The Viall Files - E1066 - Going Deeper with Angie Katsanevas

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition!  This week, it's the one you've all been waiting for… because ANGIE KATSANEVAS is here!!!! The Greek Goddess of hair and soundbites herself sits down on the couch to get into everything. From her relationship with Shawn and class clown awards, to Reunion tea and Meredith and Monica's recent interactions online.  This is one that you will T R U L Y not want to miss! "Legally, illegally, allegedly…" Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Thrive Market - Join Thrive Market with our link https://thrivemarket.com/viall for 30% off your first order plus a FREE $60 gift!! Legendz - Go to https://legendz.com and use promo code VIALL CashApp - Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/lglqmjxb #CashAppPod. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles     Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @angiekastanevas @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare @izeweaver

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and you will be lucky you did. Angie, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. We are so honored and excited, long overdue. But, yeah, we are honored to have you. We are a big fan favorite in the household, especially with Sweet Boy, Justin, and us. He's been singing your praises and telling everyone,

including our audience, that we've been sleeping on Angie for the longest time. He saw me before anyone saw me. Wow, thank you. It's nice to know that you had some fans out there when you had zero fans. Well, again, these going deeper episodes are really about getting to know you. I know obviously so much of Bravo knows you, but I also think, like, you know, one of my favorite things about this particular show and this interview is, you know, reality TV characters are always kind of like siloed into like however your edit goes, right? Yes.

what the fans think of you. And I think all of you women are so dynamic. And there's a reason why you guys are all stars. But so much about this show isn't about all the other aspects of your life. And it's always good to just kind of get to know the real Angie. And obviously, we'll get into the season and your time on the show and the reunion. But it's just exciting to have you. Well, thank you.

And I think that the way that I came on slowly and organically, the fans didn't really get to see my personal story. So, you know, I keep saying I wasn't, you know, an OG, I'm a new G, but I didn't get the rollout, you know, I didn't get the, this is Angie as a person. So it was, I was only being seen, you know, in conflict with women. So it's nice, you know, to get the rollout first. People give you more grace if they know you as a wife, a mother, a daughter, sister, whatnot. But so that's probably why my little, you know, my entrance was not very smooth. Well, I do believe you have made up for lost time. Thank you. I didn't work a little harder for it, but thank you. You did it. I, you know, I think let's just start with, obviously, we know you were friends with Jen. That's kind of how it was positioned as to how you got on the show. Is there any more kind of info around that? Yeah, I actually went to high school with Heather. I've known Heather since I was 15. She originally referred me to the show. They had already cast the six women when they got my name. They had not. I don't believe fully decided that it was going to be housewives. It was, we're interviewing you for a show about fabulous business women. And so, of course, my interview was very professional and I was very serious.

And, you know, the girl said, you know, tell us about all your things, brag about your stuff. If you travel, if you have these purses. And I was like, well, that's not who I am. And especially interviewing for a show about businesswoman, like, that didn't make sense to me. So I definitely gave an interview that was very professional. But then I found out it was housewives. They followed up with me the second season, and I had, you know, a little appearance and then came on season three as a guest. But Heather originally referred me.

You know, there were, Jen was a guest of my salon back in like 99. And Lisa was a current guest at the time of our salons for like 15 years. So I had some connections to the women. I ended up filming with Jen first, and, you know, it caused a bit of a rift between Heather and I, but we worked through that. And yeah, so I just sort of integrated my way in. So prior to coming on the show, as you mentioned, you had your own life. You had, you know, you were married, you're a mom. And as you mentioned, a successful businesswoman, I'd love to just kind of get into that a little bit in terms of, is that something you always wanted to do?

Like, you know, there's some people who are just like, you know, I want to get married. I want to have babies. I want to stay home. Some people are very career focused. like having this empire that you've created with Sean? Yeah, lunatic French. How did that come to be? And was that always a goal of yours?

No. I mean, I was raised babysitting children and cousins and playing with dolls. And, you know, being raised, you know, by immigrants in the Greek Orthodox community, I just wanted to be a mom my whole life. You know, I loved playing with dolls. I loved babysitting my little cousins. I love changing diapers and playing with babies. But I also was raised by my dad after my mom.

mom passed. And, you know, he worked. So I didn't really have a mother as a role model, you know, the stay-at-home mom. And I was very entrepreneurial. Like when I was young, I would do these dance classes for my neighborhood and I would charge 50 cents to come to my class. I didn't know anything about dance. But so I had, you know, I started this little business in my basement. And I just, you know, my family owned restaurants in Salt Lake City. And I think, you know, you see that. And I knew, you know, just being a business owner sort of happened organically, but I had suggested to Sean after working together for years, why don't we open our own salon? So I was a worker. I had to get a job at 15. So I think for me, having, you know, a job at a young age taught me that I had to work if I

wanted anything. So it was, that came first. And then our business just started to grow and we expanded. And we got so caught up in all of that that having a baby was not really on my radar, even though I deeply wanted to start a family. And when I was 35, I just, the biological clock was ticking. I woke up one day and I just thought we've been working our asses off and I want a baby. And so I told Sean, like, it's time because I'm getting older. And thank goodness I started trying. I had electronaturally. And, you know, it took me a year.

I tried to have another, but I was too old. and it didn't happen for me. So I just, yeah, I think I had a little bit of all of it, you know, being raised babysitting and then also being raised by a man that worked. And I saw his work ethic and he was my role model. And I saw, you know, I could do both. And so, yeah, and I love my job. But I stayed home and raised my daughter full time by myself until she went to school.

How did you want to try to meet? In a hair salon. I went in to get a haircut. He was working there with his big muscles. and his long hair and his hoop earrings. And he was so good looking. And he was a bodybuilder and a hairdresser. And it was just so you didn't see straight men doing hair at that time, which I know sounds crazy,

which leaves for, you know, obviously things have changed since then. There are a lot of straight men, you know, that are hairdressers. But he was so kind and so sweet and not really a macho guy. He was just kind of a soft-spoken, quiet, very focused on his career and show. I just love that about him. Who asked who? I would say it was probably, okay, I was 19 as a client there and he had a girlfriend. Then I started working there at 21.

We'd both become single, newly single, and he would just flirt with me in the back room and hold my hand under the table. And then he asked me to dinner one Valentine's night. Valentine's Day. Yeah. 21. I was 21 and he was 24. Wow. What makes your relationship work so well after all these years?

Well, I guess we both have a great sense of humor, I have to say. And, you know, we started out really passionate about the beauty industry. So we had that in common. I think, you know, having that in common, having businesses together, we always had a project going, you know, opening salons. We built our last two homes together. We co-parent together. I mean, we're both very much involved with our daughter. And, you know, I think having a sense of humor, I have to say, we're both pretty funny people.

I'm the funnier one, but that's very important, especially after 30 years, you know, it's not easy. You know, you evolve together. You're not the same person. You know, you were as, you know, what? That's 30 years later. I mean, yeah, that's a hard to grow together. There's a lot of hiccups. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot going on there to grow together.

and it's a lot being business partners, parents married. And, you know, when we work together, we worked together all the time. We were so close. And once we had a lecture, you know, you do, you separate and you have to go parallel for a while. And you're doing different things. I mean, I think projects together are important. Totally. I mean, 30 years is such an incredible number and inspiring, obviously, for us.

And, you know, I guess, you know, the state of relationships these days, you know, you, you hear more about relationships not working out. But, you know, at your comfort level, I'm curious. I mean, they always say, like, all marriages, you know, you have your ups and downs. But was there ever a time in your and Sean's relationships where you guys did have to, you felt maybe a little disconnected and you had to like find your way back to each other? And I'm curious, like, if that, if there was a time like that, how were you guys able to do that? I think that, you know, you really find that when you have children.

and because we were always working together. And I decided to stay home, which wasn't in the cards. But the minute I had her, I just could not pull myself away. So suddenly we were living parallel lives because he had to take on what he once had a partner in and do it alone. And I was home raising this baby and I didn't want to be away from her. And, you know, your lives change. And, you know, I always say, look, you're going to go through this your whole life because we're evolving as humans. all the time. And sometimes you grow together. Sometimes you grow apart and come back together. You can

never get comfortable in these situations because you're always evolving, you know, especially if you're into your career and you have things outside of working together, you're, you know, you're changing. You're learning, you're doing new things. You're, you know, it's so it's something that you have to work at your whole life. And it is not easy. I will say that it's, it's not easy. I joke that, you know, there's, there's all, and you may have felt this before about NID, but let's be honest, there's times you want to put the pill over their face at night, collect on the wife insurance palsy. No, I mean, you know, there's, there's those moments in there. And anyone who pretends there's not is lying. You can't be together that long and, you know, not.

30 years of that. Yeah, have, have hard times. When you got presented the opportunity to be a housewife, um, I'm curious, like, what conversations did you and Sean have? Because I, as somebody knows how the sausage is made, so to speak, and specifically in Bravo World, and I, you know, we'll get into like how you kind of handle boundaries when it comes to relationships, but the boundaries you often say you have often aren't respected. And, you know, that's not just with this show, but reality TV in general. And it's, it seems very common that, you know, reality TV is almost like a death sentence for relationships or certainly puts relationships at risks. I mean, your, your marriage has been put on

blast by the show and some of your cast members. But I'm curious, like, going in when you guys got asked to do this, how did you guys talk about this show and how you guys were going to not put your marriage at risk, even though the show might, you know, poke holes in it and question things? And, yeah, I'm curious if you guys talked about that prior to saying yes to this opportunity. You know, that's a great question. We didn't have a conversation because you cannot. It's like parenthood.

You cannot prepare yourself. You cannot brace yourself because you have no idea until it happens. Like I had no idea what I was signing up for. I had no idea people would say or question my marriage after 30 years. When in Salt Lake City, there were never these crazy rumors out there. And it's like, how can you prepare yourself for something that you have no idea what it's like? And then you're learning in the moment. You're learning in real time.

You're reading people saying things. You're hearing things. You're dealing with, you know, people dropping moms for a reaction at your expense on the show. And that's how you learn about it. There was no way. One thing I will say, Sean was fully supportive of me doing the show. And that is all we had before I started the show. No conversations, but him being fully supportive of me taking this opportunity.

And he would always say when it happened, and people started to say, things, he'd say, well, what did you expect? You're on housewives. So his attitude was actually better than mine. Yeah, he kind of expected it almost. He was almost mentally prepared in a way. Yes, he was, and I was not. Did you ever feel like you had to

apologize to Sean for any kind of stray, yeah, for catching any stray, so to speak. Definitely, because again, I wasn't prepared. I thought I was on the show, say what you want about me. But when they started to bring Sean up, I was just like, okay, now you're just going for the low-hanging fruit. This is ridiculous. And it's not fair to me. Like, if you are aspirational, you have anything to lose, and then you come on the show and have people say these things, and then to bring your spouse into, you know, whatever, into the show when they didn't sign up. I felt

really bad. I did. But at the same time, I felt like it was an opportunity for Sean to show, you know, what a great guy he was and how he handled it. So while I was really upset that he was, he was, was catching strays. I was also really proud of him for, you know, how he handled it, how inclusive and loving he was in, you know, how he handled accusations. So I really feel like Sean came out on top and people got to know him a little bit better and people got to see him in a different light. So yes, I did feel bad. Yes, I apologize. Yes, I was like angry that, you know, people were talking about him. He took it better than me though. He was great about it. And again, said, what did you expect?

What conversations did you have or do you have with Electra? I mean, obviously, like, our daughter's two, almost two, so she's too young to have any conversations with. But I'm sure at some point there's going to be like, hey, we're in this space. People say things about us. You might hear it. You might read it. Like, how do you have those conversations with Electra?

It's a great question. Sean and I both said we feel like it builds resilience. Yeah. Because she knows about this. before a lot of her friends do, meaning your parents are in the spotlight. They're in the limelight. People are going to say things. People are going to, you know, write things on social media. But the biggest thing that I remind her of is you have a strong sense of self. You know who you are. You know who your parents are. And I think it's been a reminder to raise her really with a strong sense of self and identity so that you can ignore those comments as much as possible and really realize that it's not real.

and that if you put your phone down, that it's not real. And so it's like she's learning this early before. And her school's very inclusive, you know, and really she's had a great experience. She's in high school now. But, you know, the internet can be cruel. And I think it just has kind of mentally prepared her, you know, for what she might do within the next couple of years. But we talk about it a lot.

There was a scene that we had at a restaurant when these rumors and nastiness came up. and we told her, hey, you know, this has come up. You might hear about it at school. You know, it may be brought up by your friends. And then Sean told her what the rumors were. And she started laughing her head off. And she's got a great sense of humor. And I thought it was so cute. I'm sad that it didn't air. She was eating a shake. And her head went back and she was just in laughter. And she thought it was funny that people said that about her dad. She was able to laugh it off. And I wish that scene would have aired because it shows that we are preparing our kids for what people are going to say. And we talk a lot. We have a lot of open conversations at the dinner table. And I think it's important to talk and keep talking and always keep it an open conversation.

In fact, I will tell her, oh, somebody wrote this about me and I'll start laughing. And because I have a good sense of humor too. And I think as I want to be a good role model, an example, that I can laugh but often that I don't take to heart every negative thing that I see. And I don't like base my life off every positive thing that I see. You have to know who you are and go from there. I'm also like seeing her reaction to that made you be like, oh my God, yeah, you're right. Like this doesn't matter. It made me so happy. And you know, what's great about her school is nobody teased her, nobody brought it up.

And I thought she's blessed to go to school or she does because that's not always the case. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything a fan has said about you that has really like gotten to you or bothered you in a way you didn't expect? The one thing that I don't love is, you know, like I would rather have someone attack my parents, versus my character. Because, you know, to me, it's like, you know, we can all say something about how somebody looks. But when someone will say you're mean or you're a bully, that's not who I am. But there are times being on this show where you are put in a position to defend yourself or you're caught off guard and you react in a way that you're not always proud of.

And, you know, that's why I love watching myself and say, how can I do this different next year? how can I do this better? And like, you know, the argument I had with Lisa and Mary told me that I brought up my reaction. And, you know, from there on, I thought, I'm just not going to let anyone get that kind of reaction out of me. Like, I wasn't proud of myself. But what's cool about being on this show, not many people have the opportunity to be under a lens where they can look at their marriage at them as a mother, at their life, and say, whoa, did I really say or do that? Not many people, very, you know, it's rare to be able to watch. watch yourself on television. And like watch your growth. Yes. And I mean, I listened to a,

in a parenting class once where the therapist said, if you walk in on your kids and you are being filmed and are like you're on a reality show, you're going to talk to them differently than if you're not thinking anyone's looking. And I thought, that is just, it's so true. It really makes you think about your actions more and see yourself through a different lens. So I just feel like this is such a cool experience to do this and learn how I can be better, be different. handle things differently? Many people think that your show is the best show on Bravo right now.

Oh, where's the lie? You give, give, give. The stars of Bravo. I won't put you on the spot whether you think that, but what... I do, though. Yes, and you should. Glad you can confirm.

I'll just be real. Yeah. It's hard to go from your show onto a different show and then be like, too many people are saying it. You've got John Oliver. You've got, you know, celebrities. Jennifer Lawrence,

Rihanna loves that. I mean, recently, I mean, there's just so many. Julia Roberts. What do you think? You know, we actually had Alex Baskin on last week, who's the executive producer for Bev Hills and Orange County and some other prominent Bravo shows.

And we asked his opinion why he thinks your show works so well. But I am curious from your point of view, why do you think Salt Lake is beloved as much as it is? And why do you think you are able to put such a captivating series together? You know, I think all the women are different. So you've got all these women that everyone in the world can say, I am her, or I want to be her, or she's, you know, they can relate. We're relatable in a strange way because we're over the top, but we're not too over the top. But I think every single one of us is hilarious in different ways. And I didn't know until I watched it.

And even like Meredith used to drive me crazy because we didn't get a long. And I thought she was mean, but now I watch her. And some of the ways she responds, it's so funny. And I can say, okay, like, I can see why people find her funny. But, you know, every woman on this show is funny in their own way. They're real. They're vulnerable. And I think they're all really honest and they're not acting.

They're playing themselves. They're being themselves. And it's a crazy group of women, but in the best way. Yeah, I do feel like y'all, I mean, y'all feel. feel like y'all are actually friends. Yeah, I think there's a lot of love there. Yeah, like, yeah, like when they, part one reunion, when they showed kind of the clip of the past 100 episodes or whatever. And it was just, all of you do find a way to at the end of the day, like, come together. It's all like water under the bridge. And you're just like, whatever. Yes. And I mean, that is true. I think everyone does truly love each other.

And I think everyone's interesting. That's another thing that makes this. cast great is everyone is interesting. And everyone can hold their own. Yes. Yes. That's a good point. Like everyone's whole and life is interesting. Yeah.

Like I want to see everyone at home with their husbands, with their kids. I want to see everyone together arguing, fighting. I want to see you like having a nice moment. You know, like I'm interested in every second that you do. Of all the women on your cast, who are the ones or one that you would say is, you're confidant, like that you vent to about this show if you were to vent to any of them. I'm going to say Mary and Heather, you know, for different reasons. You know, they're the people that I'm the closest with.

I mean, Heather will validate me and hear me. And she'll, like, you know, be a cheerleader. And she thinks I'm hilarious. And she taught me to bring my external thoughts forward. And then Mary gives me a whole different accountability piece to how I'm acting, what I'm doing. You know, she's very real with me. So for different reasons, I probably talk to those two the most. And then Whitney is...

You and Mary's friendship is... I also, like, we really enjoyed watching you on What the Wife Swap Show. Oh, thank you. And for that brief cameo where Mary popped in, I felt like we saw a different Mary. It was like, this isn't housewife, Mary. This is like Angie's friend, Mary. And it was like a really fun to see. But that was a very heartwarming and charming episode.

Thank you. I was grateful just to have that opportunity. The whole, the whole, pooping in a bag. Oh, yeah. Yep. I had to really, you know, just embrace the lifestyle. I mean, what was that experience like? That it really, I mean, other than just like kind of a goofy premise and a show,

but it appeared to be a bit transformative. But like, what was it like that for you in real life? I just, I fell in love with that family. You know, I did. It's two days ago. The mother sent me a photo and said, Hazel wanted you to see this photo of her. And the dad Tanner texted me and said, my kids talk about you and we'd love to come see you guys in the next couple weeks. I mean, I just, I feel like I want to go back out there. I want to go to that place on the map and spend some time.

Their lifestyle is beautiful. It's so, it's so different from, you know, the way that I live. It's, there's no pressures. It's simple. It's about the simple things in life, you know, eating off the land and homeschooling their children or being home as a family. being out in nature. I mean, my dad was raised that way. So for me, I was actually drawn to it. No electricity, no running water, no. I mean, it really reminded you of what's important. And I think that, I think we all need to spend some time like that in our life. And then I pulled back up on my house and I thought, oh, dear God, you know, got its portion of the garage. I've got this big giant house for three people, all these clothes. I mean, I felt glutton us and I felt a little. guilty about my lifestyle when I came home. And they were such a beautiful family and they had everything they needed. But I fell in love with them. I mean, it was a connection that I will forever have.

I mean, you could tell. Like, you that was, you could see that. It went both ways. Yeah. How did Sean and Electro? You know, I think, you know, for her, it was like, you know, Lindsay was a little more, you know, shy and quiet and electricity to my personality. So, you know, But Lindsay took her phone. Lindsay had them hauling buckets of water up and down my street. I live on a hill. Things that never aired. You know?

So there was a lot of moments that never made it that she was like, oh my gosh, when's mom coming home? She had to miss her eighth grade, you know, her last week of school party. She was very upset about that. And so, you know, it was probably just a great little look into Lindsay's life for Electra also. And she's a teenager. She wants to be on the phone with her friends.

She wants to be out with her friends, not home gutting fish, not. sleeping out in a tent or hauling buckets of water and not being Greek yes and but you know I think she did enjoy planning the garden I think there were some fun moments in there for her so I think it was just very enlightening and you know I'm no stranger hard work so doing the work on the property I actually I enjoyed it I mean I was like on an adventure I was on that little you know four-wheeler going out to see the view I was in the hospitales I was playing with small children Hazel they didn't even show how many hugs the day I got. And I had her in my arms for most of the day. She, I mean, I gave her a haircut, which could not air because they had to skin, they had a snake show up on the property. And long story short, they had to cut the head off. They had to skin, they had to skin it. And they were going to barbecue it, living off the land. But they couldn't, they, they couldn't show, they didn't want to show that. And so me giving Hazel a haircut never made the cut. But she had a little

carostas shampoo, scalp massage. the treatment, and I wash her hair with ice cold water that was from the spring. And I said, my daughter would scream if I poured ice cold water on her head. And this little girl just sat there with her eyes closed. So it was just really special. They're beautiful people. And I also felt like the audience got to see really the real me, you know, with children and just being in an environment where I am adaptable. No, I really, I really enjoyed that show just because it does. You were shown in a different light. And it was refreshing to see. And even that you. We got to see of Mary, which wasn't much, but even that was different. And it was, again, like,

it's a different version of what we get to do with you here. But it was, it was really refreshing. Well, an Electra was so excited to see Mary. And so that was cute, too. I think it was a nice, it was a great visit. Speaking of, fans seem to really love the dynamic between Mary and Electra. And they're dying to know, what, what do they gossip and talk about when Electra and Mary are getting together? Well, you know what Mary said when she first met Electra, she said to me, I don't know why you whoever's scared of me, she's like, Electra's just like me. I'm like, she kind of is.

I mean, they're both very blunt. They're both very direct. And Elektra loves her and gets such a kick out of her. And Mary loves Elektra. You know, she text message her separately on Christmas. Merry Christmas, beautiful Elektra.

I mean, which is very sweet to, you know, take the time to reach out to your friend's children. And, you know, she's brought electric gifts. She's very thoughtful. She gave her a Louis Vuitton purse. And for her first appearance

on Watch What Happens Live. And Elektra's not, you know, she, it's not even about what it was. It's just, it's the thought. It's the thought that she's kind to her. She's funny. And they're both actually really hilarious. And I've seen funny things online about the two of them. And I just crack up when I see it.

I think it was earlier this season. Maybe it was last season. But you and Mary had a bit of a disconnect, a bit of a rift. Can you just remind us what that was all about and how did you two work through that? Well, it was presented as the far fight, but really what it stemmed from was she was upset at Whitney's lunch at the little wine tasting that Lisa and I were going at it. And Mary was telling me, calm down, stop yelling. And she didn't like how I was reacting because she felt it wasn't necessary. And she was right.

And I was so upset. I didn't hear her. I was too busy. Like, I was in a rage and I didn't hear her. And she wanted me to hear her and take her advice as a friend. because she wanted me to be better and do better. And so it wasn't really a fart fight. It was that I was not listening. And she felt like I shouldn't be, you know, reacting like that. She wasn't really proud of my behavior as my friend. And that's what really started at all. And she's like,

what are you doing? You know, you have a daughter. Why are you acting this way? And that just devastated me, too. It's like, well, thank you for raising that point. And great reminder. And I wasn't proud of it either. And then it turned into, everyone thought it was a fart fight, but that's, that is where it started. Every time you say the word fart fight, so yeah, moving forward, I know I shouldn't say the word, but moving forward, I tried to be more conscious and more conscious of listening to her, you know, because she was trying to help me in the moment. I mean, that's kind of big of you to notice because, you know, that, to me, that's a real friend, as opposed to just being the friend who's always there to have fun with you, you know. Yes, she was trying to help.

And especially in the world in which you operate, how does someone like you able to get out of your own head or own bullshit, so to speak, and recognize that Mary hasn't concerned herself with some of your cast members when they are acting out and misbehaving in Mary's eyes? But she was looking out for you. And I'm curious, like, how are you able to have that perspective? Yeah, you know, I've always been open to feedback. and I think I'm kind of I'm hard on myself too in a sense that I I want to always do better and be better and evolve as a human. And so when people tell me things, even if I'm in the heat of the moment, I do hear them. And I do want to improve. And I'm not above trying to be better. I never have been. And I think that's part of why I'm a self-made woman along with my husband, because I started at the bottom. And in order to, grow, you have to be open to feedback. You have to be open to criticism, not from trolls, but from people that love you and care about your. Constructive. Constructive criticism. Yes. And so I think I've always strived for that. And so I've always heard people, you know,

when I always say if someone leaves my business, I'm not like, oh, it's their fault. I say, oh, like, what could we have done differently or better? I try to grow from every opportunity, whether it's personal or business. What was the suitman argument? I mean, oh, the suit man. Oh, soup, man. But yeah, we were all like, was it soup or suit? Well, I thought it was soup.

And then apparently it was suit. Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah, so we were all, I think, also. I thought it was soup. I thought it was soup, too. Yes, yes, it was suit. It was also, didn't Lisa say shorty?

Yes. Then shorty. Yeah, so that song, Shorty, it's your birthday. I'm going to have to have everyone sing me that song on my birthday. I am 5'3. She's five, five, three and a half. Getting into this season, I'm curious as we are kind of right smack in the middle of the reunion, how do you reflect on this season as a whole?

Oh, that's interesting. I think it was a great season. You know, the plane ride just sort of, the show took a whole detour after that. And it kind of just hijacked our entire, you know, second half of the season. And it was, when something is not done on camera, that's why I won't have off-camera conversations with anyone anymore. Like, you know, I had a great season finale with Lisa, but I haven't really talked to her since, you know. It's like, I think it's better to pick up sometimes when cameras are rolling, when there's been tension or an issue, because no one knows what went on. And it's

hard for the viewer to really understand when it's a he said, she said thing. So it was great to watch. I think it was an excellent season. But viewers had to make their own decision based on what they heard, not what they saw. So I think, you know, congrats to the editors. for doing the best job that they could with, you know, a story they were being told with two sides, you know? Without any footage, yeah. And I can see both sides to, you know, to the stories.

You, you, I mean, often, I've noticed, especially this season, and particularly even the finale, but you often will take a backseat to drama or an argument. Like, and this is a compliment in the best possible way. You don't always feel, it doesn't seem like you always feel like the need to, like, insert yourself if it's not about you. And so in some ways, I feel like you can be Switzerland. But getting into the plane ride, we've certainly had the opportunity to speak with Brittany, who was obviously involved in the plane ride. And we've heard her point of view and her strong

feelings about that. I'm just curious, kind of, where do you land on what happened on that plane ride? Yeah. I could only hear stuff going on. And I thought they were just partying, like having wine, like celebrating that the trip was over. That's what usually happens on flights. after everyone will have wine, we're laughing, we take over, you know, the whole first class, and it's just fun, traveling home. But because I was in row one with headphones for some of it, watching a movie for others, I could hear. And then Whitney was texting me saying, oh my God, they won't stop. I didn't know something was going on. I thought they were just having fun. So there was noise. There was noise. When we landed, I turned around and I saw Britney,

and she was, it was actually devastating. I'm a human, you know, Brittany does some dingy thing. but to see her back there just, she couldn't even breathe. She was crying hysterically, and my heart just broke when I saw her. I thought, what has been happening? And so I don't want to say Switzerland, because I like to have an opinion, but where I was put the second half of the season was something happened that I did not see. So it was hard for me to form an opinion, obviously something more than just saying a few things here and there happened. I think in Meredith's defense, Brittany should have never said what she said about her marriage.

I did not like that one bit. And Brittany hasn't figured that out yet. Huge. You know, Meredith probably went way too far and she's not acknowledging or she hasn't really taken full accountability for it yet. Whether she doesn't remember because she was in a rage or she just doesn't want to own up to it and thinks it will just go away, I don't know because I didn't see it. It's been really fascinating as fans to break it down and discuss and debate. Because it is. And there's too many witnesses who were there, who were like, listen, something bad happened. And certainly we saw Brittany be upset. So if nothing else, Britney's reaction justifies some kind of acknowledgement. There's that, right? Meredith has been steadfast. She has been stubborn. She has been Meredith. And fine. And it seems like because of Meredith's decision to put her heel in the ground, there's seems to be, and I guess in my or some of fans' opinion, an overreaction, because for the life of me,

the Whitney and the Marys, the conversations around like the alcoholism, uh, the comments about Seth, you're talking about comments about marriage. It's just like, wait, what are we doing here? You're like, and all of a sudden, I found myself being like, man, it seemed like Meredith is something really bad on the plane to being like, why are we treating Meredith like this? And the finale, I found myself for the first time in a long time being more team Lisa and Meredith than I was team Whitney and Mary. And I'm just curious kind of how you see that. Yeah. Well, you know, part of the problem was it's like I think they were basing their opinion as far as something's going on with her on some past experiences where she may have seemed overserved or there's been a lot of that in the past, you know, accents and crazy, you know, these big huge reactions that.

might appear a little, you know, little nutty at times. So there was all that. But then the day of the finale, she's just sober and pissed off for people talking about her marriage. I don't blame her. I've been there. I don't like it. And then she was also sober and they kept saying something's wrong with you. And so because she was not responding, it was, it looks interesting to viewers, right? Like, why are they coming so hard at her? But it's almost like for years of stuff. that they've witnessed. And then in that moment, she was the calmest one at the finale. So it looks strange.

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To potentially defend Brittany a little bit, she seems like a goofball. And we've had the pleasure of meeting her. And she's, I mean, she is who she is. And I love it, you know. But I could see why if I had the pleasure of being around Brittany, you know, more than I have been, where, like, I could see it getting on a nerve or two of mine. Oh, yeah. It's like your annoying little sister. That being said, the things that she does, I feel like you could say all of you at some point, you know, she's not the only one who's brought up a marriage, you know.

Yes. It kind of almost felt like last season it was her first time. She was a friend of, but as friends of goes, she was a pretty prominent character. Yeah, she brought a lot. And it almost kind of felt like she was, kind of treated like the odd man out of the little sister and where she's kind of almost been

fighting for her spot and respect from the rest of you women. And I just, why do you feel like it comes across that way for the fans that like she's just not treated the same as the rest of you women seem to treat each other? And while she does do some things, I didn't seem like she's ever done anything that anyone else hasn't done at some point. Yeah, it's interesting. And I'm going to reference, you know, when I was on Watch Rapids Live with John Oliver, he said, and he's a comedian, he's hilarious, but he said she was an effective punching bag because she brings a stuffed animal to every event, a talking stuffed animal. It's, and then brings up, it's like the relationship is on, off, on off. It's crazy. I mean, it's like, you know, then she's allowing

this person to disrespect her, so she says, and then goes back to him. Obviously, you know, I think with her. She's gone through a lot with her daughters, and I'm so grateful that things are better now, because her daughters are just the most amazing girls. So I think, you know, as mothers, sometimes, you know, we feel differently or we're in different situations with our kids. So I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's some, the level of maturity, like the stuffed animal. So yeah, she is a lot like us, but, you know, no one's brought a stuffed animal. But it's actually become hilarious, right? No one else is splashing. No one else is splashing. Yeah, it's It sounds like some of the games are a little childish at times or she lacks maturity at times.

But then again, it brings some funny moments to the show. I mean, how seriously she took it when I commented on her hair and she was so deeply offended that I said her hair looked cheap. I'll never, her when I rewatch it, I mean, you know, look, Brittany is ditsy. She's done some things where you say, okay, could she evolve? a little bit and maybe see that some of her actions or I don't I don't find it interesting to go say horrible things about people's marriage or or businesses and that's where I say we're an interesting cast if you're interesting enough you don't need to be the person dropping those bombs and I also feel like Brittany may not be being herself 100% yet because I did her show with her

New York Whitney Heather myself and Bronwyn and she was just delightful and she was a star on that stage She was, I mean, she brought me to, she moved me to tears listening to her sing. And I thought, okay, this girl has some star quality. Is it on a Broadway stage or could we see more of this on the show? Because that night, I just was like, wow, she lit up that stage. So, and I know I'm just all over the place. I'm probably not answering your question is just the stuffy and the repetitiveness of the boyfriend. Like maybe she could move on to some different topics next season that are not about other people's marriage and we could get to know more about her. She's obviously, her daughters are incredible. I'd love to see more of that. Yeah, I see where you're coming from of just like the, you know, it's like the I saw a TikTok and it's like, come on, of your marriage, you know, or then the. I hated that. They're like, you know, well, what about me? Like my problems are bigger and worse than your problem. So like, why don't you care about mine? And it's like a not a one-upping of, you know, who's been

through worse situations. It's just like we should all be support each other. She's like a ball hog sometimes, but like pass me the ball and I'm going to bring up the same story again. And you know, it's like we all have, you know, there's amazing husbands and other men on the castle deserve some air time. And we're repeating the same old story when there's like some really great successful men with great stories. And we're not talking about our own husbands because we're talking about Jared and a unicorn, you know. It's like I feel like there's, There's more to her, you know, if she's coming back, you know, that we all, you know, because I don't know who's coming back.

I'm just saying, I'm not saying. That hopefully, you know, there's something outside of uni and Jared and, you know, a little deeper. What is your opinion about Jared? Okay, look, when I met Jared, I'm like, Jared is actually charming when you first meet him. He's very nice. He's very complimentary. But the on and off again thing. And I do think Jared, if you're watching, I do think Jared pretends he doesn't love the show or the cameras, but I think Jared loves it.

And maybe a little too much and maybe a little more than Brittany. And I'd like to see Brittany outside of Britney and Jared. I want to get to know Brittany outside of Britney and Jared. I think there's a lot more there. And we need to just see less of him so we can really know who she is. I still don't feel like I know who she is. Britney on stage, that's who she really is. She does, she, you know, Britney's also not stupid.

She's obviously a very intelligent person, but you're right. I mean, that is, in fairness to what you're saying, how Britney chooses to show up and the character, I'm not saying she's playing a character, but that she doesn't show some of these other sides of her that she clearly has. And I guess that's her choice. Yeah. And to add to that, it's, I hate to say this because we're on reality television, but I feel like Britney's not playing herself.

You know, I do think that we see some parts of it, but I don't know if she's not sure how to, if she could just kind of relax and be more of herself, which I took some time to do, so I get it. I was really on the fence when it came to the, was it the copyright? Oh, the trademark. On one end, if I'm you, I'm pissed at Brittany. I'm like, you said it. You came up with it. Then again, if I'm Brittany, I'm like, if I'm Brittany, I'm like,

Like, well, you know, welfare is in love and war kind of thing. Like, she did it, you know, kind of, I was kind of like impressed that Brittany had the saviness to do that. But, you know. Her boyfriend did at the time the guy she was dating, told her to do it. Brittany would not be rude. I know I called her little dittsorella, but I don't know that that was on her. I do know that it costs about four or five thousand dollars.

$800. But I don't know that she fully owns it yet. She applied. I'm pretty sure it's a few thousand. To get a trademark. When you probably get to like the finish line. Yeah. But she applied for it and she said she had to put down $800.

And he did it and then he asked her to have done more of the money. And it's like Heather, you know, and we just giggled. It's like this guy is just like. Yeah. And he probably. So long story short, I'm not, I always say, I listen to Betty White once. And she said she learned how. to say a joke, and it had to land at the right time. It had to be set in the right moment.

And that's what that moment was. It was how it all landed. So the delusion of her thinking, like, she should own it is, it wasn't that she did it. It was, everyone was getting mad at her. Even Lisa, we weren't in the greatest place, and she was like, Brittany, and everyone was appalled. And she's like, what? What? What are you talking about? What? I was on the, I mean, that's what was so funny was like, oh my God, she saw it. Like, she didn't even for a minute say, well, Angie, I guess I could see why you would think it was weird. There was none of that, which is probably what makes her kind of funny. My merch anyway says, high body count hair by Angie K. To me, it's like I had this moment that'll go down and has gone down in Housewives history. High body count

hair is forever in the lexicon. And because I said it, and that's what people will watch and we'll giggle about. And when I'm 100, people are just still going to be giggling about it. And that's all that matters to me. I knew you said it. I forgot that you said it about. Brittany. Oh, see? Isn't that interesting? He said, hey, you know, what matters to me is that I brought people joy. I made people laugh and people will forever remember and I love making people laugh. So to me, I got the moment. He said, what about slut? Why don't you trade? I said, if someone calls you a slut, do you own that word too? It's like, do we own everything that people call us? I told her and they never aired it, but I said, that would be like me trademarking, you can leave. Like, who does that?

Like you're tape rocking someone's wittiness in a moment. You don't own that because you're like Monica taking screenshots. Yeah, exactly. It's so true. It's so weird to me. Why do you think you're so good and at being a sniper with your words that you're so famously? No, no. You know, I was always told by my friends that I was witty.

And when I was 12, I was like, what is witty? I didn't even know what it meant. And I remember hearing that my whole life. You're witty and you have the best. best one-liners. And I just, I was funny since I was little. Um, I don't know if it's having a big family and having to be funny to even get it. I mean, I guess I was just born this way. Yes. But I was funny. I'm a natural. Just, yeah. What do do. I love your hair. Actually, I do. And I love your hair. But, uh, I've always just been funny. I've been a class clown since

sixth grade. And I got voted funny as two years in a row at school. It's in my yearbook. Uh, even, even over Heather. Um, and she's funny. But, uh, I don't know. My family's just all kind of funny and sarcastic. And I just think, I joke that I grew up, you know, with the gays. And I was 19 years old. I stepped into the beauty industry. And I was surrounded by the funniest people. And we just laughed. I mean, I work in a fun and funny workplace. And I worked all day around funny, fun people. So my wit and sense of humor was this on display all day for a job. And now I'm actually, making people laugh, it's the coolest job in the world that people find me hilarious. I can say what I'm thinking and get not fired for it, but paid for it. I mean, it's just, it's so fun that I can just be my funny self and people enjoy it. It makes me so happy. It makes us happy too. Thank you. Two of your former castmates, Monica Garcia and Jen Shaw. You had to. Just kidding. You want to go then.

Well, what? Have you seen Jen? since she's been released? No, I have not. No. I believe you said when asked, who would you rather have back, Jen Shaw or Monica Garcia, you said Jen Shaw.

Yeah, and, you know, that's based on not what she's done, you know, legally, or illegally. It's just that, you know, allegedly. Thank you. Yeah, let me add that in there.

Legally, illegally, allegedly. It was based on that she's funny to me. You know, she has a sense of humor. she could walk in a room and that's what I said to Andy she could win people over

of all ages and she was charismatic she was loved by everyone that met her and that's what made her fun and funny on the show you could film with her and she would say

the funniest things I just did not have that experience with Monica with Monica with our journey with Monica has been fascinating just because

when receipts proof timelines whatever when that all happened I was vehement against Monica as someone who had been

reality TV, I very much connected with all of you in terms of be like, that would have been so fucked up to find out, you know, it just felt like someone like infiltrated your space in a very sneaky way. Then we had the opportunity to interview Monica and meet her in person. And well, I didn't agree with everything she said or even necessarily believe everything she said. I found her to be quite charming and really nice. And I also think she made some valid points as well. And to that end, you know, Monica's often chiming in the comments about your show.

She's still a fan clearly and watches you guys. Yeah, she is a fan. Thanks for watching. Yeah. But she does, you know, like sometimes it does feel, some like kind of like with Britney, where it's just like a lot of you have lied to. A lot of you had, have gone behind each other's backs. It's, you know, some of you have been a cute, not you, I don't think, but like, you know,

I think Meredith and Lisa, you know, they're often. seem to, they seem to have close relationships with people online. They seem to have spread rumors about people. And while totally get, you know, that you guys are mad at Monica, why is what she did so much more unforgivable than some of the other things that, not necessarily you, but like some of your castmates have done to each other? Well, and I can kind of only speak on my experience. When she came on, she told me that she was most excited to film with me on a call. had. And I just thought, okay, cool. Like, she was very nice to me. And it just, she turned on me immediately and then did that whole dropping things about my marriage on national television.

It was just, it was cruel. I won't forgive that. That is outside of anything she's, else she's done. And it was like in the first week, she even got rude with me in Palm Springs and immediately started turning on me. And I am a real friend. Like, had she stayed by my side and been a good person, I would have had her back to the end. And not hers, anyone's. And if she was mistreated, I would have supported her. So she showed me her true colors in a week. That is my experience with Monica.

And then she just still goes and trolls me. And someone said she said she was going to come back to the show and make me mediocre. It's like, I don't know what I did to you, but I do know what you did to me. And as a mother, you know, you put some really horrible rumors out there. You were happy to drop them. you couldn't wait to have that little moment. You didn't have to do that. I have a daughter at home and you have children at home. She should have had more respect. And then, you know, to just go and in Palm Springs, she was already turning on me and siding with Meredith. And then to find out from

others that on the flight from Palm Springs, she was talking about me with Meredith the entire time. And it's like, it's just really it hurt me to the core. So I, I, for me, I don't trust her and that's that was where I formed my that is my experience with her and also the fact that she's still out saying mean things about me online I don't talk about her I have her blocked I haven't said anything horrible about her I have the right to choose that I feel like Jen was funnier on the show and Monica taking that so seriously and going off about it for days shows that Jen is funnier and she has no sense of humor you know like she really just took it to heart was going ballistic about it like she's you know I why would she think I'd want her to come back after

that. What she said was cruel, and I don't, you know, forgive that. And, you know, as far as the other women go, there were a lot of, I think the stalking of Jen made them uncomfortable. I do know that, so I can say that factually. Some of the texts that we saw images of, of what she was saying about the women, there were some things in there that would have really hurt people that she wanted to say out loud. And I just thought, why would she want to come on the show and do that? So that's where I say, you know, there's people that want to come on the show and they think that taking people down is going to make them a good housewife. And you called me a fan favorite. And I mean, I don't know. Like, thank you. I don't know if I really am. Thank you. But like I want to be interesting and fun,

but I don't want to come on and say, oh, I know this about her. I'm going to say that. And because the ones of us that have businesses and, you know, we care about what our, you know, families have to go through online, we're the ones that have a lot at risk and a lot to lose. You know, coming on and saying the things that she did or some of the things that Brittany said, even about Meredith's marriage, it's just, you, maybe they don't have a lot to lose. And that's how they come on this show. But it's, it's going to make people not want to be a part of it because it's really hurtful. I was just going to ask, I mean, Monica and Meredith have kind of teamed up recently. Yeah, Meredith has been agreeing or liking some of Monica's content. Yeah, I heard that. So I'm curious. I assume your cast is talking about this. And do you think that, I guess, potential unity between them, even if it's online, will affect Meredith's relationship with the rest of your cast?

Well, you have a toddler. So you know, the book, if you give a mouse a cookie. Like she, you know, gave her one little crumb. And from what I hear, she's just now just all over online. Like, you know, it's like, oh my gosh, Meredith saw me. She heard it. You know, like when a celebrity hearts your stuff and you're a big fan of their. It's like, oh my gosh, you know, so now it feels like, you know, Meredith, you know, gave her a little

crumb and she's just feeding off it. And that's okay. You know, Meredith has the right to do that. But I think after being on the beach in that moment with her hair blowing in the wind and she was crying that why are people hurting, why are people always trying to hurt us? And then now she's like heart. It's confusing to someone like me. You know, I don't know. You know, I can't speak on anyone else's behalf, but I thought it was strange. And Meredith told me once that Monica's no one she would ever associate with. So I'm a little confused by it all.

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's just going to make Meredith lose credibility with some of her castmates for saying one thing and doing another. But Meredith is looking for support on her behalf. Had you seen the video of Lisa talking about Todd at BravoCon? No. That was jarring. That was jarring. Yeah. I heard something about it.

We remind me what it was. She was like body shaming him. Yes. Oh my gosh. And like someone, there was like clearly a fan like kind of over. Oh, shoulder. Shoulder kind of peeking. And but, you know, it's Lisa talking shit about Todd to fans, which is if.

Mean. I want to just say something here. I mean, Todd is actually has a good side. And I don't think this is fair to him. Gout Dick, circle jerk. if any of us brought up Lisa's husband's penis or a body or even him, she would go ballistic on us. So she needs to realize it's not okay for her to do that. Like it's low and it's just gross.

It's inappropriate. Well, do you know or suspect who the leak is when it comes to Robin and Todd's separation? Because obviously that was a big moment for the reunion and it got leaked prior to it getting out. Yeah, I don't know anything, but I'm sure everyone would. went home and told that one friend, oh my God, Bronwyn dropped. I mean, how could you not? You know, I didn't tell anyone outside of, I mean, my husband knows Todd. They go to lunch together. But I didn't tell any friends because I thought, I don't want this to come from me. But it's so easy to go tell that one person. And then once it was online, of course, I was like, oh. What did you make of Lisa's video with John walking down the street being like, we've been married for forever and we're now?

It was like right after the news broke. Like, we're just so in love and happy. Lisa. Lisa is so deliberate. I didn't see that. But, I mean, that is so Lisa, you know. And that's kind of the level that she's playing on. It's just kind of childish.

And it's not nice. You know, somebody that you were once friends with. And Lisa used to love Todd. And John did too. They had a relationship. Marriage is hard. And none of us know what's going to happen tomorrow. Like, we are all just trying to get through life and children and business.

And for her to do that, I think it's completely inappropriate because, you know, she's gone through a rough year in her own marriage. So, like, that's kind of laughing in someone's face. Lisa is a fascinating character. She is. Like, does she have a, sometimes you're like, do you even have a conscience? Like, and then wonders why people think she's a villain and mean? I mean, that is awful. I haven't seen that.

When it comes to Lisa, I will say, I know I've been very critical of Lisa and I've been harsh. I'm after hearing that. She might deserve it. Well, I met me Lisa at BravoCon, and of all the people I know that have maybe been frustrated about something we've said, Lisa was incredibly charming and, you know, said hi to me and she was kind of like, whatever, and no big deal. Do you think Lisa is just more like, hey, it's a TV show, this is work? Because that was almost my read. It's just like, she just, this is all just work. And maybe it's just all bullshit. And she's just performing. Is that why she is able to do and say,

some of this crazy shit that we're all like, how could she do that? You know? No, I think she just says this crazy shit. And I don't think it's worked because if that was any of us that said something about her, we would never hear the end. She was trying to destroy us all season.

But the fact that she did that to John was with John, that video, that was to hurt Bronwyn. And that's the stuff that she does. It's like, that's her saying, I live a different life, I'm better. And that's the Lisa that we don't want to see as friends. Maybe the fans want to see it. But Lisa has a better side than that.

And I wish she'd stop doing that. You're supposed to evolve or mature. And that's just an immature thing to do to me. And I mean, for John to even play along with it, I always think, is John just really nice and kind of lets her get away with this stuff? Like, my husband will call me out when I do something wrong. He's still trying to learn how a parallel park, you know? Yeah, that's true. That's true.

They're both mature. He's still on that one-way street trying to... True. I thought Henry was getting out of that car. I was like, what is going on here? I was... A couple weeks ago, Lisa self-identified herself as, like, the richest person in your cast, which... Again, she does that every year. Seems like, I mean, I don't know.

I doubt you guys know each other's bank accounts, but... Yeah. We are all business owners pretty much in the cast. And so to say that, I mean, it's kind of... It's a pretty strong statement to make. I just... That's where the delusion comes. in to me with her. For her to just say that, she has no idea what anyone has. So for her to say that,

it's again, like, I'm better than all of you because I'm going to make this statement without knowing what's in your bank account. She explained what she does for work. Did you understand that? No. Yeah. No. I didn't. And again, that's why I say she leads with money, she leads with, and then wonders why people don't see her as likable. But I still don't know, I still don't get what she does. And she missed the RV trip because she was with Ben Affleck but then showed a picture of her and Ben Affleck from like 20 years ago. Yeah. I'm like, is she trying to look young by showing an old photo of herself and pretend she's to look like this? Or did she not really have a current photo?

Yes. Brawin, we are big fans of Brawin and I've been a fan of her since she came on the show. Again, just as a fan and Browen, if you're listening, I'm sorry if you disagree. But it seems like the show has gotten to her a little bit. and it seems like just from an outsider's point of view could be way off, she seems like she's reading the comments and she seems to be almost reacting to it. And it was really sad when the news of her and Todd's separation came out

because, you know, when we had an opportunity to interview Browen, you know, she sang his praises both on the show and off the show. We've had a handful of guests who have had the pleasure of having dinner with Browin and Todd. And for whatever people say online, anyone who has met Todd, who we've talked about, has great things to say about Todd

and specifically Todd and Brawin. And so, you know, it was interesting to see fans have all these things and you women and mostly Lisa, like say negative things, but I was always like, I don't know, guys, from the people who have met these people,

I'm not, that's not what I'm hearing, only to then have the separation go public. And I'm just curious, like, what is, I mean, I guess were you shocked to hear about the separation and do you feel like the show is playing a big role and why they've chosen to separate? I hope not.

And I'm not going to lie, that crossed my mind. I mean, Bronwyn's job is the internet. She was a influencer, you know? So she lived for, you know, her engagement with her fans. I thought to myself, I hope she's not reading all these things about Todd. And it's affecting how she feels about him because she was singing his praises.

And then there's that joke that every couple's one argument away from divorce. You know, it's like, I really think that there's been a lot that Bronwyn maybe has not shared, but we see it on camera. We see their dynamics. But part of me feels like there's this really good side of Todd that we are not seeing. You know, we're only seeing the negative side. Yeah, the guy who doesn't want to film. Yes. And who does, like this guy is doing it for her. Yeah. But if you go to dinner with them or he's been to our house, he takes interest in Elektra and her horse riding because his daughter was an equestrian. He's smart. He has some great stories. He told me he wanted to meet my dad and he said, we're going to be buds. I mean, he's just fun and nice and no marriage

is perfect. So I don't want to judge, if she's not happy, I want Bronwyn to live her life authentically and be happy. But I do feel that it's really, you know, been hard for her to watch. And maybe it's more not only reading the comments, but watching it and seeing like, wow, this isn't nice. And then people online backing her and saying he treats you horrible. So I hope, you know, her decision was based on the Todd that she's with at home and he's smart and interesting. And they're both corky in different ways. And they worked for so long. But if she's not happy, you know, you can't expect her to stay in the situation. So that's a tough one because I've seen a different side of Todd that fans have not. Was it kind of hot to watch Whitney and Bronwyn kiss? Oh, it was so funny because

they're definitely the most free-spirited, you know, out of the group. The rest of us are like, I've never kissed a girl, or I've been with my husband for 30 years, you know, so those two are definitely fun. They're the two youngest on the cast. They're very open-minded. And, you know, it was fun and brought some interest to the conversation. If you were in charge of casting, would you bring everyone back next season? I think so. Well, not I think so. Yes. Yeah. I would. You know what? Every single one of us were a piece of the puzzle that just made it whole. Would you keep Brittany friend of or make her? I think Britney is a friend of, you know?

You don't think she deserves a snowflake. Well, it's not that I don't think she deserves one, but I feel like you never know what's going to happen with Jared. Yeah. So it's like, you know, is she valuable staying a friend? And if she was full-time, what more? would she bring because we can't keep hearing about you and Jared. I'd love to hear more about her and her daughters, but full-time, what would she bring that would be different than what she has brought as a friend? Although I will say she brought a lot as a friend of. I mean, she was really edited in there

equally as full-time women. Yeah. So, I mean, hey, is she capable? Yes, of being a full-time housewife, but she still has some work to do. And I think in order for her to be full-time, we need to see more of Brittany, not of Britney and Jared, but of who Britney really is. Some fans have been kind of calling Heather a producer pet. You are obviously very close with Heather. What is your response to that?

Well, I mean, a few years ago, they were calling Lisa the shadow producer, you know? So I don't think anyone really has that power on this cast. I do think that Heather has gotten to a place where she is finally able to be really honest with friends that maybe at one point she wasn't willing to say what she was thinking. If you've watched Heather, she is a very loyal friend and sometimes to a fault, meaning she will be your, I hate to use the word ride or die because that was the word she was using about, they were using about her in past relationships. When I wasn't getting along with Meredith

in the beginning, I said, what do you see in this woman? Like, I can't find anything to like about her. She said Angie, she's amazing. She's hilarious. She contributes so much to the show. I love her. She had so many great things to say. When she is your friend, she is your friend. She is also your friend when you are doing things that are not right, where Mary's going to, like, you know, get upset with you. Heather is your friend through thick and thin. And I think she's finally been able to voice her opinion to people that she felt like she couldn't do that with in the past. So I kind of look at it this season as it seems like she's found her voice and feels like she can say what she's thinking. Where in the past she felt like she had to support people whether they were right or wrong. Now she's kind of calling people out. I love that. So no, I don't agree with that. I think when Heather believes something, she's very passionate about it.

She is 10 toes down and she will not back down. Angie, this has been a blast. Oh my gosh. Thank you guys. It was so fun. Is it over? We've had so much fun. I really enjoyed talking to you guys.

It was an honor for us to have you. Please come back. And, you know, this is our going deeper episodes. But I'm sure we, you know, reality recap, come say hi, pop in. I would love it. Just gab with us. We can talk about housewives. Took me too long to get here.

Took you too long. The important thing is you made it. And we are honored to have you and we appreciate you taking the time. I love your hair. I love your boots, by the way. I've been eyeballing those. And yeah, you guys were a lot of fun. Thank you.

It was actually really positive, and I love your takes on the show. Well, yeah, we love you. Thanks for coming. We love you. Bye, guys. Thanks for listening.