The Viall Files - E1015 - Carlos King, Wendy Osefo Arrested, Love Is Blind w/ Annie RHOM Reunion, Haitian Morticians & RHOC

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  So… by now you all have heard the news of Wendy and Eddie Osefo’s arrest and luckily we have icon, legend, genius Carlos King here to break it down! We also get into all things Bravo with him, including but not limited to: RHOC, RHOM, Haitian Morticians and lesbianism. Later, we get into Love Is Blind with Annie and talk to her about her relationship with Nick as well as clear up any controversial comments. Plus, airplane drama and what makes us wake up every morning! You won’t want to miss it.  “I’m floored! I know her and I did not see this coming…” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 1-855-646-8855 and leave us a message. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Wayfair - Get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays for way less. Head to https://wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair. Every style. Every home. Bombas - Head over to https://bombas.com/viall and use code viall for 20% off your first purchase. Nature’s Sunshine - Get a daily detox with Chlorophyll Stick Packs. Nature’s Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order plus free shipping. Go to https://naturessunshine.com and use the code VIALL at checkout. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @thecarlosking_ @annie__lancasterhairco @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell @the_mare_bare  

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What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick. Joined across from me is my wife. And beside to me is Sierra. Hey. And across from Sierra, Mary. Hi.

Beside Mary? What about me? We locked Lay in a room. Yeah. No true. My favorite thing about Leah is she'll be deep throating the mic and she goes, can you hear me? Wear your glasses, Leo.

Oh, called out. There we are. you go. Those of you who are watching, you will see Laria putting on her prescription sunglasses. Leah is more forgetful than I am. Well, no, I'm not forgetful. I just lose things. Okay.

Climsy? Are you clumsy? Yeah. Yeah, I'm clumsy. Lay and I had a meeting last week. Yeah, I got it back out. It was great. And Leah put her like business serious face on and then went to take a sip of water and spilt all over herself.

Oh, no. Laos strikes again. So it was at the beginning of a meeting. She's like, you know, because Leia and I have a very, you know, pretty casual work relationship. But this was like, she was like, you could tell her she was putting her like, all right, we're going to have a talk. Just tripped all over herself. She's like, respect me. Yep.

Anyway, we do, before we get into today's show, have a great episode lined up for you and a great week, quite frankly. Carlos King, you know, I'm from Bravo World. former Bravo producer and also just has his own hit podcast he's here to talk all things Bravo with us get some insight

on a little BTS about how that Bravo world is made that'll be a fun and exciting conversation we also have Annie from Love is Blind joining us

whose appearance on the show has been met with a lot of discourse controversy even she's made some insensitive comments about the queer community and we were just curious

of what she if she's reflected at all we are looking forward to having her on and hearing from herself. Toots. Directly from her.

Yeah, Mary's thrilled. We also, just an incredible week. Wednesday's going deep, but really excited for you all to hear this. Robert Irwin from Dancing with the Star, son of Steve Irwin, and his dancing partner, Whitney Carson is here. It's a great episode. Robert is such a dynamic individual. So fun.

And as you know, on going deeper, as we get deep with him, there will be tears. There will be laughs. obviously a lot of dancing with the stars insight but a lot about Robert's background and his family and just kind of just his life, a very fascinating person from a fascinating family and it was a conversation in an interview

Natalie and I really enjoyed and I'm really excited for you all to hear that you will not want to miss that. We also have some great guests for you lined up for Thursday, but we'll make that a surprise. One of my favorite things to talk about on this show is like I'm not dramatic. Am I the drama?

I don't, you know. I couldn't be the drama. Maybe I'm a little drama. Airline drama. Ooh, tell me about it. There's just like airline etiquette that I think is so interesting because everyone feels so different about it. Even just like having your window up or down or reclining your seat, the two inches that it reclines. It's just so interesting because everyone has a different take on it.

We were flying as we often do last week and a situation happened. But since the world seems to be. in tune with us. People magazine also over the week and wrote an article about this very drama that we were involved in. Oh my God, I need to know. I will say, I just learned about the windows up and down at certain times and whatnot. I was like, I didn't know. That's what's the best part about. Every time we talk about it, we know that like half the people will disagree with us. Yeah. Yeah. It's so divisive. But it's also so interesting because I feel like once I became a mom, I realized how, like, selfish I was being before I had kids.

Now, you saying that is going to trigger all the non-parents out there. Totally. But it's because I am a non-parent, so let's see. I'm a non-parent. I'm selfish. It's because you don't think, you travel and you think about yourself, right? You're like, well, I bought this seat next to the window. I want to look out the window.

It's sunny and bright. It's fine. I don't care that the mother in front of me is trying to put her baby asleep. So much so that when you see parents with kids, walking on the plane you're just like oh my god don't sit next to me yeah but it's like you don't even think oh maybe that baby's crying because she's overtired she is overtired and needs darkness to fall asleep and maybe i should put my window down just to let this baby fall asleep i don't know could be an option or like but no look out the window at the clouds right so anyway really bad

um we were yeah we were traveling from the lake back to laa thank you laa thank you thank you laa um and are, it's, we have to fly we have to do a connecting flight because of Lakehouse in the middle of nowhere. So we fly into Denver and our first flight is delayed. We're sitting on the aircraft for an hour because something's wrong

we're waiting on a maintenance guy. It's also just real pet peeve about the airlines. Why do they always do it this way? Especially when your plane's there, you're waiting for it. It's just sitting there. What a great time to do maintenance. What a great time to check on that plane and see if it's operational. But no, they wait to Everyone fucking boards, then the pilot gets on, and then they turn on the plane.

They're like, oops, it doesn't work. Sorry, we're going to call the maintenance guide. Not sure if he showed up for work today. He might be on a smoke break. I don't know. We'll find them. You'll be ready to take off in four hours from now. Literally.

Exactly. So we take off an hour pass when we're supposed to completely miss our connecting flight. And so we are just bumped to the next flight out of Denver to Burbank. And so, of course, that flight is pretty much full. So Nick and I get two middle seats separated from each other. Okay. Traveling with River and... Where is River sitting?

She's sitting with me, of course. Of course. She's sitting with me. She's still, honestly, she's still a lap child because under two, they're a lap child. Okay. Does she have to be, like, strapped into you? No, you just hold her. And let me tell you, I will no longer, we will be paying for her to get a seat.

No, thank God for that. Thank God for that, because this has been, it's been too much. She won't, she won't let Nick hold her. No, no. She won't let Nick hold her on a plane. Oh, shut up. If Nick tries to take her, she's like, Mama! So I'm like, just give her back to me.

I got her. You've got the imprint of a child. Like, she really likes me for clarification. But like it's always... She likes you on the ground. Yeah. But if your favorite thing in the world is always available as an option, you're never going to pick your second.

Second favorite. Just not. Anyway, so we board. we have priority boarding, families with children under two. Shout out United. Shout out United. We board first. We get on the plane.

And I, as walking on, I tell the flight attendant, like, we got bumped to this flight last minute. Like, what do you think is our best course of action and sitting together? I don't know why you asked that question. I don't know either. And she was like, just be really nice and ask someone. I'm like, I knew that. What you're expecting them to ask people for us?

I just wanted to clue her in, you know? I don't know. I wanted to keep her updated. If you see me walking around the aisles talking to people, if you want to back me up. Don't yell at me. Exactly. Be on my side. That was a setup, though.

She could have easily gone on that intercom and been, like, ladies and gents. We have a family. A family who needs to sit together. I don't think you should expect them to do that. No, no, no. So anyways, we sit in our two middle seats away from each other. I have River with me. The plane starts boarding.

A man comes and sits beside me. He sits at the window. And I'm like, do you want to switch with my husband? He's like, no, I'm okay. He's like middle-aged men. Two middle-aged men. Actually, the second one was definitely older than Nick. second one comes and I'm like maybe I need to approach this with like a different than just

be like hey do you do you want to switch with my husband for reference he had a wedding ring on I note that only because like what was the approach well I only just like this is not like a single guy you're really making this I approach this one a little different and it's like he had a wedding ring on and so she went freaky on it and he's just in now I just expected to maybe him have more empathy for, because he was married, got you. So I'm sitting with River on my lap and he comes and sits down and I'm like, listen, I know this is like the least desirable ask and I'm so sorry.

My husband is two rows behind me also in a middle seat. Would any part of you want to switch with him? I know it does not sound good at all. I just wanted to ask. Take some time to think about it. And he's like, okay. And then he's like, you know what? I'm going to be honest with you, I've had a long travel week, and I'd really prefer the aisle.

And I was like, okay. So any time I had put on, I think it was like Little Mermaid or something for River on the screen. And anytime they would announce something over the intercom, obviously the screen stops playing the movie. And River would be like, oh, Mama, Mama, and she'd kind of get upset. And I would just kind of like, let her. Like, so you're choosing an aisle beside a baby to enjoy your flight. to enjoy your life. To be honest, as a childless person who gets annoyed with children on planes,

if someone had offered me that, I would be like, yeah. Yeah, me too. I'm taking. I probably put on the switch. We get it. There's no good options. We're sorry we exist in this moment. The lady who sat next to me, I was, I asked, but I like, I just.

What was her response? She just said no. Her sister was also in the aisle across. She's like, I'm sitting next to my sister. Who didn't talk to her sister once on the flight. Yeah. More important than daughter and Nick was paying attention. But at least in her defense, her saying no was just still sitting next to me, as opposed to the man sitting next to Natalie.

I was disgusted by him. I see this wedding ring. I'm like, dude, bro, like here is an opportunity to just, you can feel good about yourself. You can feel like you did a kindness for someone else. I get it. How long's the flight? Two hours. Two and a half hours.

Yeah. Not even two and a half. We're sorry we exist. There was no good. options. You drew the like the unlucky straw sitting next to a mom with a child. And you have an opportunity. Yeah, it's a middle seat. But now you get to feel like a hero for the day. So I'm texting Natalie. I'm like, make his life miserable. I'm like just let her go. Just let her, I don't care. Let her rip. Let her just let her fucking go nuts. I'm just too enraged by like I'm assuming this is like a

dad, a husband. Like just like step up guy. You know, you know, you know, he was well dressed. He was like a, you know, he wasn't like some selfish teen in his early 20s or whatever. This was like a man who should feel like doing good for being chivalrous. Like, I don't know. That was my personal judgment of him. Anyways, this lovely gentleman like five minutes later looks at me, makes eye contact. I haven't noticed him at all. So it wasn't like looking around.

I had given up. And he kind of points to hit the man. He's like, would you like this seat? And I'm like, yeah, not sure where he's going. So anyway, he taps the man on the shoulder. he's like, I have an aisle, you switch with me, and he sat in my seat. His lovely name was R. He's like, like the letter.

Shout out R. If you were on the Burbank flight from Denver to, uh, I wanted to get a hold of them. I wanted to send him something nice. I wanted like, I was like, how do I ask him to know what the Venmo is? I really wanted to like send him something like, you know, honestly. So interestingly enough, People Magazine releases this article saying, should a solo plane passenger have to move seat so a family can sit together? A travel expert answers.

Should? Absolutely not. Yeah. It's literally like putting your cart away at the grocery store. There's no law. You don't have to. But you're an asshole. If you don't. If you're an asshole if you leave your shopping cart in a parking spot. You're just self. You're a selfish person who honestly like doesn't take those little moments in this world to like extend a small act of kindness, which is something this world fucking needs. And I was going to say it's a two hour flight. It'd be one thing if we're talking like 10 hours overseas. But like for two hours. By the way, after R, the hero that he is, switch seats, the other gentleman hung his head in shame for the entire flight. Because I kept looking at him, and he would not look at us. And so, I mean, I saw the comments under this post being like, no, people need to plan better. And totally, like if you...

Plan better. Well, it was like if your family, if you're not picking your seats together, like... No, because families who book flights, they don't want to sit together. They don't want to sit together. They're like, you know what, Russian roulette? Let's just see what the airline gets. us. Also, you guys were on a delayed flight, so it's not like you chose those seats.

Like, it's like, it's almost like the idea is better prepared. But the plan better people in the comments. I mean, like, again, they don't. It was also like if I, if I'm, you know, if I paid to sit in Comfort Plus, or if I paid for a window seat or if I paid for the seat and you're offering me something below what I offer. If you paid it, sure, but like, again, even more of a chance to be a hero. Comfort plus a little different. But also, I think something to know is like, anytime we've ever had to ask someone. If they'd switch with us, Nick is always like, I don't know if you drink, but like I'll, I'll buy you drink the whole flight. Like, I'll buy, you know, like, you know, like, I'm giving you a lesser seat. If you're listening to the show and you wouldn't know a man named R. Okay. Who describes himself like the letter. And he landed, like, please DM us. I'd love to send R something. Something very nice. Find this man. It was me.

As, as someone who flies in and out of Orlando International Airport constantly and has always viewed that. as a natural form of birth control. I just want to say that you guys have not made me feel any differently about that, but have given me a lot of empathy. Okay. So, like, if you're on a plane, what are you doing? Oh, I'm switching the seat. Easy.

But that's also just like, I would do that. I just don't want to sit next to a kid. That's what I say she's not switching to be kind. But she's switching because, like, I don't want to sit next to your kid. All right, what's in it for me? I get to feel good about myself. And honestly, objectively, like, I don't want to sit next to this kid. I'm getting my drinks paid for this whole flight.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't have to catch a cold. Yeah. No, and River, like, you know, it's a middle seat. She's tired. She's moving. She, her let, you know, like, I'm trying to get her to not kick the seat in front of her.

That's a whole new. One of us, when we asked that guy who said, no, she'd be like, all right, well, she has strep. That is what you need to say. Be like, sorry, she's sick and she doesn't know how to put her arm there when she costs yet. Yeah, we couldn't find a mask that fits her. So, yeah. Anyways. Should you switch seats?

No. But, you know, if you want to feel like a good person. Yes. Yeah. Also, on that flight, it was so cute. River pulls out the, like, the cards in the back of the seat, you know, and, like, acts like she's reading the little, like, safety features. Yes, of course.

And she pulled out the one that has all the snacks and stuff on it, like, that's on the plane. And Nick and I are talking about something. I'm not really paying attention. And she's pointing going, mama, mama, mama, mama, mama. So I look down and she's pointing at the little. Small Diet Coke. That is mama. That is mama, yes.

We'll see where this goes. Before we get to Carlos King, I'm curious. This is a slightly deep question. Oh, shit. What would you say you live for? Oh, my God. Ooh, I have one. Whimsie.

No, but seriously. Like, when you wake up, like, what is your, like... I mean, now I'd say my son. Yeah. No, I'm just... But, yeah, like, what is the thing that... Like, what's the point of your life? And I mean that, you know...

Oh, my God. No, seriously. I truly, when I said whimsy, I, like, fully mean that. What do you mean? Whimsy is just, like, the joy of silly things around you. To me. Yeah, like, that is what every single day, like, if I... That's what drives you.

It's what drives me. I've, of just, like, something that I'm like... I definitely think, like, before River, it was, you know, you, it was, like... True, but also part of, like, I think when you're younger is just figuring out what that thing is, you know? It's, like, finding out what it is that drives you. Like, why do you care about, you know, what do you invest in? Of course. I was like, I think about, you know, obviously preparing for my future and trying to get all of my ducks in a row.

So it's like, but also waking up every day with filled of gratitude that this is what my life is. So if it were to end tomorrow, that I didn't, I don't feel like I made any mistakes or that I have any regrets about it. What about you, Justin? I mean, I'm raised to, like, think very, like, ancestrally. So, like, we, like, I am grateful for my ancestors for what they've done. I'm also setting up my generations ahead of me. So I think it's very much, like, living for. the future or like living for my family and the future i just think it's a good question we should

ask ourselves more of you know like why why do i get up like what do i believe in like what is my purpose like people need like i do gratitude journal every morning so it kind of makes me have to like think about how i'm going through my day and like what i'm appreciative of from the start and then it's like you reflect at night i do find that like usually when that thing is something other than yourself or your own personal happiness like you're you're much happier so true yeah so true I'd watch SNL with my best friend and then we were just watching like YouTube and like whatever afterwards and we watched Kate McKinnon on hot ones and weirdly and the hot sauce made her get really deep and she's like incredibly smart and the way she was talking about what makes her happy and like the reason she does what she does is just because she was like I find such joy and like these silly things and all I ever want to do is make is like connect with people that also find the same joy and the same. silly things. Yeah.

And I think that's all, anyway. And I was like, that's beautiful. That's exactly how I feel. So Kate McKinnon, please come and be whimsical. Oh my God. Yeah, please do. Give us that whimsy. It rock.

Well, think about that anyways while you're listening in the car. Obviously, we've talked about Chris Jenner and her insane facelift. And honestly, I'm thankful. No, it's so good. She's giving hope. And honestly, she did a transition with a brief. a carpenter and it was like her and she did it with i guess chris appleton they were changing her hair to like blonde i think or something she just did an event with chris appleton okay so she was doing this

transition and she had no makeup on and she and then she transitioned to makeup and she looked so good someone in the comments or someone said somewhere that they stepped on her back to pull her face back and they so did like it is so snatched don't know but it's crazy because like up it up until i thought even today, like when it came to like plastic surgery, less is more and more is less. I mean, she's like looks 40 there. It's crazy. And not like, her neck is perfect. It's, it's, it's stunning. Because usually like you have that much plastic surgery and you're over like 60, it's just, it's a, it's botched. Did she announce who her doctor was or did people figure it out? No, that's the thing. The one thing everybody's saying is like, doc's your doctor or like give the biggest promo to that doctor. Or are we sure that this is all surgical?

It almost looks too good to be surgical. I mean, what else would it be? I don't know. AI. No, I'm just kidding. No, but it's kind of like even when Lindsay Lohan kind of came back and it's like, who's your facialist? Who's your injector? It was Lindsay.

It was Chris. It was Donatella. Yeah. Versace. She fixed it a lot, though. No way. No, it was Madonna. Well, Madonna too, but like Donatella also like had like, she fixed her face.

It was like the best facelifts. Here's my thing about Chris Jenner is that. I want to know if Chris Jenner, I saw a picture of her next to Kim Kardashian, and I just am still unsure if Chris Jenner looks absolutely fantastic or Kim Kardashian looks terrible. You feel like she looks bad? No, it's just they look the exact same. I was going to say, I saw the photo that you're talking about. You know what I mean?

They look almost like identical. Yeah, well, that just means that Chris has done remarkable work. I mean, I don't know, for all the anti- maybe botch plastic surgeries was like what kept people saying because it was like, you know what, I have a short window. I can maybe extend this for maybe 10 more years, but at some point I just need to give up on physical

appearance. So I will be putting him under the knife. She said, I bet your counsel. And I will be the one pulling his stepping on his back. Yeah. Well, I just wonder sometimes, and I don't mean this in any way to critique, because I think everyone should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with their face. And I do

think Chris General looks amazing. But I do wonder when you get the way obviously your body is still aging at a natural rate but when you don't know what she looks like naked no that's not what i'm saying you want to know if it no i'm talking about her internal organs i'm saying that when you like look at your face and you kind of have this perception of your age right i almost wonder if it's like this weird uncanny valley thing of you see yourself in a different way and then well as you age and like natural stuff happens to your body like it might just like mess with your brain uh i actually argue the opposite i think i think I'm a big believer.

Well, I'm a huge believer that, like, the more you live young and act young will literally keep you younger. Your spirits, yeah. Yeah. My grandfather was 96 when he died, and he was, like, fully there up until 94. And he says that it was because, like, he woke up every single morning and checked the stocks and, like, went and played bridge with his friends. And, like, he didn't just sit in front of a TV and, like, rot his brain. He was, like, exercising his brain and, like, talking all the time. Recently, like, studies have come out because they're, you.

used to be this always kind of saying, as you get older, more and more brain cells die. Like, it's like you're born with a limited number of brain cells. And as like everything you do, you're just killing brain cells until you're just like a vegetable by the time you're like 90. And that's just not true. To the day we die, our brain keeps producing more brain cells. But if you don't use it, you lose it. Right. So after like seven or 10 days. So like as you get older and you get lazy, you sit around and you're just like, I don't want to do anything. You don't look at the stocks or you don't have like a purpose. You're waking up. up for or you know just whatever it is that keeps you younger you lose it so like so i would argue

like the more you look in the mirror and you feel young yeah it's like a psychological thing you'll your body your internal organs will actually keep up with how you see or present yourself to the world modern menors and presented by nick do you guys remember christmas dinner a couple years ago when i was joking with you natalie about like getting plastic surgery and nick goes you don't need I was like, I think I went it all the time. I'm like, that was sweet. He has brought that up to me many times. Nick has some sweet moments, for sure.

When they are sweet, you remember them. I have friends who would be like, one time I came over and Nick was like, you look really pretty today. Or like, love your shirt. It's like, they're like, it was so genuine and so nice. He's nice, yeah. Because I don't say things. I don't mean.

Yeah. Like I don't fill you with nonsense. When I first started working here, Nick was always like, you wear really cool t-shirts. It's when I was like, yeah, I do? Yeah. And every morning, you're like, do you think he's going to think this one's cool? Do you think he's going to think this one's cool?

That's why you don't give out insincere compliments. I agree. That's why it's like, once I'm like, oh my gosh, you look so pretty today. It's like, thanks, you do too. Don't say that if you don't get it. Just take the compliment. No, I don't believe you. I'm sick.

Breaking news, Gary Turner, your golden bachelor are not so golden as people are becoming to realize. And, you know, certain we have speculated along. time that maybe Gary Turner was not so golden. But apparently he's coming out with a tell all book, which is apparently what you do in your golden years. I thought he'd be like sailing. Yeah.

Retired. From the television. Golfing. Not even. Not knitting. Living in Naples. I don't know. But he's writing a tell all book. Because not too long ago, apparently he found love again, so pop off. Happy for you. Yeah. It also feels like a weird thing to do once you've found love

and you're in a great relationship to like go back and write a tell This is the year of tell-alls, but it's like the people that are single. Is it a tell-all about his experience on The Bachelor? Is it like a memoir of his life? The interviewer asked, are you worried at all about her, meaning Teresa, reading the book? And he said, I'm not worried. I think she should be worried.

Which, ew. Yeah. At this age, why? He also said, after being asked, do you wish Teresa the best? He said, we all have goals in life. We all deserve to be happy. So I certainly wish the same to her as I would all of the women and myself

and that she finds her path to her full happiness. There's nothing wrong with embracing a career like she does. Maybe that's her source of happiness. And I think that would be wonderful. Sorry. I just wish I would have known that. Well, because she didn't love pickleball as much as you do. No, no, no.

What is the difference in her career and his career? I know. He doesn't have one. The way she does is a shady. He doesn't. But he's writing a tell-all book about. about her so she's killing it and saying she should be worried thinking about sparkle megan and jordan he can't hand like jordan was up front about his feelings about like with the money and stuff

and whatever and then you have someone like gary who like can't handle it i mean he's older yeah we don't know if it's the same situation i don't know it's just a wild quote just to say i don't i'm just like the current golden bachelor has enough heat on him right now from the shit he said from a podcast like Gary, you could have gone and lived your life and we were thinking about you or talking about you and now you just kicked up all this stuff or I'm like, oh wait, they both sucked. Are you guys watching?

Is anyone here watching? No, the second we stopped, I was good. I was like, I'm not for free. I wish you all the best. Are you? No. I don't feel like, and I don't, no one's like. No one said a word.

It's like the same as, um. I did see his billboard though driving down like LaBreya or something. And I was like, oh, that's still up. Are we almost done with the season? I don't know. No, it just started. It just started, yeah. Thank God, Taylor Frankie Paul.

Yeah. She's our only hope. I hope you're doing well, Teresa. We're thinking of you. Yeah. All right. Well, now it's time for Carlos King and to get into all things. Bravo.

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slippers, teas, and underwear. The most comfortable socks, slippers, and teas out there made from premium materials that actually make sense for this time of year. Obviously, you guys know we just finished the lakehouse, so we're trying to spend more time up there as much as possible. And as the season turns, it's really our cozy place up there. We're always around and sweatpants and bombus socks are a must have on our feet because they're just they give it a sense of comfort security but like everything that bombus does is great and if you're not just like thinking about being cozy any type of sock occasion bobbus has you covered if you're dressing up it's the perfect sock for your husband if he like is always dressing up for work or for you ladies

they have something you know professional for you and it's not just socks their slippers are so chic and so cute. I have a red pair. Their Sherpa line Sunday slippers are just exquisite. Not only will it feel good on your feet, it's going to feel good for yourself. And the best part for every item you buy, Bambas, donates one to someone experiencing homelessness. Over 150 million items have been donated thanks to customers like you. Head on over to bombas.com slash V-I-A-L and use code V-I-A-L for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash V-I-A-L, code V-I-A-L at checkout. Well, welcome Carlos King to the show.

Yes. Hello. We're so excited to have you. Lots to get into, obviously, all things, Bravo. But for the people who, I mean, I think most people in the Bravo sphere know who you are. But for the people who don't, give us a little background about yourself and how you've just been, all the different ways you've been involved in covering Bravo. So I was the executive producer of the Real Housewives of Atlanta. In addition to a producer for the Real Housewives of New Jersey, I did the first two seasons, which some say are the best.

Yes, they do. That's my Bravo background. And I did like NeNe's Wedding Special, Candy's Wedding Special, so many other things. And now I'm the owner of my production company, King Noreen Entertainment, and I produce shows. I produced the number one show in Oprah Winfrey's Network called Love and Me. Marit Huntsville. Yes. It's been good.

And you got Teresa's table flip? Oh, do you guys know the story behind that? No. I don't. Oh, well, listen. You have a mic. You're like, smooth the tea. So I was Teresa's producer.

This is season one, as we all know. Long story short, I was also Dan Gale's producer. And Dan Gale decided to bring the book to the finale dinner. But Dan Gail wore an LBD. that's a little black dress, Nick all the straight guys who's listening. So she could not carry the book. So she handed me

the book and I crawled underneath the table tap Dan Gail's ankle and handed her the books. When you watch the show, you see her like reaching down and she grabs the book from me and then she placed it

on the table and the rest is history. Wow. So you were under that table. You were under that table. You helped it flip It's not big in the closet I was under the table Yes And once it flipped

You were under there like this Yes I'm like crawling Like all by knees Not the good kind And I was just like getting out of the way And then Teresa flip the table And she became a superstar The icon that she is

As someone who's produced housewives In your opinion What makes the perfect housewife? I say this all the time to the reality stars to people and they think I'm bullshitting. But honestly, it's the authenticity. You have to be yourself

because the audience can see when you are trying to become, whether it's iconic and you rehearse your lines or when you're trying to be, you know, this rich persona and they know that you don't have that lifestyle. Teresa Judice, Nini Leagues,

two women that I've worked with, those are two women to me who are like, the godmothers of Housewives because separate individuals but they have the same quality and that is they are who they are 24-7. And that's the easiest answer

because honestly it's the right answer. Being yourself is the key to it. Yeah. So true. I mean, I feel like every moment we have of Nini Leaks is such treasure. It's such gold. Like, is there,

are we ever going to get her back on our TV screen? I hope so. Listen, listen, I'm a hopeful guy I'm wishful. At the end of the day, she is back working with NBC. She's like co-hosting the Oscars red carpet, the Emmy's red carpet, and she's doing all those things. She doesn't need it.

You know, but I will say this. I need it. I am obsessed with Linetia Monique Johnson leaks once removed. And what I will say is she is Atlanta Housewives and I would love to see her back on that franchise because she helped build it. Yep. So true.

Before we get into all of the headlines and the recaps that we have, Wendy. I do it. No, so I was flying in late last night, early this morning, rather. And of course, I'm like, that damn Nick, perfect timing. Perfect timing. We called Wendy and we were like, could you? Get arrested.

Go ahead, Natalie. No, I mean. For the people who don't know, just give a little context. Let's, Justin, do you want to break down? Yeah, I mean, Andy also just said something on Radio Andy. So we have that statement as well we can into. So essentially we know Wendy and her husband were indicted on multiple charges. So Wendy was indicted on seven counts of insurance fraud.

From Potomac. From Potomac. Again, for the people who don't know. So this is Wendy Ocefo, the professor, the doctor, the woman we all know. Wendy was indicted on seven counts of insurance fraud, eight counts of conspiracy insurance fraud, and one count of false statement to a police officer totaling for 16 charges. And then her husband, Eddie Ocepho, was indicted on 18 total counts.

with one extra count each on the insurance fraud and the conspiracy insurance fraud charges. And, I mean, there's so many different details to this, but essentially to condense it. And Carlos, you can chime in. Wendy and her husband went on a trip to Jamaica. They came back and then they reported to the police and insurance that they had been robbed.

And the money totaled to around, I think it was over $450,000 in loss of property. And essentially, because it was such a large number, and key detail, they had a ring on their door. and then they also had ADT systems inside of their house that had cameras. No footage was caught. Did they forget about that?

Yeah, what? So nothing was caught. There wasn't, I think it was 2,500 in damages to the property. So of the break-in. Wasn't it like a screen taken off a bathroom window or something? I think there was a couple things that... Upstairs. And they were saying that there was like nothing that showed that there was somebody had walked in.

Yeah. So listen, I did a whole deep dive on a Friday. I spent like nine hours. Hey, Kim Carth, Ashley. I'm in the law school, two girlfriend. I spend nine hours seriously because my audience who are called the raindrops, they were like, get on your podcast and talk to us now. So everything you're saying is 1,000% true.

The allegation was that the burglars entered the home on the second floor of the home. So when the cops came over there, they're saying that the grass was just cut and that even when the cops arrived, they left so much debris and like, you know, stuff on the ground. the footprint, that in order for someone to break in the second story window, they would have to be, they would have to land on top of a toilet seat. And they said the tallest seat was down, but nothing was on top of it. No footprint, nothing. They said that the only way this would make sense to them is that the robbers would have had to clean up after themselves after robbing the house and that it was so difficult in this big house to break in the second. second floor, that those were the spidey census that went off immediately. Like it was giving, it would require a master criminal, but everything about the scene said amateur almost.

And a letter. Yes, it was, it was, it was, according to them, it didn't seem possible that a robber would break in the second floor and not leave debris behind. Do you know, Wendy? I do. My birthday was October 2nd, and the beautiful Wendy texted me last week and gave me. a great birthday wish. She is somebody who I do know,

who I adore, and we talk often. Like, we actually talk often. What are your personal thoughts on that? You know, look, you're innocent until proving guilty. We all know that. I will say,

my, one of my employees named Jamie, he sent me the article from this, like, weird source early Friday morning. And I'm like, Jamie, stop sending me stuff. That is incredible. I don't need this bullshit.

And then literally 90 seconds later, I'm like perusing through Twitter and I saw TMZ posted. And I said, Jamie, I'm an apology. Continue sending me non-credible sources, please. I was floored. Even now, just to be honest with you, Natalie, I'm floored. I know her. I did not see this coming. This is an educated woman.

Four degrees. Eddie is a lawyer. He has a business. They have three children. It's hard for me. I'm being completely honest. It's hard for me to grasp the idea that they would do this. And I'm having a hard time justifying, though, the alleged facts from the police and the insurance companies.

It's not looking good. It's not looking good. And this is, just so you all know, because you may not know this. The police investigation, of course, saw everything I explained. But this is where things became worse for them. Allegedly, they're saying that they double-dipped in the insurance claim. Triple-dipped.

Triple dips. Well, what do they mean? They filed three insurance claims. Yes. Jewelrous Mutual, Traveler's insurance, and home-site insurance. And one of the things was this ring, this diamond ring. the, I believe they're, I forgot which insurance company was, but one insurance company actually gave them the money for this lost or stolen ring, well, let's say stolen. But they also allegedly claimed to the jeweler's mutual insurance, the same ring that was already paid off two weeks later.

Yeah. And that's when they were like. And that's giving kind of intent. Yes. And then allegedly, allegedly. Allegedly, they tried to say 57 items were stolen and that a few of those items the police found were already returned prior to this alleged

burglary. Yeah. And the police are fighting this out because they're working with insurance because it's such a large number. And they're also saying that wasn't it that she was seen wearing the ring after claiming it was stolen? So allegedly, they're saying that the wedding man that they claim stolen where the person, the insurance company gave them the $25,000 for it that she was seeing wearing it in a recent photo on Instagram. Now, I will say this. I will say this. Instagram isn't always an accurate timeline.

I will say this. Now, could she possibly have bought the same ring with the money? Yes. Possibly. Possibly. Could she have posted an old photo? What's crazy, though, to me is that this is the woman who, on the first episode, of Potomac this season

is like Eddie is doing so good he's in this new business it's thriving like we're doing so well and talking about just like how financially stable they are well it is fascinating and I'm curious what you think Carlos Cynthia our queen Cynthia

Bailey came in on Friday to record their episode she says hi by the way I love her and this the news had just broken about Wendy and Cynthia and I were just kind of talking about just like just in general I would say this about anyone but like if if you're going to do criminal activities, stay off the TV kind of thing. It's just like it's not to contend any type of criminal activity, but it's almost shocking

some people's willingness to be so publicly in, you know, in the public image, you know, we all know that like if you're, you're going to be made example of, you know, potentially, especially like a reality TV star, right? Because I think they get, you know, there's like major celebrity, there's reality TV star. And I think there's several examples of reality TV stars being made an example of, you know, by the IRS or you know other government agencies which then like begs the question and you know Wendy and I'm curious but like just in general because like Wendy certainly isn't the first Bravo celebrity to you know be in trouble with the law so to speak there's obviously a type of pressure

in specifically Bravo world to like live a certain lifestyle to act a certain way and this type of of alleged crime is giving we can't keep up with a certain lifestyle and now we, you know, our business isn't as doing well as we claim on TV that it is. And we certainly don't want to be called out for lying about a certain lifestyle and that pressure. And this is in any way condoning if they are guilty of what they did. But like, do you feel like that plays a role in this alleged crime, the pressure of keeping up with the images that is required specifically of its Bravo celebrities?

100%. I even did an episode on podcast that's dropping next week about the pressures of reality stars when it comes to living up a certain lifestyle, especially when you are a real housewife. Because let's be clear, sister wives ain't trying to, like, look fabulous. Do you know what I mean? Like, come on. Like, Duck Dynasty, you can live in a trailer. Yeah, like, whatever, you know, like, 1,000-pound sisters.

They don't care about, like, looking a certain way with the glamorous lifestyle. There is this pressure, and I spoke to a former housewife over the weekend, and she and I were talking about the fact that if you look at what you're going to be. you said, Nick, let's look at the global standpoint of women in Hollywood, so actresses. They don't have to pay for glam out of pocket. The studio pays for because they're promoting their film. When you see someone like Jennifer Aniston go on Jimmy Fallon, go on the view to promote the morning show, it's the studio who's paying for her wardrobe, her stylist, and everything, you know, glam, all these things. Yeah. And to that point when you're like, because we'll often try to

get certain type of guess. Like, you realize that they don't want to do press because, like, they won't be glamed and they don't want to pay for their own glam. So they will only do press when the studio is paying for that glam. Ding, ding, ding. Yes. So when you are a real housewife specifically, I want the world to know this, those women, 95% of them, they pay for glam every time they shoot.

And glam costs how much on average? Nicholas. For me, for me, who is used. using not, I'm sure, who these women are using. Go ahead. 500. That's just for makeup. Just for makeup. That's just for makeup. Just for makeup. 500 for makeup. 500 for hair. Yes. And then think about it. They have to look great. Yeah. They get styled. It's not a do and go. But it's also not a do and go to do and stay. No. They're staying throughout the whole filming in case they need to touch up. Oh, for sure. Yes.

And then on top of that, God forbid, because I've been cussed out before by housewife, like, Oh my God. Why didn't this make air? I bought this outfit. I wanted to be seen. They get upset if they bought an outfit for a particular scene and it never sees the light of day and they're like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm wasting my money. I'm wearing this shit again the next season. Yeah. It is pressure. It's pressure because

the sort of anecdote of the real housewives is the fact that you are a fabulous woman. You live behind the gates. And I think a lot of those women, unfortunately, fall into the prey of trying to impress each other, impress the audience. And that's why I said earlier, when it comes to Teresa and Nini, just be yourself. Like, honestly,

Be yourself, and the audience will ride for you. And even to that point where I remember Monica's season of Salt Lake City, I remember I think people found her so endearing because she was talking about the pressure of like, I'm going to buy a purse that I don't need to buy, but I want to keep up with the Joneses. And for some reason, that made her so much more endearing to the audience because we're like, no, you don't have to do that. We like you. We like you how you are.

I like you with coach. Yeah. I feel like, and weirdly enough, I just, it's almost seems like some of the Bravo celebrities haven't kept up with. how fans have changed their expectations because I think just in general through social media, we appreciate authenticity more than we appreciate like the idea of something. And I really think the monoc is a great example, but like the housewife who really is like, I can't afford this shit.

I think we would, we would rally behind that person a lot more because we'll look at the deretes of the world and mock what we perceive is a person who clearly can't afford this image she's trying to portray. It's just not possible for P.K. Like, he's the manager of Boy George, and I haven't seen Boy George drop a number one hit in decades. And there's just no way. They can't, like, it's just not possible.

No, it's insanely impossible. And that's why, listen, the crazy thing is, and I'm sure you all saw this, when it was revealed that Wendy and Eddie were arrested for allegations of fraud and how they lied allegedly about their burglary, everybody started talking about P.K. and Doree. And we're like, now, wait, a second. We weren't too

believed that this happened. And look, I will go on record saying this based on what I've seen on the show. I do think it happened and that I could be the minority in that. I believe they were robbed. Doreet's disposition has changed. Her personality has changed so much that I don't think it was fake. And look, I think based on the crimes that happens in LA, unfortunately, they're cracking down on this crime and I think it would have been revealed if they were not telling the truth. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree.

that Doreet 100%. You don't think Doreet knew. I'm with you on that. I'm like, I'm on Garselle's story where I'm like, I don't think Doret knew. I think Dorete thinks that she was robbed. Yes. Yes. P.K. wasn't here.

P.K. conveniently overseas. And he was like, you know what? Don't hurt her. I'm just like, I just don't know the whole like the whole retelling of the story where it's just like, okay, and then we left the phone next to the front gate. Like what? But it's not. It's less of that for me, Sierra.

And more of seeing Doreet. so visibly shaken. She has visible PTSD and then P.K. being like, all right. It's not that big of a deal. Well, it's also like, let's move on. It's the potential sloppiness. Like, if you're going to double dip

in the sense that you're going to have things allegedly stolen from you, file the insurance claim, but still be like, no, I want that shit back. You don't get to keep it. Like, here's a couple bucks for helping me. Or if P.K. allegedly did this. He was like, it's a shit she bought.

Honestly, I, just need the cash, you know, where it's just like, no, you steal it, you know, but I do think sometimes, you know, you get, it's just like real greedy, real sloppy. And depending what your situation is, you know, you get, the more desperate you get, the messier and sloppier you get. But it's, yeah, but it is the pressures, though. And that's why for me, look, if this turns out to be true, if this turns out to be true by Wendy, I will feel sad that they felt the need to do something like this because I'm telling you this for sure

and I speak to this not only as her friend but as a fan of her and Eddie if this turns out to be true we don't need we don't love Wendy because of her lifestyle we love Wendy because she's smart because she calls it like it is and she tells it like it is and we love the marriage between her and Eddie and we love the family

so that's why I am sort of in this mindset of like, I just have to believe that something else may have occurred that we're not hearing just yet. Candice Dillard said something similar where she was saying, the Wendy we all know is a successful business woman, her and her husband, and like they supply jobs to other people. They're not just successful people. Yeah. Yeah. And like we have to believe that. And we're all finding out the same data at the same time. But like we have to believe that maybe she is innocent until proven guilty. What did Andy say about it? So Andy, he basically said, like all of you, I found about the charges against Wendy and Eddie Oceph on Friday morning.

There's not much I can say. I know nothing of the charges more than you guys do. I'm really sad about this. And you know, I'm a Wendy fan and she has been a great housewife and a great role model. She's always led with education and her solid family values. And so I'm really thinking about her is what he said. Yeah. Have you reached out to her at all?

Natalie, with the question is, I love you. Great question. I did. I did. I just texted her. and, you know, I did preface it by saying you do not have to respond to me. Yeah.

Like, I don't, I'm not looking for a response. But I did want to reach out to her to let her know that I am thinking of her. I love her. And, you know, listen, your innocent of proving guilty is, it's honestly how I feel until we hear more. Yeah. Do you reply? No. Go ahead.

I'm curious. Well, I told her not to, so. Yeah, exactly. No, you did. You said, don't text me. back. Don't text me back. I'm here for you. I was to say there are a couple more details if we want to close the loop on the Wendy conversation. Wait, there's more since Friday? Well, just ones for our audience listening since we haven't talked about it. One of the things that in the press

conference they were citing the cops is that in the insurance claim there were memos of Eddie requesting to know if there were additional high value items we can add to this inventory. So implying that maybe he was requesting he had more to get more money. They were also, they obviously were released on bail for 50,000 and the wife swap episode with Wendy was pulled. Yeah. Wasn't there only four of those? It's four episodes and Dr. Wynn's episode was the premiere episode. The first one.

So they pushed it a, yeah, they're pushing it a week. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious what you, if you think that being done by Bravo is like an asset to her in the long run for this case? You know, listen, I think Bravo rightfully so has to look at their brand and what the brand of white swap

is. You do know what I mean? If this was the Real Housewives, as we saw in Premier Potomac, like they opened up with Karen being released from jail after her DUI conviction. So I think that brand is much more suitable for, you know, continue on with the story. I think Wiveswap is the fact that Dr. Wendy is in someone else's home. Yeah. And what that may appear in terms of like the uncomfortableness from the family who was like, you guys have this woman in our house who allegedly did this and the distraction from a

brand new series that they're trying to launch. But yes, it's only four episodes and Dr. Winnie's episode was the premiere. They pushed the date back and I don't think similarly to the Morocco episode of Osmond Girls' trip, I don't think we'll ever see this episode. Yeah. Such a good season that we'll never see. Dr. Winnie's team also did release a statement for the people listening. They said Dr. Wendy Ocepho and her husband, Edward Ocepho,

are back home safely and with their family and in good spirits. They're grateful for the outpouring of concern and support from friends, fans, and colleagues. The Cephos alongside their legal team look forward to their day in court. At this time, they respectfully ask for privacy as they focus on their family and the legal process ahead. You know what they did not say? They were innocent. I didn't think about that. They did not say we remain to be innocent or whatever that statement is.

And we can't wait to fight for a chance. They look forward to their day in court. They did say that? Yeah, which does imply. Well, I mean, guilty people also say that too, though, so. Yeah. That's a good question, though. I don't, maybe this is an unpopular thing to say.

Did Wendy and Eddie hurt anybody? No. They just stole. You know, people who pay their outrageous deductibles. Insurance in itself is a scam. Yeah. So, I don't know. You know, the people who can't afford insurance,

if insurance companies are paying out millions of dollars in settlements, yeah, that yeah it does well i do before we jump into uh the reunion of the reunion of me reunion of miami which was wild sweet pussy that was crazy i i was on i've never been on so uncomfortable watching a house watch episode as a game man i'm like i have so many questions about lesbian relationship but now i'm confused i'm lost she's like to use scissor what's a hookup what's a situation ship what's just patting in the bed she was padding heavy padding Heavy padding. Heavy petting.

The best day of my life. The Bravo Reckoning has been a topic in reality TV over the past year, year and a half. I'm very familiar with reality TV in general. I've never produced Bravo or been a part as a character on the, you know, but in other reality TV spaces, I'm very familiar with, you know, The Bachelor World and other productions of reality TV.

So there are a lot of similarities even with our differences. And we cover these shows. We love to offer some BTS and give some insight of what it's really like. Obviously, as a Bravo, Rob a producer, I'd love to get your take, but for the most part, and I can't speak to everyone's individual experience on reality TV, but for the most part, I've always found these lawsuits to be incredibly frivolous in the sense that, you know, when people say, you know what you signed up for, I mean, again, like everything has pros and cons and risks

and rewards and, you know, reality TV can be an incredibly destructive experience for people. We just talked about a whole thing about the pressures of it. It's not great for your mental health, you know. It's, you know, there are huge risks of being portrayed in a way that you don't like or appreciate. But so many people are signing up willing for the rewards of the reality TV. And they sign up thinking it will never be them. I'll never look bad. As long as I'm this, it's kind of the entitlement of thinking they're the star.

And then when things don't go their way, so many of them will then blame the edit or producers. And again, like, producers, I've met, I'm friends with producers. There's some producers I'm like, you're kind of a terrible fucking person. And so, like, there's a spectrum of that. But for the most part,

I find that producers in reality TV, from a fan standpoint, and often because they're portrayed from characters who talk about producers as like these evil witches and wizards in a tower pulling the strings. And in reality, they're just like doing a job asking, you know,

I often say that producers will make reality TV stars look better than they look worse because sometimes those people aren't as interesting as we want to believe they are. They're not as funny or as witty. They're not coming up with the jokes on their own. And they'll be the first to take credit. I've never seen a reality TV star in my life say, actually, that bit that I'm iconic for. I was fed that line. It's not me.

Oh, to make your cooking. The person who did that was, his name was Carlos, I've never in my life heard that but I've always keep hearing things like oh my God they made me say that they made me drink this you know it's like is there alcohol available? Sure we're all adults things like that but that's just been my perspective but again I don't know Bravo World like you know Bravo World

but that's my general perception of reality TV in general but I'm just curious if you agree or disagree yeah no listen I agree with you in the sense of like look I'll speak on my experience I did Atlanta Housewives seasons one through four, six through nine, and it was an incredible, incredible time in my life. Working for Bravo is like a fashion editor working for Vogue magazine. If you can survive the world of working for Bravo in the sense of like how they really teach you how to be a great producer, you can work anywhere in the business. And I give Bravo so much credit for my producing skills because. I worked on Atlanta Housewives, Season 1, Episode 1 in 2008.

And the education that they taught me is the reason why I'm able to do my job today. Telling real stories, really being authentic. What happened is this. Social media came about. And it's everything you said about the reality star loves the attention, which is fine. You're on television until that person on Twitter adversaries them, hates them. And then the great experience that the reality star may have had during production, doing pickups, doing interviews, talk to the producers. Hey, feed me a line.

Like, what sort of catchy line should I say in my interviews? All of that is wonderful until these people on social media say, I hate you. Then it's, well, they made me look bad. And look, I can only talk about my experience. I can talk about anyone else's. That wasn't my experience working with my girls. And it's the reason why I'm still friends with a Teresa, a Nini Leaks,

a Kim Zosiac or Sherey Whitfield is because we were all doing the best we could do, and that's why the show we're so successful. But I do understand when it comes to what social media has brought to these reality stars,

it's not healthy. They're not keeping up with the Joneses for the other girls on the cast. They're doing it to not get talked about social media. They're Their momentum is what they wanted to be until, honestly, I've seen it happen. I've seen it happen to where producer get called out the moment someone on social media says, you were such a bitch in this scene.

And they're like, well, you're going to see everything. They edited me that way. Instead of saying, you know what, I had a moment. It wasn't pretty. I was a bitch. But guess what? I learned from that. I'll do better.

Or just say thank you for watching. I mean, listen. Or like, it was good TV. Let me tell you something. I tell reality stars this. There's one housewife who I tell all of my stars to watch and study. And that is Giselle Bryant. Who, yes.

Who I call Giselle Kobe Bryant. Because I think she's great. And a little secret for you guys, Giselle doesn't go on Twitter. Jazeel doesn't re-commit. some reality stars you say, they do. Giselle Bryant does not go on Twitter

at all. And that's why she's able to go on, do her job, and leave. Jizel has never blamed production. Jizel has never blamed the producer. Jizel is this character on the show that you either love or hate. And a lot of people hate her.

Only online though, but if they would meet her in person, they would just, you know, just, oh my God. Can I have a picture? I love you. You're the best. You're my favorite. I was with her last week, her and Robin Dixon.

And the fans went wild for Giselle. So again, you can't get caught up in all of that. And I think, unfortunately, Nick, the reality star gets caught up in what the person on social media is. They'd be so much happier if they just didn't know. Ignorance is bliss. The best thing I ever did was restrict my comment sections on Instagram. So it's only people who I follow or people who followed me for years. And it's like these new people, these like people who don't even follow me.

I'm not even allowing them the opportunity to comment something under a photo of my family. You know, like, why would I give you that option? It's like just send it in your group message like a normal person. We do have a rapid recap of the Real Housewives of Miami Reunion Part 2, which was some of the best television I have seen in a long time. Shout out to Audrey. Mary wrote what we're about to read. I don't know what it is. rapid recast.

She writes all of them, but this is Mary's Pulitzer. Yeah, to people in the comments that say it's chat GPT, no, it's worse. Although I do want to know what chat GTPT? I don't want to say about me because I didn't realize chat is up

with pop culture. Oh my God. Please have been like, it wasn't that good. Like, do I want to, speaking of not listening in the internet. All right, welcome back to the L-word Miami edition. Julia claims that Adriana mentally and psychologically abused her, which is literally just a lesbian relationship.

Julia, you should know this by now. Adriana clarifies they didn't actually have sex because she doesn't have a dick. Stephanie, scissoring exists. So Jay begs to differ. Adriana also infers that Julia is a Russian spy in the group because she changed her name from Julia to Julia. Marisol is like Yao. all those tracks. Then, Adriana feels everything should be put on the table and drops a bomb. Julia was cheating on Martina with a Haitian mortician and had to give him a coffee machine as a

gift. She was also fucking a cop. So Julia is like my wife, Martina and I do not have an open relationship, but she does know about everything and she cried. Adriana tells her dog Baskiat that he needs a new godmother previously. It was Julia Baskiat is shaking at the news. Alexia just wants to know who topped. Adriana finally admits that there was heavy petting, no scissoring, and she does not know what Julia's private parts look like. So, Alexia, if you're still confused, Julia topped.

Adriana is what those is what those in the community would call a pillow princess. Who wrote this again? My girl. Julia then says Adriana wanted her to leave Martina for her because it would make a great storyline.

You may be wondering at this point, how can it get better than this? Well, Adriana presents Julia with a box. What's in the box you may be asking yourself? Adriana's ripped out heart. Which Marisol kicks away. Kiki is like, miss me with that gay shit. I'm celibate.

And then Lisa says chat GPT says Larsa sucks. Overall, give this episode a glad award. You nailed that. Do you think that she met the morticians through the cop who are coworkers after like investigating a crime? You know what I'm saying? It was so specific. Mordition.

I'm like, Ongriada is a like, listen, I have so many questions for the lesbian community. Same. Hey, girl. I got you.

So, look, I know when it comes to, like, heterosexual sex, we know it's sex because what thing enters a hole and is penetration.

Yes. Gay men, what thing enters another hole? Penetration. Penetration. Yes. Lesbians. What is considered sex?

Is it, is it when the tongue enters, when a finger enters or dildo? Any and all, but also maybe not, depending on who you ask, right? It doesn't make any sense. At all. I'm lost still. Okay, so like some people will be like, oh, so basically what Adriana is saying is that Julia just like clitoral stimulation jacked her off. And that was not sex to her because there was no penetration.

Yeah, I would say that's not sex. Well, but Julia is coming from a, like, lesbian. Married woman. And it's like, yeah, that's, if you're, if you're, like, it's kind of like the debate that we have all the time about hooking up. Like, when people say, like, so-and-so hooked up, you immediately assume sex, right? And then it's like, you come to find out, like, oh, he felt a boob. And it's like, that's not, that's not hooking up.

Lesbians play softball. Do you guys round the bases or? So this is, and it, like, depends on, it depends on the person. because right there are some like lesbian so like some like lesbian like pops they'll call them like a stone like I forget there's so many different phrases guys don't get bad at me community um basically there's some like lesbians that like do not want to be penetrated in any way and they'll like have sex with someone with a dildo and so they will like top in that way and so to them like that is sex but even though they're not being penetrated and then there's some people who like also don't like some people just don't want penetration and they would still consider themselves having sex. Can I just say as a straight man? The word penetration is jarring. Isn't it?

No, I think the other P word is jarring for a gay guy. You're like, ah, I just penetrate. It just sounds so. Yeah. The medical term. But maybe that's just me being straight. I don't know. And as Mary's point out, she's only speaking for herself.

I'm only speaking for myself. We're not speaking for everyone else. Yeah. I it's it gets confusing and then you know lesbians have opinions so everyone is like well this isn't blah blah blah blah blah and this isn't blah blah and so it gets confusing but I would say just for the drama they had sex they had sex and can we also just agree that like Martina did not if she knew about Adriana Martina didn't know about the Haitian mortician she did not know about the or the coffee maker the way that Is there was speculation that Martina has, like, considering separation, or is that just a... It's a rumor. I believe that's a rumor at this point. I don't know if anything is confirmed.

I don't think she'll leave her for that. I mean, based on what I watched the show, based on Martina's personality, she loves Julia. And I think, and I love me from Julia. I think Julia, unfortunately, is a serial cheater. Yeah. I just think she cheats on Martina because Martina isn't using anything to penetrate. her in the way she wants and that's why she sleeps with women and men.

I believe she slept with the Haitian mortician, the cop. I believe all those things. I don't think Adriana made that up because if that was a lie, you would see Julia react the way she reacted to Gertie. Do you know what I mean? Like, getting highly upset. I think Julia, unfortunately,

is a cheater. To that point, the way Julia just kept saying, like, the word blackmail and now she's, like, blackmailing her. First of all, it felt like just kind of like an aggressive accusation. Psychologically abused. If you're right, but if Carlos, if you're right that she's a serial cheater, that makes more sense that if Adriana knew like all these instances where like Julia is as fucking

around and going out, that it wasn't just this like alleged one time we cuddled one night and maybe you rubbed me in a way that might or may not be sex. But like I know like I'm not the only one you've been fucking around with. And that's the thing that Julia. is suggesting that Adriana is, like, threatening to, like, expose her. Yes, 1,000 percent. Look, the thing is this. It's why reality stars, you cannot fuck your co-stars, your castmates.

We've seen some things on Atlanta with Candy and Portia Kiss. And it was like, this is going to come out. We've seen it with Brandy Glanvale and Dennis Richards. It's going to come out eventually. I 1,000 percent believe that Adriana, who was caught on camera saying, I would break the fourth wall. You don't want me to say anything. She wasn't thinking about, in my opinion, they're Trist.

She was thinking more about what Nick said. You are cheating on Martina. But let's be clear. Audriana is not happy that she went from having a mojito, the first two seasons of the show, to being a friend of. And she recommended Julia, not thinking that she recommended her replacement.

And that's a hard pill for a housewife to swallow. to know that you refer this woman that some consider boring. A lot of people consider Julia boring and that Adriana should have a mojito. Yeah. So when you're watching this woman go on the Bravo press tour and all those things

and you used to be that woman, it's a tough pill to swallow. And I think Adriana, rightfully so, rightfully so, feels jealous of all the attention that Julie has received because she doesn't think Julia does as much as she does to earn her mojito. I mean, I think after this episode of this reunion,

she deserves a mojito I wouldn't go for you, you dirty little whore I mean like the word vomit You miss my sweet little pussy You miss my sweet little pussy was just insane Giving her her heart Her broken heart We watched the peacock version

Did sweet little pussy make the bravo Yes I watched it oh It was ribbiting It's the way she delivered it You miss me or you miss my sweet little pussy I was like And here's the word from our sponsors Wendy's must have been like, oh, fuck.

She's great. Should we quickly move on to O.C. Before we let Carlos go? Oh, my girls. We should. Here's our rapid recap. If you missed the most recent episode of the Real Housewives of Orange County,

Katie Janella is back, which is. I imagine this is how straight men feel when one of those Marvel superheroes returns from the dead. Oh, also, Tamara is back after quitting again. Incredible bit, no notes. Emily gets an accessoryed cowboy hat to support the Innocence Project because, sure. Also, are these hats crocs with giblets for wealthy white women?

Pop off in the comments if you agree. So true. We've got Gretchen out here looking like the first lady who down and whoville fighting for her life with Emily about Tamara. And you can call Emily the Grinch because she is not charmed by her. When we transition to Jen and Shannon visiting an animal psychic, this is Archie's moment to shine. He reveals through psychic energy that he wants a brother. Shannon is finally getting her man's. Katie reveals Slate is actually the housewife final boss.

Heather Dubrow reminds us that she loves. loves the gays. Terry serves in bolo tie. Amazing. Shannon is more urban cowboy than ho-down throw-down while line dancing. Gretchen and Slade tried to talk to Tamara. She dipped because she doesn't like to talk to classless trash. Overall, does Slade have an orange at this point? He should. No, that was the most, felt like the most produced moment of Slade being like, I want a scene. Yeah. And him looking at Gretchen being like, let's, should we? What did she say? I have two major thoughts in this episode. One, the, the nerve and the kind of brazeness of Gretchen to suggest,

that Slade doesn't get involved, he only gets involved when they involve him. This motherfucker did a stand-up bit shading Tamara Dickey. Other housewives. Like, he was a middle-aged man who's like, I want to try stand-up

in my middle age, and my whole bit is going to be talking shit and body-shaming women. So, like, please. I love Nick. Yeah, I was going to say, that's like, also, I do like, listen, I think everyone out there

should pay it forward. You should volunteer your time. You should look to do. do good in your community get it off my TV your performative whatever shit that's not why i'm watching housewives i i'm get again i'm glad that heather and terry are doing great things this is not the time to like i don't care keep it off your instagram stories you're not doing it for attention you're not doing it for me to be like queen you're doing good i don't give a fuck it's like keep it to your fucking self yeah it's like come on hers makes sense though homeless not

It immediately becomes performative when you platform your generosity into the community. I'm sorry. It's just like, I don't get to. It's her family. It's her family. Good for her. I don't care. This is my issue with Emily this season as well is that I'm just like, yet again, it's another thing that it's like you're not talking about yourself and what's going on in your life. It's another thing that's like, look at who I am, going back to your authenticity of it all. She's the first one that loves to stir up shit in the friend group and tell somebody what somebody

else said about them. But then it's like, but also in my spare time, I heal the nation. Like, no, you don't. Also, her sitting with Gretchen in that cowboy hat store and being like, yeah, I told Tamara, I don't trust her and she's pissed. And they're like, what? I would be fucking pissed too if my friends said they don't trust me. Absolutely. That's a fair thing to be upset about.

Why are we friends? But at also that moment, Emily's thinking she's telling Gretchen like, oh, my God, I have your back. I'm on your side. Tamara's mad at me. And when Gretchen flipped it being like, so you're the potster. She was like, oh, okay. Like, girl. Don't call me out.

bitch. Mind your business. You know what's so sad to me that I had to just accept and I love this woman so much. Gretchen's comeback is a huge flop and the reason why

I feel bad for her. I think she's being led by Slate. And that's the difference between Gretchen 17 years ago to Gretchen today. I don't recognize this woman. And it's sad as me because she used to be fun and have

a light of her eye and was like, you know, ditsy, but like funny. And we'll call Tamara out in a very, like, interesting way. When this man tried to confront this woman and Gretchen led the charge

was the final stop for me in terms of like, I can't support this anymore because this is gross. And I don't understand why no one is seeing the fact that Slade is being Gretchen's producer in this whole see that.

I feel like it's obvious. Like every time he's on, like, and there's such a stark difference between Slade and Eddie, you know, like the way that Eddie is just so clearly there to support his wife, he's only there to like be there with Tamara so she's not alone. And the second that shit hits the fan, he's like, nope, we're out. Like, you're not going to feed into this. Like, we're leaving, let's go. And Slade is the first person to be like, oh, I'll argue with them.

Yeah, you know that when Eddie's there, Tamara's been like, hey, I need you today. And when Slay's there, you know he's like, hey, I haven't been on in a while. It's giving Alexis Bellino and Johnny Jay. Yeah. And I hope Gretchen comes back for another season selfishly, but... I mean, flop or not, I've been enjoying the drama. Oh, the season's been great. I've been enjoying the...

I mean, her in the moment, ITM, whatever people call it in Bravo World, on the flies. Oh, the OTF? OTF. there are a couple jarring OTF looks from OCE Honestly, Garchin style in general is just like so bad. It's like Stubbard White

meets Easter. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Katie? You know, okay, okay. This is going to be a wild comment, but this is me speaking as producer and a viewer. I find her to be such an enigma

that I love it. I think she's a liar, allow your pants on fire, but there is something interesting about her that I want to see more. I wish she would just own it and say, look motherfuckers, I'm a new bitch in this world. And yes, I spoke to

bloggers because they're my research team. And it's okay. With that being said, I do believe 100% that Gretchen did tell them at Mastro's that Tamara allegedly drugged her. I believe it,

100% I think unfortunately for Katie she's become the boy who cried wolf like the one time she's telling the truth the women don't believe her and I get it but I think Katie Janella is a fascinating woman that I want

to see more of her I agree why do you feel like she's been gone the last few episodes I know she said it was I when they first announced that she wasn't going to be on the next episode it was when the girls went to Temecula they made it seem like it was something like Heather. It was like, oh, she's just not invited on the

cast trip. She's not there for three more episodes. Yeah, they out. And Amsterdam. They out throughout. It's the reason why you, listen, the way the show works is we have to believe that they're friends. We have to believe it. They have to sell that to us. These are friends. When the majority of those women said,

we do not feel comfortable filming with her, they did it to Monica Garcia on Salt Lake City, right? That's the only reason why she's not back. They were like, we don't feel comfortable. But if you give us this, we're friends. What we'll join together. Kumbaya, we'll fight and all that shit. But ice her out.

They tried to do the same thing to Katie. And Tamara Judge, the moment Emily said, I don't trust you. And then her friend, Heather DeBrow said the same thing. Tamara said, oh, bitch, you guys are trying to do to me what you did to Katie. Tamara was smart. Yeah. I will go on record saying this. those women this season, all of them, even Heather,

they want Tamara off the show. I believe it. That's why they can't control her. And I think Tamara's smarter than all of them. And that's why Tamara was smart to say, I'll help me with Katie. And that's why Emily, why was Emily so upset? Because it only takes one.

She's like, I'll never talk to you again. It only takes one. And then it's the face of OC now, which is Tamara. You mean to tell me this bitch is filming with Katie? damn it that means she's back yeah that's what it was also to clarify natalie katie was talking about the answer damn trip that's at the end of the season right that hasn't happened yet so she got iced out twice this season yeah so she does she's not invited to the answer damn trip as far as we know either way yeah i think tamera making alliances with katie is genius because as long as they're

willing to film together then we got a show amen uh carlos has been so much fun i have so much fun the guys been long overdue thanks for having me please come back i'll be uh on carlos's show I think soon. We're doing a little swap. But please come back. Let my audience know where they can find you, follow you, all that fun stuff. Yes. So my podcast is called Reality with the King. We drop four episodes a week. So find that wherever you get your podcast. And we also are on YouTube as well. And you can follow me at V. Carlos King underscore on all social platforms. All right. All right. Up next, we got Annie from Love is Blind. A lot to get into with her.

Then we'll break down the last few episodes as well. That's all up next. well you know about 80% of your immune system actually lives in your gut so when your digestion's off it can throw everything out of balance even if you eat healthy and stay active gut health is one of those things that's easy to overlook but it makes such a big difference in how you feel day to day that's why we've been loving the chlorophyll stick packs from nature sunshine chlorophyll is what helps plants harness the power of the sun and now you can get that same gentle but powerful daily detox in an easy on-the-go stick pack just mix it with water and you've got a simple way to support your gut health feel lighter, more energized, and more balanced. Plus, it comes in refreshing flavors like lime, my favorite apple, or melon. Your gut health is no joke, people. It really matters. As my sister, who is a holistic nutrition, she's always reminding us the importance

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Get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature's Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order. Plus free shipping. Go to natures sunshine.com and use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. That's code V-I-A-L at N-A-T-U-R-E-S-S-U-N-S-H-I-N-E.com. That's natures-S-Sshine.com with code V-I-A-L-L-L. Annie, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Thanks for joining me. We really appreciate it.

Where are you, is that like a real background? Where are you calling from? Looks a very sunny. Are you on vacation or? I'm actually in L.A. Oh! Yeah. Do you live here now?

No, I don't. I still live in Denver, just here for the weekend. Okay. All right. All right. What brings you to Los Angeles? This. No. Just you on our couch. Just here for fun. I needed to go to the pool. Okay. Yeah. Kind of fall in Denver and needed to get out of the house.

All right. Well, you've certainly been making waves this season. Lots of drama. We love the drama. I always like to start these interviews by just like, what has this experience been like for you? I'm curious, like, what made you sign up for such a crazy experiment? And has it been? what you thought or hoped it would be. I, so I actually had a bunch of people reach out to me on Instagram. They were like, hey, you would be a great fit. You really should, like, apply for love is blind. We think it'd be really great for you.

And I think I was just the right demographic. I was single, successful, working in Denver, and I own a hair salon. So I don't really meet guys at work, you know. And like dating, we were on the apps in Denver. I was trying. I was like, would be friends of a friend. And it just, I got to be very successful. I had my salon.

We opened a spa. We were just continuously growing. And it kind of felt like the only thing I was missing was a partner. You know, it was like very successful, very self-made. And I was like, but who am I going to share this with? And it kind of, I didn't have anybody. So the opportunity kind of just fell into my lap. And of course, I was happy to take it.

Okay. Did you go into this experience? thinking that maybe you were leading too much with physical appearance or just not sure how you would respond to falling in love behind a wall? Like what was your point of view on that? Well, for me, it's, I feel like people see me and they're like, oh, she's cute, she's blonde. Like, of course I love her. And it was like, I felt like I wasn't being heard or, you know, people weren't getting to know me, really. And so then dating in the pods, it was amazing because I could sit there and really get to know somebody before I got to see.

them, you know, they would get to hear about, like, how I grew up, how, like, you know, my parents raised me, you know, growing up in a really small town. It's like our values are, you know, really important. And seeing, again, like, I love to work. I work a ton. And I think kind of, instead of, like, hiding behind that, like, physical appearance, it was people really got to know who I am, like, how my mind works and, you know, fall in love with, you know, my mind instead of my physical appearance. How has it been watching it back for you? I thought you post like it was exposure therapy or something I literally I actually made a post about that I was joking it was like I've had to rewatch it it's like exposure therapy you're like

watching yourself go through the craziest emotions over and over and over and I think for me watching myself like fall in love with Nate and also having another connection with Brendan I think I'm watching the breakup is like it's like going through them over and over again to one of my clients this stuff funny. She was like, you didn't tell me I was going to need tissues as she was watching me break up with this guy I've never even met. Were you aware that Nick was seemingly so disliked with the rest of the group? Or is that something you discovered as it was airing? No, I ended up finding that out when everybody else did. And I guess what was your perspective? Because I'm sure you spent the most time with him.

was it something that you kind of saw once people pointed it out or did you feel like, you know, the Nick that we're seeing or the Nick that other people got to know maybe had an unfair representation of who he is? I think a little bit of both. I think Nick, he's like misunderstood. You know, he like means the best, but sometimes he just doesn't present that way. He can be kind of, I don't know, like I guess socially awkward a little bit. Sometimes he doesn't read the room right. And we'll say something that you're like, oh, you know, maybe maybe we would have kept that inside. But it was kind of disappointing to realize that the other guys really didn't like him. And I think it as a relationship progressed, though I could understand. He's like, well, you know, he's just a very, this is kind of misunderstood, but also just, I don't, he's not always super genuine. I don't, I don't know that he knows how to, um, present that to people, you know,

that's almost like he's always kind of hiding behind something. Who are you closest with from all the girls? I'm actually really close with Madison. She's great. She lives like 15 minutes from me. We hang out a lot. That's fun. And then some of the other girls that weren't shown quite as much,

um, my girlfriend, and Shelby. She's actually here in LA with me. And then Hillary and Asia. So we all became really great friends. I'll tell you, like, that was the best thing to come out of this. The new girlfriends, they're the best. One thing we did want to ask you. Obviously, there's been a scene. I'm sure you know what we're talking about that has been highly talked about, highly criticized the scene in the pods with you and Nick, or Nick asked you if you were to have a child in the queer community or identify as part of the queer community, how you would feel about

that. Obviously, a lot of people found your response to be insensitive. You know, obviously the people, there's a lot of people in my life that I love, friends and family, who certainly don't think who they love is a phase or anything like that. So I just, like, wanted to give you an opportunity and wanted you to ask. Watching that back, first of all, like, is there anything you want to say in response to your comments? The floor is yours. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's in the pods they're asking us really hard questions because they want us to find a partner like these are different things that um they can they kind of bring up and so by nick asking me what i would do if my child came out to me as LGBTQ i pause because i have a lot of people like

my family i have a lot of friends that are also queer in the community and i think for me my answer it was that pause that people are really upset about um it's the answer is i would love my kids no matter what. I would support them in anything that they do. And this group of people is already fighting adversity. They're already kind of struggling. They're having to face these people that don't accept them. Of course, I would never want to be one of those people that looks like I don't accept, you know, anyone in the queer community because, of course, everyone deserves love and especially my children. And I think, again, my pause and my answer then was just thinking about, you know, my friends and my family that have had to face these really difficult

seasons of their lives of coming out and, you know, maybe not being accepted. And I would never do that. And I would always love my children, my friends, my family, and support anyone in the queer community. When Nick asked if it was a fad and you said 100%, was that a genuine question and answer or was that edited? No, I don't think being gay is a fad, period. However, that part of that conversation is, it actually was from another part that we were talking about. We were talking about something very different and it just happens to be, because you can see it, do you think it's a fad? It doesn't specifically say, do you think being gay is a fad? Which again, I do not think being gay is a fad, but that was just clipped very conveniently after that conversation.

What was Nick asking you, what was a fad? So we were actually talking about how, like, sex self. We were talking about sex and over sexualization like in kids shows. So we were kind of bonding over how we weren't allowed to watch SpongeBob when we were a little. And so we were talking about that. And so we were talking about how do we think putting sex like, you know, out into the world is a bad. Like overusing sex, selling sex, um, over sexualization in kids shows. That was what we were talking about. Is there anything else that you feel as you've been watched that you feel like that's not me or I don't, I don't remember it that way? Anything specific?

Honestly, I will say basically the whole show. Unfortunately, I think by the time we got to Mexico, we were so exhausted. And there's the scene of me like laying in bed, just like having a full crash out. And then I went to bed, like thinking that we were done. And the camera crew came in and was like, hey, we're actually going to film some more. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so tired. The scene where you were like, I don't need you, I want you whole. Was that as confusing to you watching it back as it was to us?

Yeah, actually kind of when you're like forcing something to work and like filling the silence, it's almost like the cameras are on you and I'm like, oh, God, I just have to say something. And it's like, they're just like poking the bear. Like, say something. And it finally just came out as, God, I don't need you. Like I want you here. And it just, I feel like that continued through the rest of every episode with me

just looking like a crazy-aged animal. Well, I imagine that that comes from a place of, you know, the pressure of knowing that there's an expectation of marriage at the end of this experiment, other than alcohol being involved, is it all of you trying to figure out a way to really understand your partner's feelings and your feelings towards them and the sincerity behind it? And are you, what are some of the other maybe questions and ways? that you guys tried to, like, learn about each other that maybe we didn't get to see? We would spend tons of time together.

He actually came to the salon with me. We were going through a really big renovation. I was opening a spa. He helped me kind of do construction there. And that was, like, very reassuring for me. I was like, oh, well, he's going to help me with my business. He's always going to be, you know, here to support me. And that was something we really bonded over.

And then especially, like, meeting his family, meeting his parents. meeting some of his friends and really just spending that quality time together, getting to know each other. There really were good moments. And like, we just, we get along really well. We're very compatible. Obviously, we have our issues. And, you know, we're figuring out how to navigate those. From watching it back, who do you think if anyone is maybe being misrepresented, whether you feel like they're, they're coming across as more likable than you remember or someone is getting shit or, or criticism that you think maybe isn't quite deserved? I think Brendan got a pretty sick edit. He looks great. I think everybody loves Brendan and the amount of messages that I've gotten that are you should have chose Brendan. You chose wrong. He chose wrong person. Are astonishing. What did we not see? Yeah. What did we not see? He is, he's very sweet. He's very surface level. It's there was no deeper conversations with him. As much as I tried, kind of in the pods, like the concept is that, you know, your dates are. short and they get longer the less matches that you have so on our second to last day our date was

four hours yeah so i had a four hour date with brend and then a four hour date with nick 45 minutes into my four hour date with brend and i really kind of look hey i have i'm experiencing another connection it's going really really well and you know is there something you can do to maybe help me you know be more secure in our relationship help me you know know that this is right for us and he ended up he got upset with me and in his head he decided that i was going to choose nick over him and he got up and left so i sat there i had you know another three hours and 15 minutes to just sit there and you had to stay there you don't have to and so it was like i stayed for a little bit and i ended up getting up and leaving but it's like we had we had you know

another three hours and 15 minutes to unpack it and like connect and really talk about it the other part that's kind of not shown a ton either is there was another for all named Annie and she's Annie L which I'm also Annie L so it was Annie and Annie L right well those were also Brendan's top two choices that kind of just like messes with your head you're like all right where's my reassurance like you have two annies like which is which is the right Annie and I just remember her coming back into the lounge and telling me um I just had the most of amazing, deep, emotionally connected conversations with my match. And I was like, you know, you kind of start putting two and two together. I was like, oh, I'm Brendan. I was like, okay,

cool. Like, maybe he is capable of a good, you know, emotional, you know, conversation. And so going in and him just getting frustrated and leaving, it does look like I just like chose Nick instead of Brendan. But it was like, he really showed his true colors where, you know, it gets tough and you just up and leave or you don't miss the issue head on. I was like, All right. That was kind of a check box. I'm curious, like, you know, obviously, again, there's such a crazy experiment that you guys all go through.

And some seasons talk about it more than others, but, you know, sex was definitely talked about this season. I'm just curious as somebody who was part of this experiment. Like, what conversations, and when was the first time you guys had a conversation, if at all? Because maybe you guys just, like, you know, saw each other and hooked up. But obviously, there's this, like, weird thing of you feel, like you've known this person forever. You're literally engaged, yet you've only spent

less than probably an hour of FaceTime with each other. And it is such a fascinating conversations about physical intimacy in this experiment. I am just curious, like, how you went into this experiment with what expectations or boundaries that you had, did any of that change once you got engaged? And then how did you and Nick navigate that conversation that led to physical intimacy. Honestly, it's like really easy. It was very like natural, at least for us, like, you know, kind of like when the doors open and we were like revealed to each other. I think the physical attraction was there. And then they take you to Mexico. They like put you on a honeymoon basically in this like beautiful place. They cut you off. There's like no phones,

no internet. There's like literally not even music. You're sitting in this hotel room with this like attractive person that you're so emotionally connected to. So it kind of just like, of course. Yeah, you're just like, I want to get laid on this. If I don't get late on this vacation, like I'm like, I'm not getting my money's worth. I know. I was joking. I was like, of course we're in love. You literally set us up. Was there anybody that you were surprised to see in person during the mixers that like you talked to in the pods? I actually, I was shocked to see my dream. That was, I remember this is no shade to my. He's a great person. I like, love him as a friend, but I remember writing, like, you know, you have to rank everybody. And I remember

meeting Mike on the first date and just being like, no, like circle. I was like, oh, no. How did it make you feel to hear Nick kind of pitching himself to Sparkle Megan to be her like Cartier dealer? Did it make you feel like, oh, he's, you know, such an entrepreneur. He's so motivated to continue his business. Or were you like, uh, it feels like icky? It just honestly, it was so. I feel like it was in so passing. Like, it's just, it's hard because, like, that's his industry. That's what he does. He sells, he sells watches.

So it wasn't something that, like, bothered me. And I was like, all right, well, you know. Did he have any pieces that he gave to you? Oh, my God. Yeah. So nice. He gave me a calculator watch. That was, oh, my God.

He gave, that's what he gave to you? Because I'm watching it back being, like, how ironic that the person dating the luxury watch dealer is wearing the old school. Calculator watch. You can buy for $6. Yeah, he gave me a calculator watch for like $25 off of Amazon. He was like, too, baby, I love you so much. I have a calculator watch. It's kind of a dick move. I have one question.

How did you feel watching back Nick and Kate's relationship? I don't know. I have a hard time. Like, again, there's people that you're just not quite friends with. And I think that was unfortunately someone that I didn't like well with. And so I think watching that back and like, really? Come on, dude. So did Nick not actually tell you how he told Kate that he told you that he was in love with both of you and everything?

Was that? No, so I did know. But I think it, again, I'm probably a little bit more forgiving because I did have like a connection with Brendan at the same time that was like very intense. It was we hadn't told each other that we loved each other yet. I think it's still just like a very intense process. And I think people are so hyper fixated on that. They're like, he told her that he loved her.

And he told you, I'm like, oh, my God, have you never told somebody that you love them? Come on. I don't think he specifically bothers me in that. I think the fact that she was so hyper fixated on it that everyone is so hyper fixated on. Well, he told her that he loved her. And it's like, yeah, we all did. We were all doing that. I don't think that was fair, actually, for them to be tearing him apart over. And then I know you said you were really close with Madison. How did you feel at the end of episode nine watching back kind of like Madison and Joe both talking. talking about Nick in that way where Madison was, I think, talking to Kate about how like nobody likes him. Do you feel like she should have said something to you? Yeah, actually. I think like those are my friends. I kind of, I did expect them that they may be something. But I think we were, again, just kind of in that moment, like blissfully unaware, you know, when you're just, it's like, so, like, brand new. And I'm like, no, he's great. He's perfect. And, you know, meanwhile, my friends are in the background, like, hey, girl.

Slow down. Okay. Anything you want to leave us with or have anything to say before we let you go? I had people leaving one-star reviews for my salon, calling me a homophobe, and I just want to be so clear, like, I am not a homophobe at all. Like, I completely support the clear community. I think that those are some of my best friends. And best of luck of the rest of the way.

We're certainly excited to see how things play out. Me too. Yeah, best of luck. Take care. Have fun in your vacation. Enjoy L.A. Thank you. All right.

Bye, bye, Annie. Bye. Bye. Bad showing for my boy, Edmund. Yeah, rough day for him. K.B. really ate in this episode. I don't understand their fight. Can you explain to me what?

Well, I don't know what their fight was about. I don't really remember. It's because another couple of them was Nick and Annie that Annie was like, oh, he's just perfect. He's the best. And he's like, no, no, no. But Nick was saying that. And then Edmund was like, oh, that. must be so nice to hear. That's perfect. I wish I heard that more, to which Calabria was like,

why are you saying this as if I don't say nice things to you or compliment you enough? And Edmund doubles down with, you don't compliment me enough. It was the last nice thing you said to me. Which is crazy because all she does is gas him up. All she does. My sensitive king. Yeah. My baby, my love. She's always incredible. Either way, her biggest criticism was why are you doing this here now in front of our friends, which is a more than fair criticism in any relationship for anything. Like, you do that in the privacy of your home. And that's what she said.

The number one thing that Nali and I have learned in our relationship that honestly, like, protects our relationship is that if we have shit to talk about, we don't do it in front of other people. We're not winning fights in front of other people. We're not asking people to take our sides in front of other people. We respectfully, like, take that shit offline.

Because often you might say something that, like, you disagree with or you're not on the same page. And Edmund has the right maybe feel like, well, you say this, but I don't really receive it that way. What doesn't matter? I was so disappointed in Edmund, just like, but I love you so much. Like his default was to, I don't want to call it love bombing, because that's not like what I don't think.

It more came across to someone very emotionally immature, didn't know what to say, didn't know how to articulate his emotions, and his response to being called out and probably realizing that KB was right, was to just say, I love you, I love you. And his version of having a deep conversation was to just say, I love you. which was just like so disappointing for my boy. And to hear KB be like, I have told you this now multiple times to like stop saying I love you

to like get out of these tough conversations. Like this isn't that it's not a response. It's not like we need to actually have this conversation and I love you like doesn't mean anything to me right now. With all due respect, I'm just like Edmund's just not in a place who's ready. He's not ready for marriage. Simple as that because the second that he also realized

that KB was upset and he said you should walk away or whatever and then he walks away, he goes up to his. a group of people and is instantly like, oh, I'm going to be dead. I'm dead. Yeah, she's going to kill me. She's going to kill me. And it's just like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You either work this out with your partner or you act like nothing else is happening, but to bring it to the table. How old is he? That I don't know. That man has been through a lot. 100%. And I'm sure a lot of this is like a trauma response. I'm sure that he has. He's 29. He's

been through a lot. And he needs to like work through some, some of his emotions and like the things that he's gone through. And I just don't think that that's with your future partner. Like, I feel like that's somebody that, like, he needs to really work through whatever is haunting him. But I'm like, and that's the thing. I give KB so much credit because she's also a social worker. So it's like she has a lot more patience and understanding for his circumstances. But I will say most people wouldn't be able to handle somebody so emotionally unpredictable. How old is Joe?

He's 29. He's also too. And you want to talk about emotionally immature? Well, I was a more going to talk about his apartment. Of course you were. That was tough. Tough for Joe. Yeah.

That little, yeah, little baby. He's just so insecure, like, the way he needs to, like, shit on other men to be, like, to make himself feel better. And it's like, bro, you're not the prize that you're competing with. What does he do for work? He could just be wanting to live a simple life. He works in sales. Sales. Not specified, but sales.

Yeah, that means you're a people person, right? Or you have to be working with people. Not necessarily. For sales. He could coordinate. No one would describe me. I mean, I can be a people person, but that's not my resting. But you had to, like, yeah.

But you know how. I know how. What do you mean? You literally talk to people. people on a regular basis. You're definitely a people person. And sales helped you get there. I can be, but again, semantics.

But usually people in sales are money motivated and a little superficial, materialistic even. So it is a bit shocking to see Joe, whether it's by necessity or maybe he's just like, I don't know, I don't need much. I'm a single guy. I think he's so funny. I think everything that comes out of his mouth is hysterical. Him at the end of the night being like, Nick's not my fucking guy.

He's somebody's guy He is funny I do think Joe's very funny Don't want to be in a relationship Absolutely not You know what I mean My nightmare of a relationship Would love to like goof and gap

With that guy though There's a good party Funny banter Same with Edmund Same with Edmund I'm on an island alone Because I don't like him No

But Joe's never cooked in his life Yeah Him pulling out the You don't go No I think he definitely Makes eggs In that pot Maybe but you don't go

Apartment hunting As someone who enjoys cooking And says Yeah I want to cook on that You know You just don't What did you guys think of Sparkle Megan and Jordan house hunting? Honestly, my biggest takeaway was that looked like a very cookie cutter piece of shit, $2 million house.

Yeah, it was not impressed by that house being $2 million. Who is cute, the like wooding above the kitchen? Listen, by anyone's standards, obviously anyone would be lucky to live there. I'm just saying for that price point, it didn't, it wasn't giving. They're not getting a good deal. It wasn't giving Their heart was in it It was giving cookie cutter

It was giving spec house Yeah It was Yeah I was more curious Your guys's thoughts On kind of the idea Of the financial aspect of Joe

And Megan named The 2 million Yeah I think it's like listen She has a lifestyle That she has lived Clearly on her own For some time

She has I guess a house in L.A that she's planning on selling And getting 1.5 for She says And I think Yeah, she's like, listen, I want to live in a big house. And, like, I have the means to pay for it. If you can help with whatever it is you want to help with, and then we can, like,

continue to grind together. But, like, I don't want to live in an apartment. I want to live in a big house. I want there to be room for your son. I want there to be room for future kids. I think it's valid. I also think Jordan is valid to be like, I kind of feel like a mooch. Yeah.

Well, I mean. I'm glad he did, to be honest. Same. Same. Like, I'm glad he wasn't like, yay. Jackpot. Yeah, I think it, like, is a good reflection of his character to kind of be a little bit uncomfortable with that. This is what Megan wanted. Like, when she first went in, she wanted someone who wasn't going to want her for her money. And also, like, somebody who was like Jordan

almost exactly. Like, he works for his own money. He, like, wasn't attracted to her because she drove a nice car. I still want to know what car she drives. And, like, I'm surprised we haven't seen that I still think it's a cyber truck. But yeah, I feel like Jordan is like exactly what Macon set out to find. It's a very modern relationship in a sense that like here is a successful woman and a guy who financially is, you know, not that he's not successful, but financially he's not making a ton of money. And when there's a disparity in earning potential between a man and a woman that like, as we've heard from a lot of our women audience, that can create resentment, it can create, you know. Emasculation. Yeah. And I know a lot of women who identify as progressive who still like have some very

traditional preferences, let's say. And when it comes to earning potential, that sometimes is one of them. If for no other reason, it is hard to find a man who truly is comfortable with the disparity in earning potential. That being said, like it can work. You have to feel like you're doing your part. Right? Because money is just one aspect of it. Right. And if you're if you're, if you're used to making money, you realize that while there's certain advantages of not having to stress about money, there are just a lot of other things that go into making a relationship work and just having a true partner and approaching that relationship as a team, whether it's just helping around the house, supporting each other with their passions and careers. If he is, whatever he does

for work, as long as he's passionate about it, gives a shit about it, takes pride in it, and contributes in whatever ways the group, the relationship needs contribution, it can work. The hard part is that there's a lot of couples in that dynamic don't look at it that way. I also think the absolute goal. That's the word, right?

Yes, it is. You know, we used to correctly. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see what's a follow-up. When Mike pulled Sparkle Megan and was like, first, do you want to dance? Sorry, that's insane.

second to be like, do you feel like you made a mistake? Nope. I'm sorry. Haven't thought about you since. It is bold to ask. It is. It is bold to ask. And like.

But I mean, you can ask. But I love how she handled it. I think the thing with Mike is like, I mean, you even saw like in the men's quarters where you had like, I think it was Nick who was like he threw out that the line of she's going to need an epipen when she sees you. you kind of thing. I think that they were all gassing him up and he's got like a big ego and so I think that

like only someone with a big ego would say that. Yeah. And Jordan is better looking. Yeah. I think so. I think Jordan's really good looking. Jordan's like the part of me that grew up playing Tony Hawk Pro Skater. I'm like yeah. Except for the one. If

you were to go the other way you'd go for a Jordan. Like there's something about like a skater dillf, you know? It's kind of Well, he's got one flaw and what is the deal with the blended chicken smoothies? And also like crystal light. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Crystal line.

The second you said I went, oh my God. Like I just had a flashback remembering like that and she drank it too. No. What's wrong with the protein shakes? Is it like, is it because he said it was like organic? That he deserved to go to prison for that. And honestly, like the fact that she was so down to take a sip. Like you have your thing.

Set your boundaries. You have your thing. Do that. If you want to chug. Do that. No, I would have tasted it too. I'm curious. And the crystal light of it all.

Like, first of all, why? To give it like flavor? Like, where's the Lowry's? Like, why are you thinking? If you're going for flavor, just don't. What's wrong with the sluzy? It's water, not chicken. Yeah, that's crazy.

But I'm also like, if you're using chicken, you're clearly trying to, like, get away from added chemicals in your food. Can you just drop a couple of eggs in there? Yes. That was crazy. And that was her point. She was like. Like, can you just cook eight eggs?

I think I, honestly, I kind of forgot about that. I think I blacked it out. I think I blacked out during that change. It's one of those things where you're like, oh, God, I can't watch. It's like, uh, like, and they like the close up on it and then the drinking, it just all of it was bad. I'm getting less and less. Did you say it was chunky? Yeah.

By the second. Wait, yeah. Who do you think will make it to the altar and say? I think the only possibility is Sparkle Meggin and Jordan. I think the only one. I'm not certainly sold on it. but, like, KB and Edmund just no way.

She, I mean, she already knows, like, sweet man, I, my heart, like, I think she loves the person, but she just sees this is not a person that can have a relationship with. I think it's too much work for her, right? Like, he needs to just do some work on himself. I think Ali and Anton, she was already filming perfect match.

Yeah. Oh, I forgot about it. I forgot. Wait, was she? I keep forgetting about them. Wait, was she? I didn't see that. Him lying.

No, but she will be. No. She will be that. That's how specular. The whole strip club is. Yeah. Yeah. They're lying about.

The thing is, like, the thing is, I do really see them. I really do see them as a couple in the way that they are like that really toxic couple that you know that they're like, they're going to break up and then they would get back together and then they would break up again. They're going to have, they're going to have breakup sex for sure. Yeah. The way that this man, if any man is like, we haven't taken shots yet, it's 2 p.m. on a Tuesday.

Yeah. You're a partier. You're an alcoholic, probably. You're probably an alcoholic. Well, even then they were saying they spend their night shifts come home. They have time to sleep to go back to work. And then he's over here like mimosa's, beers. And she's like, he'll pop two beers in between coming home from his shift.

And I'm like, you party, dude. Yeah, like she's concerned and you lied all through those pod days. It's like, I'm going to be honest, there at 5 o'clock somewhere does not exist when it is 7 a.m. in the morning. It's not 5 o'clock somewhere at that point. Listen, if you're over the age of 22 and you're saying it's 5 o'clock somewhere, you have a drinking problem. If you have something in your house that says it's five o'clock

I was going to say you have a drinking problem. As someone from Florida, that's true. Hey, pop off. I'm just saying you might want to look into it. You know, like it's... Right, and then it's like

the fact that it wasn't his family, it was friends. And then it was just like, did we not have a prep talk before this? Also, it's his friend and his friend's girlfriend of four months. Like, I guess, but like,

doesn't really feel like they can speak on, like, there's zero chance. still together. And what a win for her. Like, she got a, she got a TV appearance after four months of dating. And she got to go to the bathroom and spill the fucking tea on this man. By the way, they both suck. Yeah. I want to know the timeline, though, because I'm like, when was this dinner with the friend? And then when was the mixer? Because, like, how have they still not talked about it?

Like, Anton went up to Allie and was, like, sensing weird vibes. And she's like, we'll talk about it later. I'm like, well, have you still not talked about it? I'm sure they just didn't have the footage because they don't have cameras in the inside of the house. Or if they're still, if they're living together, you know, Allie, like, after that came home and went straight to bed. She was like, I don't want breakfast with you. I don't want mimosa's. I will not be waiting to greet you.

Breakfast. They had, they both had their own individual ribbi for a steak and eggs breakfast. That was insane. Huge. Now that and I will, like, cook a dinner and share a steak. And then sometimes have leftovers to have a little steak and eggs. Like, when you have steak and eggs, like, is it a whole? That's a lot of doughboats. That's a huge tea bowl and eggs.

They needed to invite Jordan over. to show him what a full protein meal is. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, we'll see what the next batch has to offer us. Well, I think that I'll wrap it up for today's episode. Thank you to our guest, Carlos King, and Annie from Love is Blind. Tune in tomorrow for The Going Deeper.

You are not going to want to miss Robert Irwin and his dancing partner, Whitney Carson. It is, it was just a great interview. I mean, I really enjoy all of our going deepers, but when you have a guest like Robert. It was a full circle moment for me. It was very, you know, if you followed his dance. at at all and just, or if you experience the loss of a loved one, or you just want to feel good about the world, it's an episode you're going to definitely want to tune into. So be sure that you do. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.