The Viall Files - E1060 Ask Nick - My Mom Cheated. Now I'm in the Middle

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Our first caller was cheated on and she still can't let go. Our second caller is married to a man who refuses to grow up. And our third caller is dragged straight into the middle of her parents' divorce.   "You have to accept what your relationship was and what it wasn't."   Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.    To Order Nick's Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with "Texting Office Hours" in the subject line!    To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   Nature's Sunshine - Get a daily detox with Chlorophyll Stick Packs. Nature's Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order plus free shipping. Go to https://naturessunshine.com and use the code VIALL at checkout. Bilt - Join the loyalty program for renters at https://joinbilt.com/viall  Car Gurus - Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus at https://cargurus.com  David Protein - David is offering our listeners a special deal: buy 4 cartons and get the 5th free when you go to https://davidprotein.com/viall  Revolve - Head to https://revolve.com/viall, and take 15% off your first order with code VIALL.  Legendz - Just go to https://legendz.com and use promo code VIALL   Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:30) - Caller One (47:35) - Caller Two (1:33:36) - Caller Three   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @izeweaver  

If you love your Ask Nick episodes, don't forget, we have our update specials available on VowFiles Plus. So if you love hearing the follow-up stories to your favorite calls, don't forget to subscribe to VialFiles Plus. It's available at VialFiles.com. It's free to sign up for seven days. Check it out. You won't regret it. How's it going? My name's Jessica.

I'm 26 years old, and my boyfriend cheated, and I can't let go. Okay. Tell me about the relationship. Yeah. So it's honestly perfect relationship. relationship about three years ago we met in the gym. I was kind of like a I approached him situation where he was kind of always waving at me and I waved back a couple of times and I was like, okay, are you going to ask me my name or not? And like we kind of hit it off. We spent the last one,

maybe two years together and then I got into my dream PA school. I got sent away to be a physician assistant, which is like my dream and he was going to be there to support it all the way. So we were doing the long distance thing and it was great. We had no problems. Everything was perfect until I came home on November 26th. So it's been about two years and a few months of me doing this about a year into me and him doing the long distance-ish. And I saw that his phone was ringing and it was a girl's name. And I'd never seen this girl's name before, anything like that. I finally kind of got it out of him that he had been cheating on me,

and it had been since pretty much as soon as I moved away. So through the entire relationship where he was seeing me, he was also seeing this girl, and he told me, like, she knew about me. And it was like a bad thing on both of their parts to have gone through this, and everything was not exactly. like his plan, he was so upset about it. He should have never done it. And like, for me, I have like a hard time because I'm kind of one of those like self-aware people that, um, can like pick up on like, okay, this guy's not really telling me the truth. And like all of these

things he's saying doesn't really like add up. But he like, everything that he had said, um, throughout our whole entire relationship was kind of like a lie once I came here. Because like, I would always ask him and say like, oh, don't you feel lonely? No, no, no, I have a dog. Or like, oh, like, I would bring up anything that would have to do with like a girl. And he would be like, no, no, no, I have a girlfriend. I'm only invested in you. There's nothing that you need to be worried about. And so when I found this out, it was like a blindsided thing because I really had no idea. And you found this out like basically a few weeks ago? Yeah. Yeah. And so a couple weeks ago, I found a couple weeks ago, I found a,

out and he like he kind of tried to give me his story and I was like okay get out leave I don't want to talk to you I'm done and so like I was on my like healing journey where I'm like okay I deserve so much better than this but like something didn't sit right with me so I um kind of just like tried to brush it off for a while and he would reach out for like he had like a work phone and there's just like other ways that he could get in contact with me after I blocked him and like he like reached out once here and there and like I blocked all the numbers and like it was fine. Um, but then I saw that this girl and him, like there was a picture that had like floated around like some area that I had seen. And I was like, this is really hurtful that like she's posting these pictures like and the picture was

like dated to like back when we were like built together and like they were like becoming more recent. So I was like, there's no way that this girl really knows it about me. There's no way that this girl could have possibly known about me. So I like screen. shot of the pictures and I sent, I unblocked his number and sent them to him. But I had before I had done that, I had sent the girl a message saying, like, I know that you know about me and like, I want to let you know that like this is like the situation and these are the dates that like we broke up. I just want you to kind of be aware of like everything that kind of happened. And he was like he had no idea that I had sent this message. He had reached out and it was like, I'm going to fix it. Everything's great. Like I'm going to break it off with this girl. and like everything's going to be perfect and we're going to live happily ever after. And, you know, like, I was like, yeah, right, okay. Like, I'm still holding on to the fact that, like, he was so great to me during that whole entire relationship that I was, like, trying to hold on to, like, him being a good person

and, like, this whole situation, like, just, like, not really matching up with the idea of me knowing, like, who he was. And then I kind of found out during the phone call, he was like, I wish you would have let me tell you. I mean, tell her. I wish you would have let me tell her. And I was like, what do you mean? And he got like very, very much upset.

His tone changed. And he was like, she had no idea that me and you were dating. So she was completely blindsided as well. And like the whole message that I sent her was like a very blindsiding thing as well. So he told you that she knew about you. The whole time. And then you. Like immediately after.

Yeah. And then so he lied about that. Yeah. So then I had like he was upset about it and so I was I'm kind of like on this like idea of like well if somebody's going to do something really terrible like I just need to like I just really need to hear it from their mouth like I need to hear it. So I said well here your options either you like own up to what you did and she knows now that like you were cheating on her too and like this is a situation. where like you're going to have to deal with now you lost both of the girls that you were with or um i can actually be nice to you and text her and say actually this was all i was crazy i made that all up none of that was true and i asked him i said what date would you like me to tell her that we broke up so that you you can feel good about this and like have your situation where you can lie to her and

continue on and i didn't really like have any plan on actually doing this but i just wanted to see what made you say that? I think that I really wanted to hear it from him that like he was going to choose the bad person decision. Like he was going to choose the decision that was going to harm both me and her and have like totally like just him for himself. Like I think that that was like you're like setting him up to make another bad decision. Like you want to like see him make this like you almost like, you almost were like, hey, I'll help you lie to this other person to see if he would take debate. Right. And he did. he was like yeah yeah yeah please send it please send it and i was like oh okay and then i hung up on him

i blocked his number and i called the girl and let her know like everything that had happened and she was like oh my gosh i feel so bad i have no idea and like me and her are like okay and everything's fine there like we had talked about everything but at this point now it's like how do i just like I have this picture of this one person that my whole life was like built around. We had plans to go and get married. He had a ring. He had a house that he was buying. Like we had picked out a house together.

He was going to put in. And like he had so many plans for us as soon as I graduated. And it was just like a blind siding moment of like this is a totally different person than the person that I just spoke to on the phone that said, yeah, yeah, yeah, please lie for me so that she knows. it's tough and so yeah and now you're just like what what's you you start you called by saying like you're you can't let go like why can't you let go I just feel like there's like not really anything else for me to do other than to like not respond focus on myself and heal and do all the things

that like obviously like your your podcast like I listen to your podcast and I listen to like anything that you're supposed to be like healing yourself and doing the things for yourself I'm like, yes, I'm doing those things, but what else can I do? Like, I don't sure if, like, anyone can answer that question? It's like, what else can I do to make this, like, kind of like stick in my head that's like, these are two, like, this is the same person in both of these worlds. Well, that's the thing that you have to let go of. You know, you started this call by saying it was a perfect relationship.

And then you proceeded to tell me a story that disqualified, the reality of what you felt like your relationship was. So one, you have to accept, which is hard, what your relationship was and what it wasn't. And you have to stop calling it perfect. And I imagine that it's scary to do because, you know, like you mentioned, you kind of pride yourself and being,

like we all, to some degree, pride ourselves and being judge of character and things like that and having good intuition. But like some people are just good at lying. And like there's a level of, you know, vulnerability. that we all need in relationships. And that vulnerability requires us to, like, trust people at the risk of being lied to and hurt and things like that. And this guy really fucked that up for you, right?

Yeah, for sure. Ruin your trust, you know, it affected your trusting yourself and how, who else can I trust in the future? He was so good at lying to me. Yeah, sometimes there's just nothing you can do about it. and you know, I guess you have to give yourself a little bit of grace to say, you know, like, yeah, it's just like, sometimes it's shitty things happen in relationship and there's some bad people out there. I think what you need to try to stop, you need to just kind of almost in a way forgive yourself. It's like, that's nothing I could have done differently. It sucked. It was just dumb, you know, he lied to me. I chose to trust a guy and he lied to me. And this is the fallout of it. You know, but what you have to stop trying to do, is to preserve the good times, right? There must be some kind of part about you that it's scary, it probably feels scary

to say that was a total waste of my time and I was with someone who just totally lied to me and nothing was real and that sucked, you know? And it probably feels right now there's not much, you know, you're like, what can I learn from this? That it, everyone's a liar that I can't trust people.

That's the lesson, you know, and that's not really the lesson, but I'm sure that's how it feels. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. Yeah, maybe the lesson will reveal itself later. But I think, I think right now you have to remember this is still really raw. It just happened. And I'm guessing a lot of what you're trying to, you're trying not to be sad or, you know, you want these feelings to go away. And so, you know, you mentioned, you know, I'm going to have.

hard time letting go. It sounds like to me you're having a hard time letting go of the life you thought you had and the dreams that you had with this person. And there's maybe a part of you that's like, is there any way to salvage this? Is there any way? Like, how can I justify this? It's probably easier for me to somehow make an excuse for him or, you know, do these like mental gymnastics that make it, you know, so that he's not so evil, which means that if he's not so evil, then I'm not so stupid for believing him. And you're doing all these kind of mental gymnastics. And you're doing all these kind of mental gymnastics, but I think right now, I think it's just okay to tell yourself, like, something shitty happened to me and that's, I didn't deserve that. And I'm really just fucking sad.

And there's going to be a period of time that you are allowed to be sad. And you just have to be okay with that. Like, just give your, you know, it's like, I'm allowed to be sad and crushed, you know, um, I didn't deserve this, you know. Maybe you met a friend, maybe you made a friend out of it. This girl. I don't know. exactly like you had it right on the head but yeah i think you just have to it's just it's so raw you know you're hurt you're blindsided you know but you still have your dream job right yeah and i haven't let it affect anything like that because i know that that's like not something that would benefit any of us like and you still you still live in different places

but i have to go home for three weeks and a week because i've had my final this upcoming week and I'll have to go home and be in the same like area as him like by myself with nothing to do no job no distractions none of that which is also a hard thing to come to terms why are you going home okay because my apartments are like changing over of like town so like this is like the three week breaks that we have that I'll be like back into the town that I was at but but why but why do you have to go there I guess who's there that you're going home to uh just like my apartment back in the hometown that I met him and it's like still open for me to stay there like because I don't have a place to stay like for the three week period and then after the three weeks

are up I can go back because the like apartment lease has like so logistically you just like you're kind of homeless and like you know you're it's not like you're going home for the holidays like I have to be you have to be there well I mean yeah obviously obviously like I probably see my family for like the holiday. But I guess it's a little bit harder because like I can't get a job for like the three weeks to distract myself or I can't do like schoolwork anymore to distract myself because that's kind of all I've done anyway. We're just on this break. So it's just like kind of just sitting with these feelings too. And that's a hard thing to come to too. What about your what are your friends up to these days? Oh, you know, like everybody's got like their job and their work and it's like

nobody wants to hang out on a Monday day like that they got work and things like that like I feel like the schedule is like since like we're we're all like 26 like everyone's got their full time week job I mean obviously I'll see them on the weekends but it is going to be a lot of like time spent by myself because of like the way that things kind of lined up that was kind of where I spent he had taken off all this time to come and like he's he's going to have that time off too but he had taken that time off for his break for his work so that he could see me for those three weeks and we were going to go on a trip and like there's a whole bunch of other things that like had planned well his plans aren't you know very reliable yeah that's true so yeah i you know it's a hard one i know i'm sorry well no i mean it's hard you know it's yeah it's it's hard you don't be sorry you know it's that has no, like, there's no magic thing I can say to, you know,

take your feelings that you're feeling right now away. I think the biggest thing is due is this not beat yourself up. You are a victim in the situation that happens from time to time. I am willing to bet as time passes. You will be able to look back on situations with him and maybe identify some red flags that you, maybe didn't see in the past. And that only might be helpful because again, right now you have this narrative in your

head that you're just like, I just completely blindsided me and everything was perfect. And I completely. But there might just be, I guess, just signs that like he wasn't as honest. You're like done with this guy, right? To be clear, you're not. Yeah, I feel completely done with him. It's just hard to let go of that person that he was. Like it's almost like he died in the way.

Like I don't get to see him anymore and I'll never see him again because he never existed. Yeah. It was like a totally different person. Yeah. That's sad. You know, but it's like don't just try not to romanticize that. He just, yeah, that's the thing. You were, you know, it's not like he just, you were lied to.

Is there anything that like when you're looking back that you're like, man, I guess that makes more sense now. I mean, when I moved here, like around the time that he had told me, like, oh, like you should say we broke up at in July or whatever, he around that time, he had come here and he had said, like, I don't really know what to do right now. Like, I feel very disconnected, but I still love you. I still want to be with you. Everything was like everything I'm still really happy. I just like, feel like I need to get this off your chest. And like, I was like, okay, what we're going to do is we're going to go to therapy. You're going to go to therapy.

You're going to go to see a therapist. And he did. Like, I know he did because I had all stuff on my phone. This is before or after you found out the truth. Before I found out the truth. He was just like, I don't know why I'm sad. I'm sad. I'm sad.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that was like him maybe feeling sad and like not knowing how to like break it off with me. And like that was his way of like trying to do that. But then I was just like, you know, you can go to therapy. Let's set you up.

everything's going to be okay. And so like I set him up and he had like he said, I feel 100% better after going to like six, seven therapy sessions. He's like my therapist even said like we can even meet less if you want and and he graduated and he felt so much better. And we had talked about it. We talked about our feelings very openly. And he had he had left that night thinking like, I don't know what, what I'm going to do. But he had texted me the next day and was like I 100% am all in on us. Like I don't have any like chance of wanting to be with anybody else. And I had asked him if there was somebody else when this happened. I'm like, is there somebody else? Is that like what is making you feel that way? And like he was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even close. But like that was part of where

he was kind of with this girl. So I mean, that's probably the only thing that I can think of. Yeah. I mean, well, there, you know, but that's a good example. So I mean, I guess what do you, what do you, I guess right now, like, what are you struggling? with the most? Just like what else can I do? I know never talk to him again, right? Like that's the obvious. I know like you got to focus on yourself.

Focus on your studies, do all the things that you have to do so that you can be a better person and heal and be better. But like, I just feel like, okay, like I can do all that. But like it doesn't make like, I guess it may be just doesn't make the like make anything like feel any better. Like at this moment, obviously it's pretty fresh. So it's like hard. But like there's other things.

things like I feel like there's got to be something else to do and I don't know like if you can't answer that question because it might not be true there may not be something else. Well that's maybe yeah I think the answer is maybe there isn't anything to do right now. It's so raw like sometimes you just have to let feelings take its course you know like this was traumatic for you. It sucked. It was really painful. It's a scary thing to like feel like you can trust someone and then realize that this person was so comfortable lying to you, someone that you chose to trust and count on and rely on. And That's a scary feeling and traumatizing and scarring and potentially can affect you. And I think right now your problem, I guess if you want to call it that, is that, yeah, you're just, it's, and I understand why, you're just, you want this pain and feeling to go away.

And it just might just take some time for those feelings to run its course, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And also like just like letting go of like the thought of everything that was going to be to. because there was all those plans and, like, knowing that that's not, like, not going to happen anymore, too. I mean, that's the thing. The thing, you know, that's why the thing to, you're like, well, what else can I do?

Well, on one thing, there's nothing you can do right now or nothing I can say to you or nothing you can do in the next, say, 12, 24, you know, the next few days, that's going to go, oh, I feel totally fine now. I'm over it. I'm healed. I've moved on. I'm like, that's a distant memory. That's, like, that's not possible, right?

And I think deep down, what I'm hearing from you is that what you're, that, yeah, what can I do to make this go away? Because I'm sick and tired of hurting. I'm sick and tired of going to bed sad. I'm sick and tired of waking up even sadder. And then simultaneously, it's scary to just accept that like you, you trusted this person. And, you know, like you said, now you're still playing that game we often do in these breakups, which is to, the only thing that kind of sometimes, what's fucked up is like when these moments were really sad like you are right now and you just want to not feel sad to, you know, to, you know, maybe you'll hear a song that reminds you of something or something like, you know, something reminds you of something and you give yourself permission to like,

like, daydream and go into that mental space of just remembering the good times and just kind of thinking about the trip you guys were going to go on and what that would have been like if this didn't have happened. And it's, I think we do it just because it's like a coping mechanism to temporary relieve us of this pain that we, we're just tired of. feeling, you know? And I think, yeah, there's nothing to do to eliminate the pain, but what you can do right now is to make, you know, I know it sounds annoying, is to allow this, what you want to do is to allow yourself to continue to heal and try to avoid doing things mentally that, that, that, that keep you feeling stuck and delay the healing process. So there's things you can do. It's just like not, it's not, it's not

what you want in the moment. Try not to think about these trips. Try not to ruminate about all the things he promised you that he, you know, that you were going to do that he didn't do. Like, clearly he's just a comfortable liar. And it was all bullshit. It was, it was all bullshit. And you, you know, you got played by someone who was just incredibly selfish and self-centered. I'm curious, were there other examples in this past year where you wanted things from him or asked things from him that he was like, I can't do this. And he had excuses for things where why he couldn't give you what you wanted or needed. I mean, I think that we were both very much set on goals in terms of like I was very much, you can only see me this weekend because I am studying for all of these things. I can only see you at this point in time.

And like, we can talk on the phone or whatever, but these are the times. And, like, he was very much adamant on, like, going on those days. And so, like, they were very pre-planned. But I think one of the things that I was, like, kind of thrown off was, is, like, my birthday, I had had, we had done an early birthday for me. But I had mentioned, like, oh, well, I can still see you on my birthday if you want. And he's like, oh, well, I'm working. But, like, that was normal for him working, like, those days.

And, like, we hadn't planned it before. But I really do think that he was so good at lying because he would buy like me and my roommate like tickets to a like a game like to go to a game like oh have fun or like he would he would get groceries for us. Whenever he came up here, it was like he would always buy us dinner. And like there was a lot of like things that I think he did maybe out of guilt or maybe out of like to try to show me that he loves me to. But I think like a lot of like a lot of. the things that he did were very much, like, almost like a cover-up because it, like, I had no idea. Yeah, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I would be careful about that because I just don't want in the future you meeting a guy who just like does care about you and, and goes the extra mile. And I don't want every nice gesture to be like, are you cheating on me? There might just, there might not be anything you can really, you know, he's just a liar. You just have to try not to do the things that we all typically do in these situations is to beat yourself up to like blame you what could

I have done differently how could I have you know I'm so stupid or whatever and it's just like this choice between emotionally beating yourself up thinking that you should have known better or or forgiving him for things you shouldn't forgive him or trying to remember him differently than you should because it's like it makes you feel silly to just accept him for who he is but like sometimes it's like how old are you again you're 26 26 Yeah, and listen, I mean, I'm sure, you know, 20, is you've never been 26. It's not like you, you know, I don't know how you feel, but probably not, you probably don't feel as young as I see you being a lot younger than me. And this is a very shitty situation, but it is something you will get through.

It's not the end of the world, even though I'm sure right now it feels like it. And, you know, you come across as someone who is very disciplined and very goal-oriented and knows what she wants. And you're very, it sounds like you're very good at, like, making. things happen for yourself and you're very good at counting on yourself. And so you can trust yourself and to do things. And so when someone like this enters into your life, it really probably rattles your confidence in yourself. And it feels like, you know, I had everything going and everything, I'm part of my plan was working out. And now my plan has been totally blown up.

But sometimes, like, listen, like, I, there are a lot of situations around your age that I was, you know, I remember going through and a lot of things that felt like the end of the world and they weren't, especially when it came to like romantic relationships falling apart or feeling blinded or lied to or things like that. And it's a scary feeling, but you will get through it and you are only 26. And thank God this happened to you now with this guy. And like this, if nothing else, just might be a reminder. Like right now, you know, I'm, I'm in the golden phase of my life. Like, you know, I, my dreams have come true. Got my wife.

I got my daughter. I mean, it's all, it's like I am, but I've lived enough life not to be like a skeptic or a pessimist or not that I think that, you know, but I, I don't take anything for granted. I'm aware that as great as things are right now and, and me and Natalie talk about this, but like, this could go away, you know? like I don't know what the future is in store for me. And I'm on this kind of heater of like what feels like some really special moments in my life. And I am trying to enjoy it as much as possible. But like life's as full as ups and downs. And you have to ride, you know, you have to when you're up, you have to enjoy the ups while not getting a little, you know, not getting too cocky.

still being, you know, understanding that adversity still will show up at your front door and I don't know when that's going to show up, but, you know, I will be prepared to handle it. And I, you know, I think when we're younger, I remember, you know, when I remember in 26, when an adversity like that showed up, I just never really experienced that kind of disappointment or, or, and it really felt like the end of the world. It really felt like, how how do you get through something like this? And so I imagine you're feeling. similar feelings right now, but not to sound like the old guy or whatever, but this two shall pass. And like, you know, I think it's just like you can, what you want this to do is like allow you

to be more resilient. You will want to get through this and you will get through it. And when you get through it, you have to find that balance to be resilient, understand that like you have to like that pat in the back. I got through that and, but still not lose your trust in people to still be able to be vulnerable, you know, to put yourself out there and still be crushed. know that like, you know, and I say this all the time, like your person is going to break your heart someday, you know, they're going to disappoint you, you know, that's sometimes what happens in relationships and the people we care most about are the easiest ones to let us down because we have so much trust and faith in them. Certainly not to this degree that he did this to you, but even

even your, your person that you're going to find is going to, you know, something's going to happen where they're going to have to say, I'm sorry, you know, hopefully it's, you know, hopefully it's nothing like this, but like, hopefully this is a situation where it will pass and you will be glad that you did. And just know that, you know, because like, again, I hope I'm making sense and I'm just kind of rambling. But the scariest part about what you're going through from what I can, I guess I'm just gathering is your personality. Is this like you're, you're not used to things not working out the way you planned? Yeah, 100%. And like I had never expected it either because he's, he's 30. So like 26, 30. And he went for like a 21 year old. Like it wasn't like this.

like situation where like I like he told me that there was like this forever because and I believed him because she's 21 the other girl's 21 the other girl's 21 yeah and like he's 30 so like why aren't you ready to just have one girlfriend like why why is this no I don't like age has anything to do with that I mean they're it's like like every 23 old guy is justified to have two girlfriends or needs two girlfriends I don't think it's not a it's not an age thing yeah um But once we get to a certain age and we're ready to buy a house and buy a ring, apparently you would expect that you would have. This guy is really good at making promises and planning for things that he's got a good, he's good at saying things. And maybe for you, someone who like, I mean, the risk that I think you have sometimes is someone who sounds like you're a bit of a planner. And again, like you can trust yourself to make good decisions for yourself. You have good follow through. You're good at setting goals for yourself and accomplishing those goals. This plan didn't work out. and that's probably what you're struggling with this the most. And he was part of your plans.

And I think you just have to, like, you, the lesson he here is like, again, it's just like, more than anything, it's just like, I, this won't be the last time I bet big on something that doesn't work out. And you bet big on him and it didn't work out. What you're still here, you still got a, the only thing that's changed in your life is you just don't have a boyfriend. Yeah, true. And I didn't make him the center of my world either.

The whole center of my world has been in my education. And I pride myself in that too, like that I had probably not done that in my other relationships. But he was like very much something that added to me and never subtracted. And we were very, like very, very much on that like term is that we can only add to each other's lives. And if you subtract from mine, I don't think that you should be here because I have this plan for my life. And if you're not going to add to it, then you're only going to take. away from me going and meeting my goals and and following my dreams and everything like that. And so he was super supportive of that.

Yeah, but he was supportive. Like, you know, he's a tracked from it. You were kind of like, hey, all right, like, I know what I want. This is what I need. I need this. I don't need that. You know, okay, we're long distance. I just, and you basically kind of gave him a roadmap.

I know you didn't mean it like this and this is not your fault, but you were just like, all right, well, I just these, I don't need this. He's like, right. Well, this sounds like I got a different girl in my life. I only have to, you know, you basically gave him the roadmap of how he can do the bare minimum to keep you comfortable with the relationship. Again, you didn't do anything wrong, but that's just what happened. No, I know. Yeah.

I think, like, I would not be, like, in a position where I would accept a bare minimum because, like, obviously when he did see me and, like, when we did talk, like, everything was very much up to, like, the standards of what I wanted and needed. And he was aware of that. Like, he was very much, like, it was never, like a. like high hey conversation where like you just gave like just bread crumbs or like it was always like phone calls talks come as soon as you tell me that I can come I'm coming like I'm going it was never like a bare I never expected it to be a bare minimum thing but I did give him that roadmap like I did tell him like these are the things that I need and if you can't give them to me go somewhere else go do something else be with someone else because those are things that like I personally want and need

out of relationship and like I'm not taking no for an answer for those and he was like yeah yeah gladly I'll do that but then he goes and does whatever he needs to do well let me ask you this because again you seem very career focused right now and this is that's awesome to hear and at being a 26 year old person like great time to focus on your dreams especially professionally but could one make an argument that it's like what I'm hearing from you is like you're very career focused you got you get you're you're you're chasing your dream job and and and I'll the things are working out. And like most people, even at 26, people who are career focused, like, you know, you want a companion, you wanted a boyfriend, you wanted to be able

simultaneously chase your professional dreams and open the doors to a possibility of finding your person and settling down at some point in your life. But could you also make the argument that like, well, it had been nice for you to have a boyfriend, you are in a time in your life where like, to your point, like, a boyfriend's just not a top priority. And like, you really don't have a ton of time to really invest in like a relationship. Not that you don't have time to invest in a relationship, but you certainly don't have time to give your whole world a relationship and really just kind of like, you know.

And so maybe this is like, again, like if a guy shows up great, you know, in your life, but like maybe, you know, it's okay for you to be single for a while. And, you know, it's just like, to your point, it's just like, okay, like now I have even more time to focus on my dreams of my career. And if I, as I heal through this breakup, you know, like, maybe I'll get back on the apps or I'll start dating again. But right now, I don't really need that. I mean, again, I have so much going on in my life right now that doesn't need a guy or a companionship. And I guess my point is this like, you didn't do anything wrong. But like, you know, again, like you were, it was more like, I didn't need a boyfriend. A guy showed up. I told him what I wanted, exactly what I needed. And he, unfortunately, used that roadmap as a way to try to have his cake and eat it. to. And maybe you were a little preoccupied with your personal life and professional life that while there was nothing, he was a good liar, a great liar. And you shouldn't be, have to like go in a relationship where you're constantly questioning everyone's intentions.

But maybe you being so preoccupied that allowed him to get away with, you know, some shit. Yeah. I think I like went into it with eyes wide open too and just saying like, okay, well, like we don't have to do this. Like if you don't want to do this long, do this. It's like, that's okay. Like I'm okay before we had left. And like we were together for like a year and a half before we had left. And he was like, no, gung-ho. 100% I want to do it. And, and like, tell me everything that you need. And I said like, okay, well, you're not exactly going to get everything that you need out of me right now. I promise you that I have everything to give you as soon as I'm out. But I'm going to give you everything that I can. And I did. And he told me that too. Like there was nothing that you

could have given me. There was nothing that you could have changed. All of this happened because of me. It has nothing to do with you. No, that's 100% true, yeah, to be clear. He's definitely right about that. But, like, we had discussed it, and he was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to go get a dog. Like, I'm just going to go get a dog. And then I'll have that.

And then once you come back with like, and I helped him, like, raise this puppy until I left. And then, like, when I left, he got another girlfriend and he had the dog too. And it was just like, I don't know. Just like this whole like. It's a shitty situation. I mean, I think we can just. Yeah. We have to disagree on that.

And I think you just have to accept that a little bit. And there's only so much you're going to be able to like figure out, especially right now, back to what I said before. And like this is so raw and so new. You're just going to have to allow yourself to be sad for a little bit. And I know that gets a little irritating. And again, what you just to try to like not have this feeling linger longer than it needs to. You just have to like practice not romanticizing. You have to stop daydreaming about the promises he made or what your life would have looked like if he wasn't a liar.

and remind yourself of like, listen, I chose to have a boyfriend at a time of my life where I definitely didn't need one. And quite frankly, I have right now in this moment bigger priorities than a boyfriend. And I tried, you know, I'm certainly capable of having a boyfriend right now. I can manage. But like, it just didn't work out. And that's a bummer. And yeah, someone lied to me and really like affected my trust in people. But like the important thing is, is like the only thing that's changed is now I just don't have a boyfriend and I definitely my feelings are hurt. But the things that really mattered most to me in this stage of my life, I still have. And nothing's changed. The things that are most important to me, the only thing I've

realized is that this particular guy is not my guy. And honestly, like I'm sad and it's frustrating and I'm going to have to work, you know, work on some trust issues that maybe I have right now because of what this guy did to me, I'm definitely better off. Thank God I learned now. And I will learn from this. I don't know what that lesson is right now. You don't have to learn your lesson right now. You don't have to have this grand epiphany, you know, like you can allow yourself to heal. But just don't forget, you know, just don't forget where you're at in your life right now. Nothing's changed in that sense. And as far as the next couple weeks, just get through it, you know? Get busy, whatever it is, try something new. And like, I don't know, maybe you're just going to have a couple days or you're sad.

But don't allow that to make you make foolish decisions. Don't get bored and curious and reach out and unblock him. Don't ask for questions. You know, you don't, you know, like, don't try to come up with something that convinces yourself. I need to know this. I need to know why he did this. So I'm going to unblock him. I'm going to reach out and text him.

Hey, I was wondering something. Why did you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why did you promise me that you're not going to, he's a liar. You're not going to get the answer that's going to feel good. So don't try to, you know, because it would be normal for you to like get lonely, miss him. getting your head, reminisce about something, get activated, get, this motherfucker said this. And then like, I need an answer. I need closure. I need to know. And then you reach out to him. And then it just fucks you up a moment. Like, that's the stuff you have to try not to do.

And that's normal for you to do. It's not going to make you feel better. It's just going to stop you from feeling worse. And it's going to stop you from delaying your healing process. And again, that's all you can do right now is just try to get that healing process initiated. it's going to feel slower than you want it right now, but just don't do anything to delay it. Yeah, that's good advice. I guess it answers the, it don't respond, focus on yourself and heal. Don't go back on it. Don't go into that thought process of, okay, I need to know exactly why this is happening and I need to reach out and find out and try to figure this out.

There is no why. There's nothing for you to figure out. It's bad luck. It won't be the last time something. you know like and again you are clearly someone who's got their shit together right and so much about this show that I try to stress is just control you can control you know and you're doing so much of that in your life and then when something that outside of your control like it just feels so helpless especially for someone like you who's so good at controlling what you can control and

and doing your part and making sure that your life works out the way you want it to work out and then when things happen outside of your control, it feels even more helpless for you. And you just accepting that, that sometimes every once in a while, life's going to throw you something very difficult and challenging that you're just going to have to process and let it happen. It's maybe just good life experience

that maybe the universe thinks it's time for you to learn. Probably not, it doesn't make you feel better. But like, yeah, it's... It's something to learn, I guess, because it's not like I did anything wrong. It's not like there was anything that I could have done. So I guess like the life lesson here is just that you have to experience things that

suck sometimes. Yeah. I mean, yeah, truly. Like you have to go through those things and you do. I mean, you do. Everyone does. That's what, you know. And I hope this is the worst thing that ever happens to you.

And if that is, you have a charmed life. It's a great life. You'll have, you'll have other adversity, you know. And I think sometimes when adversity like this hits for the first time, it just feels very scary and very foreign and very hard to imagine you'll get through it. Yeah, 100%. But you will. You will. Yeah. You don't need any more closure from this guy. I think that's just the biggest thing. He is, there's nothing to figure out. He's closed the book. Yeah. There's nothing to figure out. He just, he lied. He's not the guy you thought he was. Um, and he played you and he used you and

there's nothing you could have done about it. And you're not stupid. And he just, he took, he took you for Granted. You know, you didn't waste, you know, it's like you're still only 26. You're going to, you're, you know, be okay with feeling like you wasted some time. Yeah, 100%. And like, I mean, in reality, I wasn't going to date anyone while I was in this situation if I hadn't met him before anyway. So it's not like I wasted time. There you go. Being with somebody. Yeah. There you go. See, that that's the stuff I want you to get good at like processing, you know, that's a great, like what you just did there is that that that's the energy you want to bring. is that like rational practical thought process of like well i probably wouldn't i probably would have

been like happily single had i not met him for sure so had you not met him he probably saved you a couple like bad dates you know there could have been another guy that just kind of like wasted your time you know what i'm saying like you know it's it's not binary it's not like oh had i not met him i would have been that much who knows but like this happened you had some good times it didn't work out it fucked you up a little bit. It's really harsh right now because everything's feeling raw and activating your ego is just really hurt

and you're feeling silly and stupid. But most of that will just pass. The hope. They will. You don't even have to hope. I promise you it'll pass. It's just making sure you don't let it affect other things in your life

that you wouldn't let it affect. And it sounds like you're not going to do that. No, I won't. I think I've learned from this at least that it's not worth any more of my like emotional time and things like that like it's not he's not deserving of that so it's like i have to have to do the things that are going to benefit me and stop benefiting him by like thinking about this and like making this uh there's nothing that i could have done but i'm just feeding into it

more and more by thinking of all the things that could have been and what we could have had and everything like that it's just giving it to him it's giving my energy to him that he doesn't deserve it's not like something that and it's a waste of my own time because I could be doing something better. Yeah, yeah, that is the right mindset to have and it'll get a little easier every day. And the good news is, is that it doesn't sound like you're all that sad about like you missing him. It just, you just seem hurt in a way that stings. Yeah, I think that like once you cross a certain line, it's like, that's not the person that I knew. So like I said, like that person is dead.

Like that person doesn't exist anymore. And maybe they never existed, but I don't know that person. And I feel like you're a step further than some people would otherwise be in your shoes. I know like I've had relationships that didn't work out where I was really sad where I was still very, I missed them. You know, I was still very sad. I all, the only feeling I felt is just wishing they were here, you know. And that was, and that feeling was so strong that I was. I could not, I could not process the ways in which, like, they weren't right for me.

You know, I just couldn't. I was just too missing them, you know? Fast forward to another relationship that didn't work out. I remember being really sad and I remember feeling blindsided. I remember feeling lied to and let on. But the manner in which she went about doing it, I remember being, like, kind of feeling icky about her and like and the way she went about doing it was kind of like yeah i know i'm sad and i know my heart still is like i'm feeling all these feelings and i'm but i do know that that's

fucked up and i don't want her yeah you know my ego wanted her to still miss me and i mean my ego wanted her to regret what she did to me and my ego wanted kind of like that validation that she would sometime someday regret it yeah but i knew i didn't want her you know it was like And it feels like that's where you're at right now, you know, but you're still processing all these other things, which I still have, I still waste a lot of emotional energy ruminating over things, even though I was like comfortable not wanting her. But that's, you're still a step ahead than other people are in the shoes where it's still just like not being able to get past just like missing having someone and missing that companionship. And, you know, and feeling loved and things like that. And, and I think that's great news for you. That's a good sign. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, practice not ruminating. Practice not dwelling about this guy and this relationship.

It's the why questions you have to be careful. You know, I mentioned this. I'm plugging my book, but right now, when you're ruminating, if you start asking why, you have to, that's such as to be a light ball being like, I don't need to know why. What? What happened? This is what happened.

I don't want this to happen to me. I didn't deserve this. There's no why. What? He did this. he did that, he lied about this. Why? Who fucking knows, who cares? Doesn't matter.

It's the what that really matters. His actions matter. I'm not his psychologist. I can't, I don't know why people do what they do, but he did it. And that's all I need to know. Yeah, 100%. All right. Well, I'm sorry going through this.

It will be okay. Thank you so much for helping. I got a lot going on for yourself and focus on that. And just, I would just, I think it's really important for you right now to just remind yourself, I'm going to allow someone else. I'm going to give my heart to someone else someday. I'm going to be vulnerable someday. It's going to be okay.

I might be lied to in the future, but like I will, for me, I was always like, I'd rather be a fool than a skeptic, you know, because I knew, like if after a while,

you become more resilient and you know that you can get over a heartbreak, but you never want to give up on the chance to feel like that love and connection with someone. And don't allow someone like him to steal that away from you, your ability to be vulnerable.

someone in the future. You know, it doesn't mean, you know, you might get hurt again. But like, focus on, what I want you to focus on as you heal is remember how you healed and that you did heal and know that that is replicable and that you can do it. And that just will make you feel more resilient and unafraid to take risks in the future. Yeah, that's definitely helpful. Okay. All right.

Good luck out there. Thank you. All right. Take care. When you're making a big decision, you need the full picture. Car gurus, deliver. delivers exactly that. You get unbys, deal ratings, price, and vehicle history, and all the key details up front. So you know when you found the right car at the right price. Finally, car shopping

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I'm trying to figure out how long I should wait for my husband to grow up. Okay. Given that he's your husband, like what, how, like, how close are you to not waiting anymore? And I guess what do you mean by growing up? That's so like. We have kind of a complicated story. We're high school sweethearts. We got together when we were 16.

And I grew up in kind of a dysfunctional household. And so I think I kind of clung on to him at a young age. and we've only been with each other. We've only did it each other. And we got married at 20. But our whole relationship, even since we've been married for 10 years, pretty much, has been me being the leader. Even in high school, I helped him graduate high school. I was the one who went to college and he came along with me and worked minimum wage jobs.

And I was the one who wanted to get married and, like, develop ourselves and our careers, build a family. and he deals with a lot of mental health issues. And so I feel like I've also kind of been the strength in that regard to like taking care of him, comforting him constantly, mommy behavior, right? What like what mental health issues is he dealing with? Without getting too far into it, definitely anxiety, depression and OCD, specific types of OCD that feel very like harmful and scary. And so a lot of that has resulted in me being kind of like an emotional crutch for him. Scary for you? Mm-hmm.

Oh, so? Just having to deal with a lot of like intrusive thoughts and comforting him around that. And also just having constant anxiety, like having him call me all the time, having to comfort him. I know that like he had a dynamic with his mom growing up where anything that he did wrong or had a bad. thought he had like this guilt wound where he constantly would go to her and then she would comfort him. And so I think because we got together so young, it's kind of switched into the same dynamic where I have kind of become that crutch for him. And so basically everything, like that dynamic continued for a long time until we decided we wanted to start a family

and have our daughters. So before we got pregnant, we had the conversation of like, hey, I need to be a little bit more in my feminine. You know, you need to be your own person and be able to manage yourself. And, you know, are we going to both commit to this? I can commit to being in my feminine. And can you commit to being in your masculine? And he agreed. Did he understood what you meant?

I think he knows. But when it comes down to the reality of doing it, it's hard because we've only dated each other. So we both don't have a lot of practice outside of our own relationship. I mean, I get the gist of what you mean, but I'm not even entirely sure what you'd be when you're like in my feminine. Like, I mean, I'm assuming you're just more you want him to lead, take charge. Lead, like emotionally stable. Also, like, have a plan for his life. Like, if you want to create a family with me, you should like want to have some form of a plan for where we're going to

go together. I feel like I'm just kind of a very driven person that has a lot of like dreams. And I've been like, here's my plan. Come along with me and just has been, I've been dragging him along. I feel. So that's on me. Right. I take responsibility for like choosing this person that is just more like okay with me leading everything and then trying to change him into being somebody who's leading us, but we got married at 20. And how old are you now again? 30. Is he really kind of just as helpless as you are describing?

It feels to me like, like, for example, when I got pregnant, his car broke. He couldn't afford a new one. So like I would, while starting my own business, take him to work every day while I was pregnant, pick him up from work every day from his minimum wage job, you know, encourage him to pursue a career and to... What's he do for work? It's a minimum wage, like, card detailing business, basically. Okay.

And you think he's capable of much more, probably? This is the problem. It's like, once we had our daughter, it really hit me that I did marry someone who maybe I settled for and who isn't going to match my freak, right? And but I'm married to this person now. I made a life commitment to him. And so I've been having this trouble of like, where is the balance between accepting that and not trying to change him? And also, I do want a core family unit. I do want, you know, to continue to grow together and grow our family. But at this point, still, it's been three years. He doesn't have a car. We don't have health insurance. There's all these

components of our relationship that feels so unstable and I've been the one carrying our relationship. And I literally just feel like I can't anymore. I feel like I'm like breaking down and my body has been breaking out in hives. I've been so stressed because I'm like working and taking care of our daughter and trying to balance it all. But I feel definitely trapped in this dynamic where he can't meet my expectations and I'm just like what do I do from here? It's tough. I mean the problem it's tough is because it doesn't sound like he just have a lot of belief or faith in him. It sounds like I don't. Yeah. Like you don't, you're not describing like he's like he's like he's a bad husband or a bad boyfriend. You know, he's like got to us, you know, he just doesn't prioritize me

and spends more time with his buddies. And you know, not that that would be better, but it like you know it also is that like we have a very i don't have a lot of romance there's no initiation strength leadership like protection anything in our relationship where i feel like a woman and i know that we do have this dynamic where yeah it sounds like i don't believe him because i've been shown over so many years we've been together for like 15 years yeah yeah i mean shown that every time that i trust to give him the reins and try to allow him to lead him make decisions for us, that they're just very irresponsible. Yeah, it doesn't sound like he, from your point of view, that he really has embraced being a

husband and a father. Yes, it definitely feels like he wants the benefit of and the joy of being a dad and a husband without, like, the responsibility. He loves having our daughter and has a great relationship with her. he loves like playing with her but when it comes down to actual work in our marriage you know he'll change her diaper and then just leave the dirty diaper on the floor and i've just stuff like that constantly where it's like i on a always or sometimes because i'll be honest i've done that before it's okay that it happens right but to do it constantly and have to have conversations on a daily

basis. It feels like a mother dynamic and I just fucking hate it. I'm like, how do I? It just sounds like in no way you feel taken care of. That's what it is. In no way. I look at every area of our relationship and I'm like, I feel in no way taken care of and how am I supposed to have another child? I really want to grow our family. I never thought that we would have this big of an age gap. And I'm like, it's been three years. I'm okay with it being longer. he was making a lot of changes and being consistent, but it seems like, especially now because he's on medication to help with some of his mental health issues, it went from like this manic behavior of like yelling, being super inconsistent and like gambling and all of these like really

erratic behaviors to now he's very much apathetic and calm. But it's like it feels like he's not even putting effort into the changes that I'm needing to be the man that I need. And other than like sitting him down to me, like, I want to be more of my feminine and I want you to be more on your masculine. What like, is that what, was that what the conversation really literally was? No, I mean, we've had conversations every day for a long time about like, I need support. Like, my body started breaking out in hives. I developed a panic disorder. I'm working nonstop. Like, I am a. business person and I'm a mother that stays home with our daughter. And so it's like I told him,

I'm crashing out. I've had like deaths in my family in the last couple of years. I went through the whole postpartum thing and breastfeeding and staying up all through the night. And it's like, I feel like I'm just carrying this whole relationship on my shoulders alone. Tough. Yeah. What do you feel like your options are. I feel like my options are either stay and accept who he is and just know that I'm going to have to live my whole life this way. In what way is that? What does that look like for you? I think staying looks like settling and burning out. And that's what I watched my parents do. My mom was the leader of the household. She led everything, finances, home life, everything. and she resented my dad.

And it has led to showing me that same dynamic. And I don't want to show that to my kids that the wife just handles every little thing and has to parent her own partner. And so it's been really hard for me to recognize that an option isn't to control him to being somebody who I want him to be. And that's been really hard to let him. Does your husband have any male role? models in his life? No. He doesn't have, he's very codependent on me. And so he doesn't have

core male friendships. He doesn't, even his relationship with his men and his family isn't very strong. And he's acted the same way, like just very impulsive, you know, screaming, emotionally unhinged behavior with his family too and with his friends. And so he doesn't have like the same strong relationships as I do. What's stopping you from moving on? I think it just, I do love him as a person. We've only been together. So I have no fucking idea.

What is normal? What is not? I know that all marriages go through seasons. And what's really complicated is because I'm only 30 and we've been married for 10 years. All of my friends are like, you should just divorce him. You could do so much better co-parent and have that healthy relationship. Your friends are like really pretty beautiful. Because this isn't normal in our marriages, but they've only been married for a couple of years.

So I'm like, does every marriage get to a point after 10 plus years? Was your husband ever a rock star? It's hard because like when we first got together, we were literally in high school. So yeah, of course, when it's easy, you're a rock star. We're hanging out, having fun together. But it's like what does life look like? Yeah, I mean like rock star in the sense of you feeling taking. care of somehow in some way when you are complaining to your girlfriends who are married with kids

who are all adulting or maybe the ones who aren't even married there is a baseline that you're desiring that they suggest that they have in your right like that's that's not to compare what your boyfriend or your what your now husband was like as a 17 year old kid in high school you know just like yeah i mean i think every partnership just needs like it's like what's the of being in a relationship. If every once in a while, you can't rely on your partner to say, hey, everything's going to be okay, I got this, you can count on me, or we can do this together, or I will do my part, and someone who know from time to time can be your rock.

And it goes both ways, you know, like, I need Natalie to be that way for me. I like to think, and I don't think much in the feminine and masculine sense. I don't, you know, I grew up in a very conservative traditional household in the sense that my parents had like, you know, I'm one of 11 kids. And obviously we grew up a religious and things like that. But what I really like, I appreciate about my parents, my dad would sometimes cook dinner. My mom would sometimes mow the lawn, you know, like there were no, they were a team, you know. They, they, they were very blue collar. We, we weren't poor.

We got by. But they just, they did it together. you know, and they had each other's backs. And I don't know, masculine, feminine, whatever, you know, but it's just like they took care of each other. And yeah. That's beautiful. And it's like, it sucks that you feel like you're constantly taking care of your husband

and your kid and you can't have time to take care of yourself and you're trying to go to business going. And it must be very scary. It is. And that whole mentality of like, don't worry, baby, I got you. We're going to get through this. You know, I'm never met with that. I'm always, I feel like even when I'm having a hard day, when it has nothing.

to do with him. I met with defensiveness or him completely shutting down and just not having like that emotional safety in a relationship has maybe become even more self-dependent. And then that makes me even more resentful. And that's not who I want to show up in a relationship as. But we are only 30. And we have only dated each other. And so it's like, I don't want to divorce this man. and then have him become the man that I need in the next few years and then look back and be like, is that possible? What do you think?

Well, I never met him. But people don't usually change that drastically. There's a world where he could lose his wife and his family in a way. I mean, I'm assuming you wouldn't like, you know, he would still be a dad. And that could certainly, but even then, I don't know how much that really changes people. Does he in any way have any clue how you feel?

A hundred percent. That's what makes it so hard is that we go to marriage counseling on a weekly basis. Okay. So you're doing the work? No. I mean, he tells me all the time I want to be that person too. That's so fucking hard. I will do anything that it takes.

I'm working on growing myself, but like he'll go to the gym for a few days, like in a row and then he'll completely stop. or he started his own personal therapy, but then he said it was making his problems seem even harder and too big. So then he stopped doing that. And then he said, I'm going to pursue this career. And he started going to classes to learn how to do it. And then he stopped that.

And so what's your husband passionate about? I think he's passionate about being a dad. Okay. That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. He's a really, he is a great human being. He's a nice guy.

That's what makes it so difficult, you know. All right. Just to play devil's advocate for a second. Why can't you just be the breadwinner of the family and him be a stay-at-home dad? I don't want to do that. You don't want to do. You're not interested in it. Okay.

I'm not interested in that at all. In fact, I'm working way more than what feels natural to me. I want to have more kids. I want to be at home more. Okay. I feel like I'm only working so much because I have to. Yeah, but that's, and that's also not what we agreed on when we did decide to have kids together. You know, we didn't both go in saying like, I'm going to make all the money and you can be a stay-at-home dad.

And now I'm just changing my mind. It's like he's committed to I'm going to take more off your plate as our family. So why are you starting your own business? Because I've never felt like I was going to be taken care of. Because you have to, not because you want to? I do like what I do. and I really do like working part-time, but the reason why I started my own business, I was working in corporate before this. And I was like, if I have a family, I'm going to need to be able to make some form of income while being able to be remote and make up my own schedule.

Because I just knew even at that time that I wasn't going to be able to stay home while my babies were little and make zero money because I've always paid for, bills and taking care of like finances and budgeting for our family. It doesn't sound like you feel like your husband's very resilient. It's tough. Yeah. I feel a little trapped and what really hurts me the most I think is that I want to have another baby so bad. And I feel like I've done all the right things as a woman.

I did go and get a degree and pursue my career. so that no matter who I was with, I had something that fall back on. I did, you know, soften into my feminine. I know you hate that word, but I did decide to. I switched up the dynamic in our relationship on my side to be more accepting, more soft, more willing to let him lead. He's just not stepping into that. I feel like I took the pants off in our relationship and put them on the floor.

And I've just been staring at them for three years being like, please pick them up. do something so that I can have more babies. And now I'm like, I know I shouldn't feel rushed to make a decision, but I feel like it's either stay with him and wait it out. And that in itself is a gamble of if I'll be able to have more kids with you or leave and try to find some other random person to have, grow a real family with and feel supported in a true partnership and have more children with. I don't want to just have one kid.

Yeah. It's a tough situation. you're in. I think, you know, it's like your life is not going as planned. That's okay. No one does. I only say that to you because more than anything, I just, you're going to be fine. You're only 30. And you're in this very pivotal time and it's not ideal. And I don't really have a right answer for you. To be able to look in the mirror and say, I need to expect more for myself and take pride in the people they care about. I just like, it's lost. I don't know. It's so ingrained in who I am. But I had the best. of having an amazing male role model in my dad, you know.

My dad's not Mr. macho guy. That's 5-8, you know, and, you know, he never was a big, you know,

he never, like, sat me down and taught me like, what is to be a man? You know, Nick, you have to do this to be a man. And,

you know, like, I don't, never been in a fight. I don't hunt. I don't do car. I, like,

I don't do any of that traditional, like, stuff. But my dad took care of his people. He took care of his family. He invested his whole life and to taking care of the people he loved. And that came with a lot of, like, hardships. And my dad didn't, you know, my dad fucking grinded.

And I really admired that about my dad. And that's the sad part is, like, I think you just meet me, you know. Yeah, it just makes me sad for your situation. I don't have a good answer for you. Me too. I constantly am feeling like, how are you not caring about, like, protecting our family? or like building a future for us or just having this instinct to lead us to these shared dreams that we have. Did your husband realize that you're on the verge of leaving him?

I don't know what to do. And I feel like time is ticking. You know, I know I am only 30, but I do want like one or two more children. I've always wanted a big family. Yeah, you're in a pickle. You know, you have this family. You have your daughter. You have your husband who you love as a person.

you are only 30, but you are 30, and like, you started your family. And I get it the pickle that you feel like you're in because it's like, you know, I know what it's like, you know, we, we've, we've been open about our struggle to, to have a second child, like, you know, as River gets older, like, oh my God, we want her to have a sibling that's relatively close to age. And like, it may or may not happen the way we want it to. It's not, it's, and you're right, you know, and the fact that you've never been with anyone else, you know, if you choose to leave this situation, you're going to want to date and it's going to take you a while and you're going to have to meet a couple people and I don't know, you don't even know what that's like and you deserve

to go and explore and then you're going to constantly be torn between what I don't want for you is for you to leave this guy and have such limited dating experience and with this pressure you feel to like grow your family to jump, you know, what I really don't want you to go from one bad relationship to another. And it's going to take, it's going to take, it's going to take a lot of of strength on your part and and and and that's going to be you're capable of it but it will be tough i mean i don't want to mean you know it's just going to really take a lot of discipline on your part which i mean listen the good thing is is like you clearly are a strong person uh and this has taken a lot of strength for you to get this far and so you're going to be okay more than anything i just

want you to feel like you're going to be okay because i feel like right now it's probably easy for you to feel like the world's crumbling around you and there's no good options. That's exactly how it feels. And I think the worst thing I could do right now is have another child with this man and have more pressure be put on both of us. Is he pressure you to have more kids right now in a way? No, but he's promising me that he'll be different and the actions aren't lining up with that.

And so it's really confusing. I mean, like, I bet I already asked this question, but I'm going to ask it again. Like, does he know you're like, hey, I have one foot out the door and I don't want to leave you, but I feel completely helpless and I feel utterly alone. 100%. We have that conversation on a daily basis. And he tells me, too, he's like, you deserve better. He's like, I am not the person who I want to be. I've always had this vision of the man I want to be and I just haven't had the tools or the understanding to show up as that person for you. And I'm disappointed in myself. And he says, I will be that person for you. It's just not going to be on your timeline. And so you can either wait for me to figure it out or you can leave me.

I'm like, how long do we need to? I know there's a no timeline, but what's the timeline on you figuring it out? No, because it's tough because like the productive thing to say to him isn't the thing you want to say to him, right? I mean, Aaron, because the thing I'm guessing you want to say to him that I'd want to say to him is like, man the fuck up, bro. you know like i've said things along that line to him less harsh obviously but i have said like then do it you know step into the person that you're promising me you can be show me with action not your words and he is unable to be consistent with that i mean could you i don't know i don't i don't i don't have a good answer for you it's kind of validating that you don't because i'm so

confused right now, so I appreciate you being honest about that. But I think at the end of the day, I'm just going to have to make a decision after a certain amount of time and then make it the right decision instead of going back and forth on what is the right decision. I just need to listen to my intuition, I guess. I've said similar things to different callers before, but one thing I've always been glad or grateful and decisions I've made throughout my life is that what I finally made a difficult decision, I had no regrets because I definitely like really put in the effort and I really tried. And it was this like, and I definitely think in most of these situations, I tried longer than I probably should have, you know. Yeah, that's where I feel like I'm at.

And but once I finally decided to move on, it was like, yeah, I'm like, I have my answer, you know, I really knew. So yeah, I want you to, if nothing else, feel that and feel confident that you're making the right decision, even if it's a sad decision. I mean, have you ever, I guess, like, I don't know how, I don't know if this will work or be productive, but in that vein, have you tried a separation where, you know, because your hope is like he'll wake up. You know, you're still having right now. You are.

You are separated. Technically, yes. Yeah, we're not like seeing other people. We're not making it a whole thing where we're like trying to date other people. but right now we are separated and practicing co-parenting. How long has that been going on for? It's, I mean, once it first started, it got worse. Like he was gambling more and having a lot of erratic behavior.

But now he's medicated. So he's a little bit more stabilized. Co-parenting is easy together. And so part of me thinks like maybe this is kind of just the best route for us is being friends and co-parents, it just really pains me to break up our core family unit and have to, you know, we've always dreamed of having a beautiful family together. And so having to face that reality that it might not be the case hurts. How have you felt, since your separation, how have you felt? I mean, outside of his behavior, how have you felt? Well, the house is clean. I'm not having to

pick up after him, but definitely lonely. Like, I've always had him. And so I think in the ways where he's been codependent on me and anxiously attached to me in similar ways, I've been, you know, emotionally attached to him, even if it's in a toxic mothering way. Sure. And so having to sit with myself, you know, I'm going to therapy weekly. I'm journaling every day, you know, working out all the things to take care of myself right now. But I think it's all just really sad. And I would hope that he would be busting his ass right now to like take care of himself and do the things that he needs to do to get back on track as an individual.

That's the whole point of why we're doing this so that he can focus on himself and being able to be the strong man to show up for our family. But I'm not seeing that on his end, like consistency. with working on himself. Well, maybe right now the best thing for you to do is nothing. And what I mean by that is I guess you've done the something, which is like you've initiated the separation. How long you guys been separated for?

A few months, but... A few months. Okay, so it's not total... So in a few months, nothing really meaningful has changed in a positive way. He did get medicated. So that's good, but then he stopped going to therapy. so it kind of feels like a easy way out like a crunch. And the medication, I know, like does it feel like a Band-Aid?

That's exactly it. I think I would trust it a lot more if he was continuously going to therapy and working on himself, but it definitely does feel like a Band-Aid. The medication he's on seems to level him out and make him less volatile, but it doesn't do much more than that. Yeah, exactly. So it took away him screaming, having all this erratic behavior being very like mentally unstable. So now I'm left with all the other pieces of like incompatibility, lack of leadership, lack of, you know, protection and drive and all these things that I'm having to look at all these pieces and be like,

is this enough to stay with this man, take away all of the mental health issues? I guess again, I mean, I still stand by maybe the best thing to do. do right now is nothing. And, and, and, but, but the only thing maybe to slightly change is how you're viewing the situation. You're like, right now, I don't think you need to make a decision. You've made a very difficult one already a few months ago, which is to make that decision to separate, right? And maybe just getting comfortable with that new normal, which is being alone, you know, you're not alone in the grand scheme of thing. It sounds like you have a good support system. It sounds like you have some good friends, which is great. But in terms of romantic partnership, obviously, you, you, you bid with the

same guy for what feels like a lifetime, no doubt. And so just you being alone is new for you. And I think in preparation for the possibility that you might choose to move on, you know, embracing being a single mom and just getting comfortable with some of these lonely feelings that obviously will come and that will make you sad. But knowing that like you're still going to be okay and you're making the right decision and as difficult that it is to find in that like, you know, I hope that you're feeling at times proud of yourself. Thank you. Yeah.

I guess that's all. You sound like my therapist right now. Just like give yourself grace and don't feel like you need to rush a decision. But it just really sucks to be in this in between period where I feel like my clock is ticking and I just yearn for love and family. and stability and all of these things. Have you been at least curious about what's out there? It's hard to even think that way when I feel like I'm in survival mode right now.

Okay. And just so overwhelmed with stress on top of... Are you still financially taking care of him? I'm financially supporting myself and mostly my son right now. But he's taking care of himself and I do want him to prioritize, like, stabilizing and making sure that he's okay. So you are still financially taking care of him or emotionally taken care of him? I'm not financially taking care of. I am I'm paying like the mortgage and no, you know, but you're still take you're separated but I'm asking are you still financially

taking care of him? Oh no, I'm not financially taking care of him. No, I'm no. I'm supporting myself pretty much right now. Our finances are separate. Okay. Have they always been separate? We've been, it's gone back and forth over the years, but it's been pretty 50-50. Okay. Yeah, I mean, again, I wish I could offer something better here because it's tough.

But yeah, I really, I think right now just keep doing what you're doing. Because again, like, if you choose to move on, you know, you're not, you're going to be single for a while and that's, and that's going to be okay, you know, sort of some miracle of some, like, guy coming,

showing up in your life that, you know, not only feels good, but is good, right? Because no doubt the first guy, first decent guy you meet that demonstrates, you know, that you're going to date and some guy who like says all the right things and talks about how he wants to take care of his family and blah, blah, blah, says all these right things may not be that guy, you know, and I, you know, you're going to have to sort that out. And that's going to be a challenge. You'll get through it. You can do it. But I, you know, I want you to feel comfortable with this new normal, which is for a, for a period of time of maybe you being independent

and not having a romantic partner in your life all while being a mom. And finding maybe the joys in that. It's very easy right now in your situation to feel like there's nothing good going on, you know, and to focus on the bad. But it's really important that you do find the things that you are grateful for

and what you have going on in your life. And as dark as it might feel right now and as scary as it might feel, there are people in darker situations and you know you can take care of yourself and some people don't have that ability. You know, I've watched enough of housewife episodes to hear people talk about how like,

you know, I don't even know how to pay my bills and I don't know how to do this and I've always relied on my man to do that and now my relationship's falling apart and I don't even know how to take care of myself. Like you do. And, you know, I think for, you know, I guess I'm just trying to say that, like,

there are other situations where it's very easy in your situation to feel like, Anything would be better than what I'm dealing with right now. But, you know, this two show passing, you'll get through it. It sucks now, but I think there's a path forward for you. I think at some point you're just going to have to make a decision and just be confident in that decision. And it sounds like you're doing everything you can to fight for this relationship.

You're doing all the work. You're doing the marriage counseling. You have been incredibly patient with this man for a long, long time. you're still hoping that he makes a change, you know, and you're separated and you're still hoping, you're still hoping, you're still trying. And I think more than anything, don't forget just how much you've tried

so that when you do, or if you do decide to leave, that you have no regrets. Because it sounds like he'll make you feel bad or make you feel guilty and he'll, you know, the whole like, you got to do it on my timeline or you can just leave me. It's very,

it's very, be able to have in such a weak move on his part to like dare you to leave him as opposed to just like getting his shit together. Yeah, I don't know. What's your relationship like with his mom? I'm curious. With his mom? Yeah.

She deals with a lot of similar things, mental health issues. And so it's been over the years, I've been close with her because we've been together for so long. Is she aware of how you feel? Oh, yeah. I mean, she's aware. She's also been screamed. that. She's been, she's witnessed a lot of his behavior over the years. And she's told me he's

always been like this his whole life. Like he has always also relied on me for stability and emotional support. And I told her recently, too, I said, you know, I feel like he just moved, you know, using you as an emotional crutch to putting that responsibility on me as a woman in his life. And I can take accountability that I have stepped into that and been like an emotional supportive mommy in the beginning of our relationship. I guess what I'm curious what you mean by that in a sense because like, you know, I have a great relationship with my mom, you know. I've really counted on her for emotional support at times, you know. But where do you feel like it goes from a healthy emotional support system from a parent and a, in a time of need to just being a crutch, so to speak, where it gets a little like, hey,

you know. I think there were no boundaries with his mom growing up. So, like, he would tell her every little thing that he did wrong or felt guilty about or if he had, like, thoughts that were not, you know, like, good. He would go to her and she would always settle him down and say, don't worry, you're okay. You're not a bad boy. She took care of everything for him. She did his homework.

She cleaned up after him. And so it's like these days, every little thing that comes up, he has used me as that for to get comfort and validation. But then when I go through a hard time, like since having our daughter three years ago, and I come to him meeting him for support, it's just a lot of emotional stability or just shutting down. and it has made me feel very alone like I can't open up to him or support him. But whenever he has a hard day or, you know, he's going through drama with work or friendships, he's calling me. And it seems like he can't regulate himself. It's tough.

You know, it's like you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Yeah, exactly. It's just a tough realization. I don't regret having our daughter with him. Like, I wouldn't change anything and I love our daughter so much. But I do sometimes wish that I could just go back in time and experience a dating world in college and see what worked for me. Learn more about myself. Allow him to learn more about himself and how he wants to show up in a marriage because I think we just got married because that's what you do when you're 20.

in like we both grew up in the church and everything. And so it was just the next step. You get married. And I don't think we really took into account like what does having a wife and being a husband mean to you? Is it honor? Is it respect? Is it protection and love and all of these values that you say that you want? Like you want a woman who is nurturing and loving and emotionally supportive in the heartbeat of your home, but are you actually setting her up to feel that way and be able to be that for you? No. It sounds like you feel like you know where this is going and you're kind of just not sure. It's almost like you're looking for a sign or permission to move on. You might be right on that. I don't know.

I'm somebody who is so like when I make it a. decision. I want to make sure that it's the right one. Yeah. And so I think I do kind of wear things out a little too far to just ensure. Yeah. And I need to just, I think, listen to my own voice and trust myself and let go of the maybe perfectionism of having like a perfect core family unit and the dream of having it all be together or I need to maybe just I mean part of me is like is there anything that I can do

which maybe not and this is just me being a control freak again but is there anything that I can do to make this dynamic work and like help him I feel like I just want it to work so bad and I feel like there's got to be something that I can do more to give it a chance maybe not I mean like even for example, like when I was playing devil's advocate, and I was like, well, I can't he just be a stay-at-home dad and you'd be the breadwinner? And you're like, I don't want to do that, which is a totally, it's your prerogative not to want to do. But even if that's what you wanted to do, it still doesn't work if he, if you feel still very alone in the emotional support prop. You know, it's just like being a stay-at-home dad, for all the stay-at-home dads out there, you know, there's some great stay-at-home dads who take care of the household and, you know, help raise the kids, mom's working, and yet, you know, he still takes care of you, still is emotional support, still lets you know when things are going to be okay, you know, like, it's not like for the stay-at-home moms and stay-at-home dads, that's all they're doing is like playing Cinderella. They still need to be, you know, you can still be the man of the house

and be a stay-at-home dad. You can still, you know, take care of your family, you know, and if all he is doing is just like babysitting your kid while you're working, and then when you get done work, you have to babysit your husband and your children, like, it doesn't, it doesn't work, you know, like, you're, you're looking, you're only 30 and you need companionship and you need a support system and you can't feel alone in a relationship. And it's just like, it's like an emotional prison. Yeah. And you don't deserve that, you know. Thank you. I think in this period of time, I think the thing you would want to practice is to not feel the guilt of, of not regulating your husband and not taking care of him anymore emotionally, allowing him if he makes his choices, he goes at

the casino, he gambles, whatever he does, that's his problem right now. And you really need to focus on yourself and what you're going to need going forward, you know, to be happy and to be confident yourself and to remind yourself that I'm going to be okay and this is going to be scary. What does my support system look like if I choose to move forward with the separation and divorce? and I think right now just really focus on what you need and if by some miracle he surprises you and comes around and wakes up and realize, I don't know, this is it. You know, you can be surprised, but in the meantime, you know,

really just start this almost new life now mentally. And then, you know, so that if you decide to like divorce him, it won't feel like that's the starting point. emotionally if that makes sense. Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your help of this. I don't know.

I really empathize with you and I'm sorry you're going through this and it's well, this is why we don't get married at 20. Fair enough. Just give yourself grace. Yeah. I mean, you're doing a lot and you're not the bad guy. I'm sure you feel some guilt at times, you know. And he's putting you in a really.

shitty position to break up the family. You know? Yeah. And he is, he is, he is using that as a way to keep you together, which is shitty. It's just like you just, that's all you got is making your wife feel guilty about breaking up the family that you don't want to participate in. He's leaving you no choice, it sounds like. Okay. Well, I will focus on that and try to give myself grace. I think time tells everything. And so I'm not going to wait forever. But, um, I do. feel like I'll feel more confident with the decision eventually. All right.

Well, keep us posted how things go, especially if you enter into the dating pool. We'll be here for you. I'm sorry going through this. It sucks. I wish, and I feel for him, you know, I don't know what stopping him from doing this. And he will certainly probably regret it someday. But that's his problem. And listen, we make choices that we regret all the time.

And I wish more people realize that. I'm sorry, I really feel for you. It's okay. Thank you. It's going to be okay. You bet on yourself. You are resilient. I think just keep being really proud of how far you've gotten

and what you've been able to get through. And then that energy, all this energy, you're focused on trying to save your family right now, channeled positively going forward, we'll set you up in a good way. because hopefully you'll be able to channel energy into more productive things. Because right now you're channeling it to someone who like it just feels like a waste and it's going nowhere.

Yeah. All right. Thank you, Nick. All right. Take care. Keep us posted. Okay. All right.

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Paying rent is better with Built. Earn rewards and finally get something back for being a renter. Join the loyalty program for renters at joinbilt.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. How's it going? Hi, Nick. How are you? My name is Sarah. I'm 28 years old. and my mom has been unfaithful to my dad throughout their marriage, and now I'm stuck in the middle of their divorce. Okay.

Where do you want to start? Oh, okay. So there's a lot of information, like so much information. They were married for 25 years, and they met when they were very young, when they were both on vacation. My mom was like 19. My dad was like 22. And at the time, they lived in two separate countries. So they were long distance for two years.

And then my dad decided to move across the country to, you know, pursue this relationship with my mom. So they ended up dating for like three years and then they got married. They had me and my brother. I have a younger brother. I had a great childhood. I didn't really start noticing any issues up until I was like 13 years old. So when I was 13 years old, I found a message on my mom's phone. And I obviously I didn't know who it was or it was kind of like a flirty message.

I don't know. I just, I didn't take it. I just put it away. I put it aside. And that night, I heard them arguing. So apparently my mom was, I guess, having an emotional affair at that time. I didn't know if it was just an emotional affair or if it was also a physical affair. I don't know because I only saw that message.

Yeah, I mean, you're also only 13. Yeah, I was only 13 as well. And then I think after that, things just settled down and I really didn't hear anything much. I would notice them arguing. you know, here and there, I noticed that there was no more like respect, love, trust in the relationship anymore. I feel like my dad didn't really trust my mom after that. And he kind of never forgave her and really just treated her poorly. And I just saw that the love had faded. There was no more respect. There was no more love. They both kind of just lived as roommates.

So now they're getting divorced. So yeah, so we can fast forward to now. So I've actually been telling them to get a divorce for years now because I've noticed them both be unhappy and I'm like, look, your kids are grown now. If you're unhappy, just get a divorce. So I actually sat down with my dad three years ago and I told him, I was like, look, whether you get a divorce or you go to therapy because I can see that you both are unhappy. I know that there's been issues in the past. Obviously, at this point, I've only known of this one, you know, part that my mom had been unfaithful. And my mom actually did admit to me that she was unfaithful to my dad a couple years ago. And my dad as well told me that there were some things that I didn't know that shifted the relationship, but I only knew

about this one time. So my dad was like, no, I'm content. He told me he was content. And he was unhappy, but he didn't feel the need to get a divorce or he didn't really, he felt like his life was fine. I should also mention that like my dad is a very social guy and my mom is a very like introverted woman and they live two separate lives. My dad has his friends. My mom has her friends. So I come from a Hispanic household, which they don't believe in therapy. We basically don't like to talk about our feelings and brush everything under the rug. They don't like to talk about uncomfortable things. So my dad does not believe in therapy. He did not want to go to therapy. He's a very like stubborn and prideful man. And he's always like, well, I don't need to go to therapy. I don't need people

telling me what I already know. That was his excuse. to not go to therapy. However, I talked to my mom and I did convince my mom to actually go to therapy because three years ago I came out to my mom and I wanted her to have someone to talk to about this while I was also still pushing her to talk about, you know, her marriage and I'm sure she has a lot of childhood trauma as well that she had not worked through. So the good thing is that I did end up getting my mom into therapy. So she is currently in therapy and she has been talking to her therapist about her marriage and everything. So fast forward to now.

Let's see, my mom called me and said that my dad has asked for a divorce. And at first I was like, oh, okay, cool, finally. Like, I've been telling you guys to get divorced for so long. But my mom is a very hardcore, like, people pleaser. She cares a lot about what people think about her. And she has never really been on her own. She doesn't know how to make decisions on her own. She's scared to be alone.

She likes to be in her little comfortable bubble. She doesn't speak up for herself. So I'm always the one to kind of speak up for her, right? So my dad calls me and he basically starts telling me that my mom had been unfaithful to him multiple times in the relationship. Not just once. He didn't tell me how many times. He told me there was multiple times where my mom was talking to people. I don't know if it was through text.

Again, I don't know if this was in person. And my dad basically had reached a point where he was like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I don't trust your mom. At that point, I can feel like his anger and his hurt. And I think he was just venting to me at that point. And he told me a lot of information that I didn't need to know as far as like, I don't know.

he told me about why my mom and one of her friends stopped being friends a long time ago was because that she knew about the infidelity and decided to tell my dad. So I get like let's, I don't mean to cut you off, but I'm sure you're, you could have go on and on about. Yeah, I know. There's like so much information. I guess my question is, is like, what can I help you with? You said you're stuck in the middle of a divorce.

So like what is your immediate problem that you feel like I can help you out with as it relates to you, you know, because like this is, you're not getting divorced, you know, like, how can I help you deal with or accept your parents' relationship in a productive way? Right. So I am, when I say stuck in the middle, I don't mean like they're fighting and I'm like mediator. Like, there's no fight going on. I think right now I am the only one who knows both sides of their information. I know my dad's side. I know my mom's side. And I'm trying to navigate this as neutral. as possible without getting too emotionally involved because I do this thing where I'm a very empathetic person so I feel my dad's side I feel my mom's side and then it takes a load on me so also I just need

to establish boundaries with both of them like saying for example like okay you have your story you have your story but I'm also not trying to get involved and I don't need to know all of this extra information I'm still going to treat you guys as my parents and I guess navigating with also because now family's going to get involved. And like I said, my mom is not really the best at speaking up for herself. And sometimes I have to speak up for her. Why? I feel like sometimes she gets bullied by her own family.

But I mean, that's family. Family's going to bully you. Yeah, I mean, listen, but why do you have to be the one to do it? I mean, I don't have to. But nobody else really jumps in. I mean, is your mom that helpless? No. I mean, I guess it depends, especially like right now during the holidays, like, we're getting together and everyone's going to be asking like, oh, where's where's this person or where's, yeah, and my mom's probably just going to freeze up and not know what to say.

So, I mean, yeah, but like, what are you supposed to be by her side to, like, speak for her? No, I'm trying to teach her how to speak up for herself as well. My dad has currently, like, moved out of the house. I'm making sure that my mom is still in therapy and is still talking to her therapist because I want her to truly talk about everything and why she did the things that she did so she can truly like understand because I mean I don't know how many times or why she wasn't faithful to my dad. I don't know. I mean I'm sure like how long were your parents married for? 25 years. It's a long time.

You know, like it's and there's probably a lot you don't know. I don't know why your mom did that. not cool that she did that. And I'm not saying there was a reason why to do it to justify your mom. But like this is a 25 year marriage and they probably both have a lot of things that they did or didn't do that hurt each other. So yeah, I mean, it's like it's you're not their therapist, right? And you're not their parent and you're not like you can only do so much. I think the most you can do is just keep letting your mom and your dad know that you love them and you are always going to be there for them and accept them who they are,

whatever faults they have, remind them they both deserve to be happy. And yeah, I think it's great that you're supporting your mom that she's in therapy. And, and, you know, hey,

I'm really proud of you. I know that's not easy to do. I hope that you find it helpful. It's not your job to like, all right, so what do you talk about in therapy? It's not your job to like review it with her and make sure she learns.

and guide her through it. Like, you can only do so much. My mom did tell me that she feels like she, or when she first got married, she feels like she was never allowed to make any decisions. Like, she always had someone to make decisions for her. So I honestly don't think that she wanted to get married. I think she was kind of like forced into this marriage.

And I think that my mom and dad, they had a connection for sure, like especially like when they were young. but my mom never really one of the major complaints about my dad was that he wasn't getting what he needed from her. Why are you hearing these complaints about each other from your parents?

Yeah, because they just feel the need to tell me all these things because what you said earlier that you think that you need better boundaries with mom and dad. Right. I would agree. Because I allow them to just. I think it's natural in a divorce

when kids are involved. It makes sense to want your kids to see your point of view or take your side. I think that's probably pretty common and normal in divorces. Yeah, I think that's why my dad told me a lot of information was because he wanted me to see like his perspective and why he decided to leave, which fair, but also I didn't need to know all that. Yeah, and I think that's something you need to like say to both mom and dad, where it's just like, listen, I didn't even exist when you guys first met. I'm glad you guys had us. I appreciate it. I'm glad you guys got married. I, I, you know, this is your life and I'm, I'm sure this is very, you know,

but like, I love you both. I love you both equally. I am sad for the both of you, but I've said this to both you before. This is probably the best decision. I am not taking sides. You probably both have hurt each other over the years. It's not going to change how I feel about you guys as my mom and my my dad. And I, I agree that you guys probably shouldn't be together, but like, I'm not going to take sides. And to that end, I'm not your therapist. I don't honestly want to hear you guys talk shit about the other person. Like, I'm not doubting that maybe you guys have hurt each other, but like, I need you guys to find other people than me to vent about that. Because honestly, it's just like, I don't want to unpack. Like, what are you going to do hearing your mom be like,

I didn't want to get married. I didn't get, you know, like, I don't know, it was 25 years ago too. And like, I don't know, actually it was like the 2000. So it's not like, it wasn't like, 1950, but whatever it is, like why your mom felt the way she did, you're not here to unpack her childhood trauma. Like, you recognize that your mom probably has some. You have empathy for your mom. And that's quite honestly, all your parents need to know. It's like, mom, I have a ton of empathy for you. And like, you probably didn't have some of the privileges that I had because, you know, despite you and dad not being compatible, I appreciate the childhood I have. I love you both. You both have been overall great parents to me. And I love you. And I'm, I'm grateful for that.

I am sad you guys couldn't work it out. But like, I'm not your therapist. And like, I want you guys both to be happy, but you can't talk shit about the other person to me. I'm not the person for you guys to go through to do that. I'm not here to solve your problems, you know, like, I can't. I'm here, you know, I want to be supportive. But if supporting you is listening to you talk shit about my dad or my mom, like, I don't

want to be that person. It's not fair to your kids. To let them know that I still love them. And, you know, it's not my responsibility to unpack all of this. trauma or relationship with them. Yeah. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. Yeah.

So my mom doesn't really, she vents a lot to me because she doesn't talk to anyone about this. She doesn't talk to her friends about this. She doesn't talk to her family about this. And I always ask like, why, like, you don't have, I mean, she has best friends. She has friends from childhood.

And I was like, why don't you talk to your friends? And I think she has, again, that trauma from that one friend that she did trust and then went to tell my dad. So I guess that's her reasoning for not telling her friends and then the reasoning for not There's a difference between being like I'm cheating on my husband don't tell anyone versus Like I'm going through a divorce and I'd love some support from a friend and and Yeah, I think her fear is She fears getting judged by others and she

That's why she's got a therapist, you know, you pay a therapist to To listen I hope I even told her you're being honest with your therapist and talking through everything with your therapist because I told her that her therapist is not there to judge her and is there to listen to her and to give her advice. And she claims that she is talking to her therapist about all of these things and unpacking her marriage and her trauma. So I'm hoping that her therapist is helping her, but she is still like very just stressed and lost because she feels that she now that she's alone, she has to make decisions for herself, right? So she's she has never made decisions for herself.

She doesn't know how to basically pay the electric bill, for example, like tiny little things like that. She's scared to kind of take initiative and now kind of be on her own. She has to learn how to be on her own. She has to learn how to do things on her own because my dad is not there anymore. My dad's going to, I mean, if you want to help your mom, like, you could help with that. Yeah, exactly. And I told her, I was like, I can help you set up a payment for her.

Not pay, but like, you know, you could help teach your mom things. he doesn't know how to, I'm assuming you have, you're an independent person, you know, like you can do all these things you're describing that your mom can't do. And again, like, you can be there for your mom, you can check on mom, you can support mom, you can, when your mom is scared about the future, you can remind her that, you know, like this is a tough period she's going through, but there's a lot at the end of the tunnel and like more fish in the sea or whatever it is. All you have to make sure that you, you enforce a boundary is like you're not here to listen

to mom and dad, talk shit about. each other, whether intentional or not, they're kind of asking you to take sides. You know, and mom needs to hear, it's just like, listen, I'm not judging you. I love you no matter what. Dad obviously is hurt, but like, listen, I still think deep down, you guys probably shouldn't be married. So I'm glad that this is happening, even though it's scary and painful and sad, but like, this is probably for the best. And mom, if you need help with anything about how to do stuff I'm here for you, you know, and you can hang out more if she's feeling lonely, you can spend some quality time with mom. All it is, it's just making sure that you're not there to listen to the

other person, talk shit or unpack shit that you're like, I did not need to know that about you guys. Like, it's like I'm not here. I don't even know what I'm supposed to do with this information other than to just feel shittier about both of you, you know, and I don't want to feel that way about that. If you don't want to tell your friends, that's fine, but you shouldn't be telling me. And nothing is going to change mom and dad how I love you. you. You're not benefiting anyone by telling me. Yeah. So my dad actually did mention that he was still to this date finding like messages and stuff. Why is your dad still looking? I mean, he's divorcing her. Well, this is like before he, this is like the final straw. But I guess my point is like,

dad, I'm really sorry mom did that to you and that must suck. And I, you didn't deserve that. I'm not going to change what I feel about mom. She is my mom. She's been a good mom to me. She maybe wasn't a good wife to you. I am, you know, you're probably making the right decision about you guys divorcing. I've said this before. You guys don't make a great couple. I don't need to hear it. I don't need to hear all the juicy details of what mom did. I'm never going to think less of her. I'm not going to hate her. I'm not going to love you more. I'm not going to love her less. I love you guys the same. I'm glad you're making the decision, but like do not talk shit to me about mom. I don't know because my parents are very sensitive. So anytime I try to like set boundaries or tell them,

hey, I don't even know this information. I don't want to, I don't want them to not trust me or, I don't know, I need to say it in like a very, trust you, what does trust have to do with it? In a kind way,

like they're no longer able to come to me with information or if they, you don't want them to come to you with this information. Yeah, I know. Well, because you allow it to happen. Yeah, you're right.

So I think I just need to be able to learn how to set. You're giving them a false sense of, you know, and maybe you are, you're giving them, what they clearly want, oh, maybe a little bit. But you're suffering in the meantime, because you're feeling a certain way. It gives you kind of an icky feeling about the other parent.

And it's not your problem to solve. Like, I'm here for you, mom and dad, and I'm willing to step up in ways. And as you guys get older and I get older, I even want to take care of you. But when it comes to, I'm not going to take sides. Right. So I do have a brother, and he doesn't know anything. So I'm the only one who, I guess, knows all of this information. So I technically am alone in this.

So I can't even speak to my brother about three. things because he doesn't know anything. And they shouldn't need to know. Yeah, good, exactly. I'm like, I'm glad he doesn't know anything. Because I feel like if he did know, he would immediately take sides. And I think that's why they trust me and telling me all these things, because they know that I am more mature and more empathetic and can kind of see things clearer versus my brother

would just like react in an angry way and just probably take my dad's side or something. So I feel like completely alone in this because, again, I don't have anyone to talk to about it. I am sitting with all of these emotions, their emotions and my emotion. Are you in therapy? Yes, yes, I am. So I do talk to my therapist about this all the time. And yeah, she's basically telling me that, like, I have to set better boundaries with them because it's getting to the point where it's affecting me negatively because I'm an overthinker. I worried. I worry too much. And I feel all of these emotions all at once plus my own. And I'm also like dealing with my own stuff. So it's just like all combined into one. But yeah, it's been very emotionally and mentally heavy for me, taking all of this in and not knowing what to. do with it and knowing how to navigate in a neutral way and not getting too involved because I also don't want to get involved either. Like I don't want to be mediator. I don't want to be like sometimes my mom will be like tell your dad this, this, this. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to.

You need a nip it in the bud, so to speak. It doesn't mean you have to cut them off. It doesn't mean you have to talk to them less. It's just, and you can even talk to them more. It's just letting mom and dad know that you love them unconditionally. And maybe there's a fear. They both maybe are feeling anxious about that. So maybe they just really need to hear that. Maybe it's It's like a cry for help from both of them. So give them what they need, which is like maybe just that validation and support while simultaneously enforcing the boundary.

So like, mom, just, you know, I'm here to help you move forward. I'm here if you want to talk, but I cannot talk with you about dad. I don't want to hear it anymore in a nice way because I, I don't want to hear about. You just say, I'm not here for you to vent to me about dad. I am not going to pick sides.

And just so you know, I'm telling you to have the same thing. It's not fair to me for you guys to vent to me about how you feel about each other. There's things I just don't want or need to hear. It's not going to change how I feel about you. I hope that neither of you want me to think less of the other person. That's all. That's my only real boundary. So you need to stop talking shit about the other person because there's nothing I'm going to do or can do.

And honestly, that affects my relationship with both you in a negative one. way. Yeah, I think that's exactly what I mean, that's probably true. You probably actually think less of the parent talking shit in the moment they're talking the shit rather than the person they're trying to get you to think less of. Of course. It makes me feel some type of way. Either way, like, I don't need to know all of this information. I don't want to look at them differently. Like, I don't, they're still like my parents and I love them no matter what. And I don't want to, I don't want to see them any differently. And I don't need to know any of their issues. And they're, so that's what you need to, that's what you need to say to them. Yeah, because I don't think I've emphasized, like,

how much is actually affecting me, like, listening to all of this stuff. Like, I, sometimes I just, like, let them talk. And if I cut them off, or actually, I have cut my dad off one time. I actually was like, you know what, I'm like, I can't, I can't listen to this. I can't, like, I need to stop because it's, I'm not in the right mindset to intake all of this information. And he got really mad, not really mad, but he was, like, very sensitive about it. Let him be sensitive about it. I didn't want to hear him out anymore. But just make sure when you enforce that boundary that you add the affection or the love,

you know, like because again, like, you know, you could say in a way that makes him feel like you're taking mom's side or that you're not interested in the pain he's feeling. So you have to say, like, Dad, I know, like, I can't, I don't know what it's like to being your shoes, but I know it's really hard and I'm really sad that you're going through this. And I want to be there as your daughter to like, again, you deserve happiness. I want you to be happy. I want you to get through this. I want mom to get through this.

But I am not going to listen to you talk shit about my mom. And mom, I'm not going to listen to you and talk shit about my dad. That will go a long better way than this like listening to your dad for 20 minutes bitch and then cutting him off and saying, dad, I can't do this anymore. Yeah, you're right. Because my dad can talk and talk and talk and he will not stop talking. And I have to figure out a nice way to kind of cut him off while not. Well, don't even let him go there.

You know, like that's the thing. You let him ramble for 20 minutes. He thinks you're listening to him and then you cut him off and shut it down without acknowledging anything he said. So that's going to make him feel a certain way and then have him be reactive rather than being like, dad, before you even start, I need to just like set some ground rules. I accept that as an adult, you and mom are humans just like me and you've made mistakes. I don't need to hear all of them. And you're not a perfect person. She's not a perfect person. And I'm not here to relitigate that. that and unless you, like, do you want me to hate my mom? Yeah, no. I don't think you do, you know, and you can say that's about your dad. And like, that's what I'm putting a stop to. But I love you. I appreciate everything you've done for me. I'm always going to love you. I'm always going to be your daughter. I'm always going to be here for you. Like, you got to add that to the part, you know. Okay. Yeah, I think that's what I don't do now. So, Linda, you kind of sheepishly to call answer the phone, let them vent for 20 minutes where you have to listen to them, play therapist for a moment and then finally like cut them off and say I can't do it. You know what I'm saying?

Huge difference between what I'm suggesting and what you're doing. Okay. Try that. If they try to actually tell me more information. I'm sure they will. Yeah. And if they don't, great, problem solved. But in the meantime, if they don't, be sure to, you know, encourage them, to be there for them, to, you know, assume that they are probably scared and worried and lonely and check in on them and make sure they're doing okay. Or, you know, especially with your mom. Your dad's these extroverts. He's got his friends.

Your mom's a little more introverted. She's probably, it's easier for her to isolate. So maybe take your mom out and check on her and treat her and get your nails done or whatever it is that you and your mom enjoy doing together

and spend some quality time. But while you're doing that, make sure you're enforcing that boundary. That quality time with your mom isn't permission for her to talk shit about dad. That makes sense. Cool. That's cool.

All right. Yeah. I'll take care. I appreciate you. Thank you, Nick. Have a great day. Bye-bye. Hey, guys.

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