The Viall Files - E1105 - Scamanda w/ NY Mag's Rebecca Jennings, Dakota Cut, Jessi Draper Rogue & HW w/ Cynthia Bailey

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Starting point is 00:01:20 See terms for details. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another dynamic episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my. very gorgeous pregnant, lovely wife. That's me. Sierra's back in studio. Super excited to have her because we have not heard her summer house Scamanda take.

Starting point is 00:01:52 Are you calling it Scamanda, Sierra? What are you calling it? Yeah, what are you calling it? I'm taking it the all-consuming situation ship of my life. Yeah, I've seen Westgate. Westgate's pretty good. I kind of like Westgate. Westgate.

Starting point is 00:02:07 A little water lady. Yeah, well, we'll get into all that. We also have Rebecca Jennings from New York Magazine. joining us momentarily to help us break down all things, Scamanda, Westgate, whatever you want to call it. We also have some updates in the world of the Mormon wives. Taylor Frankie Paul has left a Mormon church. Dakota has been cut from Vanderpump Villa,

Starting point is 00:02:28 and we'll talk about all that with Rebecca Jennings as well. She recently interviewed Taylor Frankie Paul before her season of the Bachelorette was about to come out, and then subsequently has been put on pause or canceled. We still don't know yet, but certainly a lot to get in with Rebecca all the reality TV controversy that is upon us. I can't wait. We also have Cynthia Bailey Queen, friend of show, host of humble brag,

Starting point is 00:02:54 and star of Real Housewives of Atlanta, which debuted last night. And so Cynthia will be joining us to give us a little insight of what we can expect from this season of Atlanta. And also your favorite Bravo impersonator Miguel Luciano is also with us to help us break down all Real Housewives. We have a new Housewives franchise. Rhode Island is here.

Starting point is 00:03:14 I think it's pretty good. I love it. We have a new heartthrob of Bravo. And it's my old roommate, Jared Haven. The ladies of Bravo are just dying over his jawline. And I've been like, I used to have a coffee with that jawline every morning. Where have you been the last two decades? It's kind of fun to see Bravo discover Jared Haben.

Starting point is 00:03:35 Right. I love that he's like this unassuming like coffee shop running. Like it's very much giving a hallmark. their situation. Yes, she moves to Rhode Island for him in this group of women now that she, you know, she really is, Ashley really is like the POV. Oh yeah, entrance into the show and I couldn't be happier. I don't know what Ashley's role is going to be on this season. I don't think she's one for polyamory. You know. No, she's not going to swing. When, like Ashley's like my sister. Like Jared, you know, like I've known these are some of my closest friends. And when they were talking about

Starting point is 00:04:10 like who hears had a threesome. Like had Ashley raised her hand in that moment, that would have been as if I was watching a TV show with like my little sister admitting that she, thank God she didn't. She did not raise her hand. I think, yeah, I think Ashley is going to be the perfect talking head for this group.

Starting point is 00:04:33 Like she is a professional narrator from years of experience from the Bachelor franchise. But we'll get into all that later this episode when Cynthia and Miguel join us. But we, I obviously want to get into Sarah, I want to get into your Scamanda take. I don't know if you guys have watched the reunion for Age of Attraction.

Starting point is 00:04:50 It is out, it is streaming, everyone is talking about. And the Age of Attraction cast, they are doing their work in trying to keep the drama continuing when it comes to the Age of Attraction reunion. I got to say, like, I'm a bit surprised.

Starting point is 00:05:04 Most people are Team John versus, and when it comes to the John and Teresa, I did not see that coming. I wonder what people think about that. I would love, Mary, if you could, just kind of give a synopsis of what maybe the fans are saying between John and Teresa. Yeah, so I think a lot of what the fans are reacting to

Starting point is 00:05:22 is their team. John, sometimes, in my opinion, because I think people don't necessarily want to take the side of, like, a woman in that situation. It's kind of what it reads to me a little bit. That's just my opinion. I think it boils down to the text, the texter.

Starting point is 00:05:39 voice memo. I forget what it was that Trice sent John. Yeah, I think that, you know, it was a very charged, highly emotional moment and I think people probably read that as like a little bit manipulative, I guess, but I don't know. And I think maybe also because of the I think in discussions

Starting point is 00:05:57 about these age gap relationships, at least from what I've seen online, I think a lot of people tend to be harder on the older person in that dynamic. That's what I was wondering. Regardless of it, that's fair. It seems that that seems to be the case. that there doesn't seem to be a lot of space. We're not holding space for the older people in these, like, relationships.

Starting point is 00:06:17 It's almost like, I don't know. It's like John's the younger person and Teresa should know better or something. But it's also like John's a full adult man. And it's Teresa's first time living too. Yeah. Just because she's older than him doesn't mean she's going to be some bearer of all wisdom in relationships and do everything perfect. Like, I think that's a very unfair standard to hold on her.

Starting point is 00:06:42 What do you think, sweetheart? Well, he's in the club flirting it up with Leah, so, you know. I don't know if he was flirting up. I think the age of attraction cast has a contact at TMZ. They were, was it horrible? Who was on a, they were on a. Leah, Chris and Jorge did the TMZ bus tour. After Dark.

Starting point is 00:06:59 That's an interesting group. Leah, Chris and Jorge? Mm-hmm. Fences are mended between Chris and Leah. Chris and Leah, I think, are tight. I don't think there's anything going on between Leah. John. At the reunion, Leah was sitting a mile, like was sitting next to John, but there was a whole ocean between the two of them. And then there was something Leah wanted to get into that we

Starting point is 00:07:18 didn't get into. It had something to do with this pact or when they mentioned Instagram shenanigans. I think they were clear in the air, I think is what you saw is. I think that was a conversation of them clear in the air. I don't think there's anything going on. But maybe not. Maybe I'll be surprised. That would be what. Who's to say? Yeah. I don't know. And then, What was this recent report about Derek and... Derek and Angel, which is who I was referring to when I asked him about it on the reunion. He did DM me and said he might have to come back and clear the air. Okay.

Starting point is 00:07:50 So if you haven't watched the reunion yet, be sure to do that. You can listen to it or most people and rightfully are watching. It is available now on YouTube. So get into the debate on whose side you are on. It is out as available. All right, Sarah. You've been watching Summer House since season one. you are our official, unofficial summer house historian. When this news broke, you were traveling,

Starting point is 00:08:14 so I didn't get to talk with you. But when did you realize it was real? Before the statement, the statement? It took this statement. I was in complete denial because I mean, everything that we were hearing beforehand was all hearsay, rumors, leaked, spotted, whatever, but like nothing with concrete evidence, no photos. A video of her wiping something off of his mouth as much as I was like, girl, I would never do that for a guy friend of mine that I am not sleeping with. However, Summer House, they all kind of have weird dynamics where they're very touchy, very close and sober. So it's just like, okay, maybe this is just the dynamic of their friendship. When they put out that black, screen, white text, I lost my mind. I just like, I still remember

Starting point is 00:08:56 just the chills that I got because I was just like, it was a douche pimples. Like, I'm just like, you didn't address any of like the things that mattered in this whole thing. And it's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. We're friends, but we don't know how we fell into it. Like, girl, you were sneaking around for however many months made this conscious decision. And then all of a sudden I'm supposed to be like, oh my God, I feel so bad for her because I can't believe she got caught. Like, no, I don't feel bad for you at all. I think this is the dumbest decision that both of them made. They both are on their highest arcs of their seasons of the series. And then it's like you both just kamikaze. That's so fast. I don't even know. And like West is out laying out, listening to music

Starting point is 00:09:34 vacationing, living his best life, gaining followers. You've got Kyle doing interviews on the street. I'm just like, why are we not picking up cameras? But at the same time, this reunion is going to be insane because it's going to be the first time that they've all been in the same room together since this broke. And I'm like, thank God, best reunion to come. Is that rumor true that Andy will be sitting down with West Amanda and Sierra for the reunion individually? It's not like in a fit, like Bravo hasn't announced it. I think a lot of people are just kind of assuming that. that it's going to happen, all la Scandival. Yeah, because I definitely reunion-wise, I don't think we can unpack this all by putting

Starting point is 00:10:11 everyone in a room and having everyone yell at each other. I do want to hear. I want to hear Sierra's version. I want to hear Amanda's version. I want to hear Wes's version. I want to hear the different stories. How similar do you think West and Amanda's versions are going to be? Oh, I honestly think we're about to hear three very different versions because, I mean,

Starting point is 00:10:30 also obviously things are coming out saying that him and Sierra were to, within the last like month, month and a half. Plus you have the Super Bowl stuff. You know, Dave Portnoy said that he knew about their affair back then, but he was at the Super Bowl with Sierra. So I'm like, and then you have these other women coming out. Are we calling it an affair? I would be shocked if it wasn't from rewatching this season.

Starting point is 00:10:53 You're prepared to say that Amanda was cheating on Kyle or speculate? I think there might have been some overlap. I think it takes a lot for somebody to leave. Amanda didn't give that she was going to be leaving that. marriage anytime soon. And the only thing that I could think that would promote her to move to get out of it would be with somebody else. Okay. I missed you. That's what I'm saying. And I'm like, if I'm wrong, I will apologize. But I'm just saying that I'm just like the timeline doesn't make sense. The shit that we're seeing, rewatching Summer House. And think about it. If this didn't come out, we would have just watched this season of Summerhouse like it was just another normal season.

Starting point is 00:11:27 You know what I mean? And then it's like this stuff comes out. Then people go back and you're looking at these scenes and looking at the intimacy, how close they're sitting next to each other, how they're joking calling Kyle her boyfriend. Like, why is that a funny joke? I was literally about to make a West and Sierra a talk, talk Charlie XEX Trois of on remix fan cam. Like, that's the level of Dululu I was on watching this season. So it's insane to know. Right? And then rewatching scenes between West and Sierra,

Starting point is 00:11:51 like now it just feels icky. Have we figured out what the whole sock thing was in the bathroom? Like he grabbed a sock. He put it in his pants and he came out and saw Kyle and then acted like he was like, He was like, Carl, you need to go check on her and like pulled the sock out of his pants. So what I've been seeing about that is that that was like a hot mic moment so that he used that to cover the mic. This is all speculation because all I've seen is like Daddy Andy is not going to be happy about this.

Starting point is 00:12:20 And a lot of people are taking that scene, removing the background audio, enhancing the microphone audio. The geek squad. The geek squad. They slowed it down. It sounds like he calls her baby. Oh my God. What if they reverse it? This is just like when people thought Paul McCutney died. I swear to God, I heard a kiss in there, too. Like, I don't know. So that's where I'm just like, I would think that the only thing that he would know is that he was about to say something inappropriate, tried to make sure that the mic was covered as much as possible, you know, because he's not going to need a sock for anything else. Well, on Thursday's episode, I mentioned that I had heard that the receipts exist. And that's all that's all I was comfortable saying at the time. And then that these alleged receipts that exist were going to be shown to Andy and. it may or may not be brought up at the reunion.

Starting point is 00:13:06 Between then and now, TMZ came out with a story. Mary, do you have that story? Yeah, so some are, so basically it came out that sources close to the situation tell TMZ that Sierra obtained a video, allegedly showing Amanda and West being intimate in his apartment, something that left her upset. We're told neither Amanda nor West knew they were being recorded. One source tells us Amanda sent Sierra a text on Monday afternoon saying she never meant to hurt her.

Starting point is 00:13:32 were told Amanda also said she wanted to sort out her feelings about West before discussing the romance with her friend. I mean, I don't know if this obviously is true or not. Can you imagine being the like building across from where West Wilson lives? And he has no, I mean, every time his blinds are open, he's just like being watched and recorded and the like. Do we think that's what it is? How else are there a video of them being intimate? Well, there's, I mean, there's so many rumors about this alleged video going on. Did someone hire a PI? I heard a voice note from a friend, allegedly, a friend of Hannah that was retelling the whole

Starting point is 00:14:14 story and said that Sierra was the one that hired a PI, but that the PI kind of came up short. Somebody who is a blogger obtained said video, I don't know if they were the one that took the video, and that Sierra had reached out to them asking for the video to be sent to her, and that the person was like, no, because of legal reasons or whatever. So then after the PI failed, that Sierra reached out to the person and said, can we meet up so I can at least see the video? And that's how she saw what happened between Amanda and West. If that's true, what do we, I mean, hiring a PI feels like some of the most, like,

Starting point is 00:14:49 rich person drama I've ever. Yeah. It seems like, I know it's like a thing, but it's just like it's something you only see in movies, in TV shows. It also feels like you don't need a PI because you. you have the entire internet behind you who is all FBI agents. We're all private investigators. Like we all know more than whoever this like 50 year old man that you would have hired

Starting point is 00:15:13 would have been able to like tail Amanda and find out where she's going and what she's doing. Like the internet knows more than that man. And so I do feel like that would have been a waste of money. But it would be crazy if one got hired. Is that, am I the only one who thinks that? I agree. But I feel like maybe she didn't think the internet would be internet. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:15:34 But also it begs the question, is this is this video, this supposed video? It's not right. It doesn't seem okay. It just seems like questionable that this video exists, period. Exists. Like it seems like maybe not okay for this video to have been recorded. Then there's layers there. And it kind of makes me wonder, I really want to know how this all went down in terms of

Starting point is 00:15:59 how did this video get recorded if this video exists? Who, then how was this video presented to the people involved? Like, was he reached out to by a blogger? Did that same person then let West and Amanda know this video exists? Because to me, everyone's talking about this like joint PR statement, which was bonkers, right? Like the fact that Amanda and West put out this joint statement together. Not even confirming a relationship. Maybe it was very vague, right?

Starting point is 00:16:28 A lot of people have problems with the fact that it didn't like address Sierra. Yeah. Which is like makes a lot of sense. But at the same time, I think it's a lose lose. Because if they put it in like, if they like, if they put out a statement and talked about like we're, it almost would have looked really bad if they would have like assumed that Sierra would be bothered by it. I mean, I think she is bothered by it and rightfully so. But you know what I'm saying? It's just like it would be a kind of almost a.

Starting point is 00:16:56 And by the way, we're sorry, Sierra. like if in a joint statement, they would have... It definitely would have felt disingenuous for sure. Yeah. Like it just would have been... Your statement talking about how you found this connection between the two of you. And like, there's just no right way. There's a lose, lose. Yeah, I agree with that.

Starting point is 00:17:12 But I do think they should have that much. Yeah, when you have the like chat GPT apology where it's just kind of like keep everything vague, nothing specific, but then like give us our privacy. Yeah. Yeah, it's always going to come off wrong. If it was like a heartfelt apology, because I've seen somewhere, I'm like, you know, maybe they use pink, background white text. I don't know. But like they changed up the color scheme at

Starting point is 00:17:33 least. And somehow it affects something. No, but like I've seen a heartfelt apologies on on people's Instagram stories where I'm like, okay, I believe that they're genuinely sorry. Where I'm like, the way that these two people were sneaking around, then you go back into their Instagram post and it's like she's got best day ever by West Wilson and like going back to friends is like the song of it. And it's like West all over. Like if I were Sierra and that's one of my best friends, I'd be like, girl, do you not have anybody else you can hang out with besides like my ex fling? Yeah. Like, it's just fucking weird.

Starting point is 00:18:05 Also, you're watching the two of them, even if it's kind of for TV reconnect. You know what I mean? Like, even at the end of the day, if the West and Sierra thing did end up being something they were kind of both leaning into for a storyline, which it doesn't seem like it if they were hooking up again. But let's say, for argument's sake that it was and it was not real. Still, she's fucking ruining her storyline. That's a shitty coworker move.

Starting point is 00:18:27 So it's like either she's a shitty friend, a shitty co-worker, or both. I'm like both. Yeah, she's definitely a shitty friend behavior. I just think when this video came out, like, I honestly think it's all, I think this is all centered around this video because this video came out and I think Amanda and West panicked because now there's like evidence of them being together. You know what I'm saying? Like it went from all these rumors, rumors, rumors, rumors.

Starting point is 00:18:54 We are all thinking some sort of like bad April Fool. joke and then and then all of a sudden like this weird joint statement and I feel like a lot comes down to this I think this video played a big role I also think that like their bubble got popped because what I heard not confirmed fully that Sierra saw that Amanda was at West's house and like find my friends and that she texted her being like are you guys just friends or what's going on and that Amanda took 15 hours to respond and then said just friends and that Sierra responded while you can still have sex with your friend or something like that. And then like a day or so later was when Amanda was like, I'm sorry like it's actually something serious. So I'm like it's just giving that like you guys were living in your own little fantasy world of this affair, this relationship, this situation, whatever you want to call it. And then once it got real was when people started to talk about it, start piecing things together and then not dropping it. And then for two weeks they're being consistently questioned about it. Then I'm like, yeah, then for the fact that there's an actual video, like, it's like you guys either have to come forward

Starting point is 00:20:01 or something else is going to get released not within your own narrative. But I just don't know why this would be the narrative that they chose. I don't think they chose it as much as it was a panicked response. And then they got some bad advice from whatever publicists they decided to work with. Did you see Lindsay's story that she was like their new publicist is Alex from Love is Blind? Yeah. You know what I've learned about publicists? It's just like you can when stuff like this.

Starting point is 00:20:27 happens, the average publicist is not in crisis PR. They're typically not well versed in crisis PR. I don't, it's been my experience. And usually when this stuff happens, there's just, you get on these phone calls and there's just a lot of guessing. A lot of ideas being thrown out. A lot of guesses. Maybe we should do this. Maybe we should do that. And then somehow you get this like, well, let's do this joint statement. But I really think this joint statement was just a crazy reaction to not knowing what the fuck they're supposed to do and things getting out of control. Yeah. I just don't understand why if you're having this tour at a fair that you're trying to keep

Starting point is 00:21:06 hidden, you're wearing his Remy Wolf sweatshirt and all of his fucking clothes all over the place. I mean, I will say that there, I mean, like some of the things that like an Lwood hat, very common, like, very, like, if you're in. Yeah. You know, like some of the stuff, it's like, maybe there's just two of them. And maybe they both bought the same hat. Maybe she saw it on West.

Starting point is 00:21:30 Gifted them all. Maybe Elwood was like, here's a PR package. They got some great hoodies. Shout out to Elwood. I really enjoy their stuff. Good point. Maybe not Elwood.

Starting point is 00:21:41 Maybe the Remi Wolf merch specifically spoke to me. Or I think it's the fact that West did that with the Chicago girl and wore the horse hair tie that she made on Watch What Happens Live. So, like, it's, like, their fashion is, it's really interesting. I wonder what you think about it of, like, the way they're using clothes to almost, like, soft launch these situation ships on TV. I mean, it's giving to me that West has an MO. Yeah. Like, if you're wearing your other girly stylist horse hair tie on Watch What Happens Live, which obviously means you guys have seen each other in the last couple of weeks to exchange that to Amanda and him changing clothes.

Starting point is 00:22:20 Like, I'm just like, it just seems like that's, like, what he's into. But I'm, mm-hmm. Also her saying like the reason that she was able to come back this season was like because of West and Jessie. Who's Sierra Amanda? Amanda. And like how they've been like so supportive of her or something. And it's like that's those two guys are why you feel like so comfortable coming back. That's what I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:22:42 She has not decentered men. Yeah. She likes the attention and the flirtation because like all I've seen is the commentary on Sierra and how she was so. how she couldn't have gotten through this summer without her. And I'm just like, what a bold statement to say after the season when this is how you're moving. Well, I think it's a great time to bring in Rebecca Jennings from New York Magazine, who is also covering the story a lot more to discuss. I want to, I am curious here as we discuss this with Rebecca.

Starting point is 00:23:10 Are we like to me, I think criticizing Amanda and West, by all means, we, they deserve criticism. Amanda, but I'm curious for the audience. Can we criticize Amanda and West without condemning them or is this full condemning? You know, are we? I think the issue is, is no one's condemning West. I think some people, I mean, we are. He's gained over 50,000 followers because of this. Well, because like, again, she's losing brand deals is nuts.

Starting point is 00:23:40 No, I think it, yeah, it is nuts. And I'm curious, because to me, like, it, it, I can make a lot of sense how Amanda, Amanda got to this place. I don't know what actually happened, but I think you can criticize Amanda, rightfully so. I think she was a bad friend to Sierra. I think maybe, you know, my question is, how much does Amanda regret this, if at all? Does she realize the error of her ways? Because I, to me, how this all went down makes a lot of sense. And that's why I think West is, because to me, I want to know how to start. Yeah. Because I think that really, I think that really, really matters. Anyways, we'll get into it. Let's bring on Rebecca. We'll dive deeper into Westgate. I like Westgate. Westgate. Westgate. West Will scam. I like Westgate better.

Starting point is 00:24:26 All right. Let's bring, let's bring on Rebecca. Before we dive into it, don't forget that all episodes of Vile Files Plus are now ad-free. In addition to that, we have our reality recap deep dyes. We'll certainly be diving deep. All things. Summerhouse scandal. The Bachelorette scandal, Mormon wives. All of that will be diving deep into this week. Plus get your update special is your favorite update. from your favorite Ask Nick episodes, as well as your pop extra roundup where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics we didn't get to talk about on reality recap. Go to Valphalz.com to sign up. You'll be glad that you did. Do not miss out. Monarch is an all-in-one personal finance tool designed to make your life easier. It brings your entire financial life budgeting, accounts, and investments. Networth and future planning together in one dashboard on your phone or laptop. Feel aware and in control of your finances this year and get 50% off your Monarch subscription with code V-I-A-L.

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Starting point is 00:27:23 Rebecca, welcome to the show. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. We're so excited to have you. Before we start, can you give our audience just a little bit background on yourself? Obviously, you write for New York Magazine. You seem very entrenched to all things pop culture, but can you give us a little bit of background about yourself and we'll dive into all things reality TV scandal?

Starting point is 00:27:42 Yeah, basically, I dive really deep on the things we all love, internet culture, influence, influencers reality TV, this wonderful world, we're all in. Well, we love talking about it. You love writing about it. We're very, very excited to have you with us. You also recently interviewed Taylor Frankie Paul, correct? I did. Yes, I visited her in Salt Lake City and I was on set for the Bachelorette in November. Okay. Well, we'll definitely want to dive into that as well, but we are talking, are you calling it's commando? I think we came up with Westgate or maybe, man, did you come up with that? The internet. And the internet did? Okay. I like Westgate, but what are you calling it, I mean, Westgate, I feel like, is more journalistic. You know, it references Watergate, which is always fun. But Scamanda, I think, rolls off the tongue a little better. I think people are complaining it to Scandival. So I get it. But, you know, Westgate is, you know, I would say the more accurate term. Well, it also like, I mean, one, you know, I do think it's interesting whose name is represented in the scandal, either West or Amanda. I think a lot of people want it to be Amanda because I think the internet seems to be more frustrated at Amanda than West.

Starting point is 00:28:47 If for no other reason, like, I think, I don't know where you stand, Rebecca, but I think everyone in this room feels like West, he's not getting the right amount of criticism and Amanda seems to be getting it more. But it makes sense to me just under the lens of, I think we all agree that Sierra is the one we have the most empathy for. She's the person who's been the most victimized by the story. And I think we all just assume that, well, West deserves a lot of criticism and he clearly didn't consider Sears feelings, but that Sears is probably more upset at Amanda and that friendship. And that's the big betrayal. So therefore, that's what we're focusing on. And whether it's right or wrong, it's not that we're giving West a pass, but that seems to be where most of the energy is going because it's like we're not surprised by Wes's behavior. We're most surprised by Amanda's ability. ability to betray her friend Sierra. Yeah, I think that as viewers of the show, we were always much more like shipping their friendship versus shipping Weston Sierra. I think most viewers were like, yeah, like, we want Sierra to have like a great

Starting point is 00:29:57 relationship with this guy who seems fun and cool. But I think over the course of, I think, five years now it's been the friendships between the women have always been sort of like the dominant relationships of the show, the ones that we can actually root for. And I think that as viewers, viewers, I think, feel more betrayed by that than by, like, a man on Bravo doing something shitty, like, tale as old as time. Like, we've seen that a million times. For sure, for sure. But it's interesting because, like, now you have, like, fans wanting to argue, is this Scandival?

Starting point is 00:30:26 Is this behavior? Like, where does this rank in the history of bad behavior of Bravo celebrities? And, like, to your point, objectively speaking, while this is, like, a big story and, like, there's certainly a lot to unpack and there's so many layers. when you actually look at what happened, when you compare it to, say, Jacks Taylor or whatever, you know, there's a lot of bad behavior in Bravo, like sometimes illegal behavior, sometimes, you know, bullying and like some really nasty stuff. And when you compare it to that, you're like, yeah, this is juicy, but like, you know, there are some other really bad stuff going on, which is just kind of fascinating.

Starting point is 00:31:05 Well, I am curious, there's so much rumors going on now. we, TMZ reported about this video. I had heard before TMZ reported about this video that receipts did exist and that we're going to be shown to Andy. Have you heard anything that you can confirm or are you just like us kind of just seeing a bunch of rumors that we don't know what is and isn't true? Yeah. I mean, I think we're all in this sort of like media mush pile where it's like what is true, what isn't right now. I tried to get tea. I went to the summer house watch party at soft bar last Tuesday.

Starting point is 00:31:37 Carl was not there. He was traveling. I asked the bartenders. I was like, they were like, we don't watch the show. And also our management told us to not talk about this. I was like, okay, fair. So I achieved zero T. But I too am in the depths of the Reddit master threads with everyone else trying to figure it out. And I would love, you know, some clarity. Well, I had heard there was a video and then TMZ, you know, from second, third hand, you know, from a couple people. And then TMS he reported on it. So I think there's got to be something there. And to me, I'm curious about like what's, like, where did it go from being a rumor that Amanda and West were clearly denying to all their friends to being essentially, it seems like, I don't want to say forced, but like what caused this joint statement? It seemed to be something that went from rumors to like, what caused them to hire like a PR

Starting point is 00:32:30 team together and put out the statement. And it makes a lot of sense that this alleged video might exist. And that's what maybe perpetuated them to like make this aggressive move that we all are kind of confused by. It's like, are you together? Are you not together? Like what is the statement? Yeah, they didn't even confirm a relationship. It was a connection, which I think is really interesting. But I think like, I don't know. I know a lot of people were really surprised when they confirmed it. But also like, as a journalist, like when there are rumors like to that degree, like it's pretty much always true. Like it just is like so many people aren't going to say the same thing unless they're.

Starting point is 00:33:04 And especially like having video or photographic evidence of something that just doesn't happen unless there's something there. And so I was never super surprised by it, but I was surprised by that statement, which did seem really wishy-washy. It didn't really make sense to me. And it very much is like more to come, but also from what we're hearing about West dating other women and like them not even confirming that it is a relationship rather than doing the easy thing, which is just maybe making like a statement or talking to Sierra behind the same. scenes and being like it was a drunken hookup. We were in a situation ship and it's over and we were really sorry and said it was just like, well, yes, and dot, dot, dot. And we don't know.

Starting point is 00:33:45 And yeah, it was, it was crazy. It's like, I'm curious that what you think as someone who's been in front of the cameras about that statement. Like, what would ever possess someone like you to put out something like that? Shear panic. Like not knowing. No, seriously. And I thought so much about this because like, listen.

Starting point is 00:34:02 And, you know, it's like the internet. I think as we follow this story, we have to recognize that as much as we condemn this, we all love the drama. And I think there's these, it's like, well, it can't be true. It can't be true. There's a part of us that all are secretly, like, hoping it's true because it's drama that's outside of our own lives. Amanda was a bad friend of Sierra. There's no debate there, right? But I think a lot of people are asking, like, how could this happen? To me, I'm not shocked this happened for, like, a lot of reasons. Like, there's a human side in the, there's a TV side. I think from the human side, if we're being honest, we can all relate to

Starting point is 00:34:38 knowing what it's like to be in a relationship for a long time and then getting out of that relationship and feeling very confused about what our future holds, like what that dating landscape is like. You have this group of friends that are very close, right? They operate very high school like, you know, we see old clips of this, like, are they friends? Are they having sex? I don't know what's going on. Like, I wouldn't act that way around my friend. And there's like this closeness there. And then like I have empathy for Amanda, not because it's not like, oh, that doesn't make her not a bad friend.

Starting point is 00:35:11 It's just more, she's married to this guy for 10 years, right? We've broken down this relationship at nauseam. She's had Kyle's back, you know, and all of a sudden she's single for the first time in 10 years. And I can imagine Amanda being very confused about like her dating life. Meanwhile, her ex-husband is now a DJ. And he's out there, clubbing. And I imagine it's probably pretty easy for Kyle to meet women, you know, and I'm pretty sure

Starting point is 00:35:38 he's out there. And I bet Kyle has different standards for like what his dating life's going like for the next six months. He might be open to the casual hookup here or there while he's DJing. And then you have Amanda who's probably not into that, right? And then she has the comfort of this guy named West, who's this very affable, very flirty. You know, there's this security there. There's this friendship there. And it doesn't. doesn't make it okay, but I think we all can relate to that feeling of like, oh, this guy's nice to me. And then says, and I'm thinking, okay, is Amanda really going to jump on Hinge? You know what I'm saying? Is Amanda going to start going on dating apps? I bet there's a lot

Starting point is 00:36:17 of nervousness of like, oh, I'm this kind of famous person and this confusion. So she's not out there dating. And then there's this guy named West. That's a very relatable story. Am I making any sense or no? You're making sense. It's just kind of like he's not like this guy West, though. He's this guy, West, that's been actively in a situation, relationship, on and off with one of her best friends. Sure. Who she sat in a bed and listened to cry to about, try and figure out the situation, make jokes about their behavior over the summer.

Starting point is 00:36:46 And then for me, too, like, where I'm like, you're saying your biggest issue with Kyle is the drinking, the partying, the going out. And then you get done with Kyle. And the first person you date is somebody who likes to party, drink and go out and not commit. Yeah. I don't think, I think there's, to all your points, I think we can easily pick. it all apart of why it was a fullest decision. She clearly wasn't thinking clearly. You know what I'm saying? Like you can see how they, I mean, clearly they were hanging out a ton. They were like, there's so

Starting point is 00:37:12 many videos of them like walking the streets of New York, whether it's in big groups or on like these influencer trips together. And like you can see where maybe they're out. They're a little drunk. He's like, just come back to my place. Like, and she's like, this is my friend. I'm just like, when we're all this like, I can't believe this happened. I just think there are, you can connect dots to be like, I mean, I can see how it happened. It doesn't make it up. You know what I'm saying? Well, it's also just like cheating happens.

Starting point is 00:37:39 Not that there was technically any cheating going on, but it's like this stuff happens in friend groups all the time. Like people who are not on reality TV. And so it's just like, but I think that's why the fans are so upset over this because like people see themselves and people see that they could be on one end of this situation at some point in their lives and how betrayed they would feel because like they do feel like they know these people. And so it's like, yes, it's.

Starting point is 00:38:02 can happen and it's probably more common than like anyone wants to admit, but like it's seeing it like this with these characters that we've known for a decade is just like really troubling, I think, for a lot of people's sense of like peace and who they are. I think you nailed it, Rebecca. I think why we're so cut up in the story is because how relatable it is for all of us. You know, we might not have done exactly this, right? But throughout our lives, these relationship dynamics and friends and betrayals and like the mental gymnastics we do to convince ourselves.

Starting point is 00:38:35 Like, I would be curious what Amanda's like, how she got there. Like, I'm sure she did some kind of mental gymnastics to convince herself that what she was doing wasn't as bad as we all feel as it is, right? It's just like, well, you know, they weren't ever really dating. I don't know. But I think it's a friendship dynamic that is very relatable. And unlike the Taylor Frankie Paul and Mormon wives of it all, which is like, again, very heavy.

Starting point is 00:39:04 And we're talking about some really bad behavior, not condoning what Amanda and West did, is that like this is all very relatable and this happens all the time. And, you know, like while we're like freaking out about this scandal, we have Carl and Lindsay doing Uber E-Campaigns already, you know, kind of-

Starting point is 00:39:25 Carl's a mess. Carl's a mess. And like monetizing this drama already. So it's kind of like to say, no one died. so to speak. You know, it's just like, it's something we can all like get activated using the words of Lindsey Hubbard and get really kind of righteous about like what side we're on and I would never do that. And oh my God, fuck any friend who would do that. But like, I think it's easy for us to talk about it because

Starting point is 00:39:46 we've all been wrapped up in some kind of relationship drama that has hints of this drama that we're talking about. Right. Exactly. And I think like there has been such a shift in fandums of reality TV shows, like, I would say, like, post-pandemic fandom in general has gotten really, like, up to a 10, like, the way that Love Island now has to put, like, hey, don't, like, send death threats to our cast. Like, every time it airs, I think a similar thing happens on Bravo, where it's like, instead of being entertained by something, by drama that in the way that maybe we used to 10, 20 years ago, now we want, like, justice and we want to see the justice. And we expect that the people are looking at what we say on social media and reacting to it. And then, like, we'll come correct at the next meeting. And it's just a completely different way of interacting with reality television, I think. Yeah, you have some people out there suggesting that Amanda and Wes, they should basically be exiled from reality TV. They should never get another campaign ever again. They should be banished from polite society is essentially like what a lot of people online are suggesting. I'm curious, Sierra, or it's just for the house, if this went to court and you were the judge, you know, like you got to decide Amanda's penalty.

Starting point is 00:40:57 Like, what is Amanda's penalty for this crime? What would it be? And just know that the baseline is Amanda, she's no longer friends with Sierra. She's lost that friend. She's lost probably friends with Paige, maybe Hannah, which to me, it's just like losing a friend is a, that's a loss. Like, you know, that's a real loss that Amanda now has to face. She is seen differently by her fans.

Starting point is 00:41:20 She's probably lost some money. I would say off the bat. She lost a brand deal. She's lost 100 grand, easy. Some kind of campaign that might have worked with her in the next six months will probably just work with someone else. You know, so let's say as of now, she's already lost 100K, three best friends, and she's criticized by Bravo as, you know, a bad friend, a pick me, whatever you, you know, you are judge and jury. You get to decide any further punishment. What is Amanda's punishment in addition to what she's already lost?

Starting point is 00:41:52 Again, and that to your point, like, I don't even know what she's dealing with on her day to day. I kind of feel like this fits, the punishment fits the crime. Like, I don't think that there's anything further that needs to happen. I think you made a terrible decision. You're on a public forefront that everyone has an opinion. Bravo fans take their shows very seriously. So it's like they hate feeling bamboozled. They feel like you fooled them.

Starting point is 00:42:15 So I'm like, I feel like she's already gotten enough as it is because people just aren't going to be fucking with her anymore. she's losing money. I don't think that there's anything further that she needs to deal with. I just think that she needs, I don't know, therapy. Yeah. I mean, the punishment idea is an interesting concept because it's like, I don't know, Rebecca, I'm thinking about what you said about how back. I'm thinking about Jersey Shore, right?

Starting point is 00:42:40 I'm thinking about the note and every, all of that shit that went down in Jersey Shore. And like, I just sat and watched that when I was like eight and I was like, give me more. And I still kind of feel that way. And yeah, obviously I think people are being hyperbolic online. But I do think that is a lot of what it is. Like I've seen tweets that are like what Zoran Mamdani's plan to get West and Amanda out of New York City. Like that's obviously a joke. And it's funny.

Starting point is 00:43:06 So it's like I think her quote unquote punishment is getting roasted online, which is like, okay, that's not that bad. It's going to die down. Somebody else is going to do something stupid and it'll never exist again. but I'm just like, yeah, for the moment, unfortunately, you made a terrible decision and an extended choice. She's also a grown-ass adult. So it's kind of like, unfortunately, when you do shitty, shady things and it comes to the forefront, not by your own mouth, then you're going to have to deal with everybody coming up with stories and all that stuff. If you want to set it straight by all means, I'm sure we'll see that at the reunion. But I don't think that there's anything further that needs to happen to her.

Starting point is 00:43:44 Okay. Yeah, and I wonder if you guys think, if it's like, if it's a, if it's a. a good thing or a bad thing that we hold reality TV stars to kind of this like moral standard that we have ourselves as far as like what reality TV is for. I think it's a bad thing because whenever the second that they're not giving us this type of stuff, Beverly Hills, we're like, this is boring, this is trash, we're not watching, like come on, do something. Like let's see some action. Let's see some drama. And then the second that there is drama, we're like, oh my God, ew, how could you? You're a terrible person. So it's like, you know, you can't hold reality TV.

Starting point is 00:44:19 starts to the same standard. Now, Rebecca, how would you feel if we saw West and Amanda on next season of Traders? I mean, I think there should be one million seasons of the traders and they should just have like a rotating cast like all the time, always be filming. So yes, put them on the Traders. Always put people on the traders. I agree. And I think anyone out there who thinks they shouldn't be given this opportunity, how do you

Starting point is 00:44:45 justify Tom Sandoval getting an opportunity on Traders if, you know what I'm Like, if you can put Tom Sandoval on Traders, West and Amanda certainly does... And he was one of the best parts of that season. Yeah. I mean, if nothing else, you can't fire them from reality TV. Rebecca, do you think either of them will come back to next season of Summer House? Or, like, are we going to see this group in the city or on Summer House? I mean, I definitely think we know we'll see them in the city.

Starting point is 00:45:15 And I think that'll be a really interesting watch because it was filmed last fall. But I also think that I really do think that Ariana Maddo sort of broke reality TV when she refused to film with Tom any longer than she needed to for that season of Vanderpump. I think it really like changed, like, changed the power dynamic of like stars to production, like, or from production to the stars. Like if Sierra doesn't want to film anymore, like that, like people are talking about this could spell the end of Summer House as we know it. And I think it very much could. And it completely depends on the cast. And I think a lot of stars now are realizing, like, they don't have to, like, Paige leaving Summer House, too. It's like, she was like, I don't want to be part of this anymore.

Starting point is 00:45:52 She's still very famous. Like, Sierra can, all of them, if they want to, can walk away from the show and be even more famous than they were before. Like, they are not beholden to it. So I think it really depends on, like, what they want to do. Do you think all of them could or do you think just Sierra could make that call right now? I mean, as we know, there's, like, a very tried and true path to, like, going from villain to back again. And, like, I think, you know, people have tried. And I just think it's, like, impossible to plan out the arc of someone's career

Starting point is 00:46:21 based on, like, when we're in this sort of, like, weeks-long maelstrom of drama around two people. I think it's not a matter of if when. Sierra will be given at least one, if not many, opportunities to host a show of some kind. If you're Peacock, I'm locking up that contract as fast as possible. And if I'm a different streamer, I'm calling Sierra's people. Like I think Sierra is going to get whatever she wants. I hope that we see her on the red carpet of the Met Gala next to Michael B. Jordan. Apparently Rihanna was maybe playing matchmaker there as well.

Starting point is 00:46:54 Like I think Sierra should and we'll get her flowers. But yeah, I also think I don't know if anyone else in the story might have that power to do that. I think we all, wherever Sierra goes next, I think she will have plenty of people of support her. And I think, yeah, I think she's going to be hosting some kind of show soon. Which can you imagine getting that DM from Rihanna? That's like, hey, babe, I'm Team Sierra. Who are you interested in in this world? Let me hook you up. Well, you know what's crazy about that is because so when I interviewed the Summer House cast last February, 2005, Amanda told me that Rihanna had DM'd her being like, you're my favorite on the cast, like years ago. And that's why, like, when I saw that news, I was like, oh, no. Like, you lost Rihanna. She was your girl. Yeah. I think. think really to go back to the punishment thing riana unfollowing you is maybe like that's enough you're her favorite yeah to be to for riana she's too busy for the album she's focused on her kids she has just enough time to tell amanda the tula you're not shit like that's awesome and i do think

Starting point is 00:48:00 that's beautiful sorry yeah the most fascinating thing about the story that i'm interested in is where do amanda and west stand and i pretty the Amanda and West breakup, so to speak. And I don't mean like break up like their relationship because I don't know if they're in one. I think as things come out, I think their stories aren't gonna line up. And I think we'll see the breakup of like the he said, she said

Starting point is 00:48:25 of Amanda and West. And I feel like at that point, I think people will start having again, like it's not forgiving what Amanda did and it's understanding that she may never be friends with Sierra and Paige and that group again. But I do think, I just think I get the position she was in and I have empathy for her. It doesn't make it okay,

Starting point is 00:48:48 but I just, I know how alone you can feel in this reality TV space. And like when you're, when your core group of friends, like when you lose those and you have no one else, and I just feel like that's all this group had is each other. And I think it's as hard to make friends outside, you know, of these spaces. And you don't know who to trust, you know? And I just, it's, just makes a lot of sense to me. It doesn't make it okay, but I do understand how she could have got there. We're West. I just feel like, this is a guy who's going on watch When Happens Live, wearing the tie of some other girl who is hooking up with. Like, this is, he didn't give a fuck. You know, he wasn't worried at all. Like, it doesn't seem like he was like, he was just kind of

Starting point is 00:49:31 operating like he could kind of get away with anything and was up until this point. I feel like with that, I don't know. I've been going back and forth. I think the empathy I do have for Amanda is waning a bit the more I think about it because it's like, you know exactly who West Wilson is. You have been, you watched him do that to Sierra. You watched him do all of these things. You watch him fuck around. You know that. You're an adult woman making your own choice. Also, like, and I say this as it's very easy to not hook up with someone. Like it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty easy even when you're in an emotional spot i don't know but i i hear you i've been saying that about west for a long time now but if you're gonna say you knew who west wilson was you knew who what

Starting point is 00:50:19 he was all about you know i'm just yeah but she didn't know that he was like fucking around with amanda no i i think she knew that and still did it again the amanda betraying sierra is is is the thing but i'm saying if you're just like what was amanda thinking when it came to west as it relates to compared to kyle again we've all been dupy's by people. We've all convinced ourselves that this person's going to be different from us. We want to believe in people. I'm sure West had a million excuses as to why no one understands him and why he gets a bad rep as a fuck boy to a man. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not that like we've all been in these conversations with people we talk to and it, you know, when we're talking to them, we always hear

Starting point is 00:50:58 their version and we want to believe them. You know, I just, but if we're going to say Amanda should have known better because of what Wes represents, I just can't we say the same thing about Sierra? No? Is that off limits? I don't agree just because I'm like that they have a one-on-one dynamic. You know what I mean? So it's not like she was watching West with somebody else and being like, oh, man, it'll be different with me this time where I feel like Amanda thinks it would be different with her this time. And again, I just think that West being able to commit to a still married woman is not shocking to me because there is no real commitment. Do we suspect that this relationship between Wes and Amanda was going on while she was still married to Kyle? I've seen that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:38 Well, yeah, she technically is still married. But I've definitely seen stuff that, like, this began either during filming or before filming of last season. I have no idea. What do you guys think? I have no information. And even when Kyle was stopped on this street, I don't know if you saw the three-part street interview. But there was a part that he did. Right?

Starting point is 00:51:57 There was a part that where he said, even I'm looking at last summer differently, where I'm like, oh, you feel alone. She's only paying attention to all the guys. During that fight, he said, you've spent more time. She spent more time with you West. then she has with me in the last six months. Like, that's a really interesting statement. Would it matter to y'all if we find out that there was no physical line crossed prior to Kyle and Amanda separation, but there was clearly something, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:52:24 Like a connection, like a friendship. Like, they were really. Well, they've said that much publicly. Sure, but the question is, is how deep did that closeness go, right? Was it them going to each other's house? like talking to one o'clock in the morning having wine holding, you know, like, like an intimacy there, but didn't cross, like they didn't make out, they didn't have sex. No, all of it is inappropriate given the fact that West has fucked over her best friend several

Starting point is 00:52:53 times. And she's still a married woman. And have you seen the clip that Jesse Solomon posted? It's been circulating where it's Amanda and West in the club and they're dancing. And Amanda has West's hand on her chest and is like sinking slowly. down the wall while holding his hand. And it's just like the intimacy between these two people. Like this isn't giving like, oh, he's like a brother to me.

Starting point is 00:53:17 Like it's giving like, um, if you guys weren't here right now, something else would be happening. Yeah, it's also the way West defends Amanda with Kyle. It's just like, West, you've never cared about any of your friends. Three summers. Yeah. Three summers. You've watched Kyle yell at Amanda.

Starting point is 00:53:34 Why this summer? Do you care to get involved? And every summer he's like, I hate. confrontation. I hate, I hate, like, doing this with my friends. I'm not getting involved. I'm not getting involved. And now all of a sudden, he's like, Kyle, you need to apologize. You need to go say sorry. You need to give her a hug. Yeah, I was going to say, Mr. No Commitment all of a sudden wants to give dating and relationship advice. Yeah. Kyle, you got to go talk to your wife. She deserves to be spoken to. Like, why do you know how my wife is deserves to be spoken to? Why are you lecturing me about how to treat my wife? Because you're spending more time with her than I am, which is already red flag fucking weird. And to be clear, do you just want to say Kyle Cook still treated Amanda like shit? I feel like we're all being very nice to Kyle right now, which he did, he got fucked over. But at the same time, brother, you still treated her like shit. And he is doing the only thing he can do right now, which is actually to support Amanda,

Starting point is 00:54:27 which is definitely, I think, the right thing to do. But I will say that like if a lot of this stuff comes to be that like she was seeing West an overlap, and whatnot, then I'm like, I actually do have a different level of empathy for Kyle because Kyle is being made to look like a crazy person. That's like, my wife doesn't hang out with me. My wife doesn't want to spend time with me. And we're all like, yeah, well, you chose to DJ and you're running your company into the ground. And there's so many reasons as to how this is your fault. But if the actual emotional distance is because Amanda, Amanda has completely checked out and gone elsewhere, then like, yeah, you're watching a child having his little like,

Starting point is 00:55:04 what are those temper tantrum. But I'm like, it's because he doesn't know how to articulate what's going on in their relationship because all of a sudden you went from being there to not being there at all. And so I'm like, I do have a bit of a sympathy if there was an overlap between West and Amanda with Kyle that I'm like, yeah, Kyle, you're not crazy. You're actually picking up on all of the vibes. The fact that she's up at two in the morning when she's never stayed up past 10, 10 p.m., 11 p.m. on other summers. This summer, she's out till 2, 3 in the morning, ready to hang out with all the guys. I could see why Kyle's like, and I'm inside by myself, but you're down to hang out with West and Ben and everybody else, but you don't want to hang out with me. Like if I'm up till 2 in the morning with my partner, I'm hanging out with my partner too or being like, hey, come outside. Like not making a choice to isolate said person.

Starting point is 00:55:48 But if you don't want to fuck with them because you're with your boyfriend, I could see that. Rebecca, what is next do you think for this group? What are some of the storylines, I guess, that you're most excited or anxious to be kind of discussed and talked about? where do you think the cast goes from here? I mean, I think I have the question that everybody has, which is like, what is the timeline? And I really, really, really hope like that the reunion gets into that and questions are answered. But, I mean, I think it's really hard because I don't want what happened to Vanderpump

Starting point is 00:56:17 rules to happen to Summer House. Although I do love some of the new cat. I love, I think Bailey is an amazing addition. I think she's so fun. And I'm like really interested to see like, what's up with her and Carl? And Lindsay can never leave my screen. Like, I need her to be on reality TV for the rest of her. life. And I hope in the city is as messy and fun as we hope it is, but I don't think it will be.

Starting point is 00:56:42 But yeah, I just, I think it's Bravo and this fandom is in a really interesting spot with like where we go from here because like, you're right, it's not as bad as Scandival objectively. We also have a very different expectation of how our reality stars exist. So like we are and like I think with the Taylor-Frank-Paul thing, like we are still drawing those lines about like what's okay and What's not, what's too dark for reality TV and what's not. And what's just fun mess. And we definitely pick and choose. Yeah, for other people comparing it to Scandival, I would say we don't know yet.

Starting point is 00:57:12 I don't think it's going to be Scandival, but I think what made Scandival so big was its longevity. Like for how long it captured our attention. We were talking about it for months, it seemed like, like a half a year. Which I feel like was because the season was still airing. so people were then watching closely of Raquel and Tom, and now we have the same scenario. I mean, this season is layering. Yeah, it could play out.

Starting point is 00:57:39 Like, I think that's the thing. It's like, we don't know how big Westgate or Scamanda is going to be. It just started. I mean, I think what part of, you know, like, I'm old enough to remember Titanic being number one in theaters for like 20 weeks. Like, you know, no one's ever going to match that again because it just held our attention for so long. And that's what made Scandival so big is like it just,

Starting point is 00:58:00 we just never got sick of talking about it. And so I think we just don't know how this story is going to play out because it's still so new. And like, do we find out a PI was hired? Like, if so, that to me is crazy. You know, like, that's the, like, I've never, I only see that in movies and TV shows. Like, if that happened, I want to know every detail. How much did it cost? Who went to who? Like, what did they get? You know, like, I do want to know if Amanda and West have a breakup and who side we take. And if there is an arc for Amanda to like recover from this, what do you think that looks like, Rebecca? Oh my gosh. I think it requires a lot of time and it requires a break, I would say, but I don't know if that's going to happen because we know in the city filmed in the fall,

Starting point is 00:58:48 which means that it will probably air in the summer. So that's going to be another couple months of like press she probably has to do or at least like her faces in the zeitgeist unless like, I mean, I think a way that it could work is, as we all know, like something crazy could happen to someone else or then we sort of all collectively forget, which is probably what will happen. Because that's the way it always happens. So, so yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely a way that she sort of gets her reputation out. But I also think it's, we've never really seen Amanda as the villain. Like, for 10 seasons, she's always been sort of like the victim of Kyle's excesses and like

Starting point is 00:59:25 Kyle's, like the mismatches, like the fans have pretty much always been. on Amanda's side for the most part. And so I think she still has to navigate what that looks like for her as someone who is not really used to being put in that position. Do you think how we feel about Amanda will be mostly dictated by what we come to find out how Sierra feels about this and whatever grace she is willing or not willing to give Amanda? Because I think also, if we're comparing it to Scandival, part of the reason why we felt so strongly is because how strongly Ariana felt. And He was like, I never want to talk to him again. He's dead to me.

Starting point is 01:00:01 Like, I mean, we felt and saw her anger. And I think the audience responded in kind. And I kind of feel like once we start hearing from Sierra, she will dictate the grace or lack thereof that Amanda receives. What do you think about that? Yeah, no, I think that's exactly right. And I think we've seen Sierra have conflicts with people before. And it usually takes her quite a while.

Starting point is 01:00:24 Like, I mean, with West, it's like it's two years after their relationship. last summer, their 2023 relationship, we're still watching this play out that she's only sort of beginning to sort of see him like anew in summer 2025. And so I think with something like this, it will take so long. But obviously, you know, we've seen her have issues with some of the women in the house and now she's friends with. So it's obviously like people are people evolve and people can forgive each other. But like I think it will probably take a long time. And Sierra is is not someone who's not going to like stand up for herself. Yeah. Yeah. It seems. Well, for anyone who would be upset with the idea that Amanda and or West would be on Traders,

Starting point is 01:01:02 I hate to say this, but like, you're going to see Jacks Taylor on your TV screen sooner than later. It's going to probably be this year, almost certainly. And just bring that same energy to Jack's Taylor when he comes on TV. Because whatever Amanda did, it was certainly nothing compared to the years of just true sinister behavior from Jacks Taylor. and he will continue to get more and more chances. I want to pivot to the Bachelorette scandal, Taylor Frankie Paul and all the Mormon wives. We recently found out over the weekend

Starting point is 01:01:36 that Dakota is going to be edited out of Vanderpump Villa. I thought that was really interesting and important news if for no other reason, I think that it gives us a little insight to the possibility of what the future holds for the Bachelorette franchise and Mormon wives because at least they're making a decision. They're taking a stand.

Starting point is 01:01:55 On one end, I feel like you can interpret that as, all right, well, maybe Mormon wives isn't going to come back, or maybe Taylor and Dakota won't come back. Or is it the production company and ABC kind of aligning with Taylor to say, hey, we're no longer going to allow Dakota to kind of skate through unscathed as it regards to this scandal going on? I'm just curious, like, is someone who interviewed Taylor, Frankie, Paul, Rebecca, like, what are your feelings about the future of Mormon wives? and Taylor Frankie Paul.

Starting point is 01:02:27 Yeah, I mean, well, she just posted today that she's like leaving the Mormon church, which she thought was really interesting. Like, we did actually, when I interviewed her, we talked a lot about God and faith and stuff. And she was like, that's the one thing in my life that's never wavered. But, yeah, I think, I mean, obviously, I think she, also when I talked to her, she was, she said she was the closest to quitting all of this than she's ever been. So I, so I hope that the good that comes out of this maybe is that she does get a break, like a long break, maybe from either having to like do press or shoot any TV shows.

Starting point is 01:02:55 So I think that that could be like a positive outcome. I've also heard rumors that they're going to air the first six episodes that they already kind of have in the can of Mormon Wives Season 5. But also like you also get some of her stars like Jesse Draper like posting Tizzy TikToks with Marciano implying that like they're together or something, which I'm just like, damn. Like you go like if you're not filming like you just like choose this messy lifestyle. No, it's it is crazy. And I was thinking about it over the weekend. Like if you just compare Scamanda to the Mormon wives drama, right? On one end, Mormon wives, you have obviously the domestic situation.

Starting point is 01:03:36 We all know how serious that is. Then we have the Marciano of it all who was involved in this kind of love triangle between Jesse and Demi. Then there was these accusations of potential misconduct of Marciano. That was embedded into that storyline. Now you still have Jesse going back to that same Marciano guy. Like the level of scandal on Mormon wives is so much more serious and dramatic. And yet I feel like we're talking more about Scamanda. And I just wonder if, again, it goes back to the relatability.

Starting point is 01:04:13 And it's just a lot easier and maybe more fun to talk about. I don't know. Because when you compare the two, there's no comparison to the heaviness of Mormon wives compared to what's going on. in the Bravo world. Yeah, I think it's like, it's almost frustrating sometimes to watch Mormon wives because, like, more drama goes down in one scene of that show than, like, entire seasons of, like, housewives sometimes. It's like, they talk about, like, this really dark stuff and, like, people sleeping

Starting point is 01:04:37 with other people's, like, ex-husbands or baby daddies. Like, this is not, like, you know, dating, your friend dated someone two years ago, and now you're, like, maybe having a situation with ship with him. It's like, he just impregnated me and now, like, he's having sex with my friend. But it's, I think with Summerhouse, It's like these people feel like they could be our, I say R as in like, you know, a millennial person who like lives in New York, whatever. But like our friends, whereas I think the draw of Mormon wives was a little bit of voyeurism of like this culture that not a lot of us are part of or know anything about. And also the fact that it started based on like a swinging scandal among these like very, you know, lowercasey conservative Mormon people.

Starting point is 01:05:19 There was like what's going on in that one little world where a summer house, it's like, look at these like, fun city gals going to the Hamptons who actually like each other for the most part and have this really sweet friendship that we're rooting for. And they deal with the same kind of guys that, you know, if you're a woman in your 20s or 30s in New York, you've definitely dated guys that are exactly like that or maybe even seen them somewhere. Whereas I just think it's a completely different kind of entertainment. So, yeah, it feels different because it's like, that could happen to you. That could maybe happen to me or like that has happened to me or something. Do we think Jesse's doing this to like try to prove that like Mormon wives can continue

Starting point is 01:05:56 without Taylor Frankie Paul? Because like it's honestly it seems crazy that she is. I mean to me it's just like we don't know what's happening with Mormon wives. We don't know what's happening with a Bachelorette. And yet all the other Mormon wives are out there just still making content and creating drama. And part of it, I feel like many of us are sitting back here watching it being like, Can they, is this okay to do? Can they, aren't we still like waiting to find out like what's going on with Taylor, you know, in Dakota? Is everyone okay? And yet they're out there still making content. And we're just eating it up. I just feel like Jesse's determined because I was like, we're also leaving out the making out with Chase and then sending Miranda flowers. So I'm like, on top of going for Chase at some point, then we are like, let's call back to Marciano. Why? Oh yeah. That is one sort of theory that I I have is like Jesse sort of auditioning to be the new Taylor. Like we had Whitney versus Taylor kind of being like in season one and two. It's like who's going to be the leader.

Starting point is 01:06:57 And now I think Jesse who is a fascinating person to me is sort of like occupying that spot. And I think it's going to work out for her. Based on these actions, I'm like, I think you might be a leader now. Yeah, maybe. And also like again, back to like what I was saying before with Amanda. It doesn't make it okay. But knowing this world that these people are in, you know, again, Jesse's also someone who got out of divorce.

Starting point is 01:07:22 Like, I think people in those positions often gravitate to familiar faces. Like when they are exiting a stage of their life and they feel very alone, I think it's common to just connect with people you already have some type of rapport with. Like, you know, you're the flirty guy who gives you attention. And when you add to the fact that you're a public figure and you don't know. who to trust and you don't know how to date. Because we're all like sitting there being like, are there no other men, you know, are there no other people you can make out with

Starting point is 01:07:55 or flirt with than other people's exes and husbands? But I think in some cases in these people's universes, it might sometimes feel like there are no other options. As crazy as that sounds, I honestly feel like that's kind of the psychology that they're dealing with. I don't know how much of a safe space Chase gave to Jesse for her to. I don't know safe space, but I just,

Starting point is 01:08:14 There is clearly a familiar. Again, I just. I also don't know how much familiarity the two of them have together considering he is her not even like close friends, ex-husband and baby daddy. I know it sounds crazy, but she does know him and he, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's why, what's why you see bachelor alumni people hook up and hang out. And it's just, I just, there's just a lot a commonality between these people and there's often this feeling like no one understands what it's like to be in my position. And I think that's when you get these people interacting with people only with each other. And we're all wondering, like, are there, you can't find anyone else? And I, it's, I think that's an element that we should at least consider playing a role in how these

Starting point is 01:09:02 people are making decisions. I also think you can blame that on the fact that dating apps are probably just so awful that everyone's like, well, even Raya sucks now. So there's not even in a safe space for quasi-ce celebrities. So it's like you just have to pick the person that's closest to you. Rebecca, before we let you go, you also wrote a book about what we, what was the title, like, what we can learn about dating through Love Island? Yes, it was called Be the Bombshell, what Love Island tells us about dating. Give us a little insight.

Starting point is 01:09:31 Give us a little insight. That's what our show is, honestly, I love it because like we use reality TV. We use these situations with their favorite reality TV stars to talk. about our own lives, right? Yeah. To talk about, we see ourselves in the people we, we, we talk about. I honestly think the people who criticize the most are the people who remind us of us. It's so much easier to be like, I've done that, but I've learned.

Starting point is 01:09:54 I'm a better person, but fuck this person. They haven't learned yet. Like, the psychology of reality TV, like, that's, I love it. So I think we can definitely learn a lot by watching Love Island on all the do's and don'ts of dating. Exactly. Yeah, that was sort of like what the theme of it was. It's like because Love Island takes like random people from like random kind of sometimes nowhere towns and puts them in a villa together. And it's like they just happen to be really hot. But like they are dealing with the same stuff that everyone else is. It's like and you watch them live in this villa that like you can't really go to anybody because they're living in a house with you. And you have to watch them interact. And you can sort of like learn from the ways they choose to and choose to not like communicate what they want from each other. And I just find Love Island to be one of the most fascinating shows of all time.

Starting point is 01:10:41 What do you hope doesn't happen in next season of Love Island compared to last season? If you were a producer in Love Island, what is one feedback you're giving the show that they must or must not do this season? Well, this is my note for all of reality TV. I think it's gotten way too meta. I think they cast people that like know exactly like Ace, for instance, being like you guys like are closing off too soon. It's like, well, this show is called Love Island. So like the goal is to sort of like close off really soon and like build a relationship. And I have the same problem with TV shows where it's like you're not showing enough of your life.

Starting point is 01:11:16 So therefore, like, you're hiding something from the cameras. It's like, you don't need to sort of like create drama just for the cameras and have that be authentic. I don't think that's any more authentic than like trying to be like a little bit like private about certain things. And I think we need to go back to the ancient text of reality TV where it was like, this is what I want to show. But like the fun is like sort of cracking, like seeing the cracks beneath the surface. So Love Island, no more meta game. just cast fun people. All right, Rebecca, I really appreciate taking the time.

Starting point is 01:11:45 It's been a lot of fun talking with you. As this story continues and as more is revealed, we would certainly love to have you back and join us in these discussions, but we really appreciate you taking the time. Where can people follow you, enjoy all the work that you're doing? Yeah, so I'm writing for New York Magazine.

Starting point is 01:11:59 You can follow me on Instagram and Twitter at Rebecca, but I'll be covering this lovely world just as you are, and I will be following along with you as well. So thank you so much for having me. Thanks for coming, Rebecca. I appreciate you. Bye. All right, up next, we have Cynthia Bailey and Miguel Luciano to talk all things.

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Starting point is 01:15:31 Like flipping through the channels. And then you turned around and you, what did you say? You're like, now let's get to the realty. I say one of my favorite things to say. Now what else is going on? Now what else is going on? Now what else the hell is going on? We are back with the bank. It was iconic.

Starting point is 01:15:48 Yes. Thank you. We have a new season upon us. We always like to ask. Like, what can we expect from this season? What will be different about this season from last ones? And what can we look most forward to? That will be different about season.

Starting point is 01:16:05 Season 17, spicy season 17 is the fact that we have two new housewives. We got Kay Michelle, who is hilarious. I can't wait for you guys to get into her story. And we also have Pinky Cole, who is also a great addition to the cast and funny as well. She brings a lot to the table as well. So we got two strong new housewives. That's number one. And then we got, you know, Fadra, we got Portia, we got Shmiabak, we got Kelly.

Starting point is 01:16:31 And, of course, we have Drusetora and Angela. And to round it all out, you know, the creator of the friend contract, we got Cynthia Denise, cheekbones, Bailey. Yeah. Cheap bones, Bailey. Perfect TV. Has Portia recovered from her early traders exit? Is that something that?

Starting point is 01:16:54 Ooh, I hope so. And I actually want, you know, as a huge fan of traders, someone who is anxiously waiting for my phone call from traders, I feel like Portia needs to do. She wasn't there long enough. She was not there long enough. I was rooting for her, but, you know, it was very short-lived. So I know that Portia had a lot more to bring to traders, and hopefully she'll get to spend a block.

Starting point is 01:17:18 Well, going to that dinner that Porsche threw, who was Drew on the phone with the whole time and why was he on FaceTime for the entire dinner? Well, Drew was on the phone with her friend, her special friend. friend Black. And he was not able to make it. My guy wasn't able to make it either. He was actually in Amsterdam. I'm not sure what part of the world Drew's man was in,

Starting point is 01:17:48 but he was kind enough to zoom in. Oh, thank God. And sit through the entire dinner with us for three hours with a big smile on his face. So I was like, you know what? He's a real one for that. I mean, that was the in person. And three hours is a long time to be sitting with these women. But on a Zoom, it was a lot.

Starting point is 01:18:08 Why? Like, why? He wasn't able to make it. So that was, I mean, to see, listen, all I can tell you is he, we were told that he was not able to be there in person. So he graciously joined us via Zoom. Was he present the whole time? Or was he like multitasking? No, he sat there and smiled the whole time.

Starting point is 01:18:31 He was there the whole time. He may have still been there when I left and heard. with that big old chain on. Yeah. You had a huge chain on. I learned like Flame of Flav. I was like, what? I think she should have brought a friend, like a best friend, like a human person in the flesh.

Starting point is 01:18:48 A neighbor. I think a neighbor would have been good, but no? Yeah. I mean, you know, again, if you're out of the country, that's one thing. If you just can't make it, then, yeah, maybe a human would have been, like, you know, a whole human. Human in person would have been, yeah. I mean, Drew's a beautiful girl. I mean, I'm sure she has lots of options.

Starting point is 01:19:10 But for whatever reason, you know, she chose the Zoom. I mean, I love a good Zoom, but it was, you know, it was hilarious. It gave me who wants to be a millionaire vibes. Like phone a friend. I'm going to phone a friend for three hours, if you don't mind. Zoom a friend. I'm thinking, was she using him as a distraction where it's like if I'm in the middle of a conversation.

Starting point is 01:19:35 I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. What did you say? That's a good point. Yeah, like she could always have to patch it away. I'm losing reception. I've got to go back to the phone call. What did you think of Porsche's timeline with Simon and when she met Mike? Like, oh, okay, here we go.

Starting point is 01:19:53 We get messy. Okay. Well, what did I think about our timeline? I actually didn't think that much about the timeline until the other ladies brought it up. And then I started like. thinking like, was there, is there? I don't remember. Well, I never met Mike until that night. So I don't know what the timeline actually is. All I know is I've never seen him before until that dinner. So I don't think there was any crossover. But, you know, that's, you know, between Portia

Starting point is 01:20:25 Mike and God and the Ghost of Simon, I guess. Who of your castmates do you think is? going to catch the most heat this season. Who of your castmates is like a little nervous about this season kind of airing? Wow.

Starting point is 01:20:46 Okay, so we just wrecks episode one. We have a few more to go. We have trips to go on. A lot happens throughout the season. So Drew has a lot of back and forth. Shemia has self-proclaimed that

Starting point is 01:21:04 She is in her villain era the season. So she has a lot of back and forth the season. I think for the most part, Drew and Shemia had the most, if you want to call it heat. Like, they had a lot going on this season just in terms of conflict and drama. Is there anyone of those two

Starting point is 01:21:28 who you think might catch the most heat, is there either one that you feel like the audience or fans might unfairly criticize where you maybe understand their point of view where the audience won't, if that makes sense? I think that the audience will definitely have a lot to say. I don't know. I kind of feel like Shimea definitely kind of came in the hottest. But again, she's owning it.

Starting point is 01:22:01 It is what it is. just where she is in her life and that's just how she wanted to navigate the season. And I think she's going to, you know, have to explain, you know, some of her choices and some of her decisions, for sure. Sierra, do you have any questions for Cynthia about Atlanta coming up this season? Shemia and Portia, I hate to see it where it's at. Do we, are we going to get some resolve or more down to the bottom of what's going on there, a repair of that friendship, perhaps? Okay, so the friendship between Portia and Shemir, or the lack thereof, it's a hard one to watch, you know, for me, again, as someone, like I love, you know, I'm a friend to the show, so I really strive to be in a good place with all other ladies. And, you know, I've had ups and downs with my own friendships on the show.

Starting point is 01:22:57 And I will say you guys will definitely have a front row seat to how they navigate this. I will say it starts up kind of good, and then it gets bad, and then it gets really, really, really, really, really, really bad. So I don't want to spoil anything, but, you know, I think for me, what I would have liked to have seen is them get in just a cordial, respectful place. You know, sometimes friendships, I mean, I hate to see friendships end, but at the same time, I don't. applaud being in a relationship that no longer serves the people anymore or it could be toxic or whatever. So sometimes you have to move on. And even outside of the show, you know, if you, I mean, we're, we're, this, this is a friend circle, but it's also a working circle as well. So even outside of the show, if you're working a regular job and you fall out with one of your co-employees, you still got to see them in a brick room heating up their food in the microwave. You know what I'm saying? So we still have to be able to co-exist. I've been able to do that with my ups and downs.

Starting point is 01:24:07 It's not fun. It's not comfortable having to hang out with people that you're not in a good place with. But I think they can get to a respectful place at some point. But it's going to take a minute. And you guys will see that play out. It's going to take a lot of episodes. Well, we will be watching them all. Before we let you go, Cynthia, I am curious as someone who's got your own cast to deal with

Starting point is 01:24:32 and your busy, busy life, do you have any time to follow this summer house drama that's unfolding in the bravoverse? Or are you still, are you just fully immersed in Atlanta? Well, I am busy. However, I am, I mean, I cannot miss, you know, every time I turn on my phone, I see something about what went down

Starting point is 01:24:54 with the whole summer house thing. And I think that, like, I don't believe in, like, You know, it is what it is. People are people. They're going to do what they're going to do. And you just never know how things work out when you're on a reality show. But of course, I felt really bad for Sierra. I felt really, really bad for her.

Starting point is 01:25:18 You know, I hadn't followed her relationship with this guy or anything like that. But it seems like just the whole way it went down just seemed really foul, like a betrayal. And it seems like she was really cool with the girl. my name is Amanda, right? She was really cool with her. And I don't know. It just, it just, I feel bad for her because it seems like it feels like, and, you know, again, I don't follow the show like religiously or anything like that. But it does feel like, you know, Sierra still has feelings for this man.

Starting point is 01:25:51 So that really, really sucks. Yeah. I think she got played by a lot of people she thought she could trust. Well, to wrap it up in a nutshell. Thank you, Nick, for just. Playing everything I said in a nutshell. Putting it play in. Nobody wants to get played.

Starting point is 01:26:08 Nobody wants to be played with, nor do they want to get played. But it, you know, it was hard to kind of like unpack that. I was like, dang, you know, that's messed up. It's like messed up for like to find out that he's with someone else and then to find out he's with her. So it was like a double. How would you think that castmates of Atlanta would handle a scandal like this? Has there not been one? Let me think.

Starting point is 01:26:36 It's like this is Atlanta baby. I think we've handled everything on Atlanta. She said face to face. I think Atlanta would handle it. It would definitely get handled. I think one of the things that, I think one of the reasons why everyone's excited for Atlanta to be back is because, you know, there's all the different franchises,

Starting point is 01:26:56 but there's just the bar that Atlanta has where, you know, things happen on Atlanta that just don't happen on the other. the franchises. It's just a different beast. It just always has been, which is why Atlanta was on top for so long. And we're on our way back. Thank you very much. But, you know, Atlanta's like, what you got? Bring it. You know what I mean? It's just a different culture. It's just a different breed. And there's nothing that Atlanta can't handle. It's going to get handled in Atlanta, for sure. Give us one word to describe Kay Michelle and Pinky Cole in this season. Ooh, K Michelle

Starting point is 01:27:31 Authentic Okay What you see is what you get And Pinky Feisty Like she's She's here She's like she got a lot to say

Starting point is 01:27:44 She's very feisty She definitely Inserts herself She is smart She is funny She's feisty I gave her a little nickname But I'm not going to give that away

Starting point is 01:27:57 You guys will see that coming up on other episodes. Yeah, I had to give her a little nickname, Pinky. You guys will see. So feisty and authentic. Kay is who she is. I don't think, one of the things I love about Kay is I felt like she didn't really force herself on us in any way. Like, you know, she just kind of slowly, you know, you just like, it was, she was actually the one that it took the longest for me to get to know because she didn't, she didn't come in high. at all. And she's had a lot of experience on reality TV, but she really navigated this particular

Starting point is 01:28:33 space in a way that just felt very natural and very organic. And, you know, she's great. What did you think about Kay already walking off at her first dinner? Well, I love a good walk-off. But normally, you know, you got to come back and we have to finish the scene. However, it was good timing because it was kind of toward the end of the scene. and we were like getting ready to wrap it up. But I think Kay is, you know, she's made no secret. She's a fan of the show. She, you know, she knows how to navigate this space.

Starting point is 01:29:08 And I think, you know, Kay Michelle is just somebody who's going to just do whatever she wants to do. And again, authentic. Like, you know, Angela tried to go get her. But that didn't work out. We ended up just all going outside with the guy. Yeah, you guys all just call it. Do you think she'll walk out more? Do you think that that'll be authentic to her?

Starting point is 01:29:27 Oh, Kay's going to do a lot more than walk off the season. She's going to be... Thank God. Yeah, she's going to be doing a lot of things, for sure. I have to say, I love her. I love her. I want 14 of them. Like, I love Kay Michelle.

Starting point is 01:29:41 I think she's a great addition to the show. And by the way, Cynthia, when you were talking about that Atlanta's always been that girl, it's true. You guys, I think, consistently have the most interpersonal, like, dynamic relationships. most of the women have really strong personal narratives. There's always comedy and drama, which some shows don't have. Yes. But you guys are always, like, I actually laughed out loud this morning watching the episode, which I haven't done in most of the recent franchises.

Starting point is 01:30:09 To be really honest. Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. Atlanta's different. Like, I've had an opportunity to shoot with some of the other franchises, like Beverly Hills. And it's like, I'm like, oh, my God. The vibe is different.

Starting point is 01:30:23 Like the drama. their drama is so small compared to the stuff that happens on Atlanta. Like Atlanta is just, you know, I mean, it would be a dream to go and fight about some of the stuff, some of the other people fight about, because it's just not that, you know, it just don't hit as hard. Like Atlanta is, you know, Atlanta goes for the juggler. The real deal. It's like, it's tough. Atlanta's not easy.

Starting point is 01:30:51 Everyone's not built for Atlanta, which is why it's kind of nice for me to be a friend. this season because, you know, I've been, you know, been on Atlanta for over a decade. But as a friend this, you know, season, it's, you know, I, you know, I do catch a couple strays. Like, I tried to stay out of it, but I definitely caught a couple of strays. And I had to, like, you know, get activated a couple of times as well. I was even like, wait, I thought the friends were up limits. What's happening? But in Atlanta, they're like, you're over here, you know, you can get, you can get the smoke as well.

Starting point is 01:31:21 50 cents out. Yes. Yeah, I got a little smoke. and I also gave a little smoke. So, you know, again, I'm excited. I'm just excited to see this new cast. And I think that, you know, I went online this morning. It seems like the fans are excited.

Starting point is 01:31:37 It just feels like something a little new, a little different, and almost like a breath of fresh air. So I'm just really happy that I had a front row seat. And I can't wait for you guys to. It's already topping the charts on Peacock. I think it's number two right now. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 01:31:54 That's after last next from there on Bravo. So people are definitely enjoying it already. Cynthia, appreciate you taking the time and giving us some insight on what we can expect for next season. Please let my audience know where they can file you. Obviously, you have humble brag with Crystal Minkoff every week. Be sure to tune into that. And where else can they find you, Cynthia? Oh, I got a lot going on.

Starting point is 01:32:16 But right now my focus is, you know, the new season. We want to make sure that we let you guys. know Atlanta's back on top and it's going to be a fun and entertaining season. And of course, humble brag is where my heart is with my girl Crystal Kung Meekoff. And I got a movie coming out. But, you know, I thought to you guys more about that. I got a lifetime movie coming out this year. And, you know, I'm good. Are you acting, producing, directing, all of the above? I'm doing it all. I'm doing it all. And oh, you guys got a chance to see my guy, Amsterdam. They showed a little shot of Amsterdam on the first episode. That's right. You know, no one, you know,

Starting point is 01:32:53 you see him in real life with me, but, you know, he, um, you know, he pops in a little bit the season with me. So. All right. Cynthia, well, you know, you have to get going. You're busy. We appreciate you taking the time. It's always great to talk with you.

Starting point is 01:33:07 All right. Love you guys. Bye. I love you. Bye. Nice to see you. Well, Atlanta seems like it's going to be messy as usual. It's so good.

Starting point is 01:33:17 For episode one, like every minute was just give me more of it. A perfect premiere. episode, if you will. Amen. It felt like the situation ship Olympics of Atlanta and it was beautiful. And for it all to be in Simon's home.

Starting point is 01:33:36 And the ghost of Simon permeating throughout the home was amazing. The ghost of Simon, Mike telling everyone, thank you for coming. Oh my God, so good. But Kay Michelle really to me was the standout. Oh, she's incredible. I mean, what a woman

Starting point is 01:33:51 Kay Michelle is. And I don't know the lore of Kishel. I don't either. I found that just a little bit that apparently she was that girl on love and hip hop. Oh. Okay. Her sit down with Portia on the couch where I was like, I'm just meeting you. And somehow we've already gone through like elements of vulnerability to like humor.

Starting point is 01:34:08 I'm like baggage with like other women in Atlanta. I was like she came ready to play. And she broke the board's wall. She was like looking into the camera like, mm-hmm. And I was like, okay, Michael Sky up in this bitch. I think she might rip Drew Shedora to shreds. Accidentally though and I just I think we need that I like Drew I have no problem with Drew But I think Kay Michelle slaying a dragon is kind of the thing right now yeah yeah and then Pinky

Starting point is 01:34:34 I That's a diva after my own heart I love her so much you know I don't have a read on her yet Yeah, I'm kind of like I get the vibe I see what's going on here I don't have a personal connection to her yet but I do think we're on the right track I think I'm curious what you guys think about it I feel like what works for me for both of them as a at the same time is they're both like I say and I say this as the utmost compliment in the same way that like Kathy Hilton is like your oddball they kind of brought in two seemingly odd balls into the cast and I think it like shakes it up a lot and they're a little bit more like I don't know like weird I don't think he's quirky quirky quirky is the right word you're looking for is quirky yeah pinkie's definitely quirky and Kay Michelle's not quirky but she's whimsical there's like a whimsy to her where she's kind of like oh well okay like there's like a funny sort of vibe to her. She has an aura about her that you've never seen before

Starting point is 01:35:27 and is not going to be replicated. Completely. Yes. She does bring a certain vibe to the function, which I think Atlanta could definitely use a little bit of whatever K. Michelle is. Now, I'm interested, like, I'm happy that Angela came back. I didn't want to ask Cynthia because I didn't want to put her in a weird spot, but I was just like

Starting point is 01:35:43 watching Angela and Charles this first episode for me was kind of like, May this Love Never Find Me? Oh, no. I'm sorry, but I'm just like, I'm very interested to see their dynamic girl because last season it was kind of the same thing too but it's like anytime she tries to be like cutesy with him or being like yeah you wanted to take me home the first he goes no I didn't and I'm like girl can you just play along I think well you saw camichel and Charles Bond because

Starting point is 01:36:06 Camacho is like he's an asshole he's an asshole I love assholes and I was like you know what I get Charles Oakley I think I he's he's like he's like Todd you know and it's like the kind of like curmudgini guy that I'm like she loves him she's into it she likes it yeah yeah if you all of a sudden changed, she'd be like, fuck this. Like, why are you being nice to me? Yeah, yeah, she likes that kind of funny sense of humor. You have to understand the lore of Charles Oakley. He was like the enforcer in the 90s.

Starting point is 01:36:34 Yeah. And in the NBA, when the NBA was like a different game. He was like the bad boy of the NBA. I think he's still the bad boy of Atlanta because he. Well, yeah, but like the fact that he's not like showing up, like, let's do a scene. You know, he's like he's reluctantly begrudgingly there because he loves his woman. And she wants to be a holiday. wife and he's like, I guess, fine.

Starting point is 01:36:56 Yeah, but in that first scene, like, when it was just the two of them, she's like, touch my booty and he was like, no. And he was just like, why? It's just funny watching this man who's like probably screamed at Dennis fucking Rodman on the court before, like, get a little uncomfy being intimate with his wife on camera. Bad boy can't show love. I think that's what it is that he's kind of like, I'm not going to like get all like bricked up right now in front of the camera.

Starting point is 01:37:19 Like, that's what I think it is. I want to see it. I need to see it. I need to see one moment that I'm like, Angela, I get it. I need to. At this point, I need to. I mean, I'm obsessed with Angela Oakley, by the way. I think R.H.O.A. is real housewives orbiting Angela.

Starting point is 01:37:35 Oh. Like, I told her that at BravoCon. I'm like, that she needs to be the center peach. The world needs to revolve around her. Like, I'm a huge Angela Oakley. She's my favorite. She's my favorite. Right?

Starting point is 01:37:48 I mean, outside of Cynthia. She's so good. But, like, I just find. Of course. Yeah. But Cynthia's, like, OG. icon legendary in her own category. So I get what you're saying.

Starting point is 01:37:57 Angela does feel like a new edition housewife who feels like she's been on the show for years. Yes. And I think that happens when you're of a certain age. And which I prefer. Like, that's my problem with Rhode Island, which we'll get to in a second. They all feel like they're in their 30s. And that's very hard for me. Really? You're not

Starting point is 01:38:13 fucking with Rhode Island? I like Rhode Island. I just think there's too many young girls from my personal taste. Like, I like a woman has a little bit more of a life. These girls, most of them are super young. They're like three or four girls that are in their 30s or they look like it and they act like it. So it's like I like like women on the show that are a little bit more, you know, like the Angela's, right? Like Kay Michelle is a little younger, but that's why my favorite on Rhode Island is Liz.

Starting point is 01:38:38 Yeah, because I'm like, okay, Liz is like what we're talking about. This is a character. Yes. You know what I'm saying? We already have a polyamorous relationship going on in Rhode Island. Allegedly. Allegedly. I thought, okay, now we're talking, now we're cooking with some butter.

Starting point is 01:38:54 But I liked Rhode Island. You know what I will tell you about Rhode Island that I did enjoy? Is that everyone has a very full life. Yeah. That I did like. Everyone has a full life and there's like we could probably unfold lots of things with all of these women. I didn't find Rhode Island very funny, which was I kind of was like, okay, I didn't laugh that much, which is a bummer for me. It's just one episode.

Starting point is 01:39:15 Yeah. I know, but, but you know, okay, so are you being paid by Rhode Island? Yeah. Well, one of my dearest friends, Ashley Ayakinetti is a housewife. So I do want to see it do well. So you've got stock. I get it. No, I think the show is great.

Starting point is 01:39:28 I'm just, I guess also here's the problem too is that I saw it three days after everyone talked about it. So the hype was like, it is incredible. It's amazing. So I'm like, all right, I'm ready. Like, let's see this. And I was hoping to be a little, to just laugh more. And I just did it.

Starting point is 01:39:42 I was like, okay, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on here. I think that halfway through the season, I'm going to be really invested because all of these relationships are going to really peel back the layers or we're going to be like, okay, there's all the they are there. Yeah. You know? But, um, yeah. I'm just wondering, like, knowing Ashley and Jared how they're going to navigate, like,

Starting point is 01:40:01 if things really take off and it gets messy and I don't know which women have what storylines. But I just know Ashley and Jared are just like some of the most loveliest, nicest, normal, and the best possible way type of. people. So I am just as a friend and fan fascinated with how they will immerse themselves into bravo lore. Jared's just like one of the nicest, kindest people, period. And now he's like a house husband in a group of, you know, like when we're used to talking about like some of the guys in Orange County, you know, or it's just like some of the husbands are like outside of Terry Debrough,

Starting point is 01:40:42 who's a king and I love him. And Eddie. Oh, Eddie. Yeah. I'm an Eddie fan. Yeah. I've, uh, I've, I've met Eddie. He's lovely. I don't know too much about Eddie. Have you seen my Eddie impersonation? No. No, please. Nick, are you ready for my Eddie smile? Please. So good. Yeah, that's him.

Starting point is 01:41:04 Excellent. That's my opinion. But you see, your friend Jared seems almost like he would be on Summer House or on like a show with young people. That's why I think it threw me off because I was like, all of these people are so young and sort of almost like they seem like a very normal couple. She's like a normal girl that like fell into like housewife dumb almost. That's so I'm not saying I don't like it. I'm just it's an adjustment.

Starting point is 01:41:29 Her ripping her nails off sitting at the coffee shop talking to Tara. I was like, bitch, that is so me. I loved that. You loved that? I loved that because I'm like as someone who if I paint my nails or if I have pressons on, they're coming off anywhere if I feel it in the moment, especially if like I can imagine her in that moment. like filming a scene and then it's like they're talking about their personal life and she's like anxious

Starting point is 01:41:51 about it and so she's just peeling her nails off and now that's on camera and i'm like yes yeah and she brought duncan i'm like that is a real one i've never i've never been like yeah that's that's like one of my girls on housewives necessarily which i think is fun it's interesting so you you kind of you don't mind a housewife that feels very real and relatable to you yeah because okay i think usually i'm watching housewives as i'm like these divas you know what i I mean, like, they're the older women, they're like my, my moms, my, like, aunts, whatever. And now I see, I'm like, oh, that's my sister. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:42:25 Which is usually how I feel like watching, like, a summer house. But it's fun to be like, oh, I guess it's like, let me see what, like, someone like my sister could do to these older, like, to these women. And it's really interesting. But, um, I'm excited to see what the 30, 40 somethings do because I think like we see in summer house. Like, that's a timing your life that people talk about midlife. crises and things like that, right? Where you're not, you're not your 20s anymore, where you have like the freedom to fuck around and find out, or you're not like later in life where you've calmed down a little bit. You have that perspective. You know, that 30s and 40s is when you like,

Starting point is 01:43:04 maybe your marriage does slow down. You lose connections with your partner. Maybe the sex has gone out of your relationship, but you still want to keep that relationship going. So you maybe dabble in, you know, non-traditional marriages and things like that. Where, you know, you know, know, you're still young enough to crave the drama, but you're, you're too old to be a part of the drama anymore. And I feel like that's what you're kind of getting from like, that's what makes that scandal, I think, so compelling because we're ultimately talking about adults who should know better. And I think when we watch her from that lens and they're really messy and they're kind of operating like the disc got out of college, to me, that's some of the best reality TV.

Starting point is 01:43:39 Like, that's why we love Mormon wives because you have these seemingly adult women. And granted, they're like in their kind of mid-20s, but they're like living a lifestyle of more mature adult, right? Like they're not doing the summer house, go to the Hamptons and party on the weekend and DJ. They're slowing down, they're settling down. And yet there's that part of them that's, that doesn't want to slow down.

Starting point is 01:43:59 And they still want to be messy and go out. And I think that's where you get some of the best reality TV. So I'm kind of, I like that it's younger on Rhode Island because, again, like, you have the Orange County and you have the Beverly Hills Housewives franchise to like to have more, like, less drama, more just like, you know, it's, Oh, you turn on Beverly Hills, you get to see Rodeo Drive, and it's nostalgic and things like that.

Starting point is 01:44:21 You know, like, I need to unpack a thruple relationship. So, I definitely need to unpack a thruple. I'm in total agreement with the storylines. I'm, I'm into what's going to come down. I'm into that, and I'm ready for it. I am. I don't want you to think I'm not on board. It's just, it took me a second to go, okay, but I'm into it.

Starting point is 01:44:40 I saw it and I was, I had my eyes open the entire time. It was one of those like, okay. And I think there's like a nice. range that I'm interested to see how it all comes together because I'm like you've got Ashley who kind of seems like very like genuine and just like wants to like make friends and figure out her footing in Rhode Island. And then you've got someone like Rosie who's like literally saying in her in her interviews like I'm lying straight to her face because that's what we do in Rhode Island. Like you know what I mean? Like clearly like we just watched her start a bunch of shit and I'm

Starting point is 01:45:11 just like it's going to be interesting seeing like these these types of people all come together because I don't feel like this is like a very strong group of friends. I feel like it's more casting. Well, I mean, I feel like they actually, I get what you're saying, but I think the good thing is is that they all know each other or they know each other's lore. They know of each other. Yeah, exactly. Because it's so small.

Starting point is 01:45:30 Yes. And if they don't know the person, they know their best friend or they dated the person from the tanning salon. Like that I did enjoy a lot. Yeah. Was that they all have like connections that are deep and personal, which I think is going to help the show a lot. Because even if I'm not that close with you,

Starting point is 01:45:44 you're super close to my cousin. So if you say something, it just changes the dynamic of like what I think your perspective of me is. What my perspective of you is based off the fact that your brother dated my neighbor or whatever. So I think that's the strongest aspect of Rhode Island right now is that they really go back.

Starting point is 01:45:59 Yeah. Yeah. If I may wax poetic about the real hospice of Rhode Island for just one second, I do think it does have the potential to be if Salt Lake City is like the true crime, you know, prestige Bravo series. than this, the Real Housewives of Rhode Island is Grey Gardens in the way that, like, if you guys have ever seen Grey Gardens, it's that, like, generational divide with, like, Edie and Little Edie.

Starting point is 01:46:27 And they're all so weird because they're from this small place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you have Ashley, who's kind of like that outside figure of, like, watching it all go down. And I think it's, like, a very smartly put together show that if they, like, strike that, like, The wimsy of like Kay Michelle that you were bringing up, like that's Liz. Well, Liz is amazing. I need Liz and every scene that they ever do forever. Like I'm a huge fan of Liz.

Starting point is 01:46:56 The Queen of Weed. Yeah. The Queen of Wee. Liz and Dolores. Oh my God. The two twins. And I really like, you wait, I really like Liz and I really like Alicia. Alicia's the one with the, that we saw in the first episode.

Starting point is 01:47:08 Pizza Mama. Pizza Mama. I like her a lot. I think she's really great and really there's a lot that I'm, I'm, I'm really into it. I like them all. But those are my two that, I guess when I look at it from a comedic standpoint, because that's really why I watch it.

Starting point is 01:47:20 Yeah. Those are the two that are inspiring me the most to like bring them to life. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Liz, I'm already where she's got a little bit of the eyes, you know, which I really like, the queen of weed. I don't know. There's a there there with Liz. And I'm like, okay.

Starting point is 01:47:34 Cora, Mama. My biggest question for Beverly Hills this episode was, did DeReed Pate for that photo shoot? I mean, well, I'm sure that they all want to know. But here's why I want to know, it's unclear because you would think maybe the book company or her book deal, but I don't think the book paid for that photo shoot because a little bit I know about like celebrity book deals. There's not a ton of money in it. It's more of a branding thing. And according to Doreet, while she gave her professional, she hasn't even like finished writing the book. And usually like I did a photo shoot for my book. Like I paid the photographer to do it. Like there might have been a really small budget, if any budget at all. But that was a huge set. That was a huge production that she had. There was like crafties in the corner. Yeah. And I honestly wonder if she hired her, like she put on her own photo shoot and spent that money. Or did Bravo pay for it because they filmed it and had other cast members there? Because that was easily like a $15,000, $20,000 production.

Starting point is 01:48:38 One of two things. One, I think she did pay for that. Sabelle is a really well-known photographer. her. She's the one that did the like Megan Fox photos in the trees looking like a fairy. Like she's got a very specific style. She's shot a lot of my friends and like she's expensive and she's, I don't think Bravo's paying for that. Also, I know that because I am listening to Lisa Rana's book. And she tells, she spills a lot of tea and she says like a lot of shit is not covered by Bravo. There's no world in which Bravo is going to be down to pay for a $10, $15,000 photo shoot for her book that they're not getting. But isn't that? I mean, we've talked so much. about Dorit's spending

Starting point is 01:49:16 and her subsequent divorce that she's going through. And I'm watching this photo shoot where it's clear, like, she spent all this money on something that, like, she didn't need to do for the cover of her book. And like her... Has the book come out?

Starting point is 01:49:31 Do we know? I think the book has come out, yeah. I think... I don't think it has. It hasn't come out yet. I thought the photo should looked great. Whether she paid for or not, I thought what we ended up seeing looks great.

Starting point is 01:49:41 Yeah. I don't say I think she thinks she's going to make it back anyways. But I'm also like, that's where Kyle being concerned or whatever, is that she did spend some of her advance on a Kelly bag. So, which, Hermes. It's coming out tomorrow. It's coming out tomorrow.

Starting point is 01:49:54 Unburdened. Unburdened. Unburdened. So to answer your question, Nick, my personal opinion is I think that she probably paid for it out of pocket. And I think that maybe there was some negotiation like its exposure, maybe not that Sabelle needs it. But, you know, it doesn't hurt to be on an international TV show.

Starting point is 01:50:10 Even if she got the photographer to do it for free, she still spent $20,000. There were so many assistants and people there. Yeah, I mean, Doreet is a fascinating woman to me. I will never understand, like, a lot of the things that she does, but I'm obsessed with watching her recently. So I kind of am like, keep doing everything you're doing. I want to see it all.

Starting point is 01:50:31 Like, I am really, Doree took a while, I took a while for me to get on the Doreet train. But I am on and I really don't want to get off. I'm okay. And I know that that's kind of a minority opinion. Like I think a lot of people are not enjoying her. Oh, I love me some d'Ree. What are you thinking, Nick and Natalie?

Starting point is 01:50:48 I mean, up until this episode where she went absolutely delusional and lost me and I could not side with her, not even in like the slightest bit. On what? This dinner where she walked out on the last dinner and made Erica Crudy. Yeah. That was hard to watch, for sure. I mean, how are you going to look at your friend and be like, you're going through a fuck ton? Like, you're going to question Erica Jane is going through a lot. Really? And it's like, she doesn't talk to me about it. It's like clearly, but in Kyle's point of being like, but you read the news. Like you've seen the headlines. You know what's going on in her life. And like just because she doesn't come to you and talk about it doesn't mean it's not going on in her life. Like Erica being like, I talk to my therapist about it, which is like the healthiest way to go about dealing with this type of stuff. And Doret's like, I just like, I don't believe that you're going through a lot is was absolutely bonkers to me.

Starting point is 01:51:42 was a weird take for sure, but it was. I agree with that. Like watching it, I was like, this is not, Doreet is not thinking clearly in this moment is what I said to myself. I was like, she's not seeing herself clearly. She can't actually understand how she's coming across. And she's in such a weird survival mode that she doesn't care. Like she said it, I don't care. And like, I don't agree with what she did, especially because we've seen Erica straight up be a real friend to Doree for many years. I mean, the Fox Force Five was like impenetrable. They could do no wrong and they all had each other's back. And now they're all eating, they're eating their own, right?

Starting point is 01:52:15 But the reason why I guess I find the, the fight so interesting and not as much like I'm just team Eric on this. I'm team both of them is because Doree, I think, really cannot see herself, which makes it fascinating for me. I'm like, wow, you really are not getting how you're coming across right now. She's seeing it as fuck it. I'm self-preserving. I've been taking shit for years and I'm done.

Starting point is 01:52:35 And it's not reading that way to anyone. I also kind of feel like that dinner, though, was like one thing. thing after another and to be in like Doreet's shoes or putting myself in that place, right? Like it's like we're all fighting about coming up with one thing, one thing. Then it's about being late all of a sudden. And then I'm just kind of like, first it's, oh, it's between her and Kyle and about the friendships and the fact that Kyle is going around talking to everyone to solidify a singular opinion on Doreet's behavior, but not talking to Doreet about it. I think she has a fair point there. But then when all of a sudden it came to Erica being like, well,

Starting point is 01:53:09 everyone's pissed at you because you're late. I'm like, okay, now this fight has shifted from different person to different person and a completely different topic. So like, I too would probably feel very defensive and be like, yeah, nobody has my back here clearly besides this person, because now everybody's all of a sudden saying that the whole table is talking about you behind your back. None of these people are your friend. Everybody's mad at you, but nobody has the balls to say it to your face. And I'm like, I think that's a lot of information to process when you're trying to deal with one situation. And then it gets pivoted to your other friend who then is now taking something offensively that I think Doreet said flippantly.

Starting point is 01:53:42 I don't think she was trying to like narrow out the fact that Erica hadn't been there for her as a friend. But I think the conversation was Bose talking most of the time. So I just kind of feel like I think it was a lot of misguided anger where I'm like if this conversation had ended. And then we moved on to this conversation later on. I think that that wouldn't have escalated the way that it did. Yeah. The only thing I will add to that is that I have learned through watching these shows and being in the atmosphere and the world. that every fight is about the show.

Starting point is 01:54:12 Like, it's never about anything else other than the show. So things that seem like there's tension between the friendship, it's not. It's about a show. It's a show related problem. And Beverly Hills is the one show that I find has the most secrets and masks. So the tension that was happening at that scene was not about, in my opinion, this is just my opinion, was not about Dree being late, was not about any of that. They've got their own cracks in the friendships. We'll never know because they're never going to talk about it.

Starting point is 01:54:37 Kyle has a life she does not talk about on the show. That's it. Their friendship and their alliance and how their alliances and the things that they've kept, like when Durit said, I could bring her down or I could end her life or I could blow it up. I think the phrasing was, I could blow it up. They have so much going on that they don't talk about on the show. So the fights we're watching and the tension, we're seeing real tension, but the fights are not what the tension's about.

Starting point is 01:54:59 So all of this is pointless in my mind. I'm watching the scene thinking, I wonder what they're really fucking fighting about. I wonder what they're really upset about because it's not about this and it's not about that. It's not about that. They have issues. They go far longer and deeper than this shit. And that's why you're seeing Erica cry because and Kyle getting so worked up. And Derry being like, fuck this and fuck you guys.

Starting point is 01:55:17 It's not about the late. And it's not about the kid. That's my opinion. Well, we did hear Doreet tell Erica like when I told you that you needed to bring it and have more material. I didn't mean to be a. And that was her being like you needed to bring more to the show. And it didn't mean being mean to me. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:55:34 Like, yeah. See? It's always about. It's always about the show. Their issues are always about the show. And Kyle and Doreet, as I've said famously on this show, they do not like each other. They have never liked each other. Kyle does not like Doree and Doreet does not like Kyle. And they have never liked each other. I don't think they've ever, I don't think in my personal opinion they have ever liked each other. I think they were in Beverly Hills and everyone says, oh my God, you look gorgeous. Oh my God, great. Come over. And they just like we're playing nice for thousands of years. They do not like each other. Doree and Erika, I actually think like each other. From Doree's standpoint, I will. say like the fact that Kyle is still like friends with PK even through Mo. It would be like to me like Doreet just can't and I get it. She can't get over that because it always whether Kyle means it or not, she always just sounds like she's kind of taking PK side.

Starting point is 01:56:24 Even when Kyle's trying to be objective or like giving like Doreet some like what she thinks is useful advice, it just sounds like no, you're just taking my piece of shit ex-husband side and your ex-husband who you're like still best friends with is like his best mate and she just doesn't trust anything that Kyle says and that I totally get. I completely agree with that. I would be really upset about our Doree on how Kyle handled the whole thing. And let's be clear when she says I would never talk about anything we've ever spoken about is obviously I'm talking you've told me shit about Doree or things you don't want anyone to know and I won't tell you. I won't tell him with that. But the bottom mind is

Starting point is 01:57:00 that Kyle has always been male centered. If you go back and look at the seasons, if you're a real Beverly Hills fan. Kyle's, I don't know if she was raised that way or whatever it is, but she definitely has a male-centered perspective on things.

Starting point is 01:57:12 She, and she repeats very often that she's a girl's girl. Yeah. I'm a girl's girl. Did you know? I'll put a gun to your head. I'm a girl's girl.

Starting point is 01:57:19 Yeah. And I'm not saying she's not. I do believe she's probably a really good friend to her girlfriends, but I don't think she's, I mean, a real girl's girl

Starting point is 01:57:26 would not ever in any reality of any universe text a meme to someone, I mean, to quote Alexia from Miami. I don't even follow Steve on Instagram. She said, if Paul and hers was on Instagram, when they were talking about alliances. She said, if my grandma, my grandpa got divorced, I would unfollow my grandpa.

Starting point is 01:57:42 Yeah, Larissa Pippin is a girl's girl. Exactly. So Kyle doesn't have the best read on herself in this particular situation. And I like Kyle, by the way. Yeah. By the way, I think. You know, it's like when people call themselves loyal, you know, it's like when it's, when it's happening to you, you always have a different version of the story or a reason why it's different.

Starting point is 01:58:01 Well, the one phrase I hate that people call themselves is when they call themselves charismatic. They're like, I've heard people do that. I'm like, that's the weirdest thing to call yourself. I'm a big personality. I've got a great personality. You're like, uh, okay. Okay. It's getting weird.

Starting point is 01:58:13 But I got to get this watch. Bling, bling, bishes is mad. But you know, I want to be truthful here and say that as much as this, basically, this entire season of Beverly Hills was not great, the last couple of episodes have been wildly entertaining for me. Mm-hmm. Am I, right? No? No, that's nice episode. I'm entertained.

Starting point is 01:58:28 Yeah. Nobody wanted to tell Doreet, she had a hornet in her hair sitting at that table. That was wild to walk. Watch it just slowly like coming back up and then gone and I was like where to go. You know what I think that is though? I'm thinking about like a bad brick I if I had years ago, you know, and I kind of like was just in my feelings and I was I felt sorry for myself and I kind of distanced myself from my friends and I wouldn't go out with them.

Starting point is 01:58:52 And honestly, my friends kind of got sick of me. You know, because I was always constant complaining about like all the shit that was unfair or why I was the victim. And I kind of feel like that's how the rest of the cast. is feeling about Doreet. Like they might feel sorry for her, but I feel like they're kind of tired of her feeling sorry for herself and sending herself as a victim in the situation.

Starting point is 01:59:14 And I think they're just kind of getting annoyed with her. Yeah. And Doreet is very good at focusing on herself. Like she's good on that. Like she's good at like walking in with herself being the center. And I think that's a cast of probably women that are used to also all being the center. Yeah. So, I mean, it's not a cast that's short of like confident, self-focused women. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like there's a lot of wallflowers on that cast and are like, I'm happy to let you go. Why don't you be the whole court? It's not like, it's a huge, you know. But I will say if you got rid of Doreet, what would Kyle's storyline be? Yeah, she might actually have to be honest.

Starting point is 01:59:55 She didn't bring, like, her entire storyline this season was Doreet. Well, and I mean, poor Amanda. When Amanda was like, well, that wasn't productive. That wasn't productive. I also don't hate Amanda. I don't. I think Amanda hate is a little forced. I'm into her. I think she's a great housewife. Whether, yeah, sometimes she says shit that's out of pocket and whack. Like, I would not be talking about the fact that you make more money than your husband. I wouldn't like it if a husband's said it about his wife. Like I just, that's kind of shit I don't like. And she does do things I do not like. But as a general rule, I don't dislike her. And I do think she's harmless. And I think she's kind of a refreshing, weird energy on the show. And I do think they don't like that she's happy. Because I do think she's actually kind of happy. Yeah. And I think it pisses them off because none of them are that happy right now. Kyle's not that happy. Yeah. That's a great point.

Starting point is 02:00:41 Yeah. I think Erica's working on being okay. Like she's like in therapy. She's managing herself better. She's got great reactions to things. And then Doread is, of course, on hot coals trying to get to the cool side of every day. Yeah. And Bose is in whatever she's doing with Keeley or whatever who I cannot say that I trust.

Starting point is 02:00:58 Right. Yeah. Propositioning to not work anymore. Yeah. I'm not into that. So I think Amanda's kind of like free and happy. And I think and it also, she does have an unnerving unshakability to her, which I do want to, I want to shake her. I want to see her crash out or I want to see her cry.

Starting point is 02:01:15 Not cry. I don't want to see her like throw her wig off. Like I need, I want to see her unravel a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I do want to see that. Like I think we've done the put together manifestation princess. I like it.

Starting point is 02:01:25 I want range. I want. I want her to use her manifestation powers for evil. Yeah. And I also want the Oklahoma and her to. come out. She's like, we would not say that in Oklahoma. What would you say then? Show us how Oklahoma would show up at the table. Yeah, you and Taylor are I'm strong. Yeah, come on. Like, give me something. Yeah. Because I do get bored. Like Amanda. Take her out back and go Oklahoma on us. And also, exactly. And you know what I think is also Amanda's problem too is that Amanda's not quirky enough. Because people would totally be into her if she were a total crazy ass. Yeah. If she's like bedazzled things as well. I had a tooth gem. Yes. If she was a little bonkers. I think people would be like, I don't really get her. But okay. But since she reads sort of.

Starting point is 02:02:03 normal ish. Yeah. And she's like, absolutely. It's like, no, wait, you know, she could be like Whitney Rose's like cousin from Oklahoma. She's a little like wide eyed and like, you know, do-eyed. So if she were a little quirkier, I think she, people might be more into her. But also what I will say about Amanda, too, that I think is a really interesting thing is that people do not like that she doesn't apologize for being okay and polished and peaceful. Like, a lot of people would prefer you be successful and happy if they knew how hard you've worked. Yeah. If you apologize, like, or if you feel like I earned this because I, and she's like,

Starting point is 02:02:38 no, I'm good. Period. I manifested this for myself. Yes. And a lot of people struggle with that. Like, people are happy if you succeed. If they know that like, well, it wasn't always like this. As long as you're humble.

Starting point is 02:02:49 Yes. Or if there's like a million other people to think. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's something I will say about I do, I'm cool with Amanda just being happy, even if there's no they're there. Because I don't need someone to suffer so that they can earn their. joy.

Starting point is 02:03:04 Yeah. Like, earn your abundance. You don't have to have been like, I don't need you to be a first generation American and my parents. You know, like, we're taught like you have to work so hard to be happy and you have to work so hard to be joyful and like, these are my scars to prove it. Like, you know what? Maybe she's just like whatever she's gone through.

Starting point is 02:03:21 I don't need her to justify it for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I think people do have a hard time, not just Housewives fans, people in general. Like, a lot of people are haters. A lot of people don't want people to do well. And they'll maybe think it's okay. you've done a lot to get it.

Starting point is 02:03:35 Yeah. If you hear that someone just grows up in wealth, most people get pissed. I'm like, I don't. I didn't grow up wealthy. I grew up single mom, you know, household. But if you're rich, great. Because I'm good with me, you know?

Starting point is 02:03:47 I'm jealous. Yeah, but some people... I'm not hating. I'm just jealous. But some people really struggle with that. So I think Amanda's like lack of apology and being like, I'm here and it is good. I'm actually cool with it.

Starting point is 02:03:58 And I don't see it as bragging. I don't like what she says about her husband. I don't like some of the other shit that she says. But as a general rule, her whole stance on abundance and freedom and joy and my life looks good because it is. I'm like, you know what? Fuck yeah. All right, money queen.

Starting point is 02:04:11 All right, money queen. Yeah, yeah. I might buy her book. Well, I'm buying Dorit's book because I got to pay for that photo shoot, baby. She does have to pay for that photo shoot. If she did pay for that photo shoot, it's just she definitely is bad at money. Like, I don't think.

Starting point is 02:04:25 You need to talk to Amanda. I don't think she's ever looked at her bank account versus the price tag and thought, not today. Yeah, you know, again, I find Doreet endlessly fascinating. So I'm like, whatever she's doing, I kind of, from just a spectator perspective, I'm like, keep doing you. Don't stop. And by the way, I think she looks amazing. She's so hot.

Starting point is 02:04:48 She's so hot and so put together. And so, and like, I am not a fan of cigarette smoke. I was just going to say. But I'm like, Doree with that cigarette. Do you think they totally light up, be like, hey, let's get this shot? You know, I think. She had it in her hand. the whole time she was.

Starting point is 02:05:03 No, I think whoever's choice it was, hers or the producers or the cinema talk. I mean, whoever it was, chef's kiss. I think Doree was thinking about that cigarette the whole night. Yeah. That's how I feel. I mean, she's stressed the fuck out. Yeah. She is stressed the fuck out, you know.

Starting point is 02:05:16 So she's probably thinking about a cigarette every hour. Smokers smoke pretty often. Yeah. You know, I have friends that when they like are going through a period of deep anxiety, they will smoke, you know, every 30 minutes. They're going outside. So, I mean, think about all those people with the jewel with their jewels. They're like fiends.

Starting point is 02:05:31 You know. So poor Doreen need to cigarette. And you know what baby? Let her live her life. She's unburdened. She's unburdened. The whole Erica, I mean, I have to say, I got to say one more time, this is working for me. This Erica Doree-Kyle situation

Starting point is 02:05:46 as it's juicy. It's juicy. That's all I can say, it's juicy. Well, one last thing I did want to say is that this is from Justin. He's not here right now. But he did want to say that he doesn't think Beverly Hills is back. He thinks it never.

Starting point is 02:06:02 left. Okay. Oh. He wanted me to share that. Justin is the Beverly Hills stand of all stands. I think it takes all kinds to make the world go around. I'm cool with him being on that train. I, you know, I like Justin a lot, so I'm going to rewatch the whole season and really

Starting point is 02:06:19 look at it from his perspective. On the Dereet front, she's never left for me. Even though I did not like her the first couple of seasons, 100%. I can openly admit that. But now I'm good. and Erica, I have to say this Erica is very interesting to me. I'm locked in on this Erica journey. And then Kyle, unfortunately, I'm struggling.

Starting point is 02:06:41 And I actually, my biggest problem with Kyle is that I don't dislike her as a person. Like I would almost rather a show of her and her kids on her own. Like I would, I think she's an amazing mom. Like her kids fucking adore her. She does seem like she's had the same sort of female friends in her life for a long time. That's always a good sign when someone has like long time friendships, right? Yeah. So I kind of fuck with her as a human and I've met her and she's really like genuine and was very nice.

Starting point is 02:07:05 Yeah. But on the show, I just, I do not believe that she is being truthful about what's happening in the relationships. The issues of the show are not being talked about for obvious reasons. The dynamics of the women and how they play into the show cannot be spoken about because then it changes the show, of course. But I don't know. How much do you think she's getting paid at this point since she's been on since the beginning? You know, I did hear from someone that the million dollar paycheck days are gone. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:07:34 Or plus, I heard those days are gone. So I don't know. Maybe Beverly Hills is, Beverly Hills seems to be exempt in a lot of ways. So maybe they're still getting paid the big bucks. Doree should be getting a sizable check. Right. Because she's being vulnerable and almost to a fault. I mean.

Starting point is 02:07:49 Well, they do work on some kind of bonus structure. That I did hear, yeah. Yeah. You know, as a child of divorce, I was raised on like, you don't speak. Like my mom never spoke badly about my day. Yeah, that's what it's such a reason. So I always think when parents do that in person or on camera, I'm like, ooh, it's damning. This lives forever.

Starting point is 02:08:06 It lives forever. Yeah. So she's doing it and it's a part of her real life and it's a part of where she's at, you know, everything we do at a life comes at a cost. Yeah. Who is the Rhode Island housewife that was like my mom's a bad parent. And if I'm not a good parent, it's definitely my mom's fault. Joe Allen. I was like, wow.

Starting point is 02:08:25 It was giving Jamie Curtis trauma trauma. trauma. It's about generational trauma. I was just raised so differently. Like I was raised so, I was an altar boy. I was, we were Catholic. We just did not talk about our stuff to other people. Like I, we just didn't. And it's not out of like shame. It was just like, this is the home. And like, you hold that in. Yes. Yes. You don't let other people know that. No. And like it took me a long time to let friends into like, this is how I feel about my life or my thoughts on life even, you know. So when I watch people blatantly out. loud say what she said about her mom, which is like, I'm worried about her being with my kids while I'm not there or something. I was like, oh. And you said that episode one on camera. That's why I'm saying Jo Ellen here to stay. But then the midseason or that little trailer that they showed of like the mom, her and the mom crying. I was like, okay, so this is good healing, talking about it out loud. The mom's saying I wasn't raised that way. I felt badly for the mom in that moment, you know. So it wrote, that's why I'm saying, Nick, I don't want you to think I'm not on Rhode Island's

Starting point is 02:09:24 train. It's only been one episode. Yeah. It's, it's, it's. We have a lot of it. But I'm not even... But I'm not even not on it. I'm on it. I'm into it. I am. It's just a total for different reasons.

Starting point is 02:09:36 I'm into this show for narratives because everyone's bringing their own real life story, which is interesting to me. It's just in my mind different than what I was expecting. I thought it was going to be more comical because everyone was like, oh my God, it's so wild. I was like, it's not that. I mean, I guess I'm from Miami. So being in a, you know, we don't call it polygamy or whatever. It's just like, motherfucker's cheating. But you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:09:56 Or like loose versions of like, yeah, we're kind of open. We don't talk about it. I remember someone I used to know was like, my wife kind of knows I can do whatever I want, but she doesn't tell me, but she kind of says it in her own way. But she kind of just tells me, just don't come home, smell like her. Like he said some sort of version of like, we're in this relationship, but my wife tells me I can do it, but I can't talk about it and I can't smell like it and I can't have any evidence. So it's not that shocking to me to be like, we're talking about, you know.

Starting point is 02:10:23 Yeah. But I am. It's fascinating. She's talking about it on camera. The crazier part to me is that he's so wealthy and that she's talking about it. Because there's one thing I know about wealthy families is that they do not like their dirty laundry being aired. So I do find that kind of interesting that he's part of this like prominent Rhode Island dynasty. And here she is being like, I don't work.

Starting point is 02:10:43 He's got these people. Like I'm like, okay. I'm locked in. Yeah, yeah. I would just love it if she were 10 years older. Just to give it 10 years old. Don't be an ageist. I know.

Starting point is 02:10:53 I know. I am in ages to people. my age. It is unfortunate. I really, really am. That's why I haven't seen a single episode of Summerhouse. I'm like, I don't need to see drunk people my age hanging out. I did that all of my 20s. It's a reason I don't drink anymore. I've been there, done that about the T-shirt. See, I love the interpersonal relationships with Summer House. You know, one thing it made me think about. Sierra, if you're Sierra. Other Sierra. You are so good at being Sierra, by the way. Thank you. I'm assuming you can't ever be friends with Amanda again. To what degree would you go

Starting point is 02:11:23 out of your way to make your other, make sure your other friends are also not friends with Amanda. I mean, I don't think it's so much about going out of my way. I think that hopefully if I have real friends, they're also like-minded. And the idea that she could do that to me just kind of shows that she's not somebody that could be trustworthy. So I would hope that my friends would make that decision for themselves. What if they were really disappointed in Amanda? And definitely there were conversations that need to be had, but what if they, in the long one, weren't like, hey, I'm not saying I'll never be friends with you. It's just going to be weird right now. I mean, again, that's up to my friend's decisions. I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect my

Starting point is 02:12:04 mental health. And I should hope that the people that care about me the most would also want to do the same. So therefore not putting me in any situations to where I would be around these people before I'm ready to. For sure. But yeah, like I don't think it's something about like four. I just think that most like-minded people would be like, hey, I don't really fuck with somebody who could do that to a close friend, let alone to the person that they made bows to. So yeah, like where I'm like, if this is what the situation is, if you decide to be friends with that person, that's fine. If you're constantly posting hang out with this person on a regular after the fact, then yeah, there's going to be distance or we will no longer probably be friends because I don't fuck with that. I mean, I have been someone. I'm a loyalist. I think of myself as loyal and I mean I mean. it when I say it. So like I've definitely been someone who's been like, listen, you can fuck with them, but if you do, I just don't. And very kind of directly kind of, yeah, just kind of drawing that line. But it made me think over the weekend, when we do that, sometimes like I feel like that's our own ego is telling us that like we don't think losing us is enough. So we want that person to be punished

Starting point is 02:13:10 more. So we make sure that other people also don't hang out with them because like the thought of losing us as a friend should be enough. But like I think sometimes our insecurities will make us make us think it's not. And then that's when we will rally other people to no longer mess with that person. I don't know. Just a thought. Yeah. And I could say like from my perspective, like I can promise you like I, you did not give a fuck about my feelings. I do not give a fuck about yours. So I'm not sitting here going out of my way to figure out how to make your life worse. But I will say that yeah, like I want a safe space around me. And I want to be sure that the people that I'm talking to about what the situation is, aren't the same people that are going to be calling her

Starting point is 02:13:49 next weekend for drinks and perpetuating bullshit that does need to be perpetuated. We're just no longer friends. You don't respect me. So I no longer respect you. For me, it feels like it's just so, like it's, it would be so organic and fluid to lose interest the second I see you with them. So it wouldn't even be like a principle of the matter. Like if I were dating someone and if I were in that situation and I saw someone hang out with that person again, it wouldn't be like a value system. My body would just go, and we're done. Thank you.

Starting point is 02:14:16 You just, we're good. Like, you just, you made it so easy for my body to release you. Yeah. Because it's evident where you stand. Yeah, you should it. You just showed me. So we're good. I will probably still always care about you or the version of you that I thought you were.

Starting point is 02:14:29 Yeah. I'll be sad about it sometimes. I'll be sad about it sometimes. But I'm good. Like, I can be sad and still be over here. I don't think that this is this group. This is a group of people who have been given plenty of signs about their peers to see them as who they are and they rarely if ever continue to yeah yeah which makes it

Starting point is 02:14:47 compelling tv either way we have to go we'll certainly talk more about all this on thursday's episode i am sure there'll be more news in the summer house scandal along with uh who knows what's going on with the mormon wives will jesse draper be in another video with another mysterious man we don't know but we will certainly be talking all about it on thursdays do not forget to check out the attraction reunion if you haven't already. Thank you to our guest, Miguel Luciano, Cynthia Bailey, and Rebecca Jennings from the New York Magazine. We appreciate them all, and we appreciate all you listening. We'll see you on Thursday. Bye-bye.

The Viall Files - E1105 - Scamanda w/ NY Mag's Rebecca Jennings, Dakota Cut, Jessi Draper Rogue & HW w/ Cynthia Bailey

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