The Viall Files - E1058 Going Deeper With Austen Kroll

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper!  Grab the girls, because Southern Charm boy extraordinaire Austen Kroll is finally here! Hear him dish all about his relationships with the cast, all the drama and more! You will absolutely not want to miss it.  "So… you said I was scared?" Are you interested in being a part of a dating docuseries, with the opportunity of meeting your one? Fill out our casting call! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc8_echsNPYsFZZ1tIpyY_aMD75tB3kZwKWCfgVZuYeS-xJQg/viewform Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  We've partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we'll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that's 1-855-646-8855 and leave us a message. Please make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with "Texting Office Hours" in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Quince - Refresh your winter wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Helix Sleep - Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for 27% off sitewide for their new years sale, exclusive for listeners of The Viall Files. ShipStation - Try ShipStation free for sixty days with Full access to all features, No credit card needed! Go to https://Shipstation.com/viall for sixty days for free! Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @krollthewarriorking @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare @izeweaver  

I have a question. Do you have air in here? I mean, I understand that I'm wearing like a shunky-ass sweater. No, we do. And I totally could take it off. No, we do. Ooh, I feel it immediately in the back of my neck. This is heaven.

Why didn't I have this going? That's just our system blowing on you back there. So basically when watching, he is not sweating because of our roasting. No, I was saying because it's physically actually hot in here. Awesome. Welcome to the Vial Falls. In the flesh. Here we are.

Did you ever think he would be here? There was a time when maybe there was like a holdout, let's say. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. I feel like it was up until last season when Nick was like, this season's kind of boring. And then. Did I say that?

I think. You're going to get me in trouble, right? No, no, no. This was last season. It had like just started. And you're like, the season's a little boring. Yeah. And then Austin was like, I'm not coming on that show.

You called us boring. And we were like, no. That's right. I didn't hear that. I've heard more than you've heard. I've heard that. I've heard that. I've heard that in the boys of Southern Charm are afraid to come on the show.

I might have said that. I've heard a few things. Well, you know, I go from like daring people to. I mean, last year was boring. Thank God, you know, for Shep at least to have to have what he had going on, right? To kind of make it interesting. I mean. Yeah.

No, that was funny. That was hilarious. That was awesome. It wasn't funny. It was drop dead hilarious. Well, thank you for coming.

Little BTS. It was supposed to be Shep. It was. We still hope to get Shep on. We were planning and having conversations with getting you on this season. But unfortunately, Shep,

like some other people, including, I think we are, are stuck on the island of St. Bartz. So have you checked in with him? Is he alive and well? Of course. Shep is fine. Shep is in.

back to the States. Okay, good. Well, I mean, one, again, I'm excited to have you on. I've been looking forward to having the three of you on, all three individually. I'm fans of all you guys. Like, it's funny. When I saw you at BravoCon, I was my first BravoCon. I was really fascinated.

But, like, I feel, and like, a lot of the Bravo fans I talk to, you three really seem to, like, have your own unique audience. Like, a lot of men, like Southern Charm for, for, because they relate to the three of you. Yeah. I almost, and I feel like you guys, for better or worse, depending on what, you know, the audience thinks about you guys, I feel like you guys represent like heterosexuality on Bravo reality TV. Well, I appreciate you saying that.

I think that's a really nice thing to say, you know? I mean, there's so much to say about that, where we all three are so different. We're the definition of, like, the Spider-Man meme, like, we're all pointing at one another. Like, you do that more than me. No, you do that. And we all do that to each other. We all call up one another when the other one fucks up. For some reason, we'd love to tell the third person who's not involved in the fuck up about the other ones fuck up.

So we've seen. Yeah. And, and, you have no idea, you know. And it is great that I have buddies who work in all sorts of fields who will call me and be like, look, and watching, you know, this show just like reminds me of the drama that I have, you know, with a friend of mine. It's just not on TV, you know? And let's not forget that Mr. John Hamm gave us very high praise a season ago, talking about how you love charm because, you know, it's kind of about the guys.

And like, no offense to all the wonderful women on our show. That's John Hamm's words. Yeah. But to that point, though, it's like what I think is charming about it is that in a lot of ways, you guys show that a lot of the dudes, the bros, can, you know, we'll get petty, we'll be dramatic, we'll worry about some of the same stuff that traditionally we will just assume

the ladies are arguing about, or a lot of women unfairly will be blamed for being dramatic, and you guys represent the side of us that, you know, is kind of the same, you know? Well said. I mean, you know, I'm sensitive and I'm petty and I'm this and I'm that

and I guess, yeah, that's the formula that's made Bravo. So you started on season four, Season four, yeah. And how refresh the audience for anyone who doesn't know, how did that come to be? Every season, it's like, hey, who are friends of yours, right? And Shep recommended me. And I got this phone call, and I was like, who was this?

You know? And I came to a party, and that was that. And so it was basically Shep, I didn't know anybody else. Like, I didn't know, I mean, T.Rav or Catherine or Cameron. I mean. How close were you with Shep at the time? Were you an acquaintance? or like a good buddy.

Shep and I were like, we, we, we were a step down from good buddies. Okay. We were buddies. Solid friends.

Yeah. Yeah. You know? And, and so obviously, that was nine years ago. So, and that's kind of how it happens,

right? I mean, everyone needs like a, like a point of contact into the group, right? Because it's not like, okay, cool,

this person is beautiful, but they don't know anybody. So not, not referring to myself. You are not, not referring to my soul. myself, of course. But, um, but, um, but, you know, uh, it like has to be some sort of, uh, degree of separation, of course, from, you know, the group. And, and, and yeah, that,

that was an interesting time because you look back, charm now is so different from, I mean, it always changes, right? But back then, you look at the cast of characters that were on the show then and now, crazy. I mean, every single person is gone, except for Shep and Craig. Yeah, every time they do a flashback. I'm always like, oh, yeah. I mean. I forgot about it. And talk about like a daunting cast of people to jump into the deep end with, you know?

I mean, Catherine and Thomas and Cameron, they're all, you know, larger than life, my personalities. And I'm like, I don't know what the hell is going on. So it's like at that time, it was basically like, thank God for Chelsea Meisner because she was like my life raft. Yeah. What were you doing before you did all this? TV stuff. Yeah, I was a beer rep. And so you saw that for me. So I was a territory sales manager for the southeast of a brewery based out of Atlanta. So I wanted to be in the beer game. And then when the season aired and all these people being like, oh, maybe we want to try, you know, this beer.

I was like, why am I hawking someone else's product? You know, I should, I should create my own. Like, whoa, you know, my eyes are open. But got into the beer game, Nick, because Wisconsin. I lived in Wisconsin, as I told you prior to jumping on here, and I became like a beer nerd to the max. So beer for me, I was like, all right, let's try and figure out something in the beer game. And that's what I was doing prior in Charleston. Okay. How quickly did you quit that once you joined the show? One season, you know, because I was like, you know, and by the way, that's like an important

thing to note, too, because, like, it's not like a. putting all of my eggs into the charm basket at that time. But going off on my own, when I look back on it, I'm like, man, that was a balsy move to just like quit and kind of try. It is kind of fascinating when you, when you bet on yourself. Like if someone would have told me all the things that needed to happen for me to be sitting with you here today. Yeah. When I like decided to like leave Salesforce and leave my condo in Chicago. My mom worked at Salesforce, dude. Really? Yeah, so back in the day, dude, she's, she's, yeah. Hell yeah.

But yeah, if someone would have said, all right, you know, I'm not going to tell you this if this is going to work out for you. Right. These are the things that need to go right for you. I definitely wouldn't have tried, you know. And sometimes, you know, it's like what you don't know is just as beneficial for what you know. Definitely so. You need to have a little bit of like blind optimism, a little bit of delusion to bet on yourself, you know.

A little bit of delusion for sure goes a long way because. You look at people that have been on the show and on many shows, you know, throughout the Boba FERS, but our show in specific, too, who bet on it. And then they fell away or something. And you're like, oh, man, you really put eggs in a basket and that kind of got ripped out from underneath you. And that's, that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, uh, you know? And so it's like, I know it sounds so lame to say, but it's like, I look at all this shitty

shit that's happened to me on reality television over the past however many years. And it's like, wait, maybe everything. that happened got me to this point. And it's not if. I mean, it did, right? So, like, would I take back the video of me and my boxers yelling Madison's name over and over? Yeah, I would, but maybe that had to happen in order for Madison and I'd be great friends today, right? I mean, I don't know. It's all crazy. No, I mean, that is true, though, right? Like, if you ask any reality star, you know, no regrets. Like, everyone has them. Definitely have regrets. But to your point, like, you don't get to pick and choose, which is why.

you know, whatever we think of the networks or the producers who make these TV shows, they know what they're doing. They're professionals. They're not as these evil wizards that ever, you know, like so many fans make them out to be. Yeah. Quickly jumping out of Southern Charm, I'm sure we're going to jump right back into it. But going into your childhood, I didn't know this about your sister, passing at 9. Okay, we are switching gears.

Sorry. And you obviously don't have to answer if you don't. My question is, how old were you when that happened? Seven. You were seven. Yeah. How did your family keep? Because you're obviously so close to your family today, your parents and Katie.

How did your family keep y'all together during that time? One word. Katie. Really? Katie came to our family and was the biggest blessing that the Crowell family could have ever gotten. Right. So our story is very interesting because it's like if my older sister Kyle were here still, than my younger sister Katie wouldn't be here.

It was literally a cause and effect. And so it is very interesting because we look back, of course, with the fondest. And, you know, we having a family cries together. And I mean, Katie, like the year and a half period between my older sister passing and my younger sister being born was truly like the dark ages for our family. But I was seven, eight, didn't know my family, my parents, you know, we're going through. Yeah. Which, you know, turns out was a very torrid.

And then my younger sister kind of came around and came around as if like you built her. My younger sister was born. And that quite literally was like it was like our whole family rebirth. It's like healed. It was like that. And then we moved in like a new house and then life could begin again. I mean, I'm such a big believer in, you know, so much of our success in life has to do with our resilience. see our ability to get over adversity, but I have been grateful and lucky that I've never

experienced anything that tragic. Yeah. And as a new dad, I mean, I'll, you know, I know, like, I have a hard time watching, like, TV shows and content where, like, something bad happens to kids, especially as a new dad. So, like, just to hear that story, so much, like, just admiration and respect to your family to get through that. Because truly, the moments like that sometimes can have a very dark domino effect on so many lives. You know, if I wasn't there, it would have been far darker, I'm sure.

Yeah. You know, it's a horrible little club of fraternity to be a part of. And then you look not to bring men other people into it, but other people on our show did lose their brothers two and one year. And it was just like, it was just like such a. terrible fraternity to be a part of. And, yeah, I do not wish it on absolutely my worst enemy, you know. Well, thanks for being able to talk about it. Yeah. I mean, guys, I mean, we just had, you know, a 30 year anniversary. My sister's turning 30. Actually, we're going to Costa Rica in two weeks. So, yeah, like, 30th anniversary is here. And it's, like, time really does heal.

Weird question, but like, what is your younger sister's relationship with your sister who passed if they're in a kind of almost kind of spiritual way? It's a super meta, like, you know, question and things that Katie always acknowledges Kyle and always, you know, refers to her as, you know, my sister Kyle and things like that. I mean, always talks about it, you know, never refers to it as like, you know, your sister or things like that. And honestly, I've never asked her that question. I'm sure that she does have a relationship in a way with my sister.

Was fascinating. Were you there when she fell? Yeah. You were. Yeah. What was this cliff? Like, see, to talk about, you know, the town, it just got, you know, I mean, wiped off the map by a hurricane and there was no love loss with my family on that one.

So I won't even say the name of the town. town for terms of, but there was no love lost with it. And, yeah, I don't know. How did you, I mean, and just, and we can move on, but like, how did you personally deal over the years with that tragedy? And has it been something throughout your life you have had to, like, revisit in a way of dealing with it where you've, you know, have you felt it creep up and affect you in different ways throughout your life? Well, my therapist would say so. Okay. I know. I don't know if, I don't know if anyone who's watching this podcast has noticed over the last nine years of my 10-year-on brother that I'm a bit of a commitment foe. And I think that my therapist thinks, yeah, it's not tough to notice.

And I think my therapist would attribute it partly to that. And part of me is like, oh, that's so low-hanging fruit to blame it on losing my sister. But she's not the only one who's brought this to my attention. And so I think maybe it has, you know, I'm not going to blame shitty past behavior on the passing on my sister, but commitment issues potentially could be. Prior to your time on reality TV, what was the longest relationship you've ever had?

It's been capped at like a year and a half, two years. Okay. Two years. That's not nothing. It's not nothing. No. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It just gets to the point for me. What do you mean? It gets to the point for me where like not, not to sound like a, you know, but like, oh my gosh, you know, forever. Big, big long, scary term.

Like the get married or break up? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. So it really is about the commitment for you. And like, you know, committing to someone and being in a relationship, I'll tell you that since I've been out of a relationship with my most recent girlfriend, I, uh, I far

better like the person than I was when I was in a relationship. I like that person. that person was focused on the right things. And then being out of it, you know, I find myself easily distracted by the wrong things. Interesting. That can be a multitude of things. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Because like for me, it was like, it's interesting to hear you say that, like, you know, from guy to guy and just, you know, how we look at relationships. I was very, I was like a serial monogamous in my 20s. And then for me, it wasn't like, I never really had a problem with commitment. But I, I will say like in my 30s, now granted, I took a lot of chances. and I, you know, my time on reality TV was in my 30s. So it was like almost my 20s were like my 30s, almost like flipped around in a way.

But is there any part, I guess for me, I stay, I was single for so long because after my 20s, I was like, okay, well, I know what I like and I know what I don't like. And when I was 20,

I just would like fall in love and just like, like it felt good. And so you just did it. And I was a lot more pragmatic. And I was maybe a little more cynical that I, I didn't know how to like fall in love or like lock in with someone. So I never really.

I didn't even get to a relationship past four months in my 30s. Like before I dated Natalie, I was just... But like, by the way, I think that now looking back at all the things that I've gone through, like, that is almost better than like locking in for like a year and a half and then going through a way more hard, a harder breakup, right? At least like a four months or three months or, you know, whatever, you're like, hey, sorry, I'm not, you know, willing to go the distance or the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I don't know how, you know, relationships a year's ended.

Tracically. Yeah, well, well, they basically all do, right? Unless they end in, you know, the ring on the finger. But like, I don't know. I don't know. Do you, well, given that, like, the way you described it, that you kind of almost get to a panic mode, do you have any, like, one, do you have a one that got away? So I definitely can point to the like big blow up messy, like love that that everyone has.

And they're like, I'm never going to do that again. Right. I can point to that one. You know, that's Madison. And then, you know, I don't know if this is like a cop out because it just happened. But I was at such a peace with myself with my most recent girlfriend. And she provided a very like. safe and healthy space.

She wasn't a part of this world at all and liked it that way. And she let me live the life that I want to live. You know, she wasn't, you know, what are you doing tonight? Where are you? Who are you with? There was none of that. It was all just, and it was up to me to not be like a shitty boyfriend, right? And so I don't know if I can point to that and say that that definitively is the one

that got away. But up up to this point, that would be that that's like where my head's up. Were you broken up before the season started airing? No. No. Because would she pissed that it looked like you hated it? her? She's, she, I just recently, not to, you know, divulge and to drag her into this and things that she doesn't deserve, but I certainly just thought that I was having some

conversations that normal people would have at like a year and a half in about where the relationship could potentially be going. Hey, you don't like, she doesn't live here. So, what's going to happen? She's going to move here, which is the beginning of everything, right? And she's on the show. That's it. Well, you know, that doesn't have to be, right? But it changes the dynamic. But it's more so this.

She moves here. That means that what is the next step? You're proposed. You're proposing. Yeah. Yeah, no. Oh, well, she would move the Charleston and move in. That's immediately what she'd be doing.

Because at that point, at this point, it would be two years now. And so she would be moving in like, like, now. Wow. And then that means, right? And so say that I had any sort of like after three months like, oh boy, then I just made her uproot her life and moved to Charleston. And she's like, you could have told me this six months ago, dude. And so that's what I did.

Because whether anyone wants to hear it or not, being on the show speeds up everything by 10 months. Because they want answers now. Do you like her? Do you want to date her? Do you want her to meet your parents? Let's go. Where's the arc? Come on, dude.

You know, the like IDK answer does not work. Right? And so that's kind of what began to happen. And I thought that I was just having open conversations with a few close people about what the future could, you know, look like and what my reservations were about the future. And bam, dive in. Let's crack that armor open and really, really try. try to fuck this up. I used to always think, like, when I was single in my 30s and I moved out to L.A.

and I was living at a buddy's place, I was dating. And I'm, you know, I'm post-batchel era. I'm like in my, when I was probably around your age, maybe a little younger. And so in my mind, I'm like dating with the intention of meeting someone to, you know, eventually settle down. But I was also sleeping on an air mattress. And I was taking improv classes in L.A. and, you know, for the first time of my life,

I didn't have, like, this steady paycheck. And you wanted to be an actor? Yeah. He's been in Christmas at Christmas Cruz. Ah, yes. Okay. Oh. No.

Aeon. Okay. Okay. Starved of McKay of Fox. Yeah. Okay. But, yeah. So, like, and then I just remember at the time,

as I got more established in the, in this kind of, post-batchelor world where I was like, you know, I'm just, I was just trying to make it. I realized that there was zero chance that I was actually going to like be anyone's boyfriend at that time because I think deep down, I think maybe this is just more from men, but maybe everyone, but like until a guy feels settled in his own personal life with like what he knows what he wants to do or he can like, you know, for me, my love language is acts of service. So I, you know, me, I want to take care of my people, so to speak. You obviously are more than established and crushing, I'm assuming doing very well for yourself,

having done this for as long as you have. But do you think the uncertainty of reality TV and the space in which you operate and all the things you kind of just talked about in a similar way to how, you know, my mindset back then, do you think that also maybe stops you from like feeling like this is a safe space for whoever I date in myself to like pursue something serious. It's a deep question. Thank you. And I think the answer to that is it certainly has played a factor, right, where I'm like,

I want to make sure that I'm good and that we're good. And, you know, good being like, you know, comfortable, right? Not like good, you know, lavish, right? Like good, you know, comfortable. And then you add a kid to the mix and you and that's like a million dollar little, you know, human right there that you got to think of. And in the past, it has been a talking point. And in more recent past, you know, than you'd think, you know, with people that have been

on the show and of like, I also just want to date someone, me personally. I think that I would never be able to propose to somebody short of like three years. Is it because you have? haven't gotten to that yet. I think so. When I met Natalie, I was like, listen, I definitely want to have a kid someday. Yeah. I never want to get married.

You know, that, I don't know. Yeah. Look, look. Maybe just haven't met the right person. Dude, such a, like, that, if my sister was sitting here, she'd be like, you're fucking kidding me. You know, like, he's 38 years old, Nick. Okay, don't give him the bass on that. But, uh, but, you're probably part of the problem.

Yeah, look, look. Like, not to go back to therapy, but I literally have a therapist for this reason. What, like, what is my, like, how do I break the cycle and date and not make the same mistakes that I have in the past and how do I keep it going forward kind of thing? So I just, I just feel like if I were to meet somebody, right, I mean, everyone's got. the honeymoon phase, but they want to happen to when that honeymoon phase ends. Like, that's a big thing to think about, right? Because then you're like, okay, you know, like all the things that happen in the honeymoon phase, I don't have to list them out, are like not as like electric, you know, anymore, right?

And all these things. It's just all these things. And maybe you're right. Maybe what I told myself is that I do want a person that I look at with like awe. And I'm like, ah, right? Say that we're at like a party. I see that person across the room. I'm like,

that is my person right there. She is. Look at her. She's mine. You know, and not just, you know, beauty,

but like, and all these things. Yeah. Right? And maybe I just haven't, you know, I had one-on-one end of the spectrum

who was mean as hell to me. And I ate it up, like with a fork and knife. And, and I just want to find someone maybe who's like, you know, in the middle, of what I've dated perhaps.

Okay. If that answered the question that you asked me. Sorry, but there's no right wrong. Just, you know. A new year, colder days. This is the moment your winter wardrobe really has to deliver. And if you're craving a winter reset, start with pieces truly made to last season after season.

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for free shipping on your order in 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Quinn's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash V-I-A-L for free shipping in 365 day returns. Quince.com slash V-I-A-L-L. When I met you at BravoCon, I was talking to get you to come on the show and talk about. I think that was the turning point, by the way. Oh, great. I can see you in person. That's usually, I feel like that's, you have these ideas of people that you see online.

And then the second you meet him in person, you're like, oh, they're, a human and I'm a human and like we can get on, seem like an all right guy. I feel like we're good at our job and so it comes across as like, you know, I imagine you don't pay that close of attention to our show. Yeah, yeah, I just see clips. I see clips. So I can see how you've all been waiting for. And somebody has like approached me before too and they were like beside themselves. They told me I couldn't do the file files. I was like, darling, your priorities are so out of of whack right now that you think that it's like, come on. Like, you'll be fine. You'll be, you'll be fine. But hey, this impact that you have, right? Yeah. Well, so congrats by.

Thank you. But when I brought up, it was a moment, because I want to dive into Craig here, a little bit of a relationship. Sure. We don't have enough time to unpack. Okay. We do our best. You know, when it comes to Bravo world in general, I am fascinated to someone who comes from a different reality world in terms of like the reality how how real is it in the sense that it's just a different world to do one season in a controlled environment like a bachelor world versus like this ongoing man Craig had a new go Craig there you go an ongoing epithetic where you're like really showing your lives and then doing these scenes with friends like I just think you know to do what you guys do you guys have to be willing to lean in often and and maybe be willing to

talk about things that in any other situation you might be like, I don't know. And this is all to say that like sometimes I always wonder when I see you guys fight on TV and really get into it. Like for example, that, I think it was, was it you and Craig? That kitchen scene this season.

It almost seemed like you guys were like, all right, for you newbies out here, here's how you do this. Yeah, like Sally, Molly, watch and learn. And I'm like, you know, I sometimes wonder it's just like, are they just kind of leaning in? Or is this, are they, are they mad at each other? Okay.

And when I met you at BravoConn and I brought up Craig's name, I felt like you had like a visceral reaction. Like, you were. That's not good. You're like, let me go back to my state of mind. But like, only to say that. When I saw you, I'd just seen Craig. Okay. And he said something to you that made me roll my eyes so hard.

They almost fell out of my fucking head. And then I saw you. And I was like. Oh, my God. Not this fucking guy. Yeah. But anyhow, you know, what is your, like, yeah, I mean, unpacked. What is your relationship with Craig?

How are you guys today? Let's start there. Yeah. So let's end there. Okay. Okay. And then we'll start with, you know, you saying, like, you know, lean into it. And obviously one of the bigger questions that I always get is, you know, is it real?

And it's like, dude, yes, right? So, you know, men, okay? Typically men are like, all right, let's not talk about it. this. Let's just like sweeping on the run and let's just keep it moving. And Craig and I are no different. Okay. But like then we get on camera and I'm not saying that. I perform. I'm just saying that it is our job. It's your job. I can't leave here and text you and be like, Natalie's so fucking annoying. Like you just got to say it. Right? You've got to say it because the audience can't. I mean, now they can because you know, you send text. But no, no, no. You have to say it. Right. And so that's kind of,

And especially if a button gets pushed. And I'll admit, I'm a master Craig button pusher. You do know the buttons to push. And so then that evokes a response from him. And then he'll say something that I fucking wholeheartedly disagree with to the core of my being. And that just, you know, and you get into it back and forth with either Shep or Craig. And it's like, buckle up. Like, you're all ready to just go, right?

because they will even, like, admit they want to hurt you with, you know, their words. And words do, you know, hurt me. But I'm like, no, it doesn't hurt me today. And that's like kind of where that, right, because off camera, you know, I'll see, Craig. I'm not like, you mother, I've heard what you said about me and this, but, you know, that doesn't happen. Like, we don't talk about that stuff. We don't talk about that stuff because, gosh, what, I'm.

a terrible way to live to just be just up in arms at all times. I have lots of shit that I want to say to Craig at the reunion. And I, you know, we'll say those things and hopefully can get them out so I can just move on, right? And move on and allow Craig to continue to live his life and whatever manner that he chooses to live it. And I guess that there is a like point in time when, like, sometimes I'm sitting there at a dinner table.

I'm like, all right, I'm ready to. role. And other times I'm like, can we just not do this today? And like, you'll see that at different points, you know, in this season where someone's like, all right, well, you and Craig got to talk now, because this is the first time you've talked. It's like, I just don't want to do it. I just don't want to do it in front of all my friends. I want to have fun with my friends tonight. And it can confuse. Craig would be the first one to say, he's like, you know, he gets mad. He said it to me at my birthday, which is coming up, which has already been played. So I can talk about it where he's like, know it and you act differently off camera than on camera.

I'm like, dude, why? Because I don't yell at you off camera every time I see you. Like, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. But I will tell you the real shit about you that pisses me off when I do see you and you push the button. Do you feel like Craig values y'all's friendship? And you know what? You know, this is one of those things that I hope that his assistant tells him when he listens to it, you know, for him.

is that I question it. I've begun to question it more and more. Have you always questioned it? No. Dude, Craig and I's friendship was like, you know, easy as.

It was, I mean, you know, you didn't think about it, you know? And now sometimes, more often than not, I do wonder.

You know, it's interesting, Nia and I will have conversations a lot. And I'll be quick to say things like, they're not your friends. or they're not our friends. And, you know, we are, you know, we're married, we have a kid. We are very, like, hyper-focused on, like, what's in front of us, our world.

So, like, it's easy for us to be like, listen. And it's not, it's no disrespect. It's just more like, to people, we really, when it means friend, like, these are our expectations in our head, right? And I guess my question to you, it's like, you know, last season when this was talked about, when the whole podcast ended and you were getting, and you guys were fighting. I understood what Craig was, I guess, trying to articulate in a sense where he was this more like, hey, this is what I want to do and this is my life now.

Do you feel like, I guess I'm curious, where do you feel like Craig's letting you down in your friendship where could Craig find his person, focus on his career, and still be a good friend to you? Because like, Craig talks like, hey, I'm not a bad friend. I just have other shit going on and you, you know, you want to like party like we're in college now and I don't want to do that anymore. And he like paints this picture of your expectations. Do you think that's unfair of Craig to kind of put that on you?

And I guess where is he missing the mark in your friendship? Assuming that like he's still, he is the guy who like loves being in a relationship and he's got his pillows and he wants to like build those businesses up. So, in the short answer is yes, you know. I do feel that Craig is missing the word. Now, the longer answer on just friendship in general, I mean, far be it for me to put friendship in a box and what everyone should do to like another friend in order to call it friendship, right?

Friendship means something to me, that it means something to you, that it means something to you. And make no mistake that both of us have received so many DMs of people being like, Craig isn't your friend. And I know that Craig has gotten 100 DMs saying, Austin isn't your friend. And like that is tough sometimes to see. And I'm glad, you know, for the most part, you know, we've both been like, all right,

you know, fuck off, Linda. Like, because it's just so silly, right? It's like, you know. And sometimes I'm like, you're right. You know, especially when I'm heated, right? I'm like, I would never like yell at Craig when I was frustrated, you know, by him and accuse him of cheating. Like I would never, ever, ever do that.

Like that to me is like, that was a while. I can't believe. That was wild. I can't believe that that left your mouth, you know? Because I'm assuming you're thinking. And that was like the beginning of me being like, all right, dude, you and I are, are just like, you know, sort of friends, especially during, you know, filming. I was like, I'm done with this shit. Like the first second that is back, it's pushed against the wall.

I see this like ugly human. rear its head. And it's something that I've said to him since, you know, filming, right? So, like, I'm not, you know, nervous that, you know, this is out there. And I'm very interested to hear what his response is when I see him on the couch. But it's just like, dude, that is like, and I'm not saying like, dude, you know what happens in Vegas, you know, stays in Vegas. It's not even it. It's just like, what? You heard like a rumor from Shep and you just decided to lob it out there. I'm assuming in that moment, you must have been like, what the fuck are you, doing because I'm assuming, Craig may have wrong, you're thinking, you know what you're doing, Craig,

because you operate in this world and the things that come out of your mouth, get platformed, and you make them a thing, and they get recorded. And whether it's true or not, you're going to get people talking. This is going to be like a two-week-long thing when it airs. Yeah. Once an accusation comes out, it's just like you're already guilty in some people's eyes, and you will never live it down. Sure.

And you will be, five years from now, assuming you are still on TV, you will probably, like, it won't be as much, we won't, you know, we won't be talking about, but five years from now, you might, like, run into someone

or get a DM for someone who, like, brings this shit up from five years ago because that's how this world works. Dude, it is how this world works. And that is definitely, thank you for saying that. That is definitely part of the reason where I was like, dude,

you know the weight that are, Words can carry on this show. Can't believe you so callously and thoughtlessly just, like, threw this out there about one of your, quote, unquote, best friends. I just can't, just can't believe it. It also was, and I think some fans are even under the speculation that, like, this was, this had to have been something that was, like, there had to have been a bigger story because this, like, two girls come up to Shep and they say, like, everyone's kind of like,

What the, like who? Okay? Like, who believes that, first of all? I mean, look, I was pissed at Shep too because, you know, once that that kind of happened, then it came to my attention that Shep had gone to like four different people and was like, I'm not going to say anything, but. And I'm like, what do you think happens when you tell four people who are on a TV show, you know, this thing.

Like, and by the way, Shep and I talk all the time. We're like, dude, you know that if you tell something to Craig, he will bring it up in a time of need. Don't do that. And the fact that that's what he did was like the biggest head scratcher to me. Do you feel like... And that really hurt to it. And then for Sheper, throw up his hands, be like, I didn't, I didn't say it. I'm like, dude, you let their, like, like, you pulled the pin. You gave it to Craig. And before it blew up, he handed it back to you. And y'all didn't even ask me about that, but I just like, veered there. Because I think that it's a, right, okay, because I think that is kind of like the bigger

of like what what friendship means to you and and you know the overlying kind of thing of like how can someone be like a better friend now not answered that question the word is simple it's called bounce right and like you have a balance of like dude I understand that you know

you have a girlfriend and I have friends that have kids and like are married and stuff and I see them more than Craig and that's the point that's I think also like the sentence Shep could say something that would ruin your life right now to someone who is supposed to be their friend is just like a sentence that should never come out of someone's mouth. And then people were all, like, they're all upon me.

You know, Austin, well, you pushed Craig. I'm like, it makes me think, okay, I'm like a movie quote guy, but it makes me think, and this is so dumb. But this scene from American wedding, okay, they're these like little punk kids. They splash Jim and his friends with their jet ski. Stiffler gets revenge by tying up their jet skis to a truck and like vandalizing and destroying their like, I mean, $50,000 property. And like that's what happened. Like I splashed Craig and he tried to like destroy my shit.

But also the way that he thought that that is like a life ruining thing. I'm like, dude, you and I just view things differently because my girlfriend immediately was like, I'm sorry that Craig sucks. I'm sorry that he's so crazy. It wasn't like the blow up that he thought that it was going to be. I'm like, we just few things differently, dude. Like you think that that scandal is the end scandal is like, you know, the end of, you know, at all, right? Because Craig is very worried about, you know, optics.

And that's where we differ. Yeah. That's just where we differ. And then that's where you see him, you know, begin to hang out, you know, Charlie and Sally. and he's like, cool, it's like, hang in it. And his buddy Corey is coming into Charleston a lot, and they're hanging. And I'm like, okay, Craig, you know? But I was in a relationship and just categorically misrepresented or misquoted or misquoted

or mis, just by Craig. Like his, like him trying to pin me. down as someone who wasn't happy relationship. I'm like, dude. So, so I was jealous of you when you were in a relationship and now I'm jealous of you and you're not in a relationship. It's just like, come on, man. I don't know what, like, and by the way, the relationship, you know, that I had, if,

if I wanted to be at the after party, which was Shep and Craig and Sally in a fucking hot tub, then I could have been in that hot tub and my girlfriend would have been like, okay, cool, you know, like, that's the relationship, you know, that I had. And you can still. Because she was secure. And that was the sexiest part about it. So like this after party like Austin wants to be in a hanta brother. If I wanted to be there, then I would have been there.

Well, that's the thing. You can still be envious. You can be like, oh, that's cool to get that freedom and still want to be in a relationship. And that's what I told him when we went to lunch in one of the episodes. I was like, yeah, man, you know, like there is a part of me that is, you know, like, envious of not not the whole part of like. Like, dude, she's just dragging me down. And I wish I was single so I could just party in your hot tub. Like, that's not what I was saying.

I thought that I was- If you're calling them up every five minutes, so what are you doing now? Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. It's just trying not to get all worked up about it, but it's just like you think that you're talking to a friend about the, like, grass being greener, which I think it always will be greener, right? Like, you know, married kids and like, you might be like,

oh, man, tell me about Vegas. Right? Like, so what? I'm also, that doesn't mean that you don't want like a wife and kid. It just means, dude, tell me about Vegas as like a single person, you heathen. I'm also assuming you've opened up to Craig, like you've opened up to us today about, you know, commitment issues or things that you worry about. So shouldn't he know that about you? And then therefore not necessarily like just throw it in your face.

In some ways, man, in some ways, man, in some ways, Craig and I are super deep with each other. and in other ways, the way that he didn't know much about my relationship, because he didn't really seem to have an interest in my relationship. So I was like, all right, you know, he's not going to ask. I'm not going to tell. That is like another part, maybe where maybe sometimes we don't ask each other, the questions that, you know, we should. So, so that I, like, can better get to know his inner psyche

and vice versa. But that's a tall order with Craig. It's a tall order of Craig. I'm curious. It seems like you think Craig. He's, you know, smart kind of calculated in a way. I can be calculated. It doesn't always mean a bad thing.

So it seems like you can explain why Craig would say something out of pocket. But have you figured out why Shep ran his mouth the way he did in a way? Because he should know better too. And it's more like, it's like, oh, Craig's maybe being Craig and I'm mad. at Craig, but like, why did Chef operate that? That's a good question. Because I think that me and Shep are not calculated at all. I just kind of do, do, do, do, do.

And then I put my foot in it and then I have to deal with it or I show up somewhere. And Shep is not a calculated person either. You know, he just kind of exists. And I haven't really gotten to the bottom of that all that I could do. do is just kind of hear him out when he told me that he was so sorry and that he would kind of do anything that it took to prove to me that, you know, my friendship means something to him. And dude, at the end of the day, I'm simple like that. Like, that's all that I want to hear, you know, and, you know, believe it.

Because I'm going to fuck up too, which I did just recently, you know, was chef. And I called them to lunch and I was like, hey, I just want to like, you know, and aired out. Like, I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry that that came back to you. You know, never should have said that. And I'm so sorry, you know, but that's what's, like, important is doing that kind of shit. So the other person knows you fucking care about them.

After the podcast with you and Craig kind of went up in flames or why get into business with him again and open up, by the way. That was dirt. Like, we had started the process of opening the business during podcast. Us podcasting. Gotcha. And we had been approached by very good friends being like, I think it's time that we showed I mean, that had been something that that I've been having.

Did it make you more worried once the podcast ended of like, fuck now we're in this together. Is this, how is this going to go? This is where I'm going to maybe lose you, but try to try it. Just try. Okay.

I did not say like, oh man, in the podcast, you know, what happened to flames. So how do I get out of this bar deal? Because me and Craigor did that, that thought just didn't really cross my mind. Because we have a wonderful operating partners and knew that I just like doing stuff with friends.

You know, even if I think that they're being shitty sometimes, which Craig can tell you that he thinks that I'm being shitty too, right? It's like a Spider-Man meme. Like, we'll always do this. And I'm certainly not here to make anybody take an Austin's side. That's that I told myself that today coming on here where I was like, I just want to say my perspective. Not, not, you know, be, you know, Team Austin over Team Craig or over Team Sheper, anything like that. So it's just my perspective on things, a little kind of, you know, inner working into the brain of Austin. But also like to that point, like doing a podcast and running a bar, just completely two different things.

Right, because it turned into just straight, I know that I was feeling like this. So Craig must have also been feeling like this where we would sit down and be like, all right, when are you free this week? And okay, Tuesday at four, I mean, Thursday at, you know, six o'clock. And I know that more often than not, it was like a countdown to like, I have to jump on and do this thing for 45 minutes, you know?

And I know that he was feeling that that way too. So I think that it was a much needed separation for us. And then when we saw each other, it wouldn't be like, hey, dude, right? It'd be like more meaningful and so it was just needed. Even though like I miss it, man, I miss the podcast. Yeah. Knowing that you think that at times maybe Craig can be a little strategic,

I'm curious what you think Craig's perspective and point of view. His real one, not his like on camera, what he would tell someone if he came on this podcast or an on the fly interview. Like if you and Craig were just like in a room, just you two, no cameras. No. What do you think his real life perspective is on your relationship? Okay, so to start with that, I just remember that last season. I saw a clip of him with Madison.

And, you know, he was like, I don't know me. What more than Austin, you know, wants for me? And it's like, I just don't think it's that hard, you know? Like you can call me to go grab, met some chicken wings. I don't give a shit if you don't drink a beer, man. That doesn't bother me. We don't need shots, you know, like because this past, you know, a year and a half and when I was talking to Craig about, you know, being a better friend or, you know, whatever. And I was dating someone.

So, like, you know, the way that I was operating was totally different too. I was like dinner and then home guy, right? You know, whereas, you know, chef's like, let's go to the bar afterwards. And like, dude, what's for me at the bar past 10 o'clock? There's no reason to go, right? Unless it was like a thing, right? Like an event. like a special occasion.

And I just like wish that Craig would have maybe taken the time at, at that point. Like, okay, well, Austin is, you know, different and kind of operating in a different manner because he's

dating someone and it's not the same as when he was single. And it's almost like he, he just wanted to put it in a box of like, Austin wants me to go out and get drunk with them. Like, what are you, you know? So it's just like the miscommunication thing and like the miscategorizing.

categorizing one another. I certainly find myself in my mind in the shower, being very hard on Craig, right? Very, very hard on Craig. And the showers. Which would surprise nobody here. What was the original question? Craig's perspective.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That if Craig, you know, we're sitting here, I think that it would bum me out a bit, right? Like if I was like a fly on the wall and Craig was doing this, that it would bum me out at his, at like what he thinks, you know, that I think. I'd be like, dude, that's so wrong, so wrong. How can you miss the mark? So hard.

Do you know each other's love languages? I'll tell you what. Craigs is not physical touch. It's not physical touch. It's, it's been really funny when someone goes out and tries to hug Craig that, like, he doesn't know. He's like, yeah, it's like, away from me. What even at mine is? Quality time.

I wouldn't say quality time because Audrey was long distance. Words of affirmation or physical touch. And yeah, physical touch, words of affirmation. Yeah. And I would throw in quality time there. But I guess the way that I categorized it in the show, me and Audrey, by the way, just to clear it up, is like I made it seem like I saw her so minimal. And kind of what I meant was I see her three to five times a month for like five. days at a time. So she would come in on like a Thursday and leave on a Monday or coming on a

Wednesday and leave on a Monday. And then when she left is when I would be like, okay, man, just sitting on the couch, you know, solo is great. I mean, I feel like when anyone feels that way. If like, man, their husband or wife, you know, goes away on a trip. They're like, okay, I mean, this, I mean, this is kind of nice, you know, sit on the couch. She's, you know, solo, man, just watching what I want to watch anyways. And then Craig's love languages are, I think he likes gifts of service. Access of service. And gift giving.

Yeah, he might like some words of affirmation. What are your thoughts on his social media activity? Yeah. And how much do you think he enjoys Capcutt? What's that? They're like editing app that like is doing things in slow motion and black and white. Look, I think exactly what you think. Okay.

You know, but like who am I to cut off someone's like, my creative? of shoes. Right? It's not typically things that I would post, even posting pictures of my biceps in like a car mirror reflection is not what I'm doing. I'm not one to judge. There are many people who think, though, off, you know,

going off that social media that like, you know, last season it was all, it was the page and Craig fallout. You know, everything was about that. This season, Craig is singed, right we got single craig

Craig's drinking again Craig's in the comments arguing with fans it is giving a little like meltdownish kind of behavior is that authentic or is Craig the person who you think is very in tune to what people think and calculated do you think there's a method

to the madness or do you think this is like Craig authentically trying to find himself post a really heartbreaking end to a relationship I think that has he like been crashed out on anyone in the comments like like you know rude? No no no he's just yeah he's bothering which I would be like why are you bothering right? Yeah like that that was like a cardinal sin a couple years ago that I have always here and there thrown out like a comment back to someone else he'd lecture you and he didn't

he'd lecture me yeah and so it's interesting to see it I think it's it's a bit of a spy Because, you know, he's definitely texted some cast and, you know, things of that nature, which, um, which is just like not what I'm used to with, right? I know, it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, man, let it go. But, you know, it's, it's not a practice of, of what you preach. Um, you and Madison, how have y'all been able to really, I mean, from her calling you a bait a bitch to oyster shooters while she's pregnant? That fucking definitely came.

out of Craig's mouth. Like the beta bitch thing. Okay. So how we were able to turn this thing around, I think that there was a year when we broke up and I had like a visceral reaction to hearing her name or, you know, like a fan can come up to me and be like, oh, maybe love medicine. I'd be like, cool. you know and I feel like everyone needs to go through that period of like I don't want to talk about my ex

and in fact my ex I don't like my ex you know and then you kind of make it past that and that's when you can like truly when when you're unbothered is such a freeing thing you can say that you know you're unbothered but we know that you are bothered and so you are truly unbothered so like when I finally got to the place of being unbothered because I can wholeheartedly admit that I was bothered, you know, for a year. I was, I was pressed. I was whatever word that you want to use. And then when you're unbothered, it's so freeing, right? And it's like something that I saw was Shepp and Taylor. Shep didn't give Taylor the time to process it and to, that's why that next season, she was just like, fuck you, She was like, fuck you. You know,

boom, boom, boom. Because they didn't have the time to separate and then for her to truly be over it. And I saw that and I was like, okay, we are going to move on from this Madison because at the core of it, you and I used to make each other laugh. And I think that we can do that again. And I'm happy for you. I'm happy to be out of it. And I'm happy, you know, for you. And we can just, you know, move on now and maybe be what we were always supposed to be. And that's gay best friends. Is there anything, was there any part of you that for any moment post breakup thought, I can't do this show with her. Yeah, there was like a moment where I was like,

do I really want to come back and just torture myself for the whole filming period? And then while it airs and then the reunion and it's like, funny enough, man, it was Craig. It was Craigman who was giving me the advice of like, look, man, filming with your ex sucks, right? And it made me like unhappy in this and that. But it was one of those things where it was like, dude, what are you just going to be like a child? about this, you know, forever, like, you have two choices to make, you know? You either, like, let this man consume you and, like, fuck up something good in your life or, or you just glide past it and make it work. Did it hurt your feelings when Brett said to throw away the big teddy bear

that you got? I don't think that that was organic at all. Okay. You and Brett have a good relationship. Y'all are. Yeah. I mean, look, like, I don't text them or, you know, or any of this stuff, right? because, but like, I try to be like, okay, I'm not going to text Madison past like a certain time and I'm not going to, you know, I mean, bravocom is different, you know, that like, we were all out and calling and text me and one another. Like, man, where are you at two o'clock in the morning? And they're like, but, you know, for the most part, I'm like, I'm trying to respect the relationship and respect them and just happy that, that, you know, they're happy.

And I truly, and I truly mean that. Do you ever think Shep will settle down? Shep and I had to talk about this the other day. We were driving back from the Hamptons. We were there for the Ryder Cup, and we were driving back. And I just flat out was like, do you actually think, Shep, that like we, right? Because I'm not above the question either of like that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that we're going to find someone that we want to settle down with. And I can tell you in that frank conversation that he wants it.

he hopes that that girl is out there, that, you know, I think that he has a high bar of what he wants. But ultimately, he like, you know, he wants to live in a country club and play golf a lot and, you know, have a girl that comes from good background as well and someone who can keep up with him in conversation. And I do think that he wants it. Now, do I think that it's going to happen? That's a different question. I don't know. If you were to cycle analyze, Shep, a little bit. Where do you think, because, right, he has the standards and, you know, perfect's hard to find.

But regardless of if he finds a thing he's looking for, where are things in areas in his life, you think he maybe need to tweak or improve to make himself a better partner? Like, you know, my introduction to Shep was the fallout of him and Taylor. And I think Shep DM me when I first started watching Southern Charm because I was I was critical of you guys. And I think more specific, Shep, I give him credit for reaching out to me. But yeah, I was critical because he didn't come across as the best partner to Taylor. Yeah. But that's, again, just for my son TV.

But if there is there anything where you think would be a fair criticism that you think he could work on, that if he does find his perfect, that she will reciprocate that affection? Yeah. Yeah. I do. And it's not like one thing that I'm going to pinpoint, right? Or it's like he needs to curtail his. It's more so like the overall mentality. Okay.

So if you, I strongly think because of what just happened to me, right? We're like, I got in a relationship and it took me like three months to get, you know, used to it, right? Like, oh, I'm dating someone and I shouldn't be going out like this and I shouldn't be doing this, you know, and now you have to back off all the people that, you know, you were texting or like, you know, DMing prior to dating that person. And it's kind of like a slow, right? It's not just like, cold turkey chopped, goodbye, right?

And so for Shep, I was like, the way that you live your life and the way you have been living your life for 46 years is as like a single person who does what he wants, when he wants at the drop of the dime. And if you just think that you're going to like meet someone who probably is not going to live in Charleston because he wants someone who is like a worldly being, right? So if you were to date, you know, Sienna, the girl that lived in the Bahamas, do you truly think that you're not going to, like, sleep with another girl while, while you're not seeing her, but, like, once every other month?

Like, do you really think that you can just cold turkey the life that you're used to living and just start dating someone with, you know, your whole heart? The answer is no. The answer is no. So I don't know what the answer is to that question, but Shep, lives a very single lifestyle. Yeah, is it a question? Is he willing to change?

How are you just going to flip a switch? You know what I'm saying? And I don't know if that's possible to just flip a switch. I mean, the way you're describing it really reminded when Nelly and I started dating, before we became boyfriend and girlfriend, I was essentially single for a decade. If you take out bachelor world and the relationships I get into as a result of being in that world, I was essentially single for a decade. And I remember when we were like, all right, we're going to do this.

And she was in Savannah. I was in L.A. You just described, I had a ton of women friends. Yeah. And I just, like, I didn't think about, like, I wasn't, you know, I was all well-intentioned. A lot of potonic women friends. And then we were, like, hanging out. And she's like, what are you doing?

I'm like, oh, so-and-so's over. And I had, like, these two. He's having all these girls coming over to see his new house. And I was like, yeah, no, I can't do that shit anymore. Not that I was doing anything wrong. Or not that I can do it. I just really have to move differently. I have to like check in with her.

What are you comfortable with? What are you not comfortable? You know, it was like it. And because I was so used to for so long, doing whatever the fuck I wanted when I wanted to. I had to have a bit of a, oh,

if I want to do this, I have to do it differently. But it wasn't like, I didn't have to take a course. Yeah. You know, it wasn't like I just had to like tamp in to like being the boyfriend. I knew I could be that I was,

you know, so many years before. but I knew how to do it. I think that there's like a bit of a runway needed almost, right? You start talking to someone and you know that it's going to lead to like, you know, my boyfriend, girlfriend, right? As high school is that sounds,

but that's exactly, you know, what it is. And you know that it's, it's leading there and during that time, like you begin to pull back from all the other things. And I just like question if Shep will be able to do, do that, you know, just given how long that he's been single and doing his thing.

Sally and Taylor have been a little back and forth online. We have had Taylor on this show several times. We love her. We're big fans of her. Yeah, her brand reset is. Love her special. Where do you land on all that stuff? Do you kind of keep in contact with Taylor? Are you kind of like at your, you know, you're off the show, you're in a relationship. This is kind of like we're not really any yeah yeah i mean taylor and i were always good i haven't spoken to taylor in a while uh basically since the end of season 10 right we were we were good on the on the reunion and then i think after that right because we filmed the reunion before all the episodes there and and then i don't know see i don't even like want to drag her back into this or be like entangled you know with her i have always

thought so, so highly of Taylor. I think that Shep did a number on her. Sorry, Shep. And I think... Would you think that Shep would agree with that at this point? I think that that, you know, he would, but he would frame it differently. Like, look, and she was young and she came into this thing. And, you know, this guy that's been on the show, you know, for eight, nine years.

And she's, you know, 27. And I, you know, showed her like a whole new world. And, you know, and then for all that... So the hero. You don't say. Right. But, but I know that that chef would also say, I care about her like a great deal and she has a wonderful family and, you know, this and that and that, right? And, and you would speak very, very highly of her. But I just think that that the internet did a number on Taylor 2. And for

someone who truly is like a sweethearted person. Yeah. And that that really messed with her. And so it's not, you know just shep it's like shep caused her to spiral a little bit and she showed a side of her that she's not really used to having a show in the internet blah blah blah blah blah blah and then and then that didn't make things any better and and then she was like i'm getting the hell out of here yeah you know i mean the internet is not very kind kind in general and i think when it comes to pretty girls who seems sweet innocent like i mean like i every day feel like i have to apologize to my wife for the shit that she receives as a result of being my wife or whatever. And they want to find something wrong with someone who doesn't look there's anything wrong with them.

Right. And do you think, I'm curious, do you think Shep could have done a better job of protecting Taylor or prepping her for that? See, I just don't think that that she wanted his help after they broke up, right? She was like, stay over there, please. And Shep couldn't do it. He couldn't do it, right? And so then the things with her and Sally is like, she probably just saw like a comment that made her knee jerk, you know, and then it caught some, you know, legs.

And then, you know, Sally kind of was like, what the fuck? You know, what the fuck? And so many times I've like let people say, man, whatever they want and my costume just don't, you know, respond. It's just going to get bigger, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. and it's like a helpless feeling, you know, sometimes, right? I mean, someone says like a nasty thing about you. And then you're like, all right, I'm just going to let it go. And it's like, God, have a backbone, right?

And so I think that that's what happened with Sally. She was like, no, I'm not just going to let the slide and you can't just say whatever that you want to about me. And she responded in her manner. And I think that she had every right to do so. I do feel like it stemmed from last season when it was Sally's first time, Taylor's last season, Sally's first time. There was a lot of like, I dated drugs, you dated my eye. Yeah. But yeah, it has very much transpired. Yeah.

At all. It has gotten nasty at all. Have you, you're speaking of previous co-stars, Catherine Dennis has been in the news for her recent arrest for her DUI. Have you spoken to her? No. You checked in. You have not. No. Look, this is a very tricky one because I think that I've always been good and aligned in communication with Catherine. And then she kind of went online and started to post some things about me and Crette. Like at one point, you know, she posted something on on the wedding venue that Craig and I have a hand in and she posted something there. You know, that was kind of nasty. And I was like, what? And I went for business. What is this coming? Where's this coming from? Right. And rather than, you know, respond to it as we just talked about.

well, I just didn't, you know, just let it go. Like, just let it go. And so eventually just kind of, you know, fade off. And I was confused by it. And I didn't really know what to do. I didn't know what the right, like, course of action was. I didn't know if I should reach out to her and be like, hey, I'm here. I just didn't know what to do.

So I kind of, I kind of just let it go. Kind of just let it go. But there are some comments out there and then, you know, some things that, you know, posted. I was just confused. It's like, where's just coming from? I haven't heard from you in two years. Was they Sienna stuff with Shep? Was that all like real? Because that was some of the most hilarious, awkward. I think we've all had moments, especially in adult life where you, you know, when you're 19, you do like stuff like that. Sure. And you lose yourself. And then you watch the tape back, so to speak. Most, most people don't get the opportunity to literally watch a tape back.

But yeah, it was, it was hilarious. Also, a top. awkward watch in the best possible way. But I am just like, I was a little like, there's like, there's no way this is real. There's this no way that chef would do that. But I just had to ask. Look, I don't know because it was strange for me too. And how hook line and sinker that, you know, he went and how he was genuinely sad when, you know,

she didn't respond to him. This is prior to going to the Bahamas when she didn't respond to him when she was an international flight, he hadn't heard from him 24 hours. And I was like, ship, you guys have hung out four times, you know? What are you so bent out of shape for? I mean, far be it for me to tell someone how to like emote, right? I mean, maybe he really was. And according to him, you know, they said really nice things to one another.

And so Elward got dropped. Then I think that he just like went in. And then the, that's awesome. And then, yeah. And then the amateur psycho analysis from Craig and I were that, was that pretty obvious that he missed what he had with Taylor and then he wanted to find it, you know, someone else. Maybe he rushed into it, which, well, there's no maybe. He clearly did.

And then she was like, whoa. Yeah, like, whoa. Do you think there's any part of a chef that misses Taylor or things he screwed it up? Well, he knows that he screwed it up. Yeah. Yeah, but there's knowing, hey, I screwed it up, and then there's literally regret it it being like, yeah, I mean, that was. I think so, yes.

That was the one who got away. I think so. Wow. You know, I'm not saying that, you know, he writes in his journal about it every night, but, but, um, yes. Okay. But he was sitting here. I think that he would say yes to you would say yes to say,

only one more question. Okay. Unless you, there's anything you want to get off your chest, but I've had a ton of fun, man. This has been really fun getting to know you. I appreciate you opening up. It's been Gavin, right? Because as I texted you, right, you know, there's no like, Austin a Taylor thing that I have to flesh out, you know, this year.

There's no like, oh, geez. So I was like, all right, let's just, you know, hang and talk. Well, knowing that, like, again, I appreciate you being open and honest and talking about your friends. And, you know, certainly we hope to still, you know, get Shep out of the St. Barton onto our couch someday. Craig keeps telling me he's going to do it, but Craig says things. Sure.

This might spark it, by the way. Pardon me? This might spark it. Yeah, I mean, depending how. We'll see. But to that, you know, it's going to hear something. He's like, uh-uh, I'm setting the record straight. It's always tough doing this because, like, I don't know what people think, but we don't

want to piss anyone off. This is the world we operate in. You operate in it, but they're often hurt feelings. So despite everything we just talked about, I am curious knowing that, you know, right now you think Craig could be a better friend, but do you feel like your relationship with Craig is built to last in a sense? Is he more like a brother where it's like, hey, man, sometimes I hate them and sometimes we're not talking, but like this guy.

he'll always be my friend, or is there a world where you and Craig, I guess, don't make it in a way where you're just like, hey, you know, it was good while it lasted, but like, we've grown apart and, you know, I just don't know if we're going to be friends in the future. Yeah. So I start to question that, you know, this year, right? You've asked me earlier, you're like, do you think that Craig values your friendship? And I'm starting to, you know, question that. And that is literally what is happening.

or I'm like, man, I've chalked it up as I was just being brothers for so long. And even you yell at your brother and you know, you bounce back. You're like, whatever. You know, fuck off. Just give me like a second. But, you know, we'll get back to it. You know what I think is like time and time again. Like, all right, let's get this another shot.

Let's get this another shot. Let's, hey, let's forget that one too. Oh, wait. Let's forget that one too until it kind of builds up to this like final talk of Craig and I. having this talk at our finale. And it's just like, for me, it's banging my head against the wall. And like I said, it's not to have my back on this, but from my point of view, I'm like, all you had to do was say it this.

And he might be saying him in the same thing. Like, Austin, what don't you get what I'm saying? And so maybe we just speak different languages. Is his backyard as dope as it looks? Because I would like, I would like to go to a party there. He has dope. I appreciate a good backyard. Like oasis back there.

that I'm, that I'm proud of them for. I, last question from me, we heard a Sally say the second that you and Audrey break up. Yeah. She wants to fuck. So have y'all, how have you and Sally been? Look, it's been a long time since like I've heard someone be that complimentary about me on. It's like, do you fuck with Sally or do you fuck with that? Like, it's been a long time since someone's been that complimentary about me on TV.

You know, normally it's the opposite. These people want to say horrible things on the internet. And the thing that I'll say about Sally is that she lives her life in the open. She lives her life just, you know, out there. And so in many ways, I love the fact that she is on the show because she just not tried to hide her shit. Right. And that's what we want, right? I think she's great.

She's been a great addition. It's what we all want. You know, she's like, I fuck up a lot. But I'm here to tell you about those fuckups. And Sally and I grow close. and we are close now. Like, and she's texting me. I've been four texts from her.

And we have become close. We have become close. But no, you know, we're not dating. And if like that. I really, really like where me and Sally are. And you're going to see all of that. Because as we just said, Sally's not shy about talking about, you know, her feeling. So she certainly lays them out there.

Well, I'm ready to unpack that as the season goes along. Me too. Awesome. It's been so much fun, man. No, it has been fun. Man. Was it, was okay? for you? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. It wasn't as traumatizing as I maybe thought that it was

going to be. Awesome. This was so much fun, man. Thanks for allowing us to get to know you. Good luck the rest of the way. You'll have to come back for one of our reality recap episodes next season to just catch up with us. All right. Austin's in it, huh? Austin's in it. You're in the fan. You're a friend of show now. You know? FOS. Thanks for listening, guys. Bye.