The Viall Files - E1012 - Love Is Blind’s Patrick, Kacie and Blake, Taylor Swift’s New Album, Meredith Marks DJ Set & RHOC

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It’s time to dive deep into the first 6 episodes of Love is Blind, and to help us, we’ve got Patrick and Kacie for a little he said/she said regarding their time on the show! Plus, Blake stops by to talk about his sudden exit… Meanwhile, we get into Taylor Swift’s new album, Meredith Marks DJ sets, the danger of the algorithm, RHOC and more! You won’t want to miss it.  “You need to trust me is different than you can trust me.” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 1-855-646-8855 and leave us a message. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Bilt - Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to https://joinbilt.com/viall  Helix Sleep - Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for 20% off sitewide. Bombas - Head over to https://bombas.com/viall and use code viall for 20% off your first purchase. Cymbiotika - Go to https://cymbiotika.com/viall to get 20% off plus free shipping. Nanit-  Right now, Nanit is offering 25% off just for our listeners. Get 25% off your first order with code BABY25. Go to https://nanit.com and use code BABY25. to save.   Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:13) - Household Headlines (19:41) - Love Is Blind and Blake Interview (52:51) - Patrick Interview (01:12:39) - Kacie Interview (01:32:03) - Discussing the Interviews (01:36:02) - RHOC Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @patrickwsuzuki @anita_bigmac @blake_t_anderson @susiecevans @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell @the_mare_bare  

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined. by my lovely wife here at the lake. We're back at the lake, enjoying it. We got the household in the new, brand new studio in L.A. Susie Jones, uh, right? Yeah.

Nailed it. Evan, Evans. Anyway, she is joining the household today. And wherever you, the household is listening, we hope that you are having a lovely day. We had a lovely weekend. We got back to Lake. We were back in L.A. last week came back to Lake. Mother Nature blessed us with some warm weather.

I think most of the country experienced this heat wave, which I think people are out and about. We're up in northern Wisconsin and we're getting 80 degree weather. I was paddleboarding. Well, today it's like 50 in rain. Yeah, it's okay. We got the weekend. It was lovely. It was lovely.

Nick put river in the water at the lake. She was like in the lake. Right by the house, it's obviously shallow enough to where she can stand. And so she was like with all her cousins, like just playing in the water. It was so cute. We also had a fun and exciting week last week. We had a very busy Thursday evening. We went to two different events.

We were invited to go to the I Like Me, I guess, movie premiere. It's produced by Ryan Reynolds and Colin Hanks, son of Tom Hanks. Maybe it's just my age group. Sierra, you're, you know John Candy. Susie, do you know John Candy? I don't know. Guys. We, I don't know.

Mary. Yes, I know John Candy. Sarah, how old are you? Nick, why wouldn't you ask Mary? I just turned 35. I'm the free key. Home alone. Okay, 35.

That's like, that's... Uncle Buck. Oh, Uncle Buck, yeah. Uncle Buck. I know Uncle Buck. S.C.TV. Thank you. Home alone.

He's the poca player in Home Alone. Come on, yeah. Uh-huh. Okay, I know. Yes, yes. I didn't have a guy. Plains. Plains, not bad.

Planes trains and automobiles. Planes trains and automobiles. They shut down the 405 when John Candy passed away at a young age of 43. Anyways, it's a beautiful documentary. We got a ton of fun going. They had this really fun panel at the end. Martin Short was there. Nicole Culkin was there.

Obviously, so many of these very talented and legendary actors who had the blessing and privilege of performing with John Candy back in the day. John Candy's son Chris and daughter Jennifer were also there. That was cool. Very fun event. And I got to do a red carpet. It looked really nice.

Aw. Okay. Mama was out. Mamma Cita. And then we hop, skipped, and a jump down to West Hollywood where our queen Meredith Marks was performing one of her DJ sets Justin, Baby, Sweet Baby, Justin. Oh my God, Sweet Baby, Justin. And Sierra joined us for that evening.

The whole Marks family was there. And then I did a shot ski with I thought we're going to do it with Meredith, but she was too busy DJing. So it was just us. And then Natalie shook her ass. I said after the second baby, I'm retiring from throwing ass. At least you have ass, baby. But we'll give it to the second baby. Please don't retire from that. It caught my eye.

I'm not going to lie. I'm so jealous. I tuned in. No one gives you instructions when you do a special guest DJ performance appearance. Right. No one tells you what to do, right? I thank that for my wife because I would have just gone on stage and stood there like a goddamn idiot. Kind of like, you know, like what's his name in Teledega Nights where I don't have to do with my hands.

Natalie, she steps up. She knows that the ass is serving. And then we left We got off stage immediately As soon as we got on, we got off. What kind of tequila were you guys drinking from the Shotsky? Yeah, was it Vita?

Oh, it was like really strong water. Yeah. Oh, nice. So I was Vita. Yeah, it was Vita. It was diluted a lot to, you know, save money. No, that was our request.

Yeah. Why are we retiring, shaking ass after a second baby? Because, you know, I just... No. No, no. No, if you got it. No, it's just like all the people out there who think Taylor Swift is going to stop making music after she gets married. That's sexist.

The mom should be allowed to shake ass and perform their passions. Just, you know, like being a family and having a family with you and being married is like the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. And what I'm so proud of is how much we like, we haven't changed our life. I mean, obviously we're very lucky to continue to like get help and we have Natalie's mom. We have our parents. But like, ever since we got. Mary Nally has been become more a part of this show.

She's done more. She's chasing her dreams. She's a host of a Netflix show. And for all the people out there who think he needs to slow down after you get married or have kids, I say fuck that. And fuck that to all the people

who suggest that Taylor Swift is going to stop making beautiful music. Do we like her new album? No. Okay. Personally. There's a bopp or two, but Susie, what do you think?

Okay, so this is so bad because I love Taylor Swift. Um, I've been so busy that I haven't had a chance to fully listen all the way through, but I, the few that I've listened to, I like. Which ones? I feel like she's getting a lot of, um, okay, let me pull it up. The name of Ophelia. It's not the Redwood one. Oh, no, I love the Redwood one. I'm jamming to Travis Kelsey's Pee, okay? I just am riding it. I liked it. You're riding it? Not his, but I'm riding the song. Do you think she was like, uh, tricking people when she gave us centimeters instead of inches? No, she's, the song is two minutes and 30 seconds. So people are like, oh, 23 centimeters. What is 23 centimeters?

Nine inches. Wait, explain to me the Easter. No, that's got to be it. The song is two minutes and 30 seconds. So why do we assume it's in seconds? I don't know. Well, what is 23 inches? You think his dick is, what, 15 feet?

Two feet? So wait, wait, wait. So just to be clear, there's one song on this album that's two. minutes and 30 seconds with no other one no it's the wood song it's about his dick it is about it's about it's very clearly about Travis and she's like talking about him it's um no it's the redwood that opened up her thighs it's the redwood that opened up her thighs Taylor literally and it's two minutes and 30 seconds and that is equivalent to nine inches and god bless her soul really yeah i'll be praying for her if that's the case actually i have a thought what may she's 35

And couldn't say the word dickmatized. Achmatized. She's also like too classy and too Easter egg you to just come out and say dickmatized. Okay, but she can call Charlie X-E-X a Coke addict. But did she say that? That was kind of wild. But did she say that? I just think every song sounds like another song.

She said, you call me boring Barbie when the coax got you brave. And it's like, okay. You called your, she just basically called herself boring Barbie. And didn't Charlie like write some A song? Sympathy is a knife, which is literally about like being insecure when you're like around someone who like has so much more like clout and power and experience than you and just feeling like really insecure running in that circle. Okay. And that's what the song's about. And then Taylor Swift comes out with being like, oh, you're you do coke.

Honestly, shade. I love it. She's getting messy. Get her on the show. Yeah. She does podcast now. Book her. Yeah. It was like a soft maybe for Taylor. for us, but now that she's talking her shit, we're ready to have her. Literally. I have questions. I'm into it. Like, the stuff I've heard, I feel like I keep seeing a lot of, like, shade.

I also feel like there was really no other way this was going to go because she was so overhyped. Like, she just had the biggest two years of her life. And then people who weren't Swifties, like, kind of tagged on for, like, the trendiness of it. And so then these people are, like, listening to the album. And if you didn't really have an appreciation for her, then you're kind of like, oh, this is kind of weird because, like, like.

has a Swifty, like, we're kind of weird. And, like, she's kind of weird. And so then I feel like if you weren't really tapped in, you're now seeing everybody else, like, critique it. And you're kind of like, oh, maybe this isn't cool anymore. It's not for you. Yeah, it's not for you. So, I mean, I get it.

Like, I do think some of the songs sound similar to other songs. Swifty to Swifty. Like, that's the one thing where I'm like, this for sure sounds like Victoria's Secret. That song. I think the life of the showgirl sounds like it. Like, there's songs that you hear it and you're like, I've heard this before. Jackson 5. Very oddly similar to some songs, which might be the point, I don't know, but she's also

sued other people for using her, like, sounds. Her beats. But also, like, she's, like, come out with, like, 50 songs. I feel like in a year, not all of them are going to be, like, A plus a bob for everyone, you know? That's so true. I also think a lot of people, I saw someone talking about this saying that, like, a lot of people are comparing this album to, like, folklore and Evermore and saying, like, how is this

the same person who wrote these songs? and it's like this person was the person was saying like folklore and evermore came out in like 2020 when no one was getting any music we were all like stuck inside we thought we were going to die and she literally gave like no there was no press there was no marketing it was just like all of a sudden boom and albums out and it was like oh my god we've all needed this and now there's been like so much hype around this there's been like a live countdown and i think people just like made their expectations like some personal expectations and taylor did what taylor's going to do, which is like not what you expect. And I think honestly, it's like a fun. It's a fun

album. Like I definitely don't read into the lyrics as much as other people do. And maybe that's why I'm like, I don't know. It's kind of like fun song to sing. I mean, some people have too much time in their hands. Like, I mean, I thought we'll get into it. But this episode of OC was one of my favorite of the season. And the fact that there's a whole ass business for rich, I'm assuming mostly white women to walk in break some pots and pans only to glue them back together is the most like you have too much fucking time on your hands business i've ever fucking heard of in my life uh anyway uh we do have a great episode lined up for you today obviously love is blind is out there it's making waves it's a really fun messy season and we got some cast members for you this episode fan favorite patrick

will be joining us as well i feel like he's kind of a fan favorite people like him love him anyways I do. I'm a fan. I like Patrick. He is with us. He'll be joining us momentarily as well as his, I guess his ex, his lying ex. I don't know. I think she's lying. Casey, a little he said, she said of how things went down. She was like, I love you. And then talking to producers being like, I can't little. Anyways, we'll hear from the horse's mouth, both of them. Also, Blake, who went home, he stopped by to give us a little bit of insight. I was just kind of fascinated about like what causes someone to just be all in in the pods.

and then like something tells them I got to get the fuck out of here. Probably your number one leaving would do it for me. Yeah, there's that. Anyways, so we got some sound bites from Blake as well. It's a jam-packed love is blind episode and I'm glad we're out of Minneapolis, no offense,

and we're back in the Denver because people are a lot messyer out in the west, you know? I'll say. Maybe it's all the weed. Then we'll be getting into some housewives, a little OC, a little Miami reunion, apparently I, Adriana and

Julia. The scandal. Crazy. Yeah. Before we get into love is blind, I'm going to go in my soapbox

for a little bit. Just to remind people, the internet is not real and to stay off your phone. And now he always hears me talk about this. But like, if we have a common enemy

as a human species, it is the algorithms, people. I just want you to remember I had, I caught up with my friend over the weekend. I had a girl's night.

I had my friend come over. And it was a type of friend that like we're very close and we feel safe having like conversations. And so the conversation started something like this. Well, my algorithm is showing me this. And then he would reply, well, my algorithm's showing me this. And honestly, like that really like gave context to our conversation because like just remember like when you go outside and you're engaging with people like when you're on your phone, it's just it's a totally different universe. It's not real life. And people talk about like online what people are saying online as if like it's the real world and that's not the case people say

whatever the fuck they want with their thumbs it's fucking crazy like get your kids off your phone like be off your phone and like people are just becoming zombies and if you don't have the self awareness to like the shit that you feel when you're on your phone versus the shit like like you feel when you're meeting humans at a coffee shop or like going to a game and interacting with people whether it's just like people who root for the same team as you or against the same team. It's just like those are just humans being human. I think we just have to remember that. A little like just reminder is we talk about love is blind because obviously we have some

great guests who are going to talk about their experience and some of the vitriot that people say like the same people who are like talking shit about these cast members are the same people who would walk up to them in person and say I'm such a fan and ask to take a picture. I just think as a society we have to remind ourselves that our common enemy is the algorithms we've being fed. Your phone is, it's the matrix. You are tapped into a whole different universe when you're on your phone and so are your kids.

So just remember that. And that's just my soapbox. And it was a great like, we're like, well, my algorithm is showing me this. And it was that way, because we weren't speaking from a place of like, well, this, I know this and I know this. It was more like, well, this is what I'm being fed. And this is what I'm being made to believe. Anyways, that's my soapbox before we jump into love is blind.

Whatever. Wow. I needed that advice today, guys. I was getting some heat over the weekend. Oh, for what? Well, honestly, I posted some pictures. I was in Sundance and Utah was so fun. Like Sundance is going on this weekend?

No, no, no. I just was in Sundance. It's like an area. It's like 40. Yeah, it's 45 minutes away from Park City where Sundance Film Festival is, but I happened to be in Sundance. And, yeah, people were like coming from me.

People kept DM me saying, you're getting too much work done. You're ruining your face. and I was like, I was like, I literally haven't done anything. I'm actually just a little under the weather. I've dyed my hair back to my natural color and I didn't have a ton of makeup on. And I'm like, I just have a really big face and I was a little swollen. And I was wearing my hair different.

I was like, oh my God, like so many people were so mean about it. And I was like, this is my echo chamber though. It's my, I guess it's my algorithm. People were just really taking a dagger to my heart. It's like when we had a river, you know, one week old newborn at home. home not sleeping and everyone was like, Nick looks so old and tired. It's like, yeah, we're not sleeping. We have a new one. Literally. Yeah, fuck a duck. I'm like in dad mode. Yeah. But it's hard when you like go online. I mean, people can just say anything. And you're like, oh my gosh, like you

think I'm getting work done. But like I'm actually just aging and a little swollen right now. Like I'm old enough to remember like when text messaging became a thing. Like when, you know, people, I had my first cell phone in college when it was like a thing. to even have a cell phone and you were paying 10 cents per text like I'm that old and when text became really like part of like mainstream communication like when I was dating like in college like girls I knew that were like shy and like very demure would like text things like do you want to fuck like I'm like huh like you know like the disconnect with your phone it you know what I'm saying it allows people to just say whatever the fuck they want because it's like you would

say something via text, but in person face-to-face, you would never have the guts. And it's just like, everything's in short form clips. It's why I actually love what we do, because at least, you know, we are a part of the internet, but we're in long form and we provide context and things like that. So it's just like, I don't know, it's just something to remember when you're feeling rage and you're on your phone. I don't know. And Susie, you look beautiful.

I hope I can say. Yeah, you look great. Thanks, guys. This has actually pushed me to get work done because I've been wanting to. So I'm like, that's awful. I'm like, oh, okay, so if you're going to tell me I have it already, then I'm actually going to go get a facelift. What were you, so did you, did you have fun in Utah? Like, you run into any Mormons?

No, I literally did. I went to lunch at this place called Cubbies and like 50-50, like half people in Utah were like, you have to go and half people are like, it's a chain. We went and I thought it was like pretty, pretty okay, good, but we ran into Demi. She just had left the cozy earth. Mormon wives to me? Yeah. Speak about somebody perfect, flawless. No one has anything to say. Her face was literally stunning. I was like, wow. That is, it's unreal. Did you talk to her? Gorgeous. Yeah, we talked to her for a while. She was doing the cozy earth, like, in bed rot challenge. Did you see that? No, I didn't see any of it. So we just got like, she had a wonderful experience. Didn't Jesse have something to say about her doing the cozy earth? Yeah, they were, they're, the women are back and they're beefing. Demi was asked by our favorite, uh, um, lie detector operator from Real Hospice of Orange County and the Lisa Vanderpump interview.

If she thought that Jessie was a good colorist and doing extensions, and she said no. And wasn't Whitney the one that asked her the question? Yes. Yes. And then Jesse has been responding from like being inside her G-Wagon saying, I'm just chilling in my G-Wagon instead of competing for 25,000 in a bed. Okay, that's enough for being petty or whatever. Is this a preview of season three or something? They always get it rev in right before the season.

I was going to say these women just show up to work. They are hustling. Because I'm already back invested. And then you've got Michaela taking pictures at Dancing with the Stars with Whitney. Yeah. Like the competition that you've always wanted. I was like, I don't know if you're friends, if you're not, but I'm following. Yeah.

But yeah, no, Demi is coming for Jesse's business yet again. Oh my gosh. O.T. I didn't even realize that. She honestly seemed to have like a new lease on life when I saw her. She was very like, I don't know how to describe it. She was like, I feel like I've learned a lot. And like, I'm excited. Like, I'm excited to see next seasons to meet because I'm, like, curious, she just seemed like enlightened, I guess.

It just seems like from the buzz around it that she's leaning into the villain role, which, like, I think I kind of would have appreciated versus, like, I don't know, being shocked by it. Yeah. But I'm also like, will there be a new villain this season? You know what? Something she said, which, like, I appreciated. She said something like, I think I've really fought to be understood. And I think moving forward, she's going to try to understand and kind of, I don't want to say surrender, but like not fight so hard to be understood because sometimes you're just never going to be understood. It was something along those lines.

And I'm like, but the way she said, I was like, oh my gosh, I really respect that. I really liked the way she came across. And she was so lovely in person. I mean, I've always enjoyed Demi's company and having her on the show. And obviously she was caught up in some stuff in season two that, you know, the information we got, you know, some of it we didn't like. fully understand. But yeah, my experience with her in person has been nothing but positive. So I'm, I'm glad she's back on season three and excited to see how things unfold. But it'll be interesting. Well, I have got to talk about Love is Blind because there's been so many instances in this show where I am so icked out,

cringed out, cannot believe people say this in general, let alone on a television show. I think starting with Mike who said to Sparkle Megan that he can't wait to have the hottest, sexiest kids that felt weird and definitely un-pulled for. You don't even know what you try to look like, people. Don't get me started on Mike. You're calling your kids sexy. Yeah.

That is weird. That was tough. I think Sparkle Megan made the right choice. No, I think so too. Well, wait. No, the worst part for me with Mike was when he was talking about how important it is to stay in shape

and like how crazy it is that Jordan's kid has diabetes. To Sparkle Megan, And whose father passed from diabetes And she's just sitting there like, hmm. That was really messed up. Anybody who's like preaching fitness to me is like, okay, cool, bye. Also, type 1 diabetes has nothing to do with, like, your athletic or, like, physical abilities.

It's like you're literally born with it. Do you want to know who really pissed me off? What pissed you off, Mary? Take a wild guess. I'm going to say it was Nick and Annie. As, you know, it's really funny because. Because Nick and Annie's whole thing was that they were Christian. And as we saw Nick literally out of nowhere, broke up with a girl he had just told that he loved because she wasn't Christian because she had like a lot of complicated things going on with her after her mom died.

Right. And then to go and be like, yeah, I don't know if I could support my kid if they were gay. That doesn't seem like pushing forward the love of God to me as someone who is gay and whose dad's a pastor. Yeah, I was sad when Annie said that because I personally didn't hate her extensions. I know people are roasting her. But not what pissed me. I was, I was going to say, she said something very extremely, like, outdated and harmful that, like, it's shocking to even hear it because you're like, who even says that anymore?

Yeah. And you're going to go on a, you know you're being filmed for a TV show, right? Also, like, in the world as, you know, we're saying that a lot of people are being, like, radicalized by their algorithms right now. And, like, one of the things that's happening is that, like, the queer community, is facing a lot of like very, very radicalized thoughts around our existence. And it's just like kind of shitty to see that on TV. I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt and went to her Instagram page to be like,

you know what? Maybe she like said something she didn't mean and she's going to clear it up and absolutely nothing, which I think is unfortunate. Not a single thing. I mean, you can look at her comment sections and it's clear that like people aren't happy with what she said on all sides of the spectrum. Yeah. You don't hear that nowadays.

Also, maybe if she was friends with gay people, she'd have better extensions. Is what people are saying. Period. That's amazing. Also, always down for people to learn and grow and change and, like, open up to love in their heart. So, like, always. But, yeah, that's suck to see. Yeah, it would be very easy for her to acknowledge her ignorance and in insensitive comments.

But so disappointing that she hasn't addressed that. I do appreciate what you said. Somebody said something about being friends with gay people. And I'm like, honestly, like, maybe she does need a gay friend. You know what I mean? Like somebody who, I just feel like when you're kind of what Nick was saying earlier, like your algorithm just like feeds you. It's an echo chamber.

And I'm like if she has no like if she's never been around somebody, if I don't know if it's like her culture or like the way she grew up or whatever, it's like, yeah, maybe she needs to get out there and meet some people and open up her mind a little bit. Their minds. I know it was asked by Sparkle Megan to what's his name, the guy she didn't pick, a podcast guy. They actually did ask later like, what are you wearing right now? and I think that's a question every person in the pod

should ask on every date because I just think you can tell a lot by a person about how they dress themselves and men need to stop wearing in public if you want to wear in the comfort of your home khaki shorts and flip flops have some respect for yourself

like if you are I mean if a guy showed up on a date and flip flops and oh and then Jordan wearing the pink tank top what is that's disgusting like what is the pink tank top and the tiny shorts I've ever seen in my entire

life. Well, Nick's an executive watch dealer and he can't even dress himself. And then not him saying when they're in Mexico to Sparkle Megan, oh, look at all the Cartier bracelets and she's like, yeah, and he's like, let me be your Cartier dealer. Like, you don't need a Cartier dealer. You go to the

Cartier store and you buy them. Like, what kind of underground scheme, Ponzi scheme are you doing that you need like to be someone's Cartier guy? Them on their honeymoon is like literally, my favorite of the seat is like my favorite part of the season because it's always when people are like they you know they start living together and it's like oh weird oh boy yeah this is like joe the whole instance

between joe and madison madison that was wild uncomfortable like whose side are you on here because i'm on joe's side neither of them okay because this was all confusing to me he was hammered he was absolutely hammered why and she's like first just be like your shit face go home take a nap i'll talk to you in the morning it's like she was acting like he was having a manic breakdown of which she couldn't diagnose and it was this like you know he's hammered and and i agree with natalie in that sense why i'm a slightly on joe side because and i'm surprised that they showed this or maybe it was unavoidable but you saw the cameraman through the mirror right so when you're watching it the first time you see madison come in and sit on the bed and you're

just like, wake him up. Why is Joe being so defensive? But now imagine your Joe and you wake up and there's two 50 year old dudes or who doesn't matter of the gender, but like this giant cameras in your face and you're like caught off guard. It's like, you ever wake up from an afternoon nap? You'll never be more delirious than when you wake up from an afternoon nap.

And then and then add that in with being absolutely shit-faced. And so I get why he's a bit defensive. I was just wanting him to be like I'm fucking hammered I'm sorry I drank too much but the reason he didn't say that is because he's on camera and he's just like

No but also the number one thing people do when they're drunk is being like I'm not that drunk I'm fine I'm like totally good I know the people who are the most hammer are the ones who don't acknowledge it so of course that being sad he does kind of seem like a bad drunk 100% and that's why he's single

I'm team medicine and all of this yeah I was going to say also like knowing her condition because it hit me like halfway through that situation where I was like, he's obviously like blasted and he doesn't want to say it on camera. And he's like, don't say that because you keep saying like you're super drunk or whatever. And then I was like, okay, well she, maybe she has chosen this person thinking like, oh, this is somebody that will be aware and conscious and like be able to provide care for me as I possibly lose my vision. And then to see the side of him where he's so drunk on the first night that they're all together. And she's like, oh my gosh.

Like this guy's a loser. Like he can't imagine. she's like bumps into something and needs help or something and I'm like there's so much context too because he just he just called her bigger which I think is like a red flag first of all and then like at the whole event he's flirting with another man while she's like wait can you talk to me hang out with me literally he was ignoring her the entire time and then when she woke him up he was like oh are you dressed to go out like did you not see me in this the whole like time that's definitely hammered that's why he said that okay but like there's still a little bit of like she's also in a bikini top yeah like where are we going

Why is he getting this drunk? Why is he getting this drunk? Joe, I think, does have an awful personality when he's drunk. He seems like, and same with Jordan. They seem like what I am so grateful that my husband is not is a loud, annoying piece of shit drunk. And that is what Jordan and Joe are. It was like, Joe just was nagging and picking and thought it was so funny to be like, oh, how many guacamoles is that?

Your nipples are so dark. You're so your teeth smell. No. Like, and if I'm Megan, I'm annoyed as fuck with you too. And like, everyone needs to shut up. And it was interesting. I want, I'm surprised we didn't have any other further conversation about this. I'm surprised we didn't see Annie talk to Nick about it. But when she's kind of like yelling at Joe for standing too close to her or like touching her or whatever it was when he was like leaning at the bar. And she was like, get away from me. Why are you so close to me? Scoot over. You need like, yeah, that's right. Zip it. I'm surprised there wasn't a conversation with Annie talking to Nick. Nick about that of like oh let me tell you what happened at the bar because I would have loved to hear what Nick would have had to say well it's also just for context like the fact that Joe and Jordan like the first thing they got they did when they got together in a party atmosphere is it absolutely plastered you know like no chill on camera absolutely no chill they were obviously

ripping shots I think it was showing Megan like oh yeah he's younger than me yeah I really liked Jordan up until that point too because he was kind of quirky and like I just like that he was like maintaining his sense of self throughout the thing. He seemed really genuine. Yeah, he seemed genuine. I was like, oh, cool. And then that day I was like, oh, I think she's getting the heck and I think we are as well as the audience. It was a lot. This season remind me of a few things I would like to be canceled. I've already said two of them, khaki shorts on men. Flip-lops on men. Yeah. Men calling their female partners dude. Dude. Seriously.

Stop it. Okay, bro. Dude. Like she's not a, no, sweetie, honey, babe. Jordan was calling Megan, dude. Diva. Dude, hate it. It was kind of fascinating to see Anna and Blake leave.

Have we, I'm sure that's happened in previous seasons. It seemed to me, like it was a whole episode surrounded it like calling ghosting, like the episode like Ghost Town or something like that. Yeah, there was. I thought it was interesting. The one thing, we actually had a chance to catch up with Blake earlier today and asking me a few questions about why he left. And I thought it was kind of interesting. The big question I wanted to know, it's just like, I totally get that for some people,

they want to leave. Like, it's not for them. But what I don't get is like, why not just like go into the pods and this like tell the people or person you're dating that like, hey, this isn't working for me. And I don't think I can get there in a reasonable amount of time and just like face it. And we asked Blake that question and is like, why, if he had any regrets about how he left and here's how we answer that question we've had two people you and anna kind of unceremonously leave in the pods you know certainly understand like why it might be you know emotionally draining but the kind of the manner in which you and Anna left you know obviously the episode was called something like ghosting um and things like that and was even asked by Patrick if he's ever ghosted only to have

her just like not show up but I'd love to just hear from you just your mindset like your feelings of needing or wanting to leave how do that start? and just kind of walk us through kind of your internal monologue from that moment where things didn't feel right to the time in which you left and just kind of walk us through the decision process of like why you decided to do it the way you did it and not communicate with the people you were dating. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was really a couple things. I think going into the experiment, you realize we all kind of know we were signing up for in terms of a condensed timeline. It's very, very, very condensed, about nine, ten days.

And so I think all of us, including myself, you go in a little bit skeptical. But I think the benefit of being a subsequent season is you have seen this experiment work in the past. Like there's a proof of concept there. And so you, I think I went in skeptical, but you're holding on to a little bit of hope because it's worked in the past. and you go in and a few days in, you're having these fun conversations and you're forming these connections and you start to think like, okay, could this work for me? I think you kind of turn a bit more optimistic. But I could never get that clock out of the back of my head. And so I think as the days ticked by and just knowing where my connections were with Anna and Megan, it didn't

feel like I was anywhere close to a proposal. Yeah. And I think it's communicated. And it's should be communicated throughout the experiment. If you are not working towards a proposal, you shouldn't be there. Yeah. And I took that to heart. And so I think I had that in my mind and I truly thought, like, hey, this is the best thing for you to do is to remove yourself. And so I thought it was doing the right thing.

It was certainly clumsy, but not intentional at all. Yeah, yeah. Listen, there's no perfect way to do something you've never done before, especially something as unique as this experience. That being said, do you regret not just like going into the pods and just being transparent with, you know, for example, Meg, about saying, hey, I'm not getting here. We got three days left, four days left. And, you know, you seem great. But emotionally, I don't think I'm prepared to even consider an engagement. But I want you to hear that from me rather than kind of go through this

kind of emotional kind of thought process in your head without communicating that to the people you were dating. Yeah, totally fair question. I think in the moment, in hindsight, yes, and watching it back, I'm like, why not just stick around for a few hours and have that conversation? I think in the moment, I was so caught up and kind of where my head was at and where I was mentally emotionally. I think this experiment felt very therapeutic in a lot of ways. It was was, you know, you are spending all of your time thinking or talking about relationships, memories, good and bad, where you've been, where you want to go. It felt like a very intense self-reflective type of experience.

And I know people will roll their eyes and we'll be like, yeah, you're describing therapy. And I get that now. But I think in the moment, you know, there are no distractions. And so you don't have access to a phone, a computer, no access to the outside of world, you are truly spending all your time in the pods on a date, in the lounge with the guys, or kind of alone with your thoughts. And I think in those quiet times, I spent a lot of my time thinking about my dad. And that was a little bit jarring candidly. Because I think, I don't know, I think I just assumed going into this experiment, I was 32 at the time. It certainly felt old

enough to be kind of in a good spot, felt like it had been long enough for four and a half years. And so I think when that hit me, it was a little bit jarring to realize like, hey, you might not be as good as you thought you were. And so I think at that moment, mentally, emotionally, I felt a little bit checked out. And so I think when you you couple that with the timeline, it just felt like there's probably no chance of me proposing. And it just didn't feel like it was in the cards. And so I think looking back, I was very much in this selfish mindset. Like, where's my head

at mentally emotionally? I wasn't thinking through kind of the departure and how things might unfold after I left. Boom. It's fair. Nailed it. He seems like a genuine guy. Yeah. There we go.

Two dumb bitches clocking it. That was well done. I appreciate him like owning it like it was, he was kind of selfish, you know, in that moment. I wish you'd get some, you know, more honesty from other people's exits. A lot of people are talking about the final scene of episode six between Edmund and Calabria. I think Edmund's a great guy.

I think he's catching some heat because. Nick and I are on different ends of this spectrum. You think he was being manipulative? I think are we shocked that a grown man is throwing a temper tantrum? No. Temper tantrum? You don't think that's what it was? It seemed like an emotional breakdown.

Every time he breaks down, it's not giving temper tantrum. He is a very emotional person, that's for sure. But I think if it was a woman in his position who was crying after everything that they didn't agree with, they would be called manipulative. And it would be like, a hundred percent would be like, oh, my God, she's just crying because she wants him to feel bad for her. She's just crying because, and because it's a guy, we're saying like, oh, but we want men to cry and express their emotions, which we do. but I think he uses it in a way where it makes Calabria feel like she has to be like, oh wait, no, no, no,

that's not what I meant. Wait, I'm sorry, hold on, let me hold you. My handsome king, my sensitive baby. Like, she doesn't need to, she shouldn't need to do that in every single conversation where they don't see eye to eye. And it seems like he only freaked out

really like knowing that everyone else had sex. He didn't care beforehand. And then he was like, wait, everyone. And I'm the only one. Well, we did, I will say. We asked Blake what he thought about Edmund because he's getting this heat. And at least from, you know, we haven't met Edmund.

The internet hasn't met Edmund. Here's what Blake had to say about Edmund. Edmund seems to be getting a lot of heat for his emotions and crying around, especially the last scene that we got to see on episode six when they were talking about sex. What is your read on him? Do you find his emotions to be authentic or do you think it's something else? I think he is such a pure human being and I hope that comes across. he has such a good heart and what you're seeing on screen like that was that was him off screen

like in between like in the lounge and just off camera he he is such a pure human being and I hope people are being kind to him yeah it he's a good guy he really is some people are suggesting that his tears were manipulative when talking about sex what would you say to that I don't know if I would say manipulative I would say this entire I well I guess us more specifically, do you feel like the man you got to know? I mean, sure, we've all have been manipulative at times, but do you feel like knowing him that he would be the type of guy who would use his emotions to manipulate rather than just he's an emotional guy? No, I don't think so. I never experienced that or witnessed that with Edmund. I think he,

he just comes across some genuine. And any time I've had a conversation with him, whether that's in a group or one-on-one, I think that comes through. And so, no, I wouldn't say it was manipulative. I think emotions were running high in the moment and I think it probably got the best of them. And that entire day, watching it felt very stressful. So I imagine being in it was far more stressful. So that's at least Blake's point of view. For context, Calabria, like if you listen to an as Nick episodes and you hear me preaching about the difference between hookup culture and dating culture and you have to like treat them

differently, knowing that she's going into this experience, knowing that a wedding is like what a few weeks away like it doesn't matter what she's done in the past or her dating history like if this whole experience is about making new decisions for yourself and recognizing that your dating life hasn't always worked out and you want to make different decisions so i say props to her for like setting that boundary and saying like i don't need to fuck you or have sex with you to like know that i'm in love with you or know that we have sexual chemistry they can round all the bases and not go home like she doesn't need to have sex with a guy to know she wants to marry him so like I think that's awesome that she set that boundary at the same time don't you think

you could argue that it's slightly manipulative of her or at least emasculating to say she's the one who brought it up she's like how does it make you feel that all the other guys have had sex and you haven't like the way that was emasculating I think that was a genuine question because I don't think either of them being manipulative to be clear but don't you think people could take it that way no wait do you guys remember when she brought up saying I think sex means more to you than it does to me, and I want to protect your heart. I think in that moment, I was like, oh, is she kind of seeing some of what we're seeing of the audience where we're kind of like a little bit concerned with some of his behavior?

And is she like, oh, I don't know that I want to like go have sex with him because, I mean, I know I'm that way. Like if I'm having sex with somebody, I'm emotionally connected to them. So I don't know. I feel like maybe she's kind of clocking in on some of the behavior. Maybe she's trying to feel it out. You remember the DC cast when there was like the one couple where he was like, you, you just slept with your boyfriend, like three weeks ago or whatever.

Like that's what this reminded me of where it was like her being like, that was a random person like a year ago and then being like, but that meant something and you don't care about me and her being like, this is the end of the conversation because like you're taking things you just found out and I'm making it into something. And he did not care at all until she said every couple had had sex. He didn't care. He knew that he knew that some of the guys had had sex.

He only thought that aunt on. That's not on her. I'm not saying it's on her. I'm just saying that doesn't mean. that he was then manipulative. He started crying. I also just think we have to like give all these people grace for this crazy experience they're all in and how do they navigate this.

This is the first night that they've ever seen each other in person and spending the night with each other and they didn't have sex. And now he's being like throwing like you don't care about me or whatever he said like in her face being like well all the other guys did and like what does that say about us? I just have a hard time believing that his word. that he was consciously crying and that was fake in an effort to like essentially gaslight her into feeling, let me ask you all women a question.

If a guy started crying in an effort to get laid, would that work? No. I see where you're going with this. I think there's a world in which when he starts crying, then you start comforting, then you get a little bit deeper. Then there's that emotional level that you kind of go past and then you start kissing.

And then yeah, I think it could turn into sex. 100% because you've like crossed this emotional barrier of like you're there for this person. But the thing about him is he cries constantly. He cries about stuff that like. And you think it's a tactic he is consciously using to get his way? I don't know. I don't know him very well. But what I have seen of him as after that conversation, I don't think there was a world in which tears was a response. And I think because the conversation was around sex, it felt manipulative to me. thought it was interesting to compare that scene to the one that they had had prior in on vacation

when she was talking about like oh like if we were at a bar and you saw this guy like touch me like what would your response me that was very interesting he basically was like I don't want conflict yeah but then it's like nothing you wouldn't just say yeah he would do he said if it wasn't a hug be respectful to my lady yeah he could he could ask nicely yeah and I don't quite I haven't completely figured out how I feel about Edmund yet because he kind of, there's parts of him like his quirkiness that I'm charmed by

and reminds me of a very close friend of mine. But yeah, it was that comment and then also that in tandem with the way he reacted about sex and started crying. It just felt a little like there's something happening here and I don't quite know

if you're the man for her. I also couldn't, wouldn't be surprised the way it was cut together, you know, sometimes these like intense conversations with intense topics really require the nuance in the context. And for a guy who comes across is very like emotionally loose and kind of eccentric, I think it could be very easily his behavior taken out of context. I just don't understand the jump from, okay, everyone else is having sex to like, I'm too fucking nice. This is what happens. Well, that's what I mean by editing. To me, that made no sense how it jumped.

from that and to me like I feel like we're missing a big chunk of that conversation because it does look like it's that's what makes it more so manipulative is the fact that it's like all of a sudden we're going into this whole like bigger issue that you have with yourself that like this is something that constantly happens to you while she's sitting here being like yeah I don't need to have sex with you tomorrow but we're going to spend the rest of our lives together so I can't say for sure because obviously I wasn't there when it was edited but I would bet a lot of money we're missing a few sentences or maybe 10 minutes of what was probably like a 45 minute conversation

slammed together for like heightened emotional moments and we're all like drastically reading into it. I don't know. It's just like he's clearly had some emotional trauma as a young child and like I don't know. Again, this is like this whole show and this whole experience for these people

is an emotional pressure cooker. Some handle it better than others. I'm just a little reluctant to like jump to conclusions to, like, suggest that he's some side of gaslighter who uses tears. I'm not labeling him as anything. I'm saying that from what I watched there with editing, content, all that stuff, but from what the producers and the editors and love is blind company gave me to watch, I saw a man who was manipulating a woman. That's all I think. Maybe you can disagree, but that's what I think. I guess it could turn into that, but I find, I would think that most

women would get the ick from a man crying and most men aren't getting laid after i think because he cries all the time she definitely is not gonna it wouldn't get him laid and i think if there was a valid reason for him to have gotten upset then i think it could have brought them closer and could have like unlocked a new level of vulnerability which then could have led to some like who do we think is going to make it honestly i don't i don't know of anyone i don't i don't know i don't know i I really don't know. Still really like Jordan. Yeah.

There's going to be one couple that gets married. I mean, we watch the preview for the next batch where Anton and Allie are together. And he's like, is this like what you think? Like, is this what your days off look like or your working days look like with clothes everywhere and makeup everywhere? And she's like, yeah. She's a slob. She's like, yeah, it is. She said that from the jump, though.

So he has no one to get mad up but himself. She's like, I'm a messy. Do you think she's more of a slob or he's more of an OCD guy? She said from the jump that she goes, I'm messy and you might have to pick up after me. What else did she say about... There's a difference between a messy person and a disgusting person. What else did she say about, like, him afford him being able to pay for... I feel like, yeah, we're going to get...

I think there's some goodness coming into the next batch, for sure. And it's always fun when they all see, like, the other people they almost chose or like, you know... Yeah. That's my favorite episode. Or it's just like, oh, if there was even a tiny crack in the foundation, let alone gaping hole. it's going to crack open on this night. The biggest, I think, controversy was the breakup between Patrick and Casey. And we have them both for a little he said, she said.

But before we jump to them, I'm just curious you guys' opinions about the situation. What do we think? We obviously have already talked to Patrick and Casey without giving too much away. What is your take on each person? I mean, my take in the name of Taylor Swift is it's a story that we know all too well. I get it. Taylor talked about it in the D.C. season, like, I'm half Asian, half white. I know that reality of where, like, there is a stigma or that Asian people face where it's, like, the second you know they're Asian, like, they're not seen as attractive.

And I think he said it on camera. Anna admitted it to. And, like, Casey assured him that she doesn't care. And maybe she doesn't care. We don't really know. But then I can see his reaction where then he finds out. she kind of did like a double-sided in the show in the episodes of like

I'm just not obsessed with him. Justin, I'm curious is obviously who's someone who is Asian and feels this stereotype in reality. Right after they got engaged, no, right before the reveal, they were interviewing Casey.

I don't know if you clocked this and maybe I'm reading into it. But she goes, she's like, I know he's Asian. And then she like grimaced. Like as someone, she was like, I know he's, Asian. Like, did you, or am I reading into it or did you, did you feel that from her? And were you surprised by how she handled things? I mean, I don't want to label her, but I do think, and I'll

be clear too, like I'm half white, so I think I privilege a little bit differently from people that are fully Asian. But I think she wanted to tell herself that she was into Asian people. And she did say, like, you know, my brother is dating an Asian girl or like this and that. And I think, so I think she wants to reassure herself and I don't think she's intentionally trying to, like, discriminate. But I mean, you see things like that. And she literally said, like, he deserves someone that's obsessed with him and that's not me. And they didn't really talk outside of literally seeing each other for the first time. Yeah, it was interesting when Patrick revealed his ethnicity. It wasn't like, oh, cool. You know, it was like, oh. And it was just so weird.

Like, you could tell he was hesitant. And like, if someone is like being like, especially on this show, But, like, even in general, if you're like, oh, asking someone to talk about their trauma and they're hesitant in any sort of way, I would always be like, you know what? At your comfort level. Yeah. Like, we don't need to get into it. We don't need. Like, it's fine. I'm here for you whenever you're ready.

Like, don't rush it. She's like, I need to know. Give it to me. Lay it out on the line. All right. Well, you've waited long enough for Patrick and Casey. So they are up next little he said. She said action.

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Dot paca apparel.com slash V-I-A-L and use our code V-I-A-L. That's go. Dot P-A-A-L-A-L, and enter code V-I-A-L. Patrick, welcome to the show. Nick, that's up. Thanks for having me. How you doing, man? I feel like I haven't asked this question a while, but how is your heart?

Oh, I mean, right now? Or when it happened? Well, both. Let's take, well, first of all, how are you doing right now? I mean, we know as someone, you know, who's been on reality TV, there's filming it that's just chaotic. It's very stressful. Obviously, then it's released. I'm sure you guys filmed this probably, you know, over a year ago, but watching it back can be kind of traumatizing and brings you back to that moment. I'd love to hear about how you're doing emotionally right now after watching it back. But then certainly let's get back to that time. we'll want to know some of those details of how that all went down with you and Casey. Gotcha, yeah. Right now I'm feeling pretty decent. I mean, it's been a few days since it came out. I've had a lot of love and support from friends and family and the internet. The internet

has been, for the most part, pretty kind to me, which I'm just like pretty happy about. I'm pretty stoked about a lot of people resonate with my story and they've been telling me me that they just are like proud of me and like they felt or feel the same way and uh i'm just i'm happy that uh it's having a good uh reception well that's great to hear i personally really enjoyed watching you um you know it's um it's tough to be yourself on these types of shows there's certainly a lot of pressure in these weird and controlled environments and you know for me it felt like you really you know were your authentic self i really appreciate your vulnerability kind of opening up about the things that you struggle with when it comes to dating and things like that but

But, um, so it's really been fun to watch. But, you know, you obviously had some tough luck. Both Anna, you're, you know, a strong connection you had. I thought that was a really, you know, cute relationship. And then all of a sudden she ghosted and pieced out. And then Casey, that was this whole, well, cluster fuck, um, after you got engaged. And then she pieced out. But I guess let's start with Anna.

How surprised were, I mean, obviously you were surprised, but do you feel like you have a better understanding of why she left and chose the way you did? And do you hold any frustrations towards Anna about not necessarily her decision to leave? Because I'm sure it's understandable that this environment's not for everyone, but the manner in which she left, was that very frustrating the way she went about it? Yeah, I think like for me, one of the biggest things for me I look for in our relationship is resilience. So when she's billing, especially because it's a high pressure, hyper-accelerated situation, it's that part is just a turn off as far as like like i know the pressure is really high but i you know i would like for you to

like try to fight through that if you really care about somebody so that part was a little bit of a turn off but that's how i felt about that okay was it as hard for you to watch back the phone sex scene as it was for us all to watch it for the first time oh man uh i think that part thinking back on it i didn't i didn't really know what casey was trying to do yeah until I watched it and I just kind of realized like, oh, I see. She was reeling me back in and. Are you picked up on that too? Yeah, I picked after watching it.

I mean, at the time, I'm, we're like knee deep in this thing. Like, I'm not thinking much about intentions. I'm just thinking like trust in this girl. We already had a conversation about trust. We both told each other our deepest insecurity. So we're like bonding at this point. And I'm just like, oh, I cool. I'm like down to hang out in person and see where it goes.

so it wasn't like it wasn't as cringy for me just because like our relationship was actually like more genuine than it seems that it came out to be i know there's a lot of scenes that are like oh gosh this is super cringy like oh man they're not having the same chemistry as Anna but her and i had had a lot of chemistry too so it's it doesn't make me as cringe as i think a lot of years well it's also always important to note that i think the audience forgets right when we're watching it, we see both your faces. And then so because of that, we can judge, you know, the audience projects their opinion on what they think of each couple, right? Well, you guys don't get to see each other. And, you know, obviously, there's so many conversations you guys are having

that we don't get to see. Speaking to that, you know, obviously you mentioned that the kind of the phone sex scene seemed to be a reaction from her feeling like she upset you talking about her ex-boyfriend. And I thought that was a little confusing, and obviously we know that things are edited or maybe lost in context. But can you walk us through just how she went about actually telling you? Because it really, you know, she referred to this person as her ex, but it really seemed clear that this person was very much in the picture. And I was confused because like her big thing was, I don't want to talk to him at all. And you seemed a little uncomfortable with that response from her because I'm thinking, well, if this person, person was in your life at all. If we are going to get engaged, not that I want you talking to them, but like, I want you, this person's going to reach out to you. Like, they're obviously waiting for you to get out of the pods. And when they reach out, I want you to like set a boundary with this person and make it clear where you stand. And she kind of acted like she, she was even too afraid to like face the guy. Yeah, that's a great question. I'm glad you, I'm glad you're reading

the situation really well. Um, so this is probably a few days after. Anna left. So it's just Casey and I, and we don't, we don't have anyone else here. It's her and I were slightly trauma bonding. We're having really good conversations. And I'm basically just grilling her. I'm just, I'm asking her to see if she like really wants to get married. And she's like, I do. You know, I, these quote on quote, fuck boys have been breaking my heart. And Patrick, you seem like a genuine guy who's going to take care of my heart. You seem like a genuine guy who's going to take me to the nuggets games, take me travel and stuff like that. And I want to you. She's like, you just need to trust me. There's that, I don't know if there's a scene where she

tells me that. And I'm like, how can I go into this in a distrustful perspective? So I was like, I trust you. Yeah. I was like, if you want to do this, then you got to take care of what you got to take care of when we get back to Denver. I'm going to trust you to do that because I'm not, I'm not going to tell you to do anything. I don't control you. I don't control that. But I hope that you do the right thing. And if you do, I'm, I'm really happy because that would be awesome. we're building a trustful relationship because you got to go into a relationship with trust if you're not like what are you doing right yeah they did they did air that part and I actually clocked it because I thought it I said some to my wife Natalie it was like I think

it's weird when someone says you need to trust me is it's almost like a demand as opposed to like a request of like you know trust is earned but she was just like demanding your trust which was just like a weird way to deliver it you need to trust me is a lot different than you can trust me yeah that's a really good point Also, you were pretty hesitant to, I mean, and understandably so, because this is the complete point of the entire show, but to like tell her where your parents are from. And you could really see that hesitation and you could really see that she felt the hesitation and yet she still wanted to like push and get you to say it. Do you regret saying that? No.

See, the thing about that scene that is a little out of context is because she's giving me her insecurities. And I'm giving my insecurities back. Okay. And it's just kind of painting it to where it's like I'm just being insecure. But in reality, we're sharing a lot of emotional info. Gotcha. Okay. I don't regret it because like for me, I went in the show and I wanted to eliminate all factors.

But then it got to a point where it's like my, if I'm going to ask somebody to marry me, they're going to have to know my cultural background. in order for me to build a deeper connection because, like, my mom's from Cambodia. My whole family's from Cambodia. So it's meeting my parents would be a cultural shock. So I'm like, I don't think it's fair to like ask somebody to marry if they don't know at least somewhat of my background. So that's how I felt about that. Gotcha. So let's get to the engagement portion of it and how that all went down.

Obviously, the reveal is always like wonderfully awkward for the audience. and so it's like this weird moment. But at the time, given that there's always nerves, it really seemed like, I mean, we've certainly, but I guess my point is we've seen more awkward reactions and where you be like, I don't know, this person is not into this other person. But I honestly didn't really pick up on that

when you and Casey met. But again, from your perspective, especially now as you think back, that first reveal where you guys first made each other face to face, was there anything that, that you now look back and picked up on that might have like giving you any like clues that she was starting to get hesitant or was questioning how she felt about you? Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest clue and I'm glad they showed it was be walking back

into my my little abode and I'm looking back and she's just not even there. And that was the one that kind of triggered the red flagged me like, okay, maybe we need to slow this down, but like you said, we're like really caring about each other. I mean, outside of the physical stuff, we're really caring about each other emotionally. So it's like, we're hugging each other and we're just like, nah, I can't believe I'm seeing you for the first time. And like, I think a lot of adrenaline is just pumping and we're excited. And they're still a bond there. So it's like, I'm sure she was probably just overwhelmed with a ton of emotions. But at the same time, I'm sure she was like, okay, he's not necessarily like my type. So this is like, a lot because I care about him but yeah was was watching it back the first time you heard that she told producers that she was not attracted to you or did she tell you maybe once you got back to Denver or did she tell you at any point that that conversation was had I love that question uh no I literally did not know that there was background footage until about a month ago what happened a month ago yeah were you giving a heads up oh yeah they just gave me heads up

but like I mean that's a year and a half later which is crazy to me well speaking of the breakup yeah I mean it was I mean what is your opinion having watched that scene because it was just like you know I've said this many times you know I'm a fan of the show but love is not blind for me man I could never go on this show like you know physical I'm not going to pretend that physical type isn't super important to me and like if if I was on that show and they revealed something someone, like, I would be like, all right, see you later. And it would just, honestly, I would have appreciated Casey a lot more if she would have just owned it and just said, hey, listen, like, I joined this experiment, hoping that I could see past physical. I've had problems

with leading with that. But turns out, no, I'm, you know, I'm more superficial or, or just, like, I care about physical attraction. Sue me. But, like, it was this really hard to watch her lying to you right like constantly saying i love you i love you and i felt for you in that moment because like it's really you know you're trying to trust you're a you're trying to trust someone you care about this person you're trying to give her the benefit of the doubt and you're just asking for her honesty and then every time you're asking she throws in this i love you and for all the people who misuse the phrase love bombing this seemed to be your typical love bombing which is Using the word I love you is a way to like manipulate the situation and, you know, give someone a false sense of confidence. In her case, it was she didn't want to look bad. She didn't want to have you think that, you know, I don't know what she honestly wanted. Well, I'm looking forward to hearing for her perspective, but you must have been pretty angry watching it back. For sure. I agree with you. It's like if you're, if I'm not physically attracted to you, it's like so much.

much easier to just tell me rather than like string it on. And I think a lot of people, a lot of people are pretty truthful and honest. A lot of people would have done the same thing like you would do. Nick, you wouldn't do the show and openly admit you wouldn't do the show. Like it's, it's okay to like say that, hey, I just try the experiment. I wanted to see where it was going to go. It doesn't work for me. Like that, that would be like way more honorable. Like for her, I, it's weird because like I have to give her a little bit of grace just because like we're we do like I'm really certain we like pretty much we do care about each other and she's like trying not to break my heart because she cares I think she really cares but she can't like come to the conclusion that like this is not

going to work out she can't she can't tell me and it's so hard for her to tell me so I think it's just a lot of whatever she's dealing with and yeah well it was tough because we were watching with Nick's father, my father-in-law, and the scene, you know, obviously we watch her say to the producers, like, whatever she says, and then goes back to the two of you where you are asking her, like, do you just don't, if you don't want to go to Baja, like, that's fine, we'll just go back. And Nick's dad was like, he's just, wow, he's really just not picking up what she's putting down. Like, he's just not getting it.

And Nick was like, no, she's lying to him. Like, she's not telling him the truth. And so that's why you were like, oh, we'll just go back to Denver. It's fine. She said several times, like, I just don't want to do the show. It's about the show. Because again, again, the audience, we casually watch it. And my dad was kind of taking for granted that they're cutting back to scenes of Casey talking

to producers. And like in our subconscious brain, we think that you're, you also have the benefit of seeing that, Patrick. And, you know, knowing how this shit out comes together. Like my heart went out to you. I really want to know from Casey because, like, listen, I get it. Like, it's tough. It is tough to deliver bad news to someone,

but I'd be willing to bet that Casey has dated men that have been just as dishonest and not as truthful about their feelings towards her. And I bet she got really mad at them for not just being up front and honest. And I'm wondering if she, you know, if she would want someone to treat her

the same way she treated you, Patrick. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's for her to answer. But yeah, I mean, I'm glad you read the situation. Well, Nick, I mean, you hit it spot on. I think she just, she just didn't handle it the right way. And, yeah.

Have you spoken to Casey since? I know, and I guess you'll have to see the teaser next week as far as what actually happened afterwards. You haven't seen her in person since filming, period? No, I did see her. I saw her right when I got back. Not in person, though. Or not one-on-one, I'm sorry.

I asked for a conversation. I asked for a one-on-one thing. There was a lot of pressure because a lot of the cast members were already back that they wanted to hang out. They wanted to see us. They missed us. And we literally just got back. And I was just like, hey, let's have a conversation before we see everyone.

And she was like, I need time. I need time. What's up? What did she say when you requested that? She just said that she needed time. She wouldn't even give you the face-to-face. not even a phone call man so but you'll see

I mean hopefully this is like I'm explaining it better here because I think I'm pretty upset next in the next batch of episodes when I explain it but yeah I didn't I didn't get a face-to-face conversation or a phone call I even requested just for a phone call I just told her I was like let's just be friends

like let's just like let's talk it out like well I asked her like what is it about me that's like not made you not want to go to Mexico out. And she just gave me the, hey, I need more time. I need more time. And I was like, it's fine. I was like, can we just have a conversation? A phone call, please. Because like, and again, correct me if I'm wrong. When she broke up with you and she's like jumping into your arms like it's The Bachelor show, you must have thought there was a legitimate possibility that you guys would get back to Denver and just like, you know, grab a cup of coffee. Maybe just like you said,

casually be friends and at least be open to like exploring a connection outside of a TV show, the pressures of any artificial timelines, but clearly, like, that you found out the hard way that that was not true. Yeah, but I mean, it's all good. I think it, I think it helped me in the long run because it made me really do like deep inner work as far as how I'm approaching relationships and what I will tolerate what I, I'd accept. So I just went on like a really deep healing journey after that, after I had the closure in my mind. that this is just the ring around so who are you rooting for out of the couples that we have in uh mexico right now all of them oh that's nice you have any favorites

i love the boys shout out to the boys if i can well let me ask you yes before we let you go is there i'm sure you followed other online commentary in people's opinions and the internet can certainly you know jump to conclusions of the all of all the friends that you have on the show Is there any kind of like theme or criticism that any one of your cast members are getting that you find to be inaccurate or untrue that you would want to maybe just come to their defense? Yeah, I'm trying to keep up with some of it. I don't want too many people to hate on Anna. She gave me the respect of like having a conversation or at least reaching out to me saying like, hey, do you want to talk? Hey, do you want to get coffee?

can we meet up. So at least for her, I can, I can respect how she handled the ghosting and stuff like that. Do you think it upset Anna when, I'm not sure who, maybe it was Mike who said it, but said something about like, yeah, well, you don't want to be fucking your sister or your twin or something saying. Oh, yeah. Like, do you think, do you remember what I'm talking about? Yeah, I do remember that scene, yeah. Do you feel like maybe that would have upset Anna? Did you all have a conversation about that at all? I wasn't the one that said it. No, no, no. I know. But just like, yeah, I feel like it was Mike or somebody, but just, I mean, I'm sure like it, you, you were part of the conversation. So I don't know if like her being like, hey, what the fuck, Mike.

Oh, yeah. I think I'm not, I'm not sure what she's, I'm not sure what she's dealing with right now. I'd have to have some conversations before I even really know how she felt about the show and stuff like that. Gotcha. Okay. Anything, anything you want to leave us with Patrick before we let you go. Yeah, I just hope the story resonated with a lot of people that have struggled with, like, minor identity crisis. I hope it's inspiring for people to be vulnerable regardless of their insecurities or whatever.

So I just hope that it touched the right people, even though maybe they didn't paint things out in a certain way. But if we get a chance to talk to Casey, is there any question you would like us to ask her? I'm good. You guys can, you guys can figure that one out. All right. All right.

Well, take care, buddy. Right on. Thank you. All right. All right. Well, we heard from Patrick. Up next is Casey. Casey, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you for having me. Well, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you taking the time. You obviously made some waves this season with your appearance on love is blind and more specifically around your exit around Patrick. And, you know, certainly like we love these shows. We love watching it.

We know that reactions can be. divisive. But, you know, as someone who was caught up in drama, we always want to give people like you an opportunity to just, you know, explain your side of things. We certainly know there's a lot of pressure that goes into these environments and there's, you know, sometimes hindsight's 20-20. For example, like we just talked to Blake and he was like, you know, like after looking back, I would have done it this way. I might have done it differently. So we're looking forward to hearing your point of view about the situation. But just for starters, I'm just curious, you know, watching it back, I guess do you have any regrets about how you win about your experience

as a whole on Love is Blind? Well, watching it back, I have a lot of regrets. It looks like I have one brain cell going most of the time, but I don't think I would take back how I handled things with Patrick in the end. I wear my heart on my sleeve. That's how I felt at the time. it's a crazy experience and no I don't regret it like a lot of people are like why didn't you just go to Baja I think that probably would have been the worst thing I could have done for us I think it makes a lot of sense that if you realize that you weren't feeling it to just end it I definitely think that's you know might be feel harsh in the moment but the kind thing you're doing the long run I think we're like I guess just to be honest and again we know

this is a TV show but I just want to like as a viewer I'm a fan so I'm just giving you the fan perspective. I know. It just was like why, you know, I've said this a million times. I love this show. I would never do this fucking show. Because like love is not blind for me. I mean, you've seen my wife. She's stunning. She's beautiful. And like, well, she has many of great qualities. Like, it's not blind for me. And so I think that's okay for people to say. I know there's a lot of pressure, you know, on, on you guys as cast members. But like when you broke up with them, it was tough to watch you constantly tell Patrick you love him when you obviously had the back and forth with producers and it was this clear that you were you were out like you knew that he wasn't

your guy you knew that you weren't going to date him and I understand if maybe you wanted to soften the blow but it was clearly confusing for Patrick and do you at least regret constantly saying I love you I love you I love you while you were breaking up with him in that moment you know in the moment I did think I loved him and I do regret how I would out that way was probably, it was gaslighting or leading him on. But when I talked to producers, I mean, yeah, it's a, it's a show. Like, I didn't fully know what was that conversation when it's actually going to be played. I would never want to like, I didn't want to like play into his insecurities. The whole conversation was about, you know, what he looked like. And I,

I felt horrible. Like, I thought I fell in love with this guy. As far as the goodbye goes, you're surrounded by a ton of producers and cameras and people you don't know. And when he showed up in that moment, I did feel, like, frick, am I, like, making a huge mistake here? Should I stay? I felt comforted by him because he was kind of this one person that I thought I really knew. And I did have intentions of, like, trying to date him when I got back to Denver. As far as, like, being on camera and doing it, we're talking about marriage. Like, we're talking about a huge thing. And at the time, I didn't know if for marriage, if my attraction could grow that much. But maybe you come back to Denver, like, see how it goes. Unfortunately, that ended like pretty quickly

when we got back. So. Okay. We had a chance to talk with Patrick. And he mentioned that when he got back, he tried to reach out to you. He wanted to talk with you. He was even open to something as simple as a phone call. But I guess you were just unwilling to even do that. So I'm just curious from your perspective like why didn't you at least give him the benefit of a conversation or or even a cup of coffee or just like again like totally i mean again i get it like you weren't into the guy that there's people are allowed to break up with people i think that's totally fair but yeah i just like what do you mean by you're open to dating him because i guess from him perspective i think he would be surprised to hear that yeah what's like super great about today is there's receipts and

And that's actually not how it went down. He did not reach out to me. I reached out to him. We got back on like a Friday and he wanted to have a phone call or meet up immediately. And I was just like, listen, I'm so emotional right now. I just got home. It's not going to be like the outcome you want. Like obviously I'm very emotional person.

Look at me. Like my emotions were all over the place. I was like, let's just give it to like Monday or Tuesday. like I want to talk to you. I'm so glad I had this experience with you. Him claiming like he reached out and stuff, that's just not true. And then I heard he went to the group event and said it would have been Anna. And then I was like, this is not my love story. Like, I'm kind of glad I did what I did because watching it, like, you don't really even see us like falling in love, which was kind of sad because I kind of want to like, you know, you kind of want to see. that part all I all you see is like I'm good at mini hoop but like it I just watched and I was like oh my gosh like I had no idea he had this like what seemed to be a different real love connection with Anna I mean I thought we were just us pretty much till the end and then yeah but like I wanted to meet up with him so you would you're saying that you wanted to meet up in person he didn't want to

No, he at first did want to, but then he text me respectfully just wants to be friends. Because you said, wait until Monday or Tuesday, I need some time. Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. We unfortunately, like when we all got back, our group, like, we actually all were pretty close for a while when we all got back. And we all were going to hang out and went out to Denver. And I saw him there.

I was like, I'll see you tonight. And then we can talk, you know, Monday or Tuesday. but let's just try to, like, regroup, you know, go see people who know what we went through and we'll talk about it, you know, at a later time. And what was that night like? It was not great. Like, he came up to me. First thing he said, like, hey, XYC.

And I was like, oh. Coming out strong. And he was very hurt. Like, I could see, like, we're both just very hurt. I feel horrible. Like, I wanted to find left. too. He wanted to find love. It was not a good night. I ended up leaving. I was just like, I'm just going to let them do their thing. I'm going to go home. I followed up with him on

Sunday. How are you doing? I did not ghost him. I did not respond to the last text because at that point, it just felt like something else was going on. And turns out it was. What else was going on? Yeah, what else was going on? I guess watching it was just like, oh, I was like second choice. Yeah, I can see why you might feel that way. The experiment didn't work for me. Yeah. I found out, actually, I guess love isn't blind. And, like, attraction matters to me more than I thought.

Can I ask a nosy question? I know you mentioned there was, like, a guy you were dating before the show, and he was a TikToker. Like, are you not allowed to name drop or, like, give us a little tea? Did you guys rekindle? No, we didn't. That's, like, another thing. I'm not going to name drop him because we don't need to give him more airtime here. but um does he have a big following um i wouldn't say it's like

okay he thinks he was i don't know yeah but no i didn't that's another thing is everybody's like you got a boyfriend on i didn't like at all i will say i was a little confused and i said this to patrick because and again maybe this is just editing who knows but like it seemed clear that whether he was your boyfriend your ex-boyfriend that in some way you were still in communication with him, which is like from Patrick's point of view, it like it made sense why like he would be uncomfortable hearing that. And it seemed like you were trying to put his mind at ease. But honestly, like it kind of came across as like, why wouldn't you like let's say you ended up together with Patrick and love was blind and

you guys, you know, you got back to the real world and you're still together. Why wouldn't you want to reach out to this person who clearly seem to be waiting for you, so to speak, to just to say, hey, I found love, like we're done and, you know, goodbye, uh, as opposed to you kind of adamily being like, I don't want to, like, I don't want to talk to him. I don't need to like communicate anything to him. What, what did you mean by that or why did you choose to go about it that way? Yeah. I mean, watching it all gives me the heck too, but it's, I just didn't feel like I needed to fully talk to him again after all that. Um, the weird part about it is, you don't find out you're on this show till a week before you're going. So you are still living

your life of like, I'm dating or I'm talking to people, but like, am I going to cut everything off that I'm doing in my real life for a maybe I'm going to go on this show? Yeah, I guess to say like there was communication with him before after I didn't feel like if I found love, like he's probably going to find out some way or see it. What was the dating show that he was wanted you to go on. There was another dating show that, well, there was like married at first sight, which you looked me out. My experience just went, thank God. This one at least gave you the opportunity to say, no, I'm good. Thank goodness. And then there was another one. Gosh, I think it was called like international love. I don't even think it ever went down. That show exists.

It does. Is it the one with the soccer players? Oh, that was good. You should have done it. Is that peacock? It's a real thing. Yeah, it's on peacock. Oh, yeah. No, it was that show. Oh, my goodness. What was going through your head during the phone sex moment?

Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, before you answer that question, I want to ask it because, like, Patrick alluded to this. I think, you know, for some people watching it and Patrick as well, he seemed to take it as watching it back where, like, it followed the conversation about the ex-boyfriend and he suggested that um and you know and i think for a lot of people watching it they thought the same thing that you were kind of using sex as a way to like ease his mind or kind of bring him back into the fold after he was a bit triggered by the conversation about the ex right yeah if i could take like anything back in my life it would be episode four um okay fair enough um like my family's freaking Mormon and my my mom works a cute little

mall job on the weekends and they're like we saw your daughter like uh-oh um so it's pretty embarrassing i don't know how that was clipped to just like being honest um maybe i was trying to ease his mind you're also in a pod for like 10 days you're lonely um you're drinking yeah you're horny you're tired um you think you're like falling love with this partner which like hey sex is a big deal and a relationship so yeah maybe i like jump the gun on that i don't know if it was like a way of getting him or keeping him it was just kind of how i was feeling at the time um there's a whole sex slash passion day so like it's talked about a lot unfortunately mine just got freaking air. Yeah. Well, you and Nick, he seems to be kind of a freak. Oh, yeah. And Nick, I heard

like, yeah, the carpet hangar. Yeah. But yeah, unfortunately, I will forever live on Netflix, too. Yeah. I've said worse. My parents have had to endure worse. You'll be fine. Do you regret throwing some shade towards Chelsea from a few seasons ago with the Megan Fox? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not really quite sure how to react to that one. I think I was just trying to be funny and it, you know, it came off like. In her defense, I've met her in person and I got to say, I see it. I see it too. You believe it more than you believe Nick saying he's the wish, Zach Efron.

Well, and just knowing when you meet people, people always like to like match you with a celebrity crush. And if like, I believe that people have told her, I told her that after meeting in person. Like, you absolutely see it. No, yeah. I'm sure. I had, I actually never even watched that season because when we were going through casting, that season was going on. And it was just a little, like, traumatizing.

I don't know for some reason to watch, but everybody was talking about it. Yeah. Hey, at least they're talking about her. I wasn't saying, like, yeah, it was just a bad, bad joke. I'm not always, you know, my jokes don't always land properly. Sure now. Anyone else have any questions for Casey before we let her go? I think you pretty much covered it.

Yeah. Anything you want to leave us with Casey before we let you go? I mean, yeah, it's the craziest thing right now. And I think in the end, I was truly, I didn't handle it the best way I could have. I mean, you just don't really know how I handle these things. And it's really hard for me to watch that Patrick thinks it's like because he's ugly or something. Like, I keep seeing that everywhere. And it's sad for me.

I was really trying to spare his feelings and his insecurities. And I did care about this person. And now, you know, I'm the most hated thing right now, and that's fine. But, you know, I think it's just, would I do this again? Probably not. I thought it was going to be a great, like, experiment for me and change my mindset on some things. and it just all went, blew up in my face a little.

Casey, I really appreciate you taking the time. Best of luck going forward. Stay off the internet. It's all temporary. I promise you. It's not real. It doesn't change your life unless you let it change it.

So best of luck. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I love your guys as show. I try to take your guys advice too, but, you know. Stay offline. You'll be fine.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye. Built is a rewards program built for renters who want to get more out of where they live, whether that's through travel, dining, or neighborhood perks, perfect for anyone who's paying rent and wants to turn their largest monthly expense into opportunities for experiences. Built helps to earn points at home in the city and beyond.

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I mean... I understand her saying like she didn't know that they would air her talking to producers. But you still say it. But then also her telling Patrick, like the producers are trying to make it seem like it's about appearance and that I'm not attracted to you. And it's like, but that is what you said.

I appreciated her acknowledging that she came across as a little gaslighty. I appreciate her acknowledging that love isn't blind for her. I wish that she would have owned being a little, that misrepresenting her feelings towards. Patrick a little bit more than she did. Because, like, to say that I was in love with him then, I get, again, I get she was probably no doubt very confused, but like, you knew you didn't want to be with him and just she could have told him that.

But also people like, chill the fuck out online. Like, you know, like all of you have done some version. You've all been Patrick. You've all been Casey. So maybe just chill the fuck out for all the people are up there saying crazy shit online. Yep. And like you're asking somebody in a course of what? 10 days to spend the rest of their life with someone.

Like, it's okay to decide that maybe this wasn't the best decision. Like, if I were on that show and that wall came up and they weren't, I wasn't attracted to them, I'd been like, no, absolutely not. Yeah, I was going to say, honestly, like, Nick, at least you have the awareness to be like, I would never do the show. But for me watching it, I was like, I wish I could be there. And I know producers aren't supposed to, like, I mean, they start the pot. But I'm like, I wish I could have been a producer and been like, give it a shot.

Like, you fell in love with this person in the pod. And, like, every single person that comes off this show says the first interaction is not, like, there's not chemistry. It's weird. You're placing a voice to a body. Even if that person is attractive, you're not finding them attractive most of the time. So I wish that she had just, like, kind of given it a shot. And maybe that could have grown. I hear what you're saying.

But, like, every season, it starts with, you know, Nick and Vanessa walk in and greet the people. And Nick, it's always Nick asking, is love blind? Like, the show is based off the question. if it is it's not we we found a bunch of people who are 100% convinced looks don't matter than them so we're testing it out that's not how it's framed it's framed is if it is they're all asking themselves if they can get there so i don't think there's anything wrong with one or two people being like yeah absolutely not uh can't do it you know not for me i just wish she would just been more a little bit more upfront and honest i agree i would i would say yeah if she's going to

exit I would say don't blame it on like a I can't do it because the TV show I would just be like own this and I think her not trying to make it about his looks made it worse because it's like you're hiding it so it's like you could she could just say I fell in love with your heart but like physically I know I can't get there with you and it's nothing to do with your ethnicity or whatever it's just that I'm not physically interested interested in that would have been like a great way to say yeah exactly well I mean obviously like in she's when we interviewed her she she recognizes the heat she's getting and she seems to be like owning it And I think it all came down to her just not wanting to look bad in the moment and trying to figure out the best way to say something, knowing that, like, there was no easy out. It's also what you say, Nick, too, where it's like, you have to be okay with being the villain in someone's story. And it's just like you trying to pretend to like care for his, not pretend to care for his feelings, but like trying to protect his feelings instead of just being honest, made you look worse because it all seems performative. Yeah. Where it's like, I'd rather you just be like, hey. And the easiest cop out for this whole situation is, hey, I realize I have to get married

to you in two weeks and I'm not ready to get married. Like, that's okay. Not just I don't want to go to Baja. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? Because like free trip to Baja. I would have gone too. Kind of hard to like. They know at the altar.

Yeah. Yeah. Then they would have been in the two couples that didn't have sex. And then Edmund wouldn't feel so alone. Yeah. All right. Let's do a little Housewives of O.C.

We will get into the Miami reunion, which everyone's buzzing about, as well as Real Housewives of Potomac. We're going to check that one out this season. That will be on Thursday's episode of Reality Recap. I loved this episode. I don't know. I was clocked in.

Well, if you're not clocked in, here is a rapid recap of the most recent episode of Real Housewives of Orange County. We're back in hell, which is Orange County. Tamara is still trying to win Shannon back and plotting ways to destroy Gretchen. Also, Jen, followed the guy in the boy band Tamara allegedly fuck. Shannon broke her readers and is still wearing them.

Symbols are everywhere for those. those with eyes to see, et cetera, et cetera. Heather is here to remind everyone that she takes sketch comedy very seriously. Jen's son gets an angel number tattoo to prepare for the Marines. Then he almost passes out. God bless the troops.

Gretchen loves that she's not invited to Tamara Springfling party. Emily once again refers to Gretchen as Gretcher's for some reason. Then she calls her a bad Christian. There's nothing like Orange County Housewives. Shannon thinks she looks like a prairie hooker. She's just wearing a red dress.

Tamara is going to meet Katie because she does feel like Gretchen is the all-star liar in the group of liars. that pisses Emily off. Heather is mad at Gina for shit-talking her improv journey. Gina didn't know Heather was a comedian because she's never been funny and is also too young to remember her 90s sitcom. And listen, all love to Heather. But if your friends start taking improv, it is your civic duty to make fun of them. Support them, but not too much. Comedy needs trauma, et cetera, et cetera. Heather also doesn't trust Tamara with her feelings, which is the funniest conclusion to just now come to maybe Heather is a comedy queen. But then Tamara quits again and I'm bored. Overall, Katie Janella, you are missed. Get back here. seriously i'm not bored by the second quitting honestly yeah again no i was like at this point it's kind of hilarious it is funny it is okay rule of threes

rule of threes first time it was funny second time not impressed you gotta hit me with a third time for me to get into the bit when was the first she screamed out when the gretchen thing the night before the day before yeah oh okay sorry she's only stormed out twice she's still bored uh can we bring up heather's i mdb page you mean hether page kent Yeah, what sitcom was she in? Did she, like, go on one date with Jerry Seinfeld in an episode of Seinfeld?

No, she did Hot in Cleveland in season four, season six or something. She did a guest star rule, but, like, she's been on sitcoms. Any main characters, any recurring roles? She was no Terry Hatcher, I'll say that. Are you pulling it up? Stark Raving Mad, that's Live, Dwight, Hibo, Jenny. When Gina called Heather Brave for doing stand-up comedy, well that's very brave

that's very brave that's very brave that was kind of specifically for me I died I loved it the best part was because like Gina wasn't

trying to be a bitch she was right that's so brave that's he loved Tina she kind of was though she kind of I don't think so

I think that Gina was like really I think Gina seriously thought it was brave of her she her being like I guess Heather's my funny friend yeah

that was she like that if I was Heather Dubrow in that moment like me being the person I am if I found out my friends were

that shocked I was getting into comedy, I may, like, walk out the door and never return and go into the ocean somewhere. It also killed me that Emily came in, guns ablazing, ready to just, like, stir the pot with Tamara, Tamara then, like, leaves. And then Emily's, like, confiding in the cake baker. I'm sorry, and, like, this might, to be offensive to Emily, but I'm like, Emily is just, like, the fakes friend you never want. Yeah.

Like, because she can't wait to throw someone under the bus, but she never acknowledges her part in the conversation, and even when she does, she's like, I think, um, I think I said that. And it's like, no, you literally come in before anyone gets there and you're so ready to cause a fight between Tamara and Heather. Why? She's like, I said it too, but it's not that big of a deal, but Heather said, I need Emily to stop talking about her kids eating disorder. I'm just like bored. I'm like, Emily, stop using your kid and like what's going on with them as your storyline. It's grossing me out. Yeah. I think maybe it was coupled with the fact that we are literally walking into a store for business built on

breaking pottery only to glue it back together if that's not the most bored privileged white women shit I've ever seen Oh for sure. Yeah. I want to do it but it's fine I don't know what it's crazy. I don't know what it symbolizes I just think there's just like you know I actually did that with my dad though I lived in Japan for two years though and I when during COVID we were like all locked down together my dad was super sick like literally so sick in a wheelchair

And we broke like a planter that we got my mom for her birthday. And so like as a family, my mom, my dad and I all like put it back together with like the gold. That's not blue. It's like a thing. And it was like very therapeutic for us in that moment. It was spiritual. And I was like, I lived in Japan. I'm not sure it all has its benefits.

It's just like you clearly have a lot of free time and money and your life is luxurious beyond belief that you have the ability to pay to break shit only to put it back together. That is just it's just. insane. I mean, I think we just have to recognize that. And I just like, I don't know, like, all these, like, kids in the LSC with parents who just have nothing but time to think about problems for their kids. I don't know. It's just like, I don't know. I also agree. I was going to say I agree with your statement about the talking about the eating disorder thing. It's like, this came up recently with like some mom friends. And it's like sometimes if you put too much pressure on a situation, it starts to like add to the issue versus like allowing somebody. like to just be themselves and like it kind of works itself out and I'm no parent so I'm like yeah it's like parents you're like parents are uncomfortable with their idea and like get it as a parent we don't want our kids to feel discomfort or pain or disappointment but that is all a part of life right like all those things are like lessons to be learned I think like this some parents have too much

goddamn time in our hands on their hands that they're like they're in it you know it's all comes from a place of love but like it's just like let just fuck man I don't know But maybe I miss reading it, but I just, I just need to stop talking about it because it's like always an uncomfortable scene. I'm definitely the odd one out there. I think it's pretty like interesting to see her talk about like her kid that's struggling with an ED, but also it's coupled with like being on the spectrum. And like how she's saying like it's causing issues. First of all, I wouldn't want this on TV, but I think it's something we don't see on TV. And I can see why she's vulnerable for showing it.

But it's also like not her, I mean, sorry, but like obviously we know kids can't give. consent. So it's just kind of like you're blasting this child's personal information for millions of people to watch, let alone he has to go to school. You know, so it's like now we have a bunch of people who shouldn't know his medical records, now hearing from a mom's point of view, let alone that the mom is kind of making this about her and how it's affecting her and her relationship and all this. I'm like, I just don't think you need that broadcast it or like the kid doesn't. It all comes from a place of love. One of my best friends, I've met his parents, love his parents. they're great parents they have a great relationship but like when he was in high school like

i don't know what he was going through he was an eccentric person he was an eccentric kid and he like he was put on all this crazy medication and sent to like off into the woods and whatever and like he was like fine and like all he had to do is this like grow up and get off you know like and he was put on a bunch of shit that he shouldn't have been put on because like he was just a little bit of a weirdo. I don't know. I think it was crazy that Jen followed the boy band guy. Yeah. It was just random. Like, why? And her reasoning makes zero sense. In her defense, she follows like 3,000 people and I'm one of them. And I don't think she follows me because we've said nothing but nice things about Ryan. Oh. I just want to know who the boy band guy is. I do. I think I know.

Who? Who? Well, I mean, to we take it out? Allegedly. Who do you think it is? Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly it's Jeff Timmons from 98 degrees. Oh, that's interesting. So not Nick Lachey, but the other lead singer from the boy band, 98 degrees. Copy. And honestly, like, the ending of this season is really interesting for me because you know how against Tamara I was last season. And it's just kind of like, A, watching the Gretchen of it all.

And then it's just, um, Jen acting like a deer in headlights being like, what do you mean? Like, I just, I followed. And then it's like her ITM is like, well, I just wanted to see in case he saw that I followed. him and he wanted to tell me anything like that is such a weird thought process that you're like oh I hope he wants to talk shit about Tamara because he'll see my blue checkmark and then Google me and see that because do you think he's sitting here watching Orange County hoping that he gets brought up but don't you think it's possible that Jen doesn't understand how Instagram works and she thinks she has to like follow people in order to follow them I think it's safer to

say Jen doesn't understand how housewives work than it is Instagram also there's like the photo shoot of Gretchen and Slade and their kid was just weird. They look cute though. I kind of like the... It's giving a family who purges. They teach their own, you know? I just, yeah. I don't need to see that. You know they were Easter photos too. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Gretchen... The bunny. Like, if you're doing it to be funny, ha ha. If you're doing it like they were doing it,

weird. Did nobody grow up taking like Easter photos? No, we were too poor. You had a family? That's nice. I did a... My family comes with its own trauma, but... I took... We took Easter photos, but it was like at church, and then occasionally there would be Easter bunny there, and I always got...

Yeah, but then when the Easter bunny would come, I would get so scared, because to see... First off, those costumes always smell bad, and when it's a grown man in a bunny suit, it's just, like, not good. Anyway. Also, if I have to hear Emily refer to Gretchen as Gretcher's... One more time, I will lose it.

Like, why? And I will say that Jen's... this season is kind of one of my least favorite, so I tend to fast forward any segment that's like her and just like her kids or something. But it was really weird to me how this tattoo shop where, did Dawson

have a seizure or they said he would pass him out? That's what I saw, but clearly it seemed like a normal thing because the tattoo artist seemed pretty unfazed as a regular thing. Yeah. That was probably the most crazy thing for me to watch because I was just like, I feel like a medical professional should be necessary. I've never once heard of

passing out to like, but like, He got, like, stiff. No, he started shaking. The seizure part was where I was like, wait, this is more going to pass out. And they're acting like, this is normal, but they're also like on camera. I guarantee they're like, just keep it cool. Just keep it calm. It will be over.

I think it's trained when you become a tattoo artist to like, because I think that is a common reaction, you know, and every time I've gotten a tattoo in like an actual tattoo facility and not like from a friend in my house, it's, um, it's been very much like, have you eaten today? Like, what, you know, have you had any alcohol? Like, there's a lot of, like, questions that you have to fill out. And I think he clearly is a young kid. It was his first tattoo.

You do get, like, hot and sweaty before you pass out. And he had no, you know, he was already sitting down. So we really had, like, nowhere to, like, fall down to. So I think that's kind of why he had the reaction that he had. I don't think it was, like, a seizure or, like, epilepsy or something. I think it was genuinely just to pass out. Because he came back to and was like, well, I'm good. I'm, well, wait, fine.

It still was weird that they aired it. I would have loved to take it out. Definitely weird that they aired it. We could have definitely gone without it for sure. Especially knowing he's going into the Marines. Yeah, don't you feel like the Marines are going to see that. Yeah, I don't know. Not for us.

Yikes. I know. I just like it's just more like I hate that all these housewives and various franchises have this golden rule that you don't talk about our kids, but like to Sierra's point, they all use their kids. Not all of them. Many of them use their kids. And it's all if it's like, you know, the way

like i don't know like meredith like i don't know it's fun to see her family but i just don't want to see their trauma or like i don't know it's just a little uncomfy anyways that's going to do it for us this episode we got a jam-packed episode for you on thursday madison from love is bind joins us as well we also will wrap up uh any commentary about the first batch of episodes we will tackle the first episode of the second batch on thursday and save the rest for the following tuesday heavy on Thursday's episode of reality recap. We got Salt Lake City. We got Miami. We'll get into the

first episode of the second batch of Love is Blind. We've got Potomac as well. Madison from Love is Blind is going to join us. I'm sure we're forgetting something. It's going to be jam-packed. Don't miss it. And I think that's it. We'll see you Thursday. Bye. Whatever team Fia is on has a chance to win a championship. I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams.

The WMBA playoffs are here, and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind-the-scenes moments you won't find anywhere else. It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have. So listen to In Case You Missed it with Christina Williams and IHeart Women's Sports, production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.