The Viall Files - E1139 - Love Island's First Crashout, BTS Conversations With Anna Peele, Calabasas Confidential With Jemma

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Early reports from Fiji have told us the villa is villa-ing and we are soooo excited to have THE preeminent Love Island journalist and author of Enter the Villa: The (Unauthorized) Reality Behind Love Island, Anna Peele join us to break down our first dumping (rip Sean, we hope you say hi to the mayor). Plus, we get into some Summer House drama, RHORI and more! Before that, however, Calabasas Confidential's Jemma stops by to make some BOLD claims about who on her cast may or may not be a yacht girl… stay tuned, girls. "The games within the game change constantly…" Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE? Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Bilt: Join the membership for where you live at https://joinbilt.com/viall  DirecTV: Go to https://directv.com/genrepacks and sign up today.  Ollie: Get ready for both you and your pup to be obsessed. Head to https://ollie.com/viall, tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 70% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! BetterHelp: Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/viall  Quince: Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Minky Couture: Visit https://minkycouture.com and use code VIALL at checkout for 50% off all full priced blankets. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 12:18 - Jemma Joins 29:36 - Anna Joins 02:07:38 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @peelebanana @jemmadurrant @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @baybaeee  

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Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Valfa's reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household and my wife. It sounds so weird when you just say white. I know. It's it. It's because you're so much more. You're so much more. Yeah.

It just feels like stylish, hot, sexy, cool, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny, funny. hilarious. Wonderful. We got a fantastic episode lined up for you today. It's so much love island to get to. Obviously, we have all the drama of the weekend to talk about. Kyle is a free man and he is starting to spread his wings by Al Cook.

leaning over, kissing over the DJ booth. Kind of giving Maddie Healy, be honest with you. Oh, that's a read. Lots and lots and lots of stuff to get into. We have a fantastic episode for you. Anna Peel is with us.

And if you don't know who Anna Peel is, you will after this episode. She's a very accomplished journalist who also just wrote a very exciting new book called Enter the Villa. She had full access to the production of Love Island. And she interviewed, I think, many, many hundreds, even cast members,

producers really got all the tea on the history of Love Island. She's here to talk about the show. Share with us her insights of Love Island, what she learned to help give you guys a little behind the scenes of the history, the production, how it all works inside the villain. Obviously here also to talk with us about what we're watching unfold on season eight of Love Island. Maybe she'll have some deep spiritual thoughts about the Melanie Crashout. The Melanie Crashout. wasn't really a crash out.

No. Lots and lots again, too. She's also just a big fan of all things. Bravo, so she's here to talk with us about some Rhode Island. I've never in my life said, I need a stack of ones. I don't think I've ever done that.

When Rula's husband, when she came out for her party, and Rula's husband was like, wow, I wish I had a stack of ones. Words that never come out of my mouth. You know, you really know you love a strip club

when that's the first thing. I've never said, when you see your wife's dressed up for a party. Right. And you need a stack of one. And you're like comparing her to looking like she's entering a strip. Like that's entertainment for the night. That's where your mind goes.

Not like, honey, beautiful. Wow. If your husband's really focusing on getting a stack of ones and that's in his vernacular, might be a deal breaker ladies. He also said Ho Ellen. Sorry, Joe Ellen is not our friend. He practiced that. He did.

That was in the mirror. He pitched that to a producer. For sure. Or someone pitched to his office. you could feel, I felt that he could feel the cameras around him. Yeah. He was doing a scene. Tomorrow we have a fantastic going deeper.

Kelly Potter from Real Housewives of Atlanta joins us to get into all things going on in the world of the Real Housewives of Atlanta. It was a great and exciting time for us to get to know Kelly Potter a lot better. What a dynamic and fascinating person. And we're excited to get to know her and have you guys get to know her a little bit better. And that will be tomorrow on Going Deeper. So do not miss that. Also for all you, Calabasasas, Confidential fans out there.

We have Gemma from Calabasasca Confidentia later this episode to talk about her experiences on that new hit show. Streaming now on Netflix. Fascinating cast and fascinating storyline. So we were very excited to get to know her and what it was like to be inside the Calabasasas confidential community. We had a date night last night. Cute. First one in a really long time. What did you guys do?

We just went out to dinner, you know. I just loved it because, you know, we went to Beverly Street Grill. and it's a, what's the... Hillstone. Hillstone. Have you ever been to a Hillstone restaurant? Really good. There's a lot of them in Texas.

There's some in New York. I just love it because I love it. I love it. Like we went on a Sunday night and no matter what, like when you walk in, there's always a vibe. You know, it's like a vibe. There's like a good energy. It feels like you're like in it, you know?

It felt like we were like date night. It felt like we were out, you know? Yeah. We were enjoying like the world and culture in society. Yeah. Versus going into a restaurant and it's kind of empty. And you're like, oh, wow. The host is in the back room and they come up.

Right. It's like pick a seat. Yeah, so where we won? It was a lot of fun. Would you rather have the most romantic date night in the world or for Nick to bring you cocoa pebbles exactly when you wanted them? See, he does pretty good with the cocoa pebs. But I also, like I have to eat it in bed. Oh, really?

Have to. Or it feels. Is it the same with the fruity pebbles or just the cocos? So she can leave a half-eaten bowl of cocoa pebbles with milking at our nightside table so that I can take it a day later. Yeah. But it's really just because I feel like eating cocoa pebbles, eating any like childlike cereal at a table at a bar stool. Like that feels intentional. Like you shouldn't be doing that.

I poured this myself. I sat down. I was like, I'm going to sit at the table. I chose this. I'm a grown up. Because it just showing up. And you're like, a treat. You guys, I got to be honest, it's Seinfeld rules with cereal for me at any point in time.

I'm going to be standing there with a bowl like Jerry in his apartment. To stand and eat a bowl of cereal, I do think is the way. In my opinion. There is something about that. I haven't had a bowl of cereal in a long time. So I don't know that I can contribute to which. It's been like my number one pregnancy. Honestly, it like hits.

I bought cinnamon toast crunch the other day at the grocery. Which is another thing. I don't buy it when I'm grocery shopping. We, like, door dash it late at night. You know, it's like, all we need is the cocoa bubbles. That's all we need. Yeah. But I did buy cinnamon toast crunch in the grocery store the other day.

And midday, I was like, Nick, I think I need a bowl of cinnamon toast crunch. Yeah, dude. And it hits so different. It's a pick. You need a good bowl of cereal. What would be your go-to, Sus? I would say cocoa puffs or... Coco puffs over pubs.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, puffs, I think. You're a puff girl. They sometimes have the peanut. butter ones, right? They do. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah. It's been so long since I've had cereal. Do you guys remember the Rees Puffs? Do you remember the commercial that they used to do? The Vsies Pups and the VCseses. They had the whole wrap for the Reese's Puffs. Recy Puffs. Recy Puffs. That was

the one I remember. Yeah, I like those. I also love a fruit loop. Ah, fruit loop. Two can't say. Two can't say I'm one of the only birds I'm not afraid of. I don't like birds. Anyway. Well, it was a great date night. It was our last date night before, I assume before the twins show up. Natalie's having a hard time with the transition from just a river. It's like, I feel like she's going to be mad at me. I feel like she's going to be like, mom, what are you doing? We had it so good.

It was just us and we did everything together and like. And now I'm potty trained. And now who are these two bitches? Yeah. And like, what's, they're taking your attention? Like, you can't hold me. What's going on? What's the vibes?

They're there to hang out with her. Is it like a sentimental thing of like these are your last. moments of just y'all too in river and like i feel like there was before river came obviously like you kind of grieve what's like the last bit of you and you're just you and your partner you're like okay it's never going to be like just us anymore we're never going to be able to just get up and go on a date night we're call a babysitter figure out it's good no no no no no and ever it's just going to be different and so i feel like i grieved that before river but now it feels totally like it just totally different like i'm just not sure about like with the twins that how

it's going to work because like now it's just like you know in the morning where we're sleeping with us and there's like a cuddle session and it's just her and there's like a bonding moment but what happens when there's two at any age yeah we're all three of them in the bed with us now I feel like rivers river's grown up I know that makes Stanley said no like she but she's not like that's but she's growing up not she's grown up she's on her way yeah but I slept in my mom's bed until I shouldn't have been I still pop in I still pop every now and again

I'll be there but like I want River to do that too no It was a fun day in We talked about our future Do you guys have a like a California king I feel you're gonna need to upgrade even more Once the California king is only longer

Oh okay It's not wider Do you know the only A special custom maybe The only Reference point I have for a California king bed is the Rihanna song California King.

Honestly, great songs. So like, it sounds awesome. Yeah. But we don't even have that. No, we just have a regular king. Okay. And, well, maybe if Amanda Francis goes back to Beverly Hills,

then she can get tight with Rihanna. Rihanna can get you guys a California king. Again, it's just longer. It's not wider. I know, but like, it's like we could put more kids down by our foot. It's like, it's like, it says California before. Think of like the burrito. Like you can get a burrito or you can get a California burrito.

Never had either. Are we loving Love Island with as much passion as season seven and six? Or is it just too early to tell? I'm honestly, I'm enjoying it currently now more than last season. I have a hot take about it. Give it to me. I think that it's a little more. I think that they seem a little healthier as people.

Yeah. Which is great. But not as much. The world love toxicity. Like that's why we loved last season because it was so messy. so unhealed and bad that it was like everyone was talking about this like explosion and now I'm like are people going to be talking about it the same way because these people seem kind of like okay people. For me it's just like it's a little much there's like the kissing the kissing and then

it's a truce no but like the threesome vibe like made me so uncomfortable the way it was just like one big bed and it's just like up to you to decide what like hated every second of that question for you. Do you think Love Island is just cocoa melon but horny for adults? What is Cocoa Mellon? Cocoa Mellon? Oh, yeah. I see what you're saying.

Coco Mellon is like this show for kids that's just century overload. It's the dancing fruits. It's like brain rot. Brain rot for kids. I think Love Island is cocoa melon. It's like horny cocoa melon. Probably. Because it's like all the bright colors.

It's bright colors and goo and loud music. and then No, as soon as we turn it on You know, it's just sensory overload River's locked in Like we can't put it on with river Oh really? Oh yeah

It's like the colors Honestly, drag race is the same Yeah She's in it We have to distract We're like doing so many other things as well We can't really watch it with her around We had to do some homework before date night

So we watched it She was there It was a little like I have to show you But even as an adult Like I find myself watching it And I'm just like you know what I mean?

Like it has this quality to really warm itself within your brain. I mean, it is kind of weird. It is like a bigger conversation where I'm like, I didn't have a show like this growing up. Even if I was just in high school watching this, like I do think there is something.

I buy into all the hype. I love it. I watch it. But I do think there is something like inherently like kind of gross and icky. And I'm like, dang, like this is what high schoolers are watching and like maybe thinking is normal. I mean.

Well, Gemma's about to come up next. But before we do, Don't forget the Valfaus Plus is available and ad free for all you fans out there get all ValfaS episodes ad free plus additional bonus content like our reality recap deep dyes where we dive deep into the granular topics of

our favorite shows. Obviously we're very much locked into Love Island, Summer House right now. We'll certainly get into the Valley since we haven't had much time to talk about that. Danny, I don't know. It keeps getting darker and darker. So we'll have time for that obviously on ValfaS Plus. So be sure to sign up. Go to ValfaS.com to do that. You'll be glad that

you did. All right. Well, let's get the Gemma. This one's for all my TV lovers. My Entertainment from DirectTV gets you 60 plus channels and Disney Plus Hulu and HBO Max all in one pack. But here's the thing with so much great TV in My entertainment, you're going to want to talk about everything you've been watching. Just remember that your friends might not be as well watched as you. Don't be a spoiler and encourage them to get My Entertainment for just $3499 a month. Go to DirectTV.com slash genre packs and sign up today New customers only service renews monthly unless canceled. Credit card required conditions applied to all apps.

HBO, Max, basics, and ads begin after DirecTV five-day trial. Learn more at directTV.com or strictions apply. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. During the summer, people are either thriving or surviving. For some people, it's travel, plans, kids out of school, and non-stop activity for others. It can feel overwhelming like you're just trying to keep up. Well, listen, no matter the time of year, whether it's summer, fall, winter, it's always good to check in on your mental health.

And through the help of a mental health professional therapy has now becoming more and more accessible. Thanks to better help. We know how difficult it can be to get therapy. It can be intimidating and certainly being costly and just feel generally inconvenient. Better help is helping alleviate all those pain points. They're working with over 30,000 licensed therapists

and have served over 6 million people globally. They make it incredibly convenient. My favorite part is with all the therapists that they're working with, they help ensure that you work with a therapist that you feel good about. about. That's the most challenging part about therapy is just finding the right therapist, and you can switch for free until you land on someone you feel connected with. It's truly a great way to just prioritize your mental health. Make sure you're keeping your mental health as in great

shape as you do your physical health. It's as important as your diet. It's as important as working out, sometimes even more, and BetterHelp is helping people do that. All you have to do is go to betterhelp.com, answer a few questions about the therapy that you're looking for, and you could be talking to a licensed therapist in no time. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp. com slash v i a l that's better help help.com slash v i a l l jemma welcome the show thank you thank you for having me uh did you ever imagine you would be a reality star reping the city of calabasasas hell no but somehow it seems kind of fitting at the same time i'm like maybe this was all meant

to be i was meant to be here yeah it feels like it makes sense because i mean i don't know i mean usually back of the day it was always like beverly hills and some of the more like iconic cities but calabasas more and more you hear about like that's where a lot of very fancy people seem to lay their roots down. Surprising it took this long. Yeah. Me too. I've been waiting for this.

Honestly, I'm like, and then when they came to me, I'm like, yeah, let's do it. I would watch. I mean,

it was striking the first episode. You have like Brett Michael's daughter. You got a masterpiece son. Yes. I imagine going to high school or growing McKalabasas. Was it, Did you realize that so many of your peers or people, like families were, you know, legends or super famous? Or were you, it was just kind of, you didn't know.

Honestly, because we all grew up together from when we were so young, you don't know that. And then you just are like, once we start getting older and people start having crazy parties and like artists start showing up as like to perform at like a 15th birthday party. And you start realizing like this is people are better than what you did. Like diplode when he recently performed for his. someone's like second his son's kindergarten graduation or something. Oh, yeah. I don't have a moment like that where you were. Oh, not at my party specifically.

No, but were you able to participate or get invited because some of your friends were shocked. Yes. Trippy Red, Travis Scott, like just at random birthday parties in their backyards in Calabasas. Yeah. That's crazy. So when this opportunity came about, they came to you and said what? What was the like original pitch that you heard? Basically that we're looking for kids that grew up in Calabasas that went away are now coming back home in their 20s and have no idea what the fuck they're doing. And I was like, I'm perfect.

Literally. Now, we couldn't help but notice that in the early episodes, especially even sooner around you, there were conversations about relationships that took place in high school. Now, for you, how did that feel or was it like, did you have to lean into that or did it feel a little like odd? for you to like go back and reminisce about like high school or or did it make sense or was it actually something that was still like gnawing at you? I think so the relationship that I had to relive on the show with Dylan. I feel like yes, it started in high school, but the thing with Dylan and I, it never ended. And so it is a long ongoing thing that he likes to dismiss a lot. But it's still very present in my life. I can't shake the man. And that was it.

So going back onto the show with him, it was still very much present current emotions because What is it about him that you can't shake? I don't know. I think I really should have listened when they said like be careful with the guy you lose your virginity too. I feel like that's like you get told that your whole life and you think it's such a small detail. But I don't know. I was young.

I was like I like him and he was a piece of shit. But like, you know, and then I decided to do it. And then now I, is he a piece of shit or is he just a boy? That's a good question. Honestly, I think he's, I think he's just a boy at the end of the day, but a boy that is learning and growing. And then what do you, like, do you have friends or family in your circle who are like, what, you know, I don't know. I've always had, I learned a hard way of dating when I, you know, but like when, when do you, when does your friends or family or support system, whoever it is, you go for relationship advice? Yeah.

What are they telling you about Dylan? and where do you draw the line between giving him as an excuse that he's just a boy and holding him to like how old is Dylan? 24. Okay. He's a man. Yeah. He's an adult man. But yeah, where do you draw the line?

Well, actually, my parents and my family had no idea about Dylan up until they watched the show. He was more so just like a friend that I would bring around. They had no idea about anything that happened to me in high school related to him at all. So is that weird? Yes, they're all like kind of looking at me at the table like a little weird right now. Like, oh, you guys know too much. That's interesting you say that because then like Brandy with her son. Yeah.

She was like I knew he lost his virginity when I heard like. Exactly. So it was like it was very like fluidly open with parents. Yes. But then with you, I guess. Yeah. And my, it's not like my parents make it a weird thing to talk about at all. I just feel like I don't like to talk about it with them.

Yeah. My family, I don't know if you catch. like the vibe on the show, but we like to make fun of each other a lot. It's very funny. I love that. We're kind of like friends almost. My family. We're very close. And so I feel like I'm the youngest. I've seen my older siblings bring in people and like my parents still will bring it up at the remember that guy. And I'm like, oh, I don't want to deal with that. And we're going back, you said it's ongoing. So you're still doing whatever with. Okay. Not like to this day. I think there's just we're very comfortable with each other. It's, it's very toxic and, you know, sometimes

you just, you like that. How many times have you cried over him versus he's cried over you? Oh my God. Okay. To be fair, to be fair, I've gotten the fair share of Snapchats, like crying from him, I will say, but I've definitely cried more. I mean, him saying that you are just a 2 a.m. call. And then he goes, oh, maybe sometimes midnight call. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. I know. I mean, he called me right before this. What time was at? Like noon? Yeah. He got the wrong 12. He got the wrong 12. I empathized with you because it felt like he was messing around with other girls while you weren't. Yes. Is that accurate or? I think that's typically what he does is I feel like he very much likes to love me a lot in private and hate me in public. And he does that by like getting with other girls because he knows that's how it hurts me. He knows. So you think he's doing it. despite you. Yeah. I mean, I've known this kid since I was 15.

I'm 24. Like, even when I went to college, it didn't stop. I was all the way in Oregon. That's wild. Can we talk about Swade? Oh, please, can we? So I was confused, and I'm a fan of Swade. Yeah.

But the first episode, or the second episode, she's giving you big sister advice. Yeah. And in the next episode, she's dating Dilton. Yeah, basically. It's giving Amanda Petula. Are you watching Summer House? Yes, it is. It's very on theme.

with the times. And like she was close to you, right? Yes. So like was that as shocking? A hundred percent. I think everyone was completely shocked by that because she was so much like I'm bigger and better than all of you. She's really giving that vibe and I'm going to coach you guys and like be this big sister

to everyone. For the show specifically or? No, just in life. I feel like she always is like I'm just going to be a person you can go to because I've been doing this for so long. And like she acts like. I, why would I even bother, you know, with that? That's basically how I got it from hers. Like, why would I even bother with that kid? Like, and then they went home after Kiki Chella and, I don't know, I guess.

She gave him a ride home, but then that was multiple rides. Yes, multiple. Where did the two of you stand today? Um, we're not friends. Yeah. I don't, I did not appreciate the comment about calling me an unemployed girl from the valley. I'm very much employed. I work at nine to five in marketing. So, that was crazy and yeah I don't think what she necessarily does counts as employed so oh no no but doesn't she do I mean like you know she was and she was big in her time no longer you know how do you think she keeps up with that lifestyle she goes on yachts with guys and does things for money and so I don't count that as employed either so so so the photo of her like with Drake were you're a yacht girl let's just say what it is where are you with

emma these days versus sway um honestly watching it back i have a lot of respect for emma okay i feel like she defended me in times when i wasn't there around dylan when she didn't need to i will say i at the party i came on a little strong at her and i feel like in calabasas i've had experiences of feeling left down like I don't belong and I really did get that from her watching it back and I felt bad. I felt bad. I really did. And I think moving forward, I'm going to make more of an effort to make her feel like more included and hopefully like move because I mean she got she dealt with Dylan too.

He was a piece of shit to her. You know, there's no need to hold on to that. But she was respectful about me behind my back. I can't say the same. She was a little more honest. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Yeah. What do you think it would take for you? or what do you think it would have to happen for you to not be friends with Dylan anymore? That's a good question. I don't know. Maybe if he, like, slept with my sister. Or, like, my mom's, like, probably what? Actually, no.

But, yeah, I don't know because that's a difficult situation. I do have a, I feel really sorry for him. I have a soft spot for him. Yeah. Yeah. Like romantically? Not romantically, but as a human. I feel like he's been through a lot

and he's told me a lot about it. So did you, how did like production find out about Dylan? Was this someone that you were like? They basically asked me about my experience in high school and I told them about, you know, the things that had happened to me, the whole like telling everyone that I lost my virginie to him, bloody Mary, all of that. And they were like, who is this guy? Because he's getting cast.

Yeah. This is going to be great TV. And I'm like, I know. He really owes you. Right? I know he does. And he denies it. But he does.

Because I definitely am the one that God is here. Has he apologized for the Bloody Mary? He's more of a like, it happened so long ago. Water under the bridge. Yeah, water under the bridge. I ride bulls now. It's okay. For sure.

Where are you with Nicole? Oh, I love her. Like my best friend. And is Nicole still friends with Swage? I think like friendly not as close as they were Because Swade implied that she was winning Nicole in the custody I know that's crazy by the way I had to rewind I was like wait

I watched it with Nicole She burst out laughing when she said that and said Are you blind like no one's agreeing with you Got it Yeah so who are you closest with And from the cast And also other than Swade Or is there other people you just don't fuck with

I feel like I'm closest right now with Nicole, Camora, Jody, and Preston. Like, those are, that's like my little group right now. Love Camora. Yeah, she's so funny. Like, I wish she had more screen time. I do. She also had a similar experience to you.

Yes, 100%. With Emily and. Oh, and by the way, that fight, like, literally only like 10% of what actually happened in the show. I can imagine, yeah. Like, that fight, that friendship breakup was like, so bad. Really? Yeah.

What did we not get to see that you wish we would have? I feel like, I don't know. I might leave that. for her to tell because it's not, people keep telling me I shouldn't involve myself in things. But it was, yeah, Emily, what she did to Camorra was 10 times worse than what was shown. And so she, let me just tell you, she deserved to be clapped in the face for sure. So what's your take on Emily in general? I think, you know, she said to me after the first day we filmed, anything for a check.

And I think that is what shows on camera. She's performing. Uh-huh. Got it. Yeah. And what won't you do on reality TV? Probably like have sex. That's a lot.

So you're not on Love Island. You're sticking to call onuses. Maybe. I keep seeing some comments like, we need you on Love Island. I'm like. Different platform, though. It's going to have to be a perfect match. Right.

True. Or maybe age of attraction. There you go. Yeah. Fuck. This is a funny question. And fuck Mary Kill, people who live in Calabasas. Okay.

Kim Kardashian, John Travolta, Dwayne Wade. Ooh, okay. I'm going to marry Kim Kardashian. Obviously. Kill John Travolta. R-I-P. Damn. And fuck Dwayne Wade.

Honestly, that is like really... Say that with your chest. Oh, yeah. What are the reasons behind killing John Travolta? Is it Scientology or you just don't like hairspray? Um, wait, I loved hairspray. Okay. I'm going to go with A.

Or... Scientology? Or... Answer. Or showing up as a director. Have you seen his new book? Yes. And it's like explanation for it?

Yes, I have. But also, I mean, Adele Dazim, I do think. Yeah. But I do think that that. But I would probably rather have sex with Dwayne. Right. Yeah. So great.

I think we all would. Right. Well, congratulations on the show. Thank you. What will people be able to look for, assuming you guys get a second season? I mean, seasons two is going to happen whether we're on camera or not. like things have already been happening. There are so many relationships that have turned around.

The boys are fighting right now, which I'm like, Preston and Dylan right now are at each other's throats. But you're closest with Preston. No, Dylan. She said that's the issue. We're having a little bit of a dilemma at the moment. Yeah. Because I am, I have been very close with Preston, but I am talking to Dylan again. So there's a little bit of it.

But you have such a soft spot for Dylan. Yes. And Preston knows that. And I think Preston's. playing the role of like you I'm just going to stay here and let you do your thing but I'm side-eyeing you do you think Preston also is learning from like his parents is Larca right? Yes. Reality TV.

A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I think Preston is his mother son for sure. He loves to be in the drama. And I think that's why him and I are really good duo. Have you met Scott? Kippin? Yes.

Have you met Larsa? I have not. I'm not. But she did call him and say that I'm good on. on the shelf. So that's a compliment. Oh, you got the Larsapipin stamp of people. Right? I'm like, thank you. Can you explain the importance of the Calabasasas Commons? Because if like every other scene was Calabasasas common sit at a table. I think that's the only place to go. I don't think people realize how small Calabasas is. Like the only, like that's where we would hang out when we were little.

You meet all your friends there and then. It's because the houses are so big and everyone has stuff to do with the houses. They don't need like a mall. That's, I mean, I would like a mall. We all have to drive to the city to go shopping, but that might be why the houses all have everything inside, because you have to drive so far. So you're driving to LA. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And what's your Lala land order? I do like a banana cloud matcha. Yeah. Like my go-to. And growing up in Calabasas, were you familiar with the location of the Bachelor Mansion? Was that like a thing for people in Calabas? Yes, I drove by. You know, you were the only Bachelor season I ever watched. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Literally the only one. Literally the only one. Literally the only one.

It was a very good. And so when they told me that, I'm like, oh, my God, again, meant to be, because what are the odds, the only Bachelor I've ever watched? What made you watch that one and not the others? I thought you were cute. Yep. Go, girl. You, my wife, and my mom. Yeah, just as three.

Well, thanks for coming on. Thank you. Congratulations on what we hope is a massive hit for you guys. And it's a very fascinating community and show. and hopefully you guys are around for a long time. Thank you. I hope so too. Thank you for having me.

That was great. Thank you. I love Gemma. Can I just say? Like this whole weekend I was scrolling through different TikToks and clips of like, she's still out with Dylan. She's still beefing with Swade. I think people are calling at the next OC in Laguna Hills.

They definitely are calling at that. I just wonder what I would say to River if she was hanging out with a Dylan. And obviously, like, she would be an adult. It's going to be challenging having these conversations with my kids when you're past the point of like you can't do that versus I don't think you should do that. I just can't imagine hanging out with all the people I went to high school with. Like that is my nightmare. Love you guys. But. Well, if you want to live your nightmare, be sure to check out Calabas's Confidential is out now and is on Netflix. For all you love island fans, the moment

you've been waiting for, Anna Peel is up next. And we get into the dirty details of just the everything about Love Island. Like I said before, Anna wrote a very awesome. awesome, compelling book called Enter the Villa. Talk. All things Love Island. We get into a little summer house and Rhode Island as well, and that is all up next. Well, if you love your dogs, like as much as we love our dogs, Jeff and Steve, you want to make sure you're feeding them top-quality dog food. And we are doing that with Ollie. Ollie's recipes are developed by real chefs and backed by vet nutritionists using high-quality ingredients.

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it hurts the wallet every month. That's why we love Belt. I was a lot. I was a I felt a little left out when Built was only awarding people for paying rent. But now if you have a mortgage, you two can benefit from the joys of Built. Built rewards members with points on housing payments, whether you buy or rent. You can redeem points towards things like travel, fitness classes, dining, and more. They work with partners like United, Hyatt, Lyft rides, and Amazon. The Neighborhood Concierge's feature can help you make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes, and discover local spots.

Bill has over 45,000 merchant partners creating even more opportunities to engage with membership experience. Bilt takes something you're already doing every month and turns it into something a little more rewarding. Join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com slash V-I-A-A-L. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com slash V-I-A-L. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. Anna, welcome the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. We're so excited to have you. Super excited to have you. I've known Anna for, well, I mean, I met you a couple years ago, which was very cool. And now she's written this really cool book called Enter the Villa that gives you basically the oral history,

like an oral history or a history of Love Island. You describe the book. It's the whole story of Love Island from UK all the way to the present seasons, talk to so many Islanders, talk to so many producers, the creators of the show, the hosts. I went to the villa. It's like everything.

It's from everything from casting to how they do the challenges. And then like how it impacts the people who go on the show. So how, first of all, I'm just curious, how did you get this type of access? Because I met, you know, when it comes to reality TV, obviously the production of these shows are very kind of protective of how these shows are made. And, you know, there's always so many, like, nuanced conversations about reality TV, which we often have on this show in terms of like, you know, what, what's the limit between, like, making a show versus the reality of it? And it's always, it's always very fascinating. but I'm just curious how does someone like you convince all these people to sit down with you, have these conversations to kind of give us the inside scoop of Love Island?

I feel like you would know better than anybody because you work independently. Obviously the networks aren't vetting what you're going to put out there, but you have relationships with them and they trust you because they know that you're going to talk about it in a nuanced, thoughtful way. And so I had written about Love Island before for Vanity Fair where I'm a contributing editor. and that had been dealing with like very serious stuff because three former cast members of Love Island UK had died by suicide. And so I talked about how the show changed its duty of care to protect cast members going forward. And so like that's about as dark as it can get for a reality

show, right? Yeah. And so after I did that, you know, they were like, well, if she handled this, this way, like, okay, like, we're cool with her. And then so the first thing I started out doing was literally going to the villa. And so I was like, okay, like, I'm in. But I, you know, I was clear with them from the start. Like, it's like, this is unauthorized. Like, they're not going to be able to read it. But, you know, we worked together to get access to, you know, people like Ariana and Mora. So unauthorized means that, you know, you're going to write it and you're not, like, asking for their approval before you edit it. Is that basically it? They didn't read it before it came out. Okay. Wow. So they didn't know, no, they didn't know what was in it. But I think everyone's pretty

happy with it because I think they can tell like I'm coming at this as a fan and like this is really like a love letter to the show but when you're like writing about something that you love you also have to be honest with it and not everyone who goes in the show has a great experience even though literally no one I talked to said that they wish that they hadn't done it you know even people who like had depression issues afterward they're like I wouldn't have ever gone to therapy if I hadn't gone on Love Island Interesting. Wow. Was that one of your biggest surprises talking to cast members?

I was surprised that some of the people I talked, like, I talked to Aaron from season six, who, you know, kind of wound up being one of the villains of the season and really went through the ringer. And, you know, fans really turned on him and they didn't like how he treated Kaler. And, like, it was super traumatizing for him. He had major mental health issues afterward. Like, he couldn't get out of bed. He said he still thinks about it every single day. I know.

And even he was like, I have now learned to take that my choices are my own. I have to take accountability for what I do and I've agency in my own life. I can't just like do things because people suggested or they think it would be fun or they're telling me it might be a good idea. And I was like, that's really powerful to like have autonomy in your own life. Yeah. And to realize you have it. I think that's something else like I even feel like from being on the show, The Bachelor, it's like, you sometimes feel like you don't have a choice.

And I think in talking to other bachelor people, a lot of people like to blame production or blame an edit or fans or whatever. But yeah, I feel sad for what happened to him. And I know how it feels to like continuously like go back to something. But I feel like he's probably a good person, you know? Like he just made a mistake on TV. I think he's a really sweet guy. I don't know.

Yeah. And he was very, he's definitely. I mean, he's definitely a sweet guy. We had an opportunity to interview him, like, honestly, probably like... It was right after the reunion, I think. Yeah, it was, like, probably when he was most likely at his worst. And it was, like, it was... You could tell there was a sensitivity there.

And it just felt a little, like, kind of to your point, because, like, you meet him and he's, like, this gentle guy. And he was, like, very sweet. And, like, it's not to say that he obviously made mistakes. And you could critique his behavior on Love Island with Kaler. But just the way the audience kind of... of just goes and whatever you know they kind of they're very hyperbolic and you know one lying concept turns into your a narcissist and all these names you know and people really come for your character and it's very i think for a lot of people on a reality tv show the first time don't aren't

anticipating that and they will internalize that and start like you know most of us aren't psychopaths and we're not narcissists even though the world like is this kind of naming everyone and if you aren't one of those things when you get called that. In fact, on Temptation Island, remember when Kaley and Summit, Kaylee was like, yeah, he's, you know, she was a saying, and like, he's a sociopath, and he heard that. And it was, like, you could tell, he was like, am I? Like, you know, and thank God, you know,

if you, if you aren't, it will bother you if you called that because you reflect, if you are a sociopath, you're like, no. Yeah. Well, it was really interesting talking to people who, like, became the villain of their season and, like, who it really wounded and stuck with and who, like, just sort of like internalized it and then use it to make changes and moved on. And I think it's what you said. I think it's like if that doesn't resonate with you, if you're like, that's not me,

you're misunderstanding me. I think that that hurts so much more than if you're like, okay, yeah, that is something about myself that I do know and I do need to work on that. Do you feel that like in comparison to other reality TV shows like a housewives, for example, that the way a villain edit happens on a love eye. island or a dating show affects is the like because it is so much about like your vulnerability and the way you like love and receive love and put yourself out there that that is what where a lot of like the psychological like issues come from with like those kinds of edits versus obviously with housewives it's hard but that's more like friendship interpersonal conflict resolution versus like you know

you're like vulnerable emotional relationship identity I guess well it's just I think a matter of timing. It's like on Love Island, it's being filmed and aired almost in real time. So it's actually happening to you. So it's over by the time you find out any feedback about it. That's what it always fascinates me about Love Island. Like we're sitting here right now talking about it. And right now, they're in the villa. Yeah. Like they're making avocado toast. Depending on time. And there's something happening right now. Like, you know, Melanie might be having her second crash out. Oh, I hope not. I know. Were there any cast interviews or conversations

that you had that surprised you the most or that really stood out to you? I love talking to Rob. Rob Rosh. One, like, hero slash villain of season six. Yeah. Like, I wound up loving

and appreciating him a lot more after seeing him on traders, though I did just love him throughout. But I was talking to him, he was shirtless, he was eating a banana, he was wearing a bucket hat. No way.

Are you interviewing? Yes. I'm weak. Yes. You showed up and he's shirtless. Where was it? He was in front of his trailer in Alabama. He was on his iPhone 4.

So he was just sitting back and like the lawn chair? Like I loved it. I was like four. I didn't know they had like cameras. Did it feel authentic or it didn't feel performative? No, I think that's just how Rob is. Every single person who like all the producers are like, he doesn't care. He could take this or leave this.

Like he didn't really care about being on the show. Like that's just who he is. I'm such a cynic because I think I'm I'm constantly like oh it's a bit it's a bit and he knows exactly what he's doing like he's got these overalls on and whatever but like to hear that to hear you to hear he has an iPhone four it builds a little authenticity I want his brand like the quality wasn't very good I don't tell him or not. How many versions of the iPhone are there? I'm 17 now, yeah. Four? Too many.

I had, yeah, I think I had the four like, like literally 12 years ago or something. Like, I think that was like one of the, like, the four was out when I was in like middle school. That's crazy. That's nuts. But also he can afford the upgrade. So is it performative? I don't know. I just don't think he cares.

He's like, it works. Why break it? And like, even though, like, even if you saw, like, did you watch season five of US? Yeah. The one before? So he was in Casa. And so he did like the bug move, like picking the bug up and like trying to put it on like the person he was talking to that he did in season six. And I'm like, you're like, wait, is that just his move?

And you're like, he just likes bugs. But that may, I mean like that makes my brother is like, you know, average Joe does some tiling work. And he's got the oldest iPhone as well. And he's like, it works. I can call my wife. I can call my mom. But what's fascinating about Rob is even. I don't know what your brother would do,

but there are a lot of people who are kind of your average Joes who do get cast on these shows and then they change. Yeah. And not that it's a bad thing, but when their world opens up to all these different things and these opportunities, and maybe they had the iPhone 4 because, like, one, it worked, but also they couldn't afford to get another one.

And now they can and they start, you know. You're doing a deal with Apple. Sure. You know, but like to be in Rob's shoes and have his whole world flip upside down become this mega celebrity, at least right now, and still like stay grounded as a really fascinating element to him.

But I think it's because, like, he, after season six, like he was going on all these brand trips, he was doing shots, like, in clubs with people, and he just hated it. He hated, like, the person who he was there, and he just, like, felt very, it was, like, depersonalizing. He's like, that's not me. I don't like that.

And so, like, he went back to Alabama. And so it's like, yeah, he'll leave and go make money. But then he's back on the farm, like, looking for snakes, hanging out with his grandpa. I love that for him. Did you get to meet his dad? I did not.

Because dad's hot, too. It's a hot family. I'm so curious. Okay, so I, at first when we saw Zach, I was like, oh, we got Charlie Jr. Like, I don't like this. I love Zach. He's a little freak. I love him.

He is a little freak. I also love it because, like, as someone who comes from a family of 10 siblings, you know, you've seen this with Love Island. cast. They release the cast photos. Everyone's up in their Instagram. They're following their families. You know, like I have 10 brothers and sisters. We're very different. And like I feel like the world will oversimplify, you know, your family members and what they like and what they stand for. And you really can't get to know someone by who their sibling is. And this is a much more simpler example of that with Charlie and Zach where like they look like each other. They come from the same

family. But different personalities, you know, like different vibes. Charlie seemed to be like a more nice, easy going, good looking, but for whatever reason, the women last year didn't really vibe with them. But Charlie seems to be a guy that a lot of the women are into. And he clearly has a different vibe than Charlie,

which is fascinating because they are brothers. I mean, if that baddie kid is going for him, then you know he's got something. You also interviewed Charlie XX for this book? I did. I did a cover story on her for Vanity Fair. And, yeah, we were just, I was like, oh, like, you know, I don't, I think I just mentioned that I was writing the book. And she's like,

oh, like, I watch Love Island. I love Love Island. And I was like, oh, like, why do you like it? And she's like, it's just so fascinating watching people be so mundane. And then she was all, we were talking about the moment that she was in because it was right after Brat. And I was like, well, how do you feel knowing that this moment isn't going to last forever? And she was like, it's like Love Island. Like, it's special because you know it won't last forever. Like, that's what's interesting about it. I love that take. Yeah. What did you learn production-wise, like with this filming in such real time?

Like, how are they able to do that? So they have this thing called the control room, and it's all the live streams of all the cameras. There are different number of cameras in the U.K. and the U.S., but it's, you know, like, 70, 80, like around there. And so it's just like all in a board. And then there are different editors who are watching the footage. and there's like a story editor who's kind of standing around sort of being like, hey, what's that? What was that look?

And then the editors are like quickly putting together like these edits or like they'll zoom in on somebody. And so like in real time they're like, is this a story? Is this a story? And like it could not be anything. But like over the course of a day, you see like, okay, that was a thing and that wasn't a thing. And then they have this big whiteboard. And they keep track.

It's like A story, B story C story. And so like the story plays out. And then like once it's done, they erase it. Like, and it just like keeps going until the, the end of the season and the whole board is blank. But it's just like it's all happening on the fly. And like that's why sometimes like things will happen and you're sort of like, oh my gosh, like they're making a big deal about this. It's something. But they obviously don't know how it's going to end. So it could just be something we never hear about again. I actually learned this last week because like,

you know, with with so many shows, they film it. They have a down period. They edit it. then sometimes we're lucky enough to get screeners often to talk about and I was like how can we get some screeners for lovali is there any way you can get like get them early and I because it moves so fast they have like this some kind of live stream that executives at peacock will be able to watch while it's like being edited in real time so like by the time it gets out they're not even really watching there's not there's not even really a screener there's like a live edit that they are watching and reviewing at the same time, which is also just fascinating because usually like they're, you have so many eyes on these things. There's so many notes. But like with Love Island,

they don't have the time to be that thorough. Not that it's not thorough, but it's just more. It's forced to be organic. Yeah. And that's what's so fun. It's so spontaneous. Like they're constantly like, well, first of all, they do have like a, there is like a morning rough cut. And then there's like an afternoon like slightly less rough cut. So they do. like sort of like see it but it's not you know it's not like exactly like what we're seeing um but yeah it's like they told me that so many times like because they ask everybody you know they're like who do you like who don't you like who are you vibing with like is there anybody besides for you know the person in your couple who you're into like who would you send home if like there were an elimination

so they have like a pretty good idea of like where people are at but they were like we make a plan for the next day based on what everyone tells us and then like we'll wake up in the morning and they'll be like, oh, like, you know, he doesn't like her anymore and now he likes her and they had a fight. And so they just just have like rip up their whole plan for the day because they have like challenges. They have like people who they were going to maybe like be like, why don't you talk? But they'll just be like, fuck, we got to start over. And they are filming. They have one off day, right? That they like go to a hotel. I feel like I've heard this before. They have an off day and then they also get lunch off. And so like they're separated by gender. They're still miced so that they make sure that they're not like,

talking about the show or their relationships, but they'll just talk about home and, you know, like what movies they like and, you know, they'll do glam and like the boys will play sports and they'll listen to music and like, it's like really wholesome. They keep them separate, the guys and girls? Okay, so it's completely separate.

For lunch. One thing I wanted to get your perspective on, there's a part in your book where you interviewed a producer and I think something to the effect that they refer to themselves as master manipulators, master manipulators, which I thought was interesting.

interesting because like I have this very kind of interesting relationship with producers. I know so much. And like I see both sides. I'm curious as someone who's covered it from a journalistic standpoint and as a fan standpoint. How did you receive that comment? And did it change your perspective on the authenticity of reality TV? So when he said field, he said field producers are master manipulators. So it's like the people like that he was an executive producer at that point. And like he's talking about the people. And like he's talking about the people. who are talking with the actual cast members. And it's like you said, Susie, like, sometimes people will make, like, you be like, oh, I don't have a choice, but, like, you always have a choice. And I feel like you shouldn't go on a show like this if you aren't comfortable making your own choices even, because like, you know, friend of the pod, Jeremiah, you know, he said, like, sometimes they would encourage him, like, why don't you go kiss her? Like, why don't you go do this?

And if he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't do it. If he did want to do it, you know, he would. but they just want to keep people from sitting around on the couches and like just chit-chatting. They're just doing their job. Yeah. The show would be really boring if there weren't anyone sparing them to action. And honestly, like some of the things that we think of as like being like manipulative or like harmful. Like Serena and Cordell, right?

Like the true love story of season six, one of the true love stories. Still together. Still together. But it's like, you know, that was torment for. Serena. They put in a woman who was there. She had said she liked Cordell. She meets Cordell at Casa. They immediately get together. That was so painful for Serena. And they sent her the footage of, you know, Cordell and the woman like doing what looked like hooking up. And so like it was awful. But if that hadn't happened, then I don't think that Serena would have had the perspective to realize how much

she liked Cordell. And I think Cordell wouldn't have realized how deep Serena's feelings for him were. and he might have taken, not that she was an easy choice. Like she was a lovely woman who clearly was really into him. But like, I don't know that he would have stuck it out. Like in real life, would you stick it out if somebody kept kind of like blowing you off and being like, yeah, I don't know if I like you. You'd probably just move on. Right. But because you're in the villa and you literally have to live with these people 24 hours a day, it's like you learn to live with the consequences of your actions and how to move forward in conflict or peace.

Yeah. Well, there's also this element that I think. And it's funny because when I read that, I was like, oh, it makes sense that they say that, but I was surprised that a producer said that. Not only because it's not from a, oh, I can't believe they admitted to that, but I almost felt like they took a little bit,

almost like they undersold what they did a little bit because, and Susie knows this, and I've referenced this before, but like being on the Bachelorette, like when I was filming the second Bachelorette, I thought there is no way they're going to let me get this far again and have me be left at the altar so to speak. They wouldn't do this to me. I had so many, like, I'm not here to do this. I'm not here to be

this. And they did it, and they did it anyways. And not only did they did this, they like forced Caitlin. They wouldn't let her break up with me the way Andy broke up with me. They're like, you can't let him not have his moment. I'm thinking you're doing the worst thing possible for me. This is cruel in this moment. But the truth is, like, had they not made her do that and they not made me go through it, Like I had a really great moment. Maybe my best moment to that day where it was like I was vulnerable. I was really hurt. I would have never greenlit that on my own.

I would have been like, there's no way you're going to let me do that. But most reality TV stars don't realize. And I'm always telling them when they ask for my advice, your most vulnerable moment is your best moment. Like you can't fake that. And you would never choose to like be horrified. Like you would never choose to put yourself in that situation on your own because you can't see the forest through the trees. You don't know how this stuff work, but all these producers, they kind of understand the beats of the show. They understand what the audience wants and what

often feels like very cruel in the moment. And it might take you a couple of years to realize it, but like they, they in a weird way will have your best interest in mind, a la Cordell and Serena, you know, where it's just like you need to be forced into conflict in a way in a short period of time so you can figure out how you're going to like respond to that conflict. And how we respond to that conflict is what makes us all fall in love with these people or, you know, not fall in love with them. And that's what we, that creates all the discourse. But it's like, it's one of those very complicated things as a fan to understand and as a reality TV star, like the intentions of these producers. Like, even though they put us in these situations, it's not

because they're cruel or they like, they don't wish us the, the best, but they are trying to like do their job and, and create good TV. And it, it is a constant balancing act. of like what is the line of pushing these people too far versus like encouraging them get to a place that we know they're capable of. Sometimes like you said, when you screw up, like how you handle that, how you make amends, how you grow from that, like, because there are people in the show who have never even been in relationships, let alone never dealt with a breakup. There are people who have like only broken up with people by ghosting them.

There are people like people, I talk to people who are like, I didn't even understand what empathy was. And like you watch them develop like they become sentient. They like realize, oh, other people have feelings that are different from my own and my actions impact them. And like, I don't want to hurt other people and like I need to move through the world more sensitively. But they wouldn't learn that if they didn't make a mistake in the first place. Right. I kind of love that. I think we talk about a lot of reality TV and even with like the Valley and stuff like that. I feel like some things have come up recently where it's like sometimes it takes watching yourself. back and as horrible as it is in the moment to have people perceive you whether or not that's

your intention it is kind of a beautiful way to like to grow and it's interesting because they're not seeing our reaction in real time but they're obviously living in a villa amongst other people and like that conversation with bea and um Melanie and stuff like in real time we saw somebody I think grow in that moment well the hard part is and it kind of reminded me of that moment with Melanie because like I and we'll get into obviously that conversation but like Melanie's reaction just reminded me of any time I've gotten called out by a friend or someone where they're like I didn't want to admit it but it felt like there was some like some truth you know and like usually when you have like I can't believe that happened and you said that to me like it's usually rooted in

like you're calling me out you're calling me out you know and it's it's a very like difficult thing and then like in the broader scheme of things in reality TV what's different difficult is like, you know, if you, if people like will ask me like, you know, what do you think if you're edit, your time and, you know, there's, they're both true. Like, on one end, when I, you know, if someone were to watch my first couple seasons of the best ride, I'm like, that is, this is not me, you know, like, you can't, like, that's not who I am. But like, if I'm being really honest, that, that's part of who I am. Like, I've, I can beat all those things, you know. And like, and there's that hard. And when fans start talking about some of those,

things it feels inauthentic but also like I guess that's kind of fair but like it also it just feels incomplete you know where people like don't know well yeah I'm this but I also have these other sides of me too that you didn't get to see and then you find yourself wanting to like I've had a lot of conversations in my head with fans like by myself you know trying to explain myself you know like explain the nuance of yourself yeah which is very difficult but it's also like you you talk to any reality for producer I was talking to a bravo employee And they're talking about the Bravo characters. And they're like, every person I meet,

who they are in person is who I see on the show. Because they're kind of seeing those glimpses. And if you ask a reality TV star that, they're probably going to say, no, that's just my TV version. And they're in a way both true. I mean, yeah. Like Love Island is filmed, like we said, 24 hours a day.

They're like, you know, between 10 and sometimes, I mean, last season, there were, I think, 20 people in the house after Casa. So it's like, yeah. It's crazy. It's like your, and the episodes are about an hour. Yesterday was an hour of 20. But, you know, you're not going to get the full context of the person's life.

But even like, it's so funny. It's like anybody, any civilian, it's like, even if you have a really close friend, it's like the way you see them isn't exactly the way they see themselves. Yeah. Right. Like, what did you make of, I guess it's. was last season where it felt very responsive to the audience. And it felt very like, we're saying this on Twitter and then, oh, we'd see that. And the producers are reading Reddit, you know.

Yeah. Well, they literally are. They told me. Oh, wow. Yeah, they're all over it. Yeah. They're very tuned into what's going on. And if you looked at the app, like, they do the polls, even when there aren't dumpings. And they were like, is there too much kissing? Like, yes, we're reading the comments. Oh, interesting. And it's like, you'll notice there wasn't a lot of kissing yesterday. Right. Yeah. Because it opened up kind of raunchy this season a little bit. It was too much.

It was too much. Yeah. We opened up the show and I was saying how the threesome vibe, I'm like, this is so uncomfortable. It was so weird. Why couldn't we put two beds in there? Three beds. Three beds. I mean, like, I get that it's not, you know, but it just, like you just meet these people and then it's, it just, they're like making out of the bed with each other.

It all just felt so weird. It's a bit waiting outside. It feels like, it does. Just sit on this bitch out front. Let them meet. Let them talk. It felt forced. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, UK is doing that. Like, UK is really back to basics. And it's like they're really like putting the people in the villa and just sort of seeing what happens. It's such a different vibe. So it's like such a slower burn. And then in the U.S. It felt like we got shot out of a cannon this season.

But I feel like they did that because the first few episodes can be a little boring because you're like, I don't know them. And they don't know each other. So there's no conflict that's super interesting. It's conflict about like, oh, I didn't, like, you're talking to the same person I like, but I don't even know you. So what do you owe me? And then I feel like now they're pumping the brakes. And now we're getting to see them as like human beings, except for Gabrielle, who we still haven't heard.

Everyone on Twitter is like, he is, he like doesn't even know this is being done. Yeah. He's just there to fuck. He's just there to like make out. He's just really horny. Well, just one thing I didn't like love producer. is like that was the second episode like it almost was given like bachelor date like why did they leave the villa it was like and they were like walk you know when they had their little like threesomes

and they went like from and it was like a forced two-on-ones all of a sudden and it was like wait why why are we trying to mimic the bachelor everyone out there is mimicking love island these days you know bachelor in paradise that revamp was like the really really bad version of love island No offense. I saw myself out. She was there for a few seconds. But I thought that was just kind of weird. And I didn't love, because there's something about, to your point, like Love Island,

there's something about the villa that is nostalgic in a way that we're like, we're back, you know, we're in the villa. And I was telling us to Nalli, you know what I love about Love Island that makes it so, like, there's something about the men bringing the women breakfast that feels so like wholesome and all of it. Like, just like, it's like summer camp. Or just like when Sean left it felt like, young love where you just meet someone and you want to make them breakfast in bed and you don't really know them. But you're like, it's like house.

Yeah. It feels like that. They're playing house. They're playing house. Yeah. The breakfast in bed or the cocoa puffs in bed. Right. It's like what the expectation is already there that you're going to make me breakfast.

You're going to know how I like my coffee. Like that was like one of the first conversations. I forget who it was. But they were like, they are asking what do you like for breakfast? And I was like, that's like, I wouldn't expect someone to make me breakfast right away. It almost means more when you don't have the expectation and someone does it, you know? What did you learn, Anna? I mean, it's one of those things.

Like, there are these sort of like unofficial villa rules where it's like, you know, like sincere broke this rule where it's like don't pull someone for a chat if you're in a couple without telling the person, you know. Right, right. It's like there are just these sort of like unspoken rules that everybody knows. Or it's like, don't go to the terrace with somebody if you're in a couple and like you like the person you're going to the terrace with. And so one of the unspoken rules, and so for the first few seasons of UK, it was such a wild free-for-all. First season, they were drinking, they were smoking. Like, people were literally drunk on camera. It was so wild.

And it was so misogynistic. Like, it was so wild. Like, people were like, they'd be like, well, you gave me a hand job. Like, it was, like, it was really ugly. Oh. And so, like, as the show got more popular, I would say, like, season three to season five, like, they were, like, okay, first of all, they started doing training. So it's like now they train them for like microaggressions.

They train them for like misogyny. They train them for ableism. Like prior to filming. They're giving a little crash course on. How you a human department? Yeah. Truly. They even train them like, they're like, okay, there are going to be like 12 people in

the villa. There are two bathrooms. Like here's how you're going to handle like the bathroom situation. Because like imagine. Everyone's having their coffee in the morning. Disaster. High last. pile up. So it's like by like, but also by like, like, once the show was really hitting in the UK and it was a really big show, like people started getting the feedback and they're like, oh, like people respond well when I treat women nicely. So it started being this like positive feedback loop. And now it's just like something you have to do. You really do. Yeah. What did the producer say about just like respond? I mean, did you ask them about whether they should be so responsive to audiences? Because it was a critique of fans.

last year that it felt like, well, you're giving us too much power or you're listening to the wrong people. Yeah. In a way that, it felt a little frustrating for us. And at the same time, it was like, we wanted Nick and Alandria, but then it also felt like you forced it upon us

at the same time. They're still together. So, I mean, who else is? It's like, you know, so it's like, we wanted it. They gave it to us, but they couldn't make Nick and a Landry. get together. Nick and Landrieu got together because they wanted to get together and they're still

together. But also this season, like, I was looking at the polls and like people wanted Melanie to go home after her crash out and people did not want Sean to go home. And so it's like they're taking it in. They did listen to us when we said less kissing. Yeah. Please. Stop kissing. Yeah. Please. Keep Gabriel's tongue in his mouth. When I see that thing, I jump. It's so much. But like they're not, they don't just like do. what we say. It's like they take it in and then they also adjust how they're producing it. So it's like, I think that I was thinking a lot about Huda. I think a lot of people were when we saw like Melanie kind of like spiraling, not in yesterday's episode the day before. And it's just like Huda is a person

with a really strong sense of self, even if that sense isn't always how others see her. But like she's so certain of who Huda is that like she can crash out and then she can like crash back. And like with Melanie, she seems to be like a very sensitive person. And so like it looked to me and producers say this. It's like if somebody is like really not doing well, like cast members have said they'll let you hide in the beach out, which is where you do like the in the moment interviews. Or they'll, you know, they'll let you say in bed for a while or they'll like talk to you or they'll send you to the psych department. But like they don't want people who don't have the resiliency to crash out and crash out and crash out to keep doing. doing that. That's not what they want. So to me, it felt like they did what producers do. There's

conflict. There's resolution. And so it's like they encouraged resolution between Beah and Melanie. And I think we got that. And I think that that was a really moving moment. That was really great. Before we actually get in the show, a couple of things I wanted to ask you about before we dive in. One, a lot of fans have a lot of questions and frustrations with the screening process of cast members. Did you have any conversations with producers about how they cast these people on the show and the challenges they face every year with like we've already had it this season where you know we've we saw cast photos and then we didn't see cast because things were discovered how do you you know I have my reasons why it's so hard to find these things but I'm curious

what what you heard from production itself so they start casting months and months before and the final lineup isn't settled until days before they start filming it goes until the very last minute and They have this big board, and it's with, like, different series of 10 islanders and who they think could be, like, a great original lineup. And so, you know, now more than 100,000 people are applying to the show. Most people who are on the show are not applicants. Most of the people who are on the show are people who have been recruited. They've scouted. Yeah, exactly.

Like, they can be recommended through another islander. A lot of times they're sliding into DMs. Jeremiah was an ad that the showrunner saw, you know, looking incredibly handsome. But yeah, they're found, like, they go to boat parties. But they're like really, especially after last year, they like normal people. The casting director told me that, like, they're like, we just want like someone who like works at Sephora and happens to be gorgeous. And they're like, they did say they're like, we would love, they love like regional accents. They're like, we would love a Boston Rob. Like that's our dream. We still haven't found him yet. But, you know, they want people who are like not. Typical islanders always. Like I would say Taylor last season is not like a typical islander. He's still in vet school. He's like, you know, he definitely has a regional accent.

But yeah, they talk to them about like what their dating history is. They ask who they're attracted to. They ask like who from the previous casts they're attracted to. Everyone says, I'm like, all the women walk again. He's so gorgeous. But yeah, then they also look at who they've actually dated because a lot of times people say like, oh, I'm open to dating anybody. And like, historically, that has not gone well. Like, because people, you know, have, like, biases that maybe they're not even aware of. And so, like,

in early seasons of UK, Islanders of color and Black Islanders were not being picked in the original lineup. And so they have to see, like, okay, like, have you actually dated people, like, of other races? So they do all that. And they kind of go up through layers. So it's, like, casting team, then it's the producers, then it's the executives. and all the while they're on this board, and then they're going through all these checks. They're going through this, like, psychological evaluation. There's, like, a 500-questioned test,

and then there's a verbal section. Obviously, you're getting STD medical tests. There's a background check that doesn't always catch, you know, like if you said something in a story or if there's something on a private account or maybe if you said something on a podcast. Yeah, it seems like when Islanders get casted, basically everyone who's ever known that person goes into their phone.

and I don't even think it's a bunch of people I was talking about this with Natalie. I don't think it's like something happened and someone's like saving this for the day they can ruin someone's life. I think it's just more the biggest show in the world is announced the cast and then people are like, oh my God,

I went to high school with that person and they kind of go through their phone and I think it's like, oh. Oh, I got this. And then they release it to the while. I honestly think it's more like that than people are holding on to like. They remember they have a video of this random person they went to isolate with.

People just like go into their phones and then find these things that, you know. So that makes me wonder, should they try and get casting done a little bit earlier so they can put that out there and then kind of let the audience finish the vetting for them? I think that's what Bachelor started doing a few years back. I know they did that as a reason because they knew they couldn't possibly have access to everyone's phone in the world. And it helped them out a couple times. Yeah. I mean, we'll see. But it's, yeah, they do really, I think, try really hard.

They don't want anybody to have a bad experience. They don't, like, you know, there are shows where sometimes they will put people in bad positions because they think it'll be interesting. Like, I remember on Rachel Lindsay season, it's like there was a guy who like had, like, racist views. So it's like to put her in a position like that. I don't think the Love Island team wants that to happen. What was something that you learned that now watching it as a fan, you see it a little differently? Oh my gosh. I was convinced.

So after Huda and Jeremiah broke up, I was like, okay, like the islanders don't want her there. The fans don't want her there. That was what was happening in my mind. So I was like, so the producers have to figure out a way, like, how do we get her out of the villa? So they did two votes within the villa where the islanders were able to eliminate her if they wanted. And they didn't do it either time. And then they opened it up to the audience. And there was an audience dumping.

And we didn't vote to eliminate her. And then after that, I was like, oh, they like set her up on a redemption arc, which I totally got on board with. I wound up voting for her twice. Like I would not say that. Voting to eliminate her or to keep her? No, to keep her. To keep her. Like, I know.

Wild. But I don't know, I really believed in it. And I was like, oh, so you set her up to do that because you're like, we can't keep her here and have her still be problematic. We have to give her, because it could be the greatest redemption arc in the history of Love Island if you do it. And they were like, no, we never ever hinge the show on one person, even if they're incredibly popular with a group of fans because anything could happen. What if she got eliminated because something came out about her? What if she decided to go home? What if she really was at the bottom of a vote and they just had to dump her?

Like it's like you can't, it's an ensemble cast. So if anybody becomes too important, then the show could would fall apart if you don't have them anymore. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What do you think that kind of means with the way they edit the show, right? Because it is this live functioning kind of like organism of when you have someone that you could potentially get someone like Melanie, for example. example in this like what was it it was two episodes ago where she had her crash out and then yeah give me 10 it was awesome um but with something like that of like if they had had the entire season already shot that might have not gotten edited exactly the way that that was going to because they know Melanie's going to

like Melanie is one of their heroes right they can't map out a whole like arc yeah so then you get this edit of Melanie because they're going to just go with what is happening. happening in the moment versus this like predisposed like assumption of what that character is going to be in their arcs already. So it's like it seems uneven sometimes. That's the magic of yeah, Love Island is that it's so like ephemeral and so spontaneous and things change all the time and like your your allegiances change all the time based on like what they actually do and who they like and what the people they like are doing. And like, I don't know, like the permutations, you know, it's funny.

Like one of the people who they were like, oh, everyone's going to love Ace. The producers were like so sure that like Ace was like they thought that Ace and Zach were going to be like two like the two big stars of the men. And like they were like, we're really surprised that people wound up really not liking Ace. I'm curious what they thought about that because I, to me, Ace just felt like someone who almost like against everything you said the producers are looking for. He had, I think, a million followers coming in.

He was just, he was already a creator, you know, and he understood this world. You felt like he understood this world while watching a Love Island. And that just kind of read as inauthentic because it was like, he knows, like he knows how this works. And it felt

like he, you know, he we said this. He was kind of controlling, it felt like he was controlling the villa. It felt like he was, he had almost too much power because there was clearly a comfortability that he had with this environment that, you know,

is not, doesn't make great reality TV because like that's why, you know, producers, well, you know, like you guys aren't actors.

We're not paying you to be actors. And like sometimes, you know, producers will criticize for like surprising characters where it's just like, I can't believe you like, you know,

you put me in this position. They're like, well, we didn't tell you because we didn't want you anticipated. We wanted to see your authentic reaction,

which there's, there's some truth to it and there is that juggling act. So I'm just kind of surprised they thought that, knowing that they're always looking for the most authentic people. Not that I'm saying Ace wasn't an authentic. He just, like, he knew too much in a way. I'm going to go to bat for Ace. So, like, I think that is who Ace authentically is.

And I think if you look at the way he moved, it's like, I don't think he like and Jeremiah were the closest. He was the closest with Nick and Taylor. and like if you were in the villa and you were thinking like, okay, who do I want to stay after this vote? You would pick the people you were closest to and you would try and make that happen. You wouldn't be like, well, like, Jeremiah deserves it the most or like, oh, well, will people think I'm being manipulative? You know, that's where it starts to get like, okay, if you're like double thinking yourself and being like, oh, well, will this come across this way? I don't think Ace was like really thinking about how it would come across.

I think he was like, this is what I want to happen. And then like when he was encouraging Taylor to stay with Alandria, it's like, well, Taylor's not going to stay in the villa if he doesn't have a partner. So it's like stick around. Maybe as someone you like better will come through. What did you learn, if anything, about the world finding out that Ace and Shelley had interacted on social media and had met before and like hating that? What did you learn about that? It's a small world. It's like in season five of UK, like, um, k.

artist had DM'd Mora before the show. He was on Dancing with the Stars, Ireland. He was like a dance pro. And she was just like a local like monster energy spokesperson. Early days for her. But like I don't think it's that crazy that like really hot people who are in proximity might like have like been at the same part. Like they don't think they knew each other. I really don't. Before we get into the show, one more thing I wanted to ask you about so much conversations about the mental health. of cast members and just kind of the aftercare, so to speak, of what the show does now to what they used to do before. Certainly, I remember back in my day, there was hardly any, I mean, they had a therapist travel, and it was like, can we talk to therapists, or like, no. It wasn't no, it was like later.

But yeah, it wasn't very accessible. And the conversations we used to get, or the people who would check in on us were just producers back in the day, which was helpful. But, you know, I went on special force, as a couple years ago. And even that was like they would, you know, four months later they would call and check in.

I'm like, no, I'm fine. I'm totally good. But it was, I felt even on that show, which is different than Love Island or The Bachelor, there's kind of the mental, you know, just manipulation that you do have to go through. What did you find out? What has changed between what,

how things used to be done on these shows to what is being done now? Well, the first season, it was just like, of UK, certainly. It was just like a little bit of, of a free-for-all. Like, they always had a duty of care. The duty of care is something that every show has to protect the well-being and safety of the participants. But, like, it can be dependent on a network, or it can be dependent on the production company. Like, at Netflix, not every Netflix show has the same duty of care. It depends on who's making the show. So at the beginning, it was just sort of like,

there was a psych team. There always has been, but, you know, they were too busy, like, getting drunk and, like, having sex on camera to, like, avail themselves of the, like, resources that's they had for their mental health. And then really after the first two cast members died by suicide, they were like, we have to totally overhaul this. And so then it started being like they would really proactively, like if somebody was having a hard time, like at all, they would be like, why don't you go see this like? Like take some time, like please, you know, sending them away. And then everybody gets eight mandatory sessions after they leave, but you get it longer. And the producers will keep checking in on you after you leave the show. Like they'll call

and just be like, how are you doing? It's just much more proactive and like there haven't been any, I mean, I feel like we're so lucky that like in the U.S., like nothing terrible has like happened. But it is a different system. So in the U.K., 40% of people who apply are weeded out during the psychological evaluation. And I don't know what the numbers are in the U.S. I didn't share them, but like I wonder if it's that high. because 40% seems really high to me, although it seems like, that's like, seems like a good number. Yeah, I mean, I remember my psych test for the bachelor. It was a lot of like, how stable are you, you know? Do you ever think about this when this happens? It was a lot of that. So I think the goal is to reveal like just how emotional, like, resilient are you

and just like how sensitive you are in these difficult situations. But yeah, it's, I, the biggest thing I remember thinking is just like, you know, producers, they know how the show works and certainly they're good for advice, but one thing that producers could never relate to is what it's like to go out of these experiences and interact with fans. Producers never were, you know,

they didn't have fans, they didn't have critics, didn't have social media accounts, and they really couldn't talk to us about how to kind of immerse ourselves back into the real world in a way that felt relatable. And I'm just wondering if they, you've got to say, sense that that's different now. Well, they include Islanders in the duty of care. So like before you go in,

you hear from actual Islanders about what it's like. They also prepare them for the social media stuff. Like, as you know, they've stopped doing the proxy system in the U.S. for social media, like while they're in there and giving the accounts over to people. They stopped doing that in the UK a few years ago because they're like, it's, it can be harmful for the people who are doing it, especially if it is somebody who's actually just a friend or a family member and not like someone you've hired. basically. But yeah, they want them to know and they're like, and they tell them it's like, you're not going to be Leah probably, you know, in U.S. or like you're not going to be Molly May like in the UK. It's just like that's not going to happen for most. So rare. Yeah. Because people think

I think when people go in, they're like, well, like probably nothing will happen, but if something happens, it'll be good. No one's going in being like, well, this could really derail my life in a way that I'm not expecting. Well, it's a nice transition because if you're, Sean, who is the first dumping of Love Island, here's a guy who we now know, like, left his job. He's a police officer. And that, you know, that's a story as old as time with cast members. Like there's this, like, you get, you know, you get this opportunity to go on the biggest show on TV. And, you know, 10 years ago, you went on reality TV.

There was like, oh, I might be, I get to be on TV. It's fun. But there was no, like, playbook. There was no, like, oh, I get, this is my lottery ticket, you know. And I always say, like, it's, you know, being on these reality TV shows, it's a lottery ticket with really great odds, but it's not a guarantee. You could become a major celebrity and your next 10 years or more are like set. Or you could be a Sean where you have all these expectations. You quit your job. You left your job. And he's going to come out and he's going to want to have all these experiences. And it will be a difficult challenge for him to like have people invested in him in a way. that like he's going to watch all these other people, people he got to know, their lives are going to change in a way that his probably won't.

And he's going to have to emotionally deal with that, which is going to be a real struggle. Counterpoint Bella got to be on Beyond the Villa. She was the first one, like out of the villa, I think, right? She was, yeah. So it's like, you know, there could be more light. You do you never know. You could be grocery store Joe.

Yeah. You could be, I mean, it was a dream. Dared a dream. He probably doesn't even know that the mayor, of his, you know, like, he probably knows now. When you leave the villa, they, like, you get, like, a minute. They're like, this is what's been happening in the world since you've been out of it, the world. They'll literally tell you, like, news stuff.

Like, when Rob got out, he was like, they were like, President Trump was shot and Love Island's number one show. And he was like, okay. And then they're like, here's your iPhone 4. And it's like, and here's what everyone was saying about you. They give you, like, a fast forward version, although Sean's would be pretty short. But think about, like, like, Jeremiah who was there for a very short period of two weeks something like that I don't even think even and like you know people some people were against him and accused you know just fans were accusing him of love bombing and all

that kind of stuff and then he left he's really made like a go of it um and he also like got to watch and have the perspective I think to deal with it like most like he had the opposite experience of Sierra Sierra went in the whole part where everybody loved her was when she was in the villa and she left to just she didn't get to enjoy any of it she left to just like everyone hating her. Jeremiah got to leave and everyone had a lot of like goodwill toward him and he got to experience

that while the show was going on. That's interesting. Yeah. So what are you feeling about this season? Because another thing that's, you know, you know, when these new seasons come out now that we've have six being a hit, seven was another hit.

Now there's just this pressure not only with production but even us fans, it's like, is it going to be as good? And I think the challenge we all have as fans is like, and the show has, is like, we fall in love with these characters. And I don't think we realize just how fast it moves. Like, for example, like last season, Amaya fan favorite, won the show. This time last year, Maya's not, she's not in the villa yet. You know, we don't know so many of the people who are about to come on the show that we're

going to fall in love with. We always act like, oh, the main cast is the only people. people we care about. And yet there's there's so much left to unfold this season. And I think that's like right now that that's why the, the quick response when you see the Melanie crash out is to like, all right, who does she remind us of? Okay, last season, Huda was a big crash out person. Okay, Huda now reminds us. Melanie now reminds us of Huda. It's like oversimplified in a way. But that all being said, how are you feeling about season as we enter into this season? And even though it is early and so much left is left to like, happen. How are you feeling things are kicking off of season eight? Ben Thursby Palmer, who is the showrunner and came from the X Factor, literally one of people who put one direction together. He's just an amazing producer and so calm and steady and authoritative. And Islanders have told me it's like I felt like he was looking out for me. And like I really, he does seem like a person with like a really good moral compass. Like,

I don't know. That's not maybe necessarily the first thing you think you're like, oh, reality TV producer. Like, but I really. think he does, but he also picks something different every season to focus on. And so, like, every season is different. And so season six was this, like, really intimate portrait of, like, friendship I felt like and unfolded in this very, I mean, I hate to say organic way, because, like, of course, the whole time the producers are flicking the dominoes and making things happen. But then season seven was really a spectacle. And I think season eight, the way that they cast it, to me, feels much more, they feel, I mean, they're all absurdly good looking, you know, but they feel more

like Normies to me. Like, I think Bryce has the most followers and it's like 150,000. Most people just have like a couple thousand going in. They're just kind of like normal hot people. And I think that that is more interesting. And I feel like, like I said, it's sort of like, we started out like on a rocket ship because like it's like, okay, well, what are we going to do? And now it's just, just slowed down and we can get to know them. And like we could get to see Baya open up a little bit. And we can get to like God willing hear Gabrielle talk, you know. Yeah. Who's being your favorite so far? I mean, I love Beya. I, you know, I think like, I didn't love that she kept saying that she wanted to correct Melanie's behavior. But I think that when she got the feedback where it's like that was like upsetting to me and the way you delivered it, like wasn't like the way that I

could hear the information. She was like, I hear that. And like, I loved hearing her talk about, like, how she puts up this front, this kind of tough front. And, you know, it's like she's an athlete. Like, she has a disability. And it's like, she's gone through a lot. And like, I love that she's now being a little bit more vulnerable. Yeah. First episode, she wasn't my favorite, but I really have, I really enjoy her. Because I just like how, you know, I mean, everyone has their opinion about the, the, the, the Melanie and, and Bay of it all. But, like, she's, seemed like what I appreciate about her her goal seemed to be resolved you know and she didn't seem and while obviously Melanie reacted the way she did and she didn't totally appreciate the way

they handled it it didn't seem like it seemed it seemed grounded and and trying to like just talk to her what you know her friend Melanie and obviously it didn't land the way she had hoped but it seemed I just liked the way the perspective she was coming from and she seemed really I guess just grounded in the energy that I really appreciated. Like you could hear her out. I think I felt that in her conversation with Kenzie. And I love Kenzie. I love it Kenzie who's like, I'm so beach.

She's Barbie. It's just like I love how she's always doing splits just like Barbie. Yeah. She literally just a little bit of his hips. But like I felt like to have a conversation like that you have to be in a conversation with somebody you are close. that way with and who like can accept and does want feedback like you like that from you and I don't know maybe it was just the group setting or whatever but I think Bay is a really sensible like kind sensible I think that's a good one yeah yeah but also so funny I was dying oh my god when she was

talking to Sean about country music she's like I'd rather be deaf than yeah she just seems I think what's nice about this cast of Love Island this season is that maybe it was maybe it was maybe Maybe it was like the ace thing of, because I was kind of more on like Nick's side with the, just his personality just read to me as like he knew what he was doing a little bit too much. Just like being aware. And I really like with these people that they just seem like normal. They seem like normies. And that's what I want in Love Island.

And they, it's not as toxic. Yeah. As the first season was up front. Yeah. And I think Susie was talking to me about this earlier. You were saying you didn't like it because it wasn't as toxic. and I was going to tell you that I was like, I feel like once we get more into the season,

the toxicity is going to come, but it's going to be better because they're normal people. Slower burn and it's like real shit is going to come out because they like see the best in each other first. That has a great point. When you have too much of that early on, it feels almost, it's chaotic. They're using like therapy speak instead of actually hating each other.

Or you're just kind of reacting for the sake of reacting, but yes, you're right. The goal is these people will get to know each other. other they'll develop these kind of interpersonal relationships we all know that time slows down to like this crazy halt and so what what feels what feels what is a week feels like months and then the bomb shells more bombshells come in and then they you know these these bonds you know you have sincere and melany day two being like kind of trying to like grapple with like okay we're not closed off but we are in a connection and what is that and what are the rules of how do we make

move and they don't even know each other, but they're also speaking to each other. Like, you know, you're hearing sincere to say the word we have, we're connected. Yeah, like the watching them be able to break it down this way does make it feel very human because it feels like they're trying to figure out what it is along with like the rest of us. And sincere, yeah, being like, it's strange because, you know, we say like we're in a couple, but also like just met you. Yeah. But then you're trying to talk to other people.

and then do you have to let your couple, you know, it's so interesting. Because like think about season six, the reason why we were so upset with Cordell. Cordell is because like by the time they went, they separated, we were, we loved those two together. And they felt like they had the makings of something meaningful and then they broke it apart. But she did during sticker twist, which was right before Casa, she twisted. Right. So it was one last thing where he's, it was like putting a shard of doubt in. his heart and he was like, ooh, is she going to twist away and I'm going to be like alone at

Casa waiting for her and she's going to be with a new man. So it's like they're always so good at like but it's great because like think about last season with Huda and Jeremiah it was like too toxic too fast and everyone's like they should just not. You know this is crazy. And with like Cordell and Serena it was like you know it's there's the ups and down and it's very relatable and it hurts more when those relationships get broken up as opposed to when it's like a Jeremiah or Huda and you're just like, I, I remember that relationship. I was 18. I'm glad we didn't end up together.

And like, you see, like, the young love with Jeremiah and Huda and with Cordell and Serena, you felt like you saw the makings of, you know, like, you know, now that I've talked about before, you know, when we met, you know, the first nine months was a lot of like, I don't know, back and forth, very confused. I don't know if it's going to work. I'm scared, you know, like, what are people going to say, yada, yada. And in that time, we were just developing feelings and it just, it changes things. I do want to go back to something Natalie said, because you were saying that like sincere and Mellie negotiating the terms of their relationship and kind of just like how they were going to approach things is like, I feel like one of the ways that Love Island sneaky makes the relationships develop.

Because like in the real world, you don't like you're dating somebody, but you're not necessarily articulating to them like, okay, how are we going to move? Because you can't see each other. So it's sort of like you're operating independently, usually. And then also like they literally make you in the coupling ceremonies like articulate why you like the person. And I feel like it's so clarifying to have to think through like, okay, what do I actually like about them? What do they make me feel? And so like a lot of these kids haven't been in therapy before. And even just the act of being forced to think about how you really feel and say those words, I feel like is like. like that really moves things forward. Yeah, I feel like even like I'm 25 and I feel like in relationships. Like one of the biggest hurdles to get over with like dating is just like actually just being comfortable with telling a person how you feel. And I think what Love Island does and it's like, like, I'm not someone that's watching Love Island and it's like, I have a lot to take away from these people of how I can learn and grow. But watch like you're so right of like they are forced into the situation where like you have to you have to say it to a person's face and like be. put in this environment where that's normal and that's comfortable.

I imagine that's how you felt too. I mean, a lot of bachelor people you talked to, like coming, the thing I remember like when I was on it for the first time, a lot of my peers and us would say we miss the most was those confessionals because it was therapy. And for the first time, you felt like it was a safe space for someone to be like,

well, how does that make you feel? And you sat there and you were just like talking to these producers who like aren't therapists but got good at kind of asking and these types of question and getting you to explore and peel back layers. And it honestly, like, you know, the other side of it's like, this is going to be, this is filmed and they're going to cut it up

and who knows what it's going to look like. But when you're doing it and you're sitting it, it felt like it's just a really, you missed those moments. Like coming off the show, you like, I remember Chris Sol is telling me, he's like, I wish I could just go back and sit in that chair and just like talk to producers

because it was like, you know, I don't know if Chris is in therapy these days, but back in the day, 2014, none of us were doing that. And so it was definitely like this weird, I miss those moments for what it gave me and my ability to just talk about things in ways I've never done before.

It's really interesting hearing people, because some people go into the show and they have done therapy, but then some people are resistant to even using the mental health resources that they have during filming. But a lot of people told me, I still see my therapist from the show,

show or they'll say my therapist watched Love Island because they're like they get it. Yeah, you're not going to be able to understand it like until I, until you see it. I can't possibly articulate to you what I lived through. Right. What did you think of Corby? I felt like his kind of, when he went from Kenzie to Kada, it felt very just like 22, he's just kind of, he's just kind of trying to be a bombshell. Like she's like, do you remember our kiss? And he's like, why don't you remind me? Like, you know, I don't know.

I feel like that's what you say after this, right? I don't know. And he used the same, some one of the same lines on Kenzie right before. He said, like, almost the exact same thing about something. And I was like, ooh, like, we can watch this back. They're going to air that you said the same thing to two girls. But who was he talking to? Was it.

I was wondering, no, we'd the next morning. Well, because it honestly, what it felt like, it felt like an aha moment for Corbyn. because as a bombshell, again, you're the bomb shell. You hear the bombshells all being like, I'm a bombshell, I'm here to make friends, but I guess fuck shit up, whatever. And no doubt, when the bombshells enter the villa, they have producers being like, you know, why you're here.

You know, you're hot, you're good looking. They're all going to want to make out with you. You know, your whole universe is like, your universe shrinks. I was honestly thinking about this weekend. I was doing some writing. And then I was thinking about my time, you know, on the second season.

And my, you know, your world gets shrinks. You know, you don't have a phone. You don't have your friends. Your friends are producers and your cast members. Your cast members are all like, they're in survival mode. So you're really relying on these producers. And my last three days went from my whole world being like,

she loves you, this is great. You know, you're destined for this. Your whole world is, you know, and then she's telling me stuff. And then it, and then it went from, yeah, I'm picking someone else. And to like your whole world telling you this. And then that world changes and you have no access to talk to anyone about it.

Like there's no closure. And it's this kind of this crazy like bubble that you're living in. And it's, it's just kind of wild. But anyways, I was only bringing it up with Corbyn because he was, when he was saying, he had this like, yeah, I kind of reverted to my fuckboy ways. I think he said something like that. And it was kind of fascinating to see because no doubt he got told to do this and he did it. And then some of his cast members of the women called him out.

And he was like, you know what? maybe I can't move this way. And I think it was almost without blaming the producers kind of acknowledging, all right, I came as a bombshell, but this is not how I want to be known. I want to slow down. And now that I'm in the villa,

I don't want to just be the guy who's like making out with everyone. And I thought it was kind of an endearing moment. Like that quick transition from bombshell to like, oh, I'm here now. And I've done my job, but now I don't want to just be the guy who's like a womanizer and like kind of just.

I forget who it was that called it. They specifically said, oh, were you just trying to be a, like do what bombshells do? I forget who it was, but it was the next morning. And I saw that aha moment too. And I was like, wow, either I thought either he doesn't want to be known as this or he realizes that he didn't nail the landing. You know what I mean? And he's like, oh, that didn't work. Like, I was trying, I was coming in so hot.

And he's like, I'm literally getting called out for this. And he's kind of like, I'm going to have to rework the system that I came in here to like come in and just be this hot. like Andreina last year where she came in she didn't have to do she didn't have to say a word and everybody was like bow down yeah literally and it's like oh he didn't you didn't get that I mean yeah it was hot when he came in and sneaky made out with everybody but then when you had to like open your mouth and talk and get to know people you just relied on making out and they didn't want to but it moves so fast right it goes from him literally they're like make out with everyone yeah and then he comes in the villa and all the women were just fawning over him they were just he was sitting on the couch and they were all almost acting as if like we would have an organization right now, which is obviously not true. Right. But then it's like he almost, and that's what's crazy, how quick you can like distort your reality in that space where you have this like permission structure to be like, oh, they all want to fuck me.

And then you have like the guys over there shaking. And it's like it's okay. Like the permission structure for the bachelor of the bachelorette to just make out with people and it's somehow okay in that world. Yeah. And you quickly will buy into these rules. And then the cast members like, you know, those aren't the rules. And he had to, like, he had to change so quickly about how he moved because of like he went from being the bombshell to like trying to date.

And that was not what the women were like, no, we're just kind of playing along. But now if you're trying to actually get to know us, no, I don't want to just, you just made out with Kenzie. No, I'm, I'm good. Right. And it's, it's fascinating how fast the mentality of everyone changes so quickly in that world. Well, the thing about Love Island is that like, even though the game stays the same the whole time, You're trying to be the most popular couple and win $100,000. The games within the game change constantly.

The rules that the producers are playing, like how they play it, like that's always changing. So like I see why Corbyn, not only he's going in as a bombshell and they're like, you got to graft, but like the first few episodes, it was only making out. So he thinks he's going on the makeout show before bombshells come in. They watch episodes. So it's like, he's like, okay, great. Everyone's making out all the time. got it. And then he comes in and they're like,

we're not on that show anymore. This is like a new game. We heard the vote. People said it was too much. And he's like, wait, you guys were all making out. Our lips are chapsed, baby. Yeah. The games are really confusing.

Nali pointed out. I thought it was weird when Sean was like critiquing Kenzie. Him saying he was turned off at the moment that Kinsey wouldn't dance on Zach. It was like, I was like, I was a game. But it's also like, what do you mean? You're turned off that she doesn't want to dance on a guy. who like left her high and dry first night like why would that turn you off that should be like oh wow she respect yourself yeah it was so i thought that was so weird but it is as fascinating how they

they have very little information at the disposal and so they're so willing to just pull at anything i mean he did bring it to kensy's attention and i was honestly surprised that her reaction was like oh you thought i was a bitch like she took that as like oh you just thought that i was being mean to him and that's like your friend and you know, I'm not a bitch. I just didn't want to do that. But they were cool after. Like, she didn't take it. Yeah. Well, Sean's, like, the things that he had been, like, he was annoyed at Bayo when she went with Gabrielle. He was annoyed at Kenzie. Like, like, the sort of like beefs that he had kind of just like dissolved into vapor. And so it was sort of like, we're left with like, I guess he wants to like make out, which everyone does. But like, I don't know. I think maybe that's why at the end he was like, because I was a little bit surprised. I thought Bryce, might go home. You did? I did just because like he seems to have a lot of insecurity and I don't, I think that that can sometimes play well in the villa because it's being authentic, but it feels like

I don't know, like I'm worried for him. I just hope that this is a good experience. Yeah, I don't think he's he's along for the long haul. Because it seems like Trinity just like they had a friend, a friendship bond. Yeah. She had no reasons to save Sean and a couple to save Bryce. I thought that she might save Sean because like sometimes they'll keep someone because they'll be like well you have more potential connections in the house and like maybe you like throw kensie a bone i love trinity she's so cute she's so cute too yeah she really and who was saying that she had that doll face i'm like she really does have like the cutest face and demeanor and she's very like she's flying under the radar but yet you're still getting glimpses of her which makes you more curious about her and she seems

like she has a ton of like just partner potential like she's just like she's obviously beautiful she's just kind of like she's observant Even the way she pointed out to Beah like She was like I see both sides But also when you're not that close With someone like the way that you came at her

Like it felt like you were coming after her And you weren't coming from a genuine place Yeah Which I felt was such a good friend skills Just yeah just a great view on that whole Yeah send her somebody great that she can really connect with Because I would love to see her actually have a real connection What are the couples that we actually think might last?

I think Sincere and Melanie now, because I was like sort of like, oh, it's not going to work. He went for Kada and then Melanie, like, obviously, like, reacted poorly, you know, to the confrontation. But then I thought sincere was kind of done. I thought he was a little scared off. But then because the women had the vote, like what the show does is, like, sometimes it makes people like, and I know I just said that being insecure isn't a good thing. But I think like being insincere, sorry, insecure can make you a little bit vulnerable in a way where you're like, oh, like maybe I should get close to you. And I feel like he was really like nervous about Melanie. And I think that like that both of them had the moment of vulnerability and kind of came back to each other.

Well, yeah, it honestly reminds me of Bachelor in paradise in that way, right? Because like you don't, it's more, it's a power dynamic. Right. And so when you are, when you're on the gender that has the power, you know, it's just like, oh, you know, with Bachelor in Paradise, you would know the week of. It's just like, all right, men get the roses, you know, so all the men know that they're safe that week. And it's fascinating just how quickly they get kind of almost drunk with that power. Not, not, not, and forgetting that in four days, that's going to shift. And it's this really fascinating. And then once it shifts, you feel that power dynamic. completely change and I think that's kind of what you're speaking about on Love Island that is that like they can change the power dynamics so quickly and and until it changes it's it's fascinating how like comfortable they get knowing that they're safe for now because there's always like this feeling on in these shows where I just like I don't want to go home yet I'm not ready and so like when they when they get a

little bit of breathing room they like they don't stress out about it and then as soon as it changes you you feel that panic and with sincere you you I think that's true. You don't really know if he's, like, in it with Melanie. They've had some good conversations. I thought their last conversation they had was honestly like, okay, they worked through some stuff. Like, I thought Sincerra made a lot of sense where it was like, you know, he, in the best

possible gentlest way, he was just like, if you did that, it would just be a little different. And she was like, her received. And then they felt like they got on the same page and maybe there's a path forward. But I also don't know if it was like, I don't have. have any other options and I'm not ready to go yet. And it's and that what's the most challenging part in that environment? They also don't know. Do I really like this person or am I just competitive? Do I really like this person? Do I do do I not want to go home? And honestly, I don't think

they really know the answer. And it's it's it's it's it's that's kind of fascinating. But that space, even just opening the door a crack to like have yourself be vulnerable, I feel like once it's open, then it can become real. Like just because it starts out as a mechanism of the show doesn't mean that it can't like give you the space for a real feeling. And like that's kind of the magic of Love Island where it's like. Well, because again, all things move so fast. Right now, sincere and Melanie had a moment where they could say, this upset me. I want to tell you about it. The other person received it. That makes you just feel safe. When you have someone that you can work shit through and they're like kind of like,

all these people are coming in not having any friends. Not being able to call their person when they're stressed out to be like this happened to me they have none of that so the first thing they're trying to do and that's why you see all these friendships form so fast is to find those people they can open up to and so now Melanie and sincere have a little bit of that foundation so maybe that will actually help them you can also see the panic on Melanie's face after the Baya and she was kind of like scrambling up where to go to and she looked at Katea and she was like can I just talk to you like I need someone to talk to and Kate was like I don't know you you dunked me girl Absolutely not. And then she's just kind of like wandering and you could tell when she said like give me 10 minutes, she was obviously going to the confessional room. And it was like she just had no, she knew everywhere would have a camera. She knew everywhere would. And you could just see that panic on her face. I will say the conversation between Casey and Anaya was the most beautiful. The way that he spoke to her, it was so genuine. I hope that that's a conversation.

she remembers for the rest of her life because it felt so intentional and he just like you you just know that made her feel so special and so good yeah yeah it was so beautiful the only thing was like I loved the conversation so much and it felt like kind of the theme of this episode was insecurity and how do we respond to that and where is it coming from and I sort of wish that we had seen whatever anaya had said that prompted him to say that because I felt like she must have been expressing something about her it clearly resonated with her we saw like the after result when she was crying and like kissed him but i was like i wonder where this came from i wonder if it was Melanie choosing him in the challenge because you could see that she was like whoa like i did not

think she would choose casey and they have and he was like remember he's like grinding on and she was like oh we're grinding now like what is going on you know so i feel like maybe it stemmed a little bit from that because he kind of brought up Melanie in the conversation but her him being like an eye like you were the blueprint like that it was just but that's what it'll be interesting too going forward because they're they're probably the couple that I would say if I had to bet on a couple right now I would bet on them but again it is so early and here they had this conversation that felt deeply personal to both of them and they connected in a way that goes is far deeper than my type or you know whatever but again it's so early and so what like if if either of them you know and I would

say because it was because that was Casey opening up to Anaya in a way that made her feel seen and that felt that always that's like a real special moment in any relationship and if you related to Anaya in any way you're like you want to find a guy like Casey yeah and now if Casey meets a bombshell and moves that's gonna that's gonna all the Casey and Anaya fans that's gonna hurt because it felt like this this is not we this is more than they they're two beautiful people who think each other are hot and they had a conversation about like oh he makes me laugh you know

and it seems rooted in something super meaningful and it will feel like such a betrayal if one of them goes a different direction. I'm kind of locked in on them now. I it's like it is also it's funny how Love Island does that of like you see one thing and then suddenly you just

you want these people to fall in love forever and now I'm going to be so sad if anything happens to the two of them. I feel like a love developing between them, I haven't seen as much of like a spark. Physical, like chemistry. Yeah. And so it's like I feel like even if that doesn't develop, I think that those two will stay like true blue like best friends in the house even if it doesn't become romantic.

I hope it becomes romantic because I love them. We didn't really see a spark with Serena and Cordell early on. No. It seems kind of like a slow burn because she was like he was younger, right? Best banter. Chemistry and banter. Like you just loved listening to every conversation they had.

They were so funny. It was like, she was like, you're too young for me. And it's like, but I like you so much. That's how felt with them, I think. Yeah. She was very ambivalent. And like I feel like he kept like, remember when he was like, I want like a cheese at spong conduction. She was like, oh.

Yeah. It's like, I don't know. I feel like, I don't know. I am rooting for them. But I remember something that you said about being on The Bachelor where it's like kind of what you wind up doing is like you pick the person you're most attracted to. And I feel like that's not like you said like that's not always the case on Love Island. Sometimes people are slower and sometimes there is a friendship foundation.

Well, Love Island feels more like paradise where like with The Bachelor it's structured. Again, there are relationships that are built on missing someone because you get honestly very little time. You have a moment. They pull you away. And the relationship is like someone you're just kind of. You're inputting things that you think they might be. And so you really don't know them. On Love Island, they do get a lot of downtime that we don't get to see.

There are moments to have those deep conversations. Like when you meet someone and you're on the phone for four hours and it's just like you're just sharing every intimate detail. You could never do that on The Bachelor. Like you can do that on Love Island or you could do that on Paradise. So you do have the ability to form much deeper bonds. And I think you do have the opportunity to get past the, honestly I think she's just my type and I'm gonna I'm gonna roll the I hope that we get along when we get out of the show you know because there's really no other way to get more information yeah no I think it's true it's like it's weird though because like one of the islanders told me it's like it's like it's like a relationship in reverse because it's like you're living with the person you're spending all your time with them you're like constantly committing and recommitting to them and like telling everyone how you feel about them and like it's like then you get out and then like maybe you're boyfriend girlfriend you start dating it is so why it is so how so many islanders come off the show and it's like you've been yeah living with somebody so

intimate with them and then there's like no title even with um perfect match it's kind of like that when i feel like some of them are like that you like it's so intimate up up front like making out through the when they walk through the doors the first night i'm like it's that's so intimate but it but also i'm like maybe it's not actually intimate maybe it's forced and it's like i don't know i've talked to people like islanders who had sex and i was like oh well like when you were dating then they're like whoa whoa whoa we were dating yeah i was like I was like, good sex on TV. Maybe it becomes more of like, you know, I mean, I think men are maybe more like this,

like statistically. I don't know if actually, but like are more likely to be like physically intimate and it's like, oh, whatever, it doesn't matter. And I think everyone has experiences like that where you're like, man, like, whatever. But I wonder if it's more so like that. You put it in that category of like, this is kind of like just the norm here. It doesn't really mean anything. Love island rules.

Love island rules. Yeah. And then the emotional side comes later. And you just kind of bucket it. literally just like leave it all on an island and you don't have to deal with it anywhere outside of obviously the millions of people watching the internet but then some people don't have sex at all in the show like they just like they just like they're like I'm not doing it and then like some of them wind up in really serious relationships it's like there's no

rule book and like we've seen every permutation of like winter you can find and like every path that a relationship can develop along and we still haven't seen them all oh one thing I want to ask you before we I want I do want if you're if you have some time talk some summer house and some uh i love to but the money part of it yeah um love island it almost seems like why does it exist it's like because like you're writing your book how like you you can't don't you're not here for the money you know in a weird way so why why why do they have this element that only like seems to take away from what we love about the show well because in the first season of uk it's like they win 50 000 pounds and it's like that was all they were

going to like maybe if they might find somebody but that was all they were going to get from the show. There weren't potential. Yeah. There weren't followers. There weren't brand deals. There wasn't anything like that. It was like you split 50K. And so they made it like a prisoner's dilemma where one person gets the envelope and they're like,

okay, you have the money and now you have to decide whether you split it with your partner or not. And if it had gone, it was a very, very fresh couple in season one UK. It was the kind of win where it's like the woman really won. her name is Jess and then the guy she's like just gotten together with him like two seconds ago and people were just rooting for her so much that they're like them we're so happy she's happy but he'd split the money with her and it wouldn't have been unreasonable if he hadn't but it just sort of set the tone for the show where it's like we don't do that here but on the last season of Australia they offered them a deal where they're like okay if you walk away now right

before the finale you get like a huge chunk of the prize pot and someone did it And so I was wondering, because that's the first time that that's happened. Wow. And so it's like, I was like, oh my gosh, is it going to break the show? But I don't think it'll happen in U.S. That someone will, yeah, no. I think that would be totally wild because you're throwing away so much more money that's on the table. And now they just kind of keep it because it's like part of the.

It's like an investment in your future brand deals. Like you say no to this, hoping that you'll get it on the other side. And if you say yes to it, you're a. the assumption and probably the right one is like it will cost you so much more to take that money now. Well also like it's like a nice little nut. Like if you win Love Island it's like you have to have a home that you can like film content in. You know you're needing a little juzge a little glow up. It's like you're got like there are expenses that you have when you become like a public figure especially like they just burn so white hot like how big even minor islanders from last year.

I couldn't even believe how well they're doing. It's like, so I don't know, it's just like a little like money to get you started. Yeah. Before we let you go, Anna, we also know that you're very big Bravo fan. And so you watch all the shows like we do. You know, you're watching Summer House. You're watching Rhode Island. I would be remiss if we didn't get to talk to you a little bit about the Summerhouse scandal

that obviously has been captivating all of reality TV and certainly Bravo Nation. What is your read on the situation? Are you as captivated as you? you were, I'm assuming, was Scandival. Like, how do you read the situation? What do you think it makes so, what's so fascinating to you about it? Nothing is as captivating as Scandival because, like, the stakes were so high and I was so invested in Ariana and her reaction, but then we were watching it secretly happen.

And so it's like, this, like, I really don't think that, I mean, who knows, I don't think we'll ever have clarity on this timeline. But, like, it doesn't seem like there was anything necessarily. physical going on last summer, although it does seem like obviously she was developing feelings for him. Amanda was developing feelings for West at that point. I don't know. I love Sierra. I'm so glad she's going to be on After Sun this season. I feel like West really could have just been the number one guy in the group by doing nothing and he just threw it all away. Question. Yes. With her being on Aftersun, does that not interfere with Summerhouse? They've cleared it up.

They have. Yeah. Because at first, when they announced the after sun, it was a lot of speculation that, oh, will this interact? You know, will it, and then they made a statement that it wouldn't? I think that it's still being finalized. But, like, after sun would, because I think a Summer House starts shooting June 20th. It's like a little bit earlier. Like, they just started doing the pream stuff.

Like, not necessarily. Exactly. Love Island should go into, like, mid-July. So, like, possibly she might, like, miss a little bit but don't you kind of love that her like walking in like a queen and like she's now the co-holt and she's and she's and she's clearly just like sorry i've been in fiji for the last months everyone oh sorry west were you here yeah yeah didn't even care so much has changed i don't look pale if you look sad what were you in italy if it's a man if it was a friend of yours oh my gosh

what would you be saying to her right now i'd be saying stay inside don't be going to all those West Village bars, girl. And I would be, I mean, you know what it's like. When you have a friend who's doing something, even if you're like, why are you ruining your life? Like, it's like you can't give someone advice. Amanda knows the decision she's making is like, quote unquote, bad. Like, she's gotten that feedback enough.

So I feel like her life is what it is. Like she's like laying in the bed that she made. I think that things are pretty bad right now. I don't know. In terms of like being a reality TV person. I don't see how it gets much worse than this. And I wonder if she and West are going to be returning. I mean, she'll definitely stay on in the city.

And they announce that they're having a reunion for the first season. Well, they have to. Amanda, like, has to do another reunion where basically she will be the center of the conversation. It seems like she hasn't really shown up for the reunion. You know, at the end of the day, it just feels like she, this is like, I'm just going to, I guess kind of apologize and it didn't really feel like a sincere apology. It felt like she was kind of like half checked out. And now it's like even though it's been obviously very captivating reunion because of the topic,

you don't feel like it's just it's just I just never thought I said this last week. I never thought you would actually get more empathy from Tom Sandoval and Raquel than you were from West and Amanda. I know. Well, I mean West like when people are like kind of like telling him like, and you're a piece of shit and you always do this. He's kind of like at least like not. nodding along. But like Amanda, her posture and her like attitude are kind of baffling to me. But I guess like if you blew up your life like that, like how could like you don't want to think it was all a mistake.

I think like, okay, maybe I like did this the wrong way or whatever, but at least I did it for something worth it. And I mean how long. I don't know. Maybe it'll turn out for the best for them. But like do you see a long term future for them? No one does. Yeah. I don't know. But I think there's this, I think what's so fascinating about it is they know what everyone thinks and they, like,

they're very defined. They're very defined. They're going to go much further than they ever would have because they have all of this pressure of like they're never going to last. They can't last. They better get married. They bet, you know. He did a podcast.

I'm guessing, I mean, they're still in Italy and he's doing his podcast. Yeah. And he likes to. take the time on his podcast to clear up what photos mean and what rumors are out there and which you know he didn't want to do that before all this news broke but he's happy to do it now he was like yeah everyone's like coming at me for the way he treats like women in relationships and he he was like I just keep everything so private in my life that like what is that supposed to

mean he says on his podcast talking about his reality TV show can we yeah can we pull up the exact quote that he said, but he was like, I'm just so used to keeping everything private that. So private to the women he's dating? Yeah. They don't know where they stand. They don't know that there's multiple. It's interesting because when he's in the house, like he's very like out there, but he doesn't really talk about his feelings that much.

I think he, like when he talks about Sierra, to me that feels like projection. He feels like he wanted to chase Sierra and she was this like conquest and he won't. And more than anything, it seems like he wants to be liked. And so, like, if she's there being like, I don't like you, I don't like you, I don't like you. Like he needs the validation of like, but you do like me a little, right? It's a game. Yeah. He acts like it's all a game.

And then the second he won, he was like, I'm bored with the game. Like, I guess someone else on his podcast, I don't know, producer or someone was like, yes, they said that they saw Amanda paying for like a dinner in Italy. And he's like, dude, that's crazy. they watched her pull out her credit card. He's like, but I bought the flights and the hotels. And then Sophie's like, it's okay to split things. Y'all can split. But it's just like the way that he's defending all these just rant.

Like we don't care. Just tell us what we actually want to know. I was a citizen alley over the weekend. I was kind of just thinking about because I've been on this kind of thing of like men in 2026 and reality TV and how like. you know, in a good way, men are getting therapy in ways that they haven't before, but it's like men are, men will be men type of thing. And you see now men becoming more, like using that to their advantage. They're more therapy, literally.

They can center their feelings in a way that feels like safe for the person talking to, but at the end of the day, it's just kind of manipulative. Craig? Well, I think a lot of Bravo men, I think the new barometer for ladies out there, specifically when we were watching reality TV and like, you know, they were talking about chivalry on Love Island. And the question, I think, you know,

as men become more like, you know, defining those boundaries of like, well, it's 2026, do I have to pay for anything? You know, it's like using an excuse to kind of like show up less in relationships. And I think the question you have to ask yourself is if they were on the Titanic and it was going down,

would your guy or this guy, would he acknowledge that women and women and children still go first. I think West would be like, we're all going, right? Like, that's so. And there's room for everybody. There's enough for everybody. I'm going to go on this one.

I'll be first to help them down. I'll get down and I'll just hold their hands. Throw me the children. But I think Bravo was filled with a lot of men who would get on the raft. Well, but I will say in this specific instance, Amanda probably makes a lot, lot, lot, lot, lot more money than him. She's been on the show for 10 years. I don't know in what capacity.

she was on the very early seasons because she was kind of just like, I was a friend of Kyle. But like she's probably making a ton more per episode than West is. Yeah, but he's still doing fine. And that's kind of my point where like he can clearly afford something, but he's going to use like modern dating terms as a way to be like, you got this? You know? You got this one? I got the flights. Yeah.

Well, I don't like that tip for tat. Like, well, I got the flights. So, and I'm also like, you got the, like, I'm always like very careful about the language. Did you buy the hotel or did you get the hotel? Are you posting a story frame for the hotel? Or did you use your credit card? I don't think any hotel wants to acknowledge that they are working with the West Coast. In Italy, you know, they're more liberty in society.

Switching gears just to a little island before we, Rhode Island before we let you go. We were talking in the beginning of the episode, but I was alarmed by Rula's husband talking about stacks of ones and how I was like man that that guy goes to like that was no bigger reveal than realizing your partner goes with strip clubs a lot I think Rula's got bigger problems with her husband than his strip club

habits and if he's bringing ones like at least he's not like going in the back room but it's like things I've never said where you just like you know that like as someone who doesn't go to strip clubs I just never had that thought in her big reveal in her outfit it was you know a moment where she's definitely looking to be

complimented by her husband and he says like, damn, I wish I had a stack of ones. I'm not a big drug guy. I didn't really a lot of drugs or really any growing up. And, like, I just remember there was, like, one time I was going out, I was single, and I met someone who, like, asked if I could get them drugs. And it was at a night where I remember being like, I don't know any drug. Like, I wouldn't even.

How would I do not have? I don't know how to do that. You have to buy drugs. But there was like, it made me feel good that I didn't know how to do. do that but it also reminded me of like it was just kind of the things you never think of that are of conversations that go on in other groups

it was like yeah it was Rula on this show like because the lore is so deep on Rhode Island like we dropped it and we were a thousand feet deep like in this show in these relationships these friendships and I'm like we're learning all this stuff about Rula's marriage and it's like hard

for me to even like respond because I have no baseline for what their marriage is or was she's not showing up a lot. So we're just getting these like glimpses and like they're all horrible. It's like the footage that he doesn't know was being recorded and then him saying that, his watch what happens live appearance. And I'm like, it's just hard for me to even know how to respond because like I'm like, we don't have that kind of relationship, bro. Right. What mistress are you allowing to have so much footage of you? Like I don't understand. I'm like literally get a sticker for her phone or

something when you hang out with her. Airplane love. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like put your phone in this bag and We're going to lock it. And then you have Ashley and Jared figuring out whether they're going to keep their coffee shop. I know. Awesome. What a juxtaposition. I love them so much. But I do feel, and you got to promote your business when you're on the show.

I do feel like we're getting a lot of Audrey's. Maybe they need. I feel like that might be their only storyline, which is probably a good problem for them. You know what I mean? It's not about a mistress or anything else. It's about, do we keep the. Yeah. I appreciate the conversation, though, because it's like, I mean, I know them, obviously.

obviously intimately and personally. And it is like a fascinating thing where like Jared truly loves doing it. Yeah. He does it because he loves it. Objectively, it's just, it's not necessarily worth the time and commitment it takes for him to do that

versus like the opportunities they have. And that's a very just kind of difficult conversation to like give up on your dream, even though it's, he's made a lot of progress. But like he just knows that if he just took that energy in time and put into somewhere else, it just, it would be a lot of, lot different and probably a lot easier. It is fascinating in that regard. I do love hearing people

talk about like their finances and like life structures. And this is within the realm of like something you can imagine like being in. It's not like what people are like, oh like I'm bankrupt with my company that has like 12 locations. You're like I don't know your life. Like we're doing different like pinkie. She was like, she's like, you know, I'm finally bankruptly personally personally but like my business are fine. I'm thinking I don't know if you're finding for bankruptcy. period. I just would be a little nervous. But she's just like, no, apples and oranges.

Anna, thanks so much for joining us. It's been so much fun. The book is called Enter the Villa. It is out now. So all you love Island fans, and I know you all are who are listening. If you want to get the dirty details of all things, the history of Love Island, interviews with cast members, production, Charlie XX, all of that and so much more is in this book. Get it where anywhere you find books. Is there an audio version? There's an audiobook version. It's really good. They do all the accents. Amazing. Check it out.

Anna, thanks so much for joining us. It's so much fun. Thank you. And where can people enjoy your work, follow you, all that fun stuff? So I write for Vanity Fair, and you can find me on Instagram at Peel Banana or on Twitter.

Sorry, I'm still there, and I'm still calling a Twitter at Banana Peel. Thank you. Well, we'll do it for today's episode. Thank you to Gemma from Calabasasas, Confidentia, and Anna Peel, the author of Enter the Vela.

Thank you guys for listening. and don't forget to check out our going deep air interview with Kelly Potter from Real Housewives of Atlanta. That is out tomorrow. Until then, we'll see you.