The Viall Files - E110 Ask Nick- Sex with my Ex's BFF with Cathy Kelley

Episode Date: March 30, 2020

Cathy Kelley joins us as we talk to someone who feels bad about sleeping with her ex’s friend, a woman whose boyfriend speaks poorly to her, a guy who is not sure he should have broken up with his ex, and an autistic woman struggling with dating. Be proud of who you are! Get your merch at shop.viallfiles.com.  THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: OPENFIT: Text VIALL to 505050 THIRDLOVE: https://www.thirdlove.com/viall LIQUID IV: http://liquid-iv.com/ CODE: VIALL See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is going on everybody? Happy Monday to you all. I hope you are all staying safe and healthy as we embark on these strange times. Great episode today for you. I am joined by my friend Kathy Kelly, who has joined us on a Bachelor recap episode. Yes, that was so much fun. Not too long ago. Yeah, it was kind of fun.

She also watched the finale with you. She did watch the finale. That was intense. It was intense. Like, didn't really, I mean, i knew how i felt in the moment but just how everyone else was processing what we were seeing it was truly never seen before the the biggest victim in any season or a villain in any season of the bachelor being a mother of a contestant wild um we are expecting expecting to have Barb on this podcast.

We haven't recorded that yet. We were recording this before we have Barb, but I am looking forward to sitting down with Barb. I'm looking forward to listening to that. That'll be interesting. And learning her point of view. It should be fascinating. But I wanted to have Kathy come on

just because she's smart and interesting and has her own dating stories and what she can give perspective to. Kathy, if for those of you who don't know, has been killing it in the entertainment industry for some time. I know we mentioned that she was part of the OG Bachelor podcast. Yeah. Bachelor recaps with the After Buzz. Our podcasts are cool. The past couple years you've been working uh with the wwe yeah i was at wwe for four years and uh recently moved back to los angeles from stanford connecticut and brooklyn new york where i was living you were living in brooklyn yeah i was living in brooklyn

i was living in brooklyn in greenpoint and then in williamsburg the last couple years i was out there and i loved it but all of my my friends and family are out here are they yeah um so you enjoyed your time though yeah I work wise or uh life wise it was I mean I love the transition honestly moving because I I got this opportunity had to move pack up all of my stuff within 72 hours to move across the country. Thought I would be back in a couple months because I thought that I would be traveling with them and was going to be allowed to move back, but it didn't pan out that way. So I didn't say bye to a lot of people. I expected to see them, you know, a few months down the line and making friends living in Stanford was definitely hard to meet friends and make make friends with people but then moving to Brooklyn I had more of an opportunity to

to meet people my age yeah yeah I love that area we're so and then you know we talk about dating and stuff relationship status now, single in a relationship? Very single. Very single. How was dating in Brooklyn? So I was in a relationship at the time when I moved out there. That was part of the reason we chose to live together.

So I moved out of Stanford. And then after we split, I still stayed in Brooklyn for another year. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And here we are. What's next for you out in LA? Next for me? I'm trying to figure that out. I have a lot of opportunities that I've been presented with,

and it's just figuring out what I actually want, what avenue I want to pursue. I think I want to do a little bit of everything of, you know, getting into acting, still continuing to pursue I think I want to do a little bit of everything of um you know getting into acting uh still continue continuing to pursue hosting uh I think with the the industry shutting down for a little bit or or uh getting pushed back on a lot of jobs uh giving me an opportunity to really create some of my own projects and maybe delve into screenwriting a little bit that's fun yeah very cool yeah are you still doing any are you do you are you totally done with wwe do you think you'll ever do any work with them whatsoever i'm sure there'll be a time when we work together in the future uh i really enjoyed the people that I worked closely with. I worked a lot with their digital platform.

So them creating YouTube series and podcasts and doing stuff for the WWE network. That was always really enjoyable just because I got to have more creativity and ownership with it. And then I still have a really good relationship with Stefan McMahon and Triple H. They were mentors to me throughout that entire process there. And maybe we'll get to work on something together again. I remember I did an After Buzz episode with you.

It was like, I think it might've been your last one. And you said, oh, I just took this job. Was it my last one? It might've been. Cause I remember you're like, oh yeah, I'm like moving. And I'm like, oh, bye. And I didn't realize that you were you said oh i just took this job and wasn't my last one it might have been because i remember you're like oh yeah i'm like moving and i'm like oh bye and i didn't realize you were such a big you were like a huge fan i i loved it like that was that was my dream gig um for years of when i started at after buzz i became really close with uh kevin undergaro and maria menounos and And in addition to hosting a

couple of their podcasts, The Bachelor being the first one that I was a part of, I ended up doing talent booking for the entire network. And so I was in the office at the time that our executive producer was watching Monday Night Raw on Tuesday mornings. And the first week, I was like, I don't want to watch this. By week two, I was hooked. And I was watching it on my own, going to local indie shows, watching wrestlers get their start. And it was a lot of fun. How many?

Did you watch Glow at all? I love Glow. You could have been on it. Oh, they've actually had several of the cast members have come to events. So it's really cool for them to get to interact with that world as well. Yeah. They do a good job on that. Yeah.

Yeah. I loved it. Do you, I mean, you must have a, uh, an interesting male audience or fan base that you, cause it's obviously about a male. I mean, it's, it's definitely a male dominated world, I think, um, behind the scenes and as a audience.

But I think what's so interesting too, is WWE has a global audience. So you, you start to like, I could go out on the street and no one would know who I am here. And then you go to like Canada and because they would do these little, uh, snippets during Monday night raw, people would know who you am here and then you go to like canada and because they would do these little uh snippets during monday night raw people would know who you are or uh there was much more of a following a very loyal following in england and europe so really it's it's just a and i'm assuming

like certain parts of the country here too yeah yeah there are, there are cities where it's, it's, they're wrestling cities. Which? Chicago is one of them. Okay. Yeah. I feel like a lot of the same places, different audience. Yeah. A lot of the same cities that are bachelor cities would be wrestling cities. What are bachelor cities?

Chicago is a good one. Really? Basically any city in the South. Midwest. Okay. Midwest, South. Yeah. New York is actually a huge bachelor city yeah like when i go

to new york i feel i feel the buzz uncomfortable but like there's also a lot of tourists there too but there's tourists in la it's just different in new york uh but certainly the midwest you know spill your coffee and spill it on a celebrity like you're just walking down the street and you can see someone um but yeah so i i don't feel in la as much but like if i go to like home or milwaukee or any any any smaller midwest city yeah uh is definitely uh well uh should we get to some of these uh callers and share our uh do you feel like when you uh because you've been in relationships and you've had ones you know you're single now and it hasn't worked out do you do you feel like when you, because you've been in relationships and you've had ones, you know, you're single now

and it hasn't worked out. Do you feel like you've also gotten better? Like, do you give your friends advice too? Because that's with me. People always ask me like, how do you get good at this or whatever? I'm just like, because I've like,

I've been in a bunch of like crap relationships and I've done crappy things and I've like learned. I have mixed emotions of it. I feel like i'm really good at giving advice to friends and i'm really well equipped to do that just because of all the the situations dating situations that i put myself in but then i question like is my advice that good if it hasn't worked out for me yeah i mean i guess it just all depends on of knowing you know it's

like well i've it's more like what i find like what we do in the show it's just more like what are like a lot of our calling you'll find you'll find to hear this episode there's other episodes it's like people will they'll address the situation and they kind of there's always i always find there's always something else that that's bugging them that they don't want to admit to themselves and it's kind of usually getting people to admit that to themselves first and then they get some more clarity and that's that's kind of where i've been of um there have been i'm sure many situations that i didn't handle with the most maturity in my past but getting to a place where i feel like i'm uh smarter in my decisions

and i don't know i've i don't think any of the relationships or romantic dating scenarios that I've been in have ended poorly, even though they've ended. You've never had a bad break? No, no, no. Recently. Like the last, I would say three or four years. Gotcha. Yeah. What kind of guy are you looking for? What kind of guy am I looking for? I think in my life right now, I'm looking for someone that brings similar things to the table that I do of still wanting to grow, but also being at a place where they're really comfortable in themselves. Yeah, you realize now in my life, I've had so many insecurities that I've had to deal with. And I'm, you know, still overcoming them. But I think I've gotten to a place where I actually feel whole. I don't buy into the whole thing of needing my other half. And, you know, in relationships in the past, I've definitely made a lot of sacrifices and realizing like, I want someone who wants to compromise.

sacrifices and realizing like, I want someone who wants to compromise. You know, I want someone who's comfortable with like a working woman who can also take care of the kids and like, have this balance, not feed into the idea of what someone else wants. Nice. Yeah. What's the insecurity that you have? I feel like... Oh, I have so many insecurities. Sure. But I feel like a lot of people look at you and would guess it would hard to believe. No, I was the shyest kid growing up.

I told you I had braces twice. I was not popular. I had no friends. I had one friend when I was in elementary school. And then I think, you know, a couple towards the end of senior year of high school. I was just I was this shy, awkward theater kid that my mom was working so much i was her only kid so i was i was spending a lot of time alone by myself you're an only child yeah well i'm my mom's only my dad he was never really in the picture he left um before i was born but he had

uh two sons that were 11 and 15 years older than me. Do you have any relationship with them? Very little relationship, just more of like, hey, how are you? Every few months, but yeah, my dad and I don't have a relationship. So yeah, it was a lot of like, I'm such an advocate now for going to see a therapist and for mental health because there

were so many things that I struggled with not even realizing, kind of suppressing them in thinking that I was okay with everything and realizing that I was really seeking out validation in friendships, in romantic relationships, and even in work work and sometimes that i was good enough because i had this person that was supposed to be a significant part of my life leave at such a young age yeah that's that's great i mean no no no it's great i i know i like to ask these questions because i mean you know people i'm sure look at you and people like to make assumptions of everyone and it's always nice to have you know someone like you share these stories because it's just relatable and it makes people feel like oh okay yeah i've been there or even like just mental health or if

if so and so can admit to it or own that and it makes it safer for everyone to kind of admit to it or own that and that makes it safer for everyone to kind of do it as well so that's thanks for sharing it's just a lot of fun uh well let's uh let's get to these uh let's get to these calls and uh i think it will be a lot of fun don't forget to send your questions at ask nick at cast me.com cast with a k always need your calls and uh your 10 percenters out there. We love to hear from you. All right, well, let's get to it. Open Fit. Well, you know what? What a great time to find great different workouts to do in the comfort of your home.

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It's a must do. Must have. Yes. Well, I'm constantly trying to stretch more. So I do yoga with it. With OpenFit? Yeah, because I don't like doing yoga at yoga studios because I'm bad at it. Nice.

It's perfect for that for me. Yeah, that's great. No better time to get that OpenFit and learn different and exciting ways to stay in shape and sculpt your body and have a ton of fun. From your living room. Yeah, that's right. OpenFit has changed the way we work out. And with my code VIALL, you can join me on a fitness journey personalized just for you. Right now, my listeners get a 14-day free trial membership to OpenFit when you text VIALL to 505050. Try it for free or your money back.

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Delicious. Yeah, it tastes good. I actually drink it with my meals. I do. It's like, I don't, it's like a, kind of like, instead of having like a sugary drink, it's like a little, it's a lemon lime treat that also hydrates my body. Get 25% off when you go to liquidiv.com and use code VIALL at checkout. That's 25% off anything you order on Liquid IV's website. Just go to liquidiv.com and enter promo code V-I-A-L to save 25% off and get better hydration and energy. That's

liquidiv.com, promo code V-I-A-L. Don't wait. Start feeling your adventures today. How's it going? Hey, Nick. It's Sarah. I'm 24. Hi, Sarah, 24. How can we help? All right.

So, it's a little complicated. I moved to New City recently, and I have a couple of friends that are from my hometown that introduced me to one of their friends from college. He's best friends with my ex-boyfriend, and we've ended up romantically involved for the past six, seven months now. So are you dating or are you just having sex? So we're not dating, and we say that we can't date because that would be messed up. And his... It's more fun that way too. Yeah. You're having sex though.

So we didn't have sex until two months ago, which is insane because I've never not had sex with someone for so long. Okay. Okay. So all right. But we are currently sleeping with each other yeah yeah okay okay all right so and then continue yeah i just want to make sure you know you never know never assume yeah no um so we started having sex and even when we weren't having sex we were sleeping with each other like like just, you know, side by side, hooking up, everything but sex.

When your friends introduced you guys, were they aware that he was friends with your ex-boyfriend? So it's like another friend that's within that group as well. So absolutely. Okay. Are they still, are those two still friends? Yeah. Okay. Everyone's still friends, but the ex still doesn't know.

And how long ago was the ex-boyfriend? When did you guys break up? We broke up a long time ago, but we stayed in contact and we stayed sleeping together up until a year and a half ago. Okay. That's pretty new. I mean, that happens. So what is your question is he doesn't know what should I do

going forward or is there more to the story yeah so I feel like I can't push it forward because I can't be like hey like you should tell your friend where it might risk your friendship for me because like I don't necessarily want a boyfriend right now but I'm also like I like you so much so what the fuck do I do when you say you don't necessarily want a boyfriend right now, what do you mean? Like, I've been busy all the time. I want to have my young adult life. But at the same time, I'm still not seeing anyone else. So it's like, I'm basically dating.

So just to be clear, you really aren't looking for a boyfriend, but you kind of like him. And this has nothing to do with being afraid of telling yourself you don't want to have a boyfriend because you're afraid of this messy situation blowing up in your face. Okay. So if he was like, I want you to be my girlfriend, I'd totally be like, yes. That's fine. I'll make sure. So even trying to play cool girl on the phone. Yeah. Just chill. Yeah. Like we'll So even try to play cool girl on the phone. Yeah. Just chill. Yeah, like, we'll take it easy. Have you broached the subject? No, we'll do...

Yeah. Sorry, what was it? Have you broached the subject with him about either A, actually dating, or what does he say about this situation? Because quite honestly, it seems like it's more on him than you. It is. That's the issue. It's more on him, and I don't like not having the control. But my thing is we've tried to end it, I think, twice before.

We're like, oh, this is kind of messed up. Like, we shouldn't do this. Like, that was like right away after we first started hooking up because I felt bad. He felt bad. And then we were like, oh, two weeks later, like, Hey, how are you? So then we tried to end it again. And then things all of a sudden got like really serious. We're like,

no, like we really care about each other. So what do we do now? Okay. Well, you're past the point of no return. Is it, is it with regards to like,

if you guys were going to like not do this out of consideration for your ex and his friend that's that's we're well past that like there's no going back and that's fine whatever um but at what point am i like hey we should tell him or well just wait for us to end it abruptly i'm of the opinion i don't know what k thinks, but like he's your ex-boyfriend and I understand that we don't want to go out of our way to hurt our exes and we don't want to be cruel,

but like he's your ex and by definition, he's not a part of your life. Now, this guy, however, is still friends with him and I appreciate he wants to protect that friendship. What he's doing now is wrong.

And I guess what I'm saying, but it's like, listen, he's doing the thing, right? You can't change that. That's what I mean by you're past the point of no return. So if he wants to solve his friendship,

he needs to be upfront, kind of like a man and just kind of deal with it. You know, if his feelings for you are sincere and real, then you should figure it out with him. Also like, yeah, like, why don't you guys just stop pretending to like, just have sex and do this thing you're doing, but like, we can't date because of the situation the situation is it's it it is what it is like trust me when this guy finds out if he does care because who knows maybe he'll be

like you know what i'm happy for you guys i don't know but if he does care probably not if he does care when you guys are like well i mean listen we're not actually dating we're just fucking like that's not gonna be like oh oh okay then it's fine like that's not gonna happen so like you know i feel like he can't publicly care because he now has his like girlfriend that of a little over a year people are still gonna have feelings regardless whether it's a feeling toward you still romantic feelings towards you or embarrassment of other people in his life knowing and not sharing it maybe mistrust because these people who he cares about were keeping the secret totally because like now you're now they've the real issue isn't the fact

that you guys are hooking up or dating it's like now that it's been going on for so long his first question this guy is going to be like well now that it's been going on for so long his first question this guy is going to be like well how long has this been going on for how long have you been doing this where you didn't tell me and that will be the biggest problem it won't be like the fact that you're doing but i feel like we don't need to like disclose how long if it does come out he's probably gonna ask it's gonna there are gonna be a lot of questions how many people know how many people know um so i mean all of my friends uh that are from college so he doesn't really have a relationship with any of them but a good amount of his good friends know yeah so my advice to you would be going to this new guy and saying, we need to do the right thing.

And he needs to kind of step up and be honest. Because it's kind of a red flag on his part to be... On his part, yeah. You really have to think about... It's very easy to gravitate towards people in similar friend groups just because obviously you all enjoy each other's company. So you're going to have similarities there. But really taking a look at if this relationship is something that could be real. If there aren't those, that chemistry there of that forbidden romance that like you guys are able to hide it because sometimes that

makes things more exciting yeah totally there's an element there so at first i was kind of like oh am i doing this because like i'm kind of being spiteful or anything and we addressed that too and he was like you probably only want me because you can't have me and i was oh, that might be it. But I mean, it's been months now and I'm too deep just for that to be the case. Yeah, so you really like him and you would like him to be your boyfriend? Yes. If he wanted to be.

That's a yes. That's neither here nor there. Ideal scenario. Totally a yes. Okay. Like, it doesn't change things just because you're like you know your ego is like oh well only if he wants to like you want to date him and you'll be super bummed if he called

you up today and said i'm you know i don't want to see you anymore oh my god yeah yeah yeah i'd be heartbroken but it's fine sure you will be fine but it's okay to admit that you'll be heartbroken. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you should say to this guy, listen, we need to – I think it's also okay for you to say, like, I really like you and I don't want to stop. Like, we've had this fun, but, like, I want this to be a real thing or I want it to end. want it to end um because i've said this before i on other shows like you can't you can't pretend something that you can't keep pretending something that's not it used to be this one thing but now like you even said it's changed you have real feelings so whether you tell yourself you're just doing it for the sex or not doesn't change the fact that in reality you like him and it will only get messier if you keep pretending it's something that it's not uh you'll keep lying to yourself and say you don't care

meanwhile you're like well if we're not dating does that mean you can hook up with other people and the fact that he's willing to lie to his friend is he willing to lie to me too you're just gonna like you're gonna be you know create a rabbit hole um and so you needed you know maturely to another adult who's probably around your age you know your two 24 year olds how old is he yeah so your two adults who should be adults about an adult situation

and it's like it's fine I feel like that totally is like hey like you should tell them and then it's like hey like you should tell him and then it's like hey like i'm not ready for that so we should step you can separate the conversations as well of i know that it puts you in a vulnerable place but asking him hey before we continue on can we have this conversation just so that we're on the same page yeah also if he said i'm not ready to tell him i would that's a red flag Why? When are you going to be ready?

And why are you so willing? I get it. We both did this. Don't put the blame on him and don't burden him. But we did this and we need to deal with this. And like adults, we need to address this. And I don't want either of us to be dishonest with him. He's not my boyfriend. But as a human being, I just don't us to be dishonest with him. He's not my boyfriend, but as a human being,

I just don't want to be dishonest, and this sneaking around has been kind of fun, but I'm tired of doing that. And his response to that will be telling about his ability to be honest and mature. That's true. That's true. I get that. And I kind of figured it would be this, but I think my issue is I'm just not ready to let it go.

Yeah, I think admit to yourself that you like him. Stop pretending you don't. Stop pretending that you're too busy to have a boyfriend. And maybe you are. If this guy wasn't in the picture, you wouldn't necessarily need a boyfriend you'd focus on your career but like it's not about it like you you you date someone when you meet someone that you like enough to date that's it you know oh have you made a lot of friends in this new town that you're in uh yeah no definitely and i've tried to date um within the six months i was kind of still trying to see other people that way i was like oh like i'll just lean myself off like no big deal um and i last saw somebody i think like four months ago but i'm just like i'm not really interested in anyone else like what you like yeah you like well i mean moving to a new place not knowing that many people is really tough i think that you know maybe there is some vulnerability there of this is comfort from home

comfort of someone that you you know in the past yeah well i didn't know him but i knew like his friend the group yeah as well no i i totally get what kathy's saying and she's definitely right but it doesn't change the fact that right now you like the guy I guess what I'm saying is you just need to address that situation and if to Kathy's point if he doesn't respond the way he should you should pay attention to that and you shouldn't ignore it and if it doesn't work out if eventually it gets too messy and you realize like, you know what, this was a very telling reaction, then, you know, be optimistic about the fact that you like haven't really giving yourself a chance to like meet all the new people you would certainly meet by moving to a big city. And kind of breaking away from this initial, you know, just not necessarily breaking off this group,

but expanding it. Yeah, not feeling like you would be lonely because there's so much opportunity to meet people and expand your social life. Rochelle, in times like these, let's talk about bras. Let's talk about comfortable bras. Comfortable bras. That you can order from the comfort of your home. And when you're just lying on the couch, I'm assuming you want the most comfortable bra you can find. Oh, yeah. The thing I love about Third Love is you take a quiz online.

It's called the Fit Finder Quiz. It's actually fun to do. And it helps you figure out what kind of bra is going to fit your boobs the perfect way. Because listen, we're all shaped differently. No one knows that better than us. Right, Nick? You know. I know.

I know. And they have a perfect fit promise. So you can have 60 days to wear it. If you don't like it, you can return it and they donate it to women in need. So it's a win-win. I took the Fit Finder quiz and I found out I'm between sizes. So this is one of the only companies that comes in half sizes. So I was able to order that and it fits so much better than my other bras.

Third Love knows there's a perfect bra for everyone. So right now they are offering my listeners 15% off your first order. Go to thirdlove.com slash V-I-A-L-L now to find your perfect fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase. That's thirdlove.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 15% off today. Like when you get older, you don't just have one group of friends. You kind of have multiple groups of friends. At least I did, right?

Like different people and you might meet someone who introduces you to their group of friends and you enjoy them and they don't really even mesh with your other group of friends. I've had that happen where it's just like, you know what?

Maybe you guys will interact, but I don't really need that to happen. this is also worst case scenario is we're getting ahead of ourselves and thinking like if this doesn't work out between you two because you guys could have a conversation where you are honest with him and saying that you want to see where things go either exclusively or take that next step in whatever you guys are doing. And he responds in the same way. Yeah. Yeah. We'll prepare for both. Also, like, listen, if you two both really like each other, it's not going to necessarily help the other, you know, your ex understand it. But if you are sincere and saying, listen, we dislike each other. I'm sorry. You know, like,

at least you're sincere about that, which is better than like, I don't know. We were bored and we decided to have sex. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's like, I feel like that's not as bad though.

No, you can have, because that response would be like, if my buddy did that, right. I'd be like, you could have had sex with anyone. Why do you have to have sex with my ex?

There are six billion people in the world. Like, if it's just about sex, just have sex. But if someone's like, listen listen it didn't work out with you but i love her and it's just like well i guess did you break up with the uh your ex yeah okay well that's that's gonna make it harder yeah so that's why i felt bad because i was like wow i've already hurt you and like now i am here again. But he has a girlfriend, right? Yeah, I heard she's great.

Sure. I don't know her. Got to do the right thing, right? Sometimes the right thing is hard. And it's definitely more on him because he's still the friend. But I think if I were you, it would bother me that he is not willing to do the right thing. It's never going to get easier.

There's never going to be a right time. The longer he waits, it will only make it worse and harder for his friend to accept. So I think he needs to be honest and show humility and ask for forgiveness. And he might not get it. But I think you guys should also have an honest conversation with each other. And maybe you can prompt it by saying, because if it's just a fuck buddy situation, then maybe just actually end it. And you don't have to tell the guy, I don't know. But if you do care about each other

and it sounds like you do, then first address that and be honest with each other and saying, I like you and I want to date you. So we need to like deal with this because what I don't want to keep doing is pretending we only want to have sex. And I don't think we do that. We do talk about our feelings.

Okay. But it's like, okay, we have these feelings, but it has to stop like before we can be like. No, it doesn't have to stop. You just have to have a tough conversation. You know, it's messy. It's life. It'll be fine. You know, this can happen.

It's not ideal, but you know, stuff happens. Okay. We'll see how it goes. It's life. It'll be fine. You know, this can happen. It's not ideal, but, you know, stuff happens. Okay. We'll see how it goes. Keep us posted. I will. All right. Thank you, guys. Best of luck.

Have you ever been into an ex's friend? No, but I did go through a situation where I was dating someone and his ex started dating his roommate. Dating someone and his ex started, okay. Yeah. So it was just, it was a very messy situation that I think brought up. How did that make you feel?

I felt comfortable at first. I was friends with that entire group or everyone who's living together at the time. And it did bring up a lot of past feelings for the guy that i was dating at the time so like in this you're like the the other girl when she was like oh i think her she's cool you're that girl yeah we we ended up parting ways obviously um and this is almost a decade ago at this point but it it was really tricky i think for for all parties involved and because there was so much secrecy i think it made things that much worse yeah um yeah it's tough yeah messy but i've also been in situations where you think that it's it's more fun because

you're just you're keeping it secret from people because yeah but what's weird though is the only thing they're actually doing wrong is hiding it because it's not a crime to fall for like that can happen and if you are sincere then you just have to do the right thing yeah even if that means making someone upset how's it going good how. How are you? Good. What's your name? So my name is Jamie. I am 24 and I'm from Orlando, Florida. All right. So long story short, I have been dating someone who is 30 years old. We started dating, I don't know, I think it was like 10 months ago.

And everything was great and fine and dandy. know i think it was like 10 months ago and everything was great and finding dandy and then come to now um i'm starting to realize that there's a lot of baggage that comes with this human being um he's a great person don't get me wrong but um he pretends that there is no baggage and then with either drinking or this kind of feels like it um just kind of dumps all of it out all at one time it's basically like drop giant bomb you know on me um and it's all his personal issues it's not about me it's it's things like you know just like randomly like for example we were at a brewery and my card got declined and he was like uh that guy, that's so embarrassing. Like, I can't believe that happened. Like, don't be like your deadbeat dad.

Like, things like that. Like, just nasty comments. And I was asking for help. Mind you, he lived with me for four months and paid no rent, no groceries, nothing. And he was talking about his card getting declined. My card getting declined. And mind you, I have money. That's not the about his card getting there, my card getting declined. And mind you, I have money. That's not the issue. It was just the wrong card. Just things like that. And so it causes issues. I have no idea what to do. Like I said, everything was great and fine

and dandy. And then here we are and these little things start coming up. So I'd say currently it's like 90% good, 10% bad, but I'm really concerned that What's the 90% good? So giving a little backstory, I was in a relationship prior to him. I moved across the country for a different guy. So I moved, I was in love with this person, come to find out this person was in multiple relationships. I was not the only one. So I was, I've, I've been in a relationship where I know like, you know, this person is not all in for me at all. He's clearly, you know, he's just not the right person and I could feel that

so this one I mean the way he looks at me is the way I've always wanted somebody to look at me I mean genuinely like this person loves me he would never hurt me but it's just like these random times where it's like well that was hurtful like so it's very contradicting of, of, you know, he, he looks at me, he tells me he loves me, he's in awe of me. And then, you know, just randomly, I'd say every like once a month, we, he comes out with like these Hiroshima bombs and just drops them on me. And I don't know what to do with my hands. Like I have no idea what to do. Well, um, my initial first takeaway is just because someone's better than your last boyfriend doesn't mean they're great. Only to find out that they were in multiple relationships must be a very hurtful, even embarrassing experience that you never thought you would go through. And you definitely have some baggage of your you feel safe. And almost in a weird way,

his kind of toxic behavior, while terrible, makes you feel in this kind of fucked up way that he really loves you because he's so crazy and so insane with like how he acts sometimes. But if nothing else, that makes you feel like he's not going anywhere, which kind of, you know, makes sense why you desire that type of feeling because there was a lot of distrust and a lot of things going on in the past relationship. So don't confuse a little bit better with a lot of better because my guess is it's not 90% great. You know, my guess is it's like 20% 80 bad but that great's better than what you had before and you're you know deep down that you don't deserve to be treated this way whether it's once a month or every day yeah i agree and the i think the complicated issue which adds to the

situation and i know that i should have never done it but I also work with him I mean I mean literally when I say work with him I mean like we sit in front of each other like it's bad it's been 10 months you said at what point did he move in with you and how did that come about early on he had sold the house so it okay, well, it was more of a situation. It wasn't like, yes, let's move in. This is the right timing. It was primarily situational. Did it make you feel good that he needed you in that moment?

Yes and no. While I do like the feeling, obviously, of, you know, I'm helping somebody. This is somebody special to me. I want to help them. I want to help through this, you know, time. It's now, you know, it's my house. Like this is my place. And I, now I'm finally getting some rent, but you know, I, I, now I'm like kind of looking back and thinking like, okay, maybe I was just at a point in my life where I had this picture of what a good relationship looks like and just threw him in front of it instead of putting him in the forefront and saying, okay, take the picture and let me see if this fits with what I need. So now I'm starting to think I don't think this person is right for me. I don't think this person is right for me. And the issue is, how do I separate this, move on with his life, while working with this human being?

And now he also lives with me. So this is a real situation. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely messier with the combination of living and working with him. But it's not like an impossible situation it's sure that sucks and it's awkward but uh he can move out at any moment it's your house so step one be like hey if you want to break up with him you break up with him and he has to leave and if he's weird about that you know we can always call the cops but like you know what i'm saying like super inconvenient awkward tough conversation certainly a tough

maybe a week or two while he figures his shit out but like whatever you know that and then as far as work goes once again does hr are aware of your dating or like is it a huh no no okay well that might be something to talk about yeah um so you've also mentioned that it's 90% good, 10% bad, but then a couple minutes later and more into us questioning, you said that you're trying to get out of this situation or assess where it's at because you realize that it might not be the healthiest. So where is your gut right now? Do you feel like this is something that you should continue to pursue or it's something that you should take a step back from i mean ultimately i i think i i think i know what i need to do i think i've just been kind of seeking a little bit of reassurance that like you know the fear has always been like i don't

want to throw something away that actually is good like maybe i'm i'm just being harsh i don't think that i am i think that i and i know i i think that's just hearing it i think is just nice to know like i'm not throwing something away that that i should be kind of pursuing or giving him a chance to pursue. Like there, there's a difference between, you know, still needing to grow up and, and, you know, move past things. But if you're not moving past them, like you're a grown ass man, you shouldn't need me to tell you, get your life together because I'm not. And I laid it out. I said, if X then Y,

if you do not take care of these things and fix what needs to be fixed, I'm out. Yeah. So that's kind of that. It's like I have had that conversation. I basically told him, like, this happens again and I will remove your things and you will be done. And this is over. Like, there's no questions asked about it. So I've had this conversation.

And it's unfortunate because now I feel like I'm just sitting in this waiting period. And I almost do just want to pull the plug. He's showing his true colors now. You said the first couple months were good and fine and dandy, but that's the honeymoon phase of when we're all putting our best foot forward and not sharing any of that emotional baggage that we have because we want that person to like us. And in a lot of cases, we are seeking out these relationships for validation in your case of that you would have a relationship of someone that really needed and wanted you. Also, I mean, I think the bigger issue here in terms of the things that you share that are issues

is that the way he talks to you, the way he speaks to you when he's frustrated or mad or whatever you like the him the fact that he's lazy and kind of immature um that's not great either and you have certainly have a right to that to bother you but if if the worst thing about him was he's kind of lazy and whatever but like respectful of you uh looked at you a certain way uh did all these things but he's just kind of like listen you could be in a relationship like that and i wouldn't be you know that's fine but you just like i think you know you're trusting your gut too it's like how he talks to you and that's the first thing you said and that's

i think that's probably i mean to me when i hear that's the reason why you should end a relationship for sure you know whether you're willing to put up with someone's kind of not being as motivated as you are that's a personal decision but it's never should be okay for you to have someone like overreact and belittle you and kind of project their own shit onto you uh because my guess is like if you you're the one who has their shit together he doesn't and that whole like card being rejected thing was an opera opportunity for him to like lower you down a peg because he feels insecure about himself that's immature and that's not okay and that's probably behavior is not going to change because he's not aware that he's you know gonna do that um it's one thing for you to

kind of be lazy and be like listen this is who i am and i love you you know gonna do that um it's one thing for you to kind of be lazy and be like listen this is who i am and i love you you know like and you can be like yeah he's kind of a he's kind of an idiot and he's kind of lazy but he's my lazy idiot and he makes me feel really good and he's super sweet and he does other things that make me feel happy you know what no judgment but he's kind of a dick um but if you have your shit together too, don't let this affect your work life because I know how hard that is to not mesh those things and have them separate. If you're saying that you guys work in very close quarters,

I've had to work with an ex in the past, someone that I lived with, and it was uncomfortable for us. But I think the best way to go about it is to not let anyone else know in your working environment that something's changed. If you guys do go your separate ways, still treat him with respect at work and not really go and gossip to other people. Yeah. I mean, there's always this debate on whether you should tell HR or not or or whether HR is your friend, and that's's going to not act that way let him burn the bridge let other people see that behavior um but you don't want it to affect your money you

don't want it to affect yeah um you know your job performance because clearly you are the one that's taking care of yourself and and him at some points too yeah Yeah, absolutely. And that's, I think, was the thing that I worried the most about is I don't trust how he's going to react. I can't, you know, obviously I can only control myself and that's what I plan to do. I just would hate for somebody to ruin an opportunity for myself.

Like I'm doing really well and I moved here and I got a job at a really good organization. So I just don't want him putting my job at jeopardy because he's you know got his panties in a lot you know and i just i it's and again something for you to take a look into but like you might want to consider if you do have a big concern about how he will react is letting hr know like hey like we hung out. It's,

it's over. We're no longer hanging out. And I just want to make you aware of it because, because what would, if he, if, if he starts acting a certain way and everyone's like, what's going on here,

it's going to eventually going to like, he might say something, you know, and just blast it out. And then you don't want to look like you're hiding it. So you might want to get ahead of it. Yeah. And I don't think that that's an opportunity to say anything bad about him. You just say, I wanted to make you aware that this relationship happened. And we know that, you know, that's always tricky if it is two co-workers dating each other, but now it's ending. And I just wanted to. Yeah. And you probably don't have to give them the details of how long you dated or dated.

Just say, we hung out romantically outside of work. I'm choosing to end it. And I just want you guys to be aware because I just want to... No one else at work knows. I want to be very professional. But I think it's time for you guys... I want to disclose this information because I'm making this decision to end it. I don't know if he'll be happy about it, but I want you guys to know.

That might be smart knowing that you just don't know how he's going to react. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Yeah. So, yeah. But it sounds like we're breaking up here and you can stop telling yourself that, you know, I'm 90% happy. to what it was like at the beginning or promises that were made or this idea of what you thought that they would be. And when it doesn't pan out that way, you don't necessarily want to give it up because it is better than past relationships or it's almost what you want and you believe in

this potential. I totally agree. And all the fear about like, oh, I'm worried about ruining a good thing. My guess is, especially considering how your past relationship went, you'll probably feel very good about yourself and very empowered once you get through the mess of it all. And you're like the logistics that you know, you're worried about and like, oh, how's it moving and the job and et cetera, et cetera. But I think you'll feel good saying, you know what? I know I deserved better. i wasn't happy and instead of like staying in a kind of a toxic situation i chose to give myself a chance to find something better because i know i deserve it and i think that will you'll feel good about yourself i agree i think the decision is right up well we we're glad we could help you get to that point but uh yeah just be smart um you know be thorough get ahead of it

um and uh and this you know be kind to him but don't rip the band-aid off you know i'm also really proud of you that you learned this lesson so early on in your life and not some time when it was more significant like you know 35 and a big job on the line. This is, this is something that I think everyone in some capacity goes through and, and you survived it. Yeah. Especially given your past situation, it would be very common for someone in your situation to just keep saying, well, this is better than what I had. And he's, he won't leave me, you know? Yeah. Don't settle. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and you have a lot going

for you. So, uh, you know, don't let these guys drag you down. Yeah. Well, thank you guys.

All right. Well, best of luck. Yes. Thank you. All right. Take care. What a delightful young lady.

It's good. Head on her shoulders. Yeah. The HR stuff's always like, I always get like a little, i don't like i don't know what you should do with that because people have people have people have strong opinions on both sides of like telling hr or saying hr is not your friend yeah i think it's it's definitely situational but um i mean have you ever dated someone that you've worked with? No. It's so tough, especially in the entertainment industry,

because you end up working with everyone eventually, but in a small town or in a small place. But this one, because he's so unpredictable and she doesn't know how he's going to react, I think she should get ahead of it. Yeah. How's it going? Good. How are you?

Good. What's your name? My name is Hunter and I'm 21 years old. Hunter 21, 10 percenter. Thanks for calling, buddy. Looks like you live in a forest too. What's that? It looks like you live in a forest. There's so many trees.

Pine trees behind you? Yes. We're in a very country area. there's a lot of maple tree we have about six maple trees around oh i love it yeah looks nice actually from wisconsin are you where you are is that where you're calling from wisconsin yeah what part um near lacrosse okay yeah good area yeah how can we help you hunter yeah so Yeah. So I just kind of have a question about, I recently broke up with my girlfriend about two months ago. It was a mutual breakup. Both of us were just agreed, we're on the same terms, which was good. And so not a bad breakup by any means. We were together about 14 months,

loved each other, enjoyed being together, attracted to each other physically, emotionally. However, we didn't have a ton of the same interests. And that started to become a little bit of an issue as the relationship went on. However, the biggest reason we kind of broke up was because of kind of a gut feeling we both had that we weren't the one for each other. one for each other. Like we'd feel super in love one day and then the next kind of had this weird gut feeling of, you know, maybe we aren't, you know, maybe we aren't supposed to be the ones to get married. And just kind of maybe we overthought it, maybe we didn't, but just kind of this gut feeling that we both had and both had it, you know, expressed to each other. So my question kind of is, you know, is it normal? Is it a valid reason to break up because of this not having the feeling of being in love

or not like 100% in love? Not having the feeling of being 100% in love 100% of the time. You know, having this gut feeling that maybe we aren't the one for each other. Yeah, I think that's totally valid especially at 21 how old is she yeah she's 22 a year old yeah okay uh i think it's totally valid i mean i think at 21 you know ignorance is bliss sometimes so sometimes when you're 21 it's what's more common at least it was for me and a lot of my friends i don't't know how it was for Kathy that you like, you're just like so in love and everything's just super intense and you're just like fantasizing about the future and, and you kind of realize I'm like, okay,

maybe we just got a little excited at once we start to annoy, annoy each other. Um, and it sounds like in this relationship, you guys, you know, it's quite honestly, it sounds like more of like a older more mature relationship where it's like yeah we like we hang out i was gonna say you guys are so mature that you guys ended mutually at that young of an age you know and so yeah go ahead i was just gonna say that yeah i think that um we just kind of we talked about that as well just feeling like um we're both i think we're both more mature people for our age kind of in a way. So we kind of thought about that more.

But also I think maybe a little bit to a fault that maybe we thought about it maybe a little too much. I don't know if you would think that, but I don't know if there's an age you're supposed to think about that. I mean, no, there's no right or wrong, but it sounds like you guys were trusting your your guts which is a positive thing to do when you weren't like again like this is not the case for everyone but at least it was for me when you're younger it's like you don't ask yourself these kind of questions in fact you know when i first fell in love it was like i'm the most in love couple and like you have these like insane kind of like things that you measure romance by well that's also how the the media or tv or movies portray it is is you potentially meeting this young love and going your entire life um with obstacles but making it through with this one person and especially in the midwest i

can't even describe i also grew up there of how many people get married in their early 20s and how that's a norm. And I'm sure that there's some sort of pressure to have found your person at this stage in your life. Yeah. So there's no answer. I mean, and the way you guys seem to have handled it, it seems like if you ever were to get back together, you guys might have put yourselves in a position to do that, right? But it seems like you both, and it doesn't need both of you to do this, even if it was just you to say, there's something inside me that wants to explore something. You're at the time of your life where you owe it to yourself to do that. I don't think you can be too pragmatic at that young of an age

you know also i am such a strong believer of if it's meant to be it'll work itself out so maybe you guys need yeah i i i do believe that of why aren't you i think shit happens oh yeah shit happens but maybe maybe she ends up getting married a year from now and 10 years from now she gets a divorce and you guys find yourself both single and like then you have 50 years together like there's i guess what i've always kind of you'll realize if it's meant to be i'll go with what i always say is like i think things work themselves out right um That's the same thing. No, no, no, no.

I could go on and on about this. I mean, in this situation, I think we're kind of agreeing, but like you made the choice to break up. And I don't think necessarily that like, what I'm saying is I don't think somehow they were preordained to meet only to have to break up. No, no, no. I'm saying that if six months from now you decide, wow, this person is incredible and I want to share my life with her, you can go back and say,

hey, can we try this again? Yeah. I agree with Kathy there that you guys have set yourself up that if this person happens to be someone you do care about, that maybe it was just too early. You've given yourselves an opportunity to find each other again in life. My guess is it won't happen. You know, my guess is you might be friends. Are you guys still friends? Are you? Yeah, well, we're kind of still friends.

Just talk off and on and off. It's kind of been, you know, a better breakup than I feel like, you know, most talk about. Yeah. You know, we have talked about, you know, if it's meant to be, it'll be. See? She was moving away at the time. I know people say it. But yeah, and part of it, too, was we broke up actually two times before then in the 14 months and got back together pretty quickly after that.

And so this time it was like, okay, it's the third time. I think it's finally that we take some time apart. Yeah, I think you guys owe it to yourselves to like, it's very easy in this situation to break up, get bored, and get back together. It might take you a year to like meet someone worth your time to want to date. And at 21, there's nothing wrong with being single and dating casually and just meeting people and focusing on other aspects of your life and same for her. And if she jumps into a relationship sooner than you, it's going to affect you, but certainly not a time to panic.

And just because you guys haven't found someone in three or four months and you miss each other, of course you miss each other. You like each other. You respect each other. You've had a lot of fun together. You've dated for a reason. Like your ability to have fun together and have a nice time together and enjoy each other's company is not why you broke up. So that's why people often get back together in these situations because it's like, well, I mean, why not?

I mean, also, if you don't give yourself that space, it's okay to still text each other or call each other. But sometimes, at least from my experience in becoming friends with exes, if I don't have that physical space, it's really easy to fall back into it. Yeah. And I think there's a distinction you want to make

is that you haven't become friends with her. What you are is friendly with her. is that you haven't become friends with her. What you are is friendly with her. Because to become friends with her would mean to really have that period. And I believe that only happens when you have some real space. Like you don't talk for six to 12 months. You've dated other people. Physical space and time. And maybe a year from now you reconnect and say, oh, so good to see you.

And you like slowly build a friendship from there. This transition is what you guys are, is you guys keeping each other close enough and being friendly while you're figuring it out because you're used to having each other around. And that's very different. So you're not actual friends. You're just being friendly with your ex. And there's definitely a difference there. Yeah.

No, yeah, that makes sense. It did help. I think that she actually moved across the country to be with her ex. And there's definitely a difference there. Yeah. No, yeah, that makes sense. It did help, I think, that she actually moved across the country to be with her family. So it was like, it almost was basically a perfect... So she's out of the picture now in terms of like literally physically.

Right, right, exactly. So it didn't allow us to have any, you know, she's like, I'm moving and, you know, that's going to happen. And so, you know, we don't have any chance. So where are you now?

You're just like, so you just, you want to have any chances. So where, where are you now? You're just like, so you just, you're, you, you want to make sure that it's you're not saying no to a good thing. Right. Yeah, exactly. Cause you know, obviously she was a really great person and someone that we did talk about the future with a lot. And so I think it just kind of that gut feeling thing. I just thought, you know, a lot of people probably can relate to that maybe a little bit and just, um, you know, going, I

don't know if you guys have had relationships where you're just, um, you know, you have this gut that say, maybe we aren't the best, even though we love each other and we're attracted to each other. And I mean, I was less mature than you are at your age. I, would i still might be less mature i would i would uh i would you know no matter how toxic it was i would say i can make this work yeah kind of thing uh and we're going against your gut because you believe in the possibility of something well it was almost kind of like for me it was like well i told myself the first week that this was going to be the relationship so no matter what i thought after that, I have to make this work. Do you fall too fast? I did for sure. Now I don't fall at all. But now, yeah, I used to fall pretty fast. And then no matter what happened, it was because I was like,

you know, I think when I was younger, at least, you get taught all these values from your parents about, you know, commitment and having character and sticking to your word and and being and not being a quitter and i think when we're young we can confuse that with like just not being in a relationship that we really want to be in um so for so good for you and like you said i think you know i if you guys if you guys both date and and and you both because it doesn't matter if you realize that you love her and she's met someone else, then you're not compatible.

But if in a couple of years, you're just like, I kind of just feel like, you know, I've met some people and no one was ever as good as you. And oh, by the way, I feel the same way. Then maybe you give another shot, but now you don't really know. My guess is it'll take some time. You're going to date and you should date, you know,

like it shouldn't be that easy to meet someone new. And just because you go on a bunch of dates and you don't find someone doesn't justify that she was the person you should be with. It takes some time and you are young. Something that always helped me in that situation was thinking about myself in five years. What would I have the bigger regret doing or not doing of what I have? Would you have a bigger regret having pursued this relationship and maybe not been your happiest, both of you,

or would you regret not taking this time and, and figuring out if you guys do genuinely want to be back together and come back together organically? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. I think if, you know, we talked about too, maybe we'll, you know, as we could since we're so young, you know, we'll change probably.

Obviously everybody does as time goes on. So it's possible in five years that, you know, some of our interests may line up more. You know, we've spent more time doing the things maybe that each other's interests maybe line up with a little bit. What are the interests that are different? Just like our hobbies, what, you know, entertainment we like. There's a lot that didn't line up.

The Bachelor definitely lined up, so that was nice. Well, good news for you. Plenty of other women who like The Bachelor. So that was nice. But other, yeah, there's just, you know, it was like I was into sports and she wasn't and she was really into a lot of different movies. Sounds like most men and women relationships.

I mean, yeah, I don't think that really, honestly, like that doesn't really matter. I don't think you have to like all the same things. It's good to have common interests and it's good to like different things. I think it just, I mean, man,

you just have so much life to figure out. What do you do? Are you in school? Are you working? Yeah, so I just graduated from school.

I'm currently looking in the broadcasting field. So I graduated with a broadcasting degree. Honestly, I would be single for a while because to be successful

in that arena, you have to be mobile, you have to move. I had to move to Des Moines, Iowa for a a year which is not somewhere i thought i would ever live but so yeah you know unless unless unless love smacks you in the face and knocks you down i would stay pretty uh agile and pretty uh independent honestly um you know don't run from someone you meet but like don't feel the need to chase it because you know to work your way up in that

industry you have to it's often you have to move around yeah no that's definitely one of the reasons that I knew that I was going to have to move and now you know I can apply anywhere now I'm not tied down to a place and can kind of have the versatility for my career I would take advantage of that while

you know you're only 21 man you could be single for I have the versatility for my career. I would take advantage of that while, you know, you know, 20, 20, you're only 21, man. Like you could, you could, you could be single for the next seven years and then meet someone that you

could have a 50 year marriage with, you know, like it's plenty of time to figure that out. Yeah, that's true. Cool, man. Well,

thanks for calling. It's always fun to, to hear from the men, the men in the audience and the mature level head ones at that. A 10%. I will say the guys who do listen to the show, they all seem to be pretty stand up. Yeah.

It's always like, I wish that anyone that I dated actually listened to a dating relationship advice show. They all seem like self-aware, wanting to do the right thing. Good on you, Hunter. You're going to get all the girls. They're all catches for sure.

Yeah, they're all like, you're going to have a bunch of women reaching out, wanting to get your information. I have a friend who's like the perfect match for him. He's great. But we do appreciate you calling in. So best of luck and focus on that career in the short run. Yeah, well, I absolutely love the podcast. So thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for listening, buddy. Take care. Yeah, you too. All right. It's like, if he would have told me he was 30,

I would have believed him. Um, yeah, he's just, you know, figuring it out. He's going to, he should be single for like five or six years.

Yeah. I think, especially in the field he's in, he's going to have to move around and to have a long distance relationship when you're pursuing a career that takes 24 hours a day, seven days a week in, you know, potentially a new town. Um, that would be really tough. Yeah. How's it going? Hi, I'm Sarah, 25. Hi, Sarah, 25. How can we help? I'm Sarah, 25. Hi, Sarah, 25.

How can we help? Okay, yeah. So initially I wrote in because I had graduated from grad school a couple years ago. And I was in a relationship when I first started the program. And then that ended. And I developed a crush on my professor and he is 35 currently. So I don't know how the math, whatever. And I always felt uncomfortable kind of, you know, pursuing that because of professionalism.

And so recently one of my friends kind of helped me reach out to him because he wasn't on social media. So I kind of didn't know how to make that transition. And so a couple weeks ago we met up for coffee, but found out that he was in a relationship. is like I've kind of missed that boat because I kind of struggle with reading those vibes or knowing when when something's in your head versus actually real and kind of like how do I go about pursuing a friendship because that was something that I was still interested in like I don't know like what are those steps to do so like when you're vibing a guy, you're crushing on him, there's just some, or you're saying you're just more or less the gray area of figuring out if he's feeling the same way

or how you should approach it, and if not, how to navigate just the friendship? Yeah, or even, because I'm queer, so I also date women, so I don't, like, I'm very, my words mean things to me. So even on dates, I'll be like, the feedback I've gotten is, oh, didn't realize you were into me. But like, I've clearly said those words, oh, I'm into you, or, oh, this was a great time. But then it's like, oh, well, you weren't't like given the body language sure and I recently discovered that I am autistic and so that is communications like

important in relationships and communication is something that autistic people struggle with even more than general people okay and so how how do I go about yeah that's it thanks Thanks for sharing. That's very fascinating. Because even when just talking to you now, I sometimes get criticized for being low energy sometimes. I don't always feel on. I can have a big personality, but sometimes, often, especially out in public,

I'll be low energy right and then people will take that a certain way um and i feel like i'll have to explain myself and they might say well you'd seem like off-putting or a dick and i'm just like what are you talking about i wasn't even you know um and they'll read my body language so i i get what you're saying and like even just like talking to you a little bit like you seem you know more quiet and more demure and like not necessarily like expressing your excitement in a certain way and i think people can struggle with that but i i can also tell in the the little that we've talked that you're um very specific with your words yeah like like you said they do mean a lot and um you're thinking about

them a lot before you say them yeah so i think uh the best i mean just you said you know it's interesting you say your words are important to you now that you've recently learned this about yourself by being diagnosed as autistic um have you uh changed your approach and how you communicate with that like have you how long ago did you find this out was this before some of these other dating scenarios no it was after it's very recent okay and i found that because in women autism usually shows up different than in men and so so women who are artistic, just like women in general, like learn to, it's called masking. And so like you learn to like, oh, okay, I need to smile. And like, but people can kind of tell that not that you're artistic, that something is not like neurotypical people because it's not natural. Like even in artificial intelligence, there's

this thing, like if a robot looks like a robot, people trust it more versus a robot that trusts a human. People are like something's off about this thing. It's similar to mirroring, right? Yeah. And it's exhausting. Like if you are always doing that, and recently I used to live alone for the past like five years.

I just started having roommates and just always having to do that gets tiring. And so once I found out that I was autistic, I don't do that as much because I don't, I'm like, okay, it wasn't just me not being like able to be like everybody else. It's like, this is harmful to me. And so I don't, I don't force myself. Did you find a sense of comfort when you were diagnosed? Is it, did you find it to be like relief a relief it's been a roller coaster like first it's like oh a relief but then it's

like oh people were right i am weird like there's no me changing or it's not just that i'm because i wasn't born in the u.s and so it's like oh it's this cultural difference. But now it's like, no, it's just your brain. And so sometimes it's like, yay, this is like just who I am. And then other times it's like hopeless in a sense. There's always going to be a communication barrier. Do you, and just, is that more you thinking about that or, and then kind of having those in like self-inflicted insecurities or has anyone ever said that to you or made you feel a certain way said what well I mean when you say you know oh well I guess I am weird or

whatever I'm just saying like that's just more you internalizing that right it's not as if someone's actually said that to you no people said that people call me weird okay call me star girl then oh you're even five minutes upon meeting oh you're different it's like i was smiling laughing at appropriate times and it's like i don't understand that's why i don't care as much to accommodate people because people aren't accommodating me yeah no i get that i mean not maybe to your level, but I mean, I, I'm often described as different or, or even sometimes weird. I've, I've learned to embrace that, but sometimes I do, I will get frustrated where it's just like, you know what? I'm not like,

I don't, I don't feel the need to like, I, you know, I sometimes joke with my friends who are very on, like have that kind of politician blood where they're just like very much like always on and always just like, they're just, everyone's kind of in, they naturally drawn to them and I can be charismatic and people can be drawn to me,

but there are plenty of times where I said, where I'm just like, I can't help myself say a certain thing and I don't have a filter and then people will make this. And I do, I have, I can't help myself say a certain thing and I don't have a filter and then people will make this. And I do, I think a lot of people, whether they are autistic or not, will get frustrated with having to explain themselves. So to a certain degree, I can relate.

If I were you, I would just try to embrace it. I mean, I tell you what, like when you say that I'm very fascinated, I would love to learn more about you. And if I were, if we were on a date and you, uh, early on, I just said that you were autistic. Um, I would have so many questions that you, you're very articulate. You're, you talk, you, I can hold, you know, we're holding a conversation here. I would want to learn more about you. and that's not to say everyone will right there are certain people in this world who are more drawn to unique qualities in people and other people are not

and there are a lot of people who are still ignorant in this world and they'll say and and the thing is you know that might be helpful to understand is what I've learned is that when people get nervous and they get uncomfortable and they don't know what to say, they almost always say something that's going to be offensive. I don't know what it is. They make a statement that makes themselves feel more comfortable in a situation. Yeah, and so it's literally not you.

It's them feeling uncomfortable, not knowing what to say. Sometimes what's nice about people who kind of are good talkers, they make it easier on you, right? Because like, you don't have to talk. They're talking to you and they make it easier because it's like, well, I don't know what to say, but you're talking for me. And so they're just kind of projecting their own insecurities onto you. I guess.

How do I communicate? Like, I don't know what to do beyond, even before I knew this, I was like, oh, my face doesn't, like, represent how I'm feeling. Like, so I don't take that the wrong way, but it still seems to be an issue. Like, people, like, even just, even with roommates, I'm like, oh, I don't get the concept of just saying hi when I'm walking into a room. Like, if you say hi to me, I never not say hi back. Like, how do you, once you've already explained, how do you, yeah. So, when you, when you, do your roommates know you're autistic?

No. They don't. Well, you should tell, I mean, I mean. If you feel comfortable telling them. If you feel comfortable, you know, I would tell them. I would think, and maybe this is something you're going to have to just do when you're comfortable. I would think getting it out there and letting people know, I would think might be a relief and empowering. Again, I wouldn't be turned off by it.

I would be drawn to it. I would be really interested. And even if I had a roommate, because I would, listen, as much as I'd say that, like if I've met someone and they acted a certain way and I would be like, oh, something seems different. I don't know what it is. And then when we don't know the answer to these questions,

we just make up assumptions. When we're watching TV, I don't know if answer to these questions, we just make up assumptions. When we're watching TV, I don't know if you watch The Bachelor, but this season, no one could figure out what happened at the end. So people were coming up with these craziest scenarios and most of which were nonsense. And so when people don't have the answers, they fill in their own storylines and they come up with their own conclusions. And if someone is reading you differently and you do something different that they're not used to and they don't have an answer, they'll just create their own answers. And I think if you are comfortable and explain,

hey, listen, just so you know, I'm autistic. This is what this means. There's probably a lot of ignorance when it comes to autism still. What does it mean to be autistic how are how are you different than other people are there variations of being autistic you know um but if someone's willing to get to know you um embrace that they would embrace that and ask questions and then that way i mean shit i got 10 siblings they're all we're all super different and super and some of them are like they're just weirder and we're all weird and we all do certain things to annoy each other. But like, as you get to know them, it's like, well, that's just how they, how they express their situation. It's kind of no different than learning someone's love language, right? And personality.

I was going to say that as well as you, your language is communication verbally. The only experience that I can share is I had a work friend who found out a couple years back that he was autistic. But even though there is so much ignorance in society, as far as what that means, and how you communicate, there is a lot more in the media. The show, I think it's atypical. Yeah, I haven't seen it, but I'm... Yeah. And so people are now learning more about it. And I think, like Nick said, you have so many incredible attributes. You seem like you're a very loyal, genuine person who's looking for friends and genuine relationships. You're very well spoken. So going into that and,

and owning, you know, all of the, the positive things that you have to offer. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, and I'm sure in some ways it's easy for us to say, but yeah, I can't emphasize enough that I, I, if I had the, you know, if we could, I would have so many questions and want to learn and not everyone's going to be like that, if I had the, you know, if we could, I would have so many questions and want to learn. And not everyone's going to be like that, but I think there would be a lot of people who would show an interest. And if you are comfortable sharing that, especially whether it's friendships or romantic relationships, like anything else, when it's easier for people to ask questions when you're willing to share a little bit about yourself.

I've had this unique experience of being on reality TV, right? And so if I'm going to be friends with my closest friends or people I want to be in a romantic relationship with, to a certain degree, I have to share that with them so they can understand. Because while it's not being autistic, it's a unique experience. A lot of people I have a hard time relating to.

And I have baggage from it. And I have scars from it. And I get very guarded in situations that other people might not. And I might be acting a certain way where they're like, why are you acting this way? You know? And I'm like, well, because, you know, I'm just not comfortable. And if I wasn't willing to tell them, they would, again, like I said, they would come up with their own scenarios and conclusions that might not be

fair to me, but if I'm not willing to share with them, it might be hard for them to understand. Um, so yeah, I think if this is a new thing for you, you, you're getting used to like learning this thing about yourself. Um, so don't be in a rush, but I would, I would encourage you to share it with people. I don't, I don't see it as a, I don't see, I, I don't it as a negative thing at all. I share it with my roommates because I don't think they deserve it. I don't think they need that to understand. I've explained the things that maybe cause issues. And so for me, it's kind of like, if you don't care what we already explained to you how it actually is, this label is not, it doesn't matter.

Then you're not doing it because you care about me as a person. I get that. Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, we live in a world where we were all kind of selfish with people expect, even like relationships. You talk about love languages and personality tests. Like most of the time people are concerned about their love language as it relates to their needs it's like i my love language is words of affirmation so i need i need you to affirm me you know i need i need you to give me gifts because i like gifts or you know i need you to

do nice things because i like act of service like most people when they learn about love language are thinking in that context not necessarily learning about their partner's love language so they can meet their needs. And that's something I think as a society we need to do better at, but it works with friendships as well too, you know? Have you felt comfortable sharing it with other people in your life? Yeah. Even before I, when I started expecting that i would always tell people like that's the issue i i've i share too much information because i don't care to hide something that is true about myself um so i've told my friends and my family and stuff like that but not just it's just i haven't told my roommates because this has been two months ago that I found this out. That's good too, is, is leaning into those people

that are supportive and, and want to listen and care about you. How would you feel comfortable like on a, like a, um, like even a first date of mentioning that to someone i think came up like i don't know i probably would put it like on my dating profile if even just then and there but i mean i do whatever i would say it's interesting because again i'm no expert at this i have i don't have a lot of experience but i think because a lot of people are ignorant about autism i i would be reluctant if i were you to put it on your dating profile because it gives people a lot of reasons to make assumptions they have no clue but like just talking to you like i like if you talked if we were talking right now you didn't tell me this i

wouldn't i wouldn't be like i wonder if she's autistic you know what i'm saying i would never guess that so as soon as some as soon as you're sitting down face to face with someone and then kind of bring it up even pretty quickly there hey it, it's a quick, I mean, I'll tell you what, in terms of like first date jitters and not knowing what to talk about, bam, you immediately have a lot to talk about. And like, that might get exhausting for you to always have your first date.

You're also going out with intelligent people if you have your master's degree. So they're gonna be people that, you know, either have that information or are willing to learn more about it and you. But on a first date, saying it on the first date early on, I think if you're comfortable with it, it would be a good thing. Isn't Amy Schumer married to someone who's, I think he has Asperger's or is that in the autism family? Yeah, that's no longer a diagnosis. That's a previous label.

It's just called autism spectrum disorder. Gotcha. Okay. But, you know, he is, she talks about in her stand-up, he is different and he, people, he, you know, she was very open about it. And the way she describes, like, that's what she loves about him and his honesty and et cetera, et cetera. So, again, there's going to be plenty of people out there, I think, who will embrace your personality and who you are and whether that's weird or different or whatever are able to embrace that. Those are the people who are, I think, are able to find like really unique and strong connections because they are who they are and they're not afraid to hide it and they don't pretend to be something they're not. And, you know, you know, and so, yeah, I think this is so new for you too. You've only known this for two months.

There's probably just a, it's a process for you, but I, maybe easier said than done for me but i wouldn't run from it i think this is a unique quality that i think it is gonna uh you know draw the right people that it kind of isn't kind of to kathy's point that um we don't have time for people that you know aren't willing to give us the time to get to know us and this is an opportunity for you to draw the right people in your life and make those types of connections worth having. How do you discern? Cause I have a pattern of, I was like, Oh, I'm a bad picker. Like how do you not continue to do that?

Like, I feel like I'm always going for the 30 year old, like since I was 19 and then it like speeds up the timeline or situations that are more difficult like I was in a long distance relationship or like my professor it's like something there's always girl I'm a bad picker too I completely relate to that so I don't think that that's you know something that's exclusive to anyone I think that it's all about learning and filtering out the right people in your life. Like Nick said, you know, there are going to be a lot of people and only a few that you really gravitate to. So it's, you know, learning from either, you know, past mistakes or heartbreaks, or just, you know, really leaning into the people that you feel most comfortable

with. Yeah. because it's not that they're bad people it's just the situation usually is not conducive like even now like there's someone who like i met in australia who now lives in the uk and it's like you should just come and visit me but we've never met and i'm like oh that's what i'm going to tend to go towards versus someone who lives in the city that i live in who... I love a good long distance love affair. I mean, I've had that before. I get it. Everyone has a bad picker.

I also found myself gravitating towards relationships that were long distance in my past just because it was more comfortable to me because that meant that I didn't have to face a lot of more serious issues that I was dealing with because it kind of kept them at a distance. So maybe that's something to really look at, you know, your past dating history and figure out, because I think we do also attract in some way, what we're ready for.

Yeah. And I was gonna say too, I mean, it could make sense why you've been drawn to maybe older guys, men generally mature slower than women. And if you are, if you always felt like you had a unique personality and you felt like some people were quick to judge your personality, it would make sense that why an older guy might make you feel more safe and more comfortable because a 19, 20-year-old guy might say rude things and not be as understanding or at least made you feel that way. So my guess is maybe you just felt safer in that situation. And I don't think that's necessarily bad

for you to be dating an older guy. But even older guys, they have different personalities. And like everyone else, dating is hard. So we all have bad pickers. You just kind of learn from your past mistakes. But let people get to know who you are and give them a chance to accept you for who you are or not. And then you move on and invest in people who make you feel like you can be yourself. Yeah.

Thank you. Awesome. Well, I really appreciate you. This has been a really interesting call and really you know learning for me and it's always it's interesting learning different people's stories your person's out there yeah you know it um yeah i would love i would love to learn more this has been really fascinating so thanks so much for i really appreciate it thank you all right have a good day bye bye bye yeah that was a great call yeah i just want to give her a hug i want to learn more about her and just ask her questions and you know she seems so interesting and i get it though too like i can't it's uh

it's see people people expect people to be a certain way. And then when we get uncomfortable and get nervous, we say things. And sometimes those are, can be offensive and rude. And I, when she said like people will like, will call her weird or different. And she's tired of explaining herself for different reasons. I can, I can relate. And it's just like, it gets exhausting. And it's like, you know what? I'm not like that. And I'm not like everyone else. And honestly, I don't want to try to be in like, that's great that you are, but like, you know, whatever.

What's been so interesting to me about being on the show is how relatable every single situation is of we've all been in these same scenarios um and how that's literally spread across the country it's not just just one person yeah well that's why this this podcast has been successful even like i people always why is the bachelor always like still on because like love is the most relatable thing yeah whether it's like and there's so many different levels it's never gonna go away like whoever you are whatever your sexual orientation is whatever your age is there's always issues

there's always struggles we are dealing with our own problems and it's it's also just really hard to navigate yeah so

yeah that was that was a fun call I really appreciate it Kathy thanks so much for joining us yeah thanks for having me it's been a ton of fun

you'll have to come back. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for listening, guys. Another great episode. As always, we appreciate you tuning in. Do we know who we have coming on Wednesday? We don't. We don't know who we have coming on Wednesday yet. Well, we will at this point, but we don't know yet. So anyways, make sure tune in on wednesday uh we'll sure to bring you a wonderful episode and don't forget to send us in your questions at ask nick at castmedia.com cast with the k and we will see you on wednesday bye guys