The Viall Files - E1166 - I Have a Boyfriend But Want to Date Women | Ask Nick

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Ask Nick edition! Our first caller has a friendship breakup that's consuming her life. Our second caller asks how to navigate her first relationship as a 28-year-old. Our third caller has a boyfriend but wonders if she's interested in women. Subscribe for more dating advice, relationship drama, and unfiltered Ask Nick calls every week. "Everything has a cost..."   Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  ARE YOU A MESS BECAUSE OF YOUR SITUATIONSHIP? OR JUST IN GENERAL? Email [e-mail] with all your relationship questions and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content featuring updates from your favorite callers? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + HERE: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Article: Go to https://article.com/viall for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Minky Couture: Visit https://minkycouture.com and use code VIALL at checkout for 50% off all full priced blankets. Mint Mobile: Go to https://mintmobile.com/viall. Quince: Go to https://quince.com/viall to get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Whatnot: Download Whatnot today and get $20 off your first purchase. **To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  Timestamps: 00:00 - Caller One 32:24 - Caller Two 52:28 - Caller Three Episode Socials:  @viallfiles  @nickviall @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

How's it going? Hey, this is Michelle. I am 34 and I'm in a heteronormative relationship. I think I might be gay, but I'm wondering how much that really, truly matters. When you say how much do you think that matters, what do you mean? I just mean... I'm Rachel. I'm 35 and my friendship breakup is consuming my life.

Oh, okay. Tell me about it. So just to give you a little bit of background, I have a male friend, long time friend. Over a decade, we met at work probably about 12 years ago now. The friendship has always kind of had its ups and downs, but at the end of the day has always been a very good friend to me. There's been different situations in the past where we have had like little falling out, but we've always like kind of became friends again. Is this male friend gay or straight? He is straight. Okay. And why was, has it only been a male friendship with drama and not anything past that? Good question. I feel like the drama hasn't necessarily

come from my end of things. I'm a pretty late back person, but he seems to be a little bit more sensitive or emotional about things. I don't know if like an example would be helpful. Potentially. Well, can I ask a couple questions before you give me the backstory? Sure. Are you dating? I'm married. Oh, you're married. Okay. And are you, too, are you also straight?

Yes. Okay. So you're married to a, so why, why? So yeah, that's why, why is this other man such a big part of your life? Okay. So I should say like his, our friendship has been very deep rooted in just, I guess, time. But the reason I feel like it's consuming my life is the effect that it's having on our other friends. specifically his wife, who is one of my best friends, and our entire friend group.

So that's where more of the question comes from, not necessarily that his friendship solely consumes my life. Sure. No, that makes sense, but it's just like unique that you're both married. And that your relationship was as intense as it was that, well, one, it required a falling out. of any kind. Mm-hmm. And then that falling out is having such an effect on you.

Like, where is your husband and his wife in this equation of this drama? So my husband is very much can't understand it. Like, can't understand his, like, my male friend's point of view. Him and his guy friends are just very much guys, guys. And is your husband friends with him? Through me. They never really formed like a, we would hang out in a friend group, but my husband would never hang out with him alone.

And his and your friend's wife, were you friends with her or him first? I was friends with him first. I met his wife about five years ago, but we instantly hit it off, had been best friends, asked her to be the matron of honor in my wedding, like very, very close friendship. Okay, interesting. All right. Now, give me kind of like what,

explain this friendship to me because it is obviously unique. So I guess our like, I'll just tell you about like maybe our most recent falling out and the reason why. Sure. My husband and I, fiance at the time,

get engaged. We go into that fall. We have a few traumatic things happen in our lives that didn't allow us to maybe show up as a friend that, maybe I would have been. So like my dad passed. My husband's sister passed. And I felt a lot of outreach and love and support from a lot of people in my life. Including him in certain times. But I think this led me to become even closer with his wife because I was focusing on the wedding to not focus

on my dad. So she started to even like know more about my life the day to day. And I think, well, I know that that upset him. He was finding out that I got a new job. He was upset that you were getting closer with his wife. And he saw me with some of our other friends, all girlfriends. We have a very close group of girls that's four of us that do a lot of things together. So he told me that he was upset that he was hearing about my life through some of our mutual friends, including his wife.

You know, there were a couple examples that he gave me about... Like St. Patrick's Day came around and we had plans. I had made plans with my girlfriends. He was included in those. I had decided at the last minute to change my plans to do something with my husband and his friends. He felt like that wasn't the right choice to make and became upset with me about that. And ultimately, it led to us having a conversation where I had told him, like, I have a lot on my plate right now. I feel like I can't show up for you. as the friend that you're wanting me to be. I've never, like, been in that situation before with any of my other friends, but, like, maybe we're just not compatible as friends right now. How do you take that? Okay. And in that moment, I felt like it went okay.

I felt like maybe on his side, he kind of agreed almost. Is he usually dramatic? Listen, like, I don't know how else to say this other than, the fact that like this is not a normal relationship. Now normal doesn't necessarily, not normal doesn't mean bad. It's just not normal. And by not normal, I mean like,

sounds like your relationship with your husband, it's healthy and, you know, you got a lot, like you said, you got a lot going on. Do you have kids? No. No kids? Not yet. And like, like when you get married,

your partner is that person, that person who really, quite frankly, has the, is allowed. to require and consume your most of your emotional energy when it comes to the building relationships and prioritizing relationships and being considerate and thoughtful and going out of your way to consider the feelings of others. I would say my wife takes up like 98% of that. When you know versus like friends. You know, obviously the child, our kids is a big part of our lives, but we do, you know. And so the fact that he has these demands of how you're supposed to show up.

And when one of those people is his wife, like, and he's getting jealous of his own wife that you've, you're not quite as close, but like you were, he wants you to like, again, you have a crisis in your family. Father passes. And he wants you to be like, I want her. to think about how how she's going to tell Matt. You know, like, that's just kind of selfish and weird. It doesn't make sense. I don't know. It's unique.

I mean, even like, even for figuring about gender, if any of your girlfriends were kind of being this particular, you know, it would be, it would not be inappropriate for anyone to be like, I'm sorry, I'm married. I just like, I, you know, I want to be a good friend. And I'm not saying when you're married, you can't be a good friend to anyone. I'm just saying that, like, it's just meaningful relationships require a lot of commitment and sacrifice and time. And, you know, you can only spread yourself so thin.

And he seems to be demanding a lot of your focus when you, in fact, have a handful of friends. And it sounds like those friendships play a nice little role in your life. And you also have a marriage and they have families. and it's just kind of like, why are you being forced to worry about this? Agreed. Anyway, how is your relationship with his wife right now? So I think this is where

maybe like seeking your advice on it too would be helpful is since this happened, I have found myself in a weird place with some of my friends, like an example recently. So his wife's birthday was this past weekend. He planned a dinner to go out, get drinks, you know, a fun like Saturday afternoon and night and like will not invite me to anything. So like if they are the planners of an event, I won't be invited to it.

So like she had to plan something outside of those plans for this Friday so that the four of us girls can do something together for her birthday. And then... So, so just to be clear, like, it sounds like you guys are totally cool and she's acquiescing, or I don't, am I making up words, acquiescing to her petty husband who doesn't want to invite you. So she will do the thing that her husband does for her, but she still wants to spend some time with you for her birthday. She'll, she'll plan that so that she can spend time with you.

So he says to her that because they're in a marriage, she has to be loyal to his feelings of our him and I's friendship being at odds. I mean, sure. I think. Which is, I just like interesting that he's, he can, he's not wrong, but he's, he's comfortable stating that kind of like demand about a marriage and the, like, that there's an expectation when it comes to marriages. But this is now like outreaching into some of our other friends.

So like, for example, our other friend who does happen to be his wife's brother, but like we have very long-term friendships together. His birthday was a few weekends ago, and same thing. Her husband demands loyalty from him too, so meaning that I could not go to any of his birthday plans. And to be clear, this all started because he felt like you didn't prioritize him as much as he expected you to. And you said, like maybe we're,

just not compatible as friends? Yeah, but I will say I got to a point of finally, like, trying to set a boundary with him based on years of these ups and downs, of trying to, like, keep our friendship at a very healthy place, like, genuinely. How did this friendship start? How did this friendship? Like, did you guys ever, like, hook up or, like, make out or anything? No.

No. Oh, we met at work. Is he like in love with you? Like, it's just what, like, what's, like, what's going on? It's just, it's weird. It's weird. Mm-hmm. So.

What does his wife think? I think she just is like, that's who he is as a person. Like, he, he is someone who in history has no problem cutting off people and then shuts it off and is done with them. They're dutch it in. That's how he's always been. He's done that to his brother. Oh, my God.

Yeah. So I think her position is I knew what I married. Okay. Well, good for her. Outside of the annoyance that you're being uninvited to things, it sounds like no one really agrees with how he's going about this. Is that fair to say? It's fair to say, but I don't think anyone is willing to, like, stand up for it.

Well, his wife is, in a way. She's still, like, hanging out with you. still going out of his way to maintain the friendship. You know, it's annoying and inconvenient. True. More for her. I bet you had more fun at that little foursome get together than you would have at this dinner that he was dictating.

I guess we'll find out on Friday. Oh, you're about to have it. I bet you, right? I don't know. I mean, I think just to like take it one step further is I feel like I'm in a place where I am. looking at these friendships and wondering, one, I kind of want them to like stand up for me and say something. Like they're not his wife. They're his friends. My friends too. And then on the other hand,

like, do I try to reach out, take a high road, try and mend the friendship with him? But at like, what cost is that? I think I struggle with that. Like, I think he's made. And so I got engaged. My dad passes. I'm planning a wedding. I feel like, sorry. He just made like a really hard and a happy time of my life even harder. And about him.

And about him. And I feel like he kind of took a support system I really needed. And I don't know if I can like forgive him for that. Why is he, why is he such a support? system. Not him, but just everyone else involved. Like I felt like, so his wife took a step back in the wedding and asked to like only be a bridesmaid because of the pressure she was getting from him at home. Yeah, listen, he sounds pretty toxic. I don't, I like this guy is, I don't know, he sounds all over. I mean, there's something going on there. It's super weird. It's this weird. But like you said,

I mean, we're talking about a guy who's, I don't know, doesn't talk to his brother. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just, I'm a little nervous. You know, I just, like, listen, I'm not telling you you should. It sounds like your friendships are going to, I think right now you have been going through a lot, obviously, right? And I think, I'm sure all of that just feels really intense. And this is just, it's probably consuming in a way that just, you know, I don't know, in some ways it might be an escape from, it's probably,

been in some ways a distraction as much as it's been frustrating and annoying. Sure. At this stage in your life, with the fact that you are engaged or you're about to get the wedding hasn't happened, right? You're engaged to be married? No, we got married last October. Oh, you got married? Okay.

So you're newly married. Use this as a sign to invest in your marriage and invest in the friendships that support your marriage and don't have the drama. and let those other friendships and these friendships that kind of like are him adjacent, they'll play themselves out. You're right. You want friends who are going to show up for you and defend you. Now that being said,

I would pull back from like an expectation of like it's not worth anyone's time to go head to head with this guy. And while I'm sure it will feel nice that people would defend you, it's just not worth anyone's time to try to, his own wife finds it to be point. to try to argue with him about positions he makes that where he's just like I'm you know I'm he's clearly stubborn he's set in his ways he like he's he's argumentative by nature that clearly is a part of them his who does this for I don't know his own drama I just like what good is going to come of it and I'm guessing these friendships are all relatively in your age relatively in your age group right right so there's probably various of newly married people like you people who are young parents

You know, a variety of people who are in a stage of life who have outgrown this type of friendship drama that we've all experienced in our 20s. And so I think you should just see it that way as a sign of a time to move forward and move on, move on from him. You know, then you'd be great. You're, you know, just try not to be, like, do not make this dinner about him, that's for sure, if you can. Yeah.

I don't think there's anything to salvage with this guy. Listen, if anything, when you said that, he's a, he's a drama queen. And I think, like, this is, this is a small note. But your statement of, which is not necessarily untrue, but your statement of, maybe we're not friendship compatible,

was probably a little dramatic. And what I mean by that is like, you, it was probably honestly an almost a nicer way of saying the truth, but the truth is, is like, your expectations of me, at this stage of my life are quite frankly ridiculous. Like, I don't, like, and it was selfish of you to expect me to prioritize your feelings

at a time of great loss of me. And like right now, and like, I value our friendship. But like, I have a lot of things going on. And I have a lot of friends. And like, you are expecting me to show up to you. Like my husband is expecting him to show up to him. And like, I don't know. That might just be not worth it too because I doubt he would handle that.

But that's a little bit more nuanced and specific than like, I don't think friendship compatible, which is also kind of true. I wish I could have said it better. But like, I don't know if that would have changed anything, you know, because honestly none I'm saying out loud, it's a little harsher than saying we're not friendship compatible because you're kind of calling them out on unrealistic expectations of a friend. And I just don't think you can discount on the fact that he is a straight man who is where you do a woman and you're a straight woman married to a man.

And it's just like not normal to have those types of expectations of a friend. Like even if it was a girlfriend, you're, again, you're not that you can have friendships, but like to the degree that you're supposed to prioritize their feelings in a time of law. I mean, that's this, that's this called being selfish. I think a girlfriend doing this to you would be weird. And the fact that it is a male friend, it's weird. It's just weird. He has unreasonable expectations of you at this stage in your life.

And I don't know where it's coming from. the fact that he is a person who cut out his brother. Do you know why he cut out his brother? To be honest, and I don't. He doesn't really talk about it. So that relationship, I don't entirely know. But there have been other people along the way that I've had like a front row seat for him, like different friends. He's cut off out of his life.

What were those reasons? Do you know? So our one friend, we actually all worked together. at the same time. So he was a mutual friend of mine as well. He cut him off about two years ago, now I want to say. They had all gone to New York City together. And his friend had got too drunk on off by himself, kind of caused a ruckus. I don't know. I wasn't there. But whatever happened while they were in New York City, he came home and said that it wasn't a friendship. He on it anymore.

I don't know if that's not like the most specific example, but there was, it's not only him, but I feel like sometimes as his wife's best friend, I've seen him do that to her with her friends too. So like one of her friends had made a comment to her husband after a kickball game one night about planning like a beer Olympics and inviting someone they went to high school with. This person that went to high school with them had previously had a relationship with his wife a long time ago, decades ago, but was a friend of that person still. Come to find out, she didn't even mean to say, like, there were two people in their life

that he assumed it was that person. Long story short, she was in their wedding and no longer was in their wedding anymore for attempting to invite over someone who had previous relations with his life. There wasn't even a conversation? Well, she had conversations with her about it, but no, no follow-up conversation between the friend and him. I mean, listen, this guy's fired. I think you just got to be glad. I mean, honestly, I don't, what value is this guy bringing into your life other than drama?

I know. And I see that and I think that's why I got to a point that I did. But like I do know that there have been times throughout our friendship where like I have needed a friend and he has been one to me. No doubt. I mean, no doubt. I'm sure he has. Yeah. I mean, someone like him who's that intense, I'm sure has many examples with a lot of people, how he shows up for people. And listen, I'm, I'm, I expect. And like I, I, I expect. I, like, I, I, I, I, I pride myself in actually being loyal when I, and I think that a lot of people in this world claim to be loyal and aren't loyal. He's a bridge too far. He's, he uses loyals. He has a way to control people in the man.

I don't know. He's got to grow up a little bit. He needs to chill out. Anyway, but like outside of that, just like your specific dynamic with him doesn't make any sense. And it's also just like wasting your energy in time. And it's not a friendship where like a friendship is a,

a, is a two, it's, you have, you talk things through, you know, sometimes, I don't know even what this is. This is a weird, like, rooted in, this all started by him being frustrated at how you, how he found out about your individual trauma is if you owed him something. That's just crazy, crazy. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with you on that. I think it's just navigating how to move forward like this it's been like a year i feel like i'm i'm one of my groomsman you know i don't know we're busy people so i don't like i don't want to talk to him maybe a couple times a month maybe and that's um i text him out a couple weeks ago he's like i broke my ankle like oh shit how'd you do that and then he didn't respond and i forgot about it because i'm busy

and then a couple weeks later i was like checking it didn't answer. Then I was like, oh, well, okay. Then a couple days later, I think I called again, didn't answer. Certainly there was like, man, did I just wanna piss him off or something? I don't know.

Silly thought, but whatever. And then we just, I don't know, then I text them again. We just, we're busy. My point of telling this stupid story is like he broke. and like, I couldn't imagine him being like, either of us making a thing of it. Like, if your friend was one of us,

it sounds like he would have been like upset that I reached out to him and he didn't tell me right away that he broke his ankle or I had a fight you know it's like or that he didn't respond to me when I asked him

well what happened you know as if I would have somehow to be personally it's crazy it's ridiculous it's I mean absurd it's absurd

or if he was the one who broke his ankle that I didn't like drive over there with soup or I don't know like immediately that's absurd it's absurd it's absurd behavior for an adult relationship.

I think that's why the conversation didn't go entirely well because I'm taking in why he's feeling the way that he is and I truly can't understand it because I just don't feel that way about friendship. Yeah, no. I mean, but, you know, like you said, there's a history of this with him. He has a track record. It's just your turn. And quite frankly, I, you know, the thing,

that you're having a hard time with is you're trying to make sense of something that just doesn't make sense. And the solution to that is accept that he doesn't make sense. See him for who he really is. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm not saying he's some of psychopath. I'm just saying he's a drama queen. And he's a little selfish. And he weaponizes loyalty in a way that, you know, serves him more than other people. And he calls that, you know, his, and he has unreasonable expectations of what people owe him to be his friend. because there's just no way he has that bad of a picker including his brother of like people

who can he just like that's not friendship to just people make mistakes and he just cancels them. What? Like it's weird. So you know you can mourn the loss a little bit I would be glad that you're still friends with his wife and if anything

that's the only thing you really need to be concerned is like this is another friendship you value and but the best way to do that is to not play into the drive drama, not just, you know, just be friends with her. Just don't bring it up. Um, don't bring him up. Try to separate that friendship. Um, you know, invest in your, your new marriage and, and all the other friends. And as far as the other friendships that feel like the times you get feel excluded, I get that it's annoying, but try not to let it like really compound and, and consume you.

It'll, it'll work itself out, you know. know everyone my guess is is just prioritizing like again like this is not worth anyone's time so unfortunately in that case the adult man who's acting like a child will tend to get his way because most people are just like I don't have the energy to to you know the people you want to stick up for you it's like really I mean you know what I'm saying like it's it's so absurd that like it's honestly worth not worth her time you know and it's not that you're not worth it It's just more like, what are they supposed? They're trying, like, you want them to argue with crazy.

A guy who has a track record of being insanely stubborn and his own wife doesn't think she can change his mind. So, you know? Very. This, yeah, you need to be glad. This is, he's such, this is crazy. Who acts like this? Is he, like, short?

Yeah. Okay. There's had to be something. There, just had to be something. How tall? I'm going to say 5-7. Okay, he's short. Isn't that crazy?

He's making up for something. Looks like his height. That's funny. It just doesn't make sense, you know? Like, you have to look at some of the other variables when you can't make sense of, you know, and I don't know, this guy. Yeah.

And maybe that's why it does consume so much of my brain because I am trying to make sense of something. that my husband can't make sense of my other friends outside of this friend group can't make sense of like it's been hard to get advice on how to move forward when I can't figure out what the core problem is I guess you seem like a lovely person and just like talking you for 20 minutes it seems absurd that like it would it would necessitate avoiding like distancing other people from you watch out for her it's just like

she can't come to the party I'm like crazy yeah I'm sorry you're going to this I mean it's honestly comical but uh in a hilarious study is short um I don't know why I guess that I don't know it's like what is this guy

what's going on inside of him it's has there's some insecurity something that he just this is this way of making him feel more powerful and in control of his life. I don't know. Some kind of, I don't know, I'm not a therapist, but something going on there. I don't know.

Yeah, that, that's recently been something that came up with a friend of mine actually. Like I had said that I feel like at this point, like he's getting some kind of like ego boost out of the fact that like I'm not coming to these things. Like he does have that control over his wife, his brother-in-law. and, you know, whatever else is going on. But, I don't know. I mean, I want the world to give more love to the short kings out there, but it's guys like this that make it so impossible, you know,

because I don't know, you know, when I get mad about stuff like this, I'm always like, well, at least I'm tall, you know. I'm just kidding. That's so funny. I hear that, though. That's crazy. I'm just floored by this. I need an update.

I don't know, you know, down the road of, of, it's just, you're going to, just, you know, I hope you don't read the comments of your call, but like, you're going to get, you'll probably get some people who think your story's bullshit because it sounds so crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I promise. This is my real life. And it's definitely taking an emotional toll. So it is all real.

How tall is your husband? 5.11. Okay. Yeah. That would be this, you know. I mean, you just don't find these types of intense friendships with married people, but your husband was probably like, I don't know, he's six inches shorter than me. What do I have to worry about?

Why do I care? Sure, go to your friends. All right, we bring me to the Shark Kings. There's a lot of short kings out there. This guy just ruins it for everybody. He really does because it's like my other friends are like telling me like, we wish we were here, like, we wish this or we want that. And it's just a lot.

Don't, like, honestly, that's the part you need. Don't give into that drama. Don't even, again, you guys aren't 22 anymore. You've got your, you're 35, you're newly married. This is an exciting time of your life. This is not the time for friendship fucking drama. You know, that's what you're doing your 20s when you don't have kids to worry about. I know you don't have kids yet.

I don't even know if that's on your plate. things you want to do. But like, that's things that like when, like, after you're married for 15 years and maybe you guys are sick of each other, which I hope never happens. Then it's like, this is not the time to be wasting your energy on this bullshit. Like focus on a lot of the good stuff that you have, specifically your new marriage and all the dreams that you guys have as a couple.

That is where all your energy you should go, not this bullshit. I think I needed to hear that. Yeah, that's definitely all this other jibber jabber aside, That is, that's, that's the quick word of advice that you should really take. Okay. All right. Good luck out there. Thank you.

All right. Bye-bye. What's up, everybody? Don't forget that all Vile files, post content is ad-free. Plus, for all you ask, Nick listeners out there, your update specials are ready and waiting for you. I know you are very interested on the follow-up calls. What has happened to these people if they heard my advice?

Did it help them? Did it hurt them? Has their life changed? Well, you can find out on Update Plus, and you can get Update Plus behind ViowFiles Plus. So go to VialFiles.com to sign up. You will be glad that you did. How's it going? Hi, I'm Bella.

I'm 28, and I just got my first boyfriend, I think. And I need your help with navigating all of the first. All right. Well, congrats. What do you mean you think? Well, he did mention on a phone call with his friend that he was at his girlfriend's house when he was here the other day. but he has not like officially asked me

and to me I feel like that needs to be addressed first but I don't think well okay step one I don't think you need to make a whole meal out of that conversation I think you can make it like a quick joke

oh so I'm a girlfriend nice to hear happy yeah you know it's like I don't think it's a we need to talk and make it heavy and serious how many serious relationships

has he had I'm aware of two, but I'm not exactly sure the total amount. Right, right, right, right. Like, how inexperienced are you? Like, is this your first, like, official boyfriend? Or is this, like, the first official, like, anything? I guess a little bit of both. I will say last year I had kind of like a relationship.

I'm counting it as a relationship just because the way it ended definitely felt like a breakup to me. Sure. Yeah. But that was more long distance. and so it was a bit tougher to kind of identify. Okay. What about just like casual dating?

I mean, without getting like, I don't know. I've been on dates, but I'm not like hooking up with people. Are you a virgin? Yes. Okay. That's what I was kind of trying to get at. Yeah. Is that a religious choice?

It has been, but more recently I feel like I'm kind of more focused on just finding the right person. Okay. rather than waiting. This is just like a personal opinion, which I'm sure many would disagree with. But I think you are someone that a lot of people would relate to, which is like it started it as a religious thing.

And then like, I don't know, like, you know, I don't know where you are in your religious journey, but, you know, it's a journey. Yeah. And so, you know, and then now it's like, now it's less about religion, but you still want it to be special. And I guess what I'm saying.

And this might sound crazy. is it doesn't need to be special. In fact, if I'm you, the only thing as far as, like, it's nice. I mean, I'm not saying if you can have special, great. But the only thing if I'm you that I would care about is making sure it's safe. And as long as it's safe, you know,

it's best to just get that shit out of the way. Because, like, special or not, it's going to be, you know, an experience and a little awkward and uncomfortable and like it's not supposed to be amazing and I you know what I want for you is to not put unnecessary pressure on yourself whenever that moment happens um because there will be plenty more moments and like it's just it's one of these things that I think probably from a religious standpoint we make it such a thing and obviously you know if if you're making religious choices

then you should follow your faith but a lot of times you're a perfect example of like it started this way and now I'm not even sure why I am but I think I should still make it special and blah blah blah and it's like okay anyway I digress as far as like this guy listen for one you're not as an inexperienced as you you you if

is like our little juicy headline suggests like you know and me maybe you didn't call it a boyfriend but you had some kind of relationship that for you felt like a relationship and so that matters and that's experience and yeah I think the reason why I asked like what's his experience like the only reason this ever becomes a problem is if it feels like one person is more like

training the other person how to be in a relationship yeah but and I don't feel that way off the bat um so I guess like that's a good point to bring up because it hasn't felt that way does he know you're a virgin so at first no and then it was kind of like a weight on my shoulders for reason and I just knew that if I like said something I think I would feel better and so I did mention it to him and I did that because in my last relationship um once that like was like mentioned and the response was like really positive from it it's like less scary to say and I'm not like trying to hide it I just it's not something I lead with I don't think it's the most important thing about me or the relationship.

So. I agree. I don't think, I mean, so. Also, I don't think you need to mention it. I know. I thought about not because I don't think anything would have changed. Yeah. There's this something that like a lot of virgins do, which just feels like they, it's like their responsibility to let their partner know they're a virgin as if they like have an STD.

And like, it's not the, definitely not the same. It's quite, like literally the opposite. You know, it's just like you're, no, if you guys have a

conversation about, you know, your history and, you know, it would be weird to lie. But I don't think you unsolicited have to be like, just so you know,

before we get started, I'm a virgin. Like, you would be required to if you had an STD. Other than like, all right, I'm in a relationship.

What do you, You know, what are you most worried about? I also have never introduced anyone to my parents, and that's kind of the major point number two that I feel like is almost more scary than the sexual side of things. Because of your parents or because of whatever pressure you've put on it? Just because I feel like it's the pressure I put on it, and I have a really good relationship with my parents.

And so a lot of times it is just like me and them. And I have older siblings, and one of them's married. and one of them is actually divorced. So like we've gone through like the whole range of things in my family. But for me, it's always just kind of been me and them. And I think it will be just like, I don't know. I feel like there's so many different paths that could go.

Like I think they'll be excited for me, obviously. But then it's like I remember on my last relationship when I told people about him, when I had to tell people how badly it went after. it was like really embarrassing for me. So I'm like, I don't know. I think I'm trying to protect that as long as I can. Wait, wait. So back up, what went badly?

My like previous. Bling. Relationship. What was the problem there? I just felt like really embarrassed telling the people that did know about it, kind of what happened. Which was what? It just ended.

Yeah. It ended and like just like it was very short. And I think I maybe like got too excited quickly. But to be fair, like, and what I always was telling people back then was like, I just wish I had more of it like through text so that like people knew like what he was saying to me. He was kind of like now in hindsight, I don't know, like love bombing me a little bit. And so like I got really excited about this like specific person.

Why are you so fixated on that? Like, do you think you're delusional or something? No, I actually think I'm pretty level-headed. Do you think your parents think? you think you're delusional? No. Do you think your friends think you're delusional? No.

I mean, outside of you guys, yeah. But like, you know, I don't know, like listen to the show. It's hard to figure out whether people like you. And even when people like you, they change their mind and in a world of what feels like unlimited searching options, you know, it's, you know, things change. So I guess my advice to you is like to chill out a little bit when it comes to expectations and boundaries, right? We talk them all the time. Know your boundaries. I think you should, I think you might have a bad habit as an inexperienced person to replace inexperience,

what you think is a list of expectations you think need to happen or you need to do or moments that, you know, you make bigger than they are. So I think it's good to know your boundaries, you know, obviously your boundaries around physical intimacy and how you want someone to treat you for sure. I strongly believe that the whole like introducing someone to your parents is wildly overblown in most cases. If your parents are hardcore people and they make it a big deal, then I guess that could be a big deal.

You know, if your parents are the type of people who, you know, limit other people's access to them and are very hard on their kids' partners and yada, yada, yada, then that's definitely something potentially gets stressed out about. But if your parents are just, you're running the mill, like, you know,

kind, good people. Like, have you introduced people to your parents before? Like anyone? Like human beings? Yeah, yeah.

Right. How did that go? Pretty chill? Yeah, they're chill. They're very welcoming. They like to host. For sure.

Have you introduced your parents to friends and throughout your life that people, for whatever reason, you just kind of like stop, you know, you kind of like, lost touch with friends that, you know, that have met your parents in the past?

Yeah, probably. Yeah. Are your parents holding that over your head? No, they're really not. Like, I can't believe you introduced them to me and why don't talk to them anymore. Like, how could you? Yeah, no, they're very like, now that you put it that way, like, they're in their own little world a lot of the time.

So they aren't really asking me a lot of follow-up questions about people. They don't even care. I'm just saying, like, it's. It's like this thing about dating we made such a big thing of. And certainly we all want our parents to like, you know, like the people we date. But it's not like a, it's not a ceremony, you know. It's not, it doesn't have to be like losing your virginity. It's just, even more so than losing your virginity.

It does not, it's not a moment. People act like you can only introduce your parents to so many partners. And you need to know if they're the, like, you know, again, if your parent, if you have type of parents be like, don't introduce me to people unless I say, no, you know you're going to marry them. Like, oh, sure, right? But unless your parents try to set that boundary with you, we have a habit of like making it way bigger of a deal than it needs to be. Yeah.

If your parents are around and he is around and there's an opportunity to meet them, meet them. Don't put unnecessary expectations on you or him or the relationship. I think meeting the parents would be a great step one for that. Like, this is not something you need to psych yourself out about or psych him about you just you don't have to make it a thing it just you know I don't know like do you want me my parents this weekend I'm going to do this thing and they're going to be there and you know but if you can't you know it's fine and you know if eventually like it's that feels like

he's avoiding me and your parents then like I don't think he's avoiding it he's told his parents and his family so told him that what he medically likes yeah great awesome that's meaningful who the people we like who who they tell in their life is a great is a great barometer for their interest in us the fact that he is telling people is a good sign yeah it caught me off guard at first he like texted me he's like I just told my parents about you and I was not expecting him to say that but um I guess like when I'm learning from this conversation is that like not everything has to be like thought out in advance no definitely not how to navigate this relationship because it's your first is no

different than how, I guess, in general, you should, you know, don't psych yourself out. And just as long as you want to date this guy, make sure you guys are on the same page and try to find ways to connect and do things together. And hopefully that's generally mutual. Find out points of compatibility. You know, what do you guys like to do together? Things like that. But how old is he? He is 26. Okay. You're 28? Yeah. Is there any other things that? you're worried about that like have been on your mind that we could talk through. I guess I just feel

like for some reason I can't get this previous relationship out of my head and I like catch myself and I think that's like frustrating me too. So it was like a year ago but um we did like reconnect a little bit. And then in the fall, last fall, and then we actually were talking up until, like, basically I met this new guy. So you reconnected last fall and you kept in somewhat consistent contact up until you met this new guy. And who reached back out? He reached back out? A little bit of both, I think, because we would... Who broke the ice? So initially, like, I was like, I kind of ended it. And then a few months went by. Yes, I ended it because it was just a mess.

I felt like it, well, for one, it was long distance. And he reassured me a ton that it was fine and that he planned to move back to the area that I'm in. And so I was like, okay, fine. I'll like, I'll buy into that. And then I felt like a big shift. And I tried to like chill out and like have him chill out and, like, have him chill out and whatever, but then it got to a point where it was like, this isn't even anything. So like, I'm not going to keep putting in this effort to not get anything in response back.

So then it ended. And then a few months later, I was actually in the state that he lived in. And he reached out and was like, you're here. And I was like, yeah, pretty sure you knew that already. And so then we kind of like were texting off and on for a long time. time, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure, like, right as around the time I was meeting this new guy or kind of like, because we matched on a Dane profile, he again told me that like it wouldn't work. And then because of the distance and then I'm now pretty sure that he is back in my state. So I was like, this door needs to shut. I just feel like I'm playing a little bit of like a comparison game, knowing that this new guy is definitely way better.

But like, yeah, still having thoughts every now. What's the thing about the old guy that's making you miss him? I think it was like how reassuring he was at the start. And also like he was very like complimentative. And I mean, we talked hours at a time. And with this other guy, we text a little bit more. And we've like FaceTimed. he lives like an hour away from me so i don't know if you consider that kind of a mid-distance or not

or if that's practically close um but yeah just like a lot less communication i would say how new is it i've been talking to this new guy since february do you want to be his girlfriend yeah i do i don't know i mean i think as far as the other guy I don't think what your experiences is experiencing is too unfamiliar or too abnormal. I agree. You know, I mean, I don't know if I have the best advice for you on, you know, just stop thinking about it. But I guess what I'm saying is it's like, the more you lean into this new guide and get

to know them, you know, the more you will catch feelings and the more you will build that connection, you know, it's still relatively new and you're figuring each other out. long distance relationships have their challenges, but some of the benefits are, is it forces you to connect on a more conversational level. You can't hang out. You can't just sit and look at each other and make out or get physical, have awkward silence. You have to talk. And that does help people bond quicker. And it's fun to do sometimes. There's a little bit of freedom in how you talk because there's that disconnect of distance and things like that. And that just kind of comes from what long distance offers.

So I guess what I'm saying is like, I think that is more of a product of the situation you were in than necessarily reflecting on who this guy was. What this guy was is a little wishy-washy. He wasn't that far. He knew he was going to come back. And I think, you know, ultimately, if he wanted to make it work, he would.

And so the fact that he is in town now, I don't think it means too much. And if things that work out with this other guy, and if he's still in town, you could always like circle back and double click on that first guy. From what you tell me, it sounds like more, again,

a product of how you were forced to communicate and the benefits that came from that, which is like, you know, longer conversations. And it just encouraged him to open up and both of you guys to open up a little bit more. Where this new relationship kind of started off on you guys,

you know, more traditional meeting up for dates, hanging out and neither of her feeling like, okay well I guess you know hey do you want to talk on the phone all that you know but as things evolve you can find ways to

try to have those type of conversations with them you might find out he's not much of a conversationalist at first but try not to do the compare a thing you know it sounds like this is an exciting new guy and um yeah my biggest advice to you is if you're ever thinking something like it

it should be this way chances are it doesn't have to be that way chances are especially early on there's no real defining moment in the relationships you know like like meeting the parents or things like that and even your first time you have sex like I know for you if you do it obviously that will certainly be memorable but it doesn't have to be special and it usually ends up being forgettable unless you marry the guy

but you know even then it definitely and I hope it's not the best sex you'll ever have with that person. So try not to stress yourself out about things that will end up being distant memories or, you know, and things like that. And just try to have some fun. And you also just not as any inexperiences you let on. I think you have some experience with, and by experience, I mean, just like talking to men and opening up to men. Yeah. Having them open up to you, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. I agree. Anything else? I don't think so. Okay. Well, congrats on the new relationship. I would, yeah, I would, next step for you, my advice is kind of in a very kind of playful joking way, it couldn't help but notice you referring to me as your girlfriend. So I,

okay. And then you maybe, I don't know if it's true or not, you could say, I guess I can, it's, I'm cool to like start referring to you as my boyfriend. Great. Love it. You know, like it's just very playful. I think he'll respond to that well. So try not to make everything so heavy early on is my biggest advice to you. Yeah. I'm aware. I can do that sometimes. We all can, but especially for first, first time and experiences. Well, thank you. I appreciate your time.

I'm a big fan of your show. Appreciate you. Thanks for listening. Good luck. Take it easy on yourself, you know, like, you know, no matter how this goes, this is a fun, you know, like, you know, have some fun. Yeah, okay. Okay.

All right. Thank you. Take care. All right. Bye. How's it going? Hey, this is Michelle. I am 34.

and I'm in a heteronormative relationship. I think I might be gay, but I'm wondering how much that really, truly matters. Well, okay, I don't know. I don't know how much I'll help I'll be. I don't know, but I'm going to try to help. When you say, how much do you think that matters? What do you mean?

I just mean, okay, so my boyfriend is a perfect, precious, sweet angel. Right. We've been together about six months, which I realize is not that long, but this is my first relationship in like five years. So it feels pretty significant. Okay. And we have so many of the same, like, interests and hobbies and, you know, mindsets. He just met my dad for Father's Day last weekend, and they just, like, hit it off like I knew they would.

And I guess I just feel like there's a cost to. everything in life. Couldn't agree more. And, but I mean, some, some, some, some more costly than others, you know. Sure. You know, I live in the south and I'm in, you know, a major metropolitan city. So, of course, there's like all different walks of life. But it's, you know, not maybe quite as accepted to be out as it would be in, you know, say L.A. And, you know, I guess I'm just wondering, I mean, it's, it's kind of, it's multi-layered because I also have bipolar disorder and like the last, you know, six

months being with him, I really truly am like the most stable I've ever been. And he's such a rock in my life. I guess I'm just wondering like what, you know, what are the repercussions of me, you know,

maybe not living an authentic life. Okay. Well, Yeah, a lot of layers here. When you say you think you're gay, what do you mean by that? Like, are you, like, turned off by naked men? Or are you, like, have you been attracted to men and enjoy sex with men, but you realize that you also might, like, bisexual in a way? Or have you, like, and how long have you thought this?

Like, how certain are you? Like, where are you on your, like, you know? Yeah. So the interesting thing about my relationship is that we've really, do not have sex very often. Like the last time was probably about six weeks ago. And it was because I initiated it and it was sort of like, you know, I wanted that for him because he was having a really stressful week at work and was expressing to me that he might not

be able to see me quite as often. You know, in a way, if I am gay, this would be a great heterosexual relationship to be in because no, I'm not like terribly turned on by my boyfriend. I'm not repulsed by him either. I would say in general, when he touches me, I don't really feel much of anything.

Okay. But forgetting about your relationship with him for now, and put that aside. Just like when you say, I think I'm gay. Yeah. Do you mean like inside,

I feel like you have a pretty, you have a gut feeling of that answer? Are you realizing you're just not attracted to men? Or are you realizing you're also attracted to women? Yeah, I guess my question to you, is it possible to like evolve sexually to where like at one point, like, I mean, maybe you're a straight male, so maybe you're not the authority on this. But is it possible that like I, you know, used to be attracted to men, but now I'm more attracted to men? Listen, I imagine anything's possible.

I want to be careful not to say the wrong. wrong thing in the sense that like so much of my understanding of the gay friends that I have and the and quite frankly like the fight that people in the LGBT community or specifically like lesbian and gay people back in the day when they were like fighting for for rights was you know the idea that like they were born gay they weren't like the conversion therapy and things like that that so many like hardcore Christians would make young gay people do to try to change them and with the idea that they could be changed and there was something, you know, is, you know, that that's my understanding, you know, and so when you ask that question, that was the first thing that popped in my mind,

that like, I guess anything's possible, but does that contradict what so many gay people have been, you know, the fighting for, which is to respect that, like, they're, you know, this is how, you know, God or whoever made us made us, and they're not, they don't need to be changed, so to speak. But at the same time, you know, again, I'm no expert on sexuality. You know, like sexual appetites change for sure, right? Like, you know, you can, you can evolve. But so I don't, I don't answer it.

Anything's possible, but I don't know. But you sound genuinely kind of unsure. Yeah, I guess I'm, Oh, my mom might listen to this, but I mean, when I masturbate, it's to like photos of women. Okay. So I feel like that is somewhat. It's a pretty good sign. You might, yeah.

You fantasize more about women or when you're walking the streets of whatever, you're, you know, who do you check out more? Like, who, like, you know, I know what turns me on, you know? Like, do you know what turns you on? Kind of, yeah. Without labeling it, you know, gay or street? It's interesting because like I like pined for like 10 years over the guy who I lost my virginity too. Very, very unhealthy. So like there was like obviously like a real emotional attachment there that I think was cemented when we did have sex.

But yeah, I think it's just kind of hard for me to delineate what's like worth. it and what's not because like I know that you know my boyfriend fits into my life so well and I know that he's really like helped me in so many different ways and there's obviously like benefits of like just being in a relationship in general and then like apart from that like he's just a really amazing partner have you talked about your sexuality with any gay friends no I mean I don't really have any gay friends anymore. I have, there's one person who, like, I could get in touch with who, you know, I used to be close with. Mm, okay. Yeah. That might be, I don't know. Would that be weird? No, I mean, I think, I think he would like, you know, like this person in particular,

like grew up a Mormon and really had to fight for his authenticity in life. Okay. So I think Well, if you would be comfortable reaching out, yeah, if you would be comfortable reaching out, yeah, if you'd be comfortable reaching out and you don't feel like it would be you know I have no perspective on what it's like to be confused about my sexuality outside of like being in middle school when I was bullied and called gay and I was like I maybe I am you know but that was more about being bullying than confused about my sexuality so I really can't it's hard it's very difficult for me to to speak on some of those questions about how you are internalizing your feelings and what it means for you but I imagine many, most gay people have had to have, you know, have had to come out.

You know, certainly people in the South and people who are older had to do that at a very difficult, at an end of, you know, a time where, you know, like you said, like in 2026, if you live in like New York and L.A., you know. Whatever, yeah. For some people, but for a lot of other, you know, gay people that had to come out, that was a real struggle. And then there's a lot, there were so many layers of questions and fears and concerns and things like that. And I imagine someone like who had, has gone through that would be very helpful to you answering some questions that I wouldn't be in a position to answer probably. As far as like, you know, let's assume for for now you're gay. And you're attracted to women.

And you are now like the question you're kind of posing is like, well, you know, maybe so, but I really like this guy. He's really nice and he's been good for my mental health. And, like, you know, like, have you talked to him about your thoughts and feelings about your sexuality? No. So when, of course, like, we met on a dating app and, like, at the time that I matched with him, I had been, you know, kind of messing around with labels in terms of what to label my sexual. quality as. And I am quite certain at the time that we matched, I listed myself as Bicurious.

Okay. But we've never, we've never discussed that. That would be, I mean, step one would be, he deserves to have a conversation with you and know where he stands because, you know, if you are gay and you guys, and again, I don't know if this is good, you know, like, I don't know if I imagine someone in the gay community, but again, have a better answer for you on like, yeah, I try that. You know, let me tell you why that won't work or why it would work. I don't, you know, I don't.

But I feel like I could safely say that it's, it's, he, he needs to be a part of that decision, you know, because to your point, like, like you said, everything has a cost, right? So there is a, there would be a cost to being in a relationship to someone who isn't attracted to you. And he might want to be with someone who makes him feel more desired. Maybe not.

I don't know. Maybe you're both just like not that sexual of people. And physical intimacy isn't a huge part of your relationship regardless of who you relationship with. And maybe so much. But, you know, that would be unique. But I suppose it's possible. But he would have to be a part of that.

I don't think you get to decide that for the both of you. Yeah, that's fair. I'm not looking forward to that. But it also sounds like you have some stuff to figure out before you have that conversation. Yeah. But I, you know, I was like, okay, so you said, let's say, you put a Bicarious in your bio and he didn't mention it when you went on a date and you're not 100% it was there, but let's assume it was there. I imagine his questions, like if I'm him, right, like, you know, I'm him and I met someone on the day, I said, buy curious,

and maybe I was like, all right, well, I just took it at face value, and then we went on a date and did you like to me and whatever. I mean,

I will say, like, if he's, maybe he's super polite, but if he's wondering why you guys have sex so infrequently, that might be crossing his mind.

If you bring it up to him, he's probably going to be like, so are you gay or are you by? You know, are you attracted to me? Like, the questions I had, like,

how much are you not? attracted to me was probably will probably be as big as question, you know. Yeah, I feel like the reason we don't have sex more is kind of related to the fact that like I have sexual trauma and he doesn't really know the extent of it because I think he just wants to like protect my privacy. But I think he's kind of like, well, where does that leave me? And then also we like to, you know, do things out. we golf a lot. We, you know, we just have other hobbies. Have you sought any therapy or counseling for this trauma that you've experienced?

I have. I'd like to pursue like EMDR because that's not something. I've just been bounced around from different therapists. I've been in therapy like my whole life. But that's not something my current therapist offers. Yeah, I do think there's more processing that needs to happen there. Yeah, I mean, and do you think, do you think that has played a role and how your feelings about your sexuality? Potentially, I think, you know, like some people who are probably very ignorant think that like being gay is a response to sexual trauma.

Yeah, and that's definitely what I'm saying. cut and dry. Yeah, that's in the death, to be clear, not what I'm suggesting. I'm just talking about right. You seem, you're just acknowledging you're confused, right? And I'm, you know, you're like, you're not, you're not, I'm asking some questions. You don't have answers. You, you're like, you know, I masturbate, I've masturbated to women, you know, you put by curious, not, you know, like you're just, you have questions about your sexuality, you know, um, and yeah, I don't know. But I'm just wondering if that's playing a role into your, what is causing the confusion that you're having,

not necessarily causing the feelings that you have. Yeah, potentially. I think the hard part is like I probably am more sexually attracted to women, but I like the comfort and protection of being with a man. Okay. And yeah, it feels like, I'm kind of damned if I do and damned if I don't. And given that societally, it's more accepted to just, you know, call yourself straight.

I think that's what I'm grappling with is like what would be the cost, like I mentioned, of, you know, ending this relationship or, you know, something along those lines. outside of this I mean do you do you think you're both happy with each other right now do you feel is this are you more confused about your sexuality and then and then it's becoming a harder and harder question to ignore or is this a response to what you feel is like yeah relationship's good he's great I love him but like you're realizing that it's it's adding you know some stress to the relationship that you're realizing you're going to have to face sooner than later yeah so when I wrote in which was probably about five weeks ago, I was in total despair about this situation. Like,

I thought I was going to have to break up with him like lickety split because I had this like a weakening. I can't really tell you what, but something has like shifted since then where like it just feels a little bit more level. And, you know, I kind of set a deadline to break up with him before I met my dad and I that time has you know gone and passed but yeah I think like generally we are pretty happy with one another um I mean he's like I said he's just like a wonderful partner and how old is he he's 38 what are your do you guys talk about a future we have and we haven't um you know like several months ago he mentioned moving in and those conversations have kind of quieted.

You know, I told him that I don't think that I'll ever really be ready to have kids. And that is, that topic is a bit fluid for him. I think he would prefer to have kids, but like he still feels like his life would be fulfilled if he didn't. So, yeah, we have talked about a future to. some degree, but, like, I have this friend that I feel like you would really hit it off with. And I know that's ridiculous. But, like, when I'm thinking about him more than myself, I'm just like, I want you to be so

happy. I want you to get everything that you want. Yeah. And maybe that isn't me. I mean, as far as the kids thing, goodness, this is just my opinion. I think you definitely be wrong. I think that people who are more, who are fluid about kids who are like, I think I would want to have kids, but I think I could find fulfillment outside of it,

tend to end up if they don't have kids wishing at some point that they would have. That he's still young enough to like, again, just be able to find that fulfillment with doing all the exciting things. that people in the 30s in 2026 often do and travel and things like that and there's probably enough of people that he's friends with in his space that are also like you know maybe some of his friends are having kids but a lot of you know some people aren't and even if all is you know like when all my friends are having kids I just made new friends type of thing which at in your 30s it's not that difficult to do but when you get to be 40 and 50 and and and you start you know get to the age where you're reflecting on your life and your choices um that's usually when that

shit hits and I've never met a person who was on the fence about having kids and had kids and not be like oh my god why was I ever on the fence so something to think about you you know you seem pretty like you know you don't it's not something you're that's for you um and so maybe I mean I always thought it would be but I I don't know that my certain yeah I don't know that my nervous system is regulated for having kids okay what do you mean by that just out of curiosity is that like a medical advice you received or is that just like your own opinion it's more like introspection like i used like in my 20s i thought i would have you know i wrote in my diary at one point i wanted to have three kids now it's like incomprehensible congrats by the way um but um you know the idea of being

needed 24-7 i just don't know if i'm built for that it's it's more like the infant stage that worries me the most. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. You might be surprised, you know. I just think when it comes to, like, parenthood, it's one of those things that you, like, you know,

I'm about to embark on obviously two twin girls and not, you don't get me wrong, it's intimidating. Nellie and I were talking about this. I don't remember, like, I was pretty active in the whole, like, nighttime feeding thing that we did together. And I don't have any recollections of being tired. You know, I, I like need,

like nine hours a night. Oh, no, and I need my sleep. I'm just saying, like, I, I, I, I remember people telling me I was tired. I'm sure I was tired. My point is, all I remember is being able, like, being a dad and, and I remember SWAT. Like, I, that is not what I remember, you know. I'm not saying I wasn't. I'm, I'm sure I was.

I, you know, and I do remember a lot of people telling me I looked tired. But I guess what I'm saying is that wasn't the. response that my nervous system experienced and remembered. And I think that's the power of becoming a parent. And yes, there is a cost. And yes, it is hard. And yes, it's a lot. But there's some intangible things that have a way of making up for it.

And I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm just sharing my perspective in response to what you're saying. But I do think a lot of people find themselves to be surprised by how, much they enjoyed it outside of all the things that the world tells them of why parenting is hard and why it might not be for them and yada yada yada but if it's not for you it's not something i want to convince anyone of doing um not all being said uh listen i i i i parenting outside for um it sounds it sounds like you're confused about your sexuality and it's but it sounds i might I don't know.

Like, I think you, knowing that you, like, you know, are, you're more physically attracted to women

is obviously significant. And I think maybe, you know, talking to someone who's at least lived somewhat of an experience like this would be helpful to you. At some point,

if you stay with them, you're going to have to talk to them about this. And I think that that sounds fair to me. because I want I want him to have a say and I want him to know what he's working with.

How did you, I'm just curious, how did, how did, you know, when you said you wrote in, what, what change that went from things feeling like a catastrophe to, like now, you sound like someone who's like, you know, you sound confused about your sexuality,

but not that confused. Or if I had to guess, and it's just a guess, by what you're telling me, me, it sounds like you might be gay. It also sounds like you would like to stay with this guy if you could somehow, as impractical as you realize it might be, you would like to stay in this relationship. And that, like, so which is interesting because you, you know, I believe you sound convincing of both, you know, which is just kind of interesting. You don't sound like, you know.

I'm a very, like, metaphysical person and I really can't give a. straight answer. I mean, I was, I was like on the phone with my friend, like, sobbing. And I think I was, I was probably angry with God more than anything else because I'm like, how is it that you could make me fucking bipolar and gay? That's just, like, just really, really unfair. You know, I just felt like they haven't. As far as the unfairness,

with being gay, is it just because of the social stigma, especially in the South that you're referring to? Yeah, it's, it's all the things. It's, you know, like walking down on the street and, you know, holding hands with someone who, you know, it's, it's also like, I don't know if I'm an asshole for thinking about this, but like men make more money than women do. Like, it's about like kind of like bargaining power

in the world. There's just a lot of things. And then, you know, my family, my extended family, they live in the Midwest, and they're, you know, very conservative. And it's just like my boyfriend fit into my life so well. Like my dad and him worked for the same corporation. They're both sales guys. You know, they just really have a lot in common. And I think there's always that parent that we love to get approval from. And for me, that person is my dad. And it's hard to reject that. You don't think he would approve?

He would approve to a certain degree, but he would be... You feel like he'd have to accept it rather than approve of it. Yeah, it just wouldn't fit it quite as nicely. You know? Nothing does. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I just... I mean, when I wrote in, I really thought, like, I was going to go off the deep end. Like, I've, you know, I'm on drugs. I'm in therapy. Like, I'm doing all the things to better myself. I work out.

I, you know, I'm a high maintenance individual, but I meet my needs where they are. And I, I mean, I was, I was at the point where I was, like, suicidal about breaking up with him. And that was that in any way. and again, forgive me for my ignorance, but was there any type of, were you having a, like, a bipolar episode? Or is that not? I don't really have episodes anymore,

since I'm, you know, pretty well regulated on my meds. So this was just your run-of-the-mill, you know, just confused and not, you know, just torn between two very difficult decisions or in confusion about your sexuality. Yes, correct. I think I was having an identity crisis. I wish I could be more helpful here.

I don't, I feel like, I'm passing the buck, but I don't want to speak on things that could be wrong, but I feel confident saying at some point you're going to have to talk to your boyfriend about it. Yeah. And I feel good about the advice of talking to someone who has experienced the challenge of coming out of the closet. And I bet they could be helpful finding, helping you find some answers about your sexuality and how you should look at it.

And you will probably be able to relate to them in ways I can't relate to you. Anything's, you know, as far as relationships, anything's possible, you know, I, but it does have to be a mutual decision. Like, just one more question. Like, the idea of hooking them up with your friend, does that make you, like, that's interesting. I would never, I would never think that, I've never thought that about any woman I've ever dated. I mean, I think, again, I'm just, I'm self-aware enough to know that, like, I lack certain qualities. and I just see a real light in this friend of mine. And I don't know.

I mean, I could be wrong. There could be... Are you a writer? Yes, I love to journal. I've done that my whole life. I don't know. This could be like a fun rom-com. You need to figure out...

You need to figure out your happy ending, but like... Yeah. You know, you're bipolar. You're confused about your sexuality. You're dating this night. guy, but you love your friend and you set them up and they fall in love and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But, like, you do need a happy ending, but maybe there's like a rom-com there or something. Yeah, I mean, I definitely am not loving what I'm doing for work right now. So there could be, there could be something to that. Well, hopefully this is at least slightly helpful. I wish I could have been more helpful. No, I think you were. I think, I mean, I don't know what I was expecting, but I never would have thought to reached out to, you know, this old friend of mine. So that could be a good idea. And I think it's,

it's good to know that like the fair thing would be to bring this up to my boyfriend that, you know, whatever, at whatever point, I'm like stable enough to do so. Yeah. I mean, I want, like, I really want to honor his time and not wait. it but like there is that like selfish part that kind of has to think about like yeah my ability to you know potentially disrupt my life at a time where yeah I don't think uh careers like not up in there and I don't think you need a rush to tell him I mean like I don't I wouldn't wait that long I if I would prioritize talking looking up the old friend and and and getting them getting some perspective from someone who's gone through that journey of coming out of the closet

over telling him about because right now it sounds like he would have a lot of questions to answer to you don't have and that might be a challenge for the both of you so but it's sooner than later i would i would bring this up all right we'll do well thank you i you know if you ever have an update i'd love an update i would i would be curious how your journey unfold so Yes, absolutely. I will stay in touch. And, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe people listening. I'm sure people listening will have some opinions, but you probably shouldn't. Where would I listen to them? Just in the comments on like iTunes?

Well, we have a much, much, much, much, much larger audience for this show on audio. But our YouTube audience is much smaller for this. But they are in those comments. Okay. Well, that's interesting. What I love about your show so much is that I'm able to see myself in your viewers. Sure. And it really kind of illuminates my own behavior. Listen, for anyone listening, I wish there was healthy discourse in the YouTube comment.

So if anyone wants to start that, by all means. All right. Well, I love YouTube. So maybe I'll start a revolution. Okay. All right. Yeah. By all means.

Good luck out there. I appreciate the call. I hope this was helpful. I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but, you know, again, you see, you have a good demeanor about you. And give yourself some grace,

I guess, more than anything. You're just, you know, just figuring yourself out. It doesn't sound like you're hurting anyone in the process, you know. And he might, you know, your boyfriend might, you know,

if things don't work out, literally, I mean, like, it sounds like you'd probably be like, well, I have a friend. Yeah. Do you think he would be in there? I would, I think they would get along.

I mean, she is just such a ray of sunshine. And then my boyfriend is too. I mean, I don't know. I'm kind of curious, like, if we're still together, like, in a couple months when my birthday rolls around, like, I would be keen to maybe do like a dinner and just like see if they interact. I'm sorry as I didn't ask this. Have you ever been with a woman? No. So the week before I met my boyfriend, I went out on a date with a woman, and this was my first time ever.

And I totally got catfish. She looked way different than her photos. And my thought afterwards was maybe I'll just stick to men. Said no women ever, you know. Well, I mean, it's just like. Usually it's the opposite. I'm just kidding. Usually it's us guys who get the bad rep.

But I appreciate her for evening the playing field. That's funny, though. Yeah, I don't know. And it's just like even, I mean, I'm not like 100% tied to my city. But there is a gay population. But I'm just kind of like, I break up with Matt. Like, what's out there for me? I mean, I kind of looked around and like there are like some options.

Well, I mean, if you, if you end up coming to, you know, to the realization that you are, in fact, gay, and you start dating women, it's literally everything's out there for you. You haven't, you really haven't experienced what it's like to date women. I certainly wouldn't allow one, one, one, one, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on, one, on probably be a learning process. of what, in addition to talking to a gay man, I would probably talk to a gay woman about like the differences of dating men versus dating women. I imagine it's very different. Yeah. And it sounds like, you know, I don't want to speak on it because it's not my place, but from what I gather, there is some differences you might want to get a heads up on how that is. Yeah, too bad Becca Tilly doesn't have a colon podcast. He would be. Yeah. The perfect person.

She probably, yeah. Yeah, she probably would be. She probably would be. I'll see if I can get some fan mail going. All right. Thanks for the call. You're going to figure this out. You're going to be okay. Thank you, Nick. I appreciate you and I love the show. All right. Thanks for listening. I appreciate you. All right. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye.