The Viall Files - E1164 - Hayley and Ashley: The Ultimatum

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files. In this episode, Hayley and Ashley sit down with us to discuss Season 4 of The Ultimatum.  Content warning: This episode contains content of a domestic nature that may be unsettling to some listeners. So please listen at your own comfort. If you or someone you know is struggling, here are some resources: National Domestic Violence Hotline: [phone]-SAFE (7233) Text 'START' to 88788 https://www.thehotline.org/ Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Helpline: 1-800-622-HELP (4357) Text your 5-digit ZIP Code to 435748 (HELP4U) https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/helplines/national-helpline Both are free, confidential, and available 24/7 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: 3 Day Blinds: Head to https://3DayBlinds.com/VIALL for their buy one get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, and drapery. Veracity: Head to https://veracityhealth.co and use code VIALL for up to 60% off your order. ASPCA: To explore coverage, visit https://aspcapetinsurance.com/viall SmileSet: Listeners of our show get an additional 35 percent discount when they go to https://smileset.com/viall  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles 

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Visit O-D-O-D-com to book a demo. It's O-D-O-O-O-O-O-com. Hello, everyone. Welcome today's Going Deeper. This is Nick and Susie. Susie was kind enough to join me for this interview. Before we get to today's guest, Haley and Ashley, we wanted to issue a trigger warning because the contents of today's episode contain content of a domestic nature that may be very unsettling to some people who listen to it. You know, when we invited Haley and Ashley on the show, we certainly, uh, watch the reunion and we're aware of obviously some of the topics that were discussed. And it certainly seemed like Haley had more to say. And so obviously we invited Ashley and Haley here to share their side of the story. As you will hear in the interview, things took a very intense turn very quickly. And I think quite honestly, went a direction that we fully didn't anticipate.

And quite frankly, I didn't really feel totally equipped or prepared to have that conversation. but once we were here and had Haley and Ashley on the couch, it was really just important to both Susie and I to do the best that we could. We hope that we did. We apologize to anyone if we, you know, made mistakes in how we executed this interview. But we certainly recognized the sensitivity of it. And it was made clear to us by Haley that she, She just wanted to be heard and that she felt like no one believed her.

And so it was really just important for us to give her a safe space in a safe environment to share her story. And that is what we tried to do. And we will also have resources both on screen and in the episode bio. Haley, Ashley, welcome. How are you ladies doing? Doing okay. You're okay? I'm a little nervous.

No. Okay, good. Yeah. Good. Well, we certainly have a lot to talk about. I, you know, obviously, like fans of the ultimatum, I feel like this season really took a dark turn. Yeah. And so obviously, we have a lot to get into to unpack the relationships that maybe, is it safe to say you ladies survived.

There was a lot we saw at the reunion. Yeah. And it almost felt like there was a lot more that we didn't get to hear about. And that's why we wanted to bring you ladies in together. You know, hopefully that. There's comfort and solidarity having you women together. But first of all, like just how you ladies doing emotionally, like what has this experience been like for you too?

Oh, whirlwind. I feel like we're all being a little bit re-traumatized and going through it all over again. But since it's been so long, but trying to get through it. Yeah. I feel like they're, you know, you have a year and a half, I guess, to really look within yourself and be like, behind the scenes. Like, what could have I done better? and you're just waiting for the show to come out,

waiting for the show to come out, and then you, like, all the healing that you've done and then you have to see, you know, I guess what you live through. And then, for me, at least, it set me like 10 steps back. And I think that was the hardest thing for me. Like seeing myself on TV, I'm like, wow, that's horrible.

Are you talking about just like the relationship itself or just like how you handle itself? Are you being more self-critical? Or just more about the relationship that you guys... I'd say both. I've been very self-critical of myself because, obviously, I was in a very toxic relationship. And, you know, my triggers are my responsibilities.

And I reacted in ways that we're not okay. We're not healthy. And I take full accountability for that. It's just, it was really hard to see myself again and, you know, kind of like relive that. that. And also it didn't help like, sorry, I don't want to rant, but it was really hard for me, I guess, like opening backup communication with Blake. And I think that was the hardest thing for me. And that also set me 20 steps back. Yeah. You know, and I was like, I was, I brought,

I was brought to the place where I was on the show. And I haven't been like that in so long. and I think that was the hardest part because I've done so much to, you know, get away from that, get away from that angry person that I was. And I feel like it just, it just took me back to. I have to preface. Like, I don't, like, now that we're friends, I don't ever think Haley is an angry person. I just think, I mean, knowing her now, I'm like, she's the sweetest human. But, like, when it comes to, like, that relationship and the toxic relationship,

she has to do a lot of, like, fight, like, it's fight or flight. mode, you know? And it's just, I hate seeing her like that. And knowing her now, I'm like, that's not who she is. Like, and I don't want anyone to like, see the show and be like, oh, she's such an angry person. It's, that's not her. It's just that toxic relation brings that out because she has to defend herself. Yeah, for sure. Did you feel watching it back, there were things that you learned about yourself that you didn't know a year prior? Or was it, did you go through that experience and you came out with like this awareness, like, oh, this is how going to look or come across.

And then your perspective was changed watching it back and seeing how people responded or like I'm curious if you had the awareness or did it take watching it back to see certain things from both you and the relationship. I had the awareness on the show that I didn't have the self-respect for myself or the self-worth to walk away. And I idolized Blake because, you know, someone who doesn't come from stability. I idolized the stability and the materialistic things, which I've never had. And I idolized him in that sense.

And because of that, I felt like I needed him rather than wanting to be with him. And within myself, like, I felt very insecure with my relationship. I felt insecure within myself. And it was a really hard place to be in the moment, but just watching it back. like obviously context is important but that doesn't take away from the accountability that I have to take from my reactions and like two things can be true at one time you know and so just seeing myself like I was like I will never get to that point again like there is no reason that a relationship should get to that point ever ever yeah so I'm question for both you ladies

I'm curious like what was the perception of the men that you were dating Blake and and Killian and in the perception of your relationship when you guys decided to show up and participate in the ultimatum i think i'm just completely delusional i thought we were going to end together like i just full i fully thought like we were going to like make it out and i also like think when you're blinded in love for four and a half years like you convince yourself like someone's such a good person and everyone outside can see a different perspective of what you see but like now when i was watching it back, I was like, oh my God, this is what everyone's been telling me. And it's different watching it.

Because what people don't see is like, I'm not seeing these things firsthand. Like, they're watching the show and they're like, how did you not see this? And I'm like, because on the other hand, I'm being like convinced from Killian that he didn't do these things. And I'm going to trust someone I've been with for four and a half years over someone I just met. Sure. So it's a little bit different. But I definitely enabled a lot of it now looking back. And what about what about you?

Our relationship was very rocky before. I even went on the show. There was always empty promises. Like, I'm going to change. Like, let's go to therapy. Like, there was always, like, I felt like a dog chasing a bone, you know? That's a stupid analogy. That's just how I felt like.

Like, I was always getting teased with empty promises and growth and all that. And it just never happened. And we, I don't know why we still wanted to be together. I really feel like it was like a true. trauma bond in a weird way. And you tried breaking up or ending the relationship prior to coming on to the ultimatum? Yeah.

I did twice. Could you guys actually break up or was this really you tried and you kind of? Tried and you told me we're not breaking up. Okay. Yeah. You know, watching the show is interesting because like early on in the show, Blake almost came across as this like emotionally literate, stable guy. Killian was kind of always a hot mess throughout.

and yet they both kind of exemplified, you know, when we kind of talk about toxic men or men that you want, you know, your friends or your daughters to avoid, they in different ways kind of exemplified both. Like Killian's kind of, well, I don't know what makes him attractive. I'm sure you, you know, I don't mean that.

No, no, no, you're not offending me at all. But I guess it's like, from the jump, it was like he was giving douchebag pretty early where Blake is almost like a scarier version. of, you know, like the guy who really, he seems to be hyper aware of what you should say or what women want to hear or almost like aware of what healthy masculinity should look like,

and it's scary to see a guy like him use that kind of language. When did it kind of first open your eyes to who Blake really was as a person? You guys don't think I'm crazy saying this, but it was... probably like maybe five months into our relationship. And then kind of,

how did things go from there? The beginning of our relationship was like super rocky. You know, like he would like degrade me. He would degrade my body. My first job I got out of college was like, I'm so worried about you. And I was like, why? And he was like, because you're a girl

and you've just gotten everything handed to you. and I remember we were at P6 in Austin and I stormed out and we had like a screaming match in front of the restaurant and you know there was like multiple things like that where I just felt so small I always felt so small and that he was above me like I love fashion he told me I needed to throw away my whole closet and start again um Lots of things like that. Why did I say? I don't know. I know you've mentioned a few times, like having insecurities that came from the relationship. And you just mentioned now like body shaming. Do you mind if I ask like what that looked like? Because we didn't see that obviously. But hearing you talk about it, I think that's something a lot of women go through with young relationships. It sticks with you for a long time when somebody makes a comment. But I'm curious like what he was doing to body shame you.

Yeah. So before I met him, Like I was very big into the gym. Like I, that was my passion. I love to stay fit and so, so does he. And whenever we got together, obviously it's like happy relationship weight. So I was like gaining weight and wasn't going to the gym as often. And he would like joke and say, you're fat, you're fat, you're fat. And I would say, stop calling me that.

Stop calling me fat. And he was like, you're just so sensitive. Like he would just say, I'm joking. He would say he's joking. Yeah. He would say and then say I'm joking. which yeah once I was upset about it

and then as it kept going on I'm like it's not a joke like you're saying sorry and you're continuing to do it after I told you I don't like that you're calling me fat and there was this one time

I remember we were in California and I'd worn this dress a long time ago in Brazil and I wasn't comfortable like wearing dresses anymore because like I was gaining weight and I was in the mirror and he was on his phone

and I was like I feel so chubby in this dress and he's all on his phone and he looks at me, he goes, yeah, and looks back at his phone. And I lost it. That's something that I haven't really been able to talk about, you know, in the public because I, one, it's hard, but I also feel like I've been trying to protect him because, like, I don't know why I still have empathy for him. I don't know why. Oh, my God, I don't want to cry. I don't know why.

I don't know why. I still have empathy for him, but I just have not wanted to come out and say everything. But, you know, after me seeing everything and getting called a liar and all these things, like, I'm not lying. I'm not lying. I just haven't told the full truth.

And, you know, once you're in a relationship like that, you kind of understand. But then, like, I don't expect people to understand because I should have left a long time ago, you know. A lot of people go through that. though. They stay longer. That's kind of where the degrading, you know, conversations happen.

And from there, like, it was, like, always had a drinking problem. You always had a drinking problem and didn't know how to control as alcohol. And that's, like, one of my triggers, like, when people act angry when they're drunk or act, like, they're patronizing you or, like, just, like, talking down on you. when they're drunk, that's like a huge trigger for me. And he would like corner me and like bow up to me and like, what are you going to do about it? And, you know, you don't see that because Blake's very charismatic and he puts on a show. I always say it's the Blake show.

He puts on a front. And, you know, that's where it started getting physical. And there was pushing, there was hitting, you know, and I take full responsibility for that. What do you mean you take responsibility for that? I take responsibility for me participating in that toxic dynamic between us. Like I, I beat myself up because I should have left a long time ago and he should have never bowed up to me, but like me, I did hit him whenever he bowed up to me. I did. That's really hard for me admit. That's really hard for me to admit because he keeps saying like I'm going to come out and tell people that you hit me, but I think.

I don't know. I don't know. If there's one thing I think me and Haley learned through all of this is Blake and Killian are very similar. One is just very calculative and one is a loose canon. If that gives you context at all. Yeah. And we can see how degrading Killian is publicly.

Yeah, he really. One's just behind the scenes. I'm sorry guys. I'm trying not to cry. I don't, I really don't want to cry. You're fine. I feel like I've let this get a hold of me for so long. It's just really hard to talk about.

You know, there's a lot of heavy topics happening from this show. And one thing I will say is everyone that's come here or been online and actually taking accountability and talked about their experience. Like, it's, we all make mistakes, but it's really applaudable to, like, own your shit. So I understand that's really hard to, like, say out loud, confess, however you want to say. say it. I'm just saying that as a true side note. Like at the end of the day, people, you know, appreciate the honesty. Everything Susie said and it's not easy to take accountability, but again, like, not condoning what you did, but I get the impression it was in a situation where

more like a defensiveness. And I imagine also he would weaponize that against you. Yeah. He definitely would. And it still is like to this day. How so? Like, he's telling me, oh, you want to go out and lie? And he's like trying to, we say this word on the show. Like, he literally is trying to manipulate me into believing his side of the story that he wants to tell. And it's, like, demented to me. It's demented.

And, like, I don't understand because I don't work that way. but it's like he's like well you hit me you put your hands on me I'm like I did because of you like you

provoked to that and I take accountability like I do like I should have never done that but he provoked me he did and that doesn't make it okay what I did was not okay

but it also makes what he also done not okay and it frustrates me because I have no problem taking accountability of the things that I've done I have no problem but for

him to like lie and say that he never put his hands on me when I know he did him like say oh well haley it's just a classy misdemeanor i should have never gotten arrested i'm like but you still put your hands on me like that's not the point you have slapped me in the face during intimate moments you have like like i i can go out and talk about those things and talk about what i did like he can't talk about the things he did but wants to twist it and say that i did i'm so sorry The biggest thing I think about Blake is he wants to protect his image no matter what. And that was a big thing in our trial marriage is like he would get very defensive and just try to protect his image. And he would go at bat and take anyone down in order to do so.

For example, this morning the news broke because Killian and Jebben came out on, you know, their at-home podcast about me and Blake having some affair. Blake blackmailed me with that right before we were supposed to come here me and him kissed on the show agreed to never speak about it and then this is a year and a half later like this is a year and a half ago when that happened

this all happened while filming when we kissed yeah on while we filmed but a year and a half later he hears we're about to come here and he blackmails me and he's like I'm gonna come out with it blackmails me and he thinks that me and her

are gonna come at each other when we've become friends. So he heard that you coming on here and reach out to you and said, if you go on, I'm going to do. He was just saying, I'm going to air it out. I'm tired of y'all being friends,

blah, he thinks that we're going to like come on in a, he's afraid of his image. And he wanted to blackmail me with, I'm going to tell them y'all, or we kissed. And I'm like, I don't, like, at this point,

it's like I just didn't want drama. That's why I never came out with it. Me and her weren't friends on the show. Me and Killing. None of us are together. I just didn't want drama and I'll take accountability for going about it the wrong way. with her,

but it just shows a lot of character about the timing of how that came out. I don't know if y'all saw their little at-home podcast this morning, but... I was made aware of it. I saw a clip. How did they not... They didn't air that, right?

No, it was in an Uber. Oh, okay, I was like, how did they not... So it was off camera. Off camera. And I'm assuming that at the time you guys agreed to keep it because you were... Yeah, we were like... Neither of us felt romantic for each other.

Like, we definitely, like, connected, like, not emotionally, what I say, but... leaned on each other because of, I mean, you have to lean on each other in a child marriage, but I don't think either of us felt like, or I didn't feel like romantically into him, but we were like, what good is this going to do? There's so much drama. Went about it the wrong way completely, for sure.

Did Blake tell you that that happened? No, I had a gut feeling that something happened because I did go through his journal, like I've said. and I was like really mentally unstable after and yeah I went through it and he was like fantasizing about Ashley and so I kept asking him you know did you do anything physical what was the extent of that whatever and he I was having a panic attack on the floor and he was like you're just so insecure you're so insecure like this is all in your own head you're doing the to yourself. You need therapy.

Like, you're letting Ashley get to you. Like, all these things. I'm like, you did all of that knowing what you did. You know, like, you didn't fess up, nothing. And I don't know, it, it's, to me, it feels evil. It feels very evil that, like, someone would see somebody in that, like, mental state and just, like, egg it on. I feel like to make someone question when you have like a intuition and when somebody

tells you your intuition is wrong and doubles down like the fact that you guys had Jared a kiss and you had this kind of like intuition when somebody does that I think that is one of the most horrible things you can do to somebody because that intuition is there to protect you and keep you safe so I understand that is like makes you question your own reality exactly yeah actually how did it feel when Blake was like telling you while filming that that he was empowering you to set boundaries. And genuinely, like, he did help me see things. Like, it did help me.

Like, I'm not going to say he's, like, completely, like, wrong and everything. Like, he did help me and, like, try to see Killian for who he is. I just didn't know who to believe someone I just met or someone I've been with. If you are a pet owner, you know how vet bills can add up. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program, whether it's a late-night scare or an unexpected trip to the vet. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program helps take some financial stress out of veterinary care so you can focus on your pet. The ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program offers customizable accident and illness plans that fit your budget, your lifestyle, and even your pet's particular quarks.

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Right now, get quality window treatments that fit your budget with three-day blinds. Head to three-day blinds.com slash V-I-A-L for their buy one. Get 50% off deal on custom blind, shades, and drapery. For a free, no charge, no obligation consultation, just head to three-dayblinds.com slash V-I-A-L. One last time, that's buy one. Get one 50% off when you. you head to three-day blinds. That's three-dayy-y-blinds.com slash V-I-A-A-L-L. Are Blake and Killian friends today? Mm-hmm.

They are. When did that friendship blossom? I don't know, do you know? Like two months ago, maybe? Pre-reunion? Oh, it was before that. It was before my mom's stuff. That was two months ago.

Because at the time, while filming, he was like... They hated each other. Blake spent a lot of energy trying to convince you about how toxic and bad that Killian was. At the time, how did it feel like... like he was actually trying to help you? Or did you get a feeling that he was kind of being, like at any time did it feel almost manipulative?

Yeah, it did at first. And then that's where I kind of like started clocking it towards the end. And that's why we had our like kind of our feud at the end. Because like I'm very easy, like I'm very naive. Like I'm not point blank I am. I just believe in the best in people. And it came off across genuine like he's trying to help me through this. And then when I started to try and like understand Killian where he was coming from, it was just a complete 180.

And I started to like clock that he was asking me questions to get a reaction out of me. And that's when I was like, I don't need to deal with this. You're going to call me manipulative. Use what I'm like vulnerable in, which is my emotional stability. I'm not going to do this, which I could take a stand with him. I don't know why. And I couldn't take a stand with Killian. but there was a dynamic shift for sure

how long are you with Kelia before you came on the show four and four and a half years and what like what was kind of the general nature of your relationship prior to coming was you know like was it similar to Haley's where it was you know looking back already toxic you had tried to leave the relationship how stable or unstable was that relationship definitely not great I mean I tried really hard to rebuild things

because him and my dad my dad he saw him for who he was. We lived in Miami for three years. We moved back to Texas. My parents weren't able to see who he was in Florida. When we moved to Texas, they were like, oh, we're seeing who he is now. I, like, wanted to protect the person I loved most, and we moved back. So it was definitely Rocky trying to rebuild that relationship.

It pushed me away from my family for a while. So it was Rocky trying to like... What were they realizing about Killian and what were they trying to communicate to you? That he doesn't treat me right. He's manipulative. And they were like, you don't deserve this. Like, you deserve way better. Did you listen to our interview with him?

I did. What did you think about that? That's exactly who he is. Like, he just doesn't take accountability. He, the first thing he posted when the finale aired was taking accountability for how he treated Haley because he knows that's what the public saw and didn't take accountability for how he treated me at all or my dad. He doesn't see any wrong in how he treats my dad.

It's like, you're trying to marry me. You should be respectful to my. father and me seeing back like the interviews after I was like that's dirty like he's also in the comments like yes he's obsessed with my dad for some reason he's also in the comments like kind of contradicting the things that he has been apologizing for yeah and I feel like that should be noted like if you're actually sorry like you're sorry and he also is still friends with those two guys just to be clear like he is friends with them one of them yeah he was like one of them one of them commented on one of my videos

yesterday. Yeah. So do you think he made that up just to save face to the public? Yes. But he's fully friends with them. Yeah. I mean, one of them,

the one that was commenting on yours was texting me, like, I'm so giddy about the show. Talk to Killian, either during filming or post-filming about those text messages, because that was... I had no reaction to it,

and I should have. I was just being fed things from him to, like, not think it was a big deal. Like, what? Like there's there's accusations of like, oh, she was hanging out with those guys afterwards. And I was being fed that by killing. And she's not true. It was like, oh, she's hanging out with him after she, she, that happened.

And then also. Yeah, and he's like, well, why would she feel comfortable staying in the same house? She was hanging out with his friends. Apparently. Did you meet them while you guys were filming? So I went to, you want to finish what you're saying? No, I was saying. And then also he was just like, well, why would she feel comfortable staying in the same in the trial marriage?

if it's such a big deal. And I was being fed that to where I was like... Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense. And then I apologize to her at our girls' night. I'm sorry, you're having to deal with this. That didn't show, but there's a lot of things. Regarding that, so I had a film free day, and I went to go meet Blake's dad and two girlfriends at the Encore Beach Club in Vegas. And the dad and one of the girlfriends left. and we were sitting down and I was like, okay, I'm going to go up to the bar to get a margarita. So they go up to the bar and one of the guys happened to be there and was also at the bar. And he turns at me and he goes, Haley.

And I look and I was like, oh my gosh, it's one of the guys. And I was like, can I help you? Why were they there? Yeah. One of them was there, but I have no idea. In Vegas and they live in Texas? They were there because I was supposed to meet them for friends and family. Oh, I see.

Which is why they were in the group chat. And I'm not going to lie, I hung out with them one of the nights too, but I was being fed like this whole other narrative. But I don't lie. Where I hung out with them too, thinking it wasn't a big deal. Yeah. But yeah, so he started talking. He's like, I just want you to know, like, you're so beautiful.

Like, I didn't mean those things that I said. And I was like, honestly, I don't give a fuck if you apologize to me. I don't care. that was absolutely disgusting uncalled for and I was like, oh, like, I have nothing to say to you and I was like, hope you have a great day. I was like, actually, no, like, don't have a great day

and I walked away. And I went and sat down next to Blake's, one, Blake's dad's other girlfriend and we're just sitting there. He comes back up to me, tries to apologize to me. I'm like, no, absolutely not. He goes back. Then he comes back again

and his stepmom's like, just give him a chance to like say what he needs to say whatever, whatever. He brings me a drink. And it's like, I'm so sorry. The interaction between him and I was like maybe five minutes. And then he went and sat next to Blake's stepmom and was talking to her. And his other friend was talking to the stepmom. And then his other like distant brother-in-law, I guess, was sitting next to me and like talking to me about his girlfriend.

And I was telling him about Blake and whatever. And that, just to clear that up, that was the only person who I exchanged Instagrams with. And the only reason why I did that, he was like, you know, I want to support you whenever the show comes out, like you and Blake's relationship. And he had gone on FaceTime with his girlfriend and like we were all talking. And he's like, you know, I wish you the best, whatever. Like, well, we're going to be keeping up with you. I was like, okay, sure. So then we exchanged Instagrams.

And that was it. That was like the extent of it. And that was probably like 10 minutes. So 15 minutes total, I guess. But like for them to say that like we were hanging out and drinking and getting drunk by the pool, like that's not true. That's not true. What do you make of these alleged comments about Blake's dad telling you to wear lingerie for Killian? That's true.

It wasn't for Killian just to clear that up. His dad never called me while I was on the show about that. And that's just what I was told. That's what she was told. So that was like a miscommunication. I'm sorry. I was told that Blake's dad called Haley during or during this show too, from Killing said,

Blake's dad called Haley saying to wear lingerie around me because sex sells. And then that's what I was told. So what is the truth? The truth is before the show, we were talking about like dynamics and how we were going to approach the show like what were the boundaries, blah, blah, blah. And Blake's dad was like, you need to make a production. you need to act you need to this you need to that and I was like what and he was like yeah like you need to wear lingerie with whatever partner you pick because sex sells and I was like I'm not doing that

that's so weird that's just a weird comment from someone's dad your son's girlfriend yeah but like did you have other like awkward interactions with his father prior to that I wouldn't say that's just how his dad is like His dad is just, like, kind of all for show, I guess, and says out-of-pocket things like that. It's very common. I got heat from Blake for airing that in my thing. And I was like, I apologize because I don't want to bring anyone's family down. What do you mean you got heat from? He was saying, like, that's a lie and you shouldn't have done that.

And I was like, I was just speaking my truth. And I didn't think about the repercussions I can come to his family. And so I apologize. I was like I'm not trying to take anyone's family down. I hear you on that, but that is a weird thing to say and inappropriate and also just like can make anyone feel really uncomfortable. And I apologize because I'm just kind of, how did you hear, like how did you hear about it? Killian told me. I told Killian.

And Killian took what I said and told Killian. And Killian took what I said and told you a lot of telephone. So at the time of filming, again, they weren't friends. You guys weren't really friends. So you guys were, forgive me, four toxic people just. kind of coming for each other. Agreed. Yeah, very.

At what point did y'all become friends? Because it seemed like... When we both broke up and we moved to Dallas. Oh, gotcha. We didn't realize we both lived in Dallas. When did we go to lunch, like, in February? April. In very beginning, April.

Yeah. Yeah, so we went to lunch. I apologize to her. We just had a good chat. Yeah, we had a good conversation. And, you know, at that point in time, like, I wasn't ready to be friends just because of the things that. happened on the show, just how I felt towards everything.

But then... Took some time to build. Yeah. And, you know, after she was very consistent and, you know, I was able to really see her for who she really was and her character. I was, you know, open to that. And so ever since then, we've built a great friendship and we've been there for each other through all this BS.

And, you know, at least we cut that out of it. And I'm very grateful. I think it's like she's able to like bring out. her strength and me and like I'm able to like let her I don't know like we kind of like are helping each other get a sense of what we didn't get in our for our trial marriages on the show yeah if you've ever looked at a photo and thought maybe someday I'll fix my smile well smile set can help you out smile set can straighten your smile and under eighteen hundred dollars less than half the cost of traditional braces in the entire process is designed to be completed from home and starts with it at home

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Like when you went going into the show, were you hoping to end the show with a proposal? Yeah. I mean, like that's what I want. It's like marriage. Like I wanted to like live life with him. And I feel like when you're, you should be there for your partner. Like that's what you want in a marriage. 10 toes down for your partner. It just wasn't reciprocated on his end, and I didn't know that. He's telling me he's there for me. He's going to protect me. He's doing all these things, but I'm doing it for him.

He's not doing it for me. So I'm being told things and obviously looking back, but none of that's true. But I was like, yeah, we're going to end this together. We're going to be strong and we're going to get through it together. And then obviously not the same for you, Haley. It didn't feel real. It did not feel real. I knew that he was going to because that was kind of like a,

conversation that we had. Like, I was like, we should not be getting engaged. We're in no place to get engaged. You said that to him while filming? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. And we even had a conversation with my cousin about it.

And my cousin was like, you guys should not, like, actually be getting engaged. But I'm like, but in my head, I was like, well, I still want to leave with him. So, like, what would make more sense, you know? And at that point, like, all my stuff was moved in. You know, like, our lives were starting to get intermingled. So I kind of was like, oh, well, you know, maybe this will be good for us, you know, like, kind of like blindly holding on to the hope of maybe things will get better. But like the actual proposal didn't feel real because we had a conversation like this was what we were going to do. Early in filming, you and Blake seemed to hit it off pretty well.

And there was that whole scene where Killian was distraught watching your social media. That bowling video was never posted. I posted like a picture of sushi, like just sushi. Well, how did the bowling video come up? They give us those like blog cameras. So it was filmed on that. We like to use later. Sure, sure.

So I never post that bowling video. So what you did post was what? Like of a pickleball court, not Blake, I never posted Blake's face at all. It was like of a pickleball court of sushi. There's always things that they were doing. Okay. So you definitely weren't trying. And I do social media.

Like, I've been. But that is important context because it almost came across as you were, that was my question. Like, were you trying to, you know, get a reaction from Killian, make him jealous or anything like that? And I actually thought Haley was the one that told on me for posting stuff. And I thought Haley, at the time, I was like, oh, God, Haley's mad I'm posting. It was Killing the whole time. He was telling producers, Ashley needs to stop. I'm like, and I thought it was you being jealous, but it was Killion.

The phone and the social media stuff really brings an interesting, dynamic because a lot of reality shows they fully take your phone and stuff like that. I was going to say, did production tell you guys like stop communicate? Obviously you guys like blocked each other, but you can just unblock so quickly. They told us to stop multiple times, but I said this in my other podcast, like, until like they yelled at us. I feel like that's when we kind of clicked. Yeah, we all agreed block and then. It kind of like clicked within us.

At least for me, I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't want to make any. when mad, you know, like, these people have a job to do, you know, like this is, we're kind of disrespecting them by doing this, we're messing up everything. We're not being authentic to the actual experience. I was ready to give my phone up. I'm like, please take it. Who was the first to break contact and unblock and reach out? I don't know. I know Killian started messaging on social media. But, I mean, it was all, he was all just a toy. Found another route. Unblocked. Yeah. That man cannot do no contact. I definitely did it too. I mean, I He came across on that show, and those scenes

kind of have a possessive side to him. I've never seen an insecure side of him before all of this. Really? No, like, he comes off very, like, confident in all of this. And he's the one with, like, that I've caught doing things. I've been caught doing things, and I'm, like, very trusting in him, obviously. So I was, like, what is going on? What do you mean you've been caught doing things?

Him? Like, I would catch him texting or, like, threatening to, like, cheat on me. or do things. What do you mean threatening to cheat on you? His friends, he'd like go back and forth and be like, oh yeah, like should I? Blah, blah, blah. And I have a long list of things.

That is wild. But then he like swears he'll never do it again. And I just enabled it. But hey, I learned my lesson. I'm single today. And you guys have all been, a lot of you were no contact leading up to the reunion. Are you guys all no contact now?

Are people? Oh, we're in this all over again. Is it? I have been talking to Blake just because I have been begging him to take accountability because, I mean, I did sign the affidavit, me not, like, I'm getting a lot of hate for signing that affidavit because for me, what his lawyer told me and what he told me, I was just signing it. That way the charges don't progress. Not that that it wasn't true. So that's what I'm confused about.

So can we, if you're comfortable, can we rewind a little bit? Oh, yeah, yeah. And just walk us through that night and what happened. We got some details at the reunion, but it quickly moved on. For sure. Would you just kind of walk us through everything that happened? Yeah. And then to the point in which it, obviously, the cops were called in this whole affidavit.

Yeah, for sure. I think people would like to hear the whole story if you're comfortable. At the reunion, they combined three stories in one. Blake did not get arrested in Charleston. And Blake did not get arrested at a house. bar. We lived on their business, which is why people are saying, oh, it was at a business. That makes sense. It was at a bar. No, it wasn't. We lived on the business in the back. Like Blake's family, they own a luxury motor home company. And so we lived in a motor home right next to his dad,

like, like super close. And so it's like a gated, whole gated thing, like, they call it the compound. And so that's where we lived. And so that night, well, that whole day from like 8 a.m. to like 4 p.m. Blake was at a.m. And, you know, just to, I guess, preface the night of the Charleston and the pouring the beer on the head, during those two times, we were still going to couples therapy and we were still trying to like, I guess, work through things even though I'd already broken up with him. And, you know, I was like, okay, maybe if me moving to Dallas, we can take some space and, you know, still work through things and maybe we just need space because I felt trapped. So I was trying to get myself out of that.

And so the night of the beer happened. He put his hands on me that night. And he lied and said that I punched him in the face. That did not happen. I have a video that shows that he pushed me first. And I would record everything. Whenever he was drinking, I would record everything. Because he would make me feel like I was insane.

And like the things that happened didn't happen. So I would record everything. Because I was like, I'm not going to make to feel crazy. And I would show him like, hey, this is what you're doing. You did this to me last night. This is not okay. And I would expect an apology.

Would he claim to not remember, like from drinking or something? No, he would never say, I don't remember. He would say, that didn't happen. You're a liar. I'm like, no, I'm not lying. And so I would literally go insane, literally go crazy. And the day of the rest, sorry, I'm all over the place. Day of the Rest, it was a Saturday.

And 8 to 4 p.m. He was at a golf tournament. He comes back. He drove wasted. He comes in stumbling. Stumbling. And I was like, wow, like you have no care for me. You just disrespect me.

It's our last night together. We were supposed to go out to dinner. He was supposed to help me pack all my stuff up. Because you were moving? I was moving out the next morning. I was going to leave at like 6 a.m. And so he went to sleep for like four-ish hours. he wakes up. I made dinner for us because I was like, you know what, let's just end on a good

note. And he comes down because there's like three steps. And he comes down and he goes, you know what, you're the fucking problem. Everyone at that golf tournament was drunk, but I'm the only one who has to come home to this toxic environment. I was like, okay, well, not everyone at that golf tournament has an alcohol problem. Not everyone at that golf tournament has a ex-fiancee leaving in the morning. and like I was like what how is this getting turned on me I was so confused and so then we start arguing we start arguing I was like I need to record it like I I'm not doing this and so I start recording and I recorded the whole thing he's screaming at me to get out get out get out get out I'm like I'm not getting out I still have to pack all my stuff up like I'm not even done packing anything and so I was

like I'm not leaving I'm not leaving and we were just going back and forth and then he was like At one point, I grabbed a hanger because I was so angry. I grabbed a hanger and I slammed it on the floor. And he goes, if you're going to throw stuff, I'm going to drag you the fuck out of here by your shirt. And that was the first thing that happened. And we're just arguing, arguing, arguing. And then he ends up putting his hands on me. He grabbed me by the back of my shirt, my sweatshirt and dragged me out of the chair and I fall to the ground.

And like my sweatshirt is like over my head. like freaking out. And I'm just like hyperventilating, hyperventilating. And then he, all throughout this audio, he leaves, comes back. He leaves, he comes back. He leaves, he comes back. At egging it on, egging it on, provoking me, provoking me, provoking me. And I'm just like, leave me alone.

I can't even tell you how many times I said, leave me alone. And he didn't. He just kept coming back, coming back. And the hanger that I threw on the floor, he picks it up. He lifts it at, he lifts it at me. and while he was putting his hands on me he's like you love this shit this is your mom you want me to do this to you this reminds you of your childhood you love this i'm so sorry i have the audio i have screenshots i have text messages i have everything i have no problem sharing that

um he admitted to putting his hands on me he admitted dragging me out of the chair i have recordings of that And I have a recording of him saying, really, Haley, me dragging you out of your chair, you're taking away from real domestic violence victims. He said that. At what point did the cops get called? So the cops got called later on. His dad called the cops on me because I was screaming, crying, and they were trying to get me gone. Mind you like, I don't know why they were trying. I had to leave in the morning.

Like, I had to leave at six days. am. And it's all a control thing. His dad's the same way. It's if you have no power, then it's a shit show. And so he calls the cops on me. Two cops show up. They know me and Blake. Both of them know me and Blake because Blake, Blake's family is from there. I went to college there. So it's a really small town. Everyone knows everyone. And she, there was the lady cop. She comes up to me and she's like, was there any domestic violence? And I was like, no, no, no. Like, I didn't do anything.

I swear to God. I swear I didn't do anything. I was like, I threw a hanger on the floor. I did do that. I was like, Blake, grabbed my sweatshirt. Me not thinking that, like, him grabbing my sweatsher was going to take him to jail. Why? Because I've been through a lot of abuse in my life.

And me, I associate getting arrested with, like, actual striking. That's how I. determined the two. And at that point, I didn't see anything wrong. So I didn't think that I was, like, going to get him in trouble. And so I was like, well, he grabbed my sweatshirt and I pushed him. And, yeah. And so then she had me show her the recording.

She starts writing down, like, time stamps. And I was like, oh, this is not good. Because, like, I've been in situations like that, obviously, growing up. And so I'll think this is not good. And at this state, are you aware that his dad called the cops on you in a way that felt like you might be in trouble? He threatened me. My dad's going to call the cops on you.

This is going to be a domestic abuse case. You want me to call the cops. I can't help but think that. And Blake was threatening me with the cops. And I was just like, I don't care because I didn't do anything wrong. I was like, what are the cops going to do to me? I'm not, yeah, I'm screaming, crying. I'm inconsolable, but I'm not doing anything.

And yeah, so then she was like, they start taking pictures of us, like, hands, face, side profiles. Like, they're like, what's that on your neck? And I was like, oh, I was, like, rubbing my neck. They take photos of that. And she comes up to me and she's like, we're taking Blake to jail for family violence contact. She's like, and I'm like, what? She gives me a paper. I'm like, what are you talking about?

I didn't press charges on him. I don't want to do that. I start freaking out. And she goes, Haley, no man can put their hands on you. Like, it doesn't matter the context. Like, you self-defended yourself. You pushed him. And I was making excuses.

I was like, well, do I go to jail too if I pushed him back? And she goes, absolutely not. And she was, like, looking at me like, like, I felt so stupid. Because I was like, wow, like, why? Like I'm making, now that I think back, like, I felt so stupid because I was making excuses. And, yeah, and then he went to jail and I was, his mom was blaming me. His dad was blaming me. His stepdad was blaming me.

His whole family was blaming me that I sent him to jail. And so I was like, I hadn't, I talked about this. I had no money. All our stuff was intermingled because we had a business together, but I got no income from. it, he would get the income from it, and I would just use the card. That's a whole other story. So I had nothing. So you actually had no access to your finances?

No. And so, yeah, so then I was like, I'll bail you out. I'm like rage texting him, like, panicking, crying. I'm so sorry. He has this whole family making you feel guilty and responsible for his arrest. Yeah, and so I was like, I'll bail you out. I have like $100 something dollars. Like, I'm calling the bail.

bond's place. I'm calling the sheriff, whatever, to see like when he was going to get out. He was in there for like a day. And then his dad ends up bailing him out. And then that's whenever he got out, he's like, I don't know what my bond conditions are. But if you really mean all the things you said, you'll help me out and you'll sign this affidavit that just says, I have the text message that says that you just want the charges dropped and you don't want it to go further. And I was like, yeah, I absolutely will do that for you because I know how the court system works. If you don't have like a victim, you don't really have a case. If there's not that sufficient evidence.

And so I was like, I'll do that for you. And the reunion was supposed to come out two months later. And that, that's important. Like, our reunion got pushed. Like, I'm sorry, we were supposed to film the reunion two months later in December. Okay. And then it got pushed. So I was like, I don't want the public to like rail you, whatever.

Like, I'll sign it. I don't care. Like, I'll do whatever. I care about you. And how much time between the arrest and all this affidavit will you sign it? The next day he got out. The day he got out. So he was quick to.

Yeah. Same day. And then after that, moved to Dallas and he completely disposed of me. And that should be noted too. He disposed of me. What do you mean? He threw away all my furniture that was in storage. He threw away all my dead grandma's things that he had in storage, knowing I had no money to get a U-Haul to go get it.

I yeah like he smeared me with all my friends and family he texted me the most raging text messages when I finally had money I had to borrow money to go in February to go or January January February to go get my stuff and the day that I told him that I was going to go get my stuff he threw it all the way did he ever threaten you with what anything. With if, like, if you... Yeah, did it ever make, you know, in this period of time, obviously he seems very

self-aware of the trouble he's potentially in and very determined to get out of it. And obviously, it's seemingly very good at making you feel guilty and responsible for his actions. So yeah, I'm just wondering in this period of time, did he ever make any type of threats? Yeah, he definitely, I don't remember the specific threats, but I know that in the text messages he sent me, He said that I can't wait to see you on the show. I know he said that. I'm going to tell everyone the type of person that you are. Haley Hendrick ends with me, called me a grifter.

I'm a fucking loser that I will never succeed in a job. A bunch of things in those text messages. It's so wild to hear that he's saying those things. while presenting on the show this uplifter who's like telling people to stand up for themselves. I guess like domestic violence is a range, right? But I never associated it with domestic violence. Like he would corner me. He would get in my face.

The night of the Charleston trip, there was nothing that happened there. But then the night that I poured the beer on him. He did push me and he grabbed me by my shoulders and pinned me on my friend's car. So I'd say that was like what I would say was the first time. There was one time that I thought was not okay and was very wrong. It was at the beginning of our relationship. This is very like kind of vulgar. So we were having sex in California and it's never something I've been into.

but he slapped me across the face. Unconsensually. Unconsensually. And I pushed him off of me. I was like, don't you ever fucking slap me like that ever again? Because anything like that, like, it's like you're in a vulnerable position. And like to me, I associate that with like what I grew up with. And so then like two days later we're still in California and we're having sex and he did it again.

and I kicked him off of me. And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, I start freaking out. He was like, well, he's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Well, whenever you said not to do it to you ever again, you kind of smirked. So I thought you were joking. I was like, what? Are you?

What? And the whole day, we argued the whole time. And he made me, like, feel like I was crazy. And we even had to talk with his dad about it because his dad was. was also on vacation with us. And his dad was like, you shouldn't have never done that, blah, blah, blah. But then, like, his dad was just like, it was like brushing it off. His dad said to who you should never have done that?

His dad told Blake, you should have never, like, hit her in the face. How did his dad become a part of a conversation about you two being intimate? Because we were arguing, like, for hours, like four hours. It was just like whenever Blake and I would argue, it would go in circles. Like he would take accountability. At some point in a conversation, someone had to tell Blake's dad we were having sex and I slapped her in the face. Yes. Because they were like, you were like sharing space.

I'm guessing if you're on vacation together, you were like. Yeah, well, we were in the same hotel. We were just in different areas. Like we were on this like cabana like arguing, I guess. And then his dad and the girlfriend, they were like doing whatever. And then they're like, what is going on? Why are you guys still arguing? And I was like, because Blake slapped me in the face.

And then Blake's like, no, no, no, no. It was during sex, like, trying to validate it. So it's sexual violence? I mean, how does that make that any different? And at the end of the day, like, some people are into that, but, like, you don't do that without asking consent. Right. And I've never said that I was into that, ever. And I've never been into that.

I'd say that was the first time. And that was, like, probably three months into our relationship. So that was very early on. So I would say, like, that was, like, considered domestic. violence, but at that point, I just thought it was wrong. I didn't, I wasn't like, oh my gosh, I'm being domestically abused. You were kind of, you didn't really know what was going on. Yeah, that's never happened to me before. Leaning up to the reunion, did you and Blake have conversations about his arrest and whether it would, you know, whether he was, because I thought it

was interesting that he literally brought this affidavit. So he seemed to be, he seemed to come prepared. Yeah, he was. So to speak. So like, did you have conversations about it? Like, well, how did it end up coming up and why do you like like what do you make of him bringing that yeah to the reunion i had blocked blake so we were not in contact but i know that production knew that he got arrested because we had these like conversations with them prior and i told them the whole story and i i didn't want to be at the reunion like i was like i don't know if i don't want to be in the same vicinity as him. And so we were kind of going back and forth without me in production. I was like, I don't know what to do because they were like, is there a restraining order? I'm like, no, but like,

I just don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable. And I ended up, I was like, you know what, fine, I'll suck it up. Because, you know, Blake is someone, like, if he has a platform, he can convince anyone of anything. He is really good. He is so good at what he does. He's. He's so good at what he does. Like, he's believable. He's very believable. Like, even on his interviews, like, I'm like, damn, like, people are really going to believe that. That's actually true. And so, um, when they brought it up, they asked, so we were made aware that there was an arrest. And then, yeah, he was ready. He brought the affidavit. There was only one affidavit to be clear. People are saying there's two. There's only one. and he had his stepdad, his friends with the chief of police,

and he got a letter from the chief of police stating that he was falsely arrested. So those were the two documents that he brought on the reunion. What is false? I mean, he was, what do you mean false? He was, he wants to say that he was falsely arrested. It was a classy misdemeanor, so he should have never gone arrested, that the girl cop was just out to get him because she knew me. but she also knew him and his family, which doesn't make sense.

I think he's just trying to, like, spin this narrative. And what do you mean you've been getting criticized for signing that affidavit, like, fan reactions? Yeah, like, I've been, oh, really, like, Haley's such a, everyone's calling me a liar because the story of the reunion doesn't add up to the story I said on 80s podcast, but that's because the reunion was clipped all in one. And I'm getting backlash for signing the affidavit because apparently, if you sign an affidavit, you're stating that it's,

that what happened was not true, and because it's not true, you don't want to pursue charges. But to my understanding, that's not what I signed. Like, the attorney literally told me, like, you're not stating this is not true. You're not saying that this didn't happen because he also listened to the recording. You're not saying this didn't happen, but you're saying that you just don't want to pursue charges and you want to help him get the case dismissed. I think as important context has happened the very next day while you were, I'm incredibly distressed

and I imagine very scared about just the general situation while simultaneously being guilted and threatened and accused by his family of being the one in the wrong. There's been a lot of like threats and trying to like use things against people

and it's like people are going to see you for who you really are out in the real world and I think like it just shows a lot like compared to like show versus how people are being on socials now. It's like, you're seeing people for who they are.

And he was basing this all over the fact that you guys had like a kiss. A kiss. Yeah, we kiss. Which, yeah, I take accountability for not going about it the right way because we are friends and I didn't say anything to her. I take accountability for that. I screwed up. There's nothing else to say about that. Killian's like threatening to like take my dad down.

And I'm like, well, just leave it be. He just hates my dad. He hates my dad. And I'm like going through what my family's going through of losing my mom, why would you want to take my dad down right now? When did killing start making these threads towards you? After like my mom's passing, he did try to like make it seem like he was going to be there for me at the reunion. He was like I will get, I'll walk you up and I'll take you out if you need a break. And I feel like he was just an instant defense mode.

And every time he promises me, he's going to take care of me, he's going to protect me. And he doesn't. He does the opposite. it. And I'm always like wanting everyone to be on the same page and be cordial. Like, even before all of this weeks ago. She's kind of been being the peacemaker. Like trying to be a mediator. I'm like, guys, like, she's going through enough. Why are you trying to drag her out? Yeah. And I try to be the peacemaker all over again. And then they're behind the scenes being like, we're taking them down. And I'm like, guys, like just move on with your life. Move on. Yeah. Are you in communication

with Killian? We were a few weeks ago. Okay, but right now you're not hearing from him. Like, he's not reaching out to you? I mean, he texted me a couple days ago. When I started hearing that him, Blake, are coming after me again. I was like, I don't want this drama at all. We just want to be like, alone. I don't want anyone to have, like, bad mental health. Like, I know he's getting a lot of heat. What he's done, everything is wrong.

But I also, like, care someone. I care about people. Like, I'm not going to, I don't want you to get death threats. Like, I feel for you. And I just wanted to check in and make sure he's okay. And it just, I think, gets taken advantage of a lot. You know, post-engagement, when did, things turned south for you and Killian?

I just don't feel like it ever really got... We went on like an engagement celebration the week after, and I think the behavior already started coming up, and it just kind of like progressively got worse when he got his injury when he tore both of his Achilles, and I was taking care of him. And I was like, I am not going to sit here and babysit anymore. Like, and he keeps trying to say,

oh, I up and left him when he was in a wheelchair, and I'm like, no, you were driving, you were still walking, maybe not fully, but like that's not my responsibility. Like I tried to get his parents and involved. Like somehow you're a bad person. He's trying to say I up and abandoned him. And I'm like, I didn't. I'm taking care of myself, most importantly.

I'm not going to deal with you anymore. Like I got his parents involved and I said he needs help. He needs this and he's trying to act like I just walked away and didn't care. No, I dealt with you for five years and I finally chose myself. In our interview with Killian, he tried to, he made a comment. about like somehow you were in the wrong because he never got closure or something. I definitely went toward an apartment and came back same day and said I'm moving out. Yeah.

I definitely did that. Well, to me, I'm like, yeah. Yeah, took it as like you just finally got this found a strength to remove yourself. Because I'm not going to give you like time to battle me and convince me to stay. He literally was telling us that you were hiding. Yeah, what was in the closet? Yeah. And I was like, is this man aware that he's telling himself?

But like maybe there was like context that was missing from him story. but can you, like, were you literally, why were you hiding from him? That whole night started with, like, I was already getting fed up with his behavior with me. I ended up going out with friends, meeting my friends for drinks, and he is just constantly tapping his fingers, derailing me to where I had to give my phone to my friend, and I said, I'm not doing this. And she was like, you're going to stay with us, like, you're going to, we're going to take you up, how fun tonight, we're going to take care of you.

And I stay out all night, and he's just tapping those fingers, saying the most, disgrace, like the most hurtful things. I definitely had like an episode of, when he does this to me, I get very depressed. And I like had an episode of like, I went through a very dark depression when he does this to me. And I did that night. I ended up coming back. But I was like, I'm not going to have you sit here and like do this to me when I get home. And he says like, oh, I called her parents and tried to call the cops to see where she was at.

But he was just degraded. me and I was like I don't want to deal with this so I like he like when I I don't even know time frame but he kept putting his my phone under his butt and I was like trying to grab it trying to grab it trying to grab it and he finally ripped it through it on the phone or on the ground and it was just front and back shattered you couldn't even like front and back couldn't do anything and he rips me by the arm throws me to the ground he's in a wheelchair by the way and I I know I'm not like okay he's in a wheelchair but like I'm not one to like Like, I can't even stand up for myself verbally.

Why can't I stand up for myself in general? I ran down to ballet and I called my mom and I was like, I need help. I can't do this anymore. I didn't think that, I didn't know they were going to show up, but I was like, I need help. My mom went to my dad and was like, we're going on, we're going there right now because she saw the, or heard and saw the hurt in me. And I went up, I don't know what at point, but I was like the only part in the closet, I knew that's where he couldn't get me because his wheelchair wouldn't fit.

Like, it wouldn't fit in there. I'm like, you're not going to get me. I'm going to sleep. I don't have a phone. Can't contact anybody, so I'm going to bed. And then my parents show up and they're like, what the heck is happening? So you had already been up in the apartment complex.

You guys had an altercation of some sort. You go back down. And then you go back up and you hide. It was so, like, traumatizing that I don't know, at what point I went to, like, the closet. Yeah. But. That says a lot.

he went to the closet that. I don't know what point and which order that happened. I'll agree to that because I was just mentally, like, out of it. But my parents show up. I did take him back again after that for a couple weeks. And he's just very good at, like, I won't do it again. I won't do it again. My parents show up.

And my dad's like, do not, like, and he just, it's a cycle. And I'm not saying, like, he's abusive because he's not. That was, I mean. Like that is a like an off time like he definitely like put his hands on me But that's not like a repeating thing that I'm gonna like make him out to be it's not I would argue maybe one times too many No it is for sure and that's me defending him again but I just I care about people I don't want him to be labeled as something Not only that but it was verbally too for sure very repeated very difficult conversations and The problem with these situations is there's this kind of emotional attachment and there's a lot of guilt

and, you know, sadly, I think these are conversations that are far too common in relationships and are very confusing for the victims in these relationships because there's a lot of gaslining and guilt and shame that comes with it. So I'm very sorry for both you ladies that you had to experience these. Are you comfortable sharing just some of the things, when you say he said some of the nastiest things in texts, what were some of those things? I'm a fat depressing bitch. Like anything you can think of.

Like he talks badly about my dad over and over. He's like, your parents don't care about you. They don't know where you live. They don't know. Your friends don't check up on you. So it's like he makes it out in my head that he's the only person I have. And like it got in my head like, oh yeah, my parents don't come down. My dad's busy guy.

Like I'm so family oriented, but he pushed me far away from my family when we moved back to Florida after Texas. And I was like, I'm going to choose you, but it's like he got into my head of like, I'm here for you. I'm here for you. They're not. And I don't even know. Like me moving back to, I, after I left him, we moved a couple times. And I ended up getting my own place in Miami by myself. But he can, like, we were trying to be cordial, trying to have like, like trying to be friends.

But I can be friends. and when I cut it off, I'm no longer emotionally connected to you. I'm not in love with you anymore. I'm sorry, like, the things you did to me, I finally was able to see my worth and cut that off, but I can be friends. He can't. He's still in love with me, so he'll take anything I say and be like, think I'm flirting.

I was like, I can't do it anymore. And eventually, like, I would visit my family in Texas. He'd just rage texts me, rage text me. And I was like, Mom, I have anxiety going back to my apartment in Miami. I ended up just torn, like hanging out. out in Dallas for two weeks to see if I liked it. I picked up, went straight back to Miami, packed my things, and moved in a week because I was like, I have so much anxiety, even being in the same state as him. I was like, I can't do it anywhere. I need to go back to family and where

my roots are. Thankfully, and I was able to get close with my family again. As you're telling the story, like hearing yourself talk, you, you know, because I know, just moments ago, you were trying to be like, I don't think he's abusive. I don't think, but do you, but do you, do you think maybe like he is? Is what? Has an abusive tendencies? I don't know what the technical term is. There's no like, no doubt about that.

But just describing like how unsafe you felt in this man's presence. Oh, for sure. For sure. The isolation of your family and friends and stuff. Absolutely. That's why I'm like dodged a bullet for sure. I know my wife couldn't be here obviously because, you know, she's just postpartum, but she has been very outspoken about, you know, past relationships she's had, and it's sad. You know, just how common, you know, these relationships are where, you know, at the time,

I think there's just so many women out there who don't want to believe they found themselves in a situation like this. They're, you know, they get shamed, you know, it's, they get shamed and guilted and they don't know who to tell. And it's, it is scary how, how common it. it is and just how, what's the word I'm looking for, just, yeah, just how isolating it can feel where it's, you almost feel like you are, you know, you're almost, I imagine there were moments of you, both you women kind of being more angry at yourselves than your partners in these situations. I couldn't believe our own realities because they're convincing you that this is what it is.

and that's almost like why we bonded when we kind of reconnected. We went through the same exact situation after the engagements. What do you make of their behavior now? Because hearing this story, it is shocking to me to see them. I think I saw like some kind of fucking post where they were like, they're doing some sort of appearance together or like some bar appearance. Like they're trying to capitalize on this. Who's bringing them?

Or maybe they're arranging it? I don't know. Oh my gosh. But what do you make of this kind of caval, like, are they just trying to pretend this? Like, what's, I don't know, it seems so shocking. I think that they're trying to convince everyone else that we're the problem. And we played a part in the problem, but I would not say that we are the denominator of everything. I think they're trying to blame and not take accountability.

Agreed. And because of that, like, they're trying to capitalize on everything of the opportunity, you know, just being on camera and going on podcast and, you know, trying to save face, I feel like. That's kind of what I've gotten from it. Yeah. I don't think any of us are perfect in this situation. Yeah. We've all, like, quite a part of it. Blake is very upset, like, communicated that he's so angry that, like, we are going on podcast and no one's out.

asking him and that he's getting blackballed and like everything's about an image. Yeah. Not thinking about like this is our real lives. Yeah. They're not thinking about that. They're thinking about image, image, image. And it's affected us and we have every right to talk about it. You know, like I'm I'm done protecting somebody who just lies and doesn't take accountability.

I'm done. Yeah. We're washing our hands clean, right? Yeah. I just hope we can just like move on from this, which we've been. probably won't. Why do you say that? Within ourselves, I feel like we'll be able to move on from this, but I feel like in the public. In the public, we won't just because I know like another side is going to keep getting told. Lies are going to keep getting told and I just like, I'm just so

tired. Sure. And obviously, like, there's nothing you can do to control like public perception. But I guess more importantly, you know that these men will obviously listen to this or certainly hear about it. They, they're aware that you're here. Yeah. And you both kind of, and you both kind of talked about there's been communication with both these men in the, in the recent past. Are they currently blocked? Or, or it sounds like you guys are both nervous that you both might communicate with them. I'm definitely. Done. I'm scared. But yeah, I'm done. Like, I, the only, like I said, the only reason why I was in communications was for the accountability.

because of the affidavit and everything and just like seeing him lie over and over and over again, it was like driving me insane because I was like, I'm scared. Like I, and you know, it's very easy to like go through your comments and be like, holy crap. Like no one, at least it feels that way, obviously. Like no one is believing anything because of the stories that he's telling and he's just good with the camera. Like I don't, I'm not as eloquent as he is. I guess or whatever or charismatic and I don't care to like put on a show put on a face I don't care but I feel like that's the difference like he's very good at convincing people and that's I was scared

so I was like trying I guess to be on his good side so he could take accountability because he was feeding me behind the scenes hey I'm going to take accountability I'm going to tell you know my story but I'm going to take accountability for the things I've done to you and he was trying to get back together with me. When? Since the reunion. Post reunion? Post reunion?

I'm like, no, no, no, no. I have text messages. I have recordings. I've said no every single time. And he was like trying to, this is also good to know that he was trying to get back together with me when I kept saying no, no, no. He got angry and he was getting angry and he was going on his podcast and he was lying.

And then. What do you mean he has a podcast? Or on his interviews, I'm sorry. Okay. And then he went to Ashley and was trying to convince her to pretend to be in a relationship with him. Oh, yeah. What? Yeah, he called.

So I was out and I haven't spoken to him at all. Like, the only time me and him have spoken since the show was when he gave his condolences about my mom. Yeah. Haven't talked since. Yeah. I'm out with like, or I'm at dinner and I get a text being like, oh, hey, like, can you, are you, do you have time for a call? And I got called her immediately. I was like, what's your man?

Like, what does he do? And I take the call and I'm with Haley and I'm like... No, she drove to my house from dinner. Yeah, I was like, I'm not... So I could record it. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not doing this like... Yeah. Because he's unpredictable.

I don't care. This is pre-reunion. Post. Post. Post. Post. And he calls me and he's like, hey, Ashley, what do you think about pretending to be in a relationship after all this so we can get on podcasts?

That's how like, he thinks he's a producer. And that's like, it doesn't show on this, like, on our stuff. season. Which is crazy. But that's how it was behind the scenes constantly. Well, I know it feels like, I know because the internet, it's so easy to feel like it's against you, but I hope you women know that these men aren't as believable as you fear that they are.

And I just don't think that is the overall public response. I know it's easy to feel that way, but I hope you know that that is not the case. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you for giving us, like, the opportunity to say. our stories, yeah.

Well, I just want to thank you women for just speaking up because, you know, this, this, this show is predominantly listened to by women and like we were just talking before. This is sadly, you know, too common of incursance and in relationships. And I think what's really important about the story that both you women are telling is that it's not, you know, it's, it's always like the worst version is what, it's, it has to be striking or it has to, there has to be, you know, marks left or things like, you know, like it doesn't have to be that for it to be abusive and dangerous and wrong. And there's, I think, these types of relationship dynamics and these types of men

who treat their partners this way is far too common. And I think it is very scary for women to come forward and speak up for all the reasons that you women shared and for all the things that these men seem to be so good at and I hope that you are giving anyone listening who finds themselves or recognize themselves in the stories that you women are telling to maybe to see the relation for what it really is. To that end, you know, what are some, when you reflect back on these relationships, what are some signs that you now are more aware of that you could maybe speak to the audience if, you know, advice to any women out there that if this is happening, if your partner

is saying or doing things like this, if your friends are warning you, you know, what would you have to say to encourage them to maybe be more honest about what's going on in the relationship

than they maybe want to be? Definitely recognizing the red flags early. Like I always say my biggest red flag is ignoring them, but some of those red flags is just like,

I mean, take things for face value. Someone's going to show you exactly who they are, listen to it, listen to your gut, listen to your family. Everyone around you

will know. Like for in my instance, I'm blind and in love and not listening to those things, but the people around me are telling me, and you should listen to everyone around you because they have your best interest at heart always. Yeah, I would back back off of that. Like, if your friends and family, if your friends and family are telling you one thing, that's true. For me, I feel like I was more protective. And if you're embarrassed to tell your friends and family something and you're scared to tell your friends and family,

that's a huge sign. When you start questioning yourself and like your thoughts, your reality, that's another sign. Absolutely. Yeah, I'd say like those are the two main signs, I would say. And if you feel like you have to like, let's say like when your reality is feeling questioned to where you feel like you have to like record, for example, record it so that you can understand it properly because your mind is so messed up. That is a huge red flag because I did it too with Killian. I would have to record it because he'd make me feel crazy and blame it on me the next day.

And I'd listen to it the next day and I'm like, what? You should not have to record. You shouldn't have to do that. Like you should be able to trust your person and have a calm conversation, even in like an argument. Like, yeah, things get heated. No relationships are perfect. But it should never get to the point where you're like screaming inconsolably or like, yeah, like anything like that. it's toxic. It's toxic. It's not healthy. And you should also not making excuses. You know, like, oh, the good is way better than the bad. But like, do you guys love each other in the bad? That's what's super important. You have to love each other and respect each other in the bad.

Yeah. And that person should be your safe space, not the one making you feel your worst. Agreed. At all. And if they're not bringing out the best in you. Yeah. Do you still have all these recordings of him? I do. What do you've done with them? I just have them. She brought them just in case today. I brought them. I have no problem showing it.

No problem. I'm done. I want to, why my hands clean of this? And I just want to be left alone by Blake. Is there part of you that wants to show it because you feel like people aren't believing you? Yeah, I do. Because, like, I know what happened that night. I know what happened that night.

when you go through something like that, you don't forget it. And I also have photographic memory, which is why I go into, like, stupid details. But I, like, when I tell a story, I play it in my head because that's just how I remember things. And the way I remember in my head is exactly, like, what the audio is. I mean, I don't think we're going to air it, but are you comfortable sharing it with Susie and I? Yeah. Did you say you also recorded the conversation where he asked you to be his big girlfriend? I have it. Yeah.

I'm so sorry, guys. I'm so sorry. I was disturbing. I mean, I believe you guys. Do you want people to hear this? I do, but I also don't want that to be like, like, my identity because I'm trying to grow from that, if that makes sense. What do you mean your identity? I don't want to be stuck in that, like, I have healed so much from that relationship, and I,

again have no problem airing it out. I just don't want that to be my identity. Like I don't want it to be like Haley was domestically abused, which is true. It's true. But I also want the other side of it. Like I have grown so much and I will never go through that again. And like the whole

book shit is like fucking rude and kind of disrespectful because like I have put in the work and I want to be you know, kind of like there for other people who have been through that, you know, because it hasn't started with just Blake. Like, I've been through a lot of my life. And, you know, it's just like for that to be thrown also in my face, it's just, I don't know. I mean, it's a disgusting recording.

It's hard to watch. And I don't know. I can acknowledge that we listen to it and it's disgusting and very triggering. I also worried, I don't, you know, at the same time, it's, you know these are these are tough conversations of an important ones to have but you you really are a survivor and and i hope that you recognize that and and and i hope if anything i hope that's the part of you that you recognize more than anything that you've found the strength to finally for sure hopefully get through it but that is that is really disturbing i mean he's a he's a

dangerous and bad person there's no there's no way around that oh and to be clear when we first invited you and Blake, we had no idea about any of our rest. And as soon as we found out about it, we changed course and stopped considering as of having him on. And again, disgusting that he's blaming you for stuff like that. Like, I think the world works in mysterious ways for us to like wife swap and us to like learn about each other's partners and then still be able to like get through this after the fact. Because we truly did deal with the same person. Twice. Yeah.

Do you recognize your relationship in Killian in those voice? Oh, yeah. I have recordings just like it. That's how we bonded. It's because I have recordings of Killian just like that. Yeah. I'm really sorry. Thank you for being like vulnerable and talking about it, sharing with us.

And just in general, being vulnerable going on the show and stuff, it takes a lot of courage. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Again, I just can't say it enough. I'm so sorry that you guys had to go through this. More importantly, I'm glad that you've found the strength to stand up for yourself, and I do think you're doing a positive thing to speak on this, and I know it's scary,

and sadly, the way the Internet works, and we've become more aware on the show of things like Darvo and how abusers will attack and go after their victims, and it's obviously, it has never been easy for any victims to come forward, and sadly, it probably will never will be. Yeah. It's strength like you women are showing today that is going to quite honestly, like, save lives and help a lot of women and in these very sadly more far too common situations that exist. I appreciate you guys for listening to us. And allowing to hear it all the way through too. Yeah.

At the reunion, I feel like we tried to do that and it just couldn't get across. What do you mean? Like she couldn't get through like her full story of how. happened. I couldn't get through my story of how it happened. So like y'all allowing us to like listen all the way through is like it means a lot. Yeah. Well, thank you again. Thank you guys for listening. We will put out some maybe information about resources. Obviously this episode is certainly triggering for probably too many people. But hopefully if this is something you guys recognize in your relationship, listen to your people.

seek help and we will put out the appropriate resources. Thanks for coming on ladies. Thank you guys.