The Viall Files - E1108 - West and Amanda, Temptation Island w/ Xavier, Horace Gold, Rachel Zoe Divorce Drama & Alex vs Alix

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Happy Tuesday!! And what a lineup, today we're joined by the one and only Horace Gold, internet diva, bringing the hot takes. We dive back into the West and Amanda saga, unpack the Alix Earle vs. Alex Cooper drama, and ask the real question: is Coachella actually overrated or are we just deep in FOMO? We even get into a little WNBA lore. Plus, Xzavier from Temptation Island is here spilling what really went down with Sydney… are they still together? You'll have to listen to find out!! "I ended a friendship one time because a friend invited my ex boyfriend and I to the same party." The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 4th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: American Home Shield - Listeners can get 20% off select plans today! Just visit https://ahs.com/viallfiles to sign up. See https://ahs.com/contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions. Ollie - Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to https://Ollie.com/viall Tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! Plus, they offer an obsession guarantee – if you're not completely obsessed, you'll get your money back. Ollie. Feed the Obsession. BetterHelp - When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at https://BetterHelp.com/viall   Nutrafol - Let your hair become one less thing taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit https://Nutrafol.com and enter promo code VIALL Quince - Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/viall for free shipping and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro/Household Headlines 26:15 - Horace Joins 58:03 - Xzavier Joins 1:35:44 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @horacegold @xzavierodom25 @susiecevans @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @izeweaver 

Welcome back to another exciting episode of Reality Recap. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the rest of the household and my wonderful, gorgeous wife, who unfortunately obviously has not been with us the past couple episodes. As you just want to say, I lost my dad last week. I'm definitely not in a place to talk about it or get into it, but I am here to be distracted and have fun and put my head in a different mental place. And this is the best place to do it. So we're going to giggle, we're going to laugh,

and let it be a reminder that you never know what's going on in someone's life. So be kind to everyone. And yeah, let's go into it. We got Susie here. Leah's stopping by, Mary, Justin, everyone. It was just like a full house today. How's everyone doing? Everyone have a good weekend?

Did you go to Coachella? No, I just went to the parties. You went to, so you win. That is, like, like, truly influencer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know. You weren't like, went and, like, had fun.

Wanting to go to Be Burellalla? No, I was. Like, oh, I don't know. I was okay with not. It's a lot. Yeah. Like, a full Coachella weekend is a lot and you got to really be locked in and you got to be ready to party. You have to have the right attitude.

You guys, I'm getting my eggs frozen in a month. I'm on vitamins. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm not taking shots right now. Yeah. I will say the crowd was getting ready for Justin at like 3 o'clock. Yeah. So I can't imagine.

Oh, you know what's crazy? Have you guys seen about Coachella the fact that Slater, who's like, like Keshe's little sister crazy party music was playing at 3 p.m. Oh. And then they had David Byrne from the Talking Heads playing at 10.30 p.m. Who's like an old old man. Yeah. Sometimes the timing doesn't quite line up because it's peak heat.

And I'm like, you won't catch me in there. Yeah. Did you still like get all dressed up for these parties or? Well, I am just like not like, I don't think my aesthetic like screams Coachella. So like I had just a cute dress. on in cowboying boots. And when you say like Coachella aesthetic, you mean like...

Decking out. Like layers and layers and lots of bangles. Bangle. Lots of belts I saw this year. Like people were wearing like three or four belts. A lot of body chains. Sparkles. Yeah.

If somebody put me in it, I'd rock it. I also saw a lot of videos of people like getting... They were like my stylist. Like put this together and now I'm fucked. Yes. Yes. I saw a lot of videos of people being like, Like, let's unbox my stylist.

And then it's just like, oh, no. And it looks horrible. Like, it's too much. They put their stylist on blast? No, I don't think this was like their stylist. I think this was like normal people who were like, hey, I don't know how to dress to Coachella. Like, can someone help me? They paid a couple hundred bucks for a stylist to like send them a box of clothes.

And they sent them like inspo photos. Yeah. Fishnet. Just like bad. Just like the brawes that they were saying It was just like, how am I supposed to wear this? Yeah. Yeah.

I definitely had FOMO from Bieber. For sure. Did you watch the video? No, it was too late. I was tired. I watched it the next day. I heard good things. Maybe next year.

People are hating on them. Well, Justin Bieber won't be here. Really? I've seen mixed. I think the people who are hating on them are just like not true fans. Real ones. Yeah, they're not real believers.

And they don't realize that like the only way he was able to play Beauty and the Beat and Baby and Favorite Girl and all of those songs was to play them in front of a YouTube video because he sold his catalog. And that was the only way he could give the fans what they wanted. So really he and he was like discovered on YouTube. It was just such a full circle moment of like, wow, this is, he doesn't have to like do all of the bells and whistles and like. Like he's done that. We've seen that from him. Like this was just about pure talent and sitting and singing. And it felt intimate even though there were hundreds of thousands of people there.

Like crazy. He was really nice to Nelly and I at Christmas party. So we'll forever be Bieber stands. I love that. Natalie, if you could see Justin Bieber do one song live, what would it be? Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's tough. Probably

That should be me Like I wish that I was there to have heard that Yeah Because that should have been you That should have been me Why are you on that song? Because that should be me One less lonely girl

Did you imagine if he did one less lonely girl And then pulled Haley up And like had her be his one less only girl Wow Her childhood fantasy would have actually come true Yeah I think it already did I feel like she's living her childhood

Yeah that is true That is true I am curious to know If they conceived of their second child Saturday night We'll find out soon I mean, watching someone perform on stage is hot. And just like...

The way he was. I know he was. Yeah. Well, we have a great episode lined up for you so much to get into. Amanda and West are really locked and loaded. They are full on. This relationship went from us all thinking it was a bad April Fool's joke. Then they did their joint statement.

And we were like, I guess they're together, but we all kind of doubted it. We're all calling it a situation ship. It was like, this can't be. The internet tried to break them. up but this weekend Amanda posted going into the weekend that hey guys I'm going to get back to my normal life I'm going to start posting which by the way what was she going to do honestly a lot of people pick that post apart but I feel like you I know you get it right you know that if like you know if the internet is like is expecting something from you and you're not going to give it to them that

you almost have to like yeah I know I did see the people like in the group chat it's like what is this you know and I'm like but what else what is she going to do what else can she do And like what? Yeah, what can you do? The alternative is what West did, which is to not acknowledge what's going on and just like post, he's at the final four. Right. And then people had an issue with that. I was going to say, which either way, like, I'm cool with.

That's how I feel. I'm like, they already gave us their statement. They gave us their statement. If you want to just go live your life, I'm cool with that. Don't say anything. And they're living it. They are hanging out at the bars in New York for everyone to see film record videos. They are leaning the fuck in.

they are, they're going for it. They've got to. I mean, Sierra said it herself. Like, what's the next step after you do something like this? You better get married. Yeah. Well, we'll definitely dive into that. We have Horace Gold joining us as well later this episode to dive into all things. Bravo.

We got some Temptation Island to get into. Temptation Island dropped on Friday. We are locked and loaded and watch all the episodes. We are excited to bring you a lot of Temptation Island content. Can announce it all right here right now. But we do have Xavier. joining the show later. Xavier was one of the tempters

that had a very sort of like seductive and, you know, beautiful relationship with one of the couples with Sydney. Spoiler alert. Oh yeah. Just in case somebody has watched.

Oh, yeah. You know, if you haven't watched Temptation Island. Yeah. Spoiler alert, he plays guitar, so it was only a matter of time before she. Yeah. But he seems like a really great guy. We have a chance to talk with him today. Also, just like a just jam-packed week,

doing things a little different this week. We have Joey Fatone, member of InSink. I don't know why I don't need to say this to my audience. You guys all know who Joy Fitton is. But he is with us on Wednesday. It's just like us with Joey unplugged. He's got an amazing documentary out, just talking about just like the life of the boy bands,

how in sync Backstreet Boys got started. It's a fantastic doc. A lot of great insight. But he is with us to talk about his experiences in InSync. It was very nostalgic, a lot of fun. He is an absolute hoot. We got some time with Joey on Wednesday. It's just Joey.

And then on Friday, we got Paul Walter. Hauser, one of my favorite actors out there in Hollywood today. I don't even know why he's sitting down with us, but he is. I think he's like the Phillips Seymour Hoffman over time. He's got a new movie with Mark Wahlberg coming out called Balls Up. It's a buddy comedy that you don't get to see a lot of those these days. But you know him from Blackbird. He was in I Tanya. One of the best actors out there. He steals every scene. He's got such an incredible story. And he's with us. That's going to drop on Friday, just us and Paul Walter Hauser. So you're going to get a lot.

of great content this week so stay with us all a week long Nick if I could I've been working here for a couple of years now and I've never asked you any questions about your time on the bachelor well I have no no I have but I've never asked you about Sean Booth and he did an interview recently and he brought you up I saw that did and and I just feel like you people send it to me did they yeah well I just need to know what you think about all of that because I I'm just, did you pay to be the bachelor? Is that what he said? I think he said you would pay.

How much would you pay? He was like, there's people that would pay to be the bachelor. And he said, maybe Nick Vile paid to be the bachelor. What I saw is, like, what I saw is him being asked if like, if like, does he like really hate me? It was like the rivalry real. And he was like, he said yes. He said that it was real. He said that it was in, that it was definitely like exaggerated on the show.

He was like, talked about like he was like, he was like, on the show it was real, which I was like, okay, yeah. But then, like, I kept, then he kept, like, throwing a couple, like, strays. Felt real. It seems like he really, like, it's still, it feels like it's still inside him, you know, like that hatred.

It's just, it's kind of fascinating how, you know, reality TV, like, is, that is your, I probably have spent less than three hours in his presence. And that was 12 years ago. And I haven't really seen him since. I'm friends with his baby mama now. Like, me and his baby mama. And we get our kids together and we go to the park and we hang out.

Wait, that's cute. Yeah. So this is like extra interesting. I think this sounds like the start of a new show. It definitely like there's no way he doesn't clock that. No, I'm sure. But that's why I was like even like that. That would be less of a reason.

Stranger for to come for Nick right now. Like knowing that our kids are friends. This was 12 years ago. And like, again, like I knew a person and I got an opportunity to go on a team. TV show and I did and he met that same person prior to and like they had a thing and he was the front runner and I get it in that world like we were pitted against each other it kind of feels like he's never really let it go well have you guys did you guys have any sort of like conversation after that season wrapped we did like there are a couple attempts where I tried to we did it like

this fundraiser together it never really seemed to land so he was always just like standoffish like he wasn't willing to like an actual conversation about things or like did Did you feel like you left off on like a good note with him or was... When? When the season wrapped up 12 years ago? No, I mean, I was definitely the butt of their jokes for a long time. Yeah. Which I didn't really, I mean, I moved on a long time ago.

But again, like, it seems like he really remembers me as that person he met on the show, you know, and still catching strays. That's tough. Actually, it's not... It's actually not tough. because I feel like the only person who's, yeah, I was going to say the only person who's, like, throwing strays is probably the person who's losing sleepover. Yeah, exactly.

It is shocking, just how emotionally invested. Speaking of strays, Alex Cooper posted a video this morning. You guys, on TikTok. Wow-za. It feels very out of character for Alex Cooper, basically calling out Alex Earl being like, hey, these passive-aggressive posts and likes and comments that you're doing are weird. Like, just say what's going on.

You didn't sign an NDA. Like, what is this made up beef that we have? Let's talk about it. So there is no NDA. Allegedly. That's what Al-Scooper says. According to her TikTok. Usually in those types of situations, there isn't an NDA.

When you sign someone to your... It's more of, like, a non-dispairge clause. So, like, while they're in business, they, you know, would be, like, not cool from them to disparage each other. But, like, they're two public figures. Say, usually public figures don't sign end. NDA is not to talk about each other. So the fact that they no longer work together,

they're not employed with each other so that non-disperage clause is, my guess, is no longer in effect. But didn't Alex Earle post something about how, like, she couldn't talk about these things? And so, like, people say that all the time. Did she say that?

I definitely would love, I mean, I would have loved if Alex Cooper in that said video would have just kind of said it. Yeah. But it was going on. Did it always kind of do the same thing she's accusing? Alex Earl of doing, which is not of being aggressive. It wasn't passive. Yeah, but still, it was just her being like, hey, like, let's talk about it. Yeah, I honestly see both sides where I'm like,

I kind of see where if Alex Earl feels like she was done dirty and she's just like doing little things, I'm like shade. Like, ooh, like kind of shady. I don't know that I would have, I don't know that I would do it. But then I kind of love that Alex Cooper came out and was like just the only thing the caption was just at Alex Earle. Like, imagine Alex Earle's stomach is dropping to her ass this morning when she wakes up. Like, she is so... She probably woke up in bed next to Tom Brady.

That's true. But it is a weird time for Alex Cooper to be putting any sort of spotlight on herself, given the fact that she just had someone who's been accused of physical assault. Given that she

has just had Dakota on her reality show where everyone seems to have a problem with. She has never once, like, said, addressed it. We have Vanderpunt Villa who's edited him out completely. No, they're not addressed it. I feel like she's led with it. Like, I've only seen clips of Dakota from that show, which tells me that they are very much

promoting the fact that if you want to get some dad talk, which to me feels like really icky, given the fact that what I've always loved about Alex Cooper is that she is very, like, women, pro-women, like, let's lift women up. she had Taylor Frankie Paul on her show. Then to have her alleged abuser on her, like, platform him and have him on her show feels a little hypocritical to me in just the sense of women. Yeah. You know?

It feels like you care more about views and money and what, like, the attention of that reality show and less about like the right thing. I also think, like, if people want to make the argument, oh, you know, these big networks can edit out X, Y, and Z. I feel like then it's kind of like, well, you could just make a statement. being like, hey, like, we're not a big network. We understand this is complicated, but we're going to do our best to move forward. And like, like, I would get that. But yeah, I kind of agree with you where it's like, oh, this is, you're making a statement

about Alex Earle, but like you're not addressing anything else. Anything else? Do you think Alex Earl responds? Do you think this is? Do we think we get the story? We get a story time. We get a get ready with me story time from Alex Earl. I'm out of Alex Earl.

I'm saving for my Netflix show. Oh, yeah. Oh, really? She's kind of like a Netflix show with her family. Oh, so true. They're probably filming right now. Oh, maybe that's what this is about. Maybe she's just.

But why would Alex Cooper give her that kind of gold nugget of like, I mean, listen, like, you know, it'll probably be mutually beneficial, you know, everyone will be talking about them. We're talking about them. Yeah. People obviously take sides. I love them both. But Alex Cooper really gave Alex Earl a gift in terms of like. Content for her show. Content for her show.

And so it's like, it just organically. I just, I imagine more people are going to be prone to be more Alex Earl cited, rather just because, like, you know, people are always rooting for the underdog. And as big as Alex Earl is, I think to Alex Cooper, like, people will see her as, like, Alex Earl worked for Alex Cooper. Mm-hmm. So, like, it's just, there's a lot of layers in terms of, like, people are going to be drawn to side with Alex Earl, I feel it. Well, I guess we'll hear what the story is, and then we'll know who to side with.

Yeah, we got to have a squash the beef. Alex versus Alex and Nick versus Sean. I heard long time ago. I had something to do with when they started their podcast, I'm hearing this second hand. I'm hearing this here saying. But when Alex Earl agreed to do her podcast with Unwell, there were some things that Alex Cooper promised she wouldn't err or expose or whatever.

And it seemed like what I heard is that allegedly Alex did not honor that. I heard that too. Commitment. Yeah. Yeah. She broke a promise of one that was never forgotten. It could be wrong, but didn't Alex Earle's dad just come out and say something similar to that? Like, I feel like the schick is like, just ask Alex Earle's dad because he'll tell anybody.

Maybe I haven't thought. I don't know who her dad is. Maybe we need to reach out. I think he'll just tell us. Let's just ask him for a statement. Yeah, I think he would just tell us based on what I've heard. Great. Great.

Next going deeper, Papa Earl. Yeah. Papa Earl. If you haven't checked out Vial Files Plus, be sure to do it. It's ad-free. All your favorite Vial Files episodes are ad-free. Plus, some amazing content like our reality recap, you dies, were Lay and I. Really get into it.

What was your point the other day on Plus? I was just, okay, so you were saying that Sierra... I'm curious what you think I was saying. This is what I think you and Mary both were saying. Okay. That it was... That Sierra going back, Wawning West. was all ego-driven.

This season? To be clear, I said it was partly ego-driven. We didn't see that as a negative, to be clear, because we all agreed that Amanda cares, we all agree that Sierra cared, which, as far as her friendship with Amanda, that's all that needs to happen, to expect Amanda to not do what she did

if she cares about her friendship of Sierra. But we were discussing, yeah, why Sierra would still be interested in a guy like West. And you and Mary, both saying that it was her ego and I disagreed. I said I think it has absolutely nothing to do with her ego. I think it has to do with her feelings. I think if anything, her ego would have been like, no, don't do this. I like that. I think feelings of love, feelings, like strong feelings for West. You can have feelings and ego. Can't your feelings be anger? I also think that you could

think that you're in love with someone and then years later in hindsight 20, be like, oh, that wasn't love what I'm in now is love right like you can look back at your past relationships and be like that wasn't love even though at the time you felt you were in love yeah but isn't that the i'm saying it's it's it was mostly ego driven was what yes she like why she was even interested in an entertaining west going back to that situation that didn't seem to work out we were just more relating to our experience of like you know what's the thing that causes us to like be drawn to someone. Yeah.

You know, infatuated, have the huts, find them, whatever it is. And then be presented with like a red flag. And we still pursue them and chase them and go after them and ignore our friends and ignore the signals. The heart wants what it was? I have a thought. Could it be the, not ego, but the belief in someone's potential. Could it be that?

You see the light. You see the flashes of like, oh my God, this person has all. of these things here that I love and they make me feel this way. To challenge that. But like what part, so when you're in that situation, doesn't that ego to assume that like you've been given the answer to the test, but you're assuming the answer is wrong and you have a better answer? And is there any part when you're like thinking they haven't reached their potential in that equation? Are you going to be part of the reason they can reach their potential? Yeah. I think it depends also how like the definitions we're using to describe because I think sometimes like I've been in situations where I've

seen somebody's potential and been like I want to be with this person so bad and if they love me enough they'll change for me and I think maybe that's what you're describing is that what you're describing yeah and I've I think yeah there've been times where or I've been able to walk away and been like they didn't love me enough to change and then in hindsight you're like no they don't have the skills or the capacity to become that person they're not there yet even though you saw this potential. So I think it just, I mean, I don't know that we'll ever know, but I see what you're saying in the sense that like, if that's where it was coming from, that she's like, oh, if he loves me enough. But I also think that sometimes you can just love somebody enough and be

like, I'm giving you the last. Where does that love come from, though? It's just a feeling. It's just the way you're drawn to someone. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic. I don't know. There's just something that draws you to someone. Connection. A feeling doesn't mean love, right? Actions, right. Like, no, I don't think. You could realize it was. lust or infatuation or chemistry. After the fact. What? After the fact. I think in that moment. So you think what's drawn Sierra to West over these past two years is some deep love.

I think it's connection. I think it's connection. Yeah. I think there's something about him. There's something about him that she's drawn to and she wants to be with. But what's the thing? And I don't think it's when we're all adults outside of like maybe being our first love. what's the thing when we have that connection or chemistry that makes us like again like having you had haven't you been drawn to people or had chemistry with people you've come to find out you hated or or or or we're bad for you. Yeah. And I don't doubt that you were in them but like love like were you able to build a strong emotional connection with them or well I I have found there was like a term use and I resonated with it so much and I think probably that's what Sierra was.

doing this past season and somebody once said like you have these feelings and then you have logic and there comes a point where you have to insert choice and I was like oh that's such a good way to describe it like I have felt so strongly for somebody but I'm like I have to insert choice because if I let my feelings take over like I will stay in this cycle forever yeah it's easy to be like I can't help my feelings yeah but hold on he's giving it back to her this season you know what I mean like he's pursuing her reciprocating he's rubbing her back he's he's leading her on he's giving her you know to use the gen z terms the breadcrumbs that keep someone invested that seem like things but in reality when you look back it's it's enough to keep what's exactly though no but what i'm saying is

like now we're looking at this through a different lens right because we know what is going on currently but like two weeks ago i was rooting for sierra and west and i was like oh he's inter you know what i mean was like, this is something. See, I felt the spark. But a drunken makeup, a drunken, like, leg rub is like, that's what I'm saying. It's just like, I just think, in retrospect, she'll look back and go, that's not the type of relationship or love that I'm looking for. In retrospect, yeah.

It is, it's like ultimately just breadcrumming. But by retrospect, I mean, like, again, like taking, removing yourself from a situation where you're not necessarily maybe thinking, like, your ego clouds, your judgment, or like, your feelings cloud. your judgment. Like when we have feelings, it fucks up our ability to make a decision. That's what I'm saying. It's feelings, not ego. Feeling is. I just don't think the ego has anything to do with it. You're generalizing feelings to a point where it's eliminating any ability to have, like, ego is a feeling, like love is a feeling, anger is a feeling, sadness is a feeling. You just,

you're lumping feelings as if like. I guess the feelings that we're talking about is like the desire, the. I don't think that it was her. The cause the feeling is the question. Not what was the feeling. And Mary and I suggest that maybe what caused the feeling... I love to get pulled in. Wasn't the fact that like, destiny had a plan for Wes and Sierra. You guys were saying that it was that he burned her in the past

and she was coming back and being like, I'm going to win. Sure. And the entire world was like, you're better than him. You deserve better than him. And the hymn that the world was saying that she's better than was rejecting her. Wait, this season, he was rejecting her? No, two seasons.

Oh, okay, okay. I mean, he's always been rejecting her. Even this season when he was like, I don't want Sierra to get hurt. Right, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was doing the breadcrumming. So, like, to her face, it was like flirting. And making it seem like it was hard to talk to her.

And he was just like, oh, I don't know how to enter her room with Sierra. I'm nervous, you know, like it was all a shtick. The only way you win, talking about winning, is you walk away. And look at her now. That's what I had to do, Dine? Look at that. And she's winning.

He was breadcrumbing. So did I lose? No, you won as well. We're really getting into the weeds. We have a lot of fun doing it. And if you want to, if you can't get enough coverage, go check out Vial Files Plus. It's a two-parter. Two-parter.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, if you're listening to Plus, this is just a quick thing. And you listen to the deep dive where we start talking about it. And then you get to the pop episode where we're still talking about it. It does start. It does start mid-conversation, so just you're going to have to listen to part one.

Well, there's so much to get into regarding Wes and Amanda's love affair, relationship, whatever we're calling it now. And we have a great guys, Horace Gold. I'm sure you've seen a lot of his great hilarious content covering your favorite reality TV and pop culture topics. And he is with us to break it all down next. This time of year always has me thinking about what's in my closet. I'm trying to keep fewer things, but better ones, pieces that are well-made. made and easy to wear all the time. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. The fabrics feel elevated. The fits are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high quality

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You've been? No, I like have this really, I also have a resentment against Coachella because when I was 18, I tried to buy tickets. And they charged my card three times, but didn't give me the tickets. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, hey, so like, you charged it three times. And they were like, sorry, Diva. And I was like, what do you, what do you mean? No, what do you mean?

Run me in my shit. Like, we're like, I want to go. And so I think the Black Keys were playing that year, too. So I was really upset because I really wanted to see them. So ever since then, I've been like, Coachella's fake. Cajella's out. Well, everyone is having kind of same scams. Yeah, there's so many scam stories this year.

And I think it's like, there are so many amazing music festivals. I love Austin City Limits, and I will be there this year. Just because I think, like, it being actually about the music and the vibe and the people. Like, going to a show is like, Kind of a spiritual experience. You know, like, I think it's like so, it's like such, this, like, beautiful human experience to, like, come together and, like, be on, like, one wavelength.

And I feel like it's, like, not prioritized. Well, my first at Coachella experience, so you realize, I learned the hard way that if you don't go with a plan. Right. In clear expectations, you will chase fun all weekend and feel FOMO. Because no matter where you're going, everyone's asking where you're supposed to be. Yeah.

So you're going to that party? You're going to this party? Right. You can go to this person? Right. Yeah, exactly. You lose friends and then you're just like bouncing from constant. You can see seven shows without seeing any shows. I would just sit at Slater and enjoy my life.

Clock it. Addison, I wish I'd seen that because I saw her show twice. And it was, I watched, that was the only one that I was like, that was really good. Well, before we get into all the summer house drama between Amanda and West, what is your favorite thing going on on the internet today that is capturing your attention? There's so much going on. I really, currently, I'm very obsessed with the idea of clavicular.

Just as of entity, the looks maxer. Because I'm like, baby, you're gay. You gay. I think it is an inherently homosexual concept to be concerned with the opinions of other men on how you look. And that being the entirety of your personality is homosexual behavior.

Why is he getting, he's getting like 60 minute interviews. And, like, walked out. It was really wild. So, like, that's my current, like, hyperfixation. But as far as reality TV goes, I am a Rhode Island truther. Yeah. You're locked in to Rhode Island. Locked.

It's good. My buddy is, ma. Like, I live for her. I live for the entire cast. I think it's so good. And I also think I didn't know. I've been to Rhode Island, but I didn't know anything about Rhode Island prior to this. Yes.

It's totally different. Did not know it was an ocean, like, the ocean state. And I was like, oh, there's water there? The whole thing's in the island. Like, oh, North Beach? Didn't know. You guys eat seafood here? Exactly.

Is that the landlock? Literally. Yeah. You thought the island part of the name was just like. No, just for like shit and gigs. Yeah. Like just cute. Yeah.

It just went cute with Roe. Yeah. It's our next baby's name. Exactly. Rhode Island. Kind of cute. Are you a Salt Lake City? Yes.

Yes. And do you feel like Rhode Island has a chance to compete? Because I feel like they're similar in the kind of, it's a little looser little more shenanigans that younger cast seems to be willing to go there go there be a little messy or do you feel like it's too early to compare i am not a housewives scholar okay but what i will say is that i do think salt lake is a particular anomaly of lightning in a bottle that cannot be completely replicated i don't think we will ever have a monica garcia ever again we owe that woman everything forever. And her mom. And her mom. I want her to

have a house purchased by the government. Like, I want her to have a rebate. Like, every single you're like, we as a society really need to come together and like, support Monica Garcia. She deserves everything. Like, thank her for her service. So I don't know that there's another franchise that could emulate and really be on that level of like, what am I actually watching right now? But I do think that there is a, I think that the caveat to Rhode Island that makes it really specific and really beautiful is that they actually know each other and like didn't meet through the show and then have to almost like force this like drama and force these like misunderstandings it's like no there's like beef and tea and like

decades long stuff going on here and like that to me is really fascinating and I love their accents the accents are so good I love their accents does Ashley have an accent no she's not from rodent she's from Virginia yeah she's our little audience POV okay yeah Ashley is a old friend of Great, great. I want to go to their coffee shop. I want to check it out. I want to slower. They're struggling. Let's all go. I know. It makes me sad. And it's a cool coffee shop. They like bring in people to experience like her saying that it was the second. Second. Second. Yeah. Right. What does that mean? Like how do you, what is the metric? I know. She also. Celebrity owned restaurant. Business. Yeah. Business. Something. Let me double

try. After Bon Jovi. In Rhode Island. No. No. In general. Generally. Yep, in the country. But I don't know what that means. So what is it second most what? It's the second rated celebrity-owned restaurant in the United States. Second-rated. Rated.

Second-rated celebrity-owned restaurant in the United States, Bon Jovi being number one. So it's critically acclaimed. So it's like it's rotten tomato scores like 98% by the critics. It's a beautiful coffee shop. If you're in the area, you should check it out. They'll have great coffee. Truly, truly the quote I can find from it about it is her saying. We should ask where she got that information.

Let me see. What is Bon Jovi? What is that location like? J.BJ's Soul Kitchen. J.BJ. Where is it? New Jersey. Okay.

Northeast. Can I imagine maybe it's the... Thought. Maybe it's the metrics. Because, right, you have Bon Jovi in Jersey. Bon Jovi is essentially Jesus Christ walking on wall. Someone could say Bon Jersey. Bon Jersey, yeah.

And it's like, so obviously it's going to be popular specifically in Jersey within the tri-state area. Right. Then you go to Rhode Island. Obviously, Jared is a huge Rhode Island guy. Rhode Island, obviously, we have seen from the show. Taitka community cares about their people, so they're going to support. Do you think Gia Judice's Italian restaurant is going to... Come for Jody's?

Come for J.B.J. Come for J.B.J. Soul Kitchen. Oh. Sol kitchen. Like, do we feel like maybe there's some competition heading to the Jersey area? Well, okay. J.BJ.

Shole Kitchen is a nonprofit community restaurant established by the the John Bon Jovi Soul Foundation. Love the soul. There's a lot of emphasis on soul here. I'm still confused on how she came to determine that she was the second best. I feel like maybe Ashley did the research herself and was like, what are all of these celebrity owned restaurants and cafes rated? And then she's like, oh, Audrey's is the second best.

So then she was just like, we are. We are. We are. We should ask her. But on the show, their storyline is struggling. It's not doing that well. How long have they had it? Oh, I don't know. And it's like, it's Jared's like, you know.

I'm pretty sure. Like when you open a restaurant or a business, like statistically, it takes like three to five years to even like not even make a profit. Like people say it's like three to five years, you're truly just in debt losing money. And that's like Jared. He like he chose that life where like, you know, he's been lucky to do other things and, you know, as a social media following. But he chose to like. Choose the hardest thing. Choose the hardest thing. And it's like it's his passion. And he was working 15, 16. hour days. She's at 100 hours a week. Because it's like, I'm sure it does so much better when he's there serving drinks. When he's not there, people come in and he's there like, I think he's there at like five in the morning and he's getting home at like nine at night.

Okay, I did find the list that does rate it as number two, which is lovefood.com. Lovefood. Lovefood.com says it's number one, John Bodjovi, J.BJ.J. Soul Kitchen. Number two, Ashley Kennedy and Jared Haybin, Audrey's Coffee House and Lounge. Number three, Nicholas Braun, Ray's, Pebble Bar, S&P, Jet. Where is Goop Kitchen? Yeah. Sorry.

Where's Guinan? Norman, Redis, Nick and Normans from Walking Dead is number four. Where's Paula Dane? Yeah. What number is that? I mean, Michael Jordan's Steakhouse number seven. These all sound like money laundering schemes. I'm sorry.

Zach Raff's mermaid oyster bar is number nine. Zach Raff has a mermaid oyster bar? I love an oyster bar. I love an oyster bar. Jack Brap is a partner in mermaid oyster bar. a high-end seafood restaurant with coastal vibes in Greenwich. So that's interesting. I feel like that's a very, like, broad stroke categorization of, like, who gets to claim.

Because it's like partner is very different than owner. Yeah. And so, like, like, Jared's serving the coffee. Right. Like, that feels like it's unfair to say that they're the same. Zach Brad probably is not eaten at his restaurant. He has a scrubs reboot to worry about. He has a call time at 7 in the morning, tomorrow.

We're talking about. All right, Summer House. You're watching Summer House? I'm keeping up to date with the Summerhouse drama. I'm going to be really honest. I tried to watch it. And I was like, I need more gay people. Southern hospitality.

That's where I'm going next. What I will say is that there is a lot of people who like me are like new to knowing about Summerhouse and are like, West, like, this guy, I'm not going to lie to you. It would. Would it work on me as well? Yeah. It would. West is hot. West has the swag.

He does. He has like a charismatic. You just have to talk to him. He has to open his mouth. I don't see him in a grocery store. I don't see him at a bar and I'm like, give it to me. Like, you have, he's just... You see him on the dance floor.

You know what I mean? You see him like... I've seen photos of him and then I watched him work. Yeah, yeah, sure. And the juice. The juice. It's the vibes. The juice.

Which I think is actually an interesting parallel to the like clavicular world where I'm like, you can do all the looks maxing, all the jaw smashing that you want to do. But if you have the person, of a piece of sandpaper. Right. I am not touching. Well, I also correct me if I'm wrong ladies, but I think you guys like the idea of a guy who effortlessly can talk to women or, like,

has success with girls as opposed to the guys who are, like, thinking they have to go out and, like, put a hammer to their cheekbone. Oh, yeah, that would, I mean, that gives me sick. I'm scared. Yeah, I'm terrified of that man. You don't, like, it's not attractive to know a guy who spends more time getting ready than you, right? Like that's in ick.

For sure. Yeah. Although West does put a lot of effort in those outfits. Like he is definitely... He does not put a lot of effort into his hair? Because I feel like his hair majority of the time you're like, can you just move it? I think he's putting a lot of effort. I think he spent like $600 on his haircuts so he would not have to put effort in.

And it kind of looks like he didn't but did. And you have the question. I'm also really attracted to, like, platonically friendship-wise. I'm really attracted to like a straight guy who's like, oh my God, you're so cute. like to his like friend like there's something about that security but I'm like that's so attractive like that's so like like him being able to go to kj being like do you want to talk about your anxiety like having that like softer side yeah totally I will like him and Amanda going out in public I will say her statement being like guys I gotta go to work I gotta go I gotta leave my house right

mental health declining no I was like honestly here for it yeah the only thing that was weird about it was her trying to like cover her head with a scarf. Yeah, that was just be you, it's like we know it's you. Like she has a scarf, she has a sunglasses, but she's out with West. Yeah. Right. She's like, you didn't bring your

scarf? Where's your hoodie? Right. She's also out in like New York City where even Zoran Mamdani has commented on Weston and Amanda. Like, girl, the scarf is not hiding you. I am definitely of the mind though that like, I don't know, this is a hot, hot take.

Cheating is a bad thing to do. And not even cheat. They didn't even cheat. Right, right, right. But like, that we know of. Yeah. Like, relationship indiscretions, I should say, as a general blanket. Sure.

They are, like, socially disruptive things to do. Do I think that you don't deserve a job and, like, a normal, like, style of living? No. I'm sorry. Like, we're not, like, taking these people to the stocks. because she like got with her friend's ex. She did not commit a crime. This is legal.

I'm sorry, it is legal to be an asshole. Sorry. I will say I've seen a lot of people give the take. Amanda, you could have had anybody. Like you could have had anybody and you chose West. And I do understand that to an extent. But I also think being in this world, like I have maybe seemingly have access to people and men. I find it really hard to find someone to date in my position.

And she's in an even, you know, like a bigger platform, more followers, more unique situation. I don't think it's as easy as everyone makes it sound to just find somebody else to date. Like how many dating apps are you on? None right now. And what part of the reason why? Because like you're probably pretty nervous of like going on Hinge and like, hi, I'm Susie Evans. Getting screenshots it or like made fun of or like it's or people looking you up or whatever. But that being said, I understand like, sure, like she probably shouldn't have gone for West.

I also think we talked about this a few weeks ago where I'm like he was a good friend to her on the show. And yes, she was in a relationship during that time. But like maybe she had a soft spot for him. And then when they both were technically single, like, yes, it's like, like you said, it's a faux paw and it's not, it's disruptive. And it's maybe horrible. I don't know. But at the same time, I feel empathetic towards her because I'm like, this was a shoulder to cry on this. He made her feel safe. I know. He was like, a good friend. It was probably very scary for her to date. She probably felt super alone. Yeah. And he was there. And I'm not saying that that takes away from Sierra's experience at all because... No, yeah. Amanda's definitely a bad friend in Sierra. Yeah, exactly. I think, I mean, I definitely think West is more the villain. 100%. He was like level-headed.

He was like sober making these decisions. Right. Amanda was like drunk on divorce and grief and like being treated like absolute shit for the last 10 years. Terrified what's it going to like to date for the first time in 10 years? It's a public figure with a following and a bunch of expectations. Which like doesn't excuse it. She definitely deserves to like lose that friendship with Sierra. I hope that they can maybe rebuild it in the future, take some time apart, whatever.

But like West knew what he was doing. He knew he was hanging out with his ex's best friend. He knew he was hanging out with his best friend, Kyle's ex-wife. And like building some sort of relationship there. Like you knew what you were doing. You 100% had this like level-headed energy. So I feel like he. He's definitely the culprit of...

Yeah. But no one's going to hold him to any sort of standard. They're going to just like make it the woman's fault. I definitely think it's weirder of West. I agree with that. Because I think it's like a, I think it's a weirder betrayal to Kyle. Like it's like that's like when... Post marriage, it's different than like, no shade, but like a situation ship.

Like it's not the same thing, but it's like that's your homie's ex-wife dog. Like that's crossing a different. border, but I do have a question of a hypothetical. Like, keeping it just Sierra and West, like, what is the statute of limitations on, like, dating? Your friends, ex. Forever. Forever.

I think it depends if your friend cares. We discussed at length of, like, whether, like, why should Sierra care, you know, should she like a guy like West? And that's a whole different discussion about, like, we've kind of chased the wrong people before. but I think you still have the right to be like, I don't know, yeah, they're bad for me, but to not want any of your friends to ever fuck with them ever forever. Yeah.

I think also it's less of Sierra wanting West and more of her being like, this person hurt me so bad. And now you're... Why would you? Yeah. And now I have to sit here with this and watch him treat you better than he ever treated me and be there for you in a way he wasn't there for me. like that's what I feel like it's more about

than her being like I wanted him and like I wish he was you know it's just like damn this is like the knife is in my heart and now y'all are turning it that's how I see it and it's also like Amanda was there and there for Sierra while this was all going down with West so it's like you watched what he did to me and you're still

going for it which I think that's what damn it's so but yeah complex yeah and mind you I ended a friendship one time because a friend invited my ex-boyfriend and I to the same party. Yeah. That was enough.

That was enough. We had been friends for like eight years. And this was like the love of my life. And I was like, why am I saying his name on a part of all? What's going on with that? Did you make a TikTok about this? I thought that. I thought that to talk.

I want to be like free love. Like everyone, we can all share. Who owns another? No. Make out with anyone. Literally. Yeah. And then you do.

and you're like, from a friendship standpoint, like, you know, again, Sierra is talking about loyalty over the weekend. Like,

if you're Sierra, there's just no world where you can ever just know that like in any given situation that Amanda's going to have your back. Right. You know, when you get in adulthood,

for me, like, I talk about this all the time. Like, you have your friends, but like that, to me, it's like people you can hang out with

and are a good time or a cool hang and they're entertaining and it's like good to see you. And then you have your people who are like in adult life, you're like, I need this person.

life, you know, and if you're not married or you don't have like a romantic partner, like, you know, you have a couple people. And if Amanda was ever that person to Sierra, I don't think she can never be that person because Amanda made it very clear that, like, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what Sierra cares about. Amanda's going to, she's going to do what she wants to do. And like, it shouldn't have been that hard for Amanda been like, I just, I can't go there. Yeah. And for whatever reason, she was able to like convince herself. And it was probably West. It was probably like, hey, listen, Sierra cares about. whatever, she hears about everything, or downplay it, it's not a big deal.

Oh, 100% Wes was in her ear being like, I, I, I, I, I, we never really dated, like, whatever. I also feel like he was like, we shouldn't tell, you know, like, let's not tell her. Oh my God, it'll hurt her feelings. It would hurt her feel, like, she probably wouldn't, like, be your friend anymore. Like, we just shouldn't tell her. Let's just keep it on the DL. If he did that, to me, that is the biggest sin of it all.

If he convinced her to keep quiet, like, I have been in that position, not in not in that position, but I've been in a position where a guy's been like, I don't want to like make this a big thing or whatever. And then it comes across as like shady. And you're like, I wanted to tell the whole time. I wanted to be transparent. I wanted, you know, I wanted to be forthcoming. And you scared me.

And you scared me. And I listened to you. Like, I'm trusting you with so many other aspects. And I took your advice on this. And now I'm the one getting heat. If he convinced her to be quiet, which we don't know. But if he did, that is like. Which I'm sorry.

Also, how old are we? We are all adults. Right. Like I, you cannot convince me at a certain age to do something that I'm like, uncomfortable doing. Especially in a friendship that means so much to me. Like,

100%. I think we have to like also be like, she was not like chloroformed and fucking. Well, yeah, I think both things can be true. Like you can, you can say Amanda, not a great friend.

Right. And then you can, I think you can still have empathy for like understanding where Amanda was coming from. Not that you, not that it still, you know, she was a bad friend. But it's more.

more like, I think that's what we're all kind of saying. It's just like, West was like, you know, yeah, a man that can have any guy she wants. But it's a lot difficult though in practice. West, for everything we know, had been kind of hooking up with any woman he wanted to. And wasn't having a hard time meeting people. And was allegedly exclusive with like some other women. He wasn't just getting started in the dating world. It was just like, but why this person?

I, who does I have a question for you? Let me. So you're you know, I've been wanting to pose this question for so long and finally there's someone again is. Let's go. West Wilson and Sophie Cunningham's podcast. Ugh. I feel like that was the original time. That was the last thing I was expecting you to bring up. I went to Phoenix for the women's final four and Sophie Cunningham, her face is the first thing you see.

In the airport. Yes. And it was a jump scare then and it's a jump scare now. I blacked out. What about? She scared the phone. So their podcasts. Yeah.

I avoid it. Is that... Yeah. I mean, me too. I just feel like that is the first thing. Is she like a villain in the WMBA? Yes. Yes.

Yes. I'm triggered. Mary's convinced we're missing out on the WMBA. Oh, you are. The WMBA, like, if you love sports, awesome. If you love hot, mess, tea, drama, lore, it's the best reality to you. So, like, when you ask, what are you watching? I'm watching the WMBA, like, draft updates because there's so much tea going on around.

Is EZee Fun going to play with Paige Becker is her girlfriend? Do we still know if ASE and Paige are still dating? Yeah, that's the real question. That's the real question. Let me break it down for you really quickly just to give you, like, just a little teaser of what it's like. There is a player named Dijunay Karrington. There's a player named Jackie Young. There's a player named Nalissa Smith.

Nalissa and Dijunay played together in college. they were dating they broke up they got back together after a very viral clip of Dijonay falling on the ground and Nalissa picking her up by the small of her waist and we all went oh that's hot ooh I'm turned on they got back together they broke up in a fiery rage Nalissa was traded to Jackie Young's team

the Las Vegas Aces Nalissa and Dijana broke up whatever whatever they hate each other Dijunay and Jackie Young are now dating Nalissa and Jackie are teammates Dijna is dating her girlfriend's teammate Oh no It's all hot

Like it's all It's summer house It's literally all And they all play basketball So it's like That's the level of like mess That we're talking about Where it's like

You it is literally Sports and drama Yes West Sierra Amanda But they're lesbians But they have to run a play And they have to work together But we have to win the title And one

Wow Exactly So I live for for the drama In the NBA It's the best. But also they're like, it's just the, they're incredible athletes as well. But it's with a side of mess. Are any of them going through a divorce while, while sharing custody of a child?

That did happen. It did. Yeah. So I believe it was Alyssa Thomas. But I could be wrong with this. But so long-star shit, yes, that has happened. And now she's engaged to her team as well. Because right now, in the valley, we have Jesse and Michelle going through a divorce, sharing a child together.

We have Rachel isoe, who's on our first season of Beverly Hills. Her big storyline has been talking about her divorce And they have two kids together And apparently he's got a girlfriend Of two years, but they've only been divorced for a year Unclear, I don't know about that timeline No, I thought she did say they had been together for two years And then I was like looking into it and I was like, you all got divorced last year

Well, well, maybe when that's when the legal show I guess they're separated The overlap is still whatever Well when you're watching the show When you're watching the show like you know you're just getting Rachel's POV. POV.

And her POV is like, my ex-husband's a piece of shit. And he is forcing his new girlfriend onto my children in a way that we're all like. And kind of doing scenes with her kids of like,

you're uncomfortable when she's around. And they're like, yeah, we don't want her to pick us up from camp. Well, yeah. And so recently, the new girlfriend has decided that she is

done not, you know, taking the punch. Catching stray. She's done being silent. So she is speaking up. And I'm like so fascinated by this. I'm sorry. Like, Forrest is such a...

No, no. You decided to enter into a relationship with a man who's ex-wife is high profile. You knew what you were getting into. You knew that this was a possibility. Sitting here and being like, I'm the victim. I must speak up.

It's like, no, the fuck you don't actually have to. So she knew what she was getting into. She knew what was the timeline, diva. How soon was he divorced from? man when he got with him. All right. I don't know the timeline of when he got with her post-divorce, but this is what she shared on her

Instagram story. The image is a picture of Rachel Zoe on Beverly Hills talking about her. Since so many of my friends reached out, I wanted to set the record. She didn't say straight, but I imagine she said set the rich straight. One, my birthday

is September 2nd, one day after hers. Not three. Two. We were all concerned. We were stressed. That was the first thing I was Thank you for bringing out. We have been dating for almost two years. Three, I'm actually a businesswoman

who happens to style, not a celebrity stylist, but you do you girl, respect. See, that's not that big that she's not done. Four, leave me the fuck alone. And then after that, five, what's so insane? You did not want to be married

and said it yourself, you wish you left seven years ago. You're acting like a jealous woman. Get a new storyline. I'm not going any. So get used to it. I'm not going anywhere. I just leave me the fuck alone.

She pays that poor leave. Number one. And maybe she should have sent it to her. Well, that's what I'm saying. Don't say, don't say you don't want to be a part of the narrative and then like put yourself in the middle of it. So many of my friends have checked on me. Which I couldn't tell. I'm going to make a public statement instead of just texting the back.

Right. And is that friends like or is she one of those people who calls her followers? Hi friends. Like I couldn't tell where that. was coming from. Yeah. And also, the reason that I don't like this woman, no shade, she misspelled relevant. I read that statement earlier.

And I don't wear her because she's stupid. And I don't associate it. My birthday is actually one day after her. I mean, if you think about it, it was really giving a pretty wild Nancy Joe. This is Alexis Naird. And I don't want you know. You said that I was wearing a four inch kitten heel. And it was not like these semantics.

Like these semantics are not actually relevant. spelled correctly to anyone in the world that I'm like you putting yourself in the middle of this is like I think that you as the OG as the original wife the mother all that you have carte blanche in perpetuity talk your shit forever diva like you are able to have whatever emotional experience you want and when you are coming in as the second string sports reference you need to know your place and understand that there is a whole world there's a whole ecosystem that is is built without you in it and will thrive without you in it. And be normal and talk your shit with your girlfriends at drinks and at dinner and be like,

this stupid bitch is on a reality show talking shit about me. Don't put it on your story. Like everyone gives us up. That's what I was thinking of. I mean, think about our toxic relationships and our, you know, if you had a relationship in your 18, 19, 20. Yes. Some of the crazy shit we did when that relationship went bad.

Yeah. You know. The retweets. Whatever it was. Or just how we interacted with them if we ran into them and they're dating someone else. Now imagine, to Horace's point, building a whole life with this person. Right.

Having kids together, building a family. And then it doesn't work out. And then they start dating someone new, and that new person's hanging out with your kids. Your kids. People have your DNA. And they are, like, being parented by your ex's fling. Yeah. And I, and I, and if you're a business woman who also styles.

If you're the fling, I hear you. But, like, I just like, yeah. I was going to say, I hear the fling too, though. devil's advocate, I'm like, somebody's got to do... They were together for two years. They've been together for two years. Yeah, yeah.

People are allowed to date, but I'm just saying from Rachel's standpoint, I just like, whatever she wants to feel. And I think I would be the same way. But I also am like, it's somebody's job to come in here and date this man. And like, she's doing it.

And also, devil's advocate, maybe... He doesn't need one. Maybe she's not actually trying to get out of the spotlight. Maybe this is her call to say, put me in. You know what I mean? And like, and here's the thing.

But she couldn't say put me in. She has to go about and saying, leave me out of this. Let me make a statement. And like, I don't blame her. You know, maybe she wants a little attention out of this. And she's like, if I'm getting drawn into this and like let me just capitalize. But like you have to play the victim card to do that.

Like she couldn't just insert. But don't piss on my face and tell me it's gay to raid. That's what she's doing. That's what she's doing. Be sincere about your intentions here. And like if you actually wanted to mend the relationship and solve and heal and really have this. She said, I wanted a modern family, but Rachel didn't. Or whatever it was in the statement. Honestly, if I'm Rachel, I really hate her now after that

that state. I'm like, okay. I'm a modern family, but you didn't. Like, no, we're not a family. Yeah. But if that was your intention, then like the very last thing on the list to do in pursuit of that is an Instagram story with the word relevant misspelled. Like, I think you don't have conflict resolution skills and you're dumb. Like, no. I think like that, I think it's so transparent and I also think it's really to be significantly younger than both of them as well because she's 36 I assume Rachel's ex is like a similar age range to her like you're coming in as this like 36 year old woman to this like again this ecosystem that is existing like to be like I'm gonna be here forever it really gives like you don't understand the nature of the arrangement because like what will be forever is that she will forever be the mother of his children we've already seen that this man is not. not against a divorce. So saying that you're gonna be around for a long time, like girl, there's actually no guarantee

that that's true, but what is true is that they are genetically and forever bonded to one another. So you will always be outside of that fray. Do not poke the bear, Diva, because like, if it's gonna happen, he's gonna pick his, the mother of his children. Yeah. Even if he doesn't want to.

Even if he doesn't want to, he legally has to because of the custody. Bound by the state and God's America to pick Rachel Zelle. This hasn't been so much, did you watch temptation Do you want to stick around and talk about or reach something on your wish You've been?

So let's, why don't you stick around interview Xavier? Can I, can I pee? Yeah. He's here? Xavier's, he's going to be on via, he's joining us remotely.

Way, I live. Well, we have Xavier up next. So why don't we get to Xavier, horses got to pee, and then we'll bring on sexy guitar playing Xavier. Best day my life. Hey, all you dog, parents out there. I know you love your dogs as much,

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expert to help assess or even fix an issue over the phone, which can be a huge help when you're not sure what's wrong. Don't worry, be warranty. Listeners can get 20% off select plans today. Just visit aHS.com slash vile files to sign up. See aHS.com slash contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations, and exclusion. Xavier, welcome to the show. I appreciate you guys having me. Thank you. Thank you. We're excited to have you. It was a fun season to watch. We're really excited to hear about your story, but I am just curious

in general, how does someone like yourself who honestly seems like great boyfriend material? Such a gentle soul. Yeah, just like, how'd you end up being a tempter? A guy who's supposed to be, you know, like stealing another guy's girl. How do that come to be?

Man, let me tell you, I was asking myself the same question. I was like, do they know I'm just a regular engineer type of guy? But I don't know, I think my approach, like I wasn't even going on there with the intent or even. even like the follow through like stealing. They were just trying to grow community.

And like, I don't know. I think just my approach was, you know, uniquely myself. And I was pleased with it. I imagine your connection with Cindy caught you off guard in a way that maybe you didn't expect. Yeah. No, I think intent of, you know, growing community, friendships and like the whole of like a romantic relationship or experience. But to see it in a way where it was almost like seamless.

That was really surprising. But like a good surprise, obviously. How was it watching it back? Did you feel any sort of way toward Mikey? Or did you just have all the backstory of Sydney's side that you were kind of like, I see right through this guy? To be candid, I was just only concerned about how me and Sydney were looking. And then all my guys, all the friends in the house.

I'm like, I've always been telling who's, you know, focus on, you know, what's right in front of me and what I can control. And, you know, Sydney was right in front of me the whole time. Have you ever been a Mikey in past relationships where I don't yet because like just watching the show, he just seemed like I was really fascinated by their relationship in the sense that, you know, he seemed like a guy who really took for granted his girlfriend and, and like saw her as like his hometown girl that like he took for granted. And then all of a sudden you came in and you're giving her the attention she deserves. And it was like he started seeing her in a whole new way. I mean, it was, you know, like, he watches you make out with his girl, and his first thought is, we can make this work. You know, like, it's like, but did you have to learn the hard way?

I'm curious, what brought to the point where you seem like a safe place and, you know, like a face like yours and talent like yours? You could be playing the kind of the fuckboy car, but it doesn't seem like what you're all about. How did you get to this place of emotional maturity and groundedness? I think that's something that happens with time. Okay. Luckily, I feel like I had just a great display of what a relationship in and should be. My parents have been, you know, knowing each other and being together since, like, middle school. So as far as, like, communication, working through the hard time, just, and learning, so on.

I feel like I had a good foundation for what that looked like. Okay. And then just over time, through just my own experience of learning how I can show better in the space. And how to be a good listener, like, I feel like that's one thing that, like, Sydney, you know, or feedback to me was just, like, I guess clear boundaries, listening, and I'm trying to actually like hear her. I usually am like an anti-gatar kind of guy, but the electric guitar was a nice surprise. I was like, wait, this is different and I'm kind of into it. It's glad that it was like an acoustic.

I'm glad I didn't bring my acoustic then. I mean, I'm sure you are talented enough to play both. Of course. But the electric was definitely a nice, like, oh, he's edgy. The way it aired, though, and the best way for you, Xavier, is if, like, it just, there happened to be a guitar line down, and you just kind of, like, decided to kill time by, like, plucking on a few strings as opposed to being the guy who's, like, I can play music.

Yeah, everyone come listen. You're right. I'm telling you, as far as, like, everyone brought, like, their own thing to Island for, like, recreation time. Okay. I'm, like, a language, a book, practicing, a journal. No, literally. He's perfect.

He's amazing. Yeah. I mean, definitely was something just like, you know, when we're like sitting around in the villa or the house with all the guys that we called the barracks, like we would just be messing around. Like I taught a couple guys and then one of the guys who played, we were playing and stuff. So I know. It brought a good vibe thing.

Can I ask a question? Who came up with your like entrance lines? Because some of them were tragic. And I just need to know. where that came from. It was team after. I can't speak on everyone's. I know myself, you know, like, being a tracksterner past, like, I gave some context

or, you know, what my thoughts were for some ideas. And then just it was, you know, team aspect of just like, you know, what we were thinking and then what producers were thinking. So I know, like, some people, my roommate, like Braden Holiday, like, I'm pretty sure he came up with his, like, off-rip. And this was pretty good. Like, it didn't get aired, but it was like, his name is Braden Holiday. and he's like, my name's Braden Holiday

and like, I'll be your favorite, like, holiday away from her boyfriend or something. So, I mean, like, some people's were pretty good. Because some of them are like, my dad's Willie Wonka, and I'm going to suck your cock. And I was like, what is going on? What is that? I was like, huh?

Like, what's your name? I don't know how the two are related, but okay, hey. Willie Wawke. That is true. Some are a little boring. I will say there was like a spectrum. There was a speck. I got to ask, as a former track guy myself, what was your event?

My event was the 400 and the 400. Mine was the 400 and the 800, Xavier. What was your time in the 400? What was your time? What was your time? My 400 was 468 and then my hurdles were 513. 468's really fucking good. I was a 47-1.

Oh, shoot. You weren't legit. Oh my God. He was the state champion of Wisconsin. 151 in the 800, Xavier. No, that's solid. Not 46-8. What?

I ran at Wisconsin and UWM back in the day, a long time ago. Big Ten. Oh, so? Yeah. Big Ten. Big Ten guy. I'm from Wisconsin. Damn.

You know about the Big Ten? I'm a basketball guy. I know about the Big Ten. Morris likes me more now. I really do. I really do. That endeared me. That endeared a lot to me.

Did you ever get a chance? Xavier to confront or meet or talk to Mikey in a way, like, I guess post leaving the island alone that Mikey did and you left with his girl. Did you ever have a chance to have like a guy chat or a heart to heart? Did any interaction with you and Mikey take place that we didn't get to see that we might have wanted to hear about? No, there was no interaction that took place. And to be frank, I really didn't have any need to on my bad ass. You don't even know to know his middle name.

Yeah. What was up with Kai's intro package, the like, dude, dude, dude, duh, yeah, it was duh. Surfing, duh, sunlight, duh.

C-T-E, duh. C-T-E, duh. No, early on, we knew Kai had some crazy good energy. That, he said, that's a whole other type of thing. but oh my gosh like we were just having my age for three and we were just standing that everyone was saying duh um like on the on the on the little sinus on temptation island season two we wanted to put like duh on the end of

but now i don't know how he came over that mess especially on the fly he also disappeared yeah yeah he said duh 90 times and then we never said bloody married but per surfers were there any connections in your house that uh we didn't get to see that you were surprised didn't get aired. I don't think they really went in depth as much with Brad and a Scarlet's connection. Okay. Like, they were locked in, like, early on. As far as just, like, two people, same age range, just, like, same, like...

Depth? I don't know about similar, like, upbringing, but, like, similar, like, depth. Communication-wise and just, like, values. It just, like, they were a seamless pair as well. Like, both myself and Sid and, like, them two. I don't know, there's a lot of align in it. So I feel like they just didn't, like, go as deep into, what that was, but there was a lot with it.

It is so funny watching the show and just seeing the, like, stark difference between the two houses and how it's just like, phone party, girls, twerking, and then the guys, it's like, we're going to do a talent show. Yeah, was that the lady's idea, or was it your guys' idea? Because it almost felt like watching the show, because, like, early on, it's less like the temptances. It's like, yeah, they just put on their bathing suits, move around,

and the guys are just like, you know? And I feel like the women are a little bit of a slow burn. They want to like talk to the guys. It's a little chill. I almost felt like the women are making you guys do backflits as a way to like make you guys give them the ick in a way to protect them from themselves. I've never met. I never thought of that.

I've never met a woman who was turned on by a backflip the way that guys are turned on by other men doing backflips. Like I see a guy do a backflip. I'm like, that's fucking cool. Taye Lawner is turned on by backflip. Yeah. I know. Yeah. So how did that come to be?

Yeah, no, there's definitely like start time fast between the two different houses. I mean, I think that's just like knowing your audience. Like as far as just like, you know, have an empathy with the girls in the house and just like understanding that like, I guess, sitting those, sitting in those emotions early on might be a little bit harder to, you know, in parallel, put yourself out there, get to know these new guys. Oppose like guys who like might just be like simpler creatures in some ways, you know, to just like release a little bit of those, you know, sad feelings and still put themselves out there. Okay. That means you have, like, what time. I feel like we got there. Granted, we didn't have, like, any type of, like, lingerie party,

but, I mean, like, they loosened up. They loosened up. Okay. Do you guys, like, discuss the outside world as far as, like, if you and Sydney left the island together? Like, do you discuss, like, the logistics of, like, where do we align politically? Do you want kids? Where do you want to live? Like, do you talk about that real stuff?

Or do you think the majority of the experience is sort of, like, caught in that haze of, like, we're in Hawaii and, like, you are leaving your boyfriend? Like, what? How real do those? those conversations get that we don't get to see. Yeah, no, the conversations got extremely real. Like the death fight went into how we grew up, you know, bringing like the school districts we were in,

how that shaped us, like family values and values in other spaces as well. So like we really dive deep into each other. I'm just curious, Xavier, watching the show. What I really enjoyed this season was to see, usually when we watch these shows, it's always like the men going to these islands seemingly like convincing the girlfriends to go and taking advantage of the situations they find

themselves in. I always wanted to have a three. Yeah. You know, like last season, you know, but like this season, it was like, it seemed to be the opposite where it was a lot of women like being frustrated with their current relationships, feeling underappreciated, undervalued, and things like that. And I'm just curious watching it back, have you ever been on their side of things? And, you know, like, what did you think of that being like a guy who was like, it seemed like the men on the on this side we're like not like the fuck boys but guys who were there to like listen and like you know show up in ways that maybe they weren't receiving in their other relationship and I'm just like curious like what was your perspective on that you know I thought it was a unique

situation too because like like I said I can only control myself but just um like one thing they didn't show in there which like I guess might not be reality TV but like like we had like a family dinner I'm like I've never been invited to like a Thanksgiving like like the friends giving type thing. I've always wanted that. We had that. So, I mean, I think that just spoke to how close in it of a unit we were. You know, we were actively trying to, like you said, take advantage of the situation. I feel like there's just alignment across the board with, like, all the guys in the house that we were just trying to leave the girls on the better position than what they came in. That being said, like, either going back to the partner, staying, staying by

themselves, you know, finding a new connection, but just like, actually trying to be there, you know, and be like a solid sound board friend for them yeah beautiful any other questions for Xavier before we let him go thank you for your service really I feel like that's something I should say as a woman I just feel like you were a really great representation of like a kind good person you weren't putting pressure on it for it to be anything outside of emotional and you know there wasn't like this pressure to be like physical cheating whatever it just felt like you were really a good guy yeah on a show called temptation island where we have people named a tempter and temptances. I was this surprised to see, like, yeah, like good male represent, straight male representation. On reality TV in 2026, we don't see a lot of, like, guys re-route for, like the hot guys who are also the good guys. It's like you seem to have to choose between one of the two.

And we got to find that on Temptation Island this season. Thanks to Xavier. I'm pretty sure. Thank you. Thank you. Well, man, it was great watching you. We're excited to keep talking about this show. and you're the first one we got to interview from this season,

so it was a great way to kick it off, and it'll be fun to unpack the rest of these relationships. But Mikey never planned on you showing up. That is for sure. For sure. Yeah, I don't think a lot of people play it on that, but I mean, hey. I think you taught Mikey a very valuable lesson, and I hope that he's willing to learn that lesson

because I think there's a lot of people out there who have dated someone and taken them for granted and didn't really see their value until someone else showed up and saw the person they did it for who they are. And it was interesting to see Mikey kind of watch him through that experience. And if he's willing to, I think he can learn a lot from it. I don't know if he'll ever thank you for it. But I honestly think you did him a favor in the long run

because hopefully he won't take his next partner for granted like he seemed to take Cindy for granted. His future partner, well, thank you. I'm telling you, that whole gift card of saying like she's a prize, I think it's really easy, you know, the monomies. of, you know, work, life and all the things to just, like, lose grass. You know, like, what's right in front of you. So, I mean, like, honestly, I feel like that was learning an opportunity for a lot of people who tuned in.

I think they usually, you know, try to appreciate, you know, where they have press and when you have to go on. All right. Well, Xavier, we appreciate you taking the time. Best of luck in life. I hope it goes great. Thank you, Xavier. Take care, buddy. Bye.

Thank you, guys. I appreciate it. All right. You guys have a good one. You too. God, that show is designed only for straight people because if there were a bunch of gay guys on the same island, we would have just started an orgy on the first night. It's like, it's truly, I was like, this is, so I have a question for you guys.

Is it cheating in that environment? I think it depends on the boundaries set. You set, like, going in. Yeah. I think each of these couples are like, hey, these are boundaries. Like, we heard Cole and Scarlet be like, you can't go on multiple dates with the same person. It was like a boundary they set, which clearly that was broken. But like, I guess if you go in and you're like, you explore.

I'll explore. The jungles of Hawaii. And if it's better at home, then, like, we'll leave together. Right, right. You know? Yeah. Was there any couple that you guys were rooting for that would work out? No.

No. None of them. None of them. Look, Cole or Summit and Kaylee, I think they're maybe just too young. Like, he's really immature in that sense. I'm like, he is 25. Does he want to be married right now? That's not ridiculous to not to be.

be a year into a relationship and not know at 25 if you want to be married or not. I don't think that that's like crazy. What is your thoughts on Jack? How old was he? Was he when he? He was giving 21 to me. I don't know if that's... He could have been 18.

He could have been 35. Yeah. Literally. Very age ambiguous. I don't understand how, like, he got Cheyenne. I don't, I don't understand how that initially had. I don't understand. Like, it's high school.

Yeah. That's what I feel like happened. Right. Me too. They were like high school. They're each other's first love and that love you can't shake, you know. It's tough. Like you don't know why.

But he also, I guess, has that like West sauce. You know, the like, he's got some swag. He does. He does. But I was like, I'm too mean. Yeah. To really speak my thoughts right now. And like him switching up.

Two girls? Yeah. They did not hold him accountable enough. And I could tell. We're like we're just here to be a part of his journey. I don't know. Oh, my gosh. I'm like, I know that hurt that first girl's feelings when she woke up.

You could see it on her face, but she also probably felt like, I can't really have a say in this. And it's like, yeah, you're going to look real stupid if you hold him accountable after tempting him the first time. Yeah, I guess it is that if you're a temptress and he's tempted by you and another temptress. Like, you can't. But they made an emotional connection. That's how it started. I'm sure they did. You know, they made an emotional connection.

So I'm like, well, to her. You know what I mean? So I'm like, yeah, of course you're feeling. are hurt that he hooked up with another girl, but like, you can't say shit, honey? Like, you did this. From his perspective, I actually do kind of get it because I do believe Cheyenne was with Preston by that time. When the second girl came.

When he went with the second girl. So by that point, I'm like, he knows it's over with his girlfriend. That it's like, you might as well milk this thing and like go for whoever you think is hot at that point because you're not going on with your girlfriend. Yeah. So I'm like, in that sense, I do kind of get it. It's like, if I'm here, I might as well do it. Yeah.

But, yeah, not, I don't understand his magic. I don't get it really. I mean, his, like, when they played that game, no one had done anything yet. They had just played, like, the little game, and he says, you're like candy. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry.

Yeah. What? Right. Like, that is already, like, that's enough for Cheyenne to be like, we're done. Bye. Yeah. For then as who he didn't watch, what did he say?

He said that I bet Cardi. Pussy tastes like candy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like if you are imagining what another woman's vision, he wrote the word pussy. Right.

Or tastes like. Two S's. You're sick. And knowing it's going to be set out loud in front of a group on camera, probably going to get clipped and sent to your girlfriend. No, he. Those two came to temptation on the breakup. Yeah.

He came to break up with her. They're like, this is the only way we'll get away from the other. Exactly. They have a constant cycle from what it sounds like of you do something so I retaliate. retaliate and then I get even but then that person now feels vindicated to then retaliate and so it's just like this never ending cycle. I feel like he was just like you haven't

broke up with me yet. All right, I'll hook up other than other girl. Him smacking her ass on the bed. Oh my. Sent me into an absolute spiral. Yeah, I've never felt more like a homosexual than watching them. I gotta be honest. Oh my God, I have to do squats. I just, I didn't get maybe the, if I was in that environment

and I was hearing Jack talk about the girls in the house like that, I would have, like, if I had a vagina, I feel it would have inverted. Just from, like, hearing that, that I'm like, I don't understand sort of the angle of Carter and Giacena, I think her name was. Like, I wouldn't have been attracted to that if I'd heard him talk about other girls. Totally. You know what I mean? That's why I honestly wonder with some of these temptresses and, like, no disrespect to them,

but, like, I genuinely just think that they have to be just so, down to like get screen time because when she was deciding to go in with him on the second night, I was like, there's no way you're actually attracted to this. You're crazy. Yeah. I'm like, you just want a little storyline, I think. Or maybe you want to make it on to a perfect match later. I don't know.

Like, as a guy, you know what's on when some girl's like, you're crazy. You're so crazy. Jack, I have a brawag. You're so crazy. When she goes, what are you doing? Put your pants back on. Yeah, right. Well, you know what?

And one thing that I do think was a very interesting psychological towel. was him saying, are you attracted to me? I have never asked anyone that when we were having sex. That is such an interesting way to phrase that. Is he actually insecure around this? Do you think he knows that Cheyenne is way hotter than him? That sort of complex is really interesting to me. And I'm wondering if that's why he's collecting and cheating and trying to prove to himself that he's actually worthy.

If you ask me that and we're about to hook up, I'd be like, I was. I actually am not. Yeah, not anymore. until this moment right now. You're hideous. I'm broken free from the stealth. Thank you so much for bringing this delay. I think it's like,

do you care about me as a person? Who knows? But like you're definitely attracted to them if you want to have sex with them. Yeah, it's like asking like questions you would ask your therapist as like foreplay is like really interesting. Like it's usually like oh like

I just, that's a weird thing to say. Right? And so I do think that I'm like, I wonder if this guy is actually like self-sabotaging via like this cheating, this like, you know, distance from his girlfriend who's beautiful, who's stunning, like she's accepted these things about you. Whose dream is. To be a club promoter. Right.

That's his goal. That's a. But then when Cheyenne was like, I love the clubs. I love going out. It was like a couple episodes later. Right. I was like, oh, okay. So you too.

Match made in heaven. Or they're 21. Right. You know what I mean? Like, or they're literally just babies. And I'm like, you're just children. no harm, no foul, like, thanks for the entertainment. Like, you'll figure it out later.

That's kind of how I feel. Yeah, it is really like they should be at the club. Yeah, they should be at the club. I don't know. I'm curious. I thought it was really interesting. Like, the guys cared way more about their partners, like talking shit about them and their character,

way more than them physically hooking up with another guy. But they weren't hooking up with other guys. When Cindy hooked up with, made out with Xavier, he was like, I'm going to fuck him. for her you know we can make this work and then the next one when she was like i can do better than mike he was like fuck her whatever i just think it's fascinating that for all like it don't we always

assume that crossing a physical boundary is like something you can't go back from but i definitely think for guys like you you will cut a man if you like talk about his like lack of masculinity right or you call him a loser or things like that when when kaley called him He was like, he was like, upset. But I think that tracks, like, men generally, like, our intimacy is not physical most of the time. Like, that's not the most intimate thing. Like, I think a lot of men have capacity for casual sex.

Yeah. Right. They want to feel respected. Right. Yeah. Interesting. So I don't, I think that that point can sort of gloss over because it's not as like. But we always assume men being so physical that that's what they care about the most. But it's like, I think the show is so fascinating because you realize they don't care about that as much as if you like talk down about his character. Well, it's the perception of man, right? I'm learning so much right now. The perception of man is, and that's the thing. This is a deep lore moment. I'm obsessed with the

Hungry Games. And so I watched a video essay of someone breaking down the guy in the first Hunger Games book, and it talks about how, in this video essay on YouTube, it talks about, I'm closing my eyes where I can focus. It talks about how masculinity is this really delicate entity, right? And how it is almost this like externally validated experience where like you can't really take away womanhood in the same way that manhood is as delicate right like if you call a woman a girl it's not the same as calling a man a boy right right and we saw that so many times with Kaylee being like I'm purposely calling him a boy right now like he's a boy he's a boy and so the perception of manhood is more important than the physical manifestation of it and so the idea of these men feeling like do you see me as a man do you

see me is that still intact that is the more important part than like the physical touch because Is that part, like sex is the, we don't, as men, we're not as, we can have more casual sex. Yeah. But like, I cannot unring the bell of you thinking I'm not man enough. Yeah. And it's so fascinating. And I always like, you know, one like rule, I always like, I learned this from my wife when we were like dating and not together. And I'll never forget when she was like, I was like, I don't know, I don't know.

And then she was like, and I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, I got a date. And she told me. And like usually like a lot of times where I'm like talking, I'm a woman friends and they're like having a situation. they will, the amount of times they will like lie to the guy they want, they want. And they'll be like, I don't have anything else going on. The way that women will like avoid to the guy they want to date not making themselves seem desired because they think that if they say to this guy, oh, I have other options that that

guy won't be interested in them. And it's the exact opposite. Like if you tell a guy you're desired and other men want to date you, just like the other way around. It makes you more attractive. But the amount of women I know will like not be honest with. with their like situation ship. And be like, oh, no, I don't have a date or.

Like, I don't want to tell them I'm desired. It's like the worst mistake you tell them, tell me you have a date. Like when Natalie told me she was going on a date, I like freaked out. Were you actually going on a date? Yeah, he's pastime me and I was getting ready. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, going on date. Sorry.

You don't want to date me? This man does. Yeah. And then Nick was like, wait. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I love you. But that's how it works.

But that's how it works. That's how it works because again, it's not the, it's not the, it's, it's just like, oh, it, it makes you question your identity and your, you know. And this is not to do with y'all at all. Okay, for right. Because I just want to say that because we were talking about that, but what you guys were saying earlier about like this perception of manhood, my issue with it is that I'm like, they had so many opportunities before coming to this island to prove that they were masculine and that they were a good leader. or a good partner, all these things. And then they get there and you're finally hearing what your partner is saying behind your back or reading her journal or whatever it is.

And I understand like it is so sad. And I did start to feel like some empathy for these men at a certain point in the show at a certain point. But like you had so many opportunities to just step up and like be a man. And now your feelings are hurt because the perception isn't there. But it's like, what have you done to earn that? Where I feel like the physical side, I'm like it's kind of so easy to not. be physical in these situations it's like if the if the whole point is to not be physical but like

they're they're breaking it or or they've broken it before I'm like I just can't understand how they would even expect their partner to speak highly of them when it's like you've treated them poorly or you've like talked poor about their body or you've you lied to them the week before you show up to 10 literally like not understanding or grasping the concept of proactive transparency like that is something that just infuriates me and I'm like And the goalpost keeps moving, but I'm like, no, they just becoming, they're becoming more clear because they're trying to help you understand. It's like the goalpost keeps moving. No, you clearly don't understand what transparent or being upfront about just like being transparent is. Like, what are we, how, how can the goalpost not keep moving? I do feel like Temptation Island sometimes is just like you watch men have to go through the Mikey, for example. Yes. Had to literally have the like worst thing happened to him that could happen to him in order for him to understand. understand a concept that like a girl probably understood when she was like 15 you know which is that

you have to treat people like they deserve to be treated right or else they're going to leave you and find someone like Xavier that will treat them well do you think Mikey's a whole like I was a dog back on the day I was a dog you know I did keep saying that do you think that was a bit of a front do you feel like he was as much of a dog as he claims he was Well, I mean, I think Sydney did corroborate that, right? Where she was saying, like, he chose his ex, and that was, like, our initial heartbreak, blah, blah, blah. But I don't, to your, I don't know. I don't know that I believe him totally on his word.

Just because there were so many times where it was like this clear heartbreak is happening in front of him. And he's, like, posturing that I'm, like, totally, you know, Brunay Brown, like, in acceptance, everything's okay right now. And I'm like, if you were actually able to say you're hurt and say you're in pain and, like, express that to, I don't know. I just think he covers a lot in a way that I don't believe a lot of the things he says. It was just fascinating because it seemed like his impression of why those two were there is that she wanted them to go so he could prove his loyalty and faithfulness. Which, like, sure, you didn't hook up with any girl, but he started his journey by being this, having the three amigos and flirting with all the girls and just like making these comments where it's just like, you didn't think that would bother her? Like all he, it's like he thought all he had to do was not fuck someone. And he thought that was going to be enough for Sydney to like.

Yeah. I think college is just easier. You can hook up with anybody any night of the week. Everyone's drinking. Everyone's partying. He's like, college mic, he's gone. And I'm like, yeah, because like nobody's drinking and partying the way that we did in college. Like people aren't, people have to go to work in the morning.

You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. I feel like he does put on this front of like, I was a dog. But I'm like, no, like everyone, everyone was doing that in college, you know? And I think also to your point, like I think that there's a, I'm a big believer that like you can have the right message and be the wrong messenger, you know? And so it's like I think when you're hearing from your partner all the ways in which you're doing it poorly or I feel like not seen or however that might happen, it's, it doesn't hit the same. It's like your mom telling you to clean up your room, you know, over and over and over again. But then you like find out that like the girl you like is coming over, you're going to clean your fucking room, you know? And so it's like there is this sort of, I think boys. We don't do well with, like, object permanence. You know what I mean?

It's like, we almost need that, like, third thing to come in to then be able to, like, see it for its truth. Whereas I think women have, like, more foresight. I think women are forced to sort of, like, from survival, probably, like, are forced to sort of see situations as far as they could unfold before they do, you know, versus, like, men are sort of like, fire now, like, in front of me. Like, that's all I can really see. Like, I can't predict too much of the future.

And I can, and I'm that man. I have conversations go over. over and over and over and then one day I'm like oh I needed like the light bulb moment that's sort of fix that like can we start a program in schools or something like yeah it is called therapy yeah like how do we like get in and like pro act like work on that like because I'm like I am like watching it I'm like what are we doing yeah it's I truly do think it's like a third I think couples therapy I think couples therapy is preventative not restorative let me also say that the moment you think you love someone one six months in go to couples therapy start getting ahead of that shit it's like a bicycle helmet not a reconstructive surgery yes yes yes love it's a seatbelt uh summit taught men all a valuable lesson which is uh i care if your if your girlfriend asks you for a workout or what her what her what your opinion is on any particular part of her body i don't i don't care if she's even asking don't give her the workout

don't don't you know when she was like talking about the way he body shamed her and he's like yeah i know what she's talking about. But he tried to sell it as like, well, I was just giving her workout tips. She said she wanted her butt to be bigger. So I gave her some workouts to get her butt bigger. And now she's pissed. I feel like there's more to that story. I know.

Me too. I feel like you're leaving out some details. But even if that's how that story went, don't offer the, don't get excited about like your girlfriend's asking you like what kind of squat she could do. Because I feel like you've been summit. Don't ask. Every guy has that fixer mentality And if you like ask a

You know And like if there's any part of you that Agreed with her take Don't agree with the take Don't agree with the take Yeah The thing that's hard about that In your situation when you were the summit

I might The thing about it is that when you're like a fitness person When you like go to the gym You're in that lifestyle You do like all the shit And he is because his abs or abd It's crazy You do start to like

De-personalize the body Right like it starts to be like like, oh, dude, your glutes are crazy. I'm not saying, Nick, show me your ass. I'm saying your glutes are, what did you do for that? Like, it gets very, like, sort of clinical, almost in a way. And so when your partner is asking a person whose response is going to be clinical and not really completely in touch with the emotions that are going into the scenario,

you might give a, okay, you want a bigger ass great, do hip thrust, do this, blah, blah, blah. Your partner is hearing, oh, my God, something that fucking hates me, he wants me dead. But it's like, I wasn't actually, I was just being really, earnest in sort of being like a gym bro in that moment. But as partners, we hold so much, like, it's so delicate, right? And like, it feels so layered when someone might say something like that. So I actually understood that he might not have been trying to be insulting to Kaylee, but she was feeling so insecure from other aspects of the relationship that that probably...

That's how it came across to me where he was like, what you asked. Right. You know, like he kind of gave that dumb Jimbrough responds. And, like, she will never forget. I also think Scarlett came on the show to break up with Cole. Because at some point I was like, what do you mean by deep? Or do you just not like them? Both. Yeah, I think both.

I don't know that she came on the show to break up with him, but I think it would have been it would have been just so hard to come back. Like I don't know exactly what happened in their case back home, but like I so resonated with her and I was like, I really understand where she's coming from that I don't know. I don't, I, maybe she was, maybe she knew she was going to break up with him. Maybe she didn't, but I just think it would have been so hard to come back from. Like him reading her journal.

And he's like, she's going to be mad at me for this. Well, close it, sir. Yeah. No, she goes, he goes, do you think she's going to be mad? And then cut to her going, we have one rule. Right. One rule at home. And it's do not read my journal.

Do not read my journal. If you're at a point in a relationship where you feel like you need to read the other person's journal, donezo. It's done. If Nalie. If Natalie had a journal lift at our house, she's my wife, she's the mother of my kids, I would close that shit up and never take a peek. I wouldn't even remotely be curious.

That would be like, ugh. I mean, it's the same reason that I don't want my superpower to be able to read people's minds. I don't like to know. Because I don't want to know what you think about me. Is Horace Gold your birth name? No. Horace is my middle name. Okay.

Is gold your last name? No, it's a stage name. I won't say it because I don't want to be doxed and I've always been diced. No, but like, how did you come up with that? It's so good. I was high on marijuana and I was like, so I've always hated my legal name. My full name is really cool.

My first name's Philip. And I love the name Philip. I think it's like beautiful. But people always shortened Philip to fill and I'm like, I'm not. Different name. I'm not a film. Like I did not give you consent.

I'm not a fill of it. And then I was in college, I went to music school. And so I was like figuring out like the artist thing. I was like, what do I want to do? And I was like with a friend who I was like making music with. And he was like, horse gold. And I was like, cool. And that was really, it was like,

Really kind of it. It's great. I've stuck with it. Susie, do you ever wish that you became a public figure not on reality TV? So like horse, you could come up with it. Because I was always Nick V. I'm The Bachelor. And then I decided to make my show named after a name no one can pronounce.

Yeah. Well, the only name I've ever really resonated with is my stripper name. You know how they're like, it's like your first dog and then the street lived on. Crystal Huntsnack. Oh. Hot. Huntsneck. Huntsneck.

It's getting hunting wives season. So good. Crystal Huntsneck, my first dog and then the first street I lived on. Like, oh, mine's Sammy Santa Rosa. That's great. Wow. Mine's Maximus Hillbrook. That's tough.

That's tough. Mine is Jesse 101st. Is the dog name first? Yeah. Allie Maple Way. I could see it. I could see it. Wally.

Molly Maplewood. Wow. Okay. All right. This has been a ton of fun, man. And we are so glad that you came. You want to come back? I would love to come back.

I'm really having fun. So much fun. Where can people find you, enjoy all the great stuff that you're doing? I am on Instagram, TikTok at Horace Gold, H-O-R-A-C-E-G-O-D.

I have a YouTube channel and a podcast that is not in current flow that I need to bring back because I want to be on your level called Harley Qualified on YouTube. You'll see me on TV and commercials

because I act and make music. I do everything if there's a camera or a microphone. He does everything. We enjoyed having you. Please come back. And if you aren't following Horace, be sure that you do that.

You'll be glad that you did. He's got a lot of, hilarious fun hot takes on all things I know you listening will enjoy hearing from Horace. And thanks to Xavier. Truly. He's also so hot.

Yeah. And just like, I had to say that. Really seems like a great guy. What's wrong with him? What language was he learning? Spanish, Portuguese. He came in and learned a little, you know what?

I got some free time. I want to learn a whole new language. Yeah. What do we think? Oh, and then he just dropped it. He's an engine. Did we know that he's an engineer? No.

Engineer. They need to put, they do, I will say, they need to put their jobs. Jobs. I need to know what their jobs are. Yes. Yeah. That's all I was to say.

Yeah, that was hot. All right. Well, thank you to our guest, Horace Gold, and Xavier for joining us. We will be back tomorrow. Don't forget, we have Joya Fetone here. I know you all know who Joy Fetone,

and he is a member of the iconic band in sync. He's got a new doc out talking about all his experiences growing up in boy bands in the boy band world of the late 90s and early 2000s. That's a fascinating documentary, and it's a fascinating interview of Joey Fetone. And then also we're back on Thursday.

We got Amanda from Beverly Hills Housewives with us. Super excited about that. And on Friday, we got Paul Walter Hauser. I'm very excited about that. Literally, one of my favorite actors of today. He is with us. He's got a new movie called Balls Up with Mark Wahlberg. It's an hilarious comedy.

And he is with us on Friday. So it's a jam pack week. Be sure to keep listening. Tell your friends, subscribe, all that fun stuff. We'll see you back tomorrow.