The Viall Files - E1095 - Age of Attraction w/ Libby, Vanelle & Justin, Mormon Wives, The Oscars, RHOBH & Southern Hospitality

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!    It's the start of another busy week, as we recap the Oscars, the first two episodes of Mormon Wives, Age of Attraction, RHOBH, and Southern Hospitality! Trust that we get into it allll. Plus, we're joined by Libby, Vanelle and Justin to dive even deeper into the first 5 episodes of Age of Attraction. You absolutely will NOT want to miss it.    The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 4th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.    Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/    HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes!   Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter    Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod   Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:   American Home Shield -    Pockethouse - For a limited time, our listeners can get a FREE pocket pivot and their 10-pattern sprayer with the purchase of ANY size Copper Head hose. Just text VIALL to sixty-four thousand.   Ollie - Head to https://ollie.com/viall, tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today!   Better Help - Your emotional wellbeing matters. Find support and feel lighter in Therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/viall    Jones Road Beauty - For a limited time our listeners are getting a free Shimmer Face Oil on their first purchase when they use code VIALL at checkout. Just head to https://jonesroadbeauty.com and use code VIALL at checkout.   Quince - Right now, go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping and 365-day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada, too. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles     Timestamps:   00:00 - Intro/Household Headlines 18:51 - Age Of Attraction 37:13 - Justin Joins 51:22 - More Age Of Attraction 1:01:46 - Libby and Vanelle Join 1:29:44 - SLOMW 1:40:03 - RHOBH 1:43:10 - Southern Hospitality Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @libbyvodicka @vanellesandra_ @just_in_charleston @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare  

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another fantastic episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my very talented, everyone thinks she's been hosting for years now. Life, Natalie Joy, isn't she really a star? I told you all. You know, you knew what I would do. But it's like, is this Natalie's first time hosting? Age of Attraction, people seem to be enjoying it.

It's out there. On the Netflix top 10. I don't know about this Virgin River show or this other anime. They seem to have strong. One Piece is a really big. Yeah, I know. It's a big franchise. I'm not hating it.

I'm just, I'm just, I'm recognizing they, they are seem to be powerhouse shows. I think you're a powerhouse show that's amongst one piece. But no, everyone seems to really be enjoying it. Most importantly, binging it. Whether you're a lover or a hater, you seem to be locked in, which is all we really care about it. And we have, so we're really excited. about it. It's been a lot of fun. We'll obviously dive into some of these episodes

of the first batch. We do have two more episodes of Age of Attraction dropping on Wednesday on Netflix. So we will talk about episodes I think two through five today along with our special guest Libby and Vannell join us to talk about their experiences. Obviously we have

the very heated scene between Jorge and Vanel, which I thought was fascinating. Yeah, it's super interesting. Yeah. And we also have fan favorite Justin. Oh, sweet man. I'm so excited to talk to him.

So we do ask Vanel if there's any chance that maybe she might pick up the call. The phone call and reach out to Justin. So you'll get some answers there. Along with obviously the oral intimacy. Yes. What does that entail? I am team Vanel. You don't think we have to be teams here.

Team Vannell. We can let fans be whatever they want to be. For sure, yeah. You know, fans can. Nick and I are not. picking sides because they are all our children. Do I get to take sides? I'm a fan of the show.

Six-year-old Jorge is our son. Baby Jorge is like a little baby Jorge. You're a little baby six-year-old man. I have seen like feedback. I mean, obviously there's so much. I have not scoured the internet. So I'm sure there's a lot of feedback. But some feedback I have seen, which I was really happy to see.

And that's how I felt is that like it's a generally likable cast, but they get into complicated conversations that are fascinating that you may agree or disagree with. But we'll dive into it more later this episode. And we do have Justin Libby and Vannell to unpack their experiences on Age of Attraction. We also have the new trailer

for Temptation Island, which I think drops after age of attraction. Which I heard this season's an absolute banger. Yeah. Really excited. I think we get some new temptation. I'm so ready for these slutty couples to break up on these beaches. Like I... That's a crazy

tagline, but not wrong. What? It's TV, baby? Yeah. We also have The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. We're going to cover the first two episodes. And then they're also on the internet. We'll get into that. What's going on?

What's not going on? Are we tracking these ladies from a show standpoint? Are we tracking them from their social media, the news? The timeline is more confusing than the Marvel Cinematic Universe. We need Heather Gay here to put things in order. Yes, we do. I need a timeline. I need receipts.

Yeah. It's very confusing. Also, real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I just saw Andy Cohen tweet being like, send in your questions for the reunion and everyone was like, we don't have any. I think we have two episodes left. It feels like two episodes left to try to make something.

Say what you want about Amanda, but she is carrying this season. I love the show in general. The thing is she's carrying the season, but it's about as heavy as like, you know, the clouds she's up in while she's manifesting. What was the tweet you read that was like this whole season is based off of a. Amanda saying something about Doreets.

Amanda saying something mildly and sensitive about Doreet's divorce. What the entire season is about is one comment made in episode one. No, literally. And we're still on it. Where I'm like, sorry, Amanda didn't have to do much. But thank God she's on this season because what the hell else would we have had? Sutton's entire storyline, I'm nice now. Like, girl, I must be watching a different show.

I'm eating this season up. Rachel Zowe, Sutton's, Nolment. Like, there's so much here. Bo's sharing her infertility struggles. like everything. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. It's just not much to like discuss regarding drama. Rachel's showed up. She's like, I am going to burn my ex-husband's reputation to the ground. Damn, damn my children's relationship with their father. And whoever the terrible girlfriend. She's her name never gets out there publicly. It is an LA story. I'll give Beverly Hills that.

Well, I did buy River some chalk for, I actually bought it for her Easter basket. Cute. Yeah. And then I bought the 20 pack. It was the smallest pack they had. I felt like, you know, honestly, it feels like a little much for a two-year-old. But sure, you know, maybe we'll give her one row of colors at a time and make it last for years. Well, then Nick all of a sudden gets a hold of it.

And I, this man stays in the backyard for the entire weekend. doing murals on our on our backyard sidewall the exaggeration in that if that was true though it is true

I love that it was beautiful the only part that wasn't beautiful 40 minutes maybe he wouldn't let River be included he was like Rip you're gonna

you don't know how to do Bob Ross she had her own square and I had my own square and she kept trying to go into square she's putting pink on the sky it's not working you know what I think that's a good

lesson for her to learn. There's always going to be like that bitchy girl in your class. And it's better to learn that from her father. Yeah. You know, and I think that's a good relationship for you guys to have. But he told me this morning that he needs more colors. He said I need some darker. I need some earthy tones. I need some more colors. I'm here for this. I got another one in the chamber. I whipped one up this morning. Yeah. This is my favorite thing I've learned about you. I didn't know that you were an artist. Yeah. I'm not. You're an artist. You're good. you know you're not selling artwork by any means but you are an artist yeah you're artistic do you feel like better when you do it do you feel more like yourself more happy i enjoy doing it do i feel more like

myself yeah are you de-stressing by doing it i do yeah i do you put on music is it like a vibe are you zoned out like what do you we had some music playing poolside yesterday this morning i didn't put on any music today you were honed in no i was more honed in this morning that's what i mean yeah so no i did tell natalie to buy you adult coloring books because I think, like, psychologically speaking, you can, like, de-stress and release and decompress when you are coloring. Like, that's why there are adult coloring books. I don't like crayon as a medium. No, but there's so many different forms of...

What? What's so funny? Are you more of a colored pencil guy? What are we working with? It was so serious. You came out of nowhere with... Listen, I don't like crayon as a medium. A medium.

The thing about Nick is that he doesn't want to use any... art supplies if they are bought for him. Valentine's Day a few years ago, I bought on like canvas, watercolor, paints, oles, pastel, all kinds of things. I'm like, you get back in that creative space. I think honestly, it's all still. Where is it? So I think I have to buy an adult coloring book and be like, this is for River.

We got to bring in. No one touch. And then I'll find him doing it. The comment I appreciated the most was I reminded them from Bert from Mary Poppins. Oh, yes. Oh, that's nice. Yes. All I have to say is those hating on Nick engaging in the arts

are sounding like Timothy Shalomey. And if you saw the Oscars, did you see that The Sinners Live performance brought out Misty Copeland? Honestly. A famous ballerina. Timothy was front row and they brought her out. Maybe trolling them.

Did they put the camera on them? Did they? I don't know if they put the camera on him, but it was pretty like... If this is all good, clean fun, I am here for it. I think it's amazing that we can get a little goofy and not take ourselves too seriously. If this is like, I have so much more respect for Doja Cat over the weekend because we saw her like, the heat for Timmy got a little hot.

I mean, it started to get to the point where like, whoa, calm down. What are we, what are we talking about here? I mean, every celebrity was asked on the red carpet. Like, what are your thoughts on Timothy Jalame's recent comments about ballet and opera? Like, oh my God. It was a little, it was a little heavy. And then Doja Cat posted some criticism and then posted and said, you know what? Honestly, fuck me.

I honestly, I don't know why I said that. a little performative on my part. She was like, I've never seen the ballet and I've also never been to an offer for sure. And that, like, she was so real for that shit, you know, just to like ride a wave. And I'm sure like, you know, she was probably just having fun, but the criticism got like, again, a little too serious and divisive. It was like, we're just, come on. I was going to say it's like, if anything, kind of glad he made the comments because I think it's putting a lot more spotlight on those two classic art forms than ever before. And it's the same thing that happened with Broadway. Remember when COVID, everything, everyone's like, Broadway is dead.

And then it's like, look at Broadway now. Everybody and their mother is trying to get on Broadway. Yeah. So shout out to me. He did maybe possibly ruin his Oscar chances, though. Well, I mean, he was up against Michael B. Jordan playing smoke and stack. He did play two. He did play two people.

Yeah, where his performance was incredible. He looked really great. Sinners was just amazing. Did he get an Oscar for Smoke or for Stack? I think it was for both Smoke and for Stack. He got two actually. His speech was just like incredible where he just like, you know he, so many people love Michael B. Jordan.

And I do, I have always felt that like the world collectively has just seen him and been like, yeah, that's a good guy. And he like, recognized that. Wood smash. Wood smash. He's like, you guys do all think I'm like hot and talented and a good person. And like, I want to live up to that for you. Like you keep bringing your mother to all of these award shows and we do love that.

Yeah. And it's just beautiful and cynical. was so amazing and I love Ryan Cougler so much and it should have won best picture. I watched Sinners did not know that it was going to be about vampires and I was... Or the blues. Or the blues.

Exactly. It's like two awesome things. Vampires and the blues. This is taking a turn. I thought it was so good. So they're fighting the neck. Yeah. Okay. And playing guitar and having sex. Like it's a great movie. Do you think do you think Tim's upset or do you feel like

Yeah, probably. You think so? Yeah, I would imagine he is. I do want him to have the same career that Leonardo DiCaprio has, where every time he's in a movie, he gets nominated, never wins. Then he's in a movie that everyone's like, this one's fine, and then he wins. Yeah. Yeah.

That's kind of my, that's what I see for him, little Timmy Tim Tim. I just love how winning the Oscar, we've really peeled back the curtains to how commercialized and performative this whole campaign is. seems to have almost nothing to do with the actual performances. Oh, yeah. It has so much to do with the... The fundraising on the side. The fundraising, the... Campaign.

Yeah, it was interesting. This year I noticed a lot in the speeches that Amy Madigan won for her role in weapons. It's amazing. She's amazing. It was a win for the divas was Amy Madigan's role. And it was a horror movie. I was going to say, isn't that not typical for a horror movie even to be nominated? It's, oh, it's crazy.

It's like silence of the way. Like, it's awesome that she won. It's really good that she won. Weapons was amazing. Her performance was just, but what I was going to say is that it was so interesting. Her speech as well as a lot of other ones really focused on like all the relationships I've made on this campaign with my fellow nominees.

So it was like very intentionally about like the community that they all kind of built together while campaigning to kind of instead of the sort of like empty oh it's an honor to be just be nominated with these nominees they were like no these relationships we made while like at these press events and stuff is like what's gotten us through

and I just thought that was interesting that they were like openly talking about it on the stage well shout out to all the nominees and the winners of last night's Oscars and Conan rocked Conan is an icon Conan was so funny well as we mentioned we do have the new trailer for

Temptation Island coming soon on Netflix following the new hit show Age of Attraction. So should we play this trailer? Yes, we absolutely should. It's a bigger check, potentially some betters, and always being hotter than your ex. Welcome to Temptation Island. Like so many couples, you've reached a point where you need some clarity. Are you guys ready to meet your tempters and temptresses? Fired up.

Ready for it. What a sight to see, I mean, come on. Here on this island, you're going to live apart, and you're going to be surrounded by singles whose only mission is to tempt you. Oh, my gosh. Admitting that I like this experience and this feeling feels selfish.

There's so many fish in the sea. It feels a little risky to be playing with fire right now, but I'm here for it. What is there to feel guilty for? I'm in bed with the men who's a bit. Rollroom. I gotta shoot my shot, how I need to shoot my shot. It's time for me to be selfish.

He did what he did, and I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. Would the father of my children make me feel this way? Am I really such a fucking boyfriend? I have a hard time acknowledging that. And coming here and learning myself, it's time for me to focus on me. I know what I deserve. This is love.

If it were easy, we wouldn't be a temptation of island. My goal is to walk out of here with her, but only time will tell. The temptation haven is bad. You're being bad. You guys are going to the other villa. This is going to be drama. Oh, so he'd be in here.

He doesn't want to put in that hard work. Do you love me enough? I'm here to figure out what's best for me, and I think me and her are both fine enough. I'm sorry. Is this real? A lot of man tears. I'm excited.

It does feel like the women are womening this season. I think we're going to get some man tears. this season, which is very exciting. Because otherwise... It's always like the guys, like being guys and then their partners being like, I can't believe. I brought him to temptation. And then you're like, come on, do something.

And she's like, I'm just sad. And I think it's the other way around. I'm here for it. Yeah. Yeah, there's nothing I love more than watching someone regret their decision. Like, realizing that what they had was so special. And then like, oh my God, I might lose it. And listen, I'm boring.

I'm probably going to be rooting for the couple that is tempted the least, just like Alexa and Lino last season. Obsessed with them. Obsessed with them still together. Yes. They are still going. Yeah, I love their content. They are so fucking cute.

I mean, yeah, I'm sure I'll be rooting for them. But I, as a lover of chaos, am also really going to want to see these women on these men's neck. Mary, the guy in this trailer that goes, you're being bad. Who's being bad? Yeah. I want to, I want, I. That's her job. Horny.

She is a temptress. Yes. I want to see the temptress and the temptresses. Well, kind of like Vanel from age of attraction when she goes to Jorge, you're dangerous. By the way, can we come up with different? Trouble. You're dangerous. Your troubles.

You're dangerous. You're bad. I don't, I just, ooh. Use some synonyms. What do you want, Leo? You're confusing me. Sexy. That's confusing.

Hot. Suddenly I'm sitting down. Hot. You're confusing. You're so beautiful. Wow. What about... I love you.

You're pretty. I love you. Yeah. You make me feel warm inside. I feel safe. You don't like you're naughty. No. Not even a little bit.

No. No. Well, if you haven't gotten tickets yet, we will be with this new cast of Temptation Island live on May 4th. So get your tickets while they last. The Netflix is a joke festival is coming to Los Angeles, and we are excited to be a part of it with the new cast of Temptation Island. So if you want to have a fun, messy, wild night out with your friends or your partner or yourself, we will be with that cast live.

So get your tickets now. The link is in our show description. If you want to join us or go to Bile Falls.com, you can do either. Don't forget that last Friday we dropped a Going Deeper episode with Love is Blinds, Amber, and Brittany, and we get a lot of the TV. the divorce of Amber and Jordan, as well as the breakup between Devante and Brittany. That is all on the Going Deeper episode that dropped on Friday.

You'll be sure to check it out if you haven't already. Also, don't forget that. Vow Files Plus is ad-free. And you can get all your Vow Files episodes ad-free now in addition to the amazing content that we're putting out there, including our reality recap deep dyes where we will dive deeper into episodes. I think we're going to dive into some secret lives of Mormon wives as well as age of attraction this week.

maybe get some Bravo as well. We also have our pop extra roundup where we discussed the very important logistics of Oscar award winning season amongst many other things. Also, I believe we didn't even talk about it this episode, but Miley Cyrus, Hannah Montana. Oh, best belief. Justin and I actually, Devil Wars Prada too. Justin and I did get into. A lot of stuff that we will get into.

Plus your update specials where you get your favorite. favorite updates from your favorite asnake episodes all on VivalS Plus. So go to vaughafiles.com to join. All right. Should we get into some age of attraction? Yes, please. So we now know everyone's age. Yeah.

Everyone's age. A fun reveal. Not going to lie. Who are you most shocked by? Jorge, probably. Jorge. I was like between, I was guessing like 50, maybe 45 to 50. And then when he said 60, I was like, yeah, no, I didn't see that one coming.

Nope. No. That man's got an AARP card. Yeah. Didn't realize that. I love all of them, to be honest. I feel like I resonate obviously with Libby and Fyfer because I feel like those are people that I understand like vibe wise and energy. But at the same time, I love the rest of the couples.

I really like Derek. Yeah. Derrick's cool. Yeah. Teresa. Love Teresa and John. I'm just so, I'm like so curious for like the next drop is like introducing to her family. She's having like a full on freak out at the end of the last episode.

And I was like, girl, I get it. I get it. It's like reality. You're living in this fun fantasy. but then it's like making shit real like i'm like i cannot wait to see the introduction to the friends and family well another interesting element of this show you know i think there's always all this type of discourse when it comes to relationships and age differences and i think a lot of time especially like online you know the people who are critical uh will sometimes lean into the the power

discrepancy between the older person and the younger person and i think what's fascinating that we're seeing especially with like teresa and some of the some of the women, even Jolene, is that like a lot of the, like you see Teresa a lot of times talking to Jonathan or Jolene talking to Wes and it's,

and they really want to know like how much paint, like what have you been through? Right. You know, like are you, like, yeah, it's a lot of it has to do with life experience, but it's usually centered around can I actually, you know, is my heart safe with you, right?

And so you want someone like the West character, right? Like, I think he's Jolene's attractive. I have a crush on Jolene, by the way. She's a dogger at Instagram. She's hot.

She's a babe. She's a little babe, right? And I think there really is a chemistry there. But when you see, the reason why ultimately I think she, you know, rejected him is because he was very much giving off this kind of like, listen, like, you know, let's feel good. It's, you know, I'm, I'm into you.

What could go wrong? Mm-hmm. You know, and she's sitting there at 49 years old with, she's a mom, an ex-husband. a career, she's like, let me tell you what can go wrong. Like, a lot can go wrong. You know, when you've been in these relationships and you give your heart to someone, and even if it's like, you know, it's always someone's fault. But like, you know, nowadays we're in these, like, you know, when people break up, someone has to be labeled a narcissist

or some kind of like terrible person. No, you can just have two people get it wrong. Grow apart. Grow apart. And there's a lot of hurt and there's a lot of pain. And I think sometimes, you're seeing, I think, you know, like Teresa, a lot of people relate to her because like so much of falling in love again later in life is that like, does this person know what I've been through? Can they relate to these experiences? Because if they can't, you know, regardless of what age they are, if they've never had their heartbroken, if they've never like had to really deal with a painful breakup, you really feel like that person can't relate to you. Or they're just very cavalier. But it's just like, whatever, let's just move in. You know, like what? What's the, you know, and I find that to be really fascinating.

Because, you know, when I met Natalie, it sounds weird to say, but the more I learned about her dating life and more I learned about like some unfortunate periods that she had to go through, the more I honestly felt safer opening up to her and moving through with our relationship because, you know, she's not going to be careless with your heart. Yeah, because she like she had been through a lot of also. painful experiences in her life because, and it just makes you feel safer. And I think that's such a fascinating

part about this show that I really enjoy because that's something that a lot of times early in relationships we don't talk about or acknowledge. I was just going to say, I mean, it's kind of like when West was like, I'm 30, 31 or whatever, however old.

She's like, I definitely thought you were younger than that. And he's like, thank you. He's like, that's not a compliment. She thinks you're immature. I was going to say, Nick, because I thought about this too of like how you can have life experiences at a younger age but at the same time you can be the older person in that age gap relationship and not have had those life experiences because then you see like you see in those dynamics of okay maybe me as the younger person like I'm going about this in a more quote unquote mature way than like you are and like you have the history of

dating younger people it's like I feel like you know like it goes both ways which is fascinating well and again now you know hookup culture has been more and more prevalent so you look at someone like West, he's 31, that's not that young. Yeah. Like, he's in his 30s. Yeah. Like, 20 years ago, you were a few years away from being a grandfather. You know, but now it's just like, now, you know, a 31 year old man,

he's been fuckboying maybe for 10 years. You know, there's a good chance he's never really been in a serious relationship. It's, yeah, I think he mentioned he had lived with someone before, but we don't really know. He's giving, it was very unsirious. Like, he's not, he doesn't move like a guy who's like really been fucked up

in a relationship by someone, you know? And he has this kind of very like, again, cavalier approach. And then you look at like John and Trisa and like so many of their conversations that she's just like, she's really listening to his answers because she just wants to know

how safe she is to trust, you know, letting go and just like falling for this guy. And it's one thing, you know, you can tell when Trisa is talking to John that while it's, good right now. She knows what it's like to live past a honeymoon phase, to get into a relationship. And it's unclear at this point in the show whether John can relate to that.

And I think that's what's so fascinating about it. We have Teresa who's talking to John about her son being two years older than him. And it's like, that's definitely going to make you think about a lot and really process a lot. There's no way I'll say it. It's weird. It's also, yeah, it's a constant reminder. It's like, man, yeah. What do you do?

And it's just like, are your feelings for this person, like, stronger than whatever, like, Freudian, like, thing that's happening in the back of your mind? And it's her children. Yeah. You know, it's one thing for Natalie to be like, my older sister, who my whole life was always so much older than me is my, is closer an age to my husband. But it's like, okay, sure. Your sibling. Your child. Like, that can be weird.

You get over that. When it's your kid, tougher to get over. Yeah, because you're, yeah, I couldn't imagine it. But it's such an interesting experience. And you have, I think a lot of people have these thoughts about, like, the kind of person who, like, would do that. And, like, they're, like, weird and fucked up or whatever. But then you look at Teresa and you're like, that's a wonderful, beautiful human being. Like, she seems amazing.

And so it's, like, a really fun, I don't know. It's a really interesting dynamic to watch and, like, learn from. Then also we had a sex scene. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me how you, tell me what you want. He says,

I want you. Yeah. The way I would be mortified. Yeah. No, us. Leah, let's not sham our cast.

I'm not shaming her. I would just be mortified for a private, intimate moment like that to be aired on national television. I think in that moment, Trisa is a hero for all the people, specifically the ladies right there and, and anywhere in her age gap who are made to feel like they can't just get their brains fucked out of them. Literally.

They did not know that that was going to air. No. They definitely did not know that that was there. But they were told that there were mics in the apartment. Yeah. They were told. So when she said, tell me what you want. He said, I want you.

And then they knew that was on record. I do think if that, if I ever had to hear myself, That's what I'm talking about. I would walk into an ocean. That is literally what I'm talking about. Yes. And I will say, Nick and I have said this a million times, we feel very protective over this cast. Obviously, like, we look at it a little bit differently than maybe we look at some other shows that we recap.

And when I did hear that, I was like, oh my God, Teresa, I want to like just, I know you. I hope she feels no shame. You are just going to be. Well, because the whole time she's like worried about her kids. Yeah. Opinion. And then now I'm like, just. Like her kids are going to hear Mommy Mown.

Kids are going to hear. No, I don't want to hear, I don't want anybody in my life to hear me moan. Other than Danny. When you think about your creation, don't you hope that your parents enjoyed themselves? I don't want to do. Did you guys not accidentally almost walk in on your parents ever? Never. Nick, you never did that?

They had like nine chances for you to walk in. One of my best friends walked into my parents. walked into my mom having a baby. What? What? Was she having a baby in a house? At the last three bursts, my mom chose to have home births. You know, after eight.

She was like, I just might as well try some other things out. Oh my gosh. Like at this point. I was a junior in high school and, you know, it was at the time where your friends that I kind of feel very comfortable walking in out of your friend's houses. Where was she giving birth?

Yeah, what stage? I don't think he saw anything he couldn't come back from. Oh, God. So no crowning. He's like, I was holding her leg. I was helping. But it. He's an OBGYN now.

He ended up being a gula. Yeah. No, I think he's an accountant. But then on the flip side, we have Vanessa and Logan who, she's like, babes, I'm friend zoned. What's going on here? I need some action. To be with your.

What are we worth words, that one? To have, to be Vanessa and who, by the way, Vanessa. love that girl. Love. Love her. Love her down. To be like finally with your like hot guy that you've gotten and then he's acting like your roommate. But then his answer was like definitely respect. Yeah. You know, it was like, okay.

She doesn't want to be respected. I mean, the way. Yeah. It's like I don't want you to respect. The double standard that we have when if a guy is waiting to be intimate, the way we are like what's the wrong wrong with you dude well that's this gonna say too it's been kind of interesting is seeing like the younger men on this show where I feel like I don't know how like just like raised in a way to where it's like understanding consent understanding respect and it's like really interesting

to watch or even um uh Leah and Chris like it's like Chris being like I have my routine I like to be left alone like this is a lot for me and like she's just like I just want somebody to sit on the couch and love me. And it's like, it's just very interesting seeing where different people are at. And then it really doesn't have anything to do with their age. It's just like what they're looking for in a relationship. But it is very interesting to me seeing these like young hot men that are like, I just wanted to take my time and respect you. And I'm just like, okay. I think you see that with Logan. With Chris, I think you will, more will be revealed. Chris, I'm not saying, yeah, like in the sense of gentlemen, but I just think it's really interesting that he's so like regimented and like set in his ways,

I guess. He just seems very selfish. Keep in mind when these people are filming, they have no phones, they have no TV, they have no friends and family. It is, you know, like love is blind or like The Bachelor, and, you know, it is, this is an experiment and they are creating an environment

to maximize these people's feelings. So for Chris to be like, well, I'm going to the gym and I'm going to go, you know, I'm going to take a nap. Like, the goal is to spend as much quality time with the person you have a limited time with. So it's an interesting choice by Chris to like, to,

and Leah's like, I have nothing else to do. Can you realize that right? Like, we're supposed to be hanging out. That's like the whole thing. Wait, I have a question.

Like, so then when they're in the apartments, are they allowed to leave the apartment? No, they have to be with each other the whole time. No, they can do, clearly, they can do whatever they want.

Chris did, you know, like we saw with Jorge and Vanel and we'll get some clarity, at least Vanel's side of the story, when we interview Vannell about like what happened on the streets of Vancouver but like that was a moment

where they weren't being filmed they were like we're gonna go shopping like a handler what's it called like a producer with them the producers just kind of keep an eye and out because the show is in those moments responsible for them but like the the cast was allowed to hang out

and spend time together even when they weren't being filmed and they very much we wanted them to take advantage of that moment that's why I'm wondering at Leah like I guess maybe like they weren't going out as much or doing many things outside of what was filmed like she felt like there wasn't enough

quality time is what outside of just being in the apartment is what I was trying to figure out and it seems like from Chris aside he's like I'm just so tired I just like need to sleep as much as possible well it is kind of giving when the camera's not around Chris was going to do his thing

that's what I'm wondering yeah and I just think Leah is a very like great she's great TV she's like a bright Yeah, she's stunning, great TV. She's a flight attendant that I would be best friends walking out of a flight. Yeah. And she deserves to have someone that will spend time with her.

Well, there was some recent headlines based around Age of Attraction. Ashley, who was in our cast, she, her story got cut. She is a 38-year-old virgin. Oh. Yeah, and she, the press is picking it up. The press is wondering why her story isn't covered, why she's cut out. was she in a couple? She was also seeing Andrew. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean, that was a connection that was being explored.

Okay. I just, I, as someone who's rooting for this show's success, the fact that this is making headlines, I love that for us. I love it when there's so much interest in a show that stories like these turn into like quote unquote news as if it was like something nefarious happened. Yeah. Or anything like that. The truth is, you know, they are making a TV show. And like a lot of this conversation came up on last season of Love is Blind. A lot was made about them not being part of,

of Mexico when they filmed. And the excuse that we heard was budget. And when you're not involved in that production, that always kind of feels like, really, you couldn't, like you couldn't go in the hotel room. But like, there is a lot of truth in it. Like, well, for us, age of attraction,

this was a new season, right? So like, we got eight episodes, certainly as host. We hope it gets picked up. I hope there's a season two. If there's a season two, we hope there's more episodes. But it is a new season.

And like with these seasons, they don't know if it's going to work. They're betting a lot on an unproven concept. They don't know their cast, things like that. And it's not just sometimes about like giving an extra room. For every couple that you film, there has to be camera crews. There has to be audio. There has to be producers that can handle that. You know, you have to have a team in place.

So more and more of these new reality TV shows have smaller crews, smaller budgets, things like that. So like budgets are a real thing. So as far as our lovely Ashley, who is, you know, what we learned when filming was a virgin, obviously anyone is a virgin on a reality TV show, there's an interest there. But she didn't enter in a connection that, like, the show ended up following. You know, we were very lucky with this show to have as many connections made. I think there were 14 connections made, half of which that were like similar ages.

Yeah. And then the other, like, age differences. But, like, the show is limited early on in terms of, like, they have sometimes have to tough choices. There's nothing nefarious about it. There's nothing scandalous. It's just like new season, limited budget, don't know how it's going to work. And they have a limited crew to handle this. And I, you know, I imagine after thinking about how it went down an age of attraction, the Vic and Christine, you know, also when we're, when you're filming this, you don't know who's going to pop. You don't know how the audience is going to respond. Like you are thinking about it. You're making guesses.

But when we were filming, it's just like Justin, who we are excited to have on the show that everyone seems to be falling for. We didn't get to watch that moment when you got teary-eyed about like maybe not being a father. You know, that's like a one moment in a TV show when you're filming it. That lets, is this kind of lost on you? There's so much going on. There's all these interviews. And then when you watch it back, something pops and really has a moment. It's when you're making it very hard to determine that it's going to happen.

So I think when fans are watching it, you're always like. like, why didn't they fucking do this? Why didn't you do this? How did they not know this? It's like, sometimes we're just as surprises you guys how things kind of organically, you know, the audience responds to it. So I think it's this kind of a little background there on how reality TV is I appreciated that you guys showed those small moments of the other couples that were on the show. Like, I think that's something that we don't really acknowledge when we do watch shows that are love related. And I feel like it was cool to be like, yeah, there's other people here. And they were closer in age and some of them weren't. And when we were making it, there was,

there was a lot of conversations about do we follow one couple that's of similar age in a way that kind of gives validity to the couples that were in different age. Yeah, the control. It's like a control couple in a way. I think there continues to be more discussion about if there is a season two, do we do that? But again, this is a, it's a new show. You know, hopefully we make some cool changes and add to what has been a really successful first season.

But yeah, it's not, you know, we just kind of. of figure it out as we go, you know. And that's how it's, it's, it's almost never some kind of nefarious reason, you know. Well, speaking of one of these individuals that didn't get a ton of airtime, but when he did, he certainly left a meaningful mark. Justin is with us to talk about his experience on age of attraction and what is next for his love story. Just, while a thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that makes

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Hi, how are you guys? We are so good. and Nick had to step out. He was like, I just can't see Justin's face. I get too emotional, like thinking about how we didn't follow his story. So I just can't even participate. How are you doing? How is watching the show back, Ben? I'm doing really well. Thank you for asking. It's nice to see you. Watching the show back, you know, I had a lot of anxiety about it, candidly, because, you know, it's just my first experience with like anything kind of national TV-wise. And I was worried that I had been like, I don't know, like too vulnerable.

or to it, I guess. I don't know. But, yeah, once I saw everything, it was really kind of beautiful to watch everybody's stories being told. And there was a lot that I didn't know, obviously, because I had gone home early.

I mean, you're a fan favorite. Everyone is, like, raving about you. Me and my five minutes of fame. Sure. I mean, everyone is like, no shit to Jorge, but they're like, Vanel, what were you thinking? He's a catch. Yeah, like, how has it?

the fan reaction been and felt for you? It's been overwhelming in a positive way. Everybody has been super kind and like I was going into this like prepared that everybody was going to be like super mean and like tell me everything that was wrong with me and like how ugly I am. And it hasn't been that so far. Knock on wood. So it's been really great. Everybody's just reached out and has been super nice and it's it's a lot to take in but it's been a really pleasant and very sweet experience overall well what initially made you want to do the show originally i wanted to do the show um you know it kind of came out of the blue is the candid answer i had broken up with my girlfriend like three months before and like some of her parting advice was like you know you should go date

somebody younger and then Netflix reached out and I was like, I was, they knew it. It's so Kismet. It's perfect. Why did she say that, why do you think that was her feedback? I mean, a lot of reasons. Obviously, I have a ton of shortcomings in relationships where I would not be the age that I am and be single. So, but, you know, she's relatively close to my age and has a child. And I think, you know, just some differences in dynamics and, you know, some opportunities for me to grow and be a better person. And I learned a lot in that relationship. And part of that was, you know, sound advice and that I needed to kind of like work on myself and figure out how I can be a present and contributing partner. But we're still really great friends. I'm still really close with her son

and a big part of their lives. So it was all for the best for sure. you mentioned on the show, which I think is a part that really got a lot of people, was you talking about, like, not being married and not having kids by a certain age can be seen as a red flag. And you talked about not having kids yet, not being a father yet. Can you explain a little bit more about that? Yeah. So, but when you get to be a certain age, you know, I think women have expectations that you're probably not just women. Honestly, my family as well, my mother has expectations that I will be married and have a grandchild for her. And, you know, I think it's one of the most challenging kind of like periods in culture at large, not just specific to a particular age group, but one of the most challenging periods for dating in general. You know, it's like everybody's in kind of these open situationships and like looking for the next best thing. And I think there's a lot of kind of like macro education around like what are kind of like the red flags and shortcomings of, a particular demographic. And I think for men of my age, not being married and not having kids, is definitely one of those kind of precursors of like there might be something off with this guy.

Not to say that I'm perfect. But yeah, it's just something I've always wanted. And it just did not work out for me in that way or hasn't. It is so true, though, that it's like a double-edged sword. It's like, you meet someone of a certain age and you're like, wait, why haven't you been married or have kids? Like, what's wrong with you? But then you're also like, wait, it's so nice. He's never been married. He doesn't have any kids. We're both starting fresh. So it is interesting how like different people can take it. It's interesting. Just I don't know how everybody translates everything. And like everybody's on like, are we dating the same guy? And like, you know, it's just like this wild. It's the wild west out there in terms of dating as you know. Hey, can I take a break and say congratulations

on your upcoming babies? Twins. Crazy. That's incredible. I will say I was. so surprised at like what a positive overall experience it was like i the truth is natalie like i walked into the room with all the guys and i was like i'm gonna hate all of these guys because they're all gonna be hockey and they're all going to be like you know out for drama and you saw i mean you saw you talked to a ton of them like everybody's been like super emotionally intelligent like grounded hori like i love like everybody like we've all maintained this really close friendship after the fact. And yeah, so I was so pleasantly surprised.

You're kind of a heartthrob on the show. Have you been getting some crazy DMs? Like, what is that looking like right now? I get a lot of, I get a lot of DMs. Yes, I don't really know how to manage it, honestly, because I've never really, and I don't consider myself a heart throb at all. Like, I'm definitely a dork, but that's part of the reason. That's part of the heart.

Yeah. Just stay doing that. Whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. Yeah, that shouldn't be a problem. That's been a long time. But, but yeah, no, it's been, and, you know, there's like guilt associated with it because it's like, oh, look at all these nice messages. And it's like, I should go through and say something. And then it's like, well, what I don't really know what I would say other than thank you. But yeah, it has been, the response has been completely unexpected and wildly encouraging, I think. Was part of the date with you and Vinald, the massage date, was she supposed to massage you next?

Yes, she did massage me next, but they cut that part out. Oh, she did. Okay, because I was going to say, I feel like, you know, she should have waited until after you got your massage to break up with you because that didn't seem so fair. Yes, so, I mean, about that, like, I was, I was on a plane back from L.A. for work. I had gotten a text message from the team, from the production team, and they're like, hey, like, are you, are you ready? And I was like, oh, I think I'm like not in the show at all. I was like, you know, like I didn't find love or whatever. And they're like, oh, no, you're in the show.

And I was like, my first question was, did you cut the massage scene? And she was like, oh, my God. That's like the one thing that I didn't want, obviously, on television. But it was, yeah. I mean, they had to show us that far. We all would have been like, what happened? Yeah. They had to show them.

At least they were honest about it. So I had like a couple of days to like prepare stuff. But I did not sleep. Did you finish her massage? Like did after the breakup like did you finish giving her a massage or like what? Like did she give you a massage first or what happened like right after? Yes. Actually, I can't remember.

She may have given me a massage first and then the scene where I was giving her a massage. and then like the breakup happened. But yeah, I mean, it was, you know, I mean, she was such a kind-hearted person and like, just so eloquent about like how she communicated about everything and well-intentioned. And, you know, like I said, on the show, just because I met you first doesn't mean that I have some sort of like onus. You know, I don't have, it doesn't mean that I'm more deserving or anything like that. And I really liked Jorge. And I think he's like such a charismatic, gregarious guy.

And I was sad to see that they didn't work, but it was also like this staunch reminder of like some of the complexities that can come from like big age gaps, right? So I mean, did you realize like watching it back how swaggy you are with like the kiss scene? No. All I could think about was how bad I looked and like. No. No, no. Justin. No, everyone was like, oh my.

He was like, you're giving me. me eyes. It was hot. It was swaggy. You have a smolder, man. A smolder. Yeah, you kind of got a smolder. You, I mean, you're a fan favorite. Okay, well, that's that. My mom's loving you on the show, by the way. That's very nice to hear. I don't really know. I'm kind of in this, like, social vacuum because all I do is work, but, um, but I do get, like, my brother text me as like, somebody asked about me and somebody like recognized me on a plane today, which was weird. Oh my gosh. Very cool. Yeah. Um, but I do. Um, um, What are you looking for in your next relationship? Should it be season two of age of attraction or out in the wild?

That's a great question. You know, I think what I've always looked for is like, obviously chemistry, I think is really important. Like, there has to be like a baseline of attraction in a relationship. And then, you know, as you get older, and this is such a platitude. But I think, like, compatibility really matters. Like, does your, your lifestyle match, kind of the person that you are investing in. As I've gotten older, I think resilience, because I think that's a lot of what is lacking in relationships is like the ability to kind of like work through something and figure out like how to work a problem or a disagreement or a misalignment. And somebody that will kind of show up and actually do work as opposed to retreat. I really value that in a partner. And it's something that I've tried to

kind of develop a skill set that I've tried to develop as I've gotten, you know, older. So, yeah, I think chemistry, kindness, compatibility, and resilience have I had to put kind of the bullet point list there. Do you feel like you felt an age difference between you and Vinald? I did. I could feel an age difference, but not like a prohibitive one. I think she's actually really intelligent and really has a high EQ. And I think that translated in the show. So I wasn't overly worried about our age gap. Were you shocked to find out she was 27?

She was younger than I thought that she was. Yeah. Yeah, I thought she was in her 30s. Was there anyone else on the show that you clicked with? Yeah. You know, that was the thing is like there were just so many beautiful and amazing and interesting and different people on there. it's like the amount of time that we were there,

you wish that you had kind of six months of it. You know, it's like, let's just all live and work here together and really kind of really get to know each other. It's such an interesting social experiment. But yeah, Catherine and I definitely had our moment. And she's, I saw, I talked to her this morning. And I mean, yeah, we all talk really on a regular basis. So definitely some of my closest friends.

But I'm not seeing anybody. today. Y'all had the notebook date, right? Yeah. You all were out in the canoe and it like, which was so beautiful. I mean, it was like, you know, it was on the water and like there was like a rainbow. I was shocked that that was not part of the series. What's life like right now?

You know, I came out of the show and I was so just overwhelmed with work. I work in health care and senior living. So we do like care in a movement and any movement for people with dementia. and Alzheimer's. But it's a very, like, demanding job. So I've really just been focusing exclusively on that. And trying to exercise a little bit, too, because you could just, like, lose yourself and work sometimes.

So trying to find work-life balance. But, yeah, that's 90% of it. It's a very boring answer. I'm sorry. Where are you based out of? I forget. I live in Charleston, South Carolina. Please visit.

Charleston, yes, yes. Well, Justin, we obviously love you. We, Nick and I. have been telling everyone, like, we're very protective over this cast. Not that anyone has even muttered a bad word about you, but I think we'll always, like, have this first season kind of thing that we all did together, none of us knowing really what it was, but we divulged and did it together, and it turned out pretty amazing. So we are big fans of you. We really hope that you find love and you get married. Any of them? I would love all of those things to happen. And I do

want to say like thank you so much for like you guys were so kind you like you went out of your way and I think we all kind of got in trouble for it but like you went out of your way to come over and like say hi to everybody and talk to everybody and like the concept for the show was like amazing and it was like that honestly was what pulled me into the whole thing the idea that it wasn't going to be this like hyper fictionalized drama and like it was this real kind of social experiment that we were just going to see kind of what happened and we were all kind of figuring it out together but ultimately like you and Nick were just so kind to me and to everybody. And I know that everybody is so grateful for that. So thank you so much. And thank you for having me on today. It's really good to see you guys. Well, we couldn't have continued any of these interviews without having you on. So we are grateful that you fit us into your busy schedule. You're generous. Please tell Nick that I said hi and I'm sad that he wasn't here. I know. I will. I will. If you're ever in LA, please let us know. We'll do. I would love that. Thanks, Justin. Okay, great to see you guys. Thank you. Okay, you too.

Bye. Thank you. Bye. What a sweetheart. Hi. Oh my God. Thanks for handling that, babe. You know what?

I will do anything for you. Yeah. And especially talking to Justin. I had to go do of. Well, I love that man. And I do love him. Yeah. And I said that literally the first day we met him on set.

I was like, I love him. He is so kind. He's so sweet. He's just like a gentle baby girl. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Protect Justin at all costs.

Sweet boy Justin. Sweet man, Justin. Sweet man, Justin. He's a daddy. Well, he's not a daddy. He wants to be. He wants to be in. I'm rooting for him.

Take that however you want. What did we all think of the Jorge and Vinal drama? Well, there's two different moments. Obviously, there's the celibacy conversation. Then there's the walk on the streets of Vancouver. In terms of the celibacy conversation, I relate to Vanel more just because, like, I do come from a religious background, Orthodox Judaism,

and Danny and I have different ways of practicing. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm a lot more observant than he is. And, like, I can be very wishy-washy with, like, what I decide to observe and what I decide to do. And to Danny, it makes no sense. But to me, in my own brain, it does. And it's very hard to explain yourself because it's just, like, how you, feel. Yeah, yeah. And I come from obviously a similar religious background where, you know,

like you grow up and every time, you know, you make out, like you just, they're like that shame of like, oh my God, I'm in trouble. God's going to really be mad at me. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's a challenge. But I imagine though when you like the words you use, that's why it's even more important when you communicate your expectations that you use language that isn't confusing, no? Well, 100%, but I just think that, like, circumstances change, things change and, like, your opinions can change, right? So it's like, while I, you know, wanted, you know, for observing the Sabbath, for example,

like, I used to observe it fully. And then, like, as time goes on, like, there are little things that I'm like, okay, I'm going to start doing that now. And I don't observe fully, but like there are still certain things that like I don't want to do like going on an airplane, for example. And to Danny, that makes no sense because it's like, wait, but you're going to get in a car, but you won't get on a plane. Like that doesn't make any sense, right? And it's like I don't know how to explain why I feel nervous to get on a plane on the Sabbath. But like I am comfortable driving a car. I just can't explain it. But it makes no sense. No, I hear you. Are you at least willing when Danny is confused?

to have those conversations, or are you always like, listen? It frustrates me. I will admit, like, it makes me feel very frustrated. And I think part of it is because I'm so confused and I don't know how to explain myself. But I'm saying, like, I really relate to Vanel because I think that, like, she has a hard line that, like, she understands in her brain. And it's hard for her to communicate that to Jorge. And he is, it does feel at times talking at her rather than with her. And it's hard when somebody's, like, like, asking you, like, to explain yourself and you

don't know how to explain yourself because it's just something that you feel. And like, while it may not make sense the way that you explain it, it's so important to you. And it's like, I can't explain to you why or how or what is going through my brain. But it just is and this is how I feel and just accept it. Like, I don't want to talk about it anymore. And I say that to Danny. Are you listening? By the way, though. I do say that to Danny. I'm like, I don't want to talk about this anymore because you're not here, like, you're not going to understand where I'm coming from. And that's just that. It makes sense to me.

I don't know what else to say. I don't know how to make it make sense to you because I acknowledge that it's confusing, but this is what I want to do and this is my boundary and I just need to say that. You are doing that thing. You at least are acknowledging that it's confusing to you and that it doesn't make sense.

And you want Danny to accept that, which makes sense. And again, we're only responding to what we watch on the show. But it seems like Vannell is like in the promise room was like, yo, I'm celibate. She didn't really elaborate. She's just like, I'm celibate. Jorge was like, you know,

celibacy feels like a religious, almost like a, like has religious context that word. It's not like, hey, I, listen, I'm, I abstain from sex or I don't have, like it has like that connotation. And then they get together, lights go off. Things happen. The oral intimacy is, as Veno pointed out. And then Jorge seems to me.

want to have a conversation about like, well, I'm confused. And, but she doesn't want to, she's just like, but what are you confused about him? Sellebitt, you know, and she seems to be unwilling to like, she just wants Jorge to be okay with that, kind of like you are, but he's also just like wants some, well, wait, but like, I thought that meant one thing. You clearly think it means something else. And I just want to get on the same page. And then with the tricky part about their relationship is she really wanted when she said that for Jorge to like in the promise room to accept her choices and be done with that. And it seemed like he was more like, hey, this whole thing, this us is we're unsure about yet. You know, like I'm still, you know, this whole experiment isn't over. Like we met in this large group of people, other people. Now we're getting into the second phase, which is to live together. Then we maybe might meet some loved ones. Then we'll come to a decision. And he's not done making, his decision on... He wasn't clear about that

in the promise room, though. It seemed like he accepted what she was saying about celibacy. She gave him a little more which I think he should just be like grateful for and then you know what I mean?

Like to Jorge, it's like you're getting more than you thought you would have. Where I'm like, you're still getting more than you thought you would have. How is that different than Logan and Vanessa

having a similar conversation about intimacy and what their comfort levels were and why can that be an ongoing conversation? Well, I think with Jorge and Vinell, you have Vennel using the phrase and the boundary of celibacy, which is different than Logan and Vanessa, kind of just figuring out what intimacy means to them without those like stated boundaries. It's a more firm boundary where it's like, this is my belief, this is my relationship with God.

And I'm not going to cross that line. And like, to me, I have my own, like, I have my own deal with God, right? And I feel that way too. like in general. I like, I have a deal with God and it's very complex and it only lives in my own head and I cannot explain it. Why I'm, I kind of lean more towards Vanel's side and obviously I am a 25 year old like my dad's a Lutheran pastor. It's a very different like I'm a 25 year old like queer woman whose dad is a pastor. So like me and Jorge obviously you have a different experience of being PKs as he is a 60 year old like man. But I think there is a.

a way that you are raised with the awareness that, like, you are living your life and service to other people a lot of the time. At least that's my experience. And, like, you have, you are raised with the intention of being, like, all right, you have these gifts. You have your, like, life and personality. And, like, you owe it to be a good person and to, like, be of service of God and, like, share that with others. Right. Like, that's kind of, like, the P.K. thing. And, like, you're expected to help and assist. And so I want to. wonder how that affects Jorge's like mindset, especially he's a defense attorney as well. And like, I don't know, the way he handles the Vannell situation. I just am like, he sounds more

like a lawyer than a PK in that situation. And I'm like, I wish he had a bit more grace for her. Even though her boundaries, yeah, are confusing. She's also like figuring them out like Leah was saying. Religion, intimacy are all parts. Like these are important conversations. Early couples need to have. Yeah. And like, it's fine. that you have this experience that it's hard to explain. Yeah, it's hard to explain, but that's part of meeting someone and having these conversations. And like, it's just very difficult when someone's like, this is how it is. And then they kind of move a little bit differently than what they communicated, but then they still don't want to have the conversation to try to like

get on the same page. That can be very challenging for any couple. I think it's okay to have that conversation. Fair, I've, I've just been, I've been in Vannell shoes before where I've just been like, I'm walking away from this conversation. We're not continuing to have it. I'm firm in where I'm coming from and that's that. It just kind of felt like a weird like conflict where it's just kind of like, again, yes, she might have done more saying that she was celibate or saying like, but she didn't clarify or like they don't think they had any kind of conversation as to like what would happen in a bedroom, but she made it very clear that like that's her line and she's not going across it. So that's where I'm like, if you're still getting intimacy and like whatnot, I don't

understand why we need to argue about how much you get or because this one thing is off the table that this needs to be a conversation that we both need to understand when it's going to happen. She said when she's married is when she's going to give that up. So it's like, I just feel like that's very clear. Yeah, I do think it is very clear. Like to her, it's like oral sex is fine, but sex, sex is not. And that's, that's where she, what she explained. And I don't know why Jorge is still pushing like i don't know what he's confused about i think it's less that horay like i don't think he was doing anything bad i think he just has this yeah he just has a natural tone of like he is a very like he's gonna talk and he's a defense attorney like he has this tone of like authority when he speaks

it's just like in his communication style and so it's like a line of questioning to where i feel like it made her feel like she was like where he didn't mean it to be like he wasn't trying to you know do anything like that but i think it's like when you're a man talking to a woman like I think sometimes, especially in an intimate setting like that, like people get a little bit more like tender. It is an interesting dynamic and we do have Libby and Van Nu with us both to talk about their experiences. And we do get into this discussion.

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We're not stars. Or at least I don't know. I don't see myself as a star. I'm just an ordinary girl. Well, you ladies are recording this before it comes out. So like you don't, you haven't felt. Yeah. So I will say it's really surreal for me to even be on the vial files because I grew up watching The Notchler.

And my mom and I watched your season. And then I remember in San Diego taking off to go to Canada, scrolling past something of your guys is on my feet and being like, what if the show was ever relevant enough to make it on the vile files? Probably not either. walk in. You're the host. I was expecting Vanessa and Nick Lechay or somebody who I was like, Oh, yeah.

I would have never guessed. I see you guys in. Everyone thought it was like Vanessa and Nick. Yeah. Well, we are happy to have been your host. And we love them, obviously. But we love you guys too. Yes.

But now we are family. Yes. So we are bonded at the same family. We love you. I'll be like, I know them. Obviously, this show centers around age differences. And we now know both you ladies are in your 20s.

right? Yes. Something like that. Something like that. Now that your age's probably since then. Yeah. So we're here. You're older now.

I'm a year old. Yeah. Actually, we're 23 and 28 now. Thank you. So we're older now. Are you giving me an a half? And a half? Oh my gosh.

You know, I just had my half birthday of my 23rd. She just celebrated her half birthday. Yeah. What do you guys know about young girls anymore? 23. I just turned 28. last month. Happy birthday. So when you guys, I'm curious for when you guys showed up to do this show, what were your expectations and why did you guys decide to say yes to it? Yeah, I mean,

I'll speak for me. Like I generally was coming on here to find my husband. Like literally, like there was nothing else on my mind to literally, other than like finding my husband. Like that was literally it. That's a beautiful approach from you. Vanilla, I don't know if I can say the same. I was like, if I could find my husband and ride off into the side. sunset, that would be great. Would that probably ever happen for me? No. But let's try. Let's try and find out. I don't think I was expecting as big of an age gap dynamic as what it was. I think it was just kind of like, oh, you know, there's going to be everybody of all ages. And I'm not somebody who's ever sought out an older guy on my own. But I was like, if this is the way that this is going to go for me, then cool.

Like there might be a 30-year-old there. Yeah, I was going to think I was thinking that I was just going to end up with whoever was my age anyway. I didn't know that this would be the whole topic of the show. But here we are. Really? I don't think I was expecting it to be as prevalent as it was as far as the age gaps. And you clicked with Andrew right off the bat. I mean, did you have any other guys that you were looking at? Not really. Honestly, I think I saw the group walk in and one or two caught my eye. But the second that I started talking to everyone, there were some great friendship connections. As soon as I really got to know everybody on a personal level, I think all the guys are amazing. But as far as dating, I don't think I was really ever super interested in anybody but Andrews.

Van Nu, you were a little different. You had a couple of love interest, Jorge, that we got to watch that unfold. But also Justin. Yeah. Shout out Justin. You know, a sweetheart. A bit of a fan. fan fave out there.

Really? Is he all these? I have a soft spot for Justin. I think he's so sweet. What was the ultimate reason that you leaned towards Jorge over Justin? Honestly, like, Justin was very similar to the type of guys I've dated in the past. Like, very, like, I'm also very, like, reserved and a little bit quiet. Justin was similar to me, but he was also just very sweet, such a gentleman. And Jorge was a little different from most guys I've dated before.

He was very outgoing. It brought a little bit of like excitement out of me. And he brought out like a goofy side of me. So I was just very intrigued by Jorge. I think that's what it was ultimately. And then I started to just really enjoy getting to know him. So yeah. How old did you think he was before he revealed his age?

I literally thought he was like 45, 50 max. Like there's no way in my mind. I was like, this guy is six years old. There's no way. You know what's funny, Vanel? No way. So when y'all had your commitment ceremony, we were on set and they were like, Natalie, you might need to go in and like talk to Vanel because she might be so shocked that she like needs

to talk to somebody because she is like not going to be expecting this at all. She has told us so many times like she will stay in the 40s. She does not want to date anyone else. outside of 40. No, literally. I was, like, I could not believe it. But, like, also at that point, like, my mind was just so set on, like, him and my connection with him and how I felt about him to where it's like, at that point, like, the age thing just, like, didn't even matter to me. I was like, this guy could have been, like, 80 years old. And I would have been like, yeah, let's, let's, let's continue. Let's get married. At that point, at that stage in the process, you were. Too deep.

You were, I mean, I believe you were like, you were telling people you had found your guy. Yes. And thanking some people for introducing you to the love of your life. Your husband, I think is what you said. I definitely, definitely was like, yeah, like, this is definitely like my husband. Like, I don't know if everyone was able to see, but I definitely was starting to really fall for him. Like, a hard, hardcore. Like, hardcore.

Yeah, I definitely was like, this is my husband. I was like, Vannell is in love. You had his real. bring on. She was saying, my man, my man, my man. I was like, they are solid. She's got her man. Let's go. In the promise room, you, y'all talked about a lot. You asked him a question about children. You told him that you were celibate. Are celibate? Yeah. He did not answer your kid's question. Yeah. How do you remember that going? Yeah. So I remember, I remember I told him about my abstinence, we talked about the kid, and then he immediate was like, oh, like,

I know you want kids, but, like, didn't, like, ask, I know you want kids. I'd be something about being open to having kids, but never, like, mentioned, oh, I already have kids, right? So in my mind, I'm like, okay, this guy doesn't have any kids, probably maybe wants kids, which I'm open to having kids too, right? It's not something that I'm like, I must have kids. But, yeah, he just never mentioned that he already has kids. So it was just, it was, um, Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, how I remember it is that believe, you know, obviously you guys were, you were very nervous. It's a very nerve-recking moment.

You asked two questions back to back. And you're like, do you want kids? Do you have kids? It was like, I don't even know if you have kids or even if you want kids. Like, that's how you asked it. And then I don't know if he's a savvy. You know, he has a DA. but he answered your second question was he talked about the possibility

and the willingness meant to maybe have kids with you, completely leaving out the, I don't even know if you have kids or even if you want kids. But you know what he told me? Like obviously after like, you know, the promised room, we had conversations about it. And then ultimately he finally told me about his kids.

But he had told me that he didn't want to tell me during the promised room because he said it wasn't like the right time. Like it wasn't the right time to tell me I don't know I don't know what the right time would have been But you weren't processing him being 60 So that was a lot That would that would have been the right time

But I guess for him it wasn't the right time And it's you know I don't know Okay And Levy you found out How soon that Andrew has two kids I think I heard whispers of it And he definitely leads with that

I don't think it's any sort of secret to him because he wants to make it known that he's a father. I just wasn't aware of the ages, which then kind of made sense of his age. So, wait, how old are they again? They're 12 and 14. Oh, okay. Yeah. Pretty grown up. Yeah. Yeah, I think I asked you what was more shocking, finding out that you were closer to his 14-year-old or the fact that he was closer to 40. What did you think about that? Because, you know, obviously, you know, when it's compared to your age, it's easy to get in your head. But I guess, you know, having daughters that are of the age that they are,

I guess, might be, you know, I suppose if he, like, was fresh out of a relationship with, like, say, a two and a four-year-old work that clearly would have demanded. Yes. A lot of, yeah. You know, not that his kids don't demand a lot of his time, but I think a two- and a four-year-old is a much different dynamic. I imagine that was probably, or how did you feel about that? As I really started to think about it more, I realized.

that that does entail a whole lot less of craziness having two daughters because they're not little toddlers running around. You don't have to go pack them their lunches or something. So I would just say the initial even finding out that he was a dad kind of shocked me. And usually if I'm out in the wild and I meet a man and he tells me he's a father, my brain says, okay, no, like that's not what we're doing. That doesn't really make sense for me at this time. So I think just compartmentalizing that first and then finding out their ages and how close I am was the whole shocking part. But once I really thought about it, I did realize like, okay, if the girls are 12 and 14, that's fun. That's awesome. Like, I think that that's cool that you're a girl dad, you know? So once I really thought

about it, it wasn't as scary as I thought. But the fact of the, the age dynamic between me and the kids and that it's a pretty small gap. That's the part where I was like, oh, oh. And then how old are you and then how old were you when you had been and how old are you that's what scared me. Hmm. Hmm. All right. Can you name a spice girl now or? I can name a couple of spice girls. Yeah. So I never said I didn't know who they were. I said I couldn't name one. I know about posh now. I know about sporty. Did you go Google it after? No. No. Um, you didn't go Google it? No. Um, and I love the song Wanna Be. Um, no, no hate to the Spice Girls. I definitely know who you are.

I don't know the names. I don't think that was my time. Was it? No, it was not. Baby Spice. Vannell, a big discussion point on this season is, well, you and Jorge had a couple of disagreements. And one of them was very much centered around the bedroom. Why are you saying like that?

The bedroom. The bedroom. The bedroom. Dot, dot, dot. What are you out to say? Say it with your chest. Celibate. Yes.

And I guess the definition of celibacy or what it means. And, you know, it was very interesting to hear you guys talk about this. When you first told Jorge about the fact that you are celibate, what conversations did you have around that? And did you get into any details around, you know, what your boundaries were or what they weren't, is it relates to celibacy? Yeah. So when I first told him was during the promised room and I kind of just wanted to like let him know, like get it off my chest. And well, he really comforted me and was like, oh, like this is what you've been like, you know, having weighing on you?

Why didn't you tell me sooner? Like it's totally fun. It's like, I have no issue with this. That's what I gathered from that conversation. But no, we never had any like, I guess conversations about like boundaries around it. I guess in my mind, I just, I thought it's just a known thing. Like when you say your celibate, you just know what it is. I'll say this.

Like, obviously, Jorge and I, we're very attracted to each other. We had, we're very, like, romantic and stuff, but my celibacy boundaries were not broken. Okay. Yes, that is clear. That is clear. Did you never have,

a conversation of like, this is what this means to me. This is what I would like our relationship to look like. Or was he, we're all just kind of like. Yeah, yeah. We never had that conversation. We never, we never got to a point to have that conversation. Yeah. Do you think if y'all would have had that conversation,

those disagreements, like, wouldn't have happened? Or do you think it was bound to happen just because of his personality? I feel like it was bound to happen because. His personal, like him and I are just very, very different. And I feel like his mindset, I feel like it was bound to happen. Let's just say that. But it definitely would have been helpful to have those conversations, to have that conversation prior.

Y'all also had, I guess the big reason why y'all broke up. Actually, you tell me, why did y'all break up? I think ultimately, like, we're just not compatible. Like, ultimately, I think age. did play a factor in our relationship. And, you know, Jorge is someone that's had a lot of experiences and had made it known that he's experienced this and, you know, he might know better about this. And, yeah, ultimately, age did play a factor in our relationship.

And, yeah. So you almost felt like what he saw as like a lived experience, you maybe felt like a little condescension? Yeah, yeah, kind of just, yeah. Yeah, I would say that. And it's, I don't know, I felt like once he was very, like, stuck in his way, like, because he's just had these experiences. He feels he knows best.

So it's, it's hard to, I don't know, it's hard to be in it. Can you walk? So there was this moment where you guys get in a fight about you guys seem to be out when they were filming, living together on the streets of Vancouver. And an incident happened. where a third party, it seems like some other person, a guy, apparently approached the two of you. And it sounded, you know, this is all, you guys were just describing what happened. And so just to refresh your memory, Jorge, you know, got into it with this guy.

And apparently that made you feel uncomfortable. And then you guys got in this big debate. You basically were saying, hey, that made me uncomfortable. And Jorge's response was, don't tell me how to be a man. Sure, yeah, I mean, he was basically like, this is what I'm going to do in these situations, and I would love for you, my partner, to back me up because I'm not, you know, I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do in this situation. And you guys, you couldn't. Yeah, you guys both seem to like have a hard time. Yeah. Yeah. And I think in that moment, like, when we're having that conversation, I think in that moment, we just weren't trying to understand each other, put each other or put one another in each other. shoes. So that's kind of where the clash was. But also with that,

what happened with that, yeah, we were walking back from getting ice cream. There was just some random guy. I thought he was just homeless, random guy on drugs or something, said something to Jorge and I. And, you know, Jorge turned around, is going back and forth with this person.

And then this person keeps, like, walking. He has a skateboard. He's walking behind us, still going back and forth. And then it gets to a point where now Jorge is talking about like fighting this person and they're both like going at it and about to like literally like physically fight. And it just made me uncomfortable because that was the first time that I saw a different side to Jorge that I have never seen before. Right. And you know, I'm not used to most men I date like I said. I'm not used to guys I date wanting to get in a fight. Like I don't know. In my mind, I'm like, you're very grown. You're grown. Like there's, you know, like in the way I was trying to explain. to him is like there was a way that, you know, you could have diffused the situation, right? Because, you know, the guy could have had a gun or could have had a knife, could have came out and stabbed us, or whatever it is. It could have been diffused. You could have ignored him and just

like kept walking. Like, there's just so many like different routes we could have taken. And I said that to him. And I think it triggered Jorge because it came off as if I was trying to tell him, like how to, like, behavior, like what to do as a man, right? And in that moment, I think he was also just trying to protect him, me in the best way that he knew how to in that moment. But you being in part of that situation, you felt there were moves he could have made. Yeah, that could have avoided that whole situation. It didn't need to get to that place that it did, and you feel like Jorge played a role in that.

Exactly, exactly. Had he just ignored it and we kept walking, it would have just not been anything, honestly. Like, yeah, like I said, that was a random guy. He didn't know us, right? It wasn't. And y'all weren't like, y'all didn't have cameras on you. Like, y'all were just walking. We were just literally like walking. Like it wasn't. It literally had nothing to do with us. So yeah. But yeah, like I said that, I saw a different side to him at that point. And it just, it made me, the whole situation made me. So it's not like out of nowhere some guy came up to you guys and in and things immediately got aggressive where Jorge was required to step in. Because honestly, watching it back, it was kind of unclear. No, no. It was. We were walking. It was a big distance.

It was like me and like the guy was like that far out. And the guy like yelled and like was like, yo, you talking shit? Blah, blah, blah. And then like was yelling. But like obviously Horne and I were, it wasn't like this close. Like it was far out. And he yelled back for the guy to hear him. Yeah.

And then he yelled back like mind your up and business or whatever. And then at that point now we're walking. The guy's walking closer. Like, you know. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I definitely, yeah, that clears things up because it was for sure kind of like, did someone, like, come up and try to hurt you?

No. And then he was, like, stopping it. But then, yeah, it's like, we've, all of us have been in a situation where we're walking and someone says something. You know, you just keep walking. Yeah. Like, am I crazy for, like, thinking, like, why didn't need to go there? Like, that could have been, like, ignored. Like, if they did start fighting, like, you, what are you, like, you're just standing?

Like, what? Like, what? it would just have gone too far. Like I understand if the person like literally like came up and was like literally trying to attack me. Like yeah, go fight that person. But like you know what I mean? Right. Am I 100%?

No, no, no. No, it makes sense. But that was context we didn't have. Okay. And it was unclear. We knew something happened. Mm-hmm. But I think that was the big question is like because you, what you communicate at the time was it just made you feel uncomfortable.

And again, obviously, we don't get to see everything that it said between the two of you guys. But we were missing the, like, kind of the play-by-play. Like, what actually happened? Was this a situation that got escalated? I think that was a big question. Did Jorge play a role in escalating the situation of the point? Or did Jorge get caught up in something? And all he did was try to protect his woman and de-escalate a situation.

So thank you for. clearing that up. Libby, how shocked were you to hear that Jorge was 60? I didn't know. Same as Andrew, I didn't know there were 60-year-olds there. Oh. And would I guess that? Don't think so.

What would you have guessed? Maybe like 45 to 50. I don't think I was thinking 60. Yeah, same as me. And when I heard, when I saw you guys come in and I heard there was what, a 33-year-old age gap. I was like, wait, what? Because you guys look really normal together. I wouldn't be like, oh, this is a super big age gap couple.

So I would say I was shocked really just to hear how big the gap between you guys were. What was for you as you started dating Andrew on the show? What were some of the biggest challenges that you felt in your relationship, whether age had something to do with it or just getting to know each other? The main thing was really just me trying to process his age and the fact that he had kids and his life. And I think that it takes a really secure person. to be open to really like weaving yourself in somebody's already existing life and thinking, how can I step into this? How can I be a part of this? How can this feel normal? So I would just say

me trying to process everything that a life with him would entail. I feel like, you know, it'll be interesting when the show comes out, like what some of the discourse and some of the commentary is. But as we all know when it comes to, I guess, pop culture, it seems like a lot of the criticisms often are centered, you know, towards the women, right? So like, you know, if you're Teresa or Vanessa, you know, it's like it's not normalized to see an older woman dating a younger man. If we see a younger woman dating an older man, you know, I think that's all, you know, like, oh, you don't know better. Yeah, like, you know, she's been taking advantage of. She's been taking Yeah. So I'm just curious from your lady's perspective who, you know, you're both in your 20s and on the show you both date men decently older than you.

What would you say to the people who have some of these kind of low hanging fruit criticisms as it relates to age differences? Yeah, I love that question. I feel like that's a really good topic to touch on because I don't think it's one size fits all when it comes to age gap relationships. While we were filming, I thought that the dynamic between Andrew and I was a very equal relationship. And it wasn't like here he is this older guy and I'm this younger girl following him around and he just sees me as one thing. I think intellectually we really met each other in the same space. And that was something that I really found refreshing about him was his emotional intelligence and that I thought that I could have a conversation about my life, my goals, my relationship. whatever it may be, and he could meet me there. And I found, I kind of felt like that wasn't something that I experienced with younger guys or guys my age. So I found it really refreshing that I

felt like we both had stuff to benefit from each other and we elevate each other in different ways. And we could learn different things from each other. He had life questions asked me. I had once for him, it wasn't, I think, the typical dynamic that you might make a stereotype about or assume with an older man and a younger girl. And I felt like when we were filming, as I got to know him better and better, I was like, I have way more in common with you than I do with any guy I've ever dated. Mind you, that's because he also likes to get his nails done and go shopping. He's one of the girls. But I don't know, he was so much more relatable to me. And I thought, if I go on the show and I date an older guy, I don't think that in my day-to-day life I ever

found myself seeking out order guys and really finding them specifically attractive. It's not something I was looking for, but he looked young to me. He acted young to me and he met me where I was at. So if that comes with being 38 and having two kids, in the moment, I was like, cool, there's worse things to have. Love. Also, y'all do your morning affirmations and he's like, I'm a bad bitch. I'm the baddest bitch. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Is he really? That little line. You said I taught him that little line. Vannell, is there any chance that, or maybe you guys already have in terms of you and Justin reconnecting and exploring that relationship or is that ship sailed? It was the team now.

Yeah, no. Justin and I haven't spoken since the show. We had a quick conversation just about, you know, his experience and stuff like that. But ultimately, I don't, I think it's just, it's been gone. Like, there's feelings that's been lost. already. Yeah, I think it would just be weird now. What if you had a chance to ask Jorge anything or getting any clarification about your experiences on the show together, would you have any? No. I'm curious. Okay. No. Okay. Well, ladies, this has been great catching up with you.

Thank you. Hopefully we'll get to get to do it again soon. Well, excited to see what happens with you and Andrew. You know, sorry it didn't work out with you and Jorge. It's okay. You seem like you're glowing. It's like you are doing just great. We definitely hope to catch up with you and get you aware of you now. What is your love life like now? I'm single. Are you like DMs open? Are you accepting? My DMs are like wide open. Okay. Very single. Yeah, I'm still searching for my husband. Who is your celebrity crush? I would say Michael B. Jordan. That are up.

I do believe he is single. And he is. We saw him at a party last week. Perfect. Oh, I'm in a good word. Interesting. So maybe there's something there. Something.

Something. Well, ladies, it's great catching up with you. We really appreciate you being a part of this show. And yeah, just Excited for the journey. Yeah, excited for the journey. Yeah, enjoy it. Stay off. Don't read the comments.

Don't let the comments get to you. I already did. You don't know who the Spice Girls is. Open a book. I said, I've been reading. Nothing said anything about the Spice Girls. What books are you reading? Yeah, what's Spice Girl?

I don't see that in my self-help spirituality books. Okay? All right. Well, Libby and Vanel, those are my girls. I mean, I really just, I've, I vibe with that in the moment they walked in herself. Yeah. She's just like, I don't really care what you think.

Yeah. She's great. She is one of the younger ones and she obviously has a very bubbly personality. And I think sometimes people will assume they see that and read bubbly immature. I think as the season goes along and get to know Libby a little bit more, you will see those moments of why there's a connection between her and Andrew. What I enjoy about the show a lot and especially with Libby and Vanessa. is how I think you have the opportunity to see a lot of younger people who still have whimsical natures, but like that doesn't necessarily relate to immaturity, right?

Like you were saying. And I think there's a lot of complexities to, you know, anyone at any age of just like what emotional maturity means and how that presents itself. And I think it's a very interesting kind of like case study across this whole show and meeting everyone in the cast of just being like, wow, everyone really does have. have a lot to them. Getting into some secret lives of Mormon wives, I hate to say it. I'm kind of struggling with this season. Too much dad talk. Too much dad talk.

Way too much airtime for the husbands and the dads. I saw a meme about this that said this season four of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives feels like in the Barbie movie when the Ken's takeover Barbie land. Literally. Like it's just like it's just not right. It's not right. Yeah. And guys like I didn't, I don't want to watch this show.

to hear all these men be like, we're emasculated. We also want to make money. Our women are... That's not what the show is a bad talk. You know, I saw an amazing, amazing... I forget if it was like a TikTok or whatever, but it was like, these men need to go to trade school.

Get off TikTok. Go to trade school. Become an electrician. Become a plumber. I will say, overall, it's still a great show. I agree with everyone's take here that, like, what... I don't care about dad talk. It's like, it would...

It's fun if it's like, oh, this is what... my wives do. So like for one day we're going to do a TikTok like pretending to be our wives. It was a funny bit. It was a bit. Right? Yeah. It's not the same as like for example, like when I met Natalie, I had this show here and she was a surgical tech and I was as I got to know her. I was like, hey, I think you're kind of a star. And if you have any interest in doing this with me, I think you'd be great. And I really encouraged Natalie if she was comfortable and said, I think I think you could be a star. And as it turns out, she is and now she's hosting her own Netflix show. And I think it would be weird for me at this stage, given her amazing successes that she's enjoying for me at this point to be like,

whoa, all right, calm down. You know, you're getting a little too successful. But it's, I don't think for a second that Jesse went up to Jordan and said, hey, I think you're a real natural when it comes to this TikTok thing. Dad talk got an opportunity to go to Vanderpump Villa crickets. He said dad talk is funnier than mom talk. Also, not true. Of course they'll all flirt with me. But they also, by the way, like, their whole schick of their dad talk is making fun of the fact that their women are like, you know, like, how do I explain it? Yeah, it comes across really kind of. Yeah.

Like their most recent TikTok was Jacob and Jordan and they were like, who's going to pay the bill, right? And I think Jacob put down Macy's book and Jordan was putting down like a hair extension. And it was like who's paying. for the bill, you know what I mean? And it was like, that's what I'm saying is their whole shtick is making fun of the fact that they are the husband. But that's the thing, though, like, is it a stick or is it something that bothers them? You know, because they keep going back and forth between like, hoho funny TikTok, my wife is the breadwinner versus like Jordan doing a confessional being like, I feel really emasculated by my wife's success. And I want my, I want the credit I deserve.

So I started dad talk. Yeah. It's like, it's like, ew. We did only see the first. two episodes of the season for the audience listening. Yes, this is just episode one and two. To next point, though, like, it confuses me to, like, place the timeline of when this was shot, because, of course,

we've seen the after effects of Jordan reacting to how he was portrayed last season, but this season still portrays that version of Jordan. You know what I mean? Like, it's still portraying the Jordan that's, like, kind of creating situations behind... But, like, is a show portraying it? Or is that just, like, who he is and he's just kind of in denial?

But I'm saying, though, it was, like, even when he came on our show, like, there was a little bit of, like, him showing that he's trying, but I don't see that in, like, in two episodes. The show is moving at a lightning pace that, like, I don't know how they are going to keep up. Live.

Live. It has to be live. I mean, it's giving. We'll do it live. To me, it's giving that the producers of the show don't know how much they have left with these women as their stars continue to blow up and rise, and they're just going to keep filming until someone says stop.

I mean, they're going so. fast and then we have this whole new cycle that's based off of season four which is like macaela and jace are separated and then you're like oh my god oh no and then and then macaela's kind of out there saying not really or we got back together which i can only imagine must be very difficult if you did separate worked on a lot of your shit and then got back together but the world in your audience is six months or 12 months behind your trauma that you have to now relive. Yeah, well, Jesse kind of even talks about that on the show where they're getting ready for the reunion. And she's like, all these things are going to come back up with Demi and with Jordan. And, like, she's starting to get into a better place with both of them. And it's like, all this is going to, like, resurface again.

The Michaela stuff is confusing, though, with Jace. And this is why on pop, I said, like, let's just wait till we hear more about it. Because those headlines came from the show this season airing. So it's like, she was saying that stuff. with these publications. She was saying that stuff was talked about and there's context that's missing. So that's where it's like,

I think she's responding to the show itself, not like. It's hard to say. Yeah. It's hard to say because these women are so online and they are trying to very much juggle their lives that are very much intertwined with this show.

I will say Taylor picking up her crush at the airport is some of the most real 2026. Like, you know, like, yes. Right? Yes. You're meeting someone online. long distance.

Been there. I've been the crush. If you haven't picked up a crush at the airport, you're not living. You're not. It's like awkward, but like, rightfully so, why not? Oh my God.

You're like, what are we doing? I literally, yeah. Both of them. Even the person being picked up like, like, hey. Like, Nick and I did that a lot in the beginning.

And I remember it was always like, what do I wear? Like, do I wear something? Then you're like, but then I'm flying. Like, I don't need to do too much. Yeah. And then Nick is like,

do I bring flowers? Nick definitely was not bringing flowers. I did not bring your flowers. I loved the airport pickup scene. It was... It was cute. Very cute. Very relatable.

And she was very giddy. Wasn't it very interesting the Jordan part of after they returned from the villa and Jordan being like, yeah, like I told Jesse and then being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, why did you like break the brocode? That was like very backwards to me. I was like, wait, suddenly he's doing kind of the right thing, but now you guys are mad that he's doing that. Guys, it was all, again, this is another TV show you went on. Okay? Vanderpump Villa.

Cameras. It's going to come out. out. So like, do you want it to come out on this show that you're on to make you a little bit bigger? Or do you want it to come out on another show? But like, why would you want like your legacy to be like, oh, I protect my men friends when they do things wrong and I lie to my wife. So weird. It's fucking weird. So weird. Chase had a line where he was like, don't, if you want to keep anything wrapped up, don't tell this guy because he owes everything to his girl to like. And I was like, whoa, this is like a bit too much. I turned on Jacob a little bit. Yeah, it was even Macy's guy, Jacob, right? It's supposed to be like the shining star when he got on him. He's like, I'm not saying anything. And it's just like, failing.

No. You are married. You can tell your wife, like, what happened. You're supposed to. If Danny didn't tell me shit that I saw it on the show a year later, I'd be like, what the fuck? He's trying to do the right thing, too. Let him try to do something, right? Don't, like, keep him in this bubble of now the guys want him to be toxic.

Chase, I'm like, Chase, you're trying to make a TV show. I'm also definitely struggling with the addition of Chase and Mason. Like, I get Mason's dating Layla. That makes sense. Miranda's ex-husband. Like why, you know? You guys know I'm kind of a chase then? I'm sorry.

I just don't. I don't know what he brings to the show. I can't explain it. But even like his like sit down with them and it's just like Jacob, like, why are you trying to force your wife? Like it's a weird dynamic that like, oh, I went away with this guy for a week. But for years, if not for a year, he's making podcast, making comments, talking shit about your wife and her friends.

And then you go on one vacation with the guy and you're like, just come sit down with him because it's going to really make it easier for me to make friends. Make friends. you've been friends with the same group for years. It's not my favorite storyline. And obviously they're doing a lot of like cross show. And it's just giving like, you know, let's take the husbands to cheat island. Yeah.

I don't know. It's weird. And then they, what did they say at Vanderpump that they brought in the cast from another show of girls to play truth or dare with them? And I'm just like, this is a weird setup. Like all of these men minus, I guess, Chase and Dakota. and are in relationships are married with children. Like,

weird thing. Kind of a weird thing to do. The younger brother or whatever and then being, or that's dating Layla, that it was like he was being pushed by Chase or somebody to like make out with someone.

And it's just kind of like, and then not answering Layla's text messages. And I'm just like, this is just giving shitty men across the board. And there's also just like, man, last time I went to Vanderbond Villa, there was this whole situation

that we never really got any real answers on that clearly, affected how things were... We got a lawsuit out of it. I just want to move on. I'm going to tell you from that whole situation. I don't want to be in a room with somebody that Connor made out with in high school. And you know what I'm not going to do?

Fly overseas to be in a villa with somebody that my wife had an emotional affair with. But it's a good opportunity for Dad Talk. Like that's just so crazy. It's okay. Here's what pisses me off about this. Is that these guys all had so many opinions about their wives going to do things for mom talk. Literally.

And as soon as they get one goddamn brand deal, oh, all of the sudden, we gotta go to Venipa Villa for Dad Talk. We gotta do, oh, Marciana's there. Well, like, it's, you know. He's actually a good guy. And actually, he's not that bad. He actually is fucking cool. Like, I don't know. What did you guys think of them panning to Demi's confessional

and she's not there? They need to stop. Like, do it once. The one time was funny in the second time. I'm like, okay, well, maybe. And then the third and fourth and fifth and sixth. I'm like, we get it. She's not going to do an interview. My understanding is that she's on season four Just because again They film so fast

That they just have scenes with her They have to use Yeah I was like didn't we see that They were trying to like limit the amount of scenes That they aired of her But she is integral to some of the storyline That's what I'm saying I don't think she's the

Inactive cast-term Long-term Well you know All right well we will unpack Two more episodes on Thursday We also have the Royal Housewives of Beverly Hills which, as we say, the beginning of this episode, also giving me nothing.

Yeah, it's certainly a show that's airing. And I'm enjoying watching it, but I just don't know what to say. No, no, I love watching it for the record. It, like, is kind of, it's a very, like, cool-down show for me right now. Like, it's a chill watch that doesn't take a lot of brainpower. I'm going to put this on while we cook supper. Yeah, like, I clean. I deep clean my room while watching Beverly Hills yesterday,

and I gained every single amount of information. You did eat up, Jennifer Tilly being stuck in the elevator. with a mask on. Yes, I did. Oh, did I was giving you. It's goofy. It's really it's fun. I did.

For the record, I love it. There's just not much drama to report. Of a 45-minute episode, unfortunately. Kathy Hilton saying know your place in the room. That was amazing. We know that we now get these very clippable, like, moments from Kathy. It's always been Kathy's M-O-Doh, though. Like, who's hunky-dory?

Who's hunky-dory? You need her in the midst of like these big things or to say something. No, I know, but I'm no longer. being like, I can't believe it. I don't know. I just, what, the Kathy Hilton Amanda read the room and know your place thing once, does beg the question. Took her out.

Took her out. That's a diabolical read. And I wonder what everyone, what the most diabolically true read everyone has gotten is. I appreciate it because I was like, there's Kathy. Like, you know what I mean? The woman that terrifies her sister, that's the Kathy I kind of want

to see versus the like, oh my God, is this guy up or down? Sierra, anybody remember like three seasons ago, reunion when Kathy was like, you're the meanest person in Hollywood. You're just saying this because your contract's up. You bullied all these people off the show. Like this is the Kathy where she just says things straight up. And you're like, and everybody goes silent.

I mean, because Kathy is, well, she's Kathy Hilton. And I think in Amanda's eyes, Derreet's an easy target. Yeah. Maybe. DeReed is going through a lot right now. Why are we pretending that Erica didn't tell Kyle about her boyfriend? Like, why is that still? Like we had cameras pan to Kyle when Eric is like, well, no one.

I told no one about that. And Kyle's like, you know. I kind of thought about for Kyle too. And she tried to like, so like, what are you looking for? And then I like immediately turned on her of like, I don't need you to be my therapist. I mean, Amanda's writing a book. And she's writing it right now. She is writing that book.

She said, hi guys. I woke up and I wrote the intro. And then she takes her little computer out to go sit with, I'm writing my book. The world's going to see. book. I'm writing my book. And she said, Doreet, you are traumatizing me right now and I'm making that trauma in dart. And I will be writing my book. Why

couldn't they wipe that, get that leaf off of Kyle's ass? Oh my God. It fell off like right as she will almost go. They couldn't be like, guys, let's do that again. Cowell walk away again. Come back and say you had a leaf on your hair. I did not even see that well. No, it's like in her

ass crack. It was, yeah. It was jarring. I'm sorry. I'm looking at their hearts. Well, it was from the back. So you could miss it. I'm looking at the leaves in their butts in their hearts. So we,

Southern hospitality, people seem to be enjoying it. Oh my God. People said it's episode two and it's already giving so much. It's, this show is bonkerina. The cast is all in.

I do know that from the way. We've met a few of them. They are like the old van der pump. I think a lot of people are comparing that. Where like the new van der pump, I'm not sure if we're totally buying the authenticity of.

of its cast, but it's early. Yeah. But this, the cast of Southern Hospitality, you're in a very almost grateful way as fans. You're like, I don't think that's in your best interest, but thank you for doing that on TV. You know, like they're really... I mean, to watch, currently we have Joe Bradley,

who's literally been, instead of doing his job for the past year, has just been on tour with Maddie Reese, asking Leva, can I have a bigger responsibility and can you invest in my business? And Leva's like, ah, what is this business that you see? speak gum. Mary and Sierra,

did you keep that Joe Bradley was in that friend group chat? So the group chat that we saw the reunion of last season pop off with Maddie being like, wait,

I don't know what's going on because they faked her boyfriend cheating on her. Yes, yes. They basically brought up because it was Mia and Emmy and Emmy was like, Mia was like, Mia was

I swear I was not, or Maddie said it, whoever. Yeah. Mia was like, I was not in that group chat. Producers made her pull it up. She's in the group chat. They showed other people.

Joe Bradley's in that. Yeah. You know how many group chats I don't realize I'm a part of so that I can. or that I have on mute. You can't control. Joe's actively commenting or not commenting.

He's actively texting in this group chat. So it's like nobody, and I don't know, maybe Maddie and Joe have discussed this off camera, but like nobody has brought up that part of the storyline. Right. Well, it's like, I think what really is happening on Southern Hospitality right now is you really see how much you can get hurt by your friends when they do shitty things because you have, I think the TJ thing with Maddie is really a bummer because you can tell they really care about each other.

I will say that that I'm like, this is like one of the crazier storylines because it really is like she's told that her boyfriend cheated on her. She broke up with her boyfriend on one of the seasons. She thought that she was going to come up with him. Yeah, she thought she's going to marry him. And then she's with Joe Bradley, who she's not ready to get married with. And especially if there is an element of Joe being a part of that group chat. And she's saying that she's in intensive therapy because she doesn't know what's real and what's not anymore. And I'm like, I think that that's a very interesting plight because it's like even her being like, I've been DJing on.

tour this whole time, but I'm coming back to my home, my safe spot to film Southern Hospitality. I'm like, I don't understand the parallel of what is your reality. And I don't think she does either. Because TJ's saying I was never friends with Maddie. Yeah. And then she's like, I have an entire PowerPoint presentation that I made showing you that we are in fact friends. Her sober was it, uh, her sponsor. Oh my God. Her mask sponsor, Julia. Shout out to Maddie's mask sponsor Julia. No. They were like, um. She's like, maybe keep that. Keep the power post presentation to yourself. Also, can we talk about Justin?

New cast member Justin, who's literally just horny. I knew you would be. My doppel ganger, Justin. Yeah. My doppel ganger. His whole thing, he's like, I might be gay, but like, I'm really, 30% gay. And then T.J. got him a dick and balls decanter. Okay.

And then it was like, he's into me. He's got a crush on Mia, but then the night before made out with T.J. And Michael's. And Michaels. Yeah. I'm like, give me this. You know what I really like Molly? Something about Molly, I just love Molly. I think she's a bad bitch.

I think she literally is just kind of like she's able to deal with confrontation. And I'm like, if Michaels, for example, was screaming at my face being like, you can't be here. Get out. And I would probably. By the way, Michael saw him at BravoCon tall. Gorgeous man. Gorgeous. He's so.

He's a giant. He's tall. He has a great. He has a great energy. And imagine that hovering over you telling you to get the fuck out of his establishment. And then Michael's telling like, like, oh, yeah. So you made up with Molly and being like, I don't remember that. But sure.

But yeah, I mean, you know, sober? Yeah. I'm also so, what I find really interesting is Maddie Reese, like, the way she's forgiving Brad and Mia, but not T.J. Well, T.J also didn't have a conversation with her. And now he's like denouncing their friendship. Yeah, that is true. TJ is really go full scorched earth.

And Brad and Mia did apologize. Do we think the hot dog was actually named to like throw a dig at Maddie? or do you think TJ actually just did it? What was the hot dog called? The cheater or something like that? The cheater weiner or whatever. It was something like that. But yeah, that's why she got heated in that one episode and threw me out on the ground.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. I don't think so. I just think it's probably like an ongoing storyline of your show. It makes sense to like name a hot dog after it. But the one thing I do want to talk about though is Emmy and Will. Will is not on the show. He didn't come back after the mental health, whatever. And guess what?

I'm fine with that. I'm totally. Will. He wants to be a lawyer. But it's Emmy that I'm having the issue with right now because it's kind of like, I feel like the show's positioning it is like, do you believe TJ and Bradley or do you believe Emmy? And then hearing that Emmy was on the phone saying that like Bradley makes her feel unsafe, saying that like, oh, I really got them. I kept crying and kept over emphasizing the mental health so that they wouldn't focus on Will. And it's just like, it's giving very calculated. In actuality, I think you are the cause of most of these issues. That is my biggest issue with Emmy is she has never been like, you know what? I fucked up. And then the second that she gets in the hot seat, what does she start doing? Hyperventilating. Yeah.

And it's like, girl, use your words. I think we need to see how more of the season unfolds because I think, and to see how Emmy navigates it. Because unfortunately, to your point, I think she brought it into a conversation that involves race. So, like, now we have to see where she goes. Hey, a lot of good TV out there. We're super grateful for all the great content and super grateful for all of you listening to our show. That'll do it for us today.

Thank you to our guest, Vennel, Libby, and Justin, all from age of attraction. We hope you guys enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. We are back on Thursday with another wild and wacky episode of reality recap. Also, don't forget if you haven't checked out the Love is Blind going deeper episode that we dropped last Friday with Amber and Brittany, be sure to check that out as well. Bye-bye.