The Viall Files - E1086 Ask Nick - My Husband Kisses Other Women for Work

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

Our first caller needs advice on how she can manage kissing other women… for work. The second caller is in a crazy love triangle and can't decide which one to choose. And our third caller's mother  tried to talk her into divorcing her husband. "Don't be so easily convinced that you're wrong about how you feel." Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick's Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with "Texting Office Hours" in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Coop Sleep Goods - Let Coop help you show up feeling rejuvenated and ready to go. Get 20% off your first order and try Coop risk-free with a 100-night sleep-better guarantee at https://coopsleepgoods.com/viall  Tonal - Right now, Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase with promo code VIALL Article Furniture - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://article.com/viall and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout David Protein - Don't just take my word for it – go grab one for yourself. Head to Walmart today to try a bar or stock up on 4CTs of your favorite flavors, like Blueberry Pie and Salted Peanut Butter, sold exclusively at Walmart. Check out https://Walmart.com to find a store near you! Timestamps: (01:30) - Caller One (43:40) - Caller Two (1:08:00) - Caller Three Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @izeweaver

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Let's get to our first caller, but not before you go on and give us a follow. How's it going? Good. I'm Kaylee, I'm 34. And I'm trying to figure out how to navigate my husband, kissing other women for work. Okay. I'm assuming he's an actor? Yes. Correct. I guess this tell me about the relationship. So we've been together nine years, married for five. He got into this space last year. So when we met, he always wanted to pursue acting. He was a professional model that was his

bread and butter. So that was always his big dream was to just do movies. So finally at this point in our marriage, like I said last year, he finally got into it and made a break. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of where we're at right now. I think a lot of people listening have imagined how someone like you does it, right? In fact, you know, Nallie and I were the new Jacob Allorty and Margo. I heard you guys on the podcast talking about it, what, like two days ago, it was like, oh my gosh, the timing of that. Yeah. Or it's like, how do they do it?

You know, it's like they really, yeah, so you heard that episode. It's just like, yeah, I was like kind of giggling to myself listening to it. You know, because you really got to have some thick skin, you know, not so much even in the movies, but when they promote these movies and seem to really lean into the on-screen chemistry that, you know, they want the audience to have and things like that. And it must be very, very difficult. So I guess I'm curious, like, you know, your relationship started when he was a model and wasn't acting. you were aware of his dreams.

So that's all valid. Now he's got this break. And I imagine, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but like at first it probably thought like as something you might not have to worry about. Not that you didn't believe in your husband, but it's like, as you know, it's like, it's a tough business to break into and et cetera, et cetera. And I'm assuming like his first role like required him to kiss someone. Yeah.

And he actually, for modeling, he's done kissing before for like jewelry brands, you know, for commercials and stuff. So that was like a first little baby hurdle. I was like, okay, that's a little weird, but okay, you know, I'd rather have you get the job than not. And then it progressed. It kind of like fast forwarded pretty quickly into the role. The kind of niche that he's in, it's, it's sexualized, you know,

so it's not like a PG type situation. Without giving too much away. Like, what do you mean? I know. I'm trying to like dance around it. Like the whole concept, it's very guy saves girl. I mean, is this being cast. in roles where he's like a love interest basically?

Yeah, like he's always the lead in these types of roles. It's always the guy, the girl. Yeah. You know, there's always an intimate scene plus more like in everyone, essentially. Like he's not getting like an army role, you know? Sure. What conversations have you guys had around this? I mean, because at the other days it's going to come down to how you guys communicate, you know, and whether.

Right. We've talked, we've had, I can't tell you how many conversations about it. So the communication is there. Okay. And he tries to explain, like, the intricacies of it. He's like, it's really just like a smoke and mirrors thing. And when I see it, obviously, it doesn't feel that way. But to me, it feels like, like, that sacredness that we had, getting married, kind of got stolen from me, in a sense.

Like, I know he was pursuing acting, but you don't really, your mind can't kind of grasp, like, oh, my husband's body isn't just for me. It's going to be used with another woman. Yeah. No, I get it. How does he describe it to you? He's described it as obviously being more uncomfortable than anything. He's like, everybody's uncomfortable doing it. You know, there's a whole crew around us. He's like, you kind of prefer it to be like before lunch, you know? So he's like, he's giving me some like light insight into it, which I appreciate.

I did some acting. And I had a kissing scene with a woman. It was super awkward, you know, it was not in any way. And I was single at the time, which makes it a little easier, right? Well, I guess that was kind of my point, not really. I mean, you know, I guess, you know, I only say I was single because I guess there's a world in which I guess if I felt something and I wanted to pursue something, I guess being single, I could, suppose. but I was very concerned about being professional, right? And I didn't want to look like I was enjoying it. You know, like I didn't.

Right, yeah. I was very self-conscious about it. And, you know, it was my scene wasn't like it was more of a comedy show. So it wasn't like some big like sex scene. It wasn't sensual. And I didn't have to like lean in that way. So a little different. But I just, I do remember, obviously,

because it's my first time doing it, just how how weird it was and how unromantic it was and how it felt like licking an elbow. Yeah, that's a good explanation. I mean, that sounds good. That feels good to hear. You know, but as you know, like, I mean, there have been people who have fallen for each other, you know, on set and things like that. Right. Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Brad and Anjali, who, Brad Pitt.

They're like the ultimate, like, nightmare. Right? You know, it's like, oh, you love Jennifer Aniston, you know, and things like that. Yeah, I mean, so like it's, you know, I mean, I feel like I, I don't know how much help I'm being here or how much help I can be other than like, I'm curious, like, would this be, have you guys ever done couples therapy? We did before we got married, but no, not like consistently. I just like, I think this could be something where, because, you know, these conversations, are very hard to navigate. And I think you, it sounds like you both have acknowledged, like, this is a weird situation. And you're juggling this like, okay, well, I don't want to stop my husband from pursuing his

dreams. And I want to be happy for him at the same time, also feeling this weird insecurity that's normal. And how do I bring it up without making him feel like he's doing something wrong where he, you know, it's just like, you know, this added pressure. and, you know, is he going to grow to resent me and things like that? And then maybe he's just not sure how to talk about it because he doesn't want to trigger you. And then, you know, I think in these situations in relationships, and when I say this situation, I mean, just kind of like something where you want to address,

but you don't know how to address it and you want to give your partner the benefit of the doubt and yada, yada, I think it's very common for people in relationships to, like, avoid it and not say anything. And then you're stuck internalizing your feelings and it snowballs. And he's doing the same thing. And I just wonder of like a good couples therapist. Not that like, you know, you have to see every week, but like a safe space that you guys can go into and just say,

can we just talk through this and have someone kind of guide that conversation, give you an opportunity to speak, make sure your husband's listening, vice versa, and just, you know, kind of playing that referee so that you guys can like, open up about the things that, you know, you're just a little insecure about.

You hear me talk about connection, right? And so my guess is your big fear is like maintaining this connection you guys have while allowing your husband to pursue his dream. And so it's really just about making sure if you guys can focus on, like this is a weird thing we're doing, right? But how do I make sure that my husband and I stay connected throughout this in these periods of like when he has to go do the, this thing that makes me really uncomfortable, you know, because it doesn't really matter what people

say or, you know, like, if your husband gets to the point where it's, like, famous and people are following them and it can get kind of weird. Which I don't, I never wanted like the, yeah, I never wanted like the fame thing. Like, I'm not in his industry at all. So, and he, he actually, the reason I, I love him is because he's, one of the reasons is because he's, he's not about being famous. You know, he's just, he generally has a passion for acting. I think, I think, if he, he, wanted to be famous, I would have, you know, we wouldn't have gotten this far. But not that it's a bad thing, but, but, but I mean, if he really continues to pursue his dream, I'm assuming there's a chance he could become more well-known. Yeah, of course. There's always that chance.

Like the acting gigs he's getting now, like who's, who's seeing, who's watching this content? It's a very niche content at the moment. It's kind of a space where, you know, with the strike and everything, that world's kind of been struggling. a bit. So people are kind of navigating into this space because it's quick. And I'm trying not to just tell too much about it. But it's like fast paced and like easy money essentially. To your point, like trying to navigate this. I'm trying to to give myself some sense of like security. I'm trying to like establish boundaries for us. But I also want them to be like healthy boundaries. So what are some of the boundaries you've tried to establish? In this like world,

like the acting world you know people bond really quickly when they're on set together the boundary I wanted to draw for us I was like hey when a project's done like you leave work at work I don't necessarily feel comfortable with you continue in conversations with your female

co-stars post project I was like I feel like that my concern is like the blurred line between professional and then our like personal marriage on the other hand. Is he having a hard time honoring that boundary? Yeah because he push back on me. I was like, I was like, I think once the job's done, like, only because

the situation is so unconventional, I feel like our responses are in a reactions to it need to kind of be unconventional. Because if it was a normal coworker, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But my brain goes to like, wait, no, you've, you've kissed this woman, you know, you've been physically intimate. So I'm like, adding a layer of communication post work. I'm like, that makes, that feels like, I don't know how to navigate that. Is it just kissing or is you doing more? No, it's just kissing, but it's like, we have, the line that I drew, I was like, no, absolutely no tongue. Like, both actors can choose to do that, but it's not something that's like, it's not typically done. Okay.

Between two actors, unless they both agree to it. Gotcha. So that's like a no-no for us. And then obviously, like, genitals and that whole deal is a no-no for us. So it's kissing, but it's like full-body kissing, I guess. Gotcha. Back to your boundary. I'm still a little confused why he can't honor that. I was confused too.

Like is he saying, okay, they do the project, project's done. He wants to what? Be able to text this person, maintain a friendship, have a cup of coffee with? What is he trying to do? So definitely no texting. They don't, they doesn't share his personal number. It's more like a, like it'll be a DM. Like, let's say the project comes out. And one of it's always, he's never an issueing conversation. It's always the other co-star. So she'll like, she'll be like, oh, this, our project's out. We're getting good reviews or it'll be like an inside joke of like, ha, this was hilarious.

So it's all like pertaining to work. And that was his defense. He's like, he was like, babe, it's completely in the same vein of work. It's never an out of pocket conversation. And it's only, it's the occasional DM. kind of bonding, I guess, over this project or maybe some excitement around it finally coming out? Yeah, it's been that. And then other times it's been, hey, did you hear that they're casting for this?

Or, hey, did this production team reach out to you regarding this? So it is pertaining to work. And then there's been times where one of this co-stars, like, DMing him. And she's like, hey, can you, like, bring me a charger? And then I'm kind of, and it's as simple as that it is, I'm kind of, back, I'm like, could you message someone that's like not married for a charger? You know what I mean? There's like, there's how many people on set?

So it's not inappropriate, but it's kind of like I'm trying to find that boundary of like what's normal, what's not, you know? Do you feel like your husband recognizes the sensitivity and your insecurities around this and is really trying to be proactive to ensure that you feel. feel comfortable? I think he's trying his best. And I think where we bet heads is when I, for example, we had an issue last night, ironically. So I guess I'll give it as an example, because this tends to be our like go around. So we have like full phone transparency. Like, we don't keep our phones from each other. It's very, I don't know, grab my phone. You could look, whatever, whatever, you know, we're just open about that. Okay. Especially considering if he's choosing to, hey, I'm going to communicate in the workspace. And regarding work,

with other women. I was like, okay, let's just keep our phones out. There's no secrets. There's no, you know, I have his phone, and a message pops up from a previous co-star he just worked with. She's basically saying, like, hey, did this production team reach out to you about this project, or are they kind of just, like, screwing with me? And then he responds, like, oh, no, like, they reached out to me, but I'm kind of waiting

on the, I'm choosing to wait on the rewrite. And then she's basically saying, she's basically saying, oh, yeah, they offered, they up the price for me. They offered more, but I'm not sure given like the script. Because I guess the specific script was very sexual, even more so than the standard. They're going back and forth messaging about whether or not they're going to do it. Well, she tells him like, hey, just, hey, let me know if you choose to do it because I want to do it with someone that I've like worked with before. And so like, I'm looking at that.

And then I got heated and triggered because I'm like, wait, so you're basically making like a work decision with another woman. Yeah, yeah. And you guys are talking about as, as, the context is a sexual scene, which obviously is like a trigger point for me. Yeah. And so my point of you, I was trying to explain to him last night. I was like, I think that should be between your agent, the producers, and your wife. I don't think that's something you need to talk about with this other woman that you're going

to be having this sexual scene with. I just, I think that's crossing a boundary for me. And then he got upset because I think he feels attacked. And he's like, but I respected our marriage. There's nothing I said that was inappropriate. And I was like, no, of course. I know you didn't say anything inappropriate. I'm just trying to explain to you.

Like, this is a boundary that I feel needs to be drawn. And you're communicating it like this? You're sounding now. I think, can I say that for it or no? Yeah, you can say whatever you want. Okay, okay. I think I fuck up because the way I approach him comes off as an attack. And so I think he instantly puts his guard up and assumes that I'm kind of telling him,

like, oh, you did wrong. Like, you fucked out. Well, the reason I ask is when you're talking to me, you sound reasonable and you sound like you're like, hey, I'm a little triggered right now and let's talk about it. But I don't know if that's how you're actually communicating it as opposed to like that's, you know, if the first words out of your mouth is, well, that's fucked up. Yeah. Then he, then it makes sense why he's triggered. Because that sounds like an accusation. You did something fucked up. That's how he's going to probably hear it, right? Right. As opposed to, hey, that made me a little uncomfortable, can we talk about it, is more of an invitation to have a conversation and less of an accusation. And that's why I brought up couples therapy because so much of you guys dealing with this

is going to be like, it's such a sensitive topic and even for a married couple, you're going to feel triggered. You have the right to feel triggered. You don't want to accuse him. He's already on the defense, and you guys are just like, you're spending all this energy trying

to communicate how you feel and have your feelings being validated while simultaneously trying to say it the right way so he doesn't feel triggered and when you guys do this on your own as this as human beings like once you guys trigger each other then you get in this kind of fight or flight mode

mentally and it's just like the conversation goes off the rails and the next thing you know you've been fighting for 15 minutes and you're like it's not what I wanted to happen I just wanted to talk to you and this is like oh my God we're doing this thing right? Yeah. And that's where I think a good couples therapist can be really helpful. Because like they got no sting in the game, but they know that the goal, the goal is for you guys to

connect, communicate, stay on the same page. And when someone gets triggered, someone's there to be like, all right, right, let's pause. And they can maybe help relay the information because they're not going to get triggered. They probably hear what you're saying. And then they can slow down your husband who maybe needs to take some moment. You know what I'm saying? Like it really almost requires a referee. It's, it does, these are conversations are very difficult to do, you know, because you, you're here, you're trying to recreate the conversation you had last night with your husband. And I'm kind of like, okay, giving a little note, oh, you could have said this, you could have said that.

It's just really hard to do, you know, like in the future. But yeah, like how you start a conversation and argument goes a long way, you know? It's like, you say the wrong thing to start it. And then like, that conversation never has a chance. Like once he's triggered, then it's like, again, he's kind of in this defense, fight or flight mode. And Hismar focuses on, like, defending what he did or didn't do, you know? Right. That's all he was doing. And that's why I wanted your opinion from a man's brain, you know, because we're like arguing last night. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's like,

I was going crazy. I was like, you do not get it. But he was trying, I was like, you're your biggest fan right now because you're defending your honor. And I was like, that's not what, I'm not saying you did anything wrong, so you're defending your honor for nothing, you know, I'm trying to tell you. Yeah, you're making him feel like he is. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't talk to him as nice as I talked to you just now, but it wasn't really bad. It was kind of like I was visibly upset. Yeah. So like anyway, he knows you. He can read your energy. Sometimes you might not have to say anything. And he can tell you're upset and he can get defensive. Because I, you know, like this is a perfect example why I can appreciate why this is such a difficult conversation to have. Because I get your point of view and I kind of get his, right? Like it makes sense.

why another actor who has a familiar, you know, as a woman, I'm sure you can appreciate this other woman's, hey, I mean, work or not, I'm, you know, part of my work has to do this weird thing. And, and there's a lot of weird guys out there. And here I have this coworker who, he's a professional. He does, he's not weird about it. You know, we're doing a scene and I don't think he's trying to fuck me, you know?

Like, he's just working, you know, and that does, that makes me feel safe. It's a weird thing. Even me saying that, it probably feels weird for you because you're like, it's not my husband's job to make another woman feel safe, you know? Right, right, exactly. Like having that access, like so many women having access to my husband, not only just like a simple DM, but like you're kissing my husband.

You have access to my husband's body. It's like, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, you weren't cutting me off. Go ahead. I think the reason why I found love with him is because he's, he's. is so professional like and you know being with someone for so long you see like how they move when you socialize and he's so respectful of women and if we're in a like at a party or in a room like he's always looking like is my wife good like I'm gonna pick I'm gonna choose to have like

intentional space between this woman that's talking to me you know he's very like self-aware and respectful to our marriage and so I know that he carries himself with the utmost professionalism and respect to our marriage because he values, I know that he values me. What you can probably do to help yourself is to lean on that, right? So like, it really is about controlling your thoughts and it's easy to let unravel when your insecurities come up, right? But here you just spent the past minute or two describing how your husband carries himself throughout the world in public around other women, right? Very self-aware, aware of his surroundings, I am sure you appreciate the fact that he doesn't make women feel uncomfortable with his presence.

He's not looking up and down or whatever. You know, like there's a lot of guys, married guys in general, that aren't like that, who aren't self-aware and go a step further and take advantage of the fact when their, when their wives or partners aren't around and kind of play fast and loose with like, oh, I wasn't flirting. I was just being friendly and whatever. I didn't do anything wrong, you know, and kind of playing that game, you know.

Offering to buy a drink. Well, I just offered her a drink. I was just being nice, you know. It's like, no, I don't, you don't do that, you know? Like, it's, for me, yeah, it's my job to not do anything that could be misconstrued as an invitation of interest for me to anyone else. I would rather have every other woman I interact with think I'm a rude, asshole, then think that I am flirting with them. But it sounds like your husband carries himself

that way, right? So then here you have this situation where this woman DMs your husband and the tone of the message sounds like, yeah, that hell like, you make me feel safe and that makes me feel good. And if I do this, I want it to be with you. And that feels weird because you're like, that's not his job to make her feel safe, right? And then you make it. about this woman and this perceived connection that you're worried about. To help yourself would be like, but I like that my husband makes women feel this way. It's nothing more than how I've seen my husband operate when I'm with him, which is women around him. Because, you know, you know what I'm saying? You know, as a woman that like sometimes you're just around guys and they're just fucking

weird. They look at you and look, you know, their eye contact is not where it needs to be or they're just like they're just fucking weird and they kind of test those boundaries to get a reaction and like a women's and women intuition they pick up on that and it's just like it's like an icky feeling you know and that's often in like a normal professional environment where like they're not supposed to be like these lines aren't supposed to be blurred right so it's extra important that your husband demonstrates his professionalism in this atmosphere and so just reminding yourself why she you know, like just knowing that her intentions make sense. Yeah, I never thought of it that way.

So that's a good, like, reframe. So that could help yourself out. Just kind of knowing, it's like, like, it makes sense because I know my husband, and it makes sense why someone would reach out to him that way. Because he's nothing, nothing, my husband's never shown me that I should be worried when he's, when I'm not there. The petty side of me comes out and I'm like, fuck off.

Like literally ask anybody else. Yeah, I mean, the, you know, can you get me a charger? I get what you're just like, yeah. But in that moment. Like you're a big girl. Get your own charger. In that moment, see, like, your husband could just like ignore that message. But he's not an asshole. He's like, I'm not going to like, he's like, I'll just respond like, yeah. I'll bring one, you know, like. And I hate to use like, oh, he's a nice guy. But professionally, you just want to be nice to people. So he's like, I'm not going to blatantly. Yeah. But you see, that's where that's where I feel like you could be a little picky where he could go the extra mile. And I don't think him not, he could play it off like he didn't

see it. He could make an excuse like he's unavailable right now. He could just like, you know, eventually to your point and it's just like getting into the weeds here, without anyone having misguided intentions, she could just get comfortable asking him for little favors like that, right? without thinking she's doing anything wrong. And you would still have the right to be like, eh, babe, that's fine someone else. Mm-hmm. And the more your husband says yes

to her asking for favors, the more comfortable she is going forward asking for those favors. So even though your husband doesn't want to be a dick, and there might be a couple scenarios where it would be weird for him to be like, yeah, sure, no, yeah, I'm right here, you know. But he could, without,

he doesn't have to say anything to her, he could just find ways to avoid being helpful or again make up some of excuse and go the extra mile where it doesn't come across as rude to her. He's just unavailable so much so that she just stops asking him to do those little things because he just never seems to be available to do it.

Yeah. See, like in these moments, what you probably need is to find the thing that is a little bit of a ridiculous ask on your part. And maybe you can even acknowledge it maybe it's a little petty of, me. But you want him to be like, no problem, babe. If it makes you feel better, I will do that. And as long as the ask doesn't put him in a weird situation at work where his coworkers are like, why is he being weird or why is he being mean to me or like, why is he being unnecessarily rude to

me? You know, he doesn't need to do that, right? He could just like, not do it. You know, be like, oh, sorry, I'm busy right now. Can you ask someone else? Not reply, not see it, not get to the message, you know, oh, oh, sorry, I didn't see it. I'd been off my phone. He can play dumb long enough, and then she would be none the wiser. And he's doing it for you, as petty as it might be, you have the right as his wife to, like, be petty and ask him to do things that, like, he thinks they're silly. And he's your husband, so he's going to do it, you know? And I think it's like that that little thing is probably all you need. It's like the small, yeah, it's the smallest thing, and I'll kind of doubt myself because it's really important to

for me and for us to have like a healthy marriage, you know, so we're not going to try to like, I don't know, create some toxicity in this space. So I'll have self-doubt and then I came from a very like emotional abusive, just cheating relationship before him for a long time. So that self-doubt will come in my brain and I'm like, wait, is this like past trauma that is coming up or is this the new me but that still has a boundary? And it's hard to trust myself to decipher like what's what, is it both? Yeah, probably a little bit of both. I mean, I don't think you have to be cheated on

to feel weirded out by your husband kissing other women, even if it's for acting. You know, it's a normal response. And so you're doing your best, being mindful of your past, while still like trying to find the words to communicate a valid insecurity. So I'm not as bad as I think I am, maybe. No, it doesn't sound like you're bad at all.

If anything, it just sounds like maybe you're delugeeful. livery is a little off, or more likely, you guys are both trying to have a difficult conversation that you're not equipped to have, and you're both easily triggered. You're describing a guy who really wants to do right by his wife while pursuing his dream. And he's like, doesn't really have the answer because, like, at the end of the day, he does have to kiss these people. And he's really gone out of his way to be professional, and it doesn't seem to be good enough for you. And then it sounds like to him, like you're asking him to just do these weird things that it's like, well, you want me to be a, like, you just want me to be a dick to these people or, you know,

because I can see why he's like, so I just have to like avoid, I can't talk to her. Like, that's weird, you know, like, sorry, I can't talk to you. And I'll try to tell him, I'm like, but you guys don't work at like Starbucks together, you know. You guys, I'm like, you guys were smooching each other like 24 hours ago. So his dynamics are going to different. What if he replied something like, yeah, I'm considering it too. Obviously, I have to talk to my wife about this. Oh, love that. You would love that.

Yeah, that's hot. Why hasn't he? Yeah, but why? And he hasn't done that? Because that would have been something like my, you know, it's like, to your point, like just finding little ways. And again, not assuming that she has any alternative motives or things like that. But like, yeah, it's hot when your partner goes out of their way just to remind who's

ever listening, whoever is around, whether you're, he's at work. acting or you're out at the bars. The game drop. Hey, can I buy you a drink? Like, sure, my husband really appreciate saving some money. You know, just like that, hey, I am spoken for, I'm taken, I'm not available to you. There's someone else I need to talk to. And I imagine when she's reaching out to him talking about work, checking in with him,

saying, please let me know, you feel left out of that conversation. Yeah. And him saying, you know, he can say whatever, not say, whatever he wants, but it sounds like he could probably say everything he already said, but just include, well, I'm definitely going to have to talk to my wife. But yeah, I'll let you know what we decide. That would, like, go far for me. Like, emotionally, I would feel obviously much safer. It's just a clear, it's so clear for him to do that. Yeah, that would make me feel fantastic and a lot safer, essentially. Yeah. And so maybe suggest that, you know, you know, because you're basically saying,

Like, listen, I, it's like you want to be able to say to them, I don't want you to always feel like you're doing something wrong and that anytime you talk to your women co-stars that I'm going to be pissed. But as much as it makes sense, and I feel like that would totally make sense when she's like literally saying, hey, have you gotten this script? What do you think about it? Are you going to do it? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That, like, it would make total sense, you know, regardless of what the profession is. You know, because like to your point, That just makes any partner feel good because they feel included in the conversation. And they're letting the people know that we are a united front and we make decisions together, right? I'm sure you feel that extra sense of security because, like, he's just planning the seed and suggesting that whatever we talk about, he's going to talk about with his wife. Right. You know? And the more he can do that and echo your name and talk about you. And maybe he already does when he's on set, like that would give you a sense of security that you need.

and that's there. And like the industry itself obviously is like the kiss of death for marriages, probably. And then I think reality TV is if not before it or right behind it. Yeah, it's up there. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I just have like that preemptive anxiety and kind of overprotectiveness of us because I know the odds of that are high when it kind of evolves into something bigger.

So I'm just like on guard, I guess. but I do want to ask you about like, this is another interesting topic. We're guarding this. I know like some actors watch, they choose to watch intimate scenes that their partner's doing and then some don't. And the space that I wanted to approach it, I don't like an elephant in the room.

Like I wanted full transparency about it. So I always leaned into it. I always wanted like, no, of course, like I'll watch it. And he kind of communicated with me like, you know, that's not necessary. Like you don't need to watch it. I totally understand. Well, I don't know if there's a right or wrong way.

I mean, what do you feel most comfortable with? It's uncomfortable watching, but... Why would you watch? It sounds to me like you would watch to make sure you don't notice something you shouldn't notice. I don't know. I think transparency makes me feel more secure than my imagination ever could.

Yeah, but I mean, if your husband's a good actor, he's supposed to look like he wants to fuck her. Right. Yeah, but then I also think, like, too, because I'm sure there's got to be a difference between, actually being intimate with your spouse and then putting on a show. Maybe there's not, I guess to your point, depending on how good you are. I mean, here, put this reality, when I was the bachelor, right, it's, you know, the reality is,

you're really not into most of the people you meet, right? And as the bachelor, you really just, like, you're trying to survive and get through it. And a lot of the women you are interacting with will get nervous, and when they don't know what to say, they just make out with you, right? And that is very hard to do, right? And then you usually end the season in a relationship, and then you have to watch it back. And most of those interactions,

first of all, half the people's names you don't remember. You are literally required to fake feelings, right? Because, like, if you had it your way, you'd be like, can we just send them all home? Because I know I'm not interested in all of them. I only just like one. And I want to focus on that.

But that's not the show. You can't do that. You kind of have to, like, you kind of have to pretend a little bit, you know? You have to act a little bit, right? And even though that's just like, you're just like, it was always you, I only liked you, I didn't really like them, you know, honestly, like, couldn't stand her. And like, that was a really uncomfortable moment for me.

And then yet she watches it back. And it's kind of like, but you fucking told me you hated them. They're playing love music in the background. It looks like a romantic scene. I'm saying things I don't mean, you know, and I'm leading them out. you know, because that's part of the gig and very difficult for her to watch. Understandably so. So unless you really want to and you're like, you're totally, to me, it sounds like maybe

you shouldn't watch that stuff because it's only going to like play with your brain and play with your insecurities. And unless you are really appreciating your husband's craft and you just are really proud of them and it doesn't bother you and you really want to support him, maybe don't watch it because again, it's only going to play with your brain. and you're going to be like, well, you don't,

like, you look like you are really into her, you know? Yeah, and that makes sense. I've gotten that feedback from family and friends. In my mind,

I was trying to avoid, like a wedge because I felt like that would have been a wedge not kind of leaning in, but yeah, you're right. Maybe I'll table it for now.

Anything else I can help you out with? I think that was pretty much it. Okay. Was this helpful? No, it was definitely helpful. That reframe that you gave me as far as,

like the messages back and forth. That really helped. I didn't get that point of view before. Yeah. I mean, listen, if you trust your husband, job aside, it sounds like you feel like you have a really good guy and you really like who you married and you really like how he carries himself as a man and how he makes other women feel. And that makes you feel good. And that's really important to remind yourself, that's who you married and that's who he is. And as much, you're not you married. And that's much as you can, give him that benefit of the doubt and remind him, that's how you think of him, right? Because where his defensiveness comes in is you doubting his character, you know, and you're doubting his intentions. When he's already trying not to appease you and do the right

thing, obviously these situations bring up uncharted territory and bring up situations where like, that just feels wrong. And I think that can go a long way. to just remind him that you really do appreciate those ways in which he carries himself. And you are grateful to have that. When you see that message or hear about the message, instead of it being like, that's fucked up, just be like, okay, I don't know if I should be bothered, but I'm a little bothered. Can we talk about this?

And just try, it's just like, again, if you can reframe that conversation to like, can we work through this and talk about it because I'm a little bothered and it's probably a me thing, but can we talk about it? And can we find a way for me to make me feel comfortable? And it sounds like he's the type of guy who's like, how can I make you feel comfortable? As opposed to you listening all of these, well, you're not, you shouldn't be allowed to talk to anyone outside of work. Clearly some situations are coming up where he's just like he feels like I have to be a weird, rude guy without explaining myself to these people is probably how he's internalizing it. And it sounds like he could just do a little things that would make you feel a little bit more secure. Like, again,

saying totally down, let me check with. I, you know, I'm definitely going to have to talk to my wife and obviously talk to my team. I'll let you know what we decide. Yeah, no, I think you nailed it. I think you pretty summed it. You summed it up perfectly. And I do think, again, a couple's therapist would go a long way when discussing these things because you can talk to me and I could offer you that advice and then three days from now something can come up, you feel triggered. And then again, all it takes to have a bad conversation is starting that conversation with the wrong energy and the wrong intensity. And if there's no in there to play mediator, then you guys this snowball. And then that's where you feel more disconnected.

You feel like you're not on the same page. It feels adversarial. And you can feel that way, even though both people don't want that, but it started off on the wrong foot. Yeah, exactly. And I guess there's some like ICs or intimacy coordinators that actually do counseling for people that are in the industry for married couples. So yeah, it's definitely something we'd both do in the future. And you're just letting him know. Like, listen, I'm really proud of you. And I think it's amazing you've pursued this dream. And I really appreciate you going out of your way to make me feel safe. And I know sometimes my insecurities might be frustrating. But so I, I appreciate you always being attentive to that. And little things like that in between can go a long way.

Then it makes it feel like when your insecurities do come up, it's coming from a good place as opposed to like, she's mad again. I can't do anything right. Right. And things like that. And doesn't she know that I love her and doesn't she know that I would never do that? And like, what more can I do to prove to her? Definitely coming from that place a little bit. But it's not to say that you can't do a little bit more. And I think, like I said, it's that it's finding that common ground where you can be a little petty and you can ask him to do something. Maybe it's a little trivial.

And you both know it's a little trivial. And instead of him saying, well, that's petty. I don't know why I need to do that. He's this more like, easy. I can do that. And if that makes you feel good, I'm happy to do it. it because like I that's all I really care about. And yeah, I'll just avoid these little like tasks in favors that she's asking me to do short of like weirdly saying no and it just being weird

that I said no. But like for the most part, he could just not read that message. He can say he's busy. He could just not do those things. And she can start asking other people without him being like, listen, I can't do that stuff for you because my wife won't let me. Yeah. Yeah. Damn, you're good. I mean, I've been listening to you for a while, but like, yeah, you like nailed everything on the head. All right. Well, I'm glad I could help. This was definitely a trickier one. Yeah, I was interested.

But, yeah, I'll definitely have him listen to the episode. I think just your response in viewpoint two, I think he'll feel really good about it. It's like you were inside his head. He knows you're calling in. I'm going to tell him, like, after the call. And then I'm just going to like tell him, like, I'll send it to you. so you can listen. I think it'll help us for sure.

Yeah, I mean, it's a tricky thing. But focus on your connection and like that. And that's to be the language you use. I just want us to stay connected. And I don't want you chasing your dreams to cause us to feel disconnected. And these are situations that are just like, and again, when people don't know what to say, they often don't say anything. And that's when couples can really lose that connection because you're just like,

I don't know what to say. And then you kind of both unraveling your brain and assume the word. and not give your partner the benefit of the doubt, and that's what you want to try to avoid. Yeah, definitely. All right. Yeah, yeah, I really appreciate you, and congrats on Twins.

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. That's awesome. Yeah, and thank the household for me too as well. I will. All right. Take care. Thanks a lot.

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that's article.com slash v i a l for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more article makes it effortless article makes it effortless to create a stylish long-lasting home at an unbeatable price good how are you my name is ali i'm 23 um and i'm in a crazy love triangle right now all right well tell me about it so i had a three-year relationship with somebody that i met in college and then I was on a girl's trip, and then the day before we broke up, I met this guy, we'll name him Ben. And so I've been seeing him for four-ish months. And I'm also seeing somebody in my apartment complex at the same time.

And I think I'm exclusive to both of them. Well, how does that happen? Well, clearly you're not exclusive with either of them. Yeah. But they don't know that. They don't know that. So the boy that I met in New York, we were going on like pretty consistent dates. And then we, he texted me and he was like, we need to talk. So I go, okay. So we talk. And then he's like, I can't do this. Like, I've never had a girlfriend before. I'm kind of freaking out. And I was like, okay, like, do you want to just pause on this? Like, what's going on? And so he said, like, yes, like, let's break things off for now. But like, I could, I don't know, like, I could come back in three days and like this could be a terrible decision. So then we broke things off. And literally. the moment that I hung up the phone, this guy, my apartment complex, asked me out.

Okay. So then I go on that date, and then the New York guy comes back. So now I'm seeing both of them, but I don't know. Well, hold on. You brushed right past a really important. It's like, so how many days until he came back? It was not even 12 hours. Okay.

And then you, but you said yes to that date right away. I said yes to the date right away. And he went on a date that night. And I went on a Z eight. And how'd that date go? It was fantastic. Like we talked, it was like four hours. All right.

Did you hook up? No, we haven't hooked up. Okay. You didn't hook up? And then 12 hours later, guy A reaches back out and says what? He said, do you want me to read the text? Sure. Okay.

Took me less than 24 hours to realize that I'm stupid and I owe you an apology. I get it if you don't want to talk to me anymore, but you were right about what you said last night. It's not often you find a connection like this. Okay. And you said what? So I said, you're an idiot. Like, we knew this. Like, why, why cut it off?

So. But you didn't say I had a really nice date last night? No. Why not? I did not bring that up. Why not? Because I don't want, I don't know if like, I don't want to freak. Like, he's never had a girlfriend before.

Well, he's not, he wasn't your girlfriend. You guys weren't. True. We weren't together. Yeah. Not only were you not together. He literally broke things off and panicked. Yeah.

You had an amazing opportunity there that you, you passed on. Yeah. And I said this before. There's a lot of things I hope people who listen to this show learn. But for the ladies out there especially, anytime you have the opportunity to remind potential suitors that you are sought after and not to be taken for granted and that if they don't want you, other people will,

is a great opportunity. And it will never backfire in the long run, right? Yeah. Now, I imagine you didn't tell him because you didn't want to upset him. Maybe you felt like you did something wrong, but you didn't. But more importantly, you didn't want to upset him. True. By not telling him, one, now you kind of, you lied to him. You weren't honest with him. And then you got yourself into the situation where you don't know what to do. And you've lost your power a little bit because you did nothing wrong. Okay. And then you acted like you did something wrong. And instead of being like, well, This might be hard to hear, but like that night, I got asked out. And obviously I was upset. And I said yes, you know, it's like, you know, and he can might, you know, he could have been like, well, I guess we didn't have the connection that we thought I had. You could be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Like, I can be sad and still be capable of going on a date, you know. Like, you weren't even my boyfriend. And I, you know, like, what do you want me to do? I wasn't trying to respect the relationship we didn't have, you know, like. You know, if he was like, oh, I guess what we had didn't mean anything, it's like, well, you literally proved that to me when you told me you didn't want to keep hanging out. So why are you, why are you gaslighting me? You know, like, you had so many opportunities to like standing your power and not apologize for doing nothing wrong. And also remind him that if you take me for granted, there are people literally lining up waiting for me to be available. True. And I just like, any time in the future you have to, especially when you do nothing wrong. Never apologize for being desired or pursued as a single person, especially when you're just dating these men. And until they want to lock it down, so to speak, or commit to you or make a sacrifice or work through whatever nerves they have or.

And no doubt, it was like, you know, he was panicking because he really liked. you but wasn't sure, I don't know, like, of like, is she the one? Am I giving up on all these matches I have on hinge? You know, like all these, you know, right? It probably has something to do with that, you know, which is a normal thing. Also, like, you took him right back. So, like, he didn't even have to regret, you know? All he needed to do is be like, I'm sorry.

You know, he had to send some kind of half-ass meaningful text, you know. So missed opportunity. All right. So I just want you to remember that, you know, it's like, I'm not doing anything wrong. I, until someone's willing to say, I want to be your boyfriend, will you be my girlfriend, I want to commit to you, I want to know what you expect of me, you know, how can I make you feel safe, secure in a relationship? And I want to do, I want to go the extra mile with you and I want to try to build an emotional, until that happens, you can do it out of the fuck you want. And you do

not have to apologize for anyone and you shouldn't hide the fact that you are a desired person. Okay. Thanks. All right. So that's honestly the more. than anything. That's all you need. We could end this call now and I feel like, but let's let's work on your current dilemma. Anyway, so you, you didn't do that. You just for like, great, thanks for being sorry and when's our next date, basically. Yeah, so we have a date on Valentine's Day. And I have a date tonight with the other boy. No, this is this like upcoming, like next week. Oh, so you've planned a date. We have a date plans. With Guy A. Guy A. So this is all recent.

Yes, this is super recent, like today. Today? Like today. Great. We're fine. This is good. We can still write our wrong. I mean, you get off the phone with me.

You're going to call them up and be like, hey, I need to tell you something. I don't know why I didn't say it at first. I was a little caught off guard because honestly, I wasn't expect you 12 hours later reach out. But I went on a date last night. Okay, wait. Hold on. I need a backup.

Okay. The date happened two weeks ago. And I've been seeing the apartment guy every single night. Who do you like more? I don't know because I know the second guy is very stable. And the first guy... How do you know that he's stable? How do you know that he's stable? How do you know these?

You've known him for two weeks and he's... No, we've been friends for a long time. You've been friends? Mm-hmm. So he finally, like, shot his shot? He shot. Okay. Have you hooked up with guy number two?

No, he's never made a move. All right. Has he spent the night? No. But, like, we say good night. I go back downstairs to my apartment. Okay. I've hooked up with Guy A.

But not since Guy B is it? Since Guy B. All right. So give me the exact timeline. All right. So two weeks ago, two weeks ago, guy A said, sorry I can't do this. Two weeks ago, Guy said that.

All right. And then that night, you went on a really lovely date. The next day, Guy A reached out to you and said, my bad, you said, no problem. Said, it's all right. Welcome back. And then when do you guys see each other? again? A week later.

A week later. Okay. And then you hooked up? Yeah. Was that the first time you guys hooked up? No. All right. So then it was nothing new. Nothing new. Okay. Cool. And then you haven't seen him since and you've planned a Valentine's Day date. Yeah. Does Guy B want to know what you're doing on Valentine's Day? Guy B's going on a trip for work, so he hasn't asked. How convenient. True.

Well, what do you think you should do? Do I owe the guy A, like the explanation of like why I haven't like FaceTime him at night? To me it's not about owing either of these guys anything. Okay. I think for you, this is about you making better decisions for yourself. And using this opportunity that's generally low stakes, as I would say, you're not, neither of these guys are your boyfriend. You technically still haven't done anything wrong. You definitely could have been more honest.

But you don't owe them that. But, like, again, I want you to feel confident enough to not have to, again, apologize for things you're not doing wrong. Yeah. So if you're still unsure about both these guys and you still want to maybe date both these guys, I think you have the right to try. Okay. Well, let me back up a step.

Okay. So Guy and I were exclusive. Like, we were only seeing each other. And then he broke it off. Right. And so now we're back to. talking so we're not exclusive and you're making that you know that for sure because you i'm just assuming you're assuming you're assuming that yeah yeah all right well i he's assuming

you're exclusive is my guess okay so i should go back and clarify whatever you want yeah yeah you're i mean is you're in a little bit of a pickle because it it was two weeks ago and and he's going to feel like you haven't been honest with him and he's going to have a right to feel that way and then you're going to have to deal with that i don't think you have to get in the weeds of like well i've hung out with them every day okay since But I think you could call them up and say, hey, listen, can we talk? And I just want to be transparent with you. And I should have been more transparent with you.

But honestly, I was really caught off guard for the past couple weeks. But when you broke things off with me, I got asked on a date that night. And I was pretty upset with your decision. And so obviously I said yes, because I could. And I preferred going on a date rather than being sad alone in my apartment. and I had a really nice time. And then you reached out and I was really happy to hear from you. But honestly, a little confused because I had a really nice time with this person.

And just to be totally honest with you, I've kept communication open with this guy. And I guess, like, to be honest, I wasn't sure where we stood. And I guess we didn't like clarify whether we were exclusive when you got back in my life. Anyways, I just want to be honest with you about that because I'm honestly, just not sure how I'm feeling about things right now. And I'm sorry for not telling you because that was the right thing to do, but I'm not sorry I went on that date. That's good. And I think you can kind of see what he says. Yeah. And I think it's important to remember that he has the right to be upset for that you didn't tell him. And he has to be, he has the right to be upset with himself about that call.

But he has to be very careful about how he channels that frustration and whether he blames you for things that you shouldn't be sorry for. And I think, you know, it might be telling how he handles those things. You know, it's like he should be a little jealous and a little frustrated, but more the correct response for him to be like, yeah, to have more regret about his decision and a willingness to be like, all right, well, what do I have to do to win you back? You know, that's the correct response because he should just be mad at himself. And, while you can apologize for not telling him, he can also acknowledge that, like, you know, that you weren't his girlfriend, you know, and it's like you broke things off. And I honestly, I was so caught off guard at the time. I wasn't sure how serious you were or whatever. And I just, you know, I didn't tell you and I regretted not telling you, but it's been bothering me and now I want to tell you. You know, and if he asked you questions, like, did you hook up? He's probably, did you hook up with this guy? You can, you can be honest and say no. I can say no. Yeah, because I didn't. Um, but. Outside, like, oh, well, you know, who is he?

You know, you have the right pretty quickly to be like, to be honest, it's not really any of your business. We're not boyfriend and girlfriend. I do want to be upfront with you and just let you know I have talked and continue to have talked to this other person. And I'm a little confused about how I feel about both situations because, like, I'm glad you came back, but like, you did flip a switch and you did walk away. And that made me feel a little insecure about like our potential.

Yeah. Am I articulating your feelings accurately? No, that is very true. It's just it caught me off guard because things were going really well. And then he's like, I'm like freaking out right now. And then to come back 12 hours later. Yeah. But yeah, you have the right to be like, you know, I don't want to be rude and I did

want to be honest with you. But like, honestly, it's not really into your business. I mean, try to avoid saying that's under your business. But like, you can just be like, you know, I don't. don't, I don't need to give you the play by play. I just wanted to let you know. And no, we haven't hooked up. But at the same time, do you know what you want at all? Like, do you, what, like, what do you want? Like, for every, let's assume both guys are going to do whatever you want. What do you want right now? I feel like I have a great connection with the second guy, but I just know the

first guy for a longer. Well, I thought, I thought the second guy you've been friends with for a long time. Yeah, the second guy we have been friends. They're both like, do you think, so the first guy, so guy A is 27, guy B is 29. Is that too old for 23? I mean, my wife's 18 younger than me, so you know, you're asking the wrong guy. It sounds like their ages are

pretty, they're essentially the same age. And the younger one could be wildly more mature than the older one, who knows, mostly based off of lived in life experiences, but like a two-year difference for men in their late 20s is about the same. What's more important is how do you feel with them? Do you feel like

you can be yourself around both of them. Do you feel like with you being a little younger than both of them is one more, say, condescending or dismissive of your age in lived experiences as opposed to another person? Do they, you know, I don't care if he's six years older than you or 18 years older than you or one year older than you, he should feel like you're equal. You know, and so that's important to gauge how you feel around these guys. I think they both do a really great job at that. Like, these are both really nice guys. Okay. Well, you're going to have to figure it out

sewering later. True. I'm hesitant because the first guy broke it off. So maybe second guy. I don't know. I mean, I can't make the decision for you. I do think, I do think, you know, listen, you can give Guy A

a hard time and certainly his decision can bother you. I don't think it's a crime for him to have a little bit of a panic. And he did come back 12 hours later. And that's honestly like, best case scenario for someone who it only took him 24 he had to literally sleep on it to be like what the fuck am i doing yeah and honestly it sounds like he like he basically had a beer with a buddy

who is a single buddy who is like bro like come on man all these chicks you know i don't know if that's what happened but like it probably was something as dumb as that and then he was like why am i listening to my friend who like i would never who's like a mess in relation and i literally took his advice like what am i doing you know uh it could have been as dumb as that, which is like not a crime and at the end of the world. So I don't know if you should make your decision on that. And if you're not ready to make a decision, maybe you can just say, you know, I need to slow things down with, you know, and it's not like guy A, why do you, why do you not see him with such regularity? Is he just a busy guy with work or something?

Yeah, he's got a crazy work life. Okay. And you like that? Do you not like that? I like that. Yeah. Why have you spent every night with Guy B? That's a lot. It is a lot. So Guy A lives in this city I'm about to move to. Oh. And Guy B lives in my current city.

What are you moving? In August. Okay. That's why Guy A, like, was freaking out because he's like, we can't be together until August. Oh, interesting. Listen, I don't think you need to decide. You're not ready to make a decision, so don't make a decision.

I think maybe the decision will work itself out. You also need to be honest with Guy B. We haven't, like, he hasn't made a move or anything, so I don't know if we're still friends or not. What do you mean? Like, I go upstairs every night and I, like, I want to stay over, but he hasn't invited me. He has never tried to kiss me. Like, it's kind of just like a hug goodbye. But we make dinner together, like.

Do you have plans tonight? We have place tonight. Doing what? Like, we're about to go watch the hockey game. Okay. He knows nothing about Guy. No, he knows that I want on a date, but he doesn't know anything. He doesn't know anything.

He doesn't know anything. I still think it would be a good exercise for you to just be honest with these guys. Okay. You know? And with Guy B, it might help propel things forward, right? So here's this guy you had one really nice date with. Probably hung out every day, most out of proximity. He lives in the same building, so it's just really easy to, like, go down a floor, right?

And that's probably play a role in the, you know. And so, like, you guys are really enjoying it in his company. Why he hasn't made a move? I don't know. Just, you know, maybe just a really respectful king who is just, like, unsure, you know. Yeah. And if guy A wasn't in the picture, you would probably just be, you might be calling in and it would be like, I've been hanging out with this guy every night and why hasn't he made a move?

Does he really like me? That's probably what I would say. Right. So you can use this to your advantage and to say, hey, can I tell you something? This might sound a little weird, but, like, I was dating a guy kind of, you know, exclusively. It wasn't my boyfriend. I don't know in 2026. I don't know what you kids are doing, but that seems like a normal thing for you guys to be exclusive but not boyfriend girlfriend, so it won't sound weird to him.

Situation shit. And so I was seeing this guy, you know, and we were, I guess, we were exclusive. And the night you asked me out, he actually broke things off with me. And I was so obviously I was really excited to say yes to you. And then like the next day he reached back out regretful because I'm awesome. And I've seen him once before. And I've really enjoyed our but I also just wanted to be honest with you that I have been talking to him. And I guess I'm just not even sure what this is, but I wanted to talk to you about it. And I just, you know, the conversation with guy B is a lot easier because you definitely haven't done anything wrong.

And it's like, you don't own him anything. You guys haven't even been physical or, you know, so like, and so all you're doing is just trying to have an open conversation with him. And it's an opportunity for you to check in to see how he feels. So he might be like, oh, like, well, thanks for telling me. You know, well, I, listen, if you can't tell, I really like you, I wouldn't be hanging out with you and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And for all you know, that might cause you guys to have passionate, you know,

a really great makeup. I don't know. But I'm guessing he has really less, it would be weird for him to get really mad. And if he did, I think that would be a huge red flag. I don't think he would be. Yeah. But it's still an opportunity if you did. And then guy in guy A, again, you've done nothing wrong other than you should have told him right away.

He left. Like what? Yeah. It's just the more the, you clearly have been finding ways to figure out how to not bring up guy B around guy A. And given that you hung out with guy B every day when he was like, so what did you do last night? And you, you, you know. So to that end, you've been a little dishonest. Yeah, that's true.

But yeah, I think you lay it out there to both guys and you let them know that like, especially guy A, that you're really unsure about, you'd be like, yeah, I mean, you know, it really caught me off guard how you just were so quick to throw what we had away. And I'm really glad you're back and I do really like you. But like, I'm not going to lie. I didn't meet another really great guy and I've enjoyed getting to know him. And I guess I just really wanted to be honest with you. And then you can see how both these men react. And maybe it will help clarify your decision about how they pursue you, how they respond. Do they blame you? Do they get really angry with you? Do they try to make you feel like you did something wrong when you didn't? You know, that might be very telling. Yeah, that's good advice.

All right. Yeah, that's not what my girlfriend said. What are your girlfriend? I'm curious. They're like, I'm team A, I'm team B. I'm like, this doesn't help me. So they're just taking sides. Yeah.

And it's split down the middle? It's split down the middle. Great. And that's what the girlfriends are for, you know? True. All right. So you're going to do that? Yeah, I'm going to go talk to Guy or the second guy right now.

I'll just go upstairs. Great. But really more importantly, when are you going to talk to Guy? I mean, we have a date on Valentine's Day. Should I talk to him before? Yes. So call him like today, tomorrow? Soon as possible.

I honestly would talk to Guy A first. Really? Well, because that's the bigger conversation. True. And while we don't know how either of these conversations are going to go, I think we both agree there's a good chance conversation with Guy B could go pretty well. And if anything, it could help propel things forward.

And if it goes so well that all of a sudden he makes the move and tries to seal the deal, I don't want you to feel more guilty about what just happened with Guy B. True. So I think you should, I think if anything, if you hang out, go watch the hockey game, I think just make sure nothing does happen. You can do whatever you want, I mean, but I think you would, if you're trying to get through this pickle without complicating it more, I think I would start with Guy A and see how he responds

and then see how that, if that changes how you feel in general. I might answer your question. And I don't know, he might be like, you know what, fuck off. I never want to talk to you again. Then maybe you don't even need to really tell guy B, you know. True. Because, you know, there's nothing really he needs to know at this point. But if you are confused and still want to try to date both these guys, then you have the right to do that.

And I also just remember, you have the right to tell both these guys. They're only privy to so much information. Like, certainly anyone yet you're physical with has the right to know that if you're being physical with other people. Like, that's just like a safe sex situation. But short of that, they, if they're not your boyfriend, you don't need a permission to hang out with other people. You don't need a debrief. They don't, you don't need to tell them if you're going on other dates. If they ask, you can decide to be up front, you know.

But they don't, they, you have the right to be like, you know, listen, I, I'll, I'll be honest with you if I'm talking to other people, but I'm not going to like, I'm not going to gab with you like one of the girls, you know. Yeah. And then again, you can see how much they're willing to fight for it. and it might quickly change your mind, but you know, you have the right to be up front. True. But I really think, yeah,

if you handle it this way, there's a good chance the decision will be made for you and you'll get clarity. And then worst case scenario, you have a chance to date both these guys and it gets a little confusing,

but, you know, whatever. I don't think you're going to lose both these guys by being honest. Okay. Thanks. That's helpful. But I am dying to know what happens, so please keep us updated.

Okay, I will. All right. Thanks, Nate. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye. If you're like me and trying to stay consistent with your fitness and nutrition without overthinking it, David's protein bars make it easy. High protein, great flavors and perfect for busy days when you still want to feel good

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My name's Grace. I'm 26, and my mom hates my husband and has tried to get me to divorce him. Okay. Do you hate your husband? I do not. I love my husband. Oh, you don't want to get divorced then? I do not want to get divorced.

My mom is definitely the issue. Why does she want you to leave your husband? So a lot of backstory on my mom. I promise it's all important, so bear with me here. but my mom had me when she was a teenager, so she never went to college, never got a job. She kind of just has always relied her entire life on her husband. Of note, she is on her third husband now, my stepdad. And she's kind of projected on me, her entire life, my entire life, that I need to do life

quite the right way. So go to college, get a well-paying job, then find a husband, then get married, and have kids. but my husband and I are high school sweethearts. And we also went to the same college together. So we dated for five years. I was in the middle of my doctorate program in college when we decided to go against my mom's wishes and get married anyway. I was young.

I was 22 at the time. He was 23. And I had two more years left of school. So she was pretty much convinced that I would not finish my doctor program that I was just going to get married and get pregnant. and quit school, which was not the case. So some backstory to my husband, why she doesn't really like him from the very start, he comes from what she considers not a good family. His parents were both addicts. They were in and out of prison his entire life. His grandma pretty much raised him. But my husband saw how his parents

chose to live their life. And he is an example of someone who knew that's not what he wanted for himself. And he has never dabbled in drugs or alcohol ever in his life. He's the first. He's the first. first generation to go on to college. And I've tried explaining this to my mom. And like, that's one of the best qualities about him and why I love him. Um, but she still thinks that because he comes from a bad family, that he doesn't have good family values. So after we got married, what are what are good family values? She just thinks like you should want to take care of your parents. Like when my husband and I got married, we kind of had this idea like now that we're married, like once we have kids, like this is our family now.

You know, it's not like we don't care about our extended family and my parents and everything. It's just we moved three hours away from them and she took issue with that. She thought that we should move back home where she lives. And it's like our jobs are here now and we now have children and they're going to go to school here. You guys have kids together? We do. Yes. She still wants you to get divorced?

She still wants me to get divorced. Yes. How often does she bring this up? Quite often. Like she's just, she's just always talking shit about your husband? Any chance she can get pretty much. To me, it's like... Should you do it around him?

Not around him, but yeah, not to his, not to his face. Is he aware of how she feels? He is, he is aware. Yeah. So the biggest, I guess the time everything blew up was right after I had my daughter, she came to stay with us for a week. I was freshly postpartum hormonal. I had postpartum depression, anxiety, the whole nine years.

yards and she was coming to stay with us. And everything aside about my husband that she already didn't like about him, this was the biggest turning point. I think in our relationship, in their relationship, she came to help when my daughter was a newborn. And she took issue with how my husband was taking care of our newborn, which was he would take a large shift during the night so that I could sleep. And the way he would stay awake is he would play video games. And he had the bassinet right next to him the whole time. If she ever woke up and cried, he'd pause his game and take care of her. Well, she thought, because he was playing video games and had his headset on that he wasn't paying attention and would just neglect her essentially. So that was the time when she blew up and you're on a walk with my daughter and my husband stayed back.

And she told me like, you know, if you want to leave him, we would help you and we would help support you. And I personally think you should divorce him because he's not going to help you with your kids and you're going to basically be a single mom. And he's just going to be deadbeat dad. He's literally staying up. Yeah, exactly. I was... Honestly, I think is like, I mean, I have nose for your husband, but it's like... I know.

I'm like, go to bed. Right. And just wake up when your daughter wakes up so your wife can sleep. But anyways, besides the point, you know. Yeah. But you're right. I mean, a newborn, they're little potatoes. Right.

You don't need to hover over them. Yeah. And then what was your response, I guess? I told her I thought that was ridiculous. And I thought she was kind of rejecting because I know, Like when I was a newborn, my dad was not helpful at all. He was the one working and she didn't work. So he kind of had the mentality like, you know, I should get to sleep all night because I have to go to work. So I'm not going to help you. And so she kind of projected that onto me. And I'm like, clearly that's not the case here. My husband is willing to take a large portion of the night shift, which I am so thankful for. A lot of dads don't do that. So yeah, I took, you know, what he did is like just him being a good dad. And that's how he chose to. stay awake because he's one like after he falls asleep he he probably wouldn't hear the baby wake up honestly because he's such a heavy sleeper but even like the timing of when we had my daughter so um

we got married i mentioned when i was 22 i still had a couple years left in my doctorate program we actually unexpectedly got pregnant pretty soon after we got married so i had my daughter like in the middle of a pretty rigorous doctorate program and my mom was like telling her that i was pregnant like you would have thought i was a teen mom like having to tell me my parents that I was pregnant because she did not take the news well. She was like, see, I told you so. You're not going to finish your doctorate program. Like, you just got married and now you're going to have babies and now you're not going to have a good job and you're going to be dependent on your husband for the rest of your life and you're going to have a toxic marriage like I did. And I did prove her wrong.

I finished my doctorate program and did it with a newborn. So, but yeah, she just every single part like us getting married, us having kids when we did. How he parents. Every single thing, she just nitpicks. And now whenever she comes around to, you know, babysit and be with her kids, my husband pretty much avoids her because he is aware of the situation. I've told him everything she said. And he's just like very avoidant. So he will try to busy himself with other things. And then she takes offense to that like he's ignoring her. How often does your mom still come around?

She comes about once a month, I'd say, which is why I need help because she's in our life enough that, you know, this comes up a lot. And I do love my mom. You know, we've had our issues, but her hatred towards my husband has just become something that is just a big thing in her relationship. And it's hard for me to move past this because I see her very differently now. It's she can't love the person that I love the else in life. And it's hard. When was the last time you, like, talk to your mom about this and, like, confronted her? So I'd say when I was pregnant with our second, I had to set a boundary with her that she would not be coming to stay with us for a full week like she did after our first was born to help take care of the newborn with us because of what happened last time.

And obviously she took offense to that. And I kind of explained why I was setting that boundary and what happened last time. And when I postpartum, I'm already in a pretty step fragile. state. So her being there and her husband, or my husband and her mixing, I just knew that was not going to be a good thing. So I told her, you can come and like meet the baby. We want you to meet the baby, but I really don't want you lingering around. And yeah, when I explained to her like why I was setting that boundary and what happened last time, her response is never to apologize. It's always, well, I didn't mean it like that or you took that the wrong way or you misunderstood how I, how I meant that. It's never an apology. So it's really hard for me to forgive her when she has that that way of speaking and never really warning up to what she did and apologizing. So I guess what are you

looking for help with? Well, how can I help? Because I don't, you know, you don't need clarity on your marriage. Right. Yeah. I guess I just needed your like outsider perspective. Like do you do you think it's worth another confrontation? Because I'm actually, I'm pregnant with our third. We're going to have to do. Congratulations. So thank you. And so this is. This is. the conversation of her wanting to come more often to see the kids is it's going to come up. And I'm just stuck between a rock and a hard place of do I just let this keep going on the way that it is, where they're very avoidant towards each other. And there's all this animosity that I can feel. It's palpable. And then once my kids get old enough that they can recognize that,

like, do I just leave that elephant in the room? Or do I try to have another confrontation with her? And how would you go about that? And, you know, with someone with this type of personality who will never apologize, guys, how would you move forward with that or can I? Okay, great, great questions. So the goal is to just coexist with mom if possible, right? And to have her stop talking shit about your marriage and your husband and stop trying to convince you to do something you don't want to do. So, yeah, do I think it's worth having another conversation with mom? I do, right?

The goal isn't to get her apologized. The goal is to get her to change her behavior, whether she likes it. it or not. And I think it's just really important for you to remember that you are in the driver seat here, whether that feels like it or not, you know, and I'm sure, you know, if you listen to this show, we often talk about, like, you know, these parent-child dynamics and things like that. And so you've heard me talk about kind of like that weird transition from your mom being your sole primary caretaker, and then you becoming an adult woman. And then quickly, for use, especially, you really adulted quickly, right? I think the conversation with mom goes like this. You sit her down and say,

Mom, first of all, love you. Obviously, you always start with the love, right? And I know that you have my best interest in mind. And I really appreciate the fact that I know that you want the best from me. And I really feel that from you. So thank you for looking out for me. However, as you know, you haven't been very supportive of my marriage. And that's been very, very frustrating. And while I appreciate your feedback at times, you've crossed lines to the point where, like, it's just, it's disrespectful to me and my marriage. And you don't have to like it, but I do need you to respect it if you want to have a relationship with us. You're right. Like, I mean, good for your mom for thinking that she, it's your job to take care of her. And that's like, if you can, that's great.

But you're right. It's not your job anymore. Your job is your immediate family and is much, and to the point that you want to be in this marriage, your job is to, like, protect your husband and his feelings and your children. And that is your family you're cultivating and creating. And anyone else who wants to be a part of it, it sounds like the doors open for aunts and uncles and grandma and grandpa or whoever to be a part of your extended family, but your family is your family. And whether that's hard to hear or not, that is something I think you need to make clear for mom. And whenever your mom throws a temper tantrum, which sounds like she does, you have to be quick not to engage in it and just say, mom, I'm sorry you're upset, but like I'm not here. You know,

you can't listen to her. Like the moment she tries to convince you or argue with you, you're not, like, you're not here to debate her. You know, it's like, mom, I'm just, I'm just letting you know what I need from you in order for you to be a part of our lives. And so you're not looking, you know, what you don't need the apology. What's that going to do? What you need to know is that she understands the new rules and respects your boundaries so that she can coexist with your husband. It's not your husband's job. I mean, if I'm your husband, I'd be like, oh, I'm just going to avoid this chick.

I mean, your mom's a threat to him. You know, she's going to try to break up my family. All he does is see her as a threat now. So I totally get where he's coming from. Right. And so, yeah, it's just more like, listen, if you can't do this, then I will have no choice. than to distance myself from you, and I don't want that. But you can't show up at my house and my husband's house and disrespect him the way you disrespect him. Like, I don't want to hear your opinion about my marriage

if you have nothing nice to say. I really appreciate you looking out for me. And if I ever need advice from you about my marriage, I will come to you. And if I ask for your advice, by all means, give it. But like at this point, it's not appreciated. And it's, you know, whether your intentions are to help me or not, I do think you are projecting. And I do think you are assuming the worst in my partner. Comments about his family, that's cruel and disrespectful and unfair. And I'm sure if you wanted to get nasty, you could, you know, you're on your third marriage. I don't, you know, it's like, I don't need, I would try to avoid that. And that's the thing. Try not to stoop to her level, right? And you just, you have to be the adult in this relationship because your mom is acting like the kid. She's clearly

afraid that she's going to lose her daughter, someone who hasn't really had a successful love life of her own, so she's probably extra connected to you. And she is operating out of fear of you or of her losing. And you can say that. Mom, like, listen, I'll always be your daughter. You're going to have to accept me leaning into my marriage, into my family. But like, I do want a relationship with you, but you make it harder. If you want this relationship to fizzle out, keep doing what you're doing. And I don't want that to happen. But you have to. But you have a have to, if nothing else, be respectful and be kind and bring positive energy and make my husband feel welcomed in his own home. And if you can't do that, you won't be invited. Because my number one

concern right now isn't to make sure my kids have a relationship with their grandmother. My number one concern is my marriage and my family and how they feel around mom and dad. And while I want my kids to have a relation with my grandmother. It won't be at the risk or the cost of alienating my husband. And you really just have to be very authoritative in that conversation. Because your mom will like want to sense for that little girl who's afraid to say that to mom. And chances are she will say something hurtful or mean. And you will have to prepare yourself for that and not react. And if she says something hurtful, you can just say, mom, first of all, that's what I'm saying you can't do. That's hurt for you to say that. I'm not even going to acknowledge what you said and I'm not even

going to respond to it other than the fact that if you keep doing that, we won't have a relationship. But I do love you, Mom, and I very much want you to be a part of our lives. And I would love nothing more for you to have a positive relationship with my husband. And if someday, Mom, my marriage goes away that I hope it doesn't, the last thing I want for is, and I told you so, and that's how you make me feel now because right now if my relationship marriage doesn't work it won't be because of you but i certainly won't you won't be the first person i go to because like you don't you know right now it just seems like you want to be right and you don't you don't make me feel like you're looking at what's best for me you make me feel you're looking out what's best for you and yeah it's it's really just about you

having that very authoritative conversation with your mom where you are setting the rules you are setting the boundaries, you are communicating your expectations, you are not here to debate, discuss, I'm going to tell you what's up, and you should go think about it. And when you are ready to respect my rules and boundaries from my family, we are ready to welcome you with open arms. Yep, totally. Be willing in this very authoritative conversation to express gratitude for your mom for all that she has done and that you are appreciative and you do love her, but she has to stop this toxic behavior. And if she says things like, well, that you're, you, that's not what it meant. You'd be like, mom, you literally, first of all, I'm not going to debate with you.

Second of all, you literally have told me to leave him. And again, I don't even need an apology, but your actions need to change. We have a problem if you don't see what I'm saying. I know you do. You need to see what I'm seeing. And I know that you do. And if you don't, then we don't, there's no conversation to have, mom. You just like, like, won't be invited. And then she may try to blame him for this conversation you're having with her and be like, mom, this is all me. Not him. I'm saying this to you. So the choice is yours, mom. I love you and I deep down in my heart want you to have a relationship with me and our family. But you need to stop what you're doing. Can I ask you a question? Sure. So I brought this up in therapy and my therapist suggested that I, similar to what you're saying, have a conversation with my mom, but she also thinks that I need to have a sit down with my mom and my husband in the same room. And I just don't even know how I would start that. Is that something? something you would do or do you think that's necessary? Why does your therapist think that? I'm just curious. I think she, she's hoping, because my husband's very non-confrontational that, you know,

and it's also not his mom. So he doesn't feel comfortable, you know, saying these are the things that you kind of said that have hurt me or things you've done that have hurt me. She thinks if I was there acting as kind of a middleman, it would help him open up to my mom more and maybe help her feel some remorse towards him. I mean, my opinion, and I'm not a therapist, so, you know, is that like this is not your husband's job to solve? He didn't start this. And why does he have to open up to your mom so that she can, like, empathize and feel

for him? It's like, what has he done wrong? What has he done to make her feel? Like, she just assumes the worst in him. Yeah. I really think she needs to hear from you. you. Like, this is how you feel. And you feel like it's disrespectful and you want it to stop. If you have a conversation to the two of them and you play mediator, you didn't call up and say, oh, my husband

and my mom constantly fight. And I don't, you know, and I just feel like I'm in the middle of it. Sometimes I agree with my mom and sometimes I agree with my husband, but they're just at each other's throats. Like, that's not the picture you're painting unless I'm wrong. It is mom. Mom is constantly attacking my marriage and indirectly constantly attacking my husband and she talks shit behind his back and she makes it pretty clear with her energy that she doesn't fuck with my husband. And it makes my husband feel a certain way. I just don't know why your husband should be responsible to like sit in this like a therapy room to be like, well, can I just be vulnerable right now and open up to you and have you and have and you make sure your mom's listening.

It's like this is between you and your mom. You know, your mom not believing that you had at what it takes to finish school and be a mom and work on your marriage. I mean, your mom basically projected all of her failures onto you and assumed you would make the same mistakes. And to me, that's like a conversation that you should have with your mom. Yeah, I agree. I think there might be a time where you can, you know, have that conversation, but you could have that conversation with your mom and your husband and not feel like you got your

point across. So that's what I think. That makes sense. Her level of comfort to talk the shit she's talked about your husband, she shouldn't feel that comfortable. Like, again, you've been dating this guy since high school. And it's not like at any point she witnessed him, correct me if I'm wrong, like speaking to you in a manner that was disrespectful or treating you, you didn't go, you haven't gone to your mom and like constantly complained about him and you haven't like cried in your mom's arms because he's cheated on you or done all these terrible things that, again, many people will, you know, put up with in marriages or dating situations. And then they will, they will go to the parents and cry and complain. And then parents will be very frustrated because

they want to support their kids. But it's just like, how am I supposed to support this guy when you've done nothing but complain to him about me, you know, but that's not what's going on. It's just like your mom is this projecting onto you and feels a level of comfort to say whatever the fuck she wants without even considering how disrespectful it is and how mean it can be and just also just like disheartening and just very discouraging and for you to be like well thanks for thanks for the believing in me and so to me it's really about you and your mom's relationship setting new expectations and boundaries with your mom and making sure she respects you she doesn't respect you or your choices yeah i think that's a little bit of it and then there's another

added layer like if you're familiar with the idea of like a toxic boy mom who's in love with her son because her husband doesn't fulfill what she needs in a relationship there's a little bit of that going on. I wouldn't say she's like in love with me, but it's her current husband, my stepdad is away a lot for work. And so she's alone a lot. She's an empty nester now. And so she wants me to be around and to fulfill that relationship, you know, someone to talk to every single day and know that I, totally. My husband and my family, it's just, it's not like that anymore. I don't necessarily like, I'll text her every day, but I don't have time to call her every day anymore. Yeah. And that's, you know, I'm sad for your mom.

I, you know, and that, like, sucks. Yeah. But the best you can do is to say, mom, I'm sorry. I can't give you what you want, but here's what I can, but I can't even give you that if you're not going to respect me or my marriage. And when I do call you, I want to have a positive relationship with you. And I want to talk about the things we want to talk about. I don't want to be defending me and my choices or be made to feel guilty about me

prioritizing my family. Yeah. I would agree. All right. Well, thank you. This was very helpful. All right. Well, I'm glad. Please keep us posted. I'd love to know how that conversation goes. We'll do. We'll do.

Yeah. And just, again, always just make sure to check in with your husband and ask how he's feeling. And again, if he wants to talk to your mom, you can help facilitate that. But, yeah, I would, you know, hey, art therapist thinks you need to have this sit down with my mom. And he's like, well, okay. To do what? Yeah. He's not going to want to convince her to like him. Yeah, and I don't even know if that's possible at this point, you know, if they'll ever get to a point where they are best friends or love each other like mother and son. I don't just, I just don't see us getting to that point ever. Well, to me, it comes down to, again, it's going to require her to accept your boundaries and see you as an adult and respect you as an adult. get over her own fears and insecurities about loneliness, which are understandable in her position.

And then start making some changes. Sounds good. All right. Keep us posted. We'll do. Thank you so much, Nick. And congrats on your guys as twins. I'm so excited for you guys.

Thank you. We're so deserving. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye.