The Viall Files - E1103 - West Wilscam and Scamanda Deep Dive + AOA Reunion with Carlos King and Dylan Nalbandian

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  This is a very important and very special episode because the rumors are true… Amanda Batula and West Wilson are officially confirmed. From the joint statement to Ciara Miller's reaction, to how long have they been together, we're getting into all of it. To help break it down, we're joined by the reality king himself, Carlos King, who gives us insight into the producer side of the Bravosphere, along with Bravo fan Dylan Nalbandian, who shares his takes. We recap the Age of Attraction reunion, dive into all the John and Theresa drama, and share some behind-the-scenes moments from filming you won't hear anywhere else. Tune in to this jam-packed episode… this one is juicy. "And they shared a Remi Wolf sweatshirt." The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 4th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: American Home Shield - Listeners can get 20% off select plans today! Just visit https://ahs.com/viallfiles to sign up. See https://ahs.com/contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions.  Mint Mobile - If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at https://mintmobile.com/viall  The RealReal - The RealReal is the most trusted name in authenticated luxury resale, With over ten thousand new arrivals daily, no one does resale like The RealReal. And now, get $25 OFF off your first purchase when you go to https://therealreal.com/files  Chime - Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to https://Chime.com/viall  Rosetta Stone - Ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit https://rosettastone.com/viall today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:36 - Dylan Joins 16:58 - Carlos Joins 1:16:38 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @thecarlosking_ @dylan.nalbandian @susiecevans @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @izeweaver 

going on everybody welcome back to another unbelievably like just jam-packed crazy episode we don't let's it's going to be crazy it's gonna be crazy uh skimanda i don't know if we've landed on a name i don't like it we're workshop we're gonna be workshopping it but so much to get into it's gonna be a high energy episode this episode dozie is uh back with the household she brought a very special friend dylan now bandy and with her i know many of you already know dylan uh he's got a lot of great content uh floating around on the internet and he's got some great takes he's bringing into the studio with him today. Mary's also with us. Also, I believe Carlos King is going to be joining us momentarily. You all know Carlos as a former Real Housewives producer and podcaster friend of show. And we, you know,

we all just have a lot to say about the Amanda in West drama. In West, yeah. We also have the age of attraction reunion that premiered last night and we appreciate you all supporting and watching lots to get into so we'll talk a little age of attraction reunion i mostly just want to focus on trisa and john obviously if the the rest of the household wants to break anything down but we'll be talking about that but this is going to be full on scimanda outside of the age of retraction reunion we're going to give you exactly what you want what you need there's just so many layers to this i don't even know my brain is scrambled eggs right now it's just It's crazy.

River was like walking on water yesterday. And I was like, Nick, watch River. And he was like, I can. I'm on Twitter. There's so many new things coming out. Nick was on Twitter. He was busy. He goes, I'm working.

I'm like, please shut up. I am working. I was just like, you know, what can I say? I've carved out a nice little life for myself. No, you have. It's honestly the best kind of work, especially when it doesn't involve you. Right.

Exactly. Oh my God, it's truly the best. Well, before we get rocking and rolling in all this contest, a couple reminders. Don't forget the Valfouse Pluses, again, ad free. So if you want to listen to all your favorite Vial Files episodes without any ads, you can do that now on Vowals Plus. Additionally, we have a reality recap deep dyes where we dive deep into all your reality TV drama. We'll obviously give you some BTS on the Age of Attraction reunion. Obviously, the Weston, Amanda, and all of that. like we'll get into the weeds you know we'll get into the theories uh obviously we will do it here but if you are thirsting for even more you know where to find it and that is on vile files plus so go to

vialfiles.com to sign up all right before we jump into age of attraction reunion i will say like monday was crazy because as as susy in and mary know like when we were talking about west and Amanda we ended up like i think everyone just like thought it was a joke you know today's we're recording this literally on april fools Like today is April Fool. So then there was a lot of like, this is going to be an April Fool's joke. And it just seemed so unbelievable. I think especially because everyone like KJ and Carl and Lindsay, like all of these people were posting just like memes of themselves, which was giving very much trolling.

It was like, we're trolling the fans. You had Wes liking some stuff that seemingly confirmed that this was going on and you thought there's no way. Yeah. He's just going to be out there. He's going to be that bold. This messy in the comments breaking it this way. But then after we got done recording, I got a couple calls. And I got a couple calls.

And I was like, I found out Monday afternoon that it was real. Yeah. I've heard from a source too that it is also. I knew, like, I heard that there was going to be a statement coming. So then we just took, we honest, because like our take mostly was this like, if this is fake, that's kind of like, this is not a funny joke. like you're activating fans in a way that's like going to be upsetting like if this is a joke this is a really bad joke and had to wait for the uh the big announcement the they they did a joint announcement for seemingly a situation ship oh my god i know that is crazy so funny the joint yeah the joint situation the joint connection announcement as i believe vanita vanita called it i started following west and amanda yesterday just waiting because i knew it was coming. Well, that was nice of you

because most people have been unfollowing them. So like you fix the curve. I don't know what I'm going to do after this. Yeah. I need to know when it was going to come in. You're locked in for the drama now. All right. Well, we have so much to break down when it comes the Amanda and West. But before we do, let's talk

a little age of attraction reunion. Well, we are very excited announced that we found out yesterday. We are getting a season two. So, yay. We're getting. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations.

So exciting. Maybe that reunion will be on Netflix. A lot of questions about why this one is not. Things above. Listen, it was a first season show. We only got eight episodes. Hoping for more episodes. Second season.

You know. But we are very grateful for the Netflix team to allow us to produce host and deliver you the reunion. And certainly glad that you all enjoyed it. I want to talk about Teresa and John for a minute because I think that was like, you know, I think our favorite couple

throughout the show. I think that was the couple. I certainly was most interested in finding out kind of where are they now. I'm so curious. For those of, you know, so like, they seem to be somewhat on good terms, but like, you know, going into the reunion, you could, like, the cast is overall pretty close. And John is part of the close knit of the cast. And, you know, Teresa, I think is, you know, a mom living her best life. I don't think she is as interested in the, you know, you know, the camaraderie that it comes with like, we just did a reality TV show. She works in fashion. She's busy.

She's like, you know. And I think with other people, there's like a kind of a summer, you know, it's a summer camp vibe, whatever. You know, a lot of part of the reunion was like, you know, did age play a role in your relationship not working? And it was, to me, it was always interesting to hear like, none of the younger guys were like, oh, no, like, of course, no. It's just like our communication.

You know, it was like it wasn't, it wasn't the fact that I was a lot younger. But I was like, I think the fact that you are a bad communicator is maybe you being this young is part of the reason. Like it's like they never wanted to acknowledge maybe their immaturity in it. Because like, you know, if you watch the reunion, they reference like this voice note, right? Or Teresa was like, I don't give a shit, talk about it. And John came in very much trying to like paint a, like he had all of the cast kind of rallying behind him. To my understanding, everyone's heard this voice memo that Teresa apparently said in John. And it sounds like she was mad.

And I think she came in real hot. And I think maybe she lost her shit. And I don't even think Teresa denied any of that, right? I don't know exactly what was on it. But I think the rest of the cast heard it and they were all like, that shit was crazy. But my interpretation is, is this like, bro, like you played with fucking fire and you got burnt. You know, and that's what I was trying to talk about when we were, you know, I think two, two things can be true.

We'll get into it with us and Amanda, especially when it comes to reality TV. Most people who join these shows, they want to go on TV. You know what I'm saying? Are they open to finding connections? Of course. Some people are more genuine than others. I think John and Teresa had a legitimate connection. I think there was real feelings there.

I also think John initially came on for the cloud, right? And then I think he dated Teresa and he fell in love in this bubble and he was a supportive boyfriend and he showed up for her and he calmed her down when she got activated a little bit in this world. And as Teresa pointed out when they got out of this world, it's like he was a different person. And then she got made to feel like she was older by some people. And John's like, we only, like age is only going to be a thing if we allow it to. saying like I felt like I reassured her enough in Vancouver. And it's like, no, that. That's like your second week of dating.

Also, it's still in that bubble. Like, you're not even in the real, the real world is what she's been so anxious about. Like, that is where you need to step up and be like, hey, don't worry, my sister's not clowning you. I promise. Like, yeah. Yeah.

But it sounds like he completely shut down and was like, use that as an excuse and use Teresa's freak out as a justification to like end the relationship. And it's like she warned you. She warned you that this is going to be scary for her. She warned you that she has had bad relationships. She trusted you that you could handle the required maturity that came with dating someone in the season of life that she is in. and he ended up just being a 27-year-old guy. Well, I was going to say, I don't mean, I don't want to put a blank statement on somebody and be like,

you're manipulative or whatever. But I do think when somebody has the emotional intelligence to understand how television works a little bit, hearing what happened afterwards, it's like he played his card so well on camera. He's showing up for her. He's reassuring. He's validating. Like, watching it back, I was, I thought he was very kind and very reassuring. but a part of me was like, you're doing all this on camera.

And then watching the reunion to find out that he literally ghosted her. I'm like, that is the complete opposite of who you showed us on TV. And I feel like it's not even just age. To me, I'm like, that's a manipulative person. You're putting it on for the camera. And then you ghost this person. I will never forget because I was in here at the producer desk during the reunion. And when you were trying to get John to, like, when he just, like, couldn't speak, he went mute.

He just, like, he went mute. And he was like, I, like, the gag that I suppressed. Because it's just, like, say it. We took a break right before we got to Teresa and John. Right before we started, John, like, John was, like, right to my left. And he was like, oh, I'm just like, I don't know. I'm just not feeling well. I'm like, oh shit, are you sick?

He's like, no, it's just like a really heavy day. And like I personally felt like he was trying to garner favoritism and sympathy from me, knowing that we were about to like get into it. And I'm like, so you're not sick, you know, like, but he was kind of pretending to be a little sick. And it kind of felt a little, again, I, you know, I don't think anyone needs to be vilified on this cast. What I liked about the reunion is like they spoke their piece.

They confronted each other about like some of the ways they felt like, you know, mistreated. But it didn't end in a way that was like, no one needs to be demonized. But I do feel like, yeah, like it seemed like John did the classic thing that guys do where like they don't show up or they push or they know how to activate their partner. Their partner gets activated and then they use how they respond as a way is a justification for like, Oh, like, well, if you're, if you're going to just freak out like that, I'm just like, oh, my God, I told you. Yeah. Right.

I told you that age wasn't going to be a number of if you didn't let it and you are letting it. So I guess we should break up because, like, you deserve to be happy and I clearly can't make you happy. And like, what am I? It's just like, it's, yeah, manipulative. Yeah. It's like, you could try to make me happy if you wanted to. Yeah. Yeah.

It's actually like not that hard. Yeah. And at the end of the day, manipulative, whatever, but like, it's very much giving, yeah, you are. every bit of the 27-year-old man that you are. And maybe in some areas in life, you are mature for your age. Like when John kept talking about he's anxiously attached and he said anxiously attached three times in less than 90 seconds, I was like, okay. But then also I was like, well, were you anxiously attached once you all left the retreat?

Or was that only something that you experienced in the retreat? Because if you were outside, then like maybe you're. all wouldn't have had some of these issues. He's saying, like, how can you be anxiously attached to someone, but also be like, sorry, I'm just, like, not really a texter. I just, like, don't really, like, to text, and I'm busy. I don't talk on the phone a lot. Yeah.

He probably has gotten TikToks that said he's an anxious avoidant, and I think he's really leaned into that. Yeah. All the age gap couples, I think, it was like if the girl was older, we ran into communication issues, as it was called. But if the girl was younger, it worked out like a little bit better. I mean, not everybody, but I think in general, like there is, in general, in society, age gap couples, you tend to see like the guys older, the girls younger.

And I love that in the show, you saw a lot of women date younger men, but I was kind of watching, and then in the reunion, I'm like, this is why it doesn't work. And even Teresa and John coming back in and having such a positive relationship with each other, I was like, the only reason this is positive is because Teresa is so mature that she's able to come in here and put the BS aside and be like, you're a great person. I'm not going to berate you and talk down to you. Like, I respect you and I loved you. But like, that's only because she's mature. That's a great point, Susie.

Like, yeah, it's only because of Teresa's maturity that allows them to be civil. Because I think Teresa has, Teresa honestly, I think every right to be like, you played me. Fuck that guy. Get fuck. Yeah. Yeah. What also speaks to, I think, of how you guys said she doesn't really care so much about the TV of it all. Yeah. She's just operating how she would like normally instead of amping it up to for television. The show. Yeah. Yeah. Teresa, I love her. I told her that when like she, like meeting her, that light she has on TV. Yeah. It was just like when I met her, I was like, you just have. Yeah. She just is, I don't know. I felt very inspired by seeing her like on TV. and stuff of just like, you know, it seemed like she went on that show really to do something for herself.

Yeah, yeah. And I just like really, really loved that. Yeah. I just didn't like that John clearly had showed a bunch of people this voice note as a way to garner favor with the cast. And I think he did. But I think they're all discounting like the, like he, yeah. For the record, like every, every interaction we've had with John has been great.

He's a fine guy. But I do think you need to point out that. like if you are going to go on this show and you're going to lean in, you don't get to just be like, oops, we could have communicated better. I was like, yo, okay, fine, you're anxiously attached. How are you going to work on that so that that doesn't show up in previous, next relationship? And he's like, well, I'm just going to communicate better. It's like, it was just kind of giving platitudes in cliches. And like, you know, like, we are protective of the show in the sense that, like, you don't want people coming on and being disingenuous. And I think there was a little,

There was a little bit of that. I mean, you know, and the reason I want to talk about is because, like, you know, it's like when you're hosting the reunion, like, I just want to get, we just wanted to give people a chance to speak their peace. It really wasn't the time to, like, debate with them, you know, certainly ask them follow-up questions. But I think everyone else, I mean, and then Chris, Chris is word salad. That's my guy, Chris. What a goof. He's so funny. I love him. Leah was very, very, very, very gracious to him. Yeah. Yeah, Leah, Leah deserves every single award in the world for being as cool as she is with Chris.

Yes. Like, I don't know how she does it. She's amazing. She's incredible. I am blown away by her. Well, if you haven't seen it yet, be sure to go watch it. It's available now on YouTube. I think you'll really enjoy it and we'll continue.

If you have any thoughts, opinions, please share it with us in the comments. And maybe we'll continue to break it down next week as more and more of you. consume the age of attraction reunion. All right. I think Carlos King is here. So let's bring him in and let's really get into the Amanda and West of it all. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

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CAHS.com slash contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations, and exclusions. Carlos, welcome to the show. We're really, really excited to have you join us to talk about, are we officially calling it Scamanda?

No, it has to start with West. What are you calling her? Well, they're calling the whole thing. The streets are calling it Scamanda. The scandal. Yeah. The scandal. Which already exists.

I feel like we need something new because Scamanda's already a scandal in itself outside of this. People are calling it a mandeval. A man, oh. I don't like that because it has nothing to do with Tom Sandival. It's just a similar situation, I guess. It's like, it's not like everything was Watergate, but once you have something gate, it's like, that's perfect. But actually, one of our editors, Jack and I put together a top 10 list, David Letterman style of things we think this should be called. If you guys want to hear it.

Run through them. I do. So shady. All right. Which for the record, just want to say, like, love Sierra down. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

I ride for that girl always. We're team Sierra. Team Sierra. But anyway, these are our top ten names for the scandal. Number 10, we have scamandoval. Number nine, amandavall. Number eight, scammeram of all. Number seven, scamanda Batula.

Number six, West will scam. Number five. Scumandal Wilson Number four Scammer House Number three Kyle got cooked Number two

West Will son of a bitch This is a scandal And number one Someone get Sierra a gun I like number I like two I think I like scammer house the best

Scammer house is good I agree that Dylan The Deval is kind of irrelevant With It's not Yeah it is It's Tom Coding

It feels so good to say though It kind of flows off the tongue well, but it just doesn't happen. Also, two, one of the main reasons I got into the whole Bravo universe was because of Scandavall. And so I hope that more people get into the, like, summer house. So if we name it Scammer House, it's like the immediate tie. I feel like West Will Scam works better. I liked that too.

That was funny, too. That was a Jack Lewis original. I do think it's interesting that, you know, all jokes aside, that right now, most people in the internet are calling it scimanda and that it's it's focused around Amanda and I think it is to me that like the internet seems to be coming more for for Amanda than West and I don't I think that's you know Nelly and I were talking I think that's I feel like that's centered around like girl code being broken but I it for the life of me to me West is definitely the biggest villain here in terms of yeah he seemingly was most in control of like not letting Amanda off the hook at all

because it's fucked up what she did. But like, you could at least be like, okay, she got out of divorce, and I don't know, maybe she's not thinking clearly. Where we're watching a whole season of West lead on Sierra again, which is why when we were covering this season, I told you guys like, I don't buy this shit.

Like, it doesn't feel authentic. And but yet here is a guy still like fucking with someone's heart where Sierra clearly was this like, yo, like, this isn't nothing to me, this is real to me. and West, West clearly stating that he was like in control of his feelings where he's like, I don't want her to get hurt again, which I thought was this like a fucked up thing to say at the time. But like it really goes to show like his mindset. Anyways, there's so much to get into.

Carlos, I want to, what, what are your just general thoughts around what's going on? And what are the most interesting topics about this story that you, you are thinking about? Well, look, I think universally, I agree with you, right? I think Wes is kind of getting off the hug. But, so we need to unpack. that. The biggest thing, though, that I am hearing from the audience as well is the fact that girl coat is something that is so sacred, female friendships, female camaraderie, and that was something that we saw with Sierra and Amanda. It's one of those things where, like, girls know that

guys are going to be guys, and it's sort of expected for a guy to be a tool, right? For a guy to be a douche, for a guy to be an a hale. But when it comes to girls, is one of those things where I do understand why a lot of people do feel like Amanda, you did break girl cold. At the end of the day, is this as big as what happened with Ariana and, you know, Tom? No, because they were in a 10-year relationship and it was happening behind her back in the home. The shit was disgusting. This one is different because we were led to believe that this friendship was real. And if that's the case for you to sleep with your girls, man.

Despite the fact that you guys are broken up, it's a man is the villain. Sierra is the victim, obviously. But West definitely is sort of getting off the hook only because the focus has been on the betrayal. Yeah. I, well, you know, and then I want to back up a little bit

and discuss, like, I think a lot of people are talking about this joint statement, right? And there's not a lot of clarity right now. Like, our Wes and Amanda in love? Because now and I were talking, like, they have to get married. Like, the only way this feels like

it's any way makes sense. Amanda has to be like, I know I ruined this friendship, but this was like, he is the love of my life. I'm pregnant with all of his children. We are getting married. Like, it has to be in game. This can't be something that lasts two,

three months. Like, it can't be a situation ship. It's just like, it has to be worth it. Right? Because like, do we all agree that how this relationship plays out West and Amanda? Because, you know, right now we're overreacting. Right now everyone's just like freaking out because we can't believe it's true. But like, and there's a lot of discourse about like, you know, people's character.

Like, how could they do this? Like, how did this all go down? But like, you guys, we have breaking news. Oh, what? What's going on? Summerhouse, this is reported by page six. Summerhouse star West Wilson was in an exclusive relationship with another woman when Amanda the tool of romance was exposed.

Well, look. It's not surprised there. He's like a man. Yeah. Yeah. It is publicly referred to as Montana girl. And I am sure that there will be several more that come out. They'll probably be more.

But like, yeah, but how this, if they ended up getting married and have kids and lived happily forever, we would, it would be easier long term to digest. But the fact that it's looking more and more, like these two made a joint statement, like, being in a situation ship and like not even being exclusive it really makes it it really gives it an icky feeling of like how careless and reckless and how much they the mental gymnastics they had to do to justify how they moved knowing that they were going to ultimately like fuck over sierra and in a way that like carlos i know like you've talked a lot about just like these relationships on TV, the inauthenticity sometimes that they are and things like that. But no matter what, no matter how inauthentic and how close were Amanda and Sierra, like, it's even to a

coworker that was shitty. Because Sierra, over the years, whatever you thought about her and West or whatever, what she made very clear is that like when this shit gets aired and we are all talking on the show, it's, it's really hard for her, you know? Like, it's like, it's, it's just vulnerable to be on these shows and have people like judge your dating choices and things like that and they played her for a fucking fool, you know, and it's just like, and she's not, but like it must just be hard to like watch your, even if it's not your best friend, someone who like is like cool with you, go behind your back and hook up with a guy that like you like have been vulnerable about over the years and like I've talked about your complicated feelings about the situation and the way they

moved, it seems so careless. And I just, I'm trying to wrap my brain around like how they justified it to each other, West and Amanda. And I also just, like, the big question is, is like, why did, why the statement now? And I want to talk, I want to unpack that

as a producer, right? Who create shows, work on shows. I need to explain to the public that that was strategic. And there were more people involved in that statement, right? You have publicists.

Let's be clear, the network had to, you know, be involved in that too. Yeah. Because it is a hit show. This was rumored for over a week, you know. Yeah. Approximately two to three weeks, right? Where we were sort of led to believe that something was going on, but everybody remained quiet. That is because a lot of people from the network, the production company, the publicists, the cast, they had to rebuild this story in a

way that was appetizing for the show, right? What we now know is this. I do agree with you. I think this was a situation shift. I think the joint statement was not to say we're together as one. I think they had to say, we have one shot at releasing a statement and we have to be aligned with this. Immediately after that statement was released, the network said they have no intention of picking up cameras for Summerhouse, but it will get addressed on the reunion. We have to be reminded, too, there's a spinoff starring Kyle and Amanda called in the city, right? So this is a big machine that we all have been involved in with our various shows,

and that's the reason why nothing has truly been leaked. And the shot of Sierra allegedly finding this news out outside of Hermet in New York City, listen, this is all for the attention that will drive the viewership for the reunion and the spin-off. Yeah, I've heard that there are receipts regarding West and Amanda, and those receipts have been shown or going to be shown to Andy, and it definitely will be discussed. I don't know if we'll see the receipts. I don't know if they're in a position to show us their receipts.

You know what I mean? Show us to the receipts. But I believe that- What kind of respect? So, like, are there, like, photos? Oh. Well, there was that rumored video. Yeah.

Is in the city filming currently? Or do we know? I think they already filmed it. They filmed it back to back, right? Yeah, that's already been filmed because it was filming the summer. And is Sierra in in the city, or is she only doing summer house? Amanda and Kyle are sort of the, like, the leads in this show. Okay.

And Lindsay, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. It's going to be bizarre to watch something because even watching last night. episode, knowing what's happening now, it's bizarre to watch that. So it's going to be weird to watch a whole other series, knowing that Wes and Amanda have now been together. Like, how are we going to get through a season of not getting the tea on that?

Yeah. I'm curious, Dylan, just as a big fan of this show and someone who's followed it from your perspective, what are the things that you're most fascinated to discuss and learn about? I mean, just after watching last night's episode, especially seeing how good of a friend Sierra is to Amanda. Through her about to get divorced, basically. It just shows how good of a friend she is. And especially since they just had that conversation at that restaurant about race and

like watching it back and how Sierra's had to deal with that. And Amanda not being as sensitive now to that shows she's not as good of a friend. The thing that I think Sierra does that I've seen on the show is when she does like someone, she has a hard time, you know, fully committing. and because she doesn't want to get hurt. And that is hard to watch because I was kind of rooting for her in West throughout this season to get back together. I mean, now she's so much better off without him.

Although she's hurt now, she's going to be getting the Ariana treatment, I think. I hope so. And, I mean, she already posted like a brand deal yesterday or with, she was on the carpet interviewing for. Yeah, with John Hamm. Yes. Number one Sierra Defender, Johnny. Yeah. And you know, like, perfect timing.

But it's just it's, it's, I wish if I was Sierra's friend, I would have told her earlier, like, go harder for West. Just like, admit, not that this would have changed anything, but. What do you mean by go harder for West? Because she's always kind of keeping him at arm's length. And if she. Thank God. Just put her, like, showed her cards. But yeah, showed her cards.

Not that this would have changed anything. But before this happened, I was just watching like, oh, like, if you like him, you have to go a little bit harder for it, you know. Yeah. But he was, West was like when you, that's what I'm saying. Like you watch this season back. He's just giving classic fuck boy where it's just like, he likes to flirt with her. It's a fun, banty relationship. He likes, he likes that she's mean to him and stuff like that.

But like, he just treated it like it was a game, you know? Like it was like this like, and he does this whole like, you know, sheepish. Maybe I'm in love with her. You know, but like I just don't think it was never in West as like. It was never his plan to really pursue it. And then he played the whole like, well, I really care about Sierra and I don't want to do this to her again. And when for him to be able to acknowledge that there's in his mind, there's no scenario where he's going to be sad if it doesn't work out, but acknowledges that she could be. Like he's acknowledging how much power he feels he has in that dynamic.

Yeah. By saying that. And it's just like, I'm just at what point at this relationship with Amanda Start is like a lot of people are questioning now? a couple weeks ago when Kyle was getting drunk and he was like fuck you Amanda or whatever and we all like oh West way to actually stand up to Kyle there was a moment where Amanda walked past him and he kind of like put out his hand and I remember being like I don't know maybe Kyle Amanda are not on good terms but like if a guy touched my girlfriend or wife in a caressing way like there there was intimacy in that hand grab that West had with Amanda that wasn't just like some like hold on it was it was a

very intimate. They shared a Remi Wolf sweatshirt. Yeah. And now you're going back and you're seeing a lot of people point out that there is like, there seems to be this intimacy between West and Amanda that we didn't clock before. Which I kind of have forgiveness for up until now. But watching it, I was kind of like rooting for their friendship because I'm like, she needs somebody right now, like seeing how their relationship was so volatile.

And I'm curious what Carlos' take is on this because like watching it back, a part of me is wondering, like, are. do they know they're getting divorced while this season is unfolding? And they're just like holding out for this season to end knowing that we've got a spin-off show coming. Like, do you think there's any chance that they kind of knew that that was happening and they were just hanging on to the last little bit of this relationship? Or do you think, I'm curious, like, how real it probably was?

Yeah, I mean, look, in order to drive viewership to a spinoff of this magnitude, you need the audience to enter it with something that they've been following. So yeah, I think they probably did have some idea that this wasn't going to work. I'm not going to work. Let's slowly, you know, showcase the sort of end of this so that we give people reason to tune in to the spinoff and to sort of see how we're able to handle this. I definitely think that. I think, look, I think Amanda West were messing around for much longer than people are realizing.

And I think this. When it comes to reality stars, especially in the Bravo universe, it is like one big college. You know what I mean? It's like one big college. There's a fraternity. There's a sorority. And then those two mix at a keg party. And that's why you see some of these hookups, whether it's, you know, Ashley Darby hooking

up with people on Summer House. And, you know, you hear all of these stories. Again, not making excuses for all of this. But I don't believe for one second that. this is a real relationship. I think Kyle and Amanda for sure were going through something real, but I definitely think there's layers to this because as a producer, you have to tell the story in a way that makes sense for the finale,

but also for the premiere of a spinoff that is taking your two stars on this other journey. Yeah. You know, we watched Summer House last night. It felt like I was watching a rerun from a couple years ago. go. It just felt so outdated with this news, right? And like, here we are just like still like getting into the little Kyle and Amanda divorce. It already was like, we already knew they were divorced or separated at least. And so, yeah, it was interesting watching it back. But now we're like, now we see Amanda already in another relationship or situation, or whatever it is with West. And it's like,

that can't necessarily be good for, I mean, obviously people are going to watch Summerhouse, but they're not going to be watching Summer House for the show that they made. I get curious as a producer, how would you feel working on this show knowing that like, yeah, I mean, we're going to, people are going to watch, but no one's really going to be paying attention

to anything else other than West and Amanda. Disagree. No, the thing is this, Nick, you have to think bigger picture, right? Summer House is a popular show, but by no stretch of the imagination, is it as big as a real housewives? Is it as big as even Van der Pum rules?

So as a producer, this is a gold mine because the thing is this, you have your lawyer audience that's going to watch it regardless, but you also have millions of people who has never seen Summer House don't know what the fuck is going on

between the Sierra Man, the West situation that is now going to tune in to be like, I don't want FOMO, and I am going to watch this. It's the reason why, think about it, the statement was released the day the show was airing hours later. They knew they had to get this out because, to your point, the episodes we're watching obviously is dated, but they also knew we have to give people hooked. I'm going to tell you what's going to happen.

We're all going to rewatch other seasons, Nick, to make sure we're caught up by the time the reunion airs. And I bet you, the premiere, the reunion's going to be the highest rated ever. I was going to make the same point that he did about them releasing the statement on the day of the show. They know it's going to get. And it's the same thing how I was saying with how I got into Vanderpump Rules with Scandival. Yeah. This is going to be what pulls people into Summerhouse, especially too with also just the more that Giggly Squad blows up to with like Paige Disorbo and Hannah Burner getting that TV show deal with Amy Poehler. It's like all this stuff.

They can watch from like this start. of how all these people are where they are now. So true. Do you think that they are going back and changing their edits for the next couple of episodes before we get reunion and completely kind of show us more of West and Amanda? I think that's a huge possibility because the thing is this. Depending on when the reunion is going to happen, they do have enough time and post-production to add things in.

Let's think about it. When Dr. Wendy and Eddie were arrested, we all of a sudden started to see more scenes of Wendy talking about how much money she spent on renovating the house and hearing her daughter talk about, I got three phones, you know? So, yeah, I do think there's a world to where you're going to see more of things that sort of lets us in on like the nuances that, you know, they may have found in, in those footages. That's interesting you bring that up, Carlos, because honestly, for the life of me, and I guess what you mean by, like, how much the network was probably involved in releasing

this statement, I'm pretty sure I've heard enough people tell me that, like, I think West and Amanda got, like, PR together. Like, they were, they were getting, like, outside help outside of the network. But, like, Dylan, I think you were mentioning it. But, like, Amanda also the same day released this kind of campaign with this clothing slash weed company. Like they posted, like yesterday morning they posted this, like premiered it.

And then they replaced her. And Amanda must have known that this campaign was coming out. And I, before thinking about the network, I was like, in what world? Why would she not give them a heads up? Or why would they release it this day? It was almost like, do you think,

for the, for the, for the, for or Carlos or Susie, I'm curious, do you guys, it just seems like they didn't realize or they underestimated the potential backlash or maybe they, because it just, it almost feels like they didn't think it was going to be that bad. I don't know. Because like, why would you, that's what I think release a campaign on the same day. Or the campaign, the brand is diabolical for what they did, because to take her, to post her photo, take it down, replace her with a regular model or whoever that was. Like if I were an influencer or like Amanda or somebody like that and somebody did that to me, like diabolical. Like you do not stand beside me. Like we're not, we're never working together again,

which they're probably not working with her either. But I just thought that was such a like slap in the face. One thing to take it down, another thing to replace her with somebody else. I was like, or, or they knew about it and they're like, great, release it. And we have a plan as well to amp our brand up because people are talking about it. But I thought that. that was so diabolical to Amanda. It was also like the caption was crazy. I think it was all strategic. I definitely think when you have a scandal of this magnitude,

you definitely have brands contacting your management, your publicist saying what the fuck is going on, you know, and everybody's semi-houtrelease a statement, boom, boom, boom. I do think they realize that, listen, all press is good press. What we saw when Jill Zarin made that abhorrent comment during the Super Bowl and how Zarin fabrics, you know, posted a picture of Jill Zarin on their Instagram page with the X on top of it, you know, to drive the traffic. I think all of these businesses understand the power of social media.

So I do agree they knew this was coming and they were playing along with the attention that it will drive because, listen, if they did not do this, we would not be talking about that brand today. But it does make me, like, sick to my stuff. because I feel like this is just how it worked. Like, women just are always regardless going to get the shit end of the stick. And like, she did not commit a crime. Like, she was a shitty friend.

She did a shitty thing. And, like, she's going to have to live with that for the rest of her life. And she's going to have to either try to, like, mend her relationship with Sierra or completely lose that friendship. And, like, that's something she has to live with. But to, like, have brands pull sponsorships. like, and then you have Dakota from Secret Lives and Mormon Wives. He just got a new reality TV show. Yes.

Literally. How are these two things able to coexist and happen at the same time? Like, West is not, West is going to be fine. He's going to continue to do his podcast and do his thing. He'll be a sports journalist and he'll get his brand deals. But like, opportunities are being ripped out of Amanda's hands. And it's like wild to me. I think that's true, but unfortunately it's just like, this is a nasty business that we're in.

And the audience drives the sentiment, you know, like the fact that we're calling it Scamanda and not something that's centered around West tells you that the internet thinks that Amanda's the Tom Sandoval. And I think that's an interesting discussion. I think we can hide. I mean, I don't see a world. Again, to me, Amanda, you know, I don't know girl code like, you know, Susie or you do. And obviously that's an important thing. But like, I do have at least some grace for Amanda in the sense that like what you did. There's no justification.

Like, again, it just has to be worth it. Like, it's the only way it better be worth it. Like, you better marry the guy, you know, because now your character is in question of how you show up for your friends or how you don't show up for your friends. But, you know, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out too. because if like West, what I've heard how the season ends or continues to go on just from online stuff is that they, West and Sierra do end up getting kind of together. Yeah, they start, like, like, I'm hoping that that it changes more on West and less on Amanda. Also, what you said earlier, Nick, is give her a little bit of grace. She just got out of this 10-year roller coaster of a relationship with a guy that isn't great.

And she's, you know, getting back into it. what she did was shitty and messy, but... Yeah, like, at no way makes it what she did to Sierra okay. It's just more, like, to your point, Dylan, it's like, you can at least be like, all right, so she hasn't been in the dating world in a while. Carlos, you know that, like, this, when you're in, once you're in this kind of reality TV bubble, like, you just become, it's like you're in high school again. You, it's, you have a hard time connecting with, like, people outside of your bubble.

Like, people aren't relating to your experiences. And so here you have Amanda, who's only known, like, Kyle for 10. 10 years. It's been her whole life. And then she like, you know, befriends this kind of affable, goofy, you know, good looking, you know, six foot West. And it's just like, I do think Amanda was a little vulnerable. And I think West took advantage of that vulnerability. Like, again, in no way lets her off the hook of what she did to Sierra as a friend. And like, I do think she, she's going to get a shit ton of criticism. And she deserves the criticism. But to me, West was way more in control and and I don't see how you give him any grace because again like now we're hearing

like all these other women are coming out of the woodwork and he's just he's this he's this kind of it's crazy he's a fuck boy yeah I think what really pisses me off about west's positioning in this is that just because he benefits from low expectations just because he is a fuck boy does not mean he gets to treat someone Sierra the way he has been treating her of making an entire storyline on his show directed around this will they won't they this pining this like I might be in love with her kind of like bullshit now that we see just to like go around and fuck with her best friend it's like yeah you can have low expectations for a man because at the end of the day it's a man but it's like there's a difference between that man being like a room like how a man's going to treat you in romance

and like how a man's going to treat you as a friend and like you know you really just think that someone is going to be a better friend to you and you really obviously you expect better from Amanda and that's why Amanda's getting all the heat in this, but it's like, West, like, get fucked, honestly. Like, are you kidding me? For TV, you see how she gets treated on the show. You see how the audience treats her. You see the conversations around it,

and you still go ahead and do that because your cloud is more important than your friendship with her. And it pisses me all. Yeah. I mean, the beginning of every season, too, is West in the car up to the Hamptons being like, well, we haven't talked in a few months,

but, like, I really like her. And it's like, well, if this was real and you really did have those true feelings, you do it off the show, too. I mean, as a normal human. Yeah, be a person. Right. But what is interesting, because I've seen people, you know, like everyone's having this

discourse about like, how does this compare to Scandival? And then you had other people wanting to downplay all of it because it's like, if you're like an OG reality TV fan, like, and you watch Vanderpump from the beginning, you saw Kristen Doty and Jacks hook up when Jacks was dating Stasi. But like, what made Scandival so intense and garnered all these people, interest in why I think Summer House does the same is like we're talking about adults. We're talking about 30-something-year-olds. Like, we're not talking about like 21, 20-year-old, 22-year-old messy people. If you guys go turn on Southern hospitality right now, they're doing this shit on the regular.

You know, it's like it's a different cast. It's a different group. It's like, it's a really good show. If you're, if you're not watching, you should, you should watch. But like, we're talking about a group of people who should be above this type of really sloppy behavior and they should be more considerate with these like relationships and friendships. And the, you know, like, when you get older, you realize that like, you know, real friends are hard to come by. And you value that more. And so the fact that you have this going on with people who are in their early 30s, I think that's what's so, like, fascinating for a lot of people because you expect more from these people, you know? Yeah. And that's the reason why we always have to look at this through the

lens of they're in a bubble. Yeah. And that's why it's not normal for the average human to sleep with their girls' man. It's just, does it happen? Sure, but not at the volume to where you're seeing it. And I want to

get back to what Natalie was saying, too, because it is a big point of contention on TikTok when it comes to how women are being dragged for making this mistake. We saw it with

Rachel. Rachel hasn't worked since, right? Tom Sandibald did a Fox competition show and he also was on the House of Villains. And traitors. I was watching this Oprah interview with the whole, yeah, the whole co-play scandal. And the woman said how

she got fired. The company asked her to leave and she understood that, but she hasn't worked since the cold play scandal. However, the guy has been offered for jobs. And it's really to me a study of, and the woman, the co-play scandalous woman, she said how she had no idea

how much women hated other women in this scenario. And I do think there is something to be said about how women are treated differently when it comes to a scandal of extramarital affairs or any sort of like scandal like this opposed to men. West is going to work and it's going to be seen as a high guy on the cover GQ. Yeah. Maybe it's because we just expect so little of them, I don't, of men or West.

Yeah, he benefits from. Yeah, low expectation. It's like the whole like idea of like weaponized incompetence with men. It's like that's what West is doing but with his like heart. And it's just like that's not an excuse. Like that is not an excuse to treat people poorly. I saw some in tweet about this and I told you like remember two reunions ago when the first in West and Sierra drama happened. Yeah.

And West kind of clamped up like very sheepish. He almost like didn't know what to say, had nothing to say. It was kind of awkward and so much so that he had to address it post reunion. Like what is he going to say now at this reunion? Like, well, he can have Amanda speak for him and make a joint statement. Yeah. Or he, but he, he does that all the time. I mean, even on last night's episode when he's talking to.

to Kyle and confronting them at the table, he, like, he can't look him in the eyes. He's always just looking down. He's like, you know, always trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and very, I think, aware of how the audience will perceive him. That's my take on it. It does spend a lot of time on those outfits. I'm curious, Dylan, Carlos, and Susie and Mary. This is just the beginning of how we dissect this drama and how we go back and what we question, you know, all these people's motives. So like, big question is when did this start? How long has this been going on? We all suspect much longer than we realize. Not too long ago, West started posting some political takes, which I thought was new for him, you know? And I remember saying to the team,

I go, it feels performative to me. We live in a culture now that if people agree with us on certain topics, we will go to the ends of the earth to try to justify the behavior because we consider them like, an ally, a literal ally. And morally good. And it just makes you kind of wonder, why did this guy a couple months ago start like spouting off his political point of view when you never heard it from him before? I don't, you know, maybe that's a coincidence. I don't know.

It's not a coincidence there. I think it's just that. I think, listen, we have to understand. Wes is not alone in his home, like the average citizen. He has a team. They all knew this was going to come out weeks before it came out yesterday. So all of that is a part of the strategy in terms of, do I believe he believes that? Sure.

But why all of a sudden are you now using your platform to address that? Because the thing was this. they knew that they had to do whatever it takes to make it seem like he's a good guy that made a bad mistake. Yeah. And that's the narrative that Ian's team want to give us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's just like, I'm curious how Amanda's going to, Carlos, I would be interested your take on like how Amanda is going to go forward playing this because it's like she doesn't have the same like people are going to forgive West because they expect that from him. And we've obviously talked about, like, the misogyny going into the way Amanda's being treated. But it's like, she still is on Bravo. It's not like a Raquel situation where she's just going to kind of, like, go away. And she wasn't even that big of a fixture in Vanderpompton. The same way that, like, Ariana and Sandoval were. I'm curious, like, where does Amanda go from here? Well, the thing is this.

Her reputation is stained for quite a bit. I'm just going to, like, lay it out. Mm-hmm. The harsh reality for Amanda is this is going to be, a couple of years before people really start to see you outside of this scandal. The best thing that she should do, and this is what I tell my reality stars, when they're caught up in a scandal, she has to own it. She has to own it.

She has to let us in on what went into this. If she kept this a secret from Sierra for so long, it was doing this behind her back. That's fucked up. but she has to own it. There's nothing worse than people making excuses, you know, again, and not to bring up Jill Zarin again, but for Jill Zarin to say, well, damn, you ought to give me a chance to apologize.

It's like, excuse me? You recorded it, hit upload, made a caption, and hit it. Like, I'm sorry, we're not giving you grace to make an apology. So I think for Amanda, look, I have never seen a woman go through this that came out of unscathed

within two years. It's going to take more than two years, unfortunately for her. The reunion, too, I think, is going to be worse on Amanda than West

because Sierra is going to be like, I'm not surprised by you. Like, you know, she's going to be way more hurt by the friendship. Because Amanda has

overall a pretty clean slate, I think, from her time on Summer House. I mean, she's put up with Kyle, but I don't know, at least from what I remember, she's always had,

like, she's come off pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. This is a big way to Unfortunately for Amanda, to all your points, is that Amanda is just guilty of doing some of the most triggering things that, like, women can do to other women, you know? Yeah, that's a good point.

And whether, you know, we can sit here and say, like, West deserves way more attention and criticism. But, you know, the snake in the grass kind of vibes you feel, you know, yeah, it's a bummer because, yeah, because you imagine, Wes, you know, if you're Sierra, you don't even want to. to validate your feelings towards West, right? Like, and I will say, like, I think what's, I'm to say nice about the scandal, but like, this is not Taylor, Frankie Paul, Bachelorette scandal in the sense that, like, honestly, as fascinating as we are, it's hard to talk about. They're, like, there's kids involved. There's some, like, some people really struggling with some mental health problems. We're worried about the parties involved. You know, there's a clear hierarchy of, like, who we're, who we have empathy for Sierra, who were, you know, we're kind of

debating the West in Amanda of who deserves more criticism. No one really cares about Kyle right now. He's DJing. He's fun. At the same time, Sierra's already out there living her best life. You know, she did that Friends and Neighbor premiere. It was this iconic moment. We're all rooting for her to have Arianna Maddox treatment. We imagine she's going to, her star is about to blow up. And so, like, we can have sympathy for her, but no, at the end of the day, she's going to be okay. And I think we're all kind of rooting for her to be unbothered. Yeah. When it comes, you know, because it's one of those moments where you like you, you fuck around

with someone, you don't know why you keep giving them attention. And then something happens when you go, you know what? What the fuck is I doing? Like, what am I? This is, I should have known better. Now I see it fucking clearly. But with the Amanda of it all, there's just so much more for this year unpacked. And you're, I kind of, I agree with you guys.

I think it's just like it's just going to make more sense for her to be harder on Amanda because like why give West that attention? Yeah, I also just, I really feel for Sierra because it's like, obviously she's, she is going to be okay. This is going to be a blessing in disguise at the end of the day. Yeah. And as far as her career is concerned, this is the best thing that could happen. As far as her heart is concerned, like, I just, listen, I think a lot of us have been in

situations, obviously not on TV, but like, you know, your friends don't show up. for you in the way you want to in those situations and you get fucked over. And it's just like for Sierra to be kind of stuck in this world where she's still working with them. She still has to see them. She still has to like, you know, have chemistry with all of these people. You know, it's not going away. She can't go away from it. She has the off season. Thank God to kind of like process this. But it's like she's coming right back and just has to like go back into this environment and there's nowhere for her to go. And I just like, you know, Amanda was like an emotionally safe person for her in that house. And it just like, yeah, it just sucks that she doesn't have

that anymore. Yeah. And my heart goes out to her for that. I think Nick made a really good point about he said something, you said something about how Amanda did the one thing that kind of triggers people. And I feel like what you're saying as well, how as viewers, like you become so emotionally invested while watching because I think so many of us have been in that position where you like somebody and they lead you on a little bit, but they're actually never taking you serious. And to be betrayed by somebody that has been there for you, shown up for you during that time and kind of been like the pat on the back, like, it's going to be okay. You don't deserve this or, you know, supporting you. And then that person betrays you. I mean, it is a very, like, unique scenario, but also, like, so common. And it's, like,

the most volatile feeling when you're experiencing it. And the hatred and, like, the disgust you feel for, honestly not the person who's been the guy or in my case it would be like the guy like you kind of expect it you're like you're a douchebag I don't know why I was so into you but like you're my friend and you were like petting my head when I was crying drunk on the bathroom floor about it like yeah it's like you're mourning

the friendship not the like crush right exactly yeah it reminds me the thing I say all the time like when it comes to loyalty loyalty is one of those things that everyone says they are you know like are you loyal they're like oh of course of course I'm loyal like why wouldn't you why wouldn't I be loyal but as you get older you learn that there's very few people in your life that you can assume they're loyal to you.

Like they're loyal to you until like it's a conflict of interest. Like they're loyal to you into you like the same person. They're loyal to you until it's just like, well, you know, like I can't support this type of behavior. You know, whatever it is. This is so easy for people for us to justify why we shouldn't be loyal in this moment. And usually that comes down to like, you know, different agendas or, you know, when our, when our interests don't align anymore. And I think this is a perfect example of like why loyalty is far rare than people like recognize. I think Sierra's intuition is really strong too overall, which is why she kept West at the arms link. And, you know, she never would have seen this coming from Amanda. Oh my gosh. To have someone pull one

over on you, like when I, I think back to the last time I was cheated on, which was several years ago, but it was, it came at such a shock. But this is very similar where I agree, unless Sierra knew, but I agree I don't think she's outcoming, but to have somebody literally pulling over on you, it is such a disorienting experience and it makes you question your own, like, ability to read a

situation. And coming from a friend, it feels so much worse than coming from a situation ship. I don't know why, but it's like so much more painful and scary. You know, your friends are supposed to be forever. These guys, you know, are kind of come and go. Who do you think made the first move?

I think West. I think West. West for sure. I think West knew that she needs a nice guy in the moment. And Amanda got the nice attention that she's been craving that Kyle was not giving her. And that's also why I, like I said, give Amanda a little bit of grace. I think she's getting played a little bit. Yeah, you're right. And to hear that he's in a relationship.

When you say it like that, West had a front row seat to like seeing what Amanda needed to feel comfort and support and validation. He was chasing after her The last couple episodes With her. And so for this to go down this way It gets ickier and ickier The more you think about it Because again, not okay

That Amanda from whatever she said to Sierra Either on camera Or interviews or behind closed doors That made Sierra feel like Amanda Was a friend she could trust That's fucked up And she's gonna have to like deal with that But if this is like West making the first move

and he has a front row seat to like how Amanda needs comfort. And he gives her that comfort in a way that like crosses a line of intimacy. Only for Amanda to be left as the one who's the most vilified. And he kind of gets away kind of clean. It's, ugh. Yeah. You know, I doubt you're going to have a lot of men come forward being like, I was also hooking up with Amanda when this was going on like we're hearing about.

I don't think she plays that way. Yeah. Is there an opportunity to give a little bit of sympathy for Kyle in this moment? Sure. I think there is a part of me. I think I was like, I don't know if I was hard on him a few episodes back, but watching it, I was like, he's such a dick. And like, I don't, I didn't actually say that. But I think that was like the sentiment of like, yeah, of course Amanda's acting this way. Like you've been treating her so poorly, blah, blah, blah. But honestly, seeing last night's episode and hearing the stressor of like millions of dollars on the line, I've never had millions of dollars up against my name. not that it ever justifies treating your partner poorly, but I think we've all, like, I know that I've been in a situation where I've had high stress and I've like taken it out on my parents. And I feel

so guilty and so awful afterwards because I'm like, you don't understand. And you're just like, you get a little bit sassy or whatever. But I can't imagine being in his position. I'm not justifying how he's treated her. But I do feel like he's like completely out of the conversation. And I do have like a lot of like sympathy and empathy for him after hearing the financial dresses of lover boy and now hearing like it is that is his wife like that is his ex-wife that is hooking up with one of his best friends and that also is very heavy along with everything going on with lover boy what do you think dylan my thought on it i think everyone deserves like respect so i feel for kyle in the moment if he hadn't had all these rumors about him

cheating with on amanda like i would have a little more sympathy for him i also think kyle's out of the conversation because he hasn't said anything. I think it takes, if he wants to start playing into it, I think he would be more involved. But I do understand what you're saying as well. I just, Kyle is his own worst enemy. Yeah. I agree with that, Dylan, to the extent that like, as it stands now from what we know from watching the show or what they've said or not said, I'm not like out there being like, how's Kyle? I guess is what I'm trying to say. And like, yes. You know, like, I'm worried. Now, if there's more to the story that Kyle adds context to, it's not going to make what he said okay, but it might, there might be a lane where you're like, oh, well, like, fuck, yeah, I mean,

like, everyone has their limit, you know, type of thing, you know? And, you know, like, so I saw a tweet basically saying something like, oh, Kyle saying, fuck you to Amanda after, like, she chose to, like, keep hanging out with West that night, like, hits different now. And now, again, like, if Kyle was expecting something else going, on then and maybe they if they were hooking up then like literally behind his back and in front of his face i guess then maybe but i don't think it would be smart for kyle to in any way justify his behavior um as a as a result of of what manda did or didn't do yeah yeah i mean i feel for kyle

in the way that he's about to be a level of divorced guy that we have not seen on bravo in a minute If it was me producing Kyle Cook, I would say lean into that. Like, he needs to be DJing Steely Dan. He needs to be, like, he needs to be less like club guy and more just like, well, the consequences of my actions. Darn, let's keep going. Like, that's, I think that's how, like, Kyle wins back kind of like some sort of public sort of. Empathy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, listen, this is the best thing that could happen with us. Yeah.

Yeah, because it, Kyle has a big opportunity to change the narrative in terms of how he's viewed. And to have this sort of, I hate to say the word, but to have this gym fall into his lap in order to now take this and sort of like appear to the audience as a man who is only his mistakes and what he did. And what would make him win, honestly, if I was cast producer, and this was shocked the world, I would encourage him to sit down with Amanda and to give her grace. Like, that was shock everybody. You expect him to be upset and angry. But I think if he says, I wasn't the best man for you. And perhaps in your need of support, this man took advantage of you, not, of course, sexually, right?

but just took advantage of your emotional state. If he's able to sort of articulate it that way and take ownership there, I think Kyle has a lot of room to be viewed as the audience as somebody that they will support. Yeah. Well, and I think he's maybe already starting to do that because he was on Watch What Happens Live not too long ago.

And Andy asked him straight up, do you believe these rumors? And Kyle was like, I don't think they're true. And then Andy's like, but if they're true, how, like, what will you think? And basically Kyle said, like, you know, I'll support him. Amanda.

Wow. Yeah. He's already kind of following your advice, Carlos. So I think that's probably. Yay, he listens to reality with the king too. There you go. He's a raindrop. I did see something if that was hilarious.

The butterfly effect of Kyle Cook's DJ career. Because they probably get divorced anyways. But if he doesn't become a DJ and he like changed his course and decides to become a good husband, And like this scandal might not ever happen, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it is like, it is, there is a thing with Kyle where it's like, yeah, this is kind of like the content. Like he basically, you kind of see it in the show and maybe it's the edit. But it seems a little bit like he's kind of like driving Amanda into West's arms.

That's so true. Because Jesse's busy. Yeah. I will say how of all this, I'm just happy it isn't Jesse because I couldn't do more of the Jesse. I see him enough on the TV that if this was the scandal, and he would be writing songs. It would just be like, maybe too much. He would be in the studio.

I saw a tweet that was like, Jesse Solomon, you need to get out of the studio and in with Amanda. So Sierra can. I saw something that said, at least Jesse asked permission. I saw that too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But again, it's just like, I just hope Sierra can come out of this being like, fuck these people. You guys are not my true friends, obviously. Like, I am a person. I am not just a prop for you guys to like have all of your situation ships around. It's kind of what it feels like.

And she just deserves so much better than that from people who care about her. And that's the tough position she's in, right? She is a character on this show. It's part of her job to kind of lean into these narratives. You know, again, like we talked about it with the trailer of Frankie Paul. Like there's, you know, there's sometimes things that as reality TV stars, we're like, you know, fuck it. Fine, sure, I'll do it.

I'll take it for the fucking team. I know I'm going to get a little bit of heat. I wouldn't normally do this, you know, this is not who I am, but I'll fucking do it. And for the most part, it's, it's mostly inconsequential, right? But to the degree that Sierra has been a team player, only for this to result in her being played. And, you know, she's not a fool, but like, I think people made her out to pretend, I'm sure she feels that way right now, where she feels like she should have known better.

She feels like she should have not trusted certain people. and that just you feel like that ego it's just that it feels foolish right and like we've we've heard from Sierra in the past about like what bothers her and she is like rightfully like she has a lot of pride in how she carries herself you know and how she moves

right and I you know it the thing that she seemed most upset about Wes in the past is like how he went out in the public and like spoke on her name in a way that was like I don't do that to my friends right and so I feel like the people she's calls friends or even her coworkers are moving in a way that she doesn't move

and she's communicated like that's not how I roll. And it's like they haven't respected how she's communicated that. And now she probably feels like foolish for trusting these people in a way that like we would all feel foolish if we were in her position. Yeah. And that's what makes her so relatable. Listen, Sierra deserves, if not more, the same success Ariana got. right? Because, you know, the thing is she spoke about race recently on the show and really, you know, was honest about her experience with the cast and how the Bravo audience, which we all have experienced the Bravo fan base, good or bad, right? They are extremely opinionated and they won't stop until they feel like they got your attention.

So she has suffered through a lot of emotional turmoil outside of this scandal, right? She was already going through something that we saw on the show. And that's the reason why for me she deserves so much success in the sense of she has the ability to truly tell a story not only of girl code, not only of douchebag guys, but also being a black woman on reality television, and how the audience perceives you and then to deal with this. You know, so my hope for her

is the fact that she's able to really take this and really make something out of this and be a spokesperson, get brand deals, be a brand ambassador. She's gorgeous to look at. She's so smart. And I just think she has the ability to really be one of the mainstays on the network.

Yeah, no, I agree with all that. And it is crazy that you already start seeing the internet trying to justify how to minimize Sierra being upset. You know, it's just like, oh, well, like, whatever, they dated three years ago or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's kind of fucked up. But yeah, I think she is going to be a huge star. I think this will.

And that is because she obviously has the qualities of a star, right? And like, Carlos, you know, there's a lot of people who have star qualities. It just doesn't work. It doesn't pop for them, right? You know, like sometimes it's a little bit of luck. It's a little bit of timing. and then at the end of the day, you have to have the talent. She also know who she is.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's just easy to root for. Dylan, I'm curious, what are some of the things as we, I'm sure this will all, will continue to talk about this, you know, the reunions coming up, but what are some of the things that you're most curious and learning more about as this story unfolds? I mean, definitely seeing how they do edit West and Amanda for the rest of the season, I was

going to say earlier, like they kind of set it up to make it look like Ben was going to be the one that was to sweep Amanda off her feet. And obviously that isn't the case. And now we're seeing Sabrina, who just kind of is the girl that I think he was always on. Like, I think they were already talking and he kind of played it to the camera that he was single. That's my opinion. But I do think just if more gets revealed of when West and Amanda really got together could play a big role in how the long-term effects of Amanda, especially. I mean, I want Wes to get more of the bad rap from this, but is it going to happen?

I don't know. For Sierra, this is kind of jumping ahead a little bit. I know there's been a lot of discussion at who's going to be the next bachelorette. And I think this could be a possible. Slam dunked. Yeah. I mean, I know Mara Higgins has been in talks about it. But I think Sierra would be the perfect person because she just seems to be level-headed.

And I think to be a lead. you have to, I mean, you see what happened when you had Taylor Frankie Paul and I don't know if they're going to take another risk like that. Now, I don't know if ABC and Bravo would tie, but there's no way. No. You don't think so? I mean, I was going to say the same thing.

Bravo is not, NBC is not, like right now, Sierra is there, I mean, she is so valuable to them right now. They're not going to let her. Yeah. Yeah. As a viewer, I want to see it. Yeah. No, like, that's a thing. It's fascinating as fans to think about it, but then we get into the, the contracts.

Cierra's contracts with NBC they have the rights to her they would have to give Disney the permission Also like To be honest If you're Sierra like You don't need that shit

What you want to You want a bunch of casting directors Cast a bunch of like fucking guys For her that like Maybe she's into a couple And then have to deal with the nastiness That is Bachelor Nation Like that's the last thing

I want for Sierra I know as fans I think she would be a fantastic Bachelorette. I mean, honestly, like, what you know about what we love about our bacheloretts, like, Sierra would be fantastic, but like there's just no world in which that would or could happen. And honestly, I wouldn't want that for Sierra. She doesn't need it. I don't think they're going to be casting people at her level, you know. And, yeah. I think that Sierra should host a reality show where it's a bunch of, like, douchebag guys getting their comeuppance. Maybe it's pies in the

face. Maybe it's like they have to publicly embarrass themselves. You know, it's like people that have gotten called out for cheating. Maybe it's other reality stars. And that's and they have to compete for redemption. And Sierra left it. That's my pitch. Sick and twisted. I like it. Peacock, come talk to me. The pitch. It would, you know, it is fascinating to think about how much if Amanda did and if it was Ben she hooked up with, we would be celebrating. Everyone would cheer. Everyone would cheer. Yeah. I know.

And it's like makes you just wonder like what was like that's the thing, was it worth it? Like I mean, I'm not trying to like bash on West here, but like why of all the people? Like that was the one person that was this was going to blow up in your face. I don't think, I really don't think they saw. How bad it would be. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious if their friendship really was that special.

Like devil's advocate. I'm like he really was showing up for her at least in this season from what I'm seeing. He was that person that was always kind of. sticking up for her, being there for her. And if she was vulnerable, I can see how that would be really confusing. If you're finally coming out of something that's super bad for you, really toxic, you've been struggling for years. And then you're like, here's this, if it weren't your husband's also good friend, I could see how you would fall into that trap of like, well, he's my guy best friend. And like he's always been there for me. Like maybe he's the one now knowing that he's been seeing

other people, making you look like a dummy. I mean, I think we can clearly safely assume these people were not as close as they led on in real life. These were, this was show business, not show friends, I think, I don't, I just maybe I,

again, they are friends. They're also co-workers. And all I'm saying is like, I think this is such a crazy. I mean, the fact, it's just like,

these are adults who are like wife swapping. I mean, you're just like, not since high school, have I been like, you know what? Maybe I find my,

my buddy's ex. It's like, it's such a high school thing to do. Yeah, that's so true. And it's just, Especially when you live in New York City. Right. Yeah.

Right. And again, so like, you clearly Amanda and West had to do these like mental gymnastics to to justify it, right? And while I'm sure they're friends, at some point they had to been like, well, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm only see Kyle when we film. Like, you know, they must have sold themselves on the passion or the, I don't know, whatever they felt by, you know, the wrongness of it all. And then they had to have been like, you know, like, maybe Amanda was like, you know,

I'm friends with Sierra through Page, you know, like, it's, they're just not as close as I think we believe. Yeah, I feel that way too. I mean, it is very much like, it's giving a co-worker situation. The only thing that now, though, I do question is just, Sierra seems to know a lot about the relationship of Kyle and Amanda, which I think they're only getting told off camera when they hang out in the city, because we never see Amanda and Sierra really talk in depth about, so I think they became friends through the show, but maybe Amanda, also just didn't value that friendship the same. I mean, clearly, she didn't.

But, yeah. No. Sierra, I do think really valued Amanda's friendship. Well, this, I mean, we're just at the beginning of this. And there will be so much harder to unpack. Carlos, Dylan, I want to thank you guys for joining us. Carlos, especially you for jumping on last minute. Dylan, it was great to have you on.

Please come back as we, whether it's talking Housewives or even more about Scamanda or whatever we decide to call it. I do apologize, Nalia, to step out. I'm honestly not entirely sure, but I think she got some bad family news. So keep her in your thoughts. I appreciate you guys coming on. Susie, as always, Mary, it's great to be with you guys. Dylan and Carlos, before we let you go, can you guys let my audience know where they can

find you and enjoy all the great content that you're making? You can find me on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, all Dylan. Nalbandian. I post funny little skits and sketches. And how about you, Carlos? Yeah, so you can find my podcast, reality, look, the game. on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast,

my YouTube channel as well, and I'm on all social media platforms at the Carlos King underscore. Well, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for having this very interesting conversation, and I'm glad we had the two of you to help us with this.

We'll appreciate you all listening as well. Don't forget to check out VileFiles Plus. If you haven't already, we will certainly be diving even more deep into Commanda or whatever fuck we're going to call it uh we will see you next week bye bye