The Viall Files - E1131 - Ask Nick - My Parents Are Mean Girling My Fiance

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Ask Nick edition! Our first caller is getting married THIS weekend and doesn't want her parents to "mean-girl" her soon to be husband. Our second caller is wondering if it's a red flag that she's only friends with guys and her ex. Meanwhile, our final caller is facing her partner's past of dishonesty, and questioning whether his job is an excuse for a wandering eye. "You have to be open to things changing for the right guy."   ARE YOU A MESS BECAUSE OF YOUR SITUATIONSHIP? OR JUST IN GENERAL? Email [e-mail] with all your relationship questions and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content featuring updates from your favorite callers? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + HERE: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Boll & Branch: Get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping during the Memorial Day Sale at https://bollandbranch.com/viall with code viall. Chewy: Right now, you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to https://chewpanions.chewy.com/viallfiles  Honey Love: For a limited time, Honeylove is offering up to 50% off sitewide during their Memorial Day sale. Use our exclusive link to shop at https://honeylove.com/viall  Nutrafol: For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit https://nutrafol.com and enter promo code VIALL. Storyworth: This year, give Dad a gift that captures who he really is, before the stories get harder to remember. Father's Day is Sunday, June 21st. Order RIGHT NOW and save up to $20 at https://storyworth.com/viall  **To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles    Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Caller One 37:06 - Caller Two 1:14:27 - Caller Three   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare

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How do they go about doing that? Well, it's not necessarily direct conflict, but just passing remarks and just like an overall lack of interest in getting to know him. It's been a couple of years that we've been dating and they're still at the stage of like he seems like a nice guy. And I feel like we should be beyond that point. now. So I'm just wondering, I don't think the wedding will be a problem. I'm sure everything will go fine. But I'm wondering what this looks like as we get into marriage. Well, what are you most

afraid of? Like what impact do your parents have on your life and specifically marriage? Right. So me and my soon-to-be husband, my fiance, we really connected on the fact that we are both like very family oriented people. When we first started dating, it was my family does everything together. And he was the same way. And we were really excited to like, you know, participate in that together. And then as things progressed, his family was the way that he had painted the picture of like being super family oriented, doing everything together. And my parents like really took a back seat. I felt like we used to do everything together. but now that he's in the picture, things have gotten kind of awkward and, like, touch and go. And I'm just really trying to, like, grapple with the fact that, like, maybe my family isn't

as close as I thought we originally were. So is it, do you think it's things changed or you think it's more maybe you weren't as close as you were? Or maybe it just looks different. Maybe it looks different. There's just been some, like, passing remarks that I wonder if, It's sitting on their minds as well. Like, for example, when we talked about taking pictures at the wedding, my mom wanted to make

sure that we got a picture of, like, just the four of us, me and her and my brother and without my husband. And I had, like, made it clear, like, no, my wedding day is not for that picture. I'm not too familiar with, like, the wedding picture rules. I imagine that the happy couple would be together in all of them. But I'm sure there's family, like, where it's just like just this family and that family. Yeah, yeah, potentially. Have you talked to your parents about this feeling?

So, yeah, I'm not necessarily conflict averse. I did bring it up with my dad a couple weeks back. And I didn't frame it as, you don't like my boyfriend. You don't like my fiance. You're not getting to know him. I had just, like, put it out there that I felt like we were disconnected. And there were conversations that I had been aware of that were happening without us present. That should have been conversations with us.

Like what? For example, when my bridesmaids and my mom and I went to try on wedding dresses, the first moment that I went to go try on the first dress, my mom goes to my best friend that she's, I've, she's been my best friend since childhood and my mom has known her since then too. And the first question she asked is like, do you know what the rush is? Are they pregnant? Or do you think she could be pregnant? And I'm not.

How many of you guys been engaged? Since Christmas. So it is a quick turnaround. Why? Why so quick? We were just ready to be married. I didn't see the reason for waiting. I plan events for work, like very often.

So like the idea of planning, we wanted something small and intimate. We're having 50 people. So I was like 50 people. I can do that in three to four months. So I did. We got a good deal on an off season. Yeah, thank you. I got a good deal on an off season venue.

So I just went for it. And yeah, we're just excited to be married. We were already living like we're married. We bought a house together. There was really no reason. Did you even have a, like what do you? you talk with your parents about? Because like, listen, if you're my sister, you're my friend, and you got engaged in December, and then you sent me a wedding invitation for like April,

I would have been like, yo, what's the rush? And you would have been like, you would have said exactly what you just said to me, which sounds lovely. And it sounds like endearing. And it's like, oh my God, she's a party planner. And she got a, you know, it's just like, but like, I would have asked the question. And I'm just wondering when and what do you talk to your family of about because this seems like a normal conversation to have with people who are close to you, even if that conversation starts off with a little bit of questioning or maybe even judgey, you know, like. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And that's why I was so confused that this happened and like hushed tones away from me because I actually have had this exact conversation with

my fiance's mom and brother and sister-in-law and friends and everybody. Like I would like jokingly say just so you know, I'm not pregnant. This is not a shotgun wedding. This is why. And exactly what I just told you is what I've told everybody. And it was never like, never brought up. How long have you guys been dating? A little over two years.

Okay. So I'll know. Yeah. How old is he? My age 28. Okay. One additional factor. I do have a four-year-old son.

Okay. I was a single mom when I met my fiance and he is the only father figure that my son has ever known. He was like young enough at that stage where he doesn't remember anything different to like not have him in the picture. So I know I wonder if that's playing a role in it. Like not only are they protective of me in my heart, but they're also protective of their grandson. son, but he, my fiancee has done nothing but be a shining example of a father figure. He has been so great to me and go so great to my son. What was your situation like before your fiance showed up in your life? So my ex was abusive, very like in all the ways. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I guess after your ex was out of the picture, when you were a single mom, what did that look like? And specifically, what role were your parents involved? Right. So after I got out of that situation, my son was less than a year old. I did move in with my parents for a while, probably about nine months. And obviously, well, my dad did step into the father role for my son because the other guy was out of the picture. And my brother as well, he's a couple years younger than me. And I think they really took that on.

And then after those nine months, I moved into my own apartment. It was like five minutes down the road from them still, though. And then shortly after is when I met my fiancé. Okay. I mean, maybe it's just that, you know, in the sense that, like, you know, your family cares about you to love you, or maybe they're protective. I'm assuming your parents knew about your ex and how in his ways? They didn't know until I came clean to everybody.

Okay. But they know now. They know now. Yeah. They know the full extent. They knew before you met your boyfriend or your fiancé. Yes. But they didn't know when it was going on. You hit it from them. Right. Yeah. So, which is totally under the amount. I mean, I get it. But if we're looking for ways of why maybe your family isn't showing up for you the way you had hoped and expected without just assuming. like, well, they just hate them or they don't like them or we're not as close as I thought. And maybe it's just coming from a little place of like, last one wasn't great.

We didn't know. Maybe we thought it was better than it was. And here you are, like, planning a very quick wedding. Again, it's just you don't hear about five, four month weddings these days. You know, it feels rushed, you know. So what's the why there? So I imagine on some level, you having a baby and you escaping from a really bad situation. and your parents coming into the rescue, so to speak, in some ways, was a traumatic experience

for everyone involved, including you, but including your parents, and they don't want to see that happen again. And so they're probably not super, like, welcoming with open arms. I wouldn't be. No, obviously, you guys are getting married this weekend. I imagine your parents are on board and overall are happy for you. It's just maybe hard for them to kind of get out of this kind of frame of mind of just like not being fully all in. There may be mentally prepare for themselves for like things going south for you again. You had to move in with him. You know, like you, they kind of, they had to come to the rescue for you a little bit. This is all to say. Like, I think, you know, your solution is just like you, you're going to have to talk to them more, you know, you,

when I'm hearing from you, correct me if I'm wrong, is your fiance, like he said, his family's been great. You've really enjoyed it. You know, they've been welcoming, they've been fun, they're inclusive. And then compared to your family, which when you went in with the same expectations, they're guarded. They're not asking you guys to come over for hangouts. They're guarded. They're keeping their distance a little bit. And for you, that feels like they're not accepting of you or certainly your fiance. And now you're paying attention to every little comment or action that they do or don't do. And then you are deciding what it means and you are responding to it. But you're not asking for clarification. You're not sitting him down. You're not just talking with

them. And you haven't really have any meaningful talks with him. You know, and I was like, well, why didn't you say that? And you're like, I did. And I was like, oh. And then you're like with his family. And I'm like, oh, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're not having this. conversation with your family. And you're right. Maybe they won't totally, but like you're being a little cagey, I bet with them because you're not like, it's like you're waiting for them for doing to do something. And as a result, you're kind of acting cagey. And they're probably interpreting that as why are you acting cagey? Like, you know, like they're just reading the tea leaves. And again, like not too long ago, they had to save their daughter from a bad situation that involved a strange man.

that at first he were like, you should like this guy. Yeah. And the thing is they didn't ask, though. Like, and the, like, I wish they would, everybody else asked me. Like, oh, what's the rush? They had never asked. And then when it comes. No one else had to come in and rescue you in that time of need.

And no one else experienced that traumatic experience with you a couple years ago. everyone else is just a fan you know a friend your fiance's family they don't they don't they didn't know you they didn't know anything about you i don't know many of them probably have no idea what your ex was like you know um nor do they need to know but you know what i'm saying like they are they're there just to be happy for you you know they're just like yeah there's a wedding fuck yeah you know is it an open bar amazing you're you know your parents they just want you to be a safe and happy and and and all all these things and they're just a little cautious, you know, less than three years ago, like their daughter was in an abusive relationship that you hid from them for a period of time.

And then you're like, hey, guys, I got to tell you something. It's been bad. He sucks. I need to get out. Help me. They, well, you know what I'm saying? So, like, you know, you are waiting on your parents to make the first move. And when they don't do something you don't like or, you know, you are, you know, you're

You're about to get married. You're a mom. And you are still kind of playing the role of little girl with mom and dad. Yeah, yeah. And I will say it's not that their expectations of seeing us has changed. Like one problem that we do have is like they do want us around like often, a lot. But when we go over there, it's so it's like pulling teeth trying to make conversation. Or they'll scatter.

Like we'll go to their house and we're all hanging out in the living room. And then all of a sudden it's just the three of us, like us and our son just sitting in the living room and everyone else is doing off doing their own thing. So I have. I do have so much empathy. And I was kind of hoping that wasn't the answer. Like I think I knew deep down that was the answer that they were being guarded for a reason because of like past things. But yeah, it's just hard to with the empathy that I have for them. I have tried.

Like I try to show up and I try to be involved in all of the things. But it's hard to be involved when you're just like met with like a brick wall. Like I don't even have the same relationship with them that I used to have. Me and my dad could talk on the phone for hours like just a couple of years ago about nothing. And now same thing even when my fiance is not around. like the conversations are just not the same. Yeah, but are you also different? I mean, I'm just curious what your parents would say.

Yeah, I am too. And like I said, I did try to bring up the not feeling as connected. I have had a conversation with my dad. And he kind of denied the whole thing in a way. He did tell me that I was starting drama and he doesn't like drama. I don't know if that's non-confrontational. maybe he was valid in saying that because we have never had that kind of. How did you approach that conversation?

Well, I had told them we weren't feeling as connected. And when I said earlier, there were discussions about us. You said we, is in you and your husband or your fiancee? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can see why he felt like that was drama. You got to just like the reason I say that is because again, and again, it's, I understand your point of view. And certainly I bet your parents, from your perspective,

and it's, I understand why it feels this way. Like, they could have done more to be more welcoming of your fiance and your relationship. And that, and that hurts a little bit, especially when you've experienced the opposite with his family. I get it. That being said, you know, whatever, you know, they are slower to assimilate with you in your fiance. Doesn't mean they hate them. they certainly haven't like they invite them over you know i understand they're not super chatty about it but before you've had a come you've never really had a conversation with your parents about this and the first time you had a conversation with your parents about this you use the word we and that included you and your fiance and i think this is a a conversation you need to have

between you and your parents that doesn't include them right because and i'm just coming from a place of like, yeah, like if one of my siblings came to me with a criticism about how I showed up for them, and we never had that conversation. And then that conversation started with we, and that is, we is like me and their partner. It would feel like, did your partner tell you to have this conversation with me? Like, this feels dramatic, you know, like, I've never had this conversation. Now I'm having this conversation with you, and you're saying we. Doesn't mean like, you're right. I would just like, because keep in mind, this conversation is starting with an accusation, which is I don't feel as connected and it's kind of your, and I kind of think it's your fault.

And like that's kind of how they're going to receive it, right? I feel like it might be more productive. And maybe this would be a great time because your wedding is this week of maybe you taking your parents out to dinner or a coffee or whatever. And you, not with your fiance, just saying, hey, first of all, I don't know, maybe you have. So whether you have or you haven't, you're just like, I just want to thank you again, or I just want to thank you, which one, for always being for there for me, especially a couple years ago when things were pretty bad. And I know that probably wasn't easy for you, and I imagine it was really scary to see me in a place that wasn't so great. You guys really showed up for me, and I love you, and I'll always be super grateful for it. And because of what you did for me, you allowed me to be in a good space to meet Matt. whatever, you know, and that didn't end well, but I really, he's a great guy. I'm really happy and he's been great to our, you know, my son and I'm really excited to spend more time with you

guys. But like, I think you just, I'm okay. I'm in a really great spot and I'm really happy. And I just want to thank you for helping me get to where I am today because I wouldn't be here without you or some version of that. And I think that will go a long way with mom and dad. And then, you know, in the future or whatever, I don't even wouldn't even do this now, you could just say, without just me being so heavy, you don't have to be like, we feel disconnected. You could be like, dad, could you try to just, I, it's just coming from me, it's not coming from him, because I think he wants to have a closer relationship with you. Like, you know, when you start it like that, it's like, then it's like, yeah, I guess I'd probably been a little standoffish, you know, like, if it's just like, hey, he doesn't, I don't think he thinks he like him. Then it's just like, yeah, but like you need to do better because we feel disconnected. Your dad's probably like connected. When were we ever connected? How can we get disconnected? I've never been connected to this guy, you know? Like, he's not my boyfriend. You know, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I totally get it. I don't know if I want to have

the conversation before the wedding. Like I said, it feels like I know. You don't want to thank you. your parents for stepping up and being there for you? I have written into my thank you speech, something along those lines, but not like alludes. This is not something you, this is not something you proclaim to 50 people. This is a private conversation that you express gratitude to your parents for you're about to get married. And if, you know, if your parents didn't step, step up and be there for you, who knows, you wouldn't, who knows where you would be, you know?

you might not have been in a place to go on a date with this guy. Your parents helping you and being there for you and not making you feel like you are alone and on an island by yourself with like a one-year-old or whatever allowed you to heal and be okay and get back out there and date and like you don't want to thank them for that? I do. I do. Just in three days seems like a lot.

This is like a five-minute conversation. I don't think you have to like, this is not like, you don't have to make this such a thing. You could do it this afternoon. You could stop by their house and say, hey, guys. Yeah. Well, one like wrench in that is we did move like an hour away. So they're also like adjusting to that. And there's been feelings about that as well.

And you moved an hour away and they're frustrated that you move further away. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at least they care. Yeah. Yeah. And they definitely do. You have to, I mean, listen, I don't, I'm not sure why, why this suggestion is, is so scary or

difficult for you. I'm just, no, I genuinely, I think I could have the conversation. The conversation doesn't scare me. Yeah, I suppose so with, with both of them, like, set up like a three-way call. Do they not live together? I mean, they do, they do. Speaker phone, FaceTime. Yeah.

I suppose so. It's just the logistics. What logistics? Daycare pickup being at 5 o'clock, bedtime being at 7 and being home with my fiance like that whole time. I and I'm not getting done with work until 5. I don't know. You are full of excuses. Like I don't know. What you described is a typical Wednesday night. I don't know. Yeah. When does that phone call happen on a typical Wednesday night? literally at any point. Like, again, this doesn't have to be some emotionally charged conversation.

I hope that your parents are like, oh, that was really sweet. And that means a lot. And thank you. And we're really excited for this weekend. But this can happen at 530 or 6 or 630. You can tell you're very supportive and lovely fiancé and seem to be a husband. Hey, I'm going to, I just want to talk to, I just want to call my mom and dad about this weekend and just thank him for everything we've done, you know, whatever.

You don't even have to tell him why. Just like, I'm going to take 15 minutes. Yeah. He's been like, great. I'll watch the kid. Awesome. And then, I don't know. Maybe, I don't know what time of your parents eat dinner.

Maybe right after dinner, you know, I don't know. Like literally anytime. You're right. And honestly, also could be this, you know, weekend when you guys, I don't know where the wedding is or when they show up or maybe, you know, but it does, you know, I just, it doesn't have to be before the wedding. I do think it would be, like, I think it would be, again, maybe there's something you know, don't, you know that I don't know that you're not. that you're not sharing, I don't know, but this doesn't seem like it needs to be that heavy. And it seems like, it sounds like you've never done this. And I think it would go a long way. And your parents care, you know, they didn't want you to move an hour away. And part of you

calling in was like, they don't like care about us. They're not engaged. Like how they, like this is this communication. You know, you clearly, no offense, are not the best communicator, you know, like, you described a Wednesday night. Like, it's like, like, I was supposed to be like, yeah, that's crazy. I don't know how you're going to make this call. I don't know. What are you going to do between five and seven? Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's just the wedding planning brain thinking about it. I don't know if that's it. I think you just avoid confrontation a little bit. This is not even confrontation. I don't know.

Right. If I were you, I would explore why this is a challenge for you to have this conversation with your parents. Because whatever disconnect you feel with mom and dad, certainly I'm sure they're playing a role. but like because it is so hard for you to have what should be a relatively simple, maybe emotional, but simple conversation that I wouldn't think would turn into any type of confrontation, you are reluctant to do it. And you've been reluctant to like have a conversation with your parents about this. And the only time you brought it up, you were just like, we, me and him, feel a certain

way about you too, you know? And it's like that, you know, that's a little confrontation. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it necessarily came across that way to my, like, I can't remember quite exactly if like the initial accusation, if you want to call it that was like we or I. But like he put it out there that he's like, I know that anything coming from you from this point forward is something that you and him have talked about. Like he's very aware that like any feelings I've had like I have talked about with my partner. So yeah.

Maybe. But I do think you saying, hey, mom and dad, just want to thank you for everything you've done for me. Yeah. No, I can totally do that. Like I'm not worried about the conversation at all. I think I could do it. Are you going to do it? Yeah.

Yeah. No, I think I will. I will. I'm just thinking. Unless you think this is really bad advice I'm giving you and there's something, I don't, you know, I don't, like, maybe, maybe I'm wrong, you know. No, I think it's great advice. And I think I had, like, considered this as a whole reason from the jump. Like I said, I was just kind of hoping that it, it wasn't. Why? Why? I don't know. I think I still hold a little bit of resentment for that time of, well, just like in the comparison.

I just think back to with my ex, like, how welcoming they were. Like, we were, like, one big happy family. And they had no idea what was going on. Yeah. And I know this only supports what you're saying is, like, they were super welcoming back then. And that crashed and burned and it was a bad situation. But I think when I just compare the two, I'm like, this, my fiancé is perfect. Like he's amazing.

Like he has been so supportive and just like such a blessing to us. And he just gets the shit end of the stick because of the X situation. I just like when I compare the two, I wish it was different, but I understand why it's not. Like I understand why they're. But it can be different. You know, it's not different right now. But like, you just have to do something about it. You just have to identify the problem.

I think we've identified the problem. Yeah. And now you have to figure out a solution. And that solution is to communicate with mom and dad and just empathize with their point of view, give them a little grace. But again, I think that, and that's why I don't think this conversation starts with, like, you two. This is not about him right now.

This is about like almost closing. You're starting this new chapter. You're getting married. And closing this chapter. with your mom and dad, with this thing they went through with you, and acknowledge, because it doesn't think you have yet, to really thank them for sure. And I get, you know, and listen, you were going through a lot then.

You know, you were in survival mode. Your parents did what you expect them to do, which is be there for you. But I do think it would go a long way just to acknowledge that to them and express that appreciation. Because there could be an element of like, you know, we were there for her, we helped her up,

And then the first chance she got, she ran off with the new guy. And he's just like, again, as far as their concern, he certainly was some strange guy. And again, yeah, it just makes sense they might be a little guarded, you know. And that's not their fault. It's not your fault. It just is the situation. But you're getting married to the guy. You're going to be with him for a long time.

You know, you guys have time for him, your family get to get to know them. It doesn't sound like they're mean girls. They're just like not sure if they're just, they're just not sure. And they may not know why they're not sure. And yeah. And the fact that your dad, because he said something, he assumes that, like, they're probably waiting, you know, this very much gives, like, I was going to say, I was going to bring this up a few minutes ago.

But this is like, you know, when family members is like, we should hang out more. It's like, well, call me. Well, you, phone works both ways. You know, like, okay. Well, then no one, you know, it's just like, you want things to change. Maybe your parents are the same way. But like maybe your mom could be like talking to therapy. I wish I was close with my daughter.

And you know, sounding just like you and coming up with all the reasons why she can't have a conversation with you. And like someone's just got to just talk. And I do feel like that will be like a nice way to close that chapter in a way that like lets them know you're okay. You appreciate what they've done. You know, what you went through is obviously traumatic. And again, you were in survival mode. And I think sometimes when people are watching people they love in survival mode, They just want to make sure that they like are kind of like they know to take a pause and like look at their situation and make good decisions because a lot of people make, well, you know, once they're in that kind of survival mode and make one bad decision after another because they're making decisions in this place of scarcity where, you know, it's just you make smarter decisions when you don't need anything, you know, as opposed to when you like, I don't want to make this decision now, but I kind of have to make this decision now because I don't, you know what I'm saying? Like and so I think, Barrens, you just want to see you make a good.

decisions. And I just think you coming to them like this in this mature way will come across in a way that's maybe hits different than how you've communicated to them in the past. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think it'll be received well. And we have never really talked about the situation and like how it has affected them like up until now. And you don't even have to like, you know, if they want to tell you that you can listen. But all you have to do is thank them. Yeah. You just got to express some gratitude and let them know you're okay. And express that gratitude on the eve of your wedding that you've been reflecting.

And you just, if you haven't already, you just want to let them know that everything they've done and everything they continue to means a lot. And I'm really happy now. And I'm really grateful that I had you guys because I wouldn't be here today in this place if it weren't for your help. And I just want you to know, mom and dad, I'm okay. I wasn't before. I am. And if you can say that with confidence, knowing that, like, this, you were used to be a person not too long ago who had to, like, tell them the secret that they didn't realize that you weren't okay for a while. And I think that will be a nice little conversation. And I think you'll be glad that you have it. Yeah. Yeah. You've convinced me. Like, I think it's a conversation that needs to be had. All right. Let me know how that goes. Okay. I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm confident it'll be fine, you know, unless you're not telling me something.

But yeah, I just, that was a traumatic experience. I don't even know if you're fully through it, you know, like, have you got any therapy? Yeah, I was in a lot of therapy. Did a lot of, like, EMDR. Okay, good. And my therapist has graduated me, like, in her words. Have you talked to this stuff with your therapist? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't go anymore. But yeah, we talked about it some. I don't know if we came to any conclusions like this, but it was still early on when we were back, like, still meeting. So I guess like one thing and like maybe I was just trying to come up with a different reason why this was happening. I feel like my parents have thoughts or I know my parents have thoughts about where we move to. Okay. We were originally, like I grew up in a small town, but it was like 15 minutes away from like.

the bigger city, kind of bigger city. And then where we moved and where my fiancee grew up and all of his family is is like an hour away from there. And it's like a little bit more rural. And I guess I've just always gotten the sense that they think we moved to like a hillbilly town. And like they have thoughts about him and his family and all of that. Maybe I don't, you know, you're just guessing. You know, you're just like, I don't know, talk to your parents. Like this sense. That is the solution. I'm sure, like, no parent is like, you know,

no parent or grandparent is going to be excited about the people they love moving further away, but you only moved an hour away. It's not the end of the world. It is a minor inconvenience. But like this disconnection you feel is a product of you just like avoiding just conversations with your parents. And I'm sure they have a role to play in this too.

But again, I think back when I said, like, I think when it comes to your parents, you still show up as their young daughter, their girl, you know, and I think, you know, you are 28. You are like this, now your relationship with your parents is an adult to adult relationship. It is not like an adult to a child, but you are still expecting your parents to do kind of everything when it comes to the relationship you have with your parents. And, you know, obviously you have the right to move and you're going to move and do what's best for your family. your family, I mean, you found saying your kid. But you're expecting your parents to just accept

that, you know, be happy for you. And that makes a lot of sense. But you're also expecting your parents to like have the conversation with you and communicate to you what their frustrations are or, you know, like you're expecting them to kind of do everything. And you have to show up in this relationship and set, you know, and talk and communicate. And when you are feeling these things, you have to try to find the words. And I understand. you tried once and it didn't go well, but I just think you're relying too much on your parents to be the reason why everything's okay between you and your, and your fiancé. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I was necessarily expecting them to like fix this with a conversation because I have no expectations of them

to have difficult conversations. I guess we just don't. Like as a family, everything has been hunky dory for 28 years. That's fair, but you're not doing the thing. Well, you know, I'm half the equation. And I am an adult and I want this to change. So how about I do something about it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot more productive than being like, well, I think my parents think I'm, you know,

like you're assuming their intentions. Yeah. And you're creating narratives in your head. And all this can be solved with just talking with mom and dad. And I do think it starts by just thanking them for what they've done. Because I feel like from their perspective, it might feel like, we were there for you and then she things got better and then she met a guy and then we were just out of the picture yeah think i can definitely do the thank you and the other point you made about

maybe later on down the line just talking to my dad about how my fiance i think he would like to have a closer relationship with you i think that will hit yeah and that can happen over time you know like i don't think that they need to be they don't need to be best friends by Saturday. He's going to be your husband, you know, but I think right now your parents, you just need to get on the same with him as your parents and they need to know that you're okay. Because I don't think your mom's trying to be a mean girl or like start drama when they're like, hey, is everything, you know, honestly, she probably is just like in some ways, maybe checking in, you know, probably knowing everything's fine. But, you know, like again, like you, you dropped a bomb on them not too

long ago. Yeah. Yeah. I forget how recent that really was in the grand scheme of things. So it feels like I've lived like a whole new life. No doubt. But for them, yeah. Let them know you're okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I can do that. All right. Well, thanks for the call. Let us know how that conversation goes. I'd really love to know. And congrats on the wedding and I have fun this weekend. Thank you so much. Thank you.

I'm such a fan. I get the top 1% Spotify video from you and Natalie. I love it. I watch everything. We appreciate you listening. And we're congratulations on the wedding and talk to your parents. We'll do. Thank you so much.

All right. Take care. All right, bye back. What's up, everybody? Don't forget that all Vile Files Plus content is ad-free. Plus, for all you asked, Nick listeners out there,

your update specials are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow-up calls. What has happened to these people if they heard my advice? It had help them? Did it hurt them? Has their life changed? Well, you can find out. out on Update Plus, and you can get Update Plus behind Viowfiles Plus.

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female friends? Okay. Why are you asking? I have a bunch of guy friends, probably. And I've known a lot of them for like eight years, some of them four years. And I've never thought much of it that they wanted to do anything else until I met this guy on Tinder. And he kind of told me this theory that guys always secretly want to hook up or date their female friends. And guys will not have friends that are girls unless they're attractive.

And that, have you met this random person on Tinder who told you this? No, no. It didn't work out from there. He pretty much asked me, like, what my red flags were. I think to other guys at the red flag that I'm benched with, like, a friend, a bunch of guys and my ex. So he was like, either you drop them or this isn't going to work out. And I didn't. So how did it, so you were just like, it came up in conversation with this guy you met in two or that who you hang out with.

And you mentioned that you have a lot of guy friends and one of those people is your ex? Yeah, he actually, like, explicitly asked, like, are you friends with guys? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, how close are you? And, like, we're all in a group chat. We talk daily. We hang out every weekend. We all FaceTime.

Like, do you have girlfriends? Not anymore. No. Why not? Why do you not anymore? I think we're all just young. I mean, we're all in, like, our early to mid-20s and all different, like, passive lives. And three of them had girlfriends, and they all kind of broke up around the same time.

No, no, but like, no, your, your girlfriends. Like, you have a lot of guy friends. but do you have friends that are women as well? Yeah, there's a few of them in the group that are single as well, and then all my other friends that are girls just don't live near me, so I don't get to see them all the time. Gotcha, okay. And ever since you had this chat with this guy,

it's got in your head? Yeah, it definitely has. And me, my friend in the group, who's a girl, we constantly debate this because she thinks she agrees, you know. With Mr. Tinder. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm thinking maybe I'm being a little naive to think, you know, after nine years, they don't want to do anything. Have there been awkward moments or?

I don't think so. But I also don't see the harm. And if they did want to do something, if they didn't never voice that or acted on it, then. Well, there's that too. Yeah. It's not like because they're not like all predators because they're men who like, you know, who maybe are. accept the friendship for what it is and have decided not to make a move i agree i've also known them a long time so i think also some of them like are just into relationships maybe they don't

see me like that i don't see them like that so i don't really get what the big deal is but i kind of see how like outsiders looking in how it might be weird that i hang out with and so your big concern is like as you continue to date are other men going to take acceptance with the fact that you have a large group of friends that many of which are men, and one of them includes an ex-boyfriend. Like, how long ago was this guy your ex? We broke up about over two years ago when we only dated four months. We were friends for that, you know, those eight years.

It got a little messy, but, I mean, we're both mature enough now that we're like, hey, we're either in each other's lives as friends or not in each other's lives at all. It was never serious. So I think with that, it's very circumstantial. if we were living together and talking about the future, it would be a completely different story. But, like, we do say, like, still hang out a lot. We text a lot. But nothing ever flirting. And from my knowledge, he doesn't have any other feelings left over. And he knows where I stand with that. I'm always saying how, I love how we're just friends and we work out more as friends because we truly do.

Okay. So here's, I mean, is there any more tidbits or information you think I should know? I mean, it just adds to the lore. I don't know if it helps my case. But, like, he also dated my best friend. And now she's dating his friend. So we all kind of... Yeah. Your ex used to date your best friend.

Yeah. And now he's dating her friend. Now she's dating his friend. Okay. Like, my best friend and him dated, like, maybe, like, six years ago. Okay. And she's been dating his friend for, like, about two. Right.

Right. Right. And like, yeah. And to be clear, all of these guys that are in this group chat, you are, you get the relationship ick. Like, nice guys, you are friends, but you are, you don't. There's nothing there, right? To be clear. Yeah. Like, I know that sounds weird. Like, my best friend encouraged me to date her ex and dot, like, since we're great friends, we would work out and we were being a little flirty, like, at that time. But now I've realized, like, Maybe don't date people in the friend group because you won't always be lucky and be able to stay friends with everybody. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, we all hang out. We go away together, like, on trips all the time where we're just, like, kind of drinking. And it can get, like, a little crazy, but, like, we're all respectful of the other ones in a relationship. And, like, I know if I enter.

What's a little crazy look like? Pretty much just drinking for, like, 12 hours and, like, dancing with each other, playing, like, drinking games. They're just getting a little, you know. And do those drinking games? include like I guess here's the thing again like this is a debate as old as time you know mr. Tinder I don't it can't say that he's not he's not right or wrong it's very situational right now you don't have a boyfriend and I don't think you should stop being friends with people that are friends they bring value into your life they you seem to enjoy their company

you're 25 these are your friends right now that might change as your life changes and I think do have to at least be open to the idea that, yes, as you go on the dating apps or whoever, you know, if you meet a new guy that is not familiar with your friend group and you like him, it's going to be an adjustment for him to feel comfortable and welcomed in your friend group, specifically because it's with a lot of men. He might not be as like black and white as Mr. which is like, yo, like, it's weird for a stranger on an app to ask you to drop all your friends for him. Yeah.

That's weird. That's aggressive. It's just more like, you know, if I'm, you know, like, if I were out there dating and I met someone who, like, in this came up. Now, granted, he specifically asked the question. So, like, that's coming from a place of, he probably knew some girl who, you know, like, this, this has ended poorly for a lot. lot of people, right? The guy who meets a girl, he's just like, yeah, it's just my best friend. You know, he's cool. And it turns out it's, you know, when you have men and women of the

opposite sex who are heterosexual and they're all friends, there's always the chance that, like, something could happen. I don't know if you're watching Summer House and that all drama that's taking over the internet, but like, that's a friend group, you know, where they hang out and they drink and there's a lot of comfort and there's a lot of like, you know, now there's a guy named West kind of maybe dating a woman named Amanda, but Amanda used to be married to a guy named Kyle and like the, you know, and now we're going back and watching

and we're nitpicking like these interactions. And at first we're watching because, oh, they're just close. There's a comfort there. Like he's, there's just always a possibility a line could be crossed when if you and one of these guys were stranded on an island, I mean, eventually you'd hook up.

Yeah. You know, you're like, oh, well, you're here and I'm here and I'm into men and you're into women. and let's get naked, you know? Like, you could have sex. And it wouldn't be the same as if, like, you were stranded on an island with another woman or if he was stranded on an island with another guy.

Yeah, I don't think it's inevitable. Like, I think you can be close to a friend and... I don't think it's inevitable. I'm just saying, yeah, I'm using it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I doubt you're ever going to be stranded on an island with any of these people. No, yeah.

But my friend says it's inevitable if you get too close. I just, I think other circumstances play a role as well. I don't think it's inevitable in general. I think there's always the possibility, and you just never know how someone's feeling on the other side of that equation. Like, I can say with almost certain confidence that there's never going to be a situation

when one of my guy friends are going to be like, I'm in love with you. Or if they got really drunk, they would try to make out with me. And it almost certainly probably won't happen with your guy friends, but it's not the same. And over the course of history,

you know, there have been a lot of instances where it got weird. And I'm not saying it's going to happen with your friends. I'm just saying that is just a reality of men and women friendship dynamics. And you might be one of those people with a great group of friends where you are the exception to the rule. But it's still something that any new guy is going to be, he would see it as a red flag. And rightfully so. It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. but if you meet a guy

I also don't think it's you also I don't think it's reasonable or fair that you would have to drop all your friends for some random fucking guy but if you meet a guy you really like it just might be something that you eventually have to you're you know you'll have to feel it out you might some spend you know go on a couple dates

if it comes up you just be like yeah like so it's weird I have some guy friends you know you have to empathize with why it could be weird for any guy yeah yeah I definitely get that and I've met people that like we're okay with it. Just more often than not, when it comes up, they're not willing to do anything.

But I also think, like, obviously they don't. They're not willing to, like, take the relationship with me further. I mean, like, they won't even try. And, like, with the other Tinder guy, I kind of explain, like, if I get into a relationship, like, I know the bandries I would have to have and, like, we're to draw the lines in the sand. And, like, if we were to date, like, you would just have to trust that nothing would happen. And I also think like dropping people or blocking people in a relationship doesn't change the outcome.

Like if something was going to happen, it's going to happen if they're blocked or they're not or after. Yeah. Listen, it just comes down to, yeah, again, there's so many variables with this, right? Yeah. You know, if you were like, if you're saying, hey, listen, like, you're just going to have to trust me. It's like, okay, well, what do I have to trust you with? Are you, like, going out to lunch with some of these guys on a regular basis? Like, what kind of quality time are you spending with these?

people, you know, if you become boyfriend and girlfriend, you know, I've used this analogy, too. Like, you know, before I met Natalie, I was very single and very independent, and I kind of did what I want. And I have a lot of women friends. Some of the couple, you know, I had become, I became friends with women who we dated very briefly hooked up and then just realized that we were better friends and then like time had passed, you know, very, and I was very protective of my platonic relationships with women. And by, protective, I mean like not considering like potential dates. I just like I made sure that I had the appropriate boundaries. I valued these friendships and I never wanted it to get weird and I just

never wanted to cross a boundary. But as soon as I met Natalie, all of those relationships changed. I was definitely less available. I wasn't grabbing coffee with them or dinner. I wouldn't go to the movies with them. And I would before. I was single. I was available and they were my friends and you, you know, and that had to change. So, you know, if you meet a guy and, and you really like him, it might happen organically. But yeah, he might have every right to be like, I'm glad you're friends with them, but like, I'm just like not comfortable. Like, he's like, you know, let's say he's got, you know, he's poker night with the guys. And you're like, oh, cool, I'm just going to go hang out with six other dudes. That might be a little unnerving for them, especially if, you know,

it's going to be, as I always say this, like, it'll be, like, do you think you think you your male friends care enough about you where they would go out of their way to make sure they make some new guy feel welcomed in your group so that this person doesn't feel threatened by them or just gets to know them. Would they go out? Would they take the initiative? I think most of them would, yeah. Well, that matters, you know? Because like, again, like, you know, it's just like, you know, if I have a woman friend, it's like that woman friend has to make my girlfriend feel welcomed. It's her job. It's like, yeah, I definitely agree with the boundaries. Like, I want to be doing what I would be doing now if I was in a relationship, of course,

and understand that would have to change. Yeah. If your guy friends are like, I don't know, like, he's some guy, I don't know, maybe she'll fall in love with him. Maybe she won't. It's not my job. Like, but like I, it's, it'll make it more difficult, you know, because it's there, it's their group, you know, it's, it's hard to enter any, any new group. He's going to be wondering why he has to make five new guy friends just to date a woman. And that's definitely different. So, like, I guess what I'm saying is you just have to acknowledge that it's different. I don't think Mr. Tinder's right, but I think Mr. Tinder's not totally wrong, where you just,

I think for you to pretend it's not different or that you wouldn't have to move differently or, you know, be very, like, aware of how he might be perceive it. I think you would be making a mistake. If you were to be like, I don't know what the big deal is. You just have to trust me. And like if all you do is to expect these new guys to trust you, I think it's not, you know, you have to do more than that. I think you have to show them why it's not weird.

I think these guy friends would have to go out of their way to like be friends with this guy. And if they can do that, then I think there's a lane for any new guy you meet to become friends with these guys. Yeah, I definitely get how, like how it looks and why, you know, people might not come to me like when we're out together or things like that or like it's also like how soon do I bring this up or they're not like running away I but like I do understand they would have to I would have to prove my trust to them and like be like here are the boundaries that I've drawn and here's I don't think this is like a first or second date thing I don't know eventually you know I don't know I don't it

it depends I don't remember on a first date ever being like so who are your friends yeah you know But yeah, I don't, I don't think it has to be some heavy conversation, but you may like, listen, I do have a lot of guy friends and I, it's been, you know, but if I were in the, the shoes of these men, it's really just, again, there's so many variables. It really just depends. You know, my response was like, do I need to worry about it? I wouldn't think so. Well, it really all depends how you move, right? It really, it all depends on how you move. I think I move differently single than I would if I was. like actively talking to someone I liked, you know, but they were like, oh, are you a flirty person? And yeah, but obviously I've ever teased I would never cross the line. Subconsciously, yeah. That's a problem. You know. I think we all know it's just like our banter, you know.

Yeah, but these other guys won't know that, right? And I think that's a lot to ask some guy to trust that like, hey, it's cool that I, would you, you made a guy and he's got seven girlfriends? friends and they're in these guys are they quasi-modo or are they all like decent-looking guys that you just happen to be friends with they're decent-looking yeah okay so like imagine if some guy you met had like five decent-looking women friends and he's like oh yeah we're just friends which again is totally possible yeah you know I like to think that my friends were also great people and beautiful women that I just wasn't you know into but if I just was like yeah I

flirt with them sometimes you know we're friendly we're flirty that That's a whole different, yeah, I don't, that's a challenge. I definitely wouldn't do that if I was, like, actively talking to someone. I think we've all just been single a long time that is just kind of our banter. But, like, obviously I'd want a potential new boyfriend to be friends with my guy friends. And, like, that way, like, I wouldn't cut them off, but I know I couldn't be doing certain things. But, like, I still want to do fun things with them. Like, we'll go camping, we'll go quadding.

You know, we go on snowboarding trips. I would still want to do that. Without your boyfriend? Oh, either or, I guess. I mean, I guess maybe it wouldn't be appropriate without him, but I feel like if he couldn't come or whatever the case might be and I still wanted to go. I don't know, I guess that's circumstantial too, like how long, yeah.

Listen, it's one thing for, I think it's weird, for a stranger on Tinder demand, you get rid of your friend group. But I think you going on vacation with a bunch of guys. regardless if they're your friends. And your boyfriend can't go because he can't get off of work. There's girls there too.

It's a lot. It doesn't matter. It's a lot to ask. It's just a lot to ask. And I'm not saying you can't find it, but it does. It's a lot to ask. And it will really be up to you. Like I think the biggest thing is if you approach it, like, hey, I understand it's a little

weird, but hey, get on board because these are my guy friends versus. is listen, I know this is really weird, and I really like you. And to the point where, like, I really, I want to make this a priority and I see a future with you. And yes, I have some guy friends, but I really want you to feel, like,

you know, because listen, if eventually, do you, what are your, like, do you want to get married someday? Do you, what are your relationship? You do, okay, right? So, like, eventually, if you marry someone who's not in this friend group, like, you're not,

you're not going to be going on snowboarding trips with them very often, if at all. Life will slow down, you know, especially if you want to start a family. Then I just think, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think you just have to acknowledge that a little bit. I agree. And so I would be careful to be protective

over what your life looks. Like right now, like you said, you're single. You can do whatever the fuck you want. Exactly. You know, and when I was single, I did whatever the fuck I want. And that's the benefit of being single. This is why when everyone's out there, like, I wish I could find someone and be like, well, you know, I get it. But like, enjoy what you have now because there is a shit ton of freedom and being single. Part of being in a relationship is there's less freedom and you have to make compromises and sacrifices. And I would just be careful about how much you want to fight for maintaining the status quo with these guy friends. That's all I'm saying. I've recently acknowledged that. And I think I'm just trying to take advantage of like,

everything fun that we're doing now and how my relationships are now. And I've realized, and I've talked to Max about it, like, we realize, like, this isn't going to last forever once he finds someone or I find someone, or even my other guy friends, like they draw the line real quick. The second they start talking to someone where they don't have to tell me, I can just tell because of the way they're acting. And I respect that, you know, I will never cross that line or I'll make sure their girlfriends feel welcome in a big group of people as well, you know. So that's the thing. I think, you just have to go with the flow and you have to just every like you everyone's different you know all these people in this group are all going to meet different types of people with different expectations

but like the big thing is is you just acknowledging that this this this group of friends and this season of life is is almost it is temporary and you kind of want it to be temporary because you know your relationship goals are one that you want to meet someone and start a family and like you know other people are like i don't know i i want i want i want to i want to go to burning man with these people until I'm 50, you know? Like, there are people like that. It's fine, but that's not you. But right now, you're really enjoying your friends,

and it's a lot of fun. So enjoy your friends. And then you might meet a guy who is open to the possibility, but any guy who wants to, like, start a family, like is going to want to feel like he doesn't have to compete with your male friends for attention, for affection, for,

just feel close. Like, you are friends with these guys. So you have a closeness. There's a comfort. At first, like, he, a new guy's not going to have that. And so seeing you being comfortable and intimate, not like intimate sexually, but just like being comfortable with someone is a level of intimacy. And I would just be very mindful of how comfortable you sound and act around these dudes when you're trying to get to know

another guy. And I would be careful about how quickly you try to. And that's something when you're how quickly do I bring it up. I wouldn't really bring it up because the more you bring it up, the more you make it seem like a thing. If it's to the point we're like, oh, I want to meet your friends, but like, I do have a lot of guy friends and like, you know, I've been, you know, and it's more like, I've been single for a while and we have a great group of friends. They include guys, but like, you know, a lot of them people are single. But don't worry. Like, I'm not expecting you to deal with that. Like, I don't, I, you know, but like, all I know is like, I like, I like you. And, you know, these are my platonic friends. And like, it's just more like, I think it's a case

by case. Like, the more you make it a thing, the more it's a thing. If that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I definitely get how it could be like, like, a little hypocritical where it's like, don't worry, these are just my friends. I just dated one of them. It's not hypocritical. It's just, again, it's, it just really comes down to, I think you have to be open to things changing for the right guy. Yeah, I agree. I think best case scenario, they can all be friends. They might be into the same things and hang out without me. But yeah, I think that's really good advice of like watching how I act and how comfortable I am with them if I introduce someone new, because I think that's just something that would happen, like, subconsciously.

And I know someone knew I bring in wants to feel like they're needed or they're the protector instead of my guy friends. But I also think I've never been in that situation. Like the last relationship before my ex and a friend group was like long distance. So I didn't really have to worry about bringing anyone new in and everyone else adjusting. No, I mean, you're only 25. So. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, again, I think, was this helpful? No, it was, yeah. My friends and I just, like, constantly debate this. She's in the friend group, too. She's like someone's sister. So she's like, no one would ever try anything with me because they're all friends with my brother as well. So I think she thinks it's circumstantial.

Well, if you're only going out with the boys, yes, most people are just going to assume, it's going to take a guy with a lot of swag to walk into that group and steal you away. Oh, that's never happened. I don't blame them. I know how it looks about the app. So, but if you meet a guy on the apps and he's just not, you know, don't make it a thing. If you make it a thing, it becomes a thing. Yeah.

But, and then for the right guy, you just have to be quick to, when you meet the, like, listen, if you meet a guy you're excited about, I don't think the first thing you should be figuring out is how to immerse themselves with guy friends. And if that is your big priority, then like, I don't know. I think the right guy, you're just going to be focused on him. When we fall in love or fall in lust, like, whether, girl, we have a, we have a, we have a tendency of like falling off the on the map and like our friends being like where'd you go and then you're like I'm in love you know like and that's not entirely healthy to be that drastic but men or women

there should be a level of like this is the person you want to spend most of your time with and you don't want anything to come in between that and so for the right guy it should be pretty easy and you will I'm assuming like when I met Natalie and and we start of dating, I was very protective of her. I was very protective of how she felt around my friends. And same way, you're going to want to feel protective. You're going to want to want this guy to not feel weird around your friends. You're not going to want him to feel this. And so you will want to move differently. And maybe that move differently is to not just be like, all right, on the third date, let me introduce you to a bunch of dudes. You know, you can be like, yeah, I have a lot

a guy friends, but like, yeah, I've been single. And yes, I'm friends with my ex because, like, listen, at the end of the day, we were friends, we did, you just downplay it and not because you're lying about it, but you just like, but again, like, you know, I hope you meet them someday. Um, you probably will if we keep dating. But like, I just, it's a lot of my relationship is based on the fact that I was single. I had no one to answer to. If we're in a relationship, I'm not saying I'm going to stop being friends with them, but it'll always be a conversation with you. And you're just going to have to see how they are, but it will, and you might find a guy, who you realize that Leah, maybe is a little too jealous and a little too insecure and it gets a little

extra weird. I've definitely been in that situation, like, when I was young, where, like, my friend, my boyfriend at the time felt, you know, jealous or insecure or whatever it may be because we're also very young. And subconsciously, like, I dropped my friends so I can be a good girlfriend and, like, hang out with, it wasn't like, oh, you need to drop them, but, like, oh, like, what are you doing? I'm worried about you. I want to spend all my time with you. And that was. I didn't have time for my other friends. And I never got those friends back. And I've also been dropped by one of the guys in the group because he had a girlfriend.

And all of a sudden, I just was blocked on everything. And I think that's also, like, affected me where it's like I wouldn't ever drop anyone because of a relationship, but I know where to draw the lines in the sand. Yeah. Well, no doubt that guy's girlfriend made him block her. Jealousy comes from insecurity. Either our partners make us feel insecure because they're flirting with a bunch of people and that feels weird.

or we just have some insecurities. Usually it's a combination of both. Now that you're older and more mature, hopefully you can have that balance. You can still get to know someone, make them feel prioritized, make them feel like they're the person you really want to invest.

Hey, I also have some friends, but there's going to be in a time and a place for that. But in the meantime, while you get to know a guy, I wouldn't be like, yeah, I'm grabbing dinner with Chuck. Don't worry, we're just friends. You can trust me. Yeah. Like, yeah, it might be a little weird.

Like, you probably can talk to them or whatever and, like, you know, but like, yeah, you might have to, like, they might have to wonder where you went for a period of time while you get to know a guy. I agree. Yeah, that would be definitely inappropriate. But that's, but that's not the same as blocking them and disappearing, you know, it just might be like, hey, she's, she met a guy and she's really excited about. She's been spending a lot of time with him lately, you know, so we'll see her soon, you know, type of thing. I think I've been friends with these people since I was like 17. So that plays a factor too. Like we've all seen each other like grow up a bit.

And if I met these people maybe like a year ago, I wouldn't be, it wouldn't be so hard for me to just be like, I don't know a big deal. I had a great group of friends in my 20s, you know, that I had known for a long time. And yeah, it's a fun time of your life, man. You know, it's just like honestly like you being your 20s and have a great group of friends to do things that now you have a little bit more money. independence, you know? Like, you can't do that at 16, you know? So like you guys to have these fun experiences and you're still like kind of yellowing and you really don't have anyone to take care of but yourself. It's a fun time, you know, so enjoy it, you know? And let this be like an exciting chapter in your life that you will always cherish because someday it's going to end.

It just most likely will. And if it doesn't, it kind of gets sad because like the 50-year-old did, you know, head burning man who are still keeping the party going because they just don't want to let, you know, like there are seasons that are life, they come and go. It's time for things to end. Yeah, exactly. But when it does, and when that, when that time comes, that time will come at, like, because things change. You meet someone, your guy friends meet someone, you just have to be willing to adapt and not try to hold on to the past. Yeah. That means. No, it's definitely helpful. Yeah. I do think a guy who is like, hey, do you have any. guy friends? No, probably not your guy because he probably has some baggage. He's a little closed

off and you're probably going to need someone a little bit more open-minded and a little more grounded and maybe a little bit more secure. But even the most secure people can be made to feel jealous if you make them feel jealous. Yeah, I mean, I definitely wouldn't mention like certain things coming in. Like, hey, by the way, we go on these trips and, you know, I'm a little everything. The biggest thing is just because something's normal for you doesn't make it normal for the masses. And when you try to normalize something that most people wouldn't see as normal, it feels kind of gaslighty and weird. And it feels like, so you just have to acknowledge that your situation is unique and it's subject to change. And it's not something you need to, you're trying to force.

But like, yeah, you met me at a time where I was really single and I had a lot of guy friends. and like, you know, if we get married, some of these guys might show a better wedding because they are my friends. But I'm not expecting you to be best friends with these guys. I'm not expecting you to be okay with me vacationing with these guys. That might be something you have to, you know. Okay, yeah.

Because, you know, that's weird. You know, this is. It's just, I'm not saying you do anything wrong, but it's definitely a unique, maybe unique is a better word. You know, it's unique, it's rare. it's not something the average guy is going to be like, awesome, cool. I'm super secure and like that doesn't bother me at all. When you ask someone to trust you, you are asking them to do something.

You know what I'm saying? Like I know sometimes we say, just trust me as if like it's a, like what's so hard. But sometimes you are, we are asking people a lot to trust them, right? So like don't ask someone too soon to trust you in a big way where you haven't built up that rapport or connection. you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So if early on you don't, you like a guy, you're excited, but you don't have a lot of

history with them or in familiarity, it would be a lot for you to be like, I need you to trust me to vacation with men. When you put it like that, yeah. So not that you ever can, maybe they might be friends with them, but like, that's, that's a lot to ask someone. Yeah. You know? And I think you should, yeah, and just recognize that goes on the way.

So, cool. Yeah, it's definitely, definitely helpful. We'll stop mentioning it, like, early on. I think, like, I don't want to waste my time. So I'm like, let me just throw it out there. Yeah, I think that's kind of, yeah, you should stop doing that. Because it seems like you're like, the single mom's out there, it says like, I have a kid, then that's not going to change. And no matter what happens between us, I have this kid who I will always love and will always be there. And I'm going to need you to accept that about me and work around it. And when you bring that up, like, on a first or second date, that's how it sounds.

Like, I got, I got five dudes you have to live with. You know, like, you're going to have to love them. I love them and you're, you know, it's like, it's like, I just met a girl and she just told me I have to be friends with the five dudes, you know, like, you know, you're, you're, 20 of them too. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's, whoa, you know, yeah, I don't think you bring it up like it's a thing. Okay. A lot of our friends of the opposite sex, whether you want to have sex with them or not, still play a role of like what a boyfriend or a girlfriend would ultimately do. You know, I imagine And sometimes when you're down bad, they're there for you to talk to and open up to it and be vulnerable with. Like, that's your boyfriend is going to want to be that guy.

And he's not going to want other men to be in that role. And by all means, if you want to have a girl chat about some girl stuff, pop off queen. But like, if you want to talk to a guy about your feelings, like, I'd like it to be me. Like, that's what your boyfriend's going to want. And rightfully so, you know, and you just- That's understandable, yeah. Yeah, so that's the big thing. Yeah, so do you think that guys and girls can just be friends about anything else happening?

Of course, yeah. But you always have to be mindful that that could always change. And you can't pretend that like, and you can't speak for other people. And by speak for other people, you can't be like, he would never. Like, you know that you would never. Yeah. But like you can't speak for other people. Things could happen.

They could, and not that they're in love with you. Maybe they get lonely. You know, maybe they're down bad. You know, when we are down bad and we feel lonely, we look from familiarity. Yes, you can be friends, and most of the time it's fine. But like, it's not, stop saying, you know, it's not the same as your girlfriends. And it's not the same as if you were friends with a gay man. It doesn't mean it's not, it doesn't mean it's not friendly.

And it doesn't, but it's just not the same. And I think just acknowledging that is okay. Yeah. But yes, I definitely think you can be friends. and I think these while you are single, these can be men that you trust, and these can be men that you go to for advice, and these could be men that you're friendly with or flirty with,

and vacation with, and go have fun. And just, if you meet the right guy, you just have to ask yourself, all right, what needs to change? And I wouldn't ask him to get comfort, you know, just like the timing. Yeah, you need to get to know him first. I definitely appreciate this.

This is definitely very helpful. Yeah, I try not to like speak more, guy friends, I always just say, like, if they don't voice it or act on it, then that's what it is right now, you know, even though... Like, listen, if I were a betting man, you said there's 20 guys here in this group? Like, yeah, I can't ever take. One of them would date you if you wanted to date them. I just like, like, maybe I just don't see that.

Like, you're not supposed to see that. You're not, because you're not interested in them and you're not thinking that way. And I'm not trying to get your head about it. I'm just saying. They would do something about it if they felt that way. Maybe. All of our personalities. Are you equally close with all of them?

No, definitely not. Okay, so maybe it's one of the people who are like outside looking in. I don't know. But yeah, it would be hard for, like if I, you know, like some guy you meet, you know, it's just like, really? All 20 of them? You can speak for all of them. You're like, are you that undesirable that no one wants to see you naked?

Yeah, I guess the other way. Yeah. You know, like. So, yeah, again. And again, but that's what I'm saying. It's like, don't be the person who's like, no, they're all amazing. And I'm like close with all of them. And I definitely, they're all turned off by me. It's like, don't go that hard to the paint where you're trying, you just sound like,

it sounds weird. I think also in my head, when you were like, oh, maybe one of them were wanted at you, I'm like, oh, well, they're also all friends with my ex. So I think given opportunities, a lot of them wouldn't jump on it. That's the thing. That could be the reason why they haven't made a move. I think it would be a different story. It's not even about dating you. It's more like, Like if you were drinking and you guys saying you guys drink as a friend and you made a move on another guy, I bet a lot of them wouldn't turn you down. Even if it was just for like a hookup. Yeah. And that's all you have to acknowledge and just be mindful of that.

And as long as you're not pretending, that's not the case, I think that will go a long way with. I think in these situations, men, you know, and just like as a woman, like you know women, right? So like when you and you know how women move in ways that like maybe guys don't appreciate. and you don't want if you met a guy who has like had a bunch of women friends and you were just like yo I know women and you like you may know these women but I but I know women and you're just like you don't sound like you know women you would call bullshit and you just want to know if a guy's friends with a woman that like he is being realistic about how women move and how how self-aware he is to like how women see him and how he you know what I'm saying and so like there's just a level of being

realistic and self-aware that any guy that you date is going to want to see from you. And the more you try to convince him that this situation is normal, the harder it will be. Because while it's normal for you, it's not normal for everybody. That's definitely helpful. Cool. I'll try to be more self-aware of like their reality of the friendships and not bringing up right away. Yeah, these 20 guys are not your kid. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Well, thanks for the call. I appreciate you. I really appreciate it. All right. Take care. Good luck out there. Thank you. All right.

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like that. And I don't know how I feel about it. And it's, of course, a lot more complicated than that. But at the base level, that's the issue for me. Yeah. Holly, you've been dating? Two years. Okay. How long is it, you know, I'm assuming it's been an issue. Like how did, like, when you first started dating, how did he like pitch this? So I guess it's one of those things where I just, I can tell. Like, I mean, maybe not everybody looks at who their partner is following. But I think

there's just like curiosity. And I think it's always been like a thing for him. And part of me here's his side where it's like, you know, that's part of the business and the industry. And, you You know, I'll ask him, like, how do you find these models or like, you know, like, are you searching for them or and a lot of times or he'll just say like, I'll see another photographer post them and I like their look. And so I'll follow them and see if, you know, or if they're in the area. I'll try to create a connection. And so he kind of poses it as a networking.

Yeah. And part of me does get that and I understand that. But at the same time, it also feels like. Like, it's a very specific person. Like, they're, they always have less than so many followers. There's just part of me that feels uncomfortable about it, I guess, you know, like for whatever reason. Like, maybe because they're all too similar or similar.

How? Like, they all look the same. They all look very similar. Blonde hair, big tits. Like, under a certain amount of followers, like, doesn't really ever follow or reach out to like big models or models with like a bigger following that feel more like models. you know, because everyone's a model this day and age online. Like, you know.

Does he even know their models or are they just pretty girls online that would be open to being models? I think both. So most of the time they'll have, you know, you can tell by their feed that there are some, you know, posts where they've tested with other photographers before and you can see that. And so whether they're like trying to get into it or they have work on their page that they're sharing or whatever not, but sometimes it's pretty vague. And it's like, is this even a real model?

Is this a full-time job for your boyfriend? It's a full-time job. So he's an established photographer. He's an established photographer. And how does he make his money? He makes a lot of his money through corporate. Like he photographs biotech companies. He does head shots.

He does fashion. So he'll shoot for some fashion brands. And I think that's where what he likes and kind of where more of his passion is. Yeah. Be a little bit more creative. and I do think he has a talent for it and I want him to be shooting that stuff. I want him to be successful in doing what he likes.

Is he working with, I was a model for about six seconds. I got signed by Wilhelmina Miami. They sent me to Miami and they had me for a week do like a bunch of photo shoots. And they set me up with some pretty established photographers to help me like put my book together. Right. And I'm just curious, like, is your boyfriend working with other modeling agencies where

when they discover or find talent that they believe in, they would send that person to someone like your boyfriend who would do this shoot. Like, again, I'm no expert in the, in the photography industry, but it doesn't seem totally necessary. And again, I could be speaking on a turn for him to be proactively reaching out to models to shoot them. Like, I imagine every photographer needs like a book, I don't know, but he's, how long has he been doing this? 15 years. 15 years.

So, like, I'm assuming he has whatever, like, how is him shooting young models who aren't signed by agencies? Like, what is that doing for his career? Like, does he not have, like, an established portfolio of, like, really beautiful shots he's done that he could show prospective clients. I imagine he does at this point. And again, like, why isn't he going through the agencies, right? I don't know. So that was a good question. And he does. He does work through agencies sometimes. Sometimes agents hit him up and they ask him to shoot new faces or work with like maybe a greener model. And so he will do shoot. He will do

that sometimes. And he actually just got back from shooting for an agency and he shot, I don't know, like five or six models over a couple days, like one in a studio, one outside. And yet is, he does frame it as like building his portfolio, which I can see a case for when you're trying to move into, I think the industry, I don't understand it really that much. And even in two years, it still feels like a very foreign world for me. There's just a lot more. nuance within it than I think like just the average person that's not involved in it at all like me like really can understand um and so but that's a good question I I honestly think I should ask him that I think I should ask him like what is work what does shooting these models do for you like

what are you get and maybe it's just like you know I feel like if I ask him that he would say like it's just experience, it's networking, it's shooting different looks. It's way too vague. You've been doing this for 15 years. Like he's not breaking it. So yeah, and I've brought this up to him like before to let him know that like, hey, this kind of bothers me. And I don't know if it's like from like a selfish perspective of where I'm like, I don't want to be dating the guy that DMs random chicks on Instagram. Like, you know, it's just, It almost feels embarrassing for me. Like, you know, like, I'm like, you're better than that.

Like, you don't need to be like, you can, there are other avenues, I guess, is how I feel about it. I don't know. I kind of agree, you know, it's like. And also, like, you know, you're a blonde. Why is he not ruinishing out to brunettes? Like, what's going on? Yeah, not often. It is interesting.

And then there's also another, like, kind of big piece to it. But I also would like your thoughts on that has to do. with an ex-girlfriend of his. That's kind of been like a major play in our relationship since the very beginning, who fits the same stereotype of a woman. And I don't know how much I'm like overthinking it or if it even has anything to do with it at all. But yeah, there's that as well.

When I had brought it up to him in the past, there was a point in time where he did stop following. Like I would say like, you know, he just turned 40 last year. And I'm like, I don't know how appropriate. it is like these are young they're young you know and it's like he'll use the argument of like well what if it was a male or a female photographer reaching out to younger male models would you still feel like it's as the same you know it's just i'm like i don't know maybe kind of and there was a point in time where he did stop following quite a few of these like random models and you can see like they don't

follow you some of them most of them don't follow you back so it's like you haven't worked with each other in the past. What's the point? And you look at their stories and their feed. And it's just all like tits and ass and sex. And it's hot and it's cute. But it's like that's probably like when he's on his Instagram, like that's what's feeding all the time. And I'm like. Yeah. But also like, yeah. There is also like he's supposed to be, he's a 40 year old man who's been doing photography for 15 years. He should be established. And I am assuming he would want to be. thought of as somewhat of an important person. And by important, I mean just like someone with experience, you know, like, I am assuming whether, regardless of what his real intentions are,

and it's honestly hard to say, do it, you know, I have very little information. I'm just, you know, but you would think that he won, you know, if I'm a 50, if I'm a 40 year old 15 year veteran in photography with the purest of intentions, I would want to be careful that I don't, that I'm not perceived because in this industry, whether he's one of them or not, I am sure he's no, you know, like there's a lot of, it's like there are a lot of men who got into photography to meet chicks, maybe all of them, you know, and, and, and, and some of them might turn out to be like really great photographers. But at some level or at some point, yeah, he, you would want him to be, have reached a level of success that he has something to lose and to be thought of as not as

accessible or just to get like I guess any industry that sells a dream and and certainly like modeling is you sell a dream it is filled with people who take advantage of the people chasing a dream and if I'm your boyfriend 15 years in I would want to be self-aware enough to know that right And so back to like what like objectively speaking, what, what is this doing for your business other than like, you know, what? Like he's basically sounds like he's described it. It's like just keeping me sharp, you know, just working on my craft. You know, I'm just like he's a basketball player just like shooting a couple extra free throws

just because he looks the grind, you know? Or if he talks about it, it'll be like he wants to be shooting, you know. And a lot of times in the industry, like, you end up taking like assisting gigs or digit teching gigs to get by. And a lot of photographers do that because I've met a lot now. And it's very common. And so it's like just setting up shoots, you know, so that you are shooting and you are producing work. And I see it from that point. And I also like want him to be, you know, successful and whatever, you know, he needs to do to get there.

feel like he's getting there. I want to be supportive of. Does he ever shoot men? He does. He does shoot men, but I don't think he's ever reached out to a male photographer. They've reached out to him. See, that's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. See, that is a good point, actually. I mean, yeah. Because if this is about reps, if this is about shooting, and this is about just getting,

you know, again, more women in modeling than men, for sure. but he's never reached out to a guy? Maybe he has, but I'm pretty sure. Not to, at least since we've been together, why isn't he following any hot male models? Yeah, I think he only really follows models that, you know.

This is about art. He's worked with before, you know? Oh, yeah. You know, like if we're giving your boyfriend all the benefit of the adults, I think there's sometimes maybe a level of like, he's just convinced. you know like no guy wants to be creepy and no one means to be thought of as the creep and and i think when you say it out loud i became a photographer to meet chicks that it just sounds inherently creepy but like listen we all do things and by people we all do like you know everyone's doing things to

meet people in a way right i think again when it comes to the modeling industry it's an industry that sells dreams so there's an extra level of like it's easier to take advantage of people yeah but i guess what i'm trying to say is it's it's not shocking that like if we're giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's just convinced himself that he's one of the good guys. And I'm not saying he's not one of the good guys, but he is not being at least self-aware that maybe even if you're one of the good guys that like you, you are giving yourself a pass on optics that just don't land. And you know, and you might not be a creep or have bad intentions. You might not be sleeping with these women. But like, you're only following women that typically seem to be your type. You're not following men. You shoot men. You should be reaching out to men. Like at least, One out of five? I don't know. Why don't you follow any of these people? Like, why don't you know, like it's, has he ever dated any of his, any models that he's shot? Has he ever hooked up

with any of them ever in 15 years? I don't know. You've never asked. I've never asked. I would ask. That's a good question. It's hard for me to believe that he, he's definitely wouldn't be the type to take advantage or, but. I'm not suggesting he took advantage. I'm just like, suggest in the most organic and like he was single she was single there was some flirtation and like he dated one of them yeah i would be curious to know that i maybe that's something i should ask i i don't even know what that information would do for me maybe it would make me feel more uncomfortable about the situation yeah but again like best case scenario for you he is just acting a bit obtuse. I think that's the word to use here about like the optics of his

industry and at the risk of feeling a little, you know, like he's doing something wrong because maybe technically he's not doing anything wrong. He is unwilling to just acknowledge that some of the things that he is doing is just kind of like hard for any partner to accept. And while he's not doing anything wrong, he is not necessarily moving in a way that's quite honestly, super appropriate and not consistent with like the way with with the story he's selling because if this was just about experience and shooting people then why isn't he ever shooting men why isn't he following these men why does he need to follow any of them why after 15 years why isn't he the photographer who's like yeah he doesn't follow models you're lucky if you get to shoot with them you know like

that's what how i pitch it to him it's like you don't have it's like sometimes i'm like why are you following this she looks like yeah he comes like this doesn't look good he doesn't doesn't come across. His internet behavior doesn't come across as an established photographer. It comes across as someone who's like, I want to get into photography. And it matters. Like these platforms matter these days for photographers and for anybody in the industry, I would say. And yeah, like, like I had mentioned like this girl looks so young. He's like, oh, I just shot her like this agency reached out. And it was true. Like they did and he did shoot her. But it's like you still don't have to follow her on Instagram. And he said, well, he said like, well, a lot of times when the

agencies want you to post. They want you to collaborate with the model. Like, everybody wants, and I guess for me, I'm like, maybe you have to be following each other. I don't know. I don't feel in that. You do to collab. I was like, okay. Yeah. So I was like, okay. And that does make sense. And this girl is also, is it her, his type specifically? So I didn't really have any like, there was no like guard going up or whatever. I was like, okay, I hear you. Maybe I should stop. I also don't want to be feeling like I need to keep a check on it, you know, like, and that's just taking a lot of time. What, what if anything is he doing to like, does he acknowledge at all that like you're not crazy for like? Yes. So that that is the thing is that like

what I had brought it up in the past, he did stop. He did go through and stop following a lot of these models like, you know, that I had kind of been like, come on, you know, like it feels like you're leaving a door open and it just feels disrespectful to our relationship. Like, it's just kind of like it's just also like comes across as a little at some point, you know, and when I was single, I was, you know, it's like you don't even realize it at first. You're just like, oh shit, I follow a lot of models. You're like, follow here and a follow there. But yeah, at some point, it like a 40 year old guy in a relationship, it just kind of comes across as. Shady or creepy.

And I think at the point where I brought up to him and he did stop following and it did feel like, oh, okay, this is like I gave him an actionable thing. And he felt very respectful. And then I felt good about that. And I'm like, I don't really need to bring it up again. And then it just, you know, five, six months go by and then it's happening again. And I'm like, okay, well, why did you correct the behavior like in a sense before? But now we're back.

you know um so that's confusing it's almost like he kind of heard me and he felt like okay yeah and then he didn't really feel like he was doing anything i don't don't even want to say he's doing anything wrong because it's like maybe maybe it is completely innocent like you said like all you know give him the benefit of the doubt maybe it is i mean yeah yeah it would make sense if you brought it to his attention and he made some changes for your comfort, never felt like he was doing anything wrong. And then just like time passed where he just kind of got back into old habits. But yeah, I mean, listen, I, you know, whether it's you or he, like, I just, at this stage of his life, I think he should, from a business standpoint, just like, listen, like, anyone looks

at your page is going to, I don't know. It's just, you know, it's funny. I still follow a couple photographers back from my very brief modeling career. And they will post a lot of beautiful pictures of beautiful women and very sexualized. I have no idea if these guys are in relationships or things like that. I honestly haven't looked to see who they follow. I don't know. If nothing else, he needs to stop reaching out to a bunch of strange young women, especially if all those women have blonde hair, you know, where it's just like,

It needs to be a little bit more business focused. And I don't think he needs to start following those people right away. And yes, if he's getting work through an agency and they want them to collab and he does that. But it sounds like right now you're playing the cop and you're observing these things and you're like being the angel on a shoulder that says, are you sure you want to do that? And now for you, it's also coming from a place of like a little insecurity from a place of like, well, I'm your girlfriend. But even if all you were was like his business manager, you know,

like you have some valid points and you probably would just wish that he would, even if from the business side makes some slightly different moves because the way he, the way you're describing how he moves, it is hard for me to totally understand all the business reasons

for why he needs to move the way he does. And I think he would agree. I honestly. And so then, okay, and then there's, there's also, so about the same time that I brought up him, like, this makes me uncomfortable. I don't know if this looks good. There was also this whole like saga with his ex. And I feel bad like talking about it because he really struggled with this, like during this time in his life. Like he, before we met, he had been like separated, broken up with this girl that he had been

dating and this girl was tied to his best friend. And I think he had brought this girl into like his life and his best friend at the time and his best friend's wife at the time. And then his wife and his ex were like really close, got really close. And they had like this foursome of just like being really close and doing a lot of things together and this was like his best guy friend like his closest guy friend and then when they split his whole friend group went with her and he like lost not only like his girlfriend but his best friend and this like core group of people where he like really identified with and had a really

hard time with it why did he lose all these friends so i think he has the girl he was dating at the time was ready, like wanting the next thing. And he wasn't ready. Like, I just think, like, he describes it as like, and it kind of goes into this, like, it's not related, but it's kind of related to like the way that he moves. Yeah. So, and you would think like, oh, if this big explosion or whatever in your life had happened, like, that you would take a look at like the way that you live and the way that you're moving and clean it up or, you know, I don't know how to, the best way to describe it. But he kind of has like the victim mindset, like when it, when it comes to it. Do you know his ex? I do not. I wish that I could talk to her.

I bet it would blow your mind. I think it would too. And that's, this is also part of the thing. It's like, oh, man, there's like so much. I don't want to get into like all of it. But so before I forget why this ties into it is because when I had brought up the models and following thing to him, I also, he has like a professional website. And there were pictures of her on his professional website still. And they were like old photos. But you know, you select pictures and you're always changing what's on there. And it just made me uncomfortable.

And I'm like, why do you still have her on there? Like she made, she's made it clear to you that she's moved on. She's engaged, which I'll get to. And she's like has been in this relationship for a long time. They broke up like years before me and him started dating and he was still like so torn up about like hadn't healed at all it felt like when we started talking like I think we started dating in 2024 we met in 2022 we didn't start dating until two years later and by that time they were already broken up and had been broken up for a

year or two so we're talking like four five four years probably at that point it's a lot of time And it makes you feel, like it makes me feel for him. She's blonde. She's got, yeah, tall. Like the word, it's, it is. Yes. Yeah. So, and she also is kind of like got this like, I think she's from the Midwest.

I'm from the Midwest. Anyway, he had these pictures of her on his website. And I asked him to take him down. I just like was like, it would make me feel comfortable if you took them off your, they're not like amazing pictures. it just feels like you don't have to justify it it's a it's a fair yeah and he didn't and he wouldn't and he kept pretending like he was like forgetting about it or he didn't know it was there and it's like and i had like not like five days in a row but like i would say something and then like a few months

later i would really look at his website and be like why is that picture still there you know and it just felt like i don't know like come on anyway eventually he did end up taking it down but it felt like i really had to like ask and reask multiple times, which was annoying. And yeah, anyway, so did he eventually take them down? He did eventually take them down. And so they're down now. And yeah, anyway, so they're down now. But when we first started dating, he opened up to me and he let me know like this like RIF happened in my life. I lost my. And he framed it as like he was really missing his best guy friend, which I do think. there is truth to that, but the longer that we've been dating and the more that things keep coming

up and the more that I see and the more that I kind of learn bit by bit, I feel like it was more about her than him. And so it kind of feels like, it doesn't feel like our relationship was built on a lie by any means, but it just kind of is like, oh, was there more dishonesty from the get-go than he's leading on? And how does that make me feel? Like, you know, it was like he was so distraught about it, But he framed it as like, that was my best friend, like, as in the guy, you know, and he wanted everybody to be able to be friends. And like, you know, because they all still live here and they are into the same music and we'll see them at shows sometimes. And like, he sees his ex best friend. Have you ever met them?

Like, they're not even saying hi. Are they? Yes. So on Valentine's Day this year, we saw them at this show in the city. And they were there. His ex, his ex, his ex is fiancee. ex best friend. And I was kind of upset with him a couple days later because he didn't introduce me to his ex best friend. And he talks so much about him. And there's all this thing.

But then he's like, he'll frame it to me like, F him. Like, F that guy. Like he doesn't want to, he doesn't come up and talk to me. Like, and I do, I do get his point like to a certain degree. Like his friend did like cut him off and it was shitty and like maybe unnecessary. But I, I think I You know if that's totally true? I don't know. And I wonder if part of it was because my boyfriend had a really hard time letting go of the girl. And they're all intertwined. And like the ex friend just couldn't handle like all the everything that came with like them not being together anymore.

You know? And part of me is like, oh, he wanted this relationship so bad that like with this girl. And she at one point she was like, I'm done with this. I'm not waiting around anymore for a ring or whatever, and she moved on. And I think he just like, I think in his head he was like, she still loves me. There's no way like she could be with somebody else. And now it's like, now she's engaged and it's like all coming to a head. And it's a lot for him.

But yeah, we saw them on Valentine's Day, no communication. Like I didn't get to meet any of them, which was sad. And we had run into them at previous shows. And he wouldn't tell me they were there. And he would know. And it's like, and then I would find out later by some other way because I didn't really like, and it's dark at concerts. And I don't, I've never met her.

So it's like I've seen a picture or two, but I really don't know if I would recognize her on the street, to be honest. I don't know. And so it's just like if it's this big thing, but then you can't talk to me or anyway. So that's kind of always been a thing. And he also is like, well, I don't know what you would be comfortable with or, you know. And that, I understand. stand too because it's been an issue for us because like I would say like last June so this has been like almost a year ago now he went to we go to the desert a lot to Joshua Tree it's like a big

trip he's got a big fan sleep in the van okay so and there's the show every year it's really into like desert rock and it's kind of a nichey genre of music and he introduced it to me I love it It was fun, you know. And so he went down to the desert. I went with him and then I flew back because I had to work. And he stayed with his van. And there's a lot of nuances that come with this story. Like he was staying with this friend of his, well, he was staying in his van, but parking it at a friend of his house. And this friend of his is, they've been friends for a while. She's also a desert rock fan, but she's very like eclectic. And like he had told me a story about her. her. She's like the Swedish bombshell that like he had hooked up with in the past and, but he'd never had feelings for. And at this point in our relationship, this is like a year in, I'm not 100% comfortable with them spending time alone together. Like as I feel like anybody would. I don't know her that well. I don't know her intention. You know, like I just, and that had been brought up to him and he still decided to stay at like park his van at her place and hang out with her

while I wasn't there. And so there was that. And then they went to the show together. and they saw, they ran into his ex and her fiance. And I wasn't there. And he, so he tells me, like, after the show the next day, he's like telling me, oh, yeah, you know, she was there. And, and I just like, and he's like, and it made me realize that, like, I don't want anything to do with it anymore. Like, I feel really good.

And he was kind of framing it like that, okay? And I was like, okay, like, did you talk to her? And he kind of, like, gave me, like, a run around of like, yeah, a little bit, this and that. And then he came back, you know, and like we talked. And I just had this feeling. Like I don't know. Like sometimes you just get this intuition. And so I went through his phone.

And I went into his deleted text messages, which I didn't even know you could do it this time that I'm doing. And I guess you can delete certain text messages. And it'll save it in a deleted text message folder. So I'm in this folder and I'm opening up. I'm like undoing all these deleted text messages. And then I'm going back into his messages to see them. And he had deleted all these specific messages between him and this girl that he was parking his van at.

And it turns out that he went to this bar the night before the show and without the girl's house that he was staying at by himself. And he ran into his ex that night and didn't tell me about it. And we talked on the phone that night too. And he didn't mention anything to me about it, which is kind of you would, anyway. And so, and he's messaging and the messages are like, and so it's like to even consciously delete certain messages is like, okay, you obviously know this is wrong, you know, and that this is something you should probably bring to me. But then the messages were like, oh, my God, she's here. She's with her, with her boyfriend. I don't know if they were engaged at this time. What do I do? Like, I feel so weird. She's acting like she doesn't know me. How can she just ignore me? And the friends, how? house he was staying at. How long you've been with him at this point?

One year. And this girl is messaging back to him and saying like, should I come and like corner her in the bathroom and like give her a note. And he and my boyfriend's responding back like, I would be forever indebted to you if you helped me basically get a conversation with her and all this stuff. So it was like, he was like ecstatic and also just like shocked, you know, and like wanted to and just it was just very clear between their exchange, you know? And so that hurt. And, and so then I brought that to him and I was like, what is this? Like, why didn't you tell me you ran

into her the night before? And he's like, it was just a lot. Like I, and a lot of it probably is like resurfacing trauma of just like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. You're, why are you so understanding? I know. Because I know he is a good guy. And I don't just say that like he's a good guy, but like he cares about people and his friends and his family to a degree that is like hard to find honestly like into today's day and age. Like I think that he like relationships like close relationships really mean something to him. Like he'll cry about like his best. He has like a friend like a like he's just like means well. And I know that. You would agree that something's not adding up. Right. Like you. You would agree that something's not adding up. Right. Like you. would agree that there's like something about the way your boyfriend moves that just doesn't add up. You know, like when you tell the story, there's just like, yeah, but like the fact that he was dating this woman with this friend group. And when they broke up, that friend group chose her. Yes. Like says something. Don't know what it says specifically, but it definitely says something.

So he'll describe that as like it was, it's the best friend of his, the guy best friend of of his, it's his wife's is running the show. And his wife is like, he'll just do whatever his wife says. And he's like, he's, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe. Or he's just like a super respectful husband who's like, yeah, I mean, she's my wife, bro. And she is my ride or die and she's my partner. And at the end of the day, he isn't that guy. What do you mean? I don't know if that changes. Well, I know he's not that guy because when describing his ex, like he would be involved in like sleeping with a bunch of prostitutes and like always lying to his wife and cheating behind her back and all this terrible stuff which also begs a question

for like why is he friend of them yeah but you know what I'm saying like there's always there's always something about a story that just doesn't add up and he might be a really nice guy you know but I'm saying it's just like he is 40 and he's having a hard time if nothing else growing up and maturing. You know, it's like, fine. He used, he used to reach out to models. Why is he still reaching out to models? It's, you know, there's a version of the story where it made sense and it wasn't creepy and he was his out there hustling and he was single and whatever. It just was what it was. And maybe he dated a couple of them, but like no big deal, you know, but like, you know, his, his ex-girlfriend who he was, sounds like super in love with. And you're right, you paint

like an accurate picture where like he probably took it for granted and probably thought she, they would always get back together and then they just didn't one day and that fucked him up you know but it wasn't enough for him to do anything different there's a version of him is still expecting people to like follow him he's got a van he goes to cons he has this alternative lifestyle that he doesn't want to give up and he's full of excuses and reasons and i'm not saying there are lies they're just kind of it's all kind a it's a little bit of bullshit a little bit a little bit of his life is bullshit you know and at some point and listen like i you know i was super single in my 30s and like living out in alay and doing all these crazy things and like it's weird how comfortable you can get like you you do lose track

of time in a sense like you or even like i go home to wisconsin and like my friends are different stages of life that i was and there's a lot of it which i'm living the good life to compare to like you know they're living vicariously through me but yeah it's it can get weird fast sometimes and yeah it's it he should be past the point of reaching out to random inexperienced models like that should i be upset that he had messaged a friend of his saying that he was distraught finding out that his ex was engaged and this was like a month and a half ago yeah at this point yeah i think you're way to accommodating and understanding And I don't doubt that he is a good, decent guy with a lot of, I don't think you're like delusional

for wanting to date him or fall in love with him. But I think you're in a way being a taking advantage of, it kind of sounds like you're just, you're understanding. Like, and again, like, you've been dating for two years. And the way he needs the emotional support to run into his ex-girlfriend is jarring. Thank you. That reminded me, like, the way, what you described, I haven't been in that state of mind since I was like 23, 24, you know, my first girlfriend, we broke up a bunch of times, it got back together, but she always had this hold on me. And I would try to date other women and I would try to convince myself I was over her and even convince them if it got brought up, but like I never really was, you know, to a certain,

you know, a certain extent. Like, am I in that place? Am I that girlfriend right now? Yes. Yes. It means two years. You know, if you, if it's like, hey, been in it for two months and it's still kind of new, we're still building. And so this is what he'll tell me is he'll say you're, when things are good with us, this, I don't want anything else. I don't my mind. I don't think about her. I don't. But when there are riffs or when things aren't great. When you bring up the fact that I have DM models, then I start missing my ex-girlfriend. He's like, okay, that's great. Like, so it's all your fault. And I mean, I'm not perfect, you know, like, I'm not. And the thing that he doesn't like that I do.

do is like I'll get to my like I'll all run out of patience and I'll be like I don't want to do this anymore like I just let's just be friends you know like I don't want to do this and he feels like I break up with them and then it's like this whole thing and that's your big that's your that's your big flaw is yes that sometimes you come to the realization that this doesn't feel right and it's too heavy and I'm too understanding and I honestly can't make sense of all your different reasons and stories for why you're a 40-year-old man who lives in a van. I know he doesn't live in a van, but like lives the van life and like DM's 21-year-old models while he also has a 35-year-old girlfriend whose ex-girlfriend left him because he just didn't want to grow up or settle down.

And despite his love for her, couldn't do that. Like, what are your relationship goals? I would like to get married and have kids. And what about this relationship and what about him suggests that's going to happen anytime soon for you? That's what I am asking myself. And that's why I wanted to talk to you because I realize that, you know, and I feel partially guilty because things haven't been perfect with us because of, I mean, and I would say like a lot of it has to do with my, you know, reaction and the way that I'm handling,

the things that are being thrown at me. I don't, I mean, I don't know how you're handling it. but like you are justifiably upset. And you are just like, I'm sure sometimes you handle it good and sometimes you handle it poorly. But the fact that you have to handle it, period, is an issue.

And you've been having to handle it your entire relationship. Yes. And you're trying to basically like convince yourself that like he is enough being the nice, empathetic, caring person who has a big heart and just like maybe does some charity and he's a good guy but like he is maybe just a good guy to too many people and he's not a great guy to the people he needs to be a

great guy to specifically his partner you know the people have a lot of different opinions about me you know in the world um and i do like to think the people who know me a little bit think i'm a pretty decent guy but like what matters to me is that like my wife thinks i'm a great great guy and that I like she you know and she doesn't have to like I mean it would like to have to to have to can to know that my wife would have to just try to like convince herself that she has nothing to worry about constantly that is like a not a that would bother you yes yeah like you how is that a relationship if you have to constantly wonder and then have to do mental gymnastics with yourself if you have to like replay conversations that you've had with your boyfriend

about why he does what he does and then kind of be like, I guess all the time, like, you're never in a state of comfort and security that you should be in. And again, his track record is one of like he doesn't want to settle down. He's not in, he, he, I mean, he can't even. But he'll say he does. He'll say that's what he wants. No, he doesn't. Then why didn't he settle down with her? Yeah. And I think he regrets that. And he'll regret that. And he'll regret that probably for the rest of his life. And it's like, that sucks for me because we have so much life left to live that I want to do together. I mean, he won't. Yeah, I don't, you know, I think he should leave. I don't, sorry. I don't, I don't know. I am sorry. I don't usually like to make these

kind of, there's just a lot of things that I just does, this does not sound like a, yeah, I wouldn't want this for my friends. And you're 35 and you're still obviously young, but I don't, do you want kids? Yes. You know, you, I mean, I do with the right person and the right situation. You know, your biological clock is a thing you have to consider that he doesn't. Yeah. He is this not giving you a lot. What, what about like, all you've told me about him is that he's like kind to people.

He has a great relationship with his family. He comes from a great family. I think that he is like picky about who he surrounds. What does it have to do with, with you two? Like, you know, I guess my point is, is this like, I don't know, again, you can say a lot of things about me. And like, I do think people think who know me think I'm nice, but no one describes me is like this overtly kind people who's just always just like, you know, walking the streets with kindness. And again, I do charity. I do a lot of, you know,

but like I just, even sometimes my siblings will get frustrated with me about like how closed off I can be. And I'm, you know, but you know who, know who doesn't think that? My wife. You know who's never, no who's never thought that ever? My girlfriend. Because I'm in relationship like I prioritize you know like I'm very good at knowing where my energy is going to to the frustration of other people in my world and it's great that he's a nice guy and it's great that like everyone's friends with him and everyone likes them and it's great that he's just like but i would say he's selective and i feel special in that way too is like i and i selective how i think he's selective in like, you know, like who he does spend time with. And like, and I feel like he does give me,

like, I do feel like he loves me and I do feel special in that way. And like, I do feel like he does treat me really well in his sweet, you know, and we have like a really good thing and like something that's hard to find. And I'm sure you probably, you probably, hear that all the time. But like he has, you know, like his past relationship that he's so bent out of shape about. Like that was probably his most serious relationship aside from ours. And he even just told me the other night, like this relationship that I have with you, I have never had this with anybody. Like we lived together. He had never lived with anybody before. And he's 40. And yes. But think about, but like, yeah. Like he's not 25. Yeah. He's 40.

Yeah. And he has, I just, I think he has to have greater expectations for himself and how he moves. And I think he needs to, listen. And I, listen, I didn't marry, like, I'm, like, I'm, like, I'm not trying to age shame him or trying to be like he can be the, like, I have, I live a young life. But there's some aspects of his life that he is, yeah, I think he needs them mature and, and be a little. think that part of it, like as a man has to do with like feeling like you can take care of a family before you agree, like you do that. It's like part of me feels like he wants his career to feel like more stable and more like solidified. And like I do think he does really well. And, you know, but it is an industry that is ever evolving and changing and it's hard. Well, that's a couple things. Like one, you know, yes, do men want to feel?

that of course but like how much is enough you know I don't know what does he need you know back in the you know all men for the throughout history have felt that way and yet it didn't stop like my parents who were poor at 20 to like get married and start having kids and figure it the fuck out which kind of used to be the thing so it sounds like he's doing just fine and again like also he's in an industry that is inherently like unpredictable and has less stability so like if he wants stability then go get stability. If he wants to be a photographer, then you just have to accept realities of his lifestyle.

He always has an excuse for why he can't do some of the things that he needs to do to make himself happy or his partner happy. He just has to like, he's a little, I don't know, maybe it's he's spoiled. I don't know. But like at some point he has to make different decisions. And there's nothing I can do to like. get him to that place. I would love for you to talk to his next girlfriend.

I, again, because I bet, like, you know, like what you're, the picture you're painting is probably fairier accurate. And maybe, you know what I'm saying? At the sense that like, ultimately he's probably a decent guy who's, who's not like DMing random girls just to hook up with. Why is he friends with a guy who so comfortably hires prostitutes and cheats on his wife? That's a whole other story. But I digress.

Big red flag. You know, but let's assume that has nothing. to do with him and he's ultimately a decent guy. But like, I bet his ex-girlfriend just kind of got tired of this bullshit, right? Because it's just bullshit. And it's just like you shouldn't, if nothing else, regardless of what's going on in your relationship, you shouldn't be constantly having to understand and empathize with his situation and why you need to be okay with things you shouldn't be okay with. It's two years in and he's still getting over her. Like, then, I mean, No, like, I don't know.

Like, you can't have anything. It can't be that special. No offense. Sorry. If he's still getting over her. Like, I'm sure he likes you and it's nice and, you know, but like us, when it's good, it's great. But like, what about when it's bad?

Because a lot of times in relationships, it's not great, you know? And I bet she just got tired of his bullshit. She just is like, it's got to be better than this. And he was just like good enough to not, because he's a nice guy and he was fun. And he was trying to. He was fun. And he's not toxic. And he's not, you know, and he doesn't like yell at, you know, and he's like, there's, you know,

so many worst boyfriends out there. And he was just like, but it's all kind of bullshit. Yeah. And he needs to grow up. So let's say, is there a world where like he learned from that with his ex? And now he could be ready for that with me because I think that's where I've, I think you're too under. I think you're too understanding. And the only way you're going to take multiple conversations for him to like change his actions

with these things. And then it begs a question of like we live together and we have this whole life together. And, you know, if we break up for me, it's just, it's like my whole, it feels like my whole world is changing, which is fine, you know, and I'll be fine and I'll, you know, get over it. But I think that's why in the past when I've said, like, I don't want to do this anymore. I haven't followed through because I recognize like, oh my gosh, this is going to take so much work to. I bet she felt that way. I won't want to do it again, you know? Like, I won't come back because if we're going to take the step for this to be over,

it's going to take so much work emotionally, you know, and just like in general, like my life, you know, it's hard to live where we live. It's not easy. It can't just go down the street and just book a new apartment. Like, it's hard. And it's like, okay, well, if it's, then that's going to be it, you know? And so, yeah, it's like, part of me is like, maybe, damn, maybe if we didn't live together, I would be able to like hold a line better and he would get to where he needs to be.

But it's like it's too accessible. He's 40. And I just like I just kind of keep pointing that out that I wouldn't expect any marketable changes in him. And it really needs to come from him. I bet she felt like she found someone. She moved on. I bet all. I bet she shared your fears.

And I'm not saying you walk up and break up with him now. And it probably doesn't help that you've already kind of low key try to break up. You know, like I just don't know what's going to be. different for him. And I think he just, it wasn't a, clearly it wasn't a wake up call for him, but the last one. And then he victimized himself in a way that like when you become a victim in a situation where there's maybe some opportunity for growth, there's not much growth. You spend more time thinking about how you were wrong. And two things can be true. He can be wronged. And he also, this could be an opportunity, it could be a wake up call. But he's, he's not seeing it as a wake up

call. And he has spent two years trying to convince you to why he's the victim in his movie. And you've bought it a little bit. But like that has stopped you from getting the things that you need. And again, at the end of the day, like more than anything, you can't be in a relationship where you constantly have to do mental gymnastics to empathize with your partner while constantly feeling slightly gas late all the time. Yes. I, that's like that is not a, that's not a state of, that's impossible, you're not going to get what you want. Yeah. So you need to accept that, or he needs to make a drastic change,

and he needs to hear you on why, like, you're making these decisions, but like, it's just, yeah, he, you know. That's helpful. Thank you. All right. Appreciate it. All right. Well, keep us posting on what you do.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but tough situation, but, yeah, you're not crazy. Thank you. You're not. You know, and I think you're a little too understanding. Thank you. I think there's a lot of women in California your age who are like, oh, girl, say. You know, like half of the people who are at Burning Man.

We're not burners. I just want to put that out there. But you go, like, you know, it's easy to live a Peter Pan life in that state. And coming from a fluent family, like, you know, He's just, he is not used to making hard choices that require a lot of sacrifice on his part. And I think that is showing in, in his life. Yeah. So, all right.

Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Dick. Keep me posted. I definitely want to know what happens. All right. I will. Take care.

Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye.