The Viall Files - E1081 - Going Deeper with Rosanna Pansino

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Starting point is 00:00:37 I'm so excited we're doing this. I was just saying we live so close. You're a closer to our old studio. It's such a good neighborhood, you guys. Just a couple blocks over for Halloween. They shut down the whole street. Like they block it off, and it looks like out of a movie,

Starting point is 00:01:06 like a Disney movie. All the houses participate. All the houses decorate. They hire like actors. to be like ghosts. And it is so cute. So if you were, if you, for Halloween, trigger treating with the kids is the cutest effing thing you have ever seen,

Starting point is 00:01:24 like a local really cute place. We, I feel like our first year with our daughter, it was, we were like, where is every, like we like went out on our street and it was like silent. There is nobody out. The doors were all, like, lights were off.

Starting point is 00:01:40 People were like, don't ring our doorbell. We're watching a movie. No. Yeah, I was like, this is kind of sad. Like the first time we get to, like, actually take our daughter trick-or-treating and, like, have fun. See, I feel like we should have met sooner and hung out, and I can tell you all the cute spots. She would love that. Because I'm literally a social butterfly.

Starting point is 00:01:57 That's all I do. You are? Other than just being a YouTuber, I'm a professional social butterfly. God, I wish I could be more like you. It's really fun for me. I love people. So I just always didn't talk to everyone. I feel like I was like that, too, until I moved to L.A.

Starting point is 00:02:12 And then I was like... She married me and I'm not a people person. I'm a cat. Yeah. So then I'm like, if I have to talk to them by myself, I'm definitely a cat. I'm not going to talk to them at all. I'm a dog. So cats and dogs can get along.

Starting point is 00:02:28 Yeah, yeah. It is possible. And sometimes cats want to be like dogs. Right, right, right. Right. I wish I could control myself and be more like a cat, but I'm just so... What is Mike? He is a social introvert.

Starting point is 00:02:44 Okay. I would say Mike's just like a super smart tech nerd. Like he built his first computer from scratch when he was 10. Like he would get all the parts from fries and like build his own motherboard. And like that was his first gift to me actually when we were dating is he built me a high powered rig from scratch. Because he was like, your shit is so slow. I can't stand this. Like so he built me a high powered rig.

Starting point is 00:03:09 So we could like edit and process. like it so fast. If I try to put something from my key together, she will call it a task rabbit. Yeah, I'm like, we have curtains to hang. I'm like, I'll just, don't worry about it. I'll just, you don't need to hang the curtains. Mike's like a handyman and tech nerd. But he really literally could play video games by himself in his office for life.

Starting point is 00:03:31 Like during COVID, he had no problems. During COVID, he was calm, cool, collected, mentally stable. I was living my best life. And then I was like, I'm, this is. getting problematic for me. That is exactly. Mike was like so chill the entire time

Starting point is 00:03:45 and I was like Michael we gotta get out. Talk to me. And that's when I learned like wait I might be way more social than him because I definitely was having like the huge cabin fever. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:59 Like I will talk to a dog. Like I was talking to our dogs. I was like how is your day going sweetheart? Oh, you look fabulous. Like we haven't. also left a house. We're also really bored. I was like, I need to get out.

Starting point is 00:04:16 This is embarrassing. Yeah. And here we are. And here we are. You made it. Welcome. Thanks for having me, you guys. We're very excited to have you. I'm so excited.

Starting point is 00:04:25 I'm so excited. I've seen this green wall. You have? Yeah, like forever. I've been watching so many of your interviews. I love Jojo. Oh, we love Joe. She's just one of my absolute favorite.

Starting point is 00:04:37 She's the best. When she came on, I just, I watched every, every second because I love to support her and just, that's, I think, actually, how I learned about your guys' podcast. Yeah, I'm such in, like, a little baking bubble. I'm extremely social. I go out and meet friends, but it's like, that's the bubble. I don't really go outside of that. It's like, whatever I run into is the bubble.

Starting point is 00:04:59 Well, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, we, I'm very fastened to have this conversation with you and get to know you a little bit better. There are so many people in this office who are. huge fans of you who described to have a parisocial relationship with you. That they're trying to reel in. Raised by you. And it's really fascinating. I am someone, I'm 45 years old.

Starting point is 00:05:22 So I was a child before YouTube. Yeah. And so when YouTube kind of came out, I was not one of those people, unlike my wife, who has, like, I was raised by YouTube in a way. or they follow a lot of different creators. And it's really been a fascinating thing to watch, especially for me when I kind of came up in the public eye, you're someone who's one of the biggest creators on YouTube,

Starting point is 00:05:52 millions and millions of followers. And at the same time, it almost feels like it's, for a long time, YouTube was like its own kind of universe. And then there was like this kind of mainstream universe, and now these worlds are really starting to, to collide in a massive way. And it's really just fascinating. And yeah, I'm just really have so many questions for you. I love it. I have dreamed of this day for decades. I have been telling my agents for decades that this was going to happen. And with my first agency,

Starting point is 00:06:24 when I first moved to California from Seattle, I went to college in Seattle, grew up in Seattle, and then moved here for entertainment work. And I was telling my first agency, who I won't name, because I don't want to throw them shade, but I will be honest and say that they gave me an ultimatum. And they said, like, if you don't stop making YouTube videos, we're going to drop you as a client because it was when new media was emerging. And there was this tension between traditional media and new media. And I think they were kind of scared of each other.

Starting point is 00:06:54 And they didn't know what this meant for the future. So there was like hard lines being drawn. And I was given an ultimatum at my agency. And I was just so terrified because these were the only people. people that believed in me in entertainment other than Mike. Like these, that was my agent. Like, that was my person who was like cheering me on was like, you got this. And when they gave me the ultimatum, it just felt like a punch in the stomach. And I begged with them. I was like, please see the value in YouTube and new media because the only Sony commercial I booked that year was

Starting point is 00:07:28 because of my YouTube channel. So like your first taste of that you felt like the success you had. And you finally felt like you found your thing, which I think anyone in this space and entertainment can relate to. Like when I got off The Bachelor, I go on dancing with the stars. And then you're just kind of like, what do I do next? You know, and there's no one, people aren't really knocking on your door. You have opportunities and things like that. You're just like, I don't know what to do next. And you really find your thing.

Starting point is 00:07:57 We joke all the time when I met Natalie. Yeah. I asked her to like film me making roller skating. videos, which is really embarrassing when I look at it now. Probably more embarrassing for her. Like, like, shooting the duck? Like, you're doing little tricks? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:13 In Venice. Yeah. When we met, I lived in Venice and roller skating, like many things during COVID, yeah, would, like, pop up. And I grew up roller skating and I had roller skates. And so I busted them out. And I was, like, shockingly good at it. Like, most people didn't imagine this, like, middle-aged white guy would,

Starting point is 00:08:34 be pretty good on roller skiers. It was like a nice little bit. And but I remember when I started when I, when I started this show before I met Natalie. And up into that point, it was a lot of like, you know, again, roller skinning videos. I was doing shirtless Bob Ross paintings. I was just cooking videos. Just like trying to find my thing. And then I found my thing and I couldn't tell you just the weight that like just it was like,

Starting point is 00:09:03 I finally found the thing. It's like, I have a job. You know, I quit my real job. I was selling software. I took this risk. I would go to bed at night being like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah. You know, I can't do this forever.

Starting point is 00:09:18 This being like the occasional appearance, the random like, you know, social media and campaign that was good money, but it was like, what a fucking gig to gig to gig. There's no home base. So here you are very similar. You found your thing. And then like you said, the people who. who you count on, you rely on who know this world, where being like you got to quit.

Starting point is 00:09:39 Yeah, it was rough. I just begged with them. I was like, please see it as a tool. Like, this is a great thing. I think there's synergy. Like, I think this is going to come together in the future. And they just didn't have that foresight. So two weeks later, I got a letter,

Starting point is 00:09:54 typed a letter in the mail dumping me from our agency. Yeah. Do you feel like, had they not given you that ultimatum, your life would be very different? I do. Or do you feel like you always would have found your way there? Because I was working in the traditional space. Like the first two years that I moved here, I was a union dancer, an actress, just a

Starting point is 00:10:18 cheerio cheerleader, very small role on Glee. I worked on the show for two seasons. But I was there with crew. I was there Monday through Friday. I was grinding. I worked on the show so much, like I, you know, I qualified for all the medical benefits the SAG actors qualify. It wasn't like a glamorous role, but like I was a full-time working actress.

Starting point is 00:10:41 Like I wasn't also waiting tables. Like this was my full-time gig. And I was learning a lot. I'm glad I stepped back from Glee. There was a lot of stuff that happened there that hopefully eventually I'll be able to talk about. But I think right now I'm just like not ready yet. I just started working with a trauma therapist, a therapist who specializes in trauma.

Starting point is 00:11:01 I'm like, oh my God, like five months ago, six months ago. Mike, how many months has been? But it's been great. I went through it. Yeah, like four months. Yeah, I'm feeling more stronger and more comfortable. Was there something specific that happened again, only at your comfort level that made you go, I need this type of therapy?

Starting point is 00:11:19 Yeah, there was a huge shift. Just over the years in entertainment, basically a couple me-to things happened to me that I've just been holding on to for a really long time because I'm Italian. in Irish. And on my dad's side, I'm such my dad's daughter. If there's ever issues, we would just have a shot of whiskey and just shove those feelings down. That's how we deal with things. And so I've been doing that for, you know, over two decades. And it turns out that trauma tank gets full. It turns out there is a limit. Like everyone has that breaking point. And I think I hit mine a couple years ago. And I just really, I don't know, part of it, it's like getting older, but it's just like, I just don't have

Starting point is 00:12:06 the tolerance for as much bullshit anymore. Yeah. I'm old. I don't have time for the nonsense. I'm just, and it's also feeling more comfortable to deal with stuff that happened when I was young and so many more years ago that I didn't know how to process. And it, I went through EMDR trauma therapy. That's what we're going to try. It's incredible. And it is, yeah, it is worth every ounce of your time and money. It is, it is truly, yeah, I recommend it to anyone who has been through any type of drama. It is truly a miracle. Save me. Yeah. It's, it's really been helping so far. And I've never been in therapy before ever. And I'm so glad that I decided to do it because it's, it's helping me process. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It will. It will. It will. It's what it did

Starting point is 00:12:55 for me too. I had never been in any sort of therapy either. I had like, I had one session with a therapist and it was awful. And I was like, I will never do that again. And Nick encouraged me. He was like, I think maybe you should try this. Let me know. And she recommended the EMDR and it is truly life changing. So if you're in that, you're in good hand. I'm so excited. I can't wait. I feel like I'm going to be a new woman. I feel like it's going to help a lot. I feel like I'm pretty resilient with things. But, But it definitely had to get dealt with at some point. Yeah. Yeah. Well, good for you for being able to tackle that. Thank you. It can be very intimidating. Yeah, I think it's a really good thing.

Starting point is 00:13:37 I left Glee. I left after season two. They asked me to come back for season three, and that's when I stepped away and started YouTube, kind of dived in full time to YouTube. And if I hadn't got that ultimatum, I don't know if I would have made that decision. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:51 Just because I loved making YouTube videos so much. was hardly making any money at it, but I knew that it was possible because it just started to monetize then. And I was like, I know this is possible and I don't want to give it up. And I really see this as being a wave of distribution in the future. Like I see that. So I'm glad that I kind of followed those. What was that initial feeling that you felt when you got that letter? I mean, oh my God. And I guess I'm more curious about how you bounced back because it can be, I feel like most people, and I think I'm resilient and all that fun stuff, but like, usually there's that panic of like, oh my God, no, no, I'm so sorry. Like, did you, did you think of calling them up? You were pretty

Starting point is 00:14:36 committed? No, I did try to set up a few lunch dates just to talk. Sure. I think I'm pretty level-headed in that way. I really like long-term relationships. Like Mike and I have been together for over 10 years, I think like, like Mike, 15 years, something like that. Yeah. My new agents, we've been together for over 13 years or something. It's just like kind of who I am. So with those relationships, whether they're business or professional, I really do make an effort to like resolve things. I think that that's just where I don't like to cut things off because of a flub or like a

Starting point is 00:15:11 disagreement or I just I don't see the benefit in that. So I really, I fought for it. Yeah. By reaching out and trying to and they could not see the light. So I was like, I had a shot of whiskey. That's how I dealt with it. I was like, fuck it.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Have a shot of whiskey. And there's this great quote by, it's the four-star general mad dog, Jim. He, my dad grew up with him. My dad was born in Kansas and he was in Eagle Scouts with him. And he has this great quote. And I remind myself of it all the time. It's so funny because I'm dyslexic. And I literally, I keep it on my phone because it helps me any time.

Starting point is 00:15:54 I literally have to keep it here. His quote is, Marines don't know how to spell the word defeat. I was like, Marines don't and I don't because I'm dyslexic, but also you just never give up. So even when you hit the worst roadblocks, like I just,

Starting point is 00:16:10 I'm like, nope, just keep going. Well, here you are now. I don't know how many years later, you are one of the top earners on YouTube. You were recognized by Forbes as, was it one of the top or the top earner on YouTube? Yeah, highest paid, yeah. You recently got announced that you have a new deal with Fox.

Starting point is 00:16:29 Yes. Part of, can you give us a little insight of what that is? I know Gordon Ramsey's involved. Yeah, he built a huge brand with them, like an entire basically internal food network of food shows. And I aspire to do the same thing. I really love making things. I love creating things. I love producing things.

Starting point is 00:16:50 I think I learned that I love that, not just from YouTube, but I got some more. opportunities along the way to host a few food network shows and be an executive producer of an HBO show that aired and it just performed well. So I got, I think I got the itch where I like to produce. And I think something I like about it a lot is I get to feature other people's talent. And as I'm getting older, that's something I enjoy almost more than showing my own. I think that that's something I'm leaning into. And it's just so. Was there anyone that gave that to you when you were coming up? Susan, the former CEO of YouTube.

Starting point is 00:17:31 Oh, wow. She was, I admired her so much. She was like a mentor to me. And it was so random. And I don't know why she picked me out of obscurity. I was just making my little baking channel. It was performing well doing its thing. I didn't know one soul at YouTube.

Starting point is 00:17:48 I didn't know anybody from their team. I didn't know anything. And I literally got an email and they're like, hey, we need a meeting in person. Can't talk over email of the phone. Come on in in person. And I was freaking out. I was like telling Mike, I was like, am I getting fired? Can they do it?

Starting point is 00:18:06 Can you? Like what? What is happening? I was so scared. And we went in and they asked if I'd like to be a part of this project that they were launching, um, project beacon where they took three creators. I was the, in the first round with. Michelle Fawn and Bethany Moda, where they basically put so much money into us advertisement dollar-wise.

Starting point is 00:18:29 And basically, they really wanted to feature creators on YouTube to show that YouTube wasn't just silly cat videos, that they're like makeup gurus. There are the next Rachel Ray's here. They're the next fashionistas here. There's so much talent here. It's not just silly little random video hosting site. It's really evolved into an entertainment platform. And so I took months of my life. We went on tour, basically. We went to New York. We went like, talked to journalists and educated them about YouTube.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And it just changed my life. Susan changed my life. She brought me to the table. Like, she gave me a seat at the table. She let my voice be heard. She included me in things I would have never been in the room for. And she was like my light. running a company that size is not easy.

Starting point is 00:19:23 Like there's always going to be issues. Nothing's going to be perfect. But she was really a person who balanced ethics and values and morals of business. And I just, I respected her for it so much. Like she cares about the numbers. They're important. They matter. But she also cared about people.

Starting point is 00:19:40 People, yeah. She loved people. She loved the creators. She really fought for them. She swang. And I just, I miss that feeling all the. time, especially with the new leadership, like, I just miss it. Is there a trait or characteristic that you feel like she instilled in you that you, like, see in yourself today? I think a lot of love.

Starting point is 00:20:03 She was truly a light, and that's something that she called me a lighthouse. I was her lighthouse that I called her my light. And it was really weird, I think, about five or six years ago when I lost my dad, because I feel like the lighthouse lost the light. I think that that was the weirdest part of my career was when I just was grieving so much and struggling with brief so much and then still continuing to move forward and press on and it was just like too much. Like that was where I was kind of on autopilot. Like I'm still making content. We didn't miss a video upload in 13 years, but it's just like my heart is not there because it is breaking into a thousand pieces. Like that's kind of, I think that's something that I reflect on now. And I don't think there's anything I could

Starting point is 00:20:54 have done different. Grief is a monster, all of its own that you cannot control. It does its own thing in its own time. And I don't regret anything. But now it's just very different. Like, that heavy feeling has lifted. And now I'm starting to enjoy the memories with my dad more. And it just feels like I'm in a different place. And the channel, starting to reflect that just kind of organically and naturally. Like it's, I think we had our best year in like probably five years, just this last year. Like, it's coming back. Passion's coming back.

Starting point is 00:21:30 Joy and happiness. I feel like the light is back in the lighthouse. Like, I think Susan would have been really happy. I think she would have been really proud. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:41 I mean, just having you talk a little bit, I've so many more questions. I'm also dyslexic, by the way. So, uh, safe space. I can't spell. And in my brain, I like, have all these like, how do I want to tackle this conversation? Um, but hearing you talk about the beginning of your career, you really were there in the beginning, you know,

Starting point is 00:22:04 and just hearing you talk about your new leadership. It, it's a, it's kind of a very, like a tails all the time, is time with a company where it kind of that startup mentality. I know, I'm sure, you know, YouTube was still relatively large. by back then, but compared to what it is now owned by Google, this kind of behemoth of a company. And no matter what company you're at, the large you get, the less personal it becomes, you know. And so you really have such an interesting perspective of this world now, that YouTube, it really feels like it's taking over entertainment, you know, and things like that.

Starting point is 00:22:41 And so, yeah, you have, I'm just so fascinated by your perspective on so many things. I guess starting with, I think one thing you're seeing, we're young parents, right? And so we have our daughter now. So a lot of our things we look at us through that lens, you know, of what's the world going to be like for our daughter? And I'm sure you've seen this, but like you ask young kids today, what do they want to be when they grow up? And YouTubers is number one.

Starting point is 00:23:11 And I'm just curious, like, what your perspective is on that. obviously this world has changed your life and opened up so many beautiful doors. But as I'm sure you know, that that experience isn't the same for everyone who tries. And for one of you, there are millions of people who just, you know, maybe had some fun, but it didn't have the level of success that you have. And obviously, there's been a lot of other creators in this space who have come and gone, been wrapped up in controversy. there are some very dark stories about how the world having access to your life has affected you.

Starting point is 00:23:50 And I'm just curious, like, how you have reflected on your career. And when you see, you know, that kids want to be YouTube stars, I'm sure there's a sense of pride that you feel. But also, is there any part of reluctance of like, well, I don't know if, you know, what would you tell your younger self? Or if you have a friend, like, we become friends and you're like, oh, River wants to be a YouTube star. What would you say to her, you know? Oh, my gosh. That's deep. Okay.

Starting point is 00:24:15 Yeah, I feel like YouTube didn't even exist when I was in high school, right? So it's not like growing up, I can really understand how kids feel these days of like it even being like a desired field. And even when YouTube started, it didn't even monetize. Like the people that I knew who were creating content on YouTube just loved it because it was a free video hosting site. And they were just doing it for fun, like as a creative outlet to just get their creativity. out there. And just being a free video hosting site is crazy valuable all in itself. Like, that's amazing. But I can nerd out on that all day. But now it is so different. And I really can't imagine what kids feel like and why. And I think it's so different. Like growing up, I would watch

Starting point is 00:25:03 television and movies. And I always wanted to be a part of creating things like artistically like that. or I'd hear music on the radio and I didn't know what I wanted to do in entertainment, but I knew I'm so creative. I just wanted to make stuff. Like whether I'm making TV shows or I'm making cookbooks or I'm developing recipes, I just want to create stuff. So the entertainment space is the perfect place for that. And it seems like YouTube is a place.

Starting point is 00:25:32 So I could see for young kids, no matter what their interest is, if they're a creative type, this is a great space because there's so many possibilities. There's podcasts. There's live streamers. There's gamers. There's crafters. I was watching a channel where they like whittle ice. They're ice whittlers. They like carve ice. This is their job and their whole channels about that. And that's their business. I mean, they're like ice sculptorists. But then they also make content on it. And I'm like like craftsmanship. It's all the creative types under one house. So it's such a weird kind of place. Because I think it depends on. on the kid, like, what do they want? Do they want fame just for fame, just clout chasing? Do they want to be a

Starting point is 00:26:16 baker? Do they want to have meaningful conversations and host like a great podcast? Like, what do they want out of entertainment and creativity? And that's what I would tell kids, especially I have little nephews who are growing up if they ever want to get an entertainment. Like, what are their interests? What are their passions and to lean into those? Because I think that's where then when you flourish. And then I think it also helps you not get caught up in all of the other stuff. Because there's a lot of other stuff now here that just like didn't exist when I started on YouTube because everyone who started on YouTube were just like creative nerds. They really were not in it for fame or money because those things weren't possible. Well, that makes a lot of sense because it's basically what you're saying

Starting point is 00:27:00 for the people who say, oh, I want to be a YouTube star. There's almost like a follow-up question in terms of like what do you want to do to become the star? Like YouTube's just the platform that you put your art on or whatever you're inspired by that you want to do as opposed to just saying, well, I want to, like, I want to be on TV. Right. You know, like, do you want to host? Do you want to act? Do you want to be a journalist? You know, whatever it is. Try it all. That's also great advice. Try everything. That's what I did in college. I tried so many weird jobs. I've taken so many oddball jobs over the years. That's my biggest advice to kids too is like just, not even kids, just students. If you're in college, try everything. And,

Starting point is 00:27:39 see what you love, see what you don't, because you might surprise yourself. Like, I went to nursing school when I was in college. I started the nursing program, and I loved it. I loved all of it. I just could not complete some of the labs as quick as I should have, and that doesn't do a benefit to anybody. So I learned kind of right away that that wasn't a great fit for me, but I just tried everything. Because if you try an explorer, you might think you would love doing something, but you don't. At what point in your YouTube career were you like, oh my God, I think this is actually becoming something. I think it's like a thing. It was when the community basically gave me this huge response. Like I was uploading vlogs just to get more comfortable on camera

Starting point is 00:28:24 and they were pretty boring. And then I uploaded a geeky baking video. We were preparing for friends. We have a bunch of gamer friends who were coming over for like E3 and we were throwing like a pre-E3 barbecue at her house. And I thought, well, let's just film making this cake. So I did. And then the community was like, this is amazing. No geeky baking show exists online or on television. Like, we need more of this. And I was like, okay, you guys, what do you want to see next week? Because that was about as quickly as I could edit. It took me a week to edit a video. And it was terrible. I was using Comic Sans font, the whole thing. It was awful. Don't watch my first videos. They're actually awful. But I would try to do that. And every week they'd be like, we want to see like a high

Starting point is 00:29:04 real shield from Zelda. We want to see this. So I would just every week try to, you know, make new things. And then it turned into a geeky baking show, the first geeky baking show. And it was amazing. I am so blessed and grateful for the eight years that it ran. And literally during that time, the algorithm also supported educational contact, tutorial based content. So that was when it just flourished. And then when the algorithm changed, because it's always growing in lines of code, it has billions and billions of lines of code. Now, it's a much more complicated algorithm. So I tell people it's not just making content you're passionate about, but you also have to be feeding the algorithm, meaning you have to hit certain metrics at certain points. Like,

Starting point is 00:29:50 there's certain metrics the algorithm looks for, like right when you upload within like the first, you know, seven seconds, 10 seconds, it has to hit certain metrics. If it doesn't hit, hit those metrics. The video won't even be shot out to your own community and following. So that's where I had to learn, hey, it's about what you love and passion, but also about the numbers. So that's that balance that I would say content creators need to do nowadays that you didn't have to do in the beginning. Because in the beginning, I call Al the algorithm. It was just a baby. It was like four lines of code, little boo-boo. You know, like it was just Al's just a little baby. Sleep and poop.

Starting point is 00:30:27 Yeah. All of the little. You guys know kids. So it's just like little Al is just this little baby. And so if your channel got popular, it was because the people chose you. You were chosen by the people. People would share your videos. People would share with their friends.

Starting point is 00:30:41 They would naturally organically share it. And you were organically popular. Like the People's Choice Awards. That's what it used to be like. Now that Al is a full fucking adult. Al is billions and billions of lines with it. Al is its own person. and that's why I call him Al, because Al has likes and dislikes.

Starting point is 00:30:59 Al has likes for your video and dislikes for your video. Al likes a certain thumbnail over another thumbnail. Al has opinions. This must have been, how did you learn all of that? Was it like a bunch of trial and error? Or was Susan there to help? You know, like how? That must have just been.

Starting point is 00:31:16 Everything. All of it. It was everything. So I will say that having access to having a seat at the table, I got to talk to top executives at YouTube and even. the programmer who writes Al. He basically is the creator of Al, Al's dad,

Starting point is 00:31:31 got to sit down and have a dinner with him and ask him all the questions and his daughter, who's lovely, love her. We had a fabulous dinner. It's that and a lot of trial in our air, like a lot of testing. Kind of like I test recipes. I'll test a recipe like 16 times,

Starting point is 00:31:46 add a little bit more sugar. Okay, no, a little bit more butter. Okay, no, no. It's just like that. It's just being a nerd and testing and playing and seeing what is. performing better. What isn't? What's working? What isn't? And then why? And just what I love about YouTube is on the back end. They provide so much analytics, which other platforms don't. And I love

Starting point is 00:32:06 that they give us access because for the super nerds who you want to like function differently, you can. You dive into those analytics and you can figure it out. It's amazing. But yeah, it's kind of holistic. It's us testing it and also having the ability to talk to some of the big exact The biggest thing is they keep a lot of things close to the chest. There's some things that they can't say. But what they have said is now Al is a monster all of his own. We're all scared about. Yeah.

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Starting point is 00:35:47 I graduated from PLU, Pacific Lutheran. University with a degree in communication, emphasis in journalism, and then a minor in business. But growing up, just my whole life, been baking. It's been a hobby, my whole life. My grandma baked. She's a dual citizen. My mom is a dual citizen in U.S. and Italy. And they're just little Italian bakers.

Starting point is 00:36:07 This is just how we, this is how we communicate. This is what we do. And I feel like cooking kind of to your point, you know, I love to cook, right? I mean, I'm not a baker. I love to cook. certainly have no, like, education degree in it. I do feel like cooking's kind of been accepted in the sense that, like, your grandma has her, like, homemade cookie recipe, and she comes from a level of expertise.

Starting point is 00:36:29 But the reason I ask that is because I'm curious what your experience was like. Coming from the reality TV space and kind of trying out entertainment, I always say I have this line, whereas I learned that early on, being on this, getting this platform gave me incredible access and zero credibility. Got you. And so I've babysies spent my whole career trying to build up credibility. Now, like on this show, for example, one of our segments is ask Nick. I offer relationship advice from like my mistakes and perspective.

Starting point is 00:37:00 I'm always like, I'm not a therapist. You know, but I can tell you what I think, you know, talk to your therapist, talk to your, you know, but like I'll give you my opinion. And even to this day, there are people who are just like, you're not an expert, you know, you don't know what you're talking about. you don't have the credibility that we think is required of you for us to see you as like a thought leader in this space. And I'm just curious as early in YouTube, did you ever experience pushback from your audience or maybe other bakers or cookers who people who maybe had that education? I find that to be common in my space where it's just like if anyone's gone to school. Yeah. And like studied mental.

Starting point is 00:37:46 It's just like I'm not allowed to have an opinion because like I didn't have a certain type of background. And I'm curious if you dealt with that. And then how did you deal with that with your audience? I was on a panel. I won't say where it was a food panel. And it was a bunch of fancy pansy chefs who all went to official culinary school. And I was self-top home baker. And yeah, they were kind of giving me a hard time about it.

Starting point is 00:38:14 So what I did is I hired a full-time food producer, full-time, who worked with me for over six years. And she used to teach at Cologne Blue. So she taught me everything. And the good news is, is everything my grandma taught me, my Nona, my mama Mia, was correct. They just didn't teach me the science of why it was correct. An example of this is like making ganache. My grandma and my mom would tell me, put the cream on the stove in a sauce, bring it to a scald. A scald is like when the little bubbles form all the way around the edge,

Starting point is 00:38:49 not a boil. The boil is when all the bubbles are in the middle. That's too hot. You've ruined it. It's too hot. But just till a scald, when the bubbles go all the way around, remove from the heat, then you pour it over the chocolate, fully submerge you, let it sit for like a minute, and then mix it up. And then let it cool at room temperature. That's a ganache. And I didn't realize that that is correct. That is absolutely, that's cold on blue. That is. That is. is a quote on blue fancy baking training, but my grandma just didn't know the word for it is that process is called emulsification. Like she just didn't understand the science of it, but everything she taught me was what they're teaching at the fancy bakery, like culinary schools. But after

Starting point is 00:39:32 hiring that producer, now I have the vocabulary and I understand the training. So I kind of like created my own course at home. And do you think that helped you, more just having the confidence that if you were to meet that kind of snobby, very highly educated person. Yeah. So yeah, it helped you more, rather than credibility with your audience, because they already were loving what you were doing. Yeah, I think my audience already loved what I was doing and also fellow bakers. And that's what mattered to me the most is other women and men who are running bakeries who are baking every day. They loved my recipes because my grandma knew what she was doing. Okay. She's done good. But it was.

Starting point is 00:40:14 was really interesting because it was just a few kind of snotty. Like I already forgot what the, I don't want to say like, a multiplication. They were kind of elitist, you know? They were really into, but now I feel very comfortable because. It sounds like something like a mansplaining opportunity to be like,

Starting point is 00:40:30 well, that's a multiplication. Yeah. Like so it's boiling. Like, is it ready? I don't know. Like.

Starting point is 00:40:38 Yeah. So I felt that just a little like on that panel, but otherwise everybody, especially baker, fellow bakers are like, you know your shit. And I'm always, I'm honestly learning new things from them and techniques because food is evolving like so quickly. Like even new flowers are coming out all the time. Like Trader Joe's released this article a couple years ago, but they were like releasing over 10 new flowers, like banana flour. Because you know, they have rice flour. Yeah. Coconut flour.

Starting point is 00:41:05 And I'm like experimenting baking with all of them. But like food is really, it's getting fun. Did you have any, like, nightmare recipes or anything that happened on your channel where you were like, oh, my God. I will never see the light of day because I literally threw it. You don't have like, have you ever thought of a point of together like a blooper episode? I have put together a few bloopers where it's mostly dyslexic moments where I can't talk and I'm like having like flubs in my head. But it, yeah, there are a few episodes that we just threw away because it was the first time I was working with chocolate. So I'm a baker, but not like, I don't even know what you call it. A chocolat expert, like a chocolatier, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:41:46 And it is tricky. It's very finicky with temperature. It's extremely, and I was trying to add these fatty flakes to, like, thin it a little bit. I went, it turned into, like, globby. I got so frustrated. That episode didn't see the light of day. And then I was making a Sonic, the Hedgehog cake, where I was making each little checker. out of fondet and I was sticking it on the cake and I was up till four in the morning and I'm literally

Starting point is 00:42:15 and it was a teared cake and I'm and I was so tired I bumped into the table and knocked it on the floor and I just went. No. Fuck it. And I just went to the bathroom and sobbed my little eyes out and I usually I'm so like a neat freak. I got clean up everything right away. I left it. I was like I can't do with it in the morning. I just can't. We have never recreated that cake and I never will. When you're not making YouTube videos in food for the audience, what is your favorite thing to make for yourself and what's your favorite thing to make of your partner? He loves Italian food, so he's really easy. I like to make pastas from scratch. We do pizzas. He's really, really easy in that sense. He has a pretty simple palate. But he actually makes a really good beef bagogi. And he, he feels.

Starting point is 00:43:07 salons salmon really well. Like I love a pan-seared salmon too. He does that really well. Is there anything you can't cook or feel like you can't cook well or you're like, eh? That's not like the hedgehog cake. That's not like the hedge on cake. That's very specific. Yeah, more happening again. No, I really love food. I like to tackle different projects. I'm so curious. I have ADHD too, so I just like new things. It gets me really excited. And I, I think I get excited about challenges versus get intimidated by them. Even if they're disasters and they fail, other than the Sonic the Hedgehog thing, that was a labor of love gone wrong.

Starting point is 00:43:48 But everything else has been really, like, fun. Yeah, I basically, I just, I wish I had more time to cook, honestly. Like, we're so busy that some days we just, well, Uber eats or actually. Do you have a door to ask? Yeah. My mom loves with me. My mom is Italian. So, like, she cooks dinner every night.

Starting point is 00:44:08 Oh, really? She demands that she's doing that no matter what. So sometimes I just eat what she's made because she's not going to stop. It's like her love language. Yeah, you try stopping an Italian woman. It's not going to happen. It's just you've got to get out of the way. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:24 And. Eat it or don't. Yeah. So most of the time, I actually, we, my mom is still cooking for us, which is so sweet. I used to cook for my. I want to cook with some of my stuff. You should. You should.

Starting point is 00:44:38 You should. Yes. We should cook. We have so much fun. We always have like, do you eat steak? Yes. Well, I'm curious. Before she says that, there's, I'm sure you go out to restaurants.

Starting point is 00:44:49 Yes. Is there something that you love to cook and the people you cook for love it so much? And then you order that at a restaurant. You're like, this is not mine. Hmm. No, oh my gosh. Every time I go out, I feel so spoiled by showing. chef to have chef make me something that I'm not having to make. I feel so like, I feel so

Starting point is 00:45:12 amazing. I'm like, this is great. I appreciate every bite. No, I feel amazing and spoiled every time we go out. Though Nick makes such an incredible steak that we'll go to a steakhouse or wherever we're at and order a steak and we'll be like, here's this better. She's bigger than I am. She makes me feel, I will enjoy a steak. at a restaurant and she'll be like it's not yours. We need to hang out. You need to make steak and I can make like handmade pastas or whatever. I would very much like to learn how to make homemade pasta.

Starting point is 00:45:46 Oh, it's so fun. It's so easy. We'll have a homemade pizza night and I'll get all the, like I'll make homemade, I'll make the sauce. Yeah. And then we'll get the ingredients. But I usually just will get like the dough at a whole foods or an Italian grocery store or something. Yeah, that's fine. There's another wrong with that.

Starting point is 00:46:00 No, but I would like to be able to say, I made the pizza. Yeah. The whole thing. Yeah. Making the dough doesn't take that much longer. There are some recipes that are pretty quick. Yeah. There are some recipes that are quicker.

Starting point is 00:46:13 There's a range. Yeah. There's like fast and then quick. I literally could talk about food forever. We were at a ladies night one time with my girlfriend. And she was like, have you ever been to this office building? And I was like, yeah, it's right by that one restaurant. And they got this on their menu.

Starting point is 00:46:32 And she's like, you're so crazy. because you remember where things are based on food. Yeah. Like, I remember where places are in L.A. based on where the food is around it. That's kind of my land. You have some great recommendations that will also need to pick your brain on.

Starting point is 00:46:47 Yes. Oh, my gosh. Have you been to Boccurie? Is that the little place? So the outdoor, it's like a cute little garden, outdoor alleyway. Yes. And they have the two bars, the two buildings. And then there's the house.

Starting point is 00:46:58 Right next to her old studio? Yes. And they do like tapas. A bartender there is phenomenal. The strawberry. Fizz, the Baccarita, which is a mom, it's a, oh, we'd have to do a mommy one. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 00:47:10 Okay. But, oh, their salmon is bombed too. Okay. It is really good. Yeah, we don't. You might like their, oh, well, it might not be as good as yours. Well, I mean, again, I think it's just, you can compare it. I just, I just, I don't want anyone to be thinking, and I think I make the best steak ever.

Starting point is 00:47:30 I just, we like our steak. You should use you a good book. I know. how to cook like seven things really well. Okay. You got seven recipes locked down. We need a few more. I did figure out how to make sesame chicken.

Starting point is 00:47:42 Right on. And I made it in the dark because we had no power. What? How did you do in the dark? Like on a fire pit? I went to Home Depot and got one of those like flashlights you wearing your head. And we have a gas stove. So the gas is working.

Starting point is 00:47:56 Yes. And you made it work. And it worked. Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. It was wild. That is amazing.

Starting point is 00:48:04 It was wild. How many videos have you posted in total on your YouTube channel? I have no idea. I actually, Mike would know. Mike, do you know? Well, with shorts, it kind of messes it up now. Okay, well, Mike's a nerd. So he's calculating the shorts as well.

Starting point is 00:48:20 I don't know when we haven't missed it up on 13 years. It's like I've just posted. It usually is one a week. Sometimes it's two weeks, sometimes three a week. But it's always at least one a week for, I don't know if we're on year 15. 16. Gosh, I can't even remember, but it's like some of my friends, because my friends in real life are YouTubers. And so it's just crazy how long we've known each other. Like Justine, I was just thinking about the other day. And I'm like, we've been friends for like 15 years. We were just texting each other the other day. And I was, I was just blown away by that. Like it's, I mean, was that a commitment you made to yourself in the beginning? Like, if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to slack or half ass it. Like, I'm going to. Or.

Starting point is 00:49:04 Or has this been every single week, even when you don't want to do it, you're like, you better put an episode. Oh, yeah. I told my audience, they're getting an episode. Okay, we have filmed when I've had the flu. Wow. We filmed when I lost my dad. We filmed through anything, like hell or high water. It's coming.

Starting point is 00:49:28 That's just another thing my dad instilled in me. My dad worked on a bunch of military contracts, had a bunch of. military friends. My grandfather was a Marine. And they're just very badass. They're very tough. There's a lot of grit. And that's something that I take with me into business deals, into entertainment, just everything. I just take that because I think it really helps. It creates stability, steadfastness, and an unshakability, even when everything else is, going to shit like COVID. Like I'm literally, I was like watching the news.

Starting point is 00:50:08 I'm like, okay, Mike, we're all going to die. I was right when COVID came out. I was freaking out. I was like, I could just see it over the globe. They had that global map of it like it's spreading. And I was like, here's the apocalypse. Zombie apocalypse. It's happening.

Starting point is 00:50:22 And I was like, and we're going to teach you guys how to make some sourdough bread at home. Okay, so the first step you're going to need to activate that yeast. So I'm like literally just like. You know, wash your hands. Yeah. In the apocalypse, we might need to know how to make our own bread. We might be a thing we need to know. So I'm just trying to.

Starting point is 00:50:45 Were your episodes themed in like survival a little bit almost? We should have been. Literally, I was so out of it then that like it feels like a blur. I remember I was in the hot tub at our house. I had an edible and I ordered a pizza and was drinking champagne. like, well, I might die next week, so let's just live it up. And Mike's like, this is ridiculous. Like, we're going to get through this. It's going to be okay. I was like, absolutely, Mike, we are. But just in case, I'm going to enjoy every second of my life. So when you're not making

Starting point is 00:51:19 YouTube videos or panicking about the end of the world, how do you have a healthy work life balance? I am so social. It's hard for me to sometimes not be sort of. I put social first. I love people. So I am always at my friends, birthday parties, weddings, events. I just love to go to everything. Like social butterfly, unintentional socialite. I just need to socialize.

Starting point is 00:51:48 And then I have three bulldogs. So I always love to play with them, go on walks with them, take them on hikes. I'm really close with my mom because we live together. So we do like ladies nights. And even with my girlfriends, I organize like girls' trips. will go out and have fun. And so very much a social creature who happens to be an entrepreneur. I think that's kind of more where I lie.

Starting point is 00:52:12 I know numbers are important. So Mike more focuses on those. But I do care about those. Those are important. But I more care about the people. Like whenever I'm working on a new project, I really just hope that like I'll make a friend. It doesn't always happen, but like I hope it happens.

Starting point is 00:52:29 Like that just, I don't know. That's kind of like, how my dad was too. He was just friends with everybody. He was so sweet. He just got along with everybody. A little social guy. Were there moments in your career where you felt overwhelmed with the attention? No, I didn't mind any of it. I think I'm a pretty open book. I honestly suck at vlogging. So I think for like daily vloggers or like daily live streamers, they get a lot more of that fanatical following, whereas if you're just uploading one video week,

Starting point is 00:53:06 it's not as fanatic. I would love to be a vlogger, but here is the problem. I forget to film. I'm so in the moment when I'm social with my friends that I forget to film completely. I'm like, I hang out with so many

Starting point is 00:53:22 big YouTubers and I would say celebrities, people would have no idea because I don't take pictures. We do board game nights, we go to parties, we go to dinners, and we don't take one photo we don't post anything. It's just social. It's just for us.

Starting point is 00:53:36 So that would be my thing. I wish I could be a vlogger, but I... Do you really, though? I mean, I don't know. It seems like... Because you're, you know, I think what you're describing is, I mean, anyone honestly can relate to it now. Everyone is, you know, everyone has a phone,

Starting point is 00:53:49 everyone on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, or whatever it is. And yeah, you know, you go out in public and you just everyone, you see everyone doing this, right? And no one's like present or living in the moment, even if they, you know, it's not, they don't even have a career doing it. you know and then I know I've felt that before you know where you're constantly like making content you just like you show up to a thing and like oh that's really cool I got to get this and you're not really

Starting point is 00:54:12 enjoying the moment or present and I've you know if you've most of my Instagram stuff is just the podcast of the show I'm grateful I have a team can do it for me because it's like you know I think this morning I posted a picture of me in the mirror with like a fit check I guess like I'll do that like every two weeks, I suppose. I'm so bad on Instagram. I've gotten like really, I used to do the talking head stuff. And now it's just like, I don't know. I just, I would rather not, you know, because I think it just, it got me way too focused on,

Starting point is 00:54:44 I would show up to make content or just always have it on my mind. And it was, it just kind of ruined every experience. It turns certain things into work. You know, like I remember when we were. Like planning our wedding. And it was like, okay, you know, how many people do you want to collab with? And I was like, I don't really want to be like worrying about posting and tagging and doing all of this on my wedding weekend. So, you know, I feel like it turns when you are like with your girlfriends, you're hanging out, you're doing board game.

Starting point is 00:55:19 You're like, oh, wait, I got to let me take a picture and post this. It then turns it into now I'm working. Now I'm, you know, not as connected, not as like involved. Maybe the downside to vlogging that I didn't even think about. Yeah. But I feel like... I mean, I have so much respect for daily bloggers. I truly can't.

Starting point is 00:55:39 I don't know how they do. I literally just forget to film all the time. Sometimes I'll go to an event and I was supposed to take a picture or something. And Mike will be like, um, Ro. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You're like on the way home. We're like, uh-oh. I didn't take one photo.

Starting point is 00:55:53 And Mike's like, okay, I'll just ask one of your friends. And like one time I accidentally went live out of Sabrina. Carpenter concert. I was there with my girlfriend. And my phone was just like on my hip and it went live. So I was like a live streamer for a second. And I had no idea. And I also don't pay attention. I'm literally just doing my thing, partying, having so much fun. They had like a margarita keg. I was having a blast. I and Mike was literally he couldn't, he was calling me. I couldn't, I'm not paying attention to my phone. So he started calling my other friends that he knew were in the suite. And there weren't even people I went with. They were just people he knew there were.

Starting point is 00:56:28 there. And he was like, can somebody, she's, one of her friends, can someone let her know she's live. And like, finally, like, oh, hey, yes. And I was like, oh my gosh, how do I even, I didn't even know how to, like, turn it off. So this is so funny because it must have been terrifying, though, because, like, you know, we live in a world where like, it's terrifying. I see, I think it's more funny because, like, there isn't anything I would do in private, I think, or in public that I'd be really mortified about. Honestly, like, even my wild party stories where I've maybe had too much tequila and jumped in somebody's pool and got kicked out by a bodyguard, maybe even those, like, I'm not

Starting point is 00:57:08 embarrassed by. I'm just having fun. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you have shared a lot of your life online. Have you hit a point where you kind of have drawn a line of, like, what you want to share, what you don't want to share?

Starting point is 00:57:22 I definitely have thus far. but I think I'm going to be even more open. We just got some good news. We just got our season two of our podcast was renewed. So that's going to be coming out soon. And we have a new co-host. I'm so excited. It's a fellow little Italian.

Starting point is 00:57:43 Olivia Lopes from H3 podcast. And she's basically page six. Like she knows all the page six pop culture things going on in the world. I don't. And that's kind of our shtick. And she's going to share like pop culture stuff. We're going to talk about it. I react to it.

Starting point is 00:58:03 And I'm there more for the vibes. I make us a drink at the top of episode. I'm going to be blending us a new drink one day of peanut glada. The next day I'm in mint julep. We're just going to be, I'm going to be bringing the vibes, the booze, and some random animal and science facts. Because that's what I read a lot of. I read a lot of National Geographic. I'm subscribed.

Starting point is 00:58:25 and scientific American. And so, like, like, okay, for example, did you guys know that raccoons are domesticating themselves? Like, as we speak? Like, they are, as a species. Yes, they are domesticating themselves to humans, like, for survival. Like, they're becoming house pets. They're, like, literally changing their behavior. Like, I know you've always thought we were cute.

Starting point is 00:58:47 So you have to let us in. It is the cutest thing. Let us sit at the table. Go down a rabbit hole on Instagram of raccoon pets. It's happening. and National Geographic, everyone is recognizing it. It is actually happening, everyone. So we're embracing this.

Starting point is 00:59:01 Yes, we're embracing because they're so cute. They honestly are so adorable. Have you seen their hands? They have little human hands. And they're very clean. They wash their food before they eat it. And one of, I think, the funniest and meanest things that people are doing is they give the raccoon a little piece of cotton candy. And they will immediately put it in their water bowl because they want to wash it before

Starting point is 00:59:19 they eat it. And it disappears and they go, oh. And they like, and they keep looking in the water bowl. are like, wait, it was just here. Wait, wait. And like so many new raccoon owners are doing this because they're just getting a big kick out of it. Now they're going to be like, no more washing our food.

Starting point is 00:59:36 We're losing it in the water, everybody. We're too clean. But they're like taking baths. They're like, they're getting along with people's dogs. They'll cuddle with the dogs. They're like, they're just next they'll be like in bed with the babies. Random. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:49 They're still illegal in the state of California. I looked. I asked Mike if we could get one. But apparently you can get them. them in like Vegas. Okay. Did Mike look when you were like, can we get a recant? Was he like, I'll look into it.

Starting point is 01:00:02 Or was he like, this is a you thing? I don't know. I've asked to own like every animal that we could ever own like a copy barra. I was like, can we turn the pool, you know, into like a fresh water? We could just, we could live. This would be great. And he's like, no, we can't own those. I was like, ah, but can we?

Starting point is 01:00:21 Or a wombat sanctuary. Do you know how awesome that would be? They're so cool. I love wombats. They like poop squares. He's got you checked out. He's just like, I've heard this. Literally, their poops.

Starting point is 01:00:31 Their poops are squares. They're like, I don't get it. Like, how? Why are they cubes? That's so weird. They look like this. Are you serious? This is a wombat poop.

Starting point is 01:00:42 They're square poops. You have to. They're so weird. It's just like, and they look like little teddy bears. Oh my gosh, you got to see it. What? They're square.

Starting point is 01:00:54 How is that possible? There's square poof. How is that possible? So this is the kind of vibes I'll be bringing. If you ever want to tune in to us, we'll just literally be, it's just gossip. We'll be covering all the like, I don't know, like that Beckham stuff and all the stuff I know nothing about. I know baking and animal. All that Beckham stuff.

Starting point is 01:01:15 Yeah, I don't. I don't know what's happening. They're not getting along. Yeah. They're not getting along. I can gather that. That's about all. I know. There was major drama at the wedding.

Starting point is 01:01:28 I'm curious, how have you been, you know, you've had such a long career. And I don't feel like being in the public eyes for the faint of heart, so to speak. And a lot of your, not sure if you're friends with all of them, but a lot of YouTube stars have been caught up in various controversies and things like that. I'm just curious your perspective on one, how have you been able to like have, like, have. such longevity and has it ever worn on you being in the public eye and feel like you know maybe you did something and you know speaking about the passing your father um there was a story about how you he was cremated if it's okay to talk about this yeah yeah and my understanding of the story if i'm wrong is then you took his ashes you put it in a plant you grew some weed

Starting point is 01:02:20 smoke the weed which sounds as someone who dabbles I thought that was pretty cool was a way to memorialize your father thank you but it sounds like maybe some people in the internet had a different interpretation of that yeah we certainly know what it's like

Starting point is 01:02:38 we're on this podcast we're talking hours a day and then we'll say to something and a couple days later someone will call me like do you know they're saying this about what you said I'm like what how are they that's not what I you know And then now we're in the short form world, right? You know, people will go on clips and they'll take a five-minute conversation and turn into a 90-second conversation. You're like, well, yeah, but that's not what I said or I certainly didn't mean that, you know?

Starting point is 01:03:04 And I guess when it comes to your father's passion. They did that a lot with my dad online. How did you process that and that it ever get to you? I don't care what strangers think. Like, if I don't know you, I don't care. because that's your own, what your opinion is of me is your business, not mine. And I also know who I am so much, especially now at my age. I just don't care what people in general think of me.

Starting point is 01:03:35 I think I only care about my family and friends. I think that that is where my heart is. So that's the only thing that really affects me is the people who I actually love are a part of my life that I'm close to, like, those are the people that can hurt me the most. I think that that's the little bit of the difference. And I don't know if it's a tough skin, but it's definitely something I've learned over the years on YouTube. I remember the first year I was on YouTube, I got negative comments and it really upset me. Like, these comments were like, your voice is annoying, your lighting sucks. You're stupid. You know, and I was like, whoa, okay. Whoa, whoa. Yeah. But then I

Starting point is 01:04:17 realized like, hey, my lighting does kind of suck. So some of the insults were actually really constructive. So I actually took some of those insults and like things even my fans wouldn't tell me like, my fans wouldn't tell me like, hey, your lighting sucks dick. You know, but literally haters would. So then I was like, my lighting could use improvement. So I would take that and make my content better. So just thank you to all my haters because I listened to every single word and used it to improve. But other than that, I let the rest go because there's nothing really you can do about it. Like there was some pretty mean people like when I honored my dad.

Starting point is 01:04:56 I get that it's a weird thing to do. Like honoring your dad in that way is not an atypical. It's not typical. But my dad was like kind of a Willie Nelson type. He was an outdoorsman. He worked on military contracts. He taught me how to shoot. He was kind of a cowboy.

Starting point is 01:05:14 boy, he grew up in Kansas. He was just a badass. He taught me how to fish for my own food. And he dabbled. He smoked a little bit of weed time to time. And it was something really symbolic and meaning to him. And he wanted me to take the ashes, mix it with soil, grow a cannabis plant and smoke it. A request from him. Yeah, this was his last dying wish. Wow. And it took me five years to get to the point where I was comfortable doing it. And I worked with a real licensed grower here in California, an expert, and I did the process with them. And it was really symbolic and really special and really meaningful. And I explained that all when we were public about it. Because, you know, entertainment's a small town. People are going to find out. So I thought it's better to be

Starting point is 01:06:00 open and honest about it than to like do it in private and then people slowly find out and it turns into something it's not. And like, I'd rather people hear it from me. How disheartening? was that even though you went to such great lengths to quote unquote do it right, which I don't not, I don't think there's a right or wrong way to memorialize your father, but you hired the, the expert botanist or grower or whatever, you were up front with your audience, you set those upfront expectations and then the internet still interneted. The internet is always going to internet, which was really funny is like the people who were really hateful and judgmental were really hateful and judgmental. But the other set,

Starting point is 01:06:41 was so supportive. And even like culturally in different cultures, people do something kind of similar. And they, those people reaching out made me feel a lot better. And there's even just people who would take ashes of remain ones and they would like put it in the soil and grow a tree. A lot of people are choosing to do that as well nowadays. So they were saying that like that's pretty similar. You know, like if you grew it into an apple tree. And I was trying to explain to people that, Plants filter themselves. My dad's DNA is not actually in the plant. They filter themselves, but it's the symbolism.

Starting point is 01:07:19 That was their big concern. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember what podcast. It was one of Tanna's podcast, that one that isn't it, she insinuated, Brooke insinuated that it was illegal what I was doing. And Paige said I was a cannibal. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 01:07:33 And she went on four podcasts and spread this misinformation. And that's where I got into some beef with Tana because I told, her in person, like face to face, what I was doing, why I was important, why I was meaningful. And then she just exploited it for views and just completely oversimplified it and let her friends start rumors. Like, and I had to literally go and clear it up and be like, it's not illegal. In the state of California, you can grow six plants per residence. Like, nothing I did was illegal. Everything was by the book. And also,

Starting point is 01:08:11 plants filter themselves. There's no form of that in any way. I would never do that. Like, it's a very hippie thing to do, but it's, that's not it. Have you guys reconciled at all? No. Because she went on four podcasts and exploited my dad's death for views and money.

Starting point is 01:08:27 That's tough. That's not something a friend does. Especially, I'm Italian. Like, we're so close with our family. When my dad, he passed a leukemia. She also knows that. Like, he was diagnosed. I had six years with them and he lived with me. And, like, I helped bring him to appointments.

Starting point is 01:08:43 Like, we spent every day together until he passed. We were extremely close. So that... No? No. I hear you. I would never talk about my friends, parents who passed away ever in a disrespectful manner. I would never talk about how they honored them.

Starting point is 01:09:03 I would never... There are some things you don't do. like ethically morally. And then the fact that I considered her a friend, like this is somebody I invited to my little nephew's birthdays and stuff. Like, no. Italians don't play like that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:20 Did you ever confront her? Oh, I made a video. Yeah. But no, I have no interest. Zero. Did it affect your grieving process having to deal with the response of like having to be like actually wait guys like no this isn't legal i did all this right plants filter themselves like having to explain yourself did that take away from being able to

Starting point is 01:09:45 actually grieve your father i think that i had a lot of support and help so i think it definitely could have it had the ability to do that but i was really lucky to have david kessler on and he is the national leading expert in grief he actually counseled joe biden when he lost his son and I got to spend time with him and sit down with him and just learned so much from him. He's a wealth of knowledge. And it really helped give me strength and knowledge and change my perspective about other people's opinions about it. And my dad was such a badass that the way we honored him was also badass. And there's nothing wrong with smoking a little weed.

Starting point is 01:10:31 And anyone who has a problem with that sucks. Was there, is there anything that you took from him that you can share with our audience that like really helped you? My dad had a really cute quote and I'm going to mess it up, but it was basically just always play with musicians who are more talented than you. And he said in my case, that wasn't very hard because he loved music, but he wasn't the best singer, but he was really good at guitar. And he just said to always surround yourself with people who are into what you're doing, basically. and you can learn from them. But he was just a really cool guy. Really odd, like, friend circle.

Starting point is 01:11:11 Because of my dad's military background, there was, like, a lot of people who people would consider to be very conservative. And, like, he grew up with Mad Dog and it's just Jim. And he was an eagle scouts with him. And then also there was people who liked to dabble and were very much hippies. And so my dad was kind of this mix of both worlds. and he brought both of those worlds together, and it was just so beautiful.

Starting point is 01:11:36 I've never, ever seen someone like my dad. It was he had the most hippie, liberal friends, and then the most concern. It was the, like, and you put them together, and they're literally drinking beers and playing croquet together. Like, it's happening. I don't, and it was just magical. And I think it stem from love.

Starting point is 01:11:56 He just really loved people. Yeah. It's beautiful. I wish you guys could have met him. Papa Pizza was the best. best. Oh, he sounds like he's the best. He was so fun. Oh, I miss him all the time. It seems like you have a lot of your dad and you. Yeah, that's what my mom says. I even look like him. So I look more like my dad than my mom. I think our daughter looks more like Nick than me too.

Starting point is 01:12:18 Really? Yeah. Oh, that's too funny. I think, I feel like most girls look like their father. You know, it's like the caveman times to prove, you know, fraternity, whatever. But yeah, she. Yeah, you're definitely mine. She looks just like this. When she was a newborn, everyone would say she looked just like Nick's dad. And I was like, how does my little precious baby look like a 60-year-old man with a beard? I'm confused. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 01:12:48 I just remembered another really fun piece of advice. My dad knew I was going to be short because he was a shorty. And I was not, you know, when I was growing up, I was not coming in at the top of the height charts. percentiles for children's height averages. So he was like, look, if anyone makes fun of you for being short, you tell him to eat shit. And I was like, thanks, dad. So he was just a very, like, if someone hits you, hit him back harder. And my mom hated that. She was like, no, no, no, no, Mike, no, no, no, Mike, that's not. But I definitely am my father's daughter. That is just, there's a fight within me that he instilled there. He was very must-a- very like feisty Irish men and I'm the same way. Yeah. I'm curious about, can we talk to you about Mr. Beast? Yeah, of course. Yeah. I love him. He's my best one. But not just focusing on him, but the larger conversation, I get, I think the reason I'm curious is because you come up and like I, you know, come from Bachelnation, right? So you kind of get lumped into this group of like anyone

Starting point is 01:13:56 who goes on this show. So if someone who's kind of part of that fraternity, does something that, you know, people take exception with or a buzz is created, maybe for good or bad. Often it's like, well, what do you think about them, you know, your community, your people? You should speak up on this, et cetera, et cetera. And there have been a lot of YouTubers over the years who have been caught up in controversy. Some very much deserved by their actions. Others, you know, maybe unclear, you know. And so I guess for a larger question, like, how do you decide as someone who's an OG, you know, in this YouTube space from the very beginning?

Starting point is 01:14:40 Often it sounds like you've probably interacted and maybe friends with a lot of these people. How have you handled that pressure or maybe there has been no pressure to decide whether you should use your platform in your voice to maybe challenge or critique some of your peers? That's a really good question. I think advice my dad gave me just in general about relationships is speak up when it matters about the bigger things and let little things go. He said that that was the best marriage advice he could ever give me. He said him and my mom, they never fought about little things. Let the little stuff go.

Starting point is 01:15:20 Just have those disagreements about the big things. Save it for that. It's going to save you a lot of time. And I think for me, that's what I've been trying to lean into. I only speak up unless I feel it's egregious. And like it's just hitting a point of fed upness. For example, like on the Escape the Knights, even I spoke up because Joey Grisapha, wait, have you had Joey on? He's the sweetest person.

Starting point is 01:15:51 Oh my gosh, Joey Gricevra is the sweetest YouTuber, just person, human being in the entire world, He's literally just like the kindest, most creative individual. He's so sweet that anyone who is mean to him, it's like kicking a puppy. Like my full mama bear comes out. I'm like, and that's not my usual side. It's just a side of me. Like if you see a puppy being kicked, like it's like, okay, I'm going rip your, I'm going to rip your three out.

Starting point is 01:16:19 Like, do that, do that again. It's just that kind of instinct kicks in. it's a protective instinct. And I think it's because I have a lot of estrogen. I actually have a disorder, a hormone disorder. But I have a lot of estrogen. It's just very mama bear. And so when I see behavior that triggers it, I think it's worth to speak up about. I spoke up when Logan Paul filmed in the Japanese forest. I spoke up not just publicly, but privately with YouTube executives. He really damaged the ecosystem on YouTube for a while. A lot of huge advertisers pulled out. and it affected creators in a big way.

Starting point is 01:16:57 Not just big creators, but mostly the smaller channels and medium-sized channels, because these huge advertisers pulled out, bigger channels had multiple revenue streams, so they were kind of okay. But I would say the medium-to-small-sized channels, it was devastating. They lost most all their income. It was that adpocalypse.

Starting point is 01:17:15 And he didn't care. His bullshit apology tour that he went on was just for his own PR shit. Like that is the kind of behavior where, He didn't understand that his behavior and affected an entire community of people, an entire community of like, that's their livelihood. That's how they make money. Like, he didn't care about the community. He just cares about himself. Those are the kind of people I just don't get along with because there is nothing wrong with being successful.

Starting point is 01:17:41 More power to you. Like Markiplier, one of my favorite YouTubers. I love him. He's talented, hardworking. He just released a movie Iron Jaw, Claw, Long. He released it privately. And it just made like 30 million. dollars. There are ways to make money and be successful and not hurt other people. And I think that

Starting point is 01:18:01 that's where I draw line is, and that's what I really don't like. I don't like when people make money off of other people hurting them. I think it's just like, it's a mama bear thing with me. I don't like that at all. And it's the same with Beasts. Like I know a lot more than other people do because when I spoke up, I basically became an unofficial hotline, like an abuse hotline for Mr. Beasts employees and people who have worked with them. And I talked to over 200 people, not just from Beast games, but 50 people who were former and current employees at Mr. Beast and terrible behavior and things that are going on behind the scenes. Just awful. Just every ounce of me has to control myself not to say something because things are in the works.

Starting point is 01:18:50 And yeah. Do you think it's being dealt with? I think some, I think something. are and some things will come to light. And I think that I just, I don't know, I'm just thinking about the people who are affected by him. I know that when you run a big company, nothing's perfect. But what I learned working with him and my multiple experiences, a lot of people just think I'm the girl that was in his creator games video.

Starting point is 01:19:11 And I got edited out of a position I earned. No. And so they say you're slighted and you're mad. Yeah, no. Jimmy and I knew each other for over like five or six years. We've worked on multiple business ventures. off of YouTube together. He has screwed me over in every single, every single project we've ever worked on. And just for the record, I have never reached out to him to work on anything. He always

Starting point is 01:19:36 reached out to me every single time to work with me repetitively. It was a one way thing. And Creator Games three, I was in one, two, and three. And the third one was just my final straw. I think that after just being disrespected and treated so poorly in private for years by him, and then I earned my spot and he it's about fair representation. Like he says his videos are real and authentic and that's not what happened. He edited it out the only woman in the top three. I earned my spot. I beat Logan Paul.

Starting point is 01:20:05 And he didn't show that. He showed that Logan got second place. Logan got like sixth place. He gave up. He got tired. And it was really sad as I have more endurance than Logan Paul. Like I'm like what? How much older than him?

Starting point is 01:20:19 And like I'm a little older. women and I have more endurance than him, that's embarrassing for him. Like, that is really embarrassing. He got too tired. And he got too tired and he had to give up and come out of the freezer and wait. And I was just, you know, still green beret in it. Like, let's go. We can do this. But that's the, that's the thing that bothered me is I beat them fair and square. I followed all the rules. I didn't cheat. And he allowed cheating. He allowed Zach King, who won number one, to cheat. He allowed he edited Logan to be second. He didn't get second.

Starting point is 01:20:54 He got six. But you're also saying just outside of that bullshit, which I completely understand why it's frustrating. That's just a fraction of it. Just imagine what happens behind the scenes. You know, what I can see some of his defenders. She'd be like, oh, you're just mad. You didn't like your edit, you know, basically.

Starting point is 01:21:11 I don't give a shit about the edit. It's about six years of dealing with this man. And in every aspect, he screws people over. It's not, well, he's, in every. Every aspect that we worked together, he didn't treat me with any respect. Just like from the first, say like the first or second or second or third time, after he had screwed you over once, what was the internal thought process that you had to say, I'm going to give him some grace.

Starting point is 01:21:36 Let's try this again. How did you get to that point? And then again, at your comfort level, like what changed? I think what changed is realizing that I do have a mindset for long-term relationships. I do give a lot of grace. I do try to work things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, which I did. I basically made a million excuses.

Starting point is 01:21:58 This could have happened. This could have happened. This could have happened. For every business deal that went terrible and every situation that went terrible, I just gave so much grace. But in that moment, it was him not taking accountability and allowing now it's like 400 million people, because right when I came out in the beginning, people said I was lying, that didn't earn that spot. And it's not taking accountability and telling millions of people that

Starting point is 01:22:27 know that actually did happen. We did edit it to be different than what actually happened. Like, just taking accountability for what he did to me automatically. So publicly he called you a liar. Yeah, because he didn't take accountability. On the phone, I had a private phone call with him and Keemstar. He apologized, but it was a fake apology. It was one of those apologies that I'm sorry that happened. Again, not taking accountability that he chose to make it happen. He specifically recorded voiceover with fake storyline to fill in the gaps of what did not happen to make it seem like it happened. And his whole, and his whole premise is this isn't edited? His whole premise is that his videos

Starting point is 01:23:08 aren't fake. He doesn't fake his videos. And the video also was a contest giveaway. So we were competing for a million dollars to give away to our community. And I came in third. Then it was Quakety and then Zach King. Zach King cheated. So Quackety would have got first. I would have got second. I didn't pay attention to Quackety's gameplay. I don't know what he was doing at all.

Starting point is 01:23:31 But I think that it's so much money and that it's the amount of money that could change people's lives that those of us who were left at the end were taking it serious. Like I was there for my community. I'm not there for myself. I'm there for them. And I'm fighting for them. And I think that also he doesn't understand. what that means. In my experience, he's very sexist. In my experience, he runs a boys club. So I'm not

Starting point is 01:23:58 one of his boys. So I'm not going to get any special treatment. I can't cheat. They can. And he's going to edit them to look better than they actually did. And right after I spoke up, it was announced that Mr. Beast is now sponsoring crime. So of course he's going to make Logan Paul look better than he did because, yeah, he wants him to perform better and get more screen time or whatever in a video. I don't give a shit about scream time. I literally, I could host my podcast by myself. I chose to have a co-host. Like, I want to share a spot.

Starting point is 01:24:29 Like, I've been like this since I was a child. I grew up on team sports. Like, that's just who I am. I know who I am. It really bothers me. People who are like, oh, she just is mad about this or that. I'm like, no, I'm just tired of getting fucked over by this guy. And also just, like, I don't like him as a person.

Starting point is 01:24:48 I don't like him off camera. And a lot of people, they don't see him off camera. They have no idea. They're just like, they see him on camera. He's a guy who gives away cars, money, candy bars, and... He's very different. Does philanthropy. Yeah, he's...

Starting point is 01:25:03 He only cares about one thing, in my opinion. Money empowers his true north. There's nothing else. Learning a new language is one of those skills that truly stays with you. And it's incredibly rewarding once you start hearing yourselves understand and speak it naturally. Rosetta Stone makes it. It's simple to get started and easy to keep going. Whether you are trying to learn a new language or just learn a few words or key phrases before you go and travel,

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Starting point is 01:27:59 built and redeem for Amazon points. It's simple. Paying rent is better with built and now owning a home can be better with built to earn rewards and get something back wherever you live. Join the loyalty program for renters at joinbilt.com slash v-I-A-L-L that is JoinB-B-I-L-L-T-com.com slash V-I-A-L. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. I don't follow Mr. Rees very closely. Obviously, he's so big that it's hard not to notice the billboards and all the things and his appearances on like late-night television and stuff like that. The one thing I constantly hear quotes of him is how much he doesn't care about money.

Starting point is 01:28:40 He's a liar. He's unquote in an article. I can't remember it's the Rolling Stones article. I can send it to you. It's quote, he prides himself. I'm a great liar. I think one of the pet peeves I have about him to is just how much he lies. It's just like you want to just shut it off.

Starting point is 01:28:59 He goes, I don't care about money. I don't have any money. I'm broke. And then in the same next interview, he'll be like, what's the most money you've ever spent? He's like, well, I spent $150,000, take a private jet to go visit my girlfriend. If you have no money, you aren't taking private jets. If you have no money. We could go on.

Starting point is 01:29:15 but it's the semantics. He's very manipulative. Like when he did the interview with umpah, my blood is boiling because of the semantics. He focused on things like, they were like, oh, everyone's mad because they say we named this guy Delaware, his nickname because he can't go back to Delaware. But that's not why.

Starting point is 01:29:38 That was always his nickname. He focuses on a detail that doesn't matter. No one gives a shit about what the, guy's nickname is, Delaware, fucking Minnesota, who the fuck cares what his nickname is? People care that you knowingly hired a registered sex offender who was convicted of rape in the fourth degree of a child and then put him in multiple videos targeted at children on your YouTube channel. That's what people care about.

Starting point is 01:30:07 And then when people started to recognize him, then they made him wear a mask and stuff and then eventually fired him. But it's like he has never answered that question. directly. Wow. He manipulates every interview. But he's also with who's at Matthew Hilick Press crisis management team. He's probably been media trained now.

Starting point is 01:30:27 So like every time a question comes up, he'll skirt around it. You know, he'll like, they'll be like, what about your charity video you faked, you know, where you said you built a hospital, but you CGI did it. They didn't build a hospital. You know what they did? They put in solar panels, which is amazing, all on its own. You don't need to lie. You don't need to exaggerate.

Starting point is 01:30:44 You don't need to say that you did something bigger than it was. Just doing that for a hospital, giving them power is fucking amazing. Glote about it. But they didn't. They literally CGIed building the building and they let journalists and newspapers who were saying they built the hospital support the narrative that they built a hospital when they didn't. And then when I called him out on it because his employees are tattling, his employee, half of the team quit or whatever. Like, he's like, oh, yeah, I was one of my editors. and then even Umpa was like, which editor, he won't name names.

Starting point is 01:31:16 It was Dan. It was Dan. He produced it, filmed it, edited it, and he was there with Mr. Beast. They were both physically there in person. And just like, so everybody knows nothing goes up on Mr. Bees channel without his permission. He goes on so many interviews and says that he is meticulous. He is obsessive. That is correct. Nothing goes up without his permission. An editor didn't just randomly see GI in a fucking building. He's given the intern post. So that excuse? Yeah, and he always blamed somebody else.

Starting point is 01:31:44 It's always a spokesperson said this. A team member, I was an editor. He has so many fall guys. And that's just the kind of person that needs that many fall people, it just says something to me. Yeah. He is his primary audience, his kids, is it not? Yeah, it's children. Young boys.

Starting point is 01:32:04 And I think he just did a deal in Saudi Arabia. He took some Saudi Arabia money and they did a pop-up theme park over there. And now he wants to open a bank or he's opening a bank. You can get your kids can get a Mr. B's credit card. Oh, boy. Can't wait. Oh, boy. I mean, it sounds like you feel like he shouldn't be given the power and privilege that he has.

Starting point is 01:32:28 And it's potentially dangerous to those. I think he's an extremely dangerous person. And I think that I wish more people knew who he was behind the camera because I think not the kids, but especially the parents. Like, I think they should know because he is so popular and it does hold a lot of weight and influence. And, like, even the candy bars he's selling at Walmart and stuff.

Starting point is 01:32:56 Like, I just think parents should know what they're supporting. He claims to be a political. He's not. He's hired Republican lobbyists in North Carolina and has not disclosed what he's doing with them. He also has old tweet. he's at Trump rallies. Like, I just think people should understand what is really happening there.

Starting point is 01:33:19 And it feels like, I mean, you being so brave and outspoken, I can't imagine how many people are scared to do that. Yeah, really scared because you get outcasted. So I think the difference is between being canceled and outcasted is basically when you get canceled, you get canceled by. the public, the community, the people. Advertisers. People's choice.

Starting point is 01:33:45 Advertisers. You get canceled. Being outcasted is what has happened to me, where I spoke up about the most popular influencer, and he's really got his hands in a lot of businesses and a lot of things, and I just got outcasted. Half of my friends who I've known for over a decade stopped talking to me. They've just recently started to come back and talk with me now because I'm, I have been more quiet.

Starting point is 01:34:14 But I think what's interesting is I don't think that there should ever be someone in entertainment, in government that you can't criticize. I don't think that there should ever be someone that is untouchable and can do no wrong and everything gets swept, like swept under the rug. I don't think that that is good. I think that accountability should happen. Yeah. And I think that's how you have really healthy and, like, better environment.

Starting point is 01:34:41 environments and communities. I just think that that is the way I'd love to go. I would love if he became a 24-hour live streamer. Would love it. Love it. I hope he does it. I hope he becomes a 24-hour live streamer seven days a week. I would love-

Starting point is 01:34:56 You feel like his true colors would show? I would love for people to meet him. Are you worried about retaliation from him or his people? Not necessarily his audience. I mean, we now live in a time and not in the weeds of other pop culture stories, But it's pretty common knowledge at this point that crisis PR teams have the ability to, especially with AI blowing up, to influence internet conversations, right? Start campaigns against people. I actually saw this very interesting tweet, and she very eloquently talked about how these campaigns work where they start a theme and then it gets actual organic.

Starting point is 01:35:41 Because the argument with these people who do these campaigns is like, no, it's just organic. Is this how people on the Internet really feel? Right? And they'll speak to like, this is, see, this isn't a bot. This is a real person, the real opinion. And they really think this, how can you discredit this opinion? And what it comes down to is how these people very manipulatively, strategically create these campaigns.

Starting point is 01:36:05 And then people will jump on those campaigns. And maybe those things go, they get pushed to. go viral and people are like, oh, my opinion went viral, I could do more of it. So it's, it starts very organically. It does have an organic moment, but that organic moment is manipulated. And it can be very scary and you don't, and it's all behind the scenes. So you can never really tell what, what is real, what is authentic? Is this hate coming from, like, did I do something wrong? Or is there someone behind this? And it's almost hard to like, how do you not get in your head? It's very black Meir in a way. And I guess was someone of his power and influence, someone who's hiring lobbyists,

Starting point is 01:36:44 I mean, that's that's power. That's crazy power. Is there ever a fear of that happening? I would say that there's a reason he hasn't sued me. Okay. Because if we went to court, everything would come out in discovery and stuff he doesn't probably want on his public record forever. Everything that I have posted on my channel is true and there's much more. And there's always the possibility of them starting, like, false AI campaigns to, like, try to ruin my image. The thing is, I just don't care. I'm so old. I've been so blessed.

Starting point is 01:37:24 I've had such a long career. I'm 40 this year. And also, I've diversified. Mike and I talked about this many years ago. But I don't talk about it a lot publicly, but I'm a founder of an app. and I also invest into food companies. So when you've diversified your revenue streams, my whole world isn't just YouTube anymore.

Starting point is 01:37:44 It used to be, and I love YouTube. And it's still a home for me. I love it, and I want to do it till the day I die. I love it. I love the community, and it changed my life in all the beautiful ways. But it also, fear should never stop any person from doing what's right. I truly believe that. That's how like dictatorships and stuff start is when people start responding in fear to bullies.

Starting point is 01:38:12 They start responding into fear of what if this person's going to attack me or whatever. That is when the bullies and that kind of like they win. And I just don't believe in it. I don't believe in it. If I was in Star Wars, I would be Hans Solo in that shit till a day I die. There is no way I'm going to put on an empire suit. never. So that's just,

Starting point is 01:38:40 I would just tell people don't be scared. Or if you are scared, that's okay. If you feel fear, it's okay. Don't let it stop you from doing the right thing because you wouldn't believe there's so many more of you than there are of them.

Starting point is 01:38:53 That's also what I like to remind myself as like, I don't like to think of like, oh, I'm speaking up against the world's most powerful creator who happens to be a billionaire and isn't also other billionaires' backpockets because they all work together. Like, don't think about that.

Starting point is 01:39:09 Just think about doing the right thing, being honest, standing up for what's right, and just let the cards lie where they lie. They know what I know and I know what they know and it's just kind of is what it is. You're bad. I know too much. I think that's the other problem is I know too much.

Starting point is 01:39:27 It's just wish I didn't. But it is so inspiring, honestly, to just listen to you, put your foot down and like, You know, I think time and time again, especially women, let, you know, powerful men take over constantly. And it is so inspiring to sit here and listen to you, be like, not anymore. Not this time. Not to me. Stand up. Put your foot down. Like, you can do this. Oh, it's ridiculous. Did you, did you see Jake Paul's tweet the other day at the Super Bowl? Or he was like, everybody turn off the halftime show. Mm-hmm. And then tweeted, I don't know what happened to my Twitter. I don't know what you were talking about. I love Bad Bunny.

Starting point is 01:40:08 What? He's one second calling him a fake American because he's standing up to injustice and saying that he does not like these things. These things are fucked up because they are. And then the next second is like, oh, no, I love him. I know I love him. I just the amount of bullshit that comes out of these fools mouths, I have no tolerance. It's just like the mama bearer, no tolerance.

Starting point is 01:40:36 I just, boys, if you're going to talk your shit, stand by it, at least. I tried to make peace with these, basically long story short, but the apology I got was fake. And I just don't mess with fake people. I think it's pretty badass that you've created such a, like you talked about diversifying, where it's just like you're what people know you most for and, you know, Forbes magazine called you one of the number one erders on YouTube. And you're like, that's nice to have. but I don't need it anymore.

Starting point is 01:41:05 It is a pretty cool thing to be able to say. It's a very nice and privileged spot to be in. I also recognize that. I think that there's a lot of other creators that want to be vocal, but they are dependent in some way on not getting outcasted. And not to like throw stones in any of those people.

Starting point is 01:41:24 To your point is it's, you know, what's really important to what you're saying and what you're doing is you've recognized that you've been able to build what you've been able to build. and that has put you in a position of security that maybe other influences don't have. Right.

Starting point is 01:41:39 And you recognize that and then you're willing to do something about it and have the empathy for those other creators who maybe don't have that security. And instead of saying, why aren't you doing this and supporting me, you've said, I got this. I got it.

Starting point is 01:41:54 And it's a pretty badass thing. It's taking a lot of heat, but it's okay. it's just, I feel like it's the right thing to do. Mr. B's PR team, the Matthew Hilsig people, are in the Epstein files. It's the same company consulting Epstein of what to do. Like, that crisis management company does not work with the best charactered people. And as a part of his rehabilitation, they were like, let's focus on his philanthropy work.

Starting point is 01:42:30 I'm like, is anybody else seeing what I'm seeing? Like, at what point, I just want people to know, hey, I did my job in 20 years. I'm not going to say I told you so. I was like, don't say I didn't warn you. Just like literally, I've said it. It's out there. I've done my best. Damn it.

Starting point is 01:42:53 Even his lawyer, Alex, he was technically mentioned in the Epstein files because they're just, it's that group. There's a lot of people in that. That was fine. Reality TV stars, politicians. It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. He's got a great PR team.

Starting point is 01:43:12 Billing dollars will buy you a lot. I'm curious, like you mentioned that Logan Paul on the suicide forest. Yeah. Totally with you on the, you know, the apology tour that was self-serving. I remember, I think he said some of the effect that I thought this was this interesting in it was sincere or not, certainly not a justification, but he was basically saying, like, I live in this algorithm and I'm doing, it was basically making an excuse, right? Right.

Starting point is 01:43:40 Where it's just like, hey, I have to do a crazy thing every day in order to like, you know, trick the algorithm, so to speak. Obviously, you went about things a different way. So I guess two-part question is, one, how are you able to not give in to, to, to, to, of like just, you know, hey, well, they enter, I got to do this. Like the pressure, I've made so much money. I have to keep building. If you're not growing, you're dying. And I guess I just got to keep doing this. How did you not lose yourself like so many other creators did, um, did, trying to like chase the next viral moment? I would say just don't be an asshole. There's so many successful people on YouTube who are kindhearted, who are amazing, whose numbers increased every year.

Starting point is 01:44:29 A lot of sweet gamers that I know that they have the cutest Minecraft channels. People probably don't even hear about them. They make multi, multi millions of dollars a year. They're very financially successful, have not been in one drama. There are so many people that find success without being assholes. I think that assholes are really loud. So we see them the most. And I also think with Logan, his excuse of kind of having to one up his last video and go

Starting point is 01:44:59 bigger and bigger and bigger. He didn't have to do that. He was extremely successful. He could have not done that. It's just when your true north is money and power, nothing else matters. You don't care about other people. You don't care about how you affect other people. You don't care about their feelings. When money and power is your only true north, then you understand their mindset. Why do they do anything? Just the crypto stuff that he does with his audience. Money and power. Just anything, it just, that's all it comes down to.

Starting point is 01:45:33 It's that simple with them. They're so boring because there's so many people who are so successful. There's a million other examples of how to have financial success. They're just the loudest. They're the loudest assholes in the room. And it's just like, oh my God, shut up because there's like a million other people in this room who are so financially successful and don't have to be douchebags. Like, there's so many.

Starting point is 01:45:59 And it's like, no, he didn't have to do that. And it's just frustrating because it's, ugh. Have you kept in contact with any of the people who are kind of in your space coming up that have fallen off, the Jenna Marbles, the Gabby Hanna's? Have you? Yeah. You have? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:46:20 There's like, especially Jenna. I love Jenna. Marbles. She's just like a sweet. She got married. She like spends time with dogs, I heard, volunteering. Last time I saw her was at Sophia and Tyler's wedding. Sophia, Nygaardtel, they moved to North Carolina. So I haven't seen them in a minute, but we did text. We want to do a birthday, get together soon. But it's, I do stay in touch with a lot of people. And luckily, half of my friends, even though I have stood up to basically the unofficial CEO of YouTube, Mr. Least, they remain friends with me publicly and openly, and I appreciate

Starting point is 01:47:00 them for that. I really do. And I think in time, just the more people see of him, I think that people will just be able to understand my perspective a lot more. I think that that will definitely. Do you think Jenna is someone who am vaguely familiar with her story and her controversy? So do you think her mistakes or whatever people want to call them, do you think it was misrepresented out of context? And or do you feel like if she wanted one, sounds like maybe she just doesn't, deserves people's grace in a second chance?

Starting point is 01:47:40 I think everyone makes mistakes. I think what's different about some individuals versus others is some of them truly deeply feel them. Like when Jenna made a mistake and realized that, hey, she does comedy videos. Her whole thing was comedy. Comedy music, comedy videos, and like taking care of her dogs. She loves her dogs and her cute little family life. So when she makes a comedy video and she did something that was inappropriate and the

Starting point is 01:48:13 internet called her out for it, she was heartbroken, felt it on a deep level. I think that she beat herself up about it. I think that it was like, how did I not know that I should have done this? In her mind, it's, you know, comedy, but realizing that that's not, comedy has evolved so much over the last 10 years. Like, if you go back and watch the comedy movies in the 80s, like Ace Ventura, that didn't age well. Like, I love Jim Carrey, but holy shit, that movie, like, some of those jokes and just

Starting point is 01:48:42 that type of comedy that was so publicly accepted at the time is just so offensive now. It's like cancelable now. And so I think when I'm thinking of her as a comedian, making like a joke for her, like and realizing miss the mark hurt people's feelings, she took it to her soul. Yeah. And never returned. Like she beat herself up about it. No one has probably beat herself up more than her.

Starting point is 01:49:13 I like that like that is a person who actually remorse. actually cares and it broke her heart. And I would love for her to come back, but I don't think she broke her heart. I think her heart broke that she broke other people's hearts. Like I think that that was a genuine, she's a really genuine person. For the friends that outcasted you

Starting point is 01:49:36 or have outcasted you with the whole Mr. Beast thing, is there a space where you let them back in? Always. Yes. I love them. I literally text them all the time. I still invite them. I throw them out all the love because I understand it. It's like high school, like a popularity thing. It's like a peer pressure thing. It's not personal. And I do understand that.

Starting point is 01:50:02 It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt my feelings any less, but I do understand it. And I also get it because like on YouTube, if your whole thing is YouTube, like your whole business is built on YouTube, if I've upset the largest YouTuber on the platform who owns a lot of other media outlets. Like his former president was an owner of the streamies, like the streamie awards and also owned like tube filter and like they write articles. So it's just like just understanding how deep the rabbit hole goes. So if I upset them, I get kicked out of all of these things. I understand that.

Starting point is 01:50:40 And I don't I don't hold anyone. I don't hold a grudge against anyone because I totally get it. I would just encourage them to open your mind outside of YouTube. It's pretty great. I would say up until then, most all my friends were YouTubers. And now my friends are comedians, musicians, entrepreneurs. We have some just friends that are off of YouTube. So it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 01:51:07 I'm able to kind of speak my piece and speak my mind because the people who don't mind are the people I love. and doesn't matter to them. And then the other people aren't even on YouTube, so it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of like. And now you're still a pioneer because now, again,

Starting point is 01:51:24 we're seeing so many creators, many from YouTube, you know, some from TikTok or whatever, who are now getting some of these, I don't want to say real opportunities, but like opportunities like back in the day when your agency was like, hey, it's this or that. Yeah. You can either be a YouTube star or you can be a star. It's amazing. Now it's all coming together. It's so cool.

Starting point is 01:51:46 Like when Mark's Iron Lung went into movie theaters, I think he was only preparing it for it to be in like 50 movie theaters. But then because fans were like demanding it of movie theaters, they opened it up to like a couple hundred. And then it performed so well. Like literally saving movie theaters. Yeah, it like it rivaled the Disney movie coming out. It like, that is wild.

Starting point is 01:52:08 That's so exciting. That's so amazing. I do love seeing YouTubers getting their own shows. Like, I've even got to executive produce a TV show. So this is just an exciting time and a time that I always hoped for YouTubers. It's finally, like, happening. I will say that's the one thing that I'm really excited about. And even when I spoke up about the Beast games, a lot of people were saying I was speaking up to cancel it.

Starting point is 01:52:31 Absolutely not. I was speaking up for safety. And I'm glad I did because after you speak up, I just want to remind everyone, guess what happened? Safe changes. Safe changes happened. And that's what like real change has happened. And you don't want to see anyone cancel. It sounds like you just want people to write their wrongs.

Starting point is 01:52:50 Yeah. It's interesting. I do also believe in a lot of grace because we all make mistakes. Like even growing up, you probably know we didn't have YouTube. There was like no phones with cameras on them. Like I made the dumbest mistakes when I was in middle school and high school. Like, and no one was filming it. It wasn't being like posted online everywhere.

Starting point is 01:53:11 Like that just wasn't a thing. allowed to make mistakes, learn from them, grow. I do believe in that. I just, I've seen a lot of people who will make mistakes and then they just do better to not get caught publicly again versus actually fix the problem. And that's where I'm like, wait, me, nope, no, no, time out. No, that's, that's not fixing it. Yeah. No. I can keep going, but I'm sure you have to. cute. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I can literally talk to you guys forever. I know. This is a, you know, every time we have one of these interviews, it's always like, hope we have an interesting conversation. You know, it's like you, we generally have like 90 minute conversations and

Starting point is 01:53:56 yeah, this has been so much fun. And so easy on our part, you to, to have a conversation with you. And so thank you for being so open and allowing us to get to know you better and share with our audience, all your interesting perspective on all things, life cooking, YouTube, you know, things like. like that. Oh, one final question because I wanted to ask you, what is your, what is your point of view on live streaming? I'm just like big picture wise, culturally, you know, speaking to two parents with kids. Like, what is your point of view on live streaming? And do you think it's generally healthy for our mental health? Probably not. Probably not unless you're a very certain personality type. I think that there are maybe a few people where it would be a really good fit for.

Starting point is 01:54:42 And the rest probably not. But it's a really interesting question because it's such a new form of entertainment. Like digital entertainment in general was so new just like 15 years ago. And now like then they did long form, short form and now live streaming. It's like its own genre. And that genre is what I worry about it always is safety. That's the mama bear in me. I just always worry about that.

Starting point is 01:55:12 because I've seen just the worst things happen when people are live streaming. So I worry about like safety because if there's a really popular live streamer and people know all where they're located. If there is anyone, also if the live streamer is mentally well, but maybe one of the fans or somebody who follows them isn't mentally well, then your location is always public and you're very vulnerable and open. And if you don't have the right security in place, you know, then you're opening yourself up to. a lot of safety issues. I think that that... Yeah, that's the really interesting thing. Like, my girlfriend, I Justine, fellow OG,

Starting point is 01:55:53 my blonde little haughty friend who does all tech stuff, she used to live stream and play video games. And when she was live streaming, she wrote about this in her book. Someone swatted her. And she said it was just terrifying. Like, you know, you... How was it?

Starting point is 01:56:07 I feel like that's become a thing. And how does it so easy to call the... Yeah, you can report it. I assume there must be huge consequences to do that, though. There is a, yeah, they can trace it. Yes, absolutely. And they do get in trouble. I think that it's just this weird satisfaction where you're watching someone's

Starting point is 01:56:26 stream and knowing that you've done something where they're going to, you know, get this. But when you say get in trouble, is it like the streaker at a football game who goes to jail for a night and pays a couple thousand dollar fine? I don't think so. I believe it's like prison for 12, 20 years. Yeah, I think it's much more serious. I feel like that's a really big deal. Yeah, I feel like it's much more serious and I would encourage anyone who streams to contact your local law enforcement. That's what we've done to protect ourselves.

Starting point is 01:56:50 We don't even stream, but we've just informed them where we live, who we are, and that if we're ever swatted, we have direct connection with. Give us a call. Let us know. Yeah, they're going to call us first. They're still going to show up, but they're going to call us first and get on. It happens a lot with the gamers who live stream because they're stationary. They're not going anywhere. they're at their computer, they're gaming.

Starting point is 01:57:13 So people for, you know, that get that instant gratification, like that thrill of, you know, that, yeah, of doing that to others. Like knowing that it's coming. Because I would never want to do that. My instincts is like, save the turtles. Like, I'm literally like that, like, like, I'm like trying to like save a bumblebee from falling into our pool. Like, so I'm just, I don't operate that way. But for the people who are into that, I think live streaming can put the live streamer. safety in danger.

Starting point is 01:57:43 So my worry is always for live stream. It's just safety. And I don't know much about the live streamers who are doing it now. I know that YouTube does it on their platform. And then there's also a kick and Twitch. I've just seen the worst behavior from some live streamers who run around. Like the guy who got in a car accident and like kept filming. He kept filming.

Starting point is 01:58:08 And his passenger, his friend who was, this camera guy, he was bleeding out of the head and he was like literally still filming him and checking the views and he's like, the views are going crazy. And like, again, I'm not a psychologist, but that's psychotic. That's like a sociopath. Like, if I was his mother, I don't care what age you are. An Italian mom, I literally would run, I would, I would, I would, I would, Uber my ass down there. I would rip that phone from his hand. I would, never. Oh, never. I have one more question. Do you think the people in charge of these platforms are recognizing some of these risks and putting in the proper guardrails? Like, it seems insane. But, like, there clearly is

Starting point is 01:58:50 some kind of disconnect between, like, putting your own safety at risk, your friends, you know, David Doberk comes to mind, that whole situation where people just, like, lost themselves, you know, and for the sake of views. and I guess money. Assholes will always push the limits for money and power, bottom line. They're always going to take things to the extremist. It can go. So what I think that would help would be leaders of companies, especially on platforms,

Starting point is 01:59:23 who actually enforce their policies. I think that they could do that at any time. And I am hopeful. I really hope that they start to do that more. They're loosening regulation, like the new leader, CEO of YouTube has loosened a lot of the rules. Like, you can cuss more. I think you don't want to say the F word within the first, like, seven seconds of a video. But there's just a lot more looseness, which in some ways I appreciate.

Starting point is 01:59:54 I love freedom. But I also don't like when it turns into danger. Yeah, I mean, there's a whole weed. conversation about, you know, policing speech and things like that. But I think, especially in the creator economy, incentivizing children to put themselves in danger is just, like, yeah, there's just got to be a way to, like, to protect. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, weeds again about it because literally I could it's it's just multifaceted and the live streaming aspect is so it's a new thing and I think that they just keep pushing it to the max to see how

Starting point is 02:00:40 far you can go with views without getting kicked off the platform or what is it a temporary ban or getting sued I think there's different levels that they just keep pushing it for money and it for me it just feels so desperate. There's so many like paths to success. You can sprint, you can jog, you can do a marathon. Like there's just so many paths that I feel sad for people who choose those kind of pass because it's so destructive and it's just miserable. You really are. You're so interesting to talk to and pick your brain. I feel like you're just a wealth knowledge. You just, I mean, we've learned about wombat's poop being squared.

Starting point is 02:01:27 I didn't think that was going to come from today, and I'll never forget it. You know, so many get-togethers. That's our new fun fact that I know. Oh, my gosh, you guys. We got to get together and cook. We'd love to get together. I could host like a dinner night. We could bring a dish and we could have the weirdest fun dinner conversation.

Starting point is 02:01:48 Not to put you on the spot. And if you say no, I'll totally edit this out. But would you ever want to do an Ask Nick episode where you come on and give relationship advice from my audience with me? I feel like you'd be really good at them. Oh my gosh, I would love to. I will give them the best advice that I have. Great. The best things that I've ever learned.

Starting point is 02:02:07 Okay, right on. Okay, right on. You guys. This was so much fun. The time flew by. Like, what has happened? I know. It really did.

Starting point is 02:02:15 We blamed. Rosanna, this has been so much fun. Blink. Blink. Same. Ditto. Right back at it. I usually say, where can people find you, follow you, but I feel like everyone. Rosanna Pansino on everything.

Starting point is 02:02:25 Everyone knows. There you go. Two of our podcast, Ridiculous. We'll be out maybe in a couple weeks. We'll see. Congratulations on all your success.

Starting point is 02:02:33 You truly have pioneered your way where you are. You are a stand-up woman, boss-ass bitch, and I am very grateful to have met you and had this conversation with you. So thank you for coming.

Starting point is 02:02:45 Oh, my gosh. I'm literally going to be turning round now. That was great.

The Viall Files - E1081 - Going Deeper with Rosanna Pansino

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