The Viall Files - E1092 - Age Of Attraction Premiere with Derrick and Andrew, Love Is Blind Reunion with Alex & Summer House

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It's here! Age of Attraction is finally out! And to celebrate, we're kicking off our coverage with interviews with Andrew and Derrick! Plus we get into the first episode, are joined by Alex to get into the Love Is Blind Reunion, argue about Summer House and more! You won't want to miss it!   "I think that there's a lot of context in the pods that's kind of missed…"  The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 6th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Quo - Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to https://quo.com/viall  Grammarly - Download Grammarly for free at https://grammarly.com  Chime - Head to https://chime.com/viall. It only takes a few minutes to sign up and Viall Files listeners can earn up to an extra $350. Wayfair - Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to https://wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Thrive Market - Ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member? Join Thrive Market with my link https://thrivemarket.com/viall for 30% off your first order plus a FREE $60 gift! Car Gurus - Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus at https://cargurus.com  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 08:17 - Age of Attraction  21:25  - Andrew and Derrick Join 40:26 - Love Is Blind Reunion 54:18 - Alex Joins 1:11:12 - Show Recaps 1:47:13 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @spruce0wayne @derrick_fleming @andrewlanewheeler @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare

on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vowel files i'm your host nick joined by the extraordinary talented nally joy very glammed natalie glammed up if you're watching uh we do have age of attraction press today exciting nick's wearing a tie i'm wearing a tie i'm going for the like college professor no that's not college professor high school teacher no it's giving like YSL, like modern business casual. It's giving YSL interpretation of a high school teacher who teaches history and also coaches soccer. Yeah, I'm like that. But it's a YSL interpretation.

Exactly. Yeah. I'm the high school history teacher that is a part-time model, but I got one modeling gig. Did you tie the tie yourself or is this a clip-on? Oh my God. A clip-on. And I say that as someone who wears a clip-on, I can't tie it myself. The clip-on is just more simplified.

It's embarrassing for any man who doesn't know how to pay. tie at eye or a bow tie, especially in the year of the Lord 2026, given that you could do YouTube it. What are some basic skills that men have lost that they, shining their polishing a shoe? Humority.

Shivalry, holding doors open. This man I just got on the elevator with it today this morning was so fucking weird. He gets in the elevator after me. I hit the button and he walks in and I go, what button would you like? Oh my God. He was like, oh, and then hits it, but it was just kind of like this weird, like we're instead of to say good morning. Yeah, like, instead of just

just saying like good morning, hi, like whatever. Like it was just very like, like, shear, my biggest peat is when you're trying to exit the elevator. And the second the doors open, someone shoves their way in. And it's like, just common courtesy. I feel like it's just gone out the window. Honestly, a lot. A lot.

All right. Well, now we're going to jump into some age of attraction shortly, but just a couple housekeeping notes. We do have ValfaS Plus, which is ad free and some amazing content like reality recap deep dyes where we dive deep. and all the shows that we're talking about on reality recap. I did return to this update plus. I haven't done it in a while,

but Nick and I handled this one. I was out of town, so Justin popped back in. Yeah. It's a good update. Deep dive, we talked more about Love is Blind, so that'll be our last Love is Blind, deep dive. We'll be moving on to other shows. Maybe Age of Attraction.

So definitely check that out. If you want to hear from the host of Age of Attraction and maybe some behind the scene, a really great place to do that on Vile Files Plus. We also have the Mormon Wives. came out today. It's out today. I look forward to watching that.

Did you guys see, I haven't watched yet, but I did see the new intro. Have you guys seen it? I feel like every time they do this, I'm like, what are the logistics of actually making these shots? Maybe it's movie magic and it's all green screen, but I choose to believe it's real, that they're walking through this massive field of like yellow weeds or whatever, and then it's like

the blue road of like fabric that they're walking down. You'll get it. Definitely all green screen. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he showed us. Remember last. I know they did, and Jesse's hair wasn't. Yeah. I know, but I'm choosing to believe it's real, because then you also see that, like, Taylor, they're all standing there, and then Taylor's the one person on this, like, massive swing standing there in the center. Listen, I think this, I mean, this, obviously we love this show.

We love these women. It's going to get more and more fascinating. And I feel like I've seen a couple, like short, you know, like part of their press tour. And I think part of the theme of this season is like, you know, these women are now, we're in season four. When, you know, season one, it was like, it was we knew about mom talk. We knew about the scandal. There was a lot of optimism and excitement. You know, the women came into the studio, like having all like, watch The Bachelor and, you know,

And these women are all huge stars now. You know, all of them are stars. But they're not necessarily all in the same kind of level, right? And we, you know, and there's going to be a lot of competition. They all have their own publicist and reps and managers. And they're all getting these different opportunities. It's like so much of the show now I feel like is how these women manage that competition. And does, will it affect the relationships and the competition behind that?

Because it's like a very concentrated. way of like just the whole influence for space in general of like just how cutthroat it can be and if you see someone get an opportunity that's like you know similar following similar like brand you realize that or like that person was chosen over me you know and and how do they start managing or you know those expectations and will it affect the relationships of all these women well that's why i brought up the intro because it's like you have all of these people that are like major stars already on their own standing below and you have like Taylor literally above everybody swinging on a swing,

which is a reference to like the whole swinging scandal that started all of this mom top drama. So it's like they're returning and motifsing the original stuff. They're big enough to do that now. It's also interesting too to see like how they're going to keep everything together because it's like we know that Jen moved to L.A. So she's out here and then you've got. Like permanently? At least temporary after dancing with the stars, they have a house out here

because I think Zach's doing work out here or something. I know. I know Whitney's still with Chicago. And Whitney's in New York. So, like, that's why I'm like, it's very interesting to see how. Just like with all of their friendship dynamics and trying to keep everything together because at least it was like a, you know, small group of friends from Utah. And now it's like. But was this filming during filming, dancing with the stars. That was my question. Yeah.

Because last season was then interviewing for the show. Yeah. Yeah. So then, yeah, this season will be Whitney and Jen and Ella. I did see Whitney did an interview talking about her opening night and that all of the. women showed up for it, which I said. And she was like, it was just incredible because obviously for them to be able to, like, show them and support. I hope Mormon wives continues forever. I already saw that they released some of the titles of the episodes, and one of the episodes

is Taylor and Chase. So, like, we kind of saw a glimpse of that last season and we're going to, I guess, see more of it now. Didn't he, like, just get his, like, fifth DUI or something? He didn't show up to court. You guys, the toxic part of me loves Chase. I love his content. I'll keep Kate.

You can keep Chase. I think it's the girl. from Florida and me that I see Chase and I'm like, that's a man. I'm just like hoping that the Taylor and Chase episode is like her being like, oh my God, I know we kind of entertain something, but I'm going to go film the back.

I was just like, we already know it's not going to go anywhere. Yeah, and back to like them being friends. They're all friends and they're all friendly, but even friends can be competitive. And then there's again, like, how much of friends do they remain versus how much of competitors do they become will be the most interesting part of like

the trajectory of this show. and will they be able to like, you know, and again, there's no clear answer. Like, sometimes you're Steve Carell and you're like, hey, I've outlived the office and it works out. You know, you're George Clooney on ER and like you bet on yourself and you become a huge movie star. Other people have made that choice and it didn't work out, you know? And so there's no like clear answer, but it's fascinating to see when people think it's the right time for them to like that they've outgrown the thing that made them the star. and do they make that, do they make the right bet? Is it the right time?

You know, versus like, you know, maybe it's a little too early or maybe they don't have it. You know, it's, it'll be, it's, you know, in this show, these women are just all massive stars and the show is huge, but like, I'm sure all of them, to some degree, want to see what success, what sustainable success they can get outside of this show.

All I got to say is mom talk will always survive. Well, we have a great episode lined up for you all. today we have Andrew and Derek, two of the men from age of attraction. You will love them. They are hot and... Glowing. Ages, you will all be shocked. They've done the work. They've done the work. On their hearts. We also have Alex from Love is Blind answering or not answering some questions. Offering clarity and some confusion.

Still more work to do. Still lots of work to do. But age of attraction. Yeah. Well, I don't know how many of you have tuned in to age of attraction. We have the very sexy, very... The daddies. The daddies, literally.

Literally. Oh, Age of Attraction. Mr. Andrew and Mr. Derek join us to talk about a little bit about their experience. We don't want, obviously... We want most of you guys to watch it. Maybe somebody you binged it, but we didn't have the love as blind reunion. So I can't expect you guys to watch too much TV last night. But we'll talk about the first episode of Age of Attraction as well as get into the reunion of Love is Blind.

We also have another fantastic episode of Summer House to break down. Is that all the TV that we watched? No, it's not. There's more. There's Southern Hospitality. I haven't tapped into that yet, but it seems the streets are saying it's really good. I would say that it was a pretty explosive season premiere. I also think with Vanderpump reboot, people are noticing that Southern hospitality, which they were saying before, is closer to original

Vanderpump and the reboot is to actual Vanderpump. Yeah, I feel like in a, I feel like the, you know, maybe it's because it's in L.A. And I think a lot of people that are casting in L.A. are just. Influencers. Influencers, they moved here for a hope and a dream. And it feels like the Southern hospitality people are true reality TV stars in the sense that they're like, just whatever I need to do for the bit. Maddie Reese, the DJ. She's been on tour this entire time. And I love that when she came back to like, Southern Hospitality. She was like, I just got back from a 40.

city tour like I'm exhausted but like I'm home like like as if it's like okay you're about to film the most dramatic reality TV show and she goes ah calm we'll get into it I have so many thoughts age of attraction I got I watched it I watched the first episode y'all very impressed first of all the backdrop of their speed dating absolutely gorgeous where y'all filmed yeah um second of all protect Justin with everything in my being I don't think I've ever gotten so into just like screaming at the television being like, I hope it gets chosen. He has a smolder. Did you notice his little like smolder that he does?

He does have a smolder. He's the definition of like, daddy. Yeah. You know, he's got that. You all made me root for a man. But he's like fit, but also like dead bod. Yeah, but there's like a sadness in his eyes. Yeah.

Very humanizing. Uh-huh. Yeah. He just needs a hug. He is the sweetest man ever. Is that how you like your men, lost all hope? No, but I'm just like, I like him on TV. like that.

I've been missing this in reality television. Yeah. Maybe just need but still matters. He specifically said something that I've never heard before and this is just

because I'm younger I think but he said like when you reach a certain age and you don't have kids it's seen as like not a red flag but he just had people like question it which is very interesting.

I mean as you get older whether you don't have kids or you have a couple failed relationships there's definitely the what's wrong with you. You know, like, why haven't you been able to land this plane yet? You know?

He said, maybe someday it'll happen. Maybe not. And I was like, it's going to happen for you. No, it was so heartfelt that you're like, is he acting? No, I didn't feel at all. My heart went out for him the entire time. It was, I know he wasn't acting. It's just like fan favorite for me.

And I'm like, oh my God. Is Finnell going to pick him or Jorge? I don't know, but I really hope he gets picked. I was bummed one of the, I'm curious what people are going to think of Aaron. She chatted with Tristan, the one with the hair. Oh, she's older. Let's talk about the two of them. I discover Tristan is like an influencer on Instagram.

That's not shocking. Like I just like was scrolling through and I was like, wait, this looks like the guy from the episode. And I was like, oh my God, this is literally him because then he posted his cast photo. Oh, yeah. He travels the world and tries food. I've seen him before. He's the one who in the trailer was like, if you're not as hot as my mom, I won't marry you. And then his mom commented being like, that's my son.

And then he commented being like, hope my mom never sees this. Oh, my God. As soon as he came on camera and said that his sexual awakening was to Kim Zulziak in that parking lot, I was like, oh, we're making TV baby. I was like, this is a TV show. Okay. I sat, I sat my ass out and I listened when he came on the screen. We got to send that to Kim.

Yeah. Yeah, Kim, you got to check it out. By the way, Teresa is awesome. Like having her in the studio the other day, she is such a kind, sweet, badass. Her energy just completely lights up a room and watching her and John just hit it off was really, really sweet.

It like watching their lot, like you're like, I was like giddy on the couch. I was like, oh my God, like watching her. I feel what she's feeling. Prince Harry looking for my Megan Markle. You think it would be kind of a cliche, but they ate it up. I did have brown hair ones. Literally.

Exactly. She's perfect. No, she's perfect. She's a star on screen. What did y'all think of Chloe, who, as soon as she sat down, she was like, how much money is you doing? Oh, my God, loved it. And then he's like, wait, for real? She's like, no, no.

But what do you do for work? But what do you do for? He said, well, girl. Damn, girl. And isn't it what do you do for work, basically? It's the same thing. It's the same question. It's ballpark.

It's what do you make, it's like, what's your status? You definitely might have some follow-up questions because there's some bad and poor lawyers out there. For sure. If you said lawyer, it's like what kind of lawyer? Pro bono. It's like, oh. Charity, we love that, though. They could say accountant, and that means more than one thing.

Curveball. Curve ball. You guys did say nothing's off limits other than your age, so. I did really like Nick Natalie when you guys opened the retreat. Like, I thought that was really cute because I think I like when the hosts aren't dominating it, but you guys are the example of what you're trying to do in this retreat. I don't know if we've told the story, but we were like, you know, hi, we're Nick and Natalie and, you know, we are 18 years apart and everyone clap. And it was like, they did, yeah.

Oh, my God. You're like, that has never happened. That is never. That is never. Literally. It's usually like, oh. Did you guys know, did you know what you were saying going up to like that specific moment? Like, did you have like a breakdown speech of what you wanted to say about your?

yourself or was it kind of just like let me say our three sentences that makes sense we didn't go and wing it that's what i was wondering yeah yeah it definitely is not like hey just go talk yeah yeah no there's i mean like our job as host is to be that middle ground between like giving the cast information about what they're supposed to do next we're also at the same time speaking to the audience right you know and kind of setting up the next scene so did you guys get to actively watch the speed dating or did you walk in and then walk out. Yeah, no, don't. We were the first full day we hung on. We were there all day. That's cool. We were watching all the people dating. And was it kind of like you could, could you could you actively hear every single conversation or was it kind of like you're poking around?

We were in like the control room for a lot of it. And they were kind of like bouncing, you know, into different conversations. And so like listening in on this, you know, there's producers everywhere listening to every conversation, right? And then they're like, oh, this person's interesting. click in. And so like executive producer would click into that conversation and listen to it. So you have the director and our showrunner, David Freeman, the executive producer. And then Rebecca and Jen, the executive producers, the creators of the show. You know, they're all watching, right?

And so there's there's various moments, you know, when they go into the kind of confessions. You know, they're watching that. They're like picking up on certain dates. They're bouncing around and trying to find like cool moments. Like immediately I knew Libby was a star. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The second she mentioned Taylor Swift, I was like she's one for the people.

When the guy she was talking to was like, yeah, I really love, what does he say, Desperado by the Eagles. Yeah. And then she's like, I love Taylor Swift. I was like, I'm David. And she was like, that's my dad's name. And he was like, do you like your dad? Yeah. I do think there's an important note given that I think people should know, you know, because we got to see John and Trisa go into the prime.

room at the end of episode one, they didn't fall in love in a day. Right. So the way we shot it, you know, all the promise rooms are happening at the same phase. But very like love is blind, right? Like as we've, as we've watched over the years, you know, they'll always show like an engagement at the end of episode one and the end of episode two and things like that. And then when we get to talk to cast, they're always talking about, even on the show, they're talking about this kind of like, they're talking about Proposal Day.

Uh-huh. Right. Oh, because it all happens on the same day. And I only pointed out because I don't think, I don't want people thinking that like John and Teresa are like not, didn't take the time to get to know each other and actually spend some, you know, go on these dates and the days that led up to, it was like a couple weeks.

That's a good little bit bit of, that first phase of the show. Now, obviously, like, we want to see John and Teresa. So, like, they're going to showcase, you know, this couple, you know, because obviously, again, so much of the show is to, explore these age differences, you know, to see someone like Teresa, this kind of youthful, beautiful woman who's like out there working and, you know, we don't know her age yet. But we, we know she's older, right? We just don't know how old dating this guy who, you know, clearly

younger than her, but they clearly have this instant, strong connection. And it's, you know, it's fun to watch. I was going to say what I found really fun was that I don't know their ages either. So it's kind of like we're blind to the experiment as well. And we're also guessing. We're just As the audience forced to watch it as just pure connections and then find out with them. No, I'm definitely glad they did it that way. I know there was like conversation. We were talking about. Probably. Like, how should we, should the audience be in on it?

You know, like, or should the audience also not know and be a shock for everybody? And I'm so glad they made. I'm so glad they did. I at first thought they maybe should show the ages, but they definitely made the right call. I like it better too because then it makes like little context clues stick out a little bit more. Like, for example, Teresa and John having that conversation about a league of their own. And then he was like, she's like, yeah, Madonna's in it. And he was like, yeah, oh my God.

A league of their own is one of my favorite movies. I'm sorry. When she said you have a lot to learn or I have a lot to teach you, that was so hot. I was like, by the way, Mary would throw everybody off in this experiment because she would know all the old references. And like, young and old people would be like, what is any of this stuff? You guys, if I walked into that sware, if there were some people there ready to make some drastic lifestyle changes, I think I could do pretty well. Wait, that's actually really good for season two. They should cast someone like Mary.

He's like an old soul who's really young, but knows so much more about any 60-year-old than any 60-year-old. But also a Swiftie, but also in Derry Manalo. Bob Dylan and Pink Panthers really have a lot in common if you think about it. I can't with you. They would be like, how old are you? You'd be the big question mark. You'll never know. And my glasses, they're not helping me out.

What did you think of Jorge referring to himself as PK? Pasture's kid. I love that I went. Yeah, Mary, you are a PK. I am. Have you ever referred to yourself as a PK? Not. I have never referred to myself as a PK.

I think a lot of other people around me and in my family did. But that is a known term. Oh, yeah. Pasture's kid. How? Do you think Jorge is? More than 10 years older than Vanel. He's giving like 52, 53?

What did you think of Justin and Vanel's kiss? The picnic table, the, uh, stop looking at me like that. Like, I'm feeling giddy like a kid. It's the suave. Because then he's calm in that moment. He's so, and it makes it hotter. That's why I said he, like, has, like, levels to him that I very much appreciate, right?

He's super vulnerable. He's super honest with, like, how he's feeling and, like, about himself. But then it's like, he has, like, this moment. where it's like all of a sudden this like unassumed swag came out and he was just like look at you and then when he leaned it for the kiss I know I was like that's the kind of like gusto I want to see from like a nice guy you know there's just not enough out out there I feel like um John and Teresa's first kiss was smooth too he was like I'm just going to go for it and I cleaned it I was like I like it especially her she loved that you know she's like thank you don't make me do anything

well we are excited to see you guys watch more episodes over the weekend but right now we have two of the daddies of age of attraction, Andrew and Derek are with us to talk about their initial experience on the show. Now, some of the things that you might hear in this interview will be referenced in the first five episodes. So a bit of a spoiler, for those of you who don't want to know too much about their ages or who they end up connecting with. But Andrew and Derek are up next. Andrew, Derek, welcome. Thanks for having us. How you guys? I'm sorry to see you guys. So I'd be here.

I'd be here for sure. Well, we've been asking everyone. Obviously, we've been talking to the whole cast. Kind of like the reasoning behind going on this show. Obviously, it's a different approach, something a lot of people may or may not have ever done before. So I guess, Andrew, what made you want to do age of attraction? So there was an opportunity that kind of fell into my lap. I didn't really go out seeking it.

And it was just like a really good time in my life. Like it was a time where I was able to step away from my business. And I think it was also just like a time where I was like looking for something. Like I was looking for a life experience, something different. I was single at the time. Again, I was able to step away from my business. And I just feel like everything just kind of came together and was like, okay, this is a good opportunity. Why don't you go take it and see what happens?

Derek, what about you? Yeah, same. It was an opportunity. Telling my lap, I've dated like all ages. So having a conversation, I'm like, this is kind of right up my alley. It should be somewhat natural. And I did want to step outside my comfort zone a little bit as well. I'd like been a year single, not really pressing today.

And I'm like, this will probably be a good experience. Maybe meet someone. We'll see how it goes. Well, both y'all have kids. You both have two, two girls, two boys. what was kind of the reaction of like baby mamas of like, hey, we're going to go on this show and date. That's crazy.

Date some people and you might watch it on Netflix. Yeah. So were they supportive or was it kind of like, you know what, do your thing? Yeah. So my oldest son's mom, like we have a great relationship. And he's 16. Like we've been just like buddies for over a decade, right? So my youngest son's mom, she was like,

back and forth. So she was like, yeah, great, go do it. And then I would get like a slick comment here like, great, you're going to go get married. Dom's going to have a stepmom. I'm like, where's this coming from? You know, but ultimately she was supportive. Supportive. And you have a good relationship with her. Yeah, we have a good relationship. I mean, I think she was as supportive as she could be given the circumstances. She's like, I'm not signing you up for that. She's like, I'm not going to be speaking on your behalf, but you can go. Funny story. They put her as my emergency contact. And they called, yes.

And they called her thinking she was my sister. And she was nice enough to be like, I'm not. She's like, I can pass along the number. But let me pass along a few numbers to you. So. That's funny. Yeah. But no, we have a great relationship.

And do I think she'll watch the show? I don't know. I don't think that she will. But she's always been super supportive of me and my dreams and business venture. and this, but do I think she'll watch. I'm not sure about that. You guys are like my fellow age ambiguous people, you know, where it's like, how old are you, Derek, you know?

You know. You look shockingly young. Yeah, somebody said I had plastic surgery. Really? Well, I can say from personal experience, get ready for the opinions about why you look the way you do that have nothing to do with your genetics or mortgirizing and yes people will take you care of yourself yeah people will have a lot of crazy things to say but um god forbid a guy has a good skin care routine right right why can't

you just take care yourself it's yeah um but what was your dating lives like prior to uh going on this show and specifically uh i imagine you guys have both dated younger women prior to the show and I'm just curious you know Andrew we got to see like when you found out about Libby's age you kind of had a oh not again kind of response so I you know I guess back to what my original question like what were you hoping for and did you assume that you might end up dating younger women or like what was your mindset going in and then I'm curious like I mean I went in like super open-minded but I also too probably in the back of

my head why it kind of took me a little bit to get there was that I was hoping to maybe find someone a little bit older and lean into that, but I mean, can't help who you like and who you end up falling with. My history previously, it was a little rocky, I guess, to say, like, kind of updated younger and older. I think what you get with younger sometimes is you're not at the same place in life. You're not at the same place emotionally. But then with the older, what I've found is it's kind of like a rush. Like, hey, you're here in your life. I'm here. Let's just do this. You're on like day two. And it's like, do you want kids? When do you want to get married? And I'm like, I want to see if we even like each other for the first month before we

like go down here. So I don't know. I was kind of in a place where like the last two were younger. do I try something different, but then also trying to stay open to it. So I think, you know, that's why I was, my reaction probably was like, oh, because, you know, the last two were younger and it didn't work. And it was because we were at different places in our lives. That's interesting that you mentioned that with both you being fathers. Like when I met Natalie, like I wasn't a father yet, and I always wanted to be one. And a big reason why we did work out is because now that I communicated very early, very early

on that she always had a desire to be a relatively young mom. And I was like, I'm ready to have kids as soon as I meet the right person. And so obviously that worked out. But for you guys, I'm curious, it must be a little different because you guys both have kids. I'm assuming it seemed the impression I got from both of you guys is that like maybe you're open to having kids, but like, if it didn't happen, you're like, I have, I got two kids and I'm really grateful for what I have. So you were more like kind of on the fence. I imagine when you were dating prior to this, for dating women who didn't have kids yet but wanted to have kids,

it was probably something that got pressed pretty early in those dating experiences. Yeah, yeah, it did. I'd say, same as I'm, I dated across the board. They typically are younger. It's just happened that way. And total transparency, I took like a year. year off from dating. Seriously, before the show, like, I did like the whole therapy thing because I'm like, at the end of the day, I'm the only constant in this. So I have to look at an eye and be

honest with myself and see some areas where I can improve. So when I came into the experience, you know, I was like, okay, these were the areas I'm weak and I can go into this open-minded and say, okay, this is what I need from a partner. And so it wasn't necessarily an age thing. like I won't positive energy. You know, I like conversation, someone that's doing things independently on their own, all of that. And as far as with kids, yeah, like you said, I was definitely open to having more. And we talked about it, Pfeiffer and I did on the show. So I would say Fyfers probably was very different than what I've dated overall.

But like those qualities, positive energy and things like that, that was what I was looking for. so yeah what about you what was the question I was just more curious about like yeah is the kids conversation with you guys being fathers how much did that come up

in the past no like in the past because again like I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes to like have kids be content I also I'll say this too I also dated someone that had kids like the year prior.

And so my thinking at that time was, okay, she's already had a kid. I already have kids. Don't have to worry about it. We're good. Then when we started dating, and I was like, shit, this is a lot.

Like, we have to implement a lot of kids. This house has got a lot bigger than I'm going to have to buy, right? So, like, maybe that may not be the road to go. That's a no for me. Like, I don't want to a joint family. Yeah. Like, I,

you have to accept my baggage, but like, I'm not. I'm sorry. Like, it's just, we all have our things, you know, like, that's my thing. Andrew, this might be the only interesting to me, you know, flatter myself. But, like, when you first met, you had mentioned that you, like, listened to Ask Nick episodes. Yeah. One, so thanks for listening.

But most of our audience is women. And so I'm curious, how did you discover async episodes and why? And I'm just, what made you interested in something like that? It's so crazy. I mean, even being here is like just a very surreal. It's very like a full circle moment for me. So it was, I guess, like three or four years ago, I was traveling back and forth a lot to Chicago. I was renovating a space out there with my ex-business partners.

And I was like going through a breakup and just it was a little toxic. And a friend of mine was like, you should listen to. Nick's podcast, and I'm like, who is this guy, Dick? And it is true. It's like mostly, like, advice for women, I would say, but I feel like it translates both ways. Yeah, I don't find it to be advice for women. It's mostly through my lived experiences. This is just mostly women calling in for and asking them for advice.

So I'm just... Yeah, so... Yeah, so... For me, it was just like, I loved how direct you were. And I think the advice is extremely relatable. And I just remember, like, the worst time is for me. me is like kind of when I was sitting at the airport and you have that time to think and you're on the airplane and your mind wants to wander to. The Wi-Fi doesn't work. Exactly. And you're

liking your thoughts. So just remember like always making sure I had an episode or two downloaded for the flight. And it just did. It got me through like a weird period in my life. And I feel like the advice that you were given, whether it was for, you know, a guy or someone calling in, which is again, mostly girls, like you said. But it was just like so direct and to the point. and you also are very good at calling out of fuck boy and there was just little tidbits in there that it's like okay that's where like I know I need to be better too so yeah that's how I got started so when I came walking

into the opening scene and I was like holy shit that's Nick I'm like this is very you know surreal and full circle for me. I like you know obviously like it's cool to have someone who listens to your your episode But specifically, the reason I just wanted to ask is because, you know, I think now that I talked about this while we were watching it, and I think something we're just proud of as being hosts of this show is that I think this show did a great job of casting some, like, high quality people with complicated pasts and interesting perspective on relationships. Certainly we're all imperfect. But, you know, I didn't know that you took a year off of dating and kind of focus on yourself and did some therapy. But, you know, and someone like yourself, like, regardless, you know, the fact that whether you thought my advice was helpful or not,

but, like, the intention that you had to, like, listen to that type of content, because we just don't see that from a lot of guys out there. Like, I, you know, I don't tailor my astatic episodes for women. I just tailor for anyone who's interested in this topic. And so I think it's cool to see the men that we cast at least, like, be reflective and be interested in, like, you know, just talking about their past behaviors or just reflecting on their past relationships and just like being vulnerable with that. I think it's not shocking to realize that after getting

to know you guys, but it's cool to see. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of great great group of guys. Yeah. A lot of great relationships. We develop like staying in touch with the guys afterwards. That was like one of the best things I say. For sure. For sure coming out of it. Like y'all remained pretty close. Absolutely. Yeah. And some of the stories, like, just learning from each other.

Yeah, that's great. What did you guys learn about yourselves for this experience? I would say the biggest thing that was like, it was also challenging was like cutting off the outside noise, disconnecting from your phone, social media, and all that, and just trusting your thoughts and your process, right? like not having your best friend or a friend telling you like she's too young or she's completely different or why the hell are you going through this at all did you find that helpful or almost did you feel like at a

disadvantage to not have some of the system at first at first I found it like a disadvantage at first like because I was it's so uncomfortable like it's so not not the norm but then after a while it's like it was just fight for an eye right so it's like I'm just trust in what we're going through together and I don't really give a shit about, you know, what anyone has to say about it. This is, this is what I chose and I trust it. So, probably that I wasn't showing up in relationships, like how I needed to show up. For example, in past relationships, I'm always, I'm always the one that, like, needs. I need them to, like, show up for me. I need them to, like, give, give, and I'm over here. Like,

I don't give too much until they're ready to like kind of go. And then I'm like, oh, no, like I'll open up more. I'll be more vulnerable. I'll change this. I'll change that. You know, that wasn't going to work with Libby. Like I almost had to be the one giving to get her to feel secure and get her to feel safe and be able to be vulnerable with me. So I think for me, it was like I, you know, if you want to have a healthy relationship, if you want someone to meet you, you have

to meet them halfway. And I don't think that I probably did that. Well, actually not probably. I didn't do that in past relationships until it was at a point where it's like, okay, now I have to. And that wasn't sincere either. You're not really showing up when someone's leaving. You're just doing it kind of to save it.

So I think that was it of like you need to show up in for relationships, how your partner does and meet them halfway. A great answer. I appreciate that. I'm curious, while filming, were there any moments where you felt like Libby was really meeting you at your level and demonstrating that she could be someone that you could really rely on and emotionally connect with? You know, I don't know how much you'll see on the show, but like we would stay up until 3, 4 a.m., just, you know, talking about our childhood and our parents and just like things that are, you know, more deep than probably some of the surface level banter that you'll see between the two of us. of us. And, you know, it just, she hides behind the jokes and, you know, but there's definitely like another side to her that's like deep once you kind of get her to feel safe with you.

There was also a moment you open up to her about your past playing soccer. Her response to that, I felt like, that was, I remember Nick and I were like, period, Libby. Like she, she really showed that side in that moment. And I think that really showed just her. depth and it was just she just gave you really good advice yeah liby would give me great advice during the show she uh she surprised me quite often yeah because i mean that's what i've learned in my relationship with with natalie but yeah like you just they have to be your equal like it's you know yeah again i don't care what age you are a man woman if you're attractive you can get along for a period of time. Yeah. You know, and you can have a wonderful fun weekend, but for a relationship to really

work and have it be meaningful. Like, you have to respect each other and you have to be able to go to that person for advice and they have to, you know, they truly have to be your equal. And it's, you know, part of this, you know, show is kind of exploring these relationships, obviously. And it was fun to see you guys kind of figure that out along the way. Derek, what did you, think of in the trailer when Pfeiffer's mom's like, you hated babysitting. Yeah, that was hilarious. So I learned a lot from just talking to her before meeting her mom and dad that she said, like, this is so against what I've been, like what my parents know me to be.

You know, so they'll probably have a lot of questions if it's them that are. For me, my early 20s, I was trying to live up to the expectations I set for myself when I was a teen. You know, when you're a teenager, you're like, I'm going to do this. I'm not going to do that or blah, blah, blah. And then life happens. And when sometimes we have these like moments for like, I promise myself. I think as we get older, we're like, promise myself. I don't know.

I'm going to deal with fucking tomorrow. Did she feel a little bit younger relative to maybe other women you had dated? Yeah, inexperienced in some areas, I'd say. Because I was just, I'm just more a goal with the flow. If you really, you know, have a connection, you could make it work. So I just wanted to just focus, like, on our process. That was, like, the message I was trying to convey to her, like, I know you have this checklist that you need to get down, but let's worry about making each other stronger.

And then we can get to the checklist together, right? On the flip side, though, I know when Natalie moved here, it was definitely a transition. Yeah. We had to, like, you know, I took things for granted. I was living in Georgia. I completely uprooted my life. I knew nobody here. I had only been here once.

That's different, Georgia. I had no friends. I only knew him. I was like, I guess I'll get an apartment. And then I'm like, well, then I'll, I only know you. So I'll be your house every day. I'm a waste of money. So like, you know.

Yeah. Well, we appreciate you guys coming and stopping by. It's great to catch up with you both. Excited to see how things unfold for you both with both the relationships we're getting to watch. And thanks for being part of this. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Yes, enjoyed it. Thanks. Thank you.

In person, these two men are very striking, I will say. They could literally be cast in like Riverdale and I wouldn't bat an eye. Yes, they could play high school. They could totally play high school students. On the CW High School. Yes. Specifically. I literally see that.

That's so accurate. That is so niche and so accurate. It's so true, right? Because they all look like that. Yeah. Listen, and like I said last week, solid guys. Yeah. We found out Derek before coming on this show,

took a year off of dating and got into therapy. I love that. You know? Just things weren't working out for him. And then Andrew listening to Ask Nick. Andrew, like, was an avid ask Nick listener. Did he ever call in? No.

He was like, I took a lot of flights, and I just would like make sure I always had a couple episodes to unload it before the flights. And like, listen, regardless of, of, you know, obviously I'm flattered, he listened to me. But like, you know, most, like I said to Andrew, like most of our listeners and our callers are, our women and I honestly think it's a huge green flag for you know men like Andrew and Derek to like on their own as single men like listen to content that like might like help them like process their emotions and feelings like that's something I wish more men would be open to doing and I think it just speaks to like yeah the it seems like they we have some high high quality guys yeah Nick I feel

like you hit the jackpot with these two at least I'm excited to see more of the rest of the men but these are two men that are like doing the work to find what they need versus like testing things out to figure out what they want. You know what I mean? Well, we did have the love is blind reunion last night. I thought it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, someone stormed off within the first five minutes. So I had to rewind. I was like, wait, hold on what did I miss? And I love, love Amber. She's one of my favorites, but I was just like, wait. Well, speaking of Amber, we are excited to announce that tomorrow we do have a going deeper with Amber and Brittany. Amber is in studio with us.

Brittany joins as well. We really unpack the divorce between Jordan and Amber. We get into the whole like wedding accusation. I will say I'm excited to hear more of what Amber says because I did feel a little confused after watching the reunion exactly what happened there with the car and the wedding. I was a little confused. Yeah, well, she unpacks it and my jaw is on the floor. Her and Brittany, I'm like, both of them, like, their storylines. I feel like there was stuff that I was missing, the whole girl code and Priyanka and the trip to the concert.

I was like. To Austin. That was also very confusing. The work trip that you're actually sleeping in a girl's room and then the girls didn't tell you, which I get they didn't know. But like. But they're all very close. No, no, no, no, no, no. He said he was going to have an Airbnb ready.

Which is worse. But also, I, like, am I alone here that these, like, I know Priyanka said several times, like, we are not close. Yeah. We are not close. we are not close. So I don't blame her because they are not close. No, you're right. But Ashley and Bree, I feel like they are. And the fact, like, the second that my friend's man is like, oh, I'll come with you, like, okay, well, then I'm texting my friend and being like, your fiancee wants, it's gonna come up. Even if it's not even like red flag for me, like, if we're friends, we're talking,

like, oh my God, yeah, I'm headed out to Vegas or wherever they were. You're gonna know. No, Greg's going. Are you coming? Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's just, the way that there was like no communication between these people at all made zero sense whatsoever. You're not close. There's no way I go on a trip right with Mary and Connor comes and I don't tell Sierra about it. That's crazy. And then no but imagine

imagine if there were rumblings that like Sierra and Connor were like you know not getting along or like you know maybe there's some like are they calling off their wedding. Oh my God you guys reach out to Sierra? You're not like hey babe I'm with your man. and he's like kind of saying that y'all caught it off are you okay well then brie under her breath was like why did i need to even tell her anything i'm like what you didn't know harvey like i didn't know i had to ask permission yeah yeah yeah ask permission you're just a bad fucking friend i would also be texting being like hey girl um your man's trying to stay at my Airbnb

it's a little weird like is he good literally like can we get a hotel you know what probably happened was because devante was like yeah we were just hanging out and then they mentioned it and then i was like i'm going i feel like it was one of those things where you're like yeah you can come but you don't actually invite the person or like you would think maybe he no pictures would go no you'd think like right right that's weird suspicious really how did that happen suspicious no stories no nothing y'all follow each other on a single like concert post fit pick getting ready to a concert and was off the grid that is a really good work but the girls post pictures and he's conveniently not in it yeah it's sketchy as Fuck. Also, the fact that, like, it was the three of them who had that conversation with Chris about Jess.

And, like, when he was like, I just got to tell you all. Like, she just, like, told me she was a professional dancer. And, like, she just, like, doesn't work out. She doesn't do anything. And I just, like, can't get off. And they were all like, well, she's not morbidly obese. Yeah. Oh, my God.

She's also, like, not even close. That is not how you defend the friends. And you know, I actually owned up to it. And that's what I appreciate when she was like, you were so right. Like, I did not do that the right way. We should have been better friends. Like, so sorry. That was what needed to be said, and I'm glad you.

Listen, spoiler. Listen to the episode with Amber and Brittany. Bree's the real villain. Whoa. That's a story. Spoiler. That shot's fired. No, you've got me.

Clickbait. I'm in. No, I have so many questions. I'm seated. This is honestly for me, and I may be wrong, the first love is buying reunion in a while where the women are divided amongst themselves because I feel like usually it's like women versus men.

Like this was also like the girls were all. we're all one bad apple. Well, the girls have their own, like, alliances. Like, you can see, like, it's Amber, Jess, and Brittany, and then it's, like, Ashley, Priy or whatever. And Devante. And Devonte. Devo.

Wait. Devo. Yeah. No, when she said Devo, I was like, oh. Oh, they're close. And, like, God bless Vanessa. But, like, Vanessa really trying to be in on the friend group. And she goes, okay, so when you were with Devo, and I was like, girl, you just

heard that tonight. I know. Like, if that is your nickname, why did we never, like, I, like, she, like, like, Brie introduced us as, as, as, We heard that, you know. Sparkle Meg, we heard that. You know, we get the nickname sometime. Never heard that.

It felt very personal for Bree to be like, well, when we were out with lunch with Devo and we were like talking. It's casual. Yeah. Yes. But also, we've been talking about Alex being the great liar. The level of confidence and sloppiness for Devante to tell his maybe fiance, maybe girlfriend, hard to say from, well, I mean, Ritney, it seems like she's. doesn't really know where they stand because he's not really being honest about where they stand but to lie about going to a different state for a work trip and then go to a different state

with like you know friends i don't know what this relationship but clearly this group talks yeah and to think that's not going to come up yeah yeah while simultaneously asking these girls you're hanging out with to like clearly like not post pictures or you know he also just like never even really owned up to that No, he's just kind of like, yeah, you know, I allowed him to know. What did he say where he was saying something like, there was a couple weeks where we were off and then I decided to go or something. Like, I was like, wait, hold on. That's a detail that doesn't fit into anybody's story at this point. Yeah, that feels like something you told yourself to like, you ghosted her for two weeks.

And then you're like, oh, no, we're rogan up. What I really love about love is blind is you really get to see the way people lie. Mm-hmm. The way that he, Devante caught with his pants down and didn't expect Daddy to get the microphone. The dad. He was like, yeah, he was like, did you lie to me? And he's like, I'm sorry. Question after question after question.

It wasn't even like, okay, cool. And I loved that moment. It was like you said this, but. I said, yeah, I give Britney's dad her moment because that was a really cute bonding moment between the two of you. And if you were acting that whole time, knowing that you weren't going to marry her. Yeah. When the line of the parents. Get him, daddy.

But dad also did it with grace. Like, he wasn't super like mean, but he was just straight up. Like, he was asking literal questions. And he even said, he's like, I feel terrible about the hate that you're getting. But you need to get your shit together. And I was like, that's great advice from an older man. Well, after talking to Amber. and I don't want to give too much away.

And it's definitely he said she said in terms of like a bit of a divorce. But like his choice to accuse Amber of what he accused her of at the reunion depending on what you believe from Amber's point of view when you listen to the episode is real. It was really dirty.

Is this the wedding situation? He accused her of like basically having a drinking problem. Yeah. And being kind of like a... And then like wanting to drive home drunk so much so that he had to take her She, like, humiliated him in front of wedding while he was the best man.

Yeah. And keep in mind, this is a mother. Uh-huh. You know, and he's making some pretty serious accusations on national television. Yeah. She clears up a lot. She definitely clears up a lot. I'm excited to watch.

I love Amber. She was honestly one of my favorites of the season and especially, like, I say this would love, take a shot every time Amber says she hates Chris. Because that was crazy. That was hilarious. She split it in every single thing back to back. I don't hate you. You're not the same.

the same kind of guy as Chris. Like, sorry, like, I don't hate you, but I hate you. My favorite part of Tomorrow's GD is when we talk to Brittany about the Devante of it all and obviously, like, post, you know, wedding and we, you know, get some details. And then obviously the fake trip or fake work trip. And we have Amber giving, like, color commentary throughout. Oh, my God.

That's great. And Amber and her eye man. Yeah. No, it's really, it's really great. What did they say when they were like, yeah? Amber started the show being like, I hate men. And now she's back at, I hate men. Yeah.

I did appreciate Nick, uh, kind of coming for Chris. Yeah. Which like was deserved for sure. Yeah. You said, you put my hometown to shame. Honestly, get it together. And also just, she's winning. Yeah.

Like she didn't even have to look at Chris in the eyes when he was apologizing. And then she has a healthy relationship. Like, oh, and he said his little like owed to her. Like, just like, you're beautiful. You're amazing. Like every day that I spend with you, I was like, thank you for making Chris, who's already small. That much smaller.

No, Sierra, the difference between like how we saw Chris treat Jess and then just a glimpse of how her partner and I was treating her. Like, like, that's when you know, like, that's like go through the storm because it's worth it on the other side. You know what I mean? What did, uh, y'all think of Gigi and AD getting the mic? I love AD. I love AD.

I love AD. It's this 10th season, so it made sense, like, thematically, narratively to like, you share with past members and have... I actually really liked that they brought back all 154, I believe it was, past cast members. Didn't they say that? They said it was a cast full of all past... Or sorry, it was a room full of all... Yeah.

Yeah. I like that they did that. I think it's a great way to celebrate 10 years. I also loved Zach and Bliss revealing the gender with his... That was beautiful. ...grandmother. Yeah, I liked that they incorporated some of them because also, like, I loved some of their reactions when it came to like talking about Chris.

And then we added Christine and Vic to the happily married couples because like they're my favorite thing that's come out of this season. I'm glad they get a trip. I know from TurboTax? Yeah. The way I was terrified, I literally went to Christine's page and she posted her reunion look and I think they obviously make them not wear rings

or whatever in the photos. But I didn't see a ring on her hand and like literally like I was devastated. I was like, oh my God, no. No, I didn't see a ring on her hand, but her and Vic were matching. No, they're perfect, but like the way that they were leading into the reunion was like, are they, aren't they? Devo and Brittany were also matching. Yeah.

I also thought that was kind of shitty of them to sit Ashley and Alex next to each other. Sitting all of them next to each. The only person they separated was Jess and Chris, which like stand by that. But like, why not the rest of them? Ashley looked so uncomfortable. She's literally like stiff as a board on the very edge of the couch while Alex is just like it. Like, sorry, Alex saying like seeing as soon as the reveal happened, seeing she was was the first domino to fall.

Why are you here? Your taste is that specific that that is the first domino to fall when you realize, oh, she has blonde hair. That's creepy. Love is blind isn't for you, babe. It's giving the man didn't know what his next job was going to be. So he got on national television and hopes that that blows up for an opportunity to take him to his next nomadic adventure.

The way he spoke to Vanessa. Yeah. Oh, my God. And she was like, well, I'm trying to have. have an actual conversation with you. Like maybe you should show a little bit of vulnerability and say, I don't know sometimes. He's like, well, you want me to act like

I don't know? It was giving how Tom Sandoval spoke to you. I was, yeah, I was waiting for a dude to pop out of there like, yeah, dude. He also dressed like he was, got done at a high school reward, like soccer, like, you know, at the end of season

reward or the soccer coach wears khakis and a polo. Yep. Yeah. And the weird like semi reveal that Devonte and him are semi kind of roommates but they like play goalie soccer together but I thought also Devante was engaged in having a baby so why is he living with Andrew?

We do have Alex coming up here shortly when we wrap up our love is blind commentary I was curious what you had to say and I got to say the roommate situation between him and Devante even more confused after talking to Alex awesome I'm also curious Nick to be devil's advocate I'm like maybe they're

some one detail that could make sense. We do get an interesting answer as to why he showed up, the sheveled, for his wedding. It wasn't an accident. All right, well, up next, we got Alex. Alex, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

How are you doing, man? How has this whole experience been for you? It's been a wild ride so far. Honestly, overall, kind of just turning the internet off and just enjoying the friends and family that are in my corner at the moment. Well, that's smart to do. Obviously, you've been under, not controversy, but the audience has had a lot to say and have lots of opinions about your time on the show.

I'm curious, does it feel like all just completely wrong or unfair, or is there a party that looks back and at least, you know, while maybe obviously the internet isn't really objective, but have you learned anything about yourself from watching it back that you thought, okay, well, maybe this is something I can see where they're coming from and maybe I need to address. A hundred percent. I mean, I've learned a ton throughout the process. I do think there's probably some inaccuracies in the editing, but I think the biggest thing that I've learned is really just patience with my storyline. I think I have a very complicated past. And if I'm in a relationship, you know, instead of waiting for her to kind of come through and ask these questions and try and

figure out what my timeline is, obviously, you know, identify a trigger point in her past and maybe pull her aside proactively and just explain, hey, this is obviously. issue for you. Let's go through it together because this is kind of, you know, what I've gone through. So just being a little bit more proactive in my storyline and as open as possible is probably the biggest thing I've learned. What were some things that you left out or maybe weren't proactive with that you felt ended up being some of Ashley's bigger triggers? Yeah. So I think the biggest one realistically, I catch myself saying that word all the time now. I think the biggest one is the Austin girlfriend timeline. I think that one, I tried. I tried.

because I didn't really know, you know, I'm coming on to the Ohio version of Love is Blind. I'm also in and out of Ohio. I was living there for two years while also going to Austin. I didn't know how to explain that very well. And I tried just to avoid that to not get into the weeds with an ex-girlfriend, which I could have just been a little bit more proactive with. That ex-girlfriend, the last time that we saw was, I saw that it was like November, which is four months before the show. I didn't really think it was that big of an issue to dive into. But I think, again, that's one that I probably could have been more proactive, especially with somebody like Ashley who brings a little bit of, I think, trust issues to the relationship, I can be more proactive and fix that. I think there's been a lot of conversations this season, well, every season, but specifically this one is asking why some of the people we see, it's just like, well, why did you go on love is blind? Because obviously, you know, none of you really know what this experience is until you get there.

But after watching it, whether it's you having kind of that nomadic life or you being seemingly incredibly into Burnett's compared to blondes or, say, Devante, having his kind of very specific interest or Chris, it seemed like just some of the things that you guys, you men specifically said, well, okay, fair enough, you feel or think this way. But if that's the case, like, why bother with this show was kind of the thought and feeling that many of us had watching it back? 100%. And I think the way that this show is advertised is as an experiment, right? Like, we're here, to really try and figure out is love truly blind. And for us, I won't speak for the rest of the venture for myself, I'm really diving in to see,

can you get past, you know, again, Ash is an objectively beautiful woman. Obviously, that doesn't really need to be said, but can you get past the fact that she's not your original type? And I went through this experiment trying to test that out completely because in my past, I have dated solely, you know, the women that I find physically attracted, which has led me to be a little bit more physical than emotional. I wanted to see if this experiment could help me understand where the emotional should rank in a relationship. And that's one of the things I learned as well is I think they're both needed and they're both equal.

So for me to go on the show is really just to test that and see if my wife is there. So it wasn't really about like actually marrying the person that you met. It was more so just like, can I get past this thing that I have gone for time and time again in my past? Well, I wouldn't say that. No, because I think the overall goal is to get married, and I wanted to get married. But I think that experiment that you go through is really to see if you can get to that point. Okay. Did you ever get to the bottom of, I think, was it your grandma's story? When you were talking to Ashley's dad and you were kind of talking a little bit about just your family history,

your timeline made it seem like your grandma was 16 years old when she had your mom or dad, I'm not sure. And then your response was, well, that was what, that's the story I was told. Did you get to the bottom of that? 100%. So that one's just me misspeaking candidly. I grew up in an environment where Christian science was my religion with my stepfather. And in that religion, we were not allowed to celebrate birthdays. So birthdays and ages have been something that I'm very, I'm learning still.

My mistake there was to answer the question and try and say what I didn't know. Candidly, they're a much later on in life is when they passed on. So they were not 16 or 14. Okay. I think another thing that I've learned here is maybe take a pause. and you don't have to have all the answers. I do have a complicated storyline, and it's one of those that you just take a break here,

take a second, not knowing is potentially an okay answer. A lot of people are commenting on your beard at the wedding, as if it was a dead giveaway that you knew you were not going to get married. You look clean-shaven now. I'm just curious, like, what was that? What was up with that very unkept beard in a tuxedo?

Yes. So some of that was actually on purpose on my end. I did think ahead of time, because I did have a conversation with Ashley, that it was going to be a no for me ahead of time. But this was not really my real, you know, wedding. And it was one of those that I don't want, I want to save something from my wife, my real wife that I actually get married to. And I didn't walk my mom down the aisle for a reason. I didn't shave for a reason. I didn't go to the barber for a reason. And yes, the jacket is two size too big. It's a trench coat, really. And I didn't really fix that for a reason. The fuzz in my beard is accidental. That was just the You didn't place the fuck. But everything else was kind of a almost, it's like you were you, it's like you agreed to do the ceremony, but you were protesting everything else, basically. I don't want to say protesting. It was more, I do want to save some things for for my actual wife. Like I do think like actually walking my mom down the aisle and showing up correctly is something that I do want to actually have. And in my. real wedding. I knew ahead of time this wasn't going to be it. So not really a protest, but just more saving it for her. Reactions to the sex conversation were not received well. Looking back, do you wish you had worded that differently? Which one? A hundred percent candidly for all of them.

I think the period conversation is one that I really didn't want to have. I start that conversation off with logistics. And I think there's a lot of context in the pods that are kind of missed on that subject. And then when we get into that conversation, I'm completely out of my depth. And that's an example of, hey, maybe I don't really know what I'm talking about here. Let's move on to something else. You kind of stood on 10 toes down of like Ashley should have waited for you to get back to have sex after the like mud rubbing mud all over each other date, even when she felt like you kind of walked out on her. You still stand by that? To an extent, I think the way that that comes off probably comes off a little sharper than it really needs. to be. I think what we're really getting at is the amount of intimacy that we were having at that point. And the point that I'm really making there is if you want more intimacy from me, you need to

initiate it. Because I'm initiating here at this point. Obviously in Mexico, we did that plenty. So again, it probably came off sharper than it needed to, but I needed more from her in that category if she wanted more. At what point for you, did you kind of come to the conclusion that you weren't going to say yes at the altar? It's interesting. So they show the interrogation from like the meeting of the dad. I think I got through that still thinking maybe there's something that we can do. Like maybe I can work through that. I think it was after meeting her friends.

I met probably eight of her friends at once. And at that point, I was just kind of like everyone's still trying to jump on my past a little bit. I don't think we're getting past that. So I think it's probably two or three. I don't know when that was four or five days before the wedding. Not just yourself, but a lot of your male peers have also been under fire this season.

And I am curious, well, one, like, what do you think of, some of your other peers, specifically Chris and Devante. I know Devante is your new roommate now. Just as the way men are talked about on this show and just in culture as a whole, do you appreciate some of the frustration that a lot of the women viewers and audience members are saying about you guys, or do you think that you guys are all misunderstood? Well, to say all of us are misunderstood, I'm not sure. I think there's definitely a lot of misunderstandings between both men and women, just in general. I think we definitely are getting,

somewhat of an unfair edit throughout, but at the same time, I do think there's some ways for us to learn. I think we all need to leave room for growth for us as men and for them as women. We're all asking for grace at this point, so I think it's all the way around. What was your understand?

Were you living with Devante when he lied to Brittany about that work trip and then went to that concert? No, so right after the show, like the day after the show, I moved to Florida and got a job down there for a few months. and then got a second job out in Arizona, probably five months after that. So that was, that occurred at that time

when I was in Florida. Okay. And I don't need your address, but you guys live in Ohio now, you and at Devante? I'm in Scottsdale at the moment. I think, I don't wanna say where Devante is, but he's not here currently.

Because I just wanna speak for him, but I'm in Scottsdale at the moment. Okay, but that roommate situation is happening in Arizona? It has been, I mean, it's one of those I've traveled through LA, Austin, Cleveland, like Florida throughout the year, he's traveling at times. So you guys just have like a shared residence? Exactly, exactly.

What would you say to your friend Devante? I am curious just out of, let's say you were in the same room with Devante at the time where that was going down. What would you have said to Devante as his friend about how he should move when it comes to that situation? Can you just re-explain? So from the Austin situation, is that what you're doing? Yeah, so when he was telling Brittany that, hey, I'm going to a work trip in Michigan, but in reality, he went on a five-day trip to Austin with some of the women from the season and lied to Brittany. He clearly was going on with the lie. And I'm just curious, like, what would you have said as

his friend if you were aware that he was making this decision in real time? Well, if those were the actual, like, parts of the decision, then I think it's a different conversation. I'm just not fully certain as to that that's how that entire situation went down. So I don't want to comment on what I would tell him because I'm not fully aware of everything that happened. Do you have a, I think from my own experience, I would just say from my own experience with, obviously, Austin in particular city, be as open as you possibly can and just basically give a timeline. This is what I'm thinking and be as transparent as you possibly can because the truth kind of always comes out. Yeah. Like, are you hearing a different version from Devante?

Not from Devante specifically. We've really talked about that. Like from my seeing everybody and knowing everybody because we're friends outside of this, it didn't really seem like that. big of a deal to me. It was like, hey, I thought you and Brittany were over. You're going to go hang out with people from the show. You guys are going to Austin. Enjoy the concert. That's how I looked at it. But again, I'm not really that close to it. Fair enough. It was weird that he was clearly obviously not taking pictures and was hanging out at that group while they were posting and he wasn't posting. That does come across. There's a lot of rules that we don't know, to be honest with you. As this stuff comes out, it's like, I don't know who I can post and

what I can post and when. Sure. And I don't want to defend anyone else. Like I'm not trying to be defensive here. It's just we don't really know what we're doing. Gotcha. The conversation that Chris had at that mixer where he was talking to Brie for quite some time and talked about Connor not being dominant and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

He went into the bathroom with you and continued to shit on Connor. I don't know if maybe you and Connor just aren't friends, so you didn't feel the need to kind of stand up for Connor. but what was your reasoning for going along with that disrespectful conversation that he was having with you? Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I say in there is I basically just affirm what he's saying. And I've already spoken to Connor with about this.

I'm very close with Connor and Bree. It was one of those situations where I can see Chris, you know, self-destructing here. And I'm also aware that Priyanka's just walked into the room and I'm going to have to have a very difficult conversation anyway to where it's one of those, okay, I'm just going to sit here and let you talk. And I'm going to start focusing on what I need to focus on because I can't handle you and what you're doing here and the rest of the dynamic. I have so much stuff to deal with. So I'm going along in the sense of just don't bother me. Let me do my thing. And yes, it looks as though I'm siding with him when in reality it counters my boy. When did you know Priyanka and you were going

to be on the season together? Like, was that like when y'all started dating in the pods? So like I do of her before the pods. And obviously in the pods, we figured it out together. I mean, It's a small world. Obviously, I was in Austin ahead of time with my ex-girlfriend for a little bit back and forth. We ran into each other there. I didn't really speak about the show, though. The fact that you, like, seemed to refuse to want to live in Ohio, was that already kind of a weird casting for you, given that, like, love is blind the show itself.

Part of the reason why they cast regionally is to help the relationships that end up in relationships have a better chance of succeeding. You have a very unique. story with you being a nomad, but on top of you being a nomad, it was like, I will live, I'll live anywhere but Ohio. I am just care, how did you end up? Was that, were those conversations you had with casting in general and, and were you concerned right off the bat that that might be an issue for anyone you ended up with? Great question. I don't remember that being part of like the casting conversations. I do remember a lot of context in the pods, like Ashley and I get a little bit,

you know, deep in this sense of she didn't want to live in Ohio either. So that was a an attractive quality, right? Like, if you're trying to leave as well and have a family somewhere else, but come back and visit Ohio, we can make that work. I didn't really think about it ahead of time, because I would have made the sacrifice if the right woman was there to live in Ohio for a time being and, you know, go from there. You filmed Love's Blind Win about a year ago, give or two? Yeah, right. Yeah, around that last February. So about a year ago, part of your five-year plan was to have an amazing house, I think, in Florida. And then you were going to have a trust in Dubai. I'm not sure what that is and then a safe house in New Zealand.

Were you just kind of fucking around? You seem like you were saying it seriously, but also what is the safe house in New Zealand? And how is that all coming along now that we're a year into that five-year plan? 100%. So first and foremost, like I like to dream big, obviously. I wanted to be an athlete when I was a kid. I don't mind, you know, going after these things. What I've realized, though, is it's really not that difficult to do. Like, you can go start up a company in the DIFC in Dubai and they will give you residency. Okay.

If you do it correctly. So that, I mean, is doable. You need more capital for sure. I do have dual citizenship with New Zealand. I have lived over there. I did get my Tomoko over there. So I call a safe house. It's not like, hey, I'm a billionaire building a bunker going to live there. It's just a place that I can go outside of the U.S. if things, you know, hit the fan. I had a place that I can take my family to and go live freely. Is it going well? Yeah. Like I'm building towards that absolutely. Do I have a little bit more than five years to go to actually create that? No doubt. But I like the dream big. So that's what I said. I appreciate that. Wouldn't it might be hard to get to the other side of the world if shit hits the fan?

Not if you have the passport stuff set up ahead of time. And then on top of that, one of the things that people don't know is my mom worked for United for 20 years. So all of these flights all around the world were, I mean, realistically close to being free or free. So it is doable. Okay. Any final thoughts, Alex? What do you want to leave the people, the audience with now that we kind of wrap up season 10? Honestly, just thank you for being fans. Thank you for watching. I had a blast getting to know Ashley and everyone else on the show. It was a good experiment. I learned a lot. And hopefully you guys know that I'm a real person. Okay. Alex, we appreciate taking the time. Best of luck with everything, including all the houses and stuff. and yeah just good luck out there and I appreciate your time man

I appreciate it guys I thank you to you Alex so Alex didn't shave his beard because he knew he wasn't going to say yes to actually he wanted to save that for his wife which is even worse of a way to say it crazy I was like you couldn't that can you imagine I'm like did you not just prove

everything Ashley said at the altar of like the inconsistency and like I just feel like I don't know like what's interesting is like, there's just some things I want to save for my wife. And it's like you think it'd be like, like, getting dressed. Your virginity. But yeah, like, I want to save myself before. Buying my first house. My tucks was too big.

My beard was scraggly. Yeah, but he's like, those are the things that I wanted to save for my future wife. I'm like, she is going to appreciate. Oh, yeah. What an honor. I saw something that the success rate of love is blind is. 3.5% of all couples. Out of 100? Not terrible.

Well, that's what I would say. People like framed it as like terrible success rate. But like, what's the success rate of dating apps? Yeah. But I was also going to say that I'm like, you're talking about people that are like married for multiple years having, like you know what I mean? Like it's not like, oh, we stayed together for a year after Love Island to like for brand deals. It's like these people are actually like married having a life together.

But more importantly, I'm assuming that 3.5% is based off. of like to total cast members who show up to start the season versus how many at the end of the season end up in marriage. Which I feel like we don't even know how do you know how many people start off on love is blind?

Probably 40-ish. It's like 40-yeah, I mean, out of those odds and then we only really see like what, five couples? And for three of them to work out. You're meeting total strangers that you don't get to see at first. Yeah, honestly, three point five percent

out of how many people. That'd be like a dating. Yeah, again, it's like, it's like, The amount of people that go on dating apps or whatever that are supposed to be for marriage that don't want marriage and just want hookups that I'm like for a reality TV show with one of the most, I don't know, unnatural concepts I guess is like where I'm like these people are actually signing up because they want to be married. There's no way that the dating apps can turn, you know, like all the people you match with. In 30 days, find your husband. Forget about timeline. But like how many people are you matching with?

If you had a 3.5% chance of meeting your husband on a dating app, I think that would be incredible. So there is an article that says that success rate of like meaningful relationships from a dating app is 2.5%. So it's a whole percent higher. So technically you're more likely to find love on love is blind than dating apps. Dating apps. Period. Which feels honestly as someone on dating apps, true. Well, as Teresa was saying in Tuesday's episode of Reality Recap, she's like,

It is like the apps are scary. You don't like have like, you know, she's like going on this show. I knew these people were going through background tracks. Like I knew I was going to be in a safe environment around safe men. And like that I don't know from dating apps. So like she's like I feel like this is the new way of dating is like just get yourself on a dating show. And like you're meeting people who like, yeah, you have to deal with like, you know, are they looking for fame or things like that? But there's some intentionality for all the people who.

show up to these shows open to like making a connection versus like people you're meeting on the apps which is like they're just playing hot or not you don't even know how serious they are they even want to meet up you know willingness to like go grab a cup of coffee or a drink you know you know there's just a lot of like people are you even want to date are you actually trying to are you just on the apps for whatever you know like there's no free dinner yeah yeah do you know how many times it'll be like you'll be like having a great time jad with someone on Hinge and then you're like okay you want to go get drinks never hear from them again how many times does that happen mary i think i think for anyone listening who's ever been on the

apps i think there's not a single person who wasn't like yeah that every single person is guess what i've done it to other people no we all yeah it's like sometimes someone will like be like do you want to hang out and i'm like no why would i want to wait you're real you're not a chat bot yeah i would refuse yeah i would assume that i'd be set up with dexter that's why i never got on them What's the success rate of summer house relationships? Summerhouse kind of is like speed dating, is it not? It's like invite all the friends have them like. It's an entertaining season.

I love how it started off with Bailey being like, I am going to like shoot my shot with Ben. Dara is with KJ. I am going all in on Ben and then makes the most wild statement. Wild statement. Well, I think she was trying to flirt. Well, that's not a way. I don't feel like.

will say I love Bailey. I think she is so sweet. I feel so sad that her heart got broken that some guy ruined her self-esteem to a point where she can't even hear herself anymore. Wait, wait, wait. Who ruined herself? Her ex. The sweet green girl. I just want to make sure. No, no, no, but like, that's where I was like, it's so sad that her idea of, like, she can't hear herself flirting or, like, hear that that that would be, like, a wild statement that, like, maybe Ben wouldn't be down with. She's nervous. She makes her nervous. She said last episode, she's like, I don't even know how to, like, I know or talk anymore. To your point. Yeah. So that's where I was like, I don't know. But This is like bringing in a third party, a married couple into this like equation of like you want to fuck your man's life.

Yeah. Like bad flirting is being like. I like your eyebrows. I think you're sorry. Did you do it yourself? You know, which is like. But she said that like I think she hears them joke about things and they did it in the episode. So it's like she's not crazy.

Well, I'll push back there and say every example she gave of them doing the joke was just her. projecting being like, why is he giving you a towel? Why is he picking you up out of this thing? Why is he bringing you coffee in the morning? Like, that all should be your husband. Which is giving you're obsessed with Ben and you're watching his every move. Sure. Yeah.

Exactly. She's nervous. She has a crush. She's a jealous. And the words came out and I think she didn't mean for them to. Honest mistake for sure. But I mean, again, Ben was certainly direct and he was obviously upset, but he wasn't yelling. I think it makes sense that he was, like this wasn't the first time she has said something.

And I think that's why it had gotten to that point. Like him being like, am I doing something that's making everyone question like my behavior and like mine and like that now I'm like in my head. Like am I being weird. So he's like I need to figure out like what's going on. And Bailey kind of suggested that everyone is in on this conspiracy that Ben wants to have sex with Amanda. So yeah, He's like, it's the whole everyone's talking about a kind of energy where he's like upset about this. And yes. And in that conversation, she was just like, you guys joke about it all the time. And he's like, again, no, I don't joke.

I've literally have never joked about this. She was just trying to be in on the joke. That's what I'm like, there are little things where I was like, even after the fact he literally, she was like, oh, unless we get naked together or something like that. Like they make little like sly comments. They have little banter. They have a banter with each other where it's like fake flirting, whatever. And Bailey just wanted to be in on the joke.

And she was like, I'm joking. I'm just saying I'm just saying I'm joking. Yeah, when you weren't invited to the joker, you weren't there. You cannot be in on a private joke between your crush and someone they might out chemistry would. Right. You just can't do that. Because what did you say?

I'm just tired of people thinking I want to fuck me mates, missis. Jesse being like, dude, you actually talk like that. Jesse and West's reaction to that was so funny. It was unsurious group of men to like try to have a serious conversation. genuinely the best part too was that after Ben had left and then they were telling it to Kyle and then Kyle just starts cracking up as if it's a punchlight and it's just like

no that's just how he talks yeah no honestly if I were Bailey I would be you know when you're on state the little bit where you're on stage where they take a cane out and they just like pull you yeah I would be well that's what she did she literally went into the bathroom to offer fancy clothes

and she was like I am not showing my face again I'm going to bed totally relatable yeah like her being like Yeah, I'm not going out. Wrap it up. I felt bad for her. I'm going to bed. I felt bad for her.

But for me, and as I said, on the opposite end, I was like, come on. Like, listen, it sucks to, like, get into a little tiff. But, like, you're exacerbating this whole outcome by, like, it's Amanda's birthday. Put your fucking party shoes on. You don't even have to look at Ben. But, like, go. But, like, the whole, like, I'm going to stay in. I'm going to be in the bed.

And then I'm going to make my friend stay in because, like. And then the next night being, like, I don't want to sit next to Ben. Yeah, like, I'm just, like, the drama. No, turning him into the bad guy over a night of sleep. She's just like... By the way, I don't think she's trying to turn him into the bad guy.

I think it's an extension of her flirting. Like, she wants him to come after her and to apologize. I think we're done with the flirt. I was like, Leah, that might be a little bit of original. This is giving like stages. Is this what you would tell your friend if your friend's Bailey?

No, no, no. If my friend is Bailey, if I'm Levi in the situation, I'm like, get dressed, we're going out, we're going to have fun, we're going to get drunk, and you're going to fuck another man tonight. Oh, Leia! Okay, ass laya.

That's what I'm saying. I love what I'm doing if I'm spicy. I've never heard her say the F word, guys. Sorry. But no, I think if I'm psychoanalyzing Bailey, I think that what's happening is that I think that she's still, she's not over Ben

in like 15 seconds. No, no. I think 100% after that conversation she was like, you disgust me. I would never put my hands on you. Oh, I disagree. I think she immediately was like turned off. That's not the guy she thought he was she like got a completely different view of him and I think she's like crushed over. I think she's, no, I think I've been floored with her at all. It would come right back now.

No, I think she's, I think that she's sulking and she wants him to come apologize. I think she wants to be crush over, but she's also like, okay, but if he was nice to me. If you open a window, I'll kick open the door. Like, I'll be there. Yeah. Which is. Like, if you're going to hate me, I'll hate you right back. And we can have like, you and fuck. We can also We can also like do both of those things. Yeah. Like we could hate fuck. They literally combined the two.

Speaking of maybe hate fucking, West and Sierra, let's get into it. They do not hate each other though. West sitting on her being curtail, like even Connor was like, she's fucking smart. Like just the way that it's just like, he has a crush. Yeah, he has a fucking crush in the way that it's like his weird little boyish antics. All of these people, by the way. Like Bailey's like lack of ability to flirt. And then it's like you've got West also lack of ability to flirt.

or to be direct with his feelings. He's actually pissed me off a lot this season because I'm like, if you just said how you felt, a lot of this would be null and void. What? At the end of the episode, as he was... He said it to Ben. He says it to Ben.

He says it to everyone else, but even the conversation with Jesse, the conversation with Jesse. He could have said, hey, I kind of think you're a dickhead for asking. He goes, KJ and Ben, they really had an issue with it. I'm cool, but they thought it was so weird. You know what? He's trying to, like, be a good guy.

Oh, my God. Carrie and big? But West is Carrie. No. Yeah. But West, like, listen, I don't. West at the end, when he was very hammered at the end of the episode, he's talking to Ben. We all know how West feels, though.

Like, that's the thing. Like, Sierra doesn't know. He's talking to. How does Sierra not know? Am I crazy? Did you guys not hear West say, I'm just not, I know what she's looking for, and I'm not ready to give that right now? That's what he said he was when they were. together.

Yeah. He said, when we were together, I knew what she needed and I wasn't ready to give that to her. And Ben goes, do you have any regrets? And he goes, of course I do. Yeah. And then the episode ended because he's maybe ready now, but he doesn't know what we're supposed to do. But now he doesn't know what to do. Exactly.

And I'm just like, he tried to. They were both drunk. And I mean, they both admitted this where they're like, we can talk when we're drunk. But like when the lights are on and the days, like we cannot communicate. But then he said, is it a P. A sunset relationship, a PM relationship. No, A, he goes, I don't, I just don't know how to talk to you. And she goes, I did that directly by design.

That was a great line. That was so hard. I just, if my friend or daughter win is in a situation like this, I would just, this has so many red flags. And I feel because like, Sierra's always like very earnest about her love life. You know, every once in a while, we talk, we hear her like express frustration about not going the way she wants. And I just like, West and Jesse

just give very just unserious about their dating life. And is it fun to see them flirt? Do we see the chemistry? Do we hope that like, if they want it, if they really fell in love, they would work out.

But like nothing about West's behavior suggests that he's ready for this stuff. I disagree. I'm going to disagree too because I'm going to say that I'm like, West coming into it, the whole thing like what blew up right at the reunion was the fact

that he kind of ended things with Sierra and was like, yeah, my DMs are flooded. Like, you know what I mean? Like he's like, oh, I've never been here before. And Paige was like, like, read him to film. It was the article. And it was just kind of like, well, Paige was like, you know, you have a bunch of girls sliding in your DM, but you have this right now. And it's like, I just want to like play and see what else is out there. I think now he's seeing that it's like, yeah, there's a bunch of girls in your DMs that want to slide on and get on summerhouse and come to the events with you.

But like, they're not really interested in West. And Sierra actually was interested in West. And now I think he's pining for that because it's like a bunch of temporary girls. Yeah, I know. And no one can make, yeah. Also, I'm rooting for them so hard. Also, I just need to put out there that you cannot control who you fall in love with. You can't control who you like.

And like, I don't think she likes Jesse. I don't think he's ready for a relationship. I thought that their conversation was great. It was like, we're just friends. Don't be a dick. And she forgave him. Yeah, I agree with you ultimately. But I was asking Natalie last night, do you think there's a world, not that Sierra

likes Jesse the way she likes West, but what have we heard from Sierra in describing her ideal, like, falling in love situation? She's like, I want to be friends with the guy first. I want to establish, like, a close, emotional connection and then hopes that that turns into something romantic, right? And wants to be protected.

Of course, right? But, like, so, you know, the whole, like, last week's episode where Jesse did the weird thing, we're like, you know, and I think that's such a relatable story between, like, men and women who are friends, right? and they kind of like do that dance, you know, and then Jesse did the thing

where he made it weird. Like he crossed that boundary where it was like, okay, now you're making it fucking weird, which, you know, we all know what it's like to be friends with someone

and then they make it weird and you're like, why'd you ruin a good thing like this friendship that we had? Genuinely. But when she goes to Jesse and she's like, you could have just asked,

it's like, it makes me wonder that if Jesse, like, came correct, where it's just like, like a gentleman said Sierra,

I want to, can we talk and like, listen, like, I know we're friends and I know we flirt a lot and sometimes I'm a little confused, but like I'd like to take you on a date and I like to show you, I want to treat you the way I think you deserve to be treated. I wonder if like Sierra would entertain something like that because like, whether it's West or Jesse, like, that's, it makes a lot of sense. She wants to develop this friendship, but then she's developing friendship with these guys who just are very unserious. And in the moment of like hanging out with their. bros, you know, like the fuck boy mindset goes up where they're like, what if we just want to make out or whatever? And, you know, it's just like, but at the same time, it's just more like, again, when it comes to these types of like friendships, I'm curious. Like, do you, a lot of, there's a lot of commentary online about Jesse being one of the girls. Yeah. And being in bed. I loved it in the beginning. But serious question. If you were, you had a guy friend like Jesse, right? And he's out there and you walk and he's happened to me he's having he's he's he's giving you fuck boy energy you're hearing about all the girls he's hooking up with when you're with a bunch of girls and this guy comes into

bed doesn't the energy is different right like you're not he's not you're not like literally like he's one of the girls the thing is that like usually that type of person and jessie in this situation like jessie very much declared himself as oh i'm going to fill pages she was like i'm one of the girls so if you're positioning yourself in a way that like i'm just trying to be one of the girlies just trying to hang out and they have that type of friendship with him then yeah he's allowed to get in the bed and hang out because it's like you're not going to do anything that's inappropriate or that that you're safe exactly it's a safe space i agree like jessie made it weird i'm just saying like isn't the energy different no if nobody has any like

sexual interest in said person it's like we're all just human beings yeah yeah some of your boys are your girls sometimes yeah the best gossip comes from like being able to do it with a man to queen out with a boy is really fun. Or like having like your best friend's like boyfriend or whatever. And you guys sitting around kikiing over like a glass of wine and it's like, oh my God, wait, he did what? I literally, when I see my best friend's boyfriend who is also my friend doesn't happen all the time. But I literally give him the biggest hug. And I'm like, oh my God, my girl, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I just don't think, I know, Jesse is not unaware that he's in a bed with women.

And I'm not saying he's going to be weird about it. I think, I think Sierra and Amanda are both not into Jesse. I don't think they're into. them, it's like... They're trusting his intention. Yeah. For them. Because I think at the end of the day, I think if Sierra was actively interested in

Jesse, Sierra probably would have done something about it. Like if it was West coming into the bed, I think that that would have been very different energy because there's clearly some sexual tension between... There's romantic tension between Sierra and West. But with Jesse... We saw it even this past episode when West and Sierra in Amanda's bed and it's just kind of like this like... And then Kyle's like, can't wait to talk about it.

I just don't think Jesse. I never watched those scenes and thought Jesse wasn't aware that he was in a bed full of women. And they might be his friends. I don't think Jesse was never not aware. Like that's the thing. I think Jesse's intention fine, but I'm saying he made it very clear that he was trying to fill page's shoes and Kiki with the girls. So I'm going to trust you as my friend that that is your intention. If you're going in trying to be weird and get cop a feel, God bless.

But I'm like, I'm saying until you, like until you do something that shows your true colors or your true intentions, I'm going to trust. that you're, what you believe, what you're saying to be true. And I will say I probably, I'm curious to see how often we see him back in the bed after he's made this. I want to make out with Sierra comment. Never again. I hope never again. Like, he hasn't made it weird up until now. So before he wasn't crossing any boundaries, he wasn't like, you know, he was just being normal.

Put KJ in the bed. Jesse Bedbug. Put KJ in the bed for sure. But even if KJ goes in the bed, he's, it's not one of the girls. Well, I think it also would be weird Because they don't like know him as well I'm just kind of a Dara-ish So yeah, it would be different

I'm just saying like I don't know He's positioned to himself As like I was raised by women I just get along with female energy Oh no I would trust him 100% But I just don't know if they have the same Like banter and relationship

Carl could get in the bed Carl could get in the bed Yeah Carl could get in the bed Also not Amanda getting the watch And then being like Now I can leave them and still have a watch I said what? And also $9,000 watch, I looked it up.

Yeah. And then I was like, oh, but you couldn't give Carl 10 grand? Yeah. 15 grand. No, they definitely kind of like, they had to have gone into the season being like, okay. Kyle was giving Alex in that moment where it's just like I, I invested a half a million dollars into my business. It's just a lot of accounting talk that can be a bunch of different things. I was like, shut the hell up, Kyle.

You made $500,000 that you made off a lover boy that you're investing back into your company. Like to meet payroll. Yeah. Again, again, again, it can mean so many different. different things. But the fact that he was like, you know, like I would invest in Carl, one of like my best friends company, you know, someone I've known for so long and who invest in mine. But like, I would have to fire my entire staff to do it is what he was like trying to make it. I was like, I was like, that's so manipulative. Grander's overstatement for just saying I didn't feel like

supporting. Like at the same time too, wasn't he the one bragging in the beginning of the season about like his DJ tour and how now he gets paid to go out versus paying to be out? Did he say he put 500k of his own money? Yep, but his own money where it was like your own money came from lover boy and came from this episode of Summerhouse. It's very...

Like one episode of Summerhouse, you couldn't give half of your paycheck for Carl? Also, the point is when Carl gave $15,000, it's probably worth more. The assumption was he didn't really have he had nothing. He didn't have $15,000 to give. So for that it was like

this insane amount of money for him. And then Kyle clearly, he's like, he might be in a tough spot right now, but he had a half a million dollars to just like, you know, plus $9,000. Plus $9,000. Plus whatever, how much this episode I'm getting paid for. Plus, I'm going on tour this weekend.

Kyle was, it was easy. It seemed like it was easy for Kyle to dismiss Carl. Carl. Yeah, Carl in those situations. And just the way Kyle is this, he's so, it's so easy for him to be like no one understands my plight. Right. That's my biggest.

issue with Kyle it's like every season he like somehow finds this way that he is the victim of his own life due to the choices that he made himself. Yeah. And I'm just like I'm sorry like after a while the schick gets old. It's like you know watching like grow up. Yeah put Carl in the bed. I need to go

I just need to go back to like men and women friendships. I'm just like you're telling me from your standpoint you can be flirty and and that's not a potential risk of ruining the friendship that that that that that one person could side. Yeah.

And if it's both. But are they, are they talking about how they're both receiving the flirting. They just they just did that well that would ruin the flirting. Yeah. I just like I just the platonic friendships that I had that I, that I, that really mattered to me that I were that were really like this friendship means a lot to me. I didn't I didn't flirt.

I was very, I didn't want to like make blurred lines. I didn't want like I wanted, this was my friend. Yeah. You know, and I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, I, I,, I, I'm, I, I, I'm, I,, I'm, and, you know, I was very, you know, careful. I didn't give any reason for them to, like, read a situation wrong, and even then, things got weird if I got a girlfriend, and I was, and I was, and I remember feeling very, like, what, why, like, why, like, why are you more unavailable than you are now? And even then that can happen, but I'm just saying, like, when, like, when two people, like, who acknowledge there's a physical attraction and they also flirt, but they're just friends?

Like, can't, like, you're telling me that, like, well, in this case, I don't think Sierra ever said that she was physically attracted to Jesse. Maybe not. I don't know. But I don't also don't think, I also don't think Sierra when she's having that awkward moment with Jesse, when she goes, like, she's just very earnest and sincere. She's like, you know, if you really wanted to, you could have just fucking asked. And we don't know whether Sierra would have, again, pursued Jesse. But again, back to what how, how Sierra describes how she wants to meet someone, it's very coded in these types of friends that she has where she's hoping that if one of these guys that if he was really serious about it and really

wanted to like take that next step, she's just expecting a guy to like take himself seriously, take her seriously and pursue her like the way she deserves to be treated. So I'm just saying like it can't be both. And I'm just friends with him and like I can't believe that he's making a move and I'm so weirded out versus I'm just saying like those types of friendships always have an expiration day I mean

because it was the way that that Jesse went about it right because Sierra specifically said it outright she was like what she wants is she wants to be friends with someone and then she wants him to like ask her on a date properly what Jesse did is he went around her

talk to the boys yeah he did the thing where he made it fucking weird yeah Jesse fucked up I'm just saying these types of friendships in general always have some kind of expiration date And it's like, it's just a matter of time before someone reads it wrong or makes it fucking weird or whatever. Well, I think that they recovered, right?

Like, they had that very mature conversation and I think that they'll continue to be friends. Maybe Jesse will go back in a little different. Yeah. I think it will be different. Right? Because when someone makes it kind of weird, it's just like. You just have to like reset boundaries after that situation. Like, I think they're going to be fine.

But their boundaries are very confusing. I just, I mean, it might become a little queerer now, but that's where I'm like, I think even then when when friendships are like ambiguous. like that where it's like oh it's fun it's flirty it's whatever but it's platonic it's nothing serious that's what I'm saying it's like it's fun to joke but I'm like it's never taken like that step and Sierra's not the type of girl that's just gonna like make out drunkenly one night and be like oh will we won't we you know she must be afforded when Jesse goes

when Jesse goes Sierra doesn't want to be casual like that was such a like that's who Jesse is right and West like West like West I think West I think the difference between West maturity in Jesse is that Jesse does this thing where he's like he's giving fuck boy he's giving fuck boy

but like whether it's last season Lexi Lexi is that he's like no I'm really serious about finding a girl I'm really want like I'm a relationship guy you know and then he like kind of giving little love mommy and like really leans in but at the end of the day what he really wants is this all

he wants to keep it casual he wants to be in his late 20s early 30s famous and living in New York and it seems like Wes is pretty like yeah I'm just kind of keeping it casual and doesn't do the thing where he kind of like jumps into a relationship and to me that's a little bit more mature than Jesse because Jesse does the thing where he wants his cake and he needs a girl it gets very confusing for her because like he thinks he can like keep it casual with his women friends and be flirty while also like say like I'm in love with you Jesse Jesse like is trying to you haul but as a straight man and it's just it doesn't work like that that's my thing that's my take on just yeah i think i think that that sierra's approach isn't flawed i think that it's that it's from what i've seen is that you could have a platonic friendship it just both parties need to be down for it and both parties need to like yeah understand about yeah yeah that's what i'm saying

like let's see what happens with her and ben's friendship and her and kj's friendship like so far those seem like very healthy platonic i also think she's kind of like if you're gonna have the audacity to go into the idea of do anything going further with me, then like from the friendship that we have, you should have been able to come to meet with that, not talk about me. Like I'm just another girl that you're just going to drunkenly make out with. It's like Carl and, and Sierra last season kind of had like a flirty banter. Carl then went to Sierra and was like, I feel like if things were differently, it would have been me and you. And she was like, I'm not into it. And then they were covered and they're still

friends. You have a great relationship and Carl could go in the bed. And Carl could be a bedbug. Carl was so sweet about it, too. He was just like, I think you're beautiful and amazing. Yeah. That's a perfect example. That's a little bit more serious and intentional now, I'm a true. When Jesse's just like... Well, just like honestly, like, fuck Jesse.

Sounds like Jesse. Like, I think any friendship that's man-woman at some point has to have that conversation. I agree. Regardless of if you're flirty, regardless if you're not flirty. Just at some point, you need to have the like... If it's not you guys, it's probably other people asking. Because like, Jesse admitting that... it's like

because Sierra doesn't keep him casual. To me it says he would have been down to have this casual thing with Sierra if she were down which means like he would have something casual with literally anything. He let someone random suck his toe.

Yeah. And that's not the type of guy that it's like you're platonic friends with. And I think the difference between Jesse and West is that like Jesse still has the delusion that he could maybe keep it casual Sierra.

Even though deep down he knows that's not true and he was just making TV and disrespecting his friend along the way, which they're moving past. But West at this point has learned his lesson with Sierra and knows that he can't pull that shit and can't pretend to keep something casual when it's not. And so now he's longing and yearning for her of being like, wait. They love each other. Maybe I would be down to, like, have something with this girl.

And he just knows he fucked up. I also kind of think, too, where I'm like just with the unnatural element to this too is the fact that they are on a show together repeatedly year after year. So I'm also kind of like, and they were made friends because they were put in a sharehouse on a show together, not because they chose each other. So it's not like, Sierra was like, oh my God, Jesse, you have such amazing stand-up qualities. It's like, no, I got to know who you are outside of being somebody that you're interested in and somebody that's dating you. So I see the person that you are, the good friend that you can be versus like, oh, I met him out. He was a sleaze bag. And also their first time

meeting she was with his best friend. Exactly. His friend on the show. And they kissed. Remember? Yeah. They kissed on the lips while she was dating West as like a funny joke. Ha ha. So I'm like they've always, this whole group already has this like very interesting dynamic of a friendship. But I'm just like, I just don't think if anything is that serious until, you know, Jessie's talking about something that sounds like, oh, that sounds serious. Well, it's not that serious until someone's crying about because they, their feelings are

because it's something serious. Because someone makes it serious. Yeah. Well, because you trust someone and then they go, you think that you know someone and then they, you know what I mean? Well, it's an interesting question of just like how reliable or how good familiarity is when you're when you're meeting someone. Come again? Well, familiarity. Like we like familiarity. It's like part of chemistry, you know? Like you said, they all work together. They go out. They're all familiar with each other. And so there's this like, it's just easier to get along. This whole cast, no one can relate to them like they can relate to each other.

So I'm like familiarity. We go to the same church. We were both on the bachelor together. Whatever it is. You know, like that creates this kind of chemistry. You know, like Natalie and I had no familiarity when we met each other. You know, it's like we had to get to know each other. That made a little awkward and there's tension at first.

But like I think when we date, we, you know, what do we say about the challenge about dating is like those like superficial conversations on a date. Or you're just like, I don't even know if I fucking care. All right. So what's your mom's name? But familiarity, like, allows us to feel this chemistry. It makes it easy at first, but I think it limits our pool. And it makes us, like, have chemistry with people who are otherwise deeply flawed, at least for us. Yeah, that's true.

And, you know, like, we don't even know what Sears dating life is, like, outside the show. You know, it's like, for all, it's just, they're just making TV. But we see, like, all these people have this familiarity. They're all, like, pretty good looking. They're all charismatic. And it's almost, like, impossible. not to like make bad decisions in the in this framework of the show it's like you get you get well hello vanderpump rules it's like it's the perfect example the blueprint of just like this group of people that are together all

the time nobody understands their plate they're working as like waiters but then there's in getting paid pennies and yet like they're known all over the world if not just the united states as like people are coming to go to this restaurant to harass stossie hoping they get sat in her section that i'm like it's not crazy that like, oh, the best friend hooks up with the ex-boyfriend, the whole thing. And it's just like, yeah, because there's nobody else in their in their little bubble of people, which is why I just made such great reality television. Well, high school, you only knew 10 people. You weren't even allowed to like go across town to meet someone else.

And you're just like, well, I guess you're not going to. Limited options. Yeah. You don't like her anymore. Can I, you know? Reality television is literally just taking like junior year and putting it in your 30s. God bless. I mean, like, yeah, last week, when, you know, the fact that Jesse.

He even asked West, like, if he would care, is the most high school behavior of all time. I went to a private high school. We had 30 kids in our class. Imagine that literally that is summer house. And guess what? Leah is married to her child. That's who we are. Literally.

And I married one of them. Well, Summer House. I mean, the relationship discourse is outstanding. Oh, thriving. Yeah. Well, I think that West and Sierra will get back together. Me too. And I also want that Cartier watch.

Yeah. I got a link for you. I was watching it and I'm like, you know what, Kyle's getting a lot of attention for this watch. Maybe I need to buy less stuff. And I was like, we still did not get a sex scene that night. It's not like she laid it on them. Like we didn't get an undercover black and white moan session. All he asked for was a couple's photo and she took one with Ben.

He was standing right there. But she did sit on his lap. Yeah, she sat on his lap. She got a cardian. They had a kiss. They had a kiss. No, I mean, for her saying, now I can leave him. It's like the...

Also, Kyle being like, we had so much fun. I've never been more in love with you. I was like, yes, because she stayed up past midnight. Like, and she went out with you. We were, now that's why I love my life so much. We were so on the same page. When they're like, they come home from the bars at three, three o'clock. Staying up.

Continuing? I have to see a lot. Like, I kept being like, what time is it by now? It's got to be 5 a. I was going to say, I was like, chicken dip, what time? The buffalo chicken dip? What time was the buffalo chicken dip coming out of the oven? Guys, that's like the best.

No, that's the best part of the night. Oh my God, when you come back to the house after going out and then you're like pizza rolls. Yeah, but you eat for 20 minutes and then you go to bed. No, you turn on. You turn on music. You turn on music. We're ripping chos. Keep people party going for me is crazy.

Maybe some good, like a good. A bowl of cereal. and you go to bed. Junk food for sure, maybe a video game with the boys, but like I need to wind down. Oh, no, I'm saying, we're ready to go to night.

No, we're winding down. My favorite night that I've, like, had out with some friends, this one time was me and two of my friends went to a bar. We got back at probably like 12, 12, 30, and then we both, we had talked about the movie Nyad

and we're making, like, fun of it. And then we were like, should we just watch it? And then we had another drink and ordered food and watched Nyad. How long is it? Like two hours. And we weren't going to finish it, and then we did.

3 a.m's not that. Yeah, these people got home at 3 a.8. And we're eating Buffalo chicken dip at what had to be 5 a.m. Listen, I would do all that shit at bar time plenty of times. It's just like when I get home at 3, it's like time to wind down. The fact that they were like kept it going. You haven't come back to a house with your friends and been like, all right, it's fucking. A pastor party time.

So, sleepy. Well, you know they truly are a group of friends for them to be able to do that. Oh, yeah. That's part. Buffalo chicken just takes 40 minutes to make Oh my God And guess what? They're bonding It had to be pre-made in their time

Like there's no way they were like shredding chicken Oh so guess what West and Sierra are trying to stay awake Grading cheese Are trying to get alone There's no I've actually peeped up before that The not of like Uber Eats they order Like it's got to be a lot of like frozen stuff I hope you're right Mary

About West and Sierra I'm afraid you're wrong And I don't say that to me I'm team West Sierra I'm team West and Sierra I think I'm Team Sierra. I'm Team Sierra's heart. I just don't want it.

I just don't want it. And we'll end it there, everybody. Thank you to our guest, Andrew and Derek and Alex from Love is Blind. Watch Age of Attraction. Watch Age of Attraction. And we'll see you tomorrow for an incredible going deeper with Amber and Brittany. Bye.