The Viall Files - E1099 - Bachelorette On Pause? Jessi Draper Addresses Divorce, AOA Finale w/ Chris & Arden Myrin

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Happy Age of Attraction FINALE to all!! To celebrate, we've got Arden Myrin on the couch to give allll her juicy hot takes, as well as an interview with the man (or boy… depending on who you ask) himself, Chris! Plus, we get into the most recent episode of RHOBH and the Kyle Cook crashout that is this week's Summer House. Meanwhile, we continue discussions surrounding Taylor Frankie Paul, the Bachelorette and Jessi Draper's recent interview on Call Her Daddy. You will NOT want to miss this one.  The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 4th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: American Home Shield - Listeners can get 20% off select plans today! Just visit https://ahs.com/viallfiles to sign up. See https://ahs.com/contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions.  Helix Sleep - Go to https://helixsleep.com/VIALL for 20% off sitewide for their Flash Sale (Sleep Awareness Month) Ritual - Save 25% on your first month at https://ritual.com/VIALL  Merit Beauty - Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their Signature Makeup Bag with your first order at https://meritbeauty.com  Wayfair - Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to https://wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Acorns - Head to https://acorns.com/viall or download the Acorns app to get started. Little Spoon - Try Little Spoon Formula with their 2 can trial pack (Buy 1, Get 1 free - that's $30 for 2 cans), which is great if you're easing into the transition. That's https://littlespoon.com/tryformula  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro/Headlines 42:13 - Arden Joins 1:24:36 - Chris Joins 1:50:50 - Show Recaps Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @theemilydbaker @emilylongeretta @vidabeautybabe @flyleahnicole @susiecevans @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein  

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Val Files. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household and my wonderful gorgeous pregnant wife. How you feeling, babe? How are you feeling? I'm feeling lovely.

I am. We decided that we hate all of our baby names that we had picked out. And so now we're back to the drawing board. Natalie decided. Nope. No, we just, you know. I think the fear is that we'll always think of the actress.

Fair enough. It is a very distinctive name tied to a specific person. And I think we'll always have the story to tell. And that's, you know, but I did have my, my sister, Emily, keeps this, like, very detailed running family tree. Mm-hmm. And I think it's, she started doing it because my mom's mom had one back to, like, five brothers who immigrated together, like, a long family tree. Oh, shit. So she sent me my dad's side, mother and father, and then my mom side mother and father. And the names. Good. Good.

Southern names. I don't know. There's Southern. There's definitely some Southern. There's some Southern. There's some. But there are also some that are like, oh, this is like, who is this person? Maybe we can work with this.

Yeah. No. In 1945, I don't know who this person would be to me, but there is a Pink Bailey. Pink Bailey? Pink Bailey. Okay, Miss Pink Bailey. And she was married to Barter Benton. Pink Bailey and Barter Benton?

Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Yes, she was. Extremely beautiful. My mother's, like, great-grandfather, his name, Young Cornelius. Young Cornelius. Love eating it alive.

There was a brother and a sister, or no, sorry, twin sisters, which this is interesting. Okay. Titi and Tini and Tini. Titi and Tini and Tini. That's so. Tani T-A-W-N-Y? What, spell it again? T-A-W-N-1.

We should name our daughter's B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-A. T-D and T-D and T-D and T-I-N-M-E-M-E. Tiny Jack was her name. Tiny Jack? Tiny Jack. That's really cute. Tiny Jack Hartley is so cute. Tiny Jack Hartley is so cute.

We're still working. Hartley is such a cute name. I know, but I kind of only think of Justin Hartley. There was a Raleigh in there, and we were both like, hmm, Raleigh. And then we kept talking about it. And Nick kept saying Riley. And I was like, no, it's Raleigh. Yeah.

If you can't get it right, then we're going to exit. Then I immediately vetoed it. So like, college is going to suck for her, you know? It's Raleigh. Riley? Raleigh. Raleigh. Do you think Raleigh became a name because people with Southern accents couldn't say Riley?

Probably. Probably. Yeah. Well, it also is like a city in North Carolina. Well, yeah. That was part of it. For sure. That might have been part of it.

But yeah, there was a Raleigh in there. There's some good name. A lot of Lorraine's. Lorraine. Yeah. A lot of Patsies. Well, as always, we got a jam-packed, loaded episode for you. A lot to get into.

Obviously, we are still covering the fallout of the Bachelorette potentially, but unpaused. Maybe not canceled. We don't know. Obviously, is there a chance. We might still see this season. More with the case is unfolding. So, lots to get into. Jesse Draper is getting divorced as that story broke when we, that story broke a couple

days ago and she has recently gone on Call Her Daddy and had a lot to say, which is unfortunately not surprising from one of the things I've heard in the Jordan I got to know, but certainly dark and certainly a lot to discuss. We also have Arden Marine to talk about the finale of Age of Attraction as well as we have Chris from Age of Attraction talking about his time on the show, why he chose to not end up with Leah. Was he there for the right reasons? Hard to say. He is with us. It is a wild and fascinating conversation.

It was kind of giving Alex from Love is Blind and just the sense of like he says so much. Yeah. That you're like, honestly, I have no, like I asked you like what you're doing for supper. You know, like, yeah. Huh? You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything. You're not saying anything. If I have something to say.

It is fascinating to listen to. So there is that. But before we get into all things, Bachelet headlines and Secret Lives of Mormon wives. We do have a very exciting announcement, which we announced last night. The Vothals will be hosting the Age of Attraction reunion. It will be coming out Wednesday night for you audio listeners. It will be same time, same place. For the video, which honestly is a reunion, you are definitely going to want to watch this reunion. A lot of facial expression. It was meant for your eyes. Yeah. We put a lot of effort in.

If you can't wait, obviously you can listen to. We support that. But then go back. Watch it with your own eyes. It's an extended cut, exclusive details. We might have shot not even necessarily just in this room. And we will be airing it live in a way on YouTube at 7 p.m. Eastern, 4 p.m. Pacific on Wednesday.

And apparently I might be like, what, in the chat, something like that. Maybe. Maybe. We will reveal more information as it comes out, but we are very excited to bring you the reunion. We do have the trailer of the reunion for your viewing pleasure. Let's go. Welcome to the Age of Attraction Season 1 reunion. How many couples are still together?

Raise your hands. Looks like Fyfer's not here. Does anyone know where she is? I don't really feel comfortable like airing this out. All right, well, that's why we're here. John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment? What was it about, John? Speak your true. You took that from me.

I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit. I don't want to cry. If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hands. Ooh. You guys are, in fact, engaged. I don't deserve to date someone who texts me. I feel disgusting. disgusting with you.

No, it's not easy. Libby, how'd you feel? God, I expect to get emotional. I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay. Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those difficult moments? In my mind, you were literally like my husband. Like, there is nothing else.

I cried so hard. An area that I've been weak, she's able to help me get through. Has anyone had an issue with your age difference? I almost didn't come out this week to L.A. You're like gaslighting a little bit. I guess by anyone, Teresa. Ooh. And it was really, really sad watching that back.

It was. Guys, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just asking you. You hear what I'm saying. And I'll speak for you. I never said that. Four days in, I wanted to go home. Tell him how it is now. Why you laughing, Derek?

That wasn't that at all. Well, shit. Like, that's something that I probably needed to know. You don't want to say anything? I don't know. No. You honestly did it, like, Leah. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in my life.

Period. Period. Have you met his daughter? I have not. Why? Yeah. Why not? And he was yelling from afar at y'all to start?

No. Absolutely not. How close would you. And you want to air all of our dirty laundry? Let's do it. Is there a chance of you guys to get back together? Ooh, it looks so good, you guys. And as they say, period.

As they say. You know, shout out. Shout out to Kyle and Justin and Trayvon. The close of episode, we will get into why. I mean, Fyfer is on TikTok. We did locate her. You did. She'd be posted.

She's posted. I like the stuff she's posted. But lots to get into, lots to unpack. Really, we were as fascinated, you know, even as host of the show, fascinated about and wanting to get an update on kind of where are they now. And obviously, we unpack a lot of who's together, who's not, why people are still together and why they're still not. The finale is out now.

Well, in case you haven't watched it. I don't know. Before we get into all of our Bachelorette and Mormon wives headlines, don't forget that Valfa Plus is ad-free and available now with some amazing content. We certainly dive into and unpack the drama that is going on in the reality TV space and all your favorite shows focused a lot on all the Bachelorette, drama, and Secret Lives drama as well as Age of Attraction. And also your pop-back show where you get in to talk about

more on why Chapel Rhone hates children amongst a bunch of other things and get your favorite updates from your favorite as ethnic callers with your update specials all available on Valfiles Plus just go to Vyafiles.com to sign up and also don't forget Vowalz is going live on May 4th for another Netflix

as a joke festival. We have the new cast of Temptation Island which is coming up in not too long. So if you are looking to get messy, wild, and fun and watch people I get to know some people who Are gonna fight on a beach Who want to

Challenge their relationship by Swapping That will be a fun night out So bring your partner Bring your friends Bring your friends, bring yourself Tickets are available On the blog dot com

Yeah Tickets are available At the Ticket Master link in our bio Sure Nothing Like what's your cocktail Yeah your chemical cocktail Yeah I mean

You really just have to like push through. And and when you're pregnant, you're like double the congest, like, because you have so much fluid in your body that like you are. You're in flame. You just have to like raw dog life like that. Yeah. And I actually ask Nick, um, I have like something going on with like my skin is like being weird. And then also my left ear is like very dry. And I was like, Nick, what is happening to me? What are these babies doing? Why is my left earlobe dry? Maybe just one of them wants to hear you speak. You know, but it's just the one that's on the left. I will say anytime I've had conversations with Natalie about pregnancy, sometimes it does feel like we're having a conversation about the substance.

I'm like, wait, what happens? Yeah. I am scared for the day that I get the anal spasms that I got with River. That one ended me. And I was home alone when that happened. And I am scared for that day to circle back. Power through. And you're pregnant.

It's like imagine being sick and you can't take meds. And then you're all so pregnant. Literally. I'm so sorry. We had another awesome time yesterday. They look different. You know, you can tell. Well, we officially found out that they're fraternal.

For the longest time, we thought they were identical. And then finally we did this blood test. Turns out they are fraternal. And now we're like, they actually have completely different noses. Like they are, one looks just like river. And then one, we're assuming, could possibly look like me. I don't know.

Nick's like that. Look at the schnauzer on that one. I'm like, well, that one's supposed to be mine. And he's like, well, baby B is my baby. He's kind of like that looks like my mom. Yeah, so it's been, it's been very fun. Did y all see the Justin Timberlake DUI video? Yes.

Sorry. Yeah, I don't, I feel like, is there a new news here? No, it was just as embarrassing. as I thought it would be, and I understand why he was, like, trying to keep that from the bubble. Okay. I'm on a world tour.

He didn't say... I'm on a world tour. Just say you're a singer. Huh? They knew who he was. The world tour is the best part. Like, not tour. I mean, I'm a...

The world tour. This is going to ruin the world tour. He's like, why are you a New Hampshire? He didn't really... He didn't really... Why is that a hard question? He was drunk. And he was drunk.

So then don't be surprised when you get treated like a normal person and have to stay overnight. Yeah. You're more just sitting here. It's more, it's hard to answer a question like that. By the cops? Yeah. When you're about to get arrested, you're like, this is my whole resume.

Like, this is everything I've been doing. Did you guys see the woman that was with him in the video? There's a couple different videos, actually. I saw him being pulled over in the truck. And there's a woman with him. Like his, like, rapper, like, he was following someone. Yeah. And she was like, she gets out of the car.

And she's like, do you know who this is? She's like, that is Justin Timber. Like, he's funny. Like, I will say, it's crazy. In the history of like body cam celebrity videos, I honestly do think that that's 10 times more embarrassing is like when they have pulled the do you know who I am and the cops like, I genuinely do not give a fuck. When he's walking the straight line and he's like, you know these are really hard tests. Yeah. I have a question for you guys.

Do you think if this video would have gotten released when he got his DUI, people would have. maybe had a little bit more empathy for him because he was giving like, I'm doing my best here. And he kind of seems like a person versus just the empty quote of this is going to ruin the tour and mugshot. You know what I mean? We didn't have much to work off of and those were the only two things that maybe if we saw him being like, you know these are really hard.

They would be like they would baby girl I'm on the internet. Did it in fact ruin the tour? Yes. Yeah. They canceled the whole thing? Google. Was it put on pause or was it canceled? It probably was put on pause.

And he only stayed overnight and like, D.U.I. In the world of rock star world, I don't know. I think D.U.I. You have the like overnight in jail and a bunch of fines, but I don't think you're like. It doesn't stop you from. Not community service or things. I'm pretty sure he kept singing. Yeah. I think I remember the videos from said tour.

Yeah. Fortunately. What? He couldn't drive to tour. I think he was canceling. I think he canceled some dates. Okay. Is.

yep i remember that video wish i didn't well speaking of canceled or put on pause a lot of discourse going on now trying to figure out if we are actually going to have a chance to see taylor frankie paul's season of the bachelorette a lot of speculation a lot of rumors i don't know much more than y'all know out there i i do know that i've talked to a lot of people who know more about this stuff more than me and know people in positions of power. And a lot of people I've talked to have suspected or guessed, you know, it's just a guess in their part. But most of the former producers and such

that I know close to the situation feel like, the quote I heard the most was, they'll find a way. Yeah. They'll find a way to air it. Yeah. That's what I heard to you. I heard that like Hulu was going to air it just by itself for a minute there.

I mean, they're losing so much money. Sure. And I know we all. want to see it. But at this point, it feels extra icky. Oh, I like, I don't want to watch it, but I also understand why so many people do. But if you were going to air it, air it on ABC, air it how you were going to air it. But don't make it this whole thing. The reality is, though, is ABC is a network television show that like, you know, kind of the old ways of television, the FCC, and it's just a different, there's a different expectation. There's a different audience.

we now know with streamers. Like you go on Netflix in any show, like you can say fuck, you know? Like you can't say that on network television. Who loses the same way? And it's just like, again, like we talked a lot about if you want to break down of the whole situation, Tuesday's episode, we had Emily D. Baker,

former deputy district attorney for L.A. County, along with Emily Longeretta from Variety to really break down this whole situation, if you're asking, like, how did we get to this point? Why did we ever get to this point? here. We answer a lot of those questions on Tuesday's episode of reality recap. But as we discussed, I mean, again, like, you know, there's a lot of, we have a lot of questions about like, how did this even get greenlit, secret lives? But it did. Okay. And they chose to make this show

like reality TV, you know, like where you have a bachelor show, reality TV. And it's like, yeah, it's reality TV. It's centered around this kind of very, you know, fictional fantasy world. that's kind of not believable and, you know, it's very, it's very staged. We're, you know, Jesse, which we will get into recently went on Caller Daddy and talked about like if they pick up cameras and they continued and they get another season, she will have to talk about her very messy divorce. You know, like this is a show that, like, they have leaned into the quote unquote authenticity. And then again, that begs the question of like how much they lean into it, you know, did they protect their cast? You know, was there any,

Is there anything off limits when it comes to what they're willing to film or air? Because up into this point, it really doesn't seem like there has been anything off limits. As we discussed, it was to us, as bachelor fans, it's crazy that they filmed Dakota walking to Taylor's house to spend the night the night before she was going to become the Bachelorette. But like, that's what happened. And like, they filmed it and then they aired it. And if the executives at Hulu just kind of double down and say, hey, this is our show,

we won an Emmy for it. Then I feel like they'll be able to kind of justify as dark as it is, as much criticism as they've gotten, like as Emily Longoretta mentioned, people are going to watch. I think that's my question for you guys is do you think that Disney, as a company that famously loves to make money is going to eventually make the decision to release this

because of how much, Like everyone's going to watch this, to be honest. If you look at the narratives online, like, everyone is like release this. You've created so much intrigue, regardless of the ethics of the situation. There's been so much intrigue about this season that's been released. So it's like, Disney is going to make, like, the amount of views that this would get for them from a business perspective. And if they already were like not really caring about or being selectively, like, unaware of things that were going on, wouldn't they just release it? My guess, it's going to be centered around the reality that, like, when we talked on Tuesday, like, the question is, how could they have cast her as a Bachelorette? That's not the question. It's how do they greenlight this show that it was centered around this domestic dispute? And you can, like, question that. But the reality is they did. And we all watched it and we all became fans of these people. And this video, as horrific as it is, is the video from 2023 in a situation that Taylor has spoken about. Taylor has apologized about. Dakota.

has spoken about it. So more and more people are having that conversation about like, you know, we knew this already. Now more and more information is coming out. Again, we still don't know what happened a few weeks ago when production was shut down. So that's definitely new information. We did hear from Emily Langerada that she had talked to some executive that suggested that they didn't think it was that big of a deal and they were fully expecting to pick up cameras sooner than later and that video came out. But my guess is that conversation, if there's a chance it gets aired. It will be the discourse in it around,

wait, what, like we were planning, we, we casted her knowing this. Now, you know, knowing about the video,

I don't know, but that, that will be the big question. And as the dust settles, well, some of the vitriol and anger kind of diminished that will allow people

just focus on, they want to watch the show. And, you know, it's, I don't, yeah, that's usually how it works. I mean,

they will definitely edit most of the episodes. There is, which, There's that as well. Yeah. Like change. Yeah. Well, that will be a question.

To your point, they have that option. They can change the edit. And as we talked about on Tuesday, like it seems like they were already, like it didn't feel like they had her consideration, her mental health or her well-being in mind at all as they set her up to be the bachelorette.

Now that they're being called out for that, will that also change the edit? Or will they just not give a fuck? It does make you think about just your point, Justin, makes you really think about how much control producers and editors have over these narratives. Specifically in The Bachelor, it's like, yeah, you're right, focusing on love. And then if The Bachelor were to, like, deconstruct itself for a season, it's so insane.

But it's also really interesting. And I feel icky for being interested, you know? I don't know. I mean, if they... It's already been filmed. they edit her like if they give her a villain edit? Well, I don't know what they're planning on doing. All I know is what I saw in season four of Mormon wives and just knowing how they, and again,

but people have to, you know, those aren't the same producers. The people who make Mormon wives, they don't give a fuck about the Bachelorette. They don't care. It's not their show. They don't make any money from it. Other than the fact that they are making one of their biggest stars, they're, they're, are allowing her. They had to get permission. So, but they don't really care about her bachelor storyline.

So I say with confidence, there were a lot of bachelor producers who watched season four of Mormon wives who were just as shocked as we were to see what happened and what was aired and what was shown. So they could have been planning on giving her a good edit. But like what they, what we saw in season four, us knowing as fans and what old producers have told me, like, they, they ruined her season already before it started. So, like, you can get a good edit, but, like, she didn't get a good edit on Mormon wives. And what's fascinating about it,

it's two different production companies with two different interests. But to Justin's point, they can change things up into this point, and they can, you know, play around with things. There's also reports rumors that are being talked about, floated that Mora Higgins was being discussed.

People are saying that Mara Higgins. is going to be a live Bachelorette. Again, this was a rumor. It feels so conspiracy theory. I mean, I'm sure she did.

I'm sure she, you know, why wouldn't she want to, like that's a fun rumor. It's not a true rumor. It's not a true rumor. Miranda. Miranda was never a true rumor.

Like, me too. Maybe so, but like, again. That's a whole new season. Even if they did a live one. Casting men.

That's, you know, I think now that's, pre-production, baby. Now there's a live rumor because like, you know, as we pointed out on on Tuesday, they already filmed that season.

You know, if you, you know, first it was like, oh, they're going to cast Miranda and Layla. It's just like, well, so they're going to reshoot the whole season? That's months long, you know, like, they have to. So even if it's live, they have to recast it. They have to find new men or what, they're just going to reuse the old men after their traumatic experience and just do another live show. Like also, it's not Love Island. It doesn't work that way. They don't have the team in place to pull something like that off.

I don't think now would be the time to revolutionize Bachelor production schedules The show In two weeks Yeah It's just like A silly made up rumor

That being said Moran Higgins Would be a fun bachelorette I would fucking love it She would be a fun bachelorette She would be so good But yeah no I just don't I don't know that

I think you need to leave I think I think there's the last The final rose That's good Whoa, okay. Felt like she was in the room. Are she talking about five?

Like how she was before she was with Dakota. She also confirmed that they all knew about the tape. They just hadn't seen it yet, like until the police and everything this dropped recently. But yeah, she was like, we were all like aware because they were filming the season when the incident happened. And so the whole point of continuing on was that it is a reality TV show and furthering, you know, what is actually going on in their lives. So that's why they continued on, and they did talk about it during season one. Yeah. But that's what's interesting because when we had Emily Longeretta, she had told us that she had

talked to some Hulu executives who insisted that they hadn't seen the video or didn't know about the video. And the didn't know part is very hard to believe. Yeah. And I honestly think if that's not true, if they were not being totally forthright, and maybe there's a lot of executives, there's executives who come. could have, there's executives who worked for the show, who weren't working for the show when the show started.

So there's, could be that. And plausible deniability. But at this point, they would have been better off just being like, yes, we investigated. As hard as it is to watch and as horrifying as it is, you know, that we. There's no world in which they would say that. But they're going to have to, if they're going to air it, they can't. Stand by your star or don't put it on TV. If episode one.

season one of Mormon wives, a senator around this actual domestic dispute, and you chose to not only move forward, but air it and show footage, police camps. Literally. Just, you might as well just own that you did an investigation. You know, like Taylor was arrested for that situation. The police saw the footage. Whatever you think about that situation, she was allowed to live her life and be with her children. Like, you know, that, like, they would have had, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that was her life that she was allowed to live and then they filmed this show, you know, and so if you might as well just, if you're going to lead with it, what, you might as well own it. That's kind of what I, I think some of my issues with it is, is that it's kind of like this, like,

weird morality thing because I'm like, they talked about it, but I don't think to the fullest extent. So it's kind, and, but even then it was very transparent that it was a domestic by and that she got charged for aggravated assault. So I'm just kind of like, I don't know if it's just because of how many other people there are in the Mormon wives cast and whatnot, that it kind of just gets like downplayed or like, was it up front? I'm not, I can't really fully remember. But it is kind of weird because it's like, we were all fully aware of what happened. But I think obviously not knowing that this tape existed and then seeing the tape after the fact, obviously it's very easy hindsight to be like, oh my God, I can't believe that they did that. But like, again, I can believe that executives and people who make big decisions

did not see this tape or that her castmates hadn't seen this tape, but they knew that it existed. Here's another fascinating question. I mean, again, you can't ignore the timing. With the fact that this tape got released three days before the Bacheloret premiere, they were going to have to cancel, put on pause, whatever you want to call it. Because again, a lot of people who saw that video, like the cognitive dissidents of like, it's just like, oh, this is what just happened. We can't possibly move forward. But what if this video came out, let's say, season three of Mormon wives, of season two or whatever way back when. I don't think it would have been a huge story.

It would have been as controversial as it was. And we would have had just been as equally as disgusted and horrified by what we saw in this video. I don't think it would have stopped Mormon wives. I don't know if, I don't know, you know, because they, I think with it being the Bachelorette is a very different decision-making tree, so to speak.

You also have a lot of people who are fans of Bachelor who never really watch Mormon wives who have like different feelings towards what they want from their reality TV stars and different like moral you know feelings regarding that so it's like you bring in that audience obviously there's going to be a way bigger backlash if it's just Mormon wise fans again the Mormon wise fans know this and that's the reason they're watching it to be honest like or I mean that's a general statement they they certainly knew about the situation yeah but I I do think yeah I don't think it would have been a decision like that video came out and four hours

later they paused or canceled the season. And so I said it's like, that's where it's like it's the whole, the whole situation I think is complicated for me too. It's because it's like knowing the toxicity between Dakota and Taylor and the fact that he goes out of his way to ruin things. I don't think it's by surprise that all this information came out within the timing of Bachelorette. But then it also doesn't excuse what we saw in that video and the behavior between the two of them. And if people know that it's that bad, like these two people need to be. separated. Like I don't, you know. That's the thing that Emily Baker said is that in these situations, like, there is a protective stay away order put in place for all of these cases. Like that's like a typical process. It's like if this is going to happen once, there's a likelihood that it'll happen again. So like here's a stay away from each other order. Like if you have to drop off kids, there's like this, you know, they put in whatever. But that was waived in their case. They didn't have that because obviously they had to.

film a show together. So it's like... And that's what makes it so ugly because again, the video is horrifying. We all know that. I think Taylor was equally as horrified by that situation.

We had her on this couch. It was really hard to hear her tell this story and it was hard to... I mean, it was just sad. It was just a dark conversation. But the Taylor, we've gotten to know as a person. Like, yeah.

Like, you know, sometimes you meet people and there's like, there's a darkness with this person. You're like, you know, even when they're charming, there's like, You're like, I don't know, something's off. And then there are people you meet who, like, maybe have some demons.

When they're in bad situations, it's, there's things go off the rail. But, like, when you meet them, there's a goodness in them. There's a, you know, there's a good person. You see them, like, bring joy to people's lives. And that was the experience we had with Taylor, Frankie Paul. And, you know, it's just, it's, and that's when you hear Jesse talk about Taylor and what we might see with the season of the Bachelorette. It's just, and that's what makes it so sad is because in our experience, we met a person who has a really, at her core, a good heart.

This sounds like this was a person who's overcome adversity after adversity. Well, we learned about her biological father in this season. You know, and so, and then you have this, this toxic relationship that got really dark and really scary. And instead of separating them, they were encouraged at, at best. into situations that only created volatility and danger for everyone involved. And that's what makes it so fucked up. Yeah. And to your point, Jesse during the interview,

was talking about, and the opening was talking about Taylor and how she has a heart of gold. And, like, because there was a lot of rumors going around that, like, these women don't want to film with her anymore or, like, are abandoning her. And that's just very much not the case. She talks to her every day. And that she was saying that she was just like,

I'm just sad that, like, this is what, like, Taylor's being reduced too, essentially. I really hope that she gets whatever help she needs. And I hope right now, my hope for her is that her inner circle, whoever they are, have her best interest in mind. And she's getting the love and support that she really needs. But I also don't think it's a coincidence that like, you know, birds of a feather. So I'm like even hearing the stuff about Jordan that's coming out on Jesse's behalf, I'm just, you know, it's not surprising that Dakota and Jordan are the best of friends. Very similar in tactics. And Jesse had shared a story about right before she was, maybe the day before she left him officially or like said she wanted a divorce, that he was

blackmailing her saying that he was going to post something on TikTok. So she was chasing him around to try to get his phone from him and that he pulled out a phone to record her. And like saying like, are you going to do what Taylor did? And pretty much am I going to have to call the police antagonizing her where I'm just like, okay, so then when you see these videos and whatnot, it's just, yeah, it's what happened before the video started. A lot of the times when you are in toxic and abusive relationships, things can be recorded out of context and be used against people to make them look in a type of way. And that's what I'm saying.

And I'm not excusing Taylor's behavior by any means, but I'm just saying that I do know that a lot of, you know, interpersonal violent relationships like that, that people know what they're doing in order to portray somebody in a different type of way. So it's, that's why I said, I think it's just such a very. delicate situation. I think it's kind of, it's very gross that to me that anybody would know that what she's been through and then think that it's a wise decision to continue filming with said partner. Dakota was not necessary for Secret Lives and Mormon Wives. Nobody appreciates Dad Dad Talks presence in my in Secret Lives Mormon Wives. So, you know, and then again, you have

these like conversations with like Zach and Whitney and all of this stuff where I'm just like, I don't know. I just think the men being involved in Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. But also keep in mind, like Dakota got to go on Banderpump Villa and be a character there and probably got paid for it. And, you know, like... I think that showing up on that trip to support the Dancing with the Stars. And he always knew that video. And we know if without, there's no gray area on, he knew what was in that video. He knew that video existed.

Even the idea for going back to Jordan, that Jordan would be blackmailing Jesse about anything going on and with Marciano, but yet you're going to put yourself in Vanderpump Villa to be around somebody that you think would. having an affair, your wife's talking to fare with. As far as the accusation that Jordan was, that Jesse had to get a new phone number and Jesse was fearful that Jordan was like,

had access to her information. I know is true because like I, before the announcement of their divorce, I got a text from Jesse being like, this is my new number. I'm moving forward with a divorce. And like she had, when we interviewed Jordan and Jesse, I'll never forget when we got done that her like, I went in the back room and her mom was like just bawling and crying and like thanking us for the opportunity to let jesse tell her

story but like she she desperately wanted jesse to get out of this relationship and it was just like really it was really sad to hear her mom just you know talk about that and it's it's again for anyone going through these very messy things when kids are involved you know like how many kids did jordan jessie have together you know like that's just you know it's it's so heartbreaking and you just wonder why, sometimes you, well, why did you stay so long? Or, you know, people will ask questions like that. So it's like, because it's not, you know, this is a father of your kids, you know, you, this is the family you built with someone. It's not an easy decision, you know. And also somebody that just may not be, that seems like a nice dude, you know, in public or whatever to come to

find out that this is what her living situation was like and that this man was like pretty much controlling her life, making her life hell, threatening to blackmail, like, where I'm just like, okay, there's a lot of reasons. And then we saw at the end of season four, her going over her pre-up and then realizing that certain things weren't signed and not knowing what that would equate to when she's worked so hard. He hasn't been working the last four or five years. That's always just fucking gross for him to even try.

It's such a comeback. Well, the whole thing was that she told him that she wanted a divorce. And then he went while she was in L.A. to file to like, because he wanted to blindsiter and then claimed that, uh, he claimed that he thought it was going to be private. And then she was like, you gave them a statement. Like, he literally attached a statement to said divorce.

Yes. Says a lot that you know that she knows things about you. And like, I just don't know why you wouldn't be like amicable about it, especially, he gets under my skin. But it's also giving like, it's giving that the men of dad talk are in like, are talking. And it's not a coincidence. This is all happening at the same time. And it's not a coincidence that Jordan was making those alleged threats to just.

and it's like people really do need to connect the dots here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I think it's clear that, like, I mean, it's really just, it seems to be Dakota and Jordan mostly. I know a lot of people have thoughts about Zach or, you know, these other guys are messy. But, like, to me, like, you know,

thinking about the drama you see on reality TV, like I judge other men by how they treat their partners, you know, how they treat their women partners. And, like, there's a clear track record. between Jordan and Dakota about how they do that. I mean, it's one thing to not like Zach, but it seems like Zach has really been there for Jen and a good partner to Jen for all his faults.

Like, and so I mean, I did, I find it disturbing this morning. I saw him post something with Jordan, I thought was really tasteless, like leaning into the reality TV villain at it. Like, dude, you're not a, you're not a reality TV villain. You're an emotional terrorist. You're a human villain.

You're a bad person who's like, You're someone who's about to try to go after the mother of your children because you care more about public perception than you do about maintaining a healthy relationship with the mother of your children for your children. I don't even think it's about, it's not even that, but just his treatment in the relationship that we now know of how he belittled her, how he. Even the creation of dad talks as so much because it's just like you couldn't let her have her own thing and you thought that this was something that just like, oh, well, if I do this, it's going to be equally as successful. No. Like it's just like I just think that there's an ego beyond. of this man who like instead of working or doing something

with his time it was like I'm going to be envious of my wife my wife is the breadwinner so I'm going to do everything but be supportive. That's at least what I saw. I'm sure I wonder if Jesse was reminded watching Love is Blind of being like oh yeah my jerk ass husband did that to me too.

What is it? Nonsense. I believe it. Yeah, I'm not shocked. Mm-hmm. Not shocked. And she said, doesn't justify why she did it, but she's like, I'm sure that had something playing in the back of your mind.

And that he'll probably deny it, but. I think he already has been denying in comments. The dark side of dad talk is definitely trying to paint themselves as victims. Especially with the Jordan one, you see what's happening with the Dakota and Taylor Frankie Paul. And it literally looks like Jordan is trying to follow that, what looks like a playbook. I don't know why because it's not working for Dakota.

So I don't like, that's what I'm saying. I'm just like, it's just kind of crazy to me with like the seasons having aired. And I'm just like your entire behavior is documented. And then you think that you can write a narrative against. Well, I will say, I mean, yeah, in this moment, things may turn. We more information come out. But yeah, I think if you're Jordan, you are really hoping. Yeah, you're hoping for a similar outcome.

It seems like that's what Jordan wants. I know it's disgusting. It's really gross. But we're going to lighten the. mood when we bring in Art and Marine in here to talk about the finale of Age of Attraction. And then following that conversation, we do have Chris from Age of Attraction, which is a conversation you definitely do not want to miss. But up next, Arden Marine, an age of attraction finale. Refresh your space and make your home work better for you with Wayfair. Get back into an at-home

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That's me. Welcome back to the show. Hi! Yay! We are excited to have you back. I am thrilled to be here. Last time we were here, we were promoting your Netflix show, which number two on Netflix, Netflix family.

Congratulations. Number two, season number two. Oh, we officially had season number two. We have a number two, and I feel like you guys are going to get one. I can feel it. And you're having babies. We're in two babies. Come on two, two, two, two.

It's two, too, too, too, everywhere. Oh, my gosh. We will have announces, but we are airing the reunion for age of attraction. Wow. I'm excited to watch it. on the vial files. Oh my God, that's fun. So it would be wherever you get your podcast,

it'll be on YouTube. It's something you're definitely going to want to watch. But if you want to listen to it, then watch it, you know. I just started having feelings, hearing about it. It's as juicy as you hoped. But we're excited to have you to talk about the finale. I'm honored and thrilled. I feel really chosen.

This is thrilling. So where do you want to start? Okay, I want to start. Let me just pull up my cheat sheet of the names because I'm obsessed with everybody. I want to start with Terrival. Teresa and John. Okay. I, okay, here's my, I liked them. I felt like, I like them. I'm glad they're together. I was, I want to start with the overall impression. You guys got four together. Yeah. Like four out of five, 80% success rate for that alone, you should get a five season pickup

versus every other thing. I mean. The queen has spoken. Yeah. I feel like the success rate was so high with an engagement. With an engagement. Not the one I saw coming. Me. either. A wild engagement at that. A wild of all the ones. My friends will write about you, she says. I should have trusted my god. Dude, a wild. And that's not a problem for him. He's like, I'm just going. He's going to keep going. He's not like, wait, no, wait. He's like a bull charging the red flags. We watched that proposal, like that in real time. And we had no idea it was going on. And we were just like, what? And then like, oh my God. No, you. It's, Proposed.

You didn't know. But you didn't know. Help him get a ring? As hosts. I know. We're not playing the Leo Lane. Okay. Okay.

For respect. Respect. He had other people he went to. Okay. Respect. We knew he had a ring in hand. But you thought he might not use it after hearing. We weren't sure how he was going to use it or if he was going to use it.

When he took off her promise ring, we were like, oh my God, there, he's, he's, he's. So let's start with this one. Let's start with this one. Because, okay. Vanessa and Logan. Vanessa and Logan. look, here's what I want to say. And I'm always really, these are all human beings.

And I'm rooting for everybody on Earth. It's hard to be, it's complicated to be a person on Earth. We all come with certain baggage. Like, we all, we all have certain quirks of how we interact. We are imperfect. We are perfectly imperfect. I'm imperfect. Truly, it's the fact that people end up together.

I'm always rooting for people. And that's why, even on the podcast, like that I'm willing to accept this person. Like, I'm not a cynical person. I don't hate watch things. I truly get. excited, even for proposals that I may not feel healthy. I'm still clapping and happy that they're getting, I'm a, I love that. I also wanted to say to her, and look, we've all been there where we get nervous and we start talking, okay? As a gal, I sometimes, I can get nervous.

And it's interesting, one of the things I like about reality shows is when you see yourselves, or maybe sides of yourself that you don't like as much. Totally. So when she was nervously introducing her to her friends and she wouldn't let him talk. That was tough to watch, though. And I felt like it was a heightened version of, it was hard to watch. Of like she would ask him a question. And I felt like he was fully justified. And at that moment, it felt like the problem isn't the age difference.

It's like, just caught. Even if a little fake it you may get calm. Yeah. Just present a little chill. Even if inside you're freaking out, pinch your hand. Take a breath. Just stop talking. Yeah.

Like the word, wait, why am I talking? Just take a fucking second. Just take a second. And we've all been there. Yeah. Yeah. Even like right now, I'm talking too much. I'm going to stop in a second.

No, I love it. But I felt like, I felt like, so then watching, it felt like maybe they weren't the healthiest together and her friend's concerns. I feel like it takes two to tango in all relationships. They just didn't feel like the right pairing. It is valid that like when you meet friends for the first time and like you are doing that little back and forth thing that you know is arguing and not cute. and you're like still doing it in front of the front.

Like you don't have the awareness to be like to stop. Let me not respond. Like when Logan's like, are you going to let me talk or are you going to just going to keep talking? Like he doesn't have the awareness to be like, let me not say that right now. Yeah. And let her just let me wait until she's done. You know, it's like maybe. When I did think that maybe they were compatible was when they kind of came home and they debriefed.

And I was like couldn't be more turned off by that conversation. I was like, this basements were not flooding across. Los Angeles. Dryed up the dam. There was a full, uh, Sahara experience happening. And then what he said was, why don't we just enjoy the moment? And came onto her and I said, I liked it. I did too, but I was like, couldn't be me.

No. I would have said, no, thank you. I'll be sleeping on the couch or you can or whatever. But that was not for me, but it was for them. So I was like, well, maybe they are compatible. Can I ask you guys a question? And my friend, my best friend, Lauren Lopkis is also obsessed with the show. And I was with her yesterday.

And we were debating when we saw the apartment tower and we heard the pillow talk of somebody saying women are an oven and men are. Who was that? Vanessa and Logan. That was them. I didn't think that was them. Okay. What was the same? That was them.

They were struggling with the intimacy level. She won a Fourth of July. He was Memorial Day. All her friends were getting all going to count down to all up and down, Vancouver. The cooves was getting cooved all over in Vancouver. It was rough that she was having to explain like how the women's body works to her younger partner. You know, I thought Logan was sweet. He did.

He handled it well. And you know what? They aired him not lasting very long. And I'm sure that that hurt his ego. I would have. I also thought he was sweet. And I liked his mom. I felt like.

I'm just going to say as a human female And again, watching of like, you gotta hide that need. Like you gotta present, you gotta contain it. No, I know you're cut off from your family and friends. You gotta seem a little mysterious. There has to be a little mystery.

A little chase of like, oh, I don't know, maybe. Like there's no, the demand, like let him come towards you a little bit rather than like, you want to turn a man off? be like, why aren't you getting at it immediately right now? Like, just let them make a... Yeah.

I've definitely turned a man off like that. There's definitely... My favorite. I love to make a side comment, you know? It's like... Yeah. Why you didn't want to... Oh, you didn't like that?

I like a guy that can get at it. I do. I like a guy that can get at it. I do. We like it when we can get at it, too. I know. But I understand every once in a while. I know it's tender.

I know it's tender. a fella. And by the way, a woman can fake it in a guy, like there's, like, and I understand it's a tender for a fella thing. And like that guy can get in their head. The guys get tired and like, I know it can be hard for a fella or not. Right. My, my beautiful, sexy, gorgeous wife is pregnant with twins. Very difficult. But she's also like, it'll be like, oh, I'm so uncomfortable. Like, oh, this is constantly talking about all, understandably. all the things going on. There's three people in that scene.

And then like later that day, it'll be like, why didn't she make a move? Okay. And I'm like. I thought I was being respectful. What? It's like I thought you were in pain. I didn't know. I had a free pass.

You know, you want them to be making the move. I don't know, it's supposed to pounce. You know, I got to. I don't. But I want the thought of the pounce. Yeah. She wants to want to. I want to deny your pounce.

You want to feel the pounce. So when in doubt, pounce it out so you could be like, hey, hey. Yeah, I'm not anything, but you want, you want the pounds to come. Oh my God, you're so obsessed with me. You just like can't leave me alone. But instead he, like, walks past me in the shower and like doesn't look twice. And I'm like, are you serious?

Like I'm standing here. Naked. No, no, I understand. Literally. I understand. I understand. Look, I also do think sometimes a fella, there's all different ways of fella can wild out. You're like, sir.

You did not just, sir. Like, and a good guy. There's a way, a lot of ways like a good guy who thinks it's just such a given that he likes his lady. There's a ways that a good guy can wild out without even realizing that any woman would be like, wait, what? Listen, I get it. Sir, you did not just say such and such right after this. Like, for example, Nick wore a pair of my pregnancy jeans that I had with River. He wore a pair of them out on Saturday, Sunday.

and they were falling off of his body. Wait, you wore pregnancy. You wore, like Joey, like Joey and friends when he wore the pregnancy turkey. She has these vintage Levi jeans. They're definitely like men. They don't have like a pregnancy pouch. No, no, no, no. They like sit very low rise on me.

I really like the wash. Sure. And I was like, I want to try these on. And then they sagged off of his body for the rest of the day. That's cute. Now this morning, I was like, oh, I recently have bought another pair of some pregnancy jeans that I already had, bought them in a different color. Sure. I was like, I'm just going to throw those on.

Put them on. I'm like, oh, my God, these fit, like, better than I thought they would. Right. Check it. They are his genes. I see. So if you wanted to get into my brain currently, which is a very scary place to be in. Let's hear it.

Let's hear it. That was just like not what I needed this morning. You know what I'm saying? After watching my jeans fall off of him all weekend. Oh, I see. And then watching his jeans fit me. I see. Kind of snug.

Perfectly. Okay. I understand that. I'm staying off sugar. Okay. Okay. He gave me a toy. Okay.

Yeah. He's deciding to stay off sugar while making me an extra large bowl of cocoa Krispies. I see. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Can I just say? No, literally. No, she fires. She slay all day. Like, uh-la-la-la, what are you wearing? Call the press. All of it.

Like here for it. Hot, hot, super hot. So hot. And women, even on our best days, can be in the feels. For sure. And I can see, yes. So, yes. So point being, look, look, there's a whole situation.

And I just want to say for the indoor, outdoor voice of the head of our queen who was trying to. Loud. Which she was saying. She's loud. Say it. Don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it.

Just like the control factor of just. hands off the wheel. Like, if you ask somebody to do something, give him a chance to execute it, even if they do it wrong. And he couldn't win. No, he was annoying to and then he snapped at her. Going back to Vanessa and Logan. Yes, it was Vanessa and Logan. It was like a full, it was like a fully watching reactor reactor, reactor, watching this, maybe they're not the right fit. And yet here, and then we get to the proposal where he said, give me the commitment, bring back. And I'm like, what are you going to do with that? You're like, First of all, you didn't buy that.

Like, are you going to go get somebody else to give that to? Then, where is this going? Then she was like, you're right. Everyone was right about you. You and then. What were they right about? Exactly. What did you talk?

Wait, I have questions now. Exactly. And then she was all in. He proposed. Well, I loved him. I was happy for them. Technically, he said, will you do life with me? Okay.

Yeah, did he propose? I was curious, was that in a proposal? I think for a TV show, that's a proposal. We took it as a proposal. He was on a knee. I did too. He was on a knee. You can't.

Well, you do life with me. Yeah. That's all the holidays. That's very 2026. We don't need to get married to live together. No labels. Yes. Situation ship for life.

Don't judge me. Don't judge me. Don't shame me. Yes. It's like, hey, I want to be in a relationship. But we're doing life together. Dude, I would get out of here. Yeah.

But you're paying all of our bills, right? Like, we're doing life together. We're doing life together. I look. We went on vacation. I did, I mean, I did enjoy that they got proposed. I was still happy for them. I'm worried about it.

I'm happy for her that she got what she wanted. Well, tune in next week to the reunion to get an update on where are they now. Exactly. I'm actually dying to know. I'm so naive. I just assume it was happily ever after. Well, that's what I'm so excited about the reunion because like. Have you already filmed it?

We have already filmed it. Because there's just a lot, you know, there's a lot to unpack. And like, you know, you could say it's somewhat easy to leave a reality TV show in a relationship. I could always break up the next day. Oh my God, I wish I could go through one. We filmed this last April, May. Oh, okay. So it's been almost a year.

It's been almost a year. So lots to unpack with these couples. Mary, what did you think of them? I think they're cute and I think a lot of their issues, I kind of let slide past because I think they're kind of wholesome when they're together. There's something about them that just like, I don't know. There's a charm between the two of them. Maybe if they could calm down without cameras on them,

and like... Yeah. Like... They seemed in love. Did they? Yeah. I hope so. I don't know.

Here was my fear about them. Mm-hmm. More than the other couples that are there. My fear about them is it felt like... And I'm going to say this. And I hope I'm wrong. Because I actually really am rooting for them because I'm a fool. Mm-hmm.

I felt like he picked her because he knew if there was a big enough age gap that he would get air time. That's what it felt like he was scrambling, like, musical chairs. Interesting. The other ones, it didn't feel that way. Mm-hmm. That one felt a little scrambled musical charity. I would, I would maybe, are you in push back on that? Maybe it originally, maybe it originally started out that way.

Right? Maybe he goes in. Yes, Mary, yes. I think you all need to tune in for the reunion. I can't wait. What did you think of Leah and Chris? Okay, again, and I want to say to my iconic queen, Leah, stun gun, gorgeous, cool career. On her own, would love to go have dinner with her.

I like her in a relationship. I don't think it was the age difference. I felt like if a man wants to take a nap, let him know know if a person wants to go to the gym, what if I offer you context? We had Leah on on Tuesday's episode and we asked her about this question. And she reminded us and again, like even as host of the show,

we're not like we're not watching every scene in real time. We're reminded that like, especially at this stage of the show where they're living together, they don't have their phones, they don't have their jobs. matter. Yeah, she had a book. It doesn't matter. You go for a walk.

It doesn't matter. They're only there to have quality time. So what? I don't care. Part of quality. But she doesn't. No. I don't.

I'm going to say it's you're setting up the dynamic. And if you're freaking out because someone's taking a shower and they say, fine, you hate me because you're taking a shower. You got to be able to, even if you're thinking, even if you're thinking, you have to be able to go meditate. Well, that's not reality. Do yoga. Like, like, like. Go for a walk. Susie, what do you think? Oh, whoa.

I agree. I agree. I didn't know the context of not having your phone, but I will say if somebody's telling me, hey, you're giving, you're like in my space too much. I'm going to get out of your space. No, I would actually never speak again. Yeah, actually, I would be like, oh, you hate me. You're right. You'll never see me again. Me too. I hope you miss me. Me too. No, literally, the second I feel any resistance or boundary setting, I'm so insane that I'm like. I'll give you all your boundaries. I will literally pull my drop or job and I'd be like that's why I have never taken a dollar

from any man and I'm like I'm like I knew I'm out of here exactly yeah no in the same way so I'm having fun with anyone again yeah like with your basic lawyer that you can end up with like you'll miss me forever you're the last person we'll have fun with you we're gonna regret saying

that yeah yeah that's how I mean so I'm with you I didn't know the context about the phone because I do think if so they're not working or anything well it's just like again it's not just about the phone it's like at this stage I know. No, this isn't love is blind. They go back home.

Okay. This is all they have to do is spend time together. I know, but if you want to go to the gym or want to, I like a little alone time. Oh, I need a little. I mean, I'll regroup. Oh my God. Yeah. Need it.

But like this is. So it doesn't. And these environments, you have such little time. I know, but I think to regroup and gather yourself, if you're never, you're never re-centering yourself to come back and be present and you're only just like, basically, basically, like, you're getting drunk and you're staying drunk. Yeah. You're getting drunk.

You're day drinking. You're drinking again. Yeah, but like... You don't have a time to have the hangover before you go to, like, the pool party. What happens if you, you meet a guy. Yeah. It's early. Sparks are flying.

Hot. It's like, everything's really great. Honeymoon phase. You're just like, you're just like, you're just, you're talking about your future. Love that. Okay. You're just like, you're, you're playing house in your mind. You're like, yes, and we're going to have such a good life together.

It's so great. And then you go to the promise room and you make a, promise to each other to really, you really want to see this through. You really want to, you really want to explore this relationship. You've never looked like more butch. I love it. You're two weeks in to this relationship. And then all of a sudden, he's just like, this is a lot.

But it's a lot because I'm saying when you take a shower, you hate me. She's making him say this is a lot. No, but that's not the, I don't think that's the real, the real context is like, is psychotic of me to say that. But it's not just about the shower. It's framed as a shower. It is him basically. Wasn't he saying this is a lot because of the.

shower? I think he just kind of disappeared on her a lot. Okay, he did that before. So he was pulling away before she freaked out about the shower and the gym. He kept started. He started to pull away and we didn't see that. You saw the end result of a buildup. So you watch him start to sort of disappear a little bit.

Yeah. Okay. While all the other couples were both on and off camera. Okay. So it seemed like, okay. So this is going to check down. Because they could go out and get ice cream. They could go shopping.

I see. Do whatever they wanted to do. Okay, okay. They did not do that. Okay, so this is good information. Okay, you know what? I'm backing up. Hell yeah.

You know what? We got her back. We got her back. This is where, by the way. This is me too. Where I can learn a big, again, this is, I actually got pretty good in a relationship where I can admit where I'm wrong. Beautiful. And I didn't have all of my facts.

And I owe you an apology. Learning, changing always. I don't know where. Where's my lens? But when we came in before we started rolling, we were talking in that conversation, we both agreed with, with, with, that. the context, we both agreed it would drive me nuts if somebody was like up my ass like that. Without any context, Leah doesn't look like rational. And that's how it was framed.

They edit her. They did her dirty in the edit. Yeah. Okay. So, okay, that makes me, look, you know when as a man or a woman or like whoever you're dating, you know when a person, you can feel it when they're obsessed of you. And you can feel it when it just whatever somebody opened the window and somehow it's gone. And you don't know what happened, but you can feel it.

feel it when there's a poll coming towards you or we're like it's just not happening and it feels bad well after you leave the studio we are going to air our interview with chris which i think will be very interesting for a lot of people to hear which i think will also be a great set up going into the reunion and you're definitely you're definitely going to want to hear a lot of background from leah's state of mind and and things she communicated to chris i see and then at reunion he walked in wearing sunglasses. No. Yeah, I got pull words of him with and without sunglasses.

I said, whichever one you want, take them. Wow. Do you think, who cares? Iconic move. That's a move. Respect. By the way. Before we started, one of his peers said, you should take those sunglasses off.

And I looked at Jorge and I was like, shut up. Yeah, let him leave him. Can we talk Jorge for a second? Yes. Spood. Pastor's son. Pastor's son. P.K.

P.K. Vanel. Obsessed with her poise in the, no, I shut down. I get flooded and I, I leave my body, but I don't leave the building. So I watched panicking in real time how he was talking at her. Whatever happened out on the street with that man on the street. Okay. First of all, I knew he had kids when she asked you have kids and he didn't answer her in the promised room. Okay, whatever. I knew it. He's 60. That's a lot. An actual boomer. respect. I mean, he's hot. The way he was talking, her poise and having her own back in the moment, the way he was, and he's threading the needle about the celibacy thing of like being enraged, that oral intimacy is how, shouldn't you be pleaded? Like, like the threading of the needle that he's angry that it's not nothing. It's like, like, I felt for her having her own back with elegance. She didn't start crying in front of him. I would have panicked. If I had, I would have, I would have shut down in the moment and not sort of, I would have gotten out of there.

I would have freaked out. They would have aired the audio of me behind the cameras with the producer. Yeah. sobbing in the elevator, sobbing like, yeah, I need a time. I would have been panicking. Pulled a cold and jumped the fence. Full Colton fence. I would have jumped a fence. I'd be like, her legs are so short.

How'd she get over the fence? Then she did it twice. She went back in her cute pink pajamas. Her poise and having her own back. I wanted to take lessons from her in real time of how to have your own back. I thought she was very elegant. She was very elegant. I loved her.

She's a queen. She's a queen. She's an iconist star. And they... They are also at the reunion. They are also at the reunion. Wow. Yeah.

We did. I bet he's hot. We know she's hot. But I bet he has his charm. But he's... He's very charming a person. I bet he fills a room. He does.

100%. Andrew and Libby. Okay. Andrew and Libby. Okay. At first I was grossed out by him. And then I found them very cute. They are cute.

I found her adorable. I found her fun. I found their dynamic very charming. I actually felt like she sincerely wasn't just there for followers. I felt like she really could just move to Baltimore and marry him. They had really cute moments together. Yeah. Like, even when they first were back at the retreat.

Yeah. And she was like, I kind of like you a little bit. He was like, should we get married? Yes. I love that dynamic. Yeah. And I think they matched perfectly. She's fun.

I feel like if she could teach the other gals a little bit more of her cool, I think her bad bitch mantras were fun. I feel like she seemed like even if it was coming from even any place of insecurity, she seemed confident. And it made her hold the cards a little bit. And if she could have even some of the poise of vanilla, like both of them, I feel like I wanted them to give to stewardess and proposed engaged gal.

Like I felt like she presented in a manner a little bit of teasing, a little flirt, rather than like, I found that she had the fun teasing. And it seemed like he liked her to have the upper hand. And she was kind of funny and seemed cool. Yeah, I think early on they probably got a bad beat, so to speak, because like they leaned into her bubbliness. I mean, she looks very young. They leaned into her, like, youth.

She's the youngest one on the show. And I think over the season as it progressed, you see why it could work. They were cute. I found them to be cute. I kind of felt, I really felt like they loved each other. And I was happy for them. I don't like when an older guy is like she's mature for her age. And I didn't like when people told the older women you look good.

Like there's nothing wrong with him 49 or like you look, you look great. Period. Not for your age or what like. When Logan's to Vanessa. So can we talk about how much you look older than me? The optics. Oh my God. The optics.

And it's like, I actually didn't think they looked that visually different. Like, maybe in person, but I didn't find them to be that. I thought if I saw him at a restaurant, I didn't find them that. Like jarring. You're not like, oh, my God. I didn't find him that young looking. I found them to look like a couple. It is interesting to see how these couples work out.

Yes. Or what happens post-filming. In an age-difference relationship, often the person who's older comes in with more life experience. Yes. One reason I think Nali and I worked out early. on is because I had a lot of my baggage and heartbreak and things that were like, you had your life experience. And then Natalie had her life experience.

Even though she was a lot younger than me, I felt like she related to like, we had very different experiences. But when I was like, I've been through a lot and I just need someone who like isn't cavalier about like a serious relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've, you know, when you get older, you have heartbreak. Yeah.

And then you find someone else. There's always this like, I don't know if this person's worth two more years of my life only for it to end and go terrible. And just that whole mental gymnastics that I think when you're watching like Leah and Chris, there's just kind of like, like how serious you. Like it's easy to be like, hey, let's not worry about age. Let's just go have fun. Yeah. Yeah. But like when when these couples go out into the real world and in reality hits, will they still be able to show up for when it gets hard?

Yeah. Will the younger people still be as committed to working through it? Yeah. You know, because it's a lot easier while filming to be like, you're hot. We have good chemistry. Yeah. This is great. You're like, what, of course I'm attracted to you.

But when you start hearing about like their past and kids are involved, you integrate with them, like, are there, will they continue to want to show up? Because, as you know, being in a relationship is showing up every day and choosing each other. And not just when it's fun and exciting. Yeah. And you have the chemistry. Yeah. It's like when shit hits the fan. Well, it was interesting seeing the older women.

They're right that society is a lot harder on the women. And it was like an interesting yes to your point of like the shit hit the fan for both sides. Like there's a big ageist with Libby or Fifer. Like on both. sides there's that and then also the society sort of shaming the older women when part of me is like go for it like like like when when I got divorced I don't want to be sure I'm a divorce but like uh like it's interesting when you know when you're in your 20s everybody's available and it's sort of like musical chairs and whatever and then you get like at a certain point where people get paired off and that a lot of people get paired off and that a lot of people that a lot of older guys than want young so it's like well then who are you supposed to date like yeah so so like so the guys get to go date but the women have just be put on a shelf like yeah so you know it's an interesting thing where if you don't go looking for an age difference but I have dated people

that are younger and older like where you're like once you're sort of out in life it's like the numbers just get crazy both directions right that's the thing about this show a lot of people when the show came out. It was almost like positioned as like a show that is promoting age differences. Yeah. Or no, we're just, we're focusing on this one aspect that it is becoming more and more common. Well, it's a reality. And dating.

And I think for anyone out there, the first time they dated someone who had some kind of age difference, you kind of were like, how did I end up there? No, literally. You're like, you're caught off guard. Well, because you also, at first, you're all like in school together. You date maybe one or two grades off. Then maybe you're like the same friend. Like, so I also wasn't in my 20s when apps exist.

Like, I just feel like you sort of had access only at the time in my, like to people that were your age. You know, your friends like. Your circle. So I feel like now the apps of it all have really changed a whole variety. Yeah, like when I met Nick, I wasn't like, I'm looking for a man in his late 30s. Yeah, yeah. But like, like over the, you know, so the guy that I dated a guy for a year and a half who I met in real life who was 18 years younger. than me. Wow. And like, and it was great. Was it so fun? It was really fun. It was, but it wasn't even like,

he was super successful. We, I loved him. And I was, and again, it was, I didn't know if his family would accept me. He's Indian. His family, I loved his family. I didn't know, like, I'm not Indian. I was older. I was divorced. And his mom was so welcoming to me. I loved her. We still text on my birthday. Like I miss her. I was touched like at how how I would have understood if she was like maybe if I wasn't what she was looking for for her son. But it touched me so much that she saw like we just had a great time together. Were you guys dating with the intention of like longevity or were you like I'm just open to see where this is going. If it's fun, it's fun. But I really do see a future with you. I think it for he was the first person I dated after like like I went on a bunch of dates.

And I've never really been, I'm not like a sleep around gal. And like, and I am also okay being single. And I met him and I, he, I just, on paper, he didn't, he lived on, he lived on the other coast. And on paper, I was like, well, this is like, this feels were stacked against us. Yeah, this will never happen. But I, but I, like, I was tickled by him. And I, he was smart and we just liked, we just had fun. He was smart and interesting and, and like, and like, and I think at first, both, you. of us, it's like, well, this will be a fun few months. I'm like, and then we really felt for

each other. Like, we really loved each other. It was almost so impractical that I was able to dive in and go, let's just give it a go. Yeah. It feels like, let's just be into we're out and like, and it's okay. And I think it was like a really lovely, like it was like, I have nothing, like, I loved the guy. And like, and I know he loved me. And it was like a really beautiful, I'm so grateful for it. And so it was almost like this summer camp, of like, let's just see what happened. And it was, I think, more than either of us expected. And that was, like, touching to see, like, here's this person that I might not have known. His friends were great. Like, his family was great. And at a certain point, we were just at different

points in our lives. And it was hard to walk away. It was the right thing, I think, for both of us. But, like, it was a very good relationship for me. And it did show me that in some ways I have found when I was dating, some of the guys that were my age seemed more, I don't know, like he wasn't scared by the fact that I owned a house or that I had a career. Like, he had his own stuff. He was like, he was raised by a cool woman who was powerful. Like, I felt like he was open to and not, like that, all of this stuff, like, all of that was not an issue. But I also don't have kids. So, like, I don't know how it looks if it's like, but I did feel sometimes like going to his friend's weddings. I'm like, do they think it's weird? Is it weird when we all do karaoke? Like some songs that they are

singing. It was like a third, seven, I mean, I don't know. Here we go. Yeah. What's Arden's song going to be? Exactly. But it's interesting seeing the double standard. Like what I liked about watching your show is it is a reality of like that sometimes society, I hope more women can date younger men. At a start when we were alone, I didn't really think about it. Like, we just liked each other and he was smart and ambitious and cool. We laughed our asses off. We traveled the world. He was successful. Like it was sort of a non-ist. issue. But the reality is, is he was that. It's just like, you know, it's, I think it was more like

there were certain things that we were just different on. And I don't know that it was necessarily just the age thing. What are your thoughts on Pfeiffer and Derek? Do you think they? I think they're cute. I like him. I liked her. She really panicked when it came to having people come in. Like reality panicked her. Really panicked. You know, she's like, like, wait, what's going to happen when we leave? Yes. And when they were meeting people. And I felt like I was happy that they gave it a go.

I liked the key giving. I think that conversation that they had about moving really, I think, revealed, like, where she was in life. And I think it kind of spoke to like she really is very much a 23-year-old. Because to me. She looks really young, too. We forget about how she looks. It was just more like, I think, again, when you talk about like, well, I plan this for

myself. And I promised myself this. And I had all these. And this, what you're asking me do is very different than when I told my, that that's just something I think when we're younger. Yes. We do a lot more of. Yes. The planning our life. And as we get older and shit happens. Yeah. Our lives are our, our plans get destroyed. We're kind of more like how Derek was. There's like, listen, I, you know, I'm this feels good right now. I'm not, but like, I can't predict the future. Yes. And I don't know what our plans are. But like what I'm, what I'm focused on is what rights in front of me and why this is working. And to me, that conversation felt like two people in very different aspects of their

life. I felt like, yes, she did seem young in that conversation. And I think she was like thinking of the reality of like, I'm going to go be like a cul-de-sac somewhere in Dallas doing like carpool. With two kids. Yeah. Totally. And I feel like they have a chance to, if she really wants to have a family and like be a mom now and have a ton of kids, I feel like

he will, I feel like he would step up to the bat and try to love her forever and he would try to do it right. I hope for her that she would have enough friends. I feel like she's going to shut down in Dallas. I hope that doesn't happen, but that's what I think. What do you think, Susie? I think she's young enough. Not to say, I mean, I moved to a new city at 30 and it was intimidating, but I like thrived. I made a lot of great girlfriends. Doi, doy, doy. But I think it's really hard to move to move. It's hard. It's hard to move at any point and it's hard to find adult friends. It's lonely. But I do think she's young enough where I'm like you could get she could get plugged in pretty easily, I think, in any major city. Yes. But I agree with the, the conversation that

she showed her age, which might appear elsewhere, or maybe not, maybe she just embraces it. But I think that if you have a vision of how you want your life to be and you're 23 years old and you're like, wait, why am I suddenly moving to a new city living in a, like, you said the word cul-de-sac and I was like, ooh, like the thought. And I'm like of age to like live in a cul-de-sac. But I don't. But I don't. and it would be a lot to go live with somebody and become a stepparent overnight. I'm also a I used to live in a cul-de-sac, and I don't want to go live in a cul-de-a-cala. I love a cul-de-sac, guys. It's such a good, like, party, like, get all the neighbors together, like, every.

It's, like, such a good little, like, you can buy bikes in that circle. You can, like, play football in that circle. If I have friends, yeah. If I have friends, I'll live in a cul-de-shack. You have to make friends with your neighbors. You know, you got to go outside and you got to, hey. If it's in a city that I want, I'll live in a cul-cal-sacac. happily. I like this twist. I go to Pasadena a lot and I'm like I could live here.

Like I think it's so cute and wholesome. I like a big pig pile of people and I wanted to go to Vancouver through that retreat. So I do like a big I like a gang of kids. I like bike riding. I like Yes. So that your version of it, I liked that. Yeah. I don't know why I pictured blinds drawn. Me too. I pictured blinds drawn. You pictured dark clouds. I pictured friendless sitting alone waiting for somebody to come for more. Right. But you're having bike riding. You're having You're having lemonade stands. You're having, okay, I want your version. I want summer sprinklers.

I want flipping slides. So many summers, so many waters. Almost to your cul-dice. Yeah, but that comes with a good partner. That comes with good neighbors, good community. Like, she hasn't seen where she's moving, I don't think. You know what I mean? So I understand the intimidation.

I can get on board with this. Yeah, me too. I wish them well. I want them to work out. I want the Natalie version of this. You'll have to tune in for the reunion. I want a slip and slide. I also like a slip and slide.

I phone one. Found a couple. I like that. Oh my way, we didn't talk about John and Teresa. Yeah. Let's talk about John and Teresa and then we'll get to our interview with Chris.

Okay, great. John and Teresa. I'm happy for them. But? I wanted her guard to stay down. I felt like she started to shut down on him. She was adorable at the retreat with him. They were cute.

Yeah. I felt like he was good for her. He seemed locked and loaded and all in. Yeah. She started to seem like she was getting log jam. I saw the eyes of like leaving, like leaving the body, the log jam. I was happy they ended up together. I think she overthought the kids not knowing as age.

She's reading the kid's letter really opened her like eyes to being like, oh, look, they do just want me happy and they do see that I'm happy with him. Yeah, absolutely. They're cute. I want them to work. I liked them together. When she got shut down, I felt like she. was sort of dismissive to him. Thoughts?

You have things to say, but you know what happened. You got to watch the movie. I can't wait to watch the movie. Nick, this show, can I just say, you guys, it's riveting.

I know. I loved it. I want another season. Pitch to follow one couple that's the same age so that people don't just go on to go get the various, like one to stay.

Those are conversations that are happening. That's my pitch, that we follow. So you don't know who's going to get followed. Listen, with the first. season of reality TV show there's limited budgets

no no we only got any episodes can I just tell you you killed I but that's it was just a perfect season there's no no no now that people know how it is that way that you can't control I hope the same way like love is blind really found its footing season two I hope the same for us I loved the retreat

and Whistler I loved it the amount of applicants we're being sent we're not even in casting I love it yeah I mean I literally couldn't stop watching it. I loved it. I had a writing, rewrite to do. I haven't done anything because all I want to do is watch your show. Love it. I loved it. It's really good. You guys did a really good job. People are loving it. Lauren brought it up independently. She was like, if you're not watching age of attraction yet, I was like, excuse me, that only may be watching. I'm going on tomorrow and Nick. And then you called and she was like, ah, and then she was bummed that she couldn't come today. I will have to get her back. Did you, did you, like, that scene when Leah and Teresa got into it? Oh. And I'm just smiling. I can have thoughts.

Okay, let's hear it. I don't like when people apply their rules to you. I'm like, when I went on The Bachelor and then people came off and were like, you know how this works. I was like, nobody handed me a rulebook. Nobody said, these are the rules you have to follow. I said, I signed up and walked on. And I was like, and I have to take this shit home. Thank you.

So when people are, I don't like when people apply their version of what you're supposed to do to your life. Because I'm like, you have a different situation. She's trying to allow her kids to get to know him at the rate in which she did. and she has every right to do that. Like I just, I did not like that for that reason, but that's coming from my personal experience. Agree. That's a great point.

And I think, yeah, I think there's a little bit of Leah thinking this is what we're supposed to do. And like reality TV, there's, there's guidelines, there's not rules. I wish you could have taken back the head chop and motion. But other than, I don't. Yeah, it was. I do think Leah made a good point though.

Because it's like, listen, if your kids are that important, to how you're going to feel about this relationship. Yeah. Then like before you go get really into this relationship, if they're going to impact how you feel about it, shouldn't they know? Or shouldn't you know how they're going to feel? But I think she also said, she was like, the whole point is that like we're not ashamed of this. I'm not ashamed. You don't know that the person next to you isn't ashamed.

I think that's what's interesting about it is that she might carry shame as a woman being 27 or whatever it is years older. And that's her experience. And like it's interesting to explore that. And it's interesting that it came out, whether it's shame or something else. But I'm like, I don't, I didn't. I was like, I was not ashamed dating 18 years younger. I didn't care at all. I love that.

I couldn't have cared. I didn't care at all. I love that. I know there are certain people when I'm with them, they calm myself down. Like that who when I'm just next to them in the same room, there are certain people that just make my cells feel good. And I don't, it doesn't, you know, I'm dating somebody older than me now. And a man of that who just makes my cells feel good.

Like, and that's just, you know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. I'm just trying to picture someone on a dating app saying to someone else saying, you make my cells feel good. I feel like you would have that. You make my cells feel good. Looking for someone to, what is it, when cells like recreate themselves. Yeah, you regenerate.

Yeah. Like you regenerate cells. Yeah. Like somebody who like regulates my nervous. Who I just feel like grounding. Yeah. Ground. Like so right now I'm dating somebody who I feel myself.

calm. Love. Well, up next, we have Chris from Age of Attraction to get his answers on everything about the show, but ultimately why he did not end his journey with a relationship with Leah. Obsessed. And I think it will be a great lead-in to our reunion that drops next Wednesday. I can't wait. Chris, welcome.

What's up? Guys, good to see you. Good to see you. How are you, man? I'm awesome. So, first of all, thanks for having me. It's been some time. It's pretty surreal to be sitting here and talking about it and going back over it.

Obviously, feeling super blessed, a lot of emotions, nervous, excited. But I think more than anything is just realizing, you know, how, what an opportunity it is to, number one, show something that's never been shown before, right? Like, in a way, we all talk about, does age matter? Does it not? We proved it. Like, doesn't matter or not. I think we're showing it. I hope that does show it.

But yeah, and then also to see everybody again. I'm so excited to just catch up, you know. Yeah. So what, I'm curious, like what made you say yes to this experience? Okay, so what made me say yes to this experience is because I always told myself that if I'm going to come out, I want to leave everything on the table no matter what I'm doing. And when it comes to a dating show, I was always weary of doing any dating show, not to say that I had the choice, but no matter what, you know, there's a stigma that comes with dating

shows. And when I saw this, I was like, this could be something different. I think it will be something different. I don't want to use the word high class, but that's what it seemed like to me, a high class dating show, a show where it really is about relationships and showing the best self of each other. And, you know, I've said this many times. I always say clarity comes from commitment. And it's like, how do you get clarity on if age matters or not without testing it? I've had relationships with women that are older and vice versa. But for the most part,

you know, serious relationships of mine have been with older women. And I kind of wanted to test, well, how far is that age gap? How much of a gap matters or not? And do you feel like you got that answer? Yeah, I do think I got that answer. I think that like, I said this on my first interview. It was like, it's this analogy that I've heard so many times. It's like, don't leave your hand under a faucet without turning the knob and then even worse to walk away and say the water doesn't work. You know, so it's like, don't leave without just trying everything. And when they reached out to me for this, I was like, I believe this show is made for me. I'm 26 years old. So many times people think I'm in my mid-30s. And I generally have to carry myself, I think, a little bit older in business.

And I didn't want to do that on the show. So that's why I came out. dressed how I would dress if I'm going out to a bar, you know, and just like treating people the way that I treat people at home. And I think it was pretty clear that I gave that young vibe. I wanted to. I wanted to be honest and like give that vibe. I didn't want to give the business vibe. Whatever, which was interesting because I think people caught on to my age pretty quick, which was quicker than I expected. But I do think I got that answer, honestly. And I think that, you know. You had people guess your age early on the process. Or just your age range. My age range. I think they kind of knew what was going on.

And what made you, did you learn anything from that? Because, you know, I think younger people tend to say things like, I'm mature from my age. And then older people will, you know. Yeah, you're not them mature. Well, no, not. Sure. But older people might say, but I have a youthful spirit, you know.

And we kind of self-advertise. And vice versa. Yeah, I'm an old soul. But it's interesting that you, you were immersed in this group of 40 people all different ages and that you didn't surprise people as much as you thought you might. That was shocking to me. But, okay, half and half, because I think that generally, which was a blessing in and of itself, the men really created a good bond. I think the women did within each other as well. I mean, friendship. We came off the show and I have three or four best

friends, I could even say, you know, that I could reach out to at any time. And I think because of that, you know, I think guys will catch on a little bit faster. Maybe not as far as the girls go, but I will say, uh, I think Leah caught onto my age pretty quickly. I will say, I think she did. I don't know about everybody else, but I'm pretty sure she did. And I think that was part of me just being that goofy open. How old did you think, uh, Leah was? How old did I think she was. I, if I had to put a number on it, I would have said 36. Okay. I could say she looks down to even 33, 34, which I was saying that. The more time I spent with her, I was like, I started adding a year, adding a year, adding year. I was like, okay, I landed on 36. Forty one was definitely a little bit of a

shocker. No question. Well, you had a, you, you kind of felt things out with Vanessa first. That ultimately didn't work. Why did that not work for you? Well, I don't want to, I couldn't give such a clear examples like why me and Vanessa didn't work. When me and Vanessa connected, we were like, okay, this is a connection, but at the same time, I don't know how deep this is. In a way, it was like self-explanatory. I don't think we had to tell each other that, hey, this might not be it. But we're going to give it a shot, which we did. We had a cool date. We also had an awesome morning date at the coffee.

And then we went into this mixer, which was the biggest, the biggest day of the whole, I think. I mean, I think that mixer changed everything for everybody, that first mixer. And I walked in, you know, I didn't want to put pressure on Vanessa to talk to me. That's the last thing I wanted to do. I didn't want her to feel like she has to talk to me. I was, you know, looking forward to having more conversation. But at the same time, I was like, well, I want to talk to the people. And I think she does too.

So I went into it with that mindset within 15 minutes of talking to everybody Like always do I look I see Vanessa talking to someone I'm like okay I'm gonna do my own thing You know get pulled out Talk for a little bit have a quick interview Come back in and I'm like Everybody's paired up

Everybody's one on one right now I feel like I'm doing loser laps I regatta in Miami again You know so I'm doing a loser lap or two Walking around see if I can get someone to attention You know at this point I don't want to jump in See if anyone looks at me you know And I see and I just walking by

I see Leo standing there hadn't had a conversation yet besides just looking at each other and just immediately started talking as if we've known each other forever. She started talking to me. Hey, this is whatever. Maybe 10 minutes in, I forgot who came up to us. It might have been Tiffany. Somebody came up to us, walked over and Leah's like, stop. This is my man.

Like jokingly, obviously. But like, this is my man. Get away, you know? Five minutes into talking to her. I just thought it was funny. It was cool. It was comfortable. Immediately I felt comfortable.

And then honestly, I mean, that changed the whole dynamic of the show for me. It was two things. Number one, I didn't want anybody to feel disrespected. I think that this isn't a typical dating show where you just like try everybody or talk to everybody, kiss everybody and see who's the best kisser, right? Like, so that was part of it. I didn't want anyone to feel disrespected. But at the same time, I wanted to give my all to this, right? So like at this point, taking it back to that second, I was thinking to myself, well, do I just keep talking other people? Am I going to do that this entire show? Am I going to at least commit to something, you know? So a few days went by, obviously had an amazing. I mean, that zip line date, I think was a game changer for us, was a beautiful. moment. We had a beautiful conversation. And then the conversation is about moving in together. That was that was the biggest thing for me because I wanted somebody that I felt comfortable moving in with. Obviously going to the show, I hadn't had a relationship or a serious relationship in a while. And I wasn't really wanting to be open about the sexual side of things, but it came up early and I was like, whatever, I got to be open with it. Like, I've been celibate for about two

years going into the show. So then moving in with someone was creating a lot of anxiety for me, with someone that I wasn't comfortable with. So be able to have somebody be able to have somebody be pretty like she brought it up before i did what's like hey when we move in together let's not like this isn't about sex you know what i mean like if that happens down the line that happens but this is let's put these borders here so that we can get to there what's your definition of celibacy my definition of celvacy is not having sex but everything else obviously okay everything else leads to sex you know what i mean when it comes to you start you start you put a line where you want to put it and i think if you start playing with that line too much you're going to cross it i was pretty

good about not playing with that line too much for sure and then what was your reason for making that decision uh the biggest reason for making my decision on celibacy is my faith i am a believer i do believe in the bible and i think that it's important uh to i believe sex is sacred there's no question but taking it a step further i am very health conscious i do live in miami i know how easy it is to catch something and i'm not trying to do any of that um in all seriousness i look towards my future i look towards my possible future wife future relationship and it's like i don't want any decision i make now to affect my future kids negatively, to affect my future wife negatively. So I just think about that a lot. I mean, if there's one reason as to why I've been celibate is because I'm an

overthinker, like an extreme overthinker. But, you know, here we are. And it's been a while since then, but, you know, we're doing okay. When Leah brought up, um, you being good at massaging and asking if you had done that with other people, you said no, knowing that you did have a moment with Vanessa. I think you might have been rubbing her shoulders. There's definitely a shoulder rub. There's definitely a shoulder rub. It would qualify as a massage, I would say. There might even have been like, I'm really good at this.

Like, you're pitching. This is my thing, right? Yeah, why not be up front about that with Leah? One of the, like, most awkward slash funny moments of the season for me, when I'm sitting there and she's looking up and I'm giving her resage, and it's like 20 minutes in, she looks at me and she's like, you're good at this. I was like, yeah, thank you so much. And she's like, what was the last time you gave a girl massage?

I was like, looked over and I'm like, oh my God, dude, is this the time for this right? It's her birthday. It's literally her birthday right now. I'm not to say her happy birthday in 20 minutes, you know? I'm like, come on. So played it off, just not wanting to deal with that in that moment. 20 seconds later, you didn't answer the question. When was the last time you gave a girl massage?

And honestly, I think I just played it off again because I just, to say in that moment right then and there while she's on the massage table, closing her eyes relaxed with all this euphoria and eucalyptus oil and all this stuff. And I'm like, well, yeah, actually I massaged Vanessa four days ago in the hot tub right before we kissed for the first time. So would you have done anything differently? I don't think so because it wasn't the time. You know what I mean? Like what was the last time you gave a girl massage? I didn't say I haven't given a girl massage.

I just didn't answer the question, you know? And time and place, I know that that's a little bit off, but what's the alternative? Saying that and then just creating a big scene on her birthday in that moment, it wasn't. To be honest, nobody knows this, but I went into the morning that morning ready to have. a conversation with Leah and talk about kind of all that, just lay everything on the table because it wasn't that serious. And I wasn't sure if the other girls had told her about that. I mean, it was a scene, it was a day and it was over. But just out of respect, let her know. I get to, you know, set and I see the entire, all the girls singing her happy birthday.

And I'm like, oh my gosh, dude, there's no way that it's today. A big part of, obviously we'll get to, you know, your final decision to end the relationship with Leah. but throughout the process, you guys not being on the same page when it came to like quality time or how much time you guys spent together or vice versa seem to be a point of disconnection between the two of you. I just would love to hear like how you interpreted that situation looking back at when that was going on. Yeah, that's that's, that was one of the things that looking back, I believe that there's no question I wasn't at my best after moving in together. lack of sleep. It's the first time I'd ever lived with anybody. You know, by week two, I started

trying to sleep on the couch just to get rest, not even because we were fighting or anything, but literally just because I couldn't sleep. You moved yourself to the couch? Yeah. Was she like hogging the covers or snoring or? No, not even that deep, but like, you know, obviously, you know, everybody wants to cuddle before sleep. And I'm just like, I mean, I run hot to start with that. And then number two, it's, it's already a somewhat uncomfortable situation in the sense of, like, let's be honest. We're trying to set a border here and put a line. and then all of a sudden, it's the middle of the night after two bottles of wine and we're cuddling in bed, like, where is that going, right? So not that that's the reason, but there's ads, it adds, it adds, it adds.

And then in those extra moments, I wanted to go to the gym. I wanted to be healthy. I wanted to show her what a healthy life, like, this is the lifestyle. This is my routine at home. And I kind of wanted to show her as best as I could. And looking back, maybe that was a mistake, but I wanted to show her as best as I could what my routine is at home and what my day to day is. And it's very hard to do that in a setting. You kind of have just been like, yo, back at home, I go to the gym. Well, you want to take it even further? Like, I was exhausted. I was exhausted.

I didn't want to take those extra three hours. I would rather take those extra three hours to get that shitty workout that I was getting in and try to, like, get some food, you know? If Leah were to say, or maybe some of the fan responses were, took that as you just a sign that you maybe weren't just into her and kind of a way of avoiding having that quality time with Leah. And that's fair. I wouldn't agree with it, but I also think that as we got towards the last week, or two weeks, I started to distance myself because I was struggling. I was thinking a lot. It's very clear that there was moments that weren't great. You know what I mean? Moments that I broke down more than I've been in years and everyone's going to see that or has seen that already. So I think that part of it

was me being a little hypocritical because I've talked so much about being vulnerable and how important it is to be vulnerable. And if you want to grow in a relationship, you got to be vulnerable. You got to be open. I think that I was trying to hide a little bit of how much I was actually struggling mentally with it just because I, you know, I didn't know what to, I didn't want to tell her, hey, it's not that I don't want to hang out with you, but if we're going to hang out, like, can we just, we had those conversations, but can we just do this? No, you know, let's go, let's go to the gym. Well, we can't go to the gym because there's no cameras in there. We got to go one by one, you know, so now it's a problem to go to the gym or now it's a

problem to spend too much time in the bathroom or things like that because we don't have that much time together, you know? So, like, in her defense, I think that things that I was complaining about, such as her being on my ass because I took a 20-minute shower, looking back now, it's like, well, because we didn't have that much quality time together, me extending those things probably bothered her more than I needed to. So I get that for sure. You mean, you think back in your past relationships, what does the quality time look like in those? Well, that's the thing. That's why I thought about this situation with Leah a lot. And I was like, let's be honest with ourselves here. Because in a true relationship where you're in love with somebody,

you kind of want to spend every moment with them. And that's, there's no question about it, that looking in that moment, asking myself the same question, why didn't you want to go, even more, whatever it is, every second of the day, spend time with each other. Rather, I was finding myself at the end of the night saying, hey, Leah, like, if you don't mind, you know, I kind of need a 30 minute to myself here. I need to read or I need to watch it just because I need a moment to breathe, you know, I didn't like that because I found myself getting a little overwhelmed and I didn't want her to see that. But yeah, I don't think that that's healthy in a, in a positive relationship. I think that you should want to spend as much time together as you can. That being said,

the more you get to know each other, you communicate, you understand each other more, you know what each, you know, you know what you like, you know what you don't like, you know what's important, you know that maybe once a week that's his thing to do every day and he needs that or she needs this every day. We didn't know those things. So communicating those things are a lot harder. There's no question. I mean, listen, I'm an introverted guy. I'm good at being alone. Yeah. But like, yeah, when you're when you're married and you have one kid and we work together, I mean, I spend. every second. And I'm still like, let me get into your skin. We're not close enough. That's how it should be, though. And it's like if I can get 10 minutes in the car a day. Okay, let's relax. No, but seriously, you know, you know, you.

No, I hear you. You listen, you'll find your own path. But I am curious, ultimately, obviously, you decided not to move forward with pursuing a relationship. with Leah and C, you know, kind of suggested that at the end of day, you're a lovely guy, you're a nice guy, but maybe you do have some maturing to do. What do you think of that feedback? I think it's fair. There's no question. I think that I can be very mature in certain things. You know, I had a lot thrown on me early business, family, friends, all these things. I think that

in my home, I'm a centerpiece for a lot of men, but at the same time, none of these men have ever seen me in a relationship, you know. So I think that that changes everything. I think that in a relationship, you're prioritizing your woman and she's coming over and then there's 20 guys playing basketball outside. There's 10 guys on a Formula One simulator. There's 10 guys working out. You know, that's not a normal situation for anybody. That's part of it. And then number two, there's no question that maturity in relationships is different. I think the maturity in our day to day in business and life, you know. And I'm a little inexperience in that for sure. I've only had one serious long-term relationship and that came out of high school, you know? So to go from that

to then, you know, have small relationships where, like I said, with a lot, usually with older women, so that's why I came into this and said, I want to test this. I want to make, I want to go into this with everything and try to find something serious if it's there and see does age matter or not. And I think that, I think I found that answer. There's no question about it. I think that that also created a pressure for us that that wasn't necessarily natural. But I'm still happy with with how it went, and I'm also happy with how me and Leah have communicated afterwards. There's no question. At least we've been able to stay cordial, at least keep in touch.

Before coming here, I wasn't uncomfortable to give her a call and vice versa, so I thought that was cool. So let's see. Hopefully we can keep that, you know, somewhat of friendship, a nice thing. What did you know, even relationships that don't work out, they often, if we want to, it can teach us something. What did your relationship with Leah teach you? I think that there's so much, so much, I learned so much from the entire experience, but specifically

what I learned from my relationship, my situation with Leah was I do have some maturing to do relationship wise, but also vulnerability, vulnerability, openness, communication is so important as long as we keep, you know, the respect to the other person, number one, respect to the other person, the respect to the people around us. I think that that's like the biggest deal breaker for me when it comes to a relationship. How do we respect the people around us? How do we respect the people that are serving us? You know, things like this. Those are the things that you don't really have to talk about. They just happen. And I learned that I can lead by example by being a servant leader, by showing other people what it is to be a leader. I also think that constantly we talk

about success and success and success. And it's like, really we make the definition of success ourselves. But constantly, I'm trying to compare success to what the world thinks success is. And I think that that's the same thing in a relationship. Like we compare our relationship to another because that relationship is successful, you know, rather than understanding like we've all been through things, everybody on this cast has a story. But the truth is, is that what we've been through doesn't determine the ceiling of what is possible in our lives. Same thing in a relationship. So I think that when it comes to Leah, I've realized maybe age gap this big doesn't work for me, but at the same time, I need to be better here, here and here so that I can show all myself and same vice versa. And then

if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. I don't want to waste anybody's time either, but it's like, it takes time to get to know somebody too. It's hard. I don't know. What do you think? It takes time to get to know somebody. But at the same time, how do you get to know somebody? You know, you're spending all day with somebody that you kind of just met. And it's like a sped run relationship in a year. You're doing it in a month. Well, I mean, I guess, I just, I guess your question made me think of another question. It's like, what's different about this show. Yeah. Is like, say, unlike a love is blind or like the bachelor where there's like, hey, yo, like, I don't have to get engaged.

Or in love is lying, you gotta get married. Like, as you know, like, it was like, do you want to keep trying or not? Like, there was no, like, and however you guys tried was entirely up to you guys, you guys could have done long distance. Someone, you know, there was discussions of moving. But ultimately, you decided with Leah

that you just didn't, you wanted to end it. So why did you come to that decision without, you know, being open to slowing down, the pace and just like exploring each other at a pace that you were more comfortable with. Yeah. So going back to pace and how I was saying how I think that things felt a little sped run, almost unnatural, we both want children. And that's a conversation we had pretty early. And I think that there was a little bit of, I don't want to use the word delusion, but a little bit of a thought

of like, hey, we got plenty of time to think about that. We do. But as soon as we moved into it with each other, not that it was a conversation, but it felt like there was an unnatural pressure to get to know each other way faster than normal to get past these things that almost get past the honeymoon phase it looked it felt like we went to the honeymoon phase to the to the to the get you know the other all that in in a week you know i don't think that was natural i also think that you know obviously she wanted a man that's successful that can take care of her and her family and that's family values right that being said is that going to happen next year or is that going to happen four years from now you know i'm 27 now the show aired when i was 26 and

I do feel like I'm ready to have a family, but at the same time, just saying that makes me feel like I'm not ready to have a family. You know what am I to say that? It's an interesting point of view. I mean, what I'm hearing could be wrong, but like, it's interesting that you say that because I talk to a lot of women about dating,

and I always hear, you know, like the women I'll talk to ask for advice. They'll say things like, yeah, he says he wants to have kids someday. Yeah. And I'm always like, well, what is someday? Right. You know, like, sure, great. Yeah.

You know, and listen, like, you're right. We have to meet people. We have to get to know them. But yeah, I think the devil's in the details between, it sounded like hearing you talk about this is like you, the idea of being a father and a husband someday sounds great. And you know that it's a personal goal and you want to do that. But it doesn't, it sounds like you are patient when it comes to getting there.

Yeah. And not that other people are less patient, but like, you know, it comes down to attentionality. You know, I think there's a lot of people who can go on the show or just in life and just, you know, just be very intentional. Yeah, it takes time to get to know people. But using this experience, like, like, Leo, you know, she's like, listen, we don't have her phones. We don't have our TVs. They don't have her friends. So, like, we have each other. So let's hang out. And you're like, I'm going to the gym. We got time to get to know each other, you know. And so, like, that was kind of you demonstrating your pace when it comes to, like, wanting to connect and move forward. just kind of how it's living. Yeah, and I think there's not, one's not wrong, but it just,

it does, it can demonstrate where two people are with their intentionality in terms of like how much they are actually serious about like moving a relationship in a direction that would result in a, a bigger commitment or something as serious as, as having kids together.

Yeah, it's very true. It's kind of funny because it's like we were saying, you say one thing and it's not that the actions don't follow because it's not, it's not saying, I don't want kids, but just the way that I'm producing, the way that I'm living, it's like, okay, well, if it comes in three years from now, that's also okay.

It comes for five years from now, it's also okay. If it comes tomorrow, it's also okay. You know, I think that maybe that's what you're saying, right? That's where I was and she's kind of coming at it. Well, I don't have five years. We don't have five years to think about that, right? So I think that for sure there was a pressure there. I don't want to keep surrounding the kids also living, moving.

She was open to moving to Miami. She didn't prefer it, you know? But going into it, I was like, I'm open to. to relocating kind of halfway through the more that I thought about it, the more I realized how much I'm leaving at home. My father's 77 now. He's, you know, not doing well at all. So if I'm going to spend the last few years away from him, that's kind of ridiculous. And I just started thinking about that a lot out there. So that was another factor as well. I think that there's no question. I can't deny that. But I went into it thinking age doesn't matter. And I think I came out realizing

it definitely does. Now I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, whether you're older or young, but age matters. There's a lot that comes with that, you know. And I think that for me, being with a woman 15 years older does put an unnecessary pressure on me because I am kind of that I've already played that role for my family of like provider or whatever and to do that to a level that's times 100 right now. Well, it seemed like dating someone like Leah and what she brings the table and she seems to be very like self-aware about what she wants and what she brings that like, again, it seemed like it helped you

understand kind of where you're not at in terms of like advancing your life. Again, like the, you're, you know, you're supporting your family. That's very noble and awesome. It sounds like you're very grounded and doing well for yourself on a professional level. But like on the romantic level,

the idea of it almost sounds like you're, you're almost kind of comfortable with that rather than, you know, yeah, that's fair. And like wanting to be like. That's super fair. That's super fair. I think that having someone as intentional as Leah definitely brought, I don't want to say the worst and the best, just brought everything out of me.

And I think that I've learned. So going back to your question, what did I learn? I think I've learned, I feel like I grew years in relationships in just a few days, to be honest with you. Because of what you said, where am I short? Where do I need to improve on? and then also do I want just the idea of love or do I want love? And that's a question that I started asking myself after.

And I answered it with I do want love. You know, let's not go and say, okay, because this doesn't work out, I can't be in a relationship right now. I'm not ready for one, you know? Because at the same time, when I was 18, I thought I was ready for reality TV. And then when I was 27, I thought I was not ready, right? But it worked out now. So it's kind of like, I don't want to say I'm ready or not ready, but I do want to be the best

version of myself. And I think Leah definitely, maybe in the moment it didn't seem. like that, but I think that afterwards, there was for sure a better version of me when it came to relationships. There's no question. And that'll be shown. That'll be seen soon. We're going to see that. Well, buddy, I appreciate you answering all our questions. Thanks for having me, guys. Seriously, congratulations. And thanks for again, as always, thanks for being a part of this show. It's a half of the season. Yeah, it's like what I've really enjoyed about the show is like this opportunity, like these, you know, it didn't work out for you and Leah, but hopefully it was

learning experience. And like you said, it worked for us. It's not for everyone. Compatibility is the most important part in any relationship. And obviously age differences in some relationships will highlight some incompatible aspects of two people. And it seemed like that was the case with you and Leah. I think so. But thanks for being a part of this. And it's been great and getting to know you, buddy. All right, Summer House, where, what are we thinking? What are we at? It's interesting that Andy Cohen was on record saying that this is the worst episode for Kyle out of 10 seasons. And I was kind of like, I... This?

This? Yeah. He said this episode was going to be his worst one where I was like, there's also that scene of him like going for Carl, calling him a China doll, and like, going to fight him. And I'm just like... Well, that's definitely worse than this. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Well, he did... This is definitely worse than that. He did call Amanda a fucking dumbass bitch. Yeah. But did he also call her a fucking bitch last season? Yeah. He's called her this several times before. Oh, I don't know.

It was a fucking dumb ass bitch. And not to in any way defend his behavior, but I don't remember last time he called his wife a fucking bitch, but he was noticeably belligerent and drunk this time. Oh, he was bullied and drunk last time. Was he? Yeah. So I don't know if one was like, you know. A little less. I mean, if you are sober, it's definitely worse than being drunk and saying that.

Both terrible. And I'm also kind of like the precursor too, where it was like last season he was calling her lazy and not dedicated, not motivated and then topped it off with a fucking bitch. This time she actually did absolutely nothing, but made fuck you eyes, according to blacked out Kyle. And Kyle says, fuck you. Then tries to tell Wes, she said fuck you first at the club. And it's just kind of like, bro, bro, how do you watch this back? And then he's like, but she's not hanging out with me. And it's like, but what are you doing?

You're standing at your DJ set with nothing playing eating like a cold cassidia. And it's like, I don't want to stand in the sunroom with you right now. I'm going to go hang out with our friends. I'm going to dip my feet in the jacuzzi and have late night talks. Like after we've already done the dance party, Kyle, when he brought that speaker out being like, she fucking left abandoning. Oh my God. And then he's like swinging it. I was like, Kyle Cook, what the fuck are you doing?

You also don't get to say that you've been abandoned in your home when she's 10 feet away outside with your mutual friends. Yeah. Like, I went outside for some fresh air. I didn't abandon you and you were more than invited. No one was like, Kyle, you stay here and don't even think about coming outside. Don't talk to Amanda, Kyle. Like, and then you come outside and that's the energy you bring, bro. Literally.

I have a question for you guys. Yeah. How, so Kyle talks a lot about lover boy, obviously, and kind of uses that as his reason that he's not the best version of himself right now. Right. Right. What do you think the line is of when you have stuff going on in your life, but you're still taking that out on like, you know what I mean? Great question. But before we get to that, what I'm confused by that is, like, to your point, like, yeah, listen, you know.

Running a business is stressful. It's a lot, you know, when you feel like you're responsible for a lot of people. And he's like what? I mean, he's got like $200 million or something, a lot of money on the line. Yeah, whatever. It's, I get that. But then why are you DJ? Mm-hmm.

You know, if your time is so. To get lover boy in the rooms. But that's why. No, but like it's not, though. It's not. But it's not, though. You know, like that, if all the things he could be doing as a famous public figure with a relationship with Bravo and the marketing he's doing. And like, again,

I don't have all the solutions for Kyle, but I just feel like just DJing and, and negotiating that lover boy is the drink of preference wherever he drinks is like, that's like a street game. You know, it's just like, that's knocking on doors. But what about like, why, like, lover boy, what a, what a great name Amanda came up with is the creative director. Like, why aren't there, why aren't we seeing funny bits or like skits or like ads try something is even something that doesn't land yeah like i just feel like a lot of it is reliance on collaborations with like already successful brands they did one with boys lie which like promoted their dirty shirley drink but it's like again i feel like everybody in today's in last night's episode was all wearing the uh boys lie merch from that collaboration so they're

supporting it's really nice actually i really liked sierra's uh uh shirr's a shirt she had the shirt, Amanda was wearing a set, and then you had Lindsay in the sweatpants. They were really cute. They're very supportive. And so it's just kind of like, I don't understand why, or like the T-Mobile commercials that are using Lindsay right now. Like, it's like, why wouldn't you be trying to get some sort of national spot or syndicated ad on Instagram?

Bravo loves to synergize. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just, I'm just very confused. But he chose to DJ. Just for clarity on that, lover boy, I don't know the relationship. friendship bravo i mean Kyle cook specifically like I feel like Kyle could be no I know but we are getting little in the weeds but like brav like you know the T-Mobile is paying a lot of money that Kyle doesn't have but I'm just saying in the same sense that like okay he feels entitled to

them being allowed to promote other drink brands or whatever else it is that I'm like I think that your group of friends support you no matter what that if you're like hey I'm going to throw together a bit would you show up I feel like these people that are already getting a paycheck to be here happy to um jesse jellman perfect example jesse solomon to advertise his tour took um did like ads in their interviews with like the backdrop that they do for their separate interviews in summer house to make that a promotion for uh his tour so you think you're watching something that's going to be an advertisement for summer house and then it ended up being like go see jesse on tour so i'm like but also like i get being stressed. I get being like

grouchy, irritable, reactive. I don't get calling your wife a fucking bitch when you're drunk. I mean like you can be a dumbass, you know, like name calling. I mean, if you were just, he's name calling. Yeah. You know, it's there's a difference between being irritable and being like what the fuck or whatever and just grouchy with his employee, but he's like, he's name calling. I mean, and also like, West

and Ben both being able to be like nothing happened that was so unwarranted like Kyle what the fuck are you doing? The fact that like I mean she's like sitting there crying I mean it's just even west because like West self-identifies as conflict of hers he doesn't want to say anything and the fact that he did I mean good for him but it also speaks to like how it's honestly it sounds like it was worse in real time.

Yeah I'm sorry but I feel like Sierra is the only one that's saying exactly what everybody else should be saying or they're like, oh, I can't believe that she would suggest such a thing. But I'm like, no, I think that that's the smartest idea for what's going on. You guys are together too much to the point where it's just like you guys don't enjoy being in each other's company. It makes other people uncomfortable and you guys don't have enough a part time to really figure out like what you guys want in this relationship. At one point in time last year, Amanda wanted kids and to move to the suburbs. Clearly does not want that this year with Kyle. Kyle saying that she wasn't ready and all that stuff. And now he's on tour.

every other weekend, come into a college near you. Like, it's just... Yeah, and I mean, I don't know about you guys, but do you ever just get, like, when you're watching Kyle just be like, I'm a victim, you know? But it is coming from a place at least he believes that point of view.

When they're showing the, like, nagging or the side... He was, like, talking about how, like, Amanda does these little... Side comments. Side comments, whatever, the badgering. Which is like, you know. And they play. it was like, well, when she did recap the why you became a DJ, like, that was accurate.

Like, that is what happened, literally. And then when you blared music out of a speaker and he said, I'm just, and she said, you're testing my patience, like, also valid. Like, these aren't things that, like, you should feel, like, warrants you to call her a dumbass bitch or fuck you. I know Kyle's not going to come on this show and walk us through his feelings. but I genuinely want to know. It's just like clearly you have a point of view that you feel no one understands.

So can we just like take the time and try to understand it because it just sounds like, because I think we all agree, we hear the same thing where he just, I guess he just wants unlimited support and cheerleading from his wife, regardless of what he wants to do.

And it doesn't like, it's like you, you're a 40, you know, you're not, you're, you're, you're just doing whatever you want. And you're expecting your wife to just be by your side regardless. Yep. And you, it doesn't sound like for all the support Kyle wants, and we all want support. We all want a cheerleader, especially as us men. But like, to Amanda's point, him becoming a DJ, it's just like, I don't remember the last time Amanda's been like, yo, I want to do this.

I want some support. I mean, there was that. The bathing suit line. Yeah. And then he's, and he ruined the entire day. Right? And it's like, yes, he did. He's basically like, you selfish bitch for having dreamed.

Don't you know, I'm a half, like, you know, it's always I'm a half a million dollars in this, and a half a million dollars in that. And that's blah, blah, blah, blah. I've always had sympathy for him in the sense of like starting a company. Granted, you know, he's got a finance background. He starts this company. But again, he started an alcohol company because he was a heavy drinker. And Amanda was like, can you stop drinking so much?

And he's like, well, it's my business. So it's like, here we go again with the DJing. And then it's like, in his mind, he's always. wanted to be a DJ, but it's like you didn't feel that you could pursue that dream just out of nothing. The fact that you can be a DJ today is based off of the 10 seasons and 11 seasons of support that you've gotten off of Summerhouse that people will show up because guess what, they're most likely going to see a Jesse and Amanda, a West, a somebody else as well. They're not just coming for Kyle Cook's DJ set. I mean, the whole cast isn't. Most of them show up,

not like when he's like traveling, but like a lot of the times where it's just Amanda, you know, like, but people would be at his shows in different cities and whatnot. So it's like, it's not like they don't show up and support him. But I've always, I've always like backed him up because I'm like, I couldn't imagine how stressful it would be to be like the numbers guy and kind of be the head of everything. However, like, you know, his company has expanded. If you're struggling and you've been struggling with this debt, like I don't understand like, who are you not talking to business manager, accountants, whoever that I'm like, you continue to slip into debt and make it everybody else's problem and everyone else's fault. So Kyle's allowed to be an asshole because no one

understands his stress, but you've been under the same stress for the last five, six, seven years. Right. We've got to have an action plan. You know what I mean? Or like a solution or sell the company or whatever it may be. But I'm like, you have no solve. But yet you somehow blame Amanda for everything that's wrong with you. And then everything that's right for you now is DJing that I'm like, okay, maybe you should be on your own. Nick, I do kind of try to, I attempt to empathize with him a little bit and try to understand. Like, and I think what Kyle tries to say is that he doesn't feel heard. The problem is his reaction to everything else is 10 times worse. And you can't empathize with someone who's treating other people that way.

Well, that's very true. Yep. It's like you stop listening. But he still doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense when he tries to explain himself. Like in his interviews where he's like trying where you would think he's bones over. He's like got a clear head and he's explaining you're still kind of like, yeah, you know, I don't see it. But I mean, I guess.

I mean, again, we get, everyone acknowledges when you're stressed and there's a weight on his shoulders. But he is doing, we're watching him make a TV show. I mean, we did hear. And we watch him party Thursday through Sunday. I understand it's a job. But. You did hear Ben be like, she does nag and like purposefully get under. Every, he doesn't know her enough though.

Like, make that judgment. But it's also. But it's also. The two and them. In a way that's like, you know, maybe. I'm still not. They are too close. That spin the bottle thing.

Yeah. And again, to Bailey's point that like, if Jesse makes a lighthearted joke, everyone says it's okay. Bailey says one, okay, put her foot in her mouth moment and everyone was like, how fucking dare you? He says, no, married people are included. Like, you are making out with married people. And Jesse goes up and wants to be able to make out the married people.

There's only one married person on this fucking cast. And it's a man that has a. Do you think that Bailey is an asshole? Do you guys think maybe this is a conspiracy theory? I think they're probably just clocking a vibe between. mean Ben and Amanda, regardless of like, they're not going to do anything about it. But she actually looks happy. Yeah.

And I think that's what's how. I think Kyle's clocking that too. And he's like, what the fuck? She doesn't want to hang out with me. Jealousy. Yeah, I think he's jealous and he's like not acknowledging that. But back to his stress about the business. Yeah.

What are these people on this cast and Amanda supposed to do about it? Exactly. They don't work for him. Not lover. But like even if he was stressed about Summer House, like I guess they're all on. on Summerhouse so they could relate. But like, lover boy has nothing to do with them. When he's mad, he's like, all he says is he wants Amanda to like hang out with him.

But also like, what are they doing? I don't know what Natalie and I were doing if we were like married on the cast of Summerhouse. But I, you know, and I love spending, we spend all our time together. But like if we were at a party house, I don't, I wouldn't be like, you have to follow me everywhere. Like I don't. He's not even, he's not even fun to hang out with. So it's not even like... You are fun to hang out with.

You're not a dick and mean and like not, you know, like Kyle is... When he's like, can I have a sip of your drink, she's like, are you going to be nice to me this weekend? Like, if you have to ask your husband that question, we have problems. There's one person who thinks I'm nice. That's nice. I just can't believe... It's just like Kyle's vibes are so rancid. Oh.

So like obviously she's not going to want to hang out with him. I know a couple people... You know, Kyle seems like the kind of person. because he kind of reminds me of like one of my friends that I know that he's a kind of guy that like when he's in a bad mood or something's going on with him, you can just feel it. You know those kinds of people. And Kyle gives that to me through the screen. So I can't imagine in real life. It's like, yeah, if you're being grumpy and being a little bitch, no one's going to want to hang out with you.

What's interesting is like he to some degree sometimes Kyle is like self-corrected where he just doesn't say anything and you tell he wants to say something. but then it doesn't help because then when he says something it's like all of the energy exuding at the same time. Yeah and it's also in his talking head he was even like I feel like I'm the worst version of myself this summer and it's like okay are you going to try to fix that? But DJ saved his life. DJing is the happiest.

He's ever been. No but when he said like I can't even articulate how I feel and I'm just like hello you've repeatedly if you watch this season from the beginning Kyle your biggest problem communication and understanding and listening because I'm like at the end of the day you're talking to your friends about Amanda's behavior and everything that pisses you off apparently calling her mom to come clean

your apartment, but you're not telling Amanda. So Amanda's over here singing your praises, not knowing that you're constantly talking shit and she has no problem talking shit to your face if she's got an issue with you. Then it's like, oh, nobody understands me. Nobody knows what I'm going through. Are you telling people what you're going through so that they can understand you? Or are you just like, nobody understands. I'm in debt so I should be allowed to party because that's what I see. I'm not seeing conversations that are productive even when they're in their apartment when she was like, what's going on with this DJing career? Like, why don't you sit her down and be like, hey, I have a serious plan as to like how this is going to better lover boy and like why I can

understand that you're concerned. But like, you know why she's concerned. And instead of easing those concerns because you have a functioning relationship, you want to blame anything that's dysfunctional about your relationship on Amanda. And when you're the one that has a problem with communicating and articulating how you feel or what you're going through and everyone else is just supposed to fucking have kitty gloves with this guy. Also just like a random thought, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Maybe this is a secret genius marking play, but constantly complaining and I don't know how well lover is doing in reality, but Kyle makes it sound like it's in the fucking trash.

Six months. He said six months. Again, he says a lot of things that, you know, is someone who knows at least a little bit about business, like sometimes I can tell if he says like giving you like generic business talk lines that sound important, but I don't really know what they mean. Do you think he's trying to like be like, it's doing so bad, it's doing so bad, I'm so stressed that people are

like we should buy lover boy. Well, that's what I'm wondering, but at the same time, that doesn't make you want to buy something that's like... That's what I've said all along. I've said all along that this lover boy is crashing because of the way that you treat your wife and your friends on this national television show that you are on. Yeah, especially with the name lover boy. You do not give lover boy. No, if anything, give that to fucking like... It gets sad old DJ, DJing in the corner, yelling at his friends because they don't want to...

listen to his DJ's head. Yeah, and then he wants to sell his flowery little drinks. It just doesn't line up. I don't. I haven't laughed as hard as I did until I saw Sierra in her big old. Her tiggle bitties. Yeah. Guys.

That was, I mean, Karma Brown. Karma Brown. First of all, her just like in the mirror in her room talking to herself. Oh, Chess. Her going, so funny. When she was like, I'm so funny. Relatable Now when she was going down backwards

On the stairs with the walker Jesus So funny The fact that she You didn't realize Why she was walking down the stairs that way But you realized When she turned around

It was like She would have fell forward It was a real It was awesome She is so Sierra really She I don't think Sierra gets enough credit For how fucking funny she is

When she told Kay J She needed to go up to paint her tities And he was like Sorry What? Like, I think we all were, like, confused. And the second we saw her tinnies, we were like, no, she had to go pay. And that probably took a while.

Yeah. They were pretty big. Costume queen. Yeah. And then also she gave KJ some, like, really sweet, good advice, you know, of just like. Which seemed like Lindsay's really just there to stir shit. Lindsay's a reality TV star, and I don't want to hear other why. Yeah.

I need her. Madison LeCroy, these are people that literally know how to stir the pot just in the right way, and they can literally leave. They can leave. And they were like, seen. She's like, yeah, I don't know why she was in there with Ben for an hour. But anyway. Oh, you didn't know? Oh, no.

Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. And then she's like, I literally went into a change. I mean, and her version of the story was very believable. And I'm pretty positive we watched that happen. Yeah. I was like to say, didn't we see a scene of them in his room? Yeah, and she literally went to go change.

Her suitcase was in there. It came out and then he was like flirting with her trying to get her number. You know what's funny? I think Lindsay and Bailey represent like seasoned reality TV vat of stirring the pot. and then, like, newbie, like, she's doing her best. Because the way Lindsay, like, drop that info, if it didn't, and it didn't really, like, land at the end of it, so she's going to move on.

And then, but you now have Bailey, who, like, there's going to be the rest of her season, is her drama with Dara because Dara. Sorry, with her drama with Dara because of what Lindsay sounds. So is, I am just generally, is, is Jesse singing? Anthony's, is he making, like, he's, is he not, he's not DJing, right? He's up there. Jesse is a singer.

He's a musician. He writes music. He writes songs about every girl he meets. His lower third says. Yeah. Have we seen a performance yet? I mean, he sung at Shabbat dinner. I'm a little curious. He's sung at Shabbat dinner.

He's on a very nice. He did. No, he had a show last year that a bunch of people went to in New York City where he does his originals and then maybe covers like a Sinatra or a Boubley. A Sinatra? He's a crooner. He's a, yeah. He's like a Michael Boubley type genre.

He's not a. I got here. Do we have this? Can I put some respect on Michael Vublay and Frank Sinatra. I know, actually, people are going to come for me in the comments because of that, but I'm saying that I said he was of that genre.

He does have a lower voice. He can like reach. Remember when he first came on? He's the tone. I just need to hear it. Hold on. I'm going to play it. I'm going to play it for everybody.

We are going to cut us listening to it because of copyright reasons, but we're going to play a Jesse Solomon's one. Okay. We definitely. Some of it's R&B though. I've heard one of them. Is this the new one?

This is Jesse Solomon? Yep. That's not bad. He's getting streams. That had 85,000. That's a lot. Yeah, that's not bad. He probably made a whole $10.

I only listened to 10 seconds, but it was better than I was expecting. I'm keeping my mouth shut on my audience on Jesse Sullivan's music. I think he's a good singer. I feel like honestly, that is what you sound like when you try to sing. You think so? I do. Can I start a music career?

Nick, going on tour next summer. Oh my God. You asked for this. You thought Kyle Cook was a. a good DJ. Does there a point in the song where he really goes for it? Like, really hits a note? I don't know.

That's the first time I've ever listened to it. What else happened? Now, is it because he's a reality TV star that you're, you don't? No, it is because this started off of just like a cute little moment on the show where he just like, ha la la la la, la. And sang for his peers. And they were all like, oh, cute. Ha ha.

And then everyone was like, oh, my God. this is such a moment so funny and he was like okay I guess I'll like win a Grammy but what if what if like you know I've I've always I've always been a little good at art I've had seasons of being artistic it's feeling sensitive because of his paintings Chuck no I think it's more as a reality TV star where I think we're never like you know for example and I get it's different and it's reality TV but like I remember being crucified for trying not very very well, but trying to have a little bit of a fashion taste on the bachelorette. And you realize this is not the time to take fashion risks.

Is this not the time to go like your scarf moments? Scarves or the bracelets. You know, like, whatever. Just like, just trying. Just trying. You know, I did tell Nick recently that when I first started working here, I was scared of him and then I saw a picture of him from his bachelor at season wearing a little infinity scarf.

And I went, oh, he's like a person. That's all I needed to see. That's all I needed to see. And I guess all, what if I was like, what if I was like, what if I just, you know, also was like wanted to really lean into the art and be like a professional sidewalk chalk artist.

You should. A sidewalk chalk artist. Okay, what if I got back into my oil paintings and I sold those paintings? No, no, no. Yeah, that's a good point, Natalie. Selling the paintings. It's like, okay, if someone wants to buy a painting, sure, someone buy a painting. Like, that's a you think. But if you're like, hey, guys, I'm going to sell

a live show to watch me do chalk drawings in the backyard. And like, well, that's not fun to watch. I mean, that's basically what he's doing. Well, he's playing music. It's more, that's something people normally go to watch.

Reality. It plays music in the background. It's not silent. Like, you know, like, especially the boys. Like, the women are on the gram, you know, selling the products.

Yeah, the beauty money. The boys, it's harder for them to do. But what they can do is show up to bars because the ladies want to meet the boys. I feel like Amanda Francis, and Jesse Solomon are the same person. And I do feel like they are both just like a little allegedly

S-C-A-M-E-R-S is and maybe like they're conning us out of home. Don't come from my girl. When Amanda describes her, like, they clearly, well, they're not married anymore. But she was like, I'm an old woman at heart. She was like, I would love

to go to the club in the nightgown and socks. That's really fun. I want to freeze in time as an 18-year-old. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, That's this married couple. And Amanda just wants like a nice good dinner with her husband that she loves. Yeah. Yeah.

She doesn't even have to talk to him, really. But even to your point that I'm like, even then, we've seen Amanda and Sierra, but Amanda more so, go out more than she ever has any summer. Yeah. And it's just like, and again, yet you're still finding things to pick at her. Oh, you're being fun with my friends, but not with me. It's all group. Last episode, Amanda was up until 4 a.m. What I'm saying?

She was up until 2. Yeah. This time. Like, it's like, she's part of it. committing and committing and getting cussed out and then setting up sorry as a virgo this one really got me but like when amanda asked for help and no one got up and no one got up and they were still and they're sitting there gossiping about her marriage i was like i love y'all i love y'all get the fuck up she's getting poked in the face setting up and you guys are oh just feels so bad for her because last night she got cussed up and

helped the girl that's getting cussed out setting up trees by herself for her husband that cussed her out oh that pissed me off so bad she got that cardier watch what do you think she got him A party? Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you better be happy about it. That glam. Mm-hmm.

90-minute glam. You got to get in that chair right now. Yeah. I almost sided with Amanda Beverly Hills housewife. Let's hear it. I mean, they said, Beau said she was Pinocchio and then acted like she never said it. Literally. And then Natalie, sorry.

Like, I get that you're not a housewife and maybe you're just like uncomfortable. But like the way that she absolutely shut down and clammed up and was like, I don't know. I didn't say that. I just said that it was joke. Y'all should have just owned up to it. Listen, that's what I was going to... Is it petty? For sure. In my defensive bows, I'm going to say that I think she said that.

It literally was such a flippant comment and response. It meant nothing to her. That she didn't register that as like, oh, like, I really came for Amanda's jugular. And again, Amanda, you're one person away. If you're going to be direct, then say it to her. Be like, I'm sorry, what was that? Yeah, that's what I was doing. Yeah, but hold on.

But like, these are all valid points in like... Yeah, we're also on our TV. show. No, but in the TV show, what she should have done is... I'm sorry, what? Boz, did you just say my name? Yeah. Like that. Yeah. But in... Oh, she heard it? She heard it. Yeah, she goes, she literally looks at Bose, looks back. They take a photo, whatever they're doing. That in her ITM, she's like, I'm literally one person away from you. I'm right next to you. And I heard it. And so that's where I'm just kind of like... Yeah, I am team bows then. Well, then Natalie goes, I heard it.

It was a joke, though. I heard it. And it was. And it was a joke, but still, like, she felt some type of way. Like, I don't think that. And that's fine. But Amanda wanted to feel some type of way. And I'm actually going to back up to reet where I'm just like, yeah, Amanda does show up on these group situations, like, already wounded bird.

Like, you're not adding anything. Yeah, it's like, you're just like this victim in this group. But then you're also saying, like, my life is perfect. She's also really entertaining, though. Yeah. No, her being like, my, what does she say? Over and over again, like, sorry, my life is, like, so great and it is beautiful and it is perfect. And they're all like, but it's not.

And like, that's okay. No one's life is perfect. Just out of curiosity, what is not perfect about her life that these women want to make clear? I think they just wanted to be real and be like, listen, like, my life isn't perfect. I do, I fight with my husband. My kids don't listen to me. My house can be a mess sometimes. Like, I was laid on that on paying my car insurance.

Like, just, but she's like, no, I'm perfect. And nothing is ever wrong in my life. and my life and my life so great and I make more money than my husband and I can afford this and I have a Chanel oh you have one of those I have two that's what it is she's just not being like authentic and genuine with these women who like clearly are very open about the struggles that they go through yeah and even the cult thing that's what they said that's where even Erica was like I think the realist moment and the best moment I've had with Amanda yet is hearing her talk about this cult because it's something that really happened to her allegedly and it's also something that like she was able to open up and talk about I guess we didn't really really get to see the full picture of it because I was like I don't really feel like from what we saw it felt very open I don't like the way that they're treating the cold thing though like I think it's like she shared it and I think they're addressing it a way of like well now we're gonna say that maybe that didn't actually happen no I just feel like they just believe it at face it feels yeah they're yeah they're trying to like they're it's like it's like it's dirty the word

called and then it's like yeah and then asking chat GPT then being like well this must be truth yeah that GPT that was crazy yeah I was stupid I was proud of Sutton for being like guys What are y'all doing? Yeah. Nancy Drew is back. You know, to Sierra's point, I think what some of the women on Beverly Hills may be recognizing Amanda and having issue with is like this like pastiche that she presents with versus like being a real person to them.

Because I think like, not to say she isn't, but Amanda seems to me like the kind of person that really has, she manifests. She left this, like she was in this cult. She left. She had such a huge change in her life and she had to virtually reinvent herself and create herself. So I think what's happening is she's presenting just all of this artifice of this person she's created of herself. This like money, what does she call her? The money queen. Yeah, she's like, she's the money queen when she's going on TV and presenting herself to these women. And they're like,

that's not you. That's the you you've created. What is, where's the person in here? Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only, like it's a like a chicken before the egg is like, I wouldn't want to open up to a bunch of people who clearly hate my fucking guts. Agreed for the record. You know, and who are like, Tell us who you are. Tell us who are. Tell us who are. You came on Beverly Hills Housewives. There's millions of other people that are watching the show that are also asking,

who the fuck are you? I get it. But she definitely, as everyone else does, comes on to promote her business. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. When you come on these shows without having the want to be authentic and like want to get to know these people and you want to promote your business, people aren't going to fuck with you because it's just so obvious that it's fake or that you're not allowing people in that they're like, well, why would I want to watch?

She's very entertaining and she's the only. She did an interview where she said, it's hard for me to watch back, like, the confessions because she didn't realize how much people actually hated her. She said they're not Rachel. Yeah, and she's watching and, like, watching these confessions of, like, the other women actually, like, talk behind her back for the first time, and she didn't realize that, which is something to. Also, boo to Kathy. I love Kathy Elton.

Yeah. Do you say boo to Kathy? That's what they called her, right? Oh, Buddha Kathy. I thought you could boo to Kathy. No, Buddha Kathy. Because she just came out of nowhere with wise information. The recent report is about Doreet, finding for bankruptcy.

How much do we know about that? Or is that just... I don't know. She answered that on Watch What Happens Live. I don't remember her full answer to that. PK, like, didn't... That was something he was supposed to be taken care of, and he never told her that he stopped taking care of it.

And here we are. I don't know if he paid up to date or something. I remember hearing something like that, but I'm not sure I can't confirm that. But, like, that is... I will say, though, one thing that I saw that was funny about Amanda. I guess people on the internet were like coming for her this episode

and trying to claim that the dress... Dolte and Gabana and then she went into her closet. And she was like that it was a dupe and she's like I literally getting out of that. She's like I literally cannot believe that I'm doing this for you guys. Doesn't even edit the video just like one shot. And then it shows both the labels that they are authentic Dolce and Gabana but it's just like it is

kind of like where I'm like y'all there's so many things to pick at. Like you guys were really coming for like her outfit. They came for her burkin too. She had to confirm that. Mm-hmm. The woman is rich. She bought Kyle. Richard's house. I don't really think it's so much that there's a question of her wealth. Do you think she's Richard on a lot of them? I'm sure she is. Do you think that's what the core of a lot of this is? I mean, I guess that's actually kind of hard to say. It also is, it's like,

Amanda doesn't really have, like, chemistry with a lot of the women. You know what I mean? Besides Kyle. Besides Kyle. It does it feel random, though, Kyle's aligns with her, doesn't it? Well, she lives in her old house. It's also giving, like, maybe Kyle doesn't have, like, the same allies that maybe she wants had. She needs someone to help, like fight. Kyle's been on the show since the jump. So she also knows how the audience reacts to gangups and whatnot. So I think it was in her best interest in her mind to be behind Amanda because it's

like nobody likes a bunch of mean girls. Yeah. And she doesn't have to be like, oh, like Kyle's been on Beverly Hills forever. It's just bullying the new girl. And then she can kind of stay out of the drama in that way. Because there is a little bit of like, they just hate Amanda for the sake of hating Amanda. Yeah.

There's a little bit. Yeah. All right. How many more episodes before the reunion do we have? Oh, I don't know. Not many. We're getting to the end. I imagine we'll...

What episode is this? 50. Actually, I don't know because... Brava peacocks being weird with the Watch What Happens Lives episodes in the... By the way, if anyone's listening, can you guys stop doing that? No, it's so annoying.

I think it makes sense, though. No, it's confusing. I don't know what number. Watch What Happens Live does have its own way. It has its own. It has its own. Well, then why do they put it? on the Beverly Hills show. They do it for all

housewives now. If there's a housewife from that show, they'll put Watch What Happens Live after the episode, I think, to encourage people to watch their interview. So it rolls right into that episode. Which, like, I get, makes sense, but have it just be on autoplay on Peacock instead of putting it in the season thing. Truly, honestly, no one who's listening

cares about this. We care about it because we're always like, which episode are we watching tonight? No, I guarantee you a lot. Hey, if you're in the comments, let us know if you care about this, because I know you do. I have something that maybe nobody cares about, but, like, I thought was weird about this episode. Kyle and her Botega bag.

And she was like, I got this. We didn't see her buy it in, where are they? In Italy. Have that bag? The black bag that she was holding? Yeah. No, but they were,

it was, it seemed very much like, does she have a paid sponsorship with Botega? There's, I don't even know what it. They said the name a lot. I don't know what it is, but not only did they not go into the store,

but she was carrying that bag in the airport. The clip of them when they show them at the airport or whatever, it's on Kyle's shoulder. And she's like, I bought this. bag in Italy. I was like, did you buy it at the airport in Italy? Because you didn't buy it at the Botega that you all went into. Maybe it's just like editing though. Maybe like she had that bag, but there was a different bag in the way they edited. It made it sound like she was talking about

that bag. It was it's in as they're getting off of the plane, she has it on her shoulder. But she might have bought a different bag, is what I'm saying. It's the same back. I promise you. But maybe they didn't show the back she bought. That's why I said, maybe you don't care. Some people care because it's just a weird, it's a weird storyline to put in there and to emphasize Botega so much to then go into Dior and go into all of these other stores and then it's like I got this one bag that no one can get and she made this whole point about it.

Wasn't I kind of, that does bring up something that I thought was weird. Okay. This is Beverly Hills Housewives. The intro is showing all these stores and they go all the way to Italy to go to the exact same stores. They can go out in their backyard.

It's cheaper. It's cheaper out there. Of course of all, that is kind of a farce, but I think it's funny. Is it? Is it? Is it? Is it?

in Europe. I understand that because obviously the euro to American dollar. It's the tax. So it's like you go in there and you're like, oh my God, it's 1600 euros. But that's still like two grand to $2,500 when you convert it back into American dollars. So that's why I think it's just so funny that I'm like, no, it's cheaper. But you just go, you go to the little tax thing at the airport and get your tax money. Girl, nobody does that. What's that bullshit? You tell your husband's. I smuggle my bags back into the country. She's like I'm being thrifty. I bought you a bunch of like Amazon clothes so that I could get. designer. Yeah. No, that's thinking economically. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm like, listen, like, we're having two more twin girls like, oh, we can just reuse Rivers Clothes, but I'll just buy another one

of all of Rivers Clothes so that they can match. That's actually... Genius. Have we talked to Push Present yet? I've put the new... I mean, it's like impossible to get or to find, but the new Chanel collection. I've put screenshot photos of them. They're talking back. or article to put that.

My parents have done this a couple of times and I will do this, but it will be like, I can tell they want something. Uh-huh. And instead of just being like, I want this, you know, can we do it? I get the, I get, you know, all the practical reasons why this makes sense.

Because I wanted to move River into a, I wanted to redo her room and like give her a floor bed and we just bought the like toddler rail to go on, it like attaches onto her crib. she's still in her crib. It's just like a little she can get like in and out by herself. And I was like, I feel like maybe we should like redo a room and get like a twin size floor bed

because I feel like she needs more room. And I feel like she's going to sleep better. And it's like I don't like, do you just like want this? Like because you want it or do you actually think like she? Because like we just switch it. She's like, well, she's not sleeping as well. And I'm like, it's been one day. Oh, okay.

He's like she's got to adjust. And I'm like I just feel like maybe she would have already. I mean, I did. Also in your defense. it's like the bed, getting the bed, you're going to need it eventually. It doesn't really hurt to get it now. And then it's like, maybe she can switch back and forth, see what she likes. And like maybe on top of it, it could be like a little like laypan loft situation.

Yeah, or just. It's just the effort to make it sound so practical where it makes so much sense. And it's like you just want it. Did she get out of her crib? Yeah. But the carpet in her room is like, is very, thick so she can't open the door by herself. My mom had to like lock my closet because I used to go in there and tear my clothes out of the...

I was a disaster. Anyway. Well, all right. Well, thanks for listening. Appreciate our guest, Chris from Age of Attraction as well as Arden Marine. We appreciate them both and appreciate you guys listening. We'll see you next week.