of luck. Congrats on all your success and everything you're doing over at Entertainment Tonight. Can I say, if you guys don't know about it, I do this Bachelor recap show, Roses and Rosé. Roses and Rosé.

Thank you, girl. That theme song life. So I'm on Instagram at Lauren Zima. And please go check out Roses and Rosé. It's so funny. Thank you. And you know, Nick and I have said a lot of things today. So I guess we're going to be getting some tweets and DMs.

But keep it critical and not hateful, everybody. Why do you hate Tayshia? I don't. I don't. Like, why are you throwing Madison under the bus? I'm not. I'm just questioning her appearance and, or not her appearance, but questioning her position on the show.

We're having a dialogue. A dialogue. Well, don't forget, guys, to sending your reviews, sending your questions. And again, for those of you listening, we love you tuning in for the Bachelor Recaps. We are doing some great things on Mondays and Wednesdays.

If you are a true Vile High Club member, that's a new name. Oh, I love. You like that, right? I support puns so much. Yeah, check us out. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Lauren, this is our 101 episode. Congratulations. Yeah. So make sure to check us out on Monday's Ask Nick. We do a lot of relationship advice

with people calling in and sharing their stories and we have some amazing interviews for you on Wednesdays. Tomorrow, Rochelle, who do we have again?

We have our- On Wednesday, you mean? The Lady Gang. Lady Gang. Lady Gang. Oh, great. Oh, my girl Kelty Knight? Yeah, they're fun.

Yes, another Entertainment Tonight correspondent. Yeah. What about a, do you do a segment called Vile Smiles where you talk about positive stories

god no that is not on brand not at all the vile trials where you decide if someone's right or wrong I'm just coming up

with puns now great you'll have to come back for an Ask Nick episode oh yes I will you do the complete the cycle.

Vile trials. Let's go. All right, Lauren. Thanks so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you both. We will see you all tomorrow. Bye.