The Viall Files - E1163 - Nicolandria Breakup Drama, Kenny Talks Reunion Part 1, David & Casey From The Ultimatum

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  We're diving into the Nicolandria breakup, the performance of reality TV relationships, and the Love Island fandom fallout. Then Kenny Martin joins us to unpack the In The City reunion, Lindsay Hubbard, Whitney, Gavin, and why being the season's villain couple may not actually make sense. Plus, David and Casey from The Ultimatum stop by to talk about where they stand now, emotional growth, accountability, and their upcoming wedding.   "It was a last ditch effort to get as much money from this relationship as he could…" Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe   HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/   Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter   To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Spa Weekend: Book your escape and treat yourself to SPA WEEKEND. Only in theaters August 21st. Quince: Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. Chime: Join the millions who are already banking fee free with America's #1 Choice for Banking. Head to https://chime.com/viall. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes. Naturium: Give your skin the affordable, luxurious glow up it deserves. Go to https://naturium.com/viall for 10% off your first purchase today. Kalshi: Download the Kalshi app and use code VIALL to get up to $500 in bonus credits when you trade $25. Kalshi. Trade on anything. Zenni Optical: If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now is the time. Go to https://zenni.com/podcast and use code PODCAST15 for fifteen percent off your first order. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 00:13 - Household Headlines 59:01 - Kenny Joins 01:22:48 - Casey and David Join 01:36:18 - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall  @susiecevans     @kendonmartin @davidatkinson_1 @caseycdouglass @the_mare_bare @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

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I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household. We got Susie, we got Mary, we got Bailey. Hello. In the room. Now, he sends her love. She is missing you guys. She's doing great. She's doing good?

Yeah. Good. I know she posted that she wasn't feeling well. She wasn't feeling well. She's, you know, she's... She gave you lots of cred. She was like, Nick is making sure everyone is fed. She's a wonderful wife.

Yeah. But she's hanging in. You know, ups and downs is usually the case with any postpartum situation. But she's doing great. Tunes are doing great. Rivers took a big crap today. Really? Huge.

We love that for her. I'm sure she feels great. Yeah. She's always, like, when she has the poop, she like, rubs her tummy. Oh. It's always, like, stress. for like the young ones when they're when they're potty training but she's pretty potty trained

she's potty trained right yeah I mean she knows what's up she knows what's up she communicates her needs she does have you ever taught her this is my favorite thing to teach kids because I don't know if you would it's my favorite is to teach them to go uh oh stinky

I like that that's you should implement that love it and the amount of times at family gatherings that I've locked in to a little like second cousin and whatever have been like you should just go out to everything. It's like, uh-oh, stinky.

And then they do, it's awesome. It's gonna make people's day. That's like the nicest, cutest, cutest way to announce what just happened. You know? I also, like, now that I have three kids, which is crazy to say. That's crazy. Like, I, you know, I'm not, I'm not super into the newborn stage anymore. How's that?

It was fun the first time around when they're just sleeping. Well, it was fun when I had new nothing. thing different. It was like, this is my only kid. And, you know, I obviously love.

We know, we know you're being facetious. Yes, but like, but in your power rankings of stages of childhood. Yes, thank you.

Like the newborn is like, there's a great smell, but there's a lot of, and like, they're just little potatoes and you wrap them up and they sleep and they poop. And meanwhile,

like River at two and a half is this just riddled with personality and curious and wonder and confusion. And it's like, yeah. And, and like experiencing the world for the first time.

And bonding with people. It is so I can't wait for the twins to like, you know. Then you see their little toes and you're like, oh my gosh. Yes, the little toes are cute. The little toes. And they smell great. Wait, why do I want to cry? Ew.

Oh my gosh. Every time Iris wakes up. She's all together. And she's, are you okay? No, I know. I'm just thinking of babies. My baby fever. Every time Iris wakes up and she like,

Stretz, stretches. That is. That is really cute. The little baby stretches. Well, I'll take care of my family this week, and I was activated by the Nick and O'Andriah Saga. And I just need to talk about it. We haven't really talked about it.

We've loosely talked about it, but because of the fan base being what it is, like people have been scared to talk about it. And I feel like we are, like, the gig is up. The gig is up. The jig is up? For sure. Can I, really quick before we,

You've come around. You've come around. We'll get there, but really quick. The story has become more and more insane. And I just... It absolutely has been. And my feelings have changed lightly. Before we get into that, I need to talk to you guys about the cheating scandal that rocked my weekend.

Yes. So I obviously had plans to watch the WNBA All-Star game. As I... Do you think anyone, anyone listened to the show was wondering what you were excited about before you said WNBA? When I saw this, sent on my feed. I was like, you know what? When the WMBA and relationships connect

and Mary gets to talk about it on the Vial Files, she's... This is how I went. Mary was walking on water this morning. I literally like when this, when I saw Jimmy Soto's was getting in on it, I was like, oh, easy. We're in.

Okay, so here's basically what happened to you guys that don't know what's going on the WNBA. Okay. So, All-Star Game Weekend is happening this weekend. This is essentially like, for the WNBA, the Super Bowl, right? The finals game is great. That's good basketball.

Like, that's amazing basketball. But what All-Star weekend is is Super Bowl for mess, right? Because we don't actually care about the game. But there's a live stream. And when you say we? The fans. The community. Well, we care about the basketball, obviously.

But the All-Star game is not about the basketball. It's about all of them hanging out together. Wait, really? So the All-Star game they're barely planned. They're hungover as fuck. Like, they're getting drunk. Well, All-Star games are. Can I go?

Is it still going on? No, it's over now. It was in Chicago. I'm like that honestly sounds like my vibe. It's awesome. It's a bunch of women's basketball players going to the club, getting Liddy. And there's a live stream going on on Twitch by these two players, the stud buds, Natisha Hyman and Courtney Williams.

This is important. So basically, one of their best friends is this girl named Dijanke Karrington. Dijna Karrington, former defensive player of the year, incredible basketball player. Like, how to contact, like slapped out of her face and then still played. It's important that they're all really good at basketball. to. Nalissa Smith is fine at basketball. Well, they are professionals.

They, of course, they are good at best. Yes, but I think sometimes when the mess comes in, we forget that these are also incredible athletes, which is why it's awesome that they're still so messy. So basically what happened is this. Dishane Carrington was at Baylor with this girl, Nalissa Smith. They had an on and off again relationship all throughout college going into the WNBA, right? Eventually, hot.

Like, secretly whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. Very heated rivalry. They get to the W. And they're like, again, still on and off dating briefly for a period. Dijunay and Nalissa had broken up. They got back together. They then play on the Dallas wings together with Pagebeckers. And it's a nice little family unit.

People are liking it. Then, Nalissa gets traded to the aces. So no one really knows what's going on between the two of them. They seem still fine. Like Dijna is showing up to games when she's off because she got injured. She's in it like, Nalissa's jersey. Everyone's like, okay, our couple still stands. Then they break up.

And no one knows what happened, but Dijunay is being like sub-tweeting on, you know, Instagram threads, TikTok, whatever. So then the All-Star weekend happens. And it's also been rumored that Dijne Carrington is maybe now dating Jackie Young Olympian on the Las Vegas Aces, which is where Nalissa Smith now plays. So it is rumored that Dijna Carington is now dating her ex-girlfriend's teammate. Damn. So All-Star Weekend happens. They're all hanging out on the stud-bud stream. You see Dijunay and Jackie Young essentially, they're trying to keep it peasers.

but confirming that they're together. And then there's this party that the stud buds host, and somehow Nalissa Smith ends up at that party. Who else is at that party? Dijne Carrington, Jackie Young, the stud buds, Natisha Heidman and Courtney Williams, who else is at that party are allegedly the two girls who are also on the aces

that Nalissa Smith cheated on Dijne Carrington with. We know this as the public. Well, we didn't know this. It was kind of rumored, and then Dijunet Carrington gets on third. And she says this. She says, since motherfuckers want to be funny today, I'm going to be hilarious. Yes, Melissa cheated on me with Deja Kelly and I and many more.

And here's the thing, both Deja Kelly and Lee and I also play for the Aces with Melissa Smith and Jackie Young. So this would be like, if, like, what is a good sports analogy for this? This would be like if LeBron had dating like Kevin Durant and then they broke up and then Braun started running train through the fucking cabs or something. Like, are you, and that, are you kidding me? Honestly, it's crazy. And this leads me to a thought.

What's the lesson here, Mary? Don't run train through your fucking teammates. Yeah, don't be messy. Don't cheat. Does it affect their game? Does it affect the game? Certainly locker room morale. Locker room morale. Well, I mean, the aases, the thing about the aces is the aces are a dynasty.

The Aces have the best player in Asia Wilson, like superstar Asia Wilson on their team. Yeah. And Jackie Young is like not messy at all, doesn't talk. So it's so funny that Jackie Young is now getting into this. And the Aces are still pretty good. Like they're not as good as they were before when they were like, you know, back-to-back champions because of obviously a lack of maybe chemistry on court that they had before. Well, I was going to say there's anything like a little passion, you know, to get, I mean, if I know my man's

watching me play ball, I would make every three, and I've never shot a three in my life. But I feel like there's nothing like a little passion to get the things heated. But this leads me to think, is this the future of like, is this the next heated rivalry? Are we going to have like a fan fiction?

There are definitely some women's sports romances in development in the works. Consider me. Put me in. I think I would thrive in that environment. Like, I'll act I'll produce, I'll write, direct, whatever. Let's go.

So are people taking sides? I mean, it's pretty universally everyone's on Dijunay's side. Because they... She's the victim here. Nalissa's also just like kind of posting some TikToks now and everyone's like, all right. Has the person doing wrong acknowledged their wrongness? No, they have not. Who are you a fan of before the scandal?

Well, Dijunay, because Dijunay is like defensive player of the year. Loki was never been as good. But... Okay. Kind of like a good, like, solid, like bench player, whereas Dijunet is going to be, like, in your starting five. So she's more talented and has a better heart. Can we get her on?

Dijanay Carrington? I guess she's not that good at defense, though. You know, she wasn't... Off the court. Wow. Off the court, off the court, off the court. That was good. Anyway.

Can we talk about Nicalandria now? Yes, now we can talk about Nicala. People's passion. I just had to get that out. See, this is where the passion comes in, you guys. It's very passionate. Okay, Nick, tell us your thoughts. Before we get into Nicolandria, we do have a fantastic episode.

David and Casey from the ultimatum join us to unpack this ongoing messy and dark season of the ultimatum. And they seem to be a small bright spot in this otherwise very dark season. We also have Kenny. Kenny returns back to back. He was on last week, but then after watch of the reunion part one, I was DMing with Kenny. I was like, do you feel like you might have more to say after? part one? And he was like, indeed I do. Exactly. So we invited Kenny to come on and have him give us his thoughts on part one and preview

part two of Indy City Reunion, which I'm really excited to have him on and have some fun. Keep it light, you know? I'm really excited to have Kenny return. It's already a two-time vial file's, uh, and I'd not start this season thinking that Kenny would really step up. But we're excited to have Kenny on later this episode. All right, Nick and Alangelo. The story has gotten wild. Yeah. Yeah. And I've, you know, as someone who is fascinated by these topics, it is the essence of the show.

We love to break down these relationships that start on these very kind of bizarre and controlled and weird environments. And this is a relationship that like obviously started a year ago, if you want to even call it a relationship. And so many people didn't believe that this was an authentic. relationship because mostly because of how it started you know it started on love island and and then when people wanted to question it were just essentially bullied in gaslit into not being able to talk about it because their fan base was so intense but then they broke up and unfortunately you know it's like as we all know with any great performance you really have to stick the landing and unfortunately it seems like while Nick and Alandria really like their routine,

their performance throughout the past year was pretty solid. I mean, they even had people like me being like, you know what, maybe? Maybe. I still am not completely convinced that they weren't together. Well, to be honest. And I can understand that because the beauty and what they did in their relationship

was the vagueness of how they talked about it. You know, they basically co-opted current dating terms where like no one is able to like define relationships and everything is vague and what are we. And that was kind of like how they moved, right? And that was kind of the brilliance of their relationship because it was like, hey, we're taking things slow. And I thought all weekend, I know it's crazy, but this is what we do for the show.

I mean, I'm a home taking babies watching reality TV. I have nothing better. It occupied your mind. It occupied my mind. You know, I felt vindicated because it was just like, you know what, maybe this is, maybe they're actually dating. But over the weekend, more and more crazy things come out. The internet is finally like being like, come on, this is crazy.

Okay, so over the weekend, Nick finally addressed this relationship rumor and posted his statement, I guess, behind his paywall. Yes, right. Which, you know, listen, you have subscribers. If your fans are willing to pay for something, good for you. Yeah. That's not the problem. What did he write? He wrote to Nicolandria community.

The rumors are true. I didn't want to give people false hope, so I wanted to clear the air. We will continue to love each other in all caps, always. Always. It's a sensitive as well as private subject. Thank you for respecting our privacy.

So him doing this is proof that he is willing to monetize the relationship. Disagree. He knew it was going to get out. Let's be real. What does that have to do with him putting it behind a paywall. Well, technically, he just gave it to his subscribers.

They didn't have to pay for it, but he knew it was going to get out to people for free. It's not like he was putting it behind the paywall. So, so. Why not just post it? Why not just post it at that point? It was a last ditch effort to, again, get as much money from this relationship as he could. I don't necessarily view that as wrong. I don't view that.

That specific thing. Other things will get to that Nick is. done yes but that putting it behind a paywall like that's fine I guess well it's like get your bag I guess you know you know what I think that's not the point of course get your bag but what I'm saying it's just it's it's it's an acknowledgement that he is willing to monetize this relationship yeah for sure for something that we like constantly question and many of his fans would be would be like no that's not what they're in it for and it's him being like no I mean when you think about the optics as somebody, if it were me or if I were advising, I think if you're looking at the optics of it,

what I would have advised would be like, hey, if you're going to put out a statement of some sort, put it out publicly and then to your subscribers, give a little something more personal. You don't have to give any more tea, but just say, hey guys, like, I appreciate the support from the community because that way you give your subscribers a little something so they feel special because I think that's what that's there for. Actually, I know what they should have done, but we'll get into that. Give us a tea. What do you think? Well, assuming this was all kind of just nonsense, right?

And I have, I do have empathy for Nick and Alandria because, again, like, I want to approach this from, like, again, what I find so fascinating about everything we talk about is the kind of the psychology of this whole universe and how difficult it is to navigate fans and in your audience and the pressure people feel. Like, keep in mind that this whole relationship started on season seven Love Island, right? like where the, it was literally producer driven. Like the fans early on in the season found like just, just saw, even before that, the fans for whatever they saw, they saw a connection between Nick and O'Andrio. Yeah, the fan edits.

And it really took off. And then there was, obviously, Nick was dating Sierra. And it's even crazy about that. Unlike, he wasn't just like hanging out with Sierra. They were locked in, locked in. And in Love Island. in terms, that's, that is like, will you marry me? That is my Nicolandria hot take.

If she had never left, I don't think Nicolandria would have happened. I don't think so, I don't think so. But that's, I don't know if that's a hot take, but. But it did happen, right? And so, and then producers are like, hey, you know, so here's my theory of how this all happened.

Early on, the producers went to Nick and Elandria when they were like kicked off and said, hey, listen, America loves you. They're obsessed with you. And like, if you're Nick and Alandria, you're like, wow, really cool. I mean, like, we were friends

and we care about each other. And then if you remember on the season after that initial date, there was initially, it was like, they kind of pulled back a little bit. Which makes me feel like that was even more producer driven. Because from a producer standpoint, if you want to sell this relationship, it would seem really

authentic if immediately you put them on a date and they're just like, yeah, we're totally into each other. Keep in mind that like Nick was just like an episode before, like, locked in with another woman who, like, was removed from the cast. So, you know, and then, like, this is towards the end of the season. The season ends. And then at that point, Nick and Alandria had to make a choice. And I imagine it wasn't a choice that they made by themselves.

I imagine it was, they had producers in the air. It seems like Nick's family seems very involved in his life and the decisions he makes. And I was thinking about, we've talked a lot recently about. about the relationship between like reality TV producer and reality TV cast. And I thought of this analogy that it like really encapsulates like what that relationship and how us reality TV stars like see the relationship, especially when we're in it. I'm curious Susie what you think about this. Is that like it's like having a guardian angel, right?

Like we see them as our guardian angel like in Cinderella, you know, where like her fairy godmother has like even the ability to like make things appear out of thin air. Like the producers, like, have that power. They are in control of this world and this environment. And in any situation, if you are a main character or you're the lead or you're a finalist, you have at least one, sometimes two producers really guiding you through it. And that is a relationship that really you trust that person because you have really no other option. So these guard- I was going to say I literally called my first producer, my guardian angel.

and then I literally would tell me I was like he was like my guardian angel and I still think fondly of him for sure and a lot of these relationships are are positive and sometimes you know sometimes you might have two producers where you have the good angel and you have the dark angel

I 1,000% had that and I love her too there's a little bit of that you basically have the angel and devil on your shoulder so so Nick and Alangelo most likely were told by their guardian angels that like hey this is like you should you should explore this now when the season ended Nick and Alangria had a choice

to make and that was like what were they do now it would have been totally reasonable and normal for them to say you know what hell fuck i i i respect and love nick and i respect and love our landria we're deep friends and they what they should have said coming out of that season is to just say the obvious which is like hey listen like we have so much love and respect for each other and clearly the fans and they said some version of this you know like the fans some saw something in us that maybe we didn't even see. So it would be silly for us to not try, to not explore.

We are friends, but we're just going to see how it goes. But they went like a step further and like kind of like, even them, I think they were probably bullied by their own fan base to really kind of lean into this. And instead of just kind of slow rolling it, they really leaned into like the deepness in that it was more than just this kind of platonic relationship.

Right? And then they started doing these interviews that are now being popped up and people are seeing them. And they were forced to say, not forced, I don't know, they said some just things that made no sense, right? You know, there's an interview

with Nick and Alandria and they're emphasizing just how, like, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. We're only dating. And then again, that was the vagueness in which they were kind of hiding behind. Was that at the beginning? I think it was...

That was right when they were dumped and they'd only been together a week and a half. Whatever. Okay. Okay. That was that was then. setting the stage of... It was giving Zach and Kada, but they had been together

the whole... Dating, not boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah, but Zach and Kada, not to get, you know... Again, these are really challenges of young daters of like these labels that like people, what does boyfriend and girlfriend it mean? Yeah. And but it was just that they were so

like committed to be like, I just want you guys to know we are not boyfriend and girlfriend. And at the time it didn't seem... That wasn't the weirdest of interviews. There's a later interview where Alandria is talking about how Nick and her relationship started. And she is basically talking and acknowledging the relationship that Nick had with Sierra. And I'm paraphrasing. Or what, go ahead.

Yeah. Okay. So that is a bit also out of context. She basically was saying he watched me for weeks, learned what I like, matured within those few weeks, and became the man I needed him to be to make this thing work. What is that context? Watching it back now, I was like, dang, this man truly stuble. studied me until he was ready for me. This is where I think the fans probably got in her head

a lot because she's watching all the fan edits. He, he, you know, picked her for every challenge. He kissed her in secret on the first day. He saved her from multiple dumpings. But I can't possibly think that Arlandria, like outside of this bubble, would want that for herself and believe that's how a man fell for her. Maybe she romanticized. But either way, it made no logical sense. Go ahead. I wonder what, and this isn't, this isn't necessarily within like the reality TV context, but it is a really interesting dynamic, right? You come out of the villa.

You don't know how you feel about someone, right? You've had this insane experience with them. And obviously, like, to your point, you're told that everyone is obsessed with you. You come out and you see, y'all watch fan edits. Yeah. You could convince me. Like honestly Honest to God

Sometimes I'm a little high watching TikTok I see a fan at it Two random people And I'm like they're in love That's where I have empathy for them But at some point They do like

I get that but I couldn't And like I don't know What your guys's relationship with this Is having like been on reality TV With like your relationships in there But to have like To come out and see that And see this like edited

manipulative manipulative version of your... You know what I mean? It must be a huge mind fuck. Totally. Outside of even just being on the show. 100%. But, you know, while you can be lost in the sauce,

the more time you are removed from the actual like social experiment that you are a part of, like you, you know, you have your family and your friends who are, you know, who kind of bring you out of the delusion that is the social. experiment that you were a part of. Do you think that there's any part of them that was like over the course of this year,

like really trying to make it work? Yeah. Because I saw that, yeah. I feel like, What do you mean you saw that? I saw them sleeping over at each other's places. I saw them hanging out all the time with each other's friends. Bailey's an actual state.

I know. Yeah. No, well, at first, yes. I agree with you there. Highly curated at first. They were, they were manufactured to be with each other on the show. Highly encouraged. These are adult people who do have agency, especially.

outside of the villas. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think, I think, yeah, at first, for sure, it was a lot. And I think they were just kind of adjusting. And then, of course, they just started dating. And then they broke up. And, like, yeah.

So throughout this past year, you know, the average fan was just kind of like, whatever. But, like, many of their season seven castmates have spoken out and just been like, and just gave us some information that made us question whether these two, like, Ace was like early on was like Nick told me there was absolutely no What do you mean that that's Ace? Why are we disqualifying Ace? We're not disqualifying.

Whatever you think of Ace, Ace is he's a sharp person. And you might not like Ace or fuck with Ace or whatever, but I would be willing to bet nine times out of ten, Ace is probably right when he speaks on things, especially in the universe. That's your question. That's my opinion. But more specifically, is that like because Nick and O'Andreous fan base was so toxic and so activated, anyone.

who spoke up, especially the season seven season seven cast was bullied and like character assassinated. If you said anything that was just like, I don't know, like I'm just, the thing about this is this like that is the at the basis of reality TV

discourse. I mean, that is why we watch this shit because we want to question whether these relationships that start on these shows in these highly manufactured environments are real. That's the fun in it. The whole Bachelor franchise was propped up on premise other the question is, are you here for the right reasons? And this is a story,

one of the most popular couples to come out of a reality TV universe, you know, rightfully had some questions attached to it. And no one was allowed to like even talk about it for fear. So now that they have announced this breakup and it just looks odd. So things about the breakup that make no sense. The statement. What is in the statement? His statement or the only thing that Well, anything we've ever heard from the two is this, is that they have, they are emphasizing that they still deeply love each other and that their feelings haven't changed. Is it that different from any other breakup we've seen? Yes. How so?

They always say that. They're like, we wish you the best. We want different things. It's like, well, it's all good. But maybe, but there's usually more. And I understand that there's always like a piece of, how big given us much? I am just saying that like they're, they're,

they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, so why'd they break up? Well, it's just like we just,

they just, they said distance. Of course, yeah, but like, that was always the distance. So literally nothing changed. In fact,

I, I can imagine Nick at some point going on a podcast, like a buddy's podcast. And he's gonna, he's gonna say something that he wants to sound profound and it's gonna make no sense.

And he's gonna say something like, yeah, I just like, want you guys to know that like, just honestly, like, we still, we care about each other just as much. You can even argue that we,

I can, we care about each other even more now. It's just like, you know, and it's just like, the neck in front of it. It's such a vagueness, nothing changed, except that they just decided not to. And then there's the timing of it all. Also, I want to start, but also, not start because I'm like 15 minutes in.

What's crazy about this is that like, I think it needs to be acknowledged that this, this drama that we're talking about is so beneath where Alandri is in her career. I agree. Yeah. I think that's why she's not really talking. Hawkins. I agree.

I think regardless she's fine. I wouldn't say anything about this. I would move the fuck on. In fact, and they're all going to be fine. Their career is thriving.

But it is literally beneath where she's at in her career. It's beneath. Which means that like, so it and so the timing of it and the fact that it was a year, the year makes it feel like, because like a lot of people,

the crazy is on the other side, the critics will like conspiracy, we'll have a conspiracy that there's like some literal contract between the two of them. And there's no, contract. But the fact that they broke up a year later suggests that there was an agreement. And when you think about it, because if there was an agreement, a goal, that we'll just date for a

year. Because the year is such the obvious choice, right? That I think Alandria should have just left this thing so long ago. And now she has to deal with the people criticize. And people are activated because, again, they were criticized and judged. And, again, they were criticized and judged. for just wanting to have a silly discourse about a reality TV relationship they didn't totally buy. And now when the stuff coming out that's looking more and more bizarre,

they're just like, you know what? Screw this. I mean, and it just makes no sense that as you look back, again, like it was just so vague. Yeah. Like I don't think they'll ever even acknowledge it because they've,

other than taking some pictures together and having a, sleepover. There's no evidence. Multiple. Oh, okay. You can do that with friends. I wonder. Sure. The way that's called like a sleepover and the fact that they promoted a sleepover is just like, no, they didn't. They didn't. I'm saying like people just saw like his clothes in the background, him brushing his teeth, you know, just they, they were at each other's places. Here's my, yeah, I think here's my question. My big grand theory on this is I think they probably like, They have some chemistry.

What happens on Love Island happens. Obviously, you kind of be... Well, allegedly, according to A's, they didn't have chemistry. Okay. Well, I saw them in the beginning as well, so he switched up. And, hey, maybe I got a bad read on chemistry. That would actually make a lot of sense in my life. Anyway, they have some chemistry.

I'm sorry, that one... No, they were told the audience believes they have chemistry. Anyway, anyway, my theory is that they probably tried out dating. Sure. after the villa. Obviously everyone wants it. Your career is kind of writing it. They're like, all right, let's try this out.

We're friends. Like, we're going to be cool. Let's just communicate. Like, see what happens? If we like it, we like it. If we don't, we don't. They kind of start doesn't really, maybe it doesn't really work out. Maybe they try longer than they don't.

Maybe they're kind of like pretending to themselves as much as they are to everyone else. And then they get to a point, here's my thing. Before you say anything, I think they probably got to a point maybe around, let's say, six months ago where they were like, this isn't going to work out. But you know what? I bet if we wait to kind of like publicly break up until the new season of Love Island air is when people start obsessing over these other couples,

we can maybe have a little easier time getting out of this. That's what I think happened. I think they waited out. And then how do you explain or justify, fine, if they did that, them allowing their fan base. Again, like it's one thing to let this happen, but they had a front row seat to see how their audience and their fans were going after.

anyone who spoke on this, including their castmates. And at some level, in some situations, it got really dark and dangerous. And they just kind of let it happen. And so they're meaning- They don't have control over that, though. To your point, though, do you think they were- I'm not saying they have total control, but they seem to, they seem to hide behind it.

They did not acknowledge it. That's for sure. They definitely did acknowledge it. And at times it got really, really bad. Do you think that there is a world in which, and I'm not, I'm not, this is just a question. I'm not saying this is true. Do you think there's a world in which, to your point, earlier, they also might have also been a little scared of their fans. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? That's our social relationship and it's like, we almost want to wait until maybe. That doesn't

justify allowing those fans without say anything to literally go after an attack. Yeah, but at the same time, like, what do you do when you're, the people that are like funding your career are scary? Again, I empathize with them, but like it doesn't justify Arlandria not too long before their breakout, like telling people who are curious about the relationship that they're weird for caring. Yeah, but I also think something that just kind of came to mind where you're saying like, oh, you know, they kind of, they got really dark. There was a lot of like character assassination, those types of things. My take on it is like the reality is there were people saying really effed up stuff about their relationship. And that's separate from people who just were like,

I actually, you know. Yeah, man, there's always going to be nasty, ugly, bigoted people online. We're going to say. But that does. But that does. You just. I can't argue with crazy. And so that's where I'm like, the people who put a blanket statement across, like, anybody that questions them is X, Y, and Z, no matter the reasoning. So it's like for Nick and Alandria to try to address us a niche group of people who are like, who are. Uphill battle.

Yeah, it's an uphill battle. So I'm like, I think so. So many times people have made, like, it's one of the easiest things to do to go to your audience that treats you like a, like a God to just say, hey. I don't condone this. If you support this, you don't support me. So many people have made statements like that. But it's hard because they easily could have.

I will stand. I do stand by that. In like many, many such cases, there are a lot of people that should say that to their audience. But Nicolandria, I'm not arguing, I'm not arguing like the ethics of whether or not they should or should not have. I think my thing is I maybe get why they were scared, why there's a possibility that they were scared to do so

and thought the easiest way and the least dramatic way to do all of this was wait until the next season of Love Island Airs, maybe let's let the crazies in our audience attach to a different couple. But I think it speaks to how we've sat here and said O'Landrie is like above addressing the breakup. She's not above it, but if I'm her, I wouldn't touch it. Yeah, exactly.

That's what I think. I feel like she's better off not touching it. I think the drama is beneath where her career is. at because again I think with this it all started knowing that like listen when you come out of reality TV show the couple the relationship is more valuable than you as the individual which is what you know it's like it's just it's how it works people want to follow the relationships they want to follow the love yeah and that's why I kind of think the way they've handled it I'm like if I'm her I'm probably not going to say much I'm like you guys what's that what's that what they should have done

what when they broke up instead of just being like you know what nothing's changed we have the exact same feelings for each other as we did while we were dating we're just not going to date. They've trolled everybody. They should have, someone should have unfollowed someone. Made some, made some tea. Right? And they should have leaked that like someone's upset. Never actually speak on it.

Never actually, but they should have. It would have, yes, yes, that the, they would have been a little bit of short term headache for long, because the fans would have been like, oh, see. But then it's a little bit of a mess. It would be, Alandre is upset and then everyone's going to be like, Nick, you're fucking evil. I mean, when he's been moving afterwards, I wouldn't. I will say I bet I think O'Landria has too much grace and too much, she's too smart and she knows, first of all, she doesn't need that. No. But I think she knows that if there was any kind of animosity, she's probably doing him a favor by ending this a piecefully.

I don't even, they probably did end peacefully, who knows, but I'm like, she could so quickly just like, the fan base loves her. And of course they love him too, but she knows that they would come for him. And she's probably protecting him in some aspect by being like, let's not touch this. She's protecting herself. I mean, like. Both. Yeah, but also I would argue that at this point in her career, Allandria doesn't necessarily need the Love Island fervor fandom anymore in order to have a successful career. Because at this point, she's like, Elandra's editorial success.

But people are mad because they're mad because they got bullied and gaslit. And some people's lives were like truly like. Again, not their fault. It's the crazy fans. I do think they bear some responsibility because I do think they leaned in. I do. And I think when Alandria is saying things like, why do you all care about a relationship? You're weird for caring is playing in that type of narrative.

Do you think she's talking to the crazy fans, though, in that moment? No. I think she's talking to the average fan. The bloggers or whatever. Who are just like generally curious if they're still together. The interviewer is like, tell us. Talk to us about your relationship with Nick, and people are so interested. You know, it came from a place of not questioning the authenticity of their relationship,

but just asking about the relationship in general. And she was like, why do you all care about our relationship? I would almost read that as her saying that to the crazy fans who attack people. Yeah. Yeah, like I could almost see that. Again, again, it got so bad that you can't be vague if you're actually going to make some kind of statement, which, again, is a statement that's been done so many time by so many celebrities. when their fan paces lose control, which is to put out a, hey, listen, thanks for love and support,

but I don't contone this type of behavior. And if you want to support me, stop doing this. So easy to do and almost universally well received. Now, I'm sure there would be in a couple crazies out there that might have been a headache for them. But that is not justifying allowing your peers to just really, to truly be attacked by your audience. It's just not. I just, I, it's kind of getting like Selena and Haley. Yeah, I mean, a bit.

But even both of them have, they've both said things, yeah, yeah, have spoken on. Well, that's fair. Here's my, my biggest wonder is that to go back to what I was saying about, Elandria, not necessarily needing that Love Island audience anymore because of where she's at in her career. I mean, you look at Nick, Nick absolutely still needs it. He needs it. He's still going to be fine.

He's going to be fine, but guess what? Like, Elandria, one of one. To be completely honest, there is nobody on the, Like, Allandria, at this point and at this point of where she's at in her career as far as, like, being a model. Yeah, but like, I mean, but like the Nick and Alandria relationship was a big part of that. Yes, but now at this point, Alandria, Alandria heard just, just the name Alandria alone, you know exactly who you're talking about. You know who she is. Sure.

You know what she's doing? Nick, how much? I could be talking about you. No one fucking knows. You know what I mean? So it's like Nick is going out there DJing. Now, guess what? What's your point?

My point is that Nick still needs this love. island audience so maybe there is a world if i'm being cynical is i is love island audience is huge right and so like let's make no mistake that both of their fan bases derive from the live island yes and i'm not i'm not saying that their fan bases derive from somewhere different i don't i don't think as as big as alandria's career is and as big you know you i think it would be very hard to find an elandria fan who is like 10 years later there are some people who have been like oh, I didn't know you were The Bachelor. It's taken a decade.

Well, yeah, obviously. And like a thousand episodes of a podcast to sometimes rarely have that experience. Yes. I don't think, again, despite her great successes, you're going to find an Alandra fan who didn't know that she was on Love Island.

For sure. I also do think as far as, like, there may be people who don't know her, but will know her work and will have seen her on red carpet, seen her on runways here. And what is her work? Here's my, I mean, she's been doing like a lot. She's a model.

She's a model. She's a brand ambassador. Like I think there's a lot of that stuff. And basically my point, yes, I'm not saying it's not because of Love Island. The only point I'm trying to make right now is that I think, I think, Alandria has and currently is doing the work to set herself apart from Love Island. Nick, not doing that same work. Nick is doing, Nick is going out and DJing and I just think there's a different.

You keep saying DJing. I know it's fun to make. I know it's fun to make fun of Rayad TV DJing. I'm not making fun. But why is DJing less of a, thing than model. She went to the Met Gala. She was invited. Well, that's unclear at this point whether she was or wasn't invited. Anyway, but certainly again, she's got, she is getting eight list opportunities for sure.

I mean, she has a, she has. And that's what's crazy, you know, like the thought of this whole conversation in my mind started because when ASU announced that they're now having a degree in influencing. Yes. How crazy. That is a very Arizona, Arizona State University Corps. degree. Yep. Shout out. Listen, I have recently wondered if college is a scam, but that is proof that college is a scam. I think college to me, I've thought a lot about if college is a scam too, because I went during the pandemic, and so I basically didn't get it. And so what I think about college is, I think it's all, it's way more you learning how to be an adult and in a weird middle ground and making connections with friends. And that's what I think it's about.

I do too. Well, that's a scam. And you can go anywhere. No, because it used to be. But you have a place where you can safely figure that out. I think that's what the point of college is. But it used to be you have to have you got a degree because that degree gave you access. Oh yeah degrees mean nothing anymore. Yeah. And so now ASU is giving a degree in influencing. Influencing by definition is an entrepreneurial job. You don't need a degree to like start a YouTube page or an Instagram account and to and to be like have the type of personality to other people admire and want to influence. Like if I can give you a degree in influencing right now. Well, I will say if you want to just get out.

Outside of being hot and having the personality, you have to have a passion about a topic. You have to be consistent. You have to want to, you know, like, you have to be resilient. I mean, you really have, you have to, like, be able to, like, overcome the critics and fans. And you, and those are kind of like the three things, you know.

And that's the thing that most people don't do. You know, like that there's your degree. What is ASU teaching you about? influencing. I mean, what an absolute scam. Which, but what's so fascinating about it is like from an influencing standpoint, that's why every kid nowadays you hear wants to grow up and be an influencer or a YouTuber. They don't even want to be an actor anymore. They don't want to, they don't want to do, you know, because there's so much power and an opportunity in it because like, because you are like you, but you're influencing. You are, you have power over these people.

You know what the if I were a student going to ASU for the influencing degree and you happen to be listening to this, what I would do instead is actually get a degree in entrepreneurship, whatever that is. Learn how to invest your money. Learn about business strategy. Learn about like personal branding. But even then you don't, you can you can learn all that without paying hundreds of thousands of dollars. But if you're going to ASU anyways and you're like, oh, I'm going to do influencing, just become just do entrepreneurship. and then take influencing courses

if you feel like you need to brush up on tools. I could imagine if one of my kids, like I say, I saved up for, you know, I saved up over the next 18 years to pay for their college and they wanted to go be an influencer. It's like they're, you're, well, I was a film major,

so probably my parents had the same thought. Although, I guess, at least, it's at least, it's a, period, and it worked out. At least it's like an art. No, I didn't. Never, never, never. No, well, that's, I mean, listen,

like, you all got job. Like, that's the funny thing about, like, being an employer now is this like, I don't know or any of you went to college. Now, granted, my team interviews you guys based like, this office has some pretty impressive degrees. Yeah. I've come to learn.

This office has really impressive people. Locke, to be smart. And they got an interview because of degrees. They did not get their job because of their degrees because I had no idea where any of went to college. How do we feel about trade school versus college? Because a lot more people are going to trade schools these days.

Yeah, because you're learning a skill. Yeah, it's more skill-based. or arts-based. It's also economically way... What is the trope about teachers, like those who can't teach or something like that? Those who can't do teach, which I think is very offensive towards teachers

because I think teachers are the ones that like... Sure, but this degree in influencing is by far the definition. Because to be in... Who's teaching these classes? Who are they getting? Special guests. Alex Earl.

Charlie DeMileo. I mean, yeah, they will definitely bring in a bunch of guest lectures. No, I see what you're saying, though. Yeah. You're going to do, of course. I feel like it'll be... I feel like it'll have to, I mean, yeah, if you have a professor teaching, like, a degree like that, it's like, at the end of the day, I think it's going to be something similar to, like, what we studied where it's more so, like, a production degree with an emphasis on, you know, you're going to learn social media or something. It's essentially a degree in, like, understanding how to market yourself for social media is what it's going to be.

It's going to be talking about, like, a video. You want, like, engaging for three seconds. To start a Instagram page. Because you can, because ASU is going to be able to make money on people coming in. Yeah, it's a scam. It's not going to be just ASU. It's going to be a bunch of different colleges. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day.

It makes sense. A lot of people going to, that's where you get a bunch of people on, like, a lot of people going and doing these stuff are going to ASU. It's just like proof that college is a scam because you clearly don't need a degree to be an influencer. I don't necessarily think that like college is a scam though. I think that a lot of people, I think it's dumb to think that the decision you make at 17 for your degree kind of based off of like, like, I was just like, Damn, I saw La La Land and wanted to write for, and also wanted to, like, write for SNL.

And I was like, cool, I'm going to spend all of my money doing this. But to work for SNL, you would probably need a degree. That's kind of the point. Yeah, obviously. But what I'm saying is the putting, like, I think the college is a scam mindset from a lot of, from a lot of us once we graduate, once we go and live our lives. We forget that it's like, you're 17 making this decision. And you're also about to spend a money.

shit load of money. If I actually went back in time, I don't know if I necessarily would have done a film degree. Like, I don't know if like going to film school specifically. I was an accounting major, but like that that degree still helped me get interviews

for jobs that required a degree. Yeah, of course. But what I'm saying about like, I just don't, like I don't think college is a scam. Like I think that certain degrees and the financial aspects is scammy and I think it is meant to take advantage of people. But I think that time in your life, whatever you're doing from the ages of 18 to 22, like to have a space.

So you're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to find a community? Yes, that's essentially what you're doing. You're learning how to make friends as an adult. And I think that's really important with how lonely people are, especially Gen Z. I don't think college has made people less lonelier. Well, I went to college during the pandemic. So it certainly didn't make me less lonely. But when I got to go back and be in that community, I realized how important that was and how worth it.

that that was to me to find a community of people that were interested in similar things to me coming from somewhere like Florida. So I don't think college is a scam. I think it's really important. I'm with you. I'm with you on a lot of that. I think that there are a lot of aspects of going to a university that are scammy. And to be honest, I wouldn't like looking back at 18, I was really fortunate. I had a scholarship and then my parents helped me with my room and board.

But like I was not planning on going to college. because I didn't want to take on the debt. But I think right now, so many people are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt after getting undergrad masters, assuming that that's going to provide them with this, like, amazing career. And now they're stuck in all this that they can't pay back. And now they're forced to think it had some sort of deeper meaning because they're faced with all this debt and they have to justify the debt.

And on that side, I'm like college. But it's not college as a scam. It's this system that we've built around college in America. I just genuinely think, because I do believe that. college is important. Like it was really essential for my growth. That's where like it honestly like made me who I am. It's how I ended up in Japan. It's how I ended up having like such a passion for all the things that I'm passionate about. So like I totally am like so, so, so so on that side of like it was really essential to my growth and developing as an adult and moving out of state and things like that. But then I am like, we need to discuss the cost. And also if you're somebody that's like considering going to college and taking on the debt, I would rethink that and be like, go to community college. If you want to continue your education. That's to, yeah, to your point. Because I think it's actually fucked up what the university is doing.

The financial aspect is completely a scam. Over the past 15 years, college turned into something that was like a really good option to something you had to do. Right. To like participate in society. At the same time, it became less and less necessary for you to actually have the degree. Like, and with the internet and the, in YouTube and all these things available. to you to learn and about things like all of my employees like they're you guys are learning things

that not not because what you went to school for because you're you just learn on the job you know like you got the interview because of the degree but you didn't get hired because of it and you certainly didn't get promoted and is it that's not a new that's not a new concept no but it's because i'm just saying with with with with the way information is now more readily available you can self-learn how to do essentially anything. And more and more employers are seeing the value and just people who actually have the skill set that you need rather than do you have the degree that says you have the skill set.

Anyways, back to Nick and O'Andria. We didn't even talk about David. No, we didn't talk. So then yesterday, and then Nick is, Nick is lost in the sauce. Because over the weekend, it was discovered that Nick from Love Island, follows this David guy who is a

pedophile rapist murderer an evil person he's currently facing trial for doing some of the most evil shit like evil chopped up body in his car allegedly yes and it's one of the most horrifying stories of so many horrifying stories out there

and it turns out that that Nick and some other season seven love islanders have hung out with this guy which in itself is that's maybe just an unfortunate accident. That happens. You know, you just run into some people and you find out. But apparently Nick still follows them, which, listen, most people don't pay attention

to who they follow. So like, you know, maybe it's just, if nothing else, maybe Nick is just lost in the sauce in his own universe. But if you found out that you were acquaintances with Jeffrey Dahmer and then Jeffrey Dahmer got arrested, I mean, there is no difference in the evilness that Jeffrey Dahmer did to what this David guy has alleged and almost certainly has done why all the evidence that is out there. And if you even cross past with Jeffrey Dahmer, your friend would call you up and be like, yo, did you hear what Jeff got arrested for? Right. And there's just no way that Nick,

also Nick didn't just hang out with this guy. Nick seemed to be good enough friends with this David guy that he, there's pictures of him on his Instagram and he took a, like, and the explanation was that Nick took David's phone and posted a picture of him and whatever and they were maybe just having fun. But clearly there was a, he knew him well enough, which again, I'm sure he didn't know how evil this guy was. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact that he's still following is, is shocking if no other reason. I mean, friend of show, Queen, Cynthia Bailey, a couple weeks ago found out that an old picture that she was in that the son of Rob Reiner.

Rob, Rob Reiner, who was allegedly, who is accused of killing him, really killing his parents. was in the background of a picture. And that in itself was... Not even a photo that she was in. It was actually... Her daughter and her... But the eerieness of, like, someone that, you know, did something so horrific

was, you had... You were just in the same room or the same restaurant. Is this something you hear about and you talk about? And so, like, it's just hard to imagine that didn't just, like, show up on Nick's radar.

And then Nick is still following them. Will the internet discover that over the weekend? And then this morning, Nick posts on a snobbing. Snapchat, a picture of himself with bizarrely wearing a grill or, or I don't know, maybe it was AI or something. It did kind of look. It did look like a Snapchat filter.

I don't know. It very easily could have been a cell. Whatever. I don't know. It's certainly a choice. With a song, with the song that, you know, he attached a song to it, the song titled, I got murder on my mind. Now, that just comes across to someone who's trolling his audience.

Yeah. But like, so over the weekend. people are pointing out that you are loosely somehow connected to an evil person and wondering why you still follow this person. Now, some of the Nick's peers who also apparently cross-vassed with a person had unfollowed them. Yeah. So that happened.

And his response. As of now when we're recording this, by the way. He is still following David as of now. As of now, you know, but his response is to go on Snapchat and put a source. song that murder is on my mind. Again, this is such a disgusting person. I mean, I'm not saying Nick, but this David person. It would just, it would make you feel so icky that you even, if I found out that I even like, was at like McDonald's with him, I would be feel you're just like, oh my God, I can't believe I was in the same room with this person. It's just a bizarre.

That has nothing to do with Nicola Landria, but it's just like bizarre that, and if nothing else, it just tells me that Nick is this loss in the sauce. Yeah. That is, he's just, like, wrapped up in this. I feel like you, he needs to, I think he should address that, honestly, because I took a picture with somebody in L.A. Kind of when I first moved here, they were like somebody that I knew from TikTok, whatever, super problematic. I didn't, I did not follow the drama or any of the creepy stuff that this person had done.

I posted a picture with them. People started DMing me. I took it down, made a little statement, hey, I had no idea. I would have never, like, I thought it was interesting to meet somebody kind of famous, whatever. I feel like it's more important to like just set the record straight on this where if if he fully does not know, I'm like, just come out and like be like, hey, I, I, this was unrelated. I did not mean to post that Snapchat. It's nothing to do with that. Like he needs to nip it in the bud because it's definitely weird. There's no way that's an accident. You don't think so. Well, I think I think there's a way it's an accident. If he's over the weekend, the internet and anyone attached to this story discovered that he followed this evil, evil person. And everyone was wondering, why is he still following him? Yeah.

Many of many people, all people willing to give this guy a benefit of the doubt because, like, there's just no way someone this evil that Nick would want to in any way be associated with this type of evil. And so the defense is like, I don't know. He just like didn't know somehow, which is still hard to believe. But his response, the next day is to post on a Snapchat, a song titled Murder, I have Murder on my mind. Why would he post that to bring himself more involved with this?

I don't know. I don't know. I think he's just, I think. Maybe this is a really bad, like, I don't, I don't want to put that on him so much right now because I'm like, but I'm like, make a statement. Like, let us know that you were being dumb as fuck and you accidentally like for like didn't notice the correlation or something. I think it's more about like he knows he's being hated on right now for the breakup. Wow. That's dark.

And I think he's just like leaning into trolling the haters. If he's using Snapchat to troll people about this, I'm sorry, but that's fucked. Like, that's crazy. And I'm not saying he isn't, but I'm just like... That's crazy. I'm like either addressed it or we're going to assume otherwise. We'll see. All right, well, I could talk about this for hours.

You know, sadly, I know, we talked about this on Plus. We did. I opened up my... I posted a picture of me and the girls, and someone wrote like an essay and tagged me on threads. Oh. About what? I assumed it was our conversation from Plus. Oh. Because I hadn't talked about Ligna, Andrea. I didn't read it, but it was like, guys, this is... Happy for you or sorry that happened. I don't know. This is a, this is a pastime of reality TV is to dissect these relationships. And they're all gonna, Nick and O'Andra, they're all going to be fine. Thriving,

yeah. They're all going to be fine. Their life is significantly has more opportunity today than it did two years ago. I do this whole whoever Nick is following and his trolling of, of, I don't know what's up at that. I hope that gets cleared up. Me too. Outside of that, though, this is a fun topic and I hope it is meant to be fun. Reality TV breakups are always kind of fun. Up next, we do have Kenny from in the city talking about his reactions to part one of the reunion and what we can expect for part two. But before we do, don't forget the VAL Files. Plus, is ad-free and available to you all. And like we just talked about,

we get into the weeds on some of our favorite topics. Sometimes we test out some of your more divisive topics on Plus, like the Nick and Alandria breakup. And so if you want to get into the weeds with us, be sure to sign up. In addition to your reality recap deep dyes, we have our pop-acture episodes. In our update specials where you get your favorite updates

from your favorite asked Nick calls. You also have Justin and Mary, waxing poetic about all the things that go on inside of their brain and you should check it out because it's fascinating stuff fascinated every day. You'll never guess

what we're gonna talk about next. Do you guys talk about the WMBA on there? I brought up Sophie Cunningham one time but Justin doesn't know who I'm talking about so he'll just go okay and then we move on

kind of similar to this. Well I'm curious if your passionate opener will really move the needle. Let's see. Yeah, guys. Sound off in the comments. If you don't watch the WNBA

because of me talking, then they'll never let those play basketball again. I need a reality show. I mean, I don't watch... Here's the thing. I really don't care. I'm not watching SportsCenter. I'm getting all of my news

from the Girlies on TikTok, and that's who I trust for the WNBA news. Yeah, it's very like social media driven. I did see it before I came in today. It's T. All right, well, let's get to Kenny. Replacing Glass is always feel

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products consistently because the products feel luxurious and nourishing without breaking our bank, which is the part I love the most. Give your skin the affordable, luxurious, glow up it deserves. Go to Naterium.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 10% off. first purchase today. That's nutterium.com slash v.a-a-l-l. Kenny, welcome back to the file files. You're like, it was like as if you were here just last week. We're back. We're back. Listen, I was saying, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that I'm back so quickly. Well, the truth is there will be a variety of opinions, I am sure. We are nothing,

if not polarizing on the show. And as a polarizing for us and yourself, I think you're among friends. But in seriousness, we obviously had you and Whitney. here in the studio last week, and you came in, having not watched the reunion, but you clearly seemed very nervous about how it went for you. Is that safe to say? Yeah, I was just nervous, not necessarily how it went for me. It was just, it was just kind of a nasty experience. And so I wasn't excited to, like, watch it back. Yeah. Well, as a fan, I enjoyed it. But also as a fan, I honestly, I sent you a message. It was like, you know, man, I honestly didn't think it was that bad for you. And I think my big take was, you know, I love Lindsay. I'm a fan of Lindsay. You know,

I've known her for a long time. We go way back. I like to consider her a friend. And I think she's really good at what she does. But sometimes, you know, listen, you can't carry a show by yourself when you had an ensemble cast. And to me, it almost felt like, as I said on the show, like, if Whitney is your villain, you need a better show. And it just like, it didn't, it, you know, quite honestly, It kind of felt like the cast kind of overplayed their hand with the two of you because it was like, you guys apologized for the mistakes you made. And that, and it is this,

they had nothing else to go on. So the apologies weren't good enough. So they just kept, it was like, what are we doing here? I don't know. Maybe, how did it feel for you watching it back?

I'm curious. Yeah. It definitely, listen, at the finale, there were apologies. And then in the reunion, when it first came up,

Whitney profusely of a, apologize and I and I don't you know Lindsay's response to that was I don't accept your apology and then they proceeded to go in for you know the next 20 minutes or

whatever it was. I don't know listen I think there were a number of instances this season where I'm like is this really how you feel or is this like some sort of a storyline or like why is there

like this unwillingness to like hear what we're saying and like try to empathize in some capacity. It wasn't just Lindsay. I think that was the case on a number of different kind of things that popped up around our relationship.

But yeah, they had no interest in an accepting apology. That's for sure. Another thing I found interesting because obviously you got a lot of heat for referring to the rest of the cast is Lindsay's minions. And I can understand why that phrasing maybe didn't land with them.

But I kind of, after watching the reunion, kind of get what you meant because it was like, well, why are we sitting on this fucking Whitney mistake? Is there no other drama in this group? Is there nothing else meaningful going on that we can't argue about that for five fucking minutes. And so it comes across as these people are clearly close with Lindsay. I mean, listen, Lindsay can, you know, she, again, she's a, she is very good at what she does. She's a self-identified big personality. I can understand how, you know, you might not want to go up against her, but like, hey, didn't we sign up to be on a reality TV show? And to your point, it kind of comes across as

a lack of willingness to go to defy her or to disagree with her. for the sake of not trying to look bad. And maybe Minions was maybe the wrong word choice. After watching that episode, I got to say, kind of understood what you were saying. Yeah, listen, I probably regret minions. It's just not nice,

and these are all individuals and very successful women and their own thoughts and stuff. But, yeah, like, it felt very much like, hey, it was determined early on, right out of the gates by Lindsay that this is going to be the focus and and everyone kind of got on board. Even Gavin, you know, jumped ship and got on board. And so, you know, Lindsay's a very influential person. She's obviously the biggest, one of the biggest personalities on the show. And I feel like people just really fell in line. And I just wish that there was more of a willingness to hear us and what we were saying. So we didn't have to feel like we were being so defensive.

There was no like, I don't think at any point throughout the season did myself or Whitney feel like we were hurt. There was a lot going on in our relationship, a lot going on in our lives. And it was kind of like shoot first and like not worry about the questions later. So Minion might not be the best word, but what you saw in the reunion is what it was the whole season where it's the whole cast is her people. and there was not a lot of, you know, defectors from that the whole season. Is it safe to say or that you and Whitney don't collectively hate women as a couple, which I will, I got to say, I would hate to be like on the receiving end of that accusation, but objectively one of the most hilarious.

My favorite, my favorite line of the season, I got to admit. And it made me, it made me really like you, by the way. It was almost the point where it was like, I was almost like, thank God because it's just the accusations. It's like just throw stuff at the wall and maybe something will stick. And when it hit like you hate women and you hate moms, it's like, that's where we're at. Another thing I thought was objectively hilarious. Well, let me ask you, what did you make of or what did you think at the reunion when Lindsay

would said to Whitney that after she rewatched, she rewatched that scene that she was literally throwing up from, I guess, how volatile. How awful Whitney's comments were. And I just want to point out, no one has more empathy for moms, period. And especially single moms, knowing how hard and how much my wife does is someone who has a partner like myself who shows up. So as single moms out there, my heart goes out to you. That being said, Lindsay, like Lily did the kicking, screaming, crying, throwing up.

Crane crying throwing up. And in a reunion. But like it, again, it was like, and that was my read was like, we're making Lindsay do too much. Like that's,

it's not fair to Lindsay to have to bring this level of intensity to something that I don't even think Lindsay believes. But like what else, what else do we have? But I was just curious like, what was it like hearing her say that at the reunion? Because that must have been kind of like, oh,

we're not, no one's making Lindsay do anything, right? For sure. This whole conflict came. about because there was a big beef between Yvonne and Lindsay. And if you saw in the trailer to start the year, like that beef continued a lot more than what we actually got to see. But the narrative was shifted to Whitney and Moms because Whitney and myself were the ones that called her out for, you know, not doing what we would have done when we needed to mend a friendly, a friend's relationship.

Yeah, you know what? She is like trained in PR and I don't, and then she put out a statement later that I didn't read the full thing on her social basically talking about how she didn't cry for six months about necessarily Whitney's comment, but what she was kind of going through at the time. And I do not doubt that she has,

it is wildly difficult to be a single mother and be providing and all of those things. things. I have what I will argue is the best single mother in the history of single moms. And I am like, you know, always, will always be grateful for what she's given me. But I think it's just this ignoring where Whitney was coming from, which was you had the opportunity to put yourself second in your friendship first and you chose not to do that. And you said the reason why was because of the mom's thing. It is what it is. I think we're all just kind of like, it's not, surprising to me. I've seen the show. I've watched all her house. I've seen who she is for the last

10 years. I don't know why people are all of a sudden, they're like kind of surprised about the flip, the script going on here. But I think we're all ready to move on a little bit. I'm not surprised. I mean, I'm thoroughly entertained by Lindsay. I just, I would like to see her receive more support from her friends because at some point, you know, it's like you're making her, you know, there's, there's activated and there's like, I mean, come on. I mean, I know, I know, I know she's not that mad at Whitney. I just, I just, how do you stay mad at Whitney?

I don't know. That's what I'm saying. It's like, how do you not know? If you, she knows Whitney at this point. And to genuinely think that that was like Whitney's like nasty intention, she is sorry. She meant it more about like showing up for a friend and less about moms. Yeah, that wasn't her word. I'm curious about your friendship with Gavin because like, again, I'm so fascinated with the Bravo universe because I think

It's the, like, you know, like, we talk, obviously we talk about reality TV. And there's a huge difference between, like, love competition shows, like, Love Island and the Bachelor. And then you have, like, the Bravo universe, which is, like, to me, like, Bravo is, like, it's, it's, like, heightened. It's, like, it's, like, it's, like, it's more real. You know, because, you know how WWE is, like, it's like, they're like, it's not real wrestling, but, like, it's kind of, like, real and it's, like, heightened. And I do think Bravo's more real. But what's real about it, and I want to ask you about your relationship with Gavin, because my read on Gavin, and I know if you're comfortable saying,

because I know we talked a little bit offline, is that he kind of shows up, and to me it looks disingenuous. But you and Gavin were really friends prior to this experience, and it seems like this experience has really come in the way of this genuine friendship that you two have

as a result of how he's decided to show up on this reality TV show. Is that accurate, or what would you have to say to that? I would say that probably the most disappointed, part of this season. You know, I feel like I was very mischaracterized, especially in the beginning of the season. I can deal with that.

The part that's been the most challenging, and I think, like, really, you know, when you get that gut-wrenching feeling of just, like, this is not good, would be the dynamic with Gavin. He's been my boy. He's been, like, my best friend. And so, like, when we come on the show

and we're like, we're best friends, Gavin's been my best friend. I don't think I've seen him in the 20 years that I've known him in the city. I don't know that I've ever seen or heard of him spending one-on-one time with like Lindsay or like, you know, Kyle, yes, he's boys of Kyle. And socially he knows the others.

But like there's this feeling and it started from like the first time the cameras came up. This kind of feeling of Gavin like flipping the script a little bit and as soon as the camera started rolling Gavin was a different person to me and different versions of my relationship than I've ever seen him be

and once you have that conversation over and over and over again I'm like Gavin I'm not okay with this on camera off camera he cried at the finale I've spoken to him since then I brought him on watch what happens live and he's still kind of like publicly you know

just being very intentional about the way he's moving and it's very clear to me that he is prioritizing followers and clout and some sort of a storyline maybe on the show over our friendship and that's that's super difficult to kind of digest no yeah that must that must be yeah painful does he acknowledge that at all like when you're when you have the conversations off camera off the season. Does he have any sort of acknowledgement to that? Like, dude, like, kind of got a job to do, or is he strictly business and believes it? He's over and over. He's like, I get it. I'm sorry. I understand. I've word got it. Like, you know, same thing as what we saw in the finale,

where he's like, I understand where you're coming from. I'm going to focus on it. And then as soon as an opportunity comes up for him to do something that's going to get him followers, you'll go sit on Lindsay's lap. You know what I mean? And it's like, dude and like for me i've i'm i've been in the past like an anxious avoidant or sorry an anxious attachment kind of like relationship style guy for a number of things that have come up on the show and i'm just like i'm like loyal to a fault and i will kind of let things go sometimes because i the idea of having a conflict with gabin or being estranged in some kind of way with with Gavin is like gives me anxiety.

But at some point you have to be like, this is just wrong. Yeah. And the way you're showing up with the friendship is wrong. And I see where it's coming from and the priorities are just not where they should be. In my opinion, I don't know. I don't know how to. No, that makes sense. Well, we have part two of the reunion that airs tonight when this episode comes out.

Is there anything that you can preview for us? We don't want to spoil everything. anything obviously, but are you and Whitney still under fire, or are we going to move on to different topics? Whitney and I are always under fire, totally under fire. I think coming into the reunion, I was like, I'm going to just, the tricky thing is we filmed the reunion after like episode four or five in the season, right? So we filmed the reunion a bit ago. And at that time in particular, I was getting a lot of heat for like kind of standing up or defending myself or Danielle or whoever to some of the girls. So I was in this, you know, approach of I'm going to go in

here and, you know, not get too aggressive or too crazy and really hope that I have this kind of vindicating moment via flashbacks or via, you know, some other things that they show and to give context to different things that came up throughout the season, whether it was the spark gate or my confrontation with Lindsay and some of the things that really rubbed you the wrong way. And I was going to, you know, I was hoping to kind of lean more on

this vindication thing that I thought was going to come. First episode of the reunion, not so much. I'm not sure what we're going to see in the second episode of the reunion. I'm hoping that there's some clarity that we get on a lot of things, but you never know. You know, I still haven't seen it.

So we'll see what we get. Okay. Wow. How is Whitney doing with all of the, you know, the public, the heat maybe? Is she doing okay? Yeah. No, she's great. Honestly, like, I, there's this back and forth on the reunion and everyone has an opinion on

online, but the amount of support that we've gotten from people in our DMs and comments and just speaking out, people stopping us on the street. Like it has been, you know, overwhelmingly positive to us. So you're saying that maybe people, we're not, I'm not the only one. We're not the only ones who maybe had this take. It's like a reasonable. I don't think so. We've had a lot of reach out and a lot of the commentary online and stuff.

And listen, there's always going to be people to have their own opinions. But we did this looking for community. And in the second half of the season, we've really started to. feel and see that community from the Bravo, you know, Bravoverse. I mean, and that's what makes these shows so fascinating and the kind of the, and I think fans like us kind of almost like to analyze like the game plan, so to speak, because everyone kind of comes into these reunions with some kind of plan, you know, and then you can kind of, you know, critique their execution of that plan. But you can overplay your hand. You can come

in feeling right and feeling like you have, you know, people on your side. And so, sometimes that hand can be overplayed if you go too far. And part of me feels like, and again, I think it's more of the fault of her peers. But it's just like, again, I mean, how long can we yell at fucking Kenny and Whitney? Mostly Whitney. I mean, people could probably yell at you for a while. I mean, they yell at me all the time. We just say, you know, we have faces.

We're just like, I don't want to fucking hate that guy, I know what I think. But like Whitney, are you fucking kidding me? Your face is... Yeah, you have a great face. Great face. Maybe I'm projecting. Don't let Nick talk to you later. Yeah.

But I just like, the Whitney is like the, the nice. She's so sweet. She's so sweet. She's so sweet. That's what I'm saying is like, I don't understand. Like, fine, if you want to say she's too nice, great. Like, I will say, okay, I can see how you can say she's too nice. But like, to be like she's a nasty, vindictive person or like, you know, she's stoning.

She hates moms. Yeah. She hates moms. It's crazy. Part of the snack brand. It's allergen-free. And these girls know that. They're all aware that she's literally starting a business.

So to be like you only do pola-you-no, macha and Pilates and worry about a closet, which we're coming live from. To have a closet, Kenny. It's beautiful. Yeah. Doesn't have to worry about the closet. Closet's taken care of you.

But like to reduce her to just that is just like, yeah, just nasty. Well, listen, you went in pretty worried, but as it sounds like, it wasn't as bad as you're worried about. And if you come back for season two, maybe there's a little bit of redemption coming your way. I was hoping the redemption was going to be in the reunion.

Sometimes you have to wait a whole season. But no one's watching if Whitney's your villain next season. I just am going to put that out there to the producers as someone who knows a little bit about this shit. It is not compelling television. And I really love your show. I mean, I really love in the series. and I do think it has a ton of potential.

And I do think it has some great characters. I just hope more of those characters are willing to, you know, have some fun discourse with their friend Lindsay. I think, and it doesn't just have to be Lindsay. And I think if we do end up during a second season, I'm sure there'll be new faces and some old faces and, you know,

a bit of a new dynamic. But I hope some people in particular, two or three that I can think of can find, storylines that are, you know, not just, you know, piling on my relationship. No. Well, see. Or maybe not. Maybe not.

Anything else you want to say before we, they, you know, that you go into the reunion, get off your chest before the off season? You know, in the end, it was a very, like, cool experience, right? And if anybody can, like, take a lot of the, the heat or criticism or whatever, I think it's probably Whitney and I just because we were coming in to this we were just in a really good place and it made us a lot

closer. I hope that looking back some of our cast members will be like, you know what? Maybe we should have heard them a little bit more as opposed to just shooting first but I think it was a good experience. We built some really cool community and that like Bravo community is really starting to show up

and I'm really excited about that prospect and that's awesome. some of the conversations, the deeper conversations that are being had is a really cool part of the process. Well, that's awesome to hear, man. I appreciate you taking the time. Thanks for showing us the closet, live from the closet. That's great, man. I would show off that closet too. Yeah. Hey, that closet. And New York. Yeah, I'd be drinking my macha in there. It's a very zen space. Congratulations to you. I mean, listen, yeah, life can't be so bad.

you seem to be doing just fine. Kenny, I appreciate taking the time. Good luck tonight. I hope you will survive it, but I hope it's not too rough around the edges. And either way, I hope to see you at me back next season in the city. We appreciate it. And thank you so much for having me back on. All right, buddy.

Take care. Bye, bye, bye. All right. How cute she's starting an allergen-free brand. That is so on brand for her. That's the one thing I remember her for my season. And she was like, I'm allergic. to everything.

Like, so cute and wholesome. The reunion is tonight. I'm really curious what, maybe that's why they only had two parts. Yeah, I mean. It's checking out based on what we saw the first time. Like, are they going to go after Danielle or? Maybe.

I don't know. For all that complaints about the reunion, I did thoroughly enjoy it. Yeah. Maybe because it was so ridiculous. I just, I always, when Lindsay's on TV, I'm locked in. She's so good at it.

You know, we didn't get a chance to really dive into O-C. We'll dive into O-C on Wednesday, but loved the final scene with the three ladies. Oh, yeah. And you could tell, like,

it was at the end where Shannon, like, they were like, it's good to be back where they were kind of fighting but, like, laughing at the same time. Yeah. We are kind of so bad.

I hope it was. Yeah. Do we think it will? honestly yeah because I don't feel like this season is going to be I think it's going to be a much lighter season I hope so and I do I do think it will be

I think with 20 years they're definitely kind of not a coast year not a coast year I wouldn't say but like I do think that they probably saw the way last season ended and none of them want that again you know what I mean kind of thinking about Kenny's interview

Like, it's like, you know, you want fun drama. You don't want like, I don't know. Life ruining. Yeah. Like friendship ripping apart. Yeah. Attack on characters. You know what I mean.

I just thought it was Tamara and was like, you know, life, you know, when she was talking about the. Teddy. Teddy of it all. And acknowledging that, like, life's too short, which it is. And she was like, how she'd be like, you know, you don't pay your taxes. And it was like, first of all, you should pay your taxes. But second of all, who's worried about their peers' taxes?

Not me? I can't understand it. I couldn't tell you I've ever been worried about someone else's taxes that aren't my. I guess. Yeah. But anyways. I'm next. We have David and Casey from the ultimatum, one of the few couples that were worth rooting for.

And we get to talk to them about where the relationship stands today. What are some of their thoughts and feelings on the rest of the cast and the things that are going on with that cast. So up next, David and Casey. If you're still dealing with unnecessary bank fees, it's time to use chime. Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. Chime offers no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees. With the Chime card, you can earn 5% cash back in any category of your choice like gas or groceries. China helps you build credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. Your money can also grow faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. If you're ever in a pinch, spot me. Let's eligible members overdraft up to $200 fee. Fee, free. I've recommended Chime to so many people I know and they rave about it. In this economy, every dollar helps. And with Chimes fee-free banking, that helps you do just that. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com slash V-I-A-L. That's chime.com slash V-I-A-L. Sign up. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Bank,

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David and Casey, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having us. Great to be with you guys. We're excited to actually talk to a bright spot in the season of the ultimatum. Well, first of all, let's just focus on you guys. You guys are still together. Yes? Yes. I'm curious from your perspective, what did doing the ultimatum do for your relationship? It really opened our eyes, I think. The biggest thing going into this, why I think we succeeded as well as we did is because, one, we were already very secure in our relationship. It wasn't insecurities we had where the other person was going to cheat or we were so stressed about what the other person was doing.

Instead, we just really wanted to work on what we were lacking in our relationship just to better the relationship and we're open to it, both of us were. So it was very therapeutic, I would say. Yes, and especially when I was there, you know, they described the process. And it's pretty much like they, what hit me was when they're like, these are the questions, you're supposed to ask your partner before you get married because there's millions of people that get married and then find out these questions and answers later. So it just made me more interested in the experience. Yeah, David, I don't know if you've heard me talk about you on this show.

Yeah, thank you. But I've really appreciated, I guess, how you showed up to this show. You obviously had some moments that were criticized and certainly some moments that maybe you didn't love how you showed up, so to speak. But what I really appreciated about you is you seem like, unlike so many of your peers and so many men, quite frankly, that we see on Reaite TV. like a willingness to actually be a better version of yourself and an acknowledgement that maybe you know you've had some tough times in the past and maybe you had some points of view that you were really dead set on but you were open to understanding why maybe you weren't right so first I just want to applaud you for that but I'm curious like where did that come from I mean I think

it's we watch these shows and we see how easy it is to like dig your heels and lean in and scream to the rooftops that you're right and everyone else is wrong but you seem to be willing to acknowledge that maybe you're just not a completed project, so to speak. And I think it was just a really good demonstration that even though we might start somewhere, we can always improve and get better and change. I commend you for that, but also, like, I'm curious, is that how you felt? And where did that come from? Yeah, so thank you. Honestly, I appreciate the kind words. And yeah, I just, it felt like, you know, as more as I was going through all the exercises that they were helping us go through every day. And, you know, I was just like, wow, you know,

opening up more about myself because I used to always search for peace in Casey and other people and never found it in myself. So going through all those exercises, you know, being with Monica opening up, just talking back and forward, I was able to wake up that emotional muscle in me. And it just, you know, it was like, wow, damn, I should have done this a long time ago, you know, I was like just ignored that. It was kind of a cold feeling, numb to it. And then it just walked back up. And I was like, wow. What do you guys do now in your relationship as a couple to to continue to practice that emotional availability with each other? I think one of the biggest things is when we have arguments, when we talk to each other,

we're actively listening to each other, listening to understand versus listening to respond. Nowadays, like, we just really understood the difference in that, and what we were doing before was just listening to respond, and now we're able to really just understand each other better on a different level when we do have discussions or arguments or just conversations. and it really just, you kind of grow naturally from that. And I would say the big part on my side would be like, we're going to argue, man. I would not care about if her feelings were, you know,

hurt. I would just worry about mine and move on cold, right? So I was able to actually understand her feelings and be like, okay, wait a minute. You know, her feelings do matter. And I need a priority, I need to prioritize. Priority. Yeah.

Her feelings so I can, you know, be a better person for it. And I just woke me up. And I was like, wow, you know, I was happy for it. It was a blessing. That's awesome. Do you feel like a little lighter and happier as a person, David, now that you've been able to like kind of tap into that side? Oh, yes, for sure.

A lot of weight off my shoulders. There's a lot of forgiving of people in my past and myself as well. So it just was like, it's awesome. With, you know, doing the work as people often say, and you seem like someone who literally did the work, not just say, hey, I need to do the work. I'm curious how you, too, specific you, David, See some of your peers, specifically some of the men on the show and how they moved and how they continue to move.

Obviously, the show tapped into some pretty serious conversations and some pretty serious allegations. I'm just curious, from two people who actually knew these people and filmed with them, what is your point of view about some of the conversations and discourse that's going on between your castmates? Yeah, I think it's really unfortunate. it. A lot of it is they're so, everyone's getting so offended and taking it personally, which I understand, you know, their partners saying something about them, but it's just so back and forth. I think a lot of it has to do with maturity and just not wanting themselves to look bad. So they just keep kind of attacking each other, even on the show, it's just hard to, there were times

where David would have conversations. There was a time where Killian even said at a table during, I think, the change of or he wish he was more like David or sounded more like David because David was just more respectful towards me in this experience. And that was just something that nobody ever actually practiced. It was very obvious that the guys never practiced that. They were just super emotional and very immature with how they reacted to things and then just start being, you know, attacking each other. It's hard because if you don't know something you don't know, right? So if you don't know how to treat a woman a certain way or how they should be treated, then it's just like, okay, he doesn't know. Doesn't make it an excuse though, but still it's just like the guys on

the show seem. I think to that point, David, I think you showed up at the ultramatum and got into some conversations with some women. And at times, you said or did some things that made you come across as maybe just unaware of maybe the right way to speak or talk to a woman. But you seem like we said, you were open in willingness to, like, hear people out and be wrong. I think a lot of men like you, David, kind of going through this journey, will be accused of things like you don't like women or don't respect women or hate women or things like that. And yet maybe certainly you've made your mistakes and you had to own up to them and you had to improve. These men are, they actually come across as if they don't respect women, right? Because it's one thing to move a certain way and

and be called out, but, you know, they, they continue to move in a way that is very disparaging, very, very misogynistic, very just ugly towards these, these women they were in relationships with. And it's, it just seems really nasty and ugly. And does that make sense? You get what I'm saying? Where it's just like, what is the difference, you know, like, there's a huge difference between someone who just like has some ignorance, some blind spots of how they speak, and then being called out And, you know, quite honest, I'm sure imagine, David, that when you saw it, I'm sure at times you were horrified by like, I can't believe I came across this way. That's not how I want to come across. And yet your peers have come across this way, continue to come across this way, and they are doubling and tripling down. So it actually comes across to me is that they do have very negative feelings towards women and about women. And they aren't interested in actually like looking at. in the mirror and seeing how, where their blind spots are. Yes.

One thought we're seeing that in real life, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. And they prefer to be right versus look themselves in the mirror. And all that drama and getting, you know, traction on Instagram by putting hate out there. It's not good. It's not good at all. I just told them, like, just forget about it.

Be gone. Be gone. Be gone. Be bygones. And forget about it. Let you all, you know, handle what you need to handle. Go through the help you need and take those actions that you need to do to be better, you know? So it's just.

Yeah. They're not doing it. They're just, you know. They care to be. They'd rather be right. And what I'm noticing, because we see both sides of specific relationships, is there's some people that would prefer to be right and look better. And every single time they talk, they twist every single story in just a little bit to favor

themselves. And they just want to look better and be right versus taking any accountability and acknowledging where they were wrong and, you know, playing that victim card like you said. Well, back to you guys. Where, uh, where are you guys in your relationship? What, uh, what does your relationship look like these days? Amazing. Great. It's good. Yeah. Just getting ready for Italy. We're leaving in a month. Okay. So you're getting married in a month. Yeah. Yes. Are you guys like technically married? Is that right? Oh yeah. We have to get married in the States before you get married. Okay. Yeah. You know, it's just way more. You did the legal thing. Okay.

Can I ask or is anyone from the cast coming to the wedding? Only one person. Haley is, yes. Only one person. Okay, Haley's coming. Okay. Yes. Haley and I have gotten very close. We've become. She's a great person.

That's so nice. That's awesome. And what does the future look like for you guys? What's on your bucket list of things you guys hope to accomplish as a couple? I mean, we definitely want to have children at some point. We're not trying to rush it. However, I am 35. So, you know, we're not going to avoid it.

Just a healthy family board and just, you know, continue to work on our So. Our business. And is fatherhood, David, something you've always looked forward to, or is that something that you become more excited about after being in a relationship with someone as wonderful as your partner? Both.

I've always wanted to be a great father. I always wanted to give the, you know, my son the father I didn't have and vice versa, you know, so just so excited. And if you happen to have a girl? And same.

Yeah. I mean, as a guy, we always think about the possibility of having a son, but I'm here to tell you, it might not happen for you. And it's awesome. Daughters are great.

So if that is your destiny, you'll have a great time, man. Yep. Either one. I'll be happy. Well, I know you guys have to get going, but anything you want to leave us with? Susie, married. Do you guys have any other questions for our happy couple? There's one thing I wanted to say.

Okay. Yeah. I'm getting a lot of heat about the no friends. Okay, look, the context of the situation went down as in, okay, we're married. and if I have a friend that flies me out to go stay the night with them at their place, is that allowed? I said, no. I said, okay, we'll get an Airbnb,

no, we'll get a hotel for you, no. That's not an option. Can I go with you? No, it's not an option. So on me, I'm sorry, it's not. I'm with you. You still have friends, go eat with them, have fun, I'll be there, yes, by the verse, but no, not sleeping over. That makes a lot of sense, because that the specificity of the topic you were talking about wasn't available to us.

And yeah, like, I'm with you. If you're in a committed relationship, there are definitely some boundaries. Like, by all means, be friends with the opposite sex. But, like, if you want to be in a committed relationship, a big part of a relationship is sacrificing. And so, yeah, there's definitely some, I think, I'm with you. I think it is okay to ask your partner to not participate in some of these things that they would otherwise be able to participate in as friends if they were single. And that doesn't make you a jealous person for setting a boundary like that. So thanks for clearing the air, David.

I have a question real quick. How shocked were you guys by the Jessica Grace and Idris at the reunion just coming out of nowhere? And did that kind of put a little bit of a damper on you guys getting married like right after that? We really just kind of blocked a lot of that out. It wasn't, it was very, we were both shocked. I mean, it doesn't show reactions on the reunion. It didn't show anybody reacting. But in real life, all the guys were like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, chill.

Because what he, you know, unfortunately what he said. It just didn't make sense to me, but I was happy for them in the moment. Okay. For us at the moment. Yeah. Well, we, it was, that was not right directly before when we got married. There was still some time between. So it was kind of, it did pass a little bit before the exciting news of us getting married.

So it didn't. I don't think it put a damn on it. Oh, yeah. Have you spoken with them at all? I've spoken with Jessica Grace briefly. Yes, all the girls, we kind of have, we talk to each other for the most part. But, yeah, they're going through it right now. They're just trying to navigate their situation.

Well, hopefully they're able to do that. It seems like, you know, at least with him, similar to you, it seemed like he had a, maybe the bar is so low that went to. take some accountability. We're like, holy shit. But he does seem to be willing to take the heat and acknowledge his mistakes. So maybe that's a step in the right direction for them. Well, congratulations to you both.

I appreciate you guys taking the time. I know you have to get going. And good luck at the wedding. I hope it's wonderful and beautiful. And I hope your future is amazing. And all the best to both of you going forward. Thank you. We appreciate it.

Thank you so much. All right. Take care, guys. You too. That will do it for today's episode. Thank you to our guest, Kenny. David and Casey for joining us today. And thank you to all of you for listening. Bye-bye.