The Viall Files - E1110 - Amanda Frances Unplugged, Summer House Insider Tea, Temptation Island Temptresses

Starting point is 00:00:13 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my wonderful, smart, funny. We're back to the magic. Charming. Wife and Natalie Joy, we got Leah, we got Mary here. We got a lot to get into. We got a jam-packed episode.

Starting point is 00:00:32 Amanda Francis from the Beverly Hills Housewives franchises with us. I am very, very excited to speak with her. I'm a fan. I don't, you know, I just find her interesting and quirky. and smart and I'm really look forward to talking with her. I really want manifestation advice. You know, I'm excited.

Starting point is 00:00:51 She'll send you her link and you can subscribe and pay. Here's the thing. I would like free manifestation advice. What's the difference between manifestation and someone's saying like maybe you just need to change your perspective? It's the exact same thing in my head. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:01:06 It's whimsy. It's whimsical. It's whimsical. I think that the spiritual is more like you have more like concrete things that you're putting out into the universe that you want to happen for you. But yeah, well, like when we're like when,

Starting point is 00:01:17 you know, Ask Nick episodes, the through line of every person I talk to, it's just like, what's your perspective on this situation and maybe, maybe have a different one to help you get on, like that's kind of it.

Starting point is 00:01:30 It kind of works, though. I will say, like, of course it works. Yeah. That's a thing. How you, like your perspective on any situation

Starting point is 00:01:38 drastically changes, like the direction things could go. Yeah. I mean, not to go like deeper whatever, but I do think, like, I'm of the belief that like whether you believe in God, whether you believe in manifestation or whether you believe in like a perspective shift. If you believe in God, you're like, it's your spirituality. Manifestation a little bit. Like you're playing to God to like support you and do all these things. If it's manifestation, it's the universe and kind of the energy around that. And if it's your perspective, it's just psychological. So it's like whatever helps you do that, you should do. We're excited to have Amanda and to get to know her a little better. That is later this episode. We also have two of the temptresses from Temptation Island, Josenia and Carter, two of the ladies who seduced Jack.

Starting point is 00:02:27 They tempted Jack. They worked really hard. Yeah, they really. They had to crack them. They had to crack them. I need to know, though, like how Carter felt about Jocenia, Because that was not really addressed in the show. Who was the one who he smacked on the ass?

Starting point is 00:02:46 Descena. Oh, I want to know if he smacked Carter on the ass. Justenia also had a short stint with Summit. Yeah, I want to know about that because it was like, they just moved the fuck on. They did the aerial date together. They are here at the same time together. And we are ready to get some questions answered from them

Starting point is 00:03:04 in terms of what happened on their respective islands. Also, if you haven't listened to the Joy Fatone episode that dropped yesterday, Be sure that you do it. It is a really fun conversation with one of the members of one of the most iconic boy bands ever to exist in the world of mankind. All true. It's a great documentary that he has out there, but it's an even better conversation with Joey. So if you haven't checked it out, be sure to do that. Also, don't forget tomorrow, we have another amazing episode one.

Starting point is 00:03:28 I am super excited for you to check out. Paul Walter Hauser is with us, and if you don't know that name, I know you've seen him in many stuff, he's an I-Tanya. He was in Blackbird. He played the serial killer. His range is amazing. He's one of my favorite actors of today. I mean, I think he's going to win an Oscar someday. Anyways, I was so honored to have him on this show.

Starting point is 00:03:48 He's got a new movie with Mark Wahlberg called Balls Up. It's a fun action buddy comedy, super fun movie, and it comes out tomorrow. But Paul is with us in a, what a fascinating, nice, gentle, amazing human. Yeah, he really just was like such a good, kind person. Also, missed opportunity. His dad's a Lutheran pasture. His dad's a Lutheran pastor. He's like definitely into manifestation.

Starting point is 00:04:13 Oh my God, I didn't talk to him about that. That's crazy. Yeah, he was talking about religion and I was like, you know what? I'm not going to go into my whole thesis. Anyways, he's just like, I don't know. I'm always fascinated by someone who's extraordinarily talented as someone like Paul is and just how like normal and charming he is. It's the Lutherans, bro. It's the Lutherans.

Starting point is 00:04:33 What about the Catholics? Catholics, too much guilt. Too much guilt. Yeah. Lutherans have that too, but you know how to push it down. Continue. Is that the difference? All right.

Starting point is 00:04:42 Well, it is a jam-packed week, so be sure to check it all out. Also, don't forget, the Vial Files is now ad-free on Vile Files Plus, where you also can get some amazing bonus content, like our reality recap deep dives where we dive really deep into all our shows that we cover, especially shows like Temptation Island. We get some BTS. We have the same showrunner as Age of Attraction, so we really get the T. Also, obviously, as the Amanda and West drama unfolds, we really get into the nitty, gritty of it all. plus your update special where you get all your favorite updates from your Ask Nick episodes, all that and more. Just go to VialFiles.com to sign up.

Starting point is 00:05:16 Also, don't forget that now that we have Temptation Island out, it's live, everyone's watching it. It's a good time to remind you that Vow Files is finally going to go live for the first time ever. We'll have the cast of Season 2 of Temptation Island with us on May 4th here in L.A. So if you're looking for something different to do and you want to night out with your friends or your partner or yourself, maybe it's a great way to meet some friends, people have liked minds, Just go to Vialfiles.com to get tickets now. They are available.

Starting point is 00:05:41 It'll be a ton of fun. We'll be there again with the entire cast of Temptation Island, including the main cast and some of the tempters and temptresses. So it's going to be a ton of fun. We have a new, we had someone move in to our house. I want to hear about this. So a few weeks ago, me, River, and Genevieve, you know her, you love her, Bachelor Nation, Genevieve. She's on the main-necked season. Yes.

Starting point is 00:06:05 She's a dear, dear friend of mine, and she helps with River. And so she was over at the house and we were just sitting on the couch talking and playing with River. And I look up and I see a lizard in our fireplace. And I'm not talking about like a little green lizard. You grab its tail. It breaks off. Yeah. Not one of those.

Starting point is 00:06:24 No. Bigger. Bigger than that. So I see him and he's like on the fireplace. I'm like, oh my God, Genevieve. You have to get on or in like inside. Well, I thought he was on. So I'm like you have to get like a Tupperware and catch him and take him outside.

Starting point is 00:06:37 And our fireplace is like, it's a, you know, it's gas, it's closed off. It's like, it's, you can't open it on with a switch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm like, you have to catch him. I am pregnant. I can't be around a lizard. It's dangerous for the babies. And so she's like, oh my God, I saw that yesterday and thought it was a toy.

Starting point is 00:06:56 I'm like, what? She's like, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. So then she gets up and she's like, oh, my God, Natalie, it's in the fireplace. Like, it's behind the glass. hanging by like its little arms. Oh my God, free him. River is just like in heaven.

Starting point is 00:07:12 She's like, I guess it. It's kind of like the zoo. Yeah, she's like, this is so cool. My sister has a bearded dragon, I guess, named Nigel. And so when we FaceTime my sister, she like shows her the lizard. So the river starts going, my Nigel. It's my Nigel. And I call Nick, and I'm like, Nick, oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:07:31 There's a huge lizard in our fireplace. Nick's like, call an exterminator. And I'm like, I don't think they're going to come for a lizard. I heard a huge lizard. By the way, I was with Nick when he received this phone call, and all I hear was a lizard in the fireplace. And I'm like, what is happening? He doesn't need to call an exterminator.

Starting point is 00:07:51 And I'm like, first of all, I don't think they're going to come for a lizard. Like, I think they come for rats. Pest control. It's a pest. Wait, but a lizard. I don't think it's a pest. No, a lizard could be a pest. In your home, it's a pest.

Starting point is 00:08:02 I'm from Florida. We welcome them in with open arms. So, anyway. And like, buy Nick, whatever. So then I call my mom who, single mom, she's like, you know, has taken care of every bug, animal, rodent. From the south she gets it. Yeah, from the south she gets it. So I call my mom and I'm like, mom, I facetam her.

Starting point is 00:08:20 I'm like, look at this lizard. What do I do? She's like, oh my gosh. She's like, just tap the fireplace and see if he like moves because we kind of thought he was dead. So Genevieve taps the fireplace and he moves a little bit. And then mom's like, just keep tapping it and see like where he goes. Well, then he disappears. And she's like, he probably found his way back outside.

Starting point is 00:08:39 And I'm like, he probably found his way into my bed. Like, I don't know where he went. I'm uncomfortable with this situation. Anyway, so then that's the last we see of him. I keep checking the fireplace. He's gone. We leave town. We come back like two weeks later.

Starting point is 00:08:52 He left town with a lizard in your house. We thought he was gone. Oh, my God. It's a lizard. Big. Fine. Okay. Big lizard.

Starting point is 00:08:59 Worst thing it's going to do is, like, poop a little bit. He's big. So then we get back into town. Nick's like I'm gonna we put river Nick's like I'm gonna put river down for a nap And I'm like you know what I just got off a flight I need to like put my legs up lay on my heating pad Watch a show

Starting point is 00:09:16 So I get ready to do all of that Oh no And I lift up my silk Pillow case and there he is That little lizard Laying under my pillow And he like looks up at me like What are you doing?

Starting point is 00:09:35 here. I'm like, this is my house. You moved out. What are you doing here? And so I burst into Rivers Room. I'm like, Nick, the lizard, he's in the bed. You have to get him. So I don't like reptiles. Keep in mind. I'm not a fan.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Call an exterminator. But all I remember is there is a huge lizard in our fireplace. How big is it? So I'm like, I got a man up here. I got to deal with my fears. I got to deal with a giant lizard in our

Starting point is 00:10:03 bed. And I'm like, fuck. I'm expecting like something that's about a foot long, a good foot. That's a big lizard. That would be a big lizard. I'm just thinking a Rango from the movie Rango is what I'm picture. It was a little gecko. How big is that big? That was not that big, Nick.

Starting point is 00:10:20 How big was it? He was like this big. Maybe with his tail. In your bed? A big tail? Yeah. I know exactly what kind of lizard you're talking about. They hang out outside the target in Florida all the time.

Starting point is 00:10:29 They're literally all over L.A. They're climbing trees. Yeah. They exist. They're present. Anyways, this is tiny, cute little lizard. And yeah, I got a, I got a bowl. A pot. I mean, those things move quickly, though.

Starting point is 00:10:44 He wasn't moving. It was actually quite easy to catch. He was chilling. Yeah. What did you use the basket top for? To first trap it. And then I got the pot. Oh, Justin wants me to say.

Starting point is 00:10:54 Finding a lizard often symbolizes regeneration, adaptation and survival. Encouraging you to embrace change and shadow habits. You know what? I don't want to hear it, Justin. In many traditions, they're viewed as keepers of dreams, intuition, and good fortune, signaling a time to trust your instinct. I don't want to hear it. For the audience, that's kind of nice. I got, if you ever have a lizard in your house and you don't want to, like, touch it, here's what you do.

Starting point is 00:11:18 So lizards famously cannot live in cold climates in Florida if there is a freeze, especially in South Florida. No, no, no, no, you're not hurting it. In Florida, especially during a freeze, lizards will freeze. Like, their blood stops going. People think they died. They fall out of trees. Famously will hit people on head sometimes. So, and then they come back to life once it's warmer again because their blood just

Starting point is 00:11:39 shuts down. Wait, hold on. You're saying they die. No, they don't die. They just go, they like, sleep mode. They become paralyzed. Hibernation. Not hibernation, they become paralyzed.

Starting point is 00:11:51 Is this fucking nature show? Anyway, I'm just saying if you ever have a lizard and you're trying to get rid of it. Like put your AC down? Freeze them out, yeah. Oh, my God. You can do that. River is like obsessed and she every single morning that she wakes up she wakes up in our bed and she's like my nigel and under pill and say wake up and dad catch it a pot and then oh they let it go free oh okay yeah they took them outside they she said bye bye go back to your mommy and daddy and then Genevieve just sent me this video of river you got to get her like a like a toy lizard now she's on her phone she's on the phone with Nigel What is he saying?

Starting point is 00:12:38 She's talking to him. She's on a toy phone. They're pen pals. Everybody needs a Nigel. Everyone needs a Nigel. Also, if you put a lizard on the stomach, if you catch one and you go boop, boop, it'll also paralyze and fall asleep.

Starting point is 00:13:04 You won't catch me touching a lizard. Well, speaking of lizards, there's speculation that Wes Wilson might have his own spin-off. And shed his skin? And shed his skin. I feel like this is going to be. ripped from his claws. The Ozarks spin off. The Ozarks spin off. Yeah, I don't feel like really. It's not a bad idea. We think Andy is going to be like, you know what, West, take on our

Starting point is 00:13:26 legacy show and head on over to the Ozarks and be our spokesperson. For the Ozarks. I don't know. A man, a man and Bravo who doesn't seem to care what people think and just continues to be outrageously messy with people's feelings seems to be exactly what Bravo is looking for. Uh, there is a lot of of like speculation and rumor regarding the summer house reunion. I got a little inside tea. Ooh, do spell please. Well, also before we get into what I heard, I talk to people very close to the situation. But Lindsay Hubbard, queen of summer house, she was stopped and asked about a lot of these

Starting point is 00:14:03 rumors about are there going to be one-on-one interviews, are people going to be refusing to film with each other at the reunion, et cetera, et cetera. Lindsay said it would be really disappointing to see, you know, that where these kind of one-on-one interviews happen and we're not going to kind of your traditional kind of reunion format with the entire cast kind of I kind of agree with her yeah I mean listen I wouldn't hate a one-on-one segment but I don't want that in lieu of the cast going you know having at it and kind of discussing this with the cast yeah and then it seemed like bravo social confirmed what Lindsay shot down which is what she didn't think it would happen and would be disappointing if it did meaning that they're not doing

Starting point is 00:14:41 one-on-one they're not doing the one-on-one thing Andy also did a, like, Q&A on Watch What Happens Live and was like, that's not how this is happening. So we're getting traditional reunion. And Andy's going to Andy and he'll control the room in the situation and hopefully get to the bottom of it. The people I spoke with, I guess it's really no surprise. It's not like piping hot tea. It's just that, like, I think the cast of Summerhouse is highly anticipating this reunion. Like, in terms of future discussions about what Summerhouse or in the city or any of these other spin-off,

Starting point is 00:15:14 I don't think the cast really knows what's going to happen because they don't know what's going to go down in the reunion. And I think there's a lot of people in this group who are going to see, like, can reconciliation happen? You know, like, what is Sierra thinking going into the streaming union? I don't think everyone in this cast knows. I got the impression he's kind of keeping her card close to the vest. You know, and it does sound like there are people in the cast

Starting point is 00:15:38 who anticipate, like, things changing, that, like, people could get fired because like the producers of Summerhouse. Oh, fired. Oh, the producers of Summerhouse really, like, again, this is a friend group that like, they need to be friends. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:50 There needs to be, you know, there can be drama. There can be fights. But at the end of the day, there needs to be a group of friends that have, that are connected in a way that is, doesn't have like a real rip through it, you know? Which we literally saw in this episode of Summerhouse, Amanda, like, yelling at West about having the girl on his lap and being like,

Starting point is 00:16:10 we all have to get along. Yeah. We all have to live here. You can't do shit like that and disrespect the other people who live here because then it doesn't work. Yeah, I mean, it's funny. I'm thinking about, I think it was last season, when Schwartz stopped by Summerhouse and who was it like in the bed? And he walks in and he goes, enjoy it while you can. He put the curse on him.

Starting point is 00:16:32 He put the, but it is interesting because like Carl and Lindsay went right back to Summerhouse like after they got. Yeah, but every situation's different. and they is as difficult as their breakup was, it was, I think in a way, almost mutual. I think Lindsay was kind of upset, but I don't, you know. Also, like, Lindsay was pregnant the next season. So it's like they were already in different paths. Like, you know, it was just, it was never going to happen again for them.

Starting point is 00:17:02 So I think they were able to be like, okay. Yeah. And again, that's as difficult as a breakup can be and is heartbreaking. as it is, sometimes like you just, it's, we don't work together or I'm not happy with this situation. Like this Sierra and Amanda and West love triangle is, I mean, if you're Sierra, how do you watch this week's episode and have it not just like enrage you? Yeah. And she's being such a good friend to Amanda and they're like crying together. Between Sierra, Mia and Amanda? Well, then there's that scene where Amanda. You're stuck with us. Yeah. All right. All right.

Starting point is 00:17:39 Also when Amanda like goes on the daybed next to West and he's like combing your hair, it's just, it's so, it's so interesting to watch Summer House now. I really wonder how I would have digested this, like not knowing what I know. I mean, what I wanted, I just like, the thing I am most fascinated with is, I don't know. I don't know if people out there are thinking I'm like trying to defend Amanda. That's not like that's not my point. I just like I just empathize with their situation.

Starting point is 00:18:07 And I think it's a fascinating thing to think. about someone in Amanda's position in life. And I can understand why she might have made bad choices. But I just, I'm dying to know how she made these choices. You know, how did she go from the person we saw in last night's episode to like fighting with Kyle out of nowhere?

Starting point is 00:18:23 Like, and honestly, at that point, I kind of understood where Kyle was coming from, you know, on some level, like, you know, Wes was a dog this episode.

Starting point is 00:18:31 But like, basically it's just like, I think if I'm Kyle, it's just like, like, are you guys going to date? Are you not? Let's just stop the charade.

Starting point is 00:18:38 Like, It is a Sierra, in this stage of the season, it is Sierra and West playing games with each other. Like they are. But then you watch that scene where Amanda, we have not seen her pipe up at Kyle like that. He told her to shut the fuck up and called her a, and she put her finger.

Starting point is 00:18:58 And she said, if you want to fight with me, we can fight. Haven't seen that side of her until maybe she got a little jealous about what West was doing. I don't think anything was going down. I don't know if anything was going down, but there could have been feelings. I think there was definitely an emotional connection. Some thoughts maybe in the back of some of the heads.

Starting point is 00:19:17 But you think you think Amanda used Sierra's feelings towards West to express her own feelings towards West? I mean, she was defending Sierra, right? She was defending like how, you know, it was fucked up for West to do that because of how Sierra feels, yada, yada, yada. And she was she was using Sierra's feelings to criticize. critique West. I hope not. And you think that maybe, like, you think that was a projection of her own feeling. That would be, that would be crazy. That would, that would be crazy. I think maybe she had some of her feelings in the back of her head and they were just maybe

Starting point is 00:19:50 amplifying because we just haven't seen her stand on business like that at all. And this isn't, granted, this is the first time West has been like blatant, like girl on his lap making out rubbing her back next to Sierra. That is the first time he has done that. But it's not the first time he's disrespected Sierra. No. And we have not seen Amanda once stand up to West or Kyle until this where she also was like, I'm going to go lay down. She like gets in the daybed with him and the girl.

Starting point is 00:20:23 Cock-clogging. Yeah. Yeah. You know what else is interesting? It's like the whole Ben thing, right? Ben with his girlfriend now and Amanda being like literally saying he wanted to fuck me Italy. I'm the one that's married. Did I play into it? Maybe because who doesn't like a little attention, but do not turn this around on me? So she's already kind of feeling a certain way about Ben

Starting point is 00:20:45 because the guy that was giving her attention, right, that she didn't have to do anything about now has a girl there. So it's like that little attention that she was getting from Ben that was deniable. She can't get it anymore. And now West also has this girl who's like the other guy she's getting that from. And then she's left with Kyle fucking Cook. So yeah, she's going to project that Sierra is pissed. And so not saying anything was actively going on with West, but she was for sure enjoying the attention that was on her. Also, the conversation that she had with Ben's girlfriend.

Starting point is 00:21:16 Crazy. Was crazy. She not once was like, so sorry I said that. I was like blackout drunk. Like, I don't know where that came from. She just was like, that wasn't my place to tell you that he's in love with me. Girl. It's still true.

Starting point is 00:21:28 Everything I said is true. But like, it just wasn't my place. She was not going to take back. Yeah. That Ben wanted to fuck her. Yeah, by the way, if I wasn't married, we would be together. She doubled down. She said it in her confessional.

Starting point is 00:21:39 She was like, Ben wanted to fuck me in Italy, and I'm the one who's married. And did I play into it? Yeah, but like. And it's like, he probably did. But I don't know. Ben's just very flirty, I think. But I don't know. What pissed me off the most was when West had the girl on his lap.

Starting point is 00:21:57 And he's like, I kind of used to date the girl sitting next to us. But like, whatever. That was crazy. Like I could, I could clock that man in the face. Crazy. Pissed me off. No. Piss me off.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Sierra, you deserve the entire world. Get away from that stinky ass man. What would you say at the reunion if Sierra is still expressing feelings towards West? Well, it takes a long time for that stuff to go away. Obviously, like, you can, I don't know. We also haven't seen the rest of the season. He could recover somehow. In context.

Starting point is 00:22:29 It has been a couple years. they haven't, you know, like, yes, it was something. That is like all that the proof and evidence I need that this man does not want me is that he is going to allow some girl he just met and just invited to this party and then allow her to disrespect me by like sitting on his lap next to her. And then West like rubbing her back and like pulling her hair. You're sick. Well, it's also in the trailer for the next episode, it shows Sierra and West having like an actual. full conversation for the first fucking time where they talk about their feelings. So it's like, who knows what happens in that conversation?

Starting point is 00:23:06 We have to see what's still to come. But after this, it's like literally dead to me. Wes Wilson, you're dead to me. No, he's going to give us nothing in that conversation. It's going to be the bare fucking minimum. But if you're a Sierra at that point, why are you bothering to have the conversation about I miss our friendship? I agree.

Starting point is 00:23:25 When you just watched a fucking guy. After that, I agree. Like do what he did in front of her. It's just like friendship. you guys aren't friends. Yeah. You're too hot people who, like, have great chemistry. And I'm, you know, like, you're not friends.

Starting point is 00:23:37 You're not going to stay friends, like, and do yourself a favor and just, like, be honest with yourself about that. But they clearly did because they, in real life, they went to the Super Bowl together. They've hung out. There's still more to come that we don't know. They are capable of being friends. And Sierra has made it very clear that she wants to be friends first with whoever her future partner is, which makes a ton of sense.

Starting point is 00:23:58 But once you realize, once you cross that long, It's very almost impossible to go back. And like they're doing the thing where they're like, oh, well, we used to be friends. So like, what? Let's just be chill and cool. And as long as West isn't bringing other women to send in his lap and make out with, and as long as when they're in each other's company, they're not flirting with each other people. And that's not friends.

Starting point is 00:24:20 Friends hang out and friends be like, friends are wing, each other's wingmen. You know, those are friends. And even when you have a friend of the opposite sex, when my platonic women friends, like talking them about women are dated was no different than talking to my boys. I was very, like, I didn't hide anything. I think that Sierra is actually a very forgiving person. I think that we've seen her forgive West once before.

Starting point is 00:24:40 We've seen her forgive Jesse. I mean, while he hasn't been back in the bed, he's still like, they're on good terms. Like, I actually think that they've got a great friendship. I'm really liking Jesse right now. It almost seems like Jesse is kind of almost maturing a little bit. Yes. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:53 Like, he's definitely like saying what I'm thinking out loud. It's like, I want to have a girlfriend someday, I need to start making different decisions. Yeah. And I think like, yeah, Sierra sees within people that they can change and she has the ability to forgive them and to let them back in. And I think that like that's something that we've seen her do with Jesse and West. And now we just don't know like what's going to happen from here. Clearly she did let West back in again. And now he's done this thing with Amanda. And I don't know if like anybody could

Starting point is 00:25:27 but who knows again like time will tell but I think Sierra she's a bigger person than I could be I am not as forgiving it was just so sad I think listening to Sierra would be like he just doesn't see me and then yeah anyway my heart just goes out there because like

Starting point is 00:25:43 regardless of whether it was like the right decision and the wrong decision it's just like it sucks I think the real sentence is he doesn't see me the way I want him to see me. Of course you know I think he like literally doesn't see me. I'm sitting. He literally saw her. He literally was like, hey, I used to date that girl.

Starting point is 00:25:59 She didn't hear that, though. But also like, that's even worse. He saw her and he ignored her. And, like, literally just treated her like she wasn't a person. He saw her there. That's what it is. He treated her like a girl. He doesn't care about her feelings and doesn't want to date her and doesn't want to, like

Starting point is 00:26:15 he's a confusing guy. Anyway. Well, up next, we got the ladies of Temptation Island with us. Carter and Josinia are with us to talk about all the messy things that went on during Tampation Island. Here's something a lot of homeowners don't realize until it's too late. Home insurance doesn't cover everything.

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Starting point is 00:28:19 merritt beauty.com. Carter, Jacenia, welcome to the show. How are you both doing? Hello, I'm good. How is everyone? Good. Hi. I'm good.

Starting point is 00:28:28 How are you? We're great. I'm scared. You're scared. Why? I don't know. I feel like this has just been like a whirlwind of emotions. I bet.

Starting point is 00:28:41 Yeah. Well, I was just going to ask, what has it been like to watch Temptation Island back? Both of you were kind of in the thick of it, so to speak. when it came to being the temptresses for some of the men? It's been very on edge to watch because the whole toe I'm just like screaming. I'm like, oh, my God. But it's been fun. It's been entertaining.

Starting point is 00:29:03 So I like, yeah, I'm going good. How about you, Carter? It's been a similar experience for me. I think seeing yourself on TV is kind of like concerning a little bit. It's like, oh, my God. My voice sounds like that on TV. like what's going on. But, you know, it's just wild.

Starting point is 00:29:23 It is. Well, both of you had some moments with Jack. Carter, it started with you, and you guys really seemed like you're really hitting off in a meaningful way. And then out of nowhere, Desenia comes in the picture. I guess to start things off, are you ladies, I'm assuming you're cool with each other?

Starting point is 00:29:42 Did your kind of interactions with Jack create any tension between the two? of you at the time it went down or not at all? I don't think so. I would not really. I don't know. I don't think there was any tension or I think no. I feel like, honestly, if anything, I feel like it kind of brought us closer.

Starting point is 00:30:06 I was talking about this earlier. I feel like Jesania and I were, everyone in the house was close. But then I think when Jack kind of started going after her a little bit more, we kind of had more in common. And we would kind of like, oh, well, how was your experience with Jack? And how was your – we kind of, like, got to, like, relate to each other a little bit more. I mean, at the end of the day, Jack was there to live his single life. So it's not like he was, like, trying to be tied down with, like, anyone. So –

Starting point is 00:30:37 Okay. Carter, what happened when Jack turned off the lights in the confessional room? Oh, yeah. Well, so it started with we went to confessionals, and then we like sat down, we talked, and this was like really early on too. And then after we were done talking, we kind of went behind the camera. And then that's when he kissed me for the first time. And I didn't know, because I know he wanted it to be like a secret. So I didn't like want to tell anyone. But I went in there and like my closest girlfriend in the house was probably Lulu at this point. So I was like, I went in and I was like, I at least need to tell someone. And then I think that's how it's just like spread. I guess why did he want the lights off? Was he like worried that there, I mean, like was a camera on?

Starting point is 00:31:27 It seemed like he was attempting to do this in secret, right? Yeah. No, he definitely was attempting to do it in secret. But it's also like we're on reality TV. Like nothing we do is in secret. And it was going to happen sooner or later. so yeah. Gessania, were you caught off guard when when Jack kind of made the move on you or like what

Starting point is 00:31:51 were like or you were just kind of like, hey, that's why I'm here. No, I was kind of surprised because I feel like a lot of the guys were intimidated, but by me at first so they weren't really like approaching me. And actually, they didn't even go like the time that me and Jack actually like started like conversing with each other. But yeah, it was, no, it was surprising because I'm like, well, finally he got like the courage to kind of speak to me because i mean i always kind of like looked over at jack but i was just like i don't want to you know do anything i don't want to put too

Starting point is 00:32:24 much pressure so if he wants to come help him and yeah he eventually did uh give us the play by play okay so the the temptation haven's actually really nice in there there's champagne everything in there we actually popped open the champagne we were drinking um he did want me to keep i remember when we left the temptation. He like, I know I had made a comment like, oh, that turned down. And that was because like, the only thing kind of like did was like,

Starting point is 00:32:51 he was like sucking on my toes. Suck it on your toes. I like, I like my toes being sucked on. So that's what I had said on. So that's what, that's what had happened. Okay. And I mean, obviously, like, we were out and stuff, but there was no, no sex going on.

Starting point is 00:33:11 How frisky did things get once y'all got into Jack's room? We only saw him smack your booty. How frisky did things get? No, nothing ever really got too far other than just speaking out. I don't know. It was just a very intense makeout session. But I did stay the room at night. But yeah, once again, nothing like beyond just a very, you know, intense makeout session, honestly.

Starting point is 00:33:38 Justenia, what happened with you in Summit? Because it seemed like you were his physical type. We heard him say that. And then we saw him ask you out. You guys had seemingly like a decent date. And then nothing after that. Yeah, I'm just going to say my personal opinion. And I really think Summit was just trying to be smart and not get tempted fully.

Starting point is 00:34:04 So I think, honestly, Summit was avoiding me to like actually. like get tempted. So, I mean, me and Summer were really cool. Like, that's just, you know, we had a great, like, friendship in the villa. I love Summit, you know, but that's just my opinion. Like, he did not want to really, like, explore because, I mean, if I was, like, his physical type, like, he would have for sure folded if he would have

Starting point is 00:34:31 gave it the time of day. So have either of y'all had any conversations with Cheyenne? Um, really? Oh yeah, I'm just gonna say. What if we heard that maybe you might have reached out to Cheyenne post-filming? Oh, I've reached out to her. No. I don't think either of us had.

Starting point is 00:34:56 I mean, I know some of the other single girls have talked to her. But from what I know, I mean, I know a majority of us I don't think have. No, I've never reached out to her. Yeah, me neither. Have either of y'all kept in contact with Jack at all? I mean, I had minimal conversation with him. So we, after filming him and I had like a day in Hawaii together that we kind of like stayed at the resort and spent whatever it was fine. And then we talked for a little bit after that.

Starting point is 00:35:32 But have you seen that he's blonde now? No. I've seen something come up and I hate the blonde hair. I'm sorry. I saw it on, I think it was, I think I saw it on Mikey's story. And it's so funny because we had numerous conversations in Hawaii about him going back to blonde. And I was like, I have never been with a blonde. Like, blonde just normally isn't really my type.

Starting point is 00:36:01 And I was like, don't, don't do it. Don't do it. It looks terrible. Jenny did. I know that you guys hang out with. the men a lot. Watching it back, do you feel like you kind of see where some of the women were coming from a little more, specifically, like any of the couples? Absolutely. Yeah. Which are the ladies did you like empathize and understand the most? I mean, I guess I would say Cheyenne, like, I feel like

Starting point is 00:36:30 it's definitely not nothing nice to see. The other couples, I don't know, I feel like there's I don't really like the drama with theirs, but with Shai and I for sure. Yeah, I feel like watching it back, there was definitely some very emotional moments where I was like, this is a really hard watch. Like, I've been cheated on in the past and I know how hard it is and how shitty it feels. So like watching them go through everything I went through, it's very like, it's gut-wrenching and it's really hard to watch. but it's also like why did you guys come here? Like I would never ever sign up for anything like this if I had a boyfriend. Neither.

Starting point is 00:37:18 Justineo, why did you give Mikey your bracelet? Honestly, it was just off like first impression. I'm just going to be honest. Like I've never really been to like date like white men. So yeah, I just went towards Mikey. He was more like. Like, just off first impression. And then was there just no chemistry with him or did he?

Starting point is 00:37:45 I mean, I know kind of India was saying like he just is giving homeboy, like, fun vibes and not really being serious. Yeah, like off the bat, like literally the first conversation, it was very, like, friendly and like, yeah, homeboy, home girl. And that's just immediately how I took it. And I was, I was perfectly okay with that. What was your overall read on, Mikey? I'm curious from the both of you because like he came in with like a lot of bravado like a big talk about how he used to be in college like I was a dog I was a player all these like kind of almost in a like you know it's like on one end it sounds like he's

Starting point is 00:38:24 trying to take responsibility while almost kind of bragging at the same time of like the success he had with ladies but like was that like what was Mikey like for you two to get to know, did that kind of story that he told about his past match? So, Mikey, you got to know on Temptation Island. No, like when Mikey tells me, or what he was telling stories about him in college, it just doesn't, I just can't even make him clear, because the whole time in the bill, he just gave such lover boy, very, very, and emotions, very emotional. He literally cried every day.

Starting point is 00:38:57 He would wake up at 6 a.m. I'm like, the crack of dawn, just like, in feeling. So I don't, I just can't even. and believe he that type of person. All is legit. I feel like the show, watching it back, made him look much worse than he actually was. Like, genuinely in the house,

Starting point is 00:39:16 he was so incredibly respectful and, like, best friend vibes with literally everyone. Like, I don't think a single person in there would have been like, oh, yeah, no, Mikey was trying to get at me, like, at all. There was none of that. Yeah. At the same time, though, I imagine if you were,

Starting point is 00:39:34 in Sydney's shoes, it would be difficult to hear your boyfriend say to women like you two. It's like, oh, I could fall in love with you guys. Like, it's just like, he was still kind of flirting in a way, you know? And it's just like, if you saw that, like, wouldn't it piss you guys off?

Starting point is 00:39:53 Or, you know, because it is interesting that Cindy felt the way she did about Mikey. So he was at least doing something that made her feel a certain way like she wasn't valued the way Maybe Xavier seemed to value her. I don't know. I didn't see Mikey come off as, like, flirtatious.

Starting point is 00:40:11 I mean, he probably made a couple, like, little side comments, but I don't think it was that serious. Like, I don't know. Like, I didn't think it was that serious. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:23 I mean, like I said before, I think watching it back and seeing, like, what he said in confessionals and everything, I absolutely understand where Sidney's coming from with being upset. But I think the second he got out of confessionals, he went right back to being like best friend material and like respectful with everyone. So like I get how she would be upset. But also like in the house, he was he was not like that. He was not flirty. And act like whatever he was saying confessionals, he didn't have the boss and like dude.

Starting point is 00:40:53 Yes, yes. Like I legit think he was just talking to talk. Like obviously he's been watching so she doesn't know. But like no. Who had the most bravado or most swag between the men? Oh, I don't even. Honestly, I don't think anyone. You said if I were not on this island.

Starting point is 00:41:16 Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Was Jack Rizz and you love Carter? I don't know. I feel like it was, I don't know. I feel like it was kind of hard for all of them to kind of like Riz because they've all been in relationships for so long. So like when they tried to Riz, it was kind of just like, oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:38 They're off their game. Yeah, they are. What about some of the other tempters in the women's villa? Like, have you guys mingled with them at all? I personally haven't. I haven't met any of them. I've only seen them like when we were crossing paths at the airport, but I have yet to like really think them.

Starting point is 00:42:00 I haven't. Um, honestly for me, I think being in the, being on the island is such a weird experience. Like, relationships build so much faster when you're there than they do in real life. So it's like, it's such a unique experience that you literally cannot compare to anything at all. Like, there's, I think, with all the dates and everything I was going on with Jack, it's like, how can you not build some sort of relationship there with everything? that you're going through. It's so romantic. It's so nice.

Starting point is 00:42:34 It's such a different experience. But in regard to like the tempters, I genuinely love all of them. I don't think there's a single one I dislike. Even the temptresses, I think the casting did so incredible with all of the singles. Every single girl and every single guy

Starting point is 00:42:54 is so hot, so sexy, and their personality is all on 10. Like I love every single one of the singles. Agreed. Is there any couple that you were rooting for when watching it back? I'd probably say Summit and Kaylee. Yeah. Like, I already knew they were going to just be okay.

Starting point is 00:43:15 Coal and garlic. I didn't really understand the other situations that they were having because in the house, Cole did not do a damn thing. Did you watching it back see where she was coming? from with like what she wanted out of Cole? Or do you kind of feel like it wasn't fair? I just remember her talking about like the trust issues that they had and stuff, but I don't know, just like being in the villa, I didn't, I didn't like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:43:44 I didn't really converse with Cole. I didn't really have a relationship with Cole. So I just, I don't really have an opinion on that. I don't know how far it does. I mean, so Cole and I, there was one night where me and Cole had a really good conversation and it was very friendship vibes. It was basically me being like, so me and Cole, we live like 10 minutes from each other. And I was like, you know, when we get out of here, I really hope that we can be friends because I'm like, nobody else from the cast lives in San Diego

Starting point is 00:44:11 except for me, Cole and Scarlet. And I'm like, I feel like we can relate so much together. So we might as well be friends when we get out of here. I'm like, obviously, I think you and Scarlett are going to make it out of here. The way you've been acting, Cole, I think it's nothing but like great vibes from your relationship and I would love to be friends with the two of you out of here. I just think it's hard when the girls in the other house are seeing such a different side of us. Like, obviously I wouldn't want to be friends with me either outside of here. So, like, I get it. But Cole was definitely a lot harder to kind of relate to and talk to than the rest of the guys.

Starting point is 00:44:48 Oh, interesting. It was so reserved. Like, did it almost feel like he didn't want to be there? Yeah. Definitely came off as a. that. Yeah, 100%. Like, I don't think at all. Do you get the impression, like, watching it back that, like, that Scarlet almost like was fine, looking for, like, if you or her, do you think it's especially she's just trying to look for a way out of the relationship, or do you feel like

Starting point is 00:45:13 she was there to actually test the relationship? Watching it on TV, because obviously we didn't, like, know any of them while filming. It kind of, like, came off as that, but, yeah, I don't know. I didn't really I didn't really understand the problems that they were having. Like she kept talking about the trust issues, but like I said, I never really conversed for Cole, so I don't even know what issues they really had. I don't know. Yeah. I think it's just like I, not even just Cole and Scarlet, but like all four of the couples, I said this so many times during filming.

Starting point is 00:45:47 I'm like, I'm trying so hard to be empathetic with you guys right now, but I just would have never put myself in this situation to begin with. So I don't even know how the couples were feeling, like going into this. Like, was Scarlet pushing Cole? Was Cole pushing Scarlet? Like, I don't know and I don't get it. All right. Well, we appreciate ladies taking the time. It's been fun to kind of get some behind the scenes tea on Temptation Island.

Starting point is 00:46:13 But you guys survived it. You're, hopefully this was a fun experience. All right, ladies. Thanks for taking the time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Starting point is 00:46:21 Bye. This episode is brought to you by Quo, spell QUO, the smarter way to run your business communications. Spring is a natural reset point, and if you've been putting off cleaning up the messier parts of your business, now is the time to tackle that project. Streamlining your communications is one of the quickest and easiest upgrades you can make. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with over 3,000 reviews built for how modern teams work. That's why more than 90,000 businesses from solo operators to growing teams rely on Quo to stay connected, professional, and consistently reachable. You know what it's like to call a plumber electrician or maybe a landscaper in need. And when they don't answer, you move on to the next. Don't lose customers by missing those calls.

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Starting point is 00:48:50 editing, get ideas down faster and move from draft to done with less friction. Use AI chat to brainstorm ideas. Refine it with contextware suggestions that fit what you are working on. It works seamlessly across more than 500,000 apps and websites. So your support is always there when you need it. In a word of generic AI, don't sound like everyone else. With Gramerly, you never will. Download Gramley for free at Grammarly.com. That's Gramerly.com. Amanda, welcome. Hi. We're so excited to have you. Thank you for having me. We're so excited. I'm so happy. You asked multiple times. We like persistency. I'm a very persistent guy. Sometimes it's the only way you get what you want. Oh, I believe that fully. As a whole in life, yes.

Starting point is 00:49:32 And were you nervous to come on? Not because of you or anything you've done, but because to people who work in publicity told me not to. Perfect. They work for. Perfect. Talk to a great start. Can I be honest? Have they been to our senior? studio. Have they had a client on the show? I will or will not say who said it. They just, they were just trying to be protective and look out for me. I mean, honestly. Well, we are sending them love. We are. We are. We are sending them love. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't bad. They weren't being mean or anything. They were just like, you've kind of been through a lot this season. Like, I don't know if you should go on that one. Do they think we're tough? I think they were afraid of a

Starting point is 00:50:11 gotcha moment. That was what was said by both of them, the word that was used. I feel like we are like the least gotcha pocket. We're always like, if you want that. taken out. We'll take it out. I don't think people realize that. We will literally, we have no interest in airing things that our guests don't want on. We don't pretend to be journalists, you know. Right. So it's like... Yeah, you want everyone to be happy with the final cut.

Starting point is 00:50:31 Yeah. I want you to like share it and be like, oh, I had so much fun and promoted and not be like, oh my God, I hated, yeah. Nick's also been one of your biggest fans this season. Yes. He's been defending you. Thank you. So I don't watch the show.

Starting point is 00:50:46 And I tell Instagram that I'm not interested in housewife's content. I literally go, not interested, not interested. I've kept my feed where it's my feed, not a housewife commentary place. So I don't see a lot, which is probably better for my mental health. I have been doing that recently too, where you're like, I'm not interested in this. And it is such a like, let's create Instagram and our lives. What other people think of us is none of our business.

Starting point is 00:51:11 I know. But I asked one of my assistants to gather what she could find. And she found two clips where you were being very fair. Like you weren't just like raving fan, but you were on my side and you were making fair points. I find you really interesting and compelling. And obviously I'm excited to get to know you better here, which is why we like to have people like you on the show as someone who has been on reality TV before. I know what it's like to feel siloed or have people like make sweeping judgments of you or kind of oversimplify your personality. But I find you to be.

Starting point is 00:51:44 Yeah. Like you're a refreshing. addition to this show and a lot of the discourse on the show that we're watching is centered around the rest of the women's thoughts and feelings about you. Without asking me. Yeah. Kent, did you notice that? Amanda open up more. Amanda, tell us about your past, but like without very much asking me, and when they do ask me, it's like, tell us about the cult. It's not like, you know, I don't feel like I was asked many questions about the things they supposedly wanted to know more about. I don't think anyone wanted to know anything. So let me ask you this.

Starting point is 00:52:18 Has being a housewife met your expectations for what you thought it would be? I had no expectations. Okay. That's a good starting place. I hadn't watched the show. I mean, I had seen, it's weird. The show is so in the culture, like, so in the zeitgeist that, like, I knew, I recognized people's names, but I couldn't put Sutton with Sutton or Derreet with Derreet. Like, I really didn't know anything about it.

Starting point is 00:52:45 When I first told Eddie that I had got a text. inquiring if I would be interested. He was like, so you're going to sit around a dinner table and fight with old ladies. So like that belief or that idea that that's what the show is, that's in my awareness enough. And I was like, I don't want to fight with people on television, you know. I even remember saying to my therapist that. And she said, well, no one can make you fight. And I was like, so if I'm someone who doesn't fight over useless things and I go on a show where people tend to fight, well, I was like, I think I'll just be me. I literally run this by the producers, the showrunner, everyone ahead of time. I'm like, I'm allowed to just be me, right? If it's a situation I don't think

Starting point is 00:53:22 is worth fighting, I don't have to do something not true to me, right? So like, I'm kind of going in, gauging to what degree I'm allowed to be me. But then as far as my expectations, this may be naive, but I just thought, okay, they're telling me this is like a group of friends. This is my new group of friends, a new group of friends. So what do I do in a new group of friends? I just try to get to know everyone and just see what's there. See who's my friend. See who's my friend. See who's not. And that's my whole premise. So if someone's taking an interest in me, there's an opportunity to grow a friendship like Kyle. I wanted to just make friends and see that what was there and just be myself. But there's a lot going on besides that. Yeah. That you can't really account for or understand.

Starting point is 00:54:06 Like the conversations about the ways you choose to move or not move. So in the sense, if you're like, hey, I'm going to be me and I don't want to engage in this type of fight or whatever. It's like you don't realize how the rest of the group will respond to whatever choices you make. That's one of the things. So like me not flying off the handle. That means I'm hiding something. That's weird to me. That means I'm not being myself.

Starting point is 00:54:31 That means I'm wearing a mask. That means I must be lying because I'm not freaking out about something that doesn't matter to me. And the thing that wasn't mattering to me, the thing that I couldn't make matter to me, no matter how hard I try. was this fight with Derreet. Like I, we've all seen the scene at Kathy's now. I didn't talk bad about her. I didn't. Jennifer says, you know,

Starting point is 00:54:52 her ex got mad about saying she's an alcoholic. And I say, well, if it's true. And then I say, well, yeah, she probably should talk bad about the father of her children. And then Jennifer says, well, shouldn't she be able to talk to her friends? And I say, fair, yeah, she should. That.

Starting point is 00:55:06 We had to talk about that for four dinners. Four dinners. And they're like getting mad. me for not having a lot to say about it, for not owning my feelings. We have all seen now there were no feelings to own. It was a very benign group conversation. I didn't say anything horrible about her. She decided I must have been saying horrible things about it. And then we talked about it at four dinners. Derreet brought it up at four dinners. And I didn't have a strong opinion. Yes, I believe as a whole, as a co-parent, we have to be careful to talk about our co-parents. Like, I think about this

Starting point is 00:55:41 every day. Like all the time I'm aware, like that we're a family unit, the kids could never hear me say anything about their mom that would hurt them. This is on my mind all the time. So I have an opinion about that. That matters. But I wasn't going around on a crusade about how to read should or shouldn't do anything. I was asked about it at one dinner and then I had to talk about it at four more. And because I didn't have a strong opinion about that, now we have this whole narrative. Do you also find it confusing I do as fans? Because it always seems like many of the housewives are like they have these rules. Don't talk about my business. Don't talk about my partner don't talk about my kids and then like i don't want to talk bad about my partner's kids we also

Starting point is 00:56:15 see like rachel zo just absolutely eviscerating her ex-husband in front of her kids right do you find that confusing almost like to be a double standard within the group everything's a double standard within the group okay everything me casually mentioning designers when everyone mentions does like we can't get through a scene they put how much our shit costs on the bottom of the screen you know what i mean like The show is kind of about what we're wearing a little bit. So when I say what I'm wearing, that's a thing, but everyone else says what they're wearing. Like me somehow being a victim because I say, yeah, on the anniversary of Zion's death, I'm in kind of a fragile state. And you continuing to try to get me to talk about this thing that I don't even know what you're asking me because I never have spoken badly about you.

Starting point is 00:57:01 Like that felt attack-y to me. It didn't feel comfortable. When I re-watched it, I was like, okay, accost was a strong word. It was a strong word, but it's how I experienced it. And can we tell a mother or anyone not to experience anything on a sensitive day at a sensitive time? I thought that scene was crazy for Doreet to like brush over the fact that you were like, today's not the day. Yeah. And it really felt like I see this more with Beverly Hills than other Housewives franchise where it almost seems like the women are talking about production without talking about production in a way where it's just like,

Starting point is 00:57:38 this is what we're talking about. And it's just like, you know, it felt like Doreet was determined to have this conversation come hell or high water. Well, I think she had something written on her phone. Maybe what she wanted to say to me, maybe a little note she took. I don't know when she wrote that note.

Starting point is 00:57:54 But she glances at her phone, she talks to me, she glances at her phone where she keeps talking. Like she had decided that that dinner needed to have a conversation. Why do you feel like Doreet has it out for you? I don't think she does. Can I be, I think she needed a storyline. I think it seemed easy.

Starting point is 00:58:10 I think this girl we just met told me she cared about me, was praying for me, one of the best for me, which is all true, all happened, and then was speaking bad about me, I can make her look horrible, I can make her look crazy.

Starting point is 00:58:21 I have to go after her, I have to go after this. Because we see me try to repair it. I really try at the Santa Monica dinner and the first Italy dinner. I try to, I want to make it right, because I have no desire to fight with someone

Starting point is 00:58:36 who I had been praying for and who I did. want the best for, right? Yeah. Do you feel like you were maybe collateral damage in the relationship of Doree and Kyle? Maybe. Say more about what you think that means. Because I feel like a lot of the narrative of the season is Kyle speaking through you to Doree almost

Starting point is 00:58:54 or saying that you're using Kyle to get at Doree? I think, honestly, just this is my opinion. I think that whole thing is really weird and immature. I kind of feel like we're in high school when those kind of ideas start. coming up for sure because I mean maybe maybe there's truth like I see it online and stuff here and there and maybe there's truth to all of it but like okay Kyle's an adult grown person Doreet's an adult grown person they have 10 years of history whatever all that is has nothing to do with me or anyone else I can't make them fight no one can make them fight and if either of them

Starting point is 00:59:30 which I don't think Kyle did this but if any of them were to use someone out like I think the whole thing about Kyle gathering minions or whatever on her crusade is also really silly and stupid. Kyle's the person I spent the most time with on and off camera. I will say she's incredibly consistent. She's the same on and off camera. She's one of the only people who's exactly the same on and off camera. And Kyle never tried to persuade me into anything.

Starting point is 00:59:54 A topic was, Derreit's going through this thing and she's telling everyone about it all the time and Kyle's concerned about it. That's just a topic. So for Kyle to tell me how she feels, I don't think she was trying to persuade me. Also, she didn't persuade me. No. What I said at Jennifer's is what I think, like, she should be able to talk to her friends, and she should keep in mind that this is airing on television,

Starting point is 01:00:15 and this is someone she has to continue to co-parent with, and that if he had a problem with you saying he had a problem with his relationship with alcohol last season, they'll probably have a problem with you saying he's a bad parent this season, right? So, like, all of this is just really logical opinions, not something Kyle had to convince me of. Kyle literally only, the one thing Kyle said was, yeah, this was hard on them last summer. So I'm concerned that she's talking about it again. That's like all Kyle.

Starting point is 01:00:40 This wasn't something Kyle talked to me about like, she wasn't like texting me about it. She said like one thing on camera. You guys saw it. The rest of the time we didn't talk about that. Does that make sensefully? Yeah. Well,

Starting point is 01:00:51 you come across to me as someone who and why I liked you. It's just and it was kind of almost like, why is the audience not receiving Amanda the way I am? Because like it's a woman audience, right? You know, you think you always hear other women wanting to prop. They say you want to prop women up. We want to look for women who are taking charge of their lives, own their own business, you know.

Starting point is 01:01:11 You seem someone who's very grounded and, well, I don't doubt you have a lot of feelings about things, but you seem to be the type of person who is very in control with your feelings. Emotionally regulated. Yeah, exactly. Well, we all get to choose who sees different sides of us and different layers, and that's not a bad thing. That's actually, like, healthy in relationships that, as you know, people better, you show them more. And it seems like it's being used against you.

Starting point is 01:01:35 your ability to like remain calm and heightened situations where some of your peers almost find that intimidating or I don't know what it is. So I took conflict resolution classes in grad school and someone who was we took these conflict classes in Israel, some of them. And someone who I was in grad school with, I was getting a master's in counseling and she was getting a master's in dispute resolution. But she wrote on Instagram the day, our professor should be so proud of you. And I was like, I never even thought about that. Like I did think about that as a therapist, you know how to have like kind of a blank slate and take in everything without showing it all on your face and like gather information before you respond. That is a therapeutic skill. But more specifically, when I was taking dispute resolution classes, it was about can you remain calm and not escalate a situation.

Starting point is 01:02:26 So this is actually training I have. And it comes in handy in daily life. Like if someone, the crazy guy on the streets coming at you, or whatever. Like, you want to know how to not escalate situations. So if people are getting riled up, so the way this looks in this particular friend group, Doreet's getting riled up.

Starting point is 01:02:46 And as Doreet gets riled up, she talks with her hand and she makes crazy faces and she tries to make yourself really big. We all know, well, I didn't know. Now I know your words are caught, but your expressions are caught. So if you want something known and it's not a time for you to speak,

Starting point is 01:02:58 make your crazy expression. So Doreet will be here doing her bigness. And then I will see Bose making her, faces and I'm just thinking like who would want to escalate that more. I'm thinking say calm, grounded, regulated things so we can all get on the same page, all hear each other and clear this up because that is resolution. But I guess if we resolved everything at every dinner, it would be a boring TV show. I guess so. But I wasn't trying to make a TV show. I was trying to be who I am. We're big fans of Bose and she's also another very successful accomplished businesswoman.

Starting point is 01:03:33 And for whatever reason, she seems to very much, the way she talks about you in your business, she almost frames you as almost like a con artist. Why do you think that is? Because on one end, I become such a fan of you watching. I also am like a fan of Bose and like, you know, and my perception of Bose is like, when Bose says something, you should listen. She has a good read on people. And yet, like, I feel I have a good read on people and I'm watching you.

Starting point is 01:03:59 And I'm like, I don't know what the big problem is. Why do you think she? What do you think? I have thoughts. What do you think? As someone who likes her? I really don't know because I don't know her that well, but the easy answer is maybe she's a little intimidated by you or jealous of your success. I don't want to maybe, I don't want to assume that about Bose, but like you know her, you've met her, you've interacted with her. I could only guess. I have a theory. I have a theory. What's your theory? From what I've seen on camera, obviously, don't know either of you personally. But like you guys are very polar opposite people. kind of in the way that like you experience like the world.

Starting point is 01:04:37 Yeah, you're a very logical person, but I think in the way of like talking about, you know, your business is based off of like manifestation. I think to her that just doesn't like clock. But she teaches it. Yeah. I think this is a theory. If you are someone who is incredibly accomplished,

Starting point is 01:04:53 has gone out and achieved everything you've ever set out to achieve, except maybe a few certain things didn't go exactly how you thought they would. And then you see this girl like to, 10 years younger than you, who's done the things you couldn't quite figure out, how would that fill to you? It would be something you'd have to process. And if that person makes things look easy, like, that's kind of who they aren't. Like, it takes a lot of hard work to make something look easy.

Starting point is 01:05:19 But I am an expert at the things I do. So they do look easy for me. Like, I am great at internet marketing. I am great at online sales. I am great at teaching the spiritual and energetic principles I teach. I'm great at teaching the business principles. Like I had been doing it for 15 years. I am great at it.

Starting point is 01:05:35 And that makes it look easy. I think it could possibly easy for someone like Bose to think, how come she's able to do this and do this so easily when I worked so fucking hard? But I worked so fucking hard, you know? You don't get this many clients and students not, like, I mean, I didn't take a day off for 11 years. I still barely take a day off on vacation. Not because I can't. I have a whole team.

Starting point is 01:05:59 I can do whatever I want. Amanda walked in holding a laptop working. Yeah. It was really cool. It was awesome. I don't stop working, but because I love it. Because I'm good at it and I love it. Like I could absolutely let my team and I have, but I could let them do way, way, way, way more. And I could chill the fuck out. We could hire a copywriter. I don't have, I write all the copy for every email, every sales page, even every Instagram caption. Like I'm obsessed with what I do. And so then for them to say like she won't stop talking about our business, what else is there? All the only things. I talk about because they're my only interests or business and family. That's it. And that's why I'm really good at them, both. It's because they're all I pay attention to. You're obviously a very confident person and very self-assured. Is it ever get frustrating? Especially, it seems like the audience of Beverly Hills almost wants you to apologize or come across as more humble. And do you find that to be frustrating at times? I think humility is like such a scam. Let's what was,

Starting point is 01:06:57 it was an actual scam. Like, let's look at the definition of humility. No, her. Definition of humility. Oh, I found a humble definition. Okay, say that again. The definition of humble is having or showing a modest estimate of one's value or importance. Yeah, so it used to say, or the way I remember it is the modest or lowly estimate of one's value or importance, right? Does that get us anywhere?

Starting point is 01:07:24 Do you know anyone who by thinking lowly and humbly about themselves got anywhere? No. Do you think underestimating your importance and underestimating your value is how you got here? Definitely not. How did you get here? By thinking I could when no one else did. Hello, manifestation. I agree.

Starting point is 01:07:47 Right? Everyone I know who got anywhere decided they were valuable. They were important. And what they had to give and what they had to say and what they wanted to do mattered. Like mattered on the planet. It mattered for their industry. matter to their population, their audience, whatever it was they felt they're meant to do, that their product or their service needed to be in the world. I don't know anyone who got

Starting point is 01:08:07 anywhere by thinking my product or service or my voice isn't enough. So no, I don't value humility at all. That being said, I treat people well. I'm kind to people, all people, whether they're supposedly above or below me in whatever way we're ranking people. Like, I'm kind to everyone. I don't think I'm above anyone, but I view myself, my work and who I am as important and valuable. And you're not going to apologize for it. No. And I'm going to be proud of my success like all day long. Well, let's also look at this because this is such a mind fuck for me. Okay, so say I have an audience and a business where being proud of myself, bragging on myself, talking about my success and my accomplishments is widely considered inspiring, empowering, motivating, and showing other women what's

Starting point is 01:08:55 possible. So say I have that going on for say 15 years and then I walk into a room we're doing the exact same thing is now a bad thing to the women and the viewers. I could barely wrap my head around that. I'm like what? Me saying what I have doesn't make you want to go get more. Like I could not get it. But it was without context often. But that doesn't mean the context wasn't there. For sure. I gave context. The money queen dormat. Isn't that cute? It's my intruder syndrome that I have. I'm like, oh, this is a sign for robbers.

Starting point is 01:09:27 They're going to be like, we got to go in right now. It's the Money Queen and Co. They would have to get past the gate and the cameras and, like, the security to get the map. We don't like Money Queen and Co do our mat? I thought it was hilarious. I think it's so cute. It's awesome.

Starting point is 01:09:40 I think it's the best kind of silly fun thing for us to talk about. It's not serious. Yeah. A lot of fans took exceptions to the way you talked about your partner in a way that some people criticize maybe like emasculating him when you were talking about like, I make the money and things like that. Are there things that we didn't get to see as it relates to you talking about your partner? Yes. Yes. I can think of specific instances on and off camera with many different women on the show about what a wonderful father he is.

Starting point is 01:10:12 Like I'm here with you guys right now and he's feeding off work kids, getting them down to Newport, bathing them all. And I'm meeting them after this. Like that he can handle. anything in our family and that I can fully trust him to like incredible father and also we both work and we both provide and we both make money yeah I make a lot more and he thinks that's hot like this isn't an issue in our actual relationship like literally at all we have never thought about this it's almost like reverse sexism or something I don't know it's just like you're the man it's internalized misogyny 100 million percent it's like you're supposed to apologize for your success we've accepted

Starting point is 01:10:52 for eons of time that men can make a lot of many and everyone can know they're the ones making the money and that that gives them more power and more say and more whatever and women just have to deal with that and I'm saying like I make more money and he likes it and we're good with like why it was it should not be a problem it's not a problem for us the phone call in the car with erika there was no phone call there was no phone call I don't call people ask anyone who knows me I have team members that have worked for me for like over a decade that I've spoken to on the phone like once or twice. I don't call people period.

Starting point is 01:11:26 Okay, so can you break down that scene for us where they're like she was fucking, yes, and Casey, who I was audioing, went back and found it and she was like, you sent me three audios. They were between 30 seconds and one minute. And it was over like a 45 minute drive. So it's different.

Starting point is 01:11:44 Yeah. That is different. It is different. So it's not that when I think Erica says something like, girl, we all have businesses don't try to show off. There's absolutely a part of me that wants them to know I'm a business person. There's a part of me that wants them to see that side or whatever. So she's not not clocking if that's part of my attention there.

Starting point is 01:12:02 But also, that's just how I am absolutely all the time. I send audios when there's audios to send. And I don't care who's around. I have work to do. Back to the humility conversation. It also must be frustrating sometimes when maybe you hear some of your peers. Like the most recent episode, Doreet was, you know, she had her phone. photoshoot her party about her book launch, which was all...

Starting point is 01:12:22 Book cover. Confusing how she went about that. And the money she is spending on this doesn't track. Then she said something about like, before P.K., I had my own life. I was doing all these business things and all these fashion things. Now, I hear that and go, I don't know what that means. You just said the word business and fashion. You didn't really say what you did.

Starting point is 01:12:43 Wasn't a swimsuit line or something? Or was that later? That was later. But I imagine someone like you, who's like, you can be very detailed and you can speak with specificity on the things that you do. I would hear something like that from Doreet and be like it kind of sounds like bullshit. It's just like, you know, when someone says, I was in business. Does it ever get frustrating?

Starting point is 01:13:04 Like they're trying to compete with you in a way and you're not competing with them? Well, I didn't know we were doing hunger games. Like I really thought we were doing friends out to dinner going to Italy. Like I didn't know we were doing competition. You obviously are someone who gives advice for a living. And when you see, like, again, the Doreet's spending has been a storyline. Her divorce has been a storyline. I just took it as you were trying to be helpful when you were trying to give her some advice on how to move.

Starting point is 01:13:31 I think my advice was good. I rewatched it yesterday. We're creating a reel because I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with the rest of the season, like, content-wise. Is there anything I want to speak to that I didn't get to speak to that either, like, we don't talk about the reunion or just, like, that never came up again or whatever? And one is when I sit there and give her that advice. And so I rewatched it yesterday to record the clip of it so my team could put it with me doing like an explanation of it. So the advice being, decide who you want to be as an earner, as a breadwinner, as someone who is going through this legal battle. If you're going to be going like toe to toe to toe with this man, you need to keep your mind right.

Starting point is 01:14:09 You need to have your head on straight. Like I'm saying stuff like this to her, right? And then Beau says, what is this foo-foo-woo advice? That's great advice. It's great advice. If you understand mindset, identity work. I mean, like, even if you don't, though, like going into any complicated situation thinking, like, emotionally clouded is not the vibe. She seemed very emotionally clouded to me.

Starting point is 01:14:32 So I, and me and Bose even said some other things. You know, like, what do you want the outcome to be here? Like, what's your best case scenario? I said things like that. Bose said things like that. Bose was like amening me when I say things like that. But, like, it was a really great conversation. The what and the foo-foo-woo mess was very surprising to me.

Starting point is 01:14:52 What else do you feel like was surprising watching it back, whether it be some of the confessionals or some of the things maybe you just heard the women say in scenes that you weren't in? Well, I've said this before, but like Rachel, I felt like her and I got along just fine very easily throughout the summer. So I was really surprised when she was pretty critical in every single interview. Also, I haven't ever said this, so this is kind of fun. Rachel and I have a mutual friend, a close mutual friend, who's a spiritual teacher. His emphasis is on Kabbalah, and my emphasis is more, I have like a Christian background,

Starting point is 01:15:31 but he and I teach a lot of the same things. We apply energetic and spiritual principles to business and many in life and love. Like he and I do the exact same thing. And I like, is this an internalized misogyny? Is this me being a woman vocal about men? Like, I don't know. But with them, she's like, hey, can I get a ride to St. Bartz? And with me, she's like, it's not my vibe.

Starting point is 01:15:54 And I'm like, why? I'm like, did you not realize at some point that he and I have the exact same job? Like digital courses, speaking gigs, we do the same thing. And she just chooses to hate on you. You, I don't know. You saw that show. Yeah. So knowing she has a close friend, that is exactly what I do.

Starting point is 01:16:12 Overall, it seems like your cast wasn't interested in welcoming you with open arms or giving you the benefit of the doubt. It almost seemed like an initiation of making you prove yourself. But what are we proving? It would be my question. Like, it's, I asked people like off and off camera trying to understand like, what's the currency here? Like, what is the psychologist in me? It's like, what's the currency? Like, what is valued?

Starting point is 01:16:37 Like, and like, well, you have to own it and you have to say what you think. And you have to. And I'm like, I just met everyone. I don't have really super strong opinions yet. Like honestly, because now I know more from seeing fan commentary. Had I watched multiple seasons and come in with strong opinions, I probably would have come in with like the opinion that, I mean, honestly, it would have been like the opposite of Bose's opinion, but that would have been fine. Like, Kyle should be able to hold back whatever she wants to hold back. She's been on the show like 15 fucking years.

Starting point is 01:17:08 If she had a relationship, she couldn't talk about on the show. That's her prerogative. And then they say, well, then why be on the show? I'm, I don't know. I can't, I'm not a, I'm not a reality television show expert. But from the things I know about, what I believe about relationships, is you shouldn't be required to talk about anything you don't want to talk about out of guilt and obligation. That's like unhealthy motivators.

Starting point is 01:17:29 Like, we should be able to talk about what we want to talk about from like safety and connection and love. So I could have come in probably with strong opinions and then fought with people about that. But like, I never, like, I just. And when people say you didn't understand the assignment, I'm like, yeah, because no one would tell me what this assignment fucking was or what the rules were to this game I was dropped in the middle of. But at the same time, I kind of think I did understand the assignment if the assignment was like be yourself and be true to you and try to navigate whatever this is. The only other thing I'd say is the only like regret, because I'm not really someone that has regrets, is had I understood more quickly like, okay, people are going to come at you.

Starting point is 01:18:07 It's going to be a little bit triggering. you're going to be navigating like who's for me, who's against me. Is emotional safety available in this place? Like, had I, I don't think I, I didn't know it until I was in it. So once I'm getting like, okay, like this is kind of how these dinners can go. Once I like, wrap my head around it and I'm like, okay, this is what I said to myself right before the pizza dinner. The pizza dinner is the one where I say my life looks good because it is good.

Starting point is 01:18:33 Right before the pizza dinner, I'm like, okay, I need a new strategy because I'm hating these dinners and I'm not used to going to dinner with a strategy, right? Like, you just go to dinner to hang out. So I'm like, okay. And like, people aren't eating. They're fighting. And I personally want to eat my gluten-free pizza. Anyway, my strategy was ping pong. Whatever anyone throws at you, just throw back at them what you really think. You don't have to be harsh. You don't have to be rude. You don't have to be mean. You don't have to be different than who you actually are. Just come back with what you have to say quickly and like let the ball bounce. Because I could not figure out how to stand up to them while being true to me and the pizza dinner and then the vineyard are my first

Starting point is 01:19:12 attempts at it. So once I, and this was fascinating to me, when I ping ponged something back that's just intelligent and articulate and what I actually think, people fold very quickly. People like Bose get quiet. Like I had never seen her do that, right? Because she had thrown things at me and they were so out of left field. They were so wild to me. I didn't have anything to say back. So as I watch people kind of like fold and not have a lot to say back and things like the different. And things like the dinners, I end up leaving the dinners feeling like, okay, that wasn't my favorite dinner in my life, but at least I felt like I spoke my piece to whatever degree I could. I had fun after that. Like, you see me dancing at Rachel's. I have fun the rest of the season. I wish I could have

Starting point is 01:19:53 gotten to the point, because this is what I watched some of them actually do very well, and it was really a mind fuck. They'll fight at dinner and they'll have fun immediately after and immediately, like right before and immediately after. They'll be having fun. I wish I would have gotten there faster because once I started having fun doing the dinner table fight but then having fun the job got a lot easier but it took me a minute to get there that all makes sense right makes total sense I'll say the you bringing up the pizza dinner and saying the like my life is good because it is good looks good because it is good that was a moment I think where I def I was critical of you I think because it was like and maybe it is perfect and there's but it was like

Starting point is 01:20:36 I kind of wanted to see not, I mean, none of our lives are perfect. But I never said it was perfect. I just said it was good to my standard of good. Do these women just not create a safe place for you to like be like, you know, yeah, these are my struggles. This is what I'm going through. This is a hard thing. I think it's multiple things. I think when I would share struggles, like Zion dying, like it was very brushed over.

Starting point is 01:21:02 So I didn't get the impression anyone to hear what it was like to be me. because I'm actually a very vulnerable person. I don't have a hard time being vulnerable. Also to that end, and I wanted to talk to you about the cult, if that... Yeah, you can. But I don't think my life is perfect, but this is the thing about, and this isn't me like pitching anything. This is just like my literal belief. That's the thing about doing personal development work.

Starting point is 01:21:23 That's the thing about working on yourself is my life is curated and cultivated and manifested, but like in the best way. Like I think, and this is like some of its manifestation and some of us just really being intentional. I think a lot about like my family's schedule, like, and our morning routine. And I'm just thinking of the energy of our home and how everyone feels inside of our home continually. And I've been doing that with my business for a million years. So like it looks good because it is good, but it takes a lot of work to make it look good and be good, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:21:57 But it feels better than it looks, but it feels good because I work on it. And you're also, it sounds like you are coming from a place of, well, instead of focusing on what's not working, I want to focus on the, positive aspect. I'm absolutely an optimist at the same time. Yeah. But like if I have too many rough mornings in the row with my kids or whatever, I'd be going like, what's going on here? Like what is happening in the time they're waking up? Like what is, like what is all of this that's making this morning not feel good to me? But I do that continually with everything. I don't stand for a life that I don't love. I agree. Love it. To that end of not feeling like this was a safe space to be vulnerable, you know, hearing that you were in a cult, I've immediately, I'm fast.

Starting point is 01:22:36 I think a lot of people are fascinated with the word cult and what it means. And I wanted to hear more. I wanted to hear more about like, how did someone find themselves in this position? How did you get out of it? What did you learn from that experience? But like it got brought up in a way where immediately you're on the defensive. You're in a call. What's wrong with you?

Starting point is 01:22:54 Yes. It's like, but yeah, I mean, honestly, I'm genuinely interested. Like, could you give us a little background on that experience? And most importantly, like, how did you remove yourself from such a potentially dangerous situation? And how has that helped you become the person you are today? I quite, the way it's changed me is I question everything. I question every belief. I question every thought.

Starting point is 01:23:15 I question every expert. I like just when someone says, this is the way anything works from God to internet marketing to anything. I say why. Like I don't take anything just as the truth or whatever. And that's helped me create like a belief system in a life that I really believe in and stand by because nothing was just regurgitated or absorbed or borrowed from someone. You know what I mean? So that's how it's changed me. As far as how I got out is I was scared to death because I was leaving the only 200 people I had had contact with for like a long time. So you are leaving like community and family. So that's scary. But I also thought I was like leaving and losing God. And when I told the pastors of that church that fits all the criteria for a cult that like I wanted to leave and I just wanted to go to school and become a therapist and like do something with my life. Like when I told.

Starting point is 01:24:06 told them that they were like, and miss God? Like, God is here. Like, this is the place. Like, we, this is the promised land. We are the chosen people. Like, it was so like, the thing I wanted to do was so normal, right? Like, go to school and do something with your life is so normal. And it was so, like, how could you go be of the world? But I had been in that environment, because the verses be in the world, not of the world. That's where that comes from. But I was so in this environment where normal things weren't normal anymore. And anything that you hear every day for a long time that everyone around you believes can start to seem normal.

Starting point is 01:24:42 And I mean, but that's how like brainwashing works. Like it's, I say this word wrong. Cohesive, coercive persuasion. Like coercive, yeah. Coercive, thank you. Coercive persuasion. Like you are persuaded slowly, mentally. And it's not like the leaders of these organizations go, I'm going to brainwash people.

Starting point is 01:25:01 Like they are drinking their own Kool-Aid Yeah, they're big fans of their mission And they're a little power trippy and a power hungry And they want everyone to stay The organizations can't work unless people stay and contribute And pay their tithe and you know What did it feel like for you when the women Seemed confused that you weren't hurt or tortured

Starting point is 01:25:24 Or like they were all kind of like Nothing they don't know the criteria of a cult But like, I mean it's not that nothing happened I was told who to date, who to be friends with, where I could go, what I could do, what time to come home. There was beliefs about everything. Like, you're being controlled. You're being manipulated. And, like, that is one of the criteria of a cult.

Starting point is 01:25:43 Like, there's no criteria that says you have to be tortured or sexually assaulted if you look up what cults are. Yeah. They just kind of had a narrow view of what they thought it was. I mean, I think, I don't know, we're just always looking for the drama, right? Yeah. It seems like they are always looking for a way to discredit you. And that was just another way of like, well, I haven't heard of a cult that's not like hurting people. How is that not hurtful?

Starting point is 01:26:07 Mental, psychological and emotional abuse are hurtful. Totally. Yeah. And I mean, if you think about it, I don't, I can't remember exactly what everyone sees with me and Erica's conversation and then the Italy conversation. But the whole story is that me and many of the people like volunteering at this church, like helping it like run and grow and whatever. We knew those pastors since we were like 13, 14, 15, and they were like parents to us. So it's many, many, many years of being kind of like groomed and recruited to move with these people and do this thing. That's not scandalous to people.

Starting point is 01:26:45 My sister was still in high school and they're like, do you want to just, you know, leave your family and come be here with your sister? Crazy. Me and my sister filmed this seemed about that, but I don't think you guys got to see it. We did a FaceTime. But I don't, what is, it's not scandalous enough? To me, that's crazy. Looking back, that's crazy. I agree.

Starting point is 01:27:01 Mid-season, a lot of people speculated that either you were fired or quit because they didn't get to see you in some of those. The after show. Oh, Sutton's flight got delayed. Okay. I ended up putting that on my stories

Starting point is 01:27:12 because I thought that was such a weird, controversial thing. Okay. So Sutton and I were meant to be together. I did my first one with Kyle. I meant to be a Sutton on my second one. Sutton's flight got delayed. And so I was honestly kind of happy

Starting point is 01:27:23 because those things are long. And I was like, I bet I can knock this out in a few hours if it's just me and the producer. And we did. That was like the fastest taping. But yeah, no, I think Sutton and I would have had an interesting time. Erica and Kyle were meant to be together, which makes sense for the ending.

Starting point is 01:27:37 You're kind of grouped with whoever you're like in a good little camaraderie with at the end. So it made sense that they wanted me with Sutton because we had our whole Italy experience. Watching the chat, GPT, Google thing back that Erica did in the car, how did that feel for you? Because obviously Sutton brought it up. She did. Yeah, she told me about it. So how did it feel actually watching it back? That was, I think, from what I saw on the like little preview, what I say to Sutton is, who does that to another woman?

Starting point is 01:28:07 That's exactly how I felt at the time. Now that I know more about the dynamics of the show and how things can go, I don't feel shocked. But at the time, I really just thought, I would never, I've been in business for 15 years. I've had plenty of competitors. I have never in a million years tried to get dirt on anyone and then publicize it. I've just nothing in my brain can comprehend business people doing that to other business people. Like, it's just not how I live. It's mean-spirited too.

Starting point is 01:28:34 It means, it's crazy to me. It's crazy to me. And I think it's obvious that I already knew this, but housewives just put a light on it. People play different games and live by different rules and think the world works in different ways. I was not in a world that worked that way. You don't hear something crazy. Someone on my team was on a social media platform and they were watching comments kind of populate in real time. And they were like, these are bots.

Starting point is 01:29:03 These can't be real. So we ran a little experiment. They went and they commented one of my castamber's names to see what the replies were when the customer's name was commented. And it was like, she's such an inspiration, such a badass, women everywhere look up to her. And then they come in my name. Scamanda, scam artists. We all know she's lying. And they went, oh my God, these are bots.

Starting point is 01:29:29 I didn't know that's the game we were playing. So then we had to go back and we went back through different social media and we looked to see, well, where was this kind of strategy going on and ideas about me from the beginning of the season? So it started with I'm cast. We've never heard of her. Who is that? Like, those were bot comments.

Starting point is 01:29:49 Like, whoever wanted to undermine me started really. early in the season and had bots going from then until probably now. But think about that. Instead of me just being able to come on the show as this person who has an interesting business and an interesting life, the first thing, the commentary they are falsely creating about me is we've never heard about her. Who is she anyway? How can you be a money queen?

Starting point is 01:30:11 That's so crazy to say you're the money queen of Beverly Hills, which I never said I was. Like, I'm saying. I personally think it is an ongoing problem in social media period and in reality TV. and you're seeing more. I just didn't know that's the game we are playing. I had a really good habit

Starting point is 01:30:26 around not looking at Reddit period because it's just such trash. I didn't know that we were looking at it and creating strategies on it and hiring people. I think there's a lot of people

Starting point is 01:30:34 in reality TV and in the Bravo world who don't, like I don't think you're the only one who plays fair. I think there's a lot of great people. I also think there's a large

Starting point is 01:30:41 number of people on these shows who absolutely do the bot thing who try to get ahead of it. Well, then we had to re-evaluate well, what is fair? Do we need to be asking clients or students or a team member to go through and be monitoring things, be correcting narratives? Is that the fairness of this?

Starting point is 01:31:00 Like, not even trying to create falsehoods about other people, just being able to share a more true calendar narrative about whatever someone's saying about me. Like, I just didn't know that was part of what we were. I thought we were just like filming and getting to know each other. It's very Game of Thrones. Yeah, or whatever. Hinder games, Game of Thrones. Whatever these shows are. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:18 Yeah. Her games is pretty accurate. Yeah, Crystal Minkoff, who used to be on Beverly Hills, said that her husband, Rob, calls it Squid Games and high heels. Yeah. Can we talk about manifestation? Anytime, sure. Obviously, I think, like, you get a lot of criticism. Even myself, I think of myself as kind of a natural skeptic, you know.

Starting point is 01:31:40 That's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah. But I hear the word manifestation, and it kind of sounds a little foo, fluffy, whatever, kind of... That's so unfortunate, though. Yeah. Okay. I just want to be honest. But when we were talking before prior to this interview, and I was thinking about, you know, our conversation. And I think I said this to you, but like, I'm a big believer in like having the right point of view in any situation. And like you can drastically change your life by changing your point of view. You know, I know. And it's just like giving us a really great definition.

Starting point is 01:32:10 Giving like it is, and it just like taught me something to just like, sometimes it's framing or messaging. But like, yeah. It's a trendy word right. now. I've had a weird relationship with the word manifestation, honestly. When I first started my business, I used it a lot because I was woo-woo and my audience was woo-woo and everyone resonated with it. And then I got annoyed at a lot of like people teaching manifestation just doing a lot of weird shit that I didn't really believe in. So I had this whole chunk in my career where I talked about all the same stuff, but I only said like co-creation or being intentional and I avoided manifestation. And then I eventually went like, this is enough of a buzzword to the masses.

Starting point is 01:32:48 and I have things I want to share to the masses, so I think I'm going to use the word again. But like, I don't know that I think it matters what word we use. I think it matters that people realize that they have a lot of power in their lives. Do you want me to give a manifestation definition that helps the people? Sure.

Starting point is 01:33:04 Okay. This is all I think it is. Okay. This is what I think manifestation is. Lining up your thoughts, your beliefs, your words, your actions, and your energy with a common goal. That's it. When I want to manifest something,

Starting point is 01:33:18 I'm completely clear on what I want. I don't think thoughts that don't support what I want. And when thoughts float through my mind that are not in support of what I want, I'm checking those. I'm going, is that thought the absolute ultimate truth or is there another thought available? Is there another reality available for me? And beliefs are just thoughts we keep thinking. So I'm very aware about what I believe about my life and what I believe is possible for me. And I'm intentionally creating my core beliefs for how I believe life gets to work for me.

Starting point is 01:33:45 And the thoughts we think and the beliefs we hold create. emotion and create energy. And the easiest way to be an energetic match, if we're going to be woo-woo, an energetic match for what we want is being on the frequency of what we want. So if to make that really simple and not crazy, if I want something, I'm very aware of how it would feel to already have it. And I'm feeling that now. And I'm, attraction too, right? That how, yeah, that little part was a little bit law of attraction. Yeah. But I'm aware of how it would feel to already have what I want. And I try to feel that now and bring that to my experience now. But I think that alone without thoughts and beliefs and actions won't do anything

Starting point is 01:34:23 either. So law of attraction can only be one part, you know. And then what else was I going to say? Oh, and when I take actions, I take actions believing they're getting me to where I'm going. And all of that together is like how I conceptualize manifestation. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, what I took from that is something I truly believe is that and what most people discount is our ability to control our thoughts. Like so many of us are just like. Medic cognition. Did you know that's the highest form of intelligence. What's that? Metacognition. When someone is able to observe their thoughts, know that their thoughts are not truth, know that their thoughts are not just happening to them, know that they can change their thoughts. When you realize you can change your thoughts,

Starting point is 01:35:03 you are now creating new neural pathways. That is major. When you're creating new neural pathways, you're absolutely changing how you view the world. And then we have this thing called the reticular activating system that's having us scan the world and tell us what's useful and unuseful information. So if I believe like money is possible for me, I'm now scanning the world looking for money making opportunities. If I believe money is not for someone like me, I'm scanning the world going not possible, not available, not real won't work. You know what I mean? But yes, the ability to observe our own mind and choose what we think, I think is the most useful skill there could ever be for any of us. Yeah. I hate to break it to you. You believe in manifestation.

Starting point is 01:35:40 No, I've been saying he does for a while. I do. No, I mean, having that conversation with you, like it's yeah I just so like I think it can go so many ways so like we I believe all this everything I just said yeah so I think affirmations that's kind of a woo-woo thing but affirmations are things that can help people start to form new thoughts new beliefs through repetition because like exercises to get to that place well neuroplasticity says like if we think a new thought enough times you know tricking your brain into believing yeah so I love an affirmation I love meditation I love many meditations that's like woo-wool-w stuff, but I don't do any of that without belief and action and decision and movement every day, you know? So is it like that hard to conceptualize? No, it makes a lot of sense. Honestly, I very much believe in a lot of things that you talk about having you, you know, it's so true. But if you get just a clip of it without context. I just, I have a very pivotal memory. I brought up many times on the show. My first girlfriend, we broke up many times. And I'll never, And I was going through a bad breakup.

Starting point is 01:36:44 And my dad was like, dude, you have to get, just get over it. And I remember saying to him, there's a better chance of me levitating in this moment than me getting over it. And I remember so vividly that conversation because I truly believed, I believed I had a better chance of floating. Right. And getting over it. And then years go by, I look back and realize I just wasn't ready to believe it.

Starting point is 01:37:06 I didn't want to believe it. I wasn't ready to change my thoughts or my perception of it. Totally. That is a pivotal moment of my life when I think of. about when I'm stuck in a situation and how I get unstuck that I used to believe that I could float rather than getting over a relationship. And like that mental gymnastics I had to do,

Starting point is 01:37:23 like I guess helps me like realize I can change my thoughts. I can change my perception. I just never thought of it as a manifestation kind of exercise. Well, I mean, that's just the word we're using right now. But like law of attraction was a buzzword for a long time. These different words and ideas kind of float in and out of like, you know, pop culture or whatever. But what you're talking about really is willingness.

Starting point is 01:37:45 People can't change without a willingness and an openness to change. So if you're looking at a breakup situation or any situation with openness and willingness, you're probably going to be able to find a new perspective. If you're looking at it, you're not looking at it, and you're completely closed down and shut off. You're not going to see, you know? Like, these are things we all interact with all day long. I just like conceptualize them and break them down into steps for people, you know?

Starting point is 01:38:09 I want to say, what are your thoughts on, like, TikTok tarot card readers? or like manifesters on TikTok. What do they do? Tell me more. They'll be like, it'll basically, I think they get in your algorithm if your algorithms kind of looking like you're searching for something, right?

Starting point is 01:38:24 Algorithms are so fascinating. Yeah. And then you get a bunch of people they're reading tarot cards and they're like, this message is for you, no hashtags, whatever. Like if you see this, you're meant to see it and they pull tarot cards. And there's two camps,

Starting point is 01:38:38 ones that think, oh, this is for me. And usually what it will do, is let's say you're in a situation ship. You've been getting a lot of content about situation ships. Yeah, so now you're seeing the situation ship tarot card. And it's going to tell you that your situation ship wants to be with you. People might not like my answer. I think on one hand, that's just the fucking algorithm.

Starting point is 01:38:56 No, that's dumb. On the other hand, can God work through the algorithm? Sure. Has content been delivered to me that I felt like, oh, my God, I needed to see that. But I would gauge whether that content was from the divine or from the algorithm by based on whether it resonated with the period. It feels right. Because we all have to decide if something someone's saying to us resonates or not.

Starting point is 01:39:16 So it's not that I don't think we can get an answer on TikTok. But it's not every single thing available on TikTok is from like the divine. But I'm not mad at it. Like I've had moments of like, oh, I needed that thank you algorithm. Yeah. It's a fascinating tool. Yeah. But if someone's being like manipulative and saying it's always for you, like we all have to

Starting point is 01:39:33 keep using our brains. Yeah. There's some critical thinking aspects to it for sure. For all the commentary or accusations or criticisms about your business. being a sham or a con or whatever, how many of your clients have asked for their money back? Like, we have the lowest refund rate, like, ever. It's less than 1% right now. And then I'm assuming you will give that refund. So there's so much criticism about this. So I say on the show, over the summer I delegated a lot to my team because we were filming and

Starting point is 01:40:02 they were doing lots of things without me and whatever. And at that time, it was a 3% refund rate. I mean, I find that the refund rate is lower. The more I'm, the more I'm in. engaged with people and the more I'm like describing what it is we're selling and the more they know exactly what they're getting the lower refund right we have or whatever but it's never high it's like never ever ever been above 4% ever right now it's at one okay so I say on the show it's less than 3% right now it's 1% and um people on the internet are like oh because it's so hard to get a refund it's only a 48 hour refund policy and you can't go past the first module well like okay listen, this is kind of how like terms and conditions and like really standard operating procedures go in business.

Starting point is 01:40:44 We say 48 hours and don't go past the first module because we have to put the line somewhere. If we don't put the line somewhere, people will watch the course like six times over and in two months after a refund. So we have to put it somewhere. But I know my team and I know them well. I know my customer support team. I would love for someone to find someone who wanted a refund and didn't get one who reasonably, like in a reasonable, like in a reasonable amount of time consuming a reasonable amount of the content wanted a refund. I would love for someone to find some unhappy customer because I know my team and if someone's

Starting point is 01:41:16 been like, okay, it's been, you know, maybe it was longer than 48 hours, but we can tell they really just tried it and it wasn't for them. We're going to give a refund if that's the vibe. If we think you watch it all and try to download it and try to sell it, like no, no refund. Okay, that makes sense. But like that like every time I hear, well, it's so hard to get refunds. I'm like find one person who will say it was hard to get it. Find me one. Yeah. But also, I'm sitting here saying it looks strict, the 48 hours and it move past module one, but most of my industry just don't give refunds. Find another person

Starting point is 01:41:48 creating digital courses who gives them at all. Like that's what I would say about that. It's rare to give them and we do give them and not many people want them. Not many people want them. They want the content. Yeah. The only reason I ask that question is I think the proof is in the product that you're delivering and if it really was a problem, I imagine you'd have especially now that you're on Beverly Hills Housewives and you're receiving this criticism. If it was as bad as people, some people claim, there would be way more voices. You would have people speaking up. It's kind of the same thing like, I don't know if you're following Scamanda on the Summerhouse thing.

Starting point is 01:42:20 But like... Wait, she's a Scamanda too? I was going to say there's two Scamanda in Bravo world. You've been saved. I think no one's thinking of you anymore when it comes to Scamanda. That's good news. Okay, what did she do? She dated her best friend's ex-boyfriend.

Starting point is 01:42:34 Okay. Yeah. But I digress. So like, but they were done dating? Depends on who you ask. Okay. I'm not watching that show. To my point is you hear about this guy named West who was kind of seemingly kind of playing the, you know, a bit of a playboy, bit of a player or whatever, going out dating a lot of people.

Starting point is 01:42:51 You find out that he's now dating Amanda and that all these other women seem to be coming forward. Oh, I was dating him and I was dating him. Oh, got it. And that's a very, very typical thing in reality TV. If there was any truth to an accusation. A lot comes forward. A lot comes forward. I have a theory that one of my castmates was counting on a lot coming forward.

Starting point is 01:43:12 I think she thought, okay, there's a little bit of noise about some people being unhappy with her work on Reddit. Like in the, it's like there's these life coach snark threats. There's a little bit of noise about people not liking what she does. It's probably going to be really amped up. But from Bravo, a lot of people are going to come out from the woodwork. So I'm going to bank on the scam artist side and I'm going to look really smart. the end because I clocked her. And now we're through the season and nothing has happened because there's nothing. I'm not saying everyone who's ever taken my courses is like ever, but we have to have

Starting point is 01:43:46 the number of repeat customers. You have to have really happy customers to be around for 15 years. Before the show started, we had 21,000 students in 108 countries that have to run the numbers now. But like this is a business, you know? If you're asked back, where you'll come back next season as a housewife on Beverly Hills. I mean, can you see it? I would be really upset if you didn't. Really? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:44:07 I just, I find you to be a breath of fresh air. I think you're different. And for all the reasons you just talked about, like a lot of people have had opinions about, you know, the season as a whole, you know, do we find it entertaining? You know, are these, you know. Did you find the season entertaining? I found you entertaining.

Starting point is 01:44:22 Thank you. I enjoyed you. I enjoyed your scenes. And I thought you brought different conversations. And I do think, while we have a lot of like legends on this show from Kyle to Erica, who have been on it for a while, I think there might be a little bit of fatigue on their end of their willingness

Starting point is 01:44:37 to share certain things. Sure. And I honestly, as a fan of the show, I don't like the whole, like, digging up dirt stuff. I don't like, I think there's more interesting conversations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there should be. And I think you bring that to the show.

Starting point is 01:44:51 So I would be personally frustrated to find the thing I liked the most about this season to leave. I'm the thing you like most. Yeah. Thank you. That's so nice. I just didn't go in with the plan.

Starting point is 01:45:04 I don't know. Maybe you could go in with the plan. But then even the people who are nice to you, you end up hearing mean things they say about you in interviews. It's kind of, like, it hurts your heart sometimes. No, I couldn't do it. You couldn't do it. I have opted out on many reality TV opportunities that would put me in environments

Starting point is 01:45:21 that you have put yourself in. But I still. So because you're the bachelor? I was. Uh-huh. And that was a rough go? It's a different environment, you know. But unlike,

Starting point is 01:45:32 you know like bravo specifically it's trying to find dirt and character assassination type of stuff and i i would just rather not put me or my family through stuff like that so you've stayed reality show adjacent since then but not on a show yeah which i still get caught up in the fray more than i'd like to at times but like that's as much as i'm willing to do yeah fair do you feel like when you said i saw a clip you did it and you said something like it was people saying that i was too braggy or whatever and that's why no one likes me and you're you're you feel like you you were like, no, I think she just has a very, you said type A. She has a very specific brain and the brain she has, has gotten her where she is in life. And they're not seeing that.

Starting point is 01:46:12 Was that how you felt? You felt like, like when I was, yeah. Well, I definitely felt. Is that where your compassion from me comes from? Is having the same experience? In a way, yeah. I mean, I also, yeah, I mean, compassion to the fact that I had a lot of people say things about me that I knew that weren't true or I just, you know, I don't think I, you can put me in a type of box and I do think I think differently and I will speak my mind and I'm not a falsely humble guy. I like to think of myself as I have humility, but I'm not going to pretend to be humble to make someone I feel more comfortable. No.

Starting point is 01:46:46 No, I find false humility to be annoying and I find it to be a way people try to manipulate other people. And I just think it's bullshit. Yeah. And if my confidence in myself bothers you, that's a you problem, not me. Yeah. But you're kind of describing neurodivergence. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:01 Yeah, neurodivergent people think like this. Like I don't understand false ways of connecting. I don't understand social hierarchy. I don't understand rules that don't make sense to me. I don't understand boxes that don't make sense to me. Our brains are like, what is this? It's really off putting to people who are very good at following systems and structures and rules that really weren't designed for people who aren't neurotypical, honestly. All right.

Starting point is 01:47:23 I know you have to get going. We're getting the light. I really appreciate you. This has been a lot of fun. It was fun. Thanks for me. Come back if you want to. Okay, sure.

Starting point is 01:47:31 Tell your publicist friends. You had a good time. I was really advised not to. And I was like, why? Okay, great. But be sure to let them know. Okay, I will. Well, they'll see this.

Starting point is 01:47:41 Well, I really enjoyed you. I do hope you come back. Thank you. This has been as exciting and as fun as I thought it would be. So thanks for giving us an opportunity to get to know you. Thanks for having me, guys. Thank you. Thanks for listening, guys.

Starting point is 01:47:52 We will see you back tomorrow. Don't forget, we have Paul Walter Hauser on tomorrow. an episode you definitely are not going to want to miss. Be sure to check it out. Bye-bye.

The Viall Files - E1110 - Amanda Frances Unplugged, Summer House Insider Tea, Temptation Island Temptresses

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