The Viall Files - E1096 - Age of Attraction w/ Jorge & John, Taylor Frankie Paul, Summer House, and Existential Crises

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Starting point is 00:01:41 what's going on everybody Jack just come on in hi Jack Jack one of our very talented editors here is bringing in a coffee run look at that little BTS here at the file files Jack wave to everybody

Starting point is 00:01:57 yeah Jack wave to everybody oh my God you know when you take a sip of a coffee and you're just like wow that's good yeah I didn't even need you to finish the sentence you know exactly what I was going to say Yeah, and it is good. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:10 The cloud falling out this morning. Well, what is going on, everybody? What is going on, everybody? We are joined by... Joined by a full household of wonderful ladies. Wow. As it should be. Actually, Nick, I think you can go home.

Starting point is 00:02:27 The women energy matter of back is palpable. They're even to a Natalie's stomach. Yeah. Wow. There's a lot of women even here. And I have all of their eggs in my stomach as well. Isn't that crazy? Lots of estrogen.

Starting point is 00:02:40 I'm feeling so happy. I love it. Surrounded by the positive energy. I'm not feeling light, but I am. You do look it. I had a breakdown last night. We're getting into occasional life. You know, it's a lot.

Starting point is 00:02:55 Yeah. You know, you just like blink and then you're just, you got this massive belly. You can't really do much. I'm like already waddling. I'm like, this feels too early for that. And I just started crying last night. And I was like, I just feel so big. And, like, Rivers being like, Mama run.

Starting point is 00:03:13 Mama dance. Mama jump. And I'm like, Mama can't because the baby will fall out of me. I'm sorry. Not fall out of me. It will. Hopefully. And hopefully they do.

Starting point is 00:03:25 Bought out of me. When the time is right. There's not a lot of push. Yeah. Now the one perk, though, is that now that I'm so large, I can rest Louis right on top. Oh. Yeah. Helps with the weight distribution.

Starting point is 00:03:40 Interesting. Louie doesn't like go top rope and like jump on you like river does with Natalie. Top rope? Top rope. Like a wrestling reference. You know they go out. I don't understand the wrestling reference. It makes sense now.

Starting point is 00:03:55 Like once you said it's a wrestling reference, I'm like, oh yeah, on top of the rope. Okay. I mean, yeah. He was like hitting me with a bat yesterday. Love. Boy mom. I did send my Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich on my stomach yesterday. Oh, yeah, I saw that as a table.

Starting point is 00:04:10 That's really cool. Do you get a picture of that? I did. Good. I feel like that's the perks. I did. Your book? Exactly.

Starting point is 00:04:18 Not a table. He doesn't watch my stories, guys. He does not watch my Instagram stories. I try to be off-line. I don't know. You don't want to know what your wife is posting? You've been posting a lot of art. So you haven't done.

Starting point is 00:04:32 I don't have my art happening. It kind of impressive. But he's posting from a place of earnestness, so it's okay. Yeah, I mean. Yeah. No, you have like your art. It calms me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:43 Yeah. And I hope if I can just calm one other person in the world, I have done my job. There you go. It's kind of intricate. The art I'm like with the chalk. Yes. How long did that take? Anywhere from like 10 to 30 minutes.

Starting point is 00:05:00 Okay. Per square? Per square? Yeah. River is not allowed to help. She honestly is not even allowed to be outside. I'm drawing between the dogs and her walking over it. You know, it's fine.

Starting point is 00:05:16 So people just don't appreciate art. Chalk is a very forgiving medium. Medium. How many tiles do you have left? We're running out. But I will just pressure wash it. It's going to hose it down and start over. That's the nice thing.

Starting point is 00:05:30 It's like it's kind of pretty easy to do. You know, there's not a lot of. setup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, painting. I got it's such a process. Right. But what if you make one that you really love and then you can't keep it?

Starting point is 00:05:42 You've got to take the tile out and put it in the garage, of course. Do it again. Yeah, like take a nice picture of it. Enough to do it again, Leah. It's the journey. Any art that I made that was good enough was an accident. So I like, you have to come by. Are you keeping like every little thing that Louis draws on?

Starting point is 00:06:02 So now that he's in school, he's. comes back with a lot of projects. And I actually was wondering, like, what to do? A lot of them, I'm just like, what, this is big. And I don't know what to do with it. Yikes. Don't have the room for this. It's all on my dining room.

Starting point is 00:06:14 My mom sent me the other day. I think, you know, when I draw, my mom gets a little giddy, reminds her. But it was like a Father's Day card that I made of my dad. And it was like a stick figure of me and my den. It says, dear dad. You just drew a stick figure? I hadn't really. Just lock your screen, honey.

Starting point is 00:06:34 Just lock the screen. Lock the screen. Okay, sorry. You are a great dad. You are a good dad. Thank you for all the good things you have done. I hope you have a nice father's day. You are the greatest dad in the world.

Starting point is 00:06:49 Love Nick. And it was just, here's dad. Here's me. And then there's a bubble. You're the greatest. And apparently I have sunglasses on. And my dad has a mustache. Wow.

Starting point is 00:07:01 It's actually so sweet. She kept that. Yeah. All those years. It is hard to. Do you have like a giant box of river stuff? Well, she's not in school. So any crafts must be done with someone involved, you know, which sometimes is a bit of a mess headache in our house.

Starting point is 00:07:24 But there are, we have a few. My mom, when my mom was in town, she like did her handprints. Like that stuff's cute. Now that it's Easter, we'll do her footprints. make them into carrots, you know, like, you. We try to be cute. Today she's painting.

Starting point is 00:07:38 I like those. They're like ceramic. They're like the little paint kit. So like ceramic things and it comes with the little paint. It comes with the paint brush and you just like give, I will like buy. I bought, I found one at home goods the other day. Bought that for her. That'll keep her busy for like at home color me mine.

Starting point is 00:07:53 Oh my God. Yeah. Girl mom. That'll keep her busy. I love that for you. The long, the long, um, coloring. the huge coloring papers

Starting point is 00:08:05 that like stick on a table oh yeah those are like a big fan in our house with those because they don't move well yeah and because they cover

Starting point is 00:08:15 everything she shouldn't be coloring on you know but anyways also don't forget Vile Files Plus is ad free so if you want to listen to all your favorite VAL Files episodes at free

Starting point is 00:08:24 you get to do that now on Vile Files Plus plus get some amazing content when we dive deep into your favorite reality recap episodes like Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and The Bachelorette and Age of Attraction, get some behind the scenes, and we really get into the nitty-gritty on some of your favorite shows

Starting point is 00:08:40 and all the things going on in those universes, as well as your pop extra, all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to talk about, like Mary wants to talk about Club Chalame. Retiring, it's really important. Tune in top pop for sure for a state of the union. Also, a lot of interesting things going on in the ecosystem. Jake Shane is under fire. I'm definitely team Jake Shane here,

Starting point is 00:09:03 but like the responsibility of podcasters, you know, doing red carpets and interviewing celebrities and how your, you know, more typical legacy entertainment journalists feel a certain way about it and who's right, who's wrong. I have a lot to say about that topic

Starting point is 00:09:18 and we'll certainly dive into that on pop extra this week and maybe a little bit next week on reality recap, but certainly get it first. I'm Vile Files Plus. Also, don't forget, Netflix is a joke

Starting point is 00:09:28 is coming up May 4th, and we are with with the new cast of Temptation Island. I know you don't know them yet because the next episode hasn't come out yet, but remember, it is a great show.

Starting point is 00:09:37 That's super messy, a lot of fun, and we'll be with that cast on May 4th in L.A. It's going to be a live show. It'll be a lot of fun. So if you're looking for something to do and have a fun night out,

Starting point is 00:09:47 we are super excited to be with the next cast of Temptation Island. Get tickets now. Go to our link in the show description, or Vialfiles.com. Well, we do have a great episode lined up for you today. we have from the great hit show Age of Attraction.

Starting point is 00:10:03 Jorge and John are with us to talk about their journeys we will unpack. There's a new batch of episodes out on Netflix now, episodes six and seven. What? What was that? Six and seven. Yeah. Let's not be the out of touch parents because I was at the playground with River, as I often do to end my day. and I overheard a couple of kids talking to some other kids

Starting point is 00:10:31 about how like not cool 6-7 is anymore. I was told that yeah, it's Unken Chop because older people are doing it. But you know what? As someone who's having a crisis because I'm about to turn 25, I'm claiming it. I'm taking it all the young. When is your 25th birthday? Monday?

Starting point is 00:10:48 Worst birthday of my life. Cool. So you have so much to look forward to. Wait, Nick, what happened? Yeah, what happened? that his life was not going in the direction that he had planned. Quarter life crisis. Yeah, I hope your birthday is better than mine.

Starting point is 00:11:03 And I like to think your life is a lot more exciting than mine was. But at the time I turned 25, I was in the middle of one of the many breakups I was going through with my first girlfriend. I was an accountant at a job I hated. Uh-huh. I was, I did not drive a BMW. Yeah. Which when I was 18, I was like. At 25, I'm going to drive.

Starting point is 00:11:26 Like, I'm going to have a wife and some kids and a BMW. Yeah. And that will be the definition of success. And I had no wife. No friends. No. Oh, damn. Okay.

Starting point is 00:11:38 Calm down. And I just was like, I'm 25. And I was like, I'm not doing anything that I thought I would. I have no prospects. I feel like you're on a better track than that. I'm not doing anything I enjoy. Thanks, guys. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:52 It's got to be pretty good. Yeah. Your early 20s, you're trying to. live up to the expectations you set for yourself as a teenager, which is bizarre when you think about it. But that is what we do. And like life comes at you fast. And 25 seems such like a milestone when you're younger. And then you hit it so quickly. And you're like, huh? Just like my mom had like a kid. Yeah. No. It's just like. And I am like off. I got married and had a kid at my 25th. Your mom had a kid and you're still dealing with the Sunday scarries. You know? It's like. Yeah. Yeah. Like. I got. I got.

Starting point is 00:12:26 I get pregnant with River at 24. Wow. Isn't I crazy? That is crazy. Yeah. And I'm like, do I, can my mom buy me a straightener for my birthday? Like, do I think that'll be like a good thing for her to get me for my birthday? Like, that's where I'm at my now.

Starting point is 00:12:39 And so I'm like, okay, 25. It's a tough birthday sometimes. It's like some of my friends are getting married. Other ones are like, okay, I'm going to go to grad school. So it's like there's a lot of different things happening. Totally. You know. It's a false measuring stick that really creates a lot of anxiety.

Starting point is 00:12:54 But happy birthday, Mary. Thanks. It's not my birthday yet. I'm still a young whippersnapper of 24. I'm not young. I'm not unc yet. 25 was also the first birthday where like I felt my, you know, it was like, I don't want to tell people I'm 20. Like it was like, yeah, it was like.

Starting point is 00:13:12 I'm just like, I'm almost dead. He's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I should be taken out. It's over to marry. Have you heard the theory about your birthday though or like your age is that you're actually turning the age you've been all year on your birthday? not you're turning 20 years. Yeah, because you're in your 25th year.

Starting point is 00:13:29 Like, I'll be entering, my grandpa always used to say that you're like entering like your 26th year when you turn 25. You know what I saw too? Which is also how health insurance companies feel. Okay, for sure. You know what I saw to? That was interesting. And I was actually thinking about this. I was like, how is it that Louis was born in 2024 and now it's 2006?

Starting point is 00:13:50 So he's been alive for through like three years. but he's not even two. Math is hard. Yeah. That just sent me through a spiral. I'll tell you that much. Right? That makes no sense.

Starting point is 00:14:03 He's seen 2024, 2025, and now 2026, and he's not even two. Yeah, but not all of 2026. Well, based on that information, and I don't know when his birthday is, I'm guessing he was bored at the end of a year. No. July.

Starting point is 00:14:18 So middle of a year. We're in the beginning, beginning-ish of another year. I think it's because of a, exactly what Mary said because you're like, you basically don't count. Guys, we're giving ourselves away that we didn't do well in math. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:32 We're an entertainment. We've never been a seat. We're in entertainment. We're actually talking about us yesterday. This is your confession. So good at like, in like our AP Latin Lang classes and we could bullshit anything. And then I was like, yeah, no, one time I literally cried during a pre-calk test. I believe that.

Starting point is 00:14:48 Nally famously wrote, I'm sorry. I wrote that on my, on my AP stat exam. I wrote, I'm sorry on one page. I love that. Every single math test in college. It's real as fun. I'm sorry. And with a sad face, I would add.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Yeah, it's like, listen. She's like, this one definitely at least give me a D. They're not going to fail me. And sometimes she'd write back say, it's okay. We're not all like numerically gifted. Right. Yeah. Well, we do have that great episode lined up for you today.

Starting point is 00:15:18 Age of Attraction, Jorge and John. We also have the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives episodes that get into. Well, speaking of numbers, we have age of attraction, Jorge and John with us today. And we'll get into Jorge's side of the Vanel and Jorge. Discussion. Disagreement where they're not seeing eye to eye. And so we'll get some more information on that. Obviously, a lot of conversations are going on in the internet regarding secret lives of Mormon wives and the upcoming season of the Bachelorette. sending around our Bachelorette, Taylor, Frankie, Paul. it's obviously overwhelming the news and the headlines. You know, it's very difficult to talk about, and I don't think we have the right things to say right now. Obviously, these are very serious allegations

Starting point is 00:16:06 in a very sensitive topic. Out of respect for those involved, we're just not going to comment on the details of this story regarding Taylor in Dakota. So, but, you know, it seems, it does seem like the Batch Rat is going to continue to air and they are moving forward, and we have the secret lives of Mormon wives.

Starting point is 00:16:27 So we are going to continue to try to talk about these shows as best we can, knowing that there's a lot of sensitivity around these very serious topics, and we'll do our best. But, you know, obviously it's, you know, we're just thinking about all those involved because it's, as Taylor said,

Starting point is 00:16:46 a very heavy and serious situation, and our hearts just go out to all these people. You know how chloroful is responsible for how plants harness the power, of the sun. Now you can enjoy a gentle but powerful daily detox with chlorophyll's stick packs from nature's sunshine. They are a convenient on the go way to support your gut health with a gentle daily detox to help your body feel light and balance. It's easy to mix in a simple way to incorporate a daily detox to feel lighter, more energized, and more regular. Plus it comes in refreshing

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Starting point is 00:20:49 How does it feel you got got got by AI? So I'm confused. That photo that you were like, I just saw this, a photo of them. It was like such a clear photo of it. I didn't say it definitely wasn't AI. You pulled up the picture and you were like, look, is them at the altar? Priests that's marrying them. That's how cool.

Starting point is 00:21:05 And I was like, I don't know. I feel like maybe that's not real. I don't remember being like this is definitely real. I just remember being like, oh. You did say I saw the photos this morning. They were at the altar. Yeah. And I, yes.

Starting point is 00:21:17 And it was still from the movie. The same way you thought Ryan Gosling had a cannon of an arm. Which he does. Wait, it was real? That one hasn't been proven. Oh, well, here's the thing. Both Ryan Gosling and Zendaya and Tom Holland did are all multi-talented. So it's like easy to be confused by AI versions of them being even more talented

Starting point is 00:21:36 and amazing because you already think that. It's honestly hard to believe anything. Anything. I mean, everything I see. I'm like, is it AI? I don't know. I don't know. Oh, wait.

Starting point is 00:21:48 Didn't, oh, Matthew McConaughey recently purchased the rights to his voice. Yeah, his voice. And I think also his image. So that, like, if they wanted to use AI or something, it's something. Terrifying world we live in that you may one day have to purchase the rights to yourself. But he is a, he's like a pioneer in the sense that he's like telling all his peers and industry people to do this. There's no like, there's no playbook or there's no like industry people saying, all right, before we. embrace AI.

Starting point is 00:22:17 Let's make sure we protect all of our people. It's like if you're smart enough like Matthew McConaughey, you can do it. But if you're someone else who's like maybe an up-and-comber, doesn't have a full team, doesn't have the awareness to do that. I just saw a commercial maybe yesterday, actually. Connor and I were watching something and it had commercials. And I can't remember what the product was, but the whole thing was Jurassic Park. And it was the first Jurassic Park with Laura Dern and lead male actor. That's the dinosaur bones.

Starting point is 00:22:47 Okay, that guy. So they did a whole commercial in AI and like bad AI. Like when the guy's face turns, it like morphs into like kind of like something else a little bit. Like it's just like it's bad AI. Laura Dern's faces looking wonky. And it's just like they didn't even have like the most like intense up to date AI and they still put this fucking commercial out. If we're going to talk AI because this is crazy, the guy that the CEO of Chat GPT or whatever. Open AI. He was doing some kind of like business conference. And it's my like I don't like you know,

Starting point is 00:23:21 as a business owner, I, you know, you guys know, like I think we should look into embracing AI. You know, I think there's elements of like I, you know, to me, AI is a tool like anything else. And tools are only as good as how you use the tools, right? Like, you know, if you use a screwdriver to hammer and a nail, might not be that effective. You know what I'm saying? And like AI, If you're using AI to think for you, to do your homework, to be like, hey, write me an essay on like the American Revolution, you're not going to learn. You're not going to develop skills. If you use AI to say, all right, you have to come up with the interesting questions. You have to have it help you in things like that. But what seems to be happening now is like, especially kids, we're all just kind of, we're not learning. We're getting lazier. We're getting dumber. We're just having AI do all this work for us. That's not a tool that is like watering down our own intelligence. Anyways, the, the C. of Open AI was giving some conference and he said and he got a lot of credit like this is the only thing I've ever seen the entire internet rally behind an agreement which is like he sees knowledge as a utility and what he meant by that is like he sees open AI or other AI companies charging for

Starting point is 00:24:28 information like like like so so first you know open AI was open source it's free it's it's a it's a public service you know we're all going to put it out there for all of us to use and so right we're all using it and most of it aren't using it as a tool, a tool to like not help, not to do our work for us, but to help us do some of the busy work faster so we can be more creative. It will not come up with cool ideas for us. Like that's not what AI does. Like it's according to our Ben Affleck, you know, he talked about how AI just kind of like keeps you in the mean. But like they're now going to dumb us down. They're going to make us all stupid. Yeah. And then when we're all stupid, they're going to be like now, pay for the $490.

Starting point is 00:25:10 You're going to get us addicted. No, I believe it. It's terrifying. You know, well, it's also, I'm kind of of the belief with AI that it's like, I think that if, have you guys seen the Lorax, the movie version of the Lorax? I'm familiar with it. Well, basically, in the movie version of the Lorax, they make everyone pay for air. And it's kind of, I believe, if I'm wrong, clown me, whatever.

Starting point is 00:25:30 I have a point. I do think with AI and thinking about Matthew McConaughey, it's like, it should be the opposite. Matthew McConae should not have to buy back the rights to his voice and his identity from AI. AI should have to purchase those rights from the human being. And it's all reversed. And it's basically there's this assumption that once technology exists, we immediately become indebted to that technology instead of that technology being indebted to us as the people that created it. And I just feel like there's this weird like dynamic going on that we just have to like,

Starting point is 00:26:00 it's here. Let's just do it. And it's like, yeah, I think it's a tool, but tools are very, very dangerous to a lot of people because you cannot trust humanity. to make good decisions with those tools. Famously, humanity makes pretty bad decisions with tools that they're given. The head of the companies will protect us and charge us a utility for knowledge and information. But it also reminds me of just like even with like when streaming services came out, right? And it was like this like ingenious idea of like, oh my God, okay, I pay $7.99 and I have access to all of this commercial free. Like why do I even need cable?

Starting point is 00:26:34 So you start canceling your cable subscription. You're like, they're only $5.99. $7.99. I'm paying way less for all these streaming services than I'm paying for cable. Next thing you know. Now it's like add tier. Next thing you know. Now you have to pay for the premium. Premium's $30. But hey, you might get a bundle with it. And it's just like yet again, like something that you relied on thinking that it was giving you convenience is now become a burden where it's like it probably would be cheaper to have cable nowadays than all premium services. It's the illusion of choice and the illusion of free will. Thank you. Do you remember how great it was on a Saturday late afternoon to go into Blockbuster? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I used to go to Blockbuster. And it's just like finding a movie and like, was it there?

Starting point is 00:27:13 Was it not there? Then you'd go to the counter, be like, did anyone return? You got mail. Yeah, I'll take it. You know, it's just like that was a whole thing. That was like people made core memories doing that stuff. Have you guys ever seen the holiday? Yes.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Oh my God. You know when Jack Black and Kate wins, it's one of the most romantic scenes I've ever seen in my entire life. It's like just the two of them in that Blockbuster and he's talking about scores. they're just having this moment and then Dustin Hoffman's there. But like it's just there's there's a tangible element to so much stuff and so much connection. Like when you find those things and places like that like a blockbuster, like those like communal spaces like a movie theater. Yeah like what did you grab? Yeah like are so important.

Starting point is 00:27:55 Like what kind of candy do you like and those things that like these like streamers and like all of this thing being immediate and giving you this immediate access like takes away that space for the connection with the people that you love. Anyway, hug your friends. Love your family. Sorry. Again, I'm almost turning 25. She's sentimental. My frontal lobe is forming. In a world where we need wholesome, quality television that doesn't feel toxic or too heavy.

Starting point is 00:28:22 Thank God we have age of attraction. Thank God. It really is kind of like a breath. Like, I didn't expect it to be so like light and fulfilling. Well, it's a titillating topic of age differences that it's a, that a, that a, You know, it's interesting to a lot of people. But I said this when the show was about to come out. But, like, I love, obviously I love being a part of the show.

Starting point is 00:28:45 But I love that we're having these interesting scenes that are relatable. There's a heaviness to them a little bit. But it's not so much like there's not like a good person or a bad person. There's no hero and villain. There's like, you know, I kind of understand this point. I kind of understand that point. Well, we did covering episodes six and seven. They dropped last night.

Starting point is 00:29:06 and we're meeting families. I love meet the family situation. It's always so good. It's always like a stakes baby. Wake up. I didn't know who was coming. So I do like the aspect of like some of it was like the friends. Fyfer being like, oh my God, it's my parents and I have never seen them together in like 10 years.

Starting point is 00:29:24 And like so cute, but so interesting. Like you know what I mean? It makes that whole like meeting Derek so much more interesting because you're like watching Fyfer and like how is she handling everything. And the fact that they were like, oh my God, she's so comfortable. But anyways, no, it's so cute. And then, like, some of them have their kids, the Teresa and John of it all. It's also a reminder, which I love introducing the family, specifically on age of attraction, but just kind of whether it's The Bachelor and it's hometowns or whatever, is that, like, it really, it should remind the audience that these people truly are in a bubble, right?

Starting point is 00:29:56 And just like in the real world where we fall in love and, like, we just kind of isolate and we kind of, like, go off to Never, Neverland with the person we're dating and we don't, we kind of disappear. and we fall in love, right? And we kind of like, and maybe we're dating someone, we're like, I don't know if this is going to work out. You know, I don't know what my friends are going to think,

Starting point is 00:30:13 but we just kind of do it anyways. And then at some point, we have to have those conversations with our friends and family. And then there's this kind of like reminder of like, the real world, right? And so when you're seeing Teresa have a bit of a meltdown, she clearly has this connection with John.

Starting point is 00:30:28 Yeah. These, there's real feelings. And up into this point, I think that Teresa is, has been kind of when these kind of negative thoughts come in or these fears or concerns up into this point, she's been like, I don't need to worry about that right now. I'm just going to push that away, you know, and that's such a relatable normal feeling when we are falling for someone where

Starting point is 00:30:48 we're like, we're not sure what our friends or family are going to think about it. And now with these shows, we hit them with the, well, whether you're ready or not, we're going to do this. And you see this kind of like with Teresa, this holy shit, the make believes over, you know, the pretend world is over and now I have to start thinking about what is this relationship with John look like outside of this bubble if I choose to continue to be in it. And it's pretty fascinating. Are they the biggest age gap where the woman is older than the man? Are they the biggest?

Starting point is 00:31:21 Yeah, 27 years. I find them so interesting because I feel like her heart, it's basically her heart is telling her one thing and then her mind is saying something else. And I kind of get it. Like I can see that there's something so special there, but watching them, it almost feels like Romeo and Juliet, like a love that you know is probably not realistic. Yeah. I asked John about this in the upcoming interview, but I thought it was really interesting. They talked to John after the whole, he met his kids, and he was frustrated because he felt like Teresa didn't, like, gas up their relationship a lot.

Starting point is 00:31:54 And he felt like, oh, she was more focused on our insecurities and she didn't like talk about our connection. and yet John left. And then Teresa's kids were like, you're clearly happy, you look so great. And it was like, I thought it was this interesting that John made an assumption of what he thought Teresa should say and what it meant for his kids and didn't trust Teresa that she obviously understood her kids

Starting point is 00:32:20 in what they needed. And they needed in that relationship. And her kids responded exactly how John wanted her to respond, which is to see that connection. And they clearly did. Yet John had a completely different interpretation. Meanwhile, John's mom and sister are like kind of, I mean, more judging.

Starting point is 00:32:39 Yeah, definitely not giving. I mean, sister's like, clearly she's older. And I understood their pact of being like, hey, let's not, like, if you're going to go in there and be like, hey, she has three kids, like, that's going to give them an idea of my, like, let's just leave all of that. Let's let them get to know me. We don't, we can bring all that information later. they went in with that pact and then he's like, yeah, she's got kids. Yeah, she's 54.

Starting point is 00:33:03 Yeah, and then they're like, well, that's just so weird that she didn't tell us. And it's like, well, wait a second. Like, yeah. They went in there together with that plan. Like, I don't think... He's showing his age. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:15 He's showing his age. He's getting around his family being like, he, he ha ha. Let me tell you guys what's up. And what's really interesting, especially, again, we talked about this on Tuesday. When you have like the age difference an older person and a younger person.

Starting point is 00:33:29 Again, I think the older person is always going to have that concern that the younger person has the life experience to handle the baggage we bring into this relationship, whatever that, you know. And you see that with John and Teresa, you know, her kind of constantly questioning him. It's interesting from John because up into this point, John's been kind of Teresa's rock. Hey, I'm not concerned. I'm not worried. We have a strong connection, which I think is, you know, it's great to hear him say that.

Starting point is 00:33:57 But there's a part of me that feels like he's not really listening to her concerns and not really understanding what she's trying to articulate to him of like what life is going to be out in the real world. And it will be interesting if they do decide to move on into the real world what will change from John's perspective. Because at some point, like they are going to have to deal with their age difference. Like we had to deal with that. You know, it comes up and you can't always just be like, whatever, it doesn't. matter, it doesn't matter. Sometimes you have to just acknowledge that the age difference does matter and that it does, you will have to deal with it in different ways than you would a relationship that doesn't. And I'm curious how those two would navigate it if they decide to stay together.

Starting point is 00:34:44 You know who else showed their age? Chris. Chris with his mommy at the table. Yeah. That was wild as soon as Leah leaves. He's just like, mom. Look at me. She's just, He's like, you seem so happy. He's like, look at me and tell me that this is not normal. Because I want to go to the gym. It was very much giving like, like, I'm going to text you and you call me and say like, oh, my God, you lost your key and I need, like, I have to say. How to get out of a bad day. Yeah, yeah, how to get out of a bad day.

Starting point is 00:35:14 It was very much giving. He's like, mom, I don't look happy, right? Like, I look sleepy, right? Mom? He goes, tell me, is this what a relationship is supposed to be like? Which is so unfortunate. And Leah is just there, like, putting her heart out on the line for this guy. Her saying love you.

Starting point is 00:35:34 Love you. I was like, yes. No, I don't think watching it back, because, again, some of these scenes we didn't have the benefit of watching in real time. But watching it back, yeah, I think Chris has been very cavalier, I think, with Leah's feelings. And I don't think he understands how important this is to her. And, you know, everyone who goes around, TV, they come in with different expectations. I think most people go on The Bachelor. It's like, this is going to be a crazy experience. But like, you can go, like, I've always jokes. Like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:36:06 I went on the Bachelor because I've never been to Europe, you know, and that's true. I wanted to travel. But when I got there and I said, okay, well, I'm going to lean into this experience. It very quickly got very serious. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I am opening up and being vulnerable in talking about my feelings. Other people, you know, you go on the show with, you never see them kind of lock in, you know, maybe because they don't develop a connection with the lead. And then all of a sudden you feel this very different experience from what you're experiencing from people who are sitting across in the couch from you. And they're just having fun and drinking, whatever. And I'm getting that sense from from Leah and Chris where like she's very like, I want to find

Starting point is 00:36:44 love. I shockingly found this connection with this younger man. I'm going to give it a shot. And I'm, I'm worried that Chris has alternative motives. I have a question for the room. Do you, what are your guys's feelings on like, not necessarily in reality TV, but the idea of like a person who is like accidentally cavalier with people's feelings. How do you mean accidentally? Like I think sometimes in relationships, you, the idea of like you're trying to be nice because you like a person, right? But then you accident, you know, there's like things that get misconstrued, whatever lines get blurred. Like, what are your, because I think it's unfair. I think sometimes in these situations you look at Leah and

Starting point is 00:37:23 Chris and you're looking like, how could Chris just be kind of like leading her on like that? when he obviously doesn't. I think part of it too, specifically with age differences, I mean, what is, it's always the same, where it's like, I'm an old soul, you know, I'm mature for my age. And you can both be mature for your age and still have aspects of you that are immature. You know, there are some aspects that you, you know, Chris,

Starting point is 00:37:44 he's talked about how he's really stepped up for his family. His dad sounds like he's having some health issues. He seems like at a very young age, he's really stepping up in a meaningful way. And that takes a lot of maturity. You know, and so he could be very mature on that aspect of his life and completely immature when it comes to handling relationships and someone who comes in with, you know, I'd say like past trauma from relationships. When we are all there dating and I was, you know, I was taking a river to the park and thinking about this. I think a healthy, when we go out there and dating, you know, if you're out there still dating, I think a healthy baseline to recognize is that like to be in a relationship with me is what? You know, like, are you saying everybody or you? No, everyone. Like everyone who's out there, like, we're, you know, you go online right now and it's always like, there's so many bad options. All the men suck. All the women, you know, are terrible or whatever from the opposite side of the aisle. And we're always complaining about it. But like, when was the last time? It's just like, I, boy, I make a great first impression. But boy, a year end, I have a lot of needs. I have a lot going on. When we date, we act like, like, sure, I have some things I can work on. But overall, I'm just like really fun.

Starting point is 00:38:56 Are you calling me out right now? Like, this is me. No, here's the thing. It's like all of that is true. But then at the same time, it's like, yeah, we're all fucking disasters. Totally. We're just all a lot to deal with. Yeah, people.

Starting point is 00:39:09 And think about year three, you know. And think about how Logan felt watching that sex scene play out where she's like explaining to him about foreplay, you know? I do want to say, I do want to just say, Logan, great, great vibe, great guy. You took one for the team. Yeah. Libby and Andrew. I feel like, you know, they seem good.

Starting point is 00:39:28 They seem great. I think they're getting a lot of criticism because she looks bubbly and fun and that reads young and she is young and, you know. I mean, her friend was brutal and hitting him with a, he could use some Botox. Yeah. Like, damn, bitch. Yeah. That was like, that's the, it's just like, that's not funny. That's just mean.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Yeah. It's like, say that to me, like, not in front of his face. Maybe like, not the first time you meet him. You know what I mean? Like, we could joke about it like later, but it was just, at the same time, I'm like, I did like her friends that I was like they were honest. And I'm like I appreciate that. Like have your opinion.

Starting point is 00:40:01 I don't think it needed to be that brutally honest. Well, what's interesting is like we all have friends like that. And I thought he handled it pretty well. Because like, you know, if you are going to date someone younger, they might be mature for their age and you might have a great connection. But just doesn't mean all their friends are. Yeah. You know, and if you want to date them, you still have to accept that part of their life isn't

Starting point is 00:40:23 going to connect with yours. And you can't come. come into this and say, you got to shut that all down. You know, you got to be like me. You know, that's not how it works. You have to find that middle ground, you know. It's like Nick with some of my friends. He'll be like, the way he tries to connect with them and he'll be like, so, Chamblis,

Starting point is 00:40:44 tell me like three things in your life that you're loving right now and that are just inspiring you and motivating you. And she's like, Nick, this is such a Nick-ass question. I didn't know. She's like, hmm, I came prepared. You're like, why do I feel like this is a going deeper? Yeah, like, I didn't, you know, like, hey, how are you? I'm good.

Starting point is 00:41:04 All right, let's move on. You know, we are a lot to deal with. We are all a lot to deal with. We really are. I just see the champ was having a note sap now. Just like coming up with answers just in case. Well, also, I don't know. You know, those commercials where you're like, you're just like your parents.

Starting point is 00:41:21 Oh, my God. Every day I get older is every day I'm like, fuck, I'm like. Dad, you know, and I love, my dad's my hero. Yeah. I love so much about my dad. But like, realizing I was more like my dad than I realized, I just, is something that kind of throws you off. And, you know, and as you get older, you also see your parents as more human.

Starting point is 00:41:39 Yeah. And less, like, heroish. And you see their flaws as lovely as they are and the things they bring. And you realize, oh, I do that too probably. Yeah. Like, oh, that. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:51 So that's, that's the thing that all my exes got free. Okay. Yeah, no, okay, cool. It's wild. Life is funny. No, and I feel like, especially for, like, teenage girls, I feel like you kind of spend that entire time making sure you're nothing like your mom. And then it's like later on in life, you're like, oh, shit, I do.

Starting point is 00:42:10 Where do I get this from? And then you're like, ah! Yeah. Sometimes when I'm like, okay, I guess I just won't say anything. I'm like, oh, fuck. No. Also, I've realized that I'm like my dad so much, which is. He might be listening to this.

Starting point is 00:42:26 I don't. But yeah, I've realized he's a very, like, I'm not going to say anything about how my internal feelings ever. And I'm like, wait, fuck, I do that. I literally thought about these commercials yesterday because I had a guy come to fix the air conditioning and Connor wasn't there. But when he was leaving, he like had gone up to the roof, came back. And he was like, yeah, it was your compressor broken or something.

Starting point is 00:42:47 And I go, I genuinely have no idea what that means. But thank you. And he was like, he laughed at me and was like, you know, sometimes like a bunch of people, like they just ask. And then I realize that I'm explaining it to them and they have no idea. And I thought to myself, Connor. Connor would 100% be like, okay, so like, was it the, was it the fluid? Did it need to be replaced?

Starting point is 00:43:05 And it's like, you don't know. Why are we doing this? Why are we making this mad explained a job? Even after he explains it, you're still going to be like, okay. Okay, great. I could probably fix that. Yeah, I thought Pfeiffer and Derricks was very, I feel like that showed her age a lot and just the like, I don't know. It felt like him, her being clearly upset about like the moving to Dallas, changing her life, being like, oh, I never thought I would like change my life for a man, you know, whatever.

Starting point is 00:43:33 I always told myself that Derek being like, you know, I just like, give me a hug, you know, like, it's okay. Like we're going to figure it out. And her just being like, no, I actually don't want to be near you at all. Like, and he's like, I just want peace at the end of this. And she's like, peace. Really? Good luck. No, but if I were in that moment,

Starting point is 00:43:53 kind of reminded him of like with the conversation Mary we had, you know, going on your birthday. It's like you, in your early 20s, you have like your, I had these promises and I was going to do this. And I would never do this for a man or a woman or whatever. Derek is,

Starting point is 00:44:10 you know, has two kids. He's 20 years older. And he's like, yeah, I've been there, but I've learned to not, to be adaptable,

Starting point is 00:44:16 a row with the punches. Like, I've, I've been down bad a couple times and I've, I've worked through it. And, in that conversation, you can tell that, like, they're coming from very different perspectives about, like, how to, just how to interpret their fears and concerns. And she, it's, Fyfer reads like she hasn't really dealt with some of these heavier moments in life. And what, and, and you keep hearing her talk about past relationships and, and these bad boyfriends. And what seems to be working for her and Derek is, like, everything we know about Derek so far is he seems like a really. stand-up guy. You know, he treats his partner with respect and he's, he listens and he tries to be

Starting point is 00:44:58 calming, but she's not used to that. And she feel, she can tell it's healthy. Like, there's, this, the connection and how he handles himself, but they are still figuring out, do their lives still work together. You know, is she? Like, I relate so much to her fear, you know, obviously, like, I moved here for Nick. I had no friends here. I had only been to L.A. one time before this. Like, I had a life. I had a job. I had my job. I had my own apartment. Like, I was doing just fine in Georgia. And so then for Nick to be like, oh, well, I just bought this house, move out here,

Starting point is 00:45:29 move in with me. I was like, okay. But I definitely wasn't like, oh, I always told myself that I wouldn't do this or like my friends. I'm going to just like be so like putting all my eggs into this one basket. It's like at some point in your life, you do have to like make that leap and take a chance. and like see what happens. And maybe you move back to Seattle. Maybe, you know, like I kept my apartment in Georgia until my lease was done because I was like, maybe this won't work out.

Starting point is 00:46:00 Yeah. You know? I don't know. And we joke about this all the time, but like, Natalie has opened up about when she moved to New York, you know, as a teenager. And which is crazy and blah, blah, blah. But we probably don't work out if that doesn't happen. Because Natalie had that experience as a baseline of like, I'm going to move to this new city and not know any and I'm going to figure it out and I'll probably meet some friends.

Starting point is 00:46:25 When I was that age, I was more like Fyfer, where my friends were my whole life, where, you know, a lot of times you're just like, why would you ask your best friend, Eric, of whether you should move, like, they're not going to be in your life, you know, but like they're so important at that stage in your life for a lot of people. But yeah, I mean, at 22, like my friends were my whole life and their opinions were everything. And I definitely needed their approval. And so I wouldn't have been in the position that Nalia is in at that stage of her life, having done very different things, you know, that I did.

Starting point is 00:47:01 And so we worked out because we didn't have similar childhoods. And we live somewhat similar experiences at different stages in our life. And I think you're seeing with Derek and Pfeiffer, the more they talk, there's a clear connection. There's clear chemistry. There's a lot that works. But we're also seeing a lot that might not. Yeah. It seems like she's stepping into that era that he's experienced before.

Starting point is 00:47:27 Like she hasn't had the experience, but this is the catalyst. This is the thing that's going to help her grow if she moves, you know. Yeah. Well, we do have John and Jorge with us to unpack their experiences. We get into more of the drama between Jorge and Vanel. We get his side of the story. And who knows, we might get both sides of the story. story at some point later in the future. All right, well, up next, Jorge and John.

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Starting point is 00:50:40 Good to see you again. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. It's going for me longer, but you know. Yeah, free me longer. We started all these the same way, but I'm always just curious with this show. And why did you guys say yes to age of attraction?

Starting point is 00:50:53 Yeah, and just like, what was the draw? So I talked about this with him the other day, and he started cracking up. My grandmother lives on a small farm in Iowa, so Midwest connection. And I was thinking of the story she has as a 93-year-old on a farm in Iowa. And I live in a big city, Miami, and I got this opportunity. and I was thinking, what experiences did she have versus what experience can I make? And I was like, it's a no-brainer. For me, it was, I think Netflix did an amazing job because they chose y'all as the host

Starting point is 00:51:27 and your story is picture perfect. And then with me, I mean, I'm like the poster child for age attraction because I'm, you know, my age and then. Actually, I'm the poster child. No, you're a poster child, but not for them. But the actual thing is I've always believed, you know, like age is not a factor. And I would say the last 10 years, there's been plenty of times where you ask my age, I'm like, how old do I look?

Starting point is 00:51:52 And then just go off that because I don't want to get into that because eventually, immediately, you know, certain thoughts come to mind and, you know, it breaks the connection. And I always was like, if the connection is real, then the connection is real. And then let's see where it goes from there. So the age of attraction, the draw for me was to see if what I thought was accurate. and see whether or not it's true, like an experiment. And I came out emboldened in what I thought. John, we obviously, a lot of people have been very fascinated

Starting point is 00:52:18 with Yor and Teresa's relationship. And I think going into the show, you know, listen, like the Jorge's of the world, we've seen that before. We've seen older men date younger women. And, you know, that's certainly part of the show we wanted to explore. But society in the world has been more resistant and has some double standards when it comes seeing older women dating younger men. It was cool to see you and Treesor represent that type of relationship we don't get to see.

Starting point is 00:52:44 But coming into this experience, had you had a lot of experience when it comes to dating women older than you? Or was this something new? I have. Funny enough, I had a, we were talking. It wasn't anything official. The day I got cast, the girl I was talking to broke up with me because I was too young. And I missed the first call from production. I was in the elevator, got down, production called me,

Starting point is 00:53:13 and about 60 minutes before that said lady called me and said, hey, where you know. It wasn't, I was debating going on the show because I liked her. I called my sister. I was like, what do I do? And my sister was like, go, you have to explore this. And she made the decision for me. So, yeah, I have dated older women.

Starting point is 00:53:29 It's not something I seek out. I think I thank my parents from my upbringing and just how I was raised. I think having an older sister has definitely helped me date. She's taught me a lot and we're really close. So it's not something I look out for, but it's done it before. What was it about Trisa that drew you to her? Well, I say this all the time. The belt she was wearing just caught my attention.

Starting point is 00:53:52 That was like the first thing we talked about. And I loved her style. I'm in fashion. She's in fashion. You wanted to wear a belt? Okay. He was like, I'm going to link up with this girl because I want to borrow that felt. Can I use your belt?

Starting point is 00:54:03 Can I wear that belt? Because I have an outfit. I hope they go to my shoes. I got my shoes because we're talking about that. I want the belt. It was just easy. It was just easy. It was as weird.

Starting point is 00:54:16 And you brought me to the side at the beginning and said, you're going to get used to these cameras pretty quick. And I appreciate you for that. I thought this guy's lying. There's no way. But like dating in an experience like that is so surreal. And having her and just having it flow so easily made it feel like, whoa, if we can do this here, like we can probably do this outside.

Starting point is 00:54:36 No. And it was just easy. Jorge, we had a little bit of a moment where in the promise room, you were asked a question. Ooh, I can't wait. I'm glad you asked this question. We did get to see this in real time. Okay, but I can't wait for you to give you the story to it. Go ahead. Go ahead and ask the question.

Starting point is 00:54:54 Well, that's the question. Well, that's true. You're asked a question. Do you have kids? Do you want kids? And your response to that was, yeah, I'm open to having kids. Right. You kind of punted on the first question.

Starting point is 00:55:06 And you know why? Because I was like, you want to play games. So I wanted to tell her on her third date. And I was going to. And they were like, no, no, no, do that. I'm like, no, I want to tell her my, you know, I'm telling her. I have no, nothing to hide. No, no, no, no.

Starting point is 00:55:17 Then tell her now. I don't like you manipulate my conversations. So then I was like, okay, if y'all want to play that, I can answer questions. So when she asked it, I just answered, yeah, you want kids? We can have kids. I'm interested in having kids. I would have interested in having kids. So, yes, was it slick?

Starting point is 00:55:31 Yes. Was I worried about my kids? No. Was I embarrassed about talking about my kids? Absolutely not. It's something that I would have told her on the first day. I have no qualms about that. I just don't like being...

Starting point is 00:55:44 The interesting part about reality TV is sometimes things are made awkward when they don't need to be. And so I don't feel like it was... It was an organic was pushed, and I didn't like that. So I bucked against it. Now, of course, I know it's going to look like, Oh, Jorge just lied about his kids. Well, I mean, you guys worked through it pretty well, and it wasn't that big of a deal.

Starting point is 00:56:07 But I guess if nothing else, totally get what you're coming from. Reality TV does push for those moments. But so does, you could argue so does life. And I think, you know, in reality TV, what it does a good, it's a pressure cooker, right? And it accelerates time. True. And it puts people in kind of these forced situations to bring out things that would otherwise take four months for a couple to kind of get to that moment.

Starting point is 00:56:32 True. Right. But from Vannell's standpoint, it just kind of came across as almost. slick or just you avoiding her question because even if that question maybe she got prompted or why it happened in that moment versus the third one. Like at one point she was like he does not have kids. Like she's out there telling her girls and then you're like, I got to tell her about my kids. You know, like it created this moment where you clearly weren't on the same page and she had thought she asked you and thought she had received a different answer. I know. And you know what the interesting

Starting point is 00:57:05 part about it is as we had conversations further, she was like, I don't even know if I want kids. Like she told me, I don't even know if I want kids. Like, it's not something that is the most important thing to me. And I told her, look, so I tend to be a little bit, I will kick against the pricks if you try to make me to do something. And especially if I think that you're doing it to benefit, you know, okay, let's have some drama. So I'm like, no, I wanted to tell her on the third date. And you said, no, so no, why now you want me to come in here and be like, hey, I'm 90. And I got four kids. No, I'm like, nah, uh-uh.

Starting point is 00:57:38 It's going to be on my dime, on my time. Now, could that have looked disingenuous? It could. And I understand how it can be perceived. And if that would have been something that my kids would have been something that made her say no, then I really feel bad about it. Because that's not what I want to do. What I really wanted to do was, I want to tell you on my time.

Starting point is 00:58:00 Like, for instance, where you said how reality TV speeds everything up, right? Well, one of the things I do if I'm dating is I'll tell you right off. I don't have a problem saying, hey, yeah, I have two kids. It is what it is. And you either take it or you don't, and I'm okay with that. That's not something that bothers me. Now, my age, you determining not whether or not you want to date me because my age is not, yeah, that bothered me a little bit.

Starting point is 00:58:22 But now the jig is up. We all know. Everybody in the world, though. So, yeah, I don't have that problem anymore. So, look, I feel like the age of attracted did me a good favor because, hey, you know, there's no more guessing. There's no more guessing. There's no more guess.

Starting point is 00:58:35 Everybody knows. But yeah, I hated that. I hated the way that went down. I hated it. I really did. Another big disconnect that you and Vinal had was the conversation around celibacy. It was a very fascinating conversation. Obviously, I'm sure you agree that, you know, when people are talking about their boundaries

Starting point is 00:58:54 in the bedroom, we all need to respect those boundaries. A thousand percent. You introduced the conversation. I think the word you used a couple times was confused. You felt confused by what, and I don't want to. to put words in your mouth, so I want you to give me your point of view. But it seemed like you said you felt confused by what you thought the expectations that she set and then what ended up happening when you guys got alone. So could you add some context to, you know, we certainly

Starting point is 00:59:22 got to hear some things. Definitely got to hear some things. The phrase oral intimacy was used. Yeah. But I would just love to hear just how you interpreted that whole situation. So, When she raised the issue of celibacy in the promise room, if we were in a day, if we were in a regular dating situation, I'd be like, I ain't going to do that. But because of the age of attraction and the whole thing about the age of attraction is try something different. So I said, okay, I'm not going to, first of all, I don't want any woman that I'm dating to feel like she can't say something to me or tell me how she feels. So I was like, I'm open to talk to it. So then immediately when we said that, my viewpoint going to Vancouver was, we're not. doing nothing. Like we're just going to be hanging and okay this is a different

Starting point is 01:00:09 reality for me so now I'm living with a lot of talking right I'm gonna do a lot of talking right I mean we're gonna be one thing we're gonna be is really good friends because we're gonna do a hell of a lot of talking ain't any shit that's going on meanwhile you know these guys are like so so but so I'm like okay that's cool and I have no problem with that I can control myself so when we even when we went into the bedroom I was like you know you're on your side I'm on my side But one thing I want to make sure I'm never going to disparage Vanel or her choice to want to be celibate. But, you know, it's like one of my mentors once said to me is to give good advice and set bad examples is quite confusing.

Starting point is 01:00:49 So what's confusing to me is if you're on that tip, we don't do nothing. There's no touching. There's no nothing. But when the lights went off, that, I mean, it was confusing. And I don't want to make it seem. the one thing I'll say is this I didn't initiate of any like I did not

Starting point is 01:01:09 because I respect her boundaries right and I respect you like you're going to pull Logan and just be like all right good night so hey listen I'm like I respect that but you know and so here's the thing what what I started to come to understand was okay

Starting point is 01:01:27 you're struggling with celibacy like that's something that you want but maybe you're not you weren't expecting it to be, you know, where we're at right now. That's what I start. So for me, I felt like the issue should have been, okay, I'm struggling with this. Maybe we should just, can you help me type thing? But not like convicting me based on, you know, so I'm confused.

Starting point is 01:01:53 When we go in the bedroom, we're doing different things. Did you feel like she didn't give you the space to ask for clarity or to have the conversation around what celibacy meant to her. Is that what you're trying to say? I think so. I think that the conversation, I think, I think you put it accurately. I think the conversation should have been explained to me with celibacy is with because if celibacy to you is, you know. Everything but sex. Everything but sex. Well, then, okay, I respect that. That's not what I got. When you say celibacy to me, there's nothing, right? Yeah, I mean, but I mean, and Vanel is very open about her faith.

Starting point is 01:02:30 and I feel like celibacy comes from that. Yes, as a preacher's kid, celibacy means nothing. I mean, I grew up in the church. Celibacy is absolutely nothing. So that's why I think, in retrospect, the conversation should have been, what is celibacy to you?

Starting point is 01:02:51 Like, what is it? Because if celibacy to her is everything but sex, well, then she was right on time. And I understand that. But if celibacy is nothing, now it's confusing, you know? And one of the things that I don't want to do is, like, I think Vanel is an amazing person who stand on that. And I think that the, with Vanel, it became, it was like night and day because in the bedroom, it's one thing. But then when we're talking, it's like, what do you think about my celibacy?

Starting point is 01:03:23 What do you want my? And so it's like, you kind of put me in a position where I don't, I'm confused. And that's why I felt. It almost seemed like when you brought it up at all for maybe clarity purposes, that she almost received it as you almost kind of challenging her vow of celibacy. It's almost like an in fairness to her, she had opened up and expressed that like other men seemed to have not wanted to accept this. And, you know, I wonder if that's how she received it.

Starting point is 01:03:55 I think that's that's directly. You're right. directly correct. I think, well, one of the things that Vanel and I had a conversation is she's like, I don't do conflict well. And I said, well, I do conflict extremely well. My job is conflict. I said, and I don't believe you run from conflict. I believe you run to it. Because if you communicate, anything can myself. I was like, listen, any relationship, it all comes down to communication. What did you say last night about communication? I said, in any relationship that you have, if you have proper communication, nothing can be, there's no relationship that can't, that, that, that

Starting point is 01:04:26 can't make it. The problem, and I forgot the exact quote, but the problem with relationships is if you and I are on the same team and you think that I said something disrespectful or whatever, like in general relationships, if we're in the same team, you know, if you know me, you know I'm never trying to hurt you. So then that means there's a communication issue. So to me, what should be incumbent upon the two people is, so what did you mean by that? Because I know that you would never purposely hurt me. And then I think you get resolution. So with Vinal, I was always like, when we could talk about it. But I think. But now one of the things like she said, she didn't do conflict well, it was like an affront to her.

Starting point is 01:05:01 Like, I'm coming after her celibacy, which I wasn't. Like, I just want clarity. Like, give me, if you say, okay, this is what we can do. Cool, because I was cool with two weeks of talk. That's fine. If that's what it's going to be, I'm not, I can restrain myself very well. It's not that serious to me. But I think that it was the bedroom and outside the bedroom, it was, I was in two different worlds. And I think, like you said, I think that she took it as me, challenging her her celibacy and I wasn't I wasn't

Starting point is 01:05:30 I had no problem with it John going into meeting Teresa's kids that was obviously a very emotional thing for Teresa we saw when we dropped

Starting point is 01:05:39 the bomb on you guys that she was very nervous you did miss that far I know I heard did you know that she was not going to tell them your age had y'all talked about that not really

Starting point is 01:05:50 I genuinely didn't care I feel like it was hers and I's relationship obviously her kids are a massive part of the relationship. I thought of my parents, my sister, my friend group, my circle, and how supportive they are and still are. And as the show's getting to air, they're still supportive. I thought, oh, my circle wouldn't care how old she is. So why would her circle care how old I am?

Starting point is 01:06:16 So I thought, you know, if she doesn't want to tell them, it's not a big deal to me. And that's just the truth. It's a her and eyes relationship. You know, if we were going to make this work, I think her connection with the kids, the kids would see our connection and be like, all right, whatever, fuck it, how old is, like, you know, my mom's happy.

Starting point is 01:06:38 And that's really what it comes down to. I'm assuming, though, like you, you know, because Teresa throughout the journey, reference the clear double standard that there is when it comes to age differences between men and women. Was it easier for you to be her support system in that? Or how did you find the balance between validating her justifiable insecurities

Starting point is 01:07:04 and at the same time trying to also encourage her and support her to like, you know, get out of her head, enjoy what you two had and things like that? How did you strike that balance? That was tough because I think I was like her rock throughout the whole thing. and I don't think I really showed that I needed some support too. Yeah. Like her not really, and the age thing was fine. Like her, I didn't, I didn't, that wasn't a check.

Starting point is 01:07:32 Oh, she needs to tell the kids old old I am to make this real. But I think I was, and I gladly so, but I was supporting her. She had a lot more, she was a lot more emotional than I was. And I think me supporting her towards the end kind of weighed on me, actually. That might not show. I felt like I was supporting her a lot. And then when I would give a little bit, it would be like overshadowed. Like you have less to lose.

Starting point is 01:07:59 You know, my kids are here. You don't have kids. And I told her the whole time, I can't relate to your past. I can't relate to XYZ. You know, she's been through some shit. And I feel for her. I do. I can't relate to it.

Starting point is 01:08:13 I've never experienced what she's experienced. But I can hear her out. And I think I started hearing her out. started hearing her out, started hearing her out, and then I lacked, all right, I need some support too. There was an interesting moment. Do you remember when you met her kids? And afterwards, you gave an interview and you talked about you feeling a little

Starting point is 01:08:35 frustrated that she wasn't as expressive as you wanted her to be about your two connection. Do you remember that? Well, I think if we're just, you know, being real, I think she was just excited to see. see them and I think it was more, I think that overshadowed. Oh, John's here. Let's talk about John. Well, it's interesting. You haven't seen this yet. No. I don't want to know anything. Right after you left, the first words out of her kid's mouth was them just being like, it's obvious how much you like John. Oh, okay, good. So I'm just curious after, you know, you feeling this one thing and the thing that you wanted was like almost like her kids to see that connection.

Starting point is 01:09:24 You didn't feel like Teresa did that, but clearly her kids saw what you wanted them to see. I'm just curious what you think about that. And I think the whole time I saw, I don't have kids, you know, I don't know if I want kids and we talked about that. I don't know if I'll ever have that connection that she has with her kids,

Starting point is 01:09:44 so I can't relate to that. I can relate to what I've experienced with my mom and my sister in our relationship with my parents. But I think that she was just so focused on seeing them. And I saw how important they were to her that I wanted, I guess I wanted that validation because she just talked about it nonstop. And then when you guys dropped the bomb that they were coming, I saw how much of a wreck she was.

Starting point is 01:10:08 And I remember the next like four or five days. It was not good between us. She was just like, it was so maternal that she was like, where are they? Where are they? Like it was it was like pure science almost like her like

Starting point is 01:10:23 where are they? Are they safe? Like I know they're around I was like holy fuck So the next couple days after you guys dropped that bomb It was it was rough

Starting point is 01:10:31 Sorry Sorry about that She's doing a job Yeah Yeah Yeah you're dropping bombs Hey How about that?

Starting point is 01:10:42 You and Vannell's breakup Do you think it was because of the disconnect around the situation that happened out on the streets of Vancouver where the man approached the two of you? Do I think that was the reason?

Starting point is 01:10:57 Correct. I think it was part of it. I think it was a culmination. Honestly, I did not even expect for the breakup to happen. I feel like, once again, communication is the most important thing to me.

Starting point is 01:11:13 I realize Vannell, I mean, you saw the breakup, She's running off, coming back. To me, just sit there and talk about it. We're too mature adults. We could talk about it. I felt that she felt some kind of way about, you know, we had the celibacy argument, whether, you know,

Starting point is 01:11:28 and our little confusion there. And I think that the incident on the street, I stand ten toes down on that. You know, there's no, there's niggling wiggle room for me. If I'm in a situation and someone presents a danger to a woman that's around me, it's not, there's no questions. of how I'm going to react to it. No questions. And I think that we even talk about it. She's never been in that kind of situation before. And so I think she wanted, in my estimation,

Starting point is 01:11:56 I told her, you can't dictate how I'm going to protect a woman in my life. That's just not going to happen. And I'm going to always do that. So because of that, you know, it looks like that's the culmination. That's the final blow. And I think it was a culmination. And honestly, if I look at the breakup, I think the breakup is we lack communication ability. We, If we can't talk about that, I mean, a situation when in Vancouver and celibacy, then there's no way. Do you feel like that was an age thing or do you think that just compatibility, personality thing? That's completely personal. It has nothing to do with age. I've dated, you know, and I'm not going to even say, you know, I've dated one time someone young and in a vanilla and it was not even. It's a, to me, that's an individual, you know, basis, an individual person that this is, I mean, Vanel went in and honestly, she said, I'm not good with conflict.

Starting point is 01:12:52 That's not going to be good because you're going to face conflict. Now, someone with a different personality that's probably a little bit more laid back and not as going to call you on it. You could, that can probably go over. And we talked about that. She said she's used to, she told me she's spoiled. She's used to getting her way. And I said, well, that's cool. But if I see something that's not correct, I'm going to call you on.

Starting point is 01:13:14 I'm not going to let it go. Those two moments, her saying, admitting to you that she's used to eating her way and acknowledging to you that she's not used to or comfortable with conflict, looking back, do you feel like those two things specifically spoke to why you two aren't that compatible? Yes. And, well, there were other things that came up in our conversations that if I'm out in the world, I'm like,

Starting point is 01:13:39 Like, I'm very heavy into black history. Very heavy. And Vinell was like, who's Morris Chestnut? Like, who? So I was like, you don't know any of those things. And so then initially I was like, ooh, but then I caught myself because there was a lot of things about Vanel that I really liked. Like, we had some good connection.

Starting point is 01:14:00 There was, I was, the weird thing is I've never been so protective of someone so quick. And that's what I felt for her. It felt very protective of her. And so there would be things that were, that doesn't, we're not compatible there. But once again, I go back to like, well, we can talk about it. And then, you know, if at the end of the day, we talk and we have good conversations about it and we just are diametrically opposed and that's cool.

Starting point is 01:14:29 But, I mean, I didn't think that any of it, we didn't really talk about it. I mean, you have a guy, we're in Vancouver and guys standing behind her with a skateboard, like literally behind, like literally behind. like right behind her and he's talking crazy, there's no way I'm going to let you stand behind her. Like, there's no way. And so when I told her, I said, go in front of me. And I told him very simply, you can either move or I'm going to move. I'm going to take care of it. I'm not going to have that problem. There's not going to be, I'm not going to sit there and talk with you because he's not, he wasn't rational in dealing with that. So to me, she got upset about

Starting point is 01:15:00 me. Like, she's thinking that, well, I think you're overreacted. Well, so you want me to just let him, like, what do you want me to do? So that's not going to work. That won't work. But do I think that should break you? I think that's a talking thing. And you go, okay, let's get an understanding. And how I know that is because after Vinny, when we got back, she admitted that to me. She called me and she was like, look, you know, I talked to my best friend and my mother.

Starting point is 01:15:27 And I was wrong. I should, you know, you were just trying to defend me. So to me, like, that's why you don't have knee jerk reactions. Let's just talk. Listen, I mean, you, like, yeah. I mean, like, you are clearly a great communicator, but also as a defense attorney, you do bring a very strong energy. Yes. You know?

Starting point is 01:15:45 Yes. And there was a moment when you and Vinald broke up where she said, I don't know if you heard this or if she's just talking to the camera. at times. And I wonder if, if you've ever received that feedback where despite you still be a good communicator, realizing that, like, how you talk to your girl versus, like, how you talk to like other people, there's been some, like, blurred lines, so to speak. And is that feedback you've gotten in the past? A thousand percent. Absolutely. And I will receive it every day, um, 10 times a week. I mean, there's definitely times I'm very, I'm very strong opinion, very strong willed and it's all black and white for me. There are times when you have to pump the

Starting point is 01:16:41 breaks. And to me, if that happens and you say that to me, listen, I think you're feeling like you're talking at me. Then immediately I pumped the brakes because when I'm with a woman, I'm going to always respect if that's the way she's receiving it. I don't care what I think. If that's the way she's receiving it, that's just the way she's receiving it. And that means I need to change my approach. Now, she never said that to me, but one of the things, with Vanel was, and I don't know what it looks like on the camera because I haven't seen it, but there will be times where she would talk and I would listen. And then when I go to talk, she's interrupting me.

Starting point is 01:17:15 And I'm like, just you talk, I'll listen to you, everything you have to say, and then let me respond to it. And I'm big on, if you keep interrupting me, then, okay, you're not even respecting. You're not even listening to what I'm saying. Because to me, in order for me to hear you, I have to listen to everything you say and then resonate on it for a second, not be planning what I'm going to say back to you because that's not good communication. But to your point, how do you already have an answer?

Starting point is 01:17:42 I just got time off. You're waiting like, okay, I've had times where people like, go ahead, go ahead, go in because I got something to say. Well, then how can you be listening to what I'm saying? Like, that's impossible. And so I kind of felt that with her. And then, you know, times when she just ran off.

Starting point is 01:17:57 But to Vanel's defense, one again, I think the world of Vanel, I think she's a great person. And I think our communication styles are definitely different. If she felt like I was talking at her, please tell me that. And if that is the case, then I need to change it because it's not acceptable. If that's what she feels, feelings are 100%. It doesn't matter if I'm saying, no, that's not what's happening.

Starting point is 01:18:18 That's the way she felt. And they're 100%. And if that was the case, then I would have said, okay, well, let me pump the brakes and let me try to address it in a different way. Because she's not going to take any of that in anyways. No, not at all. So, yes, so in response to your question, I have heard it before. And when it has been said to me before, then I back up and say, okay, let me try this a different way. John, when we came to the rooftop and told you all that Jorge and Vennel had ended their relationship, how shocked were you?

Starting point is 01:18:45 We had a meeting. We all got together like the night before, two nights before, and the vibes were off. And we all got together and Vennel was separated. Jorge was over here. And we all noticed it. We're like the vibes are. off. Vanel's, and I haven't gotten the chance to meet Vanel, really talked to her, but you could tell she was very isolated. Jorge was even his, you see his attitude, his persona, he was even quiet, so we knew something was up. What had happened was, that was the first day she came out and she asked, said something about the celibacy. And I was like, when she raised it, I said, I don't know. She's like, how do you feel about my celibacy? I said, I don't know. And she's like, that's not

Starting point is 01:19:27 acceptable. And I was like, well, we're in a state of I don't know, right? We don't know if we want to be in a relationship. We don't know. So I don't know because what I was really saying is I'm confused, right? Like, what does it mean? And she did not like that. And so one of the things that I'm big on is any problems that we have, we keep it in-house, right? But she got a little upset and went upstairs by herself without me. So when I came up, she's already up there. And I'm like, I'm going to get into no beef with you because this is not worth it. So, you know, then we come back downstairs and everything was cool. You know, then we went on a day, which was the, it was really odd. because I think, to her credit, her snapback is good.

Starting point is 01:20:05 Like, in the sense of, you know, okay, that happened, okay, let's move on. Because then we go on a date and everything be great. And I'm thinking, oh, we're good. And then it's like, but what do you think about this? I'm like, is that a good sign or bad sign? I mean, it can be very good because if some people linger and hold grudges in, that's not good. And if you can snap back and say, hey, look, I'm not going to linger on that stuff.

Starting point is 01:20:26 That's good. That's really good. And then circle back when you're a little bit more clear-headed and be like, let's have more of a conversation. And one thing is that I want to make it clear, I'm never going to be on, you know, vilify, Vanel. That's not going to happen. Like, I thank the world.

Starting point is 01:20:39 I think she's a beautiful woman. I think that we had some really dope chemistry and some really dope moments. I think that the breakdown in our relationship was communication. That we did not communicate well. And when you don't communicate well, I don't care what relationship or what friendship you have, it will not stand.

Starting point is 01:20:58 Well, I appreciate you guys coming on. great catching up with you guys. It's really a pleasure to have you guys back here. And we've said this to everyone already. But thanks for being part of this journey with us. I think this was, I really enjoyed making the show with you guys. And it's really been fun to see like good quality people work through these complicated relationship dynamics that I think represent dating culture in a very realistic way. Yeah. Through the lens of age differences. But it's been a lot of fun having you guys on the show. And certainly Jorge wishing you the best, luck on your love journey and John I'm very excited to see how things play out with you and

Starting point is 01:21:35 Trisa and thank you I think my love journey is going to be me and my dog I don't want to need I don't want to argue well I will say it was very very different stories from Jorge and Vanel regarding the street incident just to recap Vanel was like this guy was probably 100 yards away and he was running his mouth but I felt like Jorge my man do I want him to protect me, sure. Do I want him to defuse a situation? Sure. But I felt like he could have diffused that situation a little differently.

Starting point is 01:22:09 And Vinald made it seem like Jorge, instead of helping the situation, kind of made it worse before he made it better. Jorge, according to his story, that guy was two feet away. With that skateboard in his hand. Ready to go. And urgency was required. Here's the thing. As a woman, if someone was actually like making me. uncomfortable. I would remember that and be honest about that. So it's like, I don't know why Vanel

Starting point is 01:22:38 would say this guy was like farther away if he wasn't. You know? I don't know. I'm anyway, that's all. I will say it is a really interesting thing. You know, like I feel like every once in a while. I feel like, you know, you want to know your man can protect you. You know, Like, it's just like, can you beat him up if I wanted you to, you know, type of energy. And I also think, but in real life, in real situations, very much like Vanel, it's like, I don't need you to make a bad situation worse by like puffing your chest and giving me this you're a tough guy, you know? And I think that's sometimes a fine line between like, do you want me to beat the shot of them?

Starting point is 01:23:21 Or like, do you need, what do you need for me right now? But I do think a lot of times guys will act out in a way that they think their woman wants. And yet they're like, you made that way worse than it needed to be. Right. They act out in a way that their boys in the past would have appreciated or supported or egged on where it's like as a woman, it's like, no, no, don't make me feel extra unsafe because now I have to be worried about your well-being as well as mine. Well said. Yeah. All right. Let's finish things off with a little summer house. A little summer house. Apparently their mid-season trailer just dropped. It looks insane. I loved this episode. I felt like it was just

Starting point is 01:23:57 more of the same. Yeah, but I love summer house. Same. I love more of the same. Give me these people hanging out in that house and things happening. I'll watch a group of an adult act like giddy teenagers while playing Spin the Bottle. Their edition. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 01:24:10 West Will's, I had like, sometimes the show is too much. Sometimes it's a little too like parallel lifestyle, like where it's just like maybe like I've met like I've been both. I've been West and I've been Sierra. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't know what I do. I don't know what's worse. I don't know which person I would rather not be right now. KJ told Dara about kissing Sierra?

Starting point is 01:24:34 No. We'll see. I think it's coming up because I think... I don't think it was that... I don't know. You wouldn't want... I mean, tell her, obviously. She's going to see, but, like, yeah, I think he should tell her because it seemed not to be, like, a thing.

Starting point is 01:24:50 I was like, Sierra was a little bit more passionate with Bailey than she was. Yeah, I was like, Sierra and Bailey's makeup was hotter than Sierra and KJ's. All right, let's watch this trailer. That was good. That does look good. Looks really good. Doesn't that look? Walked in.

Starting point is 01:25:02 Awesome. Very. A couple of things that stood out to me. When West is like, I'm just worried about Sierra getting her heartbroken. If you are in Sierra's camp and you're her friends, like that should be all you need to hear to run. I'm over. It's not serious. You know, the fact that he is in no way worried about his feelings being heartbroken is this like.

Starting point is 01:25:26 The way he's saying it is if it's not. his like responsibility like you know what I mean where it's like oh I just don't want her heart to get broken okay then don't do something or have a conversation that sets expectations as to where you guys are at and and again but this is obviously just a tease and we're probably missing context but we have heard west refer this in the past which is like he's always referring to the sexual tension but he also called her the love of his life in the beginning of the season so it's just kind of like you're the one that's putting the shit out here mixed signals being like oh I miss her so much I'm going to cry to all my castmates not say anything to her. But maybe West saying she's a love of her life is coming from a place of a guy who's never really been in love. Had a real serious

Starting point is 01:26:07 relationship. Maybe he's comparing it to I don't know what he's comparing it to but I think that context is probably important for Sierra to consider. My read on the West situation is like I don't know it's I don't trust him and maybe I'm just

Starting point is 01:26:24 giving him the benefit of the doubt but I think maybe maybe there's a part of him that really when he's saying he doesn't want Sierra to get his get her heartbroken it's because he knows he doesn't trust himself and he doesn't want to like do it again and doesn't want to like fuck and maybe and I'm not saying that's a

Starting point is 01:26:41 I'm not like saying that means it's okay or anything you're just denying any responsibility that West has in his own actions no he does have responsibility and he's not 18 yeah like 30 yeah like that's what I'm saying it's like oh I just don't want that to happen don't do it's like I understand where he's coming from but he like I think I have the tendency to like be more empathetic towards him when in real I didn't watch the season where he fucked over Sierra.

Starting point is 01:27:07 You should do that. So what's really tough to watch that moment and the episode where Sierra is this like and then this shit's going to get aired and that's going to be a whole other thing and it's exhausting. I just I felt for her in that moment so much because my guess is they're making TV and on some level both Sierra and West are leaning in to this chemistry that they're. they clearly have. That is a real thing, right? But two things can be true at the same time,

Starting point is 01:27:32 where for West, it is, he's leaning in, but also, like, knows that he, like, his heart is not,

Starting point is 01:27:38 like, is fragile about this. He feels in control when it comes to the chemistry he feels with Sierra. And then you have Sierra who's like, I've moved on and I know it's probably not healthy for me,

Starting point is 01:27:48 but I'll lean in. But, like, these, like, I really got fucked up in this relationship. This really fucking hurt me. Yeah. And regardless of who's right

Starting point is 01:27:55 and who's wrong, this took a lot for me to, move forward. And now she's like making, you know, and it's just like it kind of real and kind of like leaning in, but it's so fucking messy. But she also knows that no matter what, when this gets aired, we're going to have people going to talk about it and shows like, you know, we'll have commentary and like, you know, people will clip it and DM her and say mean.

Starting point is 01:28:19 How could you be so stupid? I mean, Sierra, she's got her, she posted a TikTok of her on the Oscar's red carpet with her, taking her bro, like, with like the glitter. the glamed out Prozac bottle, which like I want now. But it's just like, I don't know, it just makes me think of like the way that how much more intense this West and Sierra relationship is because of the extraneous factors, much more less so than the actual dynamic. The actual dynamic between the two of them is very simple. They're both kind of into each other and they just have to decide like if it's worth it or not. Right.

Starting point is 01:28:51 But then it's because of this context. And they have mutual friends. I mean, I had a girlfriend once before. No, you did it. But when one of my girlfriends that I had long in a different lifetime that maybe it wasn't, I don't even remember, I barely remember. Back when you were Siler in 17th century. Anyone, I remember.

Starting point is 01:29:07 Like in my past life. We broke up, but we had all these mutual friends. We all hung out in the same group. You know, a month after we broke up, we went to our best friend's wedding that we both were standing up in. And it's like, girl, been there. Tell me about it. What'd you do?

Starting point is 01:29:25 Backslide. Nothing. Nothing? Okay. The conversation between Kyle and Amanda, where he's like, I'm getting a manager. And she's like, so this is like a long-term thing. So you're like a DJ now.

Starting point is 01:29:42 If there was a moment where Amanda was like this. We're done. That had to have been it. Oh, yeah. Had to have been it. I could just see that little smirk on her face. I was going to say she said it with a smile. I was like, I'm scared.

Starting point is 01:29:54 I mean, like, I didn't marry. a DJ. And suddenly I'm in a relationship with the DJ. And suddenly I'm the wife of a DJ. The best is that it was like her being like, hey, like, do you think that maybe all of this stress and this frustration that you're going through? Like maybe we should be like cutting some of the extracurricular activities. And he's like, but you don't even want to talk about how lover boy is stressing me. It's like, well, lover boy is your bread and butter. Loverboy is the company you built from the ground up. Either sell that company if it's such a burden to you and then get divorced and become a full-time DJ or handle your business at Loverboy. Maybe you being gone.

Starting point is 01:30:25 every week and weekend DJing and not being able to invest that time into your company is why it's such a burden to you. And saying the alternative is what staying in the apartment all weekend. And she's like, no, we would do things together. Hang out. And he's like, hmm, date. The best moment of every day of my life right now is getting into bed with my wife and just watching. watching a show watching a show and just like taking my daughter into the park and grabbing you know at dinner

Starting point is 01:31:02 and not thinking about work or whatever it is like just slowing down at this stage in my life which is similar to the ages of Kyle when Kyle is this like but I've never been happier DJing and it's I'm glad he's found his happy

Starting point is 01:31:18 place but I could not imagine what it be like I mean again I'm married to someone younger than me. I couldn't imagine if one day Nalia comes home and was this like, I need to, I don't know, what would be the equivalent? I guess DJing.

Starting point is 01:31:33 Let's say, you know? Yeah, she could DJ. And she was like, I've never been happier. I hate techno music. Guys, I could never do it. Doing this thing where like you're not there. You're not there ever. You don't come on these trips with me.

Starting point is 01:31:46 And you know what? Just never been happier. It's so wicked part two. Blinda. I have my business. I have my marriage. But you know what really brings joy to my life. From.

Starting point is 01:31:54 Uh-huh. When I get to leave. When I get to leave you. And get hammered and stay up until 5 a.m. Yeah. Well, and then he was like, she doesn't understand. Like, I'm able to like go to these shows and get lover boy into venues. And it's just like, okay, so is lover boy the biggest burden of your life that you don't want to do?

Starting point is 01:32:10 Or now you're saying it you also use it as the excuse and the reason as to why DJing is beneficial, where I'm just like, I just don't buy it. I don't think these clubs are like putting lover boy. Yeah, they'll sell it for the night because you're there. But I'm like, they're not continuously selling lover boy. boy at like atrium in Las Vegas. It does make me sad for Kyle that like he just can't see what everyone else can see. Oh, Carl in the midseason trailer being like, you're about to throw away your life and your relationship, everything you've built for what, some fun for a couple of nights.

Starting point is 01:32:41 And now he's being like, oh, I think the tink girl, Mara Higgins is like so. And she's like, I don't know who this man is, but like, no thanks. It's like, that's your reality. The tink girl just got a burkin. Yeah. And you, buddy You just finally gave a Cardi A watch after 10 years You called her the tink girl?

Starting point is 01:32:59 Yeah, like how she says, I tink Instead of I think Yeah, because you know, heaven forbid, you know her name. Yeah, I've got a crush on her by like one Googler. One Googler or no, how to say her name. Ben and Bailey. Everything's fine. That was interesting.

Starting point is 01:33:12 We all lost our shit. The internet was taking sides. I'm fine, yeah. Yeah, they seem. Hot makeout. And then him like getting into bed after with her and being like, Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:23 Hey. She starts crying. She's like, thank you for apologizing to me. I'm like, you know, really? I love my girl, Bailey. She's so normal. She's so normal. She's so, it's so.

Starting point is 01:33:38 Honestly, it's like, and that's so real. Exactly. And that's so real. It is real. It is real. You become so weird. Or some people become so weird. So weird.

Starting point is 01:33:47 Interested in somebody. Yeah, you start saying the wrong thing. And then you're overthinking it. It's like the worst. It's very. Did you do it yourself? Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:57 It's like, um, it's so relatable. I just know exactly every single time. I know what Bailey is feeling exactly every single time she's standing next to Ben. And I'm just like, girl, I'm so sorry. When Lindsay's at the table and she's like, yeah, I told Bailey to go for you. And he's like, oh, you know, yeah. She also told me that you like gave me two thumbs down. And she's like, well, I just said that like, you know, he probably won't have sex with you.

Starting point is 01:34:20 And he's like, in his confession, being like, Well, let's just be clear. Like, when we were hooking up, she said it was the best sex of her life. It's like, no, Carl. Like, no one was doubting your game. That's not what she was saying. You don't have to perk up your chest here.

Starting point is 01:34:35 We hear you. Okay. Yeah. Charming. Cute. Yeah. I love this past. She's like, I'm not really part of this class.

Starting point is 01:34:44 I pop in and out. And when I'm here, I'm just going to start a bunch of shit. And then I'm going to take care of my kid. She is a reality TV star. I love how she's. She comes in and she already knows what the fuck is going on. Yeah. We don't have to sit through a recap.

Starting point is 01:34:56 Well, she gets her recaps in the city from like Amanda. And they thankfully don't show them. You know, like I need, all I need is what Lindsay's giving me where she comes in. And she's like, oh, are we going to, are you going to talk about making out with me behind my back? Like, needed that. Loved that. Need. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:13 Everything Lindsay's bringing is great. And the way they're, yeah, the way they'll do a quick flashback to like Lindsay of the city getting the info going. And then her use. it immediately as a weapon of mass destruction. Even like Lindsay being like, or Bailey being like, or I told Bailey that it's cool. Like you guys should go for each other. That I'm just like, it's just showing growth.

Starting point is 01:35:31 You know what I mean? Or like Lindsay trying to have a nice conversation with Carl. She's like, how did that go? It's very much like, did you do your hair different? Okay. And I'm going to leave now. Bye. Carl basically hiding upstairs while Lindsay's there.

Starting point is 01:35:43 Literally. Hilarious. And like being completely dumbfounded at her being nice to him that he's like, I don't know how to respond. Watching West like run. Sierra and you can tell he's like blackout drunk yeah like you can just see it and you can smell it through the phone when he yeah when he did the foot starts then he scoots the chair then the arm goes and you see Sierra just kind of like what the fuck because jesse's laughing

Starting point is 01:36:09 and she's like what the fuck are these two doing and west looking at jesse being like oh fuck you up it's like you are so hammered out of your mind you need to go to bed my favorite is the next morning when he's on the couch and they're like yeah you were like touching it rubbing on seriously he's like stop stop yeah it's been there it's it's that embarrassment from west that makes it hard for me to stay mad at him because he's just like oh no i loved his lying being like there's nothing worse than not knowing if you were cringe cringe and i've never felt anything more in my heart you know what i mean that's the thing about me and west Carl caught astray when like, you know,

Starting point is 01:36:46 Sierra and the girls are talking about whether like West and him, her actually done, like, would you give him another chance? Oh, yeah. Which is like so real, right?

Starting point is 01:36:56 Like sometimes you finally, you know, there's the whole phase of a breakup. You know, you're fucked up about it. Whether maybe you left the relationship, they left you, but you,

Starting point is 01:37:04 you, your whole life was still, you know, you have so much history. All your Sundays were, you know, you had a routine. And then there's this kind of weird,

Starting point is 01:37:12 you know, you know, you shouldn't be with them, so you don't, but you kind of hang out. And then finally you get to the point where you're just like, we date it? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:37:19 I can't, we date it. I would never. And then you have Lindsay being like, so let me just frame it for you. I would never. A million years, ever be caught in the same room with Carl Radke.

Starting point is 01:37:32 And again, she's just trying to talk to his girls, but like it can't help but feel to Carl if he's watching it back being like, Jesus fucking Christ. Like, am I, was I a monster? But it's like, holy shit. But like, that's just her.

Starting point is 01:37:43 Like she doesn't want to be with Carl. Totally get it. But like it also like made it clear, you know, then Sierra's like, well, when you put it that way, I'm not, she is not at that phase with West where she looks at him and goes, huh? Yeah. What? She looks at him. I was in. I was, I cried over.

Starting point is 01:38:01 Yeah. I was sad over this thing, you know, and she's definitely not there. But I've definitely had that thought. Yeah. It's very, very relatable stuff. It does look like a great second half of the season. I'm really enjoying this. Locked in.

Starting point is 01:38:14 Considering we let, you know, it's a very transitional season for them. Yeah. I mean, I love this, like, all the new people, I had a harder time with some of the new people last season because I feel like, like, Lexi got done dirty. So it's not her fault or anything. It was just what Jesse did her dirty. And so it was hard for her to have an actual character. But like, yeah, watching like Mia and Bailey and Ben, like, in KJ, like, you know,

Starting point is 01:38:37 I'm locked in. I'm invested. I want to know more about their lives. All right. Well, all right. That will do it for today's episode. Thank you to our guest, John and Jorge, from Age of Attraction. We appreciate you all listening.

Starting point is 01:38:49 Bye-bye.

The Viall Files - E1096 - Age of Attraction w/ Jorge & John, Taylor Frankie Paul, Summer House, and Existential Crises

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