The Viall Files - E1157 - Natalie's Birth Story, Love Island Season 8 Awards w/ Dave Holmes, Plus Ava Dash

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Natalie returns to share her emotional twin birth story, from changing her birth plan to welcoming the babies, postpartum recovery, feeding twins, and adjusting as a family of five. Then Dave Holmes joins us for a Love Island Season 8 award ceremony, breaking down Brinity, Melanie and Aniya's arcs, Kenzie's splits, Sincere, Zach, Bryce's grandma, and who was gone too soon. You won't want to miss it :) "I love you so much…" Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE? Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Whatnot: Download Whatnot today and get $20 Off and free shipping on your first purchase. Tonal: Tonal is offering our listeners $200 off your Tonal purchase at https://tonal.com with promo code VIALL.  Upwork: Visit https://upwork.com right now and post your job for free. FIGS Scrubs: Use code FIGSRX for 15% off your first order at https://wearfigs.com  Wayfair: Ready to upgrade your home for way less? Head to https://wayfair.com right now to shop all things home and get your space ready for less. Nature's Sunshine: Go to https://naturessunshine.com today and use the code VIALL for 20% off your first order, plus free shipping. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Natalie's Birth Story 01:03:14 - Dave Joins 01:25:08 - Love Island Awards 01:59:49 - Ava Joins 02:19:07 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @ava_dash @daveholmes @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

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Use promo code V-I-A-L for $200 off your purchase. That's tonal.com. Promocode V-I-A-L for $200 off. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another special episode of the VAL Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, and I'm joined by... Oh, God. I love you.

I don't know why I got emotional Oh my God, I'm going to cry We're both very emotional these days, guys So it's going to be a very, yeah, no sleep Nowley's back My boobs are already tweaking All right All right

Now he decided to pop in To say hello And talk a little bit about our Her birth story, really And then we have a very special episode Dave Holmes legendary VJ of MTV friend of show a big bachelor fan back in the day

just started watching Love Island Season 8. So Dave is coming to join us and give us we're going to do the Valfau's Love Island Season 8 award ceremony a little Best of really

of Love Island season 8. It's going to be a wild and wacky fun episode but before we have some fun with Love Island it's time to get a little sentimental and a little emotional I'll stop talking.

Take it out. How are we starting this? I don't know. It's tough. I know. I love you guys. Yeah. Where do we start?

I don't miss you. No. Miss you guys. Literally look stunning. You look absolutely. How are you feeling? Yeah. Very emotional.

The first like, I think week, today is two weeks postpartum. So the first week was very rough. I had a lot of just health issues. I felt like I'd been hit by a truck

multiple times in a row. Now I feel. I feel like is where my hormones are going nuts. And I'm just, we'll cry at any moment. So we're ready. Hold on. I've got a stack of cocktail napkins in case I start to cry. No, but it was honestly like, I posted on Instagram and just said, like, obviously I was going to get into it more here, but it was like everything truly worked out the way it was meant to work out. And I say that because remember how just like much anxiety I had about like them flipping and I just. Like, I had this idea of what my delivery was supposed to be, and I had a very beautiful delivery with River.

That one was natural. And by natural, I don't mean unmedicated. Yeah. Also, by the way. Just vaginal. Just vaginal. Did not have a C-section. Was very much medicated.

Enjoyed every second of it. And I really wanted that for the twins. Yeah. I wanted the medication. I really wanted that for the twins. And so I knew my doctor, not specialized, but I know she does a ton of twin deliveries. And so I went, obviously, like when I went to her and she found out it was twins, I was like, I really want to do this the same way I did rivers. I'm like so scared to have a C-section.

That's just like not, I mean, I'm obviously going to do what's healthiest for the babies. Of course. But if I have a choice and she was like, I can deliver, as long as baby A is head down, I can deliver them bad. So baby B can be head up, head down, sideways, whatever it is. Like, we'll figure it out. But as long as baby A's head down. So the entire last, I don't know, two months of the pregnancy where, like, they start getting in position.

I had so much anxiety because baby A was head up. So I was going to this like baby flipper, this chiropractor massage therapist, like woo-woo. Wait, there's a baby, they make baby flippers. Yeah. It's a chiropractor that specializes in. Flipping babies. It was recommended by our doctor. So it's, yeah.

But it's legit. Like his baby flipper on the business card is my question. He definitely special. I don't know if it says baby flipper. Okay, fair. But he definitely specializes in this. He does have a song that goes, turn, baby, turn, turn. That's pretty awesome.

That he plays. I can't trust that. Yeah. And he's like, it's, I haven't met him, but I heard a lot of great stories from Natalie. And it's like, he's very L.A. And he's a, he's a car. an Emiston movie. Chiropractor of the stars.

Oh, so he's trustworthy. He's trustworthy. Recommended by a doctor, but it's also like one of those things where it's like, I think more and more doctors, I'm curious how your sister is, but like there's, you know, our doctor, she's obviously very like by the book, but is open to like your kind of, I don't know, what do you call it, untraditional or like maybe more homeopathic remedies. So she recommended it in even the chiropractor. was like, you know, we can try.

There's like no guarantees. Yeah. But there's like, especially with twins. There's things we can do and we'll see what happens. Yeah. You know, but it's not like, we'll definitely flip this baby. Yeah. How did what is, what was that kind of experience like for you?

So I went three times. The first time I went, it's very much like, first it's a massage and he's kind of like opening up your glutes and your lower back and kind of just like getting your body loose enough so that the baby feels like there's room to move down to the pelvis. Got it. And then it's like the chiropractic side where he's, you know, more loosening up. Yeah. He put me in like a transverse so I'm like kind of upside down and he's doing all these

maneuvers on my stomach. How crazy. Very crazy. And so the first time I was like, I left. I'm like, I feel not the whole way home. I'm like, I'm nauseous. My head hurts. Like I don't know.

I'm going to do that again. Go to my doctor, get an ultrasound. B. Head down. So I'm like, oh my God. Well, it worked. wrong baby, but he did worse. Someone had. Someone flipped.

Yeah. So I go to him the next week. And I'm like, Dr. Berlin, we got a baby flipped. He's like, oh my God, yay. I'm like, but the wrong baby. So we need to do something else. So we do the same thing. Go back to my doctor. Baby B's head up. So then I'm like crashing out. I'm like, oh my God. Now this is like not good. Now I have both babies head up. Like what the hell? Nick's like maybe it just made room. Now A is going to go on down. I'm the everything's great.

Everything, you know, we'll see. It's all good. It's all good, you know. So I go back to him the third time and I don't have a doctor's appointment for like two weeks after that. So when I finally go to the doctor's appointment, I'm seeing a different doctor than mine because she had like a delivery or something. So I'm seeing one of the other doctors in her practice. And at this point. I want to say before that, we're in the waiting room for a bit because we went to go see.

our doctor and she had a delivery so it was like oh we got to wait and we were sitting next to these two lovely women both i think we're pregnant no one was three weeks postpartum her C-section okay one was pregnant and so they're talking and obviously you know nally's there very very pregnant and it came up that she uh is pregnant with twins one of the women was a twin oh so that was fun and then you know it's always like that's great how many twins we've met either parents of twins or people who were twins. And then the other women was like, I've had a C-section. I've only had C-sections. And she's like, she was pitching C-sections. But in the best possible way, because at this point, we're very much like, you know, hey, whatever happens is okay. You know, like, you know, Nali kind of had to start

mentally preparing for the possibility. It wasn't going to go the way she hoped and just be like, okay with that. So it felt very fortuitous that were sent next to these two women. And honestly, like, after talking to the woman who's only had C-section, I was like, this sounds dope. I was a C-section. You know, like, she was really this, like, it's awesome. She's like, I haven't done vaginal, so I can't speak to that. But, like, I loved having a C-section.

And she gave us all the reasons why she thought it was great. She gave Natalie tips about, like, recovery. So it kind of felt like, you know what? If this happens, we'll be totally okay. I don't know about Natalie. It made me feel a lot better. It seemed to help Natalie just about the possibility. that, you know, if it goes this way, it's going to be fine.

Because, like, having not done something, you're always worried about the things that can go wrong. And, you know, it's always easy to find the scary stories. And then as soon as we went into the doctor's office. Well, I had one more appointment with Dr. Berlin, and I canceled it. And I was like, I'm just at a point now where, like, I feel like I'm messing with the universe. You know, like, if they are meant to flip, they're meant to flip.

If I meant to have a C-section, I meant to have a C-section. Like, I started getting to a place where I was like, you know, what if I go back to this appointment? I get A to flip. The umbellical cords wrapped around her. You know, like, I caused some sort of issue by this, like, I have to have this vaginal. So then I started having all this anxiety. And I was like, I'm just not going to, I'm just going to let it's in God's hands. Yeah.

Like whatever happens. Let go and like God. Exactly. So I go to this appointment. I hear this woman talk about her C-section. And I'm like, okay, okay. So then we go in. We see this new doctor.

And he's like, oh, baby A's head down. And I'm like, no way. You've got to fucking getting me. He's like, baby B is sideways, but like, fine. That's okay. Baby A's head down. Let's go. Wow.

Baby B sing sideways does create a little complication because you can't deliver baby sideways. So I leave. I text my doctor and I'm like, this is what's going on. A's head down, B sideways. She calls me immediately. And she's like, okay, so we can do this. The hope is that baby B once A is delivered, baby B will then flip either head up or head down because they have more room, whatever, whatever. That's the hope, right?

But I have to let you know, like if she doesn't, we will have to do an emergency C-section, which, like, just to let you know, is chaotic. Yeah. You know, because we're just not ready for it. so it's not as like a seamless transition. So she was very like preparing me for all of that. And I said, obviously I've known this doctor for a few years. We've become very close. I'm like professionally and personally, would you just do a C-section?

Like I just need to know. And she was like, honestly, this being, if this were your first, I would say yes. But you've had a great vaginal delivery. Like, let's just, I think you can do it. So I'm like, so good. How did you feel like having her? tell the like you know she's like the most reassuring like she is the best bedside manner

this woman like i dr lebrant would die for her she's just she truly is the best doctor i'm so lucky that i have her but yeah so she just was like okay this is what i think we do we try it we do it i think you're you've got the body to do it you i think we can so we're like okay so then we go we have to go in at 4 a.m. on Tuesday morning and we have River sleeping with us that night. We get up at like three. We get my mom to come in the bed with us, like in place of us as we're leaving. And that is just emotional in itself. Like me saying goodbye to river. We get in the car. We drive to the hospital. We get in our room. We get like check. checked out and everything, I am three centimeters dilated already. Wow.

So with River, I had to have this like fully balloon and they had to like dilate me myself. And that took hours and hours. This I was already three centimeters. So they were like, oh, great. Okay. We're starting somewhere. So they start the potosin drip. And I very much like to be induced.

I like to know what I like to be in control. I like to know what day. Everything's happening on. I think they started me on like a little bit of a low dose of potosin drip. And so it kind of took a long time for me to get going. And then every doctor that came in was like, listen, once your water breaks, then it's like game time. You know? So we just really got to wait for your water to break or for a doctor to come in and break your water.

So you're saying other doctors, is your doctor, like, scheduled to come in at a certain time or something? So she's like, she's like at this point, she's at the office, like doing appointments. And she's got, every doctor has like their team at the hospital. Okay. midwives on her team. Okay, cool. So her midwives can come in and, like, check my cervix. They can do all, you know, they could break my water if she told them they could.

She, like, popped in a couple times. Yeah, she came in. I don't know how it works. I don't know. Well, a lot of them doctors will be like, yeah, they're basically, like, from what I know from my sister, like, she'll be on call. Like, right? So it's basically like, if the baby's coming, like, she's going to, she's locking in.

But, like, she's also going to be, like, hanging out doing whatever in the meantime. At this point, though, Nallie was like fully mentally prepared for the possibility of a C-section. So when you go in at 4 in the morning and, you know, because the C-section, it's just like, if you go in for a scheduled C-section, you go in the hospital, you kind of get ready for surgery because it's surgery. And like the babies, you know, that's what the woman we were saying in the office. She's like, there's no like marathon delivery. You just go in a couple hours later, babies are out. You're ready to go. So you're like, so when we're going at 4 in the morning, It's kind of like, Nally was like, should we just do like a C-section?

Like, you know, because the alternative is a 12 to 24-hour marathon of contractions and sitting in a bed and the epidural. So there, you know, which I took as like a good sign that now, at this point now, I was fully prepared for anything because even though we were planning or hoping to have a vaginal birth, again, like you just never know, you know what's going to happen. And I think that was like the most being able to like switch my birth plan up, you know, being able to be like, okay, I'm okay with whatever happens. I think was like coming to that realization was a huge sense of relief. But my doctor orders an ultrasound to like make sure that baby B is still either sideways or A is still head down, like just to make sure we're still going in the right direction. Ultrasound comes in. They're like, yep, baby B is still sideways. A is. head down. Okay. Then my doctor comes in a few hours later and she's like, hey, did they tell you if B was like looking up or looking down? I was like, no, I don't believe I got that information. She's like, okay, I'm going to bring in another ultrasound and we're going to see because if the baby's looking up, like looking up towards your chin, it's a lot harder for them to flip. Oh. So now I'm like, well, if that's the case, like just put me into the OR right now. Like I'm not, you know, like, you don't want to go through. through 18 hours of delivery. All of that just to get in.

And then have a C-E section. Yeah. That seems like that's definitely something that we were like prepared for. Yeah. You had to like, we had to like discuss and decide. They bring in the ultrasound tech. And they're like, oh, baby bees head up.

Reach. That's perfect. Like that's all we need. Not sideways anymore. Baby B's head up. Yeah. So like the whole time. So not it wasn't, it didn't matter about that if she was looking up or

down. She had already flipped to where she needed to be, which was either head down or breech, just not sideways. So the hope was that when baby A came out, even if baby B was head up, that she would then flip regardless. So they flipped that fast? No, she had already flipped. Oh. So, like, she was sideways. And so Dr. LeBrand was like, is she, which way is her head looking as she sideways? That will really determine if we can do a vaginal or not. And then she did the ultrasound and she had already flipped head up, head up, like where she needed to. Which for me to have the delivery. It didn't matter whether she's looking head down or head. Oh, okay. So there's, you know, think of it like there's rotating this way or rotating this way.

Babies are running around in there. No, they were like flippity floppitting. Yeah, but doctors be like, meanwhile, like, Natalie is like pregnant with twins and this is very uncomfortable. You know, that still blows my mind because like the twins are what two weeks old. So like Natalie's not even 40 weeks. Even as to as of today, would you be 40 weeks right now? I think you'd be 39 weeks. Yeah, my due date was July 21st. So like they could still be inside her. Yeah. They're, that's insane.

I know they're small, but like these are two little humans that I'm like, how could they possibly fit inside there? Meanwhile, the doctors are like, they have a ton of room in there. You know, they're just flipping and flopping. And I'm like, in what world? Wow. A lot of thought is truly incredible. It's a lot different. Yeah.

So all of that for at the very last second B to be A and B to be in the exact positions, we needed them to be the entire time. I feel like I labored for, they up your potocin by two every 30 minutes. Okay. So the stronger the potocin is like the stronger your contractions. So I'm like, I don't feel anything. We're at like 12. At 24 I think is the highest you can go. They started me at two. So we're at like 12, 14. I'm like I don't feel anything. Like no contractions? I was having contractions but I wasn't feeling them. Oh wow. Yeah, it was very strange. And, And I'm like, can you, can we skip a couple numbers? Like, can we really get this going?

You know, I'm really just ready. I'm ready to have the babies. I also hadn't eaten anything since the day before. Yeah, because if you have to have surgery, you can't eat. Yep. So it's now like 6 p.m. the next day. She's hangary. It's been 24 hours since I've eaten.

Nick's like, I'm going to get some breakfast. I hope you ate it out of the room. Outside of the room. Oh, no, yeah. He went to the restaurant. He sat outside. I was prepared not to eat. But Natalie encouraged me to go eat.

Yeah. That is pretty, I did. Like when you're, if you're not going to like potentially have a C-section, are you allowed to eat before you? No. Because you could have to have an emergency C-section. I mean, my, someone on my team, I was like, I just would love like an iced vanilla latte. Could I please have an iced vanilla latte? And she was like, well, if you would have said, um, coffee with no cream and no

syrup and no and I was like no no I can't have that she was like my recommendation would probably be no but you can do what you want if you throw it up later don't be mad at me and I was like great Nick get me the ice-inolatine how was it delicious yeah yeah it was delicious I did not no I didn't I threw up the no I threw up the peach tea no you threw up at some point I did um we've all been there yeah we've all been there so So then they're like, okay, now we just need your contractions are going at a perfect speed, whatever. Like now we just need to have your water broken. Let's like check baby.

So the midwife checks me and she's like, so baby A's head isn't perfectly on your cervix. It's like a little off. Okay. So Dr. LeBrand should be the one to break your water. I'm like, okay, great. So they're like, she'll be here. She'll be here. So it was like, oh, she'll come on her lunch break.

Because it's not an emergency. She couldn't come on her lunch break. Something that would otherwise happen naturally. So it's not like they're not going to call her to leave the office. Yeah. She's not like you're in Dane. Yeah. You're okay.

Yeah, you're safe. They're still cooking. Yeah. Basically. So, but they, everyone keeps telling me like, okay, she's going to be here now. Okay, she'll actually be here in an hour. Okay, she'll be here in two hours. So what was going to be noon turned out.

to be 7.30 p.m. So that was a long seven and a half hours that I was. What did you do in those seven? You were watching Love Island. Period. Yes, we were. Yeah. What episode of Love Island was this?

Oh, it was movie night. Oh, yeah. Oh, movie night. Wow, it was a great one. You had like something to distract you. It was great. And then my doctor comes. She breaks my water.

They're like, okay, we'll come back and check you in six hours unless you feel rectal pressure. And I'm like, okay. So let's finish out this Love Island, I guess. And like three hours later, I'm like, I feel like I'm like holding in a fart. Like I feel like I'm like really like clinching my body. And then I'm like, this is the same feeling I had with River. I think this is the pressure that they're talking about.

Oh my gosh. Like the nurse called that. And I'm like, I think I'm feeling some pressure, not quite sure. They're like, okay, we'll check you. Oh, yep, you're at 10 centimeters. You're ready to go, babe. So then we're, you know, now it's like. Nick's got to get gowned up.

Every twin delivery happens in an operating room just in case anything. And that's like a while. I remember with River too because it's like go time. Yeah. Wow. With River. It's intense. You're at 10 centimeters.

Yeah. So they get Nick suited up in his OR attire. They put like my cap on. They're getting ready to transfer me waiting on my doctor to come. They end up having three doctors in the operating room. So the doctor who is the one who checked me and said Baby B is sideways that one day at the office. He was there. He was there because he's like happy to be there.

He was there. So he was like, oh, well. He was a doctor on call. More than the mayor. And then we had a resident and then my doctor. So it's packed full. With twins, you have to have the whole like baby NICU team there just to make sure. There were so many people there.

Does that scare you? I mean, obviously it's. better to have more people, but seeing all these people come in, does it, like, make you realize, oh, this is, like, very serious and kind of scared. Like, I'm sitting here listening to this. I'm like, I think I would be scared seeing a team of people and be like, I don't know how it was for you. I just honestly, not for me. Yeah. Not that, but it was more like they, I just, at that point, we had so many conversations with our doctor that it felt like they were just really prepared. Okay. So, and at that point, you know, I'm just like. Like this is what's meant to happen.

And I'm just like, and I'm there letting Natalie know, like, this is, everything's okay. And like, we just, they just feel very prepared. And it's just like, no matter what happens, because you can go in there. And again, like, it might, it still might be a C-section. So we're really just at this point mentally, we're just ready to get the babies out healthy and good. But before, so before they had my water broken, I hadn't had the epidural yet. That was like a whole conversation of like, when should we get the epidural? I want to still obviously be, like, the epidural kind of.

slows things down because you can't get up and walk, you can't move around. So I really waited until the last second to get the epidural. And which once again, we said this with the river, not as scary as everyone makes it out to be. I got the, I'm still bruised from it. I got the IV put in my wrist by a nurse. Okay. She blew my vein twice. And I was sobbing crying.

Yeah. Epidural, I was like, all right, he's done. Cool. It was the same doctor's last time and I recognized him. And he kind of came in and you can tell he's like looking at her chart. He's like, how was your, no, because he obviously knew. He's like, how was your last experience with an epidural? I'm like, I'm pretty sure you did it.

He's like, I did. But he wanted to ask. And I'm like, we actually gave you a glowing review. Yeah. So don't fuck this up. Like, it was great. And he informed us that at Cedars, they have anesthesiologists who are just for epidurals. Amazing.

Like they, that's all they do. All day long is epidural, epidural, epidural. So, like, they specialize in it. They know what they're doing, which made me feel obviously so much better about it. But yeah, so got the epidural, not scary at all, does not hurt. I have very low pain tolerance. Did not hurt. That was our experience.

Yeah. Not medical advice. Of course. For sure. So when they wheel me into the OR, I have to switch from my hospital bed to the operating table. And as someone who was a surgical technologist, have been in many operating rooms, have never been on an operating room table. Awoke.

So I'm like, huh? Awake. At all. No, I know, but like, isn't it weird that you're awake? Most of them are awake and make them in because they have to switch from the hospital bed to them. I think operating table, I think I'm out. Yeah, they roll you in. Yeah, they roll me in.

Yeah. Let me know how it was. Yeah. But I was like, this is so crazy to be on this side of everything and just looking. I'm like looking at the surgical text setup and I'm like, okay. Like, I better hear a count throughout this whole thing. You're like, I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing back there, girl.

I see you. I see you. So they had Dr. Niku, who was the one who checked me in the office, he was running the ultrasound. They had the resident be the one to pull out baby A. Wow. Because that was just going to be plain, simple. Yeah. And then Dr. LeBrant was going to get Baby B.

So they, baby A, I feel like comes out pretty normal, right? Like that was just a few pushes. I'm still always blown away because, like, I don't know. I guess when you think about labor, you always hear about, like, I was in labor for 18 hours. Yeah. But, like, the actual, like, once the 10 centimeters hits, it's shocking how, at least again, Natalie's experience, I was like, it goes pretty fast. So this whole time we had thought we based the girls' names off of their ultrasounds. So baby A, our entire pregnancy was Dove and Baby B was Iris because Iris's nose looked to be the most like River's nose.

And we feel like River is very much a Nick Bowie. Yeah. So we're like, okay, we'll give Iris Parker, which is next side of the family, middle name. That will be Baby B. We felt like Dove, oh, that's a new nose. Haven't seen that nose before. Maybe that's Natalie knows. So that one will be Dove Tomlin for my family. So that's kind of how we did it. And then while I'm pushing or in the operating room, my doctor's like, remember, they switched a few weeks ago. They switched sides. Which I was confused about because I thought, I remember when you first found out you're pregnant and you learn about the whole baby A, baby B thing because before you're just like there's this one baby.

Yeah. I remember them being like baby A will always be baby A. Well, it's like whoever is baby A is closest to your cervix, and like that's always going to be the one that's going to come out first. Okay. Because I remember being like, and I remember them telling you that. And I'm like, wait, you, huh? Like, I thought that couldn't happen, but apparently I guess it does. They switched.

So they switch a runy. They switch a runny. They parent trap. They parent trap. Yes. So then I'm like, okay. So A, that's actually going to come out is now going to be Iris. And B, who's flipped up is going to be dove.

Okay, cool. Sure. we got this so i push for i don't know 10 minutes maybe less than that she comes out they're like oh short umbilical cord so they can't like put her on my chest right away she's like kind of on like my stomach and um so i can't even really reach her because my umbellic cord is so short so then they nick cuts it they take her over to the warmer make sure she's okay because now it's like go time for duff so They got that ultrasound on there.

My doctor's like, okay, I'm just going to reach up and grab her by her legs. I'm over by Iris at this point. I think I got some time. Yeah. Wow. Because I'm like, they're like, it could be, it could be a few minutes. It could be an hour. So then I'm like, hey, Nick, want to come back over here?

What time is this, by the way? Iris is born at 11.24 p.m. Oh, so they could have, because I remember you saying there was like a chance that they would have different. Well, yeah. Well, before she was 10 centimeters, it's like 11 o'clock. and I'm like well shit we were fully prepared for them to be like June babies

my brother's birthday is July 1st so it was like oh you know let's let's get them in before that you know totally fine like Uncle Sam like we like them like it's cool like it's my brother shares a birthday with one of my mom's brothers no big deal and then when she's 10 centimeters

it's like I don't know like 11 10 11 15 I don't know what exact time and I'm like oh shit like, what if they have two different birthdays? And so we had like a fun conversation about whether we, that would be fun or not. And I'm like, now I'm mentally in my head being like, that would be awesome. Like, you know, how cool. Not only like two different days, but two different months.

A really cool way for like twins who are going to have to share so much about life to like have their own individual day. But alas. So she's elbow deep and she is grabbing Dove's feet. And when I tell you, I'm laying there and I am experiencing the most. intense amount of tugging and rocking and pulling. I'm not in any pain. Yeah. I'm just like, bizarre.

Yeah, I hear people being like, should we get a vacuum? I'm like, vacuum. Oh boy. And then it's like, do you want me to manually turn her like push on my stomach to me? I'm like, and my doctor being so calm is like, no, it's fine. I just am looking, I'm like staring into my doctor's eyes. Well, because then when Iris baby A is born, like you go from push, push, push, push to like they just bring up a baby, you know, so, and I'm not, like, I don't know if Dr. LeBrand, probably because it was the

OR, like, when River was born, she's like, you want to help? I'm like, no, I'm, I'm good here. She didn't offer it this time. She was locked in. She was locked in. But you go from like push, push, push to like, they just bring up a baby. It's like, it goes so fast, you know, but then with, with Dove, breach, I look up and I see her like pulling on her legs. Yeah. It's kind of freaky and scary. And like there's, she was calm, but there's an intensity about her, because she really, you know, it's not just like this gentle thing. She is pulling her out. It's, it was crazy. My sister would refer to it as a yank and I'm out of there. Yeah. Yep. A breach extraction, as some might say. And so, yeah, I'm like, experience all this tugging. I'm like, oh my God, I hear all these words. I'm like, I just, please, Dr. LeBrant like, tell me. And she's like, no, it's okay. I got this. And I learn after. And I learn after. words are I can actually see on the ultrasound because he's still ultrasounding while she's trying to get her. They do that for non-twin's ultrasound throughout? No. Okay. So this was new. And so he's still ultrasonic. I'm looking and I can literally see she grabs Dove's foot and

Dove pulls her foot out of her hand and then kicks me. And this happens like several times. Like Dr. Sprint is like, like give me your foot. Stop it. Yeah. That's kind of iconic. That's cute. Kind of iconic. And so then she's pulling her out. And as she's like, about to come out, she sticks her arm up. And Dr. Brain is like, nope, you can't come out like that. So then she reaches up to like pull her arm down and she wiggles out and sticks her arm up again. So she's just like fighting her in my womb. She's like, I'm comfy in here. I finally have time alone. Literally. I've literally been waiting for this moment. Like I thought I would have longer and you're ripping me out of here. And so then finally she gets her to wear her arms are down.

She gets her out safely. She lays her on top of me. She is blue. She is not moving. My doctor's like, this is normal for breach babies. Immediately. This is normal for breach babies. So we're just kind of like looking at her and they're, you know, warming her up,

warming her up, doing what they do. She cries. Everything's okay. They take her over to the warmer. Nick follows. I'm like, Nick, go with the babies. So I'm laying there and I'm like, how bad did I tear? She goes, I don't know yet.

Let's just, let's just clean it up. I'm like, okay. Oh, gosh. So then they're, you know, getting out the placentas and they're doing all the rest of the work they got to do. And then she goes, you didn't tear at all. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? Not one tear. I'm like, okay.

Okay. Okay, body. Okay, literally, body, team. I said, after all that yanking, not one tear. Arms deep. Literally elbow deep. And not one tear is crazy. You literally had a baby fighting to stay inside of you.

And you stayed strong. And literally, I stayed strong. You were built for this, honey. It was built for this. Yeah. So, I mean, they have, what happened after that? It's a lot of me being neurotic after that. Because unlike our doctor who has the Incredible Bedside manner,

Everyone else is just like very focused on all the things they're doing and I'm just like, is this okay? Is this okay? Because they're all very serious looks on their faces and it's hard not to take very serious looks on their faces as potentially something wrong. That would be me. I'd be so scared. Yeah. So I was just really annoying to everyone. So is that wrinkle that's on her forehead. Do we feel like that's going to go away? And she's like, well, she's still unfolding. She like, Dove had one eye open. Yeah. And one eye closed. And I thought that was just going to stay that way. Is she going to open, like, is this, is this forever? Is this thing? Honestly, Nick, this is the place socks questions. I'm like, you have all the professionals in the room. I do you ask every question. I bet the doctors were all so nice and they went home.

They're like, he would not stop asking the dumbest fucking questions. Yeah. The resident is like, I'll come by and see you tomorrow morning. It'll probably be pretty early in the recovery or whatever. And I'm like, listen, we got a two and a half year old at home. As soon as we're good to be discharged, I would like to get out of here. Like, I'm trying to get out of here. I'm trying to get home to that baby.

She was like, well, the twins do you have to stay here for 24 hours? I'm like, yes, of course, 24 hours, fine. But like, after that, let's go. She was like, okay, heard, got you. Do they stay in the room or are they in a separate room? Yeah, they stay in the room. Yeah, they stay in the room. The only thing is different, though, is like, I don't know how other hospitals are,

but like the delivery room, no, granted, we didn't have the babies in the living room, but the delivery room is, like, pretty spacious. Yeah. Really nice. There's a nice bed for dad for him to chill. Once the babies are there, They throw you in like a much smaller room. And there's no bed for dad.

There's a recliner for dad. Okay. So do the twins go to the NICU? No. No. They did not have to go to the NICU. They were born at Iris was six pounds, one ounce. And Dove was five pounds, 11 ounces.

So they were like perfect weight for twins, had zero time in the NICU, which was like obviously another big anxiety that you go through when you find out. River was John is. So River the first night had to. to put her in one of those like incubator things which is you know never found a little scary and a little emotional but even the twins didn't even have to do that they didn't have that iris had so because she like kind of came out very fast she didn't have like the suction come out and so she was full of fluid she had so much fluid just which is in itself fascinating that like the birthing process if it goes quote unquote normal it like part of the the birthing process like again well

almost like, like popping a pimple almost. Like it squeezes whatever fluids that are in the baby out. But because she came out so fast, they were saying that she was full of fluid. You know, like you could just tell she had like a lot of fluids. So then they, like the next morning, they do like a bunch of tests, one of which is a hearing test.

And I don't know how it works, but Iris failed her at your hearing test at first. And that's when they explained she has a lot of fluids. so it's almost certainly causing, you know, the inability. I don't know how the test works, but apparently a lot of fluids, I guess if you have a lot of fluid in your ear, it makes sense that you can't.

Here very well. Here's well. And then they did some kind of, they did it when I was gone, getting you food, but they basically sucked the fluid out of her. Like there's some kind of procedure they do. I don't know if it's,

I don't know if it's a procedure. Did they do that for like adults? I don't know. When you have a sinus infection, you're always thinking, I would love someone to suck this shit out of me. Yeah. So they did that.

And then she passed her hearing tests. She passed. They both. Yep, they did good. I, so when you're in recovery, you have, when you get an epidural, you have to have a catheter, obviously, because you can't get up to go pee. Oh, that's so crazy, too. So before you can go home, you have to pee three times in the recovery. The first one, it's like, nurse has to see it, you know?

Second time, it's just like, everything's got to be charted. Three, three peas. What are they looking for? They're just looking for the right levels? That you can be because... Like kidneys and stuff. Yeah, because you're... It moves around and stuff.

Right. The epidural kind of like stops things from working. So it's like you gotta make sure you can, before you go home that you can be. Yeah. I can't. Oh, wow. And I'm like, I did not have this happen with River. I'm like so frustrated.

I'm like crying. They're giving me the, they're like blow bubbles into this cup. that relaxes your bladder. You drink all this drinks, like play on your phone, get distracted. Run the faucet. Run the faucet. Yes. Like spray cold water.

Spray warm water. Do the, like, all of these things, nothing is working. They're like, we're going to have to put in another catheter so that way we can drain your bladder because you'll. Burst. It's like getting. It can get bad. Yeah. Yeah.

I believe my, you had gone home to like put river down for a nap. My mom was there and they did like just an in-and-out catheter. So they just put it in. They emptied my bladder and took it out. Very. At this point, I'm like crying. The sweet, sweet nurse, she's like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, I'm just tired of being touched, you know?

Like, I just want my body back. Yeah. Like, I just am tired of being butterflyed and having hands up me and on me. And so they, that happened. And then they're like, okay, you've now got six hours until you got to get three peas out in six hours. So drink your drinks, take a walk, do whatever you got to do. Still, can't be. So then they do a 12-hour catheter.

They're like, we could do a 24-hour one or a 12-hour one. I'm like, well, again, I am trying to leave. So I don't want, if 24 hours, that means you're putting us here until tomorrow night. So I'm not trying to do all that. So they call my doctor. She agrees that the 12-hour one should be enough. Do the 12-hour one. And the sweet nurse is like, I'll get some lydicane this time to numb it before I put it in.

And I'm just like, like, you're crying. Just awful. You're just so done at that point, you know? And so that happens. I'm able to pee after that. Thank God. Oh, my gosh. Then go home.

And I have the worst flank. Both sides, back pain of my entire life. Cannot move, cannot walk. And I have a fever. Nick, I think he comes here to record. And I, like, wake up and I'm sweating and I'm chills, just like the worst. Call my doctor. She's like, I'm going to call you in some antibiotics.

You've got, it could just be from, like, your mount coming in or it could be, you know, some, yeah, something else. So let me know, like, if you have any other symptoms. I ended up, my fever broke, I had no other symptoms. So I was like, okay, I'll just wait to start the antibiotics. I'll just take Tylenol and ibuprofen. And then, like, two days later, same thing happens. So I'm like, I reach out to Chambliss, who is a labor and delivery nurse, obviously my best friend. And I'm like, this is what's going on.

She's like, sounds like you could have a kidney infection. I'm like, that is exactly what it is. I've had a kidney infection before. Like, my back hurts so bad. So I text my doctor. I'm like, I think this is what's happening. She's like, take your antibiotics. That's 100% like from the catheter.

It's just like because you had that so many times dealing with that. Plus just like the pain that comes with childbirth. Can only imagine. And now I feel like I am in like just the emotional state of everything. So the pain's gone like you're feeling. That worked pretty fast. The pain goes that fast. Yeah.

I mean for me. Like a night's sleep she was, I mean the next day she was. The antibiotics are shocked. Yeah. One day, she was down bad. It was tough. Can I ask, like, the pain in your vagina? Like, that goes away to that quickly?

Like, you feel, like, it just feels like you're kind of fine. I mean, I, so because I didn't really tear, I didn't. I wasn't as, like, swollen. Like, I didn't really have to use ice packs. Because they have stitches if you tear, right? So I guess, yeah, it's just, like, mind blowing that your body comes back. It's honestly, I mean, it's been very, very wild to just see, like, what. I did not.

I was not sure how I would react to a twin pregnancy. Oh, my gosh. What would happen? But now I'm in this, like, emotional state. I feel like I have separation anxiety from Nick. I feel like I'm not a good mom without him. And I feel like when he leaves, I'm like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? I've got two babies and River.

Like, I'm just, he does so much. Like, in the middle of the night, Nick is feeding both of them. He's got them both propped up. He burps one. He burps the other while I'm pumping. He just is, like, changing both of their diapers. He just is doing everything and he's, like, still holding me together, which I think is the hardest part. And, like, I have separation anxiety from him.

Like, when he leaves, I just, like, I get scared. And I obviously have never felt this way before. Before I'd be like, great, yeah, leave, whatever. I don't care. And now it's like really scary. Of course. I don't know if it's like, oh, this is just what comes with twins. Like, because it is two, it's double.

It's, like, I don't know if I'd feel this way if it were just one. Maybe I'd feel like it's more manageable. But it has been just like. And also with the river, she's been great. Like, she's transitioned so well. Amazing. But she also is, like, still acting out for attention. And it's like, do you, like, discipline the acting out?

Or do you just understand, like, she just wants attention and she just wants a hug and she just wants someone to play with her? And, like, how do you balance the, like, discipline versus, like, you can't be mean. You can't throw things and hit and act out. But also, like, I understand why you're doing that. And so it's just been, like, a lot emotionally. People feel that way after one kid sometimes. So, like, every, I've never gone through what you've gone through, but I'm like, everything you're feeling obviously is so valid and so normal. But also, like, you're an amazing mom. And I know Nick is over here fighting back tears or else he'd say it himself. But like, you're an incredible mom. I'm crying now. Like, shit. But like, like, you're an amazing mom. And, like, that's why you guys do it together. Like, that's why you guys do it. And like, you're a part, you're a team. And, like, that's what I think all of us see here is, like, how much you guys work together. And I'm amazing.

an incredible duo. I mean, I love the twins. I don't mean like, of course I love the twins. But I was thinking last night, again, I didn't have to go to the whole growing him inside my body. Obviously hard, but like, I'm like, I got an extra kid out of it. Like, this is great, you know? It's like, it's just a little bit more.

Yeah. It's just nice to see you guys, like, so happy. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's really beautiful. Yeah. Thanks, Mayor. You know, we definitely have help. Nelly's mom's been amazing.

My parents are in town right now, and Nali's mom had to go home for a bit. My brother's wife is due this weekend. Her baby, her first baby. Oh, yes. Your mom's been. My mom was like, okay, I'll be with you for the first week. And now I'm going to go and be with your brother. We've got Nick's parents for a week.

Obviously, Genevieve comes over and helps us every day. So the biggest piece of advice I've gotten from everyone is just like lean on your village. accept the help. I am proud of us for, obviously, we didn't have a night nurse with River. We were like, that was the most recommended thing for twins. Everyone whispers at least in L.A. They're like,

nice. Yeah. Like, no. It's like an L.A. secret. Yeah. Which pop off, you know, like, for us, we just have. You're taking it on yourselves. Enjoy.

Like, and again, having the help makes all the difference because, like, we. Having the help during the day. We'll feed them. like right where we're like around eight or nine it usually works out around that when river goes down and then and then like we have to feed them every three hours so it's like when we're waking up around 1130-ish and then like 132-ish and then there's like a five o'clock feeding and then so now we get to sleep from like five to eight you know and then I wake up and then if I have to come and record I'll do that but like having the help there in that window is so

it makes a world of difference because that can that extra sleep. And if I if we didn't have that help, that would make it a lot more difficult to to to do what we're doing. But we have enjoyed the we'll see what so we've got feedings. We had my mom for a week, two weeks and then Nick's parents for this week. My sister and her daughter, so my niece who's 12 or 13, they're going to come next week, but they're coming. We'll have two days where solo, solo, Adolo. So we're like, let's, you know. We're good.

Yeah. We really, well, we didn't, it's just spoiled River. We spoiled ourselves with River because River was, you know, she did really wake up in the middle of night and we would just bring her in the bed and we just loved kind of sleeping as a family when, you know, we'd always put her to bed by herself and then she'd wake up and then she'd always, every morning and just finished, you know, finish the sleep with us. A lot harder to do when you're feeding twins. Yeah.

And so it's been to just kind of like figure it out as we go. I'll like last night I slept with River most the night. She'll wake up and I'll just go into bed with her. Natalie be with the twins. Sometimes we switch up. A couple nights ago, River woke up in the middle of the night. And she just was like, I don't know, it was like one in the morning. She's like, I want to get up.

I'm like, no. But like I couldn't put her down, but Natalie needed me. And she just wasn't, she wasn't fucking with grandma for whatever reason. Like usually like she'll, grandma can go in there. but so River came into bed with us and she kind of like she was is a milanite so she's tired that's crazy uh you know she kind of put her head down and we're we're feeding the twins and nallie's pumping and honestly it was fine it it worked out so like in nallie was just like could we do this you know and i'm like yeah for sure like obviously it would have you know it's not

ideal because river doesn't get the best night of sleep and that happens but like we managed and it was totally doable and i don't know when that stuff happens, it gives you a lot of confidence that you can get through it. So, you know, those two days will be fine. You know, either River will sleep

through the night or she won't. And either way, she'll be okay. Pass River a bottle hopper if you'd one of them. She does. She's like, my turn to burp. She wants to pat him on the back.

She wants to burp. She likes to hold the bottle. She likes to be included for sure. Yeah. It's a hard balance of like how much do you make them work versus like just be a kid and have fun. You know, so it's like she likes to go and get the stuff, but then sometimes I'm like, okay.

Oh, yeah. When I was born, my mom, like, put my siblings to work. But they were like 10, so she was like, I don't care. Oh, you're helping. Yeah, you've got to help at this point. Yeah. Is there anything that's fully just been unexpected? Like, it sounds like you guys have just prepared for everything, but is there one thing where you're like, oh, we didn't see that coming?

Not yet. I think I definitely was prepared to breastfeed them both at the same time for every feeding. that was like I had followed a ton of things like clip it do you want to put it under so you don't have to do that. Honestly, it's kind of giving

them Regina George and that part of mean girls where she has like part of it you know what I'm saying? Yeah I think yeah I'd followed a ton of twin moms like before I was gave birth was really watching I followed one girl who was doing it like every night with me or every day with me catch up of like my twins and she kind of scared me a little bit, you know, with some of the stuff she was doing.

But she was feeding both of them for every single feed. And I was like, okay, I guess that's what I got to do. And the lactation consultant in the hospital was like, it's very hard at this age. You know, they're just so little and they just don't have a lot of control to like really get them both on and latched at the same time. Like just I would just wait to maybe try and do that. to later. So we knew that feeding them at the same time was the only way to survive. So I obviously started just like pumping as much as I could. And we were bottle feeding them with all of that. And then we had a lactation consultant come to our house. And I kind of told her the same thing of like,

I want a bottle or I want to breastfeed. But I have we have a two year old. Like I don't have all day every day to feed these. And she basically was like, yeah, it's going to take you over an hour. to feed both babies a full thing. And she was like, you don't have time for that, you know? Like, so she was so great at being like, if you want to just breastfeed one and bottle feed one, do that. If you want to just breastfeed for five minutes out of a day to say, like, hey, I connected with that baby. I did it. I, you know, do that.

And so I think, like, that letting go of that expectation of, like, you've got to simultaneously feed them. the only way you'll connect or survive. I mean, yeah, I would just say, like, the biggest thing, like, for the dads or just the partners out there, it's just, like, they're, it's, it's so obvious how much pressure moms put on themselves. Like, it's just, and Natalie puts a lot of pressure on herself where she, I'm just trying to, like, you just got to be patient with yourself, just give yourself a break. It's all okay, you know, just whatever.

It's totally fine. And then I'll shout out to the breastfeeding moms out there. Like, I don't have, have you. watch someone breastfeed before? Yeah. I was just my best friend. She could... The best way I can describe it, it's like, imagine threading a needle, but the needle is

constantly like shaking around and jostulating while you're emotionally charged and like feeling the pressure that if you don't thread this needle, that the needle will not survive while then, and if you don't do it quite fast enough, then the needle might scream in your face. That's a lot for one needle. And that's breastfeeding. It's like insanity. So shout out to all the moms.

will even attempt something like that because it seems impossible. The beepies bite too, don't they? Yep, I've got a biter. I was like... Iris has a suck. Yeah, Iris has a very strong suck. But it's crazy just how different they are,

not just how much they look different. But like Iris, like again, real strong suck. She eats, she guzzles her food. Dove? Pokey. Just real pokey. Which was the one that was like kicking?

But dove is a better burper. Then you got to, to work you really got to work for iris's burps you know stuff like just little stuff like that where you are it's how it feels like almost different personalities yeah we'll see if that like translates as they get older i'm curious of dove with her arm and her kick like i wonder if that will be her personality you know like later if she's going to be like a little rascal she's a she's a mini nanny she's got naliy's nose it's like you know anytime my mom was so great about like you know being like river is the priority like these big

babies are not going to know that they were set down, that they were held. Like, they're not going to remember. Like, River needs the most attention right now. And so when I would, like, when River was napping or when she was at the park with Nick or something, my mom would be holding dove. And she was like, it just takes me back, you know, like, 27 years ago. Like, when I just feel like I'm holding you as a baby. Like, she just looks so much like you. That's so cool. So that is really cool, obviously, to, because River just. But they're stunning. I mean, I have to say, not to, not to, like brack, but like, they are great-looking babies. Yeah.

They are. You guys make some cute kids. We make some cute kids. We make beautiful girls. We'll see. I don't know if a boy's in our future, but I don't know if our same luck will be with a boy. I'm sure it'll be great. They'll be tall.

So that's all. Yeah. That's true. Honestly, statistically, not actually. But you're going to get triplet boys. No. Think about it. Literally.

One, two, three. Jonas brothers. Literally. And they say, like, once you have multiples, you're like. like chances of getting multiples again goes up. Would you be like, I mean, obviously you'd be down, but I'm like, would you be down if you had the choice? Would you do twins again?

No. No. I thought about this last night. Not that my opinion matters. Outside of the pregnancy, because that's crazy. But the actual like, like the stage ringer now, I could. They, I mean, they really do. Just, I forget how. It's a scene, honestly, like with two, it's just one scene sounds so boring.

You know, it's like. I love that. mentality. Why have one when you can have two? It's great. Again, I'm speaking from someone who didn't have to do what she did. Bogos do like made people objectively happier. What the?

Bogos. Oh, that's true. That's so true. When you think about it. Yes, it's so much. It's like extra is. It's extra in the best possible way. It is.

But I will say as true as that is and as much as I hate that. that sentiment. Because, you know, it's like, people are like, oh, my God, you got two for the price of one. Like, that's so, now you're like, now you have three. And it's like, yeah. But the reason that you, the reason that I was ready to have another baby, like River obviously got older. I was like, oh, God, I miss the newborn stage. I miss having a baby.

Like, I want that again. Now I got it too. Now I feel like I'm in over my head. I'm overwhelmed. It's chaos. I'm like, can I really enjoy two as much as I was able to enjoy one? Okay, yeah. Or is it just so overwhelming?

That's the pressure she puts on herself. Do you feel like it could just be like a different experience than not necessarily like a better or worse one? Just like different. It probably is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It probably is.

I was talking to Victoria Fuller. Yeah, she came out. Was it before or after they were born? So she was here like days before they were born. Like literally the weekend before they were born. And I was talking to her yesterday and I was saying like, you know, yeah, I haven't left the house. I haven't, you know, just, just woo. And she was like, you know, you should really look at, like, you get to stay home right now.

Instead of like I don't get to leave the house or I haven't left the house, it's like I get to stay home with my three babies and like just sit and nest and have in-laws or have Genevieve, like help with whatever stresses. there are, you know, you don't have to grocery shop or do laundry or wash bottles. Like, you can just sit and hold your babies and play with your babies and how special is that? And it's like the people like that in your life who get to reframe your thinking, I think are so important during this time because you do. You put so much pressure on yourself. You make yourself feel like you're not doing enough or that you could be doing more or that you just, you're not a good mom or whatever it is, you know, and so having those people in your life, I think, are so important. I also think nobody needs a bottle washer or a sterilizer.

I'm going to go ahead and put that out there right now. The bottle washer? You don't need it. You don't need it. Why not? Because you can wash it like a normal person. And you know what? The bottle washers, you have to have. It's like so many extra steps to be like, I could have just washed that. The bottle washer, you have to have, like, distilled water. Oh. You have to put in the, like, descalers. Then you have to clean the descalers or whatever to make sure that there's,

You're giving me, just put some dog dishwater. Just because you can have a product for something. Doesn't mean you need it. There's a lot of unnecessary. Have a bottle. If you're bottle feeding, definitely have a bottle warmer. Yeah. And say, what's the one product you have?

If you have twins, what do you have to have? Probably the Twinsie pillow. Twinsie pillow. Yeah. What is that? Is it like a, it's like a, it's like a, I don't know, like a little mini play pen or crib. No, it was, it was supposed to be our bedside bassinet. I bought like a twin bedside bassinet.

We put it together and I was like, this is huge. I don't think this is going to fit on our bedside. So we just put it in our kitchen and lay the Twinsie pillow in, which is basically a pillow with two little holes in it. So they hang out there most of the day. Yeah, it's a place for them to lay down. You can feed Nick feeds them both that way if he's got to feed them both. I'm learning every day.

You know, like I'm finding new things every day that are going to make our lives a little bit easier. But overall, it's been, it truly has been bliss. and when I put the the pressure and like the negative thoughts to the side, I'm really proud of us for what we've done

and how we've managed it all. You've crushed it. You just said twins. Literally. And you're sitting here. And I'm sitting here with mad anxiety and leaky titties.

Napkins on your tits. Why don't you get out of here? So yeah, I'm going to go home to my babies. Wait, I have some like rapid-fire question. Oh my gosh, yes, please. I know last time you said, that like your pillow during the delivery was like the most important part. We remember the pillows.

Okay, so you got the pillow. Yes. And I do stand by that still. I mean, I wasn't able to use it during the actual during the actual delivery, but like to labor and to just be with your own laying your, even on recovery, like laying your face on your own pillow and not those scratchy hospital pillows and a

hospital, like a stroller fan that you can wrap around your hospital bed because it's recovery room. Like it's hot. They got to keep those babies warm and I you know you need a fan I'm still sleeping with that fan in my face um what was your first meal post birth because you said you couldn't eat for like 24 hours because it took so long it ended up being like 2 a.m. by time we got down to recovery so nick was like I guess I could go to taco bell I was like no I'll just wait till morning you waited till morning waited it till morning and nick went and got me

a dialogue breakfast burrito yes that's a good way a dialogue breakfast burrito an orange juice and an ice vanilla latte. And it was chef's kiss. Perfection. Is there a meal you're eating like consistently? Like to now? Not really. I mean, I have to like get so many protein, you know, like to breastfeed. So it's, the lactation

consultant was like, who knows what she likes to eat? Like who's cooking for her? And it was like Nick. She's, and she's like, cook what she likes. So you know she'll eat it. Yeah. She's got to eat, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Snacks in between. So nothing's changed to that department. Nothing's changed in the department.

He's always cut for me. We can cut this one, but how was your first shit? So that's like a thing, right? No, no, no, it is. You leave the room. No, it's, that's like, everyone's like so, yeah, they're so scared. They give you Miralax in the hospital.

They mix it with apple juice. Mm-hmm. Chug it. You're fine. No issues in that department. Period. Good. No pain.

No issues. She's a healthy gal. She's a healthy gal. Pipes are working. Yeah. River was pooping. She's fully a potty train. Shout out to Nali.

Nali did that all of ourself. Wow. Nally, I'm going to get down in a lot of apartments, but when it comes to like, um, milestones, I would, like,

River would still be in diapers because I would be like, you're too. Crazy like you're 13. Why don't you need to be out of diapers? And again, River was, she's a quick learner. She,

she learns fast, but it was like one day I came home and she was potty trained. That's wild. She's pooping yesterday. And she was like rubbing her tummy because usually I thought she had to pee. And I'm like, are you done?

She's like, no, still pooping. And then she was like, Mama poops and Papa poops and Dada poops and everyone poops. Did you guys get her that everybody poop? No. It's a good book. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my cousin got it.

No, I thought of that book, but like she was like telling me everyone poops. And I'm like, who told you? How do you know? Honestly, yeah, destigmatized poop. Yeah. Yes. It's not that scary. My last question.

Did you get a push present? No, yet. He keeps saying yet, but I don't know. Well, like, when's the expiration date on a push present, you know? We've had a lot of expenses lately. So, you know. He's like, you know. We didn't have to get that car.

Maybe the three car seats. I feel like that's probably your push present, right? Well, you get two, right? Well, no, the second baby was the push present. Oh, that's so true. Oh, my gosh. So you canceled out one, but you still got another. Haven't got around to that yet.

Take your time, buddy. That's the bros story. Thank you for sharing with us. I was so excited to find out you were coming in. I know. You're doing so good. Can I do it? I don't know.

We'll see if I can. I want you get out of here, get to our babies. I'll be right behind you. Okay. Have fun with Love Island. Okay. We'll do. Dave Holmes.

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ready to help you grow your business. That's upwork.com, upwork.com. UPWRK.com, Upwork.com. Don't forget, Vile Files Plus now offers ad-free episodes for all Vile Files episodes, including Ask Nick, Reality Recap, and Going Deeper. Plus, if you love Asked Nick, You will absolutely love our Ask Nick updates where you get updates of your favorite calls,

our deep dive on all your favorite reality recap TV shows, and our pop culture roundups. Where we talk about all your favorite pop culture topics that we didn't get to in this week's episode, plus deep dives on our going deeper guest and so much more. All I have to do is go to Vaughals Plus, and you will be lucky you did. Welcome Dave Holmes. Hello. A friend of show. If you don't know who Dave Holmes is, he's.

He's, first of all, legend. Oh, that's very kind of. Dave was one of, no, truly, one of the first VJs? Yeah, I wouldn't want to first. Yeah, I'm, first. I'm such a legend that I'm throwing up into the microphone. I, uh, yeah, no, it was a VJMET back in the day. Great voice.

Coughing voice when I'm not coughing. What was there 98 to 2002? Oh, hell yeah. Which was a real, yeah, that was a real golden age. Yeah. It was, you know, that was boy bands. That was Christina. That was limp biscuit and corn.

Yeah. That was early jackass. Yeah. It was everything. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm a huge. I was like obsessed with me.

There was something about going to college and feeling in my first two years. I don't know. I had a lot of lonely experiences in college. I mean, I had a lot of friends and stuff, but just being away from home. Yeah. And my girlfriend who was. Obsessed with a time. Obsessed with it and not a healthy way.

Yeah. Who didn't go to my school. He got you through. And it was something about just like turning that on that made you feel like less alone. Yeah. That's awesome. It's like your buddy. Honestly, it was the same for me.

Like, you know, high school was fun, but I was definitely an oddball kid. And college was weird. But yeah, MTV was always, it always felt like a, like a window into a world that I could thrive in. You know what I mean? And it's very weird that I got the opportunity to like go through that window and live there for a while. How did you? The first want to be a VJ contest. Oh, sick. That's cool.

In 1998. Yeah, I was living in New York, working in advertising. I called in sick. And I stood in line, and I didn't get the job. But then they brought me back on as a writer. And then just because I was around, there was a show that they were starting. And they tested me for it. And that was that.

A writer? Were you studying that in college? No. No, not at all. majored in psychology. I was going to be a clinical therapist. Okay. But then I took a few years off as like, let me work in advertising, see what I want to do.

live in New York City, have the big city experience. And then my life took a left turn. That's really cool. Into, yeah. Literally like into the land of Oz. Now he writes for Esquire. Now he writes for Esquire. No way.

That's really cool. It's fun. It's fun. I'm liking a lot. Who is your favorite VJ like growing up? Okay. Oh, okay. There was a guy named Kevin Seal, who you might not remember late 80s, just kind of like a weirdo.

It's just sort of a fun, goofy weirdo. I loved Duff. this is all going to be before your time. Duff was the Charlie girl. She was a model. Mary was meant to be born in the 80s. Honestly, it's really rude that I couldn't be an MTV BJ. That was kind of my dream job growing up.

I would hear Martha quit on 80s on 8 and I was like, that should be me. That should have been you. Well, you never know. I mean, here's the thing. Even with all this merger stuff with Paramount and everything, they're not talking about spinning off the brand. So they want to do something with it. Bring it back.

It could live again. Not in the way that it was. Like, it won't be a linear cable channel again. Yeah, okay. Kind of gone. But that spirit can be revived in some way. Yeah. And it has to be given to the youth.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I don't know what it would be, but I'm 30 years too old. Yeah. I wonder what, yeah, what your thoughts on like how MTV, we can get to love with over. Like how MTV has like, it obviously is such this, like, youthful expression. And then now it, like, I grew up watching MTV classic. Like that's what, yeah, just because like by the time when I like MTV was basically ridiculousness reruns by the time I was like a teenager.

So I would go to classic because I loved 80s music and I'm like a freak goodness reading books on it. But like I wonder like what the what you think it could like be going forward. I don't know. I mean, I just don't know. I mean, I think I'm much too old to know. Yeah. I think it's like, excuse me. What it was.

I mean, I did a podcast. about this. It's called Who Killed the Video Starts, eight episodes about the story of the arc of MTV. It's out where you get your podcast. But it started really as a way for American Express to reach the 18 to 25 demographic

because like in 1980, 81, really nobody was doing that. And they wanted new credit card customers. And so Warner Amex cable was like, what can we do? And what's like cheap? And it was all music videos just all in a row. Right. Rod Stewart. You do know your stuff. Oh, yeah. Let's do a spinoff episode.

I saw Rod Stewart in Chicago at an H&M shopping for clothes. And we were on the second level, just me and Rod Stewart. Wow. I did not say hi. Did you think he was sexy? Oh, yeah. Of course. There are celebrities and then there are icons.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was in an H&M with an icon just hanging out. Yeah. I just think Rod Stewart is so funny because it's like the reason he ended up having such a huge like second win in his career was because he had videos. Right. Yeah, and MTV was like, oh, I guess we could play these. Yes.

And like three artists had videos and he was one of them. It was like Pat Benatar and him. Yeah. And then like a bunch of randoms. But anyway, yeah, so it started that way. That could not survive now. Like young people your age have grown up without linear cable really, without even really the thing of like sitting down and waiting for your thing to come on or turning on the radio and waiting for them to play your favorite song.

Everything's been on demand for you forever. everything's been 360 degrees. Like you got to let people into your daily life and, you know, build a brand on social media and all that stuff. So it would incorporate all of those things. But in a way that, like, I don't, it's not for me to know. Yeah. But I do think it can be given back to like a younger generation. Question of humor.

And I know we have to get to Love Island. What was the thing growing up? I don't know if you experienced this. But when I was in high school and we grew up, not poor, but like, we didn't, you know, we didn't have cable. but you had certain friends who had the cool stuff, you know, like you had the friend that had all the movie channels, like the HBOs and you're like,

oh my God, they have so many options for movies. Like, did you have an experience like that or was like everything just like on demand? Like, did you have certain friends where you'd be like, I think you were only friends with them because they had the cool shit, but there was something that made them really cool because they had the cool shit.

Honestly, for me, I have like four older siblings who are all like eight to 13 years older than me. me. So for me it was like their shit. That was like the cool shit. So like I played I would play like guitar here. I remember like vividly sneaking into my brother's room to like play guitar hero when he was gone. And I would play I played a Jun Jett song and Guitar Hero and I was like oh so this is like what everything should be. But as far as like that my generation was very much like I just pirated shit online. Yeah. Like I didn't there weren't friends that had the cooler stuff. It was like oh I can figure out how to like get this and in that like my brain was like oh I'm gonna watch like every

single Joan jet video that's ever been made and every single interview with her because it's on YouTube yeah so my thing was always like I didn't have to like go to someone else to do it I could just find whatever I wanted at any time that's on the internet that's wild that's so well I also think like the iPod touch and the iPad yeah and like those devices like very much a divide of like some of the kids had an iPhone, some of them did not. And I was like a flip phone kid. And I could just see them playing Angry Birds and stuff. And that was the coolest thing ever.

And well, did you know that you were benefiting from not having the world having access to your little brain back then? And you know what? I missed my iPod shuffle. Not they have a little brain. Same. I just found mine, but I don't have a charger that will charge it. So it's just sitting there full of, I don't even know what. There is something.

I too have siblings who are eight and ten years older. Yeah. And we didn't have MTV when it. first started. But there was a kid down my street who did. And this is actually a thing that I found doing the podcast. Like all of the people who I interviewed who ended up working for MTV or around MTV or around the music business, the music video business, none of them had it. They all had to go to their grandma's house or to the kid down the street's house or whatever. And there is something to like coveting the coolness of an older sibling or the like cable or video games

or cool stuff of a kid down the street that always makes it like aspirational like a world you're always trying to can't believe i'm actually here yes for me it was like it was a world that was past yeah totally so the the kid who i was already like friends with but the kid who got cable first on our street uh i of course was like let me be in your house all the time so i can sit two inches in front of the tv and watch it now it's like you know however it 40 years later uh and i'm like in this business and he's literally a librarian you know what i mean i think I think if you have it and you can just, you can always look at it, it's not as special. But if it's like, yeah, if there's, if you got to do a little work to get to it, then you're always going to want to get to it.

All of this and more can be heard about in my podcasts, Who Killed the Video Star, wherever podcasts. That's cool. So you're just honestly to go, you can search for it right now while you're listening. I'm going to listen to it on my drive home. Well, sadly, this episode is not about MTV. It is about the best of Love Island. And Zach put together a nice little... It's an award show.

It's an award show. Before we get to the award show, Dave is new to Love Island. Now, Dave, you know, not new to reality TV and certainly not new to reality TV love competition. He was and is a fan of Bachelor Nation, which is how I met Dave, I guess, indirectly. Yeah. But yeah, this was my first time in the villa. What brought you to the villa? What was it about this season that made you say, you know what?

I should give it a shot. Honestly, desperation, like a high level of just ambient distress. Yeah. You know, the world's a little crazy right now, not to get into it,

but it's like these are stressful times. Yeah. And at the beginning of the summer, I started seeing, you know, bus shelter ads and promos. And I was like, you know what? It might be literally medically necessary

for me to start getting really into Love Island. Because it seems like just the kind of thing that I can like invest, just enough of my emotions into. Were you, you know what I mean? Were you, two-per-question, intimidated by how many episodes there were and then surprised by how easy it was to keep up?

Well, ignorance was bliss, because I just assumed it would be on like maybe two, three times a week. I did not understand the investment that I would have to be made. Yeah, daily investment. So I will say there were weeks when I got busy and then it was like, okay now it's you know now it's Sunday I got a span of time to watch this and it was like

there are how many hours of this I had to get through so I did I did a little skipping around I'm not gonna lie I do think there should be like an omnibus like Sunday night episode I know there's after sun but like I feel like there should just be like a recap night yeah here's something you really need to know you know so that yeah still go back and watch the 18 hours in the last week that you missed right but if you just if you just need to know enough to keep going I I feel like they should give you that. It's not a bad idea. Okay.

I'm available to produce and host. Great. Anyway. But yeah, no, it is definitely a massive, massive time commitment. Yeah. And my partner was into it enough to be like one episode of night. Because some of them are long. Yeah.

Sometimes you're in there for an hour and a half. The finale, two hours. Yeah. I was like, this is literally a Marvel movie. Which is kind of unnecessary. It could have been for you. The last two episodes are really just, they're really putting a bow on. it, you know, in a way that

could have been 45 minutes. Could have been an email. Could have been an email. Yeah. Just let me know who wins. Yeah. That's how I felt. I almost didn't watch it. And then I knew I was coming in this weekend. I was like, I got to watch it. But I just saw a few TikToks, you know, and I was like, I think I got the gist. Oh, yeah. TikTok will catch you up. Sure. Yeah. And yeah, some things on Instagram reels caught me up.

But I do have some questions. If you don't mind. Oh, wow. Can I just ask some questions about the general thing? Okay. Okay. Question number one. Is it always this gooey? It is. Yeah. In fact. As long as I've been watching. Yeah, it has been golier. I could not believe how much it felt like Doubledair.

You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, there is an aspect of Doubledair too. Yeah. Like, why are we messy now? I wonder if it's like, it's a generation of people that grew up on Nickelodeon and getting slime, though. Yeah. But I think they are marketing to the youth.

Yeah. I'm sorry, the baked beans in the mouth to the other mouth. The sardines. I would rather take a sardine than a baked bean mouthful. I was hungover watching that. Epo. Yeah, that's a nightmare. Okay. I didn't understand.

I think the kids dig it? I don't know. Were they? I was like, maybe I am getting older because I was like, wow, this is maybe too far for me. Our Booker was telling me that she has a daughter, that's a teenage daughter. And I was on the phone with her. She's like, I'm at the grocery store trying to find this poppy drink because my daughter was like, I got to have the poppy drink. No way.

Because it was obviously a big sponsor of Love Island. And it was just like, it was such a like, oh, my. man, like this shit works in terms of like, you know, marketing. Yeah. It works. And her daughter or the teenage daughter, like, needed to have the Poppy. The Love Island Poppy drink. Wow.

Well, yeah, I just, there were time, like, early, it felt like, you know, let's get out those finger paints. And it was like, which is why I called it sex kindergarten for most of this season. Because it just, it really felt like here, you know, it's craft's time, but also we're going to open mouth kiss. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. And then, and then, like, after a couple that I had missed, I came back. and it's Megan the Stallion, and she's like, well, you better sit on a cake. Yeah. Because that's the challenge or whatever. I couldn't believe how super sloppy it was. Yeah.

Yeah. I always felt like it was like cocoa melon for like, horny kids. Yeah, horny coca melon. Corny cocoa melon is like this show for kids that's like basically just, um, bright colors. It's like, um, music. Yeah. Like overstimulating your brain to keep you watching it.

And I have always wondered if Love Island is doing the same thing of just this like hyper-stimulation and then sex to keep you like locked in. Right. Okay. Interesting. I know we're eight seasons in. So maybe this is just a very basic thing that I'm just now like catching on to. But like is it intended to be torture?

Because it feels it feels like they are. A humiliation ritual. I mean all of competition shows are. A little. But this felt like, okay. So the whole thing is, you know, during a challenge you can make out with whoever, whoever. Yeah. And in fact, you sort of have to make out with everyone.

Like whether you're into them or not. Boundaries are very vague. Boundaries are very vague. And like your body doesn't know what's a challenge and what's not. You know what I mean? And like when you're like smooching, you know, when you're like, when your tongue is rubbing up against the tongue of another person, hormones don't stop and say like, it's a challenge. Is this a Duncan Heinz challenge or whatever? It just happens.

And so you're like, no wonder you're not making good decisions, you know? It just felt like they forced all these people into a second puberty but with like good bodies now. I will say though from being the Bachelor when you are, I want to say forced

but kind of forced to make out with multiple people at once. It really becomes like all the romance is taken out. It really becomes very technical and very like you don't feel the butterflies. You know, it's like, it's like, all right.

Like on a group date night? Yeah. I mean, you've got like six girls back to back. Yeah, like, early on, when you're on a group date with like 15 women and, you know, early stages of, you know, when I don't know how it is for the bachelettes, but for the bachelors, when they're nervous and they don't know what to say, their go-to is just to make out.

They just like, let's just make out. So at the end, you're just like, like, fuck, all right, here we go. Yeah. And I will say that,

I don't know if that's the same as Love Island, but there is an element of like it does take the, it really becomes a technical thing and not a, a physical thing.

Yeah. I couldn't believe how many challenges ended with just all of them making out. Yeah. Just with each other and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

That was, that was, I don't know, that was surprising to me. Yeah. And it just felt like things are happening in their bodies that they don't fully understand.

Yeah. And we're having And it's on TV. Yeah. Why are we mad at Zach? Great question. Like mad? I think people have been like way too hard on him.

People have lost the plot, you know? Do we just need a villain? Like the cold place. That's probably it. Yeah. And I love this season because there really were no villains in the best way. I loved how for the most part the islanders really bonded and enjoy each other. There's clearly a closeness with them.

And I think that's actually probably the most astute observation is they, they, they, They needed a villain. Then there wasn't really a good one. Sincere, kind of. Yeah, sincere. Yeah. Bryce got a pass because he was with Trinity, so to speak. And Bryce, I think, being a little bit more older and more mature,

had some nice little, like, I think that showed. One lines that were really like, you know what? You know, I think we are starved in reality TV of, like, positive male role models. Or just, like, men you want to root for. and Bryce gave us that. And for whatever reason, Zach got the short end of the stick. Because, you know, like all of them.

And we've, you know, we've critiqued Zach and we've, you know, pointed out things where you nitpick. But you're right. There's like, it got to the point where it's like, I said this a couple episodes. I'm starting to feel bad for Zach because it's like, all right.

Well, yeah, he's not perfect. But like, who is? Exactly. But like, why are we? I thought gal was much more of a jerk. Yeah. And in a way that made me angrier. And yet he seems to be seen

Like Zach was never a jerk Yeah Zach was a silly guy sometimes Just like maybe a bit of more literature For another reason And I experienced this a little bit Like a lot of the criticisms Zach got where

Zach comes across to me He's kind of he's in his head He actually he said that as much He's I think more analytical When it comes to reality TV People read analytical As strategic and disingenuous I see

So when that's like a lot of feedback I got when when someone thinks out loud and kind of talks about what they think might happen or they make observations about other people some audience members you know you know how it is when we're talking about people on the show if we were to like say anything about like say Trinity that sounded anything other than just like you know what I have nothing but nice thing to say about Trinity some Trinity fans would take that you know not very well yeah so to speak and I think Zach was one of the people in the villa who was willing to just talk you know he's a you know you get nervous you don't

have to say you could ask questions by producers you're asked you know and so they use a lot of those those those those commentary as like narration for the show as like a little insight to what's going on the villa and I think Zach became that narrator almost in a way that like I guess people decided you know was a certain way okay so to speak all right but I think more to simplify it I think they needed a villain okay fair enough and he's a really bad A bad villain. Like I was a, like I was, I like to think I was a bad villain, but I digress. Is anyone else with me on, uh, there should be a golden love island? I know that golden is bachelor brand. 100%. I want to see, I want to see 30 something. Or your age. I think reality,

30s to 50s. Which is why I think age of attraction, our, our show really popped off because you don't get a lot of reality of representation for the 30 or 40 somethings or the 50 somethings. And everyone's single. Like there's no, like nowadays, you know, with divorce and dating, there's, you know, it's not like 30 years ago where you got, you, you settled out in your 20s and you. Yeah. You muscle through a marriage no matter what, you know, now people, a lot of singles out there at every stage of life. Right. Thriving.

And they are just as interesting, if not more interesting. Yes. In terms of how they connect. Much more, I would imagine. And the things they talk about. And that's where I want, yeah, I think some of the competitions could be, or conversations could be a little bit more fun to watch because you don't always have to be gooy, as you say. Yeah, would you want it to be golden gooy or would you want it to remove the goo? Dry as a bone. Dry as a bone.

Love Island, desert golden. Yes. Sunset on Love Island is my working title. I know that's a little grim. I know it suggests imminent death. That's not what I mean. I just know that golden is, you know, that's the bachelor's business. It's kind of like the cocoon of Love Island.

Yeah. What would a challenge look like? What would a challenge look like? I, you know, I feel a lot quieter and more cerebral. You know what I mean? Yeah, way less messy. You know, there could be some sprinting. You know, there could be a decathlon.

Let's see how well you're holding up. Are you doing resistance training? Yes. Heart rate monitors. Yeah, your heart. Right, right. Exactly. Yeah.

Exactly. Daily blood pressure checks. And then whoever scores like the highest and the lowest get paired up. That's the heart rate. That's right. The heart challenge is checking your blood pressure. Look at this. Look at this. It writes itself. It writes itself. Again, I'm available to produce and host. And yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it. Okay. Yeah. Well, if one's come up, people, yeah. Is it time for our award ceremony? All right, let's do it. So we have seven categories total.

We have a video for each one. And it'll just be up to you guys. There's five or six nominees. There's one. There's one. winner and you will just determine who is the best of the best. Yeah. Also like the announcer and this is pretty good. That's all I have to say. And the edit is pretty good too. The first category is most dramatic moment. Most dramatic moment.

Melanie versus Beatrice. The heart rate challenge. Titi and Casey versus the villa. Movie night. Melanie and sincere family. visit. That's a loaded category. Yeah.

Yeah. I have a solid front runner, though. Casey and Titi versus the villa. That's what I... Mine is the iconic line, I'm Titi. I'm Titi. Which I said several times a day since. Me too.

Yeah. It's good. It's good stuff. And it was real. I mean, like, you know, Anaya being held together by her girlfriends on the couch waiting for Casey to come in. I do want to give a shout out to the Melanie and Batuice moment, just because it really set up Melanie's archery.

It did. And who I thought was the queen of the villa. Yeah. I just like, she had a good comeback from that. The sincere and Melanie relationship to me was the most interesting. It had the best arc. It was, you know, the most relatable to like modern dating.

Movie Night though was maybe because we didn't have a, so movie night is a love island staple. Yeah. That we didn't get last season. And that was very upsetting to most of us. Is anyone else here Catholic or raised Catholic? Mm-hmm. Okay. that's my idea of purgatory.

You got to watch moments from your life with your family, with your parents, your significant other, your friends, your kids, whatever. If you survive it, you get to go to heaven. But think of all the interactions and fights and disagreements you have with people or interactions, you know, the time, or even when you, like, you didn't think you were rude to the vivista,

but maybe, and maybe you didn't intend to be rude. Yeah. You know, it was an excellent movie night, but to your point, let's give the award to Casey and T-Tee because they didn't have the help of movie night, which is basically you're going to get drama no matter what. It was highly concentrated drama. Yes.

Movie night feels like it was spread out over the full episode. T-T. T-T. I'm going to go, Casey and T-Tee. Yeah. Right. I'm T-T. T-T ended up being awesome. I agree.

Like just in absolutely. She was T-T. She didn't lie. Because the bombshells are often treated as of like, you know, not the original cast. It's, you know, the whole atmosphere is very high school. and so for her to flourish in that environment and to make friends with the rest of the women, I thought it was great.

And I think she really... She had a great art. She really... She made it clear that she belonged in the best possible way and it takes a very confident person in that environment to be able to do what she did.

And the winner is Casey and Titi. All right, that's fine. Unfortunately, Casey and Titi cannot be with us today to accept the reward, but they are very gracious and honored to be recognized. They don't know about this, but I'm sure they would be happy if they did. For their award.

Yeah. All right. Next category. Okay. Most romantic moment. Trinity and Bryce reunite after Casa. Melanie and Sincere's love letters. Casey and Titi become boyfriend, girlfriend.

Anaya and Carl's final date. Trinity and Bryce's final date. Easy. Bryce and Trinity reuniting Yeah, I agree That's what I might Yeah

They wore the same color Didn't even mean to He didn't even mean to I know Can you handle it? He was running for her Yes Yeah

And it just Again so much of Love Island reminds me of Being on The Bachelor And just the emotional Fuckery that you have to experience

And just you could You could see Bryce's genuine You know feelings So much before that relationship We were kind of

Questionin Are they friends people were wondering if Bryce was being sincere or if he was this kind of coasting with Trinity but like you saw a person who truly missed someone for what for him felt like forever even though it was probably four days and in those moments they're constantly again

they don't know what's the other person doing and to him see like that she was waiting for him as much as he was waiting for her and you saw the emotion come out in him just like was it was a great moment and truly authentic in the best possible way. Yeah. I agree.

Yeah. There was a moment during after the boys came to the villa for the girls Kasa Amor where a couple of the women were like, oh, I miss my guy. You do not. Come on. There's 12 new guys here. Some of them are hot. Like this is, what are we doing? Go kiss some boys.

Yeah. I think we were all annoyed at that moment. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But like it turns out in Trinity and Bryce's case, too, been true. They actually had a bond and, you know, and survived. Very sweet. So the winner is Bryce and Trinity.

Also, Bryce and Trinity could not be with us today, but they are very happy to accept this reward. We are very happy to accept their reward on their behalf. Sponsored by the color yellow. And they will be not receiving something in the mail from us. Yeah. But congrats to them. Best mean.

Casey opening the empty door. Give me 10. Kenzie doing the splits I'm Titi Ladies Can I get a kiss French fries Solid work

Thank you Yeah thank you I'm gonna say French fries for me Because as someone who's a little older Did not know What French fries asked I didn't either I didn't know what DJ meant either

I'm kind of over the whole French fry thing In the show I was very Caleb in that moment when he was like, what's French fries and Trinity goes DJing? And Caleb's like, oh, for sure. And I was like, yeah, I still don't know what that is. And I don't think Caleb knew what it was either. Did you?

Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's my generation. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know French fries. I knew DJing. Yeah. Is that what I think it is?

It's the same thing. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's not the same thing.

But it's for girls. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Different movements, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. But, um... Out versus... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But... Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Right, right, right, right, right. But same sentiment, if you're just going with hands. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's the same ballroom, different dance. Sure. Yes.

Tango versus salsa, whatever. Tango versus cash. I, obviously, I'm T.T., Unforgettable moment. Was. But I got to go with Kenzie doing the splits. If only for the splits and defiance, caption. I don't know if you saw that. No. But when, yeah, when all of the women like could hear the new, the new women on En Casa Amor, and they were like, fuck you. And then she, like, as she always does, did a split. But this one was an angry split. Yeah.

Which I never really seen before. So that was groundbreaking. Yeah. But the captions, which I always watched it in captions, said splits in defiance. Yes. Amazing. Which is amazing. It was amazing. I've been sending that meme out a lot. I did send it to my friends being this weekend being like, I'm going to get drunk. splits and defiance and then I did do that. So it's a really inspiring. It really is. You can do the splits. You can do the splits. You can do the splits. You can do the splits? You can do the splits? What are your thoughts on Corbyn? But I'll try. I, uh, he, I, there didn't seem to be a whole lot there. I, I don't know why I love him so much. Really? I just he, he, Melanie. Melanie. I think I, I, when he left and he cried. Uh-huh. And I felt like, you know, he's kind of that tip of. very macho, very kind of alpha male guy. But I'm not saying he's perfect and obviously things we apologize for but he struck me as someone who's very direct

and overall pretty honest. Yeah, I agree. Not easily influenced by his peers in the best way. Right. And I really enjoy, I thought a very telling moment that I really thought was meaningful. I don't know if most people picked up on it.

But when, after he called out sincere, and then they had that chat was sincere and they were still boys, they were still cool, you know, and then after he left, you heard from the rest of the people in the villa saying like this was a guy who, that wasn't,

that was the only moment we saw him do that, but it was clearly that the only moment that he would hold his boys accountable. And I think that when it comes to male relationships and friendships, I think is really important in friend groups to have a type of Corbyn who is, you know,

brave enough to say, you know, to not be, you know, sincere, lovable, affable, everyone's best friend, but he's never going to check his boys in a way that I think Corbin would. He would probably do it, sincere would do it in a gentler way that I don't know would ever really land the way maybe his father, what his father said with. Yeah, do it in an analogy that wouldn't make any sense. But it would sound, it would sound so lovely and nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Casey opening the empty door, that was, or the nobody at the door. That was when he was a plant person. Episode one.

Yeah, that was because he was a plant person. And not a cat or a dog person. Yeah, cat or a plant. That was, I was still, I think, picking up the pieces of my skull because that was right around the time when it was like, Arianematics with kind of, you know, substitute teacher energy a little bit was like, get behind the door. Is it doggy or a missionary or cowboy or whatever? I, that's when I was like, oh, I don't,

this is more than what I bargained for. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is a dirtier. Yeah. It's a more adult thing. And also a more kindergarten thing. Exactly.

I was ready for it. So, yeah. Anyway. I felt bad for in that moment. Who the fuck is a plant person and not a cat or a dog person, unless you're allergic to animals, I know. Which is a whole separate thing. Just to, just to bring it back, what do we think is the winner for best meme?

I vote splits as well, personally. I don't think it gets enough appreciation. I think she gets trolled a little bit. I think it's actually kind of iconic. I'm going to go Corbyn, just to be a different voice in the room. But it sounds like Kenzie. It sounds like the winner is. Sounds like the winner is.

Kenzie doing the splits. Sometimes in joy, sometimes in anger, sometimes in grief. Sadly, Kenzie could not be with us today to accept her award. Because she is doing a split. She is doing a split, but she is very honored to be not only nominated, but the winner of this category. Difficult to get her into her behalf. She's doing a split. Yeah, it's the whole leg thing.

Yeah. How'd they get her home? Do you know how many, how many splits do you think she's going to have to do for the next year? She's walked in for five years. And I'm sure as like the thing about girls that can do the splits and as we've seen with Kenzie, they do be doing the splits because they can. So I think this is maybe best scenario for that.

What are some low hanging fruit? Opportunities? Opportunities and campaigns. Brands can get behind. I'm going to say bring her here. Get her in the splits in the studio. Yeah, for sure. It's in the studio.

But how. How could our girl, Kenzie, monetize this experience? Twix, the left one, the right one. Twix. Yeah, lots of candies you can do with the split. Pants, like pants that can survive the split. Gene's ads.

Yeah, a merry legible. Come on back around. A split of Prosecco in a bar. Split the check. Split the check. A divorce attorney. Ooh. Oh, I like that.

I really like the gene one. I think she could really be a spokesperson for a great gene company. Like Venmo. Split the bill. Split the bill. Yeah. There's those. We got you.

Oh, there we go. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. That's good stuff. All right, next category. God. The way that we brainstormed together, I love it.

Best non-islander character. Megan the Stallion. Sincere's dad. Melanie's mom. Bryce's grandmom. Producer in the wall. Whoa. The owl.

This is easy for me. It's sincere's dad. Oh, sincere's dad. We might be split on this. I'm producer in the wall. See, I'm Bryce's grandma. I'm almost Bryce's grandma. I like a naughty granny.

I really do. I played one in college in a one-act play and it was a horny grandma. It was like my favorite role I've ever played ever. Because you can get away with everything. Give me one line. Oh, God. I mean, it's been 15 years. You can make one up.

I'm not going to know. I was talking like this and I was like, bring this. Soup. Bring it over here. Give me some more. I had a butler. I was a horny grandma and I had a butler and I made him do all my stuff. You liked the way the butler did the stuff? I did. I would make him play different characters around the table and it was like role play with my butler.

I just thought Sincer's dad was, I just thought it was such a great conversation. Yeah. And again, like, you know, for all the discourse about sincere and all the judgments of his character and people like knowing who he is through the lens of a edited and highly produced TV show, seeing these people's families and knowing he comes from a family where someone's like, that's unacceptable, you can't be that way, I didn't raise you that way, I thought humanized sincere in the best possible way. And I just, I don't know, it's, not that I look forward to my daughters doing some fucked up shit that disappoints me, but I think part of being a parent is having that opportunity to really correct them at an

appropriate time and to know that they're going to fail and have an opportunity to have a heart to heart to them is something I honestly look forward to. So I was, I was envious of sincere's dad in that moment. But that's a strong argument. Maybe, maybe, maybe I'm just like a wholesome vote. That's a good pitch. Fun, fun vote. Wholesome vote. I think we have two Bryce's grandma. We have a producer and while we have a sincere dad. So that means the winner is. So the winner is Bryce's grandma. Honestly, if, if, if they had her rapping, it would have been unanimous. Wow. Right? Because I also love a rapping grandma.

Oh, that's good stuff. Yeah. Do we have Bryce's grandma? We do not have Bryce's grandma to accept this reward, but she is very honored to not only again be nominated, but to win this award. She's in the hideaway. She's watching fan cams, honestly. I bet. Yeah. I don't know. I'm guessing Bryce's grandma doesn't have a social media, but I do think there is a, I think there is an opportunity for Bryce to bring in grandma for some sort of social media campaign.

Or if she happens to be single, get her on. Get her on. Golden. Sunset. Sunset, La Lai. You know what? Bingo's very hot right now. A little Silver Lake Bingo with Bryce and grandma.

Come on. Yeah. She's a hot commodity right now. She is. She is. Okay. Gone too soon. Sean.

Oh, she. Beatrice. Soul. Gabrielle. The six Casa boys. Wow. What a sentimental soundtrack. You killed it.

And a real mournful voiceover. I did not. Nicely done, Zach. Wow. I'm going to go Sean. Sean's a strong one. Yeah. I think it's soul for me.

Yeah, me too. I would have said soul, but I don't know. I think soul. I'm not going to say soul because I think soul. while she seems lovely both just in life and as a human, but I think she's one of those maybe not meant for reality TV. Yeah, I get that. I think what I wanted for Soul was I just wanted to get to see her

outside of the sincere storyline just to get a little bit more. Yeah, I wanted more. But she, we got more Soul than Sean. And I don't really know. At least Soul had an opportunity for a connection. And she also had K.C. interested in. her and obviously there were some things going on but like she had options and then she kind of made her bed so to speak um and she seemed to kind of unwilling to like again sometimes you just

have to be willing to make some great TV to stick around but i don't think sean got that opportunity it's also you know the there was a challenge that was a little humiliating sort of just in general but then also again it's like it's super sloppy double there you got to get food on you you know so they're like putting a pie in her face and whatever which is also humiliating at any time especially when there's a camera in your face and lights on you i don't know i really i liked her um yeah she did kind of break down a little bit but when she was on screen i was always thinking no one has ever been this hot with diane weist's hairdo from uh parenthood yes it's crazy crazy hot crazy hot yeah and that it anyway i loved her i loved her i hope she has a thriving career after me too And I forget what the other ones were. I think she's going to be just fine. It was the six boys from Casa. Yeah.

So it's the six boys from Casa, Gabriel, Baya, Sean, Soul. Gabriel was startlingly hot. Yeah. But he did the most with his limited time. I do feel like we got, I think we got to know Gabriel in a way that we didn't get to know Sean. Yeah. He can leave without regrets. Yeah, right.

He left it all. In the six Casa boys, that doesn't include Carl? Like we, no. No. No. No. No. one because they did the 12 casa boys instead of the normal.

And then they just, I mean, I did think they took them out too early, but I'm not going to give them my vote. I thought, Jay, he is a straight man. Yeah, he was so hot. Yeah, he could have been a bombshell. Yeah. Like, just, he was so put together.

Yeah. Like, he really seemed like a hot commodity in a way that I, he would have been. Didn't have social media. Didn't have social media? Oh, that's right. He was the one with no social media that is appealing. According to him.

Uh-huh. Okay, yeah. Now, he was he, yeah, he too. was like he brought some representation to the to villa that we don't normally get to see right you know um so i would have liked to see more of him but sure he wasn't an o g so i'm gonna go sean yeah gabriel unfortunate tattoos i have to say um but incredibly hot but still my vote is soul so okay sean soul i said sean we're tiebreaker oh my god it's a tiebreaker zach will be our tiebreaker oh my god my vote was going to be Beah.

Oh my God. It's a natural tie. For the sake of breaking the tie, I agree with Nick that Sean, we just didn't get to see enough of. And I think he could have brought more, whereas I feel like we got a full soul story. Okay.

Yeah, I want to see the cop slash dad. I feel like he would have had the, you know, again, in some of these, as the season moved along, I think he would have been willing to speak up about things and not, you know, it's just so easy to fall in line. in the villa and just be a follower and I feel like Sean might have had opportunities

to not have been a follower in a very interesting way. Yeah, okay, so the winner is Sean, gone too soon. Sean too soon. Sean whiz with us a couple weeks ago in a very interesting interview and if you haven't listened to it, go ahead and check that out. So in a way he was here to accept this award, I will be sure to let him know in the DMs

that he won and I'm sure, like everyone else, is very honored to be recognized for his performance. But again, he's not getting anything. Just congrats, buddy. Two more categories, and they are related, you will see. Oh, boy. Most valuable Islander, male.

K.C. Zach. Sincere. Bryce. Corbin. Carl. Now, very tricky. Because, like, in sports, what is most valuable mean?

You can have offensive player in the year, but are you as valuable? Right. Mm-hmm. to your team. It may not be top performance. I hear you. I see where that's going to go. And yeah.

I know who you're going to pick. In this situation. Sincere. Yeah. Yeah. And he was really important to the arc of Melanie. I would have said Bryce, if not for the shirt he was wearing in that montage. Okay.

It's a rough shirt. I didn't mention it. I don't know. I'm going to have to go. Reality TV is very, very. In the chess gang is that. You know, I'm going to give him a pass because when it comes reality TV

reality TV stars get absolutely no grace when it comes to going out on the limb with their fashion detroit do you have a personal story is that

scarves yeah yeah that was the era right well no I mean I was in my scarf era and then I don't know I got everyone else to wear scarves 2016 right

what was the year and I was just wearing scarves and we got roasted for it it was all my fault and then on Caitlin's season bracelets What was the shoe store? V.SW?

Aldo. Oh, Alto? Alto. It was like a bunch of bracelets from Alto. I never watched The Bachelor before I got this job. And then when I was like, Nick's kind of like, like I'm intimidated by him. Like I got to like talk to him at work and stuff. And then I watched one scene of you in an infinity scarf in the Bachelorette.

And I was like, oh, he's a person. Oh, wow. It humanizes you. Wait, that's amazing. No, it like legit humanized. And I was like, oh, he's just like a guy at the end of the day. That's actually great. I love that.

Can't wait for my kids to watch. Will you let them? No, but that's not going to stop them. Okay. Yeah. On demand. Yeah. Streaming.

I found it interesting that Caleb was not nominated. And I find that interesting only because he is the one now with the most Instagram followers. No way. Does he really? Yeah. He's got like over a million since here's got $250,000. Caleb for whatever reason is like $1.23 million. I guess it was...

I don't get it. I mean, basically America was like, well, if you guys won't date him, we will. We will. He was handsome, but like I didn't get... Caleb is getting all his flowers and then something. He also didn't have enough time to become a villain. Huh. Yeah, he did die of hero.

I guess he did, yeah. Anyway. Very like James Dean. You know, who knows what we would have thought about James Dean. Exactly. You don't have enough time to find out. In what way? Memorialized as the king. Embarrassed himself.

So, Susie, who's your most valuable? Given the definition, I will vote sincere. Yeah, I'm going to go sincere as well. Okay. Well, you may not win America's hearts, sincere, but you won ours when it comes to most valuable. Congratulations to Sincere for Most Valuable Islander. Male. He was not here, is not here to accept his award, but is also very appreciative.

But he's beloved. He's beloved, at least in this studio. Big dog. And final category is, most valuable Islander. Female Anaya, Trinity, Keda, Melanie Kenzie. Strong group? Very strong group. Strong group.

The girls really gerald out this year. Yeah. It is honestly just what I will say about these women is every single one of you are the most valuable. Yeah. Melanie. Melanie, yeah. She gave us the most. She did.

She just, we were with her every step of the way. At least I was. I mean, she was the most vulnerable. She had to endure the most. She had the most arc. She showed us how easy it is to be a great friend and give great advice to your friend and how hard it is to take that advice for yourself. True.

I get it. And yeah, I don't know. She just like, she just was so relatable and so just awesome. So it took me a while to learn to love her again. I'm actually with you on that. And I saw my girlfriend, Imani, talking about it on her close friend story. And she's like, we kind of just brushed by the fact that like Melanie was dogging sincere for a while when she was making out with Caleb and him.

And she's like, I couldn't tell the difference. And we were like, you know you did that on purpose. And there were a few moments like when she was screaming when the bombshells would come in. And it was like almost to rub it in his face. But I will say when it comes to an arc, she did win me back over. Yeah. But I had a moment where I was like, I don't know, I don't know if I'm with you. But she was willing to be, we know who Melanie is.

She was put in so many situations. And that's just difficult. It's so difficult to do. And overall, I think she managed it really well where we got to see sides of her that like, yeah, exactly. But that's all of us. It's vulnerable. And then she overcame that in a way that many of us hope that we can in life.

So true. My most valuable Islander might be Anaya. I think it's Anaya. I was thinking, I was going to think Melanie, but I think it's Anaya just because of like, I think she also had like such, she had an art kind of like Melanies, but like it was really her having to like value. Instead of like she had to do the opposite thing Melanie did Where Melanie is like going to give her heart to a connection

That might not work out and like do the brave thing that way But Anaya had to do the brave thing of like Cut something off and have her worth you know And then have to like and then be giving it and be willing to take The second chance she was given and not waste it with Carl And then also just like have just be like so kind to Titi right and and KC when it's like I mean, Titi, obviously, like, I think Anaya knew that, like, Titi didn't do anything. And but still, she, like, chose to, like, she was very intentional about, like, making sure that she wasn't causing issues.

Yeah. Which I shouldn't have to do. So I thought that was cool. Yeah. I felt, I felt more empathy for Anaya during, during that moment. I felt like, oh, this woman's heart is actually broken. Yeah. Which is not, like, overly dramatizing it.

Totally. And she was the first person we saw, right? Yeah. Well, and, like, you know. She brought us through. To that point, Melanie got a lot of chances to see what was going on where at the time, Anaya didn't. She definitely, I don't think Casey was trying to play her, but he was leaving her in the dark about his feelings about how he wanted to move in a way that were sincere. It was just kind of all over the place where Casey was a little bit more intentional when he was talking to Anaya.

So I see what you're saying. Yeah. I could be swayed to move my vote to Anaya. because I think she's she is very dynamic and I think she yeah she kind of brought us through the villa but they're both valuable

you're sick with Melanie yeah well I'm you know I was gonna say if the Oscars is willing to do a tie vote I mean we do have that option that's true and I do like especially with women that's a powerful thing sometimes I think so too sisterhood sisterhood yeah yeah

honorable mention to to Keda for letting America know that there's New Hampshire. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. Brought them to

She's done. She's done a lot. For New Hampshire awareness. East Coast representation. Shout out. Shout out. Yeah. Shout out New.

Shout out Hampshire. Shout out. Do we want to give it to both of them? I do. I think we should. Yeah. Well, I hope you ladies are okay with sharing this very important and very sacred honor of most valuable female in Love Island.

Congratulations to Melanie and Anaya. MVs. Your winner of most valuable woman in the villa. Yeah. All right. What a roller coaster. Can I get also, we forgot about her, but when it came to a most important

non-participant, Carl's mom. Carl's mom. Just for like, gorgeous. I just, I want to, her aura, aura. Yeah. I aspire to have that aura be so obvious with such a, just a brief moment.

I mean, you could just look at her. Yeah. If I, if I'm running. like some kind of boardroom, I'm bringing her in, even if she has nothing to do with what's running the business just to like... Set the aura. You've seen the movie Aaron Brockovich? Yes.

Remember that scene where they bring in like some of the employees because they go sit down because the other side has a bunch of lawyers and they just have Aaron Brockovich? Like I would bring in Carl's mom. Okay. Because I think it would be very intimidating to sit across the table from someone that put together. Yeah. And she would read that shoe line down.

Yeah. That Julia Roberts did. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. She's goals. I think that will wrap it up for season 8's awards. Also, honorable mentioned to Trinity just because she's amazing and incredible and won. Yeah.

She doesn't need our awards because she doesn't need us. She won the winner. Her highlights that she put in her hair in the last, I was, I love for her. gorgeous. gorgeous. Yeah. Trinity is going to have quite the career. Yeah.

I think Trinity is going to win an unstoppable force. I'm excited to see what all these islanders do. but I think Trinity, she's got some A-list potential. Absolutely. And the ratings for this season were really good, right? Oh, yeah. Best ever. Yeah.

Yeah, it's only gotten bigger and bigger, so. The sky's the limit. Sky's the limit. Yeah, we're rooting for her. Absolutely. Well, Dave, thanks for coming by. Thank you. It's been super fun.

Come back more off. Don't go. Silver Lake bingo. Don't go so long without coming back. Oh, listen. I'm just down the street. I mean, we heard rumors that they were going to air Taylor-Frankie Paul's season, but it hasn't been announced.

I'm still rooting for it. I hope we see it. But if it does happen... What do you think is going to happen? Not to de-re-less... I've been saying that they're definitely going to air it and definitely air it. I will...

It seems as... It just... They can't seem to get out of the headlines... The headlines. ...in a way that they're just not giving enough a runway for people to just be like, yeah, sure, let's see it. That's my fear.

Yeah. I thought there was no way they weren't going to air it, but now that... Love Island is over and we haven't got any formal announcement. I'm just like, are we, are we losing that window? I don't know. So I'm less confident than I was a month ago. Yeah.

But then outside of that season, do you feel like they just wipe the slate clean and start again? I don't know. I think the whole franchise is an absolute mess right now. I think they're lacking leadership. Well, I got a casting DM saying, hey, we think you'd be great for show and I said funny you mentioned it. Are you serious? Yeah.

I got an email from my casting director. Yeah. Like I said, lack of leadership. Like they're just, what are they doing over there? They're reaching out to some of their most iconic personalities. Well, I don't know about that, but thank you. As someone who wasn't the lead, you really, you, you, you, you, you solidified your spot in, in Bachelination history.

Yeah, but. Yeah, I just, I don't know if you've, like, we've, I've, I've, I've made it my personal. Have you seen this book about Peter Weber or not about, well, yeah. I had, well, I saw that there is one. Yeah. Yeah. Really gross. But like the fact that the Warner Brothers is not doing anything about it, I find to be shocking and weird.

And it's just what, like, what are they doing over there? Right. Like, who's in charge? Like, why aren't they protecting their, why aren't they protecting their IP for, first of all? Yeah. And on the human side, why aren't they protecting? their contestants. And for, like, we've talked about it at nauseam already, you know,

but like for all the manipulation and producing and fuckery that they put us through, 99% of the time, it all generally works out. And even we can be put through things and be pissed off and it can be part of our trauma. But there's usually always a, you know what? I see the vision. I understood what I had to do. not perfect, that would have done it in a different way maybe, but like, I've survived it. And that comes down to, at the end of the day, they would protect us. They would have our best,

you know, which is, you know, it's a, it's a nuanced conversation, but they had our best interest in mind. But for them to allow this no-name kind of insignificant producer who had at the time a meaningful role as the lead producer and both Hannah-round and Peter's season to, exploit their cast people and write a book and monetize it in a way that's incredibly delusional I think just speaks to and again like the Taylor Frankie Paul outside of her personal you know mistakes and things she has to deal with they absolutely threw they did not set her up for success they did not protect their lead uh they you know they just they they they put her in situate like i was put in situations with a plan right you know now whether I agree with that plan or not, they had a plan. We're going to do this, but this is what's going to

happen. And you may not like it now, but you will appreciate it later. And they did none of that. They just said, well, we, you know, we're just, we got to make some TV. There is no plan. Yeah. We're just going to just, we're going to squeeze all the juice out of that lemon as much as we can. And I don't know, well, I guess we'll just figure out how it goes. And that is not how, you know, like the reason the Bachelor franchise was around, has been around for so long is because at the the day, they kept that in mind and they have stopped keeping that in mind. And unless they figure that out and unless they get better leadership or their leadership steps up their game, I just don't, they're just, they're going to keep fucking. You know, how, they're reaching out.

It's ridiculous. What the fuck is going on there? Crazy. I don't know. That's crazy. Yeah. It blew I was like, I mean, I was tickled. I was like, oh, still got it. No, Lord. We're here to serve and we're not done yet. We have Ava Dash from next gen, NYC, talking about her experience in the city. Pund with words. She's a wonderful person, an important part to her show, and she is up next. Wayfair, updating your home doesn't have to be overwhelming or expensive. Wayfair makes it easy to find pieces that fit your style and your budget.

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Growing businesses deal with the same problem. Too many tools, too much back and forth, and not enough time. O-Doo helps bring it all together. It's an all-in-one business management platform, fully integrated from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, so your team can spend less time. chasing information and focus on growth. Whether you're in retail, manufacturing, or service, O-D-U gives you one place to manage your business. Visit O-D-O-D-O-O-O-O-O-D-O-O-com. It's O-D-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-com. Eva, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me.

Well, very excited to have you. First off, I want to apologize for being the source of the drama that started this season. It certainly wasn't our intention, but yeah, so if it caused you any grief, we apologize. It's okay. I just really didn't expect it to like carry on so heavily into season two, but you know, we didn't have a reunion. So that was that was the moment. There you go. Is Teresa Judice following you on Instagram now? She is. Okay. And how did that play out? Did you have to request it or did it like one Tuesday morning you woke up and you got the notification? I met her at BravoCon and she was so sweet and she came up to me and was like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, please don't apologize.

I'm sorry that this is even a thing. Like, this was not my intention whatsoever. And, yeah, it was just water under the bridge, like, instantly. Great, great. And how are you in Gia these days? We're okay. She, like, recently did some more interviews saying some more unkind things, but which, like, kind of caught me off guard because we were in such a good place,

like, post-filming season two. And, like, we had gone to the Bahamas together, stayed with her family, like no cameras or anything. Like we have each other's locations. Like in my mind, we were like locked in and like so good. So I was very shocked. What were some of the things that were most upsetting that she said? Well, first of all, she called me nasty,

which is something I would never, ever call her. And like being that we were in such a good place, I was just very hurt and like taken aback by it. Yeah, I just, I don't speak out my friends like that. Yeah, that's a nasty is kind of a, Well, it's a nasty word. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I don't know. Yeah. Do you think, Ava, that some of this is kind of just a culture shock of you weren't really from reality TV versus some of your cast are like daughters and sons of housewives? Yeah, and have grown up in that world. Because I know you've appeared on Bravo, but in terms of like full-time cast. Yeah, I think maybe that's part of it because like I don't really care when like people I don't know have something negative to say about me. But when it's people that I know and like consider close to me, it does hurt my feelings. I don't know, I'm human and it just does.

So maybe it's just something I have to get used to. I don't know. But I also think you don't have to do that. It's how you choose to do your press and how you choose to, you know, talk about your cast or your friends. I think it's a choice. But yeah, I don't know. Do you think that there is a bit of like a Bravo alliance on, of like the kids of like housewives on next gen, like a bit of an alliance between them? I just think they've known each other longer than like the people who haven't been on Bravo.

So I just think there's more of like a deeper friendship. But I wouldn't say alliance. I don't think so anyway. Okay, cool. Or of a familiarity. Yeah, like they've grown up together. It's like a childhood friend, you know. So they definitely like have each other's backs.

So what do you think it is when it comes to Charlie? Because I know that you're kind of one of the more peacekeeper people in the situation. but it seems like most of the cast is kind of against Charlie, or icing him out at least. Yeah, I mean, I've also known him for so long, so I've seen, you know, the multiple sides to him. He's definitely not all bad. Nobody is.

And he's always been such a loyal and supportive friend to me. So I try to do the same, you know, for him. But I definitely see how he can come off as kind of abrasive to, you know, from first season. What are some of the softer sides of Charlie that we don't get to, see as fans and viewers. He's honestly, like, amazing at giving advice. He's, like, the first person I'll go to when I'm, like, crashing out, especially, like, over a guy or something.

And he gives, like, very just, like, even keel, like, logic, you know, type of reasoning. It's, like, less emotional, which is, like, sometimes what I need when I'm feeling very emotional. And, yeah, I just think he's just very loyal. And, like, he can be very sweet. He's very good with kids. My little brother is five. and absolutely loves him.

How do you kind of like reconcile those feelings with Charlie with like some of the other stuff that like obviously the audience would know about him with like, you know, the crypto stuff of it all? Or even just how he's kind of handled Georgia and Omar and that kind of stuff and her business idea. Like what's your take on all of that drama with him? Yeah, I mean all of that crypto stuff like obviously was like alleged. So I don't I don't know the whole story. he wasn't able to like fully talk about it and yeah that I mean that those headlines definitely caught everybody off guard nobody was expecting that whatsoever um and then with the Georgia I mean I knew that Charlie and Omar were like working on a club it was my understanding that

it was very different from her idea and her creative so I'm like watching the episodes now and I'm like huh I didn't realize she was like that upset about it I didn't know it wasn't my understanding Are you friends with Georgia? Because I know she was kind of giving blogger behavior in the recent episode. We, in the beginning of season two, I think she was probably like who I was closest to when we started filming. And honestly, I think she got in a relationship. And I've been guilty of this too where you just like are in that like honeymoon like bubble with your partner. And so we kind of like grew apart a little bit when she was like in a new relationship.

And I end up, you know, breaking up. from my ex so I was like single and like ready to like dive into more friendships and she was like kind of the opposite like in a relationship diving into her relationship so we kind of grew apart because of that but nothing like that happened am I crazy but was there rumors of you and Kyle cook having a a moment out there is there you're not crazy okay there have been there have been rumors are they are there truths of those rumors or is it just like two friends who just got you know popped in a picture that's maybe taken out of context. Well, to be fair, they said that we were like meaking out in public,

but there were no photos or anything like that. It was just rumors. But yeah, he and I have been, we're like in the same friend group now. So we like, I see him so many times throughout the week and we're always going out, same events. And I think we're all just having a fun single summer. It's kind of energy this summer. Would you accept?

a date invitation with Kyle if he were to ask you on a proper date? Yeah, why not? Okay. Why not? Yeah. Okay. So there was a same. We were having fun.

Yeah. As you said, by the way. I don't know. We have to paint it with such a negative rush, you know? Like, as Eva said. Fun single summer. Fun single summer. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. She is entitled. I'm curious switching things a little bit about, um, your relationship with Ariana and kind of where like do you this season so far we've seen a lot of her like her kind of having her single summer two and Hudson's issue with that and I'm just wondering like obviously you guys kind of have a complex relationship but what your what your kind of take on the way all of this has been going down is again in the beginning of season two her and I were just not

close I didn't know her very well I didn't know like the ins and outs of her relationship or like what was happening with her in Hudson at all. Throughout season two, we do get a lot closer. And so I like understand a lot more like what was going on and, you know, all the the drama and everything. But I, I think I handle my breakups a little bit differently. Like I don't stay in contact with any of my exes like that. Like I don't stay in the same friend group with them.

I like, you know, kind of remove myself. So when I'm single, I'm single. There's nothing my ex is going to say about. it, you know, it's just that's how I would proceed because for me that the other way would seem too hard. And do you think given the situation that they are in kind of in the same friend group, do you think like Hudson is valid in the way he's talking about Ariana or it's weird as hell? For me personally, I would not appreciate that as his ex.

I would say, you know, stay in your lane. And also, like, we were all more friends with her. Right. So it was just kind of like, okay, so now you're still in this friend group and now you're telling people what to do. And she clearly is like trying to distance herself from you. Now it's getting a little bit like too overprotective. And in my opinion, like crossing a boundary that I wouldn't appreciate.

What's your take on Liam joining the group and kind of his role there and like hanging out with Ariana and stuff? I think Liam's so great. I think he's so much fun. He has so many different things going on in his life. So he's like always has something to say that's like very entertaining and like kind of random. And I love that. And I think he was like just what Ariana needed at that moment.

Just like a fun, fresh new person. And also he's from the city. So like, you know, can show her around. She's still pretty new to the city. I thought that was like the perfect connection for her. What's been the biggest surprise or thing you didn't expect being a part? of a reality TV show like NextGen? I really had no idea just how much vulnerability it takes to be on reality TV,

and that's not something that's so easy for me. Like, season one, you can tell, like, I'm pretty closed off, and I'm not really, like, showing a lot of my personal self or, like, thoughts. So season two, I really tried to open up more and get closer with the group, and that helped me so much. Like, I feel so much more comfortable in front of the, camera and like within the group and my dynamics with everybody I'm like very happy I learned that from season one and hopefully I'll just be able to continue that what is something that you would say

you know about yourself that you don't feel like the audience has got to know yet or or or have you maybe seen any like commentary from fans that feel like they have a perception of you that you don't feel like is authentic to yourself I mean I know I have this like mean girl narrative and in my personal life, like, that's just never, ever been the case. I don't think any of my friends or people that have worked with me or anyone that knows me would describe me like that. And, like, when my friends are seeing comments about me where people are, like, saying that I mean, they're like, hello, like, they have the wrong girl.

Like, who are they talking about? So I think just, like, my personality is, I'm more chill. Like, I'm not going to be, like, the loudest in the room. And so I think it's a little bit harder to get to know my personality. when everybody else around me is, you know, so, like, has such a big personality. So I just hope that this season people will get to see that, you know, I like to have a good time. I might not be, like, so loud, but I think I'm funny, spontaneous, very, you know, I just, like, go with the flow. I'm not, like, doing tricks in front of the camera. It's just not me.

Do you feel like your quietness is sometimes misread as standoffish in a ways that you don't mean it to be? A thousand percent. Like as a kid, I was so shy. And I had to learn that like people take that as you're being mean or like you don't like them or something like that. And like truly it's it's not that. It's like I'm thinking about myself. You know, I like have my own insecurities or whatever going on inside of my head. And like I know I have this like resting bitch face. I think like as a New Yorker, you just have that because otherwise like people in the street will come up to you and talk to you if you're not like, you know, going where you need to go. So yeah, watching myself on season one, I'm definitely like, I understand why people say that about me because it kind of looks like nothing's happening inside my head. But there are. But yeah, I don't know. That's just how I've always been. Well, as an introvert with a unpleasant resting face, I relate. Yeah.

How did you feel about in this recent episode? I know Riley was kind of the one bringing it up, but they said that you kind of have this better than them kind of complex. And I know that's kind of that. We ended the scene with that and that's where you said that maybe Riley had drank too much. But do you, A, do you regret saying that maybe Riley drank too much? But B, do you agree with what they're bringing up? Or do you think it's kind of them painting you as this person? I just think I've never said that.

I don't believe that. So if that's coming across just because I'm more quiet, maybe that's something they need to, you know, look inward about. And Riley and I are so good. I think she was going through a lot personally when we were filming that. So I think that might have been why she had a couple extra drinks and like we've all been there. So her and I are very good and we're not holding any grudges. Riley and I get along so well though because we both are just like very direct.

We both like instantly will pick up the phone and call each other and like get whatever it is off of our chest. Some of the other girls on the cast don't necessarily do that. And so then things get like misconstrued or like someone will hold a grudge for so long. And then it gets like, you know, it blows out of proportion and it gets like messy, I guess. Yeah. How do you balance kind of your friendship with Riley with your friendship with Charlie? Because obviously like you and Riley like are both pretty direct and Riley obviously has her issues with Charlie. Well, that's the thing. Charlie is very direct too. We all have that in common. And we all can like move on from things. Like Riley's not still currently like mad at Charlie.

They've apologized. They've worked through it and she's moved on. So it's not something where like Riley's mad at me for being friends with Charlie. That's she wouldn't do that, you know? I was wondering like obviously this season, like you've talked about being more vulnerable this season. And I think it comes through a lot. And obviously you've been, your storyline has kind of been like you going out on your own. And, you know, a lot of what you were.

frustrated about with being called like a liar by Gio was like affecting like brand deals and stuff and I've just been wondering like how like what was that kind of like to open up about that on on camera and also just how's it going it's going well I didn't necessarily mean that like because she said that it equals I'm not going to get brand deals but I just mean that this whole like perception of me that I felt those people were trying to like push to the media and the press. I just didn't like it. I was like, as people that are my friends, I don't want to be called a mean girl. I don't want to be called a liar. I don't want to be told I'm, you know, X, Y, and Z. I want my friends to support me. I've, if you watch the confessionals, like,

I never say anything bad about any of my castmates. Even the ones that, like, when Gia called me a liar, the only thing I said in my confessional was, I'm not in the best place with Gia. That's all I said. Arianna is calling me a bitch. Gia is saying I'm not friends. Like they're, you know, they kind of pop off with how they speak about their friends, and that just wasn't something I was used to. So that's what I was trying to get across in my confessional, and I said, like, I just don't want to be called a liar.

It doesn't look good. Like, as somebody that's the public reputation matters for my job, like that, I just don't want that. That makes a lot of sense. And especially in this world and, like, Bravo world, there's, like, you know, narratives will catch fire. And they become, like, you know, it's like your online identity that,

for a lot of people will feel very inauthentic to who they are. And it sucks to try to convince an entire audience of something you're not that is a narrative that's being created by your peers. It sucks. And like to your point, Eva, it's like, it might not be like, oh, you know, it might not be like, oh, you called me a liar now like I'm going to lose a brand deal. But if over time that becomes your narrative and you got to spend all your energy fighting that narrative, it does have.

have an effect. And the reality is all, you know, you're all competing. Every, every reality TV star, every Bravo celebrity, you know, every influencer in some way, shape, or form is competing. You don't even know who you're competing against sometimes when an opportunity comes its way. And, you know, if they're picking between you and someone else and then, you know, many of these people who work for these companies that do brand deals are also fans, right? And they might be like, oh, well, you know, isn't she a mean? You know, they might have cashed. watched an episode, not really paying attention. They heard the ITM. Exactly. And like, you know, that someone's being, you know, called the name. So it, it does matter. So yeah, I totally feel for you.

And these, like, nasty headlines that come out on, like, page six or whatever, they're pushed to people who follow us. And it's, like, suggested for you. And, like, everyone ends up seeing it. And it's like, if that's, like, what you see and you just kind of think about it in your periphery don't care, it, like, internalizes and, like, fine if people who don't know me, want to talk about me like that, I can't control that. But like, people who do know me and like know my character, like, why are we, why are we doing this? I'm not doing that to you. Yeah. For the record, I've loved you on the show so far. Yeah, you've been awesome. Oh, thank you. Yeah, like towards the end, you know, in a couple more episodes, I haven't watched it all, obviously,

but from what I remember, I think you'll really get to see a softer side of me and just like more vulnerable. Because once I go through the breakup, it just really, all the girls kind of end up coming together in such like just such a nice way. It was very like girlhoodish you know and it just it really brought us all closer especially with Ariana and I like going through a similar thing at the same time. Yeah I think I hope anyway that everyone will enjoy watching that side of it.

I love that. Well we've certainly been enjoying watching you and just congratulations in general to the entire cast of NextGen. It's one of Bravo's better new shows out there. So more continued success. And we're excited to see how the rest plays out. And hopefully we'll have you on our TV screen for a long time. Thank you so much. That's so sweet.

Appreciate your time, Ava. Best of luck with everything. Good luck the rest of the way for this season. And one more question. What, if anything, do you want to address at the reunion? Or what are some unanswered questions you hope to get resolved, assuming there is one? Or another question, is there a reunion? Yeah.

So I've only watched three of the episodes so far, and we have a bunch. So I have an open notes tab of things I want to bring up. Okay. Good. Well, a different Bravo Lab gave me that advice, so I took it to heart, and I will be doing that. And, yeah, we are having a reunion. Oh, good. Eva, appreciate your time.

Thanks for taking the time, and best of luck the rest of the way. Thank you. All right, thank you, bye, guys. Take care. Thank you very much. Bye. Thanks for listening. We'll be back on Friday, not Thursday, but you'll know why we had to wait, and you'll be glad that you waited, and we'll see you back on Friday. Bye-bye.