The Viall Files - E1014 Ask Nick with Dylan Efron - Mr. Perfect Liar

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

It’s an extra special edition of Ask Nick this week as we welcome dream boat extraordinaire Dylan Efron to help Nick give our callers some advice! Our first caller wants to know if she’s dating Mr. Perfect or Mr. Perfect liar? Our second caller is a former youth pastor in her fuck boy era but is struggling to feel confident with her new lifestyle. And, our third caller is dating a guy who has a crazy baby. “Is her bark worse than her bite? How crazy is this chick?”  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 855-646-8855 and leave us a message. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Shopify - Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at https://Shopify.com/Viall.  BetterHelp - If you’re ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that Journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://BetterHelp.com/viall.   Grammarly - Sign up for FREE and experience how Grammarly can elevate your professional writing from start to finish. Visit https://Grammarly.com/podcast.  Tonal - Right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase with promo code VIALL at https://tonal.com.  Perelel - Exclusive for our listeners, new customers can enjoy 20% off their first order with code: VIALL. Visit https://perelelhealth.com.   SKIMS  - Shop SKIMS Mens at https://SKIMS.com. Let them know we sent you! After you place your order, select "podcast" in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows. Chewy - Shop costumes, toys, and treats with Chewy! Go to https://Chewpanions.chewy.com/viallfiles to get $20 off your first order.  Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:56) - Catching Up w/ Dylan (09:41) - Caller One (58:20) - Caller Two (1:22:34) - Caller Three (1:45:12) - Outro   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @dylanefron @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @dereklanerussell  

Every October, our pets get just as excited as the rest of the family, which means we need costumes that actually fit them. Toys at last and treats they love. Chewy always comes through with fast delivery, great deals, and everything in one place. That's why they're our go-to for making Halloween special for Jeff and Steve. We love that. We can get everything our pets need in one place. Food, treats, toys, even supplies for horses, farm animals, birds, fish, reptiles, and other small pets. Whatever your pets look like, Chewy has a solution for you.

Chewy has it all. And it all shows up right to your door in just one to two days. Chewy also makes pet health simple. You can refill prescriptions, grab flea meds, even get advice. And now they're expanding in-person vet clinics too. It feels like a whole support system for your pets. And if you ever have questions, whether it's about flea meds or anything else, Chewy's there 24-7.

I've even called late at night and someone picked up. And if something doesn't work out, I can return it. No questions asked. What really gives us peace of mind is Chewy's 100% satisfaction guarantee. We can return anything within a year. No questions asked this Halloween. make your pets be part of the celebration. Shop costumes, toys, and treats with Chewy.

Go to chewpanions.com slash vial files to get $20 off your first order. That's chupanions.chewy.com slash vio files to get $20 off your first order, Chewpanyons.chewy.com slash vile files. That's C-H-E-W-P-A-N-I-O-N-S dot chewy. Chooy.com slash Vile Files. Shopify. Listen, it's always difficult starting your own business. I've started a few in my life, certainly here at MV Media. We're a growing company and a partner that's been by our side since the beginning is Shopify.

Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the USA, from household names like Mattel and Jim Shark to brands just getting started. Every business these days has some kind of e-commerce part of their business, just like NVMedia. And Shopify is your go-to solution for all your e-commerce needs. The best part about Shopify, well, there's so many best parts, but one, first and foremost, it can grow with your business. Doesn't matter if you're a business of one or a business of 100,000. Shopify is the best solution for you.

It's drag and drop functionality. It's very easy to set up. You get a world-class customer-facing website. Their app is amazing. You can literally run your entire business from your phone. Every time you make a sale, it's always fun and motivating. Track your inventory. They also have thousands of application to add on to your Shopify platform to really make it

robust and customized to your store needs. Can't say enough about what Shopify can do. Accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product design, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you. You have a marketing team behind you easily generate emails and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling and strolling.

Also, Shopify make sure that the people who are adding things to your cart, they drastically improve your checkout rate with all their great features. if you run a small business today and you have an e-commerce company, Shopify is the solution for you. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at Shopify.com slash V-I-A-L. That is Shopify.com slash V-I-A-L. One more time, Shopify.com slash V-I-A-L. Dylan, welcome back to the show. I'm stoked to be here.

I'm very stoked to have you. Yeah, the first time you came on here, you flattered me by saying that you used to listen to some Ask Nick episodes. Yeah, I still do. I love that. This is, of all the shows that we do, this is my favorite show. It's like a passion project. I actually feel like we actually help people.

Well, you're good at it. Like, when you first asked me, I'm like, I'm going to love this, but I'm also going to be as helpful as your dentist would be. Like, I'm not going to give good advice, but I love it. I think you'll be surprised. You know, people always say, like, they ask me, like, why, you know, are you good at, why are you good at advice? Well, like, I'm old enough to have made plenty of mistakes and tried to have learned from them. I think you're going to surprise yourself.

We'll see. You have to give me a score. So, bring it back to dance with those stars, give me a score at the end. Because also people just want to, like, also, that's why I love about this show, too. It's just like, you know, when we do the other shows, like, really, you know, I, I certainly love interviewing people. When we talk like pop culture and reality TV stuff, it's just like, I certainly love giving my opinion, but it's like hazard pay where this is, I think it's, it's the most honest way

I can like show people who I am as a person because you can be a little bit vulnerable without like sharing too much about yourself if you don't want to. And I'd surprisingly like to be a private person. Yeah, people are going to really enjoy hearing your perspective because I think they just enjoy hearing from you period but before we get to our first calls obviously you're you're on dancing with the stars and we want to talk a little bit about this we are recording this eight days before the episode's going to come out so dylan i'm i'm going to be guessing you're not getting eliminated i hope i hope so i'm banking on that we're doing a quick step right now a quick step

yeah so we just did a fox trot and it's kind of nice because fox trot was my first time in frame okay quick steps still in frame but it's like a lot faster so we're going to be running around that stage. I think it's a good progression, though, because I had struggled with the foxtrot. I do, the frame is so much easier for me than like, I think that classic ballroom, I'm tall and long, so like I can build out. I had a hard, I don't know, I just struggled with it. It felt like, I don't know. Dude, the Latin stuff's way harder. Like, you saw my weeks one and two. I was out there shaking it. It's fun to watch you, man. It always brings me back, but you are, you're having a good time. It's so much fun. Like, I knew it was going to be a challenge and

it's so out of my comfort zone, but I'm in love, like, I love it so much more than I have I thought I would. Courtney's been to every show. She's enjoying it? Yeah, she loves it. She doesn't like the camera in her face every, every time. It was like, she always like, can I just go and like not sit in the recorded seats? And then sure enough, the camera's right there the whole time. She's definitely a pretty private person. Yeah, she's getting used to it, though. I'm so happy she's there every week. Because you, you know, your brother, obviously has been a big star for a while. I knew of your existence a few years back. I think one day, like, the internet was like, oh, that guy friend has a brother. And he's hot. And I was like,

Oh, yeah, it's a good-looking guy. But, like, seriously, lately, ever since you went on traitors and now you're dancing with the stars, your star has been rising, you know? Like, you have become a real public figure. You're a very humble guy with it, but, like, how has your girlfriend in your relationship, we talk a lot about connection on this show,

like staying connected and, and Natalie and I, that's something we, in past relationships, I never thought about that word and tangibly, in a sense, where it makes sense. But, like, in our relationship now, you know, with therapy we've done and things like that, we were mindful of how connected or disconnected we are at any given moment. And obviously, with you being busy and the attention you get,

how do you and Courtney stay connected? And how has she been with this recent success that you've had in the public eye? I wouldn't say much has changed. So, like, the cool thing that's changed is we started traveling together a lot more. So, like, for a lot of these, like, trips I'll do with brands or whatever. I'm going to bring her with me. So it's like, I think incorporating her more into that has helped our relationship a lot. Yeah.

And then I would be lying if dancing with the stars wasn't tough. But I think it's tougher on Courtney than me just because we're in the studio five hours a day. Yeah, yeah, you're like, my brain's mush. My body hurts. So it's like we're actually like I'm living outside of our Manhattan Beach place right now closer to where the studio is. so that it's trying right now but like she's so supportive she knows i love her 100 so it's like we know it's all temporary and like so that's why i don't think anything's really changed like i know it's hard for us right now but we're still where we are we still love

each other and it's yeah we're in a great place yeah like you mentioned like the trap like doing things together yeah when you travel and stuff like that's something that nal and i are pretty intentional about where we just you know we have busy lifestyles so it doesn't feel we're never suffocating each other because there's a lot of variety. We also just like hanging out together, which I think is important. But yeah, it sounds like you guys have a good thing going. Before we get to our callers, Dylan and I share the same publicist. She is here in the background. She wants us to plug that Dylan and I are both up for sexiest man alive and separate categories. And it's not sexiest man alive. When I first saw that, I was like, no way, I got it. It's a subcategory.

It's part, it's a subcategory. Yeah, we don't qualify for sexiest. a lot so it's subcategory i'm tattoos which i'm a little offended back so well i get but maybe it's like the the dog tattoos and the butterflies don't don't cut it dylan does it to have sexy tattoos though uh i guess i'm up for sexiest podcast host that's honestly like there's a lot of podcast hosts i'm just happy to be included in the same category as dylan effron and dylan is competing on dancing with the stars every tuesday night and he needs your support so uh be sure to to text Dylan to 21523 and make sure that this man gets to the finals. Getting to the finals matters winning.

That's more of an ego thing. No, getting to the finals is the goal because that means I like, I juiced it as much as I could. No, like I got as much time and, yeah, of learning to dance as I could. Go to go to people.com and find the sexiest. Yeah, go to sexiest men.com. That's so weird. I don't know if you want to Google that. When I went dancing with the stars days, I was ripped.

Dude, you burn so much calories. And Natalie feels a little cheated that I don't, I'm not carrying quite the same physique. And a couple times she has sent me photos of you as inspiration. It's honestly crazy, though. It's like I'm normally pretty fit. As soon as I started dancing, you're ripped, dude. My pants size has gone down. I'm like a 30, right?

Or 31. I'm a 31. And it's, my pan signs with the dime and I still, I haven't had sugar all year. Wow. Yeah. But it's, it's just activity. It's like, we're dancing for four hours. So it's not like I'm lifting weights.

It's literally, I'm just moving. And I'm losing so much weight. That really, you made it. It turned me on. Anyways, I'm going to stop hitting on Dylan. Well, I mean, I know our callers are waiting for us. So how about we just dive into the caller? So I know you've listened before.

I don't, I don't read these calls. So, like, my producers will select them. I go in blind. Oh, I love it. That makes we even have here. So we just kind of active listen, ask questions as they come up. This is just being at a party and someone who calls in and says, all right, I got to bend your ear, man. It's the best.

There's no wrong answer. There's no wrong answers. I know. I was to get into it. So let's get to our first caller. How's it going? Hi. I'm Jessica.

I'm 30 years old and I need to know if I'm dating Mr. Perfect or Mr. Perfect liar. Okay. Well, tell us more about Mr. we don't know yet so his name's damon um that is real name or we were no it's a fake name okay and um we met on bumble uh like two months ago okay we had the best first date uh i've ever had uh the chemistry the connection everything was perfect okay but then something like on the fifth date. He canceled last minute, but with a really apologetic, like, heartfelt response and then said that he would explain the whole situation to me on our next date. He planned the next

date. And I actually kind of forgot about it because we both work weird our jobs, but he was prioritizing me. Why did him canceling require a massive explanation as opposed to like, you know, sometimes things come up? Like, was it like last minute? Or? Like, yeah, it was last minute. Okay. It was like two hours before the date. Okay. What did you say? Do you have that message? Yeah, I do. So he originally was going to just push it back. And then he goes, I really hate to do this. I am so, so sorry. Can we possibly reschedule our sushi movie night? This is going to take me way longer than I thought, super annoyed right now. I wanted to let you know, though, so you weren't waiting on me, although I didn't give you much of a notice. I'm very sorry. I will make it up to you. I will make it up to you. I I promise. So was he like busy at work or something? No, he claimed that he was helping his parents with something.

Okay. And he didn't really give me much detail. And then I just kind of thumbs up the message because I was slightly annoyed. And then so later that that was at like 4.30. Our date was supposed to be at 6.30. And something that you should note is that when I was waiting for the date, I went out with my friend and I was kind of showing his profile to her. And I don't know if you know much about Bumble, but it updates your location at the bottom of the profile every time you open the app.

Okay. Yeah. And so it showed that. So I'm going to use like a fake location, but it's like the same distance and similar to us. So let's say that he lives in Fort Wayne, Indiana. It was showing that he was in Coldwater, Michigan, which is like an hour 15 away from him. and he lives an hour away from me already in the opposite direction. So it would have been like, yeah.

This might be a dumb question, but are you guys exclusive? Like how many, this is like your fifth date at this point? Yeah, we were not exclusive. What conversations, if any, did you have about like the progress? Like, it's five dates. It's like. We didn't really have a conversation yet. Like we both seem to be enjoying ourselves.

And he was the only guy I was seeing at that point. Have you hooked up? Not yet. Not at this point. So at this point, we only made out like a heavy makeout session. That's about it. The issue is that that's just where, like I noticed, oh, okay, he's in this area. You noticed and it got in your head.

Yes. But the actual issue is if he lied about his excuse. So after like I thumbed up the message later that night, he messaged me again saying, I'm sure you're upset with me. And rightfully so, I'm very sorry again. That's not how I anticipated my afternoon or evening going, very annoyed and will gladly explain. Wait, so the same night he canceled, that's when you looked at the location and he was in a different state? During the day.

So he ended up, so at like 2.30 is when he first said that he got caught up with his parents and couldn't. It might have had to push the date back a couple hours. But you know where his parents live and this is not where they live. He lives with his parents. Okay. Because he moved back home a couple months ago. So he's just trying to wait until he can buy a house. So he was not where he was supposed to be, which is that's not the issue.

The issue is when we ended up making up our date, we went to, or I completely kind of forgot to bring it up, like for him to like explain. the situation and he brought it up on his own which i was like okay that's kind of a green flag that he went out of his way to bring it back up but his his story did not have him out of state it had him rather close to where he lived and it didn't really make sense he claimed that he was helping his parents with they had like a r they rent a trailer at an RV place and he was helping them with that and then their neighbor slash friends try to move a big porch and he helped them and then one of the guys dropped the porch on his foot and it broke his like toes and so he had to take

him to the hospital the guy you're dating broke his toes no the other guy one of the neighbors and he took him to the hospital and he grew up in this area so he's well familiarized with the hospitals in that area um and i asked him like oh like what hospital and he goes oh um i don't know had to be this one and it was the way that he phrased it that sounded weird yeah because even if even if he didn't know it off the top of his head a quick you know more like no it's the one over on like that part of town there would be probably like it had to be this one is weird yeah it was like weird and so like i just like kind of notated it and i could pick up on the vibe from him that he could tell that I was kind of skeptical what's your thought

yeah I'm I'm I'm kind of confused why I don't understand how serious you guys are is I guess my problem because I don't know why he's feeling the need to explain in such detail to you why he couldn't like why he had to miss a date like I I me personally I wouldn't have like come with a like oh my gosh I'll explain it so much it's like hey I'm so sorry I can't make it like I wouldn't have made an excuse pre-ready so I'm wondering why he felt the need to like really make this such a big deal and stuff yeah to the Dylan's point that's why I asked early on we're like you know stuff comes up we don't like a last minute ditch but the the main thing is like someone's willingness to reschedule like it's always like hey

something came up can tonight that's it then that that seems that feels like a flag hey something came up really sorry like let's rain check for this week and i have time like i'm available blah blah blah like that that's really it it doesn't need like yeah like why did he feel the need to explain i guess and i that's that's where i'm like me are you guys really serious so he's like just treading on water and doesn't want to upset you or maybe he could tell that you were already upset so he's trying to or he's floundering yeah or he's lying so i i don't know i i have a pretty good got and I just, something fell off. I didn't know what fell off. But just like, it just felt maybe it was like performative. I don't know. Did you, so like where did you question him? Like, did you just?

I didn't call it out yet because I like to have somewhat of like proof before I ask questions or like that's just part of, I've been lied to so much. I don't like to just ask questions then not know if they're actually lying or not. What did you do? So I like to notate stuff. So I ended up, So that day ended up, we ended up sleeping together that night. Wait, wait, hold on, hold. So, what? I was going to say, I ended up, so because the rest of the date went fine. So I was like maybe, so in my head, I'm trying to be logical.

I was like, maybe he opened the app like earlier in the morning. Fair enough. Minus the details. If we're understanding, because I feel like we're on the same page here, you were dating this guy. You slow played it relatively. maybe maybe compared to like normal hookup culture these days but only had made out you had some plans he had to reschedule but his excuse gave you kind of a funny feeling where as you just described

your gut your body told you i don't know if he's being totally transparent i don't know if he's being honest i don't want to like jump to conclusions i'm going to hold off but that very night even though he gave you that feeling that this guy might not being honest with you you were like you know what this is the night we should have sex it just so I do lean more anxious so I was trying to give him in the benefit of a doubt because maybe I was being just like I'm all for I'm all for not jumping to conclusions and giving some of the benefit of the doubt but like that's a threshold you crossed a vulnerability and again as we always talk about this show like you know man women, whatever, but often women tend to be more vulnerable emotionally after being intimate with

someone for the first time. And it just, that's an interesting choice on your part. It really, it puts you in a very, it just puts you in a more vulnerable position. And I would be curious to ask yourself, why did I do that? Right? You mentioned anxiousness. I know, I'm not a big attachment style guy, but maybe you're an anxious attachment. And something about your subconscious must have done that to you know you were feeling insecure about this guy being honest with you and instead of like slow playing it pulling back a little bit and not pulling back to the point where you know you're like fuck this guy or whatever but just being like all right there i have i'm not sure yet you know we only been on five days he's giving me a bit of a yellow slash red flag moment here

but you you did the thing where it's just like well i want to close the deal so to speak and it was more like a subconscious fear of what if he is dating someone else what if he is interested in someone else and i would be interested if i were you why why you made that decision that you did so we had a movie night that night after dinner and it just kind of went that way it's not like no doubt no doubt yeah yeah so i didn't really think too much of it i like we it just like was an intense makeout that led to that and he was not pushy that this is another reason why it's so confusing because he was never ever pushy about any of like the physical aspects of it he always kind of let me take the lead on that area um so like i've dated players before i mean typically

you can tell when they're a little bit more gun-ho on the physical yeah but those covert players out there, too. Yeah, so that's why I just, he must be one of them possibly. I don't know. He also just like, you know, it's, there's a little bit of like, it just like just dating culture now where it's, you know, five dates is, it's not a ton amount of time, but like, it's a decent amount of time. And you didn't do kind of any checking in.

So like technically he's not really doing anything wrong. And I think a lot of people these days when they're dating people and going on dates. it's like unless you guys are like saying well all right we've been on five dates uh you know you were like i'm not dating anyone else but it doesn't sound like you really communicated that with him you made a choice for yourself and you're like i'm not going to date anyone else because i like him but you didn't use that as an opportunity to be like hey just like letting you know i really like where this is going and i'm not really interested in anyone else i'm not you know we don't need to i don't need you to like you know confess you're ever dying loved to me so i ended up talking to

win. So that was our fifth date. Then we ended up having a sixth date that went well. And so on our seventh date is when he ended up having to change his plan, just because, which was another one that was a little confusing because he supposedly lives with his parents. And he has a dog. His dog should be with his parents. But he claimed that he might have to change his plans. My parents didn't tell me they were going to watch my sister's dog and the dogs don't get along so they can't watch she for me so basically she has to stay with me should we do something else maybe with the dogs so it doesn't make sense because if he's living with his parent and but because after the date that he canceled and i noticed that he was in that other state cold water uh michigan i

continued to like kind of keep an eye out and he was in he was there a lot like often and on days that he told me that he like when he was like when we were just texting like we didn't text 24-7 but we'd text like every couple hours so was and was your at any point did you respond I thought you lived with your parents so I ended up saying oh I'm a little disappointed that place looked fun can't lie I'm a little nervous that you're going to cancel like last time because the last try to start, like, switching up the plans is when he canceled. So we ended up changing the plans to somewhere near us and then keeping his dog with at my place.

And then when he got here is when I was like, I'm a little confused, like, why can't the dogs, like, feed together like, I thought you lived there. And he basically said that it was his dad's fault because his dad, his dad agreed to it with his sister. And then him and his mom didn't know about it. So he was just kind of playing it off like, oh, dad made this plan and then didn't communicate it to us. So I kind of was and got the shit end of the stick. Part of me feels like there's like you admittedly already said you're a little bit anxious

and skeptical in relationships. It kind of feels like it's a little back and forth. Like he's almost afraid to cancel. So maybe he's coming up with some white lies to like try to not blow not wind you up like he has to cancel but he doesn't want to say that it was something stupid so he's like trying to come up with a good excuse and then you're questioning his excuses and I think it's

it could be like perpetuating each other a little bit like you are anxious and skeptical he knows that so he wants to really like make sure that you feel comfortable like and I don't know maybe that maybe it's like self perpetuating in a way well to that point I'm curious about you you know you date right so like you went on five dates with this guy like you didn't have

conversations about like what are we which is totally fine but you decided that you're not dating other people so from from your point of view like what are your expectations if you're not having the exclusive conversation then i'm assuming that you must at least accept that like he's might be you met on the app so he's probably still on the apps he might be matched with other people he could be going on other other dates so from your point of view would you want him to tell you you know that he's like juggling other dates because i think the problem with dating culture right now is like well why not you know it's just like well so then but then you get into these excuses that people start lying right because it's like well i don't know am i supposed to just tell her or we do i tell

him or so then like something comes up maybe this other date right he literally for all you know could have been matched with some other girl that he kind of likes maybe likes less than you doesn't really know and she was like well i'm actually going out of town that tonight's my only night so he's like all right well i'm gonna cancel with her and you know what i'm saying and now he's like lying to you uh i don't i'm not i'm not saying that's okay yeah that's the area where i because at this point we were not exclusive i was not the issue was not him seeing other people because when i date, I don't, like I said, I like to take things a little bit slower and I expect to them to not automatically cut everyone off because I don't want to just be chosen because they were just

like, oh, okay, that's convenient. I want you to pick me because I was, you actually liked me more than like other people. Like I don't want, I want to be the best option. I don't want you just to settle. So I don't expect him just to stop dating other people because we were dating. Um, my issue was the possibility of him lying because like I've, I've dated multiple people. Yeah. And I've, I've never lied to somebody. Like if they said, oh, what are you doing tonight? I just say, oh, I have dinner plan.

I don't say, oh, I'm seeing my sister and like make this extravagant lie. Because if you're lying that easily now, like, what else are you going to lie about? That's kind of where my head was concerned. Um, because I'm a really straight up person. How old is he? He's 30. Okay. That's great.

you are and I agree with you I do think that a lot of people justify these white lies especially when there's a lack of understanding what the expectations are between two people and it doesn't justify what he's doing but if you're someone who really values directness and honesty then then you should that's how you should communicate you know I've brought this up multiple times with Ronnie Wu, former therapist, celebrity chef, and he talked about, like, set the expectations of how you want to communicate.

If you want someone to text you back right away, don't wait three hours or a day. You know, like, don't, you know, a lot of times people like don't text back right away because they don't want to sound too eager, but like as soon as someone texts back right away, then it's like a green light of like how to communicate, right? So you need to maybe be more direct with what your expectations are.

And I think that would just help you out. Yeah. Well, I'm confirmed in the beginning of our dating that he was serious about dating. Like I asked him what his intentions were with dating. He said that he was dating for marriage. Sure, but that's so vague. No, exactly. And so I ended up on the seventh date after we ended up going bowling and we had dinner

and then we went bowling, and we were having, like, a really good time. And then towards the end of it, I brought up the conversation. I basically said it was like a temperature check. I was like, kind of just wanted to do a temperature check, see how you're feeling. And he was like extremely vague. He was like, I'm having a good time with you. Like, I enjoy getting to know you. And I was like, well, that's, I literally said, well, that's a very vague answer.

And he was like, well, I don't know what you want me to say. I can't sit here and say that. that I'm falling in love with you. And I was like, okay, I don't appreciate you doing that. Like, you're, like, putting this back on me and twisting it into something that it's not when, you know exactly what I'm asking, like, on where you stand here. And then he went back to, well, I'm dating to marry. And then so, and he goes, I'm just in a weird place right now because I'm living with

my parent and I'm looking to buy a house over in, like, the Michigan area, let's say. so kind of the area where he's been and he goes and so I would be a little further away from you and I was like that's okay like I enjoy my independence so that's not an issue for me I ended up saying like speaking of Michigan what's in cold water Michigan and he like looked like a deer with and like in headlights and was like oh um well my cousins live in cold water and I was like okay um and i kind of just like told them out right i was like the day that you you canceled i was happened to be on bumble showing your profile to my friend and it did show your location there and it's kind of popped up there several times since then uh so i'm just kind of curious on if you could have been like fibbing on the reason why you canceled and he didn't really respond with an answer. He kind of was just saying like, oh, I'm sorry. Like I did open my bumple when I was over there. Like I apologize for that. I'm like, that's not why. That's not what I'm asking.

And that's not the concern here. Like we're not exclusive. That wasn't my issue. My issue was the possibility of you like lying. And he was like, well, you seem like you already know or you already believe what you're thinking so like I don't really know what else to say um and that's really all he gave me yeah I hate this response from him yeah it sounds like he's just not ready it sounds like you're more ready than him and like I think that's a step back like if you're it seems like you're more in than him and maybe it's just time to take a little bit step back it doesn't mean it's not going to work out or anything but it's like and maybe I just don't understand dating culture, but like, you can have an incredibly emotional relationship

from phone calls and texts and like stay in touch. And, like, maybe the timing isn't right for him right now, but that doesn't mean it's not going to work. So I don't, I don't know. It feels like, it just feels like you're a little bit more ready at this time than him. Um, so it's not done. Okay. Um, his lack of communication, like it's been. Yeah, give me, give us the where are we now. So I was supposed to say, it's been like a week since I've spoken to him because we came back for him to like pick up his dog. And as he was like getting his things together, I kind of was just like standing there like we're standing there in silence because he wasn't giving me anything. And then so he puts his stuff in his car, comes gets his dog, walks out, doesn't say a word and leave. Is it?

And I had not heard from him since. I just need to know how did I self-sabotage this? No. I definitely, listen, I definitely have some notes for you, but I don't think you self-sabotaged it. I don't think you did anything wrong that would change this outcome with this guy. To Dylan's point, I completely agree that he's probably just not in the right state of mind. And if you've listened to the show, like you've heard me say, and I didn't realize this at the time, just how, I think especially for men, if they don't feel established with other aspects of their life, I think it's really hard for them to commit. They really, I think a lot of, especially guys, have to feel like a sense of purpose. They have to see their future in their kind of current state. When I moved to LA, living, you know, at my buddy's place, like not knowing, like quitting my job and just like, out here just like hustling. I was dating like crazy. And I was certainly like, you know, I was in my mid 30s. So if you ask, I was like,

yeah, I want to meet someone for sure. I'm dating to marry for sure. Sure, like that was definitely my answer, but I just don't feel like I realized how difficult it was for me to mentally really commit to anyone because, like, I was living at my buddy's place. You know, I didn't feel like, you know, I was still figuring out myself in a sense or what I was going to do. That's not an excuse, but I think for the ladies out there, if you're dating a guy who's living at home, anything that sounds transitional, you know, hates his job, complains. about his career um you know yeah like hey i'm saving money for for i'm living at homes like saving money or living with a friend like that's definitely a red flag in terms of whether they want to settle down or not it's a huge red flag for their actual ability to really be in a place where they really want to it's very easy for men to say well i mean yeah i mean i mean i want to like settle down someday for sure you know like they all mean it like i've always said like even in my book like every fuck boy wants to get married someday you know like they all they're and they're going to someday they will

find their pair you know i've never thought about that though it's a little bit of a subconscious that like before you're ready to commit you want to make sure that you are monetarily like yeah you can actually provide for a family it's like subconscious you know you can do it without needing to be the provider but it but there is a part of you that's like yeah there's a part of you that's like no i i want to take care of my family i want to i want to build something around you you want to feel settled and things like that. And so I think it's just in general when you're meeting men who give off this kind of energy, I would just proceed with caution.

It doesn't mean they're incapable, but I would doubt their ability to actually commit. Because just like in all the other areas, he seemed like genuine. Like he was actively like pursuing me. He was making, he was talking to me, but not overly talking to me. But there were like thoughtful messages. Because he is probably a guy. who wants to like have he probably likes having a girlfriend he probably does want to settle down he's an early 30 year old so it's not like he's 22 i guess my concern is how to because if i didn't have him like if we

met in the wild and i didn't meet him on bumble and i didn't happen to see his location and catch him in that possible lie how do i filter this yeah but i don't think i think you checking the location just maybe sped up the inevitable because again he was He was already canceling plans. He was getting a little flaking and consistent. Again, I think the most important part of this call was the fact that, like, you hooked up with them that night. And I think you need to be mindful of that kind of your subconscious choices.

And, like, my big thing is, like, get yours, you know, have your sex. I'm not here to tell people when to have sex. I've had one night stands. Like, I've had meaningless sex. Have some fun. But you got to separate hookup culture. and dating culture and, you know, and I think for men and women and just like, again, like, I don't know how you respond to, like, sex and being intimate with someone, but I think

you should just be honest with yourself about how you do respond and how that affects you emotionally. And just be careful about that. Like, you know, and again, like, when you say, and don't have the bar so low with men in the sense that, like, I know there's a lot of pushy guys out there who after the first date are, you know, giving you the moves and you know, like, this guy just wants to fuck, you know, like, I get that. But just because a guy is being a gentleman doesn't make him Prince Charming. And it doesn't mean he's still not a guy who, if you want to have sex, he's down to have sex with you, right? You know, like, you know what I'm saying? Because, yeah, like he sounds like a respectful, decent guy, right? Who probably someday wants to get

married and he's well-intentioned, but he's out there dating and he's on the apps and he met you and probably met some other people and he got a little messy with how he communicated. And I think your communication could be a lot better. And I think you could be more honest with yourself about what your expectations with dating are. And you mentioned, well, I want a guy to pick me for this and that. We all want to be chosen. I get that. But I strongly believe this. Like if you, if you're dating in 2025, especially if you're on the apps, if even, hell, I think you should lie. Um, I'm kind of couldn't, but like, tell a guy you have another date. If you're, if you are casually dating and you guys aren't exclusive, do not be afraid to tell

a guy that other men are pursuing you, you know, do not put yourself on the sideline for him, you know? Like, if you want to stop dating someone who's like them, great, but do not, like, there's this weird thing that I think like women do where they feel like you're, you're letting him know that you're ready to date him and you're ready to be chosen subconsciously if you stop dating other other men and I think men will if he really likes you you dating some other guy will fuck him up in the best possible way and even if you don't have a date I wouldn't be afraid to just be like yeah I mean I got a date tonight and I wouldn't say I have dinner plans I would

say I have a date okay I was supposed to say because I typically do date multiple people at once it's just I enjoyed him and I didn't have any other pursuers that like I actually wanted to date so that's kind of where I was at That's totally fine, but I'm just saying be direct. Does I like make him feel like he has competition? Sure. But like, you know, you don't have to be manipulative about it. But like you said, I usually say I have dinner plans.

Just say I have a, yeah, if someone calls, if you have a date with another guy and you're dating some other guy who, for whatever reason, you two haven't had any type of like, what are we, then you don't, you beat, you know, and again, your whole thing calling in is like, I want honesty, right? I want a guy to be honest with me. I want them to be transparent, but you're not, you're not actually being totally that either because, you know, it's not like, I have dinner plans, is it a mission of the truth when, and in reality, you have a date and you, in your whole, you're withholding that information,

and that's slightly better than what we all are assuming he did, which is like, he probably had plans with another woman, um, and he made up more of a lie. Yours was a a mission of the complete truth. You know, yours is better, but what's, you know, it's not fully the truth. And if two people aren't exclusive, if they're allowed to date other people, then do that, right? And it will be attractive to men. It will, it will. Because you will be honest and you'll be confident and you'll be direct and you will force the conversations that ultimately you have a hard time, it sounds like instigating, which is like, when do I ask a guy, what are we? When do I ask about exclusivity?

When do I, like, set those expectations? Normally, I'm really open. I think that whole thing got me, like, I was still trying to gather details and information for myself before I had that conversation because I still didn't know if I wanted to continue pursuing him if I found out that he was, like, I guess, lying and canceling on me. I'm like, now I'm going back to the original question, which is like, is this Mr. Perfect or Perfect liar? And I think maybe part of it, too, is just like a little bit of changing mindset of like, I don't think when you're on the like a sixth date or whatever, you're going to find Mr. Perfect.

I like relationships evolve so much as you get to know people. So maybe looking for more green flags and looking for less red flags and just being like, wow, this guy has potential. And like maybe the more we see each other, he's going to become that Mr. Perfect to me. but I think the odds that you're going to find Mr. Perfect on that first date is so low. It's like relationships just evolve and you get they become they you start to understand people more and see what you want. So I think he's neither. Yeah, he's neither.

He's neither. Perfect or a perfect liar. And I think he could become Mr. Perfect. And I think it's just like that mindset of like, wow, there's so many green flags. I've been burned in the past. It sounds like you have. So you're, you're looking for these red flags. everyone's going to have red flags.

If you're looking for him, you're going to find them. But maybe this guy had a lot of green flags that you could focus on. And eventually, like, it might get there. But I think it's... Well, we haven't spoke to for a week. I'm guessing. This guy's not it. I'm guessing he's not it.

But in the future, I'm sorry. And your question about that I self-sabotage, I'm guessing is coming from a place of how things got communicated. I think you got mad. and I think you weren't confident about like, can I say this? Can I not say this? Because again, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. And things get a little muddy when you have expectations, but those expectations aren't communicated. And then he could tell that you got mad. And then he was like, well, I don't want to even deal with it. So his, like, picking up his dog and walking out was like,

and I feel like that's a fairly typical situation. I would just love for you to really hold yourself accountable and just be confident in what you're bringing to the table and and just be direct with the guys that you are casually dating or seeing you got to start asking a little bit more direct questions you know like don't don't ask the vague questions you'll get the vague answers like are you dating other people uh you know i just might to make i'm not if you are that's fine i'm not saying it's bad but i just want to know especially after you intimate with someone you have a right to know you have a right to know if they're they have other sexual partners and things like that that's just being having safe sex and i guess that's where nick was saying like you don't even have to see other people

but you could say like hey i'm so sorry like i i got an asked on a date i i wanted to ask you before i went and like even even even something like that that's just like could be a total lie but but but then you're going to see like if he's like oh go for it like just see what changes or something like I think there is something to holding your power and not letting your anxiousness get the best of you and just like try to get on the same page. When you found out he might be up to something, instead of, to Dylan's point, like holding your power,

you became more vulnerable. And instead of saying, I'm not sure, like red flag, pull back, ask more questions, you... Pushed chips on. Yeah, you felt power. right you liked the guy that's fine you know you became less certain where you stood with him and so you allowed him to have all that power out of fear of losing what you thought you had and when you certain as you called in and you know and the caller's like we'll hear this but like

I find when someone says I had the best first date it's just like a huge red flag because it's a one date you know it's you can you can't tell and that's I'm glad you had a great first date and that's because that should be a fun that's like That was a lot of fun, and you can get excited about that, but it's just one date. And sometimes good daters who are really charming are really good at having great first dates, you know? Yeah, I can see that. I just normally I don't have the best first dates, but I guess that's why I was just saying it was like a really good first date. And that's all. And enjoy the first date, but don't, don't crown them just because you had a good first date.

And then I also, like, you know, I would know if I were you, why you decide to hook up with people, one way or the other. You know, you were like, well, you know, we had a good movie night and it just kind of happened, which is fine. But like, was it to have sex? Was it to advance the relationship? I just want you to know why you're making that decision, you know, and I want you to be confident in that decision. Whatever, you know, whatever it is. I also want you to know, too, that you're not doing anything wrong. Like, I feel like, I don't know, parts of this conversation feel like you're hard on your.

yourself and wondering if you made a mistake or something like you did a lot of right things you didn't have sex with them for the first six dates you like communicated in a good way like yeah there's little areas that you could improve on based on the story and how it went but it's like you know what you want you're doing it so like I'd have faith that you're you know what you're doing and what you want and it's going to happen so like I think I think this is just one one guy that wasn't ready when you were ready but it sounds like you have a lot of experience in knowing what has hurt you in the past, what you're looking for,

and you're on the right path. So it's like, I think just have confidence and retain that power a little bit more. How old are you again? 30. What are the ages of the men you're usually dating? Typically, my age or older. Only about like a couple years.

So I think the oldest is like 32 or three. I would be curious if like maybe aging up a few years could help. I just feel like it's really hard to find men. So my biggest issue has been finding men that I am attracted to while also having that in-depth connection that I want. Because the guy I was dating before this guy, we were seeing each other for a couple of months, and I just couldn't get that physical piece in. He was super sweet.

He treated me great. We had great chemistry, like, emotionally, but just that physical piece wasn't connecting. And so I think that's another reason why this one was nice, because I was actually attracted to him. and we had that, like, emotional side. So, I don't know. It's just really hard to find men that meet all my kind of wants. I hear you.

I mean, that's the challenge that you, it's tough to have standards and be picky because it makes it harder to find the people you like. And it's better to be picky than to like everybody. But when you do have standards, it, you know, there's definitely periods. You're like, fuck, man. I just like, ugh. And physical attraction changes, too. Like, like, I think the more you get to know people,

become more beautiful. So it's like, I think it is okay to, no, it's true. I know. You're such a sweet true. But like you can, you can definitely give, like, yeah, I don't know. You don't have to be so physically attracted at first. And once you get to know them, if they're just, I don't know, they become hotter. And that's why I did the other guy as long as I did, because I was hoping that piece would stick. Because there's a lot of people that I've dated that if I just looked at them, I wouldn't have typically gone for them. Yeah. But I am a big personality person. So, Most of the guys that have dated are typically, like, that attraction built because their personality, like, wins me over. But sometimes it just doesn't play.

Open up your pool a little bit more. You know, if you're only dating guys that are, like, two years older than you, you know, like, just... I have my app set for 44. Okay. All right. It's just, I just don't find most of them attract. I'm not saying they're all going to be better. I'm just, I am just saying, like, sadly, I think men are maturing slower.

than they used to yeah no i have faith in you i think the the only thing that like again looking for those green flags and people rather than sussing out the reds and then also like be aware when you do look for those reds that that it also has that feedback pattern too because as soon as someone starts questioning me i'll get defensive yeah so so i think it's again it's like you want to be that confident powerful person that that i want to just be up front with you that i trust and all that that stuff if I if you start questioning me I'm going to start questioning everything as well yeah that's a great point that was kind of the point I was trying to make earlier where it's just like in terms of like better communication it's just like rather waiting to the point where you're feeling anxious and

you're waiting and like I get wanted to give some of the benefit of the doubt but rather like just try as much as you can to challenge yourself to communicate what you're looking for and your expectations and it's okay to check in on a somewhat regular basis with the people you're dating about like what you want from them and see how they respond to your expectations because that doesn't sound like an accusation. You waited to the point where it was like, hey, I was looking, you know, it's like, I was looking at your location and where were you? And like right off, you know, it's just like, it's kind of, yeah, it's, it's, you're going to get really defensive. Yeah, because then he's like, wow, she's already doing this. Like, she's going to be tracking my

location. And it's, it was such an honest thing you did. Totally. But everything has that feedback pattern. I was just, it wasn't like it was an intentional thing. Yeah. It was just like I was showing my friend the bump, like, his profile. But there's just that weird thing in dating culture where it's just like, do I tell, you know, like, it's like, yeah, you should tell them. You know, people like justify these white lies because it's like, well, I don't want to be rude or I don't want to be a dick. But just be honest, you know, give them an opportunity to see how they're going to react. You also learn a lot more about someone when you find out how they react to the discipline.

appointment. Yeah, that was a thing that because communication is, even though it sounds like I'm not a good communicator, I'm trying myself. I've come because I was a really bad communicator for a long time. And I've gone to there, I've been going to therapy for years to fix it. We always have to work on our communication because it's so easy to, it's so easy to convince ourselves like the more passive approach to being direct. It's a two-way street too. Like you can, you can be an incredible communicator and you're dating people that suck a communicating. So that was what I was going to say was that it was that it's a non-negotiable for me to have a partner that can communicate. And he obviously showed that he's incapable of that on our last conversation.

And on the third day, I kind of questioned if he was going to be a good communicator or not because he said that he leans a little bit avoidant and that he's not necessarily the most efficient communicator. So that was already in the back of my head. And then the fact that he, like, walked out without even trying to talk about anything. Lead by example. My final note before we let you go, and I hope this was helpful, a thumbs up when you're annoyed is not the best form of communication. Well, I didn't want to, like, be, I wanted him to know that I got the message, but I didn't want to answer.

It's okay to let someone know you're disappointed. Okay, that's disappointing. I hope we, you know, I'm just saying, you know, I want you to be the person that you want to be, and I want you to have the type of communication that you're striving for in a relationship. And I just want to point out little things that are a little contradictory to the energy that you're hoping for to have in relationships. We all do these things. It's like the passive, aggressive, you know, thumbs up.

Like, I don't want to make it a big deal, so I'm just going to let you know I'm annoyed. We all do it. I'm just, I still do it, you know. But it's definitely not the most productive. Okay. You know. I won't take that. All right.

all right well thanks for calling okay thank you so much all right take care see you're great at them yeah it's it's hard because it's like I know she wants a relationship and I feel like

it's like you want to be honest but it's also she's doing a great job it's like hard to hear yeah it's really hard to hear yeah there's a lot she did right and it's like we have to focus on the small things and it's like I know

it's tough yeah all right let's get to the next caller This episode is sponsored by Better Help. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, and so always a great time to celebrate Better Help. Better Help has been helping people jump into therapy like never before. Again, we talk about it all the time.

We understand that therapy can be intimidating, it can be expensive, and incredibly inconvenient. But also, like, it's really important to find the right therapist to make sure that you're getting the most out of therapy. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to people who have said, oh, I've tried therapy, but I just, I don't know, it just didn't really work for me. And I didn't feel, and I ask why.

Like, well, you know, the therapist, I don't know. Listen, not all therapists are created equal. Also, not all therapists are meant for you. But with therapy, they're working with over 30,000 therapists to make sure that you can match with a therapist that's right for you. You can switch the therapist for free until you find someone that you feel comfortable with. It doesn't matter what you are stressed about.

Get it off your chest with better help. Maybe it's work problems, relationship problems, money problems, or just general anxiety. I find that most of the time just talking out with a professional is always helpful. It's great to talk with friends and family, but sometimes you, You need an unbiased opinion, and you don't want to wear your friends out with some of your personal problems. And maybe you also don't want to open up to, like, people that you know personally. Like, it's great to just have a professional stranger just to hear you out. I can't tell you how much has helped me.

It's incredibly convenient and flexible. Wherever you are, you can do therapy. All you need is an internet connection and a device. Better help takes all the excuses out of all the reasons why you might have avoided therapy in the past. If you've ever thought about it, if you're stressed about it, if you even consider it, Take the time to go to betterhelp.com right now. Answer a few questions about the therapy you're looking for, and you could be matched with a mental health professional in just a few hours.

This World Health Day, we're celebrating the therapists who have helped millions of people take a step forward if you are ready to find the right therapist for you. BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That is BetterHelp, H-E-L-P-L-L-L-L. Grammarly. Listen, if you are running any type of office, if you have employees, I know as an employer myself, I want to make sure that my team is working

on the things that I hired them for. Like, you know, I didn't hire them to write sentences and spell check their work or know where commas go. I hire them to be creative, come up with great ideas for the company. But you also want to make sure that you are sending effective emails typed properly. If you're like me, I'm dyslexic. It doesn't matter how many times I approve-read something. I always have a typo or error. But since Grammarly has helped our business. business grow. They help take all that busy work off your team's plate so that they can do the job that you hired them for. Gramley has features that are tailor made for working professionals so you can get all your writing done from start to finish. All in one place, bring more

polish and impact to your emails, presentations, and proposals without switching between tools and tabs, all while simplifying your voice and moving your ideas forward. Instantly generate well-written drafts with AI to get your ideas down on paper. 90% of professionals say Gramerly has saved them time writing and editing their work. Grammally sets the standard for responsible AI you can trust. AI powered tone features help you communicate confidently. You know, when you're typing email, you want to make sure you're coming across professionally, not sarcastic, some people try to be funny and it doesn't land.

Well, let Grammarly make sure that you have the right tone for the right email to have the right impact. Edit quickly with context-aware suggestions everywhere you write. 93% of professionals report that Grammally helps them get more work done. Can't beat that data. You deserve to be equipped with the best tools to do your job with the right AI support. Grammarly is designed to help professionals with real-time writing support on any project email or more. So easy to use, easy to sign up, and I promise you

you won't regret it by getting yourself and your team, Gramerly, today. Sign up for free and experience how Grammarly can elevate your professional writing from start to finish. Visit Grammarly.com slash podcast. That's Grammarly.com slash podcast. When life gets busy, workouts are often the first thing to go. With Tonal, you can make sure you're checking workout off your to-do list. With their smart and compact strength training system, I was visiting my friend Tyler, Cameron, you know him, I think, and he's got a tonal gym, and I was just absolutely obsessed with it. So much so that I'm making sure I get one here at the lake. We have a tiny little gym in the house, and it's amazing what you can do. Like, you know, you've seen Tyler's

workouts. They're incredible. He's in great shape. There's nothing you can't do with the tunnel gym. It's compact, it's slick, it fits up against the wall, and also they have all these amazing workouts and instructors. Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the guidance of a personal trainer anytime at home with one sleek system designed to reduce your mental load. Tonal is the ultimate strength training system, helping you focus less on workout planning and more about getting results. No more second-guessing your form. Tonal gym gives you real-time coaching cues to dialing in your form and help you lift safely and effectively. I'm someone who's like I've done all sorts of crazy workouts being a division one athlete a long time ago,

not to brag or anything. But listen, as you get older, it's just like, I don't have time to come up with a workout. I end up doing the same thing over and over. My workouts get less and less effective. But with Tonal Gym, I can't tell you how much of a great workout I got. And most of the workouts that take like 20, 30 minutes, you can be so effective grind out. And it's, yeah, and it's like it fits in your corner of your garage or if you have a separate workout room. It's truly amazing. right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase with promo code V-I-A-A-L. That is tonal.com and use promo code V-I-A-L for $200 off your purchase.

That's tonal.com promo code V-I-A-L for $200 off. How's it going? It's good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Summer. How old are you, Summer?

30. And how can I help? Or how can we help? I have kind of like a large-scale kind of thing that I'd love to discuss. And then I have smaller, like more timely things. But to start, I am a, I would say a recovering serial monogamist slash former youth pastor who is exploring her like fuckboy era. Okay.

So it is quite the transition that I'm making. So when you say you're a former serial monogamous, like how many serious relationships did you have in your 20s? Oh, like for my 20s, I was always in serious relationships. So I had a college boyfriend for a year, and then I had a four-year relationship, and then a year and a half, and then six months. So there was not a lot of time in between those either. Okay. And then when you think back and reflect on that decade, so to speak, give or take, what are your personal opinions about that?

Good or bad? Like what are things that you liked about it? What are things that you didn't like about it? And what are things that you learned about yourself in relationships? Oh, that's a great question. So I think it's interesting looking back at it because I think that I was so, like, I think my sense of confidence really came from being in a relationship. Okay. Like now that I'm kind of actually experiencing being single, I feel like it's really been a test to kind of be like, okay, can I, you know, go up to a like social gathering and feel like confident without another partner with me. Yeah, just a lot of my sense of worth came from another individual all throughout my 20s.

I can also put it out there that my dad passed away when I was 15. So it's very possible that like maybe there's some unresolved daddy issues there. So maybe I was just trying to like find that kind of love from a partner that's very possible. I also think like I've been a good partner. I do like having a partner. But yeah, I think it was really important for me to finally spend time on my own and actually kind of learn about myself. Okay. And then other than being a fuckboy, as you say, what are some things that you are as an independent woman right now? What are things that you are focusing on outside of dating?

Yeah, there's a lot. So I'm going back to school right now. I'm working towards a master's in counseling psychology. I still, like my passion is youth work and it always will be. And yeah, so I'm working towards that. So another way to put it as I feel like I've been living my, like I feel like I lived my 30s and my 20s. And now I kind of feel like I'm living my 20s and my 30s. So now that I'm like, I'm out of this job. I'm like, I want to do fun things. Like this winter, I'm going to try to work as a snowboard instructor. Like I'm going to try to do serving. Like I'm, I feel like I just want to experience what like a typical, I don't know, person in their 20s experienced because I feel like I didn't do that at all. I went right into like a serious job,

serious relationships. And now I feel like I'm kind of not going backwards, but I mean, yeah, I can, we've very much related. Yeah. I was so boring in my 20s. No, that's literally how I felt. Well, and I was very curious,

especially to come on this podcast because I know, Nick, like I've heard you talk about the fact that you did have kind of like, I don't know if it was necessarily Christian,

but some kind of religious upbringing. Yeah, totally. So that was in part too why I wanted to come on. Do you want to have kids someday? Oh,

so I don't necessarily want to have kids. I'm really open to building a family, but I've never had like a maternal instinct like I don't really like babies that much but I would love to have a family so I would love to adopt one day and especially because I am really good with adolescence like I would adopt like a 10 year old so yes and no but it's not something like I don't feel the pressure of like a maternal clock all right I don't see what the issue is everything you said sounds awesome yeah thank you you're in a great place yeah so well to that to that To that point, like what can we help you out with? Like, what do you? Yeah. So I think a large part of it is maybe some like religious guilt, I guess, of like trying to explore. Like, I feel like I'm in a place now where I feel that especially too, like sex is like a healthy and good thing. But coming from someone who and I was like for the longest time, like I was saving myself for marriage. So it's, I don't know, it's interesting trying to like explore.

or myself as, like, a sexual person without feeling that kind of, like, I don't know, religious guilt. Because I also, like, I still consider myself someone who, like, I love Jesus. I have a lot of problems with, like, American evangelicalism. But, and like, I consider myself quite a progressive person. But there is still, I think, some of that, like, deep rooted religious trauma. Yeah, I'm familiar with that. Like, so what do you have been doing lately dating wise? Like, how is the hooking up going on? I'm hitting the apps. I'm hitting the apps. Okay. Are you getting laid? Like. How's that going?

And how has that been? Like how? I don't know. It's been fun. Like I feel like I've gotten to a point now where it kind of feels like, like, I don't know. It could kind of just be so meaningless at times. And I, so I had one person recently and I was going to ask, I don't know if you think

I'm crazy for this. But like we kind of had this like two week kind of fling. And I was really into it. And he seemed like the first person that in. my whole year of kind of exploring. Like, he was the first person that I was like, you know what? Maybe I don't need to have my ho era or my fuckboy era, whatever it is. Like maybe I could just settle down and be with someone.

And it seemed like he was also very into it. And then out of nowhere kind of just like ended it. And it was in a phone call too. And that was kind of a bummer. But yeah, I don't know. And that one really hurt for some reason. Like, I don't know. I've been happy just like going on dates and meeting people.

And I like being single. But that one kind of really hurt. I have strong opinions about all this. I'm curious what Dylan has to say as well. But as I see here today, like, I love my life. I wouldn't change anything about it. Love being married to Natalie. Love my daughter.

I certainly waited a long time to find those things. Totally. But I'm currently in a position where I wouldn't change anything. That being said, like, was a serum monogamous all through my 20s. After I got out of that last relationship in my early 30s, I was finally comfortable with being single. And like you, like I felt like all my value was wrapped up in this desire to be in a relationship.

Internally, I felt like, that that was wrong, but I felt that almost crutch or that it was, it just was, even though well-intentioned, it got a little almost toxic where I felt like I couldn't, I couldn't be independent outside of that, right? So I think that was good for me to realize that and separate that a little bit and like be comfortably single and that like first year of being single, I really prided myself on being like a fun third wheel or a fun fifth wheel with my groups of friends. Oh, same. 100%.

So then that's good energy to have. But then I got real too comfortable with being single for a while. And then off of a sudden I blinked and I, you know, part of it is like going on The Bachelor and all that shit really really through my life upside down and oh yeah i remember the season um but you know before nali and i like got together you know i had flings and i dated people casually for a few months here or there but i was single for like a decade and it was it became harder for me to really know what it meant to like fall for someone and then all that aside too i just i think it's great that you had that recognition, that you had maybe a little bit of an unhealthy pull of why you

needed to be in a relationship, as far as the religious trauma and shame, my best advice for you to, like, just realize that that's all it is and kind of get over it, you're not going to burn in hell. I don't think so. I don't know. I'm not God. But like, you know, you seem like a good person. But like, I'm guessing if God exists and there is a habit, there will be a lot of things that, you know, he'll probably care about outside of like you, I don't know, getting late. But anyways, it's not. No, I, I have completely great. And I think, like, I don't know because I, like, so also when I graduated high school,

I went straight into, like, Bible school, like, did a four-year bachelor's there and then went straight from that to working in my church job. So there was, like, no chance to really explore out of that. And I had been kind of wondering, like, I had been thinking about leaving the job for a long time, but I was so passionate about, like, the youth that I worked with. So it was a really hard decision to, like, whether or not I was going to leave or stay. Well, one thing I want to say, though, and I mean, this I'm curious what Dylan has said about this is like, again, despite that I wouldn't change anything, my only caution to you is this like, listen, like, good connections are hard to find. And the happiest I've ever been is still in a relationship, you know?

Totally. And I think we're in a dating culture right now that we've gone a little too extreme with Miss Independent, Mr. Independent, and like, and I think it's okay to want to be in a relationship. And I think you want to find that healthy balance. Yeah, just be mindful about like all jokes aside. I wouldn't put a timeline. Like if you meet the right person, be open to pursuing it. So it's interesting you say that because I feel like that's exactly what was happening with this situation with this most recent guy who kind of ended things.

So I feel like, I mean, I'm not going to lie. I had a little roster going on for a little bit and it was good. But no, no one thought we were exclusive, whatever. so it was all healthy and good. But he was the first guy in a while that I was like, you know what? I don't need my roster. And I think that there could be a real connection here. And I'm not going to not explore that because I'm having fun being single. So he was really kind of the first person that I was like, yeah, like let's explore this. And then I got so excited about that. And it felt like he was talking about the future and such absolutes and feeling like it

was going to be really great. And then, yeah, I just kind of broke things off. So I'm worried now that I'm going to kind of go back into this like really closed off kind of feeling of like, ah, well, I'm never going to have feelings again. And I'm just going to keep having meaningless sex. So I don't know. You always got to be willing to get your heart crushed. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Everything you said, like you've grown so much from when you were. Yeah. So like, I think it's awesome that your 20s are different than your 30s. And like you've been on both sides of the spectrum and have so much experience of knowing this. So now it's just finding the happy medium. So like I think I think you're doing everything right like you I think you're probably just like it's like you said it's you have to get out of the frame Maybe right now you are dating like I don't know maybe it went a little too far that way and you still need to have your eyes on the prize if you want a relationship at the end of the day Because if you put that energy into the world that you're just a fuck boy or whatever then you're going to get that back

So I I think I think you've grown and you've shown that and like especially the religious stuff and all that stuff like I wouldn't doubt anything you've done now it's just finding that happy medium if your goal is to be in a relationship which for me I'm the same as Nick like that's when I'm happiest so totally so I think if that's the goal you take everything you've learned and and seek that the big thing is it's like kind of striking that balance wherever you are in life if you are single being able to appreciate that A lot of people are single. That's how I was in one of my 20s.

Like in between relationships, I was like just depressed. You know, I was like, I felt sorry for myself. I didn't allow myself to accept that maybe the relationships I were in weren't quite serving me because I was so afraid of that failure of things, right? Well, and that's, I do feel like this has been a time where I've actually like, I've really enjoyed it. So then it's interesting because sometimes I'll have friends who will kind of make comments and be like, oh, I think you actually do really want to be in a relationship, like, and almost

like because I'm going on dates and meeting people. But I'm like, I also just like meeting people. I love, like, I've actually gone on quite a lot of like first dates and we don't end up having a romantic connection, but we become friends. And I've just been having a lot of fun with that. Well, I think that's kind of my point. The key is to be both, right? Like, I think there's a lot of people who are like, they can't, it's like, either it's like the people who like, I just want to be in a relationship so bad or the people who are just like, I don't want it to anyone right now. I'm, I'm, I'm off the market. It's like, right. You can be both. You can be like someone who's like, listen, like, I, being in a relationship rocks. I like, I like having that person, but I'm not

desperate to be in a relationship so much that I'm willing to be in a relationship with anyone just for the sake of having that comfort and companionship. And so in the meantime, there are aspects of being single that are fun and enjoyable and the freedoms that go along with it and I'm going to take advantage of those freedoms in the meantime invest in myself and like you're going back to school and the more you invest in yourself as an individual level you don't want to give that up for just anyone right um it's having that purpose outside of a relationship and that's something I needed to find in my 30s was like to be able to like everything and like everything I have now Right. Like I love that everything I do is with a purpose for my family. But I needed to be able to figure that out of my own without, you know, I needed to do that, you know, before. Which is why when we were talking about our last caller about like, I think especially for guys, like I had to, I had to find my thing on my own.

Well, yeah, it's interesting you say that. Like, I don't know, even when I was kind of thinking about really moving forward with this one guy and trying to, like, try out exclusivity, I, like, I all of a sudden had this thought and I was like, yes, okay, like, I think I can really try and like there's not potential here. But also, like, I live in a small town, kind of an hour away from like the bigger city and I'm going to move to that city soon so that I can like be by the mountains and do a bunch of snowboarding and whatnot and like going back to school. And there's all these things that I kind of, I really. envisioned going into this era of my life as a single person. I don't know. Like I feel like that's what's meant for right now. And kind of as you said, I'm holding it with open arms. Like I'm kind of like, okay, I am enjoying being single right now, but I'm open to the possibility of being in a relationship for sure. But finally in a place where I don't feel like I need one.

And that's very refreshing. And I honestly think that came from just like really growing in confidence. Like I can't like the difference between now and a few years ago, like I also. thing came from like, I don't know, getting medicated for anxiety. That kind of like changed a lot in my world. And I feel like, yeah, just gave me a lot more confidence as a person, which is great. Everything you said I love. Like I genuinely think you're like, you're the example of when you look back of your life. You're like, I experienced life to its fullest. So I think you're on the right path. I love that. Thank you. I think as long as you move forward with open arms, like keep doing it, keep putting yourself first. You have all the confidence in the world. And then if that right person comes

along and it feels right, then go for it. Like, I really think you're, you're doing everything perfect for you. Oh, thank you. And so I guess, I'd love to know if you guys have thoughts too around like, because as I've said, like I, there is this like deep religious like shame. And it's so interesting because now I'm this person where I'm like, my frontal lobe is fully developed now and I, I know what I think about like interpretations of scripture and whatnot. I feel like totally fine about like exploring my sexuality but i know that people that i would like go to church with would not agree so that's hard because i like church is still something that i loved like as i said i'm still a person who like believes in the teachings of what i believe jesus was was someone who

like cared about minorities cared about the oppressed and for women and stuff like that and like that's the person that i loved so i'm kind of like should i feel weird about like still wanting to enjoying parts of church while i'm like living this other life or maybe i just need to or other churches, I don't know. I don't practice anymore. I mean, I'm someone who used to go to church every Sunday in my 30s. Yeah. That being said, I mean, my opinion is like, I think, yeah, listen, the reason why I was

generally turned off by religion is because I think humans are obnoxious people who weaponize religion to their own benefit. A hundred percent. And that's what I mean when I say like the American evangelicalism. Yeah, for sure. I have a problem with that, for sure. You believe in God. You also know you're not him.

right? Or her, whatever. So like, you know, just, just, I don't know, not to sound corny, but like, just do what you think is in your heart. And at the end of the day, when you're, when your time's up, so to speak, you'll find out how you did it. But in the meantime, just, you know, be a good person and prioritize your character. Your decisions matter in your life. Kind of to that point, my biggest gripe with very religious people, let's say this lump in, like, especially Christian, I'm from more familiar with Christianity and Christianity has like the seven deadly sins. And a lot of those people are very dogma, dogmatic about like things like sex or whatever. But they conveniently forget how pride, for example, is like one of the seven deadly sins.

And it's just like, humans aren't going to judge you. Well, I mean, humans will judge you, but their judgment doesn't matter. That's, that's it. Their judgment doesn't matter. Find your thing. Yeah. You, like, look at yourself from probably in your 20s when you were at your most religious. and you said you were oh yeah yeah and like you weren't that happy with where you were it sounds

like and now you're much happier in who you are and you're less religious that doesn't mean you're guilty of anything it doesn't matter if people are judging you it's what matters inside like you are you're the best place you've ever been and most of that shame comes from people because they will use that again weaponize it because and may say something to you or look at you a certain way maybe they don't approve of your lifestyle but the end of day happy people don't spend their energy judging others all that much, you know, certainly like, you know, so maybe it is a new church. Yeah, if all these people, yeah, if these people are knowing you and judging you, maybe it's maybe like the physical church of the people, but like if I ever go back to church, I'm going to

go back to Catholic Church, right? And now there's a lot of things that I don't necessarily like subscribe to or believe in or I'm certainly not going to change really anything about, I'm very comfortable with what I think about is my right or wrong. Like I have my compass, right? So if I did, if honestly, if Nali and I go start going back to church, it will mostly be because, like, kids and, like, community and things like that, I'm very comfortable with what I know is right or wrong for me. And I think that's all that really matters. And, like, I don't know, as I've gotten older and the reason why I stopped going to church, I just got a little bit less out of it. So it's more of that, you know, like, you'll have your own relationship. I think, you know, when we're younger and we're taught religion, it's very much what our parents teach us and this kind of.

and we do things because we think we're supposed to do it this way and we're told if you don't something's going to happen and you get older and you realize that's I don't know that kind of sounds like bullshit yes but your your desire to have a connection with a higher power I don't think if that makes you feel good don't run from that and you will find your path that fits you and you know no religion is going to you know unless you make your own you know

should just should just do your thing care about your character yeah and as long as you prioritize your character and how you treat yourself and treat others

I think that's what matters most yeah makes sense well hopefully this was helpful yeah no this is great all right thanks for the chat

well yeah thanks so much you guys great to meet you both awesome you too awesome you too see it bye bye yeah I definitely related

to the 20s and 30s yeah no she's great she was like i was like what's the issue here she seems so confident sometimes she would just want to like talk things yeah you know she um i would hang out with her and harvey i definitely related to like yeah i think you can still especially the i don't know if you're religious at all but yeah um as someone who used to be and not much anymore because people can get a lot of good things out of religion if that's if that's

the thing uh without being shamed but you know because again that's this human beings and she's still involved in the church in some capacity. I didn't know what, like, if she just went to church or if she worked at it. Well, because like a lot of people who are also part of the church will small judgments. Yeah, these little like, people will use religion to feel better about themselves.

Yeah. Yeah, she sounded like she just had so much growth in her life in the last 10 years and stuff. I think she just needed a check-in. Yeah, make sure she's on it. She totally was. Well, I love supporting brands that are redefining women's health in parallel is leading that charge with their approach to vitamins. For too long, we've been stuck with

generic one-size-fits-all vitamins, and the work has put on us to know what additional supplements we need to support our symptoms. Parallel is reinventing vitamins from the ground-up. As the first OBGYN founded vitamin company, they're defining a new era of women's health, one where your supplements actually understand your hormones, your life stage, and your unique needs. It's about time. Targeted nutrition for every stage of women's hormonal life, menstrual health, fertility, pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, and daily wellness. They have comprehensive vitamin packs, doctor-formulated routines, and convenient daily packets. Their daily powders, including protein electrolytes, sleep support, and greens powder.

They do more than the basics. And all of their powders are safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding, but designed for all life stages made with bioavailable ingredients, your body can actually absorb. When trying to stay on a vitamin supplement schedule, you want it to be easy. You want to trust it. And with parallel, you can do both. The cellular hydration powder for radiant skin and hydration boost is one of my favorites. It supports hydrogen, supports skin health, and moisture.

There's no sugar added. It's safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding. And exclusive for our listeners, new customers can enjoy 20% off their first order with code V-I-A-A-L. Visit parallel health.com. That's P-E-L-E-L-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com. Men, ladies. I know Natalie's always talking about skims and all the amazing products they have for the ladies, but now it's time to focus on the men.

Well, you have heard me rave about skim's underwear. I'm wearing it right now. I know it's a little T-M-I, but truly it's the best underwear in the game. game. I've worn all sorts of different kinds of underwear. I've tried them all and I've landed on skims is my absolute favorite. It breathes easy. It feels great. There's no bunching and you can feel the quality. It really can't be beat. Half of Natalie's closet is all the great things that Skims does for the ladies, all these amazing pieces and she looks great at them and I was getting a little jealous and I was so excited when Skims came out with a men's line. They have their custom five inch boxer brief

and their stretch three boxer brief. I honestly, I own them all. I love them all. They all feel great. There's a lot of different types of underwear that is not flattering for men, but with skims, every guy, like, will go up a couple points. I feel like Natalie looks at me differently when I'm in my skims. Guys like to unnecessarily hang onto the underwear, like it's like a second child. But when it comes to skin, the good news is it lasts.

They look great. They hold their form. I've had skims. I've watched them. I don't know how many times. They all look brand new. It's really incredible how durable the skims are. I can't rave enough about men's skim's underwear.

So while you're getting yourself a couple pieces of skims, be like a great partner and hook your man up with some great underwear. It's a win for both of you, I promise. Shop skimsmen's at skims.com. Let them know that we sent you after you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show in the drop-down menu that follows. How's it going? Good. My name's Taylor. I'm 33 and I'm dating a man who has a crazy baby mama. All right.

Tell us about this relationship that you're in. And is it, it's his ex-wife or? It is an ex-wife. They were together for over 10 years. They've been divorced for two years now. Okay. I'm the person that he's seriously dated since they've been separated. How long were they separated for?

It's been two years that they've been separated. How long you guys been dating for? It's very fresh. It's only been three months. How are you already feeling the impact of his ex? Um, so they have three kids together and they are 15. 50-50 custody. They're very involved with each other consistently. When we started dating, he explained to me that they had a very close-knit relationship because they were co-parenting so closely.

They were friends. They got along. They did things together, which I was totally fine with. No issues there. But I've been on speakerphone when she's called him and she calls him quite often and we call him for things outside of the kids. And that was kind of weird to me. You have like an example? An example would be she would call him and she would ask him to help her with things around the house all the time. Like, can you take my trash out? He would like mow the lawn for her and she would just call him and be like, hey, what size trash bags do you use? Since we've been dating it, he said that it's gotten worse.

But to add on context to that, she's always had a boyfriend since they've been separated and she's very dependent on men for what he's told me. and they broke up the same week that we started dating. And so she's been reaching out to him more and needing more things from him. And what conversations have the two of you had about his ex-wife? So, like, I would be on speakerphone. She would answer, he would answer her, and she would kind of snap on him and be very abrasive and rude. And, you know, ask inappropriate things to me for a relationship.

That's just for the kids co-parenting. So I brought up to him that it kind of made me uncomfortable, that he didn't have great boundaries with her. And if we were going to move forward into a serious relationship, he would need to set boundaries with her around that, which leading into, he did have that conversation with her and it did not go well. Were you, were you there when he had that conversation? No, no. I told him, I don't want to be a part of any of that. I want you to handle that with her. And so you know, it didn't go well because he just told you that? He told me. Okay. So she basically was like, well, you can get the F out of my house then and was threatening to take him back to court.

for child support. Because right now they don't do child support. It's 50-50. They cut everything half and half. He has them 50% of the time. She has them 50% of the time. So to your understanding, what did he say to her? To my understanding, he told her he's not the person for her to go to, for her day-to-day needs. They are co-parenting. That's it. Is your issue more with him in this? Or is it like you just want to avoid a sticky situation? Or is it with his ex that you have the issue with? I don't have an issue with him. I think he's handling it appropriately. I trust him wholly. I don't think that there's anything going on with him and her. She just has poor boundaries. And there's more to the story than just this. Like what? So he and her were actually hooking up after their divorce. I ended up finding out.

How'd you find out? So it just kind of came up in conversation. Just based on the way that she was acting, I asked him, she seemed kind of jealous and a little bit like she was trying to keep control in the situation. And I said, have y'all ever hooked up? post-divorce and he was like yeah and i was like okay when was the last time y'all hooked up and he said january of this year and i was like y'all have been divorced for two years and you're still like and in that time she had boyfriends like she cheated on two of her long-term serious relationships since they divorced with him multiple times yeah that's a that's a huge red flag for you no it is and it upset me a lot i was under this impression that you guys had a civil boundary relationship you told me

that there was nothing between you. And then finding that out later is very upsetting to me. I feel like I was owed that information from the get-go. I would have seen it as a major red flag. There's also a green flag in there, though. Like, he's super honest from what he's said so far. Like, he has those conversations on speakerphone with you. He's not, he's not, yeah. He's not trying to hide anything. When you asked them, he told you. So there's a lot of green flags in there, too. That's the thing is he is a giant walking green flag. Like, he is so transparent and so honest. And that's why he's had me so involved with her in the situation is because he knows the history between them two and he wants me to be super involved so I'm not uncomfortable with it but it's an uncomfortable

situation it's yeah well from what I'm hearing like best case maybe he's just like he really is a great great guy who has a really toxic ex but that is for better or worse this is the part that sucks is that like he is attached to this woman for the next how many years because of the kids My guess is like you're probably, I mean, I'm sure he's a swell guy. And maybe he's got some trauma from his divorce, which would be understandable. But he's not totally honest. I mean, like, there's a, well, he hasn't really lied yet. And.

Well, if she, if he said to her, there's baggage. There's nothing, sure. But if he said he's, there's nothing between us. Well, at the same time, it's like, what's worse? A guy who's still involved, like, he is willing to help his baby mama. It's like he's, he wants to do things like helper and stuff. stuff like that. That's better than kicking her to the curb. Totally. So like maybe he is a good guy. He needs to set boundaries, like you said. So I guess the question is because he tried to set boundaries.

And then she, he got this very toxic response that included some threats. Yeah. And that's the thing is it doesn't end there. She broke up with that guy and they got back together. And he's telling me that she has this mentality that she wants us all to be this happy like co-parenting family that all hangs out together and she's invited us to go hang out with her and her boyfriend and she tries to sit she wants us to all go like trick-or-treating together and i've told him that that does i am not comfortable doing that like i feel terrible being in this guy's face knowing she's cheated on him with him and he doesn't know and we're all pretending like nothing happened i don't want to implicate myself in that that's the least of your concern because like obviously i think we all agree

that her intentions behind this pod that she's trying to create are for only her benefit. Yeah, she's super manipulative. And when he tells her no and tries to set boundaries, she always comes back and threatens him with things with the kids like, okay, well, then I'm not going to do this for you anymore. And we're just going to go to court and I'm going to go for Chaucer. What is, what is she doing for him? Some of the things are like, so his job, he can't take the kids to school because he has to be up early. So she goes in the morning to his house and gets the kids ready, takes him to school. He goes, takes the kids to her house in the afternoons. They have agreements where it works out for both of their schedules.

Is she just going to stop taking her kids in school? She's going to basically say like figure it out it's not my problem. If you set the boundaries that are like, hey, I like you, I want to stay in this, but I will not talk to this girl. I don't want her in this life. Would you step up and help with the kids? For me, it's like our relationship is very fresh. Yeah. And it's insane that I'm having all these things thrown at me with her. I don't think these conversations are even inappropriate. We've been together for like three months. So, yeah, my question is like, good guy or not, is it, is this, is this situation worth it?

I do think it is worth it. I mean, like, I've never been treated as well as he has. Like, I, like, she totally, she totally messed up letting him go, like, honestly. Like, maybe so. Do you think he is strong enough to deal with his ex-wife? I think he is. You're very helpless in this situation. And to your point, it's not even really your problem or, you know, to fix.

It really comes down to how is he going to handle this. And, you know, depending on how toxic she really is, then the question is, is her bark worse than her bite? A lot of people to say shit, you know, it wouldn't shock me if she, you know, she's probably very used to just being loud and being messy and making threats. And most of the time, it's, you know, a lot of times, you're just like, I'm just easier not to argue with you and I can do it, you know. But now that he met you, and you seem to have a good thing going with him, and you guys hopefully are mutually excited about this relationship, if he's serious about pursuing something with you, he really is going to have to put his foot down.

Are you the first serious girlfriend he's had since the divorce? Yes. Right? So, like, up into this point, she's had this year, year and a half of kind of having her cake and eat it too. She's dated other men. Your boyfriend, you know, rightfully so probably had some trauma from the relationship. I mean, we've all had sex with our exes. I don't think you really have anything to worry about in terms of like whether he misses her still has feelings.

I think it's just easy to have sex with your ex. There's a comfort there. But she's been able to like, you know, do the whole, I don't want you, but I still want you to want me. And I, you know, I may not want to be with you. I may not want to be married to you. But I still want to control you and I still want to feel like I have power over you. And you are a symbol of things really changing for her. And if you're right were the fact that maybe there's some regret on her part for letting him go,

you are very much a reminder of that and you make it real because up into the point that you entered the equation there may be been a subconscious part of her that thought well maybe i can always get back the guy with him you know he hasn't found he hasn't replaced me and you are a replacement for that i also like i know i asked like if you would step in with the kids but and it's been three months so i'm like that i understand it's so fresh but from his perspective it's scary too because he has this system in place that's working and he's got this crazy ex that he's trying to push away but she's coming back is like where it needs to progress somehow like I guess like by you setting boundaries that's great but he needs to figure out if she blows up what's going to happen to me like

what's going to happen with the kids and it's very scary for him he sounds like a good guy and he wants the best for his kids so so it's just is three month is just a hard spot it seems like you guys are in such a good place but it's a very delicate like delicate situation you're in if we were to kind of like workshop these scenarios out or like role play right in a sense like question number one to dylan's point it's just like how crazy is this chick you know if he puts his foot down chooses you like he should and needs to to pursue a relationship with you is she going to choose the nuclear option take him back to court withhold kids from him just be really messy and toxic where good guy or not she is in a position to make his life a living hell

and he knows that yeah like even if it's a one percent chance he's like this could could happen. Yeah. It's scary. And that's, and like, if, if she goes nuclear, that's just, ugh. The hope is that, like, she's, her bark is worse than her bite. And most people, that's the case. Like, she sounds like an emotional bully, right? Who's just used to doing that. And sometimes bullies just need to be, like, told no. And he's going to have to really put his foot down. My guess is up into this point, her making threats has worked. It's been effective. He's, whether it's that 1% you talked about, he was this more like, yeah, whatever, fine, boy. You know, like, he's chosen to be happy over being right with her up into this point.

And now if he prioritizes your happiness, he can't prioritize hers anymore or hit as much. So then scenario two is, can he set these boundaries and just tell her no and see if she just adjusts and gets over it and kind of realize this is the new normal? And then maybe in the future there's a path for like, are you like willing to have coffee with this chick? to be like, hey, like, how do we actually get along? Well, that's my real, like, question. As of right now, I don't care to be her friend based on the way that she's behaving. And, like, I don't want to reward her toxic behavior. I don't want to be like, she's throwing a tantrum.

So let me just give in and try to meet up with her and be her friend. Because, like, he's been talking to her about all this and saying, like, she's not ready to be your friend. We're early in our relationship. She knows that she looks like a crazy baby mama. And she's like, I don't want. want her to think I'm just some crazy baby mama. But then she throws these fits every time he sets boundaries with her and it pushes me even more so away when I hear the things that she says

and the way that she talks to him. I think it's perfectly okay. Sorry, sorry to cut you off. I think it's perfectly okay that you set that boundary that you don't want to talk to her. I think that is so acceptable. He also doesn't have to like debrief you on every crazy thing she says. I've told him like I don't care to see the text messages. I don't care to like go into details about every little thing. I don't need to know every little thing. You just need to know that he's prioritizing you, that he is comfortable telling this woman know when she asks him to like mow her long. Because that's a test. It's all a test. She just wants to see what she can get him to do. And it's going in the right direction. Like it's not falling backwards. Like he's over at her house every day doing new

chore like is it's like as long as it's moving in the right direction and progressing and he's prioritizing you i think that's that's the next step and i think sometimes the hard part i think in situations like the these is him getting comfortable knowing that he doesn't have to explain why to her all the time he can just tell her no because the why is obvious they're divorced you're not my wife anymore that's the why so anytime she's just like can you do this for me can you do that like the why is i have a new girlfriend of my life yeah i've moved on and i think right now being a good guy that he is and wanting to be empathetic and and and things like that he probably always wants to talk her off the ledge and always wants to like make sure she's okay and that is coming from a good

place probably but he just has to learn that no is sufficient enough for her and then she's just going to have to like deal with it yeah if he's been taking care of her for 10 years it's a hard switch to turn off to be like, no, I'm just going to let her, let her drown. So it's like he still wants to help, but how can he just be better? And it's, it's probably a work in progress. And yeah, there's a good chance all this behavior from her is just that it works. And that, and then she won't choose the nuclear option. And then she fucked up. Yeah. And because the nuclear option is going to hurt her and it's going to hurt her kids. So the question is like, how shitty of a person is she potentially? Or is she just a little crazy going through a very tumultuous time in our

life where she maybe has some regret about her choice and now she's living in it. But yeah, it's, listen, like, no matter what, like, maybe he's worth it. But this is definitely a messy situation for you with a lot of unpredictable variables. I'm a risk taker, right? I've become more of a risk taker in my life. But I'm a huge believer in being upfront and honest with yourself about the risks you're taking, you know? And that's okay. You know, what is the fallout of these risks? You know, don't take the risk and pretend that you're not taking a risk in acting like everything happens for a reason and this is meant to work out, you know, like I think you have to acknowledge that this has some messiness to it. And there are variables at play outside of your control. And there's a

world where six or 12 months from now, things get real messy that that ultimately could affect this relationship and you have no control over it. And I think that's just important for you to acknowledge. I'm not trying to convince you to like leave it. But I think it's just something to just check in with yourself yeah i i just it's like a picture in my head i'm like envisioning him just balancing this shitty situation he got himself into and it's like if he pushes too far in one direction it's just going to fall apart so i think it's like giving him a little grace that it's not going to fix itself and just become perfect right away it's got to be a progress and like otherwise the house of cards will collapse so yeah i don't want to make the situation worse on him

like if I'm going to benefit the situation by just like meeting her and being fake nice because I don't know if like me constantly avoiding her is making the situation worse and that tension is building because like just the other day they had this conversation where he's setting boundaries with her and then she sends me a friend request on social media I would like my my two senses to not get involved I I I think the further she is removed from the situation the better, because then she, as soon as you enter the equation, she's going to start manipulating you. And it sounds like she knows how to manipulate? I think it's just how can we slowly remove her from this conversation. You have to be very good about knowing the why behind the choices you're

making the situation, because it'd be very easy for you to be petty and to get frustrated at her and to react out of frustration, right? So I think step one is to like make sure you're aligned with your partner and be like, hey, listen, I really like where this is going. I know this is a tough situation. You have my support. How can I support you in this difficult situation? I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Like when it comes to dealing with your ex-wife, like, all I want to do is like not escalate a situation. So like help me help you and like you know her better than I do. Like that's all I want to do, right? And then like just she's going to give you a lot of opportunities to want to react out of spite and to not do things, you know, and to stoop to her level and get

it sucked in the drama. And you're going to, you're going to have to challenge yourself to just be the bigger person. You know what I'm saying? So it's just like turn the other cheek and things like that and just like, yeah, kill her with kindness, be nice. She's going to want to pull you into the drama. And you're going to have to, on a regular basis, be like, I don't want to be right I want to be happy. Like, what's the least dramatic response to this situation? And what's the response that's just best for me and him? And not, she deserved, you know, like, you know,

because she's going to, it's going to be so easy. Yeah, because in that balancing act, we talked about the worst case scenario. The best case scenario, probably for your boyfriend is like, yeah, everyone's all loves each other. Like, everyone's happy. Like, the kids are around. You guys are friends.

Like, that is a possibility. 100%. You know what? You know what? She wants to hang out with you. because, you know what she's going to do? I guarantee it. She's going to, like, casually talk about them when they were dating together.

Oh, God. She'd be like, you remember that time when we were, blah, blah, bye. Oh, my God, it was so, you know, like. Yeah, avoid. It's, I guarantee it's going to happen. I think, again, it's three months in, like, there's no point in talking to her right now. It sounds like you and your boyfriend are in a great place together, and he's got to work through some stuff.

So I wouldn't talk. I, like, I wouldn't rule it out forever. I wouldn't say, like, I'm never going to. talk to this girl. But like for right now, I don't think it's healthy. Yeah, I feel like she is going through a mental crisis right now. Yeah, you're the crisis. You know, like, yeah, I guess so. Because he said that pre-divorce, she never drank, like, she never acted this way. And post-divorce, all this behavior is kind of new. And it's, since I've came around, it's obviously, she had a bit of a mid-life crisis. And then again, you, you were, because she's the, she's, she asked for

the divorce? I'm assuming, I think so. Um, because he, he's the type to like work it out. He's a all in kind of guy. When he's in, he's in. And if, if, if, if she asked for divorce, things never really got real until you showed up. Yeah. You know, uh, because up into that point, he was still there for her, you know, she had to take into. She could, she was still having sex with them. She was dating other men. And, and that's all different now. So. Yeah. I, I, and I think, again, if she's, in that mental clarity like you don't want that in your life like this is this should be fun for you to be with your boyfriend and bringing in that negative energy into your life isn't something that you are signing up for right now he's got to lead the charge and quarterback the situation with his ex-wife and you have

to support him i think things get real messy and toxic when i think a lot of people in your position would tell him how he's supposed to handle his ex-wife and and then tell him how what he's supposed to do to make you like the more you can make him feel supported and again just keep your way from the the drama, the better. Yeah, I really strongly believe that. Don't fall in the trap of making him feel like he's picking you. I mean, that should, obviously you want to feel that way, but he needs to control this situation. He needs to speak to her, set the boundaries, enforce the boundaries, and then make you feel comfortable that he's doing that in a way that you both have communicated makes you feel safe and secure in this relationship. Yeah, I think he's just been going back and

force with her too much rather than just being like, this is how it is and that's it. She's very persistent when she wants something. She just doesn't stop. She's brought the same conversation up multiple times. He's going to have to get good at ignoring her a little bit

and that's going to be a little uncomfortable for him because it's going to be scary because she's making threats right now. So there is it's just not something that's going to change overnight, but as long as it's progressing in the right direction. Like as long as he keeps those boundaries and is slowly backing away, I think that's a good sign is he can't jump all out at once right now because it's just too scary. Yeah. I feel like it can hold off all of this, me being involved with her until like we're maybe talking about like moving in

together where I'm going to be around her kids all the time. I don't see why this even needs to be really hashed out right now. Yeah. Just make sure you two are on the same page. Yeah. For sure. And it's like everything you said, it's a tough situation, but he sounds like you guys have a great thing going. Like, it really does. Like, it sounds like you, you see a lot of amazing qualities in him and he's feeling love for the first time, probably in a long time.

So it sounds like it's worth pursuing. No, yeah, for sure. I mean, I wasn't expecting all of this, honestly. But, yeah, I mean, I've probably dealt with worse situations. So I'm not that worried about it. think we'll be okay. Well, hopefully this was helpful. Yes, it was. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. All right. Well, thanks for the call. Keep us posted. We'd love to know what happens in the future with this. I'll try my back. All right. All right. Oh, it's a lot of fun, man.

Yeah. Hope you enjoyed yourself. That was like the beginning of a lifetime movie. I hope it doesn't turn into a lifetime movie. Yeah, I hope not. It's, um, divorce is messy, man. It's it's um sometimes you know life happens and every relationship is hard but especially now when we have river like um i'm very grateful right now i'm in a relationship where we fight hard for our relationship because like when you especially when kids are involved it's sad and it's so sad when you see and like sometimes you know it's people are better off not together but it's tough when kids are involved and you get these messy relationships it's all just added layers to everything yeah well thanks for coming matter

really appreciate you good luck on the rest of the way of dancing with the stars I'm expecting you in the finals I hope this this cast is so talented it's insane

it's like just remember it's not all about the talent yeah no for me I'm just remember to smile dude

I know you already told me for me I just I just want to keep improving that's it don't forget to have fun having fun improving

just like it's so damn fun it is one of the fun it's been fun to watch you man you're crushing it and yeah man I appreciate you

No, I'm still going to catch up. I appreciate you guys listening to. Don't forget to sending your questions at Ask Nick at the VialFiles.com. If you want to call in and have a question for us, Dylan is going to be the first of we'll have an occasional special guest for Ask Nick because I know you guys enjoyed having that from time to time. But thanks for listening. We will see you back tomorrow.

Thank you.