The Viall Files - E1141 - Love Island & Summer House Reunion Insanity! + JoAnna Garcia Swisher

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!    Thought Summer House was over?? You would be wrong. We get all the way into the bonus episode news, what's going on in Amanda's head, Kyle being Princess Diana, West's inability to use his words, and more! Meanwhile, we continue our Love Island USA coverage and discuss new bombshells Jen, Caleb and Sol, if Sincere is being Sincere, Melanie being misunderstood, KC and Aniya's dynamic and dating with a roster. Plus, actress JoAnna Garcia Swisher stops by to talk about Season 5 of Netflix's Sweet Magnolias and her marriage to baseball player Nick Swisher. You won't want to miss it! "What do you think they were thinking at that moment?" Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Clearstem: Go to https://clearstem.com/viall, add the free mini HYDRAGLOW Plumping Moisturizer to your cart, and use code VIALL at checkout to get the mini moisturizer free when you spend $75 or more. Upside: To find out how much you could earn, Download the FREE Upside App and use promo code VIALL to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. LittleSpoon: Get 30% off your first online order at https://littlespoon.com/viall with code VIALL. CarGurus: Buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus at https://cargurus.com  Cozey: Transform your living space today with Cozey. Visit https://cozey.com, the home of possibilities, made easy. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Household Headlines 14:13 - JoAnna Joins 39:09 - Summer House 1:17:02 - Love Island 01:54:03 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy    @ciaracrobinson @jogarciaswisher @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @baybaeee

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Welcome back to another exciting episode of the VAL Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household. Nally wants you to know. She is getting closer and closer to being not pregnant anymore. Yes. She's super excited about that. And I, for some reason, don't know what is wrong with my brain, but I was like, you know what? This is how I'm going to get through the rest of this pregnancy is I'm going to, like, order some clothes, not postpartum, but just like post-baby.

You know, I'm not going to order like the big sweatpants for postpartum. I'm going to order some cute outfits. Do we love that we made that decision? I ordered size small And then it showed up And then it showed up And then I took it out of the bag And then I was like, wow

I don't know If that's ever gonna fit Honestly, I don't know What the hell I was thinking So, you know, I think the belly's just A real big mental block these days She pulled it out and she's like Oh no

I was like that's not true I was like this will fit river Natalie you have two people inside That's what I keep saying She looks fantastic Yeah I'm also like, what did you order a corset? Yeah.

No, I ordered some pants, some silk pants from Jake grew, but in a size small. And just me holding them up. I was like, oh, no. Like, I was just like, that has a lot of work. It's giving the Brandy Melville one size fits all thing where it's like, that doesn't fit like anybody. One size fit too. Yeah.

Yeah. Except that like you will, in fact, bounce back because you. you just will. Well, I also, what's crazy is my first pregnancy. I had our wedding three months postpartum, which date was chosen before that pregnant, you know, so kept all that. This time we'll be filming season two of age of attraction three months postpartum. So I'm like, can I rest?

Can I just not? It just sounds like you really love to have a goal to work towards, you know? Really motivating. Skipping Virga. I planned it all. Someone say Natalie, it's consistency. Like, you just want your digital footprint to be like, this is who I am.

No allegations. I bounce back to three months or less. What won't bounce back is my beard. Yeah. I have some grays. Some. He was shaving him off this morning. Individually.

It's getting... He's plucking. He's using tweezers. We're past that. Yeah. It's like, got it. And what's a real bummer is like, because I have some blonde.

There's plenty of blonde. And like in the summer, my beer gets some blonde. And I've been like, it's blonde. Yeah. It's gotten hard and harder to lie to myself. Listen, DeLulu is the best of Lulu. Meanwhile, Kyle Cook's out there looking better than ever. That he just put out.

Yeah. Like, stunning. He's really had a glow up. Or has he always looked like this? And I just blinded by him calling his wife a bitch. I think it was that. His aura was dark. Yeah, his aura was dark.

Well, people were saying, too, like the In the City promos that he was doing, he looks like Kyle from season one of Summerhouse. Like he's, like, de-aged, which is probably just happiness. There's something to be said about like just feeling fresher, younger, freer. Mm-hmm. You know? All the videos of him like making out with fans. I'm into it.

I don't know why. There was one that someone sent in the group message yesterday or the day before that. And he like kissed her. Then he was like, you're actually really hot. I'm like, wait, that's a crazy thing to say to someone. She's also in the comments. Somebody like tagged her and was like, I know her. And then she was like,

or something. And I'm just like, I don't know, watching him, like, I don't know, there's something about watching somebody, like, live their authentic life the way that they want to, where I'm like him DJing, him, like, doing all the things that he was doing while married, where we were like, focus on your relationship and your wife. Without that, and especially with all the West stuff, I'm like, go boy. We're like, you'll follow your thing. Yeah.

Well, it's like Hunter Harris when she was on said that he was her Princess Diana. And the more you think about it, the more she was absolutely right. I'm like, yeah, the way that Kyle got out of that marriage and Kyle put on that revenge, whatever skincare product he had. And he's making out with girls during his DJ set. Bravo's Princess Die. Generally speaking, in a relationship that goes south,

there's usually one person fighting for that relationship more than the other. And we've always, like, assumed it was Amanda fighting for that relationship. And the more we, like, watch and discover and watch the reunion and in the city, you're kind of like, not to put on on Amanda, but clearly he was, you know, fighting for the relationship, whether you had notes about how he fought for it or not. You know, he wasn't like being intimate with his partner.

We assume that despite maybe some of his, like, past discretions, he was mostly consistent and mostly, I say mostly faithful seems like a crazy thing to say. But you know what I'm saying? Like he, in his way, was trying to make it work. It seemed like Amanda, like that scene in the city where she's sitting down with Kyle, which is like such a, you know, it's hard to keep up. Like, are you guys together?

Are you not together? Like the jump from like the summer house ringing in to end the city. Oh, we're back to like saving the marriage. We're working towards getting back together, but I just signed a year lease. It's crazy. But I'm keeping the keys. Unfurnished. Amanda's version, it seems like, of trying is to give Kyle the blueprint of how to win her over.

Which, you know, I mean, I'm not saying she didn't have the right to do that, but it also just seems to make more and more sense of like her mindset. It seems like all she wanted was for someone to pick her, to choose her to like, you know, at all cost. She wanted to be swept off her feet. And it seems like Wes was at least willing to pretend to do that. And it seems like that's what it was all about. Her working on the marriage was getting a new apartment. And then making and trying to like scare Kyle or get Kyle to do something.

It was all. So when you think about it, it was like Kyle had to do all the things, you know. And she had nothing to do. She's perfect. Yeah, she wasn't willing to meet him halfway with anything. But just her mindset was, I'm done. You need to do, if you want this marriage to work, you need to do this, this, this, and that. And it was like, that's not how two people fix a relationship.

You date for 10 years. You have problems. Like, it can't ever be just one person. Well, and even when he was like, I would just love it if we could have these discussions, like we're having, we're making a decision together versus you telling me what's happening in our relationship. Like that is a relationship. You don't get to just tell someone, I'm a sign of your lease, but don't worry, we're dating. I'm not seeing anybody else. But it's like, but we should be seeing each other at least two nights a week.

And I'm just like, well, what are we doing the other five days a week if we're not working on our relationship? Also him being like, yeah, I'm still wearing my wedding band. And you're being like, I'm just not wearing any jewelry right now. It's like, girl, girl. It was giving Melanie being like, I didn't know it was you. I didn't know it was Corbyn. I didn't know it was Corby. And he's like, girl.

He's like, look at the build on that mat. Have you seen the two of our hair lengths? No, it was just really good kisses. I had no idea who it was. Truly. And like maybe you're not wearing jewelry today, but when was the last time you wore your wedding bed? You know, like.

That's kind of how I feel like watching Amanda in the reunion and in the city. Like it kind of feels like you think everyone else is dumb. And like, that's why it's so frustrating is because it's just like. No, they just don't get her. You know what I mean? But it's just like, no, I didn't post those photos to mean anything in a whole on slide with me and Wes had the best day ever. Like, it's just like, girl, like, it's, it's so much

more strength in admitting your faults and being like, hey, like, I thought I was getting one on. You guys, I was having a fun time fine. But like the way that she's just like, no, if I did that, that was a dumb mistake that I did. And it's like, girl, you knew what you were doing when you were thriving and riding high on the way. That was the dumb mistake. Yeah. Not enough to your point where it's just like you have her sitting here trying to tell her husband how to win her back. But then the options are either give him zero time to do that or prove that or be one of a zillion in a lineup for West. When he said, I have a zillion girls that it's been unclear with. I was like, is this a flex?

Like that was. But that's the number we chose, not like a couple, not a few. There's been a lot. A lot. Zillions of girls. How many people are in the world? More than that. Like, right?

And like that's what I'm saying. Like, you know that there's so many because he went straight to like kindergarten numbers. Yeah. I think it's like a zillion or like a trillion. There's just so many. We have a whole bonus episode next week, which I'm really, really excited. Did they give us the timeline on what, like, when that is?

Is that post? I don't know if it's post. In the city? It's post reunion. Post reunion. Yeah. I genuinely feel like it was like Bravo's way of being like, hey, Amanda West, you guys did not show up at this reunion.

One more chance. We're giving you another chance and we'll do an aftermath. We'll do it in your house. You can wear your stupid little hats. I've never heard the warrior beta blocker. So I didn't even know what a beta blocker was. Still don't know if I really know. But like it's the way that's been talked about,

the recognition beta blockers have received from the reunion of Summerhouse is unprecedented. What beta blockers have done for the Bravo community cannot be undersold. Get them verified on Instagram. I mean, the fact that Annie, like, brought it up. And he's like, well, yeah, I took one. Oh, I felt so vindicated because I've said that since this moment they opened their mouths. I was like, this is beta blocker plus something. He didn't also see it in Amanda, though.

He was like, I'm talking to you, West. I'm like, I think Amanda obviously had something else happening with her. And he was probably like, let me just give this to West because he's showing no emotion versus Amanda being like actively like not defending Amanda in any way. But it seemed like she was on, I don't know. I was like Amanda was more zomified than West. Yeah, that's zombieified. But I'm like, I do think that there's like a protection thing that is happening with this edit when it comes to Amanda because she was not asked really any of the hard. hitting questions or like followed up or pressed by anyways.

Which again, it's just tough to do. I think, I mean, Andy did a great job. You can only do so much. And like, you know, when it comes to hosting reunions, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. You either, like, you either pushing too much and then look like you're taking aside or you're not asking enough questions. Part of a reunion is letting people decide how they want to go about it.

You can only do so much. But, like, clearly Amanda and West just did not want to do that. And we also don't know how much. Andy pushed versus how much they showed. I just kind of wish there was like moments where Sierra or Lindsay were trying to like push them to ask them questions. And Andy like wanted to get his question out. So he kept being like, okay, no, no, hold on, hold on, hold on a minute. And I was like, I kind of wish that he would have like let them run with whatever they were saying because it was Sierra going after West.

And Sierra hadn't really been talking directly to West throughout a lot of the reunion. It was like, I wish he would have let that moment happen. And then I was also like, I'm sorry, but like Lindsay lived it. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, even though it may not have happened to her, she's obviously supportive of both Kyle and Sierra. And she came out there like, I don't feel like I learned anything. And I will say the first two parts of this reunion, I felt that way too. I was like, this is the most frustrating thing.

I didn't come here to watch somebody's PR perfect answer of like, well, we've discussed that and we've decided to maintain our privacy. And, you know, we'll see how things go. It's like, no, tell me what the conversation was. Tell me what happened. So I'm glad that they saved everything for the end. but I'm also kind of like, I don't know. I just feel like they could be doing more or could have let the people who actually experienced it

ask their questions and get that out versus like what was getting through everything that was on the cards. Say that. Period. Well, we have a great episode lined up for you today. Before we do, I want to remind you that yesterday's episode of Going Deeper with Kelly Potter is out now for all your real housewives of Atlanta fans.

It's a fantastic episode and we really appreciate to get to know Kelly on a deeper level. So be sure to check that out. Also, today we have Joanna Swisher, the star of Sweet Magnolias. It's in its fifth season. It's out now. It's streaming on Netflix. And she joins us momentarily. We have a fantastic conversation with Joanna. She is married to baseball legend, Nick Swisher, and what a sweet and lovely person. But also a big former bachelor fan. She joins us momentarily. So excited for you guys to listen to that. But before we do, don't forget the Vial Files Plus is ad-free. And it's available for all of you listeners. Also, in addition to the ad-free episodes that you get behind Vial Files Plus, we have a

reality recap deep dyes, which right now we're going deep into all things. Obviously, Bravo and Love Island, really getting the nitty-gritty with those shows. So if you can't get enough of just breaking down every nook and cranny of these shows, Vowals Plus is where you're going to get that fix. Also, if you want more, Gen Z, Mary and Justin are also putting out some content in VialFiles Plus. Plus, you get your update specials, your favorite updates from your favorite assnick calls, and so much more. So be sure to check that out. Also, for all you readers out there, Again, I have a subsect that is out there. I dropped a new essay yesterday watching the summer

house reunion. I was reminded of the feeling of being stuck, like not just like physically, but emotionally, mentally stuck. You know, so often, even though we're out of relationships, we still spend so much of our emotional energy, like, living in those relationships and we have a hard time getting out of them and like kind of the things that like are the signals of like, just to like let us know where we are. I wrote about that. And if you are ever been in a relationship, whether it's a romantic one or a friendship, and you're investing. your mental energy long after they have gone. It might be something that you enjoy reading.

I hope that you do. Check it out. Just go to Valafalz.com to check out the substack because it is out and available for you to enjoy. Feel free to send to Amanda Batula. Yeah. I don't think she's ready to receive that one yet. Who knows? Should I DM it to her? Case you're interested.

Hey, thought of you. Thought of you. All right. Well, it's time to get to Joanna Swisher. She's up next. Gas groceries eating out. There's no escaping those expenses every month. But one thing you can control is getting cash back for them.

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V-I-A-L-L. You all know I love to rearrange your room. I love to wake up on a Sunday morning and say, what can we do to refresh this space? And thankfully for Nick, we have a cozy modular couch. So it's very, very easy for him to do this. And it doesn't take a lot of brain exercise or heavy lifting. Cozy specializes in modular furniture, which means you can customize your setup and reconfigure it whenever you want. Your living room can change as your needs change. And one of the best features is the removable and washable covers. So obviously, I've got a toddler, two dogs, a husband, babies on the way. Like just, you know, it's having cushions that you can take the covers off and wash. Top tier, chef's kiss.

Cozy makes the entire process simple from choosing pieces online to assembling them at home and rearranging them. They also offer rugs, side tables, coffee tables, dining tables, everything that you are looking for. They have. Transform your living space today with Cozy Visit Cozy.com. That's C-O-Z-E-Y.com. The Home of Possibilities Made Easy. Joanna, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. We're so excited to have you. You probably don't remember this, but I met you and Nick like 10 or 12 years ago at some fundraiser. like a long time ago.

Yeah. Do you remember that? Are you kidding me? Yes, of course. It was the race to a race MS. Yes, yes. Because I'm like the biggest Bachelor and Bachelorette fan ever. So it was a very exciting moment for me.

Oh, hell yeah. Okay. Well, I was a big fan of Nick in his baseball days. So it was a also a fan of you as well. But being a big sports fan, I was like, oh, my God. It's fine. We split the difference. Yeah.

Well, we're very excited to have you. Obviously, just big congratulations are in order. Season 5 of Sweet Magnolius is obviously out now. It's such a hit show. Everyone loves it. But just to get a fifth season of anything these days is so difficult. What is it meant to you to be on such a successful hit show where there's no end in sight in such a good way? Well, I don't know about that, but it's been amazing.

I mean, it was definitely a surprise. and it came at a really, you know, kind of intense time in my life. And obviously we've all gone through so much. We collectively went through like a pandemic together. We went through all of the Hollywood strikes, the writer strike and all of these different things. But I also lost both my parents during the time that I've shot the show. And so we moved out of L.A. So it feels like when I look back and I have been more reflective this time around than

before, I feel like, you know, very grateful personally, not just professionally for the experience because it has really gotten me through a lot. And so it's been a really special journey. Why do you feel like it's connected with the audience the way that it has and just keeps bringing people back season after season? I mean, I think it goes back to just like this, like, it's very relatable. And, you know, it's so easy. It's, this show's very, very sweet and, you know, the premise of it is, you know, by nature just sort of, there's not this like intensity to it, but if you really watch the show and you've seen what we've gone through, we've really gone through some pretty intense life moments together. And I think the idea that

you are going through life with your village, your chosen family and this idea of friendship. And so it's aspirational in that these women really in their adult life have gotten through gone through so much together, but they make time for each other still, which is, I know, as you get older and, like, life happens, it gets a little bit more difficult. And I also think it's just, it's a show that, you know, makes you feel, you know, like you're not alone. It's heartwarming. Yeah. But we're still, I mean, we've, we've, we've killed some people on the show. We've had a lot happen on the show. So it's not like we've, like, you know, infidelity, all of these different themes. But it's also like I go back to even a show like Riva, my first show that was on the air for this

about the time I was a full-blown pregnant teen, you know, dad left my mom for the dental hygienist. Like, it was a country music song. Yeah. All right off the bat. They didn't shy away from like real stuff happening. We just did it kind of, we told the story through a different lens. I'm curious, because your character, Maddie, you know, she's gone through so much, divorce, co-parenting, dating, remarrying.

I'm curious, as someone who plays this kind of dynamic and kind of robust character, Is there anything when you're playing a character like that? Are you able to learn about relationships through playing that character? And what have you learned, if anything, by playing someone who has such a kind of an up and down kind of crazy life? Yeah, that is such a good question because I really was just thinking about this the other day that, you know, she's grown so much. And in a way, you know, she is me in so many ways. But then she isn't me at all. And there was one season in particular where.

you know, I think her toxic trait might be that she, you know, wants everybody to be okay. And she wants to make sure, you know, kind of she's controlling in that way. And I do kind of have that in me. And I remember being super triggered that season and being like, gosh, it's so uncomfortable. Why is everybody picking on Maddie? And, you know, it just felt like I made it so personal. And then I realized like, no, this is actually something she's got to deal with. This is some, like, baggage. And I think she kind of, as is. Especially this season, I feel like she's really been able to stand on her own two feet and kind of sit in the muck of life where she wasn't willing to do that before, whether it be out of fear or this like need for perfection and wanting to have everything figured out. She really is like okay in the mess and in the unknown. And I actually like really probably need to learn that lesson too.

I have like my life pretty methodically planned out And it just I laugh because it never Really turns out the way that you plan it to But never goes as planned It never does How does that do you ever like do scenes with Nick Or do you ever like do you ever talk about your character And some of your character choices with Nick who

Former professional baseball all star like Yeah You both like reach the like the pinnacle of your careers Does he get super involved with it? Or is he kind of doing his own thing? He definitely is very close with everybody on the show. And then I know in the first season when Justin had to like hit, Nick brought him one of his bats and they met and they were like,

okay, we're going to make this look really good. And even this season with the baseball, Justin was like, oh, what a Nick think. So he's kind of always had that like, you know, the technical part of it, kind of having his back in that way. But then also I was like, oh, I have to have this kind of. kind of sexy scene and I want to build my shoulders to look great. And he was like, let's do it. So he went on this like little shoulder circuit together. So yeah, I mean, he is, he's a ride or die. He's a really good teammate. And, uh, on, you know, and professionally and personally.

How long have y'all been married? We've been married almost 16 years. Wow. Good for you guys. I know. What's been the secret for you guys? Yeah. I think just like being each other's, and I don't want to say best friend because I don't even, I don't know how much I believe like in that and if that's the case for certain people then it's all great like I have my best girlfriends and they are my rider dies but um he is like my partner and we dream together and I think that's something that he like I really was impressed with him from the beginning like when I first met him he was like he called me from the baseball field and and he was watching them cut the grass and he was like I feel so lucky that I get to do this and um I can't believe it like this is

so rare. And I thought, oh gosh, I'm dating these men that are similar in age to him and have different levels of success in their own particular, you know, areas of expertise. And nobody had really had that sort of sense of like gratitude and presence and that whole thing. And that really impressed me. And so I think really right off the bat, we super connected on just like wanting to build something together because it's not always great. It sometimes is really hard. It sucks sometimes. Well, I love that you said that Natalie and I had a date night the other night, and we were just kind of taught, we were, Nallie is about, we're to give birth to twins and we're kind of talking about our future. So exciting. And, but yeah, but I love that you said that because I think the word partner, me, it hits differently because now, like, with dating, we're using partner.

But, like, when it, when you're talking about your partner and I said to Nali, I just, the thing I'm always so grateful about her is like, no matter what's going on in my life, good or bad, I feel like I have. a partner in the truest sense of the word where I have someone who I'm I'm going through it with them and no matter what happens whether it's something that's specific to me or something that we're dealing with together I do I feel like she's always in it with me like if if I'm stressed it's not like a this is your problem I always feel like all right how how can we do this together when I'm like we get we got to we got to step up we got this challenge I always feel like Natalie's like, all right, we got to, we got to do this. She always makes me feel like there and that, and that partner aspect is like, yeah, it makes you feel like you're not alone.

And like you said, it's not like, oh, my, my best friend. It's just more like I have someone who's in it with me, you know, no matter what. Yeah, and as your family expands and as you become like a bigger family unit and you start to really like see how that approach to a relationship or even honestly, it's a gift and a blessing because it really is. But that approach to, like, that presence is very much it will bleed into your children's lives. And they will, that will be such a great example. And I remember my mom and dad were married for almost 50 years before my dad passed away. They had their 50th anniversary. Like, and my mom had dementia.

And so it was really hard. And then we had COVID. And so it was like really hard. But I remember being with her on their 50th anniversary. And like, she had this real presence of mine. which was so exciting but also heartbreaking on that day, but they were always each other's team and she did it. She said the funniest thing to me. And I said this in a wedding speech at one of my best friend's wedding. My mom said, they were getting ready for their 25th wedding anniversary

and she was packing. I was like, I was 15. I said, you can put some lingerie in there. I was being just a smart ass. And she looked at me and she's like, let me just tell you something. There is nothing sexier than my naked body. And I was like, okay, well, like, did I did not, That's open that door. And she's like, and also just so you know, like when you get married, always put out. Because if you're doing it right, it only takes five minutes. And like laughed about it. I was horrified. And and then it's definitely shocked my father because my father's like, yeah, right, five minutes. But then, but there was a sentiment there, which was like finding that sense of like you don't ever want to stray too far in terms of like emotionally. Not necessarily physically because it really wasn't about the physical thing for her. It was really about like this is your partner. This is your like connection. And they had it on every level.

And I feel like it like struck me in that way. And as I've gotten older and this is not about anyone's sex life. This is really just about like making that choice. This is your person that you're in it with. And if things do get a little sticky and hairy, it's like finding your way back to one another before you let like three weeks go by or four weeks go by or all of a sudden you're living separate lives and it's just like it's very easy for that to unravel and so I think that we've both really understood that we had very different examples of that in our lives growing up

and we just came at it together and now we're 16 years in and I just can't imagine my life without them what is like even though sometimes he drives me none well of course what is your process when you when the two of you feel disconnected, is it like one of you kind of acknowledging it and bringing the two of you together? Or what is what do y'all do? Yeah. Well, I'm more of like I need space. I need time to process. And then I like to kind of like I journal a lot. So that's sort of how I reflect. Whereas Nick is much more like what's going on. I'm so like he's so quick to apologize about something or want to talk about it. And I'm like that is not you're never going to get the best out of me for that. And so we've had to learn that it's like take a beat, let me have my moment.

And then we can kind of come together with clear heads because being like confronted and smothered to like fix a problem is doesn't work well for me. I need like a minute to think. So we do. We have just like I guess it's like I don't know like an operations manual where you're like, okay, you know, things hit the fan. step one. Take a step back. Yes. And we like do not ever cuss at each other because that was super triggering for Nick.

And so we don't like we don't say mean things to each other. That's kind of like a rule. But sometimes like I want to be mean, but I'm not. I can't. Am I opening up like a marriage counseling session? No, I just asked Nick to make me some cereal the other night and he said, shit, man, it's already 11 o'clock. You haven't had cereal yet?

And I was like, oh, my God. You're like, God, you're so much of that story. Context doesn't matter. It's fine. I definitely fuck that. Especially in this moment. Thank you. Yeah, totally.

No, after I said, I was like, damn. You're like, dang it. Yeah. Oh, my God. I literally, I can hear that, like, that exhale. I get, I can hear what Nick says something dumb. And he's like, oh, God. He just, it's not like out of,

frustration. It's like, why? Why did I do that? I've been doing this for so long. Like, I should not have said that. How did you and Nick meet? We were set up by a mutual friend. And it was Nick's ninth grade math tutor in Parkersburg, West Virginia. And my, he was just a mutual friend of mine. He worked at the management company that I was represented at. And I went to go to New York to do Gossip Girl. And Nick had just been traded that season to the Yankees. And so we experienced. change phone numbers, and then I went to go see him play a game, and one thing led to another, and they won the World Series that year. So I thought, well, this is sort of like what should happen every year. And that doesn't happen very often. So it was just kind of fast. Was he traded from the athletics? He was traded from the Chicago White Sox. It was like a very dark, low moment in his career. I read here that on your free time, you teach English as a second language to people. Is that true?

I did when, like, when I was younger. Yeah. Oh, okay. I did. Now I'm teaching English. I'm trying to teach Spanish to my children. But you lose it. We just got back from Spain and there was moments where I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm a G.

I can speak beautifully. And there was moments where I was just like so hopeless. But my Owella lived with us growing up. My dad's from Cuba. And she only spoke Spanish. So that sort of was we were in a bilingual household from very early on. Is that something in a different life? Would you have been a teacher?

Did you enjoy the teaching element to it? I mean, I feel like it was just, I loved kids, but I, my passion was interior design. I love furniture and textiles and like that kind of art. So if I wasn't doing this, that's probably what I would be doing. What is your 2026, like Joanna, like must have interior design hack for this year? Well, we're building a house right now, so I feel like I'm so in it in terms. And we're also opening a brick and mortar for my lifestyle company. My must have design hack, like, I mean, for me right now, it's all about we're, you know, picking stones and, but really building out the spaces that feel like super personal. I think that I've always said, like, what makes a house, what makes great design is like that personal nature. And I do love all different design for all different. different reasons. And if someone is very monochromatic just by nature and like that's sort of what makes them feel happy in their space, then I'm like, this is the like the pentacle of design. But

for me, it's all about like the stories and the trinkets and I'm a bit eccentric in that way. So I love like all of the different things that make the house. Like, you know, I love when people lean in and go, what's that all about or tell me about that? That's for me what makes great. I'd rather have a bare home than a home filled with things that don't matter. What's your favorite trinket that you own that's in your home? I have a salt and pepper collection. And I traveled all over the world. And now people will get them for me as gifts, which is super meaningful.

But my mom loved chihuahuas. And when she was starting to get sick, she has these like two little, they're just like cheesy little. salt and pepper shakers and like one has a chipped ear, but they're, they kiss. And so those are my treasured. Those are my treasured ones. I also have the cookie jar. Oh, the cookie jar. So that one means a lot to me. But yeah, those things, I love collections. But I'm, like I said, I'm just like a little, my mom was eccentric in that way. Like, I'm a little, I'm a little quirky in that way. You said you were a big bachelor fan. Are you still watching reality TV these days or have you graduated from, from the triggering TV that is reality TV? I have, I've,

graduated from I want to be a part of like the conversation. I want to I want to be in it. I want to know the shit that's hitting the fan at summer house and I just haven't gotten there. I mean, people think I'm like genuinely insane that I haven't gotten into it. But I will like when I sit in and I'll watch it, but I just the investment isn't there. When I tell you how invested I went like the bachelor and the bachelor's like such a big deal for me. It was like appointment television. I would started like 12 or 13 minutes after it started to air so I could like fast forward through the commercials like I was in it and I love like the competition shows but I'm not a housewife I'm not into the housewives and anything like that that's totally okay although I do love

Kathy Hilton and I like on the on Instagram when those things like well when she's talking about the toothless not homeless or like that I'll watch that 400 times so I think I would really like it. I just need to get back into it. Well, maybe this will help you get back into it. Before we let you go, we have a fun, you know, silly little game for you. And it's basically with the assumption that you haven't been watching a lot of reality TV lately.

And because we have, we're just so in it, we're triggered, we're activated, we have these hyperbolic responses. I love this. We want your like, I'm not watching reality TV, objective opinion about these relationship situations. Great.

And get your take. I could not be more perfect for this. Perfect. We love it. I'm in. I'm in. Third party takes. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll basically just like read some scenarios for you and get your, that have happened in reality TV. And we're going to get your take on it. Like what would you tell your friend if they were involved in this situation? All right. So this starts with, with some drama going on in Love Island right now. Okay. Your best friend is in an open relationship with a guy. She crashes out when he talks to another girl and then decides to talk and kiss other guys. eyes. Now he is forming a connection with someone new right when she wants to commit to him. Do you have any advice for how this friend should move forward in this situation? I would say lesson learned because open relationships are super tricky. Set a boundary and most likely move on. All right. This one is from Rhode Island.

You receive photo and video evidence that your best friend's husband is cheating. he convinces her the evidence is old or fake AI and your friend believes him she becomes angry with you for persisting when you try to share new evidence what would you do as her friend? My favorite part of that line is it's either old or fake. You decide.

Yeah, it's either old or fake. I love that we're now in an era where you could be like caught red-handed and blame it on AI. I didn't realize this is amazing. It's so crazy. You're right though because you really almost to survive in society, you have to almost be like,

everything you see, you have to be, is that real? Questioning. Yeah. Yeah. Scary. I think that having experienced something similar to this, if I have a friend whose husband is, like, that's so blatant, I'm guessing that she probably is not, like, ready to admit that this is the state of

her relationship. So I probably would step back. And, I mean, I wouldn't. want to force her into that, especially because I don't know the situation per se, but if she has like kids or whatever, like there's always more of a reason to stay or you can convince yourself of that. But knowing that, you know, when it all comes crashing down, I will not be there to say, I told you so. I will be there to just be like, welcome. Let's pick up the pieces now. You're a good friend. And then we have one from the Real Housewives of Atlanta, which is

pretty simple. Your best friend files for bankruptcy. What's your advice for? What's my advice for my best friend filing for bankruptcy? Yeah, what is your advice for your best friend who opens up to you and admits you're the first person she's admitted this to that she's filing for bankruptcy? Well, I'd probably want to know why. I mean, is there like, have you committed a crime? Irresponsible business practices. Should I be having this conversation with you or am I now an accessory?

She said the FBI is not involved. Yeah, exactly. But then, but I will say I'm a bit of a body barrier. for my friends and I didn't realize that until a friend of mine and I'm not like super proud of this but I'm going to say it a friend of mine had an affair um a long time ago a long long time ago and I was like all right let's damage control like who do we got who do we got to kill who do we got to bury like let's like I went into crisis PR mode so I may I would have to say like I may go into that depending on the circumstances.

It's still in your bones. It's a little in my bones. I'm Cuban. I'm like fierce. Fiercely loyal. I love it. Okay. Our last one. Your best friend starts dating your ex after you've had a complicated relationship with him for years. You also vented to her for years about this relationship. She announces the relationship on Instagram and doesn't seem to have much remorse. photos come out of them attending a wedding together, another photo of her spitting in his mouth. How would you handle the situation? No.

No, that's a hard note. What if I changed who you are? You're a mutual friend of both. You're not the person who was married to the ex, but your mutual friends. You have one friend who was married to someone for 10 years. Your other friend starts dating them, and the friend who's dating him is convinced

it's worth it and they're in love and she's never been happier. But this ex also has like eight other women he's talking to. No. This is a no. This is a,

there's just certain things in life that are like, off limits. If the wife, the ex-wife was dead? Yeah. She dead. She dead.

I mean, if someone was dead, I'd be like, okay, maybe it's like meant to be and she's sending you as this angel and this gift and I could probably like work my way through that. But like, why are we opening that door

to begin with? Great question. It just feels like there's no, like, you don't tell me the soulmate situation. There's a lot of great guys out there. Uh-uh. We're not doing this. That's amazing. Joanna, this has been so much fun. Thanks for taking the time to talk with us.

I need to Google all these stories. I'm like, am I going to go viral for being a total animal? You have a lot to catch up on. Honestly, if all you do is this watch the summerhouse, for union. You're good. You're good.

You'll get everything you mean. Yeah. There's so much to unpack there. It's fun. I'm going to have to probably circle back to deal with like this emotionally. So thank you guys so much for opening, unlocking this new obsession in me. Jana, thanks for taking the time. The show is Sweet Magnolias.

I know many of you are already watching it. You're obsessed with it. Season 5 is out on Netflix now. If you haven't checked that out, I know everyone who listens to this show would be a fan of Sweet Magnolias. It's right in your real house. It's like almost, it's like script. reality TV in a way. It is.

So if you need more of that fix, check out Sweet Meanylius if you haven't already. Joanna, thanks so much for taking the time. We appreciate you. Thanks for having me. You guys are amazing. And congratulations on your twins. Thank you so much.

So great talking with you. That was a pleasure for us. Thanks so much. Come back. Well, you know, we're experiencing some big changes in our life coming up. We've got twins on the way. And when you have twins, you need a lot of car seats. So that has caused us to have to get a new vehicle.

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moisturizer free when you spend $75 or more. That's C-L-E-R-S-T-E-M dot com slash V-I-A-L. Add the mini-Hydroglo to your cart and use code V-I-A-L at checkout for a free gift with purchase when you order $75 or more. It's always fun to hear the perspective of someone who doesn't reality TV. when we're, you know, when we're, who doesn't watch. I'm sorry, it doesn't do what with reality TV? I always, well, you know, reality TV?

Us sickos who are like, are you reality TV, like sometimes we're just too far in it. Sometimes you have to get the perspective of these relationships we talk about with someone like Joanna who isn't necessarily watching them all and is just part of like humanity. Yeah, which is also so refreshing because you're like, oh. Yeah, you know. Yeah. You're right. There's like other things. Yeah. We'll be like, oh my God, that psychosoopath and blah, blah, blah.

It's like, well, yeah, my friend kind of did that, you know, and they made a mistake, but they've moved on and they rectified. I'm like, oh, you know, like the human experience of like conflict, resolution, moving forward, not like burning it all down. I forget sometimes that people have healthy coping mechanisms. It's like when I, every time I talk to my best friend, Chambliss, I'm like, oh my God, this is what's going on. She's the most removed from pop culture, reality TV. And she's always like, who is that? What is that? I'm like, I love that about you.

I love that. My mom sometimes would be like, yeah, I love listening to like the show you're on and whatever. I never have any idea. The tagline of all of reality fans, it should be to stay triggered. I was going to say, I'm like, I can't relate. I'm texting with my friends from morning tonight being like, this broken bit, like we know each other. So, yeah. I'm obsessed.

No, you said it's parisocial and I would have it no other way. No other way. Well, speaking of staying triggered, I want to know how, Jennifer. Jennifer Lawrence actually figured it out. Guys, really quick, I just want to say that when this originally, this rumor came about, I was told that we couldn't talk about it on the show. But guess what? I was right.

It was Jennifer Lawrence. Well, I don't know if you were right. I didn't come up with the idea. But I thought that we should believe the rumor. We don't like platforming rumors. Well, I believed the rumor in my bones. And you guys were like, no. But how did she figure it out?

It does seem strange. I remember when, like, the rumor. came about we don't platform rumors so we obviously didn't talk about it. I was so sad. But obviously I remember reading it and I remember people saying like there's no way that Jennifer Lawrence would be like the reason that someone lost their job. You know like there's no way that she would like admittedly. I don't think she was trying to be the reason someone lost her their job. I think she was trying to investigate and do what she felt was right in the moment. Jennifer Lawrence is really just like doing her civic duty. Like she's being an act.

participant. But I still want to know how she figured it out. She's trying for Lauren. She has so many assets. I like to believe that like she's such a big Bravo fan that like every time she's like in the clubhouse or like anything, she's like taking down numbers and like meeting people. She knows the bloggers. And then asking for like behind the scene

scoop and then being like, um, I have a whole roll of decks. People that I could text being like, you know who leave there. Here's what I think happened. Here's how I think she found out. Jennifer Lawrence probably gabin with her assistant about this, right? Her assistant probably is within the assistant network

because they're all giving their gap and they're talking to each other. The assistants also know the PAs. The PAs are working on set at Bravo. Jennifer Lawrence's assistant is probably going to do the work if Jen asked her to find contact info of a PA that worked on the Summer House reunion and that's how Jennifer Lawrence was investigating and got the information. I almost guarantee it. So you're saying it wasn't Jennifer Lawrence said to the work.

But I'm saying it. Andy made it seem like she. Jennifer Lawrence wasn't the one who did it. Is that not the nature of the entertainment? No, Annie made it seem like, remember, what was that show? Cats. It came out during the pandemic. Don't fuck with cats.

Don't fuck with cats. Incredible documentary. But like that whole community that sleuth that whole, like, Annie made it seem like she was like going, like balancing from page to page looking at, like saw something that no one else saw and she discovered something. That's how he made it seem that she did. It was an audio leak. So it really. I don't know. Or maybe Jennifer Lawrence

hired a forensic. Hired of forensic analyst. She Meredith Marks that shit and got the FBI involved. Or she runs secretly. The only other option possible is that she secretly runs

a Bravo blog that's huge. Is Jennifer Lawrence A blogger? And the person who recorded the video sent it out. To the bloggers. And Jennifer Lawrence runs a blog page. Wait.

That might. That actually has More than the assistant? 100%. I'm like, I believe that if she has an assistant, her assistant has a job to do. Okay. That's not. You think her assistant is booking a reservation right now.

Like, you know what? She cannot figure out with the kids. Okay. You genuinely don't think that if hers, that would not be put on top of booking the reservation, that assistant would be doing both at once for Jen. She's got kids. She, like, I'm just like, I just couldn't imagine that she's like, you know what? Take as much time as you need to investigate the internet because I'd pay you to not do that.

I just think it's a very likely thing. Does she run a blank thing? page. Damn. I think both of, I think it's 50-50 for me on which one of those is true.

Overall, it was a good reunion. I was going to say, definitely part three saved because we finally got like some hard questioning with West. We had that weird moment with Amanda like

while they were on break and she walks up to Kyle. Did y'all keep that and like how she like literally like submerged herself into him and it was just kind of like wait, post this conversation of you guys being exclusive

and this timeline and all of this. shit and then it's just like the first person you run to for comfort isn't your boyfriend but then no he's not her boyfriend they're not using those words but then but then yes but then yes nick continue Kyle in the most like vulnerable way like you know a man's really crying when he's you hear that blubber that like that you know because like you know us boys like it's an uncomfortable thing to feel those emotions and yeah you're trying it's like that turn to turn to like choked, you know, down kind of thing.

And he was doing that. And he's just like, vulnerably like, I just like, we dated, we were together for 10 years and we're talking about it like there was nothing good about it. And Amanda goes, I know. She also said, I'm sorry. And just like walks away. Like she doesn't give a fuck. Like, no.

She said, I'll call you tomorrow. And that's where I was like, okay, so we can finesse his feelings and make him feel better about the situation even though like what's happening right here is just so not okay. And that's where I'm like, I'm sorry, but even watching a man. is like answering or saying how sorry she felt and everything that she's gone through with this uh her decision by the way i'm like it just makes me feel like just nothing is genuine with her that i feel like she's saying things to kyle to keep him feeling i don't know like he not that he owes her something but like

kind of making him feel comfortable enough that it's like i don't really know what i'm doing but i need you here for comfort i need you here for stability i don't see it as like nothing genuine because i more see it in like those moments where I think it was in between scenes and I don't know who said it but someone was like Amanda acknowledged like maybe I'll regret this

all. It was her and Bailey having a conversation right and it was kind of like so here at least that was like all right some kind of like recognition that like you are making a choice and that choice might go south. We never even heard that acknowledgement and that was at least somewhat humanizing

of Amanda and then you hear these glimpses, you know, then the reveals from West where Amanda was obviously receiving new information, but what seems so like crazy, shocking, surprising, it's just like, Amanda clearly is, the thing that Amanda never seemed to register, you know, through all the, like, the insincere apologies to Sierra and her, like, you know, limited responses to this whole situation was the fact that, like, she was almost, almost kind of making sense when she was, like, you know, trying to talk about her friendship to Sierra to see her. Sierra. But like the way she validates her feelings, it's just like, I felt this way about West.

And like, and everyone else is trying to explain to her, you're a 30 year old person. Yep. You know, we're not in high school anymore. We aren't, like, we're not, we're not saying you're crazy for feeling something. That's human. We feel things. But you still made that decision. But the difference between like what you do with those feelings and the way she talks about is if she had no choice. It happened to her. Well, it's like, sorry, can I, I just have to say, though, the The thing with the Bailey thing in her being like, oh, like maybe one day I'll wake up and I'll regret this. I was like to me that felt like a cop out. Like that felt like a maybe.

But at least she acknowledged it. Right. But she just like negates any responsibility for her decisions. West does the exact same thing. It was just kind of like, yeah, like I really wish that I got ahead of this and talk to you before this all got out of control. Maybe before you looked at Amanda and said, hey, is something happening here? That's when you should have picked up the phone and caught Kyle. West says the thing.

It's got to be so infuriating because like there's no actual response. Like there's no actually in like most like relationship experts out there. Well, you know, it's like that, you know, the sign of a healthy relationship isn't never fighting type of thing. It's like communicating and in conflict resolution. But if you're in a relation with West, it's always like, I'm a piece of shit. I'm sorry. There's no like. I hear you.

But do you really get it? I hear you. And I'm going to really think about that. And you know, I just, you know, things just kind of happened. And I just like, I really wish that it did it. It's like, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. If I heard him say I hear you one more time, like, bitch.

you got two ears, you love ear stuff. Like, we know you can hear us, but like, you're not processing and you're not responding. Or you don't care. She was also asked, I think it was the, like, will you, like, do you regret what you've done? Or do you, like, Andy asked her a question. What was the question? Was it worth it? Was it worth it?

And she said, I can't answer that right now. Huh? The answer is no. Of course it wasn't worth it. Like, regard, you and West aren't even saying you love each other yet. Like, it's not worth it. If you were in love and you were like, this is my person, I truly feel safe and protected and I just love him with every ounce of my being.

Okay, sure, maybe it was worth it. But you know what it is, though? It's like that, you know, we had Anna P. on on Tuesday, if you haven't listened to that episode, a very fantastic conversation. Anna wrote the book, Enter the Villa. She's a very accomplished entertainment journalist and had full access to, like, the Villa and producers and cast.

But in that conversation, she, you know, one thing she said that she was surprised talking to, all, you know, I think she talked to many, like maybe hundreds. I don't know. She talked to a lot of cast members and like a spectrum of experiences from, you know, mental health challenges, not like getting the pop or the fame that people wanted to like the superstars like, you know, Amaya and Leah and things like that. But she said, not one person said they regretted the experience, which I think is interesting. But it made me think about like it's sometimes too fresh. Like sometimes you honestly have to like wait five years to be like you don't go on love island quit your job kind of like change your whole life it's very difficult in those situations to be like i shouldn't have

done that you know like that's a very like scary thing to admit when you make these huge life changes that like truly like change your life forever like it changes your relationship with your friends i think when you are sitting in front of someone who is your best friend your sister and she's crying and you and your and your husband who's crying and all of these people where you know so much has changed, you've ruined so much with this decision, and you can't sit there and say, you know what, this wasn't worth it. I think she's in denial. I like him a lot, and I think it's fun. And, like, we're going to continue to see where this goes. But like, you're right. But the pressure of Amanda admitting to herself, I've lost all these friends.

People don't respect me. My fan, like, I have no fans anymore. I think if you're truly remorseful, that's easy to do. I think she's just in denial of her choices. She should have been sobbing, crying to Sierra saying I am, when she's doing her whole like, you don't deserve a friend like me. I'm really sorry for everything. I did a shitty thing. That should have been through tears. You should have been fighting to get your words out because you are so upset and disgusted with yourself for how you have acted and treated the people around you. But it was so just like a throwaway.

She looked at Sierra in her eyes. and I just don't understand how you can look at your friend, like exactly what you say, look at your friend and your sister in her eyes and not just completely crumble because that's someone you say you love. And I wonder if there's so much with Amanda that she's so caught up on like her intention, where her intention was never to hurt someone that she cannot get inside. to like the impact of her actions on others.

Yeah, she doesn't want to admit that she's doing some, you know, it's like, you know, again, we are so hyperbolic, but it's like we're either like, you're either a good person or you're a bad person. You're either normal or you're a sociopath. And like right now, she's trying to convince herself that she's not a bad person that like people don't understand. It's like her whole narrative is you don't understand me. You don't understand my plight.

You have an entire couch of people ranging in different emotions telling you that like as clear as day what type of person West is that you are one of many you have Bailey who's pulling her aside not during filming being like hey I'm actually really worried about you I don't trust him and she's like that's fine I'll have to figure that out for myself oh what a damsel in distress and then you've got me of being like girl like I get your marriage wasn't great but like you're one of many now like why would that be the decision you've got Sierra being like this guy is with you to spite me like you have so much range you've got Kyle talking to his ex girl to West ex-girlfriend the preview for the conversation for next week.

You know, we have West and Kyle, but also we have... Sierra and Miha. And you, Amia said that she got a text from West following the filming of the reunion saying you won. What? That's crazy.

First of all, manipulative. You know, it's just like, it's kind of like, it's making her feel like, you know, they were like going against each other. And I'm going to bet Amanda didn't know that he texted her that. I'm sure as hell she didn't. You won.

And then what do you mean you won? Like just because she spoke her truth and she had an experience where you like manipulated her and you did the thing that like the classic kind of douchebag guy in reality TV does, which is to like use your, you know, fantastical experience of reality TV of which so many people are fascinated with. So many people don't understand, you know, is it real? Is it not? Is it just a job and things like that?

And the truth is it's always somewhere in between. And he used that to manipulate and keep his secret girlfriend. friend, like, confused about the reality of his life. And instead of just being like, hey, he went through a whole reunion of an entire cast of people trying to explain to him how he is incredibly insensitive, how he invalidates people's feelings. And then again, he's just like, you're right. I hear it.

And his response wasn't to, like, reach out to her and say, you know what? I'm realizing now that I really played you for a fool and I took you, you know, I manipulated the situation. And for what it's worth, I'm sorry. You won? So again, the conversation that's happening, which I know you don't like the buzzwords and all the things, but like sociopathic behavior. I'm going to read the definition. People with ASPD consistently disregard social norms.

Like, I don't know, not fucking your friend's wife. Lack empathy for others. Watch that for three episodes. And manipulate, deceive or exploit people for personal gain, usually without feeling guilt or remorse. That is a sociopath, which is different from a psychopath. Cook him. I'm sorry, he has no empathy. Generally speaking, you know me,

I just think it's generally a lazy take for us society to like name people narcissists and sociopath because like we all can be incredibly selfish and the thing about these, again, none of us are doctors. So like maybe we're all wrong. I don't know.

But like it's the consistency. That's the patterns. It has to happen over a... And I don't mean through it out a reunion. I mean like... But I'm saying multiple reunions. Consistency. He said this is a million.

A zillion of women. Maybe he is. I just think it's more interesting to talk about people in the way that we do because we all are complex people. We all have seasons of incredible selfishness.

We do sometimes, we sometimes burn our world around us and then have to hit rock bottom, get therapy and blah, blah, blah, and learn about our childhood. And like, there's often a path forward for people who make really destructive decisions

in their life. But that usually happens on your first destructive mistake. You know? West Wilson has so many patterns going on with him, I feel like I'm on mushrooms watching him walk around. Like that is the kind of man that we're seeing. And he uses these words and this buzz phrases, yes. Buzz phrases of like understanding and accountability. And he's so intelligent

about the way he uses semantics within his relationships. And that's really what, like, he knows exactly what he's doing. And I just don't think you can extend like as much empathy towards him is like not calling him a sociopath the way he low-key. Answering that question about like is that your girlfriend and like the way that like he gave 16 different answers of like well she thought she was no I never said that well I broke up

with her I think in like November and then I said flowers on Valentine's Day and serious that was lying but then I sent her home to go to a game that was in January going back and forth Amanda being like she's like oh I didn't have all of this information at the time and I'm like well you have it now have a reaction at least

also he I believe he started off this reunion being like, I know we have lied to everyone on this stage. And I know it's going to take like you're not going to believe anything that we have to say. But like we did not sleep together at all. We were not physical in 2025 at all. And he's like giving all these things. And he's like, these are the facts, right? And I know you're not going to believe me.

And then we have the clip for the bonus episode where he's like, you want the honest truth? I've been in love with her for a really long time. And it's like, why are you still lying? Literally. Because it's the semantics. It's the, is it that they physically cheat, emotionally cheat. You know, they are, Amanda and West are like, we didn't physically cheat and therefore that's the time. But they asked the question, are you in love?

And they both were like, we're not, well, we're not using that word. We're not saying that. We've had those conversations. Okay. But then in your conversation with Kyle, West is going to say I've been in love with her for a really long time. So you can't be mad at me, man, because like, it's my feelings. But like, you couldn't say that at the reunion. You couldn't say that at the reunion.

Also, at the same time, they have a relationship where they have been so close for so long that they are casually saying, I love you to each other as friends. We watched it on camera. And I do just feel like at a certain point, like if you have a relationship with someone regardless of whether it's a romantic, whether it's platon. If it's, let me rephrase, if you have a platonic relationship with someone that you're so close to them that you are saying, I love you to them and you genuinely mean it in that platonic sense and then something transpires where it becomes romantic or like there's tension you don't

get to play the card of being like oh well like we never like we're not really using those words right now it's like you have a fucking connection you have a history of you have a history of using that word easier than you say her own name and i know i know like loving someone as a friend and loving someone like being in love with someone are two different things but you just don't get to like make that argument when you're moving like that. Like, it's not a, we're just figuring it out. It's like, no, you may be destroyed an entire show for this like, I don't know, whatever situation ship?

And Kyle asking like, what, West, what is your plan? That was so endearing. Because he really does care about Amanda. And he wants to make sure that like you guys thought about something or like that you actually genuinely mean what you say. But it's like, no, Amanda's going to be one of. But I also like how Kyle did that because. Because, you know, for all the roasting we're doing of Amanda, I liked that he gave his ex-wife grace.

You know, he was married to this person for 10 years. Kyle knows her better than anyone else. You know, but also like Kyle, Kyle doesn't want to think or, you know, that he was, he wasn't married to a sociopath, you know, for 10 years or a narcissist. Like, and I think you're hearing, I think we should listen to Kyle's perspective of Amanda's experience because he knows her better than anyone. And while he's not trying to dismiss her actions and what he did, what she did to Sierra, it's just more like he's acknowledging that like, like we've been saying throughout this is like,

she was the vulnerable one. You know, like not to excuse her, but like you are in total control and you basically, you have to, you have some responsibility for either manipulating my ex-wife or not like giving a shit about her feelings in recognizing what this, what your actions could have done. And like, as we asked when this first came out, who made the first move?

Who seduced who? We now know that it was West, right? And, like, Wes was in a driver seat. Amanda is very much like, again, not excusing it, but, like, she is telling Kyle, I want you to chase me. I want you to do all these things. She is desperate, whether she's right or wrong, for, like, someone to just be obsessed with her.

Yep. And what Wes has had to do, he had to, like, fuck over Sierra. He had to fuck over Kyle. And in a sick, twisted way, a man. Amanda feels like that is meaningful. Like someone was willing to do that for her. And it's fucked up and twisted. But I'm glad that Kyle is approaching that from a place of empathy because he could have so much anger towards his ex-wife.

And the fact that he is able to like sit back and just read the situation even more objective than us fans who are like, want to be protective of Sierra and like just kind of burn it all down and like see Amanda's our ex-friend who fucked us over in the past. it was just a really great moment for Kyle. And I think it also demonstrated his like, his emotional, it was so crazy because we're so used to Kyle just like losing his shit. But the way he was so like, when he was talking to West and he just like,

well, I know that's a loaded question. You know, he's so, he really, it was just a Kyle I've never seen before where he's like clearly emotional intelligence. He's capable of like not losing his shit on a very sensitive topic

and not losing objectivity, It was great to see. He asked something and Kyle and Wes was like, no, no, no, that was when he's like, sorry, man, I'm just trying not to interrupt. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, okay, respectful.

You know, I feel like Kyle really just like, watched this season, watched his, his frankly abhorrent behavior this season and was like, fuck. I got to figure this out and I got to be like better at the reunion,

which is all anyone maybe wanted West and Amanda to do. But also I think, about like the circumstances to the fact that Kyle's keeping his cool in a circumstance of watching his wife that he's still in love with, still married to essentially, not legally separated from, with her boyfriend, defending her relationship with her boyfriend where I'm sure that's all Kyle's wanted. Remember when he was crying in the room with Carl and he was like, she's has, I can't even remember the last time she stood up for me and she's over here defending this, not terrible, but like just no moral having human being that like she, that, that I'm like, that I'm like, like I feel like that would be so hard for Kyle to sit there and be like, cool. Like you can sit here and defend this guy while we're talking about his full on girlfriend that he had while he was talking to you. All of these terrible things that he does. And yet, okay, you're going to have his back, but like, you've never had mine. And I think that that's crazy that like he's been able to like keep it cool and just like cry a little bit. And because I would probably blow up after a while. After 10 hours of watching YouTube, you defend this.

Even Carl was like, Amanda. Yeah. You're really going to choose to be with this guy after every. everything you've heard and I was like fucking yeah Carl Amanda being like okay I hear you like she was she was the way she shut Carl down immediately it was like she just was not interested in taking hearing from anyone else

she just committed to this thing she didn't want to have a conversation with anyone either she was just like I hear you even when they asked no even when they asked about the the baseball game and he was like did you say act like you like me and she was like well I

feel like it was part of the sentence, it was like the last part of the sentence that I said, like I might have said, like, and it was just kind of like, girl, you're on a jumbo tron telling this man who has five other girlfriends, act like you like me. How many more embarrassing moments of pre-dating, oh, oh my God. And then when Wes said I want to go back to happier times, that was crazy. And he goes six weeks ago. And he's like, just when we like, you know, weren't like dealing, oh, when you were being secretive and you were hiding and you were like, playing in everyone's face. That's what you want to go back to.

How can Amanda try? That part is crazy. I forgot all about all the breadcrumming. Well, like when we were debating whether this rumor was happening and we were like using the information of like West liking certain comments and Amanda having certain posts and we were all like there is no way they're doing this because there's no way they would play with us like that and they would rub it in our faces only for it to have been true. And now Amanda's like that was just all.

one big coincidence? No, it's not. And Sierra being like, girl, you know how girls post on Instagram. And I was like, thank you. Yeah, all the close friends posting, deleting until he sees it, then you delete it. Like the... You're playing Gatsby rules on Instagram. I was going to say, and I've done the same thing.

So, like, that's why I was like, Amanda Baby, like, you're too old to be playing from this playbook. What do you think they were thinking in that moment? That they're getting away with it, that they're pulling one over. that it's just their own little special world. It couldn't have been a good in a way with because they must have known this will eventually come out. That must have been them thinking that we would all like root for them. I honestly, this is what I was saying in the beginning in the intro,

I genuinely believe that Amanda thinks everyone around her is dumber than she is. Because there's just no fucking way. I'm telling you, I did this. I broke up with an ex. If you're watching, sorry to confess this decade later. But I went to Disneyland and I posted a caption that was like with my friend. friend who also just went through a breakup and said a little less heavy or a little lighter or something like that of us just like back to back Mary Kate and Ashley style and that's where it was

like and then he texted me and was like are you fucking kidding da-da-da-da-da-da and I was like oh my god it's not about you like we broke up get over it can I just be a little lighter can I be a little lighter can I be a little happier and it's like yes of course it was 100% to dig at you you're like I just took a poop I didn't eat any of the corn dogs since I've been here I'm feeling a little lighter what's with the fucking questioning okay we're not together I'm Sorry, sorry it was golden hour. And like, when he like kind of like, what, acquiesced to whatever the fuck I said, I was like, I got him. When you're posting like that or doing whatever, you're actively trying to get a reaction.

But isn't it crazy just how committed she is to the bit, so to speak, in the sense that like, we're all watching it. We're all watching the entire cast call out West for this. Just like paint a very accurate picture. And then Wes is like admitting like, yeah, no, I've been a piece of shit. I've lied to a zillion women. Like a zillion is so crazy. But he's like, I'm ready to not be that guy anymore. And all Amanda is hearing is he's doing this for me.

You know, like, that's kind of, that has to be the only explanation is that like, that's all she's hearing is that he's willing to do this for me. Well, everyone else is like hearing, you're going to bet your entire future on a guy who has a track record of. Big dishonest. Cheating. Not even cheating. Just not committing. Like the criminal who's been a. like in and out jail his whole life he gets out and you know but like he's gonna he's gonna do it for me

maybe probably like is it possible maybe not you know like but she is so it's crazy how how like locked in she is do you think there's a world where Amanda knows that she made the wrong decision but she is never going to actually publicly own up to it or say anything about it and she has just decided that she's going to deal with the mess she made. She just went to Italy. Like I think she's very much 10 toes down on staying with West. I kind of agree with Mary. I started her

emotional cord knows that she did the bad thing. Right. Like she did and had this reunion, has the whole internet against her. And she's kind of just like, well, okay. And she's just going with it like that and not like having

I think there's part of her that that thinks because we look at like the way she was talking about her self-worth and stuff throughout the season. She obviously has a lot of stuff that, like, she doesn't believe in herself in that way. And when you get into a relationship with a guy like West, she's picking these guys that, like, Andy called her out on it. West being like Kyle 2.0 of being this guy that's like taking over. And so she doesn't have to do anything.

I just think it's safer for her to like stay in a position with a man like that, then actually have to like go out on her own and be independent in the way that Sierra was like really trying to get her to be independent. which she then did use that independence to like stabs here in the back and then get with her eyes. When you make a big choice and a big bet and it starts going south, like, you know,

come back to the, an appeal comparison. Like, we've talked about this. Clayton Eckhart, you know, Bachelor. Obviously he's had a very crazy post-batchel experience. Very different than many bachelors, you know. And it's just like, imagine being the one lead in a franchise of leads

that have a various amounts of success and and everything that's happened to you post-batchel has been nothing but just traumatic, horrible experience. It's going to be very difficult to like sit with yourself and be like, I wish I said no to that opportunity. That's why most people are, it's the whole like everything happens for a reason. I'm going to learn from my mistakes, which is like part of life and like that's how you get through these traumatic experiences. But to face that reality that I made a choice and that choice drastically like changed my life for the worst is a very difficult thing to just accept and face.

I agree with that. If it were talking about just like a normal person, however, also came out in the reunion that she decided to not watch the rest of the season based off of knowing what people are going to say about her and like that she's getting attached no matter what online. I think personally, if you have the gift to be able to watch how your behavior was a year prior and you have the ability to change that. Only if you're ready. Yeah, but I'm like, but it's also part of her job.

And like that's what I'm saying is like you've got Kyle, right, who had to sit there and watch the worst summer of his life that ended his marriage essentially. And what was going on behind the scenes and things that looked weird and like feeling like he was being told one thing but seeing things that play out completely differently. And I'm like, that man had to stay up till 3 a.m. to watch the season finale to come to do this reunion. Just he the worst thing that could possibly happen. Of him yelling, getting in a fight with his best friend, does the stuff between him and Amanda. And I'm just like, so, and then we're over here praising Kyle's behavior at this reunion. Obviously, he learned some things about himself, where I'm like,

Amanda's sitting here being like, yet again, the victim of a situation, you made choices, your behavior plays out in a certain way. You should be able to defend yourself. And I was like, part of probably why she has nothing to say is because she doesn't know what the fuck we saw. Like, you know, outside of major clips and whatever Bravo's putting out there, like, you're not. not watching the nuances of like the conversations between you and Sierra. You probably don't even remember them or you're not going to highlight them in in this conversation because if anything, it's better to remove that from your memory and be like, we were never that close or like it wasn't that serious or like all of this happened to me, but it has nothing to do with summer. She was like,

you guys were all in the house. You saw what was happening and it wasn't like that. Right. But you guys all have a very weird relationship. West is very handsy with everyone. So nobody thought twice about it to me as point that it's like, that's weird. Yeah. That like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amanda's a victim in the situation. She's going through a terrible marriage. Nobody once assumed that you two would do something like this. So watching things back and seeing how it played out, it would have been to her strength to be like, okay, I realize what this looked like and this is what was actually happening the moment before.

But instead, she gave herself no grace whatsoever to be able to say anything and just sat there like a zombie because she has no defense. Well, that's, and I think that's what I'm trying to figure out with her of like, obviously this is a really dramatic like. And I'm not saying Amanda, like, I'm not saying this the same thing. But like, if you like, Are you going to compare to a serial killer like Janet did to Danny? No, not a serial killer. But it's like if you do something absolutely terrible, right? And you hurt someone. A lot of the times that memory and like the knowledge that you did that, like certain people cannot look at that. And the point of taking like actual like accountability and stuff is like taking the time to look at that and realizing what you did and why you feel that way and why you feel so disgusting. with yourself about it, right? And Amanda can't do, like, she's just not going to look at that. Well, she came, she's going to, you know what I mean. Yeah.

And but she's going to say, and her and West both do the same thing where it's like, and it's just what internet accountability is, like, when people are asking for it. It's like, you want someone to say that they're going to do the thing. But, like, no one's actually just, like, going to sit. I mean, Kyle obviously did, and you see the impact that out on it. Sierra did. Sierra did. Everyone actually just, like, sat with themselves and were, like,

like, damn, I can't believe I did that. It's almost like she knows that Sierra's never going to forgive her. So it's like, why bother? Which is, you know, because like for yourself. Yeah, for yourself and for future friendships. Because, yeah, sometimes we do things in life where we don't get a second chance. Sometimes you fuck over someone where they're like, listen, you maybe not be a horrible person, but like I can never get to the place that we were.

Fine. You move on. But like to that, to your point, just like, don't you want to like reconcile with what you did because don't you plan on making more friends in the future? You know, when you, like, you cheat on someone and like you date again and then that person, you know, you have that, have you ever cheated on someone before? But like, yeah, that was like five years ago. And the person you're dating is kind of trying to figure out whether you've like, are you still that person, once a cheater, always a cheater, or are you someone who's like, you made a mistake and then you

figured it out. And how many years is it? Like, if you're going to be friends with a man in the future, you're going to want to have a similar conversation of like, yeah, I mean, listen, like, you fucked over a friend. I fucked over a friend too, but like, how did you, And if you're just like, well, no one understands me. This wasn't my fault. They thought this, but this was the real story. Like, how could you want to be friends with Amanda? And, you know, because, again, people make mistakes,

but you just want to know that someone like was sorry and they regret it. And if that friend they fucked over was willing to be their friend, they wish they could, but they accept that like they're not, they can't ask that friend to be their friend anymore. But that doesn't mean they're like not allowed to have friends. You just want to see the humanity and the like the ownership so that you can forward but Amanda's just like nah but to that point the only thing she said about like moving forward is I have a lot to think about I'm leaving here with just like a lot that I have to think about it's like

no I want to hear that you are you have a lot to work on I have so much that I have to like figure out about myself I have a lot to work on in therapy I have like inner demons and problems that this like this shouldn't have happened I shouldn't have allowed this to happen and I want to figure out why I want to figure out why I allowed it to happen. And I'm going to figure that out. And like, if you want to have that conversation later in life, when I do, when I come to that conclusion, I would love to sit down with you and explain to you how I got to this point and what dark roads led me here. But it was just like, I just have like some stuff to like think about when I leave here. When Andy asked her about like, it wasn't worth it and whatnot, she was just like selfishly,

like, I wish I could have both. And like, that's where I was like everything that you have said. After this entire reunion. All of your apartment. apologies, everything, no and void. Because I'm sorry. Like, you don't understand. You're not hearing. Because if you ever thought that there was a world in which you could have both or like, to say that out loud.

It's so disrespectful. So disrespectful. The audacity. You know. And the final thing before we move on to Love Island, we see this preview of Lindsay and Amanda having this conversation. And it seems like Amanda is like almost the follow up to a reunion where it's just like, have you thought about all the things that were revealed over a reunion?

You got to like leave West and blah, blah, blah. And if you just saw that preview, you're like, oh, maybe Amanda has decompressed from the reunion. Maybe she's like, now actually it's all kind of processing all, like, all these decisions West has made. But we see them in Italy. We see them at, like, so whatever conversation we're going to watch next week, clearly didn't land. And they're, they're clearly moving forward, which is like, we know, we know how it ends. And it's, it's nuts. I just want to know if West Wilson is going to take to one of his little podcast clips about this spitting in the mouth in Italy. Yeah. Yeah. Let me hear what Sophie Cunningham has to say about West spitting in a

or whatever. I think it was like Amanda like spitting olive in a mind. You know, like a grape or like an olive. I don't think she was like hawking a loogie. Who knows who cares? The point is, is they are fully into this thing. And you were in public. And they're truly, they're trying to prove everyone wrong. They're considering maybe soon saying that their boyfriend girlfriend. They must be. All right, is it time to get into some Love Island? Well, actually, right before we

transition, I do have a question for you guys involving in the city. So we had that whole drama with Andrea and Lexi because Kyle repeated the story about Kenny and Whitney and saying there was no spark and then Andrea kind of elaborated and added in there that like... Bersie murky.

Yes. My favorite word to describe it. But I thought it was like really interesting how the conversation between Kenny and Lexi was like he was saying that you're gossiping with Andrea talking about my relationship. So I guess my question to you guys, is it considered gossiping if you're telling your partner like what you've seen, what you've heard coming home and... No, I don't think so. If you don't specifically say like don't tell Nick, you just should assume that anything that is said to me will be said to him. Also, step further. If you're talking to anyone who you assume has a pretty solid relationship, marriage, and you go, don't tell anyone, not even your husband,

and they'd be like, oh, for sure, totally I won't. They're lying to you. I want to tell my husband even more. I'm texting him. Don't forget when I get home, I have to tell you something. I'm reporting the conversation as we are talking. Unless it's something that, like, involves your partner. Yeah.

And like specifically for a very specific reason they cannot know. And you feel you're like, yeah, you're right. We can't tell this person at this time. In most cases, the husbands don't. You're like that the drama will stop with, they're not going to tell anyone. But you just got to be careful because every once in a while, your friend's married to a gossip. Yeah. Well, you know, and that's kind of think what the issue is, right, that like Lexi had told Whitney what was repeated.

But I'm also kind of like, if my husband tells me something that your partner said, about you that I think you have a right to know, am I in the wrong for repeating it? No. I do also wonder how this works with like, I could never be married to someone who is a spy or someone in the FBI. The Americans would never work for you.

The Americans would never work for it. In fact, we tried watching that show. We tried watching and it wasn't working for me. You're not a Matthew Rees-Carrie, Russell girl. But like a HIPAA violation, would it work for me? And NDA, you know, I, we're at the, it's just me and you. Like, just tell me what illness or what, like, disease she has coming out of her body. I want to know, doctor, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. No, I fully agree. HIPAA does not, does not. In fact, I'll go a step further. If someone is, like, mad about the fact that they told their partner and they are also in a relationship, I'm like, it's not going to end well for you. Well, because that means if they have the expectation that they can keep secrets from their husband or wife. Right.

Which isn't that Avon's husband? Didn't he say that he signed an NDA earlier this season? I don't know if he was joking or not. But he did say that he's got super fancy clients he can't talk about. And he's had to sign NDAs. And he hasn't even told Avon. Yeah, I think he's just confirming his NDA. You know, she knows every single one of those clients.

There's no way. And if any of my clients are watching this, I do not. talk about any of them with my wife. No, I do not. Do you think the NDAs say not even your wife? They should if they really want to work. Yeah.

I wonder if that would hold up in the court of law. But it's also like... I only told my husband. She went into my file, found the document, and read it. If the judge is married, I feel like the judge would be like, that's your bad.

Sounds about right. What's also like, let's say you have like, you know, a death. in an office and then you have your secret file in a drawer in that desk. Does your partner not have a key to that drawer? And if they don't, red flag, you know? It's like having a password to your phone. Yeah. So it's like you really can't keep information. I wonder if Melanie and sincere would have this level of open communication with each other. They're actually fairly communicative. They are. Well, they're both like a little bit of liars.

They're definitely communicating. They're saying words to each other. But who is a worst liar? I would say. I think they're pretty neck and nice. I'm a sincere fan. Overall, I really quite like them. And I think this cast so far, season eight,

is a likable and a little bit more emotionally mature than at least season seven. Yes. Sure. Yeah, I'm not watching them being like, what? I do appreciate the conversation. There's an effort to talk.

Yeah, it's like the last couple of episodes I've started to like change my tune. The first few episodes, I was like, if I see one more tongue and trail of saliva, I'll lose it. Well, they got all the hoardiness out. And now that's left is emotion. The way Caleb kisses versus the way Gabriel kisses. I'll sign up. I'm sorry. I take back what I said about Gabe.

No, no, no. Yeah. Gabe. And I'm going to say it. Say it. I'm going to slut shame him. He's a slut. Okay? Like the way that their man

You want to go up to Saltat? And then he's like, it's too hot right here And he's like, you know what I want, you know what I mean, he just want of us A hundred percent You know what I want and then kisses her and then he's like Oh, did someone see that? And then takes Jen and then speaks Spanish to her Like, do you know what I just taught you?

She's like, obviously not. No, I just repeated you. He said great. Like he, I'm, I actually, I can't take any more of Gabe. I'm going to be so for real. I'm with you. I think he's sweet. I also kind of like that soul after she kissed him.

Like I was like, I have never actually really thought about this process before. But like I relate to it when she was like, yeah, like, I don't know. I almost feel like you can taste like pheromones and like that it was just like I instantly got the ick. And I was like, you can see it. Yeah. There was a great answer. And it almost felt like a little bit of bullshit where it was more like, no, you're

just kind of picking up on these signals. And then your reframing is like you have the super power of tasting pheromones. but then she kissed Sincere And then she goes Yeah I feel like Gabe's breath stunk And she was like She was like this is bad

And I'm not interested And then sincere she was like Yeah now I'm down He just put some mouthwash in And she was like I'm here And I'm there hormones taste But the way Saul makes Like sincere is like a school boy

Talking to you know like Yeah It's already easier Soul has this very light energy To her That being said I do think Melanie's lie is less egregious than sincere's lie

because Melanie lie is like, I know it's like technically a little gas-leddy, but it's just like one of those stupid lies that we all tell when we're in the middle of a fight with our partner and you're like you just the playing dumb lie. You know, and she's trying to convince sincere like he really, I didn't know.

Like whatever. Like, and it's just kind of bullshit but like everyone knows it's bullshit. He's like, I was wearing blind really? You think I could see? You both know that you both know it's bullshit. Yeah. And it's just like. just kind of rolls his eyes and kind of was like, okay, whatever. But sincere

is like he made up with Soul twice. And the first time was hot and heavy. And then Melanie asked him about it. And first of all, the fact that she has to... No, before Melanie even asked, Soul said, are you going to tell Melanie that we kissed? And his

response to that is, I mean, if she asks, incorrect. Absolutely incorrect. No, your answer is like, yeah, of course. We're in a couple. We're in a couple. I have to be, I said I was going to be up front. And then, yeah, and he does the thing where he's just kind of playing a,

dumb in a different way, where he's just maneuvering around the truth. And like a way that men out, which is, what feels more like he's really trying to hide something. We're like, and Melanie knows everyone knows. Like she's not actually trying to hide it. And she's really not convincing anyone. She's not like, no. She's not like standing 10 toes down. Well, Melanie was like, did y'all kiss in the speakeasy?

Speak easy. And he's like, yeah. And she's like, okay, well, who kiss first? And he tells the story from the first time that they kissed, where she did say, like, you know, I want to kiss you again. And he was like right now. And she was like, yeah. And then they, like, she did ask the first time.

The second time, that was mutual. Uh-huh. Yeah. And then he said, we've had two, one conversation. We've talked once. Like, you said two. And I kind of wish Melanie would have caught that and been like, wait. y'all talk twice what happened the first time you'll talk

I really don't I think they're setting us up because so tonight when you guys listen to this there's the fan vote and they who do the fans want you to pair the bombshells up with so now it's really being set up I do not want Melanie to leave I saw this tweet and it said and it had it had a picture of Leah and Rob and then it had a picture of Jeremiah and Huda and then it had a picture of sincere and Melanie And it said, like, the importance of, like, that early couple and how it, like, sets up the show is so important.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's so true, right? Because, like, early on, we're not really invested in these individual characters. We don't know who we care about. Again, that's so early this season, they're, like, the winner of Love Island, we probably haven't met yet. You know what I'm saying? Like, the people we are the biggest fans of, we may not have met yet, right? So it's so early. But we're, you have to get so invested in a couple, even if it's a little toxic.

a little messy if you know it's going to last. But like sincere and Melanie really are caring so far the show in a meaningful way. And it's so true, like the importance of that early couple that like you are not sure if you care about yet, but they show like those kind of cracks in the relationship. And I will be really upset if Melanie goes up.

I love soul for sincere. I don't think Melanie and sincere should end up together. I love sincere has this kind of gentle energy and soul is kind of this kind of peaceful. Like Melanie is a little bit more. like high and low but Melanie unlike you know compare you know a lot of people comparing her to hooda hooda hooda would never apologize the way Melanie has melanie is like quick to be like you know what i really fucked up i see that sincere was like you disrespected me and she was like she listened

she was really willing to receive that she got a little defensive but like not in a way that and like that's you know that's for some people not for others you know like she's always going to be probably emotional in these like very like difficult conversations Give me 10. But like she all, she's always, she does talk through it, you know?

Melanie just reads to me as like a normal girl. Like she, she just has like things to work on and with her communication skills. I also, and her like insecurities and whatever, obviously in relationships and like attachment style. But it's like, who among us?

Don't. You know? That being said, I saw a tweet that was like, here's a compilation of all of the sincere and Melanie happy moments. And it was six, It was 16 seconds long. I did see that.

Yeah. I don't know. I think she's, I just, I think because of last season and the way, like how toxic it got last season, I want people to just like be a little nice to Melanie because I'm traumatized. I think it's going to be kind of like the Huda Leah kind of situation where it's like, obviously if they are the first early couple, whatever's going to happen with this recount. I don't think Melanie is going home. It's either going to, she's going to be left single and vulnerable.

But who do you think? I think Corbin. Corbin. Yeah. Kenzie goes to Caleb. Corbyn goes to Melanie. I don't exactly see. So Kenzie goes to Corbyn.

Kenzie and Caleb are definitely going to be paired up. Who's Melanie going to be paired up with them? Melanie will be alone and Corbyn will be alone. I think they'll look at each other and be like, hey, maybe let's explore this. So you don't think there's going to be a dumping? I don't think so because I think it's too early. And I also have one. Yeah.

And I feel like, and Sean made sense going home. So I'm like, I feel like what they're going to do is that they're going to keep them in the house single and vulnerable. Or switch them up. And then or bring in some bombshells specifically for them to spice up the whole sincere soul of it all. Does he want to be with the girl he just met? Or does he now realize that he made a mistake by like going into soul and leaving Melanie? Like I think that's going to be like part of her early days drama. How old is Kenzie?

I also need to take back whatever I said about Kenzie being gone early. I really want her to stay. Right? She's amazing reality television. This girl like I'm captivated. She's fantastic. But just a small critique to Kenzie. It's like the wind she was like, 69 is so fun.

Like, that's like, you know, you know in high school where you're like, oh, whipped cream is fun or like sex in a hot tub. Like, you know, the idea of those things can be fun. But like the practicality of any of those things, it's kind of like. I think she's 21 or 22 because she just graduated. Oh, 24? She should know by now that 69 is like. 24, you've tried it out like at least a couple times.

And you're like, Corbin hasn't. Well, Corbin's 22, and he wants to be handcuffed and blindfolded. Those producers were like this. We can make that happen. You know what? We got our next challenge. Yeah. They literally did that last season, too, where they were on the, like, remember when

that was when Iris came in and Peppa? Yeah. Yeah. I think that what do you guys think about the Trinity and Bryce developments? I think they're really cute as friends. I, no. Or you think they I'm hurting for them.

I could jump on the Bryce and Trinity winning Love Island train. Yeah. I really appreciated him immediately looking at her and being like, I know the blonde. Immediately.

Like didn't let not one second pass without being like, I'm going to go ahead and let you know. He did play that super well. Did you? Okay. I don't know if this is going to resonate with any of you.

But Bryce was Tumblr famous. Have you guys seen that? I saw that. I don't really know what that means. Okay. So to be. Be Tumblr famous. If you were like a girl or a gay in about like in in middle school, high school, whatever in the late 2000s, early 2010s to be like an indie like American Apparel

boy at that time. That was like the hottest you could be was to have aesthetic photos on Tumblr circulating of you. There's one of him in like, is it Kendall? Jenner. Kindle. Yeah. Anyway. It was now I'm like now I like, right. Any else? He's really, he's really charmed. Who do you think they're going to couple Jen up with? I don't feel like,

Oh, then if no one's going home, then she'd probably end up as like Corbin or, oh no, she's choosing, right? When she choose first? No, it's America is putting. Who do you think Amera's going to put her with? Because America's putting the bombshells with couples. Remember when we put Iris and Jeremiah together

and had her crash out? I do remember that. I think, hey, America, can we be a little nicer this year? I mean, still create good TV. No, I think soul will go with sincere. obviously. I think we'll have Kenzie with Caleb, obviously. And then who, I feel like we haven't seen a lot of progression with Jen and anybody. I kind of feel like Zach or Gabe. I mean, Zach had the

whole thing about wanting to explore. Oh, right. And I feel like he's popular. I told all of them that I'm closed off. And she was like, you did? And then he's like, I slept horrible last night thinking about how did you. I told you we're closed off. Did you think he was in the wrong there, by the way? Because I actually liked the way he handled that. I felt it was very real and it was very honest the way that he was like, you know, like, listen, I've, I let them know, like, straight off the bat that I am very happy with you. And I think the term closed off kind of slipped out because I don't, he didn't say that to the women. He didn't say that to the bar shells. No. He said I'm, he said I'm like, I'm not interested in really, like, exploring anything to you guys.

Is what I said. I, I, Zach and. Hayda. I don't know if I like them together. I think Zach just knows he bag to batty. They don't feel like they. They want to keep her. No, but then he woke up the next day and was like, hey, I actually don't want to be closed off.

I'd like jumped. It feels too early. Yeah. The way when they always bring in a bombshell, it's hilarious because again, it just speaks to like how insulated they are and just like they only know what's run in fun of them. And it's like they keep forgetting that bombshells are coming. And then they keep getting reminded of like they're just going to keep bringing in hot people. That's honestly how it felt like Zach was responding to it. He was like, I said closed it off.

but then I realized that this is going to keep happening. And someone, I'm not saying that it will be, but someone might come in that I might want to explore. And I'm not saying that they will, but I'm saying they could. And I want to be able to do that. And Katie's like, huh? Great. Wonderful.

At the same time, have you guys seen the Zach and Bryce, the Zach and Bryce stuff? Mm-hmm. People shipping them together. Oh, guys, that's just, that's basically young, straight. men acting. No, but it's in the summer of like, we had heated rivalry and we have like,

you don't make these guys super gay and hoony. But growing up in high school and college, straight men do a lot of things that like, kind of, you know. But it's not that. It's just guys just. Guys being dudes. Guys being dudes.

Grabbing each other's butts, you know, like making weird jokes. Yeah, and I'm saying it's fine for straight guys to do that. I'm just saying like they could kiss for TV. Sure. Anyway, girls kiss for TV all the time. Can we talk about Casey and Anaya? Mm-hmm.

I'm a little worried for a girl. Yeah, I know. No. I'm not comparing Casey to West Wilson. Okay. All right, because we, so far. That would be. That would be nice.

But what, but what West is great at slash horrifying is that he has this very great ability in, in small moments, to make the women he's speaking with feel seen. Mm-hmm. It's not just saying things like, oh, you look really nice today. Oh, that's a sexy outfit. Just kind of these, like, you know, casual compliments that could come from the person you're dating or, like, a nice person on the streets. Mm-hmm.

You know, there's a difference when you say something that you're dating early on that really makes someone feel seen. Right. This person gets me. They're connecting with me in a way that, like, no one really has. And the conversation we saw the other night with Casey Nainaya was obviously a conversation that clearly made her feel seen. Yeah. Right. He related to like his sisters, his family members about like the women he's attracted to. He spoke and related to like compared like his experience with his sisters and made Anaya feel like this this man really gets me. And then in the very next day, you know, we hear like the fact that he's blurted out to his boys that soul was his type. And that she looks like his ex. You know, and that like. And didn't tell Anaya. And then when they're doing the game. and so like you have Casey doing saying this thing to Anaya this is a very made it made her feel seen so what does Anaya do in response to like Casey making her feel seen she shows up to that game incredibly attentional right so you have all the other women playing the game and like okay it's love island we're going to lean into the game and like you know Zach had a right to be upset and and sincere had the right to be upset but it's still a game and the women again kind of did the thing where they're like they're kind of playing dumb even though

know they're like, I could have like moved a little bit differently, but they're still making it with the other men. And it's just the game and it's Love Island. We want to see that. But Anaya was just like, hey guys, I know I'm blindfolded, but there's other ways to figure out who my man is without like sucking face. And she didn't do that. And she was like, I'm going to show the guy who just made me feel incredibly seen, then I

appreciate that. And he doesn't do that. In fact, when he gets asked about it, when, when, and when Ariana's like, so, like, What was that like? And then you have Casey jumping out being like, blessed. I feel very blessed that these other women wanted to make out with me. And then when they're talking about it, when he goes and he tries to talk to Anai about it, make her feel better. And she asks Casey if he wants to explore something with soul.

His answer was the most bullshit answer, which is basically, his answer was essentially in the most long-winded, confusing way. Well, if I like her better than you, then I will date her. was basically what he said because he was like well you know I mean sure I want to explore and if there's a connection then like yeah but if there's not a connection then like you have nothing to worry about it like

and I think she's really pretty question are they allowed to be like well obviously we're on Love Island so I do feel pressure to explore but that doesn't negate any of the connection between the two of us like are they allowed to say something like that of course I think they're like reference

the fact that like what we're playing love island but like Casey is doing the thing where it's just like it's like a lot of guys do this right they it's great to say something nice you know it's great to make make someone feel seen but like you do have to be careful with how seen you make someone feel before you're really able before you're willing to back that up right yeah and he clearly said this thing preemptively in a way where like if you're not ready to like lock in and explore i under like like what he said what he said was

was obviously great in general and I'm obvious how a lot of audience members like I'm sure also felt seen but for her like you have to when you're a guy and you're saying this to someone you have to ask yourself what is that going to mean to them and how am I going to back that up and it's not going to be like making out with other women and then being so flippant about who your past exes are knowing how that might be received the person you're dating and how that's going to make her feel And it just, I don't know, like, KC seems like this really sincere person and really thoughtful person, but like the very next day after that scene, he's just kind of moving like a dude. Well, you've got two new bombshells that come in right after he says all of that, which I was like, that, you know,

I mean, I believe that he meant what he was saying to her, but I think, yeah, the gravity of what he said just went out the window as soon as he realized that, oh, I still have options and, oh, this is early. Yeah, but, no, of course, it's not that he didn't mean you. It's just more like, it's like he gave himself the pat on the back for saying the nice thing without thinking about, well, if she believes that I mean it, what is she going to expect for me after that? And what is my responsibility going forward to show her that I do mean it, not just in a way of saying it, which is what so many guys do early on where they say the thing. You know, like, and it just, I remember being, like, going on the bashing, you get broken up with. Like, the thing when you're, like, broken up with when you're in it, like, I can't tell you the, conversations I had with myself or producers.

And it was like, but she said this to me. And why would she have said this and did that? Why would she say something that she knew was so like personal to me if she wasn't planning on, you know, moving forward with me? And that is, it must be something like a, like, why would you, why would you fuck with me like that if you're going to just, did you just say that? Well, and I think she did a really great job when she was just kind of like showing it, like showing him how it is where she was just like, hey, like,

how did I show up in that game, like to make sure that you felt comfortable? like what did you just do for me and he was like oh yeah I didn't do that did I and it's just like yeah like you can't say things that you that you don't understand the weight of and then be surprised by the consequences of it yeah and I think Anaya deserves like so much credit for the way she handled that conversation yeah because it was just it was just like man I wish I could communicate with people like that when I was in my feet because you could tell she was in her feelings about it and to be able to be like that empathetic and clear with the other person and like taking the time because she didn't like accuse him of doing something she was like

explaining to him why because he obviously didn't get like or wasn't like showing to her that he got what he did was wrong and she was like I'm going to explain to you why this felt the way it did for me give you examples back it up and then like and didn't you feel a certain way about that and he went and then he was like oh and I think it's just it's nice to see on love island people having like those kinds of like conflict resolution things, whether or not he actually takes that and like fully processes it and actually works on it is a different thing. Yeah, we'll see.

I don't know. I think an I rocked for having that combo. I did hate how going back to sincere and Melanie how the second that she started being like, you know, doubting the, he's like, no, no, no, I love our connection. I want to try this and be with you outside. Just be, just, they all do that. Just don't. Yeah.

Save it. Everybody wants to have a cake and eat it too. So it's like, and you're not gonna. Like, you're not gonna. It's a special time for you guys on this island. Just enjoy it while you're there.

Well, it's also like, if, you know, Melanie reads is like, you know, early on she's has these toxic traits and, you know, and she's been very vulnerable to like, something I've really, Melanie always feels like people get sick of me.

She's like in episode one. Such a vulnerable thing to say. And then you see her kind of move. And then you, and then we kind of get frustrated with her. and like we, you know, like, we criticize the, the, the act outs. But, like, and that, and that's that balance between, like,

acknowledging that that insecurity you have of people getting sick of you, but then at some point being like, what do I actually need to change versus just feeling sorry for myself? Because she does the, like, you know, the first time she got called about Bayo when she was leaning forward, you know, which almost seemed excessive of Bayo, like how she knows her body language. But when the, when the bombshell came in, she did the, like, she did. with her,

like with her physical movements. She almost like, Trinity like tap her on the shoulder. She like blocked out, you know? And it's like she, so she has this kind of like, when she gets excited, she loses that self-awareness

that frustrates other people. And it's both like one of those. And we do that all the time where it's just like, especially in 2026, we have all this language to like justify who we are. Well, I'm this. I can't help it. You know, like for me like I, you know,

Marissa, like I got ADHD. You know, I interrupt. I'm like, I relate to that. But it's just like I get less and less grace as I get older of like despite having this thing of like people giving a fuck whether it's my my attention deficit disorder or the fact that I'm just rude. Yeah. You know and you just kind of have to like figure that out and Melanie seems to be like on that path. But like with sincere he's doing the thing where he comes across as he can communicate, you know, and then you have Melanie being a little bit more like, you know, gets upset quicker. Heightened.

Yeah. heightened. But to Nally's point, it's like, but just acknowledge that maybe you like someone better and be upfront. Why are you allowing Melanie and, you know, and she's just being vulnerable. Yeah. Why, then why are you going back into the whole like, oh, no, we have something strong? You would, you looked like you were in love with soul. And, and that doesn't think wrong with that. You just, like, it really felt like they brought someone in that, like, maybe is just like on a more similar level than you. But why are you doing the thing in, like, in relationships where you, like, you have this toxic relationship, you break up, you get back together, you meet someone new,

but they pull you back in with like, but I've been fighting for you and things like that. And like, it's just all to say that like that person who comes across is the less toxic one in the relationship is still is toxic because they play in to the like the push and pull of the relationship. And he's, he's doing that. My, uh, my favorite line in the episode was sincere at the end going, I have a feeling that we're either going to be the greatest love story there ever was. and Melanie going, or you're going to break up with me.

Yeah. She was so real for that. It's like Melanie, I think where my empathy for a lot of my empathy for her comes from is just like, she runs a little hot. And as someone who like also runs a little hot, it's like I think she's trying and I think she probably knows she runs a little hot. And, you know, again, kind of like when we had Joanna on earlier where she was like, sometimes you just need a second. I think Melanie is definitely the kind of girl that just needs a second. I don't know if sincere is like, yeah, give me 10. If sincere is like the guy that's going to be able to kind of like match her on that a little bit if she needs it or let it go.

I also think it's just it's so early. So as much as I want to believe sincere is being sincere. I also think that it's like it's a power in numbers at this point because it's like nobody knows when the next fire pit's going to happen. and nobody knows when they're going home. Wouldn't it be better to have two options than no options? Or be stuck with one option and that option have other options. And that's kind of where sincere's insecurity has kind of been showing through is at any time. Melanie is excited about anybody else walking in that door.

He's all of a sudden like, well, why would she act like that? Why would she da-da-da-da? And it's just like even if she was excited for Kenzie, if she was excited for herself, whatever it may be. It's like you let yourself have all of these emotions. So then it's like, but it's okay when you do it. It's okay that you can bring a bombshell and take her to every quiet. hidden place in the house and make out, but she jumps up and down in front of your face

because a bombshell walks in for someone else, and it's like, oh, well, I really have to think about what we're doing here. So I'm just like, I do kind of feel like there's a bit of, you know, raw emotion, but I also think that there's a bit of like, okay, well, if Melanie isn't into me, I should have somebody else.

Or like I actually really like Soul, but if Soul decides to go with somebody else or America appears in with someone else, they see that we have a connection too. I think Soul is, I mean, I mean, she came in as a bombshell, but I think she's a girl's girl in the sense. And her asking, sincere, if you're going to tell Melanie is like kind of a check-in of, like, how are you going to move? Yeah.

I will be curious how things play out. Like, let's assume that America matches soul and sincere. And sincere. I feel like it's going to come out that the back and forth, I feel like soul's going to put a stop to it. And I want to see a conversation between Melanie and soul at some point. and in a way that because Sol doesn't, she seems like very confident,

sure of herself, so I don't feel like when she's talking to Melanie it's going to come from a place of rivalry or like competition. And I wonder if Sincere's going to kind of get caught with a little bit of the game playing he's doing right now. A little bit of the lies and I kind of hope if I were producing it,

I would send in a bombshell specifically for Melanie and see how that whole dynamic plays out. No, Melanie does seem to act like every bombshell is for her. And here, one last thing I'll say on my girl, Melanie. It's early days. It's early days. And like, maybe I'm wrong and I'll turn on her. But as of right now, like, she is starting to feel like my girl.

Like, and, you know, God forbid a woman is expressive. And I feel like that's what Melanie is just getting like kind of in trouble for with sincere because he's a very like calm presenting guy. And I think so many times in those relationship dynamics with like a very peaceful presenting man and like a woman who is more expressive. like the woman gets I don't know I think she gets No it's fresh it's the West Wilson of like Everything's fun everything's chill Everything's cool

No God forbid I have like a physical reaction To something and move my body Like okay sorry Sorry my voice changed in inflection Because I had a feeling Like I don't know So which couples who do we Who are we rooting for to stay together

Bryce and Trinity Brice and Trinity for sure If Casey can clean his act up It's like potentially him and Anaya. Yeah, I was going to say, I like Naya and Casey, but like... I mean, because regardless of what happens, they seem like a really nice fit. Yeah, I just want Casey to be behind everything that he said.

And if you're really going to choose Anaya and seeing, like, what she faces being in this villa, then I'm just like... Don't be performative. Exactly. Exactly. Don't say the shit that you know is going to win us over, but, like, you're going to go move... Treat her that way. To somebody completely opposite. If you see her that way, treat her that way.

Yeah. I'm definitely done with Baya and Gabe. Like, I won't be. Baya to be. Yeah. She's too earnest and she's too, like, grounded in a way that, like, Gabriel, he's just too unsurious about whatever. Yeah, they're like a

fling. They're a villa fling, but let's not pretend that, you know. If Baya doesn't find her match, she could put her on age of attraction. That's true. For saying that she was the guy 20 years older than her. Pop off. Period.

Okay, one last thing about Kenzie I was thinking about. So, she's never she was talking about she's never had a roster before. And I think there are modern dating. You really, really get into the idea that, like, you have to have a roster. Obviously, on Love Island, it's encouraging you to, like, have a bit of a roster. But she's going in with no experience and it's stressful.

And I relate to that as someone who, like, rarely ever has a roster. I get stressed out when I get one. So, like, what's everyone's tips for successfully navigating a roster? I can honestly say I've never had a roster. But I just don't have that much in span to, like, give to that many. people at one time. I mean like you know it's one of those things I don't know I'm curious the ladies out there like do you really want one no why is it because you know it's 2026 and if the guys can do it we can do it too because the only reason guys do it is for bragging rights with their guy friends it's very like locker room talk

because it's also when the guy that you want won't commit to you then you just like okay well I'll just keep on seeing what's out there then well there's a difference seeing what's out there and like There are guys who literally, like, brag about their roster. And when they, by roster, it's like you have a team of people you're dating. It's people you can kind of go back. West Wilson. West Wilson has a roster. It is not just like.

It's polyamory, but like really you're the coach and the players don't interact. Yeah. Yeah. You have all the say and all the power and they don't really know. But like, yes, you get to like on a Wednesday, if you're feeling a certain vibe, you put like, if you need a shooter. Yeah. You know, you put in the point, you know, the shooting guard.

If you need to play some defense, you know, you bring in the defensive specialists. Different people, different sets of skills. Or you just throw out five different balls and see which one comes back. Yeah, that is also. Which one responds first. Literally. That's fast pitching. If you're, you know, so if you have a group of girls where, like, they think you're

really cool for, like, juggling a lot of men, I guess, pop off. But, like, that's honestly the only reason guys have it is to, like, feel cool with their, like, boys. Or to be able to get as many opportunities to feel like they have a girlfriend. but no commitment with every different type of flavor under the sun. This makes me feel better. But they're a guy, you could just be, you could just be single in dating.

And you could be not the person who says a bunch of things to all the people you're dating, which validates them and makes them feel like, I'm the only one they're dating. They wouldn't say this to like people they don't care about, but he's saying it to me. And he's just like, yeah, but no.

You know, and there's a difference between the guy who's just like out there just dating. Yeah. You know, and just like not saying things that make, you know, Like, Natalie always jokes. Like, when we first started dating, you didn't talk to me or you were very quiet.

But I was always this, I never wanted to say something that she would receive in a way that, like, I couldn't back up with my actions. And you can call that whatever. But, like, that's at least someone who, like, doesn't need to say something just so I can make sure I got that lockdown so that I can, like, move differently with other people. But you would, like, absolutely throw down in the bedroom. So which is worse? Nope. Yep. I didn't need to tell you.

I mean, I'm not a saint. I'm just I'm not perfect You were like You didn't use it That is the thing It's like sometimes you're not using your words I just thought we were participating in hookup culture

But it's like Love a situation ship Love it back then There is something funny about being like So like it's not a good thing or a bad thing It's just like being so intentional with your words of like What you're saying to a person and not saying to a person In order to keep up like some boundary

And then like But then physically being The body language ain't gonna like lie. Right. I'm like, we don't speak at all, but like, he's obsessed with me. Like, okay, are you kidding? But then he like, intimate. It's intimate.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's imperfect. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not going to- We're all on a journey. Yeah, I'm not going to yuck anyone's yum about, like, if you want to have a roster, especially if you're young and dating and don't want to take anything seriously, by all means, have as much fun as a lot of work as you want. Yeah, like, better you than me. Yeah, but if you're a roster, like, again, coaches,

there's assistant coaches. You have to go through first. Then, like, you become a coach. You just got to be good at keeping your game, I guess, is what I'm hearing. It's a lot to navigate. Well, we will certainly have a lot to unpack next week. Don't forget to check out the Going Deeper episode with Kelly Potter. That is out now.

It was a great conversation. All your Real Housewives of Atlanta fans. It's a fantastic episode. We really appreciated Kelly joining us. It was so great to get to know her on a more personal level. So be sure to check that out if you haven't. Thank you to our guest, Joanna, and a swisher for joining us and thank you guys all for listening.

Don't forget to check out my substack. The new essay I dropped today about how to get unstuck. I was just kind of reminded of all the times I felt very stuck and trapped in a relationship. I couldn't emotionally and mentally get out of watching the Summer House reunion. So if that's something that you're out there and you're relating to, check it out. Hopefully you find it interesting and helpful. Just go to VialFiles.com or my Instagram or whatever to check it out. I hope that you do.

Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you back on Monday. Thank you.