The Viall Files - E1158 - Love Island Historian's Honest Opinion On Season 8

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Anna Peele, author of Enter The Villa, IS BACK to put a final bow on Love Island Season 8, from the online backlash against Zach and Kayda, to Melanie and Sincere's post-villa future, Brinity's best shot at lasting, and how fame changes everything once islanders get their phones back. Plus, Anna gives behind-the-scenes insight into Love Island production, Beyond the Villa, the pressures of reality TV fame, and who could actually make sense as the next Bachelor. You won't want to miss it :)   "The one thing they can't control is who the audience responds to." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/   Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter   To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep: Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for 27% Off Sitewide, exclusive for listeners of the show. Jones Road Beauty: For a limited time our listeners are getting a FREE full sized Mascara on their first purchase when they go to https://jonesroadbeauty.com and use code VIALL at checkout.  Ollie: Head to https://ollie.com/viall, tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 70% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! David Protein: Head to Walmart today to try a bar or stock up on 4CTs of your favorite flavors, like Blueberry Pie and Salted Peanut Butter. Check out https://walmart.com to find a store near you! 3 Day Blinds: Head to https://3dayblinds.com/viall for their buy one get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, and drapery.  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:07 - Anna Joins 01:33:08 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall  @susiecevans     @peelebanana @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

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There's a showroom in your area where you can get underdublishings. Ready to get started, visit night and day decor.com or call 1-647-692.8602. That's night and day decor.com. Good on, everybody. welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vau files reality recap edition i'm your host nick and boy do we have a fantastic episode for you we weren't even sure if we're going to have an episode today we were thinking about maybe we'll have it tomorrow because of our special guest tomorrow which is zach by the way zack from love island super excited to have Zach not excited that he's getting all this kind of

unnecessary hate and just it's past the point of like you know critiquing him on the show but i think what I love about what we do here on the show and I think what we do best is humanizing reality TV people beyond the characters that they play. And Zach as someone, probably more than anyone right now, I am most interested in getting another person because people have such a kind of a warped sense of who he is and snap judgments about moments that we saw and how we, as fans, like, define their character based off these glimpse of what we see. So super excited to have Zach in the studio tomorrow. Really just excited to not only hear about his experience on Love Island, and get a maybe a little preview on what his relationship with Keda might look like post-villa,

but really just get to know the person and in an effort to understand him better. And hopefully you guys to understand him better to just maybe just get, you know, again, humanize him in a way that maybe we didn't get to see on the villa. So super excited about that. But today's episode, we have none other than Anna Pio. We had Anna to kick off the season of Love Island. She is the author of Enter the Villa. She is outside of anyone who's produced or worked on the show or been on the show,

probably the foremost expert of Love Island. I don't know how long she took to write a book, but over a great deal of time. She went to the villa. She's talked with executive producers, both past, present cast members, this, how everything works. She did a full deep dive about the whole Love Island universe and the history of the show. It's an incredibly informative book, and if you have any interest about how these shows are made or how they work, she covers every topic.

And she is our guest today to continue to break down and analyze everything that is. is Love Island. We also get into a little bit about the future of reality TV and the bachelor and have some fun with Anna. Before we do, don't forget that VioFiles Plus is ad-free and available to you all. So in addition to ad-free episodes, you get some great content like our reality recap deep dyes where we dive deep into all these topics of our favorite reality TV shows and get to some of the shows that we haven't talked to when, like, for example, weeks where Love Island kind of takes over the discourse on reality recap. We don't forget about those shows like in the city. Real Housewives of O.C. and things like that.

on reality recap deep dive. Also are a pop extra episodes where we talk about your favorite pop culture topics and your update specials. All your favorite updates from your favorite Ask Nick Calls. And Justin and Mary takeover

we get into some pretty silly topics. A little hangout, a little takeover. A little hangout chill session. A little Gen Z. So check it out. Go to biofiles.com to do that. I think that covers it. Let's get to Anna.

And don't forget, tomorrow, Zach. Anna, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to have you. I feel like we're putting a really nice bow on this season of Love Island. We began this journey together and now we're ending it. There's so much Love Island stuff to get into, but I'm not happy Love Island is done,

but it really does consume you. And I feel like we've been missing out on so many like other reality TV. Like there's so much messiness going on. There's so much messiness going on, I feel like on social media, but I feel like in terms of shows that are airing, like Love Island I was living for. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any part of you that's, like, happy to have the rest of your life back, though?

Well, no, because I'm still watching Love Island, UK. Oh, you're still locked in for two weeks, right? Yes. It's got two weeks left? Mm-hmm. Are you watching it live? Well, it airs, like, two days later in America than it does in the UK. So I can't vote, which makes me sad.

But it's, like, it's just such a different pace. It's almost like a completely different show. I've seen a lot of people say that they don't like UK the season that it's really boring. How do you feel? I love it because it's like you get to know them so well. And there are like really big good characters. I feel like if you watched you would get into it. And like just the slang and the accents.

And I just like love all of it. The banter. I was served like clips of like old Love Island UK from back in the day. And boy, that was. Ranchi. I was thinking about it the other day of just how Love Island became so big. And I was like, when was the first time I heard about Love Island? Well, I used to.

And I remember. I remember, when I was in like middle school high school, Love Island UK was like the like slutty show that we, that like we would kind of like watch clips of on our phones or whatever. And I just like never gotten into it. But people have been like obsessed with UK for like a really long time. When they stop being allowed to smoke on TV, it like the person who was running the show was like, it just ruined everything for us because people would just be like puffing SIGs and bitching about each other and then they could only go out one at a time with a producer to do it. And they're like, oh, that was like, it like made them forget the cameras even more.

The memes. The memes. Yeah. Just that. Bring it back. And I'm not for smoking, but bring it back. If they want to. Give them prop cigarettes.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. Give them just something. Give them something for the confessionals. They do vape too. Oh, they vape? And you're not allowed to start vaping once you're in the villa. but people will be like, I just want a moment to myself.

So they'll tell them beforehand, oh, yeah, I vape. But it's just so that they can have, like, a free time. That's actually smart. So they respect if you come in with a vice. You just can't create the vice. It's like servers. Like when you get, people take smoke breaks. I remember being a waiter and being like, I would love to just like step outside.

And they're like, no, you can't take a little break. And it's like, but smokers do it all the time because I don't smoke, I get punished. And I don't get a five minute break. That's how big tobacco gets you. Exactly. Well, we obviously have a lot of Love Island content to get into, and we want to discuss the why so much the Zach hate. Obviously, like, we talked about, you know, everyone on the show and, like,

other people, you know, we had critiques of the boy, but damn, it's like, it's getting into the point where, like, you know, Kada has deactivated her Instagram. And I hate that because this is the time, like, to make Kay while the sun shines, like, this is her moment to get her brand deals and start doing that stuff. I feel bad that it's kind of being like blotted out by this. I can only imagine the type of comments they're getting. I'm sure it's really, really nasty.

I just, what I've, what makes me so sad is because, again, I'm always reminded of that story. I've told a million times on this show where like five years after my time on The Bachelor, someone was like,

hey, Nick, can you unblock me? Oh. Um, sorry for calling you a nasty, this, this,

but in my defense, I was 12. Um, and it was, just like kind of a really like, you know what? It like it put things into perspective because in, and you talked about how so many of this audience is young. Yeah.

I was talking, we mentioned this yes, on Wednesday's episode, my booker has a teenage daughter and she, I was on the phone with her and she's like, I'm at the grocery store, I got to find this poppy drink. My daughter's like needs me to, you know, it's just like, it's very influential to the younger audience and they're very online and I don't think they have any chill. Well, they don't know. They've never been in relationships. And then they're seeing these people for like seven hours, sometimes more a week, depending on how long the episodes are. And they're developing these deep opinions, but they don't have the emotional intelligence and life experience to like have any context. I remember Jeremiah saying, you know, he was getting all this abuse and being called a gaslighter and all this stuff. And then he was like trying to defend himself. And he was looking and he's like, it's all little kids. It's. It's all little kids. It's. like they don't even know what gaslighting is. Yeah, it's a word they hear and then we'll just kind of put it on, you know,

whatever comments. But isn't that crazy though? Let's assume that like 90% of, of these really hateful comments that these Islanders are receiving are from people under 20 or under 18. And yet even us on the show are having conversations about like the sentiment online, but the sentiment online is driven by. a bunch of teenagers, but we don't really know who it is at the time. We're not going on these people's pages and investigating every nasty comment, but it's crazy just how much we respond

to all those comments. Well, we're responding to it, but I feel like we're also having our own conversation. I feel like where it gets messed up is where the comments themselves become a news story, and then it perpetuates this narrative, you know, like ace the scammer or whatever it winds up. But I feel like every season of Love Island has to have a villain. It's just kind of one of those things. Every reality, I mean, you don't have a good season of reality TV without a great villain. I mean, I still think Luke Parker from Hannah Brown's season was the reason why that, honestly, that season was so good. He allowed Hannah and other people to really shine and you just had so much hatred for him.

It just made it so good. Yeah. But aren't you so surprised that it's. Zach out of everybody, like that Casey came out of that hole, that sincere, I thought sincere was the villain of the season. I'm just baffled that it's Zach. I feel like everything that Zach did that people are having an issue with, he kind of was honest about.

Like, I remember when Kada wanted to get intimate early in the season, he kind of kept pushing her away because he's like, well, I just don't want to do something and then have you think that I'm locked in. I think it's honestly plain old fashion like high school bowling. You know, I think Zach comes across as, and he even mentioned he's a late bloomer. He, in a charming way, he has like a nerdy side. And I feel like I think people think he's an easy target. You know, watching him, and I mentioned this the other episode, I remember when I was, I was vilified because I was strategic.

Like that was the big thing, you know, is he, am I insincere or am I there for the wrong reasons? because I, you know, I would think things through and I would talk out loud and I would just like, I had nothing to do but to just observe my surroundings and they always would ask you, what do you think's going to happen next? How do you think this is going to go?

And I'm like, well, I'll tell you if you ask me, you know? And then that's turned into, and I think when we're watching reality TV, it's just like fans don't want to see. They read, it reads as disingenuous sometimes by thinking forward or, you know, being illogical or analytical. And I think Zach is getting some of the, that a little bit. That's what Ariana said about why she would be a terrible islander.

She was like, I'm so in my head. Like, I'm analyzing every single interaction. And she's like, I think I would come across the way that Zach did. Yeah. Because if you do have a high EQ. And I remember you, another thing that people were like, that was kind of divisive for you is like you were just very honest. Like if you were on a group date and a date sucked and like you weren't getting one

on one time, you're like, this sucks. Yeah. That was definitely an Andy season. The client sees, I was like, I'm going to pretend. Definitely. I can do this differently this time. But I literally had to literally learn about, I had a second opportunity to be like, okay, that went wrong then. Do it differently this time.

And that's funny that they dogged you for being strategic. And then when you were actually being strategic, they're like, no, we like that better. Yeah, because I wasn't showing it. Yeah. It was interesting. I feel like people also just love a common enemy in the Internet. that group think, you know, psychological thing that happens when like it starts to take off. And then people who probably didn't even watch the show, but maybe saw clips or maybe they

don't even have context. And they're like, oh, cool, there's somebody we can bully online. Like, deactivating, getting his account deactivated on TikTok is so extreme. Like, the amount of people that had to have been reporting and also reporting for what? Like, because I'm sorry, but he's not posting anything inappropriate. So, like, to get banned, it's, that's, that's pretty bad. So I just think it's people love a common enemy. And it's almost like just trolling where it gets out of hand and then people who aren't even involved or know anything just start piling on. It's like not even real. The hate. Yeah. Well, yeah, people are followers too. You know, it's like people don't want to give a different take because like, oh, well, I guess I have to

hate Zach too because everyone does. It's like. And then it becomes funny because it's like there's somebody like since not to us but to those people because I'm like there's somebody who's I mean you know sincere we hope you have grown and we want to see you become a great he's unfollowing the ladies online I love that no your face tells me you don't but I love that made me I talk to a lot of a lot of ladies out there especially on our ass nick where like my boyfriend still follows the models you know type of stuff like it is something that not every guy um will will do in a relationship and, you know, at least he's... I will say, when I start dating a guy,

I take a little browse through the following. You want to check. I just want to check and see what the vibes are. And like, I really won't... I'm fine, as long as you're, like, respectful online, but I can get turned off real quick when I see somebody's just following hella IG models. And even just, like, this might sound bad,

but I'm like, but body types that are, like, so opposite of mine, I'm like, I'm, I'm, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not for you and I don't think you're for me based on this following list. So I kind of respect that he went through and did a little cleanup, you know? I'm proud of him. I just feel like what I wanted for Melanie was for her to treat herself the way she was treating her friends. And I wanted her to have the moment. And it would have been obviously an amazing dynamic finale because we got all these love stories. And so, you know. Yeah. One good breakup would have really... If she chose herself. Yeah. Like... But it's so impossible for her to do.

I know. Because she really seems like she was consistent with how she's just like, I just like this guy. I know. And we've all been there. And despite what her friends and the moments where people were like, uh, sincere, why do you doing? And they all kind of call them out. You could tell everyone liked sincere.

Everyone's friends with sincere. And they liked Melanie and sincere. together despite how he moved. And I think for her to have made that decision would have would have not been what she really wanted. And it would have been, I think, producer driven. And it would have been ultimately for, it would have been less for herself and more for the brands, so to speak. And I would rather her be comfortable. But if it was for her, like, if she could have found that in herself to be like right before the dinner where they all sit down and they find out who was voted in, imagine if she had just, like, truly for herself, not for the

brands, not for the, like, the image of like, I'm going to be a badass girl or whatever people try to go for on reality TV, but she was just like, you know what? I actually think I need to step away because I don't know what's, I don't even know if I really want this or if I just need to go back home and, like, observe and take a beat. Because I think when people are like, I had a moment where I was thinking about it. And I'm like, damn, like, she's faced with an impossible situation. There's no more bombshells for her to come in, for her to end the season. So she has to like step away from the final few episodes, which is a big sacrifice when you've like gone on the show and you have this opportunity to be in the finale. And she can either ride it out

with sincere or go home. And I'm like, that would have been so iconic to like say I'm good on like the final few episodes and like whatever fame or attention or clout or money comes from that. And I think actually would have been a bigger power move. I think but knowing how these shows work, I think the producers ultimately wanted, didn't want her to end the relationship. Do you think? Usually, and I don't know how it works specifically on Love Island, but honestly, there's probably a producer on Love Island

who used to work on the Bachelor franchise. There's a lot of overlap, and they're highly trained and highly experienced Bachelor producers. And so they get jobs in these other shows. But towards the end of these seasons, you are having conversations with producers. Again, they're the closest, thing you'll have to like a therapist, so to speak. And they are the people you trust because you

don't really have anyone there. And again, I don't know, you know, what kind of producing was happening at Casa Moore or what kind of producer's happened when they came back. But there is, there are conversations, right? And I think there was a comment. I forgot who it was, but one of the, I think Casa Girls was responding to a fan and basically said a producer made me do this or something like that, right? Which again, a person can't make you do anything. They can certainly influence you. But no doubt Melanie was having conversations with producers about her concerns, about the things that she heard. And in that moment, a producer has a lot of power. They can either say something to the effect of like, it either goes one or two ways. They either validate, you know, the hate

sincere getting and then criticism, or they could easily say and often do, listen, these people don't know the situation you're in. They don't know the environment and that you met. You know, it's not, they could have, they could have softened what sincere did and almost not necessarily, like, let them know that we, we manipulated sincere into doing this, but they could kind of, you know what I'm saying, lightly suggests that like, this isn't the real world and you should give him a shot. Or they could have easily been like, hey, listen, yeah, he, do you really want to be treated this way? They, they have a lot of influence in that situation. So for her to not break up with sincere, I think the, if they really wanted her to, I bet they could have convinced her. I don't know because if what her mom and sister said to her did not convince her to break up with him, then I don't know how a producer could. I don't know. But I, well, I saw, as a new parent, I get a lot of new, new, like, parent TikTok stuff,

and now he will send me things. And I saw one where it was basically, it just talked about the importance of who your kids' friends are. because at a certain stage in life, you know, like, as they get to like seven, eight, nine, ten teenage years, they're not going to listen to you, so to speak, right? But they will maybe listen to your friends or they might listen to your friend's parents

because, like, kids are just, it's, and they, you know, they talked about how, like, biologically, it's about, like, you know, kids need to kind of spread their wings and have their independence, and that's kind of how, as we grow up, that's what we do, we kind of distance ourselves from our parents.

So I guess what I'm saying, is thinking about that, sometimes, you know, like, I think we take for granted the criticism or the support from our family members because we know they're always going to be there. No matter what, I'm assuming it's safe to say that Melanie's mom and sister, if she chooses to stay with sincere, are going to, like, they're going to be by her side. They're not going to disown her or not talk to her. And if it doesn't go well, she will still have them, you know, and I think sometimes when we get those types of advice from the people closest to us, we don't always listen to them. And I think sometimes the out, like the producers in that world, if they are telling her and supporting that

relationship in that period of time, I bet she trusts them more than her parents. Well, what about trusting Anaya? Anaya said it to her and she, I feel like Melanie. Naya went back and forth though. I know. Yeah. It's just like Melanie wanted to hear the good stuff. She wanted to say the bad stuff and she was very vocal about, she's like, you keep making me look stupid. You keep saying you're going to change and then doing the same thing. But then she wanted her friends to back her up and support her. And that's what Anaya did. And Anaya was team sincere. And then when Anaya gave her bad news, she was like not about it. She couldn't hear it. But I wonder, with that, I remember that scene as Melanie kind of being like, you should have told me this then. But then she did

tell her and she just that. That's a fair point. Yeah. But I wonder if there is like a certain sense of a lot of these islanders to much like in the real world and the way that this is a social experiment, you're choosing the path of least resistance a lot of times in relationships rather than kind of doing the scary thing at times. And I think in Love Island, there is an option to choose yourself, but you're not going to think that you can do that. Just like the pressure like with you. Sure. I mean, like Kate and Zach. I mean, there's laid in the. season they were just like when they almost got kicked out when they were on the bottom vote they had a realization that maybe like america didn't fuck with them as much as they hoped or wanted or with some of the other couples and then they kind of had that well fuck it we have each other and that's easy to say there but i i'm sure when they got out of the villa and got on their phones there's a big difference between saying that and this feeling like it's just nothing but hatred in negative

comments and that's just a lot you know because they all went in you know they all went to go on a TV show and certainly I'm sure they wanted to find love but yeah they didn't come go on a show to get their phones back and just feel like everyone hates them and that is that is not some something anyone is equipped for yeah or you can prepare anyone for I hope they know how much they're loved because I'm like you we could have got them out of there yeah you know what I mean like they could have been sent home a couple of times probably I feel like with voting like they are loved you don't make the final four without having a strong fan base, but I know that the hate is louder than the love. I voted for them to be in the final four. Yeah. I don't know, just thinking about your experience

and how you had these two things where one, it was like the sort of like narrating the social environment and then the other was being really honest. And I'm thinking back to when Ace and Shelley found out that they were unpopular. And the way that they moved was like Ace, I feel like really tried to do less because he's like, oh, people think I'm manipulative. People think that. I'm like producing. So he really receded in response, which I think was his instinct. And then Zach and Kate did the opposite, which is they were really honest about how they were feeling, which was terrible. And they were upset. And like, these are all people who literally decided to enter a popularity contest.

Yeah. So like they, you obviously don't do that if you don't think that you're going to be liked in some way. And that's where it really, because I, I almost always say your most vulgarity. vulnerable moment is your best moment on Raleigh TV, except when you're talking about how you feel about how you're being perceived. Because that no matter, you know, and it's so understandable why they feel that way. And it's the most natural response. And it's the most honest response.

But it reads as that's all you care about. It reads and it's insincere. And that's not fair to them. Because anybody else would, like anybody, if you put a normal person in an environment like that and was like, hey, we're going to take a vote on who we like best. And you find out you're in the bottom. It doesn't matter. It feels like getting strong you are. It's just picked last for kickball. It's exactly like getting picked last for kickball. Yeah. Been there. Me too. I'm not athletic because I look. What kind of speaking of that, what do you think is different about this season? I know you were talking

about Zach and Kada and Shelley and Ace, but I know you were talking about themes last time. Do you think they went with a different overarching theme this season? To me, two things were happening. One is that just because last season was so immensely popular and the people who were on it did so well and it's so much money and are just so hugely famous that I think that everybody was very conscious of what they had to gain and what they had to lose in a way. I think they tried to combat it by like casting like normal people. And I know that everyone was saying like, oh, like, but they're all models. It's like they're not models. If they were working models, like, they'd be busy. They'd be Trinity wouldn't have time to work at the hardware store.

So it's like, yes, they're good looking enough to model, and I'm sure a lot of them will now. But that's not their job. They're not famous people. But to me, it really felt like it was about the love stories. Like, two of the couples were day one couples. One of the couple was a day two couple. That's very rare. And if you look at who it was last season, it was a bombshell and a Casa boy.

It was a relationship that was like three days old. Right. Like, yeah, Hood and Chris It was like they had just math. Yeah. Yeah. And broken up. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. They were broken up in the finale. And I think that that's going to be, make for A, a more interesting reunion and B, a more interesting potentially beyond the villa. Because there are natural friendships within this group. And I think that there are relationships that could actually last. Yeah. The best makeup routine makes you look like. yourself, but just a little bit polished. Jones Road Beauty simplifies your routine without sacrificing

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reading on them on TV? I mean, Bryce and Trinity, it's like for innumerable reasons, but like they both seem to really like each other. He's a little bit older and has also been in this world a little bit. Obviously he wasn't famous, famous, but he knows what it's like to be in the limelight a little

bit. Yeah, and he's got some famous friends. and he's been on some TV shows, you know, like he gets it. And I feel like he can help her. And what I love about those two is that they gave each other something. Like, she gave him confidence. Like the Bryce, because I called it so wrong at beginning the season, I was like, Bryce is too insecure. Like he's not meant for this.

And I don't think like they have chemistry, which at that point, I guess they didn't. But like, and then she said, oh, he helps me see things from a different perspective. and he just gives me so much more like insight into what's going on. And I just, I love that. A reassurance. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like it's also like, I think this sounds like a negative thing, but it's not.

I think it like, because the best indicator for like marriage working out is you both want to be married, right? And I feel like if your relationship is set up in a way where it's like beneficial to you two to work together, like you and Natalie work together, like you're a great partner. in life and in business. And so it's like if that's something that's part of your relationship and the infrastructure of your relationship, like that just makes everything so much easier. I mean, you're just if, yeah, you're a team. Yeah. It's like when decisions you have to make not only benefit you, but it benefit your partner,

it's just, it's easier. Yeah. And when you have to, when you, when you make a sacrifice, but it benefits the team, it's easier, you know. And like, look at like Nick and Alangria. Like, I remember, like, he got. a big opportunity early on and he was like I want a Landria to be part of it. Yeah and it's like she wasn't supposed to be but he brought her in and obviously she doesn't need anybody to do her

any favors now. She's doing incredible. But yeah, I think when it works professionally like it's just like one thing that makes it easier. Power couple vibes. Yeah. That would be like a challenge for Melanie and sincere because she is going to get a ton of opportunity. and him less so much and how do they balance that, you know? Because, I mean, that is always a chance, like Bachelor couples challenge. Like, it was a challenge

because when you're the lead, it's very different than when you're the, like, honestly, the winner of the Bachelor. It's the worst. It's the worst. You know, it's the worst. You're on an island and all your peers are like, they have one thing in common is we didn't,

like, we can all hate the lead. And we're going to pair. paradise. We're going to hang out all summer. We're going to do all the trips together. And everyone, and then everyone hates your boyfriend. Yeah. And it doesn't really talk to you as much. And you feel like an outsider. Like, honestly, winning The Bachelor kind of sucks. I really think it does. Like, even people who are in the best possible position, they're passed by for all the cool opportunities. Like, every cool, like, traders dancing with the stars, it always goes to the lead. And then the other person is like, okay, well, I'm not going to paradise. All the girls hate my boyfriend.

I'm not, nobody's picking me for anything. I'm kind of just like, fans, fans will literally hand you their phone to take a picture. Take a picture with your boyfriend. Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've been like, there's a cue line for people to meet the guys. Or if you're just out with the guys and I'm like, oh, okay, I was literally on the same show, but yeah, I got you.

That's great. That's very common on Love Island too, where like, usually it's the man has done something that the viewers don't like. Like they stepped out at Kasa in a way that, you know, they feel like was a breach or whatever it is. But I remember even in season two, the runners up, Sally and Johnny, he became kind of the villain of the season. She took him back. And then she was getting what were then big brand deals five figures, you know? And so they wound up breaking up because, like, he, she said that he was really resentful of her.

And she said that they had, their families got together during Christmas. And he was like, I'd like to give a speech. And he was like, I just want everyone to know that I've been asked to be on the challenge. And they only asked the most elite humans to be on it. And like he just had this mentality where people didn't like him and they liked her. And so he kind of had to prove himself. Yeah. And then also I talked to people where the person who did something wrong and who fans turned against,

they feel like they owe the other person something because the other person like forgave them. and so it's like, well, if I hadn't forgiven you, then, like, everybody in the country would hate you. And so, like, it really, like, carries out of the villa. It really does. And then when they have, like, just real world fights or disagreements, that's when that stuff will tend to come up. Yeah. And, yeah, it's, it's impossible to navigate. I mean, they all, even Bryce and Trinity, as much as they have all these things going for them, it's still an uphill battle, just given the president.

just given the pressures that they face. Because it's just, it's hard to know how you really feel. And I'll never forget my first time filming The Bachelorette. And I was, you know, I was halfway through the season. And I'm taught producers like, start talking about like, do you think you could like, you know, go the distance, so to speak? When I, you know, you first show up and you're just like, there's no way on it.

Like two weeks later, you're like, I really like her, you know. And they were just asking me about my feelings. And I just remembered having the self-awareness. of knowing that I A really liked her. I was like, I'm into this person. And I, and that feels real. And I know I'm also really competitive. And I know I'm being influenced,

but I just, I was aware of the two possibilities, but I couldn't figure out which one it was. And that's the thing. It's almost impossible to know what's kind of driving how you feel. I mean, think about it in the real world where you're, you know, we say that we're projecting all the time.

I mean, it is impossible for not for these people not to project all these different emotions and all the different pressures. And are they, do they feel this way because of something they read it in the comments a couple weeks ago? Is it some, some unresolved thing that happened in the villa? They haven't really talked about. I mean, these people are literally decompressing right now. I mean, they, and, and that's why I have so much empathy for Islanders, because unlike any other reality TV competition, you still have, you have, there's like two seasons. There's the, filming and then there's the airing and both are difficult but you have a moment in between to

get back to normal you're not no one that really knows who you are yet you can kind of decompress with your family you can talk things out you can maybe go get some therapy they got out of the villa got their phones and now they're dealing with just pen like just craziness and you know negativity and hate and it's it's it's i really feel for them it's really interesting because like you're saying that they're decompressing, you know, and that in other reality shows like The Bachelor, where there is so much time, like in between filming and airing, like, you can figure out, like, how do I feel about what just happened? And like you said, they're figuring out how they feel about what just happened while they're finding out what everyone else thought about

it. And then they're processing it in real time on podcasts. And so it's like, what are my actual feelings about this? And then, like, what, Yeah. How much it's projected on to me that I'm absorbing and regurgitating. Yeah. Like it, I feel like you could really easily get stuck in a narrative about yourself. And it's funny because the people who become villains, the ones and not real villains, but like villains on the show, like they, people told me who like in their season did become villains. They were like, it's harder for people who the villain label. label doesn't make sense to them. So like if you do something wrong and you see that in yourself, like, like, like, you said, like, oh, like I saw these negative parts of myself. And like,

I know that's just one part of myself, but I recognize that that's within me. But if it's something where maybe Zach is experiencing this, like it's like, that's not me. You're calling me this. You're seeing this and mean. I don't see that in myself. That can be really hard to deal with. Well, to be clear, it took me years to do that. You know what I'm saying? I didn't. I didn't. come out of the Bachelor franchise and get the, I was more like Zach. I was, you know, I was, I was more like, I'm, I'm the only one here who's like, normal. Not normal, but like, you know, on Andy's season, I was, it was a bunch of bros who just loved to drink. And a lot of it is, it's not that they weren't into her. They knew she wasn't into them, so they were just kind of

coasting. And I felt like I was one of the few people who was like, I just, I know I'm being crazy, but I really think I'm, I got, I got hooked, you know, type of thing. And so when I got out and then was made the villain, it was not easy for me to understand, you know, and it took a long time and some therapy and maturity to be like, yeah, I guess, I mean, because it's, you're not in a position to be objective at that point. You're in defense mode. You know, it's like fight or flight. So you want to defend your actions. No doubt, Zach is right now being like, no, I mean, that's not what I meant. And this is being taken. take out of context. It's hard to be level-headed. It wasn't until like five or six years later,

I was like, you know, now that the hate's gone and now that I've moved on and now that I really don't care and I'm in a different place. You unblock that 12-year-old. Yeah, I could be like, you know, that's, yeah, you know, like, I recognize that person type of thing. But that took a long time. And Zach's 26. I was 33 when I was first on it, you know? It's, it's impossible. I wonder if because the, like, metabolism of law of violent is so much. much faster than the bachelor, whether you can kind of reach some sort of objectivity faster. Do you see that in the people who you interview, like from Love Island versus Bachelor Nation people?

What do you mean? Like, do you feel like the Love Island people are able to kind of have a good perspective on what happened more quickly than Bachelor people? No. No. Hard for me to say I would say it's pretty difficult all the way around Yeah

I mean you still I mean your ex It's like there are people in Bachelor nation Years later who still can't let shit go You know I mean Caitlin's in popping off in the news And it's just like What's gone on Caitlin?

Jason got engaged Congratulations Jason Tartick They're so cute And I guess I don't know What did she say she's getting some heat or something I don't know what's going on So Jason Tartick got engaged And an episode that she was on of a podcast

from a month ago, released the same day. And she brings up that he has dated girls with similar names, Caitlin, her cat, and Catherine. And it was just, you know, a comment she made and people are taking it that she's shading him on his proposal day. But just the timing was bad. And she kind of came out and was like, guys, I'm happy for everyone.

I didn't mean for this to happen this way. So. Yeah. We've all told our stories. You know, it's been years. And I've certainly told plenty of stories. But at some point, you know, like I, when I talk, I try not to bring up the people I was on the show with. And when I do, I try not to say their names.

I'm married. I got kids. It's like, it's so far gone. And I think sometimes there are certain people who just can't stop talking about these relationships that are just years old. And because it's like their lived experience and it's their story. But like it's also like so many people have moved on. And it's just hard not to create drama. And it's like sometimes you're just like, why are you still talking about this shit?

You know, like. But what's crazy, though, is that I will say for some people, like, it still impacts their every day. Right. You know, like people who went through something five years ago or whatever, like, I give Clayton a lot of grace on that because I'm like, I saw what was happening in real time. It like literally was traumatic. Like I know that sounds dramatic, but I'm like.

Oh, no. His, I mean, God, his. I know. And I think about, like, even still, like, I was thinking about this other day. I was like, I don't think about that every day. And there was a point in my life where I thought, this is going to impact me for the rest of my life, whether I'm with Clayton or not. Like, I, like, I don't think I'll ever not be able to ruminate on the heaviness of watching him go through that. And myself being a part of it, too.

But I'm like, I have to imagine. And even all the crap that has happened to him post show, like, probably even somewhat targeted because he was The Bachelor. like it still impacts him like to this day I'm sure and I don't I don't keep up with him like that so I don't know but I'm like I can't imagine going like the trauma that follows that but I do think you pray that everybody at some point gets to a point where they're like at peace and can look back and recognize things and I think I know Clayton definitely looks back and it's like oh yeah that was a little oh that was tough or whatever you know we've had those conversations and me too but it's just wild how You can be like five years, even 10, how long has it been since you were first in the show? 10 years? 12 years. 12 years. Like, it's crazy that it still impacts people.

Do you feel like there is like a specific point of your life that's just like frozen in time because you were on TV? I've turned it into my business. I've turned it into my life. I've leaned in, so to speak. But in terms of, I feel grateful that in terms of like the trauma I've experienced, I don't find myself in my head at all ruminating about unanswered

questions or unresolved issues that you know I you know it took a couple years the year or two that followed I mean it was heavy yeah just constantly in your head about replaying situations like almost like redoing the whole season in your head how you would have done it differently shit like that you know you know I also feel free from it

but I don't know if you feel this way but I feel like I don't feel paused in time but I think for some people, I will always be what I was on TV. Oh, sure. I still get messages from people who will sometimes just pop off and say something really nasty or really kind, but it's like they, that's their impression. Somebody, I guess, heard me shout out if you're listening on this. And they're like, I went to your page to see you.

They were like, I don't know if it's just that you're aging. But you look so bad. And I was like, but I was like, thank you. But I was like, that's so funny because I'm like, it has literally been. five years and I'm like yeah like things are gonna look different you know but like I will always be to that person probably what they saw on the screen whether it was looks or emotions I am definitely frozen in time for a lot of people yes when people want to point that out whether it's like who you were or what you looked like it's like and it's so funny because I'm like oh like I don't even think

about it like that like I'm like obviously it's been five years like but it's funny because I think for some people you'll always be what they saw you as at that moment yeah and to bring it back to Love Island I just wonder these islanders like coming off of this show they still are that person in that weird way that we have this projection of

but they're also not they're barely that yeah I mean there's but you're still process it's like such a vulnerable state there's clearly so much more to Zach than what we learn

there's so much more to all these people yeah and we got such a glimpse of who they are and they're babies like I'm thinking if I went on Love Island now And in five years, I would hope that I would be like, oh my God. You know, I would hope that I'm a lot more like emotionally mature in five years than I am now because I want to keep growing.

So it's like weird. You're still the same person. Well, yeah, you're the same person. But don't you feel like they, I mean, unless you're the lead or whatever, but on Love Island, I feel like you see so much more of people just because you're spending so much more time. Like the cameras are on them for a lot more time But the audience is literally spending every single day with them And so like I think the image of them gets so fixed And then it's like yeah it's like people are growing up

And they're having kids and it's like And it's like oh yeah I saw you have sex on TV You know like it's just like And I think that that's the thing That Islanders don't realize like when they go in Because they have duty of care where they of course like explain to them You know You're not going to be Leah

Yeah, probably. But, you know, your life is going to change and here's what it's going to be like and we're going to have you talk to former Islanders so you can know what to expect and here's like what kind of representation you might have and here's the social media stuff. But they can't understand what it's like to be frozen in time for people forever. And like you two, I don't know, it's interesting that you did make it your career. But I feel like because it is your job, it's like I feel like we do get. get to see how much you've grown because you're talking about these things from your distant past,

but like with this evolved mature perspective over it. Yeah, that's so true. And I think I actually worry about a lot of people from Love Island for that reason because one, you are really young. And the decisions I made when I was 22 look way different than what I would make today. And it doesn't mean that they're like necessarily bad or anything like that. But it's like they're going to evolve and then this will forever be the impression that people have pretty much unless they go on maybe like on beyond the villa and have redemption arcs or different I don't know people might grow with them kind of like the valley or vanderpump where it's like years long and then people evolve and storylines and stuff but other than that it's like you're kind of you do get kind of

locked in without whatever reputation whether it's good or bad and whether it's right or wrong well what's really trippy is that it does It does, it just changes your life forever. Yeah. My manager had this great line. I mean, it just really landed with me, but like being famous on reality TV, it's a little different now for the Love Islanders

because now they're borderline A list right now. And I saw an interesting article with the Holly reporter about like the 10-day, just like mass chaos of agents and managers trying to sign these people, which is, you know, that's like the new normal. Like that, you know, even season six, I don't think they really anticipated

carrying as much as they do now. But even then, the shelf life of reality TV star is usually so short. And so my manager always say, like a reality TV star, the challenge they have is they're too famous to get a normal job and not famous enough to like make a living, most of us. And even if they make a ton of money right away, how many of them are financially responsible enough to know that like just, you know, half of that isn't yours. That goes to the government. You make some big purchases. You're not planning for the future. A bunch of money comes in right away.

You kind of think it's going to happen forever. These people are all friends, and now they're all competing. And they have to try to be friends while also competing for the same deals and same opportunities. And that's very tough to navigate. And it's very tough to not that bleed into your personal lives. And again, hard for you not to project, you know, your frustrations about how things are going for you. And then that's when you kind of relitigate things.

And you're like, oh, that wasn't fair. And that's when there's a round of podcast, you know, interviews that everyone's doing. They're all very trained up on like, you can't say this. You can't talk about this. Give it six to 12 months. When, when things start to separate, when, you know,

because like, for example, Orlando, a list. Yes. Chris was a finalist. Right. Have you heard from Chris? I've seen much about Chris. You know,

on beyond the villa, but like that experience very different. Hard. And so it's very hard to get to a point where you're like, I was for a period of time, one of the most talked about people in pop culture to, you know, what am I going to do for work? Well, he's an interesting one because he was already in a job that you can't do forever. He was hooping overseas. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

But it's like, it's like, so I think that he was in a transitional point in his life. So I'm like, I feel like he actually. weirdly does have an opportunity to kind of like. Yeah, maybe Chris is a bad example. I just mean like, yeah. It's a good example. It's just like, like for some of them, it's like they don't even have careers yet. It's like, you know, because they're like so young.

Yeah. And I don't know if any of them like we're planning on being like an accountant. Right. Yeah. But it's just like imagine going in for an interview. Yeah. Like, weren't you on Love Island? Yeah.

Like it's just how do you do that? You know? It is really weird to think about. Yeah. Especially Love Island because it's so sexualized because I think about that. as like from the bachelor perspective I worked for a year after still doing wedding videography

and I would go to weddings and it would be it was an interesting dynamic whether it was like the mother of the bride or whoever and you're like I swear like I'm dressed so I'm dressed as ugly as I can today I'm here to take pictures yeah I'm literally just here to do my job

but it is it is weird when I think about that where I'm like dang if I ever wanted to go back to a corporate job I would be in that office as like oh she that's just you're a bachelor you know what I mean and it would always be like a kind of looming over you and and then add in the sexualization of Love Island it's like oh like I've seen your your butt and everything you just have that pressure of like you have a sardine of giving up of giving up just like lottery ticket yeah that's what it is it's a lottery ticket with

great odds you know and some people are able to capitalize on it you know I don't think many people would have guessed that I'd be you know when I got off of Caitlin and Andy's season or my season that I would have been able to, you know, still be here. Well, you're living the dream. Like, you have, like, the best, like, case scenario for somebody who's gone through something like this. Yeah, it's tough to do. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just a lot of highs and lows and a lot of failures in between. I didn't start this show until three years after my time on the show. And in between that was a lot of trial and error and roller skating videos and shirtless painting videos and just, like, you're just trying to figure out your thing. You make a great pizza. I was just wondering about Beyond the Villa. Why do you think Beyond the Villa has yet to catch on in the same fervor that Love Island has?

Well, when I was talking to the casting team, they were trying to put together Beyond the Villa from season six. And they were like, it is like trying to book like A-lister's. It is so hard they couldn't get Rob, obviously. Like it was really hard to get Leah, you know, and to get them to commit to, not just participating, but like doing it for the amount of time that you really need to do it for a season. Yeah. Yeah. And it felt like last season was just like them doing what you were saying, which is just litigating both the things that happened on the show and in the fallout of the show.

Like, you weren't loyal enough. Like, and they're like, but I turned on a $20,000 brand deal. Like, because like it was with this person who was your ex or, you know, Iris lost followers. I believe after Beyond the Villa because they felt like she was being a mean girl. And I'm like, she's not a mean girl. She's just better friends with Hannah than somebody who was coming back from Casa more

on the show for two days. After this season of Beyond the Villa, if I'm one of the finalists, I'm not doing it. I'm not fine in that contract. What's the, where's the upside? Yeah. Well, if, well, that's why I was saying, I do think there is potential.

Although now that everyone's piling on Zach, I think that it lowers the chances. But if we had the dynamic of like Bryce, like, because Zach was saying, like, I want to move to L.A. Well, I'll just like move to L.A. It seems like a natural spinoff to have like Bryce, Trinity, Kada and Zach in L.A. But it can't be realligating love. No, right. It would be like them figuring out like what this new adventure is now that they're famous. Yeah. Yes. A hangout show. Which sounds fun. A hangout show. Exactly. And it's like, I think that they had a good chance of getting like the top people. But yeah, like now it. It's just like, okay, so I'm going to do it and I'm going to get abused online.

Like that doesn't seem worth. It seems like Beyond the Villa's audience is the younger side of the Love Island fan base. Which is already so young. I watched it because we covered it a little bit, you know, but it's not something that we're really into. And that's the thing. And all it is is like relitigating old drama. And then it's relitigating old drama. And then when they do get a star, they get an Amaya or they get like PPG.

it's like they're apart from the cast because they're so successful that they can no longer relate to each other so it's like we're watching a Maya buy a house and then we're watching like Coco eating like toast in a cafe with Chris I mean yeah it's interesting because I saw I don't think this is necessarily true

but I saw a really funny meme and it was it was sincere in Melanie at the finale and then right under it it was the ending shot of the graduate and I was a like yeah I mean that's what like I want to see as a viewer right I want to see the way these relationships kind of play out and elongate or dissolve in reality because that's like love island is such a specific place and beyond the villa is supposed to be beyond the villa but

when you're just arguing like you know if you're arguing on astro turf it still feels like you're in the villa so like I don't know put them in Silver Lake or some shit I don't know. I do think it is important to have like a, yeah, like it's like any show like Vanderpump or anything where there's a natural friend group. And that also makes me think about when I talked to Ariana, she was like when she was on Vanderpump, she didn't feel like she was making positive, proactive choices that were leading to building something for herself. Like you have. Like it's like she was just like people would throw her some small amount of money to do something or like, you know, co-writing a cocktail book. Exactly.

Exactly. It's just kind of like penny ante stuff. And because she was what, like the eighth bill person probably on Vanderpump. And so now she tells the Islanders it's like, don't just say yes to stuff because it's available. Like think about where you want to be in five years, what you want to build for yourself. So that because like NBC Universal is not going to take care of you in five years. You have to take care of you in five years. It's good advice. It's great advice. And I and I've told this story before. But when I, um, when I, first moved to LA and I had no income of small savings. I think I even might have told you the story a while back, but I was offered an opportunity to go on this new e-show. Like it was about reality, like reality TV villains or whatever. And I was fresh off of Caitlin season.

And I was the two-time runner-up, mostly the villain. So I was like their big target. I was like they really wanted me. And they offered me $60,000. And that was a shit ton of money for me. And I was living at my buddy's air mattress. I had no income.

I had like taken a leave of absence from my job. And I was like, I can't do it. If I would have done that, I would have never gone. I would have never been the bachelor. Yeah. Just never. Yeah. And so me saying no to that, like it would have changed my life forever.

I mean, I wouldn't be sitting here today. I wouldn't be married to Natalie. I wouldn't. It's crazy to think about how different your life would be by saying no to things and saying no to like a lot of money. But knowing that if it's like you have to ask yourself, what am I getting out of like Ariana said? What doors is it going to open up for me?

Or what doors could it close for me if I say yes to this? And I had at least the benefit of taking a leave of absence. And so in my mind, I was like, if I just need the money, I should just go back to work. Yeah. You know, so I can't just take it for the money. And I had the benefit of at least. some kind of like a backup plan so to speak but most people in these situations don't like you can't

say no to $60,000 like fuck you know it's so interesting that's like making me think about how like that's a moment where you had the sliding doors moment where you could have done it and you're like you wouldn't have the life that you have now when you're in the villa you're constantly doing these things and it's like the butterfly effect like it's like if you do something it can change the whole trajectory of your life and it can make you a villain or it can make you win the show, but you don't know what those moments are and you don't know until much later. And like sometimes it's like you don't even remember that they happen. Yeah.

Or how they're going to be used. Yeah. I think about that was Sean. That's the guy that was eliminated really early, right? The cop. Yeah, the cop. I think about that was Sean where I'm like, I think he was such a good catch in the villa. And I'm like, if he had stepped on the red and if he had gone and explored, like, what if he

ended up with Keda. And what if him and Kada were the two that made it all the way through to the end? And Zach's dynamic, everything could have been so different. But it's funny because he stayed loyal and Beah went and explored. And I'm like, it's just crazy. How in soul, it's crazy. It really is a butterfly effect where like one decision can change everything. If Casey said he liked dogs and not plants. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What could have happened. Yeah. And the producers talk about that all the time. They think about like if like especially when they're putting together the lineup. They're like, okay, should we save this person because it's, they're going to be a great bombshell like someone like Mora Higgins, you know, or do we want to put them in the opening lineup because then they can

form a connection that might be there the whole time. And so they're always wondering like, would this have happened if we had done it differently? The Casa boys this year. 12 Casa guys. Yeah. It's like that was potentially so many good either bombshells or original. cast or whatever and they put him in that position and it's like dang we didn't even get to know the six that went home yeah it makes you think of that one of the 12 bombshell casa boys that was there flash in the pair one day but then his ex-girlfriend went viral for being like this man said he was going to make money and then i see him on love island right like if he would have stayed that would have been the entire narrative for the rest of the season actually had a question about that for you

anna how does the cast do they constantly have people on standby i also heard about like a mock cast And there was even a man that posted about not going on the show at all. And he was just held for two months in Fiji. Like, how does the casting work in that way? So they have a mock week or a trial week where they basically will try out the cameras. They'll sort of see the vibe. You know, they'll see flaws in the villa. Like in season two, they shot it in Las Vegas because it was during COVID.

So they just took over this hotel. And they realized during mock week that their shoes were melting while they were standing there because they were standing on like AstroTurf. So they took everyone's shoes off and they put them in the pool so that they, you know, literally their shoes were turning to liquid. That's insane. So it's stuff like that. Very rarely do people make it off of Mock Week and onto the show. The season five winner Hannah actually was on Mock Week, but she's the only person who I'm aware of.

But yeah, they have the bombshells. A lot of times they'll have somebody who they thought was going to be in the opening lineup. And then they'll be like, now we're going to keep you and have you be a bombshell. But yeah, you can be waiting around for weeks. Well, they're never going to run out of islanders or bombshells. No. There's always not people. Yeah, they always have to bring in extras.

Can I ask you a question? Sure. So this season had so few bombshells, and it's like, I feel like if someone's just a CASA person, obviously you can still make it on Beyond the Villa, but like we don't get to know them enough where maybe it would be worth doing a whole interview with them. Has it been challenging because there was a smaller cast overall? In terms of what? In terms of just like having people to go to to interview.

This is a little inside baseball. I think it's, they're just handling press differently this year. Oh, really? How? Well, I think, well, season six, season, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't what it is. You got everyone. Well, we were like, I got into the show.

Nellie and I were like, we were up at the lake and I'm like, you know, I was like, I want to try to watch Love Island. Sierra was always been a big Love Island fan. She was trying to get us to watch it. And so I was like, this is great. And so we just reached out to Love Island. And I was like, I want to get these people on. And they were very grateful at the time for us to, like, promote the show.

They said, the executive producers said to me, thank God for Nick Fial. Wow. He said that you were part of the reason why season six, like, popped off. Yeah, I mean, we appreciate them saying that. But like, yeah, I mean, we, you know, our entire audience is they love this shit. They, we, they're the taste makers, you know, and we, we talk about so many shows. So when we latch on to something, season seven, they went into season seven just hoping that they could replicate the popularity of season six. Season eight, it's kind of like, all right, we got something here.

And, you know, with press and the audience being what it is, they're just like, they wanted to pull back a little bit. And so now they're just being a little bit more selective and a little more careful with their press. And they've even acknowledged they don't know if that's the right decision. Right. Because they're going to ask for forgiveness and not permission eventually. Yeah. Like, you know, people are in their DMs, you know, and stuff like that. So there's a lot of conversations behind the scenes about, you know, how they should go about this.

And I think they're still figuring this out. And again, they're trying to figure this out. Well, they're making decisions before the Islanders get off the village. and then, you know, then they have to deal with all the emotional fallout. I don't think producers imagine, for example, having to deal with the drama of sincere family doing lives, you know? Wild. You know, and it's like, I feel so bad for sincere in that moment because, like, I would hate, absolutely hate, to be judged by the opinion of my uncle or cousin. I mean, no disrespect to my extended family, but it's, and I have a lot of great cousins and uncles and aunts.

but like it's sometimes the cousins and the uncles and aunts who all of a sudden just show up and give me a little bit more attention and and uh you know latch on a little bit because they are related to the you know one of the most talked about people in america right now and i was like you don't speak for me you know like you don't you know and it's like what a fucking headache for sincere just whatever he did in the villa whatever you think of sincere he cannot in any way be judged by what his family is doing no or what they're saying or the variety of opinions of what they're saying. I mean, for all you know, it's like he hasn't talked to this family member in years.

Yeah. You know? Speaking of family day, how does family day work? Like, how do they determine which members go on? I mean, since Sears said, you know, his mom doesn't fly. It can be something like that. People can't get out of work. People are, you know, old.

It's a, it's really far. I think it's 22 hours to Fiji from many places in the United States. Like, it's just a long way. And so it's like a mix of who will they want, who's going to be good TV, you know. I imagine it's a lot like hometowns. Like right before, I don't know what was for you, but like it's like the two weeks before hometowns producers will like pull you aside and be like, hey, so hometowns around the corner. Don't know if you're going to make it.

But if you do, who would you like? I felt like I was actually in control of that. They wanted to know who I really wanted. they wanted to know who I should reach out to, any concerns, yada, yada, yada. And they do, I don't know how it was for Love Island, but like you could tell by the time hometowns happened, even though like there might have been six or seven guys left,

they knew what four were going to make it. You know, on my season of The Bachelor, we knew who the final four were in week, week three. Really? Yeah. But they don't on Love Island. No, that's a little harder. Yeah.

But I do feel like they're, you know what they're doing. Well, they definitely know what they're doing, but they also like, you know, he was the creative director of UK and now he has, he's an executive at ITV. And he was telling me, you know, like the public votes and it's usually bottom three. And like if one couple is just like has the least votes by far, we just dump them. But like we want to have flexibility and like who's actually going home. You know, like obviously Kenzie got the karaoke immunity crown or like, you know, like sometimes it's boys voting for girls or girls. running for boys or sometimes the couples don't talk to each other and they eliminate somebody.

So like I feel like they, but the one thing that they really can't control is just like who the audience responds to. They can, but they do have those levers. Yes. Like the immunity vote to just throw in there. But they like they wanted Ace to stay last time. They thought, like they loved Ace. They won't.

And America didn't. So it's like they can't control for that. Are they changing kind of the edit to manipulate America to kind of view? the islanders the way they want us to? I don't feel like it's, I know that there were some things about like at movie night

they switched the order of like some of the clips and there were some things like that like that's storytelling. Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just, yeah. It's creative. It's like a rose ceremony. Right.

It definitely is aired out of order. Yeah. And I think that, you know, they knew fans wanted Carl and I to have a happy ending the same way that they wanted Nick and O'Landri to have a happy ending so they both got like very gentle

romantic rom-com dates. Like, not dramatic. Yeah, and then you look at Zach and Kada's date. Maybe that's fun. I don't know. Like, I don't know what their interests are. Maybe she was like, oh, if a fan boat would be super fun.

How much did they get, are they completely surprised by these dates? Yes. Okay. With the cast? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So is production like...

I would say, other than their wardrobe. Because I bet you, I bet you the producer comes in and is like, wear a swimsuit. or like it's going to be elegant so wear something nice because I feel like you can tell by their outfits but they can't I mean I don't know but I'm like I imagine they don't know what they're walking into no I mean they'll give them like little like hints you know also keep in mind like they're in Fiji or like when yeah like there's only so many date opportunities to come up with so they just come up with like some dates and it I guess to your point I don't fans are I think wildly

overacting to what who got what date and what it meant and like what the producer were trying to do. I think, again, it was more like, oh, everyone loves Carl and Nile. Let's make it a little bit more romantic. I don't think it was like a fuck you in any way to Kada and Zach. I don't think it was like even if subconsciously, like an interesting choice to put Zach and Kada in the least sort of romantic flowery situation when they weren't, they were exclusive but not boyfriend girlfriend.

But they were, yeah, they were, I guess to that point, they were, they were the most objective talking about the relationship in a way where it was like the way people date now, Zach and Kada were probably the most normal. And don't you feel like their relationship was based on like having fun together? Like it's like it wasn't so serious. Like I feel like Melanie and Sincere needed to reconnect. So like they had physical touch and like caring for each other through massage and they were, they had a joint activity where they had to create together and cook, you know.

So, and like, Zach and Kada just like goofing around and having sex and joking with each other. And then Carl and Naniah are, like, they seem like the most earnest people alive. They do. Yeah. And then Bryce and Trinity, yeah, like they had like the literal, like, heart on fire, you know? It's like, I'm curious whether he knew he was going to say, I love you and whether he told them he was going to. Yeah. That seemed like a really genuine.

Yes. So sweet. I lookie cried at both Anaya's one-on-one, whatever you want to call it, date, and Bryce and Trinity's like, not heavy crying, but like, and I cried for different reasons. Like, I cried for Anaya because I felt like she represents so many women who put their heart out there. They keep giving the guy the chance and they get a little burned, but maybe they're mature. Like, I feel like Anaya handled everything so maturely.

And when she didn't, she corrected it and apologized or whatever. but she like she deserves her happy ending and I feel like that's I more so was like emotional for her where I was like you deserve like a good love somebody who appreciates you and like whether or not they work out like that date was just so beautiful and I could tell it meant so much to them and then with Bryson Trinity I was just like this gives me hope for actual love you know giggling and kicking my yes but like what you said about like your vulnerable moments being your best moments or the hardest moments being your best moments like we cared about Anaya because we saw her like down. Yeah, like yelling and like you never chose me. Like I always chose you. That felt very wrongcom to me. But it's like, but like she was embarrassed.

Do you think the Zach and Kada kind of dynamic that the audience feels towards them specifically Zach is because of they are both like they're very communicative and would say their feelings. But to next point, it's like Zach is a bit more analytical. he's not going to have a big outburst of emotion that the audience is going to be able to like see themselves in necessarily. That's interesting. Yeah, I mean, I guess he was the only Brit. Like he's like, he's inherently foreign to us.

So yeah, maybe that is something. I hadn't thought about that. Yeah, I mean, I think if Zach would have crashed out in a way that. Like Bryce, for example, crying and causal. Sure. But like to your point, like Anaya, she, there was that moment where like Anaya,

I'm sure after that moment happened, I'm sure she felt embarrassed about how much she just let go. Like she wasn't thinking about him on a TV show. She wasn't like, she wasn't thinking about what she was saying. She was just simply reacting. And I think for someone like Zach, that's, A, just harder for him to do

because he's always in his head. And so, but if he would have just really just kind of given up and truly like, I remember like the final ceremony in Caitlin's season, I don't remember it. And I remember like it airing and being like, wow, I really handled that pretty well. You know, like, you know, but I just, it was, that was a moment where I just was truly spiraling.

And I couldn't believe what was happening and kind of like blacked out. And those are the moments that people really know that they're been, and then the audience will feel bad. They'll be like, oh, I guess we're kind of mean or whatever. And so unfortunately for Zach, he didn't let himself, you saw him pout a little bit. you saw him be frustrated and then, but you saw him and then they aired him thinking about his feelings, but that's not the same as an Anaya, just completely like letting go and just like letting us all into like really what her heart was feeling. And it just, that's what I mean like your most vulnerable moment is your best moment because that's when the only time the audience

is kind of like, maybe we should show the fuck out. I think you're totally right. And I really do think like British humor, UK humor is defensive humor. Like the producers say that all the time. It's like a totally different tone on UK and in US. And so like when he would say, I love you and be like, just kidding, you know, I think that there was something protective about the way that he was handling himself. And I think that's cultural. And so yeah, maybe that prevented him from. Yeah, I know. Maybe he grew up with a bunch of friends who like saying, I love you to your girlfriend. He got teased for, you know, you don't have no idea. Also, you was coming in with people having a pre, if they had watched last season, remembering Charlie, and then Charlie has like, either you like Charlie or you didn't like him. If Zach comes in, you weren't a huge fan of Charlie, automatically you're going to be like, no.

Or if you love Charlie, you're going to be like, but then you're also going to compare him to him. He's not Charlie. Yeah, so he kind of was set up a little bit in a way. It's a little bit of nepotism, and I think people. Be nice to the nepo babies. Like people hate nepo babies, and it's kind of like that where I think he might have had to. the target on his back. The Neppo Love Island hire. It kind of was like, okay, your brother was here so like you know what comes with this. And it's it's kind of like the eye roll of like,

oh, you think you're going to be famous or whatever. Like I do wonder if that put a little bit of a target on his back from the audience where they're like, oh, like it just, I can kind of, I feel like I kind of sense that, especially when he first was on like week one. And I feel like people were kind of like he was. He was just Charlie's brother. Yeah. And that's all he was. So maybe that played into the hatred. I remember us talking about that. Like, and, but I loved his sense of humor. I find him to be like a much warmer and, like, chattier and goofier guy than Charlie.

Charlie is what they call a brooder. And, like, Zach is a cheeky chappy. Oh. Like for the casting archetypes. So, yeah. True. Just very different. What's a brooder?

A brooder is a guy who's usually, it's like they're feeling deeply. They're feeling sexually, you know. And a lot of times they might do something subversive. Those are the guys, like, sincere is a brooder. Like, those are the guys who are going to, like, do what they feel. And that might be, like, hooking up with somebody who, like, they're, quote, unquote, not supposed to talk up with. Is Bryce a brooder? Bryce had a little broody time when he was in Casa.

But he's a cheeky chippy chippy too. What was Nick on the bachelor? Oh, my gosh. Well, you could be a little bit of a brooder, I feel like sometimes. I definitely, yeah, a little bit with my emotions. Yeah, that's good. Great TV. I have like three rapid fire questions if I could ask them to you.

How do they choose the music for Low Island? So the executive producer who passed away during the season was actually the music producer. So like it was a mix of getting these huge artists like Charlie XX and Chapel Rhone and like all this incredible stuff that's really hard to get the rights to. And then breaking new artists. He was a DJ. And he really loved, like, exposing the fans to new music. And, yeah, I was talking to people who, you know, got, like, the playlist ahead of the show, you know, and they were just, like, it was, like, my favorite thing. And he, by all accounts, was just, like, the most amazing guy.

And, like, he would always, like, cry when they would give speeches to the crew. And he was also, I remember the executive producer said, like, I'm so mad that, like, he would want to be, like, reading the sobriended. Reddit comments about this and like us texting each other and laughing about it. Like it's like I can't believe I don't have that. Oh, that's really sad. I know. That's very sad. I guess in that vein like how do they determine which challenges and things to do each season like we didn't see the baby challenge, the media challenge, the love declarations like how do they determine what to do what not to do? So they have just like a bunch of challenges that are ready to go. There are some stalwarts like obviously that we just,

know, we're always going to see hearts on fire, the heart rate challenge. And then they'll, like, invent new ones every year. There are always ones that are just very classic challenges that, like, I don't even know if they have names. It's just, like, basically, like, dare in a box. So it's like, one of the most popular storylines is I want to break it off with my couple and getting a new couple. And so they'll be like, we have to give them permission to explore. So it's, it'll be like, you know, kiss the Islander who you're most attracted to outside of your couple. So it'll just be like dares. But yeah, like, they just. have them in what they call the C-suite. It's, you know, just like the executives room and they just

have everything ready to go. Certainly there are set pieces, especially on U.S. that are just so elaborate that they have to be planned well in advance. Megan, the stallion, like that wasn't just like obviously with all the cake and everything like that. Or like when you have something like last years, hate to burst your bubble challenge, like the Maybelean Challenge, where we found out that America loved Amaya and did not like ACE. Those things are planned well in advance, especially if it's a sponsored thing. But then some things are just simple, you know,

like to do, you know, to have the letters to each other, you know, that like is easy to set up. They knew that that was obviously going to come before CASA. Casa always has a set date. That's, of course, the biggest challenge. But yeah, they kind of just read the room and they see what it needs. It's like after, you know, movie night, everyone was bummed out.

You know, so then they do karaoke. So it's like they always try and balance the tone so it's not like same, same. Yeah, speaking of movie night, actually, I just wasn't even a question, but how do they pick the clips for movie night? Do they kind of throughout the season mark things as this is a possible use? Or do they listen more to the fans? Is it a thematic thing as well? Do they have different themes each year for movie night?

I mean, the theme is what are the things that the Islanders did? that other islanders don't know that they did that's going to make everything kick off. Like it just like... My guess this movie night is pre-produced and like I know they're having them pick behind certain doors. Oh yeah.

No matter what, they know what they're playing. I think so. They used to have it, um, differently where like they'd ask them, you know, they'd make them,

like, how many seconds is the average male orgasm? You know, and then whoever like the women and men would be separate and then like whoever got it got to pick and it, they would have names, so it would be like... You knew what it was going to be about, kind of? It would be like insincere, you know?

But like now they're just... I should have used that. That would have been good. Well, no, because I feel like this, they were going to like, we know what we want to play. Yeah. So we're going to play it. And they knew that I think they...

I would think that the most important thing was you needed the sincere clips in the order that they went and you wouldn't want to leave it to chance that, like that's so true. Yeah. Because it was a build. Yeah. Sure was. Last question for me.

what does right out like finale day obviously happens they coordinate that all how does it look after everything's done like leaving the villa we got a lot of insight into it actually they made it very transparent this year but you know they basically sit you down with people from the comms team and they kind of walk you through your season and they're like okay like this popped off and became a meme and this was a big story and people didn't like it but now they kind of it blew over and it's fine your ex came out at this point and said this to, you know, this magazine or this tabloid or whatever. So they kind of walk you through kind of like what the vibe. Yes.

And then you get your phone back. And it's just like, like being shot with like a fire hose. But yeah, they give you like a couple days to just kind of like decompress before you get spit out into the world. And it's so jarring for them because they're going from being watched all. the time, but they forget, because they're in their bubble, to being watched all the time, and then they're so aware of all the eyes that are on them. And, like, people talk to me about, you know, just being filmed, like, in the grocery store. And they're like, it's weird because I was being filmed the whole time and it didn't bother me. It's like, but now I'm being

filmed and it feels like. Because, yeah, you didn't give your, they're, you know, you didn't sign a release for that. Of course not. But they also feel like this weird obligation to the fans because, like, like they're like, well, I'm here because of you. And then the fans feel this weird ownership over them because the same thing. You're here because of me. And they're also so young. And now things are happening. Like, again, the sincere family drama.

And I know there's a lot of things that they're every day is a new challenge. They wake up with a new challenge and new issues. So the things that they were, the information they were giving the islanders when they first got off drastically changes. And it's just a lot of putting out a bunch of fires. and I think that's the thing that they still haven't fully figured out how to do. Like this season was different than previous seasons because the past two seasons, the Islanders would get,

would be kicked off to dump from the villa, and they would do some press, and without their phone back, they might have gotten a heads up from production, but they weren't getting their phone back. This year, for whatever reason, they decided to give their phone back quickly. which created, you know, more messes, and then they go on lives and things like that. And I don't know why they made that decision.

I don't know what they think about that decision, but it seemed to have created a lot of messy situations. But I think there is a bit of damned if you do, damned if you don't, and there's no good way to try to... It's like one of those things. Obviously, I'm sure they're thrilled that the show is as big and as popular as it is, but it just creates a lot of headaches.

They go from the most cloistered, protected, controlled environment where the producers are like, time for you to put on sunscreen. Okay, the lights are going out. You're going to bed now to just like being out in the wild and they can't be protected. And like both from like what they're hearing and from what they might say. And so like it makes sense to me that press is being curtailed this year because like the stakes are so much higher. It's like I remember talking to Live Walker from season 6 and she was thinking about whether she wanted to go on the show and an executive producer was like

you know there are three things you can get out of Love Island love friendship or personal growth and like if you get two out of those three then you're winning at life and it's like but they were like you're not going to get any money like unless you win the show so like don't even like have that be a thought in your head and like now it's like you yeah like you said you

go from being, like, walking around at camp with your friends in bikinis to being an A-list celebrity, but you're totally unequipped to handle that. Trinity is going to go from having a job at Home Depot to Pataocally being invited to the Met Gallo next year. Yeah. Huh? You know? And that's just like, how do you process that?

How do you? Right. It's a lot. And it's so immediate, too. That's, yeah. Yeah. Because to your guys point about The Bachelor and just like the length of it, you have time to kind of process a little bit. With this, it's like you're off the, it's, you're on the Truman Show and then you're still in the Truman Show.

Yeah. Yeah. Where are you on the, should they air the Taylor Frankie Paul season or not? Or how do you feel about it? Where do you think the future of the Bachelor franchise is these days? I don't think that they can air it while she's still undergoing. Like she, you know, if somebody is like going in and out of rehab, they're still dealing with their custody situation. It's just like I feel like maybe if it were all resolved and she were definitely in a good place, it would be possible.

But I just, you, you know. It seems like every time they think they're in a good spot, something else happens. And that's why she's such a dynamic TV star and that's why they cast her in the first place. But like, how is that going to work for Disney to have somebody who like at any moment, like she could get back to. She's like, I can see her getting back together with Dakota. Like, you have no idea what she's going to do. There's, it's too many variables and they don't want that. I do know that some Bachelor producers are looking for work right now because it's not coming back until next year.

Damn. So who? In terms of at least production. Do you think that they'll do Bachelor next? I think so. Yeah. But how? Like, who?

Who? That's why I think they desperately are hoping to air to their Frankie's Paul season because, like, that's the blueprint has always been pulling someone from a previous season. Right. And that has worked so well from them. And the last time they tried to do something different was Matt James, who obviously was best friends with Tyler Cameron, kind of anomaly him being Tyler, like one of the most popular contestants of all time. You would have to find some kind of known public figure who was willing to put up with the bullshit of being the bachelor lead. And I've heard from past producers, I think they really struggled with Matt because he didn't. have like that season of prep.

You know, like you learn to be the lead. You're very much part of production in a lot of ways. And at least they would want them to be to understand that, you know, there's a balance of making TV and falling in love. And it's, you learn a lot being a contestant. So now that we have like this kind of crossover where we have Sierra doing dancing with the stars, we have more doing dancing with the stars. So that's like NBCU talent going and doing a Disney show.

what about someone like Carl Radke from Summerhouse where he's like a known quantity he's maybe producible he's single and I think people like want him to find out of you would have to get that would be a whole NBC Universal Disney right Warner Brothers fight yeah I also like I've also heard from Bachelor producers they like bringing in

someone already famous outside of being famous from the Bachelor is has been they don't really yeah also it's just very difficult I mean Can you imagine anyone who has a certain level of expectation of how they should be treated as a public figure or celebrity? You have to put up with so much fucking bullshit as a lead. You just do. And you need the lead to buy in to a certain level

to make the show that you do. And I think it would just be extraordinarily challenging for someone who comes in already with expectations about how they think they should be treated. or like how reality TV is made in Bravo, very different than how it's made on The Bachelor. Yeah. And I think there's just, it's, I think a potential production nightmare headache to handle something like that. I feel like one of their maybe better options for a guy lead would be an influencer dude who has a big following but doesn't make a lot of money.

Because I think, which I think is very common. Who is that person? I think it's common. I feel like because I feel like people like guys even on The Bachelor or The Bachelor They pop off. They get a big following. But like what are you selling to women? Like if you're not like women like women can sell to women and certain certain guys can sell to women. But a lot of dudes will come off the show and have large numbers but then have to go back to a corporate job because if they don't know how to sell a product like brands aren't going to pay them. So I think there are a lot of guys on social media who have a big following. But, maybe aren't pulling in a lot of cash. I think their best cast for Bachelor is a former athlete that's not a known person, like a baseball player or like a lot of football players have like identity crises because they wear helmets.

And if you're not the quarterback or like a star receiver, there's a lot of like, you know, I've met a handful of former athletes out in L.A. And there's definitely like a little bit of like identity crisis. of the attention some of their peers get that they don't. So someone who's like a former athlete who wants to be famous, who isn't really famous yet,

but has the appeal of a former athlete who it wasn't just like a someone who was like a walk on. Wait, Justin just sent in the best pitch. I love this. Jimmy Sotos. I'm so here for that. I would so watch a Jimmy season. Jimmy. I would.

I don't know how a bash. nation would feel about how... Do you want to be the matchler? You know, Jimmy? He was on perfect match. Off the charts. But he was like kind of untraditional perfect match. Yeah.

Jimmy also wasn't a professional. He was... College. He made a playing Europe, but that's not the same. They need someone who is like a star player but not a household name. Controversial. What about Caleb? Popping off on social.

Caleb. has been on a dating show, I think very coachable. Yeah. Cute. He is cute. He is young. He's young.

That's the thing. I don't know why I'm like, Southern people would get married younger. But I feel like he, I could see him open. Yeah, he would, honestly, if he was like a little older,

that would actually be pretty great. Yeah. Also, Kenzie would be the perfect next bachelor. Kenzie would be funny. Kenzie is definitely bachelor's material. Yes. Like, if any, I'm like, yeah. She was made to be the bachelor.

Do you know how many men would come in like doing splits or with French fries or with banana split? I can see the season and I can see the crazy dudes that they would pair up with her. And they would all be her type. Yeah. Yeah. And she would give all them a chance. But speaking of why it's so difficult to find people, their last golden bachelors are a perfect example. Oh, gosh.

It's just like they don't know how to, you know, he went out and did his own like sports podcast and said a bunch of shit that, you know, basically ruined the entire. season. I think that's the challenge they have with people. Who haven't done it. Not only who haven't done it, but like, I guess are harder to control because when you, you know, I became a known entity through the Bachelor franchise and they, all the producers had a lot of influence and power over me. And I really like went to them to be like, how should I do any of this? Right. And so they were able to like, and they did give me a lot of good advice and they did steer me in the right direction. But I was willing to take their

advice. And I think bringing in someone who is like, I don't need you to tell me how to do what I do. It's a huge challenge for them. What about he's in the zeitgeist? I think that I do think that he believes he's like a superstar, but I do think that he, like, it's very clear from how he moves on his show and in the surrounding press that he's also like amenable to like be. being told what to do and getting feedback, Kyle Cook. I mean, if you didn't call his ex-wife a bitch a bunch of times. Right. But would that almost not make a more interesting bachelor?

Because you know everything you're done. You can cast a messy, messy bachelorette. You can't cast. I was the most controversial bachelor they ever cast it. And in reality, I'm not that controversial. But like that's the limit that they're willing to go. I wasn't thinking. Yeah.

Anyone who's like passed out unconscious like in the bathroom on TV show? They want their bashers to just be grateful to be their humble and just like, you know, just a true gentleman. Well then that would not be. Yeah. Justin just sent in. Let me just read what Justin said. Dare I say we just bring in the big one. Sir Jesus Christ himself.

Dylan Ephron. Oh. Even though he literally in a relationship. He would be perfect. If Dylan wasn't in a relationship, he would. The dream. The dream. What other Zach?

I found out of the ABC family dancing with the star. What about brother? Is Robb Irwin? Robber Irwin? Is he in a relationship? I think he's in love. Oh. He might be.

He's a real catch. I thought he was single. Is he? I also would put him in the category of he doesn't need this shit. Yeah. Not that Dylan does. That's the number one thing that comes up. I think you could sell Dylan on the idea a little bit more than Robin.

Dylan has a wonderful partner and, you know, so we don't want to. Okay. No. Robert Irwin, according to the Google AI overview. No Robert Irwin is not married. But Dylan is the post of what you would have to find. Yes. Yeah. Who is single?

I think people say they want a Robert Irwin, but they actually don't. Like, and I mean that with the most sincere love in my heart for, I like briefly met him and backstage a dancing with the stars and I'm like the cutest, most precious, kindest, gentle person, but

probably like two precious kind and gentle to be The Bachelor. You want to know if there's like a secret freak behind closed doors? Yeah. Robert Irwin also is someone that like culture has grown up with since a child

and have such a relationship to his family. And we respect him so much that I think. There's got to be that mis- No, again, Dylan. He'd be great. We need someone who's like that. You have to find a different version of Dylan. Another former Disney Star is hot brother.

Different pitch. What if they took someone from Taylor season who we didn't get to see but they show us the clips of them? And they have been prepped. Maybe they're a former athlete as well. That honestly might end up what they do. And that's guarantee you not a winning.

Or because we don't know them. It's like I can watch clips. Release the clips. Oh my gosh. They're not going to care. What if they come up with a short list of people, right? Do kind of like interviews with all of them. Do like a normal casting process.

Narrow down their top like five. Leave it up to bachelor niche. Let us vote. But don't you feel like I feel like this comes up with Love Island all the time where it's like we think we want things. but I think the producers know better than we do what we want. 100%. No, here's an idea.

I think you just gave to me. They should air the casting process. Make it its own show. And then as they're casting, you can be like, no, that guy is an ex. People could call out real time. Yeah, it's not live. Fans are not included, but like it would be a way to like follow that story. I love that.

Interesting. And make it its own season of like finding the next bachelor. It's kind of what they're doing for, actually, that would actually be so smart because if they don't have somebody in the arsenal right now of like, okay, we can launch this person like as the Bachelor, do a season finding The Bachelor, kind of like what they're doing for Dancing with the Star is finding the next pro. I think that's like either it's out now or coming out

where they're like trying to figure out who's going to be the next pro dancer because people follow them and they are really invested. And then we will be invested in the Bachelor. There you go Warner Brothers ABC. Another idea. I think that's honestly. Justin has one last place. Wait, do you want a host?

Justin has one last pitch Noah Beck essentially the same as Taylor Frankie Paul Noah Beck Who is Noah Beck He was just on He's a TikTok star

He's on day watch Yeah I know But thanks Justin I like where your heads at Yeah Right ballpark I don't know if he's it

Any other things we haven't covered Before we let you go You can get my book Enter the Villa anywhere It's on Amazon It's at Barnes Noble It's at your local bookstore there's an amazing audiobook.

The narrator watched videos of all the UK islanders. So she's doing like imitations of them and their really specific regional accents. It's so much fun. Wait, that's amazing. So, and if you don't know what we're talking about, Anna wrote a book. We had her on the beginning of the season called Enter the Villa. She went behind the scenes, talked to executive cast members, both with the UK, USA. If you want like an oral history of your favorite reality TV show, this is the book.

that you are going to want to read. Anna, it's always great to have you on. Thank you so much. This is so much fun. Well, thanks for coming. Again, the book has Enter the Villa. As author is Anna Peel. She is our guest here today.

Be sure to get the book. Listen to the book. You will be glad that you did. Tomorrow we have Zach from Love Island to talk with us about his experience, talk about how he is doing. How is he processing this? I'm honestly really just excited

to get to know the person that is Zach. I feel like that's the thing that we really excel at at this show is to bring in reality TV stars and give you the audience an opportunity to know the person, not the character, and especially given all the discourse around Zach and all the kind of unnecessary hatred, I'm very excited to have Zach here on the couch and get to know the person. And I think we owe it to Zach to give him the opportunity to get to know him and not judge him for whatever it is that we are projecting onto him. So that's tomorrow. Don't miss it. Anna, as always, thanks.

Thank you, Nick. See you tomorrow. Bye-bye.