The Viall Files - E1102 - Age of Attraction Reunion | Exclusively on The Viall Files

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Welcome to The Viall Files Age of Attraction Reunion!  Theresa and John. Libby and Andrew. Vanelle and Jorge. Vanessa and Logan. Leah and Chris. Derrick. Who's still together? Who's not? And who's stuck in the grey area? Find out NOW as hosts Nick Viall and Natalie Joy dive into the relationships of all of our favorite couples. Is Age really just a number? Find out now!  "I don't really feel comfortable, like, airing this out…" Your future love story could be waiting for you! Age of Attraction Season 2 is currently casting at  https://www.ageofattractioncasting.com  The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 4th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit https://www.ticketmaster.com/netflix-is-a-joke-presents-the-hollywood-california-05-04-2026/event/090064659E29A6A5  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Ollie - Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to https://Ollie.com/viall and tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! American Home Shield - Listeners can get 20% off select plans today! Just visit https://ahs.com/viallfiles to sign up. See https://ahs.com/contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions.  Poshmark - New deals and styles are listed every day, so don't wait. Download the Poshmark app and use code viall10 when you sign up to get $10 off your first purchase. Or shop now at Poshmark dot com slash viall10 and get $10 off your first purchase. BetterHelp - When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/viall  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @libbyvodicka @vanellesandra_ @chrisdahlan@vidabeautybabe @flyleahnicole @johnmerrill_23 @logangoodrid @andrewlanewheeler @derrick_fleming @theresa_demaria @attorneyjorge @justinkaphillips @allisonklemes @kymccarthy23 @the_mare_bare @leahgsilberstein  

If you're listening to this on audio, make sure to check out our YouTube channel to see the extended visual cut of this reunion. It's an incredible production. We really win all out to give you guys the best show ever. Plus, the expressions on these guys' faces are something you will definitely not want to miss. Welcome to the Age of Attraction Season 1 Reunion. I'm your host, Nick Viall. And I'm Natalie Joy. We are so excited to be here with all of the cast of Age of Attraction to unpack all of the people.

burning questions that you have been dying to know. And we're not going to leave any gap unexamined. This is a show about regular people finding love outside the confines of societal pressure and influence, and seeing if their commitment to each other can survive in the real world. Some of our couples found that love was enough. Others realized that their differences may be too much to handle. This is the very first time the entire cast has reunited since filming, and they are here to give us all the tea about their experiences on the show. and life after committing or not. Teresa, as a stylist, who's best dressed today?

There's only one answer. Me. Yes, love it. I would say myself and then Vannell and then Libby and then. Does anyone need some work? Yeah. I mean, there's always room for a minute. How far in her?

I can give you guys my rates later. There we go. There we go. John, how's the royal family going? Any drama to report? No drama. I'm still working on my accent, but I'll get back to you guys on that. Without giving us the whole recipe, though, what describe the potato recipe?

Like, what's the... Thinly sliced. Okay. Got to make them extra crispy. Okay. A ton of extra sharp cheddar cheese. Okay. And salt.

Okay. That's it. You can always... And we bake it in an oven at $4.50? It's funny because we were baking in... Was it Fahrenheit or Celsius? Celsius. And I didn't know what the temperature was.

I thought I was going to burn the whole place down. But how good was it? I mean, I think I was risking a heart attack, but it was really good. Libby, quick. Which spice girl is Victoria Beckham? Posh. Love. Good job.

Guys, and there was no Googling done. I've just gotten enough feedback and roasting. I don't even have to look anything else. Andrew, you've gotten a haircut? No, I haven't gotten a hair. You let it grew up. New hairstyle. New hairstyle. Yes, I do. And a little tan.

Where you been? Down in Florida. Thalling out. Thalling out. Golfing. Yes, of course. Vanessa, loving the pink, loving the pink lipstick. Fourth of July, has it been coming around often? Yeah, we celebrate Fourth of July at least once or twice a month when we come to visit each other.

Every time's a holiday. It's coming along, great? It's coming along. Okay, hey, set the record straight right now with everybody in here and let them know. Just let him know. He puts it down. It's good. It's good. It's good. It's good.

It's much better. It is so serious. We're going to finish. It is crazy. Hey, her shit's fire. Why do you think I put a ring on it? Okay. Okay.

We'll give you your moment. Logan, how are the optics today? The optics are great. I mean, I think I look good. What do you think? You look great. Optics are good. Everybody looks in, yeah, optics are great.

Jorge, you're looking dapper as ever. Thank you. Thank you so much. Any new tattoos? I'm working on one. Okay. Yes, because I'm in addiction, you know. Okay.

Is it AOA? You know, that's a good idea. Put some A.O.A. in a river right down on. Yeah. I think that we did. Hey, anything but a mountain. Anything but a bear. Oh, that was nice.

You're looking stunning. Thank you so much. How are you feeling? I feel okay. Okay. Why are you nervous? I don't know. I'm just nervous.

You're in good hands. Thank you. You're welcome. Chris, why are you wearing sunglasses? It was bright in here. Don't you think? Are you going to take an eye? He's hiding the eyes a little bit.

You need to take an eye? Just in case I need to close my eyes while everything's going on in here, you know? Okay. You ready to get going? I don't want, you know, keep the, keep the emotions out of it. for a second. Okay. For a second. Derek, your skin is looking very smooth and shiny.

Thank you. Adding anything new? No. Lots of water. Moisterizer. Always. That's it. You all love water and staying out of the sun.

Absolutely. Allegedly. If you go to the beach, you got to bring your umbrella. Umbrella with a chair and set it up. Dump. All day long. All day long. We're not playing.

Leah, you've been flying anywhere recently? No, I've been off. You guys, I live a very flexible lifestyle. That's fax. But I do leave to New York on Sunday. We love it. A little bit sometimes. Well, we are very excited to have you all here.

And I think let's just start with the question I think everyone wants to know by a show of hands. Who are the couples that are still together? Two, three. Two couples. We got Andrew and Libby. Logan and Vanessa. I'll be honest, Logan and Vanessa. I didn't think you two headed in you.

It is. It's beautiful to see. Let me tell you. The show started after the show was wrapped. That's when like real life came in. And that's where I wish people could have seen more. Oh. Hmm. Love that. Well, John and Teresa, you guys committed. Yeah. At the, uh, we did. We did. Definitely did. How were we feeling today? That was real. I mean, I'm feeling good. John and I are in a really good place. And I think we still have like, I still have some sort of questions that. I would like some answers to. But I think for the most part, like, you know, we tried. It was, you know, a combination of factors that led us to where we are today. But, yeah, I mean, I'm happy with where we are today. I think we, I think it's a very good show of what we did have, the fact that we are really in a good place right now. Well, we will certainly want to unpack everything

that's happened since filming and kind of really understand how we got to today a little bit later. Logan, you so eloquently put it at some point in the season that the older people come with a lot of baggage. Eloquently. But in fairness, there is some truth to that. And I think it's interesting watching it back. Obviously, Nali and I have an age difference. And I think everyone who, like the Treesas, Vanessa, Leah, Andrew, Jorge, I think all of us that were dating younger people, I think that's a very relatable thing, right?

And I think a lot about this show really came down to if you're someone who's lived some life, you've had some relationship. You come in with some scars. When you're dating someone younger, I know it was with Natalie. I think the big question is, is like, what have you been through? Have you been through the ringer? Has your heart been crushed? as well. When you're saying, I've been through a lot, does my partner understand? And quite honestly, I think that's a big measuring stick. Like, it wasn't until I learned about Natalie's past, not that I was

rooting for her to have bad relationships, but the fact that she could relate, I've been broken by another human being in past relationships. And if you're dating someone who doesn't understand that, that can be a huge disconnect. With that being said, I just want to open up to the group, but starting with Teresa, you referenced a lot of times throughout the show some very difficult relationships from your past. At your comfort level, can you just give us a little bit of insight into some of the things that you have been through and the impact that had on you as a person and how that helped or affected you in relationships specifically with John? Yeah. You know, we can talk about things that break you from relationships and then just

life itself, right? Because it comes in so many different forms. And so I think John and I had talked about that, you know, he was really broken by his disappointment in baseball and everything. And so I think that was where we kind of could relate to that disappointment when you really are depending on something, you really think something is going to happen for you. And then without any control, it just falls apart. and you're just broken by that. For me, obviously, yeah, I've lived, you know, many, many lives in some ways. And my relationships have been some good, some not so good. I think from the very beginning, not to, like, take up too much time, but, like, you know,

I had my brother pass away when I was 18, and that was my first sort of, like, relationship that just broke without any expectation. It was very sudden. And, you know, you get the rug pulled out from under you when you have this, like, relationship that you're depending on and all of that. And so that was number one. And then, you know, just like relationships that I had after I got divorced that were, you think you have some, you really think like someone is being honest with you. And then you come to find out that, you know, they're lying, they're cheating. They're just not in it for the same reasons that you're in it. And so, yeah, it's been really hard to get over those.

Before I came on the show, I really did work on myself and heal from a lot of those hurts. And so I felt like, you know, I was in a really good place to start looking for someone that could be my person. What about you, Vanessa? You've obviously came in very vulnerable talking about your four engagements. Yes, my four LeBron rings that I had. Yeah, so I mean, I've had some trials. I was a single mom at 18 years old and I had to work full time and go to college and take care of my daughter. And, you know, I had some relationships. And I really was kind of like a serial monogamous for a while. And I poured my heart into these relationships. And they didn't work out. And, you know, it was really disappointing. But I don't want to let that like define me as who I am. You know, I'm pretty resilient. I've been really hurt, but I don't like to focus on that. And I wanted to look for something new and something fresh and I wanted to heal. Were there parts while getting to know Logan that were there things you needed to hear him say to make sure that he understood everything you've been through?

Yes. And, you know, that's what I think about too is a lot of times I was taking like those past relationships and I was projecting them onto him. You know, there's so many things watching it back and the things that I was saying and I was like, that had nothing to do with him. that was like my past, like coming back to get me and, you know, insecurities about that sort of thing. So, you know, he was the first one that really listened to me. And we talked a lot. I mean, he knows more about me than anyone else. Even some of my girlfriends, you know, and the things that we talked about.

And that was just really important in us getting close and having intimacy on an emotional level. I'd like to touch on that just a little bit. I mean, back to the comment that you made, you didn't think we were going to work out. Nobody did. I think anybody in the cast, you can ask everybody, because of the bickering, because of the arguments, a lot of people didn't think we're going to make it. But that's why, you know, one of the things that you saw, and I just wasn't able to articulate my thoughts sometimes because of some of those arguments and some of the things that happened

on the show, I'm just, I was really, really trying to figure this woman out because I saw the essence of this woman who had been broken, but has gone through a past that, you know, we're not going to talk about today, but I saw and heard the things that she's gone through and it led her to where she is today. You know, she's a business owner. She owns a house. She makes great money. And I saw so much value in that and being able to get to pass those things in life because

a lot of times people will go through situations in life and it makes her break to you. and what she has gone through, I wouldn't be able to do it. And that's kind of where I fell in love with her. I do want some clarification. You guys are, in fact, engaged. We sure are. I wasn't sure because will you do life with me?

Isn't will you marry me? So I just wanted to make sure that wasn't actually an engagement. So I think because he's young, he just didn't know the right terminology. You know, he forgot. It's different for the young ones, you know what I mean? He was nervous. But I will say this. I watched them at the airport with no cameras,

and I watched Logan say goodbye to Vanessa. It was beautiful. He literally, you know, I think he was at the window. She was looking backwards. It was, you know what I'm saying? And I watched that because I think Derek, we were there. And so I was just like, you know what? It was an honest connection.

Because I, yes, they were bickering. But once again, he was fighting. They were fighting for each other. And if you don't even see that, you don't have that. You know what I'm saying? It's empty. So y'all are. So I wanted to say something about, I think that a lot of times when we say maybe scars or trauma relational baggage, I think there's a plus side that comes along with that too. And the plus side, I think, is experience and knowledge. I think the experience and knowledge comes

with it because I think sometimes if you lose, don't lose the lesson. The mistakes you may make in one relationship, you may take that forward and say, I'm not going to make that. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. I'm going to be a little bit more this. And so I think that it's a, I don't, I don't look at any relationship that anyone has as a failure. It's a lesson. And it's just moving on to find the, you know, the perfect situation where you and a person understand each other. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I always say, like, honestly, when it comes to my past relationships, I don't even remember, like, the happy times. I remember the sad times, but the sad times aren't like, I laugh at them now.

They're things that we survived. I think when we are dating people who might be younger than us, when we hear things like, I want to throw caution to the wind. I think sometimes that's the moment you want to just make sure, yeah, let's throw caution to the wind, but like, do you know what you're throwing to the wind, so to speak? And I think sometimes that's the thing I noticed with Trisa and Vanessa and Leah and myself in those relationships and Andrew a little bit when you're like having those conversations

but like, you know, are we, do we know what we're betting on here? You know, it's like, let's get risky, but like, you know, we just want to make sure. So, yeah, it's both a lesson, but we just want to also understand that our partner can relate to us. We have more to risk in some ways because we've already, like, gotten ourselves to the point where, you know, we've been hurt so many times. It's like, like, the level of what you can tolerate is lower, you know, so I don't know. You're kind of like, not again. Yeah, you're trying to avoid the not again. Yeah.

Definitely. How was it just watching it back for all you guys? I mean, obviously being on reality TV is a bit of an experience. How's it been? We're here. Yeah, I get the ick a little bit. Okay. Definitely get the cringe.

From yourself? For myself. A little cringe. Get over the cringe and we'll be okay. I think it's a very vulnerable thing, you know, to watch yourself on television. I'm a very hard critic, you know, so I've been very critical of myself. You know, it's not easy. Yeah.

Libby, how'd you feel? I think I feel the same way. I'm definitely going to be critical of myself. You start noticing things, everything about everything you've ever done. But I remember being in that experience, thinking whatever anybody had to say about the way that I'm acting on this show, you don't know until you're experiencing it. You don't know how you're going to act in front of cameras. It's very much a weird environment where you don't have your phone.

You're not around your family. You're really isolated and you're trying to explore a connection with somebody. and that alone can be a scary experience, but you're also trying to act yourself in front of the camera. And I think that for me, those two things together were really hard. It's totally valid. Libby and Andrew left the retreat with a 16-year age gap and a mutual love of Taylor Swift

in hopes that their love story would just say yes. But with Andrew's daughters and Libby's bright future, it seemed like we might have known their fate all too well. That is until Andrew learned what a hard launch meant and decided to manifest it anyway. And they say age gap relationships don't teach you anything. Well, how has that been for you two? It's been great.

First of all, I just wanted to put it on the record that if it speaks to anything of how weird this experience is, my mother notified me I've actually been to three Taylor Swift concerts. That's how delusional I was in this moment. I can make that. Well, I want to work backwards a little bit. You are one of the couples that's still together. It was really fun watching you guys fall in love on this show. how have you gotten to this point still in a relationship? What's the thing or things that you think

has made it work? I think that there's a lot that goes into being a long distance relationship, an age gap relationship, all those things. And I think that you saw us really touch on the silly side of things on the show. But behind that, off camera or sometimes on, there were a lot of deeper conversations that were had, a lot of ways in which we realized that we were compatible that I never expected. And I really feel like he was able to meet me on the level that I was at and we could kind of mutually benefit from our relationship where I feel like I have things to learn from him. He has things to learn from me. And I feel like that's been the biggest thing for us is just being great communicators, being open about everything. And honestly, I feel like I relate to him more

in our relationship than anybody I've dated. That's my age. And I think that he kind of feels the same way. Well, I'm curious, Andrew. I mean, I always talk, you know, about how. in our relationship, we are equals, you know, and we really live that where, you know, the power dynamic is not off, you know. I come to her with as many questions, looking for counsel, looking for advice as she does with me. I am curious, with Libby, what are some things that you really go to her on and how has she been kind of just helpful with aspects of your life outside of just, you know, getting Taylor Swift, you know, knowledge and things like that?

She actually has a lot of wisdom. A lot of people, I don't think everyone in this room knows, I sold my business at the end of last year. And it was a weird thing for me. I'm 39 years old now. I'm kind of starting over. I'm in a transition period of my life, and she's been amazing. She's been there.

There's been some days where I'm like, what am I doing with my life? What's next? And she's been that rock for me throughout this process. And I don't think that, you know, I almost didn't come out this week to L.A. I was thinking about staying home, and she was there the entire time, like, picking me up. So, yeah. Libby, have you felt the age difference much being outside of the bubble? Honestly, no.

I think I felt it way less than you would expect. I think the only times I feel it are all in refreshing ways. It's when I can have an open conversation with somebody about my feelings. It's when I need advice from somebody else. A lot of different things come into play that I never expected that are all good parts. And honestly, the only, I don't think anybody looks at us and is like, oh, these two have an age gap. You know what I mean? So I really forget the whole concept of this show and the fact that there was a time where I was like, holy crap, this person is 38 years old with teenage kids.

I'm 22. I forget that that whole thing happened because we never are like, we're in an age gap. Has anyone had an issue with your age difference, either online or in the wild, so to speak? Yeah, so obviously online, I think that something important to note about this experience is that we didn't know each other's ages. Obviously, I look younger than he is, but I think that he thought there was only people 25 and older. So I remember feeling bad. I felt like I aged fished him, and I was like, I'm so sorry about that. As soon as he said his age, I was like,

Jorge, because he didn't know 60-year-olds were there either. Yeah. Yeah, I know, right? Man, I didn't like that comment either. By the way, Drew, I'm the whole drawing that was like, oh, this dude was like ancient, man. I didn't know he was here. He's my boy, but he's like Moses. He's like, he's like a compliment.

Like, you look great. You look great for 60. You look great for Moses. For 60. Right, right. I like that, the underhanded comment. Oh, yeah, you look great for being Moses. I didn't know he looked at it.

I think he aged fished everyone. Thank you. From you, I'll take that. That's a comment. But for him, no. I'm curious, Libby and Andrew, what are any challenges that you guys have had to work through over the past few months? I would just say the whole long distance thing is a little bit of challenge, but I think we've both been really good about that. We have great communication. We see each other a lot. And honestly, we haven't really had many problems in our personal lives with people having things to say about our age dynamic. Obviously, you're going to make assumptions if you know it. But I don't think he brings me around is like, this is Libby. We have a significant age gap. Do you see it? I think that his friends see me for the person that I am and his family. And same with mine. They've been incredibly accepting because they know me and they now know him. So I think that it's way easier to be like, okay, these are these two individuals and this is their relationship, not like here's an age gap relationship and what does that mean? And also like I was saying, it's important to note that we didn't know each other's ages. Had he been 38 and approached me and been like, oh, you're 22,

that's perfect. I would have been like, and maybe he would have thought the same if I was like, hey, Mr. 38, like, because it isn't normal for that to just be on the table and then move forward. So I think that that would have stopped us in the real world. Well, are y'all planning on shortening the long distance? Has there been conversations of what that might look like? Yeah, that's the next step for our relationship is trying to figure out the long distance thing and end that. So you would move to Baltimore? No. We still don't know.

Okay. We're still figuring a path. We're thinking Florida and just split time, but at least I will split time between Florida and Baltimore. Okay. Well, Andrew, early on in the show, you said that you were used to dating younger. They were fun. They were crazy. Do you still feel that way? Libby's not that crazy. I mean, she... You heard it here first. Not that crazy. She has, you know, some crazy comments from time to time. but she isn't.

Crazy in the best way. Yeah, in the best way. In the best possible way. Fuck it. But no, she's really surprised me with her communication. You know, doing the long-distance thing, I think towards the end of the show, I was really nervous about that because communication in my past relationships hadn't been that great.

And that's living in the same city, staying with each other, you know, multiple times, you know, throughout the week. So I'm like, how is this going to work with her being on the West Coast and me on the East Coast? but I think that's where our relationship has been so strong as our communication is fantastic. For someone that is 22, like she's a great. 23 now? She communicates great. We used to do that a lot too.

Every birthday, right? Every number, I'm like, it's okay. And a half. Yeah. Yeah, I'm actually a 23.5 now. So what do you know about younger? And by younger, I mean, they have me saying younger, younger, younger, blonde, young. The mother of my children, she's a brunette, she is older.

I'm 38 on the show, 39 now. If I dated a 32-year-old, she's younger. Like, what I have found, and this is no, like knock on anyone that's older here, like any of the older women, what I have found dating closer to my age and in the 40s is it's, you know, typically someone that's divorced, someone that has kids, and we all have deal breakers. We all have things that, you know, I've always said that I, I didn't want to be with someone that has kids or someone that is divorced.

And that's no knock on that at all. That's just like something for me that I just haven't been open to. And maybe some people would be upset about that. But for me, that's just like one of those things. So what I do want people to know is I didn't go searching for a 22-year-old. We didn't know each other's ages. And I very much thought, and I don't know where, you know, I don't remember who told this to me, but I thought the age demographic on the show was 25 to 55.

Like, I really did. My shock in, I think you could see that in the promiscreet room. I'm thinking through, and I'm like, who told me? Like, who lied to me? And what were some of your biggest insecurities or fears about the idea that Libby was 22, and yet you were having feelings for her? I mean, I just had this preconceived notion. You know, my past two relationships, I did date, you know, women that were in.

in their 20s, and it didn't work out. So I'm like, okay, here we go again. Like, are we going to be able to meet each other where the other person is in life? Like, are we going to be able to communicate effectively? So I was just worried about that. I'm like, you know, I don't want to waste my time. I'm getting older.

I don't want to be in another relationship where we're not going to be able to make it work, where we're not going to be able to communicate where we are at two different places in our lives. It's just, I think, you know, first, some of us older people you can agree, like the last thing you want to do when you get up there a little bit in ages,

like waste your time on something that's not going to work. Yeah. What is something about your relationship that you guys have found is just surprisingly easy? The long distance. Like, again, I thought it was going to be much harder. And I feel like it's the healthiest relationship when it comes to communication, really actually like kind of all aspects of the relationship, but so healthy when it comes to communicating.

And I thought it was going to be much, much more challenging being, you know, in a long distance relationship. I was genuinely surprised just by every facet, meaning compatibility-wise, I don't think I've ever been with somebody who had just the same outlook on every single thing as me, the same goals, the same, like we see everything in the same light. And I don't think I've ever been in a relationship or even had like friends that were that similar to me. And I just remember we were so eye to eye on everything. And obviously, I really liked him when we were in Whistler. But when we moved in together, I was like, wait, this is super weird. Like, we're doing all the same things. We just, even when it

comes to, you'll see on my friends who are like, Libby, it's not a roommate. It's a relationship, which very true. But those things can be detrimental things to a relationship. I think we both like things a certain way. We're a little OCD. And I don't think anybody in this experience, anybody else in the world could have gotten me to the place that we ended up because he was the only one to be like, hey, listen, let's, let's be a little bit more serious. I know there's something more to you because I've heard it. And so you're safe to open up to me, et cetera. And I think that We're both super lucky to have found somebody so specifically perfect for the other person. And I just remember literally walking on sunshine and rainbows and butterflies being like,

wait, is this what it's like to be with somebody who is actually compatible with you? Like, it was a crazy experience, honestly. Your friends also suggested that he should get Botox. Have you? God. Why, though? Harsh. That went out right.

He has nice skin. He does. I didn't say it. She did. I need a girl. My angel. That's just our relationship. She'll look at me and be like, why are you sitting like that? What are you wearing? Whatever. And that's always warranted with me. Like, I love it. I'm like, thank you so much. You're the best. That's true love to me. And also, even though she was super harsh, she protects me. And she's very much a realist. So to me, that's a true friend. Is somebody who will clock you, maybe not your man's and tell them that they need beer tops. We have that problem with her too. Okay. It's not the first time. She's gone off to somebody like that.

But like we said, she had the headband on and she was ready to fight. And then you see me go, Nina, we can't say that. Mike, Mike. But yeah, that's, you know, that's sometimes we've all got that friend, but she defends me with her chest and we love her. Andrew, you mentioned on the show that you had some nerves about holding Libby back, which is a feeling I really related to because obviously when Natalie and I got together, she was basically Libby's age. And there's this kind of thought of like, yeah, we have a great connection.

you like me now, but are you going to feel the same way with me in three or four years? You know, we came to find that we were surprisingly kind of on the same path in terms of like what we wanted for ourselves at the stages of life that we were in. I'm curious, how were you able to work through those insecurities and fears and how have you in Libby kind of figured out the path that your guys are on? I mean, I still have those fears, I think, from time to time. You know, for me, I have two daughters. They're teenagers at this point. I have went back and forth in my head. Like, do I want more children? I definitely do, but I also think there's like a cutoff for me. I'm 39 years old. I don't know if I want to be having a baby at 46, 47. So does our time frame in terms of like when she wants kids and, you know, where I would be open to having kids too. So I think that's, you know, still something that that worries me a little bit. And I think I was even worried about it. towards the end of the show. They don't show it as much, but I definitely was, you know,

thinking back and forth, like, am I going to hold her back? You know, what if she wants to take the next 10 years to really focus on her career? And she's 33 and wants to have kids. And at that point, you know, I'm 49. Dead. Yeah. I'm dead. That's old. Have you guys, I mean, are you guys on the same page in terms of that timeline? Have you guys talked about kids or what that looks like? Yeah. Like I said in the show,

show. I probably am not the typical 23-year-old where I just want to go crazy experience life. Like, there is that part of it, but there's also the part where to me experiencing life is having a stable relationship with a person that's good for me and a family and being happy. To me, that's experiencing life. As far as kids and everything is concerned, that was a big conversation and a big part of the relationship. And I think you see me being like, oh, I like that he has kids, whatever, but it doesn't really show my kind of, excitement about that after I processed it. I was like, okay, I really like that this person is a girl dad. It says a lot about him. It shows that he's more mature. There's definitely a certain

responsibility that comes along with kids. And sometimes when you're looking for a partner, you wonder, can this person handle kids? Would this person be a good dad? And I was really refreshed to see that I already saw that in him. And for me, that was a huge green flag. And yeah, I think that we had to come to terms on the show with the fact that to be with me would entail having more kids and being aligned on that timeline. And that was one of the big conversations that was really hard for me to hear his reservations

and his doubts about that because that's something that's super important to me. I've always wanted to be a mom. But yeah, honestly, when I heard he had kids, it just made me take him more seriously and just see him as a better candidate. And I think we are aligned on the timeline, meaning he can't wait forever.

And I've always wanted to be, obviously, not at this age of mom, but a mom eventually. and probably sooner than later, my parents had me on the younger side. They've been married for 30 years. They're an amazing example of what I want in a relationship. And so if I were to even have something that looked similar to that, I would be super happy. Well, we've wrapped filming almost a year ago-ish.

Have you met his daughters? I have not. Okay. Why? Yeah. Why not? So we're trying to figure out the long distance thing first. You know, the show, you're in a bubble. You know, it's all fun in games. You know, you're enjoying life. You're going to the pool midday on Monday. It's a little bit different. Everything since then, too, has felt kind of like the honeymoon phase for us. It's, you know, we see each other once a month and we're in L.A. or we're in Florida or we're in Baltimore and we're enjoying ourselves and having fun. We haven't really been able to test our relationship in terms of like spending significant amount of

time together in the real world. Doing our day today, getting up, going to the gym, going to work, coming home, eating dinner together. You know, I was very adamant about this on the show. I am super, super protective of my daughters. Like, I made myself a promise. After introducing my daughters to one of my exes, the only person that's ever met them, I told them, unless it's going to be my forever person, and I know that, I'm not introducing someone. I don't want them to see someone come in and out of their lives. It's not fair to Libby. It's not fair to my daughters. It's not fair to me for that to happen. So, you know, long story short, I want to see that we can move in together, you know, that the relationship is headed to us getting engaged, spending the rest of our life

together before, you know, we make that introduction. So like it has to be an engagement before that happens? I don't think, no, not an engagement. I think that would be a little weird, you know, to be like, oh, hey, by the way. This is my fiance. This is my fiance. But I think it has to be, I have to know, like, I'm putting a ring on it. That's the direction that it's going. Do they know that Libby exists? They do. They do.

I mean, I am a father now, but I'm not like a father like you are, a single father who's out there dating. So like everything you're saying totally makes a lot of sense in terms of the sensitivity around it. Just to play devil's advocate, I mean, you're kind of saying two things at the same time. And one of that almost kind of sounds like I don't know how it's. going with Libby almost. I'm curious Libby, like, how does that make you feel knowing that, like, his reasoning makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, are you internalizing that as what does that say about us? Yeah, I mean, I think that there is an interesting element of this, of the fact that it's a TV show, and I don't think I would be ever, well, obviously the relationship

isn't a TV show, but it will be shown on a TV show. And there's an element of judgment that's going to be made one way or another. So for me, that's the only hard part is I don't want anybody in his family to see a little clip of me and make any assumptions versus like me in real life. What do you mean by that? Like them not meeting you and only watch you on TV. You're nervous that that will give them. And just keeping that image of me in their mind before they got a chance to make their own judgment because like we said, it's a show four weeks doesn't summarize you as a person. You're nervous self on camera isn't you as a person in your entirety. So there's that. But also I just want to

say, like, I really respect the fact that he's mature enough to be like, hey, it's not appropriate for me to be bringing people in and out of somebody's life. And when there's kids in the picture, I think it's hard for me to talk about because I never want to overstep because that is somebody else's family that didn't ask for their life to be put on camera and for them to be talked about to the public. So I just honestly am mostly respectful of his maturity to the situation. Have you met the mother of his children? I have not. Is that something that you're looking at doing at some point?

I mean, I think that was just boiled down to her. You know, she wants to, I would offer that. You know, I did it, you know, the last time that someone met my daughters. I, you know, did ask her, like, did you want to meet her first before I make the introduction to the girls? But I'm going to leave that up to her. She's going to make her own decisions. I can't speak for her if she'll want to meet Libby. Okay.

And I'm curious, I mean, do you guys talk about, and it seems like it's still fairly early in the relationship, but like, do you guys talk about engagement at all? Or are we just focusing on closing the long distance and things like that? Yeah. I mean, as far as engagement's concerned, like, this whole show thing is kind of a wrench in the plants. We've been on the low. So we both know that, like, we see each other as a potential. partners, spouse, whatever. But are we day-to-day, like, so we need to pop in the question? No, no, no, no.

And also, yeah, there are those more important things about a relationship that you really need a test first before you are to get engaged of anything of the sort, one being living together for extended amounts of times, another being dating somebody who has kids and being a part of that. That's a whole other life that I haven't experienced. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll be right back to get into it with the rest of the couples. Don't go away. If you enjoyed watching Age of Attraction and are interested in possibly finding love for yourself on season two of age of attraction, be sure to go to age of attractioncasting.com to apply because your future love story could be waiting for you.

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And we're back with the Age of Attraction Reunion. Well, Vennel and Jorge bonded over a shared love of God and a deep desire for commitment, but with their 33-year age gap and different feelings about communication, temperament, and boundaries soon came to light. Sadly, these struggles in their relationship forced it to an abrupt and disappointing halt. So how are you two doing today? I'm fine. Okay.

And we're cool. All right. I know. I still love for her. I mean, for me personally, I think, and I will always think Vanilla's an amazing, beautiful woman. And I think the world of her. She knows that. We talked after the show, and I have nothing but love for her.

Oh, you did? So you all had a moment after the show? And whose decision was that? Who reached out? When I reached out to me. Okay. What was that feeling of wanting to reach out to him? I think after, like, leaving the show and, like,

like coming back to real life, it was just kind of like weird to just act like, you know, that whole connection like didn't exist, like that I just didn't know that person. So I reached out and, you know, I missed it. I wanted to, you know, try to see if we can like try to make it work. And yeah. It was very disappointed to see you guys break up because at the time, I know you guys were very excited about each other. Certainly you, Vinal, had a lot of hope and optimism about.

the potential. Where do you think ultimately things went wrong? I think for me, like, we weren't aligned on my abstinence. Our communication was definitely a huge factor. Yeah, I think mainly those two things, but mainly the communication. And what do you mean by the abstinence side of things? I think you can see on the show it kind of just was blurred a little bit. Like, obviously Jorge was a little bit confused on like where the abstinence, you know, lied because of the romantic moments we had and stuff. And we didn't really like have like deeper conversations about that and like what those boundaries were. I guess looking back, you know, because a lot of that, a lot of that moment was about you telling Jorge that you were

celibate and just hoping that, you know, you would get as obviously as you would hope to get like I want to respect that. I want to support that. And it didn't seem like, again, Jorge, you've really understood what she meant by celibate or maybe you had some of your own assumptions and that seemed to lead to some communication problems. Actually, I think so I like the fact that she said abstinent because it's not a celibate, it's abstinent. But I did not have a problem. So one of the things is this, my connection with Vinal was very real, very serious. As I told you all, and I was very protective of her. And when I say protective of her, not only protective of her from the outside, protective of her from me. I'm not going to do anything to try to offend or hurt her.

And everything I did, in every way I tried to handle it, I tried to handle it with care as best I could so that she understood. And I understood that when she said it, when we first talked and she said it, so then my thoughts went to, okay, well, Vancouver, we're going to do a lot of talking because we ain't doing nothing else. But like she said, some of the romantic moments confused it for me. And I think when I look back at it, I always say when you, communication is key for me. Communication and everything. You're going to hear me say it over and over again. Because as in my profession, as lawyer, most times people misunderstand each other and they don't, they'll be talking apples and oranges and they go apart because they never really understood. And I think that that

happened with Phinella and I, because honestly, if you look at it, she was saying she kept asking me what do you think about it? And I kept telling her, I don't know. And I think that set her off because it made her think that, well, no, that's not acceptable. And so when I look back at it, I said, you know, well, it wasn't her. It was me on the communication tip because I should have said, well, listen. And when we were talking, I wanted her to say, see, everybody in Vancouver was, I don't know. Because I don't know, man, I don't know if we're going to be together.

I don't know if we're going to continue a relationship. I don't know. There's a bunch of I don't know. So the way I felt about it was, well, first off, I'm a little confused. I always think that as a man, I need to step forward and say, okay, so what does actually your abstinence mean? Like, give me a blueprint, and I didn't do that. You know, I assumed that when she said abstinent meant nothing.

And so then when we do stuff, I'm like, okay, this is not absent, so maybe it's negotiable. Maybe it's something you're struggling with. So that would be, I'll take the brunt for that because I don't believe in, I'm not big into pointing the fingers at yours, you let's look at it collectively and see what we can do to better communicate. And I think, as I said then, it was a communication thing. And it could have been improved and I always take my responsibility. I'm curious for now. Obviously, in today's culture, hookup culture is pretty prevalent. It obviously, as you expressed, it has been a challenge for you dating. Has your relationship with Jorge and how things unfolded? Has it giving you a different

perspective of how you communicate your celibacy going forward. Yeah, definitely. And I think, like, coming into this experience, like, outside of this, like, dating situations like this have been easier for me to avoid. Like, I'm not, you know, I've never lived with a guy before. I'm not putting myself in these types of temptations. But, you know, coming to this experience, I really wanted to fully give myself into this process and really see where it goes with Jorge. I was literally like obsessed with him. So yeah, there are times when I literally live with someone that I had an extremely strong emotion and connection to. Also really physically attracted to.

So yeah, like, you know, there are times where maybe I fell short a little bit, but maybe going forward just be a little bit more like, you know, stirring about my boundaries. But like I said, on the outside world, I'm not putting myself in situations like this. Okay. There was also a big moment throughout that I think might have been right before your breakup, the something happened to the streets of Vancouver. Vannell, I'd like to kind of have you clear that whole situation up and get into kind of the details of it all just because the show didn't. So can you tell us what happened in that? Yeah.

I mean, I guess Harky can say his part too. But from my experience, I thought there was just like a random. guy on the street just yelling over like, yo, you're talking blah, blah, and obviously like Jorge turns around as like, oh, like mind your business or whatever. And then they're both going at it and it comes to a point where, you know, the guy's walking behind us. He has his skateboard in his hand. And, you know, him and Jorge are still like, you know, going back and forth about it. And it starts to get to a point where it gets escalated. And, you know, Jorge, they're talking about fighting each other. And I think for me,

that moment. I think that was my first time seeing Jorge, seeing Jorge, like, upset. I saw, like, a different side to him, and it just, you know, it was, it was different for me. And I, yeah. What about that? Because we had an opportunity to talk with you prior to now. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's an interesting conversation, right? Because on one end, I think as guys, you know, we want to protect our ladies. We want to, you know, be there for them. Um, it's, I feel like my wife expects that of me as well, but there are also situations where it's like, you know, you use the phrase, I wanted to diffuse the situation. And then the kind of the question is, you know, how do you go about diffusing the situation? When we talked to you before,

you suggested that when the things first happened, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, that you felt like Jorge could have done something different to diffuse the situation. and in fact you almost felt like he escalated it to a point. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, I definitely still feel that way. I feel like, you know, at that point when they were just still, like, you know, arguing with each other, I felt like we could have maybe just, like, ignored that person and kept walking. I felt like it didn't need to get to a point where they're both wanting to, like, be physical with each other.

Also, for me, like, I was uncomfortable in that moment because, you know, this person could have had, like, a gun, could have had a knife, could have done something. something, but also it was just like a random person, right? Like, that's not someone we knew, so it could have been avoided, in my opinion. And he was yelling from afar at y'all to start? No, absolutely not. How close what's good. So, well, one, I mean, when Vannella first called me, that's why I'm most surprised

what you just said, because she said, when we first talked, she said, I understood you were protecting me after talking to my mother and her friend. But so the situation, it's still clear in my mind. I don't forget that kind of stuff. And one of the things I said to Vanilla is, have you been, are you, I've been in the streets. I've come from the hood. So I know a situation when I see one.

And what happened is, so we're standing, waiting for the light to change. And actually, we're joking. And so I said something to her like, you're crazy girl. So we're laughing. And this guy comes up and says, what the fuck did you say to me? So first off, you're behind my woman, right?

And you're saying that to me. So what I said to him was first of all, I'm talking to her. Second of all, you better watch how you talk to me. And I made it very clear because I'm not, there's not, I've never known any time when I've been on the streets that someone who poses a threat goes away by saying, can you please leave us alone? No, that's not going to happen. So I wanted to let him know. I'm not having that. So when I said that, he said, yeah, that's what I thought.

That's right. He keeps talking. Okay, that could have arrested. The light turns. So we get ready to walk across the street as we're walking. Vanel is behind me, which is a problem for me, right? He's behind her with his skateboard. So that's what I'm like, oh, no.

He's not, I'm not going to take a chance. With this man hitting her over, that's not going to happen. And he kept walking. So I said, Vanel, go in front of me, right? And then I turned and I said, I'm going to tell you one time and one time only, walk away. And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. I said, and I ain't going to lie. I said, I will bust your ass.

I'm not playing with you. And I wasn't. I'm not, I'm the one thing you can. I don't mind taking responsibility. I'm going to defend my woman or any woman in my life. Period. It's not negotiable. So I told him that.

And so then when he said something else, I just stepped towards him. And then he walked away. That was the end of it. Because I wanted him to know, I'm not playing with you. Now, could have had a gun, could have had a knife, could have got hit by a car. I don't care. I'm not going to let you pose a threat to my woman, period. What I didn't deal with, so be it.

But you're not going to pose a threat to my woman, period. Yeah, but I don't think I would say that guy was directly behind me. Like there was a good amount of distance between us when we're walking. I think we see it differently. I think we see it differently. I think that I'm pretty well aware of where I saw him and pretty well aware of what he had in his hand. I don't think anyone to think as an attorney, I know, come on, I'm not going to just go around. Hey, let me start a fight with this random guy.

No, I don't care about that. I don't care about that. What I care about is if my woman is, if you pose a threat to her, then you put, that's, I'm going to take care of that. That's just the way I felt. With that said, I understand if she felt uncomfortable and that doesn't work for her, then I respect that. No problem.

But what I said to her on the show, I stand 10 toes down. I'm going to do it every time in every situation. If we walk out of here today and we're all walking together and some man poses a threat, I'm going to step to him, period. I am curious, like just opening it up to the group. I imagine this is a fairly relatable topic for both men and women in relationships. And there seems to be kind of a gray area of like, hey, do I need the protection in this moment?

Or are you puffing your chest and showing off? You know, or are you diffusing the situation in the best possible way? Because it seems to be like almost a lot of gray area. And I'm just kind of curious what any of you have to say about it. Yeah, I mean, for me, I think as a man, you're just protected by nature. You should be. And if you're with your partner and someone poses a threat, whether you know what they have or don't,

you're going to make sure your person is protected. And I get coming from different backgrounds, Jorge and I have a similar one. And so for me, like, I relate to it. Like, if someone's out of pocket and you're right, you don't know if they have a knife or a gun or anything like that, but I'm not going to let you walk behind me because I don't know if you have something on you, right? And if you back down typically in those situations, they do actually continue to get aggressive. So you have to address the situation and say, hey, you got to go that way. it's a problem. And typically, a lot of times, like it happened with them, they'll just walk away.

So for me, like, I'm the same way. If I'm with my partner, anyone that I'm protective of, and someone's making us feel uncomfortable, I'm going to get rid of the situation. Teresa, I feel like you have a lot of, you're listening intently. I can hear your, I can see your brain moving. I mean, I want to ask you. But I just feel like I understand that if that person was right next to us. There was a distance between us. In the beginning. Clarified distance for people, like, was close to, like, from you to Nali and out, you to Nick, like how, because everyone's, I feel like this distance is like a thing. Like, how close was the guy? I would say like a distance from like here to like over there. Like we were walking.

Okay. That guy was walking. It was far. It was a distance. But for you, how far was this man? That is absolutely. So we were. So why would be, she was the one who randomly.

I'm just going to tell you this. I think she, her opinion matters just as much as everybody else is. We were stopped at a lot. I understand. So we were waiting to walk across the street. So he wasn't right behind. So he was walking. So he came up, we're standing, and he comes up from by the lamp right now.

So he comes up. He comes up from behind and he comes, so if Vanilla's here, he comes closer than that and says something to me. Now, we had Rangler and said the same thing, you need to get to step and he said that to him. So when he comes up, if he's back there, why do I care? I don't care if you're back there and you're just yelling insults. insults. But if you're here, that's a threat. Listen, people can, I'm just going to tell you what I saw and what I know. And it's like, as if yesterday, I don't forget that type of stuff. You know, obviously you guys aren't together. It doesn't seem like there's going to be a reconciliation.

But how, pardon me? Well, you tried. You didn't mean, they said they cool. Remember? They forgot? They said they cool. I mean, listen, is there a chance of you guys to get back together? Let's go on. Keep escaping a lot. I am just curious and like, how are you, in question to both you, like, in a future situation, we're clearly you guys see this differently. I think we can agree on that, that we're agreeing to disagree. But in those situations that all couples have, how are you guys going to work through those relationships as opposed to just getting up and quitting?

I'm not, that's, I mean, the athlete in me, I don't quit, I don't quit anything. I'm going to work through it. Part of it to me, like I said, I always keep going back to communication, communication. Because I think that if we understand, then it's, like, I was telling, I was telling the guys, I said, if you're in a relationship with a woman and you and her say, we're on the same team, right? So we're never against each other. So then that means that no matter what happens, if someone feels disrespect, if someone feels misunderstood, instead of coming and going against each other, why not get the benefit of doubt and say, what did you mean by what you just did or what you just said because it made me feel this way.

And then it gives me the opportunity to say, no, that's not what I meant at all. And I think what I, like when I said earlier, about things you learn from relationships, when I was younger, it would just be a person yelling their opinion. And so to me, like I had told Van Nu, and the Bible says, a fool delights in airing his own opinions,

a wise man seeks to get an understanding. So rather than yelling back and forth, No, I learned from young that, okay, no, you know what, I'm going to listen to you. I'm going to let you talk until you're done talking. And then I'm going to say, are you done? And then I want to respond to you so that you know that I heard you and I'm responding to you. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't. And so, but when I, if it fails, I don't go, oh, she's just crazy.

No, I go, okay, so how could I handle it better? Is there something I could have said differently? Because going forth, if I'm going to go further in a relationship, I don't want that to happen again. Vanel, did you feel like he listened and then responded in your communication? I feel like when we had the conversation, I think in that moment we both were a little bit more like heightened and neither of us were really truly like listening to one another or trying to understand each other. I think at that point it was more so just or at least like neither of us were like resolution focused, I don't think. You said that you felt like Jorge talked at you. and not with you. Do you still feel that way?

Like now, present? Like looking back at those conversations? Yeah, we're watching it back. Yeah, yeah. During those conversations, I think so, right? Because I think, and, you know, he was using words, like, I have, you know, experience in this, and I've been, you know, through this, and I'm from here. And in those moments, I felt like he was talking at me. During the show, you had mentioned that your family or specifically your parents didn't want you date anyone older than 40. 10 years older or something like that. What was it about Jorge in your relationship that made you so willing to ignore that after learning about his age? I think at that point I was already obsessed with him. So the age literally did not matter to me at that point. I was like he could be 80 years old

and I'd still be with him. I mean, you clearly had those strong feelings, which I think is what makes us so sad that it didn't work out. But what were some of the things that he brought to this relationship that was different for you. Yeah, contrary to belief, I liked how Dominant Jorge, I liked how Dominant Jorge was. And also, like, behind closed doors, he was just so sweet to, like, all the girls, too, always, like, checking up on everyone, making sure everyone's good, always the person that all the guys would come to talk to. When I would, like, talk to the girls about him, they all have the great things to say,

and, like, I really like that. And, like, he said, he was very protected over me. and I felt safe with him at the time. And I could tell that Jorge wasn't someone that lets his guard down easily and opens up easily. And, you know, he did that with me. So, yeah, I looked those clothes upon. Is there a part of you that regrets walking away that day?

I wouldn't say I regret walking away, but I think that day, if I could have communicated better that day, yeah, for sure. Is there any chance that you guys reconsidered this relationship? You know, you're seeing each other. You know, guys are looking great. You know, anything you guys want to say to each other? I think that the connection, I don't, there's no way in the world you can say that the connection isn't going to always be there.

I don't believe that. I don't believe that. So when I saw Vannell, it's the same feelings that came right back up. I mean, I felt, once again, protective of her. I felt, and which is, for me, is weird, because normally when I meet a woman, it's like, I'm processing information. like to try to project how you will be. With Vanel, it was like, yeah, I kind of, it's kind of like, you know, something about her.

So, and it was different. And I stepped out of my comfort zone and there were things different that Vanel and I didn't have them common that I overlooked because I was like, I like her. So in, but in reference to your question, you never know. I never say never because, you know, you never know what happens. We saw each other, we hug, we had some, like, you know, and so, but. You know? Do you know?

But that being said, that being said, that being said, I feel like this. At the very least, we're friends for life. I told her. There's never a time if she ever needs to call me, I got her. If she ever needs anything, I got her. Like, it's the same way. And even though she doesn't remember Vancouver very well as far as me protecting her, I'm still going to protect you.

I'm just plain. You know, I'm kidding. Go to my distance. Is there anything you want to say to Jorge? No, I think I feel the same. Like, I'll always have love for Jorge. I'll always cherish, you know, this experience we had together. Yeah.

I do want to give you an opportunity to address any feelings you might have about the questions that people are having about when you chose to communicate to Vanel that you had children. Oh, thank you so much. I absolutely hate that shit. I am very, very proud of my children. I speak about them all the time. It's not something that I would hide from anyone, and I did not want to hide it from her. And it wasn't hidden from her.

And if I would have followed my gut, and I'm just going to say, I wanted to tell her in the third day, and that's what my plan was, but I couldn't. If I would have followed my, the way I believe, I should have told it right then. The thing about it is how I justified it in my mind was, I'm not going to lie to her.

So when she said that question, I said, so you want kids, I'm not going to lie. So for all you people out there saying, oh, he lied. I didn't not lie to her. But that is something that I take very serious. And when I shared it with her, and Vannell said to me, so listen, where I'm at is, if my man wants children, then I'm down to have it. But if he doesn't, then I don't care. So I think both of us are aligned with that Because my thing is people I've read people

Oh, you're six of you're gonna have kids Man, I'm gonna have kids, shut up So I feel like that would be something we determined If we stayed together But I was definitely not hiding my kids That was never something I would do I think all of the men on here We're all proud of our children

And I appreciate you for allowing me to address it I think it's obvious that you're proud of your kids I think just what's interesting Because there's so much of your guys's relationship is about like the communication or where you guys struggled. It's interesting to hear how like mentally you had told yourself, I want to tell her on the third date. I want to tell her on the third date.

And we had an opportunity to watch the promise room of you two. And when it all went down, Vinalva's like, I don't even know if you have kids or if you want kids. And she asked two questions back to back. You answered the second question. And it's just kind of fascinating. I wonder if you reflect on that, you know, that mentally you were like, I want to tell her on the third date.

and then you had this expectation or this question that you asked. And then all of a sudden, she's like, you don't have kids. And you're like, oh, she doesn't, she's not worried about that. Do you think sometimes being kind of like that strong-minded person, that strong-willed person where like you're actually not listening to your partner as much as you think you are? Because like she asked the question and you were so like committed to telling her on the third date rather than when she asked about it?

No, I think it's a more stubborn side of me. It didn't have to do it. Venault was the fact that, okay, I wanted to tell her the third date and it was prevented. So you're not going to tell me when I'm going to tell her when I'm going to tell her when you know, no one's going to tell me. Unless Christ comes down, that's the only person who's going to tell me, hey, you can need to do this and I'll do it. So if you tell me I have to do something, I'm not, I'm going to tell her when I feel it's best. So when, but in hindsight, because of the, the way it looked, the optics of it, I would go back and say right in the promise from tell her right then. because I didn't believe going into the promised room as much as I, and I'll give you something that no one knew, like I turned 60 down in Whistler. So I was 59. I did not want to say 60. I was like, that sounds old as fuck. I'm not saying, 59 sounds better. It's not fucking saying 60. And they were like, you're 60. And so I had to, and one of the things that I have struggled with, part of the reason I even came on the show is because I've never believed that age is a factor. And for me, I was age conscious because when people asked me my age,

I'm like, how old do I look? 40. Are you right? You're right. 40? Okay, relax. Please. Watch yourself now. Don't mean? You come for you. So, but, but, um, so I just felt like that was something that used to always bother me. But like, one of the things when you just asked me, yes, if I had to do it all over again, I would definitely do it different. But the stubborn side of me was like, nah, I'm gonna tell her one. I tell her. And that didn't have to do, but now. But so, yeah, okay, I'm in a mistake. Okay. I'm glad we got that. for both Jorge and Vanel, but I want to start with you, Vanel. With this show being about does age really matter when it comes to love? Vanel, last time we spoke with you and talked about your breakup with Jorge, you were pretty strong by saying, actually, I think our age difference ended up playing a role in our relationship ending. As you sit here today, after seeing Jorge, do you still feel that way? I would say so, yeah. Okay. But also a lot of the things that played in role in us not working out was just our communication. Well, part of the of the age difference played a role in the breakup?

I would say, like, what I said earlier, the part of what I felt like he was, like, talking at me or maybe the way we were understanding each other. Okay. But, yeah. Okay. Jorge, how do you feel about that? I don't think that's an age thing. I think that's, once again, a communication style.

Okay. And you've asked me before. You asked me if that has come up before. And I think that just the nature of my profession, sometimes I can be, you know, interrogating folks or a cross-examining. So I have to always check that. And so if ever my partner says, well, I don't feel like you're talking to me, I feel like you're talking at me, then that means I have to pivot and change the way I do it so that they don't feel that way. One of the things I share with Benel was if I had to do it all over again, it should have been a stop and say, okay,

what works for you communication-wise and what works for me? Because me, I'm going to be defensive if you come at me like that and what's worked for you so that we understand that. And I think it would have made it a little bit more easy. So if she felt that way, I think that anytime you're dealing in a relationship as a man with a woman, you have to be open to their feelings, and their feelings are 100%. There's no, you can't say, oh, your feelings aren't valid. No, your feelings are always valid. So then if she says, well, I feel like you're talking at me, that wasn't the same in Vancouver, but she said that's how she felt later. But if you tell me, I feel like you're talking at me, well, then I'm going to stop and pivot and say, okay, my bad, let me address you

different way. Is it hard to hear that Vanel feels that your age played a role in? No, because I don't think it did. I'm not worried about that. Vinell loves me, man. What you're saying? Well, before we move on, do either of you have anything you want to say to one another? I say that Benel, you know that our connection is dope and deep, and we have very strong feelings for each other. And I'm never going to say never because you never know what might happen. And you and I know just every time we even be in the hallway, we're like, well, you know. So I'll leave it that open.

I'll leave that as a chapter open and that as a book open. But you know my feeling is extremely strong for you. And you know our connection is on another level. It is hot in here, you know. Yeah. Do you need a fan? I got you, baby girl. Oh, my God.

No, I'm good. I mean, I would say I agree with, you know, what you said. Like, you know, the connections I have for you are really real and deep. And connection like that doesn't just, you know, go away that fast that quickly. Like, I literally, in my mind, you were literally like my husband. Like, there is nothing else, you know. But yeah, I don't know. Well, if you ask around on a date, just let us know, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I'll text you. I'll text you. But, you know, one thing I just said to her, I don't want to belabor the point, but I said to her that I think a lot of times people act as being in love is a right, and it's not. It's a privilege. Because it's why three quarters of the world are lonely. So whenever you get the opportunity to have a deep connection with someone,

you got to make sure that you exhaust every possibility. Due to Derek's incredible skincare routine, he and Pfeiffer may not have looked it, but they were, in fact, 20 years apart in age. While they ended the journey with supportive parents and a commitment of staying together, life off-camera pulled them in different directions. Unfortunately, Pfeiffer is celebrating her birth,

in Japan and is sad to not be here, but Derek, can you explain what happened post-filming? Yeah, I think some of the things that showed up while filming, some of the questions she had or some of the concerns about her moving, you know, across the country and giving up her life, friends and all that, I think, honestly, I mean, looking at it now, I think that just, it was just too big, it was too much. when she got back to her normal life outside of the bubble, you know, I think that there was probably some influences there, you know. What do you mean by that?

Well, obviously, there's an age gap. So her friends are probably, for the most part, much younger than me, right? And probably not married, probably single. So rather, you know, the conversation she's having are influenced by a little bit of them being selfish because they don't want to lose their friend. And it's probably something that they haven't, you know, experienced yet. And I get it, like, looking at it like, wow, you went away and you found this guy and you're going to pick up and move your entire life for just him.

That doesn't make any sense. That's crazy. And so I understand where she probably was influenced, and I was concerned about it, you know? And that was one of the things when we talked in Vancouver. I tried to address it as much as possible, but there was also this Fyfer was a bit reserved with it. Like, she just was like, I want to be present in the moment. I don't want to think about that. And for me, it was like, well, I mean, we have to think about it.

Do you think Fyfer painted an accurate picture of what her life in lifestyle was back at home while you were getting? Sounds good. Why are you laughing, Derek? Oh, man. To a certain degree. I think... What about to the degree that maybe she didn't? So, yeah, I think that her living with her roommates,

probably, like, college campus, sorority girl style. I mean, I was asking you straight. Like, you told me off-line. I would love to hear you tell the story about how you found out where she lived. Wow. All right. So it's what it is. Let's go.

After she came to Dallas, obviously we broke up a few weeks after that. And, you know, we had a conversation. She sent me a message. I left some things there. So can you mail them to me? And I'm like, yeah. And the way I am, she sent the message and I, like, packed them up within 15 minutes. I'm like, whatever.

I don't want to think about it. But I looked at her address and, you know, how you can satellite look in. And so probably. I'm not psychotic at all. It just happened. I was just, you know. Just curious. Just curious.

It happens. There's nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with being a little bit intrusive. I would do the same thing. I'm like looking at it's like. I always do. Yeah. So I, um, I zoned in and it was like fraternity and sorority houses, like on the same block.

And then I was able to piece together like, oh, she did say she lived with, you know, more than a normal amount of. roommates. Okay. So like, okay, so she probably lived in a sorority house. And yeah, looking at them, like, well, shit, like, that's something that I probably needed to know. Yeah. Because I can tailor, as much as I can, I can tailor my conversation to, like, this is probably what you're going to get. Like, this is going to seem insane. Like, you're basically still living, like, a college life, you know? and now you're essentially, you're going to go be with a man that's taken care of a five-year-old. You know, that's a lot.

Do you know if she's still in school or just living that lifestyle? I don't think that you can't live in a sorority house if you're not still in school. So in Fifey's defense, she's not living in a sorority house. I think she just has maybe roommates that were friends from a sorority. But I don't think she's still in school. She's graduate. Yeah, she's not still in school. I know that.

So, yeah. And were there ever conversations about you going to stay with her and visit her in Seattle? Yeah. When she was in Dallas, we talked about me coming and visiting and she just, you know, was pretty, you know, adamant like, hey, I'd rather get like a hotel. I mean, I'd stay with her in which I wasn't, I mean, I'm 43 at the time, 44. I'm like, yeah, I mean, I'm a grown man. Like, I'm not going to burden your, you know, your roommates. I get it.

I want to be totally respectful of their space as well. So I'll make sure they were good and I'll get us a place. So she had, you know, some reservations. I probably should have asked deeper questions then. Like, okay, I get it. And I'll definitely make sure that that's taken care of and everyone's happy with, you know, and I don't want to inconvenience them. But the fact that you're randomly bringing it up, like,

is there something else that you're thinking about deeper? And I feel like that was just, you know, a part of it. like the list of things that were probably just racing through our mind. How long did you guys date for post-filming? A month. A month? Yeah, so, yeah. She came to Dallas about a week and a half later for my birthday.

And, I mean, things were great. You know, we had a great time with some of my friends and family. And she met my mom and my mom's husband as well. Did she ever have a chance to meet your kids? No, no. for me, the way I was looking at the next three months, you know, even some of my friends, they, I mean, my friends had questions too. Like, I'm not, I don't want to just sound like it's totally on the fight for like. It was definitely question marks as to how this looks. And I just

told them, like, let's just see what the next three months looks like. Because that was living in a bubble. Now we live across the country. And so this is a whole new phase of dating that we're about to go through and experience and see, you know, do we like talking on the phone? Do we like FaceTime? Like all those things, do we stay connected that way? Or are we just seeing each other once a month? Or, you know, like, it was a lot that was unanswered that I wanted to see before ever going down that path. And for me, meeting my kids is I always allow the mothers first.

Like, hey, we'll sit down and have a conversation with the person I'm dating. Just out of respect for you. And that's always worked. I haven't had people meet. My oldest has met, you know, to your girlfriend. is Dominic, you know, he hasn't. He's met one. And so I'm extremely protective of that because, as Andrew said earlier, I don't want to set, you know, that culture, like in our household that, yeah, dads with this

lady and, okay, she's gone, and here's another one. So. During filming when you met her parents, she seemed visibly nervous. She was very uncomfortable, very anxious. You, you know, tried to scoot her close to you. you, consoler, she actually scooted further away from you. Get away from me, bro. Get away from me, yeah. What were your feelings then and watching it back, are they the same or have they changed?

Well, I mean, watching it back because I was there with her, and I know what the night before looked like and how nervous she was. And I always try to take into consideration my age, and I know that I'm feeling, okay, she's 23 years old, right? And her relationship with her parents is a lot different than my relationship with my parents. Right. So I understand the concerns. You're still getting to know me and trying to have that conversation.

And you may have unanswered things about just your life that you may not have talked to your parents about at that age. Right. So you're going to present this new relationship. How are my parents going to receive it? How, what are they going to say to him? you know, and how is it going to influence me? Because I think at that age, you're probably still, you know, depending on the circumstance of growing up,

you're probably still pretty connected and influenced by your parents to a certain degree. So I think that she may have had some concerns there. You know, every relationship that ends doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't beneficial to us or that we couldn't learn something from it. And I thought it was really interesting watching it back. Fifer referenced multiple times previous relationships and toxic boyfriend from what we've learned of you, Derek, you seem like a pretty solid stand-up guy. Thank you.

And I'm just curious, as you reflect on a relationship that didn't work out, what role do you feel like Fifer played in your life and what did you learn from that relationship? Right. I completely agree. I think that, as Jorge said, every relationship is not that it's a bad relationship, it's a learning experience. I'm so grateful and appreciative for that relationship. I have so much respect for Fyfer. She's aged beyond her years. And that's probably the only time I can say honestly in my life that I've had a breakup that wasn't toxic. Like it was, it wasn't a problem. It was understanding on my part. I've always felt that her heart is pure and I know that it is. So it's, I don't think that this was something. It didn't come from a place of like she was hiding it.

It was like, this is just the way it is. She can't deal with it anymore. And knowing her heart, I wasn't going to push her in any direction. I just wanted to be respectful of that. But our relationship, like I learned so much as, as far as being open, I don't think that I've been open and probably like that. I'm probably like a decade before. And, you know, I came into the experience wanting to be open to finding my person and knowing that it may not look like, you know, what I typically date.

because obviously that wasn't working. So she was so different for me, you know, and I saw, like, I'm really big on a person's heart and their intentions, and they were just so pure. You know, our conversations, if there was something that I, that she wasn't comfortable with, she had one time when we had, it was off camera, the conversation about her moving when she was extremely uncomfortable about it. And it was before the dinner with you guys. we had a really rough go for about two or three hours, which was crazy because it was like smooth selling. The guys like almost made fun of us because it was like, y'all are living in just bubble inside of a bubble,

like they don't have any problems. So it was getting closer to the end, and now we have this problem, and I'm sitting in the bathroom for like 45 minutes, and she's in another room, and we're not talking, and I'm like, what the fuck's going on? You know, and then I go to the wait room, and Logan sees me.

And he's like, he's like, halfway happy that I actually have a party. He's like, finally, you got some a problem. Like, I'm like just sitting there. Christmas napping. Yeah. Make a bad. But my, I would say a good or a bad trait that I've had in a past when that happens, I'll shut down a little bit. And it takes me some time and I'll walk away. I was so proud of her, her maturity. I came back into the apartment. She said, hey, can we sit down and talk? And And she was so vulnerable and open, she was like, look, I want to mooter Dallas. I'm going to moot her Dallas. I'm just scared.

Like, that's what's going on. Yeah. And so, you know, that was such a powerful moment for me to take, like, damn, like, you know, at this, at her age, she took control of that situation, an area that I've been weak, she's able to help me get through. I'm really curious. You guys clearly had a great connection. I think the chemistry was off the charts. Clearly, you know, you're talking about moments that Fifer showed this maturity that surprised you. And I think when, again, you're the older person.

You're trying not to, like, quiz the person about, like, how mature they are or aren't. And yet, Fyfer showed you these moments of maturity. And, again, this is not like a rip on Fyfer, but I think it sounds like you came to learn that, like, once she got outside of this bubble and got back to her life, she maybe realized that, like, you know what, age is playing a role and why this relationship can't work out. I'm not ready for what Derek has or his lifestyle. Yeah, I agree. I think when you're in the bubble, like, I think she was completely ingrained in the experience. And even when I first brought up my kids, like the night before, I was, like, freaking out and talk about it. Because for me, I know how, I know the severity of it, right? That's so serious. And she took it so easy. So it was like maybe she was going with the flow because she hasn't been in that situation before, right? So it was like, yeah, it's cool. We'll figure it out. Yes, it's cool. But for me, those steps were like, monumental. I'm like, this is huge. And as far as if we can continue or, you know, we decide, like, this does not work for me. And I was like so, like, I was grateful for the way that she took, like, the things that are flawed about me or the responsibilities that I have and all that

in that moment. But I think getting back home, you know, she had those influences. And that's fair, right? She's 23 years old. You're going to be influenced by your circle that you're around. Are you more less likely or about the same your willingness to date someone younger than you? No, I would say I'm about the same. Let's say you meet someone, they're younger than you. I'm curious how going forward will you protect yourself and your heart from the same thing ending up? Because a lot of people have bad partners, Fifer talked about a bad X, and it wouldn't be surprising to me that you meet someone younger than you.

And they're like, oh, this Derek, he's a great guy. you know, there's a lot of reasons why you seem appealing, but how will you protect yourself from meeting someone like Fyfer, which again, no disrespect, you know, talks about when she gets older, like you seem like a great guy, but maybe just isn't in the place in her life to actually meet you where you're at. I think having deeper conversations, like some of those things that I may have touched on, and whereas Fyfer was like, I don't really want to go there. But, I think that's a big part of it. Like, you know what?

I'm going to have to make you uncomfortable right now because this is actually where I'm met in life. And not that you have to have the perfect response, but I need you to get the entire picture, right? And see how you, and see what the response is and see what the outcome is from there. And I think that's probably an area that I could say, you know, I can improve on from that relationship. It's tough. Yeah, because there is that moment where you guys were talking about moving, you know, and I've said this many times. As I've gotten older, I realized that my 20s were me living up to the expectations I had when I was like a teenager. Right. And you're like, this is how I had planned. This is what I had planned. And I remember hearing Fifer saying things like, I made this promise to myself. I promised this to myself. And you're on the other end being like, you know, listen, we'll just figure it out as we go.

Looking back, do you see that as a sign of maybe this kind of the gap between your maturity levels? Yes, I do. On the front end, when she explained like that she moved away. for college. She went back home for a while and then moved again. So I took it or moved across the country to go to finish up school in Seattle. I took that as, you know what, she's had these experiences since she's kind of been on her own. So she does understand that it can be rocky, but you can still make it, right? And in that moment when she had that conversation, I was like trying to get her to lean on her previous experiences, right? Because I know that I can't push mine on her and say, hey, it's just going to be all right. It's just going to be all right. Just trust me.

I was just, you know, trying to convey like, look, you've been down this road before. Yes, it looks very different, but you've been uncomfortable, and it doesn't mean that you can't grow, and it doesn't mean that we can't grow. What does your dating life look like today? I'm single. I, uh, I took some time. And I mean, like I said, I put a lot into that, into the entire experience. It just took a lot for me to go through it. And being that open for me is just not that easy to just turn around and do that again. So I would much rather take my time, you know, and make sure that I'm ready so I can show up for a person, you know, if I'm going to truly try today to get. Okay. But are the DMs open? The DMs are open. I'm open to me.

Was there any moment where you looked back at maybe some of the other women who were at the retreat and thought maybe I should like rekindle with someone else, maybe I should follow up with the connection that I had that I didn't see all the way through. Everyone's clearing their throat. What? I didn't do anything. What are you?

Yeah. Should I ask y'all? There's something going on. No. I would clear my throat. I didn't think Jorge was going to start calling. I cleared my throat. And first of all, Derek is just a great,

guy. Now. No. See, I did that. Like that? You're outstanding. First of all, I mean, if you're broken up with someone, you were certainly allowed to visit past connections. All right. So who's the connections? We all want to know. He doesn't have... Who's like... Can we let Derek Gaster? Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah, whose DMs was DMU was out? Did I have any previous connections? Well, I just was curious. Maybe circle back. From the show? No. From the show. I mean, like, in Whistler? In Whistler, did I? develop any? I didn't develop any connections in the Whistler. Is there anyone from the show that you went on any... God.

This is any days we get their conversations. It's not a crime, by the way. All right. Say laugh. Everyone loves to keep in touch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think everyone chats in the group chat. Sometimes we text each other. No one kept in touch with me. Exactly. But I'm with you guys. Wow. Exactly. Exactly.

You can touch with a few people. Before we move on, obviously with Fyfer not being here, it seems like you got to know Fyfer a little bit. Is there anything we need to say or offer on Fyfer's behalf before we move on? I mean, I think Fyfer is an amazing girl. I think my heart was, oh, it is with hearts throb, seeing their story. Like, I think that they're both so well-spoken and articulate. And I don't know, when I see it, I'm like, oh, my gosh, we were rooting for you. But I honestly do really resonate with Fifers' experience back home.

because I think something people may not think about is that it's an incredibly unrelatable experience to come home and say that you met this guy who lives in another state and he has two kids and he's older than me and whatever and I am somebody who also takes my friend's opinions very seriously and it's really hard honestly to tell people about the situation that you're in but you kind of have to keep it under wraps and whatever and frankly it does feel a little bit delusional when your friends haven't met the person and you really don't have the perfect chance to prove yourself or your relationship and they haven't even seen it play

out on TV. They don't know what your experience was. So I understand that that can be a really hard thing to bring back home. And if you let others' opinions get to you or you really sit around and ruminate about what it is you did, it can be a bit of a trip. I'm curious, Andrew, how'd you deal with that? Because like on one side, I can't totally get what Libby is saying. But it's kind of like, all right, man, I'm dating something younger. I want to know that she can not be listening to people. Like, I want her to do what she wants to do. How did you guys strike that balance between, like, wanting to respect her friendships?

But at the same time, want to make sure that she was making decisions for herself and feeling like that was happening. Well, I mean, if you watch the show, Libby's very outspoken. You know, I don't think she's someone that lets, you know, people's opinions get to her so much. And I met Nina and them again. Like, we've hung out since then. So I think they saw our relationship. They saw how we were together, not just the little bit that they saw on the show.

And they saw that we were, you know, very compatible. They saw the love that we had for each other. You know, as a father, I think that's what I would want to see if there was an age difference, you know, with one of my daughters dating someone. I'd want to see that person consistently show up, you know, for my daughter and, you know, see what that relationship looks like. And I see, I think as they've seen it, they've been very accepting of it. Let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back to get into it with the rest of the couples. Don't go away. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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And we're back to the Age of Attraction Season 1 Reunion. And it's time to get into Teresa and John. Woo! Teresa and John, also known as Age of Attractions Prince Harry and Megan Markle, minus the royal drama, were immediately smitten with each other. But could their fairy tale romance survive a 27-year age gap? And Teresa's fear of outside judgment? Let's pop the bubble and ask.

Well, I want to start with you, Teresa. Obviously, I think I speak for everyone when we were all rooting for you, as Tara Banks famously said. The audience loves you guys. I think we're all very sad and heartbroken to hear that you guys aren't together. Following that very beautiful ceremony at the top of the mountain, let's walk us through kind of like what happened next in your relationship. So, yeah, we left Vancouver and we went to Chicago. He came to my hometown, met a couple of my friends, stayed with me for a couple days. We had a great time. There were, you know, no issues. Everything was great. It was very sad to see him leave. And then we went and we met up in New York a couple weeks later. And that was sort of like the first time that we really...

Went to Naples first. Oh, you're right. Sorry, my bad. Yeah, we spent Fourth of July in Florida. Again, met a couple of my friends. Everything was great. He came more or less to me. And yeah, we had a great time. Everything was wonderful. No cracks in anything. And then we went to New York. And it was then that things really started to weigh on me, I guess, and there were some outside influences. One, the show had kind of broken with the Daily Mail and there were some negative things. And I started getting anxious. And the other thing was we went to get drinks with his sister and another one of our cast members. And they really made me feel very uncomfortable about my age. God, I didn't expect to get emotional. Who made you feel uncomfortable? His sister and the other cast member? Yeah. Yeah, I just felt like they were really sort of like focusing on their ages.

And I felt really kind of like left out of conversations. It almost felt like purposeful in some ways that like, They were really trying to, like, make me feel old. And I tried to keep my cool, and I just couldn't handle it. So we were supposed to go out to dinner, and I actually, like, felt sick. So I went back to the hotel, and that was when I really, like, broke down. And I had texted John and told him, you know, I was really upset and everything. And, you know, his initial response was, you know, very.

supportive and that we were going to talk when he got back. And I just kind of tumble-weated in my feelings. And I just couldn't get my head back to where it was before. And the next morning, he and I tried to have a conversation. And I tried to, you know, I was very emotional and tried to express what was going on inside of me. And I just didn't feel like John could give me the support that I needed. Like it was, and no offense, but like he just didn't have any words. And I was like sitting there just like trying to explain where I was at. And it was like silence. And I just was like.

Do you remember some of the things you were trying to explain and how you were trying to explain? Yeah. I mean, I was basically reliving what had happened the night before. And I was saying, you know, like this is just too hard. You know, I was just dying for some support, some like reassurance of some sort. And I didn't get any. And so I was like, well, you have nothing to say. So I'm going to go.

And I went for like a walk around Manhattan. And then he left and went to his sisters. And that was like the first really bad part of the breakup. I'm sure. I mean, I'd love to hear your point of view of that story. Was spot on. Yeah. Exactly what happened.

Any, do you wish you would have handled it differently? Like as you reflect back on that moment, what would you have done different if you could? I think during the show I said a million times. and two million times, the age isn't an issue unless we make it an issue. Sure. And she, and I'll speak for you, felt uncomfortable being in public and the people looking at us differently.

That wasn't it at all. I never felt like that. I never felt like walking down the street, like going out to dinner, like our two trips prior that we had taken. And even like when we first got to Manhattan, we went to lunch, I felt like very confident being next to you, did not feel like anybody was looking at us. I said that like a few times. I was like, I don't think anybody like looks at us weird. Like I feel like we look really good together. And I felt super confident in that. I think what it really was. And we did have a conversation after that ceremony on the mountaintop that we were going to have these kinds of issues. And we promised each other that. that we were going to, like, really be there and support each other. And that was what I was looking for. And I just didn't know why that had – it felt like it had changed for you.

And I don't know why, but I felt like the guy who I had seen in Naples, who, like, literally held me and was like, you tell me what you need, tell me what you need, was gone. I didn't know where that went, but it wasn't there anymore. So are you saying you felt like she was making the – age and issue, and that's why you had nothing to say? That's what you told me. What do you mean? That's what you said. You didn't feel comfortable with Catherine and my sister, and you felt, and I'll spare some words, you didn't feel good with us together.

I went back to the hotel. We went to sleep. I woke up the next morning, and you just said, I can't do this anymore. Well, I said a lot more than that. I said, I'll keep some details out, but. I think you just went blank. I don't think you really like even could hear me. No, I heard you. But you didn't say anything. You literally were quiet and I was sitting there waiting for you to respond and you had no response. I think we discussed age so many times that you deserve to be comfortable with who you're with and I deserve the person I'm with to be comfortable with me. I think it was just going out in public more often and, you know, each time we got together, it was a question.

Naples was fun. Chicago was perfect. New York was perfect the first half. And you deserve to be with someone. You're 100% comfortable in your skin with. And I know that. And I was comfortable with you. I just, I was asking for what it was that we had promised to each other. What I feel like I just heard was you said that age wouldn't be a factor unless the two of you made it a factor. And then I'm hearing that at dinner you're sitting with this castmate and your sister kind of making age a factor. I mean, she deserves to feel, you know, I'm sorry, and I don't know what my sister was hinting at. I don't know what Catherine was hinting at. That's how you felt. Unfortunately, it's yours and I's relationship. But it doesn't matter what my sister thinks. It doesn't matter where Catherine thinks. So, well, interesting enough, let's just, for the sake of assumption, assume that maybe Teresa was projecting or reading it a certain way, whatever.

But that's how she felt. And what I'm hearing from Teresa is that she needed. her man, her partner to hear her out, validate her, talk her through it, and I'm almost hearing from you. It's like, I'm done talking about our age, and I got nothing more to say, and you kind of shut down. You know, it's like it's one thing to date in a bubble, but you guys are outside of a bubble, and you were going to face some certain realities, and Teresa was trying to communicate to you, hey, like, I need this from you, I need to talk to you, and it didn't seem like you were having it.

I think the beauty of a relationship is two people that pick each other every day and they go through those fights and you're waking up next to the person. Oh, they're picking me. I'm picking them. And I guess we got to a point where we just didn't pick each other. And was that me? Was that us? Was that her? It didn't work out. But I think, yeah, I think I have to look at myself and maybe I was tired of the age becoming a factor. How do we look in public? How do you feel? Literally, it was the first time. It had become a factor. Leah, you seem... I'm just curious, because, like, his story don't add up, and she's telling her truth, so it's just very interesting. You know what I'm saying?

Why is my story not add up? For what she's saying, for her experience, because you're downplaying everything that she's saying. And I'm just trying to understand your side because you're like, that didn't happen. You're like, but she's literally saying how she was feeling at the time, and I'm just trying to just, it's just so interesting. I don't think he's downplaying it at all.

I think he's taking accountability for it. I don't understand. I mean, to me, if he has a feeling, I can understand the age factor he may have gotten more with it. I don't get into their relationship because I think that they had a beautiful relationship, but I don't think that he's ducking and dodging anything. I think he's talking about it straight up. Yeah, I mean, I think he's acknowledging that things don't work out,

but it doesn't feel like he's acknowledging, I guess, this conversation, which is fine if you don't want to, but it's just more, if you guys don't get back together, we'll be sad. But, you know, again, I hope that we all learn a little bit about ourselves and our relationships. And again, I think what I hope, maybe if you're open to it, regardless of what the topic was, it sounds like age was the topic. But like, you're acknowledging that you just shut down, you know, emotionally. And like, yeah, I totally agree with you. Every day you have to show up and you've got to choose each other, which is real, but it also can kind of be a cliche when you're just saying it.

But in this moment, you didn't, it sounds like you didn't show up for Teresa. Like, you didn't pick her in that moment by saying, how can I be there for you? Right. It sounds like you quit. But maybe I'm wrong. That's a breakup, no? So you're just, so. So you're acknowledging that moment, you were, quit.

Well, if you're saying that that's what it was, that's your action was equal to a breakup. Well, what are you saying then? What? Was that ultimately what caused a breakup? Was that he didn't show up in that moment? That was the initial big swipe, yeah. I don't deserve to date someone who texts me. I feel disgusting with you.

I never said that. I never said that. Did you take that as something about yourself? She deserves to be comfortable with who you're with. I said I was disgusted with myself. You just, that's terrible. I wouldn't want to date someone who feels like that. Yeah.

Well, I was looking for you to say, why do you feel this way and like let me help you get through this? I mean that's what relationships are about like you do pick each other every day but it doesn't mean you don't have conflict and so if you have a conflict does that mean oh I'm not picking you today? No it means you work through it. We had conflict before that we had conflict with communication on the phone and I said tell me what you need and we talked over the phone. Yeah he would disappear. What does that mean he would disappear? Like I would be texting him and I wouldn't hear back from him for hours. Did your phone die or? Well, if that's what you're referring to, that one time that I was like, I am not happy with the way that like I'm texting

you. You're telling me like you're right there and yet I don't hear back from you. And I didn't know what was going on. It's like a Friday night. I mean, this is a lose-lose situation. You brought it up. Speaking of true. Yeah, I'm not a big textor. And we're in a long-distance relationship. We called. We face time. Well, then there's a problem, obviously. But I think you deserve to be with someone you're comfortable with.

So do you. So does everybody on the earth. You text me saying that you did not, you felt disgusting that night. We went back to the hotel. That's, that's, I feel bad in that. If I'm your boyfriend and you feel disgusting going out with me, that's no fun for any, either of us. You know, you deserve.

So, I mean, she just said. I don't mean, she just said. I don't want to chime in. But like... Go ahead. Sorry, we're having an argument. No, that's fine. I honestly, again, appreciate you guys being honest.

But I'm trying to hear both of you. You know, we've been in fights. You know, sometimes she might say something where I don't agree or, you know, she might talk about how she's feeling right now and how I might make her feel. But like, it really sounds like whatever she said, you just shut down. And I'm just like wondering why. Maybe I was over it. Okay. Was it the culmination of certain things?

Is it lack of response always shutting down, though? I mean, someone who already struggles speaking and being, like, you've talked about that a lot. I'm not trying to defend anyone, but is that necessarily shutting down, not necessarily knowing what to answer in that moment. And then I'm now, this is different. This is a few months later. But in that moment, you know, you could always have that conversation later. It's hard.

I'm just trying to take me outside. Yeah, you could. If you say, let's have this conversation later. How difficult is that to have a response there as well? No question. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, you know what, I need some time to, like, think about this. Sure. And let's talk in another hour.

I hear you. That didn't happen. We filmed a show. That show was centered around age differences. As you all know, you got asked that question a lot. It was the focus of the show. And unless you guys disagree, it's not, Teresa saying post-show, this was one of the first times you felt whatever you felt and brought this to John's attention. And you're saying in that moment, you were over it. I mean, we had,

we had discussions before. There was stuff said over text that I didn't appreciate about, like what? You were, you felt bad stealing my youth. That was that night that we had that conversation. It was beforehand. I don't really feel comfortable like airing this out. Okay, well, that's why we're here. Well, it sounds like the two of you were able to at some point, reconnect if this was just the first swipe at a breakup. So what were the following days like after this? Do you want to talk? You can talk. Okay. So the next, actually, that morning after I took my walk and I had a clear head, I did contact John and I was like, I'm really sorry for my feeling overwhelmed. And, you know, I apologized. And we talked a little bit about like what we were doing that day. The next morning,

he came back to the hotel and we had breakfast. We had a great conversation. We went on a walk. He was leaving that day. I was staying in New York. We gave each other a hug and a kiss goodbye, like a real kiss, not on the cheek. And we went our separate ways. And then I thought we were doing good. We were back. And it didn't turn out to be that way. Then that next week, I, we again had like some bad communication issues. I brought up something that I was curious about with regard to an Instagram thing and didn't hear from him. What Instagram thing? I'd just rather not mention it because I don't think it's relevant.

But it was just something that I had seen that I was like, what is this? And I reached out to John and he did not reply for, like, like an hour. And then I got like three words. And that was it. And so I called, didn't pick up, nothing. And then the next day, I write him again, and he totally ghosts me. And I didn't talk to him for weeks. What was his three word response? It was something like, don't worry about it. Very vague. John, is there anything you would like to clear up in this moment? Was that a growl? I'm using your voice. Say something. Speak on.

Yeah. Like it sounds like, did you think you were in a relationship at that point? No. Okay. When was this? What month are you talking about? I mean, you got to speak on, John. Speak or true.

Yeah. Yeah, explain. I would love to hear. I, oof. You got pretty nasty with me. After that, yeah. Got pretty nasty with me. I did. And I want to be totally respectful.

and I want to support you through this journey. And maybe I didn't communicate with you in the moment when you needed it, but I want to support you now. That being said with some of the communication we had post-breakup, if we were not in this bubble and we didn't have to support each other right now, which I do want to support you. With the way you communicated with me and the things you said, I don't think we would ever speak again.

Okay. I mean, I was very frustrated when I left you that voice memo. I said some things that I regret and I said that later. But that is sometimes what happens when you are ghosted. We were broken up. I didn't think we were. Then I apologize. Because we never really declared that we were broken up and we had continued to talk and when we like to buy each other. It's kind of semantics. At the end of the day, we're all adults. And I'm just like, did you expect a response from whatever. question you asked. Yeah. And it was actually me trying to, in some ways, protect you because I saw some things that I was like, I don't think you're going to want, you know, out there. No, don't comment. Jorge, is there anything? I'm not in the business of speaking

people's relationships. I don't think that John is speaking his authentic truth because I think he's protecting Teresa, which I respect. And so if this man's going to choose to protect her, I'm all for it because I'm all about protecting relationships and I understand it. But I think that there's so not fair. First of all, you're like gaslighting a little bit here because there's nothing I need protection of. I take full responsibility for what it was that I said in that police memo. And if you want to play it and you want to air all of our dirty laundry, let's do it. I'm not, I don't, once again, I was being just as respectful to him as he's claiming to be to me with protecting me and supporting.

me. So, I mean, I'm holding back some information. He's, you know, saying that he is protecting me by maybe not saying that I was nasty in that voice memo. I don't know. I mean, listen, every healthy couple has had to apologize, you know, hey, I'm sorry I've been an asshole. I'm sorry I've been whatever. But I think what we're talking about here is how you guys communicated or didn't communicate. And so, like, you seem like a great guy. And the guy I got to know filming, like I really enjoyed my time and just watching it back, you were always showing up for Teresa. You seemed like this really empathetic, really understanding guy.

The guy sitting here right now, I'm not getting that same energy. I'm getting like I was over it, whatever. And what am I missing? You, I just... You don't want to say anything? I don't know. No. I mean, you guys fell in love on TV.

Yeah, and like I will 1,000% say, like, John is an amazing guy. I mean, we had our issues and there were things, and that was the demise of the relationship. And, like, yeah, we're getting emotional and a little heated here. But at the end of the day, like, I thought you were an amazing guy, man, whatever on the show. I still think you are. I just think our communication fell apart. I don't really know what happened, but my only thing that I would say is that, like, you got to learn how to communicate better.

I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I really care about you. I always have over this last nine months. So, you know, I'm not here to, like, trash you. I'm not here to, like, dig up bad stuff. But I think that you are very closed off right now. And I think when we were on the show and we were together, you were very open, you're very comfortable, and that's why we flowed so well. And I don't know. That's just my take.

Yeah, I'll admit that, yeah, maybe I did shut down at the hotel. I did. And did you deserve a better, better communication? 100%. But I think in that moment, if we're being truthful with each other, I was probably just fed up with age being an issue, with you not feeling comfortable together. I don't want to date someone who feels gross next to me. And that text hurt. I was out with my sister. We had a reservation for three, her favorite restaurant. That text hurt me because you deserve to feel comfortable with whoever you're dating.

I agree. I agree. And I, yeah, I just shut down. Yeah, I did. And I didn't communicate. and the lines were very blurry after that walk. After breakfast the next morning, they were very blurry. And hindsight's 2020, if I wish I could go back and say, no, we're not doing this.

You know, we need some space and just shut it down. Maybe we rekindle in a couple weeks, but I didn't. And we didn't. And that the lines were, it was a little gray. And I do regret that. All right. Well, I appreciate that. Do you think age played a role?

and your guise's demise? Yes. In what way? I just think that we didn't have the communication skills that we needed. And I think the distance definitely had a huge part in it because, you know, when you live across the country from each other, you can't just be like, let's go grab coffee and go for a walk and, like, talk through this or whatever.

Like, it's telephone. And as he said, he doesn't like to text. So if you don't have those basic communication skills, like, what do you have? What did you learn about yourself in this process, John? Funny. I thought I could communicate in the bubble, and I feel like Teresa allowed me to have extremely hard conversations. I would consider myself anxiously attached, and that's something I'm working on. And in the bubble, when the kids came, she kind of shut down and went in her, you know, separate

part of the house and I was like chasing after I was like what's wrong what can I do for you and she's like John just let me have my space like I'm fine the kids are coming I just need my space and it made me think fuck nothing's wrong with us I'm just oh teresa's gone and that's not healthy she needs her space and I remember she was on the stove and I was like what's like how can I be here for you right now and she said I just need my space and that was the first time I was allowed to have a really hard and uncomfortable conversation because it was me. I was anxiously attached. I thought I did something wrong. She was in the bathroom throwing up and I text. She was like, just leave me alone. And nothing's wrong with our relationship in that moment. I just need to learn

to be, you know, confident in what we had. And I've learned that. I know I'm anxiously attached. And she allowed me to have hard conversations. Did I fail later on? Yeah, it definitely wasn't the best communication, but in the experience, she made me a lot better. Selfishly, I can thank her for that. Did that attachment style carry on throughout after filming? Yeah, I mean, not to be the guy that talks about baseball all the time, and, you know, his glory years, baseball was ripped away from me, so I've taken that into relationships, and it's not healthy. I think our breakdown was communication. And I think not to make excuses,

it's easier when you're living with each other in the bubble. It's easier if you live in the same city. I think that's just common sense. I'm proud of us for taking a really realistic approach to it. I did at least. I think, and I'm not going to speak for her. But, yeah, I think communication was a breakdown. I'm curious.

Just reflecting on this relationship, how will you work on your attachment style or whatever it is that causes you to shut down when things get difficult? Just be confident in what the relationship you built with that person. Be secure. And I think I was secure in Vancouver and in Whistler with her. That was kind of like the honeymoon, you know. Yeah, totally. What I'm hearing is it was fun, it was great. there was this huge chemistry, you know, but when shit hit the fan, you cut and run.

Well, shit hit the fan like a couple weeks before New York. Whenever. No, I know. We had some conversations that I didn't like over the phone, and I was like, we're going to talk about this in person. And then we went to New York. Did you talk about those things in person in New York, or did they kind of just be brushed under the rug? You text me that you felt bad when we were away. And you wanted me to see other people.

You felt that... No, I asked you if you wanted to. And if you did, I said, please just be honest with me. Yeah, and I didn't appreciate that because it's not something I do in a relationship. It's not something... Well, I was just kind of giving you sort of an opening or an opportunity to be... Because we didn't have great communication. Again, like, you don't like to text.

Our phone calls were very far and few between. I felt like there was this distance that was growing. And so I was like, huh, maybe... maybe he wants to start dating other people. And so I was like, let me just throw this out there and see how his response was. And you were like, no, absolutely not. And I didn't realize that my asking you that question would have made you upset. You didn't tell that to me.

So, you know, I was literally just trying to like fish to see what was going on. Because I didn't know where we were a variety of times after we left Naples, more or less, I think. Teresa, I got to ask about your kids. Obviously, they played a big role in your feelings and your decision. Did your kids ever find out how old John was? They just found out. They just found out. From watching the show back, pretty much.

And why did you never tell them? Well, John and I had broken up. And, you know, I just didn't, I was like, what's the point now? Like, nobody... They weren't curious? I mean, they're living their own lives. It was like my youngest was starting his first job in New York. You know, like everybody's off doing their own thing.

They're not like in mom's house like, what's going on? So I just didn't bring it up to them. And then, yeah, on Monday with the trailer or the little poster thing with our ages under our feet, I was like, oh, look, Lauren. Like they color corrected my skirt. She's like, oh, my God, he's 27. I was like, oh, shit. Like, I forgot that was there. And then my son just texted me.

I think it was this morning or yesterday. Like, I saw the first episode and I'm really shocked at how young he is. And, you know, my response was he's a great guy. He, you know, is a lot more mature than what his age is. Obviously, you met him. You got to know him. And, you know, we're not together. So I guess you don't have to worry about that.

And I was, like, concerned that his friends were embarrassed. I'm looking back obviously I know I remember at that infamous dinner where Leah had something to say that's okay it's okay but listen like obviously it was both all your it was all your guys's journey to do whatever you want but I do think Leah you know made a point in the sense that like it's like if your kids play that much of a role and in your dating life and it makes a lot of sense wouldn't it make sense to tell them because what if they didn't accept how old John was at the time? And here you are falling in love with this guy. Wasn't that putting your relationship with John in a sticky position

by not just being up front with your kids, knowing that what they think means a great deal to you? I don't mean to cut you off. I think it's a double standard with us versus the people with kids. Because what if someone falls in love and then a year later meets the kids and the kids don't like the partner. Same thing with us. We weren't allowed to go through our journey

without her getting scrutinized for not revealing my age, but it's really the same thing. It's a big part of her life. It's a big part of a partner's life who has kids. So they get to the pass of... She has kids. No, I know, but they get the past...

The people with younger kids who didn't come to the... Yeah, they get the pass on not introducing, you know, the partner to the kids. But when she doesn't want to reveal my age, she gets shit for it. Right. And to add on to that, what I was going to say is that, you know, I totally respect, like, Andrew and Derek's choice not to introduce or whatever. 100%. However, like, I also am in that situation, regardless of the fact that my kids are, like,

maybe seven, eight years older than yours. Like, they came to the show. Obviously, you could see how nervous that was for me because I do not introduce my kids to partners casually at all. And I was forced to do that. So I had to swallow that and deal with it. And so the fact that that was a huge thing for me and then on top of it I'm supposed to say oh by the way he's two years younger than you, Richard,

like that's, that was a lot for me. I totally agree that's a lot. The question still stands. I'm just curious knowing that it does mean a lot to you what they think. Is there a world where we do throw a lot at you? Obviously it was a very weird. situation. I totally get that. But I'm just wondering when you watch it back, is there a lane where

it would have made sense just to kind of tell them? No. If they didn't accept them. What would have happened if they didn't accept them? So the reason why, let me give you my train of thought. So again, to go back to, I met John, I had no idea how old he was, really was drawn to him, had feelings, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Then I find out how old he is and I'm like, oh my God, okay, well, now I have this like inner argument with myself. If my kid, I'm, you who are in their 20s had gotten to know John and learned what a great guy he is, just like I did, and saw how strong our relationship and saw all those good things. And then they found out, and they were like, oof, I'd be like, yeah, but let's have this

intellectual argument now, does age matter? Because he's got all of these qualities, and I get it. But these are the reasons why I chose him, and I still chose him after I knew his age. I want you guys to also think about that. And that's the conversation I would have had after they got to know him. Teresa, when you met John's mom and sister, you left and they stayed and had a conversation. His sister said that you not telling them about having children was off-putting and weird. How did that feel to watch that back?

I mean, it hurt. John and I had had a conversation prior to getting together with our, you know, friends and family, and we both said that we were not going to say those things. We were not going to, you know, we, I mean, it's roll back. Like, we literally say, like, we're not going to say ages and we're not going to talk about the kids. And so it was, it was okay when I found out that he had said, like, oh, yeah, you know, she's got kids or whatever. I just didn't think it was part of the plan. So that's part of the reason why I didn't say those things, but, I mean, if I had known that we were wanting to do that, I would have done it.

Okay. Is there any love still there? Are you guys in love with each other? Is there... Any chance at rekindling? I mean, I think I will always really care about John, and I think what we had was real. But I think we've learned that, like, it's just we're not compatible. John, do you feel like age played a role in your relationship ending?

I don't. I don't think it was age. I think it was communication. I think I'll speak for myself. We all go to Jorge, and we spent so much time together during this process. He's taught me a lot that experiences matter and communication is key, as cheesy as that sounds. So I think if I might have, if I would have shown up and communicated, clearly with her, we could have talked through those things. Was it me giving up? Yeah, I think

that's, that's, you can paint that picture. I don't think it was just age that broke us up. Okay. Well, thank you for being so vulnerable and honest about y'all's relationship. Leah and Chris's 15-year age gap relationship begged the question, can you turn a boy into a man? And after a season of ups and downs, flight attendant Leah came to the realization that Chris might not be as worldly as she hoped. Leah, how did it feel knowing that you were ready to commit and he was not? For me, it was shocking because everything that he told me to my face was that he was in it. So, because it's like what you don't see is that he actually met my sister-in-law. And we had a great time.

And he talked about how into me he was and all these things about getting to know me. And then we also meet his mom the next day. And then as you see what she said, she said, you look so happy. You heard that, right? Yeah, me too. And then in two seconds, he's like, I'm so stressed. I was like, you wasn't stressed two minutes ago. Not two minutes, but yeah, I mean, it's more like 45 minutes.

You know, but you feel me, though. So it's like, once again, it's like it's just all like the facade as like some lies, you know. Because I didn't know. He had all these feelings because he didn't tell me. So watching that moment back with his mom that caught you completely off guard? Yeah. Because we were in a good place when I had walked away. Like me and his mom had a great chat.

We like, did we not? Okay, cool. I got you know. But we did. And she understood. I think her biggest concern was like I've lived alone. They're used to being around their family. I was like, I love hanging out having parties.

I was like, but does the door lock? You know what I mean? But that was like her biggest thing and about children. And I was like, I've never pressed him for a relationship, children. I just was like, we can just date. Because I don't know from him, like from what he was always telling me, it's like he was in. And he was having issues, but it never had to do with me. It was about being sleep deprived, all these filming issues.

You know what I mean? It was never like, Leah, it's you. You're the problem. You never said that to me. Because if he had, what you don't know is. my best friend lost her mom two days into Vancouver. And I found that out. So for me, it's like, I never needed him.

My girlfriend needed me. I could have bounced. If I knew, that's what he was pushing. You know what I mean? So for me, he was very selfish in that to not just tell me the truth. Because I remember I sat down with him. Like, I felt him like pulling way about like maybe a few days in because the whole sleep stuff. And I was like, hey, I sat him down the couch.

And I was like, do you like me? And he said, yes, it's not you. It's the situation. I was like, okay, then I'll ride with you. Because once I ask you once, I don't need to ask you six times. Like, do you like me? Like, you say you like me, then I'll ride with you. And I won't talk bad about you, and I will keep it.

Like, you heard me in our, we had like a meeting with the crew about some stuff. And I was like, I fought for him. I was like, he's not sleeping. He doesn't go to the jam. He doesn't get to tan. You know what I mean? But at the end of the day, it's like, that was. wasn't even my fight-to-fight.

Hi, Chris. I'm just watching it back, I am curious, you know, for those watching or listening, during filming, as you guys know, we took your phones away. We really wanted you guys to focus on your relationships. You have this limited time, so the whole part of the experiment is to really lean in. And so I'm just curious, Chris, like during this phase, why it seemed like you weren't leaning in to this experience. And last time I had a chance to talk with you,

you talked about, I think your explanation was, you wanted to give Leah a glimpse into what your life was like, but at the same time, couldn't you have just told her, hey, normally I work out, normally I tan, normally I nap. But like, why were you so reluctant to use this very limited time that you guys had to really lean in

to see what your connection was about? Yeah. So addressing that question, first, before anything, talking about my routine, that was an excuse to not sneaking out of the apartment and going and doing what the other couples were doing because, you know, it seemed like the other couples were having a great time and having fun. I'm not trying to, sorry, that's not what I was, that's not what I was saying. In other words, we're not going out of our way to spend more time with each other, which I hear you on that, right? Like, we're not going. What do you mean by that? Meaning like instead of, hey, tonight, we have kind of an off night and tomorrow we don't have much to do. Instead of let's maybe go to a bar and catch something. to eat, my choice was, let's just stay in-in-in, and maybe we watch them down on TV and cook, you know, like, and I hear you with what you're trying to say, but that was my response to that about the whole routine. That's why I was taught, that's why my response to you was, well, I guess I also told you, and this reality, like I felt like I was almost working at one point, right,

like trying to keep myself healthy and also struggling with the sleep. You remember we were talking about that. And I'm, because they casted you to be the gym guy. Yes, that's what you said. Well, and that's not right, and that's not fair for you. So I hear you on that. But I don't think that it's fair to say that I wasn't leaving. Wait, he said that they casted him to be the gym guy? I didn't remember saying that. If I did, it's not what I don't remember saying that, but I don't think that matters. It's okay.

I mean, somebody's got to do bicycle girls. They cast you to find love. It did matter. I know, but I don't remember saying that. And regardless of whether they cast me for that, obviously I'm there to find love. I hear you. Okay. So with that said, rest of the cast, do you think he was there to find love?

Go ahead. If you think he was there to find love, go ahead and raise your hands. What I will say, like honestly, also like being in that experience, like I also watching like the last finale episodes, you can clearly tell like Chris, like you honestly didn't like Leah. Like let's just keep the buck. You didn't at all. And you never expressed that to her. All the things you told your mom, you never expressed that to her face ever. And I think that was unfair.

Like Leah was literally there like so into you and literally in that experience with you. And you just, you didn't like her, but she didn't say that to her. I also think it's unfair, especially from the inside from everyone here, to say that when you saw how invested I was and you saw me on off days and you saw how, when you say I wasn't leaning into it, I was still there because I was leaning into it. We had a great time with, so obviously, you know, the edit. There was not much shown there. We get into this, what seemed a little more out of the bubble, but we're still in a bubble. And three, four days in, I was, I felt like I was over it at that point. And I was very... Over what? The whole thing, the whole experience. I was struggling with Leah. I think it was very clear how much we were struggling. I don't know. know how it's possible that anybody could say that I was like completely hiding that and showing that. I know that I wouldn't show on TV, but there's no one here that didn't see me that Sunday and said, what's wrong where it's not one person. Well, what I'm hearing from you and current me if I'm wrong is that when you talked, when she would check in with you, you would blame it on the show, production, the weirdness of it off. Let's get to that. So then the next Monday, we had a date that didn't

show was a shopping date. That's when the turn changed. This is, we moved down on Thursday into Vancouver. We had off-day Sunday. This is three days into filming in Vancouver. So we have a date. That morning, I was told you need a voice for the first time. I was struggling. I didn't want to talk negative. I didn't want to do all that. That morning, that interview was not my best interview.

I was trying through the interview. I'm really happy to show. I wasn't feeling good. We go into, instead of being able to have a great conversation, we went into a shopping day. We get there. It's a boutique that, honestly, I didn't, you know, I don't think that she was into because she was very clear about that. I'm not really, like, this isn't a place I would shop, right?

like this, which I'm glad we found something nice, but regardless. I mean, that's my life, bro. Cool. I know, I know, but that's, that's, that's, that's, and I show up, you know. Well, I mean, well, I, I definitely showed up. I definitely showed up because when I was there, we went through shopping, we went through dresses, and I was struggling at this point, and it was very clear that I was struggling.

And one of the few things she kept saying was like, well, you're living your best life out here. I'm not, we had an off day the day before. And I, we were on the pool and I spent maybe an hour and a half by myself, She was struggling with a lot. And to be honest with you, I didn't want her to feel like I'm having a good time while she's struggling, but also needed you have your space. That was the moment you were on the phone, right?

And I was in the corner in the pool. It wasn't until the last 15 minutes that Andrew sat on the floor in the pool in the corner and said, dude, like, that's when we had that conversation. Hey, I know you're struggling. Everyone sees that you're struggling. If you're going to get through this and you're going to be better for this, five minutes later, all the boys are sitting next to me. 10 minutes later, Leah walks up and she sees me having a great time laughing with the boys.

next day we're at this date and as she's trying on clothes, she's talking about how I'm living my best life and I go in there, you know, kind of throwing shade. It kind of felt like anyway, we're walking out and, you know, I was asked about, you know, who's paying for this whole thing from the outside perspective. And I was like, you know, that's my, I'm not, if I ever, ever take somebody on a date, I'm taking on a date whether it's food, whether it's shopping, because this is me. And I felt like once I voiced her head like, hey, this is me, whatever you want,

it's fine, but just so you understand, you know, we're walking out. she's grabbing these clothes and then she's like oh but we didn't even look at jewelry yet after we already after i know she's joking but after she already told me she didn't like any of this jewelry right so it's like it felt like it felt like like she was not on my side at that point it felt like no one was on my side when i'm clearly trying to lean into this at this point i'm giving i'm giving everything i have at this point did you like her did you like her not i just want to know just because you're still not saying like can i ask you this well i was did you like her dude i wouldn't have stayed there if i didn't like her okay when you were in vancouver did you have feelings for her

Of course. Of course I had feelings for what we were talking about? No, I'm just asking. Four days in, I wanted to go home. And that's the reality. But why did you want to go home? Because I didn't think it was working. I thought the age gap was too far for us.

And I thought that it was creating an unnecessary pressure. Why not just own that? Because I asked you. Chris, I love you as a friend. And I hear what you're saying about the shopping date and stuff. But everyone was out of their routine. We were tanning. We were going to the gym.

I was there. You were there. but Leah did not deserve you pretending like you liked her so that you came off as a nice guy and to be strung along. It was not fair to her. And you could see her genuine emotion and her genuine connection. And here she was believing your words,

but everybody else could see it. Those weren't your intentions. And it was really, really sad watching that back to see how much you liked him. And I think everybody was thinking the same thing. That was really sad to see and how you were just, you just wanted to come off as a nice guy. But I hear what you're saying about the shopping day.

I know that's frustrating. but we were all out of a routine. Let me just tell you why I did what I did with a shopping date. Because you literally told me maybe like a day before, remember I listened to everything you said. You literally told me you took a girl that you didn't even date and you bought her a prodig bag. Yeah, but I was.

Right. But it was $400, y'all. If I had my, I got this little, but yeah. $400. And then you bragged about how much you spent on your grocery bill. Did he not? $600. So you bragged about all this stuff.

And if you liked me, it's like, sure, whatever you want these items, we shop together, cool. That's why I was like, yeah, add the jewelry too. But you told me that you didn't like it. That's why I was hurt by it. But you saw me, I was like, this is cute. I will find something cute in this story. I hear you, but you got what I was saying there.

You said you'd even like the girl that you brought the Prada bag. That's how much Prada these days, yo? That was a conversation about another relationship. Like, it wasn't that serious. Okay. Let's, let's, let me just take a pause because everybody is kind of getting that Chris right now. John, Chris and I, we're dating older women, right?

And I think you just saw it just now with John and his struggle to find his words, even with the story he told when he was on the phone. You know, Teresa was saying you shut down. When you're dating a woman that's older and strong and powerful, she's used to living her life a certain way. And sometimes, you know, being single in the world, it's a mean world, you talk to people a certain way. And when you go back to a relationship, sometimes that doesn't always translate. And so the partner doesn't always feel like they can communicate back. So as much as, yeah, he didn't tell Leah, was he struggling because he really wanted to push to make it work? I'm sure.

But I think what's coming across right now, and Chris knows I love him. I just want Chris to speak his truth. And I think that the women are saying you weren't being truthful. But what I'm concerned with, I get it what they're saying. I understand wholeheartedly what they're saying. You weren't truthful. And I just want Chris to speak your truth. And it's okay.

Whatever your truth is. And I think if, I don't want to speak for Leah, but I think if Leah felt like whatever your truth was, she'll live with it. I did. And so I'm just saying, all I want you to do is to speak her truth. Whatever it is, I rival you. I rival with you. If you were struggling like that, I think it would have helped Leah and help you

if you would have been like, rather than saying I want to go to the gym and this production, look, I am struggling with you. This is what you're doing to affect me. And then you give her that opportunity to fix it. it and talk to you about it and y'all can grow from it if it's you know if it's meant to be so but you're not doing that too is he did voice it after after a few days could it happen faster i can get you credit but this is why but you have to realize like yeah but like i said my best friend lost her mom and that was like a mom to me i remember you had voice that you said you know i just want to be

alone at like at night i was like cool i remember i i gave you your space at night all the time right you watched TV, you did your thing, I went to bed, I left you alone. Yes, I joined you in cooking sometimes just to have that wee time. But I remember going to bed. I cried so hard. And then I felt guilty for bringing it to you while you were on the couch watching TV. So I literally remember, I didn't mean me asking, I was like, is it okay if I sit next to you or like sit near you? So I sat on the opposite side of the couch.

And I, while you watch you, I just sat there. I didn't cry. I just sat. And if that makes me overbearing or clingy, then it is what it is. But, like, in that moment, yes, I would have wanted my partner to be like, are you okay? I know you're struggling right now. You know what I mean? But instead, through this process, I'm protecting you, coddling you when I needed that.

And I'm like, you've come to me as, like, a victim a lot of the times. And at the end of the day, I'm a victim. Like, you played me. You know what I mean? And I'm like, in the real world, I would never get. get played because I have options. I didn't need you. I wanted you around. Do you know what I'm saying? And in this process, when I talked to my friend, I was like, I will come home for you because I don't need to be here. She said, me and my mom would have wanted you to do this because this could be your

chance to find someone. So that's why I stayed extra long because you kept telling me to my face that you want to do this for us. And then I would hear some little things that you would say, and it's like, it would just be like a little different. But then once you know what I mean, but this is a different world. So I was like, well, we're on TV. He's probably getting nervous with his words. But I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. And I saw, like, you know how you say, people say you date the potential of a man.

And I was, because, like, I know you're a good person. You don't mean harm, but you did harm, you know? And I just want you to just take that ownership to know. I'm bloody, I'm telling you, like, for someone to say is, like, I was clingy. And my friend needed me. I'm like her best friend, like her own, like, you know what I mean? And, like, you took that from me. I'm sorry

Looking back Do you think you were reckless with Leah's feelings? Yeah And in that pool That pool day that we had Everyone I think I remember Andrew coming over He said, are you okay? And I said, I'll be fine

But I give me some time And I don't even think you even checked on me That's why I said, you're out here living your best life Because I was literally on that thing struggling But I hear you I mean you know how much I was feeling for that Because you know me with what I did just dealt with two years ago. You know how much I was going for that. And I'm sorry that's how you

that's how you feel. I'm so sorry. You made sure everyone around you was good and happy, except for the person who was living with you. Leah, did Chris know that you were going to say yes at the final ceremony? No. I ended up changing my mind. So I was going to say no. And then I wanted to, after dinner, we had a great conversation. I remember like, mind you, we had the mom, my sister-in-law that all had great, great endings. And I was like, okay, he understands where I'm coming from. He finally gets what I'm trying to tell him. And he's like, literally, you know, it's like, you made me a better man.

I was like, I'm not trying to make you a better man for the next person. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to, like, I just, I see you. I get what a good person you can be. And that's what I'm saying. Like, when you're on, you're on. But you, like, live in your head and it just turns and spins. You're thinking about so much far in advance, which is beautiful.

But, like, you just have to live in the present. What did you think Chris was going to say at the commitment ceremony? I knew he was going to say no. I felt that the day he left, I felt like our goodbye. It wasn't like a normal goodbye that you would be like, all the other couples were like, oh my God, I don't miss you so much. He was like, I was racing to get out. And I was like, dang, you know, I get you stressed and all, but, woo,

you know what? That's why when I was like, you're going to miss me. I was like, now I'm just messing with you because I know you're not going to miss me. You can't wait. You're running out the door, you know. Chris, last time we had you on the show, you caught me off guard, because you kind of kept referencing this desire of being on reality TV. You had mentioned, I forgot how you said it, but you talked about...

I think he was 18. You thought you were ready for reality television, and then here you are at 27. You know, like, I'm not ready, right? Yeah, I wasn't sure what you said, but it really caught me off guard because I just, you were just talking about this desire about specifically going on reality TV, which, you know, is not a crime, but obviously, given this, show and given like how real it is for people and what they sacrifice showing up, I'm just wondering, did your desire to be on reality TV supersede your consideration for these feelings?

And when you talk about desire to be on reality TV, I was talking about full circle. I was 17 years old. I thought I was going to be on Survivor. I dropped out of school because I was going to thought I was going to be on the show. Never went on, but six months later, started charity with my friend that was on the show, whatever. We started traveling and, and I wouldn't have dropped out of school if that didn't happen. I would have started the business that I started. I started working out after a surgery because I thought I was going to be on Survivor as a 17-year-old. Started my fitness journey.

That was season, I think, 32. Now it's season 50, and they're doing the celebration for the same person from the show that cast me. So I just was referencing how I thought that was full circle. I was referencing how I thought I was so ready back then. But going into this show, I didn't feel ready, right? It almost felt scary. Okay. And as far as sacrificing what went into it, I was, those three days, those four days, all I was thinking was, I wanted to make sure that when I left this, I wouldn't, especially her family, because I hadn't met them yet, you know, that we would both be able to watch this and be proud of what we watched and how we treated each other.

Okay. So before I say anything else, I am going to take ownership to that and what you just talked about. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I'm sorry if that playing with your emotions, all of this, right? like this is not what the intention was, but a few days into Vancouver, because I think it was very clear what we had in Whistler, and I thought that was really cool, and it changed a little bit. I was, I wanted to go home. It didn't matter the money. It didn't matter the time. It didn't matter the screen. What money? You know, whatever, whatever it is, you're getting paid to be on TV or you're

doing this and that, that didn't matter anymore. I don't, guys, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just asking you question. It doesn't matter what I'm I said, it doesn't matter what we're out here for. I'm here. I don't want to be here anymore, and I'm, and I'm struggling with this. And I think, I'm just, I'm just you're the next morning was the most difficult day for us, which was that shopping day and afterwards. Well, I do want to clear up for anyone listening or watching. No one here got paid except for us. And people truly showed up sincere wanting to meet real connections and real people and see what they had in common. Quick question. Sure. I have to get this off my chest. This is something that I heard when we were filming.

and I just want to ask if anybody else had heard this, but, and sorry, Chris, but at our mixer, the first mixer, right after we got back from our wine date. Yeah. There was talk that you had approached a couple, maybe just one other lady, I don't even know who it was, and said something to the effect of, hey, do you want to, like, make a pact to be together so that we can get to the end. Was that true? Did anybody else hear that?

Yes, we heard it. Oh, you did? Yes, absolutely. So I'm that crazy. Correct. I was approached myself with that. And I'm not going to say who it was, but I was approached myself with that.

And if you want to talk about PACT, the only thing I would ever speak about when it comes to that was my being uncomfortable with sleeping with somebody and talking about my celibacy, which wasn't shown. That's why me and Leah were so comfortable. That's why we talked about how moving in. have some boundaries well going all the way from several years ago and that's not a joke so you're no longer anymore uh right now i'm not no were you guys tell of it so we did not have sex okay

but we didn't mess around once okay it's not oral not big deal but that's he digress but yes he i've heard that alliance thing and i mean i'm not trying to like if you want to if there's a word packed to you no i hear you is there anyone else wants to speak on on this thing that teresa Can we get a definition of celibacy? I need to know what. First of all, celibacy and abstinence are two different things. Celibacy is a lifestyle like a nun or a priest. It means I'm never going to go there and not going to be romantic.

I'm not going to do anything. Abstinence is for a set period of time, like you're saying, well, for religious reasons or for my own clarity, I'm not having sex until this set period of time or this event. So like with Vanilla, she was saying she's abstinent. So there's the difference, it's often confused, but celibacy is a nun or priest. That's not what we're dealing with here. Absentice is what we're dealing with on here.

And you could be absented for a damn day. You could be absent for, you know, a reason. As you all know, all the men we have a close relationship, and I've talked to Chris, and he even said when we were in Vancouver to me, y'all, I'm struggling. I assume that's something that between them and they talk. Just like I assume any of our relationships, it's funny that the ones that have broken down, it's communication. And it's not ages communication.

And the ones that are succeeding, they're seemingly able to communicate. Now, I do feel, I mean, I think Teresa and John, look, they loved on each other. I think everybody loved on each other. I do think that Leah deserved, you know, that. And I do think that the best of Chris would do that. For whatever reason that he checked out,

the one person that you owed to tell I'm checking out is to her. But this is a life thing, man. We all make mistakes. So I always still give Chris Grace. But I guess it's a learning experience. I mean, this is the ride or die. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, my first protection was Vanello,

just like his was with Trees and his was with Livy and with Fifer and with Vanessa. I think all the women kind of sense that, yo, they had men that were in it with them. I think Leah thinks you ghosted. And I just think it's a learning moment. It's all. Yeah, that's fair. We do have to move on and we want to get to our happy couple. Well, we do have one more big announcement to make that, Chris, you will be on next season

of perfect match. Do you hope to find your love there? Yeah, that's the plan. That's the plan. I mess this one up a little bit. I'm still grateful, and Leah, to close that, I thank you for where we're at. Thank you for speaking your truth and hearing me, and I'm sorry for where we're at and how long it took to get here.

But, yeah, that's the idea. And I'm going in with the same mindset. I'm going to try to be myself. I'm going to try to be open, try to talk to, you know, as many people I can authentically. And if I find love, what a blessing I would be. Can we expect a different, Chris? I hope so. I hope you see a more authentic Chris.

I hope you see more of me and more of my character for sure. Okay. All right. I am myself. And on this show, I've been myself. I was struggling with speaking my thoughts. And I hope that you see a better communicative Chris on the next one. Okay.

For Vanessa and Logan's 20-year age difference, They found love as hot and passionate as the 4th of July, even if it took a little while to ignite. And as we always say here at the Vile Files, all you need is love, some pink lipstick, and a confusing, fake-out proposal. That proposal was one for the ages. It was. It was. It really was. I mean, you've been engaged four times. That was the best one. That's the winner. He's the winner. He can't feed that one.

In your previous four proposals, and no shake, because I had a few engagements before I met my will-love. wife. But in your previous proposals, did you ever say, my friends were right about you? Yeah. I should have trusted my guy. Yeah. Yeah, no, I did not say that. Okay. Okay, have we set a wedding date? What is engagement looking like for you too? No, we haven't set a wedding date. We're planning to move in first, and our bogey's next fall. So either she comes to Dallas or I go to Ohio. I've looked at jobs in Ohio or we start somewhere new. So that's kind of our bogey. Well, I mean, again, I think, you know, watching it back, a lot of people didn't believe in you guys. Did you guys break up during filming ever? Was that, was that, you know, we had a little, we had a little bump in the road. Okay.

Yeah. A little bit about my history. I would go on like three dates with a guy and one of like, one little thing would go wrong and I would run away and I did that with Chris, you know, when I was talking to Chris. I was like, yep, that's it. I'm out of here. And then I caught myself doing that with Logan over the whole optics thing, you know, like I was ready to shut down. And I had to come to Jesus moment where I was like, this is what you always do. You shut down. You push someone away. And we had a good conversation. And I was like, okay, you know, there's a good guy behind here. I'm not going to run away. I'm going to push past my limitations. Okay. Well, again, you guys, you know, you're here today. You're engaged. How have you been able to make this relationship work? It's constant communication, constant understanding and compromise on both sides. I'm not gonna lie and sit here and pretend like it's all been roses and butterflies because it hasn't.

I mean, you know, we're in a distance relationship and it's been tough. And what you see on the show, you know, you see a lot of turmoil, a lot of up and down, but that's, it's translated into real life. but at the end of the day, we've always come back and met each other and strengthened our relationship. I mean, we have gone through a lot of shit in the past nine months. When I say a lot of shit, she had her best friend died in August. Her closest aunt died right before January 1st. My dad lost his leg a month back from filming. I tore my Achilles three months from being back in Vancouver.

I got surgery a month later. and then I retort again last month. So, you know, we're facing all these hardships, but somehow we've managed to stay together. And, you know, it's really, it's been awesome. Do you feel like you've both been able to really show up and be a team in those difficult moments? You know, I've been sitting here.

I've been listening to, you know, I'm older. These ladies were older. These guys were younger. You know, he's shutting down. He's not able to talk. He shut down. He wasn't able to talk. Does that happen with Logan's sometimes?

Yes. but he's always able to pull himself back up after the bootstraps. I mean, he crashes out, I crash out, we both crash out. But at the end of the day, like, we always come back to each other, you know, and it takes a lot of maturity on his part. It takes a lot of patience on my part, you know, and patience on his part too, you know. But he's always showing up for me and I'm showing up for him. I've been actually thinking about this a lot as I just reflect on my life and things like

that, but they always say, like, who you marry is a really important decision. It will change your life forever. And I look back and, like, where I was, before I met Natalie, and just in every measurable and meaningful way, I have so much more in my life. I'm curious, since you've been with Vanessa, how has she changed your life for the better? She's helped me approach things in a way that I knew certain areas of my life weren't going to be the same forever. Like, constantly going out with my friends

on the weekends and just looking for the fun thing to do. You know, I know that's, you know, how you live your life in your early 20s isn't necessary. Like, that's a short era. And, you know, since being with Vanessa, she's pulled me in a direction

that I always knew was there for me. But I wasn't necessarily. following that road. And since being with Vanessa, I've started thinking more of what's down the line. What do I want more for myself? Do I want, you know, am I doing some things short term or doing them long term? So she's helped elevate me in ways that, you know, I've wanted to do myself, but I haven't been able to. The conversation of children was brought up when you met your parents. Your mom was very much vocal about how much she wanted her grandkids. Has that been a topic of discussion since you've been out of the bubble?

Yeah. Well, we already got Gypsy Rose. That's my little shit, too. That's okay. She has black hair. She looks just like her dad. Yeah. Yeah. No, and we get a lot of practice. We try every time we see each other. It's all that Fourth of July. Yeah, right, right. Fourth of July, yeah. A couple million minutes multiple times. How did you feel about the world hearing that moment? We know.

Baby, let him know. I know. It was the first time. First of all, I haven't been with anyone in a year. I don't know how long it's been for him, so it's been a long time. Tell him how it is now. Obviously, it's amazing now. Obviously, it's amazing.

Well, the truth is, you know, there's a tight window between, come on, versus, like, you know. Yeah, no, it had honestly been a while. And I'm not, you know, I was just trying to... You're super into your woman, you know? Yeah, I was, I was ready to go. And, man, when I saw that, I almost threw up. I started yacking. I was like, I had to pause it.

The other day, this was Wednesday. And I, like, ran to the bathroom and I stood over the toilet, and I was like... Should have paused. And I had to catch myself. Yeah. I just say, that's how I do it. Yeah, that's how I said it at that.

No one else. While they said, no, they're not going to play anything. It's just for, you know, safety. It's safety. The safety. You got a mic the size of the little, though, dude. It's like, what do you believe that? Yeah.

Yeah, whatever. He's made up for it. He's made up for it. We're moving past. I think you just got to own it, man. Oh, yeah. No, I don't care. This shit's fire.

Why do you think I put a ring on it? Yeah. There you know. I didn't get five rings for nothing. I don't know. Is this the same ring that he gave you? Yes, this is my ring. Okay.

Yeah, we've had a little. I wasn't able to wear it. So anyone who's seen me in the last nine months, it was because we had to keep everything quiet for the show. So obviously we can't wedding plan. I mean, obviously, we've had all the things that we've been through. B, how do we plan a wedding when we can't even tell people about it? And now, you know, things are out in the open

and we can start to move forward and get things set up for the future. You know, Logan, you've got to close this thing, you know, more engagements. We can't. I know, right? I know. We got to follow through. Right. Okay.

Absolutely. In all seriousness, I am curious, during filming, you had opened up to Vanessa about feeling like she kind of talked down to you every once in a while. And maybe that came from a place of just lived experiences. But that is obviously something that I think couples in age difference relationships, whether they mean it or not, like, have to kind of find that balance. like where one person might feel like, hey, I'm just like talking about my experience while the other person feels like you're being a little condescending. How have you guys been able to

figure out that balance? Like I said before, you know, it's the constant communication. And Jorge kind of touched on this a little bit earlier about how sometimes if you're not presenting things in a right way and you're getting feedback, then you've got to take a step back and pivot and figure out a way to really, really be understood with your partner. And I will say this, at dinner, they didn't show it, Nick, but at the dinner with, you know, the infamous dinner with Theresa Sinclair, you asked me a question about a power dynamic at that dinner. It was a really good question. And Vanessa, Vanessa, we had talked about it after because she felt some type of way about it. You know, she was like, damn it, Nick Vile. And we were cracking up about it. But it was really good because that, hell, it was one of the things that helped me kind of show to her what, basically, I don't want to say, plead my case, but some of the influences that helped shape us. And, you know, because it's not always, I can't do everything myself. I sometimes I feel a certain way when she says things and I need other people to talk to Derek about, hey, what, what am I seeing here and what am I missing?

And other people to help guide you when, you know, sometimes you're, it's just you and the other person all the time and you can't communicate perfectly all the time. So, yeah, That helps. Can I just say, you know, what's funny is Logan snuck up to my room when we're in Vancouver because he was going through a moment, right? And, you know, what's funny is we all make joke, would joke him like, y'all, he's like, he and Vanessa, they ain't going to make, oh, he's a last-minute shot. And they have withstood the test of time.

And I think a large part of it, I even think Vanessa touched on it. I'm amazed at the emotional maturity that he has shown. I mean, and he's going through it, but he stayed the course. his communication has been phenomenal. So, I mean, I think that, I think they're dope. I'm going to be at their wedding. You are. We're going to let you officiate.

Amen. Wow. Yeah. And the thing is, like, I'm super OCD and he's ADD. So it's like, you know, you put those letters together and it's a weird off about suit, man. And Derek knows he lives my life. I show up on time everywhere. And it's just, and it's hard.

And then sometimes it feels like I'm being bossy to him because I want him to hurry up and get ready or whatever. And he was on time today, though. He did really well today. I'm very proud of him. But it just makes me difficult. He was late. No, that was not. It was only 10 minutes.

That's early. Logan, how did it feel, obviously, Vanessa talked about, you know, she had this connection with Chris for a moment. Chris is your boy. How did it feel watching that scene back? Oh, he got awful. I wanted to punch him in the face. And then when she reposted it on Instagram story, I was like, babe, come on.

And then he reposted it. I was like, if you guys, if I see this picture one more time, I'm going to crash out. And it's been 48 hours. That's what they sent me. That was what the marketing said me. We've got a thousand pictures. That's the one you put me. Right.

Right. I'm like, guys, can we please? I love you. I love you. That's just that picture. You can market the show without that picture. But you posted a picture and you guys kissing? When I see her white fingernails like grabbing his face, I'm like, damn, dude, I'm about to, mm-hmm.

Because that's my woman. Because that's my last about the show. Like, we're all talking about the scene. It's not so great scene. I'm like, yo, you're okay? How you feel? He's like, no, bro, that shit suck, dude. Seeing my woman kiss another man.

I'm like, not even, I was like, oh, sorry. Hey, I didn't even ask you for it. Right, right, right. Hey, sometimes you got to kiss a frog before you found a prince. I'm your frog, dude. I'm your frog, bro. Let me go back the way. No, I'm your dog.

We all would look around. Vanessa, what do you hope people learn from watching you and Logan fall on? love. So for me, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, you know, older men have been dating younger women since the beginning of time. But older women dating a younger man is like still frowned upon in society. So like I'm hoping that people can see this and feel like this is okay. And we don't have to be ashamed of it. And that women could be, you know, have all of it together and be with somebody younger. And it doesn't diminish your value or the person you're with's value. I watched the whole thing yesterday.

And at the end, everybody was talking about like the age difference and the age difference, the age difference, the age difference. And honestly, the whole time I was there, the age thing just went right over my head. And I was like, was I supposed to be thinking more about this age distance thing? Because I wasn't, I was just like living in the moment with this person with this soul that I never like really thought about it, you know? And we got home and I still never really thought about it. And then yesterday, watching the episodes, I'm like, oh, I think. I think I missed something here. But I'm almost kind of glad that I was, like, oblivious to it because it allowed me to put my guard down and not let outside influence affect me. And since I've been home, I mean, I had a 50th birthday party. I had 150 people there. He met everyone. Not one person was like, he's too young for you.

They loved him. They thought he was the matriety of the place. If age was a factor, then we wouldn't have all the connections that we had. Exactly. I mean, the fact is, if age is a fact, it's funny to me because then all of us would have been like, oh, no, just in talking because it just doesn't work. But we dispelled that myth easily because people make connections and really lasting connections, I mean, and deep connections. And so then it became just relational issues. Relation has nothing to do it.

So that's why all these people out there are making their comments. I'm like, you're lonely. Why don't you go find somebody, okay? You're a home in the computer by yourself. Right, right. Well, Vanessa and Logan, we obviously are just so happy that the two of you are still here together, putting in the work. It is really beautiful to see. Let us know when y'all sit a day. Yeah. Wait, why can't we a fish you guys? Yeah, you should. Maybe we should do that.

I'm just got a list. All right, we'll put you as one of the books. I'm no P-K. You know, I'm no P-K. No, but you're good, though. We'll be the party planner. He knows what's up. All right, well, before we send you all on your way, does anyone have any final thoughts or things they want to share? I do. I'm very, very grateful for this experiment. I was single for about four years before I went into this. I was abstinent for about a year before I went into it. And I was moving forward that I didn't want to do that until I found somebody I really loved and I wanted to be with.

And, you know, I don't know. I said this on the show, but my mom had cancer. She was sick for two years. and she passed like kind of before the show. And this just really saved me. And I don't want to cry. I'm not a crier. But this just really saved me.

And Logan saved me. And I prayed for an angel every day. And he was here he is. Your mom would be so proud. She would love him. You've been true to yourself. You've been so strong, so brave throughout the whole process. So he would be very proud.

I think thanks to age of attraction. Because age of attraction, what it gave us, was so much more than just even our own connections. And the connections we made, men, women, I think it's like the gift that keeps on giving, and it dispelled myths that I always believed in. So I think the age of attraction was an amazing experience.

It wasn't traded for the world. And I wanted to give a shout out to Logan. We live in the same building in Dallas. And it was not really seen on the show, but I had my question marks about them, but I've seen him grow so much, and he'll come knock on my door with a bottle of wine. I don't need to talk to you.

And I think that takes a lot, man, to say, you know what? I don't understand this part about, you know, the relationship. Can you help me as a big brother? So I've seen him grow through that process. And I'm proud of me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Grateful for you.

Yeah. Anyone else before we wrap? Okay. Okay. Well, I just want to thank all of you for your vulnerability, showing up. Obviously, this show means a great deal to us, and what this show's about means even more. You know, age obviously can play a role in relationships and compatibility and certainly

can play a role in how we communicate or how we don't communicate. But that's what I love so much about this show. It's more about our compatibility and how we work through some of these issues and acknowledging that sometimes age does play a role when it comes to love. And are we going to allow it to be the end of our relationship or something we work through? So to me, this show is more about understanding how we work through our challenges and our relationships. And I just want to thank you all for being so vulnerable and open. Thank you.

Thank you guys. And you will always be in a lot to us. We certainly hope for many more seasons, but you guys will always be number one in our hearts. Better to say that in five years. Well, I think that just about does it for the Age of Attraction, Season 1 reunion. Thank you so much to the entire cast, our team, and Netflix for giving us the opportunity to do this. It's been so much fun.

And always remember, age is sometimes just a number. And sometimes it's not. But that's love for you. Thank you, everybody. Bye. That was great. Good job, guys.

And that's a wrap.