The Viall Files - E104 Bachelor Finale Pt. 1 Recap with Arden Myrin and Cathy Kelley

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

Jack, baby kangaroos, and Madison's hand "tattoo" are the stars of the Bachelor Finale Part 1! Insatiable's Arden Myrin and WWE's Cathy Kelley join Nick to dissect this chaotic penultimate episode. They talk about Barb's performance, Madi and "Bud's" relationship, and they make their predictions on who Peter ends up with. Three cheers for line dancing! Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and get your merch at: https://shop.viallfiles.com/ THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: ECHELON: https://echelonfit.com/viall GRAVITY: https://gravityblankets.com/ CODE: VIALL HIDRATESPARK: https://hidratespark.com/ CODE: VIALL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's up everybody welcome to a special uh well not even it's i guess it's the same episode but it's special because it's the final uh bachelor recap episode of the vile files uh we have some very special guests here we're we're two-timing it because there's so much content to recap. Arden Marine, host of her own very funny Bachelor Recap podcast, Will You Accept This Rose? Hi, Nick. Very clever. Thank you.

Thank you so much. You can expect that kind of comedy on my podcast. Original. And then we also have Kathy Kelly, who is kind of an OG og not even kind of an og recapper of the bachelor she was uh one of the hosts of the after buzz bachelor recap back in the day when i was on the show uh on an andy season she talked a lot of shit about me uh but she was she was she was doing it well before uh people before there were 50,000

bachelor recaps um kathy was giving her objective critiquing of the show so a lot of a lot of knowledge in this room yes a lot of expertise before it was cool and then obviously we have my producer rochelle uh in studio with us as well i just had a flashback i realized you were i the first season i ever watched was caitlin's season so that's the first thing you ever watched i never watched you didn't even watch andy's i didn't watch any of it before so i remember that's good news for me well that's the thing when you showed up i my friend laurie who's like my bachelor historian who is so excited that i was coming on here and she said she thinks you're the smartest bachelor.

But she had to explain to me your arrival and what it meant. And, you know, because I didn't know who you were. I was like, who's this guy? Just show it up week before. I've never seen a chemical reaction from a female. Like, her's like, oh, my God, Nick's here. It was literally like Pop Rocks put in Coke. Just like her visceral reaction to your arrival. And I didn't know who you are, but I just had that memory when you were talking about.

I feel like that's a good season to start watching. She was a great bachelor. She was. And your drama was so gripping. It was. It's fun. I was in New York last week and I actually, Caitlin was there for work and uh we we uh connected um and i got that we hung out like i feel like i you know it's funny because every time i i say i have an

interaction with kate i'm always like okay choose your words carefully what can you say that people exes can be friends no no we're we're totally friends and and jason is super cool and i've gotten to be friends with jason so my relationship or friendship with with caitlin has evolved to like what what i guess i always hoped it would be it should be now that she's seemed to be in a a better place with her relationship but um i won't give too much details but she uh she like we've talked you know once around we'll get together we'll we'll kind of like talk about like that experience. And when I went on the show, when we were filming,

I was saying to her, like when the show was going on, we were off camera, I was like, you know, because I really didn't think I was coming on. Like the show had started filming, I had no plans on coming on. And I was like emailing her, being like, oh't get engaged you know all these like can you check over the top no she couldn't but she said she was going to try to and it was just like I'm writing it like I don't know if you're gonna read these I don't know if you're gonna get 30 it was like uh it was

heavy uh anyways I hadn't read them I didn't and I when we did the podcast when she was on she was like hey by the way like because we literally hadn't talked about it I didn't. And when we did the podcast, when she was on, she was like, Hey, by the way, like, cause we've literally hadn't talked about it. You know, she wasn't really, we weren't allowed to speak. She's like, you know, I never got those emails.

She just like, I looked for them. Like, you know, and she, she looked for them. Like when she got off the show, she just would like,

we were like shooting the shit about all this shit. And she's like, you know, by the way, you know, you sent those emails. Wow. Anyways,

we were out and she kind of, we came up. It made sense that it came up. She's like, yeah, no, I never got those, you know? And so emails wow anyways we were out and she kind of we came up it made sense that it came up she's like yeah no i never got those you know and so i'm sitting there thinking i wonder if i have them in my scent yes and i went and looked at my old email and sure as shit they were and i like looked at them and i showed them to caitlin and that were like it was some heavy shit and she's reading them and i'm like they were like you let her read them i was i didn't even read them i was like here they are oh my god let her read them? I was, I didn't even read them. I was like, here they are. Oh my God.

And then I kind of looked at it. This was last week? It was like, this weekend. And she had this, it was me and her and a bunch of her friends and they're like,

what? They're looking at Caitlin's, and it was just like, it brought us both back to like four years ago. It was pretty wild. Even just hearing about this, I think it was that season.

I remember you had like a cowl neck cardigan and you you guys went and there was the cardigans were playing and you were in a church but you but you went to like the church you guys were like grinding in the church in ireland and cupcake was left on the on the cliff like that's how to do it two-on-one but i remember that season and then i remember my i thought i was just going to be one undone with that but it was such a great season and somebody asked me if i was going to do paradise I was like no like I'm not a loser and so then I watched it and it was a terrific season of paradise and then I

remember I had this I had just this fever dream before yours was you were the next bachelor no Ben Higgins Ben and then I had this vision that I needed a podcast because I needed I needed to talk about it with funny people. You had things to say. But it was because of your season. It was truly, I think, because of you and Sean and the drama of it. It was just like, it was a great. She was a great Bachelorette.

That was a, I think, my favorite season. That was a really good season, yeah. Just to have someone so vulnerable and honest and true to themselves. Yeah. And I can see that Jason, like, if I jason and i wasn't like okay so you're like an ex whatever like it's different than if you're like he doesn't competing yeah yeah like i could see why you wouldn't and that's the thing like caitlin and i we don't like we're not friends we're like we're in this relationship but once in a while if we happen to realize we're in

the same city and we'll meet up jason's like cool i love this whatever like he seems cool it's not like yeah we don't i don't hang out with them. No, but that's so much of the Bachelor world anyways. Yes. So many people have totally. Well, it's more normal now

than like literally, that's the thing. It's funny that we even had this conversation over the weekend only because like for four years it was like, oh, I can't. Right.

Not really. Did you guys hear that they're going to do the whole Claire's Hole season in the United States? Because of coronavirus? Yeah. Did they? Oh Right You can't Right Not really Did you guys hear That they're gonna do The whole Claire's whole season In the United States Cause of coronavirus Yeah

Did they Yeah That sucks That's what the rumor is Lance Bass and I Were supposed to do The Amazing Race This summer

And it got No It's cancelled It did But we He thinks it's a good thing Cause when it comes back It'll be even more

People will be more excited But Lance Bass and I I've been like Running around The Amazing Race Cancel it's on hold right now that's a bummer i feel bad i mean you know i guess safety first i guess yeah no but at the same time we were never gonna win i'm looking up flights because they're so cheap right now go to hawaii or something for two i was in the airport and like really empty and very easy to get around. I'm sure it's clean by now. Just washed my hands a few times. I felt pretty good. Yeah, this is

the time to travel. Okay, let's not say that. Anyway. Yeah, I mean bummer. It is a bummer for the guys. How much do you actually get to see though? Not as much. It's not as much of a bummer as you like it is a bummer for the guys how much do you actually get to see though not as much

it's not as much of a bummer as is like you would think but i will say like i still have very cool memories of like having an entire day with andy in venice italy on a date and that was a really memorable cool experience like the ireland trip looked fun that was again that was a lot of fun and then you had Lapland that you know that's cold I will say that was cool because I'll never go yeah I'll never go to Lapland I remember like the Santa Claus that felt like he had like curlers in his beard like lurking lurking in the tree Santa smelled there was a smell there was a real like you know a stranger danger vibe to that Santa but he was Santa. But he was either Santa or full Daniel Day-Lewis. Full method.

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A lot to cover this episode. I'm glad I have the both of you here because there's just, I'm watching it and I felt things throughout the entire episode. And I was like, I totally empathize with each character

and I was critical of each totally empathized with each character and i was critical of each one and it was just so much it was very real and that's what i i do get very protective of the characters on the show especially at this point because you know there's a lot of snark and there's a lot of things and they there are people who show up and and and practice their speeches and you know have their followers in mind. But at this stage in the game, you're really talking about people who are like, brains are fried, hearts are in pieces,

they're very confused, they don't know what they're doing, they feel really real feelings, and they're truly losing their minds. They're not getting validation at all either. No, there's no support system other than kind of peter i mean i mean it truly i i feel like this has been a kind of dull season and then last night it just got taken up i'm all in i loved it i think i agree with you because they're tired there's they've had no phones he had a head injury like who knows how long that sidelined him you know and

i feel like everyone's exhausted and it it was i have never seen a more uh a family that has i'm not jumping ahead but like the family and their interaction was fascinating i mean it explains peter so much oh my. His background of his mother. Dude. We very much know why he likes a crier. Yeah. His mom,

I texted Nick last, I mean like, Barb was so ready for her close up. I loved it. I was there for it. She's watched every season. Oh no,

she's like ready to be Bachelorette. You know, she, like, my bangs are like braided back right now, but just when they're in,

you're just like, bring her home to me. She is an angel on earth, Peter. You go get her. I was like, oh my God. Wait, wait, no, no, no. When someone does a great impression of someone on the show,

we give them the floor. So I feel like, oh, Peter, this is what great love stories are made of. You go get her and you bring her home to me, Peter. You bring her home. You go get her. you bring her home to me, Peter. You bring her home. You go get her. I pray

to God and God put... I met her for two minutes, but I know you put her on, bub, bub, bub? Bud. Bud. Bud. Bud. She will support your line dancing and boning and parting. You bring her home to me, Peter.

We will embrace her with open arms it's really good thank you so much thank you so much that's the best acting i like that your hand was shaking too her hair shake well it's funny because like barb does she pulled like i don't know if it's you would have thought that hannah ann had met bar Barb when Maddie did in the date one because Hannah Ann does this thing where she'll just start crying and we don't know what's going on. You know, like Hannah Ann. I mean, in defense to Anna, she's just emotional, but she just either has figured out Peter likes to cry or she just starts crying. But Barb also just sits down and just immediately starts crying before Peter's like, what's going on? What did I do? but were there tears it was more just like a the mom well if you noticed her

reaction of she was crying and then the second he started talking she just stopped i mean she had a so you think mommy's a little manipulative uh yeah a lot of manipulative she had her tube top and her smoky eye and she was just ready i i mean it was i've never seen a family angrier at a woman who was mad that that like they didn't want to her partner to bone two ladies before peter did a horrible job at describing both women he said one was perfect and described her in this eloquent way yes and then And then the other one, he's like, yeah, we've had some struggles. We have a lot of differences, but I really love her. But then he went right to, he tattled immediately, like, she didn't want me to get down in the fantasy suites, but I got there. How awkward to go into a situation where you meet the family on the day of your biggest fight and then have to go explain that the reason why you had a fight is because your son yeah banged other women yeah i mean again i think uh my guess is that's just

what they shared with us and and aired because you know they probably talked for a little bit i mean it probably it wasn't that long i mean it's pretty like hey what's up i'm bringing this girl in she's pretty pissed i fucked a bunch of chicks. I don't know. Anyways, you want to meet her? Jack was enraged. His brother was so enraged. Like, how dare she? She knows you like to get down. Like, you fucked four times in a window, man.

Like, she knows that. I thought Jack killed it. I thought he was kind of the hero of the episode in terms of his, here's the, he's the younger of the two. He was so pragmatic and so like calm like peter's dad was very sweet and just being the rock for peter peter's mom is just you know just crying her way into his heart and jack's is like bro you love to fuck and you love to line dance

i think your life's a little too crazy for this maddie chick dude has anyone ever been described as crazy because they love to line dance in 2020 i'm like we were i'm just imagining him going to hide every night and like no but like getting bottle service and the way that they were describing him peter was line dancing what episode three and i'm like you know what way to be a sport peter and embrace the fact that like bachelor nation loves a good you know country music star no no i felt like they were trying to make him more relatable it's like this is a valley boy he lives in the they're trying to make the valley seem more like the middle of the country more relatable so like we'll make it seem like we're like you know in the south and it turns out my

man loves to line dance he gets off a plane puts on his cowboy boots and immediately goes to a country bar and starts like hoop scoot and boogie it makes me like him so much more it's so crazy that that was also something like that it's so it's it's like we're watching foot like footloose like that it's so shocking she'll never be able to handle you have like three beers and you go line dancing like you're wild like yeah well they were saying it as if like peter you like strippers and cocaine i don't know if maddie's really like let's just be real like i support your habits but like this is nuts the contrast too of talking about maddie's faith and that's why she wouldn't fit into this family

and then going into, I prayed all of last night and God said that he would bring the right woman into your life. It's crazy. I know this isn't the woman. I totally agree with you, Kelly. It was like,

at first Peter's mom was, and I appreciated it. She's like, hey, Maddie, just so you know, my son's not religious. You know, it was pretty like, she went right appreciated it. She's like, hey, Maddie, just so you know, my son's not religious. You know, like it was pretty like. She went right for it. You know what?

Good for her. For like just like my son, he's a little lost right now. And he's leading with his heart. But like just I don't want you to. And I really liked what Barb said to Maddie at first. That so many like parents are afraid. It's like, they see this girl, Peter's in love. And I related to Peter so much watching that episode,

just like young me, just being like, I felt for him. I've been there. I felt for him. You know, no pun intended, but Peter is in love with Maddie for all the wrong reasons. You think so? Wow. Yeah, it's like he's fighting for something he he's confusing fighting for love with like

you know the fact that you know when when someone says you guys just don't know her like i do right you know there's no they i feel like in their conversations they have so much more depth i know nothing about hannah and other than that she loves him and she like let out a few tears last night i don't doubt that his like feelings when he's with madison might be the strongest i'm not doubting that i just think like so many of us in relationships especially when we're younger it's the things that we have to fight for i was i text kelly last night i think peter's watched the notebook one too many times like yeah he's a rom-com boy like like he is a sweet guy and like and for all the criticism peter's watched the notebook one too many times like yeah he's a rom-com boy like like he is a sweet guy and like and for all the criticism peter has gotten this season i like

and i said this before you can't argue that peter's just a sweet guy a good guy someone you'd want your sister to date you know like he seems like he's in over his head he's a nice guy who's also been kind of played by the producers you know they like bringing back hannah b right out of the gate yeah and like like i which i think was a big misstep in that he was it clearly jangled his chemicals to the point where he he it woke it all back up and she was available and then she's like covers him in glitter and titties and like he's like let's do it you know and she's like now i, I gotta go do Dancing with the Stars. And then it felt like that kind of threw him off right out of the gate.

And he seems like this sweet guy has been put through this machine. It's very clear that his family was being protective of his feelings because of what happened with Hannah B. And I think because of, they just kind of know Peter does this. Yeah, they didn't want him to get hurt again but at the same time they they overstepped and i kind of question

the reason why he's had such trouble making decisions this entire season is because his family makes them for him yeah he does yeah but you're absolutely right he lives at home he lives at home he lives at home we're fighting for a guy that lives at home abort with barb he lives with barb he lives no i i and again his family seems really sweet i really like peter but yes and i really good for peter for standing up to his mom he's like you've got to stop and maddie stood up to her as well yes she did she said she cut off she cut off barb she was so well spoken i could not have i would have been i would have lost my i want to say about hannah and when you were bringing this up i she seems she started off the season i was like oh i don't think i'm gonna like her and then i think she's a very sweet

girl she's clearly beautiful i don't buy any of it i think she figured out how to cry he like because when he was so afraid that she'd never been in love. It's like, well, she's like 22. Like, well, so that's fine. You know, whatever. So she, you know, she's never been in love. And then she had like he walked away. And then it was when she started crying. He was like, oh, daddy like, you know.

And so like she knows to say like, I love you so much. I just wonder whether it's real love if they're actually in love or this is a young instagram not completely formed i i uh i kind of agree with you yeah i don't totally buy the relationship itself i don't think she is being disingenuous i don't think at this point and especially like having lived in it yeah you just don't uh it's it's very real now right so you're not faking it this much i think that's just how she reads i think it's interesting in life i think hannah and i mean this is almost a compliment i think hannah ann's kind of a nerd and i think maddie's kind of the cool chick and like hanny is mad at madison's like the basketball player she's kind of the cool chick and like Hanny is Madison's like the basketball

player she's always been the popular girl especially in her little very tight community hanging out with the guys how could Hannah Ann be a nerd I swear to god I think she's kind of nerdy Hannah Ann was friends with Hannah G right so pretty shy girls which one was Hannah G

she was the Hannah Ann of Colton very pretty didn't talk much run her up instagram model type huge eyes i'll bring her up okay great she was on bachelor in paradise too she got engaged to dylan yeah oh right yes i mean they don't i did they don't read as nerdy though they read as probably people that they were so pretty that they probably always i'm not saying she was like picked on like she think she's kind of dorky she feels pageanty she wants to like appeal to the authority authority figures like i'm always doing the right thing she wants validation yeah and so totally puts her best foot forward when she does it it's kind of awkward and dorky i think almost

in kind of a charming way because i don't think she's actually like when maddie does things and i've people have been like tagging me and they're like tiktok videos you know so like it's like i get like you know and i'm just like you watch it and it's just like maddie's the cool doing tiktok though yeah some look dorkier than others yeah but they're both they're both doing a lot of tiktoks i've been a bit informed by so okay are they 12 wow well it's there we go it tracks in the season um i mean they're the pretty girls who've always been pretty probably well liked probably everybody liked them i'm sure they were homecoming queens and they were pageant girls they and they've been trained you know but they're nice people. They're nice girls.

I think the question is whether she is able to relate to Peter. And I just, I haven't seen any depth. I haven't, I don't know who she is other than a cute, pretty girl that Barb thinks is angel sent from heaven. If I was watching back when Jack jack laid out jack basically was a really good lawyer and like told maddie he told maddie every reason he's like look here's the deal here's my brother here's you you really think you're compatible think about it this is what you do this is what he does if i was him watch and that's when i think jack and I think she's a practical gal. And she's like, oh, my God. Absolutely. Yeah.

She's like, you're right. And I think in the helicopter thing, I think Jack really swayed her. And if I was Peter watching back, I would have been a little bit pissed at Jack. Well, she never. No, he owes Jack a big thank you. You think? When she was leaving, though, when she explained her reasons, I love that she never brought up his family as being the reason she was stepping though when she explained her reasons i love that she never brought up his family as being the that's the reason she was stepping even further away classy so when it was

so apparent that scared her you guys noticed she had that proverbs written on her hand what is it it's a bible verse is that a tattoo i think she just wrote proverbs oh did she write that yeah it's not a tattoo no of course it's not a tattoo. That makes me like her less. I mean. Much less. That makes me like her much less. It looks like a henna tattoo. I'm TV, so I'm going to write a thing so everyone can see.

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That's E-C-H-E-L-O-N fit.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Echelonfit.com slash V i a l l i i watched it and i've been very defensive of madison as it relates to the timing which she told peter that she's a virgin and people have been critical of like why'd you wait so long i've even been defensive of madison when people say like you knew what you signed up for and i'm always like, no, you didn't. Right. However, and you women seem like you're also in defense of, you seem more in defense of Maddie than critical.

Is that? I've come around on her. I really. In a positive way. Yeah. Because she lost me last night. She did. I don't think what she gave

was an ultimatum. I think she was explaining. Oh, I totally think it was an ultimatum. I don't think it was an ultimatum. She said it would make it very hard for me to continue not i will never speak to you again there was no harshness in the way that she said it i think people confuse ultimatum with a bad thing i'm fine with the ultimatum people give ultimatums in relationships all the time yeah

i have the problem so like i mean i think we're agreeing and saying it differently because i do think what she said was totally fine. Yeah. Like, this is how I feel. There's nothing wrong with saying in a relationship, this is what I want in a relationship. Right. Right?

And I think in that moment, like I've said this before, that was very different than the Luke P of last season, which it was like shaming Hannah. But now Hannah's kind of going down the Luke P path where it's a lot of shame and it's a lot of like, she does these things with her lips. You mean Maddie? Maddie, I'm sorry.

I think that Madison's being shamed by everyone else. Like even Peter to an extent of him, him interpreting what she's saying as an ultimatum because she's saying, I don't know if I can accept a proposal six days after you slept with another woman. That's not saying that she couldn't do it a year or two down the line fine but it's interesting because i i found myself almost like uh disagreeing

with myself before watching it last night because again i i'm very like when people say you don't you know you signed up for i i get really defensive if everyone is going on the show right however it was clear last night just how rigid Matt is with her beliefs. Like this, like apparently she doesn't drink the whole like apple. Yeah, the cider. So it's just like, this is who she is. She is steadfast, good for her. She's writing fake tattoos in her hand.

She wants everyone to know that line dancing is way too nuts for her. And I guess my question is, all right, you may not know what you signed up for. Yeah. But like if this is who you are, then you did have no business going on this show. And as someone who's been in Peter's position before, I do think it's kind of fucked up to take it that far, to let yourself be one of his top two and maybe his favorite and then break up with him. Like, you should have realized this is like, this world's not for me.

And I think this guy likes me because Peter is, again, the only one. break up with him like you should have realized this is like this world's not for me and i think this guy likes me because peter is again the only one and i'm having been the bachelor before i would have been destroyed like he's got so much invested and she's like leading him on if they had been outside of this situation and it had been a normal relationship maybe it would have lasted a year or two until they got to that point where they realized that they weren't compatible on things like religion or going line dancing or whatever that is but i guess it's just more the i i found myself because i also was defending maddie last week of going okay you don't get that many dates with there wasn't that like you can't on the first date

there weren't that many times she could say it. When is she going to say it during his parents' vow renewal? Yeah. I'm totally fine with it. Yeah. Like, yeah,

because he did tell her he was in love with her. Like he said it. So it's like, okay, well, if you're in love with me, like, please don't go bone Victoria F.

And it's like, that's why she's here. Sorry. And so, and then, but I did like last night as i was watching and after hearing meeting her family and her dad you know i put my hands on her as a baby and prayed for her husband and then last night and like realizing just how i thought how did she did they pursue

like how did she actually get on this like there's a rumor she was trying to get on colton season listen when it comes that really really, yes, probably, when people, they either submit themselves or friends submit them. Yeah. Often when they get submitted by whoever, whether it's themselves, that it's like an eight to 12-month turnaround. My friends, when I got signed up for, she was watching Sean Lowe's season. Yes.

And my friend joked with me, oh, I submitted for The Bachelor one night. And I like totally forgot about it and didn't. And then literally nine months later, I got a call. So it's not like, you know, she, yes. So the time in which she said that was probably around Colton season. Oh, that's interesting.

No one signs up for a particular Bachelor or Bachelorette. I loved your analogy of the, you're trying to make dinner out of groceries you didn't buy yeah oh that's interesting although you guys got to vote on which bachelorette you wanted which was also spectacular i didn't i was in the salesforce offices hoping they would pick brit oh my god brit who went off with that guy that guy oh brady i vividly remember that morning of finding out. And I was super bummed. I was in my living room.

And I walked to the grocery store. And I got it. There was a big announcement. I called my dad. Go to make dinner. Oh, because you wanted to go be with Kate. Yeah, she was going to fly out to Chicago. Aw. Yeah, but.

What do you guys think of that? When he was like, remember, it's like that basketball game. Oh, you knocked your tooth out. where you know, you're too sound. And then your dad said, I need you back. Yeah, that was like a very. Yeah, that was a real moment. They clearly have had some real conversations. He seems the happiest with her except for until until like the fantasy suite hangar,

you know, he has seemed the most relaxed. They seem the most like they've had a good time he has seemed the most connected to her it's a great body language yeah they're they're cute together peter with madison is like i was with vanessa like ben was with lauren there's always that one person where it's like yeah they like so and so and yet but like when those two are in the same room together it it reads through the screen, right? Like you, it rarely does a lead have that with two people,

sometimes two. Did you have your, did you have your Victoria F? I can't remember. Cause there's usually like the sweet one. And then the, like the bone zone one. I just had Vanessa.

Like it was. Cause there's sometimes like the soup, the one that you're like super horny for. And then the one that like, I know I'm going to end up with them, but like, I want to just get it on with so and so beforehand who was the first bachelor was it ben higgins who said i love you to two people yes yeah it was jojo and lauren but even then when you

watched it i think you really like jojo and jojo obviously is very impressive but like when you saw him and lauren it was like yeah this is different yeah i wanted him to pick jojo so badly that wrigley park that was a great date yeah it worked it worked you know it worked out but i mean i i just that's but it's weird so they have this connection i didn't like even i didn't like how madison broke up with peter like i don't like stop using analogies and say you're doing it for them even you're breaking up with someone like i'm doing this for you so you can find someone else she just knew she was marrying into that family and she didn't want any part of it i think the brother really scared her i think the brother was like here is every reason why is not gonna work like are you crazy i think she was already so mad at him for the fantasy

suite like to the point where her body language even when she said i love you and he would go for a kiss and she's like i mean listen she doesn't have to kiss peter but like yeah peter's just like there's nothing wrong with our relationship everything's perfect meanwhile she won't kiss him she's so mad at him yeah and i don't think she can get over it and then the brother was like a john grisham trial lawyer just saying every reason why they shouldn't be together but that's guys that's why i'm critical of madison and plus we've been basically teased that she's now going to come back and i'm just thinking madison you have every right to believe what you want to believe you have every right to save yourself you have every right to be pissed at peter at sex with all these other women yeah you didn't necessarily know what you're signing up for yeah however now you know right and now it's like it's clear that you're

and people are your peter's family whether aggressively or not are like letting you know and like you're just you're you're fucking with him you're like you're dragging it out i mean that's why she removed herself from the situation you're very very Team Maddie. I'm kind of them too. Wow. I'm kind of them too. I mean, a little bit. I feel like I kept wondering if the producers were dragging her back.

I felt like, I didn't feel like she even wanted to be at the rose ceremony last week. Like I felt like they shoved her in a red dress and pushed her up the hill. You don't think she could have left? She could have left. I know.

Are you Team Maddie? I don't know. No, I'm not. I'm not Team she could have left? I know. Are you team Maddie? I don't know. No. I'm not team Maddie or not team Maddie. I think she's deserving of a lot of criticism for some of her actions.

Some of her actions, I think she's been unfairly criticized. Do you think she expected Colton's situation of him to leave when she was leaving? If that's the case that he's again makes me like her less because i just think there's there's been these moments with madison we get we don't get to see much of her yeah and i really like it when we see the real madison that real

madison is very articulate very articulate and very like thoughtful and not as sweet and nice as she wants everyone to believe. I like that Madison better. She feels real. She feels real. But she's also manipulative. Well, 100%. I mean, no one writes a fake tattoo in their hand if they're not manipulative. I think it's a reminder to herself. No, it's not.

It's so every... It's not. Don't put it on your hand. Don't put it on your hand. Like you're on national television. This is like... I mean, where is she going to put it on your hand. Like you're on national television. This is like. I mean, where is she going to put it? Like on her back?

Like. Not anywhere. Like. Do a tramp stamp version of Proverbs. On your lower back. She's going to. You read. It's hard for me to get past the eyelashes.

I know. They are. That's your criticism of her? Yeah. They are. They're just a lot. They're a lot. She knows what she's doing is what I'm saying.

I'm just saying like I've. We've. I grew up religious i grew up around that like you know the the shame and the pointing and like i'm better than you but she's never that's the thing is she's never forced her beliefs onto him i don't think like she said in a very subtle way like you're a big boy oh i love that big boy big verbal slap in the face so you like that no no no that was that was the only um part of the conversation that she had with him that i felt very critical of of that was a little

condescending i just think she feels she knows and like she has it's wild talking to him because she knows she has this power and i get why she's pissed because she's like like that's how vanessa would have been had i done what peter did yeah and she would like no no these other women whatever we have the only real relationship here and then no, no, no. These other women, whatever. We have the only real relationship here. And then you went and had sex with these other women. Like, what the fuck? I totally get why she's upset.

Because he said, I'm in love with you a few weeks ago. But she's treating him like she has his power. And now she's like using it being like, and I get like, she's justified to feel the way she is. But she also, again, she is on The Bachelor.

Aren't these a two-way street though? Like at the end of the day, the relationship, she's justified to feel the way she is but she also again she is on the bachelor aren't these a two-way street though like at the end of the day the relationship she's in my mind she's looking at the relationship as this could be marriage where all of the other girls were looking to just get to the end of the show i i totally agree i think we're like saying the same thing but i feel like a relationship with madison for peter would it be a lot of i've been in those relationships where it's like you really do you is you really think that's the right decision do you think you should do that and a lot of just critiquing Peter she'll never get over the fantasy he'll never be able to line dance and have fun no I'm serious like in all jokes aside I think a relationship for Peter with Madison is doing whatever Madison wants to do yeah and going to to Bible and like a lot of guilt and a lot of, a lot of passive aggressive like pokes at Peter's like lifestyle.

I don't know. I think for sure. Now I think for sure. After the fantasy suites, I think there is, she, if for whatever reason they end up together, she will never fully get over that.

Even though she knew he got down on the windmill four times, like even, you know, I think she will never because he told because he made the error of saying i'm in love with you part of her religion is talking about forgiveness so i think that eventually she could i think in this situation it's literally it's been a less than a week since that that situation happened but one of the one of the moments that i did want to touch on is Peter said to his brother that all relationships are compromised, but it's when it becomes sacrifice.

And that's what I think his family is concerned about of, are you going to move to where she is? Are you going to go to church every Sunday? Are you going to be involved in ministry? Are you going to do all of these things and sacrifice spending time with us, moving out of our house? You're not going to leave, Peter, are you? She's not moving in uh but i i agree with kathy there where it's just like i actually think madison would get over it what i don't think madison would ever stop doing is kind of negging peter and shaming peter and and like

unless peter fully like becomes madison's dad I think she, like, I just think you, you know, like, and I've done this, like I, I've been Madison before too. I grew up in a heart, like when my first girlfriend,

I was the very religious one and she wasn't. And I look back on some of our fights and it was a lot of me, like forcing my beliefs on her. And when she didn't do it, it was a lot of like condescension and shame and passive-aggressive comments trying to change someone for what you want what you need i've we've i've done this right like so i'm not criticizing i think madison you know is a 23 year old woman who's literally lived in a bubble yes uh also her own bubble pete's lived in a

bubble we have two bubble people trying to like pod people you know trying to i don't think either of the women are right for him i i did want to go hang out with the baby kangaroos which are the best things i've ever seen we were talking about that last night the kangaroos like the guy at first i was like is this guy like a serial killer and i was like no he's not he's like he's an angel on earth they were scared of him weren't you kind of scared of him i don't think you realize this that guy was like six six because peter's tall and he towered over peter um he hopped out of that like range rover out like that outback jack hopped out looking hot looking kind of like salty dog good day yeah he's like and i was like where he's taking us like a shed like by the way they also saves baby kangaroos.

The worst location on earth. Like they were in like the most barren, like get ready for a romance. That's why they were scared, yeah. They could have murdered all of them. No one would have- Nobody would have heard their screams. Sound, camera, they're all done.

They murdered the entire crew, craft service, everybody. Those baby kangaroos, those orphan kangaroos, I just, I want to hold baby kangaroos those orphan kangaroos i just i want to hold baby kangaroos yeah i uh i'm not like i wouldn't describe myself as a super sappy person like like puppies are you want to adopt a kangaroo now look at that look at that puppies are obviously cute right obviously clearly cute when i see them on tv i'm not like one of those guys who like yeah sits with her i'm like oh my god like amazing like clearly they're cute they're so fucking adorable but when i watch this the baby kangaroos i'm on my couch being like feet are their feet are as big as peters my phone was blowing up with like every because

everybody texted me the hero i just kept getting like baby kangaroos texted i mean 15 people i mean kangaroos texted i mean like 15 people kangaroos are dangerous though yeah they'll punch you in the face but as babies oh god they're so cute although there's still a photo of this banger kangaroo he looks like he could he's like that's madison he looks really like i'm stinking cute but i'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna rip your dick off, sir. Oh my God, look at, I mean, I was surprised at how quickly, I was surprised that he didn't pull a Colton a little bit. Like I was surprised that he was like, okay, well, I'm a little rattled,

but I do see your future with Hannah Ann. And I want, and he actually said the phrase and I could see wanting to spend the rest of my life with this woman. And I thought if you actually are with Hannah, and she's watched back the first part of this episode, how do you get past that? I was thinking that. So we don't know what's going to happen.

And I'm just like, you can't pick Hannah Ann anymore. I didn't believe anything that he was saying in those interviews. I thought that he was trying to convince himself because of what his family said maybe because of what producers said and maybe because she was the last one there yeah that she was the one it's interesting though because then this is where like i do again get defensive of the show or peter is that and peter is like he's really he's like a bachelor test tube baby. He believes in the process. His brain isn't anywhere else, but this role he's in.

You can make the argument he's the perfect bachelor in the sense of what they want their bachelor to believe in. They built him in a lab. They did. But in fairness, he's just so fucked up in the head right now and again like i said peter's watched way too many rom-coms where he's just he he's fighting for this love and he is confusing that with romance and he's confusing that with love

i do think he really does i think in i think it's unfair to hannah. I know we like to snark and tease. It doesn't read, but I do think there's a real relationship that we're just not seeing. Well, how many relationships do you know where one half of the couple is really religious and the other isn't, and they still go to church on Sundays and the other one stays home? It's possible to do.

I only know one. I know several, but yeah, the fact that it is possible for possible to do we're saying only know one i i know several but yeah the fact that it is possible for them to make it work it does but would you agree that they you have to have two people who are very confident in their own beliefs and they're they don't necessarily need and feel this burden to like force their beliefs on it's like some people like have to vote for the same people and some people are like listen i love you you love me and like i don't care about that other stuff i just don't think i don't think madison's that person i think peter could be that person peter just wants to line dance peter's supposed to walk around in his like captain's outfit a line dance and go hang out

a bar have sex watch rom-com line dance and peter would be like just a happy little guy hannah ann i mean she's so cute. She's super pleasant. She loves him. I can see how on paper he's like, okay, okay, this isn't a bad life. Can you imagine her getting married tomorrow, though, or being a mother at this point? She looks like she's 14. People said that about Becca.

Can you imagine that about Madison? Yes. Yeah. You could. Because she's so religious i can i can almost see yeah her friends falling in love and getting married young because they all are you know they save themselves well that i agree with i think madison has a lot of life left to live yeah she i don't think madison's ever really bought into like yeah madison's from the south

and i'm probably religious too like i don't want to take anything. What are you talking about? I'm sorry, Hannah Ann. Thank you. But yes, Madison is a true believer in her beliefs and steadfast and yes, you're right. She could get married tomorrow and like this is part of the plan.

Did you guys watch Love is Blind? Yes. I've seen two episodes. Okay. I'm obsessed. I feel like Giannini Malady. Gigi. Giannini Malady.

Her name is Giannini Malady. Which one is she? she's the one that Miabella she proposed as well yeah she's the one that's acting in a soap opera she's amazing

I've seen the two I've seen the first two episodes okay so as you were talking about him being built in a lab like to me Gigi just knowing that

I could have been named Milady that that was an option like it just like just the fact I may soon adopt a kangaroo and name it M'lady. Like, so Gigi M'lady, she to me is like the person on Earth who's just purely been brought up watching reality shows and knows how to play her parts. She finds her light.

She's like, no, dude, I'm making love. You don't throw me around and it's just like oh it's like watching somebody who knows how to improvise her she knows the part she's wearing her wedding dress it was a me it's it's she's an incredible character who is built in a lab it's like peter's a perfect bachelor gg was my lady was built perfectly for love is blind. Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. It's the best. Do you think Hannah Ann is like that as well?

Cause it's funny when you were saying that, I felt like you were describing Hannah Ann a little bit. I don't think she's as, I do feel that she knows how to, yes, I think she, I think there's like a, it became a strange thing during Colton season where they opened the shoot of

pageant gals and like i i think it's the early training the training oh yes has made it slightly less interesting i i agree and like you know love my pageant listeners and you know but it's yeah i've said this it's just like we need a little break they double down a little too heavy it's like fun to have one or two you know and it's like an interesting like world a lot of people aren't familiar with but now it'd be like we got infiltrated right uh by it they're trying to reset though with claire i think it will be interesting watching the older guys and the young the young gals in paradise it's gonna be like raya it's exactly it is the tv version of raya that it will be in sayalita

that that will be wild so we like let's be to wrap up i do want to say that and we were talking about this before so far my my prediction i'm impressed i'm i'm like i got the order a little off yeah but so far i've hit every beat i'm a little less confident about the end now because i have predicted he's going to be with hannah ann okay but i said that uh madison would leave i think everyone kind of thought that i did predict what no one did that hannah ann was the woman that barb would would would tell her to come back i hope you put money on that because you'd be so i tweeted that tweeted that. That was shocking. I said Madison's going to come back.

Seems like she does. And then I said Peter's going to be with Hannah Ann. That I'm not so sure about. Okay, let's guess. Let's guess. Let's guess. What do you think? Oh, Kelly. I mean, I don't think he's engaged to anyone.

I hope not. But when they're saying, like, we're going to find it out tonight, who do you think they're going to find out? Like, so are you, are you like, is he going to propose on stage to someone tonight? And who is it?

They seem to be setting it up that way, right? That like, it's all going to end in this epic shit show. And they also showed the producer. They showed the producer in the coming attraction. Julie, they showed half her face and they've been,

they've been blurring out all the producers. That was new thing but they didn't blur her face that's just an easter egg there's zero chance he's with a producer and i listen that show unreal yes that actually did happen sure and like so good i'm not saying it's impossible but i almost get defensive of julia she's literally just doing her job her Her job is to like basically live on Peter's hip for the past five months. When you came on my podcast, when you were still, or your show was still airing,

you had your producer with you. Like they have to go with you everywhere. You spend every moment with them. She's really cute. Tell them to say what you said earlier. I feel like you don't hire the hot nanny. You know what I'm saying? No, they have,

I feel like they have a lot of producers who have either tried to get into acting or hosting and they've they've um a lot of gravitated towards that a lot of producers on the show are in la doing the thing and they found their way on the show totally but then like how could somebody not fall like he's got the head injury he's confused hannah ann's come there's been all the champagne gate like now you've got the person who's consistent is like a cutie pie. You hire a cutie pie? I don't think so. It's not Julie. Somebody's going to bone the nanny.

Gavin Rossdale did and he was married to Gwen Stefani who's the best. You don't cheat on Gwen Stefani. Nick is very against this theory. Okay. Okay. So you think there's no producer. Do you think they're going to be leading up to like, there'll definitely be some cameras in hometowns.

Well, I think it's pretty clear that we're going to pick up from Peter thinking, well, Hannah Ann's my girl. You know what? I really love her. Great. You know what? Screw it. I'm going to propose.

If he was going to propose, he would have said something to her on the date. But he had the suit on. He had the Neil Lane suit on. No, no, no. You forget that every season, whether it's this type of drama, ironically, the person who the bachelor or bachelorette ends up picking,

it always seems like they have the worst last date. Right. You go back and watch raven and i was like everything's great and fine we're having fun we're ice skating we're rolling around on the frozen waters meanwhile vanessa's like what the fuck are we like i don't know if i want to get engaged and and i'm like you know and she's just like i don't i like, I don't know if I really want to live in Canada. She's like, you know, it was just like. Now you might want to. Yeah. True story.

And so, yeah. So like, I don't take much about that. So they don't, honestly, that last date makes me think that, you know, Peter's going to wake up and be in love and all at the expense of everyone in America thinking there's really not a love there. Yeah. But I think they could be overplaying that. Yeah. I don't know

so anyways if peter's gonna wake up he's gonna be ready to propose to hannah ann insert madison which is either both a dick move by madison and probably the producers well i think that's what we just found out madison's coming back is i think what they're about to say right but it's gonna happen literally as he's like he's got that pear-shaped suit on he's picked out his ring he's got that ring there was a very loose phrasing of, we're going to see Madison next week. So does that just mean that she's on the live show? No, but they had the, oh.

No, you're absolutely right. There was very, you never saw her. Like there were no previews. Yes, they did. They had her saying, I regret it at the very end. They have Harrison asking Madison if she regret it. And Kathy's right. That could have been like yesterday. They could have filmed that three days ago yeah oh

my god she could be like god you guys how many times have we heard snippets of interviews that were from a different episode or different point in time oh my god that were just totally chopped together kathy could have i mean i'm sorry i'm gonna get all my names wrong uh madison could have called up chris harrison and be hey, bro, I know the finals up. I want Peter back. Question. Then what is he talking about when he says we just found this out? In my mind, when he goes, oh, my God, and he lies on the bed.

In my mind is we just found out Madison's coming back. Or we just found out Hannah Ann left. Well, there's that. Maybe Hannah Ann could just be all like, whatever. She said she wasn't getting anything else, and she was also hanging on by a string. The most insane ending could be that Peter either proposes or asks out Hannah Ann.

Like they leave in some sort of a semblance of a relationship. I just found out Neil Lane missed his flight flight he's not gonna be here and then madison waits like a period of time like two months and then decides that she wants to get back with peter and while peter's in a relationship with hannah ann fights for peter back that would be fucking a mess oh my god you guys sending her emails every day oh my god you know there's gonna be some like hometown there's been we haven't had a normal just a proper proposal ending since like colton jumped the fence and he's like they're trying to force her to date him we had already did the switcheroo like the bachelors have gone off-roading for the last few years i was gonna

say hannah b but that's like for the guys, for the guys, for the guys. I'm afraid it's a little jumping the shark every season. Cause you had like all these crazy endings and it's almost like, do they have to keep one upping him? Is it too boring? If all of a sudden we get to the final two and the bachelor, the bachelorette's like, yeah, that's my person. I feel like we need that.

I feel like America needs one good, solid, real couple proposal. I was going to say, we need the swer like america needs one good solid real couple proposal i was gonna say we need the swerve where the bachelor picks the woman at the end that he actually married i feel like we need him i feel like we need a wedding i think clare are tough we need a wedding things are scary out there we need it we need claire claire i think we're gonna hopefully get back i mean listen it's gonna be totally nuts and i love claire i think it's gonna be she's gonna be a great bachelorette but claire batchett i love it claire is a little naughty she's in a great way and adult batchett yeah but it's it but it is gonna have a different tone in a different field we'll have conversations we're gonna like we're gonna stop pretending that women in the 30s are not eligible for love

like it's so it is isn't it wild that like rachel at 31 was the oldest bachelorette, I think. Was that true? I think it might've been. And like, it's like, it's, you know. The most appropriate time to actually get engaged. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're finally like having a more realistic and we'll have conversations.

We'll hopefully have some single dads. We'll have some, you know, Clara's been engaged a couple of times. Clara's had a series. I'm looking forward to not having people's tragic stories be about like what happened when they were 15. I want it to be like, and it doesn't have to be like totally insane. It could just be,

I was in this relationship and I got fucked up over it. And I didn't really think I'd find someone else. Like that's relatable. Or like some adult who's like, I bought a house and then my company downsized. And I had to sell it. I had to sell my house and get like,

The stock market crashed because of coronavirus. Totally. Exactly. I feel like we might get more relatable and real conversation. I can't wait.

I hope there's a raccoon that she's talking to at some point in time. Or a baby kangaroo. Oh my God, the baby kangaroo. All right, quick round table

and then we wrap up. Rochelle, who's, who do you do who's he picking madison madison so at the end of wednesday morning peter's with madison kathy um i think that he's with madison okay and by tomorrow morning or i think he's with madison but they're now broke they tried and they they're not together now so wednesday morning peter's a single single i'd say he's single. He tried.

She's mad at him still. I'm just going to be starboard and say Peter's going to wake up tomorrow morning and be with Hannah Ann. Okay. Because no one thought Barb was going to be talking about Hannah Ann. So it's entirely possible. Ladies, thanks so much for doing this. This has been a ton of fun.

I guess we'll find out. Make sure to tune in to tomorrow I have Kelsey on to help recap the final and learn a little bit more about Kelsey love her

Kathy tell people where they can find you you can find me on Instagram at Kathy Kelly and on Twitter at Catherine Kelly you can find me at Instagram

at Arden Marine A-R-D-E-N-M-Y-R-I-N I also have a book that you can pre-order called Little Miss also have a book that you can pre-order called Little Miss Little Compton. My podcast, you can pre-order it anywhere. My podcast will be Except This Rose and I'm on Insatiable on Netflix,

which season two is up. Yeah, anything else? Anything else we want to plug before we get out of here? Make sure to, yeah, check out Kelsey in probably like, I don't know, 15 hours. Love her. She would have been

A great bachelorette I think she would have Been pretty good I'm a fan of Kelsey Yeah me too She completely won me over You can come watch it With us tonight

Oh And we'll be here Like real time Okay Real time East coast time Oh Yeah

Anyways Okay Have a good night See you tomorrow Alright bye bye